American seriousness
I am taken to task by gunsandreligion and others for failing to grasp the severity of the situation but I suppose that is my point: that in a grave situation the job of the leader is to be grave but not act jumpy!
This echoes my view, though for the sake of balance here is the opposing case made with some gusto.
How he can oppose the deal but approve of McCain's effort to get it passed is beyond me, though.
So is America finished?
President Bush last night reminded me of the Japanese Emperor after the atom bombs and Japan's surrender with that famous understatement: "The war situation has developed not necessarily to Japan's advantage."
His presidency ends now in calamity - only the death of Osama Bin Laden before January can rescue it.
As for his nation, I take away two things from the last week.
First, that the notion of exceptionalism is up for grabs and can be re-tooled in a way that many Americans might actually find more comfortable and less demanding (it's the example, stupid!).
But secondly, that American seriousness of purpose (in spite of Mr McCain) is well reflected in a Congress that takes time to think about issues before passing them on the nod, even grave issues.
In the British parliamentary system, we sometimes take the quick action route and always regret it.
Hello, I'm 
© MMIX~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~16~RS~)
Comments
Sign in or register to comment.
Mc Cain wants obama there so he can steal his ideas as usual.
with out obama Mcc cain can only come up with his own rubbish.
Avoiding the debate is a smart move if he wants to avoid being president.
Complain about this comment
Justin,
America is not finished.
America is not anywhere being finished.
what is finished, is the old mentality of neo-cons and McCain.
But America cannot afford to rest its hopes in the hands of old rich white cowboys who no brains.
The republicans as many in this forum, continue to use fear to force people to support them. Fear is never never never the way to dialogue with people. That's what the republicans don't understand.
The economy is in crisis, but if the republican administration stops lying to people and starts asking for real objective rules and legislation that makes sense for everyone than all will be fine.
But so far the republicans only want:
"TRUST US! WE KNOW WHAT WE ARE DOING!
OR
i AM GOING TO REFORM "ALL" OF WASHINGTON"!
That's talk for fools!
however,
America will prevail again.
Complain about this comment
"His presidency ends now in calamity - only the death of Osama Bin Laden before January can rescue it."
Please do not pour fuel on this fire. All we need now is some hasty, stupid, desperate, ill-advised attempt to kill bin Laden that backfires and ends up killing a hundred civilians. Haven't we got enough problems without that.
Complain about this comment
Priceless Palinignorance
Watch
40 days before election and republicans continue to manipulate and avoid answering questioons.
I really pity the people who support this woman.
I have many doubts now as to the sort of people the majority of ALaskans are to have elected such a person as their governor.
A real disgrace!
Complain about this comment
As to the seriousness of the situation:
yes, but the question is how best to handle it?
Years ago, one used to speak of computers and "graceful degradation". THAT is all that a bailout of investment banks can accomplish. Essentially, how fast the situation degenerates.
After the degeneration, the rebuilding must take place. Essentially, the 700 billion can be better used in that phase.
Exceptionalism? Are Americans also a "Chosen People"? Why, pray tell?
Perhaps we will see what happens when reality clashes with ideology.
It would be nice to address ideology, but we have been conditioned to deal in personalities and sound-bytes.
Complain about this comment
The fact that the sole supporter of McCain's current action seems to be Newt Gingrich really tells it all. It is interesting that he has been muttering along these lines for some days now - just as that other rather notorious figure on the right, Bill Kristol, was the original cheer leader for the Sarah Palin selection.
And a comment about Sarah Palin and her use of the word "exceptionalism". A study of the few words she has uttered, unscripted, in public show that she uses strange phraseology - selecting a political buzz word like "exceptionalism" "pragmatism" or "resourcefulness" and injecting it a couple of times into the same sentence. Almost as though someone has been drumming these words into her head as useful ones to use if you want to show a mastery of political terminology - and to mask the lack of substance in your responses.
Finally, I think we saw in Bush's address last night the final proof that in his eight years he has led a fine nation into tatters.
The whole thing is a tragedy - and the polls are on enough of a knife edge for there to be a possibility of the tragedy being continued.
Complain about this comment
Justin got it right. Condemning the "socialist" solution sent to Congress by the Bush Administration, while praising the efforts being made by Sen. McCain to pass that legislation is incoherent and duplicitous.
People need to understand that sacrificing the future of our country because of ideological considerations and the need to score a few points is not an option. For better or worse, we are in this mess together, and we have nobody to blame but ourselves. Nobody forced us to elect and re-elect incompetent leaders.
Complain about this comment
Not so much exceptionalism as desperation and - as we all know - desperate times call for desperate measures. One thing I - as an outsider - have found reassuring is that Bush has more or less given up any pretense of being in charge. He is not an economist, he is out of his depth, he knows it and has reacted accordingly.
McCain seems hell bent on doing the opposite. That the financial crisis has overshadowed the election in recent weeks is far from surprising but there are still other big issues on the agenda.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it - but if it is broke call an engineer.
Complain about this comment
All of you lefties please just keep talking amongst yourselves.
Us unconverted GWB fans can get on with the important stuff like ridding the world of terrorism...the start of that great crusade will be George Bush's greatest legacy to the free world.
Complain about this comment
Xie,
We are the people WE HAVE CHOSEN TO BE!
I hope that answers your question.
We make our own history, and over the ages America as many people around the world have fought for the freedom to decide for themselves, a freedom that sadly we ignore when it comes to others when it goes against the interests of certain powerful people who are as much of a threat to our democracy that the very same people we defend it from.
Unfortunately we are not perfect either, but hopefully we will rise to the challenge and come out of our intellectual cave into light, and instead of waiting for others to make decisions for us, make our own decisions and expect those in power to act upon them.
Complain about this comment
more on Palin's latest readiness to lead.
tell me when you people had enough.
Watch
Latest interview with Katie on CBS!
i've had enough of her. She should quit.
Complain about this comment
# 2 Goleooo's comment leads me to amend my post above at 6. There does seem to be another cheerleader for McCain and that is none other than Bill Clinton.
I thought that Chris Rock had sorted him out the other night, but he's still popping up on the airwaves talking up his good friend John McCain and sideswiping Obama.
I wrote earlier today about the importance of loyalty to one's own political party if one wanted to reap the benefits of loyalty in a time of need. Clinton is different. His party stuck by him through thick and thin but now that he has a serious opportunity to repay that loyalty he cannot find it within himself to give it. He should remember that his greatest enemy as President was none other than Newt Gingrich.
Democrats may have given him the benefit of the doubt during his sexual shenanigans but they are going to have a very different taste in their mouth if he keeps this behaviour up.
Complain about this comment
John McCain is going to Washington to end all our economic woes, we are saved! /sarcasm
People talk about the pseudo-Messianic cult that has grown up around Obama, but John McCain has been drinking his own Kool-aid. He can't even add up the number of houses he owns and now he wants to fix Wall Street. He should stick to his strengths and stick with campaigning.
Complain about this comment
What's with you and Clinton.
The man is doing precisely what he needs to do.
did you watch the clinton glabal initiative. You should have watched Clinton praise Obama in the face of McCain who was present in the room, while Obama spoke via satellite.
You forget, Clinton is a stateperson, not a common ignorant who cheers at insults.
Clinton is giving tremendous help to Obama, and he admitted that Obama had asked him on advice of what is expected of the US president, and they had talked long on issues that America faces instead of ways to win elections.
some of you jump to conclusion to quickly, and than you whine about McCain when you do exactly what McCain does.
Think before you talk.
Clinton today called McCain's bluff, and in front of the world and McCain endorsed and openly admitted that Obama is the better of the two men to lead America under such circumstances.
SO enough of attacking CLinton.
He cares about America, not about Politics at this stage.
It is not going to effect his life in any ways who becomes president, but it will effect yours.
Complain about this comment
Even the death of Osama won't rescue this presidency in the eyes of the world.
If it happens now we'd all know it was more luck than planning.
Complain about this comment
OBL is most likely KIA.
Please don't be too quick to provide us with an "imperial view" of things. Until today, I hadn't the privilege of reading your scintillating grasp of world affairs.
Perhaps we all missed your keen ability in predicting the end of the "troubles" in N. Ireland, which may have been even slightly predicated on your inability to do the math - Catholic birth rates would eventually out-pace those of the Protestants.
The 85B bailout ought to simply be re-distributed to adult Americans, who could pay their debts and would subsequently be taxed as well. S/F
Complain about this comment
The internet is apparently awash with rumours (I don't know where to find them being the Ludite that I am) that Sen. J. Biden may soon be replaced with Sen. H. Clinton. Is this such a bad idea? In hindsight was she that bad for the ticket? What has Biden brought? As far as I can see a load of gaffs and a totally insignificant presence to the campaign! Why not switch - she could swing it for Obama and let's face it she is a credible poletician with outstanding experience. I have to admit I could not fathom the idea two months ago but somehow now it starts to make sense. Joe - get out of the game, claim some kind of sickness or a need to spend more time with the family and let's be done with you - frankly you have added nothing to the ticket. Time to bring back the Clintons!
Complain about this comment
Democrat-loving lefties in Europe always assume that all Republicans are one or more of (1) stupid (2) crooked. They are the fools.
GWB won 2 elections (it's who ends up in the White House that counts) after an election process which exposes candidates to the electorate for more than our system does (only Labour MPs got to vote for our PM!).
I was delighted when GWB won, if only because of the reaction of BBC journalists. He won't go down as one of the greatest presidents, but he is far better - and more successful - than Justin Webb and the rest are prepared to accept. To recognise even a smidgin of success would run counter to their preconceptions.
Complain about this comment
As an American citizen who's frequently abroad I can say in all seriousness that the US ought to abandon any claim to exceptionalism. The only sane course at this point -- the only possible way for us to get our own house in order -- is to practice a vigorous, no-exceptions-for-anybody -- non-interventionism in international affairs. The vast sums that are being consumed by American intervention in the affairs of Europe, the Middle East, and Asia must be repatriated and put to work in the US. We need them to put our financial house in order and to invest in our physical infrastructure and human resources. If, in so doing, we're an example for others, well fine -- but that should be nothing more than a pleasant side effect. By the way, I do not mean by vigorous non-interventionism that the US should trade less with the world or neglect to give our fair share to international humanitarian efforts. In fact, we should redouble our efforts in both of those areas. But give "blank cheque" security guarantees to NATO countries, Israel, Japan and Taiwan (societies as wealth as we are, if not wealthier)? No way! Those days are over.
Complain about this comment
Justin,
With much respect the death of Bin Laden 6 years too late can't save GWB's legacy. Unless they find him in Bagdhad.
Serious Sam
Complain about this comment
re. 8. threnodio:
"..desperate times call for desperate measures."
Yeah, that pretty well covers it. I think everyone recognizes that getting past the immediate crisis is not really going to fix the problem. It took us a long time to dig this hole and it's going to take a long time to fill it in. And the ones who benefited from the situation may not be the ones who get stuck paying the bill. And that's what's giving everyone a sick feeling.
A lot of Americans have been far too willing for far too long to live with huge amounts of debt. That includes both consumers and financial institutions. There's an underlying assumption that no matter how risky your behavior is, everything will be okay.
That attitude carries over into our foreign policy. In a way, the invasion of Iraq was handled like a sub-prime mortgage. Don't send in enough troops because the Iraqis will greet us with flowers (i.e. don't make a big down payment). Don't look at the final cost in dollar terms because the Iraqi oil revenues will pay for everything (count on your income going up enough to handle the balloon payments). Don't plan for when things go wrong because nothing will (buy the most lavish house that you can get a loan for). Try to get other people to pay for it (securitize the mortgage risk). And here we are.
I know this makes me old-fashioned, but I was raised to save in advance of spending, to plan for the future, and to use debt only when necessary for major purchases, like a house or car. Live modestly. Think long-term. Unless we get in a really awful meltdown like the Great Depression, I'll be okay. A lot of my countrymen and -women would be better off today if they had learned those lessons a couple of decades ago. I'm afraid we'll continue to have messes both domestically and internationally until as a nation we we accept this. And I will be voting for the candidate who seems to me to understand this.
Complain about this comment
"His presidency ends now in calamity - only the death of Osama Bin Laden before January can rescue it. "
Please, please don't give them any ideas. We've already had our "September surprise". I don't want to think what could happen in October.
"But secondly, that American seriousness of purpose (in spite of Mr McCain) is well reflected in a Congress that takes time to think about issues before passing them on the nod, even grave issues.
In the British parliamentary system, we sometimes take the quick action route and always regret it. "
Three words: War In Iraq.
The justification for that quagmire was rushed through Congress so that no one would question why we were going there instead of using our resources in Afghanistan. Congress makes quick decisions too, to the detriment of our citizens.
Stop blaming Clinton for "blindsiding" or "side-swiping" Obama. It's counterproductive. The results of this election will not be his or Hillary's faults.
Complain about this comment
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
I think we found out the real reason why McCain wanted to postpone his debate - so he can also postpone Palin's debate. Apparently her crash course in how the run a government without personal vendettas, foreign policy, economics, the Bush doctrine, how to formulate a government budget that does not have oil royalties as the sole source of revenue and all of the other real world issues not seen in Disneyland North has not gone well while she has been tying up traffic in New York.
Complain about this comment
re. 13. mars_central:
Well, Cindy McCain is the one in the family with the money and the business experience. Maybe John should send Cindy to the debate while he goes to Washington.
Complain about this comment
I believe Athens of old would have made time for debate. It seems like the right thing to do in a "democracy" or a republic. It might actually turn out to be closer to a serious debate for once instead of the traditional hour long scripted commercial.
Complain about this comment
The death of Bin Laden wouldn't rescue Bush's presidency. Irrespective of whether Bin Laden lives or dies in the next few weeks, Bush's Presidency will go down in history as the worst in living memory.
Complain about this comment
To comments like #9 and #18...
I sincerely hope you are being facetious. Any president would have made a call to action in response to September 11th, frozen terrorist finance networks, and shut down terrorist training camps.
However, the presidency of GWB has been nothing short of utter mismanagement - the political capital of 9/11 was completely squandered in Iraq. Sure, Saddam Hussein was a bad guy. So is al-Bashir in Sudan, so is Kim Jong-il, and plenty of others. The fact of the matter remains that Iraq was not supporting al-Qaeda and was not about to provide that organization with WMDs, even if it had them.
In invading Iraq, this administration only succeeded in destabilizing the region and creating a propaganda opportunity for al-Qaeda and other militant Islamist organizations. Moreover, it has depleted the appetite of Americans for war and visibly stretched the capabilities of our military. As a matter of fact, I blame the Russian invasion of Georgia on the US invasion of Iraq. Because of the Iraq war, the US no longer has a significant and credible security regime that can be reliably expected to respond to an attack on an ally.
This is not to mention that the past eight years have included hurricane Katrina, the rollback of privacy rights, politicizing national security, a widening wealth gap and an economy-crashing catastrophe. Given all that why does Bush deserve to be remembered fondly? For responding to 9/11 with a call to action against Islamic extremism? That's not unique leadership (though I'll admit he was good at reassuring the country just after the attack) - that was this administration's first and last act of rationality.
Complain about this comment
Oh dear. Its tough continuing to play the heroic leader when you cut and run from a mere debate.
GWB at least showed up, even if he had to be wired to a brain other than his own.
More fundamentally, this "Fiscal Crisis of Mass Destruction" exposes the near-zero difference in the 'choice' between the Republican and Democratic wings of might be more accurately called the Corporate Power party.
Most amazing are voters' reactions: swiftly escalating from disbelief through opposition to rage. What was billed as a financial crisis, perhaps to take just one more big dip into the national cookie jar before the end of GWB's term, has transformed itself it something else again, a kind of political bank robbery gone bad.
Complain about this comment
OverseasPlayer (#9), it was actually during the Clinton administration in 1998 that the US first attacked Al Quaeda camps in Afghanistan. The difference in the Bush administration was that the events of 9/11 justified a much larger effort.
Americans of both parties, whether liberal or conservative, support attacks on our enemies.
Complain about this comment
America - and capitalism - are not finished, but we are having serious fiscal, economic, and financial problems that require the full commitment of the American people, industry, and government to solve.
Hopefully, political posturing and partisanship will not interferre with the serious negotiations that have been ongoing since the rescue package was submitted to Congress and the bill passes before the entire system collapses.
People should bear in mind that the FDIC does not have enough funds to cover deposits if the entire banking system collapses. In addition to credit problems, our bank deposits, pensions, and investments could be in serious trouble if the crises is not solved expeditiously.
The scope of the package must be expanded to include consumers as well as failed corporations, functioning corporations must be helped to stop further job losses, government oversight is essential, and we should not bailout foreign banks.
Complain about this comment
Cambodiacalling (#17), don't believe everythin you read on the web (internet).
Complain about this comment
The timing of a Bin Laden kill would be very significant I think- just before the election and it will play to McCain and Bush's hands as it might be seen as a vindication of their (perceived tougher) policies/stances on terrorism.
But if it comes too early, and then the economy dominates the news again, national security may fade as an issue in comparison to the economy where Obama seems to be doing better than McCain.
As for the cheap shot at the British Parliament, it may well be true that the governing party has too much control over legislation. However it was the British Parliament which rejected the knee-jerk move to increase detention without trial, and it was the American Senate which passed the 'Patriot Act'.
The format of the institution is important, but not nearly as important as the people within that institution.
Complain about this comment
#23 - MagicKirin
If it appeared then went again, it generally means someone else has clicked the 'refer to moderators' link. When that happens, a human takes over from a computer. Sometimes they are restored.
Complain about this comment
Both parties are equally responsible for the financial mess (though mostly it was generated by the private sector). For example, Senator Dodd, as chairman of the Senate Finance Committee, has been the recipient of more political donations from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac than anyone else in Congress. To date he has not lifted a finger to reform their regulation or their hybrid public/private status. And he had plenty of company on both sides of the aisle.
I do fault the Gingrich-era Republicans for introducing an angry, confrontational, my-way-or-the-highway element into national politics, which to me is linked to a certain closed-mindedness, a tendency to think that all problems can be solved by getting tough. Angry, closed minds make poor decisions, and man, lots of poor decisions have been made.
Complain about this comment
For all you ignorant masses that uses the perpetual argument that it is the "Bush Administration's" fault for allowing or creating this economic "crisis", we will deserve whatever happens in Washington today because we have abandoned virtues and principals and permitted individuals to line their pockets through their greediness, their
disregard for what is right, their desire to reward individuals who could have put a stop to this mess by buying their souls and have them look the other way.
There were republicans, democrats, liberals,
conservatives, independants that are all to blame because they have let America down, they have let us all down, so get off the "Bush Whacking". This economic mess has its roots and history and it did not start 8 years ago.
Look at the benefactors of the Freddie Mac/Fannie Mae mess. If you disregard the facts here, we truly will deserve the "Change" that is being promoted by Obama, for Obama's vision of what America should be and not what America must be.
Complain about this comment
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
That Roger Cowen piece was priceless!! Personally, I never understood this "American exceptionalism" notion either! Even the one Obama claims from the constitution! The constitution is just a big law book telling us what red lines not to cross when running this country. All these "values and ideals" are held and shared by every other western nation in the world!! To make us "exceptional", we would need to be the only nation that holds such beliefs. And I, for one, am glad we aren't!! Republicans and other Americans need to realise that we will soon no longer be the most powerful nation on earth anymore and that China will take our place. And in that respect, if that is how one defines "finished" where a nation no longer wields the power it once wielded, but most importantly, a nation who's leader has from the outside seemingly personally saw to it that it has severed all ties (aside from trade) with every other nation on earth because it feels it is just too good for the rest of the world, then yes, America is finished. Personally though, I don't think we are, I merely think that we need to re-think our position in the world and act accordingly. Instead of all the Republicans flipping out over China's rise, perhaps they can find some good in it? China will be expected to donate the most in humanitarian aid, to do the most on climate change, and lead the way in solving international crises (that is if they shift away from their {another nation's problem, no matter how grave, is not to be interfeered in by the United Nations or any other nation} policy.) So the blame wil shift from us, to them. That can't all be bad right? In fact it can only be good!
Finally I think we need to back off this whole democracy spreading agenda. China is the next super power. It is comunist, and seems to be advancing the comunist/capitalist agenda abroad. Therefore if we wish for piece in the world we dare not upset the Chinese with lectures on democracy and human rights. We need to accept the world as is. The west should just keep their democracies strong, and work in more suttle ways to improve human rights abroad. The risks are too big otherwise.
America should just live and let live, both domestically and abroad.
Complain about this comment
I agree with Justin 100%
I happen to be a Brit who has lived in the USA for the past 16 years. I became a citizen last year and this is my first election that I can actually participate in. I have to say how sad and sorry John McCain is making himself look with yet another hail Mary pass attempt to get the sliding poll number to move his way.
First was the patently ridiculous selection of Shara Palin and the equally ridiculous defence of this pick by the GOP. She can see Russia from Alaska, and that makes her qualified for foreign policy? Then having her meet a line of world leaders in NY to bolster her resume? Please, this is so degrading and insulting to the America electorate.
Now we have McCain running back to Washington, where he is going to do God knows what to help our lame duck deer in the headlight president fix a problem his party started in the first place.
I watched President Bush last night and was reminded of the exact same type of rhetoric that escaped his lips regarding the Axis of Evil, Iraq, WMD and mushroom clouds... The bail out is going to cost every adult in the USA around $2300 dollars...but who gets bailed out? Bush failed at running a baseball team, so no surprise he could not run a nation. What a terrible legacy he will leave this nation.
Last straw is the notion of delaying the debate. Obama is exactly right - Presidents have to be able to deal with more than one serious issue at a time and not put on hold other issue while they focus on the latest crisis. Sorry Vlad, can't deal with Georgia right now, so could you boys please hold off from any further aggression? I've got another issue to deal with! The notion of a serial issue President is scary.
The debate has to go on. To not do so would be a betrayal of the American voters and a sad and sorry indicator of what to expect from John McCain if , heaven help us, he gets elected in November.
Complain about this comment
surely mccain's sudden forgetfulness regarding the bipartisan announcement prior to his patriotic dereliction of his campaign and the debate belie the political motive behind his actions. it seems to me that perhaps mccain is worried that his strongest suit, namely foreign affairs, will be compromised during the debate with the shadow of economic chaos looming over it.
regardless, it is nice that some real issues may play a role in this election, namely the inability of a republican administration to stimulate any kind of economic momentum since reagan. the heady days since clinton pulled america out of the early nineties mire is a distant memory now.
the surge in the polls that palin brought to the republican ticket by energising the grassroots right has been eroded twice over now, and the pseudo-issues of russian aggression is virtually obsolete. i bet mccain wishes he'd put romney on the ticket and tried to win over a bit more of the moderate democrats using romney's economic credentials...
Complain about this comment
THE ONLY REASON WHY MCCAIN WANTS TO BE IN WASHINGTON IS THAT HE HOPES THAT BY SHOWING UP AT THIS TIME WHEN A DEAL IS ABOUT TO BE MADE, HE CAN CLAIM THE LAST MINUTE CREDIT THAT WOULD FOOL AMERICA TO BELIEVE THAT THE MAN WHO LAST WEEK THOUGHT THE ECONOMY WAS STRONG WAS THE HERO OF THE MOMENT.
THAT IN FOOTBALL IS CALLED A "hail Mary"!
If McCain wants to put country first he would debate and stay far away from Washington not to distract the experts on economy from finding a solution.
McCain doesn't know anything about the economy, nor how it works.
Complain about this comment
McCain cancels campaing on the reasons that he will be in the senate to deal with the crisis, but McCain will miss the subtance meeting of the crisis which is the core of the whole deal.
WOW!!!! way to go McCain.
is that how he got his hero status? Drop in at the last second to steal the thunder for someone more deserving?
Read
Complain about this comment
Political and historical scholars, please corrent me if I'm wrong.
Concerning the "opposing view" Justin links to, it is my understanding:
Eisenhower also graduated at the bottom of his West Point class.
The Korean War saw more casualties than the Viet Nam War and it continues to flare. There was no "victory" there either.
Eisenhower was elected President because of his "hero" status and served during post-war prosperity.
Roosevelt's New Deal Programs went long toward putting people back to work and creating our still used public works infrastructure, but it was WWII that really fixed the economy.
We won't be solving our economic crisis this time by going to war because we are already warring on two fronts. Our military is over-taxed as well as our Federal budget.
b
Complain about this comment
The Slate story Justin likes so much contains a fascinating link to a event in 2006. McCain thougt he was working with Obama on a bipartisan approach to lobby reform, and Obama decided to play politics with it. McCain's letter to Obama reveals his anger, but also his strong desire to clean up the system and his disappointment that Obama was more interested in scoring points.
Of course, others may see things differently, and accuse McCain of weasel words (he does use term 'Lieberman').
Complain about this comment
4. goleooo
Did you watch it all, shes not "Fab" but she did okay with what she was asked. Her thinking ability and presence (awareness) of impact shows improbable(eh) "Prez" material, but not to be insulted. She didn't pull the foobars that Biden does regularly.
#14 perception correction:
"Clinton today called McCain's bluff, and in front of the world and McCain (, Bill Clinton)endorsed and openly admitted that Obama is the better of the two men to lead America under such circumstances." As I and everyone else would expect. His assistance Obama needs.
17. At 4:47pm on 25 Sep 2008, Cambodiacalling wrote:
The internet is apparently awash with rumours (I don't know where to find them being the Ludite that I am) that Sen. J. Biden may soon be replaced with Sen. H. Clinton. Is this such a bad idea?
YIKES!!
Complain about this comment
Threnodio,
But Paulson, who was a participant in engineering the problem?Complain about this comment
America is going to have to re-think its financial system. That's the first bit of good news.
Bush will soon be gone; that's the second.
The odds against McCain winning seem to be lengthening. That makes three.
So the outlook may not be all that bad after all.....
Complain about this comment
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
The situation is very complex. its not a matter of just injecting money into the financial system , as this is not the root of the problem this is a temporary way to cover up what has happened in the fianancial market. No one knows if this is going to solve anything , what happens when the next crater opens , is the US Gov. going to be able to bail it out , isn't there a limit to what the US Gov. can invest !!
Are the most affected party the American public going to benefit from the iresponsable wall street tycoons. this is just another way for bush to put off and delay what is in my opinion inevitable sooner or later , but Bush is leaving the problem to explode in someone elses hands , whether it be Obama or Macain. This has to be very carefully analyzed , as there can be worse repercutions in the future.its not fair to just cover up the hole , for it to open again much larger and there will not be a way to come to the bail out. The fianancial kings that created this problem have to pay for what they have done. They can not get away un harmed.
Complain about this comment
as an outsider ,I think Bush adminstration has really put America and American as a luaghing stock.McCain cant do better than his master.
The future of America lies in the hand of American.Its time to think twice
Complain about this comment
does anyone remember when dick cheney said, deficits dont matter?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A26402-2004Jun8?language=printer
we havnt heard much from him about this crisis? can you tell me why justin?
Complain about this comment
I'm not given to pursue conspiracy theories, but I wonder if this crisis hasn't been stage-managed to some extent to interfere with the campaigns and debates. Certainly the Republican heavyweights Bernanke and Paulsen are trying to get what they want with a last-ditch effort before the Republicans get thrown out.
We don't need a bipartisan compromise, in my opinion. What we need is for the Republicans to get out of town as soon as possible. Go back to the ranch.
Complain about this comment
LadyBobbieBea (#43), I don't think putting down Eisenhower flies. He was elected not just as a "hero," which he really wasn't, but because he was a successful leader of a complex business (the Allied armies in Europe). His reputation has gone up in recent decades. I think he will be remembered by historians as one of the best twentieth-century presidents, and the last great Republican president.
Complain about this comment
It was Shrub's wars that kept all this bubble-burst from happening earlier. It bailed us out of the dotcom bottom....Nothing feeds an Economy like loads of ordrs for weaponry paid for with government borrowing.
Salaam/Shalom/Shanthi/Pax/Peace
Complain about this comment
doug,
i saw it wall,
and i cannot agree with you.
WHile for you an OK performance is acceptable when it comes to the person who will be in charge of nuclear weapons, for me it is a NEVER!
But considering your poor judgement and poor standards you have for your leaders, while you might deserve worse than Bush and loose everything you have, I don't, and am not willing to anytime while I can still breath.
I have high expectations and Palin will never ever ever meet my expectations.
Neither can McCain for that matter.
He can fool a great number of people who call themselves Americans, but I am not one American that can be fooled.
YOu must be a very naive man. I wouldn't even trust anyone with your views to discuss negotiations with Islamic leaders like Ahmedinajad or others, who are extremely clever.
If you think Palin's folksy "I will get back to YA" will do, you are insane.
Complain about this comment
After eight years of this administration indulging smash-and-grab market tactics, "suddenly" America's on the precipice of "another Great Depression" that only those of us who could never afford to wager on the stock market, period, are expected to pull America back from?
Are you bloody kidding me?
After eight-plus years of America's wealthiest speculators steadily, greedily taking us toward the brink, suddenly McCain, who by his own admission is kinda fuzzy on the whole economics issue thingie, has to get on his horse and pony express it to Washington to help save the nation, because he's such an altruistic, nation-first kind of guy? Coincidentally, just a couple days away from he and his V.P. stepping up to the plate on a national level?
Are you bloody kidding me?
Truly a Karl Rove showcase, truly a Karl Rove showstopper.
What's next? Hold our voting rights hostage until Rove sees the polling numbers he wants to see?
When are we going to pillory these people on the Washington mall as they so richly deserve--Rove, Cheney, Bush, Rumsfeld? They have reduced us to the kind of openly shameful nation against which we used to join the rest of the world in standing up against.
Every day, it feels like I'm waking up to some other country's lousy headlines about the consequences of the actions of their lousy leaders. But they're our headlines now.
Complain about this comment
"SO enough of attacking CLinton.
He cares about America, not about Politics at this stage."
Which is why he has said that he dos not believe that McCain is trying to duck the debate, and he highlighted the fact that McCain had repeatedly tried to have town hall debates with Obama as proof of this. He also blamed the democrats for blocking Fannie and Freddie reform (although I’m still having trouble believing I heard that in the ABC interview, so I double-checked this).
Complain about this comment
#46 - Ed Iglehart
Ed,
As I posted elsewhere - that's why far more hackers end up working for software houses than in court.
When it comes to fixing stuff, nobody does it better than the guys who screwed it in the first place.
Complain about this comment
Hopefully the view that is "echoed" is the one that reads, " the McCain campaign is past caring about how journalists (or colleagues) view his moves." Regardless of his posturing on the issue(s) at hand, that alone is a refreshing and welcome departure that should resonate with many voters even if his policies, economic and otherwise, always don't. Aren't we all getting to - or long since past - "caring how journalists view his (or anyone's) moves". That, at least, certainly has to be viewed as a point in his favor, if nothing else. It is also, at least as an encouraging notion to think of America in shades of a vanquished imperial Japan. It would certainly be welcome to have a new, or amended, American constitution as pacifist as that of Japan. It would also be nice to see a lot of American samurai falling on their swords. But, alas, it's still probably a long way off. America, sadly, is not "finished" bullying and terrorizing the rest of the world - it may not have the world's most powerful economy anymore but it still has the most powerful military, including plenty of the kind of WMD that developed "not necessarily to Japan's advantage" sixty years ago; and never-ending calamity ever since. The "American seriousness of purpose is well reflected" not only in a congress that just rushed through a massive $700 billion corporate welfare program "on the nod" - literally in a matter of hours - but in the "seriousness" in which congress and the executive ruthlessly stop at nothing - including WMD - to dominate and dictate around the world, no matter how many uncounted innocent dead bodies they pile up in the process.
Complain about this comment
No. 18 - AnotherOldBoy
After x8 years at the helm, please provide x1 bullet point one liner, per annum, as to just how GWB is *far better and more successful than Justin Webb and the rest (me) are prepared to accept* ?
No. 36 - rmvarel08
Sorry, I vehemently disagree.
It seems that a number of people think that modern leadership is all about cherry-picking the juicy, good, bits when things go well and, yes, enjoying the limelight and concomitant accolades that go with success.
But conversely, when disaster or failure strikes, increasingly one is smelling burning rubber as leaders either speed off in the getaway car leaving others to face the music or, brazenly, look around for someone else to blame or are found to be simply out of their depth.
In the old days, the captains of ships championed efficiency for the duration of any given voyage. They at least possessed the qualities of integrity and responsibility and, if calamity struck, they remained on the bridge managing whatever situations needed to be dealt with, putting the interests of passengers and crew absolutely first. Hence the coining of the phrase *went down with the ship* What's gone wrong?
On GWB, the fact that issues and problems trace back 8 or 88 years and / or that XY and Z bills or legislation had cross party signatures on them is completely irrelevant.
In my book, a true leader is an individual who is blessed with those qualities by which nations; companies; military units; institutions and ordinary people are inspired, motivated, directed and successfully led.
In this role, if the President of the United States can have a finger on a nuclear button, then he equally takes full responsibility for the ship, from first to last day in office. If the ship runs off course; is damaged in any way; is lost at sea or crew performance is poor, then the joined up dots lead directly to the captain.
Regrettably and I genuinely mean regrettably, the litany of things that have gone badly wrong , both at home and abroad, over the last 8 years for the United States provides the starkest litmus test result.
What say you girls and boys?
Bill
Complain about this comment
Ref 45
"Her thinking ability and presence (awareness) of impact shows improbable(eh) "Prez" material, but not to be insulted. She didn't pull the foobars that Biden does regularly".
Doug, I agree with your conclusion. Palin is definitely not presidential material, at least not at this time, and I have serious reservations about Biden's judgment. His entire career has been characterized by gaffes and misstatements. I think Obama should have chosen Sebelius; Richardson would have also been a better choice, but having two minorities in the same ticket would have doomed Obama's candidacy.
Complain about this comment
The massive bailout will be achieved by printing more money to increase liquidity, in some form or other. This will likely result in at least some instability of the dollar and certainly a significant amount of dollar inflation or contraction of the economy. Should the rest of the world now look at pricing oil in something other than USD? Under the fiscal mismanagement by GWB the USD is looking less and less reliable in its tradional role as a World Reserve Curency. This would remove the cost variation of oil to all the non-USD world which results from US domestic policy and the actions of Volcker/Greenspan/Bernanke et. al., and which is therefore beyond our control.
Complain about this comment
Sarah Palin told a crowd they were "all exceptional Americans"?
I do hope someone piped up "I'm not!"
Complain about this comment
Jason,
Say what you want.
When the stock market crashed in the past, what nation came to America's aid?
When America has had ANY major catastrophe, who has come to America's aid?
Sitting outside looking in and criticizing is easy to do.
Our nation is far from perfect, but there is none better. We know we have troubles, and we show them to the world.
Wonder why every nation in the world is so concerned? All the other nations depend on us to fortify their governments.
We have been in trouble before, and we WILL PULL OURSELVES up out of this also!
Complain about this comment
I read Cohen's essay, describing Palin's 'batty approach'. Wonder what the reaction would be amongst the East Coast elites, had Hilary, or Barack, or Edwards(remember him?) had been described as having a 'batty approach'?
Floods of righteous outrage, and Mr. Cohen would be promptly cleaning out his desk, thank you!
I knew it would take a while, but the Left finally found its normal condescending voice used to describe all those 'little people' who don't live in their world.
It's just an expansion of BHO's 'guns and religion' remark.
Short form: We're just stupid hicks who don't understand that the world is best run by the elites from New York, Washington, London...
Wait a minute! Let me think here in Tennessee for a moment....wasn't the current economic debacle brought about by all those 'smart people' who devised all those 'sophisticated financial instruments' that turned out to be worthless?
And WE are supposed to entrust our futures to the likes of THEM???
And people like us are 'batty'?
Don't mistake my slight drawl and the fact I drive a pickup as evidence of stupidity.
America is an Exceptional Place, and we will recover from this nonsense, and come out stronger for it.
Palin is anything but 'batty', folks.
Even if BHO is elected, heaven forbid, he has to govern a country where most counties and states will have voted against him, and will view him with great distrust.
He will need us.
Batty, indeed!
Complain about this comment
No question, Bush Jr.'s Presidency will end as a calamity.
Is America finished? Only if Americans want it to be.
Complain about this comment
BillTyrone (#60), I say that's a rather idealized picture of presidential dynamics. Certainly, when a president has served two terms, he must take considerable responsibility for things which happen on his watch. On the state of the economy, however, things can take long time to develop. My view is that our current problems started in the 1980s, with the Republican ascendancy led by President Reagan, and the attacks on New Deal regulations. The Democratic Party controlled Congress for most of the past quarter-century, however, so they cannot avoid a share of the blame. And it was much earlier, in 1968 in the Johnson (Democratic) administration that Fannie Mae was "privatized," which was when the foundations of the problem were laid. There are so many people involved over such a long period of time, that there are copious opportunities to lay the blame.
Complain about this comment
#60
I say 'Amen to that'
Honest Sam
Complain about this comment
DominickVila (#61), "gaffes" are not examples of poor "judgment." Anyone who talks as much as Biden, and over such a long period of time, is likely to make a gaffe now and then. Before the era of YouTube and a camera phone in every pocket, this wasn't a problem anyone noticed.
Complain about this comment
One thing that has me baffled; why would McCain want to associate himself with the bailout package? I mean lifting $2300 dollars out of every American's pocket is hardly a vote winner and if/when something goes wrong, like one of these finance houses turing a profit off of bailout money, or handing out bonuses, then the politicians associated with it are going to get it in the neck.
Surely far better for McCain to leave this as the Bush bail out plan rather than trying to turn it in to the Bush/McCain bailout plan?
Complain about this comment
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
To#52Garyahill
We have sometimes not agreed but this time I think we are on the 'same page.' Your post was excellent!
And #53, as well, perhaps I am getting very old but I also believe that Eisenhower was an excellent president, who took us through some trying times. He was a leader that people trusted.
To#60Billtyrone
Your words are so very eloquent, as well. I hope people are reading them and really thinking about our future.
Lastly, FEAR has been used to manipulate our votes for too long. We must say NO to FEAR and use reason to determine what is best for our country.
We DO have a very REAL financial crisis but it is being made worse by fear-mongering.
Please, all voters, really look at what is happening here.
Complain about this comment
64. At 9:00pm on 25 Sep 2008, Punkin101 wrote:
Jason,
Say what you want.
When the stock market crashed in the past, what nation came to America's aid?
When America has had ANY major catastrophe, who has come to America's aid?
Er WW1 WWII like every nation.
Complain about this comment
Punkin101 (#64), the French came to the aid of the colonies during our war of independence from Great Britain.
Complain about this comment
a prediction: if this election goes as close as it did 8 years ago, and there are any suggestions of vote rigging, constitutional coups or the popular vote is not reflected in the electoral college vote, there will be riots in america.
this election matters for voters much more than in 2000. add to that the racial dimension to any possible "cheating" of obama out of a win, and you get an explosive mix.
i am not saying republicans are the only ones that use dirty tactics, and i am not saying that obama should be the winner. i just think that there now exists a real tinder box of public opinion.
half of the us population has been disenfranchised by the winner-takes-all system of presidential election in the usa under bush. if the same people feel they are cheated again, after what has happened the last 8 years, and particularly in the last two weeks, i think they will take it onto the streets.
Complain about this comment
America has lost much of her greatness. Much has been squandered over many years, with a great deal happening since 2001. There is still hope, but it's unlikely to come from Obama and it certainly won't come from McCain. It will likely come from the "fringe" members of the Left and Right. Those who are willing to admit America is not perfect and should hold itself to the same standards it holds others. Those who are pacifists or noninterventionists. Those who favor ending government subsidies to corporations.
If they play their cards right, the fringe candidates for Congress could do well this year. Who knows? If they make an issue of it, the third-party presidential candidates could get a great showing based on their opposition to the bailout.
Unfortunately, barring a miracle, it's likely to come down between McCain and Obama, both of whom promise change and reform, but won't bring either.
Complain about this comment
#64 Punkin 101.
Spot on, America has not decended from
frightened men or women...
Complain about this comment
Punkin101 (#64), and don't forget that the UK held the Nazis at bay alone among our western European allies for two or three years while the US got adjusted to the idea that we would have to go to war. Fortunately, the Japanese gave us an "attitude adjustment" (conveniently reinforced by the Nazis).
Complain about this comment
To#67Garyahill
You have totally 'NAILED IT!
When things start to hit the fan, a scapegoat is needed, but in this case the seeds of disaster were sown long ago by more than one party.
Perhaps, WE THE PEOPLE, should take our own responsibility for not keeping better EYES and EARS on those we elect. It is not enough to just vote, we also need to pay some real attention to what the people we have elected are doing.
Eternal vigilance....etc
Complain about this comment
#43 LadyBobbieBea wrote:
"Political and historical scholars, please corrent me if I'm wrong...Eisenhower also graduated at the bottom of his West Point class."
According to Wikipedia, "Eisenhower graduated in the upper half of the class of 1915"
Complain about this comment
41, Galeooo.
Maybe McCain is trying to duck out of campaigning because he doesn't want Palin to face off with Biden. That would surely be an unequal contest. The old man is a very tricky guy.
Complain about this comment
Here is an interesting excerpt from FDR's first inaugural address:
Franklin D. RooseveltThe difference today is that the "rulers of the exchange of mankind's goods" have not "admitted their failure, and abdicated."
Complain about this comment
# 347 Allmymarbles..
Thank you for 347. Your dad was just like I
have always felt you to be.
Complain about this comment
The SEC never enforced effectively the practice of naked shorting. Some pundits even claimed it was beneficial to the market. How manipulating stock prices can be beneficial to the market is beyond me.
With the failure of Bear Stearns and Lehman Brothers, the SEC had finally to own up to the problem and called a halt to the practice. For some reason known only to the SEC it addressed only financial stocks.
I have watched a couple of fine companies (nonfinancial) whose price is continually manipulated by short selling. When prices for a stable company are erratic and out of sync with its sector, look for short selling.
Complain about this comment
After so many months of every expert and their dog denying and refuting the fact that yes, we are actually in a recession, it's kind of funny to see the same experts running around trying madly to convince everyone that we are now near financial apocalypse.
Complain about this comment
OOOOO!! Watch'a bet McCain sends Palin to debate in his place?!? OOOo OOO oooo... that could be so fun to watch!
Complain about this comment
Allymarbles, agreed, short-selling is gambling of the worse kind and it beggars belief that it is seen as a legitimate transaction. It is merely a device to screw a great many people.
Complain about this comment
THE BIRK PLAN
I'm in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in a We Deserve It Dividend.
To make the math simple, let's assume there are 200,000,000 bonafide U.S. Citizens 18+. Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman and child. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up..
So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billon that equals $425,000.00. My plan is to give $425,000 to every person 18+ as a "We Deserve It Dividend".
Of course, it would NOT be tax free. So let's assume a tax rate of 30%. Every individual 18+ has to pay $127,500.00 in taxes. That sends $25,500,000,000 right back to Uncle Sam. But it means that every adult 18+ has $297,500.00 in their pocket. A husband and wife has $595,000.00.
Invest in the market - capital drives growth Pay for your parent's medical insurance - health care improves. Enable Deadbeat Dads to come clean - or else
If we're going to re-distribute wealth let's really do it...instead of trickling out a puny $1000.00 ( "vote buy" ) economic incentive that is being proposed by one of our candidates for President.
I trust my fellow adult Americans to know how to use the $85 Billion "We Deserve It Dividend" more than I do the geniuses at AIG or in Washington DC . And remember, The Birk plan only really costs $59.5 Billion because $25.5 Billion is returned instantly in taxes to Uncle Sam.
Complain about this comment
#63 Robin, this mind-numbing Palin quote reminds me
of a singular passage in film making history.
The next thing that we'll be hearing is the political
version of the Sermon on the Mount.
Complain about this comment
39. doctor_steve_usa:
"I watched President Bush last night and was reminded of the exact same type of rhetoric that escaped his lips regarding the Axis of Evil, Iraq, WMD and mushroom clouds... "
And this is why you are also part of the problem.
Bush was not talking about Iraq, WMD, etc. He was talking about a very serious problem facing our financial system. Yet, you liken it to a made-up threat of mushroom clouds?
Who is it, then, who is stuck in the rhetoric of the past?
Time to move on.
Complain about this comment
#74 - Gary_A_Hill
I take your point but do not forget that we are talking about pre-revolution France - still then an absolute monarchy.
The idea that the French were interested in democratic idealism half way round the world is a bit naive. They wanted an excuse to beat up on the Brits and the American Revolution fitted the bill perfectly.
Ironic really that it was the French Revolution that gave the Brits the opportunity to redress the balance.
Complain about this comment
52. Gary_A_Hill:
"I'm not given to pursue conspiracy theories, but I wonder if this crisis hasn't been stage-managed to some extent to interfere with the campaigns and debates. "
Or maybe Warren Buffet's really behind it.
Why people think McCain would run away from a debate with Obama on foreign policy is beyond me.
Complain about this comment
83, ukwales.
I am so glad you read the note about my father. Actually his greatest gift was humor and he had a marvelous sense of the absurd. That has touched all of us. I have lived through earthquakes, a hurricane at sea, a revolution, and coups d'etats. Looking at these events from his point of view (and mine, I guess), there were funny bits in all of it.
Complain about this comment
700 Billion divided by 200 million equals 350,000.00
Sorry about the last post, didn't check them numbers first
Complain about this comment
Punkin101(#64) and Gary_A_Hill
When you announced independence there was one small nation who recognised it,
newspapers and public here saluted you,
and volunteers went to fight on your side.
Guess who. Russia.
Complain about this comment
65. OldSouth:
"Short form: We're just stupid hicks who don't understand that the world is best run by the elites from New York, Washington, London...
Wait a minute! Let me think here in Tennessee for a moment....wasn't the current economic debacle brought about by all those 'smart people' who devised all those 'sophisticated financial instruments' that turned out to be worthless?
And WE are supposed to entrust our futures to the likes of THEM??? "
*****************
And don't forget all those Ivy-educated congressman and senators who were supposed to create laws to regulate that behavior.
A voice from "fly over" country is always refreshing.
Your comment brings to mind William F. Buckley, Jr., who said that he would sooner “live in a society governed by the first two thousand names in the Boston telephone directory than in a society governed by the two thousand faculty members of Harvard University.”
Hard to argue with him.
Complain about this comment
70. AsaScot:
"One thing that has me baffled; why would McCain want to associate himself with the bailout package? I mean lifting $2300 dollars out of every American's pocket is hardly a vote winner and if/when something goes wrong, like one of these finance houses turing a profit off of bailout money, or handing out bonuses, then the politicians associated with it are going to get it in the neck.
Surely far better for McCain to leave this as the Bush bail out plan rather than trying to turn it in to the Bush/McCain bailout plan?"
***********************
You do realize that if our economy tanks, every single politician will be voted out of office by some very angry Americans?
Bush will be long gone. This is not about Bush, despite people's fixation on him.
Complain about this comment
89, guns.
Make that Sermon on the Mount, the musical.
Complain about this comment
94, Doug.
I promise to sell my vote for $350 million. I would even sell it to Palin. Then I would get my huge extended family together and we would buy DC and depose her, and put me in her place.
Complain about this comment
Despite all his bluster, Mr McCain appears not to have had and meaningful input as this illustrates.
Complain about this comment
DougTexan, in America $1billion is One Thousand Million $1,000,000,000 so the Birk math is flawed. The payout would be $4,250 each not $425,000.
Even so that sounds like a better idea to me than bailing out the bankers!
Complain about this comment
Obama's plan should McCain not show up for the debate is to hold a town hall style meeting or a one-on-one interview with the moderator Jim Lehrer (who is excellent). He will shine and show that the cheap tricks and games are not the fiddling about we are need or are interested in as Rome burns. The Republican law makers are facing re-election and if they vote to bail out the fat cats, they risk further ire from an already stressed and angry electorate. My hope is that the electorate are angry enough to carry through and vote.
Complain about this comment
Fellow Blog Members,
I find myself in the unenviable position of apologizing to John AAA. But as a matter of honor I must do so. I must also apologize for the tardiness of this posting, since I have been distracted. Due to some pressing customer needs I missed my morning work out and did not read USA Today until this evening.
For over a week now JohnAAA has asserted that there is a scandal related to lobbyists, the 2005 bill proposed by Senator Oxley, Freddie Mac and Fannie May and lobbying on their behalf. I insisted if such an issue existed, the mainstream press would cover it. Today they did.
In 2005 an amendment to Senator Oxley's bill was proposed that would have prevented Fannie and Freddie from investing in sub prime mortgages. This would have stopped them from collapsing recently. I still maintain this would have precipitated the current crisis earlier. That is opinion.
As JohnAAA pointed out, one of the presidential candidates voted against regulating Fannie and Freddie, one for. John points out that in his opinion that vote was influenced by Fannie Freddie lobbyist connections.
It turns out Obama voted for the amendment, McCain against. McCains cam[paign manager and several others associated with him were taking payment (until last month) from Fannie Freddie. There is potentailly a scandal that mcCain tookmoney and voted to create the current crisis.
I apologize to John without reservation. there is potentially a scandal here. That he believed the scandal was associated with obama and not McCain, and that he had the voting record backwards are minor details that should, in my opinion be forgiven.
The greater scandal here is the factually inaccurate attack ads aimed at Obama. i think Obama was wrong, the ads attack him for doing exactly what McCain claims he didn;t do, but did.
As Spongebob would say: Baaaaaaahhhhhhhhh!
Sorry John
Apologetic Sam
Complain about this comment
#101. zebrahost "the Birk math is flawed" - By more than you say: $85,000,000,000 divided by 200,000,000 is $425.00
Complain about this comment
Ref 102
I think the large number of House Republicans that oppose the bailout have put themselves in a box. If they acquiesce and approve the bailout they will be accused of supporting a "socialist" program by their constituents, if they reject the plan and Wall Street, our financial and banking institutions, and the economy collapse they will be blamed for blocking a rescue plan that would have prevented the meltdown of our capitalist system.
What bothers me the most about this whole episode is that our leaders - especially the President - have not articulated the severity of the problems facing us and are simply asking us to trust them with our money...or the Chinese...
I realize they are trying to avert panic and a run on the banks, but I think they should be more forthcoming.
Complain about this comment
Ref 99
Are you sure you want to buy DC? I think Wasilla is a better deal, if nothing else because you can see the Russians from afar, if you are wearing the right kind of Japanese made glasses that is.
Complain about this comment
#92,
Andrea,
Because he is running away? Gnerally speaking that is reason to say 'you are running away'.
Apparently he is now 'hopeful' he will be able to attend the debate because he won't be needed to do something he isn't needed to do and has actively disrupted.
Ironic given that McCain wants to put Buffet on an 'impartial panel' to handle the bail out. I'd be impartial too if I had $60bn in the market. To be fair to Buffet, he'd probably say 'NFW'.
Sad Sam
Complain about this comment
I don't see how Obama's showing up to a debate by himself will enhance his image.
Under these extraordinary circumstances, he might even be asked about the bailout. Maybe they can ask him about the mysterious deal that the democrats had --but forgot to mention to the republicans -- before McCain arrived in DC. I'm sure the American public would like to hear all about it.
Complain about this comment
#88
Doug,
I hate to differ, but the $85bn for AIG is a loan and as such is not taxble.
That deal is a very smart one. It balances risk and confidence. If AIG are screwed they can get $85bn for 80% of the company as immediate liquidity, the US of A gets 80% of the company in return. It stops speculators because any firm will take the laon before going bankrupt. Taxpayers because we would get a company, and AIG because the short sellers are out of the equation.
I am Sam Tyler and I approve this approach.
Complain about this comment
David_Cunard I bow to your superior calculator.
I'll still take the 425 bucks in a selfless act to save the global financial system.
Complain about this comment
107. SamTyler1969 :
"Because he is running away? Gnerally speaking that is reason to say 'you are running away'."
I hate to be the one to break it to you, Wishful Thinking Sam, but McCain is not afraid of Barack Obama.
Obama's still in diapers when it comes to McCain.
Complain about this comment
105. DominickVila:
"Ref 102
I think the large number of House Republicans that oppose the bailout have put themselves in a box. If they acquiesce and approve the bailout they will be accused of supporting a "socialist" program by their constituents, if they reject the plan and Wall Street, our financial and banking institutions, and the economy collapse they will be blamed for blocking a rescue plan that would have prevented the meltdown of our capitalist system. "
Most Americans don't want to bail out Wall Street. Republicans may very well be perceived as the ones who ultimately changed the deal to better suit Main Street.
The democrats are claiming they had a deal before McCain arrived, but can't provide proof of any such deal. No one's talking of a democrat deal right now.
Complain about this comment
106. Dominick.
Good suggestion. However because it is the crystal meth capital of Alaska I am afraid I might turn violent and kill all the meeses (plural of mooses).
Complain about this comment
I wouldn't be surprised if one of the main reasons for the urgency in solving the Wall Street banking and financial crises is because the FDIC doesn't have enough funds to cover massive losses if the 100+ banks that are on the verge of being declared insolvent go belly up, in addition to those that have already failed. Can anyone imagine the panic that will spread throughout the country if people realized that their bank deposits, investments, pensions and credit lines are in jeopardy?
I expect the DJIA to tank tomorrow.
Complain about this comment
So you people think the Rothchild's coup on the London Exchange after Wellington's defeat of Napolean was brilliant eh?
Well, with the wisdom of hindsight that was small change compared to the deal the Indians pulled off when they dumped Manhattan and got $24 into the bargain.
Complain about this comment
105. At 02:04am on 26 Sep 2008, DominickVila
You nailed it. Even in tho other direction ie: Democrats do or don't rather than Republicans, neither want to be called socialist/communist or fascist
Complain about this comment
http://blog.beliefnet.com/crunchycon/2008/09/palin-debacle-on-cbs-evening-n.html
Palin is imploding before our eyes. This critique is from a conservative who used to like her.
Her interviews with Katie Couric have got to be the most damning evidence yet that this woman is clearly out of her depth.
Complain about this comment
DougTexan
socialism and fascism are not the same thing.
If you think we are better than Sweden, Norway, Danmark, you are greatly mistaken.
You seem to fear something that has been engraved in your brain as being evil, when you know nothing about it.
This is the end of American's financial ruling of the world, and now we are about to become slaves of our own economical problems.
This time I feel for Bush, and McCain is doing everything to stop this from happening for political reasons.
We are all afraid, but you forget, this has not happened before. Noone has answers, and it is not like Bush or Paulson are trying to test the congress on the issue.
but it is clear that this is about politics and saving McCain to the republicans, and they will do everything they can to stop Bush from doing this, even though as of this moment the Republicans did not have an alternative.
This is economical suicide, and I am ashamed that such people call themselves American. Perhaps today's definition of American is very different than what it set out to be. And McCain is the example of the sort of American one should not be.
Complain about this comment
No. 80 John in Dublin
Thank you, John. I stand corrected.
b
Complain about this comment
"Is America finished?"
I think it probably is, despite those contributors here who rather naively assume that some kind of "exceptionalism-cum-optimism" will get them out of any trouble, or that somehow the rest of the world depends on the US, or that its current economic troubles can be easily fixed by making everything Americans need in America . . .
In reverse order: returning manufacturing to the USA is simply impossible, unless the same citizens who want cheap gas, cheap clothes, cheap food and Walmart prices for everything suddenly become willing to live off Third World wages. Or forget that 2000 mile fence and set up an internal third world economy of illegal immigrants to do that. (Oh, come to think if it, doesn't that exist already?)
Some parts of the world are not all that dependent on the US economy any more; viz. China and India: I have already heard today an Indian economist pointing out that even the EU is rapidly becoming less economically important to Indian manufacturing and exports than it was just two years ago. So no doubt the same would be true of the US.
And believing America is somehow blessed isn't going to sort out this current financial mess. (By the way, this crisis is not "severe", it's "serious". I do wish people would stop confusing the two words.) It requires some fundamental changes which simply aren't going to come from anyone by the look of today's events. (A little chat between Dubbya, McCain and Obama really achieved a lot, didn't it? Oh, dear, how utterly pathetic. It's so much easier to start a war than fix an economic crisis, isn't it?)
So far, the only proposal appears to be basically the same old short term one US administrations have been using for years: keep industry afloat when it's actually near bankrupt by having a war and throwing Pentagon money at it. (How else do Boeing and the car manufacturers survive? Certainly not on domestic sales.) America has already become in effect a state-controlled manufacturing economy.
And then there is external politics. Forget Iraq, Iran, Syria, Georgia. Look to what is happening in Africa and, nearer to "home" South America. Both China and Russia are cementing energy and commodities contracts all over the place, while the US rants about the "War on Terror" and tries to implant military bases on some kind of perversion of the old saying about General Motors: "What's good for the Pentagon is good for the USA."
The next few years is looking pretty messy; and the last week seems to have shown the rest of the world nothing other than people in a oanic heading towards an abyss at full speed with their eyes shut and their minds firmly fixed on half-a-dozen words on a piece of paper concocted under the influence of European philosophers over 200 years ago in the hope that that represents some kind of code for managing an economy in the 21st century.
I'm still waiting to hear exactly how long it will take to pay the Chinese the interest on all those trillions of dollars that are blithely being thrown about. It won't be coming out of American taxpayers' pockets, as so many seem to think. Not unless they suddenly become willing to pay Scandinavian rates . . .
It'll be financed from government bonds bought by other countries around the world who will be collecting billions in interest on them. Wouldn't it be amusing if Venezuela buys in? Especially as that country is now going to go nuclear too with the help of Russia. Unless, of course, the Americans can get the Israelis to bomb it after Iran . . .
You see. you can't sign nuclear agreements with India, say you can forget about the non-proliferation treaty, and then expect other countries not to do likewise. American foreign policy over the last fifty years has showed paucity of thought and blithe disregard for consequences. They're coming home to roost, yet again.
(That reminds me; Chavez "the dictator" was elected too . . . It's no good pontificating about democracy when you want cheap petrol. The US supports one or two very nasty reall dictatorial regimes in Africa just for that, by the way, just as communist China does . . .)
That will precipitate, inevitably, another financial meltdown in the US; it's just a matter of when.
I've thought for some years that the "American Imperium" was bound to collapse as, historically, despite the notion of "exceptionalism" they all have. America hasn't actually brought history to an end. It just seems likely now to be likely rather earlier than I expected, maybe in the next decade. And it's self-inflicted.
And why aren't either of the candidates coming up with any ideas other than just posing and sounding baffled? I might stay up to find out if they come up with anything on Friday, if that goes ahead, of course, but I won't hold my breath.
If it does, and they stick to wittering about terrorism, Syria, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iraq, Venezuela, fences to keep Mexicans out, then I will despair of your presidential candidates, neither of whom seem at the moment to be showing any more grasp of any situation, let alone the current financial one, than your average goldfish. How about a coup? The Pentagon and the CIA have had plenty of experience in mounting them elsewhere. . .
Complain about this comment
No. 53 Gary
I have now read much of Wikipedia's information and stand better informed.
Thanks!
bobbie (continuing to learn and grow)
Complain about this comment
While some folks are wringing their hands, Obama supporters like myself are taking voter-registration forms and info with us everywhere we go - talking to folks on our buslines, our disability-van rides, on the corner waiting for the light to change, in lines at the grocery store - you name it: we're registering voters for OBAMA. We've absolutely had it. This week's McPain-o-drama is the last straw. Palin was an insult, the debate-duck maneuver is absolutely unforgiveable. The only reason McPain needs to actually show up in Washington is to get a new RUBBER STAMP from Dick Cheney and his puppy, Prez Dubya.
I'm having "drop-in for Obama" gatherings in my apartment for my building neighbors who need absentee-ballot applications, voter-registration forms, or need to know where to go vote. Made up a simple leaflet, posted in our laundry rooms in my building. SIMPLE: grassroots people power.
USA VOTERS ARE HAVING A REVOLT - and IT AIN'T FOR MCCAIN. Time to tell the truth about it!!!!!
Complain about this comment
In a desperate attempt of not being off-topic, let me quote Justin :
"So is America finished?"
That said, has anyone watched the CBS interview of Palin ?
I can't provide any constructive criticism, my apologies, as her demeanor is beyond anything worth an evaluation.
Or maybe I just don't know what to say about such a display of - what ?
Sorry about my poor English, too, I'm trying hard, but at least I'm not running for VP.
Please watch it, it's disheartening.
As for being off-topic, this person was chosen to be his #2 by the Republican candidate, and it's the future US government which is going to handle the finacial crisis.
Everyone can have a bad moment, say something stupid, which is blown out of proportion, but this, it's bizarre...
Complain about this comment
But America cannot afford to rest its hopes in the hands of old rich white cowboys who no brains.
Goleooo:
I am no fan of Bush, but insulting and offensive remarks about anyone's race are not acceptable. Bigorty is still bigotry, no matter how you express it - and there should be no place for it in civilized society.
Complain about this comment
117
That's very funny. Especially:
"Couric: I'm just going to ask you one more time - not to belabor the point. Specific examples in his 26 years of pushing for more regulation.
Palin: I'll try to find you some and I'll bring them to you."
But then, Obama proclaiming he is "monitoring the situation" is almost as inept.
There are some things that are so satirical in themselves you just can't satirise them, aren't there?
Complain about this comment
BBC: Please consider resuming short wave radio broadcasts to North America. I have a battery operated short wave radio..."This is London calling"...it would be so reassuring.
Complain about this comment
No. 113 Ms. Marbles
oh, please don't kill the meeses. They're innocent bystanders.
b
Complain about this comment
# 103
Sam,
This posting was, I think, inspired.
Could you please re-write so that Andrain and I cannot mistake what you are saying?
_____________________________-
Can this be true?
"according to results of a new ABC News-Washington Post poll released Wednesday. Fifty-three percent of the likely voters responding expressed a preference for Obama; 43 percent favored McCain. Two weeks ago, McCain held a 49 percent to 47 percent lead."
Complain about this comment
"In the British parliamentary system, we sometimes take the quick action route and always regret it."
Yes, but you don't allow a failed administration to continue for 8 years. Here is a not I sent to friends from another friend named Joe.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
If you want my opinion on how all this American financial mess got started you can trace it back to the Johnson Administration and 1969. That was almost 40 years ago and a time when we were fighting in Viet Nam. It was also when Johnson launched the ‘Great Society’ program providing Medicare, Medicaid and a whole host of other social programs. I’m not against social programs to help those who need help and serve the general welfare of the people. However, you cannot fight a war and expand social services without raising taxes. Johnson didn’t. Since that time both of our political parties have found the key to getting elected and power is to promise the American people everything and tell them there is no cost. Most of us have been dumb enough to drink the Kool-Aid. And, our current President and both our Presidential candidates are offering us more of the same.
A lot has gone on since then but where does that put us today? Several weeks ago, I think it was after our bailout of Bear Sterns, I heard a media ‘news’ reporter ask a financial expert what would have happened if we hadn’t done the bailout. The expert responded, “Our government would collapse.” That statement went right over the reporter’s head and there was no follow-up question. But, it didn’t go over my head and I started thinking. What does it mean to say our government would collapse? I think it means exactly what the expert said; but, unfortunately, I don’t think our Constitution offers any guidelines on what to do if the federal government does collapse. If you read The Federalist, Paper No. 28, Alexander Hamilton outlines a strategy for addressing a federal government out of control. I hope we don’t have to go that route as it would have all true power revert to the States and charge our respective Governors to take up arms in a confederation to defend our rights against Washington; in other words, civil war. In case you didn’t know, that is why we have State militias defined by State Constitutions.
So, what do we do? I don’t know but we better be thinking about it. It took almost 12 years for our forefathers to hammer out our original Constitution and the flaws in that one resulted in our first and only Civil War. We won’t have 12 years to come up with another plan and a collapsed United States will be viewed by the rest of the world as the most dangerous failed regime on the planet. Remember all those Nukes we have? They won’t give us much time. We need to understand that if we don’t get this right and restore sanity to our financial markets, our political system and our federal government, we are in deep wheat and the rest of the world will be angry as hell because as we go, so do they; except perhaps China and India who are on the verge of self-sustaining economies like we once had. It’s always easier to take a fall when you aren’t falling very far. They won’t but we will.
If this all goes to hell in a hand basket I think we need to consider the fact we will probably have to change our form of government. I think the States should remain intact and we should maintain a strong federal government and a democratic Republic based on free market capitalism but our legislative and executive institutions will have to change. If the worst proves true, rather than continue our current, self-defeating partisan divide, we will need to admit we can no longer afford a system that allows politicians to lie to us and then gives them between four and eight years in power before we try to correct the error. The world moves too fast for that today.
What are our freedom-based, democratic options? There are many but I think we should consider a parliamentary form of government like the British have. It took them hundreds of years, many of them bloodied by civil war, to craft it, but it has withstood two World Wars with them fighting to survive on their own soil. It isn’t perfect, it lacks a true constitution and Bill of Rights but it also doesn’t allow an administration to linger on once it becomes perfectly clear it has run off track. We can and should keep our Bill of Rights and many other elements of our current Constitution if we do make a change, but we must recognize that change may be necessary to our survival as a nation.
I hate to be writing these thoughts but I think all Americans need a reality check. Our current path is unsustainable even if we dodge the bullet today or next week or escape paying the Piper for a few more years. But, there is no free lunch and we need to admit reality.
Complain about this comment
127, Lady.
I couldn't kill meeses because Wasilla is only a one-mooses town.
Complain about this comment
Regarding post 129. Joe also sent this to me last night. I apologize for his rank language.
++++++++++++++++++++++++
US Financial/Economic Crisis and President Bush's Speech Tonight--Imperial Extortion
_________________________________
Update:
- Russia sailed a naval battle group to Venezuela last week for joint exercises--we can't respond
- Russia had already deployed a two plane strategic/anti-submarine bomber group to Venezuela in the week previous--we didn't respond
- North Korea has announced intent to resume nuclear fuel reprocessing--we can't respond
- Iran has gained legitimacy for its nuclear program at the UN General Assembly in NY--the world is silent--we can't respond
- US has had to restructure the command structure for the war in Afghanistan (today) because democracy is losing--that's our best response--shuffle paper--in other words, we can't respond
- Al Qaeda attacks are up in Iraq--duh
Pakistan is firing on our troops and aircraft that approach their borders--we can't respond
- The National Bank of Australia intends to file claims of $1B US against our recovery plan (tonight)--they are responding in ways we probably don't want--more will follow
- Chris Matthews on Hardball tonight suggested perhaps we consider a parliamentary form of government--we are confused
- John McCain runs away from presidential debates--he can't respond coherently
- Congressional leadership and presidential candidates are called to bleak house for a bi-partisan leadership meeting tomorrow--the riot act will be read and puppet masters will be given instructions on what strings to pull to continue the charade of American democracy--the people don't know how to respond because we are clueless
Summary: We're screwed.
_________________________________
P.S. The world senses our weakness and the vultures are circling....
Complain about this comment
***
Complain about this comment
Justin Webb, though I have a Anglophile mentality and a love of foreign views of the inept American system, is a not very bright, overly verbose reporter who renders entire subjects moot by his own inability to hit the point. People lose interest. People get offended at British effete lack of understanding of the modern world. Please replace him with Tony Blair or a Southend hawker--anyone would do.
Complain about this comment
Is America finished? Not yet, but I think the finish line is nearly in sight. 8 years of Bush/Cheney/Rice have just about ruined the economy, going from a surplus under Clinton to a massive deficit.
Great choice America, although I have little sympathy for you because you had the chance to toss them out 4 years ago after 4 years of lies, corruption and gross incompetence. But you kept them in office and you are now literally going to pay the cost of that.
It astounds me that the Iraq war alone has cost the US at least 2 Trillion dollars and that doesn't seem to register. You should be outraged that your government spend millions, billions and trillions, destroying a country on the other side of the planet while your own country falls apart.
Zbigniew Brzezinski brags about the Afghan trap he set for the Soviets in 80's by drawing them into a prolonged conflict which drained their economy and demoralised their military. And that it also contributed to the break-up of the USSR.
But the USA has gone one better than the Soviets. You guys set your own trap and not just one but two, and then promptly walked into them in Iraq and Afghanistan.
So a war that Rummy said could be over in weeks or months is still going. I guess he didn't specify how many weeks or months it would last.
And now your economy is doing a face plant and George the Idiot looks like he has been caught asleep at the wheel again just like Sept 11.
If America continues on it current course internationally then this bailout will be like a band aid for a melanoma, it will just be a stay of execution because you can't continue to poor billions and trillions into Iraq and Afghanistan and expect everything at home to still be rosy.
McCain/Palin will offer you more war and then some, and they also offer a Bush like stewardship so at least your fate will be swift.
Obama/Biden will probably offer you more war too, although I think there is half a chance that they at least might end your Iraqi nightmare. And with that, maybe the economic and military blinkers will come off.
So just to be clear on my sway, I think America should go for Obama/Biden despite
Obama's slightly aloof persona and Biden’s gaffes.
With Obama/Biden I think America and the world would wait with bated breath to see what sort of America emerges under their stewardship.
With McCain/Palin there will be no anticipation and I think you can expect more of the same and maybe even worse. One thing you can expect is more war which will cost you....more money.
But is it better the devil you know?
I certainly hope not.
Complain about this comment
#98, Ms. Marbles, I'm looking forward to the day
that one of our politicians reinterprets the parable
of the 5 loaves of bread and two fishes as it applies
to the fractional banking system.
Complain about this comment
Post 133. What is your point? The time for personal attacks is over. We should appreciate the fact that we even have a different point of view or at least an opinion that causes Americans to get off their couches. Personally, I don't particularly care for the BBC or The Economist. But I listen or read them just the same...just to stay sane. In all my travels around the world they were the only things I could count on to be there...and today, I'm glad they are here now. Now get to the point...the future of America...if there is one.
Complain about this comment
58. At 7:30pm on 25 Sep 2008, threnodio wrote:
#46 - Ed Iglehart
As I posted elsewhere - that's why far more hackers end up working for software houses than in court.
When it comes to fixing stuff, nobody does it better than the guys who screwed it in the first place.
threnodio, you're confusing cause with effect. Does the name Robert Oppenheimer ring a bell?
Complain about this comment
135, guns.
There are plenty of people eating the loaves and fishes, just not us. And it's not a miracle. Just business as usual.
Complain about this comment
#129/131: chitlins - Time for you to have your own blog - those are hardly "notes"!
Incidentally, Medicare started in 1965 and Medicaid shortly thereafter. Life for most people in the USA has benefited enormously because of the foresight of Lyndon Johnson.
You propose to change the way America is governed, but propose nothing. Apart from anything else, because of the sheer enormity of the USA, a parliamentary form of government, based on the Westminster model, would be impractical. British Members of Parliament represent small geographical areas (constituencies) and for a state the size of, say, California, there would be dozens, if not hundreds of MPs. I can't see that a change would be in the least beneficial.
Complain about this comment
America is not finished, it will continue on despite the current gloom and doom atmosphere Bush has promoted with his speech. The idea that this issue will some how end the most powerful nation on earth is a bit odd.
However...
People pointing to our history must realize this is not the nation George Washington, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson founded. It does not hold the same values as Thomas Paine so elegantly wrote about. The Republic died long ago and has been replaced by a Democracy. So any references to that lost past are irrelevant anymore.
That is the sad truth, the United States of America past it's torch to America as the Federal government gained power through populist rule. So in one sense America was finished long ago, but on the other side a new America was born. That new America will not falter do to this one crisis.
Complain about this comment
129, 131, chitlin.
If you want all of us to read your comments, you really should try for brevity.
Complain about this comment
Letterman feels like an ugly date
No lipstick for you
McCain is still campaigning, and Palin still argues that just being near Russia and Canada gives her foreign policy credentials.
Re:#103. Hopefully Sam managed to get his trainers on this morning. Spinning this end.
Complain about this comment
108. At 02:15am on 26 Sep 2008, AndreainNY wrote:
I don't see how Obama's showing up to a debate by himself will enhance his image. "
You can't see that.
Well let's make it clear, it shows he is not running away. Like his increasingly bizzare opponent.
"Under these extraordinary circumstances, he might even be asked about the bailout. Maybe they can ask him about the mysterious deal that the democrats had --but forgot to mention to the republicans -- before McCain arrived in DC. I'm sure the American public would like to hear all about it."
Maybe mcCain should ask this, he is supposed to be debating.
You have to ask if McCain needs medical aid, his behaviour has gone off the wall - bellowing at his own president!
A failed candidate and a lame duck, muist have been quite a pillow fight.
Complain about this comment
Complain about this comment
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Threnodio,
This may be an old saying, but in this case, I have my doubts, and the conflicts of interest are manifest.Salaam, etc.
ed
Complain about this comment
Sam,
Possibly Buffett made his investment to clearly disqualify himself? A very cannie man.Reminder
ed
Complain about this comment
Goleoo,
Ah, but it has. Many times.Salaam, etc.
ed
Complain about this comment
Chitlins,
Right On! And my kind regards to Joe, too.
Salaam, etc.
ed
Complain about this comment
Sam,
Thanks so much for doing the honourable thing and apologising to JohnAAA. Sometimes it's best to admit one's mistakes.
If you do get involved with EPRIDA, I'm sure we can agree a modest finder's fee - perhaps in Liffey Water
Slainte!
ed
Complain about this comment
David,
lthough Chitlins might have seemed a bit longwinded, he isn't 'langweilig' in the sense of 'boring' and, at least, he didn't need to be told the value of paragraph breaks, like some I might mention.
Salaam, etc.
ed
Complain about this comment
# "I can't see that a change would be in the least beneficial."
1. An insufferable government would not be allowed to continue unabated.
2. The perverting influence of corporate campaign contributions might be blunted because there would be hundreds that must be bought and not just two corrupt parties.
3. Most importantly, the voice of the people might actually be heard. Today, 80 percent or more of America’s electorate is ignored to cater to the special interests who buy the winner. Consequently, we can’t develop a coherent policy on anything and the frustration of the average American has just about reached the point of violent boil over.
As I said, there are many options to consider. I simply suggested a parliamentary option might be the first one. Regardless, I think our State governors should consider calling a constitutional convention to restore democracy and the rule of law in America. Our political system today is dead and its rot is infecting the entire world.
Complain about this comment
#111
He's so not afraid he won'tshow up and face him?
Helpful Sam
Complain about this comment
#149
LOL. Thanks Ed. One of my guys is looking at that. We still can't figure out the chemistry . . . .
Academic Sam
Complain about this comment
Another blog I was reading had a poster who compared the failed bank executives to Enron executives. He didn't expand on his comparison, only suggested none should receive compensation, but should be fired and then prosecuted.
Have laws been broken or did deregulation allow freedom for irresponsibility? I can think of them as crooks, but are they really?Are they being protected from the consequences of their actions or inactions?
How much protection does the corporate veil offer in such situations? Is there any fear that their personal assets will be seized?
Thanks,
b
Complain about this comment
#150. Ed Iglehart: "Although Chitlins might have seemed a bit longwinded, he isn't 'langweilig' in the sense of 'boring'" Tedious perhaps?
I've always considered German to be a most unfortunate language since English has so many more descriptive words. As I recall, even you have suggested that such long pieces belong to another blog. As for paragraph breaks (and I note the sarcasm) I was taught (in England) that such breaks should come with a change of subject - not for the visual convenience of the reader.
#141. allmymarbles - Seconded!!
Complain about this comment
LadyBobbieBea
No laws were broken, and it is the regulations that caused the problem.
The U.S. government created "Safety Nets" for the corporations. These Safety Nets gave the banks the chance to give out very risky loans, sometimes loans they knew the people could never pay. The way the credit system works in the U.S. the loaners are almost always guaranteed to get their money even if the person defaults.
In fact, many creditors purposely seek out people with bad credit or a bankruptcy. The reason for this is after 180 days a default loan is "covered" through tax deductions and they can sell the debt to someone else as a "charge off". So they get their money plus make an additional profit by selling the debt, then the people who bought the debt can make a profit as well. Usually earning about 150% profit off of a loan which was never paid between the two companies.
In the end it is the government who messed everything up (as usual) and now it is seeking to create a massive safety net with these bailouts.
Complain about this comment
oops not 150% profit 100 dollars turns into 150 dollars which is not a 150% profit :P
Complain about this comment
Nos. 156 and 157
Stecha,
Thank you! I used to be so blissful in my ignorance, now I, like a lot of other Americans, am sickened with my new found knowledge and understanding!
b
Complain about this comment
155, David.
I would disagree with your teacher. Although surely a change in tone, or subject, or approach would suggest a new paragraph, we should not discount ease in reading. I am sure you have seen a post that runs uninterrupted by any break and your eyes have bugged. It is hard to process. (You might even decide not to read it.)
Ease of reading was a prime concern with designers of type faces. That is why we have the serif.
It is the business of rules meant to be broken. For instance you have written a sentence that for some reason is hard to read. Often it just needs a comma, although there is no specific rule to cover it.
Complain about this comment
150, Ed.
Amen. I love paragraph breaks.
Complain about this comment
148, Joe sends his regards Ed. I think Joe spent most of his best years in the military where paragraph breaks were a must if you wanted anything read, considered and acted upon and one sentence paragraphs were a death sentence. I think the style is also recommended by most modern style guides for writers. James Joyce is no longer considered modern.
BTW, Medicare was passed in 1965 as someone else commented. Joe has a piece that admits he may not have all the exact facts straight as he has been writing in haste from memory and that he may well be attacked by those who dodge the issues by attacking the messengers. Such is the state of the world. We entertain ourselves with delusions of our own brilliance while ignoring the fact a pyre has been lit at our feet.
However, this is the third such cycle Joe has seen and his memory is probably better than most text books, or at least those who try to teach from them. Age does have its rewards. One is knowing that at some point the cycle ends.
JAK, Salaam, Regards, etc.
chitlins
Complain about this comment
#159. allmymarbles: "Ease of reading was a prime concern with designers of type faces. That is why we have the serif."
Surely you mean the sans-serif - without any decoration - as this blog is presented. I disagree with you both about paragraph breaks - a new paragraph is usually shown by an indentation on the following line, not by a space of one or more lines. I have seen both - the space/s plus the indented line. Overkill I think! Similarly, fourteen paragraphs, as in #134, is rather too much of a good thing.
I could have put a break between the first and second sentences of the above paragraph, but I trust that you and Ed are capable of reading it without a problem. I suppose the size of one's computer monitor must make a difference; I use a rather large iMac, but for those using something smaller I recognize that consequently the text may be harder to read. I have no idea what this looks like on another screen or with another browser.
Despite the foregoing (new subject!) we are on the same page with regard to the election and I feel sure you will both have an opinion about tonight's 'debate'. I look forward to reading them on another thread.
Complain about this comment
#142
Candy,
Fridays are for firearms. No running today, the only day I skip.
=) But thanks, today was better than yesterday.
Relaxed Sam
Complain about this comment
Is there a real difference between the notion of exceptionalism and the notion of Uebermensch? (I am not German.)
Complain about this comment
What I saw was Bush and Paulson needed McCain's base to support the bill. I heard on the radio Paulson called Graham, a friend of McCain, and asked Graham to speak to McCain about supporting the Paulson Plan. As you know, McCain did not. But, he didn't run away from dealing with the problem, either. He's a senator. He has responsibility to his constituents from his home state.
Q: How [Gingrich] can oppose the deal but approve of McCain's effort to get it passed is beyond me, though.
A: Gingrich opposed the two-page Paulson Plan. Republicans had a rare opportunity to add their ideas to a house bill. Gingrich was hoping one or two of those ideas would accidentally stick to the bill. It's going to pass with or without. As you know, Dems in the house are the majority. Gingrich may oppose the final draft. He'll give us his opinion, no doubt. We're lucky to have him.
What is beyond me is why Democrats (Barney Frank, Dodd, Pelosi, Reid, and other names who worked on the bail-out bill) resisted the warnings of a housing meltdown from McCain and certain other Republicans earlier this decade. McCain said in 2002 (see Congressional record) "If congress does not act [on Freddie and Fannie], the American taxpayer will continue to be exposed to enormous risks..." Dems circled the wagons around Freddie and Fannie. Obama is the number two recipient of campaign contributions from them. Dodd is number one.
Eventually, transparency catches up because this is NOT Cuba.
Your comments about American exceptionalism are insulting, as you intended. But, you say more about yourself than us.
You mention your form of government moves too quickly. People here do complain sometimes about how slow Congress, and every other level of government, moves. I've heard it from time to time all my life.
One side desperately wants speed bumps in the neighborhood because they have small children, and the other side opposes them because it would hinder ambulances on their way to the elderly. As you say, change is slow. It is also confrontational. But, it's messy for good reason and was purposely structured that way. Three years later, the neighborhood has a new stop sign, more speeding tickets, and a new park for the kids. You might even say, we are exceptionally messy.
Nope, self-government is not a burden, it is a personal responsibility no different from paying your bills on time.
Complain about this comment
It is true, that Americans are usually taking serious.
Complain about this comment
View these comments in RSS