Nailing a sneezing maverick
In times of crisis you really need a maverick at the top. Or perhaps, the American people are beginning to wonder, not. In the swing states they are swinging away from McCain. The candidate's behaviour is surely the cause of this, rather than any new Obama effort. For McCain to go on television with his dramatic statement but not mention that Obama had called him earlier in the day was simply bizarre. Did he think the Obama people would forget? Or not mention it? I talked to a senior Republican a few weeks ago who said "I hope John doesn't catch a cold" - well, he has. He is sneezing and his party is worried.
This measured piece makes sense and there will be plenty more partisan attacks out there. Now if he goes to the debate he will look as if he has been dragged there; if he doesn't go he will look frightened. This is an unhappy situation he has created entirely for himself. To panic and dash about the nation suspending campaigns and mentioning 9/11 will seem odd to most Americans. President Bush looked much calmer and Barack Obama - with his laconic observation that presidents have to be able to focus on more than one thing at a time - nailed him. There is plenty of time for the tables to be turned but this is Obama's week - a strong debate showing would put him in a very strong postion for the final month of campaigning ....
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It's only a debate if 2 people show up.
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Bravo Barack Obama
McCain may as well drop the ticket. He is finished.
The greatest country in the world cannot afford a drama queen and an ignorant religious radical at the top.
McCain knows nothing about the economy. Nothing he can do about the crisis, except add fuel to the fire by distracting the lawmaker from the issue at hand.
THe bailout is a short term solution, but the president is going to be a very big part of the long term solution. McCain today showed that he is a man in panic, that he is a coward.
And Palin on her latest interview showed she is nothing but a horse fly.
Obama for President.
McCain may as well not show up at the debate and call this race over.
The American people are hurting too much to ignore McCain's bluff.
gunsandreligion...do you know how many zeros are in 700 billion?
does your Palin with a budget of 15 million for 600,000 people know how to handle 700 billion for 300 million people?
What a shame on McCain. What an insult to America. What a disturbing situation.
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McCain can not duck this debate. People want the debate to go on (about 70% in most polls). If the economy is such an issue to McCain, what about the five million dollars that Mississippi, one of our more 'economically challenged' states could lose if this debate is postponed or changed?
This is a political ploy that will not help McCain, especially since Obama has been invited by Bush to meet with both him and McCain tomorrow to discuss the issue.
Once again, FEAR is being used to motivate our votes.
How far will we allow fear to kill our ability to reason?
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McCain's erratic behavior under pressure will probably lose him the election. We need a (palatable) plan to pull us out of the mire. By going back to Washington, he's meddling in the mire at the exact time that we need somebody to remain standing on the bank with a tow cable.
What a sticky spot! He isn't wanted in Washington it seems, and he doesn't want to be anywhere else. He couldn't have done something about this in the 30-odd years he resided there? It has to be now?
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Check out :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_recessions_in_the_United_States
Just be grateful that if we do slip into depression, it's likely not to last as long or be as devastating as the Panics of 1819 or 1837. A recession really isn't the end of the world.
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McCain HAS to debate or be accused of cowardice, which is already happening on many blogs.
He is a military man and this is anathema. My prediction is that he will find some way to accept the situation and debate Obama on Friday.
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I am feeling robbed, like my wallet was taken and my credit used without my permission.
My take home of a dollar is now worth seventy cents, taxed on the blindside. The way GW just looked at the monitor, read his prompter, I didn't believe he thought robbing us could be so easy.
And I defended him when others called him the fool, or mocked his manner of speaking, his cabinet, or the Oil and big money buddies,.. now his 'truth' is unvieled to my blind eyes,... and I've been sold out.
I paid my bills, my mortgage and raised my children,.. not in a mansion, no I lived within my means, and thieves, loan sharks, low lifes and the rich made by such actions will get the assistance for the home they shouldn't have bought, the loan they can't repay, the vacations they took and the credit they mishandled and I get the bill,.. the tax bill.
There is no believing in a Government that fails the borders, robs me with "illegals" being allowed in my pocket, criminals running corporations with my investments, thieves selling short with stock they don't own, this is our Government, no protection for the hardworking, taxpaying citizen, no, protect the criminals, thats what a criminal government does, then bail them out,prop them up with money you steal from the citizen.
I want prosecution.
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To#5Regularjosephina
I so agree!
Fear is a mind killer! Most of this is tied to people's fear. Many are frightened, even those with means and much of the economy is being crippled by this fear.
The last election was won by exploiting fear.
I hope this time people will not let this work.
I have enjoyed your posts and I think that we both might be some old 'dogs' with a few tricks for surviving the hard times. I hope we do not have to use them.
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To#7Dougtexan
I am so sorry, please see my comment #382 to you on the previous thread.
Now, I must say good night but I will not say sleep well.
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Maverick is just another term for erratic or unpredictable of which McCain is all of the above. I mean like what an emotional drama queen. Next thing you know he'll start screaming that "Charlie" is in the "wire" and start sleeping in a pup tent with a hatchet.
The last thing we need is to have him running around the halls of congress stirring everybody up as they are trying to hammer out a deal to save the "new world economy". What's he going to pull next? Who knows, maybe he will threaten to suspend the November elections!
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Obama so reminds me of FDR in late 1932/early 1933. One and all pleaded with the man to cooperate on plans to save the banking system, and he ignored them all.
Politics trumped all, and everyone.
I am deeply opposed to the bailout, but even more deeply offended by Obama's toxic political posturing.
This isn't change--it's FDR, LBJ, and Carter redux.
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regular_josephina, personally, I believe that
the malfeasance of the Bush administration has
put the US in as poor a situation as it has ever
been in its history.
As far as comparisons go, I think this could be
almost as bad as the Great Depression if not
treated properly. I'm not sure that Paulson's
plan will really solve the problem.
If Paulson believes that clearing up the credit
system will somehow cause real estate values
to stabilize, then I believe that he is wrong.
Only balance between supply and demand
can do that, and any significant increase in
prices of real estate above replacement cost
is unsustainable.
The real problem is not that we need a bailout;
it is that a bailout may not work.
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One assumes that an experienced politician examines a situation carefully and makes a reasoned decision. We assume, for instance that McCain's choice of Palin was a well-considered tactical move (even though possibly wrong-headed). Now we may assume that there is a special advantage behind his decision not to debate, but that we cannot see what it is yet.
Maybe we have it all wrong. Could it be that McCain is too impulsive and emotional to be well thought out. Could it be that we are seeing the early stages of dementia. Could he be having a recurrence of melanoma and not know it. If internal, melanoma can be hard to detect.
That man makes me more nervous every day.
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And, Justin, considering that you actually have
considerable formal training in Economics (whereas
I only have a semester of Samuelson under my
belt), you should be knowledgeable about the
potential severity of the situation.
There are events which are more important than
debates!
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If it wasn't all so serious, it would be a farce. How on earth does "flying back to Washington to deal with the crisis" show the quality of 'leadership' everyone's being going on about for months?
"What can he do when he gets there?" asked a Newshour presenter; "Well, he can vote, just as Senator Obama can . . ." said James Kumaraswami. Excactly. He's not going off with a Superhero plan, is he?
That hardly requires suspending a presidential campaign with only about five weeks to go, does it? Anyway, doesn't that take two?
He's already done that over a hurricane that hardly happened: what next? Because Hugo Chavez says something rude about Yanks? Fifty Americans get blown up in Afghanistan? You just don't stop an election in full flow, at least here in Europe you don't, except for something like the Madrid train bomb happening only a day or two before the actual voting.
As it happens, I can't see that losing a debate between the pair of them would be much loss. Those I've heard have been so anodyne and vacuous they seem to me a total waste of time anyway.
Wouldn't everyone (and I especially include all us non-Americans here) be far better served by the pair of them explaining what they are going to do to fix this Wall Street disaster for the long term after January?
And isn't it time some people woke up and stopped bothering about acorns (whatever they are) and other trivialities? Allowing companies like Goldman Sachs (who are among the pepetrators of the scams—well. 'devices'— that led to this financial mess) to become "proper banks" just so they can hand over their share of their self-induced losses to the government and make yet more money by doing it hardly strikes me as a sensible solution.
All this means simply printing more money, which will create another disaster eventually, but hardly anyone in the US seems to be thinking through the consequences, certainly not the President, least of all the two presidential candidates.
This latest umpteen-trillion-dollar bailout has to be paid for somehow; and low taxes, cheap gasoline and decent wages aren't going to figure in paying for it. In that irritating American phrase, isn't it time both the candidates and many of the electorate "got real"?
Instead of, in an English phrase, "just pfaffing around". Talk about headless chickens, ever since Georgia attacked south Ossetia. US policies are really beginning to look totally out if it. Any problem: just throw another few billions of non-existent dollars at it and maybe it'll go away.
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To #10Ljbella
I was planning to be finished here for the night but your last sentence makes me ask this question:
Is there anyone who believes that Bush and company COULD NOT suspend elections for the sake of our economy and national security?
He has been given enough power by a foolish congress (Republican) and our people who allowed FEAR to over-ride reason.
Think about this and have fun!
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7, Doug.
They are not going to go after those economic criminals, because they are them. When I see what is going on I am so tempted to become a crook. But I couldn't get away with it because I am not an insider.
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McCain is becoming a laughing stock the world over - this pathetic attempt to try and bring back some credibility to his faultering campaign will hopefully not fool anyone. If he really wanted to address the dire economic issues facing the US why doesn't he shift Friday's debate subject instead of its actual date? How about dropping Foreign policy as the central theme of the debate and shift it to Economic Policy? Could it be that he and Palin know less about this than the average American who is getting socked by the fall-out of 26 years of McCain and his cohorts reaping the benefits of unbridled greed on Wall Street?
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justanotherprommer,
"As it happens, I can't see that losing a debate between the pair of them would be much loss. Those I've heard have been so anodyne and vacuous they seem to me a total waste of time anyway.
Wouldn't everyone (and I especially include all us non-Americans here) be far better served by the pair of them explaining what they are going to do to fix this Wall Street disaster for the long term after January?"
Exactly so! Both candidates are trumpeting their
"positions" as if they were relevant to anything.
Nobody cares about the "Surge" any more, or
whether somebody was right or wrong about
invading Iraq anymore.
Why don't they just say what they think is right
for the country? Are they afraid that they might
not be elected?
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I find it a little strange that Paulson is being trusted to manage this situation. After all, with 22 odd years experience at Goldman Sachs he can't deny knowledge of the way these derivatives were bundled or the future risks involved. As CEO of GS until as little as 2 years ago, he is one of the people that should be held responsible for this disaster. Instead he's being treated as the main advisor due to his financial acumen and integrity.
I wonder if the fact that his estimated net worth of $700 million may be seriously in jeopardy is a contributing factor to his solution, along with that of many in Congress and the Senate.
Be very wary ordinary Americans, the turkey doesn't vote for Thanksgiving Day.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
12, guns.
Unfortunately I feel the way you do. The dollar rebates didn't work. Lowering the interest rates didn't work. The bailout might work, but only as a stop-gap measure.
Is the problem that we no longer have a viable economy? We use foreign labor as anyone knows who who tries to call a credit card company or talk to a teckie about our computer problem. Sometimes their accents are so strong that I don'tknow what they are saying. Those people have jobs that shoud go to Americans.
And then we have an onerous welfare bill. We pay able-bodied people to sit around and do nothing; we pay women to have children out of wedlock. It is because of the welfare institution that our big cities are a shambles.
A problem the government cannot overcome is the loss of faith in government. I don't see any way out.
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12, guns.
And to make matters worse, we have jokers like McCain and Palin running for office.
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#7, DT, good luck! There are too many guilty
people out there. It's a good thing that they
probably don't know how to shoot straight!
#17, Ms. Marbles, let's figure out how to get
on the inside. I would say, stay after hours
and hide out in the vault, but apparently all
of the money is gone and has been replaced
by IOUs.
#2, goleooo, you're wrong if you have me
pegged as a McCain/Palin supporter. Palin
is a real liability for me, I just can't see her
in office.
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11, OldSouth.
You are conveniently forgetting that the crash of '29 did not happen on Roosevelt's watch.
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#23, Ms Marbles, it's amazing that we have
gotten as far as we have with crummy leadership
during most of our history.
I'm not sure what this shows, but, with increasing
competition on the global stage, I don't think that
we can afford mediocrity (or worse) at the top
anymore.
What we really need is a balanced budget ammendment
to be enforced by some new, as yet undesigned
means of execution for politicians. Considering
the damage that might ensue by our screw-ups,
perhaps even the Europeans could look the other
way this time.
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Bush gets bashed and that's bogus. Hurricane hits Weezeeana and they whine and blame the *president*, never mind their corrupt governor and a mayor who can't complain loudly enough. Texas just took a big hit but there's not a peep out of them. It's called preparedness and self-reliance.
McCain is bold. Palin rocks. We'll see how it all washes, but I like it. I'm definitely interested.
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# 12
I do NOT see how a bailout of investment banks will avert a depression.
It will only permit a more "graceful degradation" and let the big crooks steal more!
The 700 billion should be kept in reserve for the reconstruction effort (the repair of "Main Street" in the current jargon).
_________________________
Somehow, the mass has been convinced that some sort of a bailout is necessary
and thus the general discourse assumes this
our more honest media might focus on what such a bailout of investment banks could really accomplish
Saquer attempted this on HARDTALK, but it really needs a general media focus.
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#11. OldSouth: "Obama so reminds me of FDR in late 1932/early 1933. One and all pleaded with the man to cooperate on plans to save the banking system, and he ignored them all."
Now how do you figure that out? He was Governor of New York before he was elected President and even then did not take office until 4 March 1933. A report about the inauguration may be read in the Manchester Guardian and a transcript of FDR's speech here, in which he famously said "the only thing we have to fear is fear itself "
For a majority of Americans he saved their lives, putting people back to work - and since the introduction of the Social Security Act of 1935 was passed, I can only assume that you have been drawing a retirement pension courtesy of that act. If you feel so badly about FDR, you could always return the money!
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Senator McCain can look as though he is doing the right thing. It is true, he is not an economic guru (U.S. News and World Report's phrase), and McCain already admitted Obama is the better debater. What better way to escape.
Now do Senators Obama and Biden also head off to do the people's business in the Senate? That leaves, um Gov. Palin.
I suspect no matter McCain's motives it will be seen as a ploy.
I may be wrong. The next few days in this insane soap opera we are calling a campaign will tell. Just goes to show you truth is stranger than fiction.
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Bush wants the Congress to give the equivalent of a blank cheque. Those greedy investment banks have eaten a lot of money, and he wants to bail them out,no questions asked?
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26, guns.
Where is Johnny? Why isn't he out there defending his "great white hope"?
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So it seems that the current US administration has finally found a way to create a national crisis, a '9/11' for 2008. The original plan from the Cheney gang was to go to war with Iran and create a state of emergency over an oil price of over $2-300 a barrel. This would have created an emergency of oil and would have been responded with a state of emergency and probably martial law, for for the US and a postponement of the election.
It looks like plan B will be the way forward, the credit crunch. How long before it is referred to as the 'war' against the financial crises. They 'the Cheney gang' will stop at nothing to stop Obama. Even fulfilling the profecy that 'Bush will be the last US president, followed by civil war and armageddon.'
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Why is the BBC so biased against McCain? the man raised a VALID POINT. He is a Senator! Unlike Obama (who is absent more than just about any Senator), Sen. McCain SHOWS UP. You want McCain to lose to keep America weak.
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33, gra.
Actually I don't think they planned this. That is not to say that they won't capitalize on it and try to put the blame on the Democrats. That would be a little tough since Clinton left with the economic situation in good shape.
And Obama has a lot of ammunition. The idiot war has already cost more than the bailout, for instance, and is an ongoing expence. It has been draining the economy for several years.
People have noticed that something is wrong with McCain's left eye. And here I thought the problem was his brain.
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Of course, the Senator could be running off to Washington because his wife told him to stop wasting his time on something he's no good at (debates) and get his backside over to the Senate where he can do something usefull, like saving her fortune. Otherwise he might not get any more pocket money in the future.
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#33, grahmoor, you are giving the Bush-Cheney
team way too much credit!
Now, I have just concocted an alternate plan
to save the country, and of course, it will go
nowhere, but here it is:
1. We take that $700B that Paulson and Bernanke
want so badly, and start a new bank. We can
call it the Karl Marx 1st bank of Capitalism.
2. We lend money out with very strict standards;
first-born sons as collateral.
3. As existing crony-run banks go belly-up,
instead of trying to save them, we switch their
depositors over to KM_1_Cap. We don't have
to back up their deposits in cash, instead we
give them shares in this new bank.
4. We run this bank ruthlessly for profit, and
use the profit to pay off the national debt.
5. After 20 years or so, we break it up, and
sell off the pieces to the private sector.
20 or 30 million people go bust, but so what?
They knew the risks when they signed their
notes. If you can't afford to lose money, don't
gamble!
Those of us who were prudent get to flaunt
our wealth and become rock stars.
(plus, we get to drink really good beer!)
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Less than 3 hours after Justin Webb posted this on his blog he was on the Today programme saying that he thought McCain's instincts are right as his sense of urgency better reflects the mood whereas Obama risks being seen to "dally". The BBC's North America editor seems a bit like Indecisive Dave.
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Mccain is dropping out of d debate, because of the economic crisis? i agree with sen. Obama , a president is supposed to be multi-tasking.
I guess when things heat-up in Iraq, Mccain will drop everything and runoff to iraq.
How do people know who is well equiped to lead if you don't debate. MCCAIN you are doing your country a great disservice
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Please cover the Letterman Gaff it's hilarious and I think it's sums it up!
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#32, I'm sure that Mr. AAA will show up and
give you some flak.
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The swing states are swinging away from McCain because they have figured him out.
It has been reported that Mr. Davis, his campaign chairman cashed his last check (Last $15000 Pym) from Fannie Mae last month. This is after McCain vehemently making clear that Mr. Davis stopped lobbying for Fannie Mae long time ago.
Ms Fiorina (former CEO) got her $41M from HP to go away. How come she is not on TV anymore? I wonder. I trust McCain personally but why surround himself with such people? Not too smart.
Now he want to stop the bleeding by calling off the debate citing 'Country first'. If you can afford to go for photo shoot outs with international leaders and attend Clinton's summit; which is more important? In 40 days we will be voting for the next president. I think it would show ‘country first’ to have the debate and let the American people know who they are dealing with.
All week long McCain and his campaign have been rattled. They are all over the place like a fish outside the pond. Barack on the other hand has been very presidential and is ceasing the moment.
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#32. allmymarbles: "Where is Johnny?"
Probably not an early riser with all his club going - there's an even bigger choice in London than there is in Ibiza! Alcohol and the elderly don't always mix - and you can't go clubbing without some form of stimulant. He doesn't seem the type to use anything much stronger than a Babycham! Oh! I forgot, he's partial to a good red wine, so perhaps that's kept him asleep. As Scarlett said, "tomorrow is another day" and I feel sure he will surface shortly, if not in London, then in DC itself, advising Congress on what to do.
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I beg to disagree.
Obama does nothing but stand back and say I will decide on my reaction later and that is regarded as leadership? Insane liberals who constantly elevate Obama to the status of a messiah is ridiculous.
The man keeps running from his record and his own history. For once, I would like the mainstream media to REALLY look into Obama's past and record.
Enough is enough! If they can send a pack of wolves to investigate and dig up ANYTHING and EVERYTHING about Palin, they should do the same for Obama. Especially his ties to Rev Wright and Ayers. To just brush it off as saying "guilt by association" is ridiculous. The media should do its job and really investigate Obama. Shame on you all!!
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For Democratic supporters (and, aparrently economics experts), you folks seem to be extremely unsympathetic to your fellow Americans.
Failing mortgage-backed securities (CDO's etc...) means tightening credit availability... which, in turn, does not mean that the people with money will suffer... it means fewer loans for the people Sen. Obama claims to champion.
The bail out is going to happen. Not because Bush or McCain or Obama want it to... but because letting this system fail will hurt those citizens who are already at a disadvantage, and the rest of us as well.
You have to trust your elected representatives to act on your behalf; Democrats and Republicans; you can't claim that Republicans are solely responsible for this debacle. (...Then again, maybe all of the Democrats simply voted "present.")
Leadership means you show up when YOU think you're needed; not say "call me if you think you need me."
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Sen. McCain's effort fo trying to present this as a national crisis similar to 9/11 is not convincing. The impact of this on the electorate is mixed, from zero (people without stock or mortgage) to 100 (people with either stock or mortgage). In the final analysis, I have the feiling that the majority thinks that this is a disaster caused by greedy Wall Street executives and that the government has no business bailing them out. McCain thought and said so at the start, now it seems he's changed his mind. In view of all the bad polling results, I guess he had to do something dramatic to change the course of things
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Why does anyone think what Barack Obama is doing is not motivated by political needs. He wants to win of course and this move is very astute as it clearly puts the spotlight on Bush and the Republicans. Of course it is now up to the Democrats in the House not to appear to be partisan, that shouldn,t be difficult though, as this crisis is obviously one created by Wall Street.
Those folk who say they should pay the price may not necessarily be economic literate but this is the precise political point that the Democrtas will benefit from. As they said how will the rescue package support Main Street.
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If a presidential candidate can't juggle with balls up in the air.... oh dear!
And you don't suspend a campaign for a meeting... you leave it in the hands of your vice-presidential candidate... that's what she's there for. Oh dear... maybe not!
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46. At 08:00am on 25 Sep 2008, Parrisia wrote:
"The impact of this on the electorate is mixed, from zero (people without stock or mortgage) to 100 (people with either stock or mortgage). "
Unfortunately, everyone is involved, especially those with pension funds and if the banks won't lend this will also affect 1,000s of businesses, which could go under leaving many jobless.
The whole financial system is a house of cards and reminds me of the agreement offered between Peer Gynt and the Trolls, in the House of the Mountain Kings: "I'll believe your lies, if you'll believe mine".
What is scandalous, is that Bush pushed through legislation, a while back, that took away bankruptcy protection against credit card companies without insisting on tighter regulations governing their issue of credit.
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Christopher Hitchens' latest piece in Slate argues that Obama hasn't been in attack mode because he's afraid of being President, that he really only intended to lay the groundwork for 2012 and now is in over his head.
He repeated this theory during an interview with the Montreal Gazette yesterday (see their site for article), saying "He [Obama]'s like the dog chasing the car. He doesn't know what he'll do when he actually catches it."
I think Hitch perfectly described one of the candidates with that quip, just not the right one.
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I didn't catch all of McCain's prepared little speech, but I'm pretty sure at the end of it he said his goodbyes and walked off. Obama's I did watch and his came across as more improvised and, more importantly, took questions from the gathered press.
McCain avoided questions from the press and is now trying to avoid the debates. Does he think Americans are that stupid that they won't notice?
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Well, if McCain does not turn up, I suppose Obama will have the luxury of a nationally broadcast in-depth two hour interview in which he has the time to give thoughtful intelligent answers and reassure people with the calm of his persona. That would be devastating for McCain.
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The man with the real answer is out there, his name is Ron Paul.
There is still a chance for America to see sense. The fundamental problem is the FAIT (paper ) money system, soon the US dollar will be worth the same as the Zimbabwe dollar, whenever a problem comes a long they just print up more paper money.
Obama / McCain more of the same !
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#49, David_de_Jong, actually Joe Biden was
the prime architect of the bill. Hillary sought
to modify its provisions, to no avail.
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Obama is very intelligent, yes. He is charismatic; yes. He is a speech maker; yes.
But what about integrity and other factors? In a time when America' enemies are joining hands together more boldly; In a time when haters of the US and the west are expanding their network, can America be led by an Obama?
Does he have the pedigree? Does he have the integrity? Does he have the grit?
I ask again, can America afford a friend an extreme and a follower of a hater pastor as its president?
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The man with the real answer is out there, his name is Ron Paul.
There is still a chance for America to see sense. The fundamental problem is the FAIT (paper ) money system, soon the US dollar will be worth the same as the Zimbabwe dollar, whenever a problem comes a long they just print up more paper money.
Obama / McCain more of the same !
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The German Finance Minister says today that he could not interest either US of British officials in raising standards for the financial industry- he said they wanted to protect and foster the industry.
George Soros has come out strongly against Paulson's bailout plan.
Christine Legarde (France Finance Minister) says some kind of morality is required of the Finance Ministry (did anyone mention SocGen?).
Sarkozy is to present some grand scheme.
No one has yet specified exactly how the proposed bailout is to "save"anything
it seems only to offer more graceful degredation.
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Yes, Americans. Get angry. $10,000 per family to bail out a Wall Street that's been overpaid for years. It's necessary but it's shocking.
Henry Paulson may look like the knight in shining armor but he was head of investment banking and then CEO at Goldman Sachs earning up to $30 mil per year before he became Treasury Secretary. Looks like he jumped ship just in time.
And how are American tax-payers supposed to pay for the bail-out? I thought they were already running a huge deficit. They too have been living on the never-never for far too long so they don't exactly have the cash stashed in a drawer.
Use the anger, Obama. The bail-out is necessary but still be angry.
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The German Finance Minister says today that he could not interest either US or British officials in raising standards for the financial industry- he said they wanted to protect and foster the industry.
George Soros has come out strongly against Paulson's bailout plan.
Christine Legarde (France Finance Minister) says some kind of morality is required of the Finance Ministry (did anyone mention SocGen?).
Sarkozy is to present some grand scheme.
No one has yet specified exactly how the proposed bailout is to "save"anything
it seems only to offer more graceful degredation.
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The republicans should steer the debate towards immigration? Right. You spent a trillion dollars on an ill-judged and badly executed war. Now another trillion bailing out a Wall Street that you should have been regulating more closely. Who is to blame? Of course, it's all those Mexicans jumping the border fence!
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I do hope, Justin, that American voters will be able to see this 'suspension' of campaigning for what it really is: campaigning. But I'm not so sure it will be as clear as you say. If last night's debate between Democrat and Republican campaign strategists on Newsnight was anything to go by, the louder Republican talking heads will try and make Obama look like he's shirking - and they may succeed. Then again, you probably understand American voters better than I do... And I also agreed with what the Democrat said in response: 'The American people are tired of being spoken to in this way'.
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23. At 06:13am on 25 Sep 2008, allmymarbles wrote:
12, guns.
And to make matters worse, we have jokers like McCain and Palin running for office."
This is the shameful thng. There are plenty of intelligent, measured republicans around who would have made good candidates, but instead there is "Johnny come never" andf poodle Palin who seems to boast of her ignorance.
After Bush one has to wonder whether right-wing politics in the US actually works against intelligent leadership andf that unless one is practically a buffoon, one has no chance.
We are a long way from Theodore Roosevelt and Herbert Hoover.
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mccant has suspended his campaign to help solve the financial crisis. He of course wont have time now to debate. He is obviously afraid Obama will make larger gains after a debate in which mccain will be shown to as stupid as he really is. Another ploy that wont work. American voters will see through this attempted slight of hand. gop will praise his bipartisan sacrifice. What can he contribute in truth. Just slow things up with unneeded meddling.
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McCain in picking Palin told us she is the best qualified candidate for the vp. Best qualified to help him run the country and even take over as president? No way!!!! I truly don't think he sincerely believes that himself. I haven't bought that just like I am not buying his reasons for suspending his campaign and proposing to postpone the debate. To me both moves clearly indicate "me first" as opposed to "country first".
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63.
Perhaps we need to emend the idea that 'McCain has suspended his campaign to solve the financial crisis' to 'McCain has suspended his campaign to solve his financial crisis'. He has just saved himself a couple of days of advertising while getting extensive news coverage. I suspect his primary motive for this is to make his own pennies stretch farther.
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@ David H 58
10,000 USD per family? You have to redo your sums.
24,000 dollars per person, or for a family of 5 120,000 dollars.
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Goleeo, yours is the post of the day so far Kudos!
Now for mine:
John McCain is a coward.
If you're man enough to be a part of a party that is responisble for the current
economic debacle, you should be man enough to explain yourself in a televised debate.
John McCain obviously is not man enough to explain in a debate, why the standard of the economy has diminished on his party's watch. This scenario is quite simply untenable and McCain knows this. If he opts out of the debate with Obama, his credibility will plummet further into the abyss it currently resides in.
As I said to the deluded individuals who continue to post misguided rubbish on this blog, the debates would be the pivotal part of this presidential race. And we've seen from McCain's behaviour and reactions that what I said was true. Methinks that Mr McCain is walking on a VERY thin line at the moment.
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#62 Simon21
There are plenty of intelligent, measured republicans around who would have made good candidates, but instead there is "Johnny come never" andf poodle Palin who seems to boast of her ignorance.
****************
This IS exactly the problem. It seems that the nice, intelligent guys never seem to run for office. Instead you have people who talk about lipstick and other loony issues instead of the ones that really matter. On the issues that do matter, the candidates are utterly clueless.
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Old South,
You have just demonstrated the lightning grasp of history that all too many conservatives have.
FDR was Gov of NY State in 32.
It was REPUPLICAN President Hoozer who failed to act in the banking sector and further deepened the Great Depression.
Cheers
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Obama's reaction shows just what a fool he is. If this bill doesn't pass, there will be a global depression within six months.
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McCain reminded me of Al Haig after Reagan got shot. Simultaneously creating media panic while trying to reassure' (i.e. assert non-existant authority). He has blinked. He's done for.
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ref #57
Since George Soros made his ill gotton gains by financial speculation he is not better than the current Wall Street players.
Soros is also part of the code Pink, Acorn, Hate America crowd
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#50
Anyone who reads and agrees with Christopher Hitchens is a fool. He's a self-obsessed idiot. I remember reading the nonsense he wrote in the Socialist Worker. His ideas are pedantic and controversial for pedantic and controversialist's sake then. Now he's a Neo-Con, and his ideas are even more trash. There's better right wing writers around - like JohnAAA!
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Who is this Obama guy? I like him.
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avid de Jong (#49)
It is indeed delicate issues such as that (legislation that takes away bankrupcy protection against credit-card companies without tihter regulation of the credit-lending polices) that truly test the intergrity of politicians. I wonder how Senators Obama and McCain actually voted on this
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JohnAAA
My Army officers number comprised x6 digits. It is a number ex military men and women have indelibly etched in their minds for ever. How many digits was your RAF number? Out of interest what years did you serve and to what rank?
347 Allymarbles - overnight
Thank you for sharing that background - very moving. How the lessons are forgotten by mankind.
364 and 367 Fritz - overnight
Right on the button on 364. Being ex military, I have visited that topic too in the last couple of weeks and offered observations so wont bang on.
On 367, I caught interesting commentary early this morning from a number of seasoned commentators (GMT plus 5 here)........ i) on presidential debates having gone ahead, regardless, even during incredible events such as the D Day landings and more and ii) the reported McCain Washington return being pure and simple political posturing and opportunism. ......... Not that I feel that these scripted sessions called debates are anything more than exchanges of pre-rehearsed views and policies etc, the programmed meeting on Friday should happen. Location is not an issue.
Apologies for repeating myself, but this is a national crisis with international ramifications. Total responsibility rests with the current Republican administration and, believe it or not, those highly remunerated executives, running staffs, with direct responsibility for the direct oversight and stewardship of the US Banking and Finance sector. It is a here and now problem precipitated by failure - pure and simple.
What rankles with me big time is the notion that the collective of individuals above will look to point sole blame at Wall Street and then dress up what can only be described as an unprecedented experiment as some sort of *didnt we do well* rescue of the American tax payer whilst seeking political leverage in garnering credit for doing so!
Thankfully, seemingly experienced, astute, mindsets cross party, who were not necessarily close enough or directly empowered in roles, are not allowing this package to be blustered through without careful conditions of accountability being attached. All must hope that a final solution materialises just as soon as possible but it has to be the right solution.
In the mean time it is absolutely right that messrs McCain and Obama adhere to their senatorial obligations and responsibilities.
But let the brightest and best now deliver a solution to a problem that regrettably the incumbent President and a supposed champion of experience, judgement and maverick qualities as in *the fundamentals of our economy are strong* x10 days ago actually know pretty much zero about.
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@ fabfourtune 66
10,000 USD per family? You have to redo your sums.
24,000 dollars per person, or for a family of 5 120,000 dollars.
I think not. 700 billion is 700,000 million there are 300 million people in the US. That's $2,300 per person. Anyway, it's a lot of dollars...
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# 68 Paul raises an interesting issue. It seemed during the primaries that all the Republican candidates who put themselves forward (Huckabee, Romney etc) were flawed in terms of gaining sufficient national support to mount a presidential campaign. McCain, trading on his "maverick" image, gained the nomination by default.
I have always felt that this would come back to bite him. Someone like McCain who has impulsively and publicly opposed many of his own party's policies over the years, gathers a lot of enemies. McCain was quite evidently panicked by his lack of support in the Republican base into picking the far right Palin as his running mate.
It would now seem that even the White House are taking revenge on past disployalties by leaving him out of the loop on the financial crisis. Anyone in his position who was trusted by the President and his aides would have been forewarned and well briefed about the situation so that he could react in a statesmanlike fasion.
It is evident that over the past few days he has been on his own, hung out to dry, and the more he resorts to knee jerk reactions like unilaterally abandoning Friday's debate, the more of a muddle he gets into.
It's all very well to indulge in maverick behaviour if you are happy to remain outside the inner circle. If you want to lead your party and become President of the USA you need to be trusted by that party.
Given his obvious lack of knowledge of the impending financial crisis could it be that those in the know could not take the risk of giving him any prior information because they had no faith in him ?
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Today, at the White House Geroge W. Bush Junior ( ahmmmmm.... ) will be reading out his will to his two most capable sons ( and probable heir to the throne ) of how much they are going to inherit from him. He will be passing on his legacy to the two of them..today (ahmmmmm...) which will be remembered by the World for centuries to come ( The Bush legacy ....ahhhmmmmmm...). The son who correctly understands it, packages it and markets it to the common people and to the whole world ( ahhhhmmmm....) will be the next King ( ahmmm.....) of U.S.A. ( THE WORLD'S GREATEST NATION ahmmmmmm.........). Bush Junior is going to retire and learn sky diving from Bush senior ( ahhhhhhhhhmmmm.......) . It is this little two sons of his ( one who wants to change even for a change and the other ahhhhhhmmmmmmm..........who is learning to spell economics ) that he has shown his full faith upon, he the all mighty........( ahhhhhhhhmmmmm.......)
.......................a cout ballard from the palace of King George Bush Junior ahmmmm... Washington D.C.
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There seems to be some fairly substantial speculation out in the blogosphere that McCain's left eye is revealing signs of a serious medical condition and possibly a minor stroke. Clearly that would also change the election if it were true. Perhaps this needs watching and maybe part ofthe concern about exposing McCain to a debate tomorrow night; or, of course, it may merely be idle speculation.
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That McCain's advisers would allow him to do something so foolish as play chicken in the last six weeks of a Presidential campaign is stunning. Did they not think to wonder what might happen if Obama chose to call his bluff?
As Justin noted, McCain now loses whether he goes to the debate or not, with going the lesser of two evils that were either created or magnified by his own actions.
One thing for sure, it's irrelevant that Obama argued to ahve the first debate on foreign policy. Any debate now, short of a major terror attack in the US between now and Nov 4, will be squarely on the economy. As will debates 2 and 3, and the VP one too - although Biden may well chose to go after Palin on foreign affairs anyway.
Why would McCain do such a thing? Was he that spooked by the movement in the polls? Was he that scared of a debate on the economy that he has managed to bring about the exact thing he was so fearful of? Was his judgement so poor and his maverick tendencies so strong that he felt bluffing Obama was wise at this point? Or was he so naive to assume politics could or would be put aside in a time of coincident campaign and crisis that was not, actually, 9/11-ish in immediacy to the average citizen?
Whatever the reason, it has made him look spooked, scared, foolish, naive or some combination of the above. His favourable numbers will surely suffer considerably, the first polls to come out will doubtless be eye-watering, and it seems highly likely that he may have just conceded the Presidency to Obama.
I wonder who will play McCain in the movie ... ?
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I have several questions but I'll only post 4:
1) Is 80% of the taxes paid by the top 20% earners (the rich) or is the ratio 98/2?
2) Were the dem.s that wanted to make sub-prime loans mandatory (it gave the lower class the power to participate) the same ones that voted for the war?
3) Wasn't the potential of a populous vote proved in the LA riots, HS with bullying, and in the south with Lynch mobs?
4) Since the radical side of Islam attacked the US on it's own soil/embassy/ship 12 times during the 90's, why isn't the US being criticized for not defending itself?
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Very McChicken-ly.
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81. At 10:54am on 25 Sep 2008, MarkfromOxford wrote:
There seems to be some fairly substantial speculation out in the blogosphere that McCain's left eye is revealing signs of a serious medical condition and possibly a minor stroke. Clearly that would also change the election if it were true. Perhaps this needs watching and maybe part ofthe concern about exposing McCain to a debate tomorrow night; or, of course, it may merely be idle speculation."
McCain is certainly showing signs of erratic behaviour.
This latest is bizzare - how does postponing a key election challenge going to help with the Bush Plan?
His selection of Palin was bad enough, but now it seems he is making things up as he goes along.
The US has held presidential elections in the middle of wars, a debate should be no problem.
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John McCain is trying everything in the book to draw some attention. Now he received the biggest handout from the White House: GWB's first ever speech on the economy. It comes about 13 months late. Why a handout? Because it is telling McCain what the issue is: not Iraq, not some hallucination about Russia or Georgia, not Palin's hairdo -- which hides the vacuum -- no, it's the economy, stupid.
But here Big Mac is filled with roughage of sorts. He has no idea what's going on. Like many GOP aspirants, he is a lazy thinker and a lazy doer, preferring sound bites to substance. So he wants out now for a while to lick the wounds, restore the campaign and find some sort of muzzle for Palin, who, when she opens her mouth even in the most innocuous places, manages to sound like a frustrated teenager.
Some call it a "Hail Mary pass". I call it cheating. In the real world, you have to go on and on and not lose your cool. McCain does lose it. He always has, and he always will. He is not a team player, he is a cheat, and not a very smart one either. He lies and distorts when its convenient. But, as they say in German, lies have short legs...
As for his mentor Bush: he is finally appealing to bipartisanship. That man is finally being forced into the realization that you cannot go it alone, especially on the meager pseudo-ideas from neocon think tanks.
I can only hope that Americans from the right wing realize that we also need our allies these days, really badly, and that they are waiting for some reasonable people to take over in Washington, not some hissy frat boys like Bush and McCain. Our chair is waiting, but at some point everybody is going to start the meal without us.
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It's very easy for some of you to immediately blame republicans for this current crisis, most of which is a direct result of the housing and credit disaster.
John McCain warned the nation of sure financial disaster if Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac weren’t reformed way back in 2005. Now the Democratic Freddy Mac/Fannie Mae economy is being bailed out by the feds by maybe as much as one trillion (1,000,000,000,000) dollars in IOU’s to back up failing banks. These banks are just the latest to fall in the domino effect of policies and regulations (or lack thereof) that are now in place that allowed people to buy homes that couldn’t afford them -even those that did not have an actual job.The facts are that the Bush Administration rang the alarm bell to fix Freddie and Fannie way back in 2003.
They had ”recommended the most significant regulatory overhaul in the housing finance industry since the savings and loan crisis a decade ago,” says a September 11, 2003 New York Times story on the subject. And who in Congress was opposed to reforming these two giant quasi-government entities way back five years ago? None other than, Representative Barney Frank (D-Mass.), who was promoted by the Democrats since then, and is now the chairman of the House Financial Services Committee, which oversees the mortgage giants“These two entities—Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac—are not facing any kind of financial crisis,” Frank said back in 2003, as the ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee. “The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing.And what about Barack Obama’s involvement? This is from canadafreepress.com:
“Mortgage lenders were forced by congressional Democrats, specifically Barack Obama and the Congressional Black Caucus, to lower lending guidelines to welfare levels in order to make homeownership possible for Democrat constituents who would otherwise never qualify to own a home.
Let's talk accountability.
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McCain? I don't think so #84. I would vote for Ron Paul if he was still running (last time I looked he wasn't) and he hadn't endorsed the statist devil himself: Ralph Nader.
Now I don't know who I'll go for, but it wont be McCain or Obama. I'm investigating the LP right now.
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Re:#81. McCain may well be having a stroke, but his behaviour is erratic at best and certainly not what we would expect of a Presidential candidate. There is no good reason to postpone the debates, his and the VPs'. Letterman's sarcasm at his rushing back to Washington was justified. Just what is it he can do? Make it more political than it already is as the wealthy ask for a handout from we the taxpayers with a 'trust us (again)' attitude? Go slow on the bailout and get on with debates I say. CEOs should not be rewarded with bonuses and golden parachutes, there should be adequate oversight, and judges should be able to amend mortgage contract terms. A fireman who sets a fire then rushes to the scene to save us is hardly a hero.
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soros' comments in the ft today are well worth reading.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/9973c5b0-8a6d-11dd-a76a-0000779fd18c.html
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McCain is intimately involved in the deregulation, which facilitated the current financial crisis.
Although Obama is the best candidate in this very poor field, it is still an uphill struggle for him, due to prejudice and the power and prevalence of the the right wing noise machine.
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Senator McCain is playing the role of the hero and that's not the way you win an election like this one. He's pretending that by "suspending" his campaign, (and not attending the debate) all the voters will believe his priority is to save the economy, when in fact, everyone knows this is a political movement that makes him be seen as one who takes precipitated decisions and "cannot handle more than one issue at the same time". Obama should remain in his position of attending the debate on Friday, and if the voters are good observers, the precipitated decisions of McCain will favor Obama. I wouldn't be surprised if McCain's staff is feeling nervous this days.....
Note: You should watch David Letterman's reaction to McCain's last minute cancellation to be a guest in the programme...:)
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Here is Letterman's reaction
Canceled guest spot
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Even those that praised McCain's alleged restraint and "presidential behavior" a week ago when he tried to reassure people that there was no crisis are now having trouble with the transformed McCain who has suspended his campaign because of a crisis with dire consequences to our country.
Obama should have enjoyed a comfortable lead all along on the basis of having the best proposals to solve our fiscal and economic problems, salvage what is left of our foreign policy and the knowledge he demonstrates on every issue, but the dramatic changes we are seein in all the polls are due, mostly, to McCain self-destructing.
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#37
I'm in.
Beery Sam
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Republican campaigns have generally been nothing if not disciplined. Bush was able to pull off the win in 2000 and especially 2004 by blitzing through waffling, directionless Democratic campaigns. I think privately many Republican insiders would express dismay at the direction of the McCain campaign. His campaign is becoming increasingly erratic, and the "suspension" is just the latest in a series of what seem like knee-jerk decisions. By contrast, the Obama campaign boasts the kind of organization that used to be a Republican hallmark (his vice-presidents verbal vomit aside). McCain's call to move the vice-presidential debate will likely be seen as a ploy to buy Palin more time, especially after her dreadful interview with CBS News. McCain himself is pushing back a debate on foreign policy, which should be his strong suit! A maverick is not a bad thing to be, but McCain's handlers need to figure out some way to get this guy under control before his campaign goes into a permanent tailspin.
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#86
Victoria,
Great post. I miss real Republicans (the ones who like puppies) and the good work they did in the past.
Unfortunately now all we get from the party is the 'My pet goat' look and the culture war. Decent fiscal conservatives have no party, and that is a crime.
Sad Sam
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One is reminded of the Ballad of Sir Robin:
Brave Sir Robin ran away,
Bravely ran away, away.
When danger reared its ugly head,
he bravely turned his tail and fled.
Yes, brave Sir Robin turned about
And gallantly, he chickened out.
Bravely taking to his feet,
He beat a very brave retreat,
Bravest of the brave, Sir Robin
This gets more and more interesting.
Puzzled Sam
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Seems to me that whoever wins the election it'll be Paulson pulling the strings. Not so much democratic capitalism or even socialism, but autocratic corporatism.
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I have no problem with Mr Webb's obvious advocacy of Obama over McCain. But I do think this page should carry a large and visible disclaimer stating that these are the views of Mr Webb and not the BBC...
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McCain is an insult to America.
The republicans showed they are not patriots, they are cowards.
Anywhere in the world, regardless of your color, regardless of your religion, regardless of your ethnicity, IF YOU CHALLENGE A MAN IN DUEL, IF YOU INSULT THE MAN BEFORE HAND, IF YOU SET A DATE AND A PLACE FOR THE DUEL TO TAKE PLACE, AND THAN YOU RUN AWAY FROM IT FOR WHATEVER REASON:
THAT LADIES AND GENTLEMAN IS COWARDICE!
What is McCain planning to do if another Katrina strikes? Tell the hurricane to come back latter because at the moment he is busy fighting Russia?
Doug,
I am glad that perhaps you are seeing a little light. Just perhaps.
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@2 "THe bailout is a short term solution"
No it is not, it is a massive and unconstitutional theft from the American people to bail out the bankers. Not one cent of the proposed bailout will go to those home-owners that are in trouble and being ripped off by foreclosure agents. Not one cent of that money will be overseen or checked by any regulatory authority. It is SOLELY a mechanism for bailing out the corrupt billionaire bankers from their personal losses.
Bernanke even wants the toxic paper purchased at a premium, well above market value. So there will be ZERO return for the taxpayer. For the tax payer there is NO upside in this plan at ALL!
The American economy and those banks ARE going to fail anyway. The 526 trillion dollar derivatives market will see to that. At least with a total collapse there may be some way to construct an alternative, honest banking system in place of the robber-Barron system they have now.
Get rid of money from nothing fractional reserve banking of fiat currency.
Congress MUST vote NO to this bail out, which is reality is an enormous reward for the banks own grand theft.
Let the billionaires be foreclosed and hand over their mansions and yachts and then try them for their multi trillion dollar theft and the financial terrorism that they have brought to the global economy.
I am hearing more and more that it is time for the tar and feathers....
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America does not need this bailout. What they need is a lot of strong rope and a lot of tall trees to hang the theiving bankers and all the politicians that enabled them.
Then America could start to rebuild itself into something resembling a great country once more.
America: land of the free (lunch for the elite bankers) and the home of the debt (slave).
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As an interested observer, it seems to me Mc Cain, in his lust for the Presidency, has abandoned all his previous pricnciples and poliicies, and increasingly, his judgement.
The tragedy for America is he was not elected instead of Bush 8years ago, and that he is elected now instead of Obama.
It is partcularly sad that he has allowed his campaign team to resort to lying. America's last 2 Presidents were liars(Clinton on sex, Bush on WMD,to name but 2 examples), which has done such harm to the moral credibility of the USA and its influence. The last thing America and the world need is another one. Of course, in McCains case it may be the beginning of senility, so he forgets what his original position was!
But, it looks from a rational view Obama by default. lets hope he is as good as he sounds and cleans the stable.
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@99, "Seems to me that whoever wins the election it'll be Paulson pulling the strings. Not so much democratic capitalism or even socialism, but autocratic corporatism."
There is another word for that, it is fascism.
When the corporate elite bankers and the highest level of elite politicians are acting without any oversight or regulatory authority, when their decision cannot be challenged in a court of law, when freedoms are taken on a whim by executive fiat. Then that is full-blown FASCISM.
If this grand theft banking bailout bill is passed, then there will be NO DIFFERENCE AT ALL between the American system and Fascism. NONE at all!
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87. At 12:14pm on 25 Sep 2008, victoriausa wrote:
It's very easy for some of you to immediately blame republicans for this current crisis, most of which is a direct result of the housing and credit disaster.
John McCain warned the nation of sure financial disaster if Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac weren?t reformed way back in 2005. Now the Democratic Freddy Mac/Fannie Mae economy is being bailed out by the feds by maybe as much as one trillion (1,000,000,000,000) dollars in IOU?s to back up failing banks. These banks are just the latest to fall in the domino effect of policies and regulations (or lack thereof) that are now in place that allowed people to buy homes that couldn?t afford them -even those that did not have an actual job.The facts are that the Bush Administration rang the alarm bell to fix Freddie and Fannie way back in 2003.
They had ?recommended the most significant regulatory overhaul in the housing finance industry since the savings and loan crisis a decade ago,? says a September 11, 2003 New York Times story on the subject. And who in Congress was opposed to reforming these two giant quasi-government entities way back five years ago? None other than, Representative Barney Frank (D-Mass.), who was promoted by the Democrats since then, and is now the chairman of the House Financial Services Committee, which oversees the mortgage giants?These two entities?Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac?are not facing any kind of financial crisis,? Frank said back in 2003, as the ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee. ?The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing.And what about Barack Obama?s involvement? This is from canadafreepress.com:
?Mortgage lenders were forced by congressional Democrats, specifically Barack Obama and the Congressional Black Caucus, to lower lending guidelines to welfare levels in order to make homeownership possible for Democrat constituents who would otherwise never qualify to own a home.
Let's talk accountability.
Yes and we can start by admitting the truth.
The flawed bill proposed by among others Republican John McCain was sunk by Republicans.
The mortgage crisis grew under a Repoublican president and a republican administration and Republican houses of Congress.
These are simply facts whether you like them or not.
lets talk rationality here
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Absolutely. MC Cain must take the whole of America to be a bunch of fools. Fiirst he dropped the convention to seek more limelight when Gustav looked threatening and now this. Any right thinking person would know that he is just looking for that one thing to show that he is a leader. True that he was a POW and needs commendation but the White House? Seems to far for him now!!
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#20 - David_de_Jong
Probably for the same reason software houses employ far more hackers than they prosecute. Because an expert knowledge of how to screw something up is invaluable when trying to fix it.
As to the debate - debate or withdraw the ticket. The last thing the US needs at the moment is gutlessness dressed up as statecraft.
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#90 benagyerek
The Soros comments look a little contradictory or (more likely) I haven't grasped them very well.
He says, for instance:
Then later:
That something has to be done to keep the supply of credit flowing is unquestionable, it's vital to keep business turning over.
I also do not understand comments like #7 DougTexan. Is it not possible that something like this happens and no single person or even organisation is to blame ?
It is not true, as some other poster claimed, that McCain caused the deregulation that led to this. Quite the opposite.
The engine of the economy had become more and more complicated and eventually the Engine Management System software outran the regulatory software. The engine of the economy seized up.
I guess you can only meta-regulate that. I remember hearing that in their heyday, IBM used to recruit a lot of graduates partly just to prevent their competition from getting them.
Maybe regulatory organisations in the USA and UK need first pick from the University draft ?
Now the Church of England is talking about this latest capitalism and morality. It appears to various archbishops that capitalism has become disconnected from the reality of 'making things' by the complexity of these transactions.
I don't see how. I also don't see how anyone could ever have seen capitalism as 'moral'. It's just a machine. It's the people who use it who are whatever they are.
Here's the German Finance Minister's contribution, for what it's worth. It appears he suddenly got financial religion.
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"Since George Soros made his ill gotton gains by financial speculation he is not better than the current Wall Street players.
Soros is also part of the code Pink, Acorn, Hate America crowd"
Very very true, but that does not mean that the bail out of the billionaire banking families should continue.
He probably wants it to collapse so that he can come in and create the solution of a North American Union with a new currency of the Amero and a shiny new banking system, (that happens to be even more corrupt than the old one)
Americans should start their own local exchange trading schemes and stop paying ALL taxes to a thieving unconstitutional government
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John McCain's impulsive decision to suspend his campaign and seek postponement of the first Presidential debate, only lends credence to the conservative commentator George Will's analysis of McCain's recklessness and immaturity, further demonstrating that he is not fit to be President of the United States.
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#96, why are you so surprised that a "maveric" doesn't march in formation?
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purpleDogzzz, this all sounds good, but where
do we all hang out while all this collapsing is
going on? Plus, as they say, gold is hard to
eat and cold to wear.
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Surely $700billion would be better spent on welfare for people affected by the crisis rather restoring "confidence" in the stock market and banks. As if anything that George Bush would do would restore anyone's confidence.
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Actually, I have the answer to the whole problem.
Since the US is swimming in debt, instead of printing
dollars, we start having the treasury print "anti-dollars,"
which are dollars with a negative sign in front of
the denomination.
The world took our crappy currency because they
like pictures of our presidents, so who says they
wouldn't take "anti-dollars?"
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44. InsaneLiberals:
"The man keeps running from his record and his own history. For once, I would like the mainstream media to REALLY look into Obama's past and record."
McCain's actually making Obama step up to the plate. Obama has a way of remaining aloof. Not this time.
Obama was going to spend the 2 days prior to the debate studying. He's now got to cut his practice short and do some work. Tsk. Tsk.
87. victoriausa:
Old habits die hard. It's blame Bush, blah, blah, blah. Witness the difficulty with which our politicians are having turning from attack dogs into legislators. They keep flailing, looking for someone to blame (when they, themselves, are responsible for making laws).
They're simply out of practice when it comes to taking responsibility.
If they want to limit CEO pay, for example, they'll have to legislate it and take responsibility for its consequences.
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We have nothing to fear but fear itself? No, we have incompetents and liars to fear. It has been interesting to see the demeanor of the impoortant participants change over the past week.
Many are of the opinion that only poor inner city (read "black") mortgages are the cause of the trouble. Not so. I know personally of two foreclosures on wealthy folks in Florida with repeat business or financial failures. One, a father and son, owned a condo together which was foreclosed. The father owns another condo in the same building and a second (new) home in the Bahamas. He sold his million-dollar sailboat only four or five years ago. And now I must, by proxy, co-sign on his loan.
Bush is well on his way to dismantling what once was America.
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Another odd decision by McCain. What can he be thinking? He's looking more frail every time I see him, worrying...
Those people who are against Obama will always be so, regardless of the gaffes, panic and strange decisions of McCain and Palin.
Obama looks presidential, calm, and more importantly, ready to take control...
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It seems pretty silly to be calling for a public hanging of bankers when the credit market's drying up.
Is it that hard for Main Street to grasp what will happen to our economy if there's no credit?
Eight years of crying about Bush has left people incapable of rational thought.
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So WHO IS VOTING FOR McCAIN?
anyone knows where JOHNAAA is?
I hope the bloke is still alive. To a person of stonehard ego and blind faith like him, cowardice is a poison hard to swallow.
Hopefully no heart problems at the news of McCain's cowardly "Hail Mary" play.
This is historical!
We are 40 days away from giving the chance to lead the greatest nation of the last 3 centuries to a coward and a religious radical.
So much for principles, morals, and ethics in this great country of ours.
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wow...
what am I hearing...
is AndreainNY finally after 2 weeks of irrational thoughts, realizing that she has lost the capability to rationalize!
Well, welcome back Andrea.
I applaud your first step into the light.
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#7
"and I've been sold out."
Doug,
touching words from you. I actually have a feeling this is the first time you really wrote something that you yourself thought up.
Are you still willing to be "sold out" again?
Or are you willing to learn from your past?
It's okay to acknowledge that you might not be as clever, or as good, or as faithful, as others might be...
but what's not okay is to keep lying to yourself for the sake of people who have chosen to make a career at the expense of selling out those like you.
At the end of the day: NO ONE CARES ABOUT YOUR LIFE, YOUR CHILDREN'S LIVES, MORE THAN YOU DO.
It's up to you to make the right choice.
no government ever will.
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"116. At 1:41pm on 25 Sep 2008, AndreainNY wrote:
44. InsaneLiberals:
"The man keeps running from his record and his own history. For once, I would like the mainstream media to REALLY look into Obama's past and record."
McCain's actually making Obama step up to the plate. Obama has a way of remaining aloof. Not this time.
Obama was going to spend the 2 days prior to the debate studying. He's now got to cut his practice short and do some work. Tsk. Tsk."
You would prefer your politicians to make decisions without researching the issue?
Hmm that wasn't a terribly good idea for Bush was it?
"Old habits die hard. It's blame Bush, blah, blah, blah. Witness the difficulty with which our politicians are having turning from attack dogs into legislators. They keep flailing, looking for someone to blame (when they, themselves, are responsible for making laws). "
Well Bush is president of the US - it sorta usually comes with responsibility.
"They're simply out of practice when it comes to taking responsibility.
If they want to limit CEO pay, for example, they'll have to legislate it and take responsibility for its consequences. "
Obviously who has suggested otherwise?
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This is why there are complaints against the media. You suggest that McCains slip in swing States is due to his behaviour and intimate that the "Phone Callgate" is part of that cause. If you check the poll was taken Sept 21-23 and yesterday was the 24th. Also in two key swing States Ohio and Fla McCain has increased his lead.
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So does that mean there will be no debate tomorrow? Damn, I was looking forward to it. Guess we'll be back to playing charades again...
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Oldsouth says something about cooperation. But legally neither McCain nor Obama has any standing to deal with the situation except as senators.
I do not understand why McCain is so impulsive and compulsive to act. There is nothing he can do here from legal point of view.
The demos of congress already said they would back the deal if republicans do. One thing McCain can do is to convince his own people.
But this kind of panic may only weaken the already ailing economy. President has to keep calm and act rationally for the benefit of the nation, especially in light of crisis.
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McCain canceled his campaing,
BUT McCain is giving a campaign talk at the Clinton Global Initiative right now about the things he plans to do when he becomes president.
Hahaa...sounds to me like the campaign is still on for McCain.
hahaha
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You just don't get it Justin, do you...
Mccain is basically a centre-right independent forced by practical political realities to choose a party. The US Senate contains a large rump of ideologues of both red and blue, the "conservative republicans" and the more knee-jerk liberal democrats.
These fools are quite capable of leaving the US banking system to collapse in a chain reaction caused by toxic derivatives, as long as they get reselected to run for congress by their ideologically pure party organisations.
If John Mccain can force some of the conservatives in the senate to back the Poulsen plan, with sufficient safeguards against corporate greed to deliver democrats than that is indeed more important than the kindergarden distortion and counter-distortion of politics as normal run by the DNC and RNC fools.
If you can't see that Obama has a role to play in forcing the more solid democrats into action, you must be very foolish indeed.
You are actually focused on that pathetic TV debate, aren't you? The one where the majority in the TV audience will only notice the charisma and physical attractiveness of the candidates and ignore what they actually say, unless it's a cheap debating point created by twisting words and deception.
The whole point is that when John Mccain is willing to put his political career on the line to do what is in the national interest of America, I believe him.
This is a man who pressed an attack on an enemy power station in North Vietnam even after he heard the electronic warning tone in his pilot's earphones of an Enemy missile battery radar "locking on" That takes real guts.
The same guts shown by the US 8th Air force bomber pilots when they pressed their bombing runs against Nazi-Germany's synthetic fuel plants, practically killing the fuel supply to the Luftwaffe and winning the battle for air superiority over the skies over Europe.
Mccain stood up to the torturers of the Hanoi Hilton, refusing early release to defend the principle that the longest held prisoners should go home first. And yet led congress in forgiving Vietnam after the war ended by restoring trading links. Only Mandela has shown greater courage to forgive former enemies for the greater good.
As for Barak Obama, the only thing he cares about is Barak Obama. Can you not see how he drips with the bile of personal ambition? Only Mitt Romney was more creepy. The worse thing is he actually believes his own self promoting ruminant elimination.
As for multitasking, the most important thing about that is knowing which task is the most important to the country and treating that as the highest priority.
Which is more important? The US banking system staying alive and online, or some TV event.
Only a silly BBC media person could think the latter.
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Ref 111
I second your conclusion. McCain's record is characterized by impulsive and immature behavior, which has gotten him in trouble throughout his life. Picking Palin was a desperate attempt to save his candidacy by choosing a female with strong conservative credentials, but unfortunately for him, that is not enough to save a man whose moderate and bipartisan record is marred by his advocacy of discredited Republican fiscal and economic principles, and a tendency to shoot from the hip.
At this point in our history we need a steady hand and a man with vision and leadership qualities capable of reassuring the American people. McCain is not it.
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McCain looked ill on TV yesterday. Perhaps he is not fit enough to withstand a 2 hour debate.
There doesn't seem to be any rational explanation for wanting to postpone the debate. In fact, it's the perfect time to have one so the voters can see what their next leader is going to do.
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I can only go by what coverage we had on the news but it struck me how even though Obama was making all the moves, in a press conference McCain was trying to sound all statesman like and it was my idea-like, when saying he'd asked Senator Obama to accompany him. Not impressed John!
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The debate is suspended not cancelled. There will be plenty more, so why all the fuss ? McCain will return to the senate at a time of heightened economic fear and uncertainty to debate and shape a response to the looming financial crisis. Congress must act soon or risk adopting an already-doomed Bush plan. Is anyone surprised that Obama has chosen to stay on the campaign trail ? What was he going to do - show up and vote "present" ?
Those who view this as a political stunt have not followed McCain's career. This decision may have political dividends, but was probably not the motivation. Time will tell if the decision was correct. The Obama camp is obviously nervous about it, so do not brush the decision off. Justin's later statements reflect Obama's recognition that he has been put in a position to react, rather than taking the lead on this. McCain wins this one, not Obama.
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Obama hasn't won yet.
If he does, the American people will see the real Obama, just like they did with Clinton.
I f McCain wins, the same will be true, They will see the real person. Just like Reagan.
Who will be to blame?
Depends who you choose, and will be willing to live with.
All of the people blaming Bush........How would you of handled the situation he stepped into?
Count how many disasters has happened on his watch. He can't be all bad, admit it.
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seems to me that this mess started when the lenders got greedy to.
they had a person with a rate that was not fixed and then it went up,quite suddenly in some cases.
well the banks thought cool more dosh.
Health care companies were upping rates all the time. people near the bread line were not able to predict the greed of the health care industry and the banks that would lead them to raise rates as much as they did(and their profits because only gains are worth anything).
So the stock market and the rich carried on. they had shares in banks and healthcare. What did they care if a few plebs got foreclosed on?
All the time the economy was " great" because rich people with money to invest in land and building thought "why don't we start building loads of houses.
So the banks charged too much in interest.
why not regulate that. increases in interest rates drove many people out of home.
Health care costs $150/5mins drove those unlucky enough to get ill out of their homes.
Contractors got tax breaks for building their over ambitious cheap quality generic houses.
Now the market is flooded.
Drive them in using pressure and twist.
I 'll keep my $2300 thank you. there is a list above of people who can pay up ,go to jail or be tar and feathered.
7 Glad to see your on board now doug.
Now that's the sort of american spirit I would fight next to and in support of.
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123. Simon21:
"116. AndreainNY:
Obama was going to spend the 2 days prior to the debate studying. He's now got to cut his practice short and do some work. Tsk. Tsk."
You would prefer your politicians to make decisions without researching the issue?
*********************
No, Obama should take all the time he needs to understand what the problem is and what those with more experience believe he should do.
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Some good interviews on what's happening and what it could mean:
http://www.harpers.org/subjects/WashingtonBabylon
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#347 allmymarbles, Thank you for the honor to have had a glance of your Dad and childhood.
#37 GnR
Put me down for a billion, and I'll through in that marble KM Gate for the entry.
38. duhbuh
Indecisive Dave is funny, thanks, got me over the dulldrems and ready for another round.
53. fabfourtune wrote:
That is the fear in a nutshell.
81. MarkfromOxford:
Mark, I saw his broadcast last night and thought the same outloud. Wrong or right it is a concern.
109. chill0
Accepted,
That said your link to the German Chancellor went to George Sorros?
The learning curve is slow for me, I understand the opposite points, like Chillos and others. Sure, we want to underpin the banking where the speculators and wizards stole the value. That happened piece by piece with investment ups and downs. But the bank that packaged, leveraged and /or bought these vehicles as an investment, took the profit and interest when it was good, need to take the loss now.
Who exactly are we bailing out, the CEO who took a twenty million dollar severance package for piss poor performance? Ya'll telling me these gentlemen of learning didn't know they were stealing? I think they knew, and with purpose and fore thought caused this debacle.
Top that with what Purpledoggzz pointed out, this is facism. One goose step away.
Banking and Government play hardball with the little guy, we play by rules and follow laws. Trading labor for pitance, loving family and friends, paying our full share. But those with influence and aflunence are flaunting thier ability to just take from the peasent without regard.
Yes Goleoo, I see the light and have new disrespect for GW, beyond that which I've questioned before when the R's held congress with him.
troubled and shaken
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McCain/Palin are not competent good thing it is showing now so the public is warned.
McCain will debate via teleconference so that he doesn't have to appear next to Obama - the physical youth and height of Obama make McCain look extremely bad and old.
Before bailing out anyone they should take the servicing away from the private parasite firms that CANNOT and REFUSE to re-work defaulting loans and set up the "special servicers" already identified by statute to reduce interest, re-work payment plans, preserve some of the mortgage securities assets and let people keep their homes. Oh, sorry, this would actually take some effort, work and thought and the bank affiliated servicers would lose their slice of the pie......let's just hand the banks our cash instead.
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In a time of crisis, you should not underestimate the power of intelligence to solve a crisis. Bush has none and it it now evident that nearly all of his choices have been truly idiotic. McCain, who graduated near the bottom of his military class and who can’t remember how many homes he owns and who just a week ago thought our economy was inherently “strong”, is not much better. Obama is Harvard Law and his wife too is highly educated. He is not rattled by adversity, he multi-tasks naturally and above all - he sees the larger picture. Calling McCain on his record and his parties record on the economy in a time of crisis wouldn't be appropriate except that were choosing a new leader for the next 4 years in 40 days and alerting the public to the team of corporate lobbyists and former CEO’s that are hooked up with McCain/Bush/(Palin!!) same old greed machine as well as pointing out that the old man's obvious inability to handle more than one thing at a time may not be in the countries best interest is certainly smart.... If you’re a rascist, just say it and don’t give me this drivvle about McCain and his country first ****. YOu gave me that when you elected Bush and look where that’s gotten us..
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America already has a President. It doesn't need two wannabe hopefuls to descend on Washington for a chat. Surely the debate on Friday will give citizens an opportunity to find out how each candidate will handle the crisis; pretty crucial since one of them will be in the White House shortly.
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Funny for ages the right got on Obama for not agreeing to debate the great
Mc Criminalintent .
But then when he agreed to it and the world got some real worries(not the made up terrorising of america) He's all " Not Now"
"I've got to go do something important."
What a prat.
Obama called his bluff .
Mc Bluff's Not tuff
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
138. At 2:54pm on 25 Sep 2008, frayedcat wrote:
McCain/Palin are not competent good thing it is showing now so the public is warned.
McCain will debate via teleconference so that he doesn't have to appear next to Obama - the physical youth and height of Obama make McCain look extremely bad and old.
Before bailing out anyone they should take the servicing away from the private parasite firms that CANNOT and REFUSE to re-work defaulting loans and set up the "special servicers" already identified by statute to reduce interest, re-work payment plans, preserve some of the mortgage securities assets and let people keep their homes. Oh, sorry, this would actually take some effort, work and thought and the bank affiliated servicers would lose their slice of the pie......let's just hand the banks our cash instead.
-----------------------------------------
There we go start addressing the buggers that stole houses with their foreclosure notices. they stole so much they saturated the market so now we all suffer.
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"For McCain to go on television with his dramatic statement but not mention that Obama had called him earlier in the day was simply bizarre" - Justin Webb.
Justin Webb, sir - are you putting out this question to point out the obvious to us - at least those of us who can tell that McCain is "playing politics" by blindsiding Obama so as to "appear" more concerned about the economy since McCain isn't looking too good amongst voters when it comes to the economy? Hmmmm.
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137. DougTexan:
"38. duhbuh
Indecisive Dave is funny, thanks, got me over the dulldrems and ready for another round."
You might also enjoy the "Political Comedian" on SNL. He was on the 9/14 Weekend Update.
I mean...come on...it's so...you know...really!
Political Comedian
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It seemed to me that McCains dramatic statement was him trying to gain some momentum - maybe trying to look like he was taking the lead. He sorely needs it.
Sarah Palin's performance with Katie Couric on the subject of the economy (if you've seen it) certainly dosn't help him - she quibbered her way through it, and didn't really *say* anything... she sort of rambled a few platitudes over and over again. Raises questions perhaps about whether he would have been better off with a more fiscal Republican - Romney.
Those immortal words of Bill Clinton, which I'm sure I don't need to repeat, are ringing true.
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"Bush gets bashed and that's bogus." Yes, New Mexico, Lil. The fact that the country has gone from unprecedented prosperity and pre-eminence under Clinton to one of its worst conditions ever, both domestically and in foreign policy, is not Bush's fault at all. It was just bad luck. Never mind that he understood so little about military history that he landed us in not one, but two land wars in Asia, which can end in nothing but defeat, but only after a cost in lives and money we can't afford. Never mind that he built the deficits Clinton eradicated, which make any bailout something we can't afford. Never mind that he financed his popularity on bills our children and grandchildren will have to pay. It was all just bad luck. And never mind if 911 had happened to a Democratic President we'd never hear the end of how it was all the Democrats fault.
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44 insane liberals are smarter than smart republicans who use names like insane liberal.
You want us to vote for the same idiots to run it again ?
"Enough is enough! If they can send a pack of wolves to investigate and dig up ANYTHING and EVERYTHING about Palin, they should do the same for Obama. Especially his ties to Rev Wright and Ayers. To just brush it off as saying "guilt by association" is ridiculous. The media should do its job and really investigate Obama. Shame on you all!!"
Shame on US what about you.
This has been investigated by EVERYONE.
Every press office every tv station for 2 years .
If you think you've heard the last scandal from the gorilla from Wasilla your insane true , but not liberal (though I suspect even you know that)
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ref #144
there is a dispute on who apporached whom.
Is there a reason people are taking Obama's word?
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"Eight years of crying about Bush has left people incapable of rational thought."
Ninny .
it was 8 years of the bush terrorising people by fear mongering etc.
Your guy you get him to stop.
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ref #140
Since unlike Venezuela or Bolivia, the U.S President does not manipulate the laws to stay in power; either McCain or Obama will be President in 4 months so they should be involved in the discussions.
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From Nate Silver
As well as the best electoral data analysis. How can you go wrong?NO to bailouts!
xx
ed
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Never mind the whys and wherefors.....I think that the front seat the BBC has sat at in this campaign is like a Brit seeing a baseball game live for the first time. They get caught up in the exictement but don't exactly understand the rules. They get the general gist of the idea of the game but its subtleties elude them. McCain was rather clever I think. In times of trouble we expect people to drop what they are doing, take off their coat, grab a shovel, and pitch in and dig until the job gets done. This is where McCain put himself while Obama wanted to remain at the party as though nothing was going on and it was business as usual. It seems to me that his attitude was, if you need me give men a call. Well the President of the United States did and when that happens, you can't say no. Obama reminds us he is an elitist. One thing a President needs is a sense of priorities especially in an emergency. This is where Bush fell down on Katraina and lost both houses of Congress for it. We can have debates next week, there is still plenty of time for that. The economy is in trouble right now. How anyone can say McCain is scared of a debate after what he went through in a Communist prison for five years is beyond me.
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McCain's interest in delaying the debate are very suspect.
1) The debate tomorrow night is supposed to focus on foreign policy issues which would favor him over Obama.
2) Since no one in the US has a good idea about what McCain's policy ideas would be (other than falsely stating that Obama wants to raise Middle Class taxes, and wants to keep troops in Iraq for many more years), this is his chance to let us know what ideas McCain favors that would truly support his self-named superlative "Maverick".
3) THIS IS PERHAPS THE REAL ISSUE, I have read that if the debate tomorrow night is postponed, McCain would like to re-schedule the first debate on the same night as the Vice-Presidential debate. Does McCain realize that Sarah Palin is that inept?
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110 bring on LETS
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Regarding Reverend Wright, it's not just "the speech".
It's Black Liberation Theology. It's another Reverend Wright “white folks’ greed runs a world in need” speech. It's Reverend Wright's visit to Qaddafi.
A lot of Americans are simply uncomfortable with these things.
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153. MarcusAureliusII:
"Never mind the whys and wherefors.....I think that the front seat the BBC has sat at in this campaign is like a Brit seeing a baseball game live for the first time. "
Yes, and, maybe, he can't refrain from throwing a cup or two onto the field?
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153 marcus the erronious
What again ?
you are a half wit.
You think you understand america better than any other person.
Your a fool.
HOW CAN ANYONE SAY MCCAIN IS SCARED OF A DEBATE.
Because this is now 2008 september, and he looks like a donkeys butt .
He has no position, he can't just crud on about war war war, when everyone is suffering here.
puff your a fool just leave it at that.
By the way I like watching it crumble MA.
The mighty "democratic capitalist economy"
Sounds like a someone going on about the socialist peoples union, or something.
Capitalism FAILED. If you can't figure that out by now your definately republican.
America's version Of capitalism failed whats more.
America is now weak.
And you REALLY REALLY Need the rest of the world to help.
But that will not happen if america says "shove it world " and votes for MC Cain.
better run to the bank the fdic says there are several about to go under but in a show of honesty will not allow the depositors to know because they fear a run.
Hardly letting people take control of their own financing?
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156 Quaddafi not the one recently accepted by the west . Because he got a lotta oil.
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ninny if you were on the field more than cups would be thrown.
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70. At 10:01am on 25 Sep 2008, NeoPoliticus wrote:
Obama's reaction shows just what a fool he is. If this bill doesn't pass, there will be a global depression within six months.
NeoPoliticus, please note. There may possibly be a global recession within six months, if this happens we, the rest of the world, know who to blame. The sale of 'poisoned securities' world wide by reckless US bankers chasing after even more bonuses with inadequate regulation. I don't think that it will happen because the days when your economy was vital to the rest of the World are over. You are now merely important not vital.
With regard to the main part of this thread, surely Obama is right aren't US presidents intended to multi-task? I would have thought they should have changed the subject matter of the debate to economic policy and got on with it, I'm sure most American citizens want to know the candidate's positions and would like to judge their grasp of the problem.
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Smoffat,
Paulson is UNELECTED. Our ELECTED LEADERSHIP qnne to derelict it's duty and delegate the task to a BANKER.Caveat Emptor!
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153. At 3:28pm on 25 Sep 2008, MarcusAureliusII wrote:
At least I'm not disappointed, MarcusAureliusII you are there. Just when I was beginning to believe you had deserted us in our hour of need you have returned. Please give us the benefit of your wisdom vis a vis the decision by your lawmakers to give large amounts of financial aid to your car makers. Sounds suspiciously like SOCIALISM to me, but no, of course not, it's only decadent socialist neo-muslim Europeans who give state aid to industry.
Remember all the money you accused us of giving to Airbus? The only consolation us Europeans and of course the Japanese have from this is that it won't really affect our car industries anyway because Detroit never were serious competition outside of the US market.
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jacksforge, calling me names won't make you any less wrong. If and when the US economy goes into a tailspin as you seem to hope, the whole world will go down the drain with it. And guess what, the market for frog lawn ornaments hammered out of steel will dry up completely. Something tells me a lot of prospective customers will find that a product they can live without or at least defer to less lean times. OTOH, horses will always need shoes. Perhaps you could become a blacksmith as well as a furrier.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Magic,
Smarter, though.;-)
ed
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Is McCain, as Mrs Thatcher, would say "frit"?
After all previous physical courage can desert people when they know they're going to get their ass kicked in a debate on the economy.
Especially when their campaign manager's firm has been getting paid $15,000 a month by Freddie Mac and their running mate is going down a storm on YouTube demonstrating that not only does she believe in God but also witches and hunting them out.
McCain's running from a debate that he can only lose.
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I don't see how McCain can get out of this gracefully. Obama will show up, and whether the networks put on the show with Obama alone or not, Obama will have a field day with it.
McCain's posture on this seems to me like an act of desperation. I think to almost everyone, it will at least be seen as a merely political act, not one of statesmanship.
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#2
Hi, goleoo!
Have you heard of the saying, "Discretion is
the better part of valour?" It is preposterous to call one of the greatest
American heros, like John McCain, a coward!
Whatever his reasons for trying to help out with the financial wangling in Washington, it
is anything but cowardice.
Afraid of what? A debate with a loquacious
rival? That is not McCain. With his homespun
wit, with the load of experiences on his
'back' and the ring of sincerity in his voice, he could be a sell out anywhere and with anyone.
Even now I will not be surprised, if he turns
up for the debate if he could get away from
Washington, having quickly finished whatever he set out to do. He is that kind of
person.
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To the crew of ss. America- your political games amaze me.
Like many others, I am just an interested observer who has been following the ups and downs of this drawn out election process, to vet the candidates from both sides, before finally arriving at the front runners from each party.
Often disheartened by Justins' previous leads that appear to focus on the trivial aspects that have included lapel pins, "sweety" remarks, pant suits etc etc but have been greatly impressed by the depth of knowledge from many in showing Americas hangups when explaining your gun culture, religious fervour and remnant racial bias. The tangential discussions on the weekends caused by an absence of any
new posted topic have only seen fit to expand Dem and Repub arguments.
Recent additions to the blog by new people over the last two months have brought further aspects into the debate where [excluding the idiotic dross that will always post], they have intensified the search with their pros and cons looking for a solid foundation in finding a good leader.
In the last few days because of the financial crisis that will not only effect
America but the whole planet, where the world is waiting for a true leader to emerge, how far have we come?
During the last 2004 elections, it was swiftboating. Today 2008 it is showboating.
Bankers who through greed have produced the mess, are now holding all countries over
a barrel, with sham concerns for the average citizen but greater worries for their
own portfolios and friends in high places so as to maintain the status quo. They show all the finesse of playing shuffleboard or arranging the deckchairs on the Titanic.
A Democrat nominee who could be considered to be deep in thought, but is playing his cards so close to his chest that in keeping quiet one wonders if he is still in the game, with a mature understudy who is off the map regarding his participating input.
A Republican nominee who, running just on his military war record appears to have been forced to nominate a political " virgin" understudy to appease his parties evangelical backers yet hides her away, and now wants to hide / promote himself in the nep figure of an experienced economist.
Leadership advice from ex-presidents is at a low ebb because either the one does not wish to show family links to the incompetent / incumbent president, or petty vindictiveness from another who still has dreams of his wife going for 2012 while his country suffers and waits for some other poor s*d to have steadied the boat. And yet another ex-president sits and counts his nuts at home.
For the leader of the world you are ballsing it up in a far more serious way than you can imagine.
Forget Russia, Iran, Israel and middle east future diplomacy for the moment. Forget the gaffes, dubious liasons and prisoner of war heroisms or discretions if any or all have any factual basis.
For a country understandably obsessed with security after 9-11, you are placing the lives of yourselves, us, your and my soldiers policing foreign lands at a greater risk with your indicisiveness.
However right or wrong the decision was to send troops to the middle east to oust Saddam, your present attitudes must be undermining the mentality of all military personnel abroad who had been under the impression that their loved ones were secure, safe and sound at home. And vice-versa!
You are rehashing all that went wrong during the compulsory duties and eventual return of the Vietnam vets.
A few dollars less for you and me does not matter one jot if the life of one soldier or civilian can be saved from terrorist attrocities that will only be stimulated by your present headless chicken stance.
You are providing grist for the mill for any Taliban, Al Q, or extremists' twisted thoughts.
Whether you choose a mentally diminished Republican Hawk with a religious nutcase understudy [ God help us] or a Democrat waffeler with a gaffe prone geriatric { God help them}, the world will at least have some straw to clutch at and a glimmer of light after the darkness and disaster of the last 8 years.
Perhaps I am reading too much into the journalistic comments and newspaper stories that are solely to promote the sale of newspapers by stirring the pot, and the position of the journalists themselves,but many see this as probably your last chance as " thinking Americans" to regain a status that has become tarnished, and I hope that some of you will bury your petty grievances for the good of the whole.
Nailing a sneezing maverick?
"When you have an important point to make, don't try to be subtle or clever. Use a pile driver. Hit the point once. Then come back and hit it again. Then hit it a third time - a tremendous whack."
~ Winston Churchill
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DougTexan (#7), I am sympathetic to the thoughts you expressed, and although I am supporting the Democrats in this election, I recognize that the Republicans did not get us to this state of affairs without a lot of help from Democrats.
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OldSouth (#11), Obama like "FDR in late 1932/early 1933"? I sure hope so. The market crash which started in 1929 hit bottom in July, 1932, when FDR was nominated. The New Deal saved the American economic system, although it was WWII which finally ended the great depression. The troubles in our financial institutions today are the consequence of a quarter-century of disassembling of New Deal regulation, primarily by Republicans, but with help from Democrats who have been unable or unwilling to defend the New Deal in the face of the Republican ascendancy.
It's time for another deal.
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#153
Marcus,
Easy. McCain didn't have a choice about being in prison or not. He had to follow his orders. He has a choice about the debate. He ran away.
If it struts like a chicken and clucks like a chiken, it's probably gonna taste good battered and fried.
Colonel Sam
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Chill0,
In fact it us USUAL. There are plenty to blame:Obama is to blame a little,
McCain is to blame a little bit more.
Some of McCain's friends are deeply culpable
GWB and cronies are covered in guilt.
Soros ia arguing for intervention, but as Equity
rather than bailout. Not inconsistent at all.
Salaam, etc.
ed
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145. At 3:15pm on 25 Sep 2008, AndreainNY
Very good!
Thanks
two kids,.... headphones you see.... days
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Andrea,
I reckon he can multitask. We'll see.xx
ed
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"jacksforge, calling me names won't make you any less wrong"
"And guess what, the market for frog lawn ornaments hammered out of steel will dry up completely. "
"perhaps you could become a blacksmith as well as a furrier."
Marcus I am sure I am wrong many times a day but never as many as you.Mr erronious.
frogs are not all i make. So not to worry.
quite busy recently.(people want real security fences, the sort you get impaled on if you climb, the sort that are high.Go look at the rest of the world. see how many houses have security grills on them, and realise that blacksmiths and blacksmithing has been around a long long time and you are a lowly engineer who needs BIG money to make money.I don't.
And I am sure you are aware that Furriers are associated with the fur trade, but fArriers shoe horses.And the blacksmiths do not nessasarilly shoe horses but often do .
So bug off your still wrong most of the time.
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ref #146
In regards to Romney who is far more qualified than Obama, there is a prejudice against Mormans in this country.
And just as there will people who won't vote for Obama because he is black(some will only because he is as well) they are some who have problems with Mormans and at least 3 posters on this blogs with Jews.
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69 you are wrong as usual. I don't get it, even a broken clock is right twice a day but you seem do defy the odds. McCain had a get out of jail free card in Vietnam because of his father. He was offered release and refused it because among the soldiers themselves, it was the rule that the first one in would be the first to leave. He was offered release by the North Vietnamese and turned them down. So you got that wrong. I know you don' t like him but why do you have to make up stuff you know isn't true?
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Bill Clinton spoke on ABC earlier. It seemed a very bipartisan performance, seemingly putting the country above polictical point scoring. He was positive about Bush's speech last night (the way he explained what he liked actually reminded me of Biden's disputed point about leadership shown by FDR - not that I am at all equating Bush with FDR). Mind you this from the same TV channel that is spending a lot of time on a singer's non-shock announcement that he is gay.
Contrast Clinton with Harry Reid. It appears that one day he calls on McCain for leadership, and when McCain responds he tells him to go away.
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#89, Candace:
"A fireman who sets a fire then rushes to the scene to save us is hardly a hero."
They're doing that for 8 years now, the partisans (do I hear "pirates", there's to much background noise...) that are holding the (former) Republican Party hostage.
But cheer up, less houses mean higher prices, so there's a loose-win situation!!
# 37, GnR
Karl Marx Lager... why not give it a try? Smirnov and Cola were once friends, too ;-)
# 115,
Great, anti-dollars! But when they collide, doesn't that give a Big Bang...?
# 102, purpleDogzz
That's what I think as well. But maybe we miss something...? Is there a Republican in da house who can enlighten us? Please do! I'm all confuzed with all these alarm bells ringing.
Guess what, if the 1000 richest patriots gave $70m each, all these hearings would be superfluous.
# 105, though, is a bit too harsh...
# 110
"Americans should start their own local exchange trading schemes and stop
paying ALL taxes to a thieving unconstitutional government"
No more United States, then? I always loved the concept of clans, although they
battled fiercely for land and stock as well.
# 109, Chill0
"Now the Church of England is talking about this latest capitalism and morality.
It appears to various archbishops that capitalism has become disconnected from the reality of 'making things' by the complexity of these transactions. I don't see how."
I do, and I'm not even a religious guy. Even worse, I don't have anything against money!
But, for starters, Humanity should be the Ghost in the Machine.
# 153, MA II
Thanks for the blog. The left wing of this plane is getting too heavy, without JohnAAA.
# 164,
We don't need to call names, indeed. This is a British site, mind you ;-)
# 161, T1m0thy,
2nd that.
On another blog someone proposed to invite another presidential candidate in Missetc.
Great move? And if so, who would be the best choice to spar with Obama?
Let's take this small chance to get a third guy on board! Would be fun!
Or, even more joy: Let Karl Rove take the stage and let's talk about ads and morality!
McCain is a nice guy on the wrong spot, at the wrong time.
He really should have won in 2000 i.s.o Bush, he's getting history
more and more with every move he makes. Or let me say it differently:
the moves he's ordered to make.
Dutch
PS don't bully Bush too much. He still has ten fingers and one red button.
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Scribesolomon
Dear sir,
can you tell me why McCain is a hero?
Please do tell me.
Else come with me and I will introduce you to a lot of people who have done braver things than McCain and don't refer themselves as heroes.
the problem with people like you is that you use words like Love, Honesty, Freedom, God, Bless, Hero, Peace, as empty words to serve your agenda.
Show me the hero!
Define me a hero!
than try to lecture me on heroism.
There are hundreds of heroes in this country who are humble enough not to take advantage of this country by using their "military" times as an excuse to appeal to the masses.
What McCain did is a sign of cowardice. Nothing more nothing less, hero or no hero.
The point is, McCain does not understand how economy works. He last week completely shocked America with his comments when the economy was burning. Now you are convinced America is waiting for McCain to solve the economical crisis.
I am done talking to you. It is insulting to intellect to fall down at that level after dozens of proven lies towards McCain.
Maybe you are a veteran, but so where my grandparents who fought in WWII. They were humble enough to never lie to a single person, but went ahead and worked for humanitarian causes around the world.
I have had enough of people giving special treatment to McCain for being in prison.
I can't wait for McCain to show up at the debate. I really can't. BECAUSE IF HE DOESN"T, well ... HE IS FINISHED! COMPLETELY and HUMILIATED!
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MarcusAureliusII re my comment #163.
What has happened? Has 'the cat got your tongue'? No comment no reply, the world as we know it must be coming to an end. Or is it that you have no reply?
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No. 81 Mark
Mark,
Could this be one of the real reasons the McCain campaign cancelled Letterman and all current activities? Could this also be one of the real reasons McCain doesn't want to debate Friday night? He may need a rest and to address medical issues.
We can easily see that campaigning and the presidency are both mentally and physically gruelling. Toughness and stamina are required.
I did see him interviewed by Katie. He either winked at her at the end or experienced an involuntary tic. I don't know if it was the eye that's being referenced.
To all political and constitutional students/scholars: what would happen if McCain couldn't continue with the campaign? What do you think the Republicans would do? What do you think President Bush and Congress would do? What powers do they have in such a situation?
Thank you,
b
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"178. At 4:52pm on 25 Sep 2008, MagicKirin wrote:
ref #146
In regards to Romney who is far more qualified than Obama, there is a prejudice against Mormans in this country."
Didn't Romney make a crack about Obama being assassinated?
"And just as there will people who won't vote for Obama because he is black(some will only because he is as well) they are some who have problems with Mormans and at least 3 posters on this blogs with Jews."
And one poster who has very serious problems with the existence of Palestinians.
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#120. goleooo: "We are 40 days away from giving the chance to lead the greatest nation of the last 3 centuries to a coward and a religious radical."
While your patriotism is admirable, the sentiment is not - European and Asian nations are not to be dismissed so readily.
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response to MagicKirin # 178
That's certainly a factor, I realise Mormonism is a minority religion. But, events this week demonstrate that economic concerns tend to override these more cultural matters, especially in times like these. There's a balance between culture and policy - culture politics works well in good times, but not so much in bad times.
McCain made a cultural decision, and it was an oppertunistic choice. However, I think he lacked the foresight to make the wise decision - if he had kept his ear to the ground he would have seen this coming, and chose someone more reassuring.
I reckon McCain-Romney would be more successful than McCain-Palin. Just my "two-cents" of course, but there you have it.
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ref #185
And one poster who has very serious problems with the existence of Palestinians.
No I just think the Palestinians have to prove to Israel that they are interested in peace.
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In May 2007, it was reported that McCain had missed 42 consecutive votes (five straight weeks) in the Senate while he was conducting his presidential campaign. From March to May, McCain only attended three floor votes in the Senate. During the current Congress, Senator McCain has missed 62.6% of the votes. That is the highest percentage of missed votes in this Senate session, with Senator Tim Johnson, who had to undergo brain surgery, second missing 50.3%. Senator Obama is third with 43.7%. [3] Only two Congressional members have missed more votes this session, Rep. Charles Norwood (R-GA) and Rep. Jo Ann Davis (R-VA), who both passed away while in office.
And now he is going to suspend the campaign?????? Now voting in the Senate is important???? Hell Ted Kennedy came out of the hospital and voted, and McCain didn't show.
Hard not to take this as a "political manuver".
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Justin,
Its all smoke and mirrors is it not ?
Too many talking heads and little or no substance .
Meanwhile back at the ranch , Bush is so odd . He is seems suprised that no one in the world shares his little internal view of reality .
McCain is like a circus clown . If he is a man of the people, with how many houses and how much money? I'm the King of Chicago.
Palin is beyond any comprehension . Shes like a wide eyed game show contestant who won a trip to the U.N.
I have my vote ready .... I'm about done with this drivel
OBAMA 08
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188. At 7:59pm on 25 Sep 2008, MagicKirin wrote:
ref #185
And one poster who has very serious problems with the existence of Palestinians.
No I just think the Palestinians have to prove to Israel that they are interested in peace."
As I said a poster who has problems with the very existence of the Palestinians.
What do people like Obama have to prove....?
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#179
Marcus,
As usual an inch deep. Standing orders were (and are) that if captured and offered release ahead of other captured prisoners you will refuse. Failure to do so is insubordination and would result in, yes, jail.
So if McCain had taken his get out of jail card he would have been jailed in the US, no matter who his father was. Probably not tortured and definitely better conditions. But all the same once an order is given any military person worth their salt will follow it.
Wrong again big guy, nice to see you still on form.
Happy Sam
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188. At 7:59pm on 25 Sep 2008, MagicKirin wrote:
No I just think the Palestinians have to prove to Israel that they are interested in peace.
Why should they? Is wanting your country back a crime? The Israelis are the people who should be demonstrating a desire for peace. Which, of course, they have no desire for at all. Just a great desire to hang onto their ill gotten gains
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193. At 9:38pm on 25 Sep 2008, T1m0thy wrote:
188. At 7:59pm on 25 Sep 2008, MagicKirin wrote:
No I just think the Palestinians have to prove to Israel that they are interested in peace.
Why should they? Is wanting your country back a crime? The Israelis are the people who should be demonstrating a desire for peace. Which, of course, they have no desire for at all. Just a great desire to hang onto their ill gotten gains"
The very concept that any ethnic group has to "prove" something is profoundly .......
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To#184Ladybobbiebea
I am not a scholar but this question has worried me also. I hope someone will answer us.
Thanks for asking the question.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
You repubs really don't geddit do you!
justin is reporting the whole deal with a gentle and harmless neutrality.
the reason you don't geddit is because you can put lipstick on a pig but it is still a pig.
Your campaign is so mashed-up you're ma is offering to be a superhero and go to the justice hall america with his superfriends to fix it.
i wouldn't be surprised if McCain turns up in a cape next, brought to the debate by his hockey-mom.
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ref #191 and 193
No Israel has proven with their peace treaty with Egypt they keep their word.
The Palestinians keep electing terrorists
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184, Lady.
I don't know of any provisions to replace a presidential candidate. I don't see why there would have to be. Candidates are not part of the government.
The Republicans would have to find a replacement PDQ. How they would do this would depend on the rules of the Republican Party.
I too have wondered if McCain is having health concerns. Putting the campaign on hold would give him a rest if he were ill. But there is another possibility. If the campaign were on hold, then Palin, the Alaskan genius, would not have to debate with Biden.
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198, Magic.
"The Palestinians keep electing terrorists."
And Israel elected Menachem Begin, the terrorist head of the notorious Stern Gang. Another of your prime ministers was head of the Irgun, another terrorist gang. What's sauce for the goose and all that.
I note that you say the Palestinians elected terrorists. Note the word "elected." It was a free election but America decided it did not like the results.
I am not in favor of any terrorists - Palestinian or Israeli.
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178, Magic.
Whenever someone criticizes Israel, or a particular person who happens to be Jewish, you respond with the cry of "antisemitism." You are looking for a cheap advantage, Magic. You should have the dignity to discuss issues without sneaking behind an epithet.
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ref #200
Israel has done no harm to America and has been a good friend
The Palestinians celebrated 9/11.
Who is more worthy of our support.
To support the Palestinians over Israel is to support terrorism over people.
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202, Magic.
I am not suggesting we support anybody. What I am looking for from you is honesty - a vain hope.
You sidestep the question of your terrorist prime ministers. Instead you tell me why I should like Israel. That is an A-number-one non sequitur.
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#178
Mormons have a wretched history of racial prejudice. This could be the cause of any prejudice that they may now suffer. As you sow...........
And it would, of course, provide endless ammunition for the opponents of a Mormon candidate.
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No. 195 Ms. Aqua
No. 199 Ms. Marbles
Thank you both!
b
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No. 192 Sam
Hey, Sam, I'll take the hit, too.
I thought it would be logical for him to leave if given the opportunity. I didn't realize the protocol was actually military law with consequences. Thanks for the clarification.
Nights around the dinner table and well into morning, battles were fought and airplanes and helicopters were flown and landed.
Military history books, both ancient and modern, burst from our shelves. I was the only little girl I knew who had read the entire Hornblower Series plus Two Years Before the Mast and much written about the War Between the States and Patton before I went to high school. Actually, four high schools. We moved on average once a year, sometimes more.
But nothing, nothing was ever mentioned by my father or the officers who visited every night concerning prison of war camps. It just wasn't done.
b
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Ref #203
How far back in history do we have to go? Your argument is similar to those argue for slave reperations in this country. By the way I can argue that Nelso Mandela was a terrorist too.
But a major difference is the the supposed Israeli terror groups never targeted British civilians indiscriminatly in Britain.
The Palestinians send bomber and homicide attackers and wouldn't care if they killed a follow Palestinian.
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207. At 09:57am on 26 Sep 2008, MagicKirin wrote:
"But a major difference is the the supposed Israeli terror groups never targeted British civilians indiscriminately in Britain."
No very true, but Israeli government forces certainly killed innocent civilians in Europe post the Munich atrocity including one well documented case in Oslo where they killed a man.
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