Sinister robocalls
There is something slightly sinister about John McCain's latest method of campaigning. It is well worth listening to the "robo-calls" here.
The messages are nothing like as aggressive as some we have heard in the past (and were used against Mr McCain himself by George W Bush in 2000) but telephone campaigning is a bit like email flirting (I am told!) - there is a sense of being able to get away with more than you would in face to face contact...
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it will surely backfire, as your negative campaigning do...
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This is how McCain is losing the election.
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HELP
Would one of you clever folk tell me how to evoke the spell check on this site please.
Hopeful Mike
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Whenever I receive a 'robo-call" I automatically hang up after hearing the first couple of words. My guess is that those in Virginia will do the same. If the calls could be personalised with the words "Hi David/John/Joe" before the message, that might just catch my attention, but they're not and are so obviously a pitch for a product I don't want or need. I can't see that this will have any effect, other than irritating voters.
#3. Old-Man-Mike:"Would one of you clever folk tell me how to evoke the spell check on this site please." I don't think the site itself has a spell-check, but your computer does - I think it was british-ish who brought this (recently) to my attention. I have an iMac, but I expect it works with Windows as well.
When incorrectly spelt words are typed, there is, or should be, a red line (dotted perhaps) under the offending word. Depressing the 'control' key while clicking the word should/will bring up the correct spelling, along with the dictionary and other options. If depressing "Control" doesn't work, try the two keys to the right of it, which on a Mac are 'Option" and a Mac icon, but different for a Windows machine. If all else fails, Google the question and you'll find the answer relevant to your computer.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Sen. McCain's negative political ads and robo-calls are acts of desperation that are bound to backfire.
His only chance, at this late stage of the campaign, is to act like a statesman and focus on the issues that are important to the electorate and offer solutions in a way people understand. If nothing else, he may be able to salvage what little is left of his legacy.
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It's already backfiring, their lies are already turning off voters, a 92 yr old swing voter, and quite possibly McCain's only potential New Hampshire vote, says he?ll not vote for McCain after hearing the scurrilous robo-lies.
On the one hand you have McCain in the 3rd presidential debate claiming he'll call out any republican that dares to make contentious claims about his opponent, and the next minute the RNC are spending their last pennies smearing his opponent.
The McCain's campaign is about as disorganised as it is dishonest.
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I've heard far worse from the Democrats in the past.
Justin they are actually people on this blog who think you are for McCain.
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We have had a lot of these so called "robo-calls. Most have been from local politicians, a few have been for polling purposes. They are annoying. I hang up immediately.
McCain will not bother with my state because it probably IS in his back pocket.
To Justin Webb
McCain's entire campaign is "sinister" and alarming to me. Smears and slurs may work for the truly ignorant but they are all in McCain's other pocket anyway.
Most of us would like to hear coherent, substantive and intelligent words come from McCain's mouth. He really does have to stay out of Starbucks and off those cans of Red Bull!
At least in the last debate we did not hear "my friends" repeated over and over. This time it was "Joe The Plumber." McCain is not looking very well or acting quite 'sane.'
I feel sad about this because I once had great respect for him even when I did not agree. I thought him a man of honor but the particular "robo-call" you cited is not worthy of him.
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This robocall text is just depressing as in 'how can people or robots sink so low' 'specially when it is along this 'terrorist' BS. Sneaky too - I think the retractions of the Lewis statement regarding Wallace should be re-retracted.
For petes sake Cindy stole drugs from her own charity and Mr. Palin belonged to the secessionist AIP - guess that's more america-lovin' than being on a charitable education board.
Can't wait for the day when we have electro-implants and they can just send these things straight to our brains, excuse me, must go find my tin foil cap and then stand in front of some logos on a wall
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of subjuct but its a dinger;
quote from The Economist
'He [Mccain] needs to dump the dumb populism even though it seems to be to late, alas, to dump the dumb populist-in-chief, Sarah
Palin'
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This message is foul to say the least and dirty handed.
McCain does exactly the opposite of what he says. He says he wants a clean campaigh and today yet again Sarah is going on about Ayers and Acorn. How can we trust these people? Old tricks - for old people for the good of GOP/Bush.
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#1, sorry, that should read:
It will surely backfire, as all negative campaigning do...
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I have to wonder about the wisdom of Robo calls in general.
Weather is is a politician urging you to support his choice, another offer to lower your creditcard debt does anyone want them calling in the middle of dinner.
If you had a vote among the citzens of any country to extend the "Do not Call list" to politcal ads; it would pass overwhelming
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Robocalls? So the Republican party has abandoned the last pretence of humanity, I always suspected GW Bush was animatronic...
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Actually just realized these aren't robocalls; they are something far more dark and despicable, they are SPAM! Spammers are the lowest form of life in the universe, and doesn't the USA have laws against this?
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Nick Clegg tried this once and got a slap.
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Justin:
A more vicious issue is the attacks on a U.S citzen asking Obama a question.
Lead by American's number one hate monger Keith Obermann they are attacking a man unconnected toi the McCain campaign
That is more relevent than Robo calls
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it's shocking in this day and age that excluding anybody from their civil rights is even thought never mind practiced preached (even by robots) as part of a political campaign.
For a guy who talks about small government this is crazy, all the gov have to do is claim anyone a terrorist and there you go no civil rights.
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Justin says, "[email flirting] - there is a sense of being able to get away with more than you would in face to face contact...
You get away with "more" in an email? You sound like a very dull encounter, dear boy.
I just got a mailbox full of Republican literature (I use the term broadly) for both national and local races and all of it was chock full of scare tactics:
"Measure # 57 Will Loose 3,000 Convicted Felons On Our Streets!"
(sigh)
Frank W. Herbert said, "Fear is the mind killer." Conservatives seem to have taken that to heart, knowing that only a person in an unthinking panic would fall for their drivel.
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#18. MagicKirin: "A more vicious issue is the attacks on a U.S citzen asking Obama a question.
Lead by American's number one hate monger Keith Obermann they are attacking a man unconnected toi the McCain campaign."
Assuming you refer to "Joe the Plumber", it was Mr McCain himself who brought up the issue; had he not mentioned it then the man would never have been asked anything. He may not have wished to have been part of the McCain campaign, but for the Candidate he proved to be very useful during the "debate". That he hasn't turned out so well shows again that the McCain campaign fails to check their subjects ahead of time - first Sarah Palin, now 'Joe'. One would think they would have learned a lesson, but apparently not.
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The worse thing the Obama campaign could do is to copy this tactic. They need to let the McCain campign degenerate by itself and reap the rewards on election day.
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I listened to the robo-call. It isn't sinister, just the same old, same old. With so many people yammering at you, after a while it's just noise.
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14. Magic.
I can't believe this. I AGREE with you!.
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We haven't been talking about the election for a while. As an old Reagan democrat, I had planned to vote for McCain on the theory that divided government is careful government. That ended with McCain's choice of Palin.
Palin galvenizes the right wing fringe of her party but turns independents and democrats firmly to Obama. McCain's loss was decided with that one poor choice.
Sadly we are now talking about whether John McCain will be able to walk away with his head held high. I don't recognize the pathetic pandering desperate man on TV. I hope that John finds himself before the election, I once respected him.
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2, guns.
"This is how McCain is losing the election."
Well, it won't help him. People are fed up to the eyeballs with the election drivel. And who wants to be interruped at dinner - again - to answer a another nonsense phone call. What do you do? You hang up.
I don't know about the rest of you, but when an ad from one of these bozos comes up on the television screen, I mute it. Our minds are set. We are voting. And I, for one, want desperately for them to shut up.
As for sinister, McCains's call is amateur hour.
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Perhaps these robo-calls are actually funded by
the Obama campaign; they have the extra cash
to throw around, and they really seem to be doing
the job.
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I'm in Iowa at the moment and the GOP is flooding the place with misleading robocalls. Maybe it will work but it undermines McCain's promise to end the negative tone of the campaign. Cindy McCain also brought up the patriotism issue again which is unfortunate.
It seems McCain is not going down to a dignified defeat. He has ruined his reputation forever.
Anyway, here is an interesting article about racists holding their noses and voting for a black.
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/10/on-road-western-pennsylvania.html
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Why is all your emphasis on McCain? It's as if you want him to pull even with your blogs. As an Englishman in the US, I have to say that this is the worst campaign I have ever seen. It's been utterly despicable - every minute of it. The fact that Obama is forced to discuss Ayers while McCain is not questioned about Liddy, Gramm, Iran Contra, Noriega, and the Keating Five is absolutely insulting to the public. And not a word about Todd Palin and his Alaskan secessionists - despite the fact they were formed by Voegler, who was supported by the state of Iran. Then we have to listen to McCain prattle on about ACORN and how he's offended - after two stolen elections and years of disgusting voter suppression tactics from the right. If only the press would do their jobs. I had high hopes for the BBC - but they are becoming like all the rest.
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As an African-American, 68 years of age, relatives born and raised in Bury St. Edmunds. Having visited there over the years, I've found the people warm and much more friendlier than Americans in many parts of the USA. I never detected or encountered any form of discrimination anywhere. In fact I just might finish my retirement in Suffolk. But what I like to say in regards to our Presidential election.
Subject: WHAT IF????
Consider the following:
What if the Obamas had paraded five children across the stage, including a three month old infant and an unwed, pregnant teenage daughter?
What if John McCain was a former president of the Harvard Law Review?
What if Barack Obama finished fifth from the bottom of his graduating class?
What if McCain had only married once, and Obama was a divorcee?
What if Obama was the candidate who left his first wife after a severe disfiguring car accident?
What if Obama had met his second wife in a bar and had a long affair while he was still married?
What if Michelle Obama was the wife who not only became addicted to painkillers but also acquired them illegally through her charitable organization?
What if Cindy McCain had graduated from Harvard?
What if Obama had been a member of the Keating Five? (The Keating Five were five United States Senators accused of corruption in 1989, igniting a major political scandal as part of the larger Saving and Loan crisis of the late 1980s and early 1990s.)
What if McCain was a more charismatic, eloquent speaker than Obama?
What if Obama was the one who had military experience that included discipline problems and a record of crashing seven planes?
What if Obama was the one who was known to display publicly, on many occasions, a serious anger management problem?
What if Michelle Obama's family had made their fortune from beer distribution?
What if the Obamas had adopted a white child?
You could easily add to this list. If these questions reflected reality, do you really believe the election numbers would be as close as they are?
This is what racism does. It covers up, rationalizes and minimizes positive qualities in one candidate and emphasizes negative qualities in another when there is a color difference.
Educational Background:
Barack Obama: Columbia University - B.A. Political Science with a Specialization in International Relations.
Harvard - Juris Doctor (J.D.) Magna Cum Laude
Joseph Biden: University of Delaware - B.A. in History and B.A. in Political Science.
Syracuse University College of Law - Juris Doctor (J.D.)
vs.
John McCain: United States Naval Academy - Class rank: 894 of 899
Sarah Palin: Hawaii Pacific University - 1 semester
North Idaho College - 2 semesters - general study
University of Idaho - 2 semesters - journalism
Matanuska-Susitna College - 1 semester
University of Idaho - 3 semesters - B.A. in Journalism
Education isn't everything, but this is about the two highest offices in the land as well as our standing in the world. There has to be a reason that, in spite of the above, we are where we are today. What if things were switched around ... think about it. Would the country's collective point of view be different? Could racism be the culprit? You make the call. If the races were reversed I don't think we would even have to hold an election.
And Mrs. Obama's comment, the first time she's felt proud of her country, because so many Americans looked beyond Sen. Obama's colour and accepted him as a viable candidate and nominee for that highest office in the nation.
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Quote from AP News: Nonetheless, McCain elicited boos from a fired-up crowd when he said of Wurzelbacher, "People are digging through his personal life and he has TV crews camped out in front of his house. He didn't ask Sen. Obama to come to his house. He wasn't recruited or prompted by our campaign. He just asked a question. And Americans ought to be able to ask Sen. Obama tough questions without being smeared and targeted with political attacks."
It is lies like this that caused me to switch from being a lifelong Republican supporting McCain to now supporting Obama. Obama never mentioned Joe in the press, it was McCain who thrust Joe into the limelight during the third debate to benefit McCain's faltering campaign. Now McCain want to blame Obama for McCain's actions in making Joe a public figure?? Unbelievable! Lies, lies, McCain has shown himself to be dishonorable and dishonest - we need change we need Obama not another Bush liar. The robo calls are totally offensive, invading our privacy to spread more lies.
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27, guns.
"Perhaps these robo-calls are actually funded by the Obama campaign; they have the extra cash to throw around, and they really seem to be doing the job."
You have a twisted mind. (I like it.)
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Fellow Bloggers,
I received one of these this evening. This followed several kind offers from the local Rep party to drive me to the polls, these mailed alongside messages thanking me for registering for a postal ballot.
Serendipitously:
- The call arrived in the middle of preparing for dinner, at about 7. We dine late on Fridays
- I had not yet had a glass of wine
- One of my honeydews for tomorrow is to swap our plug in phones out for radio ones so we can go to VOIP next week
- 'She who must be obeyed' was willing to 'pull' the phone
Its amazing what a 12 gauge will do to a phone at 30 feet. Damn that felt good. I will be offering my services to anyone with a mobile or blackberry at the movies, in restaurants or on the subway in future.
Sportsman Sam
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#18
Magic,
I agree with you. I also blame everyone.
This poor guy did not nominate himself as a spokesman, though he is a registered Rep. He had a right to ask a question. No one had a right to make him a campaign issue. And once that happened, the public has a right to have the facts.
In this case the facts hurt a man who did not sign up for the attention and focus he is receiving nationally and in his local community.
This sucks for Joe.
Sad Sam
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This a fine example of the personality traits of McCain. He is a ruthless man who wants to win no matter the cost. The spoiled Navy brat who always got his own way riding on the coat tails of his father and grandfather's reputations and successes.
McCain graduated fifth from the bottom of his class. He crashed three aircraft in his fighter pilot career. He has the personality traits a fighter pilot needs but not for a President. Where a calm and peaceful mind is needed to deal with other nations and people. Where one needs to conduct oneself with dignity.
It really frightens me to know he could win and control the country just a few miles from where I live in Canada.
His running mate Sarah Palin is even worse and would say just about anything to become the Vice President. How in the world did this come about? I bet he knew that no one else would take on the task of being his substitute when they knew he probably couldn't win with the idea he knows how to fix things. He said he knows how to do this yet doesn't tell how he would do this. The two republicans are really very strange and it makes me wonder about the people who would actually vote for them. Many of the voters seem to be full of anger and some sort of hate for Obama that makes me wonder if racial hatred is taking a step back into the 60's.
Cold calling people and then telling them vague and untruthful things that are so trivial that they have to embellish the story. I think we are watching a man who is desperate with the knowledge he could very well loose this run for the presidency. I pray for this.
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#27. gunsandreligion: "Perhaps these robo-calls are actually funded by the Obama campaign;"
I'm assuming that you're not serious, but if you are, the message ends with the words "This called is paid for by McCain-Palin 2008 and the Republican National Committee at 202 863 8500." If it were a spurious message, paid for by the Obama campaign, then it would have been denounced by the McCain campaign: it hasn't.
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#30 sugardad12
Beautifully said! Despite the inevitable rant about Obama's qualifications, your words speak truth.
#28 cyrilcroydon
We're a bit further north than the places mentioned in your post, but there must be something to it. Support for Obama does seem to be growing, slowly, reluctantly. Most folks just go about their business, and few talk openly about politics except among their friends.
Still, this does sometimes feel like living in the forbidden country. At work several coworkers just today began talking about moving to another country if a certain someone wins the election. It's painful, because these are coworkers I respect, so I steered the conversation elsewhere before they asked my views. That kind of statement requires either a long, reasoned discussion, or none at all. And it probably would have shocked them that there was what (they at least) would consider a "flaming liberal" in their midst.
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Again, the question of leadership. Although many people know firsthands that incompetence does sometimes make it into management and executive levels, it is very difficult to succeed for any length of time without the ability to find common ground, to listen, to motivate, to trust, to make sound judgments, and to have vision.
Endorfin had a great quote in the last thread re: the "passed over majors," to serve is one thing. To lead is another." I worked for a person for a number of years who was the nicest, most caring person when the boss hat was off... but when it was on, he became a micromanaging, opinionated nightmare. And a CEO I worked with seemed to have all the right answers, the vision thing, all lined up. But made it apparent to his subordinates that he didn't want to know about problems. He, and the subordinates, got canned when after the company was sold the subordinates misled the new board of directors.
Obama might or might not have these things. McCain thus far seems so very, very deficient in these qualities.
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#33. SamTyler1969: "'She who must be obeyed' was willing to 'pull' the phone" - but I'll bet a nickel to a dollar that neither you nor your Hilda drank Horris' favourite "Pommeroy's plonk or "Chateau Thames Embankment". Probably something a little more interesting, although California does make some appropriate rivals - and also some really good wines. Be careful with that shotgun though - the penalties for causing death while intoxicated can be severe!
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#39
David,
Simple rule. Raise a glass, lock the safe. I would never allow a drop to pass my lips and shoulder a firearm. Irresponsible beyond belief.
And yes, of a Friday we favor one or two smaller production wineries on the west coast. About 70% of our cellar is stocked for everyday drinking.
Safe Sam
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#18 & 34
That's why politicians should never personalise their debate or their policies.
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#30
Dad,
All good points. But:
-What if we judged the candidates based on their ability to inspire?
- And then deliver.
Who inspired you today?
Thoughtful Sam
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so McCain on his crazy obsession for cutting spending is going to cut medicare.
according to his website:
"
MEDICAID AND MEDICARE: Reforming The Payment System To Cut Costs. We must reform the payment systems in Medicaid and Medicare to compensate providers for diagnosis, prevention and care coordination. Medicaid and Medicare should not pay for preventable medical errors or mismanagement.
"
http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/19ba2f1c-c03f-4ac2-8cd5-5cf2edb527cf.htm
basically this just gives providers more wiggle room to avoid covering their customers. based on this statement its very vague and open to interpretation.
if you dont have a lawyer to argue your case in this situation you are left out to dry.
how do you define mismanagement in this case? I can see hospitals avoiding medicaid patients because they will feel it is a hassle and too much of a risk.
Its sad that mcCain has sat on tax payer funded goernment health care for the past 30 or so years and deeply rejects the notion that the government should spend money to take care of anyone (because its a waste of money). On a matter of principle he should forfeit his own tax payer funded government policy that has taken care of him for years and use the money saved to pay off the federal deficit.
heights of hypocracy.
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30, sugardad
Obama would be able to use this if it were wise to bring race out into the open. The blacks of America are laying low and holding their breaths. That is the wisest course given the enormous significance of his candidacy.
Keep posting. You have friends here.
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They can not function, unless they attack an belittle anyone who is not like them.
I am not thinking of McCain, GOP, or robocalls.
I am thinking of many of those who post on this blog. (Magic and Marbles excepted)
I am sure they feel they are educated and witty. Unfortunately, this blogs seems to have attracted those who draw conclusions first, then only consider observations that support their conclusions.
I liked Obama until I noticed there is no substance to his promises. There is not even understanding. Though I would not vote for her as President, Sarah Palin is better qualified.
I took time to review Obama's actions in the Senate. It was a short read.
I took time to review's Obama's direction in transportation and air travel. Pathetic and clueless.
It totally eludes me that you mock anyone and everyone, but not Obama. Except for the teeth, a Cupie Doll would be comparable.
Re: #39, David, "- the penalties for causing death while intoxicated can be severe!"
Not if you are Ted Kennedy.
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Sportsman Sam, as for:
"Its amazing what a 12 gauge will do to a phone at 30 feet. Damn that felt good. I will be offering my services to anyone with a mobile or blackberry at the movies, in restaurants or on the subway in future."
Don't you think that a 12 gauge is rather a bit of
overkill? I don't know about you, but I would tend
to create a bit of collateral damage with such
a device.
How about an accurized 1911A1 at 25 feet?
This would present an opportunity to demonstrate
American patriotism and civic duty at the same time.
Or a .357 Smith and Wesson at the same distance?
If the mobile or blackberry was moving, we could
always claim that we were acting to stop Dillinger
in the act of stealing an election.
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Along the topic of the McCain Palin obsession with Mr. Ayers - I guess this points out a platform stance on criminal rehabilitation - not a hot topic but with the US having the largest per capita prison population in the world I would guess McCain Palin stance is there is no such thing as rehabilitation if a man who has become a well-respected educational academic is still guilty for a political protest crime committed 30? years ago? And others are guilty by association?
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30, sugardad.
Two of my daughters went to a famous girls' public school in England. Because of its high academic standing a disproportionate number of its students went on to Oxford and Cambridge.
This got to be unsettling for those universities and one of the applicants from my daughters's school was told at her interview that it would be twice as hard for her to be accepted as it would for someone else. Her reply was, "Then I shall have to be twice as good."
The "twice as good" would apply to Barack and Michelle Obama. The barriers did not hold them back.
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frayedcat, considering that in September of 2001,
Ayers told a NY Times journalist that "he wished that
he had thrown more bombs," one could not call him
rehabilitated.
Throwing bombs is hardly a "political protest crime."
But, unless the McCain camp can come up with some compelling
evidence linking Obama to Ayers in the context of
modern times, they should stop with these inane attacks,
and get back to issues.
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45
To turnabout your assertion, maybe you have some actual observations to support your list of opinions and conclusions?
Sarah Palin does appear just adequately competent to govern Alaska, a state that gets about $2 Federal dollars for every $1 dollar it pays in taxes. Tax and spend, not fiscal restraint. On the other hand John McCain has been a good Arizona Senator.
Ted Kennedy has nothing to do with Obama or McCain on the ballot - Yes, Ted Kennedy makes me think of Chappaquiddick and Mary Jo Kopeckne; despite that, Senator Kennedy now has a lifetime of legislative accomplishment, perhaps driven by that night about 40 years ago. Kennedy, just like Ayers, Liddy, North and Keating, among many others who have questionable deeds or proven misdeeds in their past, is a free man under the law of the land, so your or my critical opinion is still just an opinion.
Obama is hard to attack simply because he is an American kid who's made good: single mom, raised by grandparents, some uprooting travel and some lean times, strong education, then a career on merit. He's sought wide ranging and inclusive counsel and shown refreshing concern for the beleagured middle class. He's given due credit and praise across the aisle in his campaign, and worked across the aisle as a legislator.
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#45. neil_a: "39, David, "- the penalties for causing death while intoxicated can be severe!"
Not if you are Ted Kennedy."
Karma, Neil, Karma.
Nevertheless, your post intrigued me and I went over some of your others. Your reasoning is suspect, for example I quote what you had said on the thread McCain out of Michigan with regard to Jennifer Granholm: "Michigan has a socialist, Canadian governor." For a start, she is not socialist and neither is she Canadian - her family immigrated to California when she was just four years old. It's the same kind of story that is bandied about saying that Mr Obama was involved in violent activities with William Ayres - ignoring the fact the he was eight years old. These are not truths, half truths or anywhere near the truth, but exaggerations which have no place in the discussion of who is the better candidate. Your opening sentence is "They can not function, unless they attack an belittle anyone who is not like them" - which sounds just like yourself. And for what little it may be worth, I consider myself to be both "educated and witty" - and indeed, I made a handsome living being so. Not as clever financially as Sunny Sam, but then, like Marbles, I'm older and wiser, if not yet in her age bracket.
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To those who claim Obama lacks substance, that means the editors of Chicago Tribune and LA Times, two newspapers that have never endorsed a Democrat until today, have suddenly lost their marbles.One of your own, Gen. Colin Powell will endorse Obama on Sunday. Warren Buffet must be a poor judge of character. As must Senator Dick Lugar. 18 million other people who voted for Obama in the primaries must also lack good judgment. In contrast McCain got votes of just 6 million people in the primaries. In the three debates, by most objectives measures Obama out performed McCain on specifics - economy, healthcare, or foreign policy. This is a person accustomed to drafting legal briefs. Go read his policies on Obama's website if you want additional policy details or "substance".
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#48AMM
Is the school over looking the sea by any chance ;)
Lovely countryside down that way....
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Quite unrelated to 'robo-calls', a topic which appears to have fizzled out, I return to icetea's comments on Tightening Polls - he had suggested that the United States was like a corporation and that choosing the President would be much like selecting a CEO or CFO. I was reminded of the English/British nursery rhyme which goes "Half a pound of tuppenny rice, half a pound of treacle, that's the way the money goes, Pop! goes the weasel!" Despite "bail-outs" some things never change - forty years ago there would have been a freeze on such things, but now the obscenely rich get richer, and investors get the shaft.
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#52. ChandraSF: "To those who claim Obama lacks substance, that means the editors of Chicago Tribune and LA Times, two newspapers that have never endorsed a Democrat until today, have suddenly lost their marbles."
Now be fair; both papers have the same ownership and The Los Angeles Times has not endorsed any presidential candidate for thirty-six years, so we cannot tell what it may have thought best during the last nine General Elections. While I agree that Mr Obama is the better candidate, it serves no purpose to suggest that the California newspaper has suddenly changed its political viewpoint.
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54D_C
Interesting, i suggested this too in a previous posting...if there is so much bickering about being qualified or not, then why not have a check list of minimum criteria....those that don't measure up...cannot apply. Simple.
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Give the old guy a break: that's the only he can turn this around. Investing on fear, insted of hope, usually works
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#30 sugardad
Wow, you really raised some amazing points. How interesting is the difference. But how exciting that the US is going to get her first black President. I'm rooting for you over in Australia where the blacks get such a rotten deal, and they're the original occupants.
On my way here from the UK I was asked at customs if I had a criminal record. Oh sorry, I replied, I didn't realise you still needed one!
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sugardad12 30
Great post!
Unfortunately many people in the US seem to think that having served in the military has more value than a Ph.D cum laude.
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I now have a dream that Sarah Palin might be shown Sugerdad's post at No. 30 - and that she might, for once, stop and think and maybe begin to regret some of the language she has been using.
I suppose everyone can dream.
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Post #39; David_Cunard wrote: "#33. SamTyler1969: "'She who must be obeyed' was willing to 'pull' the phone" - but I'll bet a nickel to a dollar that neither you nor your Hilda drank Horris' favourite "Pommeroy's plonk or "Chateau Thames Embankment". Probably something a little more interesting, although California does make some appropriate rivals - and also some really good wines. Be careful with that shotgun though - the penalties for causing death while intoxicated can be severe!"
A fellow Rumpole fan! We find benign convergence at last. :)
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American voters should be extremely careful with the desperate campaign strategies of Senator McCain. America and the whole world are sick and tired of the problems caused by George W. Bush. So we don't need a president who would follow the foot steps of bush.
Let voters wake up and vote for Obama without any sentiments in their minds. Obama is the one who can salvage America and the world from the current problems. McCain would be be a curse to America, no blessings can be derived from him.
IronAnsu
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this places a
very insightful context for the election!
one for dems and republicans.
hope our american friends can view it, there may be restrictions.
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Aquarizonagal,
Actually, both campaigns are sinister, since both McCain and Obama are lefties (left-handed).;-)
ed
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Sugardad (30),
Right On!
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ref #21
If McCain had vetter Joe the Plumber, don't you think Keith and the hate mongers would have blasted him for investigating a private citzen?
Obermann and his crowd are like Goebells.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
A MUST
I can't recommend this more strongly - brilliant television.The American Future: A History, by Simon Schama
Simon Schama travels through America to dig deep into the conflicts of its history as a way to understand the country's contemporary political situation
Peace to all
ed
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Can someone explain why US libel and slander laws are not invoked against the Republican campaign and individuals within it, not excluding McPalin? Is there some phoney macho wild west thing about fighting it out without bothering the sheriff? I just spent three weeks travelling around the US and was disappointed to find apparently not unintelligent, not uncivilised, reasonably well-educated, experienced (and very hospitable, friendly, generous etc, like nearly all Americans and far fewer Brits in my experience) adults still willing to excuse the schoolyard behaviour and glaring character flaws on display by their would-be leaders - with all that that implies for their future conduct in office - in order to carry on voting Republican. It's apparently OK in order to 'shore up the base'. No doubt I'll be told the democrats are doing the same thing - but I don't see Obama or even Biden joining in...
I enjoyed the Alfred E Smith dinner jokes though - restored a bit of faith in the self-styled 'World's Greatest Democracy'. (Who could that be - Sweden? Norway? Obviously noy the US, or UK.)
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Sam wrote:
"Its amazing what a 12 gauge will do to a phone at 30 feet. Damn that felt good. I will be offering my services to anyone with a mobile or blackberry at the movies, in restaurants or on the subway in future."
Being from the UK, and not owning a gun, I'd have to think of other ways of destroying the phone. Let me think:
1) Leave it in the hands of my two year old god son. He'll ether dismantle it, or chuck it down the U bend (done that twice to mobiles I own).
2) Create a cascade feed back loop, in a Star Trek Technobabble type of way; allowing me not only to destroy the phone, but the GOP robo-call messaging centre at the same time!
3) Take an axe to it.
4) Drop it down the hole, where they started to originally repair the gas main, fill it in, dig it up to repair the main properly, dig it up again, to replace the water main, as part of Thames Water's plan to replace all the Victorian water mains. They are now filling it up again, so no doubt they will re-open the hole in a weeks time.
That's it I think.
Out of interest. What is the U.S's obsession with guns? I know the right to carry arms it part of the constitution - but that does mean you are forced to, and I know a lot who don't, my partners father for instance.
What makes you want to carry one?
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Well I have not posted for a while because there is little I can add but I wish to give my summary to the past few days:
Acorn:
An organisation that tries to register the disenfranchised. A good thing if you really believe in democracy. As I understand it:
a) It has sacked and reported people it believes are involved in registration (not election) fraud and has been praised for its cooperation
b) It has been thoroughly investigated politically for the last 8 years with plenty of mud thrown of which little has stuck, at least legally.
c) It has to submit all its registration forms by law, even those that it suspects are false (see Mickey Mouse), because otherwise it can be accused of disenfrachising itself.
d) Fraudulant registrations should be effectively removed by the election commission so it will not lead to election fraud.
e) The repulican case in Ohio seems based on Typo errors (which I am very good at), rather than fraudulant registration.
f) It has been accused of being partisan which i think is the only one of two accusations that sticks. In my view such organisations should be bi-partisan though it does seem that the right would rather they did not register.
g) It has used a bonus for number of registrations garnered which should be reviewed and not repeated as it seems to have led to a minority of people registering other fraudulantly to get those bonuses.
In al,l pretty much a non-issue
Ayers:
a) Did bad things against government buildings
b) Misquoted in the New York Times according to him where he claimed he did not mean he wished he had set more boms but that he wished he had worked harder to stop the war.
c) Has become a respected educationist who socialises with both sides of the aisle in Chicargo
d) Barrack worked with him on educationally based boards because it was an area that interests him, not because he was working with Ayers. Ayers being on a board, like Putin being on the security council, should not disqualify you from working together towards a common goal.
Joe Bloggs:
a) McCain brought him up
b) Media investigated him. He was shown to have been slightly less than he said he was.
c) The question was valid and Obama answered it.
d) Can we move on and leave this smuck alone
Debate/Negative campagning:
a) I wish Obama had hit McCain head on and got rid of all the innuendo. He did not partly because he knew McCain has been crucifying him reputation on it. Still, very disappointing. Now we have weeks of useless sludge ahead.
b) Please McCain, put some policy up there. Give us politically minded sorts some real meat to talk about.
Justin:
a) Disappointing links in the last few generally.
b) Forgivable to the extent that politics has disappeared from this election.
Racism and GOP gatherings:
a) There are racists on either side of the debate and it is still going to take generations to change that.
b) The extremes are always unpleasant as they get more desperate
c) Do not give them airtime unless as one we are condeming the attitude. Both sides abhor the attitude in general. Maybe culturally there are more overtly racist southerners but I have a southern Afro-american friend who says at least in the South he always knows where he stands unlike in the NE where the discrimination is hidden. He hated working in New Jersey.
My view is:
a) I would like Obama to win. I'm an intellectual (though not a giant) and believe politics should be mentally stimulating rather than just appealing to the passions.
b) Neither candidate will bring the world's end. After all the campagning is over people will still talk across the floor.
c) McCain is not Bush though he has severely damaged his reputation. He would make an alright president as long as he is his own man.
d) I want an America that actually looks at itself in the mirror of the rest of the worlds eyes.
e) An America that can see that its actions reflect on its perception in the eyes of others. That advice to a world when it acts contrarilly to that advice is detrimental to the message and the expansion of true freedom and liberty for all.
f) I feel Obama would be better for the world and making it a safer place.
Cheers
Empty
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68. Ed Iglehart wrote:
A MUST
The American Future: A History, by Simon Schama
Simon Schama travels through America to dig deep into the conflicts of its history as a way to understand the country's contemporary political situation
I totally agree with you. Any one with iPlayer access should watch it:(http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00f08h0/The_American_Future_A_History_by_Simon_Schama_American_War/) - It's just gone up.
I think BBC America is also showing it, check on the history section of the great website (that should keep the moderators happy for a while LoL!)
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Perhaps Sam could switch to a 610 gauge. No need to put holes in the wall when a bit of spackling is an option.
McCain is apparently using the tactic and even the firm that helped smeared him in the 2000 campaign.
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Post 68 , Ed
Agree with you. The first program was fascinating. Traced the "American Dream" through from the founding fathers, concentrating on the dream being unfettered consumerism and expansion at the expense of the environment, natural resources. Suggests America's biggest problem will be, again, water. Heaped a mighty bad press on President Jackson!
Quite a play though on Carter being ahead of his time and how the first winds of reality on this were themselves blown away by the cowboy in 1980. And Lake Mead keeps shrinking ...........
Superb television, great photography. And some fascinating Americans.
If you can watch it in the USA please do so.
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#30 sugardad - you speak words of wisdom and reason. i salute you and can only hope this sort of thing catches on - keep up the good work
#42 Sam - are you suggesting that people (and not just in the US) should look to leaders that will inspire them, and then actually deliver on their promises?
I don't know...it's a wild idea, but it just might work!
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I am glad that at No. 48 Marbles bracketed Michelle with Obama.
Her grace and resilience throughout the campaign have been the real inspiration that women are seeking.
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ref #71
I think your view of ACORN is naive.
1 This is not the first election is has engaged in fraud. this time it has been more widespread
2. It sacked the people the Feds caught
3. They are trying to register people to vote in states they are ineligible.
Regarding your view of Obama who should care about how the world see U.S. That should be a factor but does the other nations ever go the other way and see how America sees them?
Considering that American contributes so much in terms of aid in times of disaster, the lack of gratitude does become irratating when we are lectured to. Especially from the European elite parasites.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
ref #69
I am not sure what you mean specificly about slander and lies and why you excludeDEms.
But to answer it:
There is a high threshold for a public figure to sue on slander. That is why people like Obermann are not broke.
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77 ~ magic
Ooooooh - in a nasty mood today.
For the umpteenth time, if you don't like associating with European parasitical elites, why are you using the BBC website ? Why ?
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Majic
"European elite parasites"
you are a parasiste on humanity.
Please try to condct intelligent debate, that excludes "double speak" hence excludes all you arguments.
It would be intersting to conduct a study on you, to figure out wether or not you believe your own propaganda.
Yours and the rebublican arguments are classic Orwellian
i.e.
'The political manipulation of language, by obfuscation, e.g. WAR IS PEACE. Using language to obfuscate meaning or to reduce and eliminate ideas and their meanings that are deemed dangerous to its authority.
Invasion of personal privacy, either directly physically or indirectly by surveillance.
State control of its citizens' daily life, as in a "Big Brother" society.
The encouragement of "doublethink," whereby the population must learn to embrace inconsistent concepts without dissent, e.g. giving up liberty for freedom. Similar terms used, are "doublespeak", and "newspeak".
The revision of history in the favour of the State's interpretation of it.
A dystopian future.
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#30 Sugardad12
Unfortunately, in this or any other election process in any country its not about who the person is - it's who you most identify yourself with.
Education and experience count for nothing in this race for the top job, it's more basic than that - it's about personality, it's about how the candidates manipulate the situation to portray themselves as the ultimate choice.
It's been relatively easy for Obama to stick to the high ground, because McCain has focused on the negative.
And by going negative he has appealed to the minority with base instincts, that by their very nature would never consider voting for Obama.
Neither candidate has the experience nor education to solve the problems America faces, espeically in a single term.
But those who do have the choice will vote for the candidate they believe will fix their immediate problems, swiftly and to the benefit of the nations future.
We can only hope that the eventual winner as a greater wish to deliver on their promises, rather than pander to their own perceived personality.
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#77 Magickirin:
"1 This is not the first election is has engaged in fraud. this time it has been more widespread
2. It sacked the people the Feds caught
3. They are trying to register people to vote in states they are ineligible."
==========
1. You can point us to court records where they have been convicted of fraud as an organization?
2. Again you can back this up with statements from federal officials right?
3. And you can cite speccific examples of this with supporting evidence?
I suspect I already know what the response will be but promise I won't call you a racist if you just post some links to support the above.
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77., MagicKirin wrote:
'Regarding your view of Obama who should care about how the world see U.S. That should be a factor but does the other nations ever go the other way and see how America sees them?'
That's a damn blinkered view. Your country keeps telling the rest of us, that your the greatest country on Earth, therefore if you are such a country, who you elect as president - is a reflection of the country you are (this is only in appearance sake - I know that quite a lot of the country are not the cowboy image portrayed by your present imcubent, but having him as President does make you look like a bunch of cowboys). Gradually bit by bit, your country is becoming redundant as a 'big player.' Economically, environmentally and politically, the rest of the world are looking at India, China, and Europe. Even your own states are by-passing Bush policy - look at Kyoto. You may be military strong still, but that wont last, as China over takes you
'Considering that American contributes so much in terms of aid in times of disaster',
That's not true, you promised but you fail to deliver, (3 times Bush tried to scupper the scarping of third world debt) and even when you do it's got so many strings attached to it's virtually impossible to use it. I should know. I am 1/2 Sri Lankan, and was in the country after the Tsunami. I can tell you plenty of stories, of American aid sitting around not being used, because they refuse to cave in to American imperialistic dictates!
'the lack of gratitude does become irritating when we are lectured to. Especially from the European elite parasites'
Well you may get gratitude if allow your government allows free and fair aid, and don't talk about lecturing, your government does it all the time, trying to bully it's self around the world. Your with us or against us - that's more of a threat than a lecture.
And lastly are these the same European elite parasites, that is getting your country and the world out of financial shtick, after your government put us their?
I don't mind having a constructive argument with the right, but so far I am not getting one!
A pissed off European parasite.
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# 84,
Now that we have been treated to a glimpse of Magic's true inner thoughts, it occurs to be that Europeanparasticalelite would be a good blogging moniker. Now where could we work in the word 'liberal' to emphasise the real depth of our depravity ?
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Many of the arguements here, are but an attempt to fit reality to our own desired view of the world. When our values trancend party guidelines, we can begin to that no matter who wins, Clinton/Bush/?? the system requires changing.
I think that if we actually raised the salaries of Congress and the Senate 5 fold, and blanket banned all lobbyists we would begin to get back to a system of "for the people, by the people". We need individuals in Washington who are incorruptible and put the needs of the American people first not their own interests and those of their friends.
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#77
A couple of years ago I was at a dinner party and we was discussing American culture.
I suggested that America can't have a culture because it has no class.
Seems you proved me right.
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What I find most ridiculous about the negative campaigning is McCain's attempt to make us believe that it's not him, just everyone else around him. In the debate, he states that he doesn't care about Ayers - and then just a few hours later, these robo-calls start. I suppose one of his staff just decided to do that on their own without telling him, huh? Same with letting Palin do all the rabble-rousing at rallies, while he tries to play the sane one. Sorry, but it's fooling no one, John.
As for Joe the Plumber - what irritated me most was McCain saying 'my good buddy, Joe' when he hasn't even met the guy!
What have I learned about McCain this month? That underneath the 'honourable hero' exterior he's a deeply unpleasant man, without honour, dignity or respect.
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#85 80%
Like your idea, but maybe 'Socialist' would be more to the liking of magic.
The very word stikes fear to an American, as does garlic or a stake through heart of a Vampire.
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ref #84
I can't speak to your experience in Sri Laka. But if the aid is there on the ground and your nation is not using how is that the U.S or any nations fault?
I keep hearing oh how the U.S does not pay it's UN due which are unfair burden percentage wise as is the dues for Japan but I do want both countries to be given credit for their generosity.
I post of this board because nmost Europeans are not represented by the Euro-Parasites like Malloch-Brown, Rogge and most of the buearacratis in the EU.
By the way your climate change in the EU seems to be going along very well.
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ref #83
ASA I have suggested you googled any U.S New web page except NBC and NYT, obviously you have failed to do so.
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30: Heartfelt thanks.
77: do 'other nations ever go the other way and see how America views them?' Yes they do, and sometimes they really don't appreciate those American parasitical policies that exploit their country solely for the benefit of the US, without any understanding of their society or culture; or US vindictiveness when it is unable to get its own way: that's why the US gets itself in so many foreign policy tangles.
More tellingly, the following this morning from the Atlanta Journal Constitution newspaper that has endorsed Obama:
"And it?s not just a matter of policies. A third term under another Republican president would inevitably be populated by much the same cast of GOP staffers, executives and bureaucrats that has run Washington for so long and with such disastrous results. McCain?s campaign staff illustrates that problem perfectly because it is populated by many of the same people who ran previous Bush campaigns. They are also still trying to run the same basic Republican playbook that the party has used since 1980.
In fact, the competence of McCain?s campaign staff is itself cause to question the candidate?s executive abilities. To some degree, the rigors of creating and running a campaign organization can be a test of the skills needed to create and run an administration. And even many Republicans acknowledge that the McCain campaign has been poorly organized and erratic, lurching from one crisis to another without the sense of a strong hand at the tiller."
That observation is both telling and true and is exemplified perfectly by the failure of the McCain campaign to organise sufficient state offices in the red states because they didn't think it necessary: a folly of which the consequences are now becoming apparent.
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85. eightypercent wrote:
'Now that we have been treated to a glimpse of Magic's true inner thoughts, it occurs to be that Europeanparasticalelite would be a good blogging moniker. Now where could we work in the word 'liberal' to emphasise the real depth of our depravity ?'
&
89. TheFeldkircher wrote:
'Like your idea, but maybe 'Socialist' would be more to the liking of magic.
The very word stikes fear to an American, as does garlic or a stake through heart of a Vampire.'
How about:
Europeanparasticalelite-oftheguardianreadingsandalwearing-democraticleft!
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Well, it seems the Mods (who are as Gods) are right on the case! Since my direct quote was objectionable, you'll just have to go to the source to see it.
Meanwhile, might I suggest that certain words can have their poison drawn by using them in situations which make their supposed power to offend reveal its shallow and stupid nature. I should know. I grew up in American Apartheid. Here's a man who knows what I'm saying
Peace to all
ed
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Hi Mark, good to see you back!
And what does this say about the upcoming Obama administration? Nothing but good, so far as I can see.Roll on January!
ed
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political ear bashing to the ninth degree nodern technology in politics was to be expected and as with any technology can be abused.
if polititians need to use such methods they are showing how desperate and underhanded they are and shouldnt be trusted.
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From my favourite financial columnist:
Please let me know if the link is unobtainabler for any reason, and I'll archive a copy....Well worth making the effort every week, so far as I'm concerned.
Foxhole ed
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93:
Or how about Eurositicalelitist?
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95, Ed
Thanks. That was also the view of the AJC.
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# 94
Good one, Ed.
The Mods are mysterious in their ways. We now know that the N word is banned. Yesterday I used F word but it was banned even though I asterisked out half of it.
But it's always surprising that you can say crap, especially when responding to Magic.
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I have not followed the US elections very closely, so do not lean towards one candidate or the other. That said I personally think that it is the Presidents advisers that will define the success or otherwise of the presidency. You only have to look at Rumsfelds influence over Bush, especially in Iraq and Afghanistan.
One thing for sure is that both candidates are far superior than our current Prime Minister in Britain. This is a clip of him in parliament a few years ago. I will leave it to you to decide if he is Prime Minister material.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=6VaP1HB7Vew
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90. MagicKirin wrote:
'I can't speak to your experience in Sri Laka. But if the aid is there on the ground and your nation is not using how is that the U.S or any nations fault?'
Firstly because some of the federal aid was distributed by a right wing christian charity (I shall not name it as this will probably get blocked if I did), which 'Pastor,' President espoused inflammatory views on Muslims and Hindu's (again I won't repeat them, because a) they are repulsive, and B) I'll get kicked off here for good), and Sri Lanka is mostly Hindu, with a large minority Muslim.
Secondly your lovely state department, has classified all Tamils that want a country of their own, as terrorists, even the political groupings who just want federalisation (works well in your country), therefore they can not receive the aid, and as the Tamil areas are the worst hit areas...
Lastly, the charities that could place the aid on the ground, without it being hovered up by the terrorists, (Oxfam, is one example), were not allowed to distribute the aid, as they have family planing polices.
So the aid was sold on the black market, which unsurprisingly is controlled by the terrorists, at extortionate prices, which the Tamil population can't afford. A large chunk of the money raised by Oxfam and others had to be used to pay for the goods, that were meant to be free, so the only winners in this situation, is the Charity that got a lovely tax break and the terrorists.
'By the way your climate change in the EU seems to be going along very well.'
At least we are trying to do something, and admit we have a problem. Bush has only just admitted there is a problem, whilst (may be) your next VP still denies there is a problem, which is ironic considering she comes from Alaska, and when the Gulf Stream finally switches off she may freeze to death!
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Junkie,
Thanks for the exposition and perspective on Sri Lanka.
Shanthi
ed
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102
"Sri Lanka is mostly Hindu, with a large minority Muslim."
Utter nonsense. Sri Lanka is roughly 70% Buddhist, 15% Hindu, 8% Christian and 7% Muslim.
The essence of problem there is the age old one of the dictatorship of the majority vs accommodating minority populations.
The Singhalese majority (over 80%) have been at loggerheads with the Tamil minority (about 15%) over independence, more limited autonomy, political power and various other issues for decades.
Whether the LTTE response is "terrorism" or "freedom fighting" depends on your point of view, I guess. Personally I don't think that blowing up people is the right way to achieve political ends, even though it has worked before elsewhwere...
The misuse of the Tsunami aid (by both sides) is only one example of this seemingly insoluble and intractable problem, though your description of what happened is very partial.
Misinformed comments don't help a very difficult problem.
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Maybe, just maybe if John McCain had been doing more of this on the stump
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irXS4Q7mUKQ
we might have a different complexion on the race to the white house.
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Something to divert Ed for the afternoon:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1M8zxyDFrQ
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=F5BybSb6W4g
;)
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Robocalls only annoy and alienate their recipients, which is the last thing anyone seeking office should be doing.
To be fair, both sides have employed them, with nefarious intentions.
I recall, but can't cite the source, that there was a robo-call featuring Jesse Jackson on the afternoon of election day 2000 to St. Louis black neighborhoods charging election fraud, urging the listeners to descend upon the polls at the close of the day. Also heard anecdotes about the same sort of thing in Florida in 2000, featuring Congressman Wexler.
Anyone remember this? Not certain how accurate the memory is.
When they ring up, I hang up, and I suspect most do.
Waste of money, time, goodwill, and corrosive to the political culture.
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Something to divert Ed for the afternoon:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1M8zxyDFrQ
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=1G5O21jBY6Y
;)
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If anyone's still interested in the topic, here
http://www.anonymousliberal.com/2008/10/theres-no-such-thing-as-voter-fraud.html
is an excellent article explaining why voter fraud is a non-issue, indeed almost a myth.
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Sorry about the repeat ... the system said it wasn't posted ;)
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45 says "Though I would not vote for her as President, Sarah Palin is better qualified."
I guess you meant "Though I would not vote for her as President, Sarah Palin is better experienced." Which is fair to say. But she does not have basic intelligence or curiosity but has enormous ambition.
I would take intelligence and inexperienced any time against dumb and experienced.
Her statement about "Alaska proximity to Russia helps foreign policy experience" demonstrates lack of basic reasoning skills. She knows that Alaska is next to Russia though.
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#91 Magickirin
"ASA I have suggested you googled any U.S New web page except NBC and NYT, obviously you have failed to do so."
And obviously Magickirin I've expressed my view in too roundabout a manner so lets make it clear: It's time you put up or shut up.
Either back up these slanderous statements or cease making them. I didn't ask for news sources I asked for court records or other information from OFFICIAL sources to back your allegations, 'obviously' you don't have any.
And my screen name is a contraction of As A Scot...
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Hey all quick clarification. I have just noticed that I have cocked up my stats Sri Lanka is mostly Hindu, with a large minority Muslim.
Should of read Sri Lanka large MINORITY is mostly Tamil Hindu, with a Muslim %.
Incidentally roughly 80% of the population is Singhalese.
Hope I didn't confuse people!
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The late night roundup
Colbert is fab
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# 105
Feldkircher kindly posted the videos of the candidates at their slap-up dinner this week.
Y.....es, John McCain does a good after dinner speech. But did anyone watch the Barack video alongside. That man is SO cool it's unbelievable - and elegant in his tribute to McCain as well.
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FWIW Sri Lanka breakdown
Peace
ed
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For Guns and Doug, so y'all won't be the last off the fence.
() Peace
ed
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As residents of the contested state of North Carolina, we're being bombarded by these calls. They're not only revolting, they're devious. In order to keep one of us listening, some campaign staffer tacks a personalized greeting ("Hello Dan!") onto the start of the automated message.
Sadly, current U.S. law exempts calls from political organizations from our federal "do not call" list (see donotcall.gov), which we signed up for as soon as it became available.
I'll be voting for Obama this year, if only because his campaign never bothered us at dinner time.
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Re: #115 Couldn't agree more.
Obama at Al Smith dinner
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'though your description of what happened is very partial.'
No it isn't I was on the ground 1 month after the devastation on the east coast, and spent almost a year there working in relief camps (my sisters still out there) and it almost cost me my mental health. So I have first hand knowledge of the hypocrisy of US-Aid.
True there is an ongoing civil war going on caused by stupidness on both sides, but relief shouldn't of been interfered with by any party, particularly the U.S, it has just exacerbated the situation- the LTTE used it as propaganda against the Bandreniaka regime, and their friends in Washington.
If the state department had been more careful in the way it handled it's aid, and allowed reputable organisations like Oxfam to distribute the aid, instead of only giving aid to organisations that don't promote contraceptions, usually the wrong type of groups to give aid to in religious and ethnic tense areas.
'Whether the LTTE response is "terrorism" or "freedom fighting" depends on your point of view, I guess. Personally I don't think that blowing up people is the right way to achieve political ends, even though it has worked before elsewhere...'
I agree with you there. Blowing up people isn't the way forward anywhere, but it's a bit hypocritical of the State Department to call them terrorists, when they are in the middle of an illegal war!
Also it has just played into the LTTE hands, and though they have had there political offices closed in the west, and their banks accounts frozen, it has just allowed them to get finance from other nefarious sources. It has also let the LTTE to fragment, and allowed even more ruthless people to take power the eastern splinter group, has gone back to recruiting children, in direct violation of the Geneva and Un Conventions, but the state department don't recognise them as terrorists!
The wording of the Terrorist declaration released by the State Department was so vague, that it painted every Tamil as a terrorist, making harder for people truly trying to help to get funding - I should know my cousin set up a weekend education and youth club group of Tamil refugee's - a policy I would thought the government would be quite happy to support, in there English drive, but no because of the LTTE's International Terrorist status (and other groups caught in the badly worded declaration, copied shame to say by our government), our local council couldn't give us money, unless we vetted every single member, and their families, so basically if any member had any political leanings the council couldn't fund them. They are political refuges, of course they are going to have political leanings, they fled a civil war.
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# 113
And, adding my threepennyworth, Sri Lanka is one of the most beautiful countries I have ever visited. It could have so much going for it and it is tragic that it is racked by war.
Good luck to you websitejunkie and - in the best traditions of this site - may I wish you :
peace
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116. Ed Iglehart wrote:
FWIW Sri Lanka breakdown
Thanks for that. I do love the way the CIA website has a kids section.
Let's Play Junior Spy!!
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sugardad12, I couldn't have put it better.
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Oh dear, what will those "cuddly" righties think of next. The fatuous phone calls are the least of it, of course. John McCain and Co.'s political shenanigans are as nothing compared to their truly sinister policy directions. Escalation of the carnage in Iraq, militant force projection throughout the rest of the region and wider world, assault on the natural world and plenty of "benign neglect" at home. Perhaps not quite as "aggressive" in their lethal politics as the beyond-sinister Bush but plenty more to worry about in their own fashion than frivilous phone calls. In fact being president may be a little like telephone campaigning and email flirting - there is a sense of being able to get away with a lot more sinister things than you would in face-to-face contact.
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77 MagicKirin
"Considering that American contributes so much in terms of aid in times of disaster, the lack of gratitude does become irratating when we are lectured to."
While I generally believe my country, Australia, should be giving more in Aid, wishing we were giving 1% of GDP, I am rather bemused by your comment.
After the 2004 Asian Tsunami, the Australian governement quickly pledged about $US820 million in Aid. The inititial offer from the USA was $35 million, about 3c per person.
Australians were shocked at the USA's paltry response to a disaster of such horrific proportions. We were stunned and derisive on seeing your President announce that response. Perhaps we were not the only ones, because your offer was increased to $350 million.
Australians private donations, as I remember, more than matched the official aid of $890 million.
Now you must note that Australia has a population of about 21 million and the USA about 300 million.
Please reread the previous sentence for emphasis.
In table format.
Country - Population - Aid for Tsumani
Australia - 21mill. - $820mill.
USA - 300mill. - $350mill.
(I acknowledge also the large donations from other countries, e. g. UK citizens about $US600 million - not sure about their government, Canada $US500 million, Iceland and Norway over $US180 million each. Yes, I know aid promises are still outstanding although I don't knowof the countries not keeping their pledges.)
We did not respond for gratitude, nor thanks, nor do we see it as a reason to take a pass on being criticised by outsiders.
We saw devestation on a scale beyond our experience and just wanted to help.
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#117, Ed, thanks for posting that, but, why would
I care what a radio talk show host thinks?
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Monty Python could've written it
;-)
ed
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Michele Bachmann wants a witch hunt
Cringe making interview
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Two matters of perspective:
1. US Foreign aid is in Millions, US military expenditure in Billions, and US debt is in Trillions.
2. On the day of the Tsunami, approximately the same number of people died (in that disaster) as are daily added to the Earth's population.
Just the facts, Ma'am
;-(
ed
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People who enjoy sadistic rituals will probably call them a brief flirtation and smoke a cigarette after. For the rest of us, sane people, it's highly offensive to be blasted with hateful, lies meant to smear another person's character - Kind of an ugly gossip routine.
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The robocalls are rediculous, and hopefully most of those people have caller id and will ignore them anyway. There's nothing worse than getting telemarketing call or a political rant call around dinner time. It will annoy more than help, espspecially with the media pounding on it so hard.
It's strange that mostof the people that accepted the patriot act are the ones most fearful of other government controls such as health care etc. yet wiretapping warrentless searches, imprisionment for an undetermined amout of time ,are all right. Lets say i felt strongly about an issue and decided to march in protest for it, and the govnt. decided i was some sort of threat, my life could cease to exist as i knew it. The fearmongers in our government have put a strangle hold on us, and we're so afraid to do anything, lest they do just what i discribed.
Obama is correct. We need to start investing again in ourselves. We are so far behind in education, that we have to import smart people from other countries, who by the way are starting to leave, because we only let them rise so high. There is a key word to Obamas campaign and thats "sacrafic",we all might have to sacrafice a little for the greater good, unfortunately most people think thats a four letter word.
We,ve already given over our rights to extreme fear, socialized healthcare, now that should be a no-brainer.
I don't think the world looks upon us favorably anymore and rightly so. as an American i cringe when anyone especially a politician says we are the greatest nation on earth. I've been w/ an Aussie for ten years and they have a pretty great place!
We are becoming like an old west hollywood set, and more and more countries are looking behind the facade and not finding much. I love my country, but we're in a bad tailspin.
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To#64Edinglehart
Hello!
So am I, left-handed that is, and most sinister as well!
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And, if I may be indulged while reflecting upon the Tsunami, I'll just note that in the areas not denuded of the natural protection of Mangrove and coral reefs, the damage and loss of life was much less severe than in areas cleared and "improved" for shrimp farming or cultivation of tourism. If anyone doubts me on this a simple search with mangrove and tsunami as search terms will provide plenty. You don't even need to do one on blasting coral for beaches, or "blast fishing"....talk about sowing the whirlwind...
;-(
ed
My favourite oxymoron of all is "ecotourism"
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"Throwing bombs is hardly a "political protest crime.""
Of course it is. Just ask any member of the European antifascist resistance during WW II. It is a mighty strange comment from somebody who calls himself "gunsandreligion" anyway. If bombs can't be a form of political protest, pray tell me what gubns have got to do with religion? You're gonna shoot everybody who adheres to a different creed than yours?
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#108
I quite like this as well...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jf1y9s73Nos&NR=1
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#70
Webby,
I like shooting things. Mostly Skeets.
The 'obsession' with guns is a few things:
- We have an awful lot of deer and for a working Joe shooting a couple and sticking them in the freezer is a good way to supplement your income
- Someofour wildlife can and will kill you
- Sense of safety and comfort in rural America. This is tough for Europeans to believe but our population density is far lower than yours. Large parts of middle America are unincorporated, i.e. no local police force. If you need help the state police may show up after a couple of hours. having a gun gives you a security blanket, right or wrong.
Gunner Sam
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Ed,
Back from town ... in case you wondered about the rationale for my earlier post ... I've seen a few 'last defence of Sarah Palin' comments recently that she has 'good legs' ... I thought I'd just remind folk what 'hot' really looks like: or put another way, that young lass is more qualified to be VP than Palin ;)
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#128, Candace, thanks for posting that.
As a person who is still undecided, I have been
investigating this issue, and am starting to conclude
that, however imperfectly the Republicans are
pursuing the matter, they are basically stating
the truth.
Why did Obama lie on TV in front of hundreds
of millions of people about contributions to
ACORN from his campaign?
I shall have to investigate further, because more
allegations are coming up, which I would like
Obama supporters to comment on.
I shall post some links early next week, because I
would like Justin to take a look at them, and
I doubt that he reads past the first 50 or so
posts to his blog.
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# 128
Candace, I am glad that you raised the Michele Bachman business. I saw it and found it so distressing that I think I went into denial.
What Bachman is doing is the very reverse of political leadership which should be about bringing people together and leading them up out of their prejudices and hatreds.
What Bachman is saying has strong resonances of thirties fascism.
I worry about the Republican party. At least in Magic's despised UK, the party leader would step in and say that sort of language has no part in a political campaign. But I believe that with the annointment of Palin, the party cannot now start to distance itself from the kind of hysterical polarisation in which both she and Bachman indulge.
Please, please let me be proved wrong. Please let us hear her colleagues (especially John McCain) say that she is wrong.
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#134, jimigorilla, I don't know how it works in
your part of the world, but in the USA we prefer
to use a little device called a "ballot box" to
change our government, instead of bombs.
That's more or less why we're having a election,
isn't it? I'm sorry that you don't understand
the concepts of democracy.
A "political protest crime" in the US is having
a protest march without a permit, or something
like that. You can get hauled down to the
local police station and given a ticket.
Don't try to tell me what kind of person Ayers
is, I lived through the 60's here, and I've seen
it all.
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#64 & #132
I'm left-handed - does that mean I can run for President too?...
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To Websitejunkie
Thank you for all your posts. I really like to get information from those who actually have 'boots on the ground' so to say.
Though I did also enjoy your post #70 regarding your two-year-old and cell phones. We have received many calls from our little ones who are very good at hitting the right buttons. They also have very creative ways of destroying phones. The twins urinated on one in a contest to see who was most accurate.
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To Sugardaddy
Welcome!
Your post was very excellent. I have had the same thoughts. Please stay with us here.
Most are very open to the ideas of those who post on this site.
Some of us can be a bit silly at times but the humor is not mean. We all need a good laugh from time to time to promote our health and reduce the blood pressure.
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#141, TheFeldkircher, yes, you can run for president.
If you want to run as a Republican, however, it
has to be an invisible hand.
#142, aquarigal, you are doubly-blessed. I hope
that your phones were of the "prepaid" variety.
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Feldkircher,
Don't be gauche!
;-)
ed
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My dear gunsandreligion, I too have lived through the sixties. Never bothered me any. In fact we could use some of that revolutionary spirit right now. it is sad and ludicrous at the same time how the American neocons have managed to impress upon people like yourself the firm belief that any views that do not comply with their reactionary agenda are by definition "un-american". The fact of the matter is that nothing is un-american as far as opinions go. That is what your precious constitution is supposed to mean. Please explain to me why scientology (to name one silly americanism) isn't un-american and socialism is?
And I am still waiting to hear what guns and religion have in common. Unless you're a militant muslim terrorist, of course. If you're a christian, I'd suggest you go and re-read your bible, especially the parts about christ.
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#134 #140
We may bomb infrequently w/in our own country, but we sure drop enough on other countries to "spread democracy"
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Btw, gunsadnreligiom, how did you ever achieve your independance if it wasn't by throwing boms and the like?
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To Samtyler1969
When we were young and newly married, the phone rang at an inappropriate time. My dear one ripped it from the wall and hurled it out the door and into a pond. Phones were hard wired into the wall then, not plug in as now.
It cost money we really could not afford at the time to replace the phone. After that we just disengaged the phone receiver.
The shotgun approach really does seem a little too extreme to me.
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Gunsandreligion, "As a person who is still undecided". Are we supposed to believe that? While you're at it, be a good chap and go and investigate how W won the 2000 election to, will you?
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Thankyou sam for giving an honest answer
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To#141Feldkircher
I say go for it!
LEFTIES UNITED!
I read somewhere that a large number of our presidents have been left handed. Could this be because left handed people are in our RIGHT minds? Have fun with this one!
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#144 - Thanks
#145 - Gaushe is my middle name,
So now I'm in the 'Game' I think I'll have Hugh Hefner as my VP
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#150, jimigorilla, I'm not going to even bother
responding to your posts, because if you bothered
to read back posts, you would realize that I'm
not a neocon.
I just want to know who I'm voting for. It's OK
if that person has flaws, but I want to know what
they are.
#147, middlecroony, I agree with that! So much
for the Bush Doctrine!
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Actually in addition, I understand why some people want one or two, say a hand gun and a riffle, but why would any one want to own a semi automatic riffle?
That film of Palin firing one (I presume that's what it is), makes me wonder what she uses it for? I mean is she going to strafe a moose?
If so it's not going to be good fro another rug. It will be all full of holes. Why would people want them?
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To#145 Edinglehart
We lefties are allowed to be as gauche as we choose to be.
When we rule the world.......
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To#144Gunsandreligion
It was not my phone so I could really enjoy my daughter's dismay. She was very naughty as a child.
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#135, TheFeldkircher, may I suggest Church Lady
as VP? Here is a clip of her interviewing Pat Robertson.
(O.K., it's Al Franken as Pat Robertson, but he's
really good, isn't he?)
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#136. SamTyler1969: "The 'obsession' with guns is a few things:
- We have an awful lot of deer and for a working Joe shooting a couple and sticking them in the freezer is a good way to supplement your income"
Surely that does not apply to you? And I suggest that not all American hills are alive with the sound of deer hooves - and neither is year-round hunting permitted in all fifty states.
"Someofour wildlife can and will kill you"
Then you - and others - should not live where such wildlife abounds.
"Sense of safety and comfort in rural America. This is tough for Europeans to believe but our population density is far lower than yours. Large parts of middle America are unincorporated, i.e. no local police force. If you need help the state police may show up after a couple of hours. having a gun gives you a security blanket, right or wrong."
Might have some relevance for those who really do live in rural America, but what about those who do not? I don't think this reasoning really answers the question - after all, other countries have rural areas, wild life and game animals - and still have strict gun control. America's "obsession" with guns more likely harks back to frontier days when possessing firearms was a necessity in order to exist - not today though. Gunner Sam, you can do better than that!
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To#153Thefeldkircher
Hefner is too old. What about one of his women for VP?
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Gunsandreligion, everybody has flaws. Few have as many as McCain. Why concentrate on Obama, who at least appears to be a more or less decent person, for a politician, that is?
It's easy to say you won't answer to posts if you don't have an answer, I suppose.
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To#158Guns and religion
The Church Lady!
Much better choice but I think we will need more than lipstick to render her 'hot' for many voters. Some surgery perhaps?
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#158 gunsandreligion
Weeeell isn't that special.....cool, funny and Hitlers Brain - classic.
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152. , aquarizonagal wrote
I read somewhere that a large number of our presidents have been left handed. Could this be because left handed people are in our RIGHT minds? Have fun with this one!
Oh Joys of being ambidextrous!
Oh and thank you for the kind comments.
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#160 aquarizonagal
Exactly my point - but we'll have the best dinner parties the White House will have ever seen.
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#138. gunsandreligion: "Why did Obama lie on TV in front of hundreds of millions of people about contributions to ACORN from his campaign?"
To keep the record straight, the viewing number for the final 'debate' was 56.5 million, not "hundreds of millions of people". And since you are keen to know the truth about the opposing candidates before you decide who to support, you may like to look at this.
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Justin,
Are you really out there? Please respond to post #30.
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This what happens if you have Karl Rove's protege as your campaign manager. Before McCain fired his original manager and took on this guy -- and a bevy of Bush campaign people -- he was running a more or less clean campaign. Since then, there's been nothing but Obama bashing and innuendos. I had actually been planning on voting for McCain, but since he's adopted this Jerry Springeresque type of campaign, he's lost my vote.
It also doesn't help that his VP pick is well used to this kind of backstabbing and innuendo campaign -- it worked very well for her through her beauty queen career, I'm sure. Cute winks and nasty innuendos will NOT make her a good VP -- it may have worked in high school, any one of her five colleges (that it took her to get ONE degree), and on the pageant circuit, but I doubt that it will work once she runs up against some actual movers and shakers in the world.
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#146; #148
"Revolutionary Spirit" seems by your definition the IRA used alot of "Revolutionary Spirit", from what I remember those people were not so well thought of in the UK, and rightfully so.
Comparing the "Revolutionary War" to Ayers lowlife's is truely a great analogy.
You obviously know as much about Revolutionary spirit as you do about the Revolutionary war.
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Hefner and His Women
Feldkircher - you may be too late. Acording to Ryan Lizza, Christine Hefner, Hugh Hefner's daughter who runs Playboy Enterprises, has been supporting Obama since 2002.
Maybe the fellow who ran Penthouse could help you out - or did he go broke ?
Madonna may have more time on her hands now that she's going to be single again.
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I just came back from a short trip to Daytona Beach where in addition to dodging thousands of bikers (Bike Week) I endured a lot of dirty looks in what looked like an ocean of McCain/Palin car and bike stickers. The same goes for my neighborhood in Central Florida where there are only two Obama signs, including mine, in a development of about 400 houses. Jacksonville, in Northern Florida is even worse, in fact, my daughter suggested that I may want to take my Obama car sign down when I go to her house tomorrow.
Hopefully the pollsters know what they are talking about and South Florida has enough Democrats to carry the state (hard to believe considering all the Cuban Americans in Miami), because if what I see is evidence of what is going to happen in this state we may be looking at a McCain landslide of historic proportions. Lets hope the silent - and conspicuously invisible - majority decides to vote...
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To#159Davidcunard
I once lived in rural Mississippi for a time and I will share this with you. Many deer were killed by motor vehicles. We were so over run with deer that I especially dreaded driving any where at night. People there mostly hunted for meat to feed large extended families through the winter.
We really are NOT gun crazed here in the US and many people DO still hunt to supplement the family food supply.
If the economy gets much worse, there will be a lot more people out hunting!
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Domenick, a worrying report from Florida.
On the other hand, I see that Obama had a turnout of 100,000 at his rally in St. Louis today. That's some turnout !
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#170 eightypercent
I can see where your coming from.
However, I think Mad-onna could make a reasonable US Ambassador to London.
Oh well, back to the drawing board on Veep choice...
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Domenick, again
Fivethirtyeight still has Florida as a toss-up so previous Obama projections may have been over-optimistic.
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Many comments pointing out the bias in the reporting that gives major airtime to the Republicans and which is not balanced to the Democrats. I want to point out that Justin et al are merely following a story: the twists and turns of the McCain campaign, because the big story in this election campaign is that the Republicans are in trouble, and the big question from this is can they somehow find a way to bounce back.
There should be a discussion regarding McCain and Liddy, Gramm, Iran Contra, Noriega and Keating, for instance, but Obama is winning on policies, message, style and him, himself. All the press know it and sometimes they let it slip that we are witnessing an awesome campaign from the Democrats, a "well-oiled machine" in which they have "perfectly positioned" themselves for a comprehensive victory.
Looking at the last debate for instance, McCain was rambling, incoherent, filibustering, while Obama gave one of the best final statements ever recorded, but you won't find one editor anywhere will admit that. It's just the way the story is reported. It's a story, and if things don't fit the story, they're left out.
McCain is getting frustrated and it shows. Sarah Palin only consolidated the fringe, so that didn't work. Joe the Plumber was a fake, so that didn't work. Robocalls are making people sick, so that didn't work. Every twist and turn the McCain campaign takes is a risk, and as we are witnessing, they are all to the downside.
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I can imaging that this picture will make McCain & Palin go green
http://s.wsj.net/media/obamastlouis_Q_20081018135311.jpg
That was Saturday in Missouri and according to the news there were 100,000 people there. Truly amazing!
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#172. aquarizonagal: "We really are NOT gun crazed here in the US and many people DO still hunt to supplement the family food supply."
I have no statistics about food supplementation, but as a Los Angeles resident, I can vouch for the fact that guns are not just for hunting: gang violence, shooting on freeways and innocent people caught in the cross-fire. There being no more current numbers that I could find, these from 2004 may be of interest:
The number of people killed by guns in the United States during 2004 was 29,569. Of those, 16,750 were suicides (56%) 11,624 murder (40%); 649 unintentional shootings (4%), of which 311 came from legal intervention and 235 from undetermined intent.
That computes to eight-one people a day dying as a result of firearms. Crazy? You tell me!
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53, kecsmar.
No, the other famous one. We visited the one by the sea, but it was less academic and more like a finishing school.
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#171 DominickVila
Lets hope the silent - and conspicuously invisible - majority decides to vote...
I also hope that this will happen.
Dark days my friend, let's hope your light guides their way...
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To#164Websitejunkie
Thanks, and so am I, also.
Many lefties are ambidextrous because we have had to become so. Could that mean we actually access a whole brain?
Interesting, no?
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#67. nessie1945: "Justin, Are you really out there? Please respond to post #30."
As you should know by now, like Royalty, Justin almost never responds directly but very occasionally references a comment in his opinion piece at the head of this blog. He has everyone else here to answer for him.
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76, eightypercent.
Michelle Obama went to Princeton. That was a bad choice for a black (but who would turn down Princeton, right?). The school is very exclusionary in its attitudes, not just as it concerns blacks, but for whites too. They seem to have a class system of several divisions. It may be something like this: old, old money, old money, nouveau riche, we don't know them, who is that.
I have spoken to a couple of blacks who attended Princeton and it did not sound like a joyful experience. I am not so sure that it was racist, however. Had my children gone there they probably would have been dumped in with (and restricted to) "internatiional types."
Actually two of my children did visit Princeton to look it over. They gave it a thumbs down and attended a different ivy league school. Blacks were not set apart at their school.
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And definitely Bobby Kennedy Jr. is my new hero he drives it home every time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqV7h2ODsn0
It was about time that someone mention Liddy and the AIP.
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McCain's using 'scare tactics' like, as you said, were used against him in the last election. Word is that Karl Rove is behind this. I HOPE a majority of the people here are smart enough to recognise this tactic for what it is and ignore it.
Phone calls like this won't work on a lot of Americans who, like me, have answering machines and caller ID. I don't answer anything unless I know who's on the other end.
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#4 - 9.54am 17th October
#182 - 8.31pm 18th October
Both David_Cunard
Now there's commitment - you go dude.
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All that love for Obama, have any of you seen what he has done for Illinois? Don't worry I'm from there and i haven't either.
Wherever the Dems have control local homeowners pay through the nose. My mother in Chicago a senior citizen at the age of 70 pays $7000 dollars a year in property taxes for a small townhouse, she pays this from her only income a Social Security check, that's with a Senior Citizen discount! She owns her home and still has to put away $600 a month to give to the local Democratically controlled county at the end of the year, and for what? Ask someone on New York, Boston, California what they pay in property taxes, all Dem controlled all high in taxes.
I guess it's easy for most Europeans to favor Obama, he does seem like a good guy, the difference is that Europeans won't have to put up with that tax hikes that Americans WILL be paying, every Dem raises taxes he will be no different.
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#149
But Aqua, it was fun! I'm all wireless now and moving to VOIP is going to save me about $100 a month. Which is amazing really.
#159
David, on the wildlife front. My weekend home is in Pennsylvania. Not central PA but between Philadelphia and the Pocono's. We have, in order of nastiness, Cottonmouths, Copperheads, Black bears, Coyotes and a large number of smaller critters with rabies. That is pretty much common for anywhere in the NE outside of a city. It isn't practical tonot live where the wildlife is.
For hunting we have deer and turkey mostly, with some duck and pheasant although that is mostly farmed. We also have some of the best clay shooting in the country. Plenty of reasons for wanting a gun.
In the case of deer in particular, unless we reintroduce Mountain Lions (as the have in California and which regularly kill and maim joggers and boy scouts. If only they preferred golfers . . . .), then they are a nuisance. We reached the point of one RTA a day in my township last year because we are over run. As a result the deer season (if you include archery and flintlock hunting) runs September through January. One or two deer in a chest freezer goes along way to feeding a family up near Allentown and the old steel areas which are very depressed.
I don't hunt for meat, personally.And would only kill if I ate it. I do, however, believe that Skeets are the evil spawn of Satan and must be destroyed. So I have a skeet gun, and a sporting clays gun plus an old side by side for gits and shiggles.
#155 Webby
I cannot see any reason to own an assault rifle, sub machine gun or the like. Only the crazies . . . .
Sad Sam
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174. wrote:
I can see where your coming from.
However, I think Mad-onna could make a reasonable US Ambassador to London.
No keep her, she can go and live with the Bechams. We want Britney!!
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98, Mark.
You guys are too high-class for me. Why not just change "Magic" to "Jerk," or "MaJerk," if you want to sound French.
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181. aquarizonagal wrote:
Thanks, and so am I, also.
Many lefties are ambidextrous because we have had to become so. Could that mean we actually access a whole brain?
Interesting, no?
I know a lot ambidextrous are Dyslexic.
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Re: #171. The Obama rally in St. Louis drew 100,000 today.
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ref #139
I never criticized the UK I criticized the EU which polls I have seen shown that many Europeans do as well.
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172, Aqua.
"...and many people DO still hunt to supplement the family food supply. If the economy gets much worse, there will be a lot more people out hunting!"
Do you have a recipe for ex-presidents?
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To#178Davidcunard
The way you have stated your information about guns does make our use of them seem very CRAZY.
I have had not had this experience so my position may be much different. I have lived in rural places for most of my life so have a much different perspective than you. A gun is just another tool that is used when needed.
I had some flippant responses to how we could reduce gang violence but I do respect your opinions and realize you speak from the heart. I honor that.
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194, addendum.
I was thinking a marinade with lots of spices. I am sure you will understand why.
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191, website.
"Many lefties are ambidextrous because we have had to become so. Could that mean we actually access a whole brain?"
What about people who are not lefties, just, plain ambidextrous, like me? That makes my whole brain better than your whole brain, because I don't get to use it by default. Hah!
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October 18, 2008
Gallup Daily: Obama Maintains Lead
Among registered voters, Obama now leads 50% to 42%
USAElection 2008Gallup DailyAmericasNorthern America
PRINCETON, NJ -- The latest Gallup Poll Daily tracking report from Wednesday through Friday, including two days of interviewing after Wednesday night's final presidential debate, shows Barack Obama with a 50%to 42% lead over John McCain among registered voters.
Obama's eight-point lead among registered voters is similar to his margin among this group over the last several days. Gallup's likely voter scenarios show a closer race. Gallup's expanded likely voter model, based on respondents' answers to questions about current interest in the election and intention to vote, shows a 50% to 46% race, which is a more narrow lead for Obama among this group than in previous days. If turnout in this year's election follows traditional patterns by which the voting electorate skews towards those who usually vote as well as those who are interested in this year's election, the race shows Obama leading at 49% to 47%, where it has been among this group for three days. (To view the complete trend since March 7, 2008, click here.)
-- Frank Newport
(Click here to see how the race currently breaks down by demographic subgroup.)
Survey Methods
For the Gallup Poll Daily tracking survey, Gallup is interviewing no fewer than 1,000 U.S. adults nationwide each day during 2008.
The general-election results are based on combined data from Oct. 15-17, 2008. For results based on this sample of 2,796 registered voters, the maximum margin of sampling error is ±2 percentage points.
For results based on the sample of 2,572 "traditional" likely voters (based on the model taking into account current voting intention and past voting behavior), the maximum margin of sampling error is ±2 percentage points.
For results based on the sample of 2,263 more broadly defined likely voters (based on the model taking into account current voting intention only), the maximum margin of sampling error is ±2 percentage points.
Interviews are conducted with respondents on landline telephones (for respondents with a landline telephone) and cellular phones (for respondents who are cell phone only).
In addition to sampling error, question wording and practical difficulties in conducting surveys can introduce error or bias into the findings of public opinion polls.
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I agree with Sam about the dangers of deer overpopulation in the Northeast. I used to live in Maryland before my retirement and I had several close calls when deer ran in front of my car. They are beautiful, and I would certainly not kill one - or anything else for that matter - but something must be done to reduce the deer population in some parts of the country.
As for poisonous snakes, welcome to Florida!
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#140
"I don't know how it works in your part of the world, but in the USA we prefer to use a little device called a "ballot box" to change our government, instead of bombs."
In the USA, yes, but US governments don't seem to apply the same principles to others.
Iraq? Grenada? Chile? to name but three.
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#176 "Looking at the last debate for instance, McCain was rambling, incoherent, filibustering, while Obama gave one of the best final statements ever recorded, but you won't find one editor anywhere will admit that."
#171 ....The same goes for my neighborhood in Central Florida where there are only two Obama signs, including mine, in a development of about 400 houses.
Why would any thinking individual vote for JM and SP? Because their brains are stratified and they cannot see beyond their "isms". (Racism, nepotism, patriotism capitalism, etc) People are so afraid to be different and truly independant. It is the great paradox of this country. One that prides itself on supposed individualism, yet is so easily led by the culture and the power of the group.
We far to easily give creedance to the lofty position of POTUS without requiring accountabilty. Where are the ombudsmen for the middle class, who have seen their lives devastated during the past 8 years, yet continue to vote for the Republican ticket. Is their sense of self so low?
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193.MagicKirin wrote:
I never criticized the UK I criticized the EU which polls I have seen shown that many Europeans do as well.
The problem with the EU is that it is undemocratic. It's nether a confederation of European countries or a union of European countries. It tries to be both.
For example the euro will eventually fail, as the one size fits all policy wont fit countries with conflicting economic polices.
In the States, though each state has control of a state budget, raising or lowering local taxes (is that right?), sort of like the English county system. However the broad economic polices are made in Washington, IE income tax level (or what ever it is called in the US), rate of interest, controlling or not controlling financial systems, are controlled at the federal level,
In Europe countries governments can do both, (except raise and lower interest rates). There is no definition what the central bank does, and what a countries government does, and so you get conflict.
Europe has ether got to disengage, and become con federal, as it was in the days of the EEC, or it has to fully merge, and become a proper European Federal Union, in similar lines to the United States.
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#195 Aqua
A gun is just another tool that is used when needed.
-------------------------------------------------------
Now, there was a time that I would have agreed with this statement, having grown up in a house with a 12-gauge. (locked away safely I might add)
I never felt 'safer' with this weapon around, nor did I feel any compulsion to go out and 'shoot' something.
But having lost a friend who took his own life with his father's gun, I find it hard to reconcile your comment.
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Ref 187
"My mother in Chicago a senior citizen at the age of 70 pays $7000 dollars a year in property taxes for a small townhouse, she pays this from her only income a Social Security check..."
As a retiree and a middle class person I sympathize with the difficulties your mother is having meeting her financial obligations. However, I think it is important to remember that the bulk of our property taxes go to education and state and local infrastructure improvements. I live in Florida, my property taxes are only $2,000 a year and, not surprisingly, this state ranks third from the bottom in quality of education and our state roads, bridges, and power grid are so antiquated and in such a state of disrepair they resemble a third world country. Ultimately, we, the voters, decide what is important to us and we set our priorities accordingly, there is no such thing as a free ride. If we want good services we must pay for them (except for the Federal government which borrows it from China and sends the bill to our grandchildren), but if we don't mind competing with Haiti in quality of life all we have to do is vote Republican to ensure we reach that distinction within our lifetime.
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Post #200; badgercourage wrote: "In the USA, yes, but US governments don't seem to apply the same principles to others.
Iraq? Grenada? Chile? to name but three."
I can add a few more: Cambodia, Hawaii, Cuba, the Philippines, Puerto Rico, Vietnam, Guatemala, Nicaragua, Honduras, Panama, Iran, and Afghanistan.
These are all examples of the USA violently forcing regime change in foreign nations by various means.
Sometimes it was done via the sponsorship of local militias and terrorist groups; at other times the Americans simply invaded a weaker nation, beat it to a pulp, overthrew the government, and installed a Washington-controlled puppet.
Americans seem to believe that democracy is too valuable a thing to be left in the hands of foreign people. It's an interesting perspective.
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Ref 201
"Why would any thinking individual vote for JM and SP?"
The best way to answer your question is to quote what my next door neighbor saw my Obama sign in my car: "You mean to tell me you are going to vote for that fn?"
I am sure there are some voters that will vote for McCain because of loyalty to their party, the abortion issue, religious affinities, and because their priorities are more in line with the fiscal and economic policies of the Republican party, but make no mistake, racism is a factor, the only question is how much.
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199. , DominickVila wrote:
As for poisonous snakes, welcome to Florida!
That's not i nice thing to say about your Governor!
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ref #139
I had to google to find out who Michelle Bachman was.
I disagree with many of her positions including intelligent design in school.
Having said that it is amusing to hear Obama supporters complaining about her supposed association with McCain.
Many of you have said, don't bring up Ayers, Wright etc.
The problem with some Obama supporters is the unwillingness to hear and listen respectfully to other points of view.
1. Joe the Plumber
2 Geraldine Ferraro
3. Citzens in St Louis who the sherrif is threatened to arrest for slander
4. Student who get poor grades because their political views don't agree with their proffesors.
The new McCartheism is definitly promoted by the extreme left.
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To #191Websitejunkie
You could be right about the dyslexia which was unknown when I was a child. I struggled in school but always believed it was because my first six years were in a multilingual household where three primary and two secondary languages where combined into one core means of communication.
I will very soon be 80 but I can still read, right to left, left to right and upside down. I have been told that this is not normal past about eight years of age. I love words but can not always remember how they look or if I am using the word that conveys my meaning.
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To # 194Allmymarbles
I really do like to cook but recipes for shrubs are very hard to create. If we all get hungry enough, I could be motivated to come up with something.
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Post #187; ChicagoPolishDude wrote: "Wherever the Dems have control local homeowners pay through the nose. My mother in Chicago a senior citizen at the age of 70 pays $7000 dollars a year in property taxes for a small townhouse, she pays this from her only income a Social Security check, that's with a Senior Citizen discount!"
What about the states and counties where Republicans are in control? Does nobody pay property tax? Is it all free? Or s it just massively cheaper than the Democrat-controlled states and counties?
Care to enlighten us?
By the way, I found a list of property taxes by state (here: http://tinyurl.com/ysk8on) dated around Feb. 2007. I doubt that much has changed since then.
The highest average property tax on that chart was $5,352 in New Jersey. Notice also that the property taxes average less than 2% of the property value. Less than 2%! Even in New Jersey!
So your mother's townhouse must be in a damn good area if she's paying $7,000 a year **WITH A DISCOUNT!** And that townhouse must be worth a ton of cash, eh?
Of course, she can always move to a lower value property if she thinks she's paying too much tax for the house she's in. It's a free market, after all...
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208. , MagicKirin wrote:
Student who get poor grades because their political views don't agree with their professor's.
I haven't heard of this can you enlighten me?
Thank you
PS My girlfriend pointed out to me that my blog entries make sound pro Obama. I'm not, just think his best out of the two.
Personally I think a more left wing candidate is needed in the States.
Go on you should try it!
Look at this lovely lefty all shiny and bright. You know you want it go on!!
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To#203Thefeldkircher
I am so sorry!
Consider this:
We all want to accord blame when something painful happens. How much easier is it to blame an object than to look at all the complicated human feelings and relationships that contributed to the loss of your friend?
I was not being silly about guns just stating how they are viewed and used in many rural areas.
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Post #208; MagicKirin wrote: "The problem with some Obama supporters is the unwillingness to hear and listen respectfully to other points of view.
1. Joe the Plumber"
I wasn't aware that Joe the Plumber had expressed a point of view that was even vaguely legitimate. Can you please give me a few quotes?
I heard him claim that he was considering the purchase of a $250,000 business - but it later turned out that this was a lie, because he doesn't have enough money to make such a purchase in the first place, and is therefore not considering it at all.
I heard him claim that he would be worse off under Obama - but it later turned out that this was a lie, because he actually earns less than $250,000 per year and would therefore receive a tax *cut* from Obama.
So I'm still waiting to hear a valid, relevant "perspective" from Joe the Plumber. If he ever comes out with one, please do let me know.
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To#197Allmymarbles
I am beginning to feel the very creepy vibes that haunted me when I once lived near Donner Pass.
Could this be a preview to Soylent Green?
I think I am too old and tough to process and would need a lot more than just a marinade to make edible.
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#82
I don't really expect an answer in the chat section, but I'd love to hear what an obviously Right-biased person would have to say to the points in#30. There is a serious double standard in American media.
For instance: It's not unusual for Conservatives to nail anything handy, but when sexual antics are mentioned, they ignore the Republicans who've gotten chummy with Congressional Pages and passing blondes to stare meaningfully at Bill Clinton. Newt and John McCain have gotten a pass; can you just imagine how wild the (supposedly Liberal) press would go if Obama behaved that way?
And Sarah's good ol' boy had a stint with the AIP. But his less than patriotic associations got very little coverage, while Ayres (now a respected professor) is in the news a lot.
Double standard? And how.
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So its 5 minutes past midnight for me.
So I bid you farewell, its been a pleasure.
I wish you all a good-night, good-evening even a good-day depending on your zone.
Adios
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208. At 10:42pm on 18 Oct 2008, MagicKirin wrote:
ref #139
I had to google to find out who Michelle Bachman was.
I disagree with many of her positions including intelligent design in school.
Having said that it is amusing to hear Obama supporters complaining about her supposed association with McCain."
The woman is a nutcase and like most far right politicians against everything and for nothing.
Except power and war.
"Many of you have said, don't bring up Ayers, Wright etc."
Who has said this? No one.
"The problem with some Obama supporters is the unwillingness to hear and listen respectfully to other points of view."
And the problem with people like yorself is your inability to take seriously people who belong to any other ethnic group but yourself.
And we all know where that sort of philosophy ends up.
"1. Joe the Plumber
2 Geraldine Ferraro
3. Citzens in St Louis who the sherrif is threatened to arrest for slander
4. Student who get poor grades because their political views don't agree with their proffesors."
This is weird. You think anti-semetic students should be tolerated by their professors?
"The new McCartheism is definitly promoted by the extreme left."
Better look up what it is before referring to it.
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215. Ataquarizonagal wrote:
To#197Allmymarbles
Could this be a preview to Soylent Green?
Very good film .
I think I am too old and tough to process and would need a lot more than just a marinade to make edible.
I don't know you are probally nice curried, with a nice Beinjal and Ocra side dish.
Now where's my rice steamer!
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Dear 215,
Don't worry about being tough. Soylent Green was a 'food product' sort of thing. Lots of different ingredients all glorped up together with vitamins added and made into little crackers. I'm sure you'd be wonderful.
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#186. TheFeldkircher "Now there's commitment - you go dude."
Hey dude - how long have you been posting here? If you cared to track back you'll see that I've been very committed to the Democrats, way back to the primaries, although I would have preferred Hillary Clinton rather than the present candidate. Had she been selected then there most likely would have been no Sarah Palin and the gap between McCain and Hillary would be greater than it is now between and McCain and Obama.
I don't see that you suggested to another poster how he might utilise a spell check, although Ed I. would probably know better than I (he's our resident HTML expert), so don't use your sophomoric sarcasm on me, dude.
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Ref 208
"4. Student who get poor grades because their political views don't agree with their proffesors."
My eldest grandson is a student at the University of North Florida, in Jacksonville, a bastion of Republicanism. He has been harrassed and insulted because of his atheist views, which unfortunately he likes to make public. He failed a class even though he understood the subject and believes he did well in the exams.
Prejudice and bias can be found everywhere but, quite frankly, I think a liberal professor is more likely to accept differing opinions than a conservative one. The same goes for politicians and religious leaders.
Calling invasions of foreign lands crusades, Generals who publicly claim our God is better than theirs, cultural intolerance, labeling anyone who doesn't support our interests a terrorist, Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo, waterboarding, renditions, or recent statements about Hindu Gods conspiring against our security and the need to support "our God" were not made by liberals...
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To#197allmymarbles and all other posters who may believe I AM crazy.
We are mostly vegetarian at my house and would not consider eating fat meat.
It is so bad for your health, no matter how many herbs, spices and gallons of (probably cheap) wine in to which you might soak this inferior source of protein it would taste awful and nor really provide any real nourishment.
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210, Aqua.
"I really do like to cook but recipes for shrubs are very hard to create. If we all get hungry enough, I could be motivated to come up with something."
OK, so we dont cook the shrub. We mount it on the wall, along with dead fish and meese.
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To#224Allmarbles
We have never mounted the remnants of dead meat on our walls in this house. If we can nor eat it or compost it, we are not interested.
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222, Dominick.
"My eldest grandson is a student at the University of North Florida, in Jacksonville, a bastion of Republicanism. He has been harrassed and insulted because of his atheist views, which unfortunately he likes to make public."
There is nothing wrong with your grandson making his atheistic views public. Don't religious people make their views public? I have always been an atheist but generally didn't discuss it exept among friends.
Then I got older and wiser. I am now outspoken and whoever doesn't like it can lump it. Our voice has to be heard. We have the right not to be dominated and only by being vocal can we assert that right.
I don't know why your grandson brought up the subject in class. Was it pertinent to the course, or was he just looking for an argument? If the latter then he has to ask himself if he was baiting his professor.
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To#219Wesitejunkie
Sorry, I have never developed a taste for the spices involved in the making of curry.
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allmymarbles & aquarizonagal.
Ladies Read both your comments.
Shrub eating is quite a delicacy ask the Knights that say Neee!
Some shrubs can been eaten, Rosemary is one, heather and lavender are others.
Any way back to cannibalism.
Did you know that the highest % of CJD in a given population is in the Maori's of NZ?
The reason being when the Polynesians (the Maori ancestors) first arrived in New Zealand, they discovered that the country was already inhabited, so they eat them!
We of course know what happens when you starting eating the protein of the same spices as you.
History and archaeology shows that when disaster strikes, and civilisation collapses homosapiens turn to cannibalism for survival.
So rest assured aqua, there will be someone out there wanting to put mint on your chops!
And with that I shall say good night to you all.
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#188. SamTyler1969: "My weekend home is in Pennsylvania . . . We have, in order of nastiness, Cottonmouths, Copperheads, Black bears, Coyotes and a large number of smaller critters with rabies. That is pretty much common for anywhere in the NE outside of a city. It isn't practical to not live where the wildlife is."
Whadya mean "it isn't practical?" You can't kill off all the foxes, skunks, raccoons, rodents and bats that are out there just because they might carry rabies. I suppose that if you were in California you'd live in areas where there are regularly fires and then, when the house was burnt down, you'd build in the same place, which is what happens out here. I had a dear friend, a very famous playwright, who lived in a canyon in Malibu - his house was destroyed with such intensity that the heat melted the rebar in his swimming pool. He built again and there was another fire. Famous, more money than Croesus, but no common sense!
" . . . unless we reintroduce Mountain Lions (as the have in California and which regularly kill and maim joggers and boy scouts.)" Not quite true - Governor Reagan signed a moratorium on hunting mountain lions in 1972 since there were only around 600 still living, since then that have increased naturally. There are great periods when there are no attacks, and when there are, they are in areas where hikers are not vigilant. There's nothing "regular" about them!
There is wild animal life even in Los Angeles county, but houses are built where they should not be, encroaching on the habitat of some of the critters you mention. For someone who's so dedicated to Democratic philosophy I would have hoped that included a respect for the ecosystem and homes of the animal kingdom rather than building/buying a 'place in the country'. If you stayed in town, think of the gas you'd save along with everything else!
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223, Aqua.
You are not crazy. You are a gourmet.
So, Ms. Gourmet, have you ever read Mark Twain's "Cannibalism in the Cars"? The narrator spoke about Fred with great nostalgia.
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I know that the polls suggest that the election is a "done deal", but this blog has become a cookery programme!
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#229 David_Cunard
I believe you're referring to this:
http://www.theonion.com/content/video/californians_gather_to_celebrate
"...California residents are, once again, participating in the annual tradition of being shocked as wildfires burn their mansions to the ground..."
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#221 David_Cunard
Sir you mis-understand me, I was refering to your 'POSTING' capacity, not your political disposition nor your web-skills.
Perhaps I should have been clearer in my attempt to pass on my salutation.
But judging by your 'fire-brand' response I will be less inclinded to do so in the future.
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211 Sankari
I can try to enlighten you but from your condecending attitude I'm not sure you will listen anyway.
I have lived in Colorado, North Carolina as well as the UK for about 7 years, currently in Columbia, SC. I own a place I bought for 211K 5 years ago. 2 years ago my taxes were at $2800 not bad and I wasn't complaining last year my taxes dropped to $1400 because the local government implemented an additional 1 cent sales tax on goods other than food. And before you say the schools are terrible the high school in my neighborhood was just completely renovated and looks more like a university than any high school I've seen in the south side of Chicago were I grew up.
Typical Liberal, if you don't like the taxes your paying move, where are you from let me guess it's run by the Dems, maybe you should move you'd save a little cash.
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16. AsaScot wrote:
"Actually just realized these aren't robocalls; they are something far more dark and despicable, they are SPAM! Spammers are the lowest form of life in the universe, and doesn't the USA have laws against this?"
Then does that make the Obama campaign's use of software to auto-contact all entries in an iPhone users address book telling them to vote for "the messiah" the same as a bot net?
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Dominick,
FYI I grew up in Winter Haven and schooled in Gainesville. Sad to hear it confirmed that less has changed than we might wish. Plenty of good times in Daytona too.
Vaya con Gaia
ed
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Case-hardened,
Evidence?Complain about this comment
231, oldnat.
You have to admit, Old, that the election blather is pretty boring, especiallly after one year.
The only thing that would wake us up would be a strip polka debate. I don't watch the other debates, but I would watch that one - probably with horror.
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Simon21 wrote:
208. At 10:42pm on 18 Oct 2008, MagicKirin wrote:
ref #139
I had to google to find out who Michelle Bachman was.
I disagree with many of her positions including intelligent design in school.
Having said that it is amusing to hear Obama supporters complaining about her supposed association with McCain."
The woman is a nutcase and like most far right politicians against everything and for nothing.
Except power and war.
(very englightened of you)
"Many of you have said, don't bring up Ayers, Wright etc."
Who has said this? No one.
(plenty of posters and if I had time I would list the ref)
"The problem with some Obama supporters is the unwillingness to hear and listen respectfully to other points of view."
And the problem with people like yorself is your inability to take seriously people who belong to any other ethnic group but yourself.
(So because I happen to criticize the Palestinians for electing terrorist I am not against all ethnic groups?)
"1. Joe the Plumber
2 Geraldine Ferraro
3. Citzens in St Louis who the sherrif is threatened to arrest for slander
4. Student who get poor grades because their political views don't agree with their proffesors."
This is weird. You think anti-semetic students should be tolerated by their professors?
(well first you are assuming that conservative students are anti-semetic and racists. and even if one was a teach's job it to teach not make political judgements. That is why Chomsky and Churchill should have been fired years ago)
"The new McCartheism is definitly promoted by the extreme left."
Better look up what it is before referring to it.
(In this case it is persecution of people with differening views because they hold those views. That is what the Daily Kos wing of the Democratic party does. Ask Joe Lieberman?)
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59. SpeleoKarst wrote:
"Unfortunately many people in the US seem to think that having served in the military has more value than a Ph.D cum laude."
Yeah but it is another politician with a Law qualification and we have seen their kind before. :-D How come we don't get more with engineering qualifications. A far less slippery crowd. ;-)
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To#231Oldnat
People do want to eat! Meals should taste good!
Maybe we are all weary of politics and would rather trade recipes instead of political barbs.
Sorry,
I do like you and we have often agreed but many of us here are becoming very tired of this political contest.
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To#230Allmymarbles
Yes.
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#223. aquarizonagal: "We are mostly vegetarian at my house and would not consider eating fat meat.
It is so bad for your health . . ."
Although straying far from the subject of "Sinister robocalls", you raise a health issue which may be difficult or impossible for Americans to accept. The consumption of meat, red meat in particular, is a leading factor with regard to cancer. My doctor, who is very reliable, told me that when Japanese immigrants to the USA adopt an American, meat-heavy, diet, the incidence of cancer rises measurably compared with those who maintain their traditional Asian eating habits. After I had a malignant tumour removed, it was suggested to me that I refrain from eating meat entirely, but if that was not possible, to greatly reduce my consumption.
Since prevention is better than cure, perhaps a national health care plan should include the warning that Eating meat may be dangerous to your health, although the farming industry (is farming actually an "industry"?) would be vociferous in its opposition. Can anyone conceive of an America without steaks, prime rib and hamburger? Probably not, but it would be the most healthy way to live.
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posting 30
How many black people are in the house of commons, the house of lords, and when was the last time the UK considered a person of color to be Prime Minister. If America has huge double standards what then do you say about Europe, name 1 major European Leader that is not white.
I'm proud that Obama is running, the fact is I like both of the cadidates, it truely is historic but I'm afraid that the Europeans have a long way to go before they see anything like what is happening in the US.
Does the US have racists of course it does, does Europe you bet they do they just don't advertise it as much.
Next time you go to England ask an English person of Pakistani decent if they ever feel discriminated against, but I think you already know that answer.
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#233.TheFeldkircher: "Sir you mis-understand me, I was refering to your 'POSTING' capacity, not your political disposition nor your web-skills.
Perhaps I should have been clearer in my attempt to pass on my salutation."
Perhaps you should; but my apologies for misunderstanding your intent. With regret, I've often been accused of being "defensive" and unfortunately blogs such as this don't always (if ever) contain the message behind the words. My mistake.
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McCain's campaign has become too bitter and
sometimes even hostile to the Obama
campaign. We never see McCain smile. Palin
is another story. What is she hiding with A.I.P.
in Alaska??? She should tell all!! When Sarah
Palin speaks, she should check her facts before she opens her mouth!!
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240, Schwerpunkt.
I, for one, would like to see more diversity in the members of Congress. They are almost all lawyers. Think of the different points of view we would have if there were engineers, doctors, farmers, technology experts, chemists, etc.?
It looks like we are going to get a comic, but a comic in Congress is nothing new.
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Ref 226
"I don't know why your grandson brought up the subject in class. Was it pertinent to the course, or was he just looking for an argument? If the latter then he has to ask himself if he was baiting his professor."
One of the electives he is taking is religion (I can't remember the exact name of the course). Most importantly, like many 20 year olds he is impulsive and a bit contrarian. I have counseled him repeatedly about the need to be more cautious, considering the mindset and religiosity of the population in the area where he lives, but his idealistic tendencies are more powerful than the advice of an old man.
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Towebsitejunkie
You are a lot of fun!
Mint? I do not care for mint either. What about bay, sage, tarragon, and a lot of garlic.
Sleep well.
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243, David.
Is is the meat or the poisons they feed the animals? We buy meat from people who raise their own animals and their own feed, all without pesticides, growth hormones, antibiotics and all that other garbage.
As for the Japanese who developed cancer on an American diet, there are so many variables that it would be hard to isolate the exact cause. It could be water, for instance, or pollution. It could be the organophosphates that are pumped into venting systems (used in those horrible buildings that have nonfunctioning windows).
You may have a great doctor. That does not mean he is a great researcher.
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re: 237. Ed Inglehart
By all means.
http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/iphone
Not sure how that link will appear on the BBC blogs.
Also listed under iTunes but that would invovle having to describe which page of the myriad applications this might appear on.
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248, Dominick.
You are saying that your grandson has not learned to dissemble yet. It may get him into trouble, but you have to admire him. He hasn't lost faith yet, and hopefully he never will.
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#238 allmymarbles
"a strip polka debate."
Judging by the gender bias in the polls, Obama would have that dance anytime!
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#211. Sankari, #187. ChicagoPolishDude
"By the way, I found a list of property taxes by state (here: http://tinyurl.com/ysk8on) dated around Feb. 2007. I doubt that much has changed since then."
I don't think the averages shown really reflect local property taxes or the value of the property concerned. If there were a county-by-county listing, that would be rather more enlightening since one could compare the property tax rate with the political composition of the County Supervisors or whatever title they hold in each location.
Property tax rates are not "banded" as they are in the UK, (I have no idea how it's done in Oz) and they can vary tremendously in one neighbourhood. In California we have the benefits of Proposition 13 where (in the simplest of terms) the underlying assessment remains the same until one moves. Rather like airfares; one seat will pay more and the one next to it paid less. However, I don't see that local Republican administrations always set lower tax rates than Democrats; it depends on what services are being included, about which see #204. from DominickVila.
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Can I bring up something else "sinister". Have a look at the fivethirtyeight front page for Saturday 18th, "real" America looks different to Palin, Obama.
They compare the racial disposition of the cities where the rallies etc are held. Palin, who must give idiots a bad name says
"We believe that the best of America is in these small towns that we get to visit, and in these wonderful little pockets of what I call the real America, being here with all of you hard working very patriotic, um, very, um, pro-America areas of this great nation a bad name, says "
538 points out she rabble rouses in cities that are over 83% white. Blacks a third less than average and hispanics less than half of the US average. Now, Sarah, in words of only one syllable, cos I think thats the most you can get - "why is that do you think"?
And the rest of the country isn't real, patriotic, pro America, like her secessionist Alaskan friends (and family!)?
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#250. "Is it the meat?" Apparently so; without providing umpteen links, just Google meat eating and cancer and there are nearly three million sites which mention the subject!
It goes beyond chemicals and hormones. Presumably many years back few people lived far enough into old age to suffer the long-term effects of meat eating, not to mention the fact that for many, meat was a special treat and not for everyday consumption. Even if it were proved beyond a shadow of a doubt, it's hardly likely that cattle farmers would go out of business; cigarette manufacturers are still with us, despite the proof that their product causes cancer.
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# 221 David_Cunard
".... although I would have preferred Hillary Clinton rather than the present candidate. Had she been selected then there most likely would have been no Sarah Palin and the gap between McCain and Hillary would be greater than it is now between and McCain and Obama."
Leaving aside the Palin issue - I've seen the suggestion elsewhere that Clinton would be doing better than Obama. Now, obviously no one can say for sure how she would be doing - but what exactly is the evidence that she would be doing better? After all, she lost the nomination to Obama, after starting with a lead of 20-30% in the polls. And as far as I remember nearly all the polls this year showed him ahead of her and doing better against McCain, And I also seem to recall many polls showing her having extremely high unfavourables, and polling poorly among independents. Moreover the recent polls wouldn't seem to indicate some big switch to McCain among Clinton Democrats.
I know people have occasionally claimed that Obama should be further ahead than he is - but I saw a recent analysis [think it was on 538, not certain] saying that the difference between his polls and what a generic Democrat would get was statistically insignificant.
Just to clarify - you're entitled to your opinion. I just wondered what the grounds for it were.
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252 allmymarbles wrote:
"248, Dominick.
You are saying that your grandson has not learned to dissemble yet. It may get him into trouble, but you have to admire him. He hasn't lost faith yet, and hopefully he never will."
An interesting way to describe an atheist ;-)
(And before anyone bothers telling me - yes, I know there are more kinds of faith than religious faith. Faith in reason, debate and free speech spring to mind in this instance...)
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And after something sinister, something that is not and should be read by Americans. And if it is, will it reinforce those prejudices that the rabids bring up on here too frequently?
Europe wide polls give Obama massive popularity leads. Similarly in Canada, Mexico and Japan. That's right, Japan. Now the nuts will say that's because we want a weak president. Believe me, we don't. We want one who can read and write and act rationally after accepting advice from carefully chosen, clever people who are not just shadowy puppeteers.
Even Switzerland, famous for it's socialism, raving Communist politics, devil may care liberal finances, goes 83% for Obama, 7% for McCain. And I think every household has a gun there too!
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/10/17/ap/europe/main4529613.shtml
We
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#229
David,
Firstly, I am not a Democrat, I am an Independent.
Secondly i do not advocate the 'If it's brown it's down if it flies it dies' philosophy. However, should a coyote come in and attack my chickens, dog or cats I reserve the right to treat it as a terrorist.
Lastly I wouldn;t build in a fire or flood zone, or on a spit or bar, because at the end of the day you will lose it all. Sooner or later.
Sad Sam
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Dear Mr. Webb,
Not to be off topic but here you go
I'm familiar with ?the Weather Underground.? I?ve meet former member in Pubs and buffet lines now and them, mostly through Professors and Adjuncts at the University of Michigan, Flint Campus, who knew them in their heyday, mostly due to the Weathermen?s one an only "Convention" here in Flint, Mi. Ironically in the Dort Ballroom of the Mott Foundation Building. Not to patronize but, Dort and Mott, were two of the main founders of General Motors, and still lived in Flint at the time. In modern terms, it would be like having the ?Battle of Seattle? at the gates of the William Gates estate.
The Weathermen thought Flint, with it's pre-war II, violent Unionist Labor history, would be a breeding ground for "a Marxist/ Leninist urban proletariat revolution" and gain new members. They were displeased with the lack of a warm reception by the blue color workers, many of whom were WWII, Korean War, and even Vietnam veterans. The majority of the industrial workers were either ultra, orthodox Roman Catholics or equally devote Southern mainstream Protestants or Evangelicals Christians. They all hated them to a man and woman. It was practically the first time they actually all agreed on something.
The city despised them, and saw the Weathermen as worse than Communists, they were Satanic Anarchists. The Convention was a failure, recruitment-wise.
I morn the people that the bombs that the Weathermen Underground killed or harmed. I know it is cold comfort. The thugs were young, stupid, brain-addled and of those, caught, even years later, deserve their sentence.
I have bad debts that lasted longer than a Manslaughter/Homicide Verdict.
Please understand if you can, if you can remember. The Sixties and early Seventies were a terrible, terrible time for most of the American Nation. We had so much to do, and so much to change and atone for, in so short a time, the Cold War, Vietnam, The Civil Rights Movement, The Great Society.
My God, I say, we endure it, then following the shame of Saigon, the Oil Embargo, economic hardship, hostage crisis and any number of other lesser insults to our country. I cannot remember in my life time, Americans being of so low of spirit. It was all pervasive.
So much for obscure history.
That aside, what can be noted was that many of former Students for a Democratic Society, the breading ground of the Weatherman Underground, that later entered mainstream politics, particularly former US Senator and Congressman Thomas Emmet Hayden, who was the recording secretary of the SDS and drafted the "Port Huron Statement", the SDS?s political manifesto. He, among others future politicians, knew members the Weathermen Underground personally, but never ascribed to their violent radical extremism.
Oh, almost forgot, Sen. Hayden married and divorced Jane Fonda, talk about consorting with known terrorists! :)
.
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jimigorilla, that's right, they all have faults.
But two candidates in this field really tick me off:
Palin, because she is intellectually lazy, and
Obama, because of his extreme-left attitude that
came out when he talked with "Joe the Plumber."
And, of course, almost every Congressman that I
have had the pleasure of hearing exudes stupidity.
They must have a "stupid pill" in congressional
cafeterias that they take with every meal, or
perhaps as part of their medical plan.
So, please add any congressional candidate on
the ballot to my list - but this week I'm still po'd
because of Obama's patronizing attitude with
Joe (who may or may not be a real plumber.)
I'm a bit busy this weekend, but I will put together
something for early next week.
Sam, if you are interested, I could bring back a
pair of mountain lions for you to breed, just to
cut down on the golfer menace. (Sort of like
"Caddy Shack" with a twist.)
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#257. john-In-Dublin: "I've seen the suggestion elsewhere that Clinton would be doing better than Obama . . . but what exactly is the evidence that she would be doing better?"
There can't be any evidence, just a supposition. She did get around 17 million votes, so the difference between her and Mr Obama was not that great. I just happen to think that she would have done better in the debates, which never have been Mr Obama's strong point, and that her base of women would have made a difference. I preferred her health care plan/s to that of the Nominee, which were more inclusive and I don't believe she would have had to modify her thoughts on a withdrawal from Iraq. How she would have handled the present economic situation is hard to say. I also don't think we can ignore the selection of Mrs Palin as a running-mate for John McCain since it did gain the Republicans a lot of traction. Without that diversion I believe that, had she been the Nominee, she would have been further ahead, even if her husband is seen as a divisive figure. But millions adore him and that would have been a plus for the campaign.
Thanks for asking - it's just my opinion!
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Post; #234 ChicagoPolishDude wrote: "211 Sankari
I can try to enlighten you but from your condecending attitude I'm not sure you will listen anyway."
I'll listen.
"I have lived in Colorado, North Carolina as well as the UK for about 7 years, currently in Columbia, SC. I own a place I bought for 211K 5 years ago. 2 years ago my taxes were at $2800 not bad and I wasn't complaining last year my taxes dropped to $1400 because the local government implemented an additional 1 cent sales tax on goods other than food. And before you say the schools are terrible the high school in my neighborhood was just completely renovated and looks more like a university than any high school I've seen in the south side of Chicago were I grew up."
So what's your point?
"Typical Liberal"
I'm not a liberal. If anything, I am conservative; I am anti-abortion, I am in favour of the death penalty, I think small businesses should be encouraged by low overheads and tax breaks, I believe that people should work for welfare if they are capable of working, and I am strongly against the decriminalisation of so-called "recreational drugs".
To name just a few points.
Nevertheless, I regard Obama as the lesser of the two evils. Faced with a choice, I would vote for him. America cannot afford a McCain presidency.
"if you don't like the taxes your paying move where are you from let me guess it's run by the Dems, maybe you should move you'd save a little cash."
You guessed wrong.
(a) I am a white Australian
(b) I currently live in the UK
(c) I believe that if people want their circumstances to change, they should do something about it instead of sitting on their backsides and whinging
If more people took responsibility for themselves instead of waiting for other people to make their lives easier, this world would be a better place.
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Post #254; David_Cunard wrote: "I don't think the averages shown really reflect local property taxes or the value of the property concerned. If there were a county-by-county listing, that would be rather more enlightening since one could compare the property tax rate with the political composition of the County Supervisors or whatever title they hold in each location."
OK, thanks for that.
"Property tax rates are not "banded" as they are in the UK, (I have no idea how it's done in Oz) and they can vary tremendously in one neighbourhood. In California we have the benefits of Proposition 13 where (in the simplest of terms) the underlying assessment remains the same until one moves. Rather like airfares; one seat will pay more and the one next to it paid less."
I see.
In Australia property taxes are calculated differently from state to state, but they are all based upon an assessment of the property's value (provided by the Valuer General's Office).
It is possible to have considerable variation within a single area.
"However, I don't see that local Republican administrations always set lower tax rates than Democrats; it depends on what services are being included, about which see #204. from DominickVila."
Somehow I suspected that this was the case. ;)
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Good point 255.
Palin appeals to the lowest common denominators in politics: fear, ignorance, devisiveness.
I have news for you Sarah Palin, where ever you are and what ever rabble you're rousing, as far as I'm concerned, there is NO "you and I". There's you and your seccessionist husband, there's you and the extreme right, you telling the AIP to "keep up the good work", you firing up crowds yelling brilliant things like "kill him!", and you and anyone you can scare.
Then there's the rest of the American electorate, who's not as gullible as you seem to think. I'm with them.
And putting as much distance as possible between "you" and "I".
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Post #262; gunsandreligion wrote: "But two candidates in this field really tick me off:
Palin, because she is intellectually lazy, and
Obama, because of his extreme-left attitude that
came out when he talked with "Joe the Plumber.""
I haven't noticed any "extreme-left attitude" in Obama. I certainly didn't see anything of the kind when he was talking to Joe the (fake) Plumber.
Can you help me out here? All I'm asking for is a simple point-by-point breakdown of his "extreme-left attitude". This would be very helpful.
Would the American people be likely to vote for someone with an "extreme-left attitude"? I suspect not, and I reckon you'd agree with me on that. Nevertheless, we must somehow account for Obama's tremendous popularity; his consistent lead over McCain; the growing number of swing voters who are turning to his message.
How do we explain this, if Obama has an "extreme-left attitude"?
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228
Re the Maoris eating the original inhabitants of New Zealand:
A perfect political solution. They made it an internal matter.
(I wonder if there's a lesson here?)
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Sankari, if you can wait until sometime next week,
I can go into it in detail. But the brief summary is,
Obama believe that taxes are a Good Thing.
No red-blooded American believes that.
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Here is a video posted
on youtube, which purports to explain the extent
of Obama's ties with former SDS and Weathermen
members in his current campaign. I would appreciate
it those who know more about this would come forward
and comment on it.
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#269
Guns,
While I hate to disagree with you, I disagree. Obama believes you pay for what you get. And if you get more, you pay more.
What's unamerican about that?
BTW, the number one thing that ticks me off with McCain is he assumes all folks in the top 5% object to paying more. IMHO most of us do not. The few who do are folks who inherited their money, didn't earn it.
Sad Sam
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#260. SamTyler1969:
Because I am at the keyboard, I rather feel like the introduction to Sullivan's The Lost Chord -"Seated one day at the organ, I was weary and ill at ease. And my fingers wandered idly Over the noisy keys", so forgive this flurry of posts although, unlike Sir Arthur, I am not "ill at ease." So much better if one could IM everything.
"Firstly, I am not a Democrat, I am an Independent."
If my memory is correct, you earlier wrote that you had (already) voted a 'straight ticket' for the first time, the implication being that it was Democratic. But being Independent could have meant a vote for Ralph Nader or possibly Bob Barr, the latter actually a Libertarian; if so, a wasted stamp and a wasted vote.
"should a coyote come in and attack my chickens, dog or cats I reserve the right to treat it as a terrorist." And that's where we differ: either the property should be properly fenced so as to preclude such visitors,(what happens when you're not there, do the coyotes have free access?) or, better still, you should not be encroaching on their habitat. Just because you have the financial ability to build/buy a house in an area which is, by nature, the preserve of wild life, does not mean that you should do so. In my view, one which is not popular, it is arrogance to think that we can build anywhere, and the ecosystem be damned. You agree that you would not build in a fire or flood zone, so why would you do so where wild life abounds?
That being said, I must agree about golfers - and (heresy!) about golf itself. Quite the most pointless endeavour to come out of the British Isles.
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257, John in Dublin.
If Clinton would have done better than Obama, why did McCain angle to get her nominated? Because she wouldn't have. For one thing, Hillary meant Bill, and no one wanted Bill, expecially no one wanted bill running influence peddling from the White House.
As to Hillary getting almost as many votes in the primaries as Obama, it should be remembered that Obama did not run in Michigan. Also, as the campaign for the nomination wore on, he saw that he had what he needed and barely campaigned for the last states.
Obama doesn't have the baggage that Clinton has. His slate is pretty clean. That is attractive to people who don't trust the Cllinton duo.
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To: #266
God bless you for your comments!
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To: #266 Re:266
God bless you for your comments!
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256, David.
Well, I disagree with you about the chemicals and the hormones. Common sense alone tells us that these are unnatural additives and not something you put into your stomache. Science has proven that they are dangerous.
I think the bad reputation for meat has to do with people gorging on it (easy to prepare) and not eating much of anything else. So are we blaming meat when we should be blaming the lack of vegetable matter. The old-fashioned business of a balanced diet still holds. Fast foods are not balanced.
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#271, Sam, it's not the money that I object to,
it's what he wants to do with it and his attitude.
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276AMM
I tend to agree with you. I live in Japan and there was a documentary on TV recently where some eminent US medical scientist was saying that if the US adopted the same type of diet that the Japanese have, there would be a reduction of some 70%+ of bowel/colon etc cancer, which are related to the over consumption of eating meat, namely red meat.
The only thing fast about fast food is that the cash goes our of the wallet fast!
I can cook a delicious fresh Carbonara , for example, much quicker than going down to the local fast food outlet. Or a local favourite Oyakadon..piece of cake, all using fresh natural ingredients from locally producers. None of the supermarket rubbish.
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#272
David,
I did vote a straight ticket this year. That doesn't mean I buy into a Democrat philosophy, as you implied. I do not.
My coop is fenced, Above and below ground. As is my property for deer, the parts that need to be. The rest they may come and go as they please.
I like your arguement about encroaching upon nature, but we are arguing about history now. Did Willy Penn encroach with Pennsbury? You betcha (to use a current phrase). Do I with my house? Of course. Did every town from Hazleton through Allentown down to Philly? Of course. Should we relocate several million folks because they live on a border with 'nature'?
The reality is there is still a balance between nature and human settlement. To bring it back to the original point, folks can move into houses that have been around for a long time (mine is pre independence) and still find a use for a gun. That is life, today. I would love to wind the clock back and we all live in nice safe villages, but it isn't happening.
As Aqua elegantly said, a gun is a tool. It has uses and can be abused. It requires respect and care.
That said I will not limit myself to living in a city because you wish it to be so. I enjoy many things and try to be a good steward of the environment. Especially my own. I have deer, foxes, racoons and all the rest of the NE fauna living on my property, and I cherish and love them.
To extend the analogy, if your house is more than 250 years old, burn yours and I will consider abandoning mine.
None of which takes away the desire to own a gun to remove a troublesome copperhead from the barn in November when all else fails.
Respectfully
Sam
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#277
I can't comment on the attitude issue. I do know that McCain does not, economically, have any new direction other than expand the deficit. This would be bad.
I think taking 50, 60, 70 or more grand a year from me and giving it to 20-30 folks who make less than 40, 50 60 grand when the country hurts and we need to keep everyone afloat seems like a good idea.
It could be me, but it seems we have a duty of care to the less fortunate that has been lacking the last few years.
As Obama said when McCain said 'No one should pay more taxes' (the dumbest possible comment when in a deficit driven crisis). I will. Sign me up. I would rather pay 10, 15, 20% more of my income in taxes than watch the current trend.
I can afford it. And in times of national and international crisis I should be asked to.
Sad Sam
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPg0VCg4AEQ
Here's another reason why the Republicans need to rid themselves of the nutjobs and extreme elements of the religious right. I have met many moderate, socially liberal Republicans who are bitterly disappointed with McCain for picking Palin and surrendering his campaign to Karl Rove and the Limbaugh agenda. They're sick of the "culture wars". The GOP will not survive if it becomes the party of only the less educated white working class.
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279, Sam.
I also voted a straight Democratic ticket for the first time. I did it to shake things up and to give Obama as much latitude as possible. He will not be able to make any substantive change if Congress isn't behind him.
With all the emphasis on the presidential candidates and all the promises they make, the public seems to forget the power of the legislature. The only area in which the president has real power is in foreign affairs.
My vote was pretty radical for an independent.
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Another reason for voting for Obama. We need youth and enthusiasm. We have to get rid of these old geezers who slow down progress. We need new ideas - young ideas and alert minds. The old boys are too comfortable and entrenched.
Throw the old rascals out and the new rascals in.
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ref #222
If your grandson is being unfairly treated because of his views that is wrong.
I can only point out these cases.
1. The Duke proffessors who failed white players in their class.
Howard Zinn who will not allow opposing viewpoint in his classes.
Colubia University who will allow the racist anti-semite Iranain President to speak but allows the liberal groups to force the Minuteman off
4 U.S Military recruiting being harrased on campus
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The news that is most frightening in all of this is the failure of the American system to provide secure and accurate lists of voters a matter that seems to have been solved simply enough in other democratic nations: proper scrutineers at all pulling booths; paper ballots; scrutineers at ballot counting; immediate counting. Admitted that Canadian and Australian counts are small in relation to the US, it still seems to me that an honest election should be possible and that disinfranchising hundreds as happened in Florida should be made impossible. A constitution written 200 years ago by some of my relatives is simply inadequate for a nation of 300,000,000.
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281, Cyril.
Have you noticed the switch in support of both parties? The Republicans used to represent the elite, now they reach out to rednecks and the lunatic fringe. The Democrats, once the party of the working man, are embraced by the educated.
The old guard has not deserted the Republicans (although many are embarrassed by the affiliation), or the disenfranchised the Democrats, but the differences are no longer so clear cut.
Joe the Plumber repreents the Republicans?
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#264. Sankari: "I am conservative; I am anti-abortion, I am in favour of the death penalty, I think small businesses should be encouraged by low overheads and tax breaks, I believe that people should work for welfare if they are capable of working, and I am strongly against the decriminalisation of so-called "recreational drugs".
Good heavens! A cross between Pauline Hanson and Mary Whitehouse!! Next thing you'll be telling us is that you disapprove of Civil Unions. I can't quite see how you can be anti-abortion and pro-death penalty, but perhaps you'd care to explain. I don't think our mutual friend, Horace Rumpole, would agree with you. You'd be at home on this side of the pond since "recreational drugs" are verboten everywhere.
"If more people took responsibility for themselves instead of waiting for other people to make their lives easier, this world would be a better place." So easy to say when possibly one is well placed, although "scraping together pennies at the pub" would indicate you are not, even though you live in Notting Hill. Nevertheless, you did once describe yourself as "disabled" so I wonder if you receive any "benefits" under the British system? Your support of Mr Obama would appear to go against everything you believe in, so it's very hard to understand exactly why you not would vote for Mr McCain, whose party represents all that you consider right.
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284, ubermensch.
You are so funny. I love it when you call someone a racist. You, the biggest bigot of them all.
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287, David.
We are all a mixed bag. That is why so many of us are independents.
I believe absolutely in racial and religious equality.
I believe in the separation of church and state.
I am in favor of abortion.
I am in favor of the death penalty.
I think all able-bodied people who are on welfare should should be given a one-month's notice of termination.
I think illegal immigrants should be deported. They are a drain on our resources and do not pay taxes.
I think that the mentally ill homeless should be institionalized in new facilities that are humane and strictly supervised. Their present state is deplorable.
I am expecting a big argument from you.
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#276. allmymarbles: "Well, I disagree with you about the chemicals and the hormones . . . I think the bad reputation for meat has to do with people gorging on it (easy to prepare) and not eating much of anything else. So are we blaming meat when we should be blaming the lack of vegetable matter, etc."
I gather that you have not yet Googled meat eating and cancer, but when you have a moment (and I know it's well past midnight in Gotham) do consider it. It's quite an eye opener.
#279. SamTyler1969: "Should we relocate several million folks because they live on a border with 'nature'?" It would greatly depend on when the houses were constructed. I accept that a building which is as "old" as 250 years might have some incidental value (my home in Britain was somewhat older) but building afresh (or "new builds" as the British say) in areas where there is an abundance of wild life should be disallowed. Just as I believe that those who rebuild in fire and flood areas should be denied building permits.
"I have deer, foxes, racoons and all the rest of the NE fauna living on my property, and I cherish and love them." How exactly does loving them make them targets of your gun? You did say that the smaller critters carried rabies! As an American, you have grown up with a gun culture, whereas I, having been raised in England and well into adulthood, have understood the advantages of being gun-less. Your personal situation is no different to many in Britain, and they do not feel the need to have firearms, unless for sport, a word which I find, when applied to hunting, to be entirely inappropriate. There is nothing sporting about shooting a deer or any other creature which lives by its wits, such as they are. I concede that there are no copperheads in Britain, but the fact that there are some in Pennsylvania does not seem to me to be a sufficient reason to have a gun. Guns are made for one purpose only, killing; skeet shooting and clay pigeons are incidental.
Of course I can't influence your thinking on where to live, but I would hope that you never build on land which is considered to be wild and scenically attractive but where there is a preponderance of wild life - and I don't mean just a few bunnies. If we all did that, we would eventually ruin what Nature has provided; given the area of the United States it would take a long time, but one only has to look at Britain and the encroachment of "civilisation" on so-called 'green-belts'. It isn't a happy situation there and it may well be duplicated on the west side of the Atlantic.
I enjoy your writing and your occasional witticisms, but on this subject I fear you are misguided. For the sake of harmonious relations, we shall have to agree to disagree.
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Re: many comments on racism.
When responding to the woman who said Obama is an Arab, the most worrying feature to me of the conversation was that Mccain told the lady Obama was a "nice family man". He didn't mention anything about Obama being an American, or coming from mixed black African and caucasian American background. He didn't correct the woman regarding Obama's ethnic background. He commented only on Obama's commitment to his family. This window into Mccain's thoughts about the family commitments of average Arabs really is inescapable in his comment.
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Everyone I know is completely sick and tired of McCain's grumpy, whining-loser envy-laden attacks against Obama. Not to mention Shrieking Sarah Palin's outlandish xenophobia and racist inuendos against Obama. Total turnoffs, both of them - and every day more reason to vote for Obama/Biden.
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This just in from deep, deep in a "red state".
Yesterday, the 18th, Saturday morning in St. Louis Missouri, a very catholic conservative community (I was born there, and my family is resides there) an impromptu rally was held by the campaign for the election of Barak Obama for president of The United States of America - 100,000 people turned out to support this candidate and all that he stands for.
Saturday evening, the 18th, in Kansas City Missouri, a very conservative evangelical protestant community which borders on Kansas, specifically Johnson County Kansas which is the heart of contemporary Republicanism (where I currently reside) an impromptu rally was held by the campaign for the election of Barak Obama for president of The United States of America - 75,000 people turned out to support this candidate and all that he stands for.
I think 7,000 turned out for McCain today.
I went to the rally in Kansas City; I read about it one half hour before it started, and drove downtown to see what it was all about - and I have to say: I have never in my 44 years seen such a diverse group of wonderful, kind, and considerate people. It was as if all of the kind people for miles around just showed up impromptu, of like mind and cause.
I have now discovered first hand that there are others like me, that are kind and that have hope. I could not believe what a contrast it was compared to all of the hate and division that I hear and see in the Republican's following. Most of my friends are Republicans and I now know that my soul has been getting slowly dimmed by their influence over the years; they are the polar opposite of the 75,000 bright and shining faces I saw tonight.
I think that this election cycle could set in motion a major shift - back toward humanity, and away from selfishness and meanness.
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293 JOC.
That is pretty much what happened 11 years ago in the UK after years of Conservative rule. The usually non-electable Labour party won, with a land slide and knock the Conservatives for 6...it has taken them a whole decade to recover and redefine themselves.
Should Obama win, I think the same will occur to the Republicans in the US. They would become mere bystanders for many years to come...as the Democrates, under Obama, forge ahead.
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#289. allmymarbles wrote: "I am expecting a big argument from you."
Not big, but I do think that being "independent" is rather a cop-out, neither fish not fowl.
I don't understand how you can support the death penalty; it isn't a deterrent - if it were, the murder rate would have dropped substantially during the last two centuries. As it is, the condemned party is completely out of it when dead - no time to consider his or her actions or to serve a lifetime of punishment. Death is the easy way out. As far as I can see, revenge is the only reason for killing someone, which doesn't say much for civilised society.
The question of welfare is contentious, it should be decided on a case-by-case basis, not some specific date as you suggest. In these difficult times, what happens if there are no jobs available. Do you let them starve?
Illegal immigrants - I'm a legal one, so I would agree that only those who are, like myself, in the United States with the agreement of the authorities should be permitted to stay. I had to 'jump through the hoops' when I wanted to stay permanently and I expect others to do so as well. However, the sheer cost of repatriating thousands, tens of thousands, would cost dearly. There might be better things on which to spend the money.
The mentally-ill homeless - it would depend on what the mental illness was. Treatment would be the most appropriate option, to make them working members of society. Not all mental illness is untreatable and with the advancements in knowledge and drug therapy, I would rather see these people provided with the proper rehabilitation. Dementia is a different matter, and certainly those of the homeless who suffer from Alzheimer's Disease and other types should be taken care of. Those who have the means, such as the Reagan family, or today, the Thatcher family in Britain, have no worries, but for those who have been abandoned by their families and society, proper care is essential - although given your approval of abortion and the death penalty (which is at least consistent) perhaps you would consider euthanasia a better option.
Unfortunately, one cannot cherry-pick with regard to political parties; I feel sure that many disagree with certain planks in the platform of whichever one they favour. If it were easier to vote separately for a President and Vice-president, that might be easier; in California, we have had Governors and Lieutenant Governors of opposing parties, a system which would probably find favour with the national electorate, although I cannot imagine anyone voting for Obama-Palin!
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#289 allmymarbles believes or says she believes that the "able-bodied" should be thrown off welfare on a month's notice (irrespective of whether there are any paid jobs they could be doing? and irrespective of their age?), and the mentally ill homeless should be "institutionalized" (that is, imprisoned). That should cost quite a lot, especially as many of the able-bodied will then be both mentally ill and homeless. Or will the institutions have to turn a profit from the inmates (perhaps they could sell their blood and body parts, or be hired out as body slaves?).
Why is it so hard for USAmericans - even ones who come across as liberals (in the British sense) - to believe that communities have responsibilities to those who cannot cope, to children, to the old, to the unfortunate, and yes even to the congenitally incapable? Of course there may be "welfare cheats" in the system, but there are also very many people who aren't cheating. Would you really rather have the sort of indifferent non-community which lets the non-copers die or - at best - shoves them out of sight into workhouses? Or will the conclusion be that they should be disenfranchised, stripped of their citizenship, declared illegal aliens and shipped off to another country (supposing that this can be managed without looking like an act of war)? Is this a return to "Victorian Values" (actually no, the Victorians were industrious and humane until the virus of Social Darwinism took hold)?
Why is it supposed to be "extreme leftwing" to reckon that wealth exists to be shared, and that those with rather more should expect also to pay rather more? The very notion of "freedom" (eleutheria) in classical philosophy implies "generosity" (eleutheriotes). The virtues of free men (and women) include a willingness to share. Those who want wealth only for themselves, who want no responsibility as members of a civil, civilized society, are hardly, on the Aristotelian view, entirely human!
The weird idea that taxes, just as such, and so also Government just as such, are a Bad Thing (and this is what some posters, not allmymarbles, have suggested) seems to turn on just such a refusal to think yourself a part of any civilized community. What exactly would such posters really prefer? It looks to me remarkably like the life that the great English philosopher Thomas Hobbes described as "the state of nature": solitary, poor, nasty, brutish and short!
Thanks, but no thanks!
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290, David.
I have viewed traditional medicine with a wary eye ever since it took a venture into alternative medicine to cured my invalid daughter. I tried everything under the sun for four years, and then, in a little more than two weeks, she was well on her way to recovery.
With alternative methods within the family we have cured sciatica, immnensely improved arthritis, cured cataracts, got rid of allergies, and warded off the ailments of age.
As to food and traditional medicine, if you follow the developments you will find that last year's villain is today's savior. Go on eggs, go off eggs. Only the yolks are OK; only the whites are OK. Doctors know nothing about nutrition except what they read in medical journals. It does not play a big part in their training.
I am not without some medical knowledge. I worked in the medical field at one time and one of my daughters has been a medical writer. There are doctors, pharmacists, and a food chemist in the family. That doesn't mean we know everything, because no one does.
But I know enough to be sceptical about the latest medical fad. Nor do I trust the FDA. They are hand in glove with the drug houses and business community and, according to them just about every poison put into our food is OK.
So for everyday medical care I use common sense. We are omnivores. We were meant to eat both flora and fauna. After all these millenia I refuse to believe that meat is bad for you. Why? Because it defies common sense, and I will place common sense before medical fad any day.
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#297. allmymarbles: It's almost 12 Midnight and my ball gown is about to turn back to rags, but a quick reply.
"I refuse to believe that meat is bad for you. Why? Because it defies common sense, and I will place common sense before medical fad any day."
I really think that scientific evaluation has more merit than personal common sense. In past millennia no-one lived long enough to see the results of long-term meat consumption; I doubt that very few died of cancer as they do today. Common sense might tell you that smoking something natural was harmless, but it took years and years before it was shown that not only was tobacco addictive, but it caused lung cancer. One can't always rely on one's own impressions and I for one would take other evidence into consideration.
Now the bell is striking and if I'm not very careful I shall lose my glass slipper. More to say about almost anything on Sunday!
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295, David.
As for the death penalty you say, "As far as I can see, revenge is the only reason for killing someone, which doesn't say much for civilised society."
Revenge is a primal instinct and with us forever, unless we lie to ourselves. Civilization just means we have washing machines.
"The question of welfare is contentious, it should be decided on a case-by-case basis, not some specific date as you suggest. In these difficult times, what happens if there are no jobs available. Do you let them starve?"
These "difficult times" have only just arrived and welfare has been with us for a couple of generations. Why do we still support indigency? Think of the enormous administration it employs. Without welfare they are out of work. In "difficult times" the government can develop work projects. FDR did it very successfully. But wilfully not working should not be rewarded with our money. The aged and infirm should of course be taken care of, and taken care of well.
As far as illegal aliens are concerned, the cost of maintaining them is too high. People tell us that this country has been peopled by aliens. True. But the old-time aliens came here and fended for themselves. They worked and slaved and there was no free lunch. Now we have social security and other benefits paid for by us all our lives. I see no reason why these people, who have paid no taxes, should cash in.
"The mentally-ill homeless - it would depend on what the mental illness was. Treatment would be the most appropriate option, to make them working members of society. Not all mental illness is untreatable and with the advancements in knowledge and drug therapy."
The problem with the mentally ill homeless is that although medication is available, they do not take it - because they are mentally ill. These pathetic creatures are all over the city - abandoned. Most of them need institutionalized care. We saved money by closing down facilities that used to care for them. They were not the greatest facilities, but we can certainly improve on them and provide humane care.
In closing I don't see why calling myself an independent is a cop out. What it means is that there is no one party that I can identify with. I support racial equality (democrat); I am against demonizing homosexuality (democrat); I am fiscally conservative (republican); I favor state's rights (republican); I favor abortion (democrat); I favor the death penalty (republican?), I favor separation of church and state (democrat), I am against assault weapons (democrat), I resist increased socializationl (republican).
It is clear to me that I am an indnependent.
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# 293 Jo from Kansas ~ thank you for taking the trouble to post your elegant and inspiring comment. As kecsmar says, there may be a comparison with what happened in the UK in 1997 when Tony Blair won a famous victory over a tired and muddled Tory party.
As I have written before on these pages, Blair's win put a spring back into the step of the country and - for a time - we thrived and prospered, right up until the time that Blair decided to believe in George W. Bush's WMD nonsense, which did for him.
The other interesting comparison is with the scare stories coming from the right, who, through strident cheerleaders like Sarah Palin and Michele Bachman, are trying to drive a dangerous wedge of division between people.
Obama first made us sit up and take notice with his electrifying speech about it not being a red America or a blue America, but a United States of America.
Now these batty women screech about being people pro-America or anti-America. They totally shock me because they are elected leaders who should be using their authority to unite and inspire, not to drag thirties-type pseudo-fascist division into an already dispirited country.
And yes, I have the requisite number of X chromosomes to accuse these women of being wilfully divisive. If they had learned a bit more history, they might be more cautious and responsible about what they are doing.
Right, now I'll have my breakfast !
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#296, srlclark, for some reason, you make the
assumption that Big Government is the only way
to provide for the needs of society.
Government can help, but only caring individuals
can actually make things happen when they are
needed. I, for one, resent the notion that I need
a government to tell when and how I should help
someone.
The best social policy is to create a job. The most
efficient way to create a job is through the private
sector. If the government wants to help us, as some
politicians purport, then first they should listen
to what we have to say once in a while.
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299AMM
But isn't that the main problem with US politics being so polarised and almost every issue. One can easy sit in either camp, as such.... Hence a voter is typically scyzophrenic and can flip-flop either way. Depending which side of the bed one got out of that day may well dictate which way to vote...since as you noted ,you like many, have values of both parties.
So, your choice is based upon what..personality, integrity, etc???
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If you've voted in more than a few elections, you will know that robo-calls have been around for years. There is nothing "sinister" about them at all. Obama's team makes just as many calls. Just turn your answering machine on or check to see who is calling your cell before you answer. Problem solved.
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I can't resist posting this link.
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I have received automated phone calls and text messages on my cell phone. For those of us who are completely wireless, (there's a whole lot of us) political robocalls are not only invasive, annoying, and insulting, they are also costly (minutes). That would make me angry if a political campaign started costing me money. But, of course, the McCain campaign didn't think of that!
b
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#301 gunsandreligion says that I assume too readily that Big Government is always the answer to social ills (or any other problem). I don't make any such assumption. There are many sorts and sizes of community, and many ways of providing services. Schools, once upon a time, were private charitable (often churchly) ventures, and there is certainly a case for regretting increasing government control (in the UK) of syllabuses and styles of teaching. But it is no answer to say that government should not be involved at all, and that what people do with their own time and money is always for themselves alone to decide: even private charitable ventures, in education or any other field, need some legal standing, and communities have to make decisions about what they will tolerate, support or enforce.
There can be honourable and reasonable differences of opinion about when and how the larger community should get involved in the smaller. What puzzles me is the apparent axiom that taxes and government, just as such, are bad things and that they should in all circumstances be minimized or eliminated (though I notice that many of those who resent taxes on the wealthy are far from liberal in their other attitudes: I don't direct this at gunsandreligion in particular, or at all - I don't know what his general views are). Sure, there are decisions to be taken: what is a community to tolerate, what support, what enforce: those are precisely the issues that ought to be addressed in political debate. But damning government and taxes from the start is as much as to deny the existence of any community at all.
I can go along with gunsandreligion so far as to admit that every time I take one of the Politopia tests about political positions (see http://www.politopia.com/) I myself end up in the libertarian corner, but I don't do so on principle, and I'm conscious that plenty of social problems simply aren't soluble by individual action (and plenty aren't soluble by government action either).
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Ha ! A wise old man talking on the Andrew Marr Show says that one word encapsulates the reasons for the current problems of the world.
Hubris !
Ring any bells with people who were using this site yesterday ?
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"That should be a factor but does the other nations ever go the other way and see how America sees them?"
You have no idea how other nations see America. In fact the rest of the world is completely schizoid about it. Most of the negative view has been caused by American foreign policy over the last 50 years or so. You Americans are the ones constantly being told that the world is full of enemies. Fear is an excellent instrument for controlling people. Your GOP baaically doesn't want you to stop and think, because maybe a lot of Americans who aren't that well off might conclude that socialism isn't such a bad idea after all.
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Post #269; gunsandreligion wrote: "Sankari, if you can wait until sometime next week,
I can go into it in detail. But the brief summary is,
Obama believe that taxes are a Good Thing.
No red-blooded American believes that."
I have to say, that's probably the silliest thing I've heard in a very long time.
Every sane and rational person understands that taxes are a **necessary evil.** NOBODY likes them, but we have to have them. How else are you going to fund the country?
Would you tell American soldiers: "You'll have to work for free, because we refuse to raise taxes to pay your salaries"?
Would you tell American pensioners: "We refuse to give you a pension because that would require us to tax people, and we think taxes are bad"?
Honestly, the level of political debate in your country is nothing short of JUVENILE.
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Hmm, that is odd. I did proide evidence in response to
237. Ed Inglehart in msg 251 yet that is referred for moderation. I just included a URL to an Obama website and mentioned a piece of Apple software it might also be found on. I made no editorial comment on it so not sure why it was referred.
308. jimgorilla, I have experienced socialism much of my life and no, I don't care for it. For this reason I will oppose any attempt to foist it upon the US. Regardless of who or what is promoting it as a 'necessity'. I have a very good idea how foreigners in Europe at least see the US and it is of little significance to me. In much the same way that I don't offer my views of the countries I have travelled to, to their inhabitants. Why would they care for my view of their nations? Not should they.
Americans are not constantly being told that we are 'ringed with enemies' or anything similar. To ignore the fact that there are states out there which ARE our enemies is disingenuous though. We are not obligated to embrace such nations nor pretend they are friends.
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I think that takes the biscuit.
I have just read that George Bush has asked for "patience" to let financial rescue measures to take effect.
It has taken eight years for the word "patience" to enter the shock and awe of the Bush lexicon.
Maybe it gives a whole new meaning to the word.
It could mean "wait until it sinks in that my eight years at the helm have bankrupted my country and most of the rest of the world as well". Or it could mean "there's an election on November 4 and I'll let the next guy sort out the chaos that I've managed to create."
Or maybe someone's told him about hubris.
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David,
You may well ask!
Peace and prosperity
ed
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309. Sankari wrote:
"Would you tell American pensioners: "We refuse to give you a pension because that would require us to tax people, and we think taxes are bad"?"
You suppose that only a government is able to provide a pension. It would be expected that a pension would be privately provided in the US, as indeed it would in a private sector company in the UK.
No one denies that SOME taxation is necessary to run a country. The argument from conservatives is that it should be kept to a minimum and used only for essential functions of government, and from liberals is that it should be increased in order to be used to support certain segments of society.
So, what gunsandreligion was alluding to was that Obama is in the latter camp while many other Americans are in the former.
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Polish Dude,
There are quite a few Black (and brown) folk, both in the elected Commons and the appointed Lords.You are right to identify the Top Spot as a notable exception. To date, no country in the "European" spawn (including US, Australia, NZ, etc.) has elected a top leader of anything but pure "European" extraction. When Obama becomes the first, we will indeed have even more of which to be proud about the United States of America.
Roll on January!
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#306, srlclark, I too wind up in the libertarian
sector, although I admit that it won't work in practice.
#309, sankari, I stand by my statement. You and
I may believe that taxes are a necessary evil,
but there are those who believe that they are
a way for the state to take power away from
individuals, and to buy votes with the proceeds.
I just don't think that we should give the government
power to do anything that we should be doing
ourselves, voluntarily.
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Post #287; David_Cunard wrote: "Good heavens! A cross between Pauline Hanson and Mary Whitehouse!!"
No. Not even close. Where did the Pauline Hanson reference come from? I didn't say anything even vaguely relevant to the policies of that moronic banshee. Where did the Mary Whitehouse reference come from? I don't recall mentioning censorship at any point.
"Next thing you'll be telling us is that you disapprove of Civil Unions. I can't quite see how you can be anti-abortion and pro-death penalty, but perhaps you'd care to explain."
Very simple; I believe it is hypocritical for a nation to say that it is prepared to kill enemy combatants, but not prepared to kill non-combatants who murder
On the issue of abortion: I am anti-abortion but PRO CHOICE. I believe that abortion should be considered a last resort, not as a means of contraception.
I think it is better for people to take the "morning after" pill instead of waiting 20 weeks to abort a foetus.
I believe abortion should be legal, and I am glad that it IS because the alternative is backyard abortions - and that way madness lies.
"I don't think our mutual friend, Horace Rumpole, would agree with you. You'd be at home on this side of the pond since "recreational drugs" are verboten everywhere."
Horace and I would cross swords over the death penalty. Aside from that, we'd be perfectly fine. I don't see the benefit of legalising cocaine, heroin, ice, crack, etc. I just can't see how that's a good idea.
""If more people took responsibility for themselves instead of waiting for other people to make their lives easier, this world would be a better place."
So easy to say when possibly one is well placed, although "scraping together pennies at the pub" would indicate you are not, even though you live in Notting Hill. Nevertheless, you did once describe yourself as "disabled" so I wonder if you receive any "benefits" under the British system?"
Eh? I think you must be confusing me with someone else. I don't live in Notting Hill. I am not disabled. I do not receive any benefits under the British system. I am an account manager working full time for a large British-based multinational. My wife is is head of department at an inner city school largely populated by children from deprived areas.
I am no stranger to hardship. When I was a child, most of my clothes and shoes came from charity shops because my parents could not afford new ones. My father died when I was 16 years old, and I had to grow up very fast.
I believe that welfare is a *good and necessary service*; indeed, I believe it is an *obligation of the state.* That is why I get so upset when I see it being abused.
I believe that education is a RIGHT; health care is a RIGHT; welfare is a RIGHT. I also believe that RIGHTS
"Your support of Mr Obama would appear to go against everything you believe in, so it's very hard to understand exactly why you not would vote for Mr McCain, whose party represents all that you consider right."
I hope that my position is clearer to you now. Obama does not stand for everything I believe in; for a start, he has no intention of introducing a proper universal healthcare system, which is precisely what America needs. Nevertheless, he does embody many other principles that I support wholeheartedly.
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Dammit, I lost part of my post (#316) by accidentally hitting the "Enter" button while I was still editing it.
I was going to say that I believe RIGHTS bring RESPONSIBILITIES. That's the missing part of the unfinished sentence in my post.
The rest should be clear enough.
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Post #313; Schwerpunkt wrote: "You suppose that only a government is able to provide a pension".
No I don't. I did not say this; I didn't even suggest it.
"It would be expected that a pension would be privately provided in the US, as indeed it would in a private sector company in the UK."
And also in my home country of Australia, where I have a superannuation fund of my own. However, it is the view of the UK and Australia that the government should provide a pension for those who cannot afford to buy a private sector pension.
In America, the view seems to be that people who cannot afford to buy a private sector pension should be left to rot because the American taxpayer has no intention of supporting them.
"No one denies that SOME taxation is necessary to run a country. The argument from conservatives is that it should be kept to a minimum and used only for essential functions of government, and from liberals is that it should be increased in order to be used to support certain segments of society."
Unfortunately the conservatives have a long track record of failing to adequately provide those "essential functions of government". And yes, certain segments of society need to be supported because they cannot support themselves. This is part of the obligation that the state has to its citizens.
Next you'll be telling me that you're opposed to charity!
"So, what gunsandreligion was alluding to was that Obama is in the latter camp while many other Americans are in the former."
His statement went much further than this.
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Barry Haley,
I am unable to find any record of fatalities from the bombings except three of their own folk who accidentally blew themselves up. Apparently, they gave warnings and attempted to limit the damage to property.If you have documentation of any manslaughter or other convictions (or even accusations) I would be pleased to see references.
Thanks
ed
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Post #315; gunsandreligion wrote: "#309, sankari, I stand by my statement. You and
I may believe that taxes are a necessary evil,
but there are those who believe that they are
a way for the state to take power away from
individuals, and to buy votes with the proceeds.
I just don't think that we should give the government
power to do anything that we should be doing
ourselves, voluntarily."
Government frequently finds itself having to do things because other people WON'T do them voluntarily.
On the day that the American people rise up and replace government-owned infrastructure with free hospitals funded by solely charity, free schools funded solely by charity, free universities funded solely by charity, a free interstate highway system funded solely by charity, and free just-about-everything-else funded solely by charity, Congress will be in a position to drop taxes lower than a snake's belly.
But the sad truth is that people are inherently selfish, so that great day will never come. Government is therefore compelled to perform the functions that the citizens either *cannot* or *will not* undertake.
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Another edit to my post #316;
"Very simple; I believe it is hypocritical for a nation to say that it is prepared to kill enemy combatants, but not prepared to kill non-combatants who murder its citizens".
In other words, if someone supports the killing of enemy troops in order to defend the state, they clearly believes that it is legitimate to take life under certain legal conditions.
If they believe that it is legitimate to take life under certain legal conditions, I fail to see how they can argue against the execution of those who threaten the constituents of the state with violent crimes.
David_Cunard, what is the basis of your objection to the death penalty? Are you a pacifist?
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314, Ed
Whilst New Zealand has not had a Maori Prime Minister (although Winston Peters would have if he could have), it has had a Maori Governor General ie. head of state. True the Governor General is politically neutral and appointed by the Queen upon the recommendation of the Prime Minister, but it is worth noting that Archbishop Sir Paul Reeves was head of state; and there is no reason to think this would now be a significant cultural issue should a Maori become the leader of either the National or Labour parties.
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r#309
The dispute about taxes on the Federal and local leval often comes down to the faith of the people paying the taxes.
You are correct no likes paying taxes.
But in the State of Massachusetts there is a Question calling for abolition of the State income tax.
Many of us feel the State is more irresponsible than the Wall Street speuclators who got us into the economic mess. And that to give them money is like giving an achohlic a fine bottle of whiskey
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# 317 # Sankari
Your momentary problem with an anarchic send button worked to good effect because 'rights bring responsibilities' got a post all to itself.
Which is just as it should be ......
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314. At 10:20am on 19 Oct 2008, Ed Iglehart wrote:
"You are right to identify the Top Spot as a notable exception. To date, no country in the "European" spawn (including US, Australia, NZ, etc.) has elected a top leader of anything but pure "European" extraction. When Obama becomes the first, we will indeed have even more of which to be proud about the United States of America."
This is incorrect Australia has had an aboriginal head of State and had a notable jewish one early in the 20th century.
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244. At 00:51am on 19 Oct 2008, ChicagoPolishDude wrote:
Next time you go to England ask an English person of Pakistani decent if they ever feel discriminated against, but I think you already know that answer.
You could also ask them if Europe has ever had female heads of state -but you know that answer.
The US may catch up eventually
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G 'n R (270),
It's a poor job. A bunch of innuendo and use of the "L word" and such to indicate that backing educational initiatives is somehow virtually "communist", etc. As far as I could tell there was not a single even vaguely damaging FACT in the whole piece.I keep an open mind, but I feel I've just wasted ten minutes watching this rubbish.
;-)
ed
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321. At 10:52am on 19 Oct 2008, Sankari wrote:
Another edit to my post #316;
"Very simple; I believe it is hypocritical for a nation to say that it is prepared to kill enemy combatants, but not prepared to kill non-combatants who murder its citizens".
In other words, if someone supports the killing of enemy troops in order to defend the state, they clearly believes that it is legitimate to take life under certain legal conditions.
If they believe that it is legitimate to take life under certain legal conditions, I fail to see how they can argue against the execution of those who threaten the constituents of the state with violent crimes.
The situations are not analagous in any way. For a start killing is not the object of military campaigns, beleive it or not, overcoming the enemy is.
If the enemy surrenders soldiers are not permitted to kill all prisoners simply because they were on the wrong side.
War is generally a political act. No one pretends it is about justice
The DP ihowever s supposed to be about justice. However since one cannot be completely sure the person being executed is actually guilty, and there have been numerous cases where they wren't (Barry George etc etc) it runs the very real risk of butchering innocent people.
The colour and social status of those sentenced to death clearly shows that the system is used in most countries as a form of intimidation and social control.
The fact the US persists with this of course undercuts its attemtps to lecture China and Iran etc - "we don't mind you killing people, but you shouldn't kill Tibetans etc. Or you should have a trial and then kill them."
Finally if you beleive killing is worng, it is wrong, dressing it up in ghastly mummeries and trying to find humane death methods, frankly, if anything make the DP more sickening
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"321. At 10:52am on 19 Oct 2008, Sankari wrote:
Another edit to my post #316;
"Very simple; I believe it is hypocritical for a nation to say that it is prepared to kill enemy combatants, but not prepared to kill non-combatants who murder its citizens".
In other words, if someone supports the killing of enemy troops in order to defend the state, they clearly believes that it is legitimate to take life under certain legal conditions. "
And under Stalin "certain legal conditions" led to the executions of over 1 million people.
Since the State sets the legal conditions this is an irrelevant point.
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To those still fretting over the activities of the youthful William Ayers and the latter-day Professor Ayers, may I point out the career of Joschka Fischer, former Minister of Foreign Affairs and Vice Chancellor of Germany.
It is well worth looking him up on WikiP.
An active participant in extreme student protest during the seventies, Fischer later renounced violence as a means of political change.
He was for many years the most popular politican in Germany, friend of Kofi Annan, confronter of Donald Rumsfeld, and now an employee of Madeleine Albright - a lady not especially known for palling around with terrorists.
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Post #324; eightypercent wrote: "# 317 # Sankari
Your momentary problem with an anarchic send button worked to good effect because 'rights bring responsibilities' got a post all to itself.
Which is just as it should be ......"
Serendipity. :P
My politics are mixed; Americans would accuse me of being a leftist, while David_Cunard has amusingly lumped me with a right-wing racist and a moral crusader (both of which are equally repugnant to me).
In truth, I lean more to the left with regard to the relationship between citizen and state, but more to the right on moral issues. I am probably "left of centre" overall, but not enough to be called a true leftist.
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David [to Sam],
I feel the absence of my guns (confiscated due to failing to renew my permits) in the likelihood that, sooner or later, I will see an American Grey Squirrel appear, and will have to hope to hit it with my catapult (slingshot). I must look into the availability of airguns, but I do miss my 12-bore (gauge).I do agree about "sport", though. It'll be sport when the game (or skeet) starts shooting back.
;-)
ed
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Sriclark (296),
;-)To ponder:
ed
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Post #328; Simon21 wrote: "The situations are not analagous in any way. For a start killing is not the object of military campaigns, beleive it or not, overcoming the enemy is".
I agree. Nevertheless, the state sanctions killing under the rules of war, provided that it is not gratuitous.
"If the enemy surrenders soldiers are not permitted to kill all prisoners simply because they were on the wrong side".
Correct. Because that would be gratuitous.
"War is generally a political act. No one pretends it is about justice".
Agreed. Clauswitz was correct when he wrote that "war is the continuation of Politik by other means". It has nothing to do with justice.
"The DP ihowever s supposed to be about justice. However since one cannot be completely sure the person being executed is actually guilty"
I disagree that one cannot be completely sure that the person being executed is actually guilty. How much doubt is there over the guilt of people like Steve Wright (http://tinyurl.com/54s475 ) and Fred West (http://tinyurl.com/yyr4fo)? None that I can see.
"and there have been numerous cases where they wren't (Barry George etc etc) it runs the very real risk of butchering innocent people".
Sadly, yes. And incarceration runs the risk of leaving innocent people in prison until they die. Which has happened in the past, and still does. Even if you manage to release someone before their term is up, they are often too broken to be re-integrated into society again. Some (ironically) turn to crime as a result.
I believe that society is justified in protecting itself against violent felons who persist in preying upon it.
I do not believe that the death penalty is a deterrent; it clearly isn't. I simply believe it should be reserved for the very worst of criminals who show know remorse and no capacity for rehabilitation.
People like Ed Gein, Jeffrey Dahmer and Peter Sutcliffe - to name just a few.
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# 332
Ed ~ wouldn't it be easier just to apply for a new gun licence ? G & R will give you a reference.
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I can not sleep. My foot hurts.
(Note to Ladybobbiebea: I did not get pain meds because I am allergic to most all of the good stuff so it is Advil for me.)
I had some thoughts. I read an article here that speculated Obama's mother might/would have chosen abortion if it had been legal at the time. It seemed a presumption for the writer to assume an understanding of the motivations of people unknown to him/her. It was a very odd article.
Even then, there were places to go and doctors who would provide these services safely if required. I knew women who did so. I believe Obama's mother and father made a personal decision to marry and have their child.
I am pro-choice because I believe that a woman's body belongs only to her and not to any state or government.
These people who call themselves pro-life and all pro-choice people, somehow, anti-life, should really examine how they conduct their own lives and what they actually do and believe that really does support life.
I consider myself VERY pro-life because I am for peace in the world. ("War is not healthy for children and other living things.")
My family has very personal suffering from war. I want an end to war. This is pro-life!
I think that EVERY child born into this world should be wanted with joy, cherished, fed, nurtured and educated with love. How many children in our world are suffering today and what are these pro-life people doing to relieve that suffering? I do all I can to protect, feed and nurture children around the world. This is pro-life!
I believe in an inter-connected web of existence. What hurts you, hurts me, hurts everyone. This is pro-life!
Finally, I do believe in taxes. Those who have should give. Unfortunately, many who have only want more and would not voluntarily pay for public services much less to help the most vulnerable. This is why so much in our society is failing today. Paying a fair share of taxes is also pro-life.
I have been truly blessed in my life and I choose to give. This is pro-life!
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Post #329; Simon21 wrote: "And under Stalin "certain legal conditions" led to the executions of over 1 million people.
Since the State sets the legal conditions this is an irrelevant point".
It is not an irrelevant point. Under "certain legal conditions", people are incarcerated in the UK every day - and the State sets those legal conditions. So may we now argue that incarceration is wrong? Of course not.
Stalin's Russia was a brutal dictatorship. The UK is a liberal democracy; it has checks and balances designed to prevent and correct the abuse of power. That is why we trust it with the power to set legal conditions for incarceration.
Simply demonstrating that the power has been abused in the past by other governments which are not equivalent to our own, is not sufficient to prove that the power should not exist.
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Standing in line marking time
Waiting for the welfare dime
Because they cant buy a job
The man in the silk suit hurries by
As he catches the poor old lady's eyes
Just for fun he says get a job
They say hey little boy you cant go
Where the others go
Because you dont look like they do
Said hey old man how can you stand
To think that way
Did you really think about it
Before you made the rules
Well they passed a law in '64
To give those who aint got a little more
But it only goes so far
Because the law don't change anothers mind
When all it sees at the hiring time
Is the line on the color bar
Thats just the way it is
Some things will never change
Thats just the way it is
But dont you believe them
(B R H)
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Sankari (309),
Check your irony circuits.;-)
ed
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#269 But the brief summary is,
Obama believe that taxes are a Good Thing....No red-blooded American believes that.
This is the kind of broad ranging opinion that becomes the mantra of the masses. I disagree! We need to have more tax revenue, however, not through raising taxes.
We need to close loopholes, repeal the tax laws passed during the past 8 years and fix the corruption in the military procurement process. By taking care of the details, we could have probably 5-8% more revenues jsut by being careful.
Oh, I would raise tax on gasoline to encourage conservation and alternative energy sources.
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ref #299
Here is a scary thought Marbles: I also consider myself an ndependent and hate the labels
I am for a strong foriegn policy and military(conservative) gay marriage (liberal) womene's right to choose (liberal) lower taxes (conservative) environmental laws(liberal) off shore drilling (conservative) rehauling of the educational system (conservative) ending of Union entitlements (conservative)
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Farming?
It has been turned into an industry but in my opinion that is a perversion. For my family, though we have done many other things over the years, farming, growing things and nurturing the land is a way of life.
How can anyone be connected to this world without understanding where and how their food is provided? This is also pro-life.
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Ref 313
"You suppose that only a government is able to provide a pension. It would be expected that a pension would be privately provided in the US, as indeed it would in a private sector company in the UK."
Some US corporations used to provide pension benefits decades ago, I am fortunate to receive a small one, but that is now a rarety.
The reason most corporations have discontinued traditional pension plans is because of the need to reduce operating costs and be competitive. Focus on profitability and competitiveness resulted in most companies replacing their traditional pension plans with what we call 401k plans based on employee contributions to their own retirement, with the employer contributing a percentage (typically around 50%). Many mid size companies are increasingly hiring part-time workers to circumvent labor laws dealing with overtime pay, paid vacation and sick leave, etc.
Right or wrong, one of the top priorities of most US corporations is to reduce operating costs to increase profit margins and be competitive. Unfortunately for us, even the draconian reductions in benefits are not enough to offset the difference in salaries between what workers in the US earn and what those in Asia and Latin America make. The result is that more and more corporations simply relocate their plants overseas to the detriment of American workers.
As a society, we must choose between personal responsibility and government-provided services because the truth is that we can not rely on alms and that private industry is simply not going to provide the services we need.
In my opinion, government has a role in more than just military defense and monetary policies. Government must provide pensions and healthcare benefits that allow retirees to live in dignity, must invest in infrastructure and, most importantly, must invest in education as that is, without a doubt, the most critical element for a better future.
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Simon21,
Australia has had an Aboriginal Head of State?? Can you illuminate? Regarding NZ, see Mark's comment above. He was appointed, not elected. I didn't realise you considered Jews non-"European". Some analyses classify Jews as "non-white", I know, but....In any event, I, like Michelle, am very proud of my country's exhibited ability to rise above its baser elements...
Salaam, etc.
ed
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To Edinglehart
Two of my brothers once killed a skunk with their slingshots. My mother made them skin and dress it. She cooked it and made them eat it.
Her lesson for them was "Do not kill anything you are not prepared to eat."
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#4 David_Cunard
Thanks for that David, most useful, apart from one small problem the spell checker on my PC (if that's where it is) seems to be stuck on US English. I wonder if the spell checker is built in to the web browser? I currently use Firefox, I'll have a look and let you all know.
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More sinister activity? Robocalls from "Joe the plumber" compliments of the Colorado Democratic Party :
So they have plumbers in Colorado?;-)
ed
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# Malcolm at 340
And in the UK we need to have a very close look at the Audit Commission - the body that is meant to ensure that Government money is spent wisely and well.
Their former CEO resigned earlier this year because of his inexplicable eye-watering expenses.
Now we discover that very recently they invested two tranches of considerable amounts (millions) of taxpayers money into Icelandic banks.
Oh yeh ? Who's the smartypants now oh bossyboots Audit Commission ?
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Post #339; Ed Iglehart wrote: "Check your irony circuits.
;-)
ed"
;)
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80%, (335),
The main problem was the eight passport photos needed (Whenever I went to "town", the video shop was shut), and the fact that you need to seriously impose upon two people's goodwill to get the serious references required. This is not to deny the excellence of the UK controls on gun ownership - quite the contrary.I was most impressed when, a mere four days after my permits expired, I was greeted on the doorstep by two policemen in armoured jackets....of course, I readily surrendered my firearms, was cautioned (and later informed I wouldn't be prosecuted). I'm pleased the UK takes such matters seriously.
The irony, of course, is that anyone with criminal intent can probably get whatever weaponry (s)he wants, and the police will have little or no knowledge of it.
The police noted the obvious disuse of the two rifles (not cleaned or oiled in a decade?), but I do miss the shotgun because the magpies have begun to return and hang out again. I love wildlife, and I realise that even nest-robbing is a valid lifestyle, but I do object to playground bullies and ganging up....anthropomorphism is alive and well at North Glen
;-)
ed
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Ref 341
"I am for a strong foriegn policy and military(conservative) gay marriage (liberal) womene's right to choose (liberal) lower taxes (conservative) environmental laws(liberal) off shore drilling (conservative) rehauling of the educational system (conservative) ending of Union entitlements (conservative)"
Magic, as you know, most Americans don't fit the conservative and liberal categories 100%. I am a Democrat but I only support abortion when the life of the mother is in danger (lean conservative), I oppose gay marriage (conservative) but support civil unions and oppose all forms of discrimination because of sexual orientation, gender, or ethnicity (lean liberal), I support gun control (liberal), oppose the death penalty (liberal), I believe the only wars that are justified are those carried out in self-defense (liberal), I believe government has a role in providing health care, pensions, and in improving education (liberal) and last. but not least in my book, I believe in the novel idea of paying for the services we get or discontinuing those services.
Ironically, in the USA the latter is considered liberal since the litmus test used to define a fiscal liberal or conservative is based strictly on who proposes taxes to pay for what we get. In my book, the definition of that term should be the opposite, a government or society that live beyond its means and uses borrowed money to survive is ultra-liberal - not to mention immature and irresponsible -and those willing to pay for what they get are true fiscal conservatives.
I also believe that the nationalization of banks and financial institutions proposed by the Bush Administration, and McCain's proposal to buy real estate is beyond liberal and a blatant example of socialism at its best. When I heard McCain make his $300B real estate proposal during the second debate the first thing that came to my mind were those hapless Moscuvites we saw on TV decades ago living in their tiny government-owned apartments...hardly the image a purportedly conservative candidate should project.
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Aquarizonagal,
You're in good company!andGood company indeed!
Peace to all
ed
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SNL did quite well having the real Palin in their midst...
The Alaska rap number is a nice touch
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I see that Obama raised $150 million in September alone.
There simply has to be a message there for all the people who think only of their bank accounts.
Fortunately I am too pre-occupied with Sunday lunch to analyse it all just now Might feel differently tomorrow, Monday.
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Dominick.
It's the law! A corporation is a pile of money with the sole purpose of becoming a bigger pile of money.;-)
ed
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Back to Ed, guns and squirrels - see the colour section of today's Observer. These folk mean business.
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What the Papers are saying,
Once again, it seems McCain is going down in flames - hard habit to break, it appears....;-)
ed
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Finally??
??
ed
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"344. At 12:34pm on 19 Oct 2008, Ed Iglehart wrote:
Simon21,
"This is incorrect Australia has had an aboriginal head of State and had a notable jewish one early in the 20th century."
Australia has had an Aboriginal Head of State?? Can you illuminate?"
I am incorrect, he became governor of South Australia, I thought he went on to become GG.
In any event he was appointed by the legislature so the point is still relevant.
As regards Sir Isaac Isaacs, he became the first jewish head of state of any western country.
And yes, at the time, this was considered outrageous.
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T1m0thy (346),
Firefox has a British English spellchecker dictionary available (check addons). If installed, it can be activated by right-clicking in any comment box.
Good luck
ed
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Ed, guns and squirrels.
I agree that the photograph business is an almost insurmountable bore. But we all have to grit our teeth and go through it. At least its better than unsolicited photos taken at 3 o'clock in the morning.
Never worry about bothering elected people. That's what they're there for. And giving an endorsement to a good citizen is the most pleasurable of their tasks.
Believe me, I know.
Pace.
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#30 sugardad
Excellent.
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ref #242
then my question would be should family farms be protected if they are ineficent?
I have no problem with family business as mine is.
But I tire of hearing about the mystique of the family farm. One of the few problems we don't have right now in the U.S is the ability to produce enough food.
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Post #325; Simon21 wrote: "This is incorrect Australia has had an aboriginal head of State and had a notable jewish one early in the 20th century."
I'm Australian, and I can't remember us ever having an Aboriginal head of state. Australia's head of state has always been the British monarch. It is therefore impossible for Australia to have an Aboriginal head of state under our current constitution.
If you meant "Prime Minister", the answer remains the same; we have had no Aboriginal prime ministers.
Did we ever have a Jewish one? Not that I can recall, but I'm ready to be corrected on that.
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"334. At 11:59am on 19 Oct 2008, Sankari wrote:
Post #328; Simon21 wrote: "The situations are not analagous in any way. For a start killing is not the object of military campaigns, beleive it or not, overcoming the enemy is".
I agree. Nevertheless, the state sanctions killing under the rules of war, provided that it is not gratuitous."
Killing is not sanctioned, self defence is, and self defense is sanctioned in civil society.
But once a person is rendered incapable of resistance - killing them becomes gratuitous, such as in execution.
Shooting someone once you have secured them, be they a burgular or mugger or enemy POW is considered murder.
"If the enemy surrenders soldiers are not permitted to kill all prisoners simply because they were on the wrong side".
Correct. Because that would be gratuitous.
"War is generally a political act. No one pretends it is about justice".
Agreed. Clauswitz was correct when he wrote that "war is the continuation of Politik by other means". It has nothing to do with justice.
"The DP ihowever s supposed to be about justice. However since one cannot be completely sure the person being executed is actually guilty"
I disagree that one cannot be completely sure that the person being executed is actually guilty. How much doubt is there over the guilt of people like Steve Wright (http://tinyurl.com/54s475 ) and Fred West (http://tinyurl.com/yyr4fo)? None that I can see."
I have considerable reservations over Fred West who I beleive was possibly murdered to prevent him from revealing his accomplices. The idea he operated alone with his wife is risible.
"and there have been numerous cases where they wren't (Barry George etc etc) it runs the very real risk of butchering innocent people".
"Sadly, yes. And incarceration runs the risk of leaving innocent people in prison until they die. Which has happened in the past, and still does. Even if you manage to release someone before their term is up, they are often too broken to be re-integrated into society again. Some (ironically) turn to crime as a result."
Yes but we can free innocent people in Gaol, we cannot raise the dead. And if someone innocent is executed what is the essential difference between this and murder? That one was more ritualised?
"I believe that society is justified in protecting itself against violent felons who persist in preying upon it."
Its a nice phrase, I beleive all pedophiles should be arrested and convicted. However that does not mean I beleive that every and all accusations of pedophilia should automatically lead to convictions.
"I do not believe that the death penalty is a deterrent; it clearly isn't. I simply believe it should be reserved for the very worst of criminals who show know remorse and no capacity for rehabilitation."
Every body has capacity for redemption, human beings are like that. It is ultimately impossible to judge.
"People like Ed Gein, Jeffrey Dahmer and Peter Sutcliffe - to name just a few."
Yes and the Guildford six, the Brimingham innocents, James Hanratty etc all show we cannot have perfect penalties until we have indisputable perfect justice.
And that is not something we are ever likely to get this side of the grave.
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80%, Thanks for this!
xx
Disarmed ed
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Post #359; Simon21 wrote: "As regards Sir Isaac Isaacs, he became the first jewish head of state of any western country.
And yes, at the time, this was considered outrageous".
Good stuff, but the GG isn't head of state. He's merely the representative of the head of state. Australia's head of state is the British monarch.
Interestingly, we've just appointed our first female GG. I'm quite proud of this, but I'll be even happier when we're a republic.
:)
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Re: #360. You can blame Ben Franklin for too few vowels. We have a 10K Bridge Challenge upcoming and I will run past the lightning bolt and key that mark its New Jersey ramp. I will be sporting my Obama Biden Vote Nov 4 tee shirt along with many others. We had conservative chat show host Michael Smerconish endorse him recently in another link Ed provided. I could not even get close to one of the rallies held in Philadelphia for all the people, all ages and walks of life. Powell's endorsement certainly helps.
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Post #358; Ed Iglehart wrote: "Finally??
??"
At last, the ugly secret is out: Colin Powell is a shameless leftist socialist who stands for big government and high taxes!
:P
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And the SNL "Cold Open" is excellent. At least the lass has a sense of humour, and for that, well done!
Salaam, etc.
ed
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Oh my God, Senator McCain is a disgrace to the American Senators. How can a law maker of his calibre be flip flopping from one issue to another without consistency. Believe it or not, McCain is consistently inconsistent. Hear him say, 'Obama is not ready to rule, Obama is a supporter of Ayers, Obama is a terrorist'.........What next? Don't be surprised to hear him say Obama is a gay in his next baseless allegations.
The greatest mistake Americans would make is to elect McCain as the next president. McCain would be as good as Sadam Husseine ruling America. What do you think would happen if Sadam Husseine should be the next president of the US? Hmmmmm, America is gonna sink. I don't pray to witness the presidency of this irrational and inconsistent senator. With all his so called experience, he would be better off if he should honourably retire now as he is really tired. His brain is too old to contain American issues now.
IronAnsu
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# 363 ~ Magic and the farmland
A significant question which, as usual, probably doesn't have a significant answer.
Why, Magic, do you you pursue these matters on a BBC website ? They are important and they should be addressed at home - in your own country's discussion forums.
As you know only too well by this time, we aren't a soft touch for your convoluted and muddled views.
The trouble is, Magic, that we do not understand your thought processes and that can only be put down to the fact that you muddle us every time that you post.
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Simon, Sankari, and any others interested,
My point was that no "European" democracy has yet elected a non-white leader, and that the USA is on the verge of doing so. As to Jewish leaders, we have had (and have) many in high office, if not in the Top Spots, but I believe Benjamin Disraeli was Jewish and British Prime Minister.
The Mayor of Galveston Texas is in the list of signatories here....
Salaam/Shalom
ed
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Majik,
Which reminds meI am old enough to remember when the "farm vote" was a major political consideration for anyone contemplating high office....
A toast to absent friends,
ed
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Boy Oh boy - has anyone seen Colin Powell's endorsement of Obama (on msnbc at a touch of your mouse).
Strong, powerful, serious - and brought a tear to my eyes.
And if Powell hadn't believed this he wouldn't have said it.
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#327, Ed, which "facts" presented in the video
do you dispute?
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Now, THAT'S what I call an endorsement!
Considered, thoughtful, but unequivocal. And delivered like the "elder statesman" he has become.
God Bless Colon Powell
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ref #374
In reply should the farm vote as a special interest or any other special interest be that important.
One of the historical problems in Japan is that their farm lobby force high tarrifs on food product. If you spoke to the average urban dweller they would not be in favor of it.
We all belong at least philosophicly to special interest groups.
One of my concerns with a Obama Presidency and a democrat majority is that special interest groups that I don't see as a benefit will have more influence:
Trial Lawyers
Labor Unions
ACLU
People in favor of the Fairness Doctrine
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Senator McCain is a master tactician who is as deadly as Cyanide. Americans should not listen to his desperate moves to get to the white house; he is not fit to be the next president. His running mate Palin just hear people running and she starts running without knowing what people are running for. Believe me they would fail as they have no focus. McCain and Palin has alot of unanswered questions to answer. Let them not throw stones cos they live in glass houses. I have no doubt that they sleep like a baby these days. May God help these loosers to think positively for America. God bless America.
IronAnsu
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Justin almost everyone on this site is against McCain - you can do some balanced commentary rather than getting the Obama supporters in frenzy?
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G 'n R (376),
I don't dispute any of the "facts", but there were inferences drawn and, as I noted, innuendo. The entire piece was an excellent example of almost every possible rhetorical fallacy.
If such stuff enables you to vote for McCain, I have overestimated your intelligence. I hope I haven't.
Perhaps I should answer your question thus: "Guns, which "facts" presented in the video do you find persuasive (or even relevant)?"
Peace to all
ed
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ref #372
First there are several other American posters on this web sight.
I am unsurprised you do't understand. Because you are like the intolerant liberals and conservative who did not want to have a reasoned discussion.
Such as the poster ref #379 who seems to think a support for McCain is evil.
As an example there is a poster from FL who I disagree with on most issues but we can disagree without engaging in personal attacks.
Jackforge, Marbles and the rest of you might want to follow that example.
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And another thing ~
All praise to MSNC - they allowed Colin Powell as a greatly revered elder statesman to talk and to make his (formidable) case without interruption.
In the Uk, we would have had some presenter (usually someone on the make)jabbering away during the important points.
You only have to look back at the serious points that Peter Mandelson was making this mornig and the silly interventionist squawking every time that he was pursueing an important point
Will these people who are trying to make a name for themselves in television realise that not only are they not that important - but that they stand in the way of the knowledge that we viewers are seeking ?
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"382. At 3:55pm on 19 Oct 2008, MagicKirin wrote:
ref #372
First there are several other American posters on this web sight.
I am unsurprised you do't understand. Because you are like the intolerant liberals and conservative who did not want to have a reasoned discussion.
Such as the poster ref #379 who seems to think a support for McCain is evil.
As an example there is a poster from FL who I disagree with on most issues but we can disagree without engaging in personal attacks.
Jackforge, Marbles and the rest of you might want to follow that example."
Coming from someone who cannot see Palestinians as human beings and has problems with other ethnic groups, this is like hearing Stalin moan about the lack of politcal tolerance in Poland.
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"378. At 3:35pm on 19 Oct 2008, MagicKirin wrote:
ref #374
In reply should the farm vote as a special interest or any other special interest be that important.
One of the historical problems in Japan is that their farm lobby force high tarrifs on food product. If you spoke to the average urban dweller they would not be in favor of it.
We all belong at least philosophicly to special interest groups.
One of my concerns with a Obama Presidency and a democrat majority is that special interest groups that I don't see as a benefit will have more influence:
Trial Lawyers
Labor Unions
ACLU
People in favor of the Fairness Doctrine"
That is because you are extremely right wing. You could hardly be expected to approve of anything that involves extending political rights etc.
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367. At 2:50pm on 19 Oct 2008, Sankari wrote:
Post #359; Simon21 wrote: "As regards Sir Isaac Isaacs, he became the first jewish head of state of any western country.
And yes, at the time, this was considered outrageous".
Good stuff, but the GG isn't head of state. He's merely the representative of the head of state. Australia's head of state is the British monarch.
Interestingly, we've just appointed our first female GG. I'm quite proud of this, but I'll be even happier when we're a republic."
True, but the point stands, the monarchty is not elected, this is a given, however Governor General is selected by the elected legislature, and is the one who performs as head of State
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#381, Ed, I'll do some more research, and make up
a list.
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Hello-
Have you any information on the Diebold/Premier
voting machine problems in Memphis, Tn?
I worry about this non-paper form being abused.
Please look into this before the election.
Thanks
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I've come in on this pretty late, and there are lots of interesting threads.....
So here goes
#244 Chicago Polish dude .....
The first black British MPs were elected in 1987 - 3 of them.
Today there are 15 black and Asian Members of the House of Commons and 28 in the House of Lords.
There are also 4 black British MEPs in the European Parliament.
Given the the vast majority of our ethnic minority groups arrived in British AFTER the second world war this is pretty good going.
Yes there are racists everywhere, and they tend to make the news more than they ought to. I burn with shame at the thought of the BNP. But to suggest we are unable to comment as we do not have a black head of government is ridiculous.
If we are so racist in Europe why does Obama consistently poll 90% approval here.
We don't do black or white .... we like shades of grey (or brown) to or politics.
Plus, love her or hate her we elected a woman Prime Minister in 1979 - against a far more unenlightened social background.
Peace to all and THANK YOU Colin Powell
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Re #226 + #248 - Dominic & Marbles
Atheists should NOT keep quiet about their lack of belief. Your grandson is both entitled and correct to state his position.
However he is pretty brave to do it where he lives.
I recently met some Florida ladies and got into a perhaps unwise discussion about politics with them. They seemed astounded that I did not share their view that Sarah Palin was the potential saviour of the morals of the USA. When they discovered I was an atheist they were visibly shocked, and told me they would pray for me ..... which really could be considered quite insulting. If they'd said it to a Jew, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist etc it would be unthinkable.
Why are atheists looked on as being a bit wierd, when everyone else seems to have an imaginary friend?
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RomeStu, #390, I know a number of god-fearing people. They are all around me here in North Idaho. It seems to me that some people in awe of life must believe that there is a higher being to make sense of it all. My own way is to just accept that there are many things I don't understand. So this is how I deal with these people - tolerance an acceptance, and a shrug of the shoulders. In return I get their prayers, and we all get along.
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375 - "If Powell didn't believe this, he wouldn't have said it".
I wish I had as much faith in his integrity. Do you think he really believed in the Weapons of Mass Destruction when he was pushing that myth on behalf of Bush?
Lots of Democrates despise Powell, and do not welcome his late endorsement.
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#333
Paine was wrong!
In the first place we're obviously not a community of saints, and so need government anyway to restrain our wickedness. Expecting us all to be "good" (and what does goodness require? does everyone agree?) is a little naive.
In the second place even a community of saints would need some mechanism for involving all its members in a decision procedure, organizing their efforts and financing them. This is called "a government".
So neither government nor taxes can be dismissed as simply Bad Things: they are the way communities get things done, and the way that some other things aren't done. We can reasonably dispute about priorities, and about the level of community that is best fitted for particular problems, but rejecting the whole idea gets us nowhere.
Even anarchists (with whom I do indeed often have some sympathy) need some form of government, and some sanction against those who don't go along with the community decision (as it might be, not to allow the accumulation of personal capital beyond some chosen point, and not to let one generation's decisions rule all later generations).
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Hello again ....
#321 Sankari, in general you talk alot of sense, so please don't take this personally.
Objections to the Death Penalty...
1) It doesn't work as a deterent - see US murder rate vs murder rate in Europe with no death penalty.
2) cost - consistently shown to cost more to exucute than to imprison for life.
3) No appeal possible. Therefore if further evidence comes to light it is too late to prove innocence.
4) Uncivilised - the state should be bound by its own laws.
5) In a predominantly Christian-cultured world it should be anathaema to any anyone holding basic Christian beliefs - (atheists can be anti-death on ethical grounds)
6) the enemy combatant comparison holds no water for reason 3 above.
Peace to all
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377,
Ed, 80%, thanks for the link to the full endorsement of Obama by Colin Powell. I'd seen the abridged version on the BBC news website but the full one carries even more weight. Much, much, much respect for Colin Powell.
Five or Six years ago I had some interesting discussions, occasionally heated (!!), with an American friend who was based at Mildenhall at the time - one of which raised the question as to who would win in a Presidential contest between Hilary Clinton and Colin Powell. Any thoughts?
I think it would have been an interesting campaign to watch.
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#390 RomeStu
"Atheists should NOT keep quiet about their lack of belief."
But you do have a belief! You believe that there is no God.
Only agnostics can claim not to have an irrational faith on an unknowable issue.
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ref #385
Simon your ignorance is showing again
Trial Lawyers
Outrageous awards that hiked up insurance rate, like the women who droven with hot coffee between her knees.
Labor Unions
Who want to abolish the secreat ballot, so workers who don't want unions will be under pressure and also want Union only job sights)
ACLU
Who don't want toa llow ROTC on campus, don't want to allow religous faiths to promote holidays symbols on municipal sights
People in favor of the Fairness Doctrine"
(That doctrine is designn to outlaw modearte and conservative networks. Meaning you would have to have Rush Limbaugh paired with Rachel Madow. But you wouldn't have to have Rachel Madow on Air american paired with Limbaugh
That is because you are extremely right wing. You could hardly be expected to approve of anything that involves extending political rights etc.
No Simple Simon being Pro U.S and Israel and being against terrorist groups like Hamas and Hezbollah does not make you extreme.
But since you are the opposite of those views we know who is extreme
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Post #394; RomeStu wrote: "Hello again ....
#321 Sankari, in general you talk alot of sense, so please don't take this personally.
Objections to the Death Penalty...
1) It doesn't work as a deterent - see US murder rate vs murder rate in Europe with no death penalty".
I have already stated that it doesn't work as a deterrent. I have never claimed that it does. We have no argument here.
"2) cost - consistently shown to cost more to exucute than to imprison for life".
No. The additional cost only results from the massively complex and unnecessarily prolonged appeal process, in addition to the cost of keeping the prisoner incarcerated while this process is ongoing. Execution as a process is much cheaper than keeping someone in prison for 40+ years.
"3) No appeal possible. Therefore if further evidence comes to light it is too late to prove innocence".
Plenty of appeals possible before the execution date (see above), which is precisely why such cases tend to drag on for so long.
"4) Uncivilised - the state should be bound by its own laws".
Capital punishment does not preclude this. The state declares that murder is illegal. But when two soldiers fight in a war and one kills the other, we do not call this "murder".
Equally, when the state executes a convicted murderer, how can this be called "murder"? It is not murder; it is punishment.
"5) In a predominantly Christian-cultured world it should be anathaema to any anyone holding basic Christian beliefs - (atheists can be anti-death on ethical grounds)".
I'm a disestablishmentarian; I believe that church and state should ALWAYS be separate. Secular states should not implement legislation on the basis of religious belief systems.
"6) the enemy combatant comparison holds no water for reason 3 above".
Point #3 was about the inability to prove innocence after the execution. But an enemy combatant is already guilty; there's no innocence to prove. Under the rules of war, he must be kept alive if he surrenders; he has an escape clause.
I am arguing that there is no justification for offering an escape clause for certain types of felons (see the list of names I presented in my previous post).
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Re. Post #396; atheism is a *lack* of belief; not a belief that there is no god.
The term itself ("a-theist") means "without god". Other words follow the same formula: "amoral" ("without morals"); "apolitical" ("without politics").
The atheist does not *believe* that there is no god. He simply affirms that he has *no belief* in a god.
Atheism is not a belief, but a lack of belief.
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#83 AsaScot
Asa, I see you have the same problem as I. MagicKirin will rant and rave is, I strongly suspect, a racist and doesn't give a damn about truth or ethics as far as I can see.
I gave him the chance, a few days ago, to refute the racist allegation and a few others but he point blank refused to reply.
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"398. At 5:19pm on 19 Oct 2008, Sankari wrote:
Post #394; RomeStu wrote: "Hello again ....
#321 Sankari, in general you talk alot of sense, so please don't take this personally.
Objections to the Death Penalty...
1) It doesn't work as a deterent - see US murder rate vs murder rate in Europe with no death penalty".
I have already stated that it doesn't work as a deterrent. I have never claimed that it does. We have no argument here.
"2) cost - consistently shown to cost more to exucute than to imprison for life".
No. The additional cost only results from the massively complex and unnecessarily prolonged appeal process, in addition to the cost of keeping the prisoner incarcerated while this process is ongoing. Execution as a process is much cheaper than keeping someone in prison for 40+ years."
But the appeal process is surely necessary. Are you advocating lynching?
"3) No appeal possible. Therefore if further evidence comes to light it is too late to prove innocence".
Plenty of appeals possible before the execution date (see above), which is precisely why such cases tend to drag on for so long."
But you will concede many don't.
And therefore execution will always be the expensive option.
"4) Uncivilised - the state should be bound by its own laws".
Capital punishment does not preclude this. The state declares that murder is illegal. But when two soldiers fight in a war and one kills the other, we do not call this "murder"."
But this is not the same thing as has been explained.
"Equally, when the state executes a convicted murderer, how can this be called "murder"? It is not murder; it is punishment."
No because a soldier fights in self defense or to overcome an enemy, he does not fight to kill as such.
This is a fundamental difference to execution.
"5) In a predominantly Christian-cultured world it should be anathaema to any anyone holding basic Christian beliefs - (atheists can be anti-death on ethical grounds)".
I'm a disestablishmentarian; I believe that church and state should ALWAYS be separate. Secular states should not implement legislation on the basis of religious belief systems."
That does not mean a state can abrogate morality per se
"6) the enemy combatant comparison holds no water for reason 3 above".
Point #3 was about the inability to prove innocence after the execution. But an enemy combatant is already guilty; there's no innocence to prove. Under the rules of war, he must be kept alive if he surrenders; he has an escape clause."
Which is why you analogy fails. A victim of execution has no escape clause. Ceasing to resist is no escape.
"I am arguing that there is no justification for offering an escape clause for certain types of felons (see the list of names I presented in my previous post)."
But if excuting these means you also execute innocent people then your point fails.
Stalin's purges are not justified by the fact that some of his victims were actually guilty.
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#399 Sankari
At the risk of debating how many angels can balance on a pinhead ........
I agree on the origin of the term, but words change their meaning over time and place.
In popular usage in Scotland "atheist" is equivalent to "strong" atheism and agnostic to "weak" atheism.
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397. At 5:18pm on 19 Oct 2008, MagicKirin wrote:
ref #385
Simon your ignorance is showing again"
But not as much as yours
Trial Lawyers
Outrageous awards that hiked up ins