Reagan, Clinton, W, and Obama
Around Appalachia this morning people are waking bleary-eyed and opening their FTs with their diner-served egg muffins and expostulating: "Holy Cow! Britain's premier business paper has come out for Obama..."
I thought the FT's point about the need for a president to be good with crowds, eloquent and persuasive and charismatic, was a good one. Reagan had it of course and so did Clinton and - let me be controversial here - so did W in his own funny way.
I saw him wow people in 2004 - speeches with good lines well delivered. The last time I saw McCain, he was pedestrian - the biggest cheers came for Sarah Palin.
Is a way with verbiage "a priceless asset" as the FT claims, or a meaningless even sinister non-virtue as the McCain people claim? You do need to make a case convincingly, particularly abroad. This Obama would do.
There is more to come in the Appalachia-rocking endorsements, I can reveal: the Economist newspaper will be next. Being a fair-minded chap, the Economist editor - the decider - appointed two senior journalists to make the cases for Obama and McCain. At the time of writing, the white smoke has not yet appeared but McCain has less hope being chosen by the Economist than Sarah Palin has becoming an honorary citizen of Paris. Paris France that is...
And a postscript here, from an eagle-eyed British reporter - fascinating and illuminating that McCain is paying Obama supporters to work for him.
Mind you I suppose they could point out that mercenary armies in European conflicts in days of yore used to be rather successful...
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Not that I disagree with the FT's assessment, but I can't help thinking that the average American voter won't be too swayed by this.
Obviously Sarah Palin won't even be aware of the FT's existence, far less its comments.......
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Many have no idea of the "unitary executive"
which four Supreme Court justices are said to endorse.
One reason for the desperation of the Republicans in these ultimate days is that their deeds, done under cover of the "unitary executive" will be subject to prosecution unless they continue in power.
____________________
Could these recent cross-border attacks by Americans be part of the "October surprise" planned by the desperate Republicans?
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Obama is a stirring speaker who gets his points across clearly.
Macain often stumbles and mispeaks. He needs a teleprompter and can't even read it properly.
Europe has choosen Obama as the candidate they would rather deal with because he also is not a warmonger like macain.
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Leaders who inspire have done it through their oratory - Churchill in the UK during WWII, Kennedy with in his inauguration speech, Clinton at the beginning of his first term, Obama electrifying the audience with his 2004 convention speech.
Seldom has there been such a need for a new world leader who has the confidence to use speech to communicate with the electorate.
That is why so much of the world is energised by Obama - they see not just the man but also the yawning vacuum left after eight years of denying the basic human need to be both reassured and inspired.
The tragedy is that, if he wins, Obama's oratory will have be put to use in telling us some very hard truths but successful leaders have never shirked from this.
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Ah, that's the election done then. The FT has spoken! I mean it's not exactly a well read paper; outside of the bankers in the city your average man in the street (either side of the pond) hardly buys it for the crossword.
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ref #3
I disagree with you on this point.
Obama does best when he has a set script. McCain does better when he can improvise and is not stuck in a single position or using a teleprompter.
As far as the endorsement, I don't think it will matter . A foriegn media endorsement can only influence negativly when it condescends to the target audience.
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Who needs a teleprompter?
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=eDJSVPAx8xc
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# 2 Xie Ming
These attacks are doing - further - terrible harm to America's reputation in the world.
It is horrifying to hear that they have been carried out not just in one country, but two. One finds oneself praying that the reports are untrue, but I fear that they are only too accurate.
If it's a planned 'October surprise' it is backfiring horribly and gives the impression of a military spiralling out of control.
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Interesting article tucked away in The Economist above about the fact that John McCain is not loved in Arizona. Speaks volumes.
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My gut feeling, from a lot of the comments in the press, is that if the US electorate are so fickle, or just plain daft, as to vote for the other side because Hilary Clinton was passed over for Veep, or they think they can relate to Mrs Palin, then the US deserves the President they elect.
I just don't think the rest of the world deserves or needs this though.
The real problem to me is that the electorate over here is just as bad. Right now, everyone seems to hate Brown. Possibly not as much as anyone has ever hated Thatcher, but you never know.
So, all these 'swing' voters will switch from a Socialst to a Conservative ticket just 'like that'? Has no-one got any principles any more?
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ref No.6"Obama does best when he has a set script. McCain does better when he can improvise and is not stuck in a single position or using a teleprompter."
--
Hmmm. You mean like when he said `My friends...' 22 times in 1/2 an hour, and claimed he knew how to get Bin Laden.....?
I agree he's smarter than GWB but not by much and he gets trapped in tactical cul-de-sacs. He has no vision beyond the next day's tactics of `getting away with something' (see `underdog-ism') and his oratorical skills both reflect and illustrate that.
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The Times report is a classic - well spotted !!!
Will Obama be magnanimous if he is victorious and hire some 'out-of-work' McCain aides to keep the jobless figures looking better ?
Maybe he could hire them to tidy up the banners [though I suspect that has already been done..] or even help him to 'hit the ground running...
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#6 Magickirin
I take it you haven't seen McCain's latest attempt at public speaking:
"I agree with him (Obama). No, I mean I disagree with you (Republican crowd). Er, sorry, I mean I agree with you and disagree with him"
That's the kind of guy whose finger we want on the button.
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Sarah Palin shoul catch wind of the FT's persuasions...after all, when asked which newspapers she read she did say "gosh, hmm.....well...all of them".
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I find some of the people in the McCain's campaign team incredibly silly especially in light of the article in hiring Obama supporters (because they're Afro-american ?) to do what ?
The above item, in concert with two other recent articles like :
*News of emails to 75,000 jews claiming voting for Obama is inviting a second holocaust, then hastily recanted;
*A State campaigner "pushing" claim of an assault of a McC worker by an alleged Obama supporter which turned out to be false;
is surely a sign of desperation amongst some campaign team leaders.
Surely, the acid test of a political party is making it relevant to it's diverse citizens. Otherwise as has been the case for the Republican campaign for this election, the focus has been on drumming up various "demons" to scare it's supporters into line.
It may have worked for Bush 4 years ago, but that was then, whilst society has moved on.
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*10 "So, all these 'swing' voters will switch from a Socialst to a Conservative ticket just 'like that'? Has no-one got any principles any more?"
I prefer the adjective 'thinking' to 'swing'.
Whilst agreeing that principles should play a part in determining your choice of candidate, I also believe that basing a choice on what's right for a country - even if it means going against those basic principles- is more important.
Take the 1983 General Election in the UK. Many of those who voted for Thatcher did not share her principles but given the alternative that they faced at the time, they voted for what they preceived better for the country. Even someone from my background was left wondering 'Is the Labour Party serious? Is this the best it can offer us?'
In the U.S. at the moment, voters face a similar choice and I just wish that more of them would take a stand similar to that taken by many 'natural' Labour voters in '83. Obama represents change, hope and progression, whereas McCain - dress it up as he might - is, in Joe Biden's words, 'more of the same'.
8 years of Republican mismanagement has virtually bankrupt America and made the world a far more dangerous place.
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Glowing praise indeed from FT:
"Obama, suberb campaign leadership; steady competence; commands respect; as fine a political orator as the country has heard in decades [wow]; far-sighted; moderation in the method; calm and methodical; cautious and deliberate..."
The only "downright bad" reserved for "trade-thumping", hardly a drawback with the electorate these days.
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Many voters (from across the globe) strongly associate with a particular party. Far better when there are only 2 mainstream parties, it gives the neat "them" and "us" model. With this model we marginalize and demonize the "other".
To break free from the yoke of party affiliation is a real struggle for many, and they will rationlize their choices with the most bizarre of reasons. (This has been observed many times on this blog)
8 years of incompetant governance and there are still individuals who believe in the policies of the present incumbent of the White House.
Rare are the Republican voters who can accurately see the damage that has been wrought on the US over the past 8 years.
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"Ah, that's the election done then. The FT has spoken! I mean it's not exactly a well read paper; outside of the bankers in the city your average man in the street (either side of the pond) hardly buys it for the crossword." - andfreedom@5
How charmingly naive. The FT is the paper of Britain's politico-economic elite. As such, it is one of the few UK publications that could have an effect on the US elections - because members of the American elite will take note of its pronouncements. (While the American elite is of course much more powerful than the British, it is important to the American elite to maintain British elite confidence in American leadership - although they could scarcely care less what the British "man-in-the-street" thinks.)
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#14... Incorrect! Sarah Palin didn't say she reads all newspapers. She said she read all papers that are "put in front of her". It is not yet known whether the FT has ever been put in front of her.
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16 ~ Merthyr
And in 1997, people who had voted Tory for years, decided that it was time for a change.
If you remember, this was despite "demon eyes" ads and lots of scare stories about tax and spend (yeah, scare stories about tax and spend, would you believe).
For the next few years it was hard to find anyone who would admit to having been a Tory.
Now opinion is beginning to slide the other way - but the '97 experience, which re-invigorated the country, proved that it is sometimes kinder to let a tired old ruling party off the hook for a bit so that it can have a rest and regain its purpose and momentum.
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I am not surprised at the FT's stance.
Despite its readership, it is run by the usual left-leaning, run-of-the-mill, journalists that the UK produces, and inevitably its views are left-leaning. It supported Blair in 1997 and has subsequently offered only muted criticism of NuLabour, its stealth taxes, and "smoke and mirror" trick economic policies. Many financial/ business people have to read the paper for company news - but don't believe its political and economic analysis is that great. At its worst moments, it is little more than a commie pinko rag. And, as for The Economist, it's much like the FT - only more mediocre and more boring...
So I don't think many people will be taking the FT's views that seriously - or those of The Economist.
As for Americans, I don't think the views of a left-leaning paper from socialist Europe will carry much weight...
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Which Obama did the FT endorse?
The Democratic party Obama or the "New Party" Obama?
therealbarackobama.wordpress.com/2008/10/23/loudon-documentary-evidence-obama-was-new-party-member/#comments
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Seems a lot of you are missing the point:-
Mr Webb knows that the FT will have no impact on the average US voter.
Do try to keep up, people. We are British after all. We do understand things like Irony, Satire etc...
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Sorry my first link didn't work:
http://www.therealbarackobama.wordpress.com/2008/10/23/loudon-documentary-evidence-obama-was-new-party-member/#comments
Look at the photos.
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"Is a way with verbiage "a priceless asset" as the FT claims, or a meaningless even sinister non-virtue as the McCain people claim? You do need to make a case convincingly, particularly abroad."
Why should making a case abroad bother McCain? He and Palin have made it quite clear that they don't like talking to other countries, "giving aid to countries who don't even like us very much" (McCain, second debate), and have told off Obama for wanting to engage in diplomatic relations with other countries (Palin, VP debate). If those two get in, they'd start WW3 in a matter of weeks.
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OMG ~ here we go again.
Exserviceman : you did those conspiracy theories of yours to death over the weekend. The only conclusion that most of us came to is that if Obama had participated in one fifth of the political movements and alternative religions that you would have us believe, then he would be superman incarnate.
He's not. He's the presidential nominee of the Democratic party and has the enthusiastic backing of the whole party behind him.
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"10. At 10:23am on 27 Oct 2008, theoldgoat wrote:
...
The real problem to me is that the electorate over here is just as bad. Right now, everyone seems to hate Brown. Possibly not as much as anyone has ever hated Thatcher, but you never know.
So, all these 'swing' voters will switch from a Socialst to a Conservative ticket just 'like that'? Has no-one got any principles any more?"
I expect the 25% of people who want a Socialist government (probably an overestimate) will continue to vote for Brown. The swing voters, who brought him (indirectly) to power, had first to be convinced that New Labour wasn't really Socialist any more.
So there's no need to mistake "not having the same principles as you" for "not having principles"...
Incidentally, the hatred some people feel for Brown is real and profound enough. I don't quite understand it myself.
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Did he stand as a "New party" candidate in Chicago?
Yes or No
Its not complicated
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#22, Browned-Off
From the name, I'm assuming you're based in the UK. As such, I'm surprised you think the FT is a 'left-leaning' newspaper.
Then again, anyone who still uses phrases such as "commie pinko" demonstrates
(a) a high degree of partisanship
(b) a deporably poor level of insults. You need to get some more neo-con venom in your posts
And as for your comment that The Economist is a similarly left-wing "rag".....laughing so hard straight after breakfast isn't recommended, so could you go easy on the jokes? I agree with you that it's boring, but LEFT-wing? Hardly.
Finally, given the level of socialism being practiced in the US right now (Fannie, Freddie), I'm not sure we raging European Trotskyites can offer you any lessons....Brother Bush is doing perfectly well as it is.
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It is so easy for a Charismatic and gifted orator to look good in front of the camera.
It seems that most people want to be comfortable with who they see on the television,who is going to be seen on their television screens every other day.A good orator can fit this idea that some people have that may give them security, one who appears to talk the talk,but can this person really walk the walk?
Does it matter that someone who wishes to lead is not a gifted orator in front of the Teleprompter?
Obama does not look so comfortable when he has to talk off the cuff.
It seems that he has to be really prepared to be able to respond in a way that he would like,such as knowing the questions in advance and ensuring a hand picked audience.
Why did the Obama campaign react so aggressively to those questions posed by the local reporter in Florida?
Those who try to avoid awkward questions always seem to have something to hide.
McCain has the experience,he has been tested,he can work with others across the aisle,he does have a history of co-sponsoring legislation,he does not buckle under extreme pressure,he has served his country in peace and war,when all seems lost he never gives up.
There are other Presidents that have shown as much courage and statesmenship.Washington,Lincoln and Roosevelt to name a few.When McCain wins on Nov 4 God willing,he will show the same qualities.
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Has anybody read Cnn blogs lately? Most Americans that support mclame sp can't write grammmatically or spell correctly. This seems to a sign of the level of intelligence of gop diehards.
Hate rallies encouraging people of low intelligence to violence reminds people who read history of Germany in the 30ties.
A gifted orator who speaks truthfully or a senile bumbler who tells lie after lie, and shows his ineptitude by choosing an idiot for a running mate -- Americans you choose.
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#29
You're right, it's not complicated.
He didn't.
At this point you'll doubtless produce "proof" from MadRightWingConspracy.com to back up your story, but sadly for you, no-one's buying from your store today.
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"Mind you I suppose they could point out that mercenary armies in European conflicts in days of yore used to be rather successful..."
You do of course mean "Private Military Contractors" right? The BBC has consistently avoided using the term Mercenary and has toed the same propaganda line as the rest of the media on this issue.
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The Financial Times backing for Obama is a nail to McCain's political coffin! The Economist's backing of Obama would further discomfort McCain and his supporters. The American voters respect these two British publications immensely. So the political fate of McCain and Sarah Palin should be crystal clear and they should realize the game is almost over! Eight days could still be a testing time. Let us hope nothing untoward happens and that the election results truly reflect the aspirations of the American voters. Obama has engineered a brilliant campaign despite the banana skins placed on his path.
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um...
let me see if I can get this one straight...
The Republicans have been in charge of the USA for 20 of the last 28 years?
And it's in a right old mess?
Hmm....
Must be "Time for a change".
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endorfin at 33
Suppose john Mccain stood ten years ago for a minor party to the right of the republicans and the republican party under the "fusion" concept still legal in 1996?
I would not be happy at all. Because Colin Powell is correct about the right edge of the Republican party: people to the right of that....would be not pretty.
If the "New Party" didn't exist, why did the supreme court rule on "fusion" ruling it not a constitutional right?
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#21
Indeed, eightypercent.
One thing that you can usually guarantee about the UK is that a party that has proven itself to be financially irresponsible can virtually count on being ditched. It should have happened in 1992 but the combination of Tory fear tactics and a monumentally misjudged 'convention' in Sheffield ended that.
In the US, I feel that the Democrats always seem to have that fear factor hurdle to get over. The Republicans seem to spend more time creating doubt and uncertainty than they do hope and expectation. They don't so much win by promoting their policies as they do casting extreme doubt on those of the Democrats, placing a huge emphasis on security.
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REAGAN!
I cannot understand why anyone, even a repug, upholds Reagan as an example of anything other than dictatorial self-focused 'leadership'
Ronald Reagan, possibly more than any other elected official, is responsible for the world AIDS crisis by refusing recognition or response when it was developing in the 1980's. His contribution to world suffering has produced a generation of orphans and decades of death and poverty loss of human potential
Add that to his domestic policy of union busting and financial policy that had souplines opened like we hadn't seen since the great depression(the last one) Why is he now a badge of honour for ANY candidate?
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Appalachia - Hee hee - that IS where you'll find the McCain Palin strongholds and not many copies of the FT. It'll be the Enquirer, that carried a cover page spread on "Obama is a Muslim", that sways Appalachia.
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"31. At 12:00pm on 27 Oct 2008, Drudge52 wrote:
It is so easy for a Charismatic and gifted orator to look good in front of the camera.
No arguement with the logic here.
Similarly, it is easy for a half-educated, egotistical, boorish, venal, political non-entity to make a fool of herself on camera.
"Obama does not look so comfortable when he has to talk off the cuff."
No, few people do
"It seems that he has to be really prepared to be able to respond in a way that he would like,such as knowing the questions in advance and ensuring a hand picked audience."
Yes and he takes pains to be so prepared.
So what is the point you are making?
"Does it matter that someone who wishes to lead is not a gifted orator in front of the Teleprompter?"
Well if he cannot speak effectively before a teleprompter, when can he speak effectively?
"McCain has the experience,he has been tested,he can work with others across the aisle,he does have a history of co-sponsoring legislation,he does not buckle under extreme pressure,he has served his country in peace and war,when all seems lost he never gives up."
According to McCain. Sadly this has all been said before.
He is also erratic, bad tempered and shows poor judgement.
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Indeed after years of W, the US needs an articulate guy for President. Trouble is both candidates have that quality. So, no, in 2008 that's not the way to select one candidate from another.
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"29. At 11:54am on 27 Oct 2008, exserviceman wrote:
Did he stand as a "New party" candidate in Chicago?
Yes or No
Its not complicated"
DO you seriously, actually think anybody cares?
Not in the slightest.
Its too late for that sort of tactic now.
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The reason why I buy the FT is because it is the most leftie paper in the UK. Sad times...
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re 31, Drudge52 wrote:
"McCain has the experience,he has been tested,he can work with others across the aisle,he does have a history of co-sponsoring legislation,he does not buckle under extreme pressure,he has served his country in peace and war,when all seems lost he never gives up."
He has experience of bumbling and not learning from mistakes. Tested and Failed. He co-sponsors pro-Bush legistalation 95% of the time. He buckled to the GOP to take in Palen the nutjob. Some maverick. He lost to George Bush the imbecile in the 2000 primaries. Then adopted the man who really defeated him, Karl Rove. He `served' his country with reckless and arrogant flying (crashing), bombing in a useless war, and stayed in the Hanoi Hilton hospital where NVA officers were treated for most of his POW experience. He has a highly ambiguous understanding of whether the military serves the country or, with his election, vice versa (he will only `get' Bin Laden if we vote for him?) . Anything he says about Obama is merely uneducated garbage i.e. `socialism'. Well how did he place in his academic class?
I have nothing against `him'! But no one in their right mind could say he is a stable character suitable to be president. And then there's Palen right on his heels...........
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22 BROWNED OFF wrote:
I am not surprised at the FT's stance.
Despite its readership, it is run by the usual left-leaning, run-of-the-mill, journalists that the UK produces, and inevitably its views are left-leaning. It supported Blair in 1997 and has subsequently offered only muted criticism of NuLabour, its stealth taxes, and "smoke and mirror" trick economic policies. Many financial/ business people have to read the paper for company news - but don't believe its political and economic analysis is that great. At its worst moments, it is little more than a commie pinko rag. And, as for The Economist, it's much like the FT - only more mediocre and more boring...
So I don't think many people will be taking the FT's views that seriously - or those of The Economist.
As for Americans, I don't think the views of a left-leaning paper from socialist Europe will carry much weight...
.........................................
How far from reality do you have to get before you are considered to be insane?
To describe the FT or the Economist as left wing is to suggest that Der Sturmer was a moderate liberal publication.
Commie-Pinko? Are those reds still under your bed, duck and cover!
Socialist Europe? You forgot to mention the New World Order. Is Angela Merkel socialist, is Sarkosy socialist?
Get a grip.
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#37
This is a bit tiresome.
You asked for a simple answer to a simple question. The question was "did Obama stand as a New Party candidate in Chicago"?
I answered you. Simply. If you weren't prepared to listen to the answer, why on earth did you ask the question?
I don't understand your follow-up question, but I get the point that in your mind, Obama is linked to a radical, evil, secret Illuminati-like sect which will take over the world when His Evilness is voted into powed by his acolytes. Who have ALL drunk the Kool-Aid, naturally.
As I say, no-one other than the more fanatical right-wing blogs give this sort of stuff any credence whatsoever.
Your call, but don't expect to be taken seriously if you continue to push the same half-baked conspiracy theories.
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Obama is viewed as better on the economy so the FT endorsement makes sense. Planting campaign workers is a sign of desperation. The McCain camp recently had the scandal of a campaign worker who claimed to be assaulted in Pittsburgh by an Obama supporter who saw her bumper sticker. It turned out to be a hoax and an exercise in race baiting.
Race baiting incident
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# Simon ~ you flatter our friend by calling it a "tactic"
I see that two of the members of this New Party (which turns out not to be a Party at all) are Gloria Steinem and Noam Chomsky. Both people with strong views as to how they can bring about betterment for their fellow human beings, but not exactly exiles from the mainstream of society.
Its interesting that among the blog links listed on Loudon's page are Hannity and our old friend Mista Kurtz. 'Nuff said.
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#36
the Republicans have been in charge of the USA for 20 of the last 28 years?
You are obviously falling prey to a delusion - how can the Republicans possibly have been in charge for all that time? The USA and the West in general are - as many posters on here point out - the victims of a shameless controlling left wing media and pan-government conspiracy which is to blame for all the worlds ills.
If the Republicans had ACTUALLY been in charge - all the chaos the US military and financial sector are visiting on the world recently would be their fault wouldn't it?
And it would never do to admit that, would it?
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Simon21
The point is someone has come across a physical copy of New Party's own publications. That is the claim.
The New Party was to the Left of the Democratic party [DSA, CoC members]. I can't push it any more than that. Is that fair?
If Obama was never a member of the New Party, then the physical copy must be a mock up or fake, with me so far?
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no.39 Absolutely agree.
For those who think that Reagan was anything other than a disgrace, it was his government that sold arms to Iran and then used that money to fund terrorist killers in Nicaragua.
Why are few ex pows supporting McCain? see this:- www.bobmillerwrites.com/johnmccain.htm
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Senator Obama is the greatest orator in American politics since John F. Kennedy. He has Kennedy's eloquence for delivering lines and Rev. King's style for elevating key points in a speech. Ronald Reagan had an imposing persona which made you listen to what he had to say. Reagan was smooth but no Kennedy. Bill Clinton, as well, can talk-up a storm but is not in the same league as Sen. Obama. Obama's weakness, however, is an inability to link a chain of thoughts in an unscripted interview. He tends to stammer as he searches for words while Kennedy, Reagan and President Bush excel(led) at that level.
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endorfin 47
If I understand you correctly you are saying that the photos/scans are fakes?
If they were I would agree with you. But they look ok to me.
Can you see anything obviously wrong with them?
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In the midst of all these foreign endorsements, which are more detrimental or meaningless than helpful to our candidates, Sarah Palin continues to attract huge crowds wherever she goes...
As for President Reagan, while I disagree with his domestic and foreign policies I have to agree that he inspired many Americans and was, indeed, a very charismatic and compassionate person.
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#22 must be a made-up person. No-one actually says things like "commie pinko rag".
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Endorfin ~
The next "shock, horror, scandal" will be a 2001 radio interview with a professorly Barack Obama, in which he talks about the redistribution of wealth. Drudge has got it as his lead now and it'll make its way to the in-boxes of the crazy gang soon.
BTW : the existence of any sort of wealth to be redistributed is more or loss old hat now. There ain't none to be distributed, let alone redistributed.
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22. BROWNED_OFF
You put so elequently the very point I wanted to make! I'm so pleased. Thank you!
(Only I had intended to be ironic.)
But, Justin, I'am equally delighted that (despite the BBC's obvious hatchet-job on the Appalachias in Simon Schama's TV series -- typical sneering, leftie, anti-American superior Brt attitude) that the area has attained such a level of economic growth, financial security and education that the FT is read in the diners there.
At least, when they all vote for Palin, we will be able to respect that as an educated and thoughtful decision reached after careful consideration of the merits of the two campaigns.
Which is more than you can say of some of the worn-out repetitious posts popping up here yet again.
(I refer you also to my Honourable Friend's reply in Post 24. Sigh.)
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"51. At 12:08pm on 27 Oct 2008, exserviceman wrote:
Simon21
The point is someone has come across a physical copy of New Party's own publications. That is the claim.
The New Party was to the Left of the Democratic party [DSA, CoC members]. I can't push it any more than that. Is that fair? "
So what? Who cares?
"If Obama was never a member of the New Party, then the physical copy must be a mock up or fake, with me so far?"
Could be either way it doesn't matter.
Let me try to make it clear. The US electorate is worried if it is going to have a job by this time next year, whether they are going to be evicted, whether they are going to lose their savings, deposits.
They are not interested in allegations of who attended or joined what party, provided it was legal - re Palin's firlting with an Alaskan independence party.
Anything else is largely beside the point. This is why the republican campaign has failed
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What gets forgotten, of course, is that America is not just electing a president, but the policy makers who shape things.
Most policies come out from the small White House clique, currently headed by Cheney, who surround the president.
No president has enough ideas to give detailed shape to policy. He simply sets the general course and lets others draft the bills.
The question right now is this. Who is behind Obama? Which companies and which key individuals. These are the group who will ultimately shape an Obama presidency.
Bush was all hawks and oil and we saw the consequences of that. So it really matters. Perhaps you could do a piece on that angle, Justin. Great blog btw.
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no.55
For a person to be truly compassionate, they should show compassion for all, not just those around them. By this standard Reagan fails miserably.
Many other tyrants have shown compassion for their own, you can fill in their names.
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Obama is running the best marketing plan since Jessica Simpson. And it is the best that Nigeria's and Kenya's money can buy. BBC was the first to report about foreigners trying to fund Obama's campaign. Turns out the BBC just hit the tip of the iceberg. Here's how it works. Someone named "weloveyou" or "deeman" sends Obama's campaign $250. Unable to verify that it came from a U.S. citizen (because we do not have a state with a short form of IZ), they send it back. But they don't send it back too quickly. They keep it for a time, invest it, take the interest and maybe then send it back. It's a little murky because the Obama camp is not real transparent with their funding, the contributors' names or their rate of return. And I am pretty sure the world is hip by now to the fraud streaming out of Nigeria, Kenya, etc. Within the next four years, the world will read or watch the Kenya-gate of this campaign. The Obama camp's creative accounting will make Enron/MCI look like a simple error of carrying the one in long division. But America loves a good marketing plan! The up side, having no experience or real support in Congress, Obama won't be "sharing the wealth" with anyone too soon.
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eightypercent at 57
I actually agreed with Obama. The state of some communities in the USA could do with some state action to help them. That needs more taxes at some stage.
The problem for Obama is that that position is to the left of the position he has taken publicly.. hence the surprise from some quarters.
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27. eightypercent
As you say, here we go again. Same people, same stuff. I'm staying out of it this time.
It seems whatever rational argument, whatever logic, whatever source or document one can counter these fantasies with, the only effect is that they are robo-repeated.
And then they all cry: "Ah but you can't answer, can you!" triumphantly, even though they have been countered innumerable times over the last few weeks.
Let's just leave them to it. Let them swap their fairy-tales among themselves. They don't take notice of rational beings anyway, that's obvious.
I'd much rather explore the Blair-squirrel emasculation scandal we uncovered yesterday.
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"63. At 12:38pm on 27 Oct 2008, exserviceman wrote:
eightypercent at 57
I actually agreed with Obama. The state of some communities in the USA could do with some state action to help them. That needs more taxes at some stage.
The problem for Obama is that that position is to the left of the position he has taken publicly.. hence the surprise from some quarters."
Maybe his position has altered - it doesn't matter.
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Simon 21 at 59
The reason I think its relevant is that on defense he seems to have made totally different pitches to people. One public, one much more radical to "peace" groups.
Thats what bothers me. This Guy will be followed round in 7 days by a guy with a suit case and the nuclear launch codes.
Bidden will be too. POTUS and the VP are never on the same foreign trip together for that reason.
Do you at least understand why I might be concerned that he has stood for a "left of the Democratic party" party ?
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Well, I'm sure it's interesting which candidate the FT backs, but perhaps it's even more interesting which candidate the people who make the machines that count the votes back. See, for example the article in the New York Times at http://tinyurl.com/65sguo
I honestly don't know what to make of this. Is this just a crazy conspiracy theory or should we be genuinely worried about how free and fair the US elections are going to be?
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Justin
Has the BBC ever managed to get an interview any of the Presidential or Vice-Presidential candidates in this election. How about in previous elections?
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55. DominickVila wrote:
"In the midst of all these foreign endorsements, which are more detrimental or meaningless than helpful to our candidates, Sarah Palin continues to attract huge crowds wherever she goes...
As for President Reagan, while I disagree with his domestic and foreign policies I have to agree that he inspired many Americans and was, indeed, a very charismatic and compassionate person."
I'd like to explain one or two things. When The Economist or the FT writes an editorial supporting one candidate for office over another anywhere in the world, they are saying that they have come to the conclusion that 'X' (be it Royale or Sarkozy) is the better, they mean from the standpoint of the world economic and political situation.
They don't expect the verdict to be headline news in the country concerned. So it is neither 'detrimental' (unless one party decides to use it against the other) nor entirely 'meaningless', becaause both papers are respected in the political arena.
As to Sarah Palin (or Obama, for that matter) "attracting huge crowds" that is also no measure. So do baby pandas at zoos. As some reporters have commented, there is a strong element of nothing more than curiosity, of wanting to say "I was there". TV coverage can be extremely misleading as regards the enthusiasm. since the angle of view of the camera is generally packed by the rally organisers with the most vociferous placard-waving supporters.
Whether Reagan was hiimself 'caring and compassionate' is as fundamentally irrelevant as whether Obama is the best orator in American politics in years, which I feel myself is not saying much.
If you want compassion in an elected politician, it should be to the policies you look, not the person.
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no.67 You should be worried, see this:-
http://meetthebloggers.org/show_101708.php
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"66. At 12:49pm on 27 Oct 2008, exserviceman wrote:
Simon 21 at 59
The reason I think its relevant is that on defense he seems to have made totally different pitches to people. One public, one much more radical to "peace" groups.
Thats what bothers me. This Guy will be followed round in 7 days by a guy with a suit case and the nuclear launch codes.
Bidden will be too. POTUS and the VP are never on the same foreign trip together for that reason.
Do you at least understand why I might be concerned that he has stood for a "left of the Democratic party" party ? "
No not really. I don't think peace is a bad thing and I don't believe belligerence and aggression make for peace.
Peace is not a bad word in my eyes at least.
I think the central problem is believing that the US can win unwinnable wars. It can't and that is a good reason not to get involved in them.
McCain talks about victory as if he was commanding at Trafalgar and throws out threars regardless. Obamam makes a lot more sense.
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Brit,
You forgot to include that he's a self-confessed Jew!Salaam/Shalom
ed
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eightypercent wrote:
Endorfin ~
The next "shock, horror, scandal" will be a 2001 radio interview with a professorly Barack Obama, in which he talks about the redistribution of wealth. Drudge has got it as his lead now and it'll make its way to the in-boxes of the crazy gang soon.
No need to bring up a 2001 interview with the Chicago radio station WBEZ because Obama put his foot in his mouth with the Joe the Plumber interview...."We need to spread the wealth around". His quote is already out there,the 2001 interview just shows that his views are unchanged from early on in his quest for power.
Barack Obama for all time will be remembered for this one quote if not for anything else whether one likes it or not.
There are many people who have made new lives in the United states from the old USSR and Soviet block, who are really dismayed by those comments by Obama because they have first hand experience of a socialistic society, which they left because they wanted to be rewarded by the fruits of their own labor.They wanted less government interference in their lives.They wanted to be in control of their own destiny.
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malcomd3111 (#18):
Do you advocate ending our two party system?
The two party system has perpetuated a problem that every intelligent voter has faced:
The choice the lesser of two evils.
How many people really vote for a Democrat or a Republican simply because they like the candidate?
Political advertising appeals to the electorate to vote against the other candidate because of a perceived fault or faults, and not for any positive message.
For those few voters who want to believe they are voting for a candidate because they like that candidate, negative ads are counterproductive, because it's harder for them to like a candidate who stoops to low blows and obvious lies.
The two party system can only be stopped by two things:
A strong third party made up of former members of either party, or a political movement in where candidates themselves shun all parties, I’d prefer to see more of that, maybe then people will have to think more when they vote instead of always checking for an ‘R’ or a ‘D’ next to the candidates names.
Third party candidates typically do not do well because they are perceived as wackos for the company they keep.
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64 british-ish
"I'd much rather explore the Blair-squirrel emasculation scandal we uncovered yesterday."
But that was a failed NuLab policy.
It needs a Conservative to prevent the American squirrel invaders from breeding
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FinMember (#32):
How easy for you dismiss those who oppose your point of view as unintelligent.
The impressions you see on SNL are NOT the real candidates.
Haven't you learned from misunderestimating Dubya?
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#66
If he'd stood for election for this group, you may or may not have grounds for concern.
But he didn't.
Show me the records of his standing for any election for this organisation and I might listen. By that I don't mean Rush Limbaugh's assertions or some Photoshopped hoax.
Genuine Chicago public records, please.
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Brit (64),
Did you see the squirrel in Schama's piece (as he walked through a park at Oberlin)? He did seem to do a fair bit of strolling to camera, didn't he...Peace and ambulation
ed
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Ref 69
I lived overseas for over 30 years and I do take the opinion of foreign governments, institutions, and people very seriously. Unfortunately, that is not the case with a large segment of the population in the USA which not only disregards foreign opinion, but more often than not considers it flawed and regards it as interferrence in our internal affairs. The fact that we interfere in the internal affairs of other nations, both diplomatically and physically, is irrelevant to them. In that context, foreign endorsements often becomes a liability rather than an asset to the recipient.
I am a Democrat and I voted early for Obama because I am convinced that his domestic and foreign proposals are more likely to provide positive results than those of McCain whose policies are simply a continuance of those promoted by the Bush Administration. I admit, however, that I am also impressed by Obama's charisma and the confidence and hope that exude from his persona. In my opinion, attributes such as education, judgment, temperment, and self-confidence are essential in choosing a leader as their actual role in governing is often more focused on providing a vision and making decisions than drafting policy proposals.
Last, but not least, Palin represents an unprecedented political phenomena that should not be ignored or minimized. The large crowds that attend her rallies are not doing it because they like the glasses she wears, they do it because they identify with her convictions, her strengths and her weaknesses.
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#45---I believe McCain graduated 4th from the BOTTOM of his class
#52---Yes-Iran/Contra scandal, that doesn't get mentioned either. His legacy has been sanitised beyond all recognition since his death
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I ask again our southern neighbours: why woould you subscribe to the past-its-due-date EU social-dem/socialist model that Mr Obama will be implementing?
That model, in terms of economics, translates hystorically into: stagnant economy with negligable rate of GDP growth, low productivity, protectionism; high unemployment and heavily unionised and regulated labour markets; very high budget deficits as % of GDP because of unchecked "social justice" programs spending, high personal and corporate taxation that destroys any incentive for higher individual productivity; huge bureaucracies and suffocating business regulation; low business and household investment, etc.
In socio-political terms the model provides the ruling leftist elites with a vast voter segment of welfate dependents that perpetuate the elite's stay in office. Mr Chavez and EU provide the perfect templates of this model.
It's basically a top-bottom project.
There's nothing revolutionary in it, it's failed in EU, in the former commie block, it's failing in China.
Re FT's endorsement: I'd rather look at the stock and financial markets, which, after absorbing the liquidity/credit crises, are currently factoring in Mr Obama's economic, fiscal, etc. policies. No wonder the markets respond in a markedly negative way: Mr Obama's presidency means a prolonged recession, and a long-term weakening of the US economy.
This is VERY worrying from Canada's perspective, as app. 80% of our GDP is exported to US. The EU/Asian markets' reaction indicates clearly hard times ahead for China, India, EU, and a host of emerging markets as well.
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Accidents attract lookie-loos on the free-way, does that mean drivers advocate traffic accidents?
How many people, who turned out to listen to a candidate, bothered getting registered to vote?
How many of you, who are not otherwise disqualified, enjoy the privileges of living in a free country without performing the duties of citizenship?
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70. Jackturk
Your link is five years old. No doubt the machines are now more sophisticated. (Deadpan.)
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"73 . At 1:11pm on 27 Oct 2008, Drudge52 wrote:
:
"There are many people who have made new lives in the United states from the old USSR and Soviet block, who are really dismayed by those comments by Obama because they have first hand experience of a socialistic society, which they left because they wanted to be rewarded by the fruits of their own labor.They wanted less government interference in their lives.They wanted to be in control of their own destiny."
Yes but there are many more that seem to agree with him aren't there?
That's your problem. His quote is very popular.
But do explain why you believe it is better to have wealth concentrated in a few privileged hands rather than spread around.
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Some wise advice from an English Tory.
"The Republicans are about to go through a period of self absorption and will think it is all that matters. They will only recover when they start to understand that no one is watching and that no one, except them, cares."
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Old Nat (75),
I'm with Murdo on this!
Peace and peanuts
Obama
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Fickle Brit ~
After declaring for squirrels you've now moved to the baby panda party.
We know all about your type on this blog.
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#20
I saw the interview with Katie Couric and she definitely responded to the question "which papers do you read?" with the answer "all of them". Sub text "Non of them".
I would say that the essence of your response however is probably right in that she reads papers that are put in front of her or rather has someone help her with the big words.
I can just see the FT being slipped between the pages of her issues of "Moose hunting today", "Witch" magasine or "Crazy, Whacko, Christian Fundamentalist News".
Still I would vote for her as she dresses so nicely.
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78. Ed Iglehart wrote:
"Did you see the squirrel in Schama's piece (as he walked through a park at Oberlin)? He did seem to do a fair bit of strolling to camera, didn't he..."
Ah, a voice of sanity at last from one of my friends in the Squirrel Party.
Yes I caught a glimpse. But it was the wrong political complexion I thought. (Er, using a European colour-chart, that is, not American.) Yes. I find the 'strolling to camera' the Beeb goes in for such a lot these days very tiresome, too. You get some nice landscape shots, though.
I think I'll spend an hour or two in Hyde Park with our party members today. They may be the wrong political colour, but at least they're naturalised British now, so they won't be talking the nonsense that's cropping up here again today . . . I hoipe.
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There is nothing remotely surprising about the FT endorsing Obama. it is a left wing newspaper which majors on business matters. Ok, it's only centre left, nothing like as far left as the BBC, but it's slap bang in the middle of the EU progressive "consensus." If it could bring itself to endorse Kerry last time without obvious embarrassment, why wouldn't it endorse Obama this time ?
Likewise the news that the Anchorage Daily News is endorsing Obama, which the BBC is carrying on its front page is about as much of a shocker as the New York Times endorsing Obama. It's a pro Democratic newspaper, and it always endorses the Democrat. I don't know if it endorsed Dukakis but it's certainly endorsed Clinton twice, Gore, Kerry and now Obama. The vast majority of local newspapers in the US, even in Republican states, are run by Democrat supporters - the only place in Republican states where there's a majority of Dems.
Why do I have to tell you this obvious stuff ? Why doesn't Justin tell you, who's actually paid to tell you all this ? Why indeed.
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# 76
How on earth can you misunderestimate Dubya ?
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83. My link is actually one week old but five years late, mabe that's what you meant, others can judge:-
http://meetthebloggers.org/show_101708.php
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Old Nat and Ed :
Beware, those Tories will do anything to get re-elected.
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i believe issues like this as stated in this article will be probably the deciding factor in a close election.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/26/voter.suppression/index.html?eref=rss_politics
and seeing that its been done by only one party, its pretty obvious who will benefit.
this is very disappointing.
i hope Justin reveals more about this elephant inthe room on this blog. No journalists seem to have the guts to talk about this it seems.
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#88
rockSimon1
I wouldn't vote for SP, nor, frankly, do I want to hear her political views.
But I have to say that the $150k was money well spent. What with her and Mrs Sarkozy, the political scene is definitely hotting up!
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39. At 11:36am on 27 Oct 2008, greyCallie
F.Y.I. many don't Reagan in high regards such as yourself, and your welcome to your opinion. I myself was not so impressed either till I read all his speeches, read many an article reporting of his tenure, and read parts of bio, some of his work is amazing, and I now like his style, he made a difference in 'real time' History as few have.
Justin is pointing to the style these men brought to the fore front here. As speakers go, Obama is the closest to Reagans acting ability, his deliverence is spectacular. That said, what they say are on either end of the spectrum in meaning for some issues, but the difference is not in thier love of America, but of thier judgement on where to lead it.
In these last days prior to the election, Obama is speaking to the moderate and right, saying what they want to hear when it is in actual contrast of his history in state and federal senate, contrary to his associations and what we KNOW to be Barack Obama.
We will see the real Obama I'm afraid after the 'vote' is done, more than likely to the chagrin of many Americans that voted for him. His promises of many handouts, tax cuts and 'Changed Medical System', just like many democrats before him, will end hollow in the center, cost the poor that voted on mass and benifit the party rich.
Sad as this may sound, many are not voting for Obama, but against the Bush/McCain?Republican/white party. Our only real hope is that we do not turn over the Congress with the White House to a single party.
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There is a new wind blowing in America . Even in Lancaster and Zanesville although many would be suprised , folks can access the internet and get thier daily dose of news from around the world .
It does not take a rocket scientist in Southeasten Ohio to know that the last eight years have been more of the same.
I am from Lancaster and I do know that endoresements by world press do have a effect .
We care more than some would think what the world thinks .
Maybe thats why Ohio will swing for Obama next week.
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87. eightypercent wrote:
Fickle Brit ~
After declaring for squirrels you've now moved to the baby panda party.
We know all about your type on this blog.
Well, they get bigger crowds, don't they? The following statement has been emailed to 75,000 squirrels:
"I feel that the Panda Party has moved closer to my wallet, I mean principles and will advance my future career, I mean, is more appropriate to my current range of interests.
My move will, I believe, give me greater flexibility to serve the electorate by bamboo(zling) them instead of expending my talents counting nuts.
I shall always, however, retain my respect and admiration for the squirrels, but regrettably it is time to move on."
[This email is repudiated by the Squirrel Party. It was prepared by a temporary consultant charged with energising the panda vote and was posted in error.
He has since been fed to the alligators in another enclosure. "I will not drag anyone else into the political swamp," he said when asked who had authorised its release.]
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It seems the Republican Party is in a mess and, being a Brit, I see analogies with the Conservative Party. Historically both parties come across as pragmatic organisations (from a loose ideological background) and have been relatively successful in this regard (especially the Tories). However, during the last thirty years or so, both parties have embraced ideology as opposed to pragmatism, for their success.
Students of history will know that prevailing ideologies only last for a relatively short time. Once a political party has become ideological it is very hard for it to convert back into pragmatism. The politicians that brought about success for the party will now bring failure. Public opinion always changes, but ideology and the politicians who followed it do not. History has its own sense of irony!
I guess that in four years time, if the GOP loses this one, they will be more 'neo-con' and Christian fundamentalist and will lose by a bigger margin a la the British Labour Party in 1983. The Republicans may be out of power for some time.
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Simon 21 at 71
Obama Video to caucus folks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRGru2CPC4E&feature=related
He talks about "negotiating with Russia to take our ICBM's off hair trigger alert"
I think anyone who makes an agreement like that with a man like Vladimir Putin is..
unwise because it CANNOT be verified.
To even suggest such a thing put me into a cold sweat when I first heard him say it. What if the other side has a deception plan?
That puts the entire existance of the USA at risk.
"Hair trigger" what the hell is he talking about?
US ICBM's are allready on safety - the code system means the warheads cannot be armed without the go ahead of the National Command Aurthority [President and VP]
There is something very wrong about Obama's Idea.
Large Cuts to the missile defense program will kill it - Obama knows that. Missile defense will only work against a few warheads, i.e. Noth Korea and Iran, the idea that could ever guarantee anything is odd.
Suppose North Korea did make an attack with 3 warheads, I would rather have a 50% chance to have them all shot down than 0%.
This "guarantee" thing is a lawyer's position, covering something else.
As for the reast of it, it will mean a weaker conventional military force, dangerously so IMHO because once cut weapons programs are very very expensive in lead time and money to restart. Its too late once a crisis occurs.
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dceilar ~
Limbaugh has identified a new class of traitor to the GOP - the "pseudointellectual conservative media type"
This category covers all people with GOP connections from Colin Powell downwards who have declared for Obama.
At least we now know (if Limbaugh remains their cheerleader) that when the GOP tries to recover "pseudointellectual conservative media types" need not apply.
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Socrates had this nailed two and a half millennia ago: there is a difference between sophistry and truth.
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Going to the original topic of the thread I was wondering how Reagan would regard the current Republican campaign? I'm no fan of his politics but he clearly understood that elections aren't won by simply appealing to the party base, you needed to draw in centrist voters as well, the oft mentioned 'Reagan Democrats'.
The Republican party seems to have forgotten that simple truth and where Reagan had the christian conservatives eating out of his hand the current incarnation seems to have their hands locked around McCains throat.
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80%,
You do realise you're referring to an endangered species in Scotland (supporting another endangered species)...Peace and independence
ed
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If the FT wants to endorse a candidate for an American Election, why are they not Americans? We don't try to elect your officials and don't allow your (outside) influence in our elections, especially the money (though there have been strong allegations of loopholes that Obama's campaign has overlooked; $200 or less contributions as one example). We believe in our independance. Contrary to the world view (and some of the more liberal people in our own country), we do not try to dictate how other countries run their own show, as long as it is not a direct threat to us or our friends. Iraq was led by an unstable leader in a vital place in the world (otherwise, how long could Kuwait have lasted without US presence?), and Afganistan was protecting Al Quiada who attacked us. If someone asks for help, we try. We also ask for outsiders not to step into our election system. Thank you and let us decide who we want.
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92. Jackturk
My apologies. Don't ask me how, but when I clicked on your link the first time, it took me to an NYT article about dodgy voting machines from October 2003 . . .
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#98 british-ish
EVERYONE knows that you still cling to your Squirrel party roots and that your APPARENT conversion to PANDAISM is a blind.
You are in TWO PARTIES at once, and since PANDAS come from CHINA which is a COMMUNIST state, you are clearly intent on COLONISING England with Pandas to ally them with the Scottish RED squirrels to wipe out the GOD-FEARING AMERICAN grey squirrels.
YOU CANNOT DENY that Pandas are Black and white (mix them and you get GREY) or that ELEPHANTS are also GREY.
MY LOGIC IS IRREFUTABLE!
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# British
Appreciation for the explanation of the internal troubles of the squirrel party.
(Alligator party announcement : We support the ideals of the squirrel party because we see real red meat coming out of it)
I'm most impressed that it's still flowing so well after your mega defending of the ramparts yesterday.
The dog days of this election seem to be getting to all of us. Andrew Sullivan has exhausted himself in his tantrums over Palin and is putting up a video of the cutest little beagle you ever could see.
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Doug, Welcome back! ()
Have you tried substituting "republicans" for "democrats" in the above? It is actually more historically accurate in reflecting ill-judged voting against one's own true interests....Peace and illumination
ed
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Good breakdown of the electoral map at present. Obama campaign strategy seems a sound one:
"The contours of these final days suggest a culmination of a strategy that Mr. Obama’s advisers put in place at the beginning: to use his huge fund-raising edge to try to put as many states in play as possible and overwhelm Mr. McCain in the final days of the race."
End of Battle Centers on Turf Bush Carried
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101. eightypercent wrote:
"dceilar ~
Limbaugh has identified a new class of traitor to the GOP - the "pseudointellectual conservative media type"
This category covers all people with GOP connections from Colin Powell downwards who have declared for Obama.
At least we now know (if Limbaugh remains their cheerleader) that when the GOP tries to recover "pseudointellectual conservative media types" need not apply."
Amazingly, Limbaugh seems to be on the right track. After all, the Republicans have been sated with 'pseudointellectuals' like the Neocons for years, so they could do with a few 'real' intelectuals.
(If that's what he meant.)
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#105 TMacPen
Why are you posting this on a UK blog, paid for by UK licence-holders?
You are here as a visitor, and on this side of the pond, visitors are expected to understand that their hosts have opinions.
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#106: Perhaps you clicked on my link, which was to a 5 year old article.
What I really don't know is whether the issues raised in that article are still relevant. If they are, it's pretty scary.
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107. At 2:11pm on 27 Oct 2008, oldnat wrote:
"#98 british-ish
EVERYONE knows that you still cling to your Squirrel party roots and that your APPARENT conversion to PANDAISM is a blind.
You are in TWO PARTIES at once, and since PANDAS come from CHINA which is a COMMUNIST state, you are clearly intent on COLONISING England with Pandas to ally them with the Scottish RED squirrels to wipe out the GOD-FEARING AMERICAN grey squirrels.
YOU CANNOT DENY that Pandas are Black and white (mix them and you get GREY) or that ELEPHANTS are also GREY.
MY LOGIC IS IRREFUTABLE!"
These are the kind of typical slurs by association I have come to expect in this blog, so I shall get on my high zebra and contemptuously decline to answer these scurrilous allegations.
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#50,FauxGeordie
"The USA and the West in general are - as many posters on here point out - the victims of a shameless controlling left wing media and pan-government conspiracy which is to blame for all the worlds ills."
For years now I was on a quest to find proof that there are at least two parallel earths co-existing in this universe.
Your post is not only evidence for that, but also proofs that people on both worlds can post in the same blog. Many thanks!
Ange.
PS If there's a third earth, I'm certain that squirrels will attract huge crowds on that one. So, SP, rejoice!
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108. (eightypercent)
LOL
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#90
Couldn't agree with you more!
The media in Europe is predominantly left-wing, which is very boring. It stifles debate by suppressing or downplaying stories that don't fit with its political stance or dulls the critical faculties with a steady drip, drip, drip of left-wing drivel and political correctness. Much like the BBC, in fact!
An example of this is the media coverage of Obama's earlier life. The left-wing media don't want to go near it. Every potentially negative story is immediately dismissed as a smear - and all debate quashed.
But how can Obama go to a black liberation church for 20 years without being influenced by its theology / Marxism? And what of the other Marxists / Anarchists / socialists he has associated with?
What does Obama really think when he isn't reading from a teleprompter? If democracy is to function as is should, we need to know the answer to this question!
In the meantime, it is probably safer to assume that there is no smoke without fire!!
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# 111 Brit
I don't honestly think that it is as deep as that - I think it is the new blanket cover word for everybody who disagrees with him.
("Squirrel Party is cover for pseudointellectual conservative media types" - said Limbaugh, who added "there's a lot of nuts in that party")
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A sad reflection on how polotics works.
The very nature of the popular vote means that those who are best suited to running a country are seldom ever put forward or elected because they don't always have the charisma or snappy delivery.
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Speaking of Reagan
Peace and [Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]
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#101 eightypercent
Yes 80% you highlight a worrying trend for the GOP. However, I feel this could be worrying for American politics. Regardless of our opinions of the GOP they will be so weak they will not offer much political accountability for the political process. I think the Democrats will find it hard to govern successfully if the opposition is too weak. On the other hand though a liberal Democrat hegemony may be what the US needs.
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Ed, funny you should mention the endangered scottish tories. I was thinking recently, thanks to the name of a particular poster, about my own feelings for Maggie. Whilst I agree that many of her policies were absolutely necessary (that is, agree with most of the policies, I'm sure I'm not agreeing with you!), I could not stand her. Her 'no society' comment was ridiculous, and she once suggested that she saw herself as a mother looking after her children (all of us).
This attitude obviously did for her in the end, but not until she had destroyed the scottish tories. She seemed to see scotland as some sort of testing ground, the poll tax being the worst example. I blame her for the inflammation of scottish nationalism, which I do not see a a good thing. It's just another excuse for more bureaucracy and more taxation to pay for it.
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#90
In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king.
"The FT is a left of centre newspaper" oh please! Do me a favour.
The only way I can see you coming to that conclusion is if, you sir, are somewhere to the right of Gengis Khan.
Left wing when I was at school signified a wish to see at the very least a mixed economy that takes away the excesses of the free market through the process of state involvement.
The FT is a paper thats very raison d'etre is the reporting on the institutions of the capitalist system. Its a bit like accusing the Pope of being an Athiest.
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I doubt if many people in Appalachia read Financial Times or Economist, and most Americans don't care what Europeans think, anyway. It may have some influence with Wall Street types, however. However, at this late date, I see it as more a matter of joining the bandwagon rather than helping it get going.
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#76
"Misunderestimate??????"
You just proved FinMembers point.
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WORLD NEWS
Worldwide Economic Slump Deepens
Even Afghan opium growers cutting back.
India Launches Probe to Moon
Will provide lunar tech support.
ELECTION '08
McCain Confident Entering Final Stretch
Counting on quick economic turnaround, swift resolution to both wars, lightning-fast upgrade of America's image overseas and sudden reversal of public's opinion of the Bush Administration.
Meanwhile,....
Peace and Irony
ed
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Speaking of Reagan
Peace and [Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]
ed
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eightypercent
"I'm most impressed that it's still flowing so well after your mega defending of the ramparts yesterday."
Yes, still bright-eyed, bushy-tailed and gipper. I mean chipper.
It's getting to me at last . . .Look, must go off and get on with a bit of subversion. Er, work.
Can't waste too much time on these silly a-corny tales.
We Pandas never stop fighting! We may be behind in the polls, but just you wait until they start bombing the oak trees!
(Just a sec, I think the autocue's gone wrong again.)
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I read the Economist occasionally, and find it enjoyable and informative. I didn't realise that I liked commie rags so much.
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#122 seanspa
"It's just another excuse for more bureaucracy and more taxation to pay for it."
We'll all save a lot of money by removing a layer of Government. I suggest the UK to go.
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#123
Have you ever read the FT?
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eightypercent
"I'm most impressed that it's still flowing so well after your mega defending of the ramparts yesterday."
Yes, still bright-eyed, bushy-tailed and gipper. I mean chipper.
It's getting to me at last . . .Look, must go off and get on with a bit of subversion. Er, work.
Can't waste too much time on these silly a-corny tales.
We Pandas never stop fighting! We may be behind in the polls, but just you wait until they start bombing the oak trees!
(Just a sec, I think the autocue's gone wrong again.)
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Sean's Pa,
Two points:1. I thought at the time that the poll tax may have been consciously intended to stimulate the SNP and thus weaken Labour. If so, it sort of half-worked.
2. I do see independence and/or localism as a very good thing, and find it hard to see how this leads to an increase in bureaucracy/taxation rather than the reverse. So we will have to agree to differ on that.
Peace and difference
ed
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TMacPen (#105), don't you think the UK has a free press as well as we in the US? Financial Times can write whatever they want, as far as I am concerned.
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Teh number of people who who failed to see the irony in Justin's comments about Appalchian's reading the FT is worrying.
We all like to think we have a great wit in this country (the UK) and it is people on the other side of the atlantic who don't get irony (just ask Alanis morrisette - she doesn't get it either).
Justin, you'll have to spell it out to people IN CAPITAL LETTERS IN FUTURE !
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I hate to break it to you Mr. Webb but most people in Appalachia don't read the FT and of those few who do, far fewer still give a hoot about what Brits in general think about anything or whom a particular financial newspaper endorses for America's president. If even domestic newspaper endorsement change few minds, it is not likely that the FT endorsement will change a single vote.
Here's another bit of breaking news. While mercenary armies may have been successful in Europe, Britain's mercenary army in the colonies, the Hessians lost the American Revolution along with the Redcoats. Perhaps Europe should send some mercenaries to Afghanistan to fight the Taleban and al Qaeda and start pulling their weight for a change....that is if they have any money left to pay mercenaries with anymore.
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Perhaps we should have a whip-round and get a Sarah Palin doll for Justin?
Cabbage patch candidates
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rocksimon1 (#125), "misunderestimate" is a quote from somewhere, the origin of which I've forgotten.
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Rocksimon1 (125),
Check your irony filters.
;-)
ed
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"117. At 2:30pm on 27 Oct 2008, BROWNED_OFF wrote:
#90
Couldn't agree with you more!
The media in Europe is predominantly left-wing, which is very boring. It stifles debate by suppressing or downplaying stories that don't fit with its political stance or dulls the critical faculties with a steady drip, drip, drip of left-wing drivel and political correctness. Much like the BBC, in fact!
An example of this is the media coverage of Obama's earlier life. The left-wing media don't want to go near it. Every potentially negative story is immediately dismissed as a smear - and all debate quashed"
Unfortunately no one cares, that is why the quality newsmedia here and i n the US are not intersted in who Obama might or might not have met 20 years ago.
It isn't news, the country is indifferent, it doesn't matter.
And that's your problem, you can't believe the republicans have lost the plot.
Sorry but that's democracy for you
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Speaking of Reagan
Peace and [Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]
ed
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Reagan did not have media support to make him look better than he really was.
"Hope and Change" 2008
"Hope to Change Back" 2012
NATO - "Not Another Tax Obama!"
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#13 GHBRich
That was really painful to watch.
I agree, I disagree, I agree...
I am already wondering how Republicans missed on a guy like Romney. As independent I had my eyes on the former MA governor.
The country just missed a great opportunity to have a clear debate on issues by opposing a lightweight McCain to an Obama of a higher caliber.
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129. At 2:53pm on 27 Oct 2008, seanspa wrote:
I read the Economist occasionally, and find it enjoyable and informative. I didn't realise that I liked commie rags so much."
Yes I was not aware it was the policy of communist publications to support the war on Iraq.
But two cheers for the far right for trying to drag up McCarthysm again. Fifty years after it ended.
By Friday I imagine they will have regressed to calling him a heretic, or a witch.
EG Obama takes a walk in the evening is he off to a black sabbath?
Michelle Obama owns a cat and a broom - it all fits!
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# 117
I find I am still fretting about this post.
In the UK, we have two genuinely leftie newspapers in The Guardian and The Daily Mirror.
Then, in ascending order of rightiness, we have The Independent, The Times, The Daily Telegraph, The Daily Mail and The Daily Express.
The Sun just takes the line which will best suit Rupert Murdoch's interest at any point in time - and The Daily Star doesn't count.
As to the American press neglecting their duty of Obama-scandal-sniffing, the best job has been done by The New Yorker who published Ryan Lizza's in-depth investigation of Obama's political rise. It was a thorough job - but it had one drawback. It was BORING - as ascendance of the political ladder tends to be, unless you are Peter Mandelson, George Osbourne or, indeed Bill Clinton.
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"136. At 3:04pm on 27 Oct 2008, MarcusAureliusII wrote:
I hate to break it to you Mr. Webb but most people in Appalachia don't read the FT and of those few who do, far fewer still give a hoot about what Brits in general think about anything or whom a particular financial newspaper endorses for America's president. If even domestic newspaper endorsement change few minds, it is not likely that the FT endorsement will change a single vote.
Here's another bit of breaking news. While mercenary armies may have been successful in Europe, Britain's mercenary army in the colonies, the Hessians lost the American Revolution along with the Redcoats.
Hessians were not mercenaries, the clue is in their nationality.
But hey when did you ever learn any US history?
Too boring?
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# 135 annd 136
Just as nejsuk has explained the irony of it all, along comes Marcus who wouldn't see irony if it came at him riding a zebra, with a squirrel on its head, brandishing a panda.
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With the queue of posts awaiting clearance, I'm sure I' not the first to find Marcus' post in 136 rather funny, given post 135. That he probably didn't see 135 before posting just shows that brits and yanks are rather bind to irony.
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Justin, judging by people's reactions to your "Holy Cow! Britain's premier business paper has come out for Obama..." comment they didn't notice the bulge in your cheek. Some people these days don't get it unless it's followed by a "Not!" at the end which sort of beats the objective.
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Speaking of Reagan
Peace and maps
ed
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135. nejsuk wrote:
"The number of people who who failed to see the irony in Justin's comments about Appalchian's reading the FT is worrying."
No, it's expected. Adapt a reply to a heckler I heard once: "I see we have a wit in the audience. Pity only half of him came."
Squirrels Unite! You have nothing to lose but some nuts!
(Speaking of which, I see another is back. I'm off!)
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Re 97, 108, 114 and others:
Factionalism, divisiveness, revisionism are rampant in the naturalist party today. Until we can overcome our differences and turn to face the enemy we all fear we are doomed to begging from the INF
We're in this together and we're all nuts!
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Drudge52 wrote:
"No need to bring up a 2001 interview with the Chicago radio station WBEZ because Obama put his foot in his mouth with the Joe the Plumber interview...."We need to spread the wealth around". His quote is already out there,the 2001 interview just shows that his views are unchanged from early on in his quest for power./Barack Obama for all time will be remembered for this one quote if not for anything else whether one likes it or not."
Jeez - a prophet who can foretell the future for all time. Welcome to the blog. For that matter, welcome to the planet.
Unfortunately, whilst this may pass for prophecy on your planet - planet Rushlimbaugh or whatever it's called - it passes for ludicrous propaganda on this one.
McCain and co will hammer away at this for the next few days - the 'proof' that Obama is a pinko/Commie.
According to the polls, most people seem to think that a cut in tax for 95% of taxpayers, with those earning 250k plus paying a bit more, is not exactly akin to the worst excesses of Lenin, Stalin, Mao and the French Revolution.
But that's just this planet, of course...
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From the "ground game" in North Carolina
Folk (on both sides) are getting involved in a totally unprecedented way.Peace and enthusiasm
ed
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I wonder how much the endorsement of Barak Obama by the Financial Times has affected the betting odds in this presidential race.
Odds quoted by a large bookmaker is as follows:
Obama @ 1/12
McCain @ 6/1
Guess now is the time for the McCain supporters to make a bundle betting on their candidates chances.
One never knows, Chelsea just lost.
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Simon21 wrote
But do explain why you believe it is better to have wealth concentrated in a few privileged hands rather than spread around.
That is not what John McCain is saying at all.
Obama wants to tax those who earn more than $250,000 a year.
A couple who work in a high cost city like New York and earn $125,000 each are not rich.It goes by cost of living and those who live and work in the large cities on the east and west coasts are going to suffer much more from Obama`s tax plan than McCain`s
In addition,those who own small businesses are suffering because of the move into recession and are making cutbacks.
The additional burden of further taxes as Obama proposes will further discourage them to take on more workers and in fact it will cause them to lay people off,reducing further tax revenues.
People tend to forget that when jobs are created or encouraged by government those new workers pay taxes, therefore increasing government revenue by default.
When millions of jobs are created by reducing taxation to small businesses this will stimulate the economy in so many ways.
1,New Jobs:Workers will pay taxes,they will have money to spend,they will spend their money,buying American made goods,in turn those who make the goods will have to produce more,and you can see the cycle progress.
2,Increased confidence will stimulate the markets and those new workers will have spare money to buy stocks. etc etc.
The old tired socialist view of spreading the wealth has failed.
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Yep, all across redneck country concerned citizens a heaving a sigh of relief as the FT validates what they know in their hearts to be true ... : )
Justin was being ironic my friends and I could'n't agree more .. I could'n't disagree etc ...
I'm John McCain, and I've lost my message.
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#131
Yes I have it delivered every morning with my copy of the Morning Star.
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"I am already wondering how Republicans missed on a guy like Romney." - joplass
Yes indeed, Romney would undoubtedly have triumphed, thanks to his magic Mormon underwear!
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# 107. oldnat
"EVERYONE knows that you still cling to your Squirrel party roots and that your APPARENT conversion to PANDAISM is a blind."
I GENUINELY laughed OUT loud.
It was so nice to see a rant full of capitals on this blog that was [for once] intentionally amusing.
[Sorry - INTENTIONALLY amusing.]
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#139
Ahhhh a Bushism. My irony filters are flashing brightly as we speak.
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Justin. Please excuse the slightly off topic response but your title got me to contemplating the move to the left in recent American politics.
Probably already mentioned by others but perhaps not.
Reagan, Clinton, W, and Obama.
Right?, Left?, Right?, Left?.
There is someting sinister about three of these {in fact John Mccain too} where W. is the exception but his father H.W was not.
This could be a problem if face to face meetings with Middle Eastern dignitaries is now being planned.
Following Wikipedias' assessment that they only make up 10% of the population,and the later remark by a UCL professor who credits them as high achievers, mathematical, sporting and artistic geniuses, one wonders where W went wrong, and Mccain is now going wrong.
Could it be that W was left orientated, but made to follow the right approach?
Mccain was right and yet has been instructed to follow the opposite approach.
If the professor Chris McManus is correct then the stalwarts of bloggers here - Ed, [ who is a must], MAII, GnR, british-ish, David, Sam, Bill, Dominic and some others could be 10%ers too.
odd men out
And you Justin, the Editor whose leanings have caused him to receive many question marks about his changing stance. What is your preference?
Are you Right, or Left, or both? - Though the Portuguese translation "the Devil" does seem to fit you to a T.
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Drudge, 156, this cannot be right. These people are selfish, greedy and only out for themselves. That others may have jobs, pay taxes because of them is irrelevant to what is important. Tax the rich. It's not a means, it's an end!
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Barack and the "New Party"
Barack Obama's old law firm, Miner, Barhill & Galland, in the shape of partner Sarah Siskind, took a case to the Supreme court to overturn state bans on "fusion" voting.
More Info from our right wing Libertarian friend at:
http://newzeal.blogspot.com/
Remember Obama's campaign "fight the smears" site is spinning furiously as we speak. Wonder what they will do with that.
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The ability to communicate your vision to the country is important but it is not all important. Lyndon Johnson was not the speaker that Reagan was but he still managed to pass some of the most progressive legislation of any President. In Britain Clement Atlee was no Churchill in regards to speech making but he gave us the NHS.
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# 55 DominickVila wrote:
"In the midst of all these foreign endorsements, which are more detrimental or meaningless than helpful to our candidates, Sarah Palin continues to attract huge crowds wherever she goes... "
Dominick
You appear to have made this point a few times.
While I don't dispute it, I would just respectfully query its relevance.
There seem little doubt that Palin has fired up the Christianist roots of the Republican party. No doubt that was one of the reasons for her nomination. However , whatever polls I've seen indicate that she's signally failed to appeal to independents, undecideds and women in general. Frankly her poll figures are fairly dire - I'm sure I read she has the highest unfavourables for a VP candidate for c 3 decades - including D Quayle. And even though there's a strong case that the VP pick isn't that important, there seems to be lots of evidence that choosing her has reflected poorly on McCain's reputation.
Having said all that - I shall wait till the large-boned lady has performed her final aria. As Obama said, never underestimate the capacity of the Democrats to screw things up [or something like that].
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actually Sarah's stolen it ...
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Make it six Secretaries of State!C'mon, Condie! You know you want to!
Peace and sisterhood
ed
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159 Nick-Gotts wrote:
"Yes indeed, Romney would undoubtedly have triumphed, thanks to his magic Mormon underwear!"
You know, I have NO idea what that means.
But it did make me laugh.
Seriously though - Romney is still being touted for 2012 - assuming Obama wins.
I imagine his 'pros' would include being a relatively successful Governor and businessman.
The cons appear to include [a] he's a Mormon, and the Christianist Right don't seem to trust that and [b] shameless and excessive flip-flopping, even by political standards.
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"156. At 3:39pm on 27 Oct 2008, Drudge52 wrote:
Simon21 wrote
But do explain why you believe it is better to have wealth concentrated in a few privileged hands rather than spread around.
That is not what John McCain is saying at all.
Obama wants to tax those who earn more than $250,000 a year."
Nice try but you criticised Obama's remark of itself. I am asking why.
Do you disagree or agree with the principle?
"A couple who work in a high cost city like New York and earn $125,000 each are not rich."
Ahh lambs. But they are not exactly poor are they?
"It goes by cost of living and those who live and work in the large cities on the east and west coasts are going to suffer much more from Obama`s tax plan than McCain`s"
Wow do all people in US cities earn over $250,000? Not the impression I gained.
I was under the distinct impression that huge numbers earned less than that.
In addition,those who own small
"businesses are suffering because of the move into recession and are making cutbacks."
Do you mean sacking people?
The additional burden of further taxes as Obama proposes will further discourage them to take on more workers and in fact it will cause them to lay people off,reducing further tax revenues."
So businesses are "cutting back". These "cut back" people need support do they not?
Or maybe they could all go to New York and earn $250,000 -easy
"People tend to forget that when jobs are created or encouraged by government those new workers pay taxes, therefore increasing government revenue by default."
No deliberately, who pays taxes by default?
"When millions of jobs are created by reducing taxation to small businesses this will stimulate the economy in so many ways.
1,New Jobs:Workers will pay taxes,they will have money to spend,they will spend their money,buying American made goods,in turn those who make the goods will have to produce more,and you can see the cycle progress.
2,Increased confidence will stimulate the markets and those new workers will have spare money to buy stocks. etc etc.
The old tired socialist view of spreading the wealth has failed."
Hmm a bit simplistic though. You give wll heeled people money and deprive the less well heeled.
So the well off can be encouraged, and the poor and unemployed punished.
And you don't know why this view is proving less than popular in a recession.
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Bright eyed and bushy tailed as only we bloggers on the site know how to be, I was going to respond to Drudge # 156.
Then I decided that I just couldn't be bothered (and I use the word bothered merely to appease the mods/gods).
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Nice Brian,
A hot tip for youPeace and snake-eyes
ed
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Eightypercent (#9):
I don't know what you are talking about, and to be fair, I haven't read the article you refer to. But I'm from Arizona and I assure you, McCain is much admired here. Just yesterday I drove through one residential street and there were no fewer that 15 McCain/Palin signs posted on front yards. None for Obama. The Arizona Republic, a very liberal paper, came out with it's glowing endorsement for McCain on Sunday, titled "McCain, it's Time." I wish you and others could read it, but it's not realistic to expect the British press to present a balanced and fair reporting of what Americans really think.
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Re: #160 et al. Let us not forget that the McCain campaign has accused the squirrel party of deceptive ACORN practices.
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164. At 3:51pm on 27 Oct 2008, exserviceman wrote:
Barack and the "New Party"
Barack Obama's old law firm, Miner, Barhill & Galland, in the shape of partner Sarah Siskind, took a case to the Supreme court to overturn state bans on "fusion" voting.
More Info from our right wing Libertarian friend at:
http://newzeal.blogspot.com/
Remember Obama's campaign "fight the smears" site is spinning furiously as we speak. Wonder what they will do with that."
Who knows or cares?
Obama himself will go on winning votes and completing the last stages of his masterful campaign.
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#156 Drudge52
"A couple who work in a high cost city like New York and earn $125,000 each are not rich"
But if they don't file their taxes separately, they're really stupid!
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Johnindublin wrote
There seem little doubt that Palin has fired up the Christianist roots of the Republican party. No doubt that was one of the reasons for her nomination. However , whatever polls I've seen indicate that she's signally failed to appeal to independents, undecideds and women in general.
Yes you are right, she has fired up the Republican base and she has been very successful.It was a master stroke from McCain.
She is a great orator and can get a crowd fired up,but unlike Obama she adds substance to all the rhetoric.
We still have 8 days to go and all the polls will be meaningless when that voter makes his or her mark or pulls that lever in private behind that curtain.
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160 Dear Mr Dublin.
Oldnat wishes to thank you for your kind comments. Unfortunately, due to a violent bout of capitalisation, he has been diagnosed with a severe case of what we doctors call Palinitis.
Janet has made him a wee cup of tea, and Dr Cameron has dispensed a large dram. We have sent to America for a tonic which is expected to arrive here on November 5th.
We anticipate a full recovery.
Yours sincerely
Dr Findlay
PS Please inform Mr British that Wee Free Sharkism (the dogfish cult) is alive and well here in the Western Isles.
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Waterman (162),
Thanks for the compliment and for the very interesting link. Sadly, the best I can manage is mild ambidexterity ;-( I once knew someone whose perfect copperplate handwriting had to be written on tracing paper so at to be readable by "normal" folk from the obverse. Fortunately, I've always been able to read such mirror-writing relatively easily, and I can write (with difficulty) with my left hand.
When I taught glassblowing it was always in a right-handed workshop environment, but, more often than not, lefties were able to exceed their rightie colleagues.
Peace and hot glass
ed
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"173. At 4:04pm on 27 Oct 2008, Desertann wrote:
Eightypercent (#9):
I don't know what you are talking about, and to be fair, I haven't read the article you refer to. But I'm from Arizona and I assure you, McCain is much admired here. Just yesterday I drove through one residential street and there were no fewer that 15 McCain/Palin signs posted on front yards. None for Obama. The Arizona Republic, a very liberal paper, came out with it's glowing endorsement for McCain on Sunday, titled "McCain, it's Time." I wish you and others could read it, but it's not realistic to expect the British press to present a balanced and fair reporting of what Americans really think."
Arizona being where all Americans live?
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"the US deserves the President they elect."
"Democracy is the only form of government that ensures people get no better leaders than they deserve."
Democratic presidents have been better for the US economy for some time. I don't know why financial magazines don't routinely endorse the Democratic candidate.
Could it be the looting of the US treasury on behalf of the rich that the Republicans (with Democratic help) habitually carry out?
While the FT endorsement might sway 6 votes in the US, the endorsement of Obama by the Chicago Tribune (first ever for a Democratic candidate) and other Republican newspapers has had a significant influence on the small number of Americans who can still read.
Another problem is the McCain health care plan. McCain couldn't get coverage under it. Neither could Palin.
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Just a thought:
If a small business is subject to tax, it must be profitable, mustn't it? If it's "already struggling", it probably isn't making enough to be taxed....or am I missing something?
What exactly is the problem with taxing profits?
A. Simpleton
;-)
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I have to give a little anecdotal evidence to support Desertann on the opinion about McCain in Arizona.
My one point of reference is my highly intelligent and left-leaning Arizona-born sister-in-law, who has nothing but good things to say about McCain, and virtually no other Republican.
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#164, exserviceman
You asserted that Obama had in fact stood for election as a member of the New Party, and are continuing to press this case.
A simple question for you: can you provide any independent evidence for this?
I asked you (post 77 above) to provide this, but unsurpringly you're just providing links to a (your words) "right-wing libertarian". And even that source doesn't provide any evidence to back your claims.
Unless you can substantiate your assertion, I'll have to assume that you're either:
(a) a forum troll
(b) unwilling to face the truth
(c) living on another planet
Hey, I could be wrong. It might just be that you have some knowledge that the the rest of us need to know. But you'll understand that I'm hugely sceptical, that I need to be convinced. So if you have proof of what you allege, provide a reliable link.
You might also want to send it to Sen. McCain, who would probably seize on this incontrovertible proof of Marxist intent and let the world know. Heck, it would probably win him the election.
Which begs a question. If what you allege is true, McCain MUST know. It's a matter of public record as to who stands for election. And if he knows this cataclysmic fact, why isn't McCain using it? Or are you alleging that this is such a huge conspiracy that even McCain's in on it? That perhaps the plot by dark (skinned) forces is so huge that the political parties no longer count?
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Justin, In what part of Appalachia--known for its coal mines and bone-grinding poverty--have you found people waking up to read the Financial Times delivered to their doorsteps? I'm skeptical that an Economist headline could ever rock middle Tennessee or rural Virginia. If a pile of pinkish newsprint appeared outside a truck stop in West Virginia most patrons would simply think "old discoloured newspapers," not FT (which probably just means "full time" to them). If you've found the secret cosmopolitan nexus at the end of John Denver's "Country Roads" rainbow, by all means please share it with the rest of us.
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#36 - you would really have to say 28 of those 28 years were Republican ... Clinton was a Democrat but the whole time he was in office the Congress was controled by the Republicans. That he was able to anything for the Democratic party and the people they represent (of course we were only 48% of the populace by vote) just showed how well he was able to reach accross the asile and get some of the republicans to vote with the democrats and most of that was done on a tit for tat agreement ... he would promice to support or not to veto 2 or 3 things they wanted so he could get one program the democrats supported. Once Bush got into office .. so much for reaching accross the asile.
Remember even though Bush did not get the popular vote, he decided his 48% was a mandate.
Regards,
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Simon, are you by any chance a teacher? The kinder, gentler JF may appreciate the irony in this, but I don't think I've ever seen a post of yours that does not takes another's post and then criticises it. It would jut make a change to see a post of yours that didn't have red lines through most of it.
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Simon21
#156
IF you make $250,000.00 you have the means to live in NYC. I make way less than that I lived in Roosevelt Island for a while. It depends where in NYC. IF you make $250,00.00 and you have a lot of debts and other responsibilities then you have no business living in on Park Ave NYC. You go across the river in NJ even there it depends where. As you see it is all connected. You target you expenses based on your income.
Small businesses I know don't employ a lot of people big businesses no doubt do. The argument that cutting tax for businesses or the wealthiest equate creating jobs has not been working. Those jobs are created alright but not in the US.
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Ed, I'm afraid you've been found out. You've sold out! Your website has an advert for McDonald's in it. And it's not the local farm. :)
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No comment needed
Peace and West Virginia
ed
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185 Donkey1976 wrote:
Justin, In what part of Appalachia--known for its coal mines and bone-grinding poverty--have you found people waking up to read the Financial Times delivered to their doorsteps? I'm skeptical that an Economist headline could ever rock middle Tennessee or rural Virginia. If a pile of pinkish newsprint appeared outside a truck stop in West Virginia most patrons would simply think "old discoloured newspapers," not FT (which probably just means "full time" to them). If you've found the secret cosmopolitan nexus at the end of John Denver's "Country Roads" rainbow, by all means please share it with the rest of us.
............................
I swear I will hunt down and kill (well at least flame) the next poster stupid enough not to get that JUSTIN WAS JOKING. He knows the FT don't go down real big in the heartlands. Its called irony, folks
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#115 DutchAnge
I was joking. It wasn't a very good joke but it was a joke in #50.
All these posters from the Right who are blaming everyone else and describing Obama as a dangerous commie, when they and their big corporation friends have been running the show for donkeys years, amaze me.
This blog entry seems to have created more (enjoyable) misunderstandings and missed jokes than any other I recall.
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Desert Ann and Redwhiteetc
You can find the article by clicking on Justin's mention of The Economist (above) and then selecting their piece called Global Electoral College. The McCain piece I mentioned comes under 'The Candidates at Home'.
There is irony in your defence of McCain because the gist of the article is that McCain is too moderate for much of Arizona -which indicates that you, as supporters, must both be good people of moderation.
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#170
Simon21
For the last 8 years those making $250K and the wealthiest got their extra large tax cuts. Maybe it is time to give one to the little guys so that they can go out and buy products made from China and elsewhere with those jobs that Americans companies deemed not good for the American citizens since they rather pay $.05 out of the country than $1.00 in the country.
Very weak argument.
The middle class is the engine of every modern economy. They more they have they more they will spend which will create more jobs to keep up with production.
It is up to the greedy CEO and greedy shareholders not to keep jobs here at home.
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An alternate view of the election result is to be found in Newsweek. Stranger things have happened!
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endofin at 184
The only evidence is the physical copy that the blogger picked up in Washington. It seems to be New Party publication material.
Unless he takes that physical copy to a mainstream media organisation and they check it out, there can't be an independent internet link, right?
What the blogger is hoping is that other sources will show up. He is back in N.Z. so he's stuck with what ever he can do over the internet.
As for Mccain doing this himself, I think he knows a great deal, but word of mouth, so he can't push it.
I think he thinks just pushing steadily on Aryres will eventually reveal a source into the Chicago machine. A whistleblower of some kind.
Fox actually had the story up on their site for 6 hours. I think they took it down because of the Bloggers religous beliefs. I try not to judge people on that, but Fox and other media have to be very careful.
If I hadn't seen Rev. Wright performance a week after sept 11th, 2001, I might be less worried.
Mccain won't use Wright because it will open up racial politics and divide the country. I even understand some of Wrights criticism of previous US foreign policy - but how he could have said those things after 911 is beyond my comprehension.
So if Barack gets a pass for strange religous beliefs, maybe I can give the Blogger one?
The fact [should be open to easy confirmation] that Barack's old law firm partner took the New Party case to the supreme court could help. Hopefully there will be independent confirmation of this, court records etc.
In answer to a, b, c, I would say d, I am hoping for another third party to spill the beans. It is dangerous for anyone in chicago [i mean career wise] to speak out against the chicago machine.
If I am totally wrong, no harm is done, but If there is a real problem perhaps a US reader in Chicago will turn up physical evidence in the form of Mobile phone tapes or shots?
I realise I am seen as someone trying to "dis" an extremely popular man.
If I am completely wrong, good, I will sleep a lot, lot sounder at night.
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IS OBAMA A SOCIALIST IN DISGUISE?
The man is own words..
The interview -- conducted by Chicago Public Radio in 2001, while Obama was an Illinois state senator and a law professor at the University of Chicago -- delves into whether the civil rights movement should have gone further than it did, so that when "dispossessed peoples" appealed to the high court on the right to sit at the lunch counter, they should have also appealed for the right to have someone else pay for the meal.
In the interview, Obama said the civil rights movement was victorious in some regards, but failed to create a "redistributive change" in its appeals to the Supreme Court, led at the time by Chief Justice Earl Warren. He suggested that such change should occur at the state legislature level, since the courts did not interpret the U.S. Constitution to permit such change.
"The Supreme Court never ventured into the issues of redistribution of wealth and sort of basic issues of political and economic justice in this society, and to that extent as radical as people try to characterize the Warren Court, it wasn't that radical," Obama said in the interview, a recording of which surfaced on the Internet over the weekend.
"It didn't break free from the essential constraints that were placed by the founding fathers in the Constitution, at least as it has been interpreted.
"And the Warren court interpreted it generally in the same way -- that the Constitution is a document of negative liberties, says what the states can't do to you, says what the federal government can't do to you, but it doesn't say what the federal government or state government must do on your behalf, and that hasn't shifted.
"And I think one of the tragedies of the civil rights movement was that the civil rights movement became so court-focused, I think there was a tendency to lose track of the political and organizing activities on the ground that are able to bring about the coalitions of power through which you bring about redistributive change, and in some ways we still suffer from that," Obama said.
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You mean this one, Pa?
Peace and sandwiches
ed
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Ed, 80, Brit
Just dropping by to say hi ... I'm sitting here reading More's Utopia, and glancing at the FT online ;)
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# 177 Drudge52 wrote:
Of Sarah Palin [of whom someone recently said 'She makes George W look like Cicero'.]
"Yes you are right, she has fired up the Republican base and she has been very successful.It was a master stroke from McCain./She is a great orator and can get a crowd fired up,but unlike Obama she adds substance to all the rhetoric./We still have 8 days to go and all the polls will be meaningless when that voter makes his or her mark or pulls that lever in private behind that curtain."
Palin? 'Substance'?
And the Republicans say it's the Democrats who have 'drunk the Kool-Aid'...
There's nothing you can say to this stuff. I don't know how the election will turn out. No one does. Maybe the polls are wrong. Maybe there will be a sudden 'surge' [no pun intended] for McSame, sorry, McCain.
But i doubt there's ever been an election where the party behind in the polls didn't say the polls were wrong, that the 'feedback on the doorsteps' was quite different, that 'the only poll that counts is the one on polling day*' etc. They usually mention Truman. [And they're never so sceptical of polls when they're ahead in them.]
We'll see. I think Drudge is deluded, whistling in the dark, and not a member of 'the reality community'. Time will tell.
* Or in c 30 States, the poll that goes on for weeks before polling day
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# 195 ~ David C.
That Newsweek article is fascinating.
Tell me this. Do you think that, as Obama becomes more familiar to people, the issue of his colour is diminishing ?
I realise that there are some people who will never be able to vote for person of colour but Americans were prepared to put their trust in Colin Powell and Condi is probably the most respected person in the Bush White House.
We hear much less of the old mantra of "we don't know him" nowadays about Obama now that he has been in the centre of the public eye all year. And he has shown astonishing personal and political discipline throughout the campaign. Do you think this is generally accepted now ?
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174. Candace9839 wrote:
"Re: #160 et al. Let us not forget that the McCain campaign has accused the squirrel party of deceptive ACORN practices."
Shocking, but typical of the slurs and smears that have beset this election. I can assure you that the Squirrel Party has engaged in no deceptive or hidden practices involving an acorn. (Well, not deceptive, anyway. Hiding them, maybe.)
This has just arrived in my mailbox, addressed to "all ten-percenters":
IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT FROM THE SQUIRREL PARTY
Henceforth, we wish to be known as the RED Squirrel Party.
This is a change which has been under discussion among the branches for some time, and we feel now is the right-- dammit, no, perfect -- time for a change.
Our adoption of the new name is the reult of long deliberation, and is not connected in any way with the increasing success and popularity of the leftie-pinko-commie-socialist, or red-ish, Obama party.
It has been borne out of our desire* to clearly distinguish us from the revanchist and revisionist un-squirrelian Grey Squirrel Coalition and its grey-ish Panda, Zebra, Elephant and Donkey Party backers.
Of course we will continue, and welcome, our association with the Sharkist and Alligator parties, as long as they keep their sharper teeth well away from our tales.
We will, with our friends and allies, continue the fight against the Moose Party, and hope to score further successes in that campaign. Thank you all for your support in these difficult times.
(Our fundamental principles and arguments as expressed by our spokesperson Brit-ish-ish remain unchanged.)
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The Notting Hill Hammer wrote:
"I swear I will hunt down and kill (well at least flame) the next poster stupid enough not to get that JUSTIN WAS JOKING. He knows the FT don't go down real big in the heartlands. Its called irony, folks"
'Baldrick, do you know what irony means?'
'Yeah - it's like goldy and silvery and bronzy'
;-)
[I am a bit wary of these emoticons - they always feel a bit like nudging someone in the ribs or - heaven forfend - winking at them, but I've found from bitter experience that on the Web, what can be misunderstood, will be misunderstood - by at least one person.]
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#196 exserviceman
"He is back in N.Z. so he's stuck with what ever he can do over the internet."
I can understand that.
We all know that the Kiwis don't have any universities, scientists, journalists (or even newspapers).
Poor guy! - The story of the century which could earn him a fortune, and all he has are a lot of sheep for company. Now if he'd stayed in a civilized country ..........
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David (195),
Thanks for that. Frightening and not beyond belief. ;-((
Let's hope the GOP voters don't forget to turn out and vote on the 5th...
Peace and misdirection
ed
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Ed, apologies, I should have known better. I hate moving gifs, they make the foolish even more so.
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Firstly I want to Thank all the contributors to this blog for providing a brilliant read on a wet and dark british evening.
My particular favourite for today must go to posts 135 + 136. For anyone who hasn't seen the most perfect ordering of blogs ever written this is a must see.
Marcus (#136) - I find it very interesting that you think Europe should start "pulling their weight for a change". This troubles me.
(1) This suggests that you think a country has the right to go to another country and 'push its weight around'
(2) You think that European soldiers are not 'pulling their weight'. This is very disrespectful.
My best friend has just returned from serving in Afghanistan and I have the utmost respect for him and his colleagues and the professional job that they do. For you to suggest that he has not pulled his weight, after risking his life for months in a dangerous foreign field, while you sit in your nice cosy home on your computer is degrading and extremely disrespectful to british and european military personal.
#173 - Desertann:
Having worked in america for the last 3 years I find it astonishing that you think that the BBC and british press do not offer a balanced view compared to american reporting. Contrary to your views I think that it IS realistic to expect the British press to present a balanced and fair reporting of what Americans really think, we are not so easilly fooled.
To even contemplate allowing someone such as SP to become vice-president (or even president) of the world's most powerful country, with less foreign travel experience than my 3 year old cousin is not only staggering, it frightens me. It should frighten you too.
I would also love to see Jeremy Paxman interview the candidates. I think it would be very enlightening. SP would look like a moose caught in headlights.
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#53. wordpower: "Senator Obama . . . tends to stammer as he searches for words while Kennedy, Reagan and President Bush excel(led) at that level."
If it's President George W. Bush you're referencing, he's hardly been able to string three words together coherently - and his delivery, even with a TelePrompTer, is pedestrian. Reagan was a professional, second tier actor who was familiar with scripts and always turned in a good performance. Kennedy was not president long enough to compare with the others. I don't think Mr Obama s-s-s-stutters, but rather fine tunes his responses before uttering them.
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197.icetayoa wrote:
"whether the civil rights movement should have gone further than it did, so that when "dispossessed peoples" appealed to the high court on the right to sit at the lunch counter, they should have also appealed for the right to have someone else pay for the meal."
If that's how you summarise what Obam said in your quote, I think you need to read both that interview and the history of the economic situation of the African-Americans in the period of the Civil Rights movement more carefully. Or at least, more intelligently.
You demean, in a few words, a long and painful fight for some basic human rights. Don't be ridiculous.
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Confusing North Carolina Ballot Leaves off Votes for President
It begins....Peace and re-counts
ed
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195. David_Cunard wrote:
"An alternate view of the election result is to be found in Newsweek. Stranger things have happened!"
That's why I keep saying I don't think the poll margins are wide enough to convince me that might not happen.
I suspect that is also why McCain is busy in what at first look like rather odd places. I'd like to look a lot deeper into some of that than any 'analysts' seem to be interested in doing.
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Ref 182
"What exactly is the problem with taxing profits?"
The fact that it is long overdue! If it hadn't been for the irresponsible tax cuts to profitable corporations and the wealthiest Americans, while raising spending to untenable levels, we wouldn't be in the fiscal and economic mess we are in today.
Ironically, we refer to the GOP borrow and spend policies as "fiscally conservative" and regard fiscal and economic policies focused on the audacious concept of paying for what we get as liberal. As far as I am concerned, passing the bill for the things we want and get to our grandchildren is the most liberal and irresponsible concept anyone could dream of.
The real irony, however, is that the most adamant supporters of GOP fiscal and economic policies are precisely the ones most affected by them; the same way that the most affected by our healthcare and education crises are often the most rabid opponents to government assistance to improve those critical social programs. Brainwashing?
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# 197 ~ Icey ~ you never let us down.
At 12.21 in post # 57 I warned that this story was headlining on Drudge and would be winging its way to the in-boxes of the socialism-theorists.
I do have to congratulate you on your precis of the 2001 interviews as I believe that the original tape is an hour long and some of it is quite difficult to decipher.
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Mr. Webb,
I hope this link can be posted:
http://theamericanexpatinuk.blogspot.com/2006/01/justin-webb-apologizes-for-offending.html
Thank you.
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OT, but here's a story on the Beeb about class.
The comments are fascinating, and I really don't know what to make of them. Prescott seems embarassed, almost guilty, that he achieved something.
My grandmother lived in a council house all her life. My father did well in school, went to university, worked hard and got reasonably well paid. He hates the monarchy.
I just don't see people as my betters or as lower class. I actual find the use of the term class as divisive and distracting. Some are fortunate, some less so. Some have opportunity and some les so. For me it's all about education, and the opportunities that arise from that.
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To#8 Eightypercent
I have known this for a long time but thought it was only a few of us.
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cannjc
#207
"Having worked in america for the last 3 years I find it astonishing that you think that the BBC and british press do not offer a balanced view compared to american reporting. Contrary to your views I think that it IS realistic to expect the British press to present a balanced and fair reporting of what Americans really think, we are not so easilly fooled."
In America if you don't agree with republicans in particular you are defacto labeled unpatriotic, socialist, liberal...etc
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Scrolling through comments this AM I came across #39 on Reagan and think he's a pretty good example of one of the thing the Right has to offer:
Rhetoric. I don't mean well thought out ideas, but repeating the same old phrases that the less informed want to believe.
Reagan was the perfect Conservative Hero. Not especially bright (the far right distrust intelligence and education as "elitist"), but someone who would say the all things they longed to hear. Poor soul, he faded away right before their eyes and they were too busy cheering to notice.
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In the interest of fairness, posters may care to see the latest anti-Obama commercial. Looks like an act of desperation to me, but it may resonate with some of the undecided.
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Yes, indeed, typical toff fare, another sneering, condescending reference to those "gritty, working folk", this time dressed up with the code word "Appalachia". Of course the 'yobs' in Appalachia, perhaps the poorest and most deprived part of America - although there are plenty of other down-and-out sections, too - wouldn't pay much attention to ruling class publications like the FT, if they've ever evan heard of it in the first place. So such asides, are pure class snottery from effete foreign correspondents and their ilk. A "way with verbiage" is simply another way of describing ruling class propaganda, whether it's the more refined kind of the FT/Economist or the cruder type as in the Tabloid press and BBC Blogs. So McCain is right, albeit not in the way he perhaps intended, it is a "sinister, even meaningless non-virtue". Very sinister indeed when it serves the ends of American empire as it always does with Duopoly Party candidates like Obama Copacabana. If he's more effective at it than McCain then it's easy to understand why both the FT and the doyen of the tabs, R. Murdoch fancy him. They deem him more effective at serving their interests than McCain. Just like those other "eloquent and persuasive" - and sinister - puppets, Ray-gun, Billary, Dubya, et al. And that's very bad news for Appalachia - and most of the rest of the undepriveleged world. America's mercenary army will still be on the march no matter who becomes king for a day.
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David,
It can also be a technique, giving the impression of an un-rehearsed and c-c-considered response. It was very characteristic of Tory Blair, who also championed Ch-ch-ch-changePeace and perspective
ed
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# 6 MagicKirin
"Obama does best when he has a set script. McCain does better when he can improvise and is not stuck in a single position or using a teleprompter."
And [to a lesser extent] # 53 wordpower
"Obama's weakness, however, is an inability to link a chain of thoughts in an unscripted interview. He tends to stammer as he searches for words while Kennedy, Reagan and President Bush excel(led) at that level."
I already posted on this in the last few days.
For weeks if not months, one of the fave Rep mantras was 'Obama is nothing without a teleprompter. He's just a big speech-making empty suit' etc ad nauseam
Then there were 3 live debates. No teleprompters. As I recall amost all polls of voters showed Obama winning all 3. Against the 'vastly experienced' Sen McCain.
Time to change the record perhaps?
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#209 british-ish
If you are ever in Greensboro NC, visit the Woolworth's store which is now a museum to the Civil Rights Movement.
They'll show you the actual seats in the cafeteria that the activists sat in - and the space where the ones that they gave to the Smithsonian were!
Give them a donation since they're badly underfunded.
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207. cannjc
Don't bother with Marcus, or whichever of the various other ID's he adopts here. He is not susceptible to reason or rational argument and will seize on anything any of us write to unleash more intolerant vituperation.
He appears to think he is an agent provocateur when he long since became merely an offensive irritant.
As you will have noticed, when he sees he is surrounded by people who know his tricks and do ignore him now, he quickly disappears. That's how you can spot his alter egos . . .
We think his latest is 'DameMargaretThatcher'.
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Mr. Webb, in case you don't have a calendar, the election hasn't occurred yet.
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Oldnat 204
Good points
But this guy is also amazingly popular outside the US. Try saying anthing bad about Barack in NZ to an academic and you will receive a puzzled stare at best.
Scientists, OK but hed have to pay upfront for that. We can live in hope.
No, most people wiki him, see his religion, then run away like Fox.
I am only interested because of Ayres, Wright etc, and the
"I will negotiate with Russia to take our ICBM's off hair trigger alert" Statement.
These things in isolation, no real problem, but together, I admit to a little fear.
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#210 Ed Iglehart
Thanks for this. I've emailed it to my daughter-in-law in NC, who planned to vote the Democratic ticket.
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"Around Appalachia this morning people are waking bleary-eyed and opening their FTs with their diner-served egg muffins"
On a lighter note - what are "diner-served egg muffins"? Are there really any old time "diners" left and, in all the years I've lived in California (home of McDonalds), I've never seen or heard of an "egg muffin", other than an Egg McMuffin, which looks like a pretty awful way to start the day. Does Appalachia have some kind of culinary speciality common to that great swath of territory?
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Please, if anyone can tell me how to save this from you-tube and the Obama folowers stealin freedom of information away from us. HELP. Hit the link and listen.
Seems like every contrary video, audio or report online that shows Obama in other then the light of a messiah, is gone. Probaly twenty plus times this week I've tried to go back to source of information, post from this location with links in them that are no longer available.
I would like to know how can I save an actual vid or audio from you tube
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As long as we're talking about endorsements: Look up Vietnam Veterans Against John McCain.
They don't agree with the Conservative assertion that the press is too hard on McCain. Quite the reverse.
http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/cin_mccain_lost_five_u.htm
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214. Y_K_Hui
If you want to suggest you wish everybody in the world loved America, say so.
It's the application of some policies and the reiteration of some attitudes we don't love very much.
But (though I think we will find ourselves disappointed) if Obama is elected, perhaps that will change.
In the meantime, it's probably just a matter of grinning and bearing it. Something we Brits have had a lot of experience of. (And judging from some posts and blogs, still need to do . . .)
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One of the most fascinating things about Obama's campaign is the extraordinary control that he and his managers have over his message. His eloquence as described by the media and others is not describing what he says, but how he communicates through the imagery, the songs, and the intellectual depth associated with his words that mask truly unwise policies.
On a lighter note, how 'bout them Saints!
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"193. eightypercent"
Actually, I'm such a die-hard Obama supporter that I've got a letter drafted in my mind to the Queen of Denmark, asking for Danish citizenship, in the event McCain wins. I understand she gives citizenship to a few people who write to ask for it, I can put together something in Old Danish, and I don't have any better ideas as to how to get out of this country and stay out.
I would just rather grant McCain his points when I think he has them.
Also, I couldn't get to the article. It wanted a password and I didn't have the patience. I don't suppose it's posted somewhere publicly, is it?
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Obama revealed to have unionized his classmates at school! Recent documents obtained from our sources show that Barack Obama engaged in the organization of 'political education' classes in school break times, it is believed that litres of kool aid were consumed.
Well maybe not ... : )
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#20
NJ,
As does a Chimp.
Zoologist Sam
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Sean's Pa,
Like this?Trying to control the world?
I see you won't succeed.
T'ien hsia shen ch'i
The world is a spiritual vessel
And cannot be controlled.
Those who control, fail.
Those who grasp, lose.
Some go forth, some are led,
Some weep, some blow flutes,
Some become strong, some superfluous,
Some oppress, some are destroyed.
Therefore the Sage
Casts off extremes,
Casts off excess,
casts off extravagance.Education isn't everything, but it sometimes helps, sometimes not.
Peace and ambiguity
ed
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Hmmm, that gives me an idea ...
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cannjc #207:
I have been following the coverage of the Presidential race in the British press for months. I read the Timesonline, Guardian, Independent and BBC news daily. I can hardly remember an article or commentary that was positive towards McCain or Palin.
You can hardly call the kind of coverage in the British press, fair and balanced. Sorry.
As to your comment that Mrs. Palin has no foreign policy/travel experience: Well, what did that obscure Governor of Arkansas (Clinton), have? Or the former actor Ronald Reagan? Answer: none.
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208. At 5:45pm on 27 Oct 2008, David_Cunard wrote:
#53. wordpower: "Senator Obama . . . tends to stammer as he searches for words while Kennedy, Reagan and President Bush excel(led) at that level."
He certainly stumbled in the debates occasionally, which merely means he is not yet as practised as many British politicians -- or Kennedy or Reagan (remember, he was an actor!) - - in coming out with a smooth carefully rehearsed few seconds of waffle while his brain is working out the potential traps.
As David asks, which Bush? Bush the First came out with some astonishing gobbledeygook which should have alerted everybody to his son's inheried ability to diivorce his organs of speech form his brain the moment something complicated like a concept fights its way in.
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# 197
This poster, seeking to name-call a
person, inadvertently introduced an issue:
"And the Warren court interpreted it generally in the same way -- that the Constitution is a document of negative liberties, says what the states can't do to you, says what the federal government can't do to you, but it doesn't say what the federal government or state government must do on your behalf, and that hasn't shifted.
"And I think one of the tragedies of the civil rights movement was that the civil rights movement became so court-focused, I think there was a tendency to lose track of the political and organizing activities on the ground that are able to bring about the coalitions of power through which you bring about redistributive change, and in some ways we still suffer from that," Obama said.
That shows more analytical power than the man has been able to share recently.
On November 5th, let's addess it!
_______________________________
Is politics the search for power over others?
Is the goal to advance one's interests?
Do most seek their own advantage at the expense of others?
What should be one's duty to his fellow citizens?
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Obama is calling for unity and an end to the divisiveness that has driven this campaign.
I have understood that this is a common way to end a political campaign but I wonder.......
Will McCain do this as well or will he continue to try and divide this country even more?
We must all come together to solve our problems. No one person, either Democrat or Republican can do it all. 'We the People' made some very big mistakes in those we have elected these past eight years.
It is time that ALL of us also took some responsibility for the mess we are currently facing. We need to hold our elected officials accountable by questioning their decisions in vigorous debate.
The American people allowed George Bush to run rough shod over the world and to erode our constitution, all in the name of 'make us safe.' I am not afraid!
How many would like to join me? Bush used us and he lied to us to promote his own agenda. We allowed him to do it and WE ARE NOT SAFER! I do not believe that McCain would do anything differently but we will see who 'We the People' choose to elect.
The person we elect will be faced with a formidable array of problems. We need to come together and be supportive but we also need to take our responsibilities as American citizens very seriously this time!
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219 David C, convinced me! lol
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177. At 4:25pm on 27 Oct 2008, Drudge52 wrote:
She is a great orator and can get a crowd fired up,but unlike Obama she adds substance to all the rhetoric.
I can think of a "substance" she add to her speeches! SP is an incoherent simpleton. Her capacity to understand complexity is minimal, her thought processes are reactive and completely superficial.
Can you give me a concrete example of a comment she has made which is coherent, substantive, backed up by factual information and has a modicum of wisdom associated with it?
I'm a patient man so take your time.
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Drudge/156 (I like responding to his posts because it's so easy)
"The old tired socialist view of spreading the wealth has failed."
That must be why the American people are currently polling a preference for the candidate who says he wants to spread the wealth. If getting elected President is failure, you're setting a very high bar my drudgy friend!
I just love the way you continue with the assumption that most Americans are [b]against[/b] Obama spreading the wealth away from McCain's wealthy friends (who only consist of 1/20th of the population) and towards those who have none at all (everyone else). Most Americans seem to quite like Obama's tax plan, of taxing those who can afford it. Yet McCain himself still somehow manages to interpret a tax cut for 95% of the population as "raising your taxes." He obviously now believes that only his wealthy friends are listening to him any more - and thanks to the economic policies of Bush which he supported, they're getting a lot less wealthy by the day.
It is redistributive, so what's wrong in saying so? It doesn't mean it's socialism, but I've said before the "socialism" label is a red herring - the American people don't care what you call it if it means more bucks in their pockets. My proof? The opinion polls, and the outcome of next week's election, when there will be a redistribution of votes in the Democrats' favour!
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Doug,
If you can locate your browser's cache, you can find the video file (usually by sorting for largest).
Mine is in the home directory/)dot)mozilla/firefox/xxxx.default/cache
But that's linux. I think the windoze system has a fairly easy cache in "temporary internet files" or such...
Once found, you can then "save as" wherever you want to, but, from Drudge????
All the best
ed
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229. At 6:23pm on 27 Oct 2008, DougTexan wrote:
Please, if anyone can tell me how to save this from you-tube and the Obama folowers stealin freedom of information away from us. HELP. Hit the link and listen.
Simplest way I thiink, though there are various video capture programmes for PC's, is to get the latest version of RealPlayer whic has 'RealPlayer Downloader' buit-in.
Can't say how it works if you have a PC, but on a Mac it caches any video you play as it's playing and then you just click 'download' and it saves it to a folder.
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220 proles wrote:
"pure class snottery from effete foreign correspondents and their ilk." ..."ruling class propaganda"...."Very sinister indeed when it serves the ends of American empire as it always does with Duopoly Party candidates like Obama Copacabana" etc etc etc
All - as ever - in one rambling paragraph
Am I the only Private Eye Reader here? That is, am I the only one who recognises Dave Spart?
He's described at urbandictionary.com as follows - "Humourless left-winger whose vocabulary is punctuated with Marxist dialectical jargon. From the fictitious character Dave Spart in Private Eye, a British satirical fortnightly. "
More details are here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_Eye.
Specifically
"Dave Spart – ultra-left wing activist (always of a ridiculous-sounding collective or magazine - sometimes the New Spartsman or the Indescribably Sparty – frequently based in Neasden) who is given free rein to express his views. These always begin "Once again ...", before attempting to lambast the subject of his anger for allegedly constant misconduct, prejudice or general wrongdoing. This very rarely gets further than a few words before it breaks down into a fragmented litany of "sickening... totally sickening... worse than Hitler..." and so on, before being abruptly curtailed by the inevitable "continued on page 94". Since he must take the alternative view on any subject, he often ends up contradicting himself and getting stuck in logical circles, frequently stopping with "Er..." but continuing anyway."
Thought it was only fair to point out that there are - what's the word - 'wingnuts' on both sides.
John (AKA Imperialist Running Dog AKA Revisionist Scum AKA Lackey of the Ruling Classes)
;-)
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ref #217
Well to reply to that. Let's look at a few stories:
On the economic meltdown, I've seen little blame attached to Barney Frank's handeling of Fannie Mae and Fredie Mac which was the biggest contributing factor to the meltdown
On the recent event in Syria little is made of Syria allowing terrorists go through their territory. And the HYS didn't ask Was Syrria at fault for helping terrorists into Iraq?
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#201. eightypercent: "Tell me this. Do you think that, as Obama becomes more familiar to people, the issue of his colour is diminishing ?"
For the majority, probably yes - but (and I don't mean to appear offensive) had it been substantially darker and his facial features more negroid, then I think the answer would have been no. Colour is a touchy subject, but he is pale enough to be "acceptable" and his features are sufficiently "caucasian" to make the issue unimportant. Of course, as you suggest, there will always be some people who will damn him simply for having an African father regardless of the shade of his skin
"And he has shown astonishing personal and political discipline throughout the campaign. Do you think this is generally accepted now ?"
Certainly by comparison to his opponent and the opposing campaign, which has veered all over the place. Both Obama and Biden have kept on message while McCain and Palin have had numerous distractions, some as irrelevant as the cost of Mrs Palin's wardrobe. There has been nothing as insubstantial to dog the Obama campaign. The next few days will be interesting - the thirty minute address or programme which is planned for Wednesday could easily backfire. Voters can be fickle and as Newsweek suggests, even half-heartedly, the result next week might not be what is anticipated. Whatever the result, it simply has to be clear cut, without a shadow of doubt as to who is the winner.
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DougTexan wrote:
Please, if anyone can tell me how to save this from you-tube and the Obama folowers stealin freedom of information away from us. HELP. Hit the link and listen.
Seems like every contrary video, audio or report online that shows Obama in other then the light of a messiah, is gone. Probaly twenty plus times this week I've tried to go back to source of information, post from this location with links in them that are no longer available.
If you can't find anti-Obama videos on Youtube then you really haven't been looking. There are probably hundreds of them (some of them are linked to from within these blogs).
If there are more pro-Obama videos then I expect that is because the Obama campaign has engaged itself with the Youtube generation.
In contrast I wouldn't be too surprised if some Republicans shun the internet as being the work of the devil.
I would like to know how can I save an actual vid or audio from you tube
I don't think you can save a Youtube video to your local file system
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# Whoops ~ Desert Ann
Wasn't Bill Clinton a Rhodes Scholar at Oxford ?
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Aqua 241, am not American, but support you from across the water ... good luck!
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#229 DougTexan:
"Seems like every contrary video, audio or report online that shows Obama in other then the light of a messiah, is gone. Probaly twenty plus times this week I've tried to go back to source of information, post from this location with links in them that are no longer available.
I would like to know how can I save an actual vid or audio from you tube"
Okay does this site have explicit permission from the original broadcaster to make their matierial available for download? If not then I'm afraid the website is liable to criminal prosecution and civil action as is anyone who downloads the material. Basically the site is advocating internet piracy, which is a no, no, just ask the RIAA...
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247 ~ Aqua
From the reports that one hears coming out of the Republican party, they are going to be very busy quarrelling amongst themselves if they lose the election.
I know that I keep on harking back to the 1997 British election - but when Tony Blair won, the opposition was exhausted and fragmented, and the country was in very good spirits until 9/ll and its aftermath changed the optimistic mood.
So there may be a light at the end of the tunnel.
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#229. DougTexan: "Please, if anyone can tell me how to save this from you-tube"
Go directly to YouTube, fo which the URL is www.youtube.com and type in the name or subject which you're looking for. The URL of that clip can be copied and saved. If you need to save the actual clip, then go to Tubesock, the URL for which is http://stinkbot.com/Tubesock/
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229. At 6:23pm on 27 Oct 2008, DougTexan wrote:
Please, if anyone can tell me how to save this from you-tube and the Obama folowers stealin freedom of information away from us. HELP. Hit the link and listen.
Oh, it's that one is it? Well, the words you want are quoted in post 197.icetayoa. Ignore the forst para.
No idea if it's actually an accurate transcript, or even actually by Obama, but I don't see anything in it that's that outrageous given the period he's apparently talking about.
(But then, those of us in the Red Squirrel Party and its affiliates seem to have a more detached view of these things, dare I say.)
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For Doug,
And, further, YaaaawwwwnnnPeace and re-distribution
ed
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Ed or David
Perhaps you can help this foreign observer in these elections, having lived both sides of the water and can possibly translate the conundrum that America and its political rites create..I read....
Educated means elite but uneducated means average.
Republican Conservative does not mean conservative but wasteful, and Democrat Liberal is regarded as socialist but it is not Socialist.
Being Right does not mean being correct and should they be left by their voters using their Right, they will be left because being Right was wrong at this time. So by your logic and choice of candidate, the Right is not right but the Left is right. But your candidate followed Wright who was regarded by many as right, so he left him.
Disregarding the small chance that the Republican Right will win then the Democrat party that will be left is Left and is right too. And the Right being left will be right!. Right?
With left leaning of the Right, and even further right leaning of the Right and vice-versa with the Left, that people have been writing about, then it is easy to understand why many there regard themselves as Libertarian, Centrist or Independents.
They have the same grasp and insight into USA politics as many of us Europeans. Zilch
And you are all casting your votes to elect a President to lead the world.!
God help the US and us.
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An interesting comparison between the paranoid theories on Obama and paranoid theories of certain Islamists in Iraq. A strange mirror image
Paranoia
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Desert Ann (#238) -
I think it's fantastic that you choose to read so much of the British press. You should therefore have a realistic perspective on the election.
I believe that the british press offers a truthful portrayal of the candidates and because you do not like the reality of your candidates situation you choose the preferable option of labeling the british press 'biased'.
The british press does not try to brainwash either democrats or republicans but allows people to make up their own minds. The republicans are losing this election, Obama is ahead in the polls, Palin is inexperienced and a liability.
The british press is not biased. They portray a realistic picture. I just think you are unwilling to accept the 'truth' that the republicans are losing this election. This isn't biased reporting - it's fact.
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The simple fact is that you should not be surprised if McCains wins despite what the polls are suggesting. His victory would not be because what the he has to offer but thanks to the votes of what some analysts referred to as LIVs (Low Information Voters) who constituted 60% of american voters. This group of voters don't read newspapers nor listen to news. They are easily persuaded to change their inclinations at the last minute.
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Pentagon Panel: Biden Was Right, Prep for 'Crisis'
And, there's a videoPeace and preparedness
ed (a good Scout)
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Xie_Ming:
"Is politics the search for power over others?"
Yes.
"Is the goal to advance one's interests?"
Yes.
"Do most seek their own advantage at the expense of others?"
Yes.
"What should be one's duty to his fellow citizens?"
None whatsoever unless it assists the pursuit of the other three.
Unless you're a socialist, or a Red squirrel, of course.
That transcript does raise an interesting queestion:
"the Warren court interpreted it generally in the same way -- that the Constitution is a document of negative liberties, says what the states can't do to you, says what the federal government can't do to you, but it doesn't say what the federal government or state government must do on your behalf."
I can see the point, but I very much doubt if we are going to get any discussion of it. The real decisions on measures adopted by the Federal Government 'on behalf' of the ciitizen,for their benefit, are in the end defined by the composition of the Supreme Court, then, aren't they, like Roe v. Wade.
So the impetus for 'change' might stem from the White House or Congress, but would need to be adopted and accepted by the states.
It's a rather 'lawyerly' view of the political process to my mind, but I can't see anything to get excited about in it. But few are going to look at the argument, or the principle, just seize on the R word, and start screaming the S and M words, aren't they?
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Extract from Obama's latest speech:
'Now, I don’t believe that government can or should tryto solve all our problems. I know you don’t either. But I dobelieve that government should do that which we cannot do for ourselves –protect us from harm and provide a decent education for our children; invest innew roads and new science and technology.
It should reward drive andinnovation and growth in the free market, but it should also make surebusinesses live up to their responsibility to create American jobs, and lookout for American workers, and play by the rules of the road. It should ensurea shot at success not only for those with money and power and influence, butfor every single American who’s willing to work.
That’s how we create not just more millionaires, but more middle-class families. That’s how we make sure businesses have customers that can afford theirproducts and services.
That’s how we’ve always grown theAmerican economy – from the bottom-up. John McCain calls thissocialism. I call it opportunity, and there is nothing more American thanthat.'
Whether it can all be acheived ... who knows, but it is inspirational and offers hope.
(If this breaks house rules then I apologize)
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The ability to speak clearly and eloquently is a necessary asset for anyone involved in the business of persuading others. Of course politicians qualify under this definition. Effective delivery of clear well defined messages indicate something far more important than the ability to persuade. It is evidence of a mind that can think clearly, arrange thoughts and ideas in a logical manner. The opposite is true and one has only to listen to Bush or McCain to understand that.
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Ed,
I closed a sign company because of low sales and the distance I was going for the sales I had. But the shock when I started was taxes, regulations and fees.
In the prices of the signs I sold I had 8.25% sales tax that hurts sales, and is bargained off in my profit to make the sale on occasions.
Add to that a property tax on all equipment (my cutter, computer and programs set me back $22,000) owned taxed 'at value' of approxiamtely 7%,(hind sight I should of leased).
Then the materials in inventory that are paid for at the year end has a 4+% tax. This limits small business from buying bulk and carrying an inventory (my first year was over eight thousand dollars), especially when the property tax on the area (two thousand square foot at $800 month)to store the material in is also taxed.
Add to this the regulation and bookkeeping fees, (my start up cost approxiamately five grand for a one man shop) license and state registry fees (all Taxes) I needed to spend part of a day a week on inventory, record keeping and bookkeeping.
Also quarterly hazardous material inspections (paint booth and disposal) that I must pay up front. Then I registared my truck, (1.1% tax approx.) paid the power (monthly bill taxed at 25% approx.) and set up the telephone (taxed at 35% when you add up all the monthly fees),
Thats my profit, 38 cents on the dollar, and they would have taxed that at 36%,.. but because I'm broke and out of business now it matters not.
I still own the equipment and now do side work out of the house when I can get it. The real crime is I lost all my retirement money before the bailout.
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Doug,
How many copies do you want?
;-)
ed
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# 249 - David C.
Cheers
Interesting analysis
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255. At 7:16pm on 27 Oct 2008, eightypercent wrote:
247 ~ Aqua
From the reports that one hears coming out of the Republican party, they are going to be very busy quarrelling amongst themselves if they lose the election.
I know that I keep on harking back to the 1997 British election - but when Tony Blair won, the opposition was exhausted and fragmented, and the country was in very good spirits until 9/ll and its aftermath changed the optimistic mood.
So there may be a light at the end of the tunnel.
The two cases are not really analagous, though. It seems that an American political candidate from the most local level right the way up to VP does not really have to adopt very much of a cohesive national party policy. Or even stick to some of it when they do profess some adherence.
If McCain wins, there are pretty obviously going to be Palin factions, McCain factions, Evangelical factions and so on and so on. I don't see them ever really getting together. So the light at the end of the tunnel for them will probably resolve into thirty separate miners carrying sticks of dynamite . . .
But then, after the euphoria of finally having won a presidency again wore off, would the Democratic party be that much more cohesive? I rather doubt that too.
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#156
Drudge,
A couple would only pay more taxes if they earned $250,000 each for a total of $500k per annum (married filing seperately). $500k in NYC, not $250k combined. While not the highest income, would allow you to live pretty comfortably. Not a yacht and house in the Hamptons for the weekend comfortable, but a nice apartment, couple of BMW's, nice guns, decent clothes, timeshare in Florida/Mexico, foreign vacations and eat out 4-5 times a week comfortable.
A couple of $250k would be about $4k a year better off under the Obama plan. So should we put you in the Democrat column?
Tax Accountant Sam
If they earned $600k under the BO plan they would pay an extra $3k. Do you really think they would miss it?
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The three Ashleys, a tale...
Worth the effort
Peace to all
ed
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259. At 7:30pm on 27 Oct 2008, watermanaquarius
That left me gasping, but I think it's about right.
Would you like to join the Red Squirrel Party? it's much less complicated there. We've simply left the nuts behind, right where they belong.
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#248
Magic,
If you honestly believe Freddie and Fannie were the biggest factor in the meltdown then I really can't help correct your perception here. However, given that not a single economist has postulated this, even the right wing ones, one has to apply Occams razor and offer the hypothesis that it could have been poor macro economic policy and lack of governance in the financial markets, the two causes most often cited, which were the culprits.
Economist Sam
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http://www.lookingattheleft.com/2008/10/festival-of-obama/
Not a bad site, good pictures of ten thousand or so supporters.
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Sam, don't miss your 'date'
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#25
Dude,
If you trust those photo's then I have to question your eyesight. The scale is so bad even with the poor definition Obama is out of perspective with the rest of the group. Plus he is wearing 1980/90's fashion and they are wearing 70's.
Then again, if you do believe this I have a movie to sell you called 'Who's doin' Palin' which appears to star the Governor of Alaska and rather a lot of Russian soliders.
Sam Jeremy
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Ed (#263), I wouldn't cite either the Bay of Pigs affair or the Gulf of Tonkin affair as being an example of a new administration being confronted with a crisis. It is well known that the Bay of Pigs misadventure was planned under Eisenhower, who was too experienced and cautious to approve it. If there was a "crisis," it was only in Kennedy's being unprepared to deal with the CIA, not with foreign threats.
As for the Gulf of Tonkin, many people, myself included, believe that this was a manufactured incident designed to create a rationale for escalation of the conflict. Two senators were smart enough to see through it: Wayne Morse of Oregon (one of my senators at the time), and Ernest Gruening of Alaska. Alaskan politicians haven't always been naifs.
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Just a thought :
I wonder how long its going to be before Drudge puts up the story of Senator Stevens' indictment ? Its going to ruin the drama he's making of the 2001 radio tapes.
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#29
No.
Simple Sam
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Doug,
Thanks for all that, but I have to note that most of those taxes had nothing to do with federal taxes, which wouldn't be levied on anything except profits (with the possible exception of "inventory", which may be counted as "added value" stock). In my experience, inventory or stock tends to be an accounting item which may go up or down from year-end to year-end, but is usually relatively the same, unless one wants to "fiddle" it a bit to manipulate apparent profit....
What federal taxes on small business do you expect Obama (or McCain) might levy?
Best wishes for health and solvency
ed
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D_C Thanks
Ed, Love the McCheesey
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#162
Water,
I'm a righty, except where current politics are concerned.
Dextrous Sam
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watermanaquarius (#259), that was an amusing interpretation of our politics, which must look absurd to most Europeans. Fortunately, we are not, as you say, electing "a President to lead the world." Even though many people still repeat this fiction, I think our leadership isn't what it used to be, and Europe is stronger than ever. I consider Sarkozy the "leader of the free world" if anyone is.
I would like to see Obama, Sarkozy, and Brown (or whomever comes after him) cooperate in foreign affairs without any of them being assumed to be the "leader."
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First time to comment on this blog, I just feel that I have to commend Drudge52 for his wonderful post on #177
"She [Palin] has fired up the Republican base and she has been very successful. IT was a MASTER STROKE from McCain[choosing her as runningmate]."
"She [Palin] is a great orator and can get a crowd fired up,but unlike Obama she adds substance to all the rhetoric."
> Using Palin and substance in one sentence... it really made my day, seriously.
> I've been reading the comments on this blog for a while now and I've declined to make any comments, seeing as how fellows like Sam, Eightypercent, Simon21, and Self-Evident are more than my betters in arguing for Obama, but that comment from Drudge is... priceless.
> In my opinion, it's better than the squirrels.
Just passing by, and it's 4:32am 10/28/08 here in the tropics!
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#75
Gentlemen,
It is with reluctance that I weigh in on the Squirrel issue.
However I should point out that if the UK had Second amendment rights, and all country folk were obliged to carry a 12 gauge at all times (a 20 gauge auto loader Beretta being permissable for Ladies) then the grey squirrel would not be such an issue, as the invading vermin would be shot on sight.
Yosemite Sam
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cannjc (261)
I do love reading the British press and I do have a realistic perspective on the election: I realize that McCain is probably not going to win. ( I don't say definitely-because I still need to keep hoping!)
But, to illustrate my point that the British press is biased: today there was a story titled "Alaska newspaper snubs Sarah Palin," on this website, but there was nothing on the endorsement of McCain by the Arizona Republic. And none of the other British papers mentioned it, either. This is a very well respected newspaper that is endorsing many Democratic candidates in our local races. If you are interested, you can read it at azcentral.com and it's titled "McCain: A Leader for These Times."
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british-is (#270), you are correct in noting that there is a fundamental difference in the UK and US systems for electing a leader. In the US, candidates for president appeal directly to the people, and those who are most successful at that take over the machinery of their chosen party and remake it to suit themselves. A good example is Ronald Reagan, who (in my opinion) got the Republican Party into the mess it's in today. Another appears to be Barack Obama.
This phenomenon was less true a few decades ago, when most states did not hold primaries. Then, connections with party regulars were much more important.
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# 270 Tufty
"Would the Democratic party be that cohesive"
Who would ever have thought that Tony Blair could impose discipline on the Labour Party from '93 onwards (a task formerly thought analogous to herding cats), and keep them on course until he ruined it all himself by trotting along at W's side over the Iraq War.
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#259. watermanaquarius: "Ed or David
Perhaps you can help this foreign observer in these elections, . . . "
You might care to check the post at #262 - there are still a great many who, regardless of their formal schooling, do not educate themselves about the candidates or the issues. There is exaggeration and hyperbole on both sides, mostly aimed at each other. The United States is neither about to become a Socialist State (think the UK after WWII) nor a Fascist State (think Germany immediately before and during WWII). Despite the heated opinions, it will remain a centrist nation and nowhere as authoritarian as is the United Kingdom today.
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To#255Eightypercent
I sure hope so. I think that Obama has a real gift for uniting people and will help us see that we will need to work together to solve our problems. I have said this more than once:
'Survive together or die alone.'
The Republicans are already in a blood frenzy of rat eat rat and they have not even lost the election yet. As painful as this may be for many people, when/if the Republican party loses this election, it may be their best opportunity to examine the values, beliefs and actions that have led them from an Abraham Lincoln to the likes of George Bush, Carl Rove, Dick Cheney, McCain/Palin and their ilk.
The best thing that may happen for the Republican party, as well as the nation, is for them to lose this election.
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british-ish (#273), out West, we have a local variant, the Douglas Squirrel or Chickaree Party. Surely they would be compatible in a coalition government.
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eightypercent (#251)
You said : " Whoops Desertann, wasn't Bill Clinton a Rhodes Scholar?"
Whoops, eightypercent: You are right.
A better example might have been former peanut farmer, Jimmy Carter.
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ToBritishish
Sorry I think my comment 291 was misdirected but both of you are so rational and I am getting really confused.
I do not know much about red squirrels but I know something about nuts that, though small (minded), can be quite irritating and on occasion even frightening in their intensity.
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Here's something for marbles. I hope she appreciates the first view, lauding the persian model.
I found this an interesting article in that it highlights the differing nature of Islam as practiced across the world. The mysogeny seemingly inherent does not appear to be universal. As someone said recently, it's all about education!
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new day, new twist, new senate seat lost and it's a big-en!
I wonder how this one is gonna be spun. Let me guess, liberal media bias? politically motivated?
Corrupt is just too easy.
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287/DesertAnn
"But, to illustrate my point that the British press is biased: today there was a story titled "Alaska newspaper snubs Sarah Palin," on this website, but there was nothing on the endorsement of McCain by the Arizona Republic."
Dog bites man isn't news. Newspaper bites pitbull, now that's news.
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To#286Samtyler1969
I am feeling seriously annoyed with you.
Can we not leave squirrels to live their own peaceful lives?
At this point it is the nuts that seem to be causing the most problems. Perhaps you would could consider negotiating with a coalition of red and grey squirrels to limit proliferation of nuts for the sake of world peace.
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286 SamTyler1969
The Scottish Squirrel Party does not trust humans to carry guns.
Our red squirrels, however, are to be armed with napalm grenades to wipe out the American invaders.
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# 291 Aqua ~
eightypercent agrees with you onehundredpercent
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"287. At 8:38pm on 27 Oct 2008, Desertann wrote:
cannjc (261)
I do love reading the British press and I do have a realistic perspective on the election: I realize that McCain is probably not going to win. ( I don't say definitely-because I still need to keep hoping!)
But, to illustrate my point that the British press is biased: today there was a story titled "Alaska newspaper snubs Sarah Palin," on this website, but there was nothing on the endorsement of McCain by the Arizona Republic. And none of the other British papers mentioned it, either. This is a very well respected newspaper that is endorsing many Democratic candidates in our local races. If you are interested, you can read it at azcentral.com and it's titled "McCain: A Leader for These Times."
One doesn't mean to burst your bubble but Arizona newspapers do not have a wide profile in the UK
And since McCain comes from this area it is not altogther news that the local rag supports him.
It might be news if it didn't
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The BBC is reporting the arrest of 2 young men in Tennessee planning a killing spree of black people culminating in the assassination of Obama.
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thats one good old fashioned assasination attempt down! call me paranoid but anyone expecting any more?
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286.
I saw a special on our little furry invasive compatriots, and must say found it a little distressing to see how much gusto the English defenders showed in shooting them. Especially when one mentioned the fact they were Americans made it that much more fun.
The poor little Yanks can't help it that they're better, stronger and tougher than the English. They'd doubtless be overjoyed to return to the good ol' US of.. if you just offered them a lift.
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So I guess the Ted Stevens conviction means another Senate seat for the Democrats, and another day where McCain's message is shoved off the front pages. I almost feel sorry him, almost.
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238. At 6:35pm on 27 Oct 2008, Desertann wrote:
cannjc #207:
I have been following the coverage of the Presidential race in the British press for months. I read the Timesonline, Guardian, Independent and BBC news daily. I can hardly remember an article or commentary that was positive towards McCain or Palin.
You can hardly call the kind of coverage in the British press, fair and balanced. Sorry.
As to your comment that Mrs. Palin has no foreign policy/travel experience: Well, what did that obscure Governor of Arkansas (Clinton), have? Or the former actor Ronald Reagan? Answer: none."
really I always thought Reagan had been Governor of California, the most prosperous and biggest state in the Union.
Was that not true?
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ref #272
Sam I suggest you read this
http://chronicle.augusta.com/stories/100108/edi_477790.shtml
But I would like to see when the BBC put any of the blame on Barney Frank and Chris Dodd.
Two of the worst people in congress who won't be gone Jan 20 2009
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I understand that while Ted Stevens has been found guilty of his crimes, he might still be re-elected to his senate position.
Just who is running this asylum?
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"293. At 8:47pm on 27 Oct 2008, Desertann wrote:
eightypercent (#251)
You said : " Whoops Desertann, wasn't Bill Clinton a Rhodes Scholar?"
Whoops, eightypercent: You are right.
A better example might have been former peanut farmer, Jimmy Carter."
Would it? I was under the impression that Carter had a distinguished naval career and had been Georgian politics for some time, during which he actively fought against segregation.
He also had an excellent education.
Some might consider he was well qualified for his future role
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DougTexan wrote:
http://www.lookingattheleft.com/2008/10/festival-of-obama/
Not a bad site, good pictures of ten thousand or so supporters.
Wow, who would have guessed that there would be supporters of socalism and hippies at an Obama rally! :)
On the same note I wouldn't be surprised to see supporters of terrorism (groups who bomb abortion clinics) at a Republican rally.
Each party has their extreme wings!
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bk9061 (#296), my prediction is that the Republican Party will quietly urge Stevens to resign and concede the election (it being too late for a replacement candidate to mount a credible campaign), in the best interests of the party.
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Long-time acquaintance, 106-year-old Nick Ballasone, voted today by absentee ballot. I believe there is only one other person of his age in the United States who is registered to vote.
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#298 aquarizonagal
Unfortunately, your grey squirrels are carriers of squirrel pox which kills our native red squirrels.
They cannot co-exist.
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This afternoon I listened to part of Obama's speech in which he focused on the need to unify the country and work together to overcome the problems we are facing. A few minutes later I watched a GOP political ad depicting Ahmadinejad, Chavez, Obama and parading Islamists who were, presumably, readying to march down Pennsylvania Avenue.
The contrast in substance and tone of these two events highlight the judgment and ethical values of the two candidates - and the two parties - in a way that will hopefully be evident to most Americans.
While I think it is premature to write McCain's political epitaph, I certainly hope people will not fall for the same fearmongering and demonization of opponents that characterized past elections and gave us the inept Administration that saddled our country with a horrible fiscal and economic crises, rising unemployment, a crumbling infrastructure, dangerous healthcare and education crises, and a culture of irresponsibility, greed, and intolerance that is destroying the fabric of our society.
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Aqua ~
You will be pleased to hear that we have been able to reach a squirrelly bloggers compromise on this site.
Ed looks after the reds up north - and I look after the greys in my garden down south.
Admittedly the greys aren't as cute as the reds but it's good to have them skedaddling around the place.
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~ and Sam can keep his 12 bore to himself
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Desertann wrote:
But, to illustrate my point that the British press is biased: today there was a story titled "Alaska newspaper snubs Sarah Palin," on this website, but there was nothing on the endorsement of McCain by the Arizona Republic. "
So to sum up:
Paper from Palin's home state doesn't support her as a Vice President candidate
Paper from McCain's home state DOES support him as President.
Personally I would have expected the candidates to get support from their home state! Now you would have a point if the local papers of Obama's or Biden's home states supported McCain/Palin over the "home" candidate and THAT was not reported. However, to my knowledge that hasn't happened (it certainly hasn't been reported in the UK) ;)
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Saw this in the story about Stevens:
"Despite the guilty verdict, he is not required by law to drop out of the election or give up his seat.
And there is no rule barring felons from serving in Congress, so if he wins he will be allowed to stay in the Senate."
Perhaps its considered as 'experience'?
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british-ish # 273
Thank you for your very kind offer to join the Sciuridae.
As an omnivore I dont mind the nuts and vegetables, but will leave the fungi and insects that emerge to you.
Sam # 286
We appear to be doing it already!
"In June 2008 Britain's The Daily Telegraph reported that squirrel was among the most popular meats to cook with and serve at dinner parties. Specifically, they are cooking with the gray squirrel, which is being praised for its low fat content and the fact that it comes from free range sources. Some British are eating the gray squirrel as a direct attempt to help the native red squirrel which has been dwindling since the introduction of the gray
squirrel in the 19th century".[wiki]
Yours diurnally,
wma
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To#297Stephenderry
This is not news.
Arizona newspapers have always endorsed McCain but notice how late that the Republic has waited. They have also published a lot of articles that skated very close to anti-McCain and have heavily endorsed a lot of Democratic candidates for our local offices.
Go figure!
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Simon21(306)
I was referring to his foreign policy experience, not his governorship of a large state.
What we really should be comparing is Obama's and McCain's experience and, in which case, McCain would win-hands down.
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And, as of the time of posting, Drudge still hasn't mentioned Stevens. Will he ever ?
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Aqua 308: the same old nuts! But lets hope that changes ...
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The Ted Stevens story is quite amazing. His is a senator from the biggest state in the USA, which incidentally is not California. According to the BBC, it appears that a convicted felon can stand for the Senate. Which seems odd if it is true that convicted felon cannot vote (is this the case?). So at least he may not be able to vote for himself.
How the hell was he allowed to get himself on the ballot given this case was pending. I know innocent until guilty and all that, but at 84 he didn't need it, and the state, and his party surely didn't need him.
All politician's should have a limit on the number of terms the may serve (themselves).
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To#299Oldnat
Can we not negotiate first?
I believe that it is really the nuts that pose a threat. I realize that nuts are an important part of squirrel economy and an important source of protein but there must be some place where reasonable beings can reach consensus.
Can we not leave weapons aside for the moment while we talk?
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306, Simon.
"As to your comment that Mrs. Palin has no foreign policy/travel experience: Well, what did that obscure Governor of Arkansas (Clinton), have? Or the former actor Ronald Reagan? Answer: none."
Bill Clinton was a Rhodes Scholar.
Ronald Reagon served eight years as governor of California, the most populous state, and hardly the backwater that Alaska is (and you can see Mexico), and was involved in politics long before that.
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Carter had a fine education. He was a nuclear engineer, but preferred to bill himself as a peanut farmer, American politics being what they are.
He also had a good heart. Unfortunately, he lacked the talent all recent good presidents have had: the ability to lie quickly, convincingly and to good effect. FDR was the master at it.
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ref #318
This is not a comment on guilt or innocence.
With all the irregularities of this case, especially the prosecutors withholding of evidence and not allowing all of Stevens witness; this case is ripe for appeal
Normally I would want the Senate to be rid of this King of Pork. But I am more scared of Harry Reid 60 majority in the Senate
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314 DV: that is the McCain campaign in a nutshell (pun intended - see the many Squirrel remarks), negative from the start, no hope, no strategy except fear. They have nowhere else to go and it is too late to change. They deserve to lose for not offering the people something better.
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How is the William Jefferson case progressing? Another case you couldn't make up - if it hasn't been, of course. Another clinging on to office for all he is worth.
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DougTexan wrote:
Please, if anyone can tell me how to save this from you-tube and the Obama folowers stealin freedom of information away from us. HELP. Hit the link and listen.
Seems like every contrary video, audio or report online that shows Obama in other then the light of a messiah, is gone. Probaly twenty plus times this week I've tried to go back to source of information, post from this location with links in them that are no longer available.
I don't think they are gone; it is some weird effect of YouTube. I think elsewhere someone mentioned that you could cut and paste the link into your browser and access the videos that way when clicking on the link didn't work. I've had trouble with them too, not just linked in blogs, but in news reports as well.
If cutting and pasting doesn't work, try visiting YouTube and searching for them by topic or number (the number should be visible in the link).
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oldnat (#313), yes, but please note that it is the Eastern grey squirrel, which is likewise an invader in the North American West.
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To#315Eightypercent
So happy to read this!
I just knew that the real problem involved nuts and not those squirrels. It is always important to look beyond the surface.
You and Edinglehart shall be awarded a joint peace prize for your work.
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326 Allmy, I think Simon was making the same point you are. He was responding to Desertann. Just helping ..
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To#323Selfevidenttruths
Amen!
Somehow we need to stop their proliferation. IF you have any good ideas please post. Mine are unprintable.
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seanspa (#324), whether a felon can vote is a matter for each state to decide. In any case, I believe he was on the ballot before he was indicted, and the election will certainly come before sentencing. The trial isn't over until sentencing and final paperwork by the judge.
The reason felons are not automatically excluded from service in Congress is that each house of Congress is the judge of the qualifications of its members. The Senate may refuse to seat him if he is reelected.
And by the way, watch out for the 'postrophe posse!
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238/306
At the risk of basing my information on uninformed internet sites, Obama would indeed be the least experienced President to take office. By a remarkable coincidence, he will take the title from another politically inexperienced lawyer from Illinois, Abanazer Linksome, or something like that. Who the heck remembers that guy!?
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I've just stumbled across this - why is congress so loved. Never head of it before, but it makes interesting reading and seems non-partisan (shock horror - both sides are at it).
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#325 aquarizonagal
We've all been having a lot of fun with "animalist parties", but there is actually a serious threat to the native British red squirrel (now largely confined to Scotland) as part of maintaining bio-diversity.
Hence the restrictions all continents have on the importation of non-native species, which didn't happen in the 19th century when the grey squirrel was imported from America, and allowed to escape into the wild.
It does carry a disease to which the native species is vulnerable. A human analogy might be the effect of European diseases on native human populations.
Anyway, red squirrels are totally opposed to british-ish's pandaism.
:-)
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#192, FauxGeordie,
Ah, silly me... All these posts I've been reading for days now... need for speed narrows one's mind, no sense in denying that.
signed,
Baldrick (this time)
But even worse, no Squirrel Hood Spreading the Wealth to be found anywhere in a parallel universe, that's a tragedy...
Luckily, we still have Brevard, NC.
#216, Aqua,
I don't think the pirates will sail out this week. Maybe in the two months after Nov 4th, not now... it just would be too obvious.
Just some 'subtleties' to bring a little more fear in the hearts of some voters.
(Although, killing a family is as inhumane as it can get...)
But #241 says it all, I like it.
Wouldn't it be fun to see Arizona turn blue? A little chance, but still... enjoy that idea for a week. I would, if I were an Arizonian.
#259, Water,
How did you find the script of Clockwise II, hahaha.
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322 80percent: Why would Drudge mention Stevens when he can cherrypick a couple of the closer polls today and run with that, or that story from 2001 which is neither here nor there because for the rest of the week the McCain campaign is going to be on the socialist/big government/you can't trust line.
No hope just negativity. The polls will probably close some, but I think, to use an American metaphor: it is the bottom of the 9th, he is 3 behind, 2 out, but no one on base, ie: he needs a least a base hit and three home runs ...
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To#313Oldnat
Sorry!
I missed this and my posts were silly. Unfortunately these are things that happen when humans think they know better than nature.
We are doing our own battles here with buffle grass, which is very invasive and a terrible fire hazard in our arid climate. Among other invasive species such as this we battle daily.
Forgive me for being flippant and not understanding a serious threat to your ecological balance.
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You don't need to make anything up!
Seen on the CNN.com website recently.
"A Palin associate defended her, saying that she is "not good at process questions"....."
Good decision making is all about Process! If anyone doesn't understand process, how can they take in information, process it, analyze it and subsequently make a smart decison?
"No don't tell me too much, I'll just take a guess." How can anyone defend this nonsense?
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#332 Gary_A_Hill
Thanks. I didn't know that. I suppose we're all more sensitive about our local circumstances.
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"This is not a comment on guilt or innocence.
With all the irregularities of this case, especially the prosecutors withholding of evidence and not allowing all of Stevens witness; this case is ripe for appeal
Normally I would want the Senate to be rid of this King of Pork. But I am more scared of Harry Reid 60 majority in the Senate"
But you are clearly suggesting that if this alleged evidence and witnesses were produced he would be found innocent. Not even going to bother asking you what it might be as you will doubtless say to go look it up. So a simple question, do you believe Stevens is guilty or innocent? simply your opinion one way or the other please.
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Gary, thanks for the info on felons. I realise that Stevens has not been sentenced yet, and that his name probably went forward before the trial began. I can even see why someone who believes that he is innocent chooses to run even when he knows that the case is impending. What I don't understand is why a political party was prepared to take a risk over this. Stevens must have quite some hold over the party.
By the way, I am normally one of those keen to promote the correct use of the aphostrophe. I also like to think that my spelling is quite good. However, my typing is not, and my keyboard has a number of sticky keys (although I hasten to add that I do type 2 handed, 2 fingered to be more accurate).
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# 264
The point is to get beyond name-calling and labels and start to think.
The Obama interview suggests that this begin at the community level.
For active church people, I would suggest at the congregation level.
It is possible for the grass roots to talk to each other.
For isolated souls to sit in front of TV's and be manipulated is to avoid talking to each other and forming community consensus.
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Aqua 335: am working on it, but I fear my ideas on this may be unprintable too ...
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#342 aquarizonagal
Apology not required
The animalist theme has been fun, and I regret having brought seriousness to it.
Let's face it, there's little left to say about the US election, and we're all waiting to see what US voters actually decide, and filling the blogs with nonsense while we wait.
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Ref 328
"But I am more scared of Harry Reid 60 majority in the Senate"
Personally, I am much more concerned about the third assassination plot uncovered today by the FBI than the probability of Harry Reid having a 60 seat majority in the Senate. If most Americans conclude that the current makeup in Congress is responsible, at least in part, for the gridlock and dysfunctionality that has characterized work in Congress the past few months, it is up to most of us to decide what is best for our country.
Hopefully all the crazies are kept where they belong: in jail!
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or 2 base hits and 2 home runs etc ...
... I am being kind, I think it is worse than that!
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Just saw a discussion on the election on Newsnight, the BBC's 'flagship' news and current affairs programme, between Brad Blakeman, Republican strategist - and David Frum, former speechwriter for George W Bush.
Typical BBC liberal left wing bias etc etc etc etc etc etc
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While we are on the topic of the Financial Times, here's a chilling graph about the proportion of debt in the US compared to the US GDP. It scares the hell out of me.
Apparently it has something to do with fractional reserve banking, but Capitalism, or the 'sucka' as Bush called it, can't carry on without it.
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ref #350
I have to agree with you there.
What is particlarily scary; is that these people seem incomptent. What happens when someone most dangerous and intelligent makes an attempt
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I am sorry to say this. The BBC is exporting its racial bias as we see everyday here in the UK. Your comments are pure racial biased
On your blod of US election, all you wrote was to support McCain.
Even the headlines contain 2 pictures of McCain and 1 of Palin despite you having story and name of Obama written on all three headlines
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#352 john-In-Dublin
Never mind that BBC trivia.
I know you don't have snakes in Ireland, but do you have squirrels, and what kind are they?
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I was somewhat startled to find multiple reports on the net that "Schwarzenegger endorses Obama". Of course the MSM is so uniformly rabidly pro-Republican that they're doing their level best to suppress the story, but there seems little doubt that it's true. And when this development leaks out, it'll surely prove to be the final nail in McCain and Unable's collective coffin.
You can read all about it at, for example, http://www.oldamericancentury.org/bb/index.php?showtopic=18695.
What next - mooses (meese?) endorsing Palin?
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
302/303
Violence from the far right isn't new, and if McCain loses, I expect it to escalate.
Members of a Unitarian church were gunned down during a children's play this year because, as the gunman said, they were "too Liberal." And they were all Caucasian - throw race into the mix and watch out. News reports indicate that "our" KKK is in league with neo-Nazis and it sounds as if they're upset by current events.
305
What makes you think Stevens will lose? I hope he stands aside, but if he doesn't, he could still win or at least have more influence than you might imagine.
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dceilar 353: with regards to fractional reserve banking, go to youtube and search for 'money as debt'. Very interesting. I am not sure if it is simplistic or not, but if it is even close to the truth then it poses some big questions.
Sorry if you are already aware of this. If there are any financial specialists out there who have an opinion I for one, would be happy to hear from you.
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#355 Doydorcas
"I am sorry to say this", but your comments are largely incomprehensible.
I don't know whether your accusation that the BBC is racist is because you are a white supremacist, or a black panther.
Please let us know, so that we can know how to contradict you appropriately.
What is your attitude to squirrels?
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I'm going to have a try at settling the 'experience' argument.
An individual can 'experience' something. For this to be 'experience' - i.e. something which increases their knowledge and improves their decision making - they need to learn from it, rather than just have the experience.
In a number of recent high pressure situations, Sen McCain has responded in a manner which suggests to me that while he has undoubtably had more 'experiences' than Sen Obama, these 'experiences' haven't necessarily improved his judgement. In short, he doesn't have a cool head when a cool head is called for.
I'll take the kid with the cool head and fewer experiences - because I will always favour good judgement over time served.
And yes, I respect Sen McCain's long public service (I was gutted when he was forced out of the primary contest as a result of unspeakably awful tactics in 2000), I just don't think his 'experiences' have improved his judgement in the areas we need right now.
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BK (296),
One more on the road to a filibuster-proof Senate...Further perspective on Stevens from the moose's mouth
Peace and prosecution
ed
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By the way.
Squirrels?
You're all nuts.
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362 revolvinggrandma: succinctly put and seconded.
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#355. Doydorcas - Could you put that in more understandable English - I don't see that the BBC has any "racial bias". Perhaps you'd expand on your statement.
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What gives with the Appalachia comment? Would you feel comfortable writing, "Around Harlem this afternoon, customers at a diner enjoyed their fried chicken while reading the FT endorsement"? Why are white, working class Americans always the butt of everyone's jokes? Look at Obama and Murtha's comments about "rednecks" and bitter gun-clinging religious maniacs. Could they get away with saying the same things about blacks, Hispanics, Indians, Asians, or any other racial or socioeconomic group? And how come these white, lower middle class voters who have doubts about Obama's background or patriotism are portayed as racist bigots, while outright violent and offensive statements and displays of protest surface every day against McCain/Palin?
Sincerely,
Applachian in Argentina
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I expect a constitutional congress to be called shortly to discuss a more perfect union of squirrels. May I request that the moderate-extremist-crypto-liberal position, although held by few, be given all due consideration.
In nuts we trust!
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So why do Appalachians and mid-westerners get more obsessed about religion and guns than the rest of the country?
Guns are inherently dangerous and religion is inherently nonsensical. But put the two together - people with very strong irrational beliefs who just happen to be armed - and you have a very dangerous situation indeed (for an example, look at Afghanistan...)
What's the worst an elitist liberal can do? Throw books at you? Fear of liberals is irrational, fear of conservatives seems to me very well-founded...
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#368 selfevidenttruths
OK. The Scottish reds will sign up to that, but I can't see it working if the Republican/Imperialist Eastern American Greys insist on pre-conditions before they'll talk to any others of squirrel-kind.
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if there is racial bias at the BBC I can't see it ...
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Re #367.
Yeah, i agree.
damn those blacks, always tring to keep the white man down.
Get a grip will ya?
BTW
"Appalachia is a term used to describe a region in the eastern United States that stretches from southern New York state to northern Alabama, Mississippi, and Georgia."
also are you trying to state there are no black people in this area? no black people in Gerogia, holy cow!!
also fried chicken in your context is a racist term, ie the no fried chicken jibe at tiger woods when he won the Us open (i think)
In this case egg muffins is not exactl an incendary statement is it? Or are you just picking nits?
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All,
Stevens seems to have been on the losing side of a knife-edge campaign in Alaska anyway. Senate polls summary here
Peace and comeuppance
ed
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AQdeCdeUS at 367:
I agree with the first part of your post. Whenever anyone throws up a lazy stereotype it is helpful to substitute another one and check that people are capable of wincing at what they've just said.
That said, I'd ask you to look at the context of the 'bitter' remarks that Sen Obama made. His point, as I interpreted it, was about people being excluded from future opportunity and current economic success, and that those at the top of the tree should stop dismissing huge numbers of americans because they make the best of what they do have.
I think his language was clumsy, and I completely understand that as a result he may have caused the offence he was trying to condemn. But for what it is worth, this latte sipping, liberal, urbanite got a well deserved kick up the rear end from his remarks. And I'm grateful you reminded me of it. There a are lot of people of all creeds and colors who have been sidelined down the years. There's no excuse for allowing that to continue.
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367 AQ: I was'n't going to respond to you because you are probably a hopeless case, but something you said made me think. It was to do with patriotism: why is it that Americans are so eager to question the loyalty of their fellow countrymen? I am English, and though I know that there may be a few individuals who may want to subvert my country, my general outlook is one of implicit trust. As much as I may dislike certain political philosophies that are current, I cannot see that the British public, nor the American, nor any democratic country would elect a government that would subvert it's own people. Democracy implies faith in the wisdom and goodness of humanity, and requires that we give voices we feel unsure of a chance. That is unless you think you are the only one who knows the truth.
Btw: The television footage I have seen of the Appalachians and their people has been sympathetic to my lights.
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the politics of fear is corrosive : (
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I'd like to point out that I've had a lot of experience too, but I ain't qualified to run my village, let alone the metropolis of Wasilla.
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have all the moderators been wipe out by a squirrel borne virus?
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368. selfevidenttruths wrote:
I expect a constitutional congress to be called shortly to discuss a more perfect union of squirrels. May I request that the moderate-extremist-crypto-liberal position, although held by few, be given all due consideration.
In nuts we trust!
Dear me, while I've been away things seem to have developed apace in international squirreldom.
I think a constitutional congress would be a very good idea, and I don't see anything against it. It's an idea that should lend itself to the Republican Party, only time is a bit short for them.
I'd suggest it should coincide with the meeting of the G8 + (however many it is now) proposed for after the election later in November before we all go into hibernation. We have of course, much to offer, having had many centuries of experience in prudent investment and acorn management for the long term for the benefit of other squirrels. (It takes a hell of a long time for those oaks to get growing from little acorns, you know.) Call that socialism if you like, we call it common sense and caring for the environment.
In the light of recent developments highlighted in posts 369, 302 and 304 (not to mention Sam) I think I should point out that we in the Red Squirrel Party have always supported gun control and would be very keen on arms limitation talks (without preconditions, otherwise nothing will ever get done) with other species, even the grey ones, especially those in Syria, North Korea, Pakistan, India, Russia, Israel and Iran.
But then, I have to admit to my sorrow we also have a small lunatic fringe, the size, of course depending on our grooming. I think we have to dissociate ourselves from the threat of the use of napalm. (We demonstrated against that in the Vietnam War, but sadly some people think we are still out of our tree on issues like these.) We must make it absolutely clear we reject terrierism.
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ah, seen as there is signs of life, I should add to 375 that I am aware that one could mention the nazis, a failure of democracy. We should remain ever vigilant of our freedoms and humanity.
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375/selfevidenttruths
Patriotism - as distinct from nationalism - is a peculiarity of the United States. It involves the worship of the concept of the United States - a federal republic of independent states of free men, a melting pot of tolerance and freedom where anything is possible. This is symbolised more than anything else by the flag - there is a quasi-religious aspect to the way it is revered and almost worshipped, with arcane rituals which must be followed, and failure to respect the flag being the greatest sacrilege an American can commit.
In Europe we moved away from all that stuff after the Nazis. We can take pride in our countries, but usually only for football matches. Our veterans are politely respected, not treated as gods, and we rarely refer to our political leaders as "commander in chief". Flags are ceremonial, not integral.
The rest of the world too has forces pulling against patriotism - the fact many borders were arbitrarily drawn by colonial powers, and religious and tribal identities often supercede national identities.
I'm not saying Australians are not proud of their country, or Jamaicans, or Chinese. I'm saying that America has taken patriotism to a totaly different level. There is almost a cult of personality, with the Stars and Stripes standing in for a Glorious Leader. Every country has flags and anthems and history and heroes, but only America has mythos - America is the only country where the country itself is personified into the national hero.
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The moderators may seem slow, but the BBC is a whole day behind in their World Series reporting.
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A bill of nuts?
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To exserviceman
That picture of him looks very suspect. I seem to remember a similar picture of him with his relatives in Kenya...
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I was going to go on and contrast the ideals that the cult of America should stand for (freedom, tolerance, inclusiveness) with the attitudes displayed by its most vehement and vocal adherents, there is some irony (if not hypocrisy) there I feel.
But it is nothing new, you could say the same about Christianity, Islam, Marxism...
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After watching John Mccain I have to say that I couldn't agree to disagree with you..... that we agree to be agreeable and more than you to diagree more......Yeah Mccain 08 WOOOOO!!!
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385: Quite. But it still interests me that just because you hold certain views you become un-american. Has'n't a recent US politician suggested hearings into just this issue? It strikes me as so dangerous. And a subversion of democracy. What is it democracy about, if not the acceptance of plurality?
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You don't become un-American. You become labelled un-American. It's a different thing, and it is totally subjective.
Essentially it's just name-calling, the worst insult someone can think of to throw at a proud American.
When Reverend Wright preached "God Damn America" nobody listened to the rest of his sermon, nobody reported the point he was actually trying to make, about freedom and repression and rights and race.
All that mattered was that he had been Disrespectful to America, and he became painted as a lunatic extremist, a stereotypical "angry black man." From that point, he was the one that was damned, and Obama by association. All for exercising his freedom of speech to try and make people think again about a genuinely important issue.
For my money, too many Americans are far to precious about their dumb flag and "proud nation" and far to blasé about the outrages against basic human decency that affect their fellow citizens on a daily basis.
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AP (#357), Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger has not endorsed Obama. He endorsed McCain a long time ago, and he has not changed as far as I know. His wife, Maria Shriver (who is a Democrat) endorsed Obama (also a long time ago). This is all old news, and not even newsworthy unless one of them changes at the last minute.
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#369
Stephen,
By all accounts I am an elitist liberal. With a lot of guns.
Sad Sam
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#298, #299
Team,
I would be willing to accept a compromise whereby grey and red squirrels agree to live in harmony and not touch each others nuts unless invited to do so.
Diplomat Sam
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#307
Magic,
And who of the Augusta Chronicle Editorial Staff is a recognized Economist? What is that, County wide? Or Township?
Sad Sam
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#156: The irony of your statement is that those people/couples making $250K per year in NYC and California, ARE Democrats (both are Blue states) and Obama is expected to take both states. So, apparently, they don't mind paying more taxes under Obama.
I honestly believe that most of the people harping about Obama's plan are people who don't even make $250K. It's not that they would be affected by his increases, it's that the argument against it is the only thing these Republicans really have without honestly admitting that the root of their argument is that they don't want no black man running their country. There, I said it!
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#296 bk9061
Thanks for the link! Did anyone read to the bottom. Apparently felons can't vote, but it's okay if they run the place.
"Despite the guilty verdict, he is not required by law to drop out of the election or give up his seat. And there is no rule barring felons from serving in Congress, so if he wins he will be allowed to stay in the Senate."
Geeeez!!
Jeff
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267: Now, that said, how much were you able to write off of your taxes?
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Hey Sam.
I'm curious about your opinion on Michelle on this point.
If, as has been reported, she makes more than 250k a year (as does Barack apparently) do you think she (or he for that matter) will secretly vote for McCain in order to avoid the socialist tax hikes?
Worth raising the point!
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Typical, I link to a story earlier showing Islam more tolerant of feminism than maybe often recognised, then this comes along.
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357, Arthur.
In the first place it is Maria the California governor's wife who endorced Obama. And... did you notice the date? February 2008!
The poor meese can't endorce Palin. They're dead.
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Re 397.
I think Islam is more tolerant than we think and definitely more tolerant than is protrayed in the media.
It would be unfair however to put some tribal islam in with the more modern islam.
a lot of these dirt poor african countries are made up of superstisious, poorly (if at all) educated people. Religion for them is everything, they are unable to see past it. If this happened in America or England then you would be a lot more worried.
I am of course not defending it, it's disgusting but i'm sure the majority of muslims around the world would be horrified by it also. Most of these atrocoties happen in countries where a majority or of the populace are extremely poor and uneducated.
Thats like saying after Powell's Obama endorsement that republicans can look past the party and see the best for the country and then linking to Rush L's website. You can't tar everyone with the one brush.
Education is the key. Then these people can see what parts of their religion to take literally and what parts have no place in modern society.
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Some of our comments above recognize that there is a political religion within America, a secular religion, wherein the people are encouraged to worship themselves.
An aspect of this is called the "public discourse".
Anybody what to go into more detail?
It seems to me that the shift to "mass democracy" of the Nazi or Markist-Leninist type can be quite rapid when communication among citizens becomes converted to reception at rallies or as isolated watchers before a television screen.
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Gary (#389), you are of course absolutely correct in stating that the Governator has not (yet) endorsed Obama.
But I never claimed that he has. If you had clicked on the link I provided, you would have found that the Schwarzenegger in question was identified as "Mrs Arnold Schwarzenegger" aka Maria Shriver. My "moose endorsement" reference was another clue that my post was not to be taken entirely at face value.
Frankly, my cunning plan was to write something that might make JohnAAA or Vivaelcidvicious or MagicK fall off their chairs or hit the roof - ideally both at the same time. Your sensible, calm and factually impeccable response was therefore a little disappointing.
To be perfectly serious now, I think it would be a great and wonderful thing if a - let's not beat about the bush - white Republican icon were to follow in Colin Powell's footsteps regarding endorsing Obama. Ideally the endorsement would come from Nancy Reagan or Barbara Bush or Henry Kissinger or even Bill O'Reilly. I guess such an endorsement might be happening "right now" in a parallel universe, but I don't think it's going to happen in the one we happen to be stuck in.
So I tried to be more realistic and come up with a very senior Republican figure who might possess the combination of courage and smarts and far-sightedness to emulate Powell. (And let's face it, the best thing that could happen for the long-term health of the Republican Party is a landslide defeat so that the opportunity is created for the wiser, cooler Republicans to toss out the religious fundamentalists. Forever and ever...)
To cut to the chase, the man most likely, in my opinion, is Arnold Schwarzenegger.
But perhaps you have a better, more realistic suggestion. James Baker, perhaps?
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271. At 8:06pm on 27 Oct 2008, SamTyler1969 wrote:
#156
Drudge,
A couple would only pay more taxes if they earned $250,000 each for a total of $500k per annum (married filing seperately). $500k in NYC, not $250k combined. While not the highest income, would allow you to live pretty comfortably. Not a yacht and house in the Hamptons for the weekend comfortable, but a nice apartment, couple of BMW's, nice guns, decent clothes, timeshare in Florida/Mexico, foreign vacations and eat out 4-5 times a week comfortable.
A couple of $250k would be about $4k a year better off under the Obama plan. So should we put you in the Democrat column?
Tax Accountant Sam
If they earned $600k under the BO plan they would pay an extra $3k. Do you really think they would miss it?
It is obvious you have never lived in NY with a high cost of living. A decent 2-3 bedroom apartment could cost almost $2000 a month and that is Long Island where it is cheaper to live. I won't even go there with how much people pay for rent in NYC and the surrounding areas but you get the idea.
A couple earning over 250K would either have to own a shop in NY or commute to a job in NYC. Most commute to work from L.I, NJ, Conn and PA. It is not cheap to commute to NYC most people use the train system. After being hit with the Obama tax, they face also depending if they work in NYC, the state tax and the NYC tax. They would be worse off on an Obama plan. Yes, anyone making $600K won't miss it but those who are near to $250K borderline it will affect them especially if they have a family of 2 or 3 children.
Most people who have houses in the Hampton s are very well off. The average NYer can not afford a second house especially on Long Island. A decent house (prior to this credit crunch) in a decent area with good schools would cost the average NYer about $500K.
This plan would not be advantageous in NY and the surrounding metro area because it would especially hurt small businesses. It is very hard to live in NY in prosperous times, let alone when the economy is tanking.
It all depends on where you live. Obama's plan does not take the into consideration regarding the high cost of living.
No, I will not be voting the democratic ticket no matter how people are trying to spin it. The whole point of socialism is giving hand outs. Most people want a decent paying job, they want to work...and the ability to live in a decent house and decent area. When I mean decent I mean less crime. Not having to worry if you will be shot today or mugged.
How is Obama's plan helping those living in the poor area's get out to live in decent area's in NYC? I think Obama's plan need to focus on that...not on taxing to uphold the failing welfare system. All people want is a decent job, a decent place to live...not hand outs.
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402. At 07:40am on 28 Oct 2008, Drudge52 wrote:
How is Obama's plan helping those living in the poor area's get out to live in decent area's in NYC? I think Obama's plan need to focus on that...not on taxing to uphold the failing welfare system. All people want is a decent job, a decent place to live...not hand outs. "
True but they need to live while trying to get one.
And as for the high cost of living in New York - oh dear.
But that is not Obama's doing is it.
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Steven (388),
And, very much to your point, he was warning about the error of nations acting as Gods.I would be proud to be a member of his congregation.
Peace and perspective
ed
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Arthur,
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Interesting also to note that the Economist has plumped for McCain (against GWB) in the past.
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#396
Everyone,
I think she will do what Obama has said, pay and be happy to. And like me I think she'll vote for Barack.
Taxed Sam
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Simon21 wrote
True but they need to live while trying to get one.
Having lived and worked in Europe, their welfare system encourages many not to work.
So they stay where they are,in poverty.
Giving out handouts is just a drain on the economy.
I will reiterate.People need real jobs not handouts.
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Peterib, perhaps you should have a "hystory" lesson in relation to the following:
That model, in terms of economics, translates hystorically into: stagnant economy with negligable rate of GDP growth, low productivity, protectionism; high unemployment and heavily unionised and regulated labour markets; very high budget deficits as % of GDP because of unchecked "social justice" programs spending, high personal and corporate taxation that destroys any incentive for higher individual productivity; huge bureaucracies and suffocating business regulation; low business and household investment, etc.
As a start I suggest researching the "trente glorieuses"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trente_Glorieuses
and the "Wirtschaftswunder"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wirtschaftswunder
In fact, in these "golden years", social democratic western Europe (UK included) enjoyed a higher growth rate than the US (Hobsbawm, The Age of Extremes).
And don't get me started on budget deficits!!!
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# 356 oldnat wrote:
"#352 john-In-Dublin
Never mind that BBC trivia.
I know you don't have snakes in Ireland, but do you have squirrels, and what kind are they?"
Green
Except for the Guinness ones, which are black with a white head
And if you think we don't have snakes, you've never been here at election time
;-)
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407
Sam, as i thought. Just though i'd better run any Michelle based questions past you ;-)
Just wanted to make the point that the Obama's are literally putting their money where their mouth is. they believe so much in this plan they will cost themselves thousands just to implement it for the good of those 95% less fortunate than them.
I wouldn't mind making an off topic point.
I'm Irish, living in Australia for the past 4 years or so (for the sunshine mostly!)
In my 25 years in Ireland we did go through spectacular growth for the last 10 or so years. As a consequence the standard of living there is particularly high. I have benefitted hugely from this. Growing up my family was poor, we did do better for our selves and got to be comfortably middle class in the end, for my part health care was free in a way, we were taxed something like 1.5% so it was paid for however as a non tax paying child i got free health care.
when i was old enough i went to college. I did a 4 year BSC in Information Technology. The total cost for the 4 years was approximately 1600 euro, not sure what that is in $'s but its about 1000 pounds. And no i didn't miss a 0. My friend who was less fortunate than my family paid 15 euro a year and got a quarterly grant of maybe 250 euro towards expenses. He wasn't on a scholarship or anything, if your total parentalincome was below a certain level, roughly 28,000 euro you were eligible for this grant and reduced fees. People can say what they like about the Irish government and most of it will be true but this move was genius and helped make our country.
Last time i was in ireland there were 2 tax rates, i'm sure someone can give more accurate figures but it's late and i don't want to look them up, up to around 30k was 20% anything over was 40%, we got tax allowances of course but the more you earned the more you paid. Of course there were gripes but nt in the same vein as in america, we were more annoyed as we had a pretty big surplus.
So we paid our taxes and we reaped the benefits which allows me to et an excellent job due to my education.
If this is socilaism then paint me red and call me Vlad, i'm in comrade. But of course it's not socialism though, it's capitalism and good decisions. There are no state farms in Ireland, no dachas, no stifle on innovation and no limit to making money. If you went to Ireland and called anyone a socialist you would be laughed out of the country.
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"Having lived and worked in Europe, their welfare system encourages many not to work." Where, when?
Complete rubbish, being a european i can tell you in Ireland you need to work up credits and they do run out. Also when you "sign on" you need to show that you have been actively seeking work.
some people don't want to work sure but the majority are mortified to be getting handouts and would love to work and most of them do come off the welfare and then start contributing for the next poor guy to lose his job to china, or through bad luck. then they start again and they get a job and contribute for others. We look after our own over here. I was unemployed for a time and i needed the money from welfare to live, thankfully i then got a job and have since contributed expenentially more back into the system and i'm happy to do so.
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I agree with everyoneiscrazy, I was on benefits for a while, I couldn't wait to get off them and the government couldn't wait to get me off them. The number of hoops you have to jump through, the debilitating ritual of standing in a line to "sign on"' every other week, amongst some very scary people... I don't know why anyone would put themselves through that if they didn't have to.
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ArthurPutey (#401), Oh. I did follow the link, but didn't recognize your intent. Sorry for spoiling your scheme.
In any case, Schwarzenegger has been quite civilized toward Obama. He is not your regular rabid Republican, and I think he will get along with Obama just fine.
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Alaska-me-hardplace (#394), you are missing the point here. The point is that the Senate itself is the judge of the qualifications of its members. If Stevens is reelected, the Senate will have the power to discipline hime as they think appropriate, including to expel him. This is a reasonable rule. One can otherwise imagine scenarios in which a Senator (or Representative) is put on trial for political reasons as a means of defeating a candidate who cannot be beaten at the ballot box.
In this case, Senator Stevens was tried in Washington, D. C., which is overwhelmingly Democratic. The result may well have been different had he been tried in Alaska. If he is reelected, I would think it reasonable that the Senate consider allowing him to remain in the Senate while appeals, although I am guessing they hope he is defeated so they won't have to deal with it.
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Gary, it's certainly an odd situation. The legislative branch appear to be saying that they can't trust the judicial branch to behave in a judicious manner.
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Everyoneiscrazy said
Complete rubbish, being a european i can tell you in Ireland you need to work up credits and they do run out. Also when you "sign on" you need to show that you have been actively seeking work.
so if your description is correct why over the last few years in the UK that a person out of work has to prove he or she is actively seeking work and just yesterday Gordon Brown announced changes to the incapacity benefits to prevent the system being abused.
There are 2.6 million people in the UK on incapacity benefits and the government has already estimated that 1 million could be capable of going back to work.
I am not against people getting assistance when they really need it from the state, but creating the sense of entitlement is not the way for the US to go.
There are some of those who claim benefits who have no intention of seeking work and will do all they can to take advantage of the system in the UK.
Welfare can be a trap.In your case you used the system the way it was meant to be used but unfortunately some do not and the UK government is trying to put that right.
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At 3 FinMember wrote:
'Obama is a stirring speaker who gets his points across clearly.
Macain often stumbles and mispeaks. He needs a teleprompter and can't even read it properly'.
And yet oddly this video [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ek5aVYNi5U] shows the opposite, and this one [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpGH02DtIws], or this[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ae-Ak9WuUio], oh and this one [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sh6Gx1KrvTw].
But unlike Justin, and the FT, I think the ability to give a speech is less important than the ability to do the job. On that mccain wins hands down.
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seanspa (#416), perhaps it seems odd to some, but I don't consider it odd at all, under our system of government. The Congress is a separate branch of government, co-equal with the other branches, and the Senate is an independent entity within the Congress. It has always been the case that each house of Congress makes its own rules and is the judge of the credentials of its members. It's not about trust, it's about jurisdiction and prerogatives.
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I should add to my preceding post that "trust" was not foremost in the minds of the founding fathers who authored the US Constitution. They mistrusted authority, so designed a system with "checks and balances" to prevent a concentration of authority which might become autocratic.
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To#349Oldnat
I had other commitments and could not comment to this post until now.
I hope you will see my words.
Never be reluctant to protect your land and ecology. If each of us does not speak out about what harms our own small piece of the environment, no one else will.
Your information was something unknown to me but now I know more. Knowledge is so important and the sharing of information is one of the greatest powers that we have.
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Gary, thanks for your thoughts. I guess that I just cannot get my head around how members of congress can seemingly be (potentially at least) held to lower standards than the population at large.
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#415 Gary_A_Hill
Thanks for the explanation! I know they can't put all the details in a news article, but it seemed to be a much simpler situation.
I guess my incredulity mostly comes from seeing these morally bankrupt so and so's getting away with the prize regardless of being found guilty for taking these bribes.
Sort of like how a lot of Bush's buddies in Washington can be found guilty of crimes, and somehow the issue always fades to the background, and you never hear of any consequences for their actions.
Or how I won't be surprised when the Wall Street CEO's come out of the economic debacle all shiny clean and flush with cash. I believe their salaries are already out of line with reality, even without 'bonuses'.
I have a feeling that even if Stevens does get wacked from the Senate, that he'll still have his nice house and massage chair. If they won't make him do time, they should at least fine him the value of the bribe, or take the stuff back and let him sit in his old chair.
I know in this case it's relatively small potatoes, but it is becoming ridiculous how these people seem to slide through the cracks. Like McCain/Keating. Bad judgement? Slap on the wrist? Make him give back the money!
Maybe we can sic a herd(?) of squirrels on them at nut gathering time ('tis the season), and see who comes out singing soprano? I don't care what colour; the greys are bigger, so maybe they'll gather more nuts.
Thanks again Gary,
Jeff
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408. At 12:31pm on 28 Oct 2008, Drudge52 wrote:
Simon21 wrote
True but they need to live while trying to get one.
"Having lived and worked in Europe, their welfare system encourages many not to work.
So they stay where they are,in poverty.
Giving out handouts is just a drain on the economy.
I will reiterate.People need real jobs not handouts."
So you think people like living in poverty?
This is your brilliant insight is it?
Have you ever lived on the fantastic amounts you get on beenfits?
The holidays in Monaco - the bentleys?
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seanspa (#422), I don't think it's necessarily true that the standards for members of congress are lower than for the population at large. This is a matter of opinion, however.
The Senate has a long tradition of disciplining its members, summarized in the following linked document:
http://www.senate.gov/reference/reference_index_subjects/Censure_vrd.htm
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Drudge.
Ireland is not a part of the UK, hasn't been for quite some time. Brown makes no laws for us.
So your basic arguement is flawed. Also the UK is not Europe.
"Having lived and worked in Europe, their welfare system encourages many not to work." how many European countries did you live and work in?
If it is only one or even two then it's a massive generalisation. I visited South africa once, going on your logic Africa has a significant white population and the reports of famine and war are greatly exagerated.
Do you see what i'm getting at?
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418/TheFirstRalph
No-one is 100% perfect all the time. I'm sure if Kennedy or Martin Luther King had lived in the youtube age, there would be videos of them fluffing their lines during tiring campaigns or tours.
But show me a speech from McCain with the eloquence and resonance of Obama's 2004 convention speech, or "A More Perfect Union." He's been making speeches twice as long but has never made one half as good.
In fact McCain almost disproves the flipside of my theory that no-one is 100% imperfect all the time! He has had a successful political career, I do not wish to deny that, but certainly compared to his opponent, communication is not his strongest suit.
As for your comment:
"I think the ability to give a speech is less important than the ability to do the job."
There are lots of qualities one could look for in a presidential candidate; experience, initiative, ideas, knowledge, open-mindedness... but I would say that the one that ought to be given greatest weight (and most often is) is communication. The best leaders are invariably the best communicators. There is no point having good ideas if you cannot communicate them, no diplomat ever succeeded by failing to communicate, and how do you expect people to follow you as a leader if you cannot convince them - by communicating.
Obama is an excellent communicator - which is why he was a good community organiser, a good lawyer, a good politician and why he will (probably) be a good President. After all, a President is just a community organiser with a bigger community.
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427 Stephen:
Those videos, and the many others you can find on YouTube suggests that Obama isn't the 'excellent communicator' that you think he is. Obama can deliver a pre-written speech brilliantly but when the autocue fails, he's asked a difficult question, or something distracts him he is poor.
To be a great communicator you have to be able to excel both at set speeches, and in less controlled environments.
Obama, the communicator, is like so many things surrounding the man a myth.
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Obama is the excellent communicator we can all see and hear he is. I think you must be in denial!
He's been out on the stumps for a year now, communicating his message, every single speech of thousands caught by TV cameras. He's had three debates and several other high profile speeches throughout his career where his performance has been flawless.
There is no man on Earth under the scrutiny Obama is under who makes so few mistakes (and contrary to your suggestion, NO-ONE makes no mistakes). The fact you have to search out his mistakes on Youtube testifies to this - if you want to see a John McCain stumble, just switch on the tv and wait 15 minutes.
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How does Justin know what people in Appalachia are saying? His news sources don't even know Appalachia exists. FYI, Justin's credibility is sufering along with the rest of the Obamamedia. It would be fair and just for Obama to list Justin and the MSM as campaign contributors.
Now, let us have a word from the obamamesiah and a prayer to our Great Leader:
Media-heads at the feet of Obamamessiah
17"Do not think that I came to shrink the size of government. 18For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one dot above an 'i' will by no means pass from the law or government till all of my audacious dreams are fulfilled. And then I will build more.
19"You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'We are responsible for ourselves,' but we in truth rise or fall as a collective; the fundamental belief that I am my brother's keeper - unless he lives in a hut in Kenya.
20"And I say to you that whoever goes to war or tortures another without a progressive cause, shall be in danger of the judgment by the rest of the world. And whoever says to another the word 'unilaterally' shall be in danger of the judgment by the UN council.
[...]
39"Therefore do not be like them. For The Obamessiah knows the things you have need of before you ask Him. 40In this manner, therefore, pray:
Our Player, Barack the Messiah,
Washington be thy game.
Thy welfare come,
Grabbeth all thy guns
So we will think that we're all in heaven.
Taxeth away our daily bread,
And giveth to those identity groups who trespass against work.
Make us not a prosperous nation,
For all wealth is evil,
And thine is the shakedown with all power and fury.
Obamunist forever. Amen.
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Let me say it more plainly. The only way the MSM can restore the credibility of journalism is to go out of business, as they are slowly but surely doing, and new people take their place. The MSM speeded up their own demise this election, and new journalists with integrity have already started to take their place. There are two reasons why the MSM came out for Obama. 1) When your candidate's ideology is Marxism, stifling debate is necessary. You want people to know only "the current truth." 2) There is some speculation in Appalachia that the reason the MSM sold out all their principles of journalism is because they want the "Fairness Doctrine" bill promised by the Democratic Party. The "Fairness Doctrine" will put alternative sources of news out of business. The MSM has been bleeding profits and readership ever since free market competition took away their monopoly on the news in the 1980s plus the rise of Internet. The "Fairness Doctrine" will probably create anti-free speech laws for the Internet, too.
Justin is an editorialist, not a journalist, but his sources are definitely biased media who are fighting for their jobs in the free market, or who are Marxist revolutionaries. The effect on the street of the media bias has been to stifle genuine discussion of the issues between neighbors. People speak in whispers because they are afraid. The atmosphere is charged with fear and intimidation of free thoughts. There is pressure on voters to vote against their will. It feels Orwellian or like the rabbits on the hill of Watership Down. Of course, not everybody is intimidated, and too bad for the Democratic Party that voting is still done in secret. I imagine that is something they will try to "change" in the future.
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Evidently British belief in values, not least honesty and integrity, what they indicate regarding a person's character and what this portends for the future if the man is President, is generally about as shallow as in the U.S. today.
Thus we have had general BBC disinterest in Barack Obama’s record of lies and deceptions, his shabby associations - , Jeremiah Wright et al, and insignificant records in both the Illinois and U.S. Senates. Sound bites with an impressive orator’s voice evidently count for more than substance.
And now a leading British business newspaper joins Colin Powell in his dismally banal reasoning for supporting Obama! Pathetic! No wonder our world is in trouble!
Well, good luck, Justin, you and your team have done a lousy job of providing the full picture of these U.S. election campaigns. I had expected a great deal more from the BBC than the likes of infantile CNN, Wolf Blitzer and co, but evidently when nations abandon a moral compass their citizens' belief in and adherence to values and standards go down the drain, and with that also their ability to discern and judge wisely.
Rob Porter
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The Sermon on the Mile High Mount
1Then it came to pass in the Land of Entitlement that the Word became Change and the Change became Hope and the Hope became Change You Can Believe In. 2And The Obamessisah went about all fifty-seven states, teaching at their Caucuses and Primaries, healing malaise among the poor in spirit, and preaching the gospel of Progress. 3Then His fame went throughout all the land; and they came to Him all people who were afflicted with Bush Derangement; and those who were hopenitized; moonbats and troofers; and He wooed them. 4Great multitudes followed Him - from Chicago to Jersey, and beyond the Hills of Beverly.
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Robloop, firstly thanks for agreeing that FirstRalph is talking nonsense, Obama is indeed an impressive orator.
You should be grateful the BBC has provided these forums for every right-wing nutjob (and indeed, if they wanted or needed to, left-wing nut job) to voice their own private conspiracy theories about Obama (or McCain). By reading these forums, I think I've read every negative thing it is possible for anyone to allege about a man, some of it blatantly fabricated, some with perhaps a hint of truth about it.
The only facts that are 100% undeniably true and 100% undeniably negative about Obama are:
1) He did meet Bill Ayers several times, who is indeed a former terrorist
2) He was close to Tony Rezko, who is a convicted fraudster
3) He did renege on a promise to accept public campaign funding
4) He has run more attack ads than any other candidate in history
I don't think any of these are particularly harmful; Bill Ayers has morphed into a respected scholar who knows pretty much everyone on the Chicago political scene; Rezko did wrong but Obama was not involved in any way, and if anything is a victim of his friend's folly; his spending on attack ads is proportionate to his spending on policy ads, unlike his financially restricted opponent; and while breaking a promise is hardly unusual for a politician, given where Obama is today you have to suggest that rejecting public campaign funding was actually a very astute judgement call, and worth the slight credibility hit.
Of the rumours which are laughably untrue (I have probably missed out twice as many!), he's not a socialist; he's not a non-US citizen; he's not a terrorist; and he's not an Arab or a Moslem and even if he were, that should not be seen as a negative.
He did attend Pastor Wright's church, but that's not a negative, nor is Wright's "infamous" speech, if you listen to more than three words of it. Obama is a liberal and he has promised to spread the wealth, but those are not negatives either, outside Conserv-o-land. He is relatively inexperienced, but has not let that hold him back, and his willingness to engage in diplomacy with terror states rather than goad them into war seems to be the epitome of common sense.
Obama's "record of lies and deceptions, his shabby associations" are a fiction, something Republicans repeat to each other endlessly until they are all convinced it must be true. Equally damning stories could easily be fabricated about McCain by imaginative liberal smearers, building on several well known events in his lengthy history, but for Democrat supporters to do so would be very off-message, this year the Left is all about hope and positivity. That is what America seems to be looking for at this time, and the Obama campaign is the only place selling it.
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Stephen? Here's the raw data...a transcript of eloquent Obama bemoaning the restraints placed on government in the US Constitution by the founders:
If you look at the victories and failures of the civil rights movement and its litigation strategy in the court. I think where it succeeded was to invest formal rights in previously dispossessed people, so that now I would have the right to vote. I would now be able to sit at the lunch counter and order as long as I could pay for it I’d be o.k. But, the Supreme Court never ventured into the issues of redistribution of wealth, and of more basic issues such as political and economic justice in society. To that extent, as radical as I think people try to characterize the Warren Court, it wasn’t that radical. It didn’t break free from the essential constraints that were placed by the founding fathers in the Constitution, at least as its been interpreted and Warren Court interpreted in the same way, that generally the Constitution is a charter of negative liberties. Says what the states can’t do to you. Says what the Federal government can’t do to you, but doesn’t say what the Federal government or State government must do on your behalf, and that hasn’t shifted and one of the, I think, tragedies of the civil rights movement was, um, because the civil rights movement became so court focused I think there was a tendancy to lose track of the political and community organizing and activities on the ground that are able to put together the actual coalition of powers through which you bring about redistributive change. In some ways we still suffer from that.
end quote
now, if you are not a baby boomer, I suggest you grab one by the collar and have them translate some code language. This is clear. In Obama’s America, we’ll finally be able to break free of the “constraints that were placed by the founding fathers in the Constitution” and in so doing, achieve “social justice” through “redistributive change.” Vote for Obama if you are frustrated as he is that you can't implement Marxism because that nasty US Constitution stands in your way. Chavez declared the same wish for "change" in the US not long ago. Chavez said it is time to "change" the US Constitution. You agree with him? Vote O.
Look, I don't care if you are a communist. Go make a country somewhere, and you can be Great Leader of it. Nobody is stopping you. There's plenty of islands with oppressed reptiles and local fauna. Just leave my country alone or pay the price. If you touch the Constitution it will fry you just like the evil socialists in Raiders of the Lost Ark. (Go watch it if you don't believe me.)
Obama has had NO scrutiny from the MSM, much less vetting from the Democratic Party. I've never seen anything like it.
And FYI, guess who created and maintained segregation with Jim Crow laws? um, the Democratic Party. Guess who fought them? um, the Republican Party.
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How could I forget. Here's a hope message:
He that lives upon hope will die fasting.
Benjamin Franklin
On "spread the wealth is good for everybody" Obama:
"With all [our] blessings, what more is necessary to make us a happy and a prosperous people? Still one thing more, fellow citizens--a wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government, and this is necessary to close the circle of our felicities." Thomas Jefferson: 1st Inaugural, 1801. ME 3:320
On the USA copying Europe and the wish for a Messiah-King:
"I am astonished at some people's considering a kingly government as a refuge. Advise such to read the fable of the frogs who solicited Jupiter for a king. If that does not put them to rights, send them to Europe, to see something of the trappings of monarchy, and I will undertake that every man shall go back thoroughly cured. If all the evils which can arise among us from the republican form of government, from this day to the day of judgment, could be put into a scale against what [France] suffers from its monarchical form in a week, or England in a month, the latter would preponderate." Thomas Jefferson to Benjamin Hawkins, 1787. ME 6:232
On Socialism:
"Were we directed from Washington when to sow and when to reap, we should soon want bread." Thomas Jefferson: Autobiography, 1821. ME 1:122
On the Constitution:
But a Constitution of Government once changed from Freedom, can never be restored. Liberty, once lost, is lost forever.
John Adams
On Democracy:
Democracy never lasts long. It soo