Love and untogetherness
My BBC colleague Jeff Overs took this rather fine shot outside a political memorabilia shop - seems to sum up the whole election at the moment. He's getting the love; they are looking untogether.
To Duhbuh and others who complain about coverage of Sarah Palin, I would say the party must take responsibility for not having the confidence to let her be herself. The interviews have been awful: that's not media bias, it's incompetence, hers to an extent but the party's for letting it happen.
And someone else points out that she does have policies - views - that are at odds with McCain's, but also - bluntly - at odds with the rest of the nation, or at least the direction the nation is following. That is why she is a disaster. Unless of course they win. This is the case for McCain/Palin put with passion and vigour
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The photo emphasises my point about press coverage, where's Biden!?!
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Justin, I was about to comment on your dedication to be writing at 10:45 on a Saturday evening, when i remembered you're in Washington and its probably a more Workable hour.
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... the party must take responsibility for not having the confidence to let her be herself.
Palin being herself would be a study in semi-coherence. When she was understandable, she'd scare most of us to death.
If a politician can't remember talking points during a campaign interview, how can she be expected to remember policy postions, etc., when in office?
The fact that the know-nothing crowd thinks Palin is qualified because she's one of them shows the damage done to American political discourse by three decades of conservative denigration of government.
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One for the front page of Private Eye, surely. With balloons: "Beam me up Scotty" and "What old guy standing next to me?"
Resonates, rather after reading his from CNN: ""She is a diva. She takes no advice from anyone," said this McCain adviser. "She does not have any relationships of trust with any of us, her family or anyone else. Also, she is playing for her own future and sees herself as the next leader of the party."
Pretty mild really by comparison to what we heard about Gordon/Tony/Peter . . . But "no relationships of trust . . with her family" is rather startling. If I were that kind of journalist, I'd be checking the flight times to Alaska and be going digging I think, after that hint. Can I borrow that BBC plane and the bubbly?
The less said about that article on 'Real Clear Politics' the better. (Well, I can hope, can't I.) We've read all that here. Though I don't recall seeing Christopher Hitchens described as a "socialist/atheist" before.
"A foreign policy novice instinctively inclined to the flabbiest, most vaporous multilateralism . . . and who refers to the most deliberate act of war since Pearl Harbor as 'the tragedy of 9/11', a term more appropriate for a bus accident?
If a bus accident is a 'tragedy' what are you supposed to call, say, the attack on the London Tube or the Madrid trains? 'A holocaust'? So 9/11 would be, what, 'an apocalypse'?
Words, words, words . . .
And who would the "man who is the most prepared, most knowledgeable, most serious foreign policy thinker in the United States Senate" be, again?
Answers on a postcard, with examples, please.
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Charles Krautheimer is a card. He reminds me of a cucumber in a pickle barrel: Always sour unless rinsed. He is so steeped in his Neoconservatism until he does not seem understand that we have moved beyond 20th century thinking. He and his opinions are relics from the Cold War.
He like McCain and Palin seem to hold Joe MaCarthy as their political geru. They quote him without naming him contantly, i.e. Guilt by Association, Obama not seeing America as "we" do, and Obama will say anything to get elected. Krautheimer will say and write anything to get McCain and Palin elected.
Krautheimer has supported George W. Bush and Cheney for so long until the thought of life without them is too much. But if McCain and Palin take of residence in the White House everything remains the same. Nothing like the comfort of home.
From the vemin and vermin that comes from Krautheimers columns against Obama, one might begin to think that their is something more behind the pen than just a desire to see one's "adopted" country not fall into the hands of a Liberal Goverment for a change.
One never knows; yet one never doubts. And I like paper dolls and cut-outs. I used to play with them as a kid. But when I became an adult, I put away childish things like jealosy and envy.
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"If the current polls are correct, we are about to elect as President of the United States a man who is essentially a cipher, who has left almost no paper trail, seems to have few friends (that at least will talk) and has entire years missing out of his biography."
Actually, this is an almost perfect description of Ronald Reagan, not Barack Obama. And I think Reagan turned out to be OK. Other than making speeches, Reagan really had very little in the way of a political record, was by many accounts a friendly but distant person with few friends but many acquaintances, and downplayed or ignored his years as a labor leader, among other things.
Obama has 2 books, 4 years in the Senate, and 20 months' worth of campaign speeches, debates, and other events -- not to mention a detailed website with policy prescriptions and other information. There's really not a lot of mystery there.
On the other hand, if you think that a President needs a "traditional" upbringing, then yes, I can see how it would seem mysterious. Personally, I don't.
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By the way, even if they win, Palin and McCain will probably turn on each other. She seems too ambitious and full of herself now to play second fiddle for long.
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Justin,
I read the Krauthammer piece and it makes sense to me as an uncertain voter. What surprises me is that you have described it as a passionate and vigorous defence. The points are simply common sense. If Palin is inexperienced, why is Obama not inexperienced? If Mc Cain is running a dirty campaign, why not report the statements that Obama's campaign made? More to the point, why have YOU not made the same points? If you are covering the election, why have you not reported the slurs?
If we are to elected a president for their judgement (Pace Edmund Burke) why not ask about Obama's judgement with Wright and Ayer. Why did he only disavow them when the public noticed? If he never sought to know more about Ayer and no one in his staff looked at him (after all Ayer helped launch Obama in Chicago politics), what does that say about his judgement?
To put it directly, I ask you to scan Yahoo News and note how many stories focus on McCain and Palin's gaffes, misteps, and foibles. I rarely see any mention of Obama's or Biden's yet the blogs and you tube contain them. Why is there such a difference? Coincidence? Hardly, the difference is that each receives a different slant. You demonstrate this by making Krauthammer sound nearly irrational by his passion and vigour rather than his reason, logic, and ACCURACY, which used to be the mark of the BBC
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Interesting that Obama has a white face and has two white female "fans"
Signifies all that is wrong with bbc bias on US and UK politics.
bbc UK socialist bias has now hit the bumpers with the UK public over Corfugate and I expect the same over your biased opinions and the bbc army coming out to support you in the USA at our expense.
Any way its "Dubyah" and I have not been in USA for some time.
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While it is easy to condem S Palin, I think that she has been the victim of unfortunate circumstance. On some occasion she has been grossly inaccurate and contived in her speeches. Certainly, she has not backed away from goading the rather base and simplistic opinions of those that the Republicans now find so deplorable. However, to say that she has few qualities etc. is to undermine her abilities - you don;t become Governor of a state for nothing. There most be something about her. I won't agree with her policies I'm sure, but even I have to say that the coverage of her has been disproportionate.
That said though, she has clearly had a difference of communication with McCain. Perhaps that is as much his fault as anyone elses; as candidate he is ultimately responsible for his campaign. Either way though, their poor communication and lack of chemistry cannot be hidden from the US population (even with the Fox network).
The 'case' for McCain is interesting, but seems to disregard some crucial elements about historical arguments. For example, the chief criticism of the war in Iraq is nto the strageic purpose, but the level of innocent deaths attributed to it. IN short, a considerable number of people felt that too may died simply to remove one dictator (out of many in the world), whose threat to US security was dubious to say the least. Burma is responsible for 15% of illegal opium, much of which goes to the US - planning on invading Burma anytime soon? I doubt it.
Also, harking about the qualities of McCain in terms of his experience is shallow and open to attack. Bush had experience (he was Governor of Texas remember - bigger than Alaska). However, that didn't stop Osama Bin Laden from escaping in Afghanistan. It didn't stop Al Qaida regrouping in Pakistan. It didn't stop many US soldiers dying needlessly in Iraq for a false cause.
ONe man's experience is another man's baggage. In my view, I think that McCain is carrying too much. However, I';m not a US citizen, so I will await the decision of the US people with interest. JUst please - no Florida 2000. I'm not sure how people will react this time.
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"Resonates, rather after reading his from CNN: ""She is a diva. She takes no advice from anyone," said this McCain adviser. "She does not have any relationships of trust with any of us, her family or anyone else. Also, she is playing for her own future and sees herself as the next leader of the party."
========================
I read this also. Therefore, we have two people of equally shallow ambition. That is why they cannot even look at each other. Palin is more than scary...she is a total disaster waiting to happen.
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politics are not forgiving when it comes to key decision...mccain, a 'liberal' maverick of the conservative party and worth of much respect, has chosen an ignorant close minded gun and bible fanatic as his running mate...well, the polls speak on their own...
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And what about the major flubs from Biden
The crisis Obama will face in the first 6 months because he is not tested.
The Hillary would be a better canidate tham me
The diner that he likes that has been out of business in 12 years.
Don't kid yourself the media bias for a man with no resume is transparent
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"To Duhbuh and others who complain about coverage of Sarah Palin . . ."
Actually, Duhbah was quoting Michael Malone, on Pajamas.com. It doesn't help to quote that site any more than it does The Huffington Post.
It goes without saying that if they win, she won't be the disaster you say, but rather reflects the views of so-called "mid-America" who are supposed to be her supporters. McCain is almost incidental to their vote. To quote Yogi Berra, "It ain't over till it's over." Ten days to go (by GMT) and the count down begins, 10, 9, 8, 7 . . .
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# 9 cassandrina wrote:
Are you mad? The "white face" is from the reflection of the sunlight off of the cardboard.
Duhbuh is the name of a commenter that Mr. Webb is reffering to. Did you even click the link.
I am, however, amused by the concept of a Socialist BBC Army, who are clearly keeping the public down. Tinfoil hats, anyone?
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Juston,
Where's the Michelle cut out?
Confused Sam
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"(Palin) does have policies - views - that are at odds with McCain's, but also - bluntly - at odds with the rest of the nation . . .)
Coincidentally, I found this suggestion that Palin is "going rogue." Seems that she is looking ahead, way ahead.
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#16 SamTyler1969
I presumed that you had already bought/stolen it!
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All this rubbish about media bias is pathetic. The worst argument I heard was Bill O'Reilly trying to accuse journalists of playing "gothcha" politics in their Sarah Palin interviews. Isn't "gotcha" the whole point of political interviews - to test the candidates mettle in putting forward a persuasuve argunment? If that woman ever becomes American President, I'm gonna be checking me Nostradamus book to see if the world's due to end.
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#13 Magickirin:
"And what about the major flubs from Biden
The crisis Obama will face in the first 6 months because he is not tested.
The Hillary would be a better canidate tham me
The diner that he likes that has been out of business in 12 years.
Don't kid yourself the media bias for a man with no resume is transparent"
Sorry but you couldn't even get the outcome of the popular vote for the 2000 election right which is a matter of public record, and you've yet to admit it, what value can anyone place on anything you say?
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#18
Nat,
I'm pleading the 5th.
Defendant Sam
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14. David_Cunard wrote:
"To Duhbuh and others who complain about coverage of Sarah Palin . . ." Actually, Duhbah was quoting Michael Malone, on Pajamas.com.
Yes; I read that: "A few days ago, when asked by a new acquaintance what I did for a living, I replied that I was "a writer", because I couldn't bring myself to admit to a stranger that I'm a journalist..."
Pathetic wimp. But then over the years, I admit I got into the habit of adding hurriedly "But not on The Sunor anything like that!"
Now if I'd been a politician or an estate agent, it would be different. I'd definitely want to keep quiet about that.
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"at odds with the rest of the nation"
Really ? Which nation ?
She consistently draws 15-20,000 enthusiastic people to her campaign rallies.
20,000 in Missouri earlier today, 15,000 in Indiana right now.
Of course they're not in the NE or California but in the heartlands, you know, "flyover country".
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Re: #10 - uncannyJdavenport
I enjoyed your post, but do offer this clarification.
You stated to not being a US citizen and it is not clear from where you currently hail, so possibly not accustomed to accurate maps/globes.
---"Bush had experience (he was Governor of Texas remember - bigger than Alaska). However, that didn't stop Osama Bin Laden from escaping in Afghanistan. It didn't stop Al Qaida regrouping in Pakistan." ---
With most USA maps having Alaska and Hawaii in little boxes, Alaska comes off smaller and usually Hawaii larger than proportional to the continental states.
And in the way they often enter and are used in discussion - considerations of distance from the continental states and population putting them on par with a lot of the other "3s and 4s" in the electoral college - they gain misrepresentations.
In terms of area, Alaska "bigger" than Texas, in fact about double the size.
Texas is "bigger" than Alaska in many respects of population, economy and likely other components.
I don't know specifics, but I'm sure Texas being the second most populated state that its economy is bigger, with Alaska nearly the least populated state (though rising above Wyoming and Vermont, 50 and 49 respectively the past decade or two).
And regardless if a global map, most common types will exaggerate the higher value latitudes...
for perspective Sudan is about equal in size to Greeland and they are about equal with Mexico.
China is about equal with all of the United States, including Alaska...
Best wishes,
Cheers
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Palin off message? How so? I thought that Barracudas eat their own kind, which makes her a perfect pick for the party of social darwinism (would she appreciate the double entendre?)
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This quote once again rings true:
"No, what I object to (and I think most other Americans do as well) is the lack of equivalent hardball coverage of the other side - or worse, actively serving as attack dogs for Senators Obama and Biden."
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Justin:
Thanks, for mentioning your BBC colleague in your blog...
I am surprised that you are writing your blog, so late at night...
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Krauthammer
would that be a short thick hammer with no bounce?
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i love the pictures in your report!!!
Thanks to Jeff Overs, BBC...
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Until now, I'd always thought the last stages of an election, like hanging, concentrated minds, not unhinged them completely.
Now people are talking about Obama's earlobes . . .
I'm beginning to wonder if this is all really a kind of world media conspiracy, they're all actors, and on Nov 5th we'll discover the real America actually elected Sadaam Hussein, who miraculously rose from the dead a month ago in the grounds of Graceland.
I think I hear my hinges creaking.
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A political memorabilia shop? Who the hell goes to a political memorabilia shop?
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What could possiblely be so "untogether" about asking the "TRUTH" about where Obama was born??? Also if there is NO PROBLEM, why the COVER UP. THIS ISSUE WILL COME OUT. Berry's own Grandmother says she was AT HIS BIRTH, IN AFRICA. Come on now, this is getting UNREAL. IT IS ALSO VERY MUCH AGAINST THE CONSTITUTION, THE HIGHEST LAW IN AMERICA. AND no mater what anyone thinks about Gov. Palin she has been made fun of for being a woman and she and her family very harmfully and badly mistreated...not even because of her views, but silly things like the type of glasses she wears...talk about "untogetherness". This is just damned rude and stupid.
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To Duhbuh, Obama not vetted? Where were you during the primaries? Hillary attacked. The media delved into Rev. Wright, the NYTimes uncovered Ayers, and on the positive side covered Prof. Obama's record as a lecturer on constitutional law. Since then, the NYTimes uncovered Ayers. I think I know more about Obama than I do about my older brother.
An then there are the actions that speak louder than words. When the economic crisis hit, McCain started looking for a scapegoat. Wrong. Parachuted into a bi-partisan negotiation and made it partisan. Wrong. Changed his policy in mid-day. Wrong, wrong, wrong.
Meanwhile, Obama was pragmatic and calm.
The cliched it for me; I want a POTUS who thinks with his head, not the seat of his pants. McCain makes me airsick.
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#9 is quite possibly the strangest thing I've ever read on the International Interweb.
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I have never been too impressed with Sen. Biden, but he was correct in saying that the next President will be tested quickly. In fact, he will be tested within a nanosecond of being inaugurated, but not by the likes of Ahmadinejad, Chavez, Castro or Mevdeved, and not by imaginary foreign threats to the USA, but by the fiscal and economic crises he is going to inherit.
The biggest threat to our country is not developing nations like Venezuela, Cuba or Iran, but the domestic socio-economic problems that threaten the survival of our capitalist system, our industry, and our way of life.
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24. The population of Alaska is about the same as the cities of Glasgow (Scotland), Palermo (Italy), Frankfurt (Germany) and Izhevsk (Russia). Less than Leeds (England) or Sevilla (Spain).
In other words, a Governor of Alaska is roughly equivalent to the mayor of one of those cities, one supposes. None, of course, have oil, gas, mooses or polar bears, except possibly Izhevsk, which I know absolutely nothing about.
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Krauthammer - what a great name. How come no-one in Britain is called Krauthammer? See, that's the kind of thing that makes America great.
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#31
Habit,
Me, if they have Michelle stuff.
Collector Sam
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The reason why Palin receives a disproportionate amount of criticism is quite simple.
She's a joke, and has no right to be in the position she is in now as potentially the most powerful person in the world.
Her selection was blatantly cynical from the republican party. And was only selected to appeal to the base of the party because she ticked certain boxes.
*Pro-life...tick
*Young enough to offset Mccains age....tick
*Strong christian beliefs....tick
*Anti-gay rights....tick
*A woman to get some of those Clinton votes...tick
*From 'small town america'.....tick
*Pro Guns...tick
*Intelligent, with a unrivaled understanding of the economy and foriegn affairs, .......hmmmm, who cares she ticked all the other boxes.
Unfortunately for Mccain, the last point is the only point that really matters for a VP pick.
Most Mccain/Palin supporters will choose to ignore this post, because if they actual sat down and thought about it, they would realise how true it is.
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#22. british-ish: "Now if I'd been a politician or an estate agent, it would be different. I'd definitely want to keep quiet about that.
You forgot used-car salesmen!
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Mooses? No such word - it's "meece".
BTW, don't concern yourselves with the outcome of this election, it's irrelevant. Whichever one of these chumps gets to be top dog, the first thing he'll do is bomb Iran (to make the World a safer place, obviously) - and the fallout from that will make everyone's eyes water.
Hello World.
Goodbye World.
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37. HabitualHero wrote:
"Krauthammer - what a great name. How come no-one in Britain is called Krauthammer? See, that's the kind of thing that makes America great."
He's a rightwinger. Have to be with a name like that. Remember all those posts about Germans and WWII we keep reading from the rightish posters here?
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The next president will not only have to deal with an economic crisis and two sticky wars, but also a very fractured society. An Obama landslide may be more desirable than a very close election because at least the decision will be clear cut and not lead to further polarisation and litigation.
McCain is an experienced politician, Obama is a smart politician, I'm sure both of them will do a job of healing. The important thing is getting George W Bush and his nefarious friends away from the instruments of power.
Even a President Palin might not be such an awful thing - London is still standing six months after electing a ridiculed buffoon. Can Bin Laden really be harder to hunt down and kill than an Alaskan moose?
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#33 "McCain makes me airsick."
He's Superman?
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I forgot. Dear 'Greyness'
"You stated to not being a US citizen and it is not clear from where you currently hail, so possibly not accustomed to accurate maps/globes."
Yes, it's so embarrassing when I pull out a map here in London to give Americans directions, and it has "Terra Incognita" and "Here be Monsters" in big letters and it's all blank with just a few squiggles the other side of the blue coloured bit. What's a globe? Everyone knows the earth is flat just like the maps.
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40. David_Cunard:
Used car salesmen. Yes. Never could remember them. Rather not be reminded of them now, thanks.
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This just in from CNN:
Palin is "going rogue" McCain aide says
(I'd write more but I'm too busy laughing.)
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41HabitualHero wrote:
Mooses? No such word - it's "meece".
Oh, I get what they all mean about picking on Palin all the time. You mean she only shot a mouse? Hah! Typical socialist-media exaggeration.
But why didn't she put down poison?
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Referencing the Kruthhammer item suggests that the complainers are getting to poor Justin.
What "executive" job has McCain ever had?
Like Bush, he makes wrong decisions.
Unlike Bush, he switches his positions frequently.
____________________________
The assertions that Kruthhammer makes concerning World issues would provide topics for many threads. Again, he is wrong on every one!
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32, rw.
Loonies unite!!!
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43. StephenDerry wrote: "Even a President Palin might not be such an awful thing - London is still standing six months after electing a ridiculed buffoon."
Well, yes, but he can't start a war or fire off nuclear weapons. Or it might not be.
(Umm. Not so sure about not starting a war. Lots have begun because somebody said something stupid.)
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HOW could you say,
"Unless they win."
How COULD they win?
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#32 -
People like you honestly brighten my day. What kind of universe do you think you're living in where a major political candidate could tell lies that big about their background without anyone in the entire world's media finding out? Oh, I forgot, they're all biased. Never mind.
Oh, little hint - if you don't want to be mistaken for, um, a lunatic, try NOT PEPPERING your TEXT with PANICKY CAPITALISATION that makes you sound like a cross between a STARTLED RABBIT and LYNDON LAROUCHE.
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My Lord the Republican apologists are running scared. Unlike the nobler sort - you know, the ones who've really fought in wars and things like that, not the patriot ones who dodged the draft and send the young to die in places like Iraq - who have seen Obama is the only candidate who will restore America's dilapidated international reputation: or 'heal the world' as a fool once joked at a political party's convention recently, because that's kind of lame you know, to want to do that - what a loser!...
Krauthammer - boy oh boy. How can McCain win it back. Remind eveyone of the 'generations-long war' against the terrible fundamentalists, for starters. This is a good one. After all history shows Democrat Presidents are simply hopeless and at sea during times of war: look at Woodrow Wilson during the Great War, and Roosevelt and Truman during Wold War Two. Useless! Or even Kennedy/LBJ during Vietnam. The Democrats have no discernible track record of dealing with war or ideological enemies in any way...
Then Georgia. Bearing in mind Georgian militias began the recent conflict in South Ossetia - a part of the world where a great many feel themselves to be more Russian than Georgian - it doesn't matter! Sure when did truth and reason get in the way of a bit of cold war rhetoric, reds under the bed, red menace, socialist evil empire. Yeah! Stand up to the evil Russians, hand in hand with the evil Islamicists: aside from that time when they fought each other in Afghanistan in 1979 and we armed the Mujahadeen and then were surprised when they had all these weapons and resented and killed us! Yeah!
To borrow McCain's inane, 'folsky' whimsey, Krauthhammer looked into the eyes of Republicans and saw the initials
''R' 'U' 'N' 'N' 'I' 'N' 'G' 'S' 'C' 'A' 'R' 'E' 'D' - because for some reason McCain sees initials in peoples eyes instead of eyes.
We haven't even referred to Palin here yet...
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(Still laughing...)
Now that I've had time to sit down and read the comments, I see some of you were waaay ahead of me with the news from CNN. It's not often reading the news can cheer me up like that.
I'll bet damage control is already in play.
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We are reaching the point in the campaign where we are no longer sure who said what. Krauthammer though, is in the business of nonsense, like Kristol and other far-far-right characters. Why they hold onto these at times completely absurd positions and then utter them loudly over and over again was a mystery to me until recently, when an article in the New Yorker brought the rise of Sarah Palin to my attention. Apparently, the likes of kristol were ferried up to Alaska on a luxury cruise to meet Mama Moosa in person. Wined, dined, heli-trips....
I am a journalist by trade, and I know when someone is trying to buy me. These characters, Krauthammer and Co. are simply bought. It's as simple as that.
Anyway.... there is an independent up there who does not understand the difference between an inexperienced VP and Obama. All I can do is drop my jaw reading this kind of nonsense. Obama has been a busy man not only career-wise, but academically. He has a thirst for knowledge that is phenomenal, Palin can't name a single paper or magazine she has read. She wasn't even fast enough mentally to say"ADN" or something like that. Obama made it through Harvard and he taught constitutional law. Palin does not even understand the basics of civics. Obama has conducted a phenomenal campaign, even the Republicans (the honest ones, they are far and few between) are saying that, and he has done so against far greater odds than he or his campaign ever says. It has by and large been a very positive campaign. And if that says anything about his presidency, then it's all good.
For those who are still undecided, just look at McCain's leadership.... he not only flips and flops, he flaps and flits as well. He lies, invents, he uses McCarthy-like attacks (so does Palin) that are so out of date they only work with those who are still pining for the 1950s. Anyway If you are still undecided, then please buy some navigation equipment for your car. It no longer has to do with the candidates, it has to do with you.
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#17
Sounds as if you might be right... Looking further into the story, there may be method to the madness after all.
Newsweek suggests that if (when) McCain bites the dust, Palin will have already distanced herself from him. His loss would be her gain and a way to boost herself to the far right base.
It'll work. They won't understand that it was a power play.
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My wife and I just got back from hearing Obama speak at an evening rally in Albuquerque, New Mexico. An estimated 35,000 voters were there (probably an underestimate). Some had been waiting in line for 12 hours to hear Obama speak.
McCain also held a rally in Albuquerque today. The crowd was estimated at 1,500, which appeared to be a gross overestimate (800?), since the small venue where it was held has a much smaller capacity.
There were also qualitative differences between the two crowds. The Obama crowd was well attended by parents with small children in tow, while the McCain crowd had no small children in sight. Family values anyone?
Hmmm...You can fool some of the people some of the time but...
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#32. rwbennett: "Berry's own Grandmother says she was AT HIS BIRTH, IN AFRICA."
Wanna provide a reliable source or link for that? There are lots of accusations still flying around the blogosphere, but I haven't found anything to substantiate what the grandmother may (or may not) have said.
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Krauthammer is a regular FOX contributor. He is certainly more reasonable than many that appear on that fine network. However I find his reasons for McCain support hard to follow and unpersuasive. His personal philosophy is filtering events and facts to suit. But heck - everyone is doing it these days.
The election campaign is basically the job interview from hell with a panel of around 20% of the population (the 'undecideds'. Candidates are under constant, intense pressure. CVs are read - but ultimately the choice is made on how well the candidates deal with the job interview pressure.
Obama may be young and inexperienced, however he appears to me to be handling himself extraordinary well under the unforgiving glare of this campaign. He comes across as calm, honorable, informed and intelligent. He seems to be his own man, and his ability to smoothly present his ideas stems from the fact that they ARE his own ideas, and that he actually believes in them. Right now - that seems to have more weight than actually WHAT those ideas really are - since the economic and philosophical dictinctions between most parties these days is insignificant.
Being older and more experienced doens't equal better. A country wants the leader that is right for the times. That McCain has been often right in the context of the states of the past 25 years doesn't make him the right person to lead the country forwards. Given how badly wrong many feel this direction has been - it probably disqualifies him. Obama's inexperience is being interpreted by many as 'untainted'.
Not that Mr Krauthammer is likely to see it this way. It means denying the Republican legacy. What many non US citizens fervently hope is that Obama will be the fresh start we've all been waiting for. Rather than elect a leader who is experienced at 'kicking ass', for once the states might elect someone who will reflect on the following:
"What is it that we (the states) do that incites so many to dislike/ hate us?
What is that we have done to cause the global economic crisis?
What is it that we have done to create global warming?
If Obama has this focus then not only will the states be a healthier place - it will also be a safer and better liked place as well.
Mr Krauthammer would I think elect a president better suited to addressing the symptoms, not the cause of the major issues the world and the states faces today.
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#46. british-ish: "Used car salesmen. Yes. Never could remember them."
Don't you think that's what McCain is - touting the excellence of a pre-owned policy and saying it's like new? John McCain is today's Cal Worthington and Sarah Palin is his dog, Spot. (Probably unknown to British readers, but a long-standing fixture of late night TV in Southern California - this isn't the cultural oasis it's made out to be!)
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In my view it's so transparent that the McCain camp really thought that people would not care about the VP pick because in general, they don't ever really decide an election. The problem here is that, McCain is 72 years old. Is America is finally using some cognitive thinking skills and doing the math? If he for some reason can't serve as president then… oh no, Palin is president. This thought terrifies me. The fact people try to compare Obama and Palin in terms of experience I think is way out of line. Barack Obama is an extremely intelligent individual. Sarah Palin...not so much. She is also so closed mined I don’t think she would respect the diversity of other customs and cultures in different countries (not that our current president does either). I suspect if the McCain/Palin ticket wins, there will be floods of inquires to Canada and the UK about immigration. I really hope we don't make the same mistake 3 times. I think this could be the most potentially damaging thing to our already ailing country ever.
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There is an underlying drumbeat of continued belligerence to Krauthammer's piece.
He has been anguishing over the McCain campaign for about a month now, and his article was interesting in that he managed to convince himself to write "I'm voting for John McCain" and then found some reasons (mainly perpetual war) to back this up.
I read the article when it was first published and two words came to my mind - "gritted teeth".
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# 61 ~ David C.
As someone has already pointed out, at least McCain would be spared any transitional effort.
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#32, you cannot be serious. This has to be sarcasm, it just has to. Honestly, you do not think this info would have not come out already if it were true? Numerous news agencies went as far as to get his birth certificate. Our self destructive media would have reported this. If you are serious, you are crazy.
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interesting angle on Mccains choice of Palin
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/10/mavericks_tragic_flaw.html
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Love and untogetherness makes me think of love and togetherness. In my lifetime I can think of only two presidents who loved their spouses and whose children were close to them. The first is Harry Truman and his Bess, and the second is Richard Nixon and his Trisha. I like to think that Obama and his Michelle will be the third. Judging by their behavior towards each other it may be. Wouldn't that be nice?
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I am so glad that, after all, it looks like common sense rather than the hockey mums will decide the future (at least the next 4 years) of the entire world.
You Americans are so privileged to be living in a country where you can vote and your votes count. Unfortunately, however, contrary to common belief your choices are very wide apart. This is good because it means you have such a huge scale of option but it is also very dangerous because it means you can also invite disaster.
Things are simpler for us on this side of the world. I am from Iran but live in Europe. In my home country we have a theocratic dictatorship. Dictators or their puppets are chosen for us and then we are asked to vote for them. We can’t really go wrong because whomever we vote for nothing changes we will still have a dictator in place.
But I am all right! I live and vote in a democracy in Europe. But because of the interwoven political and economical system in Europe, all the candidates we vote for simply have to follow a commonsensical economic, political, cultural, …. pattern. So we can afford to vote for a candidate based on his or her hair style and still know that we couldn’t have gone far off the target. Whoever is elected will have to naturally fit in the commonly accepted system.
The position of the leader and commander in chief of the United States of America, still perhaps the only superpower, is very different simply because the ability of a single individual to impact the course of history. Both domestic and international. Just imagine how different the world would be today if we had eight years of Gore instead of the second Bush! I am not saying we wouldn’t have any of the problems but just think how different it would all be. It has been said before but worth repeating that if Bush was the president during the Cuban missile crisis we would have already had our third world war then. I guess that means, we’d be now going for our fourth. World war! Yuk!.
So, hockey mums: Wee’r gonna just survive under our dictatorships and democracies. In our democracies on this side of the world we are almost guaranteed that we won’t be able to put a wacko in a position of power. But things can be different in your case voting for one of the most powerful individuals in the entire world. Please be careful and don’t vote for someone just because he or she talks like you or their kids play hockey like yours. Just think what could happen if next time this Puttin guy pops his head up the American air space and sees your governor winking at him like she was on her debate night. It could be totally misunderstood and we would be on our way to our third world war, or is it fourth? And you know what, our kids wouldn’t be able to play hockey or football, I mean soccer anymore. Please be careful and from the bottom of our hearts, good luck electing America.
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#65. ladycm: #32, you cannot be serious. . . Numerous news agencies went as far as to get his birth certificate."
Not quite true - as I understand it, what has been produced is a certified entry, in other words, a copy, not the original "long form" which gives more details. It's that which has set the conspiracy-theorists going. You only have to Google something like 'Obama birth certficate' and you'll find thousands of entries. The writer at #32 apparently believes many or all of these, along with the lawyer who has spearheaded the "movement", Philip Berg.
Mr Berg has had rather a set back and now intends to pursue the issue in the Supreme Court. My guess is that the action will be tossed out, which will have the unfortunate effect of adding to the conspiracy theory and adding fuel to #32's fire. These are the same kind of people who said "Paul is dead" and that there were multiple marksmen involved in the death of JFK.
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The argument that Palin has not had real opportunities and media have been biased is deeply flawed.
McCain made a strategic blunder expecting Palin to draw in women voters that would previously have voted for Hillary Clinton. Palin has had many media opportunities, but most times she blew it. Her most recent blunder was her presentation suggesting that spending public money on research of fruit flies did not serve the public interest. People are waking up to the idea that she is qualified and experienced and her popularity is decreasing day by day.
Again and again in interviews, she does not answer questions but instead responds with the same tag lines. She offers no vision nor takes a political position. She uses populist rhetoric which work well with people whose mindset is limited and who would believe anything that confirms their limited view of the world, but which scares the hell out of moderates.
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66, moderate.
According to Saturday's NYT, it was McCain's brilliant aides who came up with Palin. They then brought her to Arizona and he agreed.
I got the impression that at the outset of the campaign McCain made all the decisions. It was later that he was swayed by his advisors. That doesn't show sense, does it?
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More thoughts on Krauthammer.
He rather lets the cat out of the bag towards the end of his article by stating that Obama responded to Georgia "with even handed moral equivalence urging restraint on all sides" whereas McCain "did not have to consult his advisers to instantly identify the aggressors."
Well aware that the situation was not nearly as clear cut as McCain's kneejerk analysis, Europe moved very quickly to defuse the situation.
McCain's reaction was another example of the Neocon philosophy of "Act first, think later" (Sunnis and Shias, anyone) whereas Obama, who seems to be several steps ahead of the current administration in the intelligence he receives, was insightful and measured.
As David Cunard says, when Joe Biden spoke of testing times to come, he was only stating the obvious. Why on earth he should be accused of making a gaffe when he was talking as an adult to adults ? Is all political campaigning carried out through baby talk these days ?
Krauthammer, who effectively tells his readers to ignore the global financial meltdown and support the warmonger, spouts nothing but discredited infantile Neocon philosophy.
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More and more lies and misleading "information" from the gop campaign. So many have expressed sorrow for mcant being swayed by the gop machine. Wake up people he is 72, old enough to make up his own mind. He has authorized a despicable negative campaign and should be punished not pitied. The attack dog with lipstick has been proven what many believed at the beginning of the campaign, a stupid, inexperienced liar. Her inability to answer simple questions proves this. The campaign obviously didn't vet her, just chose her for political gain and it has come back to bite them. Palin is a disgrace to all Americans and Alaska can have her back November 5. Could the gop be considering her in their future leadership possibilities, I hope so it spells their doom. Mcant seems to wish he could distance himself from her stupidity but he is stuck with her.
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I just had to tune in from my travels to see
what is transpiring on Justin's weblog.
I cannot help but reflect upon how inaccurately
the BBC and their correspondents understand
what is actually happening here.
Cloaked in this fuzzy sounding statement
is the fact that part of the 3rd infantry division
is being pulled back from Iraq to deal with possible
civil insurrection. Considering how overstretched
our forces are at this moment, someone at
the Pentagon is preparing for the worst.
I have never seen my country as divided as it
is at this moment - and what the pundits in DC
don't seem to understand is that we are on the
verge of civil unrest, or perhaps even civil war.
Obama is way too far to the left to be acceptible
to large parts of the country, and, likewise, there
are those who would find McCain to be equally
unacceptable.
Personally, I am opposed to violence, but I fear
that we are not far from things getting way out
of hand.
Really, Justin, you should get out more. How
can you have studied us so thoroughly, and
know so little about us?
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And, I would just like to highlight a passage from
the link that I included in my previous post, which
goes:
"The 1st BCT’s soldiers also will learn how to use “the first ever nonlethal package that the Army has fielded,” 1st BCT commander Col. Roger Cloutier said, referring to crowd and traffic control equipment and nonlethal weapons designed to subdue unruly or dangerous individuals without killing them."
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I'm enjoying Schadenfreude at the moment. A very cuddly Schadenfreude. For your amusement - please read David Frum's Washington Post column titled "Sorry, Senator. Let's Salvage What We Can" and then read the comments.
Louise
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Dear Mr.Webb,
I have been following the Election and your
notes are quite helpful in knowing what the
Amercians think about the Candidates.
It was too naive of the Republicans .Senator
Mc Cain to select The Governor of Alaska.
Many upsets could happen from now and D-Day-but the country needed a better experienced and qualified person- who once
-reportedly- was sympathetic to the idea of
Alaska ceceding from U.S.A.
Was this the Senator and party think of the
Best Choice for American People.
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#75 gunsandreligion
There's an update at the bottom of your link saying that they got that bit wrong.
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ref #70
Of course Palin was a cynical pick and it worked for the first month. but Biden was as well.
Biden does not share many of Obams core values.
I keep hearing that Obama went to Harvard and ran such a great campaign. True but there are two areas that his supporters refuse to acknowledge or treat with disdain.
His far left record:
Income redistribution
Removal of secreat ballot for Union elections
(Even George McGovern opposes)
Cut and run in Iraq (He wanted to)
No cap on Trial lawyer fees
A U.N lead foriegn policy (look at who his advisors are)
No going against party on any major issue(Judicial nominees, the Iraq liberation, etc)
His lack of resume: No major legislative accomplishments
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The interviews have been awful: that's not media bias, it's incompetence…
That’s partly true, Justin, but there is no doubt that the left wing media pounced on Palin’s errors with delight while brushing aside those of Biden. Anyone who wants proof of the BBC’s anti-Palin bias need only look at the Newsnight show that bashed her with gloves off after her very first appearance on the US stage and before any of the gaffes. It was almost as if a memo went out. Perhaps it did. Actually it’s more likely that it was simply the pack instinct kicking in. A pro-life Christian Republican with a pregnant teenage daughter? Let’s go, guys!
It was an absolute disgrace. And it set the tone for all subsequent BBC coverage of Palin. Well, I guess it’s a little late now for the BBC to make amends. Not that it would want to.
8 georgereillylives
That’s a fine summing up of the issues and the media bias.
4 british-ish
So 9/11 would be, what, 'an apocalypse'?
It’s a fairly simple concept. Use of the word “tragedy” implies that it was unavoidable and blameless like the loss of life during a natural disaster, e.g. an earthquake. Krauthammer is quite right. It is the kind of terminology used by those on the left who are pickled in multi-culti PC. 9/11 was not a tragedy. It was an atrocity.
Misleading PC terminology, introduced by the social engineers of the left, has swept the western world like a virus. As an example, suspects in Britain are no longer interrogated but interviewed by police who have been transformed from a force into a service.
But the worst of it, of course, is the use of militants to describe terrorists. When I last looked, militants were trade unionists who picketed factories or students involved in an uprising, not those who strap bombs to mentally disturbed women and blow them up by remote control in crowded markets in the name of ‘God’. The BBC is in the forefront of this mangling of the English language to serve a highly suspect political purpose.
20 AsaScot
Your continual attacks on Magickirin over the vote are getting a bit tiresome. Are you going to disregard everything Obama ever says because he thinks there are 57 states in the US? Would you be that unforgiving when it comes to him? Thought not.
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And what's the point of removing duhbuh's post after Justin linked to it?
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John McCain has made the biggest blunder in his political career. Choice of a versatile running mate is critical to the success of an election campaign. McCain evidently chose the wrong person and will regret this decision. The Republicans have a pool of capable leaders but now the dice has been thrown and McCain will realise his greatest mistake. Obama has made mistakes too. Perhaps Hillary Clinton would have been a far better choice than Joe Biden. Strange things happen in politics! But who would have thought that George Bush would have beaten Al Gore in 2000? Election results sometimes defy real intentions of voters!
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Surely criticism of Palin is not just about experience. On those grounds, yes, you could also criticise Obama. But it's also about intelligence, articulacy, thoughtfulness and knowledge; Palin has shown herself to be ignorant and superficial in her interviews, reminding me of some of George W. Bush's cringeworthy interviews before he was elected, except that hers have been worse (in one, she failed to name a single newspaper that she reads; her main point appeared to be that newspapers get delivered to Alaska, too).
Sure, Bush had experience. Bush was a governor. Does that mean he was a good choice? No. Because he's incompetent, ignorant, lazy, superficial, lacking in intellectual curiosity, a bad judge of character and he overvalues simplistic concepts like loyalty.
Palin is George W. Bush in a skirt.
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From the horse's mouth
Roll On November 5th!Peace to all
ed
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I don't accept Justin Webb's defence. I believe he and his colleagues have allowed their own prejudices (against devout white conservative Christians from the less fashionable areas of America) to colour their election coverage. One need only look back through Webb's blog to see his readiness to invoke internet lies and rumours, or the half-baked opinions of pop psychologists, to get a clear picture of his dislike for Palin. Most BBC journalists appear to share this sneering, superior attitude towards the Alaskan governor. The Michael S Malone article I reference in my comment linked above (currently "referred to the moderators") actually states that it's the adulatory nature of Obama's media coverage rather than the savagery of the attacks on Palin which is so objectionable and I note Justin doesn't address this double standard. The BBC has literally dozens of journalists covering the presidential election, and yet over the course of this campaign story after story damaging to the Democrat cause has been ignored totally or covered with anguished, foot-dragging reluctance. If there's a sniff of something embarrassing to the Republican ticket the BBC hacks are falling over themselves in the rush to comment.
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78.
#75 gunsandreligion
There's an update at the bottom of your link saying that they got that bit wrong.
What surprises me about that (I suppose it shouldn't) is that 'non lethal crowd control' training is apparently a novelty in the US army.
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Oh this is getting boring, "you are all so nasty to Palin because she is a woman". NO WE ARE NOT it is simple down to the fact that she is so dumb, have you heard any of her carefully controlled and vetted interviews? She is utterly clueless, goodness only knows how she very got elected to anything, perhaps journalists in Alaska are even more supine than those in the rest of the US.
In Europe woman leaders are not uncommon, we have, (and have had) some great ones, their sex does not come into it their ability does.
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# 79
Since you claim that Biden "does not share any of Obama's core values" I ask you to look at the TV clip of Biden responding to Florida anchor Barbara West (an anchor after your own heart, I expect).
The clip can be found on the despiesed Huffington Post.
Have a look at it, and then tell us all again that Joe does not support the Obama ideals.
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Anchorage Daily News Endorses Obama!
Shouldn't that be "Holy Moose"?Peace and Moose Nuggets
ed
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Pity American voters!
Their choise is lousy : on the one hand a candidate with negligeable experience who will be totally dependent on the team he chooses. Is the choise of a nonentity (Biden) a good one? Or will Michelle rule from the back seat? As long as he sticks just to PR then he will be OK. But what will happen in a crisis when real leadership and rational proactive decision making is required? I lived through the Cuban missile crisis as a 16 year old in London, England, when we were all terrified by the incompetent gung-ho leadership of the Kennedy administration "playing with fire" following on from their Bay of Pigs debacle.
On the other hand the Republican candidate who has a proven track record but has made a poor choise in his number two. Added to that 8 years of Republican leadership which has proven itself to be grossly incompetent.
Is the choise of a President of the USA simply a matter of lowest common denominator of ineptitude and empty words?
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Ed : Sunday newspaper report
Excellent spread in the Observer (online) on Obama "As We Knew Him" which might be worth putting up ?
MRG
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Having worked in the USA and have friends and family living in that great Country I do get worried about their insular attitude.
The brain washing almost from birth that the USA is the most democratic country on earth is just sheer ludicrous. Why even the voting system is archaic and out of touch with a modern day society.
I do worry as a European why there is a lack of understanding about the need for for the USA to demonstrate they understand what extreme right politics can do to corrupt a Nation. The Republican are trying to confuse what they call European Socialism with Communism which Europe completely rejected. I understood Socialism to mean, that Socialists mainly share the belief that capitalism unfairly concentrates power and wealth among a small segment of society that controls capital and creates an unequal society. When I look around the USA I do see such diversion of power and wealth which many could define as also being rather unchristian. I beg my friends in the USA to put aside their prejudices and vote for a President that will be a man of the people and not big business or the gun lobby which frightens me to death.
I pray you do make the right decision, at least the polls suggest you are
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Ref 79
"True but there are two areas that his supporters refuse to acknowledge or treat with disdain."
Magic, this Obama supporter is delighted to acknowledge the need to raise the taxes of those that make over $250K a year to help balance the federal budget and provide desperately needed services such as universal healthcare, repairing our infrastructure, and improving our education system. The first would not only help every segment of our society, but would lessen the operating costs of American corporations making them more competitive. The second is essential to our national security. The third should be our top priority, and would allow us to meet the challenges of the 21st century and maintain our global might.
I realize that helping every segment of the population is anathema to Republican orthodoxy and is so ingrained in the psyche of the right wing that they honestly can't conceive the idea that some people actually advocate heping those who are struggling to make ends meet (the mythical Joe the Plumber notwithstanding), but trust me when I tell you that many of us do support those policies and that we are convinced that helping the middle class is the best approach to help our country overcome the socio-economic problems we are facing.
As for Obama's advisors, I am very comfortable with his decision to have so many Clinton Cabinet members and advisors in his team, as well as renowned Republicans such as Colin Powell and Susan Eisenhower. That is certainly a lot better than being in the company of lobbysts such as Rick Davis whose only achievement was to help Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
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One interesting point encouraged by the photo is the superficiality of this and all other US elections I can remember. The way it seems to be as much about the look and the personality as the policy, something that has been increasingly seeping over here to Britain. It seems to me, however, that Obama has made a real point of trying to make it about more than this, recall the quote "what they don't understand is that it is not about me, it is about you". In my opinion anyway.
And to #79: like so many following this election you don't seem to understand the concept of 'left and right'. Only your first point is characteristic of the left, but this is actually true of John McCain as well; no cap on trail lawyer fees would be indicative of the right; while the rest of your points are unrelated to either the left or the right. Obama is pretty near the center ground, an oxymoronic 'socio-capitolist', while McCain is a long way to the right, with the rest of the US siting mostly between the two.
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80: oh dear, so using the word tragedy to describe 9/11 is PC? is atrocity the only way to describe it. Are you suggesting that there is a BBC led/liberal/PC campaign do downgrade 9/11 to the status of an accident? How offensive! Might I suggest that no words can truely describe the horror of that day. I myself have described it as a tragedy, that in no way implies or suggests that it was'n't a deliberate intentional act ....
Sometimes I just want to give up.
btw, once you wingnuts get over the birthcertificate/media bias/guilt by association/muslim/he's going to take away your guns etc garbage, and start looking at why the McCain ticket is really tanking in the polls, maybe we can have some proper political discourse.
For starters what is McCain proposing that is any different from the Bush administration, I'd be really interested. So would the American public too!
The GOP is losing and it is not because of media bias.
sad
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Ref 82
I agree that Sarah Palin is a horrible choice for VP, but I am not convinced that she has affected McCain's chances to win in November. In fact, I think he remains competitive because of her. Palin's appeal to Republican social conservatives is undeniable and it is evident in the enthusiasm shown by party loyalists. The base of the Republican party has never been too impressed with John McCain, but they love Sarah Palin. All you have to do is look at the huge turnouts at her rallies and compare them with the dismal numbers that show up at McCain's...
Fortunately, this election will not be decided by right or left wing party loyalists, but by the Independents and moderates of both parties who are leaning for Obama.
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A counter view to Dubbuh at # 85 from American journalist Keith Richburg in today's UK Observer :
"And all Americans should pause from the heated political rhetoric and reflect on the sense of accomplishment, win or lose, that his candidacy represents - an affirmation of the American dream".
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would like to add more, but despite living in the socialist paradise that is the UK I have to go to work
keep smiling y'all : )
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#74 and 75 - Guns
This article you link too scares the living daylights out of me, and should also out of any sane American. Buried in amongst all the talk of active military units helping out in the event of terrorism or natural disaster is the mission statement that the army could be sent into civilian situations.
From the article "They may be called upon to help with civil unrest and crowd control"
This is nothing other than preparation to impose martial law in the event of civil unrest.
What might cause such civil unrest?
Off the top of my head, I would get someone to look at all those voting machines .....
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89 lol cheers ed
now I feel better : )
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Ref 85
"I believe he and his colleagues have allowed their own prejudices (against devout white conservative Christians from the less fashionable areas of America) to colour their election coverage."
Are you suggesting the media should ignore the cries to assassinate a candidate, or claims that Obama is an Arab (read Muslim), a terrorist, socialist, communist and the carrier of influenza viruses?
True Christian conservatism, in my opinion, entails emulating the life of Jesus and adhering to his teachings. What the right wing fanatics are advocating is more in line with anti-Christ dogma than with what Christ taught humanity.
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#83 Englishmaninmadrid
"Sure, Bush had experience. Bush was a governor. Does that mean he was a good choice? No. Because he's incompetent, ignorant, lazy, superficial, lacking in intellectual curiosity, a bad judge of character and he overvalues simplistic concepts like loyalty.
Palin is George W. Bush in a skirt."
I beg to differ .... Bush was a well-educated East-Coast son of a wealthy family. He lost his first run at being Governor as he was perceived as being too elitist (well, it's actually true). You do all know the Bushes are not from Texas I hope!
His image was then remade for him, to make him more folksie, and therefore electable. Bush is a man who sold his own intellect down the river for power, and became a puppet of the neo-cons.
I remember very early in his presidency reading a comment about GW Bush .... "People think George W is both nice and stupid. Wrong - he isn't nice and he isn't stupid!"
The reason I disagree with you is not to defend Bush, but to draw attention to the difference between them.
Palin is not nice, and is stupid. She has no place in office.
Palin however does have low cunning and is using the strong faith of many Americans to propel her towards more power. ... and is now even distancing herself from McCain (see various links on previous posts re comments from McCain's advisor)
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Not a coherent point in the whole article.
Doesn anyone take this fool seriously anymore?
Contrarian? - he has defended privilege and the status quo for years.
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80. TrueToo wrote:
"Misleading PC terminology, introduced by the social engineers of the left, has swept the western world like a virus. As an example, suspects in Britain are no longer interrogated but interviewed by police who have been transformed from a force into a service."
And so they should be. Our police are now called a 'service' because after several particularly nasty examples of it over the last 20-odd years, it reminds us (and them) 'force' is not what we expect police to use against citizens.
Since Robert Peel, the British police have been by and large clearly distinguishable from the armed forces. Though even they (in that situation we know formally as giving 'aid to the civil power') are expected to behave more like policemen than soldiers.
Similar reservations apply to the word 'interrogation'.
The word 'interview" implies the civilised constraints on behaviour that we expect in our democracy now.
May I remind you of other, more worrying 'redefinitions'? Like "torture' (redefined as physical ill treatment which results in death) and 'enemy combatants' instead of 'prisoners of war' to get around the Geneva Conventions.
Perhaps you don't know either of the origins of the word 'rendition' (as in extraordinary rendition')? It was the word used once to describe the forcible return of escaped slaves to their owners.
The latter terms are of course, devised by "those on the left who are pickled in multi-culti PC" and are "Misleading PC terminology, introduced by the social engineers of the left".
Language is not legislated, nor dictated, whatever you may think. If a word and its meaning are not commonly accepted, or lose their social context, they cease to be used. (That's the meaning of 'obs.' in the dictionaries.)
As to 'militant', does the phrase "The Church Militant" ring any bells? I think we can, mostly distinguish between a 'miltant' and a 'terrorist' or 'suicide bomber' as easily as we can between an "interview" and an "interrogation".
Oh, by the way, the use of 'militant' to describe trade unionists was 'engineered' by the Thatcher government (notorious 'social engineers of the left') in an attempt to gain political capital and support for anti-union legislation and action. The word in common use until then had been 'activist', and that has been returned to its proper use recently.
Clearly, you do not agree with the social milieu in which I live and in which these words, and the concepts that inform them are in common use.
But I can never see the point of this kind of post in a blog about the American presidential election.
Are you trying to hold people like me (and my opinions) up to the American electorate as examples of what is in store for them if a Democrat is elected president? If so, for the benefit of the world at large (see http://www.foreignpolicy.com/gallup/) I'd like to encourage you to even greater efforts :-)
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forgot about the clocks going back so I have a little more time. I'll ask again: what is McCain going to do that is really any different from the Bush administration, apart from just saying he will be? I suggested on a previous post a possible winning strategy for the GOP - I really do think they could have been competitive - but strategic and tactical errors have now made it almost impossible. If they lose it is purely through their own doing ...
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Palin as president, two scenarios:
1) She is a puppet merely doing what her advisors tell her to (guess who the advisors would be?)
2) She is a maverick, and makes major foreign policy decisions on the hoof without regard to her advisors or the state department
either is scary ...
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Please, please let McCain win. I would love to hear the collective choking and spluttering of the Barack Broadcasting Corporation. Is Justin Webb on the Obama payroll?
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89:
Better to hear it direct from the moose's mouth, as it were.
http://www.adn.com/opinion/view/story/567867.html
". . .few who have worked closely with the governor would argue she is truly ready to assume command of the most important, powerful nation on earth. To step in and juggle the demands of an economic meltdown, two deadly wars and a deteriorating climate crisis would stretch the governor beyond her range."
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Here's an idea....
Let the British Interviewer Jeremy Paxman have 30 minutes of live interview with each candidate, asking only policy questions, but with no pre-approved "question list" (that's how it's done in many other countries) and we'll see who comes out well.
Anyone who wants to be President should have a working knowledge of domestic and global issues, and be able to discuss them coherently.
For the non-British .. Jeremy Paxman is renowned as a hard interviewer who puts people on the spot - politicians of all parties. He once on live TV asked a politician the same simple question 14 times. Each time the politician ducked out of answering so Paxman simply restated the original question He couldn't answer truthfully, as it would be admission of an illegal act of interference (cf troopergate), but if he lied he'd surely have been caught later.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uwlsd8RAoqI
That's what political interviews should be like .... challenging the politicians of all parties. If they do not stand up to scrutiny then all that is left is spin.
Peace and scrutiny
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It is this kind of policking that characterizes the McCampaign
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/10/25/mccain_makes_hay_of_obama_inau.html
you can add the fake attack on McCain campaign worker and many others
a campaign bereft of ideas ...
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"Moreover, the most remarkable of all tactical choices of this election season is the attack that never was. Out of extreme (and unnecessary) conscientiousness, McCain refused to raise the legitimate issue of Obama's most egregious association -- with the race-baiting Rev. Jeremiah Wright. Dirty campaigning, indeed."
Krauthammer equates what McCain isn't saying as his most remarkable tactical choice? How about the fact that McCain hasn't said anything about the colour of Obama's skin, is that remarkable too?
When an argument refers to what wasn't said and praises it as a tactical decision, the list of such praiseworthy tactical decisions is essentially endless.
"who refers to the most deliberate act of war since Pearl Harbor as "the tragedy of 9/11," a term more appropriate for a bus accident?"
When a group of Islamic radicals fly planes into buildings it does not constitute an act of war, it constitutes an act of terrorism and should be treated (and reported) as such. 9/11 was a tragedy, and so is a bus accident - were the former an act of war, it would still be tragic, would it not?
"Obama's own running mate warned this week that Obama's youth and inexperience will invite a crisis -- indeed a crisis "generated" precisely to test him."
Do I even need to remind anyone here of how blatantly out of context this remark has been taken? Yes, Biden's comments were clumsy, but amuses me is that Palin's remarks don't even need to be used in the wrong context for shock value.
I could go on, but I still haven't read a convincing argument for McCain-Palin.
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95 selfevidenttruths
I'll tell you when we can have some "proper political discourse." When you guys on the left manage to make two comments in a row without sneering at your opponents and anyone else who doesn't think alike. You might have noticed that I haven't sneered at you.
Yes, words matter. Journalists know that more than most people.
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british-ish, you could add ,collateral damage'
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# 105 self evident :
As I wrote further back, at least if he wins McCain won't have to bother with all that annoying transition kerfuffle. It'll just be business as usual.
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#104 british-ish ..... great link to the "if the World could vote" site. Thanks.
Interesting that in both Saudi Arabia and Lebanon Obama polled 50% - McCain 18/19% and don't know 30%.
Are the McCain voters suicidal, arms dealers or just recruiters for al-Qaeda?
Here's the link again
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/gallup/
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ref #93
First Dominick I am registered independent.
What I resent is that the 40% of Americans who do not pay income taxes get a handout.
Also McCain's plan is more generous to small business in deductions we would be able to take.
His foriegn policy advisors at one time or maybe still include Samantha Powers an extreme leftist and Robert Mallory who supports the Palestinians over Israel and has lied in stating that Arafat did not sabotage the peace plan when Clinton was in office.
I note that no one has answered my question on major accomplishments in office.
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#80 TrueToo:
"20 AsaScot
Your continual attacks on Magickirin over the vote are getting a bit tiresome. Are you going to disregard everything Obama ever says because he thinks there are 57 states in the US? Would you be that unforgiving when it comes to him? Thought not."
If Obama was as consistently inaccurate, inept, and just plain wrong as Magic Kirin, then I wouldn't support him. Also if he was given to making unsubstantiated allegations, like sayng someone thought there were 57 US states without offering a shred of evidence, I would regard him as low and despicable.
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Truetoo I am not sneering at you, and if it seemed that way I am sorry, by the way I would consider myself mildly left of center and somewhat of a libertarian. There is no party American or British that I find consistent with my political philosophy. I am distrustful of government and I think everyone should be, however they are sadly unavoidable.
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107.Renidrag wrote:
"Please, please let McCain win. I would love to hear the collective choking and spluttering of the Barack Broadcasting Corporation."
The BBC would no doubt report on the reaction of British citizens, as reflected in the Gallup poll I posted a link to at the end of post 104.
I don't suppose we'll be flying flags (with blue, white and red crosses or just plain black -- take that how you like!) at half-mast outside our homes (not something we do much anyway except at coronations) or draping black crepe over the mirrors, but I suspect a majority of us will be looking rather sad, concerned, and thoughtful in the streets on November 5th. At least until we set light to the bonfires and the fireworks and tuck into the baked spuds.
Then we'll settle back and watch BBC documentaries on meeses, the decline of polar bears, the massacre of wolves from helicopters, the retreat of the polar icecap, the risks of drilling for oil in Alaska, the effects of bombing Iran or Pakistan, the restrictions on gay rights and abortion in the USA, the inability to help fix the economic crisis, the equal inability to do anything sensible about global warming, . . .
It's going to be terribly depressing.
Sorry, I know you don't like the idea, but that's just how it is. Well, for six-and-a-bit out of ten of us, anyway.
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eighty 105 - sad but true I think, and what do you think of my post 106?
work, must dash, tally ho!
peace to all combatants
: )
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Truetoo, I did'n't mean to imply you are a 'wingnut', but you have to admit there are a few pretty wild posters about. I can handle differences of political opinion but slurs, innuendo, and misreporting/twisting of fact is not political debate. This is a general comment by the way. I am not accusing you of such.
Still disagree about your statement vis a vis 9/11 - respectfully
work beckons, peace
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# 112 Too True
When you wrote at 8.41 a.m. today that Obama has a "long history of rubbing shoulders with communists and like minded subversives" some of us got the idea that you might be a wee bit biased.
May I suggest that you go online to today's UK Observer magazine and look up "Obama as we knew him".
This is a comprehensive piece of interviews with people who have known him throughout all the stages of his life.
In impressing all these friends and relatives as well as indulging in communism, socialism, fascism, atheism, islamism and rubbing shoulders with like minded subversives, whilst all the time building a career within the Democratic party, Obama must truly be superman
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115/RomeStu
Be careful posting stats like that! Remember how right-wing conservative logic works:
Obama is popular in Lebanon/Saudi Arabia
Lebanon/Saudi Arabia is full of terrorists
Ergo, Obama is a terrorist sympathiser.
Or even worse...
Lebanon/Saudi Arabia is full of Moslems
Most Moslems are terrorists
Ergo, Obama is a terrorist sympathiser.
(And probably a Moslem)
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Yes, the picture sums up the election. Obama lied to McCain and pulled a U turn regarding accepting public campaign contributions. Much of which has come from overseas. The GOP has just filed suit on this matter.
As such Obama has double the advertising budget.
Obama appeals to the young and is motivating this demographic. (And we all know how smart the young are, right?)
This is American Idol. Obama's economic plan has zero prospects of reviving the economy.
Taxing the industrious top 5%. Increasing tax burdens on companies and increasing capital gains tax is the road to the gutter. America already has the second highest corporate tax in the world.
Obama's a socialist - and his effects will further drive down American spending power and, drive down the prosperity of the worlds exporters.
We need reduced corporate tax and capital gains tax to encourage intelligent people to bring new technologies and inventions to the table. America needs to actually INVENT and PRODUCE things again. And we need an experienced commander in chef to ensure a stable environment to operate in.
McCain is the perfect choice to make this happen.
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Justin, Justin, Justin,
Biden has made gaffe after gaffe after gaffe after gaffe, yet you are obsessed about attacking Sarah Palin.
How about reporting about how the Obama campaign refusing to be interviewed by TV stations that ask them difficult questions[http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_tv_tvblog/2008/10/obama-campaign.html].
I suspect if McCain had done it you would be reporting it.
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British ~ you're in excellent form this morning.
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115. RomeStu:
You post made me look at that Gallup poll again. Quite a large proportion of South America seems to be for McCain, too. That's odd. Given the history. Though Gallup didn't poll Venezuela . . .I wonder why?
I suppose Pakistan at 91 per cent for McCain is understandable, given Obama's desire to bomb them. I'm not too keen on that side of his foreign policy myself. I'm just trusting that he will get a bit more sensible about that.
113. selfevidenttruths wrote:
"british-ish, you could add 'collateral damage'."
I suppose I could add to the thoughtless, unnecessary and amoral additional carnage involved in bombing civilians, yes. Once upon a time, that referred to 'accidental damage as a result of offensive action' implying some kind of regret. It seems to be used now to describe an inevitable concomitant of any military action simply becasue it takes no account of the value of human life.
112. TrueToo wrote:
"Yes, words matter. Journalists know that more than most people."
I'm getting a little angry, now, at being constantly accused of merely 'sneering' (an easy way to dismiss someone's arguments and opinions) and I'm going to give away my profession. We do. We even try to understand concepts, even explain them, sometimes.
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79/116 MagicKirin
OK we'll play your game.
Far left voting record - indeed. Obama is a liberal, he won't say it out loud because the word scares some nervous people, but his voting record speaks for itself.
He's a liberal, and most Americans who are voting are voting for him. Perhaps they think that the conservative values of the last 8 years espoused by Bush and McCain in near-perfect unity finally need some counterbalancing. Looking at the recent financial crisis and Bush/McCain's response, even Bush and McCain recognise that the right aren't always right and sometimes ideas from the left are necessary.
Lack of legislative achievement - indeed. No big successses to point to, unlike McCain. And no big failures to point to, unlike McCain. He has only been in the Senate a tiny fraction of the time of McCain. His blank resume may be of grave concern to you, but again, the American people have looked at his resume (maybe some have even read his books!) and most that are voting will be voting for him.
Inexperience should not disqualify one from office. Of course it is one factor which voters may wish to consider, and may be decisive if there are not several other factors to which they attach more weight which incline them to vote in favour of the new guy. Your history is littered with inexperienced Presidents made good.
Besides, isn't the whole inexperience argument cancelled out by the ageing McCain's selection of a governer with just one full year in office as his backup?
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123.
StephenDerry: "Be careful posting stats like that! Remember how right-wing conservative logic works"
I thought you were on our side? Don't give them ideas! You know full well they'd never have thought that up for themselves!
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Justin, it is entirely appropriate that you should link to Krauthammer as an example of the type of person who is supporting McCain. Krauthammer is a Zionist neocon supporter who would endorse anyone who he thought would back Israel's appalling treatment of the Palestinians.
I see McCain's support mainly coming from:- Zionists, right wing religious zealots, the beligerant and racists. Apologies if I have left anyone out who belongs to other narrow minded and ill informed groups.
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Palin's puck dropping proving dangerous
Beat me in St. Louie
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I love this photo! I hope these are still here when I am in Washington next week :P
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125. TheFirstRalph wrote:
"Justin, Justin, Justin,
Biden has made gaffe after gaffe after gaffe after gaffe, yet you are obsessed about attacking Sarah Palin."
I'll try to explain. Sarah Palin is much funnier. So are Mooses, meece, or whatever. And witches. It's irresistible. We like funny. (Oh, he sighs, if only Spitting Image was still around . . .)
What's funny about Joe Biden? He just says things that are gormless. Anybody can do that.
(Actually, Governor Palin is frightening. We need the fun to take our minds off the scary stuff. Joe Biden with his 'international crisis test' is also a bit scary, but mostly just ridiculous and clumsy.)
But why don't you criticise the Anchorage Daily News? They've written much the same in an editorial. A pretty damaging one, I'd have thought. And not even funny.
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# 125
I have written before this morning about this interview. It is on Huffpo, fair and square for all to see and shows Biden demolishing the slanted questions that were put to him.
Have a look if you don't believe me.
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oldnat, british-ish, I think that you can probably
assume that the 3rd infantry division's "crowd
control equipment" (which happens to be fairly
sophisticated stuff that no other nation on earth
possesses) can be sent over here on a few
C-5A flights.
Now, go back to sleep, you never saw this.
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Ref 79
"His lack of resume: No major legislative accomplishments"
Sorry Magic, I didn't realize this was a question.
For many of us, Obama's limited exposure to Washington politics is actually a blessing and an important factor in our decision to vote for him. His "resume" consists of domestic and international proposals that he has articulated clearly and without ambiguity since he delivered the keynote speech at the Democratic convention four years ago; most importantly, he has demonstrated leadership qualities and an uncanny ability to inspire hope that have been sorely lacking the past 8 years.
One of the most important requirements to overcome the domestic and global problems we are facing is to restore consumer confidence. Obama may not have answers for all our problems, and his solutions may fall short in some cases, but he inspires hope and confidence in judgment as a result of his decision to surround himself with highly competent individuals and because of his willingness to listen and lead by consensus. The contrast between his proposals and demeanor, and McCain's focus on negativism and the status quo could not be more stark.
McCain is no longer the "maverick" that chided the Bush tax cuts to the wealthiest Americans in 2001, he is no longer the man who opposed off-shore oil drilling, championed environmental protection, criticized the "agents of intolerance", or advocated compassion for illegal immigrants. Today, he is in favor of whatever earns him a few votes, and he is paying the price for his duplicity, poor judgment and unprincipled behavior.
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#112
OK, I'm in.
The global economy economy faces significant challenges right now. There is some debate as to whether a Monetarist or Keynesian approach is best to stabilize the markets, although most governments are currently erring on the side of an interventionist approach. Does this validate center-left economic policies?
That was 3. Your turn.
Civil Sam
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#125 Ralph
"How about reporting about how the Obama campaign refusing to be interviewed by TV stations that ask them difficult questions"
Here is a quote from the article you link to ....
"WFTV-Channel 9's Barbara West conducted a satellite interview with Sen. Joe Biden on Thursday.
West wondered about Sen. Barack Obama's comment, to Joe the Plumber, about spreading the wealth. She quoted Karl Marx and asked how Obama isn't being a Marxist with the "spreading the wealth" comment."
For your information - all taxation is "spreading the wealth".
George W Bush has just spread a vast amount of wealth to prop up the banking and mortgage system. Is he a marxist.
Please stop harping on about marxism and socialism. Read some earlier posts which have accurate definitions. Obama is not a marxist.
Any serious journalist who can ask such a question is a disgrace to the profession.
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124. DameMargaretThatcher wrote:
"America needs to actually INVENT and PRODUCE things again. And we need an experienced commander in chef to ensure a stable environment to operate in."
Your thinking is beyond me. It is not economically possible to 'produce' the things Americans want to buy at WalMart at WalMart prices in the US unless you will all accept being paid a dollar or two a day. Or without hefty government sudsidies like those given to cotton or rice farmers. (Which I would presume you would be against.)
And, I keep asking this, and I have never had an intelligible reply, what has an "experienced commander-in-chief" got to do with it unless you propose to redeploy the US army to man the factories?
Why not restrict eligibility for the presidency to Generals then? Or vote for a military coup? That's the logical conclusion.
Didn't McCain only make Captain anyway? That makes him an "experienced commander-in-chief"? Wouldn't a General like Colin Powell be better?
Oh, perhaps not . . .I forgot for the moment.
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# 137
Thought SNL very limp and thingie wasn't a patch on Michelle.
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DameMargaret Thatcher, you picked a good name for yourself. Thatcher is the one whose obsession with the free market and passion for deregulation started the process which landed us where we are now. Gordon Brown is of course to blame for not doing anything while that process was under way, so I'm not defending him, just pointing out who, so to speak, launched the Titanic.
Obama will "tax the industrious 5%"?
You mean the 5% who pile up their fortunes on the backs of the really industrious multitudes. The pathetic thing is, many of those industrious multitudes will think as you do, and try to vote in more of the same. Happily, it looks as if they will fail.
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Im sure as a politician you must be given the freedom to express your views as you see them.
You will never be given the respect if your deliberately hidden from the media machine.
This only creates a trust problem of what are you trying to hide.
Let the woman speak and have interviews as she sees fit.
Only then can the American people truly make up their minds on the real facts.
I think this has been one of the big failures of the McCain campaign.
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DameMargaretThatcher, TheFirstRalph (was
there a second Ralph?)
You are both right on the money!
But, I predict that the campaign shall change,
and McCain shall get elected by a very small
margin by an eleventh hour surge. The election
will be so close that it will be decided by the
courts.
And, now I must board my flight, I bid adieu.
God bless America, we're going to need His
help for the next few months.
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Oh, and oldnat, british-ish, if you examine the
quote again:
"The 1st BCT’s soldiers also will learn how to use “the first ever nonlethal package that the Army has fielded,” 1st BCT commander Col. Roger Cloutier said, referring to crowd and traffic control equipment and nonlethal weapons designed to subdue unruly or dangerous individuals without killing them."
I believe that the operative phrase is "also will learn
how to use...", thereby contradicting the retraction
at the end of the document.
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Breaking news from this side of the pond!!!
Yesterday, Joe Biden was asked some pogniant questions by Barbara West. After the interview, Obama canceled all further interviews with WFTV.
West wondered about Sen. Barack Obama’s comment, to Joe the Plumber, about spreading the wealth. She quoted Karl Marx and asked how Obama isn’t being a Marxist with the “spreading the wealth” comment.
“Are you joking?” said Biden, who is Obama’s running mate. “No,” West said.
West later asked Biden about his comments that Obama could be tested early on as president. She wondered if the Delaware senator was saying America’s days as the world’s leading power were over.
“I don’t know who’s writing your questions,” Biden shot back.
Biden so disliked West’s line of questioning that the Obama campaign canceled a WFTV interview with Jill Biden, the candidate’s wife.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxT0ELP7az0
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125.
"WFTV-Channel 9's Barbara West . . .wondered about Sen. Barack Obama's comment, to Joe the Plumber, about spreading the wealth. She quoted Karl Marx and asked how Obama isn't being a Marxist with the "spreading the wealth" comment.
"Are you joking?" said Biden, who is Obama's running mate. "No," West said.
There are 'difficult' questions and those that are put only to make a cheap sensationalist point for the opposition. Aren't there?
The video stream of the whole interview 'is no longer available". Because Barbara West didn't show up too well with her 'difficult' questions in the end perhaps?
"How about reporting about how the Obama campaign refusing to be interviewed by TV stations that ask them difficult questions", you ask.
Well, the report would not say what you obviously hope we would infer from your post. From the same article: "the Obama campaign canceled a WFTV interview with Jill Biden, the candidate's wife."
[My italics.]
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ref #136
O.K so you admidt that you are taking him at his word. And that you think his policies will go through.
I amy be taking a technocratic approach:
You don't make a 1st year intern the head of John Hopkins.
You see hope, I see Jimmy Carter term 2.
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Why doesnt the BBC just publish its official position on this:
'If JC himself ran on a double ticket for the Republicans with Mother Therese we would still not endorse them and find criticism (was the feeding of the five thousand really that many or an exuberant over count -where was the audit? Did Mother Therese really love the poor, we dug up someone she made a curt remark too)
Whereas we love Barack, we had never heard of Biden but still love him, we loved Hilary before that, Bill of course and even Ted Kennedy and frankly if an amoeba ran we would love him too and report him in a positive light'
Fortunately America doesnt care about the BBC or the New York Times for that matter
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Your description of Charles Krauthammer's article ("putting the case for McCain/Palin with passion and vigour") is misleading. Mr Krauthammer doesn't mention Governor Palin. The omission is surely significant.
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137. SamTyler1969 wrote "That was 3."
Sorry, it was only one.
"Keynesian", "interventionist" and "centre-left" aren't terms that can be used in "proper political discourse." You'll have to try again.
You see, 'TooTrue', I can be perfectly fair to both sides.
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"124. At 1:08pm on 26 Oct 2008, DameMargaretThatcher wrote:
Yes, the picture sums up the election. Obama lied to McCain and pulled a U turn regarding accepting public campaign contributions. Much of which has come from overseas. The GOP has just filed suit on this matter.
As such Obama has double the advertising budget.
Obama appeals to the young and is motivating this demographic. (And we all know how smart the young are, right?)
This is American Idol. Obama's economic plan has zero prospects of reviving the economy.
Taxing the industrious top 5%. Increasing tax burdens on companies and increasing capital gains tax is the road to the gutter. America already has the second highest corporate tax in the world.
Obama's a socialist - and his effects will further drive down American spending power and, drive down the prosperity of the worlds exporters.
We need reduced corporate tax and capital gains tax to encourage intelligent people to bring new technologies and inventions to the table. America needs to actually INVENT and PRODUCE things again. And we need an experienced commander in chef to ensure a stable environment to operate in.
McCain is the perfect choice to make this happen."
Seems like the majority of US electors disagree with you.
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134. At 1:50pm on 26 Oct 2008, eightypercent wrote:
# 125
"I have written before this morning about this interview. It is on Huffpo, fair and square for all to see and shows Biden demolishing the slanted questions that were put to him."
I've just watched it. He actually disposes of her with charm, confidence and even a degree of eloquence.
Not exactly the picture some people are trying to give us at all.
It's here (so TheFirstRalph and others can see the real thing): http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/25/biden-slammed-during-flor_n_137830.html
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Republicans genuinely believe that the "industrious multitudes" actually consist partly of criminals, welfare spongers, and the idle, and partly of industrious people who aspire to become part of the wealthy few.
Unfortunately, both categories are a lot smaller than they understand, and the majority of the 95% have worked very hard all their lives yet despair of ever making $250,000 a year. In the current economic climate, the aspirational are shrinking fast, and their numbers joining the despairing.
These people have no reason to vote for McCain's tax plans, and every reason to vote for Obama's tax cuts.
Incidentally, it just occurs to me that Obama's tax cutting platform pretty much makes him a conservative by European standards. A true social democrat (not to mention socialist) would be dodging the tax issue or at best promising to maintain them, not guaranteeing to cut them. Obviously no-one has ever been elected on a promise to raise taxes, but McCain is only promising credits, he's not committed to reducing taxes for the masses at all.
Perhaps his better argument would be that Obama isn't being socialist enough, and that revenue-neutral or not, cutting taxes when the economy is in crisis and the national debt is spiralling out of control is at best unrealistic and at worst downright reckless. It's more accurate, but too far off-message!
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British-ish wrote:
"Your thinking is beyond me. It is not economically possible to 'produce' the things Americans want to buy at WalMart at WalMart prices in the US unless you will all accept being paid a dollar or two a day. Or without hefty government sudsidies like those given to cotton or rice farmers. (Which I would presume you would be against.)"
Correct...my thinking is beyond your quaint British cottage industry mentality.
I'm talking about turning americas advantage in hi-tek, weapons and space into consumer products and green technologies that benefit the world.
Obama thinks were going to be screwing caps onto toothpaste tubes for $10 an hour. His vision is niave. Even Orwellian.
Word up to the working classes - the future is less with Obama.
And drop the Maggie bashing - ok? She was the best thing that happened to your sad, rainy, soggy boat-of-a-country. Tony Blair removed your nut-sacks and turned you into a dumbed-down bunch of alcoholic, bolchevics. (Hence your affinity to Obama)
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80% (91), Obama as we knew him
Peace and reminiscences
ed
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145. DameMargaretThatcher:
If you watch the actual interview you will get a rather different impression to that given in the report that you quote.
I presume you have not.
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#144 gunsandreligion
Hope you didn't miss the flight posting that!
However, the logic of a statement in the original document somehow "contradicting the retraction at the end of the document." escapes me.
I know that the concept of evolution over time escapes a lot of you guys, but even you must see that a later statement can hardly be contradicted by an earlier statement that it was retracting.
However, we were just trying to be helpful - not commenting on the accuracy of the original statement or the retraction.
Much more to the point was British-ish's comment -
"What surprises me about that (I suppose it shouldn't) is that 'non lethal crowd control' training is apparently a novelty in the US army."
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Looking at Mrs Palin's performance I cannot help but feel that Mr McCain, in his weaker moments, didn't really want to win this election anyway, and, looking at the appalling state of things, who can blame him?
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#146 british-ish
"Jill Biden, the candidate's wife."
Does that mean Michelle is available for Sam?
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Self evident and Too (un)true.
Don't know about blameless, but it was inevitable, and that's a fact. Sooner or later the worm turns.No, Atrocity applies to our response - bombing the hell out of far more innocents.
Peace and true patriotism
ed
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Regarding #151.
Obama has a 5 point lead in the polls.
Add in "The Bradley Effect" and it's anyones game.
A lot will happen in the last week. Palin has firmed up the base and the Maverick will be bombing the swing states like they were the Hanoi powerstation.
FYI, I was driving down this little backroad in England (The M6, I think it was called) listening to the radio. You had this guy called "Moyles". Is this what you call entertainment? And there was ths TV show with everyone just siting in a room....Jeez, is this what happens when everything gets socialized?
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Can't help it. Searching the online Observer for the interviews with people who actually have known Obama ( http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/oct/26/barackobama-uselections2008 ) I also found these delicious quotes:
On how she entered politics: "I'm one of those people, y'know, I see a soldier walk through the airport and, y'know, my heart does a little double-take." (2008)
On John McCain:?"He's the kind of fellow whose name you will find on war memorials in small towns across this great country. Only he was among those who came home." (2008)
Speaking at her old church, the Wasilla Assembly of God:?"I can do my part in doin' things, like workin' really really hard to get a natural gas pipeline." (2007)
On Alaska:?"We want to see Ivana Trump because we are so desperate in Alaska for any semblance of glamour and culture." (1996)
On the American forces:?"They are building schools for the Afghan children, so there is hope in our neighbouring country of Afghanistan." (2008)
After No 4, how did she get elected Governor? (No. On second thoughts, nobody answer that, please.)
Definitely funnier than even Boris Johnson. And I cut out the moose stew and seeing Russia from Alaska.
Oh, and I take back what I said about Joe Biden making gormless comments now I've actually watched that TV interview. Something tells me he gets quoted seriously out of context in the US press.
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147: "You don't make a first-term intern the head of John Hopkins."
A fatuous analogy on several levels, America is a democracy and anyone is entitled to run for President. The only formal qualification they need is a majority of votes in the electoral college (unofficially, they also require the backing of one of two parties in a political oligarchy, several million dollars, and to profess an irrational belief in an implausible all-powerful being).
And John Hopkins usually have more than two candidates from which to select - if they had to choose between a very able first-term intern and a senile old man, then yes, they probably would appoint the intern!
That is even before smashing the assumptions that Obama is the equivalent of a "first-term intern," and that a second Carter term would have been a particularly bad thing!
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Come on, who was the joker who reported Duhbah's comment? Who's got the nuts to explain themself?
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#154 DameMargaretThatcher
"I'm talking about turning americas advantage in hi-tek, weapons and space into consumer products and green technologies that benefit the world."
Well the USA may have a lead in hi-tech weaponary but space? Sorry that's gone.
The ESA ATV is actually the most advanced unmanned vehicle in the world.
NASA is being forced to hitch rides with the Russians after the shuttle retires because they've fallen behind on the Orion-Ares system, which is basically a revamped Apollo with better computers.
The James Webb telescpoe, the replacement for Hubble will be launched on an Ariane 5 because NASA doesn't have a heavy lift vehicle.
Bert Rutan's Spaceship Two technology has been co-opted by Britain's own Richard Branson.
Let's not even start on biotechnology and particle physics...
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Dame, you are on the verge of being offensive. Moyles is an idiot, you should have switched channels. Thatcher did enact some overdue reforms but she also left millions of people on the scrapheap, the social consequences of which we are still suffering. Remember we are still an ally of yours - should'n't you be a little nicer : )
not that I'm hurt
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Oh and Dame, that 5% is from Zogby whose last few polls are all over the place, from Wed: 8, 10, 12, 9, 5
Rasmussen: 4, 6, 7, 8, 8
RCP average as of yesterday: 7
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"WFTV-Channel 9's Barbara West
Is there a typo in there somewhere?
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The election for me isn't about picking a perfect candidate, because there will never be one. It's about picking the person who can best do the job.
We don't need a maverick for president. We need somebody who can unite the country. I think, given time, Obama has more of a chance of winning people over.
Biden is in danger of saying a number of dumb things, but never in danger of not knowing what the VP is supposed to do. Palin clearly doesn't understand the job description, or she's too proud to admit she doesn't.
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#145, DMT
Breaking news? It's obvious to me that the questions were dragged in straight from the Rovian archive.
Biden responded well, though he looked a bit angry at the final shot. He just should have shaken his head with a friendly smile, as he did throughout the interview.
What a nonsense, lobotomic interview. Her behavior reminded me of the nurse in "One Flew over the cuckoo's Nest", nagging about Socialism over and over again...
So, nothing more than an attempt to fear the dumb segment in American society.
We'll see how big this segment is. I hope surprisingly small.
Republicans, go rebuild your party. There's nothing wrong with a REPUBLICAN one!
Go watch the video, though, but first go looking at this, yeah ;-)
http://minimovie.com/film-128460-McCain-Obama Dance-Off
Ange
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#166 selfevidenttruths
But the Dame did give us that lovely image of it driving down the M6 while watching the Royle Family!
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British-ish, did you know that 'jobs' is a 3 letter word? I'm sure Huff has a link somewhere.
As some people are getting the Florida station interview with Biden from Huff, I'll throw in what Fox are reporting. They have shown clips, not the whole thing. Biden is seen to ask "are you joking in response to a question about Obama being a Marxist, and "who writes your questions" in response to a question on whether american power is on the wain. They point out that these are just clips, and that Biden is reacting to a whole series of similar question. Biden comes across as a little bewildered, but calm. Good job, Joe.
However, it is then reported that the Obama campaign have cancelled any further contact with the station for the duration of the campaign (going beyond just a cancellation of an upcoming interview with Mrs Biden).
Now it seemed to me that the questions Biden faced were a bit off the wall, but so much so that they should have been easy to counter. If they are really saying that they are boycotting a station because 1 reporter asked questions they did not like, then that worries me. Dissent is a one-way street, apparently.
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Dame: 'And drop the Maggie bashing - ok? She was the best thing that happened to your sad, rainy, soggy boat-of-a-country. Tony Blair removed your nut-sacks and turned you into a dumbed-down bunch of alcoholic, bolchevics. (Hence your affinity to Obama)'
whose bashing who?
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#150
Ish.
That was 3 comments. Too asked for comments, not concepts. I don't like to overburden folks with too much at once.
Pax Vobiscum
Pedantic Sam
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154, 161.
Now now DMT, remember you're a lady?
Amongst ordinary people, your namesake was probably the most disliked British Prime Minister in recent times because of her policies, which can be summed up as 'survival of the greediest'.
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Sorry selfevidenttruths - No offense intended.
It's just when I get weak retort to my observations - I tend to get off topic.
Infact, I have some friends and relatives in good old Englandshire - but I only go there for funerals, because they keep dying of MRSA.
I'm catching a flight to Texas - so toodle pip, y'all. McCain/Palin 08!
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Oh my God, McCain is a disgrace to the republicans. How can McCain say the Democrat have prepared their victory speech when the election is not yet over and the winner declared? This would show to Americans that McCain has no hope in the election. No wonder he is involved in all the negative campaignings to secure votes. For God sake, Americans need a trustworthy president not the like of McCain who can mislead the whole country.
Who can respect McCain when he stand against George W. Bush, the man he supported 90%. This man is a real betrayer, it would be hard to trust him. Americans are sick and tired of Mr McCain's negative moves. We are not stupid to to give him the barton to make our country sink. May God safe America from the rule of McCain.
IronAnsu
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171: agreed lol
Dame: it is spelt bolshevik
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You know, Mr Webb, I have been reading your comments for as long as you have been in this space on BBC online. And I have watched many, many of your reports, both while living in the US, and now, in the UK.
I have never heard you be quick to use the term "incompetence" in referring to George Bush. Even though, in his case, it was the most apt term from the outset of his campaign for the US Presidency, and later through eight difficult years for everyone, that have now brought the entire planet to some kind of "meltdown" -- so that even formerly 'infallible' eminences grises such as Greenspan are finally admitting to their self-evident failures.
Governor Palin is not incompetent. It is not 'incompetence' that gets a woman governor with a conservative philosophy the No. 2 spot on the GOP ticket in a time when it seems the GOP is destined to be definitively dismantled and rubbished forever.
It is quite the opposite.
So Gov. Palin was awkward in a few interviews -- and her political enemies made sure to play those bits ad nauseam on TV, then satirise them on the rather lame, not-all-that-edgy show, SNL. The show that showcases singers like Bork: obviously cutting-edge epoch-shaping cultural content.
When Howard Dean gave that awful yell in Iowa, did anyone call him "incompetent"? When Condoleezza Rice does something particularly foolish, does anyone accuse her of "incompetence?" When Michelle Obama fist bumps "the future President" and he writes that he would like to "purge himself" of his white blood, do the media even so much as cringe?
No. In fact, most of the time you applaud.
You applaud when Rice's policies almost started WW3 with Russia because she promised a crackpot "America would stand by him" in his attempt to commit genocide on a small neighbouring nation.
What has Governor Palin done that has earned the undiluted hatred of so many media voices?
Given birth to five human beings? So has Nancy Pelosi, and no one says a word.
Stood up for people with special needs? This is a vast constituency, growing daily.
Changed a few thousand diapers? It is time the world had more leaders who understood the vital lessons to be learned from this humblest of tasks: lessons about care, and duty, and hygiene, and humanity, and development: lessons you admired when they were taught by Mother Teresa or Princess Diana, but that you resent when they are represented by a woman who looks likely to stand in that empty space both MT and Di left on the planet.
Oh, surely the media would prefer Angelina and Madonna and Britney -- or maybe "Sasha Fierce" -- to be the icons for their daughters and sweethearts to embrace, right?
Millionaire singer-dancer-actors, girls who jump around wearing skimpy clothes and fulfill the dreams of juvenile lads --- who satisfy the boy within Everyman.
Rather than the "Mum" who says: eat your peas, wipe your nose, play nice, marry a good girl, stop hitting your brother, share. And also: "Apologise." And, worst of all: "Come to church on Sunday."
Of course the secret adolescent in many of you powerful men hates all that!
Governor Palin terrifies little boys because she is a Grown Woman, an adult, with judgement, opinions, beliefs, convictions even -- and executive experience. Meaning she is used to telling many grown men what to do. And they tend to do it, because it is their job.
I love the fact that Senator McCain, as macho a man as any in American politics, obviously feels comfortable with powerful women, and embraces that in a way I doubt Bill Clinton ever could, or certainly Al Gore and any number of other "feminist" liberals... Even John Edwards was exposed as a faithless husband to one of the world's most amazing women. Not only that, but he cheated on her with a woman neither intelligent, nor attractive, nor seductive... with a total nonentity. How revealing!
Having spent decades in San Francisco, capital of the Gay universe, I have many wonderful friends who are gay. And of course they are fighting for the right to be united in "holy wedlock" at least in the eyes of the state.
Many of these people -- 99% of them -- hate and fear Palin with every ounce of strength they have.
Too late! She is already on the scene!
To them, I will say: don't hate someone you will need to deal with for many years to come. Remember, she is a serious Christian. Meaning she "hates your sin" but not "you" as such.
Ask yourselves, how fair is it to ask for tolerance and acceptance for yourselves, but not have the courtesy or decency to feel tolerance and acceptance for a fellow human being who feels such obvious love for the man in her life? How can anyone denigrate such a beautiful, authentic couple, the feelings they profess, their passion for their beliefs, the beautiful family they have created?
Of course, Mr Webb, if you simply want to incite and polarise the community, the nation, the planet -- to add fuel to the fire of intolerance and persecution: by all means, keep attacking the Palins. Make more enemies for yourselves.
Only do a head count first. You may discover you are greatly outnumbered, and the other side doesn't scare easily.
Is this the fight you want on your hands? Risking decades of gains?
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There is nothing like a Dame . . .
"And drop the Maggie bashing - ok? She was the best thing that happened to your sad, rainy, soggy boat-of-a-country. Tony Blair removed your nut-sacks and turned you into a dumbed-down bunch of alcoholic, bolchevics. (Hence your affinity to Obama)"
A sad decline from "unsinkable aircraft carrier" to "soggy boat". And it's spelt "Bolshevik' by the way.
Tony Blair did a lot of bad things, but to accuse him of depriving squirrels of their food is really sinking even lower than most of the right wing seem to do here.
That's a rather roundabout way of telling us you believe Obama is "a dumbed-down alcoholic Bolshevik", but at least two-thirds of that has the virtue of novelty, if nothing else, I suppose.
Can I point out that your post, Dame, is pretty obviously in contravention of the BBC House Rules? But if I complained to the moderators and it was removed for its intemperate language and general offensiveness, you would be crying about being 'censored', wouldn't you?
Now, I'm going off to dumb myself down by reading a few more Sarah Palin quotes, drink my six-pack of Stella with a handful of cashew nuts, practice spelling Bolshevik. . .
But I won't be replying to any of your posts when I'm back. Not unless you ask nicely.
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Dame 176, thanks, good job I enjoy black humour (MRSA comment) - safe flight
: )
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http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/10/26/palin-annoyed-with-cbs-interviewer/#comments
Oh dear, here we go ahead. This woman is an embarassment
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Dame Thatch,
I love the idea of weapons as consumer products! Maybe this is a good example of prototyping?Perhaps even lethal methods will continue to be market leaders in the coming troubles?The league table of arms dealers
We are world leaders in arms sales
Some ramifications of arms sales
Peace and consumer goods
ed
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I just watched Sen. McCain on MEET THE PRESS, and was astonished that he would keep throwing money at corporations that should be able to bail themselves out of the mess that they created. I guess that maybe the average US taxpayers will eventually get tired of bailing others out of their messes. If a small business folds apparently no big deal, 4 out of 5 close after 1 year. but let GM or Ford have a bad year and they need to be saved.
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Dame,
Probably with the same outcome as the last? Five years (or more) in the wilderness...Love it!Peace and ejection
ed
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Cyril, the best coment of all was "If you don't read the newspaper, you are uninformed. If you do read the newspaper, you are misinformed - Mark Twain".
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maria-ashot, Thanks for the spelling lesson, I was pretty sure that first one was wrong.
I won't bother correcting your impression of the "Dean Yell", but if you are interested, there are several video tapes that place the yell in correct context (as a response to the crowd) if you care to actually search for them...oops, I seem to have corrected you anyway sorry.
On to Palin. She is not awkward, she is Bambi-in-the-headlights dumb. She staggered in circles like a poisoned calf in the interview with Katie Couric. Palin's a creationist, what more data do you need on her intellect? She was the pathetically erratic choice of a doddering old man trying to shore up THE WRONG SIDE of his appeal...good red meat for the lunatic right fringe of his own party. This, in an election that can ONLY be won by appealing to the independents and the conservative wing of the Democratic Party.
Between that idiotic choice, which cost him my vote and his current "performance", John McCain is fast on the path to losing not just an election but the respect of the American people.
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172 seanspa
See 146 and 152. The TV station in question, it seems to me, has deliberately canned its video so it's own highly selective take would be the 'right' version.
Fortunately, they were dumb enough to forget somebody might put the whole thing on YouTube.
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maria-ashot: I am sure that ther are many contyributors to this blog, of all persuasions, that have vastly more knowledge of foreign affair and economics than Sarah Palin does. However, I bet not one of us would feel like we had the ability to step in as president of the world's most powerful country (the obituaries are very premature) at a moments notice. Mrs Palin, whatever her other qualities has yet to demonstrate that ability. The scrutiny of her is wholly justified. Personally, her 150k wardrobe is neither here nor there, nor is the fact that she has five kids, or even troopergate. If she could have given one good interview showing a decent grasp of foreign affairs we might be looking at a different election, but she did'n't.
I just don't think she possess the intelligence, judgement, understanding and qualifications to hold such a position. Many of your fellow countrymen agree, including senior republicans.
This is not a hatchet job on Sarah, she just aint got it.
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Bringing up Rev, Wright again would have been so redundant, and suicidal for the republicans. For one, Obama put that issue to rest with one of the most honest, thoughtfu,l soul-searching speeches going back generations, immediately following that controversy. Two, race is a factor, but making it a full blown agenda would definitly alienate many more voters. Instead they let it seep through the cracks.
Integrity is something that has been losing popularity over the last 30-40 years. It should be the mental fiber that weaves society together. The only problem with integrity is that you have to give decisions great thought, for the long term. It may not make you alot of money, get you where you want to go faster, because you actually have to think how it would affect people around you.
Family wealth, religion and all the right connections do not nessasarily make a good president. Deep ponderance when that internal alarm bell sounds will.
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British-ish, I think you miss my point. I'm sure I've missed yours. The selective clips I saw did not make Biden look foolish. The Obama campaign response does make them look scary. Are you saying that the Obama camp is right to ban stations they don't like?
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'Word up to the working classes - the future is less with Obama.'
Word up - ignorance is bliss...
'And drop the Maggie bashing - ok? She was the best thing that happened to your sad, rainy, soggy boat-of-a-country. Tony Blair removed your nut-sacks and turned you into a dumbed-down bunch of alcoholic, bolchevics. (Hence your affinity to Obama)'
You'd have to be non-British to say something as absurd as this: it is quite funny. All Brits are alochlics: I'm drunk right now and Brown's absolutely plasered, we all have our own flasks handed out by the socialist government - along with all our benefit cheques!
I've always thought that Blair - despite supporting wholeheartedly the disgraceful excursion in Iraq - was always secretly despised by the Neo-Cons and was a stooge for their murderous plans. But what else would you expect from a socialist? (this is the funniest idea of all, but this term seems to be deliberately misunderstood by so many deranged right-wingers. We must sort out the learning system in the States - something is badly wrong: people seem unaware of thedefinitions of actual words).
That's 'Bolsheviks', son. Right-wing scare-mongering ineptness is one thing, but do get your spelling right. Perhaps Obama can sort out pre-University Education - emphasis on 'pre' here in your case - for America.
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# 116 MagicKirin
I know I shouldn't give this person 'the oxygen of publicity', to quote Mrs Thatcher (the real one) but anyway...
"First Dominick I am registered independent."
While I'm sure you're registered (or indeed certified) as something, you're about as independent as Sarah Palin - or Osama Bin Laden
"What I resent is that the 40% of Americans who do not pay income taxes get a handout."
Any proof of this statistic? I'm assuming that this 40% doesn't include the extremely wealthy, who manage to dodge taxes? Presumably therefore, if it's true - and by the law of averages Magic has to get something right eventually - it's people who don't earn enough to pay tax? And you resent them? Surprise, surprise.
"His foriegn (sic) policy advisors at one time or maybe still include Samantha Powers an extreme leftist and Robert Mallory who supports the Palestinians over Israel and has lied in stating that Arafat did not sabotage the peace plan when Clinton was in office."
There you go again - the Magic we all know and don't love. Anyone you happen to disagree with is invariably an extremist, a terrorist or a phoney [eg Nelson Mandela - one of many who cannot aspire to Magic's high moral ground] - with no evidence provided except your own bottomless prejudice.
Here's what those nasty commie Muslim leftists at Wikipedia say about Powers - "...an Irish American journalist, writer, and academic. She is currently affiliated with the Carr Center for Human Rights Policy at Harvard University's Kennedy School of Government. Power has been a winner of the Pulitzer Prize and was a senior adviser to U.S. Democratic Party presidential candidate Barack Obama until March 2008 when she resigned after calling Hillary Clinton a "monster.""
What exactly is your evidence - if any - that she is an "extreme leftist"? You're v quick to whinge about people not answering your questions - now it's your turn. [And for the record, there is a difference between 'extreme leftist' and 'has at any time in their life been in any way even slightly critical of any policy or practice of any Israeli government.']
[For the record I know nothing about Mallory - all I know is that once again Ubermensch doesn't bother to distinguish between 'a lie' and 'a belief he happens to disagree with'.]
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190. At 4:54pm on 26 Oct 2008, middlecroony wrote:
..."It should be the mental fiber that weaves society together."....
We can Trust people that have Integrity. When they know their Higher Purpose, as in "leading the nation bck to economic health", then the individual (President) can plan his/her Right Action.
Integrity, Trust, Higher Purpose and Right Action. Having those traits in a balanced way enables you to make wise decisions for the long term.
Look at any financial decision that has had short term gain and a long term loss, you will see one or more of those values or Principles are missing.
Integrity is all about integrating "all that is". It is the antithesis of blinkered myopic politics as practised by the extreme (left and right of center)
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From the datestamps on these comments, it seems the blog software has yet to move its clocks back...Sun Oct 26 16:15:08 GMT 2008
Peace is with enemies
ed
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179. maria-ashot wrote:
"Ask yourselves, how fair is it to ask for tolerance and acceptance for yourselves, but not have the courtesy or decency to feel tolerance and acceptance for a fellow human being who feels such obvious love for the man in her life? How can anyone denigrate such a beautiful, authentic couple, the feelings they profess, their passion for their beliefs, the beautiful family they have created?"
And I quote a Republican as an alternative view to that idyllic picture:
' "She is a diva. She takes no advice from anyone," said this McCain adviser. "She does not have any relationships of trust with any of us, her family or anyone else." '
She's a politiciannot some nice apple-pie baking mom who thought it might be nice to stand for election one day instead of washing nappies and polishing her husband's guns. She's been in politics since she was 24. For nearly as long as McCain in fact.
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British has it in a nutshell
The unlikely (but definitely handbag swashing) appearance of the Dame on these pages has confirmed to us that Tony Blair's one achievement was to DEPRIVE SQUIRRELS OF THEIR FOOD.
So that, was what he was up to. We should have known.
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More on Samantha Powers from Wiki, under views.
"Alongside her advocacy for Barack Obama's candidacy, Power is best known for her efforts to increase awareness with regard to genocide and human rights abuses, particularly the Darfur conflict."
She apparently supports armed intervention in humanitarian crises. She also believes that the Israel-Palestine conundrum can best be solved by pumping Billions into a Palestinian state (but she admits that Israel may not like this).
Doesn't sound particularly leftie to me. Rather pragmatic, in fact. I just can't understand why magic would dislike her so!
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seanspa/british-ish
just watched the interview, I thought that Biden did a good job. by far the most agressive questioning I have seen of anyone so far. I would like to see the following question asked of McCain: So John, why did you pick someone who is blatently unqualified to be your VP?
or, do you beat your wife often?
By the way Sean, I agree, they should cancel the Jill Biden interview, but that's all, no station ban. It looks bad, and they have nothing to fear anyway.
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Re #45 - british-ish wrote: re: #24
"I forgot. Dear 'Greyness'
"Yes, it's so embarrassing when I pull out a map here in London to give Americans directions, and it has "Terra Incognita" and "Here be Monsters" in big letters and it's all blank with just a few squiggles the other side of the blue coloured bit. What's a globe? Everyone knows the earth is flat just like the maps."
My apologies for omitting direct appeal to you,
I was ignorant that you may take what is not directed to you personally, particualrly as it was an attempt to politely address a factual issue while not appearing an aggressive blog response - as it appears yours was intended;
particularly of an issue of addressing an inaccuracy, and it being an inaccuracy that is not too uncommon, the mistaken or disproportionate perspective of Alaska or Hawaii, from North Americans, let alone elsewhere...thus a few global examples.
My action of offering, with deference
the presumption that the originating author's intelligence is to be respected and a small error being addressed appears to not be the way in which you prefer for discourse to be undertaken.
So for not realizing prior to posting that you tend to treat this community space for more monologue-like delivery I hope you can understand it was not a personal slight.
Though well referenced jab with the "Incognita" bit.
However in omitting the issue that was being discussed and jumped on my failure of placing a couple qualifying words to the original response to the notion of Texas being larger than Alaska, so I offer to amend it:
"so possibly not accustomed to spacially proportionate/accurate North American maps/globes."
Further I hope you are not irrrecovibly harmed by my attempt to keep it general enough so that other readers would find useful information in it, much like a question in a civics class is asked by one yet the response may be able to effect others. It appears you were or are doing well in your civics classes. I do say in present tense as well as your attack feels familiar, late-adolescent is my guess.
Cheers.
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Doing a craftsmanlike job
AwwwwwPeace and schadenfreude
ed
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191. At 4:57pm on 26 Oct 2008, seanspa wrote:
British-ish, I think you miss my point. I'm sure I've missed yours. The selective clips I saw did not make Biden look foolish. The Obama campaign response does make them look scary. Are you saying that the Obama camp is right to ban stations they don't like?
It's not a question of 'banning' a station; they declined that station's request to interview, using, I gather, the same interviewer, the V-P candidate's wife. Not him again, not Obama. . .
What's scary about that? Our Prime Minster's wife declines pretty well all requests for an interview too.
How many times have you heard "We asked X for an interview, but he/she/they declined"?
You get that from most oil companies, most pharmaceutical companies, every other business, and at some point or other every single government department.
I heard that innumerable times on the BBC World Service's series on Al Quaeda recently, emanating from the Department of Defense, the Pentagon and the US Army. But no-one says they were 'banning' the BBC from broadcasting.
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161 "DameMargaretThatcher"
"Jeez, is this what happens when everything gets socialized?"
From Wikipedia - "The term socialization is used by sociologists, social psychologists and educationalists to refer to the process of learning one’s culture and how to live within it. For the individual it provides the skills and habits necessary for acting and participating within their society"
I like to think that most adults are 'socialized'. The Dame - with his petty, snide, and offensive generalisations about the UK and its inhabitants - clearly isn't.
[And yes Dame, I imagine in some cases you were just trying to be funny. But you were just trying.]
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197. eightypercent wrote:
"The unlikely (but definitely handbag swashing) appearance of the Dame on these pages has confirmed to us that Tony Blair's one achievement was to DEPRIVE SQUIRRELS OF THEIR FOOD.
So that, was what he was up to. We should have known."
Yes, I'm quite proud of eliciting that little nugget from Tory Blair's favourite female politician. Though I say it myself, Paxman couldn't have done better. I think I might celebrate with a six-pack of weak tea and skimmed milk.
I always knew there had to be something else about Blair that drove me out of my tree.
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number 101, you refer to an incident that the secret service, after investigating, could not prove actually happened.
In fact, the only person who apparently heard the kill him comment was...wait for it...a reporter!
So let me see if Ive got this right, a supposed death threat was made, only heard by one person, yet when investigated by the secret service no one could actually find any other witnesses or evidence to support what the ONE person heard YET the story gets carried by every main stream media outlet as evidence of the anger and hatred from the Right.
There is a very real problem with the way this election has been covered by the MSM, and the BBC has proven through 'reporters' like Webb and co that they are just as happy to run non-stories about Palin while at the same time surpressing anything that doesnt fit the narrative that Obama is a man who will bring real change to Washington.
From carrying vicious smears from the Daily Kos about Palins youngest son being her grandson right through to airing unsubstantiated death threats as proof of the rights anger, the BBC has been right there, reporting all of this with glee.
YET, not surprisingly, not a single snippet or real IN DEPTH report on Obama's links to black racist hate preachers, unrepentant terrorists, links to vicious hate mongers (PLO connections), his lies over his relationship with Ayers (I mean, if it really was nothing, why lie about your ties to the man?), not to mention nothing of any real substance of the Obama campaigns deliberate credit card fraud to raise funds (you have to turn AVS OFF to stop address checking).
Here's an idea, what makes the BBC think that a man who has spent his entire adult life actively seeking out people like Ayers, Wright, Rezko etc is fit for office YET a woman who has fought her own parties corruption is a risk, a train wreck, a creationist (oh, thats right, the BBC upheld a complaint against Webb about spreading the lie of her being a creationist) etc who isnt fit for office?
The BBC has turned its back on reporting because it appears that is too much effort when you can just run a story about the cost of Palins clothes (while ognoring the $5mil cost of the greek backdrop to Obama's speech at the Dems convention.
Mailman
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Any honest person know that Wikipedia is a P.C Fraud.
dublin John I guess you agree with thier censoring of materials.
Powers supports false Palestinans claims of genocide. Sorry to inform you Israel is a key U.S Ally that eliminates her from Most of the American public as a human rights activist.
I'll crticize Mandela all I want the fact is outside of South Africa he failed. He kept quiet about Mugabe ethnic clensing and murder of opponents
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Speaking of squirrels and their nuts, I have to admit to operating a sort of socialist paradise for wildlife. I subsidise the local birds and rodents to the tune of approximately half a metric tonne per annum, using foodstuffs largely imported from the Global Economy....and I consider myself both anti-globalist and an environmentalist! Talk about hypocrisy!
Peace and peanuts
ed
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# 201 - Ed's post :
And that's exactly what a maverick without a mission other than to win for himself can do to a political party.
No one knows what the man is going to do next, but it is pretty sure that whatever it is, it will be in his interest, not the interest of the party he is mean to represent.
We may soon to see a redefinition of the word "maverick" and it might just transmogrify into another good old American word - carpetbagger.
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"206. At 5:46pm on 26 Oct 2008, MagicKirin wrote:
Any honest person know that Wikipedia is a P.C Fraud.
dublin John I guess you agree with thier censoring of materials.
Powers supports false Palestinans claims of genocide. Sorry to inform you Israel is a key U.S Ally that eliminates her from Most of the American public as a human rights activist."
Well you want the Palestinians to dissapear don't you?
What does that make you?
"I'll crticize Mandela all I want the fact is outside of South Africa he failed. He kept quiet about Mugabe ethnic clensing and murder of opponents"
And of course like Obama he is black.
Thank god people like you support McCain.
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Are you talking about red squirrels or grey squirrels? Because of course red squirrels are the original, patriotic squirrels (REAL squirrels), the other lot are a bunch of immigrants driving the real squirrels out of their heartlands, and deserve to be deprived of their nuts.
And I strongly suspect the involvement of ACORN(s).
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# 191 seanspa wrote:
"Are you saying that the Obama camp is right to ban stations they don't like?"
Well first of all - you need to decide if 'the Obama camp' is a singular - 'is right' - or a plural - 'they don't like'. To my mind, either is acceptable - but not both in the same sentence.
;-p
On a rather more serious note - I haven't watched any of the film of the interview in question. However, it seems to me that any candidate or campaign has a right to decide which journalists or stations they'll talk to - and any journalist or station has a right to report this fact, any any voter or observer has the right to draw their own conclusions.
AFAIK the Obama campaign isn't 'banning' this station - they just said the wife of their VP candidate won't give them an interview. Also, AFAIK, Obama himself didn't talk to Fox for a good while due to their blatant bias [their insistence on always calling him Barack Hussein Obama, their calling his wife his 'babymama' etc etc etc]. If they've decided this station is biased against them and plans to ask 'have you stopped beating your wife' type questions - that's their call.
If you're talking about censorship - how many press conferences has Palin given? According to Andrew Sullivan, she's the only VP candidate in decades to give none. Apparently because the 'MSM' don't show her enough 'deference'. A few weeks ago she was practically unknown. A few days from now, she could be the proverbial heartbeat away from The Red Button.
Also interesting that Joe Klein of Time - author of Primary Colours, and someone who's known McCain for years - was apparently banned from McCain's plane...
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#206 Magickirin
"Any honest person know that Wikipedia is a P.C Fraud."
Oh come on even I'm not going to touch a straight line like that...
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Interesting link to the New Yorker and a piece on the genesis of the Palin nomination(from Mr Price's blog on this site). Makes you wonder why, if she were aware of the possibility, that she did'n't do a little bit of cramming ....
Also makes you wonder about the republican leadership ...
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200. Greyness
I was trying to make the point that other parts of the world do have 'accurate maps' and that the size of a territory relevant to another is not, so far as I can see, particularly relevant.
The population over which you exercise your political power, and its budget, are rather more indicative than mere size, surely?
I offered a list of European cities with roughly the same population as Alaska: the implication being that it is doubtful whether the mayor of any of them would be considered to have the administrative grasp or experience to run for national office. Especially after a relatively short period in office.
There is an interesting visual light shed on these kinds of comparisons in the pages here: http://ucatlas.ucsc.edu/
I'll get back to my homework now.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
80%,
I doubt he has any accurate idea of what is actually in his interest anymore...Peace and Hail Mary
ed
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On a lighter note. The Chargers From deep blue California and the the Saints from dark red Lousiana are playing at Wembley, in front of a pretty full full stadium. Will the Democrats or the Republicans win? :)
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# 210 StephenDerry wrote:
"Are you talking about red squirrels or grey squirrels? Because of course red squirrels are the original, patriotic squirrels (REAL squirrels), the other lot are a bunch of immigrants driving the real squirrels out of their heartlands, and deserve to be deprived of their nuts."
I'm lost here. On the one hand, in the US, what with their 'exceptionalism' and having to be different, the 'Reds' are rightwingers. OTOH, everyone knows that 'Reds' are the ones under the beds trying to corrupt our innocence.
So now I don't know which are the good squirrels
In the words of Fr Dougal Maguire - 'I'm hugely confused Ted'
:-)
"And I strongly suspect the involvement of ACORN(s)."
Good one!
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210. StephenDerry
You'll have to ask the Dame about that. She was the one who brought it up. Lots of grey squirrels in Hyde Park near home, but it's been raining today, so I didn't want to go out and check on theirs.
But given Blair's "Third Way", renaming the party 'New Labour' and general dislike of anything 'red', topped out with his Americanophilism, I'm very much afraid it might have been the native variety he had it in for.
You'll have to excuse me, but I'm being told off for writing monologues and being adolescent, so I'm going to have to abandon the Blair-squirrel question, I think. Otherwise, I'm never going to be taken seriously around here. They'll all just think I'm nuts.
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Oops-a-daisy - Mailman 2 at # 205 went off on one again - just as we had got round to talking about squirrels.
Mailman, one of these days someone on these pages is going to snap and start asking about Mr. John McCain. Asking about :
His gambling and his support from big gambling
His womanising
His abandonment of his first wife
His use of his second wife (I won't continue, mods listening)
His military records and whitewashing of same
His exposure in the Keating 5 saga
His lack of political loyalty
His lack of a political philosophy
- I'll stop there but could go on.
I suppose that there is one thing he has in his favour - his skin pigment is to the whiter end of the spectrum. That's not necessarily a reliable sign that you are the best candidate for leader of the free world.
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I see Pollster.com has tipped Georgia from "McCain leaning" to "Toss up" and South Dakota from "McCain strong" to "McCain leaning".
I've never understood why people waste money on "national" polls in a country with deeply divided voting patterns. It makes no sense in an Electoral College system.
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A quote from McCain's 'Meet The Press' interview:
"Those polls have consistently shown me much farther behind then we actually are," he said. "We're doing fine."
Normally I would think this was just spin but if McCain really believes that then it would explain the odd decision to campaign in Iowa rather than other states where the poll numbers at least give him a chance. Could he really believe that Iowa is winnable? That Pennsylvania is in fact already going his way?
Unlikely perhaps but how else to explain his campaiging choices for these last crucial days?
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218. At 6:12pm on 26 Oct 2008, john-In-Dublin wrote:
"So now I don't know which are the good squirrels. In the words of Fr Dougal Maguire - 'I'm hugely confused Ted."
Sorry, it's my fault. One of my jokes again. All red squirrels are good squirrels. Definitely.
It's the Americans. Why did they choose red for Republican? It always gives me a mild shock when I read or hear of a state 'going red'. Why didn't they choose white? Or yellow?
(Oh-oh. I think I'll stop there. Before I'm misunderstood again.)
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Looking at the photo of the building with McCain and Palin coming out, I need to ask "Is McCain able?" and "is Palin actually his pal?".
I don't mind whoever wins this election so long as they are not viewing us as the 53rd state after Alaska.
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And when this is all over we should all give a donation of peanuts to Tipiglen (sorry Ed - breaks all blogging rules but you are happy to let us know about it) as thanks to Eirenic Ed for his links - so clever! Still don't have a clue how he does it.
Justin Webb should be the first peanut contributor.
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206 MagicKirin
Yes, I know I shouldn't waste my time in a pointless battle against his endless prejudice and semi-literacy...
"Any honest person know (sic) that Wikipedia is a P.C Fraud (sic)."
Any honest and reasonably intelligent person KNOWS no such thing. An honest and reasonably intelligent person knows there is a vast difference between your prejudices and the truth.
"dublin (sic) John I guess you agree with thier (sic) censoring of materials."
How could they not 'censor'? The question is blatantly ludicrous.
I once clicked on a link on a Wiki page and was sent to a holocaust denier site. I was busy composing an outraged mail to Wiki when I looked again and the link was gone. I read later that holocaust deniers try ceaselessly to get their data on Wiki - so Wiki must try tirelessly to stop them. But I guess you disagree with that.
What Ubermensch is throwing tantrums about is of course that Wiki have barred him from 'editing' pages on eg Hamas. They seem not to see him as impartial. Hard to believe. (Not!).
"Powers supports false Palestinans (double-sic) claims of genocide. Sorry to inform you Israel is a key U.S Ally (sic) that (sic) eliminates her from Most (sic) of the American public as a human rights activist."
Apart from the fact that the second sentence (!) there makes no sense in English - again
-you claim she says something - with no evidence
- you claim it's false - with no evidence -
- and you claim to have most of the US behind you - again, surprise, surprise, with no evidence
"I'll crticize (sic) Mandela all I want the (sic) fact is outside of South Africa he failed. He kept quiet about Mugabe (sic) ethnic clensing (sic) and murder of opponents"
He's human, and no saint. (Although being oppressed and imprisoned for decades and still being more concerned with reconciliation than revenge is pretty saintly to me.) Maybe he should have been more outspoken about Mugabe. Then again, he is in his 90's and retired - after a life long battle against Apartheid.
And which State was a key ally of Apartheid SA? Not Israel, by any chance?
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCs7cxMpyhI
Sinister race-baiting from Fox News about the hoax attack on a McCain worker
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# 215 Simon21
Simon 21
Two points, in reverse order of importance.
1. Obviously on this blog opinions differ as to the need to quote the posting you're responding to. Many/most people just give the number of the posting. I on the other hand tend to at least quote the specific parts of the original posting I'm referring to. Each to his own, I guess. You on the other hand appear to feel the need to repeat every word of what you are replying to - often not making it clear what is yours and what's theirs. Can't you be a bit more selective?
2. "Not to mention the fact that he is black and is still winning! How dare he!"
I've lost count of the number of times you've said or implied that people who are anti-Obama are racist. Why? What evidence do you have? Yes, no doubt some are - consciously or otherwise. But surely they're entitled to the benefit of the doubt until there's proof? Personally I find this as reprehensible as those who claim any criticism of israel (even from Jews!) is anti-Semitic, or any criticism of Palin or HRC is sexist.
At the risk of stating the bleedin' obvious, let me explain why
[a] Because it's wrong to falsely accuse without evidence
[b] Because of the little boy who cried wolf. The little shepherd boy had fun by crying wolf and watching the villagers run. Then the wolf came. He cried wolf. They ignored him. Similarly it seems to me there's a great risk that people will point to genuine racism/sexism/anti-semitism - and they will be ignored, because people have 'cried wolf' too often.
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"Could he [McCain] really believe that Iowa is winnable? That Pennsylvania is in fact already going his way? Unlikely perhaps but how else to explain his campaiging choices for these last crucial days?" - AsaScot
Senility.
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225 eightypercent wrote:
"And when this is all over we should all give a donation of peanuts to Tipiglen." Absolutely. I'm not sure it was wise calling that red squirrel that name, though.
Imagine what the conspiracy theorists who post here would make of it.
(Sorry. I really do have to give up on the squirrel thing, but I only just saw that link. Obama's very attractive, isn't he? [Sop to moderators if the new shift comes on and they haven't been following . . .but those who have will know what I mean.])
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# Dublin John
Time has come to ask some questions of the questioners. What about their man ? What about their record ? What do they think they have to offer ?
There comes a time when we have to account for ourselves - and for Magic and his kin it may well have arrived.
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206 MagiKirin-Ubermensch
""Powers supports false Palestinans (double-sic) claims of genocide. Sorry to inform you Israel is a key U.S Ally (sic) that (sic) eliminates her from Most (sic) of the American public as a human rights activist."
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1031176.html
"New Gallup poll shows 75% of U.S. Jews plan to vote Obama"
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53 deeperwell42 wrote:
"#32 - Oh, little hint - if you don't want to be mistaken for, um, a lunatic, try NOT PEPPERING your TEXT with PANICKY CAPITALISATION that makes you sound like a cross between a STARTLED RABBIT and LYNDON LAROUCHE."
I COULDN'T agree MORE
;-)
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Nick-Gotts,
The whole campaign team? Or the whole GOP? Or do you believe McCain't is still actually in charge of operations?Actually, I suspect the answer is "a and b, but not c"
Peace and multiple choice
ed
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Even Palin's home paper says she's not up to the job!
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/10/the-anchorage-1.html
and so much for her only "great" achievement...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27374946/
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Well it has been a very tough week for Barack Obama.
1.His chance meeting with Joe the Plumber who represents all that America stands for,free enterprise.Joe asked him a question and Obama revealed his philosophy,spreading the wealth around which is known in some parts of the World as democratic Socializm.
2.His running mate Joe Biden telling us that when Obama is elected he will be tested by a contrived major world incident that will test Obama and pleaing to the donors to hang in there with him.
3.John Murtha`s redneck comment in PA.
4.The Bill Ayers connection is still rearing it`s head.Socializm and communizm do go together very well I think
And finally Joe Biden getting hot under the collar because a local reporter just wanted to ask some legitimate questions.
The liberal press have been giving the Obama campaign a real easy time while the McCain campaign continues to get negative press.
Is bullying the press good for the democratic process?
When a presidential candidate is promoting radical policies, it is only right that Joe the public should know exactly what that may mean for all of us.
Many believe that we should have less government interference not more.
Many people have been carried along by a very charasmatic and gifted orator,Barack Obama, but going beyond the spin,what does it all mean?
Small businesses are the lifeblood of the nation,they create jobs and in turn create wealth.
Increased taxes on businesses especially on the brink of recession is going to stifle growth even more and increase unemployment.
It is right and proper that there should be welfare for people who have come on hard times but not to spread the wealth by taking from one side to give to the other through tax credits even when some do not pay tax at all.
All those liberals out there, state your case
Lets have friendly debate, no attacks please.
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Mazal tov!Peace is with enemies!
ed
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# 112 TrueToo wrote:
"I'll tell you when we can have some "proper political discourse." When you guys on the left manage to make two comments in a row without sneering at your opponents and anyone else who doesn't think alike. You might have noticed that I haven't sneered at you."
Oh TrueToo - that's just too true. [Hey - that's your name - what are the odds?!]
I've tried arguing with these liberals but it's impossible.
They cannot accept that I genuinely agree with the views and policies of Sen McCain and Blessed Sarah of Wasillah. Instead it's just smears and sneers. They tell me I've been hypnotised, that I can't think straight, that I've 'drunk the Kool-Aid', that I think McCain is 'The Messiah' and 'The One', that I worship him, that he's 'not like us', that he and Gov Palin aren't 'real Americans', or 'pro-American'. They say he hangs around with fascist dictators because he met General Pinochet. In fact they imply that he must therefore be a fascist dictator too. They sneer at his wife, after her working her way up from such humble and impoverished beginnings, and having to battle the terrible prejudice that society has against blonde women. Why, they even sneer at his second name - Sidney - and repeat it ad nauseam.
Why oh why oh why can't they be fair and balanced like what us conservatives are?
As I was saying to Rush Limbaugh just the other day......
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It occurs to me that 'DameMargaretThatcher' is probably MarcusAureliusII, aka VivaElCid, but now in drag. Same opinions, different costume. More like a pantomime 'dame' than anything else. But give me Danny LaRue or Lily Savage any day, at least they'd be amusing.
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236 Drudge52 wrote:
"Well it has been a very tough week for Barack Obama."
Etc etc etc
You're so right - trailing in all the polls, bound for certain defeat, no campaign funds, his party tearing itself apart, more and more Democrats coming out for McCain - it's been sheer hell.
Since God is of course a Republican, there's not much point my praying to him - but if I did, it'd be for another terrible week like this for Obama next week; and the week after; and for the 8 years of his Presidency - and every week after that.
[Unless of course you were sincerely sympathising with him over his sick granny - but looking at your postings, I don't think there's any real chance of that.....]
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# 112 TrueToo wrote:
"I'll tell you when we can have some "proper political discourse." When you guys on the left manage to make two comments in a row without sneering at your opponents and anyone else who doesn't think alike. You might have noticed that I haven't sneered at you."
I agree with your comment.
Sneering seems to be the byword at the moment.
One never seems to get a straight answer when a question is asked to those on the liberal left.
In some cases you dont even get an answer, just a threat to pull interviews from a station that has not conformed to the party line.
It won`t be long before stations are closed down for doing the very same thing.
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Drudge -welcome back
Some of us are a bit confused.
~ What is it exactly that John McCain is going to bring to resolve the financial meltdown ?
~ What is it exactly that John McCain is going to bring to resolve the Middle East meltdown ?
~ What are the moral values that the alleged adulterer and gambler John McCain is going to bring to the White House ?
Answers please
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David ... lol, he did apologise at least
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ref #227
I don't believe that most people took this hoax seriously.
Even Michelle Malkin the Maureen Dowd of the right doubted it on her blog.
Put this person in the Tawana Brawley Crystal Magnum group.
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236.
"All those liberals out there, state your case.
Lets have friendly debate, no attacks please."
I'm going to be a little acerbic, which no doubt will get me accused of making an attack, but as regards Biden 'getting hot under the collar' please read posts 125, 132, 156, 152 and others for the corrective. And please watch and listen to the whole interview. (The TV station took it down, but I gave a link to it on YouTube.)
As to the rest, as far as I'm concerned it's been done to death and opposing 'liberal' views, especially from my side of the Atlantic have resulted in a considerable amount of abuse, a lot of cliched slogans and a minimal amount of comprehension.
But just to addressone issue: "Small businesses are the lifeblood of the nation,they create jobs and in turn create wealth. Increased taxes on businesses especially on the brink of recession is going to stifle growth even more and increase unemployment."
If consumers buy the prioduct or the service, then any increase in turnover will allow them to pay more in tax. However, every country in the world is now either on the brink of recession or already in one, and despite the merry optimism, the USA is either in recession or on the brink of a depression.
Add to that that apparently many people in the US have received either no or a very small increase in wages over the last 4-8 years, that many are already in trouble paying for their homes, then whether small businesses pay a little more or a little less in tax will make no difference whatsoever if people cannot spend.
And, not having money to spend except on necessities, is what happens in a recession. Either way, what also happens is that many small businesses which do not offer essential goods or services will inevitably both be unable to create any employment or any wealth and will go bankrupt.
I'm sorry, but the idea that a few hundred dollars of a tax bill for a small business will rescue an entire economy from a recession is a chimera. Attractive though the beast might look, it's still mythical.
And I do not think that the Fed's anticipated cut in interest rates to 1 per cent will help anyone except the Treasury (who, just like last time under Greenspan) needs it to haul in foreign dollars to service the debt and buy lots more oikl to keep your gas prices down. Oh, and allow the banks to lend their bailout money in dodgy financial instruments without it costing them anything. Again.
We (or rather you) have been here before.
Now, I think I'd like to go back to squirrels, please, after all.
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236.
"All those liberals out there, state your case.
Lets have friendly debate, no attacks please."
I'm going to be a little acerbic, which no doubt will get me accused of making an attack, but as regards Biden 'getting hot under the collar' please read posts 125, 132, 156, 152 and others for the corrective. And please watch and listen to the whole interview. (The TV station took it down, but I gave a link to it on YouTube.)
As to the rest, as far as I'm concerned it's been done to death and opposing 'liberal' views, especially from my side of the Atlantic have resulted in a considerable amount of abuse, a lot of cliched slogans and a minimal amount of comprehension.
But just to addressone issue: "Small businesses are the lifeblood of the nation,they create jobs and in turn create wealth. Increased taxes on businesses especially on the brink of recession is going to stifle growth even more and increase unemployment."
If consumers buy the prioduct or the service, then any increase in turnover will allow them to pay more in tax. However, every country in the world is now either on the brink of recession or already in one, and despite the merry optimism, the USA is either in recession or on the brink of a depression.
Add to that that apparently many people in the US have received either no or a very small increase in wages over the last 4-8 years, that many are already in trouble paying for their homes, then whether small businesses pay a little more or a little less in tax will make no difference whatsoever if people cannot spend.
And, not having money to spend except on necessities, is what happens in a recession. Either way, what also happens is that many small businesses which do not offer essential goods or services will inevitably both be unable to create any employment or any wealth and will go bankrupt.
I'm sorry, but the idea that a few hundred dollars of a tax bill for a small business will rescue an entire economy from a recession is a chimera. Attractive though the beast might look, it's still mythical.
And I do not think that the Fed's anticipated cut in interest rates to 1 per cent will help anyone except the Treasury (who, just like last time under Greenspan) needs it to haul in foreign dollars to service the debt and buy lots more oikl to keep your gas prices down. Oh, and allow the banks to lend their bailout money in dodgy financial instruments without it costing them anything. Again.
We (or rather you) have been here before.
Now, I think I'd like to go back to squirrels, please, after all.
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eightypercent wrote:
Drudge -welcome back
Some of us are a bit confused.
~ What is it exactly that John McCain is going to bring to resolve the financial meltdown ?
Go to http://www.johnmccain.com/
You will get all the information here.
You can even contribute online here.
~ What is it exactly that John McCain is going to bring to resolve the Middle East meltdown ?
As above really good reading.
John McCain is a very strong supporter of Israel and advocates continued talks between the Israelis and Palastinians.
As for your third question lets not degenerate to personal attacks please.
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There is no further need for "liberals" to state our case. All of these liberal vs. conservative issues have been debated ad nauseum. Now it's time to vote. The differences will not be resolved by debate, they will be settled at the ballot box.
I place "liberal" in quotes because I don't find these labels very meaningful. I would call myself a "radical independent," although, on the basis of my beliefs that a gentleman should remove his hat on entering a pub and drink his beer from a glass instead of straight from the bottle, I am to some extent a "social conservative" as well.
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# 244 Magic
Too late honey, to backtrack. The initial story was promoted from Republican Pa. HQ.
Michelle Malki,n of ill repute to some on these pages, may have seen through it, but the Pittsburg Republicans lapped it up - until proven wrong.
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Drudge52 (236)
Are Obama's plans radical? not particularly - personal taxation roughly at Reagan-era levels.
Increased taxes on the top 5% - hardly marxism - the charge in the tv interview - bit of a 'how often do you beat your wife question' in the way it was phrased. As I remarked above I have not heard anyone ask McCain why he thinks it is a good idead to redistribute wealth to the richest, who already manage to avoid paying tax through various means.
As to corporate taxation, many of the biggest corporations avoid paying tax altogether. Do you think that is fair? Make them pay their share and small businesses and the average Joe could pay less.
The country deparately needs investment in infrastructure - who is going to do that? No one is going to say 'Oh I think I'll build a bridge' - only governments can do that.
As for the Ayers stuff, it has been looked into and is nothing, certainly less damning than McCain's meeting with the dictator Pinochet in the mid 80's. And no, I don't think that that makes McCain a right wing dictator.
So no, I hardly think it is a radical program, could it be better? Yes. Is it better than John McCain's? In my humble opinion yes. How do you think John MCCains program is better?
By the way, Obama has been under intense scrutiny all year. I would'n't exactly say he has had a free ride.
... muslim, terrorist, baby killer, extremist, liberal, as you said the Ayers slur is still flying around, it just does'n't appear to be working.
Your thoughts ...
respectfully
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Now, to get back to something serious. I went off in a huff to 'dumb down' with a bit of reading, and I came across what I thought was a very apposite phrase. (It was actually appplied to Queen Matilda, but you don't really need to know that.)
She was described as suffering "a bout of premature ambition". (In an unsuccessful grab for power in 1135.)
Describes Governor Palin quite well, I thought.
Of course, had Hillary beaten Obama, one might have said the same of him, but events (and successes) change history. "Treason doth ne'er flourish. The reason? When it doth, none dare call it treason." See Palin, ca. 2012.
('Adolescent' indeed. 'Civics classes'. Snort. Squirrels to you too.)
Back to my six-pack.
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245/246
Sorry, Don't know what went wrong there. The box stayed full of text after I hit 'Post Comment' so I assumed it hadn't gone. That's the second time that's happened to me. Oh, squirrels!
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# 241 Drudge52
"In some cases you dont even get an answer, just a threat to pull interviews from a station that has not conformed to the party line.
It won`t be long before stations are closed down for doing the very same thing."
But of course - as soon as Obama wins, all media outlets that dare to question him will be immediately closed.
Now some might think that in a country where judges have decided that the constitutional free speech provisions cover everything from Nazis to hardcore porn, this might be difficult. But of course Obama will get his commie assassins to bump off all the right wing judges, so he can replace them with Stepford judges.
And the mountains shall sink, and the valleys shall rise.
I enjoy a bit of parody and satire. Thank you for being beyond both.
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# 247 Drudge ~ So it comes down to this.
With all the convoluted spin that you and your colleagues put out, you are really only adhering to the policy statements. Good to know - so that you can be called out with your next nonsense.
And you make an interesting statement with regard to my third question which you answer with "let's not generate to personal attacks"
Well, would we ever.
Have we ever on these pages heard attack after attack on the imaginary allegiances of Barack Obama. Have we ever heard the Democratic Nominee for President of the United States alluded to as a marxist, facist, communist, socialist, islamist, or atheist ? Have we, Drudge.
Don't try and hide with a "let's not .. etcetera statement" - because some of us have had enough of you.
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236/Drudge
Every point you mention has been rebutted in great depth numerous times with great eloquence within the comments of this blog. Because you're obviously too lazy to bother reading I will reiterate:
1) Obama explained his tax policy to Sam the unlicensed handyman. He wants to cut his taxes and those of 95% of the American people. Label it anything you want, it's apparantly a votewinner.
2) Biden did say if Obama becomes President he will be tested by a crisis, he went on to say whoever becomes President will be tested. The American electorate are clearly indicating who they would prefer to be dealing with it.
3) John Murtha said some nasty things about the people of Western Pennsylvania, and John McCain couldn't agree more.
4) The Chicago Citizen of the Year 1997 continues to raise his head because you and others keep mentioning him, despite the fact that his tangential relationship with Obama began and ended over 15 years ago and he was no closer to Obama than any other member of that school review board, including a couple of Republicans. The American electorate can see this is nothing more than an attempt at a smear and are getting bored with such negative personality-based attacks.
Happy?
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235, Cyril.
Until I started reading about all the dirty dealing in Alaska (prompted by Palin coming on the scene), I thought New Jersey held the championship for "Most Corrupt State in the Union." We must now cede that distinction to Alaska.
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Consenses is that GOP/Mccain need a security crisis to get a bump in the polls.
What the gopper/mccain wants/need they get.
''US aircraft attack Syria border"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7692153.stm
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Off topic but ...
Many of you will be aware of the wonderful journalist responsible for 'Letter from America'
There is an archive of transcripts from his broadcasts, and also 4 years of the actual shows themselves (2000 -2004)
If anyone somehow has'n't had the pleasure to listen to this man, give yourself a treat ...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/letter_from_america/default.stm
: )
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239, David.
But why would staphylococcus aureus choose Dame Margaret Thatcher? I thought his soul mate was Hyacinth Bucket.
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247. Drudge52.
You, I think, were the one who asked for 'friendly debate'.
And you refer us to the McCain campaign website.
Now suppose, instead of me wasting my time writing a post about the economic situation when I could have been happily thinking of squirrels, I had pointed you to, say 'marxism.org' or the New Labour website?
I suspect I would have been told I had no answers of my own.
OK. Try this: http://www.barackobama.com/index.php
And don't bother asking again. I've never met a right winger with ideas of their own. Doesn't look like it's going to change.
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Another imortant point is the nightmare senario of a democratic President,Congress and Supreme court.
I am sure you will all agree that it is essential to have checks and balances to ensure good government and a McCain/Palin administration can work with a democratic congress.
McCain will put together a bipartizan cabinet that will get respect from both sides on the Hill and will get to work straight away to resolve many issues facing our country today.
As for the small business debate I am convinced that low taxation is the only solution to initiate the growth that we need to lift our economy again.
McCain is his own man and will not follow the policies of the last 8 years.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
I agree with everything Charles Krauthammer said about John Mcain in the column that Justin directed us to here. However, notable by its gaping absence in CK's column was any mention of the GOP vice-presidential nominee. CK's reasoning is double-edged here, because McCain is 72 years old and has had several bouts of cancer - Given everying CK said about the state of the world and the need for a leader who can handle it, would you really want Sarah Palin at the end of the phone at 3am? Ms. Palin is the elephant in the room here so leaving her delicately unmentioned doesn't work; by saying that voting intentions can be decided entirely on issues of global security, Mr. Krauthammer is unwittingly telling us to vote Obama-Biden.
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257, bk.
"Consenses is that GOP/Mccain need a security crisis to get a bump in the polls. What the gopper/mccain wants/need they get. 'US aircraft attack Syria border.'"
That would have the reverse effect. The Democrats would cry that the warmongers had done it again. What the Republicans could get away with, however, would be making it appear that we had been attacked.
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257: bk9061 wrote:
"Consenses is that GOP/Mccain need a security crisis to get a bump in the polls.
What the gopper/mccain wants/need they get.
''US aircraft attack Syria border"
Bloody fools. Just the sort of reckless piece of stupidity some of us have been expecting. Mercifully the Syrians usually keep their cool, but this sort of thing doesn't exactly help the image of the good 'ol gunslinging US in the Middle East.
Act 2, I suppose in this B-movie script will be a 'terrorist threat of retaliation" and then a 'pre-emptive strike' (against an Arab state, of course) and all the rightwingers clamouring here for an ex-miltary man as 'commander-in-chief' get one.
When is the USA going to learn that you can write the script, but it doesn't always have the same neat ending in real life?
Don't anybody waste time answering that, it's 'never'. obviously.
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239.David_Cunard wrote:
"It occurs to me that 'DameMargaretThatcher' is probably MarcusAureliusII, aka VivaElCid, but now in drag. Same opinions, different costume. More like a pantomime 'dame'."
You could be right. I fall for him/her/them/it every time. ((Sigh.) It dawns when they disappear suddenly the way they do, doesn't it? Still (perking up) we got a bit of fun with the squirrels out of it this time.
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At 8:25pm on 26 Oct 2008, StephenDerry wrote:
1) Obama explained his tax policy to Sam the unlicensed handyman. He wants to cut his taxes and those of 95% of the American people. Label it anything you want, it's apparantly a votewinner.
40% of working Americans dont pay tax so where do you get your 95%
Obama is planning tax credits to these people,spreading the wealth as they say.
People dont want handouts from the state,they want jobs,they want to control their own destiny.
2) Biden did say if Obama becomes President he will be tested by a crisis, he went on to say whoever becomes President will be tested. The American electorate are clearly indicating who they would prefer to be dealing with it.
McCain has already been tested many times throughout his life he dosn`t need a test.
There is no time for on the job training.
As for the American electorate the only poll that counts is the vote on the day when each person casts His or her vote in private.
4) The Chicago Citizen of the Year 1997 continues to raise his head because you and others keep mentioning him, despite the fact that his tangential relationship with Obama began and ended over 15 years ago and he was no closer to Obama than any other member of that school review board, including a couple of Republicans. The American electorate can see this is nothing more than an attempt at a smear and are getting bored with such negative personality-based attacks.
It all comes down to Obama`s judgement and his affiliations.Are you saying it is not right to ask these legitimate questions?
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#259. allmymarbles: "But why would staphylococcus aureus choose Dame Margaret Thatcher? I thought his soul mate was Hyacinth Bucket."
Hyacinth would be too suburban although she probably admired Mrs T with all her faults. Possibly the germ isn't familiar with Mrs "Bouquet" since she appears on PBS, a station which MAII abhors because of its 'left-wing bias'. You'll note that the Dame hasn't denied being his former pseudonyms.
British-ish - keep up the good work, you have far more stamina than I! But that six-pack - was it the drinkable variety or are you off to the gym?
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261/Drudge
Would you be equally worried about the nightmare scenario of a Republican President, Congress and Supreme Court? Or would you be happy as a pig in clover?
Is the Supreme Court likely to become Democrat/democratic any time soon? I'm sure there are enough conservative judges to keep you ticking over for another 4 years, who will be very reluctant to retire before the GOP take back the Whitehouse.
The constitutional checks and balances are still there, control by one party does not mean everything automatically passes. Not every Democrat in Congress will agree with every legislative initiative, nor will the President, and the campaign to reassure nervous independent voters to re-elect the President in 2012 will start on Inauguration Day.
If anything having one party controlling government means government can be more effective and get things done, instead of everything becoming a question of compromise and gridlock. This is the reason the UK retains the "first past the post" system rather than the more democratic Proportional Representation which our glorious leaders believe will lead to a succession of coalition governments always on the brink of crisis.
(In the UK, of course, our judiciary is very proudly independent, to the constant consternation of whoever is in government!)
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#267. Drudge52: "It all comes down to Obama`s judgement and his affiliations. Are you saying it is not right to ask these legitimate questions?"
I don't think anyone objects to legitimate questions, but they've been answered over and over again, not just here but elsewhere. The same old charges are being regurgitated - and repudiated. I've no doubt that should Mr Obama win, then, rather than concede, you'll consider it to be 'fixed'.
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257, bk.
I misunderstood your post. I did not realize that we had already attacked Syria. I am not surprised. I have been predicting it in my posts as McCain's last resort in winning the election.
How do you spell EVIL.
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268 DC - according to an earlier post Dame was off to Texas, and he did apologise, so I doubt he is MA2
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262:
Yes; I read that elsewhere. The trouble is he was conveniently 'found out' and 'resigned' his (temporary) job after he'd composed the 'Obama is a Hitler' thing and sent out, what, 75,000 of them?
Do you know, that reminds of similar ploys used by some regime or other, oh dear, must be seventy years ago, now . . .
Seems a bit reminiscent of the tactics of someone else with a Scottish prefix to his name, too. Who was that? It was around fifty years ago, I remember from my American history at school . . .
I haven't seen the 'correction' the party said it was going to send. Funny that.
(Oh, sorry, am I sneering again? I'd better breathe into a brown paper bag for a bit; see if it wears off.)
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ref #262
More likely All the Marbles or Jackforge who frequently attack Jews and/or Israelis
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267/ Drudge (again)
1) You know where the 95% comes from, 95% of Americans make less than $250,000 per year. Those who don't pay tax clearly won't care whether it's raised or lowered!
My experience is that people don't want to pay tax, and if someone says they will reduce it, there is a natural inclination to vote for that. It's not a handout from the state, it's lessening the handout TO the state.
2) As you say, the American people will decide. Biden's comments are not harmful to Obama, in fact it shows he will have counsel from people who understand the danger.
3) Cheap shot, I agree! But America is voting for Obama, not for Murtha.
4) It's fine to ask the questions, but it's not very polite to just ignore the answers. In this case, the answer is "so what." Ayers and the other affiliations that keep getting quoted do not matter to the American people so much as people like Biden, Eisenhower, Powell, Buffet, Clinton and numerous others with who Obama is very much affiliated. I think they are a little more concerned with someone who pals around with people like Palin, Bush and the shady figures of the conservative Right.
5) You snuck the Biden interview in there without numbering it, obviously you haven't watched the whole interview, just the Fox Edit; scroll up, find the link and enjoy!
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David_Cunard
"British-ish - keep up the good work, you have far more stamina than I! But that six-pack - was it the drinkable variety or are you off to the gym?"
Good god no. It was a six-pack of Lipton's Iced Tea I was thinking of ;-)
(I remember making a similar mistake a while ago over 'Joe Sixpack', when I thought Governor Palin was encouraging healthy exercise. Understandable misapprehension, what with her passion for hunting mice an' all, given the concern over obesity. Then I found out she did it from a snowmobile.)
Er, keep an eye on my back while you're here, would you mind? I think I might need it . . .
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On this supposed entry into Syria airspace and killing of 8 civilians.
Both the BBC and Fox News state the Syrian news agency claims this happened.
It may have, but all of the posters here claiming it did:
You seems to have a lot of faith in a dictatorial regime who help terroristsgroups like Hezbollah.
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#272. selfevidenttruths: "according to an earlier post Dame was off to Texas, and he did apologise, so I doubt he is MA2."
His evil twin?
In any case, to the best of my knowledge they have computer connections in the Lone Star State - and free WiFi in places. Off to Texas is no excuse for someone with such virulent opinions.
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At 9:11pm on 26 Oct 2008, StephenDerry wrote:
The constitutional checks and balances are still there, control by one party does not mean everything automatically passes. Not every Democrat in Congress will agree with every legislative initiative, nor will the President, and the campaign to reassure nervous independent voters to re-elect the President in 2012 will start on Inauguration Day.
If anything having one party controlling government means government can be more effective and get things done, instead of everything becoming a question of compromise and gridlock.
There have been expectations that in the congressional elections this year,the democrats may get a veto overiding majority in both houses with the Republicans unable to fillibuster legislation.
I believe that in this economic melaise we need Bipartizan agreement on the hill.
Increased government spending raised by increasing taxes just isn`t the way forward in todays economic climate.
In my opinion McCain would be able to bring opposing sides together rather than Obama.
McCain has a record of working with people across the aisle.This in my opinion is so vital at the moment.
The democratic leadership in congress are very liberal at this time and this fact can only have a polarizing effect on the hill.
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#273 british-ish and #274 MagicKirin
How can you reply to a post that no longer exists?
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allmymarbles
On any usual day I would not come to this conclusion (that it is a politically motivated move wrt the election). The desperation and corruption of the administration makes me a tad suspicious.
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McCain also has a record of supporting whatever George W Bush proposed, which got you to this economic climate in the first place. Reaching across the aisle to offer more of the same isn't going to help the country much. His efforts at bipartisan consultation during the bail-out negotiations were... let's be kind... less than successful.
I agree the democratic leadership are very liberal and I can see that this scares conservatives. But Obama won't want to enforce their unfettered agenda upon America because he realises there is a chance it might go wrong, and he will get the blame. Even in a unitary government, there are often very good political reasons for offering bipartisan solutions to situations where no-one can be certain of the outcome.
You may be right that McCain has a better record of bipartisan collaberation than his opponent, but as surely every stockholder in the world is now aware, past performance is not necessarily an indicator of future performance...
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#276. that six-pack - was it the drinkable variety or are you off to the gym?
"Good god no. It was a six-pack of Lipton's Iced Tea I was thinking of ;-)"
Incidentally, "Joe Six Pack" wouldn't be caught dead drinking iced tea! More like six cans of Bud - or in the plumber's case, six cans of Coors.
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DC 278 lol, I think the main difference was that he seemed much less loquatious ...
I like the idea of a pantomime dame though ...
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271, allmymarbles wrote:
257, bk.
I misunderstood your post. I did not realize that we had already attacked Syria. I am not surprised. I have been predicting it in my posts as McCain's last resort in winning the election.
It's not exactgly an 'attack', more of an 'incursion'. But this is how the situation in Pakistan escalated, apparently not only pretty well beyond control, but with minimal dissent.
It seems to me that the Pentagon has effectively been either out of political control, or has been released from it for far too long.
I have never been able to convince myself that there wouild not be some politically and diplomatically disastrous military excursion before the end of the Bush regime.
It seems that the American military has adopted a mindset that it can do anything it pleases regardless of the geopolitical consequences over the last eight years.
It is, I think, an extremely dangerous development and one I doubt McCain would be constitutionally able to reverse, while Obam would not be heeded, any more than I suspect Bush is.
The departure of the Neocons simply left a policy vacuum in which the US has been fumbling around for months. (Georgia being the obvious example.) And in any case, the military seems never to have seen much wrong with the Neocon strategy except that they wanted more men, more guns, more planes and more misslles.
This is what comes of putting your faith in generals. Or Captains, whatever they say.
(Perhaps Drudge 52 might like to address this 'liberal' concern, too? Hint?)
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What concerns me is that some of these conservatives here seem to be clinging to the subjects of Ayres, ACORN, etal, as an excuse to get angry and justify extreme action to 'save America' from Obama.
They simply believe that anyone who doesn't agree with them is an enemy to be struck down, a different set of policies is a plan to destroy the USA, and everyone outside their circle is anti-american. It all sounds apallingly familiar from 20th century history, the threat of the 'other' as an excuse to impose their own beliefs on all.
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How depressing, here we are in what is probably the worst global economic crisis and McCain and Pailn keep talking about trash, while "Rome burns". Obama-Biden are going to win a huge victory and the Democrats will control the House and the Senate. Americans are sick politicians who's only aim is to win.. and not to govern wisely.
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281, bk.
A friend of mine contends that "All politicians are scum." Another says, "Throw the rascals in." My views are not quite as extreme, but when faced with this sort of inhuman strategy I begin to think they are right. Sad business, isn't it.
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279
"In my opinion McCain would be able to bring opposing sides together rather than Obama."
This argument may have held before this election. Now let us look at some of the facts.
Mccain/palin uses the most divisive rhetoric through the campaign.
a) accusation of terrorism roots to Obama’s politics.
b) suggestions of pro/anti regions of America
c) accusations of socialist and now communist ideology in the Obama camp, directly stating that freedom would be lost.
Reality itself does not seem to be an obstacle to the rhetoric.
Obama himself has had hoards of republicans, influential ones at that endorsing him.
So how on earth does anyone come to the conclusion that Mccain can unite the country?
.
I can understand people having differing opinions to me, however so many arguments brought to the table by Republicans are nonsensical. At best they are misguided at worst they are a dangerous form of politics, one in which the primary objective is to win, without coherent and transparent ideology or pragmatism.
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280. At 9:44pm on 26 Oct 2008, oldnat wrote:
#273 british-ish
How can you reply to a post that no longer exists?
Well it did. I didn't imagine it.
Perhaps, since it suggested that a contributor known to be an ardent supporter of both Israel and McCain on this blog might have had similar views to those in the circular, or approved of them, the person thus referred to may have objected to the moderators.
(Yes, I know that's convoluted, but I don't want to fall in the same trap.)
You can read it in the NYT:
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/10/24/pennsylvania-republicans-send-false-anti-obama-e-mail/
I know I'm cycnical, but surely that nasty underhand little ploy can't have been why McCain thought he might make headway in Pennsylvania, something that was puzzling everybody a couple of days ago? It hadn't even occurred to me until just now.
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"283. At 9:58pm on 26 Oct 2008, David_Cunard wrote:
#276. that six-pack - was it the drinkable variety or are you off to the gym?
"Good god no. It was a six-pack of Lipton's Iced Tea I was thinking of ;-)"
Incidentally, "Joe Six Pack" wouldn't be caught dead drinking iced tea! More like six cans of Bud - or in the plumber's case, six cans of Coors."
or in the case of a British plumber a jereboam of the finest Krug
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I believe it was well over 70% of the jews in Germany who for Hitler when he was first elected there also. Remember Hitler was democratically elected by a landslide! This is not to support Hitler obviously, but to point out there is no historical magic in the jewish vote. Voting is an Anglo-Saxon tradition (yes, the Greeks did it too), but why all this interest in other groups, I don't see the importance of it's meaning in an American election today? There is nothing like sound British Democratic Tradition when it's legally held too.
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"274. At 9:30pm on 26 Oct 2008, MagicKirin wrote:
ref #262
More likely All the Marbles or Jackforge who frequently attack Jews and/or Israelis"
As opposed to your frankly unbelievable attitudes to palestinians, black people, native American, etc
Don't know what you feel about the disabled and gays, but one can probably guess.
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allmymarbles
I agree a very sad business. Unfortunatly politics is part of the human condition.
What we need is a philosopher king, but i doubt one exists.
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bk/allmy
I doubt whether what is happening on the Syrian border has anything to do with what you are alluding to. It would have to be a serious attack on Americans/Westerners or a sudden geopolitical crisis. I can understand your concerns, but I doubt whether the current administration has even the competence to manipulate such events, even if they once did. (btw that is not intended to suggest I believe in conspiracy theories regarding 9/11)
Just 8 more days! : )
DC: do you think Dame went to Texas to help out with the GOTV?
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If Obama wins by a large margin, and the Democrats control both houses of congress and the Whitehouse, and have a filibuster-proof majority...
...will that mean that "Real Americans" are now the liberals, the social democrats and the progressives? And that anyone remaining ultra-conservative, disagreeing with the majority of their fellow countrymen, and refusing to support their President is being unpatriotic?
Or will it just mean that America once again becomes the tolerant, inclusive, secular society for everyone that the Founding Fathers envisaged?
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"228. At 6:58pm on 26 Oct 2008, john-In-Dublin wrote:
# 215 Simon21
Simon 21
2. "Not to mention the fact that he is black and is still winning! How dare he!"
I've lost count of the number of times you've said or implied that people who are anti-Obama are racist. Why? What evidence do you have? Yes, no doubt some are - consciously or otherwise. But surely they're entitled to the benefit of the doubt until there's proof? Personally I find this as reprehensible as those who claim any criticism of israel (even from Jews!) is anti-Semitic, or any criticism of Palin or HRC is sexist."
My "evidence" is what they say and how they say it. We hace had comments here that imply Obama can't think for himself, got into Uni unfairly, has not acheived anything, is not really American, etc, etc.
These are traditional views of the black who cannot achieve anything fairly or without white assistance and who is, as a matter of course, dishonest.
And who because he is trying for office, malignant
Frankly it has been unbelievable, like hearing the soundtrack from a 1930's movie.
It is noticeable that one of Obama's most virulent critics here also hates Nelson Mandela, Palestinians (all of them apparently) etc.
I think that is rather telling.
"At the risk of stating the bleedin' obvious, let me explain why
[a] Because it's wrong to falsely accuse without evidence"
Indeed but I have the evidence of my own eyes. And so do you.
"[b] Because of the little boy who cried wolf. The little shepherd boy had fun by crying wolf and watching the villagers run. Then the wolf came. He cried wolf. They ignored him. Similarly it seems to me there's a great risk that people will point to genuine racism/sexism/anti-semitism - and they will be ignored, because people have 'cried wolf' too often."
Maybe, but there is also nothing to be gained by appeasing bigots. Time has shown you do not combat rascists by giving them the benefit of the doubt.
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289. bk9061 wrote:
"So how on earth does anyone come to the conclusion that Mccain can unite the country?"
At the point of a gun, CS gas canister, pepper spray or taser?
(Not my idea. But I've seen enough hysterical allusions to the likelihood of that whoever wins.)
.
Until I started reading this blog, I would never have believed that US society could become that divided or antaganistic. At least not short of another Civil Rights campaign or a Vietnam.
But some of the views expressed here, some of the political 'comment' (I call it rabble-rousing), some of the American press, talkshows, all the stuff I'd never read or seen before, and the sheer vitriol of this campaign, have made me rather unsure.
Add that to what looks sometimes like a rather unstable society with dreadful deprivation and dereliction in some areas, children who kill their fellow students in schols and then themselves with what looks from Europe like shocking frequency . . .Mix in, at best, a recession, at worst a depression with no real safety net or so far considered or practicabla policy on either side to get out of it, and I wonder.
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Can anyone on the right here suggest a meaningful way forward for the GOP, or are we looking at the possibility of a new political party/ies?
Interested ...
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"267. At 9:01pm on 26 Oct 2008, Drudge52 wrote:
It all comes down to Obama`s judgement and his affiliations.Are you saying it is not right to ask these legitimate questions?
Perfectly legitimate, save for the fact that questioners do not seem interested in the answers.
So they are, in fact, not questions at all, but NKVD-like demands for some sort of confession. As such they, and the interrogators are treated with appropriate contempt.
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293. Simon21 wrote:
"Don't know what you feel about the disabled and gays, but one can probably guess."
As they say where I come from, "If you don't ask you don't get."
Hello, MagicKirin:
I'm disabled. (I'm perfectly serious. I have a disability registration card and number from my local council. And though I use a crutch mostly, I quite often have to use a wheelchair, so we're not mucking about with ingrowing toenaoils here, just to get things clear at the start.)
We would like to hear your views on disability. You can even refer to me as a 'cripple' if you like; I'm not that fussed about the words.
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A question for those of you who are on the right: why do you think it is that you are losing moderate republicans and independants to Obama. Rather than fulminating against the press, liberal conspiricies and the shocking fact that the dems have raised more money than you, don't you need to do a little analysis?
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ref #297
I still see Simon is still playing the race card.
Lets get some facts straight.
1. Obama is multi ethnic
2. My opposition to him is similar to what it was to John Edwards: Resume and polcies. In fact if the choice was between the 2 I would take Obama.
3. I never stated that I hated Mandela. I think his failure in zimbabwe and his refusal to denounce terrorism opens him up to criticism
4. I do think that Desmond Tutu is a bigot and Kofi Annan failed as U.N Chief and has the blood of thousands on his hands in Darfur, Rwanda and Israel
5. In regard to the Palestinians my point is simple : One side has tried to make peace and has a proven track record, the other side elects terrorists. Those are facts. And yes Israel is more important to the U.S and U.K than the Palestinians
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Obama drew over 100,000 in Denver
Rocky Mountain high
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300. Simon21 wrote:
"questioners do not seem interested in the answers. So they are, in fact, not questions at all, but NKVD-like demands for some sort of confession."
They're just not the right kind of answers.
I think we are supposed to quote Marx, maybe Regis Debray, refer offhand to the Weathermen manifesto, the Beveredge plan, Keynes, dictatorship of the proletariat, a politbureau or two, five-year plans, nationalisation, compulsory atheism, abortion at 30 weeks, that sort of thing.
(Only trying to help.)
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In contrast to the above,
Here is some comment from a sane Israeli:
"..The choice testifies to a basic flaw in McCain's character. He chose her because of the needs of the moment - to revive a flagging campaign and surprise the media, while appealing to the most primitive strata of American society. He jeopardized the future of the country for momentary expediency.
A person who is capable of making such a mistake should not be in a position to lead the most powerful country and to command the strongest military force on earth.
Moreover, the voter must ask himself or herself: if the President suffers a stroke…"
http://zope.gush-shalom.org/home/en/channels/avnery/1224968257/
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latest polls: Obama ahead by 13 in PA, 6 behind in WV, and only 2 behind in ... AZ!
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My personal projection is that,
if elected,
McCain/Palin:
(1) Will establish miitary conscription
(2) Attack Iran
(3) Seek to defeat depression/recession with a war economy.
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#290 brutish-ish:
Every election I've ever seen has been rancorous. It comes with the territory.
In the end, when the dust settles, most everybody settles down and gets on with it. If the new president does a good job, everybody will say they voted for him-go figure.
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british-ish
I think my experience of these elections are similar to yours, very eye-opening.
I have plenty of criticism of America but also believe that some (not all) of the most progressive politics and ideas we owe to them.
Talking about eye-opening, this
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00f08h0
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00dzbq5
Was by far the most enlightening.
If anyone has not already watched the 3 part series, I recommend them highly. I would be interesting also to get an American reaction to it, not sure if it available outside the UK.
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In the interests of balance and to give some heart to McCain supporters, todays MO polls suggest a tie, also in MN McCain by 5, and in WI Obama by a mere 7. The rest are pretty much as they were ...
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299. At 10:32pm on 26 Oct 2008, selfevidenttruths wrote:
Can anyone on the right here suggest a meaningful way forward for the GOP, or are we looking at the possibility of a new political party/ies?
Interested ...
Not from this side of the Atlantic, I'm afraid. The corresponding situation here depended on having a leader and thrashing out (more or less by trial and error) a fairly comprehensive set of policies that would attract the electorate he next time round.
In the case of both the Labour and Conservative parties, it took years, and the French Socialist Party is now in the same boat.
I can't really see how that sort of long-term strategy can really take root unless there was some way of choosing a 'party leader' who wouldn't be a candidate for the presidency to get both policies and congressmen and senators together in advance.
Otherwise, it's going to be a somewhat ad hoc arrangement, with the risk of it all coming apart at any moment, just as both parties did over the bailout.
It's an intriguing question. I would think the structure of the party would have to change. Perhaps a strong local base with enough cohesion to influence state and national candidates in the future, but whether that would be possible without a total collapse of a party, I don't know.
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309. At 11:00pm on 26 Oct 2008, lochraven wrote:
#290 brutish-ish
Have the courtesy to get the pseudonym right, please, or I will ignore you.
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majic here we go again
"mandela......refusal to denounce terrorism"
Here is food for thought on terrorism,
"Up until July 2008, Mandela and ANC party members were barred from entering the United States —except the United Nations headquarters in Manhattan— without a special waiver from the US Secretary of State, due to their designation as terrorists by the former South African apartheid regime"
This is a man who has won the Nobel Peace prize. I think that alone has more weight than your redundant arguments.
The words terrorist and terrorism is banded around like a political football to manupilate the likes of me and you.
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303. MagicKirin, none of those are 'facts' merely your opinions, as so many have had the opportunity to point out before since you post them every day.
But what do you mean by 'multi-ethnic'? I simply don;t understand..
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bk: agreed, there is also the excellent radio series 'Empire of Liberty' on Radio 4's website. Am not sure if anyone outside of the UK can recieve it, but if you can it would be great to get some American reaction.
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308. At 10:59pm on 26 Oct 2008, Xie_Ming wrote:
My personal projection is that,
if elected,
McCain/Palin:
(1) Will establish miitary conscription
(2) Attack Iran
(3) Seek to defeat depression/recession with a war economy.
They already have a war economy, whicih is now in recession, and the first two propositions are dependent on the success of the third.
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303, ubermensch.
Your point number five - Israelis, good; Palestinians, bad - is shopworn and only read for laughs.
It is with great pleasure that I will see your warmongering soul mate, Joe Lieberman, go down in flames come January. The weasel, seeing his position, is trying to get back in the good graces of Obama. Big laugh. In January the Republican won't want him either.
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312 British-ish: you may be under the impression I'm American, I'm on the same side of the pond as you. With regard to my question about the rebuilding of the GOP, it was partly prompted by reading about the appointment of Howard Dean and his espousal of the 50 state strategy - one that certainly seems to be working.
It strikes me that as with old labour and the tories of late, the GOP has fragmented into a group of mutually exclusive constituencies, and that their anti-intellectual approach has left them unable to articulate an overall philosophy which can somehow accomodate these - I guess I am agreeing with you. It will be interesting to see what the more thoughtful commentators on the right say over the next few weeks ...
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295, selfevident.
I am not saying the Syrian ploy will be successful in turning the voters. After all, the Republicans have guessed wrong consistently, how can they get it right now? But I do think the timing was intentional. I also think that Obama plans well ahead and was prepared for this contingency.
An example of Republican screwed up thinking is McCain's trying to win Iowa and Pennsylvania - two states that are solid Obama. I tell myself that there is something there that I don't know, that they could not be that dumb. But....
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
317, ish-ish.
If they do that, will Europe follow? Put another way, is there somewhere for me to hide?
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allmy I can understand your concern, but at the risk of sticking my neck out I would say that PA and IA are solid blue. McCain should maybe be campaigning in his own state, it is getting very close there. Still, am counting no chickens but he has very little time left.
Faith, hope and charity (to the loser)
Peace and goodnight all : )
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310. bk9061
I'm not a great fan of Simon Schama as a historian per se, but it is interesting.
I'd be curious to know what the American contributors here thought too.
Popped by to say thanks.
Anyway, I'm off back to finish watching.
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I said goodnight, but may turn up later, these discussions are kind of addictive!
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British-ish,
Sounds more Irish to me.Folks, Just a timely reminder that the latest 'episode' of Simon Schama's excellent American Future series is now available.
Well worth the effort!
Peace and History
ed
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285, ish-ish.
'It seems that the American military has adopted a mindset that it can do anything it pleases regardless of the geopolitical consequences over the last eight years.
"It is, I think, an extremely dangerous development and one I doubt McCain would be constitutionally able to reverse, while Obam would not be heeded, any more than I suspect Bush is."
I see it differently. I think Bush and McCain were both in on it, in an effort to turn the tide of the election. The timing is all too suspicious. As to the situation being reversible, that is no problem. When General MacArthur defied President Truman concerning Korea, Truman got rid of him. It is the president who is the commander-in-chief, the Pentagon be damned.
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bk9061 and selfevidenttruths I forgot, and it's totally off-topic, but have you noticed the volume on the BBC iPlayer goes up to 11? :-D
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#293. Simon21: re MagicK "Don't know what you feel about the disabled and gays, but one can probably guess."
Rather than guessing, perhaps MagicKirin can explain his own position on these two groups. But no quotations from Leviticus, please otherwise we have to ask if you cut your hair and so forth.
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allmy
(I could'n't stay away! ... just had to leave work and get home ... the moderation queue had'n't moved anyway ...)
Regards the polling, it would appear that significant changes have taken place. Wherever McCain goes now another state that should be secure for him moves into the toss up catagory. Yesterday Obama
+1 in GA. Today O down by just 2 in AZ.
While the national polls are static at around
+7 for Obama, most of the movement in the battleground states, while slight, is towards Obama. There is much hope ...
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328 ish - yep! was someone a fan of Spinal Tap? lol
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McCain has a taste for glitzy woman but in Palin's case you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear, no matter how much you spend on haute couture.She is a perfect foil for comedy as she speaks a dialect with no "G" at the end of any word ,an uninformed faker who is trying to sell tickets to the bumpkins to see the 3 headed Eskimo in this travelling circus I am expecting the dancing elephants followed by a cannon shot by which the Republicans erroneously fire Obama into the White House.McCain ain't no Barnum!
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allmy if it comes to that I would suggest New Zealand ...
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No comment necessary
Peace is possible
ed
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BBC
I know people sometimes miss the reversal to GMT from Summer Time - but it's now 20 hours since it took place.
How about getting the times right?
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#267 Drudge,
Lets go a point at a time.
The guys name was Joe. I don't do anything I don't have a license for or that is illegal in the jurisdiction in which I am in.
The 95% is worked by including Social Security payments as a Federal tax, which it is. By the way it also extremely regressive since it is capped such that the poor pay 7.65% of their income up to $97k and change. But that is an aside. Those working poor folks who don't pay federal income tax but pay social security will get a credit.
McCain has never occupied any executive or command position with any responsibility for other human beings or executive decisions. Not once. As a pilot he was responsible for himself and a piece of kit. As a senator he sits around waiting for the opportunity to wrote a document.
Obama has help leadership positions, several times, running a staff in various organizations and as faculty in Chicago. McCain has had one or two chances during the campaign to show his executive decision making. On these occasions he has:
- We don;t really need to discuss the wisdom of his choice for runnning mate again, do we?
- Taken an aggressive line with Russia to the point of potentially starting an armed conflict or a very cold war with Russia
- Bottling it over the economy, suspending his camapign and then waffling all over the place while being effectively 'bitch slapped' by his own party
- Suspended his campaign again when a Democrat house member said some fairly nasty things about him. Will he stop everything each time Chavez or someone else calls him names?
- Shown he is unable to control his campaign team as they brief against each other and his running mate
Obama on the other hand has shown calm decision making. More importanbtly he has surrounded himself with a cadre of well respected, mature statespeople including Colin Powell, Buffett et al.
On the question of affiliations, a lot of time has been focused on his links to folks which is legitimate. It's also legitimate to point out these affiliations are weak at best. McCains contacts with folks like Abramhoff, Rove, Bush, Pinochet and so on are a matter of public record. As is his voting record. These are also legitimate concerns.
One final point is temperament. McCain has shown to be erratic and emotional, Obama calm and collected.
Licensed Blogger Sam
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Dear Mr. Webb.
1) It is Dubyuh. The 'Y' is essential, as in, 'Why the hell are we in this mess anyway?' -- a perfect segue to my comment to #68 scaredhockeydad:
2) It only APPEARS that we have an elected democracy in America. We actually have a plutocracy, government by those who have wealth, or power derived from wealth. Look at the 2000 election: The vote went for VP Gore, but the election was manouevered to be a win for Mr. Bush through pressure applied on friends of his family's networks: the various officials on Florida, and our Supreme Court.
The Supreme Court is not supposed to be involved in our electoral process. Period. The election process was hijacked. And observers to the US elections have not been permitted since that time. (We are very distrustful of the new machines that do not produce a paper record, that can be changed remotely by someone altering the code).
In fact, we have become a very distrustful people, since about 1972 or so.
I am glad you are able to vote democratically where you live now, but many people here do not believe that their vote will be counted accurately. We learned too much in 2000 to trust in the electoral process any more. I too, hope that, IN CASE our votes are not tampered with, people will vote with their intellects, but unfortunately, Americans all too often vote out of fear and ignorance. The current campaign has made appeals to both of those characteristics, and will continue to do so until the day of election.
3) There was a comment made that it seemed as if the Republicans WANT to lose . . . perhaps they do, so that they can blame any failure on Sen. Obama and the Democrats. It is a very sad state of affairs that an election should come to this. But I cannot otherwise explain the extraordinary failure(s) in the campaign of Sen. McCain and Gov. Palin.
4) At the same time, I wonder who is allowing Sen. Obama to play the game? Usually, being involved in the big time, the real power game, is only permitted to players who have racked up significant debts to other players -- and Sen. Obama hasn't been playing long enough to qualify. He may have the power base and fan appeal among the American people, but what does he "have" on big business, the corporated power structure, and the Washington inside power game?
That is the real question.
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"303. At 10:43pm on 26 Oct 2008, MagicKirin wrote:
ref #297
I still see Simon is still playing the race card.
Lets get some facts straight."
Do I see a confession coming on?
"1. Obama is multi ethnic"
Blackness is not a sign of ethnicity though genius.
Is it.
Since you do not know even this basic fact, your comments on rascism are invalid and my point stands.
2"My opposition to him is similar to what it was to John Edwards: Resume and polcies. In fact if the choice was between the 2 I would take Obama."
Statements are not actually fact. I don't expect you to admit your prejudices.
" I never stated that I hated Mandela. I think his failure in zimbabwe and his refusal to denounce terrorism opens him up to criticism"
But why him? Why not any number of white leaders? like those in power who can do something?
Why him?
And yes we can really beleive you are desperately concerned about the people in Zimbabwe.
" I do think that Desmond Tutu is a bigot and Kofi Annan failed as U.N Chief and has the blood of thousands on his hands in Darfur, Rwanda and Israel"
Yes and the reason you donot like allthese black people is because of my comment earlier.
I've no doubt you also hate Martin Luther King.
You prove my point thanks.
You remind me of the old Afrikaaner who wan't prejudiced, it was "just common sense, I've nothing against black people man - in their place."
5"In regard to the Palestinians my point is simple : One side has tried to make peace and has a proven track record, the other side elects terrorists. Those are facts. And yes Israel is more important to the U.S and U.K than the Palestinians"
The fact is you hate the Palesitnians as a people, and that is prejudice. Sorry simple fact.
it wouldn't matter if the palestinians elected the corpse of Saddam hussein and cloned him with Hitler.
Bigotry against a whole ethnic group, is unacceptable whoever and whatever that group is.
Which is why pretending you care for the people of Zimbabwe comes across as so risible.
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I should further clarify, what large corporate concerns stand to profit by having Sen.Obama in the White House?
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329. David_Cunard wrote:
#293. Simon21: re MagicK "Don't know what you feel about the disabled and gays, but one can probably guess."
Rather than guessing, perhaps MagicKirin can explain his own position on these two groups. But no quotations from Leviticus, please otherwise we have to ask if you cut your hair and so forth.
I am (disabled, that is) and I asked. Directly. Still waiting.
(No good. You'll have to explain the Leviticus thing. Not a clue.)
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Stiff cardboard cutouts, how appropriate. Any attraction by this "un-dynamic" duo is only a passing phase. In two weeks they will be history as "could-a" been contenders.
Now if only I could find my paintball gun....
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295, selfevident.
It is now some hours since the attack on Syria, too soon to see a change in the polls, but not too early to see a change in betting odds. I guess the ploy didn't work, at least not yet. McCain has dropped from 13.5 to 12.5, the lowest thus far.
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#303
Magic,
On the subject of Mandela, the man is retired. The Zimbabwe crisis did not happen on his watch, it happened on Thabo Mbeki's. That Mugabe is allowed to continue his games without a good slapping from someone is a disgrace.
I should also mention that Nelson Mandela is someone who was accused of terrorism and after capture (in no small part thanks to the CIA) he was imprisoned on Robben Island for 18 years and in other places for another 9.
When released he helped dismantle one of the worlds nastier forms of government peacably and became the most widely admired leader in African history. For this he won the Nobel Peace prize.
Which just goes to show.
Prison works.
Admirer Sam
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Sam, I,m sure you know, but just in case ... Michelle is going to be on the Tonight Show Monday.
; )
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Is Palin really going to be groomed as the GOP's choice for 2012? There are a few hints, but it seems unbelievable!
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#298
Ish,
I think the thing you have to live here to understand is we have a very high tolerance for crazies, to the point where lots of them have TV or Radio shows ar can even get elected.
But most of us are nice and get on really well with each other. Most of the time.
Pax vobiscum
Sam
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Too bad those placards of Mc Cain and Palin cant be changed a bit
Mc Cain can have a T shirt on that says I'm with Stupid!
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So is this Mc Cain secret card?
"US attack inside Syria border."
Maybe a few days later,
"US attack inside Iran border."
Another war for election? As if the georgia attack isn't enough?
Last few weeks of Bush is really scary. Maybe he need to be impreached after all.
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#205
Mailman,
Could I observe that the reason there are more bad stories about Palin in particular (because let's be honest, there are few really nasty stories about either McCain or Obama out there in the MSM) is because there is a lot of mud to find, compounded by some stupid decisions. If John had picked someone who didn't have an ethics investigation on and a history of grasping every penny in expenses and freebies she can get, there wouldn;t be anything to write about.
Journalist Sam
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
ref #318
As usual you are are repeating the same mantra marbles.
If you actually read instead of your obvious hatread of jews and Israelis, you would realize I've pointed out facts.
But you keep the Protocols of Zion by your bedside
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ref #315
It's quite obvious you don't understand because for you ignorance is bliss.
Obama come froma background that is not strictly African.
It's interesting that you Simon, Dublin and others bring up the he is black comment. And I don't.
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cassandrina (post #9) wrote:
"Any way its "Dubyah" and I have not been in USA for some time".
casNJ53 (post #337) wrote: "Dear Mr. Webb.
1) It is Dubyuh. The 'Y' is essential, as in, 'Why the hell are we in this mess anyway?'"
You're both wrong. Justin Webb was not referring to George W. Bush; he was referring to a blog participant who goes by the name of "Dubuh".
Justin was even kind enough to provide a link to a recent post by Dubuh, which has since been moderated (here: http://tinyurl.com/5cfkbe).
So no, it is not "Dubyah" or "Dubyuh". It is "Dubuh".
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#337
Cas,
In answer to your point 4.
Me.
Grand Master Sam
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#341
Brian,
I recommend a 12 gauge.
Gunner Sam
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The GOP attitude right now is so angry and defensive - I don't really understand it - it is almost as if they are offended that people don't take their exagerations seriously. It is like they blame the media for the fact that their message and presentation stink. Political campaigns like kindergarten playgrounds as usual.
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#340. british-ish: "I am (disabled, that is) and I asked. Directly. Still waiting.
(No good. You'll have to explain the Leviticus thing. Not a clue.)"
You're so well read, I'm surprised. The rabid Republican right, Evangelicals, Catholics, uncle Tom Cobley and all, usually resort to quoting the Old Testament Book of Leviticus, particularly chapters 18 and 20, in an effort to condemn gays to' the fires of eternal damnation'. The prohibitions and "abominations" in the same book include, for example, the cutting of one's hair, eating shellfish and pork. One cannot cherry pick from the list, either they should accept the lot or none. But they pick one verse to suit their agenda, as I suspect MagicKirin might if he ever answered the question.
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#344
Thank you,
I didn't. I'll set the DVR.
Grateful Sam
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allmy (342)
I would hope with all my heart that they would'n't, but if they did I think in would be on home soil - an outrage. I hate to speak of such things ... trust in a better world : )
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Sam (343) Bravo! and LOL!
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#345. selfevidenttruths: "Is Palin really going to be groomed as the GOP's choice for 2012?"
I think $150,000's worth of grooming is quite enough, thank you!
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John McCain said today that he was "sure" they were going to win. Also, they they would be up late election night. That is an unsettling comment. I hope they do not have anything up their sleve like, Ohio. One more point, I think it is outdated and absurd that 1 state can decide the fate of the next 4 years of the U.S.
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allmy:
it is curious ...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7692263.stm
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#357
David,
If you take that text back to the Aramaic you'll find that the text refers to Catamites. Which is criminal and for lots of reasons should be condemned.
I would also observe to those who claim Christianity as a reason for being against homosexuality. Christians are supposed to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ. Who was silent on the issue.
Ecumenical Sam
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DC (361) lol!
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its the amount of lipstick ...
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#360
Self,
Credit for that punchline has to go to Ricky Gervaise.
Plagiarist Sam
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allmy: in 359 that should 'outrage', a subtle but important difference.
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69. At 08:33am on 26 Oct 2008, David_Cunard wrote:
You are absolutely right. I misspoke. If any of you crazies still think he was not born in the U.S. you can go here:
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2008/jun/27/obamas-birth-certificate-part-ii/
or any of the other 8000 websites deticated to this. Honestly if he was not born here, Fox news would have made a huge fuss. But, they have nothing. Happy voting America! I got my ballot and I am voting early.
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# 352 MagicKirin
"It's interesting that you Simon, Dublin and others bring up the he is black comment. And I don't."
I assume I am 'Dublin'
No idea what on earth the claim that I "bring up the he is black comment" is supposed to mean.
I assume it's another lie.
Stay classy, Magic.
And don't let the facts interfere with your prejudices.
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Obama's ethnicity is relevant in the sense that it is historic for a non-white candidate to run for President for a major political party.
It shouldn't be relevant as to whether or not you should vote for him. But America is not an ideal world, it is a nation where race is still a powerful and divisive issue. Hence you have black people voting en masse for him simply because he is black, and pockets of white people refusing to vote for him simply because he is not white. And you have people like Murtha saying nasty things about Western Pennsylvania, which is a dumb distraction (but provided an amusing McCain gaffe).
Arguing that Obama is NOT in fact black, on the basis that his mother is white (or that his father's ancesters were Arabic) is even more of an irrelevance. It's not going to stop black people voting for him, it's not going to convince racists to vote for him, and it's not going to change the historic status of his nomination or of his probable election. So that is as far into that particular debate as any sensible person needs to go.
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allmy: to further clarify I meant an apparent terrorist attack on the west, or western interests - I live in the UK so ..
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357.David_Cunard
Well, I was brought up mostly on the New Testament, you see. And only things like Absalom getting his hair caught in the tree or Jonah and the Whale from the Old Testament. You know, the fun stuff. Skipped the boring bits.
Hmm. so getting your hair cut is 'an abomination'? How interesting. The thing I always notice about those fire-breathing evangelicals is their posh haircuts. What a waste, if they're all doomed. I could have used that, I fought for years trying to keep my hair long.
The only people I know who never cut their hair are Sikhs. So this Christian Evangelical Heaven will be full of Sikhs? And empty of Christian Evangelical preachers? Must tell my neighbour that. (He's a Sikh.)
Er, anybody got an update on when Sarah Palin last went to the hairdresser? Just so long as it's often . . .
Still no word from Magic. He seems to be avoiding the issue. Takes a while to read through Leviticus, does it?
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Sam (367) very honest, but well used.
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Rogue stuff
Peace and roguery
ed
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297 Simon21
"My "evidence" is what they say and how they say it. We hace had comments here that imply Obama can't think for himself, got into Uni unfairly, has not acheived anything, is not really American, etc, etc./These are traditional views of the black who cannot achieve anything fairly or without white assistance and who is, as a matter of course, dishonest."
I still think your argument is fundamentally flawed.
To prove racism, you need to demonstrate that a critic of Obama is saying anything that they wouldn't say if Obama were white - or more accurately, if both of his parents had been white and not 1. [Or indeed if a white candidate were running.]
The best analogy I can give is almost identical to the argument you use. If someone criticises Palin as uneducated, ill-informed, or unready for high office, and someone else says 'But that's just what sexists have traditionally said about women - therefore you're a sexist', do you accept their logic? I doubt it.
I disagree with Magic on pretty much everything and have done at length. He's clearly a mass of prejudices. But when he criticises Mandela for not attacking Mugabe - a monster, most of whose victims are black - you decide he's lying.
"Maybe, but there is also nothing to be gained by appeasing bigots. Time has shown you do not combat rascists by giving them the benefit of the doubt."
Your logic is circular. Time has also shown that you do not combat racism, sexism, anti-semitism etc by claiming their existence every time a member of a minority, or a woman, or a Jew [or indeed the State of Israel] is criticised.
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364. (SamTyler1969)
and 357 (David)
Well, I'm humbled. You've proved definiitively I come from a godforsaken nation. Two or three contributors here will be pleased to have it confirmed . . .
I have often wondered why the so-called Christian Right never seems to mention the Sermon on the Mount. Or very much from the New Testament at all unless it's Paul being mean or the more violent bits of Revelations. Not a lot of Christ in it at all as far as I can see.
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#364. SamTyler1969: "If you take that text back to the Aramaic you'll find that the text refers to Catamites. Which is criminal and for lots of reasons should be condemned.'
Catamites or not, the verses are frequently used by churches and so-called moralists to justify their position.
"I would also observe to those who claim Christianity as a reason for being against homosexuality. Christians are supposed to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ. Who was silent on the issue."
Something which the gay community knows all too well, but the "Christians" who condemn gays don't, or won't, accept that important detail; they accept the Old Testament as part of "the word of God" and consequently everything in it which suits them. It hardly need to be said that many of these actually believe the world was created in six days and that Eve came from a rib. Some bone!
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ed 375: thank you lol
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363. selfevidenttruths
As I said before, the Syrians at least usually manage to stay cool. After all, the original report came from their news agency, and they were careful not to make any definitive statement or apportion immediate blame.
But this is very, very, foolish behaviour.
It's not only Palin who's going 'rogue' by the look of it, if Jonathan Marcus is right when he writes it would have required a policy decision 'at the highest level'. That means Bush, fair and square, doesn't it?
I don't think we are at the stage of "pouring petrol on a growing fire" but somebody needs to take the little boy's matches off him pretty quickly.
After all, Georgia would not have done what it did in South Ossetia without believing they had US support, and they obviously had that impression. All we need is for the more hawklike Israelis to get the idea they've been given a nod and a wink, and there really will be trouble.
Of course, we will no doubt hear from the Pentagon via its tame supine spineless American reporters there that they were in 'hot pursuit of terrorists' or even they'd spotted Bin Laden and dropped John McCain in to 'get him'.
Even if it turns out it was a family's birthday party, no doubt the same feeble despicable excuse I heard from an American military spokesman will be trotted out again. "The bad guys have weddings too," he said after a wedding celebration had been bombed to smithereens. But no-one was left alive to be asked whether they were 'goodies' or 'baddies'.
You do wonder if this is just the beginning of something nefarious that is what makes McCain so oddly optimistic of late. If it does turn out like that, all I can say is that the US will never be trusted by any country in the world whoever becomes President for a generation.
Oh except maybe Pakistan while 'Mr Ten Percent" is President. At least while he gets paid his ten per cent in dollars. But he would take his ten per cent from anybody, so I wouldn't even bank on that.
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#377. british-ish wrote: "and 357 (David)
Well, I'm humbled. You've proved definiitively I come from a godforsaken nation."
Same here - born in the West Country, raised in Oxford, baptised in Reading and confirmed in Newbury. Mostly raised on the NT and taught that it, being new, took precedence over the old.
Don't know about Sam though; I think he's US born and bred.
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More funny videos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrEsUtG1U0k
[Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]
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352. MagicKirin wrote:
ref #315
"It's quite obvious you don't understand because for you ignorance is bliss.
Obama come froma background that is not strictly African."
I'm going to be patient, but only this once, because I find your continual insinuations both tiresome and childish.
You described him as "multi-ethnic'. To me, that would mean, say, someone had an ancestry that included, say Caucasian, Semitic, African, or Asian, in any combination through parents and grandparents, butnecessarily more than two of those ethnicities over the generations.
As I understand it, Barack Obama's mother was white Caucasian and his father was African. That does not mean 'multi-ethnic' to me.
If you mean to assert that he has some other ancestry, damn well say so, but don't accuse me of being ignorant merely for not accepting one of your assertions regardless of its truthfulness or susceptibility to proof.
Now, several of us would like to hear your opinion on disabled people. Of which group (or 'ethnicity' if that is what you think the word means) I am one. Or was effectively calling me 'ignorant' it?
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What happens when you put a complete tryo in the cockpit behind the controls of the most powerful thing that was ever created by human beings at a time when that thing is going haywire? I don't know but if the election goes as we expect it to, we will start finding out in three months when Pesident Obama assumes office. Unfortunately, with the mess the entire world is in, there is no eject button because there is no safe place to eject to. Looks like we'll have to pray that he doesn't crash this thing straight into the ground but that's how it's looking.
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#383. british-ish to MagicKirin: "Now, several of us would like to hear your opinion on disabled people."
Not to mention those who have an "alternative lifestyle".
I expect the election will be over before there's a reply to either request.
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I realize how hard your job is right now. Things are so angry and such a mess. For all my contriversial statements, I am a student of history, try my best NEVER to lie or misinform anyone and in this very difficult time remain a loyal Anglo-American for freedom and justice. I see Many misconceptions and plain lies that have creept into popular thought often produced by bad propaganda like education, pure rascism and and a media playing to the the rabble (I use this word with much thought, "masses" just does not capture the true meaning of what is now out there), not educated, thinking, well meaning people. Through all of this, I feel strongly people like me are the first VICTIMS in these wars of words and street fighting. I know I make statements that require some checking, like the one in my last post where I state as a fact, the jews were a large block who voted for Adolph Hitler in his first national German election. Now as contriversial as this is, I know this is a historical fact. History has many strage twists. At this point, I want to bring up a point in general about my "comments". I see where those that call me names get published almost immediately, while my comments take a long time to be reviewed. Again I know your very busy right now, but why do my thoughts take so long, even when published, and those who seem to have little or know idea of historical facts, get their often prejudiced, unsupported comments, published quickly? Maybe it is just because my comments contain facts and ideas, while other call names? Maybe it is just easier to go with the popular flow, right or wrong? With all my anger and frustration at what is happening in America, the UK and the world right now, I believe the BBC is the last major sourse of freedom and reason in the media world. I do see a liberal, racial biais but not always and I do sincerely believe the BBC is "FAIR". Again you may be the last great hope for a free press in the English Speaking World, lord nows American media is just no longer trusted. The BBC may realize this from the way comments are made and sources used by Americans. There is a different standard used in comments by most British writers, and it shows. Of course, there are alot of just very cynical or crazy folks too today. I appeal to you to have my comments, if fitting your rules, are published fast enough to do some good. The BBC is the last line of free speech left to most of us in this sad, angry, confused world. Please help save freedom. Sincerely, RWB
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#386. rwbennett: "I know I make statements that require some checking, like the one in my last post where I state as a fact, the jews were a large block who voted for Adolph Hitler in his first national German election."
It would be helpful - and I'm not being facetious - if you provided a source for your supposition, or better still, a link to it. It's no good making such statements and then leave it to everyone to do the checking - you have to do it first and provide the evidence. I don't know if Germany kept records of what ethnic or religious background her voters had pre-Hitler, but perhaps you know and could explain how you came to this conclusion. It's the same with other inflammatory statements; everyone is prepared to listen or read, providing that there is some genuine back-up. Unsupported comments from yourself are liable to be ridiculed, but if you can provide the relevant evidence, then please do so. It's really that simple.
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I believe it was well over 70% of the jews in Germany who voted for Hitler when he was first elected there also. Remember Hitler was democratically elected by a landslide! This is not to support Hitler obviously, but to point out there is no historical magic in the jewish vote. Voting is an Anglo-Saxon tradition (yes, the Greeks did it too), but why all this interest in other groups, I don't see the importance of it's meaning in an American election today? There is nothing like sound British Democratic Tradition when it's legally held too.
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John-in-Dublin, Too True and several others:
Forgive me for a bit of generalisation, but in my time on this planet, I've come to discover that there are roughly 4 groups of people...
1) Those who are ignorant (I didn't say stupid) and are content in their limited knowledge. (dumb-asses)
2) Those who are ignorant, but want to learn (searchers).
3) Those who are knowledgeable and want to spread the wealth of their knowledge (teachers).
4) Those who are knowledgeable and flaunt it at every chance (smart-asses).
I have been following Justin's blogs for some time now, and have generally seen that most of the knowledgeable people on this site are more than willing to enter into a peaceful exchange and share their knowledge. They've helped my understanding somewhat.
They have also been, in my opinion, more than patient with the people who refuse to research and learn something. These people just keep ranting on about the same talking points that have been long since refuted. I understand their frustration.
Unfortunately, in this day and age, we are overloaded with information (most of it spurious), and it has become the responsibility of us all to check our sources and investigate as many 'information' sources as we can, to try to prove their veracity.
I do not see that happening in most cases with the ranters. One or two have softened their tenor (you know who you are). This sucks all the fun out of what should be polite discourse and sharing of thoughts.
So I suggest you ask yourself to which of the above groups you belong and guide yourself accordingly. There is a question mark key on your keyboard, you know.
There is always someone who is smarter than you and there is always someone more ignorant.
When your mouth is open your ears don't work.
Pax and love dove to all!
Jeff
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John-in-Dublin:
I think I mistakenly named you in my recent post. My sincere apologies! I meant Drudge52.
There has been so much quoting here that I got confused as to who said what.
Sorry, Jeff
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388 rwbennett wrote:
"I believe it was well over 70% of the jews in Germany who voted for Hitler when he was first elected there also. Remember Hitler was democratically elected by a landslide!"
According to Wikipedia, in the election before Hitler became Chancellor, the Nazis got 33% of the vote. At the subsequent one they got 44% , and were the largest party, but did not have an overall majority.
I would be interested to see your evidence of [a] a landslide and [b] Jews voting for Hitler at a far higher % than the rest of the population - or indeed at the same % as the rest of the population, since AFAIK Hitler never made a secret of his anti-semitism.
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#267 Drudge
"It all comes down to Obama`s judgement and his affiliations.Are you saying it is not right to ask these legitimate questions?"
No, he's saying that they've already been asked...and answered.
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390 Alaska-me-Hardplace
That's OK.
They used to say here 'it could happen to a Bishop'.
[However, that was in the days before things started happening to Bishops.]
Having said that
[a] I was just on the point of sending a rather terse response to you
[b] While I doubt that Drudge52 is keen on being mistaken for me, I can assure him that I'm anything but pleased to be mistaken for him.
[c] I'd also point out an alternative theory. There are two types of people - people who believe that there are two types of people and...
[d] Rather akin to the other theory, that 62.7% of all statistics are made up on the spot.
And now that I've probably proved myself to be a [would-be] smart-arse - I'm off to bed.
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I've been thinking this for a while so I might as well air it here. I honestly never thought we'd see such a thing in our country - not yet anyway - but I sense what's occurring in this election is a recklessness and abandonment of rationality that has preceded the voluntary surrender of liberty and security in other places. I can't help but observe that even some conservatives are caught in the moment as their attempts at explaining their support for Barack Obama are unpersuasive and even illogical. And the pull appears to be rather strong. Ken Adelman, Doug Kmiec, and others, reach for the usual platitudes in explaining themselves but are utterly incoherent. Even non-conservatives with significant public policy and real world experiences, such as Colin Powell and Charles Fried, find Obama alluring but can't explain themselves in an intelligent way.
There is a cult-like atmosphere around Barack Obama, which his campaign has carefully and successfully fabricated, which concerns me. The messiah complex. Fainting audience members at rallies. Special Obama flags and an Obama presidential seal. A graphic with the portrayal of the globe and Obama's name on it, which adorns everything from Obama's plane to his street literature. Young school children singing songs praising Obama. Teenagers wearing camouflage outfits and marching in military order chanting Obama's name and the professions he is going to open to them. An Obama world tour, culminating in a speech in Berlin where Obama proclaims we are all citizens of the world. I dare say, this is ominous stuff.
Even the media are drawn to the allure that is Obama. Yes, the media are liberal. Even so, it is obvious that this election is different. The media are open and brazen in their attempts to influence the outcome of this election. I've never seen anything like it. Virtually all evidence of Obama's past influences and radicalism — from Jeremiah Wright to William Ayers — have been raised by non-traditional news sources. The media's role has been to ignore it as long as possible, then mention it if they must, and finally dismiss it and those who raise it in the first place. It's as if the media use the Obama campaign's talking points — its preposterous assertions that Obama didn't hear Wright from the pulpit railing about black liberation, whites, Jews, etc., that Obama had no idea Ayers was a domestic terrorist despite their close political, social, and working relationship, etc. — to protect Obama from legitimate and routine scrutiny. And because journalists have also become commentators, it is hard to miss their almost uniform admiration for Obama and excitement about an Obama presidency. So in the tank are the media for Obama that for months we've read news stories and opinion pieces insisting that if Obama is not elected president it will be due to white racism. And, of course, while experience is crucial in assessing Sarah Palin's qualifications for vice president, no such standard is applied to Obama's qualifications for president. (No longer is it acceptable to minimize the work of a community organizer.) Charles Gibson and Katie Couric sought to humiliate Palin. They would never and have never tried such an approach with Obama.
But beyond the elites and the media, my greatest concern is whether this election will show a majority of the voters susceptible to the appeal of a charismatic demagogue. This may seem a harsh term to some, and no doubt will to Obama supporters, but it is a perfectly appropriate characterization. Obama's entire campaign is built on class warfare and human envy. The "change" he peddles is not new. We've seen it before. It is change that diminishes individual liberty for the soft authoritarianism of socialism. It is a populist appeal that disguises government mandated wealth redistribution as tax cuts for the middle class, falsely blames capitalism for the social policies and government corruption (Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac) that led to the current turmoil in our financial markets, fuels contempt for commerce and trade by stigmatizing those who run successful small and large businesses, and exploits human imperfection as a justification for a massive expansion of centralized government. Obama's appeal to the middle class is an appeal to the "the proletariat," as an infamous philosopher once described it, about which a mythology has been created. Rather than pursue the American Dream, he insists that the American Dream has arbitrary limits, limits Obama would set for the rest of us — today it's $250,000 for businesses and even less for individuals. If the individual dares to succeed beyond the limits set by Obama, he is punished for he's now officially "rich." The value of his physical and intellectual labor must be confiscated in greater amounts for the good of the proletariat (the middle class). And so it is that the middle class, the birth-child of capitalism, is both celebrated and enslaved — for its own good and the greater good. The "hope" Obama represents, therefore, is not hope at all. It is the misery of his utopianism imposed on the individual.
Unlike past Democrat presidential candidates, Obama is a hardened ideologue. He's not interested in playing around the edges. He seeks "fundamental change," i.e., to remake society. And if the Democrats control Congress with super-majorities led by Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid, he will get much of what he demands.
The question is whether enough Americans understand what's at stake in this election and, if they do, whether they care. Is the allure of a charismatic demagogue so strong that the usually sober American people are willing to risk an Obama presidency? After all, it ensnared Adelman, Kmiec, Powell, Fried, and numerous others. And while America will certainly survive, it will do so, in many respects, as a different place.
Mark Levin
10/25 09:29 PM
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I've been thinking this for a while so I might as well air it here. I honestly never thought we'd see such a thing in our country - not yet anyway - but I sense what's occurring in this election is a recklessness and abandonment of rationality that has preceded the voluntary surrender of liberty and security in other places. I can't help but observe that even some conservatives are caught in the moment as their attempts at explaining their support for Barack Obama are unpersuasive and even illogical. And the pull appears to be rather strong. Ken Adelman, Doug Kmiec, and others, reach for the usual platitudes in explaining themselves but are utterly incoherent. Even non-conservatives with significant public policy and real world experiences, such as Colin Powell and Charles Fried, find Obama alluring but can't explain themselves in an intelligent way.
There is a cult-like atmosphere around Barack Obama, which his campaign has carefully and successfully fabricated, which concerns me. The messiah complex. Fainting audience members at rallies. Special Obama flags and an Obama presidential seal. A graphic with the portrayal of the globe and Obama's name on it, which adorns everything from Obama's plane to his street literature. Young school children singing songs praising Obama. Teenagers wearing camouflage outfits and marching in military order chanting Obama's name and the professions he is going to open to them. An Obama world tour, culminating in a speech in Berlin where Obama proclaims we are all citizens of the world. I dare say, this is ominous stuff.
Even the media are drawn to the allure that is Obama. Yes, the media are liberal. Even so, it is obvious that this election is different. The media are open and brazen in their attempts to influence the outcome of this election. I've never seen anything like it. Virtually all evidence of Obama's past influences and radicalism — from Jeremiah Wright to William Ayers — have been raised by non-traditional news sources. The media's role has been to ignore it as long as possible, then mention it if they must, and finally dismiss it and those who raise it in the first place. It's as if the media use the Obama campaign's talking points — its preposterous assertions that Obama didn't hear Wright from the pulpit railing about black liberation, whites, Jews, etc., that Obama had no idea Ayers was a domestic terrorist despite their close political, social, and working relationship, etc. — to protect Obama from legitimate and routine scrutiny. And because journalists have also become commentators, it is hard to miss their almost uniform admiration for Obama and excitement about an Obama presidency. So in the tank are the media for Obama that for months we've read news stories and opinion pieces insisting that if Obama is not elected president it will be due to white racism. And, of course, while experience is crucial in assessing Sarah Palin's qualifications for vice president, no such standard is applied to Obama's qualifications for president. (No longer is it acceptable to minimize the work of a community organizer.) Charles Gibson and Katie Couric sought to humiliate Palin. They would never and have never tried such an approach with Obama.
But beyond the elites and the media, my greatest concern is whether this election will show a majority of the voters susceptible to the appeal of a charismatic demagogue. This may seem a harsh term to some, and no doubt will to Obama supporters, but it is a perfectly appropriate characterization. Obama's entire campaign is built on class warfare and human envy. The "change" he peddles is not new. We've seen it before. It is change that diminishes individual liberty for the soft authoritarianism of socialism. It is a populist appeal that disguises government mandated wealth redistribution as tax cuts for the middle class, falsely blames capitalism for the social policies and government corruption (Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac) that led to the current turmoil in our financial markets, fuels contempt for commerce and trade by stigmatizing those who run successful small and large businesses, and exploits human imperfection as a justification for a massive expansion of centralized government. Obama's appeal to the middle class is an appeal to the "the proletariat," as an infamous philosopher once described it, about which a mythology has been created. Rather than pursue the American Dream, he insists that the American Dream has arbitrary limits, limits Obama would set for the rest of us — today it's $250,000 for businesses and even less for individuals. If the individual dares to succeed beyond the limits set by Obama, he is punished for he's now officially "rich." The value of his physical and intellectual labor must be confiscated in greater amounts for the good of the proletariat (the middle class). And so it is that the middle class, the birth-child of capitalism, is both celebrated and enslaved — for its own good and the greater good. The "hope" Obama represents, therefore, is not hope at all. It is the misery of his utopianism imposed on the individual.
Unlike past Democrat presidential candidates, Obama is a hardened ideologue. He's not interested in playing around the edges. He seeks "fundamental change," i.e., to remake society. And if the Democrats control Congress with super-majorities led by Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid, he will get much of what he demands.
The question is whether enough Americans understand what's at stake in this election and, if they do, whether they care. Is the allure of a charismatic demagogue so strong that the usually sober American people are willing to risk an Obama presidency? After all, it ensnared Adelman, Kmiec, Powell, Fried, and numerous others. And while America will certainly survive, it will do so, in many respects, as a different place.
Mark Levin
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#388. rwbennett: "I believe it was well over 70% of the jews in Germany who voted for Hitler when he was first elected there also."
With the greatest respect, believing something does not make it so. People believe in a deity, but there is no proof - and proof it what is needed when such a statement as yours is made. If indeed you can find something to substantiate this and other opinions, well and good. But until you do, they will always be viewed with suspicion - and that's putting it kindly.
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394, zcat.
"There is a cult-like atmosphere around Barack Obama, which his campaign has carefully and successfully fabricated, which concerns me. The messiah complex."
What you have described is what people who do not like Obama want to see. Those of us who think Obama is the best choice do not feel what you are describing. My sisters and brothers and I, our spouses, and our grown children, are past the age of "American Idol" worship. We were never the type for that sort of thing anyway. None of us are Democrats; we are all voting for Obama.
We want out of the war and don't want to provoke new ones. We despise creationism and don't want rubbish of that sort foisted upon us. We want the privilege of privacy returned to us. We would like to restore friendly relations with our allies. We do not approve of the excessive power that the president has acquired.
Probably all of what I have said will be objectionable to you. You prefer to think of us as whackos instead of intellectuals. If that makes you feel better, please do so.
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394 zcatracho12
It's v late - and I'm still up - just about.
I don't intend to go thru your long posting bit by bit
The main thing that strikes me, however, is that you seem unable to concede that people who disagree with you might be rational. Conservatives who support Obama are 'unpersuasive and even illogical' ...'utterly incoherent' '...'can't explain themselves in an intelligent way.' By which you mean - they don't persuade you.
And of course the various people you refer to cannot have come to a rational conclusion. They must have been 'ensnared'.
And the rest of his supporters - which if the polls are right, is most voters - well they've just been suckered by that mean old MSM and hypnotised by the 'demagogue'.
'Obama's entire campaign is built on class warfare and human envy'
Oooooookay.
Basically, nothing I say will change your opinion. And I rather doubt you'll change the mind of anyone here.
Just, as I say, try to comprehend that those who don't agree with you may have a brain. Indeed, a brain as good as, if not better than, yours.
Then again - what would I know. I've drunk the Kool-Aid and am now a devoted slave to The Great One.
[That's irony, in case you missed it.]
One other small point - in your long posting, you don't seem to mention the other candidate. Geezer named McCain, as I recall.
Then again, there have always been a large number of conservative Republicans [Coulter and Limbaugh spring to mind] who think his problem is - he's just too darned left wing.
Perhaps you're one?
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388, rwbennett.
"I believe it was well over 70% of the jews in Germany who voted for Hitler when he was first elected there also."
Then, by extension, any leader who is popular could be another Hiter. That would include any of our presidents who were elected by a wide margin. Ronald Reagan comes to mind.
Do you realize how ridiculous that is?
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Re #394
"Colin Powell and Charles Fried, find Obama alluring but can't explain themselves in an intelligent way."
did you not see the highly detailed, 7 minutes long uninterrupted, highly detailed and spelled out endorsment by Colin Powell for Obama?
I have never, and i trully mean ever, seen anyone explain themselfs in a more coherent, logical and coherent way.
He step by step said why he is endorsing Obama and also why he is against the campaign by the Republican party naming sources and everything.
Seriously what more do you want him to say?
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#394. zcatracho12: "A graphic with the portrayal of the globe and Obama's name on it, which adorns everything from Obama's plane to his street literature."
I haven't had time to locate all the other supposed examples of Mr Obama's braggadocio, but with regard to the plane, these photographs show that you are wrong. There is no globe, merely the familiar roundel which has been used throughout the campaign. As with 'rwbennett' you need to provide proof of such statements before making them.
Because the writer identifies himself as Mark Levin and his views on Mr Obama, together with those about the Democratic Party, are typical of the far right, I wonder if he is the same individual whose words of wisdom can be heard on ABC Radio and who is a frequent guest on Sean Hannity's program? If so, his opinions must be taken with more than a grain of salt.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8__aXxXPVc&feature=related
8 days for Americas and the world. I hope our world can be united again and begin to heal after the election even if John McCain wins. Although, I doubt it would happen then.
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# 351
The low expose themselves by their deeds and postings.
If "Magic" speaks for "Jews and Israelis" then, indeed, what he represents is to be harshly condemned.
But he does not. What he represents is very condemnable.
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I have received an item from a local Florida paper allegedly originated by an organization of "Black Republicans".
As you can imagine, it was a very shameful thing.
Those who indulge in these practices expose themselves, their affiliations, and-most unfortunately- their country.
#402, I can only link the word "Republican" with these election practices and the shame of the past eight years.
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#351
Magic you have sunk to a new low.
What you are trying to state is marbles is an anti-semite, which is borderline slanderous. It seems to me she is only anti you, which after p