Bad losers and bad finishers
The Truman camp - as they should be called - deserve a better hearing. Here is the case for McCain confounding "all the smarties" as Louis Mencken (I think it was him) called the pundits in 1948.
Dine with Mover and Shaker Democrats right now and the refrain is always the same: "Can this just be over?" The concentration on the McCain camp post-mortems leads me to wonder what the fall-out would be were Obama to lose. A friend shows me an email - vituperative bordering on barmy - from a prominent Hillary Clinton person on the subject of Obama and his fraudulent victory (over Hillary, not McCain) won in caucus votes that were fixed and aided by a media fuelled by misogyny and the desire for a new story. Should the famously bad finisher finish famously badly next Tuesday there will be scenes of mayhem - not just on the streets but in the salons as well; in fact the latter will be bloodier.
Comments
Wait - which one is the famously bad finisher? No matter - emotions are running high with supporters of both candidates. I just hope the smart man wins, the world needs a smart man at the helm of the US right now (that would be Obama, I believe). Not to mention the tears and dancing in the streets in joyous celebration at such a historical and moving event (that would be if Obama were to win, I believe).
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We (in the US) call him "H. L. Mencken." On the occasion of reflecting on the phenomenon of Truman's unexpected victory, Mencken quoted Thomas Jefferson:
To whom would that quote best apply?
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Hello Justin - are you getting sensitive about these accusations of pro-Obama bias.
Your link to a known partisan republican mouthpiece is interesting..... but the the article just rehashes the same old garbage.
And the email from a Hilary-ite - whatever next.
The media are now misogynist, but at least you're not racially prejudiced!!!
However there is still a grave danger that all sorts of factors will cause an upset ..... my enduring sadness is that the USA can elect it's president with a huge percentage of the population having not looked beyond their narrow preconceived worldview ( and I mean both sides)
Will there be mayhem if Obama loses .... I do think so, yes. If the Supreme Court gets involved it will be really messy.
Peace and a good solid win for Obama.
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There is a saying in the (Special?) Forces:
"WHEN THE GOING GETS TOUGH
THE TOUGH GET GOING"
McCain has proved himself in war, and now
he is proving in the Presidential elections.
When the chips are down McCain is the
person to turn to. There is sure to be 'light at end of the tunnel' for him.
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Obviously there is a lot of antipation as to the exact margin by which Obama will win, but is it just me or does everyone (and I am as guilty as this as everyone else!) secretly want this to be tight for Obama? Landslides just aren't that enthralling are they? I think the prospect of copious cups of coffee as we force ourselves to stay awake next Tuesday night is infinitely more exciting than seeing the Republicans utterly crushed.
Don't get me wrong, as a young Britain just out of uni I have been totally overwhelmed by Obama's campaign, and America2008 as a whole, and am convinced the world needs a President Obama. But here's hoping for 52-48%, and some late-calling states...
But please, no recounts.
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aanother link to a very biased website, not even remotely objective but i guess those are the only sources that believe mccain has a chance.
I noticed they didnt mention that the mass purging of voter rolls, kicking potential democratic voters off the voters list, like what is going on in colorado and nevada may give mccain an edge not yet calculated
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Justin, you are wrong. Hillery did complain on the same day of the Texas Caucus.
She was ignored by mainstream media, including the BBC. No effort *what so ever* was made to investigate.
I have posted [twice] a link to videos of democratic primary voters who go on camera and tell their story.
I think they are all telling the truth. If correct, massive caucus fraud means the guy who is the high priest of "community organising" is responsible.
If a politician is willing to fake election results to gain power, and belives in what Obama said in his 2001 radio broadcast, what kind of politician is he?
This guys charisma and TV performer power has sent everyone on ABC, NBC, CBS, BBC to sleep.
For gods sake Justin, go and learn something about the history of the Black community in Chicago, and how their experiences in the south left them vulnerable to being recruited by far left organisations.
For example, in his youth, Frank Marshall davis suffered a lynching attempt by four white youths. It is understandable that would have driven him to join up with an ideology that expresses the idea of equality at any cost. Ask questions, dig.
Just because all the other Journalists are sleepwalking about like Obama's drugged poodles is no excuse for you. Stop giving in to peer pressure and THINK.
Read "Dreams of my father" and "fugitive days" You're a journalist, you should be able to give us your opinion on whether Dreams was ghost written. Use "why organise" as a sample of Obama's actual writing style.
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"A friend shows me an email - vituperative bordering on barmy - from a prominent Hillary Clinton person on the subject of Obama and his fraudulent victory (over Hillary, not McCain) won in caucus votes that were fixed and aided by a media fuelled by misogyny and the desire for a new story."
J Webb
Strangely enough, that sounds exactly like the website that 'exserviceman' recently provided a link to. Twice.
He described it as 'quite moving' and added 'If you care anything about democracy, watch the videos.'
Moving indeed.
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As I recall, various people announced that Justin W linking to liberal sites like The Huffington Post was proof of his left wing bias.
Here he links to pajamasmedia.com. One glance at the site shows that it is extremely right wing - you just have to look at the stories it links to. ["LAPD Chief Bratton’s Shameful Obama Endorsement" was just one.]
Presumably this now 'proves' that JW has an irredeemable right wing bias?
Or maybe it just means he looks at a variety of web sites?
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I accept this completely, Justin, but what I haven't heard your opinion on is the aspect of negativity.
Obama is going for the high ground; McCain, most definitely for the low. Should Obama sink to McCain's level, or is he doing the right thing?
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The Arizona Republic reported this morning that McCain's lead over Obama in Arizona has been reduced to 2%.
Si, se pueda!
We can give Arizona to Obama!
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There is clearly a flight of Republicans deserting McCain for Obama - apart from Lieberman have any other influential Dems gone the other way? As far as I know the only prominent endorsement McCain has recently gained is from Sam the Unlicensed Tax Dodger - who clearly is positioning himself for a shot at becoming National Security Advisor for McCain given his recent FOX interview statements on Israel.... well it's not that far-fetched really is it - sometimes it seems like the Plumber and Palin were seperated at birth!
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Actually No.4 Scribesolomon I think the phrase you refer to comes from a one hit wonder called Billy Ocean. No doubt that crap song will soon be heard at McCain rallies nationwide.
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Scribesolomon wrote:
"There is sure to be 'light at end of the tunnel' for him (McCain)."
With any luck its a train coming the other way.
The world doesn't need four more years of the same.
Come on U.S.A. you know what to do.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Hillary supporters should get over it: she lost fair and square. Obama is the nominee. It just goes to show they vote based on personality rather than policy.
And McCain is hardly a winner. He lost as a pilot in a lost war and lost the 2000 Republican primaries to a lost cause, only to win the nomination for a party of losers in 2008.
god.
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"McCain has proved himself in war" - Scribesoloman
By bombing civilians, being shot down, then confessing to war crimes and making propaganda appearances with his captors?
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To contribute to any 'bad finish,' this article by Matt Gonzalez, Nader's VP mate, is quite a fact-filled bashing of Obama and his abandoning the poor.
http://counterpunch.org/gonzalez10292008.html
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McCain did not in fact "prove himself in war" although that is was the press (who have not done their homework) would have us believe.
Vietnam Veterans Against John McCain have a much different and probably much more accurate view of him than his devotees want to believe.
It's not just the MIA thing (that Perot was angry about) these men have a lot to say:
http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/
McCain supporters, watch the videos and respond.
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This is "the problem" with this, seemingly endless election, IT WILL NEVER BE OVER! On another blog of yours, I said the pretty much the same thing as you just did above about "bad losers". I was belittled, called names and talked about like I was "crazy"! I did consider the sources, but some how British folks just don't grasp the deadly seriousness of what is about to happen here. Like him or not, Obama is consdered an inexperienced usuper and fraud by many Americans. He won't even prove his citizenship. McCain is not well liked, and NEVER was, and MOST citizens wonder how we ever ended up with these two in the first place. They were never the choice of the people! I held my nose and voted yesterday. I expect great problems---I'm still "praying" for peace, and I have four college and university degrees and failed one class in my whole life, because I was ill. I add this not to brag but try to prove I have followed American and British politics for 60 years and this is the biggest most dangerous situation in American history. For you that think somehow this will be over, when it should be over... your dreaming! American's live in fear of what next week will bring. The worst part of all of this, is that things have been said and done during this election that brought out issues that we had all hoped died long ago like race, religion and extreme nationalism. The feelings on bothsides, that our backs are up against the wall will last long past November 4, 2008. No one knows how bad it will get, both sides are angry and armed. It is a sad day for America and the world.
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#4 Scribesolomon
"McCain has proved himself in war, and now
he is proving in the Presidential elections.
When the chips are down McCain is the
person to turn to. There is sure to be 'light at end of the tunnel' for him."
Sadly for McCain it will probably be Sarah Palin driving a Humvee straight at him...
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Interesting thing is that the national polls are definitely closing, but the state polls have, if anything improved for Obama over the last couple of days. MO, FL, IN and NC are all toss ups, but lets say McCain wins them. ND, MT and to a lesser extent GA are also up for grabs. Lets give them to McCain too. That still leaves Obama with (I think) 291. He could still lose NV, NM and CO, and win with 272. Looking at it like that you can see why it has become such a hard task for McCain. He needs some seriously good news. I guess that is why he has been concentrating on PA so much. If he can take that then he has a few options. Trouble is, todays polling average for PA is O +13.
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#8
John,
Something moved. I think it was my bowels.
Scatacalogical Sam
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john-in-Dublin (#9)
I am one of those people (and personally, I don't think he DOES have a liberal bias) who has said that. While, like most journalists, I suspect Justin does lean a little to the left (as an actress said to a bishop), his problem is more that he leaves himself wide open to criticism by linking to the HP and others, then thinks the best way to balance it out is by giving equal time to nutters like Pajamas et al.
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#4 Scribesoloman said:
"When the chips are down McCain is the
person to turn to."
Can I suggest you read this article in full please, but especially the section regarding the USS Forrestal, and then post a retraction to the tosh you have scribed at #4.
John McCain, a man to be trusted? If I was going to war he'd be the last man I'd want watching my back after reading that account of events. And please don't come back with the retort that it's all lies made up by the liberal media. In a society as litigious as the USA, Rolling Stone would already have had its butt dragged into court and the McCain camp screaming libel.
Back in 2004 when Bush got re-elected I had a momentary lapse and started thinking Americans were stupid, not a little stupid, but really stupid - 4 more years of a Bush administration - how could they. Then I thought, no, a nation can't be stupid and I re-evaluated my thoughts. Well, I know several really cool, intelligent Americans, (though funnily enough they all live overseas...) so why wouldn't I.
But, if the unthinkable happens on Tuesday then I really will think that nation America is just dumb, because McCain/Palin really is an un-electable ticket, anywhere in the world.
A maverick is the last thing America (or indeed the world) needs right now, and Palin is the second last thing it needs in the 'hot seat' (potentially). She just ISN'T (Vice) Presidential in any shape or form, no matter which way you want to cut it (well given a big enough budget she might have the aesthetics).
I mean, just play with images in your head for a while of Sarah Palin in any situation that requires intelligence, calmness, contemplation or comprehension and you end up running a comedy (or horror story for that matter).
And yes Justin, I really think there will be mayhem, the likes we haven't seen - both legally and sadly, violently.
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What i find to be scary about the pajamamedia link?
-The fact they paint Palin's "going rogue" in too bright of a color. Regardless how many hardcore Repubs are gazing upon her with hungry eyes, I'm quite sure the rest of the country (maybe even world, but I'll balk at a chance to speak for them) is still trying to figure out why she's there at all.
-the notion that "the “McCain=Bush” pitch is wearing thin." when the guy voted for bush over 90% of the time. It's not like he changed overnight, nor is he from the "new school". If that's being "Maverick", then call me "Ice Man".
However, I do agree that with the "bipartisanship going out the window" point. a Dem house and a Dem president may cause more harm then good; it's just nice to have some checks and balances.
Oh, by the by, if you get a chance, check out the "Even Female Conservative Pundits Embrace Palin Bashing" article over at pajama. I can't help but feel some of the points are a tad on the... well, you can read it for yourself and establish your own opinion.
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Ref # 13.
"Actually No.4 Scribesolomon I think the phrase you refer to comes from a one hit wonder called Billy Ocean."
That's a viscious leftie pinko commie lie.
He also had Get out of my dreams (and in to my car) and of course the classic Caribou Queen.
Damn socialist.
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John in Dublin at 8
John, I think Justin refers to an e-mail from a campaign member of Hillery's. Fine, I can see why he thought it might be a "bad losers" e-mail.
What I linked to looked [to me at least] like A group of ordinary americans, putting together mobile phone vids etc, with fairly poor sound and posting it online. It was multiple states.
If you can watch that and feel nothing, especially for the older voters, then well.. what can I say?
All the TV media ignored it, no stories, no interviews, not a peep.
The media *assume* Obama is telling the truth about the issue, becuse he looks and sounds the part.
Its lazy, sometimes the poor inarticulate person is telling the truth, and the slick charismatic one is the twister. What happened to "check the story," what happened to journalism?
No-one believed the children abused by a tiny minority of catholic priests either, did they?
This can't possibly be true, so don't check... sad.
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#13 Billy Ocean isn't a one hit wonder. He had a hit in the seventies "Red Light Spells Danger", a much better song than "Tough".
Check it out on YouTube.
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The lies and innuendos from the McCain/Palin camp is the obvious answer to your question Justin.
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Ref # 19.
Nessie i've seen your name mumerous tiomes on these blogs.
Surely you should know by now they won't respond to anything inconvienient (i.e. true) and even questioning McCains "stellar" war record will have them labeling you unpatriotic (if you are american) anti-american (if you are not and if you are) a kool aid drinker (cos apparently Obama is the same as Rev Jones and is talking america into political suicide, despite the fact that many of those poor people didn't volunteer but were forced, at gunpoint, to commit "suicide") or possibly a muslim terrorist (cos now you don't need to be either to be accused of both)
Don't risk the carpal tunnel or RSI injuries asking them dirct questions, sure don't you know god is on their side, they don't need to justify anything, if you are not with them you are against them.
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#16. TheHandOfHistory: "Hillary supporters should get over it: she lost fair and square. Obama is the nominee. It just goes to show they vote based on personality rather than policy."
I believe most Hillary supporters now support Mr Obama; one irate e-mail (why do the British spell it without the hyphen?) is hardly representative of the 17 million others who voted for Hillary. However, I do believe the media was pro-Obama and gave Mrs Clinton short shrift.
Should Mr McCain win next Tuesday, there will doubtless be a postmortem about the wisdom of not selecting her as the Vice-presidential candidate. Much earlier I wrote on this blog that Mr Obama could not win without Mrs Clinton, not considering then that Mrs Palin would be brought in to rally the Republican troops. Whatever one's opinions of her, she certainly has shaken up the electorate and should she become the vice-president, I think Mr McCain will assume his office because of her. On the other hand, should McCain be defeated, she might, similarly, be at least a part of the reason.
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I cannot believe Joe the Plumber is now on the campaign trail for the Republicans... What has the McCain-Palin ticket come to?? I'm sure Joe is probably set for a job should McCain win the election (which isn't looking likely despite the normal tightening of the polls in the run-up to the election).
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There are only a few ways for McCain to win this election.
1. A rigged election with the Diebold voting machines playing an integral part.
2. A rigged election with the Supreme Court playing an integral part.
3. A terrorist attack in the next couple of days.
The polls are not the vote count but they are an indication of which way things are likely to go.
And with such a lead in the polls, Obama should flog McCain in the vote come Nov 4.
Obama may not solve all the problems of America but I believe he would be a lot better suited to repairing the US than McCain and Palin.
If Obama wins, and I am still nervous that it will be stolen from him, the world will sigh in relief. And then we will all wait to see how he deals with the rest of the world and the economy and we will then form our opinions of his administration based on what he does.
If McCain and Palin wins, I suspect there will be riots in the streets, and internationally it will be bombs away.
I think this election is massively important.
I believe Obama could, start to repair America's reputation internationally, even with sworn enemies which has been totally unreasonable from the US side in some cases. Hopefully he will change all that.
And the American middle class might have a chance with him in the saddle.
I believe that McCain and Palin would put the final nail in the American Empire's coffin with rash and irresponsible policies and would further tarnish the American relationship with the rest of the world.
And with the economy, I think McCain would run it further and harder into the ground than Bush managed to do, but at least the super rich would get their tax cuts. The middle class will be crushed with you either being filthy rich or just plain filthy.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
20 - the "prove his citizenship" ship has sailed.
1. If there were anything to the rumors, McCain would at least mention it. Palin would be pitching fits.
2. Even if he hadn't been born in Hawaii (he was), since he is the son of a U.S. citizen, he's a citizen. Give it a rest.
You may be right about violence if McCain loses. His dupes have been fanned into full-fledged, fear driven fury.
I'm not sure he could reign them in if he wanted to.
Neither is the candidate I wanted, but Obama is calm and intelligent and he's the better of the two. He also doesn't have a 72-year old ticker and (shudder) Palin waiting in the wings.
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Guys,
Lets cut through all the BS. McCain has not done a single thing to define what he would do. He said 'I am not George Bush. If you wanted to run against him you should have run 4 years ago'
If Johnny M had a pair he would have run against him 4 years ago. McCain has only said what he isn't. No leadership, no vision.
This is my last post on the election. I'm done, I voted. And when I saw Obama close tonight I cried a tear and honestly thought 'Dear God please let us elect this man'.
Good night and good luck.
Sam
P.S. Damn it we could have seen more of m
Michelle
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erm, some paranoia. US has closed embassy in Syria due to 'security concerns'. This just after US raid into Syria, causing casualties, McCain campaign almost simultaneously releases adverts stressing national security ... Maybe I've watched too many movies ...
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25
Thanks for that link, I'm sending it to everyone! I'm betting the righties won't read it though.
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http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/10/mccain-miami-rally-getting-ugly-down.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQYcVO5DhqQ
Good to see that not everyone at Fox News is completely biased!
When Joe the Plumber says Obama is not a "real American", I think it's fairly obvious what he's trying to say. If this idiot is the future of the GOP, the party will be in the wilderness for many years.
Ref: 22, yes, the national polls have tightened but not the state polls which indicates that McCain is surging in places that he doesn't need to like Kentucky, Oklahoma and West Virginia. Let's face it, the rednecks were never going to vote for Obama.
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everyoneiscrazy at 35
All Obama has to do is produce the full [the one with all the info on it] birth cirtificate to a group of independent experts and the issue will vanish.
He hasn't done that, the item is not lost, its now sealed. His permission is required to unseal it... etc etc
The US laws are who can stand for POTUS are complicated, other countries have totally different systems. A mess really.
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Now we're talking violence if McCain isn't elected? Come on, now, this is the 21st Century in America- do you all really, truly believe, really, truly fear that much?
This isn't a game, and this isn't some good-vs.evil fantasy. If the Right survived Bill Clinton, Jimmy Carter, Johnson, Kennedy, Truman, FDR, etc. etc. etc., then how is Obama that much worse, that some are alluding to armed insurrection?
I keep telling myself that the vast majority aren't having self-righteous hallucinations... and then I get chain e-mails from an acquaintance, asking us to pray for our nation, that God will put turn us away from the one who wants to destroy Christianity...
If I put my fingers in my ears, will the screaming stop?
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I've just read that David Tennant will not be returning as The Doctor when normal series transmission resumes after the upcoming movie-length Doctor Who "specials". More to the point, no decision seems to have been made regarding who will be stepping into his shoes to save Earth on a regular basis. I have a suggestion.
Assuming that ALL the pollsters aren't hopeless, AND that more voting machine skullduggery isn't afoot, AND that the Supreme Court doesn't intervene to ensure the "correct" result, AND that Bin Laden doesn't come up with a video just clever enough to fool the less intelligent swinging voters, then John McCain just might be the man. Or Galifreyan, if you prefer.
After all, McCain has piloted heavier-than-air machines, albeit rather badly. He's been captured by so-called "gooks", and if that name doesn't conjure up malevolent aliens then I don't know what does. His age means he's had a great deal of experience...even if he doesn't seem to have learned much as a consequence. He's a self-proclaimed one-of-a-kind "maverick" - if only according to himself and his bigger fans. He also seems to have something of a messiah complex. I rest my case.
But wait, there's more! If the next Doctor's new travelling companion is to be an attractive younger female Earthling who has loads of "moxie", not too much intelligence, a big imaginary friend, and has a thing about witches, then I think I might have a suggestion to make in that regard too...
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this story is inspiring
http://www.statesman.com/news/content/news/stories/local/10/27/1027jones.html
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Interesting to think about. We hear threats of riots and mayhem, and while it is true, during blackouts or crisis in welfare states, you'll see rioters for "social justice" smashing shop windows and stealing tvs or slashing little Korean couples if they get in their way. We could see riots if O loses. Not so likely if McCain loses, I don't think. The police are getting ready, either way. If McCain loses, I see a Constitutional crisis and possibly states seceding from the union. In the first civil war it was the Democrats who left the union to preserve slavery. This time it would be Republicans leaving the union to preserve freedom from socialism.
At first I thought, if O wins, and Pelosi and Reid make three in an absolute one party government, it would take a hundred years for them to eat the fat and meat off the middle and working class. Collectively, we're rich. Why else are we such a target of con artists in the government? But, now I realize the middle and working class won't stay still for them to start eating. I think they may fight back. It's possible. It would be done state by state.
If you don't like the position of your state, you would move to the state with the position you like. You'll end up with states aligned against states. The Pro-freedom states would elect their own president, congress, and establish courts. They would keep the US Constitution especially since the other side won't be using it anymore. It'll be up for grabs :)
Just thinking...who knows.
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#34. redagast: "If Obama wins, and I am still nervous that it will be stolen from him, the world will sigh in relief."
Not the whole world, surely? With regard to riots in the streets, this could only occur if the result is not clear cut - a repeat of 2000 is just not to be contemplated. If McCain-Palin win, just hope that it would be by a substantial margin so that it could never be seen to have been compromised. Conversely it may not be the expected landslide for Obama and that too needs to be a decisive victory.
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I don't think you guys understand whats really at steak here. This is no longer about trite things like "looking presidential", "speaking ability", "Race & Gender", or even "foreign policy".
Obama is a socialist - he no long refutes it. At his last rally the lady who introduced him did so declaring "The time has come for a second bill of rights."
People i meet who defend him now say things like "whats wrong with communism?"
"Whats WRONG with COMMUNISM?!"
- dear god, what is happening?!
This is so much more than you guys can even imagine right now - this goes so far beyond racial issues and even the economy.
This is a fight to continue to exist as we do now. If McCain wins - yes, he lacks much - but our country lives on a little longer. If Obama wins...
we become something else...
I'm actually scared, and I'm not alone. I come from a proud military family, and I love my country, flaws and all - not because i'm blinded by illusions of greatness, but because of the hope that has always existed within each of us from the day the constitution was drafted. From that day that good men came together to debate the meaning and proper place of government.
I am so scared...
I don't want to see us go the way of Cuba and Venezuela.
I don't want a government that puts a cap on the American Dream. I don't want a government that tells us what to do and how to think. I don't want to told I can no longer voice my opinion or even arm myself to defend my family.
If you hear nothing else, hear this. This man Obama that you think is so great will be the end of us. This may very well be our last presidential election.
Go on - praise obama all you want. Degrade anyone who doesn't support him. Call everyone who finds the will to stand against him a "right winger" or "uninformed". Your opinions no longer matter to me, and I feel my very world and everything I hold dear crushing in on me.
I have just one plea.
Please rebuild your military.
We saved you half a century ago. The time may come for you to return the favor.
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With just short of 300 million people you are going to have some unhappy losers and some wacko's; but don't sell us short. Generally speaking, who ever we elect, we know if he is a screw up we will dump him in four years; it really isn't necessary to shoot anyone. Post election violence is something that the rest of the world is known for, not us.
As for our "narrow view of the world", hey you may think its narrow; it may be narrow but we are still a world power that people flock to by the thousands to live in. British make up a large percentage of those numbers.
I can't help but smile when I hear condescending comments about the lack of understanding, yada, yada, yada stuff about Americans. Somehow we manage to get by and do as well or better than anyone else. Quite frankly if we took your advice we wouldn't be American, we would be British. Not that that is so terrible; it just wouldn't be American.
Who ever wins (the polls have it with in the margin of error), America will still be a great place to live and the rest of the world will still be visiting us as often as possible.
My money is on McCain. I don't believe what candidates say at election time because basicly they all stretch things farther than they should; after all they are going for the most powerful position in the world. I go by their history. Obama, if you eliminate his questionable friends (I include them), he has no history worth speaking of. Lets see, he got the democratic nomination in his state for state senate because his party incumbant got caught in a sex scandal. He won the state senate because his Republican opponent got caught in a sex scandal too! Beating two slippery dicks does not endear you to me. Six years as a state senator with no record worthy of comment. Then he runs for US Senate and is there for less than two years. McCain has 21 years in the US Senate with a history of bills sponsored and positions taken. I am leaning towards McCain.
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Just went to fivethirtyeight.com to restore a bit of sanity, and instead read a blog about 2 Obama supporters almost getting assaulted by an angry crowd at a McCain rally in Miami today.
What sort of bad movie has this election turned into, anyway?
I know- the scene in the Dark Knight where the drug-enraged crowd assaults Batman when he was trying to save them, because the drugs they'd inhaled made him look like a fire-breathing demon?
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No.28 Exserviceman
What? You are comparing Democratic nominee elections to child rape??? Are you just insanely dim witted or trying to be funny? That is some of the stupidest s**t I have ever heard.
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37. SamTyler1969 wrote:
"This is my last post on the election. I'm done . . ."
You can't leave us so short-handed in the asylum now.
And there are the squirrels to think of.
42. Via-Media wrote:
"If I put my fingers in my ears, will the screaming stop?"
I don't know. I keep closing my eyes when I read some of the pitiful rants and mudslinging here that passes for political argument, but when I open them, they're still there.
Even when people are supposed to be writing about potholes and rusty nuts in bridges. . . .
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#31
Dear everyoneiscrazy. I hear you. I'm getting the idea that a couple of the posters are putting us on anyway. No one that dense could use a keyboard.
I'm an American whose family was all Air Force. My late husband was a pilot who never lost one plane, let alone McCain's FIVE! Watching a psuedo hero drives me wild.
#42
I started out in (and am now FAR away from) the South - way back in the hills. My first memories are of my uncle sitting on the front porch so the neighbors could see him, loading a pistol to take to work. My mother carried a gun when we went out to get a Christmas tree in the woods. Granted it was a few years ago. I've lived in a lot of places. More recently I worked in a jail. I've seen violence done over far less than the leadership of the country.
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fearlessbritabroad at 25
Yes I have read that article before.
There are grains of truth in that article.
The dicipline at naval training obviously grated on him, and he did rebel almost getting kicked out.
The only defence I can give for that is the dicipline is to get people who will still be able to function in combat. If you are brave enough, it does tend to irritate after a while.
John was brave enough to volunteer for flight ops over N. Vietnam after the forrestal fire. At that time the communists were developing a sophisticated integrated air defense system, with the danger increasing over time, so that was brave but obviously it would also help his career.
Mccain was an average pilot, brave but performed stunts at times in training that must have come close to getting him grounded permanently. [hitting the spanish power cable for example]
He never claimed to be the Red Barron.
Stories about his temper are true, although some of the corrupt Republicans in congress deserve all the tongue lashings they got. I watched the MIA hearings, although he goes red and takes a break at one stage, considering the difficulties involved I dont find it surprising.
The criticism that stings is that he did not correct press stories that painted him as somekind of a unique hero - hundreads of pilots like the USAF pilot Dramesi had the same experience or worse.
The story that he gave a "confession" under torture is correct, although it was a pretty useless "air pirate" type bullshit one, obviously given under duress.
As for giving info for medical aid, the stuff that is public is such bland stuff that it cant have surprised anybody. Resisting interrogation is fine, but if you have only low grade info - why commit suicide?
The divorce from his first wife was perhaps his worst moment. I think she was paraplegic after her accident, and many of her friends never forgave him. Nancy and Ronald Reagan treated him coldly after that.
Nancy Reagan found his ex-wife a job at the white house, which was very decent of her.
The Keating savings and loan affair was a black mark on his senate career. He did fight for campaign finance reform as a result to try to make amends. It took years to get that through.
At the end of the day I find him a flawed man who tried to learn from his mistakes.
As for the other guy everybody on the board knows how I feel about him.
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Fear has overcome all common sense and all rationality for a far-out few. This blog seems to attract them.
"If McCain loses, I see a Constitutional crisis and possibly states seceding from the union. In the first civil war it was the Democrats who left the union to preserve slavery. This time it would be Republicans leaving the union to preserve freedom from socialism."
"...if O wins, and Pelosi and Reid make three in an absolute one party government..."
"If you don't like the position of your state, you would move to the state with the position you like. You'll end up with states aligned against states. The Pro-freedom states would elect their own president, congress, and establish courts. They would keep the US Constitution especially since the other side won't be using it anymore. It'll be up for grabs"
"- dear god, what is happening?!...This is a fight to continue to exist as we do now. If McCain wins - yes, he lacks much - but our country lives on a little longer. If Obama wins...
we become something else...
I'm actually scared, and I'm not alone. ...
If you hear nothing else, hear this. This man Obama that you think is so great will be the end of us. This may very well be our last presidential election."
This saddens me, when rational discourse is subsumed in a wave of fear. Perhaps the electronic age has allowed such interconnectedness that folks predisposed to believe the fearmongering can feed their own predispositions.
Someone a few threads back suggested that education is the key. Education is indeed the key, and if this is the product- people who only go to sources that confirm their suspicions, rather than search for the facts- then I am deeply ashamed and saddened for this country.
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#47,
I think you have been paying too much attention to McCain/Palin. Republicans portray fear as their weapon against the Democrats and you've completely fallen for it. Obama is not a communist, he is a liberal and, as someone else said yesterday about the Partie Socialiste (or something like that) in France, if you were to give his policies to a proper socialist party outside America they would laugh at the idea of those policies being socialist. Obama plans on raising taxes for the rich (>$250,000 a year income) to 39%. Our "socialist" government here in the UK taxes 40% to earners above $80,000 a year income (don't know the exact exchange rate)- so Obama is still pretty far off our very moderate left-wing government.
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Were Obama not to win next Tuesday, I think that the disappointment felt by the millions of Americans who will vote for him may be something that the country is unprepared for, particularly if there is a supreme court decision rather than a concession.
Obama has lots of money for a reason and he is treated like a rock star at rallies for a reason - he has evidently captured the imagination of a significant proportion of the US at a time of great importance.
After the second presidential debate, the live feed to the BBC was left running for 15 minutes or so. McCain shook a few hands on his way out, but Obama was still there when the feed cut as everyone in the room wanted to shake his hand and wouldn't let him leave.
After Bush was given the Whitehouse by the supreme court in 2000 his motorcade sped through the streets after the 2001 inauguration to avoid the people holding signs reading "You're not my president".
If McCain is given the Whitehouse in the same way he may very well need a helicopter.
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Now, about 'socialist' handouts:
"U.S. banks getting more than $163 billion from the Treasury Department for new lending are on pace to pay more than half of that sum to their shareholders, with government permission, over the next three years.
"The government said it was giving banks more money so they could make more loans. Dollars paid to shareholders don't serve that purpose, but Treasury officials say that suspending quarterly dividend payments would have deterred banks from participating in the voluntary program." [Washington Post]
This was actually headlined in The Guardian in Britain more than a week ago.
Why, I ask, is money being diverted for loans to pay shareholders a dividend from the taxpayer so as to save the bank from paying both its shareholders and bonuses? Out of a plan devised by a Republican president? Supported by McCain?
And of course, Palin is now accusing Obama of palling around with the PLO . . .Serves him right, I say. What do you expect? I mean, you can't go round sharing your sandwich with other kids willy-nilly. That's definitely communism. Learnt at such a young age, too.
He really should have been taught that to be a 'real American' and a capitalist, (this is PROOF he is neither, isn't it?) he had to charge the other kids for every bite of his sandwich. That's the American Way, isn't it? 'Somebody' has to pay?
People can argue all they like that this election is not founded in race and hate, but it's dam' difficult to see it any other way.
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# 53
Here's the scoop on Mrs. McCain #1:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1024927/The-wife-John-McCain-callously-left-behind.html
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37. At 01:53am on 30 Oct 2008, SamTyler1969 wrote:
This is my last post on the election. I'm done, I voted. And when I saw Obama close tonight I cried a tear and honestly thought 'Dear God please let us elect this man'.
Good night and good luck.
Sam
P.S. Damn it we could have seen more of m
Michelle
I love it! I am over talking about John McCain. I am optimistic that Obama will be victorious but, not too cocky. I am done with that mouth piece, windbagette Sarah Palin. She is making women look bad. Someone tell her to shut up. Let's see some more Michelle. Someone with class please. However, John McCain does have those really short arms that make him look like a T-rex and he is also as old as a dinosaur.
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57. At 03:40am on 30 Oct 2008, british-ish wrote:
Now, about 'socialist' handouts:
U.S. banks getting more than $163 billion from the Treasury Department for new lending are on pace to pay more than half of that sum to their shareholders, with government permission, over the next three years.
"The government said it was giving banks more money so they could make more loans. Dollars paid to shareholders don't serve that purpose, but Treasury officials say that suspending quarterly dividend payments would have deterred banks from participating in the voluntary program." [Washington Post]
I call this the ultimate capitalism for the GOP. Does the GOP know the definition socialism???? I just cannot put enough question marks there.
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#34. redagast: "If Obama wins, and I am still nervous that it will be stolen from him, the world will sigh in relief."
#47. David_Cunard: "Not the whole world, surely? With regard to riots in the streets, this could only occur if the result is not clear cut - a repeat of 2000 is just not to be contemplated. If McCain-Palin win, just hope that it would be by a substantial margin so that it could never be seen to have been compromised. Conversely it may not be the expected landslide for Obama and that too needs to be a decisive victory."
Well maybe not the whole world. But I think even those who despise America like Hugo Chavez or the Iranian leadership would prefer to deal with Obama because he doesn't project the hyper-aggressive attitude that McCain and Palin project.
Osama bin Laden if he is even still alive might not sigh with relief with an Obama victory because McCain would do a better job of further ruining the American economy and thus no longer being able to afford to occupy muslim lands. Although that isn't stopping them now. But it sounds good in theory.
In my view, there is absolutely no chance of a McCain landslide, that would be rigging of the highest order. But a slender McCain victory or a Supreme Court decided McCain victory would in my opinion trigger rioting.
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To #7 exserviceman:
As a black person from Chicago, I take great offense at your comment. Why is it so wrong to want equality at any expense? Is it just to go for a job interview and see the look on the white interviewer's face they weren't expecting you (a black woman) because your name doesn't immediately identify you as black? If it is not enough to educate yourself, pay your dues and serve your country regardless of color, then what else do we have to do to become "acceptable" citizens without people like you questioning our loyalty to this country or abusing a "mythical" power to rise above the norm and be greater?
BTW, racial inequality didn't just happen in Chicago either! I am sick and tired of people accusing Obama of "pulling the race card"! Enough already! Quite with the rumors and innuendo!
Proud Obamabot!
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Tom Delay just called Obama a Marxist on MSNBC. I think he needs a class in sociology. He is a disgrace to this country and he has disgraced this country. He is the poster boy of the lying, greedy, slimy politician.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_DeLay
only 6 days to go.
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#16
Couldn't have said it better!!!!!
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It is true that Obama having less than 50% in key states going into the polls would be worrisome. Most of the undecided voters are white, low-income, and low-education -- matching the Republican profile. That's not a slam, simply a demographic fact.
Most of the pajamasmedia article is a repackaging of attacks that simply haven't stuck this year. I think ut tepeats McCain's fundamental problem -- he's using code words that don't resonate. "Redistribution of wealth"? "Earmarks"? "PLO"? Most people don't know or care about these things. And after seeing Obama speaking at so many speeches and debates, "socialist" and "terrorist" are just so obviously overused and/or over the top as to be meaningless.
There are still plenty of ways for McCain to pull it out though. The Syria attack was a clever GOP trick -- give them credit for that -- but it doesn't seem to have had the desired effect. Stay tuned for the next October surprise -- probably something like "Obama's white ex-girlfriend tells all."
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Having watched Mr Obama's production, I was reminded of the campaign by the British Labour Party leading up to the General Election of 1959. They too promised to spend without raising taxation - and they lost. Because everyone could see that they were promising far more than they could possibly deliver. With regret, despite all the fine words, I see Mr Obama falling into the same trap and, if he should fail, it may well be because of that same reason: where is the money coming from? It can't all be "trimming" this and that.
I was disappointed that he did not linger on the plight of the elderly, just a little about lost pensions. And why, oh why so many overweight people on display? If you're on a budget, surely food should be one of the first things to consider; I would have thought that the "middle class" poor would have been rather slimmer. Is all America that fat? I don't think so! I can't believe it helped anyone to make up their mind to vote for him, quite possibly the reverse to what was intended.
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32, David.
Even though Palin is popular with a certain segment of society, she was still a big mistake. She appeals to extreme right-wingers, voters Obama never would have gotten anyway, and has alienated the moderates and independents.
So what did McCain gain, other than excitement and perhaps a better turnout in states that were his in the first place. I think for this reason the popular vote will be close, but the electoral votes are Obama's, by a safe margin.
As for the Hillary supporters, I can't see them going over to Palin. She is a throwback to the barefoot and pregnant era.
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Niwus (#47) wrote:
"I don't think you guys understand whats really at steak here."
I think most of us do. McCain's goose is almost certainly cooked.
Unless of course there's a late October/early November "surprise". Such as a brand new Bin Laden video clever enough to convert sufficiently many of the more gullible and easily-scared swinging voters to bring about a continuation of Republican "War on Terror" strategies based on extreme ideology and (at least pre-Petraeus) not on too much intelligent deep analysis. Obviously these Republican strategies have, by and large, worked remarkably well - for Bin Laden. In particular, these Republican strategies have in reality handed to Bin Laden a growing supply of raw recruits around the globe. Bin Laden must be fearful indeed of an Obama victory - for he'll suddenly have a super-intelligent opponent in the White House for the first time in over 7 years.
Niwus, if you can pause and reflect calmly for long enough on the bigger picture, you just might find that you've been cynically manipulated by some seriously savvy Republican scaremongers. Did you vote Republican in 2004? If so, are you now glad you did?
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#47
oh yea? well, I hear that if mccain becomes president the sun will explode.
what movies have you been watching?
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65, RalphMa.
"Stay tuned for the next October surprise -- probably something like 'Obama's white ex-girlfriend tells all.'"
If there were any real dirt on Obama it would have come out by now, and I am sure there is a whole cadre digging. So the alternative is to make stuff up.
McCain's disadvantage is that nobody cares about the election anymore. They are numb, immune to mudslinging, and just want it all to end.
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Via-Media, Just a thought, maybe frustration is high because McVoters think Ovoters never bothered to learn Econ 101 or basic Am. Gov't. They certainly cannot argue that they read. Plus the McCain campaigned against the MSM. Palin hangs in effigy on the side of a house in California, showing what Dems really think of successful women in the USA etc...Oil is down, but if there is an Evil Axis of Obama, Pelosi, and Reid, you can forget energy, free speech...the list is long. People are not fighting to "make history" and singing in happy One Party harmony for the Great Leader. Our McEyes are open. People are fighting for their freedom. (whoop! went right over the head.) You might get it a year from now if O wins. But, I doubt it. Denial on the other side is thicker than some of the heads. If McCain wins we have four years to teach the rest of you basic information before you try to sell our souls to the devil again. If O wins, you are on your own.
niwus00,
I don't call you uninformed. Your family obviously taught you like they were supposed to. Plenty are with you. Stand under God's wing. We're going to be ok because we're on the side of freedom. Where the Spirit of the Lord is there is Liberty. Look for scrips on fear. Jesus said do not fear 365 times in the Bible.
We are not going to convince other people to stand on the side of freedom with us if they have not joined us yet. In fact, they empowered our enemies with their anti-Americanism. They wanted this to happen. If they are blind, they choose it for themselves and get what they deserve.
Stand on your Bill of Rights and the US Constitution. They belong to you. They can't take from us anything that came from God. Everything that comes from God is eternal. All we have to do is make a stand, and the party of slavers will lose.
Remember, we're the ones with a backbone. We're the ones with initiative. We're the ones with the tax dollars.
What are they going to do? Put us in jail for refusing to give them our earnings and defeat our purpose for existing to them? I mean, they aren't going to work in our place! They are the "negotiators" who will sit down with terrorists. Surely, they can find a way to sit down with thought criminals like us.
It's no use if they cancel the Bill of Rights. They didn't give us the Bill of Rights. They can't do it because we won't validate the action, period, and one other detail...we're armed, and they know it. That might be all they need to know.
Take it day by day. This weekend, turn off the news. Look at the sky; pet the cat; watch an old movie on tv from the days before Hollywood hated the Americans who made them rich. :)
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62, Millie.
We can begin to put it all behind us on January 20th. That is our trump card. In the meantime let racists say whatever they want. Their day is done.
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Apologies - I need to make a correction to my post #68.
As most of you will have realised, I meant to write: McCain's MOOSE is almost certainly cooked.
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It will be a landslide victory. Anyone who thinks differently is just deluded.
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Nessie.
I'm kinda hoping that come nov 5th with Obama safely in the white house there will be an MTV punk'd election special with 10 celebrities revealing their BBC handles and laughing. Personally i think MagicKirin is George Clooney.
It's the only explanation, theres no way any of those guys are serious!
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66, David.
"And why, oh why so many overweight people on display? If you're on a budget, surely food should be one of the first things to consider; I would have thought that the "middle class" poor would have been rather slimmer. Is all America that fat?"
The lower the class of a person in America, the fatter he is. What that tells you is that everyone has more than enough money for food. Welfare people are fat too.
I know we do not have a class system in America (HaHa) and it is politically incorrect to suggest it. What politicians are calling middle-class is not middle-class at all, but working people who are getting by. The true middle-class is more comfortable than that.
Anyway you didn't hear any of this from me.
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11, Aqua.
McCain losing Arizona would be icing on the cake! I only wish Palin could lose Alaska.
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allmymarbles,
You are talking about someone who sacrificed his or her life for your freedom and all Americans in the military. His service refutes your accusation and shows you in error. You owe that ex-service member an apology. FYI, your opponents who think differently from you are not going anywhere.
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52, Nessie.
"I'm an American whose family was all Air Force. My late husband was a pilot who never lost one plane, let alone McCain's FIVE! Watching a psuedo hero drives me wild."
Not only that! Four of the five planes he lost were due to pilot error, and that includes the one that resulted in his capture. He disobeyed instructions about the route he was to use to return to base.
Now there is information about a coverup concerning a serious auto accident McCain was involved in when he was a lieutenant. The Navy and the Naval hospital refuse to release any information. It is not clear if a fatality was involved. Shades of Ted Kennedy!
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The poorer you are in America, the more processed garbage you have to eat that makes you gain weight because you can't afford to eat healthy. It's the weirdest phenomenon here and I think it may be pretty much exclusive to America. But, don't quote me on that. Our government loves genetically modified food/ processed food.
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Yes, Justin, Hillary thught it was sneaky that Obama worked the caucuses. What she is really sorry about is that she never thought of it herself.
Like or dislike Obama, no one can fault his planning, organization, and far-sightedness. Will those traits that make him a good president? I hope so.
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jcputn5349
Thanks for joining in. We needed a genu ine red necked god fearin gun totin commie hatin patriot on this blog to balance against the tree huggin gay whale lovin lefties.
Whatdya say we bomb anyone who dares to call ol' John boy anything but a war hero.
USA USA USA
Hehehehehehe
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What I'm reading here from some of the spokesmen of the right -- and what they point us to on the web -- is so out of this world I can only believe it's either supposed to be some sort of subtle satire which I cannot grasp; if not it's the outpouring of people who are seriously psychotic.
I do take some comfort in that there is only a handful of them. I hope they represent as small a minority in the USA as here, despite Palin's obvious attempts to demonstrate they are not.
But as a rational human being, I've come to the conclusion I'm wasting too much time here attempting to argue with them, let alone making fun of them.
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80, ladycm.
"The poorer you are in America, the more processed garbage you have to eat that makes you gain weight because you can't afford to eat healthy."
Sorry, Lady, the opposite is true. I calculated the cost of fat people's diet and it was MORE expensive. The problem is that they do not cook, and when they do, it usually means heating up prepared foods. They live a good part of their lives on pizzas and MacDonald's. Then figure in the cost of sodas, pototo chips, popcorn, bottled juices, candy bars and bad pastries. Add to that - quantity. Go to the supermarket in a poor neighborhood and stand in the checkout line to see what I mean.
Money is not the issue.
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#76. allmymarbles : "The lower the class of a person in America, the fatter he is. What that tells you is that everyone has more than enough money for food. Welfare people are fat too."
Have you ever stood in line at the supermarket behind someone who uses food stamps? Of course some people really do need them to live, but I often see only the best of everything loaded into their baskets (trolley for the Brits!) It's rarely the store or generic brand, when buying such 'non-brands' would go that much further and stretch the budget. I've always thought that, like medication, when a generic version is available, that's what should be purchased. As you say, it's not PC to say so, but many times the programme does seem to be take advantage of.
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#71 jcputn5349
Can't you talk something without bringing religion into it? Saying that "We are on the side of god" is not only reckless and irresponsible, it's also dangerous.
"We are not going to convince other people to stand on the side of freedom with us if they have not joined us yet. In fact, they empowered our enemies with their anti-Americanism"
Are you some clone of bush?That was exactly his kind of logic : "Either you are with us or you are with the terrorists."
Bull headed and blind. Which is why you people never learn.
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#75. everyoneiscrazy: "Personally i think MagicKirin is George Clooney."
Drop the 'C' and you'd be correct.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
I can't resist quoting this from BBC News:
"A French judge has rejected President Nicolas Sarkozy's attempt to stop sales of a "voodoo doll" in his image.
Dismissing the case, the Paris judge said the doll was 'within the authorised limits of free expression and the right to humour'.
Apparently it's covered in Sarko sayings you can stick pins into. Now, let's hear it again for tyranically-repressed Europe and American freedom of expression.
I'd quite like one of Painful Palin. But I forget: dangling an effigy of her is 'outrageous' and it has to be removed.
Now which side exactly is it that's repressive, Mr Putin?
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82. redagast wrote:
jcputn5349
"Whatdya say we bomb anyone who dares to call ol' John boy anything but a war hero."
Stick pins into their effigies!
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#90 british-ish
"Stick pins into their effigies!"
More better, celebrate like guy fawkes day and burn them!
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I love how these topics always start right on-topic and right on-point, and always finish out in left field. How did we go from talking about "Poor losers," to "We are freedom fighters chosen by god" rhetoric?
"the internet: giving you too big of a soap box since 1969!"
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Re 386.
I believe some of these so called christians actually believe jesues is blue eyed and white and god is this grey haired (again white) old man.
If jesus existed, and not being around 200 years ago i cannot say for sure, he would hav ebeen born in the middle east, this would have made him, and you better whisper this bit, dark skinned or in American an arab.
I'm fairly sure god, if he/she/it exists is not noticibly pro or anti american. Isn't he/she/it supposed to love everyone equally?
Unless you are gay of course, or a muslim. can't forget that.
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78, jcp.
Don't hold your breath. My standards for "hero" are different from yours.
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"They are the "negotiators" who will sit down with terrorists. Surely, they can find a way to sit down with thought criminals like us."
Very woolly thinking Mr Putin. I really thought you'd grasped the essential elements of the 'left-wing-liberalism' you and one or two others keep attacking some of us for by now.
Dear me no. You really can't expect us to 'sit down' or 'negotiate' with the 'thought criminals' of the far right. Though some of us have, admittedly, been trying to do that for weeks with lamentably little success.
No, I'm afraid it's the re-education camps for you 'thought criminals'. And then a spell in a work unit in one of the chillier parts of Alaska. We'll try to teach you all how to deal with a polar bear that's angry about global warming and the loss of his environment, but you'll have to rely on your powers of persuasion. Definitely no arms.
By that I mean 'no guns'. 'No arms' could well be the outcome of your discussions I fear. But that's the risk people who find it difficult to make friends of others by rational argument instead of threats and fearmongering take, of course.
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93, everyone.
Judaism has the old testament, Christianity has the old and new testaments, Islam has the old and new testaments and the Koran. Most people do not realize that. Many Moslems are named 'Issa (Jesus).
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93. everyoneiscrazy wrote:
"you better whisper this bit, dark skinned or in American an arab."
Well he was Semitic, as indeed Arabs from the Middle East are (which is why an Arab friend of mine tends to get very irritated when accused of 'anti-Semitism' just because she is pro-Palestinian.). But some Arabs do actually have blonde hair, pale skins and even blue eyes.
As for God favouring Americans (or America) particularly, it's often said, but isn't he supposed to be strictly against the (American Pop) idol?
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http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,420341,00.html
Read.
and then tell me Bill O'Reilly is not a far right bully.
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And this, of course, is the point at which those who have had a humourectomy along with their political education usually leave us.
But, sadly, so must I.
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#67. allmymarbles : "Even though Palin is popular with a certain segment of society, she was still a big mistake. She appeals to extreme right-wingers, voters Obama never would have gotten anyway, and has alienated the moderates and independents."
I agree with your first sentence but think that her appeal was/is broader than you suggest. The disaffected "economically disadvantaged" who wrap themselves in the Flag and who are not necessarily 'far-right' see in her a figure who is more in touch with them than the smart lawyer image that Mr Obama projects. There are those who despise anyone who is educated and her mistakes and gee-whiz attitude are endearing to them. It's all very superficial, but there are masses of people who only consider appearance.
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Whoa way off.
I mean 86 and 2000 years ago.
It's beer o clock.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
British-ish.
honestly didn't know that, even 2000 years ago? But hopefully you get my point? According to some americans everyone in that area is an Arab.
I'm pro palestine to a point and pro Jewish too, you can be both. It's the leaderships and the small minded hate filled terrorists (on both side) i'm against.
Marbles.
Was trying to be ironic, failing miserably obviously.
I have read that the Jewish and Moslem faiths share the same origins and seperated in a set of brothers, correct me if i'm wrong please, it's the only way i'll learn.
If he/it/she exists i have no doubt gays and muslims are not excluded.
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#20 rwbennett
"The worst part of all of this, is that things have been said and done during this election that brought out issues that we had all hoped died long ago like race, religion and extreme nationalism."
Issues such as race and religion have obviously become relevant to some people, considering this is the first time a black man and a fundamentalist Christian have run for the highest offices in the land.
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98. everyoneiscrazy
The technique of making your allegations and refusing to listen to a reply or a dismissal of them is all too familiar, isn't it?
So that's where they get it from. There were certain prosecutors in a certain regime 70 years ago who behaved just like that. And 50 years ago in show trials . . .
Despicable. ". . .as Bill gained his considerable following, he has also accumulated more than his share of journalism awards".
Now that is something that really does make me ashamed to say I'm a journalist. That really does make me feel sick.
(And squirrelist: but even so I wouldn't have believed that any Fox could be that bad.)
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100, David.
Even Joe Six-Pack desires a future for his children better than his own. Reaching down to the least successful of America mght not be so appealing to those with aspirations. Who wants his class situation to be set in stone?
Surely there are those that Palin appeals to. By the same token there are others who would be insulted by her dumbing down of America.
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78, jcp.
Don't hold your breath. My standards for "hero" are different from yours.
Allmymarbles,
You deserve what you get, you ingrate. You are making me regret that my son, nephew, uncles, brother... defended your freedom as well.
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(((hugs))) to redagast. No problem.
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#32 David
"I do believe the media was pro-Obama and gave Mrs Clinton short shrift"
This is undoubtedly true, but as been mentioned several times in the last few days relating to Obama and McCain, the media report the "NEWS" not the "OLDS".
At the beginning of the primaries Obama was hot news. Hilary, although a woman and therefore objectively interesting in a "glass cieling" way, was old news as an established politcal player and former first lady.
The news was "change" not Bill's Wife for President.
In a way it is sad, as I far preferred Hilary's bolder plan for health care reform. She actually had some more left-leaning ideas than Obama.
As an aside, 230 years after fighting a war to gain independence and end hereditary dynastic rule, why is the USA so fixated on political family dynasties - Kennedies, Bushes, Clintons.
I feel sorry for Hilary that she got sidelined by someone more newsworthy, who it turned out more people thought was also more worthy to be president.
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never mind the fall-out in America - if Obama loses, the fall out will be world wide, and quite possibly nuclear under McCain. This man cares more about being elected than doing good. Thus his big business supporters will play him as a puppet to their will if he is elected - just like they have done with Bush.
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86. At 06:03am on 30 Oct 2008, paul939 wrote:
#71 jcputn5349
Can't you talk something without bringing religion into it? Saying that "We are on the side of god" is not only reckless and irresponsible, it's also dangerous.
"We are not going to convince other people to stand on the side of freedom with us if they have not joined us yet. In fact, they empowered our enemies with their anti-Americanism"
Are you some clone of bush?That was exactly his kind of logic : "Either you are with us or you are with the terrorists."
Bull headed and blind. Which is why you people never learn.
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None of your usual leftist trash talk works anymore. You can't separate me from God. You can't caricaturize me anymore. You can't namecall and get away with it. You can't put me in jail for my thoughts. You want to be leader. Be one. Have a spine. You want Congress, the White House, and the Court. You have to take criticism and deal with people you dislike. Not only that, but you have to make me happy. Where are your "conflict resolution" skills?
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90. At 06:13am on 30 Oct 2008, british-ish wrote:
82. redagast wrote:
jcputn5349
"Whatdya say we bomb anyone who dares to call ol' John boy anything but a war hero."
Stick pins into their effigies!
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There is already an effigy of Gov Sarah Palin hanging by her neck in California. You do not have a clue what you are talking about.
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95. At 06:38am on 30 Oct 2008, british-ish wrote:
"They are the "negotiators" who will sit down with terrorists. Surely, they can find a way to sit down with thought criminals like us."
Very woolly thinking Mr Putin. I really thought you'd grasped the essential elements of the 'left-wing-liberalism' you and one or two others keep attacking some of us for by now.
Dear me no. You really can't expect us to 'sit down' or 'negotiate' with the 'thought criminals' of the far right. Though some of us have, admittedly, been trying to do that for weeks with lamentably little success.
No, I'm afraid it's the re-education camps for you 'thought criminals'. And then a spell in a work unit in one of the chillier parts of Alaska. We'll try to teach you all how to deal with a polar bear that's angry about global warming and the loss of his environment, but you'll have to rely on your powers of persuasion. Definitely no arms.
By that I mean 'no guns'. 'No arms' could well be the outcome of your discussions I fear. But that's the risk people who find it difficult to make friends of others by rational argument instead of threats and fearmongering take, of course.
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You owe me an explanation for why you support the overthrow of my Constitution and the repeal of my Bill of Rights.
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107. jcputn5349 wrote:
There are supposed to be basic standards of decency and politeness on this site which are supposed to be overseen by the moderators.
I won't give you the pleasure of screaming 'censorship' by referring your post to them and I hope, however tempted, no-one else does either. I think it is better that people see your impolitic tirades for the rudery they often are.
Few people (and certainly few of my relations) ever fought in any war to give people the 'freedom' merely to abuse others who do not agree with them. Or to protect that kind of freedom, or perpetuate it.
That kind was a commonplace of the regime my (English) family were fighting against (and, sadly, some of my Italian family were fighting, reluctantly, for.)
Do you ever, ever consider the implications of some of the things you write here?
Are you preparing a CV for Limbaugh's or O'Reilly's jobs?
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#45jcputn5349 wrote:
"If McCain loses, I see a Constitutional crisis and possibly states seceding from the union.
If you don't like the position of your state, you would move to the state with the position you like. You'll end up with states aligned against states. The Pro-freedom states would elect their own president, congress, and establish courts."
La La La La ... wakey wakey.
Yes, you could have a lovely fundamentalist Christian paradise state with no gays or poor people or taxes.
Back in the real world, if a state were to secede, how would you manage for creating a new currency, defence policy (that's easy - attack first), diplomatic relations with other countries and so on ad infinitum.
Let's say Alaska seceded .... economically it has oil and not too many people - good potential.
How long before Russia (Ah can see it from mah window) steps in. Then you'd know what strong government was all about. Or perhaps the Canadians would save you, not wanting the Russians on their border.
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at 111, jcputn5349 writes "Not only that, but you have to make me happy."
no, we don't. nice to see you and people like you squirming - oh, and losing.
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112. jcputn5349
"There is already an effigy of Gov Sarah Palin hanging by her neck in California."
That was my point.
"You do not have a clue what you are talking about."
Instead of being so eager to throw out an insult without thinking, please pay attention. It was reported yesterday that it has been removed.
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There is a post at # 47 from niwus00 which - if genuine - is seriously worrying. This new trend for bandying around different political philosophies as a sort of latterday horror story only goes to show the ignorance of the people perpetuating them.
And David C.
You are inclined to throw in remarks about the past political history of the UK without acknowledging that they are just that - history. Simplistically put, Labour started the country's post war revival in '45 - '50.
By 1979, the faultlines were showing through because the unions had too much power.
Arguably Thatch was right in taking them on and winning - at a terrible cost of unemployment but there were faultlines in her privatisations because they led to too much fragmentation of the services. There is probably a majority who would like the railways renationalised.
It is my view - and I have written this many times on this page - that the valid comparison is not with fifty years ago but with 1997, when Tony Blair won power from an exhausted and fractured Tory party. The Tories threw every scare story in the book at him during that election - saying that he was hiding his true left wing ideology and that he would bleed the country dry with new taxes.
Of course, the scare stories weren't true and Blair led from the centre left and for five years the country was re-invigorated and confident. Harking back to the worthy Attlee and the weird Harold Wilson are not valid comparisons.
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#47 wrote
"I don't want a government that puts a cap on the American Dream.
I don't want a government that tells us what to do and how to think.
I don't want to told I can no longer voice my opinion"
1) the American dream is supposed to be for everyone. Funny how the people who succeed think that if they could do it, then anyone could. There are otherfactors, and poverty is now so entrenched in the USA that social mobility at the lower end of society has stagnated. The world has changed. People need help. Do you want to live in a humane society.
2) Government telling you what to think - the Christian Right would legislate on social issues, irrespective of other peoples opinions.
3) not voice your opinion - where did you get that from. Who is going to curtail free speech?
It's 11th hour madness.
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Obama bemoaning the restraints placed on government in the US Constitution by the founders:
If you look at the victories and failures of the civil rights movement and its litigation strategy in the court. I think where it succeeded was to invest formal rights in previously dispossessed people, so that now I would have the right to vote. I would now be able to sit at the lunch counter and order as long as I could pay for it I?d be o.k. But, the Supreme Court never ventured into the issues of redistribution of wealth, and of more basic issues such as political and economic justice in society. To that extent, as radical as I think people try to characterize the Warren Court, it wasn?t that radical. It didn?t break free from the essential constraints that were placed by the founding fathers in the Constitution, at least as its been interpreted and Warren Court interpreted in the same way, that generally the Constitution is a charter of negative liberties. Says what the states can?t do to you. Says what the Federal government can?t do to you, but doesn?t say what the Federal government or State government must do on your behalf, and that hasn?t shifted and one of the, I think, tragedies of the civil rights movement was, um, because the civil rights movement became so court focused I think there was a tendancy to lose track of the political and community organizing and activities on the ground that are able to put together the actual coalition of powers through which you bring about redistributive change. In some ways we still suffer from that.
end quote
if you are not a baby boomer, I suggest you grab one by the collar and have them translate some code language. It is Marxist rhetoric. This is clear. In Obama's America, Marxists will finally be able to break free of the constraints that were placed by the founding fathers in the Constitution, and in so doing, achieve "social justice" through "redistributive change." Support Obama if you are frustrated as he is that you can't implement Marxism because that nasty US Constitution stands in your way. Chavez declared the same wish for "change" in the US not long ago. Chavez said it is time to "change" the US Constitution. You agree with him? If so, you are my enemy.
And FYI, guess who created and maintained segregation with Jim Crow laws? um, the Democratic Party. Guess who fought them? um, the Republican Party. Now, the party of slavers wants to enslave everybody in socialism with them in control.
The method of takeover comes from China. It works from the ground up with "community organizers" agitating for "change" on the street. The spirit is racist liberation theology; it travelled from SA to America. It's been stamped out successfully in SA thanks to the Catholic Church. "Change" means "redistribution of wealth" and "change" the US Constitution.
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14. MerryCherry wrote:
"Come on U.S.A. you know what to do."
Well with a little luck Obama will finally be seen for what he is and will be rejected. Then,if as you say other places in the world need him, he will be free to run for office in your country and you can subject yourself to his governance. I cannot provide any idea for you of exactyly what that would be as he has never actually run anything in the US. Still, he does promise it will include "change" so that is alright then, isn't it?
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#60 ladycm
"Does the GOP know the definition socialism????"
You know there are a number of highly intelligent Republicans who know exactly what socialism is .... but it's hardly in their interest to share that with their supporters is it?
Much better to use scaremongering dumb-ed down politics of ignorance to play on peoples fear .... fear of what? They don't even know, but boy is it scary! McCarthy - 1950s - reds under the bed.
Peace and timewarps ..... aaarrrggghh
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#66 David
"And why, oh why so many overweight people on display? If you're on a budget, surely food should be one of the first things to consider; I would have thought that the "middle class" poor would have been rather slimmer."
Any dietician could tell you that it is not too much food that makes you fat, but the wrong type of food.
High fat, low nutrition junk food is very cheap in the USA and couple that with needing the education and cooking skills to prepare healthy food, you can see the result.
I am in no way "stoutist", but obesity is a poverty and education issue, and is becoming a major issue in the UK too - check out Jamie Oliver's latest mission in the North of England.
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Absolutely no leadership skills whatsoever is going to really cost you.
What am I doing? We've been trying to talk sense the party of slavery for almost 150 years. They have never listened to us until it is too late.
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117. At 08:01am on 30 Oct 2008, british-ish wrote:
112. jcputn5349
"There is already an effigy of Gov Sarah Palin hanging by her neck in California."
That was my point.
"You do not have a clue what you are talking about."
Instead of being so eager to throw out an insult without thinking, please pay attention. It was reported yesterday that it has been removed.
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I apologize, but am confused The effigy is in California. What has been reported?
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[i]98. everyoneiscrazy
The technique of making your allegations and refusing to listen to a reply or a dismissal of them is all too familiar, isn't it?[/i]
(i don't know what italicizes on this site. let's hope for the best on that one)
i couldn't agree more with this. i don't care if you're far left or far right, you can't say that this isn't bullying in every sense of the word.
jcputn5349:
no one is taking anything away from you; you're being paranoid.
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116. At 08:01am on 30 Oct 2008, seagullblue wrote:
at 111, jcputn5349 writes "Not only that, but you have to make me happy."
no, we don't. nice to see you and people like you squirming - oh, and losing.
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Actually, you do if the party of slavery controls Congress, the White House, and the Courts in a one party rule. You absolutely have to make me happy, and I'm not easy to please. I know the Constution and the Bill of Rights. I'm a proactive citizen who stays involved. The fact that you cannot take criticism is a sure sign that you will fail in leadership, and quickly lose your gains...what am I doing, trying to talk common sense to a Dem again.
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#71 jcputn wrote
"Palin hangs in effigy on the side of a house in California, showing what Dems really think of successful women in the USA etc..."
Please try to avoid ludicrous generalisations if you wish to have a grown-up debate.
Does the fact that a McCain supporter cut her own face and then lied to the police about being attacked by democrats mean that all "Reps" are lying, self-mutilating fantacists? (or do I mean fanatics?)
Do you seriously think that this represents what democrats think of successful women?
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Let the best man win the race, but don't allow fools to decide or influence you. Follow your conscience and conviction.
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#86 paul939 wrote:
"#71 jcputn5349
Can't you talk something without bringing religion into it? Saying that "We are on the side of god" is not only reckless and irresponsible, it's also dangerous. "
Thank you Paul - wise words.
After all Osama BL has "god" on his side as well. As do both the Israelis and the Palestinians.
God is obviously confused, maybe too old for the job (? McCain anyone), so the less god has to do with politics the better.
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115. At 07:58am on 30 Oct 2008,
See my recent previous posts. All of them, please. They apply. Your immaturity not surprisingly is similar to your man-child candidate:
October 29, 2008
Sarkozy calls Obama 'Immature'
by Tzvi Ben Gedalyahu
Democratic presidential candidate Senator Barack Obama's stand on Iran is "utterly immature," French President Nicolas Sarkozy told Israel, according to the Hebrew-language daily Haaretz.
END Quote
I won't give you more because you are still on milk. But, when France is worried the US is going to be vulnerable...
The world is in for hell if O is selected king, and if the Congress and Court is all Dem, there will be no check on their power. It will be an Absolute Democracy with a Socialist economy in it's most mild form; or it will be the United Socialist States of America with a Communist form of government IF O succeeds in changing the US Constitution to allow courts to distribute the bread of wage earners and punish people who exercise their rights enumerated in the Bill of Rights.
However, the party of slavery, segregation, and now socialism will not accomplish any of these "changes" without suffering hell themselves. If McCain wins we'll still have some of the same fights in Congress and in four years.
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Justin,
Truman, hum, a little before my time. Wasn't it FDR that came to the rescue? Not really sure. My British roots date to 17th Century- something about housing the British and then using exterior fence to leave message to rebels. Ed I.had adjusted a previous note from my fav Brit sitcom Map and Lucia: "We shall see what we shall see. " We are what we are and soon may have our noses rubbed in it. I have tired of the arguments for an overindulged fighter pilot and his mindless female attendants. Fortunately, I am white and middle class, married to a person with an EU citizenship. I will continue to fight the American liberal cause until 8 pm Pacific Daylight Saving Time (PDT) on Nov 4. If Obama is successful, I will continue, if not, I do not have to crawl to Canada. I do not understand the arguments based on shallow learning.
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The Clintons are pragmatic and have moved on, so should their supporters. Bill C finally shared a stage with Obama in Florida and said he should be the next President, and Obama praised the former President. The 30 minute commercial Obama had before the World Series laid out his case by showing the lives of many ordinary people. The Phillies then went on to win. A win fans have waited for since 1980. McCain has demonstrated his darker side throughout this campaign and is not what we need at this critical time. No early voting here, but at least one I work with is driving all day and back down South to vote because it is that important.
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Chill robloop.
Its you who are spouting anger. Colin Powell made a pretty level-headed endorsement.
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And # 71. You are nuts or just clueless.
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I am reading a new scary phrase ...."party of slavery" to imply democrats are/were racially prejudiced, and presumably to try to lure away some swing Africa American voters to the Republicans, as the liberators of the great great etc grandparents.
This is history, but still with a spin .... the democratic party was split in the 1850s and 60s, just as the Republicans are split today.
Read this
"The Democratic Party was formed in 1792, when supporters of Thomas Jefferson began using the name Republicans, or Jeffersonian Republicans, to emphasize its anti-aristocratic policies. It adopted its present name during the Presidency of Andrew Jackson in the 1830s. In the 1840s and '50s, the party was in conflict over extending slavery to the Western territories. Southern Democrats insisted on protecting slavery in all the territories while many Northern Democrats resisted. The party split over the slavery issue in 1860 at its Presidential convention in Charleston, South Carolina.
Northern Democrats nominated Stephen Douglas as their candidate, and Southern Democrats adopted a pro-slavery platform and nominated John C. Breckinridge in an election campaign that would be won by Abraham Lincoln and the newly formed Republican Party."
Quote from
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/jimcrow/stories_org_democratic.html
Something else struck me - the republicans were "anti-aristocracy" at the beginning. If they can change into the party that protects the new aristocracy of wealth, then possibly there are not too many pro-slavery democrats left either.
Please stop using this blatant and irrelevant scare-mongering and come up with some proper debate on actual issues.
The straws to be clutched at must be also exhausted.
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Oh-totally aside. If I do decide to abandon the US. Is it safe to sail from Portsmouth to France in a 30ish sailboat?
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#131 jcputn5349
"and if the Congress and Court is all Dem, there will be no check on their power"
Isn't that what happened from 2000-06? Republicans were in power, there were no checks, and they started making wars everywhere. And stop that loony line on socialism and slavery. Slavery ended more than a 100 years back, there is no point in flogging dead horses. What do you know about socialism? I've lived in a socialist state, I know what it is like.
"If McCain wins we'll still have some of the same fights in Congress and in four years"
Or even worse. Wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, possibly Iran and Syria. My, that would be a great accomplishment for McCain.
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#131 jcputn5349
"and if the Congress and Court is all Dem, there will be no check on their power"
Isn't that what happened from 2000 to 2006? Republicans were in power, there were no checks, and they started making wars everywhere. And stop that loony line on socialism & slavery. Slavery ended more than a 100 years back, there is no point in flogging dead horses. What do you know about socialism? I've lived in a socialist state, I know what it is like.
"If McCain wins we'll still have some of the same fights in Congress and in four years"
Or even worse. Wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, possibly Iran and Syria. My, that would be a great accomplishment for McCain.
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#131 jcputn5349 wrote :
"and if the Congress and Court is all Dem, there will be no check on their power"
Isn't that what happened from 2000 to 2006? Republicans were in power, there were no checks, and they started making wars everywhere. And stop that loony line on socialism and slavery. Slavery ended more than a 100 years back, there is no point in flogging dead horses. What do you know about socialism? I've lived in a socialist state, I know what it is like.
"If McCain wins we'll still have some of the same fights in Congress and in four years"
Or even worse. Wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, possibly Iran and Syria. My, that would be a great accomplishment for McCain.
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Comment after watching Obama's informercial :
"Nation Rejoices - The President's Brains Have been Found"
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Dear Mr. Webb,
The article to which you link fails to distinguish between an argument that McCain will (or at least could) win (i.e. a prediction), and an argument that he should win (i.e. a political argument). It misquotes and misrepresents to the point of falsehood (e.g. Biden did not say that Obama would probably not be able to deal with the hypothetical 'testing' to which he would be subjected by international forces). And yet it now appears with the apparent blessing of the BBC. No number of 'we are not responsible for the content of external sites blaa blaa' statements can undo this impression of approval. The same goes for those posts of yours that linked to poor pro-Obama articles (the majority).
What is the point of all this blogging anyway? It seems to be an excuse for journalists to surf the net rather than doing any real journalism. You write poorly, presumably, charitably, because you write in a hurry, although it is difficult to see why you are so hard pressed when you write so little. This entry must have taken you all of two minutes. None of your entries have contained any insight beyond what any interested bystander might come up with, especially if they were paid to surf the internet.
Why do I keep reading you ask? Good question, but that is between me and my shrink.
illywhacker;
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ref #34
I will give you a 4th reason,voters when they reach the polls think to themselves Barack Obama has no resume and his stand on issues do not agree with mine.
It's a fatalistic arrogance that if McCain wins it will destroy the world and there is no way he could win honestly.
The biggest sore losers recently were the 2000 Gore supporters
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#131
Sarko calls Obama immature?
Even if he did
(1) That's a French guy speaking to a Hebrew-language newspaper, with a flip back into English. Ever hear the phrase 'lost in translation'?
(2) The esteemed French president is esteemed mostly in his own eyes. This is the man who famously can't take a joke and has just tried to ban a joke Sarkozy voodoo doll. The judges threw the case out and told him to get back to doing something useful, like, I dunno, running the country.
(3) It comes to something when you're quoting a foreign Socialist leader to try to rubbish a more right-wing American.
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Do you seriously think that this represents what democrats think of successful women?
---------------------------------
Yes, I do. I am heartbroken and fearful for being female after seeing that effigy. It is disturbing and trying to intimidate women from succeeding. It is like a warning that if I become successful after I graduate that is what people want to do to me. The feminists in the Democrat party only represent far left women, not any other kind. They do not speak for all women. They never did, but they always claimed it. We always knew it was a false claim. Now, they can't do that. Also, the Dem Party claimed to be the "working man" party, but they can't say that false claim anymore either. They only represent far leftists from every collectivist identity group in The Party. Look what they do to a working man, Joe. There is no excuse for Dem operatives breaking into gov't records, publishing what his records said, and slandering him just for asking O a question that O answered "incorrectly."
There is a pattern that shows in this election cycle. Anyone from the working or middle class is evil. Only they are divinely anointed to rule over us. They forget that government is a servant, not the other way around.
If Sarah Palin had gone to Harvard instead of a state college the Dems would not have questioned her choice to work and have children, and a multitude of other things. I see the entire overboard smear as sexist. Justin participates in it, too. It is against women, and it offends me.
The Dems cannot imagine that Joe will have any more money tomorrow than he does today. They don't understand patterns of upward mobility. In other words, they see him as just a working man and he'll always be a working man. You can't move out of your birth position in their world. He's looked down upon at the View, the ladies said his dream of buying his boss's business is a "fantasy." Have you ever heard the American Dream scoffed at before? Maybe in your deconstruction literature class, but not in the real world.
There is definitely an elitist snobbery going on. People disagree with T. Jefferson. Common people can be statesman. The last one we had was Ronald Reagan.
In truth, the far leftists have taken over your party. It is not people like me who are extreme. I'm not the one calling for a restructuring of the US Constitution.
A major difference between the Dem and Reps is that Dems measure success by how many are on their welfare lists --dependent on the gov't. Reps measure success by how many are not on the lists--independent and free from gov't control. Dependence = slavery.
It's late, my paragraphs do not have transition sentences of any sort... :)
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RomeStu wrote:
I am reading a new scary phrase ...."party of slavery" to imply democrats are/were racially prejudiced, and presumably to try to lure away some swing Africa American voters to the Republicans, as the liberators of the great great etc grandparents.
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I'm using accurate historical references to define the spirit of the party who now wants to impose socialism on us all. You do not have to worry. Those dependent upon Dem Party will not vote against them no matter how badly they are mistreated. The Dem Party harbors a lot of legitimate guilt about the past that belongs solely to the Dem Party. But, how will they "repair" freedom once they destroy it for everybody today?
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# 137 AmericanfromNW
'Course it is - if you're a competent sailor, have done all your checks on your boat and listened to the weather forecast.
Highly recommended - the grub on the other side is second to none.
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#145
You indeed have a shallow understanding of Jefferson. Palin should have tried Harvard. Do you really think it is ok for her to go on national media knowing little? Have you ever been to Alaska? Have you ever met an Alaska business person?
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#145 jcputn5349 wrote:
"It is like a warning that if I become successful after I graduate that is what people want to do to me. The feminists in the Democrat party only represent far left women, not any other kind. They do not speak for all women"
So Sarah Palin can claim to speak for all women? One who does not support a women's right for abortion? One who claims to see Russia from Alaska? One who does not know the real purpose of the Vice-President? Are "all other women" like Sarah Palin? Nobody questions her choice to work or have children. What does this "far left women" mean,anyway? You mean there are also "centre-left women", "far-right women", "middle woman" etc also?
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#145 jcputn5349 wrote:
"Do you seriously think that this represents what democrats think of successful women?
---------------------------------
Yes, I do. I am heartbroken and fearful for being female after seeing that effigy. It is disturbing and trying to intimidate women from succeeding. It is like a warning that if I become successful after I graduate that is what people want to do to me."
We are in agreement that the use of an effigy is disturbing, but if you are so intimidated by the actions of one person then you need to get some perspective.
This was the action of a single individual - not a whole political party.
If I were a Muslim or Arab in the USA after the way these words were used (incorrectly) by the Republican campaign, then I would have a lot more right to feel intimidated.
Do I hear you decrying the hanging of an Obama effigy at a "Christian" university in California .... read this link. Not too "christian" in my mind.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-09-24-ore-campus_N.htm
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JC Putin 5349 (#124) wrote:
"Absolutely no leadership skills whatsoever is going to really cost you." (I assume from the general context of your other posts that this barb is directed at the Dems.)
So what did you think of Colin Powell's comments the other week in relation to which presidential candidate would make the better leader?
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It doesn't work Paul. If Obama wins, he wants to restructure the Constitution. Nothing of the past or future matters until we secure our
Constitution.
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#29 Habitual Hero correctly pointed out that Billy Ocean wasn't a one-hit wonder but forgot to add the classic "Love Really Hurts Without You". McCain supporters obviously have a flaw in their pop music knowledge as well as their choice for POTUS.
It's downright hilarious that McCain supporters on this blog are improperly attributing quotes to their idol and his bedfellows and referring to hasbeen 70s/80s popstars. I'll buy a pint for anyone who can get in a Boz Scaggs lyric.
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Post #145; jcputn5349 wrote: "Look what they do to a working man, Joe".
They've offered him a tax break.
Did you have a point? If so, what was it?
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#146 jcputn
"I'm using accurate historical references to define the spirit of the party who now wants to impose socialism on us all..... The Dem Party harbors a lot of legitimate guilt about the past that belongs solely to the Dem Party."
Your revisionist view of history is disturbing, in that you now seem to be laying the blame for slavery solely (your word) at the door of the democratic party.
You are confusing the lessons of history, which should be learned, with applying the historic views of organisations to the present time, which is spurious.
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Keep looking Romestu. The National Black Republicans Assoc calls the Dem Party the party of slavery, secession, segregation and socialism for a reason.
----------------------------------
148. At 09:23am on 30 Oct 2008, AmericanfromNW wrote:
#145
You indeed have a shallow understanding of Jefferson.
jcp: Oh really? What writings of Jefferson have you read?
Palin should have tried Harvard.
jcp: you are an obvious elitist.
Do you really think it is ok for her to go on national media knowing little?
jcp: you are an elitist and a sexist.
Have you ever been to Alaska?
jcp: Why do I bother talking to Dems? They have no focus let alone vision.
Have you ever met an Alaska business person?
jcp: I have been a business owner and that makes me more qualified than Obama to be president.
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# 103
One of the neglected contradictions in the ethno/religious persecution by Israel is that
Syrians, Ashkenazim Jews and Palestinians are all in the same genetic group- and different from every other group.
Thus, "us vs. them" arguments have a special irony when based on racial grounds.
___________________
Those who would exclude "God" from these discussions would exclude an important ideological vector.
It is usually a stopper to ask anyone saying "God", to define what he means by the term.
This is unfortunate, for the more reflective could then talk about ideals, values and utopia.
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47. At 03:01am on 30 Oct 2008, niwus00 wrote:
"I have just one plea.
Please rebuild your military.
We saved you half a century ago. The time may come for you to return the favor."
I wondered when some American poster would come out with that old chestnut. USA did indeed enter World War II, but they took their time, didn't they? Britain didn't wait until one of its bases was attacked. Take a look at a map and see the size of Germany compared to the UK. We took on a larger enemy, which is something America has never had to worry about doing. This reached its absurd climax with the invasion of a little Caribbean island, Grenada. The USA was so proud of this mighty feat of arms that a film was made about the preparation for the invasion, starring one of the biggest Hollywood action actors.
There is even a case to be made for saying WE saved YOUR butts. If Germany had won the Battle of Britain, Hitler could have turned all his resources against Russia, and might have won, leaving America somewhat isolated and surrounded.
Remember that the US Ambassador to Britain, Joseph Kennedy, considered America ought to concentrate on building bridges with Hitler so as to reach an accomodation when Britain was defeated by Germany.
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# 150 Romestu
I believe that there was an "Obama" effigy found in Kentucky this week - an area where the historic resonance has very melancholy connotations.
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Re the loon.
"You deserve what you get, you ingrate. You are making me regret that my son, nephew, uncles, brother... defended your freedom as well."
I don't recall freedom being under attack, can you point out the declaration of war or anything.
Unless of course you are talking about Iraq. SO if a country not attacking you or invading you is somehow against your freedom then every country is at it.
But we all know the liberation of Iraq was to liberate a giant lake of oil.
God would not have approved.
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I keep reading about how Sarah Palin has "Mobilized the Conservitive base".
Every time I read the words "Conservative Base" I juxtapose the words "Christian Idiots" and the sentence seems to make more sense.
I'm not saying this for giggles or to be disparaging to Sarah Palin enthusiasts, I say it because I like to make sure that Americas "Conservative Base" is totally seperate in my brain space from the Conservative base in countries a little closer to home.
I think if you compare the Tories in GB and the Republicans in USA you'd be hard pressed to find common ground.
On a left-right political scale:
Labour(UK) ------ Tories (UK)
Dems (US) ------Reps (US)
Labour being In the centre, Tories centre-right with the Dems and the Reps further right.
(This is my opinion based on the so-called "Party Bases".
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God isn't an American. This may come as a shock to some.
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#20: "He won't even prove his citizenship."
1. Obama has allowed a number of news outlets physical access to his Hawaii birth certificate. Fox news sent an FBI man specialized in document falsification. A moderator at Little Green Footballs has seen the certificate. All who have had access to it, have proclaimed the document genuine.
2. Barack Obama's official birth certificate in Honolulu has now been sealed (by a Republican politician by the way). Just think: if there was no such birth certificate, would it be possible to seal it. Since Honolulu has a birth certificate, it follows that Obama was born there.
3. No, there is no constitutional requirement for US presidential candidates to show their original birth certificate to every nut who happens to come along (and who will probably say that that too is a forgery too). Berg was also asking to see Obama's Certificate of Citizenship and Copy of Oath of Allegiance to the US. Do you have those?
The other Berg angle (Obama was adopted by his Indonesian stepfather, so he lost his status as natural born citizen) is indicative of the sort of lawyer Berg is (well, he did believe Bush and Cheney were the actual AUTHORS of 9/11 and wrote letters to foreign governments to have them arrested as terrorists): the nationality law of 1940 he was using explicitly said that people who lost US nationality because of their mother's marriage got it back as if they had never lost it if the marriage was ended and the child had taken up permanent residence in the US before his 25th birthday. The law of 1952 (which Berg should have used!) actually says that such people would be reckoned as never have lost US nationality. Have a good look at the emphasized portion at page 6 in [Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator].
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Again to the loon
"The fact that you cannot take criticism is a sure sign that you will fail in leadership, and quickly lose your gains...what am I doing, trying to talk common sense to a Dem again."
Unless i'm hugely mistaken neither Obama nor Biden read or post on this blog.
who are you directing this too.
also let me be sure if you say something it's criticism, if we do it's lies, slander and insults.
Oh an Marxism? Realy? socialist not crazy enough for you. There hasn't been a proper Marxist since Trotsky and we all knwo what happened to him.
There are some people on this board that frustrate the life out of me, you are not one of them. You i actually pity. It must be very difficult to be you and live in paranoia and fear all your life.
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ScribeSolomon wrote:
10:25pm on 29 Oct 2008
There is a saying in the (Special?) Forces:
"WHEN THE GOING GETS TOUGH
THE TOUGH GET GOING"
McCain has proved himself in war, and now
he is proving in the Presidential elections.
When the chips are down McCain is the
person to turn to. There is sure to be 'light at end of the tunnel' for him.
............
One question, are those Oven Chips?
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JC Putin ~
Once again we have a McCain supporter doing no service to their own cause by wallowing in a misery of their own invention.
In the last hour or so, you have moaned about socialism (false), elitism (false) intimidation of woman (false) far-leftism (false) and reconstructing the constitution (false).
It was George W. Bush who flouted the constitution by allowing and condoning the use of torture.
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Re # 137
Firstly let me say, absolutely love the name, laughed my ass off.
"Love Really Hurts Without You". Damn i thought that was the drifters.
See you learn something new every day!
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I cannot get to all of you in one sitting. This is the last one:
"So Sarah Palin can claim to speak for all women?"
jcp: NOW has always claimed the title, not Gov Palin. NOW has been lying.
One who does not support a women's right for abortion?
jcp: Women who do not abort their babies are women, too. See, the idea of the founders was that states should decide rather than the Supreme Court. Also, it is a violation of civil rights to force pro-life people to finance abortions. And did you know that the population of Blacks is shrinking due to abortion? We feel there is a silent genocide against a minority group perpetrated by the Dem Party. We don't like genocide. Are women who favor genocide speaking for all women?
One who claims to see Russia from Alaska? One who does not know the real purpose of the Vice-President?
jcp: If she were in your party you would be saying the complete opposite things. We all know it.
Are "all other women" like Sarah Palin?
jcp: only the left demands uniformity.
Nobody questions her choice to work or have children.
jcp: Yes, they have, and worse than that. They questioned her judgement because she did not abort Trig.
What does this "far left women" mean,anyway? You mean there are also "centre-left women", "far-right women", "middle woman" etc also?
jcp: on the left are totalitarian statists and as you move to the right on an imaginary line you meet other category names that define the amount of state power you will tolerate in your daily life. On the far right, they favor the limitations set on government by the founders. I cannot help the distortions the left has created for you. You'll have to search on your own if you want to walk in truth. FYI, Bush is not a far right. Most Americans in Pew research claim they are center-right. The further left you go the more away from the Constitution and more extreme the position becomes. To farthest right is where T. Jefferson, John Adams, B. Franklin, and maybe Ronald Reagan, etc, are. Palin seems populist sometimes, which would be completely center. McCain is center-right. Obama is far extreme left with Biden, Pelosi, and Reid. Pelosi is the furthest left of all of them, if you can imagine that. But she is. If she breaths, she will fall off the edge of the line. Maybe she thinks she will become a real goddess in her next life. Hope that helps; I summarized a test from an Am. Gov't class.
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'Famously bad finisher' - are you talking about Obama or the Democrats..? You seem to be talking about Obama... why is he a famously bad finisher..? Take a look at the Obama Vs Hilary poll tracker on the bbc web page, he doesn't finish badly at all...
This is the second slightly incoherent post in a row from you Justin, tho the last one was worse... Can you tear yourself away from your Cherios for more than 30 seconds to do your blog in future..? Your just rubbing our noses in how easy your job is now.
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Enough for today. No comfort for pending American elections. jcputn5349, I spent some time reading your contributions. I think you should spend some time defining "success" as success is so personal. I see a very distinct parallel between Palin and the risk management peeps. Success isn't a game and no one cares but you.
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"man-child candidate"
Sweet jesus he's 48 thats two score and 8 in your time.
Sure he looks after him self but man child?
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Romestu, I wasn't going to do another one. I don't know. I like you. The National Black Republican Association works to counter the revisionist history that the Dem Party made up. Keep searching if you are interested. It's worth your while. Look at source materials, like the party platforms from the beginning of the Republican Party vs the Democratic Party until today. Those records are easy to find.
I got to go...have a nice day.
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"The USA was so proud of this mighty feat of arms that a film was made about the preparation for the invasion, starring one of the biggest Hollywood action actors."
Ah, Heartbreak ridge.
classic
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I'm fed up by all these stories of McCain's "proven leadership qualities".
He's such a poor leader that he's allowing a pair of ignorant and irresponsible lunatics to run around America - in his name - trying to defame his opponent and spread fear and paranoia across the board.
Sarah & Joe could have their own comedy show - the Two Stooges. But then again, you have to be clever to make a career in comedy, so maybe not.
A true leader would have kicked the pair of them into the long grass ages ago and found some decent folks to do his bidding for him.
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#165 The Notting Hill Hammer
"One question, are those Oven Chips?"
Nope, I think McCain would prefer ones from KFC. Preferably french fies.
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"See, the idea of the founders was that states should decide rather than the Supreme Court."
Funny, I thought the woman should decide.
Yet people criticising Palin are sexist.
Do you have sores from dragging your knuckles?
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#156
I have tried to understand the attraction to Palin. Some of my background includes trying to include Alaskan business women... Yes, I'm sure you would assume I am an elitist as I assume women are very capable. My conservative women friends are from well-respected private universities while I and the females I can influence have attended mostly US publicly funded schools. Our excess resources have been devoted to funding chairs for new programs we support. If you have attended a public or even small private university, you may have had the benefit of our efforts. Jefferson believed in a representative government. What have you read that resulted in your "common people" statement?
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I'll just stop trying to reason with jcputn5349. Whatever anybody says, he won't listen to any of them, or he will call upon some obscure logic (read: Bush logic) to counter them. He looks at the world in shades of black and white.
Republicans as the good guys
Democrats as the evil empire (aka the sith)
McCain as GOD himself
Palin as ...I don't know, a shning beacon for all wome?
Obama as Satan himself.
Nancy Pelosi err.. I don't know, but judging by his scathing attacks, you would think she's not even a woman.
Peace.
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Scribe
LOL!!!!Complain about this comment
Reading the rabid left- and right-wing comments on this and other blogs, I find it terribly sad that so many people can form such prejudiced views.
There is an underlying ignorance that seems to border on a refusal to actually THINK.
To the McCain supporters: If Obama is elected, your way of life will not change one bit. Stop for a moment and actually THINK before you panic. Obama is an AMERICAN who believes in the American way of life. You won't become socialists, he is not a socialist despite the ramblings of the GOP leaning media outlets, he is a (small c) conservative as is virtually every American alive. What you think of as his 'socialist' policies are in fact very much 'middle-of-the-road' policies, only slightly left of your own views.
To the Obama supporters: If McCain is elected, ditto the panicking. Your only real worry is the 'trickle down' economic policy which has been shown to fail during a recessive climate (and is questionable even in an expanding economy). Sadly, the economy is everything right now and will be painful in any event. Internationally, don't worry about McCain - the world handled Bush and will handle McCain too, America is rich enough to afford Iraq and Afghanistan for four more years (though a new direction is required to finish it).
So stop panicking, tomorrow will be very much like today, next year will be very much like this year.
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#97:
"But some Arabs do actually have blonde hair, pale skins and even blue eyes."
Er, remember the film Lawrence of Arabia? A Turkish soldier who notices Lawrence's blue eyes (he's hiding his more telling blonde hair under a turban) asks him whether he's Circassian, meaning from the Northern Caucasus.
I think blue eyes occur far more often among Arabs and Turks than blonde hair. Some ethnologists believe blonde hair was a mutation that started geographically in the Baltics or Finland, while blue eyes were a mutation that started more Southerly, on the Northern shores of the Black Sea.
There are two main reasons for some Arabs to have blonde hair:
1) descent from Western Crusaders, some of whom are known to have settled in Lebanon.
2) descent from the millions of Russian, Ukrainian and Polish slaves taken in the Tartar slave raids before Catherine the Great secured Russia's Southern borders (the Tartars on occasion went as far North as Belarus and Eastern Prussia - there are sources suggesting they were lured by the idea of capturing blonde women)
I suppose factor one would be the main origin of blonde hair among Christian Arabs, whereas blonde Muslim Arabs will probably have some Slavic genes as the Slavic male slaves usually ended up in slave galleys and never passed their genes on, unless they converted to Islam.
I do not think these "Nordic" genes were as frequent in Palestine in Jesus' time. So I would be willing to believe Jesus had blue eyes (statistically small chance however), but not blonde hair.
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Re # 178
"I'll just stop trying to reason with jcputn5349"
I'm not trying to reason with him, just trying to see what he comes out with next.
He is actually very entertaining.
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Honestly, if some of the paranoid fantasy I see here and on the right-wing pro-Republican blogs is supposed to be serious, it won't matter who wins.
Are some Republicans actually doing their damnedest to foment hatred of people who hold -- we might as well not mince words any more -- downright fascist opinions and display the same (if not greater) degree of intolerance?
Not one of these writers dares say outright what I really do suspect now is the reason for all this fearmongering and loathing that seems so reminiscent of the 60's. It's the man's colour isn't it?
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Re # 180
Th start with i agree with you , mostly. Not a lot will change. Ther will be no civil war.
However.
"Your only real worry is the 'trickle down' economic policy which has been shown to fail during a recessive climate "
What about Iran or syria? America is almost bankrupt, they cannot afford another 4 years, the global economy, obviously, cannot afford a vroke America.
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Any individual or group who stoops so low as to purge voter rolls, skews votes in favor of one party or another is cowardly. Let me repeat, anyone who endorses or secretly thinks this is an aceptable tactic is a COWARD.
If you say democratic process, have the courage to make it happen, have the Integrity to be fair and honest for both parties.
Any Republican care to say "I want accurate tallies of the voting public?"
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#180
The economy will correct itself, I agree, likely not to the standards we are used to. However, I have already moved to the edge of the continent...
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OK, my answer to the person who still questions Obama's citizenship has been referred, and I do not know whether that is because I mentioned the name of a right wing website (without saying that it was a website) where mentioning Obama's citizenship "problem" now actually gets you banned because they think it is a distracting lie, or because I said something about Mr Berg, or because I provided a link to the relevant text of US law.
Anyone who is interested in what I had to say should just google the following words: evidence US nationality law of 1952.
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jcputn5349, the village idiot of this blog, I'll watch out for your posts in future. #45, and #120
You really have a lot to say about socialism considering you clearly don't know the slightest thing about it, and trying to tie the Democrats to slavery has a certain ring of desperation to it...
The left versus right debate is really a conflict between two different definitions of freedom, a conflict between two basic game theoretic assumptions about the human condition, are we 'selfish or selfless'? The answer is we are both, so a party of the center should best suit us, should be the most likely to win. This, however, does not take into account the cultural ingorances of a society. That is, a party of the extreme right, say the Republicans, can dress themselves up as a party of the center and get away with it because the voters can't tell the difference... and you jcputn5349 clearly can't.
It seems 'Ingorance is strength' for the Republicans, perhaps they should take this on as their new party slogan...
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Sayvine,
Think incontinence ;-)Peace and a good p---
ed
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No180
"Reading the rabid left- and right-wing comments on this and other blogs, I find it terribly sad that so many people can form such prejudiced views."
Maybe I'm wrong, I've certainly seen plenty of rabid right wing posts here but not left wing.
Anyway if you believe that McCain is on a par with Bush how on earth can you accept that the millions of deaths caused by Bushs' tenure of the Whitehouse may continue or be made worse by McCain if he is elected?
This is the fear of us 'rabid lefties'
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To #180. "Internationally, don't worry about McCain - the world handled Bush and will handle McCain too"
Try telling that to the thousands of families caught up in his war in Iraq. I think if you look at some of the numbers, the numbers of children he has orphaned for example, you might change your view. I think it is all to easy for people in the first world to say things like this, but to people involved in these conflicts comments like this are just offensive.
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Ref 183
"Are some Republicans actually doing their damnedest to foment hatred of people who hold -- we might as well not mince words any more -- downright fascist opinions and display the same (if not greater) degree of intolerance?"
When a candidate has nothing to offer his only option is to instill fear and demonize his opponent to influence the opinion and decision of his most radical followers. It is obvious, at least to me, that McCain knows he lost the election and at this point his goal is to avoid a landslide that would tarnish his place in history by rallying the party faithful.
Clearly, both candidates are free market advocates, internationalists, and would do whatever is necessary to protect our national security and interests. I believe it is also apparent that they have both made promises that given our precarious economic situation neither will be able to implement for at least a couple of years.
While I don't have a problem with people supporting policies and values different from mine, I am perplexed by the level of hatred and intolerance that many of McCain's supporters demonstrate.
One of our most cherished traditions has been our ability to accept the will of the majority and work with whomever wins to preserve our way of life and guarantee the security of our country. It is becoming increasingly apparent that the hatred and intolerance of the most radical wing of the Republican party is so intense that they are willing to go to unprecedented extremes to challenge the decision of their fellow citizens even if it means destroying the fabric of our society and the liberties we enjoy.
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Ladycm,
It isn't. The same phenomenon is clearly visible here in Poodleville (Blair's UK)Peace and GMstuff
ed
P.S. How many folk, when confronted by 'food' consciously recognise once-living tissue (Godflesh)?
How many still give thanks?
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#131. jcputn5349
The article you refer to is ridiculous in the extreme and essentially quotes McCain's talking points from each debate.
What the French do not like is a country taking unilateral action, and which candidate is more likely to do that? Obama speaks of rebuilding the world's opinion of America. McCain is still trying to bomb it into submission.
Furthermore, why on earth do you think that France would have a problem with a 'socialist' America? I think there is some kind of basic misunderstanding here about the concept of socialism.
It seems we have found another blank spot in the American education system, somewhere close to the one dealing with Irony.
Absolutely ridiculous.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
183. At 11:30am on 30 Oct 2008, british-ish wrote:
Honestly, if some of the paranoid fantasy I see here and on the right-wing pro-Republican blogs is supposed to be serious, it won't matter who wins.
Are some Republicans actually doing their damnedest to foment hatred of people who hold -- we might as well not mince words any more -- downright fascist opinions and display the same (if not greater) degree of intolerance?
Not one of these writers dares say outright what I really do suspect now is the reason for all this fearmongering and loathing that seems so reminiscent of the 60's. It's the man's colour isn't it?
---------------------------------------
Now, British-ish, you owe me an apology because you jump without knowledge. I voted for a black man in 2000 on the Republican side in the general election. I had to write his name in. But, I did not vote for him because I wanted a Savior--I have one of those-- or because he is black. I voted for him because he believes in life, liberty and Constitutional gov't. He ran again this year in the primaries. He runs every four years--his name is Alan Keyes, but the MSM ignores him because he is not a foaming at the mouth Marxist.
You might think I am fear-mongering until you walk in my shoes. The fear emanates from Marxist rhetoric coming from the Obama campaign, as well as, source materials, such as his senate record in Congress and past statements. My statements are genuinely what I believe. I wasn't wrong in 2000. I'm not wrong now, but I sure wish that I was.
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Hi Justin,
Some fair points made here. When voter fraud happens in the developing world, how Americans go Tut-Tut. Am hardly a fan of Michelle Malkin, but I read this piece with a degree of fascination.
http://michellemalkin.com/2008/10/15/voter-fraud-alert-houseful-of-out-of-state-obama-activists-registered-as-ohio-voters-received-absentee-ballots/
This is happening in Ohio! Imagine what the White House's response would have been to such widespread activity happening in say Indonesia...
If this is their style of democracy and they want to spread it to the wider world! God help us.....! McCain camp has a lot to fear; his predecessors haven't cleaned their own democracy before wanting to spread it elsewhere.
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# 192 ~ Domenick
To add to your argument, it is significant that Obama's half hour television piece last night never mentioned McCain or Palin once.
It was a worthy finale to a truly accomplished campaign.
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Everybody I know is scared. Everybody is whispering it. The fear of Marxism is real because of "spread the wealth around," the transcript from 2001 with O threatening to "change" the US Constitution (read it without anyone else telling you what it says), Chavez said the same thing, O's alliance with domestic terrorist Ayers, Wright's "Not God Bless America, GD America!, O announced he would not wear a flag pin--you have read the list. It's just too many things. Even Pelosi knows we're scared because she tried to "comfort" us. She said something like, "You don't have to be afraid." She sounded like the snake in Jungle Book. "Truussssssssst in meeeee." It didn't help. Only God can save us.
All of you only hear from the left, which according to Pew research is around twenty percent of the population. The rest of us are not leftists.
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23 SamTyler1969 wrote:
"#8
John,
Something moved. I think it was my bowels.
Scatacalogical Sam"
Sam
That was pretty much the meaning I intended, but it can some times be hard to convey heavy irony in print.
I didn't bother watching this famous 'hard to hear' video. Even if one accepts that
[a] the whole of the media are too in love with Obama to investigate this 'scandal' - I don't, or
[b] the Reps are just too darn pure and decent to bother investigating these claims - I don't, you'd have to accept
[c] that the Clintons are such timorous and fearful campaigners that they'd let the nomination be 'stolen' without a word out of them.
Yeah - right.
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# 43 ArthurPutey wrote:
"I've just read that David Tennant will not be returning as The Doctor when normal series transmission resumes after the upcoming movie-length Doctor Who "specials". More to the point, no decision seems to have been made regarding who will be stepping into his shoes to save Earth on a regular basis. I have a suggestion."
As I recall, The Doctor is c 900 years old.
Who'd have thought it? A job that McCain is too YOUNG for?
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#196 jcptn5349
Ahh, you're an Alan Keyes supporter. Say no more.
I don't think we need to continue giving this nutter the time of day, people.
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When John McCain kept on saying stand up, stand up and fight. I started to get worried. In several of his speeches he seemed to think that the US was in world war III and that it would take a man like him to lead the US to victory.... 'against whom?' was the thought that sprang to mind.
he has also mention on several occasions that if Obarma was to get in to the white house that the states of Israel would fall...don't get that at all either. Israel has enough fire power to defend it self without the assistance of the US. Maybe he was thinking on future military contracts....maybe
What about Barack Obarma, well he younger, with a confidence that attracts interests...allot of interest from people. his rallies are well attended. His policies sound good when he describes them. And the feeling i get is if a situation was to present itself he will have plenty of advisers to rely on to make the tough decisions. And i think he will have a busy, very busy time on mending bridge with other countries as well getting America back on its feet.
There is a saying we have over here in the UK, 'Comuth the moment, comuth the man' I think that apt for person known as 'The one'
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# 32 David_Cunard wrote:
"Should Mr McCain win next Tuesday, there will doubtless be a postmortem about the wisdom of not selecting her as the Vice-presidential candidate. Much earlier I wrote on this blog that Mr Obama could not win without Mrs Clinton, not considering then that Mrs Palin would be brought in to rally the Republican troops. Whatever one's opinions of her, she certainly has shaken up the electorate and should she become the vice-president, I think Mr McCain will assume his office because of her. On the other hand, should McCain be defeated, she might, similarly, be at least a part of the reason."
If I read this right - if McCain wins, it's due to Palin? But if he loses, it's also - partly - due to Palin?
Mmmm. I'm sorry, but the words 'bets' and 'hedging' do rather spring to mind.
;-)
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Check out his spoof site with the news item:
News
That's probably what the republicans are saying around right now.
jcputn5349, are you reading this?
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I'm losing the will to live with some of the posters here.
For the UK readers, remember Enoch Powell's 'rivers of blood' speech? Dire consequences were prophesied as a result of racial integration, to the point where Britain would, by the end of the 20th century, be overrun by immigrants, and there would be the very real possibility of civil unrest. Britain would essentially cease to exist as a world power, according to the lovable cuddly Mr Powell, who managed to prove that one can be hugely intelligent AND remarkably stupid at the same time.
There are distinct parallels between Enoch's speech and the more doom-laden and paranoid fantasies being posted up both here and in the right-wing press.
But whoever wins, the world will keep turning. The reality is, of course, that in strict policy terms, there's not a huge gap between them anyway, and neither of them will have the funding to make massive changes (in healthcare, for example) even if they wanted to.
There will not be fighting in the streets, no-one will secede, and after a few months we'll all have to agree that Obama's neither as good nor as bad as we thought (depending on which side you voted, obviously).
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# 37 SamTyler1969 wrote:
"Lets cut through all the BS. McCain has not done a single thing to define what he would do. He said 'I am not George Bush. If you wanted to run against him you should have run 4 years ago'/If Johnny M had a pair he would have run against him 4 years ago. McCain has only said what he isn't. No leadership, no vision."
I read somewhere recently - could even have been here - that after 2000, McCain did plan to run against Bush in 04. However 9/11 put the kibosh on that.
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jcputn5349
You truly frighten me.
Brainwashing is alive and well I see.
Bonkers.
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Yeah! Right!Peace and Chips
ed
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jcputn5349
Stop mentioning God! He doesn't exist and if he did why would he help you and not anyone else?
Why are you so special? Why are zealots like you so hateful?
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#199 jcputn5349 wrote:
"Everybody I know is scared. ......
..... Only God can save us."
You need to meet more people.
Pray if you like - it is your right in a free country, but you can't ignore issues like healthcare, education, poverty etc etc .... or is it that the poor just don't have enough faith?
Peace (really I mean it - I want you to know peace, because you may explode soon)
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SO MUCH FOR 30 MINUTES OF PURE UNADULTERATED SPIN
WASHINGTON AP - Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama was less than upfront in his half-hour commercial Wednesday night about the costs of his programs and the crushing budget pressures he would face in office.
Obama's assertion that "I've offered spending cuts above and beyond" the expense of his promises is accepted only by his partisans. His vow to save money by "eliminating programs that don't work" masks his failure throughout the campaign to specify what those programs are—beyond the withdrawal of troops from Iraq.
A sampling of what voters heard in the ad, and what he didn't tell them:
THE SPIN: That's why my health care plan includes improving information technology, requires coverage for preventive care and pre-existing conditions and lowers health care costs for the typical family by $2,500 a year.
THE FACTS: His plan does not lower premiums by $2,500, or any set amount. Obama hopes that by spending $50 billion over five years on electronic medical records and by improving access to proven disease management programs, among other steps, consumers will end up saving money. He uses an optimistic analysis to suggest cost reductions in national health care spending could amount to the equivalent of $2,500 for a family of four. Many economists are skeptical those savings can be achieved, but even if they are, it's not a certainty that every dollar would be passed on to consumers in the form of lower premiums.
THE SPIN:I've offered spending cuts above and beyond their cost.
THE FACTS: Independent analysts say both Obama and Republican John McCain would deepen the deficit. The nonpartisan Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget estimates Obama's policy proposals would add a net $428 billion to the deficit over four years and that analysis accepts the savings he claims from spending cuts. The nonpartisan Tax Policy Center, whose other findings have been quoted approvingly by the Obama campaign, says: Both John McCain and Barack Obama have proposed tax plans that would substantially increase the national debt over the next 10 years. The analysis goes on to say: "Neither candidate's plan would significantly increase economic growth unless offset by spending cuts or tax increases that the campaigns have not specified.
THE SPIN: Here's what I'll do. Cut taxes for every working family making less than $200,000 a year. Give businesses a tax credit for every new employee that they hire right here in the U.S. over the next two years and eliminate tax breaks for companies that ship jobs overseas. Help homeowners who are making a good faith effort to pay their mortgages, by freezing foreclosures for 90 days. And just like after 9-11, we'll provide low-cost loans to help small businesses pay their workers and keep their doors open.
THE FACTS: His proposals the tax cuts, the low-cost loans, the $15 billion a year he promises for alternative energy, and more Cost money, and the country could be facing a record $1 trillion deficit next year. Indeed, Obama recently acknowledged—although not in his commercial—that: "The next president will have to scale back his agenda and some of his proposals."
___
THE SPIN: "I also believe every American has a right to affordable health care."
THE FACTS: That belief should not be confused with a guarantee of health coverage for all. He makes no such promise. Obama hinted as much in the ad when he said about the problem of the uninsured: "I want to start doing something about it." He would mandate coverage for children but not adults. His program is aimed at making insurance more affordable by offering the choice of government-subsidized coverage similar to that in a plan for federal employees and other steps, including requiring larger employers to share costs of insuring workers.
___
THE SPIN: "We are currently spending $10 billion a month in Iraq, when they have a $79 billion surplus. It seems to me that if we're going to be strong at home as well as strong abroad that we've got to look at bringing that war to a close." These lines in the ad were taken from a debate with McCain.
THE FACTS: Obama was once and very often definitive about getting combat troops out in 16 months (At times during the primaries, he promised to do so within a year). More recently, without backing away explicitly from the 16-month withdrawal pledge, he has talked of the need for flexibility. In the primaries, it would have been a jarring departure for him to have said merely that "we've got to look at" ending the war. As for Iraq's surplus, it's true that Iraq could end up with a surplus that large, but that hasn't happened yet.
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#196, jcp
"the fear emanates from Marxist rhetoric coming from the Obama campaign"
Do me a favour, point me to anything that Obama says which specifically references Marx? Or even something which doesn't mention Marx by name but is a recognisably and distinctly Marxist act/policy/stance/ideology.
If you CAN do this (something direct from either Obama or his campaign literature, mind you, not just a link to a mad blogger) then I'll apologise to you and donate $1000 to a charity you nominate.
If you CAN'T do this, then I'd ask you stop posting that Obama's a Marxist.
Does that seem fair?
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jcputn5349
"All of you only hear from the left"
Yeah, right, you should see the commie propaganda Fox News is putting out these days!
Seriously, jc-whatever, don't go out without your tinfoil hat, and WATCH OUT FOR BLACK HELICOPTERS!!!!!!
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#68:
Well, there may well be a late October/November "surprise", but my guess is it won't be a Bin Laden video. At least not one made by him. It will be a video of Bin Laden in chains, released by the Pentagon, as they announce they've finally caught him (which they did years ago, of course, but have been waiting for the right moment to announce it).
Could just fool enough voters into voting republican on the grounds that they're obviously winning the war on terror and that Obama is only one letter different from Osama.
Or failing that, they could just fall back on rigged voting machines.
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The Obama infomercial really bothers me. Where did he get that much money? Who owns him?
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John McCain has about as much in common with Harry Truman, as apples do to oranges -- HT is completely antithetical to JM, emotionally, morally, ethically, and politically.
JM is just another in a loooonnnngggg, long line of sock-puppet mouthpieces for the interests of Big Biz.
His "heroism" is dubious at best, and obscene in its self-promotion, his rash and irrational judgment is obvious for all to see (as in Sarah Palin as his VP pick, among many, many others), he operates in a moral vacuum, and his political leanings are more along the lines of 19th century social-Darwinism (or the Spanish Inquisition, where Sarah Palin is concerned).
Unfortunately, it's been so long since the US had a prez who could speak in complete sentences, we've forgotten what it's like to have someone who can actually think.
I think that's the media's problem, too.
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Ref 198
I was very impressed with the substance and tone of Obama's 30-minute speech. He addressed all the critical issues that currently afflict our society, highlighted examples of the problems that many Americans are enduring - from foreclosures to job losses to healthcare - offered a high level blueprint of how he plans to address those problems and, most importantly, he did it in a positive way without resorting to negativism and personal attacks against his opponent or the incumbent.
The contrast between the two campaigns at this late stage of the presidential campaign reflects the values and confidence of the candidates; one conveys hope and a clear vision of the future, the other comes across as a hateful person spewing venom and distortions of the truth with nothing to offer in terms of solutions.
The horrible GOP ad that show images of Ahmadinejad, Chavez, WWII battleships apparently heading towards the Hudson River, and marching Islamic troops ready to head for Pennsylvania Avenue interspersed with black and white pictures of Obama became trivial when I watched their latest ad this morning in which they show pictures of Obama and 9/11. Hopefully enough Americans will watch the latter because if they do I suspect they will be so sickened by the trivialization and exploitation of one of the most tragic events in our history that I doubt McCain will be able to carry his home State.
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#202
I believe that Keyes threw his daughter out a few years ago because she's gay.
Presumably she's been possessed by the devil, and some retraining by his church will make her realise that all she needed was a nice man to satisfy her. After having evil spirits cast out of her, obviously.
Nice guy.
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# 199
Putin darlin'
Well get yourself out there any campaign for McCain and Palin if you feel so strongly about it. Stop wasting your time on a BBC website, where some of us don't have votes and the rest have already voted.
You are only making yourself more and more unhappy - and that's not good for you.
Especially as most people who use this site have the knowledge and experience to know the difference between a load of unrelated scare stories and a political philosophy.
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Please do not be so flippant with this "finish" This is serious business to retain our democracy and respect in the world/ We need the most intelligent creative compassionate leadership we can find. Only one candidate fills that requirement and most of my fellow citizens pray that he wins, as does the rest of the world. We cannot survive the possibility of a "hockey Mom" on the other ticket. The United States is floundering morally in an illegal war and thieves in our financial markets. We are "on the ropes" and need to face up. and assume responsibility by electing Barack Obama who clearly states it is not going to be easy to get our country back in the right direction, but by working together, we can!
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Obama on the Daily Show - Hilarious!
Peace and a sense of humour
ed
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#4 McCain has proved himself in war, and now he is proving in the Presidential elections.
And when the only tool you have is a hammer (even if it's a very expensive nuclear-powered hammer) every world problem looks like a nail.
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196 jcputn5349 wrote:
"He runs every four years--his name is Alan Keyes, but the MSM ignores him because he is not a foaming at the mouth Marxist."
I had meant to ask why on earth does anyone bother responding to Mr Putin's demented ravings, as it only encourages him to respond at great and tedious length.
But I had to respond to this one
If Keyes - who runs every 4 years - is ignored, perhaps it is because he is in fact a a foaming at the mouth Republican. Like Mr Putin.
[As a matter of interest, he's also African-American. So, logically speaking, if Powell only backed Obama because HE'S African-American, how come he never backed Keyes?
Put off by the foam, I dare say.]
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A quibble with Justin Webb and the current post. I don't know what time zone is in, but did Webb write his post about "the famously bad finisher" before he had viewed the best political broadcast ever made ?
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Obama with Charlie Gibson
Well worth watching
Peace to all
ed
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ref #185
As an independent I want fair voting.
Which is why you should be outraged by the blatant voter fraud of Acorn.
www.foxnews.com
Why are so Obama supporters unconcerned that people who are not eligible to vote in a certain state might do so.
The Ohio Secretary of State has made her states votes suspect unless either canidate has a resounding victory
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Ref 199
May I suggest you check under your bed before you go to bed at night to make sure there are no commies hiding there; but before you do please check behind the bushes in your yard as there are liable to be Nicaraguan Contras or Grenadians ready to take over your neighborhood, not to mention a few Islamic Supermen from planet Krypton poised to destroy the city where you live.
As for the 20% of "lefties" that are opposing the pseudo majority of "righties", if the latest polls are close to reality that only conclusion we can reach is that they have multiplied like rabbits, which suggests a Marxist conspiracy carried out by socialist pharmacies handing out free samples of Viagra to their bethren.
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Deeperwell,
Seconded.Peace and sanity
ed
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jcputn5349,
Your keen intellect and flawless logic has persuaded me.
I have seen the light.
Hallelujah!
I'm switching my vote to McCain.
I am indebted to your infinite wisdom.
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#199
Everybody I know is scared. Everybody is whispering it. The fear of Marxism is real because of "spread the wealth around," the transcript from 2001 with O threatening to "change" the US Constitution (read it without anyone else telling you what it says), Chavez said the same thing, O's alliance with domestic terrorist Ayers, Wright's "Not God Bless America, GD America!, O announced he would not wear a flag pin--you have read the list. It's just too many things. Even Pelosi knows we're scared because she tried to "comfort" us. She said something like, "You don't have to be afraid." She sounded like the snake in Jungle Book. "Truussssssssst in meeeee." It didn't help. Only God can save us.
All of you only hear from the left, which according to Pew research is around twenty percent of the population. The rest of us are not leftists.
.........................................................
I don't think you need god to save you, just a healthy cynicism towards the rightwing propaganda.
Only in the USA would a politician who has suggested taxcuts for 95% of the population be accused of raising taxes. Only in the USA would someone completely in favour of free enterprise and the "American Dream" be accused of being a communist or socialist. Only in the USA would a Christian native born citizen be accused of being a Muslim foreigner. Only in the USA would a man who has publicly stated his strong support for Israel be accused of being in cahoots with palestinian "terrorists"
The right is running scared and throwing every crazy accusation that they can at Obama. Most Americans know the right is lying. They want change. They want Obama. So does the rest of the world. The only group outside the USA that favours McCain is Al Qaida.
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So it seems to be true; there is an inverse relationship between the likelihood of a McCain victory and the hysteria level of the rhetoric posted here by his supporters, assuming they are pro-McCain and not just anti-Obama.
Also is it just me or when Obama is trying to persuade voters to support him he largely talks about Obama, and when McCain is trying to persuade voters, he also winds up talking mostly about Obama?
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#183 british-ish
Numerology and the study of ancient texts reveals ALL !
"jcptn5349" shows his real character in his name.
"j" is often represented by "i".
Ancient Hebrew texts frequently omitted vowels.
His name, therefore, reads as "I see Putin" - and if he can see Putin, he must be a RUSSIAN and a COMMUNIST !
Taking the numeric equivalents of the letters in his name and adding them to 5+3+4+9 gives 105 - the 0 is omitted and 1+5 = 6.
Posting 3 times gives 666 - THE MARK OF THE BEAST !
HE IS A RED SQUIRREL !!!!!!
MY LOGIC IS IRREFUTABLE !!!!!
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# 209 ~ Ed
"When the chips are down McCain is the person to turn to"
Not, apparently, in Spain where he allegedly crashed his plane (yet another plane) and managed to put out all electricity in half the country.
No wonder McCain gets shifty when asked if he would meet the Spanish Prime Minister, who may well have a childhood memory of the night that the lights went out and his bathtime was cold.
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There is s.th. surreal and chilling in watching huge hypnotised crowds demanding the destruction of the very foundations of country and its success and exceptionality. Vae victis.
Having grown up in an easteauropean commie country, I have witnessed first hand how easily people give up their rights freedoms for basic, low-quality govn't services and welfare. Once introduced, such "rights" are virtually impossible to repeal, and the populist dictators who introduced them are remembered fondly, and lauded unconditionally, by strings of generations. The same system is in use in social-dem EU, Venezuela, IL, MI, LO. The problem with the socialist socio-economic model is, as Thatcher famously said, that there comes a day when OPM is over. And the other problem is, that "the masses" realise the economic, social, and moral unsustainability of the model after a few decades of "bright future", "hope", "change", and other abstract intangibles.
Obama, in my opinion, will win. His socio-political task will be to create in a short term a huge segment of welfare addicted dependents (the "tax cuts" welfare cheques, the quasi-universal healthcare, the Second Bill of Rights, etc) that will perpetuate the left in office. The IL/MI/Venezuela/EU model is the US future. The process will be more or less irreversible.
Free enterprise will be kept in check through facilitating unionisation, govn't regulation, taxation, and litigation. The remnants of free speech in MSM will be shut down through the Fairness Doctrine, quasi-/self censorship, personal smear attacks, etc. It is important to understand, that every leftist has a totalitarian streak. That streak stems from the fact that the majority does not embrace easily futile and unattainable abstractions like "social justice", "fight against poverty", "equality", etc. Hence the need to force these abstractions on the majority.
The US economy may expect: higher unemployment; slow GDP growth and prolonged recession; lower business and household investment through destimulating taxation (substantial cap gain tax increase), further hampering GDP growth; app. $1 trillion deficit increase as Obama will push with the welfare reforms.
Americans, from the True North, I lament your socialist future. You left the world without a beacon.
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#212 Icetayao:
"SO MUCH FOR 30 MINUTES OF PURE UNADULTERATED SPIN"
It was a paid political commercial so what else would you expect it to be? And to paraphraes what my mother says every time my dad complains about what's on TV, if you don't like it, don't watch.
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#47 niwus00
My oh my! Did everyone read his/her post?!
To paraphrase Mel Brooks: I hope there are children here to read that post because, not only is it complete gibberish, but it also explains much of what is wrong with American politics.
It completely lacks logic and rationality!!
Niwus00 - Just take a deep breath and relax. In four years time you be wondering what the fuss was all about and that how little has actually changed!
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The anti-socialist, anti-communist rant being regurgitated here is simply taking its cue from the Birchers from the 1960s, which believed that the Civil Rights Movement had a number of communists in important positions and opposed the 1964 Civil Rights Act in the belief that it was in violation of the Tenth Amendment to the United States Constitution and overstepped the rights of individual states to make laws regarding civil rights.
It is a fanatical rant that evokes out and out paranoia from a twisted preoccupation that the U.S. government is or soon will be controlled by a furtive conspiratorial cabal of internationalists, greedy bankers, and corrupt politicians, and that if left unexposed, the traitors inside the U.S. will betray the country's sovereignty to the United Nations for a collectivist New World Order managed by a one-world socialist government.
It opposes the United Nations, free trade and the teaching of evolution, for instance, which it considers heresy.
It casts liberals as the secret communist traitors who provide cover for the gradual process of collectivism, including wealth redistribution, economic interventionism, socialism and communism, or marxism, with the ultimate goal of a one-world socialist/communist government.
General elections don't usually bring them out, but I guess they are feeling emboldened by the tone of the McCain campaign.
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Simply Brilliant!, and articulate young folk
Peace and Hope
ed
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OMG ~ we have another two deliciously clashing posts.
Romestu advises Putin that "she will explode soon" and along comes Icey - shouting in explosive capital letters - giving us all the benefit of his latest e-mail instructions from the loony tunes HQ.
Sorry Icey. Obama's broadcast was seriously good - and the fact that he talked about the American people and not about McCain and Palin made it even better.
Why don't you e-mail my comments back to basecamp and see what they have to say about that.
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#216 EvanAustinLee wrote:
"The Obama infomercial really bothers me. Where did he get that much money? Who owns him?"
Who owns him? What are you implying here.
The donations are a matter of public record. Millions of ordinary Americans cared enough to write lots of small cheques. Obama is more of a man of the people than any candidate in US history.....
.... or are they all deluded fools, with only the wingnuts knowing the sinister truth?
Peace
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"Conservatives" Open Your Eyes. Obama receives support and money from the people, and from the likes of Warren Buffett and Colin Powell, because he is smart and reasonable. Internationally McCain has no support - the world is afraid of the GOP and with Obama in office they will look to him in this world wide econ crisis. They will run from and shun a McCain-Palin administration and the US will go down.
As for income taxes and "socialism" for petes sake the US has had a graduated income tax for forever...duh. Bush established toady tax cuts for the wealthy that need to be undone. No matter who get in the taxes are going to go up, its just whether the working man gets his back broken or not. Obama says no more cuts for oil. Here's why:
CNN 10/30/08 "Exxon Mobil Corp. set a quarterly profit record for a U.S. company today, surging past analyst estimates, CNNMoney.com reports. Exxon Mobil, the leading U.S. oil company, said its third-quarter net profit was $14.83 billion, or $2.86 per share, up from $9.41 billion, or $1.70, a year earlier. "
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From an old Reagan ad-maker But yet another who has switched sides...
Peace and bi-partisanship
ed
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When Truman won, despite the polls awarding the election to Dewey, the science (sic) of polling was young. The sample was taken from a telephone directory, in other words from those who had telephones. They were not a good sample of the wider population in those days. [See basic journalism or media textbook, somewhere therin.]
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Post #216; EvanAustinLee wrote: "The Obama infomercial really bothers me".
I haven't seen it, and I'm not sure that I will. Sure he's a nice guy and all, but I'm not sure if I can handle half an hour of him in one sitting. :P
"Where did he get that much money?"
The American voting public. Unsurprisingly.
"Who owns him?"
The American voting public. And let's face it, they have a right to own him, since it looks like he's going to be their next president.
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~ 216
Evans writes that he doesn't know where Obama got the money from for his 30-minute broadcast.
He got it, Evans, from all the supporters who have sent it to his campaign to be used because they want to get him elected.
And, as confirmation of their faith in him, he used it wisely and well - he talked to the American people about their own lives, he talked about his own family and the experiences it has given him - and a few other people - respected holders of high office - confirmed what they have said time and again about why they believe in him.
He never once mentioned McCain and Palin amd he never criticised their campaign.
He laid himself before the American people as a leader. The "undecideds" can now make their choice - a leader with a strong vision or the alternative - who himself reminded us about "the other one"
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184. At 11:32am on 30 Oct 2008, everyoneiscrazy
Exactly, except America is bankrupt.(more ways than one), and we can not afford the wars we are in nevermind new ones.
Is not the fear of an attack on Israel real after Obama receive his post,. what would his response, by opinion be. I do not know, but he has said if the choice is to be made he will side with..?
I think this may have been what O'biden was speaking of where he stated that the people of America may not understand thier position... but it is the 'right' thing to do.
just speeches,.. just words
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
12. At 10:59pm on 29 Oct 2008, Cambodiacalling wrote:
There is clearly a flight of Republicans deserting McCain for Obama
What true Republican would vote Obama over McCain........ even if they do not vote for McCain I refuse to believe any REAL Republican would vote for the most inexperienced, blioviating arrogant junior senator who should stick to community organising instead of running to be President.
As for Colin Powells endorsement the man is plainly bitter and lost the plot !
As an Ex Military officer (and So am I) I am disgusted that Powell, who would not send troops in to battle with a inexperienced leader, yet he recommends the same to be Commander in Chief, the only qualification Obama harps on about for his making a good C in C, is that he remembers his grandfather fought in WW2........ some qualification.
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ref #216
A question not a complaint or critiscm.
Since MSNBC is a news network (at least they claimed to be) Don't they have to give McCain equal time?
I've never heard of an informercial being on a cable news network.
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"If you don't like it, don't watch."
Similarly, if you don't understand, ignore. If you don't know, don't learn.
Here's to education!
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http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/10/30/joe-the-plumber-to-team-up-with-mccain-thursday/#comments
Joe the plumber to appear with McCain today!
McCain should avoid this fool like the plague. He can't win this election by appealing to the core vote. Look at the way independents in New Hampshire have rejected this strategy
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# 235 ~ Peterib
One question.
Do consider that the past eight years of President George W. Bush have been a beacon ?
If yes, please tell us more.
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238. At 2:08pm on 30 Oct 2008, peterdough wrote:
"It is a fanatical rant that evokes out and out paranoia from a twisted preoccupation that the U.S. government is or soon will be controlled by a furtive conspiratorial cabal of internationalists, greedy bankers, and corrupt politicians,"
Well, they were right about the last two!
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I hope none of you guys come from Richardson Texas
Michelle I would understand - but Palin?
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80%,
I may be wrong, but I think he didn't crash that one, but just brought down some wires (big ones), probably while engaging in some 'harmless fun' stunt....Peace and harmless fun (at taxpayers' expense)
ed
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Ed - kIng of the videos.
You have never put up the haunting Willi.i.am vid on this site which has just been awarded first prize in the video stakes.
A serious runner up was my beloved Misbarack (One Day More) which - for my money - should be put up on this site every single day.
Lots of love to nice Ed xxxxx
from Angus and me
- and even Miss Piggy - TELL THE FROG TO GET ON WITH IT !
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"Which is why you should be outraged by the blatant voter fraud of Acorn." MagicKirin
The fraud, such as it was, was practised on ACORN, and would not have led to a single ineligible voter voting.
I suspect you know that as well as I do.
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jcputn539 (#152), the US Constitution is secured by the difficulty of making amendments. Even if Obama wanted to amend it (which he doesn't), the President has not power to do it and it cannot be amended without a broad consensus.
A far more real danger is the problem of a President exceeding his Constitutional authority with the Congress being unwilling to do anything about it.
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you know, I really dont get it. I can never understand how so many can be scared into voting for or against anyone. I really cant understand why fear is such a useful tool in american politics right now.
All this talk about armageddon or the end of the world if obama wins is riduculous, ive probably heard it at the end of every election campaign. If Bush wins the world is gonna suffer or end, if clinton wins its over and so on.
Really you guys give the white house a little too much credit. its still a democracy, if you dont like the guy in power u can reject him in 4 years and he will be history. I havnt heard any candidate openly challenge democracy yet.
Every 4 years politicians come up with something new to scare their base against the next guy, at one point its accusing people of being un-patriotic, this year its socialism of all things and people fall for it.
Then the politicians themselves convene in washington and sits right beside the same guy that they told you to fear, shake his hand and share a few laughs. Who is the sucker in this picture? Not them, i can tell you that.
Yesterday on larry king , king asked mccain if obama is a socialist his answer was 'No' , then McCain, why are you telling people he is a socialist? fear?
yesterday mccain asked about 'spreading the wealth'
from the transcripts I copy:
" KING: Concerning spreading the wealth, isn't the graduated income tax spreading the wealth? If you and I paid more so that Jimmy can get some for him, or pay for a welfare recipient, that's spreading the wealth.
MCCAIN: Well, that's spreading the wealth in the respect that we do have a graduated income tax. That's a far cry from taking from one group of Americans and giving to another. I mean, that's dramatically different.
"
BUT that is what a graduated income tax system does , right?
SO i guess what Obama is suggesting is not much different from what we have in place then, so I suppose the current economic system is and has been socialist for some time.
I cant respect a candidate who spends more of his limited time bashing his opponent instead of promoting himself and his ideas. It just shows that the candidate himself has little good things to say about himself or very little things of interest to offer to voters.
When you vote, vote for the issues, whatever that may be, but do your own research and dont listen to the lies coming out of the horses mouth trying to scare you into doing what they want you to do, because at the end of the day its you that is left with the 700 billion dollar bill not them.
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@#20 rwbennett
Obama had verified his citizenship, and its out there for anyone to see, on independant, unbiased websites around the globe.
If the Republicans really thought he was a foreign national, don't you think they would do everything they could do prove it and discredit him? Not that it matters anyway, he's as American as the next guy. That law is in place to prevent people who've lived outside the States for years from running.
A quick google search brings up dozens of links to the Hawaiin certificate (and these dispell the lies put about by racists claiming it falsification).
Its a pretty difficult thing to bribe or threaten your way around the officials that keep these records without something getting out. The matter is considered closed and has been for some time by all serious journalists, democratic and republican alike.
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jcputn5349 (#199) wrote: "Everybody I know is scared."
Maybe he needs to associate with a different class of people.
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#249 bluepaddy13
Presumably "REAL Republican"s only live in "REAL America".
Kansas sounds like a good start to find it, then follow the yellow brick road, follow the yellow brick road ...........
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#250 Magickirin:
"A question not a complaint or critiscm.
Since MSNBC is a news network (at least they claimed to be) Don't they have to give McCain equal time?
I've never heard of an informercial being on a cable news network."
Good question Magic, running it as a 'news item' would be stretching things so yes they probably should offer McCain the air time. Only proviso is if Obama paid for the time on MSNBC then McCain should pay the same.
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246. At 2:33pm on 30 Oct 2008, eightypercent wrote:
~ 216
Evans writes that he doesn't know where Obama got the money from for his 30-minute broadcast.
He got it, Evans, from all the supporters who have sent it to his campaign to be used because they want to get him elected.
WRONG, we do not know where he got it all from, its been proven that 100's of these online payments have no verifiable address to confirm, or names of people contributing are fictious, and there is a belief that a lot of the contributions are illegal, coming from overseas, which is contrary to the rules and regulations pertaining to campaign funding.
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#239 Cyril
Joe the plumber to appear with McCain today !
This is becoming far more than just a joke.
The republican nominee for the Presidency can only find social misfits to appear on his platform.
Isn't there anyone at all out there in the mainstream of American life and politics who will be seen with him ?
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Majik,
For equal pay? Does Coca Cola get equal time for Pepsi commercials?Peace and soft drinks
ed
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Also if anyone doubts the unbelievable amount of Media bias in favor of Obama just look at the LA Times despicable behavour
They have an incriminating tape of Obama and his REAL attitude towards Isreal.
According to the LA Times they are not publishing it (since when does a newspaper not print a hot story they have??) because according to them they need to protect their source.......... explain to me, WHAT did the source give it to them for then ??........ the excuse is unbelievable, I think the FEDS need to step in and confiscate it from them and have it published, the LA times obviously does not want to publish it because it will hurt their darling
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Which is more deplorable, a 3 minute robo-call you can hang-up and avoid, or a 30 minute hijacking of the television airwaves?
Having scooped a record $450 million in campaign contributions, after going back on his word to work within public funding limitations, just who is the candidate beholden to?
Is it appropriate in a struggling economy, to ask workers to take the day off? Even when the election in the bag (ACORN's bag)?
Anyone who thinks there's change coming... better hold on to your wallet. It's going to change.
But closing on a positive note: The Europeans will respect us so much more.
"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war" William Shakespeare
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#250 MagicKirin wrote:
"Since MSNBC is a news network (at least they claimed to be) Don't they have to give McCain equal time?
I've never heard of an informercial being on a cable news network."
An interesting question - in Europe TV party political broadcasts are strictly rationed.
I do not know the laws governing this in the USA, but since it was a "paid" infomercial, it seems like Obama's campaign simply purchased 30 minutes of advertising time.
If McCain has got the cash, he could do the same. It's capitalism.
Peace
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There are two paradoxes in this election: #1 If Hillary were the Dems candidate, she would be running away with this (although not sure how a Wellesely College and Yale Law School grad became a hero of the white working class).
#2 As the economy has trumped Iraq as the main issue, Mitt Romney would have been perceived as the candidate that best understands the issues.
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# 250 ~ Magic
Work it out out, dear. Obama paid for his broadcast because people have sent him the money to spend on making the case for his election.
McCain could do the same - but someone seems to have forgotten to send him the money.
Maybe you, Magic ?
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Wishfull thinking, In my opinion.
I hope Obama wins, and always have, but I'm speaking from a mathematical point of view. If you look at the electoral college, Obama only needs to carry the Kerry States from 2004, and take one or two new states (which by all indications, he should).
This was always going to be an election about swing-states, and McCain has completely surrendered that middle-ground.
It's a die-hard optimist that really thinks the old soldier has a decent chance, in my opinion.
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227. At 1:28pm on 30 Oct 2008, MagicKirin wrote:
ref #185
As an independent I want fair voting.
Which is why you should be outraged by the blatant voter fraud of Acorn.
www.foxnews.com
Why are so Obama supporters unconcerned that people who are not eligible to vote in a certain state might do so.
The Ohio Secretary of State has made her states votes suspect unless either canidate has a resounding victory
-------------------------------------------------------
Why have you GOP supporters not thought that electronic no backup voting machines can be flawed and there have been some real serious suspicions about them for the last two elections( well chads hang) .
Two elections believed to have been stolen what with intimidation at polls and all the stuff you Right wing freaks relied on to get your party in power that you gave not a rats donkey about.
So what. Fair election let the UN in to inspect.
Jokergerkin
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@ 251. seanspa
I don't like Sex and the City, does that mean i have to watch it or else im stupid?
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"This is a fight to continue to exist as we do now."
Uneducated, uniformed, afraid and in the end probably poor, that's how you exist now.
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#235 peterib,
yes you are right, tax dollars should only go into paying for wars, funding puppet government overseas and 'pro-america' militant groups like the contras, expanding the military,and bailing out wall street.
all tax dollars should be spent on overseas projects of the richest people in the country, like pipelines in iraq that never send oil to the united states. money well spent.
tax dollars should not be spent on roads, schools,hospitals,the sick,food inspections or border security, that is completely unacceptable and smacks of socialism.
americans have 2 choices, one party spends ur taxes on the military,weapons and propping up foreign democracies, or the other party who vows to do the same (though not to the same extent) and spends some of the taxes on americans( as opposed to iraqis).
i wonder if you would trade your middle class existence in the true north 'canada' for the typical middle class of an american? get denied acccess to a doctor because your insurance isnt enough, pay 100 000 + for college tuition, protect your own property from mexican drug smugglers running the border because border security doesnt have the man power?
or perhaps you are not middle class, so your concerns arnt necessarily with them.
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Look! It's an Arab! No, it's a socialist! No, it's a terrorist! No, it's a Muslim! No, it's an anti-American! No, it's a pro-abortionist! No, it's an anti-gun liberal! No, it's unpatriotic! No, it's an elitist! No, it's a smooth talker! No...
... it's Super-Obama!
:-) Sorry, couldn't resist
It does say something about one campaign's approach, though...
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ref #258
Did you go to the Fox News sight?
This morning they showed a video with high up at ACORN activly endorsing Obama.
So much for their non partsian registration voter drive.
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90, 91
We got two guys ready for the big bonfire night celebrations.
War hero
put this in big (easier for old blind people to read)
VOTING FOR TWO INCOMPETENT AND DANGEROUS WAR MONGERING TERRORISTS LIKE MC CAIN AND PALIN IS THE MOST UNPATRIOTIC THING YOU CAN DO.
TO BURN YOUR OWN COUNTRY AS YOU RETREAT IN TO YOURSELVES BECAUSE YOU ARE OFFENDED THAT PEOPLE INSULT YOUR USELESS PARTY OF DEADBEATS AND CARE MORE FOR PARTY THAN COUNTRY IS UNPATRIOTIC AND YOU SHOULD BE TRIED AS TRAITORS.
just to say the other side.
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263. At 3:25pm on 30 Oct 2008, oldnat wrote:
#249 bluepaddy13
Presumably "REAL Republican"s only live in "REAL America".
Kansas sounds like a good start to find it, then follow the yellow brick road, follow the yellow brick road ...........
NO a real Republican can live ANYWHERE in the world he just would not vote for an Obama !! not that difficult to understand is it ?? trying thinking a wee bit
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280. At 3:45pm on 30 Oct 2008, jacksforge wrote:
90, 91
We got two guys ready for the big bonfire night celebrations.
War hero
put this in big (easier for old blind people to read)
VOTING FOR TWO INCOMPETENT AND DANGEROUS WAR MONGERING TERRORISTS LIKE MC CAIN AND PALIN IS THE MOST UNPATRIOTIC THING YOU CAN DO
WRONG...........................
The only Terrorists running in this Election is Obama and Bin Biden ! Obama will do more damage to the country than several 9/11's rolled into 1
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R's,
There were loads of other channels.Peace and slime trails
ed
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196. jcputn5349 wrote:
The fear emanates from Marxist rhetoric coming from the Obama campaign, as well as, source materials, such as his senate record in Congress and past statements.
_______________
I really don't know if I should laugh or cry when I read such stuff.
If Obama is a Marxist, then Germany's Merkel, France's Sarkozy and the UK's Brown must be radical neo-Stalinists in your book....
Unbelievable!
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Asascott and all - versus Bluepaddy
Bluepaddy
It would seem that if Mcain buys airtime on TV it is part of the American Dream.
If Obama does the same, it is part of a Marxist, Fascist, Islamacist, Anarchist plot.
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"on the left are totalitarian statists and as you move to the right on an imaginary line you meet other category names that define the amount of state power you will tolerate in your daily life."
So now Pinochet, Videla and a whole lot of other rather messy and totalitarian dictators that your average republican poltico was so haoppy to pal around with were left-wing? The extreme right on your imagenary line is far worse than the extreme left, because it negates human progress and wants more than anything to keep your Joe the Plumber in his place so the financial elite can keep reaping the fruits of his labour. At its heart it just wants to propagate the feudal aspects of European civilization, denying all social progress that the Enlightenment has brought. Most of your founding fathers are spinning in their graves as I write this when they hear the drivel that the neo-cons are selling for "patriotism". It is so sad that Americans can't even acknowledge their own history. They do believe that Jefferson and co dremead up this whole constitution thing all by themselvers, where as in actual fact it was rooted in a European tradition that was by that time at least a century and a half old. They weren't even the first people to kick us their king, because the Dutch did it a hundred years before. Their republic became a haven for free speech and an example to the founders of the USA.
Socialism would, historically speaking, have been a rather logical consequence of the original American Dream. That it isn't can only be explained by the most vicious propaganda campaign that any people has ever been subjected to. All in the name of freedom. Like I said, it's sad, really.
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253. At 2:53pm on 30 Oct 2008, eightypercent wrote:
# 235 ~ Peterib
One question.
Do consider that the past eight years of President George W. Bush have been a beacon ?
COMPARED to what 8 years of Obama regime would be like YES Bush has been a beacon !
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#280 jacksforge
Nice try, but capitals are actually more difficult to read.
Probably why no one ever reads the stuff from the extremists!
ex-teacher Oldnat
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Tuksta, you have scored a hit on my argument. Not a direct one, though. I also hate Sex & the City, but I have to watch it as my wife likes it. Also, it's not an opinion, so it doesn't count.
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#196, 213
jcp
I'm still waiting for your backup to the 'Marxist' allegations. Prove it, and $1000 goes to a charity of your choosing. Name it, give the the bank details, and the money'll be there.
I'm entirely serious about this, and hope to see your proof soon.
If I don't see it, however, I have to assume that you're given to making things up, and are, not to put too fine a point on it, a liar.
It's put up or shut up time.
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80%,
Just for you
Peace to all
xxx ed
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20. I don't know what to make of your post. Your salient point, that this is a very bad and critical moment for the US, is true, if a little overstated, IMO. Now doesn't compare to 12/7/1941, the civil war, or the worst days of the depression--not to mention having our capitol burnt in 1812, or Valley Forge. Nevertheless, it is serious, and what we do from here is very important.
Then you state that both McCain and Obama are horrible candidates. I can't agree. I'd say they're well above average, taken as a pair. Better than Bush and Kerry. Better than Nixon and anybody. Better than Johnson and Goldwater. Better than Reagan and Dukakis. Not as good as Jefferson and Adams. Not as good as TR, Wilson and Taft. Not as good as FDR and anybody.
But here reasonable people can disagree.
Then there's "[Obama] won't even prove his citizenship."
What part of Obama being born in Honolulu do you not understand? Or is it the fact that being born in the US automatically grants you US citizenship that you don't get? What, out of idle curiosity, would you consider adequate proof of his citizenship?
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One aspect of the hanging of Palin in effigy incident that seems not to be noted by those posting on it above, is that this was part of a Halloween display, not a campaign event. Someone made a "hate crime" complaint about it, but this went nowhere. It was investigated and found to be a case of protected expression.
Sure, it was in poor taste. Hanging someone in effigy is always in poor taste, and everything about Halloween is in poor taste. But putting this incident in a class with the use of a noose to intimidate people, as was done recently at a school in Oregon, is ridiculous.
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#281 bluepaddy13
"NO a real Republican can live ANYWHERE in the world"
Now that is scary!
That nice little old lady down the road (who has voted Conservative all her life) could actually turn out to be a REAL REPUBLICAN planning to defend Israel with her walking stick!
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I just watched the Obama 30 min ad.When you hear Obama ( and McCain) talk about the people they have met across the country you know its true. In Britain our politicans never really campaign. I've never seen or met my local m.p and have never been contacted regarding who i'm voting for. I've heard Americans complain about the saturation coverage of t.v ads and annoying robo-calls and while I can understand the annoyance, at least your politicans make the effort, even if it is only once every 4 years.
Watching Obama and McCain campaigning makes you realise that we in Britain are taken for granted. Even a result like Glasgow east did nothing to change the way in which the Government acts. " we need to listen" they say untill the cameras stop rolling and then its back to the same old behaviour. They put up a few posters and expect people to slavishly vote just because its Labout or Conservative. Its no wonder turnout is so low.
Apologies for my ranting on.
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#282 bluepaddy13
I have family in NY. On 9/11 I flew an American flag at half mast.
For you to say "Obama will do more damage to the country than several 9/11's rolled into 1", I find offensive - and I'm a Scot.
Heaven knows what Americans will think of your comment.
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#204. john-In-Dublin: ref # 32: "If I read this right - if McCain wins, it's due to Palin? But if he loses, it's also - partly - due to Palin?
Mmmm. I'm sorry, but the words 'bets' and 'hedging' do rather spring to mind."
No hedging of bets - I've said before that, despite the polls, I don't believe that an Obama victory is a given. Whether one likes it or not, Mrs Palin has energised the Republican campaign and she appeals to a certain voter who might not otherwise have voted for Mr McCain. By the same token, those who might have voted for McCain in the first place may be concerned that such an uninformed candidate might possibly become President. Whatever the result, the Palin factor will be a part of it and, next Wednesday, blogs and commentators will be discussing how much she has harmed or helped the Republican cause. I don't see that is 'hedging one's bets'!
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#287, Bluepaddy
Go and answer the question without referring to Obama.
Please, I'm curious. Bush a beacon?
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#45 "In the first civil war it was the Democrats who left the union to preserve slavery. This time it would be Republicans leaving the union to preserve freedom from socialism."
We'll take the universities, cultural institutions, and administrative backbone, but feel free to take a good chunk of Wall Street with you on your way out.
More seriously, is there a trend for barely-liberals to move away from the competitive and expensive work environment of the coasts into the center? And if so how will this affect US electoral demographics in twenty years? Will the Republicans eventually just be left with the South and parts of the North-West? I'm no Republican but at least in terms of numbers of feasible parties that's pretty worrying for a supposedly democratic system, no?
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#287 bluepaddy13
Sounds just like Bush's foreign policy."COMPARED to what 8 years of Obama regime would be like YES Bush has been a beacon !"
Mmm You might be onto something there.
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Look, the Republicans stole it in 2000 and again in 2004. Why do you think 2008 will be any different? The sole reason that McCain chose Sarah Palin is that she can be the excuse when the exit polls show Obama has won but the electronic polls show it's the Republicans. He can say that in the privacy of the polling booth people wanted the old white man and the hockey mom.
Frankly, I'll be glad. Go Sarah, go!
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#285 Eightypercent:
"It would seem that if Mcain buys airtime on TV it is part of the American Dream.
If Obama does the same, it is part of a Marxist, Fascist, Islamacist, Anarchist plot."
Some people certainly seem to feel that way. Just to clarify what I meant earlier was that if MSNBC ran the 'infomercial' for free then they should give McCain equal airtime. If Obama paid and McCain can't afford it, well that's capitalism for you...
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jcputn539 (#152),
"If Obama wins, he wants to restructure the Constitution. Nothing of the past or future matters until we secure our
Constitution."
And Alan Keys wants to overturn the 17th Amendment. Now that's genuine irony.
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Is Joe the Plumber here? asks McCain.
No.
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Another endorsement
Peace and Bugs Bunny
ed
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285. At 3:57pm on 30 Oct 2008, eightypercent wrote:
Asascott and all - versus Bluepaddy
Bluepaddy
It would seem that if Mcain buys airtime on TV it is part of the American Dream.
If Obama does the same, it is part of a Marxist, Fascist, Islamacist, Anarchist plot...............
...................... Or just plain and simple a Republican (Patriot) vs a DemocRAT (who never served his country in any shape or form)
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"All Obama has to do is produce the full [the one with all the info on it] birth cirtificate"
Okay, I'll bite. Why does Obama have to produce his birth certificate and not McCain? Because whacko conspiracy theorists consider Obama a covert foreigner and McCain A-OK? Because McCain is white and Obama isn't? Because Obama's father was a foreigner? Or is it some other reason?
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300. At 4:18pm on 30 Oct 2008, oldnat wrote:
#287 bluepaddy13
"COMPARED to what 8 years of Obama regime would be like YES Bush has been a beacon !"
Mmm You might be onto something there.
"Beacons have often been abused by pirates. A fire at a wrong position was used to direct a ship against cliffs or beaches, so the cargo could be looted after the ship sank or ran aground." (Wikipedia)
Sounds just like Bush's foreign policy.
NO ACTUALLY that sounds more like what an Obama regime would be like........
Bush on the other hand would be more like -
""Classically, beacons are fires lit on hills or high places, used either as lighthouses for navigation at sea, or for signalling over land that enemy troops are approaching""
BUSH warning of the enemy approaching being it FOREIGN or DOMESTIC (Obama)
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Bluepaddy,
Should only those who have served their country in the armed forces be allowed to run for president?
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296. At 4:11pm on 30 Oct 2008, oldnat wrote:
#282 bluepaddy13
I have family in NY. On 9/11 I flew an American flag at half mast.
For you to say "Obama will do more damage to the country than several 9/11's rolled into 1", I find offensive - and I'm a Scot.
Heaven knows what Americans will think of your comment.........................
I AM IN NEW YORK so you don't need to tell me anything about 9/11 especially as a Scot !
Its called Freedom of speech and my Opinion is Obama will damage this country more than several 9/11's rolled into one, IF You do not agree thats up to you, but do NOT assume you speak for any other Americans just because you do not agree
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Mick Burke (295),
I've met at least a dozen of "my" MPs and MSPs of most parties, and that's without really trying. By and large, they do 'put themselves about' rather well. The good ones also answer letters and emails, often personally.
Perhaps, living in a rural area helps, but I've also met and chatted with some who represent urban constituencies. It's also a refreshing fact that, although some may be lawyers, most aren't, unlike in the USA.
Maybe you should get out more?
Peace and Guinness
ed
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#306
I presume being a Senator isn't serving the nation "in any form"?
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A small suggestion to those vehemently opposed to an Obama Presidency:
Perhaps if enough of you borrowed from the Buddhist Monk playbook and took to burning yourselves to death in public...
Maybe then McCain might have a chance.
I dunno, just a thought.
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# 291 Ed
Bless you for that - and I am sorry that I allowed Miss Piggy to shout over my shoulder - but I misled you. Will.i.am 's video is called "Yes we can".
It is quite extraordinary and I don't think you've seen it because you would have put it up.
Andrew Sullivan has it on the page at the moment.
Even if you don't link it have a look because I know you will enjoy.
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ACORN is required by law to turn in ALL voter registration forms regardless of how blatantly fraudulent they appear to be.
REQUIRED BY LAW!!!!
So stop already with the ACORN voter fraud BS already.
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309. At 4:40pm on 30 Oct 2008, squideyes wrote:
Bluepaddy,
Should only those who have served their country in the armed forces be allowed to run for president?
I think it should be written into LAW, yes, that is my opinion, HOW can you be C in C if you never wore a Uniform?
Name any large organisation which would appoint someone DIRECT to CEO without any experience ?? How do you get the respect of your Armed Forces with a) a democrat, when the Armed forces are 68% Republican voters, b) when the over whelming amount of Armed Forces do not respect an Obama,
It is the Military who protect this nation and they DESERVE a C in C who is qualilfied.
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#oldnat 233:
"His name, therefore, reads as "I see Putin" - and if he can see Putin, he must be a RUSSIAN and a COMMUNIST !"
Is not Sarah Palin on record as saying that she can see Putin or at least Russia?
Funnily, a famous internet rumour among some religious Apocalypse "radicals" (not sure whether they support Palin of course) that Putin must be the Anti-Christ, because ... he appears on a 15th century Flemish painting by Jan Van Eyk "The Arnolfini Wedding". I have actually seen the real painting and I must say I agree there is some resemblance.
But how in heaven (or hell, of course) did a bunch of religious freaks come to this painting and start to see Putin there? I researched this and I hink I have found the (innocent) source of this bizarre Internet rumour: treatises on painting techniques in the 15th century! Have a look at this web page (and its very title): http://www.speedylook.com/Put_in_abyss.html .
That being said, I would still want to know from Vladimir Vladimirovitch what he was up to on the 6th of June 2006 in ... Vladimir Vladimirovitch, why is there no Russian town with the postal code 666? Why are you avoiding 666 everywhere in Russia? Does not that mean 666 is reserved for the Kremlin or your datcha in Rublyovka?
(I have actually checked the website of Pochta Rossii, and that postal code indeed does not seem to exist, but neither does 665. 664 is Irkutsk and 667 is the Tuva Republic)
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312. At 4:45pm on 30 Oct 2008, endorfin wrote:
#306
I presume being a Senator isn't serving the nation "in any form"?...................
if you are referring to Obama's 143 days actual work in the senate, and actually doing anything positive for the nation, then clearly he is not doing it !
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Justin,
(a deep sigh) you always find these obscure strange articles to illustrate a far-fetched and fringe ideas. Seriously why don't you blog about say the blame game that is raging in the McCain camp? I mean you seems to be embedded with the McCain camp and you seem have an intimate source within the camp.
Oh and by the way, will you post this one given once again that my comment is critical of your blog (which I think is perfectly a valid thing to comment). See if I care.
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One thing that interests me is the impact a McCain victory would have upon the rest of the world's opinion of America.
Now before I start:
1. Many on the left with say that it can't get any worse than it is already.
And
2. Many on the right won't care
But consider this.
I think it is fair to say that for most of the rest of the planet, we don't really understand why this election is so close. To us (yes I realise I'm attempting to speak on behalf of most of the planet here - and yes, I am that presumptive), this is pretty much an 'open and shut' case. We can't understand why / how anyone could consider voting for the McCain / Palin ticket. However, we do understand that there are certain sections of the American populace that uses a different version of logic that is popular elsewhere.
In addition, the polls have been consistantly in Obama's favour for some time now.
Accordingly, should McCain somehow end up POTUS, it would be difficult to escape the conclusion that either:
1. Large scale electoral fraud has been undertaken.
Or
2. The USA remains inherently racist (and people have been lying to the pollsters).
The result of this is that is would cast severe doubt on whether the USA is indeed a democracy at all (let alone a 'shining beacon') - reinforcing the damage done in 2000.
McCain would then have a very difficult time portraying American intervention anywhere as being in the cause of democracy - leaving the USA essentially isolated and friendless.
Just a thought.
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80%,
You must have missed it, because I've got it bookmarked for easy access, and have linked to it several times since April or May...
Si se Puede (Yes We Can)
ed
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# 295 Lonely Mick
To endorse what Ed says, I have even, without trying, had a one-to-one with Joe Biden in the Senate. And very charming and welcoming he was too.
Mind you, without asking for it, I have also discovered that I have been named and teased by Keith Olberman in one of his rants.
Mick - you must live in a "safe" seat - I believe that it is only in the swing states (plus now Nevada) that you are unlucky enough to get a robocall.
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oldnat (#296), I don't find that statement of blue's offensive, because it's ludicrous. What does he mean? That Obama will destroy scores of buildings and kill thousands of Americans? Of course not!
If he's referring to the intangible aspects of 9/11, it's still ludicrous, as some of these were positive, such as bringing Americans together, counting our blessings, and resolving to be strong and overcome this challenge to our way of life.
Part of our problem today is the incompetence with which that last has been carried out by the current administration.
We have a choice, hope vs. fear. McCain is relying on the latter, saying, as "blue..." is, that Obama is "dangerous." It's pretty clear by now that most Americans reject this, and will choose hope over fear.
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Si Se Puede (with Spanish subtitles)
Vaya con Gaia
ed
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Bluepaddy: "Armed Forces do not respect an Obama"
What do you mean by *an* Obama.....?
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#317 ~ PaulP
Actually, '666' isn't the Number of the Beast.
This is an error based on a long-standing mis-translation of the bible. The number is actually '661'.
Pointing this out to the more rabid of the fundamentalist types can be no end of fun.
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So very, very tired of the ninnies wailing about how the sky will fall and the multiple ways the nation will be destroyed if an opposing candidate wins the election. This isn't a banana republic we're living in, and we're not electing an omnipotent emperor...it's the USA and a 4- to 8-year president.
I was a Hillary supporter. I didn't like the way she was treated in the press and by the Obama campaign, but I've moved on. If the candidate herself can move on, my goodness, why can't everyone else?
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192. At 12:05pm on 30 Oct 2008, DominickVila wrote:
Ref 183
"Are some Republicans actually doing their damnedest to foment hatred of people..................................
Eh excuse me, but what do you think the left have been doing for the last EIGHT years ???
To be honest, "IF" Obama gets in, I hope he gets the same treatment from us, that Bush got from Democrats !
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justin you need to post a new topic on your ad becuase this topic has been taken over by crazies and conspiracy theorists.
I guess this is what the campaign has come down to in the mind of many. talk about trash talk.
i guess fear tactics really work on some folks, they may as well get their shot gun, their bible and go build themselves a bunker and prepare for this chaos they speak so desperately about. (talk about fulfilling a stereotype).
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325. At 5:06pm on 30 Oct 2008, CB wrote:
Bluepaddy: "Armed Forces do not respect an Obama"
What do you mean by *an* Obama.....?....................................
Exactly what it says, an Obama character...... an Obama, do you not understand English ??
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#325
You know what he means. Let's face it, we ALL know what he means.
The word he's searching for is often preceded by 'uppity'...........and is highly offensive.
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I personally would avoid saying anyone would do more damage than 911 because of the emotionally loaded nature of the comparison. Is the meaning that this person would fly four planes into national monuments?
I would rather point out something less equivocal, like the fact that the wars W. has gotten us into have now cost more US citizens their lives than 911 did.
"AP: Death Toll in Iraq and Afghanistan Now Tops 9/11Sep 22, 2006 ... As of Friday, the U.S. death toll stood at 2693 in the Iraq war and 278"
Altough it has to be pointed out, the 911 terrorists didn't succeed nearly as much as Bush did in disheartening US friends, destroying US security and establishing Muslim extremists in new countries.
But saying Bush did more damage than 911? To me, that reads too much like a cheap shot.
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# 321
Obsequious bowings of the knee to Ed Iglehart.
I was ignorant. He is ahead of the game and has excellent taste.
And that's it.
And do take a look at Si se puede if you haven't seen it before. Even Bluepaddy might enjoy.
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McCain Campaign "Disdainful" Of Blogging, "Believes That's Not What Journalism Ought To Be"
So, all y'all McCain supporters might as well go home.
Peace and quiet
ed
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i've read far too much about this election given i'm supposed working for a PhD hand-in Nov 3rd.
perhaps its as a Brit i'm inclined to think foreign policy is the big issue for the future of the USA but with the state of the US/world economy as it is, all other issues now contribute to it and vice-versa. surely this makes overseas relations the most important determinant of how the USA comes out of the coming few years.
I read that team Bush are now considering talking to the Taliban in efforts to stem Mid East military expenditure. This seems to confirm the belief that there will be little difference between an Obama or McCain presidency. Fiscal pressures will force the general direction no matter who's at the helm.
so i think it comes down to two things:
1. which of them would I prefer to break the bad news thats coming?
2. who do I want handling negotiations with other countries on my behalf?
i guess the answer to the first questions is a matter of style and taste. you've probably seen enough of the pair of them to work out which one you'd prefer to share a drink with.
the answer to the second question... well who's going to get the better deal in international negotiations with an America on the economic back foot? McCain looks as culturally unaware as Bush to me.
Enough said really.
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Those who think our worst is bad should visit some sites in Tennessee or Georgia.
It may represent 30% of the American electorate!
__________________
Oldnat's #233 is an expert parody of what actually goes on.
For a long time there was a CIA site (KGEI) in San Francisco that put such a Spanish-speaking evangelist on the air.
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316.
Have you ever heard the words "War is too important a thing to be left to generals" ?
It is an interesting idea that a president should be required by law to have served in the armed forces. But does it go far enough? Sitting stateside polishing cannon balls, or avoiding service in the Air National Guard, can't be sufficient, can it? They should have had to have faced enemy fire, one would think.
And shouldn't there be other requirements for the presidency besides having served in the armed forces? I wonder what they might be...
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Ref 310
"...my Opinion is Obama will damage this country more than several 9/11's rolled into one..."
You are obviously entitled to your opinion, but there is nothing that suggests Obama will do worse than George W. Bush did 8 months into his presidency, when McCain was already a senior "experienced" Senator. In fact, judging by the way Obama reacts, the clarity of his message, and his steady temperament I doubt he will show the ambivalence and ineptitude of the incumbent if, Heavens forbid, he finds himself under similar circumstances. Obama's challenge is overcoming the damage done by Republican ideology.
Whether it is domestic or foreign policy, Obama has demonstrated a clear vision of the future, he inspires hope and confidence, is focused on helping the majority of Americans Vs the elite, wants to bring back fiscal sanity, a robust economy, has surrounded himself with experienced and highly regarded advisors, and is viewed favorably by people worldwide.
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OldNat, I wish you wouldn't refer to 9/11. In the civilised English speaking world that means November the 9th, which was not the date of the World Trade Center attack. All the British media persist in saying 9/11, and in a few years we won't know what date we mean in any instance. We've lost our "billion", why should we lose our logical dating system?
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#15 When a man like Colin Powell demonstrates such poor judgement and in the process spouts amazing nonsense, one gets the feeling that the powers of reason have deserted almost an entire nation.
Sort of like "everybody's out of step but Johnny?"
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Someone should notice and appreciate the best performance by the mods that I've seen keeping up with the posts. Good job. Thank you.
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#302 AsaScot
...if MSNBC ran the 'infomercial' for free then they should give McCain equal airtime. If Obama paid and McCain can't afford it, well that's capitalism for you...
If McCain really believes in the power of market forces shouldn't he quit the race now?
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Tokando at 50.
What I was doing was comparing the the relative powerlessness of the ordinary citizens at the democratic primary caucus, having their votes stolen by Obama and his centrally organised "representatives", with the child victims and their far more powerfull adult perpatrators.
A nightmare situation where the victims pleas for justice are ignored because the bad guy has higher status in the eyes of the media.
I was not graphic like you have been, but using such an emotionally charged comparison was a mistake on my part.
I really do care passionately about democracy and I let my emotions get the better of me.
Sorry about that.
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316 bluepaddy13 wrote:
309 squideyes wrote:
Bluepaddy,
Should only those who have served their country in the armed forces be allowed to run for president?
I think it should be written into LAW, yes, that is my opinion, HOW can you be C in C if you never wore a Uniform?
Name any large organisation which would appoint someone DIRECT to CEO without any experience ?? How do you get the respect of your Armed Forces with a) a democrat, when the Armed forces are 68% Republican voters, b) when the over whelming amount of Armed Forces do not respect an Obama,
____________________
If there are any Republicans out there reading this that do not agree with Bluepaddy's desire for a one-party rule, please do speak up!
Otherwise, my opinion of Republicans is bordering on the unspeakable....
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#20 Like him or not, Obama is consdered an inexperienced usuper and fraud by many Americans. He won't even prove his citizenship.
Hasn't this been put to bed multiple times? Obama provided his birth certificate and it was certified by the state of Hawaii as being genuine. Is there some other sort of "proof" that's missing? If so, what?
The remainder of your post is a tribute to fear. I am sorry you are living your life in fear, although I understand how you feel about not liking either candidate. That's usually how I feel myself (I felt that way in 2004). This is just about the first year that I've ever NOT felt that way - in fact, before McCain picked Palin I actually liked BOTH candidates and wondered how I would choose between them. Fortunately, his VP pick made that choice extremely easy. Now every time I think I might tilt towards McCain over Obama, I just think "Oh, yeah, Palin. That takes care of that." It has nothing to do with the dirt that's been dug up about her and everything to do with what has come out of her own mouth.
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180 was right and we should keep in perspective that Red or Blue won't end the USA, but if the economy is #1 issue then Blue looks a lot better and Red looks a lot worse.
Make sure to vote - I did - and will take a break with high hopes for next week
If undecided, weigh multiple sources of information, but realize that larger networks and papers can do more fact checking and smaller more self-published radio and internet hosts do less or care less about fact checking.
School open house this week provided a window into parent's views. This reminded me of my grae schol Nixon-Ford 'platform' that as I recall included school lunches and treehouses.
Anyway, today's kids history study political posters were evenly split Obama and McCain. Most used simple elements of campaign logos and a few words about economy, service or better future.
Some of the McCain posters and none of the Obama had some disturbing elements - Obama picture with graffitti turban and other arab/moslem symbols. Obama 'facts' - "He was born in Kenya: who will tell the truth?", etc., or just the "nobama" symbol.
This suggests that maybe 10% of local households believe a set of lies:
- Obama is not USA citizen (false)
- Obama is a marxist (false, a bit hypocritical given govt. bailouts too)
- Obama will wreck economy (no basis for this: Ed is always quick to link Institute for Tax Policy study that shows Obama's tax plan will run smaller deficits than McCain's; by the way we've just had worst 1/4 since 2001 and Exxon Mobil set record profit ever for any US firm). We already have a generation's worth of harm to repair from the last 8 years and we need to start soon.
- Obama wants to rewrite the constitution (false, he doesn't, and he can't do that alone)
- where does his money come from? no mystery, from tens of millions of legitimate small contributions, which is a remarkable Jeffersonian groundswell, and a few 100 that are in question [maybe they got foreclosed]
In essence, we are looking at Obama under a microscope to see the tiniest hint that could possibly be a mote, while the critics are tripping over the logs in theri own eyes. Obama is called a liberal by a guy who voted 90% with Bush. Continuing the same economic policies that got us to this year's mess is presented as the sure fire way to get us out, etc.
After 8 years of attacking most American's pocketbooks, the right has launched its final assault on what is left of middle class wealth, with a great smoke screen (all the lies about Obama listed above flung out one last time) and diversionary attacks such as quizzing voters tax knowledge (yes Obama will remove top bracket tax breaks, in the big picture of US tax policy that is a fine tuning, but that makes almost $2 Trillion less deficit under Obama plan over 2 terms) or political science (what is a cocialsit, liberal, marxist anyway?).
If we've learned anything over 8 years it should be to see through all that and hit back at the ballot box by voting out Republicans who've fostered wholesale redistribution of wealth to failed CEOs and the wealthiest 1-2%, and strain military families without taking care of veterans or asking the home front for any shared sacrifice. As indignant about earmarks as McCain has been, the biggest poster kids are his 2 convicted colleagues Cunningham and Stevens.
Mens Health magazine just had a 3-page Obama interview with such radical thoughts from Obama as: "The Government is Not your Nursemaid" and "advance by bringing people to common ground"
Hope to see you back talking about cabinet choices then first 100 days...
Good Luck
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Exserviceman, what are you trying to prove here? Do you think that your spurious accusations are going to somehow stop Obama from becoming the first black president? If so, I think your futile endeavours are just that futile.
Let's put things in perspective, the mistake that Hilary (that's the correct spelling by the way) and McCain made is to underestimate the greatness and incisiveness of Barack Obama.
This is a man that has utililsed internet technology as a foil for his campaign to such a degree that he managed to garner more funds than either Clinton or McCain's campaigns. If that doesn't give you an idea of how good a president he'll be, then nothing will.
Presidency is not about being a forlorn figure locked inside a room to produce the requisite results for the citizens of America. It is about surrounding yourself with the best people to provide and implement the best solutions. Clinton and McCain didn't surround themselves with the best people hence the reason, why their campaigns haven't done as well as obama's.
Quite frankly, if anyone cannot deduce that of the two candidates, Obama is the best man for this particular job, at this particular time, they clearly need their head examined, as you don't have to be the brain of Britain to know that a man (McCain) who cannot even grasp the concept of email is not the man to lead America forward at this particular epoch in America's history.
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ref #302
Interesting point. But doing an informecia on a news channel is a little different than doing on a commercial programing channels.
Let say McCain had the money or sold one of the homes to do it.
IF MSNBC said no, what would be your feeling?
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# 334
Have I missed something or am I safe to mention that there is an interesting article by Eugene Jarecki about events following his filming of "Why we Fight" which we discussed yesterday.
The article is on Huffpo.
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#24 While, like most journalists, I suspect Justin does lean a little to the left (as an actress said to a bishop), his problem is more that he leaves himself wide open to criticism by linking to the HP and others, then thinks the best way to balance it out is by giving equal time to nutters like Pajamas et al.
It's intentional. His job is to get us all talking and he does that best by creating conflict. The more conflict, the more talk. If he only linked to respectable sites, we wouldn't talk as much and his boss wouldn't think he was doing his job.
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Billy Ocean wasn't a one-hit wonder. He had 7 US top ten hits, including 3 number ones.
.... just sayin' :-)
(re: post 13)
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Ahh, if only it were true...that's what America needs more than anything - mayhem on the streets, and bloodier salons, the second American revolution. An abrupt end to the putrid politics of the "movers and shakers" of the decadent Duopoly Party that's caused so much untold and un-tolled mayhem and suffering around the world. Of course Obama Copacabana's victory was fradulent - and so wouldn't Billary's if s/he had scratched his eyes out and won; the whole damn system is fraudulent. The sham elections were fixed right from the start to insure continued rule by the "movers and shakers" regardless of which one of their petulant puppets is annoited figurehead president in the end. It's just a matter of who can do their bidding more effectively, not the ends that are served.
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All Obama has to do is produce the full [the one with all the info on it] birth cirtificate to a group of independent experts and the issue will vanish.
??? Why do you need all this investigation. I "proved" my citizenship with the birth certificate I got from the state health department, not the hospital original, which I don't have anyway (and there is apparently no way to retrieve it). Simply showing that birth certificate was good enough for me to get a passport (and I bet it was for you too). No "independent experts" were required.
Give it up. I understand that you will never vote for Obama, but you are not convincing anyone who is still undecided with your childish repetition of fearmongering over something that was long since settled.
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#47 People i meet who defend him now say things like "whats wrong with communism?"
"Whats WRONG with COMMUNISM?!"
- dear god, what is happening?!
Please come down off the ledge. Neither Obama nor McCain as president frighten me, but people with your reaction do. No one said "communism" except you and the republicans you've been listening to - you used "socialism" in the previous sentence, then made a huge leap off into "communism" as if you think they are synonyms. They are not. For your information, Sweden is a socialistic country. Sweden. Not exactly wild-eyed maniacs, hmm?
You are giving the impression that if Obama wins the election you will
a. Kill yourself
b. Hurt someone else
c. Do something else you will regret later
Please calm down.
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I don't know where the figure of 68% of the military being republican came from, but its truth is irrelevant. The armed forces alone do not (and should not) elected the president. It is an absurd suggestion that they should.
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according to bluepaddy, the only way you can be qualified to be president is if you served in the military. Sounds like north korea and burma to me.
Its sad that some out there still believe the only way to serve your country is to pick up a gun and go to war. I suppose if the country is not at war then one should be started so that they can 'train' future presidents. and the only service where there is demand in the country is in the military.
bluepaddy sounds like a military recruiter, telling kids the only way they can be somebody is by being a soldier.
Maybe the reason why Bush has done a poor job as president is because he dodged duty while serving(bluepaddy's logic).
i heard they need a few good men over there in iraq, go sign up.
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Belmons (#339), I think most people think of "9/11" as a name for an event, and know to what it refers, regardless of their preferred system of recording dates. In the US, 9/11 coincidentally resembles the special telephone code for emergencies, which is "911." Also, "9/11" rolls more easily off the tongue than "11/9."
That being said, I like the UK notation, and write things like "11 September," but always spell out the month so there is no ambiguity.
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#344 SpeleoKarst
This suggestion does give an added dimension to the military-industrial complex that Eisenhower warned of.
It looks like the REAL REPUBLICANS want to expand this to become the political_military-industrial complex.
It's not too surprising, as empires frequently go down this road as they enter their final days before the empire collapses.
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#348 Magickirn
"Interesting point. But doing an informecia on a news channel is a little different than doing on a commercial programing channels.
Let say McCain had the money or sold one of the homes to do it.
IF MSNBC said no, what would be your feeling?"
Then I think the FCC should be expected to ask MSNBC some hard questions, and if they don't get good answers hand out some sort of suitable punishment. Thing is I can't see them saying no, I mean if FOX was happy to run Obama's infomercial why would they?
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The only "independent experts" who count on the question of the eligibility of a candidate for President (or Vice President) are the members of Congress, who count and certify the electoral votes.
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#352
Proles,
Philly already has it. As part of a major urban regeneration scheme the Phillies won the world series yesterday and fans systematically started breaking everything in sight.
Tomorrow the victory parade. Expect major sections of the city around Broad Street to be burned to the ground to clear the way for a new park. And a mall.
All we need now is for the Iggles to win and we can rebuild the entire city.
I blame Florida.
Crowd Control Sam
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Millie2640 at 62
Thanks for replying from Chicago. There is nothing wrong with equality of opportunity, indeed M.L.K. speech in Washington DC is the greatest speech by any American since Lincoln's Gettysberg address. And the most inspiring to listen to!
However, forcing absolute financial equality of outcomes at the expense of the following might not be a great long term plan:
1/ Free elections elections by secret ballot
2/ Secret ballots for employees for union recognition and before strikes.
Since Obama is against 2/ and preferred/ insisted on caucus instead of 1/ I am concerned.
I have never questioned the Patriotism of African Americans as a group, indeed you are heavily over represented in the US Marine corps and US Army, Navy and Airforce, a fact that inspires only admiration and respect from myself.
In my first post that you refered to, I am really getting at the fact that Chicago in the 40's was the central destination of Afro Americans from the "Jim Crow"/repressive South West during the "Great Migration."
Lord knows its hard to blame some of them for signing up to the CPUSA after all the abuse and humiliation they suffered. No human being can endure that and not want to fight back in some way.
However, Chicago did become the Center of CPUSA influence during the early cold war. I am just pointing out the history to Justin so he can see what I am getting at.
The problem with communism is that under that system the Communist Party has permanent rule without elections, usually by a central Politbureau and or Dictator figure.
Anyway, best wishes and good look to you from the UK, Go Bears!
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#339. Belmons: "OldNat, I wish you wouldn't refer to 9/11. In the civilised English speaking world that means November the 9th, which was not the date of the World Trade Center attack. . . We've lost our "billion", why should we lose our logical dating system?"
If nothing else, to say 'nine-eleven' is more euphonious than 'eleven-nine'. There are so many more Americanisms which have been added to British useage - gas guzzlers, tuxedo, campus, side-order, power outage, little league, 'taking candy from a baby', chinos - and on and on. Not to mention the phrase "on a street" when it was previously "in a street" - e.g. "Selfridges is in Oxford Street" as opposed to "Selfridges is on Oxford Street". I'd correct those first (and many more) before worrying about the calendar.
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#329
Moderate,
I already did that, one with a big (expletive deleted) off steel door. It's all kitted out with choccy hob nobs and everything. The only problem I have is some nasty oenophile filled most of it with racks and racks of vino.
Still, if you're going to go . . .
You forgot Remoil, you need lots of Remoil to keep that shotgun ready.
Survivalist Sam
PS Not posting on the election but I will post on art, guns, bibles, sartorial elegance, hob nobs, jammy dodgers and anything Marcus says.
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In "Starship Troopers", the franchise was restricted to those who had served in the military.
I don't suppose it's surprising that the REAL REPUBLICANS are now suggesting policy basied on science fiction.
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beware these potential leaders who have 'proved themselves in war'.....their track record is not good. Hindenberg in 20's Germany paved the way for Hitler, Petain in post invasion France is hardly a model, Stalin and Kruschev defeated the Nazis but their governemnts were just as cold blooded.
We Brits had the sense to say 'thanks but no thanks' to Churchill in 45. The US should have the sense to see that McCain has already done his bit in a misguided war which the US lost. Governing peace is a lot more complicated than war
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I've held my silence for half a day, and the ranters continue... If a conspiracy theorist raves in a forest, and no one hears, do they make any sound?
Perhaps it's because I dislike being labeled as either an enemy or a fool by someone claiming to be patriotic, but I have a hard time even reading their screed. Is it so easy to pigeonhole people you don't know, because they disagree with you?
It's only a few short steps from this cant to the skinheads who plotted assassination (thankfully ineptly), or the neo-NAZI creed. As soon as we start being bipolar, and start drawing tribal boundaries between "us and them," "Real Americans" and the rest, then it's easy to start nursing imaginary grievances, and planning for the Aftermath.
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Geomapgirl at 353
The one Obama showed is fairly information free. Only the full one held under seal in Hawaii can settle the matter.
As for voting for Obama, I can't I am in the UK and a UK citizen. I am only commenting on your election because this is the website of the UK Based BBC.
It would be very impolite of me to post on a US based website. However this election is more important than most folk suspect, so here I am.
Do you think the Bears will make the play offs this year? [no satellite TV here]
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This post i saw on a blog really cracked me up. its on Obamas affection for his immediate family..ENJOY!!
OK, so Obama spends millions and millions of dollars that other people had given to him on a TV ad, trying to buy himself some more votes.
What I’m wondering is, while that $$$ ad was running, what was Obama’s aunt, Zeituni Onyango, the aunt so affectionately described in Obama’s best-selling memoir “Dreams From My Father,” who lives in a disabled-access flat on a rundown public housing project in South Boston, doing?
Does she own a TV? Can she even afford one? Just how deep is Obama’s “affection” for her, in other words?
Obama the Compassionate and Most Merciful One spends millions on himself on a TV ad, but is he willing to spend even $129 to buy a crummy TV set for his poor Aunt Onyango, who continues to struggle to make ends meet in a rundown public housing project??
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I used south west, but should have said south east. The solid south.
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#353. geomapgirl - ref the Obama birth certificate: since there has been a (very small) cloud of suspicion cast over the matter, with eight legal actions across the country, it would have been far easier to produce the document to allay those suspicions. Like Caesar's wife, Mr Obama should be seen to be above suspicion.
The refusal to produce what they want only exacerbates their anger. My own (British) birth certificate gives not only the date and place of my birth, but the name and occupation of my two parents. It seems a pretty harmless request to ask to see the full document; sealing it only adds fuel to the fire. I don't for a moment think it would show anything other than that he was born in Hawai'i, but then, I'm more easily convinced than the conspiracy theorists!
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368 exserviceman wrote:
The one Obama showed is fairly information free. Only the full one held under seal in Hawaii can settle the matter.
____________________
Do you really think that Obama's birth weight might be un-American?
(That's something he hasn't been accused of yet!)
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260, moderate_observer wrote:
?MCCAIN: Well, that's spreading the wealth in the respect that we do have a graduated income tax. That's a far cry from taking from one group of Americans and giving to another. I mean, that's dramatically different.?"??BUT that is what a graduated income tax system does , right?
_______
Hysterical !
McCain doing a Palin...
He really is catering to the 'low informed' only at this point.
I just watched Obama's 'informercial' - nothing new, but demonstrates his superiour outlook and demeanor once again.
Also, there is this Sam (aka Joe ) The Plumber Fox phone interview .
Guess it takes something to scare a Fox anchor, eh ? ;)
Available on huffington, of course.
The McCain campaign isn't running on fumes, it has switched to coal.
If only there weren't so many pro-(US)Americans fancying that big fat stink.
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Oh darn, U12831485 is of course your beloved Fritz the Hun .
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#365
There you go Nat, bringing up Starship Troopers (still required reading for US military officers).
We'll be arguing about fascism within the hour, darn it.
Sad Sam
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#365 oldnat
You beat me to the SciFi reference. I'm not sure if Heinlein really believed the philosophy behind the "citizen soldiers" of "Starship Troopers," but at least it was a well thought out and developed rationalization. Unlike the unthinking bile currently being spewed.
Maybe this is purely an American reaction, but given the level of animalistic irrationality appearing, I'd modify the proposal:
- Mandatory Public Service- not just military (the armed services would be too small) but also accepting civilian govt. service, teaching, law enforcement, fire & rescue, etc.
-pass required courses in high school in civics/government, American and World history, ethics, economics, basic science and logic/analysis
Don't meet the requirements, don't get to vote.
If we wanted to get really radical, we could ban political parties and ban people from running for offices, and instead having all candidates for elected positions nominated by write-in ballots. No campaigning, and no one allowed to decline nomination because serving would be a civic responsibility.
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If McCain wins unfortunately it will be because the people he will hurt the most, the people who have been hurt the most by the Republican Party in the past eight years, VOTED for him. They will have voted for him because they are ignorant. Ignorance breeds fear, and makes a person susceptible to believing innuendo, smears, and lies. They fall for Voodoo Politics and mud slinging because they just don’t trust themselves to believe that Mr. War Hero could be wrong. Many of these same people are highly vitriolic and call Obama followers sheep.
Well, Baaah this:
If trickle down economics represented by the kind economic policies supported by McCain work, then why have those corporations and individuals contributed to:
Jobs shipped oversees and rising unemployment in the US
Executive compensation rising to obscene levels while worker wages are loosing the battle with inflation
Re-distribution of wealth from tax payers to gamblers and thieves who manipulated an unregulated system and then cried Wolf…they are still taking tax payers to the cleaners (note how money given to banks to help stimulate credit has gone to share holders instead)
I could go on. This same “Joe the Plummer” who will vote for McCain is the same one who is loosing his home because his job was shipped to Bangalore.
“Jane the ??” who is thrilled by Palin is the same one that will die of undetected breast cancer because she has no insurance in a wealthy country that spends obscene amounts of money on health care while leaving hundreds of thousands uninsured and not cared for.
These people are ignorant because they are lacking in education because the education system in this country is failing. And they will continue to be lacking in education because people like McCain and his predecessors know that if they keep ‘em dumb, they can easily scare ‘em into voting for them and working like slaves for low wages while they get richer and richer and richer and richer with their “trickle down economics”.
If they win, it will be tragic for the very people who voted for them. And this country will continue down the slippery slope it has been on since W stole the election in 2000 with the help of his good brother in Florida and the same oligarchy of wealth that McCain seeks to reward in order to “stimulate” the economy - for the very rich and powerful. I guess the rest of us get the same old cheap dried out cake that’s been forced down our throats for the past eight years. But…what if all the workers in the US do so poorly that they can’t produce anymore? No problem. The rich can move, with the jobs, overseas.
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ref #359
Fox Network not Fox News ran it.
Did Both NBC and MSNBC run it?
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73
"goose"..."moose".... As long as it's cooked.
Does anyone else think of Amy Semple McPherson when watching Simple Sarah? There's an old publicity shot of McPherson 'doing battle' with a gorilla (to symbolize evolution) that might give her publicists another way to portray this undereducated potential head of state.
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Again, I wonder if merely restricting the Presidency to those who've served in the military should be enough.
My problem with McCain, as I've mentioned previously, is not that he isn't a good man (I think he is) or that he was a good soldier. I think he is at 70, a good junior officer, meaning he's desperate to inspire men to kill the enemy. You can't have a junior officer in charge.
It makes far more sense to have the president be the ranking officer in the armed forces. This republic thing, this idea that the armed forces must be subject to civilian control, is where it all wrent wrong, clearly. Just think: we could have a state like Sparta (hang on, they were a constitutional monarchy), or Prussia. Then we could have real American values.
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#368 The one Obama showed is fairly information free. Only the full one held under seal in Hawaii can settle the matter.
The "fairly information free" version is the one everyone - EVERYONE - is handed whenever they want a copy. The other version is the one given to the parents when the birth occurs, and once it gets lost, it probably takes a court order to get ot open again. But say Obama wanted a court order: He'd have to prove that he was himself in order to get it. How would he do that? By providing his birth certificate - the one you claim is not good enough. Therefore, by your logic, there would be no possible way anything he could legally do to satisfy your demand. Because if he did get a court order, the very nature of getting it would be brought under suspicion as he didn't have the "detailed" version of his birth certificate you claim is necessary to identify him. Yada yada yada.
On a lighter note, I don't really pay much attention to the Bears as I don't live in Chicago.
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316, bluepaddy13 wrote:
?It is the Military who protect this nation and they DESERVE a C in C who is qualilfied.
________
Granted, the USA don't have much of a history yet, but when exactly has the country ever been protected by its army ?
Virtually every country in the past 2000 years had its military fight foreign intruders, with few exceptions like Australia, Canada, or the USA ?
1812 comes to mind, if you want to call that a war .
WW II is debatable, but even then US American soil has never been in danger of an attack - who counts a couple of U-boats.
Cold war ? Maybe, though US military pollitics were one of the reasons for it to begin with.
So where is it , the 'defence' ?
Besides, McCain has a questionable military record, not high-tier military experience, sort of different, no ?
______
Fritz K.
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#375 SamTyler1969
Sorry about that, but it's close to my heart since Heinlein set the original set of vets seizing control out of chaos in "Aberdeen, Scotland".
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#371 - #353. geomapgirl - ref the Obama birth certificate: since there has been a (very small) cloud of suspicion cast over the matter, with eight legal actions across the country, it would have been far easier to produce the document to allay those suspicions. Like Caesar's wife, Mr Obama should be seen to be above suspicion.
But that's just it, there HASN'T been any suspicion at all except what was invented by the opposition's campaign machine. Suppose I ran for office and my opponent decided to try and ruin me by claiming I was a child-beater. There is no evidence that I am, but he could claim I'd had it hushed up. Am I then required to treat his ridiculous claim as if it had some basis in fact? Am I required to somehow "prove" that I am not a child-beater?
Requiring the opposition to answer to you, no matter how outlandish the charges gives you power over your opponent, as he has then put you on the defensive.
Obama doesn't need to "prove" he is a citizen when it's obvious to anyone other than someone who wishes to believe otherwise that he is one. Stopping to "prove" such a thing to people who wouldn't vote for him anyway would be to allow McCain to gain a political advantage over him and make him appear weak.
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#20 , your complaint about Obama not being a citizen.
I wonder why he probably is the first presidential candidate asked to prove that he was born in US.
There is also something else about him being the first. May be there is a relation there.
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Now I think I understand McCain's anger. He left the Navy as a middle-rank officer because of his injuries. His father and grandfather were four-stripe admirals. The only way he can equal or surpass their standard is by becoming the President, Commander-in-Chief. It's a Freudian thing.
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I'm still waiting for a "rational" Republican to come out and state that they disagree with bluepaddy's idea that the US should be a military-controlled one-party state....
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from 384 Requiring the opposition to answer to you, no matter how outlandish the charges gives you power over your opponent, as he has then put you on the defensive.
Ugh. Meant to say, Requiring the opposition to answer to you, no matter how outlandish the charges, give you power over your opponent, as YOU have them put HIM on the defensive.
Sorry about that.
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pkkmres (385), he is not the first to have been questioned in this regard. Ironically, the question arose in 2000 (and also this year) regarding McCain, who was born in the Panama Canal Zone. In 1964, the question was raised regarding Goldwater, who was born in the territory of Arizona, not then a state.
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#362 exserviceman wrote:
"However, forcing absolute financial equality of outcomes at the expense of the following might not be a great long term plan:
1/ Free elections elections by secret ballot
2/ Secret ballots for employees for union recognition and before strikes.
Since Obama is against 2/ and preferred/ insisted on caucus instead of 1/ I am concerned."
Let's see if I understand. Obama says he'll lower taxes for 95% of taxpayers. And this constitutes " forcing absolute financial equality of outcomes"? So absolutely everyone will have the same wealth? And the same income? Ie Obama is several degrees to the left of the Chinese Communist Party?
What, if any, is your evidence for this? Hopefully something other than some ranting rightwing website - or a video with poor sound?
And secondly, he'll achieve " forcing absolute financial equality of outcomes" at the expense of free elections.
You say he "preferred/ insisted on caucus" instead of free elections. When? Where? Evidence - if any? Yes, he did better in caucuses than Clinton. I've seen no real and compelling evidence whatsoever that this was for any reason except that voters preferred him - and were committed enough to persuade others. I also understood that it was largely up to each State as to whether they have caucuses or primaries. But clearly you know better. And will provide evidence.
You'll excuse me if I don't hold my breath while I'm waiting.
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#316 bluepaddy13,
If every president must have military experience then George Washington should never have been president. But he was against racism too (though he kept slaves he wrote against it, weird)
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SpeleoKarst (387), haven't you heard? All of the "rational" Republicans have been purged from the party in recent years, or are under deep cover. Hopefully, a good thumping of the Republicans in this election year will bring some of them back.
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386. A non-partisan observation is that presidents have enormous daddy complexes. Bush--father was president; clearly an Oedipal thing. Clinton--dad was MIA; endlessly searching for the fatherly approval that will never come. Bush W.--maybe not so glaring, but searching to validate unfairly high fatherly expectations. And on. I think you're quite right about McCain. And Obama's got the Clinton problem. He wants fatherly approval which won't come, so he rises to ridiculous heights in search of it.
387. To be fair, bluepaddy only suggested a law restricting the presidency to those with military service. It was my idea to take this to its logical end. And I'm waiting for to hear why that may not be such a good idea as well. Perhaps in vain.
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#119 talking down #47 - 3) not voice your opinion - where did you get that from. Who is going to curtail free speech?
I've noticed a disturbing tendency in the past few days for people to mistake a campaign's refusal to give an interview (i.e. Obama campaign cutting off whatever journalist called Biden a Maxist to his face) for "interfering with free speech."
No clue how they arrived at that bizarre conclusion, but that's the origin of the hubbub about "curtailing free speech."
The only free speech I've seen curtailed is what McCain's own campaign people are doing to the VP pick. Calling Palin a Diva for wanting to talk to the media without her handlers' permission? Now that's interfering with her right to free speech.
But if I just decide not to talk to you - that's my right. "Free speech" is not about forcing people to talk if they don't want to.
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#377
Sally,
Stupid question. How do you outsource plumbing? Do I ship my toilet to bangalore for someone to fix and then get it shipped back? I'd have to wait for service so I guess I'dneed to ship it air freight, do FedEx have special rates for plumbing?
Inquisitive Sam
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391, I meant Thomas Jefferson, not George Washinton. oops
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"McCain attacks Obama on oil firms "
yes he has finally lost all touch with reality.
Geomapgirl
i applaud you efforts, but i fear that the majority of people that post misinformation, rumors and innuendo have little respect for the truth.
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#390
John,
You are being very unfair.
Service lives in the UK and can't even remember how many crew members there are for each M109 he shot for the Royal Artillery in Gulf 1. How is he going to sort out the arcane rules of the Texas Democratic party?
Disappointed Sam
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pkkmres (391), George Washington? Are you kidding? He was the General of the Armies which fought the American Revolution! To this day, he is, by law, the highest-ranking US Military Officer.
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"369. At 6:52pm on 30 Oct 2008, icetayoa wrote:
This post i saw on a blog really cracked me up. its on Obamas affection for his immediate family..ENJOY!!
OK, so Obama spends millions and millions of dollars that other people had given to him on a TV ad, trying to buy himself some more votes."
Yeh ain't US politics grand? They call it democracy.
"What I?m wondering is, while that $$$ ad was running, what was Obama?s aunt, Zeituni Onyango, the aunt so affectionately described in Obama?s best-selling memoir ?Dreams From My Father,? who lives in a disabled-access flat on a rundown public housing project in South Boston, doing?"
Go and find out if your wondering. Meanwhile Obama is going to go on and become president.
"Does she own a TV? Can she even afford one? Just how deep is Obama?s ?affection? for her, in other words?"
Who knows, who cares?
"Obama the Compassionate and Most Merciful One spends millions on himself on a TV ad, but is he willing to spend even $129 to buy a crummy TV set for his poor Aunt Onyango, who continues to struggle to make ends meet in a rundown public housing project??"
Yeh awful. But Obama is going to be president baring the LHO solution. So better start getting used to the fact.
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#369,
You would think so. Sarah Palin's wardrobe fiasco probably did not teach you a lesson. Campaign money can not be used for personal use.
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#377 well said and very true. its divide the middle class and conquer.
the very same people who are the 'foot soldier's of mccain and the republicans , like joe the plumber are the same ones who are gonna get left behind while multi-millionaire McCain takes his share of the pie.
When things get too sour in the united states, mccain and his family can fly on their private jet and leave the united states and go live in one of the so called socialist european countries like luxemburg, while joe the plumber's job gets outsourced and he fights to keep his home. they dont have to book americna airlines or united like everyone else.
i take it everyone on here who bemoans middle class tax cuts are not in the middle class, because a poor or middle class man who votes republican and is somehow worried about the money in his pocket is crazy. the last 8 years have proven that.
wall street got filthy rich over the past 8, so has the oil companies like haliburton and exxon (who cut 1500 jobs the same week they announced record billion dollar profits in a quarter). They also wrote the energy policy of the united states with the help of dick cheney (more arab oil anyone?)
their CEOs are set for life, with the Bush tax cuts they received courtesy of Joe the Plumber. they should send him a postcard.
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#199 - Only God can save us.
Then I have a question for you: Do you believe in God? You're a republican, so I'll assume you do. In that case, you have absolutely nothing to worry about, because God will save you from whatever horrible outcome you are imagining, provided you have enough faith in Him. If you are honestly and completely a Christian, you will vote as you believe best and then accept that, no matter what, the best man will win the election even if it isn't the man you chose, because God is in charge of everything, and He knows more than you or I do.
And no hiding behind fear that the "wrong one" will cause the End of Days or something. If that is true, then, being a Christian, you will get out via the Rapture before you can be touched by it.
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391. At 7:43pm on 30 Oct 2008, pkkmres wrote:
#316 bluepaddy13,
If every president must have military experience then George Washington should never have been president. But he was against racism too (though he kept slaves he wrote against it, weird)...................................
Not sure I follow you, are you trying to tell me George Washington............ The GENERAL George Washington Commander of the US Army during the War of the Revolution did not have Military Experience?? are you joking? not only did he wear a US Uniform, earlier in his career he WORE a British Military Uniform as well, the FIRST US President and one of the greatest had PLENTY of Military experience, I suggest you crack open a history book or two
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393 RedWhiteandermblue
387. To be fair, bluepaddy only suggested a law restricting the presidency to those with military service. It was my idea to take this to its logical end. And I'm waiting for to hear why that may not be such a good idea as well. Perhaps in vain.
___________________
Not a good idea...
Does the word "fascism" mean anything at all to you?
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387. At 7:30pm on 30 Oct 2008, SpeleoKarst wrote:
I'm still waiting for a "rational" Republican to come out and state that they disagree with bluepaddy's idea that the US should be a military-controlled one-party state................................
Probably none will because thats NOT what I said, I did not say it should be a one party state, show me where I have said that
Democrats can serve in the Military too you know, not many of them like to do so, but it has been known
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#395 - Stupid question. How do you outsource plumbing? Do I ship my toilet to bangalore for someone to fix and then get it shipped back? I'd have to wait for service so I guess I'dneed to ship it air freight, do FedEx have special rates for plumbing?
This gave me an amusing mental picture of talking with someone in India about how to fix the toilet - in other words, they would troubleshoot what is wrong with the toilet over the phone, like they do with computers, and you would fix the toilet yourself.
"Have you tried flushing it?"
"It won't flush. The bowl is to the brim right now."
"Well, go ahead and try to flush it again."
"But it'll overflow!"
"Just try it. That model sometimes needs a very full bowl to flush properly ..."
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386. At 7:30pm on 30 Oct 2008, Gary_A_Hill wrote:
Now I think I understand McCain's anger. He left the Navy as a middle-rank officer because of his injuries. His father and grandfather were four-stripe admirals. The only way he can equal or surpass their standard is by becoming the President, Commander-in-Chief. It's a Freudian thing.......................
YOUR theory is feeble at best, and flawed, there was nothing stopping McCain from staying in the Navy, HE CHOOSE to leave had he stayed he could have reached Admiral,
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#395
Sam -
Got me. That was an ignorant example and I'm now eating humble pie instead of old dried out cake. Tastes better, tho.
Hopefully you see the point I was trying to make. The people who benefit from trickle down are not small business owners, are not average wage earners. The trickling only seems to go to high end clothes designers, yacht makers, and execs who can raid companies and then jump with a golden chute.
Gee. Guess Joe the Plumber is pretty safe in voting McCain..and, certainly I can see the attraction!
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What happened to the republican values?
1. Small government
2. Individual liberty including govt not interfering in an individual's life
3. Fiscal responsibility
The right wing loons are against no 2 and now want govt to enforce"morality". Scary. Inching closer to Taliban and Iran, ironically the same forces US is fighting and to some extent for the same reason.
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Everyone who thinks well of America keeps saying what warm,generous, openminded people they are. I'm not seeing much of that at in this election.
This is odd. McCain built his reputation on not being a neoconservative. Rush Limbaugh and company were previously knocking him. And Obama was being talked up as a decent middle of the road chap not like that dangerous radical Hilary Clinton. Check out the Telegraph's coverage of Obama's success in the Iowa caucus, for example. This was going to be a civilised campaign with good reasons for supporting McCain- if a Republican could win by not being a redneck that would deal the right a more fatal blow than any Democrat victory.
Then he blew it by picking Palin as his running mate. It amazes me how republicans are still seen as somehow common sense people while Democrats are tree hugging wirdos living on the margins of society. Since 1988 Republicans have either lost presidential elections or won them narrowly by clinging on in some of the country's least developed areas. They have ceased to be competitive on the West Coast, New England, and other developed and well-educated areas that are best placed to shape a good future for the US. If a centre left party were in this shape they would be under constant pressure to reinvent themselves. Why haven't they made more of solid small-c conservative values of decency and living within your means, and not hating people because they are different? Then they would be better placed to take on Obama's dull worthiness and his splashing out ridiculous money on advertising. That is Obama's drawback, (he's no socialist, believe me). I support Obama, with reservations, because reason must triumph over superstition fear and hate.