Stretching America
The Obama years will stretch America. The nation will come to think differently about itself. But Barack Obama is too focused and too, well, too midwestern in outlook, to really stick it to the right. He will govern from the centre and relish the battles with his own party that that will entail. He will do it because he will feel it to be right but also, of course, because that is the way to be re-elected in 2012, overcoming the fearsome challenge of Sarah Palin. This is an early stab at the immediate future though I thought (looking at the names for Sec of State et al) that there were to be no re-treads? John D's list looks a little too stodgy, I suspect...
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Sarah Palin is a non-starter. Not in a hundred years can she be a threat to Obama.
Her road to the presidency just got narrower.
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Sarah Palin was the logical heir of the distasteful Bush tradition .. and that too has been defeated today
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Sorry to disappoint but Palin's future is assured. She can whip up a crowd of "Joes" into a frenzy and she has all the right rhetoric about the "real" America, gays, Liberals, the bible (rightist version), and all those things that sound so outrageous to people capable of critical thought.
We'll have to listen to that nasal voice for years to come - unless the moose learn to return fire.
Thank you, John McCain.
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he was being sarcastic about palin.at least i hope he was.
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Republicans, please make Sarah your 2012 nominee. She is intelligent, knowledgable, has a fearsome policy brain, and her social views fit right in with mainstream America.
With her victory in 2012 is certain. For Obama, obviously.
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#3 Nessie,
Ay, there's the rub. If she does then the Republicans become the party of the few, an ever more strident minority.
For our nations sake I hope this does not come to be.
Sad Sam
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G.W.Bush destroyed the budget and the economy and now his party has conveniently let someone else pick-up the pieces. Good luck, Barack, you're in for a tough ride
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#5
APb
Here on earth the results indicate something different.
Earthman Sam
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In many ways this election seems like Britain several years ago. Change was in the air, Obama is bound to disappoint, by how much we shall have to see. Powell for Defence Secretary probably not, possibly National Security Adviser.
Obama will want Republicans on board to counter charges of despotism etc. McCain very gracious in his statement to work together but what else could he say.
The Republicans (like Labour and the Tories after heavy defeats) will become introverted and soul seeking, Palin will rally the right wing nutters, is there such a thing as a moderate Republican wing? Barring some major disaster Obama will be a 2 term President.
Finally where does this leave Hillary? Can she realistically be left out of the Cabinet, yes given the scale of the win (like Labour's in 1997, Blair thought he would need the Lib Dems) he doesn't need her. She could very quickly become yesterday's person.
What would be interesting is to know the political make up of the Dems in the 2 houses will they thwart Obama and if they can have they the nerve.
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Like the aftermath of the landslide conservative defeat at the hands of Tony Blair and New Labour, the Republicans (un)fortunately will, in an effort to redefine itself, lurch further to the right, thus ensuring decades of being cast into the political wilderness. One thing they are sure to do is rally around Palin in order to secure and solidify their so-called base. She will have the most fervent support of the hardcore conservatives that will enable her to rise to the top in the Republican popularity contest. But like what happened to the Conservative Party of UK, they will be unelectable. That's good for Obama since he will have a very easy job of defeating her.
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Well, I'm going to go ahead and predict that Sarah Palin will be president one day. And I predict that she will do it by following the Obama template but on the Republican Party side.
Justin's comment about a dwindling electoral resource absolutely nails what's wrong with the Republicans. She will figure this out, drop the religious mumbo-jumbo, and pull together a centrist coalition of her own. She is too savvy and ambitious not to reinvent herself.
Go ahead and laugh, then look at all the presidents (including the next one) we've had for the last thirty years. With the exception of Bush 41, they were all implausible when they began, and all found their voices as leaders of change movements. The GOP is certainly ripe for that and will certainly be open to whatever ideas she has.
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I think everyone is taking the future of Sarah Palin far too seriously. Let's face it, the Republican party was thrashed tonight, and she was in no small way responsible. Four years from now there will be dozens of reasonable Republican candidates gunning for the nomination... ones that won't have to reinvent themselves as "centrist". She has way too much baggage. The Republican party must learn from their beating tonight... and the lesson is that their old messaging and pandering to the far right will turn off any independents and moderate Republicans. In fact, in many ways Barack Obama has occupied many of the traditional republican traits. It's the fault of the Republican party that they left them open to him, and instead ran to the voters on the far right. (Un)fortunately, there just aren't enough of them left to elect a president anymore.
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Sam (6 & 8)
How was the champagne?
I lost my sparkle just a few minutes ago, reading the last few additions to the previous thread.
I've been looking at the analyses of the voting, and it suggests to me that what the right (through the agency of Palin) has done is entrench and legitimise a division in American society perhaps as deep as there was in the late fifties and early sixties.
And one in which stridency and even hate can become a norm of political discourse.
McCain's concession speech sounded to me almost as though it was an apology for letting himself be dragged into it. But I really do wonder if it might be too late now.
(I am truly horrified by some of the things I've read. Their underlying assumptions make the British National Party and the lePenistes sound almost liberal.)
And as for John Dickerson's article, what a way to fossilise (sabotage?) a new administration from the beginning. An astonishingly naive piece which makes no real practical political sense at all that I can see.
There's been much more sense written in the British newspapers this morning than that.
And now I'm getting out of here before the usual suspects turn up and start assaulting me.
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Let's not forget that Sarah is ...intellectually incurious. Call her philosophy (if you can call that) anti-intellectualism. That is to say that she doesn't like learning, does trivialize knowledge or is simply sort of dense (stupid, I mean). Obviously that sort of quality appeals to simple small town folks who cling to guns and bibles. Fearsome challenge? Only fearsome thing about her possible candidacy is that there still are scarily large number of folks who will follow her religiously.
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What was most impressive to me about Brack Obama was his inclusiveness and his ability to make people feel that they are relevant probably like they have never felt before
and of course a bit sad that we will not see any more 'Bushisms" what a loss
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#11, RalphMa.
Palin a future President? I dont think so.
Look at the "base" that she galvanised: evangelicals, creationists, the loony right. Thinking republicans were horrified and either abstained or voted Obama.
And if you have read anything about this absurd woman you will see that it is impossible for her to reach out across the political spectrum - if you dont agree with her 100% then you must be against her.
Someone who is convinced that the earth was created 4,000BC? That man coexisted with dinosaurs? The reason why she never travelled in the past was that she didnt want to fall off the edge of the planet.
Americans have enough Palins without putting one in the White House. They are called cheerleaders, and you can find them scantily dressed at any sporting event.
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Obama won't stick it to the right? That'll disappoint them. If their bogeyman doesn't bogey, their whole worldview will be threatened, and they'll become paranoid- oh, wait...
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#11
RalphMa
*If* she could lose the anti-everything rhetoric of the Republicans, she'd be electable?
Well, apart from the fact that this is what defines her, that would be a tough sell. In the UK one of our best potential Prime Ministers was William Haig. I've met him, and he's an intellignet, articulate, witting and thoroughly decent man. Unfortunately he was sitting at the head of the Conseravtive Party at the wrong - unelectable - time. The party now is what he was then - inclusive, tolerant, focussed on the economy.
I think Sarah Palin would get thumped in 2012. The country's mood has changed, the zeitgeist has been remodelled, and although she brings vigour, looks, and her gender, she can't get part the fact that she's seen as pro-gun, anti-abortion, anti-intellectual and isolationist. She's also been part of one of the most negative campaigns I've seen.
I have no idea who they'll choose, but cometh the hour, cometh the man.....the Republicans have to go away, lick their wounds, and come up with a positive message. Perhaps "We Can Do Better" should be the 2012 slogan, but I can't see a reworked SP leading that charge.
Mind you, this is American politics; anything can happen!
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fearsome challenge of Sarah Palin??!! I really dont think so. If theres one thing that came out from this is that the bullishness of the Republicans was not appreciated to say the least. And since Palin doesnt seem to be able to behave in any other way than a bull (in a china shop) then I can only see her in the wastelands of alaska.
BTW did anyone see John Bolton on BBC yesterday night ranting away like a 6 year old who's had his sweet box taken away. It was hilarious and I'll be probably remembering his silly, bitter comments for years to come.
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Thanks, Justin, it's been a fantastic voyage.
Well - what's next on the agenda?
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In the spirit of fair play, i had like to congratulate all Obama supporters on this board, even though i still dont believe he is the right person for the job.
Yesterday saw the triumph of emotion over reason. When that happens, the end result is unmet expectations.
The election was a referendum on G W Bush than a contest between Obama and Mcain.
In my view Obama won the election on 3 issues.
1. Obama's votes ( 30% ) - those who believe Obama and support him
2. Anti-Bush votes ( 50% ) - those who rightly or wrongly despise bush and felt this was the right time to stick it to him..
3. yes I can votes ( 20% ) - those who see Obama in their own respective images and are energized by the prospect of them being able to reach that high in America, thus fufilling the american dream.
As for all the pundits predicting a major shift in American politics, i think they will be sorely disappointed. This could end up being a flash in the pan. the prospect of that could however be mitigated by how Obama performs as president.
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I am absolutely thrilled by this election result. The best news I have heard for many years. I'm normally pretty cynical about politicians, but Obama has impressed me, and for now I'm prepared to believe that he really is going to rise to meet the serious challenges that face him.
Oh, and top marks to McCain for an extremely dignified and statesmanlike acceptance speech. Whatever else you might say about McCain (did I mention I'm cynical about politicians?), you certainly can't call him a poor loser.
And as for the threat from Palin, frankly Michael would be far more of a threat than Sarah. Justin, please tell me your comment about her was sarcasm?
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First Justin Obama is not midwestern in hs outlook.
He is a classic liberal (right or wrong ) that is what he is.
As I stated two days ago I hope my fears about his policies are wrong.
But the Democrats from how they handled the last two years in the congress demonstrated that they do not try to work for common goals with the opposition.
I am concerned about:
His foriegn policy
How much more the middle class will pay in taxes
Free Union elections
The Fairness Doctrine
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It's also important to remember that for the next four years and beyond, America will continue to become less white, less Christian, less blue collar, and less rural. And even more important is to remember how the electoral college works and the battleground states. It looks like New York, California, Illinois, and Pennsylvania are Democratic landslide victories. That's 128 votes. Add the tighter, but nonetheless victories, in Florida, Virginia, and Ohio, and that's 60 more.
The conservative Christians can rally the troops all they want in Louisiana and Arkansas, but it won't help them a bit. And their views just don't fly in the battleground states. If the Republicans have any shot in 2012, they'll need someone who can grab a few states in the Northeast and on the West coast, and that isn't Sarah Palin.
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Of course I meant concession speech, not acceptance speech (#22). My joy in this result has clearly affected my typing skills.
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icetayoa, in your breakdown you're missing the people who very seriously considered McCain until he caved in to the far right and chose Sarah Palin. There are a lot of us.
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Sarah Palin will have become embroiled in too many new political scandals about misuse of power to be a runner by then.
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Palin has been portrayed negatively in the press, but their picture is not realistic. She will be a force in future elections, and prove herself far more a centrist than many think.
I'm not sure Obama will do the same. He's far to the left, and if he does not try to move to the center, I doubt he'll have more than four years.
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#21
Ice
In many ways I agree with you. This was entirely an election about Bush and his eight years.
The Republicans did the right thing - pick someone who's seen as non-mainstream, the least Bush-like person they could possibly think of.
And, you know, it came closer than many predicted. It's exaggerated by the electoral college vote, but the popular vote will have been (by the time everything's counted and checked) probably 4% apart.
Had McCain been a bit younger, had Palin been more experienced/more intelligent/less right-wing then it really could have happened.
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Cheers!
This was a magical moment in American History. Truly magnificent! I have a strong sense of calm that the republicans are finally on their way out of the white house. Americans need to unite and it is great that the super conservatives and racists have to look up to a black man. Maybe it will be humbling for them. This man defines what America is, a unique nation of all colors, ethnicities, religions and ideas. For the first time in 8 years, I feel a sense of pride for my country.
As far as Palin goes, Do not worry about this "one". She is going to attempt to stay in the national spotlight but she is the reason the republicans lost by a landslide. She only appealed to a smaller portion of what Americans are. She represents the uneducated religious iron fisted evangelists which populate most of the small towns in America. They do not make a difference as you can see in this election. Palin was despised by many feminists, Clinton supporters, republicans, and most main stream media. The republicans would be foolish to let this lady represent them again.
I do not think Obama is going to be the perfect president either, he has even said this himself. I do trust him to surround himself with the right people that will bring a broad range of views to any situation that comes arise. Be prepared for failure and disappointment because of people's high expectations for this man. However, I still think he is the right fit for America and there's one thing he IS giving America and the world.......Hope! We can endure any bad situation if we all have it. I thank this man for making this world start to believe in it too. Gobama!
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Justin, I don't know if it's too early to thank you for this blog, which has been fascinating reading over the last several months. So, thank you.
From this side of the pond, may I say to our American friends that I believe that your democracy has been re-invigorated by this election.
For what little it is worth, my own opinion is that either candidate would have made a better and more thoughtful President than the 43rd, and let us hope, for your sakes and ours, that your country's extravagant extended process for selecting candidates and electing a President does not in future produce a leader so lacking in intellectual resources as the outgoing incumbent.
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Last night felt like some grand and glorious episode of West Wing. Who knows what tomorrow holds, but at last I feel optimistic about it. Not wishing to trivialize an extraordinary event, but Obama's election means that I can leave behind the resentment I felt about Ken Starr and the Republicans and the obsessive way they went about diminishing the Bill Clinton presidency; can leave behind the resentment of the Hanging Chads eight years ago, and the way the Supreme Court gifted the election to the Republicans; can leave behind the resentment of the attack ads four years ago. We can ignore the Bush hawks and the neocons for the next four years. It makes me feel tremendously warm about America and Americans again. It even makes me admire John McCain; makes me admire him more for having the decency to lose. The whole world feels like a better place.
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Baked Alaska. Her extreme views would never appeal to the nation as a whole who turned out to in record numbers. Even Bush and Rove had to admit it was awesome. Their appeal has depended on voter apathy. Not this time.
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As I write, the price of gold has started moving up again.
I'm keeping my gold ETFs for the next few years while President Obama prints dollars to meet his spending promises.
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Justin must be really upset with the result to think so irrationally as to suggest Palin.
If republican wants to come back they must drop people like palin or at least hide them somewhere. If you notice the young people overwhemingly chose Obama. And this is also true for young people that will be voting next election. So Extreme right will have lesser and lesser support in the future.
The republican need to be more centre while not upsetting the the bible belt. And there is no way, Palin can manage this.
Thank god that Obama is elected. My life will be much easier without the wars and the hated toward america.
However, those that truely hate america, must be really unhappy as there goes their recruit solgan.
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The success of Barack Obama as President elect marks a watershed of hope for the dawn of a new era around the world and this really is a momentous time for the future world order.
Following the divisive Bush/Blair years, Obama has a mountain to climb, but he clearly has the makings of a true statesman, which is sorely lacking in our current generation of Politicians in every continent.
Tremendous damage has been done around the world due to the Bush/Blair crusades of division and while Obama has a lot of friends from all countries who wish him well at this historic time for humanity he also needs to make sure that not only the USA but other countries adopt an ethical policy to our global society.
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Sorry No.4. I don't think our Justin was being
sarcastic or ironic. I think he was suffering a
delusion brought on by sleep deprivation, unless he was just trying to provoke his faithful
readers into enough protest to keep
his column alive. Best find another subject Justin. The only place for Palin is beyond the pale in the frozen North.
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Yeah, because we all know those liberals will tax and spend us to death! Good thing we have that big budget surplus from 8 years of Republican leadership... oh, wait. I deeply wish the Republican party had remained fiscally conservative. For Obama to outspend W he's going to have to try pretty damn hard.
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Congratulations USA from downunder.
Late last year we relieved ourselves of ten years of conservative government.
Believe me, the feeling of relief and freedom was amazing.
Best wishes and good luck finally moving forward.
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Hi Sam, British, Candace and all
I keep on wandering around singing "Oh What a Night .... "
I don't know who was crying the most - me or Jesse Jackson.
Eighty
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Without wanting to sound patronising, I'd like to thank Americans for taking a big step and doing the right thing. Hopefully the new president will help the world come together a bit more instead of being driven apart by reckless hatred.
As for Palin, the hopefully some Alaskan grizzly will do its patriotic duty and get its own back. Though I'm not sure she'd be very palatable.
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#31
what i mean is that the dislike of Bush by so many voters must have been so intense as to becloud their judgement.
You dont honestly believe that Obama had it in him to defeat Mcain, if the negative G W Bush consideration was taken out of the equation.
GW Bush consideration was the elephant in the room for Mcain.
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I think Sarah Palin choice as running mate was MacCain's biggest mistake. His concession speech brings out the difference in attitude between the two of them.
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re:16 Pluto61 wrote:
"Americans have enough Palins without putting one in the White House. They are called cheerleaders, and you can find them scantily dressed at any sporting event."
Well GWB got elected twice and, if anything, his `inarticulationability' has even `less satisficationality' than Palin. Actually, you can just imagine GWB as one of those male cheerleaders at a US college football match. So, sadly, I can see a possibility of bad circumstances that, giving Obama a rough patch, could guide Palin up Pennsylvania *Ave.* as well as the electoral college votes of the state etc.
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I have just read the full text of Obama's speech. I listened as he gave it, but wanted to read it in the cold light of day.
What a brilliant speech!
Now let us hope he can live up to half of what he said.
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Absolute joy at last night's result. It is significant that the only demographic group which the fossil republicans got a majority of was the over 65s. America has changed. The symbolism of the moment is immense and far outweighs what Obama may or not not achieve as President. When I was born black people could not vote in many states and lynching was not uncommon. To go from that to having a black president in 45 years is a fantastic achievement.
The other cause of joy is seeing the consternation and dismay of the far right. The racists and bigots must be weeping bitter tears today, and that makes me very very happy.
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Gooo Palin! Nothing like some creationist book-burning right wing nut, to get the Republicans back on track. I hope she goes and looks on the Canadian border, so she can improve her foreign policy experience.
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Can someone throw light on why "redistribution " the point mcain et all harped on.. was/is such a dirty word.. after all I thought that after what we saw as the rsults of unfettered greed on wall street and the price the US payed for it... that point of mccain team would have no resonance..
but did it?there seemed to be alot of people who went to the ridiculous extent of saying socialist ..etc without taking a closer look at their existing tax structure
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I'm (almost) not embarrassed any more to be half-American!
I'm sure that at some point in the future I'll be disappointed or annoyed with President Obama, but it is still a wonderful and glorious moment!
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20. Bert_Yardbrush wrote:
"Thanks, Justin, it's been a fantastic voyage.
Well - what's next on the agenda?"
I guess we can all wait here for the next election
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# 43
You dont honestly believe that Obama had it in him to defeat Mcain, if the negative G W Bush consideration was taken out of the equation.
GW Bush consideration was the elephant in the room for Mcain.
I think it had an effect to a certain extant, but as far as an even match with out any prior circumstances the out come would have been the same. McCain lost every debate, he is completely out of touch with technology (Doesn't know how to use a computer) He made a horrible VP pick and is too old for the job. He had a horrible health care plan, no experience in economy, and gave huge tax breaks to people/businesses who did not need them. His campaign ads were also a joke, people saw right through them.
I do find some truth as to what you are saying even though I am Obama biased. I do not think that because of bush, Obama beat McCain. Obama beat him because he is more appealing and intellectually superior. Young American people are shredding the old ways of thinking.
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Mind you, if what's being claimed about Obama's even half true, he'll sort the world economy, introduce universal healthcare - and that's for the whole universe, not just Americans - and fix climate change. All in one go.
This gives a significant problem for the polar bears. As we all know, life's got a lot easier for these animals in recent years, what with the warming and the ability to travel large distances on high-speed low-cost ice floes. Oh, and to look really cool wearing Ray-Bans.
So now we're going to make their place really cold again and dump several additional metres of ice on their front lawn. Even that wouldn't be utterly unbearable (sorry!) if it weren't for the fact that we're sending Sarah Palin back there to shoot at them.
So you may feel good about yourselves, America, but just count yourselves lucky that in 2008, polar bears don't have the vote.
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Now that the Marketing Experiance of the Century is just about over would Justin Webb, or anyone else for that matter, like to tell a typical BBC licence-payer, thats me, just what exactly does Obama stand for. What is his manaifesto, assuming American politicians have manifestos, and why do BBC journalists apply not one scintilla of the critical faculties they use when examining British politicians when examining their American counterparts.
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As a Brit, may I say that Obama is evidently streets ahead of McCain in terms of brains, self-possession and charisma: America has elected someone who makes our own Prime Minister's shortcomings in all these qualities even more painfully apparent.
It has pained me though to see the liberal press in this country and - particularly - the BBC fawning over Obama in the most shamelessly partisan way. All elected politicians end up disappointing their electorates (when they don't actually shaft them thoroughly), and a measure of realism wouldn't have gone amiss. We could have done with some when Tony Blair was elected, and the footage of Gordon Brown being applauded up the Treasury steps is now painful to contemplate given the hollowness of his subsequent economic boom.
Obama has no room for manoevre on the economy, and will almost certainly preside over a deterioration in America's financial position. He probably won't have the political support necessary to bring about the changes America desperately needs to its healthcare system, and at some point he will have to choose between being a guy who tried and failed, or being a charismatic trimmer like Clinton, who talked the talk but couldn't put one foot in front of the other. It's going to be an interesting character study.
Thanks for your excellent reporting, by the way, Justin.
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endorfin wrote:
#21
Had McCain been a bit younger, had Palin been more experienced/more intelligent/less right-wing then it really could have happened.
I think it would have been different if Palin hadn't of been Palin but had been Lieberman.
He certainly fits all your boxes, and it would have made the choice harder for independants who didn't want to vote for someone who came across as out of touch as Palin
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What is all this fuzzle about sarah palin becoming the president in 2012 coming from?I beleive when we get to the river, we will cross it.
We shouldnt be sentimental at all at this very moment.At this point, we should be in one accord, rally round the newly elected president because he needs our support and ensure we channel our part for a better tommorrow.
Obama deserve to win undoubtedly after advocating for a change which we all want.Whether you are white, asia, latino or black, all what matters is Americans has spoken unanimously and I hope Obama can answer their calls.
God bless America.
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Sarah Palin is an extreme right wing, anti-science, anti-choice, anti-"learin" bigot, she preaches to a very limited section of the American population.
Personally i truly hope that she is the next republican candidate for president that way the democrats will stay in, however i have a suspicion that not even the GOP is as stupid as to rely on this idiot.
SP go back home, somewhere in Alaska a village is missing you
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"the Obama years will stretch America"
They certainly will....why?....becuse he will (be told) to bring in the North American Union....usa,canada and mexico join in a union (like the EU)..with a new single currency called the "AMERO"....
this was signed on 23march 2005 by Bush jr in waco, texas called the "security and prosperity partnership of north america"...aka the north american union.
so yes America will really be stretched!!!!!
kind regards
nomorefakenews
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53. endorfin wrote:
"Mind you, if what's being claimed about Obama's even half true, he'll sort the world economy, introduce universal healthcare - and that's for the whole universe, not just Americans - and fix climate change. All in one go."
You got it!
That's exactly what we are all expecting.
We had the reverse already and touched the bottom, now can just get better
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It is very worrying that Sarah Palin is still considered a contender by the Republicans after her obismally shallow performace this time round. She is to use an old Glasgow term a 'bam-pot'. They have already had 8 disasterous years of a complete idiot in the Whitehouse. Do they really want another one 4 or 8 years from now?
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Slate's recommendations (embrace McCain, appoint Republicans) is exactly what Barack must NOT do. The policies of the last 8 years whith wich McCain has concurred for 80% of the time have just been defeated in polls - Obama need not and does not have the right to embrace any of that
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Its a relief to the rest of the world that a return to reason has occured in America. The extremely negative paranoia of the Republican party: anti-gay, anti-intellectual, pro-gun, anti-abortion, religious extremists and borderline racists is all we've seen for the past 8 years. That together with the cynically predicated wars and the tainted financial system will have turned a generation against America and squandered the years of goodwill that existed before Bush came to power.
I do agree that the republicans need to get themselves away from the lunatic fringes above, where campaigners shout racist slogans at their rallies, where they insinuate terrorist links to whip up fear and where they seek to subtley divide America. Its hilarious to watch those brainwashed supporters now blather on about how they fear for the future now, when what they should be afraid of is the trillions of dollars debt the country has built up over the last 8 years threatening to turn the US into a second world country dependent upon China and the middle eastern powers for sustainence.
Obama's race is totally irrelevent, he just seemed like a nicer, kinder and fairer leader who had made something of himself than someone who has relied on nepotism their whole lives, has an awful temper, had an affair and abandoned his disabled wife with 3 kids, yet dares to preach about morality? Its not a hard decision here.
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"overcoming the fearsome challenge of Sarah Palin" - Really? I'm not so sure...
Sarah Palin, because of her youth, looks, and simple but effective (and rather Bush like) stage presence will always have a certain draw, a certain appeal among parts of conservative America. We saw in this election, however, how her Bush-like policies and her Bush-like lack of knowledge and intellect was a real drag on the McCain campain, even offensive to many women. There is an optimism today that I think will last, a change in direction in America that I think can be sustained and long lasting.
Sarah Palin's policies are a thing of the past in as much as they will no longer win elections, or at least not the next election. Not against a candidate that can articulate the consequences and the alternatives as Barak Obama can. The Republicans need a moderate, intellectual conservative. If they nominate Palin next time around they wont even have a prayer...
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I think there's more chance of the far right religious nuts in the GOP assassinating Obama and then blaming it on the war on terror. lol
Luckily for Obama, the past incumbent for 8 years has been the worst president of all time so its not going to be a hard act to follow. I predict that the Bush years will be remembered as a dark period where ignorance guided the Republican party in a quasi-fascist agenda similar to McCarthy-ism which threatened the security of the world whilst ironically trying to protect that security on home soil. Where inalienable rights where given up in the same sentence where they were sold to big business for big dollars thanks to the ironically named "Patriot" act, wire-tapping without warrants and the DMCA. Terrorists haven't needed to attack America since 2001 because America has been busy destroying its own economy and freedoms itself!
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One has woken up very optmistic with the news of the new US President. Let us hope that he does change things in the US as well as the world by being more moderate and thinking of those who have a hard time in life and also showing that everyone has to change concerning bigotry and racism.
We all have to live together and ideally should get along by debate and compromise which is a utopic idea!
He will have a very hard time as his world is so different to that of eight years ago.
We can only wish him good luck and hope that all governments with accept him and listen to his views as hopefully he will do with others.
He has an enormous responsibility and we all expect a lot from him.
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Parrisia said.... Obama is in for a tough ride....yes, definitely he is....a tough and a long one...that is exactly why I don't think this is the right time to be sarcastic about Palin....and 2012.
We have to be cognizant to the fact that the approach towards change (for the better, of course) should be made with a strong sense of urgency, caution and a huge amount of unconditional cooperation from all parties concerned...A thousand journeys begins with a single step....Let America in particular and the world in general take that step by making one foot forward towards improving and helping the poor in Asia and Africa.
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Sarah Palins VP nomination was the most expensively dressed suicide note in history
Obama will be praying he gets her or someone like her because it will be slightly easier than running unopposed.
America doesn't want a warmongering, incompetent, anti-gay, anti-immigrant, anti-poor cheerleader who regularly abuses power for personal gain, they've already had 8 years of Bush
Vive la Obama, hopefully this will see the end of the religious right forcing its carefully tailored and poorly justified beliefs on the rest of the country. Hopefully soon poor people will be able to get medical treatment, other countries will be allowed to keep their natural resources and the rich will maybe even contribute their fair share to society.
Having said that credit to McCain, he was gracious in defeat and you just feel if he hadn't been slandered out of the 2000 race by Bush and Rove the world could well have been a better place by now, rather than starting the long road to recovery in such a difficult period
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The hilarious thing about the rar righter GOP's is that they see Obama as "extreme left" or as communist/socialist, when in reality he is pretty centre-ground for most reasonable people with a slight left lean. I think the majority will appreciate the sentiment of a little bit of fairness given the recent happenings on Wall st. Besides which, didn't a Republican Administration effectively semi-nationalise quite a few of your banks? At least Gordon Brown could claim to be Labour (and a Scottish Calvinist) and hence effectively socialist. What was Bush's reasoning? Was it safeguard what the history books might and will say about him in years to come? Isn't that what a communist would do? lol
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"that is the way to be re-elected in 2012, overcoming the fearsome challenge of Sarah Palin" - Justin Webb
If you weren't being sarcastic, you've completely lost your marbles. Palin, of course, has the same delusion, but even the Republican Party are not that stupid. She will return to persecuting the unfortunate wildlife of Alaska - the only beings who might have benefited, at least transiently, had she become VP.
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#16: "Someone who is convinced that the earth was created 4,000BC? That man coexisted with dinosaurs? The reason why she never travelled in the past was that she didnt want to fall off the edge of the planet. "
While I don't think Palin is suitable to be president, is that really true?
I've seen that claim repeated all over the internet, but have never seen any actual evidence for it.
Is their any truth behind it, or is it just the left-wing equivilent of all the right-wing claims about Obama being a "Marxist" who want's to "abolish America"?
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Too tired to say much, but great victory! As for the future, well we have some hope ... : )
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Obama is what the American economy needs? One economic blow after the other, thanks to Bush's Iraq adventure, left America hungry for change. Obama is a symbol of hope for most Americans, no wonder he won. But will he be strong enough to meet his detractors and fulfill "the modern American dream." Bush's administration spent American taxpayers money for what they call "saving the world from terrorism"(depends how you define terrorism of course) and left the Americans hungry.
Obama may have won but will he succeed in mobilizing diverse and hungry America to rebuild itself. Will he lead America to revisit its history, how it was built?
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ref #62
So from your comments
1. You do not believe in one of Obama central tennants which was he could bring people together.
That means you don't believe in an inclusive country for all of us
2. You don't believe Obama ever meant it. And if people who don't agree with Obama, there rights and voices will not be heard during Obama administation.
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The strength of the argument, the eloquence of the speech, the beauty of the rhetorics as important as they are (if they truly reflect the real intent of its purpose and meaning) will nevertheless be put to waste...if they will not be matched by actions.....for afterall, actions speak louder than words....
History will not judge a president merely by his sweet promises ....his decisions and actions has to translate and transform those promises into definite and concrete results. Obama I believe can do that....
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Most people on the board should lay off Sarah Palin. If she was so incompetent, how did she manage to defeat and incumbent and become the governor of Alaska?
Saying Palin is incompetent is just as laughable as calling Bush incompetent! If Bush is so incompetent, it must follow that most americans are doubly so for electing him president twice.
The woman was thrust into national limelight quite so suddenly. though she miss-stepped at the initial stage, i think she has successfully acquitted herself as a political force to be reckoned with in the future.
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The last eight years are a blot on America's political landscape. McCain I believe was a worthy candidate but the choice of Palin as VP was a crass error. She represents everything that is manifestly not right with America. An America populated, in part, by small-minded, uneducated bigots whose vision of the world doesn't really stretch beyond the mail-box at the end of their yard.
Obama fought a splendid campaign. We have to be thankful that the majority of the American people responded positively to it.
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Obama's election presents two conflicting realities. The first is that the pain of the racial divide that has plagued America since its beginning is coming to an end. Obama's election proves that race is no longer a decisive factor in attaining even the most powerful positions in the US. There are still people who will allow race to influence them and in fact more Americans voted for Obama because he is black than would not vote for him for the same reason.
The second is that in the face of enormous crisis, America has chosen someone who is highly intelligent but brings little else to to office of the Presidency. He is inexperienced, has little knowledge of the crucial issues he will deal with, and has no experience as an executive. The kind of advisors he choses to help him wil be critical but he has demonstrated a willingness to associaciate himself with some very disreputable people and may be unprincipled.
All thinking Americans wish him well as the fate of their country and their own lives will be influenced by his success or failure but the nagging question of his inadequacy will not go away until he proves himself in actual performance. That is a far cry from mere rhetoric he has relied on up to now.
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"They certainly will....why?....becuse he will (be told) to bring in the North American Union....usa,canada and mexico join in a union (like the EU)..with a new single currency called the "AMERO"...."
- nomorefakenews
Yes, yes, Mr. Fakenews, now calm down, we've got your nice meds for you! What's that you say? Where's your tinfoil hat? Well, where did you put it down?
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If you need any proof of the level of scrutiny to which Alaskans vet their elected officials, with 99% of precincts reporting a convicted felon (on seven counts) is likely to hold onto his seat in the senate.
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No more campaigning for a bit yeehaw. Slate's suggestions not so bad. I'll be very interested to see cabinet picks. Not as supportive of the faith based initiatives suggestion as I believe in separation of church and state.
As to a 'Palin' threat, if the GOP can successfully remake itself in the next 4 years (and pleez at least some token ethnic mix for the TV's) then they'll have to come up with a more reasonable candidate. Palin said she wants to be a "unifier" next time around (I keep remembering Bush saying he's the 'decider') - that will be interesting in light of the things she has said, most recently that the 'far left wing' is taking over the government. A nutter no q's about it.
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Yes bearsall....I most definitely agree with you...both Clinton and Obama can talk the talk...Let's just hope that Gobama can walk the walk.
Maybe, just maybe....walking would not be enough...he has to make a run for it....and a marathon it will be...
Thanks Justin for the wonderful report.
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The GOP's rant about Obama's lack of experience in some areas blew up spectacularly in their faces as soon as Palin was chosen to be the VP candidate - her experience is limited and narrow to say the least.
If the commentators reckon that Palin would be a contender for 2012 I hope that she'll paired with John Bolton whose comments about your correspondent in Colorado was laughable - of course he wouldn't known about the other stuff cos' he was covering the Presidential election and not the Senate (and others) election.
Just imagine it - a frightening thought for the western world..........................
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#76 The american people elected bush jnr. once, in 2004. In 2000 he lost to Al Gore but the Supreme Court overruled the election. Try to keep up.
Enjoy your years in the cold where you belong.
Cry yourself to sleep over rape victims being allowed abortions, poor people allowed medical care and peace being given a chance.
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what i find very disgraceful is the manner in which Americans dont show any ounce of respect for their leaders.
Most of you are nihilists. you had criticize anything, just for the sake of being heard. You are so good at criticizing others, but very short on ideas.
nothing ticks me off more than the kind of expletives you use when criticizing your leaders. As an African, i find it very offensive.
Sadly for you lot, it demeans America in the eyes of the world. You cant use foul language on your president or any elected leader and then expect foreigners to respect your country. By doing so, you not only disrespect Bush, you disrespect the office he holds and undermine is moral stature and integrity in the eyes of the world.
shame on those people that are fond of using invectives in the public domain, to criticize Bush, Brown and others
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a truly momentous occasion.
It is hard to believe that during the first election in my lifetime, segregationist George Wallace won a large number of electoral college votes. And that, forty years later, a black man won the college votes in Virginia, from where Jefferson Davis led the Confederate Congress.
My faith in human nature is well and truly restored.
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#76
"Saying Palin is incompetent is just as laughable as calling Bush incompetent! If Bush is so incompetent, it must follow that most americans are doubly so for electing him president twice."
Correct, are you not aware of the incredulity in the rest of the world when Bush was re-elected in 2004.
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#76
Ice
why lay off Palin? She was not thrust anywhere. I take it she had some desire to be VP?
You write that calling her incompetent is like calling Bush incompetent....er, yes?
Where have you been for the last 8 years?
A budget surplus converted to the biggest deficit in history...2 wars, one of them totally illegal.....deliberately lying to the American people about WMD, and about Al Q in Iraq pre-invasion.
Bush will go down in history as the worst US Pres bar none. Palin would prob be worse, but she will never get the chance, not even GOP are stupid enough to put her on the ticket again.
Oh, and I suppose thinking that Johnny 'Alliday was a politician shows her competence?
I really can't wait for GOP inquest into what went wrong. McCain will be toast for picking her, no question.
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I am West Indian and has lost all respect for "white America" over the last few yrs. But now I truly respect them for the they represent: Love for country first.
God Bless America.
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Today is the day that I can tell my children's children that America made a historic decision today. No, it's not about the color of a person's skin, but on the ability to positively inspire a nation and to change it from it's course to doomsday.
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Republican idealogy is a thing of the past. It doesn't work
it belonged to the times that the population was less
people used horses and buggy to move around with.
We are now too interdependent. The safetly nets have to
exist in our societies. Without them, we risk to colaps.
The strength of America has always been the strong middle class
now we know and seen for last 8 years of Republican rule, the back of
middle class is broken. Thus the country is broken.
8 years of Clinton showed the opposit, the middle class was
strong. We all made money, we all were better off.
The era of cowboy mentality, war crazy policies, and
rude behaviour is at its end. The Sara Plain and Mccain
nasty campagne and their huge rejection by majority
showed that.
There is no future for Plain, she just went to join Dan Quail
and Mccain, he showed his true face, nasty old man, vendective
and out of touch. thats all folks
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Gracious speech from McCain, the real John McCain I think. I hope he continues to contribute to American political life. I think his campaign did him a disservice. Great speech from Obama too. I hope the spirit of unity both men referred to prevails. We cannot see into the future, but I think that Obama will govern from the center and work for all Americans. I don't think he is an idealogue. I think he is a pragmatist. He will not achieve all that his supporters want him to, and neither will he do what his detractors fear. I imagine that his team will include republicans and that he will want to send out a signal that his words about unity are not just rhetoric. Now we have to wait and see. A new era has begun in the great history of the USA. Congratulations, and my hope for peace and prosperity for all of you. Like it or not America is a beacon to the world. May you continue to shine brightly.
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Sarah Palin was a poor choice for such a great office. She would have been an embarrassment to the United States had McCain been elected. And what if he died, she would be our president? All her "Joe Six Pack" and "hockey mom" statements may have connected with some, but the people who lead our great country need to show some dignity. John McCain made a grave mistake thinking the "Hillary supporters" (and I am one) would just send their votes his way just because he chose a woman. Are women that shallow that we can't figure this out?
Anyway, a great day for America electing Barack and not "Joe Six Pack" or "Joe the Plumber" but Joe Biden.
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Oh please. Americans would sooner vote for Tina Fey than Palin. She is a toy that they dressed up to fit the part - she would make Bush look erudite. Even with coaching she could not speak in full sentences.
The GOP could throw a dart and hit a better candidate. Non-starter.
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Gee, Justin, you are really have access to this man's mind today, don't you! In fact I think this man will step by step go with his radical left instincts, supported with relish by Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reed with whose instincts I have nothing but contempt.
Evidently 51% of Americans weren't taking heed of many things Obama said, or of his actions that told much about his mindset, and for that, in time, they will reap the consequences.
Many years ago I travelled to the U.S. on business. The nation was in a state of depression after the humiliation inflicted on it not only by Iran holding hostage for more than a year its embassy staff in Teheran, but primarily because of its own impotence to do anything about it under the pathetically weak leadership of Jimmy Carter (a circumstance very quickly cured by Ronald Reagan).
Over the next few years I now expect that same impotence to return in a nation that has largely abandoned the character and values that made it great and now very stupidly imagines socialism will cure its ills.
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"If Bush is so incompetent, it must follow that most americans are doubly so for electing him president twice." DameMargaretThatcher/icetoyoa/MagicKirin
Well it would, if they had, but they didn't, so it doesn't. Even discounting the cheating, Gore won more votes in 2000. Bush will leave the USA with two ongoing wars, one of which he started illegally and without the slightest need to do so, a financial crisis of unprecedented dimensions, kidnapping and torture as standard operating procedure; and the lowest international image for decades - which of course, Obama's election has done much to mend. Now that's what any non-delusional person would call incompetence.
If you had believed one tenth of the garbage you've been hurling at Obama on this blog over the last week, you'd already have packed up your belongings and fled to the hills.
Finally, just let me say:
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA! I'm delighted you lost, and I hope it hurts.
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What worries me as a white man is that if 96% of whites had voted for McCain then the BBC and all the other white hating librals would be out shouting that McCain won because of white racists. So how is it different when 96% of Blacks vote for Obama nothing is said? Only whites are racist of course?
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Obama can certainly inspire the decent folk of America (less than 52% of the population) and the World.
It will be a long and difficult road.
Of the exit polls, 38% specifically favored Palin. Because they have been indoctrinated since childhood, there is very little hope that that 38% may approach civilization.
To that 38% must be added the amoral and self-serving who manipulate the 38%.
It will be long and difficult. Although there is now hope, the future of America is not at all certain.
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Obama can certainly inspire the decent folk of America (52% of the population) and the World.
It will be a long and difficult road.
Of the exit polls, 38% specifically favored Palin. Because they have been indoctrinated since childhood, there is very little hope that that 38% may approach civilization.
To that 38% must be added the amoral and self-serving who manipulate the 38%.
It will be long and difficult. Although there is now hope, the future of America is not at all certain.
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I totally agree with Montana Wildernasty in saying that Obama may not be a perfect president....For that matter, I think there never was...and never will be a "perfect president" in any country.
Nevertheless, a President's performance can only be judged not by its efforts nor by its charisma...but rather through its contributions to the betterment of entire humanity's living conditions...Some may have a lasting impression and effect in its own specific country while a few will be remembered by their character and contribution to mother world...This then will separate the men from the boys.
And Obama my friends has the character and the will to make the difference...but then again, don't take my words for that...we will all have at least 4 years to wait and see...let history judge him.
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Obama can certainly inspire the decent folk of America (less than fifty-two percent of the population) and the World.
It will be a long and difficult road.
Of the exit polls, 38% specifically favored Palin. Because they have been indoctrinated since childhood, there is very little hope that that 38% may approach civilization.
To that 38% must be added the amoral and self-serving who manipulate the 38%.
It will be long and difficult. Although there is now hope, the future of America is not at all certain.
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I stayed up all night to watch history unfold and boy am I glad that I did. This victory resonates with me as a black British male, as I never thought I would see a black president in my lifetime and I'm 41 years old.
Last night, was the night that America grew up as a nation, and chose a man for president, based on the content of his character as opposed to the colour of his skin.
As I've been saying for months, not only has Barack won this race and won it well, he's going to make an excellent president and leave his detractors in the shade.
What a beautfiul day to be a black person.
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Today I am proudly flying the flag of my country to celebrate one of the most historic and dramatic events in our history. This is not a day for recrimination or facile opinions about the future, rather, it is a day to celebrate not only our freedom and democratic values, but the inclusion of every American in the fabric of our society without distinction of ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation, wealth, or party affiliation.
I am confident and hopeful that Obama's victory, values, clear vision of the future, pragmatism, education, temperament, commitment, and his message of hope will help us overcome to problems that afflict us and will make us a stronger, more unified, and a nation that elicits respect and admiration for its leadership, tolerance, and values rather than one seen with fear, apprehension, incredulity and often hate by the world.
Our focus at this moment should not be on the future of Sarah Palin or the future of the GOP, a party likely to undergo a dramatic transformation in months to come, but on the forming of a new Cabinet and selection of key advisors that will contribute to Obama's ability to govern and to the success of his Administration...and our country. I anticipate the inclusion of one or two Republicans or Independents in his Cabinet, and I expect a Centrist agenda at home and restrain abroad during the next four years.
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Re:#41 Yippee!!! Finally, we can hold our heads up again when we travel abroad. It was a decisive win and he will make a great President. The old guard of the democratic party had to make way for the new, and the GOP will have to regroup and decide whether to spin off Palin and her followers or continue down the rabbit hole. The electoral map is testament to a winning strategy and people's willingness to try to fix the economy, get us out of Iraq and heal the divisiveness. Feeling hopeful for a better future for us all.
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Wow, I am very amazed at the election results. I would like to thank all the former KKK members that quit being racist and voted for Obama. McCain is presently thanking Cheney and President Bush for a job well done. McCain proved to the American people that White people can gracefully step aside as the Black Americans continue to move on up.
Now the hard works begin. The White house needs to be redone the furniture must go to bring in more stylist ones.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
#94 said
Oh please. Americans would sooner vote for Tina Fey than Palin. She is a toy that they dressed up to fit the part - she would make Bush look erudite. Even with coaching she could not speak in full sentences.
She is different alright, but that does not make her stupid. If she was as empty as you try to suggest, how come she was intelligent enough to defeat a former governor to clinch her party nomination, then go a step further by defeating an incumbent democratic governor on her way to becoming the governor of Alaska.
In your utopian world, she must really be dumb to have pulled up that brace
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#19
I also was amused (and annoyed in equal measure) by Bolton's deranged ranting.
I was more upset that Dimbleby let the bullying of his colleagues go unchallenged - and have posted a comment about that on 'The Editors' blog.
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Robloop wrote:
Gee, Justin, you are really have access to this man's mind today, don't you! In fact I think this man will step by step go with his radical left instincts, supported with relish by Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reed with whose instincts I have nothing but contempt.
Evidently 51% of Americans weren't taking heed of many things Obama said, or of his actions that told much about his mindset, and for that, in time, they will reap the consequences.
Many years ago I travelled to the U.S. on business. The nation was in a state of depression after the humiliation inflicted on it not only by Iran holding hostage for more than a year its embassy staff in Teheran, but primarily because of its own impotence to do anything about it under the pathetically weak leadership of Jimmy Carter (a circumstance very quickly cured by Ronald Reagan).
Over the next few years I now expect that same impotence to return in a nation that has largely abandoned the character and values that made it great and now very stupidly imagines socialism will cure its ills.
..............................
Obama has what Carter did not, a strong majority in both houses. He is also a very different kind of man. I would say his election returns the nation to its original Enlightment roots and away from the dark ages mentality of the republican rump, which has been consigned to the dustbin of history. the New Republican party will need to return to its roots which are those of Abraham Lincoln and Teddy Roosevelt not Rush Limbaugh.
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The villifying of Sarah Palin on this site is not only totally unjust, but plainly very stupid. Typical of Democrat/left-wing intolerance we've witnessed over the last few months! Would I have chosen her? No. I think she was too lightweight, lacking in depth of knowledge, worldly experience, and probably necessary sophistication. But from many things read, she has the instincts for doing the good job she has done in Alaska, which explains why she is a popular governor who has got results.
The vicious disparagement of Palin, promoted by the liberal media, reminds me of a Toronto radio station talk- show host opening discussion about Sarah Palin. He was inundated by calls from woman who without a shred of justification, tore into the woman. Essentially they did not like Palin's values, opposition to abortion, and her Christian beliefs.
Supposed Canadian 'tolerance' was exposed for what it really is not. It also demonstated graphically that, collectively, Canadian women have 'attitude' about the size of most of their over-generous backsides, and says much about the state of their happiness.
Yet here again, we see posting after posting of similar baseless and shameful disparagement. And these are Obama supporters! Need I say more! You reap what you sow.
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#97 when again were white people abducted from their homes and sold into slavery by a black nation? Sorry been looking at my big book of history and I can't seem to find any record of that?
By-the way- it does mention that it's not possible for man to have been around, the same time as dinosaurs, sorry.
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Very well done to Obama and the American people for the historic change in viewpoint!
As a practical matter however, real change will only come when we bring to justice the professional criminals who create wars in order to keep us in debt and under control.
That would include people like Rockefeller, Kissinger, Brzezinski - the guys that control both sides in this latest entertainment event. Similar to the coliseum in the latter days of Rome.
Hopefully Obama will have guts enough to do something about the real international criminals. And, as you thinking Brits no doubt already know, that does not include Osama Bin Laden and other misdirectors but does include some of your own bright lights in the Finance/Banking sector.
Larry Byrnes - Clearwater Florida USA
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The villifying of Sarah Palin on this site is not only totally unfair, but also extremely stupid. Typical of Democrat/left-wing intolerance we've witnessed over the last few months!
Would I have chosen her? No. I think she was too lightweight, lacking in depth of knowledge, worldly experience, and probably necessary sophistication. But from many things read, she has the instincts for doing the good job she has done in Alaska, which explains why she is a popular governor who has got results.
The vicious disparagement of Palin, promoted by the liberal media, reminds me of a Toronto radio station talk-show host opening discussion about Sarah Palin. He was inundated by calls from woman who without a shred of justification, tore into the woman. Essentially they did not like Palin's values, opposition to abortion, and her Christian beliefs.
Supposed Canadian 'tolerance' was exposed for what it really is not. It also demonstated graphically that, collectively, Canadian women have 'attitude' about the size of most of their over-generous backsides, and says much about the state of their happiness.
Yet here again, we see posting after posting of similar baseless and shameful disparagement. And these are Obama supporters! Need I say more! You reap what you sow.
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You've got to be kidding, right? President-elect Obama has exactly zero track record of reaching across the aisle, and a long string of either partisan votes of of voting "present.' There is no history of "relishing fights with his own party" on which to base your assertion.
There is no fact or extrapolation of fact to suggest that he is "too mid-Western" to "stick it to the right." Besides, he will have an eager beaver Democratic Congress to nudge him on should the President-elect have any reluctance.
Furthermore, the suggestion that Obama will fight his party because he thinks it is the right thing to do comes straight out of la-la land. "Politics ain't beanbag" as someone once said.
Obama will shellack the Republicans because he is one part liberal and nine parts coldly ruthless and cunning. He is Clinton without the need to "feel your pain" and that will make him exceedingly effective. However, the notion that he will be driven by purity of motive and a noble calling is comical.
As to that fear of Palin and the GOP, of which I am a member of the latter while being no fan of the former, Obama is unlikely to fear a party and a rump of that party that has been plastered in two consecutive elections. To be re-elected Obama needs to govern on his own terms and succeed, not govern in fear of a defeated rabble. Reaching out to the right will earn Obama nothing, especially when the right is discredited.
Rub the stardust out of your eyes Mr. Webb. Contrary to the hype, America has not elected the Messiah, but an exceedingly shrewd politician with a voting record that is at once highly opprtunistic and highly partisan.
A question, though, does anyone in Europe see past empty symbols? Where are those clear eyed sophisticated European realists? Oh, I know. At home playing with their "I luv Barak" dolls. Good grief.
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Obama thanks you for the support.
Pelosi thanks you for the rubber stamp.
Reid thanks you but does not know why.
Osama thanks you for the chance to regroup.
Putin thanks you for the newbee.
I thank you for no longer being responsible to pay my mortgage, pay a doctor, being a citizen, or otherwise provide for myself or my family.
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In olden times, the lengthy period between election and taking up office made some sort of sense.
But surely the time has come to again update the US constitution to permit near-immediate transition of power.
Pending such a change:
Dick Cheney should today resign from the position of Vice-President, George W Bush could then nominate Barack Obama in his stead; upon Obama's confirmation, Dubya should himself resign; we would then have President Obama within a very short time rather than having to wait 11 weeks.
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45: olafpalme
I do believe GWB actually WAS a male cheerleader at college - there's a picture somewhere.
78: MarcusAureliusII
"The kind of advisors he choses to help him wil be critical but he has demonstrated a willingness to associaciate himself with some very disreputable people and may be unprincipled."
I understand many experienced pundits are predicting he will include some Republicans in his administration. So you may be correct about his willingness to associate himself with some very disreputable people, whose views he does not share.
I thought that was the mark of a good politician?
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Well done Barack Obama. Well planned and organised. I believe he personally gets the credit for most of that.
I am British but I would have voted for John McCain and Sarah Palin.
In the end, though, it is the democracy that matters. The 2000 election did a lot of harm. It was a draw and nobody really believed that could happen.
This wasn't.
Let's look past the first black president and even the first woman president - and Sarah Palin is intelligent as well as entertaining, the magic combination - let's look forward to the first elected president of China.
Then the world will really have changed and improved.
It has to happen. Democracy springs, in the end, from capitalism. There can be no market without consensus and democracy is the simplest form of consensus.
Nationalism - which currently holds China together - will not long outlive exposure to foreign cultures.
For all of the ideological talk, the USA arose from capitalism and to capitalism it will always return. I believe Barack Obama understands that.
Not so sure about Nancy and Harry.
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Who'd have thunk it?
A black US President before a black UK PM - barring the hopefully unthinkable, that is.
And whilst it is certainly a truism that Brits are, by and large. more colour-blind than our American cousins, I can't see any likely candidate currently in Parliament.
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97: mmarkjm
Seriously, 4% of blacks voted for McCain?
I wonder how the tiny demographic of wealthy blacks split. I suspect most of the 4% come from them.
I'm struggling to work out why white voters earning under $200,000 would have voted for McCain. For equivalent black voters, there is absolutely no reason at all. What has McCain ever promised to do for them? It's not racism, it's naked self-interest, the same reason super-rich white guys nearly all voted for McCain.
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108:
I agree but he's history ...
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In Alaska, it looks like Sen Stevens will pull off a surprise win, which means that when he goes to jail they will be a special election to fill his spot. Unlike many other states, the governor doesn't appoint a replacement. Call me crazy, and it's not something I'm advocatng, but there seems to be an obvious Republican candidate.
There's a fair likelyhood we will be hearing from Palin again in the very near future. which would be good news for Tina Fey anyway.
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You folks seem to be of the misperception that the candidate makes a difference. This election had nothing to do with Obama vs. McCain -- it was all about the fact that most Americans (understandably) weren't happy with where the nation is headed. As a result, they assumed that every Republican will naturally continue Bush's policies, so they ran as fast as they could to the nearest Democrat. Hillary -- even though she was soundly beaten by Obama in the primaries -- would also have won in a landslide. The economic crisis sealed the deal.
In four years, Obama will be re-elected if most people are happy with where he's taken the country. Otherwise, the Republican candidate will win. And yes, folks -- that's true even if her name is Sarah.
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robloop wrote:
The villifying of Sarah Palin on this site is not only totally unjust, but plainly very stupid. Typical of Democrat/left-wing intolerance we've witnessed over the last few months! Would I have chosen her? No. I think she was too lightweight, lacking in depth of knowledge, worldly experience, and probably necessary sophistication.
The reasons you have just listed is the reasons that most people are scared of her!
A woman who can't even name one paper that she has read is not a good pick for VP.
Palin seems a genuine person but I expect there are millions of genuine people in the US.
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I am sorry to say.Obama has "Character" deficiencies. Mr. McCain is the moral one of the two. America is lacking. We could use a moral President. And why do I charge that Barrack Obama is Immoral? He is because of his extreme views about Abortion. Life is the most precious of all gifts from God. The Democratic party has abandoned the unborn.There is a promise,by Obama,to sign the Freedom of Choice Act, This law,already passed by the Congress and the Senate is ready to sign by Obama. It will effectively cancel out all efforts made by the Right to Life advocates that have been effected since 1973. Mr.Obama failed to vote for (3)bills in the Illinois State Senate that would have granted "Personhood" and medical care to Babies who have "Survived" a failed abortion. The babies are left to die unaided by physicians although they have been "fully born". No,sirs and madams,Barrack Obama is not a man of "Character". I fear that the inner soul of Mr. Obama will surface and that americans will find that they elected an eloquent prevaricateur. Despite a dark,secret background facts about it which still remain unanswered,Mr. Obama faces increased scrutiny now that he is to be on the world stage. McCain and Palin are decent and honest. McCain is an american hero. His father an admiral,his grandfather an admiral. He was one rank short of admiralty. Sarah Palin is not Tina Fey of SNL. Sarah Palin is going places in the republican party. I understand that McCain's pro-life views were endorsed by the Pope,a rarity in Papal history. Conversely,Obama has endorsements from Hamas,Hugo Chavez and Kenya. I believe that Raila Odinga,a convicted felon and Prime minister of Kenya is by his own admission Obama's "Paternal Cousin". Obama actually campaigned for this man who,after the statute of limitations expired,admitted to participating in genocide. Folks,fruit does not fall far from the tree. I am an educated individual. I have (17) years of education and have a bachelors degree in psychology/Biology. I am not so easily strayed by a man because he is eloquent and popular. I look at the allegations,weigh the facts and try to make an intelligent assessment. This,I think was not done. A lot of disenfranchised people heard Obama and participated in wishful thinking without seriously considering the man's obvious flaws that I assure you will come back to hit us in the derriere. I did not vote for Barrack Obama. I voted for Mc Cain. While Mccain has (50) years of public service,Obama has less than (5) in the government. He lacks the wisdom associated with age. he has not answered the questions asked of him about where he was born,his associations,his ties. I for one see right through him. His records are restricted. McCain and Palin freely presented theirs. When McCain's citizenship status was questioned,he answered them. We can't be sure about Obama though. There are current appeals related to that question. It is said that Obama's mother,being american while Barrack Senior was not,required his mother to have been a citizen for (10) years. Five of them had to be after the age of 16. Well then,if his mother gave birth to Obama in 1961 as is claimed,then his mother did not meet citizenship requirements which would be necessary for her to be able to confer Natural born status on Barrack. The media in america,I accuse of downplaying and downright ignoring pertinent adverse information that would have shown whether Obama is even eligible under the US Constitution to be President of the United States. There are many other unanswered concerns proferred not only by myself.Obama favors the Palestinians State. he wants to abandon Israel,an ally we have had for decades. Soon he may abandon the UK and canada. He has said at different times that he was Islamic,at times Christian. His Indonesian school records stated that he was "islam[ic" and that he was "Indonesian". If I am incorrect on any of what I have written I will publicly apologize. However,I do not believe I am. I do not make rash assertions. I am not racist. I would have voted for a black man,an indian,a chinese-american as long as they were of high moral caliber and americans of natural birth. It is incumbent on the world to investigate these assertions. Obama will be entering one of,if not the most powerful position on this planet. What he does effects billions of people. I have been a bit loquacious here so I will close. Please don't let Obama's apparent charm effect you serious and honest assessment of this mans suitability to be the President of the US. Cheerio.
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I am so interested to see if the venom of the Republicans was "professionally required" and will dissolve now the race is over. Or will it turn out to be a facet of that party and lead to bitter in fighting and turmoil between the religious right and the centrists.
The fact that Republican commentators have identified it but not dismissed it as a possibility suggests it is at least in the balance.
I am not into blood sports but ....
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"collectively, Canadian women have 'attitude' about the size of most of their over-generous backsides, and says much about the state of their happiness." - robloop
Remarks like that show us exactly what sort of person defends Palin: bigots.
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cozzy121 wrote:
#97 when again were white people abducted from their homes and sold into slavery by a black nation? Sorry been looking at my big book of history and I can't seem to find any record of that?
Read up about the Barbary Pirates they were a group from North Africa who used to raid coastal villages in Europe taking the towns people as slaves.
Of course it wasn't on the same scale as the slave trade (which incidently was black people being sold into slavery by a black nation - the buying nations just happened to be white).
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#19, Schranzo,
Yes I saw mr. Bolton and I agree with you. More than that, he was bullying those BBC reporters in a very Neoconistic way.
But then, he's one of the founders of that movement, so my expectations on his performance were fulfilled ;-).
("Fire him!" What a remark to make...)
#13, British-ish,
Cheer up, every country has a percentage of people who cannot cope with racism, Holland is no exception. But it's not 47%, if you're suggesting this. My gut feeling is that it's a much smaller minority.
Together with the fundamentalistic Christians (of whom many are not racist!) I don't think it will be even close to 47%. Still a large number, but managable.
The Republicans are in a difficult position: are they going to use this minority as a base with Palin or thinkalike as a front runner, or will they try to get a lot of disappointed Republican voters back into a more sensible program? I wish them well and hope they will make the wiser choices.
However, not all is well, just look at the electoral map: a few states have 'illogical' double digits for McCain. It will be a momentous task to get these states back into the new usa. (rural areas in toss-up states were not very eager to vote for McCain/Palin)
#78, MAII
Good management is building the best team. I've had several bosses now, the best was the one that listened and chose the right persons for every task.
Not the ones who knew (or thought they knew) everything of the job beforehand. The worst was the one who thought his position was an excuse to do everything
in his own way, regardless of what his team was saying. And yes, it can be quite that simple.
Justin, for some (obscure?) reason, senator Stevens is doing surprisingly well in Alaska. There's a vacancy to be filled in the senate very soon, don't you think?
Thanks for all the great discussions and links. Aqua, there's some hope for a better future! Ed, if I were an old Scot I would say: Boidheach.
I'm gonna try to overcome my addiction to this site, now.
No more spreading of salty wealth, just a smile that will last at least for this second, or a minute, or a day. 21st of january, hurry!
Ange.
PS I wonder what the name of that puppie will be... Squirrel would be nice ;-)
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110/robloop
"The villifying of Sarah Palin on this site is not only totally unjust, but plainly very stupid. Typical of Democrat/left-wing intolerance we've witnessed over the last few months!"
I contend, sir, that the vilification of Barack Obama on this site by yourself and certain other posters is equally unjust, stupid, and typical of Republican/right-wing intolerance. Just because you are smaller in number does not make you any more right, or any less of a hypocrite.
McCain was attacked but not attacked as much as Palin. There is a reason for this discrepency, and it is not liberal whimsy. McCain is an intelligent and experienced political operator with an essentially centrist ideology. Palin, needless to say, is not. The reason Palin got more criticism was that she deserved more criticism - though perhaps not the degree of criticism she actually received.
Palin is a divisive figure, and her effective dismissal of anyone who doesn't live in "small town America" was utterly poisonous. But it can be put down to an injudicious choice of words by a genuine neophyte, and with appropriate coaching and building of her knowledge base, she may become a more formidable opponent able to reach outside her core constituency instead of slamming the door shut.
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#115
You can't pay your mortgage? Why, has Obama sneaked out in the middle of the night and stolen your money?
Oh no, I forgot. You're one of the ones who earns more than $250k and the additional *massive* tax hike (3%, IIRC) means you'll no longer be able to provide even the thinnest gruel for your children. There will no longer be clothes in the neil_a2 household, because Barack Hussein Al-Bama has taken everything to give to his Politburo chums.
Do you have *any* idea how whiny you sound?
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re:62 parrissa
"Slate's recommendations (embrace McCain, appoint Republicans) is exactly what Barack must NOT do."
I don't think he will. Not directly anyway. He didn't make Hillary V-P candidate. Though she may pop up later ......
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My thoughts: I embrace Obama’s changes with the economy because I am watching homes foreclose around my neighborhood everyday. I don’t care if his skin is Biracial that doesn’t matter in terms of how qualified he is. Personally, as a white college educated American, I feel he understands the average family more than the majority of politicians (Democrats and Republicans alike). Obama was a scholarship student who worked hard like the rest of the world has too. I have more faith in Obama than any other politician. I am so proud of America. With the research done, anyone will see he is not only a man with excellent character and integrity but he has intelligence. I told my family, I think the Presidential candidates should have a better education and hopefully show higher intelligence than the average citizen. Obama meets that expectation with his law and political background. I am proud to be voting at 24 years old for my second time and not worrying about additional friends being sent to a war they are oppose.. His choice with Biden is also very pleasing to the educated middle-class American! Biden is a great politician and like I say it is someone’s actions that speak louder than words. Maybe now the other countries will understand the U.S. really has been and still is against so many policies, war, and economic changes in the last 8 years. We do APOLOGIZE for our governments actions but it was beyond our control and our voting actions show this. Our rights have also been slowly taken away during the last 8 years. As an American, I can not wait till January. As a human living in the world today, I can not wait till January!
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Justin,
Loved the blog - excellent journalism. Any chance of doing a weekly broadcast - perhaps even a radio piece. Think of it as a letter home explaining the America you have so wonderfully described?
Seriously.
No, Seriously.
Alistair Cooke would have been very proud of you and you would be a worthy successor to the great man.
Please think about it - I'm sure the beeb would snap you up and for the avoidance of doubt - thank you.
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#110 / 113
Do not insult Christ by saying Palin has Christian values. She has the values of a fringe group of narrow-minded bigots who hide behind a very selective reading of the Bible.
I for one am glad that we as a nation have finally woken up and rejected the anti-intellectual rhetoric of her and her ilk. The fact that after eight years of disaster the popular vote was still as close as it was is extremely worrying though. I think MLK would be happy, but not satisfied.
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You are quite the imbecile if you really think Palin's challenge was fearsome. Are you English, cause you have that 'wanky' self-righteous air that they have?
Anyway you are an imbecile. Stop writing.
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119.
MORE colour blind???? You are joking? There is no chance of the british establishment allowing a black or asian person to rise to the political elite in this country.
None. Nil. Nothing.
Do not confuse the ability to hide discrimination with the absence of discrimination.
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# 92, selfevidenttruths....
You are one of very few people writing on this blog who has offered an intelligent profound statement. As I remember from yesterday, you consider yourself Moderate. I was the one who acknowledged you as a fellow Moderate.
While I voted for McCain, secretly, I wanted Obama. I used the voting booth to cast my opinion. I told you last night I did this with Ross Perot when that nit wit Rush Limbaugh told me I'd waste my vote. The voting booth, according to my parents, was a place to express your opinion. Yesterday, I said in that booth, "this is the way I think, don't forget me, the moderate. We're the ones who come together, find compromise, find solutions. If you really want America to change and you offer to lead, remember us and together we will change."
Just before Obama's Memorable Speech, I e-mailed my family on both sides who are all liberals and congratulated them. I said in that e-mail that I hoped during his speech that he would recognize the many people who did not vote for him and tell us he would reach out. He did recognize us.
I liked the term he used to describe the divisive players of Washington. "Immature" One could say he was describing George Bush but considering the hateful, nasty, divisive speech Nancy Pelosi gave on the floor of the House for the baillout during a time of crises, along with the vehemenence rumored he experienced with Harry Reid at the White House on that same day when Reid stormed out of the meeting actually shoving the door opened against the wall, I wonder if "Immature" wasn't directed at them.
My reason for thinking this was a conversation I had with my son's former girlfriend of years ago, while of liberal thoughts and heart, I absolutely adored her. She did an internship in a county commissioner's office. This young girl was esctatic to have actually worked on and been an essential part of a particular bill that as she said " would benefit the community" only to witness the behavior of the these commissioners in action and watch her hard work dissolve before her very eyes. She described them as "kindergartners" I told her "It takes a young mind, with grown up ideas to recognize childish behavior."
Obama remembers 9/11. For all of you Bush Bashers, granted I voted for him both times but I did not agree with a lot of what he did and do not favor him now, and by the way, Ralph Nader took 17,000 votes from Al Gore which ultimately cost him the election. Sore losers conveniently forget that. They prefer to think Bush "cheated" as cited above in a post. But remembering 9/11. That was one time of many times as Obama pointed out last night, this country was not divided. I saw the speech Bush made and the then Speaker of the House, Tom Daschle, became emotional. He reached out to shake The President's hand and with that South Dakota style you saw his mouth form the words, "Thank You".
The bottom line is, judging by the posts to this blog that I have been following for weeks now, all one has to recognize is the absolute HATE from both sides. Moderates are the only people who will be able to bring this country together and go forward. The Right and the Left hold entirely too much vehemence and WON'T let go of it. They and soley they are responsible for the divisiveness this country has been plagued with. As I said above, my family has been highly critical of me. When asked why I'm like I am, I've always said, "I don't believe in giving the fish. Rather I believe in giving the fishing pole." Then I add, "Every member of society must contribute to this society to be a democracy." That is a quote from a liberal brother. I like to remind him he said it. Every mistake made has been mine and mine alone. I don't ask for forgiveness, or a do over. I just accept it and learn from it. Our society doesn't act like that. They want their mistakes to be bailed out and forgotten and if we don't respond to THEIR terms, then the HATE begins.
If Obama does what he said in his famous speech, he will be the greatest President in History. I as a Moderate look forward to working with him.
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OBAMA ! OBAMA !
A GREAT DAY FOR AMERICA AND A PROMISING FUTURE FOR OUR WORLD !
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This was as cathartic a moment as I've seen in American politics, and one where I was proud of my state and country.
It also leaves us divided between those with unrealistic hopes and those with unrealistic fears. Count me among the former.
There have always been two America's. One was founded "first and foremost as a business proposition." The second has deeply held ideals about the rights and the will of the people which it sometimes acts on. When it does, it gives me, at least, hope that it may accomplish something truly good.
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@mooseslayer
Such rubbish is exactly what Palin thrives on!
Obama is a CHRISTIAN and not a Muslim!
Even if he was religion should be kept out of politics-Just look at the middle east to show you where it leads!
Palin will never be president!
She polarizes the electorate too much just like Hillary Clinton would have done!
Obama is the future-Palin /McSame is the past!
This will be like the landslides in the UK in 1979/1997.
The Labour Party in 1979 needed 18 years to get back,the Tories still havent come back.
Same will happen to the Republicians.
With there negative campaigning and scaremongering wont wash any more.
lets be honest what could have Mccain offered what Bush WASNOT doining?
Answer NOTHING!
Thats why he lost!
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A follow up to Moderates.
Sweden elected for the first time a Representative for Moderates. Fredrik Reinfeldt. He ran on "The New Moderates" platform.
Check it out.
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#123 said
In four years, Obama will be re-elected if most people are happy with where he's taken the country. Otherwise, the Republican candidate will win. And yes, folks -- that's true even if her name is Sarah.
Nicely said, and it could not be truer. What most people on this blog do not understand, is that Palin is a mobilizer of people.Being her 1st time out, She maybe a bit rough on the edges on the national scene, but i can guarantee that in 4 years time, she had be a serious contender for president. Afterall, if a black man can become the president, why not a woman
I am happy for all black people,but sadly, Obama has been handed a poisoned chalice. What, with the US economy in the tank, wars on two fronts, crippling national debt - he had require a miracle to navigate through those torturous waters. i see him spending only 1 term as president, cos he now as to walk the talk.
I hope he is not an empty suit filled with rhetoric, cos if he does not succeeds he would be more vilified than Bush.
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I would like to say a word for Joe Biden. I have think he has been a big plus for Obama. I thought he was excellent in the debate with Sarah Palin and despite the odd gaffe was very effective on the campaign trail. I hope that Obama uses Biden effectivly and does not relagate him to a Quayle like role attending funerals etc.
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"a truism that Brits are, by and large. more colour-blind than our American cousins"
Interesting. I would have said 15 years ago (when I spent some time talking to people from the UK) that it was far more acceptable to make what I would call racist statements in the UK than it was in the US. Comments I heard, in particular, about UK immigrants of Asian ancestry, I found objectionable, beginning with the name they were commonly called. It was not acceptable at the time in the US to call any racial, ethnic or religious group by a derogatory name.
I also had the sense, however, that the UK was becoming less racist rapidly, and wouldn't be particularly surprised to find it less racist than the US today.
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"to really stick it to the right"
See, that is the exact kind of partisan garbage that just continues to perpetuate the same problems we cycle through term after term.
I voted for Obama for a change. A change in the way we look at things, not this same old "I win, hahaha" junk that has continued through generations.
You sound like a person, who in a relationship, rather than seeing eye-to-eye and working together, you would desire to try and get a leg up.
I don't like it. It stinks of rotten ideals.
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#125
Part of your delusional post included:
"I look at the allegations, weigh the facts, and try to make a sensible judgement"
As do I.
You've posted almost exactly the same stuff before, under a different name. The appalling grammar, spelling, and writing style give you away. Quite seriously, if you have 17 years of education (including a degree), I suggest you go back to your seat of learning and demand a refund, because they saw you coming.
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I pointed out that the years of conservative power (1980-2008) were years of action opposed to traditional conservative views on the size of government, deficits, foreign involvements, government intrusiveness and immigration.
Now the question is, what will this period of Democratic control bring? Will they try to retread '60s liberalism, revert to Clintonian "conservative lite" or come up with something different altogther.
I think the "conservative lite" approach has the defect of having no ideas. It tries to coopt the neocon agenda and make it more reasonable. As for the former, I think it was a mixed bag. The War on Poverty, as one of my friends pointed out,
"worked, dam*it!"
To me, in that case, you had an excellent program, food stamps, bundled with one that was deeply flawed in its conception and poorly executed: welfare. What about housing stamps?
Finally, Obama will be very lucky and/or very good not to have his presidency sunk by the Iraq war. If it is not, he will need a lot more luck and/or skill for it not to done in by Afghanistan.
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WOO HOO, what a campaign, what an election, what a result. Sense prevails; OK, Obama may not have the edge in experience, but he clearly has the edge in talent. For those suffering exaggerated fears of liberalism or -gasp- socialism, you have no idea what these things are. And a dose of them could do you some good, not that you've any real prospect of that. Are you all Rupert Murdoch or something? I think not.
As for:
97. "What worries me as a white man is that if 96% of whites had voted for McCain then the BBC and all the other white hating librals would be out shouting that McCain won because of white racists. So how is it different when 96% of Blacks vote for Obama nothing is said? Only whites are racist of course?"
Oh please. FYI, not one single country outside the US had a majority support for McCain when last polled. 77% of Australians (overwhelmingly white) supported Obama. So are we all 'white-hating liberals'? Or do we just have enough sense to know a good man when we see one? BTW, we supported a conservative government for twelve years running, until it too became too much to tolerate late last year.
Feels good.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
RobertLaity, I respect your views and your right to...oh hang on...no I don't.
You're an idiot, sir. Sorry, but there it is.
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It is a great day, one of the last barriers has been broken. We start the day knowing that Race is not a barrier to the Greatest, yet toughest job in the world.
But, Gender still is.
But, the day also started with Anti-Gay amendements passing in at least two states, possibly 3, the market lower, no real power change in the Congress and Russia sounding like the old Cold War USSR, moving missles into the Baltic.
While Obama was civil, his minions were not. From the blogs to the PACs, there was more hate and venom spewed, at a level I have never seen before.
And now we are all supposed to follow, hand in hand?
Obama arrives at the White House, shiny and new, with the same clown car Congress that W just left.
In America, we say Money Talks and BS walks. Obama's $700 million talked, let's see if he can walk the walk.
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"There is a promise,by Obama,to sign the Freedom of Choice Act, This law,already passed by the Congress and the Senate is ready to sign by Obama. It will effectively cancel out all efforts made by the Right to Life advocates that have been effected since 1973." - RobertLaity
I didn't know about that! It's really great news! Thanks for making me feel even happier about his win!
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Oh for GOD'S SAKE, people.
Justin used the word 'fearsome' in an IRONIC SENSE.
Don't argue, he just did. If you can't see that, then you are irony-impaired.
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Man the Kool aid's great.
"Great Job", to Obama.
"Great job" ,to those americans that stood firm against the "other" america .
Now All that say all I do is slag off America. Listen up
"God Bless America"
I knew Obama would win had" faith" in the american people not to live up to the ideals the republicans were promoting.
To reject the policies of trickle down.
And america did not let me down( though numbers were a little less overwhelming than I wished for).
So what if the senate is not over the veto number- matters little now there is a smart president.
Mc Cain , Gracious, good on him, I think he finally got so fed up with the racists he was happy to concede.
Next time cynics Don't keep saying it cannot be done, and change can't happen.
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Ed, 80, Sam, British et al:
I rest content :)
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I came to america 8 years ago.
Finally I reached America
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Did anyone see the excellent hour-long piece on The Unseen Alastair Cooke? Well worth the effort.
Peace and a renewed America
ed
P.S. Oh, and thanks to Justin for all the blogs.
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#151
MMM. I had hoped that this idrivel that you are parroting would somehow go away now that the mud-slingers have slung themselves out of the race, but apparently not. I hate to tell you this, but Barak Obama's mother was born in the United States. All this smoke and mirrors, gloom and doom...it's what defeated your candidate.
I hope that you can get over your irrational fears and that we can quit this silly bickering and get down to the real work that it will take to pull this country up by the bootstraps and have it walk the path to peace and prosperity. I think you will be surprised by Barack Obama, and if you had only listened to him instead of Rush Limbaugh, you would feel better about the fact that the candidate you support was not the one chosen by the majority of us.
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mmarkjm wrote: "So how is it different when 96% of Blacks vote for Obama nothing is said? "
Let me explain one more time: Most American blacks live in circumstances that would make it only logical for them to support a man with Obama's ideas, no matter what his skin colour is. Nothing racist about that.
Apart from that, no white person should ever make remarks like that, because basically we have no idea. The amount of destruction of black society by centuries of slavery, oppression and social neglect by a downright racist or at least largely indifferent white population can hardly be underestimated. Complaining that their voting for one of their own is just as 'racist' as white people refusing to vote for a black man (because that is what it is actually about), proves only that you have no sense of history at all.
That being said, I think last night was the first time since the summer of 1969 that I felt really positive about America. We'll have to wait and see what the Obama presidency will bring, but so far he has struck me as the most intelligent and charismatic American leader I have seen in my half century on this planet.
And I have to say that McCain was most gracious in his concession speech. I couldn't help but think that deep down, even he was glad that Obama'd won.
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"It also demonstated graphically that, collectively, Canadian women have 'attitude' about the size of most of their over-generous backsides, and says much about the state of their happiness."
That seems a bit of a silly thing to say. What has the size of a woman's bottom got to do with her political views? As a student of both the female mind and the female anatomy I have never been able to discern any correlation between the two.
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Obama's victory although incredibly positive on a number of levels, has only been possible thanks to the large donors including hedge-fund managers that financed his campaign. These powerful interests will have enough leverage over him to ensure that the social and economic changes promised during the campaign, are likely to remain just that. Promises
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125. At 1:50pm on 05 Nov 2008, RobertLaity wrote:
a pile of horse crap.
get off the issue of morality.
Election over.
Abortion not as important as competence.
Get a lolly
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ffrey63@114
I fully agree with you that Obama will have no need to placate the right; and since he needs the people he's mobilised to stay engaged, he would be politically foolish to do so beyond a few token appointments. It's really, really, really GREAT. The US right are a bunch of arrogant, ignorant, often corrupt bigots, who have enormously damaged their country and the world. Good riddance to bad rubbish, as we Brits put it.
neil_a2@115
I thank you for providing me with yet another good laugh, at your expense.
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From a 4th generation Montanan who lives in a long-time conservative and largely Republican state, the fact that Obama nearly won in Montana is a strong indicator that the times are changing - and long overdue. In spite of the right wing Bible thumpers and right-to-bear arms radicals, more and more of us are opening our minds to broader issues in the US and across the world. It's taking time, but we're slowly getting there. We look forward to having a President who can lead us in the right direction of working progressively with the rest of the world as well as addressing the issues of more than just the upper class elitists and ultra-conservatives who we've lazily allowed to overly-influence this country. Cheers to all of you for your patience with the US and your support of our new direction. It make take awhile, but at least we've taken a big first step!
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I think Obama should now be kept well out of rifle range , or failing that , be given a bullet proof glass case - Pope mobile style.. after all there are a lot of losers out there who believe in huntin' , shootin' and fishin'..
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"with a voting record that is at once highly opprtunistic and highly partisan. "
By the standard definition of these words, I don't think that is logically possible. You sound confused to me.
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"Nationalism - which currently holds China together - will not long outlive exposure to foreign cultures."
Then the same can be said for America surely, were it to open itself up to foreign cultures - which it steadfastedly refuses to do?
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Sarah Palin is no challenge. Fearsome, yes. She frightens me to no end. I'm hoping Obama will go 2 terms.
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143/icetoyoa
"What most people on this blog do not understand, is that Palin is a mobilizer of people."
Almost got it... Palin is a mobilizer of HER people.
Unless she learns to reach out beyond the parts of America she can see is real, she cannot win. If an underperforming Bush can get a second term, a (hypothetical) underperforming Obama can too.
The demographics of the USA will not change over the next four years, the cities will not flood with conservatives. If anything, liberal constituencies are breeding and immigrating faster and gradually building up a presence in the midwest and south.
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"I am happy for all black people,but sadly, Obama has been handed a poisoned chalice. What, with the US economy in the tank, wars on two fronts, crippling national debt..."
Yes, and well put. It's going to require very well-thought out policies and excellent salesmanship for him not to be made the scapegoat for a host of problems he's inherited.
In truth, we face defeat now or defeat later in Afghanistan, and an unsatisfactory outcome now or an unsatisfactory outcome later in Iraq. If we were smart, we'd save ourselves blood and money and leave both fast. But if Obama did that, the chances of him being seen as a typical lily-livered liberal are outstanding. And yet I would still say it's his best choice...
I'm actually less worried about the economy. We'll go through a sharp "bust" phase, and probably pick up pretty fast. As long as we get the budget deficity under control, things may be okay.
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145
true sort of maybe,
still could just be the brits are more "up front" and honest about themselves and their attitudes.
The rate of inter-racial marriage may be an indicator.
British Punks beating up "skinheads" that were racists.
Skin head against "skin head" depending on the laces.
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Hmmmm Sarah Palin. She definitely has a future, but she has a lot to learn. There is no doubt that she has political charisma, that 'she's like us' appeal, not unlike Ronald Reagan. And yes she does have some experience, she has political acumen, and she is a governor. She also holds values that do appeal to a large section of the American public. However, to even contemplate a future as president she would have to demonstrate a sound grasp of foreign affairs, she would also have to work out how to reach out to moderates who differ on social issue. She would have to unite the republican party with a renewed message, and show some sophistication to go alongside her folksy charm. I think she learns quickly, but how quick. Well as someone above suggested, perhaps the first step is to run for the senate. A spell in Washington would be the ideal place to learn , and start to build the political power base that she will need if she is to have any chance. If she could unite the GOP with a coherent message that has some appeal to moderates (not an easy task) then she will have gone a long way to proving that she may have what it takes to run for POTUS. I have ny doubts, but I think it would be unwise to write her off. She's a rookie, but one with promise.
In the meantime lets wish Barack Obama success, and hope that the next 4 years are good ones for America (and the rest of the world)
Btw: All through this campaign I have been thinking about slogan 'yes we can' as just that , a slogan. This morning, however, I realized just how brillantly it sums up America: optomistic, forward looking, the refusal of defeat, and Hope. Yes we can!
You sure can America, God bless.
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Form many of the comments today I suspect the Prozac shipment didn't arrive for some . Lots of weird comments from some very disappointed and cynical people .
Many believe that the good ship USA is sailing into unchartered waters with a captain that they just cant accept . Don't worry we will take them too on our journey as we are in the same boat together even if some cannot grasp it .
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115. At 1:20pm on 05 Nov 2008, neil_a2 wrote:
Obama thanks you for the support.
Pelosi thanks you for the rubber stamp.
Reid thanks you but does not know why.
Osama thanks you for the chance to regroup.
Putin thanks you for the newbee.
I thank you for no longer being responsible to pay my mortgage, pay a doctor, being a citizen, or otherwise provide for myself or my family.
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were you one of those Booing mc cain.
Hey Chillo
Palin is not intelligent.
no more than any low grade student.
She is a cheerleader and not the smartest one either.
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At the end of the victory speech, I saw a guy holding up a message saying, "Why wait, evict Bush now!"
And I said, "true, true" and laughed out loud.
As for Sarah, one is absolutely right to say that grizzly should do the justice once she goes back to Alaska. Wolves and Polar bear should help out grizzlies.
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"What most people on this blog do not understand, is that Palin is a mobilizer of people
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that's the problem Icehead. she mobalises racists.
that is why we HATE her.
Go Obama
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Who wants to predict that in four years time the Republican riposte to Obama's mantra of "Yes we can" will be "Oh no you di'int!"
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160. At 3:00pm on 05 Nov 2008, jimigorilla wrote:
mmarkjm wrote: "So how is it different when 96% of Blacks vote for Obama nothing is said? "
Let me explain one more time: Most American blacks live in circumstances that would make it only logical for them to support a man with Obama's ideas, no matter what his skin colour is. Nothing racist about that.
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yea, I voted for obama and I'm white.
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"Fearsome challenge of Sarah Palin...." Yes I am sure the guns 'n religion crowd are relishing the thought of grooming her for 2012. I think people like Palin belong in a pulpit so they can preach about being anti-this, anti-that.
As for me I am just proud that America has proved to be a nation of decent souls!
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Just to add that the most embarrassing part of last night's coverage was that [deleted and inadequate expleteve] lump who used to be the official face of the USA at the UN - Yukkkk!
Peace and Good Riddance!
ed
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152. At 2:53pm on 05 Nov 2008, jjlandry6a wrote:
It is a great day, one of the last barriers has been broken. We start the day knowing that Race is not a barrier to the Greatest, yet toughest job in the world.
But, Gender still is.
But, the day also started with Anti-Gay amendements passing in at least two states, possibly 3, the market lower, no real power change in the Congress and Russia sounding like the old Cold War USSR, moving missles into the Baltic.
While Obama was civil, his minions were not. From the blogs to the PACs, there was more hate and venom spewed, at a level I have never seen before.
And now we are all supposed to follow, hand in hand?
Obama arrives at the White House, shiny and new, with the same clown car Congress that W just left.
In America, we say Money Talks and BS walks. Obama's $700 million talked, let's see if he can walk the walk.
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well twist yourself around creating lateral movement.
* years of being called traitors and unpatriotic, not american.
shut up go get a lolly
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Winning Democrat supporters, who still have a bone to pick with various adversaries..
Please be a little more magnanimous in celebrating victory, and show a little more composure than some of you are now doing....
Those you malign were / are just singing a different song from the same hymnbook that unfortunately did not fit the music of the moment. For their part, their ideas added to the debate in exercising all demons and worries for the man on the fence to make up his mind and judge the pros and cons of both parties.
Despite being like the the fox, hounded by the chasing pack, many stood their ground and did not flee the field as they could have done. My compliments to them, irrespective of their sometimes tangential ideas and values. Perhaps some are meant to join groups and follow a leader licking backsides along the way, while others walk a lonelier path. Tomorrow you or I may be the fox , and when we are caught by the short and curlies and cry uncle, we would hope that our admission of defeat will prevent more bloodletting too.
War is war and politics is a kind of war. America had one un-"civil" war as did the UK. Can we be civil to each other now during the peace?. In 2+ more years this saga starts again!
The circus is over. Tomorrow or the next day the big top will be taken down and move on to the next venue.
We have been the clowns and the performing animals and the only one to remain unscathed has been Justin- the
ringmaster:- always there to gee-up the crowd to make it the greatest show on earth, so that the audience of readers and bloggers is not let down.
Obama got the prize as best high-wire act, but the supporting acts from the end of 2007 until the present day should not be forgotten, having played their part for our enjoyment too.
I wish you all well and would like to thank Justin, and all the core bloggers who have educated me in American politics.
A special thanks to Ed and David_C who with great wisdom have made it very enjoyable, and easier to participate via their technical know-how.
wma
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Afterall, if a black man can become the president, why not a woman.
what. If a black man can become president.
how absurd , never happen. not here in the US at least.;)
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As a Brit who has followed this election since the first Presidential Exploratory Commitees were set up in January 2007, I have to say I was overwhelmed with a great feeling of witnessing history when the election was called for Barack Obama.
Congratulations are due Barack Obama for a superb and disciplined campaign. I am certain he will be marked as one of the great American Presidents. America's best years lie ahead.
Congratulations are also due Justin Webb on the excellent way in which he has covered this historic election in the course of his reports and on this blog. I hope you will go through all your blog entries and produce a good book about this election as I have enjoyed reading every one of your articles. You weren't quite right when you guessed Senator McCain would be elected the next President a year ago but one cannot expect to get everything right. A great blog Mr. Webb! Well done!!
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113 roplop
Typical of Democrat/left-wing intolerance we've witnessed over the last few months!
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well a few months eh, we'll just forget 8 years of calling us dems traitors and worse.
Now you make me want to be ungracious.
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
You lost
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Ref #109 The Knotting Hill Hammer
Well, Knotting Hill Hammer, Obama is indeed a very different man, and one to whom you and evidently a lot of others haven't been listening too attentively, taking notice of associations (or not caring), inexperience in a leadership role, and conduct that has demonstrated little concern for the truth.
To the discerning and those concerned about integrity, these things say a great deal about a person's character and fitness for such high office, but apparently to mindless masses and the likes of Oprah Winfrey who evidently place little importance on depth of character and to whom frivilous notions are considered
'values', this means little.
Thrilling sound-bites not substance has captured shallow minds hungry for change, but not too much thought seems to have gone into the failed socialist route that seems high on the agenda.
From an outsiders perspective, while Bush has in many respects been a dismal failure, time will show us where Obama and his Democrats take the U.S., but it says a great deal that the dismal likes of Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reed will have a huge amount of input. With that in mind I predict that the U.S. is now set on a path that in time it will come to deeply regret.
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HATE, HATE, HATE...on both sides. You children still don't get it.
You Lefts and Rights go on outside and play now. We grown ups will handle things.
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95. At 12:23pm on 05 Nov 2008, robloop wrote:
Gee, Justin, you are really have access to this man's mind today, don't you! In fact I think this man will step by step go with his radical left instincts, supported with relish by Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reed with whose instincts I have nothing but contempt.
Evidently 51% of Americans weren't taking heed of many things Obama said, or of his actions that told much about his mindset, and for that, in time, they will reap the consequences.
Many years ago I travelled to the U.S. on business. The nation was in a state of depression after the humiliation inflicted on it not only by Iran holding hostage for more than a year its embassy staff in Teheran, but primarily because of its own impotence to do anything about it under the pathetically weak leadership of Jimmy Carter (a circumstance very quickly cured by Ronald Reagan).
Over the next few years I now expect that same impotence to return in a nation that has largely abandoned the character and values that made it great and now very stupidly imagines socialism will cure its ills.
----------- Gee I think you're another Fake.
Where you from really?
Many years ago means you know nothing of the US .
A bit like mostly erroneous knowledge of the UK.
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Petrol is dropping, probably under $2 a gallon in my area by the weekend.
Grocery prices are also dropping, slowly, but dropping.
People who should not have bought a house, or did not protect themselves or who bought an Ipod rather than a Savings Bond, are getting their comeuppance. And existing home sales are growing and people are getting into homes.
The multitude of overpriced specialty stores are thinning out, so are overpriced coffee stores.
We have no rationing, no shortages and an unemployment rate of under 7%.
We have a war that, even though it is of questionable merit and cost, is getting within 3 to 4 years of ending. It took Nixon 6 years to end the war Kennedy and Johnson started.
The world has had limited terror attacks in the last couple of year. Although, wars based on drugs or civil wars are increasing in less civilized areas.
The "meltdown" or "crisis" is nothing more than NewSpeak.
Double Plus Ungood
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Well, 2 great speeches. I hope that those who poured vitriol on McCain's character can acknowledge he is not as they wished to portray him. Some here already have. He so clearly does believe in America First (meaning before self or party). He went well beyond what he had to when acknowledging defeat. Instead he lauded Obama's - and the electors' - victory.
On Obama's part, I liked the bi-partisan aspects of his speech in particular (it was this record McCain had that appealed to me). I should also acknowledge what his election means to so many disadvantaged people around the country, and indeed the world. The US is the land of opportunity and this surely demonstrates it better than anything else could. Good luck, Barack.
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6. At 07:56am on 05 Nov 2008, SamTyler1969 wrote:
#3 Nessie,
Ay, there's the rub. If she does then the Republicans become the party of the few, an ever more strident minority.
For our nations sake I hope this does not come to be.
Sad Sam
***********************************
Nonsense Sam
Obama only beat McCain in the Popular vote by 6%........... There is still 55 1/2 million Americans who voted McCain, the nation is still divided into two, it would not take much to have those 7 million flip back to Republican. YOu only need 4 years of Obama disaster, and that is more realistic than him being a storming success.
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"Yet here again, we see posting after posting of similar baseless and shameful disparagement. And these are Obama supporters! Need I say more! You reap what you sow."
Fake.
you must have been living on mars.
did you hear the word terrorist, unpatriotic traitor, from any one but me.
Most were polite it was you're fellow Goppers that started. Associating with terrorist.
The rubbish most of which was libellous that we have heard on this blog from the right is incredible.
the world taken to the brink by the right is incredible.
8 years of being called names.
8 years of some people being locked up for protesting .
8 years of enviromental protester being treated like terrorists, by people that terrorise the whole world. the neoCONs.The right
Waterman I respect your wish and will leave it there.
but "Right ain't right"
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This is indeed a thrilling day! The Republicans worked hard to define themselves as the party of hate and division. If you look at the blogs entries on McCain's facebook page, 1000000 people for McCain, you will see what I mean. It's full of truly nasty and racist comments. But , if you go to Obama's page on Facebook, you will see posts full of hope, promise and willingness to work towards a common goal for all Americans. The contrast is stark.
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#143
Ice,
You are correct, Sarah Palin does mobilize folks. She mobilizes them on both sides because she represents everything that the country has just rejected:
- Economically incompetent
- Culturally intolerant
- Intellectually ignorant
- Personally hypocritical
This turns independents and moderate Republicans off and drives Democrats into a frenzy of fundraising and getting the troops out. I personally would like to see her go back to Alaska and grow her career by replacing Republicans who get caught with their hand in the till. If she does that then the party has a chance to rebuild around a broad coalition. If she stays in the limelight she will help drag the party to be the mouthpiece of the religious right, and doom the Republicans to being a party of the deep South only.
And that would be bad for all of us.
Independent Sam
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Let's be clear as to why McCain chose Palin as his running mate. It was simply an effort to ensure the GOP didn't get totally trounced on Election Day. They knew they could not win but what they feared was being wiped out (electorally).
Palin achieved what was required of her. She energized the right wing of her party to turnout and vote. If McCain had chosen a moderate they would have stayed home and McCain would have a lost even more badly than he did. As it stands they can say they held most of the States Bush won 4 years ago and come 2012 it won't look like an insurmountable task to win (which it would have done if they had lost States like Georgia, SC, Texas etc).
She did her job but that doesn't mean she is the right person to lead the Republicans in 2012 (obviously she isn't as she cannot possibly deliver moderate voters unless Obama turns out to a complete disaster).
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I know this wasn't about race, but.... Some conservatives say it is "liberal guilt" that contributed. I'm a a liberal and I have no feelings of guilt in this area. My parents brought us up to stand for what was right.
My father was a white southerner, born in North Carolina, raised in Virginia. He stepped away from his roots and joined the Civil Rights movement because these were real issues and there was real work to be done. He marched in Alabama with Martin Luther King Jr.
I wish he could be sharing this with us. Virginia voting for a black man and North Carolina too close to call (former slave states, for those who don't know the history).
The real lesson here is that America and her constitution are about change. We get it wrong a lot, but we can always hope to reinvent ourselves. This time we stepped forward.
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13
McCain's concession speech sounded to me almost as though it was an apology for letting himself be dragged into it. But I really do wonder if it might be too late now.
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seemed that way,about being dragged in.
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I don't seem to understand why europe wants the u.s to be like them. Liberalism is a mental disorder. I have seen your so called military in action sad so sad even your so called SAS is not even close to what they use to be.That is a true shame! Now america has elected a new president that wants change just like germany in 1933 that was a huge mistake don't you brits think so?
Conservatism is not dead. Europe of all people know that americans are always up for a good fight. Don't ever count us out.
Conservatives tried to warn americans not to be fooled by labels but to study the actual policies of political animals, all of whom are known by their ability to camouflage their tue intentions.
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First I must say what a happy day this is to be an American. I am only 19 years old, much too young to have witnessed Martin Luther King. This is the first time I have felt this kind of pride. To be in Grant Park with all those thousands of people - I'm choking up just thinking of it. People of all colors. Of all religions. Of all ethnicities. I can only hope that THIS is the America that wins out over the coming years.
As many seem to fear, and rightfully so, Obama may struggle to make any important changes. He is left with an economy in shambles, destroyed foreign relations, and a plethora of other failed policies of the last eight years. It is not just the last eight years though. It is Eisenhower's economic policy; produce more and more and more and try to sell it. It is Vietnam. It is all we have done to South America, to Indonesia, to the Middle East. We like to think of ourselves as the beacon of light. Great rhetoric sure but we have not at all lived up to that label.
As a young American though, there is hope that America is shifting. As a white American that grew up in a black area, I have love for all my black brothers and sisters. I have love for every person on the face of this earth. We are all one people, and I hope that it is this mentality that wins out. I will be fighting for it.
We all possess a desire for self preservation. Sometimes this desire manifests itself singularly through greed (Bush, Mugabe ect.) But it can also shine through communally, for the greater good (MLK, Gandhi). In a world that is physically deteorating, in a world where inequality and conflicts have always existed, this sense of community needs to prevail.
Obama may struggle, but his ability to mobilize this country has been truly incredible. His campaign collected email addresses and cell phone numbers. These could be used over the next four years to gather our opinions and thoughts. A government truly run by the people? Who knows? We have proven today that anything can happen.
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Whether or not Sarah Palin is not a question we can really answer today. It would be two years before anyone knows with any certainty.
If in 2010 the President-elects' party is still strong then there will not be many challengers. Certainly the younger Republican stars would be reluctant to run and would prefer to wait until 2016.
Sarah Palin might not have the luxury of waiting till then and 2012 might be her roll of the dice. But the trouble with Sarah Palin is can she get the 'indie' vote? She is considered a lurch to the right-something that was rejected overwhelming this time. Palin would need to find a way to brand her thinking as progressive and different. She also must mend bridges with the GOP campaign staffers and senior politicians who she upset when she went 'rogue' and stopped listening to advice. There are a lot of people within the GOP that she has upset.
Finally, to those people who are complaining bitterly about the result. We live in a democracy founded by our Founding Fathers who gave us this electoral system. It may not be perfect, but such is life.
I happily cast my vote for a 'third' candidate and waited to find out for whom the rest of the country had voted. I, obviously, do not agree with the majority of the voters. But I am humble enough to respect the virtues of democracy and accept the will of the people. It is not sufficient for people to continue complaining and tell everyone the majority of people got it wrong. No, I and all those that voted for another candidate were wrong, but we were also right to cast our votes for 'our' candidate.
A democracy means you might not like the result but you have to respect the result. The majority of the electorate elected President Obama to be President-elect under the rules and laws of the United States of America.
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Just wanted to say I've enjoyed reading the posts of the many contributors of this blog. I know that I will leave a little bit wiser.
I would like to express my gratitude with a smile.
:)
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Sarah Palin fearsome! I think the results last night proved that America does not want her hate-filled politics. Her comments about liking to go to the "Patriotic parts of America" (meaning white rural parts of America) was so offensive. Last night when I saw Barack speaking to the very diverse crowd... I thought: this is the real America. If you notice at the McCain/Palin rally last night it looked like a country club event... there was no diversity whasoever...there is the difference. Palin only appeals to the Republican base and that is it! She will go bak to Alaska and hunt moose! All I can say is after last night, I am proud to be an American again.
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Only in America!
How to become president of the U.S.
Accomplish nothing as a Senator.
Associate with radical clergy and terrorists
Learn how to "read" a speech.
Let's see how he comes through with all the campaign promises now that he and his Democratic losers control both the House and Senate.
My guess...it will never happen
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singing hannah:
"Without wanting to sound patronising, I'd like to thank Americans for taking a big step and doing the right thing. Hopefully the new president will help the world come together a bit more instead of being driven apart by reckless hatred."
I'm afraid your comments do come across as extremely patronzinng.
As for "reckless hatred", that is by no means unique to Americans. It is very important you and the citizens of your own nation also do the right thing. Projecting everything on to Amercians - including hatred - is not helpful.
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The debt is the only thing I see as a real problem with the Bush years. I wish everything could have been done and maintained some fiscal responsibility.
The subprime is hands down on the heads of the dems. we are founded and live in a world where assets are commoditized and traded. Mortgages have been moved around forever. When the socialist democrats started forcing banks to give loans to those that could not afford them they screwed with the system. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac at the urging of the Dems in the congress pushed these and because they were now guaranteed moved them from a poor rating to a A+ rating.
These were then bought and sold as an A rated commodity because and Frank and Dodd stated these are the "safest loans you can make"
So the current crash has nothing to do with Bush and/or McCain as except maybe they did not push hard enough to stop it. They did push 3 seperate times to get legislation through but the banking committee in congress stopped them and then when the Dems took over congress they flushed them.
So some of what Obama is inheriting was brought on by himself (yep he was involved with pushing legislation for the subprimes) and the other democrats in congress.
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Will it be the Black House now?
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I do find Justin Webb's perception of Obama as being "too midwestern" to "stick it to the right" to be extremely strange.
Mr. Webb still has to work at grasping the patterns of American life. Obama is very far left and not in any sense a centrist.
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In the front page story, Justin is quoted as saying: "Americans have made two fundamental statements about themselves - that they are profoundly unhappy with the status quo, and that they are slamming the door on the country's racial past."
It is a fundamental journalistic error to describe the electorate as a single entity. It is not. It is a collection of individuals and opinions that simply culminate statistically to give a result. And even if you believe that a huge number of people hold this singular position, then you are actually still only talking about a little over half of the electorate.
Finally, PLEASE - as a basic journalistic requirement - hold up a mirror to all statements about race: In fact race DID play a huge part in this election with well over 90% of all black voters backing Obama. If over 90% of white voters had backed the white candidate that would have been described as evidence of racism.
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"The "meltdown" or "crisis" is nothing more than NewSpeak." - jjlandry6a
You are completely out of touch with reality. An estimated $15 trillion has been wiped off asset values, and without internationally coordinated emergency measures credit and therefore commerce would have seized up completely.
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191 seanspa: agreed
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Dana Perino, the White House spokesperson, was blown off by the news media last night. After waiting for several minutes to address the media, she was given the cold shoulder as the media did not wish to waste its time for the current President's opinion of the ongoing vote count.
Such an incident says a lot for George W. Bush's legacy.
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patsy620: Thank you, and I agree with your comments, particularly with regard to intolerance and hate. Far too much of it about.
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175. At 3:26pm on 05 Nov 2008, jacksforge wrote:
"Pelosi thanks you for the rubber stamp."
Yes that's how it works over here in the USA. We elect our officials and they lead us. Not that they shouldn't listen to us (some might), but I do not need the Republicans messing with my choice--taking away my "rubber stamp". I elected Lynn Woolsey to the House, and she will stand with Pelosi and make sweeping changes. I am all for that.
Those who speak now of "Checks and Balances" need to read the constitution. The balance is not maintained by political parties but branches of government, the system that the Bush administration has been subverting since the Supreme Court appointed him. For now the sentiment of the people is to the left, and the discussion will be on that end of the spectrum. This is a great nation with great foundations. Have faith.
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197 Please - "a step forward."
He was voted in because he recieved a VAST majority of the black vote and that is the only reason.
He is a good speaker and many others drank the kool aide but the reason for him winning are those on welfare and those that believe through Obama they will have a better life without putting any effort in themselves.
There is plenty of opportunity in the US if you get an education and raise your children - to go to school, respect others and have some personal, social and moral responsibilities.
Just to live so the government will give you your welfare check is unacceptable but a common practice. Many believe that they will suddenly have a great job and it will be all sunny and bright. That will last about 2 days until they realize - oh shit I have to work - welfare was easier than working and having to get up each day and think and shit. Obama is promoting that these unqualified people are either going get this great job which they are unqualified/unmotivated for or that their welfare check will be bigger.
Great - guess I will work harder so I can support a couple more leaches on society.
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Ref 130 StephenDerry
Stephen, seeing that it is almost impossible to penetrate your dense cranial fog, I should once again make it clear that I am not American, don't watch Fox News, don't subscribe to conservative blogs, don't vote Republican, don't belong to your electoral minority, but through various circumstances know your country very well - and recognize a over-emotional and mindless twit when I read his words. So don't waste your time hurling pathetic insults. I take it from whence it comes and it's like water off a duck's back.
The fact is, not much thought has gone into the character of the man you have chosen to be President, and in time you are going to pay the price for the shallowness that has accompanied this decision.
In my opinion, in view of America's racist past, the election of Obama could do a great amount to expatiate that part. That said, what a pity you couldn't have found a better candidate!
And by the way, Obama is NOT black. He's mixed race. Just in case you hadn't noticed, his mother was white. Why is it that in America where a mixed race union occurs, a white mother's all important contribution to a child's existence counts for nothing?
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You can scare all of the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time, but you can't scare all of the people all of the time.
Maybe we can hope for some lessening of negative campaigning.
My post about Sarah Palin (173): hard to see it happening though : )
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jacksforge:
"And america did not let me down"
So glad you're happy. We do aim to please.
"( though numbers were a little less overwhelming than I wished for)."
Awfully sorry about that. We'll try even harder to make you happy next time.
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stevedaytona@196,
You have an arguable point there. I'm sure the Republican establishment did say to McCain, in effect, "Pick a hardliner to bring the base out, or we'll cut you loose", but I think they did so still hoping to win, at the same time having McCain's successor lined up for 4 years time (or less), given his age. It was the financial crash that made Obama's victory all but certain, and I don't believe they knew that was coming; if they had, they would not have frozen like a deer in the headlights when it did.
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nick gotts:
"I fully agree with you that Obama will have no need to placate the right; and since he needs the people he's mobilised to stay engaged, he would be politically foolish to do so beyond a few token appointments. It's really, really, really GREAT. The US right are a bunch of arrogant, ignorant, often corrupt bigots, who have enormously damaged their country and the world. Good riddance to bad rubbish, as we Brits put it."
The problem, of course, is: How do you live with people who are not exactly like you?
This post is filled with a litany of insults directed at those who dare to question or diagree. Is there a place in your way of thinking for tolerance?
It is not possible to live in a civilized society without it.
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bluepaddy13 wrote:
Obama only beat McCain in the Popular vote by 6%........... There is still 55 1/2 million Americans who voted McCain, the nation is still divided into two, it would not take much to have those 7 million flip back to Republican. YOu only need 4 years of Obama disaster, and that is more realistic than him being a storming success.
You forget that in 4 years time the Republicans won't be able to paint Obama as:
a) inexperienced
b) a Muslim
c) a Socialist
d) a Communist
e) all of the above
The Republicans ran a campaign based on fear, if those fears are not realised then Obama will already be in a strong position. If he is actually a good President then he would be in a very strong position.
And a 6% lead is probably the highest winning margin for 20 years or more.
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Latest silly season rumour - Bill (or Hillary?) Clinton to be next US Ambassador to the Court of St. James's.
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199 rager5:
'Now america has elected a new president that wants change just like germany in 1933 that was a huge mistake don't you brits think so?'
Comments like that are reprehensible!
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Congratulations, USA !
Thank god it's over ... ;)
The freakish Palin episode leaves a bad taste, but I assume we won't ever hear from her again .
Does she have any support in the GOP, any at all ?
She's a rotten apple now, and tacky populism and looks get one only that far.
I very much doubt she has what it takes to reinvent herself, much less convince anyone to give her another shot.
Remember, Bush II was spoon-fed all the way to president by a powerful dynasty, had influential backers all his life.
Palin had her 5 minutes of fame, by sheer luck, and nothing and nobody to back her up.
She's gone.
___
Fritz K.
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188 patsy you have been a patsy.
all even and that , others, are childish.
You voted for a grinning barbie with no skill qualification experience.
A woman who could have taken this country to war because she was confuse.
Who thought research on fruit flies a waste of time(wish she would volunteer to have her nerves ripped out of her body).
Someone with NO understanding of science despite supposedly being brought up by a science teacher.
Someone with no understanding of diplomacy.
No virtues.
Voting for Palin was childish
time for you're lolly
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rager5 wrote:
I don't seem to understand why europe wants the u.s to be like them. Liberalism is a mental disorder.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
Now to me that sounds like a blueprint for a Liberal soceity.
Liberalism is the concept that each person should have equal opportunites and the freedom to make the choices that are right for them.
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TO # 201, tigermilkboy
Finally, an intelligent post.
DITTO FOR THE MOST PART.
On Palin and mending the rift with GOP...
Don't forget that Romney was the GOP preferred and THE PEOPLE SPOKE through their amendment privilege called voting.
The same thing applied with the DNC. They wanted Hillary until the people spoke.
Eliminate Electoral College and only four states will be visited by candidates because the rest of us wouldn't matter. Without representation from Nebraska, South Dakota, Idaho or Hawaii, those four states would tell the rest of us how to live our lives. Obviously for those who live in those prominent states probably don't care about middle America.
Just think about how Hawaii and Alaska feel, way out there and completely forgotten. By the way, how did Hawaii vote? I don't remember seeing their results.
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201: yep! and 202: : ) and 209: yeh, that's very irritating ... , am thinking about your last para ...
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Can I be the first to say what a disappointment Obama has been as president?
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191. At 3:55pm on 05 Nov 2008, seanspa wrote:
Well, 2 great speeches. I hope that those who poured vitriol on McCain's character can acknowledge he is not as they wished to portray him.
I have and will say it again.
way back when Hillary was up I was in for McCain.
I think today he is saying"cindy that was close,I almost lost it for a while but I'm back"
Now Gop and pundits.
consider this(never to happen)
Maybe 4 years, Obama not doing well,---- Mc Cain as McCain without Palin, without Joe Lieberman.
Not sara the divider.
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Wow, some amazingly bitter losers posting today.
Some people persist in their insults to the intelligence of anyone who voted differently than they themselves did.
I'm a moderate Republican who voted for Obama because I didn't like McCain's proposals on taxes and healthcare, didn't like his choice of a far-right and anti-intellectual VP, and didn't want to continue with previous trends in foreign policy.
Notice McCain is the reason I didn't vote for McCain.
Also notice that at no time did I mention I voted for Obama because he's going to keep me out of forclosure (I'm making my payments just fine, thank you), because he's going to give me big welfare checks (I have a job, thank you again), because he's going to give us all free healthcare (though having experienced British care while living there, I certainly wouldn't object), because he is the messiah (I'm not religious, thanks), or because I'm black (I'm not).
Now can you just get over it and pull together with everyone else to try to improve the circumstances of our nation and our world?
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Aww diddums dog,
"Great - guess I will work harder so I can support a couple more leaches on society."
--------------------------
Good, I'll have a cup of tea while you are at it.
Oh and take the dog out. It seems to be farting.
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214
I like your spirit
wish you had been here earlier.
I think you got the wrong guy though.
Those words were quoted from the
"115. At 1:20pm on 05 Nov 2008, neil_a2 wrote:
Obama thanks you for the support.
Pelosi thanks you for the rubber stamp.
Reid thanks you but does not know why.
Osama thanks you for the chance to regroup.
Putin thanks you for the newbee.
I thank you for no longer being responsible to pay my mortgage, pay a doctor, being a citizen, or otherwise provide for myself or my family."
--------------------------
My response was to neil-a2.
it was
"were you one of those Booing mc cain.
Hey Chillo
Palin is not intelligent.
no more than any low grade student.
She is a cheerleader and not the smartest one either."
So I agree with you, maybe,not sure really.
Still have a nice O day.
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I think that Obama will not stretch America as he will his party. Though perhaps to early to call I can see President Obama (damn that feels nice to type) moving the Dems to the center and, as a result, the rest of America slightly to the left. His effect will be similar, if in an opposite direction of, President Regan.
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NEW AILMENT that has swept the world
It may be too late but hopefully a cure can be found soon
Mentally challenged individuals appear to be suffering from a recently described disorder OBAMITIS.
This condition is characterized by delusions of grandeur which include a phobia of work and a severe allergic reaction to getting an education.
It seems to run in families (inbred or not) and may involve some genetic damage which causes the children to always utter the first word "WELFARE".
Another major symptom is the delusion of a MESSIAH coming to provide for all their physical, spiritual and other basic needs.
Curiously this messiah has very enviable qualifications which include having mentors who have taught him the ways of socialism and beyond (Frank Marshal Davis, Saul Alinsky), terrorism (Bill Ayers,Bernadine Dohm), corruption (Antoin "Tony" Rezko),and prejudicism (Jeremiah Wright).
They are working on the cure for this very severe disease.
Remember the Messiah cometh and taketh. PROTECT THE FAMILY JEWELS.
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To # 207 jimigorilla
Everyone go back and read # 207.
Introducing America's Finest. A great representation of The Best Education System in the Industrialized World.
Unfortunately, I'm serious about the education this person received.
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Well, I'm one of those Florida centrist-conservatives who voted for Mr. McCain....
I am TRULY very happy for the African-American community today, and am happy that this election can help further heal race relations in my country. What's interesting to me is the misconception that Republicans are bible-thumping, gun-toting whack-jobs! Those in the Christian Coalition (the far right social conservatives) may embody this stereotype; however, most of us righties just want smaller government and reduced taxes.... Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness; it's that simple. I don't want to give anything more, but I also don't WANT TO RECEIVE ANYTHING, either. I'm the mom of a special-needs kid. I do not use "free" government programs that he qualifies for because they are GARBAGE. I do not send him to our government-run public schools because they are FAILING. Throwing more taxpayer money at mediocre programs does not cure the problem. When you remove a customer from paying directly for the services received, you lessen its effectiveness. Dems have great ideas and great visions, but they rely too much on their notion of good-intentioned government to carry out their mission. Their spending is wasteful and generally, uninspiring to people; further, it's never enough. Personal comfort levels and personal motivation are seemingly inversely proportional. The more "comfortable" you make your people with socialism, the less motivated your people become. My anscestors came to Virginia in the 17th century and worked their tails off just to sustain themselves. There was no government in place to feed them and give them healthcare. Where is the incentive to go and start my own business if I will be doubly-burdened with taxes? My grandad started his engineering business and paid less than 10% to the Federal government. 60 years later, his business is gone. Taxation to "spread the wealth" strangles small business, and loses jobs.
John McCain lost this election because of one (huge) uncontrollable factor; the collapse of the American mortgage market. PERIOD. My countrymen are too idiotic to follow the paper trail of this crisis that leads to so many Democrats in the House and Senate (Chris Dodd, Barney Frank, Maxine Waters, etc...). These Democrats hypocritically scream for more regulation on Wall Street, but as soon as Republicans started to try to regulate Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac (the second largest lending institutions in my country), they cried "racism". Fannie and Freddie were bankrupted by DEMOCRATS in my government ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hN31-nKndg8 ). It's how American politics work; the incumbent party is always to blame for any economic woes, regardless of Democrat culpability. Idiotic and unfair to Republicans, perhaps; but it's inevitable. Obama will weaken America (unfortunately for me)... If you're planning a trip to the US, just sit tight. Your dollar-to-pounds exchange rate will skyrocket in no time; just give it a few months.
If Sarah Palin can make the case for smaller government and fewer taxes, she'll win in 2012. Most Republicans are FISCAL conservatives and social moderates. Republicans do not long to cram guns and God down anyone's throat. We just don't want to pay our hard-earned dollars (soon "Ameros" under B.Obama) to big government.
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216
Roplop
you are insane.
America has looked at the character .
But you haven't.
America and the world community do not need a hot head and a cold heart.
Have fun at the BNP rally
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> the fearsome challenge of Sarah Palin
Please oh please I do hope you're right, that the wounded resentful GOP will make Palin their star for 2012 and beyond!
In a few short years, they would succeed in making the Republican party a force in American politics with about as much power and relevance as the Whigs. (FYI: The last Whig President of the US was Millard Fillmore, in 1856.)
The current version of the Republican party is a neo-Conservative mutation of a fine old tradition, one that chose to take the poisoned fruit of a "Southern strategy" in the mid-60's, to give a home to those fleeing the Democratic party after Johnson orchestrated the passage of the Civil Rights and Voting Rights laws.
America needs a real Conservative party, but that role will not go to the Republicans party unless they can purge themselves of their xenophobic elements, and reconcile their various incompatible parts.
Choosing Sarah Palin as their party leader would reduce them at best to a regional party, unable to contend seriously in national contests, leaving an opportunity for a new major party to emerge.
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Please explain:
112. At 1:03pm on 05 Nov 2008, ceocomp
This comment has been referred to the moderators.
As an American, I congratulated Obama and America for a major change in viewpoint. This election was all about being fed up with the criminals in Washington and that is a big positive.
What I also said was that both sides in this election are controlled by the same clique led by Rockefeller, Kissinger and Brzezinski and people of that character - Trilateral Commission. Also that your British elections and the elections of every major government are controlled by the same elite financial interests that create wars in order to put us further into debt and under control.
The election was a side show to keep us entertained - similar to the coliseum in the latter days of Rome.
Why is my post being censored? I am new to the BBC blogs but looks like you are similar to the NY Times - "All the news that fits we print". Say - do you suppose that ALL major media including the BBC are controlled by the same elite interests?
Censoring of the truth is answer enough to this question. I do not really expect you to print my post.
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I was going to remain silent, on the grounds that
I called everything wrong.
But, then, this morning, I discovered the battle
that is going on in the Senate. That's the battle
which is probably going to be decided in the
courts. It may all come down to less than 600
votes in Minnesota.
And, regardless, I shall be around to point out
the Democrats' flawed policies, even though
I don't think that the Republicans are any better.
As always, I pledge to ridicule the party in power.
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Justin,
Despite protestations to the contrary, you see Obama clearly. He is in fact centrist, and yes, Midwestern in outlook. If you listened to his victory speech in Chicago, you heard him send clear signals that he intends his administration to form alliances with individuals from both major political parties, including John McCain and his supporters. Obama is far too intelligent to marginalize his chances of solving the major problems facing this nation by pursuing an extremist agenda. He knows quite well that we cannot solve those problems by excluding major portions of the population. It will be interesting to observe how he creates and sustains these alliances. Expect him to have some major confrontations with members of his own political party.
Last night was victory for intelligence, reason, compassion, generosity, and balance! From our high elevation island of blue here in the southern Rockies, the view to the future looks bright indeed.
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Ignore my last post - I see that you have now published my post - number 112.
112. At 1:03pm on 05 Nov 2008, ceocomp
This comment has been referred to the moderators.
Thanks for your honesty and sincerity!
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CastawayCay wrote:
Finally, PLEASE - as a basic journalistic requirement - hold up a mirror to all statements about race: In fact race DID play a huge part in this election with well over 90% of all black voters backing Obama. If over 90% of white voters had backed the white candidate that would have been described as evidence of racism.
And then as a comparisson check how many black voters have voted for the (white) Democrat candidate in past years. I checked wikipedia for the 2004 election and 88% voted for Kerry (the Democrat candidate)
The vast majority of the black vote goes to the Democrat candidate. Now if Obama had been a Republican and over 90% of black voters had switched party to vote for him THEN that would be considered racist voting.
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# 191, thanks for the statement on McCain, he has served his country well.
I was personally touched by the story of the 106 year old woman who lived history and in her final days she witnessed one more historical moment.
Obama added... what will his daughters witness for their future.
An impressive speech.
Also noted, McCain did not tolerate "Boos"
He is a man of integrity.
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218. At 4:37pm on 05 Nov 2008, Timmmaaayyy.
oh stuff you.
So when one like me is proud of their country ,for once -deride.
OK
America is full of a bunch of racist Idiots.
A despicable nation of thieves , murderers and crooked cops .
Better
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209/CastawayCay
"If over 90% of white voters had backed the white candidate that would have been described as evidence of racism."
Unless 99% of white voters were, due to well understood historical reasons, in a lower socio-economic class, and the white candidate was promising to help them, and the black candidate was promising not to help them much. Then it would be evidence of self-interest and common sense.
Which is what practically everyone bases their vote on anyway, regardless of colour.
The "black voters vote for Obama because he's black" argument is another ***conservative urban myth***. If they voted at all previously, they voted for Kerry, Gore and Clinton (all of who, I should point out, were white), however this time around more of them actually bothered voting.
The only black people you could try and lay the racism charge at are wealthy blacks who backed Bush last time but switched to Obama, which is a tiny demographic. And I don't even think it's fair to label them racist.
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selfevidenttruths
sorry that the truth does hurt.change ,change ,change11
"The true end of satire is the amendment of vice by correction.
And he writes honestly is no more an enemy to the offender,than the physician to the patient,when he prescribes harsh remedies to an inveterate disease..."
JOHN DRYDEN,1681
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Reply to 111 That time is coming very soon!
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to Mark_WE:
I could be wrong, but I think its the widest margin in popular vote since 1964 when Johnson got elected after the Kennedy assassination.
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Pbacot, (197),
I, too am the child of Virginians and a great grandchild of slave-owners, and I was there for the "I have a dream" speech.....A great day, if a long time coming!Self-evident, Sean's Pa, 80%, Mark, Jack, Ms Marbles, Aquagal, and many many others, God Bless and
Slainte!
ed
P.S. McCain's concession was truly gracious, and will go a long way towards washing him clean after a less than honourable campaign.
Peace and the Future
ed
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216/robloop (a very strange post)
"Stephen, seeing that it is almost impossible to penetrate your dense cranial fog, I should once again make it clear that I am not American, don't watch Fox News, don't subscribe to conservative blogs, don't vote Republican, don't belong to your electoral minority, but through various circumstances know your country very well - and recognize a over-emotional and mindless twit when I read his words. So don't waste your time hurling pathetic insults. I take it from whence it comes and it's like water off a duck's back."
Where in the post to which you refer (130) have I accused you of:
1) being American
2) watching Fox News
3) subscribing to conservative blogs
4) voting Republican
5) belonging to an electoral minority
6) not knowing my country well?
I'll give you the answer (because I can see you are struggling to keep up!) - never. Perhaps you are confusing me with some other person who did accuse you of these things?
My only accusations in that post were that you have vilified Senator Obama (as you have in other posts), and that you are a hypocrite for arguing that vilification of a candidate is stupid and intolerant.
The charge of wrong, unjust and intolerant behaviour is your own against yourself, for if those who vilify Palin are guilty then those who vilify Obama as you have done are equally guilty.
I have not descended into name calling, although in noting your use of terms like "dense cranial fog" "overemotional and mindless twit" and "hurling pathetic insults," I feel that in the eyes of any objective reader you are damning yourself further. I will let them make their own minds up.
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Reply 149. You cant have read his Autobiography then?
For at the very heart of Barak Obama there is a deep-seated anti-white racism. Of course he disguised it during his brilliant campaign, but it oozes from between the lines of his autobiography, Dreams from My Father. In this he tells how he deliberately turned his back against his own multi-racial identity in order to give himself a 100% black persona.
He lives with a ‘nightmare vision’ of black powerlessness. He seethes over injustices and prejudices that he never encountered. He detests his own white grandmother when she is frightened by an aggressive black beggar. He is, in short, a true racist bigot.
“Black people have reason to hate,” says Obama.
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brewdog0530 (215),
So 100% of 20% beats 80%? And that's the only reason....Stupid!So, get started.Ignorance is a voluntary misfortune
Nicholas Ling
Peace and an end to stupidity
ed
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AND GET READ EVERYTIME SOMETHING BAD HAPPENS IN TH US BO WILL BE BLAMED.
I MEAN PRESIDENT BO .SINCE WE CAN'T USE HIS MIDDLENAME US DUMB WHITE PEOPLE
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Reply to 160. Oh you great teacher and historian you i bet you never lived in poverty so how would you know? Infact you are one of those liberals i am on about. Blinkered is the word for your foolishness. Let me say again? What a prat.
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Reply to 170.
Stephrn the cities are not Liberal thay just hate Whitey
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Re #227
I hope you were not suggesting I want the Electoral College abolishing? :-) Yes, the Electoral College has its flaws but it does create a broadly centerist-populist government and makes sure every state has its say. I certainly would not wish for a outright popular vote for President, like you say you would only see a Presidential candidate in major population hubs of CA and NY.
Whilst not perfect, I would not tamper with the Electoral College.
Hawaii voted overwhelmingly for Obama, since Obama was born in Hawaii and is broadly a Democratic state this was no surprise.
All I have to say to the people whose candidate did not win. This is a democracy! Someone had to lose. If your candidate had won, what would you be telling Obama/Democrats? The answer is 'the people have spoken and they have spoken overwhelmingly for McCain'. I might not have liked the elected President Bush administration policies but I respected the right of the people to vote for President Bush.
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# 234 apkeeley
Let's hope he can do this it would be best for this country.
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Further to my post 252, take a look at this post from robloops
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2008/11/the_cleansing.html#comment19
If that isn't an example of vilification every bit as bad as that which he hypocritically complains of in post 110, then my name's Rush Limbaugh.
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"Let's see how he comes through with all the campaign promises now that he and his Democratic losers control both the House and Senate." - trailhound
"Democratic losers" who have just won the Presidency, and clear majorities in House and Senate? This must be some unusual meaning of "loser" that I haven't come across before.
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Reply to 170
You say your in it together? You have 22,000 hangun murders a year, how can you be in it together?
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Reply to 179. Then dont moan in the future.
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241 good on you Gn R.
Stick it to them. which ever.
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AND GET READY EVERYTIME SOMETHING BAD HAPPENS IN TH US BO WILL BE BLAMED.
I MEAN PRESIDENT BO .SINCE WE CAN'T USE HIS MIDDLENAME US DUMB WHITE PEOPLE
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249. At 5:25pm on 05 Nov 2008, mmarkjm wrote:
Reply to 111 That time is coming very soon!
RUN WHITEY.
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Reply to 216.
Thats because his mother was a traitor
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235
brokenDog
What is it that makes you so racist?
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Reply to 246.
No thats Pakistan
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#12 - I think everyone is taking the future of Sarah Palin far too seriously. Let's face it, the Republican party was thrashed tonight, and she was in no small way responsible.
This depends entirely on whether the Republican party is willing to admit that its own platform is to blame for its loss. I'm not sure that it is; a few appeared to admit as much, but there are others with John Bolton's view, that the reason for the loss was that their campaign just wasn't nasty enough. I predict they'll have to suffer at least one more humiliating defeat (and maybe more) to get a clue. Look how long it took the Democrats to finally field someone who did not whine through the campaign (McGovern through Dukakis, with the exception of Carter, who won), and represent the extreme far left.
If Obama can keep his head above water and not appear weak, he can get re-elected in 2012; no one except the people who voted against him expect him to achieve everything he's set out to do in one term (and his opponents don't "expect" it either; they'll just continuously point it out). If the Republicans support Palin in '12, he'll be re-elected by a landslide.
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#16 - Americans have enough Palins without putting one in the White House. They are called cheerleaders, and you can find them scantily dressed at any sporting event.
Please do not insult our cheerleaders.
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# 237, googlebux
Agree with you as fiscal and social conservative. I'm definitely not a bible thumper, in fact...do I own a bible? Hmmm
I'm also not looking to gun anyone down.
Our public education system is unfavorable and when the State of Georgia has 100% of lottery money earmarked for education, the state still lies at the bottom, 47th after twelve years of millions of dollars spent. They were 49th when the lottery was enacted. Two years ago they went to 46th and now 47th. Proof ... money is not the answer to Public Education.
As to the Economic crises, every member of Congress, that's Democrats and Republicans, including Obama, McCain and Bush failed the people miserably.
For Confirmation of my statement go to factcheck.org
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/who_caused_the_economic_crisis.html
Let me give you a tip. Those videos on that web site you mention. Don't fall for those hook, line and sinker. They are manipulative and grossly inaccurate. Remember this term, EDITING.
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216. At 4:32pm on 05 Nov 2008, robloop wrote:
Stephen, seeing that it is almost impossible to penetrate your dense cranial fog, I should once again make it clear that I am not American, don't watch Fox News, don't subscribe to conservative blogs, don't vote Republican, don't belong to your electoral minority, but through various circumstances know your country very well - and recognize a over-emotional and mindless twit when I read his words. So don't waste your time hurling pathetic insults. I take it from whence it comes and it's like water off a duck's back.
------------------------------------------------------------
eh ham.. robloop
As an observer. Let me tell you that you are defending the indefensible. Criticisms directed at Palin are justified. It seems you are the one who are insulting and in possession of dense cranial fog. You are claiming you don't watch Fox or subscribe to conservative blog... seems to me to be quite disturbing that you come to your views from your own kind of "logic"? That's very disturbing. I would be more understanding if you are indeed a avid subscriber of Fox and neocon blog. The fact that you have come to hold Palin in higher regard than Obama? Am I reading right? If so, you are on disturbed mind, far removed from the main stream thinking that flatly rejected Palin. Evidence: landslide win for Obama. You may think that you and you only are able to see some kind of truth and on one else. Let me tell you something obvious. When that many people act and vote in that way, you have wonder why. All that many people can't be all delusional.
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251 Ed
Agreed Mc CAin made a good speech.
I like the way he let the rabids know "you are wrong"
His speech and Baracks were both great.
(glad he didn't let palin speak though).
Bless you and America.
(I know ,I'm not sure what's happening to me..EEWWW. shake)
Now the work begins.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Nick #219
Certainly, you make a fair point that the financial crash pushed more voters into the Obama camp. But I stand by my speculation (since they would never admit it) that the GOP did not really believe that this one was winnable and the choice of Palin was a smart one because it enabled the Republicans to stay in the game for 2012.
My wasn't it winnable? George W Bush is exhibit A - if the incumbent has a 28% approval rating and you are in the same party you have a real problem.
Also, McCain was not the right candidate in these circumstances. For all his self-proclaimed 'maverick' status, he's been part of the establishment for too long. (Please don't ask me who would have been the right choice as I can't see any of those that ran for the Republican's would have fared any better).
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Icetayoa, You have discredited Obama as a brilliant, intelligent, thinking, and sound leader. Not to mention the fact that in ALL of the debates, regardless of what your pary allegiance is, Obama was the candidate who used his brain to convey his answers and to communicate to the American people (A very educated man). The fact of the matter is that there are MANY people in this country who agreed with Obama's policy platform, and commended his intelligence, but would NOT vote for him because of his race/skin color, even though, once again, it was proven during the debates that his stand on the economy, international relations/war in Iraq, healthcare, education represented the most thought out responses. This is a fact.
Also, if you have read ANY of the endorsements by the major publications, ie, The Economist (that has always praised McCain), The Washington Post, The New York Times, not to mention the endorsement by Colin Powell, the endorsements were not just because of their disdain of the policies of the Bush Administration, but because of McCain's lack of sound policy direction, lack of being in touch with the real problems of this Nation, and inability to represent any type of sound platform that is representative of a new paradigm. It must be noted also, that the McCain campaign was the most negatively run campaign, allowing supporters, with hardly any call for disdain, to use phrases like "kill him, he's a terrorist, an Arab (as if this is a sin), etc. If you listen to Colin Powell's reasons as to why he defected, one of them was because of this very and lack of integrity and humanity displayed during the campaign.
The "failed policies" of the Bush years is what the McCain camp attempted to counter act themselves, while trying not to add fuel to the fire of their party. It is the policies of the Bush Administration that became the center of debate for both parties. John McCain would not have been able to boast of his stand on National Security, and convince voters (through fear), that he was most knowledgeable if it had not been for the Iraq war - a Bush "initiative". He would not have been able to address the economy if it were not for the 700 Billion dollar bailout that we Americans are paying for, which was again, based on issues of a lack of de-regulation, which he basically supported along with GW.
If you followed the news, much of what was reported was that people who had not before considered him were "warming up to Obama" because of the economic situation. This is because before this crisis hit, and people realized what a grave threat this would be to them, McCain attempted to woo people based on issues of national security, which he proposed that he was better at handling, not supporting the kind of diplomacy that Obama was proposing.
Perhaps you missed the electoral college numbers (348 to 162), and the states he carried. These numbers represent the American people who made this election, so you are insulting intelligent voters by saying that he would not have one if it weren't for the policies of GW. The Republicans did not expand their base at all. The majority of their votes came from the south, where my family is from, which represents what? - Racism at its best - those who could not see a Black man as President. The Republicans have always had a stronghold in the south. Their base did not expand at all throughout this election. On the other hand, the Dems were able to get Virginia on its knees, and bring in midwestern states, not to mention Florida, in unprecedented numbers. Let us not forget the brilliant way in which the campaign was organized, mobilizing people in unprecendented numbers. This is to be commended.
I think one deserves credit where credit is due, particularly when around the world people are breathing and hoping. The people have spoken, and I highly doubt that the coutry will go backwards. At least give some of us who are American and analytical for being able to think.
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#43 icetayoa wrote:
"what i mean is that the dislike of Bush by so many voters must have been so intense as to becloud their judgement./You dont honestly believe that Obama had it in him to defeat Mcain, if the negative G W Bush consideration was taken out of the equation./GW Bush consideration was the elephant in the room for Mcain."
This is classic rightwing stuff. Rightwingers love to congratulate themselves on how rational they are compared to those emotional liberals. Therefore when they lose they can never accept they've lost the argument. It's always that the other side are 'hypnotised', that their judgement is 'beclouded' etc.
Yes, it's theoretically possible that McCain could have won IF
- He had opposed GWB for the last 8 years. [Of course if he had he probably wouldn't have been nominated] or
- He'd chosen a competent VP, and they'd run a good campaign or
- If we'd had 8 years of peace and prosperity under a popular and respected Republican who'd backed McCain, or
- If we'd had 8 years of war, lies and incompetence from a Dem President whom Obama had supported.
Of course, as the old saying goes - if my auntie had b*lls, she's be my uncle.....
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256. At 5:47pm on 05 Nov 2008, mmarkjm
-----------------------------------
Are you american?
Do you live there/here
As to living in poverty, Have YOU?
What do you call poverty.
UB40 or Income support?
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#138 patsy620,
Yours is precisely the attitude I hope to see in the days to come. Of course, being a moderate, I think it's the way to go.
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# 61 zeegoman wrote:
"It is very worrying that Sarah Palin is still considered a contender by the Republicans after her obismally shallow performace this time round. She is to use an old Glasgow term a 'bam-pot'"
I thought it was barmpot, but I won't argue.
Two other Scottish insults are 'Numpty' and 'Dunderheed'. Numpty is, I believe, sometimes used in the following expression - "Awa' and bile yer heed, ya numpty!". [Hope that doesn't contravene the rules on foreign languages!]
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The Republican party is the architect of much of its own poblems. They chose John McCain as their candidate and then insisted on shackling him to a campiagn strategy that he was never comfortable with, and threatened not to support him if he didn't go along.
More importantly they have over recent years abandoned large sections of the electorate.
City Dwellers = Not true Americans.
College Educated = Elitist
New York/California = Bunch of freaking liberals.
Eventually they chopped away so much of the electorate that they were tottering on their narrow base waiting for someone to kncok them over.
Will they now realize the folly, or will they decide they just didn't get out enough of the base and doom themselves to the wilderness?
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254 Ed
Sorry maybe it was too complex a notion for your simple understanding;
Obama appealed to the uneducated black voter and gave them the "change" they wanted. Though they have had plenty of opportunity to educate themselves and make a change. They continue to wallow in the entitlements and the welfare system. And yes 90% of the 20% make for a huge swing in the vote. Sure many other voted for him but that vote was the big swing and of course the "educated" voters disregarding his racist, socialist, terrorist and black radical mentors, friends and political backers.
I am certainly not the most educated person but I work 6 days a week and make solid money. I believe my self funded BBA and Master's qualifies me just fine though in the education arena.
Peace and love - until of course the radical Muslims attack again and it's up to the US to pull everyone's butt out of the fire. Russia reestablishes their communist reign and everyone needs the US to counter them. China decides the East is their's and well you know....
Hmmm I wonder if we would rather have McCain then?
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#54 - just what exactly does Obama stand for. What is his manaifesto, assuming American politicians have manifestos, and why do BBC journalists apply not one scintilla of the critical faculties they use when examining British politicians when examining their American counterparts.
You can see the whole thing neatly packaged and tied up with a bow (or at least downloadable as a pdf file) at his website www.barackobama.com. However, as you insist that it must be a "manifesto" I somehow doubt you will go look at it as it might injure your conviction that he must be some kind of communist.
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85. At 11:52am on 05 Nov 2008, icetayoa wrote:
"what i find very disgraceful is the manner in which Americans dont show any ounce of respect for their leaders."
Anyone who is bothered can click on Ice T's name on his postings and get to his previous postings, and see how much respect he had for Obama [or the Deity as he sarcastically called him] and those who support him. [Recall how he recently announced that we were all 'Obamazoids' and Obama operatives.]
He was also greatly exercised about Obama having the nerve to take time from campaigning to visit his dying grandmother.
Now he lectures us.
The stench of hypocrisy is overwhelming.
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# 107 icetayoa wrote [of Palin]
"She is different alright, but that does not make her stupid. If she was as empty as you try to suggest, how come she was intelligent enough to defeat a former governor to clinch her party nomination, then go a step further by defeating an incumbent democratic governor on her way to becoming the governor of Alaska."
GW Bush was twice elected Governor of Texas, one of the most populous States
He now rates in polls as possibly the least popular and well-respected President in history - or at least since polling started.
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Oh come on moderators. Look we are sad people who have nothing better to do with our lives. Let us slag each other off then we get rid of our frustrations lol.
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#71 - "Someone who is convinced that the earth was created 4,000BC? That man coexisted with dinosaurs? The reason why she never travelled in the past was that she didnt want to fall off the edge of the planet. "
While I don't think Palin is suitable to be president, is that really true?
The last sentence (about falling off the planet) is sarcasm. The other beliefs are what is called "Creationism," which is taught by fundamental Christians opposed to Darwinism. The 4000 year date is based on the number of years some bishop (I've forgotten his name) counted in the Bible (though it's more like 6000 years, as the date of origin comes out to 4004 BC). As they believe in the Bible's literal translation, they disbelieve in prehistory, however they must account for the existence of fossils, such as dinosaur bones, so they infer either a) They must be from historic creatures, or b) They are God's "interior decoration" for earth, meant as a test of faith (the faithful will not believe they are from real creatures, while the unfaithful will believe in evolution).
As far as whether Gov. Palin really believes this stuff, all that can be said is that she belongs to a church that affirms such beliefs. Whether she agrees with it in her own mind can only be known to her.
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"conservatism is not dead" - rager5
Are you sure? There's certainly a pretty rotten stench coming off it!
"Now america has elected a new president that wants change just like germany in 1933" - rager5
Now that's what I call a sense of proportion!
Incidentally, you ignorant idiot - or I suppose I could just say, "you conservative" - Germany did not elect a new President in 1933.
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"those who poured vitriol on McCain's character " -seanspa
The person who did most of that was McCain, with his constant lies about his opponent.
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#258, tigermilkboy
Thanks for clarifying you views on Electoral College.
I do admit while I voted for McCain as I said but secretly wanted Obama (# 138), I do wonder if there would be dancing in the streets.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
# 275, rager5
Another blogger educated by the American System.
If your ticket isin't paid for to go to England next month, I'll spread my wealth and pay for your ONE WAY ticket.
Just be sure you lose your passport after you get over there.
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283 drunkmutt
" They continue to wallow in the entitlements and the welfare system. "
ah the racist emerges further from his hole
Mods can you put the post back where I accuse him /her of being a racist.
I think I could prove the point better than he/she can?
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IGNORANT IDIOT WOW
NOW THATS WHAT I CALL A SENSE OF PROPORTION! HUGS AND KISSES
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#152 jjlandry6a wrote:
"It is a great day, one of the last barriers has been broken. We start the day knowing that Race is not a barrier to the Greatest, yet toughest job in the world./But, Gender still is."
What, if any, is your evidence for this? For months HR Clinton was the runaway front runner for the Dem nomination. Some promising candidates - eg allegedly Gov Mark Warner - didn't even enter the race because they felt she couldn't be beaten. She ran far ahead of all of her rivals for the nomination [most of whom were more experienced] - except for Obama. And even then, they had the tightest race for a nomination I can remember. She got 18m votes - as she repeatedly reminded us. If he hadn't been in the race she would surely have been the nominee, and probably President-elect. She wasn't the first woman candidate - eg Patricia Schroeder and Liddy Dole - but she was the first female front runner. Who can seriously doubt now that a women could be elected President? [And be clear - people object to the idea of Palin as President because of who she is as a person, not because she is a woman.]
"While Obama was civil, his minions were not. From the blogs to the PACs, there was more hate and venom spewed, at a level I have never seen before. "
On this blog I saw plenty of hate and venom - much if not most AGAINST Obama.
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post #97 mmrakj-m conveniently ignore the fact that over 90% of african americans voted for Kerry,Gore,Clinton and possibly every democrat since the 1960s when the democratic party advocated the right for african americans to vote. While everyone who opposed went to the republican party.
Now are you implying that race was a motive for them suporting white candidates before Obama?
Nothing is more rare in poltical circles than a Black Republican and to this day the GOP still struggles to appeal to minorities because they once were afraid to alienate the intolerant wing of their base.
I suppose that includes you.
As your post at 249 reveals, you apparently are afraid of anyone who isnt 'like you' somehow climbing the social ladder, do you expect some form of retaliation for something that happened 150 years ago?
the fact that you see race as the motivator for african americans voting over 90% for the the democrat, Obama , and ignore the fact that they always vote for the democrat anyway , just shows that you will believe anything that supports your wrong opinions, and it shows how hard you will try to drag someone down to your level of thinking.
sorry but you are one of a kind.
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269. At 6:15pm on 05 Nov 2008, mmarkjm wrote:
Reply to 246.
No thats Pakistan.
How you say Obama is returning to 1933 is incredible.
You are a racist.
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I was sitting in the town cafe today and I guess I wouldn't be surprised to hear the older generation bad mouthing the new President elect when I keep in mind that not 20 years ago the cafe I was sitting in was named the Koffee Kup Kafe. Though I didn't hear a single derogatory comment from anyone in their golden years, I heard someone my age say that we lost our freedom last night. I told him "how ironic, that if we were really in a country that had lost it's freedoms, you'd probably already have been executed for saying something like that." How sad, that some of us don't realize how free we are.
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#275 rager5,
What are you trying to accompish with that?
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I do admit while I voted for McCain as I said but secretly wanted Obama (# 138),
Patsy sorry to be rude earlier, but if you secretly wanted Obama why did you not vote that way?
Were you being threatened.
or are you schizophrenic.
Can you not control yourself?
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
# 283, brewdog0530
"Obama appealed to the uneducated black voter and gave them the "change" they wanted. Though they have had plenty of opportunity to educate themselves and make a change."
"I am certainly not the most educated person.
You aren't one of those educated in the State of Georgia were you? (See #272) If so, I'll excuse your grave lack of ignorance.
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#129 - Together with the fundamentalistic Christians (of whom many are not racist!)
I have no use for rabid fundamentalists, due to their insistence that belonging to "their" church is the only path to heaven (even if true, how could one choose as there are many such churches), however I must agree with what is said above.
Christian fundamentalists are not racist as a group, and their fundamentalist beliefs do not teach racism. Unfortunately this election saw the same candidate appealing to the racists who appealed to the fundamentalists. I believe the vast majority of them would be appalled to be lumped in the same category if they realized people saw them like that.
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"would Justin Webb, or anyone else for that matter, like to tell a typical BBC licence-payer, thats me, just what exactly does Obama stand for. What is his manaifesto" - ianperfect
Tell you what - why not look on his website?
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"The subprime is hands down on the heads of the dems." - brewdog5030
The total of subprime mortgaes is around $300 bn. Decline in asset values over the past few months is estimated at $15 tn. Since you're obviously of rather limited intelligence, I'll do the maths for you: a factor of 50 difference. In other words, you're full of it.
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Incidentally, brewdog0530, only a small proportion of the bad mortgages are those made to poor people: most of the sum is from loans to well-off people buying big houses and second homes.
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299: yep!
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#183. watermanaquarius: "A special thanks to Ed and David_C who with great wisdom have made it very enjoyable"
How very kind of you, my thanks. Interestingly Ed is an American living in Scotland and I am a Brit living in California, so perhaps between us we may have more balanced views. But unlike Ed, I still wish it had been Hillary!
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CIVILIIAN SECURTY FORCE SOUNDS LIKE SS.
FATSY620 NO I HAVE MY OWN MONEY I DID GRADUTE FROM A IVY LEAGE SCHOOL.BUT THANK YOU
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Ref 237 Googlebux
A good and honest posting. I hope your compatriots appreciate being called "idiots", but in this case unfortunately true. Thanks for giving me a chuckle.
The Canadian province of Ontario once voted into office a New Democratic Party socialist called Bob Rae. By the time he had finished his social engineering and dabbling with the economy, Ontario was the third largest borrower from the World Bank - behind the European Bank and almost bankrupt socialist Sweden. Rae largely wiped out small businesses, or chased them south of the border in order to survive. Buffalo, New York State, benefitted so greatly from the influx of business they once nominated Bob Rae 'Businessman of the month' and had his face on billboards all over the city.
It was truly hilarious, but not so funny back home.
The same thing occurred in British Columbia back in the 1970s, and after that socialist fiasco had ended the province took years to recover financially.
The many Americans who now think socialism will bale them out are destined to
disappointment.
.................................................................
Ref 252 StephenDerry
Stephen, there you go again getting over-emotional! And now I'm also a "hypocrite", primarily for disagreeing with your views on and support of Obama, and for defending Palin.
I have no intention of digging up your old posting that implied I was a Republican who fed himself a diet of Fox News, conservative blogs, etc, but you did either yesterday or the day before. You go find it.
And in the process don't embellish what I wrote. You've added to the things I said.
I never "vilified" Obama, just pointed out numbers of things about his conduct and character that should have been of serious concern to the electorate. If to you that amounts to vilification, then so be it.
Further, against you I will never "struggle" to keep up.
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#125 - His records are restricted. McCain and Palin freely presented theirs. When McCain's citizenship status was questioned,he answered them. We can't be sure about Obama though. There are current appeals related to that question. It is said that Obama's mother,being american while Barrack Senior was not,required his mother to have been a citizen for (10) years. Five of them had to be after the age of 16. Well then,if his mother gave birth to Obama in 1961 as is claimed,then his mother did not meet citizenship requirements which would be necessary for her to be able to confer Natural born status on Barrack.
I had hoped that the people on the blogs spewing these tall tales were all McCain campaign people. Looks like not.
1. Palin did not "freely" present her documentation. As an amateur astrologer, I wanted to know her birth time, but it is not available. If her birth certificate were now in the public domain, the birth time would be public knowledge as well. In addition, she is the only candidate who did not provide a medical history (although I have no doubt that Trig is her child).
2. Your convoluted argument about Obama's mother defies logic. She was born in Kansas, and therefore a citizen from birth (as was Obama, since he was born in Hawaii). Even if the restrictions on age you cite were true (they are not), what you say is nonsensical. If parents must be citizens of the U.S. for five years past the age of 16 in order to confer citizenship status on their children, then any people whose parents were younger than 21 when they were born are not citizens, by your logic.
If the McCain campaign has made you this paranoid, please get help.
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To all the right-wing squirrel fodder that have been peppering this blog with your mindless rantings, I'll try once to at least illustrate the difference in philosophies behind most of the people supporting each candidate.
Go watch their respective speeches at the end, and notice how when McCain pays tribute to Obama, the crowds boos (he had to shush them numerous times). Now watch Obama's speech and notice how when he paid tribute to McCain, the crowd cheered.
Speaks volumes to me!
So run this past your limited neural connections, and see what you can deduce from this. This, to me, was exactly the type of human unification that I have been waiting for over three decades to witness again!
You can still join us you know...
Jeff
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287. At 7:08pm on 05 Nov 2008, mmarkjm wrote:
Oh come on moderators. Look we are sad people who have nothing better to do with our lives. Let us slag each other off then we get rid of our frustrations lol.
you are a Brit right?
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172. I agree interracial marriage might be used as a metric. Wikipedia says that the UK rate of interracial marriage is 2%, and claims that since this is similar to the US rate, and there are fewer other races, that this shows it's more common. On the other hand, wikipedia says the US rate is 5%, so draw your own conclusions.
At the time, for what it's worth, I had the sense of a people who were both more up-front, as you say, and more mentally agile (UK) in the process of getting their heads around a problem (frequent presence of other races) that they were relatively inexperienced with (compared to the US), but had the feeling they'd be doing better at it than Americans eventually. Just an opinion and a guess.
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# 283 brewdog0530 wrote:
[In reply to Ed Iglehart]
"Sorry maybe it was too complex a notion for your simple understanding"
How delightfully snide and unpleasant.
Ed has shown himself over some weeks to be intelligent and literate. You have taken much less time to prove you are neither
"Obama appealed to the uneducated black voter and gave them the "change" they wanted. Though they have had plenty of opportunity to educate themselves and make a change. They continue to wallow in the entitlements and the welfare system"
When you kept on whinging about those on welfare, I detected what is known in politics as a 'dog whistle' - you hint what you say without being explicit. I was sure you were referring to African-Americans - but I didn't accuse you of being a racist without proof.
Thanks for the proof.
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"He was voted in because he recieved a VAST majority of the black vote and that is the only reason." - brewdog0530
That is not the only reason. If you mean if blacks were not allowed to vote he would have lost, you are correct - maybe that's what you'd like? But he also did considerably better than Kerry among white voters, and did very well among Hispanics (but perhaps you'd like to ban them too). Of course, the Democratic candidate always receives a large majority of the black vote, for socio-economic reasons (sorry to use such a difficult word - you can look it up).
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# 255 and 265 rager5 wrote:
"AND GET READY EVERYTIME SOMETHING BAD HAPPENS IN TH US BO WILL BE BLAMED.
I MEAN PRESIDENT BO .SINCE WE CAN'T USE HIS MIDDLENAME US DUMB WHITE PEOPLE"
Clearly he thought it was so clever he had to yell it twice.
Really rager, it is racist to make an assertion about a group of person on the basis of colour.
All white people aren't dumb.
Just you.
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299. tricia79 wrote:
"not 20 years ago the cafe I was sitting in was named the Koffee Kup Kafe"
Clearly, there are some people writing here today who would prefer the majority of coffee bars and cafes still to be called that.
Why the moderators are allowing not only clearly racist comments, but ones which amount to incitement to racial hatred (contrary to the BBC House Rules) only because those views are hinted at rather than expressed outright shocks me.
That some are evidently British and are doing so because they have found that somehow they can get away with it here when they cannot anywhere else, is even more depressing.
I just hope people are not misled by the frequency with which they post (often under different screen names) into believing there are more than a couple of these cranks in reality.
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"Well, 2 great speeches. I hope that those who poured vitriol on McCain's character can acknowledge he is not as they wished to portray him. Some here already have. "
I've said I kinda liked McCain all along, and thought his concession speech was beautiful.
Another Obama supporter and I had the same thought: he should have thrown everybody out and did things the way he wanted to do them. He would have had a better chance at winning, and he certainly would have had a classier campaign.
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"The problem, of course, is: How do you live with people who are not exactly like you?
This post is filled with a litany of insults directed at those who dare to question or diagree."
TimothyR444
I get along with the people I meet, work and socialise with very well, thank you. That may be because I meet very few as stupid, bigoted, paranoid and generally unpleasant as most of the right-wing commenters here.
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Eh! why am I being referred to mods? (302) Who's complaining? Did I say something intelligent?
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Ref 237 Googlebux
A good and honest posting. I hope your compatriots appreciate being called "idiots", but in this case unfortunately true. Thanks for giving me a chuckle.
The Canadian province of Ontario once voted into office a New Democratic Party socialist called Bob Rae. By the time he had finished his social engineering and dabbling with the economy, Ontario was the third largest borrower from the World Bank - behind the European Bank and almost bankrupt socialist Sweden. Rae largely wiped out small businesses, or chased them south of the border in order to survive. Buffalo, New York State, benefitted so greatly from the influx of business they once nominated Bob Rae 'Businessman of the month' and had his face on billboards all over the city.
It was truly hilarious, but not so funny back home.
The same thing occurred in British Columbia back in the 1970s, and after that socialist fiasco had ended the province took years to recover financially.
The many Americans who now think socialism will bale them out are destined to
disappointment.
.................................................................
Ref 252 StephenDerry
Stephen, there you go again getting over-emotional! And now I'm also a "hypocrite", primarily for disagreeing with your views on and support of Obama, and for defending Palin.
I have no intention of digging up your old posting that implied I was a Republican who fed himself a diet of Fox News, conservative blogs, etc, but you did either yesterday or the day before. You go find it.
And in the process don't embellish what I wrote. You've added to the things I said.
I never "vilified" Obama, just pointed out numbers of things about his conduct and character that should have been of serious concern to the electorate. If to you that amounts to vilification, then so be it.
Further, against you I will never "struggle" to keep up.
........................
Byungmoon.
Majorities are sometimes horribly wrong. Desperate for 'change', during the 1930s the German people chose Adolf Hitler to lead them. The majority in Zimbabwe voted in Robert Mugabe who has ruined their country and left most of them starving and destitute.
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rager : stop shouting
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googlebux I love your name ...
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319 and 320: agreed my friends : )
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stevedaytona@276,
I'd certainly agree that the Republicans were lacking strong candidates, and that GWB's record was a handicap. But the gap in favour of Obama opened immediately after the first phase of the financial crisis, so without that, I think they might have won, and that they wouldn't have given up as early as when Palin was chosen. However, you're almost certainly at least partly right, and they were considering the possibility of losing, and what their strategy for 2012 would be then.
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GREAT FOR BO. DON'T GET ME WRONG GOOD FOR HIM FOR GETTING ELECTED DOESN'T MEAN I HAVE TO LIKE HIM I SERVED MY COUNTRY AND WAS SHOT IN MY LEG UNDER BILL CLINTON AND LOST PART OF MY LEG.DOESN'T MEAN I HAVE TO LIKE LIBS. PRESIDENT GEORGE BUSH WAS A IDIOT IN SOME RESPECTS. I DIDN'T LIKE A LOT OF HIS POLICIES. BUT DAY IN AND DAY OUT HAD TO LISTEN TO LIBS CRAPING ON ME FOR BEING A CONSERVATIVE.IT IS NOT DEAD AND THAT IS WHAT MAKES AMERICA GREAT.SO WHAT COMES AROUND GOES AROUND.I DID GRADUTE FROM TUFTS SO STOP CALLING ME A IDIOT AND I CAN BELIEVE IN WHAT I WANT. I SERVED MY COUNTRY HAVE U?SOCIALISM CHANGE AND CIVILIAN SECURITY FORCE SOUND LIKE HELL TO ME,BUT MORE POWER TO THE LIBS IN THE U.S IF THAT MAKES YOU FEEL BETTER. IF YOU DON'T AGREE WITH THEM THEN YOU ARE A RACIST. SO BE IT
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scary thought: if we keep on arguing with each other; even though we protest at the irrationality of each others' positions, and the stupidity of each others' posts, and the moral bankrupty of each others' ideas - what if we find that actually we cannot let go of each other, that we actually depend on each other ....
: )
sorry it is probably the wine ...
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"Peace and love - until of course the radical Muslims attack again and it's up to the US to pull everyone's butt out of the fire. Russia reestablishes their communist reign and everyone needs the US to counter them. China decides the East is their's and well you know....
Hmmm I wonder if we would rather have McCain then?" - brewdog0530
You forgot the Martians landing in Central Park, and the alien shape-shifting lizards from Alpha Centauri infiltrating the British Royal family.
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IM NOT SHOUTING MY SON SPILLED MY COFFEE ON MY KEYBOARD AND I CAN'T GET THE CAPS LOCK OFF SORRY
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#313
Outstanding! Should I bring my glue?
Carpenter Sam
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#310
Rager,
Please remind me to petition Harvard for a 101 course on the use of the shift key.
Professor Sam
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"I DID GRADUTE FROM A IVY LEAGE SCHOOL." - rager5
Right, and I came from the planet Krypton with Obama to save the world.
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#288
Go Girl.
Cheerleader Sam
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331: ok
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Ref 311/robloop
You clearly are having difficulty keeping up, you purported to respond to my post 130 in this thread but now admit you were actually responding to an old posting from "either yesterday or the day before" which if it exists is totally irrelevant to the point I was making in post 130.
For clarity again, seeing as you admit being a day or two behind:
You said in post 120:
"The villifying (sic) of Sarah Palin on this site is not only totally unjust, but plainly very stupid. Typical of Democrat/left-wing intolerance we've witnessed over the last few months!"
However in post 19 from Gavin Hewitt's blog "The Cleansing" you posted:
"[Obama] has demonstrated poor character by lying and deceiving, and who associates with people of low moral fibre... demonstrates graphically the flawed nature of their character and consequently that they possess little or none of the wisdom and other qualities necessary to usher in a new world order of the nature to which you evidently aspire. Barack Obama is no Pericles or Socrates and alongside George Washington (who never told a lie) he is a dismal speciman."
You are vilifying Barack Obama, so I made the totally reasonable point that according to your own words and logic, it's "not only totally unjust but plainly very stupid". And that it is "typical of [right-wing/Republican] intolerance" (for it is). And that in complaining about it, when being guilty of exactly the same behaviour yourself, you are a hypocrite.
There are not two different sets of rules, one for the left-wing, one for the right-wing, there isn't even a set of rules for people who pretend to be independent but cannot be seperated from the right-wing in their views. There is a single, civilised standard, and while I agree many people have breached it in their description of Governer Palin, you have also breached it in your descriptions of President Elect Obama.
Your concern for my emotional state is touching (I'm actually in quite a good mood), but I am not the one getting hysterical, getting mixed up over which day's posts I'm responding to, vilifying candidates or my fellow posters. I'm just showing you what you've said and what it says about you. Again, look to yourself before casting aspersions upon others.
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to selfevidenttruths,
many thanks! what's interesting is that I loved your name as well... i'm a fan of Ben Franklin, who (if I'm not mistaken) is credited with editing the phrase "self-evident truths" into our Declaration of Independence... 'Can't be sure, though; I'm a product of the (pathetic) US government-run school system!!!
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RE: Post #313
"You can still join us you know..."
You might be able to get them on board if you offer something shiny that makes noise...
Or the offer of an all-you-can-eat country buffet with fried everything plus gravy!
Leave them where they lay. You can't save everyone... especially those who do not want help.
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I WAS SHOT IN MY KNEE UNDER BILL CLINTON AND NOW I HAVE A KNEE REPLACEMENT I HAVE A THOUGHT AND I CAN SAY WHAT I WANT. I DON' T LIKE GWB AND I DON'T LKE LIBS JUST MY OPINION . IF YOU DON'T LIKE ME. SORRY IM NOT A LIB BUT YOU WILL NOT STOP ME FROM SAYING WHAT I WANT TO SAY IF YOU DON'T LIKE. ALSO I GOT MY DEGREE FROM TUFTS SO I REALLY DON'T THINK IM THAT STUPID OR RACIST
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It is indeed a huge paradigm shift and a historic moment of epic proportions to see an american of black and kenyan descent becomes the first citizen of the most powerful nation on earth.It tells us that things are fast changing and it signals a new era not only for us as black people but in the overall balance of power around the world.
We really hope, God willing, for an outstanding Obama administration to avoid a situation in which blacks will continue to suffer stigma and prejudice.
President elect Obama has been an inspiration for most of us and his brillant achievement show that the sky is indeed the limit.
Benoit Nzisabira( South Africa)
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#43
Ice,
Nope, he sucked in his own right.
Analytical Sam
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BEST OF LUCK TO YOU ALL. LOVE THE RACIST AS THE LIBS CALL ME AND THE POOR ,POOR WELFARE NONE WORKING FOLKS CALL ME. HOLD ONTO YOUR WALLETS
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"I WAS SHOT IN MY KNEE UNDER BILL CLINTON" - rager5
What on Earth were you doing under Bill Clinton? I thought he had interns for that sort of thing?
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# 307, Nick-Gotts
"only a small proportion of the bad mortgages are those made to poor people: most of the sum is from loans to well-off people buying big houses and second homes"
Having worked in Foreclosure for five years, when there were two and three mortgages on a house along with five, six, seven credit cards. Again I have to bring in to this blog the lousy education system in this country.
In 1971, I bought my first house. I looked at my take home pay and bought a house with payments based on what was less than my take home pay. While the house was somewhat of a dump. I was a homeowner. Over time, saving money, I fixed it up and sold it for a profit. I never lived beyond my pay check.
Make all the excuses you want on behalf of these mortgagors. It is simple math. They wanted more than what they earned.
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huggs and kisses
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# 341 sirBenoit
Eloquent. Simpy Eloquent
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#340
Rager,
I've heard of a few things happening 'under Bill Clinton' but yours is by far the most unusual. Everyone else was left with a drycleaning tab, you seem to be emotionally scarred for life.
Concerned Sam
P.S. I hear Oxy Clean gets it out. Then again I bought a Sham-wow so what would I know.
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To # 340 rager5
"ALSO I GOT MY DEGREE FROM TUFTS SO I REALLY DON'T THINK IM THAT STUPID OR RACIST"
I'm not saying your lying but what degree could Tufts have granted you. Take a deep breath and go back and read your comments. A person with a degree from Tufts doesn't act like you.
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#341
No more than your own Nelson Mandela good sir.
Pax Vobiscum
Sam
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rager5: it took me a while to decipher but ok, I for one agree you have a right to your point of view. I also have not called you racist. I simply disagreed with you equating 2008 with 1933, implying some connection between Hitler and Obama. that is all. I stand by it. Oh, do sort your keyboard out. Regards.
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#338 - googlebux
" Ben Franklin, who (if I'm not mistaken) is credited with editing the phrase "self-evident truths" into our Declaration of Independence"
Or was it Thomas Jefferson?
Ha! Bet nobody in this blog comprehends this statement.
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#344,
Quicker, less crude and funnier than mine.
I salute you, sir.
Humble Sam
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i guess my response to post post #97 mmrakj.. has hurt someones feeling, for calling out someone for who they are. It was in no way offensive, just an analysis of his comments, and highlighting the facts that contradict that comment. I guess its the truth that hurts and sends some to cry to the moderators :).
you can refer this as well although it did not break any of the house rules.
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really fat mom likes it
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#208. TimothyR444: "Obama is very far left and not in any sense a centrist."
Been at the Republican Kool-Aid again? The President-elect is no more "very far left" than I am Santa Claus. That may not be a cogent argument but your statement is so foolish that it deserves nothing better.
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An observation:
It's a rather sad state of affairs when the Day After Election blog has more moderated posts on it than the average Before Election blog.
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353: I do believe it was Jefferson : )
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that should have been 352
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oh yes i now i can't have a degree from tufts because i don't agree with the left i can listen to people and their opinion and not be brainwashed sorry to crush your dreams libs
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We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. That, to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That, when any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or abolish it.
: )
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357: I knew that Obama guy was a fraud! lol
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selfevidenttruths god bless you!!we don't have to agree so what we don't have to hate each other. good luck to you and best wishes. rj
my keyboard is all messed up it is doing what ever it wants.
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#357
To be fair Geo,
I just got moderated for calling nelson mandela a great guy. I kid you not. A couple of beers and some fireworks and who knows what else will be cencored.
Sad Sam
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Geez! Relax, people!
I'll get the rum, make some mojitos, and fire up the grill if that will calm some of you down. I've got a metric crapload of chicken breasts in the freezer.
Seriously though...
If I might impose upon my British cousins and be permitted to quote Monty Python's Argument sketch...
"An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition."
That's why we're here. We all have points of view, and we are all different. We don't need to agree with everything, but come on... we are all adults( I hope). So please... stop unleashing the fury of CAPSLOCK.
I'll be the first to admit that some of my posts today were slightly vitriolic in tone... but I have always made it a point to slam the door of truth on the feet of the ignorant. I won't apologize for that.
But since I have been reading these posts and rebuttals, I have peered a bit into the minds of some really relaxed and groovy people.
I'm looking forward to many more posts(and rebuttals) in the future.
Sorry for being a bit on the saccharine side, but it's been an emotional 48 hours.
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# 203 I am proud to be an American again
I've never been embarrassed or ashamed of being an American. I can't imagine what that is like.
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"Make all the excuses you want on behalf of these mortgagors. It is simple math. They wanted more than what they earned." - patsy620
Try reading what I actually wrote. I'm not making excuses for anyone. I'm pointing out that only a small proportion of bad mortgages have anything to do with the CRA or were made to the poor, and that the total of bad mortgages, $300 bn, cannot account for a loss of $15 tn in asset values. It is, as you say, simple math(s).
The lenders thought it didn't matter if they made loans to people, rich or poor, who couldn't afford them. As long as property prices kept on rising, if they had to foreclose, they would still make a profit. The problem came when, surprise surprise, property prices stopped rising - as they were bound to do sooner or later. The problem then spread because the banks had been allowed to create "financial instruments" so complex and opaque that no-one knew who might be insolvent, so banks were not prepared to lend to each other. The worst phase of the crisis (so far), came when Lehmann Brothers collapsed and, acting on "free market" ideology, Bush and the Fed let it. When the credit default swaps Lehmann was involved in came due for settlement, banks worldwide were threatened with collapse because Lehmann couldn't meet its obligations. Lehmann didn't itself make any mortgage loans.
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best of luck to everybody on here all views should be welcome and best of luck to everyone around the world
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"oh yes i now i can't have a degree from tufts because i don't agree with the left i can listen to people and their opinion and not be brainwashed sorry to crush your dreams libs" - rager5
The scepticism arises because you're semi-literate.
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#192
Hi, bluepaddy 13!
In addition to what you say, not even 24 hours have elapsed since President BHO's
win had been announced and there is already (nuclear) sabre rattling in the Baltic. That is the first real major international impact of President BHO's win-not the hurrahs.
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SamTyler69@353,
Thank you sir!
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"An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition." - vcm1967a
No it isn't.
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hey nick-gotts sorry you are not man or women enough to serve but im sure you working for nothing means you have helped somebody.pumice ignoramus i'm sure thats what you are called. do you need a defination for that
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# 361
Thomas Jefferson it was.
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365 vcm: Yeh! er, is this a five minute argument or ... lol
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373 Nick: Yes it is.
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# 367, Nick-Gotts
"Try reading what I actually wrote"
I stand corrected. I make the assumption people defend mortgagors. Not after what I've witnessed.
Which lends to this.... what if Jane and John Q Public had been smart and not taken those loans. Would we be where we are today? Hint: Franklin Raines
Check out factcheck.org
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/who_caused_the_economic_crisis.html
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Isn't a basic level of Government welfare implicit in the inaliable right to life?
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#373
Yes it is!
An argument is an intellectual process. Contradiction is just the automatic gainsaying of any statement the other person makes.
:P
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# 372, Nick
An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition." - vcm1967a
# 372, response by Nick-Gotts. No it isn't.
Is to.
http://www.iep.utm.edu/a/argument.htm
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patsy620@377,
Thanks for the factcheck link. I'm not wholly convinced "Gramm-Leach-Bliley was innocent" - after all, both Gramm and Clinton have an interest in denying it bore any responsibility, but as the factcheck article says, plenty of blame to go round. I'd give the largest share to deregulation and financial speculation in general, and not just in the USA by any means: many European and Asian banks are in bad trouble. CDSs seems to be particularly dubious, as in effect they are insurance, but are not regulated as insurance products; and they show "correlated risk" - if one event insured against (in this case a default) occurs, that makes others more likely. Basically, large banks can't be trusted without strict regulation, because in making decisions they take into account only their own risk, not the systemic risk that arises if they get into trouble - but in practice central bankers often fail to regulate, because (a) the cleverest finance people go into the private sector, where rewards are greater, and (b) there's a lot of to-and-fro of high-level personnel between banks and the agencies supposed to regulate them. It's no coincidence that the collective noun for bankers is a "wunch"!
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hey if john kerry is sec of state will jane fonda and erica jong carry his hot air and ketchup
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OMg 8 yrs bush,8 yrs clinton,8 yrs bo god us all.
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#123. MarqFlyer: "Hillary -- even though she was soundly beaten by Obama in the primaries -- would also have won in a landslide."
The unofficial count for all 2008 Democratic presidential primaries gave Obama 16,683,805 votes and Clinton 16,557,398, a 126,407 vote advantage. That's hardly being "soundly beaten", a reason why so many were upset when she was never considered for the vice-presidential spot. But should it ever be Hillary against Sarah, Mrs Palin will never see the inside of The White House, unless as a visitor.
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please enjoy:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=k3HaRFBSq9k
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#332 Sam
Can you bring the economy size? I think we'll need it. Meanwhile, I'll try to find something to smooth ruffled feathers, so we will all stick together better.
Apprentice Jeff
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# 381, Nick
Good Point
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# 382, rager 5
It's past your bedtime, young man. Now go.
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#339 vcm1967a
Aye. I guess it's just that nasty 'hope' stuff getting in the way again. I keep trying to shake it, but it won't go away.
Cheers,
Jeff
P.S. I'm off now to earn some more 'Ameros'. Maybe I'll catch up with some of you in the wee hours (GMT -7 here).
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Ref 337 StephenDerry
Oh for goodness sake! Where do you go to school? What dictionary do you use? Now go look up the word v-i-l-i-f-i-c-a-t-i-o-n. Criticism, even blunt criticism, does not add up to vilification.
The quote you provided does not amount to vilification. Disparagement yes, but not vilification. Obama did lie and deceive, and on a few occasions. And it does expose a flawed nature. What else can I say?
If you weren't so biased and considered more carefully, you would acknowledge that while defending Sarah Palin I also made it clear that I would not have supported her, but having wearied of the trash from CNN and other liberal/left media toward this woman who, after all, did not ask to put herself in the running, I considered it fair to do so - particularly when that gasbag Joe Biden escaped careful scrutiny. Why? Many months ago John King on CNN said that Biden's reputation in Washington was one of 'liking nothing more than the sound of his own voice'.
Biden was shielded by the liberal media, while Palin was crucified at every turn. Was that fair?
Now, I've got work to do, and being widowed a son to feed, so I can't sit here endlessly waiting for you to come up with further pro-Obama foolishness. But meanwhile, thanks for the fun.
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Trying to catch up again:
6 and 13
It may be that the other "Joe" who seems useful to Palin is Joe McCarthy. He did more damage to the moral in our country than the communists (who he saw around every corner) ever did. His accusations and hate-filled speeches were once discredited, but with the jagged Right edge of the Republican party uncovered, it appears that a significant number of people are inspired to behave and speak as outrageously, as nastily as ol' Joe ever did. Putting a presentable mask - dare I mention lipstick? - on hate hardly makes it less poisonous.
"I give you bitter pills in sugar coating. The pills are harmless: the poison is in the sugar." Maybe she's the sugar coating with the whole folksy routine that pulls in certain types....
The dark is rising.
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"In this country, we rise or fall as one nation, as one people. Let's resist the temptation to fall back on the same partisanship and pettiness and immaturity that has poisoned our politics for so long"
Only hours after this statement was made, the first blog was an attack against Sarah Palin and further attacks from BOTH sides to nearly 400 blogs of "partisanship, pettiness, and immaturity."
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"hey nick-gotts sorry you are not man or women enough to serve but im sure you working for nothing means you have helped somebody.pumice ignoramus i'm sure thats what you are called. do you need a defination for that" - rager5
Can anyone here give me a Loony-to-English translation?
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366
What it's like:
Being in a room with a multi-national crowd at a university when Bush is on the TV saying things like, "Fool me once shame on you...fool me twice...uh...uh...well you can't fool me twice."
It's not the country or her potential that was shame-making. It was knowing they were wondering how on earth we managed to get a male version of Gracie Allen into the Oval office. TWICE!
(Actually Gracie herself was very bright, but her character was a W predecessor.)
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Ref 273 Byungmoon
Your remarks are really not worth commenting on, with silly assumptions about what I might think, particularly in regard to Palin, but maybe I can get through your fog.
"Landslide win for Obama"? Does 51 - 48 add up to a landslide?
I can think of a few reasons why the U.S. electorate voted as it did, but it does not mean that they were right or wise. In the 1930s the German people were desperate for change after enduring the injustices inflicted on their country through the Treaty of Versailles. They majority chose to support Adolf Hitler. Now was that wise, or "delusional"?
The majority in Zimbabwe voted for Robert Mugabe and got a man who has destroyed their country and reduced them to a beggar nation.
Majorities are sometimes delusional and consequently do stupid things.
William Wilberforce went against the majority to bring an end to slavery in the British Empire. Did that make him delusional?
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abc 123 abc 123
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"nick gotts...
The problem, of course, is: How do you live with people who are not exactly like you?" - TimothyR444
Fine, thanks.
"This post is filled with a litany of insults directed at those who dare to question or diagree. Is there a place in your way of thinking for tolerance?"
Yes indeed, but not for tolerance of crass stupidity and far-right bigotry.
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Why am I reminded of downtown after late pub closing? (following a "big game")
Good Night All, aspirins in the cabinet.
zzzzzzz
ed
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#386
Alaska,
I use RemOil.
And so to bed.
Tired Sam
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# 394
Nope, Still can't imagine. I'm still proud to be American.
On that note I will leave this post with the quote of post 392. It's imperative that you read it.
In case you forgot who said it. Our new President. See if you can follow that eloquent statement by an eloquent man.
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390/robloop
So when you or similarly anti-Obama posters criticise someone it's disparagement (or crucifixion?), but when liberal posters do it, it is vilification?
I think you are playing around with semantics here. You have been consistently harsh on Senator Obama in both tone and language used, other posters have been harsher still. I think he has been treated to far worse accusations than Governor Palin, with far less basis.
He has been called a Muslim, a Marxist, a terrorist, a socialist, a liar, a deceiver, a person of low moral fiber, and a dismal specimen. The worst I recall Governor Palin being called on these blogs is (repeatedly with numerous variations) an idiot.
Personally if I were to label the treatment of one disparagement and the other vilification (ie painting as a villain), I'd go the other way round. But clearly you must be particularly sensitive about the accusation of idiocy, I dare not speculate why.
I'm happy to agree Governer Palin has been subjected to disproportionate abuse (notwithstanding her "Real America" comments and the newspaper question), but I've yet to hear the faintest acknowledgement from you that the same applies to President Elect Obama. I suspect this is because you genuinely think anything you say about him is fair on the basis that you believe it to be true. However independent you profess to be, to everyone else you come across as very stubbornly blinkered, and completely dismissive of any view you disagree with, and the people expressing them.
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"Does 51 - 48 add up to a landslide?" - robloop
No. These, however, are not the current figures, which are 52.4 - 46.3. Still not a landslide, but a gap of 6.1% as opposed to 3%; a significant difference. Why did you give inaccurate figures?
Of course majorities can be wrong. So what? If you were making comparisons with US Presidents who turned out to be basd choices, that would be one thing; the comparisons with Hitler and even Mugabe are absurd and offensive. (Hitler, by the way, got into power through a back-door deal. Only after he had established himself as dictator did he get a majority in any national vote.) There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that Obama intends to establish a dictatorship, while Hitler had made explicit his intention to do so. Nor, unlike Mugabe, is Obama coming to power after a bitter civil war.
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good nite all ...
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
402: Nick_Gotts
The liberal-biased mainstream media tell me that 350 electoral votes is generally considered a landslide result, Obama is on 349 and North Carolina looks like going his way, so I think by that agreed definition, it will just qualify as a landslide.
Obama's domination of the popular vote is nothing compared to Clinton or Reagan's, however.
As to whether a majority of people can make the wrong choice, the important thing to remember is that "right" and "wrong" are morally subjective terms, not absolutes. To a majority they made the right choice, to a minority they made the wrong choice.
So any majority is wrong, if you're in the minority, and any minority is wrong, if you're in the majority. While most reasonable people (in my subjective view!) would agree that Hitler was the wrong choice, I have no doubt there are individuals alive who still believe he was a truly great and inspirational leader. I think they're wrong, they think I'm wrong, who knows, maybe one day they will be in a majority again. I hope not. There is no ultimate authority of rightness and wrongness, just prevailing popular opinion.
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coresme:
The hilarious thing about the rar righter GOP's is that they see Obama as "extreme left" or as communist/socialist, when in reality he is pretty centre-ground for most reasonable people with a slight left lean. I think the majority will appreciate the sentiment of a little bit of fairness given the recent happenings on Wall st. Besides which, didn't a Republican Administration effectively semi-nationalise quite a few of your banks? At least Gordon Brown could claim to be Labour (and a Scottish Calvinist) and hence effectively socialist. What was Bush's reasoning? Was it safeguard what the history books might and will say about him in years to come? Isn't that what a communist would do? lol
It is hardly just the "extreme right" who correctly point out that Obama is on the far left.
The leaders of congress are certainly very far left, and do not represent the majority of the US population. They will learn that quickly enough when they push through their left-wing legislation, and the public responds.
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From this blog, it looks like the honeymoon was brief...
And who wound up Rager5 ??? Dude - Take a breath !!! The Tuft's administrators are desperately searching their records right now.
Obama clearly won the day. Not sure whether it will be looked on as a landslide (Mondale only managed 13 electoral votes against Reagan), but it was impressive and he has handled himself well up to this point. The addition of Rahm Emanuel will be polarizing, however, and the vanquished conservatives are watching to see if the egalitarian tones will carry over to other cabinet-level appointments.
The constitution is not in jeapordy. A peaceful transition will take place. We will move ahead. Someone please keep Nancy Pelosi in check and the Repubs will respond in kind. Remember Bill Clinton's first act in office ? - he nullified all of Pappy Bush's most recent legislation and declared that he had to do better for the people. Hope Obama will be wiser than this.
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I think that the Republicans themselves will stop people like Sarah Palin for having a voice because she was the single reason for the shifting of the party even 'more' to the right (like folk who watch Fox News Channel) and that eventually destroyed McCain's chances to become president.
I am afraid that it is the wilderness years for the GOP.
It is like the UK Tories all over again after Tony Blair's infamous landslide win in 1997.
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408. susanbird1:
I think you mean 'famous'.
You do, don't you?
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76/85 icetayoa ? thankfully your diatribe has already been commented on ? I would just add that you have a seriously one dimensional mind.
78 MAII ? the above comment goes for you too.
110 ? you picked a pretty good name for yourself ? Loopy
133 ? You are right to be proud ? good for you.
147/151 regarding 125 - ditto, ditto, ditto!!!!
369 - Hey Nick, don't forget GWB went to Yale - I'm beginning to have my doubts about the whole Ivy League thing!
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76/85 icetayoa . thankfully your diatribe has already been commented on ? I would just add that you have a seriously one dimensional mind.
78 MAII . the above comment goes for you too.
110 . you picked a pretty good name for yourself... Loopy
133 . You are right to be proud ? good for you.
147/151 regarding 125 - ditto, ditto, ditto!!!!
369 - Hey Nick, don't forget GWB went to Yale - I'm beginning to have my doubts about the whole Ivy League thing!
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Obama is head and shoulders above other world leaders in intellect and humility. He will most certainly grow in his job. He has consummate skills and razor-sharp intellect and will most certainly out-shine past Presidents in stature, intellect and balance. The world at large needs to be made a safer place. Obama will go the extra mile to ensure there is meaningful dialogue with other world leaders. The support of Collin Powell speaks volumes.
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Re: #288
I know there are some people who believe that Genesis is a literal account of the origin of life and the Earth; that it all happened 6000 years ago (or 10,000 - apparently there is some disagreement); that dinosaurs either were alive within that time frame, or else never actually existed; and that all scientists who claim otherwise are part of some atheist/satanic/socialist conspiracy.
And it is my view that anyone who thinks/claims that is either a lunatic, utterly ignorant, or has some ulterior motive (or all three), and should not be anywhere near a position of public authority.
However, I have also seen the same things said about people who think that God may have tinkered with life over the course of billions of years.
And about people who have simply said they believe their is a god.
And even about scientists and affirmed supporters of evolution who have said that if creationism is mentioned in class, the issues surrounding it should be discussed rather than hushed up.
I understand than Palin, when asked about creationism in schools said something like "teach both", and then when questioned revised her statement to "discuss rather than silence". What she actually believes and what is political spin I can't say, but it does seem to me that a lot of people picked up on one ambiguous statement and extrapolated it into the worst possible interpretation.
Plus, while I knew the comment about falling off the edge of the earth was sarcasm, given both the extreme stupidity of actual creationists, and the exteme knee-jerk condemnation that some people direct against anyone who shows a hit of religion, it can be hard to tell (especially on the internet) what is sarcasm, what is hyperbole, what is a (mistaken) description of someone's supposed beliefs, and what is an accurate description of their actual beliefs.
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So it must be safe to say that Sarah Palin thinks that "The Flintstones" is a documentary, and not a sitcom...
That speaks volumes...
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"scientists and affirmed supporters of evolution who have said that if creationism is mentioned in class, the issues surrounding it should be discussed rather than hushed up." - Iapetus
There are no scientific issues to discuss in relation to creationism: it is an anti-scientific movement, based on lies and distortions. The response to its being raised in science classes should be to point this out - just as if holocaust denialism were raised in a history class.
Palin is a long-term member of a church called the "Assemblies of God", who are Biblical literalists, and also believe that the world is shortly to undergo the "Rapture".
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If Palin is a Biblical literalist, then does she comply with Deuteronomy 23:13?
"And thou shalt have a paddle upon thy weapon; and it shall be, when thou wilt ease thyself abroad, thou shalt dig therewith, and shalt turn back and cover that which cometh from thee:"
Not much call for central plumbing in the home of a literalist, I guess.
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#288 Geomap girl
#413 Iapetus
Iapetus:
yes I was being ironic when I made the comment about McPainful afraid of falling off the edge of the planet.
On a personal level I don't care whether people believe the earth is flat, or if the moon is made of cheese. But if a serious politician comes out with this sort of drivel, then it shows a stunning lack of judgement. The sort of judgement that would make someone, say, chose Palin as a running mate.
And someone with such stunning misjudgement is unfit to govern the USA. Simple really. Certainly unfit to teach my kids science or religious studies.
#288
Geomapgirl:
it was Usher of Armagh (Ireland) who read the Old Testament backwards (I won't comment further or the moderators will object). He worked out that creation was in 4004 BC. He took this task very seriously, going so far as to specifying the exact date - 23rd October. Not sure that he specified a time, as God presumably hadnt invented it then.
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#415
vcm
...Palin and the Flintstones -
hilarious!! I just wish I had thought of that line!!
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pluto61,
Yes, Ussher did specify a time: 9a.m. IIRC.
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28. At 09:21am on 05 Nov 2008, Elmtree01 wrote:
Palin has been portrayed negatively in the press, but their picture is not realistic. She will be a force in future elections, and prove herself far more a centrist than many think.
I'm not sure Obama will do the same. He's far to the left, and if he does not try to move to the center, I doubt he'll have more than four years.-
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think you must have caught a case of Dutch elm disease there,
I advise removal to the stump then burning out the rest.
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The constitution is not in jeapordy. A peaceful transition will take place. We will move ahead. Someone please keep Nancy Pelosi in check and the Repubs will respond in kind. Remember Bill Clinton's first act in office ? - he nullified all of Pappy Bush's most recent legislation and declared that he had to do better for the people. Hope Obama will be wiser than this.
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remember what Bush 2 did when he got in.
same thing
and when discussing energy kept the dems out of the room till the eleventh hour.
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390
roplop
who, after all, did not ask to put herself in the running,
she did.
she sought it.
so stuff off.
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Roplop
you want nasty
"Now, I've got work to do, and being widowed a son to feed, "
seeing what you are like not surprising she took her own life.
god rest her poor soul.
Have a top O day
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366I've never been embarrassed or ashamed of being an American. I can't imagine what that is like.
must be fun ignoring the country you lived in for the last 8 years
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CIVILIIAN SECURTY FORCE SOUNDS LIKE SS.
raging looney
I suspect it would be CSF but I suppose there is one s in it.
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I HAVE TO LIKE HIM I SERVED MY COUNTRY AND WAS SHOT IN MY LEG UNDER BILL CLINTON AND LOST PART OF MY LEG
You know who Raging fool
May I say that there are a lot of people who have DIED because of GW 's "little""quick" war.
strange how service associations supported Obama.
Because he fought for benefits for Vets when Mc Cain wouldn't.
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319 well said british-ish
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I SERVED MY COUNTRY HAVE U?SOCIALISM CHANGE AND CIVILIAN SECURITY FORCE
strange because if you serve your country ,militarily, you get to retire at 25 with medical for life and now (thanks in part to Obama) collage for anyone in your family if you chose to pass it on to a relative.
Sounds like socialism to me.
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RE: # 428
"if you serve your country ,militarily, you get to retire at 25 with medical for life and now (thanks in part to Obama) collage for anyone in your family if you chose to pass it on to a relative."
Actually, you get to keep all your benefits under the Tricare system, but not only that, you get additional moist and delicious benefits from the Veterans Administration.
I just recently retired with 17 years in service in the Army. Two years ago, I wrecked my knee on a training jump, and they retired me with 45% in addition to the hearing loss I suffered in Afghanistan.
The VA will pay for your college education for 3 years if you are rated over 30% disabled. When I say pay, I do not mean books and tuition. I mean ev-ery-thin-g.
Is it socialism? You could make the case to say so... but I prefer to think of it as rewards for service
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I don't know what that utter fool rager was doing with Bill Clinton under the table, but something sticky seems to have got under his caps lock key.
Jacksforge - rager is not worth getting annoyed about. anybody that suddenly says that he is a widower and has to get dinner for his son is basically a liar who has run out of things to argue about.
he is an idiot who was never in the military, but may well have an unhealthy fixation with uniforms, as well as with Clinton. I would like to know, though, whether he inhaled.
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Robloop Ref #395
It seems to me that your grievances are to do with perceived lies and deceitful acts Obama is supposed to have committed. Without going into merits of such claims, those are not good enough reason to defend Palin's well-documented lies and deception (now infamous bridge to nowhere, Troopgate scandal etc etc.) In fact there is no logic to it at all, which I am sure you realize, too. The issue is, has Palin been overly, unfairly criticized and yet Obama has not got the same level of scrutiny? The answer? No, I don't think so. He has been, ad nauseam by the likes of you who brought up those subject over and over again. Bill Ayer, Rev Wright plus of course the late desperate attempt, Khalidi, to name a few. Verdict? Obama is deemed fit to be POTUS. Palin? Back to Alaska to her caribous. That was the verdict of the jury, the citizens of United States of America. There has been no cover up, no attempt to hide Obama's past and/or his past association. Palin got the kind of scrutiny that befits one running for the second highest office. The truth is McC should have done a better vetting. In the end, a proper vet was carried out by the media themselves. Justice was served.
Then again, you call the entire 52 percent of electorate and the media delusional and so according to you the "verdict" does not matter. How delusional.
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John McCain's selection of Sarah Palin as a running mate has to be considered as a mistake of epic proportions. Regardless of any post-election validations, it was pretty clear immediately that Palin was out of her league and, in truth, simply out of the realm of reasonable expectations of anybody that expected to be a Vice-President and second in line to the most powerful and influential political office in the world. Thank goodness we don't have to face that possibility.
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429
Don't worry mate I don't want them to stop.
but fighting is not the only way to serve.
Fire fighters all over this country do not get the same deal.
Hotshot crews and Timber fire crews get no such benefits.
Not the city fire crews normally funded but those that fight to save our country burn to the ground.
Fire jumpers that die jumping into a hell storm.
I just say recognise all your hero's
430
I was trying to annoy rager more, it seemed like it might be fun.
:)
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However it has to be said stop loss and postings are way worse in the miitary.
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The people who keep pointing to the fact that 90 percent of black voters voted for Obama as evidence of racism, only use this deeply flawed argument to disguise their own racism, I'm afraid. Everybody who thinks about this in an unbiased way for just a few minutes should be able to spot the fallacy in their argument.
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"Now america has elected a new president that wants change just like germany in 1933"
As a matter of fact that's what happened in 2000 and 2004. Bush stole those elections on behalf of corporate interest and the military/industrial complex, using fear of an exterior/interior enemy. Exactly what happened in Germany in 1932, except the nazis abused communists and jews, while Bush et al went after terrorists and muslems. The nazis started a war too.
Truth be told, Obama is the exact opposite. Since I don't suppose you're in the 250K+ income bracket, you should have nothing to be afraid of.
The neocons were the ones who wanted to change America in the way you fear so much. Obama just wants to get it back on track.
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Reply to all! Life is about survival nothing else. I will do everything i have to so i can do that! Wether you like it or not or your anti white laws say other wise!
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Remember the rascists always shout racism when someone says something they dont like.
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437. At 6:31pm on 07 Nov 2008, mmarkjm wrote:
Reply to all! Life is about survival nothing else. I will do everything i have to so i can do that! Wether you like it or not or your anti white laws say other wise!
438. At 7:01pm on 07 Nov 2008, mmarkjm wrote:
Remember the rascists always shout racism when someone says something they dont like.
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So why are you not shouting racist?
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I just watched Obama's first press conference as president-elect. I'm impressed!
There were very few "err's" and "ummm's"... nowhere near as many as in a Bush speech.
I was also very impressed by his reiteration to the press that President Bush was still the man in charge, and that he was not going to make policy or decisions until he was sworn in.
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A large percentage of black Americans voted for Obama but more white Americans voted for Obama than for either Gore or Clinton. Not to downplay his personal attributes because I do think they are exceptional, but, some of this is simply due to the effectiveness of the drive to sign up voters.
You'd have to be pretty naive not to be on guard with Sara Palin after 8 years of W. She's saavy and power hungry. She's also a rabble rouser. Her popularity with the mob IS reminiscent of Hitler. Her singular focus IS reminiscent of Hitler. The only thing that keeps a mob from growing is economic opportunity. I'm not just going to hope for economic stability for the next 20 years, I'm going to actively participate in the process of healing this country. The only thing that will keep her base from gaining momentum is if every one of us who voted for Obama gets involved in the political process and stay sharp t