Palin disaster, Powell endorsement
She's not funny and she's not clever. And it is time to say clearly that she has probably lost this contest for McCain.
Sarah Palin is indeed a disaster for the presidential ambitions of John McCain. This is not opinion: it is fact. During the height of Palin mania - with some in the British press suggesting she was the new Margaret Thatcher - I wrote this piece for The Times suggesting that she was on the ticket "to serve a purpose but not to serve in office" and that social conservatism could not and would not drive the nation this year.
Well, the trouble for McCain is that the nation will not buy the idea that she can - Quayle-like - just serve quietly in the shadows. She might become president. That is what has driven thinking Republicans to despair this season. Now this. If Lieberman were the choice, or even Romney, I wonder if Powell would have stayed quiet?
Anyway it is probably too late now. I notice even in Arizona - McCain's home state - the latest poll suggests a less than double digit lead for the Republican candidate. This Obama strength in the oddest of places is a sign of his power but also a hint of a crisis if McCain were to pull off a win in the electoral college: McCain cannot win the popular vote, can he? Obama can only lose by messing up in Ohio and Florida and Pennsylvania. And that mess-up would be precipitate a full-scale political crisis...
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Surely that's the last nail in the coffin for McCain- being opposed by a former (Republican) Secretary-of-State. This will swing some votes Obama's way and reassure those still unsure of his readiness to lead. And as for Palin's appearance on Saturday Night Live, as much as I respect her for taking it all in good heart, it can't have done the McCain-Palin ticket any favours, can it?
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The national polls have tightened a little, but mainly in Appalachia because of the fear issue and not elsewhere.
McCain will probably win Ohio unless the racists stay at home in large enough numbers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbbcVNOMqSk
Powell's words are absolutely devastating. Wonderful to watch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh_c5bbvmqc
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It's a shame that McCain didn't choose Powell
or Condi Rice as VP. Perhaps they didn't want
the job?
If either of those two had been on his ticket,
he could have won.
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You talk about "messing up" in Ohio, yet it seems to me living here in the Buckeye State that it will always be a toss up.
I wonder if it comes from always being a swing state that makes far more people determined which way they lie and only a few swing voters. Hence, all the litigation already to try to disqualify Democrat-leaning voters.
What I haven't heard anything about is the lack of the evangelical effect. Last time, my righter-than-right church held voter registration drives and vote-your-values drives. This time there's been nothing. Is this enough to make a difference?
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That was some endorsement and i'm so happy that finally someone has made the point publicly that i made some time ago, if he was a muslim so what and finally turned the patriotism and scaremongering back on the republicans.
"this is not america, this is not how we should do things over here." never a truer word spoken.
I can almost forgive him for lying to the UN. But in that case i think he was bullied into it. this seems genuinely honest and more republicans should be taking a astand about the direction their party has taken.
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Watching the Palin clips on Saturday Night Life was almost excrutiating - she seems not to have realised that the joke was not only about her but was on her. A bit of self-deprecating humour on the part of any politician can be take the edge of otherwise harmful parts of their personalities but this was a savaging of the worst parts of Palin's make up and she simply didn't get it.
The Powell endorsement of Obama will no dount be more damaging not because it was a Republican crossing over and backing a democratic presidential candidate but because of the savaging of every tactic the Mcain-Palin ticket has used to try and unseat Obama - there must be many, many more influential republicans desperate to jump ship so it will be interesting to see if any have the guts to take such an honest and pricipalled stand.
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The choice of Palin has done McCain great disservice.
While he's a Republican many independents and Democrats used to respect, she is mocked mercilessly. I just saw this on a street in Manattan (link to a blog, which isn't mine)
http://www.campaignfreak.com/2008/10/storage-compani.html
The ad's a hit.
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douglasroman - I've had plenty of criticisms to make of Justin Webb's coverage of late... but snobbery? Really? The American class system is worlds apart from ours, so I genuinely don't think that's where he's coming from.
Whenever Hillary Clinton tried to imply (or rather, was perceived to be implying) that criticism aimed at her was the result of latent sexism, conservatives vilified her for "hiding behind" her status as a lone woman in a field of men. Lo and behold, once Palin was named to the GOP ticket, anyone who tries to ask legitimate questions about her is not only a sexist attacking a defenseless mother, but also an elitist snob attacking a representative of heartland America.
If Justin had made any kind of value judgment here (or in the Times piece) about Palin's background and cultural outlook, your complaint might be justified. However, all he's saying is that Palin and her ilk can no longer claim to represent the political zeitgeist. As for claiming she's been a disaster for McCain...
That one's pretty undeniable at this point, and he does cite his sources.
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Colin Powell?
This news is anecdotal at best
An almost forgotten retired Army General that did not finish the job in Iraq the first time...the ONLY thing to Colin's credit is he does not stand to gain a job from Obama's election like all the other endorsees that have been salivating for their messiah to hire them for the last 8 years...
Maybe if the Pillsbury Doughboy endorsed Obama CNN would carry that 24 hour "breaking news" too
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...... *expected....... not surprised...... after all, I have the endorsement of x4 former Secretaries and some x200 senior retired Admirals and Generals*.
Well John you've got it all sewn up then havent you......
Funnily enough I watched the x5 former Secretaries of State live (including from the lips of HK) and heard them all proffering advice that was counter to the McCain Foreign Affairs approach. Miraculously, the GOP issued a statement straight after the event, confirming that HK did not state to pre conditions etc etc etc ...... back and forth stuff!
Albeit not of high relevance, but it would be instructive to see the x200 claim put to any Truth-O-Meter test and to know what they really think..... fantasy island stuff. I also believe the biggest sigh of relief on 4 Nov might just come from the lips of Gen D. Petraus.......
It took great courage of Colin Powell to stand on a public forum and make such a statement. I believe the fact that he has diligently waited and analysed unfolding events and how respective candidates have led campaigns; reactions and actions to be the truth of the matter.
Absolutely nothing can be taken for granted and not sure, but looking at McCains body language, a certain twinkle in the eye and sense of defiance plus the *we,ve got them where we want them* quip etc, I really do suspect that he has got some sort of finale electoral time bomb ticking..... a dirty one..... a desperado one, beginning of next week, watch this space....
Bill
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Andrew_J2008.
do you hear that swishing sound. it's the sound of you and the rest of your ilk desperatly grasping at straws.
"Anecdotal at best? An almost forgotten retired Army General that did not finish the job in Iraq the first time"
Nice glossing over his time as secretary of state, being only the least of his roles in republican governments. not least the roaring success the second effort has been. Plus McCain has trotted out other much older secs on his behalf but i guess they are ok?
"salivating for their messiah to hire them for the last 8 years..." I don't even know who you are taliking about here? Do you cos it ain't obama?
"Maybe if the Pillsbury Doughboy endorsed Obama CNN would carry that 24 hour "breaking news" too" I think that would be news worthy but it was NBC he spoke too, at least watch the video and see the dignity and the disappointment in his own party that comes through in every word.
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#10,
I agree with you to an extent but don't you think if one of Blair's ex-ministers came out and publicly backed Cameron in our next General election that that would be pretty big news and that some of Britain's voters might be swayed on who to vote for?
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I thought Palin seemed very uncomfortable on SNL. She seemed like she was just trying to get through it.
That Powell endorsement at this point in the game must have devastated the McCain campaign, no matter what McCain told the press.
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5
Elitist, Socialist, etc.
These labels and much worse started to fly in the face of voter realization that there were plenty of unknowns about McCain the candidate vs. McCain the senator, and expecially about Governor Palin.
Powell's distinguished career was marred at the close of the Secretary of State chapter by how he was used by the Bush administration. Cheney had more resources cherry-picking and embellishing intelligence tidbits, in an effort to end-run the CIA, than Powell had to review the CIA facts. Powell was still too much the good soldier to ask about veracity more than once and went to the UN with his administration's assurances that he was telling the complete and true story about Iraq. This is all detailed in the book "Hubris" (by Isakoff and Kane, I think?).
Eisenhower erred in believing assurances that the U-2 was untouchable and risked one more flight before the 1960 summit with Kruschev, Kennedy erred in believing assurances that the Bay of Pigs would start a liberation - and Powell has surely learned a similar lesson that should serve him in good stead rather then prevent him from returning to public service.
But Powell, like other Republicans who diverge on a fundamental issue, will be slammed by many as a 'Republican in Name Only' or RINO.
The very concept is less common within the Democratic party (no one talks about "DINOs"), and that says a lot about which party is really inclusive and believes more in bipartisan compromise.
As for Palin, I cannot believe that anyone buys her anti-spending claims. She governs a state that gets more than $2 from the Federal government for $1 it pays in Federal taxes, has high state taxes on resource extraction, and although the 'bridge to nowhere' was not built Alaska kept that money for other projects.
If the rest of the country was run like that the national debt clock would have run out of digits years ago!
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#5, douglasroman, I believe that you're being a little
unfair to Justin. The problem with Palin is that
her message is divisive and exclusionary, not
that she comes from a humble background.
There are plenty of moderate independent/democrat/
republican people like myself who believe that
both parties pander to extremes.
But, on the bright side, with Colin Powell weighing
in, I can now vote for McCain without worrying
about Palin eventually getting in. I have a knack
for voting for the losing side - this shall be the
third time in a row for me!
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Did anyone watch John McCain's response to Powell's speech?
There's a mini clip on the BBC page with the headlines for this story, and McCain is saying "I wasn't surprised" by Powell's words.
I'm pretty sure that those who have read this news by now are thinking about the contradictions, but I just wanted to start up a discussion about it.
After saying he wasn't surprised, McCain says that "we are still friends", now please please please, why would you give that excruciatingly useless remark after saying you're not surprised that a fellow Republican will vote against you?
Was McCain trying to ease the situation by saying that he still respects him? He could have used some kind of counter argument but instead he chose to stop himself in yet another rhetorical phrase.
....maybe he was in a rush to another meeting but he should really have been a bit more shrewd and a little less cynical.
I'm in the UK, but if I was in America and in politics, I would strongly suggest that people remain clear-cut in their explanations, Colin Powell was very direct and it made it so much easier to listen to him.
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douglasroman-
I am quite happy to admit that Justin Webb may be an "ellitest, upperclass and knows it, snob," but he did not - alas - go to Cambridge. Just the LSE, I'm afraid.
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Most responses so far, have thrown in the towel for McCain. I would say a sign in Manhatten doesn't really matter as we know what NY will do anyway... Sarah Palin can laugh at herself and others, because she is a real person whom happens to go to work in a political job. Not the other way around. She is a phenomenon for not only the media, but most of the establishment of both parties. For people outside Manhatten and other Metropolis', she is exactly what we want to send to Washington. I am reminded through all of this not to look to the local newsprint (owned by a major media company)and big 3 (ABC, NBC, CBS) news, as it is hellbent against real debate and they are not unbiased as this election proves. As their true colors have shown against Sarah Palin, I am fearful of the media and the status quo of the establishment in Washington to even care about the average American, unless they happen to agree with them. I have actually met Colin Powell, but I also would imagine, if he had firm convictions, his endorsements, post military, or government service, would be easy to establish months ago. This is too late to sway anyone, and is simply jumping on the media bandwagon...
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10. Andrew J2008
........ Andrew, since when was a US military commander vested with political authority to *finish any job off*?
The political plicy decisions were the direct responsibility of the US Government of the day...... those decisions being expedited on the ground by the US military.
The military chain of command running down from Joint Chief of Staffs, Colin Powell, to Gen H. Norman Schwarzkopf, commanding CENTCOM, on the ground
Bill
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Powell took about 10 minutes to restore sanity to our political discourse. His opening riff was amazing. It is funny to see the Republicans suddenly despising this American hero. Granted, Democrats would have done the same if the roles were reversed -- but they aren't reversed.
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10/20/2008
I'm a United States citizen and I just can't get over how my country is making a wrong turn and it's a turn for the worse, if Obama gets elected people are going to be shocked , he's a Democratic Socialist ! I would equate his politics with Hugo Chavez, this we don't need . And the funny thing is their are many in congress who are just like him. I can just imagine if and when he got into office and his buddies on Capitol Hill will be in their glory and they will destroy this country. I don't remember when I have seen a politican who has mezmerized the American people , it's almost like a rock concert or Jesus Christ retruned to earth, it's almost sickening. Please note I'm not a Democrat or a Republican , I always voted on who I thought was the best man. My family came to the US in 1885 and they would be horrified at what's hapenning now, I just pray to God that we as Americans don't make a stupid mistake.
Oh yes, please note I'm not prejudice , my step-father was black , and I have many friends black, white and hispanic who don't like him at all and they don't trust him....
Joe
Santa Fe , New Mexico, USA
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Powell, as a military man first and foremost, has given perhaps the most important endorsement of a presidential candidate in living memory. Apart from his concise explanation of how and why the McCain-Palin ticket all went wrong for him - a total repudiation the the Republican party's overall campaign stratergy - he has pointed the nation in the direction it needs to be heading by suggesting that Obama represents the building of a new generation of leaders to deal with the problems and challenges the present lot have sadly failed to do. Coming from a highly respected statesman and a former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff this has to be sound advice that any military man or woman can understand - afterall supporting and building leadership in times of crisis is perhaps one of the most important functions of any military. A changing of the guard is sorely needed and this fact has certainly not been lost on Powell - let's hope it is not lost on the American voters!
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19
Now the 'Mainstream Media" argument against Powell.
This new 'MSM' talk is the idea most dangerous to America that I can think of from this election.
Any number of founding fathers would cringe at the idea of citizens not using all methods to be informed, not reading newspapers, and instead tightening their minds around ever more insular (non-mainstream) groups.
The tremendous irony in your post is that McCain/Palin represent the entrenched Washington incumbency you speak of.
Finally, about the NY comments: Since Iowa nearly a year ago, plenty of Americans have shown that you don't have to be a dreaded 'coastal liberal' to vote for Obama as the best leader.
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Two things.
"I can just imagine if and when he got into office and his buddies on Capitol Hill will be in their glory and they will destroy this country." melodramatic much. If the country wasn't destroyed by 8 years of bush i doubt either Obama or McCain could do it.
Palin on the other hand....
"I'm not a republican but obama is a democratic socialist."
Only a republican would call Obama a democratic socialist.
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22. Joe
Joe....... thats a name that resonates a bit...... can you explain exactly how you see Barack Obama is going to take your beloved USA down the pan Joe?
Please give x3 Domestic Policy bullet points and x3 Foreign Policy bullet points so readers can be clear what your issues and concerns are.
Finally if you feel John McCain to be the better man to lead his Republican administration out of the current Republican mire, do explain why? Who are you going to vote for...... can you tell us?
Bill
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I disagree with Colin Powell and Barack Obama on several points in General Powell’s endorsement. If Obama is qualified to be president, then Sarah Palin is also qualified to be PRESIDENT. John McCain chose a strong lover of God to fight abortion and same gender unions. They both acknowledge prayer, a powerful weapon in all problems.
The war on terror is radical religionists against ungodly principles. The Islamists are fighting against abortion and same gender unions coming into their nations as well as other indecencies. The generals fighting since 2001 have missed the point because they do not understand or respect the word of God that declares that God fights against those who fight against His ways. The best strategy to fight the war on terror is to choose people who love God's ways. The primary message of the Qur'an is to follow the whole Bible. People who love the Bible will have something to talk about when then meet face to face. I do not know what Barack Obama would talk about; certainly it wouldn't be his party's platform of abortion rights.
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#10: Bitter much?
Colin Powell is a very well-respected man who served our country a greater part of his life. I presume it's okay to trivialize his service but NOT okay to trivialize Mr. McCain's service to our country?
He is not forgotten in the least by those who value his efforts in the most difficult of situations. (I have always believed he resigned from the Bush Administration because he was no longer willing to participate in the sham they were pursuing. Condeleeza Rice, on the other hand, is a different story obviously.)
Colin Powell did not come out and insult Mr. McCain. He said both candidates would be good presidents, but the one we need NOW is Senator Obama. He explained his well-thought-out reasons for coming to this conclusion with reasonable points that exhibit his well-intended hopes and aspirations for the direction this country needs to take. And he's right on all points.
I know it stings...but the swelling will go down soon. Get over it.
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Powell knows what is needed in terms of character, intelligence, integrity and judgment capabilities for our new President and 'vice-President. He and the editor of the Chicago Tribune are very concerned about the weakness of the the Republican's Vice-President nominee and the ability of the Presidential nominee to affect systemic real change. The complex world wide financial crisis, our severe domestic needs, coupled with our historic national debt,and our illegal pre-emptive attack on Iraq requires outstanding leadership to regain our respect in the world. Obama and Biden are statesmen who can best represent the will of the American people to quit this illegal immoral war and reorganize our government to serve the taxpayers, not the wealthy minority.
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McCain wins the electoral college but not the popular vote... Unlikely but should it cause a political crisis?
That's the way the US system works. Swing states have far more say and get far more attention than solidly red or blue states.
Is it "democratic"? Not sure we in the UK are able to criticise either. Here, we do also get Governments with unassailable majorities who also win far less than 50% of the popular vote....and then implement highly aggressive and divisive policies
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bluejay #24 I am the one the media is supposed to represent, not resent! From the Founding Fathers to this day, politics has meant there is a media presence in the opposite view, but lately have joined forces against the common man. There still is the notion that America, must be Strong! Never surrender your ideals to the ones who want to take them away! I guess that's why I have been referred to as "bitter and clinging", what a prophetic statement that was...
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Sometimes as people age, and begin to fail, their personal traits become exaggerated; they become a parody of themselves. This may be happening to John McCain. That would explain his rash selection of Sarah Palin, a backwater governor of almost no competence and pathetic education.
A man with all his faculties would have realized his error and tried to recitify it. But, no, McCain has compounded his bad judgment with yet another brainstorm. He now brings Joe the Plumber, who it turns out is neither Joe nor a plumber, on stage to speak the inmost thoughts and fears of the American voter.
How much more embarrassing can it get.
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MarieDevine
Your ignorance and intolerance is quite frankly mind boggling even amongst some of the other neanderthal points of view we get here.
Not everyone believes what you believe. People have the right to life their life how they wish.
There is nothing indecent with same sex unions. If there was surely god would punish them?
Abortion is a neccessary evil due to a lack of education, family planning options and of course more than one rape. You should be ashamed to call yourself christian and force a young girl to carry to term the child of a man that has raped her. Or force someone to have a child that they do not want simply because they made a mistake. I wish there was a better way to do the actual procedure, every pro choicer does but there isn't.
It's not your body, it's not god's either otherwise we have no free will and are little better than slaves, or pets.
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"politics has meant there is a media presence in the opposite view, but lately have joined forces against the common man."
Please quantify that statement, what exactly is the common man?
Give me an example of how the media have joined forces against this so called common man.
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#32 "What I'm saying is the folks who make more than 250, that that marginal amount above 250 they're gonna be taxed at a 39% instead of 36% rate. I think when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody." That's what Obama said to Joe! So are you awilling to fess up another 3% of your income?
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10. Andrew J2008
From what I've read, the decision not to "finish off the job" in the first Iraqi war, was made by GB Snr based on the advice of his many military and intelligence analysts. The scenario they painted was exactly the one that we now face, with Iraq split by religious and tribal factions and the country virtually ungovernable without a permanent occupational force presence.
Bill, there was a precedent, when Eisenhower refused British political advice and claimed that Berlin wasn't a military objective.
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35
"That's what Obama said to Joe! So are you awilling to fess up another 3% of your income?"
You answered the question yourself
"What I'm saying is the folks who make more than 250, that that marginal amount above 250 they're gonna be taxed at a 39% instead of 36% rate".
So it's an extra 3% for those who earn over 250k and only what they earn over that threshold will be taxed more. So if they earn 260k only the 10k above will get the extra taxation, not the whole amount.
aren't facts amazing instead of fear mongering by getting it almost right but wrong enough to sway people who don't read all of the facts properly.
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17, Dippeh.
I believe that McCain, like all Washington Republicans, was disheartened by Powell's endorsement of Obama. That may explain his wimpy comment. However, the media is already saying, more or less, that the endorsement was a racial, and therefor not important.
I doubt that the endorsement will have much of an effect on the voting public.
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#37
So you are ready to give up more of your earnings than the guy who did a little less? Penalize your success? How Un-American is that?
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21, RalphMa.
It is not surprising that Colin Powell spoke plainly and honestly - he is not running for anything.
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#32, Ms. Marbles, there you go again, trying
to confuse us with facts. Besides, because you've
voted for Obama, your eyes have been blinded,
and you simply don't realize what you are doing -
you're making Joe a genuine hero!
I'm not sure I'd want to pay him $50 to clear my
drain, however.
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38
"I doubt that the endorsement will have much of an effect on the voting public."
I should bloody hope not! If you need Colin Powell or anyone else to tell you who to vote for it's pointless.
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31 Braun SA
I also think the media is not supposed to resent us, and should represent us by independently informing, perhaps even telling us things that make us think twice.
It's up to us to become informed with some skepticism of BOTH sides, not just the one we initially dislike.
Maybe I missed a little of your points, but the 'rally against the MSM' battle cry coming from Gov. Sarah Palin is simply dismissing any press who dare to disagree with her or ask about her qualifications. I don't simply buy into anyone saying "they're all out to get me, don't believe them" without learning something myself. Working class Americans are being pandered to with slogans and slanted attacks from McCain-Palin more than we ever have been from Obama-Biden.
The only people who I am concerned are trying to steal my ideals - ideals that formed after I was brought up as an "it's all very black and white" republican then across 7 presidential elections became a more skeptical and deeper-digging voter - are the McCain/Palin team members who are dismissing not just some, but nearly all of our journalism as the evil 'mainstream media'. That's one of the more dangerous and un-American things I've heard in this election.
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BraunSA: What an elitist comment. You have no basis to ever suggest that someone sitting behind a desk making millions of dollars works any HARDER than the laborer working his you know what off 12 hours a day digging trenches or working a field in 90 - 100 degree heat. The only difference is one had a greater ADVANTAGE in life than the other. I challenge any CEO on Wall Street to spend 6 hours doing the hard labor required to run the basic infrastructure of our country...to serve them meals from behind hot stoves, to go home with every muscle in their body aching. Just because someone makes 260000 a year does not mean they have worked HARDER than someone who makes less.
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Do not underestimate the Palin effect. She is capable of driving white low-income folks to the polls, a huge voter group that Obama doesn't even dream of coming close.
Besides she is much more articulate than, say, Pres.Bush. And this guy stayed on for 8 years. There's nothing beyond anybody in America. And that's exactly her (America's) beauty.
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with regard to Powell's endrosement it may be damaging for the Rep party and its pres.candidate but it certainly is much less serious than having a former VP candidate (Liberman) change sides
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#43 Perhaps the MSM and all media are the biggest loser in this campaign! And regardless of the outcome, where is the "honest broker" in telling me of the days events in Washington?
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Un-American is a political bs buzz word.
Yes i do expect the more you earn the more you give. You can afford to give a bit more.
Heaven forbid we penalise the richer, lets give them tax breaks and raise taxes for middle to low income families.
I recently went through a tax threshold and it hurts in the old wallet but i'm secure in the knowledge that when i have kids there are good schools for them, they won't swipe my credit card in the ambulance if I have an accident and i can enjoy parks and facilities.
I'm not giving my tax dollars away, i'm contributing to stuff i use or may use in the future.
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#44, regardless of how you passed the magic threshold of 250K per year, (alot of hard work goes into that I assure you), you would not be keen on giving even more over to either president... Call that elitist if you will, but I challenge you to want to do that when you are at that income level... (What's wrong with the same percentage?)
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#39
Income does not always have much to do with who does a little bit more or less.
Relatively low-paid firefighters, police, soldiers and teachers (none of whom would be taxed more under Obama!) amply prove that.
And yes, I think it is American, and even more Christian. At least it makes what we render unto Caesar more equitable.
The people who are entitled to complain first-hand about Obama's tax plans are the wealthiest few percent, and there are notable exceptions among that small group who instead express an old-fashioned civics attitude about paying taxes to keep our society safe, educate our kids, build infrastructure, etc.
Those among the rest of us, including most small business owners, who think Obama will tax us more are either misinformed about Obama's well-detailed tax plan, or should just vote libertarian out of sheer principle.
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49
McCain-Palin are not advocating any kind of flat tax. Yes, for those making over $250K Obama will raise that last bit of income to the terrible tax levels of... Ronald Reagan.
This microscopic view of the $250,000 threshold of Obama's tax plan ignores the fat-cat tax breaks under Bush, which McCain would continue, that helped drive up our national debt as we've borrowed from China to pay for $16 Million a day in Iraq.
good night.
Huckabee did have some interesting thoughts about a flat tax, balanced with simplified deductions.
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Braun SA: I personally don't have a problem with the same percentage but it is never the same percentage. Under Republican leadership it's always all about giving tax cuts to the rich....in addition to all the loopholes their clever accountants have already figured out for them. I advanced recently from one taxbracket to the next higher taxbracket and I'm not about to complain about paying more taxes when I've been quite blessed by making more money than many people in my position at my age. I'm good at what I do, but I would never consider myself any better at what I do, or more deserving, than someone doing just a good of a job sorting trash or being a cook or driving a cab at a job offering a lower payscale. At the end of the day, we're all going home tired, hungry for dinner and hoping our families have everything they need to sustain them. By the way, those CEOs may have worked hard, but most would not make their goals without the hard work of lower and middle income workers.
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#50 Most people are Libertarian in princible, but reality ( a Big Government already in place) demands more. So we are stuck with a choice, either of which will not lead us where we want to be... I will wonder though as I go to sleep how Obama and the Democratic Party became the champion of the small business owner? Perhaps you watch too much television..
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McCain showed some really poor judgment in picking Palin as a running mate. I don't know if his advisors are pulling the strings or if he was just so desperate to get Hillary Clinton's votes he acted on impulse. Either way, to be blunt; it really screwed him. He showed poor decision making skills and that he lacked or lacks the ability to see the consequences of his actions in the future. In other words, to think before he acts. Whether he has been running his campaign or letting his advisors give him the worst advice ever, the message here is two fold... America doesn't need someone who lets others pull the strings to "lead" this country. And we DEFINATELY don't need someone else in office that acts on impulse and thinks about the consequences only after it's too late. It's a shame too, because underneath all of his campaign rhetoric, I know John McCain is a man to be admired for his service to America. That’s all.
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51
sorry, I meant $16 Million per hour, not per day... although some estimates would put that amount per half-hour.
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The report # 4 from twokidsandadog is fascinating and probably confirms the arrogance of McCain's camapign. It really does seem that he thought his self-proclaimed maverick image and his POW history would hand him victory on a plate, without realising that he was up against one of the most astonishingly disciplined and courageous politicians that the world has ever seen.
He should have taken more notice of the fate that befell the Clintons.
He should have paid more attention to the party base. If he had done that he would have had no need to hurl the unprepared and uncomprehending Palin at an astonished world.
As Parrisia above says, Palin will appeal to one entrenched sector of the electorate, but it will be at the expense of the unity and diversity of which Colin Powell spoke so eloquently and which should be America's greatest strength.
If McCain wins it will be through exploiting fear and division. That is not a mandate for government.
If he loses, he must invoke his patriotism in the cause of healing the the festering wounds that he has so carelessly exposed.
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As long as you know a vote for Obama means your taxes, even if passed down by the 250K or higher business owner, will be going up, up, up and up.
Good night all, I hope you have dreams of more money and time for your family and not your government...
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While I think McCain would have always faced an up-hill struggle,given the state of the Economy,there is much truth in what you say about the selection of Palin denting his prospects. Given the wide variety of credible choices he could have made,it was a bizzar decision.
I am relieved that America has enough class not to elect a former beauty queen as Vice - President.What woud have been the next step down from there ? a Hollywood air-head maybe ? (Paris For President anyone ? ).It might have been only a matter of time before it was a Porn Star.
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As it stands, in a fair election, McCain cannot win the popular vote. But if our elections were fair, we wouldn't be in the mess we are now. For Obama to "win" this November, he must not only win decisively, he must do so by a margin exceeding the voter disenfranchisement, caging, and other shenanigans of the RNC and their cohorts. This is not conspiracy "theory;" it is a matter now of public record. Fortunately, even though the levels of cynicism (Palin, for chrissake!) and fraud reach new zeniths, so too has the level of electoral scrutiny - largely from a vary wary grassroots constituency of sincerely concerned (if slow-to-waken) patriots. What an exciting time to be an American!
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Justin Webb, 20 Oct 08: "During the height of Palin mania - with some in the British press suggesting she was the new Margaret Thatcher..."
Now who might that have been? Let's have a look:
Justin Webb, 4 Sep 08: "I wonder if the USA has found its Margaret Thatcher."
Build 'em up to knock 'em down!
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57
I don't "know that", or agree
I will dream of better education and health insurance for my family, less national debt, safe return of brave Americans from Iraq, fairer taxes, and programs that will benefit America in the long term, in other words some of the reasons I'm voting for Obama.
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... interested to get an explanation of employed and self employed status in the USA?
The Sen Obama policy I interpret as being that individuals earning up to USD 250k pay no additional income tax and those over this threshold move into a 3 percent higher tax band? plus even higher tax brackets for those earning more, so the questions for clarification, include.......
1. Mr or Ms *Employed* in a job, in an organisation, doing whatever, falls into one of these two brackets and possibly higher?......
2. Mr or Ms *Proprietor* of a small business is effectively self employed. Does their small business *net taxable revenue* after legitimate expense items deduction, equate to taxable earnings as per No1 above? presumably, any other people the self employed Proprietor employs will be paid, but presumably their gross revenue is also treated as *Self Employed* for taxation purposes?
Only an opinion, but your average *Joe the Plumber* proprietor would be performing magnificently on his own to exceed USD 250k pa?
Sam...... lets have a view ? !!
Bill
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#27. MarieDevine: "John McCain chose a strong lover of God to fight abortion and same gender unions. They both acknowledge prayer, a powerful weapon in all problems."
Back on Independence Day, you also wrote "God wants us to REPENT, and be saved, and so do the radical Islamists. Tell your favorite candidate you want a godly government. It would only take a clarifying statement in the US Constitution that we were formed a Republic to be run with godly principles, the word of God."
Religion seems to be the only guide for your vote. If prayer was so effective, and 'god' so merciful, why was it that, for example, the US was attacked on 9/11 or that Hurricane Katrina caused so much damage and death? Americans do not wish to have a theocracy, either run on Christian or Islamic principles.
The First Amendment to the Constitution clearly states that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion." I don't know what could be clearer than that - the Founding Fathers did not want religion or religious issues to be a part of the American way. The example of Europe, where heretics were burned at the stake, hanged or decapitated in the name of a deity clearly would have been in living memory; the United States was set up as a secular nation but permitted individuals to practice the religion of their choice without the interference of the State. You would negate that and make Christianity the sole religion for everyone. Even if it were, the New Testament says not one word about same gender unions or abortion. You simply project your own wishes onto the gospels and letters which make up the book. That's not Christianity, it's bigotry.
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One has to wonder where do people like Cafferty of CCN get off criticising Palin, making insulting comments and asking questions that they never dared ask about Pres.Bush for a whole 8 years
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As an educated, self-made female citizen of the United States working in the media, I am completely disgusted by the underlying prejudice and arrogance of these observations. It may surprise all of you to know that the majority of the "voting" American public do not base how we exercise our higest civic responsibility on celebrity endorsements. We base our decisions on the issues, the candidate response to the issues and the liklihood of the candidate's resolutions having any true impact on them.
Why would any free individual blindly relinquish the right to vote by making their choice based solely on popularity? The danger of these endorsements are that they lead us away from the true democratic process and all that we have sacrificed to earn the right to our individual opinions. Do you all really believe that the average American cannot be trusted to think for themselves with regard to this election?
And worse yet, that if we do not support Mr. Obama - that means we must be war mongering gun toting Appalachians.... honestly, how condescending. That is just as distasteful as some conservative views that most of the new voters supporting Mr. Obama are all either homeless, on welfare or former junkies that Acorn signed up. Aren't blogs of this caliber meant to be open forums of spirited debate based on a knowledgeable grasp of the actual facts? How about discussing that for a change....
Incidentally, Governor Palin's appearance on Saturday Night Live earned that show it's highest projected ratings in 14 years.... but even if it was a "bust" rather than wildly popular - in the end it won't affect how our vote.
This election cannot arrive soon enough for me - the media coverage has degenerated to the point of being absurd.
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It is significant that someone with high political sture has said what many have thought. sp is not vice presidential material and was chosen as apolitical move to help a campaign in trouble. She will actually hurt mccain rather than help which is deserving for such a poor choice. She is laughed at in Europe. Foreign experience -first passport in 2006. Ridiculous.
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63 David_Cunard
Very eloquently put.
Rank intolerance demands rebuttal.
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I doubt very much that Ohio and Florida have that much of a necessary bearing on the final outcome. Obama will win the Kerry states (he is ahead in all of them comfortably, including Pennsylvania), and he will win Iowa. That gives him a base of 262. After that, he can win either Virginia, or Colorado, or New Mexico and Nevada. In fact, he will probably win all of them. Anything else is a luxury. I think Ohio and West Virginia will stay red; Florida Obama will probably win, and North Carolina will be close.
Interesting to note over the weekend that the papers in Atlanta, Houston, Idaho, North Carolina, and Denver came out for Obama (all having backed Bush in 2004), and their primary reason was Palin.
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#5 douglasroman:
"It is funny how the BBC always acts like they are so concerned about the middle class but as soon as the come in contact with one they can't hide their contempt."
Yet somehow you think that the belief that all members of the middle class are as willfully ignorant and proudly foolish as Sarah Palin is somehow not a sign of contempt?
There are plenty of members of the working and middle classes who do not take pride in their own willful ignorance, who do not enshrine narrow-mindedness as a virtue, who are more than capable of answering simple questions about their own reading habits and the structure of their own government unprompted, and whose "small town values" do not include xenophobia.
To claim that Sarah Palin is in any way representative of the working women of the heartland is not only insulting; it is also, in and of itself, rather stunningly elitist.
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#63 David_Cunard
Hear hear.
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# 69
John McCain proudly announced on TV at the weekend that Palin was a counterpoint to the feminine liberal agenda.
That was a stupid remark for a politician because it alienates a whole large and vocal group of the electorate.
At least the oft-mentioned Margaret Thatcher had the sense never to dwell on the fact that she was a woman or even whether she had feminist views or otherwise. I was no fan, but I do admire the way she kept feminist politics of any kind well away from her carefully created image.
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#65 - Kenza
I agree that people shouldn't need endorsements to help them vote .... and the idea that people will vote a certain way because Tom Cruise or Tim Robbins or anyone says so is just silly .....
BUT this election is different and alot of people are contemplating a vote that they would never have dreamt of ..... therefore a respected Republican who endorses the opposing candidate is significant, if only that it may help waverers feel secure and less alone in making they may feel is a risky radical choice.
Powells endorsement will bolster the courage of the waverers against returning to the same old disaster of the last 8 years.
Peace to all
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#63 - David , thnks for the eloquent and elegant riposte to the bigotry of MarieDevine. It saves me writing it.
Why is it that we can just call these people "Christian Fundamentalists" not social conservatives?
They don't seem to care much about the rest of society unless it conforms to their narrow worldview .... if they really cared about the helth, education and welfare of the people they'd vote Obama.
Hypocrits.
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Post #53; BraunSA wrote: "#50 Most people are Libertarian in princible, but reality ( a Big Government already in place) demands more. So we are stuck with a choice, either of which will not lead us where we want to be... I will wonder though as I go to sleep how Obama and the Democratic Party became the champion of the small business owner? Perhaps you watch too much television.."
Obama became the champion of the small business owner on the day that he revealed his tax plan. It has been estimated that around 90% of American small businesses make LESS than $250,000 per year. This means that 90% of American small businesses will BENEFIT from Obama's tax cuts
If you can find me one small business owner who doesn't want a tax cut, I'll buy you a drink at McCain's inauguration party.
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#58 Webpendragon
.... porn star for President? I don't know, but it would make the debates more interesting!
In Italy we've had ex-porn star La Cicciolina in politics since 1987 - she bared her breasts at the election.
Beauty Queens are another matter however .... they just marry soccer players and look nice on TV shows!
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More on the $250,000 per year distraction here: http://tinyurl.com/62lkxt
A quote:
>>
The Census Bureau earlier this week reported that the median household income was $50,223 in 2007—up slightly from the last year but still below the 1999 peak. So a household that earned $250,000 made five times the median.
>>
I think people earning FIVE TIMES the median income can afford to pay an extra £2.47 per day in tax.
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22. jfbaraba wrote:
he's a Democratic Socialist ! I would equate his politics with Hugo Chavez.
1) Democratic Socialist - A person who believes in Socialism, brought through democratic means. Obama - Centrist may be but certainly not a Democratic Socialist.
2) I would equate his politics with Hugo Chavez. - How? Chavez was a Revolutionary Socialist. Obama is not Revolutionary or Socialist.
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Colin Powell endorsed Obama to redeem himself. He must has deep regrets about his part in invading Iraq.
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Colin Powell's endorsement of Obama was reasoned and thoughtful. Palin is not prepared to step in and neither McCain nor Palin will release their health records. Every vote will count and most realise the importance of this election. We cannot afford another novice, let alone one with extreme views.
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Who thought it was a good idea for Palin to go on SNL? She came out looking a complete idiot, like one of those people who everyone else makes fun of but who is too witless to realise.
And for once TV revealed the essential truth of the person.
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No.42 everyonesiscrazy
agree, people still need to look at the facts.
Justin, we already know Palin is down, lets all kick her some more, this is so typically English press.
Sorry, can we not focus on other important issues like who is going to turn the economy round.
Yes I admit I like certain issues of Palin like reducing budgets, however I also agree with many of Obama/Joe Biden ideas for our children's future. As parents we need to forget our own egos and leave something for future generations.
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63. , David_Cunard wrote:
That's not Christianity, it's bigotry.
Here here!
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# 73 ksyeug
"Powell endorsed Obama to redeem himself"
I don't follow your logic. Powell was misled by Bush/Rumsfeld/Cheney and it is the people who lied to Powell who need to redeem themselves.
Powell still has great stature and unparalled experience and through his discretion and dignity over the past four years, he has earned the right to speak his mind.
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following up on my previous msg about Powell endorsing Obama as being less significant in terms of damage done compared to Liberman becoming a Republican, let me remind everybody that this (Powell) is not just one of the Iraq War architects but the very man who actually tried to "sell" the need to go to war to the rest of world. Remember the ridiculous presentation at the UN?
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# 81 ~ Justaline
The trouble is that Sarah Palin is happy to use her not inconsiderable vocal powers to encourage division and anger.
If - in a free country - she has the right to that, we have an equal right to debate the effect that she is having and even, I am afraid, to worry about her motives.
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Palin is basically a female very folksy George W Bush, and that didn’t do him any harm. The reality is the media loved her for a while but the financial meltdown makes people think about who they would want in charge if they themselves need help, is it the Republican Conservatives whose ideology appears to be every man/woman for themselves and if the vulnerable go to the wall then tough, or Democratic Socialists who tend to favour the common good?
Its the same in the UK and the reason Labour and Brown have recovered in the poll's. Palin has become an easy target in a changing situation, she is no different now (and I for one would not vote Republican) than she was when the media couldnt get enough of her.
Another factor is that the Republicans cannot distance themselves from the risks and greed on Wall Street that led to this situation, eight years of Republicanism has meant the rich have got super rich whilst the working class now have to pay the bill for the super riches “success”.
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I am not remotely upper class, and I never went to a university, so the facile "English snob" label can't be stuck on me.
Sarah Palin is unfit to be VP not only because of her gun-loving and her penchant for vicious insults, but because she is ignorant and uneducated. There, I've said it!
Anyone who is so ignorant of science, of the nature of evidence and how to evaluate it, that they refuse to believe in evolution, is uneducated. Unfortunately, as many surveys have shown, a significant number of Americans are equally ignorant and uneducated. However, even this is apparently insufficiant to make her other than a liability to McCain.
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off topic question:
If it were possible to vote Bush in for a 3rd term, would those of you who thing Obama is going to flush the country down the pan vote for Bush if he were standing in McCain's place?
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douglasroman I sincerely hope that you do not associate yourself to Palin. She is not representative of the middle class because she is not middle class herself. she is in a class of her own!!!
If you stop to think for one second and still come to the conclusion that she would be able to fix the economy or even come close to understanding the adivce she is given to fix the economy then you are barking mad. And therefore are also in a class of your own, maybe with Palin.
You are surely not speaking for the average man in the street.
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It's great that he stuck up for muslims. It must be hellish to be muslim in America right now. If I were muslim I'd be sick to my stomach that the McCain team see Islamic faith as a sign of danger and terrorism. It's fearful and pathetic.
Powell's endorsement (and SNL's recent further crucifying of Palin) must certainly signal the end for now of Republicans in the Whitehouse, a new government and just maybe a new America. At last.
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As an English observer, I cannot believe the selfishness of BraunSA. How lucky he is to be earning over $250, 000 in the first place.
But all his comments seem to add up to "screw anyone earning less than me; I want to keep all my money".
Where is his compassion for those worse off than himself? He should be thankful he is so well off and be happy to contribute another 3% on his earnings over $250K, to help others less fortunate.
By the way, in England the we are taxed at 40% on earnings above approx. $65,000 but I am happy with that because it contributes to a decent society that doesn't charge for Health care for instance and looks after those who can't help themselves.
That isn't "socialism" just basic decency!
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Justin has finally shed his disguise, and i am really happy for him..I had always suspected that he was an apologist for the dems, Obama and their Ilk.
This blog in my opinion, is intellectual and Journalistic gangsterism. Journalists should be aware of their role in society and should always be careful not to take sides. their reporting should be balanced and fair.
so what if Colin Powell does not think palin's choice is a wise one, thats his personal opinion. might I say, thats one opinion in millions. powells endorsement means more to Obama than it would mean to Mcain. Obama is a novice and non-starter in foreign
affairs and he badly needs endorsements like this to spin his way through.
Meanwhile, i bet if Powell had endorsed Mcain, the same media would have either not reported it or savaged the endorsement
by linking Powell to Bush,the Iraq war, then Mcain. The media bias for Obama is pathetic and nauseating.
By the way, if anyone thinks Powells endorsement has nothing to do with race, its confirmed that such a person must be living on Mars. lets face it, Obama is making history as the 1st black man with a realistic chance of being the 1st black president of America. Powell had be dumb if he didnt go back to his roots.
This is the main reason in my opinion, why Powells public endorsement of Obama will come back to bite him. If everyone were to go back to their roots in America, does anyone think Obama will ever become president? Its sad that the race for the white House, has gotten to the stage where RACE is such a driving force for Black people.
I cant say i blame them. I am an African, and i am heavily despised back home in Nigeria for supporting a competent and accomplished wise Old white man ( Mcain ) over and above a smooth talking brother who i feel is way ahead of himself.
I admire the strides Obama has made, but sadly for all obama fans on this board, i just dont think he is competent enough to be the next president of America. Being the president of America, requires more than rhetoric, it requires a stellar character.
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Justin,
If you'd been listening to me for the past two months, when I've been telling you that Palin is the most ridiculous political appointment in the history of American politics, you wouldn't have to now concede how ill conceived this political appointment was.
Let me tell you here and now, after Colin Powells endorsement of Obama, McCain is now toast. Barring a miracle, there's no way that he can win this election. The fact that one of the most revered members of the Republican party publicly denounces his VP appointment, speak volumes. And if Colin Powell can see how ridiculous said appointment was, believe me, the whole world can see it.
This campaign will be remembered mainly for two things, namely, McCain hugely underestimating the ability of Barack Obama (like Hilary), and secondly, the misguided political appointment of Palin. To say that McCain exhibited gross misjudgement in the latter, is the understatement of the year.
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# 91 - we need another comment from Sam who puts the tax issue better than anyone.
Colin Powell was pretty much on the mark yesterday when he explained that people who pay taxes are the very people who get them back in kind - in infrastructure, education, healthcare, security etc.
And why does nobody ever mention all that taxpayers' money funding GWB's ill-conceived military adventures ?
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"McCain To Endorse Obama"
I'm serious - he wants to. Here's the logic.
* He's a maverick.
* His voting record is bi-partisan.
* He's a reluctant negative ad campaigner - he'd prefer a straight campaign but his party machine and some supporters won't let him (this is fair enough as he is, after all, their representative).
* He knows that the country needs to be healed and that only Obama can do this.
* His strength is foreign policy - he knows more than anyone that the reputation of the US is at an all time low and that again, Obama is the best person to change this (see how he is adored in Europe).
* He knows he couldn't achieve any of this with the forces of the Republican Christian Right breathing down his neck, if he were President.
* His party demanded a check to balance his "liberal" ways, so he gave them what they thought they wanted. What he actually did, with his Palin pick, was hold a mirror up to this section of the party. They liked what they saw: she's hot and homely (or homey as they say in the US). Now they're starting to see - via the criticism in the media - how others see them and it's a nasty shock.
* The Republican Party is broken and needs to go away and fix itself: McCain knows this and he's prepared to be the fall guy in the party's biggest ever election loss. After all he's a war hero, who has selflessly taken one for the team before. However, all the time he's electioneering, he has to play it straight or it will become a hollow victory for Obama, which would ultimately undermine his long term credibility as President.
Or you could go with the theory that McCain truly believes that Palin should be the President after him, which I think is quite disingenuous to a distinguished Senator like McCain.
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The phrase 'Democratic Socialism' was has been popping up recently in posts has an anti-Socialist bias to it. Socialism is not anti-Democracy, in fact, the opposite is nearer the truth. The right wing have always tried to tar Socialism with Soviet Communism (which blaming Marx for is similar to blaming Nietzsche for Nazism).
Here in Europe, especially in the UK, Socialism has always been equated with Democracy. Socialism played an important part in working people getting the vote and use of secret ballots amongst others. Chartism was the first mass working class movement. Socialism was born out of democracy. The British Suffragettes called themselves socialists! If these right wing Americans cared so much about democracy in the world, they should give Socialism some respect in this regard. Perhaps these right wingers are not so pro-democracy after all.
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No. 85 eightypercent
Okay fair comment !
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I knew justin wont publish my post. what media bias..to think i had a lot of respect for bbc's fair reporting
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
# 95 TijuanaDonkey
Good one ! I think there is some shrewd truth in your argument.
Watching the videos of both candidates at the New York dinner last week it struck me that McCain looked a lot happier sitting alongside Obama, with only an overdressed Cardinal between them, than he ever does with Palin.
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22
Joe, you call him a socialist, but whose govt just nationalized the debt of the Wall St bankers?
I'mean, that was a pretty Chavez-like action,wasn't it?
And about destroying your country, well, i reckon you give your nation too little credit as it will take more then that to destroy the US.
Granted though, that your current govt is raising the bar in respect to ruining a country...
(Do you really not see the mess your in!?!?)
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Journalists should be aware of their role in society and should always be careful not to take sides. their reporting should be balanced and fair.
so what if Colin Powell does not think palin's choice is a wise one, thats his personal opinion. might I say, thats one opinion in millions. powells endorsement means more to Obama than it would mean to Mcain. Obama is a novice and non-starter in foreign
affairs and he badly needs endorsements like this to spin his way through.
Meanwhile, i bet if Powell had endorsed Mcain, the same media would have either not reported it or savaged the endorsement
by linking Powell to Bush,the Iraq war, then Mcain. The media bias for Obama is pathetic and nauseating.
By the way, if anyone thinks Powells endorsement has nothing to do with race, its confirmed that such a person must be living on Mars. lets face it, Obama is making history as the 1st black man with a realistic chance of being the 1st black president of America. Powell had be dumb if he didnt go back to his roots.
This is the main reason in my opinion, why Powells public endorsement of Obama will come back to bite him. If everyone were to go back to their roots in America, does anyone think Obama will ever become president? Its sad that the race for the white House, has gotten to the stage where RACE is such a driving force for Black people.
I cant say i blame them. I am an African, and i am heavily despised back home in Nigeria for supporting a competent and accomplished wise Old white man ( Mcain ) over and above a smooth talking brother who i feel is way ahead of himself.
I admire the strides Obama has made, but sadly for all obama fans on this board, i just dont think he is competent enough to be the next president of America. Being the president of America, requires more than rhetoric, it requires a stellar character.
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#63 David Cunard:
Fantastic rebuttal!
and
#91 davesview
"That isn't "socialism" just basic decency!"
Brilliant! That, for me, just blew that whole ridiculous 'socialist' argument out of the water.
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Well I've just cast, and mailed my vote by absentee ballot. My part in this quadrennial charade is complete. Will I be out of Iraq in time to vote in person at the next election?
I honestly believe that Obama has got a lock on the election. Colin's endorsement is huge, and Obama's raised a record astounding $605 million for his campaign, $150 million last month alone. That does not include contributions to the DNC.
Pundits should soon have an opportunity to see exactly what is underneath the plain brown wrapping. I do hope it turns out to be something more positive than a Clinton.
I think it was Winston who said; "The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter."
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105 - R-Snail
I also hope you'll be home from Iraq to vote in the next one ..... maybe next time it'll be different (ha ha)
Winston Churchill also said "Democracy is a terrible form of government, but it's still better than all the others"
Peace to all
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#103. I think your right that race is the elephant at the table and in truth the only way McCain can win.
However, I don’t agree that Powell is simply voting for his roots, if that was the case then Condalisa Rice would do likewise and she hasn’t.
I hope Obama can bring about an age of decency and consideration.
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#103 icetayoa...
"By the way, if anyone thinks Powells endorsement has nothing to do with race, its confirmed that such a person must be living on Mars. lets face it, Obama is making history as the 1st black man with a realistic chance of being the 1st black president of America. Powell had be dumb if he didnt go back to his roots."
You, sir, are a fool.
This sickens me. Your comment says, basically, "OK, this guy might be a respected statesman, former high-ranking general and secretary of state, but he's black, right? So he's gonna back the black guy, right? Cos they all stick together in the end, right?."
Can you not, for one moment, imagine that Powell might be backing the person he thinks would be BEST for the job... not the one whose skin tone is most similar to his own? Is this idea beyond comprehension? Whether you agree or disagree with Powell or anyone else, it's ridiculous and offensive to over-simplify matters like this and to assume that it simply boils down to a question of race.
It really is pathetic.
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The decision to pick Palin as his VP demonstrated a colossal failure of judgement by Exxon John.
Although the pundits suggested early on it would always be a "Democratic" year, the fact is the polls were tight enough before the conventions to suggest the race would be close enough for a Republican win.
John McCain is a Republican who's centrist enough to have won this election. Yet, by surrounding himself with the wrong people and succumbing to his advisers, he's now just about lost this election.
And as for the possibility of a McCain win with Obama leading the popular vote? I believe it was John McCain who once said the American people just about accept that result once every century... but only once.
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103. icetayoya
.... another enlightening piece icetoya. maybe because its the middle of the night where you are in America (as stated a while back) and you need a battery recharge that would help to synchronise diligent forethought with keyboard......
There are black men and black men just as there are white men and white men. I am happy to tell you, front on, that both Barack Obama and Colin Powell have rightfully earned the accolades bestowed on them. I personally salute them for having progressed through to where they are today, career wise, on the basis of strong values; exceptional personal qualities, leadership and professionalism. Where you slip under the ice is pulling out tyour para 4 race card. Sorry chum...........
Stand these two men next to two white men, who you might just have voted for over the past eight years, messrs Cheney and Bush and compare the qualities listed above and transparency of real inside character and drivers......?
Bill
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# 108
During his three score years and ten, Powell must have worked with people of every colour under the sun - and most nationalities too.
I would think that he left behind the non-issue of skin colour some fifty years ago.
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103 Icetayoa ......
sorry but you're really losing your grip as the Republicans slide into nothingness.
Journalists have a duty to report the news .... a Republican elder statesman who endorses the opposition candidate, and actively critises his own party's VP choice is NEWS as it is significant and unusual. To not report it would be censorship.
Your implication that black Americans would only vote for Obama because he is black is insulting ..... also by the same warped logic you would have it that all American women will be voting for McCain-Palin now that Hillary is not an option. Duh!!!!!
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It’s clear that the Democrats tend to base their argument on reasoning and many Republicans on instinct and fear.
Given this fact, I have prepared a small Republican Primer:
The Republicans can certainly save themselves in this election if they implement the following well-proven measures at their rallies (several of which they actually already do use):
1) Hold rallies at night, when people are most amenable to persuasion.
2) This allows for torches to be carried and dramatic lighting to be used, preferably in impressive stadiums.
3) Have more participants wear uniforms and have them march and stand in ranks.
4) Use a great quantity of flags, symbols and banners.
5) Create a Republican salute. Also a Republican chant and hymn would be useful.
6) Create hated scapegoats to blame all their problems on: Stir up hate for the “Liberals”, “Un-Americans”, “Anti-Americans”, “Non-Patriots”, “Non-Christians” and all other such vermin.
7) Speak continuously about how Americans are the greatest people on Earth and that their destiny is to lead the rest of the planet.
8) Attack any ideas and hold book-burnings of works which are deemed “Un-American”.
9) Push the idea of building further Guantamo-type prisons to hold all “Enemy-Thinkers”, “Enemy-Sympathisers”, and “Enemy-Palinisers”.
Once the election is won, further steps can be taken to ensure a 1000-year GOP reign.
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#108..
I liked the part where you called me a fool. Its kind of funny that, Dems and Obama's Fans on this board have to resort to name calling.
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Following my previous post
Ice -- what do Black American Women do - vote for Obama-Palin and hope for the best.
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If the polls are right and McCain goes down to a heavy defeat, the biggest loser will be the moderate conservatism he represents. McCain has been vilified by people like Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter, if Obama is elected they will be crowing "I told you so!" and the GOP will lurch sharply to the right and become dominated by the evangelicals. In doing so they will put themselves out of power for anything up to 20 years until they can find their own version of Obama or Bill Clinton who can present a more inclusive form of conservatism. It would have been better in the long run for the GOP if it had been Romney or Huckabee who was about to be steamrollered by Obama as it would prove that you have to win from the centre, but now it seems that they're going to learn the hard way.
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#103 Ice
Why should journalists not represent either side? What is wrong with journalists writing from their favoured side. Surely it is up to us as Joe Public to read both sides, or not as we so choose.
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BraunSA,
I can see you're good at math! the extra is 3% of the income ABOVE 250k - back to school!Complain about this comment
BraunSA,
The whole point of being taxed at a higher rate when you earn in excess of $250,000 is that premise that, because you earn more, you have more in the way of disposable income that can be taxed. The less you earn, the less you have in the way of disposable income, therefore you are taxed less.
Why is this this rudimentary concept so hard for you to understand?
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Great piece in the Times, well observed and one that reminds some of us why athere is a tickle of pride in being an American. Still, let me remind you that while many millions went there, Justin, quite a few left again.
Yet I agree with you. My sister moved away from the USA to get away from the conservative, narrow-minded folk in Florida where she lived, especially from their boundless hypocrisy. She said, if Obama wins, she is going back...
I'll remain in Europe, where I have been since the Reagan administration, because I felt the country had really hit a bad spell with a whole new range of bigaboos, from Commies to Muslims (yes, already then!!).
ll remain because if Obama is elected, he will either be hampered from doing anything by the vindictive administration, or he will really lead the country well and once again revive the crucial allliance with European nations. So we in the world will all benefit. Either way...
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IceT.
Name calling is generally unneccessary. I have made this point before.
However "competent and accomplished wise Old white man" and "a stellar character" to describe John McCain could be seen by some to be foolish.
Personally i'm just disappointed that a reasoned and comprehensiely explained endorsement can be put aside due to a racial motivation. did you see the video, it took him 7 minutes to actually say he would vote for Obama.
True if he endorsed McCain it wouldn't really be news as endorsing other republicans is like breathing for republicans. To go against the party like this so publicly is obviously news worthy.
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Obama recieved 95% of the black vote vs a more experienced Democrat with almost identical policy objectives in the primaries. Remember Hillary ?
Democratic whites voted for Hillary about 55-45 %. Blacks voted for Obama about 95-5%. That's about a 16-fold difference in racial identity voting patterns WITHIN the Democratic party itself !
Case closed ... go confirm the data.
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I am a Democrat, and I plan to vote for Obama, but I would not dismiss Sarah Palin's political acumen and her contributions to the McCain ticket as readily as Justin did when he states that she is not clever and suggests she is the reason for McCain demise. Sarah Palin is actually a very intelligent, ambitious, and charismatic woman who has energized the GOP base in ways McCain could have never done; in fact, she is more popular in mainstream America than McCain is. In my opinion, she will be a force to reckon with in 2012, regardless of who wins in November.
Interestingly, it is precisely her limited political past, her superficial knowledge of important issues, and her candid and sometimes awkward statements that make her so appealing to those that reject Washington politicians, want religion to have a more prominent role in US political decisions, and prefer a candidate whose strengths and weaknesses reflect their own.
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116 - Gareth.
The GOP needs to die, and then the moderate conservative element can rise from the ashes as a new party, without the divisive Christian fundamentlists among them.
Then we would see how much support these bigots really have.
Lots of countries have more than 2 parties .... it means we can have more than 2 ideas!
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Blacks even supported race-hustler Jesse Jackson to the tune of 92% in the 1988 Democratic Primary !
"In 1984, Mr. Jackson received 77 percent of the black vote, which translated into a total of 2.3 million ballots. In 1988, Mr. Jackson won a larger share of a bigger black vote. He got 92 percent of all ballots cast by blacks this year."
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=940DEFD9173AF930A25755C0A96E948260
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No. 65
Quote:This election cannot arrive soon enough for me - the media coverage has degenerated to the point of being absurd.Unquote
Spot on, add it to the list ...
Clean Up Financial Sector
Clean Up Absurd media
No wonder the youth is confused !
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5. douglasroman wrote:
"Your comments regardin Palin reflect the sensabilities of a boarding school, Cambridge, ellitest, upperclass and knows it, snob."
Don't think so; they reflect the views of me (grammar school, redbrick uni) and a couple of friends (evangelical school for girls, the Sorbonne/grammar school and RAF). And others . . .
Oh, and the Jamaican BT engineer who came to fix my phone line this morning, but I didn't think of asking him if he went to a boarding school and Cambridge. We could all of us be snobs, though, I suppose.
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McCain is trying to portray Obama as a Tax and spend liberal. The charge that Democrats will raise taxes has been used by republicans to keep the middle class in it place. I am much more concerned with the republican plan which says we increase spending on defence and entitlements, shifting money from social programs and cut taxes for the wealthy. It's basically borrow and spend, which to my mind is far more dangerous than tax and spend liberalism. At least under tax and spend, we are paying our own way. As the current economic crisis shows, borrow and spend is a recipe for disaster once the economy reaches the bust cycle.
On a lighter note. I have to disagree with you Mr. Webb about Sarah Palin not being funny. If you watched Saturday Night Live, the other night I think you would agree that she atleast has a sence of humor. I especially liked the interaction between Alex Baldwin, Lorne Micheals and Palin where Baldwin tells Micheals that he cant send "there Tina" out there with that woman only to find that Lorne Micheals is talking to the real Sara Palin. I also liked her appearence on Weekend Update. That was funny.
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I am quite amazed at this article. It seems the BBC now are not even interested in veiling their extreme political bias and favoritism. The first two comments by this reporter are direct subjective personal attacks, what happened to some decent, unbiased and considerate journalism BBC?
Palin is intelligent and has had more experience than Obama in a position of leadership, governer of the largest state. She is principled also. You know I think the concept many left wing people have is exactly that she takes a stance against things like abortion, and isn't ashamed of her faith.
Who on earth does this journalist think he is? "my opinion is fact"? the height of arrogance - the BBC sinks to new lows, again.
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71. At 09:20am on 20 Oct 2008, eightypercent wrote:
'At least the oft-mentioned Margaret Thatcher had the sense never to dwell on the fact that she was a woman '
But she used it very effectively to deflect criticism with her famous ' This Lady is not for turning ' speech at a Tory Conference.
86. At 10:30am on 20 Oct 2008, bluedefence wrote:
'if the vulnerable go to the wall then tough'
This phrase ' going to the wall' originated in mediaeval churches . There were no pews and the congregation stood throughout . However around the walls were placed form of seats and here the weak and lame were allowed to sit . So 'going to the wall' was originally a sign of compassion for the weaker amongst us.
How meanings have changed
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It seemed obvious from the start that Mrs Palin was a double jeopardy choice. Firstly a snub to Hilary Clinton - saying "The Republicans picked a woman & the Democrats didn't pick you" and secondly, if the Republicans lose the election they have someone to blame.
It's also a shame that so many of the posts above have descended to personal attacks. Worse than the politicians!
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116. garethm2 wrote:
". . .the GOP will lurch sharply to the right and become dominated by the evangelicals. In doing so they will put themselves out of power for anything up to 20 years until they can find their own version of Obama or Bill Clinton who can present a more inclusive form of conservatism."
What's wrong with that? It seems like a pretty good plan to me. Especially the 20 year part. Just as long as they don't emulate the Tories over here, who gave that idea up in a lot less than 20 years. Very annoying. Still, the Tories here would now be far too 'liberal/socialist' for most Republicans I should think, so there is hope . . .
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Watching Palin making that corny appearance on the Late Night show only goes to prove that she's run out of ideas on winning the election and now all she's doing is just "passing" her time by attending these idle banter shows... If only McCain had not thought of some more original ideas (of doing promotion through her)! I pity McCain as he seems to be just repeating what he said 4-5 months back... Republicans seem to have lost the steam...
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McCain is finished. Even with the late swing that will happen in his favour as some voters' nerves break at the ballot box at the prospect of voting for a man named Hussein, the margin is now too wide.
With a huge mandate that I believe he will get, one of the major tasks Obama will have to accomplish in his presidency is to smash the inequity of the US voting system. The Southern and rural states have far too much influence in terms of electoral college votes than their size, populations and economic contributions dictate. Obama must utterly disassemble the ridiculous election framework borne out from appeasement to the South at the time of the Civil War.
America is now gripped in a new civil war and it is imperative the irrational and close minded views of the far right and evangelical christians do not dictate that nation's future. Given the majority of this demographic believe the "end days" will be realised in their lifetimes, doing this is of equally great benefit to the rest of the world.
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Again, this column is being treated a sports-type entertainment.
More interesting (and more work for BBC personnel) would be a discussion of who the advisors for Obama are and who the potential cabinet ministers and their respective policies would be.
Again, this is work- overpaid pundits find it easier to quote second-hand comments concerning personality.
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#121..
I am glad you hate name calling.however, the funny thing is that you stylishly called me foolish in your post.
I am an african, so i should ideally root for Obama. I wont and i will keep encouraging a lot of people on this board not to, no MATTER HOW MANY TAUNTS, ABUSES OR JEERS I GET FOR DOING SO.
I stand by my assertion that Colin Powell's endorsement was racially motivated. That word 'transformational' he used to decsribe Obama is a clue as to where he is coming from.
I wish the media had prodded him on to go into detail what he meant by that word.
is he describing Obama's lack of experience, or his deitification by the media , Super star appeal or what?
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IceT
I'm sorry, but aren't black people a minority still in america?
According to your figures obama got 45% of white votes to 55% for Hillary and still it took 95% of the black vote to win what was in no way a landslide, in fact it dragged so so long people thought it would seriously damage the party.
Now i'm generalising but i believe that there are significantly less black republicans for one reason or another so the value of the black vote will be diluted even more. So even if every black person in America voted for him (extremely unlikely obviously due to age, apathy, criminal records, other factors (which can also be applied to whites, before anyone gets their knickers in a twist)) is it a significant figure?
What is the percentage of baptists, mormons, WASPs etc that will vote republican? or is it only a significant figure when related to race?
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For most presidential elections around the world I don't really care about the outcome. But when we are talking about the USA who have such a significant role to play globally I would like to think that the American people would elect an intelligent person who has an understanding of global affairs. Unfortunately a large percentage of Americans don't even have a passport. God help us all!
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I'm not sure it's all her fault - if he was a strong candidate with a weak vp he'd be doing a lot better surely? I think it has more to do with the weird way he responded to the economic crisis and the negative campaigning (which may or may not be at least partly palin's fault.)
Powell's endorsement was not just because of Mccain's choice of Palin and her weaknesses, but also because of Obama's strength.
Although I would hate to see a Mccain win, I do think it's premature to write off his campaign and assign blame with 2 weeks to go.
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#81 Justaline
In reference to your post on a previous blog, of course I meant nothing personal in my rebuttal of your comments - apologies for the harsh tone. I just think your defence of Sarah Palin is illogical and far too generous for a woman standing to be Presidential back-up.
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#137 wrote
'i m sorry, but aren't black people a minority still in america?
I BET YOU DIDN'T READ MY INITIAL POST BEFORE DECIDING TO CALL ME A FOOL?
READ THIS AGAIN
'This is the main reason in my opinion, why Powells public endorsement of Obama will come back to bite him. If everyone were to go back to their roots in America, does anyone think Obama will ever become president?
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I didn't call you foolish. You gave an opinion on a man that is obviously floundering and called him a wise old man with a stellar character.
You like emphasis, here's some. NO POLITICIAN has a stellar character. I believe this opinion is foolish, calling you a fool however implies that all of your opinions are foolish, i don't believe this.
Ideally you should root for the person you think is best for the job, to say as an African you should root for Obama is insulting to your fellow africans who are choosing Obama for the same reason you choose McCain as they deep down believe that he is the best man for the job and no racially motivated insults will change their mind either. Black people voting for Obama on the colour of his skin is no better than white trash crackers not voting for him because he's black.
It's the 21st century. To hell with skin colour!
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I'd be careful before making predictions... it wouldn't be the first time the candidate behind in the polls ends up winning.
I think a lot of "ordinary Americans", the flag-waving couch potato shopping mall-loving kind, will not be able to bring themselves to vote a man of African heritage for president, despite wanting to.
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British ish, I have to agree with you about the Conservative Party in the United Kingdom being more liberal and socialist that the GOP here in the States. The last time this happened to the Republican Party was in this position was 1932 and they were unable to reclaim the White House for twenty years.
It would seem that they world is best off when the States are run by Democrats and the UK is run by the Torries. Especially in times of war. Churchill was a Torry and FDR was a democrat, they saved democracy.
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Nothing in this election is clear-cut, from the innuendos (which Colin Powell addressed in a specific manner, and I wish everyone would read his words), to McCain's cryptic "we've got them where we want them," suggesting he's planning yet another "gotcha" surprise. (Assuming he's not just counting on the smear-and-distortion robo-calls that Colin Powell denounced).
The thing that alarms me most is the undermining of the voting process itself. In 2000, the Supreme Court chose the president due to the "tie" in Florida -- a "tie" which involved thousands of discarded ballots. I recently learned that the 2004 election wasn't as clear-cut as we thought (Google "Ohio 2004 election")-- 200,000 uncounted votes in Ohio were enough to tip that election to Kerry. There were reports of polling places being moved at the last minute and other polling irregularities, particularly in black districts in Florida, one of the states which tends to be a tiebreaker.
The voting irregularities in the last two elections are a troubling prelude. Now, the GOP has latched onto ACORN, a charity organization that helps low-income Americans in several ways including voter registration. While the Obama campaign has no direct ties to ACORN, Mr. Obama (and McCain) has supported them in the past. ACORN has gotten in trouble because some of its (now fired) employees registered imaginary voters to earn their pay. The McCain camp has used this as an aggressive smear against Obama, even though ACORN is not party-affiliated and (more importantly) these imaginary voters can't and won't be voting.
On the other hand, if you Google "GOP voter purge" to learn how hundreds of thousands of voters are being "purged" from voter rolls, especially in swing states. Fore example, they're disqualifying people who have lost their homes to foreclosures, because their address has changed. The GOP is staging a nationwide push to have millions of American voters' names deleted from rolls so their votes won't count, although the Supreme Court just rejected one lawsuit demanding Ohio go through its entire voter list and "confirm" all voters with less than a month before the election.
All these signs suggest to me that the GOP (Karl Rove?) is doing what it can to disenfranchise voters, muddy the waters, and set up the perfect storm for another election crisis worse than the last two. If there's a landslide, I think the courts will decide in Obama's favor; there will simply be no way for McCain to claim that ALL of those voting for Obama are socialist terrorist fascist liberal media elite RINO Muslim unpatriotic non-citizen black imaginary voters. But God help us if the election is (apparently) close.
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Palin has not lost the contest for McCain. It was McCain who chose her, on the strength of one 15 minute meeting, and it is he who must accept responsibility for imploding his own campaign.
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For once, I disagree with Justin. Palin - despite her self-evident inability to assume the office she is running for - has, in purely electoral terms, been more of an asset than a liability. She has energised the GOP base in a way that the other options would not. She protects McCain's right flank, allowing him to chase undecideds. She attracts media attention, which McCain was otherwise failing to get. Her main negative is that she isn't ready to be President - but this is mitigated by the fact that she isn't running for President and, despite McCain's age, people will be voting for him, not her. Powell's endorsement of Obama will also have limited impact. McCain will lose because of the economy, because he's a Republican, and because he is, actually, a lousy candidate and campaigner.
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# 123 Domenick
I agree with you that Palin is going to remain a force to be reckoned with - but at the moment she combines in almost equal parts political skills with political naivety. She is going to have to learn to pay much more attention to detail. It remains to be seen whether this is in her nature.
She has been exposed during this campaign as telling a lot of unnecessary lies and her distaste for the media may be a reflection of the fact that she had not prepared herself for the scrutiny that politicians are under when they burst on to the national scene.
That in itself is an example of naivety and lack of understanding about what she was taking on, although the McCain campaign must take equal blame for not checking her out.
There is a world of difference between learning your political skills in the rough and tumble of Chicago and the wastes of Alaska.
One teaches you about compromise and discipline - the other seems to be based on an appeal to the electorate's baser instincts which does not translate comfortably to the national and international scene.
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#35
Yes.
Sam
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Justin:
Regarding the Powell endorsement, I think it is more important what he said about the tatics of the McCain campaign tatics.
And by inference that the Obama campaign was not doing a similar tatic.
Although I disagree with him on that, it may carry more weight since susan Collins said it a day earlier.
I have a problem with stating an oppinion as a fact. For the first month everyone was stating how Palin energized the campaign. And bider has made more verbal gaffes than she has. Joe Jobs is a four letter word not three.
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to continue my last point, a significant number of black people will also be in safe democratic states so the value diminishes again.
Obama will win this election on the power of the white people who vote for him, for the women and the young. The black vote will just be the icing on the cake!
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#39
Yes.
It isn't un-American, it's patriotic to want to help your country when it needs you, and your cash.
What is un-American is questioning other folks patriotism. It's slimy too.
Patriot Sam
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http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=4UvEuqYyDoE
Why is it that not every American has seen this video. IT IS VITAL and showcases how your media is the worst in the free western world
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http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=4UvEuqYyDoE
Why is it that not every American has seen this video. IT IS VITAL to know about this and the fact that so many of you Americans have not seen this showcases how your media is the worst in the free western world. Fancy Fox news being the most popular in your country..... sheep to the slaughterhouse
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Don't read; don't study hard, that's just too elitist. Just join the NRA, believe in Jesus
and offer a tax cut.
Palin is simply the dumber version George Bush; she makes him look like a genius.
I wonder if she will ever start talking to the "liberal" press without McCain at her side like a dog handler.
Her abject stupidity is not as much an issue as the people trying to "package" her for public consumption. Of course these are the same people who tell you they are the definition of patriotism. You can see why they don't want her to talk to the "liberal" Press. The man who once prided himself in "putting his country first" is now willing to take a chance on a complete idiot - just so he can invigorate the GOP base and improve his chances.
The selection of this woman should be seen as an insult to America's collective intelligence. It's sad to think that she actually appeals to some voters - I guess one should never overestimate the intelligence of some Americans. I wonder if she knows that Americans went to the moon almost 40 years ago.
Given the state of the country it's scary to think that Obama leads by just a few points. It certainly underscores the power of racism.
The people who gave us Bush-Cheney now telling us Mccain-Palin is the best we can do.
Bush has now made sure we will have little or no Social Security or Pension. Can't imagine the healthcare disaster down the road. Now we just have to sit back and watch our 401K disappear.
The sad irony is that we may have to ask Bin Laden's family - in the Middle East - to help with our US$11.3 Trillion National Debt and the Wall Street bailout.
She will make a very good President - maybe we can call her "President Pootin".
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Baloney, Mr. Webb: "It's the economy, stupid" (no disrespect, intended), petrol prices, the war, unpopular incumbent president, and the infatuation with an expierienced Senator from Illinois. Even with all that all that, Mr. Obama should be much farther ahead than supposedly is.
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# 130 ~ Jabber
Even the blessed Margaret couldn't very well have said "the gentleman is not for turning ..... "
That famous line was written for her (by, I believe, the playright Ronald Millar) and she used it on advice. Apart from that she led her party as a person, neither F nor M, doing little for women either through legislation or by the promotion of female colleagues.
But she did like to surround herself with handsome younger men - and why not ?
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135.Xie_Ming wrote:
More interesting (and more work for BBC personnel) would be a discussion of who the advisers for Obama are and who the potential cabinet ministers and their respective policies would be.
So let's start it.
Would you have any of the Clinton's? Or Gore in the cabinet (how about Clinton (Bill) or Gore for UN Ambassador?)
If Obama wants to be all inclusive why not ask McCain to join his cabinet, as Secretary of State?
What about treasury secretary which will be very important?
Could he have the audacity to pick some one not from the political/economic elite?
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This is very strange to me.
A person did badly in school and normally will become average joe if not for their rich parents that give them a career, money to spend when schooling IS CONSIDER AS BETTER RELATED TO AVERAGE JOE.
A person that work very hard in school and work very hard to do well IS CONSIDER AN ELITIST AND A SNOB.
I guess these people like the rich kid when schooling than the hardworking nerd in class. And the feeling continue to adulthood.
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"147. At 1:05pm on 20 Oct 2008, rulebookconsulting wrote:
For once, I disagree with Justin. Palin - despite her self-evident inability to assume the office she is running for - has, in purely electoral terms, been more of an asset than a liability. She has energised the GOP base in a way that the other options would not. She protects McCain's right flank, allowing him to chase undecideds."
The trouble with this otherwise acute analysis, is that Palin repels at least as much as she attracts.
SHe may energise the Republican base (though clearly not all of it) but the republican base is nowhere near big enough to deliver the election.
She is out of her depth and it clearly shows every day.
As for Powerll his comments are superbly timed. He adds to the growing sense of momentum Obama needed to sustain at this time.
Whatever he might be like as President, (and no one can be sure) the man is a masterful politician and campaigner.
Simply following his campaign is a lesson in how to win an election (given the circumstances).
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I wonder what government BraunSA has been living under for the last 8 years. He seems to be in favour of a government that hands taxpayers' dollars directly to Wall Street and China, rather than a government that will do something constructive with them.
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OBAMA 'OUR SAVIOUR' IS THE NEXT PRESIDENT OF AMERICA...WE ARE SAVED!!!
OBAMA ALSO SAVES THE WORLD FROM ITSELF!!!
PLSSSSSSSSSS!!!!
fact check..how many of you on this board had ever heard about Obama, or what he stands for, his record of achievements, beliefs and convictions prior to this election?
THIS WHOLE THING REMINDS ME OF DAVID KORESH. THE SAD THING IS THAT THE WHOLE WORLD IS NOW A STAGE FOR SUCH FAKE AND MISGUIDED ADULATION..
WE SHOULD HONESTLY ASK OURSELVES HOW THE WORLD HAS COME TO SUCH A SORRY PASS. A WORLD OF SPIN, HALF TRUTHS, MEDIA GANGSTERISM, FAKE AND UNDESERVING ADULATION. A WORLD THAT WOULD MAKE ADOLF HITLER GRIN FROM HIS GRAVE.
WHEN DID THE WORLD BECOME SUCH A GIANT SPIN ROOM
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@27
So you believe the founding fathers were right to seperate religion and state?
You would make Ahmadinejad and Khomeini proud with how you want fundamentalist religion to control the state of America.
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147 - "Palin - despite her self-evident inability to assume the office she is running for - has, in purely electoral terms, been more of an asset than a liability,"
It may well be the case that she has energised the GOP, but it is also the case that she has energised many, many people to vote against her - one of those being Mr Powell.
In fact Sarah Palin will only be properly judged after the votes have been cast.
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Tend to agree that McCain is doing as *good* as he is because of Palin, not in spite of her with the nutty fringe she can draw in. He really is too erratic to have won anyway.
What will happen now is that his soft conservatism will take the blame and the GOP will move right. If Obama is smart he will fight Democrat triumverate-ism extremism and try to do a Blair, moving his party into `McCain' territory... rendering the GOP into the same position as the British Conservatives who will never win an election unless New Labour actually chooses to lose one.
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"162. At 1:28pm on 20 Oct 2008, icetayoa wrote:
OBAMA 'OUR SAVIOUR' IS THE NEXT PRESIDENT OF AMERICA...WE ARE SAVED!!!
OBAMA ALSO SAVES THE WORLD FROM ITSELF!!!
PLSSSSSSSSSS!!!!
fact check..how many of you on this board had ever heard about Obama, or what he stands for, his record of achievements, beliefs and convictions prior to this election?
THIS WHOLE THING REMINDS ME OF DAVID KORESH. THE SAD THING IS THAT THE WHOLE WORLD IS NOW A STAGE FOR SUCH FAKE AND MISGUIDED ADULATION.."
If you wish to be taken seriously might I suggest you do not make such ludicrous comparisons which say far more about you, then Obama.
Presumably you accept that Sarah Palin is a female version of the Ayatollah Khomeini?
"A WORLD THAT WOULD MAKE ADOLF HITLER GRIN FROM HIS GRAVE."
Hardly since Adolf Hitler does not have a grave.
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The cause was long dead before Palin arrived and it may be a bit trite to blame her for the lost ticket. McCain truely was the Medias Republican choice to face thier heir to the Crown, he didn't really stand a chance. Read any article you want that has McCain in the title, and it will be all about Obama.
Obama and his media puppet master have run a far smarter campaign than the Republican puppeteers of yester-year. For the video gamers, Madden Football '09 has Obama advertisments on the Stadiums walls and the Lateist 'Need for Speed, Carbon' for X-Box 360 has the Obama billboard along the highways, he'll have a 30 minute 'info-merrcial' at the beginning of the worldseries and on every major netowrk, days before the vote.
Go to You-tube or wikipedia, see advertisments for Obama. Listen to rap or hip-hop, rock or country and there are song that refer to Obama. Here in Texas, his commercials are all day, radio and TV.
Barry's choice to not limit himself to 84 million dollars with the matching dollars deal that 'was' to be, paid off. Seems every man, woman and child in the US has donated money to this canidate.
When I was in high school we read George Orwells 1984 and learned to fear the comning "Big Brother",... I never thought he would also be a 'Brother'. :)
..no longer, just words, just speeches, its also,.. just video, just music, just games.
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I'm Irish.
I saw Obama being eleted to the senate, i had heard of him before that.
I expect others on this board, though it is english, to know more than i. we are not all ignorant, some of us even do research.
As for the Hitler comment, that is beneath contempt, a disgusting piece of rethoric that prompts me to take back my earlier statement.
YOU ARE A FOOL!
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Great blog post Justin. It saddens me that, frankly, racist demagogues like Pat Buchanan and Limbaugh are lambasting Powell's endorsement as ingratitude and predicated based on race alone. Truth be told it isn't and if anyone is the ingrate is the Republican party and its stunning betrayal of the American people, and tarnishing General Powell's name. This by no way clear Powell of his role in the debacle in Iraq. And it is stunning that a Presidential campaign would let a woman like Michele Buchmann on television spewing what could be classify as hate-speech if not outright treachery by invoking the best hit of Joseph McCarthy. Gee, Republicans must have opted to work for the votes of joes; dead, fake, and flaky alike. Joe McCarthy, Joe the Plumber, and Joe Lieberman. The polls maybe tightening but it is very well acknowledge that they used an outdated model to get the desired result that gives a tiny ray of hope to the peanut brains out there.
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I've always found it bizarre that to many people in the States, the word "socialist" or even "liberal" is used as an insult, yet it seems that many of them can seriously envisage situation where a person like Sarah Palin could potentially end up in the White House. Maybe this is a fundamental cultural difference between our two countries.
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Nobody likes paying taxes and governments should always aim to keep taxes to a minimum consistent with delivering the policies it was elected on. The Bush Whitehouse has clearly broken that basic principle. It handed out tax cuts to the wealthy based on Reaganite 'trickle down' theories, without noticing that most of that money trickled down to the People's Republic of China. Then when they became embroiled in an expensive war instead of raising taxes they went and borrowed that money back from the Chinese at a significant mark up in interest rates!
It seems impossible that whoever wins in November could carry on with this scheme even if they wanted to. Taxes will have to go up simply to restore economic sanity, and if you want money spent on infrastructure, education, and health they will be higher still.
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Joe #22
...and I have a lot of friends, colleagues, friends of friends who like Obama's policies and they will vote for him.
For example if you (Joe) make more than $250K vote McCain otherwise vote Obama because if you don't, you will be voting against yourself and your family.
You think Obama is a socialist? What you would you say of Bush. The current president is buying banks and financial institutions in the name of the American people and yet you are calling a candidate to the White House a socialist.
You can say all you want but you sound very republican.
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"learned to fear the comning "Big Brother",... I never thought he would also be a 'Brother'. :)"
Come on? A democratic socialist will bring in big brother before a fundamental republican government?
Have you forgotten the patriot act? Big brother is here.
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# 167 - extraordinary to hear from Doug that Obama ads are on constantly on Texan TV and radio.
He team surely don't think they're going to take Texas .......... do they ?
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General Powell said, "I was troubled a couple of weeks ago when in the middle of the crisis, the [McCain] campaign said, "We're going to go negative," and they announced it, "We're going to go negative and attack [Obama's] character through Bill Ayers." Now I guess the message this week is, "We're going to call him a socialist, Mr. Obama is now a socialist, because he dares to suggest that maybe we ought to look at the tax structure that we have."
Taxes are always a redistribution of money. Most of the taxes that are redistributed go back to those who paid them, in roads and airports and hospitals and schools. And taxes are necessary for the common good. And there is nothing wrong with examining what our tax structure is or who should be paying more, who should be paying less. And for us to say that that makes you a socialist, I think is an unfortunate characterization that isn't accurate.
I don't want my taxes raised. I don't want anybody else's taxes raised. But I also want to see our infrastructure fixed. I don't want to have a $12 trillion national debt, and I don't want to see an annual deficit that's over $500 billion heading toward a trillion. So, how do we deal with all of this?"
Well, you deal with it through refroming the tax structure. The deficit has gone off the scale in case nobody noticed. Taxes will rise no matter who gets elected. The question is will it hurt the battlers (the poor, the middle class) [McCain plan], or will it require the rich to contribute more [Obama's].
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163, mypetfish.
You are comparing two countries that are widely different culturally. Iran is over 90 per cent Shia Moslem (plus a sunni population, and a small number of Christians and Jews) and is fairly cohesive ethnically. We are diverse ethnically and religiously.
Were evangelicals to dominate America it would constitute oppression of non evangelicals. Not like Iran at all.
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Not only have we lost JohnAAA, but vivaelcid and andreaNY seem to be gone too. Not that I am grieving....
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#65 Kenza:
I think your disgust is misdirected, it should be directed to McCain himself. McCain has no original ideas, all he does is try to ridicule Obama's. Right now we're all debating Obama's tax plan....what is McCain's tax plan? It's not enough to say 'I won't raise your taxes'. McCain should give people his own ideas instead of the negative campaigning he's been doing.
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The American dream... you don't have to be bright to become President.. George W Bush... boy your Dad had influence.
Good luck to America if the Republicans for the same reasons as history has showed - win.
I'm not religous but I really pray for Obama.
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Palin has certainly created enthusiams among conservative dead-enders, i.e., those who ppopulate the pages of the National Review and those who hurl epithets and violent threats at her rallies.
That's why McCain picked her: To stir up the GOP base. However, the base is indeed stirred up and we've all noticed what a bunch of alienated, angry, off-putting and embarrassing people they are.
Palin is repelling more voters than she is attracting.
That said, putting Lieberman or Romney on the ticket would have been even more harmful. You'd have needed to pass around stimulants to keep the faithful awake and alert.
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#44
Des,
Can I call you Des? I think it is a different type of work.
Senior folks do not work as hard as everyday folks in a physical sense. They do work typically a longer day, blackberry's and lap tops mean our work is always with us. There is no such thing as a non work day, just 'less work' days.
Our work is also emotionally draining. It is extremely hard, for example, to look someone in the eye and tell them their job doesn't exist. Not as hard as it is for them, but nonetheless spend a day doing that people you care about and you are ready for the Zoloft.
There are also some prices of entry. You give up 4-6 years of income to study, running up pretty big debts. You have to have a very even temperament, learn to communicate, motivate, inspire and lead. In fact you have to be above average at almost everything, and excel at some things.
None of which is to say my life is hard, just different.
Executive Sam
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it's ok marbles, we have reached a whole new level of crazy with Marie Devine and IceT.
As an aside what happened to the calls of vague policies that was thrown at Obame a while ago?
Also experience? Who has experience of being a president, who understands the pressure bar ex presidents? No on the job training Mr McCain? Thats just arrogance.
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167. At 1:40pm on 20 Oct 2008, DougTexan wrote:
The cause was long dead before Palin arrived and it may be a bit trite to blame her for the lost ticket. McCain truely was the Medias Republican choice to face thier heir to the Crown, he didn't really stand a chance. Read any article you want that has McCain in the title, and it will be all about Obama."
You would go further in political analysis if you can accept that Barak Obama (whether you like him or not) is a capable campaigner and not simply an invention of the media.
Black people do have abilities.
"Obama and his media puppet master have run a far smarter campaign than the Republican puppeteers of yester-year. For the video gamers, Madden Football '09 has Obama advertisments on the Stadiums walls and the Lateist 'Need for Speed, Carbon' for X-Box 360 has the Obama billboard along the highways, he'll have a 30 minute 'info-merrcial' at the beginning of the worldseries and on every major netowrk, days before the vote."
Yes Obama is not a puppet, black people are capable of thinking for themselves, just like you. Even if you do not like their thoughts.
"Go to You-tube or wikipedia, see advertisments for Obama. Listen to rap or hip-hop, rock or country and there are song that refer to Obama. Here in Texas, his commercials are all day, radio and TV."
Its called campaigning - Obama wants to win the election - that's OK with you?
I mean he is allowed these days.
"Barry's choice to not limit himself to 84 million dollars with the matching dollars deal that 'was' to be, paid off. Seems every man, woman and child in the US has donated money to this canidate."
DOubtless he is as pleased as punch.
"When I was in high school we read George Orwells 1984 and learned to fear the comning "Big Brother",... I never thought he would also be a 'Brother'. :)"
You thought no black man was ever going to be capable of becoming president?
Oh dear! You do know women have achieved high office and one of the most successfull US presidents was disabled?
Look on it as a cultural awakening to whole new world where you will find people of ability in every ethnic group, sex and phyiscal ability.
Some of us have been here for over 30 years.
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#172
Joplass,
I beg to differ. If you earn over $250k and don't think it is a good idea to try to live a little more within our means, vote McCain. Many of my friends and colleagues are leaning strongly to the left this year, and they are in that pay grade.
Independent Sam
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I have never had much use for generals either serving or former but I certainly admire Gen Powell. His announcement of support for Obama and his reasons why show his abilities and the lack of it within the rest of the GOP. It was payback time for Bush, Cheney and the rest of the inner circle who left him hanging.
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50. At 06:59am on 20 Oct 2008, bluejay60 "Relatively low-paid firefighters, police, soldiers and teachers (none of whom would be taxed more under Obama!) amply prove that."
Not that I disagree with you, but to be fair, they won't be taxed more under McCain either,but will pay more for goods under Obama.
What impresses me in Obamas plan is his increased 'tax' on the wealthy and high earning business, those whom provide items and services (telephone, electric, appliances, delivery and freight, food ectra.), and represent the investments of those retired or soon too be retired.
Even more impressive is the thinking that 'we' the end user don't ultimately and actually pay that tax increase through higher prices and costs.
The fact is McCains plan cost the Government more (us) in the long run of ten years, 5 trillion McCain, 3.6 trillion Obama is that McCain actually gives more to the working/earning/paying people than Obama.
May I remind you that the 'tax cut' for the poor non-working, non tax paying public is just more welfare, buy the vote give away that became prevelant in the 60's, enlarging an ever growing dependant group of receipiants.
Giving money to the non-performing, not interested and the lazy, or to the drug dealing/using wasted lives will not create a single job, nor increase the tax base by a cent.
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i cannot believe that Obama is accepting the endorsement of Powell. we all remember Powell sitting at the United Nations lying thru his teeth about the so called weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Does the blood of a million innocent people count for nothing. Colin Powell is a war criminal and should be tried for war crimes along with Bush and Cheney
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181
i gotta agree sam, I get paid more than my team but i work longer hours and the buck stops with me. There is pressure, work isnot all manual.
However i don't earn twice never mind 400 times what they do, the local head of the company i work for, a $500 million local company, earns only 4 times what i earn roughly. the disconnect in america is much higher.
Saying that i also agree that i'm willing, with out much complaint to take a higher hit on tax the more i earn.
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My parents are virulently anti-obama but they are not pro-McCain either. My uncle's inveighs against him would make the craziest of the loons in the republican rallies blush with embarrassment. The stunning thing is that they reject McCain outright because of the last 8 years. So yes, Palin has energized the base but little else. My Parents and Uncle say that they have no good reason to vote this election and that might be a bigger problem for McCain than for Obama.
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174. At 1:52pm on 20 Oct 2008, eightypercent
Texas for Obama! Don't be surprised if you see a landslide of unprecidented proportions.
He may not take Texas, but he surely will have made a "HUGE" dent in the mainstream here. I think he just may 'carry' Texas.
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Matters medical
Worth the read.Salaam, etc.
ed
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I am not convinced by Justin's arguments at all - from what I've heard from my parents and friends stateside, Palin continues to draw huge crowds of women to her and by association, the republican ticket.
I for one have never heard anything "inspirational" come out of Obama's mouth, and he seems just another self-obsessed, power hungry man - the colour of his skin is OR should be totally irrelevant; I expect he will be no better or worse than past presidents if he makes it to the White House. Though if he does make it, don't expect any great changes, but DO expect to be paying more in taxes into the belly of hte Washington beast!
While I would agree that McCain is probably 4-8 years too late for this race, he is a decent man, who has served his country with honour for most of his adult life - and I think that he would have made an admirable president...but time and events are against him.
As for Powell's endorsement of Obama, I don't think it means as much as journalists would like to think - after all Powell is a man who who abandoned the military and Washington when his knowledge and expertise were most needed...he probably should have stayed retired, but maybe his actions have something to do with a future job on offer??
Obama will probably win, but I doubt he will be the man to change or dismantle the crorrupt and dirty Washington gravy train. I don't think ANY politician honestly expects (or desires) that to change.
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So what's the difference between people like MarieDevine and islamic extremists? I just watched the new movie "W" and was amazed to see 'Bush' invoke the name of God while killing people in Iraq. How did some people come to the conclusion that they have the monopoly on the knowledge of God's will?
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177. At 1:54pm on 20 Oct 2008, allmymarbles wrote:
"Not only have we lost JohnAAA, but vivaelcid and andreaNY seem to be gone too. Not that I am grieving...."
Not worry, once they are finished moving all thier funds off shore, consolidating hard currancy and gold, and saving 20% on retirment funds by taking a 10% early withdraw penalty ahead of the coming "Obama" presidency, they may say a word or two just to visit old aquaintainces. Its a buzy week prior.
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Some bloggers seem to regard it as unpatriotric for the rich to have to give just a little more of their wealth to the poor.
These are presumably the same people who think God is an American. When in actual fact Jesus was a socialist.
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To Justin Webb
Very excellent words from you. I had heard that Arizona could well be moving toward the 'pink' column but I still feel McCain will probably win this state but not by as much as he would hope. The local elections may be surprisingly in the democratic side.
The whole marriage issue is another piece of 'socialist' garbage that we are continually being subjected to by the Republicans who would choose to control and legislate our personal lives from conception to the grave.
Socialism is NOT about TAXATION! It seems to me that Socialism is more a concept that your belief system is better than mine so somehow you have a right to enforce yours.
Pay your taxes! This is part of living in a cooperative society.
I will not tell you how to live, worship or who you can choose to share your bed. Please have enough respect to not seek control of mine.
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#181
Perhaps worth noting that higher earners tend to live a lot longer than blue-collar workers.
http://www.newsweek.com/id/128568
for example.
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186
Giving money to the non-performing, not interested and the lazy, or to the drug dealing/using wasted lives will not create a single job, nor increase the tax base by a cent.
Show me one policy that gives money to drug dealers.
Lazy generalisation. Not really an arguement at all, are you saying McCain will remove all welfare? or maybe only give it to the "deserving".
No he'll cut Medicaid and take money away from those who really need it. I hope you are never sick or injured or if you are you have significant private health insurance so something like cancer doesn't bankrupt you and your family.
Obama's plan contains something that will cost nothing, empathy and understanding, why penalise the 95% who need it for the 5% that abuse it.
America used to take care of it's own now there is such a division, what would you do with those wasted lives Doug, leave them to die, to waste away. Human garbage? God forbid you ever have hard times or make mistakes.
I'm tired, and i'm going to bed, having to argue basic human rights and decency with some people can suck the life out of you.
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I used to like Saturday Night Live, but it hasn't been very funny lately. Palin shouldn't have sat there on SNL and put up with those idiots mocking her.
Was Amy Poeler with a big pregant belly supposed to be another joke on Palin?
I do not see any the humor in that.
The candidate I wanted dropped out early.
I like Condileeza Rice better than Palin, but she doesn't want the job.
While I like and respect Joseph Leiberman, he would never have run as a Republican and if he had the conservative base of the GOP would have deserted in droves had he been the VP pick.
I like Sarah Palin, but she has outlived the gimickry of picking a woman to run as VP.
I hope she has been misunderestimated.
I am disapointed in Powell's choice, but I'm not surprised considering how dubya did him dirty on Iraq.
I like to think of Colin Powell as a patriot who considered being the Secretary of State a service to his country, but he was never a Republican.
Powell was kind of like Eisenhower in the sense that he had been non-partisan his whole life, and then had to choose a party after his military career.
He always said he accepted his appointment to be Secretary of State because his Commander and Chief asked him too.
When everyone was expecting him to quit he said:
"I will serve as long as the President requires me to."
But now I am not so sure about Powell's wisdom or discernment of character.
This will be another close election with neither candidate getting an absolute majority of the vote, and the vote in the electoral college could get just as close.
You want to know why I don't want Obama?
Just for gits and shiggles, lets imagine what will happen if Obama and cronies ran the government.
After our economy is completely wrecked by crazy socialist ideas, our military strength destroyed by peaceniks, and our intelligence services decimated, the United States will be weak while countries like Russia and China are strong.
And when the super-power status of our country is distant memory, a totalitarian police state grows out of Homeland Security, all our allies in the free world have been conquered by tyrants and despots.
Why don't we all just pretend that we live in a fantasy world with ponies and rainbows where nobody wears semtek vests and drives car bombs.
I will be hiding in the mountains with my family while all you chattering fools are herded into re-education camps.
I never considered Bush as a savior, and though I like McCain better than Bush, I considered both of them to be the lesser of two evils.
I hope the Electoral College will us again.
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For Justin Webb and the BBC:
The problems that have existed in America are due to the fact that both political parties are exchanging insults and excluding the Libertarians and Greens. Even the media has participated in maintaining this farce that has become the elections.
If a vote for an alternative candidate is a wasted vote, why do the Republicans and Democrats do everything in their power to exclude Libertarians and Greens. I am fed up with the childish and totalitarian attitude of BOTH ANTI-AMERICAN PARTIES CALLED THE REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS.
My vote is for Bob Barr and Wayne Allyn Root for a higher quality of living and for America.
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To#190Dougtexan
I just saw your post. I can not believe this could actually happen, even though they are now saying that even Arizona is 'pink.'
Go Texas! Go Arizona!
To better days, Dougtexan!
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183. At 2:02pm on 20 Oct 2008, Simon21 wrote:
Dude, may I call you Dude? I think his (Barry Obamas) campaign is brilliant, I have no problem with Obama, the country will survive and thrive, and for those who dislike him, he will also pass, just like those before him.
As to him being a "Brother", just a play on word. Take the stick out of your.. and smile. I expected Powell to be president long ago and actually looked forward to the day.
I also was pulling for Hillary.
Being for Obama doesn't mean I have to go blind, does it?
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103. The reasons for Powell's endorsement were itemized point-by-point. I have no reason to believe it was racially motivated. Have you been following politics lately? Obama doesn't NEED Powell's endorsement to win. He's already winning on his own. I could see it being racially motivated though if Obama was losing or behind in the polls, and Powell just came out with no clear analysis as to how he came to his decision, it being a last ditch effort to gain voters..However that is not the case.
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187. At 2:10pm on 20 Oct 2008, littlefiannafail
"hear, hear!" It's all about the change, the hope!!! Ha ha, thats a good one,
Reality is showing.
For all the half truths and deception, he is still better than McCain.
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"Socialist! Socialist! Socialist!" A substitute for the "N-word"?
Nice, churchgoing folk....Peace and grits
ed
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187
Absolutely right, Powell was as much to blame for the illegal attack on Iraq as the others.
It's no good him saying he was taken in by Bushs' lies because he and Condi Rice were both on TV before the invasion saying that Iraq was not a threat.
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=v0wbpKCdkkQ
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#53
Braun,
By lowering taxes on the middle class and providing decent services to them and their kids.
Simple really.
Selfish Sam
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That's the problem with the the GOP. Over the last thirty years they have tried to portray god as a conservative republican fundamentalist christian, virtually ignoring the socialism that Jesus Preached.
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#199
Reuben,
Amy Poehler is pregnant, it's kind of hard to hide.
I stopped reading your post after that. Too long, too boring.
Sleepy Sam
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195. At 2:22pm on 20 Oct 2008, brianwright1775 wrote
"When in actual fact Jesus was a socialist."
Definition by Merrium Webster.
Socialism: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods.
Very good, I was going to argue that 'Jesus was a Savior' not a socialist, but I can see your point coming from a non-believer who see the miracles as 'free food for everyone'.
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It begins
Caveat Voters!;-(
ed
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There's an old adage that battleplans go out of the window as soon as the real battle starts. Leaders/countries that survive and endure are the ones that are flexible, open-minded, untramelled by too much dogma. Choosing a president ( or prime minister) is not really about their policies, it is about a judgement as to wh will run an administration that has the intelligence and imagination to come up with plans B, C and however many more are needed when the unknowns come out of the woodwork.
Obama seems the better bet....but we are not going to know until the next crisis comes out of left field.
McCain is too old, too fragile. Those years in a Vietnemese prison must have taken some toll: what's the life expectancy of a normal 70 year old never mind one who has been through what he's been through? That's why Palin's intellect is an issue. If she is not clever enough, then the back office runs the show....and see where that has got the US and the world with G Bush Jnr in the front office.
As to guy whose post suggests Obama's policies are on a par with Chavez....I give up.
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As an interested bystander on the US election, I have read all the comments above and have come to the conclusion that the religious right of the US electorate would be at home with the fanatics of Al Qaeda and the Taliban. They seem to espouse the same views and rhetoric of both.
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Crazy One,
Quote of the day! Thanks!Peace and empathy
ed
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"202. At 2:29pm on 20 Oct 2008, DougTexan wrote:
183. At 2:02pm on 20 Oct 2008, Simon21 wrote:
Dude, may I call you Dude? I think his (Barry Obamas) campaign is brilliant, I have no problem with Obama, the country will survive and thrive, and for those who dislike him, he will also pass, just like those before him."
Very true
"As to him being a "Brother", just a play on word. Take the stick out of your.. and smile. I expected Powell to be president long ago and actually looked forward to the day."
Good to hear. But plays on words can be racial can they not? After all the wordplay would hardly work if Obama was white.
And the whole tone of the positing sxeemed to imply that Obama could not be responsible for his own success
"Being for Obama doesn't mean I have to go blind, does it?"
Colourblind, yes.
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#62
Bill,
It's easy if you are employed. Take your salary plus bonus and you have your gross pay. Then you can take a bunch of deductions for federal (and in some cases for state) including mortgage interest, charitable deductions and so on. Then you pay your state tax. What is left is your taxable income for Federal purposes. My understanding is that if that is over $250k you would pay 3% more on what you have over $250k.
If you own a small business it's a bit more complex. As an S type corporation, LLC or LLP you pay yourself at the end of the year. Basically you take the profit from the business (less all materials, labor, finance charges, services, depreciation and so on) and distribute it to the owner or owners. Your individual share of that profit is your income. Then you do all that other stuff around deductions to come up with the final number. I would expect it to be a fraction of the gross receipts of the business.
There is one way that you do lose, which is true today and under both candidates schemes, which is you pay twice the Social Security tax because you have both the employer and employee share (which in my opinion is totally unfair).
Accountant Sam
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205, Ed Iglehart wrote
Socialist......
Great article Ed, where do you find these? Sure souned and read like something out of Georgia at the turn of the 20th Century......
...Fox,.. hmmm I wonder.
...and theat point of Powel being a R.I.N.O.,... just where was the, American, in that comment.
What was the name of that restaurant...
EATS
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182, everyoneiscrazy.
That's OK. We can have a little fun.
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"199. At 2:25pm on 20 Oct 2008, Reuben34g wrote:
I used to like Saturday Night Live, but it hasn't been very funny lately. Palin shouldn't have sat there on SNL and put up with those idiots mocking her.
Was Amy Poeler with a big pregant belly supposed to be another joke on Palin?
I do not see any the humor in that.
The candidate I wanted dropped out early.
I like Condileeza Rice better than Palin, but she doesn't want the job.
While I like and respect Joseph Leiberman, he would never have run as a Republican and if he had the conservative base of the GOP would have deserted in droves had he been the VP pick.
I like Sarah Palin, but she has outlived the gimickry of picking a woman to run as VP.
I hope she has been misunderestimated.
I am disapointed in Powell's choice, but I'm not surprised considering how dubya did him dirty on Iraq.
I like to think of Colin Powell as a patriot who considered being the Secretary of State a service to his country, but he was never a Republican.
Powell was kind of like Eisenhower in the sense that he had been non-partisan his whole life, and then had to choose a party after his military career.
He always said he accepted his appointment to be Secretary of State because his Commander and Chief asked him too.
When everyone was expecting him to quit he said:
"I will serve as long as the President requires me to."
But now I am not so sure about Powell's wisdom or discernment of character.
This will be another close election with neither candidate getting an absolute majority of the vote, and the vote in the electoral college could get just as close.
You want to know why I don't want Obama?
Just for gits and shiggles, lets imagine what will happen if Obama and cronies ran the government.
After our economy is completely wrecked by crazy socialist ideas, our military strength destroyed by peaceniks, and our intelligence services decimated, the United States will be weak while countries like Russia and China are strong.
And when the super-power status of our country is distant memory, a totalitarian police state grows out of Homeland Security, all our allies in the free world have been conquered by tyrants and despots.
Why don't we all just pretend that we live in a fantasy world with ponies and rainbows where nobody wears semtek vests and drives car bombs.
I will be hiding in the mountains with my family while all you chattering fools are herded into re-education camps.
I never considered Bush as a savior, and though I like McCain better than Bush, I considered both of them to be the lesser of two evils.
I hope the Electoral College will us again."
Hmm so to boil down your complex and incisive analysis u you want the next president to attack Russia and CHina as this will give you the chance for a mountain holiday with your family.
Wonder how long they will be content to live on a diet of racoons and skunks while wating for the nuclear dust to clear.
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Obama is the lesser of the two evils, that's all it boils down to.
McCain seems like too much of a hot head and the US has had too much of that style of leadership.
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not funny, not clever, completely incompetent records in her AK and Wasilla administrations - it is unbelievable to me that people defend Palin's candidacy. However it was unbelievable to me that Bush/Cheney were elected for a second term.
Save us Obamawan, save us from the dark sides of Darth McCain and Palin Vader
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190, Doug.
I also read that McCain is down to single digits in Arizona. I don't remember where I read it. I looked at Real Clear Politics but the figure they have is old (from the time of Palin's accession). I have been wondering what would happen in Texas and Arizona. I have a sneaking feeling that there will be a reverse Bradley Effect.
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I am no expert in international politics.
But the more I follow this election campaign, the more shockingly it is brought home to me how entirely the U.S. Republican Party bases its popularity on appeal to the very worst characteristics in human nature.
Those who hate and fear other countries, the nakedly avaricious rich, the racists, the religious fundamentalists - even those whose idea of leisure is slaughtering the members of other species.
No vice seems too large or too small for them not to try to bring it on board.
After tens of thousand years of human evolution, is this really the best we can aspire to?
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"198. At 2:25pm on 20 Oct 2008, everyoneiscrazy wrote:
186
Giving money to the non-performing, not interested and the lazy, or to the drug dealing/using wasted lives will not create a single job, nor increase the tax base by a cent."
No but providing the means to live to people who have lost their jobs and housing might make them less inclined to stick a knife in your pompous and judgemental vitals.
And surely that is something to desire?
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#91
Amen to that.
Happy Sam
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As a long-time Republican supporter, I have been a huge fan of John McCain for many years but I am extremely disappointed that he has forsaken his pragmatic and moderate views in order to appeal to the religious, fanatical right of the Republican party. Unfortunately, he appears to have allowed the extreme idealogues of the Republican right to dictate his choice of Sarah Palin as VP and to dictate the tone and rhetoric of his campaign. I am sure that Middle America is much more moderate in their views and this will be reflected in the vote on November 4, sad to say.
With regard to Colin Powell's well reasoned argument in support of Barack Obama, Sen. McCain has alluded to the support he has received from four former Secretaries of State and numerous generals and admirals. I would have liked to have seen each of these luminaries publicly endorsed him as Colin Powell has endorsed Barack Obama. So far I have not seen any of these people do so. Perhaps they are only lukewarm in their support for the ticket, given that Sarah Palin is on it.
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EVEN if Palin did not shut the doors of the Whitehouse for McCain, Americans would not want to be embarassed by the vile-tempered Joker with the protruding tongue and madcap antics as their President.
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Old Doc Rob,
Insightful and well said! Not to mention the unknown unknowns ;-)To the future!
ed
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Sarah Palin is also bad news for all women who participate in politics, whatever their beliefs. Whereas Hillary Clinton lost after a good campaign, during which she raised important issues, and if anything gained respect, Sarah Palin behaves and speaks as though she was picked simply to tick the box marked 'woman'. She is just not up to the job of nominee, let alone VP.
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The republicans need to redress their party after this election and find a new way, because neo-conservatorism decidely is not a good solution for the future.
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Interesting that so many voters will, apparently, have their minds made up by endorsements, either from newspapers or non-running politicians.
Whatever happened to the quaint notion of hearing the facts from unbiased sources, thinking about them and perhaps discussing them with friends and family, and then making up one's own mind? Radical, huh?
On a personal level, for those wondering whether Obama will make a crap president or not, it might be interesting to ask yourself whether or not the USA and the rest of the world are better places today than when dear old George arrived 8 years ago. McCain can say he's not Bush until he's blue in the face, and anyone who isn't deaf and blind knows it's true, but has the party he's leading changed for the better or worse in that time? Has it changed at all? If not, it will be four more years, plain and simple. Maybe that's a good thing. Or maybe it isn't.
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202, Doug.
You said you had expected Powell to be president. Many of us saw Powell as the great black hope and Christie Whitman as the great female hope (excellent New Jersey governor). Too bad they both tarnished themselves by joining he Bush administration. Bush ruined two fine Republicans and he is left with people like Palin and McCain (and Joe the Plumber).
I can't agree with you about Hillary, however. I dreaded the thought of Bill setting himself up in the White House to peddle influence. They were both pretty soiled, no doubt why McCain wanted to run against her.
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This is for the spin masters, name callers, and Obama fans on this board, i have got bad news for your Deity ( Obama ).
since you guys like to quote the polls so much, i suggest you go look up the latest Zogby polls.
'OBAMA'S LEAD AMONG INDEPENDENT VOTERS DROPPED TO 8 POINTS ON SUNDAY FROM 16 POINTS A DAY EARLIER'
Powell's endorsement must really be doing wonders!!!
Keep it up Collin Powell
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44. At 06:47am on 20 Oct 2008, DesertChildAZ wrote:
Well said it could more reasonably be argued that the ones at the top work less(back to playing Golf and those Bored meetings.Tedious nail trimming and suit selection)
The other half are wondering why the boss cannot provide gloves for handling materials.
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I completely disagree with this. Everyone is has their eyes on Palin just waiting for her to mess up. The truth is that she's more qualified than Obama. The media just tears at the Republican party because of George Bush. Biden doesn't even know how many letters there are in "jobs" but did that make headlines? No. It would've if Palin made that mistake.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bq-eeWow_WU
What about the whole acorn controversy? Why isn't that such a big deal?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4BdpJMJu_0
It's as if just because Obama is a black man that people favor him. I've been told that I'm racist for favoring McCain. In all honesty, I would've voted for Clinton is she didn't drop out of the race. The media sees a woman and jumps on her every mistake. It's not right. People need to calm down, look beyond color and gender and look at the facts.
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http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122446734650049199.html
"SACRAMENTO -- The owner of a firm that the California Republican Party hired to register tens of thousands of voters this year was arrested in Ontario over the weekend on suspicion of voter registration fraud."
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-fraud20-2008oct20,0,3842357.story
Christian fundamentalists? What constitutes a patriot?
"A Democratic campaign official emailed that Bachmann's Democratic opponent has raised at least $23,000 online since the Hardball segment aired."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/17/gop-rep-channels-mccarthy_n_135735.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/17/palin-clarifies-what-part_n_135641.html
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224
Simon, i sincerely hope that wasn't aimed at me.
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63. At 08:20am on 20 Oct 2008, David_Cunard wrote:
#27. MarieDevine: "John McCain chose a strong lover of God to fight abortion and same gender unions. They both acknowledge prayer, a powerful weapon in all problems."
Back on Independence Day, you also wrote "God wants us to REPENT, and be saved, and so do the radical Islamists. Tell your favorite candidate you want a godly government. It would only take a clarifying statement in the US Constitution that we were formed a Republic to be run with godly principles, the word of God."
Religion seems to be the only guide for your vote. If prayer was so effective, and 'god' so merciful, why was it that, for example, the US was attacked on 9/11 or that Hurricane Katrina caused so much damage and death? Americans do not wish to have a theocracy, either run on Christian or Islamic principles.
-----------------------------
DC when the tories were obviously on the way out as Blair swept the nation I felt safe enough to know there would be not more tories(though I preferred J major with no majority(got them talking))I decided to vote for a similar party.
The natural law party.
they promised to 1 legalise it.
2 lower violence through meditation, levitation and prayer.LOL now that's where they sound like the GOP
Now, at least in the UK they were considered a joke.
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Sarah Palin was a disastrous choice from the beginning, however, McCain's health care plan is what sealed the coffin lid on him for me. This is beside the fact he is a petulant child, not a gentleman and hasn't given me much in the way of information. He is a war hero? Really? My father was on the beaches of Normandy but doesn't wear it like a badge of entitlement.
Today is the first day of mail in voting in Colorado, a battleground state. My ballot is complete and so please count one vote for Senator Obama.
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Justin. It is apparent from your posts, your version of America needs tweaking. I will suggest going out more.
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Ths one is for those that worry about Obama rising your taxes. This was made taking into account both candidates tax plans. Using this you can calculate how much you'll pay and how much you'll be better of.
Make your own judgement and enjoy the ride!
http://www.electiontaxes.com/
Peace!
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dont worry, polls cant determine how many votes will be supressed this november.
and that may decide the election.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20081020/ts_alt_afp/usvotefraud_081020141407
and its completely acceptable.
Not sure when anyone in the media will someday have the guts to truly bring the effects of this to light.
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#162
Stop shouting.
Librarian Sam
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95 ti donkey
nice thinking.
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I find the dismissive remarks made by many Republicans regarding Gen. Powell's endorsement of Barack Obama quite amusing. For years they have lauded Colin Powell as a symbol of integrity, patriotism and good judgment; now that he has endorsed a Democract for candidate his positive attributes and record are reduced to racial bias.
The truth is that endorsements from prominent Republicans such as Colin Powell and Susan Eisenhower highlight the obvious, Obama has the best domestic and foreign policy proposals and has demonstrated the character and judgment we need to lead our country at a very difficult time in our history.
While Republicans desperately try to focus our attention on what Obama allegedly did as a young man, I prefer to focus on what he is doing today, and what McCain has been doing recently - not as a young man - but as an elder statesman running on a mantra of experience. The contrast between these two candidates couldn't be more pronounced.
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MarineDevine, (27)
"I disagree with Colin Powell and Barack Obama on several points in General Powell?s endorsement. If Obama is qualified to be president, then Sarah Palin is also qualified to be PRESIDENT. John McCain chose a strong lover of God to fight abortion and same gender unions. They both acknowledge prayer, a powerful weapon in all problems."
I could not help but wonder if we have been following the same campaign. To equate someone saying they pray as being Godly is very laughable. To say Sarah Palin is a woman of God because she opposes abortion while condoning pre-marital sex as exemplified in her daughter's pregnancy outside wedlock seem to me to be double standards if we are to go by the scriptures. And the fact that she is a christian does not guarantee her the VP position. She needs to be qualified (which she's not). Just because we want Godly people to rule our nations does not mean they have to be dumb. She is not qualified. Simple. By the way, what makes a man that says his religion discussion is private (McCain) more Godly than the one that has declared several times that he is a christian (Obama). Stop playing religion.
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In the same way as the 'math' assured Obama's victory against Clinton, I see the 'math' shaping up in his favour.
If you presuppose that he will carry the "Kerry States" (and there's no reason to think otherwise) that's already a 252 in the electoral college.
Consider the above in conjunction with his leads in states that where previously unthinkable for a Democrat (he is actually in the lead in places like Florida and North Carolina) and is neck and neck in places like Ohia, Virginia, Nevada - the law of averages says he's going to win one of them, at the very least. I think about two, three new States as a conservative estimate. He'll win.
His massive economic advantage and more popular stances on issues only compounds this.
I know Obama is telling supporters to not be over-confident, but you can hardly blame them. If you look at it from a mathematical perspective, McCain needs a miracle to turn this around. Ultimately it comes down to swing states and independant voters, and McCain has become incapable of competing in this arena - because of Sarah Palin and the extreme conservatism she brings with her.
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Re #219, "I will be hiding in the mountains with my family while all you chattering fools are herded into re-education camps."
Is it safe up there? I mean, all the people who thought Y2k was going to be the end of the world ran for the hills, armed with a lot of weaponry, gold as currency, and enough food to last for years. They might still be up there. Be careful.
And by the way, some of the countries that practise this socialist evil that so terrifies you are doing just fine, although it has clearly escaped your notice. Not all of us go around shooting each other by the hundred day in and day out (you only have to look north from where you are to see that such a life IS possible).
Still, have fun up in the hills. I guess they're very pretty at this time of year.
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Ms Marbles,
I live in hope. Is this an indication of such?Peace, siblings ()
ed
(and Doug, at least one of us enjoyed your "brother" quip)
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#184
Sam,
I agree with you as I know a few people in and above the $250K bracket, they are all planning to vote Obama.
I was more trying to answer Joe at #22 since all republicans think that a tax cut to the middle class is socialistic.
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103. At 11:25am on 20 Oct 2008, icetayoa
I cant say i blame them. I am an African, and i am heavily despised back home in Nigeria for supporting a competent and accomplished wise Old white man ( Mcain ) over and above a smooth talking brother who i feel is way ahead of himself.
----------------------------------------------
Am I to be racist and assume that as you are African you are Black?
And you don't want to know what Kenyans say about Nigerians, so that would not be thrown into the mix as well?
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#195
Brian,
God is an American. Where else could a gay black female become a deity?
Religious Sam
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I think that most historians will record that the beginning of the end for John McCain's campaign came on the day that he impetuously and irresponsibly chose an unknown and completely unvetted small-town Republican idealogue as his running mate. That and his absurd "suspension" of his campaign to "deal with" the unfurling financial crisis in the U.S. sowed enough doubts about his judgment to sink his quest for the presidency in these troubled times.
http://doctorwascher.com
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#211, Ed.
I'm also very concerned about votes being stolen. This is a very serious issue, as it could very easily tilt the EV away from the legitimate winner.
Reading things like this fills me with a strong sense of dread.
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Another one from the WSJ (Not what I'd call a pro democratic newspaper).
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122152292213639569.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
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I've never understood the problem some people have with a little social consciousness in Government. People talk as though the country was going to become Communist or something. LOL.
People seem to try and paint social improvement programs as entities that steal your hard earned money and are wasteful. I just don't get it. What's wrong with wanting to help out others? What's wrong with trying to improve the society in which you live? I gladly give taxes in hopes that it will help contribute to overall social improvement. I've been to church plenty. I keep hearing from conservative folk and commentator's about their religious values being a factor in voting, but isn't helping out your fellow humans who are less fortunate a moral obligation? You'll donate money to your church for community help programs and such but don't want to give a buck or two from your pay cheque to help out others? When did we as a society become so selfish?
I don't like to give any more taxes then I have to. And I recognise that sometimes social programs can be a little wasteful if not properly managed with adequate oversight. But I feel it's the State's obligation to help improve the living standards of it's people and quality of the society in general. Nobody should be getting a free ride, but there are definitely those out there who, through different circumstances, require assistance.
And as for this talk about Obama/police state/Big Brother nonsense: come on. The police state was already introduced after 9/11 (finger printing people who are entering the US, Governement wire tapping of domestic phone calls, a system to gauge terror threats [the ol' fear o' metre], imprisoning people without due process, permitting touture as a means of interrogation). People contributed to this being established when they decided to allow fear rather than rational judgement to rule their opinions and permitted the governement to enact the 'Patriot Act'. The first victory in the 'War on Terroism' was won by the extremist, when they caused us to sacrifice our true moral values for the sake of our supposed 'personal safety'. Does anyone really feel more or less safe now than before 9/11? Personally, I don't feel any different. It's just caused me to feel less inclined to travel to the US because is such a pain in the butt to do now. But I'll always love Americans. Hopefully an Obama presidency can bring some rational policy proposals to the terrorism issue.
Some of you people worried about the Big Brother effect should have pulled your heads out of the sand about 8 years ago, not now.
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I think that most historians will record that the beginning of the end for John McCain's campaign came on the day that he impetuously and irresponsibly chose an unknown and completely unvetted small-town Republican idealogue as his running mate. That and his absurd "suspension" of his campaign to "deal with" the unfurling financial crisis in the U.S. sowed enough doubts about his judgment to sink his quest for the presidency in these troubled times.
doctorwascher
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15. At 12:12pm on 20 Oct 2008, RomeStu wrote:
Following my previous post
Ice -- what do Black American Women do - vote for Obama-Palin and hope for the best.
----------
lol
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BREAKING NEWS OBAMA CLONES - YOUR DEITY IS GOING DOWN
the RCP average even has Obama down by 4.8%, the lowest it's been in weeks.
From wikipedia:
On the other hand, a USA Today/Gallup poll indicated that Barack Obama enjoyed a 13 point lead over Hillary Clinton three weeks after they were tied in the pre-primary polls at New Hampshire.
Obama had a 13 point lead in the gallup poll over Hillary, and then lost. How did this happen? Obama Effect.
How are you 13 points ahead in the poll and then lose? Obama Effect.
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#233 Icetayao
"since you guys like to quote the polls so much, i suggest you go look up the latest Zogby polls."
or go check out the analysis on www.fivethirtyeight.com which puts Zogby in perspective. and you seriously think an 8 point shift in 24 hours isn't goign to turn out to be a SNAFU?
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I saw Powell's endorsement of Obama yesterday, and thought it was phenomenal. It was a big enough deal that he endorsed him, but it was his explanation and rationale that was incredible. He totally demolished the McCain candidacy in terms even Obama might have struggled to match for cool dissection. I think McCain had a good week last week, but this puts him on the back foot again. Also, Obama raised $150m in September alone. Incredible. Apparently he is going to do a 30 minute ad slot on the 'networks' a few days before the election. This is either going to be a big success or people will be put off by his the perception that his is getting a bit ahead of himself. Either way, I can't see him losing at this stage. I think McCain will have a good final run it but it will be too little too late.
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There's a pathos to be witnessed in outraged Americans frothing with their thinly disguised racism...
...be it comparisons to Koresh, references to being governed by a "brother" or the church-going folk of North Carolina shouting "Socialist! Socialist! Socialist!" at a man who is promising tax cuts.
It would all make for SNL material - funny, if the USA wasn't so dangerous.
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"And you might remember that Colin Powell himself once backed Dick Cheney's run for high office with the view that he would make a "superb" vice-president."
Doesn't say much for his judgment or his endorsement, after all, in addition to that pearl of wisdom, didn't he tell the world at the UN about the so-called WMD that enabled the Iraqi war.
I'm betting this is a bit more about giving the finger to the Republicans and the GW White house, than any ringing endorsement of Senator Obama.
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233, IceT.
I have news for you. The old man and his ignorant sidekick (an embarrassment to all modern women) is going to lose. Ultimately you will be grateful.
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95. At 2:22pm on 20 Oct 2008, brianwright1775 wrote:
Some bloggers seem to regard it as unpatriotric for the rich to have to give just a little more of their wealth to the poor.
These are presumably the same people who think God is an American. When in actual fact Jesus was a socialist.
----------------------------------------
very very well put
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199. Reuben34g wrote:
After our economy is completely wrecked by crazy socialist ideas, our military strength destroyed by peaceniks, and our intelligence services decimated, the United States will be weak while countries like Russia and China are strong.
I'm sorry where are you living? I will repeat again. Obama I repeat Obama is not a SOLICIST!
In fact here is the Wikipedia entry for Socialism:
Socialism refers to a broad set of economic theories of social organization advocating social or collective ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods, and the creation of an egalitarian society where labor is the main source of wealth. Modern socialism originated in the late nineteenth-century working class political movement. Karl Marx posited that socialism would be achieved via class struggle and a proletarian revolution which represents the transitional stage between capitalism and communism.
Socialists mainly share the belief that capitalism unfairly concentrates power and wealth among a small segment of society that controls capital, and creates an unequal society. All socialists advocate the creation of an egalitarian society.
Can you please tell me where in Obama's policies does he refer to the 'social or collective ownership and administration of the means of production?'
Also please tell me where he has advocated the dismantling of capitalism?
All he is advocating is a slight distribution of wealth, to help middle class families, which in the long run will stimulate growth. It simple Keynesist economics, which all governments resort to.
Wikipidia says:
He (Keynes) advocated interventionist government policy, by which the government would use fiscal and monetary measures to mitigate the adverse effects of economic recessions, depressions and booms. He is one of the fathers of modern theoretical macroeconomics.
Isn't that what the world, including your Republican government are doing?
And you certainly could call George W Bush a Socialist!
Obama is a Centrist, which, again according to Wikipedia is:
the political ideal of promoting moderate policies which land in the middle ground between different political extremes. Most commonly, this is visualized as part of the one-dimensional political spectrum of Left-Right politics, with centrism landing in the middle between left-wing politics and right-wing politics.
I think that describes Obama.
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I, too, noticed the twinkle in McCain's eye during the third debate, and interpreted it as smug self-satisfaction. On reading the comment from Bill, however, I got the sinking feeling that he may be right - after all, we somehow managed to "elect" GWB despite the popular vote and against all reason. It would be a terrible mistake, I think, to underestimate the Republican predilection for behind-the-scenes machination. I sincerely hope there are some sort of safeguards established to ensure that this election is free from tampering of any kind.
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202. At 2:29pm on 20 Oct 2008, DougTexan wrote:
183. At 2:02pm on 20 Oct 2008, Simon21 wrote:
Dude, may I call you Dude? I think his (Barry Obamas) campaign is brilliant, I have no problem with Obama, the country will survive and thrive, and for those who dislike him, he will also pass, just like those before him.
As to him being a "Brother", just a play on word. Take the stick out of your.. and smile. I expected Powell to be president long ago and actually looked forward to the day.
I also was pulling for Hillary.
Being for Obama doesn't mean I have to go blind, does it?
------------------------------
no (unless you like him too much and ,w ell we know what makes boys go blind;))
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Sarah Palin, the Moose murdering hockey mom who can't name a newspaper that she might read. All the winking and smiling and "Ya' ing" belongs to a beauty contest not on a campaign trail. Has McCain realised his mistake yet?
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Andrew_J2008 (#10) accuses Colin Powell of failing to "finish the job in Iraq the first time" (under President Bush the first). He ignores the fact that in the US we have civilian control of the armed forces. The Joint Chiefs do not set strategic policy; they carry out the policies of the President, who is the Commander-in-Chief.
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First time I heard that Palin was running with McCain I thought - that's it, wow, bye bye McCain.
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Justin
My main source of news is the BBC
I has always admired it as a compete, unbiased reporting of the worlds news something we do not get much from the U.S. newsrooms. I watched each Debate with your streaming commentary running in the background. Your bias toward Obama was breathtaking it still is. What has happened to the objectivity of the BBC? Your Front Page articles are negative for McCain and supportive of Obama. Today it is Closet Racism without any mention that according to Gallup Polls African-Americans are voting 91 / 3 for Obama
What do you call that effect? I will still use the BBC for my as my main source of news
But when it is reporting on the U.S...I will understand it is just as biased as MSNBC or FOX NEWS it is a sad loss for me.
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McCain made this mistake all by himself. Governor Palin has the title of Governor but actually works for the oil companies that finance Alaska. Nothing happens in that state without their approval and that includes giving permission for her to run for vice-president.
McCain was a loser from the beginning though and no running mate would have overcome the excitement generated by Obama's newness. America likes change just for the hell of it.
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Justin Webb over-emphasises Palin's importance; although she is clearly ignorant and bigoted almost beyond belief, McCain correctly calculated that this would appeal to many voters. The shift toward Obama occurred immediately after the financial crisis became obvious. All polls show that voters trust the Democrats more on economic issues, the Republicans more on "national security". The overt financial crisis made economic issues far more salient, and practically guaranteed an Obama victory - with clear Dem majorities in both houses. The only factors that could give McCain victory now are the Bradley effect - but it seems unlikely this will be large enough, a scandal of enormous proportions - very unlikely, as the Reps would surely have used it already - or cheating on a large scale. THat last seems only too plausible, given 2000 and 2004.
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103, iceT.
",,,supporting a competent and accomplished wise Old white man ( Mcain ) over and above a smooth talking brother who i feel is way ahead of himself."
When you say "way ahead of himself," do you mean "uppity"? That is what racists say about Obama. It is an old derogatory term used for blacks who tried to better themselves. Have you bought into the white lie? Do you feel a black man is not equal enough to be president?
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262. At 4:02pm on 20 Oct 2008, ronaine wrote:
There's a pathos to be witnessed in outraged Americans frothing with their thinly disguised racism...
...be it comparisons to Koresh, references to being governed by a "brother" or the church-going folk of North Carolina shouting "Socialist! Socialist! Socialist!" at a man who is promising tax cuts.
It would all make for SNL material - funny, if the USA wasn't so dangerous."
This is very true, its all too obvious.
One US black was asked what he thought of Obama as president and hge replied he would only be given a few months and probably would not have the chance to make much of an impression.
One has to think that a distinct possibility given the racial hatred his candidacy has stirred.
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parissia
Sarah Palin is a twit! If i remember correctly, lieberman became an independant whan things did'nt go his way in the democratic party.
Open mindedness is on the rise, and boy that scares the pants off you!
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allmymarbles,
Just checked the Texas RCP poll, McCain had a 19 point lead three weeks ago,and it is now 13.4 as of 10/15. It could happen, and his win may be a mandate.
I don't think the loss of points is all Palin as much as the republicans that wanted a true conservative for President. Many would rather see the democrats for the next eight years, rather than the canidate thier own party has put forth.
A Huckabee or Romney against Barack would have seen a more spirited and viable campaign, issues and policies as points of discussion rather than the low road of mud sling'n', name and race callin'.
Seriously I wonder if we would be in the economic puddle that is the result of these two canidadates. With either 'real' conservative running the republican money may have stayed stateside longer and helped forestall the fear the rich have of a Democrat President and Congress.
Speaking of Congress, My republican representative is Ralph Hall of 85 years, with 42 in office has to go, and his 'D' rival is a piece of um..... 'werk', soI'll be Liberatarian on that one.
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The Colin Powell endorsement does not help Obama's campaign significantly. It will not sway many voters who are not already in the Obama camp. However, Colin Powell's endorsement of John McCain would have been an enormous benefit for John McCain's campaign . Mr. Powell's comments about Ms. Palin are not new. Most voters probably recognize that she does not have the experience to qualify her for presidency. However, as to whether she would or would not be a competent leader is unanswerable unless she comes to fills that roll. History is peppered with individuals who had no formalized training or experience at leadership who nonetheless performed quite satisfactorily when pressed into that role. Similarly, accross the ages, there have been more individual with extensive experience and creditials that failed than succeeded to live up to the task of presidential leadership.
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To#216Samtyler1969
Very well expressed, as always. We have accepted that we had to pay the full social security tax from self employment. I do not understand why you would consider that unfair.
Also I will say this, our personal fortunes have been up and down over our many years but we have never paid out more in taxes than we could afford.
I am having a lot of trouble over the hysteria regarding the term socialism and the almost terror response to taxes. Of course, we will have to pay more. Our country is in big trouble and all of us will have to pitch in to set it right
Should we not be most concerned about the state of our economy, our foreign policy (or lack of one) the wars we are engaged in abroad and the cultural wars that have been incited here at home?
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You ask (I assume rhetorically): "McCain cannot win the popular vote, can he?" The answer is no, probably not -- though it's not inconceivable. I suspect that we'll see even more tightening in the national popular vote polls. But more important is the fact that there's almost no path left by which McCain can win the majority of Electoral College votes. It may be impolite to steer your readers away from the Beeb, but they will find fascinating the website www.FiveThirtyEight.com, which has the most sophisticated statistical analysis of the likely outcomes in the Electoral College vote. Nate Silver, the websites founder and resident guru, was featured in a recent article in The New York Times.
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223. The Hand Of Hidden Forces wrote:
I am no expert in international politics.
But the more I follow this election campaign, the more shockingly it is brought home to me how entirely the U.S. Republican Party bases its popularity on appeal to the very worst characteristics in human nature.
Not all the Republican's it's just a controlling minority and their media cohorts.
And that's the crux of the problem Spin and propaganda. They seem to always allay themselves on people's most base common instincts and fears. The Nazi's were very good at that, I heard once that Goebbels would be quite rich spinning in the late 20th & early 21st century!
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#259 Icetayao
"the RCP average even has Obama down by 4.8%, the lowest it's been in weeks."
Okay since not even RCP is that biased I assume you mean down TO 4.8%. Obvious question is what was the previous value? I ask because these polls generally have a 2-3% margin of error so movements less than this can be nothing more than statistcal noise, a bit like you really.
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Justin
wow now I see your just a real big optimist.
OK.
Sorry Mccain went off the rails?
No worries america can and may live up to the claim soon.
I hope.
I did not come here to bash them, just found it real easy once here.
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267, jc.
"I, too, noticed the twinkle in McCain's eye during the third debate, and interpreted it as smug self-satisfaction...It would be a terrible mistake, I think, to underestimate the Republican predilection for behind-the-scenes machination. I sincerely hope there are some sort of safeguards established to ensure that this election is free from tampering of any kind."
On the one hand we have overestimated McCain. Each time he pulled a sneaky new stunt it turned out to be disastrous - for him.
As to their manipulating the results, I think Obama has already put safeguards in place. He plans ahead, and he is always further ahead than I have given him credit for.
If the election is a landslide, minor manipulation could not turn the tide. If it is massive manipulation, stock up on food, stay inside, and lock your doors.
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# 213
You are quite right that fundamentalists have much in common throughout the World-
Only when the ruling elite is not fundamentalist can civiization flourish.
For anyone interested, Mac Lean' s 'Mind and Ideology' offers good background for this.
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Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that Obama wins handsomely. What then for the Republicans?
On the one hand, I'd love them to continue with their drift to the right, which would, with any luck, ensure they don't get re-elected for a very long time.
On the other, they might just start to see sanity, reject the absurdists on the extreme right of their party, and get back to sensible centrist politics.
What we may well be seeing in the US is a replay of Britain '97, when, after a spectactular meltdown, the Conservatives had to retreat into the corners for a while, lick their wounds, and reinvent themselves. The result has been astounding; the modern Conservatives, whilst still not my cup of tea, are a party I'd not be unhappy with as a government. I don't like their leader, but the mad xenophobes have been ejected, the homophobes banished, and the more extreme free-marketeers muzzled. They even seem to have shut up about Europe.
The above would of course be the sensible reaction to a sound electoral thrashing....but who said sense had anything to do with it?
Whatever happens post-election, it'll be fascinating.
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I, too, noticed the twinkle in McCain's eye during the third debate, and interpreted it as smug self-satisfaction. On reading the comment from Bill, however, I got the sinking feeling that he may be right - after all, we somehow managed to "elect" GWB despite the popular (and correct electoral)vote and against all reason. It would be a terrible mistake, I think, to underestimate the Republican predilection for behind-the-scenes machination. I sincerely hope there are some sort of safeguards established to ensure that this election is free from tampering of any kind. As for the tactic of whining about tax increases, it seems to me to be eminently fair to ask a bit more from those who can well afford it, especially when they have benefitted in the past eight years from tax breaks to the extreme detriment of our economy. As for myself, I would gladly bear any tax increase that would reduce the spectre of economic ruin for my children, grandchildren, and other succeeding generations, which presently undeniably rears it's ugly head! To do otherwise is simply unbelievably selfish and short-sighted! Our Founding Fathers are surely spinning in their graves at the bastardization of the principles they fought for and held so dear.
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i am disappointed in McCains campaign, im disappointed he was even nominated. to say he is out of touch is an understatement. he may truly care about the american people but he does not know how to take care of them.
as stated in post #255 even the conservative paper, wall street journal is now saying Obama's plans are better. Colin Powell said that McCain would just continue the republican agenda, which is more ideology than feasibility.
They have controlled the white house for 20 of the last 28 years and with their philosophy has yanked the rug from under the core of the society. ordinary middle class americans.
McCains plans , especially his health care plan will put more people on the streets without care, and RAISING taxes on their benefits, and this is his solution for a crisis?
it contradicts his very idea of not taxing in a bad economy.
he plans to give tax cuts only to the wealthy, so even joe the plumber will be a loser if McCain has his way.
McCain claims to be a maverick, but he is really not a maverick if he just copies the ideas his party has been carrying for the last 2 decades.
it will be a sad day if he wins.
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I have just returned from a two week visit to the US and was shocked at what I experienced there when exposed to their election process full time. McCain is so bad it's unbelievable. His only tactic is to spread ridiculous scare stories and launch into personal attacks against Obama. Incredibly many Americans appear to actually believe him and overlook the fact that even if McCain appears to be totally devoid of any actual ideas himself he should be given a chance because he's more of "a good American" than Obama. As for Palin, well her rallies are reminiscent of the Nazis where she whips up frenzied hatred of the enemy. Noticeably they do not let he speak to any serious journalist presumably for fear she will say the wrong thing. If this is democracy at work I doubt it has much of a future.
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271, Adrian.
I also thought Palin was a bad choice, but felt she could get away with it - until I saw the Couric interview. Then I knew she was dead moose.
It wasn't so much Palin's loony responses as it was the expressions on Couric's face. You could tell this was an entirely new experience for her and she had trouble taking it in. Did you notice how often Couric's eyes blinked?
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Sam as to earning and worrying.
I doubt you will disagree too much.
The level of stress from long term financial worry caused by being under paid is as great as any from the preassures of work.
While I have no love of the office it is way healthier than the work place.
Industrial poisons chemicals and by products KILL many many workers in the US every year.
My father was in SF for a few years recently as the CG from the Brit Consulate, He had lot of stress, but at no stage would I consider it near the stress and PHYSICAL abuse that many others get.
I have the stress of trying to sell produce and maintain supplies ( when coke(metallurgical forge fuel) comes from Ohio it is hard to get).
Finding markets.
Finding tools
A lot of tools are (that will not be made again) are on boats to go get melted into S crap.
Educate markets.
All in all the same worries but very direct connection to my life.
While working for bosses I worry about getting injured because of lack of safety laws.
being poisoned by too much welding without ventilation(no shop in town has ventilation)
My point being tough the money is more variable and unsure when working for my self it is the fact that American Business is SO behind in health and safety that makes me work for myself.
That and those tests before you work.
Not many executives have to pee in a jar to get work.
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You are right about Palin. To claim that one should put country first, McClain shows that he 1) has bad judgement. How can Palin serve in such an important capacity. She is not prepared and probably will never be.
2) just uses words for the emotional impact without meaning th em -- or he, too is just shallow-minded.
3) underminds the ability and wisdom of the citizens to assess his choice in Sarah.
What a disgrace, a shame and just down right indecent and selfish.
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That's just it. Obama doesn't need Ohio or Florida. And if things are going as they are today, he could win without Pennsylvania, too.
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Just to lighten the conversation and help lower your blood pressure levels, I came across this interesting data today whilst investigating for my project Left-handed, Right-handed ......
Quote:
In 1998, a study suggested that approximately 7 to 10 percent of the adult population was left-handed. Studies indicate that left-handedness is more common in males than females.
Though constituting less than 10% of the general population, 60% of U.S presidents in the last thirty years have been left-handed, including Ronald Reagan, George H.W. Bush and Bill Clinton. Presidential candidates Barack Obama and John McCain also happen to be left-handed.
Unquote .. Taken from wikipedia.
I'll get back to my studies now. Enjoy the rest of your day /or night depending where you live.
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#105 icetyaoa you are not nigerian lol.
ps. blacks strongly vote democrats, obama is a democrat. every election, over 90% of african americans vote democrat.
If obama were a republican and had strong african american support then you could say race is a big factor, but in this case its just natural that most african americans support the democratic candidate .
the republicans for now will always be remembered as the party who opposed civil rights and supporting segregration. and the democratic party is remembered as the party of JFK and linden johnson.
I need not say that republicans have nevr truly focused their campaign towards african americans either because that may isolate a few base supporters.
But im sure you already know this.
COlin Powell has given clear reasons why he supports obama and not mccain, you obviously knows nothing about the man if you believe that at the end of the day his decisions boils down to race. it says more about who you are than who you believe he is.
so tell us about nigeria, (dont look it up on wikipedia)
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278, Doug.
Can you imagine what it would have been like if Obama was running against Huckabee? I disagree with Huckabee on just about everything, but he is utterly charming and I can't help but like him. Certainly the campaign would have had a lighter tone with a few laughs thrown in.
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Oh how the republicans must be wishing Lee Attwater wasn't dead. The man who was responsible for getting both Bush's e4lected would have had the over-chip and the creationist lunatic in the White House without a problem.
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I could'nt believe Colin Powell acted the way he did in the lead up to Iraq war,and i think that will be with him for the rest of his life. It was wise of him to be unseen and unheard for the last four years, it shows maybe he has a conscience and a little integrity left. I felt the same about Tony Blair also. When his ratings w/ the people were no good he did the right thing. This is why I can be so ashamed of george bush. No matter how bad things became he still can look us in the eye! Sickening!
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276. At 4:21pm on 20 Oct 2008, Simon21
"One has to think that a distinct possibility given the racial hatred his candidacy has stirred."
I disagree, the 'racial hatred' had been nominalized years ago. Politicians, Businessmen, Athletes, Actors, Teachers, Reporters, Soldiers, Tradesman and anyone can think of are equal in America. Sure , there are those ......... but thier number dwindles daily. Party affiliation, personal relationships and Issues seem to highlight this election.
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rxk150 I dont think its Palin's experienc that really bother's anyone, i think its her general attitude. It appears that she knows nothing about national issues, but seems to be confident that she is right about the issues.
When she is questioned about issues more dominant in Alaska , she shows genuine knowledge but on national issues she is lost, even if you have little experience working in office you should have at least an idea on what needs to be done if you get the job.
If you look in this blog im sure you will find knowledgeable posters who probably knows more about the issues than she does and that is sad.
SHe is criticised (in alaska) as well to have a lack of interest in ideas (republican or democrat) , and doesnt seem to acknowledge her weaknesses(which is important for a leader).
i suspect based on the little I have read on her work in Alaska that at the end of her term as governor she will still be popular but wont have good results to back up her popularity.
She is the perfect populist candidate.
in short she just appears to be the feminine version of Bush.
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Sarah is being used by the Republican campaign committee and it has backfired because Sarah is not qualified. When she wakes up to the extent of her "use", the feathers will fly as the Republicans scurry to get her out of the Washington scene. Sadly, she was selected by a desperate ill advised campaign committee to save their candidate and it has proven to be a strategy disaster which is another example of McCain's poor judgment. . . the greatest judgment failure was McCain's support of Bush and his illegal immoral Iraq war. Now, the continued unrest in Iraq casts serious doubt over the success of the "surge", another McCain poor promotion of troops and funds. Yes, we, the American voters are eager to elect a brilliant young man who has definite programs for positive change for our country,
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In a way Sarah Palin reminds me of the former right-wing Australian politician of the 1990's, Pauline Hanson.
She was folksy, common and appealed to the average man. The problem is that being those things isn't the right thing for (in her case Prime Minister of Australia or in Palin's case ) Vice-President of the US.
The repulbican spin doctors, stragetists and think-tanks have made a catastropic error in nominating such an incompetant individual... George W Bush passed muster last time, but the US electorate is so broke and tired of war that this time such a hick and numpty won't get through.
Good on you Colin Powell! A man with a conscience that felt guilt for the stupid war in Iraq. I just wish you said it was wrong at the time ehich you knew it was... your body language!
Impeach Bush!
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I respect Colin Powell but was glad that after he gave his pitch about Obama, the interviewer, Tom Brokaw played a tape of Powell introducing Dick Cheney as the VP choice 8 years ago, noting that he would be the best VP we ever had. Brokaw asked him what he thought now and Powell just said he "believed it at the time." He also seemed duped by the war.
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#270 ..... Gary - you are absolutely right in response to comment #10.
The politicians call the shots and the military enact the decision.
And let's not forget the objective of the 1991 Gulf War was not the destruction of Iraq, or the removal of Sadaam, but simply the liberation of poor little Kuwait - a rather unpleasant theocratic dictatorship which our former ally Sadaam had just invaded.
There are some really short memories out there - Sadaam Hussein was the ally of the USA throughout the 1980s when Iraq was at war with post-revolution fundamentlist Iran.
The USA and Britain sold/gave him much of the weapons technology for that war.
In 1991 our pet dog bit us on the ####!
It's only ever been about oil, power and money.
As for Colin Powell, as I see it the man took a brave and ultimately foolish decision to take a position in the Bush administration. I saw him as a good man who thought he could be more use on the inside, but underestimated the extent to which he would misused.
Peace to all
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No. 288
Quote:I sincerely hope there are some sort of safeguards established to ensure that this election is free from tampering of any kind. Unquote
Agreed, we are all hoping. Remember 2004.
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#296 moderate observer
great response to IceT #272.
African-Americans have always voted democrat in great numbers, mainly because they feel that democrat policies would benefit their lives, so it is of course no surprise that they vote for Obama .... in roughly the same numbers.
IceT - you would have a point if 91% of Black Americans were voting for a black right wing candidate whose policies would penalise them......
... but they're not, so you don't have a point.
Please stop banging your race drum and get an issue.
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I believe the reason Colin Powel endorsed Obama is for the same reason he resigned from the Bush administration. Both McCain and Bush have proved that to gain the ends they want, they will stoop to misinformation (much nicer word than lying) and fear mongering. Yes, a number of people in the US are poorly educated and easily manipulated. They are afraid of Obama because he sounds like he may be a muslem. There are many many more good muslems than bad. Religion should not be a factor, but it is. To many here, it's My (Right) Way or the Highway to Hell. I'm sure some of them will be surprised to find themselves in Hell someday for their "Right Actions". They do not represent Christ, in my opinion. But then, I read what Christ said, not what people have built up around what they thought he said. His philosophy was perfection..if everyone followed "do unto others as you would have others do unto you" then we wouldn't be in this mess. But, The Right want to have it their way and that means that your value is placed on the amount of money you earn, not how hard you work. Your right to live depends on the money you earn, your right to fair and impartial day in court depends on the money you earn (children are sold here regularly to the highest bidder..ie who ever can afford the best lawyer) and if you haven't been able to take care of siblings and go to work and go to high school all the while living in the poorest nieghborhood, then you don't deserve health care. That's just the way it is here. God Help Us.
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Why would our southern neighbours wish to subscribe to the European econo-societal model of: stagnant economic growth; higher unemplyment; high taxation, welfare addiction and less productive individuals; higgher cost of borrowing/capital; lower business and household investment; lax immigration and gradual loss of identity, etc, etc?
As for Mr Obama, he'll be implementing a familira European/Illinois/Venezuela political model: create a sizeable dependant on welfare societal segment, and perpetuate yourself in office. Ask Chavez, or any social-dem party in EU.
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#292,
Jack,
Unfortunately I garee with you on all fronts.
Sad Sam
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296
lol
251 was my comment.
You suggest he's not Nigerian and I wonder if he is/she is even black.
I notice no answer to that question.
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#22,joe in Santa fe, what blacks ?!!!! let's get the facts right, people on this blog the black population of the State of New Mexico IS less than 1%, now that been said, JOE the black population in america is voting Obama, in huge numbers in excess of 95% to 98% that is FACT, yes we are voting on color, sorry to say that, but that life in america joe !!! and the hispanics their voting obama also. and it too is fact and JOE obama has a good lead over mccain with white women. so those three groups should put obama over the top. So JOE when obama becomes president you might want to stay in New Mexico, don't travel east of the missippi river, don't go to cali, because the east coast libs, with help from the libs in hollywood, we're just taking this election, so get over it, oh by the way New Mexico is a blue state !!!!!
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The choice of Plain defied belief at the time and it does even more now that we know her. I thought her performance in the debate with Biden hugely impressive. Not, let me stress, because she revealed herself to be fit for high office. Far from it. But she is clearly a good actress and had learned her lines well. How scary is that? Some saw Ronald Reagan as just an actor who could learn a script and there is a bit of truth in that. But Ronny had more to offer and he was no fool. I didn’t like his politics much but I didn’t think that he was just a figment of a spin doctor’s imagination. Palin is and she will no doubt secure the vote of the people like her. But then McCain had that vote anyway!
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305
great opinions on Powell trying to do good on the inside.
strangely enough the same can be said about Condi to some extent.
So could we ask ( fwwwiiizzz) if going Black we will never go back.(plop)
seems to me the darker people have more understanding and reason than those white folk.
Just an observation doug.,
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#310
That would be 'agree'
Dyslexic Sam
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Sam I thought so.
Good on ya, we need people running things that understand the other half.
Go OBAMA
PS I am not as convinced that Justin has been as bias to Obama as some and think it more that he really did want Mc Cain(god knows why).
Do you think we would be better off with Katty Kay as the editor?
keep it down
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No 309:
My daughter lived for a while in London and only returned to the US because she missed her family. In England she had health care. Here, because she works for a small business, she does not. She does not make enough to support her son and buy health care on the public market. I don't seem to notice that the folks in England are all that bad off. Same for Canada. I have many Canadian friends and they are puzzled about why such a wealthy nation as ours would not provide health care, but will provide huge salaries for CEOs who have helped to bring this nation to it's economic knees. If providing health care is socialist then bring it on. The poor also have a right to health care, and their lives are valuable. My daughter misses her life in England, and she was not a mooch. She worked hard. Only difference, her health problems were taken care of. Here, she doesn't "deserve" to be able to see a doctor because she does not work for an employer who can provide coverage, or afford it on her own. She works hard. I guess you will be the one standing at the hospital door, turning away the critically ill because they were too stupid (in your opinon) to make enough for health care?
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mor off topic than usual i would like to say that some here have missed a great response to me that has been obvious to all.
I am a Blacksmith. I use coal.
Not exactly earth friendly.
Though not exactly the worse either.
I have one question that will never be answered by the candidates, because it will not be asked or rather not shown on the media.
"What would you do Mr wanna be , to make america a safer place to work, and given both of your support for clean coal , what would you do to make the mines of america safe?"
After all that's going to be more mining and america is really bad at safety.
Oh and Osha does not exist anymore really.
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From the Politico, a little insight to 'some' of the right that see Powells endorsement as 'racist',...
"Secretary Powell says his endorsement is not about race," Limbaugh wrote in an e-mail. "OK, fine. I am now researching his past endorsements to see if I can find all the inexperienced, very liberal, white candidates he has endorsed. I'll let you know what I come up with.
For what that's worth (nuthin'), it is interesting that you nor I can find a liberal endorsed by Powell.
285. allmymarbles
"If the election is a landslide, minor manipulation could not turn the tide. If it is massive manipulation, stock up on food, stay inside, and lock your doors."
If I may be so bold, stocking up on food is good for either side in a mandate/landslide election, and with the steady increase in food cost, it is a savings of money as well as life. Remeber the survivors six 'S's.
Seeds, Shovels, Spinners, String, Shotgun and Shells folks, don't forget to keep seeds on hand, shovel for planting, spinners 'n' string for fishin', shotgun and shells for hunting. Don't lock your doors, think 'rock soup'..... oh, marbles, you and I maybe better located for my survival tips. I don't know what I'd do in a city... any ideas.
I'd like also to point out that Obama may have trouble with a full democrat congress, overspending and rubberstamp party aliances could hurt his policies and budget plans with abundant pork, just as the republicans did.
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309., peterib wrote:
Why would our southern neighbours wish to subscribe to the European econo-societal model of: stagnant economic growth; higher unemployment; high taxation, welfare addiction and less productive individuals; higher cost of borrowing/capital; lower business and household investment; lax immigration and gradual loss of identity, etc, etc?
Let's see four of the G8 countries are european, before the mess the U.S' lasefere economic policies put us in, the European union has had more growth than the US. It's got the greatest transport network outside of Japan. A hot bed of science and technology, particularly in the field of genetics, and the world is looking to Europe not the US at the present to get them out of the economic quagmire that the current US administration has put it in.
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I actually enjoyed Sarah Palin's performance on SNL. I'm quite a big fan of the show (although it's always hit and miss and being british I miss a lot of the references) and especially Tina Fey's portrayal. To see the two of them on the same show was hilarious and the scene with Alec Baldwin was sheer joy.
I think the insults hurled at her apparent ignorance and stupidity are holding a bit too much weight. Sure she doesn't know much about foreign affairs but neither did George Bush. Back off her a bit, is the risk of her becoming president really that terrible and it is after all not guaranteed (John McCain isn't certain to die in the next 4 years).
Having said all that, I still like Obama (he has so much obamarisma and obamacharm it actually frightens me - just look at the democratic primary poll tracker on this website when he went from being 55%-25% down to turn over a victory).
I just think people are dissing Palin more than she really deserves.
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"When the tumult and the shouting die, when the bands are gone and the lights are dimmed, there is the stark reality of responsibility in an hour of history haunted with those gaunt, grim specters of strife, dissension, and materialism at home, and ruthless, inscrutable, and hostile power abroad. The ordeal of the twentieth century – the bloodiest, most turbulent age of the Christian era – is far from over. Sacrifice, patience, understanding, and implacable purpose may be our lot for years to come. … Let’s talk sense to the American people! Let’s tell them the truth, that there are no gains without pains, that we are now on the eve of great decisions."
http://www.americanheritage.com/articles/magazine/ah/1964/5/1964_5_88.shtml
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adlai_Stevenson
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re number 309
Ah...the old 'loss of identity' argument. Amazing what starts coming out of the wood work given time. Now that is something most of us Europeans have some experience of as A Hitler, B Mussolini et al pushed that one very hard as the cause of all our woes back in the early 20th C. It cost a lot of lives to nail it.
As our 'socialistic' health services by and large treat people regardless of income or insurance and our education systems are managing not to indoctrinate most of our young with tales of creationism and intelligent design, this European for one is pretty happy with the life we enjoy.
Anti-immigration comments from Americans are always rather odd to understand....who do these people think was in the Americas before their ancestors arrived from wherever? Everyone everywhere, is an immigrant...except the inhabitants of E Africa ( which eatly takes us back to Barak!!)
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Jack,
Have you seen the hills of Eastern Kentucky from Google Earth? They get the coal by removing the mountain. It is possible to forge using gas, but it takes learning, and it's still fossil fuelled.
I, on the other hand start with glass made in Germany at considerable fossil cost and brought to me by a chain of diesel-powered lorries. I then use a torch to burn propane and oxygen, both compressed into steel cylinders and also transported to me on lorries, to re-heat and re-shape the glass.
Also, the glass with which I start is a precision product with tolerances in tenths of millimetres from which I produce imprecise, irregular "artistic" craftwork. In other words, I add value by degrading my raw materials. My vocation is an ecological disaster area. ;-)
But I don't have to breathe coke fumes....
And I have the cheek to consider myself an environmentalist!
;-(
hypocrite ed
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doug 319
funny he probably hasn't supported a liberal before he was taken to the shower room by all those neocons.
Limbah is a nut job eh?
he may not have supported a white liberal but he did support Cheney,who was white.
But the liberal tag is more important.
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No 318:
The only reason that working conditions here improved at all was because at some point in our past, some one cared. Enough cared and banded together and made their voices heard. Unions, at first helped. Now they are slaves to their own oligarchy..not the people they represent. If a corporation can make much more by putting safety at risk it's ok to do that here now, because of the legacy of the past eight years. Many "Right to Life" people seem to only think that about unborn babies, they seem to drop that thought once the baby is born. That might rasie their taxes. That might make them "socialist". After all, the "right to life" for anyone that's been born depends on their ability to pay. Miners don't make much. They can't be worth much..same for the burger flippers and house cleaners and tens of thousands of people who can't afford health care, can't afford to send a powerful lobby to DC, can't afford to be heard or counted.
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320. At 5:53pm on 20 Oct 2008, websitejunkie wrote:
309., peterib wrote:
Why would our southern neighbours wish to subscribe to the European econo-societal model of: stagnant economic growth; higher unemployment; high taxation, welfare addiction and less productive individuals; higher cost of borrowing/capital; lower business and household investment; lax immigration and gradual loss of identity, etc, etc?
"Let's see four of the G8 countries are european, before the mess the U.S' lasefere economic policies put us in, the European union has had more growth than the US. It's got the greatest transport network outside of Japan. A hot bed of science and technology, particularly in the field of genetics, and the world is looking to Europe not the US at the present to get them out of the economic quagmire that the current US administration has put it in."
websitejunke, please adhere to stats (GDP growth, %, business investment, % of GDP from innovation, etc), and not to "EU has had more growth, hotbed of science and technology...". Anecdotal evidence and meaningless generalisations do not count. Comparing a socialist model of public transportation (no choice) with the NorthAm one (individual freedom) is definitely not comparing apples to apples.
As for the last assertion, no, everyone's looking for positive signs from US: EU, China, Japan, India, etc. The crisis origins: Fannie and Freddie, HUD, the Community Development Act (the "affordable housing" source), the ninja loans/mortgages - all Dem inventions of the "social justice" utopian bread and butter of any leftist ideology. The derivatives market bombed simply because the underlying asstes (the subprime mortgage bundles) bellied up.
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BREAKING NEWS!!!!!!
POPE BENEDICT HAS JUST ENDORSED OBAMA...ITS ALL OVER FOR MCAIN!!
HA HA HA HA HA!!!
I trust all Obamazoids will see the funny side of this, and see how childish and ridiculous the sprint for endorsements are..The candidates are humans not a product like pepsi or coca cola.
By the way, endorsements only go to show how much of an unknown quantity Obama is, that voters are not sold on his message yet.
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#321 bobchemist wrote " Sure she doesn't know much about foreign affairs but neither did George Bush. "
HeHehe.... now see where Bush's foreign policy experience got us? lol.
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Alanskillicole,
Thanks for the Stevenson (and the American Heritage link!)
Peace and optimism
ed
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# 317
Our universal, prov/fed govn't run healthcare system is a black box that currently, because of the changing demographics, syphones out 40% of Ontario's budget; education, infrastructure, etc projecta are in peril. It's unsustainable in the long run, and experiences severe problems of its own (shortage of doctors/nurses, equipment, beds, loooong waiting lists, etc). Thanks to private ins many of us get treatment in US, India, Thailand, Singapore, etc. It's anything but a model to imitate. EU experiences similar problems, hence their balooning budget deficits (higher or no par with US in terms of deficit as % of GDP).
Recent Supreme Court decision has opened the door to private funding for medicare in Canada, but it's a political suicide for any party to kill the sacred cow - at the expence of further lagging behind in other areas requiring urgent govn't funding.
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If Colin Powell doesn't want to publicly endorse McCain/Palin that's fair enough. If he wants to endorse the Democrat candidate then he should at least have the decency to quit the Republican Party - can't run with the hair and hunt with the hounds.
As for the suggestion that this is his revenge for being given false information in order to make a case for the Iraq war, if this is the case then he should make his point with George Bush, not stick the boot into his "long time freind" John McCain.
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#321 Bob -- the reason people are "dissing" SArah Palin is simple.
She is utterly unqualified intellectually for any sort of high office .... including that of governor of Alaska. (If you think the "average Joe" should run any country you are nuts. Very few average people run anything - it's because they're average).
Her fundamentalist Christian views are totally incompatible with holding any office. She would have "creationism" taught in school science classes alongside Darwin's theory of evolution. - creationism is not a theory - it's a belief. Is she also going to teach the "creation stories" of other cultures as fact? No she is a fundamentlist bigot.
Her dragging of abortion into politics yet again ..... do we need to go back over this .... backstreet abortions etc ...... No one is pro-abortion, they are pro-choice. Even the Christians beleieve that God gave them free will - but she would legislate their ability to exercise it.
(and just to open a total can of worms - how many pro-lifers are also anti IVF fertility treatment, where they routinely make 5+ embryos for implanting, knowing that 4 will die. Don't see many loonies bombing IVF clinics!!!)
She was obviously placed on the ticket with little thought by a desperate candidate flagging in the polls to try to play the same old "god, gays and guns" card that they pulled in 2004, to get the religious low income voters to vote against their economic interests.
Any candidate who makes such a decision is not a suitable choice for president, where that quickfire, emotional response is the last thing needed.
In several ways I have much sympathy for Sarah Palin - she has a down's syndrome child, and another daughter who has followed the family line on morality to the extent of becoming pregnant out of wedlock at 17. Not easy for any parent ..... BUT if she thinks as VP she'll be able to take some "family time" whenever the little one is sick etc etc she is the wrong person for office.
If she didn't bang on about family values quite so much, I'd dislike her less. She cares only about her own career, and furthering the adgnda of her Christian fundamentalist backers - she is a hypocrit.
That is why people are dissing Sarah Palin - well she did stand up and shout "Look at me everyone". What did she expect?
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Gosh, i just love this blog.
I have been called a fool, a racist and now my nationality is on the spotlight, just because i happen not to be hypnotized by Obama's rethoric. i really do pity Joe the plumber.
I want to ask a legitimate question, and i want serious responses.
If Mcain were ( Bill Clinton ) and considering how much loved he was, do any of you think
that Obama's huge appeal amongst would be any different?
Believe me, more whites move across the divide than do Blacks. i cant say i know why, but we simply do.os
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I've heard people from the right say Powell is irrelevant and complain about his not winning Iraq. Huh?
If the Powell Doctrine had been used (exhaust all other options before going to war/if war is innevitable go in with overwhelming forces and have an exit strategy) instead of the Bush Doctrine (see perceived threat/kill everyone in sight, then get stuck there forever), then a lot of the mess we're in would have been avoided.
Powell is relevant, logical, and honest.
There are remaining dangers to the US election: Outside intervention on McCain's behalf (terrorist threat), increased fearmongering from the right (remember what they've done to others including McCain in past elections), or Obama supporters getting cocky and thinking it's in the bag.
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To be honest Justin, I think that the Obama campaign looked at the last 2 elections and devised a way to win without both Florida and Ohio. Obama looks on course to win the Kerry states (yes losing Pennsylvania would be a problem but McCain's numbers in that state aren't looking good at all with defecits or high single digits at least).
Add to this New Mexico and Iowa which were set up by strong primary campaigns and he is 6 electroal votes away.
Of the remaining swing states (not including Florida and Ohio, we'll assume he loses both) he is marginally ahead in Colorado, Nevada, Virginia and Missouri with it being too close to call in North Carolina. Even a win in Nevada only would put im on 269 which would be as good as a win considering the Dems control of the House.
I think even now that the Obama team don't expect to win either FL or OH. In the last week if they are both still toss ups then as McCain piles resourses into both, Obama can pick off Virginia or Colorado or Missouri.
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Can I ask why so many people are so afraid of Obama winning. Do they really believe all the garbage that McCain/Palin are throwing out there. The truth is McCain will say anything to win and he has Palin so confused she don't know wheather to wind her butt or scratch her watch. I have not made my choice for who I will vote for but I did serve in the military under Gen. Powell and he is a great American I would not believe that he made his choice under any reason than who he thought would be the best person for our country.
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the biggest mystery for me this election cycle is, what is the media going to cover after this election is done. is the 2012 campaign going to begin next january?
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Justin,
Don't forget two important things:
1) Fickle voters, centrists, people who "vote for themselves" - whatever you want to call them - have plenty of time to change their mind again (and again) before Nov.
2) Dubya didn't know much about anything, and he still got elected PRESIDENT, let alon VP.
We will see.
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"Sarah Palin is indeed a disaster for the presidential ambitions of John McCain. This is not opinion: it is fact"
Nope it is left wing media bias once again.
The same media bias that goes on and on about white people being racist and not voting for Obama based on his skin colour but completely ignores black people being racist and voting for Obama based on his skin colour
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Eisenhower - Farwell Address - January 17, 1961
The entire speech is worth listening. Here are some excerpts:
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#285
Marby,
Don't forget ammo. Plenty of ammo.
Gunner Sam
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327
Well I'm glad to live in a place where is a decent health and education system, not stratified depending on the ability to pay.
I'm glad I live in a cultural diverse continent that allows moderate immigration to those who need it. (As it has been stated earlier the US would exist with out immigration)
Who majority are tolerant in the varied religious belief's that are in it.
Who allows the freedom of choice in sexual partners with out condemning them to hell.
Which allows women a choice in pregnancy.
So if that's social democracy - I'll happily live with it.
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"christiancitizen's" (#332) implication that dissension on the Republican ranks is indecent illustrates precisely what is wrong with the Republican Party, and why they have been, despite their electoral successes in recent years, a minority party. They would rather hound the moderates out of the party than build a majority coalition.
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#334
Ice,
I'll try to answer if you make it coherent. What was the Question?
Helpful Sam
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peterlib: it would appear that the Canadian model needs to be looked toward as a system that could be improved on. I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water. If the budget deficits are ballooning then you should at least be thankful that they are not ballooning for the same reasons they are here in the US. I'd rather be in debt for providing care for others rather than killing them in an uncalled war, or because some power players got greedy and decided to take risks they could not afford. I'd rather have to wait for health care than to have no hope for obtaining same.
AND No: 327: I hear this again and again, and I really don't believe that funding providers had a gun to their head saying "loan to this deadbeat or else the government is going to close your doors". That's ridiculous. They did it because they wanted the profit from the interest that they could get and gambled on the housing market. They felt they could FORCLOSE after making all the interest money and make a profit on that real estate because it would have gained in value. They knew going in it was a risk and they accepted that. Same for developers, greed drove them to overextend. Same others who joined the feeding frenzy.
Now “Joe the Plummer” and I have to pay for their gambling habit. It's as simple as that...you point fingers because you want me to believe that my government is the sole cause of this, more specifically the "liberals". That Dog Won't Hunt Here. I know when I've been "had" and I know "who done it": and although it includes government officials who turned a blind eye (must have been blinded by influence from those same lenders eager to swoop in for the kill) it is the lenders and brokers and power players who caused this. Stop throwing that same old tired argument out: it's just another form of scare tactics and misinformation.
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#334 race really is everything to you isnt it?
are you trying to make a case that african americans (all of them) are racist?
to answer your 'question', obama's popularity was less than clinton's among african americans until he started campaigning aggressively.
some of his harshest criticisms came from african americans who had their doubts that he really represents their views. Or to put it in a non politicaly correct way 'they wondered if he was black enough'. to understand the views of african americans because of his unusual background. Currently americans seem to be asking the same questions of him because of the same reasons.
i tend to find african americans are usually the first to criticise african american candidates, so i believe he had ot earn his stripes.
He has won the heart of many americans transcending race, if he only had the black support he would not be the nominee, get over it.
there is more to the candidate than his color, if your eyes could see beyond color u would criticise his policies and ideas, (the actual facts behind them and not the 'spin' ) and not the ethnicity of his supporters.
basically you can speculate on hypotheticals like what if McCain was Bill Clinton (ridiculous just by the mere fact that they are complete opposites). ). I think yoiu can find better things to do than to speculate on the unknown. Or can you ?
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Post #334; icetayoa wrote: "Believe me, more whites move across the divide than do Blacks. i cant say i know why, but we simply do".
So now you're white? Yet previously you claimed to be African.
LOL
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341: thank you for posting that, it was worth reading. I only wish George Bush had read it. The damage the last eight years has done WILL take generations to overcome, I only hope we can. John McCain may not be George Bush..but he has quacked like a duck, and walked with the duck, and looks, through his actions, like a duck, so to me he's a Bush Duck. I do not believe that McCain has what it takes to turn this ship around..and most certainly not Sarah Palin. I won't be watching "W" because frankly, it's not funny. I don't laugh at Palin jokes because frankly, they aren't funny. This ain't no joke, folks! The stakes a real and it affects the world because for now at least, the US is a power in the balance...
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Gosh, i just love this blog.
I have been called a fool, a racist and now my nationality is on the spotlight, just because i happen not to be hypnotized by Obama's rethoric. i really do pity Joe the plumber.
I want to ask a legitimate question, and i want serious responses.
If Mcain were ( Bill Clinton ) and considering how much loved he was, do any of you think
that Obama's huge appeal amongst blacks would be any different?
Believe me, more whites move across the divide than do Blacks. i cant say i know why, but we simply do so
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Stu, here is an alternative to your comments in #333 on Palin.
She is utterly unqualified intellectually for any sort of high office .... including that of governor of Alaska.
The people of Alaska obviously disagreed, when firstly electing her and then in giving her a very high approval rating. If the job was so easy, why didn't the sitting governor get re-elected?
Her fundamentalist Christian views are totally incompatible with holding any office. She would have "creationism" taught in school science classes alongside Darwin's theory of evolution.
All very scary, except she has a track record here. You don't actually have to go on what you fear may happen, you can look at what has happened. She hasn't tried to have creationism taught in Alaskan schools. Furthermore, the furore about her trying to ban books when first mayor of Wasilla was a storm in a teacup. She didn't try to ban any books, even after the librarian who told her that she was not able to have input into what books were held was later replaced.
Her dragging of abortion into politics yet again .....
OK, I'm uncomfortable here, but she has not said, as far as I am aware, that it should be outlawed, I believe the position is that the states should each be able to decide.
She was obviously placed on the ticket with little thought by a desperate candidate flagging in the polls to try to play the same old "god, gays and guns" card that they pulled in 2004, to get the religious low income voters to vote against their economic interests.
I think that she was put on the ticket as many republicans actually see McCain as too far to the left, and she was needed to appeal to the conservative base. What has happened since is more a desparate last ditch attempt to save the election (and in my view wrong and clearly not working).
Remember that the existing congress has a lower approval rating than the existing president. Having someone from ouside of the senate, and one wth a high rating to boot, made a great deal of sense.
As for people voting against their economic interests, I think the highly charitable Sam and David might both say this is not necessarily a bad thing.
I'm not arguing that she is perfect, but I do think that she has been unfairly demonized by people scared that she might have swung things in McCain's favour.
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i have noticed a trend on this board to systematically deviate from the topic and attack the messenger..
my position remains that POWELL'S ENDORSEMENT OF OBAMA IS RACIALLY MOTIVATED.
SKIN ME, ABUSE ME, MALIGN ME, I STAND BY WHAT I SAY.
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#331 peterib
the US spends 40% more per capita on health care than other G8 nations. This is despite the fact that the system is mainly private(which in theory should drive costs downwads). the united states spend more on health care per capita than any other country in the world despite not getting better results than many.
the reason behind this is
-health care providers operate for profit, so instead of giving the adequate care to patients, they give the most profitable and often most expensive care available.
Even if it provides no better result.
Anyone with an insurance plan can testify at how providers try to clean your insurance of every penny available.
-Insurance companies make profit by denying care as much as possible they dont make money by paying out on claims, and insurance companies have to compensate for private helth care facilities milking their resources at every chance they get so they raise premiums and try to avoid risky clients as much as possible.
(I sourced this information from a report done by the congress about 1 year ago, if i can find it again I will post)
I understand your criticisms of Ontario's health care system, the cost issue is due to a top heavy bureaucratic system that they currently have which is not efficient.
but the biggest problems with Ontario is the times that patients have to wait for care and not enough doctors. (the downside to providing health care to everyone).
the system can be made leaner and can be improved i wouldnt suggest throwing it out.
The cost issue is significant as most G8 countries spend high amounts on health care, but its still not expensive as that of the US. (most countires see it as a worthy investment for the wellbeing of the population and not just a burden)
I wouldnt suggest that a single payer system should be adapted because to do that would be too radical in the current environment(it would kill an entire industry that hires millions) but that is not what obama has suggested in his plan, his plan is more of a two tier system where the government provides insurance to those who choose to have it, instead of mandating it on the entire population.
he is suggesting an expansion of the two tier system already in place.
I dont know how it addresses the price gouging done by health care providers and reducing overall costs, but its a start and better than what is currently available and what is currently proposed by mccain ($5000 and new taxes on benefits which would only drive costs upwards).
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351. , seanspa wrote:
Stu, here is an alternative to your comments in #333 on Palin.
This is good a thoughtful argument with out ranting a raving.
However I will not answer it, as I am not ofay with intricate details of Alaskan political history, so I will leave to my respective American cousins who can give this line the respectable counter-argument it deserves.
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341 - Plonktrolls -
thank you for posting that; there is still plenty to like about Ike and much is timely today.
Ike was no neo-con like the current Republican core. His fiscal restraint combined with "dynamic conservatism" new deal expansion put him of a mind with many of the anti-deficit southern Democrats that Obama has been reaching out to. And his daughter Susan endorsed Obama some months ago.
No other President save Grant and Washington, perhaps Jackson too, approached Ike's level of military experience - or that of Colin Powell.
334 and 350 - icetoyoa - you've said you are black, african, independent, etc. and you sure are persistent in your anti-Obama opinions
Why not take a look at your post in "Tightening Polls" around #58 and the adjacent identical post by "secretnook" and tell us who else you are.
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352. icetayoa wrote:
my position remains that POWELL'S ENDORSEMENT OF OBAMA IS RACIALLY MOTIVATED.
Look perhaps I'm being a stupid pom, but I still don't get your argument.
He gave a detailed break down of why he wasn't supporting McCain/Palin. - If McCain was of African American persuasion, and still espoused the same polices - Powell still wouldn't of backed him, of because of those aforementioned policies.
A Confused Junkie
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As a teacher of English as a foreign language, I have a great deal of experience identifying the various characteristics used by non-native speakers.
Icetayoa is a native English speaker, but is not especially educated.
A well-educated Nigerian would use completely different constructs.
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352 icet... point taken, colin powell is a 'racist' for endorsing obama because there is no other way a former sec. of state can endorse obama. lol
kool aid must be nice.
#348 sankari please understand, he/she is a white african like Pieter Botha and Fw. De-Clerk.
everything is black or white.
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Sarah turned me away as well. I'm independent, but have never voted for a Democrat President. I have voted for a third-party candidate.
I've finally decided to Barak this time and see what happens. Hopefully, it will be a nice change.
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To#341Plonktrolls
I remember that speech very well but thank you for the reminder.
Yes, it is well worth reading or hearing his words again, especially now.
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352: Funny thing, when I hinted a couple of days ago that this might just be one of three Republican responses to Powell's then putative endorsement that I could imagine, my post was referred to the moderators. Now someone SHOUTS it. I've seen the other two here as well.
But then I have read a fair bit about how right-wing propaganda works. Doesn't change, I see.
Depressing.
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351,
My $0.02 of concerns about Palin is based on how little the Alaskan economy resembles that of the lower 48.
Alaska gets far more Federal money than it gives.
For all the tax cut talk from McCain-Palin, remember that Alaska taxes resource extraction much more than Nevada, for example, the most 'mining-friendly' state according to industry.
Palin and Stevens backed off from the bridge to nowhere under anti-pork pressure, but kept all the money.
We simply can't afford to manage the lower 48 the way that beautiful, mythic, exciting - but profligate - Alaska is managed.
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Post #327; peterib wrote: "Comparing a socialist model of public transportation (no choice) with the NorthAm one (individual freedom) is definitely not comparing apples to apples".
With each new post you expose your ignorance of other countries. What on earth is this supposed to mean?
"No choice"? "Individual freedom"? What are you talking about?
Most nations with a public transport system actually sub-contract it to private corporations. Australia and the UK are classic examples. In the UK I can choose between a number of different rail carriers and bus services along the same route.
Please, learn something about the world beyond your doorstep before you attempt to criticise it.
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No 353 moderate observer: thank you for that post, what many fail to realize is that we are paying for health care that we are not getting. In some instances, like hospitals, costs are driven up because their ER facilities must care for gravely ill or injured people that have no insurance and no way to pay. Hospitals work for profit. Everyone's hospital bill goes up when this happens. However if that same person could have gone to a doctor when they had a cold, before they got pneumonia..if that same person that got hit by a truck could have had insurance so the hospital would not have had to take a loss and pass that on to other paying consumers..gotta think about that. I know a young couple, and she was in intern when last we spoke. She was thinking of walking away from her medical career because from what she could see, the entire industry was not about health care..it was about making as much profit as possible. Now, she wanted a decent living, and needed to be able to repay her loans, but the atmosphere to her was poisoned and she was very disappointed with her choice of vocation, once she got a taste of what it was really like here in the US. I hope she found an answer, she was a bright and wonderful girl. I think there are many good doctors out there who would rather give care than have to be a CEO and Surgeon all at the same time. Sure, some would quit, but maybe we would be better off without them? And what if the drug companies were to spend those advertising dollars on research instead of pandering medications to people who probably don't need them? There has to be some middle ground where costs can be contained, while still providing care for all. And yes, taxing my benefits so my daughter (who has no coverage) can get a $5,000 rebate that goes to an insuance company that is out to make a profit above all else..that just doesn't sound like a good plan to me. $5,000 would not cover even one of the operations she has had in the past to save her life. Not in this market. I fear for her. I'll vote for "That One".
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Post #358; moderate_observer wrote: "#348 sankari please understand, he/she is a white african like Pieter Botha and Fw. De-Clerk.
everything is black or white".
That would make him a Boer, surely. I would not call the Boers African (except by nationality). Anyway, didn't he also claim to be Nigerian?
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319. At 5:51pm on 20 Oct 2008, DougTexan wrote:
From the Politico, a little insight to 'some' of the right that see Powells endorsement as 'racist',...
"Secretary Powell says his endorsement is not about race," Limbaugh wrote in an e-mail. "OK, fine. I am now researching his past endorsements to see if I can find all the inexperienced, very liberal, white candidates he has endorsed. I'll let you know what I come up with.
For what that's worth (nuthin'), it is interesting that you nor I can find a liberal endorsed by Powell. "
Don't think you will find he endorsed many fascists either.
If I may be so bold, stocking up on food is good for either side in a mandate/landslide election, and with the steady increase in food cost, it is a savings of money as well as life. Remeber the survivors six 'S's.
Seeds, Shovels, Spinners, String, Shotgun and Shells folks, don't forget to keep seeds on hand, shovel for planting, spinners 'n' string for fishin', shotgun and shells for hunting. Don't lock your doors, think 'rock soup'..... oh, marbles, you and I maybe better located for my survival tips. I don't know what I'd do in a city... any ideas."
Well a basic medical kit might be a bit more useful than a shotgun, more valuable too.
"I'd like also to point out that Obama may have trouble with a full democrat congress, overspending and rubberstamp party aliances could hurt his policies and budget plans with abundant pork, just as the republicans did."
That's up to him and his capabilities
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Greetings,
Senator McCain didn't choose Governor Palin - at least, not actively.
The right-wing of the Republican party - the self-styled "Moral Majority" - did so.
The fact that Senator McCain didn't have the backbone - ie, was too afraid of the backlash - to oppose them, does not indicate someone capable of turning the tide.
Any tide.
The extreme right-wing of the GOP is slowly colouring the party like a red algal bloom approaching from the horizon - with the same toxicity.
[This situation within the GOP is strangely reminiscent of that which befell the Labour Party, here in the UK, when it went to the extreme "loony left" end of the political spectrum. Even the mainstream pillars of the Labour Party seemed unable to do anything to stem the tide. Instead, it took the then Conservative PM, Mrs. Margaret Thatcher's vastly derisive put-downs to knock some sense into them, which eventually resulted in Tony Blair.]
He simply does not have "the right stuff" to lead - to set the standard and change the direction of the mob.
His attempt to "grandstand" - with his failed ploy at appearing to sort out the economic crisis in the vain hope of associating its resolution with the grandiose suspension/resumption of his campaign - is another indication of a lack of character.
And judgement - both economic and political.
One can see that he is no more capable of finding solutions to the current and future problems facing the world than Governor Palin.
It's past time for the rational, centrist Republicans to sort out their own house if they ever wish to be reconsidered as anything other than a vehicle for those who believe that Man walked with dinosaurs a few thousand years ago - "guns and religion", as Senator Obama coined it.
I certainly hope that Senator Obama does win the election and lives up to the expectations heaped upon him - he needs to if another non-white American ever hopes to become President.
Kindest regards,
James
(A Irish man in the UK)
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"351. At 7:59pm on 20 Oct 2008, seanspa wrote:
Stu, here is an alternative to your comments in #333 on Palin.
The people of Alaska obviously disagreed, when firstly electing her and then in giving her a very high approval rating. If the job was so easy, why didn't the sitting governor get re-elected?"
Maybe they were worse, maybe they were infirm, maybe the Right establsihment felt Palin would be more malleable.
"Her fundamentalist Christian views are totally incompatible with holding any office. She would have "creationism" taught in school science classes alongside Darwin's theory of evolution.
All very scary, except she has a track record here. You don't actually have to go on what you fear may happen, you can look at what has happened. She hasn't tried to have creationism taught in Alaskan schools. Furthermore, the furore about her trying to ban books when first mayor of Wasilla was a storm in a teacup. She didn't try to ban any books, even after the librarian who told her that she was not able to have input into what books were held was later replaced."
Well sinister enough surely the librarian told her this weas unwise and lost her job.
And either she believes in creationism or she doesn't and if she does she would object to children being taught diametrically opposed to her beliefs.
Remember Creationism masquerades as a science, not a religous belief, that is the nature of the dishonesty which makes it so contemptible.
"Her dragging of abortion into politics yet again .....
OK, I'm uncomfortable here, but she has not said, as far as I am aware, that it should be outlawed, I believe the position is that the states should each be able to decide."
Again she either beleives or she does not and if she doesn't she would hardly act in ways to support freedom of choice.
Personally I do not beleive she cares a hoot for either creationism or abortion - she simply cares about power and plays to the right-wing to win elections.
As you say when in power all she was interested in was bolstering her position, not fighting genuine political battles for her beliefs.
"Remember that the existing congress has a lower approval rating than the existing president. Having someone from ouside of the senate, and one wth a high rating to boot, made a great deal of sense."
Not really, whatever the make-up the President and the Congress have to work together. It is therefore vital that at the VP, who is president of the Senate, has some considerable interest and understanding of federal politics and can keep the President informed.
Palin did not even seem to know what the Supereme Court was about - yet she would be advising on appointments etc
Simply sqawking that one does not understand FP and that this is a good thing is ridiculous.
As for people voting against their economic interests, I think the highly charitable Sam and David might both say this is not necessarily a bad thing.
I'm not arguing that she is perfect, but I do think that she has been unfairly demonized by people scared that she might have swung things in McCain's favour.
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Whats truly sad is if Obama came out today and said I want to overturn Roe vs Wade. He would be in double degits all across the board. The right-wing good christains can't get away from that one issue. Its ok to let kids die of hunger, Its ok for so many people losing thier jobs to become depressed and kill their wife and kids and its even ok for them to start a war on lies where thousands of kids have died and are dying everyday. But the thought that a black man might be president you would think the world was coming to an end. I ask these people like Palin one question do you really think Jesus would approve of all of this?
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Powell’s words kind of reflect my way of thinking. Once I could see that the likely Republican candidate would be McCain, I felt very at ease. I liked McCain, so even if Hillary or Obama lost in the November, at least the country would be in good, capable hands. But after McCain announced Palin as his running mate, and once I learned more of her views and how she treated public office, I felt angry with McCain. Why did he choose an unknown, why did he force this choice on us, knowing he would be the oldest man ever to be sworn into office? Do the Christian conservatives have such a strong hold on this man, this party? I am just mad that he would put our country in this situation.
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#350
Yes.
Helpful Sam
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#350 Icetayao:
"I have been called a fool, a racist and now my nationality is on the spotlight, just because i happen not to be hypnotized by Obama's rethoric. i really do pity Joe the plumber."
You've been called a fool because you made foolish remarks in the blog equivalent of screaming at the top of your voice.
You've been called a racist because you presume others' motiviations are purely racial, perhaps you see yourself mirrored in them?
Your nationality is in question because you yourself raised the issue as proof of the validity of your prespective on such matters.
If you are going to insert yourself into a debate you must expect to be questioned on your statements when you offer so much certainty with so few facts.
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367. DraganGlas wrote:
[This situation within the GOP is strangely reminiscent of that which befell the Labour Party, here in the UK, when it went to the extreme "loony left" end of the political spectrum. Even the mainstream pillars of the Labour Party seemed unable to do anything to stem the tide. Instead, it took the then Conservative PM, Mrs. Margaret Thatcher's vastly derisive put-downs to knock some sense into them, which eventually resulted in Tony Blair.]
True but at tad simplistic The History of the British Labour Party is very complex, from Harold Wilson's resignation on wards. The machnations of both left and right (gang of three etc), the beytral of the liberals during Callighan's Premiership. If you want to know more read various books on the history of the Labour party, two come to mind but I can't remember there names, any the author's are Hillery Wainwright, and Bryan Gould
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#367
Oh, well said! I blushingly admit that I don't know as much about UK politics as I should, but what you said about the situation here in the U.S. is spot on!
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Justin, what of the so called Bradley effect. White voters especially in the swing states may say one thing to a pollster but may act on something more visceral in the safety of the voting booth. Also might the Democrats get complacent and not vote in the numbers their projected to.
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#351 - thank you for a well presented view from your side of the fence regarding Sarah Palin.
I'm not an expert on Alaskan politics, but there does seem to the casual observer to be enough "pork" and scratching (troopergate) in a short period to be wary.
Simon21 made a point I agree with in 368 - given that her stated views on creationism and abortion and other emotive, but ultimately non-poitical issues are so strong, I feel scared that when in power she would feel "morally obliged" to work towards their furtherance. A situation I would not be happy with.
In addition another 4 years of the Christian Right appointing Supreme Court judges opens an overturning of Roe v Wade .... and that way lies barbarism.
Finally when David & Sam (by the the way thank you both for many many informative and amusing posts) talk about voting against ones economic interests, I believe they are refering to the charitable wealthy voting for a higher taxes and beter public services for all ..... NOT poorer people voting for fewer public services, and a huge spend on foreign wars.
I really am not worried about her, as I am confident that future historians will see her appointment as the moment the Republicans lost the plot. She will surely turn more people off, than she turns on (politically I mean!!!)
All in all though it was a pleasure to read your post, as it made its point eloquently, without shouting.
We must however agree to differ.
Peace to all (even Sarah Palin)
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#328 icetayoa
"Breaking News"
It's up for grabs now.
McCain resurgant as Bush endorses Obama.
It's a dirty, negative tactic but it might be his only way back.
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Stu, websitejnkie, thanks. There are some here who think that those who disagree with them are evil, that those who advocate tolerance are mere dweebs. Personally (I think I've said this to Stu before about religion), I can accept that different people have different views and it doesn't mean I can't like or get along with them.
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376. At 11:00pm on 20 Oct 2008, RomeStu wrote:
All in all though it was a pleasure to read your post, as it made its point eloquently, without shouting.
We must however agree to differ.
Peace to all (even Sarah Palin)
See a proper productive civilised debate.
'Through proper debating comes ideas. Through ideas comes good policy, through good policy comes good governance.'
----Tony Blair; Speech to the 1995 Labour Party Conference.
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#353
Why have you decided that the govn't interference will a panacea for a healthcare system?
Yes, the ins companies in USA deny the provision of services: the same is valid for the provincial and fed govn'ts in Canada. The reasons may be different, but the outcomes are identical. Are you aware of the fact that Canadian women have, on numerous occasions, been transferred to US private hospitals to give birth, as there were no available hospital beds in the respective Canadian provinces? Are you aware of the fact that more than 300 emergency patients are transferred on a regular basis from ON to Buffalo US for treatment? Are you aware of the fact that thousands visit US, India, Thailand, Singapore, HK, etc. for such routine treatments and operations, as bypasses, hip replacement, cataract, etc?
My question to the US posters again is: why on earth would you subscribe to the past-its-due-date EU econo-social model? Would you like to live in an environment of stagnant economy, high unemployment, high interest rates, high taxes, lower personal/business investment and consumption, balooning deficits because of welfare addiction (Japan's is 150% of its GDP; Italy's is 100%, France's 70%, etc.), multiculti delusion of identity, etc?
My only hope is that the EU econo-social malaise reaches its final stages ASAP, so that EU's inevitable demise serves the Americans a good lesson. Keep your capitalism intact. Good luck.
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so what is your suggestion peterib ? who cannot afford it simply go treat themselves or die?
i dont think govt intervention is the panacea for a system it has its flaws but i believe a more balanced appoach can be reached.
ok here is an idea i would suggest? based on your income, you are allowed to get healthcare coverage of X amount. if your expenses are more expensive than X then you apply for government assistance. it would let people who can afford it buy their way, and heaven forbid they become too ill, the government steps in (care in catastrophic situations).
These euro countries you speak of are also not insolvent as yet so im not sure how u determine their economic model as failures.
a country can afford to pay for what they feel is a priority, it will always be that way, all that matters is that they have the resources to support their habits.
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peterib, you may not see the importance for a lot of emphasis on adequate health care, but i strongly believe a country cannot grow or be prosperous if its population cannot stay healthy or be educated.
Economic growth and innovation cannot thrive without the contribution of its population, somehow restricting these 'privelages' to the wealthy is a sure way to drain your economy of its most important resource.
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#22
"they would be horrified at what's hapenning now......"
As most of us are, and that is why Obama gets our vote!
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378. seanspa wrote:
Stu, websitejnkie, thanks.
Not at all, as I have said in the past, I don't mind debating views, as long as they are articulate, educated and researched, and not a diatribe of sometimes offensive nonsense.
Sometimes I can seem a little terse and sarcastic in my replies. If I have offended anyone I do apologise.
However I hate people that produce a load of crap and shout about it when presenting this crap, so I will continue to treat it with the ridicule it deserves.
I too think that some of the press Palin has received has been offensive, and though I fundamentally disagree with her views. Personal abuse and ridicule is belittling and offensive. Even though from the speeches I have heard her give, she has appered to have done the same, I wouldn't use the same tactic back, because I wouldn't want to stoop to that level.
I would however state why I wouldn't agree with her in a calm and concise manor. (In the way Obama has been doing). Yes I would use sarcasm, because I'm English, and us English love sarcasm!
When McCain and Obama were chosen, I thought great we are going to get a proper intelligent calm debate. I have listened to both McCain and Obama's speech's in the Senate, and they are both wonderfully articulate speakers. Unfortunately McCain for what ever reason lost the plot. Why he resorted to slanging tactics I'll never fully understand (Was it pressure from RNC?), but it's not him, and you can see that in his mannerisms, particularly in the third and final debate. It really looked like he didn't believe in what he was saying, (not on policy issues there he seemed to come more alive), but on other matters - such as the way he attacked Obama on ACORN, it seemed to me that he didn't want to do it that way. I bet if he would of been allowed to attack Obama in his own elequint way, as he would of done in the Senate he would of looked much better.
I mean compere his last debate to the the speech he gave at the Al Smith dinner, this was the proper McCain - it should of been shown on the hustings. Not the McCain we got.
I really hope he hasn't damaged his reputation to much, because the US would lose a very good Senator.
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346. At 7:35pm on 20 Oct 2008, amustang wrote:
"AND No: 327: I hear this again and again, and I really don't believe that funding providers had a gun to their head saying "loan to this deadbeat or else the government is going to close your doors". That's ridiculous. They did it because they wanted the profit from the interest that they could get and gambled on the housing market. They felt they could FORCLOSE after making all the interest money and make a profit on that real estate because it would have gained in value. They knew going in it was a risk and they accepted that. Same for developers, greed drove them to overextend. Same others who joined the feeding frenzy. "
Your ignorance of the way the financial/banking sector works is excusable: what is inexcusable is making audacious and totaly unsubstantiated claims based on that same ignorance.
No banker/lender in his/her right mind would lend at 100% LTV (no down pay), or underwrite a ninja loan/mortgage, unless there is a (quasi)govn't guarantor behind to sholder the risk. That's why in good ole times the mortgages were conventional (i.e. 75% LTV), backed by solid income proof. Since minortities and low-income segments would never qualify, the "social justice" utopia ("affordable housing") was imposed on the banking sector through the Community Development Act, HUD, Fannie and Freddie, and the banking/financial sector accepted it gratefully, since the govn't promised to shoulder the (subprime) risk. Subprime mortgage bundles were securitised, sold, secured and insured by overlay of derivatives, and duly bombed at some point. The rest is history.
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#318 "ok here is an idea i would suggest? based on your income, you are allowed to get healthcare coverage of X amount. if your expenses are more expensive than X then you apply for government assistance. it would let people who can afford it buy their way, and heaven forbid they become too ill, the government steps in (care in catastrophic situations).
These euro countries you speak of are also not insolvent as yet so im not sure how u determine their economic model as failures.
a country can afford to pay for what they feel is a priority, it will always be that way, all that matters is that they have the resources to support their habits. "
You have just suggested opening the Pandora box of abuse of the healthcare system. Everyone will want to be a free rider. If it were that simple, you'd be an Obama advisor as from Nov 5. Obama's plan is a tired, old, socialist deja vu all over again. As are his other policies: look at the EU malaise, and see US future under Obama. I lament that future of a truly great country. Beware of Canadianising/Europenising your country.
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385:
Oh dear I thought we were all going to be sensible from now on.
'My only hope is that the EU econo-social malaise reaches its final stages ASAP, so that EU's inevitable demise serves the Americans a good lesson. Keep your capitalism intact. Good luck.'
See that's the raving crap I was talking about. Please can some one give this blogger a happy pill to calm them down. If people like you ever come to power god help the rest of the world!
With that I'm going to be to dream about this wonderful utopian democratic European society that we live in.
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I have just had a nightmare where a neo-con yet again called Obama Socialist.
How many times do we have to say OBAMA IS NOT SOCIALIST!
I even posted a definition of what a socialist is. Now please grow up and stop repeating all this Rovian drivel!
A very pissed off european!
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so not attempting a policy because of its potential for abuse is a good idea, you find me any policy ever implemented that has never been abused?
the current capitalism system is being abused and you yourselves have just stated its not a good reason to throw it out.
abuse of any system can be legislated around and yes there will still be a few who will find some cracks but it doesnt mean you throw out an entire system that benefits millions because a few hundred abuse it.
im not suggesting abandoning capitalism that would be stupid because its the only system we have found that worked so far, but saying the government should just stay out is also silly.
If we want the government to stay out of every afair then i wonder why is it important to elect them to office if their job is to do nothing.
my only suggestion is that the government is an insurer of last resort, as opposed to the primary insurer, your suggestion is.................................
i think govt officials should earn their salary and stop trying to sell the notion that nothing is their responsibility.
i take it you still live in canada, im sue you have an ohip card in ur wallet though.
last i checked canada was carrying a surplus, and their economy wasnt doing so bad, and i have not heard of any western european states failing as yet.
you can mention france, but france is an extreme version of big government and outdated policies with low productivity. and to this point they are not yet a failed state.
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324. At 6:06pm on 20 Oct 2008, Ed Iglehart
Ah the smell of coke in the morning.
Better than coal, strip mining bad.
Fortunately the coke I get is processed in a way that does make a by product that is used for roads (bad again so how fortunate?).
It is shipped here . The iron/steel is scrap , destined to be sent to china to smelt and back again to be a thinner version of an older product that will break quicker in order to resume the journey back again.
At least I interrupt that cycle;).
I use no gas etc consumables other than coke so not bad two tonnes will last a long time.
That's the good thing about building for the long haul it makes it worth getting some nice hinges:)
Like you the rest of life helps mitigate some of the carbon output.
How ever still a guilt.(less than any other job I get though:):):)
Food not lawns.
NPR had a good fresh air today with Michael Pallin on .I assume you must be familiar. the rest should get familiar.
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#11
McCain is sitting pretty despite the defection from GOP of the former Secretary
of State to lend support to Democrat BHO.
If as McCain claims, he has the backing of
four former Secretaries and close upon 200
senior Retired Admirals and Generals-which
I have no reason to doubt-the impact of the backing from the former (GOP) Secretary for
BHO is no big deal, notwithstanding all the fanfare in the media.
One thing to be said in favor of Palin is that
she is anything but a bore. In fact she is a very interesting and by my reckoning,and one of the most clever persons who is a quick learner. Like how she proved
her mettle in Alaska as well as at the Republican Convention and the Vice Presidential debate, by the time Senator
McCain finishes his term as President-I don't
for a moment doubt that-or well before that she will be in fine fettle to run Presidential
affairs on her own.
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Scribesolomon
Why BHO? Why not Obama? You can say McCain, why not Obama?
"One thing to be said in favor of Palin is that
she is anything but a bore" Hmmmm interesting term of phrase for a possible President, what are her policies? she proved her mettle in alaska by firing opposition and shocking nepotism.
She knows nothing of foreign or domestic policy outside of Alaska.
Change your user id solomon, wisdom sin't your thing.
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Justin Webb provides us with no evidence to support his "fact" that Sarah Palin has cost John McCain the election. Justin clearly doesn't understand the differance between an "opinion" and a "fact." For example most people that I spoke to today found Sarah Palin to be "funny" on SNL this weekend whereas Justin states "she is not funny." To say she cost McCain the election does a disservice to Bush, Cheney, John McCains campaign manager, the core Republican base and Obama. She improved McCains poll numbers temporarily and then inevitably the numbers went down again. She is more popular with Republicans than he and if anything you could argue that he cost her the VP...for now.
I would hope that in the future the BBC would ask their so called reporters to actually provide facts and content before plugging their lazily written and ill informed opinions as "facts."
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scribesolmon, palin's report card on Alaska is still pending. she has only been governor for 2 years so its hard to declare her job as successful. 2 years is like a day in politics. Time will tell if Alaska is doing well after her policies take effect.
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387. At 00:35am on 21 Oct 2008, websitejunkie wrote:
385:
"Oh dear I thought we were all going to be sensible from now on.
'My only hope is that the EU econo-social malaise reaches its final stages ASAP, so that EU's inevitable demise serves the Americans a good lesson. Keep your capitalism intact. Good luck.'
See that's the raving crap I was talking about. Please can some one give this blogger a happy pill to calm them down. If people like you ever come to power god help the rest of the world!
With that I'm going to be to dream about this wonderful utopian democratic European society that we live in."
Thank you, websitejunkie. It's as sure as taxes and death: the good ole ad hominem from a leftie without any serious arguments. The last resource. Good night, Campanella/Moore/Fournier. You go to bed a utopian, and wake up a marxist. (R)evolution a la mode.
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The latest AP polls show McCain @ 42% & Obama @ 44%. So much for polls. GW Bush was down by 11 points to Gore just days before the election. Palin has energized the conservative base as she is the only conservative on the ticket and in fact may have been the only conservative in the republicam primaries. You and the rest of the pundits are going to be embarrassed once again.
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# 389
I am not running for president, therefore you are barking up the wrong tree for policy proposals: please check with Mr Obama. Unfortunately, his revolutionary copycat healthcare policies have failed in the former commie block, and failing in Canada and EU.
Yes, I have my OHIP card. More importantly though, I have my critical illness ins, and hope to make it to Pearson International when one of the niceties on the coverage list knocks on my door. One of the greatest killers in this country is The Waiting List.
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To McCain/Palin Supporters: The race is close. That means an "inevitable win" could just as easily be postured for McCain as for Obama. The socialist's strategy is to discourage you so that you will not vote. "Let not your heart be troubled." ;) Go forth, Silenced Majority, and Vote McCain/Palin!
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lol i mentioned that earlier nobody likes waiting 9 months to 2 years for a hip replacement. but regardless, the current system in the US is failing those who dont have money, its perfect if you have money, and of course you shouldnt care because if you need basic care you can always go to the government funded practitioner, in ontario. and not depend on a private insurer.
so i suppose you have the best of both worlds.
on the other hand americans have to use up that insurance for everything down to a 5 minute doctors visit.
note that if you get really sick, you m