McCain's recovery plan
This is the extent of the problem for McCain - and the key phrase is this:
"Powered chiefly by the public's economic concerns, Obama leads John McCain by 10 points among likely voters, 53%-43%, in this ABC News/Washington Post poll. Though every race is different, no presidential candidate has come back from an October deficit this large in pre-election polls dating to 1936."
So here is how he does it:
1 the markets begin to recover (apparently done)
2 he has a good debate on Wednesday
3 the nation wakes up to the fact that Democrats are about to be in control of Congress (no serious person thinks the Republicans can take back either house) and the White House. This is a slow burner for the last week or so of the campaign but I think it's worth 2 or 3 percent for McCain.
It is straight talk: "OK - you don't like me much, but do you seriously want the nation to be run, unchecked, by Obama and his left-wing pals?"
I wonder whether it might bring Virginia back on board - or Ohio.
Hello, I'm 
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This is so silly! Why would we gamble our nation's presidency on this? They both voted for a taxpayer bailout of corporate criminals. That's OUR money paying for THEIR mistakes without any public hearing or them ever asking US.
Taxation without representation.
Realizing Ralph Nader has no shot at winning, it's time we look to him for common sense, if not our votes. He predicted this (http://www.beachwoodreporter.com/politics/nader_predicted_wall_street_me.php) and has been speaking across the nation against this. Our presidency is more important than this.
Obama voted to pardon our president for breaking a law (see FISA Act). What does that say about his idea of what a president is?
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I guess that would always be a good argument for McCain but one that would only really appeal to the voters who would have voted for him anyway. And I think Americans would prefer an Obama Presidency with a Republican House and Senate than McCain with the current House and Senate.
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Dear Mr. Webb: One thing about your post...there's no "left-wing" in american politics (such a shame). But, we get the point. Love the blog.
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Well.. in Virginia we'll keep trying to keep the McCain train from starting back up. Canvassing, phone calling, just gonna keep working!
VA for Obama! 08 :-)
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I don't think it matters. In order to win, he'd have to take all of his current leaning states and all the current toss-up states. Obama only has to take all of his leaning states and one of the toss-ups (unless that one is Nevada, which would produce a tie).
Plus, the US economy is still hemorrhaging jobs. That won't change any time soon, no matter what the stock market does.
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The prospect of Obama+Pelosi+Reid, with Barney Frank circling around them.
Supreme Court Justices of Obama's choosing, with no recourse to oppose them.
Ditto for Federal judges, appointed for life.
Perhaps Hillary Herself, (or Bill!!) on the high court, for life. No requirement in the Constitution that any Federal judge have a law license.
The list goes on and on...is this what we really want?
The economy is really scary right now, but is this group of faces the real answer?
Aren't we more than a large economy?
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Considering the fact that our nation was led for six years by a man whose intellect, vision, and common sense are, as a minimum, questionable why shouldn't we give a chance to a well educated, visionary, energetic, and knowledgeable individual who has in his team seasoned veterans like Rubin and Volcker?
The reality is that Obama's fiscal and economic policies and proposals are more conservative than McCain's socialist proposals, and Obama's calm and steady demeanor is preferable to the irascible, impulsive and unpredictable behavior of his opponent.
Perhaps you can give British citizenship to Bush, Cheney, McCain and Palin and make them members of Parliament. I am sure they would do wonders on the other side of the Atlantic.
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With the surge in the markets, all appear to be buoyed by the European models for the economic recovery packages of the banks.
Since it appears that Europeans and their ways are seen to be 'liberal' or at worst 'socialist', does this play into Obama's hands?
McC et al are vehemently against any form of socialism...yet it has been clearly demonstrated socialism when used responsibly has major benefits....just look at the worldwide markets today.
Will the electorate make the link between the unregulated free markets of the type the Republicans advocate and its ensuing disaster and between the European, (Democrats) style intervention to stem such a disaster.
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Well yeah... Republicans are historically the most corrupt and religiously extreme. Any party that simply cries "Love America or leave it!", claims that we are a Christian nation when our founding fathers specifically divided church and state and highly valued our right to individual spiritual freedom... need I go on... down with Sarah Palin...
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My apologies--hit 'post' earlier prematurely.
I read the article Mr. Webb referred us to, from ABC, which is relevant and well-written.
My eye strayed over the sidebar, under 'Most Read', to see the headline about the $121,000 payment by a Florida Congressman to his mistress. I couldn't resist, I confess.
I read the story...
It's fascinating reading, and really quite relevant to this subject.
Do we want guys like this running the country, managing the economy, making decisions about the defense of the country?
If behavior like this is undertaken by Republicans--off with their heads, and rightly so! But undertaken by Democrats...a deafening silence about the indelicate subject of a potential resignation.
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Americans are FINALLY realising that John McCain is part of the current economic problem. He's been serving in the US Senate for 25 years, and he and his (Republican) party are the chief authors of the deregulation that led to the recent debacle. How could the Democrats possibly make things worse?
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I'm a lifelong republican voting for Obama this fall, and yes it does make me nervous to have an entirely left government. Let's just forget about checks and balances shall we? But I believe that Obama would at least try to include conservatives in decision-making. I trust that he would do his best to reach solutions that both conservatives and liberals can live with.
I can't say as much for Congress, however.
I wish we could have a happy medium. The ideal for me would be to have a democratic tax/health care plan while preserving moderately conservative values about abortion & other social issues [note, I do NOT condone going as far right as Palin].
Can't we all just be moderates and get along? lol, I guess not as it takes all kinds to make a world. But both right and left extremes are dangerous and should probably be avoided - let's go as moderate as we can, for the sake of pretending to be a unified, "one nation".
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"OK - you don't like me much, but do you seriously want the nation to be run, unchecked, by Obama and his left-wing pals?"
Did British voters consider that in 1997 or more recently? It's a stupid question because most of the country does not want eight more years of a Republican in The White House and the prospect of Sarah Palin succeeding Mr McCain is too awful to contemplate. To tar Mr Obama with having "left-wing pals" is as bad as saying that Mr McCain will surround himself with "rabid right-wingers who are only interested in lining their own pockets." It is unbecoming for Justin to use such language in his effort to balance his former pro-Obama opinions; this is not 'straight talk', it is rabble rousing of the worst kind and he should be ashamed.
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British-ish
I did happen to pop back to the last blog briefly and caught your link. Thanks! Rather UK-ocentric, but I've since found a few more global sites.
I was half seriously thinking of starting one of these sites after Sam's encouraging comment, but after seeing all the possible sites that already exist, I'll either have to find some new twist that makes my site stand out, or chuck it in.
I replied to you here because I figured I'd be more likely to catch you, rather than in 'been there, done that' land.
Thanks again!
Jeff
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Justin,
We should all vote for Kevin Phillips Bong.
Slightly Silly Sam
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McCain still doesn't catch on. Now he is going to talk tough. It seems I remember when McCain was saying that Obama was all talk and no substance. He is describing himself.
He continues his silly tricks. First he puts Palin on board. He drops back in the polls because she makes us laugh. Then he tries the racist tack. All he gets is a backlash and lots of disgusted commentaries. His newest ploy? The fighter shouting down the wimp.
He just doesn't get it.
(As for the market, don't expoect the numbers are going to go flying upwards.)
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8, Dominick.
Concise and clear. There is noting left to be said.
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#15
Jeff,
Maybe you could ask folks to include their kinky stuff?
Dirty Sam
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#11
South,
I would opine that if he paid her off, he should resign. He has asked for it to be investigated so hopefully they can do that before election day and if he doesn't have the decency to resign IF he paid her off then his constitueants should vote the bum out.
On the other hand if he had an affair only that's between him, her and his family. Same way the Republicans do it.
Sad Sam
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#11 cmon oldsouth, so one dem. congressman in florida allegedly gave money to his mistress and that is reflective on the entire party?
Im sure you can find pooliticians on both sides who are currently under investigation, and incidentally, Sarah Palin who is bidding for the white house job was just confirmed to have abused her powers and 'betrayed the public trust'. as governor.
she may not go to jail for it but currently alaska legislators now have the authority to take disciplinary actions against her because of this conclusion. SO if you want to talk about who can be trusted? lets look on the flaws of both sides.
This split government argument would have serious basis if it wernt so flawed by the candidates who are currently promoting it.
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Justin, I can understand your desire to counter the accusations of bias hurled at you in these comment threads, but do we really need another pointless throw-McCain-a-bone hypothetical exercise?
The dyed-in-the-wool conservative in the video posted on the 9th made many of the same points, but he is at least excused by wishful thinking. IF the economy magically bounces back, IF he can score a coup at the debate, IF the electorate "wake up" for some unknown reason (assuming a significant number even think in terms of balancing out the arms of government in this fashion) - this is idle speculation, not journalism.
At the moment, things are indisputably going Obama's way. This may change, as you say, and if it does you'll be there to comment on it in your usual incisive fashion. In the meantime, take a glance your byline; you are a the BBC's North America editor, not just another waste-of-space pundit.
Could the recent creation of two dedicated campaign blogs have left you with too little to write about? I hope not. This is, after all, "the world's most fascinating, open and complex place"...
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#11 old south
ps. in addition, to that current article, the media made the accusation against the congressman, but its not yet confirmed (altho i have a hunch that he is guilty) but he called an inquiry into his own actions so lets see what is found out. Why should he resign on an accusation?
and from the media itself it doesnt seem as if the party is letting the issue go idly.
"Mahoney, for his part, released a statement today requesting that the House Ethics Committee look into the matter -- the alleged mistress was on his staff -- but insisting he would ultimately be cleared of wrongdoing. "I am confident that when the facts are presented that I will be vindicated," said Mahoney.
Members of the Democratic Party were less willing to give Mahoney the benefit of the doubt.
"I just learned today about the serious allegations concerning Congressman Tim Mahoney," said House Speaker Nancy Pelosi. "These charges must be immediately and thoroughly investigated by the House Ethics Committee."
"
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/thefix/2008/10/a_florida_bombshell.html
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here is an article comparing Obama to Bush, he sounds like he is right of center on social issues in this article.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/13/wall.bush-obama/index.html
ironically this was writeen by a republican supporter to try to align obama with bush, but I think it only goes against a McCain talking point that Obama may be too liberal .
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*The Good, The Bad And The Ugly *
Free market capitalism is not dead. The conservative movement is not dead, but the Republican Party is on its knees, or will be shortly.
It is has become so excruciatingly embarrassing to be a Republican. David Brookes of the NYTs described Sarah Palin as a “cancer” on the Party. Christopher Buckley has abandoned the Party for which his father provided the intellectual foundation stone. Republican is now synonymous with ignorance, bigotry and incompetence.
There is no other conservative party in a modern democracy that would put up Sarah Palin as a VP candidate. Culturally conservative countries like Catholic Spain allow gay marriage. Until the Republicans grow up, they deserve to be kept out of power.
The inmates have taken over the asylum and ugliness is rampant in contemporary Republicanism. It may take at least two election defeats, as it did with the British Conservative Party, before conservative leaders come to their senses—there is no future in the 17th century.
*The Good*
Obama has a first rate, centrist economic team. If this team (and a desire to win a second term, unlike Carter) can keep the loony left in Congress at bay, there is hope that we can pull out of the current recession riding a wave of hope and public infrastructure spending. If, and it is a big if, Obama sticks to his tax program, he will do no harm to the economy, provided that in revising corporate tax policy, he doesn’t close too many of those loop holes, remembering that if he closes them all, the US would have the highest business taxes of all the advanced democracies. We have to hope that he is smart enough not to kill the goose that lays the golden egg.
We do need (private) affordable universal healthcare. It should be a right in a modern democracy. It is the morally appropriate thing to do and a well thought out move towards this goal should mitigate some of the fear of job loss and change, ultimately lessening fear of the global free market.
Obama’s Nixon goes to China moment may be in tackling the issue of performance pay in education. Although sadly opposed to parent choice and charter schools, he has made positive sounding noises on performance pay. The teaching profession needs to be radically reformed and Obama would have the political amity to make these changes, if he is brave enough to seize the moment.
Above all, Obama will transform the world’s perception of the US and if he exploits overflowing goodwill in the early years of his administration, who knows what he will accomplish in the Mid-East, with Russia and against international terrorism. The international euphoria (and it will be euphoria) may even partly help drag us out of a global recession—there is that level of irrational exuberance around his upcoming presidency.
*The Bad*
Of course, it could all go horribly wrong. Obama won’t be the first left leaning politician in history to realize (if he doesn’t already) that one thousand promises made on the campaign trail will cost one thousand times more to implement than is raised through tax increases on “the wealthiest Americans”. Add to that the existing deficit and the final cost of the bailout and technically, Obama will have no room for maneuver whatsoever.
The bad scenario sees Obama moving too quickly on too many fronts, spending too much money and crippling the economy with a wider range of tax increases than he will currently admit to. That is what has happened under Labour Party leadership in the UK, and that is why Prime Minister Brown, having taxed the life out of the economy, is destined to lose the next election in a landslide.
*The Ugly*
Two names that should strike fear into the hearts of any independent—Pelosi and Reed. Two of the most monumentally incompetent politicians to have ever been elected in the history of democracy. With approval ratings substantially below those even of Bush, these two are determined to salvage their reputations and left wing bona fides, having completely failed to close down the Iraq war as promised.
At least 80% of the risk associated with an Obama presidency is the certain pressure he is likely to come under from these two clowns and their fellow travelers on the Democratic wing of the Democratic party. There will be huge pressure on Obama to redress the income inequality gap that has grown in the Bush years. Additional income redistribution(the top 1% of earners already pay more than 33% of all taxes, where the bottom 50% of earners pays just 3.6%) , strengthened unions, trade barriers and protectionism are all strong possibilities.
This is an intoxicating cocktail for the left and a surefire way to bring a recession burdened economy to its depressive knees. As the commentariat gleefully surveys what they hope are the death throes of global capitalism, many believe that this is their best chance of implementing Euro-style social welfarism since the great depression.
The ugly scenario is ten years of economic stagnation as radical liberals, unchecked by an adoring media, regulate everything that moves, tax everything that’s earnt, and pour our dollars into anything that bleats, with no regard to outcome.
*And In The Final Reckoning*
To a certain degree, an Obama win is a good thing on two fronts for centrist Republicans. The natural centre right leaning of the American electorate and the constant pressure from conservative think tanks, cable news and talk radio has steered team Obama to articulate a reasonably centrist approach. So the question becomes, once in power, does Obama stick to his word and keep the American people with him, or does he do a Clinton and govern from the left in year one and two, conceding the House of Representatives back to the Republicans in the first mid-term of his presidency?
If Obama sticks to the centre, we are happy. If Obama capitulates to the radical left in his own party, the Republicans will be back on the Hill within two years, hopefully chastened somewhat, and we will have what seems to have worked best for America in the past—a centre left President, held in check by a Republican party better at managing the opposition then managing themselves.
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7. OldSouth
I don't see anyway to stop the Obama Express. Even if it was possible, I'm not so sure it would be the right thing to do.
I just have to think McCain*Palin and,.. I scratch my beard and wonder,.. The honorable,but past hisx prime soldier and the squeeky one, republican I am, but that is not my idea of a strong conservative, I believe in it ticket.
Even myself, I have thrown ever barrier in the way of Obama, to vote my life long party line, I can't find the flaw in Obama-Biden. I can in McCain*Palin. The find, the flaw would have to be so compelling, bad. and so awful for me to now vote McCain that,.. and, the lord as my witness, I've looked. It isn't there.
So I'll vote Republican for my House and Senate, and locally.
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We have Rush Limbaugh. BBC has Justin Webb. You're grasping at straws Justin. You lost. And by the way the market is not saved. We still have three more months of the Republicans destroying this country. Such a slapdash analysis to prove a worthless point.
McCain won't have a good debate because he bankrupt of ideas except to prolong the war. Americans are sick of being used by the cynical right wing machine.
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#13- regular_josephina,
you say you are a lifelong Republican voting for Obama this year. Just 2 things,
1. Do I assume you will then be voting for a Republican Representative and Senator? You were mentioning your worry about a completely Democrat dominated government.
2. And how common this year is it that lifelong Republican's are voting for Obama? There don't seem to be many Republican-turned-Democrats around...
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In other news, Canada's election is tomorrow. You can watch the results here: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canadavotes/story/2008/09/11/f-tvradiosched.html Or in French via: [Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator] Oh, and one of the weirdest election stories just came out of Canada... apparently Canadian Elections officials told a woman and her sons that their polling place was at a demolished church. (It wasn't.) What's even weirder is the name of said church... I won't spoil the surprise by revealing the name... but I'm sure someone will be humming the theme song... http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2008/10/13/to-eglintonpolling1013.html
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deep down i believe that obama would prefer a more republican house and senate if he were president, now he has to worry about battling his own party members who expects his stamp of approval on everything if he wins. Clinton had this problem while he was president.
at least if the opposing party is controlling the legislature, then they wont expect automatic approval and will try to be reasonable in their proposals.
pelosi gives me the creeps! but no surprise, all san francisco politicians are irritating! that place is a planet on its own.
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Folks,
Justin is not calling anyone "left-wing pals" or what not. He's simply saying what he thinks McCain should say. It's not a bad strategy.
If I were still a Republican, I'd also recommend that McCain emphasize pro-growth economic policies. Lots of people still don't understand the connection between interest rates, inflation, growth, and taxes. You can't just say "Reagan" or "Carter" and expect that people will automatically get it.
As an Obama supporter, I would urge Barack to counter the divided government argument by raising the specter of a Republican congress. Mathematically, it could happen, and low-information independents would probably buy it. Point out what has happened for the 6 years they were in power, and the 2 years they were obstructionist.
To OldSouth, who asked the important question, "Aren't we more than a large economy?" No. At least not in the eyes of our political leaders, especially but not exclusively the GOP.
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Well, three weeks today............
Three weeks ago today seems a lifetime ago and there will be at least one serious fresh weekly issue until 4th November plus daily twists and turns.
*If* the market confidence picks up as rapidly as it evaporated, what voting influence on your Main Street American family?
I have to say that behind the crop of recent headline grabbing events; the media frenzying and radically polarised people views going on right now, I have one grave concern.......... a serious level of anxiety and more, for the physical safety of Senator Barack Obama.
Federal security resources and the campaign supporting CP teams now need to be absolutely top of class, especially during this fever pitch countdown period.
Uncomfy topic absolutely...... and I regret to have to even say this. But, again, history provides a roadmap here. I also add that over the last week what we have witnessed, off the stump, has surely ranks as being one of the most incredibly irresponsible lighting of election firework touch papers witnessed?
For my money a campaign strategy team on either side of the political divide descending to this sort of dangerous low tells me how little authority, judgement and sway the actual supposed leader of the pack is exercising.
Bill
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Obama should get in as a Democrat, and
then switch parties, just to knock everybody
off balance and clean the idiots out of both
parties.
Better yet, win now, save the country and Western Civilization,
and in 4 years establish a new party, demolishing
what is left of the Democrats and Republicans.
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OldSouth said:
"Supreme Court Justices of Obama's choosing, with no recourse to oppose them.
Ditto for Federal judges, appointed for life."
YES! YES! YES! We'll get back equal pay, after that hideous decision that you have to file within 90 days of the discrepancy, which effectively means that you can't ever prove discrimination (because proof is based on a pattern).
And the anti-choice movement will be stalled. Speaking of "domestic terrorists."
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#32. BillTyrone: "*If* the market confidence picks up as rapidly as it evaporated, what voting influence on your Main Street American family?"
No-one whose home has been repossessed or is in the throes of foreclosure is going to care much about "market confidence". Like them, those who have lost their jobs will see the Republicans as the villains of the piece.
If something untoward should happen to Mr Obama, even as 'minor' as an injury, the McCain campaign and its operatives will be to blame; the incendiary comments about Mr Obama in public places have no place in this election. Rabble rousing is not the way to play, let alone win, and Mrs Palin must take a large part of the blame for the disgraceful behaviour reported. Nevertheless, Mr Obama should not be over-confident, a backlash could spread like wild fire there be should one more persistent and ill-founded rumour. It wouldn't take much for the "undecideds" to change their minds at the last moment. With only a few points separating the two candidates, a swing to McCain could very well result if Mr Obama peaks too early.
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The more i learn about mccain, the more similar to bush he appears.
(though he at least used his father's contacts to stay in the military when he should have been thrown out, rather than bush using them to stay out of it).
The more i learn about obama... the less i know.
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I do fear the hate level in the right is reaching a new height, add to that the innate racist foundations of their base. Some fear Obama has communist connections. The communists are perhaps worst than the fascists, but the Republicans are just as scary.
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The best thing about McCain losing, presuming that he does, is that the Democrats can cut Joe Lieberman loose. Lieberman may claim he is a Democrat, but he was voted in as an independent. Sooo...
Bye, bye, Joey
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35, David.
The market may rise a little, but then I'm guessing it will wobble up and down. If Obama wins I should think it will bump up again and them lose most, or all, of the bump. I wish I had numbers ESP, but alas....
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#39. allmymarbles: "The market may rise a little, but then I'm guessing it will wobble up and down."
Even if it rose a lot in the next three weeks, that's unlikely to affect those out-of-work or those whose homes are being foreclosed. The man-in-the-street most likely doesn't care about or follow the market and is busier looking for work to put food on the table. The job rate is not suddenly going to improve this late in the day!
My fear is that there will be some other "October (or November) surprise" that the McCain campaign is keeping in store, a spurious story which would be difficult to refute in such a short time. For example, the rumours about Obama's birth certificate being a forgery - supposing there was some (supposed) validity which could be dredged up. I really don't think it would take a lot to swing the balance to the right with regard to the Presidential race. Voters who changed their minds would assuage their conscience by voting Democrat in other races. The "elephant in the room" - the racial aspect - may yet have an influence. The lady who said Obama was an A-rab could be speaking for many bigoted people, although they would never admit to it.
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Add also a good deal of smear and there you have it: Gov. Palin, the new VP of the USA, soon to become President should Sen.McCain's health fail him
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Justin Webbs journalism is obviously 2nd rate hack writing.
He's just recycling the debates from better paid and more experience American journalists, adding a tinge of his British snobbery and ultimately exposing that his ignorance of the country he is paid to be an expert on is astounding.
Another classic example of the BBC hiring the wrong person, over paying them and getting little to no return on their investment.
The BBC's coverage of American politics is at best pathetic. Having lived in America for 4 years and taken part in the politics over there I remember the horrible cringing I had to endure everytime I watched BBC coverage from awful Journalists like Webb who fail to do even the most rudimentary research.
Webb's simplification of American politics into the European versions of Left and Right is the first warning sign that he's clueless.
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#8 DominickVila
That's right Dominck send Bush & Cheney straight to the UK include Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz as well. We''l add Blair and then ship the lot to the Hague.
Don't want McCain or Palin even as a comedy act we never could get our heads around what you call humour.
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Justin Webb mentions a few reasonably sensible and logical points that McCain might use in his favour.
What Webb does not mention is the importance of visual images in this video age - and by that score I reckon McCain dropped about 5 points when people saw him wandering around the podium last week.
He really did look as though he was past his sell-by date and his minders must have despaired.
By the same reckoning there is a visual aspect to Obama which is going to lose him a certain number of points whatever he does. His campaign has known that all along and it may be balanced by the number of people he brings to the ticket for the same reason.
McCain, at this stage, needs a new head and a new body. Someone get the man a Tardis !
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#23 moderate_observer
Why do you guys have all these hang ups about politics and sex. Brits do it as well. Sad, the question should be is he/she doing their job properly not what they're doing in the bedroom. The French do it better, they would be surprised if a politician didn't have a lover.
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Unfortunately for McCain, as long as Obama wins the Kerry states, Iowa, Colorado and New Mexico, which is looking pretty likely, getting back Virginia and Ohio just isn't going to do it.
It's going to be a landslide.
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#39 - marbles - Having written #40, I came across a CNN report; I don't think these people and others like them will care much about "the market" unless they are big-time investors. Very sad and reminiscent of 1929, not that I can remember it, but the actions seem similar.
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I have just read that the McCain team have said that they are keeping back their best efforts for the final ten days - that Obama is a weak finisher will limp to the line etc. etc.(they forget that lots of people seem to have voted already).
If they have all these cunning plans why on earth do they TELL everyone.
Obama's formidable team will be ready and waiting and will just give them a smart smack around the chops and send them back to their box.
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#25 andrewsrix
Thank you, most informative, in fact this blog is one of the best I've seen recently. Informative and little or no muck spreading.
To add my ten cents worth (nearly said pence).
I feel that aside from what the European states may, or may not have done correctly in the last few days something else has to change. I am afraid to say this but we have to discard the US economic growth model which has also been used to a large degree in the UK as well. We must go for slower and more sustainable growth, the practice of releasing huge amounts of credit to all and sundry might fuel the economy but when it goes wrong the pain is great.
In both the US and UK people have been encouraged to borrow more more and more the result is the pain we now see. The Chinese economy will also suffer from this reduction in credit to their best customers and will have to do more to satisfy their internal market which is no bad thing.
Take a look at France and Germany, their growth rates have been slower, they are both suffering at the moment but the populations of both countries are not wallowing in vast oceans of debt. They don't use credit cards and personal loan rates are much lower. Fiscal rectitude has, I think, become the order of the day.
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#32 BillTyrone
Amen to that.
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"the nation wakes up to the fact that Democrats are about to be in control of Congress (no serious person thinks the Republicans can take back either house) and the White House."
I think the nation (or hopefully the majority of us) have awaken to realize the Congress and White House will be controlled by Democrats. As both have been controlled by Republicans for 6 1/2 of the last 8 years.
I think it's better when we have the opposite party in control of Congress, that's the way our system of checks and balances is Supposed to work.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
I read that It's very difficult to get even a credit card in France. Bankers are very watchful when it comes to giving out credit cards to customers. As a result they do not have too many people in debt. We could take a leaf out of this.
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One problem with Justin's remedy: the market just shot up today precisely because it wanted and got some 'left-wing' politics. Still, I'd give a few percent to McCain out of pity. Wouldn't want him to lose Georgia, would we?
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53 paul939
You are correct. I have lived in France for 5 years now, I have a large house with no attached debt, a regular income which is more than my needs and what looks like a Gold Visa card, but it isn't. It's a debit card and all charges go straight to my bank account. After five years I was offered a credit facility of €2000. In the UK I had credit cards with £50,000 available to me and could have got more at any time.
I think Bush's removal of bankruptcy provision on credit card debt simply encouraged reckless lending practices.
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I always go back to the classic Bill Hicks sketch -
"Here's politics in America: 'I'm going to vote for the puppet on the left'...'I think the puppet on the right is more to my view...wait a minute! There's one guy holding up both puppets!!!!' GO BACK TO SLEEP AMERICA, YOUR GOVERNMENT IS IN CONTROL!".
As I'm not from that side of the pond, I cannot pretend to know what I'm talking about but, after over 16 years since this was written, I'm pretty sure you can draw your own conclusions on how things will play out regardless of who wins.
I'd like to think it will be Obama - let's just hope he makes a Mexican the VP for a little insurance... (Dave Chappelle)
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"The markets begin to recover (apparently done)"
Hmmm. I recall them jumping after every previous bailout. Within a week or two they are scraping new lows. Maybe this new super dooper rescue plan is different? I doubt it.
The present rate is about two new bailout plans per month. So I reckon time for two more "atomic weapon, mother of all, no really this is the last one to end them all" bailouts before the election.
I don't think anyone is fooled.
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As an independent, I have never been so eager to throw a party out of office as I am now. To me, its not about issues (as if the Republicans had any they were running on, other than shooting in the dark and cursing when they miss). It's about democratic renewal and the need, every now and again, for a political party to have it's clock cleaned. Republicans have been in power for 26 out of the last 28 years, and divided government is not enough at this point. If anything, a McCain victory would only make the Republicans more smug and off-base than ever before, which would lead to even bigger problems for America as a whole down the road (as well as make me wonder whether a Democrat could ever get elected President). I am tired of Republicans continuously searching for the next Reagan (I wish to remind the Republican Party that Ronald Reagan is dead) constantly accusing Democrats of being less American than they (can't we get back to a standard dictionary definition of what Americans are, please?) constantly complaining about media bias (#1, you guys have won 7 out of the last 10 elections, and #2, if Americans are whiners when they lose their jobs, what are you when someone calls you a name in a magazine?) and most of all, constantly rejecting all intellectual thought and cogent policy making as "elitist." It's not as if I will never vote for a Repubican again (I actually like my Republican governor quite a bit). But every now and again, a party needs some wilderness time, and that time is now.
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People and groups only make change when "the pain of change is less than the pain of the status quo". How bad must it become before people change? We've had 20 years of proven inept Whitehouse governance under Republicans and 8 years of relative competance under Democrats (Clinton) yet 80 million plus people want to vote in another Republican? Talk about masochistic propensity! The instant McCain chose Sarah Palin he became or should have become unelectable. Would any CEO be tolerated for hiring a second in command totally unsuitable for the position? (Depends what your goals are?)
I say Sam for a position in Obama's cabinet.
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PS All those American Eagle lapel badges folks wear to prove that they are more american than the rest are made in China.
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October suprise?
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No. 6:
"Perhaps you can give British citizenship to Bush, Cheney, McCain and Palin and make them members of Parliament. I am sure they would do wonders on the other side of the Atlantic."
-- It would never work. Any politician who thought winking at the electorate during televised events would be eviscerated by the press and ballot box alike.
Also: there is far, far less gutter politics and smear campaigns, at least in election times. I'm quite proud of the fact that we have a reputation for balanced, reasoned thinking. But of course it's just because we keep a healthy level cynicism. You can't sway many UK voters by simply using patriotism alone.
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^ Whoops. I meant that as a reply to No. 8
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# 59 malcolm
What position do you have in mind ? It's always risky to use words like that around these parts.
My earlier post that McCain is showing signs of wear and tear leads me to think of the benefits of a two-year campaign. It really does sort out the boys from the old men.
The gruelling schedule has taken its toll and McCain, in his erratic confusion, leads some to think that his candidacy is nothing but the vanity of an old man.
America thrashing around in its financial woes seems like nothing so much as a wounded old lion whose place is soon to be taken by a younger, more vigorous, leader of the pack.
Maybe it was always going to end like this. Maybe we should be grateful that the system, tortuous though it is, shows up all the faultlines.
Seen from a distance, America is in desperate need of a steady hand at the tiller. With its enormous arsenal of deadly weaponry, the world trembles at the thought of an old and tired maverick hand at the tiller. Backed up, ironically, by a potential second-in-command brandishing two things which are very familiar to this blog - Guns and Religion.
(with apologies to our own dear G&R - but there it is)
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The financial crisis will not be fixed by the election. Bush is now seeking to nationalise banks and the issue of executive pay has again come up. McCain will continue to thrash about wildly and Obama will remain steady on. And even as Palin continues to deny any ethics wrongdoing in Troopergate, the lipstick has faded.
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No.59
Quote: The instant McCain chose Sarah Palin he became or should have become unelectable. :Unquote
I am not saying your are right or wrong on that message, however, there possibly is a method in McCain's apparent madness. He knows how Washington works or in our eyes is not working, may be the only way to make real change is to put a "pit bull" type character in there and let it loose!
Good luck to whoever wins, they have a massive major task on their hands.
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55, timothy.
Much better than removing the bankruptsy provision on credit cards would have been to put a cap on interest rates. Once someone is in deep enough, he cannot pay off the debt because of the usurious interest.
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40, David.
I don't get all that business about Obama's birth certificate. Are they claiming he is the spawn of aliens? Hawaii is a smallish place. Surely everyone knew his family. I don't get it?
Ah, maybe they are setting him up as the antichrist. Would the antichrist be the result of an unimmaculate conception?
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No 64 eightypercent
Office of Management
and Budget
All we need is some accountability here and we can begin setting the ship of state back on course. I'd also give the GAO a 10 fold increase in budget and give them clout.
We don't need to increase taxes, just clean up the waste and the corruption. That would save possibly $100 plus billions a year.
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Just checked the betting odds. No change, even though the market went up today and is likely to rise again tomorrow (Europe and the East are up). Maybe Obama has too much momentum to deflect.
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I mean no offence, but we are talking about a country who elected Bush not once but twice.
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Another point I'd like to mention.
I give zero praise to both McCain and Obama for running with this bail out crap, there has to be another solution. Already we have a clear idea of the character of the next President. "Join me for change", what change!!
Have you not all asked yourself that suddenly the governments have telephone numbers of money to bail out these greedy, "soul" less banks? but they are not capable of bailing out Africa or real poverty.
Tried of Politics ..... roll on the election, let's move on with our lives and start sprending more love .
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# 60 Malcolm - thanks for reminding us about the American Eagle badges - says it all really, doesn't it.
But I was hoping for something a bit racier for Sam.
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As others have pointed out, whoever wins will inherit huge financial challenges. Perhaps we see here the only good thing about the current emergency. For at least a while, the USA will simply not be able to afford any more military adventures.
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"7. At 03:06am on 14 Oct 2008, OldSouth wrote:
The prospect of Obama+Pelosi+Reid, with Barney Frank circling around them.
Supreme Court Justices of Obama's choosing, with no recourse to oppose them.
Ditto for Federal judges, appointed for life.
Perhaps Hillary Herself, (or Bill!!) on the high court, for life. No requirement in the Constitution that any Federal judge have a law license.
The list goes on and on...is this what we really want?
The economy is really scary right now, but is this group of faces the real answer?
Aren't we more than a large economy?"
Well that is the consitution old son and if you do not like it better live somewhere else.
But please do not retend do be an American patriot or democrat if you cannot swallow the country's political system.
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# 71
Is valid and a reasonable cause for a nightmare.
__________________________-
Sarkozy is riding high as a result of getting Europe together on an economic support plan.
Can someone suggest to him that
Strassbourg , when ready, be offered as an alternative site for UN and other
international activities?
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The point made by scamis (see point 6) is perhaps the most meaningful. For all the stock market talk and the change in trend, they are at a relatively abstract level from day-to-day lived and experienced America.
159,000 jobs were lost last month and it's still going to be tight for street street (as opposed to Main and Wall) America for some time to come. They are more than slogans, does America want 'more of the same', or does it want capitalism working for the people, rather than the other way about?
It's in there with the big questions for the rest of the century.
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Your point 1 should be "The ECONOMY begins to recover."
If its just the markets that recover, then that wont change anything becasue when people wake up and go and buy their food and pay their bills they'll still be suffering. In the short term a market recovery means speculators have started cashing in on their bets, thats all.
Problem for McCain is that the economy absolutely wont recover in 20 days.
Hard luck mate! Time to go into retirement and send that doll back to the cold. If theres one positive thing this economic downturn will hopefully do is that it will get the republicans and all their viscious lobby out of power.
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Regarding the American Eagle lapel pins that are made in China – my favourite take in that theme is this one where it seems that “Free Tibet” flags were being made at a (now closed down) factory in China.
You’re all doing very well !!
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67 allmymarbles
I'm sorry I must have expressed myself badly. What I meant was that by no longer allowing a borrower to become bankrupt for their credit card debts the administration gave the green light for the banks to lend money wildly.
The issue of usurious interest rates is another issue and indeed should not be allowed.
The other big lending issue which does not seem to have been addressed is the practice where the banks in the US lending on mortgage debt in some cases permitted the persons selling the loans to act as the vetting agent for these loans.
While neither the credit card bankruptcy issue nor the mortgage lending issue were allowed under UK rules the practice of giving any and everyone a credit card and encouraging them to spend to the limit certainly was.
I can't help but notice that this unrestrained credit seems to be the signature of the two countries in the Western world who have had the highest growth rates in the last few years.
It's only since I moved to France and have spent a lot of time in Germany that I realised the huge difference in credit approval practices. In both countries people are encouraged to live within their means.
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#76 Xie_Ming
Strasbourg for the UN no I think not. My choice would be Jerusalem. Put it under UN control move the UN there take it out of the Middle East equation. Who knows may be that would get rid of the freeloaders who currently attend the UN because it's in NY.
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# 80 ~ Timothy
Mortgage Lenders as vetting agents :
That happened a lot in the UK where people were allowed to vouch for their own salary. Of course people vastly exaggerated their income, weren't checked out and ended up in recession doo doo.
What did Mr. Macawber say ?
Whatever - we didn't heed either him or Polonius which is why we are where we are now.
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# 81 ~ Timothy
Or Baghdad ?
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#82 eightypercent
Non disclosure mortgages, yes I know about them, I had one. they were mainly for self employed people and you couldn't get one for more than 70%
What I was talking about was where in the US people were offered 100% mortgages and the persons selling the mortgage also gave the approval. A friend of mine in California was offered one, she's on a medium range fixed income, medical retirement plan and was offered a huge mortgage on a low rate start up. When she protested that she couldn't possibly afford it and that he (the salesman) would never get approval for it he told her he would approve it. Sensibly she turned it down, but many didn't.
It is definitely why we are where we are now, and there's the devil to pay.
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#83 eightypercent
No leave the Iraqis their capital.
What I had in mind was something like the Vatican, a UN city. That way the Christians, Jews and Muslims could all come to visit, pray whatever without beiing in charge. It would be the first time the UN wasn't beholden to another country and will get me in terrible trouble with MagicKirin.
All in all I like it.
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No.81
I love your idea, good thinking batman.
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ref #81
interesting proposal moving into Jerusulem.
Well it might gives the U.N bueracrats a real idea of what is means to face terrorism.
Of course the fact that that many of the countries don't recognize Israel where Jerusulem might pose a bit of a problem.
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Interesting article on CNN about racism and polling:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/13/obama.bradley.effect/index.html#cnnSTCText
Could Obama still lose if people are lying to the pollsters? It would be sad if racism plays a significant role in the results of this election.
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#3 and probably others:
Too true.
Justin, if only the Democrats were actually left wing.
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You'll get a laugh out of the below link. My local politics are republican dominated so it's often a choice between a republican, an unknown, and/or a weirdo. No really, check out who is running for governor in my state:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_gubernatorial_election,_2008
Click on Dell Shanze and scroll down to "notable incidents" This guy is infamous around here for being absolutely insane. Obviously nobody will vote for him, but it's bizarre that he's allowed to run.
#28 - hainsoides to answer your questions:
1 - I admit I've been waffling on the more local candidates as well. There's actually a democrat running for Senate that aligns with my values, so I think I'll be voting for at least 2 democrats this year. Maybe putting some moderate Dems in congress can keep things in check?
2 - Surprisingly yes, in my area at least, I'm acquainted with many lifelong republicans that plan to vote Obama. But then, practically everyone I know is a lifelong republican, so that doesn't indicate a huge to-do. That said, could Utah go to Obama then? Probably not, but I'm voting anyway, if only to cancel out my parents' vote for McCain.
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Ref 11
"If behavior like this is undertaken by Republicans--off with their heads, and rightly so! But undertaken by Democrats...a deafening silence about the indelicate subject of a potential resignation."
Have you forgotten Rep (R) Cunnigham found guilty of taking bribes to buy a mansion in San Diego, yachts and other luxuries, or the Republican Congressmen who while espousing anti-homosecual laws were busy chasing pages or engaged in embarrassing activities in Men rooms"
Corruption is one of the few truly bipartisan "attributes" we can count on at all levels of government and society, and I doubt it will go away regardless of who our leaders are. As for "imagine what would have happened if it had been a Republican" don't forget a certain blue dress...
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I think a lot of people in the US would find comfort in at least a nominal "for the people" representative government. The GOP has become synonymous with money, oil companies, corruption, and now even racism (media noting the all-white, wealthy looking crowds at the RNC). 'Reagonomics trickle down' economic policies have proved a disaster. GO DEMS - take it over and then let a third party in.
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66, Justaline wrote:
He knows how Washington works or in our eyes is not working, may be the only way to make real change is to put a "pit bull" type character in there and let it loose!
_______
For some reason , I don't like the image of a pitbull in a china store...
Besides, a VP Palin , not shielded by a campaign team any more, might find out the other dogs in the kennel are a lot bigger and meaner than the Alaskan variety.
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Message for Guns (with further apologies for dragging your moniker into my musings above)
There is a good new piece in The New Yorker by Ryan Lizza, this time looking at Joe B. Available on-line.
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The markets might be recovering some ground but the public's economic concerns surley go deeper than that.
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# 11. OldSouth
"My eye strayed over the sidebar, under 'Most Read', to see the headline about the $121,000 payment by a Florida Congressman to his mistress. I couldn't resist, I confess./I read the story.../
If behavior like this is undertaken by Republicans--off with their heads, and rightly so! But undertaken by Democrats...a deafening silence about the indelicate subject of a potential resignation."
From a story linked to the same page -
"House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) called on the House Ethics Committee to "immediately and thoroughly" investigate a report by ABC News today that Florida Rep. Tim Mahoney secretly paid his former alleged mistress and campaign staffer to prevent a sexual harassment lawsuit from going forward. "
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#87 MagicKirin
"Of course the fact that that many of the countries don't recognize Israel where Jerusulem might pose a bit of a problem."
Nice try Magic. I think you left out the word 'is' or maybe 'is to be found' after Jerusalem. Us old boys are not to be fooled by this. Jerusalem is not part of Israel, a large chunk of it 'East Jerusalem' was seized by force by the Israelis and the status of Jerusalem as the Israeli capital has never been recognised. Most nations keep their embassies in Tel Aviv. So it would not be a problem for those states who don't recognise Israel.
It could also be a big protective feature for the Jews in the region because I don't think that any Arab ruler, no matter how much of a deranged Jehadist, would throw a nuke next door to the UN H.Q. It would protect the Arabs living under Israeli jurisdiction because, I think, the very unpleasant religious nasties of the Jewish right would have a problem misappropriating more Palestinian land right under the noses of the UN.
It also has a historic precedent inasmuch as it was, of course, run by Arabs, Turks, Franks, and many more for the last 2000 years before finally coming under the control of Israel in 1967 The difference this time would be that it would be run for the benefit of all three religions.
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Is there any chance of coverage of the larger part of North America- Canada? There is a general election there today, but not a single comment or story about it from the North America editor. In fact, it would also be interesting to know why no Canadian banks need to be bailed out- what is different when the border is crossed? It certainly would be more interesting than more stuff on what seems to be a year long PR-fest or extended reality tv show. Is there any debate on concrete policies? Do they exist?
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The only way John McCain can win against Obama is if he changes is allegiance from Republican to independent.
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Justin,
You missed the critical thing McCain has to do, he has to come up with an economic crisis plan.
Obama's plan so far, he says will benefit the middle class and create jobs, suspending home foreclosures by some banks for 90 days, giving firms a $3,000 (£1,735) tax credit for every job they create, allowing people withdraw up to 15% of their pension plans (or $10,000) without tax penalties, and create a federal fund that would lend to city and state governments
McCain has to come up with a proper plan. I think his idea buying up bad mortgages is a bad one. I think that would destroy the free market, aside from tilting the playing field, not only would taxpayers compensate the very financiers who helped get us into this mess in the first place, but if the idea gets formalized as it stands, those very financiers would receive a windfall in the face value of those mortgages while home owners are left to repay taxpayers at lowered market rates. Effectively, a windfall paid to the financiers by the taxpayer.
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# 88 canukqc wrote:
"Interesting article on CNN about racism and polling:/http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/13/obama.bradley.effect/index.html#cnnSTCText/Could Obama still lose if people are lying to the pollsters? It would be sad if racism plays a significant role in the results of this election."
There was however an interesting article on the fivethirtyeight.com site on this issue. I THINK this is the link - I can't access the site at the moment - http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/10/if-bradley-effect-is-gone-what-happened.html
If I remember correctly, the site queries whether the Bradley effect ever existed - I think they claim that Bradley was in fact tieing in the polls rather than being well ahead. It was also a few decades ago, and hopefully things have improved since then.
I'm also fairly sure that the same site looked for evidence of the Bradley Effect in the primaries and didn't find it - ie the votes Obama got tended to be near enough to what the polls predicted.
Just to be clear - no one is claiming that race may not be a factor. They're just querying whether it's a factor that tends to distort the polls significantly.
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Justin, that sounds like a good ressapee for McCain (though of course I hope it doesn't work!) As regards the nation being run by Democrats, I'm sorry, but its been run (if that word aply applies) by Republicans for too long. Its now the Democrats turn!!
And regarding your last entry, do think that nonreligious people are stepping in to sooth feelings as well? Or is it just strictly religious people? How about people who's religious afiliation you're not sure of, if they have one at all? I just find it a bit offensive that you think that only religious people can, and do, try to calm others down when tempers get too heated in a campaign.
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Watching the race from a UK perspective, I'm surprised that the gap is only ten points, since the choice seems so stark.
Obama is youthful, energetic and offers change and hope; he is ably backed up by the experience of Biden. McCain, though a decent man, is elderly, tired and offers more of the same; with each day that passes, Palin looks more of a liability.
To be sure, Al Gore looked by far the best candidate in 2000 and didn't win; but the experience of eight years of Bush will surely count strongly against McCain. Let's just hope that 2008 is different, and that Obama's message of change and optimism carries the day.
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Justin wrote
"OK - you don't like me much, but do you seriously want the nation to be run, unchecked, by Obama and his left-wing pals?"
# 14 David_Cunard wrote
"It is unbecoming for Justin to use such language in his effort to balance his former pro-Obama opinions; this is not 'straight talk', it is rabble rousing of the worst kind and he should be ashamed."
I didn't read this as Mr Webb expressing his own opinion. I read it as his saying what McCain COULD say, which might make an impact.
Which is surely completely different from JW saying he agrees with it? And therefore hardly 'rabble rousing of the worst kind' etc.
[NB I did previously point out that Justin has been repeatedly accused of bias in favour of Clinton, Obama or McCain. I think this is the first time I've seen him accused of bias in favour of Obama AND McCain!)
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# 97
There would also be the problem of access and of Israeli blockades, plus, Jerusalem is too small and will have water shortages.
It COULD be the location for the UN Human
Organization, however.
Aman, Jordan, is also a propsect (however, the Israeli planners have this in mind for the Palestinians- after the King is done away with).
Middle East funding could probably be had for a location in the Arab Gulf, but it would be better if located in Scandanavia.
With Sarskozy, a quick start could be made with Strassbourg (and Montreal would be happy to receive some).
As to the Organization of American States- why not Venezuela or Brazil?
No matter where, it is time for international leadership to clear out of the USA.
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# 88 and #101
An interesting article on race from the Guardian - http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/oct/14/uselections2000-barackobama.
One extract - "Scott Keeter, of the Washington-based Pew Research Centre for the People and the Press, which conducts regular surveys on cultural attitudes, said: "I would not say that the [Bradley] effect is gone completely, but I think it will be substantially smaller than in the past, if it appears at all. [But] I think it's prudent to acknowledge that we are at least partially in uncharted waters ... this is our first general election with an African-American nominee.""
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THREE NOT SO GOOD ARGUMENTS!
1. The economy is NOT recovering...the stock market recovered somewhat yesterday and hopefully today too!
2. After seeing Obama debate in over 25 televised ones...it is difficult to contemplate how an ageing grumpy old man can have a "good debate" when he is down.
3. A divided capitol and White house has not produced for the American people. Democrats will now be totally accountable for the policies and this might actually be a prospect that many people are looking forward to.
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#106
correct link
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
I’ve come across a biblical reference that seems apt with respect to the election given Sarah Palin’s winks during the debate and her interview performances.
Proverbs 10:10 says “The one who winks his eye causes trouble, and the one who speaks foolishness will come to ruin.”
You’re all doing very well !!
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I think the thing we can tell at this point is the difference of temperment, and I think Obama's is much more likely to produce a good presidency.
As to either of their policies when they take office: Who knows? Did anyone have a clue that fiscal conservative FDR would turn socialist, that Nixon would go to Peking and Moscow, that Carter would lie, that Reagan would run up record deficits, that Bush would be an arch-interventionist?
Also, the poll I follow has the candidates almost twice as close (Obama up 5).
What we need, above all, is the cool intelligence that's able to execute grand strategy in foreign policy, and make simple, virtuous choices domestically.
The Bush administration is reminiscient of Kaiser Wilhelm in its foreign policy, and the Romans post-Carthage domestically: a total lack of intellectual rigor, common sense and moral discipline. Maybe this is what happens to empires after they defeat their big rival (the USSR, in the US case; France in Germany's).
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33. At 05:57am on 14 Oct 2008, gunsandreligion wrote:
Obama should get in as a Democrat, and
then switch parties, just to knock everybody
off balance and clean the idiots out of both
parties.
Better yet, win now, save the country and Western Civilization,
and in 4 years establish a new party, demolishing
what is left of the Democrats and Republicans.
-------------------------------------
now thats the spirit
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"you have all been brainwashed by the liberal media and liberal television "
Whereas, for you, nobletruthteller, a light rinse was more than sufficient.
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Hello folks,
just for your information, I keeping posting messages on your site but for some reason they do not get posted. This leads me to believe that the BBC does not accept thoughts that reveal the truht about the news agency, mainly that the BBC is a biased liberal nutbar news agency promoting lies and fiction.
I find this quite disturbing that an agency that claims to be "tolerant" cannot find the decency to post my comments. I can only conclude (as I have always imagined) that the bbc is not as "tolerant as they profess to be. I fact, if you write in with facts and truth, they are completely ignored and the "biased liberal moderator" on the other end will not bother to post your comments.
Let the truth be known.
God Bless,
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#109 nobletruthteller
"I have to make this my last thought because I do have to run off to work, or I could probably write for a year or two however, I will not waste my time."
So you think that everybody over here is a bum who does no work and spends all his time here? I work too, and watch your language. Since you say that you are a canadian-italian, I don't see why you should be so upset about what people from other countries think of the election.
"I have not come across one comment that actually compliments the republican candidates"
Guess you'll need to be here more often, or you're probably too busy (Yes, you have work). People like MAII, JohnAAA (what happened to him?) etc are pro-republicans.
"all I read are ignorant dumbass comments from people who probably have absolutely no idea what is going on"
You have a better idea, We'd like to hear it. Just leave the dumbass stuff out of it.
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Obama leads in 3 of 4 key Bush counties
Poll results
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#25 andresrix:
Obama IS the loony left ! What do you mean, keep them at bay?...
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McCain and, any "news" networks of like inclination, who think that there are THREE
weeks left to put the GOP over the top
might want to consider the "bandwagon effect"
Anytime within three weeks of an election the bandwagon-jump-on can occur.
And voters that jump on are not only those supporters of the leader of the moment but
Independents, fence sitters and casual supporters of the now-trailing second place nominee who are influenced by the posistioning of their man now placing second and realizing that party is over and will cast their vote for the TOP DOG.
So my guess is this IS the week.
CBS's Bob Shieffer will be the debate host.
This is merely my opinion, but a strong one
from Shieffer hosting the 'o2 debate between Kerry and Bush,,,
This was at a time when George Bush was
"talking to the man upstairs" and was considered somewhat special for it.
So what does Shieffer ask, no matter that
religion is supposed to have nothing to do
with our government, he asks Mr. Bush:,,,
"And how does religion figure into your life?",,,I dont have Bush's reply because I knew right there the lay of the land at
CBS and I switched off th TV
So let's see if Bob Shieffer is now proud enough of his part in giving us George Bush as president to try and give us the war criminal's apprentice as our president
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109 "NobleTruthTeller" change your moniker to "arrogant_opiononator". Truth by definition is based upon verifiable facts and measurement. Your whole rant is judgmental and codescending, based upon your blinkered view of the world.
It is difficult, in a complex world, where massive amounts of information are readily available, to strike a balance between facts, perspective and clarity. FOX news makes no bones about the fact that they are exceedingly right of center. Few if any MSM are liberal, (with crucial news items) they are a reflection of their owners, who invariably are very conservative.
btw The USA spends it life nosing into other country's problems. If they want to sell democracy, get it right at home first. An accurate and accountable election process that can be 100% verified is required so that neither Democrats nor Republicans benefit. A level playing field is the phrase believe.
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109. At 2:47pm on 14 Oct 2008, nobletruthteller wrote:
Thought I would try and post this again, I think the BBC moderators and producers do not like to hear the truth. I know the truth hurts but it has to be told. So please post my comment. You are a tolerant news agency right??? Right???
For a nation who is on the verge of being overrun by arab terrorist's themselves, you sure have become very tolerant in your liberal luntic views."
But not as lunatic as claiming that the UK is about to be overun by "arab Terrorists".
Maybe you should read something besides IDF press releases. The UK has not in fact been attackjed by "arabs" at all.
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A number of people could suggest to nobletruthteller the probable technical reasons why his posts don't appear.
Let's not bother.
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26. At 04:43am on 14 Oct 2008, DougTexan wrote:
7. OldSouth
I don't see anyway to stop the Obama Express. Even if it was possible, I'm not so sure it would be the right thing to do.
I just have to think McCain*Palin and,.. I scratch my beard and wonder,.. The honorable,but past hisx prime soldier and the squeeky one, republican I am, but that is not my idea of a strong conservative, I believe in it ticket.
Even myself, I have thrown ever barrier in the way of Obama, to vote my life long party line, I can't find the flaw in Obama-Biden. I can in McCain*Palin. The find, the flaw would have to be so compelling, bad. and so awful for me to now vote McCain that,.. and, the lord as my witness, I've looked. It isn't there.
So I'll vote Republican for my House and Senate, and locally.
---------------------------------------------------
Maybe I judged you too harshly.
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Justin-
The Democratic machine, unchecked. Indeed.
Forget the Socialism chants - too emotive to make the point. Call it Economic Redistribution. A 55% tax rate for those who already carry the economy? Of course the Obomination is wild about this - I would register to vote 70 times, too. The point is that you cannot sustain jobs and business viability by tax-bombing the financial engine that turns the wheels. This may be great on the campaign trial, but wicked-bad for small businesses trying to recover. And a Democratic-dominated congress, to boot.
We obviously do not need more Bush economics. However, the spectre of a Pelosi-Reid-Obama economic future is astounding. McCain represents the middle ground. Please don't drone on about "voting with Bush too often". McCain has been a fly in the Republican ointment for decades. He's too much like Bush? - Are you kidding? He's been reviled by conservatives for so long, that he is now caught in the middle, where reasonable answers are most likely to be found.
The Harvard scholar's track record does not provide much guidance. It's much easier to pillory someone who's stood by his guns for 25 yrs.
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81. At 11:23am on 14 Oct 2008, T1m0thy wrote:
#76 Xie_Ming
Strasbourg for the UN no I think not. My choice would be Jerusalem. Put it under UN control move the UN there take it out of the Middle East equation. Who knows may be that would get rid of the freeloaders who currently attend the UN because it's in NY. "
Personally I would bribe the inhabitants to move, then bulldoze the place to the ground and mine it to prevent anyone going there.
The religions have each showed they cannot live in peace with this place - so get rid of it.
Its pretty much dying any way as right wing israeli fanatics drive out secular israelis, palestinians etc.
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This election has the feel of Britain in April 1997. Everyone knew what was going to happen in a few weeks time, but couldn't quite bring themselves to believe it.
Unless there is a major scandal or a terrorist attack on the mainland, Obama will be President.
Regarding the split ticket argument, I have met some Independents and moderate Repiblicans who want a Democrat in the White House but a GOP Senate, so they voted for Obama but Republican for the rest of the candidates.
Don't forget that early voting has been going on for some time. Come election day, perhaps about half the country would have already voted, so McCain is running out of time by the hour!
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what is your question?
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87 magherkin
Well it might gives the U.N bueracrats a real idea of what is means to face terrorism.
especially the american ones
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# 109 and 114 ~ Noble etc.
I expect you've gone off to work now as you promised but as one of your "UK knobs" may I suggest that if you don't like this site, you don't come to it. Simple really.
Then the rest of us can get on with our discussions.
# 106 ~ DublinJohn
I posted about the Brady effect yesterday. The actual event happened way back in 1982 so hopefully people have progressed a bit since then. Michelle talked about it in one of her TV interviews last Wednesday and said the same. I am sure that the Obama campaign factored it in when they were doing their planning.
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14 dc tell him how it is.
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When I read this, I asked my inner self if Justin is being mean, tormenting conservatives with false hope like this.
My inner self said, "Why, yes he is. Are you hoping he does more of it?"
To which I replied, "Funny you should ask. I think I am."
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Or something big happens. Domestic terrorism or major foreign policy threats would promise to swing things back the other way, and may even give the excuse he needs to have Palin step down as 'the game has changed'. Out of McCain's hands, though.
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109. nobletruthteller
* Are you Toronto chapter then?
*If yes, abseiled down the CN tower yet?
* Favourite pizza?
* Can we have your x10 point plan for solving the rubbish crisis in Naples please?
thanks.......
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#115 Paul
Hi Paul,
just want to apologize for the tone of my previous message. I did not mean to offend anyone. I keep telling myself to not write out of frustration it usually does not help the situation.
"Guess you'll need to be here more often, or you're probably too busy (Yes, you have work). People like MAII, JohnAAA (what happened to him?) etc are pro-republicans."
Remember, I am not against pro-republicans I am with you.
My quote "I have not come across one comment that actually compliments the republican candidates" should probably have been written, "the majority of comments that I have read so far have been very negative toward the republicans." And I mean, the majority.
I will try and be more careful with my selection of words.
Regards,
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I very rarely say anything nice about america and I still might not BUT.
(first let me say this is not a defence of why america voted for bush the second time)(the first was dumb enough)
Everyone in europe and many here seem to forget that in 2004 and 2006 Bush and the GOP ran on more than just WAr and security.
They ran on a platform of "stop Gay people getting married"
this was a huge grass roots GOP campaign.
It seems this year they have stayed away from this .
Thanks GOP.;)
(though I suspect that is because they have already thrown the courts their way)
Really this time everyone decided not to force this issue at this time.
For once a smart move.
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Driving during the festival is considered "offensive by religious Jews, and a group of them stoned the car."
Magherkin.
who's the terrorist here?
Riots ensued
"
Tawfik Jamal was remanded in custody on Monday for three days for reckless endangerment, speeding and " harming religious sensitivities", police said."
Wow justice Israeli style.
Quotes from the bbc, my parenthesis on the phrase "harming religious sensitivities"
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An interesting point from early on in the comments and perhaps one of our Amercian legal experts can enlighten me.
IF Obama presidency + control of both houses,
COULD he actually appoint either Clinton to the Supreme Court ? Can't see a problem with Hil but Is there anything in the Constitution or constitutional law that prevents appointment of a past president, given that said past president has appropriate legal qualifications.
Just as equally while I'm at it, one that has been bugging me for a while. Could a two-term president, e.g. Bill Clinton go back on the ticket as VP. I know that the 22nd (?) amendment to the Constitution prevents "seeking election to a third term" but is there any mention of a past president seeking election as VP and then serving an unexpired term of his running mate ?
Just a few thoughts in either event, an Obama Win or an Obama Loss.
Regards to all,
Chiefy
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We've had divided government for awhile, and I think we've had quite enough of it. I just heard economist James K. Galbraith on the radio this morning (son of John Kenneth Galbraith) comparing our current situation to that of 1932. He called for burying the bankrupt policies of Phil Gramm and friends as we did those of his antecedents of the 1920s and early 1930s. In 1932, the Democrats and the New Deal buried the Republicans for twenty years. We ought to bury them again for thirty years or more.
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# 125 Cyril
YES !
The polls are certainly beginning to have a solid feel about them. And remember, Blair and his team went on working flat out right up until the election in '97, never really believing themselves that they were going to do it - although the polls told them they were safe and sound.
The feeling is just the same - even down to the name calling by a desperate right wing, and dear old John Major actually had a lot more to offer than John McCain does.
When the public decide on a change, they are usually pretty strong-minded about it.
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Limey (#42), I completely agree with you but people come here for the comments of others, not Mr. Webb. Many USonians (or Americans) remember Alistair Cooke fondly for his erudite interpretation of British Society for our benefit. I have read some of his "letters from America" and it seems he was equally adept at doing the reverse. Is there no one who can take his place?
I do think that Jon Kelly is doing a fine job with his reports.
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Cotton Hill for president.
NOT
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JFK wasn't irish but irish-american; as Obama is african-american.
folks talking about"arab"/"arab-american" seem to have things slightly mixed up.
There's a difference between arab (as in a people) and muslim/moslem (as in a religion/faith).
Even IF that mattered...
He is an american.
Kenya is a nation in black Africa. So Obama has a parent from Kenya - said parent was agnostic.
Either way, it's fiddlesticks.
Also, you can't have it both ways - if you keep on about Rev. Wright, that was a church not a mosque - i.e., he's a Christian.
Not that this should matter in a nation that avows separation of church and State.
In this day and age, the religion thing looks a bit ludicrous. Like something out of Miller's "crucible"...
Still, there is more to the Bible than Revelations and the OT.
And even for moslems, Jesus was a prophet. People praying for McCain victory because their god is bigger(?) just shows...
Again, you guys are into separation of church and State, so it shouldn't matter what one does in the bedroom or in whatever place of worship you profess...
The hate seems intense though for christians who should "love their enemies", "do unto others...", be their "brother's keeper"...but the LOVE bit of religion's always the first bit to go out any window...
"liberal" tag: as liberal as Ted Kennedy? FDR? how liberal?
"socialism" tag: the Rep. senator on about "fiscal socialism" - again, people need to do their research about what socialism is/was...whether in terms of Marx, its coinage from french, or examples such as co-operative movements, kibbutz, etc...
"communism" tag: even the russians agree that one's finished
Even in your "checks and balance" system, is some dictator suddenly going to be able to just do anything he/she likes?
What does the "black liberation" tag mean? a Black Panther on every street corner? Come up with credible arguments, or it just sounds silly.
A debate on US election: whether Europe is good/better/worse is a red herring - this debate is about the US election.
Europe: it's a big, diverse place. No one's perfect (not even US of A) but many parts of Europe (democracies - not necessarily the exact same template as yours) have social democracies.
Some societies invest in a universal healthcare system, etc.
No one's perfect - not "old Europe" (to quote Rumsfeld) or the emerging ones, but one couldn't call them socialist...that tag is passe...even UK's New Labour couldn't be called socialist...the Tories (party of Thatcher) is more right - or right-of-centre...Lib Dems (no chance of being in) are just that - social democrats.
Democracy: it is a concept from circa 5th c BC or so - the origin of the word is greek; ancient Athens was a model...possibly
:-)
You can't fit things in one nation into your way of thinking. We are different and models don't necessarily transplant/apply.
---------
Paulson follows G Brown's line re the banks
----------------
"drill, baby, drill" - geology/science/evolution explains much of what's down there but the same creationists who want to drill deny the origins of what they're drilling for?!
----------------------
McCain win would be like a Robert Harris novel! Good luck.
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#109 nobletruthteller
I read this three times to be sure. It's not a wind up he's completely lost the plot.
I will, however address one point out of his deranged ramblings. the reason why I and, I suspect, many other Brits are very interested in this election are very simple. It's not the process, we find it fascinating but archaic, it's the fact that the individual you have elected on the past two occasions has been a total and unmitigated disaster for both your country and the rest of the world. Furthermore Republican "economics" lack of financial controls and general all encompassing incompetence with more than a little hint of corruption have brought world finances to the brink of catastrophe.
I feel that on this occasion we have a right to look very closely, you could say we've paid for that right and in the case of the UK, with the misguided involvement in Iraq, paid in blood both that of our troops and the innocent terror victims in the UK.
I wish you well and pray that this time you get it right.
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"Cotton Lyndal Hill is the father of Hank , a misogynist ex-military man with potential homicidal tendencies. He is considered a World War II hero, and he had his shins blown off by the Japanese while he was in combat. Cotton is excessively proud of his military achievements, and has the tendency to exaggerate and exploit his experiences. He always berates his son and looks down on women, and he never calls Peggy by her first name. He had an affair with a Japanese nurse during the war, and they produced a son named Junichiro. Cotton again fathered a child, his third one, even when he is already 75-years old. " from
http://www.buddytv.com
---------------------------------------------
sound like anyone
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The "left/right" "liberal/conservative" and all other "this side/that side" BS analysis of US politics is erroneous - this is a tool of divisive manipulators used to acquire votes by means of fear of "the other". Mostly meant for the extremist loonies, but appears to have an effect on these most admirable and intellectual BBC posters as well.
Obama and McCain both advertised to the voters early on that they didn't "play" that game...they were to be "non-partisan" and "reach across aisles" to "solve problems" with the best response for "the people". Then McCain bailed, chose "far right (falling off the edge)" Palin, and started spouting Rovian nonsense...so he only has the loonies 'left' in his camp.
As to taxes, how the *&%( else are you going to pay for the war and the bailout. The imbalance of the distribution of wealth in the US has been of concern to enconomists and academics for years so the wealthy are going to have to take a hit - it would be "patriotic" of them.
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talk of freeloaders and the UN? mmm
Remember Ted Turner's help???
http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2000/12/22/203525.shtml
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/international/july-dec00/holbrooke_12-22.html
As for the ISA???
"The United States is the only major maritime power that has not ratified the Convention, with one of the main anti-ratification arguments being a charge that the ISA is flawed or unnecessary."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Seabed_Authority
only when it suits them...Hans Blix where are you?
:-)
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We need health care here. Mc cain don't get it.
1 in 8 people diagnosed with cancer(many never get to see a doc) turn down medical treatment because they cannot afford it , in the United States of America.
New survey released.
yea it's working for us eh Mc Crim.(who got treated)
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133 nobel
good
I thought you a repub.(na don't care) I thought you were still a repub,( thats better)
as for
My quote "I have not come across one comment that actually compliments the republican candidates" should probably have been written, "the majority of comments that I have read so far have been very negative toward the republicans." And I mean, the majority.
--------------------------
Does that mean most people responding do not like them, maybe, but what have they done to gain respect?
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#81- Timothy,
putting jerusalem under UN control seems like a good idea. crossed my mind before as well.
Seeing that no side can agree who owns it then just set it as neutral terittory.
lol but I am one would not want to work in the UN building in J.salem, public officials would be scared to go to a Summit as well. :).
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# 125 Cyril
More memories of 1997 come flooding back.
Do you remember how Tony Blair was accused of being "untried and untested". They even called him Bambi. Sounds familiar doesn't it.
Then there were the "demon eyes" ads which had no impact whatsoever on the electorate but did for the reputation of the Saatchis.
The Tories said that he was going to bleed everyone dry with taxes and the country would go to hell in a handcart ........ until he won the next General Election in 2002 with an equally thumping great majority.
It was only when he got into bed with W that he came unstuck with both the electorate and his party.
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# 123 JRhawk wrote:
"The Harvard scholar's track record does not provide much guidance. It's much easier to pillory someone who's stood by his guns for 25 yrs."
If you mean McCain has been consistent - really? Just from memory, didn't he vote against the Bush tax cuts, but now says he supports them? Didn't he describe the religious right as 'agents of intolerance' - before he got into bed with them? (Metaphorically speaking.) And didn't he say the one essential qualification for a VP was immediate readiness to be POTUS - and then pick Palin?
(And yes , I'm sure you can find such inconsistencies in most political careers, including Obama's. )
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Palin's Troopergate troubles are alive and well in Alaska
Ethics probe expanded
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ref #97
Jerusulem is recognized by both The U.K and the U.S.
As far as protection of the sights, generaly it has been the Palestiians or other Arabs caretakers who have desecerated jewish sights.
But the point is moot, the infastructure can't support the buearacracy even the one John Bolton invisions cut by 2/3rds.
The airport security alone would be a security and logistical mightmare.
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"If what I did caused this, I am ready to sacrifice my neck right here on this table, on lowered gallows, just to return peace and quiet back to the city of Acre, to bring co-existence back to its place," he said
This was an arab Magherkin.
All he did was drive .
the reckless driving was his trying to escape the stones.
People the UN should move to Jerushalom
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because this is new magherkin.
not the same old accusations etc.
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#109 nobletruthteller
Everybody has different opinions, thank goodness! I also think it's very healthy to hear those varying opinions from other countries, thats what makes you a well rounded educated person, take it or leave it, but once it enters your brain, it's there. You don't always have to agree either, but it's the way you present your opinions that will determine how far you advance with them. That is why I believe Obama is ahead.
As far as the feminazi issue, or what ever you called it is rediculous.
Republicans don't like government control, but they want to tell me what I can or can't do with my own body?!
There must be something somewhere inside of you that cares what other citizens of the world think, or you would'nt even take the time to read this blog. As an American, I can honestly say i'm glad i won't have to cancel out your vote on Nov. 4th.
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This comment has been referred to the moderators. Explain.
#133, Noble
Thing is, the Republicans are generally reviled in Europe. Most of us just don't get how a party can become so infiltrated by the extreme Right, or how a (rightly) proud nation such as the United States would ever have voted for Bush and his team.
How could the issues of gay marriage, abortion, religious teaching ever have taken centre stage in an election? Why is is that all US election seem to require candidates to be not only religious, but devout and most definitely Christian?
So no, you'll not hear so many people praising the Republicans. Personally, as soon as anyone defines themselves as a Republican I immediately become suspicious of their levels of tolerance. That's wrong, I know; there are many millions of middle-of-the-road Republicans with whom I'd have very little to quarrel about, politically or otherwise. Then again, I look at their platform for president and I can't see any positives. I struggle to see past the ingrained intolerance, I'm afraid.
I, like many others, am more than happy to debate an issue. But it has to be a proper debate rather than a shouting match. And Sarah Palin seems to exemplify all that is bad about the current Republican party - she's aggressive, ill-mannered, poorly informed, has little desire to engage in debate (rather than hectoring) and most worryingly seems to think that all that comes to pass is the will of her (Christian) god. What, I wonder, does she think of her millions of fellow citizens who are of a different faith, or of none?
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chiefly
maybe the is something to prevent a past president from being a judge but that would not effect hillary. she never made it to being president.
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McCain's recovery plan should focus on the fact that his opponent is a crooked liar who consorts with terrorists and other America haters. His friends at Acorn are busy committing voter registration fraud on his behalf, his other friends include Reverend Wright and Ayres whom he's denied having much of a relationship with and wouldn't distance himself from until it became politicaly damaging not to, and he is completely inexperienced. The strategy should be first the indictment, then the election. Perhaps if enough people think he would have to move the oval office to a federal penetentiary they might be convinced not to vote for him. On the other hand, given the dumbing down of America, they might not care.
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Regarding the Supreme Court Justices debate earlier, the make-up of the court is unlikely to change in the near future anyway, the most likely Justices to retire being Ginsburg and Stevens (who despite being appointed by Ford generally votes liberal), and is probably ideological even at the moment with 4 liberals, 4 conservatives, and Anthony Kennedy providing the swing vote. Plus the current Chief Justice John Roberts was appointed by Bush Jr, and is one of the youngest Chief Justices the US has ever had, so I wouldn't worry about Obama packing the court with liberals unless he gets a second term.
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"Is there anything in the Constitution or constitutional law that prevents appointment of a past president, given that said past president has appropriate legal qualifications."
No. William Howard Taft in fact served on the supreme court after his presidency. It's generally been considered bad form, however, to follow the presidency by any other political office.
The 22nd amendment does not prevent Bill Clinton from running for vice president. It does, however, prevent him from succeeding to the presidency if the president dies. So, legally, it would pass to the speaker of the house. In practice, it would be considered unacceptable for a number of reasons to have a two-term president serve as vice president. He could serve as speaker of the house, but it does not seem remotely possible that a two-term president would wish to do all the work needed to qualify for that office.
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#59
Malcolm,
A flattering idea but one I would have to exclude myself from.
In the first case I am a business person, I would be terrible in government.
In the second it would be neither fair to Michelle or myself to place us in close proximity. I prefer to admire from afar.
In the words of the Boss (but i think he was quoting someone else) 'If nominated I will not run. If elected I will not serve'.
Sad Sam
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Chiefy1724 (#136), the VP question is a sticky one. The twelfth amendment requires that the VP be constitutionally eligible to the office of President. The twenty-second amendment prohibits the "election" of a person to a third term as President, but does not discuss the Vice Presidency or the possibility of succession. I don't expect this possible loophole ever to be tested, however.
I don't expect a Supreme Court appointment for either Clinton, although it is certainly permissable. Both have taught constitutional law (as has Obama), but this is not a particularly strong qualification. They are politicians, not legal scholars, and there are many people better qualified. Political appointments to the Supreme Court tend to be very controversial and I don't expect Obama to go for it.
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On second guess, it seems the question of whether a two-term president could run as vice-president is debatable. In any case, it ain't gonna happen.
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@Chiefy 1724 (136), Obama could only appoint a Justice if one of the current 9 either resigned, retired, got impeached (has never happened) or died. This means you can never predict when a Justice will be replaced. I think only Jimmy Carter has ever served a full term and not been able to appoint a Justice.
As far as Obama appointing either Hilary or Bill Clinton it certainly could happen, although would be unlikely. William Taft was the President from 1909-1913, and went on to become the Chief Justice from 1921 until his death in 1930, so there is a precident. As far as Bill's concerned a certain 'scandal' would probably rule him out. Hilary's another matter, it's possible, but she hasn't been a lawyer for so long I doubt she'd get confirmed, and she is somewhat of a controversial figure to begin with anyway...
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re # 136
President Taft (Republican) was subsequently appointed as Chief Justice of the Supreme Court by President HArding (also a Republican) but he also had credible legal qualifications.
Obama could appoint either (both?) Clinton's after all they are qualified lawyers but they would still need to get confirmed by the Senate and would need 60(?) votes to get confirmed.
So its possible but I'd say unlikely
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wow BBC congratulations.
I found out today that my address I entered turned into a hot link automatically.
well done.
and thank you. now off to find some better links.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3-B7bLbzOM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwRnOHsRS48&feature=related
and just to prove I'm not the only one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEXaXr5W5LY
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ref #136
No problem with the Supreme Court, in fact I believe there was a former President in the 1800's who did.
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#8 dominickvilla
You have got to be joking! Have you ever witnessed the cut and thrust of British parliamentary debate? I think not. None of them would last a nano-second in the House of Commons. Unlike the BEST country in the world with the BEST education system (and the BEST everything else) the english language is taught in British schools: sentence structure, syntax, not to mention vocabulary, devoid of the ubiquitous "like" "you know" "whatever" etc. This training allows MPs to organize their thoughts and express them in a manner that communicates their meaning, unlike the jumbled diatribes bereft of sense as spouted by the individuals you mention.
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Justin, your blog just cracks me up everytime I read it. You try so desperately to invent reasons why John McCain might make up the chasm of ground he's conceding to Obama in the polls at the moment... but at the end of the day you're just trying too hard, buddy. It's all over. McCain is going to get beaten out of sight. I know that makes your job considerably more dull, but hey, landslides do happen! In fact, 6 of the last 10 presidential elections have been a landslide...
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ref #153
Read your history this was before 67 when they took graves stones from an ancient jewish cemetary for a latrine.
The Temple Mount area is sacred to all three monothesiastic religions, yet Sharon was criticized for going there.
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80%, thanks for dragging me into things. All I can
say is that I won't be dressing up like a moose for
Halloween if Palin is in town at the time.
I have read through about half of the article you
recommended about Obama, and have not gotten
to the one on Biden yet. What I have read so far
confirms my suspicions that Illinois politics is as
convoluted as any medium-size European country.
For a state with only 12 million people, there are
probably more political backstabbings per capita there
than anywhere else in the world except for
Washington, DC.
What impresses me so far about Obama is that
politics for him is a craft. It's a game that he plays
using mathematics. I don't think that we've ever
had a candidate for the presidency with a mind-set
quite like this. Every other politician that I can
recall has a continuity of beliefs throughout their
career, and while they may have to compromise
with others to get bills passed, they have always
favored those core beliefs.
Obama is different. He's a political leaper. He figures
out where he wants to go, and puts together a
package of positions to get there. If he has to
dump a bunch of supporters from his last stop,
then so be it.
All of this makes him exceptionally difficult to
understand. He is shrewdly able to quickly size
up the core beliefs of a constituency, and to
put together a set of positions to appeal to those
beliefs.
McCain has, in previous campaigns, been
characterized as a maverick, able to take on the
establishment. However, he is apparently unable
to take on his own party now, as evidenced by
his VP pick.
So, one of the major points in Obama's favor for
me is that even if I supposed that I understood what
McCain stood for, he doesn't appear to be running
even his own campaign. How, then, would he
run the country?
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# 159 ~ Funboy Marcus
See you've been at it again. Keeping all the BBC moderators busy again, I see.
And that was a very nasty swipe you took at Paul Krugman, Nobel Prize Winner. What on earth would you know about it anyway ?
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#152 MagicKirin wrote:
"Palestiians or other Arabs caretakers who have desecerated jewish sights."
They've been blinding the Jews ???
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#159
It's the kind of uneducated rant spouted by bigots like you that has supported the current administration during the last eight years. May I remind you that your candidate of choice recently took the microphone from a woman publicly expressing a similar viewpoint to yours and chided her for her racist, sectarian pontification. I don't hail McCain for doing that, but at least it raised him out of the paleolithic mud a fraction. You do your candidate no good by grandstanding your rancor, but you do persuade those who are still on the fence in this election to cast their lot with the only man equipped to lead the US out of this mess - Obama.
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Re: the strange fixation on creating an ACORN scandal: Firstly what possible motive could ACORN have to submit fake voter registration forms?-none What benefit would this be to ACORN or Obama?-none. You have to show ID to vote so it would accomplish nothing but to discredit ACORN. So it is either caused by young people too lazy to try to meet a quota (sad but not too evil), or, someone who desires to discredit ACORN (sad and very evil....).
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This comment has been referred to the moderators. Explain.
Re Israel and MagicKirin
You still don't get it do you. The fact that the ancestors of a group of people are claimed to have lived in a place 2000 years ago is not in my eyes, or I think in the eyes of most people, good grounds for granting them title to that place now. The fact that they have seized the place by force of arms and are hanging on to their ill gotten gains by force of arms is no longer considered to prove title. We are in the 21st century not the 18th.
The other point being that bending over backwards to aid and abet this has left the US and more recently the UK as targets of Arab/Muslim ire. I, for one do not want the lives of my children and grandchildren put in jeopardy in order to protect a group of people that I regard as misguided at best and thieves a worst.
I certainly don't regard them as the heroic people portrayed in 'Exodus' which was after all made by Metro Goldwyn Meyer.
I hope that makes it clear n'est pas
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#157 endorfin
It does my heart good to read contributions such as yours. As far as the issues you refer to taking center stage, remember the US was initially populated by Puritans - people with very strict and narrow religious points of view who called for a greater commitment to Jesus Christ. You'll have seen many contributions to this site that espouse this doctrine. Sufficient to say that in the American heartland, far from the influence of more enlightened folks, this point of view is still embraced. It's the result of poor education, lack of exposure to people with different outlooks, ways of life, and cultures. Tolerance is not a virtue that many Republicans aspire to. However the result of eight years of right wing Republican policies is now only too clear, not only to many folks in the US but also in Europe and beyond. Obama must win this contest, not only for the future of the US, but for a real chance at peace and prosperity for the rest of the world.
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...polarbear (#166), a simple majority in the Senate is required to confirm an appointment, unless the opponents filibuster. In that case, 60 votes are required to close debate.
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#1. The markets begin to change. There are numerous problems with this concept.
A-This market is not in a light storm but in a sea of uncertainty and just going up a few hundreds points does not make it a recovery. This is typical of uncertainty: large swings in the indices.
B-Even if the markets are looking okay, it does not follow that they are okay.
C-With shoes dropping left and rigth:mortgages, banks, credit crunches, people are more uncertain than ever. We are all now just waiting for the other shoe to fall.
D- The snowball effect of the crisis is not finished yet. People are being laid off, companies are holding on spending, house prices are not yet recuperating.
#2 This is a possibility, but more that Obama could screw up. But history shows McCain loosing it and if he starts attacking, Obama can always bring up Palin and her right wing Pals in Alaska who think America is odious, or the reverend who practices voodoo and laid hands on her.
#3 And why is this a problem? The nation did have for two terms a Republican congress and a republican president. Why should Americans wake up to this?
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And one more thing. Even conservative intellectuals such as George Will find McCain offensive. Even some Republican congressmen were complaining about the tone of McCain's campaign. I doubt that McCain can recover from himself.
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ref #157
When visting Western Europe before 9/11. The Bush hatread was already there.
Part of it had to do with the meaningless fact he was from Texas. they had their stereotypes.
What the people I spoke to seem to resent were: (these were primarily people in urban areas)
1. He was not as deferential(their words) to Europe as Bill Clinton
2. He wore his religion on his sleeve
3. His stances on arbortion
So the republican hatread Bush and it will be there after Obama is elected.
I think part of it could be they associated the U.S republican party with the French La Pen which is the equivilent of associng the Democrats with Greens of Germany
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First thing can the BBC please do something about th moderation delays? If you can't keep up then I suggest you stop premoderating messages for registered users after they've posted a few times, its what you do on 606 after all.
Now on to the politics, anyone else notice that as soon as Bush announced his rescue plan, essentially the same as the one the UK and EU announced yesterday, the Dow dropped? I mean Brown, Sarkozy etal. make their announcement yesterday and the Dow goes up, Bush speaks it goes down. Perhaps McCain should just ask him to shut up until after election day?
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This has been one of the better blogs on here, so far.
A little less rabid rubbish than usual, not so many morons who can only write in capital letters (with green crayon probably) and some of the usual ping-pong and repartee.
I think I even read through, followed and half-got one of MarkusDownus's. In fact I do believe I did agree with a smidgeon so anything's possible. And Majic(Japanese beer) almost came over all conciliatory. Once. For a nanosecond, then it wal all "shoot the arabs" again.
But some things are not meant to change ..... surely the old man can't can he? With a 90% approval in Europe why is Obama not the shoo in we all think he should be? Especially with the poison dwarf against him.
As before I'm still in the UK and find my views of things distorted by the media available to us. I try my best, quite often have a chortle at "faux" news, switch between the others of an evening. And so as an independent observer (as in uninvolved rather than uninterested) can I make the following points:
Both candidates have obvious flaws. But in some ways both are more appealing than what we have here. I can't imagine any politician here holding themselves up for enquiry, ridicule and damnation for anyhting like as long as they have to suffer in the US. (Why don't they concatenate the elections now we've got these new fangled wireless telegrahy things and ...wow ...post!)
Why is there so much detail on the Internet about both of them when you supposedly have a free press and no (less?) libel laws? Surely lies, smears and innuendo would be equally spread?
Has either party issued a manifesto or do they just make it up as they go along? Anything that the electors can hold them to account for? or is it different policies for different stadia and all that - abolish tax on bullets in Tennessee, no pollution controls in Alaska, hug a tree in Oregon.
Any why are so many Republicans that make it onto my screen so reactionary and unappealing????????
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Have just posted at 8.10pm and meant to end by saying "2 hours to moderate so far, the election will be over before this gets read".
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#169 newbriton
You obviously have never heard the incoherent ramblings of some back-benchers (of all parties)!
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Post 12# obousfield wrote:
Americans are FINALLY realising that John McCain is part of the current economic problem. He's been serving in the US Senate for 25 years, and he and his (Republican) party are the chief authors of the deregulation that led to the recent debacle. How could the Democrats possibly make things worse?
WRONG, Clinton signed into law the biggest deregulation aided by most democrats, schumer etc etc, the current situation is as much a democrat mess as a Republican one, Dems have just as much blame, so you are wong the democrats could make it worse.
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#159
Marcus,
Been to any good rallys lately?
Inquisitive Sam
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newbriton (#169), I'm pretty sure DV was being sarcastic. You might add to your list that the British wit is more highly developed than the American, sarcasm being one of its lesser forms.
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Here's what can give McCain/Palin the election on a silver platter:
Terrorists can decide the pair of them are as good for recruiting and fundraising as Bush has been and cause another ruckus to scare a gullible and easily stampeded group of undecided voters. It worked in the last election.
P.S. - Apparently it's too much to hope that Palin supporters will understand how dangerous her hubby's affiliation with the secessionist Alaskan Independence Party is. Or to question why he had/has so much influence in the governor's office since he's only a spouse and not an elected official. Should this man be anywhere NEAR the Oval office?
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#159
Marcus, I appreciate that you have every right to your point of view, but do you realise just how deranged you sound?
These 'terrorists' you refer to are, well, just the one person. Mr Ayers, no? And this issue has been done to death in any case. Not even the Republicans are using this one any more because the public have seen the issue, reflected on it, and decided it doesn't merit consideration. So carry on repeating this spurious comment if you wish - it'll actually damage your own side!
Re your somewhat confusing assertion that Obama's a criminal who will have to serve from behind bars, perhaps you can refer me to the charges he's facing. I'd be fascinated to know how it is that only you have the inside track on the forthcoming indictment.
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171. At 6:56pm on 14 Oct 2008, MagicKirin wrote:
ref #153
Read your history this was before 67 when they took graves stones from an ancient jewish cemetary for a latrine."
Though they did not bulldoze houses down with people in them, like the Israelis do
"The Temple Mount area is sacred to all three monothesiastic religions, yet Sharon was criticized for going there."
A complicit war criminal, according to the Israeli parliament, who stood by as women and children were murdered by fascists.
Sharon would have been in jail in any civilised country.
The Israelis made him a PM
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#125. "Unless there is a major scandal or a terrorist attack on the mainland, Obama will be President."
The former is the more likely - one engineered by the McCain campaign and nigh impossible to refute in the last days before Tuesday fortnight.
"Don't forget that early voting has been going on for some time. Come election day, perhaps about half the country would have already voted."
Half the country? I don't think so - a tenth at the very most I would guess. And amongst eligible voters, some will think it's a slam dunk for Obama and won't bother to vote on the day. On the other hand, the Republican voter will have a great incentive simply because McCain is behind and might, just might be elected if enough people go out and exercise their franchise. I don't think anything can be taken for granted.
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Hey Folks. Not a lot of people know this - but our friend Marcus is the polymath of our times.
Interested to find out what he had against Paul Krugman, I checked on today's blog record. Marcus has been sounding off on international finance/science/Wall Street/a short lecture on how UK elections are run/international relations present and future - with a few swipes at other issues thrown in.
His views on the presidential elections seem to change when he is offering readers the benefit of his knowledge on other assorted subjects.
It is quite a surprise that with all this varied expertise at his fingertips, he has so much time available to beseige the BBC blogs.
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"On Monday, Israel President Shimon Peres called for reconciliation between the Jewish and Israeli-Arab communities in the town, where about 14 Israeli-Arab families remain unable to return to their homes."
Is there any clearer indictiment of this society?
Why can't 14 families return to their homes? Why aren't the Israeli police protecting Israeli citizens from this outrageous behaviour? Who are making the terrorist threats? Why are they not arrested as in any other civilised country.
We know why, they come from a privileged group.
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This isn't very balanced reporting is it now, Justin? Maybe you have a duty as a reporter to be a bit more balanced? I know you want McCain to win, but this is really scare mongering. Liberal isn't a dirty word here Justin, or have you forgotten due to your extended absence?
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At the world economic policy seems to be developed in Downing Street, which is a good thing for the Prime Minister and Party I support, and perhaps, it will make a good temporary band aid for current finical woes, but it's not a fix
People have been warning for years, about what is happening, from ironically hedge fund mangers, to centre left liberals like Nader, in the states, and Will Hutton over here, to various grouping of the European democratic left - by this I don't mean the so called centre left governments of europe, but proper democratic socialist and trade unions.
We can't live on credit, as one day it's gonna run out, with out governments putting in trillions of tax payers money, and that's exactly what has happened We've all done, I mean who hasn't bought something on credit?
I have read that perhaps this is the end of of free market economics, better known in Europe as Thatcherism. If so good, it's something we can't economically sustain, particularly with dwindling resources.
All in all this economic criss might be a good thing, because may be people will start listening to the 'voices of doom,' and may be something better will come out of it.
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#183 magickirin
Sir/Madam,
Maybe English is not your first language and in that case you are to be congratulated on your level of proficiency and also for your interest in contributing to meaningful debate. However I must point out that due to the juxtaposition of your words (not to mention your spelling) I for one find it difficult to understand your meaning. I think it unfair to try and simply guess at your intention so may I suggest you have your contributions reviewed prior to submitting them?
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Simon get a grip this is appalling. Get some people in here do the job or it's all going to fall over. A blog only works if postings clear rapidly surely you know that.
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#184 asascot
Love it! Unfortunately true. Can't imagine why Bush was even delivering the message and not Paulson.
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#174 oldnat
I wouldn't bother with the sarcasm if I were you. He won't get it.
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meminmk (#185), approval ratings in Europe mean nothing in American elections. Why would you think they do?
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Ref 169
"You have got to be joking! Have you ever witnessed the cut and thrust of British parliamentary debate?"
My commentary about sending you Bush, Cheney, McCain and Palin to the UK was an awkward attempt at sarcasm, I would not wish them on anyone, particularly on a nation that I respect and admire. I'll try to stick to facts, rather than humor. Incidentally, I spent a year in England five decades ago and had an opportunity to get a glimpse at how things work in your country.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
#42 Limey
I find it goes against the grain to find fault with a fellow Brit. BUT where the heck were you in the US that you conclude BBC coverage is less profound and illuminating than the soap opera entertainment that generally passes for NEWS in the US? All I can do is disagree I suppose. However, for the record, BBC America for my money asks more insightful questions to more influential individuals than most US News programs. They also do it in a respectful manner that clearly encourages those individuals to participate in their programs. There are good US News programs of course, Newsnight with Jim Lehrer comes to mind. Aren't generalizations fun!
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ref #176
Interesting parallel to 1972, Nixon did not need the Watergate break in. He would have beatan McGovern easily.
Obama could win without Acorn fraud.
It's there don't minimize it. ACORN is now claiming a few bad aplles excuse.
Worse part U.S tax payer money goes to them.
Another place we could cut.
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The counter argument could just as easily be: "you've had many years of a Republican Congress AND White House - look what a mess they made."
I don't think a Congress at loggerheads with their President is going to work very well.
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I have just finished watching a special that claimed 44 million American believed in
Armageddon!
It would appear that anyone accepting the Book of Revelation as divinely revealed, true and unchangeable would meet the definition of a fundamentalist- for such a person would be accepting scripture as definitive.
Now, if that individual is convinced that Armageddon will soon take place in northern Israel and be followed by the Rapture, the individual has the potential of becoming a dangerous ideologue. We already know of ministers who proclaim that the Bible requires support of Israel, right or wrong. Such conduct could be very detrimental to the interests of the United States.
There is a claim that there are 44 million such individuals in the United States. That many people could share such a delusion does establish them as insane, anymore than their conviction that the Earth is flat would make them insane.
Mass delusion is another consequence of fundamentalism (as it is a potential consequence of media manipulation).
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ref #194
Obama is like Teflon right now.
With all his proven associations, he should have been out earlier from the Dem Primary
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159, Marcus
"On the other hand, given the dumbing down of America, they might not care."
It was good to read that you are aware of - and take seriously - the dumbing down of America, one of the most damaging legacies of the last 8 years of a Republican presidency. As a consequence, I was "inspired" to dash off the following:
There is an Alaskan called Sarah,
With God on her side, nought can scare her!
She's the Wasilla driller!
The mass moose (meese?) killer!
Oh, and Dubyaing Down's new torchbearer...
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172, gunsandreligion wrote:
??What impresses me so far about Obama is that?politics for him is a craft. It's a game that he plays?using mathematics. I don't think that we've ever?had a candidate for the presidency with a mind-set?quite like this. Every other politician that I can?recall has a continuity of beliefs throughout their?career, and while they may have to compromise?with others to get bills passed, they have always?favored those core beliefs.
____
I don't know, if I had to pick one of the candidates for being opportunistic and not having 'core beliefs', it wouldn't be Obama.
As a matter of fact, I don't think there has been one single US president, or any other major US politician, who could both stick to his personal beliefs AND be successful, since the late 1950s.
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ref #193
Actually Sharon is a great leader who tried to make peace with an unwilling partner.
It's too bad Sadat is the only Arab leader who had shown the same courage as Israelis on the peace process.
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#190 Gary-A-Hill
You may be right. I love sarcasm, the lowest form of wit and the highest form of vulgarity. I retract nothing.
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#176
Cat,
ACORN pays its agents on a per form submitted basis. Unscrupulous individuals will submit multiple forms if they can. As ACORN has said any caught will be fired.
The counties generally catch duplicate forms before they send out voter cards, most get caught. Further checks on election day get most of the rest. The guy with 2 homes in 2 states could probably get away with it, not too many of them.
While it is fraudulent to knowingly submit multiple registrations it only becomes voter farud (as opposed to election) when you try to vote multiple times. There are checks and balances to catch that too.
Storm in a teacup, happens every year.
Bored Sam
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#204
My apologies. My response has betrayed my sensitivity. As a devotee of John Stewart and Colbert I should have recognized the intended sarcasm.
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ref205 MagicKirin
'palasinians rot'
these type of views can only come from people who are
1. blind to the world around the
2. delusional
3. morally corrupt
4. stupid
non of the above is an excuse.
Views like yours are as potent and dangerous as any suicide bomber
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after reading so many right wing fascist argue with no regard for the truth, logic or coherently reasoned arguments, why do so many bother. i suppose someone has to refute their vile, warmongering message.
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#146. jacksforge: "1 in 8 people diagnosed with cancer(many never get to see a doc) turn down medical treatment because they cannot afford it , in the United States of America.
yea it's working for us eh McCrim.(who got treated)"
As part of his Senatorial health-care plan. What's good for him should be available to everyone else.
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#205 magickirin
I wonder why I'm even taking time to respond to your objectionable comments. The Palestinians (popular definition of the peoples inhabiting the area but not accurate) have a right to exist, as does Israel. The violence is perpetrated by both sides and both the Palestinians and Israel are guilty of inhumane conduct. Responsibility must also be apportioned among the British, French and Americans, who established a homeland for the Jews in Palestine. The US has given, because of political pressure and the desire to nurture an ally in the region, and continues to give a huge proportion of its foreign aid to Israel, who in turn buy weapons from the US. The resulting David and Goliath scenario leaves the Palestinians somewhat impotent - a condition that exists all too often elsewhere in the world - so they resort to terrorist activities. This is not justifiable but maybe understandable. What to do? If I knew I would surpass some of the best minds that have wrestled with this problem for decades. I do know however that your suggestion is wrong, misguided, and unhelpful.
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bluepaddy13 (#188), are you talking about the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act? The Republicans controlled both houses of Congress in 1999, while the President was a Democrat. The original bill was a Republican bill, sponsored by Republicans. It was not passed in that form, and would not have survived a veto if it had. In conference, amendments were made to bring enough Democrats on board to make it veto-proof. It passed in that form and Clinton signed it. It was still essentially a Republican measure, but tarted up for the benefit of some Democrats. This does make it a bipartisan bill, but that's the way Congress works when we have divided government. If the minority party in Congress just refused to cooperate, and the President vetoed the bill, then things wouldn't get done. The parties are not monolithic anyway. It only takes a few members to cross over to get bills passed with a veto-proof majority, which they will do with the right incentives.
An aspect of bipartisanship is that both parties can claim success if it works out, and both can point fingers at the other if it doesn't. That's the case with GLB.
What the country needs now, in my opinion, is a filibuster-proof Democratic majority in both houses of Congress and Obama as President. Then the Democrats can take all the credit and blame for where we go from here. Just my opinion.
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#207. MagicKirin: "Worse part U.S tax payer money goes to (ACORN)."
I wonder if you'd care to substantiate that? How much money and exactly where does it go, and to whom?
Your charge is one which is bandied about frequently, but I've never seen numbers mentioned or anything else which would prove some kind of malfeasance. My understanding is that ACORN "does not accept government funding and is not tax exempt." Please don't quote the Michelle Malkins of the extreme right, because she and her cohorts have an agenda, much like Anne Coulter.
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What's being ignored is the "now" aspect. Obama talks about now; McCain talks about the past.
Consider the debates, McCain talked about Reagan, about going against his party line in 1983 and, most of all, about his Vietnam capture. Then, he goes on about Ayers in the 1960s.
The problem is that economic worries make people think in the now. Is it too late for him to change?
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Ref #209
Where have you been, Rapture is going to happen in the Great State of Alaska. Sarah is going to lead all 44 million Evangelicals to the Holy City of Wassila to experience it. While the rest of us suffer the tribulations in the lower 49 and I suppose the rest of the world.
Remember, the Holy City of Wassila has been purged of witches by Sarah's Witchhunter.
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As said by many before too. If Obama and McCain is to switch the color of their skin. There will be no need to fight aymore as McCain would have more than 20% lost.
Look at the issues and stop look at them as celebrity.
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McCain is apparently going to raise the Ayres issue again during the debate, something he said he wouldn't do a few days ago. Palin again attacks Obama's patriotism during her stump speeches. So much for the campaign "relaunch".
Meanwhile, I have no explanation for Obama's surge in Florida, which seems much larger than other swing states
http://www.pollster.com/polls/fl/08-fl-pres-ge-mvo.php
Also, this is really funny!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZv39r5cYI0
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At close to a 2 hour wait for moderation, I'll probably be long asleep before this clears- sorry, East Coast boy working early hours, so I can't keep up w. you folks to the East.
Re: the role of race: many of the comments here seem to be reflected in a 1 page article in the latest issue (10/10) of Science magazine (sciencemag.org), "Do Voter Surveys Underestimate the Impact of Racial Bias?" Among other points, it debates the reality, and possible impact of, the Brady effect.
#179 NewBriton
Under a previous discussion I addressed the myth that America was settled by Puritans. In a nutshell, while they had a pretty firm grip on New England, the Middle and Southern Colonies were pretty much exempt from their brand of theocracy. We had our own forms of intolerance, of course, but not nearly as systemic. But even New England wasn't nearly as monolithic as the mythmakers would have us believe; most of the people on the Mayflower weren't Puritans, and there was always a strong element in their society that just wanted left alone...
Elsewhere in the colonies we experimented w. toleration. Puritan New England + Quaker (tolerant multicultural) Pennsylvania + commercial New York + aristocratic Southern colonies + a fair leavening of uneducated backwoodsmen + a sprinking of Scots and Irish; some could see the roots of many of today's clash of ideologies in the last 300 years of history.
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#227
I don't have time to look for it, but someone earlier on this thread questioned why McCain's campaign was announcing strategy beforehand, allowing Obama's folks to plan prevention. This same question I believe applies to their new statement re: Ayers and the debate...
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171. At 6:56pm on 14 Oct 2008, Magherkin wrote:
ref #153
Read your history this was before 67 when they took graves stones from an ancient jewish cemetary for a latrine.
The Temple Mount area is sacred to all three monothesiastic religions, yet Sharon was criticized for going there.
----------------------------------------------------
um
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7669118.stm
de
get into this century mate
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Ah to those that call me nasty and say be nicer, thank you for good advice I will ignore it.sorryish.
there was a bard who might have said that your eloquent and lucid letters look far brighter next to the dung I leave behind.
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195 80%
marcus used to bore us here with those tirades but fortunately he has stayed away from that for a while.
Thankyou marcus
opps,Was that like leaving the brolly at home?
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205, ubermensch.
"Let the Palestinians rot."
Justin: MajicKirin's hatred of the Arabs is unrelenting and pathological. His obsession poisons this blog.
Many of us who post have serious disagreements with each other, and that is a good thing. But there is nothing good about this person's malevolence.
MagicKirin gets more vitriotlic with time. Is it possible to ban him from this blog?
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Justin, further to #233, please see #217.
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#233. allmymarbles: "MagicKirin gets more vitriotlic with time. Is it possible to ban him from this blog?"
Not such a good idea since we would have no idea of the bile he and his like spew elsewhere. Knowledge is power and knowing what he and they have to say keeps us vigilant.
I have wondered about his own faith; if it's Jewish he certainly does his fellow adherents no good. I think I am correct in saying that Judaism does not believe in an after-life, as does Christianity. Just as well, since we can guess in which direction he would go. And if he isn't Jewish, then we know which it will be anyway -and it won't be up!
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
227, Cyril.
Florida has many transplants from the northeast, a liberal area which is low on racism. Also there is a sizable Jewish population. Jews tend to be voters and are primarily Democrats. I expect Florida to come out for Obama.
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ref #217,221,230
Read the entire thread and just not cherry pick lines.
I am responding to ridicolous claims by you and other posters.
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All the Marbles stop lying.
You are equating criticsm of Palestinians terrorists with every Arab nationality.
You are a racist and a bigot. and have no understanding of the subject.
Nor do you Jacky boy.
Remember
Palestinan is not synomous with Arab
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to the moderators:
Why are you allowing Jackforge and All the Marbles to continue to put diatrabes against Israel on this blog?
I make a comment about the Presidential race they bring up Israel.
Can they be directed to one of the many Israeli-phobic web sights on the web and let the rest of us discuss the election
Thank you
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Is it just the current administration that's tied into oil, or most senior Republicans?
This is an interesting story on CNN.
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/US/10/14/oil.whistleblower/index.html
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I'm surprised- some beat me to mentioning Doctor Who!
BTW, the Conservatives in Canada gained seats, but are still a minority.
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#228 via-media
Getting late and I will not spend a lot of time here in response to your comments regarding my assertion about the Puritan mentality. About fifty percent of the Mayflower passengers were separatists, escaping persecution for their religious beliefs. Don't take the descriptor of Puritan too literally. Truth is that most of the early settlers escaped their countries of birth because of what they viewed as persecution of their religious beliefs. The "sprinkling of Scots and Irish" you refer to was in fact much greater than that unit of measurement would indicate, and they brought with them the equally restrictive and narrow philosophies of the Presbyterian church. What was transplanted to the new world took firm root and is the foundation of the fundamentalist viewpoints prevalent among the right wing elements today.
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#205 MagiKirin
"If the world would all stand behind Israel, the violence would be lessened"
May I beg to ask, how? Because then Israel will have full license to bomb other arab countries, thus making them 'peaceful' in the process?
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The question is:
Could McCain still win this election?
The answer is: Anything is possible.
I have already voted. I find it somewhat amusing that some people are still getting very nasty with each others opinions. I have been told that it is "not over until the fat lady sings."
I could be very wrong but I think that this lady has already sung.
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Oh dear, more trouble in the "Conservative" camp.
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/10/14/buckley-leaves-national-review-after-obama-endorsement/#more-24538
Could somebody please explain Matt Lewis' comments, below, on the matter. Is he claiming that "open mindedness" is anathema to conservatives?
Matt Lewis, a contributing writer to the conservative Web site Townhall.com, told CNN the National Review made the right decision in quickly accepting Buckley's resignation.
"While it is acceptable for a conservative to vote for a third party – or to abstain from voting for McCain – no real conservative could cast their vote for Obama," he said. "The conservative movement didn’t leave him, he left it.
"Sadly, I think Christopher Buckley is merely the latest example of the “conservative” avant-garde who has succumbed to a common temptation: Becoming more liberal is tantamount to becoming more open-minded. There is a palpable elitism among some of the conservative panjandrum," Lewis said.
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McCain has said on more than one occasion that he knew how to catch Osama bin laden. If McCain could pull this off, maybe he might have a chance to win his most coveted prize, being POTUS before he dies or drools into senility and the 'Divine Sarah' steps in.
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TO Allmymarbles and others
Keep Posting!
We really need some enlightened viewpoints here, also some HUMOR.
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246, aqua.
You have just said you have already voted. There is supposed to be a large absentee ballot vote this year. Since Obama is so far ahead while people are voting early, I guess those ballots would favor Obama.
Also, even though there is talk of saving the economic situation (more cheerful than realistic), McCain is still falling in the polls. And, as for the betting odds, they are still increasing in Obama's favor.
How can Obama lose at this point?
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It's not possible for McCain to win now. Surrender, fools!
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248
I think McCain intends bringing in Palins witchdoctor to tell him where OBL is.
He's not stupid.
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#212, u-boat, I appreciate your point about politicians
not being able to stick to their personal beliefs and
get elected - this must be a severe conflict for them.
McCain's conflicts are fairly obvious. He made a deal
with the devil by continuing on with the Republican
party after 2000.
Obama had to make the transition from representing
one of the most liberal districts in the country as
a state senator to his current position.
I'm just having more trouble figuring out where Obama
came from than McCain, because he has been on
the national scene for a relatively short period of time.
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248, aqua.
Osama bin Laden, in a sense, doesn't matter. Cut him down and another will take his place. Until there is a more equitable treatment of the people of the Middle East there will be terrorist activities. Invading Iraq was about the stupidest thing we could have done.
And now we will concentrate on Afghanistan. Another stupidity. Afghanistan can never be conquered. Even if we were to bomb it to oblivion, it would still not be conquered. (Unless we pursued a policy of genocide, shades of everything we are supposed to hate.)
Instead of going boom boom all over the place, wouldn't be more prudent to address the reason for their hate? (If ubermensch is monitoring, I consider the Palestinians only a minor part of the problem.)
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211, Arthur.
I wrote a reply to you, but since it contained some Latin it was automatically eliminated. I started by saying that Maureen Dowd called Sarah Palin "Barracuda Borealis" in an article she wrote. The rest of the piece was in Latin, fake Latin and English, in a wonderful potpourri.
Can I get foreign words through if I put them in quotes?
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To#254Allmymarbles
A very serious and reasoned response to my somewhat silly post. I totally agree that there will be others who will take up the banner and fight when bin laden is no more.
If you have read any of my previous posts, you might know my views on war. My family has already paid our blood price and we want no more of this for ourselves or for any others.
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255, test.
"hench-femina" I don't think you need Latin to figure that one out. I will try one more in quotes.
"supralupocidit" = kills wolf from above (the air)
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240. MagicKirin
MagicKirin........ that post is complete nonsense. We know it; the moderators know it and most of all, YOU know it.
In virtually every blog post topic raised over the last few weeks concerning aspects of the US election, you have repeatedly self-introduced and overtly steered commentary completely off subject, and Google Earth flight-like, onto the ground within a given radius of Jerusalem.
People are patient and sympathetic to views here, no problem, but they are quite right to lose patience with dogmatic, one dimensional bloggers, whose approach is like a dog with bone, predominently off subject.
Either get on topic here and make a reasoned contribution, or go and find one mirroring your chosen focus please. In the meantime, the advice to all other ticked off bloggers here is simply to completely ignore you until relevance prevails.
Bill
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#254 marbles
Apparently the taliban are willing to have talks over this. If it's true that they have split fROm al-queda, then it can only be good news. we needn't bomb them out. Maybe we could send MagicKirin over to talk with them.
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259
The Saudis hosted a meeting with the Taliban last week. They reportedly agreed to break with Al Queda, although I don't know whether the USA and UK were involved in followup talks.
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#254, Ms. Marbles, could it be that the Taliban
want to get rid of Al Qaeda because the conflicts
in their region are really tribal in nature.
Could it be that they want us to leave so that
they can get back to "business as usual?"
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258, BillTyrone. Yes, off to Coventry with him.
259, Paul. Magic could be our sacrificial lamb, sacrificial snake actually.
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259, 260, 261.
I doubt that we are involved in the talks, but I will try to find out. No matter what, stepping up the war in Afghanistan is idiotic.
Let's see what happens when Obama gets in. I think the Middle East is waiting on our election as anxiously as we are. They don't want war either.
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#205 allmymarbles
I hate to disagree with you on this I agree with you one many other issues but banning Magic no. Every time he posts he creates more respect for the Palestinian Arab cause.
This bit is for Magic. Curiously I agree with you about Sharon he was a brutal man with a lot of innocent deaths on his hands but he did want to negotiate. His reasons were simple the same as the reasons the NI protestants were forced to negotiate. In the case of the protestants the catholics were out-breeding them and in the case of the Israelis the Arabs are doing the same.
I believe that the Israelis are slowly but surely losing, the should negotiate now while they have some bargaining power and be prepared to give away a lot to gain security. The longer they wait the the more they will lose. The big problem is the hard line Jewish religious groups who believe in the old testament as if it were history. They were the people who killed Rabin who also wanted to negotiate.
Ohoops sorry this has become rather long. got along.
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"239. At 04:47am on 15 Oct 2008, MagicKirin wrote:
All the Marbles stop lying.
You are equating criticsm of Palestinians terrorists with every Arab nationality."
Which you and most other fanatics do all the time.
"You are a racist and a bigot. and have no understanding of the subject."
This from soemone who is anti-semetic as regards "arabs"
"Remember
Palestinan is not synomous with Arab"
So you do accept they exist then, progress
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264, Timothy.
I wonder how Magic can bear to keep posting on this blog. Not that I have much regard for popularity contests, but how would you, or I, feel if we were unanimously disdained? Would we decide to visit a shrink, or would we, like McCain, bungle on, without a hope of being heard?
I takes a marvelously callous person to withstand consistent condemnation. Maybe Magic missed his calling. He should have gone into politics.
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# 261 gunsandreligion
"Could it be that they want us to leave so that
they can get back to "business as usual?""
Very definitely so for all I've read about Afghanistan "business as usual" was relentless inter tribal war. Try looking at the first to the third Afghan wars and the period between each one. Fascinating stuff.
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#250. allmymarbles: "How can Obama lose at this point?"
Two ways, even if they appear improbable: an attack on a large city, theme park or subway system; and two, if some major, devastating "revelation" were to be unearthed, regardless of its veracity. Although the polls indicate a probable win for Mr Obama, we are only half way through October and lot can happen in that relatively short time. This is not the moment to be overconfident.
Re MagicKirin (I wonder what that means?) he still hasn't told us what faith he belongs to; I'd find that very interesting and which might explain his dogmatic opinions. (Are we sure MagicK is actually male? The name struck me as being female originally, but maybe I've missed a post clarifying this.)
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#258, 262
Once again no please don't send him away. I know he sends the blog off topic but at least it does raise the subject of the Middle East in discussion. Given that neither the Republicans or the Democrats are prepared to even countenance any form of criticism of Israel at least we are having a discussion of a hugely important topic. A topic which I think is probably second only to climate change in it's importance to us and more importantly our offspring.
I find it frightening how complete is the grasp of the pro Israel lobby on the major US political parties that Israel cannot be criticised in any way.
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#268 David_Cunard
Good point re Magic. Which brings up another point is MA11 one person or a group? Those long posts take a deal of time to put together maybe he/she's a co-operative.
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#266 allmymarbles
Or maybe he's a very subtle Palestinian playing a very clever game.
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Recent comments are beginning to assume that McCain cannot win. This is presumtive balderdash. If the "system" wants McCain to win and the percentage difference between the candidates is less than sa 6% in key states the numbers can be and will be manipulated.
In this election, every vote counts right up until the polls close. I would love to look directly in the eyes of every congressman/woman and Senator and ask them about an honest and accountable voting system. None of these folks have the courage to demand what is one of the bedrock requirements of any democracy.
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I've all but given up on Mr. Webb. He has virtually nothing nice to say about Obama whatsoever. Is this the famous BBC balance?
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ref #272
You are correct about the polls, it will change several times.
In fact a Zogby poll had it a statistical dead heat yesterday.
We have 20 days more of polls which will contradict each other daily.
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To the Moderators:
After I went to bed, there were several personal attack posts by Jackforge, Marbles and David Cunard.
What is there problem?
It seems they are spirtiual kin to the Duke 88, Ward Churchill and the U.N Human Rights Council.
Attacking opponents they disagree with the bogus claim of racism.
Since I've refuted their ridicolous claims on this board they want me banned.
They mist also support the Fairness Doctrine
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A working person voting for McCain is like a chicken voting for Colonel Sanders.
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#244 NewBriton
I was agreeing with you, but also just trying to note that the Puritans weren't the only game in town. The roots of American intolerance indeed run deep, but so do the roots of toleration.
My previous example used Pennsylvania's founding as an example- in one colony toleration flourished alongside intolerance and greed. The same colony in which a band of ruffians (the Paxton Boys) weren't stopped from massacring a community of converted Native Americans, and which produced the Whiskey Rebellion, also gave us Ben Franklin, and William Penn's at the time unusual legacy of toleration for all sects. Without this toleration, odd groups like my Reform Church Swiss ancestors would have never migrated to the New World.
This mix of intolerance and tolerance might be a better archetype for American culture.
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275. At 10:32am on 15 Oct 2008, MagicKirin wrote:
To the Moderators:
After I went to bed, there were several personal attack posts by Jackforge, Marbles and David Cunard.
What is there problem?
It seems they are spirtiual kin to the Duke 88, Ward Churchill and the U.N Human Rights Council.
Attacking opponents they disagree with the bogus claim of racism."
Nothing bogus about your attitude towards the Palestinian people - pure prejudice.
You barely see them as human beings.
Indeed many of your criticisms - Hugo CHavez etc seem chiefly to attack people who are non-white.
Its amazing you have been allowed to get away with such comments
Since we have learnt since WII one cannot argue with bigots ther seems little point in giving you the space to insult whole categories of people.
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ref #278
Nothing bogus about your attitude towards the Palestinian people - pure prejudice.
You barely see them as human beings.
Indeed many of your criticisms - Hugo CHavez etc seem chiefly to attack people who are non-white.
So it ok for certain ethnicticies to be dictators and human rights violators
I have a problem with Putin, Sloban and other caucasian violators.
My attitude towards the Palestinians is that they don't want peace, that is proven by their actions. My problem with Hugo is that he is supporting terrorists in Columbia.
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A brief hello from a diversion into real life!
Just to note that my postal ballot is riding the Royal Snail on its way to the US Mail. My vote is secret, of course ;-)
Interesting perspective continues from fivethirtyeight, if hard to believe - Statistically Obama is favoured 19 to 1 to win!
A lovely profile of Quickdraw John McCain in Rolling Stone is worth a read for sheer entertainment.
I've spent the last week with an Eskimo (no friend of Sarah's!!!) creating a thing of beauty.
Peace to all
xx
ed
Meanwhile, there's a hole in the bucket, dear ........
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Magic,
Like resisting their dispossession? Like standing in the path of Israeli bullets?Get real!
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I just love the headline!
WOW! A two day streak!Europe Stocks Snap Winning Streak
;-)
ed
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Hi i am a first time blogger, i do read alot of the blogs and the comments they recive but this is the first time i ever felt that i wish to add my 2 pence worth
To #159 marcus(whatever)
this post i think celebrates the fact propergander still works to on people who like to belive everything they are told is true and honest, i'm sorry but come on if what you say is remotly true do you belive he would even eligbile to run for POTUS, before you ssay something is fact do a little research from someone or somewhere who doesnt have a intrest on the outcome of the election, All this info you have quoted has been relesed buy the republincan party and should be checked and taken with a pinch of salt
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you will have to forgive my spelling i will admit it is a weak are for myself
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279.
"So it ok for certain ethnicticies to be dictators and human rights violators"
What "ethnicities" are these? No ethnicity is responsible for human rights violations per se.
"I have a problem with Putin, Sloban and other caucasian violators."
But you never mention them - you seem proccupied with Chavez etc, n on-white violators
"My attitude towards the Palestinians is that they don't want peace,"
Thanks for proving my point about your bigotry - game set and match
Your real problem with the Palestinians is that they are semetic and different to you.
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275. At 10:32am on 15 Oct 2008, MagicKirin wrote:
To the Moderators:
After I went to bed, there were several personal attack posts by Jackforge, Marbles and David Cunard.
What is there problem?
It seems they are spirtiual kin to the Duke 88, Ward Churchill and the U.N Human Rights Council.
Attacking opponents they disagree with the bogus claim of racism.
Since I've refuted their ridicolous claims on this board they want me banned.
They mist also support the Fairness Doctrine
----------------------------------------------------
238. At 04:43am on 15 Oct 2008, MagicKirin wrote:
ref #217,221,230
Read the entire thread and just not cherry pick lines.
I am responding to ridicolous claims by you and other posters.
----------------------------------
Magherkin
you say follow the thread.
How do I teach you how to think?
Suppose I don't.
but i'll try.
217. 221 do not follow what started as me telling you about a riot that lasted 3 days because an arab guy drove a car by some angry religiously intollerant jewish kids.
they stoned his car and he got arrested.
You replied to that post with some rant about me going on about something in 67 or sometime in the past.
others replied to your rubbish assessment of history but my post replies directly to your answer to my comments and questions in post 153.
So may I say to you "follow the thread yourself MATE.
To add that I do think you should be arrested and locked up for incitement of terrorism and not banned from this site.
Or give up, you are lost.
-----------------------------------------------
230. At 03:17am on 15 Oct 2008, jacksforge wrote:
171. At 6:56pm on 14 Oct 2008, Magherkin wrote:
ref #153
Read your history this was before 67 when they took graves stones from an ancient jewish cemetary for a latrine.
The Temple Mount area is sacred to all three monothesiastic religions, yet Sharon was criticized for going there.
----------------------------------------------------
um
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7669118.stm
de
get into this century mate
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And everyone do you still wonder why it is I act as I do on this site.
here is a clear example of where pressing a few buttons in the "right" order gets those on the right to open up with how they really feel.
and others can judge from there whether he is a racist as I claim or(and proven) or an open minded person as he claims.
By the way to Guns and religion.
You are an example of those that can call them selves independent and not racist I respect your reasoning earlier as to the questions about obama and the reasons to fear the other choice more.
Magherkin that is why it is you that gets so much attention.
which you love, come off it.
I wish the mods could just ban your racist comments instead of striking posts that offend you because your a cry baby
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sorry for gary and the grammar trolls
i should have said you're a cry baby
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ed welcome back.
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239. At 04:47am on 15 Oct 2008, MagicKirin wrote:
All the Marbles stop lying.
You are equating criticsm of Palestinians terrorists with every Arab nationality.
You are a racist and a bigot. and have no understanding of the subject.
Nor do you Jacky boy.
Remember
Palestinan is not synomous with Arab
------------------------------------------------
Fool you SHOULD be banned.
it was you that thought i referred to some event in the 60's.
it is not us equating palistinians terrorists with all arabs.
it is you saying all palistinians are terrorist.
that is the racist bit.
Answer the question that got you riled.
was the guy that offered his own neck to stop the violence in his town a terrorist or was it the group of jewish kids that attacked his vehicle?
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285
the real problem is they are BOTH semetic and he does not like his brother.
which is he cane or able?
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I brought up Israel because there was some news out of there that was relevant to the discussion on you and racism and how it might affect your vote in the elections.
IT WAS NEWS not a repeat of the same rubbish you have said every week or the educated responces to that rubbish.
It was a direct question to you which you failed to answer, but instead tried to confuse everyone but succeded in only confusing yourself.
so be quiet
and learn
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Ed
nice kayak there.
glad to see creativity gets in the way of this.
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#275. MagicKirin: "After I went to bed, there were several personal attack posts by . . . and David Cunard. . . Since I've refuted their ridicolous claims on this board they want me banned."
Apparently you just did not read what I had written with regard to banning: "Not such a good idea". Neither did you respond to my enquiry about what religious faith you adhere to nor the (factual) amounts of money that ACORN is allegedly receiving from taxpayers. When you decline to answer the questions, then your reasoning must always be suspect.
****************
Ed I, Welcome back!
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The Dow Industrial is down 735 points today here in the good old USofA. McCain/Palin have no chance of pulling this one out. McCain is really, really out of touch with his surroundings, his solutions are all over the map. Palin is a disgrace to pit bulls, I know, I own one, and they are remarkable creatures, loyal, honest, trustworthy, and fearless, so, stop giving the breed a bad name by referring to her as a pit bull. As for McCain/Palin winning in Virgina, that is not going to happen, I know far to many conservatives who are voting Obama in 2008, first time Dems, simply put, he at least has a plan. Give him a chance, if he fails, he is out in four years, beats another four years of Bush politics. I understand that it is easy to have a distorted view politics in the US, from the other side of the pond, but, one must live here to fully understand the deceit and lack of ethics involved in the campaigns to really apprecite them. Obama / Biden 2008
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