Pilot in tailspin
Following this now infamous mess up I am still thinking about the various thoughts expressed on the blog on McCain people and their legitimate and less legitimate views. As is so often the case, I see religious folk are stepping in to soothe feelings.
Meanwhile I am fascinated by the claim repeated here that McCain was a bad pilot - telling metaphor or what?
This is the week he needs to pull out of a tailspin. And where does that leave Mrs Arab? Where did she hear it? What does she mean by it? She is probably not a bad person -- just misinformed. For whom will she vote?
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I'm glad to see that the religious folk are stepping in to soothe feelings. They're always so helpful.
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McCain may be seen in public deploring such attacks but on the background his campaign people are shamelessly firing up the Republican base with race poison. His willingness to win the much coveted US Presidency even on outright lies just goes to show what kind of a man he really is.
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I would argue that there is a very fine line between being "misinformed" and "bad," and that this woman crossed it long ago. There is no ethical justification for being so grossly misinformed: not merely in her belief that Obama is an Arab, but in her sickening worry that an Arab as a president would be a bad thing. The latter belief is, I admit, widespread, but to be so confident as to say it on national television...
She is not merely misinformed. She is racist.
McCain ideally, should have said:
"First of all, no. Obama is not an Arab. Furthermore, he is a decent family man, who I happen to have disagreements with on policy and temperament. An Obama presidency is not something to be feared, though I'm wouldn't be running if I didn't think I'd be a whole lot better at the job. [applause] But I just have to say one more thing. It scares me a little, that we're so scared of 'Arabs.' One day we'll probably have a President of Arabic complexion and ancestry. I hope. I want you to think about that, and I don't want you to be afraid of it. [pause] I just hope he or she will be a Republican. [trademarked-manic-McCain-chuckle]"
McCain said some of that. But he didn't get the second part. In fact, he implied (without meaning to, I'm sure) that being a decent family man and being an Arab are mutually exclusive. If McCain really wants those swing voters, why didn't he just say something like the above? Something that no one, NO ONE respected enough to be featured in the media would have the ability to attack? Something that truly showed a presidential temperament?
There are no bad people. There are, however, bad actions. One of those bad actions is racism, an action which corrupts the entire person, until they may be mistaken for bad. That woman is such a person. And McCain should have noticed.
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When November comes and if the polls hold true, the inquests will highlight three manoeuvers that put McCain into his spin. Choosing Palin, the Dash to Washington, and Stirring the Rabble.
The Palin choice was the riskiest. McCain chose to whip up the base, instead of reaching out to the middle ground. Perhaps he calculated on hoovering up disgruntled Clintonphiles, but once the campaign was underway the Clinton factor just faded into the background.
At least Sarah Palin has livened up the race (as well as the SNL ratings). Here is a VP candidate on steroids; running through a career arc lasting months rather than the years it takes most politicians. One month of rave reviews and one month of hubris. She even comes with a ready-made investigation. It usually takes presidents a few years before they get pulled up for something.
She's burned brightly but seems doomed to return to hunt moose or become a right wing chat show host.
Still wildlife's loss is America's, and the world's, gain.
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McCain needs to be seen doing more to stop these attacks - I doubt it will help him win, but at this rate he needs to be preparing himself to look like a gracious loser if he wants his political career to remain intact. Also 3 weeks is a long time in politics, if something bad about Obama come out (something thats actually true) then McCain could still win. Lets hope that doesn't happen...
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It makes one wonder who is really in control of McCain's campaign. It would seem that Palin is being directed by other people, rather than McCain.
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eightypercent:
Absolutely. A few words from The Little Mosque on the Prairie will, I'm sure, reassure and calm the Republicans.
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The past of the candidiates doesn't really matter very much, good pilot-bad pilot is unimportant in this election- Using sp as an attacker and stirring up unintelligent voters with questionable information and distortions is wrong and if gop has no real plan to rescue the economy and attaking the opponets character is their only possible chance to gain some advantage they will only show their ineffective image to undecided voters. The people impressed by these negative attacks will vote gop no matter what.
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Justin, you're stirring that melting-pot again. Stop it!
I can't bear to read all those unfounded accusations, all that hearsay, all that 'evidence' yet again.
(And I mean from both sides!)
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Len wrote:
"Still wildlife's loss is America's, and the world's, gain."
Oh, I don't know; I should think the world's wildlife can heave a collective sigh of relief, too.
Except for moose (meese, mooses. meeses? Whatever) and polar bears silly enough to carry on living in Alaska, of course.
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Inspite of its curious posting date, the Tim Dickinson piece will resonate with many perceptions out there and does put meat on the bones.
Even if only 25 percent is factually correct, the military roadmap and a good deal of the domestic, matches my perceptions of character and track record.
The former reinforces the point that the McCain persona, *I know* and *I am*, does not wash in regard to his self procamation as being the messiah Commander in Chief in waiting.
The latter........ Mmm, I have previously flagged concerns about Cindy McCain well being.
At 72, I wonder what is in store post 4th November? A difficult one to get a handle on. Personally, along with a mega top to bottom purging of Congress, I believe Congressmen and women, including Senators, ought to have a stipulated retirement age.
Time for some gardening leave?
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Thank you to Len # 4, for putting it such good perspective. Nice one.
Now, a word for all those who fear baddy, baddy socialists : In London, the injection of Government money in return for shares to restore banking confidence has just been confirmed.
The British Chancellor of the Exchequer, a sober man of the left, said a few minutes ago "We want to return these banks to the private sector because Governments should not be running banks".
Even European socialists are capitalists.
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So now McCain has added religious bigots to the mix. You had better win Obama, if for no other reason than to stop this perversion. I supported you for intellectual reasons before, but now I support you to keep us from slipping back into the dark age of puritanism.
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The only forward for McCain is to campaign on the real issues: these may not be his strong suit, but anything else will be punished more severely.
In fact, I think we are now looking at what is the likely result before the exaggerations of the final weeks, that is Obama by 5-7% nationally and at least 320 ECVs. McCain is not Reagan, nor Obama Carter, and this is not 1980. There will be many twists and turns yet, but I think we have a very clear snapshot of where people are at.
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I've been pondering over the weekend.
On the one hand, I know and like many Americans, and when I have visited I've always been pleasantly impressed with the country. It's generally a more polite country than the UK, in my experience. One of my wife's colleagues stayed with us a week or so ago and was one of the most articulate supporters of the Republicans I've met. Not a word of anger towards Obama, not a trace of right-wing sneer; he just thought that the policies proposed by the Democrats were wrong. He also thought that McCain was a good man who needed the Right to get elected, and he's hoping that post-election they'll be dumped. Neither of us were very hopeful of that.
On the other hand, there's a huge amount of anger displayed, apparently, in the US itself. So are the media really displaying the truth, or do the vast majority of people not really care that much? Reading the blog here makes me wonder; for all the well-reasoned argument, there's a frightening level of stupidity displayed as well.
Were I to have a vote, I'd be looking at what each of the candidates did in the last decade or so. I'd also be looking at the way the campaigns have been run. From this last point alone I'd not vote McCain; anyone heading a campaign that accuses a US Senator of "palling around with terrorists" or continually tries to talk up Obama's midle name as some 'proof' of his un-American intentions deserves to be firmly rejected.
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It's sad to know that some people just can't step away from the labeleing. Calling someone an "Arab" obviously should not be a put-down. Even in countries with oppresive or villianous governments, the everyday citizens should not be villified. After World War 2, we saw so many common German & Japanese citizens that did not like what their government was doing and were just as victimized as the citizens of other countries Hitler smashed up. Put-downs never put down anyone but those who speak them.
After all the mud-slinging and derogatory comments by McCain and Palin, it seems hypocritical that McCain will defend Obama's character when it really comes down to the wire.
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Most Arabs in this country are Christians, and seeing as George Bush Sr and W both have strong ties to the Saudis, the line of attack is simply meant to stir up raw emotion and fear in order to give racists another reason not to vote for Obama. Palin's own nondenominational religion could be construed as extreme with visiting witch doctors praying over her.
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Mark,
From the rumblings coming from camp McCain, it sounds as though he's going to propose more cuts on capital gains taxes.
Someone needs to point out to him that capital gains taxes are paid on PROFITS, and, once more. he is putting the cart before the horse.
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The more interesting question for me is who will Bill and Hillary vote for. I'd say McCain. As the next Presidency will likely be a failure, virtually a certainty I'm sorry to say if the tyro Obama wins, a McCain failure would give Hillary a better shot in 2012. By then the voters will be so fed up with the Democrats the pendulum could swing back hard the other way. How many of his empty promises will the Republicans tick off four years from now when not a single one of them is fulfilled? Don't think things could get worse than they are already? We might jump out of the frying pan into the fire. Nuclear war with Iran and Pakistan? The Great Depression II. The North Polar Ice Cap gone forever and the South Polar ice cap melting? What's left, an outbreak of bird flu tha will kill 3 million Americans?
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Oh, PS on the "Arab" lady. Whether she is "bad" or not is irrelevant. Her speech is racist and McCain's defense of Obama was very weak, implying that "Arab" and "decent" were opposites.
On Sunday Palin didn't correct the crowd when she asked (rhetorically?) who were the "bad" people and they yelled "Obama!" Then she went on to talk about terrorists who hate America--see where this is going?
The "Arab" thing comes from Rush Limbaugh. He is putting it out there that Obama is an "Arab-American." Yikes.
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Perhaps Sarah Palin leading a mass reading of the Bill of Rights would start her next rally on a surer footing.
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'campaigning' by McCain/Palin -have the republicans been taking lessons from Mugabwe on how to win an election?
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I'm sure it really doesn't matter whether or not McCain was a good pilot. Unless budget cuts to pay for the bail-out are especially harsh he won't be expect to fly AirForce One himself.
You're all doing very well !!
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18, eightypercent:
That's OK. It represents some sound economic thinking for a change.
After all, all those bright sparks who invented the wonderfully fictitious 'financial instruments' are now unemployed, so manufacturing some equally fake and illusory temporary profits for businesses to take advantage of the proposal should be very easy for them.
And they can all take a percentage cut, too. Back to work, folks! McCain helps ease unemployment in the financial sector!
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I do wish that those bloggers who have selected "socialism" for their current term of abuse - and of which we heard much over the weekend - could see a full recording of the press conference that the British Prime Minister and Chancellor have given.
Particular points which I noted :
Firstly, the PM stated firmly "Businesses should be built around work, enterprise and acceptable risk taking". That's not socialism, it's good capitalism.
Secondly, he pointed out that, particularly in America, a lot of of money never appeared on balance sheets, leading to the current exposure of worthless assets.
Thirdly, he implied an undercurrent of urgency in other Governments taking action. I see that Germany has done this in the last few minutes.
He has coined something of a phrase by emphasising that this is the first financial crisis of the global era, which has the implication that we are all going to have to look way beyond our navels if progress is going to be made.
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Besides (apparently) being a bad pilot, he dropped tons of bombs on innocent civilians, in a very questionable war. Nevertheless, his captors saved his life (he would otherwise have drowned) and allowed him to live. Imagine what you would have done to him if he had done the same to your community. He still calls them "gooks". I don't really understand the heroism in all that.
He strikes me more as an angry, frustrated little man, and his campaign of slander and hatred illustrates that.
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21:
MAII: I am astonished (like some others) to be almost agreeing with you! The same is true of Obama and the Democrats, surely? Neither camp has really dared to grasp the nettle of what effect this crisis is going to have on any of their plans.
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for me, the Republicans are going to have to seriously re-think their ideas and party image/ideology. I mean how out-dated is all this agression, short-sightedness and, bluntly, racism. The far-right neo-cons are always going to vote Republican even without their Presidential Nominee (and esp. VP Nominee) trying to stir up some kind of rabble. I don't even know what to compare it to, medieval Britain?
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18, eightypercent:
It's just occurred to me that neither of us is thinking like a politician.
It could be, of course, that McCain knows perfectly well that that proposal won't actually involve any expenditure by the taxpayers for at least the next four years. . .
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Justin:
You have yet to address Obama supporters who call any critic: A Racist.
People like Jackforge and All the Marbles throw that out all the time
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I'm hoping that McCain (and especially Palin) do not get in, however the "five crashes" claim appears to be an urban myth, debunked by [Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator] McCain was reportedly in personal danger, not watching dispassionately, during the aircraft carrier accident. Apparently a missile fired from another plane caused the catastrophe which was nothing to do with him.
Selecting Palin at a time she was under investigation for behaviour that would be unbecoming in a VP and then allowing her to try to link Obama with terrorists in the public mind seem to me to show a profound lack of judgement on McCain's behalf. If he approved Palin's comments (and he is meant to be in charge of his campaign) his apparent shock over the way his supporters have swallowed this propaganda shows extraordinary political ineptitude, or is it just hypocrisy?
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It really doesn't matter wether Justin is for Obama or mcain European and Asian opinions counts for very little in America. Fingers from around the globe are being pointed at the USA as the cause of financial turmoil globaly. Other countries should be willing to realize that the raw greed in their financial systems that caused them to buy into the American system caused their problems. Let's hope whoever is elected can do something to help correct the worlds financial problems. It jst seems to most people outside America that the world would be better served by an Obama presidency.
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So McCain relied on nepotism to avoid being thrown out of the armed forces, finished near bottom of his class, is a serial womaniser who committed adultery and was responsible for a serious financial scandal. What a national hero! I think it's become plain with the reprenensible campaign he's fought that with him it's always been McCain first.
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#21
Marcus,
Did you miss the rallies yesterday? The Clintons are campaigning hard for Obama / Biden. All in swing states, they are now connected closely to the ticket with implicit promises being made for a cabinet role, perhaps health. I think you have to take them at their word and believe that they put their country and beliefs before personal gain.
A lot of Reps want to think the Clintons are against Obama, because it may be their only hope of winning now. A sudden irreperable split in the Democratic party. I wonder if they cling to this because the politics of Reps has become essentially self centered and that this is the way that they think, 'me first' clothed in false patriotism.
Perhaps a more likely scenario is Biden steps down in 2012 (he will, after all be 73, too old for the role) and Hilary becomes the next veep. Given the parlous state of affairs 4 years of modest economic growth and getting out of Iraq would probabaly see the ticket through. Then Hillary takes over in 2016 for one or two terms, she'd be young enough. After all, after this election it's probably going to take the Reps as long as it took the UK Tories to start to look electable.
Politician Sam
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I don't know exactly where the woman read that Mr. Obama was an Arab, but if the New York Times is correct then the story started with a man with a possibly unbalanced mind who has also made claims that all people involved in the bankruptcy courts were Jewish. That is the kind of person who supports Mr. Mccain.
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Senator McCain has good experience but is not showing the flexibility and change that America really needs at this critical juncture. Obama resonates with the voters with his charisma and his determination to give the middle class and the poor a far better future. His constant emphasis on the economy, health-care and on bread-butter issues have galvanized his supporters in the Democratic party, young and old. Bill and Hillary Clinton are campaigning actively for him. This is a real boon and Obama will reap the fruits at the Presidential elections. McCain has a real mountain to climb.
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#12 80%
"The British Chancellor of the Exchequer, a sober man of the left, said a few minutes ago "We want to return these banks to the private sector because Governments should not be running banks".
Even European socialists are capitalists."
Many people on this blog have been saying this to right wing American posters for a while now. They still don't get the fact that socialism is another form of capitalism where the State plays a more of a role in the economy. Even the most hardened socialist will be uncomfortable with all the banks being nationalised and run by civil servants: the aim is to soften the blow of the hard effects of capitalism not run it per se.
Sometimes it feels like teaching the rules of cricket to an American!
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#19 smileytm303
"One of his crashed planes set off a series of bomb explosions that killed nearly 140 people."
Not quite true I'm afraid, apprently McCain was still performing his preflight checks when a plane on the other side of the deck launched a rocket by mistake, this went through McCain's fuel tank and set the fuel alight. McCain managed to escape his cockpit before one of the bombs on his plane exploded, which then set off a series of explosions.
The CCTV bit is true though.
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When asked about why he failed to object to NeoCons fingering his campaign into negative tacticts McCain replied that 'When you get to my age you get used to being asked to lie face down on a gurney whilst someone unseen puts on rubber gloves'.
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#32 MagicKirin
I'm an Obama supporter, and I haven't called anyone who supports McCain a racist. If you take a look at the republican rallies then you'll get to know who's been calling other people names.
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36
Interesting that Hillary would give up her seat in the senate.
Theoretically, is there anything to prevent Bill from being appointed as Sec of State?
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That "Arab" question demonstrates how ignorant and ill-informed some people are.
What's even more vile, however, is Michael Palin or whatever her name is accusing Obama of "palling around with terrorists".
When former Chancellor Ken Clarke appeared on Question Time the other day, even he (who's party is considered the America's Republican Party's sister party) said how he cannot comprhend how in a country of such talent, Americans still manage to elevate idiots to high office.
If the horrific scenario where McCain/Cleese win this election comes to pass (as predicted a year ago by Mr. Webb), I'm emigrating to Mars.
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72 Hours No ACORN repudiation from Obama.
In another example of intolerance, Obama supporter protested a banner put up for McCain in Prince Georges County,VA.
They protested and threatened mob action.
Maybee Michelle can go down and try to fix their souls
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Mrs. Arab almost certainly got it from one of the vile lying emails or brochures that the right wing is cranking out.
If Mrs. Arab won't vote for a candidate because of his or her genetic makeup, that's racism, and it's bad in my book. She may be kind to her cats and her grandkids, but she doesn't count for much.
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42# Paul939 wrote:
#32 MagicKirin
I'm an Obama supporter, and I haven't called anyone who supports McCain a racist. If you take a look at the republican rallies then you'll get to know who's been calling other people names.
......................................................
If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, its a duck. There has been an element of racism and neo-McCarthyism about the GOP campaign since Obama came to prominence. It has gone into overdrive since Palin came onboard.
The Republicans know they have lost all chance of appealling to independents or wavering democrats, they are trying to shore up their base vote as a damage limitation exercise. However they have thrown away the progressive Republicanism of Lincoln, and Teddy Roosevelt and embraced the fundamentalist values of the "heartland" and "dixiecrats".
To get an idea of how crazy some of the anti-Obama people are google "Obama" and "Anti-Christ" and see just how many hits on insane babble you can bear to trawl through.
Its time for the Republicans to return to their progressive roots, ditch the Rapturists and engage with the 21st century not the 17th. McCain initially looked like he might be prepared to do this but he lost his bottle.
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Response to Justin Webb's piece broadcast by Radio 4 at 12.50 today :
Justin, if your great faith in the continuation of America's domination of the world's finances and culture is to be justified, they will have to choose a great new president. Eight more years of erratic behaviour in The White House will not suffice.
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The 'Arab' comment is a better example of the irrational anger you mentioned in the previous blog. People are entitled to their views, but this isn't a "view", this is an ignorant, racial slur that has been designed to incite hatred. McCain is not doing enough to stop it, I guess because in the end, he needs these people to vote for him.
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In my book, there is a huge difference between being ignorant and being a bad person. Someone can be ignorant of world affairs, history, geography and cultural matters and still be a wonderful human being with a genuine desire to help others.
Sadly, the climate of intolerance, hatred and fear created by the Bush Administration, with media complicity, has found fertile ground among the least educated whose intellectual and social limitations influenced the outcome of the last two elections. The less educated are not evil, they are the victims of cynical manipulation worthy of Machiavelli.
I suspect the woman that accused Obama of being an Arab does not know the difference between a Muslim and an Arab, and the man who voiced fear at the possibility that Obama may become President is most likely embarrassed by McCain's response. I would not be surprised if McCain lost some followers during those exchanges, but he may have gained some from those that call themselves Independents, who tend to be better educated and pragmatic. The ones that worry me are those that call for the assasination of people they dislike, including a certain minister who suggested doing that to Chavez, presumably in the name of Jesus Christ!
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Justin Webb is a sorry excuse for a journalist. He does nothing to promote intelligent discussion of issues. He does nothing but throw gasoline on a fire. He is so in the tank for Obama that it is pathetic.
As for the Obama supporter's reaction to the "Arab" video, you are so blinded by your hatred of McCain. McCain was clearly disgusted by the lady's remark. He refuted any point that she wanted to make by saying Obama is a decent man and told her to sit down. He wanted nothing of her ideas. He wanted to move on.
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Ref 45
Magic, ACORN and similar organizations provide services such as voter registration drives to political candidates of all stripes who pay them for those services. Obama paid an ACORN affiliate $800,000 for what he thought was a legitimate operation, and to some extent it is. If anything, Obama is a victim of fraud, not an accomplice.
There is also a difference between submitting false voter registrations and voter fraud. Restaurants and similar structures don't vote, and dead people don't vote either. I don't know how it is where you live, but in the small city where I live I have to show my drivers license and my voter registration card, after the canvasser verifies my address and makes sure I am the person whose picture appears on the drivers license I have to sign where my name appears, and a sticker is placed besides my name indicating I voted. I suppose there is always a probability that someone will figure out a way to carry out fraudulent activities, but what I learned from the ACORN incident is that candidates should not trust organizations like that and that our system does work.
There are plenty of important issues critical to our future and to the future of our children to worry about ACORN. Leave that to the squirrels!
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'As far as I know he is not a muslim'
Hilary Clinton
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ref #42
you may not but what about the attacks
By the GA congressman who said McCain was bring back segrgation politics
The situation I mentioned in VA
Gerladine Ferraro being attacked for criticizing him
Several posters on this blog
and of course the Daily Kos and Huffington Post, MSNBC
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Ref 21
MAII, I doubt Bill and Hillary Clinton will vote for McCain. My opinion is not based on ideology but on long term strategy. The last thing Hillary needs is an incumbet VP Palin to run against.
A more likely scenario is one of them becoming a Cabinet member in the Obama Administration, as either Secretary of State or Healthcare Tzarina, which would put Hillary in an excellent position to run in 2016...if whomever wins this election survives the next four years!
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Ref 45
"In another example of intolerance, Obama supporter protested a banner put up for McCain in Prince Georges County,VA."
Prince Georges county is in Maryland, not Virginia. I worked there for over 20 years.
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need one say more ?
http://www.politico.com/blogs/jonathanmartin/1008/More_McCain_supporters_hurt_their_own_cause.html
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This one of the nastiest Presidential races in US history. McCain, had to dampen down the bile on Friday himself. You pointed out one rally on Friday where McCain finally stepped in with enough is enough! He had to defend the character of his opponent at his own rally. The real danger was the day before where he said and did nothing. In the state of Georgia in the South, at a McCain rally, while he was speaking, a woman yelled our and I quote "Bomb Obama"! This is dangerous for a country who has in the pass dealt with Black Leaders, by murdering them and their families. Numerous Civil Rights Leaders in the South were stopped by bombing them in there homes and cars, you have only heard of a few in Europe the real number is frightening. It's also part of our dirty pass that White America tells us to "Get Over". Many Older Black Americans believe that if Obama is elected, White America will kill him, you are seeing our fears personified.
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# 36 Politician Sam
"Perhaps a more likely scenario is Biden steps down in 2012 (he will, after all be 73, too old for the role) and Hilary becomes the next veep. Given the parlous state of affairs 4 years of modest economic growth and getting out of Iraq would probabaly see the ticket through. Then Hillary takes over in 2016 for one or two terms, she'd be young enough. After all, after this election it's probably going to take the Reps as long as it took the UK Tories to start to look electable."
Loath though I am to contradict a many of many parts such as Sam - according to Wikipedia, Biden was born on 20 November '42 - which, if my sums are correct, means he's 65 now and would be 73 (almost 74) if he and Obama served 2 terms. I don't think that's much older than McCain is now, and I'm sure it's around the age that Reagan ran for a second term, so if he wants the job, Obama wants him and his health holds up - and assuming of course that they win once, let alone twice - I can easily see him there for 8 years.
As for Hillary taking his job in 2012 or becoming Prez in 2016 - again, according to Wiki, she was born on October 26, 1947, which makes her 61 in a couple of weeks and 69 at the 2016 election. Again, younger than McCain - but not exactly young.
Before either party picked their VP nominee, someone had a quite interesting article on the Web saying that such picks were important not just for the election, or even for governing after it, but because the VP tends to become the ready made front runner when the sitting President leaves office. Almost all VPs tend to run for President - Cheney is an obvious exception, due to age and health, and presumably Biden will be another. Arguably that has some advantages for Obama, in that he doesn't have to worry so much about Biden pursuing a separate agenda. Whereas if McCain wins I think he'd need to keep a sharp eye on Mrs Palin. And that could be a good reason why Obama might not want Hillary in the job.
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ref #53
Dominick my original post siad Obama was not involved with the ACORN fraud but he has yet to repudiate it.
Considering the problems in FL, I don't think the requirements at the polls are unreasonable. Frankly I wish they were more stringent in my state.
But ACORN did endorse Obama and they are engaged in electorial fraud.
Do you want a repeat of 2000 and 2004, when some activists and Barbara Boxer complained about fraud?
Because this is electorial fraud in the open and it should have us all worried
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On the religion, this guy says it all.
- Wendy Riemann, Midwest Regional Communications DirectorAnd as for a religious description of McCain by using 'post writers' as this one,.... I think he sums it up in his next to last line, only you be he.
3. At 9:36pm on 10 Oct 2008, APbbforum wrote:
Was it only me that saw "Ms. Arab" wanted to say "Muslim" but was afraid, in her own country amongst her own people. That is the sad testiment in her comment. Not her imperfect or misinformed beliefs, but her fear, and McCains uncaring way he handled it,.. he walked away from her to put physical distance between them, shameful and uncaring. He should of looked her in the eye, with compasion for her being, and dis agreed with her, not the crowd or the TV.
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While I also noticed the Mccain's discrepancy between "Arab" and "good family man", I don't think he meant it that way. He was shaking his head and disagreeing with this woman's perception that Obama is a crazy Muslim terrorist, rather than trying to insult Arabs in general.
Obviously most of the GOP won't have a clue what the difference is between "Arab" and "crazy Muslim terrorist", but I'm just saying, it's not necessary to have a dig at Mccain on this incident.
The threat of him keeping the insanity, xenophobia and backwardness of the Republican party in charge of America, that's what people should cane him about.
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The European Commission has just announced an agreement whereby English will be the official language of the European Union rather than German, which was the other possibility.
As part of the negotiations, the British Government conceded that English spelling had some room for improvement and has accepted a 5- year phase-in plan that would become known as "Euro-English".
In the first year, "s" will replace the soft "c". Sertainly, this will make the sivil servants jump with joy.
The hard "c" will be dropped in favour of "k". This should klear up konfusion, and keyboards kan have one less letter.
There will be growing publik enthusiasm in the sekond year when the troublesome "ph" will be replaced with "f". This will make words like fotograf 20% shorter.
In the 3rd year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling kan be expekted to reach the stage where more komplikated changes are possible.
Governments will enkourage the removal of double letters which have always ben a deterent to akurate speling.
Also, al wil agre that the horibl mes of the silent "e" in the languag is disgrasful and it should go away.
By the 4th yer people wil be reseptiv to steps such as replasing "th" with "z" and "w" with "v".
During ze fifz yer, ze unesesary "o" kan be dropd from vords kontaining "ou" and after ziz fifz yer, ve vil hav a reil sensibl riten styl.
Zer vil be no mor trubl or difikultis and evrivun vil find it ezi tu understand ech oza. Ze drem of a united urop vil finali kum tru!
Und efter ze fifz yer, ve vil al be speking German like zey vunted in ze forst plas.
Talk about a tailspin!!
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"Putting down his weapons of war, the new warrior fights ignorance, not other people".
Those we wish to slander require a label, for it makes it easy in the susequent disassociation. "She's all right for a republican!" Still the label, still the judgment.
How about "I disagree with some of your views". Neutral and nonjudgemental. Obama is behaving remarkably well given his advesaries. In years gone by it would be pistols at dawn.
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I am happy the Mcain camp are just getting it..the justified inquest on obama's past misdeeds is not about poll numbers, but more importantly about creating the benefit of doubt in the mind of voters. Americans should ask themselves a very pertinent question. do they really know who Obama is and what he stands for? are they ready to put their future and children's future in the hands of an unknown quantity like Obama? By the way, all this talk about Obama being the saviour, the expert on the economy, the one who would make things RIGHT is ludicrous and extremely laughable.. what is his track record? what has he ever done to deserve such accolade? Obama is a creation of the nauseating american media ably led by cnn and their so called experts..
Obama looks out for only one person, and that person is Barrack Obama! He has used questionable associates and friends to get ahead in politics only to later deny and dump them, and now he is using the palpable fear of Americans over the state of the economy to get ahead in the polls, and BREAKING NEWS!!! HE IS GOING TO DENY AND DUMP THOSE SAME AMERICANS IF HE GETS WHAT HE WANTS.
THEN AFTERWARDS HE WILL BE AT LIBERTY TO IMPLEMENT IS OWN PERSONAL AGENDA.
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48. The Notting Hill Hammer
Very well put, and though I agree it is an uphill battle for the republican party, the end count of the voting isn't until November 4th. I don't want people feeling that Obama has it won, or McCain has lost, so they stay home and not vote.
The interesting and unknown part of the election is the people, not the canidates. I've said it before and we've discussed it here, the citizens of the general population are not all that bright. Fom the Disney vid where none knew where Austria is, to the Hannity Man on the Street interviews where college students do not know who the secretary of state is, nor thier own senator or representative.
Bias, religion, racisism and phobias all play a part.
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One thing that the Clintons have proved during this campaign is that they remain a vital force in American politics. She didn't get the nomination for a myriad of reasons - which we have done to death on these pages.
But boy, they really liven things up as soon as they appear on the national stage.
They are now making no bones about supporting Obama and they must have realised that they can be a force for either good or bad, which ever way they want to play it.
It would seem that for their party's and country's sake they have decided to be a force for good. If so, there are plenty of important roles for both of them - and still the ultimate prize of the presidency in 4 or 8 years for a very fit looking 60-year old Hillary.
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While commentaries made by partisans on both sides should not be discounted, if nothing else because they reflect our strengths and weaknesses, what is really important regarding the negativism that dominates this campaign is what the candidates themselves are saying.
I do not recall Obama or Biden making personal attacks against McCain or Palin, if anything they are ignoring Palin; but I do recall Palin making an unseemly commentary insinuating that Obama is a terrorist sympathizer. Considering the current political climate and the fears caused by 9/11 and events in the Middle East and Asia Minor I believe her comments are not only irresponsible but dangerous. It doesn't take much to incite violence in a society that is being subjected to unprecedented events with serious consequences to our way of life and our security, the last thing we need is a ready-made politician making inflammatory remarks to gain a few votes.
I am proud of the way John McCain reacted on Friday, and as opposed to other Obama supporters, I believe his disgust was genuine, but he must now talk to his running mate and impress on her the need to conduct herself like a professional and a person worthy of the second highest office in our country. She is running for VP, not a lethal injection operator vacancy.
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#51 DominickVilla & #52 phatGator:
The underlying premise of the lies about Obama being a Muslim or an Arab is that millions of people see Muslims and Arabs as threats. It's a tragedy that people are so willing to accept a lie, but it is a greater tragedy that so many people fall victim to the racism that promotes such unreasoned hostility.
McCain gets a point for challenging Mrs. Arab, but he gets negative points for failing to challenge her basic premise about Arabs. In fact, by citing Obama's standing as a good family man to counter the Arab claim -- he can't be an Arab if he's a good family man -- he bolstered Mrs. Arab's racism. Republicans have been inciting and leveraging bigotry since the 1960's, so I guess we shouldn't be surprised.
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I find it very strange for people to bash conservatives for their anger at Obama. Have you people been in a coma for 8 years? Bush has been demonized worse than any politician I can remember. People accuse him of planning and executing the 9-11 attacks, people accuse him of not helping New Orleans to hurt black people. The right is simply giving the left a taste of their own medicine.
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ref #42
Speulations o the Clintons.
first I think Michelle Obama would block a Hillary appointment to Barack's cabinent.
The Secretary of State is 5th in line for the Presendency but I don't see Bill wanting in it. And I don't see Obama offering it.
Bill Richardson is a more likely appointee
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McCain's in a poor position on the race issue: if he stands up and firmly states, without any form of equivocation, that he'll tolerate no more comments like this at his rallies, that any such 'supporters' of his will be thrown out of events and their comments disavowed, then he risks offending a large number of people. Moreover, if he says something like "these are vile slurs on a fine man such as Barack Obama" then he's practically endorsing him. So he can't do that, because it would alienate a large number of the undecided votes (on the right).
But he can't ignore it either, because that makes it looks like he supports the comments, and that also alienates a large number of the undecided votes (on the left).
If he's half-hearted about it, as he appears to be at present, he looks like he's a captain who's only got partial control of the ship. He's not stopped the name-calling, he's not retracted the "palling around with terrorists" quote, and thus to any outsider it seems like a token act at best. Wich, not surprisingly, alienates a significant number of the undecideds, partially on race grounds but also because he looks out of control.
To my way of thinking, this is a no-win situation for him; with the appointment of Sarah Palin (and by extension the religious Right) he's opened Pandora's box and now has to deal with it as best he can.
I'm quite certain that McCain is no racist, that he's an honourable man, and that he could do a decent job as president. However, I'm equally certain that he's jumped into bed with some exceptionally unsavoury characters, which reflects poorly upon him. Sadly, it's a measure of the man that he's apparently prepared to compromise his principles to such a degree to get further up the pole that he forgets why it was that anyone supported his candidacy in the first place.
"I'm a Republican, just not the type you've known for the last eight years". Sadly, Mr McCain, you're precisely the sort of Republican we know all too well.
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Re Post 60 John-in-Dublin
Regarding the idea of the VP being a stepping stone to the presidency..
I wonder if we might be comming to the end of the time when the VP could be considered the nominated successor.
Now it seems the trend is towards younger candidates; a reflection of a society which places a high value on youthfulness. It's also perhaps becomming easier for a younger person to run. An older candidate is easier to paint as "an insider" and has a record which can be used against them as well as for. They might also have more skeletons in the cupboard for dirt diggers to find. An Obama type candidate with a light resume is more difficlut to pin down. However a younger candidate still needs to add ballast to the campaign and would be more likely to pick an older VP, someone who's long, but not too distinguished, career gives an air of authority (dare I say gravitas).
In this case the VP is no longer the springboard towards the presidency but the consolation prize for long service - sort of like those oscars for lifetime achievement they give to actors who have been nominated several times but never actually won.
You're all doing very well !!
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#64 DougTexan
Congrats. Now I know how to speak German :-).
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Ref 61
"But ACORN did endorse Obama and they are engaged in electorial fraud."
The Imperial Wizzard of the KKK endorsed McCain, does that mean McCain is in any way associated with that organization? Absolutely not! Everything in John McCain's record indicates he is an honest man, and a political moderate willing to compromise and govern by consensus.
I disagree with some of his policies and I am concerned about his age and his bouts with cancer, but I don't hate him or think he is an incompetent or an evil man. Unfortunately for our country, many voters are influenced by inconsequential subjects, often based on perception rather than reality, than on issues of critical importance to our future or the solutions offered by the candidates. The absence of intellectual acumen that is evident among many voters, and the ability of the political parties to manipulate them, gave us George W. Bush and the calamities we are now enduring as a result of our ill conceived choice.
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#19, #40
I say this as an Obama supporter, but the McCain-was-a-bad-pilot line is in fact a myth. It's been thoroughly debunked on Snopes and I think FactCheck. Two training accidents (I believe due to mechanical failure), a mechanical failure over the Atlantic, the accidental rocket firing on the carrier, and being shot down. Conspiracy theorists will always make of it what they will, but...
And while by his own admission McCain was a bit wild and rebellious at the Academy, his years in captivity burned that away forever.
Still, military service and POW status doesn't mean instant qualification for leadership.
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58. At 1:41pm on 13 Oct 2008, tanniemola
This Link of yours says as much about the Obama supporters protesting at the McCain*Palin ralley.
I went to an Obama ralley at reunion convention center in Dallas and didn't see one Republican supporter 'protesting' Obamas right to meet his supporters. Maybe it is only in Texas, maybe it's different now that people have made up thier minds.
Back then we were just meeting the various canidates, I'm republican and so were many others that just went inside to learn about and meet Obama. I would have thought the people protesting might like to see why that racist (one) comedian was going inside.
The insanity of protesting with slurs and epithats rather than supporting with class and reason. Odd.
just words, just speeches
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69 you are clueless. Hillary Clinton didn't put up with adultery and swallow hard to become vice president. Everything you see in public is for show only. Hillary Clinton wants to be President and she would have been had she been nominated. The Clintons and Obama detest each other. It's all they can do to keep it pent up and out of public view.
Eighty-percent, I guess they don't have a business channel in Britain, either that or the PM never watches it.
"Firstly, the PM stated firmly "Businesses should be built around work, enterprise and acceptable risk taking". That's not socialism, it's good capitalism."
Actually that is wrong. Business should and is built around profits, profit margins, and return on investment. Government limits their freedom of action for social reasons through taxes and regulatory restrictions. We tinker with it on the margins "for the greater good" but no matter how you slice it, anything which reduces profits impacts business, private enterprise being by far the most effective engine of wealth creation. It wouldn't matter if a company had no employees at all, if it were run entirely by robots and computers, if it made profits it would be successful. And any smart company will keep an employee who brings in a net profit that is an acceptable return on the investment in him even if he only works five minutes a year.
decilar
"The British Chancellor of the Exchequer, a sober man of the left, said a few minutes ago "We want to return these banks to the private sector because Governments should not be running banks".
"Even European socialists are capitalists."
Actually it seems to be the other way around, European and Americans are capitalists and want government to stay out when things are running well but become socialists when they aren't and want government to step in and rescue them. This unfortunately is exactly what is happening now. Instead what should happen is that the government should become the bank of last resort extending credit at slighly higher than competitive rates than solvent banks can offer. This would allow insolvent banks to go broke without impacting the rest of the economy. Eventually when new private banks emerge, the government could get out of the banking business. It would be an important lesson to the future the current generation apparantly forgot from the past. When you run a business badly or invest in one that is run badly, you go bankrupt. This bail out is a very bad idea and is why so many Americans are furious at it. Bankers should not be protected from their own incompetence.
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I think that probably the relevance of conclusions
about military service by someone writing for the
"Rolling Stone" are somewhat suspect.
There are several distortions in the article, which
show that its author, Tim Dickinson, is unfamiliar
with the sacrifices that any serviceman has to
make, and the extreme ones that any POW may
be called upon to make.
As Churchill once said in his history of WWII
of a Japanese admiral who blew a battle,
"Those who have endured a similar ordeal
may judge him."
Nonetheless, there may be a germ of truth
regarding McCain's temperament. I run into
people occasionally who have tales to tell
about it. Certainly, we have seen him take
some actions during this campaign which
may be interpreted as being impulsive and
perhaps not indicative of good leadership.
On the other hand, I know far less about
Obama. I do know that he is intelligent,
well read, and thorough in his decision-making.
But, I know far less about him on an everyday
level, and, in some sense, I believe that his
campaign has been managing his public
persona in this regard to restrict access to
his personal history.
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# 66 Icey
You posted two quite sober comments earlier today on the Gavin Hewitt blog ?
Have you been down the pub ?
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Yo Eighty%,
Do you think Hillary might take a seat on the Supreme court if Obama gets elected? I wonder if there wasn't a deal for her support, though at what price. The McCain camp could use her battle tapes against Obama in ads, negating any plus of her support.
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66. At 2:25pm on 13 Oct 2008, icetayoa wrote:
THEN AFTERWARDS HE WILL BE AT LIBERTY TO IMPLEMENT IS OWN PERSONAL AGENDA.
This accusation has been repeated a number of times here by various idiots, without ever stating what that agenda might be. So, icetayoa, what do you think his hidden agenda might be?
To be honest, the only thing that would really scare the world is if Palin became POTAS.
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It's not a mystery where "Ms. Arab" heard it. She heard it on Fox News, because Sean Hannity had Andy Martin on his show and Fox has been giving his views air time. Andy Martin is quite literally the lunatic fringe; he's the source of the rumors that Barack Obama is a secret Muslim and other fabrications. "It's in his bloodline" is one of his phrases.
There's an article about him in the New York Times. What I don't understand is why Hannity and his ilk haven't gotten laughed off the air long ago. Or fired. Or sued.
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Hey DOUG
#62.
you left out the best part of that comment. I am sure you had your reasons but here it is for everyone that was mislead by you of course intentionally.
"I would also pray, Lord, that your reputation is involved in all that happens between now and November, because there are millions of people around this world praying to their god - whether it’s Hindu, Buddha, Allah - that his opponent wins, for a variety of reasons,” Conrad said.
“And Lord, I pray that you would guard your own reputation, because they’re going to think that their god is bigger than you, if that happens. So I pray that you will step forward and honor your own name with all that happens between now and Election Day.”"
here is the video to put a name to the face of the people McCain surrounds himself with...
MUST WATCH
p.s. Christians believe in ONE GOD.
SO how can this ONE GOD have competition from other GODS?
McCain is a madman. I cannot believe that America has reached this point. We do not have the necessary intellect to lead the world with idiots like the ones who surround McCain who God forbid might decide the fate of my family and this country.
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"Decent family man citizen"
in answer to "he's an arab"
How about this John boy
"He's a decent family man a citizen of the United States of America, a Christian,
Not an Arab Mam."
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#77 Via-Media
I wasn't questioning McCain's flight record, merely correcting smileytm303's statement that McCain crashed his plane and killed 140 people.
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McCain may have rightfully been defending Obama to the public - but he's not reeling in Palin, is he? Sounds to me like he's having his cake and eating it too.
Palin's main contribution has been to soothe the nerves of the the 'right-wing' in the GOP - people who clearly had concerns about McCain. This much is self-evident.
It is therefore not a coincidence, in my view, that this language of "he's not very American" - ie, outsider - has become a new coded language. Racist? Let's be honest here; it undoubtably has a racist meaning for a portion of Palin/McCain supporters. It's "welfare queens" all over again.
Just because you like McCain, and don't like racism, dosn't mean you should deny that it has a slight presense in the tone of their campaign. It's obvious when you read between the lines.
Grass-roots democrats are obviously out of line as well with this hysteria over Palin - but she dosn't help her case by behaving the way she has been. There's no smoke without fire.
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1. At 06:48am on 13 Oct 2008, eightypercent wrote:
I'm glad to see that the religious folk are stepping in to soothe feelings. They're always so helpful.
--------------------------
Yea especially at starting the bad feelings.
(exception so may of you that are not using religion as a vehicle of hate, Aqua, googloo ,Sam et al)
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3 Iris rainbow.
well said.
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First: John McCain a bad pilot? Naval Aviators are the most highly trained pilots in the world. If you aren't a good pilot you end up plastered on the fantail of an aircraft carrier. Unless these comments come from someone who flew with John McCain, I would seriously discount them. Second: This is American Politics, it's down and dirty and anyone can say anything they want with no thought given to truth, integrity or scruples. Talk to John Adams about character assassination, it was alive and well then, as well. I am not a John McCain supporter but I am so sick of all the lies and innuendo spread by both sides like fertilizer. The weak minded sheep that buy into all these lies, fabrications and campaign agendas elected George W. Bush in 2000 and have been reaping the whirlwind ever sense. Hopefully the Carl Rovian fear mongers will not push the sheep into another GOP mistake in November.
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Ref 71
I would not be surprised if some nut has insinuated that President Bush was somehow responsible for 9/11 or that he purposely neglected New Orleans to harm its large black population, but I assure you those are not conclusions shared by most Democrats.
The support that President Bush enjoyed after 9/11 was overwhelming and it included both Republicans and Democrats, and the criticisms I have heard about his response to the Katrina disaster dealt with his ambivalence, ineffectiveness, and with comments such as "Good job Brownie" when everything suggested the recovery effort was lacking, to put it mildly.
There is a difference between criticizing the positions and actions of a politician, and calling for assasinations as some McCain supporters have done, or inciting violence the way Gov. Palin did when she linked Obama to terrorism. The latter is particularly offensive not only because it is not true, but because it elevates the stature of Al Qaeda and other terrorist organizations intent on harming our country and our allies.
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# 79
Marcus
As Eddie George said to one of your fellow Republicans the other day, it hasn't been working very well, has it ?
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# 3 IrisRainbows, very nicely put- McCain should have used his position as a leader to denounce all the racist B.S.
Since when is being Arab such an evil thing! Imagine if you were an arab american- as your kidsgrow up here are you supposed to tell them that they can never aspire to be president of the U.S. -when was that made a decree! American dream ha!!
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First, the poll pendulum continues swinging towards McCain: from a high of Obama +8 to Obama +5 currently. If you're an Obama supporter, it's probably best to hope it swings all the way towards McCain fast, so it has time to swing back to Obama.
Second, McCain's correction of a misperception of Obama I thought was admirable. People here are right--he should have added that Arabs and Muslims are as good citizens as anyone else and should not be voted against because of either their ethnicity or their religion. I think or at least trust the fact that he didn't wasn't because he didn't feel it was true, but only because it was difficult to get everything out the way it should have been said in a pressure-filled situation like the one he was in.
Finally, I've learned a little about McCain's bailout plan, which takes over bad mortgages, and think it's better than the plan voted in, because it attacks the bottom rather than the top of the pyramid.
But I have a better idea: rather than giving any more money to people who've pissed it away, whether its the bankers or people who've failed at the task of budgeting, why not give the money to those US citizens below a certain income level who are entirely solvent. Doing so will serve three purposes:
1. Reward those who've acted reponsibly.
2. Give money to those who've shown they know how to handle it.
3. Encourage responsible behavior in the future, in the hopes of this practice being repeated.
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# 80 Guns
You don't know the "every day" Obama
I am sure that I advised you way back to read the Ryan Lizza piece in The New Yorker (which was rather drowned out because of the terrorist fist bump cover). It's good investigative stuff.
And at the risk of getting Sam going again, you could consider his sixteen-year marriage to the accomplished Michelle if you want to look at the every day Obama.
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52 fat gator , he wanted to move on because there were cameras there and he's not that stupid.
Maybe he is embarrassed, but his refuting the comment was pathetic, unless he just doesn't have what it takes to be assertive.
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83. At 3:17pm on 13 Oct 2008, David_de_Jong
"This accusation has been repeated a number of times here by various idiots, without eve..."
Okay, the 'idiots' part aside, the informed few look at the 'whole' known aspect of this mans life. His leftist voting record, his associations of questionable characters and groups, (Rezko, Rev. Wright, Rev. Flandder, Ayers, Acorn and others). Granted, he has just this year, broken ties with everyone he knew prior to winning the nomination for president.
That said, some would like to know those he hasn't 'thrown under the bus'. Where are his college classmates, former girlfriend,.. heck, the media won't even question his grandmother. His own books present a different picture of the man we see before us today. Idiots,..? To coin the oxymoron use of the term,.. they want to be informed 'intelligent idiots',.. and maybe your not.
86. At 3:32pm on 13 Oct 2008, goleooo
Apologies, I believed everyone would read the whole link to comment on. I agree with ya, the lunitic fringe is beyond the realm of your reality, or mine.
I tried to watch the response video to Religuous you linked to, but it came up,"no longer available". I rather not take a "fictional media view" as an intelligent 'source' to base a conclusion on.
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58. At 1:41pm on 13 Oct 2008, tanniemola wrote:
need one say more ?
apparently yes.
Amazing
Did you see all those good folk behind him just forgetting to tell him that was not right.
After all it wasn't racist , right? Majik?
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She heard it from the witch doctor - put the lime in the coconut. And check out Rush L on the radio - madness! It is definitely nut-factor time on the GOP trail, they are beating the most isolated appalachian bushes now to drum up some votes and tickling the most latent racism they can find in the populous. The anger is strange though...the sheep are angry... they don't want to wake up from happy slumbers. Who wants to admit they've been absolutely wrong for the last 8 years (or more)...especially the loud ones.
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61 would you prefer electoral fraud was done in the privacy of a computer lab by Diabold then, i presume.
Or by threatening people at the polls.
Get off it. as for your original post , that's lost since then you have claimed he is involved
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62 doug
He should of looked her in the eye, with compasion for her being, and dis agreed with her, not the crowd or the TV.
well said
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Doug # 82
I honestly haven't a clue but I would think that she would want to leave her options open for future Presidency. I've always understood that Supreme Court is for life and that would box her in. She'd be a good nomination, though, if she wanted it.
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What really horrifies me about the whole Palin thing is the fact that apparently nobody in America or on this blog seems interested in her religious convictions. For Pete's sake, she is a CREATIONIST!
I've found it difficult to confirm but it seems she is probably a Young Earth Creationist to boot.
This is not just a quaint quirk on her part and nobody else's business. It means either that she is desperately ignorant and incapable of rational thought, or that she has consciously repudiated rational thought. In either case, she ought to not to be in any position of power.
She isn't even consistent. She is notoriously in favour of offshore oil drilling in Alaska. But wait, how does she know there is any damned oil? Because geology tells her! But geology also tells her the word is billions of years old.
Of course the Obama camp dare not tackle this issue, because apparently half the American population are equally dumb and deluded.
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Is Sarah Palin ready for office? To me she simply has no preparation for national office.
It was once joked that if an aide came in to tell Dick Cheney that George W. Bush had died and he was now president, Cheney would have replied, "But I thought I already was the president."
Now I can imagine an aide telling Sarah Palin that President McCain was dead and her replying, "Oh, who's president now?"
Perhaps the reason why McCain is trailing in all the key swing states, it's because voters are answering "No" to the silent question, "Could Sarah Palin take over as president?"
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The bottom line for me is that a socialist policy gives the government the power and the money to do something. That is not a jab at Obama, just the norm of the Democratic Party. The GOP is guilty of that as well, but they normally don't talk about it in an election. Most anger I witness such as you've seen on T.V. is really directed at the media for not showing these traits in Obama, from my perspective anyway. If you follow the expected conclusion of his ideas, it will inherently grow the goverment.
Besides the Supreme Court selection, it is these policies that are the most important regardless of whom he pals around with...
When giving the Goverment authority they don't currently have, ask yourself how this could be used against you when you become the fringe of society.
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hell even I don't believe GW took out the towers
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98
I think or at least trust the fact that he didn't wasn't because he didn't feel it was true, but only because it was difficult to get everything out the way it should have been said in a pressure-filled situation like the one he was in.
I'll give him that after all.Just maybe.
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108
I think palin would say "finally"
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I do not see why anyone bothers to write in here, if you say anything critical of Obama it gets deleted, yet it seems you can say anything you like against McCain and Palin, yet again prove of the media campaign working on behalf of Obama
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101. At 4:18pm on 13 Oct 2008, DougTexan wrote:
I think you misunderstood which part of the post I was referring to. It was specifically the accusation of Obama having a secret agenda and the unstated innuendo.
I agree that it would be nice to have more info, but if there is nothing out of the ordinary, other than what's already known, that could explain it.
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For a nation who is on the verge of being overrun by arab terrorist's themselves, you sure have become very tolerant in your liberal luntic views. I guess that "is" the reason why your country is being overrun by hoodlums, right??? Right??? I will rest my case.
I have to admit that I am having a hard time reading most of the comments being posted by the UK citizens??? It is very clear that the BBC is about as "objective" and "tolerant" in their views as the british people are toward arab fundalism. And I am just about ready to go and vomit.
I also had no idea that the UK people were so interested in American politics. I mean, if the UK people are so gung ho about having an arab for a Prime Minister why don't you just go ahead and elect one for your own country instead of wasting your time and energy (and taxpayers money) on malicing, slandering, and downright spreading lies about American candidates running in the election, in particular the Republican representatives. (Oh, no pun intended!)
I should mention that I am a Canadian/Italian who is following the the race very closely and have observed this very interesting phenomenon, especially in the liberally biased nutbar media, such as cnn, cbs, and the "BBC" for example. I have not come across one comment that actually compliments the republican candidates. Gee, I wonder why that is?? Instead, all I read are ignorant dumbass comments from people who probably have absolutely no idea what is going on accept from what the (very Objective BBC news, nudge, nudge, wink wink....) media wants them to believe, which, of course is nothing more than fabricated fiction.
Again, I always forget that we are dealing with the very "Objective BBC news mdia BS."
And then there is this one last thought that really strikes me (I have to make this my last thought because I do have to run off to work, or I could probably write for a year or two however, I will not waste my time.) I have noted and observed that many people, including women, just love to bash Mrs Palin to bits and pieces. I find this very strange coming from a nation where feminism originated.
I mean, here is a model lady. A real women, elegant, family oriented, smart, intelligent female and the feminazi's are all over her. I cannot quite understand your logic. That's right, what am I thinking. Women?? Logic?? I know, it does not make any sense.
But hey, all you backseat misinformed critics, do us all a favor, please clean up your own backyard before trying to clean someone else's yard. To be honest with you the US is not on my most favourite list of countries, but one thing is for sure, that last thing I would want know and hear is to have UK knobs trying to tell other people across the ocean what is best for their country.
Remember, you have all been brainwashed by the liberal media and liberal television Oh and your liberal universites.
Regards,
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#101 Doug
Can I suggest that rather than repeatedly raising the same issues again and again re Obama, you take the time and trouble to research?
It took me about 20 minutes, using Factcheck (factcheck.org will find it) to satisfy myself that the Ayers, Rezco and Ned Flanders issues were in fact non issues.
As for Rev Wright? He's a frustrated man, a former Marine, who has (as so many do on reaching retirement) looked around and been sad that they achieved so little, and that there's so much still to do. He said some things which were highly emotive, yet looking at the substance, there's little I'd disagree with. And in any case, he's Obama's local pastor, not exactly part of the campaign team.
I think you're looking for something that's just not there.
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103. frayedcat
'..and you mix it all up..' Palin? You wish you were that smart, capable and sucessful. You jealousy is showing.
Hmm the last seven of the eight years were not all that bad. We've suffered an attack and as a "country" over reacted, (bad Bush), but now the surge has started to work (good Bush?). The rich got richer and the poor bought houses. (bad Democrat Senate). The banking regulation of the 1930s was let expire, (bad Democrat Senate)
The first catastrophic hurricane of the recent history to receive massive government aid, the system was found wanting (bad Bush) to say the least, but the second was handled admirably, (where's the praise for Bush).
The economy any subsequent problems and debt are related directly to the "SENATE", the same place, "Both" canidates came from. History, crappola, the republicans are quilty, so are the democrats.
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Most remarkable about the 'A-rab' comment is McCain's distinction. "No he is not an Arab he is a decent, hardworking man..." Are there no decent hardworking Arab's in the world, even the USA? How would John Zogby feel about this...perhaps a poll is appropriate!
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# 101 Doug
I understand that Obama's maternal grandmother is living in the fragility of her nearly ninety years and that is respected by the press.
I also understand that the Kenyan one is a step grandmother who did not know Obama pere at the time the boy Barack was was born or during his childhood years (which is fairly obvious really since Obama was raised by his American mother with lots of support from the American grandparents).
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"Certanatly more than the U.N and phonies like the Elders, Mandela Tutu and Annan."
------------------------------------------------
The Palestinians blew the chance for peace.
They deserve their hardship
----------------------------------------------
"I've yet to see why the world feels sorry for people who have blown every chance for peace. The world should let the Palestinians stew in their own hatred and misery"
These comments come from the one calling himself Majikirkin .
He claims to not be bias, but has made several more comments with coloured people as the brunt of his examples.
Nelson Mandela , ANNAN and TUTU just happen to be black.
Why are they PHONIES?
Answer that Majik don't just get comment removed.
There are many more comments like that from Majik
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#60,
Thanks for keeping me honest. For some reason I had 69 locked in my warped little mind.
Interesting scenario though, isn't it?
Corrected Sam
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#99
Oh yeah. Looking forwards to Wednesday.
Infatuated Sam
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Ref 109
Actually, I think the one that has been enjoying a free ride from the media is John McCain. The media has brought up just about everything imaginable about Obama, from personal to political, and has discussed it at length. Predictably, some try to offer a slant that favors Obama, while others do the opposite. You can find the same bias among the many conservative commentators that support McCain.
As for socialist ideas, I suggest you analyze the proposals offered by both candidates, which are available in their respective websites, as well as those they have articulated during their rallies and the debates.
The most blatant- and troublesome - examples of socialist solutions are those advanced by Bush/Paulson/McCain which range from nationalization of banks and other financial institutions to the incredible suggestion of buying real estate with taxpayers money.
If Obama had proposed anything even close to that he would have been portrayed as a student of Marx and Lenin; instead we find a complacent media and electorate that either doesn't understand the implications of what the GOP leaders are proposing, or prefer to ignore it hoping it will go away.
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107. Belmons
Okay, so because I'm a Christian just like Obama says he is, I assume he and I both believe in the Bible and in it Genisis where the 'creation' of the world is written. That would make both he and I "Creationist".
And oil is from dinasaurs, not a by product of magnetic fields, rotation and gravity, better known as the internal combustion engine of the earth,...
And the first woodpecker had a rounded beak, he didn't find any bugs so 'he' died. The next woodpecker from the primorial ooze had a pointed beak, so 'he' lived a while, found no wood or bugs,... and died. Then the ooze gave us both male and female woodpeckers with pointed beaks, trees, bugs and within the limited confines of a swamp puddle the size of earth, they found each other and populated the earth.
That happened with every species and every plant, insect and life form here. Cool.
I think I get your point. Now thats an evolutionist,.... ever notice what happens to that word when you put an 'R' in front of it.
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#107 says "Of course the Obama camp dare not tackle this issue, because apparently half the American population are equally dumb and deluded."
Consider this. In my work as an audio engineer in Northern California, I am routinely employed by Evangelical churches or groups. Most don't seem to mind that my hair is long and I wear Primus T-shirts.
One gospel singer from way back who is now 73 years old, and who claims to be a young earth creationist, told me that he knows the world is billions of years old, but he doesn't dare say it. His wife told me the same thing.
It's funny who evangelicals will confide in, and that's why I believe, for many of them, that they hold their convictions for their convenience, and sometimes for the profit.
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EightyPercent #94
"It hasn't been working very well, has it."
It seems the British are not the only ones capable of understatement.
BTW, I am not a Republican. I don't favor one brand of crookedness or incompetence over the other. The vote I will likely cast this time is NO.
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#79
Aurallyanus,
Projecting your feelings onto others again? Just because someone beats you at something doesn't mean that you hate them, especially when you share a common purpose. My business peers take roles all the time that I want, and vice versa. We get over it in about 2 seconds because we are committed to each others success. What you are seeing from Hillary and Bill has been a recovery process from losing something you wanted short term, then acceptance and finally support to help delivery what they believe is necessary to save this country from Financial ruin, i.e. A Democrat in the White House.
Evidence they will vote Republican - none, niet, nada. Evidence they want the democrats to win, they are actively campaigning. It would be the easiest thing in the world for them to sit back and do nothing, passively resist and no one could really criticise. But they are not.
As for businesses being built around profit, ROI and so on. You are confusing accounting with successful businesses. I can't think of a single business whose mission is to 'Maximize profits'. Of course, those things are table stakes in that you have to make some money in order to survive.
The way that a business operates is based on acceptable risk taking, good governance, commitment to the local community in which they serve and a commitment to develop employees so that they give their best. Businesses that do that not only develop a strong customer base but become the 'employer of choice' for highly talented individuals. No business leader talks about maximizing profit as a way of working. None. That is the result of all the things 80% highlighted.
As for keeping on any employee who turns a profit even if they only work 5 minutes a year? They would be fired at the earliest opportunity. Anyone who does not apply themselves values themself over the team. Such individuals are selfish, disruptive and harmful to the business as a whole. They literally self destruct.
As for the bail out, it must be and is becoming a multi layered approach. Yes, liquidity is needed in the system through loan guarantees (as opposed to just 'Lender of last resort', a policy from the 70's which is highly inflationary, requiring the central bank to print money), limited bail outs to support large failing institutions which require shareholders to lose their captal and governments to hold it temporarily, and a consistent, multi lateral international effort with those pesky Europeans and others. Without any intervention right now the rate of foreclosures would rise, lending freeze up and the American consumer would be looking at a major depression. This is not a bail out for fat cats.
Not bad though. Three statements, all based on emotion and uninformed opinion. Good to have you back on form.
Economist Sam
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# 124 Sam
Too good for you. You with your dirty mind.
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# 125 and 126 - Doug
Oh yes ! You tell 'em Doug. Good stuff.
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126
you get a wheel.
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One of the things I've always found odd about the Christian right is that they tend to follow the Old Testament teachings rather than the New. I always thought christianity was more about Christs teachings rather than the Judaic ones.
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Thanks 80%, I don't think either would be of an help anyway. Though I'm registered a Republican, my vote is still way in the air. In assisting my wife in creating a Power Point for her thesis for her degree in accounting, McCains economic (tax) plan with his healthcare plan are found way wanting, while there is true benefit and balance in Obamas. That said, can we afford it?
The return of 'market value' today and hopefully a few weeks of growth and stability in the currency may give additional validity and affordability to the Obama economic plan, the problem that arises with Barry as president becomes Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi. The thirst for power that those two have would undermine Obamas sensible implementation of his plans.
Either way we (my wife and I) run numbers on these plans of either party, the ten trillion plus debt will double in ten years. That means the GDP must nearly doube in order to keep the percentage of debt low against the GDP, either that or we must do as Europe did and create a faux currency equal to and possibly married to the Euro.
With a Global currency and governmental body regulating all market and money transactions, we can maintain an individual countries Sovereignty. Capitolist or Communist or any variation in between will survive for a generation or three till the homogenist reality of a small world and limited resources brings a Global Republican Government. :)
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# 128 Marcus
Sorry I described you as a Republican when you claim that you aren't one. I meant to call you a Richard-head.
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Regardless of who you're supporting, Obama or McCain, there's simply no excuse for this kind of stupidity, ignorance and lack of understanding among the electorate.
As with any case in court, if you're trying to win an argument as to who is better suited and more qualified to hold one of the most important jobs in the world, collect facts, evidence and statistics to support your claim. But don't base your judgment on emotions, and certainly not on your dislike of a certain race (i.e. "he's an Arab"), especially if you know squat about its people. It's frightening to think that these sort of uneducated, bigoted and ignorant people will play a role in the course of politics and human history. And as if this wasn't enough, they do so in the name of religion.
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The article from the Rolling Stone gave a perspective that I had with some hesitation, have glimpses of when I look at McCain's behavior and background.
There are striking similarities of erratic behaviors and impulse control .... issues that keep on popping into my view of Mc Cain. Those traits are also present with W.
Perhaps F. Scott Fitzgerald was right ." The rich are different from you and I "
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I saw an interesting PBS special which tried to explain why it was that Muslims in the US are so much more prosperous and more assimilated than those in Europe. The interesting point may be that many Americans may be anti-Muslim in their views, but reasonably civil and even neighborly to Muslims in their community.
At any rate, I hope the anti-Muslim and anti-Arab feelings caused and felt by the racist and irresponsible do nothing to damage American Muslims and Arabs.
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Ref 48: I agree with much of what you say. The GOP is running a very similar campaign to the previous two. Appealing to base rural religious social conservatism. It worked twice for Bush. There are more of these kind of cultural voters than urban liberals. If Obama does win, it will be mainly because of high turnout of blacks and young people.
McCain has a narrow window of opportunity this week to close the gap. He has some new economic proposals and will stop the negative attacks (allegedly). He also has one more debate to change the game.
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#126 DougTexan
Thanks for that contribution.
I'd never really understood the thinking underlying the Creationist argument before.
Your post certainly explained a lot about America.
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#34 FinMember
I think you are living in a very strange place.
It will be a long time before any bank outside of the US accepts paper issued by a US bank without putting it under the microscope. Other banks may have been greedy it's the nature of capitalism but your regulation system was seriously flawed.
I quote you Harvey Pitt, former SEC chairman
"We've got a 21st century financial services marketplace and a 19th century regulatory model," Mr Pitt says."
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Sam,
I am very sorry that my comment about your dirty mind should appear immediately after a very fine economic analysis.
Unfortunate - but nothing changes. Good analysis - naughty thoughts - bad but clever boy.
What I want to know is what is Paulson doing ? The Europeans have come out and boldly gone where none have gone before.
Is there ANYBODY is that White House or have they all just fled after realising what they have done to the US economy ?
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39 dceilar
Sometimes it feels like teaching the rules of cricket to an American!
Do you understand American Football!!!!
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ref #76
I disgree it was primarily the intellect of the voters that gave us George Bush.
Geroge Bush had stated positions when he ran. Agree or disagree he had them.
Al Gore and John Kerry had no positions or flip flopped worse than Mitt Romney.
This electiion Obama has stated his positions but as thier were two main issues the Dems blasted Bush on 2000 intellect and experience.
It's hypocritical for them to say in Obama's case it's not important.
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69, you an economist? Small wonder we're in the mess we're in. What Oz do you live in? All that PR crap about good citizenship and the rest of the hype is a facade. The rubber hits the road when the CEOs and CFOs meet with the investment community and want hard numbers on next quarter's earnings. That's all they are interested in and if they don't meet expectations, there's hell to pay for it.
Why would I want to see a Clinton back in the White House? They don't have any more of a clue as to how to fix this mess than Obama or McCain has. In fact, Clinton himself signed away much of the regulations by Executive Order at the end of his second term so that "poor people" could buy houses they couldn't afford. That's how we got into this disaster in the first place.
Good thing economists can skate by on hot air or they'd all be out of work this very minute. As for the few who said they saw this coming, they certainly weren't out spreading the alarm to every Middlesex village and farm were they? A mewly protest was the most you heard from them.
BTW, accounting and successful business go together hand in glove. As an economist, let me suggest you consider a few terms you may be unfamiliar with. "Bottom Line." "Net Profit After Taxes." "Earnings Per Share." Small accounting details that differentiate the winners from the losers.
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45 MagicKirin
Magic you are getting as obsessional about ACORN as you are about Israel.
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#126,
Doug,
That depends on whether you believe in the literal interpretation of the Bible in it's currently translated form, or that it is an allegorical collection of writings that may have been modified over time. Or indeed deliberately interpreted, as for example in the King James Bible which was wilfully interpreted to support the divine right of Kings (something few of us now believe in).
The majority of Christians (Anglicans, Catholics) follow the allegorical interpretation. There is no conflict between evolution as a mechanism for delivering God's purpose. Indeed many prominent evolutionary scientists such as Simon Conway Morris are devout Christians.
There is a conflict between a literal interpretation of Genesis in the King James Bible and in the Good News Bible. Less so if read in Greek or Aramaic. That said, the conflicts are not too great.
Creationism is bunk. Pure and simple. Creationism states that the literal creation of the Earth in 6 days can be put forwards as a Scientific Theory. It cannot, it does not pass the most basic sniff test of having measurable results. If you allow Creationism to be elevated to the level of a theory would also allow the Flying Spaghetti Monster hypothesis to be a Theory, as well as Douglas Adams assertion that Earth was built by the Magratheans as a giant computer.
None of which debunks the existance of God. The two are not mutually exclusive, despite the attempts of folks like Richard Dawkins on one side and creationists on the other to say it is so.
Biologist Sam
But Creationism being bunk in no way
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#92 Darkman5850
"Naval Aviators are the most highly trained pilots in the world."
Here we go again. In who's world?
When are you going to learn? US naval aviators may be the best in the US but in the World.
This is just the type of comment that makes you so annoying to the rest of us. That is the 94% that make up the 'rest of the world'
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Young-Mr-Grace (#74), I don't think any generalizations about the Vice President succeeding to the presidency (or not) hold up. The configuration of the ticket depends only on the circumstances of the time. The vice presidency does convey an edge, because only the President and the Vice President (if working as part of the President's team) have experience at the office. Bush the first advanced from VP to the presidency. VP Gore almost did. Often VPs are not candidates for the presidency, or are weak candidates, because a VP is not chosen for his (or her) liklihood of becoming president by election. The only consideration in choosing a running mate is to help the candidate for president get elected.
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#107 Belmons
I can't see a contradiction God put the oil there and then faked the geology. No problem
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EightyPercent #135
I saw all this coming. I'm out of the markets and in cash. I'm looking at the buying opportunity of a lifetime. And you call me a fool? How much of your assets are tied up in this dead stock market? Do you have any assets? Did you ever?
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You betcha I'm jealous of Palin doncha know - here I remain a non-entity while she has become an international symbol for idiocy and prejudice. At least she has given me something to aim for.
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# 139 Cyril
I agree up to a point but what you don't mention is that in 2004 GWB used the politics of fear.
Using 9/11 as a political bonus-point, anyone who demurred from the patriotic, salute-the-flag line was hung out to dry.
John Kerry did not see this coming (he should have done) and his post-Vietnam opposition to the war was his undoing, whatever about the Swift Boats.
I believe that Obama sees all this very clearly in a 2008 context. My personal belief is that McCain's guiding thoughts are entrenched in the Vietnam War era.
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dougtexan post #119.
the 'surge' as we know it is nothing more than political football, it has been oversimplified for political purposes and possible just a temporary solution (bandaid) to a long term problem in iraq.
so calling the 'surge' a sucess is a very hollow statement.
more on this here:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/10/07/holmes.surge/index.html?iref=newssearch
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Chicoan, that's an interesting anecdote. I hope there are a lot of people like the person you describe, who don't really believe nonsense. I wasn't simply having a poke at Americans, I was going by the various polls which suggest that vast numbers of Americans don't believe in evolution.
DougTexan, I'm not quite sure what point you're making. Surely you're not somehow equating belief in evolution with revolution (which no doubt means - shudder - socialism)?
In case you didn't know, the Soviet authorities didn't like the Darwinian natural selection scenario, and a man called Lysenko was given great power and influence because he followed a form of Lamarckism.
You and Obama are not Creationists, unless you reject evolution and believe every species was specially created by God. Am I to take it you don't believe in Evolution? If so, please tell me why God went out of his way to plant so much evidence pointing to its truth. And then we can tell Sarah Palin!
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watching a mccain rally on tv, i can never understand folks at these events, do you cheer even when you know your candidate is teling a lie? (both candidates)
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# 145 ~ Marcus - aka Richard-Head
Goodness you've had a busy day !
I urge bloggers to just click on your name and see all the BBC blogs that you have had a lovely time sounding off on - most of it totally contradictory and nonsensical.
Marcus, Richard-Head, you are a one-man student rag day.
Marcus - you are voted off this site.
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145 mostly erroneous .
As for the few who said they saw this coming, they certainly weren't out spreading the alarm to every Middlesex village and farm were they..
No we weren't, middlesex does not exist.
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ref #146
Let see I still hear Democrats complaining with no proof that Bush stole the last two elections.
ACORN is engaged in an election fraud, so yes I am concerned.
The U.S is not Venezuela or Zimbwabwe where elections can be stolen.
as far as Israel is seems you Jackforge and Marbles are bringing up
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middlesex cricket club does.
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134, Doug
I'm glad to hear that you are still open as to how you vote: I wish myself that Obama had paid more attention to Texas, not because he would win it, but because of what such a statement would symbolise. Although I think Obama is the better candidate, I suspect he will have to be more prudent than his aspirations suggest, and I don't think that is a bad thing: the present incumbent has got the US into an awful mess and whoever takes this on will have to drink from a poisoned chalice with a strong antidote.
Before he began campaigning, I thought of McCain as worthy but dull, but he has made so many crucial mistakes in tone, content, and act that his candidacy involves a far greater risk to the West than does Obama. For a start, both his health and the consistency of his judgment must be held in question, but what really marks him down is Palin and her atavistic instincts. As a President in waiting she looks like a significant economic and foreign policy risk, if only because her record (in asmuch as one can tell) suggests somone with a very high regard for own abilities and a profound ignorance of the world with which she would have to deal. I think it is too much to place her a stroke away from the presidency.
I understand, of course, that some feel uncomfortable about Obama for cultural reasons, others because they don't know how to quantify his judgment and achievement. All I can say is that the first time I saw him speak, long before the demise of Hillary, I knew that he was the greatest politician of his generation. That is, of course, a double-edged sword; but his maturity and calmness of demeanour, his willingness to set the agenda but leave the implementation to others except when his imprimatur is the most important thing, and his capacity for both compassion and tolerance, mark him out as the person best equipped to face the future rather than the past. When Ben Jonson wrote of Sir Francis Bacon, he remarked:
In his adversity I ever prayed, that God would give him strength, for Greatness he could not want.
And of his eloquence he affirmed that:
The fear of every man that heard him was, lest he should make an end.
Churchill famously remarked that Americans always made the right choice having exhausted every other option. My own view is that the US has already exhausted its options, and McCain is not a choice.
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#99, 80%, that's a very interesting article that
you referenced - thanks for sending it my way.
I don't know how many readers of this blog
are familiar with the complexity of the Chicago
political scene, but, to summarize, it is a
country within a country.
MAII, a good team is the basis for any successful
company, so please stop beating up on Bad Sam.
And, Sam, I think that you might as well forget
about getting invited to any White House parties;
a few drinks, and you'll be drooling all over the
place.
Oh, and #142, 80%, I think that what is happening
is that Paulson, Bernanke, and Bush took one
look at the looming CDS crisis, and concluded
that they had to raise the hammer and sickle
over the White House just to get through.
Their original plan of buying up bad notes for
more than they were worth, and leaving holiday
gifts for the banks in their place is just not
going to be acceptable to the oversight committee.
In any case, I have noticed that GW and his
commie pals are now making regular withdrawals
from the bank of G&R.
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# 147 Sam
Sam is wise, is a good take. My mocking the instant take on evolution is just that, a mockery. The same bunk that is being put to Govenor Palin because she is a Christian. Specifically by this piece of work:
107. Belmons wrote:
Whats horrific is that even though he can't confirm it, he tells us anyway,... and it horrifies him. :)
Wait till he finds out Palin is pro-life and believes life begins at the beginning, e.g. conception.
To believe in the bible is not to believe there was no 'big bang' beginning, or to believe there will be naught when we are long ago gone. It is to believe in Divine intervention in the specific creation of man, with that said though, it follows God created all life.
The six days are undefined, were they a billion of our years that equalled each day? As to define "God", within parameters set by limited vision of mankind, I may ask which dimension must I stand in to perceive him? I do know,........ this one.
To believe your brother is swimming at the river is quite different from knowing. Sam, if I may be so bold, "Know Jesus"
just words, just speeches
from a saved Texan
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#142
Good question, I have been trying to hear what he is up to on the grapevine and there is a lot of silence. Hopefully he will act soon and inject some more confidence.
As for the other part? I am merely an admirer, not a single dirty thought has passed my mind. Welll none that i am going to share, that would be ungentlemanly. Plus she could kick my ass.
Sordid Sam
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This comment has been referred to the moderators. Explain.
# 123. SamTyler1969
"#60,
Thanks for keeping me honest. For some reason I had 69 locked in my warped little mind.
Interesting scenario though, isn't it?
Corrected Sam"
Well - keeping you (pedantically) accurate maybe. Honesty I can't speak for (g)
It is an interesting scenario. Then again if you'd predicted say 5 years ago that the probable President-elect in 08 would be a youngish black guy with a funny foreign-sounding name whom almost no one then had ever heard of...
PS I have absolutely no idea why that particular number got stuck in your head.
Now, this Cindy v Michelle wresting match - will it be free-to-air or pay-per-view??
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154. moderate_observer
If I may, personally I think the whole idea of being in Iraq or Afganistan is deplorable, wrong and ill guided. But we are there, because the Government put us there, not GW alone, the whole package shares the whole blame. In the aspect of 'currently' working in our favor to leave is all I want from the surge.
In my humble opinion we should have military bases here, in the states and no where else. Of what use is a base in Germany? Kuwait? Japan? A navy that rules the seas? "not"
I see our political figures so intwined with business interest that one is nearly undefinable from the other, as to the why we are where, follow the money.
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And, just for those of you who were suspicious
that perhaps regulators were interfered with
by special interests, there is this interesting article.
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moderate_observer (#154), I agree that putting Patraeus in charge in Iraq was a significant factor in improving the results there, and would add the removal of Rumsfeld as Secretary of Defense.
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#159. MagicKirin: "The U.S is not Venezuela or Zimbwabwe where elections can be stolen."
I don't think the many voters for Al Gore would agree with that statement.
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#157 eightypercent
Spoilsport, it won't be half the fun without MA11. You'll be wanting to take Magick away from us to soon.
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Belmons 107 Creationists are a wonderful example of what we can call instrumentalists. They will believe in anything if it serves a purpose. Instrumentalists are unfortunately in the majority. They are intellectually lazy and cannot do the intellectual legwork to seek truth.
The truth seeker walks a lonely path, but one that is ultimately rewarding for he or she joins up the dots, to view a picture with clarity and understanding. Yes it is messy in DC right now, but the right thrive on mess and confusion. They are afraid and rarely have the stomach for a real mental tussle.
The web is a rich source for garnering information to verify, prove, disprove opinions and accusations. Unfortunately people often just react to what their emotions tell them and not their mind. We all need to do better at connecting up the dots. Hard as it is for me to say, I felt let down by Bill Clinton, not by his private life, but because he put his own ego ahead of the needs of the country.
BTW When Reagan was President a number of his utterences were linguistically analyzed, resulting in meanings of total zero. SP would run him close.
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#159 MagicKirin
'The U.S is not Venezuela or Zimbwabwe where elections can be stolen.'
Now there's a thing, there are no Chad's in Florida. Of course not silly, Chad's in central Africa.
Jeb Bush wasn't the Guv'nor of Florida either and Bush's first election didn't look like a bad repeat of something in a banana republic.
Magic where do you come from?
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32, ubermensch.
Yawn..........
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#160 jacksforge
It certainly does the but as for your #158 it has no towns or villages merely a homeless cricket club. Sad but true.
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61, ubermensch.
"But ACORN did endorse Obama and they are engaged in electorial fraud."
If a lunatic endorsed Obama would that mean he was mentally unbalanced?
If you endorsed Obama would that mean he was an Arab hater?
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I don't care about anything McCain or Palin do from now on because my home town, Philadelphia came through for me. They BOOED PALIN. Hockey Town was not fooled by this woman who claims to be HOCKEY MOM OF THE CENTURY. The found her out and booed her. Now there is joy in Philly, Mighty Palin has struck out.
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#159 Magickirin
"Let see I still hear Democrats complaining with no proof that Bush stole the last two elections.
ACORN is engaged in an election fraud, so yes I am concerned.
The U.S is not Venezuela or Zimbwabwe where elections can be stolen.
as far as Israel is seems you Jackforge and Marbles are bringing up"
It's always the same with you isn't it? any accusation about Democrats must be gospel truth, any accusation about the Republican's is just a vile slander. It's not your Republican leanings that have generated so much emnity here, it's your fundamental intellectual dishonesty.
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The idea some have floated that the Clintons may vote Republican to give Hillary a better chance in 2012 is one of the most jaundiced and cynical views yet to surface. The Clintons resonate with the electorate because they believe in the democratic policies they espouse. They have also thrown their considerable weight behind Obama's campaign. The Obama ticket represents a desire of the Democratic Party to put the USA back on the right track, to right the many wrongs perpetrated by the criminal Bush administration, and to reestablish the USA as a nation worthy of respect. Conversely McCain is pursuing the goal he has pursued all his life - to gain for himself personal prestige and recognition. The McCain campaign has been built on deceit, misrepresentation, unsubstantiated personal attack, and fearmongering. McCain is an angry old man. The prospect of him in the position of commander in chief, with his finger on the trigger should put fear into every US citizen.
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#167- its obvious these days that corporations are the new government of the 21st century. Our politicians have sold us the idea of not trusting government and elected officials with our well being but instead trust unaccountable corporations to look after our wellbeing. and we have bought it with an apparent smile on our face with the hope of getting some wealth in return. All that apparently has done is leave our politicians with less responsibility to us and more responsibility to the highest bidding industry.
If you want anything done politically, get the top corporations in the world behind it and its done. I suppose that is due to globalisation.
so politicians follow the money and go where the CEO tells them to go. to protect interests and assets.
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McCain has the nerve to always want to engage in warfare and claim heroship. Considering he spent the war as a guest of Hanoi because he did not know not to fly too low, it is difficult to figure out why he is a hero.
Flying 50,000 miles over a city and dropping napon only makes him a hero to Dupont. What did the North Vietnam people do but ask the US to let them have self-determination? This is the same thing that Israel insists on. Why is self-determination OK for white people, but not for Colored people?
Where I come from a hero ain't nothin' but a sandwich.
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# 171 - Timothy
Marcus has had such a lovely time today popping up with his nonsense all over the BBC sites that I decided it was time to call him out.
I'm sure he'll pop up again with a new moniker - maybe Marcus Aurelius III ?
Anyway - I'll think we'll recognise his unique and illogical mindset when we see it again.
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"If I may, personally I think the whole idea of being in Iraq or Afganistan is deplorable, wrong and ill guided. But we are there, because the Government put us there, not GW alone, the whole package shares the whole blame. "
I'll go along with that, except perhaps for the people who were against both wars from the beginning. And even those, few of us as I remember there were, did not, it could be argued, do as much as we could to stop it. Though I think that mildly voicing my opposition did lead to being called a friend of terrorists...
The larger point is that the vast majority of congress were for both wars, and so share the blame. I personally never felt the cries of "He misled us on WMDs!" by congressional members held much water. Their studies in military history alone should have convinced them both wars should not have been fought.
And if they hadn't studied military history, what the $%# were they doing voting for war or peace, on which the fate of their country depended? A larger issue here is that most people reject the idea that you actually need to know something about a topic to make a good decision about it.
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#161 markfrom oxford
"Before he began campaigning, I thought of McCain as worthy..."
Like many US voters you must have relied on mass media soundbites to arrive at this conclusion. You could not possible have researched his life and career which has been filled with decisions aimed at nothing more than to further his own personal agenda, including dumping his first wife who no longer met his requirements. Admittedly you do eventually arrive at the conclusion that Obama is the best choice - a conclusion I must say was self evident to most people who made some effort to cut through the propaganda surrounding McCain's campaign. It is no exaggeration to say that McCain may actually surpass the level of incompetency and duplicity achieved by Bush. According to the records Bush was a better pilot.
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159, ubermensch.
"The U.S is not Venezuela or Zimbwabwe where elections can be stolen."
Naive. Naive. Do you remember the Nixon-Kennedy election - Chicago and Mayor Daley?
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ref #185
I do 48 years ago, and 100 years ago there were seperate water fountains for blacks and whites.
Let's talk about the present, I know you like to go back to justify current terrorism, frauds and other misdeeds.
Some of us move on
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126, DougTexan wrote:
??Okay, so because I'm a Christian just like Obama says he is, I assume he and I both believe in the Bible and in it Genisis where the 'creation' of the world is written. That would make both he and I "Creationist".
______
As it has been said above, the Old Testament is not exactly the foundation of Christianity.
Not even the Pope gets away with beliefs based on those tales these days .
- Fritz_Kraut
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101, DougTexan wrote:
Okay, the 'idiots' part aside, the informed few look at the 'whole' known aspect of this mans life. His leftist voting record, his associations of questionable characters and groups, (Rezko, Rev. Wright, Rev. Flandder, Ayers, Acorn and others).
_____
The 'associations of questionable characters and groups' aside, all of which have been proved to be circumstantial, there is no such thing as a 'leftist' voting record in the US.
Trust me, it doesn't exist, the established US socialist movement.
The US Democrats are to the right of every major conservative party in Western Europe I'm aware of.
Italy doesn't count.
- Fritz Kraut
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ref #178
First I am an independent
And how I am regarded by you and moon bats like Jacky and Lost mean nothing to me.
Second - Acorn is being prosecuted.
The diebold safe company never was.
Bush 2000 campaign never was
You may now go back to your regularly scheduled Obama worship
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so now they are calling mccain's ampaign maccain 4.0 a new version. how many new directions is this guy going to take? he is giving weight to the the 'erratic' claim.
He still have not provided any new ideas , particularly on the current economic crisis.
i think mccain's biggest weakness is his campaign advisors.
they represent the old republican party, when the republican brand is not very popular. their ideas represent the same ideas that have made them very unpopular and currently they have no new ideas for mccain to run with.
hs cliche speeches about tax and spending which right now is so old its falling on deaf ears.(maybe because of the way the reppubs went on a spending nspree with Bush).
If mccain was reealy a change agent he would have not had these people giving him old ideas.
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The following posting was 'referred to the moderators'. I have changed the only possible reason I can see for this. So - here goes nothing.....
[So, just to be clear, Cindy McCain has never, ever ever had a problem with any kind of prescription dr*gs. Any statement to the contrary, even from Cindy McCain, must be considered inoperative.]
# 144 MagicKirin wrote:
"I disgree it was primarily the intellect of the voters that gave us George Bush./Geroge Bush had stated positions when he ran. Agree or disagree he had them./Al Gore and John Kerry had no positions or flip flopped worse than Mitt Romney./This electiion Obama has stated his positions but as thier were two main issues the Dems blasted Bush on 2000 intellect and experience./It's hypocritical for them to say in Obama's case it's not important."
Where to start?
A posting or 2 ago I had the rare honour of being censored by the Mods when trying to reply to Mr Magic. I'm assuming it was due to a reference to the current wife of one of the candidates [hint - not Obama] having had a deleted deleted deleted. I was replying to a post from Magic announcing, with his rare and Godlike insight, that Michelle Obama's soul needed to be repaired.
This is basically what I wrote - "A while ago, when JohnyAAA was posting about 10 times an hour, someone did a rather droll spoof of a typical JohnAAA posting
As far as I can see a typical Mr/Ms Kirin posting is a few lines of sweeping generalisation (almost always badly spelled), devoid of evidence, or even supporting links, where words mean whatever Magic wants them to - people s/he dislikes are invariably 'terrorists' or 'hate groups' - and in which Israel and the Reps are good, Everyone Else and the Dems are bad."
He has kindly persisted in proving my point.
So, Magic, Gore and Kerry had "no positions or flip flopped worse than Mitt Romney". And your evidence would be? Your links to the articles proving this? They had manifestos and agendas, and I am aware of no evidence that they flip flopped on them any more than any other politician. [Except for Romney who was blatantly 2-faced even by political standards, on abortion to name but 1 issue.] And as I recall one of the principles of GWB's platform was to be less interventionist abroad than the Dems....
As for the Dems saying intellect is not important - which Dems? When? This is blatant drivel. Whatever the criticisms of Obama, I haven't even heard the Reps trying to claim he's not intelligent.
And if any Democrat has indeed said experience 'isn't important', they're foolish. Experience is one factor in appointing people to any post. It's just not the only one. Obama has some experience - he also has intelligence, knowledge, clarity of thought, and calmness of character.
The leader of the UK Conservative Party pointed out recently that experience isn't everything - if it was there would never be a change of government. He's never held Govt office, and there's a v good chance he'll be the next UK PM. Then again the same was true of Blair - and whatever people think of him now, I don't think many would write him off as a complete failure.
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80, gunsandreligion wrote:
There are several distortions in the article, which?show that its author, Tim Dickinson, is unfamiliar?with the sacrifices that any serviceman has to?make, and the extreme ones that any POW may?be called upon to make.??As Churchill once said in his history of WWII?of a Japanese admiral who blew a battle,?"Those who have endured a similar ordeal?may judge him."
________
I wasn't aware there are sacrifices being made by 'any' serviceman.
My understanding is, that 5-10% of the armed forces, which are deployed to a war zone, will actually get involved in combat missions.
The rest do suffer from boredom, the local climate and lack of drive-in KFCs .
I guess it's no good for a marriage , either.
As for the Churchill quote, that was about leadership in battle, and has nothing to do with common troops whatsoever.
___
- Fritz Kraut
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"189. At 9:25pm on 13 Oct 2008, MagicKirin wrote:
ref #178
First I am an independent"
Whatever that means
"And how I am regarded by you and moon bats like Jacky and Lost mean nothing to me."
So why resort to abuse? Obviously you are quite upset
Second - Acorn is being prosecuted.
Is it? Far right blogs but is the whole orgnaisaiton being prosecuted?
"The diebold safe company never was.
Bush 2000 campaign never was"
Yes, rather the point eh. But members of Bush's cabinet were prosecuted.
And the stacked, right wing, Supreme Court protects its own.
"You may now go back to your regularly scheduled Obama worship"
It seems the US will be ruled by a black man, get used to it.
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"186. At 9:16pm on 13 Oct 2008, MagicKirin wrote:
ref #185
I do 48 years ago, and 100 years ago there were seperate water fountains for blacks and whites."
The 1940s being a hundred years apparently.
And some want to bring them back
"Let's talk about the present, I know you like to go back to justify current terrorism, frauds and other misdeeds."
Lynching not a form of terrorism?
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#186 magickirin
Where are you moving on to? Perhaps the unknown? Terrorism cannot be justified but there are reasons for the current waves of discontent. There are sources of this hopelessness that many people experience and express in violence. Do you not think it behooves us to attempt to find out what can be done to prevent this type of expression in the future? Education seems to work. But as we can't do that very well at home there's probably not much hope of doing it beyond our shores.
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Emails,flyers (unaffiliated with campaigns) and good old fashioned gossip are how most rumours are spread.
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Belmons wrote:
"What really horrifies me about the whole Palin thing is the fact that apparently nobody in America or on this blog seems interested in her religious convictions. For Pete's sake, she is a CREATIONIST!" {Christian}
"I've found it difficult to confirm but it seems she is probably a Young Earth Creationist to boot."
Whats horrific is that even though he can't confirm it, he tells us anyway,... and it horrifies him. :)
Doug, you are deliberately misunderstanding what I said. I said it horrifies me that she's a Creationist, as it does. Nobody, I take it, denies that she is. I THEN said she was probably a Young Earther too. That would make it even worse. As for that point, when someone asked her about the age of the World, she did say something about human footprints being found together with dinosaur tracks. If she believes that old yarn, she is even more ignorant than I thought.
As for the abortion question, it's clearly pointless to try to argue with someone if they believe a tiny blob of cells is a human being, so I won't try. But I'd like to see what would happen if a woman who'd suffered an early spontaneous miscarriage, took the result to church in a jar and demanded a full funeral service. Not a fringe church, not Palin's (or maybe Obama's!) church, but a mainstream church.
To say that in the Bible the six days are undefined is to pursue the line taken increasingly by Christians in modern times as their core beliefs have been rendered more and more tenuous. As you know well, for most of the last two milennia, Christians took Genesis quite literally, and would have been pretty unpopular had they publicly revealed any other attitude.
As for God's special intervention in the creation of Man, well, why did he make such a botched job of it? There are any number of flaws in the "design" of the human body, which are perfectly explicable in terms of evoultion by Natural Selection, but which do not suggest a benign and intelligent designer.
My original point stands. Creationism is nonsense (as others have said here) and if Palin really believes in it she has betrayed the human reasoning power which you and she believe God gave her.
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ref #193
It seems the US will be ruled by a black man, get used to it.
Actually Simon Obama is a multi ethnic individual.
It's too bad you can't see past his skin color.
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161. MarkfromOxford
I have question for you. Actually, let me state what I'm having a problem with, and maybe you can help me. All my life I was raised with the "You are known by the company you keep" paradigm hanging over me.
That said I now have a canidate that has thrown everyone, friends, associates, reverand for twenty years and family off to the side for expedience because they are less then mainstream. Not a single past friend, girlfriend, classmate nor neighbor have come forward to say anything, good or bad.
I like his party plans, tax incentive, health plan, but he doesn't seem to have any history, almost like he was made up for the canidate, even Michele,.. no girlfriends, boy friends, nothing. No former people like Kerry even had from the college and Military. Like Bush had from the skull and crossbone from college, old oil freinds and investors talked badly about Bush.
There ya are, HELP
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#178 AsaScot
Easy now, you might upset him, he's a sensitive soul and could easily stop posting and then where would we be?
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Is there a reason why people can't talk about the Presidential election on issues and qualifications.
Why do so many posters bring up race as an argument instead?
To quote Deng Xiaping "People dont care if a Cat is a Black Cat or a White Cat they care if it catches mice.
But some people care more about wether the canidate has a d or r in front of his or her name.
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#145
Marcus,
Actually no, I'm not an economist. I employ quite a few though. That's as far as I am going to go because I will start to give away who I am.
You are confusing business strategy with measuring results, again. I'm not surprised, it is a common error made by the small investor and amateur.
Yes investors meet and review quarterly results (accounting results) and there are some penalties should you miss target. Typically some will sell and in the extreme case the board may replace some or all of the executive team. However, this is not what drives the long term investor, nor the institutional one. They are interested in long term growth not quarterly results.
In fact the folks who concentrate on just the numbers generally flame out as businesses, because they don't look ahead to their future in terms of people, services, products and so on. They wake up one morning and they have been left behind.
It is easy to manipulate and maximize short term financial KPI's (Key Performance Indicators), infact companies like Enron made a good run of it for quite a while. But long term they collapse because they obsess over the accounting and not placing the right bets on where their future lies, they don't manage their corporate risk exposure and they don't invest in their employees. These are all things which drive down the short term profit, but establish the foundation for long term consistent growth. The thing that mature investors look for.
To dumb it down, it's like growing a vineyard. Accounting tells you how many vines you have, how big they are and how many grapes they produce. All needed. But business strategy and leadership is about deciding where to put the vineyard, will it be organic, what varietals to grow, whether to irrigate, what vines go where in the landscape, who to employ as pickers, when to consult with others and who to sell your grapes to.
Accounting without strategy and mission is useless. Building the business long term is all strategy and business, measured risk taking and governance. This is the whole reason companies used balanced scorecards internally to drive behavior rather than simple accounting measures. Shareholder value is about more than quarterly results. Unless you are a day trader. And no one listens to them anyway.
As for economists saying this mess was going to happen, they have been doing so for years. From the Economist magazine and FT editorials to folks like Paul Krugman (congrats on the Nobel prize, Paul) have been telling us for years. The problem is that for the past 6-7 years politicians, and the markets, have done the equivalent of sitting in the corner of the room with their fingers in their ears singing 'La la la la la I'm not listening'. This is mostly down to the current administration doing their usual trick of not listening to anyone who doesn't say exactly what they want to hear.
BTW, important safety tip. If you want to try to look smart by throwing out a few financial ratios it helps to know what they are, and not use two that are the same thing. Net Profit After Tax is the 'Bottom Line'. Personally I prefer EBITDA. There are many many others.
Keep that money under the mattress, it's safer there for you.
Executive Sam
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#197 Belmons
I feel that you are trying too hard at this point. Most of the posters to this blog are intelligent and those who have declared their Christian beliefs have also made it clear that Creationism isn't too high up on their list of "must believe in's"
How about the lady's other more dangerous attributes such as her apparent belief that she can fire who she wants. As a Vice President that would be scary as a President that would be just................................
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It seems the same people who characterize McCain as a hero because he failed to take the prescribed evasion action when a SAM locked on to him in Vietnam, are now hailing him for taking the microphone from an obviously, misinformed, uneducated, bigot at one of his rallies. Unless the media are seriously falling down on their job I don't recall the same type of mindless behaviour being exhibited by Obama supporters. What was the alternative? Should McCain have seriously considered this woman's perspective and answer whatever question she may have had - he's not that stupid. What does resonate is his response, which has attracted many comments on this blog. He could have said so much more, but he didn't. Meanwhile the other half of his ticket continues to spread the venom - sounds like a McCain strategy to me.
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Goodbye to all that . . .
Thanks to the handful of people who contribute here who have kept me amused and provoked me into the odd joke or two; thanks also to those few who have given me something to think about in the long watches of the night when I can't sleep.
However, I really have no interest in seeing yet more voluminous repetition of the same old stuff, the same old outdated views, the same rants from people who will never learn anything new, the same old personal abuse . . .
So, I'm going to read a few good books instead. Goodbye.
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#199 DougTexan
Was that question directed just at Mark?
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200, Timothy.
Saturday Night Live has Tina Fey. But that's OK, we have Magic ubermensch.
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As an American, I feel that, as much as Obama/Biden are really the only choice, it's clear that a large percentage of Americans have not learned their lessons from the previous 8 years of GOP misdeeds in the executive branch and Congress, or the 8 years prior to that of a GOP controlled Congress at odds with a Demo executive,
or the 12 years prior to that of GOP executives. (I'm going past my memory to recall the congressional flavor during that time).
That being the case. I can only hope that the old man and the pretty(?) girl win.
It seems that a complete meltdown may be that only thing that can restore reason to the 25 percent or so of this country who are seriously deluded. Maybe.
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#201 MagicKirin
"But some people care more about wether the canidate has a d or r in front of his or her name."
I think he's finally lost the plot.
With that I'm going to bed. All you people over there who have only just got up have a good day.
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MK (#198), practically everyone in the US is multi-ethnic.
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#199
All my life I was raised with the "You are known by the company you keep" paradigm hanging over me.
A common admonishment to those who in the view of some did not keep the right company. You probably were a naughty boy and had to be kept in line. It's rather old fashioned though isn't it? Don't let your daughter on the stage Mrs. Worthington (actors were regarded as loose and dissolute). Officers not encouraged to associate with enlisted men, etc. Today we have a different view and appreciate the value of all individuals. But what has this to do with the fact that Obama is not trotting out all his school friends to join him on stage? His personal life is one of public record. Are you suggesting that during his life he has alienated everyone he came into contact with and not one person is willing to openly support him? On the other hand I do not hear multitudes of associates disowning him. Your assertion that he has "thrown everyone, friends, associates, reverand for twenty years and family off to the side for expedience because they are less then mainstream," stretches the truth more than a little. You want a cast iron guarantee that your candidate is going to fix it all. It's not going to happen. Your job is to vote for the candidate best equipped to lead this country forward. That candidate is Obama. Your assertion that he has no history is rot. You already know about his childhood. He went to Columbia where he earned a BA in Political Science and International Relations. He then earned a scholarship to Harvard where he was editor of the Harvard Law Review and graduated at the top of his class. His work in Chicago is also well documented. Come on! He's bright, intelligent, eloquent, by your own admission you like his policies. Are you just complaining that the tabloid press has not been able to dig up anything juicy in his past? You can get all the titillation (sex, drugs, nepotism, insubordination) you crave by reading McCain's life story, this is just part of what differentiates the two men.
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When McCain was going to challenge Bush in the last election (I would have voted for him), but instead gave up and began to campaign on Bush's behalf, I sent him a Message: "You have sacrificed your honor on the altar of party loyalty."
Still, after Obama was chosen by Super Delegates over Clinton, I considered McCain one last time only to see that he was no longer the man I'd once thought he was - if he ever was that man. The more information that comes to light, the more it becomes obvious that "maverick" was more strategy than truth.
When Sarah Palin hit the fan, I bailed out forever. Hate mongering and assassination by innuendo is unforgivable.
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205, ish-ish.
I hope your realize that you have hurt our feelings.
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198. At 9:57pm on 13 Oct 2008, MagicKirin wrote:
ref #193
It seems the US will be ruled by a black man, get used to it.
"Actually Simon Obama is a multi ethnic individual."
Never said he wasn't.
"It's too bad you can't see past his skin color."
Its a great pity that's all you see
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#205. british-ish: "I really have no interest in seeing yet more voluminous repetition of the same old stuff, the same old outdated views, the same rants from people who will never learn anything new, the same old personal abuse . . . "
As the late President Truman once said, "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen", advice he (she?) has apparently taken. Poor baby . . .
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# 199 DougTexan
"That said I now have a canidate that has thrown everyone, friends, associates, reverand for twenty years and family off to the side for expedience because they are less then mainstream. Not a single past friend, girlfriend, classmate nor neighbor have come forward to say anything, good or bad./ I like his party plans, tax incentive, health plan, but he doesn't seem to have any history, almost like he was made up for the canidate, even Michele,.. no girlfriends, boy friends, nothing. No former people like Kerry even had from the college and Military. Like Bush had from the skull and crossbone from college, old oil freinds and investors talked badly about Bush."
You keep repeating that [a] Obama has abandoned everyone he ever knew and [b] no one he has ever known ever speaks about him.
What, exactly, is your evidence? If any?
Yes, everyone knows he severed links with Rev Wright and his church. People can and will draw their own conclusions about whether he should have, whether he should have been linked with him in the first place, etc etc. So who are all these other people he's 'thrown under the bus'? You say his family. Didn't his sister [possibly his half-sister - he has a complicated family background] give a speech at the Convention? And his brother-in-law?
I've seen plenty of comments from people who have known him, in high school, at university, and after.
I don't recall seeing anything about McCain or Palin's old girlfriends or boyfriends. I didn't assume from this either that [a] they never had any or [b] they've been mysteriously silenced.
I did a quick Google for Obama + friends. Surprise, surprise, the first few that came up were right wing...enthusiasts, enthusiastically promulgating their theories that all his friends are terrorist, commie, Muslim, Marxist pinkos etc. But I did come up with this one quite quickly - link . I also watched a half hour documentary on him this evening on the BBC. Quite even handed, not to say sceptical, I thought. They had more than one person who knew him in his earlier years. They were far from universally laudatory. He's human - who'd have thought? They even suggested - heaven forfend - that he's an ambitious politician.
As I recall you announced you were 'saved' a few posts back. Doesn't your religion have something about 'judge not...'? Obviously that doesn't forbid you from making judgements about people - especially those who run for office. But I assume some evidence is required?
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176 timmy the good
really you know it's not a real county anymore. more of a local postal address allowed so people don't have to feel like they were moved.:)
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Regarding comment No.199 Actually MarkfromOxford I having the same problem ... Is this guy an alien or what? I have noted that the press are pro-Obama, hollywood look at him like some guru, there does seem a strange amount of hush hush. Also I really am trying to understand his Change policy. Yes we all want change, but he is not putting all his cards on the table. I would like to believe like 50% of the US voters that all he says is true!, unfortunately I have this sixth sense feeling, that something is missing, yes HELP. Not that I am a big fan of Palin although she does have some qualities that I like, for instance her drive and positive energy. However her short term record from Alaska is quite impressive. Taxes from rich oil companies going back to the community people, in flush times she did not over spend but reduced budget spending. If you manage to read through the fog of the bias press, it looks like something we are all looking for, a piece of the cake.
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176. At 8:45pm on 13 Oct 2008, allmymarbles wrote:
61, ubermensch.
"But ACORN did endorse Obama and they are engaged in electorial fraud."
If a lunatic endorsed Obama would that mean he was mentally unbalanced?
If you endorsed Obama would that mean he was an Arab hater?
-----------------------------------
I endorse Obama and I'm crazy. Does that mean I have to hate arabs too?
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199, DougTexan wrote:
I have question for you. Actually, let me state what I'm having a problem with, and maybe you can help me. All my life I was raised with the "You are known by the company you keep" paradigm hanging over me.
___
Maybe I can be of assistance.
While you seem to be concerned about knowing nothing about Obama, even though his past seems to be no secret, what exactly do you know about McCain ?
In the middle of the campaign turmoil, it's really hard to tell fact from fiction.
However, isn't it true that McCain's public image heavily depends on his 'war hero' merits, which appear to be forged ?
Isn't it correct that McCain owes his success solely to him being born with the proverbial silver spoon in his mouth ? Just like, hmmm... GWB ?
Is it possible to consider Sarah Palin acceptable as VP, or your local dog catcher , by any 1st world standards ?
Isn't it safe to say the McCain campaign used lies and misinformation from day one, to discredit Obama, while the Dems remained fairly civil ?
Not that the Dems are completely innocent, it's politics after all, but they still appear to hold the moral high ground.
___
- Fritz Kraut
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#212 nessie1945
Welcome aboard. Better late than never!
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#199. DougTexan: "Not a single past friend, girlfriend, classmate nor neighbor have come forward to say anything, good or bad."
I'm surprised you haven't read the scurrilous things written and posted on line by Larry Sinclair, a supposed friend of Mr Obama in the most intimate way imaginable. Perhaps the McCain campaign is holding this in reserve in case the other personal attacks do not work. But they wouldn't stoop that low - would they?
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Ah timmy got the post wrong way round, there, I had not taken you for one of the local sentimentalist wishing for the old days there(MA).
Now re reading I still don't.
phew
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#205 british-ish
I didn't realize this forum was for your personal entertainment.
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177 marygrav
YEEEEEHHHHAARRRRR.
saw it .Question though,
did she have to throw the puck in and did she do it right?
I thought hockey was played on a field.:)
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179 new briton,
welcome to the world of mostly erroneous.
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205, british-ish wrote:
So, I'm going to read a few good books instead. Goodbye.
____
Come on, don't be such a chicken, a sound European point of view like yours is important.
Every single discussion on US politics on the Internet is spammed by Yank cave men, they seem to have some sort of radar for anything anti-stone-age.
Probably a homeland security thing.
____
Fritz Kraut
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#205
Ish-ish. We will miss you, ish.
Sad Sam
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#163
Thanks Doug,
As for knowing Jesus, I am Episcopalian, one of God's frozen people. Knowing Jesus implies a personal relationship that would just embarass us.
The Austin Lounge Lizards had something to say on that subject.
pax vobiscum
Religious Sam
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216. At 11:30pm on 13 Oct 2008, john-In-Dublin
Yahoo search,... Obama+friends, got my space, got political friend got nothing that john states.
Whoop, no big whoop
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#197
Belson,
You miss the point that Doug gets. Creationism is nonsense as a Science. Science being simply a method used to describe the natural world. Creationism and the existence of God are two entirely different things. To argue that God does not exist because Evolution is an observable mechanism is like arguing fish is better than beef. You can buy into the Dawkins arguement that asking questions about our maker are irrelevant because he doesn't exist but that is a rather tedious circular arguement.
God can exist, evolution can be the mechanism. If you wish to prove God does not exist through science, then you must take that hypothesis and elevate it to theory through measurable, observable, repeatable experiments. My bidy isn;t attractive doesn't cut it.
Theologist Sam
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#227
A felon with a 27 year record of balckmail and no supporting evidence? Forget witnesses, he doesn;t even have dates and locations to be checked?
This would be funny if Palin brings it up. McCain could never do it but Sarah may be that crazy.
The funniest thing today was watching McCain defend his rallies when interviewed by Dana Bash. Apart from looking like he wanted to smack her when she asked the question his response of 'People have said the same thing about me at Obama rallies' was incredulous. 'Terrorist'? 'Kill him'? She should have said 'Can you name one incident so we can check?'. But maybe she thought he would hit her.
The poor old guy has lost the plot.
Sad Sam
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Coulda, woulda, shoulda ... many people seem to think that politicians should have minds that work at computer speeds when presented with information to which they must respond rapidly. Analyse your *own* reactions when *you* have been on thin ice, and you knew that your derriere was on the line. The roads to either political perdition or salvation present many forks -- and yet so many folks believe that McCain should have been able to finesse his remarks as he was taken by surprise by that "(Obama) is an Arab" sneak attack? COME OFF IT!!! That woman was likely a Democratic Party plant anyway.
As an extraterrestrial observer, I think you Earthlings are far too touchy about skin colour and religion, not to mention political affiliations.
As far as we Offworlders are concerned, you all look alike, and behave alike. And even with infra-red vision, at night all cats are grey.
Find something *real* to get irate about, won't you? You can thank me later.
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Kirin:
Have you read any of Greg Palast's reports for the BBC and other media outlets on the 2000 and 20004 election? How about Jake Tapper's coverage of the 2000 Primary and General Election? It appears to me that Bush stole three elections (2000 South Carolina Primary, 2000 General, 2004 General).*
* Legal disclaimer. I will not state who I am voting for, due to the fact that I am a poll worker. I will state that A. I am not voting for Obama. B. I did not vote for Gore or Kerry. C. I did vote for McCain in the 2000 SC Primary.
Also, not all the questioners of the official 9/11 theory are "liberal". Morgan Reynolds, a Department of Labor Economist under George W. Bush and Paul Craig Roberts, Assistant Treasury Secretary under Reagan, as well as a number of people further to the Right.
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#232. SamTyler1969:
#227
A felon with a 27 year record of balckmail and no supporting evidence? Forget witnesses, he doesn;t even have dates and locations to be checked?
The number you refer to doesn't mention anyone, let alone a felon! What number/person did you really mean? It must be late at night for you since your typing is usually immaculate.
And don't feel too sorry for 'Ish-ish; he's gone to have his liddle wounds and bwoozes bathed by Mandy and Reinaldo who live so near and den, when he feel better, baba may wesurface to tell us more tings about the Bwitish an how he appwooves of Shawia.
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115
Have you actually read the posts? I can count dozens of posts critricizing Obama. It depends how you do it wether or not you get heard. what did you say you naughty boy?
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228, Sam:
I 'weturned' to make two apologies, one to any of those with whom I have had both entertaining and instructive and interesting exchanges, in case they thought I'd included any of them in my complaint about ranters.
The other apology was to be about my error over flag-flying, intended, however, for the person who wrote this:
"And don't feel too sorry for 'Ish-ish; he's gone to have his liddle wounds and bwoozes bathed by Mandy and Reinaldo who live so near and den, when he feel better, baba may wesurface to tell us more tings about the Bwitish an how he appwooves of Shawia."
But I've decided not to bother about that now, only to say sorry to any other readers I may have misled over that. I'd simply forgotten the protocol had changed.
Now, 'newbriton', can you blame me for finding a resort to the jeering of the primary school playground entertaining?
Really, I can't be bothered when people resort to that kind of silliness. So I leave you with [Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]this invigorating little ditty.
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237 was an apology over my mistake over the protocol of flag-flying ay Buck House (I'd forgotten it had changed).
I quoted the last para of 235.
I can only say that reading jeers straight from the primary school playground rather reinforces my reasons for not participating any further.
I'm pretty weary of the moderators here, as well, since they won't allow me to link to an mp3 of a song which expresses my views nicely, even though it is copyright-free.
Readers will just have to google 'Bandiera rossa', 'marxism.org' and 'lyrics' instead. I recommend, given today's US announcement, stanza seven . . .
Now, if the moderators will only let this past, it is my final goodbye.
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#202
EBITDA? Sam, have you been at the crystal meth?
EBITDA is a useful measure, certainly, but it's Emmental-like in it's holiness. In a non-religious way, obviously. I will grant you that capital-intensive companies use this to give their shareholders a feel for cash flow before loan payments, taxes, depreciation, and amortisation charges reduce the income statement to ashes - which they usually do - so it certainly has popularity on its side.
Thing is though, EBITDA leaves out so many expenses that to think of it as a complete measure of profitability is to have a mind as closed as Sarah Palin on the issue of mooses rights. It's not even slightly difficult to stretch, tweak, and generally shoehorn accounting policies to fit your given situation and boost EBITDA. I know, it’s what I’ve done for the last couple of decades. Beating up the auditors and reinterpreting GAAP and IFRS were always a fun part of the job, though, like pulling the wings off flies, somewhat sadistic.
In my experience, the analysts almost always adjust EBITDA to add back various elements – different ones used to add back different bits, mind you – so that there’s never one totally accepted measure of profit. The one thing that all of our banks and investors agreed on was the primacy of cashflow and, specifically, our recurring cash conversion ratio. And that, for me, is how you measure a business.
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230 DougTexan wrote
"Yahoo search,... Obama+friends, got my space, got political friend got nothing that john states. "
Well try Google
As I did
As I said.
In my posting
Just tried it again. Got same result.
Article I referred to was 11th article to come up.
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The quality that is most evident in McCain's reaction to the fact that he is losing the election is his volatile temper under stress and his inability to handle two things at once. He cannot think clearly on his feet and maintain balance. This clearly precludes any thought of being President of the U.S.
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218
" for instance her drive and positive energy. "
does not Obama have drive and energy?
"Taxes from rich oil companies going back to the community people, in flush times she did not over spend but reduced budget spending"
the tax back to alaskans is a deal long standing she just carried it on, and the town she left in Debt because she wanter a sports hall in a town that has no sewerage treatment(BTW Crap takes a long time to break down when frozen)
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222
DC you previous support for the Clinton is showing up in the choice of subjects you raise.
241
King of the hill
Cotton Hill = J mc cain
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#239
Cabernet Sauvignon.
Endorfin, I agree. But your discussion is at a different level to the one with Marcus.
Accountant Sam
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#235
David,
Apologies. 222, Your guy Larry.
Sad Sam
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#43. jacksforge: "DC you previous support for the Clinton is showing up in the choice of subjects you raise."
We have to be vigilant and anticipate what the other side will raise - no good ignoring the possibilities.
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#245. SamTyler1969: "Apologies. 222, Your guy Larry."
Sam, not my guy! But he is still out there and appearing at McCain-Palin rallies; desperate campaigns can take desperate measures, the truth be damned.
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#238. british-ish: "I can only say that reading jeers straight from the primary school playground rather reinforces my reasons for not participating any further."
In the event that you read this, even if you do no longer participate, you really must grow up and learn to take the hard knocks with the rest. Your post has the tone of a spoiled brat who says 'it's my ball and I'm not playing with you any more." Sulking about it doesn't do anything - come back and fight - that's what a really big boy would do, but perhaps you're not man enough. Give it try anyway - and learn to say "I was wrong"; you'll be astonished at how easy it is and, more importantly, how much your standing rises with others. Honestly, it's true, try it - you'll like it!
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Just wanted to chime in on the Palin factor. The fact that McCain's camp thought that putting in any woman would equal the Hillary factor is an insult to all women. Palin has nothing in common with Hillary Clinton except her gender. Palin is dangerous with her ignorance, almost proud of it. Former Hillary supporters will not give their votes to Palin. My concern is that some Hillary supporters will withhold their votes or give Hillary the 'write-in' out of frustration that Obama did not fully vet her as a VP. Though if the polls even out closer to election day, I doubt that a Hillary supporter could stomach the risk of allowing McCain/Palin to take the presidency by not casting a vote for Obama. Ah, politics.
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Is Mrs Arab an 'agent provocateur'?
It is unimaginable that a charitable minded
McCain-who has an adopted daughter from
Bangladesh-would countenance such slanted arguements. Despite the fact that he was placed in an embarassing situation he did his best to deflate it, while covering his rear.
Therefore the question may very well be asked whether Mrs Arab was indeed an 'agent provocateur' from you know which
camp.
Secondly, politics is a different 'kettle of fish'
from being an Air Force pilot. These need quite different abilities. In any case you cannot go by hearsay evidence of perhaps disgruntled elements. What really matters in war is whether McCain conducted himself in the best military tradition of heroism, and
of that there is absolutely no doubt.
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dc i know
but I'm starting to think the opposition ids too stupid to think for themselves and so they spend a lot of time trying to find something, by trawling for ideas.(not a very creative group that is for sure)
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McCain vs Obama verbal duel (debate)-a knockout punch for McCain?
I certainly think it is so. On economic issues as well as other issues like health care, McCain sounded much more pragmatic than
Obama.
Also McCain was brimming with confidence-with a confident smile-and was quick on the
uptake for almost every one of Obama's
probes and thrusts.
There was no evidence of the so-called "temper" that some media
commentators were mentioning about. He
was no doubt surprisingly energetic, considering the fact that he is 'not-so-young'. (Justin, the look of his hands could be attributed to the beating he got from the
Viet Cong and not because of any other suggestion.)
McCain looked and talked as you would expect from the President of the most
powerful country on earth-no affected posturings, like some others for him.
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I think it was in a tail-spin; so, what could have taken place to stop this problems from getting out of control...
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