Flipping the ticket
STRONGSVILLE, OHIO: Exclusive: the ticket has already flipped. There was some loose talk recently about Palin McCain replacing McCain Palin but here in Strongsville, Ohio the (very large and very enthusiastic) crowds out to see the two of them were only really interested in one of them. They chant her name in the hall but more importantly outside - when asked what it is about the Republican case that gets them going this year - almost everyone mentions her.
She is, it seems to me, doing the party great good and great harm at the same time. The Republicans could not hope to win without the backing of the people I watched lining up in British style weather behind the Target car park. And yet the Palin world-view - essentially ignorant, unable to name a single paper read - is not the view that a nation facing an economic catastrophe, complex and international and baffling to most minds, is likely to choose.
But having lost - if that is what happens - what then? Does Palin become the future? This is what David Brooks is getting at in a warning that will come to haunt the Republicans, who have after all been the party of ideas for most of the last 30 years. To hear Palin screeching on about Reagan must be painful to many Republicans who knew him. Reagan knew what papers he read.
But will they lose? Not necessarily and Dan's Balz's piece sets out why not - Sarah Palin again. McCain is currently adrift in Ohio (where Balz and I were today) by about four percentage points. FOUR! Same in some other of the key states. This is not locked up.
As for the debates - everyone hates them. Inside the Beltway and out.
Hello, I'm 
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Welcome back team!
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Why is it that it only seems to be in America where all these Christian neo-cons have such a big influence on voting?
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Justin, I'm hoping that you can pass on the following
request to the Powers That Be that the next time
a public debate is held, that the lights be brought
down low so that the ghost of Ronnie Reagan can
put in a personal appearance, and tell everybody
how ridiculous they are.
I feel so sorry for Sarah Palin, that I'm almost ready
to send her a gift subscription for the NY Times.
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We hear endlessly about something the Republicans have just done, or some new move by the democrats, but there is something missing from the whole discussion. Many Americans believe both parties are as bad as each other.
So where is the discussion about how neither party really represents the interests of the average American?
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#2, haines..., I can handle that one.
Back in the 90's, Michael Moore did this TV show
called "TV Nation" in which he interviewed ordinary
Americans in the hinterlands while they were at
home watching TV.
One time, he knocked on the door of an apartment,
and an elderly lady answered the door. While
they were interviewing her, a program came on
about some comets that were going to collide with
Jupiter. Michael asked her if she was afraid that
something similar might happen to Earth.
Her reply was, "Oh, no! That only happens to planets
in space."
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If McCain does manage to win he will be the puppet of the Palin-Republicans - because he will owe his win to the mandate of these people. He will find it impossible to govern.
The more we see of her, the more Palin comes across as no more than a rabble rouser. In Europe we have seen these people many times before down the centuries and they have always been dangerous. What is more, they bring out the very worst in the people that they appeal to.
Wise conservative heads such as David Brooks - and he is not alone - see this and are belatedly trying to rein it in. It may be too late and I cannot see Palin returning quietly to Alaska.
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IT is your duty being in Ohio to take the most important issue in the free world today. Remember in 2004 that the Ohio state election officials ( all Republican loyalists) cut back the supply of voting machines for inner-city precincts as much as 40 percent (i.e., three machines for precincts which had five in 2000), leading to long lines that discouraged many people from voting. This would have a disproportionate impact on low-income and minority workers, whose work schedules tend to be more strictly enforced. A fundamental point that I do not understand why people forget or dismiss is when an electronic voting machine in Franklin County, Ohio (Columbus) added 3,893 votes for Bush. (It recorded 4,258 votes for Bush from 638 voters). THIS WAS PROVED AND BROUGHT TO A COURT OF LAW. Also officials of Warren County, Ohio, a heavily Republican area north of Cincinnati, decided to exclude observers and reporters from the vote counting area. They sought to justify this flagrantly illegal action by citing warnings from the FBI and the Department of Homeland Security on alleged threats of terrorism..... I know if this happened in Australia it would be on ABC News and in all the newspapers... what is happening over there...is FOX rlly that powerful?
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and why does it take 10 minutes to moderate a 2 line post?
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Justin, they said she is a quick study. True enough she has been a quick study on how to smear mud on the campaign trail. Someone needs to remind her she is running for the US VP office and not head of the PTA at a local high school. Her slang is terrible and very unpresidential. Can you imagine Sarah Palin addressing the UN security council? I'm not sure we have a crush course for that.
This is what I think will happen. They will lose big and after Nov. 4th McCain will delete Sarah Palin's number and swear he had never met her before. He will have come back to his senses. McCain the politician.Same way he stated in Feb and March that he will not support personal attacks in his campaign. To show his seriousness he fired one of his people when they ran Jeremiah Wright ad in NC. What has changed after 8 months? How can we trust him with the country?
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I've being calling it the Pallin-McCain ticket for a while as McCain just doesn't seem to motivate or enthuse anyone.
It is an interesting question to ask that if McCain is becomming sidelined during the campaign then how will he perform in the white house?
If he is not able to lead his own campaign then can he lead the country?
You're all doing very well !!
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Sometimes on this blog people indulge in flights of fancy or humorous jabs. I notice that the jokesters are always from the Obama side. McCain people do not joke.
You might say that this giddiness is inspired by Palin, and it is true that there is no end of fun you can have with her. But the joking started before she was on the scene.
Could it be that the Republicans were never really pleased to have McCain as their candidate and their hearts are not in the campaign, and that the opposite is true of the Democrats and Obama?
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The real question is whether Palin is bringing in more votes rather than solidify those that would vote GOP anyway? I very much doubt it.
As for her future, I can see the majority of the female GOP members in the house and senate, who are in general, educated and thoughtful, actually cringing every time Palin opens her mouth. I envisage a lot of very sharp elbows coming out after the election if the Democrats win and the GOP tries to persist in advancing her over the more senior female members.
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"It would appear that Iran dislikes the idea of the US forging a long term strategic relationship with Iraq so much that it is prepared to see the perpetuation of the existing 'occupation' arrangements."
There is something very important missing from this discussion. The views of the Iraqi people. Do they want a continued US presence on their soil? According to the BBC's own poll, the answer is a resounding no. The BBC poll found that 72% of Iraqis oppose the presence of coalition troops and 42% even support attacks on those troops. The BBC ignored these results and instead chose to go with a story on whether Iraqis felt the "surge" was succeeding or not. It's almost unbelievable that the Western media chooses to ignore the opinions of the Iraqi people blatantly.
We have a situation where a country is under an unwanted military occupation and yet all the discussion is about whether or not the occupiers can pull off a continuation of the occupation. If the occupation of Iraq had been a Russian military adventure, the tone of this article would have been very different. There would be outrage over Russian military tactics (e.g. air-strikes in civilian areas) and BBC reporters would be demanding to know what right the Russians have to be in Iraq etc.
Take a look at this report on the US siege of Fallujah.
"I had already witnessed the consequences of the United States pitiless bombardment of the citizens of Fallujah"
"Fallujah was once a city of half a million people. Now it is torn down, crushed and violated."
"Of the hundreds of thousands of people who once lived here, but a handful remain, eking out a perilous existence in the fetid basements of crumbling housing blocs.What they have endured is beyond belief."
"It is thought as many as 40,000 people may have still been in the city at the height of the inferno. How many of them were incinerated, crushed by falling masonry or shredded by shrapnel nobody yet knows."
"Washington excused itself the trouble of worrying about such details by equating those who stayed on with terrorists."
"But it was no choice at all. Many were too old, too sick or too weak to move. Some never saw the leaflets telling them to leave and others did not want to go. Fallujah was their only home."
"Why should they go? By what right was the US army forcing them from their homes? So the US could destroy what it itself dismissed as a handful of terrorists?"
Seems rather extraordinary of the BBC to be so critical of the US doesn't it? Well, actually the report was on the Russian siege of Grozny. I just changes the place names.
Here's the original report.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/668080.stm
Can you imagine a the BBC witting a report that was that fist-shakingly angry about US operations in Iraq? I think not.
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Because the electronic voting machines of Ohio and New Jersey are particularly subject to tampering, it might be wise for voters in those states to take advantage of absentee ballots.
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3, guns.
"I feel so sorry for Sarah Palin, that I'm almost ready to send her a gift subscription for the NY Times."
That's very thoughtful of you, but I'm not sure she will get all the big words.
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7. NETCRUSHER
Most people think that this could only happen in Africa.
Oh well, I suppose it's just some well meaning Republicans correcting the voters lack of political education.
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It occurs to me that the only person who can save Reagan's legacy from distortion is Nancy Reagan.
We were commenting on this blog yesterday that the Reagans took a pretty dim view of McCain throughout their term in office and Nancy needs to reclaim her husband's reputation.
Dyed-in-the-wool Republican that he was, his great achievement was to heal wounds (post Nixon) and, with his optimistic message, to achieve a cross-party consensus at a time when America needed it.
Reagan never needed to screech to get a vote but everybody, even his opponents, knew that he had solid values. And values seem to be just what is missing in the current Republican campaign. Nancy where are you ?
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# 7 Netcrusher
I believe the great Chicago Democrat, Richard Daley senior was the originator of the election fraud cliche; "Vote early and vote often."
Dems, Repubs, Labor, Conservatives, they are all as crooked as snakes.
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David Brooks does not say anything which has not been expressed on this forum. As for the Republicans being "the party of ideas", which ones would those be during the last three decades? Trickle-down economics was not one of them, neither the attempt to destroy the Great Society programmes launched under LBJ.
My understanding of Ronald Reagan as president was that he did not read the newspapers, but rather had a digest of them laid out for him. As Governor, long before on-line publications, I have no doubt that he read the San Francisco Chronicle and Los Angeles Times. He was not considered a man of great intellect; if I recall correctly, The New York Times described him as having ''intellectual slightness.''
When Mrs Palin returns to Juneau, she will be inundated with offers from the media. Like Dan Quayle, her national political life will be over and she will take on the mantle of Michael Reagan, a conservative for hire who trades on his father's name. The pity is that we don't hear more from Ron Reagan, the late president's natural son. His views of the election would be of interest, especially in light of those he has expressed about the present incumbent of The White House.
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Is Palin the future?
Maybe, but she would have to convince the powers in the GOP that she was viable.
If the rank and file had wanted their candiadte to be a folksy talking state governor with solid anti-abortion views derived from christian beliefs and who was a life long hunter and supporter of the right to bear arms then in the primaries they could have voted for Mike Huckabee but somehow the party (and the media) wanted McCain.
I'm not sure that Palin's appeal is broad enough to move beyond a core support who'll be Republican no matter what. To be the winning candidate in the presidential election needs a wide coalition. She has a lot of work to do over the next four years to become a candidate capable of filling the pews of a broad church.
The election in four years time (assuming Obama wins as polls suggest) would be against an incumbant going for a second term and in those cases the election will depend very much on the record of the incumbent not the soundbites of the challenger.
However I expect her to be about in national politics for a while. Not so much Maggie Thatcher more a US version of Tory "maverick" Teresa Gorman.
You're all doing very well !!
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13, Steven.
It wouldn't come as a big surprise that the Iraqis didn't fall in love with their invaders. No matter what appears to the contrary in the US media, I will be guided common sense and an understanding of human nature.
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Are we fed up with the word "maverick" - you bet'cha!
I keep thinking James Garner is is the candidate - mind you perhaps Palins slogan could be ?Support Your Local Gunfighter
You're all doing very well !!
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19, David.
Reagan was full of humor and wit. The New York Times might not have liked him because he was a Republican. I never considered him to be of "slight intelligence." But, then, I am an independent.
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Message for Badboy Sam.
Having just watched Michelle being gracious and beautiful on Larry King, I have decided that you can come down from the naughty stair.
She will be a wonderful First Lady.
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#10,
i agree, it does seem nowadays that the media are starting to think that every McCain attack on Obama with a right-wing nature is a results of him being egged on by Palin. I saw an interview with McCain on TV the other day and when asked if he though Palin is future PRESIDENT material, he replied:"Oh absolutely! Absolutely,".... really??
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It is obvious McCain, for his own gains has jump-started Sarah Palin's political career. I don't think though she will ever run for the presidency. The uphoria will soon fade off as the dream shifts to a nightmare (with a loss in Nov ). She cannot pass the 'breath test' leave alone the grinding that goes on during the norminations. I'm not sure she has the skin for such national scrutiny. Right now she can only sit down with Fox News - the republican's 'vacuole'. If being asked to name one newspaper she reads is a 'gotcha' question then she has a long way to go.
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6. eightypercent wrote:
" Palin comes across as no more than a rabble rouser. In Europe we have seen these people many times before down the centuries and they have always been dangerous. What is more, they bring out the very worst in the people that they appeal to."
It's funny, because that is exactly how I have seen Obama since he started his run. His rather non-committal mantra of "Change" without nailing down precisely what change. His "we are the people we have been waiting for" spiel. Worse still, his followers who seem to be mesmerized by every word that drips from his lips, no matter how it contradicts his earlier statements, or seems to clash with his past actions and the company he keeps.
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"Why is it that it only seems to be in America where all these Christian neo-cons have such a big influence on voting?"
Because its only in America that electoral campaigns use up finances which are equal to a small country's GDP. That money has to come from somewhere and the neo-cons and their lobby groups are absolutely loaded with it, just like the Vatican.
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"I feel so sorry for Sarah Palin, that I'm almost ready to send her a gift subscription for the NY Times."
I'm sure her daughter's baby will love it! A newspaper makes nice crumpling noises.
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27, Schwerpunkt.
I think you may be confusing his gift for speaking with what he stands for. It is only early in the campaign when a candidate indicates his intentions. After that they go after the vote. Even then, little snippits of truth slip out.
Also there are parts of their plans that they do not discuss because it might rile lobbyists and special interest groups who will create a lot of negative publicity. This is particularly true in Obama's case.
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# Schwerpunkt
(Interesting moniker)
The difference lies in the message. Obama talks of unity, optimism and hope.
Palin just screeches.
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My wife is American and I read a lot of what her (admittedly 'Christian Fundamentalist' Texans) family write on the Family website and Palin has certainly galvanised middle America. Even if it is a 'style over content' thing.
So don't be surprised to see a late reversal in the Polls and an 11th hour and 59th minute swing to the Palin/McCain ticket.
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#13 SteveJMUK
The implication of your made-up story and the comment above is that you know of some activity in Iraq that the BBC has not reported.
What was it ?
My impression of BBC reporting in Iraq is that it is heavily biased toward the anti-War view.
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Unfortunately Sarah Palin is an albatros round the neck of John McCain's neck. Rather than making his path easier to the White House, she is by her actions handing the Presidency on a platter to Obama. Obama is head and shoulders above McCain and is extending his lead as the election draws closer. Thanks to Sarah Palin's gaffs change is on the horizon with the Democrat candidate favoured to take the White House.
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People have registered to vote in record numbers as have many younger people and people who have not voted in a long time. That is what is needed to send Palin back to Alaska and defeat McCain. Meanwhile, the Alaskan Supreme Court is ruling whether Troopergate probe findings are to be released by Friday
Troopergate update
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A european poll was done recently and showed Obama having over 90% of the popular vote- let's hope the American public are just as wise!
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The same people who voted in the idiot who has been ruining the country for the last 8 years are the ones who find sp applealing. I hope a little more intelligence is used this time. Look what a folksy person can do(wink,wink).
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11:
"Sometimes on this blog people indulge in flights of fancy or humorous jabs. I notice that the jokesters are always from the Obama side. McCain people do not joke."
I plead guilty, m'Lud. In mitigation, I have asked m'learned friends to suggest that sometimes things look so bad, there's no alternative. And we have to make up for the serious lack of humour from the Right, who, historically neverjoke, just are one.
Mind you, Reagan's scriptwriters did come up with one or two, I think, didn't they, but that's pretty rare.
Palin for President? Blimey, Justin, that's a good one. Best I've heard for weeks. Er, you arejoking, aren't you?
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This is really worrying stuff from the McCain/Palin campaign. It seems that they are now creating a mob mentality.
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/10/08/cameron-rallies-terrorist/#comments
Will the Feds investigate, as they should, under the Patriot Act, this incitement to violence? I doubt it.
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To be fair, it could be that Obama and Biden just
aren't very funny.
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gunsandreligion,
"I feel so sorry for Sarah Palin, that I'm almost ready
to send her a gift subscription for the NY Times."
A very suitable choice. I understand the weekend editions are like her, quite thick.
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Sarah Palin is undoubtedly the most appalling, vacuous, air-headed, neo-fascist, arrogant so and so to appear on the public stage for many years. If she ever became President she would undoubtedly bring the world to its knees within a fortnight.
BUT, if this is what America wants, why should they not have it...that (unfortunately) is what democracy is all about !
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I had a very good friend (now sadly deceased) who was American. A highly educated and erudite attorney, who was a university academic here in the UK, he used to explain why it was Americans seem to revel in choosing complete schmucks like GW, Sarah Palin or Senator J. Danforth Quail for high office.
In his view, it was a reflection of the fact that US society is so atomised and the culture of the individual so strong that many Americans believe (wrongly) that the federal government doesn't really matter all that much. For these people, the choice of President & VP is not taken too seriously and there may even be a perverse pride in seeing jokers like GW, Dan Quail or Sarah Palin end up at the top, committing all sorts of gaffes and being (often unintentionally) rude to foreigners and generally just a bit embarrassing. (Though to be fair to all of the above, none of them could top the cigar and stained dress antics of Bill Clinton, who was otherwise an excellent President. And what about the time George Bush Sr. vomited into the lap of the Japanese Prime Minister - on TV!)
Presidential elections can therefore be a bit like a carnival with elements of a freak show thrown in - rather like the way we behave in respect of the Royal Family, but with elections every five years. Hence the Palin phenomenon.
Profspof
PS I may have mis-spelt Dan Quail's name but on the grounds that he wouldn't be able to notice I don't suppose it matters.
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Justin, I'm not suprised that Dan's Balz's blog favours a Republican win- they are all clearly dissollutional on there. The first comment below I saw on there was some guy who thinks that because "Obama Barrack Hussein sounds like Osama Saddam Hussein [doesn't really do it for me], that Obama is clearly a terrorist and not to be trusted". Not someone I would call an unbiased, swing voter.
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#21 allmymarbles
In the 2008 opinion poll in Iraq which I believe was being quoted above "...49 percent now say it was right for the US-led coalition to have invaded..."
That 49% is actually the highest approval rating for the invasion since polls have been taken in Iraq.
I cannot link to the poll because it's a PDF. You can find it through Google, it was commissioned by ABC/BBC/ARD/NHK and released on March 17th 2008.
The poll also says only 26% of Iraqis "support having US and coalition troops in their country" but only 38% "say the United States should leave now".
Still from the poll, in terms of the role of US troops in Iraq, 80% of Iraqis want US troops to "conduct security operations against Al Qaeda or foreign jihadis in Iraq".
High percentages also want US troops involved in training the Iraqi army and construction projects, etc.
A large majority even want US troops "assisting in security vis a vis Iran and Turkey".
Strange and wonderful things, opinion polls. Post #13 didn't really convey the full flavour, did it ?
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2, hainesoides wrote:
"Why is it that it only seems to be in America where all these Christian neo-cons have such a big influence on voting?"
I've spent a lot of time the last few years discussing this with a friend who spent some time seconded to the USAAF in Ohio, where his younger son was born. All we have come up with is that it is a simple (simplistic) message that appeals and one that avoids the awkward bits in the New Testament that demand a little thought. Or compassion.
Like the Sermon on the Mount, which was pretty prominent when I was a child being brought up as a Methodist in Northern England, but never figures in what the 'Christian Right' has to say.
There's more to it than that, of course, but I can't write a 10,000 word thesis here . . .
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Probably the best thing that could happen to the
Republican party at this point would be to be decisively
defeated at the polls. They would have to examine
why they lost.
But then, we would be stuck with the Democrats.
You Europeans are looking at Obama and saying,
"Wow, how smart he is!" The problem is that you
don't know about Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid.
Stupidity does not even begin to describe their
world-views. In fact, they make the average
congressman look intelligent.
If you understood this, you might even vote for
McCain and Palin. Sad, but true.
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#36 hainesoides
"A european poll was done recently and showed Obama having over 90% of the popular vote- let's hope the American public are just as wise!"
What a bizarre, pointless and incorrect assumption. This is America.
Mccain just needs to shout "commie!" on voting day and McPalin will be ushered into the White House.
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Hmmm... Devil? Or deep blue sea?
No-brainer. Devil. Sea's the wrong colour.
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"Hmmm... Devil? Or deep blue sea?
"No-brainer. Devil. Sea's the wrong colour."
How exciting that the fate of the whole world hangs on such an enlightened floating electorate.
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45. chillo
..... and which percentage is it exactly that is more than happy to breakfast on the continuing US dollars inflow?
Readers may recall an audit of finances reported a little while back revealing a serious loss of double digit billions of dollars from the early days of the post invasion administration - good tax payers money that is now languishing in the offshore accounts of, dare I say, a number of proxy government officials.
I am sure everyone knows other details - incl the US contractors side of the house, dollars-wise.
My experience on the ground, for what it is worth, is that the ordinary Iraqi people viewed US forces initially with open arms (about x3 weeks) based on the promises of tangible life betterment and even chance of getting sight of some simple domestic commodities that most on here don't give a second thought about..... pots and pans; a TV; clothes and basics things for their kids..... a roof even...........
Be clear. Whilst capital projects and infrastructure reconstruction benefits can be quoted and flagged, your average Iraqi remains light years away from i) even understanding the meaning of democracy and its applied benefits and ii) having seen anything put in their pockets to realise a dream and a better life.
Business is strictly *us and them*; when the time is right, the rich will be out of there in getaway cars; your Halliburtons of this world doing v nicely thanks. I hav edealt with one Ministry and know the form.
Regrettably, that house of cards remains oh so fragile.
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Justin, the bookies are usually a good barometer on these matters, but this time they seem to be believing the hype.
McCain to win is currently widely available at 4/1! Crazy odds in any two horse race, especially this one. A £100 bet on McCain will get you £400 profit, while Obama nets you a measly £36. This is madness, surely?
If my bank hasn't put a closed sign I may have to shift my short-term investments!
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Apologies for my cynicism.
There is a good chance for the Democrats to win the election they were owed in 2000 and 2004, and I sincerely hope for Americans and the world that they do. But seeing the polls at roughly 50-50 even now is still deeply saddening.
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There is official evidence of Justin Webb's point that this has turned into a Palin/McCain ticket. I have just gone to the McCain website (because I wanted to investigate the mortgage-foreclosure bomblet that he hurled into the debate on Tuesday).
The site immediately goes into a video of Palin in all her twinkling glory urging people to sign up to the ticket. The backshots make it look as though the nice lady has brought her grampie along with her for the ride.
So I still haven't found out what he is talking about with mortgage foreclosures !
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# 47
I agree that Pelosi and Reid come across as having passed their sell-by date. What chance for HRC as Senate Leader ?
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Sarah Palin reminds me of a female version of George W Bush. I certainly hope she is never given the chance to be POTUS because that would be a return to the past (once Obama's second term has ended).
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Another mystery about the McCain campaign :
The BBC's Gavin Hewitt has opened a parallel blog on the campaign trail and tells us that after the debate in Nashville, senior McCain advisers acknowledged that they had to get their man off the subject of the economy.
In that case, why on earth did they coach him into proposing the additional $300 billion mortgage foreclosure measure? A measure which was never mentioned during the bailout debate, is complicated and needs both explaining and debating .... and, in other words, ties McCain down to talking about the economy for the next three weeks.
With friends like these in his own camp, McCain certainly doesn't need enemies.
Are these people trying to undermine their own candidate because playing on his main weakness sure seems to be a good way of going about it.
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I still insist that Palin can pull it through for McCain. White folks will find it difficult to vote for an African-American and will eventually go for the white old-and-thus-experienced American war-hero and his crispy white girl-running-mate.
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@gunsandreligion (47), it seems you don't get it.
Lets say the truth. If US elect one more Republican neocon in White House, world public will not tolerate that, so US image will go down at the bottom, with that kind of the US bad image in the world, you are able to say good buy to any economic recovery even if you have genius in White House, not to mention old, senil men who earned a lot of the money, and his current senator position on his years in enemy prison and with his father connection.
Also I don't know why Americans thinks that McCain is hero? Usually heros don't spend years in enemies prisons, not to mention that McCain capitalise all that very well. I just down know what you guys see in those Republicans? Remember, you were stupid last time with W, so don't demonstrate to us that you still stupid. Imagine this, Obama, son of the white US women, and black African men in one sociaty like US, not rich, not well connected, rised to the top with own mind and hands, have Harward diplome in his packet, young, his wife is also very well educated, and on another side failed pilot from Vietnam, son of the US admiral, capitalised very well his years in enemy prison in past 26 years, married to owner of the Budwaiser company, with fathers (US admiral) connections in Washington became senator in Washington, where he has been 26 years, voted 95% of the time same like Bush JR, typical Washington type of the politican from past, and on all that current catastrophic status of the US economy, which is so bad that with neocon financial tricks, will move all world economy in recesion.
So if that young men and that old senil men fight for presidency in Europe, young men will win with more than 85% of the advantage in every option. If not, it will be miracle in negative way. Anywhere in Europe fight between Hillary and Barack will decide who will be president. So America must turn page and demostrate to world that learned from past mistakes. If not, I am afraid they will have economy even worst than in Bush times.
So really I don't understand US people, BTW I am white (Scandinavian type), what 40% see in Republican party? I know mayority of the mayor US media (like for example CNN, Fox) "prepare" them in long campaigne , so they vote republican, but how stupid someone must be to vote Republican? I mean some of those guys in Europe will not be able to clean streets, how stupid they are. For example Palin, US media create from her starr, and she is nothing. She speaks about Joe Six Pack and other nonsense, and she is starr? Sure it is when republican media are behind her. I admit, she is good looking babe, but to have vice precident who will talk with Putin, Brown, Sarkozy or people which IQ is higher than Bush's, Palin's and McCain's together, it is nonsense.
So really I am interesting to see why 40% of the US people will vote Republican? I mean they deserve few percents, but 40%, that is insane.
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I think it would be very unwise of Obama and the Dems to confuse the reasons for cautious optimism with a complacency that this 'locked up'. Fortunately, everything about Obama's campaign suggests that he will not make that mistake or engage in premature triumphalism: he knows too much is at stake and that the perception of arrogance would be severely punished. It is, in fact, that perception that is presently causing McCain and Palin such difficulties.
Having said that, even the GOP leaning RCP polls show Obama ahead in all (not just some, but all) the red swing states. Furthermore, Obama is still escalating his advertising and his donation base has now expanded to beyond 4 million contributors. His September contributions could approach 100 million. What that means is that he can continue to expand his attack rather than have to retrench and focus. I don't think it will be long before they announce putting Louisiana into play.
Where does that leave McCain and Palin? The more they retreat into being populist demagogues, the more they shrink their base; but they can't really engage in the big arguments because the markets have moved against them, and they don't have the resources to compete on the scale or to the extent that is needed. Their best hope is to try and seize the agenda, but the problem is that they've sacrificed their moral authority and they are bereft of big ideas. So there are, I think, reasons for cautious optimism; not a 'lock-up' certainly, but with every day that passes, the sands of time are running out for them and the tone of desperation that permeates their acts and language becomes more evident, and more self-immolating.
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America is at a cross-road. Americans are being asked to vote for a smart African-American or for a not-so-smart white woman. There are some who would vote for the smart guy despite colour, others would go for the not-so-smart because of colour.
The fact that the polls show that no candidate has an overwhelming lead mean a lot of people are still struggling to come to grips with the choice before them. It is understandable as it is never easy selecting a leader that seems to be 'different'.
We are comfortable having leaders that look and seem to be like us. Many are tempted by instinct to vote by prejudice, while experiencing a chill that such a choice is not rational. These 'independents' hold America's future in their hands...
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Glad to see Justin finally caught on with what is obvious to anyone living in the heartland. Gov. Palin's popularity may be declining among the better educated, and in large cosmopolitan areas, but in the heartland she is a phenomenon that should not be underestimated.
Obama is fortunate that she entered the spotlight late in the game and that there are only 3 weeks left to election day, because otherwise she would win this race singlehandedly. In fact, if the McCain ticket loses in November, count on a more sophisticated and seasoned Sarah Palin running for POTUS four years from now. She is not going away.
Her success is based on her charisma, honesty, her roots, and the fact that her values, strengths and limitations reflect the attributes of the average American. For most voters, she is us running for President. The fact that she is not a polished politician and that she has a limited grasp of important national and international matters is not a major concern as many voters believe specifics should be handled by the Cabinet and Advisors, while the role of the President should be to provide a vision and make the final decision based on his or her judgment and values. On the latter she is the indisputable winner in 08. The only thing that is holding her back at the moment is John McCain.
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McCain COULD win. But will he? He has to defend virtually all the states that Bush won last time. And that's going to be mightily difficult. Even if he fires up the base by telling them that Obama is black/muslim/gay/vegetarian/terrorist/opera-loving then he still has to win over independents who are put off by that kind of garbage.
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Might I offer this as the flip side to Sarah Palin energizing HER base. I live in NC, one of the newly minted swing states. Last night, I attended a meeting of middle class mostly white women. It's called GASP!: Girlfriends Appalled about Sarah Palin.
GASP is a grassroots, word of mouth, invite a friend group that, in two weeks, has grown from 10 women deciding to take action rather than just complain to 120 women with a plan. Our efforts are concentrating on getting people to take advantage of early voting in NC, which begins on Oct 16.
While all of these women have been active in previous campaigns, we've never mobilized in such a way. And it is all due to a particular hockey mom who not only appalls us, but scares us. I suspect that there are other groups like GASP! forming all over the country.
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#18
Actually it was Al Capone. Google it.
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Oh dear.
This is the end of McCain.
Just send in the men with mops and buckets.
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Hi one and all.
Haven't looked in for a while but I say this to all you democrats if you can't win after this http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7660409.stm then you deserve to lose. I believe, possibly incorrectly, that by the end of his tenure Clinton had almost removed your National Debt now after 8 years of Bush and the REPUBLICANS it's so big it's off the clock.
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I am surprised that senator john Mcain and the American people have allowed this ridiculous soap opera to go on for far too long. in my opinion the race would have been a no-contest a long time ago if the mcain people had not listened to the media and their ‘experts’, and had focussed on the most important issue a lot of people have overlooked.. if the mcain people had focussed on character vis a viz Senator Obama, I bet he would have been exposed a long time ago for the fraud that he is.
Character goes to the heart of everything, be it the dire economic situation, terrorism, patriotism et al..The problem on wall street is as a result of the deficiency in character of the major players in wall street and Washington..Obama in my opinion is a sitting duck when it comes to issues on character. he has a busload of indiscretions that are already in the public domain. They can be used to good effect to put the benefit of doubt in the mind of the voters. i am not referring to incoherent personal attacks but a more articulate and sustained discourse on his bad judgement in the past that could cost the American people dearly if elected president.
One such indiscretion is his association with that radical pastor of his. This is a relationship that dates back many years. For his pastor to have uttered such nonsense after the attacks of September 11 it must follow that he harbours such resentment towards America. that statement must not be treated in isolation as a moment of passion or madness by the pastor, because it goes into the core of his mindset and belief. By my understanding, that statement is not a recent one. It was made a long time ago even before obama thought of running for president. This goes to the heart of Obama’s judgement, because I am at a loss as to why he did not denounce the pastor then ( if he did not share such a belief ) when it was not politically expedient to do so?? why denounce the pastor now when it is politically expedient to do so?? Obama cannot tell me that he was not 1) aware of the pastor’s comments 2) aware of the pastor’s beliefs 3) aware of the pastor’s political leanings?? This is a Pastor he respects and a church he regularly attended.
The logical thing he should have done was to severe ties with the pastor if he didn’t share the pastor’s toxic views long before it was politically expedient to do so. How many people is Obama going to severe ties with because they hurt his inordinate ambition to become the first black president, how many? There is an old adage that says, show me who your friends and acquaintances are and I will show you who you truly are! Americans, don’t be fooled by Obama, the media and his campaign people, that his actions are just mere indiscretions. THEY ARE NOT! They go to the heart of who he truly his. He is an opportunist, a calculating and dangerous person, who will deny past associations that hurt his inordinate ambition to make history
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#51 BillTyrone
Curiously, I agree with most of what you said.
I hope, though, that exposing an at least mostly Arab country to democracy will give them a taste for it. Jordan is moving steadily in that direction and the Iraqis and Jordanians are close.
As for US contractors (and no doubt others) making off with money - all that seems to appear is the holes in the accounting.
You'd think by now someone would have been charged with something. Maybe if Barack Obama wins ? I hope so.
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Post 47 gunsandreligion
"Probably the best thing that could happen to the Republican party at this point would be to be decisively defeated at the polls. They would have to examine why they lost."
gnr - that's what has happened in the UK. Labour became unelectable and it took 4 elections before they were able to re-invent themselves as centrist "new labour" with Tony Blair.
Now 3 elections later it could be reversing as Labour mess up and the Conservatives try to move into the middle ground.
It does depend on the party's reaction to defeat. Initally labour moved left on the grounds that it had lost "beacuse it hadn't been socialist enough". It was soon disabused of that notion.
The conservative went through a phase of trying to be more right-wing before being dragged back to the centre.
It may be that the GOP will go right-wing for an election or two before finally learning the lesson.
You're all doing very well !!
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Ooooohhhh
I just mistyped some HTML and got an error message instead of just losing the comment.
They were doing 'maintenance' on the system this morning - maybe that was what it was.
So if you type a comment, the thing goes away for a minute and the comment is still there, try looking just below it for an error message.
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"There are some situations one simply cannot be neutral about,
because when you are neutral you are an accomplice.
Objectivity doesn't mean treating all sides equally.
It means giving each side a hearing."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christiane_Amanpour
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Judging by McCain's refocus on the economy, I would say that many americans really don't give a **** that McCain/Palin are throwing all this mud at Obama. Or rather they do slightly and the effect is to puch the GOP's negativesw up as it appears that they are not bothered about the real issues (economy). Also the mud slinging and dirty tactics looks too much like a Bush/Cheney trick.
Americans look sick of it.
Obama 08
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#69
Perhaps it wasn't pointed out by McCain/Palin because they have a few things they dont want the electorate to know.......
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7653938.stm
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#73 alanskillcole
It is implicit in that that the reporter makes a judgment on what is 'right' and 'wrong' in the situation reported.
Who are they to do that ?
I should add that I have great respect for Christiane Amanpour.
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I don't understand this idea that you would want a leader who is just like you. Surely you would want someone who is very intelligent and with great leadership skills to lead your country? Palin does not fit that bill by any stretch of the imagination. She simply is not fit for the office.
The only people I could think of who would actually want such a weak person in the office of POTUS are libertarians who are in favour of weak government.
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#71 Young-Mr-Grace
Difference is, we don't have presidential and gubernatorial elections here.
All that you describe can happen at the congressional and gubernatorial elections so the whole evolution could be a lot different and crucially, personality rather than policy based in many of those elections.
Bear in mind that the Barack Obama healthcare plan - a flagship policy - is based on the system already running in Massachusetts.
Governor of Massachusetts ? Mitt Romney.
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"70. At 1:11pm on 09 Oct 2008, chill0 wrote:
#51 BillTyrone
Curiously, I agree with most of what you said.
I hope, though, that exposing an at least mostly Arab country to democracy will give them a taste for it. Jordan is moving steadily in that direction and the Iraqis and Jordanians are close.
As for US contractors (and no doubt others) making off with money - all that seems to appear is the holes in the accounting.
You'd think by now someone would have been charged with something. Maybe if Barack Obama wins ? I hope so."
Could you perhaps explain what you mean by giving arabs a taste of democracy actually means?
Do you think Arabs, unique among human ethnic groups, apparently do not like democracy?
Are you aware that the US etc has been at pains to prevent arab democracy - where do you think Mubarak and the Saudis get their support from?
Are you aware that when the Palesitnians had a free and fair vote they were then treated like animals? In a policy led by the US?
Are you aware that Israel, routinely imprisons, raids, blocks, fires upon Palestinian MPs with US made weapons? And occuupies 4 million people, but routinely (and falsely) claims to be a western democracy?
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76. At 1:28pm on 09 Oct 2008, chill0 wrote:
#73 alanskillcole
"There are some situations one simply cannot be neutral about, because when you are neutral you are an accomplice. Objectivity doesn't mean treating all sides equally. It means giving each side a hearing."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christiane_Amanpour
It is implicit in that that the reporter makes a judgment on what is 'right' and 'wrong' in the situation reported.
Who are they to do that?"
Because they are supposed to be informed! That is the whole point!
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Ref 71
McCain's assertion that the government should spend $300B purchasing mortgages, and that he would respect Pakistan's sovereignty if Osama bin Laden, the mastermind of 9/11, slipped into that country are not centrist positions, they are so far to the left they make Ted Kennedy look conservative!
The GOP remains conservative, both on fiscal matters (W is an aberration) and on social matters. That is the reason their policies appeal to half of our population. Fortunately for the democrats Bush, Cheney, the neocons, and corporate America have not only moved too far to the right, but have embraced fiscal policies that are inconsistent with fiscal conservatism - such as the borrow and spend policies of Bush II - and have engaged in a systematic dismantling of our civil and constitutional rights to a point that is unacceptable to many Republicans. Palin has energized the GOP religious base, but has done little to reassure fiscal conservatives and intellectuals.
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Post 78 Chill0
Point taken. I guess that without the same sort of party structure the process of learning from defeat and moving onto new ground will be a lot more fragmented in the US.
You're all doing very well !!
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To those saying the BBC is anti-war/leftist...if it's a stupid war it's valid to highlight the stupidity...rather than play a fake "I need to be unbiased" note.
Highlight it through investigation, through commentary - rather than giving the folks exactly what they want to hear.
If that was the case, those pro- listen to Fox/read the Telegraph(?)' those anti-, read Guardian, etc
ciao
-----------
"CNN's top war correspondent, Christiane Amanpour, says that the press muzzled itself during the Iraq war. And, she says CNN "was intimidated" by the Bush administration and Fox News, which "put a climate of fear and self-censorship." "
------
Said Amanpour: "I think the press was muzzled, and I think the press self-muzzled. I'm sorry to say, but certainly television and, perhaps, to a certain extent, my station was intimidated by the administration and its foot soldiers at Fox News. And it did, in fact, put a climate of fear and self-censorship, in my view, in terms of the kind of broadcast work we did."
----------
Fox News spokeswoman Irena Briganti said of Amanpour's comments: "Given the choice, it's better to be viewed as a foot soldier for Bush than a spokeswoman for al-Qaeda."
CNN had no comment.
http://www.usatoday.com/life/columnist/mediamix/2003-09-14-media-mix_x.htm
Walter Cronkite says the unthinkable about the Vietn...
Walter Cronkite says the unthinkable about the Vietnam War in a time when it was not P.C. to voice your opinions as a news broadcaster, let alone a negative opinion.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=fOtwbyNp0LQ
Some say Cronkite's coverage of the Vietnam War hastened America's exit from that grand mistake. After visiting Vietnam to report on the Tet offensive, Cronkite broke from his usual impartiality to editorialize that, from his perspective, the war seemed "unwinnable". President Lyndon B. Johnson, watching the telecast, reportedly turned to an aide and said, "If I've lost Cronkite, I've lost middle America".
http://www.nndb.com/people/313/000022247/
His steadfast refusal to toe the official line caused an international dispute after he referred to the new prime minister of Ceylon, on air, as "an inexperienced eccentric at the head of a government of mediocrities".
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/correspondents/newsid_2946000/2946278.stm
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*Warning: Good joke coming!
I've just heard (from a Fox News commentator, no less, but on Sky News in Britain, where they sometimes say things they daren't at home) that the Fed/Treasury are considering doing what Gordon Brown and the Labour(!) Government has done here: buying into the banks to ensure they'll go back to lending again because there is no confidence that the bail-out plan for just buying rubbish worthless debt either has worked so far or will work.
Now that's really funny. (I'd like to be a fly on the wall when our Chancellor Alastair Darling gets to the US . . .)
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"Foo Fighters fight McCain over song use
11:12 | Thursday October 9, 2008
Just days after Madonna announced her intentions to ban Sarah Palin from attending any of her forthcoming live shows, Foo Fighters have come out in battle against John McCain over his use of their song, My Hero, in his presidential campaign.
The US rock band have said the Republican’s use “tarnishes” the track and had been appropriated without the band’s knowledge.
In response, a spokeman for the Republican party said it had licences to play “millions of different songs”.
Other artists, including Heart, have all asked McCain to stop using their songs, while soul singer Sam Moore has asked the same of Democrat rival Barack Obama. "
Source: http://www.musicweek.com/story.asp?storycode=1035774
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#72 chill0
As well as the more useful error message, it looks like the BBC techies have fixed the ampersand problem, and it can now be typed direct -
&
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#24
Thanks 80. It was getting cold up there.
She will. Like the purple too, it suits her.
Fashion Victim Sam
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"Unfortunately Sarah Palin is an albatros round the neck of John McCain's neck"
Did you SEE the debate the other night?
As a spectating American I couldnt believe it.
While I often find it questionable that Palin is allowed out of Alaska for fear of folksy "Waltonesqe" catchphrases like "golly gee" and "doggone it" from catching on. I found myself shocked at McCains performance and while I often refer to Palin as functionally retarded it seemed like McCain was a mass of agitated senility. When he mentioned that he was going to find Osama I had to stop myself from going into a shock induced seizure. When the country is financially aneimic and I have to work two jobs this genious wants to go on an expensive goose hunt that I get to pay for. Yay!
It seemed like when asked about problems he gave vague solutions which were the equivelant of my dad deciding to build a deck in the back yard. From experience I can tell you that all your left with is a yard you cant use and you have to explain to people how your father is very busy and hasnt gotten around to even though hed do a really bang up job if he did. (Such was my childhood)
Of course Obama was only vaguely better rambling off numbers and statistics to the point that I think I might have blacked out and gone into a trance but at least he could pay attention and show respect while McCain was talking. McCain wandered around the stage so much I wondered if he had a charlie horse or perhaps really really needed to use the bathroom.
Honestly I could rant an hour or three about McCain but as for Palin, she's the nicest thing about McCains campaign even if she is setting back women about 50 years.
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Apologies to those who revere Reagan, but to me the continuity between Reagan and Palin is marked. The man who never read a single book meets the woman who can't name a single magazine. I realize the differences are striking as well, but being not just ignorant, but proud of it, is something they both have in common. Each in their way represented an acceleration in the path away from the highly learned and rational tradition of the founders of the country.
Also, McCain has started to edge back in the poll I watch. It seems more the pendulum effect than anything else--they've swung between McCain up two and Obama up 7 every 2 weeks or so--but it might just have something to do with McCain announcing he has an economic plan. It's crap if you ask me, but I give him credit for trying to come up with something. It's more than can be said of Obama.
When you're in a deep hole you want to hear a prospective leader tell you how he plans to lead you out of it. You don't want to hear him talk about how the other prospective leader has nasty friends. It seems McCain has realized that.
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Now, if the Democrats could have a word with the Dixie Chicks....
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Palin's husband had unusual access to her staff
Troopergate first dude
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anti intellectualism has been the new trend for a while now. I suppose it speaks to the failures of the education system. When politicians can successfully make the argument that if one is educated, they are elitist and not fit to lead, and it appeals to so many people, then it threatens to take the country backwards.
like it or not the role of a president or vice president is not for 'common folk' ,
not in a country like the united states. not for a country with the largest economy in the world, and definately not for a country who has very skillful and calculating rivals looking for every opportunity to take you down.
in 2000 the nation elected Bush, because 'he seems like an ordinary guy'. what happened after?
2 - wars one of which was started under false pretenses.
-almost bankrupt economy.
-tarnished international reputation because the leadersip abandoned the nations principles (condoning toruture, ignoring geneva conventions etc.)
-lost credibility accross the world.
-selling of nukes to india, abandoning e th efforts for disarmament efforts (potentially sparking an arms race in south east asia and the middle east).
-a vice president who tends to ignore the constitution.
-attempts to pass laws that are unconstitutional, laws that will violate the rights of many americans.
-turning the white house into a partisan platform, going as far as making partisan statements while addressing international delegations overseas. Something all previous presidents avoided out of respect for the office they hold.
and the list goes on.
quite frankly its embarassing.
unfortunately if palin was president or V.P you can expect the same blunders and maybe even more since she is even less experienced on protocol.
SHe could not even tel us what the responsibilities of the vice president are when she was asked in the debate.
for once elect smart people.
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Palin after this election is over will be making the rounds of the evangelical christian cable TV shows and talk radio programs. It seems an apt place for her . Oh look for her new book , Hockey witches and Mooses, my journey of enlightenment from Idaho
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Palin appeals only to White, religious social conservatives in mainly rural areas. It's a powerful voting bloc but not enough on it's own. Fiscal conservatives are also horrified by McCain's $300bn mortgage purchase proposal while moderates and independents do not want to risk a President Palin in case McCain dies.
She's an immensly polarising figure who also energises the liberal base, especially educated young women in urban areas who see her as a backward step for women's rights and for America's image around the world. The donations have been pouring into Obama's coffers. He now has more money than he can spend in the next 26 days.
Having said that, McCain will definately get at least 45% of the vote. He will max out the GOP base. Conservatives are always more motivated to vote than liberals no matter what the circumstances. The question is whether Obama can turn out more Democrats and moderate Independents.
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"in 2000 the nation elected Bush, because 'he seems like an ordinary guy'. what happened after?" - Moderate Observer
Actually Bush is Ivy league enducated and comes from a family deep seated in polotics and money so I dont think that it's fair to say he's undereducated or an viewed as an "ordinary guy"
He had the brilliant campaign strategy of actually being interesting, likeable and decisive which you might scoff at but while I didnt vote for him myself I could understand why people did....the first time. The second election played on the fears of a terrified country where if you didnt have a flag sticker on your car and a ribbon supporting our troops you were unpatriotic and letting the terrorists win. He wanted us raging outward to war instead of building our resources and economy which was what the terrorists were attacking (In my opinion they've won the war. Honestly I think we were fighting in a completely different battlefield)
Before you judge all americans as unintelligent, slow-witted sheep please remember that many other countries have been led by charismatic leaders into doing the craziest most heinous things.
Besides Clinton was a charismatic "everyman" and he led us into a booming economy (which Bush promptly destroyed like a sandcastle at high tide) Id say other than the overworked libido we did a good job on that one. Of course we did try to impeach him but hey, ...We're trying to make history here.
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Give me Sarah Palin, any day, instead of the pompous arrogant bloviating (cheeks sucking and whistling in and out) obama, I still cannot figure out what this nobody from Chicago has actually done that’s any good ! yet he is being worshipped by the left and blown up by the media. It’s coming out now his surrogates are registering fake voters all over the country, in some cases 1 person being registered 27 times, and according to ACORN spokes people it’s the county’s responsibility to weed out false ones, they seem to think it’s ok to submit fake ones, obviously hoping that the amount they submit plenty will slip through, Obama is going to win, because its being stolen through fake voters.
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*94 cyrilcroydon wrote:"Palin appeals only to White, religious social conservatives in mainly rural areas. "
There you go again you people trying to make sweeping comments lumping groups of people in, instead of seeing it for what it is, I am not religous at all and neither is my wife or father in law, and we all Like Palin, so you need to re-think and stop trying to stereotype people.
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""The question is whether Obama can turn out more Democrats and moderate Independents.""
When ACORN is registering one person 27 times and even dead people, it sure looks like obama is turning out the democrats, even dead ones !
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98
Did ACORN really register McCain?
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"Actually Bush is Ivy league enducated and comes from a family deep seated in polotics and money so I dont think that it's fair to say he's undereducated or an viewed as an "ordinary guy"
Monk, as an American a little more familiar with the locals, I beg to differ. The paradoxes of W. include that while he does have a Yale degree, he is astonishingly ignorant. (He isn't the first rich boy to have gotten through Yale or Harvard without learning anything.) Also, while he is in fact as close as an American can get to blue-blooded (his family is an old New England one that includes a senator for a grandfather), most voters viewed him as he portrayed himself: a salt of the earth Texan.
The paradox of Clinton, on the other hand, was that while he portrayed himself as a salt of the earth southerner, he is in fact one of the most intellectually gifted and academically accomplished presidents we've ever had.
Even an idiot might understand it's better to have a smart guy than a stupid one as president, and recent experience bears this out...
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:"Palin appeals only to White, religious social conservatives in mainly rural areas. "
I grudgingly agree withblue in that Palin does have a wider demographic than the religious conservative in rural areas though Id bet that they are a firm constituant.
The rant about Acorn smacks a little of paranoia to me though.
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"Monk, as an American a little more familiar with the locals, I beg to differ."
I am an american Einstein
And while I dont think W is rational I think he's intelligent enough to know that hes getting away with murder by shrugging his shoulders and playing the fool. He's sneaky.
Not caring about what he's doing to the American people does not an idiot make. It's more of a self serving intelligence really. While we're feasting on Government cheese dont think that he's not laughing his way to the bank.
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To go back to # 84 ~ British
British, Paulson has to do it - otherwise he'll never get the money circulating again (i.e. bank landing to bank).
I do agree with you about who would ever have thunk it - that a British Labour Prime Minister would have to take the lead and show Wall Street what they need to do !
And btw, the McCain mortgage lender proposal seems, now that everyone has absorbed it, to have gone down like a lead balloon. Particularly with serious Republicans. What on earth did his team think that they were up to in handing him that particular grenade ?
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#95 plutoniummonk : you made a good point, but honestly,
his 'education' really means little, he was born with a platinum spoon in his mouth being a bush, (a true elitist),
if he had not been well connected im pretty sure he would be going to a community college somewhere before hitting the assembly line at GM. ordinary blue collar.
I highly doubt he was smart enough to undermine the country the way he did, it was the puppet masters behind the scenes, who we didnt vote for.
his mastermind campaign was run by karl rove.
thats what happens when we have blank slates running for president, they just do as directed without any knowledge or concern as to how it really affects the nations well being.
just my opinion.
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If McCain would have picked a boring vp, he would never have gained this amount of support. Palin appeals to personal pride by claiming she understands us and is just like us. *shudder*
Unfortunately, I don't think VP is a job just any of us can do - that's why we supposedly elect our best & brightest (which doesn't say much for our national intellect I'm afriad). If she's anything like the average American, she's severely unqualified for the position.
And I can't vote for somebody that chooses an unqualified VP. Who on earth would he choose as cabinet members? The Wasilla City Council? Certainly not our most intelligent and respected journalist, Tom Brokaw... lol
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# 101 Monk
The rant about Acorn sounds to me as though the writer has been taking everything that he reads on Drudge as the gospel truth.
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Point taken about stereotyping, but so far I haven't met an urban liberal who likes Palin.
If people vote only on cultural and personal identification grounds, then Palin is a plus for McCain. After all, that's why Bush got "elected" twice (but there is doubt about Florida in 2000 of course).
Nate Silver makes a good point that Obama has reached his support ceiling and it will be hard to maintain such a big lead. The polls will tighten, of that there is no doubt unless the economy collapses completely in the next few weeks
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/10/what-is-obamas-ceiling.html
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Tim0thy (#68), no, Clinton did not "almost remove (our) National Debt," but he did reduce it as a percentage of GDP.
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"if he had not been well connected im pretty sure he would be going to a community college somewhere before hitting the assembly line at GM. ordinary blue collar." MO
Oh i agree that if he'd been left to his own devices he would be selling used cars or possibly managing a McDonalds but I think that it's convenient for him to act like he has no idea whats going on.
And I wasnt trying to insinuate that he was planning to ruin the U.S. but only that he was making a profit for himself.
Yes he seems like a moronic puppet but he's been in the game long enough to be aware and know what he's doing. Lots of flash and no substance. Hes built an empire on looking like he's actually doing something while nothing is resolved and the situation worsens. Kind of a machiavelian approach to being lazy and playing with his toy soldiers I think.
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36. At 09:39am on 09 Oct 2008, hainesoides wrote:
A european poll was done recently and showed Obama having over 90% of the popular vote- let's hope the American public are just as wise!
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Good luck buddy.
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107, cyril
One of the comments on 538 also asked a pertinent question: has McCain found his floor? ie. is his base actually going to vote, or will some GOP folk simply stay at home; in which case Obama might benefit in percentage though not real vote terms.
What I really want to see is a survey with a sample of 8-900 by someone like CNN for Louisiana. When ARG surveyed on 9-12 September, McCain was +7. Since then Georgia has moved about 5% to Obama, but not enough to make a difference; however 5% in Louisiana could put it in play. Some new data would be very useful.
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102. At 4:01pm on 09 Oct 2008, PlutoniumMonk wrote:
"Monk, as an American a little more familiar with the locals, I beg to differ."
I am an american Einstein
And while I dont think W is rational I think he's intelligent enough to know that hes getting away with murder by shrugging his shoulders and playing the fool. He's sneaky.
Not caring about what he's doing to the American people does not an idiot make. It's more of a self serving intelligence really. While we're feasting on Government cheese dont think that he's not laughing his way to the bank.
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I'd agree .Bush has played the fools of america, as fools, for his own ends.
It is not him facing ruin really,Unless we get him impeached.
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#106 eightypercent wrote:
# 101 Monk
The rant about Acorn sounds to me as though the writer has been taking everything that he reads on Drudge as the gospel truth. ..........................
Prove it wrong, its on the front page of New York newspapers, ACORN are hiring people to register new voters, they are using tactics of getting people to register multiple times, PROVE IT wrong before you spout off inaccuracies. Cases of 1 person 27 times, another 15 times, 3 people who have been subd to testify state they were pressured by ACORN into doing it.
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#110 jacksforge wrote:
36. At 09:39am on 09 Oct 2008, hainesoides wrote:
A european poll was done recently and showed Obama having over 90% of the popular vote- let's hope the American public are just as wise!
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Then why don't the idiots in Europe take him,
obama for President............ of GERMANY
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dueduprock (#48) wrote: " ... Mccain just needs to shout "commie!" on voting day and McPalin will be ushered into the White House."
I don't think so. I am reminded of Sen. Joseph McCarthy, who had some success shouting "commie" for awhile. When he took his act to television, people could see what a pathetic fraud he was, and they stepped taking him seriously. That was the end for him.
McCain has similarly hurt himself by his exposure on the televised debates. Nobody who matters takes his attacks on Obama seriously anymore.
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Then why don't the idiots in Europe take him,
obama for President............ of GERMANY
-Bluepaddy
note to self: move to Germany
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#97, #98, #101, #106
With regards to voter registration, folks have been registered multiple times for years, the counties do pick up on it and since you have to provide ID the first time you vote it is hardly likely that someone could vote multiple times. This also applies to postal ballots so there is no way to mail in multiple votes either.
This is just another angry red herring from the McCain camp who seem to have totally given up on any kind of policy statement after Johnny offered to buy up anyones house and change the value of the mortgage. Apart from being the worst economic idea since, let me think, borrow and spend, he didn't even deliver it well.
What ACORN does do is encourage folks to register. We should all applaude this, who wants to live in a society where we deliberately try to disenfranchise folks from their obligation to vote?
Sad Sam
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ref#113 -bluepaddy
and how does this help Obama in the long run. If anything this hurts him in the election and not just because it looks shady. I like to keep in mind the fact that if I was famous there would be at LEAST three people willing to make false accusations against me for whatever self serving purposes they might have. Give me twenty or more credible people (since its as widespread as you say that shouldnt be hard) and I might notice
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rep #117 exactly Sam
I agree completely
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# 113
Quite. Some newspapers have been given this story (see Sam's comment above about the emptiness of it) and Drudge has dutifully picked up. As he would.
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117. At 4:43pm on 09 Oct 2008, SamTyler1969 wrote:
What ACORN does do is encourage folks to register. We should all applaude this, who wants to live in a society where we deliberately try to disenfranchise folks from their obligation to vote?
What ACORN is trying to do is FRAUD, they register DEAD people, how do you applaud that?? there is nothing to applaud ACORN for, they register people multiple times who use only a Social Security card as ID and one woman had FOUR of them, that means she can vote four times in four different locations. nothing to disenfranchise people, why would the future of the nation be in the hands of people who ARE TOLD who to vote for, i.e ACORN telling them who to vote for
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118. At 4:49pm on 09 Oct 2008, PlutoniumMonk wrote:
ref#113 -bluepaddy
and how does this help Obama in the long run. If anything this hurts him in the election and not just because it looks shady. I like to keep in mind the fact that if I was famous there would be at LEAST three people willing to make false accusations against me for whatever self serving purposes they might have. Give me twenty or more credible people (since its as widespread as you say that shouldnt be hard) and I might notice.............
Not too sure you really want to know do you? ACORN is under investigation in several states where cases of this have come to light, why should I give you anything more, TRY looking properly
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I found this from Project Vote on voting requirements. [Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator] I don't doubt the facts presented, but the conclusions are rather curious. It states "Americans have real concerns about the integrity of their election system, given recent controversies about ballot design, vote counting, and the security of new voting machines" yet ignores concerns about ID and claims that IDs should not be required. So people should be free to rig the system on the basis that not a significant number get caught doing this.
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She’s one of us – a gun totin’, bible thumpin’, deer guttin’, hockey mom, and yeehaw – an expert on arcane foreign policy.
As much as I can relate to people similar to me, I wouldn’t want a dentist like, me, a doctor like me, and definitely a mechanic like me to solve problems that they know better how to solve than I.
Why do so many people want someone so obviously under-qualified potentially running our country.
Then again – she has God on her side. So did Bush, and it is safe to say his presidency has been an unmitigated disaster.
Let’s keep God out of the White House this time.
Please
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124. At 5:07pm on 09 Oct 2008, MajorModernMan wrote:
Why do so many people want someone so obviously under-qualified potentially running our country..................... EXACTELY, why would anyone want obama running the country, the most unqualified top of a ticket to run in 100 years...........
obama is the one running for president and he has no more experience than Palin who is SECOND on the ticket.
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No doubt about who Justin's backing at the impartial BBC. And no, I am not supportive of ANY political party - they are all snake oil salesmen (and women) as far as I am concerned!
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Flipping the facts. as in flipping the finger to facts.
Mc Cain on the stump saying" why does Obama never answer a question."
right after him and Palin forgot to answer any questions.
At least Obama ans biden occasionally tried.
But again and again the GOP and it's nominees have done this.
The same as Ma and Ninny et al,
they accuse the others of their own faults.
they look in the mirror , see the problem yet still come out with , "it's him not me".
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#108 re me #68
Thanks for correcting me Gary
I did say 'possibly incorrectly' I wasn't sure. After all I am just an ignorant Brit adding my 20 pence to the pot so to speak. Did you follow the link? If I was a Democrat campaign manager handed a news item like that I would know what to do with it.
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What ACORN is trying to do is FRAUD, they register DEAD people, how do you applaud that?? there is nothing to applaud ACORN for, they register people multiple times who use only a Social Security card as ID and one woman had FOUR of them- bluepaddy
sounds like it was the registree commiting fraud to me. Have you ever WORKED wit ha voluteer for the government? they dont know their *** from their elbow half the time. and as for the PROVE IT comment earlier people do that about religion alot and I find it annoying how about YOU prove it. I dont post any "facts" I cant back up with proof on hand. As the matter is still under investigation it seems you are quoting THEORY as FACT (wikepedia those words if you dont understand) and as for Obama somehow orchestrating the whole debacle Im pretty sure he has other things on his mind than Chicago.
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I linked to a Project Vote pdf and got referred. Whether the mods didn't like the pdf, or didn't like project vote I could not say.
The document gave a breakdown on registration and ID requirements, state by state. I thought that this would be a useful link as it gave detail on what is acceptable as ID.
I have no reason to doubt their facts. Their conclusion, though, was just wrong. They state "Americans have real concerns about the integrity of their election system, given recent controversies about ballot design, vote counting, and the security of new voting machines". Apparently, though, the requirement for ID should be dropped because only a few people get caught trying to rig the election this way.
All election rigging is wrong, and all known looholes should be plugged, else the self-styled home of democracy just looks like a fool.
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69. icetayoa
... fraud that he is...
... busload of indiscretions already in the public domain...
... more articulate and sustained discourse on his bad judgement in the past that could cost the American people clearly if elected president...
...he is an opportunist...
... a calculating and dangerous person who will deny past associations that hurt his inordinate ambition to make history...
Mmm, interesting stripping out just five niceties about someone that you have regurgitated. In fact just re-reading you might have been perfectly summarising somebody elses' profile!
Sorry icetayoa, presentationally and in substance, what a load of complete clap trap. Others might be interested to know if bluepaddy13 aka JohnAAA *vivaelcid* and yourself are on shift for a couple of hours here now until AndreainNY pops up to relieve you later by any chance? !
...... Someone recently pointed out that we live life the wrong way around.......
Die first; spend 15 years or so in an old peoples home with staff running around after you 24-7; then commence your career with the benefit of a lifetimes experience and judgement to call on; excel at work and have an incredible career; meet the woman of your dreams when ready for her; enjoy married life and family; then spend nine months in a fully plumbed in jacuzzi and go out with a big bang....
Frankly, the desperado bile that Gov Palin and people like yourself are throwing about about his judgement and dangerous former liaisons is akin to heaving an anchor overboard having forgotten to think first and fix the anchor chain to the bow......
If you had any experience of leadership and life then you would probably be too ashamed to make such general sweeping statements hoping something would stick by association.
I said a few weeks ago about Sen Obama that I fully accepted and expected that as a young man growing up it is absolutely likely that his roadmap of life, like yours and mine and most of the rest reading this, included *experiences* and rubbing shoulders with the good; the bad; and the ugly.
If you actually take a moment to study his family background and visualise and perceive the tortuous yellow brick road he has travelled from humble origins to better himself, cope and learn from life experiences leading to this very day, then that speaks volumes for me.
To my knowledge he didn't have the arcetypical grandfather figure as mentor, which many young men are so lucky to have, to help part waters and advise and certainly no silver spoon in the bouche either.
So, the fact that he has had experience of a variety of personalities and maybe dodgy characters in his early adult life actually means much more to me when assessing the value added at this, here and now, stage of his life in terms of his judgement, perception and integrity. I am only too sure that his daughters will benefit enormously from the positives distilled from this.
One litmus test is this....... was Barack Obama ever charged; found guilty; convicted and or end up in prison as a result of these broad, brown (hope some sticks), aspersions of yours??
x2 final points. First, putting Sen Obama alongside a x2 term President right now to compare judgement and capability from a standing start........ he leaves GWB stranded on the grid choking in dust. Second, I am not looking for someone who does not need on the job training as POTUS..... I am seeking an individual with the core qualities who can and will develop into the role. Most importantly, one who is prepared to listen carefully and continue learning until his very last day in office.
Now, take your list of x5 points and go and apply it to the barons of corporate America, my friend.
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#121
Paddy,
At risk of being patronizing you don't even need a social security card to register. You just fill in the form and tick a box. Then the voter ID card is sent to the address you put in. This is control number 1, you would have to have 4 addresses to register 4 times and get 4 cards. And they would have to be in 4 different districts. Johnny M could pull that one off.
Control 2 is the social security number is checked against the list of citizens to stop them pesky illegals from voting. It's also checked against the list of convicted felons since we disenfranchise them.
Control number 3 is the first time you vote you take your passport and ID with your address. Or copy that and mail it in for your postal ballot. So you'd need 4 driving licenses with different addresses. There are checks to stop that too. Only if you try to vote in 2 places does fraud occur.
So could you commit fraud. Sure. But there are lots of ways to prevent that. May be easier to tamper with an electronic machine, we could chat about the whole Diebolt thing at the last election but that would probably bring a few crazies out of the woodwork.
As for voting for who they are told to, we've been suffering from that for the last 4 years. Evangelicals deliver major blocks of votes to the Republicans in the south every election by telling their flock how to vote.
If people are stupid enough not to make up their own mind, you have to respect it. It is, after all, their vote. Applying an intelligence test at the booth sounds like a nice idea, but it isn't democracy. Though I suspect it would be a good way to reduce the Republican vote.
Or we could do it the way the founding fathers did, and limit voters to fat, bald middle aged white guys with lots of cash.
Works for me.
Happy Sam
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My Opinion is Sarah Palin was chosen for the sole purpose of contradicting Obama's popularity. The mere fact that Mccain and his team chose Palin just to draw attention instead of getting someone qualified is really scary. It seems that the crisis and the election is a turning point or a crossroad not only for the American nation but for the whole world.
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eightypercent wrote:
British, Paulson has to do it - otherwise he'll never get the money circulating again (i.e. bank landing to bank).
I do agree with you about who would ever have thunk it - that a British Labour Prime Minister would have to take the lead and show Wall Street what they need to do!
And btw, the McCain mortgage lender proposal seems, now that everyone has absorbed it, to have gone down like a lead balloon. Particularly with serious Republicans. What on earth did his team think that they were up to in handing him that particular grenade ?
I was discussing this with a friend earlier, and neither of us could actually see Congress (if what we read here is representative) passing anything like it. For one thing, the cost would possibly (probably?) be treble the bailout if not more.
As to McCain's lead balloon mortgage plan, I'm not surprised. I couldn't see how it could possibly work.
You 'buy' mortgages which people cannot repay, reduce the amount they pay to a level that they won't result in repossession, which, possibly, they still might not be able to repay, and then what?
The billions left over are just forgotten about? Written off? A 25 year mortgage is turned into a 50 or 75 or 100 year one? You might as well give every American mortgage holder half their mortgage in 100 dollar bills packed in a suitcase. Or buy their homes off them outright and charge them a low rent.
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Heck I just register when I get my license renewed.
I did see that ACORN was paying people to registerwhich explains why people would do that multiple times and also our southern immigrnats do have a tendency to use the socials of the dead and if I was them Id take a shot that my vote counted.
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132
Sam, if you need a passport to vote the first time, what the hell was Palin doing before last year?
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Ref 117
Sam, I am in full agreement with your conclusion, including the opinion that ACORN and other political organizations are doing a splendid job in encouraging people to register and vote. Frankly, I think the political apathy that a large segment of our population exhibits every election year contributes to the problems we are experiencing, and the dilemma that we often have when we have to choose between the lesser of two evils every few years. More activism, and popular oversight, are needed to ensure the best candidates are nominated, elected, and that they remain focused on the best interests of the people during their tenure.
I think the ire - and comtempt - that the GOP shows for the success of the Democratic party to encourage people to register and vote is amusing. Looks like Howard Dean, who is not my favorite person, beat them at their own game!
There is also a possibility that ACORN is one of several code words being used to incite racial hatred.
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The idea that Palin could be an Al Qaeda plant has crossed my mind. How else can her senseless spouting be explained?
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Evening all. Here's an exam question for the Brits on this board.
"Great Britain would have greater control over its own destiny if it were to become the 51st State of America. Discuss."
Consider this
- Britain is heavily affected by US foreign and (as we have seen in the last couple of weeks) economic policy
- US public opinion in the last few presidential elections has been finely balanced between the two main candidates, whereas British public opinion has usually been much more strongly oriented towards one candidate
- Britain's population is big enough that this would almost certainly have changed the result of the last two elections
Even if you believe the policy positions of the current candidates are too close to make much difference (highly debatable in itself), few could question that in the event of Palin taking the top job, the difference would be stark.
Time for a reverse takeover?
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I've seen somewhere some rather dismissive remarks on the lines of "the average Iraqi [read Arab, Pakistani, Vietnamese, Russian, Chinese?] is light years from understanding the benefits of democracy."
At the moment I can't say I quite grasp the benefits of American-style democracy either.
There's a (now oldish) Arabic joke: "You have to be nice to the Americans." "Why?" "If you aren't they'll bomb you into a democracy."
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#59 parissia
So you will vote for McCain/Palin because you are a racist, and not because of qualifications?
I don't know why I even let myself become angry over comments like that, because there is no one that can open your eyes.
McCain is too old and if he dies, Palin knows next to nothing, about anything. I don't want hockey moms/joe six-packs in the highest office in the land. Believe me I've been a bartender for 20 years, it would get ugly!
Heres a quote by Edmund Burke just for you.
"Learning will be cast into the mire, and trodden down under the hoofs of a swindish multitude".
Hope for your safe, crispy white candidates, but don't say you were'nt forwarned.
By the way I am a white 39 year old female from a wealthy small town. Grew up w/ republican ideals around me my whole life. Turns out I could'nt afford that town so moved 15 minutes away to a town w/ equal amounts of blacks and whites, which are overshadowed by a large hispanic population, half of which are illegal, and I would'nt trade it. I have a real sense of how things are for many different people.
Why would'nt you want someone in office that could hopefully bridge some of these gaps. It's not an easy thing, but it's got to happen sooner or later. Put your hate out w/ the next garbage pick-up, and do us all a favor.
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#60, JoeBiden, I'm glad that you showed up.
I'm not a Republican, just an independent voter.
I wasn't planning on voting, since I really don't trust
either party, but now it looks like I'm getting dragged
into this thing. There is a proposition on the ballot
in California which would require humane treatment
of farm animals. Since this is an issue that I feel
strongly about, I'm going to have to vote this time.
Darn!!!
british-ish, 80%, this idea that the Fed should
buy into these banks to get them to behave
instead of merely buying their junk assets makes
sense to me.
If it were up to me, I would put the CEOs of these
now bankrupt organizations out to pasture pulling
rickshaws somewhere. After all, that's how they
intended capitalism to work for everybody else.
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Why do you use the word - screeching? Is it a subliminal thing?
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# 131 and # 132
Just don't try and mess with either Bill or Sam again ? OK ?
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At 07:34am on 09 Oct 2008, hainesoides wrote:
"Why is it that it only seems to be in America where all these Christian neo-cons have such a big influence on voting?"
Not only in America. For example, in Europe, the religious are well in control of basically everything. I dare you for example to seriously challenge the catholic church in for example ireland.
In America, you have more freedom to express yourself, and frankly have more freedom to speak. That is the real difference !!
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Also that voting machine issue is very frightening. If McCain did somehow win and the counting process was in question at all, I predict we will see cities burn!
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73. At 1:18pm on 09 Oct 2008, alanskillcole wrote:
"There are some situations one simply cannot be neutral about,
because when you are neutral you are an accomplice.
Objectivity doesn't mean treating all sides equally.
It means giving each side a hearing."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christiane_Amanpour
-------------------------------
Well put Christine
and thanks for the contribution alanskillcole
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Okay, Plutonium, I owe you an apology, and should have figured out you were an American by context.
Truth is I made the mistake because I couldn't imagine an American saying
'I dont think that it's fair to say [Bush is] viewed...as an "ordinary guy"'
because I'd say that's quite accurate. I heard a ton of people in 2004, in particular, talk about how Bush was just like them, as opposed to that snooty Ivy League Kerry. I guess you didn't.
Einstein, aka redwhiteandermblue
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#136
David,
I think you can use a birth certificate and drivers license as well. Depends on the county. To be honest I have always had a passport so I use that when I move.
Confused Sam
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"the Republicans, who have after all been the party of ideas for most of the last 30 years . . . " Oh really? Those Republican ideas have convinced too many people in my country that greed is good, and God-forbid we should be obliged to help anyone else. Great numbers of us barely even want to pay taxes for roads, let alone the education of other people's children. The reign of George W. Bush is the logical end result of our willingness to vote for the interests of the ultra-wealthy, even if it means chopping off our own feet. After all, the American rags-to-riches mythology tells us we could all be on the top of the heap one day, and by damn, when that day comes we sure as Hell won't want to share one penny of that heap with anyone. All this from a party and a President that claim to be largely Christian. So, is everyone happy with 30 years of Republican "ideas."
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
"that's how they
intended capitalism to work for everybody else."
Guns, exactly! The ideal system, I think, is socialism for the poor and capitalism for the rich. The US has the exact opposite.
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Ref: 111 MarkfromOxford
Yes, another unknown is turnout on both sides.
Will all these young people and blacks really end up going to the polls?
How depressed will the GOP turnout be and will socially liberal fiscal conservatives stay at home in disgust both at Palin and also McCain's support for the bailout and $300bn housing package?
If Ron Paul was running, I would be confident that Obama would win by a landslide. However, no-one knows how many moderate conservatives will stay at home or if they will still vote for McCain because he is the least worst option from their point of view.
I think Obama can forget about Louisiana and even Georgia. He has the money to flood every state with ads so he might as well do it, but he should concentrate on Ohio, Florida and Virginia.
Indiana, N Carolina and Missouri would be a big bonus, but a lot depends on black turnout.
I actually think he has a better chance of taking Virginia than Ohio. From my anecdotal experience, I seem to come across more prejudiced cultural voters in Ohio than I do in Virginia. There are lots of them in Pennsylvania as well, but they are heavily outnumbered by the expansion of Philadelphia and its liberal suburbs.
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#5 - guns and religion...
I wonder if you have also seen the famous video where a guy went to Disneyland in Florida and randomly asked Americans who did they think America should invade next, and asked the person to stick a pin in a map of the world he had with him to show where they thought that country was. One guy says "France" another says the "Italy" but most replied Russia, North Korea or Iran (which I guess was to be expected).
The funniest part was when the guy held the map up, it actualy had that countries name written over Australia and most of them stuck the pin in without hesitation....No, Seriously! Can you believe one even commented "Why are those South koreans so scared of the guys in the North? I mean, look at the size of the two countries!" (He actually thought New Zealand was North Korea and Australia was South Korea!)
Obviously, this doesn't mean all Americans are stupid.......
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#121. bluepaddy13: "What ACORN is trying to do is FRAUD . . . they register people multiple times who use only a Social Security card as ID and one woman had FOUR of them, that means she can vote four times in four different locations."
You cannot blame the organisation for the actions of individual workers. More to the point would be to compare the potential of that one person voting four times with hacking into electronic (computer) voting equipment, which might alter the resulting votes cast by thousands or even tens of thousands.
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Anyone that thinks an illegal immigrant will risk being captured and deported to influence the outcome of an election in the USA is more naive than I thought.
Illegal immigrants try to remain anonymous and out of sight. Quite frankly, they could care less about Obama, McCain or any other politician running for office; what they want is a job so that they can send money home.
I suppose things may be different in some states, but when I vote in Florida I have to show a picture ID, my address is verified, I have to sign where my name appears, and a label is placed next to where my name is printed indicating I voted. I am not sure how I, or someone else, could go back and vote multiple times, or how dead people could be magically resurrected and reincarnated as illegal immigrants to skew our elections. Looks like frustration or paranoia is setting in.
Perhaps Karl Rove could provide some guidance on this subject...
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""Great Britain would have greater control over its own destiny if it were to become the 51st State of America. Discuss.""
I know I'm an American, but I'm all for it. You'd be an improving influence. Plus it hardly seems fair that you're our unsinkable aircraft carrier without representation.
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145. At 5:51pm on 09 Oct 2008, digitalwelldone wrote:
At 07:34am on 09 Oct 2008, hainesoides wrote:
"Why is it that it only seems to be in America where all these Christian neo-cons have such a big influence on voting?"
Not only in America. For example, in Europe, the religious are well in control of basically everything. I dare you for example to seriously challenge the catholic church in for example ireland.
In America, you have more freedom to express yourself, and frankly have more freedom to speak. That is the real difference !---------------------------------
which is why the people of N Ireland voted to stay part of the UK when given a chance, but americans continued to fund the troubles because they thought they knew better.
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Sarah Palin for the Presidency? Don't be so ridiculous. The American people would never vote anybody with such a small interlect into the White House.
Hang on! What am I saying? George W (twice).
Ummmmm a rethink!
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I think something that both the UK and USA should at for the banks they invest in, is that the top management are put on the same salary levels as their equivalent civil servants.
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160
Sorry, that should read "look" at.
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Ref. 137
It looks like ACORN is now going to have its Federal funding cut because of fraud, not just voter registration fraud, but fraud in the use of Congressional funding. Apparently ACORN was given money for exclusive use in low income housing, but that money went into voter registration drives where dead and fake people registered to vote. And in other news today, Obama has admitted to financial dealings with ACORN, but he claims that they were clerical errors.
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121. At 4:59pm on 09 Oct 2008, bluepaddy13 wrote:
What ACORN does do is encourage squirrels to give up acorns. We should all applaude this, who wants to live in a society where acorns are deliberately eaten.
What ACORN is trying to do is create a healthcare system for Nuts, they register DEAD people, You got to applaud that.
there is nothing to criticise ACORN for, they only register people multiple times who have no nuts , one woman had FOUR of them, that means she can eat four nuts in four different locations. starting to franchise people as nuts, why would the future of the nation be in the hands of people who ARE NUTS who to vote for,squirrels.
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# 145 Digital
I believe that modern Ireland has developed a very healthy attitude towards the Catholic Church.
Remember the late Charlie Haughey ? He would have been laughed into the Liffey if he had tried to pretend that he preferred the Church to the race course. And I don't think that the much admired Bertie Aherne ever tried to sell himself as a religious man (well, certainly not after his divorce).
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ref#148 well compared to Kerry yes but then Kerry has that wierd, possibly cloned vibe.
The wierd thing is Bush was as much a Texan as his brother was a Floridian. (Jeb- the killer of seacows) but hey thats marketing for you.
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112. At 4:32pm on 09 Oct 2008, jacksforge
Jack, missed something you did, heck with impeachment, we need to talk prosecution.
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sorry mods I asked that the bluepill's posting that gave the impression I was a racist jerk be taken down.
it took so long I assumed they had decided to ignore it so wrote a letter of total rubbish in response .i think 163 specifically but I am sure many will say all.
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Ref 154
I agree that most Americans have very little interest in what takes place overseas, and in world history and geography, but I think you are mistaken if you assume that a significant segment of our population is as ignorant as you depicted.
Ignorant people can be found everywhere, including in your country.
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Interesting idea,
Now that Cindy has starting making vitriolic comments about Obama just like Palin, she has become a legitimate political target. I think we can do away with the whole red state / blue state thing and resolve the election in a fun, fair and entertaining way.
Michelle and Cindy should wrestle for it.
Not only could we save the expense of the election and use it to pay down the deficit, we could show it on Pay Per View and make it a revenue generator. I would for one would be willing to pay $25 to watch Michelle kick Cindy's butt.
Electoral Reform Sam
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# 156 - Ah c'mon Dominick. You don't really think that Karl Rove might know anything about this, do you. Gasp ! Well fancy. Whatever made you think a thing like that.
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In ref. 154
YouTeeDeeH8r, could you post a link to that video? Unfortunately, Geography is just not taught anymore in American schools it seems. I remember I once had a conversation with a friend about a chat he had online with someone from Illinois; that person from Illinois had no idea where Louisiana is. Oh, and for the people who say that Conservatives do not joke, does everyone remember Obama's 57 states gaffe? That is what I call funny.
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ref#156
its easier than you think. Im from Florida myself and Ive seen some crazy things from some illegals. Plus Ive actually known people to obtain illegal state IDs fairly easily immigrant or no. Passports can be a bit harder because of smuggling though and its not like voting takes place at town hall or at INS headquarters. Dont be so nieve as to think that illegals are terrified of getting caught. I do know that the migrant workers are super cautious but heck my best friends dad lived, worked, and married here for twenty years under a dead mans name voting and all. (hes legal now as of five years ago. Plus registering is not the same as actually going out to vote.
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155. David_Cunard
Yes you Can David, oversight and management of the volunteers is thier responsibility. They have no other point of existance.
Someone above wrote that the Americans weren't stupid,.. I dis agree. The general populace doesn't even know thier Senators in the State senate, never mind the Federal Senate. Listen to Sean Hannity's 'Man in the Street' on Fridays and be amazed.
Community college students with out a clue. No idea who Karl Rove is, Cheny, thats the guy who shot somebody,... huh?? Not the VP, but 'that guy'. No, the school system with all the money that has been thrown at it over the last two decades was for the most part wasted.
They say they write the Newspapers for the eight grade level, and most graduates in city schools can't even read, heck the drop outs and graduates are in the same boat.
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No jack, that was good, 163 describes ACORN to a tree. Ha ha ha
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#154, YouTeeDee..., here is some proof of what
you are talking about:
From a Democrat.
An 8th grade final exam.
From the right wing.
The video you mentioned.
and some more proof
and, last, but not least, some Brits who are
as smart as we are.
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it made me giggle though forge
ref#163
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153, cyril.
In principle, I agree but I do think there are strong advantages to upping the ante and doing advertising spends in Georgia, Louisiana and West Virginia, and that is because it keeps the chatter going: what is then talked about is not Pennsylvania or Wisconsin, but how many states the GOP might lose. Hence, it helps to reinforce the efforts in North Carolina, Missouri and Indiana. He can ask Clinton to campaign in the 'extra swing states' while, as you say, he can focus himself on Ohio, Florida and Virginia, and get Biden to campaign in Ohio, Indiana, W Virginia and Missouri. If I was him, I would also do a small advertising spend in Kentucky: not because he will win it, but because Mitch McConnell is at risk of losing his Senate seat and that would be another big story. Now is the moment to demonstrate just what that extra financial muscle means. Think of it as a down payment on 2012.
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#168
"Most Americans have no interest in what occurs overseas, and in world history and geography"
"...but your mistaken if you assume that a significant segment of our popualtion is as ignorant as you suggest"
The rumour is that you used to be schizophrenic but that you are both much better now.
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132. At 5:26pm on 09 Oct 2008, SamTyler1969
Fill the form out and have the ACORN rep check the box that says your who you say you are and that is all.
Acorn in turning thousand out registar form in daily. In Indianapolis, they have turned in thirty three thousand more cards then there are people living there. Yes 33 thousand, not a number like close to known population. That is fraud, and when the cards are "all" for democrats, where is the intelligent democrats uprising for honesty.
Same place as Islams silence on violence.
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#169, Sam, throw in some mud and I'll tune in.
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# 169
Dream on, Sam (badboy Sam)
You wouldn't really wish that on the beautiful Michelle, would you ?
You would ?
Back on the naughty stair for you, my boy.
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169 Sam
Mud? or Canvas?
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#154 when these guys do the shows and appear to interview random folks they actually only show the ones that will make the show most interesting. It very much likely that the majority of people knew that the map was a fake, but that majority wouldnt make it on the show becuase obviously that wouldnt be very interesting.
just a speculation here.
Unless I saw that survey being done live im not going to believe its accurate.
and maybe do this survey on a university campus or with high school seniors, or in a populated business center.
Most people in the world knows nothing about the world outside of their direct environment. thats not unusual.
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#97. bluepaddy13: "we all Like Palin, so you need to re-think and stop trying to stereotype people."
Even that speaks volumes. The question though, is "why?" What exactly is her (not McCain's) appeal?
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post $175 is ABSOLUTELY hilarious :)
"Award Shows
An inexpensive way for the Networks to attract top actors and actresses
into appearing in a TV show for free by offering them glory, gift bags, and cheap little statues.
"
"Candy wrappers
containing the words: "Fat Free"
"
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#175
Guns,
Loved the Clarkson clip.
Top Sam
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as for national security who knows what happened to those color coded terror allerts from homeland security, they disapeared after Bush won in 2004. I suppose there was no need for those alerts anymore since he had secured 4 more years. makes u wonder?
it was actually scrapped in december of 2004 hmmmmm. :).
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Mark,
and you, Guns
In disgrace - with Sam
And who on earth brought Clarkson into all this ?
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"The wierd thing is Bush was as much a Texan as his brother was a Floridian."
Prescott Bush must be turning over in his grave...
Brilliant ideas aplenty here today. I'm also on board for mud wrestling real rather than figurative determining the president. Time for the process to pay its keep... It would be the pay per view of all time.
Also, I try to remember the best things ever said on the local (Pittsburgh, PA) news.
3. His future is really ahead of him.
2. We'll be having some unseasonable weather for this time of year.
1. We understand the chances of getting hit by lightning are very small.
#1 still makes me want to roll around on the ground laughing it's so funny.
The implication they've got a direct line from God followed by a piece of news so breathtaking every six year old knows it already.
And always remember, however stupid the average American may be, half of us are dumber 'n 'at...
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I am quite shocked that no republican has taken obama to task on the misguided and ill informed comment he made during the 2nd presidential debate about the way George W Bush handled the immediate aftermath of the September 11th attacks..
I think someone should please remind Obama that while he was palling around with people that felt America deserved to be attacked, Bush was providing leadership to traumatised American’s and the worlds citizens that were struck down in that despicable and cowardly attack..
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Justin,
It seems like you have some vested interest in talking up the race as still a close affair. I agree, it is not a formality by any means. It is about getting the turn-out on election day-a thing that could be influenced by the weather or other act of God.
But most election predictors are going for a convincing Obama victory by 300 or more electoral votes. Remember it is 270 to win or 269 in Obama's case. You mention Ohio a a 4 point lead in one poll, but the average lead in Ohio is 5.5points. This could be competitive if McCain wasn't down in Nevada, Florida, Colorado, Missouri, Virginia and Iowa. A dead-heat in Indiana and North Carolina is unbelievably bad for McCain. McCain has to win all these! A McCain strategy of going for Florida and Ohio only could make those winnable, but just losing Nevada produces 269-269 tie, plus Colorado is averaging 6% win to Obama. So I don't see where McCain can keep it close.
I just think McCain's campaign got it wrong with the whole 'maverick' trick. They should have played the 'safe pair of hands' approach to counter Obama's 'change'. Palin has damaged the ticket. I can't help but think if McCain had chosen Mitt Romney he would be competitive in Michigan, leading in Nevada and close in New Hampshire, Florida and Ohio.
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It's not like elections have been working out so well for us lately--especially the ones where we elect the guy who gets fewer votes.
But I think we need to combine the two great ideas suggested today. Make the UK the 51st state, and have the welcome to the good ol' ... celebration be the mud wrestling match to determine our next president. Good times.
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175. At 6:44pm on 09 Oct 2008, gunsandreligion
You have surpassed Ed as my Youtube Hero!
I am smart enough to know I'd fail that eight grade test miserably.
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I have thought that Palins plans for running in 2012 would have been obliterated after the CBS interviews, but hey Bush got elected twice.
Anyway my wife sent this to me, its a song about sara palin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DIc8jdra0o
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I am an American, and having read much of what has been posted, just proves to me how foolish our country is seen throughout the rest of the world. While this is not unexpected when we do have the Neo Con strong hold, and their new poster child Palin tarnishing what little respect we might have had within the international community.
I can't stand the consevatives in this country, I am not sure how different they are out side the US, but at here at home they are a mess. Pandering to the religious fanatics, while at the same time promoting such a forceful climate of individualism. Everythings is so centered around government assistance being the wrong answer no matter what the case.
I believe this we are headed for enormous back lash from this absolute trust in the market. The economic crisis we are in now, will only be the tip of the iceburg if the Palin McCain ticket wins. Yeah we are refering to it in reverse over in Colorado too :)
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University of Texas at Dallas?
YouTeeDeE ,... kool
Price is Right, the flip or flop game! hmmmm seems like either way it flops.
Who knows, the way the economy is going the fire sale of the United States may include disbanding congress temporarily while Bush is in office, and we'll have to suspend this pesky election,..
all hail the burning bush!!
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campaign gets uglier by the minute? calling Obama the antich.rist?
so much for McCain's integrity.
this is on its way to being one of the dirtiest elections in history, what a mess.
and to think the two candidates started with a message of hope.
http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1830590,00.html
definately not country first
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# 190 - icey
Do you think that by telling people to go shopping George W. Bush was "dealing with traumatised Americans"
I thought that several bloggers on Gavin Hewitt's site had dealt with you when you tried your multiple blogging there earlier.
Your post is illogical crap.
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194. At 7:29pm on 09 Oct 2008, thesnowman21
Bad song, rude, swear words, oh my virgin ears........ Just like them self proclaimed movie stars when Bush got elected, not to leave and go to Canada if she wins as promised......
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155. At 5:59pm on 09 Oct 2008, David_Cunard wrote:
#121. bluepaddy13: "What ACORN is trying to do is FRAUD . . . they register people multiple times who use only a Social Security card as ID and one woman had FOUR of them, that means she can vote four times in four different locations."
You cannot blame the organisation for the actions of individual workers. More to the point would be to compare the potential of that one person voting four times with hacking into electronic (computer) voting equipment, which might alter the resulting votes cast by thousands or even tens of thousands.
YOU CAN blame an organisation who's whole premise THE WHOLE agenda for ACORN is to use any means to subvert the voting process to get their man elected, SO yes you can blame the whole organisation its rotten to the core
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To hear anyone "screeching on" about Ronald Ray-gun is "painful" to the innumerable victims of his predatory policies, domestic and foreign. Bonzo, in fact, didn't do much reading, whether or not he remembered which few papers he might have skimmed. He had very poor vision and wore contact lenses for appearance purposes. But on those rare occassions when he actually did read something, he had to wear thick reading glasses - OVER the contacts! Palin actually has as much intellectual gravitas as Bonzo had. They're both puppets of the ruling elites and don't need to do much reading outside of the prepared scripts. The same applies to the canned answers in the mock debates. It hardly matters who is crowned in November, those who pull the strings behind the scenes will continue to do so, with a Palin marionette or an Obama marionette. Obama, incidentally, expressed great admiration for Bonzo in an interview last winter in Nevada, rating him over Clinton and Milhaus and asserting, " he just tapped into what people were already feeling, which was we want clarity we want optimism, we want a return to that sense of dynamism and entrepreneurship that had been missing." Obama Copacabana is as much the heir to the lethal legacy of Ray-gun as paltry Palin.
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Gentlemen,
I bring up a perfectly fair and reasonable proposal for electoral reform and you all make it something sordid and get me sent back to the naughty stair.
But since the question was asked by a serious academic, I feel obliged to answer.
I would have to say that purely on the basis of being fiscally conservative and wanting to maximize the revenue potential, we would, of those two alternatives, have to go with mud. If we staged it at the Garden we could probably sell seats for $150 to $1,000 and raise a few million more. I think I'd be willing to pay top dollar.
Snark snark
Finbarr Sam
PS I think I'll be up here for a while.
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Doug
"I am smart enough to know I'd fail that eight grade test miserably."
I apologize for thinking of you as being a smart man, brainwashed by smart. ...
do you know what smart means? you might want to ask an 8th grader...
God save the world when people like you vote to decide the fates of many...
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Any Christians in the house?
watch this
Watch
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Any patriots in the house watch this:
Watch
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184. At 7:00pm on 09 Oct 2008, David_Cunard wrote:
#97. bluepaddy13: "we all Like Palin, so you need to re-think and stop trying to stereotype people."
Even that speaks volumes. The question though, is "why?" What exactly is her (not McCain's) appeal?.......................
I like McCain as well, but if you are asking why the appeal with Palin, she is not a socialist who hangs out with domestic terrorists is that enough for starters for you ?
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#190
Ice,
As I recall far from providing leadership W went and hid in a hole somewhere with his 'My pet goat look', appeared on our TV for about 5 minutes after the drugs kicked in looking confused, read a bit of the bible (Psalm 23?) and disappeared again for several days. Meanwhile President Giuliani was leading the nation.
Oh yes, then he madeup some stories about being in control and released a photograph of him holding a telephone on AF1 as evidence.
That's some form of leadership right there.
Historian Sam
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moderate_observer (#197), my observation is that it is largely the McCain campaign that is dirty, not the campaign generally. And the election itself will be clean, despite the "election fraud" red herring.
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Let's not overlook the fact that Sarah's husband, the so-called "First Dude" (how classy), was a member of the extremist Alaska Independence Party ... a group which advocates Alaska's secession from the Union. Their leader is a ranting, effusively anti-American nut case who makes Reverend Wright look like chump change. Sarah ... the same Sarah who was prayed over by the witch eradicator from Africa ... also spoke at the Alaska Independence Party's conference as recently as the Spring of this year.
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As an American the thought of Sarah Palin being one heartbeat (a very old not so healthy heartbeat at that) away from the presidency scares me to death. I find McCains choice to be irresponsible and selfish, I fee l he will say and do anything to become president because it is literally his last chance. She does not have the intellect, temperment or knowledge to run our nation effeciently. McCain will offer us four more years of the Bush administration if he lives that long due to his age and health. I wish more Americans would stop and think about their choice, it takes more than claiming to be a Christian to be a good strong leader. Obama talks mainly about the issues, McCain just babbles meaness.
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AxisofOval
(on Britain, the 51st State)
I hadn't thought of that. The emphasis a few days ago was rather the other way round, but if, as you say, "Britain's population is big enough that this would almost certainly have changed the result of the last two elections" I can see the merits.
I'm not sure we'd like a long-term arrangement, though. Do you have the facility for temporary membership, say for a week starting October 26th, so we can see how it works out?
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Justin,
The party of ideas? Which ideas would these be?
Oh, I beg your pardon. You didn't say they weren't BAD ideas.
It's been obvious from reading your posts over the last year or so that you are pretty conservative. That's your right, of course. However, I think you may find that your thoughts aren't echoed by the majority of the American voters this time.
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166 doug . Yep.
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"[During 911] Bush was providing leadership to traumatised American?s and the worlds citizens that were struck down in that despicable and cowardly attack.."
Um, no, not unless you have a really loose definition of "leadership". It really seems as if facts do not interest Bush and many of his supporters, and that this explains a lot about where the country is right now.
Below taken from http://www.historycommons.org/essay.jsp?article=essayaninterestingday
A journalist who said Bush was “flying around the country like a scared child, seeking refuge in his mother’s bed after having a nightmare” and another who said Bush “skedaddled” were fired.
9:03 am, 15 minutes after the attack, Bush sat down with a classroom of 2nd graders.
There are at least four reports that Bush was told of the first crash before he arrived at the school.
My opinion: Perhaps more to the point, he didn't do what he should have done, which is land in the area that was victimized and make the appropriate noises. It's a mistake he repeated after Katrina, and one good leaders don't make.
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has anyone heard of that big idiot...JOHNAAA lately?
Glad that mad woman AndreainNY has decided to stay her stupid mind away from this forum.
what a relief....
the rest of the silly people can stay...just for shitzz and giggles
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http://www.boingboing.net/2008/10/08/note-to-mccain-overh.html
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/10/08/mccains-planetariophobia/
As if scientists weren't having enough problems due to federal budget freezes, now they're facing flak from Republican presidential candidate John McCain because of a $3 million planetarium projector. Which was never funded.
McCain has repeatedly taken his presidential rival (and Senate colleague) Barack Obama to task for seeking the $3 million earmark for Chicago's Adler Planetarium. The 40-year-old projector currently being used by the world-class planetarium is failing, and it's so obsolete that spare parts aren't available anymore. Obama and other members of the Illinois congressional delegation sought federal funds for a replacement.
That request fell by the wayside, and the funds never came through. But McCain is still trying to beat Obama over the head with the non-existent earmark, complaining about the "overhead projector" during Tuesday night's debate.
http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/10/08/1518907.aspx
--------------
So a little while back, John McCain made an ill-advised crack about planetaria (that’s the plural of planetarium), calling them "foolishness". It was ill advised because it raised the hackles of lots of science-loving folks, including those who want to — gasp, horror! — educate kids about astronomy and science.
At the time I suspected it was just a wedge in which to attack Barack Obama, but his use of the word foolishness really caught my attention. I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt, but does he really dislike such things?
Well, last night removed any doubt, when McCain — twice — used Obama’s requested earmark of three million dollars for Adler planetarium as a bludgeon, trying to pin Obama as another pork-barrel politician. He disdainfully said the money was for an "overhead projector". Those are his exact words. Here’s what he said:
While we were working to eliminate these pork barrel earmarks he [Senator Obama, or "that one"] voted for nearly $1 billion in pork barrel earmark projects. Including $3 million for an overhead projector at a planetarium in Chicago, Illinois. My friends, do we need to spend that kind of money?
Well, shock of shocks — it turns out McCain’s characterization of this was all wrong. In fact, I would call it a lie. He knows it wasn’t for an overhead projector, a piece of classroom equipment that costs a couple of hundred dollars. That money was for Adler’s Zeiss Mark VI star projector: a venerable piece of precision fabricated equipment that projects the stars, constellations, and other objects inside the planetarium dome. Adler’s Zeiss is 40 years old, and desperately needs replacing. These machines are pricey, and replacing them difficult.
# Mig Says:
October 8th, 2008 at 5:00 pm
McCain is right — science and education are stupid! Science claims that heavier-than-air objects can be made to fly. No one is more aware than Maverick how dangerously ridiculous that is. Sure, they can be made to work, but when those infernal flying contraptions chose to fall out of the sky 1) the ground can hurt you and, 2) they can put you right into the waiting arms of people from “nations that don’t like us too much”.
Sorry kiddies, Science just isn’t worth the risk. Go watch TV.
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/10/08/mccains-planetariophobia/
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Like many American POWs, McCain broke down under torture and offered a "confession" to his North Vietnamese captors. Dramesi, in contrast, attempted two daring escapes. For the second he was brutalized for a month with daily torture sessions that nearly killed him. His partner in the escape, Lt. Col. Ed Atterberry, didn't survive the mistreatment. But Dramesi never said a disloyal word, and for his heroism was awarded two Air Force Crosses, one of the service's highest distinctions. McCain would later hail him as "one of the toughest guys I've ever met."
-----------
"McCain says his life changed while he was in Vietnam, and he is now a different man," Dramesi says today. "But he's still the undisciplined, spoiled brat that he was when he went in."
---------------------
In its broad strokes, McCain's life story is oddly similar to that of the current occupant of the White House. John Sidney McCain III and George Walker Bush both represent the third generation of American dynasties. Both were born into positions of privilege against which they rebelled into mediocrity. Both developed an uncanny social intelligence that allowed them to skate by with a minimum of mental exertion. Both struggled with booze and loutish behavior. At each step, with the aid of their fathers' powerful friends, both failed upward. And both shed their skins as Episcopalian members of the Washington elite to build political careers as self-styled, ranch-inhabiting Westerners who pray to Jesus in their wives' evangelical churches.
In one vital respect, however, the comparison is deeply unfair to the current president: George W. Bush was a much better pilot.
---------------------------
"He was a huge screw-off," recalls Butler. "He was always on probation. The only reason he graduated was because of his father and his grandfather — they couldn't exactly get rid of him."
------------------------------
McCain's friends were blindsided by the divorce. The Reagans — with whom the couple had frequently dined and even accompanied on New Year's holidays — never forgave him. By the time McCain became a self-proclaimed "foot soldier in the Reagan Revolution" two years later, he and the Gipper had little more than ideology to bind them. Nancy took Carol under her wing, giving her a job in the White House and treating McCain with a frosty formality that was evident even on the day last March when she endorsed his candidacy. "Ronnie and I always waited until everything was decided and then we endorsed," she said. "Well, obviously, this is the nominee of the party."
--------------------------------
Charlie Keating, the banker and anti-pornography crusader, would ultimately be convicted on 73 counts of fraud and racketeering for his role in the savings-and-loan scandal of the 1980s.
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/23316912/makebelieve_maverick/print
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11:
"Sometimes on this blog people indulge in flights of fancy or humorous jabs. I notice that the jokesters are always from the Obama side. McCain people do not joke."
You are so right - sorry correct .. Only those whose minds are able to think for themselves can see the funny side of things - others are in an intellectual strait jacket following the right ( correct?) line.
I do not remember many jokesters from the Third Reich , 1930's Rome or Uncle Joe's tenure in office..
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where's ed these days?
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194. (thesnowman21)
Thanks for that. I like it. (Could get into the Top Twenty here, I reckon, easily.)
But what are the Canadians going to do about their impending over-population programme?
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The two were separated before they came to blows.
-----------------
At least three of McCain's GOP colleagues have gone on record to say that they consider him temperamentally unsuited to be commander in chief. Smith, the former senator from New Hampshire, has said that McCain's "temper would place this country at risk in international affairs, and the world perhaps in danger. In my mind, it should disqualify him." Sen. Domenici of New Mexico has said he doesn't "want this guy anywhere near a trigger." And Sen. Thad Cochran of Mississippi weighed in that "the thought of his being president sends a cold chill down my spine. He is erratic. He is hotheaded."
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/23316912/makebelieve_maverick/print
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# 207 - and with one bound Sam was free.
(Even if he isn't quite the nice boy that some of us thought. You wait till Marbles rejoins us - she'll be havin' yer for all this talk. And for those of us who don't share your particular sexual predilictions, the quid pro quo of John McCain sploshing around in the mud doesn't cut the mustard, no sir)
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ref#206
your mom
seriously though yeah so there was a picture of him when he happened to meet a person involved in domestic terrorism. Hes a politician for Pete's sake and we did ALOT of big business with the arabs pre 9-11. They gave tons of funding and invested in US businesses. No matter what job you're in you meet shady people if not downright bad people and are forced to associate with them. Ive known militant muslims that are perfectly pleasant to hang out with. Am I going to invite them to my wedding? No. but business is business until they do something beyond your moral code or harms you and your people.
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I see that Pollster.com has moved West Virginia from "leaning to McCain" to "Toss up".
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ref#209
Palin's husband is indeed irksome. I was tooking around today and learned that he pushed to get his brother in law fired from his job as a policeman citing harrasment which I didnt see any reports substantiating. If he had been a bad police officer you think someone would have made a report by then. Of course Im not an Alaskan native and I don't know if they overlook these things for the police as is sometimes the case but it seems hinky to only go after your in-law for abusive behavior after the split. You think a trip to a courtroom and a restraining order would have been the first step instead of using your wife's position to get the man fired.
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Sam
CNN are reporting that "47 percent concerned McCain wouldn't finish first term".
Under your electoral reform movement, the mud wrestling match should probably be Michelle/Sarah.
Can I join you on the naughty stair, or is it already too crowded?
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Jabber, you may find that you only get the obvious jokes and miss the subtle ones. You would not be alone.
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So now Obama is 'too risky'? As opposed to a 72 year old man of uncertain health and woman who revels in her own ignorance? Oh please!
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My fellow residents of Guantanamo, er, my fellow prisoners, er . . .
I couldn't believe that, but it's on the agencies as well.
I think I'm reasonably imaginative, but I can't think of a way of getting out of that one. Not even for a politician.
Oh, of course, it's the "filter of the media" wot must 'ave dun it! The word was "poisoners", er, no, maybe not, try again, it was . .oh I know! He was addressing French fishmongers, it was "poissoniers"?
(To Sen. McCain's minders: my helpful suggestion is copyright; you may apply to me via the BBC for the rather steep terms under which I will sell you the rights to use it.)
'Flipped' is the word, isn't it?
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#205, goleooo, this is very interesting. Do you
have any more like it?
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#200. bluepaddy13 "YOU CAN blame an organisation who's whole premise THE WHOLE agenda for ACORN is to use any means to subvert the voting process to get their man elected, SO yes you can blame the whole organisation its rotten to the core"
Ah! All is revealed! The spelling organisation shows you to be British since Americans spell it with a 'z'. The persistent rant against ACORN merely repeats the former JohnAAA's opinions. I dare you to say that you are not one and the same person who lives 400 yards from the Thames as the former screen name had claimed. It seems to me that you're the fraud.
#206: "Palin . . . is not a socialist who hangs out with domestic terrorists is that enough for starters for you ?"
The gap between "you" and the question mark simply corroborates the above, something which "JohnAAA" always did. However, I don't see any socialists running for president (you've had those in the UK) and as far as I am aware, no candidate is hanging out with domestic terrorists. Since you do not live in the USA and are reliant only on the internet, how can you possibly know these things?
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this American intelligence debate .
even I would say there are plenty of smart Americans, and even some not evil like GW.
I have found out today that there is a far more serious debate going on.
the debate about which day in genesis the turtles were created.
Trying to link it but does not even reach the mods and disappears .
Answering genesis sea turtles(heck anywhere on that site is funny)
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#225
Nat,
Come on up. It's quite comfy with Guns here. Have not seen Mark, methinks he is down the pub.
Then I can hide behind you when Marby starts smacking me about.
Social Sam
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To his credit, David Brooks is almost right about Sarah Palin. She is a cancer but not just to the GOP, to the entire future of American politics. Let's hope her brand of nativist, racist "know-nothingism," which has a long and sordid history in American politics, doesn't catch on, because if it does we're all in trouble. And there's plenty of dry tinder out there for her fire-breathing approach (just listen to the people at her rallies: "terrorist...kill him"). If authoritarian politics takes hold in this country, and it could happen here, it will come wrapped up in ridiculous small-town nostalgia and the chirpy smile of the high-school cheerleader who wonders why other "folks" can't be "normal" just like everybody else in town...
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#215
Whether I agree with John and Andrea or not, personal abuse is uncalled for. You should be ashamed, sir. And an apology is merited.
Disciplinarian Sam
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223:
"No. but business is business until they do something beyond your moral code or harms you and your people."
Does that include selling or giving them weapons until they use them to harm you or your people?
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hey isn't sticking your dosh in the bank and getting a low interest but being safe ,ok?
seems that by dropping interest rates to get people to spend is another hit to those frugal savers.
They get less so the traders can get some more.
"We will not pay interest anymore .that will force you to GAMBLE on the stock market"
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215
I think even his favourite right wing RCP polls have silenced him ...
219
Jack, we need to send out a search party ... maybe he's been in premature celebratory mode ;)
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Sarah Palin, known associate of the Alaska Independence Group (confirmed haters of America and the American flag) said the following on the Laura Ingraham Radio Show :
"What does it say that Barack Obama says he would sit down onconditionally with Ahmadinejad, Kim Jong II and others, unconditionally, and I guess sort of hand over some of the prestige of the US presidency, I think validate some of the decisions that these dictators have taken".
She gets away with saying this on the same day that General Petraeus himself said the west are going to have to open lines of contact with the Taliban
No one seems to be calling her out for her BS.
The airwaves just now seem to be full of her, McCain and now McCain's missus still banging on about Ayers and for as long as they get away with it, it just opens the floodgates for her to come out with the sort of bilge reported above.
How on earth can it be that she is allowed to get away with it ?
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Does that include selling or giving them weapons until they use them to harm you or your people?
-Brit
Did I say that I took kindly to tha no I am fully aware that the USA has supplied arms to some of the most ..nefarious for lack of a better word in my mind people but as of yet Im not aware that Obama delt arms to anyone.
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> McCain to win is currently widely available at 4/1! Crazy odds in any two horse race, especially this one. A ?100 bet on McCain will get you ?400 profit, while Obama nets you a measly ?36. This is madness, surely?
Those are respectable odds, for Obama. FiveThirtyEight currently rates him as a 9:1 on favourite. I'd take that 38 pound profit in a flash
[heads towards nearest Turf Accountant, with a thicj wad of cash in hand]
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227, seanspa:
Hush. Don't give the game away. I enjoy all the Republican pro-Palin and McCain jokes here as well as the anti-Obama and Biden ones. Some of the former, especially, are very subtle.
("Mumbled aside." Me: "What do you mean, they aren't jokes?")
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#215. goleooo: "has anyone heard of that big idiot...JOHNAAA lately?"
See my post at #231. He's just reinvented himself - again.
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227 seanspa
Greetings ex-pat - look at these posts - some of them are very unsubtle and even to the point of being insulting - like mine,,
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# 234
AngloHawaiian
Beautifully said, sir, and so true - but she's still getting away with it without challenge from the mainstream media.
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233, Sam
I've posted a few times today ... but the pub beckons: the social decoration in Oxford this week is quite charming ;)
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David_Cunard (#231), your are making an assumption that bluepaddy13 is a good speller, which may or may not be the case. But suppose your hypothesis is true. What I don't understand is why some people who claim to be of the UK take such a fierce interest in choosing sides in our elections. I am interested in following UK elections now and then, which the BBC covers quite thoroughly, but I can't say I get worked up about them.
By the way, Canada votes next week. Nobody seems to be interested in that election.
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235
not sure that deserved an apology but would suggest that the people paying the way of those bloggers mentioned might have asked them to redirect their efforts to a better suited target audience.
maybe they are at the zoo?
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219 and 238
The space ship came back and took him away.
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[See 229]
To Sen. McCain's minders. If it helps to get the correction across, I'll give you this extra line you can use in the press release for free:
"Senator McCain is universally recognised throughout the USA as a veteran who knows his plaice and has chosen the right person to fillet."
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#231, David_C, you're giving away your best tricks
of textual analysis... I don't think that the NSA or
the CIA will hire you now.
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David Cunard,
you gave me real bad news. I was actually hoping the world is better by getting rid of one more idiot. but he is still around ....
shocker!
how original of JohnAAA eh...typical republican
they can change their looks but they are the same evil heartless people.
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The 2008 US elections could result in the highest voter turn over in decades, which would be good for US democracy. The US political climate appears to have changed dramatically in the past 10 months with the nomination of Obama as candidate by the Democratic Party, and the inclusion of Palin as Vice Presidential Candidate for the Republican Party. This has certainly put more spice on the US theatre of political landscape.
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#210 From British mouse to American mouse, couldn't agree more.
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This comment has been referred to the moderators. Explain.
238, Mark
"Jack, we need to send out a search party ... maybe he's been in premature celebratory mode"
And there are few things more embarrassing than premature poll celebration.
As a general comment, thanks, Mark, for your posts. They invariably make for interesting reading.
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David_Cunard (#231), I looked back to check your observation about the question mark style. You are absolutely correct! Brilliant deduction, Holmes!
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sam,
will all respect for you as a fellow blogger,
let me remind you... i am not running for president of USA.
You must demand that of McCain before you demand it of me. Personally I don't give a fart in the air about JohnAAA or that mad woman.
I wish they could coexist with dinosaurs as Palin suggests. I really am curious if those two characters would like it.
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To#67Vagueofgodalming
Your link was great!
So funny, I especially enjoyed the Star Trek reference. Palin equated with a Tribble was especially delightful! I need to keep my sense of humor and your contribution fed me for the day. Thanks!!!
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#247 Gary
For a lot of people in the UK, it all started when Tony Blair signed up with GWB for the war in Iraq - which was bitterly opposed by a lot of people. Hundreds and thousands marched against.
We feel conned by the whole WMD argument which turned out to be a false premise for thousands of people getting slaughtered.
Like you in the US, we hate seeing our troops still coming home in coffins and we hate that Halliburton et al are profiting from the whole thing.
And we think its all about oil - but that hasn't been much of a success has it ?
And many people are horrified by Bush as the leader of the free world and by our country being so tied in with yours.
And we think that Cheney as chief neocon is pulling all the strings - and we find the whole neocon philosophy very sinister indeed.
And now we're drained dry by the whole financial meltdown which we think was caused by Wall Street deregulation.
And we admire Obama's background and eloquence and courage - and if you don't want him over there, please can we have him over here ?
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32, Richard.
"My wife is American and I read a lot of what her (admittedly 'Christian Fundamentalist' Texans) family write on the Family website and Palin has certainly galvanised middle America. Even if it is a 'style over content' thing.
"So don't be surprised to see a late reversal in the Polls and an 11th hour and 59th minute swing to the Palin/McCain ticket."
Your perceptions are skewed because your wife is a Texan. Were she from Vermont, for instance, your opinion would be reversed. No one expects Texas, or Oklahoma, or Alabama, or Mississippi, or other intransigently Republican states to support Obama.
Yet we are seeing some surprises. Virginia has become steadily more blue and West Virginia and North Carolina are leaning that way. Another surprise: Georgia is now pink, not red.
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I am surprised to see people are bashing Sarah Palin. Accepted that she doesn't have any foreign policy expertise but so is Obama. In fact, Obama knows enough to be dangerous. Out of the 4 candidates, Palin is the only one who has got some executive experience. In a short period of 2 years (compared to 143 days of Obama) experience as Alaskan Governor, she has achieved and done what most of the people of dream of doing in their career in similar positions. No wonder she has 80% approval rating.
Regarding her screeching voice, I find Biden's rhetoric and lies that too for hours, much more annoying.
In last 3 debates, I didn't hear him say even once what he has done as an achievement.
He talks about his community service (organizer), I have yet to see a single person come forward to say that Obama's service helped him/her during community organization.
Ask people from Illinois about Obama's achievement / help for the state.
He says he will reduce taxes for 95% of the people. How can he do that when only 65% people pay taxes. And $250,000.00 tax bracket is actually $153,000.00 if you take top 5%.
Now it is a public news that ACORN which was hired by Obama for registering voters, have been found to done fraud (1 million votes approx.). Hillary sopporters are fuming over this revelation because Hillary could have won.
One thing I have learnt during these elections is that majority of the people have their own party preferences and they wouldn't change it.
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45, chillO.
I rather depends on who took the poll, and whom they polled, doesn't it?
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"I don't understand why some people who claim to be of the UK take such a fierce interest in choosing sides in our elections."
They're going to be the 51st state. Haven't you heard?
Actually, just to show I'm not anti-British, I say we flip a coin. Heads the UK becomes the 51st state, tails we admit that a country that could elect W. TWICE has proved it's not ready for independence (and the fact that we did it the first time despite him getting fewer votes is not a vote in our favor). So we rescind the revolution, no hard feelings, and move on.
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Can someone please please draw a cartoon strip under the name "Palintology".
Have her discussing the wonders of God's genius in fooling us with fossil records with like minded enlightened people.
First one could be Palin and Osama Bin Laden perched over a fossilized T-Rex. They can say "Nice Rock, isn't God Great" and then discuss the truth of Creationism and how good it would be to stop anyone thinking about that evil notion of evolution and how much fun book burning is. OBL could quip admiringly "I would marry you if you'd just take the lipstick off."
Faith is belief in the unknowable. Creationism is a controlling dogma based on anti-intellectualism. It is not faith. Unfortuntely it is stupidity. The extremities of Islam have exactly the same dogmas. Believe nothing beyond the Bible/Koran and attacking aquisition of knowledge.
The sad thing is, in what was once called christendom, science and knowledge has progressed rapidly in the last two centuries. Before that The Islamic world collected and built on knowledge while inventing modern science in the 600 years Europe was not doing very much other than burning books and fighting each other.
Their traditions have been open to understanding and development and yet the extremes of the faiths get all the press which are closed-minded and liable to give any sane individual the jitters.
Palin is a creationist. This either makes her stupid or an adherent to an anti-intellectual dogma, either of which makes her scary as hell. People writing here that she shows moral fibre because of her strong beliefs are likewise afflicted. You are either one or the other.
I write this as a science teacher (so you'll have to excuse the spelling)
How can anyone vote for a ticket with her on it?
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59, Parrisia.
"I still insist that Palin can pull it through for McCain. White folks will find it difficult to vote for an African-American and will eventually go for the white old-and-thus-experienced American war-hero and his crispy white girl-running-mate."
Don't sell us short. Racists that are rabble rousers (Palin & Co.) and get coverage. The sane are never noticed. I have more faith in America than you do.
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To#169Samtyler169
That would be fun!
However, it might not be much of a contest because I think That Michelle could break the brittle Cindy into four pieces with just a look.
How about having them both compete with the 'Divine Sarah' on "Are You Smarter Than A Fifth Grader?" That could also be on Pay Per View. I could muster up at least $100 to watch that myself. It could be more exciting than the debates!
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70, chill0.
"I hope, though, that exposing an at least mostly Arab country to democracy will give them a taste for it. Jordan is moving steadily in that direction and the Iraqis and Jordanians are close."
I think you have insufficiant background to make that statement. In the first place "democracy" is a propaganda word without a specific meaning. It does not even refer to America because we are a republic, not a democracy.
And as for forcing our so-called "democracy" to other nations, they are unlikely to see it as desirable. Their cultures are different from ours based on different philosophies.
We use this democracy business to belittle and batter down third-world countries. It is used to con the American people into supporting whatever our government decides to do. Americans usually have no knowledge of third-world countrties, unless they were born in one.
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#67, vague, the modes of transportation were the
best - especially the old Ford rusting away.
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JohnAAA disappeared as soon as I accused him of being a democrat plant, here to make the republicans look extreme. If he is now posting under diferent names, then the democrats on here do themseles no favours in exposing hm. Doh!
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Sam
We could also have Brigitte Bardot wrestling Palin.
Oh fantasy, fantasy!
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88, Pluto.
Yes, the debate showed a very erratic McCain. I think he is failing.
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93, lawchicago.
I think that after this election Palin is finished. For one thing her polls in Alaska her approval rating is down.
The current national polls are even more telling. Alaska shows a spread of 17.00 for McCain. In 2004 the spread for Bush was 25.55. I think that tells us something.
Hawaii shows a spread of 41 for Obama.
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136, David de Yong.
"132. Sam, if you need a passport to vote the first time, what the hell was Palin doing before last year?"
You don't need a passport to vote. Some states require photo ID, but not all. There is opposition to requiring photo ID.
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Please read 140, british-ish.
He is spot on. Bravo, british-ish.
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It's looking more and more to me that Palin is
actually a Machurian candidate for far right
secessionist groups. It's not just the video that
goleooo posted, but much more evidence is available.
One interesting thing is that someone keeps knocking
the video of Dexter Clark, vice-chairman of the AIP
off of youtube. Just as quickly, it is reposted.
I have to go out for a bit, but there is definitely a
story here. I encourage the BBC to go after it.
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215, galeooo.
We are missing a lot of people - JohnAAA, andreaNY, Magic (ubermensch), vivaelcid (vivaPalin), and marcusaureliusII (staphylococcus aureus). Maybe they are at a ranting contest, drinking plonk and memorizing what they will be saying for the next four weeks.
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234, anglohawaiian.
"If authoritarian politics takes hold in this country, and it could happen here, it will come wrapped up in ridiculous small-town nostalgia and the chirpy smile of the high-school cheerleader who wonders why other "folks" can't be "normal" just like everybody else in town..."
Take heart, anglohawaiian. McCarthyism never took hold, nor will Palinism. We are not as dumb as the media thinks we are.
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#267
Aqua,
I'm in. It's a game changer.
I agree, Michelle would wipe the floor with her. Come to think of it she could probably kick my ass too so I'd better be careful.
Respectful Sam
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246. At 9:56pm on 09 Oct 2008, MarkfromOxford wrote:
233, Sam
I've posted a few times today ... but the pub beckons: the social decoration in Oxford this week is quite charming ;)
Freshers' week?
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268 right on marbles
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It's true, Justin. The ticket has already been flipped. If the Republicans win, McCain will end up with a backseat. If they lose, there is a chance the party of Lincoln and Teddy Roosevelt will be strictly small town America in the Deep South and Plains states.
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To#279Samtyler1969
Do you think we could actually promote this exchange? There could be some REAL money in this.
I am REALLY IN!
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#283
All we need is a major news organization to give it credibility.
Justin, I beseech you. Think of the ratings!
Excited Sam
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Victory for the Democrats in this election will undoubtedly be a poisoned chalice. The elephant in the room - that both candidates studiously avoided in the second debate - is that whoever wins will be hamstrung by the crippling global financial crisis, and the federal government's unsustainable debt.
If Obama gets and in does the *right* thing - ie reduce the national debt - he may well be forced to raise taxes. And if he does, the Democrats will once again be unfairly labeled as the tax-and-spend party (btw - the only time the national debt 'clock' in NY didn't work properly was for a two year period in the Clinton administration, because the clock didn't have the software to run the number downwards).
Then the Republicans will claim the moral high ground, get back into office in 2012, and continue screwing up the economy.
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so what really went down in strongville?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAyK-enrF1g
I suppose the fundamentals of the economy are strong in this town.
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11 Allmymarbles wrote: Could it be that the Republicans were never really pleased to have McCain as their candidate and their hearts are not in the campaign, and that the opposite is true of the Democrats and Obama?
.................
That is absolutely true. The populist religious conservatives do not support McCain in their hearts. He is not one of them, no matter how hard he has tried to reach out to them. Palin on the other hand is exactly like them. Reagan had many faults but he merely used the religous right he did not embrace their values, Palin does. A republican party that continues to be lead by this vociferous minority will lose out in a changing USA and world scene.
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282 TucsonMike wrote:
It's true, Justin. The ticket has already been flipped. If the Republicans win, McCain will end up with a backseat. If they lose, there is a chance the party of Lincoln and Teddy Roosevelt will be strictly small town America in the Deep South and Plains states.
.................
Don't forget why that area is now the stronghold of the Republican party, when it was historically Democrat. It was because of the the Democrat's strong support for civil rights. It seems some people in the "heartland" still have not thrown off their old ways of thinking.
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It is amazing to read all those blind Americans who seems to not understand scale of this economic dissaster created by US Republicans, not just in US but in the world.
Obama said this economic crise is the worst since the "Great Depression". Wrong, this is the worst economic dissaster ever, it will be bigger than "Great Depression".
Also I don't think that Americans have the choice here, last choice what they have was to pick up Democrat nominee. They picked up Obama, not bad choice, but Clintons will be better. Maybe they are lucky becouase they will not need to clean White House after Republicans. So here is the news for US, from Europe. You have to elect Democrat, no mater what. I you elect Republicans, you are down at the bottom.
So formula is simple. Republicans in White House again, General Motors or any other US multinational company will not be able to do business around the world, becouase world just don't have confidence in US government, US stock market (Wall Street), US banks, so they will go deeper and deeper down. World allready blame US for this economic dissaster created buy Republican neocons.
Understand with some dirty tricks in US, many around the world losted huge amount of the money in US, so tell me, do you think that Suiss UBS who losted $20 billion will ever trust US anymore with Republicans in White House?
So here are the solutions. Elect democrats in White House, and they need to create the most controled economic system in the world, and perhaps for some years they will be able to gain 5% of the confidance in US from that before this dissaster.
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Most people on this board are moles for the democrats. They find it difficult to engage in any intelligent discourse, except to mud sling, point fingers and use foul language to denigrate the independent minded blogger. The only thing the democrats can do is to accuse Mcain of being George Bush and that a vote for him is a vote for Bush. BREAKING NEWS! George Bush aint on the ballot in November, so democrats, get a grip of yourself. Obama looks more like a rock star promoting sales of his latest song than a serious leader running for president. It was during the 2nd debate, when after it was all over he stayed behind to sign autographs and take pictures with his ‘fans’. To think that CNN was hoodwinked by that lame move of his really baffled me and lowered their rating in the eyes of viewers. Governance is serious business and not a popularity contest. I should know, because in my country we have ‘elected’ quite a few inept leaders basically on charm and slickiness but sadly no substance. I have also observed have sadly been hoodwinked to believe that Obama cares for the Middle class/working people because he happens to mouth that term ever so often in conversations no matter how inappropriate. He is only using it to get votes, and sadly it is not equivalent to having empathy for the middle class and working people
There is no substitute for experience and that maxim is more poignant during difficult times like this. the greatest injustice these generation of americans could do to the coming generations, is to elect a president basically on rethoric, charm and the over arching influence of the electronic media to spin half truths and concot bogus poll figures..
America is at a threshold and the choice is theirs to elect a competent, experienced, firm, steady and i admit boring leader to provide effective and sustainable leadership..or to appoint a smooth talking inexperienced novice on a personal journey of self discovery
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@icetayoa (290), it is not question here what Americans belive, and what Fox, CNN or what ever US media sell them this time Republicans story, world public don't belive 0,001% to Republicans, so if McCain go in White House, no mater what he will be or not be, world public will not belive him or to any other republican long time after US elections. So every Americans must ask yourself, will US be able to fix all economic issues without US positive image around the world, or not? I am afraid with Democrats it will be very hard to sell this, with Republicans that will be impossible. For example if you investor from for example Japan, so you losted huge amount of the money in US, becouase some manipulated in US banking sector, will you again invested in US? I will not, becouase this is not just question did some robbed someone outside of the US, it is also that US system is so bad, that investors don't have any confidance in US system. So do you think that new "Donald Rumsfeld" will be able to sell them story, so they will again invest in US? It will be very hard even for Bill Clinton and Al Gore.
If Obama is smart enough, he will drop this elections, and leave to Republicans that they clean White House, Wall Street, banking sector, real estate market, Iraq, huge trade deficit, huge external debt, bad US image in the world and etc. I am afraid if Obama win, he will not have a chance to fix all that in his periode, so he will pay huge price on elections 2012. With all those what is going on, he will be helpless in next term in White House. Anybody in White House will be helpless. Those stuffs are so huge, that Albert Einsteen will not fix them for 4 years and that he don't lose elections 2012.
Only chance for democrats to win 2012 elections if they win 2008 elections, is that Hillary Clinton be democratic nominee. With current economic situation, no chance that Obama will be elected 2012 if he is elected 2008.
Also I don't know is it McCain supported Bush 90% or 95% of the time, I know that McCain if he want or don't want will have the same kind of the people in his team, like Bush had. Let me clear here something, Bush like Bush is not so negative, but those who were around Bush, who gave him wrong advices, who worked with him in White House, and in all that system were totaly wrong, so to say Bush was not good, lets change him and we will have much better situation is wrong, it will not happiend. You must change all those people, from top to the bottom, so perhaps McCain is able to be better than Bush, but huge mayority of the people which worked for Bush, will also work for McCain, so you will just change top of the "building", but still "base of the building" is wrong and "ill", so if you want to have better situation, you have to change everything, even party, and with totaly new people in White House, and around, you have small chance that things will be better, but no guarantie, becouase Republicans in last two terms in White House, almost totaly destroyed US.
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Obama's cousin is Rails Odinga and Obama
went to Kenya to publicly endorse him.
Look it up, indeed very worrisome and Obama's latest and most scary skelton.
Raila Odinga and Obama youtube it
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"292. At 3:45pm on 10 Oct 2008, victoriausa wrote:
Obama's cousin is Rails Odinga and Obama
went to Kenya to publicly endorse him.
Look it up, indeed very worrisome and Obama's latest and most scary skelton.
Raila Odinga and Obama youtube it"
You will find a lot of Obama's relatives are black, as are a lot of Kenyans. Indeed many Africans.
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The piece below copied from TIME online made interesting read.
enjoy
It's not easy to make the infamous Willie Horton ad from the 1988 presidential campaign seem benign. But suggesting that Barack Obama is the Antichrist might just do it.
That's just what some outraged Christian supporters of the Democratic nominee are claiming John McCain's campaign did in an ad called "The One" that was recently released online. The Republican nominee's advisers brush off the charges, arguing that the spot was meant to be a "creative" and "humorous" way of poking fun at Obama's popularity by painting him as a self-appointed messiah. But even this innocuous interpretation of the ad — which includes images of Charlton Heston as Moses and culled clips that make Obama sound truly egomaniacal — taps into a conversation that has been gaining urgency on Christian radio and political blogs and in widely circulated e-mail messages that accuse Obama of being the Antichrist.
The ad was the creation of Fred Davis, one of McCain's top media gurus as well as a close friend of former Christian Coalition head Ralph Reed and the nephew of conservative Oklahoma Senator James Inhofe. It first caught the attention of Democrats familiar with the Left Behind series, a fictionalized account of the end-time that debuted in the 1990s and has sold nearly 70 million books worldwide. "The language in there is so similar to the language in the Left Behind books," says Tony Campolo, a leading progressive Evangelical speaker and author.
As the ad begins, the words "It should be known that in 2008 the world shall be blessed. They will call him The One" flash across the screen. The Antichrist of the Left Behind books is a charismatic young political leader named Nicolae Carpathia who founds the One World religion (slogan: "We Are God") and promises to heal the world after a time of deep division. One of several Obama clips in the ad features the Senator saying, "A nation healed, a world repaired. We are the ones that we've been waiting for."
The visual images in the ad, which Davis says has been viewed even more than McCain's "Celeb" ad linking Obama to the likes of Paris Hilton and Britney Spears, also seem to evoke the cover art of several Left Behind books. But they're not the cartoonish images of clouds parting and shining light upon Obama that might be expected in an ad spoofing him as a messiah. Instead, the screen displays a sinister orange light surrounded by darkness and later the faint image of a staircase leading up to heaven.
Perhaps the most puzzling scene in the ad is an altered segment from The 10 Commandments that appears near the end. A Moses-playing Charlton Heston parts the animated waters of the Red Sea, out of which rises the quasi-presidential seal the Obama campaign used for a brief time earlier this summer before being mocked into retiring it. The seal, which features an eagle with wings spread, is not recognizable like the campaign's red-white-and-blue "O" logo. That confused Democratic consultant Eric Sapp until he went to his Bible and remembered that in the apocalyptic Book of Daniel, the Antichrist is described as rising from the sea as a creature with wings like an eagle.
Sapp knows that the phrasing and images could just be dismissed as a peculiar coincidence. After all, it was Oprah Winfrey who told an Iowa crowd that Obama was "the one!" But, he insists, "the frequency of these images and references don't make any sense unless you're trying to send the message that Obama could be the Antichrist." Mara Vanderslice, another Democratic consultant, who handled religious outreach for the 2004 Kerry campaign, agrees. "If they wanted to be funny, if they really wanted to play up the idea that Obama thinks he's the Second Coming, there were better ways to do it," she says. "Why use these awkward lines like, 'And the world will receive his blessings'?"
Two months ago, Vanderslice founded a Democratic PAC called the Matthew 25 Network and soon noticed that the negative e-mails she received from conservative Christians fell into two general topical categories: abortion, and the assertion that Obama is the Antichrist. The cataloging of similarities Obama shares with the Antichrist began nearly two years ago. But it picked up steam in February 2008 after he racked up a string of impressive primary victories. A Google search for "Obama" and "Antichrist" turns up more than 700,000 hits, including at least one blog dedicated solely to the topic. A more obscure search for "Obama" and "Nicolae Carpathia" yields a surprising 200,000 references.
It's not hard to see how some Obama haters might be tempted to make the comparison. In the Left Behind books, Carpathia is a junior Senator who speaks several languages, is beloved by people around the world and fawned over by a press corps that cannot see his evil nature, and rises to absurd prominence after delivering just one major speech. Hmmh. But serious Antichrist theorists don't stop there. Everything from Obama's left-handedness to his positive rhetoric to his appearance on the cover of this magazine has been cited as evidence of his true identity. One chain e-mail claims that the Antichrist was prophesied to be "A man in his 40s of MUSLIM descent," which would indeed sound ominous if not for the fact that the Book of Revelation was written at least 400 years before the birth of Islam.
The speculation reached a fever pitch after Obama's European trip and the Berlin speech in which he called for global unity. Conservative Christian author Hal Lindsey declared in an essay on WorldNetDaily, "Obama is correct in saying that the world is ready for someone like him — a messiah-like figure, charismatic and glib ... The Bible calls that leader the Antichrist. And it seems apparent that the world is now ready to make his acquaintance." The conservative website RedState.com now sells mugs and T shirts that sport a large "O" with horns and the words "The Anti-Christ" underneath.
Even if a fraction of the Internet-using public engages in outrageous Antichrist speculation, feeding those extreme beliefs wouldn't seem to be an obvious political strategy. But McCain advisers are aware that one of the goals of Democratic outreach to Evangelicals has been to simply neutralize their opposition. "You just have to take the edge off," says Michigan Democratic Party chair Mark Brewer, explaining why he spent much of a 2006 meeting with conservative pastors around his state. "Now that they've met me, they can see I don't have two horns and a tail."
A new TIME poll finds that the most conservative Evangelicals are the least enthusiastic about McCain's candidacy. Convincing them that Obama does have two horns and a tail might be the best way of getting them to vote. That's what worries Campolo, who also sits on the Democratic Party's platform committee. "Those books have created a subliminal language, and I think judgments will be made unconsciously about Barack Obama," he says. "It scares the daylights out of me."
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Was going to comment on the last few mega-posts but sleep got the better of me. Going back they don't seem worth a comment anyway. Sure they are being multiple posted elsewhere too.
Seems a little sad this blog is going this way - if you can't explain something in 100 words why use 1000?
And if 1000 is not enough please go away.
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"And yet the Palin world-view - essentially ignorant, unable to name a single paper read - is not the view that a nation facing an economic catastrophe, complex and international and baffling to most minds, is likely to choose."
If Palin's worldview is ignorant, solely because she was nervous in an interview and didn't provide examples of newspapers she reads, what should be think of Joe Biden after several bloopers he produced, not during an interview, but during the VP debate?
He opened up the debate with some populist banter talking about Katie's Restaurant and Home Depot on Union Street in Wilmington, Delaware. Strangely enough the restaurant closed 20 years ago and there is no Home Depot on Union Street. Hmm, it sounded so good though . .
Biden’s claim that US "..kicked Hezbollah out of Lebanon." and moved “NATO forces in there. Fill the vacuum, because if you don't, Hezbollah will control it." Was also puzzling. Last time I checked, Lebanon is not a member of NATO nor was there an attack on any NATO country by Lebanon.
Next, he referred to Article I on the Constitution, claiming it detailed executive powers, to criticize Dick Cheney for his supposed over-involvement in the Congress. Too bad the Second Article of the Constitution outlines the executive. I find it appalling that the media hasn’t called him out on this. I would think that a vice-presidential candidate should at least be familiar with the Articles of the Constitution.
"We spend more money in three weeks on combat in Iraq than we spent on the entirety of the last seven years that we have been in Afghanistan building that country." Spending on the war in Afghanistan since 2001 has Since 2001, the US has spent $172 billion in Afghanistan. In Iraq, spending is around $10 billion a month. So Biden's calculations are off by about 2000%. No big deal.
"John McCain voted against a comprehensive nuclear test ban treaty that every Republican has supported." He should check his facts here, 49 Republicans voted against it and only 4 Republicans voted for it.
And, when he was interviewed by the same Katie Couric he said, "When the stock market crashed, Franklin D. Roosevelt got on the television and didn't just talk about the, you know, the princes of greed. He said, 'Look, here's what happened.'" First, Herbert Hoover was president in 1929, and secondly television didn’t exist then.
But somehow, these fibs go unnoticed by the media. Instead, Sarah Palin is made to look like a colossal idiot because she is from a small town and didn't reveal which newspapers she reads. Is there some kind of double standard here?
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I agree that the Acorn group seems to be ill trained young people for the most part and do not know if they fully understand what they are doing. Of course, if it is illegal, ignorance of the law is no excuse. Very sad. It concerns me that all of our candidates seem to have been somewhat slandered which is very disrespectful. Palin and Biden have my utmost sympathy since they seem to have been portrayed as clowns in a circus. There are valid questions concerning Obama's background(birth certificate, friends, allegiances, money sources, etc.). McCain's background would appear to be a matter of public record as is Biden(who has suffered from previous brain conditions in the past). Palin also seems to be totally exposed as is her entire family. As for whom we should concern ourselves with, I suggest finding the list of backers for both camps. GW does not win my approval but really believe that Cheney is a very focused man who had a plan and GW's ear. There is always power behind the puppets. As for the American economy collapse, I suggest that George Soros might have the answer to our problem. Thanks to all of you!
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I note with interest that when the Hockey Mom went to open a hockey game at the weekend, in Pennsylvania I believe, she was booed off the ice.
I think that people have noted her behaviour as Alaska governor and thought "Wait a minute, do I really LIKE pit-bulls, lipstick or no lipstick?"
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