The weapon of choice
I cannot get excited about the Rev Jesse Jackson - he belongs to another era. Though I agree that if his remarks have any lasting effect it will be a positive one for Obama.
More importantly, on the subject of cars and fuel costs (see recent posts), an American correspondent writes to inform me that more crimes of passion are committed in the US using the motor car as the weapon of choice than are committed with guns! Could this be true? If it is we have stumbled on yet another aspect of the culture of the nation that will be affected by the gas price hikes.
Meanwhile, as I carry on with my short break in the UK, again and again I meet people who are less hostile to the US than might have been the case even months ago.
Writing a book about the place (BBC-sanctioned!) - not a hagiography but a book that suggests that an affection for America is not necessarily a bad thing to have - is now a project seen as only faintly eccentric, indeed close to being acceptable in polite society.
I fear no blogging now for a week or so. I am going to the Isle of Wight where it is not done...
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"Meanwhile, as I carry on with my short break in the UK,again and again I meet people who are less hostile to the US than might have been the case even months ago." Justin I'd suggest that rumours of anti-americanism have been greatly exaggerated. Of course there will always be some who are "anti-american" regardless of the circumstances (just as there are "anti-european" voices in the US) but most people are probably ambivalent. There is a world of difference between critisising government policy and being "anti" a country. Many in the UK will oppose the new 42 detention limit but not consider themselves unpatriotic to do so. Plenty of people in the UK will critise the actions of the French govt but they will still be happy to uncork a bottle of bordeaux or rent a gite for their hols. Similarly they will consider Iraq to have been a mistake (a view shared by many americans themselves) but still tune in to desperate housewives. I think the recent election coverage has shown american engaing in their political process in a positive way and for those who bother with events in the US (and many don't - it is possible to exagerate the importance of the US as a direct influence) it has reminded them of the good qualities of the US.
(Have I made it to first post?)
You're all doing very well !!
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PS - Justin, Enjoy your holiday. Hope IoW stays dry.
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Crikey ! The Isle of Wight ? That's the sort of place my parents go on holiday - but I guess anywhere else you go you might be mobbed by screaming girls, and assaulted by autograph hunters - or maybe not.
But have a fab time - a holiday is a state of mind, rather than a place, so make sure you get some good 'Rest and Relaxation'.
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I agree that anti-americanism is much overstated. For a country thats supposedly the most hated in the world, the persistent daily lines of people queueing up for visas outside the London Embassy gives testament to the fact that a lot more people want to go there than don't.
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Justin: I had wondered where you wandered off to, glad to rea you're getting to visit your home, maybe we'll read how it's changed and how it remains the same.
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Hi Justin
I tend to agree with the majority of the posts so far. I have a great respect for America. I don't agree with everything within and from the U.S. but who does? I doubt any one person here in the UK would agree with everything any government in power espouses, but BOTH countries have a clear intent for democracy, (with all it's shades of grey), peace and liberty.
I think if anything news agencies (anywhere) propagate negative tones towards the U.S. to grab the headlines.
Long live 'positive' journalism.
Lastly, enjoy your hols.
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I would suggets that any society which regards your book project as unacceptable does not deserve the epithet 'polite'.
On the other hand, I hope that writing a book of any kind whatever continues to be regarded as eccentric. Nobody should ever imagine that anything they have to say is worth other people spending money on.
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This whole "anti-American" thing is just massively overused. Anytime a non-American complains about a US policy, their govt starts crying "anti-Americanism" as if it's on a par with anti-semitism.
It's just a handy jingoism like "they hate us for our freedoms" to try and get the public onside.
As a govt, there is still plenty to dislike, but that's the same with any empire - just ask Asia how they felt about Britain's dabblings in world conquest.
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Why anyone with a vague knowledge of US foreign and domestic economic over the last 50 years would have anything positive to say about the US is beyond me.
What happens there, happens here.
Does that mean we take their lead? wiretapping and corporate protectionism? Subcontracted defense industry? Gated communities?
The American people are mainly very good, friendly people. Their leaders are not.
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The mind boggling banality of the concept could indeed be perceived as something of an eccentricity. However, I suspect it may well fall curse to the delights of wilful interpretation.
Even so I am perfectly sure you have nothing to fear and that your dear little book shall be more than acceptable in polite society. I would go as far as to say that it would undoubtedly be warmly received.
Indeed I am sure Aunty will treat us to a three part documentary on the matter and who knows... Andrew Neil might even call and ask you to do a little piece.
For you see, in polite society we have all learned to smile sweetly when presented with yet another fluffy jumper for Christmas.
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JLLondon wrote:
"Why anyone with a vague knowledge of US foreign and domestic economic over the last 50 years would have anything positive to say about the US is beyond me."
Depends whether you believe that things like the civil rights movement are a bad thing or not? Perhaps you think that eastern europe prefered being under Stalin or that the 2M Vietnamese sent to 'reducation camps' deserved it?
The US has done a lot that has been shown to be unwise, unjust or even downright criminal, however claiming that EVERYTHING done by every american in the past 50 years is wrong is just plain hysteria.
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I'm from the Isle of Wight and I blog... but it is true that I know no one else who does...
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Americans are people just like the right of us - I don't think anybody but the most extreme hate America in toto, although there are many good reasons to "hate" (ie strongly disagree with) many of the things that come out of America - such as unrestrained capitalism, grotesquely wasteful consumerism, shallow and passive entertainment culture, religious extremism, as well as, of course, American foreign policy in many cases.
I think perhaps one of the most worrying things about America is the way you guys run your political system - a democracy is not a democracy when big money can more or less buy the political agenda and decide which candidates you can choose between; and the news services are so completely twisted that people have no basis to reach an informed, political opinion from.
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Mr Webb,
I just read your blog post in relation to your new book. I will look forward to reading it and am glad a more nuanced look at the American status-quo will reach the European public.
As an American hailing from the South (Charlotte, NC), and living in Europe, I have had to put up with unreflective stereotyping on more than one occasion.
I do not mean to say that there are not Americans that validate these stereotypes, but I am consistently frustrated by the Michael Moore-style populist perspectives that are quite ignorant in their own right and occasionally even border on xenophobia.
Like you, I am fully aware of the negative sides of the waning empire. But at the same time I don?t think that uncritical-fashionable takes on American politics do anyone any good.
I will look forward to your perspective, debunking some myths and confirming others.
I am not a nationalist. I do not mind negative commentary towards the U.S. What I don?t like is half-baked ideology.
Cheers,
B. Nicholson
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Thanks for mentioning the "Americans don't have passports" thing in the article for your upcoming book. That was always a pet peeve of mine - EVERYONE would tell me that one - especially the Brits who only used theirs to get drunk and sunburnt in Ibiza. Someone should also tell them that while they get four weeks holiday Americans only get 10 days a year...
While I do agree that criticizing the US doesn't make you anti-American, repeating mindless statistics like the above (or MANY MANY others) for the sake of insulting an entire country is. We're not all the "fat gun-slinging idiots" that I hate to say even the BBC portrays us as. There are definite remnants of the old "Britain is Greece and America is Rome" comparison that has been around (and remained inaccurate) forever
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Being pro-American is good, in moderation. Our government is short-sighted but foreigners shouldn't hold that against us -- we'll try and fix that in November.
Justin, enjoy your break! As a kid I always thought "Isle of Wight" sounded like a typo but now I see it's a beautiful place. Enjoy.
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On the point about Americans going abroad, while I take the point that the US is big and they might travel a lot within, it's still one country and so hardly a trial to move around. The criticism of americans is that they don't see the world, they don't try new things, see new places, mix with new cultures or try to speak other languages. You can travel all you like within the US and get very little of any of these, but in Europe you'll have to do quite a lot of this if you go to a different country. I'd also guess that americans leaving the US would be fewer than Europeans leaving the EU, too, especially as lots of americans don't even leave their state their whole lives.
So, as far as I'm concerned, the point about americans not understanding the world by not going out and actually visiting it still stands. That they then use this ignorance to delude themselves that, for example, Iraqis will welcome them with flowers and open arms just shows the danger of such ignorance. Us Brits are not much better of course, as the British dominated spanish towns serving fish and chips and Bacardy Breezers will attest.
On the point about portraying americans as just "fat, gun-slinging idiots", does anyone seriously do this? Any time an English person appears on the Simpsons, he's a monacle-wearing, bow tie'd posh aristocrat. Are we bothered? Of course not, it's just a cliche. I don't think people think that all americans are "fat, gun-slinging idiots" any more than they think we really do all take tea with the Queen every day.
The hostility to the US in recent years has been very, very much justified. From my point of view it is partly because we know they can do so much good (far better the US as the world's only superpower than, say, Russia or China), and so when they fail so catastrophically we get angry. I suppose that's a bit harsh on americans, but if you're going to take the benefits of being the world's sole superpower, you have to take the drawbacks as well.
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When I have traveled in Europe, most people I havemet admire America.
They do not like Bush but even before 9/11 and the Iraq liberation they did not.
They are embarassed by the ignorant protesters we see on the news.
Just as the majority of American are embarassed by Cindy Sheehan, Jessie Jackson and the racists and antisemites from ANSWER
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Justin, after reading successive plugs for the new book I have finally given in and pre-ordered it from Amazon - I look forward to reading it. May I have a sweetie as a reward?
Best regards,
Felix Dare
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Vacation!!!, Did you get D_C or Jackforge, MAII or Oldsouth to fill in???
Have a great Vacation, your worhty blog will go on, you may hit a Thousand posts on this one if it's the last till you return.
It seems to me that motor vehicles as weapons is a world wide phenom.
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It is tiresome to be called anti-American when criticising a particular political faction or aspect of life in the US. However, I suspect that those who resort to the anti-American argument also regularly accuse fellow Americans of anti-Americanism. Leaving that specific group aside, I do think Americans do have a very different relationship to their political leaders to us. We are cynical and suspicious of our leaders, whilst Americans are idealistic and hold offices like The Presidency in an esteem that our PM and our hereditary Head of State could never achieve. The office of President is partisan, but he does represent the nation. When we criticise it is inevitably going to be seen partly as an attack on the American nation. Maybe, in time, Americans will become disillusioned with their political system and adopt the same cynical attitudes as us. Personally I think that their political system is just far superior to ours, and that they will retain their idealism. Oh well, at least we have the BBC, and, thankfully, not Fox News.
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To #21, Lord Sidcup. I see that the system of having a President has many advantages to ours. For example it's hard to see someone like Obama in British politics, or anyone coming in from outside the establishment. In the UK you have to be an MP (and this usually means having already being a local politician or a special adviser), then go up the ranks in your party to eventually become leader, then you have to win a general election. You'll be tested in a way that Obama won't be, but you'll be very much an insider with the required cynicism and media polish.
However there are aspects of the US system that I just laugh at. Politically based jerry-mandering, "bridge to nowhere" style bungs tacked on to random Bills, only two parties, lame duck presidencies, Congress/Senate veto deadlock if the President is of the other party, politically appointed Supreme Court Justices where it is supposed to be independent, and so on.
I can see why americans like their system, but personally prefer ours.
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Lord_Sidcup wrote:
It is tiresome to be called anti-American when criticising a particular political faction or aspect of life in the US. However, I suspect that those who resort to the anti-American argument also regularly accuse fellow Americans of anti-Americanism. Leaving that specific group aside, I do think Americans do have a very different relationship to their political leaders to us. We are cynical and suspicious of our leaders, whilst Americans are idealistic and hold offices like The Presidency in an esteem that our PM and our hereditary Head of State could never achieve. The office of President is partisan, but he does represent the nation. When we criticise it is inevitably going to be seen partly as an attack on the American nation. Maybe, in time, Americans will become disillusioned with their political system and adopt the same cynical attitudes as us. Personally I think that their political system is just far superior to ours, and that they will retain their idealism. Oh well, at least we have the BBC, and, thankfully, not Fox News.
I don't know how familiar you are with U.S history but except for George Washington, every U.S President has been subject to criticsm much of it personal attacks rather than issues.
The one thing I have noticed in Presidents since Ronald Reagan is a reflexive tendacy to bash or attack without any reason just on partsian basis. It is true for both parties.
By the way the BBC would be better and more neutral if Rupert Murdoch was running it.
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Well if the americans stay away from this present course of encouraging Israel to ww3.
then people will like them more.
I think they will.
Have a good time on the isle.
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Maybe the change in attitude is because we know its Obama or at worst, and worst is not that bad, McCain next.
Now I am not trying to implicate you in cross politics blogs but....
On Mark Urbans blog a poster timelythoughts posted some stuff on Litvinenko. It looks sound to me though I am an amateur.
It sounds as though the US intelligence community has access to the same facts as us and has reached different conclusions. Thats not getting reported over here in the UK.
Given the escalating spat between the UK and Russia it would be a tad awkward if they turned out to be right and we turned out to be wrong.
I don't expect the Beeb "to crack the case" but I would expect that if there were major doubts about our position from a close ally we should know.
But then so much stuff gets pulled. The background to the Mosely sting, Christopher Bowen disappeared off the web page etc etc.
I don't trust Bush or Cheney but I can't see they would let any minor oil deals or similar affect the relationship with the UK.
The US intelligence community believes their case apparently.
There must be muscle in the US that wants to see this issue resolved appropriately.....
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Re: # 17 stephen_h222
Okay, about the travel thing: People in Britain have to remember that Americans have to travel a LOT farther than they do to reach the European continent. It would require a full day for me to get from Ohio to Britain (and another couple of days to get my luggage from Heathrow). And it is a LOT more expensive for us to get to Europe. Two airline tickets to Europe would cost about a month's pay for me. Two budget airline tickets from London to Spain would cost me a couple of days pay. That makes a difference when Americans plan their vacations. And others have already pointed out the small amount of vacation time Americans get compared to most Europeans.
About mixing with other cultures, speaking other languages, etc.: You've obviously never been to Texas.
Seriously, though, there is more diversity on the North American continent that you give it credit for. There is a tremendous amount of diversity even within the US. It is quite possible for one American to have difficulty in understanding another American from a different part of the country. And Americans do try to vacation in places that are different from their home cities--within the limits of their finances and vacation time. If I go to the Shakespeare festival in Stratford, Ontario I am quite definitely in another country with its own laws and customs. If I go to Mexico, that's definitely another country with another language.
What really frosts the shorts of European and British intellectuals is that most Americans don't consider it important to visit THEM. But the same people who complain that Americans never get out of the house are probably also the ones who complain about the numbers of Americans who clog up their country in the summertime.
And how many of the Brits who vacation in Europe are speaking the local language to the waiters and hotel staff? I've seen more than one British tourist loudly speaking English to some unfortunate person behind a counter, with the apparent thought that if he only spoke loud enough the message would get through. Not all travel within the EU opens up personal horizons. You have to be willing for those horizons to open up in the first place.
So people in Europe and Britain shouldn't be too smug about Americans and their lack of travel experience.
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Having been driving in the US for several weeks now, I realised that although the cost of petrol is still only about half what it is in the UK, the poor fuel economy of the car (a proper car, not an SUV or truck) means that it's effectively costing me the same per mile. I'm getting 26 miles per Imperial gallon, whereas in the UK I'd expect it to be closer to 40mpg for a car that size. The US could do a lot towards improving their transport costs by being less wasteful.
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The IOW is on the Bush-Cheney axis of evil list - expect some tough q's-maybe even a cavity search- on your return to the US.
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#27: can you tell us how much pollution and damage to the environment you have caused, please, while having no doubt the time of your life?
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To #26, timohio.
I accept all your points, to an extent. It would probably need us to have lots of facts and figures on international travel to compare, but Americans I've talked to admit that they don't travel much in general. Apparently Californians are notorious for not leaving California.
There is of course some diversity within america, but compared to the differences between us and the Polish, say, I really think it is very small. And while language might, very rarely, be an issue in the US, it always is in Europe. Anyway, I'm also saying that Europeans travel beyond Europe a lot more than Americans do beyond America (which is a similar size). Can't prove it, but anecdotally it really seems to be true.
As for being annoyed that Americans don't visit us, I'm actually annoyed at the opposite. Britain is about the least foreign place to an American as you can get - foreign enough to be interesting, not so foreign as to make it difficult. To me this just shows what I'm talking about, that if Americans do go anywhere it will be to cute little Britain, with their funny accents and soldiers with big hats. Nothing too taxing, nothing too foreign, then go home and say you've been "abroad".
And yes us Brits are also bad at all this. We do travel, but expect everyone else to speak English. I don't think we're as bad as Americans, but most of Europe is a lot better than us, so the difference needs to be highlighted.
So we're bad, America is worse. And all this seems to come from the weird American belief that they are the "best" in the world because of some sort of inate american-ness. I've lost count of the number of times I've heard "America is the greatest nation on earth" on US TV. Sorry America, but you're the world's only superpower because your 300million rich people mean you have by far the biggest army and economy. That's it. Not because of "spirit" or somesuch rubbish, just very practical reasons.
The difference for me between patriotism and nationalism is that a patriot loves his country but not to the detriment of his appreciation of other countries. He can love his country but truly appreciate how amazing other countries are. A nationalist loves his country and actually thinks this is because it is the best country, and the others are rubbish. Hence all that idiocy about "punishing" france for opposing the war, "Cheese-eating surrender monkeys" etc. Just look back on YouTube when all that stuff was happening and you'll cringe.
The problem with not going to other countires is that you don't see how great they are, and so you just watch Fox news, believe the hype and become that nationalist. This is why it is so dangerous.
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Re: #27 StormWarden
You are certainly correct about the fuel economy of American autos. Most Americans who are concerned about fuel economy drive Japanese or German cars. The Honda I drive gets 38 miles per gallon on the highway. I can fill up the tank without taking out a loan and easily drive to my vacation on a single tank.
This is why the American auto industry is in trouble. American auto executives have been telling one another for decades that Americans will never give up big cars. And there has been a deliberate policy of designing small cars to feel cheap so buyers will gradually migrate to the larger and more expensive cars with larger profit margins.
Unfortunately the ones who will pay the price for that lack of foresight will be the workers and not the executives.
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Sorry guys but timohio and louvain27 have good points.....I've lived in London for nearly 15 years and I'd be rich enough to stay here if I had a dollar for every time I've heard a) the no passport thing or b) the World Series thing (I'm sure there are more, but I'm too thick to think of them right now). I reckon I hear 'Not You of Course' comments a few times a day, every day ('God those Americans are so thick! Not you of course'). So good luck with the book Justin, I'd love to see it work. And mediamoho wins the prize for comment 28 which is, hand on heart, completely true.
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#23 Magic
. . .the BBC would be better and more neutral if Rupert Murcoch was running it.
Ooooh, you really know how to hurt a broadcaster, don't you?
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Must you plug your book? It cheapens an otherwise interesting entry.
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Timohio - Well said!
Everyone, please consult a map to see how far away America is from Europe. Then, it will be obviouse to see how much more expensive it is for Americans to travel, for example, to Europe than for Europeans to travel within the EU.
Japla - not all of American consumerism is wasteful, not all of our entertainment is shallow, and not all of our religion is extreme. There is much, much good about our society, but many people would rather die that see that. I think this has more to do with people's insecurities than it does with America.
Stephen_h222 - you are ignorant about Americans.
To all who read this blog, please educate yourself about Americans, and no, basing your views on American entertainment is not educating yourself. Actually come here and meet Americans.
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To #35 KathyinTN.
I have two uncles in the US, my girlfriend is american and i've visited about 15 times. Encyclopedic knowledge perhaps not, but enough to comment. Any specific points on why you think I'm wrong?
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Oh yes, and as for it being harder geographically for americans to get to other countries, fair point. But that's an argument for it not being americans' fault that they don't know much about the world, not an argument for it being untrue...
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Well, well, well, we have some bloggers saying NICE things about America! I like tvw211's no. 4 blog about the persistent lines of people outside the American Embassy in London who want visas to enter this "universally hated country".
As for visitors from Europe, guess what language is most prevalent at Disneyworld and the other attractions in Orlando - it's English spoken with all the regional accents of Great Britain!
Americans as a rule are really nice people - my English accent over the past 50 years has been the "open sesame" to great friendships and good conversations with complete strangers.
And as for Stephen's No. 30 blog about our 300 million "rich" people I never heard such hogwash in my life. Just like every country on this planet we too have our poor and like every other country not doing a very good job of taking care of them. Some people in America even go hungry. Bite your tongue, Stephen!
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People need to remember that theirs a big difference between anti-Americanism and anti-Bushism.
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Justin, you are due for a well-deserved rest.
This Isle or Wight thing sounds just like Catalina
Island off the California coast.
As for those people who are ambivalent about
our odd corner of the world, I would recall
a bumper sticker that was popular here in
the 70's which read:
"I love my country, but I fear my government."
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"Meanwhile, as I carry on with my short break in the UK, again and again I meet people who are less hostile to the US than might have been the case even months ago."
What you really mean is hostile to the US government of course, not hostile to the country and everyone who lives in it. People are hostile to the actions of the US government and for good reason. Many people would like to confuse such hostility with a general hatred of anything American in an attempt to discredit opposition to US foreign policy. Such people tend to used the word anti-American a great deal.
Anti-American is a truly terrible word because it conjures up the notion that people hate US culture and perhaps even think Americans are loud or annoying etc. The truth is that people are hostile to the US government, not the people or the culture. We clearly love US culture (just look at the popularity of US products, TV and movies) and on visiting New York, I've never met friendlier people.
"Writing a book about the place (BBC-sanctioned!) - not a hagiography but a book that suggests that an affection for America is not necessarily a bad thing to have - is now a project seen as only faintly eccentric, indeed close to being acceptable in polite society."
The link about your book says...
"It is intended as an anecdotal counter-blast to what he believes is a knee-jerk anti-Americanism that is pervasive throughout Europe."
I see. So that wonderful term "ant-Americanism" comes up again. I suppose that a hundred years back when people were complaining that the British were letting Boers die in concentration camps, they were being anti-British, right?
A while back you wrote a series of articles on anti-Americanism and one of the stops was in Venezuela. The article was titled "Anti-Americanism in Venezuela" http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6572615.stm
In the article you said..."You've got to wonder if there is any end to the capacity of the rest of the world to blame the United States for its problems."
Yes, why on Earth would Venezuelans or even Hugo Chavez himself be angry with the US? How about the failed coup attempt in 2002 which claimed the lives of a number of Venezuelans and seemed to have US backing.
All your suggestions for why people are anti-US Government seem to completely avoid any US misdeeds (or perceived misdeeds) in the region. Why is that?
The closest you get is saying "their neighbour to the north has behaved badly in the past". But what does that mean? Some bad and exploitative financial deals? What exactly?
US funding of the murderous Contras must have angered many people in the region just as the US mining of Nicaraguan harbours must have caused more anger. Surely US involvement in the Chilean coup and subsequent backing for Pinochet must have caused anger. Surely the US instigated coup against the democratic government of Guatemala must have caused anger. Surely US support for the Argentinean military Junta must have caused anger (the US knew about the coup well in advance but kept quiet).
All these things (and they only scratch the surface) must have greatly angered people in the region since so many died as a result. Yet you mention none of these acts, not even the Venezuelan coup attempt itself, despite actually being in Venezuela. The mind boggles.
You say:
"One of the great features of the anti-American mindset is the blotting out of the positive and the accentuating of the negative."
Would that be similar to blotting out the short list of US misdeeds I mentioned above?
It's generally considered more important to write about things that kill people and wreck nations rather than write about how great US movies are. News tends to be about the negative in case you hadn?t noticed.
I personally love American culture and I've found the people to be very friendly. The US has made many positive impacts in the world in science, the arts etc. However, this does not blind me to the terrible acts the US government has perpetrated around the world. Acts which are very well documented, in many cases by declassified US documents. There is really no excuse to ignore these acts, especially if you are actually writing an article on "anti-Americanism".
Where are all the BBC journalists who hold the opposite view to you? Where are the BBC journalists writing a series of articles on all the bloody US interventions around the world? The BBC would probably judge such articles as ?anti-American? and would not publish them, unlike ?pro-American? articles, which are seemingly ok. There are of course a number of journalists writing about US misdeeds. However, such journalists, e.g. John Pilger, are of course mostly excluded from the mainstream media.
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thanks for the support - the travel insult IS annoying.
if you get all your information on what americans think of britain from the simpsons then yes, we are idiots. when you talk to an actual american you'll find that they often have a real curiosity about the rest of the world and will often be apologetic for the fact that a) they are american, and b) that they are not as well-travelled and experienced in the outside world as others are. the thing that riles americans about anti-americanism is that brits and europeans have a way of coming across as thinking they know everything about americans and don't want to hear anything that doesn't fit the stereotype.
the best example of this is when people you meet for the first time will actually stop after a joke and compliment you on the fact that you laughed - that you're sophisticated enough to get the british sense of humour. i've been told more than once that i'm quite good at understanding sarcasm considering i'm only an american.
you can insult our idiot president and destructive foreign policy all you want and we certainly deserve that, it's these little things that really make americans feel like the world is against us (at least the ones living abroad!)
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to: stephen_h222
I have no idea whether Californians travel less than other Americans. As far as Californians traveling to Europe: they have to travel twice as far as I would, and probably pay twice as much in air fare. It's a long, long ways from Los Angeles to London. Perhaps they go to Asian countries more than to Europe.
I actually agree with you that Americans should travel more and make contact with ordinary people in the countries they visit rather than sitting in tour buses. Personally, one of the most valuable experiences of my life was living in an ordinary neighborhood in Rome for six months while I did dissertation research. I've been lucky enough to travel quite a bit to Europe and the Middle East. I just understand why other Americans don't make it a priority.
Part of my argument is that Americans don't travel outside the US largely because most of them can't afford to. Well-educated affluent Americans usually manage some foreign travel. American colleges and universities generally encourage their students to spend a semester abroad (which I realize is not quite the same as foreign travel since they are mostly in American study-abroad programs, but it's better than nothing). American businesses are increasingly aware of the need for their managerial employees to be comfortable working in other countries and with people from other cultures.
Oh, and it's not just American and British tourists who act badly. The Germans, the French, etc. all have their own issues when outside their home countries. I've seen things that have made me cringe and my son has told me about other things that have made him cringe. So it's not just the US and Britain.
That "greatest nation on earth" stuff is largely political rhetoric. I've never heard an ordinary American say anything like that. Pride in the country is usually expressed more quietly. I suspect that politicians in other countries say similar things.
By the way, have you visited the US? If you feel we should be willing to visit Europe, you should be equally willing to visit us.
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All this about distances Americans have to travel to leave their country and how much it costs:
Yup, we know. Many of the Brits who post on the web have travelled not only to Europe but also to the US. The backpacker routes all round the world are just as full of Americans as they are of Europeans, so there must be many adventurous souls out there, let alone those who've lived and worked internationally. Backpackers as a tribe are more inclined to be tolerant anyway.
Europeans also take holidays in the US and Canada and Mexico, not to mention Australia and Asia. It's possible we get better deals on airfares, but many of us aren't particularly well off.
We just like travelling (especially, in my case, to where it's sunny and warm).
It's high summer here, and it's cold, wet and rainy. If I lived in California, Arizona, or even Oregon, I probably wouldn't bother travelling to Europe either.
(sigh)
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oops, I didn't mean to be insulting to Oregon, I just meant I loved it there
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What does all of this have to do with the use of an automobile as a weapon? I have heard of persons trying to run over errant spouses with the family car but most don't succeed.
Justin Webb,I really would check up on the facts here. I think you are being 'HAD!'
I think, it was suggested in a prior blog, you should promote your book as shamelessly as possible. It is the American Way! I, too, will pre-order. I think it will be fun. I enjoy your blogs.
As to the usual critics of American travelers we go where we go. What else can be said? In the US, there are probably more languages being spoken than in any other country in the world. Recently, I read that there are 52 different languages being spoken in my state alone. One does not have to travel to Texas, after all.
To all of you British who travel to Spain: I love it there too! Beautiful country! It gives me a chance to practice my Spanish. (admittedly, considered low-class Mexican border Spanish in Spain) However, we do understand each other and most people are quite kind in correcting my pronunciation, usage and/or grammar.
I have been many places outside the US but never to England. I would love to see London and so many other parts of your beautiful country. It just hasn't worked out for me to visit there.
The Isle of Wright sounds wonderful! I wish I could also visit there. Justin Webb, do enjoy your vacation and 'Have a nice day!'
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Timohio is so right. The United States is agrat place for holiday. providing one speaks Enlish and even better if you live in Euroland as I do here in Spain. Working beckwards, my daughter and family skiied in Aspen in 2007 and holidayed in Florida in 2006, an I and my wife visited L.A. and Las Vagas in February 2006. We have a beautiful certificate from the State of Navada with our names on it as a fond momento of the visit.
I was brought up near London in Wartime Britain, I KNOW how much we owed America. In 1944 shortly after D-day my friends and I watch a convoy of American tranks driving on their way to the docks and to France. It went on for more than 24 hours. I remenber thinking "nobody can stop us now". Marshall Aid, which cost the American tax-payer an absolute mint, set Western Europe, including both Britain and Spain on the road to recovery and eventually unity. Of course my generation are more than friendly toward the United States, but their is a but and a big one.
I am 73 and my generation is passing. Europe has changed almost beyond recognition but the wounds of the World Wars on local Wars, such as the Spanish Civil War are still not healed. This is behind Russia reaction to the so called Missile Shied. Russia lost 20 and possibly even 25 million people. In the last three months I have visited the Anne Frank Museum in Amsterdam and Berlin for the first time. Berlin is extrodinary ordinary. 75% of the city was distroyed by the end of the War followed by partition until 1989. Today it as if it had never been. Europe is more and more becoming one as the United States is one. And immitation is the sinceress form of flatary as it is said.
Now for the downside. Sock and Awe as formulated by Dick Chaey and friends is seen as illegal, immoral an inaffective by me and most of those I know. The Spanish Government support of the invasion was almost universally opposed here in Spain and cost his party the General Election. We look for better things from the next Administration.
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I see now in post 36 that stephen_h222 has visited the US quite a bit. I do apologize for my question in post 43.
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#40Gunsandreligion
I loved that bumper sticker! A healthy paranoia is a good survival skill. Sometimes they really ARE out to get you!
'The price of liberty IS eternal vigilance.'
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re: #40 gunsandreligion
"I love my country, but I fear my government."
70's ?!?!?!?
I think it is a widely-held point of view even today. I expect that many don't display such sentiment openly _because_ of their fear, e.g. "You're either with us or against us." Nixon was a saint in comparison.
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#46argylljenny
I love the sun but we are scorching here. Our monsoon season is just starting. I wish I could bottle some of our sunshine and you could do the same with your clouds and rain. We could have an exchange. I love my desert. Nearly nine months of the year, I consider it as close to heaven as I can get here on earth.But there are three months each year that give me a close encounter with the nether regions. (I'm not sure if the PTB's will let me use the 'H' word.)
Come visit and welcome to you! Do it in the winter, spring or fall. Yes, we do have seasons!
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"bash me later" , I don't have time for it right now.
I am born and raised American. I grew up in a world of "plenty" and for many years, never understood the cost.
Though some of the habits persist, the "America" I grew up in no longer exists.
We are adjusting to a new reality - as several of the developing nations strive for the lifestyle America previously had.
"Automobile - the weapon of choice?"
Destroy the world:
World - 1
American - 80,000,000 automobiles
Drunk:
"Darn right I'm driving! I'm in no condition to walk!"
Jilted Indian groom (immigrant) of an arranged marriage:
"If she won't marry me, then I'll kill the whole family - I-96, 1998, Minivan crossed into oncoming traffic - head-on into a semi"
Cell Phone User:
" - {bump - bump} - "
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Ref #50
I have never felt threatened by my government, my only fear is their ineptitude.
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I just have to respond to stephen_h222. This person is the stereotype of the snotty european who gives his fellow europeans a bad rap. His ignorance about America shows through and through. I don't know whether he's ever been to the US or not but he needs a bit of an education. "Lots of Americans don't even leave their state their whole lives." I've read this before from brits who blog. Very few americans have never left their state. Americans travel quite abit around the country. Furthermore many americans end up living in more than one state, even several states during their lives. Colorado is the 4th state I've lived in, besides having lived overseas. And Stephen, I think alot more americans travel abroad than you think. Myself, I grew up 8 years of my life in Brazil. There were always many Americans living and visiting there. As an adult I lived 2 years in Pakistan. Same thing, there were many other Americans living and visiting there. In Brazil, I spoke Portuguese, in Pakistan I learned the Pashto language. I also visited Afghanistan. (And no, I wasn't a soldier but a civilian.) I've visited good friends who live in Holland. Of course, I know that many Americans haven't seen as much of the world as I have. But everywhere you go around the world you're going to find plenty of Americans living and visiting abroad. And from what I saw, Americans abroad are very good about experiencing the cultures that they were among. Also, with all the immigration to America today Americans are rubbing shoulders with other cultures more than ever before. Even in many remote places and smaller towns. Believe me, I travel the country extensively with my job and I see it. As far as food, there is almost every kind of ethnic food in America today. When Americans go out to eat they have a smorgasborg of choices from food around the world. Also, ethnic festivals and holidays from around the world are becoming more and more common. As far as not many Americans learning other languages, that's true, but let's face it, English is very much a world language and I think that has contributed to the ease in which English-speaking people can travel the world and more or less get by without knowing another language. How many Brits are fluent in other languages? And one last thing, for those of you complaining about Fox News. I'm glad that here in America we have a multitude of news sources. There's no monopoly of thinking in journalism here. At least not as much. You're just upset cause there's a news channel now that gives voice to different views that challenge the way you've always thought about things. I'm glad that I can watch Fox News, CNN, CNBC, ABC, CBS, NBC, or listen to NPR (liberal) or Rush Limbaugh (conservative) or look up the the good 'ol BBC News website and see what the Brits are reporting and saying about things.
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If the automobile is more often the weapon of choice, it is only because almost everyone has one, which is not true of guns, despite our reputation.
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That book has already been written, by Alistair Cooke.
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tvw211 (#4), Europeans (does that term include Britain?) are queueing up for U.S. visas merely because of the unusually weak dollar, as I understand.
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I have many friends and relatives living in Spain, Venezuela, England, Sweden and other countries. The feedback I get from them is that they like Americans, our way of life, and the opportunities our country has to offer. What they deplore and find objectionable are the policies and actions of our government and corporations, which most consider arrogant, ruthless, insensitive, and intolerant of other cultures.
Regarding Jesse Jackson - He represents the past and is no longer relevant. His comments reduce his stature even further than it already was, and help Obama distance himself from the extreme left wing of his party, without losing their votes. Jackson's focus on government handouts and special privileges to minorities does not resonate among members of new generations of Americans who have grown in a climate of equal opportunity and, as such, are completely focused on self-reliance rather than government handouts.
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#58Dominickvila
I think that most Americans also consider the policies and actions of our government and corporations to be: "arrogant, ruthless, insensitive and intolerant of other cultures."
Maybe we are more on the 'same page' with the rest of the world then many believe us to be. Perhaps we should live up to are supposed 'loud and brash' reputation by speaking up more against these policies and actions.
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Garyahill
Completely off the current subject, but thanks for that reference to information re: Trojan Nuclear Power Plant you put in a previous post.
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re: #41 StevenJMUK
Very good post.
There are two problems, though. First, it is my observation that many who are critical of US gov't actions are not careful to differentiate between "the US gov't" and "the US", and, secondly, many, if not most, Americans are either not aware of the incidents you cite, or have a different view of them.
Our press and our government consistently paint a picture of our foreign involvements as being just, altruistic, and/or necessary to defend freedom. Only through research and/or reading foreign accounts of our actions can a more objective viewpoint be attained - most Americans are inclined to accept what they are told by our press and government rather than to expend any effort to ferret out additional information.
When these government actions are criticized, the criticism is often seen as unfair "US bashing", in general, and many are likely to feel defensive; this defensiveness is often perceived by the critics as a defense of US government actions. Thus, a positive feedback loop exacerbates the perceptions of antagonism on both sides.
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Your viewpoints and comments in the USA have been entertaining and enlightening, despite some minor non consensus on issues. Looking forward to your book , which will make up for your absence on the BBC American pages.
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#51 aquarizonagal
Thanks for the offer - and just when I was reconciling myself to being green and spending holidays at home! (or at least, not travelling so far).
Your crops are probably frazzling and ours are drowning, so not exactly a happy medium, it's true.
Holidays are going to be more expensive so most of us will have to ration ourselves anyway; as you've already said, even visits to family will be affected.
Cleaner power:
Scotland is still constructing the latest hydro-electric generator - tunnelling above Loch Ness, no less. Not an option everywhere, and it's said to be the last unexploited suitable site here. Expensive to set up, but so are they all.
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Note to Argylljenny:
Come bring your backpack and tent. All are welcome to hike and camp my land as long as they walk 'gently' and treat the land with respect, which most seem to do.
I agree that most backpackers are a special breed of traveler.
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aquarizonagal wrote:
#58Dominickvila
I think that most Americans also consider the policies and actions of our government and corporations to be: "arrogant, ruthless, insensitive and intolerant of other cultures."
Maybe we are more on the 'same page' with the rest of the world then many believe us to be. Perhaps we should live up to are supposed 'loud and brash' reputation by speaking up more against these policies and actions.
Bush yes but don't exempt the do nothing partisian congress.
I think corporations are held in higher esteem than the govt or labor unions or hate mongering networks like MSNBC
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more crimes of passion are committed in the US using the motor car as the weapon of choice than are committed with guns! Could this be true?
Why not?
- Even in the tolerant parts of the US (ie the ones with gun laws unlike Washington DC) a car is more likely to be available than a gun
- People know how to use cars, killing someone with a gun is harder than most people imagine - it's not like on the movies where you just point and pull the trigger
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#66, alexswanson:
Depressingly, the increasing cost of gasoline
is making it increasingly unattractive to use
motor cars in crimes of passion.
I must also differ with you on one significant
point - your statement that "People know
how to use cars" is not universally true
in the US.
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#51 aquarizonagal
Thanks for the offer - and just when I was getting reconciled to holidays at home (or at least not so far away). All our holidays are getting a lot more expensive - there have been repeated stories about cruises, flights and bus tours charging extra because of the fuel price hike.
Yes, it would be nice to have a happy medium climate, but meantime your crops frazzle, ours drown.
Meanwhile in Scotland:
It won't be on line for a while, but the new hydro-electric power station planned above Loch Ness is coming on. I was hoping there might be more, but apparently this is the last major suitable site for this kind of development.
I know Canada uses a lot of HE too, but is much of US power is generated this way? (yes, I do understand about geographical limitations).
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#61Peterm99
You are so right. I think that we Americans can be so thin skinned when it comes to outside criticism of our government even though we can be extremely acidic in our own criticism. We need to separate what is just criticism of our government by others from, what we have perceived to be personal criticism of us as a people.
I think that we are so bound up in our government's reputation because, rightly or wrongly, we individually cling to the idea that our vote counts, that what we think counts with our governing bodies. We take it very personally when we feel that those we have elected have failed us. I think that we should continue to hold this idea because that is one thing that keeps us going as an independent country.
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What's a "crime of passion", pray? Rape? Prostitution? Suicide? Homicide? Contributing to global warming? Habitat destruction? Blood for oil? Yeah, wouldn't doubt there are more such crimes carried out in, and in-the- name- of, the destructive car culture of America. We'll all be most anxious to see the proof of any inverse relationship between rising gas prices and falling crime rates! That would be a great contribution to criminology. In the meantime, it's unlikely there will be much change in America's criminal foreign policy. Certainly we can expect that to continue unabated regardless of which of the two Duopoly Party clone candidates is crowned potentate of the 'free world' this November. So there will still be plenty of real reasons for alleged, sinister, so-called "anti-Americanism" in much of the rest of the world. Anti-Iranianism, anti-Syrianism, anti-Palestinianism, anti-Chavezism, you name it, there'll still be plenty of antipathy in the White House and elsewhere in America too, for anyone who dares oppose American rule around the world. "Polite society" of course has always felt this way, since they share in the spoils of the whole decadent, predatory American dominated system. With the proles and "shirtless ones" around the world it's a little different story. So the reaction you get toward America, is probably more a reflection of the company you keep. It's perhaps revealing however, that a book about 'America the beautiful' should have to be based on acecdotal evidence and be published by Short Books. It's a very short case to be made, indeed!
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Enjoy the Isle of Wight, Justin.
I'm in the throes of a summer school in South Wales myself, and Sunday is going to involve a coachload of marauding teenagers in Pembroke and St David's - both stunning locations which I'd recommend for any visitor to the UK. Happy days!
I hope your weather was/is better than mine!
Ed - you doin' OK mate?
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#68Argylljenny
I am not that knowledgeable about hydro-electric power in the US. I am sure many others can give you 'chapter and verse.' But hydro-electric power allowed my parents to have electricity to their house and out buildings through a program called Rural Electric which was a co-op that people could buy shares into and each household was a co-owner.
This was still in place into the late 1980's when my father died and my mother made a choice to sell off most of our land. She was very surprised to receive a sizable check afterward for their shares in Rural Electric.
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#9 JLLondon "The American people are mainly very good, friendly people. Their leaders are not."
One could just as well say that about British leaders - Brown, Blair, Major, Thatcher and on back. None of them has a perfect record - and some more imperfect than others.
#43 timohio: "Americans don't travel outside the US largely because most of them can't afford to." That might be true with the US dollar at its low point, but surely the real reason is that there's so much to see at home? America has every bit as many attractions as other parts of the world - admittedly not all as old as in Europe, but remarkable nonetheless. It's only since travel in Europe became so cheap that Britons have gone abroad - and today, with a strong pound, the US beckons as never before. At such time as flying becomes impossibly expensive, the popularity of seaside resorts and British attractions will rise. I wonder how many of them have seen the majesty of York Minster, the remarkable Eden Project or even the Isle of Wight? As it happens, like Justin, I too shall be in England for a few days, and rather than stay in London, am visiting Bournemouth - and taking a day trip to the IoW. The cost is not much less than London, but the air will be fresher and the sands equal to anything in Southern California. The glories of Devon and Cornwall will have to be missed since my time is limited, but for those resident in the UK, there is just as much reason to 'stay home' as there is for Americans.
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re: #73 David_Cunard wrote:
"#9 JLLondon "The American people are mainly very good, friendly people. Their leaders are not."
One could just as well say that about British leaders - Brown, Blair, Major, Thatcher and on back. . ."
That is very true, yet there is a difference. I do not mean this to be disparaging to the Brits or anyone else but . . .
If a US leader is "bad", it can have a significant impact on the world. If a British leader is "bad", unless he/she acts in concert with the US, the international effects are usually minor, if not negligible. Same for the French, the Germans, etc. (Even for the Russians and Chinese (so far, at least), their "bad" influences are limited mainly to bordering areas only.)
Thus, the impact on the world (and also the _perception_ of the impact) of US leaders who are "bad" is orders of magnitude greater than for other nations. This is probably what explains why the US leadership is demonized (often deservedly so) to a much greater extent than the others.
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The streets of the USA are, in fable, paved with golden economic opportunity.
GI's giving chewing gum to kids is still the most common image.
The horror of Bush, Cheney, and the legalism of the NeoCons has been
supplanted by the promise of Obama.
Perhaps there is hope of a sunrise replacing the dark night of the NeoCons.
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As usual, PeterM has it just about right.
As to weapons of choice or carelessness, This is troubling
Salaam, etc.
ed
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#74. peterm99 - My comment was because JLLondon had written "Why anyone . . . would have anything positive to say about the US is beyond me." He or she described the entire American way of life in just the same way that A. A. Gill has in the past, writing in the Sunday Times "America has a particularly intimate relationship with proprietary processed food, and these recipes were as bizarre, touching, occasionally delicious but mostly palate-scrapingly disgusting as the States itself." From the way these people write, one would think that the UK was the centre of all that is good with the world and the US the centre of all that is bad. I doubt very much of JLLondon can even remember 1958 and the dreadful state which the UK had become in the immediate post war years. To vilify a nation which has been particularly generous to Britain, not only financially but with intelligence (The Falklands) seems like a slap in the face, or worse, for the entire American people. Granted, the USA has its faults, but so then does the UK. As the saying goes, those who live in glass houses should not throw stones.
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The USA is the bastard child of Britain in many ways - imperialistic, "white man's burden" thinking predominating within the ruling class, and a large percentage of the population that passively supports those at the top - admiring them for their luxuries and the "lifestyle." The love of world-wide conquest here in the USA certainly relates to a twisted kind of hero-worship as regards British royalty and British imperialism. Way too many USA citizens make themselves ridiculous pretending to heraldic "crests" - like McCain's pretense being descended from Scottish kind Robert the Bruce!! I laugh my behind off every time I hear UK folks working so hard to distance themselves from the USA - while their own government is hang-in-glove with USA war crimes in Iraq. Britain was doing it all long before the USA's war-mongers got in line behind them.
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For an example of Britons abroad I suggest a viewing of that classic film "Shirley Valentine", which is my favorite movie of all time. The sight of the Englishwoman sliding under the table after Shirley tells her that calamari is really squid is priceless.
And then there is Shirley, waiting table in the Greek restaurant, promising the elderly English couple a nice meal of egg and chips after they didn't fancy that "foreign stuff" on the menu.
We have watched that movie many times and it still entertains.
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Do Europeans actually think that Americans don't know or will quickly forget about all of the conflict between themselves and Europeans that had nothing to do with Iraq? Do they think Americans didn't see all of the demonstrations and hate speech Europeans directed at them? The anti-American hate in Western Europe that boiled over before the invasion of Iraq. Antipathy that was ignited by Schroeder and Chirac in 2002 during their election campaigns? It was seething anger just below the surfact that was there all along and that didn't take much kindling to set it ablaze. What were some of the issues between the US and Europe? Many had to do with trade. Trade over food like Genetically Engineered crops, American meat which Europeans said was tainted with hormones and antiboitics, trade over bananas of all things which Europeans wanted to steer towards their former colonies in preference to bananas produced by at lower cost by large American corporations in central America, trade over civilian aircraft which Americans contended was being subsidized illegally under international trade laws by EU governments, contention over global warming and Kyoto. And there were others. Europe's words of sympathy over 9-11 rang hollow when many Europeans opposed American military action in Afghanistan. Chirac and deVillepin made it clear that it was an objective of creating the EU to create a political and economic force which would "confront" America. And so they have. Iraq was the last straw. The entire world believed at the time of the invasion that Iraq had WMDs and might use them against the US. Even his own generals believed it. Europeans clearly had no concern about America's security despite the fact that America had made huge sacrifices for the better part of the 20th century to protect Europe's. Why? Because many Europeans wanted America to be attacked. That is the only possible conclusion an American can come to. France and Germany didn't merely fail to support or cooperate with the US at the UN Security Council, they actually acted against the US efforts and France was especially culpable. To say that Iraq was a mistake is not at all clear and things might have turned out very differently if the world in general and Europe in particular had been united, and had France and Germany cooperated with the US inctead of confronting it as Chirac said he would.
Europe is now in the path of a perfect storm headed straight for it. It has serious problems on so many fronts it's hard to sort them all out.
America has problems of its own but none it can't handle. It has faced far worse many times before, survived, and prospered. About the only dire problem which really threatens it is an attack by terrorists with WMDs or by a rogue state like Iran or North Korea with a WMD such as a nuclear weapon. It seems Europe still tries every way it can to thwart America's efforts to prevent this enentuality.
Europeans have done everything possible to compare their civilization with America's and have come up short. Even so the comparisons are actually very superficial. In fact the two civilizations are very far apart, very different on the most substantive issues in the way they view the world and life. And the paths continue to diverge sharply.
We'll see how Justin Webb judges what he's learned and experienced in America during his time here in his book. I still believe that almost nobody not born in America can fully understand it, what it is, how it works, and its signifigance to human civilization.
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re: Justin Webb's comment
". . . no blogging now for a week or so. I am going to the Isle of Wight where it is not done..."
I had hoped to glean some explanation for what is apparently an inside joke, but thus far have been unable to discern what it might be, even after having visited the Isle of Wight web site.
An explanation might do wonders for cross-pond understanding! ;-)
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re: #75 Xie_Ming
"The horror . . . has been supplanted by the promise of Obama."
Alas, the promise appears to have been ephemeral.
If one checks out his speech to AIPAC and subsequent remarks, it is difficult to conclude that the likelihood of further violence in Iran or Israeli-occupied (and/or -coveted) areas is any less than with Bush or McCain.
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MarcusAureliusII, this american concludes that you are way off base. I am sure that you know very well that generalizations are a foolish thing to do. And if you were with me having a drink in old street with a chinese person, a polish person, an english person and two french people, you would not be lambasting them because of their native geography. you would be having a laugh with them. Your name is borrowed from a european by the way.
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Genetics will have the final word: everybody is related to everybody - nobody's "immune" from the universal club of Human Failure. Human beings are not smart about evolution - will probably become extinct soon - sadly, having taken many other species with them into oblivion, species that are "collateral damage" in the human's race to waste and destroy as much as 'humanly possible.' Pointing fingers at others, in the words of the truism/clich, means more of your own fingers pointing back at yourself. We're all GUILTY - and as long as we continue to blame others without changing our own behavior, we're all HYPOCRITES as well.
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To Stephen_222:
Please forgive me for being offended by your sweeping generalization that every, single American (totaling over 303 million people) doesn't see the world, doesn't try new things, doesn't see new places, and doesn't mix with new cultures. Your statement is as off-base as someone saying that all British men are gay and all Brits have bad teeth. If you feel your point is valid, then please allow me to generalize that many if not most anti-American sentiments, particularly those based on stereotypes, are based not on Americans, but on individual's personal insecurities. Of course, you've visited here 15 times. I've only lived here my 42 years. Now, before you say it, yes, I've traveled all over the world. So have my parents and most of my extended family.
To everyone:
To clear up one point, whenever we in the US say that "we're number 1," it's just like cheering for the home team, like saying that New Castle United is the best. That's all.
As for panning the American government, the government is based on the American people. I support my government. The administration, though, well, that's another story. It would probably help to the specify the Bush administration since one administration can be vastly different from another. So, to be accurate, it's the Bush administration that's screwed up big time as opposed to the American government overall.
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Matthew Arnold also wrote the book ("Civilization in the United States"), and, of course, de Toqueville. Those, with Mr. Webb's, will make a nice set, written from the perspective of three different centuries.
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Justin, do you think that these little tiffs that Obama keeps having with these more "extreme" (in the minds of the general public) African-American activists will help him in winning over those Americans still wary of his race?
I reckon that if Obama is seen to be at loggerheads with those firebrands whom the caucasian public see as threatening, it might help to reassure race-conscious voters.
A more positive take on the politics-of-association, perhaps?
This is all just conjecture, of course, but if true it is almost certainly unintentional; I doubt that Obama and Mr Jackson are having a chumly giggle behind the scenes over some manner of grand deception on their behalf. But I'd wager that team-Obama is wiley enough to see the benefit of butting heads with the hardline African-American upper-crust, given that he can surely count on African-American votes come-what-may.
A way for him to say, "I may be Black, but my politics aren't."
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#80. MarcusAureliusII: "The entire world believed at the time of the invasion that Iraq had WMDs and might use them against the US."
A usual, you exaggerate or state as fact something which is incorrect. Apart from this inaccuracy, how were these weapons to be deployed over the continental United States? The "entire world" did not believe that Iraq was capable of such delivery nor did it believe that Iraq was a global threat. Your Eurobashing knows no end and you wonder why America is despised by some. It is the spewing of such bile that encourages those who would think ill of the United States; it is certainly good to know that you will probably never cross the Atlantic again to where you could utter your poisonous opinions.
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re: #80 MarcusAureliusII
If it is your intention to raise the level of foreign hostility/dislike of the US, I think you are doing a great job. Actually, I find your posts to be of great value on the BBC blog, if for no other reason than that you allow non-Americans to see that we have our share of bigoted, opinionated, narrow-minded, superficially-informed, arrogant, and churlish citizens. This helps them to understand why the more rational among us have difficulty in preventing politicians who hold views similar to yours from attaining power. In the past, I have resisted responding to your silliness, but in this case, I find that some of your points are so much more absurd than usual that they deserve comment.
Regarding your comments about anti-American hate: ". . .boiled over before the invasion of Iraq. . . Schroeder and Chiraq . . . election campaigns?" Other posters have pointed out repeatedly that it is disgust with policies of the government that prompted this behavior, not hate for Americans. Your inability to distinguish this fact is likely to be a major contributor to the contemptuousness you display to non-Americans.
Allow me to clarify the reasons behind some of the issues which you erroneously attribute to "hate" and anti-Americanism.
Genetically modified/engineered crops: The US has in many instances developed crops which cannot reproduce which they are seeking to sell abroad, thereby "locking" in foreign markets in perpetuity. Further, there have been reported disturbing manifestations associated with GM crops, notably unexplained bird and insect kills, adjacent field crop disturbance, and reports of anomalous development of animals which are fed with GM crops. In the US, government oversight of these concerns is woefully inadequate, and the companies are allowed to market these crops/seeds in spite of the lack of understanding of what is actually going on. For those GM crops which do reproduce, US law does not require the grower of GM crops to take action to prevent unwanted cross-fertilization - in fact, it allows the GM plant "owner" to seek redress against the innocent farmer in the next field. I believe a rational government would consider the interests of its population above the economic interests of their agribusiness contributors. No reasonable person can blame Europeans, who tend to be much better informed than Americans, for reacting as they do to US attempts to ram GM crops down their throats against their will.
Bananas: I see nothing wrong with European governments favoring their former colonies as a source, over American companies who established their foothold as producers via theft of land, oppression of workers, and questionable adherence to local laws, all backed up by threats of US government force.
American meat: American meat is, for the most part, produced with an inordinately large amount of hormones and antibiotics when compared to other countries whose food regulatory agencies have not been "bought" by agribusiness. As with GM foods, there remain unanswered questions about the safety of such products. The US policy tends to allow such practices until harm can be demonstrated, rather than requiring proof of safety. While proving safety is an impossibility, leaning in that direction makes more sense to most rational people.
Civilian aircraft: While EU governments do subsidize Airbus, the de facto subsidies received by Boeing, General Dynamics, Lockheed Martin, and others via their military contracts far exceed the dollar amounts of subsidy received by Airbus. The amount of subsidies the US companies receive are even greater than can be discerned via public information, as they all receive additional funds from "black" defense programs whose amounts are not known. The EU is at a disadvantage in this situation, as US law allows such chicanery to be hidden, while EU laws do not.
Kyoto, etc.: While climate change is an unarguable fact, the US government has, until very recently, disputed even its existence. While the extent of the anthropogenic cause of this change is still in dispute (extremists on both sides to the contrary), I believe the disdain of Europeans was due to the US refusal to accept the issue as worthy of discussion. I don't see the European attitudes in this regard any worse than the American ones.
Afghanistan: Given that the US had threatened a war with Afghanistan several months prior to the 911 attacks and that Bush refused the Afghan government's offer to hand over Bin Laden and his supporters _prior_ to the invasion, it was not just Europeans that were opposed to the invasion. The results of the action thus far demonstrate that the US invasion was driven more by a need to be seen to be flailing out at something rather than a coherent policy decision. History has shown that all of us who opposed that invasion , European or not, were justified in our doubts about its wisdom and efficacy.
Chirac and DeVillepin's objective of creation of a force to "confront" America: I think it's entirely justified for reasonable people to seek to establish some adult supervision when the inmates run amok. For all their faults, at least Chirac and deVillepin displayed rational pragmatism that was lacking in Washington.
Iraq: You write: "The entire world believed at the time of the invasion that Iraq had WMDs and might use them against the US." This is absolute balderdash. Anyone who bothered to critically assess information that was publicly available, anyone who reviewed the Blix and El Baradei testimony, anyone who critically assessed the pronouncements of gov't officials and their accomplices in the mainstream media could see holes in the rationale for war big enough to drive a truck through. Many Americans were unable to think critically because of the residual anger of 911; Europeans were not encumbered by emotion-induced blindness to the same extent. You also add: "Because many Europeans wanted America to be attacked." Even beyond balderdash, this crosses the line beyond Kafkaesque absurdity. A Schiller quote applies to your statement: "Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens. (Against stupidity even the gods contend in vain)"
French and German co-operation at UN: ". . . they actually acted against the US efforts and France was especially culpable." I can only repeat my previous comment about the need for adult supervision.
Terrorist/rogue state attacks: ". . . the only dire problem which really threatens it is an attack by terrorists with WMDs or by a rogue state like Iran or North Korea . . ." We let that genie out of the bottle in 1945. The only way to put it back in is to eliminate nuke weapons entirely or to wipe out everyone else in the world. The first is not feasible so long as nations or groups of people feel a need to defend themselves against amoral actors on the world stage. (Our actions worldwide tend only to increase the paranoia of others who may have legitimate reasons to oppose our attempts to impose our will on them.) The second is unpalatable to any sane person. Your stated views regarding nuking others in other posts clearly define where you stand. (Equivalent logic can be used for chemical, biological, and other types of weapons yet to be deployed.) ? Should you have rational suggestions on how such threats can be reasonably ameliorated, I'm sure people would be willing to consider them.
Civilization: You write: "Europeans have done everything possible to compare their civilization with America's and have come up short." Apparently you believe that civilization is defined in terms of military power, economic wealth, resource usage, and ability to export crappy music and fast food. Perhaps this also drives your displays of arrogance. In spite of your earlier boasts of worldliness, travel, and professional accomplishment, there appears to remain a distinct lack in your general education.
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#89. peterm99 - you have a great deal more patience than I to respond point-by-point to the fustian tirades of the poster at #80. Nice work!
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#89/90 ditto
Cut and pasting to a fine art, neh?
I believe it is down to the BSE ridden beef that he professes to eat in abundance and enjoys. Despite the fact that the US Agriculture department has no procedures in place to test cattle for BSE, as other countries do, for fear of exposing the very serious problems that exist in their farming practice!
This new strain of CJD mk 2 discovered in the US could be the start of an avalanche.
As for Justin, enjoy your time on the IoW. I currently live in Japan but the IoW is my "home town".
If you haven't been before, go visit the lovely church in Chale on the Military road, it is in the doomsday book and circa 1000, as well as some lovely 12th and 13th Century churches along the road from chale to Ventnor on the under path road. Not forgetting Carisbrook Castle, foundations laid by the Romans and finally fortified by the Normans and of course Osbourn house.
You simply must go down to Ventnor beach and go to Blake's, to get the best and freshest crab you can buy. It is the best i have ever tasted anywhere in the world. I miss it too...
Enjoy the IoW...
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peterm99
First of all, that a single anonymous poster on an internet blog site could single handedly successfully raise the level of hostility Europeans have for the US confers remarkable power on me I in all modesty cannot claim credit to. For one thing, I didn't know it was even possible for Europeans to be more hostile to the US than they already are. The remainder of you posting is strong evidence for that. What I think you object to is that this American sees through the sham, the thinly veiled tissue of lies Europe presents to the world and to itself and that holding up Europe to a mirror in a bright light reveals it for what it really is. That is where the underlying anger stems from. Were it not so, my postings would merely be ignored, overlooked as ramblings of someone uninformed not to be considered at all let alone responded to....like those of Xie Ming for example. Hearing the painful truth about itself is what really causes Europeans to boil over with rage. It explodes the myth used to justify its superiority comolex when in fact compared to American civilization it is highly inferior. Enormous economic and military power are not the cause of American superiority, it is the result. The underlying factors which make it so, Europeans never even examine let alone understand. It is a simple truth that American and European civlizations are antithetical to each other and revile each other. America was created as a kind of anti-Europe by design, having rejected the most basic assumptions which were the underpinnings of Europe's political culture at the time of the founding of the American republic.
Refuting your assertions point by point is so easy as to be hardly worth the effort.
Insofar as disgust with American policies are concerned, they are designed by a government which more truely represents the will of its people and their own interests than other governments represent theirs. Compare for instance how Europeans who are financial donor nations in the EU are rarely given a chance to vote in a public referendum if or how much of their sovereignty over themselves to cede to an outside agency they neither like nor trust but in the rare occasion they are given a vote, and they reject that ceding of their power over themselves, the first reaction is to negate their choice as in the examples of France, Holland, and Ireland. European political culture does not accept real democracy. Calling European governments democracies is a perversion of the meaning of the word.
Insofar as genetically modified crops are concerned, Europe didn't merely try to ban the crops themselves but food exported to Europe grown from those crops. This is the food we in America eat every day and anyone who comes to America also eats. We show no ill effects from them yet European farmers who cannot compete with American farmers even with their subsidies, called it Frankenfood. Not only that but when Zambia faced famine, Europe told Zambia that if it accepted gifts from the US of this Frankenfood, it could no longer export its own crops to Europe for fear of contamination. But Europe offered no alternative relief in the form of food donations to compensate for the loss of the American gifts it had put off limits.
As for meat, it's the same argument. And personally I'm glad it happened. With the mutual embargo on imported meats, Europe barred the fictitiously defective American meat while Ameicans were spared the consequences of importing the Europeans meats tainted with deadly BSE causing prions and foot and mouth disease, two disasters which forced European nations to have to destroy their entire herds of livestock. These diseases were the result of dangerous and filthy practices in Europe.
The problem wtih the bananas is that Europe giving preference to its former colonies violated WTO trade agreements. This is not surprising since Europe only trots out international laws when it suits it and then conveniently forgets about them when it doesn't. The violations and then dismissals of huge fines owed by Germany and France over the Growth and Stability pact in Maastrict which they insisted on being written into it is just one example of their hypocricy in this regard. Failure to comply with Kyoto to the point where they will miss their promised targets by over 90% is another. "Do as we say, not as we do" is Europe's motto. Actually, Kyoto had nothing to do with global warming, that was a canard. The real purpose of Kyoto was Europe's way to sabotage the US economy because it was being killed by it through direct competition. What Europe fails to admit in its attempt to make a distinction between the Bush administration and the American people is that US policy is not determined by one individual at one time. Kyoto was rejected in a Sense of the Senate vote 95-0 during the Clinton Administration, long before Bush was elected.
What about the Iraqi WMDs? It is a matter of public record that President Putin warned President Bush that Saddam Hussein's government was planning an attack on the US on American soil as reported to him by Russian intelligence agencies. And the dodgy dossier which "sexed up" the threat of Iraq was a British invention, not an American one. Tony Blair believed it, why shouldn't American intelligence have believed it also or should the US regard M5 as thoroughly incompetent, their reports to be dismissed as possible lies? There were many other pieces of evidence which fit the tapestry too and the US could hardly sit by while Happy Hans Blix and his Keystone Cops played a losing shell game of cat and mouse with Iraq's defense ministry. Iraq's response to the UN demnads was too little too late. Why should US security be held hostage to a veto by hostile forces in the UN Security Council? They won't be. That's already been demonstrated.
The only problems with America's attack on Afghanistan is that like its attack on Iraq, the US government waited much too long. It should have begun bombing the night of September 11 cutting off escape routes into Pakistan and blowing up ToraBora. It never should have outsourced its fighting to locals whose loyalties were clearly split and whose effectiveness was questionable.
The development of civilian aircraft in the US is separate and apart from the development of military aircraft. Once again as in agriculture, Europe uses this canard of subsidies to justify its government support for its industries which would fail and collapse on a level playing field. I've advocated pulling out of WTO and reverting to bi-lateral trade agreements which use Ameican economic and industrial superiority to further leverage to gain further advantages for the US. A level playing field for the sake of consistency and uniformity is not in America's interest. It should press its advantage.
The purpose of the NPT is to allow nations which want to develop nuclear energy for peaceful purposes to give those who would see a nuclear weapons program by those countries as a dire treat to their survival, to be reassured that isn't happening. The Programs in Iran and North Korea which violated the NPT they agreed to makes it inevitable that should they continue in secret, they will be attacked pre-emptively, in the case of Iran if not by the US than by Israel. Israel will have no choice. And as usual, so called international law is a farce invented by naive peple which will and should be ignored when to follow it would put a nation's survival at risk.
Somewhere above there is posting saying that Europeans do not compare the US with Rome. But if you listen to BBC's badly flawed series "America, Age of Empire" you will see that it starts out with a visit to Hadrian's wall, the limit of the ancient Roman Empire in Britain. The entire thesis of that program was the absurd notion that the US is a modern day Rome. Nothing could be further from the truth because if it were, Europe would be an American slave colony right now along with many other nations.
Europe's anger and frustration is that its chickens are all coming home to roost at once. It is in a period of accelerating terminal decline. Its contradictions and irrationalities are finally catching up with it. America, temporarily set back as it periodically is, is still in a state of explosive development. BBC's The Interview gave one rare moment of insight of European jealousy and lack of understanding of America when Owen Bennet Jones almost from his gut burst out the question "Why are they (the Americans) so rich? And the absurd and clearly incorrect answer given by Sir Christopher Meyers, former UK ambassador to the US for over five years was that "America was first." Ha, what a wrong headed idea. America was a johnny come lately. An unexplored, untamed wilderness populated by barbaric tribes when Europeans first arrived to settle 400 years ago at a time when Europe had been around for over 1000 years. Even 232 years ago when America declared its independence, it was a remote and not too wealthy backwater while Europe had vast wealthy empires which stretched around the world. The industrial revolution was invented in Britain, not America. So what is the right answer? It is that America is simply a far superior civilization which is leaving the rest of the world behind in a cloud of dust. Look for its flaws, setbacks, shortcoming, mistakes and you will find them. But on the whole, Americans learn from their mistakes while Europeans don't. The EU is the same blunder Europeans have been making since Alexander the Great tried it thousands of years ago.
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#92 MAII
as always verbose woolly and off target and off topic for the blog.
BSE is caused by abnormal prion proteins yet its conversion from a non-pathological to a pathological form and how its changes the shape of the protein are able to account for different aspects of TSE (transmissible spongiform encephalopathy) is not understood.. Whilst cattle feed with protein supplements containing MBM (meat and bone meal) was higher in the UK than the rest of the world, its practice was still observed and used in the US and elsewhere in Europe etc.
MBM does act as the vector for transmission.
The protein fed supplements containing MBM fed to calves in their first 2 weeks seems to "link" in its initiation and exclusive to practices within UK and hence is a direct link.
Sheep which contain the scrapie agent is defined as the source within the MBM. However, how the scrapie protein in sheep mutates into BSE is not known. The origin remains unknown.
The US does not routinely screen for this, only European farms do. The US has BSE but does not enforce test to prove it its existence; there would be mass economic problems for the US beef industry...just look at the current problems with S.Korea and Japan, both identified imported US beef with BSE not once or twice but 3 times in 2 years despite assurances otherwise. Time and again they failed...
Some 5 years after all new procedures for screening/testing in the UK were introduced only one positive test was found for cattle with BSE.
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#92, kecsmar, I'm with you, I don't eat
beef anymore (from anywhere), but I am
confused... The BBC link seems to indicate
that the new CJD is not linked to beef
consumption at this point - do you have
additional information?
Here is the link:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7497867.stm
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Lord Sidcup, your observation about brits cynical attitude to their polititians and americas reverence is spot on.
Sorry Kirk but a classic example was the long running British comedy show "Spitting Image" which regularly put Ronnie and maggie in bed with each other and maggie smoking a big cigar in a post coital puff.
This show did come to the USA but was dropped quickly because it was too irreverent.
So called american anti presidential comedy is in it's self a joke , because it generally tries "not to pass judgement". I E it says nothing of any consequence.
Now recently some of the talk shows are a LITTLE harder hitting,, but still pander to the polititians egos.
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35 I live here , came from Over the seas, and I agree come here people, learn about america, you will go home with EVEN MORE REASONS TO BASH AMERICANS.
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peterm99 wrote:
re: #75 Xie_Ming
"The horror . . . has been supplanted by the promise of Obama."
Alas, the promise appears to have been ephemeral.
If one checks out his speech to AIPAC and subsequent remarks, it is difficult to conclude that the likelihood of further violence in Iran or Israeli-occupied (and/or -coveted) areas is any less than with Bush or McCain.
Another person complaining about AIPAC. What is the problem. Israel is one of closest and most loyal allies. India has a similar group but no one ever complains about them
Despite the many viewpoints posted here even the most honest liberal poster would admidt that the overhwelming majority of Americans support Israel.
They are the front line in the fight against terrorism, and one of those main sponsors is Iran!!
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Justin:
Tony Snow has died, when you get back you might want to write about another great media and govt spokesman
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as fro the greatest nation stuffI'm in Eugene oregon, self procliaimed "track town USA'
and the "worlds greatest city of the arts".
the average american blacksmith-has a forge and maybe a real anvil,but no knowledge of how to use them so they make hooks.
America is about the Bull. it is about going to a job interview and telling the boss that "i'm the BEST you could get,Look at MA2 posts on engineering, etc. always claiming to know stuff to be experts.
TALK IT UP
that is what they do do here the best.
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kecsmar #94
so peterm99's point by point posting #89's was not verbose and woolly but my post responding to it point by point of about the same length was. How typical of the irrational biased European mind to make such a comment..
BTW, the belief as I understand it, is that the prions are tranferred from one animal to another by feeding them matter from the brains and spinal chords of infected animals, a common practice in Europe but not in the US. From what I can tell, the only recent BSE infected animal in US herds was a few years ago in one cow purchased from a Canadian herd. This was enough to cause an embargo of US beef imports by South Korea and maybe Japan. Why? Just another excuse to exclude competition in their domestic markets by the world's most efficient farmers. Now that it's being lifted in South Korea, there have been street demonstrations there by local farmers.
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#95 GunsR
It has been strongly inferred that mutation of the normal prion protein, as in the BBC link you provided, into its infected form is environmental. Since for a genetic mutation to occur has been cited as being "a rare stochastic event"; although not 100% discounted.
Even though the report says "...the cause of most cases of sporadic CJD is unknown.."
It has been demonstrated that exposure to BSE is the most likely cause.
So the BBC article is a bit confusing, just a cut and past from the lab, rather than a medical critique of their findings and being unbiased. However it does say a new form of vCJD may have been found. It doesn't say a new form HAS been found!
I wouldn't touch US beef if it was free. Most decently farmed and tested cattle is now safe, owing to the tell tail signs being known and proactive testing by farmers. The UK uses bar coding of every single cattle from birth to death for example. But it requires constant testing...which the US wont do nor enforce, for fear of opening pandoras box!
Kobe beef is excellent though:)
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Americans as a rule are really nice people - my English accent over the past 50 years has been the "open sesame" to great friendships and good conversations with complete strangers.
nobel,
yes and when you ask"did you get that ? they say , huh , your accent its great.
"
yea americans are suckers for the Brit accent,
that is one reason why when they open up about themselves, when they tell their stories and at some time I'm thinking, you don't bloody get it do you.
I just called your whole town a bunch of inbreed mutants but you thought it sounded nice.
That is why the printed word can be so much more expressive.
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as to 30 and americas 300 million super power,
It is the significant numbers of these peopel that think might means war and aggression.
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pembroke , great place to kite buggy.
and so near that great place MUMBLES.
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no insult as I see it on oregon, last place in most peoples minds, and they try to keep it that way.
If your back I'll show you some nice swimming holes.
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oregon has a pretty big HP system.
on the whole it provides power, down side.
There is no where for the salmon to breed, and it isProbably part of the demise in salmon stocks in the US.
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trade over bananas of all things which Europeans wanted to steer towards their former colonies in preference to bananas produced by at lower cost by large American corporations in central America,
do you mean they try to help island economies that have been growing bananas for years as opposed to industrial monocultures built on recently destroyed rain forest. probably no. but then your . you.
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proles. keep it up.
class is something the americans Think they got rid of. yea yea.
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as for trying foods of the world here, (US)it is true.
but you have to put up with the fact that a lot of food is kept dilliberatly bland, try getting a spicy meal. with the exception of the haebenaro crowd it is normally not worth it.
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Do Europeans actually think that Americans don't know or will quickly forget about all of the conflict between themselves and Europeans that had nothing to do with Iraq? Do they think Americans didn't see all of the demonstrations and hate speech Europeans directed at them? The anti-American hate in Western Europe that boiled over before the invasion of Iraq.
you mean the anti globalisation riots?
other than that what are you talking of.
I had little problem with americans or america , until. I moved here, then I found out that there ARE a lot of mentally regressive types.(fortunatly there are always really nice people in any overtly crap place).
they get knocked though ,by their fellow americans.
now to all, I really do not think as bad of the people of america as I portray some times.
most is true to some extent but , well a little inflated.
I know it tends to goad someone to showing the worst of america.
I regularly dis agree with others here but also see they pose good questions and information.
peter is a good example.
while we may disagree on many points, his arguments seem to come from somewhere real, not the imagination of an idiot who thinks he is a long dead European emperor.
And while it is true that there is no way the rambling trash posts of the aforementioned aipac lacky could not be the reason for so much antiamerican hatred, there are more of him out there,A LOT.
Now travelling the world I found many great americans,(especially the backpackers)(ie poorer out to gain from their travel)
And most have been nice even after I got to know them.
here is the problem.
I have the great joy of meeting americans at home.
and here I differ from most. I DO believe there is something to be answered by the people.
America is a democracy(and one that tries to impose that on others) .
the "greatest democracy in the world"
then how come they keep picking such horrible people to govourn them,(clintion included).
How is it that the people are not responsible for the actions of their nation.
It is? a democracy, right?
they do have the right to form a militia .
yet they sit back and say nothing or worse re vote in the bad guys.
anti war protesters were bullied, here, by the majority.
MOST AMERICANS WANTED THIS WAR.
Americans make up America.
If they want america to stop being bashed they should start bashing their own country.
ANd remember most americans(with a few exceptions) on this site are worldly in their outlook.
"If it is your intention to raise the level of foreign hostility/dislike of the US, I think you are doing a great job. Actually, I find your posts to be of great value on the BBC blog, if for no other reason than that you allow non-Americans to see that we have our share of bigoted, opinionated, narrow-minded, superficially-informed, arrogant, and churlish citizens. This helps them to understand why the more rational among us have difficulty in preventing politicians who hold views similar to yours from attaining power"
ma wonder why I stay here , well amongst others it is also for the people like this.
people who understand from a human point of view.
BTW peter Excellent reply there.
To back the idea of subsidies existing in the US. why would they stop the deal for the tanker project in order to make sure a "all American" boeing gets the contract.
no subsidy ?
How come only very recently(when there was not enough US steel making) did all steel in federal projects have to be US steel.
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Refuting your assertions point by point is so easy as to be hardly worth the effort.
(in ref to peter)
that is because as usual YOU CAN'T.
too many watching ready to tell you your wrong.
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As for the referendum , america is a democracy they listen to us crap.
Oregon voted FOR assisted suicide.
Oregon Voted for POT.
the FEDS SAID NO.
Whatever you say america does not respect votes by it's people anymore than anywhere else that is run by big money.
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jacksforge #97
"35 I live here , came from Over the seas, and I agree come here people, learn about america, you will go home with EVEN MORE REASONS TO BASH AMERICANS."
Write this day down, it is a red letter day. As rare as a total eclipse of the sun. Finally an admission of truth from a European. An inveterate America basher. But why then would someone stay in a place he finds so contemptable when he is free to leave at any time? And jacksforge's answer is....because his pet would have to remain in quarrantine for six months upon his return to the paradise of Britain. I couldn't make this stuff up folks. If it were written as fiction, nobody would believe it. Oh, and why did he come to live in America in the first place? He was looking for adventure.
Now confess jacksforge, what bothers you more? That America is clearly a far better place than Europe for most people to live in or that you are so loathe to admit it? BTW, insofar as being a European migrant to America and spending the rest of your life here, you are in good company as probably well over 100,000,000 people throughout history made the same decision. For all I know it was over 200,000,000. Whatever the number it was by far the greatest mass migration in human history. And the reverse migration from being born in America to living out a lifetime in Europe in preference? A mere trickle by comparison. Probably far less than one one hundredth as many. Now what doubt could that possibly leave in anyone's mind?
BTW, I am neither impressed or fooled by a British accent. In fact what was once a quaint rarity is not only common in the US now but the sound of it is beginning to grate on my nerves. I have come to appreciate the sound of the American Southern drawl by comparison far more than I used to and that includes the Texas drawl as well.
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98. At 3:06pm on 12 Jul 2008, MagicKirin wrote:
peterm99 wrote:
re: #75 Xie_Ming
"The horror . . . has been supplanted by the promise of Obama."
Alas, the promise appears to have been ephemeral.
If one checks out his speech to AIPAC and subsequent remarks, it is difficult to conclude that the likelihood of further violence in Iran or Israeli-occupied (and/or -coveted) areas is any less than with Bush or McCain.
Another person complaining about AIPAC. What is the problem. Israel is one of closest and most loyal allies. India has a similar group but no one ever complains about them
Despite the many viewpoints posted here even the most honest liberal poster would admidt that the overhwelming majority of Americans support Israel.
They are the front line in the fight against terrorism, and one of those main sponsors is Iran!!""""""
They are the terrorists.
as someone called america the bastard schild of britain, Israel is the bastard child of america.
and a brat at that.
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when Owen Bennet Jones almost from his gut burst out the question "Why are they (the Americans) so rich? And the absurd and clearly incorrect answer given by Sir Christopher Meyers, former UK ambassador to the US for over five years was that "America was first."
BLAG BLAG Context IDIOT. show the context.
first WHAT.
Context context context.
Oh and
you say"the belief as I understand it"
there is the problem.
you are someone who thinks an airbus 380 is the same as a C5 transport.
bye
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But why then would someone stay in a place he finds so contemptable when he is free to leave at any time? And jacksforge's answer is....because his pet would have to remain in quarrantine for six months upon his return to the paradise of Britain. I couldn't make this stuff up folks.
Strange thing MA2 , most brits are probably wondering why that would need to be made up or where the insult is or really what that has to do with the price of eggs in china.
Oh and rules have changed,pet passports et al.
but then your not to informed are you.
Guess the pet. and win the prize.
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i think the bbc did not like my views of Mr Melted
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but they were not complementary.
I thought he was like a used lolly.Sucked.
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jacksforge 117
I love it when you bring up the A380 versus the C5A. It shows up so many of the defects in European society, the way it allocates its resources, its technical inferiority, and it's such an easy argument for an American to win. Sometimes I think I should just put the explanation on a Word document and cut and paste it every time it comes up.
Is the A380 the same as the C5A? Yes and no. The C5A is a military cargo plane the US has been successfully manufacturing and operating for about 40 years. It is similar in size and lift capabilities to the A380. It is not the same in its detailed design however. It would be tragic if nothing had been learned about aircraft design in 40 years to produce a superior plane. Then what is the point? Simple, American aircraft designers could have easily designed and built a 500 to 800 passenger commercial aircraft by creating a civilian aviation version of the C5A any time they had wanted to in the last 40 years. (So could the Russians.) Then why didn't they? Because their market research showed there is not enough of a market for such a plane to justify the expense of developing it. Boeing looked at it again when it considered the next generation of aircraft and decided the ultimate potential for such a plane was only about 500 units. EADS claims it is 1200 units. But the cost of developing A380 has been so far over budget and so long delayed you have to wonder if Airbus will ever break even on it. And it has been heavily subsidized to the tune of 12 to 14 billion dollars by EU taxpayers. If it does not live up to its billing, it will just be one more European monument to ego that continent is so famous for. (Europe could have far better used that money and technical expertise to develop environmentally friendly alternate sources of energy had any common sense prevailed.)
Boeing has a good case. The hub and spoke model which A380 depends on is breaking down because the hubs are now saturated with as much air traffic as they can handle. The Boeing 787 dreamliner is Boeing's answer with a smaller plane designed to fly efficiently point to point which it sees as the future of aviation. Not one to be left out, even though EADS and Airbus are beset with managerial problems (its management has been forced out and may well all wind up in prison for insider stock trading) and beset with technical difficulties over A380, it decided to design a plane to compete directly with the 787, the A350. Now that too is beset with problems too. Were EADS not subsidized, it would probably be broke already.
The technical failure of A380 (only 1 has been delivered so far and possibly two or three more will be delivered this year) calls to mind other grand technical failures by Europeans, the Beagle II and the redundant European Space Agency in general, Galileo, the European answer to GPS which the US has threatened to shoot out of the sky for security reasons if Europe ever figures out how to make it work and deploys it are just two.
Don't expect Congress to allow the USAF to award those tankers to Lockheed Martin and its partner EADS. That contract is going to Boeing, whether they are the low bidder or not. Look for a lot more protectionism in US policy, especially if Barack Obama is elected president and the Democrats continue to control Congress.
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98. At 3:06pm on 12 Jul 2008, MagicKirin wrote:
peterm99 wrote:
re: #75 Xie_Ming
"The horror . . . has been supplanted by the promise of Obama."
Alas, the promise appears to have been ephemeral.
If one checks out his speech to AIPAC and subsequent remarks, it is difficult to conclude that the likelihood of further violence in Iran or Israeli-occupied (and/or -coveted) areas is any less than with Bush or McCain.
Another person complaining about AIPAC. What is the problem. Israel is one of closest and most loyal allies. India has a similar group but no one ever complains about them
Despite the many viewpoints posted here even the most honest liberal poster would admidt that the overhwelming majority of Americans support Israel.
They are the front line in the fight against terrorism, and one of those main sponsors is Iran!!""""""
They are the terrorists.
as someone called america the bastard schild of britain, Israel is the bastard child of america.
and a brat at that.
Once again Jackforge graces us with his ignorance
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What because I think israel behaves like terrorists.
they just shut down a bunch more businesses to keep the palestinians from realising economic gains.
the UN has continually tried to get on their case but every time the US jumps in"how dare you call my child a bastard?"
No insult when a rabid zionist tries to throw mud.
The mud doen't travel as far as they wish, but then it is hard to throw mud while treading"water" in a cess pool.
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#114 MarcusAureliusII: "America is clearly a far better place than Europe for most people to live in." Another of your sweeping generalities. Apparently the Danes, being the happiest nation on earth, would not agree and I have no doubt that neither do millions of other nationalities. What may be better for one person may not be so for another. Nowhere is perfect - and since you have never visited Britain, let alone lived there, I cannot see how you can dismiss an entire continent with such a variation in character, culture and language.
"I am neither impressed or fooled by a British accent" - There is no such thing as "British accent" - it was our language first, thus it is Americans, Canadians, Indians, etc., who have an accent! Just as well you do not intend visiting the sceptered isle since that's how they speak - it would drive you to insanity; as far as I can tell, it needs only a gentle nudge to do so.
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Magickirin #122
Only more than their hatred of America is the hatred many Europeans have for Jews. Israel bashing is one of their favorite sports. BBC engages in it from time to time itself, sometimes in well dressed hidden forms and sometimes openly. I think many Europeans are sorry that the Jews were not completely wiped out by Hitler and secretly hope the Moslems will finish the job. At the very least, they would be only too happy if Israel and the Jews just somehow disappeared. America's unwavering support for Israel, now stronger than ever is just another excuse for America bashing. Often postings supporting Israel are removed by BBC censors by finding some excuse where they construe that it broke a rule. Anti-semitism remains rife in Europe. France with 8% of its population Moslem is certainly one place where it is true.
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and if you want true ignorence then look at the post above.
And M erronious.
it is only you that can think there were simularities between those craft , and if you did know anything and did look at the fuel savings(oh sorry the US will fly with coal soon eh?)
technology Hubble , doing well?
you really are quite the dumbest person I have ever conversed with.
I reffer all to check how factually correct this assesment is (like most others from M ERRONIOUS it is as valid as my monthly train pass in the UK than I got in 2000.
"Don't expect Congress to allow the USAF to award those tankers to Lockheed Martin and its partner EADS. That contract is going to Boeing, whether they are the low bidder or not. Look for a lot more protectionism in US policy, especially if Barack Obama is elected president and the Democrats continue to control Congress."
and stop talking of euro subsidies when you bring up this tanker deal.
As for Obama. I don't care how protectionist he is as long as we do not start a war.
destroy america's chance of any moral highground and screw up the planet.
Global ain't always good. look before you got kicked out of medical school for being thick enough to try to compete with french student in their own language you must have liked the euro's.
then you travelled and came back a facist and a coward.
so obviously globallisation of you did not work.
just made you bitter and twisted.
America sucks, suck that up.
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Jack: When do you find time to qttend to your forge? Just curious!
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when it gets cooler.
oh and I'm quick.
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jacksforge wrote:
What because I think israel behaves like terrorists.
they just shut down a bunch more businesses to keep the palestinians from realising economic gains.
the UN has continually tried to get on their case but every time the US jumps in"how dare you call my child a bastard?"
No insult when a rabid zionist tries to throw mud.
The mud doen't travel as far as they wish, but then it is hard to throw mud while treading"water" in a cess pool.
Yes Jacky boy you are ignorant. the Palestinian were offered a generous package while Arafat was alive. What is the first two things they do when Israel unilaterly withdraws? Destroy the olive groves and start firing missles.
The U.N has a person whose only job is to criticize Israel. Not N Korea, Zimbawbwe or the terrorist mullahs.
By the way were you educated by Ward Churchill or Norm Chomsky because you seem to be using their talking points?
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124 david .LOL. should we push next time?
BTW M erronious, maybe I care not for your affections but your daughter, well she might just be another sucker for a person that speaks the Queens English..you want to introduce us?
Nah don't worry the missus would get pissed.
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Go Jack!!! As any working American will tell you, we work and play harder nd better than any Euro-peon
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#125. MarcusAureliusII wrote: "Only more than their hatred of America is the hatred many Europeans have for Jews "and "Anti-semitism remains rife in Europe."
Where do you get these ideas from? Perhaps it's something in the water that urges you to make such despicable statements. Hatred is a very strong word and to blast all of Europe as you do is ridiculous. If you are judging by those you have met abroad then, given your excessive dislike of anything and anyone there, it is no wonder that you have not been greeted with affection.
Concerning anti-semitism: "France . . . certainly one place where it is true." Even if that were to be correct, name the other countries where you consider it to be rife. In other words, "put up or shut up". I can think of few worse ambassadors for America than yourself, spewing as you do such insults and inaccuracies. Until now, "the ugly American" had disappeared, but it appears to have been resurrected by yourself.
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The A380 won't look so fuel efficient...when it flies half empty.
Is the Hubble space telescope doing well? AFAIK unless something happened to it I don't know about.
http://hubblesite.org/
The Hubble space telescope is the greatest astronomical observatory ever devised. Freed from distortions and absorption of the earth's atmosphere, it has been taking pictures for years that have astounded scientists. These include objects so faint and distant that they were undetectable by optical telescopes on earth. An initial problem was corrected in a repair mission involving American astronauts in a space walk. The only space walk the European Space Agency has managed as far as I can tell was the walk to the space down the road from their offices to buy lunch at a restaurant.
Obama is not against war, he just opposed the invasion of Iraq. He seems not only ready to continue waging the war in Afghanistan with troops he'd like to pull out of Iraq, he said he's ready to attack Pakistan, a US ally...at least nominally an ally. I wonder how many other nominal allies of the US he'd be ready to attack.
Let me make this clear, I was not kicked out of medical school in France. I quit of my own accord when it was clear to me I would not be able to graduate to successive levels because of the competition which favors francophiles born in French speaking countries.
I was not anti-European when I lived there nor when I came back although I did notice the surprising gap between American civilization and European civilization. It's been over 34 years since I left. My loathe for Europe has developed in the interim, simply by listening to what Europeans say and watching what they do. That's what it took. And it wan't any one thing, it was everything taken together. Having lived there merely put it in context.
David_Cunard, I didn't know there were millions of nationalities. Could you list just maybe fifty or a hundred thousand of them. BTW, I know all of the 200 or so in the UN so you can skip those. You are right about one thing, I have no intention of visiting your plessed blot, your scuppered isle, your Britain.
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Only more than their hatred of America is the hatred many Europeans have for Jews"
M erronious.
The Jews are not the same as the Zionists. And all the Jews I know hate the US to.
then their not zionists.
One refered to the ISraeli's as a bunch of self obsessed ego maniacs.(which I thought a little overstated. but then they had lived there.
"Israel and the Jews just somehow disappeared. America's unwavering support for Israel, now stronger than ever is just another excuse for America bashing."
no it is one of the reasons for america bashing. even by jews. refer to that charlie rose interview linked in an earlier discussion.
but all you had to say to that was I like charlie rose and then you skipped on, no mention of the hour long interview where both the interviewees expressed the same opinions that the US does Israel no favours by being so bias.
but then you can't argue very well.
By the way AGAIN what is anti semitism?
And when did the meaning stop refering to all the semites and become only Jews?
Seeing as most semites are not jewish it seems strange that anti semitism would come to only include jews.
They probably censor you because you talk of illegal acts like destroying in a hail of bombs nations for no reason other than ,They are Not jewish.( never know maybe GW is a fan and would start ww3 for you).
If america was so concerned to provide them with a home land , why not kansas or somewhere.
Just remember the early days of the KKK were as against JEWS and CATHOLICS as black, more so in many ways, (until the blacks got organised then the kkk all worried about black conspiracy)(like others).
America so accepting?
Oh and again by the way, just so europes jewish population does not get fooled into thinking america is the land of milk and honey , I have never heard so much base anti jewish sentiments as living in the USA.
I never once heard people say"well he's Jewish" and I have here,in oregon.
Never heard "one of them" "you know"
I say I am against zionists and oh boy do the racist anti jewish people crawl out of the wood work.
So don't tell me about america's ethnic acceptance .
ANd Aipac and you and majerkin all make it harder for all jews.
you (as usual) put your thoughts onto Israel's image. and then people say, that's wrong, and scared they go underground with their hate.
Americans do not like Israel as much as you pretend.
but most are polite so you may not hear it.
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majerk . the UN has done nothing to israel. it does it too it's self.
you have a more one sided view than you think.
Jewish and Israeli people are not all the zionists that you support.
they want to live in peace.
as do their neigbours.
If you were kicked out of your big house, lost your pool and those lovely plants you had nurtured . Had you family shrine trashed.
would you be happy if the sod that did it came and offered you a trailer at the end of the yard,
would you be happy.
Your fair deal is not fair by the palistinians angle.
But then when the thief of your lands points a machine gun at you , you go "fair nuff"
then when he is not looking you throw a rock at his window.
he comes out shoots your dog and cat.
and points the gun right back at you"you want more?"
Time to throw another rock.
Israel has thrown away as many chances as anyone to find peace, they are right now with Iran.
So Time I called you a name.
Keep slinging you may hit the edge of the crap one day.
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It is not me that has shown racism here. it is the zionists.
They think all international law should be considered irrelevant as to how it concerns Israel.
Iran should be attacked for thinking of building a Nuke, or a missile.
Israel, we'll give missiles to and say Keep the nukes hidden, or have a parade, cause we do not care.
I suggest an international movement to stop buying Israeli goods.
As with South Africa.
No olympics, no trade. A boycott.
It would take no time to break Israel.
No one go work the Kibbutz, no one buy hebrew hotdogs etc.
That is how america treats Cuba, and Iran, so why not treat Israel like that.
they have done as much to deserve it.
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who was the sponsor of the columbia.
7 up
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and you were not kicked but" let go"
as to hubble hope it makes it past it's next space walk or it could be a pile of junk.
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#133 I think it was quite obvious that I meant millions of people of different nationalities.
As you have not been in Europe for 34 years (that's before the Bicentennial) there is no possible way that you can judge its inhabitants "simply by listening to what (they) say and watching what they do." The changes in lifestyle, economic progress, the strengthened Euro and Pound Sterling against the Dollar are part and parcel of understanding life and attitudes on the far side of the Atlantic. To loathe anything or anyone requires a face-to-face familiarity with the subject, not taking television and other media reports as gospel. However nicely written, your views are not based on experience of contemporary life abroad, and so are of little consequence, except to fill the entries of sites such as this.
"You are right about one thing, I have no intention of visiting your plessed blot, your scuppered isle, your Britain." That's the best news I've heard this week! However, as you have never been there, I cannot see how you can judge British life and all that it entails. Ignorance is bliss. I suggest that since jacksforge and I have been back and forth, our views are likely to better reflect what's best and worst on both sides of the ocean; yours cannot.
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Magic (129),
Still drinking the Kool-Ade?The "generous offer" was for rather less than 20% of their homeland back, with illegal settlements left in place, over four fifths of the water going to Israel, Israel to control all access, egress and trade, etc., etc.
Such 'generosity' would make Atilla the Hun seem a paragon.
If in doubt, read the "Road Map" and the Israeli "Reservations".
Such generosity!
Salaam/Shalom/Shanthi/Dorood/Peace
ed
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Justin have a great holiday . On anti-American sentiment ...I travel to the UK about once a year or more and I must say on the whole I am treated with courtesy and good cheer by most . I think the Brits are begining to feel sorry for me as I have started to wince at the prices of things in GBP . With our weak dollar ,seems I am becomming the poor cousin.
I suspect they also feel somewhat embarassed for us in America that we have to put up with Bush for a little while longer .If only we make it until he leaves maybe things will get better . Oh well there is always a bargan at a Oxfam shop !
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Wow not even been to the UK?
Is this the same guy that keeps getting at Brits for not understanding this country?
Amazing.
Well not really. I actually doubt he is older than 18 and think he must still be at an american high school.
such is his ignorance.
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Ed Iglehart wrote:
Magic (129),
"the Palestinian were offered a generous package while Arafat was alive"
Still drinking the Kool-Ade?
The "generous offer" was for rather less than 20% of their homeland back, with illegal settlements left in place, over four fifths of the water going to Israel, Israel to control all access, egress and trade, etc., etc.
Such 'generosity' would make Atilla the Hun seem a paragon.
If in doubt, read the "Road Map" and the Israeli "Reservations".
Such generosity!
Salaam/Shalom/Shanthi/Dorood/Peace
Disregard Reservation and Read the Case for Israel by Dershowitz
The terrorist Arafat was offer 95% of what his unreasonable demands were.
He did not wish to coexist the same way Hamas and Hezbollah don't.
There was no Palestine nation before 1948 look at a historical map.
The world should start demand some accounting from the Arab nations for reperations to Israel.
But it is ok for people to hate and attack Israel including you and Jackforge.
I trust the moderators won't delete this for PC reasons
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Hyperbole, when not intentionally humorous, is bothersome. Hans Blix was someone who did NOT believe the fictions about Iraq WMDs.
Obama does indeed offer the promise of hope to people- the hope of emergence from the dark night of legalistic NeoCons.
That so many Americans seek this hope is a tribute to that aspect of the character of Americans that appeals to the World.
Those who wonder about the American character can go back and read again what Alexis deTocqueville wrote in 1848- it still applies today!
_____________________
As to comments touching on "anti-Semitism".
The truth is that the fundamentalists of the Jewish religion indoctrinate a virulent anti-gentilism and that the Israeli state incorporates these ideas.
It is the Reform Jews and many of the secular who are not indoctrinated with these attitudes.
So, those who think "anti-Semitism" must also consider "anti-Gentilism".
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Lets lighten a little folks. It is hot it is steamey - typical of summertime in Barcelona, Spain.
Lets just say that there are just as many opinion and misunderstandins about those who live on on eside of the Atlantica as on the other.
Some best posting of the season:
Britain locked in its Imperial Musem.
Its difficlut to knock a skyscraper down with a locomotive.
Thanks to everyone - Im off on holiday now for a couple of months doing nothing in particular.
So I leave you, my friends, with a Spanish joke about the Italians: There is never any shortage of Italian olive oil - even when the crop fails. It just speaks with a Spanish accent. I was reminded of it when GWB called the Italian Prsident 'amigo'.
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Magic,
"There was no Palestine nation before 1948 look at a historical map."
Indeed! Here's a map, and here's another!, and yet another....and Here's the official British Mandate census for 1946/7 Salaam/Shalom/Shanthi/Dorood/Peace ed And here are Israel's founders and leaders in their own words: [Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]
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(without the offending pdf)
Indeed! Here's a map, and here's another!, and yet another....and Here's the official British Mandate census for 1946/7Magic,
Salaam/Shalom/Shanthi/Dorood/Peace
ed
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A quicker link to the British Mandate official 1946 map of Palestine, signed by Moshe Dayan in the upper left corner:
here
Salaam, etc.
ed
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jacksforge;
"who was the sponsor of the columbia.
7 up"
Who was the sponsor of Beagle II. It wasn't Schwepps. It might have survived the landing on Mars......if it had .........Schweppervesence.
The Hubble telescope is due to be retired much to the chagrin of many astronomers who want it to stay in service. It is due to be replaced by I think an X-ray telescope or some other sort of super telescope. So what has the European Space Agency put in orbit in the way of a space based observatory? A pair of Leitz binoculars with a JVC camcorder?
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http://www.postcardsfrommarsbook.com/
Fact, not fiction.
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Oof, this MarcusAurelius guy is a bit nasty, eh?! There is much to criticise about America (mainly its government) but it's generally a nice place with good people. Europe has it's good and bad as well. Any side that slates the other with no balance (as Marcus Aurelius does) just brings their own country into disrepute.
coloradocowboy in post 54 said that I was the kind of European that annoys Americans (one that criticises the US while being "ignorant", even though I know the place all too well), but MarcusAurelius is the kind of yank that gets us annoyed. Everything America does is great, everything about Europe is rubbish. Yawn! Most Americans aren't like this thankfully, and we do realise that this is the case. Problem is, they're the loudest ones so get the most attention and give the majority a bad name.
Anyway, perhaps this will bring the two sides together:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ah1EbIOdAZE
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#133MAii
"..Let me make this clear, I was not kicked out of medical school in France. I quit of my own accord when it was clear to me I would not be able to graduate..."
You quit, hmmm...
So i take it then that you returned to the US and continued your studies and became a successful medical doctor?
As for someone who hasn't visited the very countries one is criticising for some 34 years with venom yet ignores that very same when reciprocated by those being criticised, only highlights the ignorance hypocrisy and bias of ones own voice rather than that to which one is criticising.
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beagle 2 was not manned last i looked.
I suppose neither was the challenger at the end.
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kecsmar;
Actually, I went back to the US and continued my career as an engineer. I was a degreed engineer with several years of work experience before I went to France.
Why must someone visit a country to criticize it? Many Europeans criticize the US never having been there. How many are now criticizing China who haven't been there? Sudan? Zimbabwe? Israel? Ever been to China or Israel kecsmar? How about Sudan?
Of course, I have criticized not just the UK but all of Europe, Western Europe in particular but all of it. And I have not only been there, I've lived there. Do I have to live in every part of it to criticize it all? I'll bet I've read a lot more European history than you've read American history yet you find no problem criticizing America. So which is it about my postings you dislike most? That I point out the fatal flaws in European civilization that will doom it to failure to my fellow Americans or that I point them out to Europeans? Don't worry kecsmar, there will still be Americans foolish enough to pay to visit ph*****gdam palace even if the cost of the visit was overpriced when the dollar was strong.
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funny thing. I personally think with the exception of missions to monitor the screw ups we are creating on earth, space is a waste of time.(though solar cell developement could be helped)
But just in case you are interested in the history of the waste of space hubble picture maker(nah really science is cool by me , just have to be careful)
http://www.esa.int/esaSC/SEM106WO4HD_index_0_m.html
A bias euro version of the History of this telescope joint venture by the Esa and Nasa.
oh wait this can't be real. not MA2 erronious again is it.
no wonder the brilliant french medical system (as reported on his fave NPR) rejected him. diagnostic marvel that he is.
"The United States space agency, the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA), operates the Hubble Space Telescope in cooperation with the European Space Agency (ESA). The telescope is controlled by radio commands relayed from NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Maryland. Astronomers tell the telescope where to point, and computer -- driven instruments aboard the telescope record the resulting observations. The telescope transmits the data by radio to astronomers on the ground."
this is from nasa's own website.
and wiki for what its worth
The HST is a collaboration between NASA and the European Space Agency,
oh and the tanker deal. well if it were not for protectionism america would have gone to the europeans for a aircraft. despite previous assurances from some of those more less abled people here.
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jacksforge, you know what your problem is? You take Schweppervesence far too lightly. That extra kick it gives might have been all the beagle II would have needed to make a landing on Mars.
BTW, have you looked at the stunning photos the two Martian rovers Spirit and Opportunity sent back? They were only expected to last a few months but they've been sending them back for years. Now we have NASA's latest probe digging in Mars' nothern polar ice cap to try to find water ice. (NASA let some Brits actually take part in it by makeing a contribution but to hear them tell it, you'd think they'd built the whole thing and let NASA take them along for the ride.) What's the European Space Agency digging up these days? Mud in Manchester?
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it is that YOU "criticizing " it that people object to, but in my case encourage, for you are everything you hate.
shaving must be hard for you, self loathing and all that.
just because you hate yourself for your religious beliefs,but cannot accept it,so you transfer that hatred to others .
but it is within you
funny thing none of the americans I knew in the UK were happy when they had to go back ,when their visa's ran out.
they seemed to like going to the pub for lunch, even seemed to find themselves to be free.
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an extra o ring might have helped the 7 up crew or some glue might have helped the columbia's crew.
like the hubble news to you?
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oh and i do believe you are drunk.
you should go to the UK they have a lot of pubs.
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"...Why must someone visit a country to criticize it?..."
So, if you haven't been there you don't know what exits there. You are reliant upon second/third hand biased information. Ergo, you haven't a clue what you are criticising, apart from someone else's critique of another country through their editors eyes.
Nowt like myopia....
I must say, there is nothing like blind ignorance, well done for championing this worthwhile cause!
So you finished as an engineer, not medical doctor as you intended. A trip to France to become to further ones education as a doctor seems like a flight of fancy that came down with a bump then really....
So, all your comments are just like that, you start off in one direction, and when countered and request facts for your agruement you meander into another unrelated direction, the easy ruote out, hoping no one will notice.
Nice one....wish i thought of that when at uni.
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Is the A380 the same as the C5A? Yes and no. The C5A is a military cargo plane the US has been successfully manufacturing and operating for about 40 years. It is similar in size and lift capabilities to the A380. It is not the same in its detailed design however. It would be tragic if nothing had been learned about aircraft design in 40 years to produce a superior plane. Then what is the point? Simple, American aircraft designers could have easily designed and built a 500 to 800 passenger commercial aircraft by creating a civilian aviation version of the C5A any time they had wanted to in the last 40 years. (So could the Russians.) Then why didn't they? Because their market research showed there is not enough of a market for such a plane to justify the expense of developing it. Boeing looked at it again when it considered the next generation of aircraft and decided the ultimate potential for such a plane was only about 500 units. EADS claims it is 1200 units. But the cost of developing A380 has been so far over budget and so long delayed you have to wonder if Airbus will ever break even on it. And it has been heavily subsidized to the tune of 12 to 14 billion dollars by EU taxpayers. If it does not live up to its billing, it will just be one more European monument to ego that continent is so famous for. (Europe could have far better used that money and technical expertise to develop environmentally friendly alternate sources of energy had any common sense prevailed.)
Er NO. (he ass)
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kecsmar , i've been trying to tell him that for ages now, but he dont get it.
proving yet again he has the ability to write but not to understand what he says,
hence my previous conclusion that he is a teenager still in high school , hoping he doesn't get left behind.
Lucky daddy managed to buy that engineering degree for him.
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I've just finished cycling across the USA, it was very interesting to talk about the election in the varied places and people I met, from people stockpiling ammunition for a race war, to democrats and republicans having fierce but good-natured arguments. In one town the Obama office was opposite the Hillary office. Obama's office had a real buzz, Hillary's had a single old lady staring at the ceiling.
You might be interested in my trip blog, most recent post is a summary of crossing the plains:
http://dog-solitude.blogspot.com/
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#154 MAII Reference Europe: "I have not only been there, I've lived there." Not for 34 years though. If someone now living in Europe were to judge the US by what was happening when they lived there in 1974, they would have a very different impression than if they had lived in America for the last decade. I doubt very much if you read European newspapers and magazines 30 or so years ago since they were not readily available - and it's only in the last ten years that virtually all news publications have online editions. I can't see how you can possibly judge Europe with so little information.
Since you were last in Europe so many years ago, and at the time would have probably been at least 25, I calculate that you're around the 60 mark, possibly a little more. Your views on Europe have become not merely more conservative, but reactionary. It's a pity that someone approaching old age should have such negative opinions about anything, let alone an entire continent, without which there would never have been a United States. Perhaps your only enjoyment is sitting at your computer commenting on various blogs since you don't appear to be a very happy individual. Such a shame that you've had what appears to be a wasted life. But there is hope - and time to change; if Scrooge could do it and bring a little happiness to his fellow men, then so can you. Try it, you'll like it!
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re: #163 dogsolitude
Great reading! Thanks.
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Ed Iglehart wrote:
Magic,
"There was no Palestine nation before 1948 look at a historical map."
Indeed! Here's a map, and here's another!, and yet another....and Here's the official British Mandate census for 1946/7 Salaam/Shalom/Shanthi/Dorood/Peace ed And here are Israel's founders and leaders in their own words: [Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]
It was a divided area between Palestinian and Jewish settlers. There was no formal declaration by the Palestininans. Isreal was found in 1948 immediatly attacked by several cowardly Arabs nations, then the map relfected Egypt, Transjordan, Syria, Lebanon and a Palestinian protectorate under Jordan and of course the democratic country of Israel.
Isreal has honored it's commitment and the Palestinians play the victim card ala Jessie Jackson.
They would have a better life if they accepted Israel's existance
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I agree with Justin that Jesse Jackson represents the past, just as dogsolitude illustrated in #163 with Obama's office having the buzz compared to Clinton's. (Well done on on the cycling by the way!) Bill Clinton's recent comments at a governor's convention in Philadelphia only show he and the old guard of the Democratic party still do not get it.
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So kecsmar, by your logic, 99.999% of all Europeans fall into your categorization of having criticized nations all over the world without having been there, ergo, in your own words they are ignorant, blind, don't have a clue of what it's about, are myopic....etc. Did I get it right? I think that about sums up my opinon of them too, having met so many of them both in their native habitat and in other places like here in my own country and on the internet, that seems to sum most of them up. And of course, YOU also fit neatly into this category along with many of your fellow Brits who for example have recently been highly critical of Zimbabwe, Sudan, Burma, China, without ever having been to any of them just to name a few. Of course you and they would exclude yourselves from having to actually visit because being Europeans in general and Brits in particular don't have to go to other countries yourselves to know what is best for the people who live there, you are just smarter than anyone else and have all the answers for all of the people and problems of the world. That is why your criminal empires were justified. The natives of distant lands didn't know how to exploit their own resources to any advantage so Europeans felt compelled to take it from them and put it to better use. Much of the wealth Europe has left which it didn't destroy in one or another of its countless wars of internascene conquest was stolen from other people. That occurred to me when I visited the gold craftwork factories outslde of Toledo Spain. All that gold was stolen from other nations. BTW, since people change according to you, when is your government going to return the Elgin marbles to its rightful ownere nation? I don't think there is any further risk of them being destroyed in the place where they came from and belong and from which your government claims they were removed for "safe keeping."
kecsmar, I never wanted to be a practicing physician. My interest in medicine would have taken me into research. I don't like being around sick people. I don't consider my time in Euope to have been wasted or my decision to leave a bump. In addition to having read a great deal of medicine from American texts I had sent over there, I got quite an education about both myself adapting to a culture that was both alien and did not speak English (that they'd admit to anyway) and about the world. I don't think 34 years changed the mindset, the feel of society in a place that moves as glacially as Europe does but if it has changed in that time having recovered physically and psychologically from the second world war and having become somewhat more affluent, it has if anything regressed. It's a change for the worse. It is going backwards. It is more arrogant and self absorbed than ever. The EU alone in the form Europeans created it is proof. I see more proof of it on this very blog site every day. And its antisemitism hasn't abated one bit either. Some like jacjsforge can rationalize their own by playing games with words calling it antizionism but it boils down to exactly the same thing. And yes no matter where he lives, in Oregon or anywhere else, his mind is a product of British culture.
jacksforge, I paid for my engineering education myself with a student loan. We have those here in case you didn't know.
David_Cunard;
I got much of my information about Europe after I quit living there from BBC on shorwave radio. BBC was once the best news organizatoin in the world for international news. Today it is a mere shell, a pale ghost of its former self. Its standards of journalism have gone into the toilet. Its inability to report the news objectively without interjecting its own opinions almost inseparably makes it very difficult to parse out facts from its constant editorializing. As a news organization today, it stinks. It's hardly much better than the American Commercial networks it and Brits like to compare it to. PBS and NPR are far superior.
jacksforge, still hung up on the A380, the Eurosauris Rex I see.
"an extra o ring might have helped the 7 up crew or some glue might have helped the columbia's crew."
You really should stick to what you know, banging metal. The space shuttle Challenger exploded becaue the O rings failed due to launching the vehicle at low temperatures at which the elasticity of the polymer the O rings were made out of was too low to form a gas tight seal. It was leakage of fuel through these O rings that caused the disaster. More O rings would not have helped. Prior to the disaster, possibly only a few thousand chemists specializing in the particular material used in them were aware of the risks. Hindsight and generalizations about properties of polymers are as inappropriate as generaliztions about metals. You of all people should know better.
How telling that Euroeans on this and so many other threads keep getting off topic because they are so obsessed with the idea that there is someone out there in the world who not only thinks their civilization inferior, hypocritical, and doomed but says so...incessantly that they have to bash him too. Insult me and slander me all you like, it won't deter me one bit from revealing the true facts about Europe today and its sordid criminal past, a history which is a litany of wars, subjugation of people around the world, slavery, and mass murder.
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Here's a timely example for you kecsmar. It's from the BBC blog site "James Renyold's China." It's posting #50 in the latest thread called "Testing pollution levels" by a contributor with the moniker "nanium."
"Peace_4_all
u have a typical british "I'm the best" ideology which Im not surprised. I hate Xinhua just as much as you do, but it doesn't mean that all of its reports are fabricated (except I can read Chinese and u can't). Medically, we identify people like you as "splitting" - making world into black and white. I don't see why people cannot compare different media in your so called "free speech" Britain? I wonder, any of your perspectives actually from real life experience or just all from your local media? If latter, then no point wasting my time discussing things you only see on TV. I'm sorry if the comment torched your royal nerve. "
I surmise nanium concluded Peace_for_all had never visited China and had only gotten his or her knowledge about it from biased local BBC and other news. How interesting that someone half a world away I never heard of came to exactly the same conclusion about Britain that I did and expressed it at exactly the same time. There is one difference however between me and nanium....I am not the least bit sorry if my comments torch your royal nerve...and a lot of Brits do have some nerve telling the rest of the world what to do considering Britain's past history of making such a horrible mess of it.
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and try refuting the facts outlined not the fact that I have a pet aardvark that I don't want to put in quarantine.
Come up with anything to back up your bull.
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and whats the point in free speech when your too scared to say anything.
NO american news outlet said the war was bull.
they glossed over the(thankyou xie) FACT that the person given the task of assessing (and boy we now know he was way better at it than you would have been) said their were none.
But no free speech is only useful if you USE it.
Oh by the way farmers know o rings get brittle. I know it, one hell of a lot of people know it.
what's more an extra one would help
Oh and by the way AGAIN. I ASK YOU MR YANK,Where ARE the first nationers.
That was america's doing.
different continent different genocide,(one you over look)
As for anti zionists.
that's what I am.
Any Jew wants to move in and marry a "good catholic" girl I don't give a damn.
I don't care what religion someone is.
I don't care if their an athiest.
but you again conveiniently went right by the relevent point of the KKK was there to get rid of JEWS, and CAtholics, then blacks.
So how accepting is that as a nation.
Your a war mongering chickenhawk , medical school failure, bad engineer(I refer to the EVIDENCE of O rings and C5).
but come back if you want to look even more daft.
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I would also contest the long verbose writings( for they are not analysis or discussion) of M .erronious ,are all like his technical writings. verbose.
nothing else.
were you the sort that always handed in an essay with 10 pages when asked for 2 and the teacher still failed you for not covering any of the facts.
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#168, MAII "I don't like being around sick people. " That's pretty rich considering the source!
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kecsmar, I never wanted to be a practicing physician. My interest in medicine would have taken me into research.
you can't even tell the difference between a c5 and a 380.
"and did not speak English (that they'd admit to anyway) and about the world. "
poor brits never to have this excuse, to ignore you
"jacksforge, still hung up on the A380, the Eurosauris Rex I see. "
"an extra o ring might have helped the 7 up crew or some glue might have helped the columbia's crew."
"You really should stick to what you know, banging metal. The space shuttle Challenger exploded becaue the O rings failed due to launching the vehicle at low temperatures at which the elasticity of the polymer the O rings were made out of was too low to form a gas tight seal. It was leakage of fuel through these O rings that caused the disaster. More O rings would not have helped."
which is why they put an extra o ring on
"The redesign of the O-rings in the SRBs included the addition of a third pressurized O-ring on the outside of the inner two which improves the seal and greatly strengthens the physical connection between the segments to compensate for the extreme forces that occur during launch and firing of the SRBs. Heaters were added to the joints to prevent cold weather from affecting the sealing capability of the O-rings"
NASA web site. get some facts right .
Medically, what l do you know about medicine you failed.
The reason I point out the air bus is because it is easy for people to look at the photo's alone and say they look nothing like each other.
the reason I pointed out the Hubble was a joint venture was because it was,
(but I notice you did not go down that path)
and the reason I mentioned the space shuttle was YOU ARE WRONG AGAIN.
NASA not a good enough source for you Esa not good enough
space shuttle WRONG
a380 WRONG
hubble WRONG
you analysis of the middle east WRONG .
Your analysis of anti semitism WRONG.
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as for the history of the past. come out of it Old child we are looking at bigger pictures that are more relevant.
america murdered committed genocidal acts.
KKK is still alive.
and your no more tollerant as a nation than amny others(though I agree racism is on the rise in europe anti semitism even.Directed at the muslim population(which I notice you never spell right.) but not that I care about spelling that would be a pot and kettle thing.
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pot and kettle mmmm i think I'll say yes to both.How many sugars.
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You know jacksforge, you never fail to amaze me. I can learn a lot reading your posts. And here all along I thought that the material used for the O ring seals on the launch vehicle for the space shuttle would not be the same material as what is commonly used on farm equipment. Live and learn. Oh by the way, what is that material? The IUPAC (International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry) chemical designation for the material would be sufficient for me to identify it. By coincidence, I studied organic chemistry three times (and didn't flunk even once.)
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Jacksforge, it was the heaters that made the difference. The extra ring was an additional precaution they included for an extra measure of safety but was not necessary. Without the heaters, the added ring would not have prevented a similar failure in cold weather for the very same reason it failed in the first place. There was no comparable risk when the shuttle was launched at higher ambient temperatures where the O rings had sufficient elasticity.
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jacksforge, I finally got around to watching the documentary you recommended about the electric car. Pretty interesting. I thought GM's actions were particularly disturbing.
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WIll you please try to answer the point that.
YOU said an extra O ring was not needed.
mr know it all you do this every time
and prove kecsmer's point
"So, all your comments are just like that, you start off in one direction, and when countered and request facts for your agruement you meander into another unrelated direction, the easy route out, hoping no one will notice."
yet clearly it was needed (from the point of view of nasa.
As to the condesending comments on farm equipment.
yes it is different but there are few materials that get more pliable when super cooled.
Rubber breaks in liquid nitrogen.
rubber hardens in the cold and most farmers will know that.
we all learn that at kindergarden.
oh what is that iupac chemical designation?
(which i really don't care., it failed more were needed)
you try to be sarcastic but you just keep digging.
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what ever you know more than nasa about it do you.
? amazing
I don't doubt higher temps would help, I don't care ,what you said was
"More O rings would not have helped."
they did.
that I should stick to banging metal .
I suggest you should stick to banging your head on the walls.
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"185. At 5:44pm on 13 Jul 2008, jalvarezv wrote:
jacksforge, I finally got around to watching the documentary you recommended about the electric car. Pretty interesting. I thought GM's actions were particularly disturbing."
THANK YOU, not just for watching (it is scary eh?) but also for coming in at this time with a decent subject.
my thing is there is enough evidence there to put them on trial, or at least in front of a congressional commitee of some sort.
what a wasted 8 years.
I hope that old gezzer with the civic gets to see his dream.
and for all those that say we can't do it.or say the americans that ask for me to show some love to america. this guy would get it.
He has the attitude america needs now.
but you will have to watch it to see what I am talking about.
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There's an article by Matt Frei (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7486705.stm) regarding the "BBC World debate on the future of oil". The article (nor the televised debate) does not say why only Nissan was there from the auto industry. Were others not invited? Did they refuse to attend? Anyway, they say that Nissan plans to have a EV in sale in the US by 2010. If GM (an others) already have the technology, why aren't they building them again?
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still waiting for that answer on the composition of the O rings.?
surely you can type it in and leave out the insults so we can all beniffit from your wisdom on this subject(.BTW I won't believe you any way.)
"Prior to the disaster, possibly only a few thousand chemists specializing in the particular material used in them were aware of the risks"
and farmers and school kids and house wives and a hell of a lot of other common non engineers.
and you missed the point.
I am actually sorry that people lost their lives in that accident.
It is a rather complicated craft.
Just to try to get you to understand when making such comments
" calls to mind other grand technical failures by Europeans, the Beagle II and the redundant European Space Agency in general"
I think the death of 7 people(oh no forgot the next time) more important than the waste of a stupid probe to see if there was ever life on a planet that should be left alone, while we concentrate on this one.
But then you are a martian lover right.
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Jal that is interesting, is it because nissan had no prototype?
I'm one of those that think if GM et al do not use this tech straight away we should force them to hand over the designs so some one else can.(that will get them moving).
This is the way to solve the environmental problems and the reason nothing gets done up to now.
GM's old plant being re-errected in russia should be illegal. the exportation of wasteful tech should be a crime.
the shareing of useful solutions should be compulsory (payed for the same way as dolby etc get their cut).
thinking of busses and holiday activities, in Eugene they are all full this weekend , heading out to the oregon country fair.
There is no way to guarrantee bus riders than having them FREE.
someone once worked out that the reduction of damage to infrastructure in london and the loss of commerce due to traffic would pay for free transport in the city.
But then
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oh and marcus on anti semitism,
how come you never answer the point that this word should include the palistinian bashing from the likes of you.
That more than Jews are semites. that the decendents of Shem are a diverse people of diverse faith.
That the name of the oppression of the non jewish semites has been hijacked by the jewish people.
here is one thing I wish all jewish people would accept.
If the Jewish people around the world said publically that "Anti semitism extends to our brother and sisters of non jewish faith. it is not restricted to being anti Jew."
there would be a little ripple of love from those people.
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190. At 6:19pm on 13 Jul 2008, jacksforge wrote:
still waiting for that answer on the composition of the O rings.?
surely you can type it in and leave out the insults so we can all beniffit from your wisdom on this subject
couldn't do it eh?
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There's a Norwegian EV called "THINK city", which according to the company's website (http://www.think.no/) "will be sold this spring, initially in Norway, and followed by Denmark and Sweden later this year. We expect to produce about 1200 cars in 2008. In 2009 we will be targeting some of the larger European cities, starting with London, Paris, Milan and Amsterdam. Switzerland will be included in the beginning of 09 through partnerships with main utility companies in Switzerland."
But no mention about when it might be sold in the US.
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I went to the GM debunks the movie site , "which said the cars were not wanted" ,
the recent letters are of the we want to buy one now.
not lease BUY where are they.
can't find the link it was an interesting site, for it's attempts to confuse the subject.
but it seemed people were on to them.
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Ah I see the think seats two FULLSIZED adults,
does that include full sized americans?
no just a joke , back off.
the stuff on solar cells in the film was interesting.
he had what looked like roofing shingles but they werew solar panals.
why are they not hot right now, did they work where do you get them.
hell if I have to re roof the house why not go forward.
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Unfortunately, it's not a joke (about the seating capacity).
The solar cell company is here: http://www.uni-solar.com/
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THINK does have a 5 seater.
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jacksforge
I already replied to your inane comment about the extra O ring and farm equipment. And the issue was not at the temperature of liquid nitrogen, it had nothing to do with that, it was at the extrernal ambient air temperature. There was a clear disagreement over it between the scientist at Morton Thiokol who was later fired but was right and the Mission Control Project Manager who wanted the mission to go forward anyway who was wrong. The question was over only a few degrees that made all the difference. Learn the real facts for once.
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lol .I was referring to the fact that the average american need a bigger seat . because they tend to be a little plump.
Thanks for the solar link.
2 not great but will do for many.
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Here's an article about a guy that converted his hybrid Prius into a plugin: http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/may08/6174
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Jack: Since I anointed you as champion blogger when Ed took a break from the keyboard, I have to also place your name in contention for the blogger with the most rejections by our worthy moderators. I suggest that you temper your language, which I assume is at least one of the problems with your always erudite but badly-written offerings. But look out - Marcus is challenging for the role of champion rejection blogger.
By the way, Jack, do you REALLY want to go back to that sceptered isle?
How's the blacksmith business these days?
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jalvarezv
Taking a hard look at the minimal facts given reveals this is a science fair project, not a practical solution to the world's global warming problems or America's oil import problems. The cost of a recharge is 50 cents for 4.5 kwh. Given the miles the car can go on the batteries alone, about 15, that's a savings of about a third to a quarter of a gallon of gas between recharges at home, hardly enough to make this expensive investment worth while. Furthermore, recharging the batteries shifts global warming from burning gasoline in the engine to burning mostly coal (50% of all use electrical production) or gas or oil (probaby about another 20 to 25% of US electricity production) at the power plant which also produces CO2. That only marginally saves on imported oil. Like most pie in the sky solutions to the CO2 emissions problem, it's a curiousity not an engineering solution.
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nobel your maths is not as good as your spelling .and offencive ? no.
I said someone was stupid but then backed it up,(no slander there)
as to leaving I don't give a (whatever).
You want to pay me to leave I will.
if not shut the up and live with it.
the price is 10 million euros.
as to smithing really good. just completed an order for an international org in Brussels . Why.
if you wee smarter you would see that I am not writing during Business hours. But your not.
as to #203 ma another rambling nothing from the guy that rarely gets it right.
the analytical wonder boy.
Ma give up trying to look smart.
And noble go back to red penning. but don't waste time trying to cunvert mee.
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"199. At 7:58pm on 13 Jul 2008, MarcusAureliusII wrote:
Learn the real facts for once."
here you go again.
"Oh by the way, what is that material? The IUPAC (International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry) chemical designation for the material would be sufficient for me to identify it. "
don't you know this?
after all your argument was bases on the fact that I must be as thick as you because I do not know the chemical make up.but you seem to really have a problem here.
"there was a clear disagreement over it between the scientist at Morton Thiokol who was later fired but was right and the Mission Control Project Manager"
who is this scientist,YOU?No because this one would have been right.
the facts are :
the O ring failed american astronauts died, and Nasa decided to put extra O rings on.
despite your previous assertions .
As for farm equipment comments.
most farmers and many other know that brittle o rings do not work, they go buy a replacement.
yes the temperature will have made a difference.I never doubted that. and seeing as I have shown a greater understanding and ability to research this subject than you, you may also (if you were smart )know that I to have read that it was a cold morning etc.
THE O RINGS FAILED!
AN EXTRA O RING WAS ADDED!
AND YOU ARE STILL WRONG!
"And the issue was not at the temperature of liquid nitrogen, it had nothing to do with that, it was at the extrernal ambient air temperature"
yea sure never doubted it..why would liquid nitrogen be there anyway.
that is not what i said , if you want to prove to a school kid(like you)that a pliable substance can get brittle try dipping it in liquid nitrogen.watch it break.
not many substances go against this principle. colder generally makes things brittle.
There is NO WAY YOU CAN say with any truth that no extra o rings were needed.
7 more dead to prove your theory, that's what it would take. and i am sure NASA try harder than you to fix this and I am also sure they would not come to you for answers.
your conclusion that it is ONLY the temperature that was the problem ignores the evidence . there may have been other factors.
Go to the NASA site they will direct you to a third party site which I presume they would not do if they though the site were as bad as your analysis.
"In view of the findings, the Commission concluded that the cause of the Challenger accident was the failure of the pressure seal in the aft field joint of the right Solid Rocket Motor. The failure was due to a faulty design unacceptably sensitive to a number of factors. These factors were the effects of temperature, physical dimensions, the character of materials, the effects of reusability, processing, and the reaction of the joint to dynamic loading."
or bad engineering.
bad american engineering.
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Oh and you "cant say crap on the radio"
a song by the stiff little finders.
should be legal to say that.
does the word offend you. again you refer a post for the word crap,like a little school teacher with no real answers. try nobel FOR once talking about the subject or even a tangent to it. but don't just say I don't like that I am an english teacher.
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As for strikes by mods, probably because it is real easy to offend old school teachers with no idea of arguing a subject beyond the grammar and spelling.
The words I chose are quite deliberate and not as a result of temper.
I do not beat dogs for being stupid and I do not get upset with them or the situation.
As such I would not get angry over anything MA says. I just think that seeing as I do have time to kill I will write what I feel.
You are the one who is offended,
y my deliberate spelling mistakes angry enough to refer to the mods reasonable arguments.
Because I insulted "your" language.
Get real old man
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you found one reference to excrement in 206 and find that offensive ?
weel I fink yous a bowing owld cwodger
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I don't know why I waste my time answering you jf. OK, here's one more try.
The O rings were on the external tank. They were not brittle. They were inelastic. Big difference. Normally at higher temperatures they would have contracted against the tank to form a gas tight seal. But over night when the tank become cold the inelasticity of that material at lower temperature did not allow it to shrink with the tank. Therefore a vapor fuel leak developed at the joint which ultimately ignited the tank. The O ring was probably some form of neoprene but which one? There may be many hundreds or even thousands of them, all different. Only those who were familiar with the exact compound used for those O rings knew at what temperature the inelasticity of that material became a problem. A few degrees warmer and the material would likely have performed its function. At the lower temperature it would not have mattered if they had one or fifty O rings per joint, they would all have failed. BTW, I'm not doing any more research for you. The entire episode with the chemical engineer from Morton Thiokol was well documented on an episode of PBS's program NOVA and you can find a lot of it on the internet easily if you care to. And I am not a chemical engineer...although I probably could have become one with only a few more courses.
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you waste your time because you are a waste of time.
O RINGS FAILED SHUTTLE WENT BANG NASA PUT IN EXTRA O RINGS
American engineers cock up and kill people.
stop pretending you are a scientist. your not . or else your not a very good one.
" The O ring was probably some form of neoprene but which one? There may be many hundreds or even thousands of them, all different" so wise old dead guy.
WHAT YOU MEAN IS YOU DO NOT KNOW EITHER, wow neoprene.
"Normally at higher temperatures they would have contracted against the tank to form a gas tight seal. But over night when the tank become cold the inelasticity of that material at lower temperature did not allow it to shrink with the tank. Therefore a vapor fuel leak developed at the joint which ultimately ignited the tank"
Or could it have been inelasticity meant that the compoudX (for neither know the exact "rubber" they used) was not able to handle the movement caused by thevibrations during take off.
the fact that several nasa sites refer to the puffs of smoke at intervals that seem to coincide with these vibrations leads me to think that when they say that vibrations or ice build up OR one of several factors other than just what You can remember from Nova, may have been responsible ,
blahhh blahh fishcakes.
you try to simplify things too much.
BOOM
America makes mistakes in engineering
just as most do.
You can say all you like.
stop trying to prove your analysis is right.
When it is not.
Come up with ONE SOURCE to back it up.
BTW electric cars do work. and is it not better to try the experiment than just race around in Dino tech.
Well I suspect that would be appropriate.
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"And I am not a chemical engineer...although I probably could have become one with only a few more courses."
what like your medical career?
btw you did no research for me. you did none for yourself.
you are not capable of it.
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don't like being called old then stop being old
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mods i will keep posting it.
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Floridiannobody why do you insist on filling up more space with rejected comment notices.
what word or phrase do you you school bully object to.
come on mr ww2 hero(not). show your metal. say something or hide hitting the complaint button.
The next mod will not be the same.
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" The O ring was probably some form of neoprene but which one? There may be many hundreds or even thousands of them, all different" so wise old dead guy.
WHAT YOU MEAN IS YOU DO NOT KNOW EITHER, wow neoprene.
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"Normally at higher temperatures they would have contracted against the tank to form a gas tight seal. But over night when the tank become cold the inelasticity of that material at lower temperature did not allow it to shrink with the tank. Therefore a vapor fuel leak developed at the joint which ultimately ignited the tank"
Or could it have been inelasticity meant that the compoudX (for neither know the exact "rubber" they used) was not able to handle the movement caused by thevibrations during take off.
the fact that several nasa sites refer to the puffs of smoke at intervals that seem to coincide with these vibrations leads me to think that when they say that vibrations or ice build up OR one of several factors other than just what You can remember from Nova, may have been responsible ,
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blahhh blahh fishcakes.
you try to simplify things too much.
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BOOM
America makes mistakes in engineering
just as most do.
You can say all you like.
stop trying to prove your analysis is right.
When it is not.
Come up with ONE SOURCE to back it up
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BTW electric cars do work. and is it not better to try the experiment than just race around in Dino tech.
Well I suspect that would be appropriate.
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O RINGS FAILED SHUTTLE WENT BANG NASA PUT IN EXTRA O RINGS
American engineers make mistakes and kill people.
stop pretending you are a scientist. your not . or else your not a very good one.
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Notnoble got your red pen. why don't you say something.
old man
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come on smith some words. for a nasty old guy you are real quiet.
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meybee t reason im rubish a wighting cause I had a uslees techer lik yo.
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same comments but they are OK
mods get real.
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c u l8r
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Anti-Americanism remains high. Most non-Americans are simply hoping that Obama can win. However, if the American people are stupid enough to vote Republican for a third straight time anti-American will turn a corner. I guess I should say that I am an American who abslutely detests America. However, I have to a right to.
"BOTH countries have a clear intent for democracy, (with all it's shades of grey), peace and liberty." Sorry but I have to disagree with cmdr_biggles. Having lived in both countries, I see both of them attacking and removing democracy.
But what do I know. I'm just a poet.
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Hey, this is different than O rings and space buggys. Again with the economy:
And reading further, the world economy begs one to wonder how it will be brought about. Here Jean-Paul Sartre in 1948 gives us a clue:
"In the full enjoyment of the gifts of Heaven and the fruits of superior industry, economy, and virtue, every man is entitled to protection by law; but when the laws undertake to add to these natural and just advantages artificial distinctions, to grant titles, gratuities, and exclusive privileges, to make the rich richer and the potent more powerful, the humble members of society, the farmers, mechanics, and laborers who have neither the time nor the means of securing like favors to themselves, have a right to complain of the injustice of their government."
Hear, hear! Freedom in part is the privilege to complain, but how loudly a complaint? And at this point do you become a pawn for someone elses goal? The Frenchman continued here with:
"The [Communist] Party has one objective: the creation of a socialist economy; and one means: the utilization of the class struggle."
Aye, here we go, is not the United States in a class struggle?
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oh ed this sunday mod is a bit quick to remove I notice. every sunday.same stiffled debate.
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# 203 MarcusAureliusII: which project are you talking about? neither one of the vehicles on my two postings goes only 15miles on electric.
Also, you can get the electricity from solar, wind, and other renewable and clean sources (not coal).
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mayday mayday, london we have been hijacked,
One upset rabid zionist , a school teacher with a red pen and a mod that doesn't get it.
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Here a British Statesman gives insight to how our governments want to cure the economical woes of the world;
"War has been the most convenient pseudo-solution for the problems of twentieth-century capitalism. It provides the incentives to modernization and technological revolution which the market and the pursuit of profit do only fitfully and by accident, it makes the unthinkable (such as votes for women and the abolition of unemployment) not merely thinkable but practicable.... What is equally important, it can re-create communities of men and give a temporary sense to their lives by uniting them against foreigners and outsiders. This is an achievement beyond the power of the private enterprise economy ... when left to itself.
Eric J. Hobsbawm (b. 1917), British historian. Observer (London, May 26, 1968).
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242 we went through this before with him , but as you can see there is no depth to the wrongness of his ideas.
Ed put this very well once.
you can't teach an ignorant man.
I think he was quoting someone?
don't care it is right.
but thanks for trying.
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Magic,
Before ANY Arab army entered Palestine in 1948, Protp-Israeli terrorist militias (IRGUN, Stern Gang, etc.) had already seized considerable areas OUTSIDE the area designated for the "Jewish State" in UN Resolution 181, and had displaced half a million native Arab civilians as refugees.Look up Plan Dalet, from which the sort of operations envisaged: All this BEFORE the end of the British Mandate!
The full details of destroyed Palestinian villages and displaced populations, including dates are available here, and here, if you can stand the truth.As in almost every conflict in Palestine, The Israelis struck first!
Salaam, etc.
ed
[detailed 1948 chronology
removed for the benefit of moderators]
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Doug fully. class warfare is just around the corner.
I for one think the commies had some things right.
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"We know it is hard to accept emotionally, but in this case the Jewish people are in the wrong.We took most of Palestine by force from the Arabs and blamed the victims for resisting their dispossession. If you run into someone's car, for whatever reason, simple justice demands that you repair it. Our moral obligation to the Palestinian people is no less clear. It is time for all Jewish people of good conscience to make whatever amends are possible to the Palestinians in order to live up to the best part of the Jewish tradition - its ethical and moral basis."
~~Jews for Justice
bunch of anti semites:)
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By the last count there were 35 references to an 'O ring', none of which have any connection to what Justin had written. Couldn't we get back to some topic which has more relevance? And incidentally, disparaging someone because of their age is not only unkind, but out-of-place here. Remember everyone gets old and many times that means wiser. It's just as well we don't rely entirely on youthful opinions or the world would be in a worse state than it is in at present; for example, does anyone really want Bobby Jindal as next in line for the Presidency?
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247 ed
was all that back when the zionists were still concidered a terrorist organisation.
See that c nf
I notice the erronious one never did get around to answering the question of the ligitamacy of hijacking anti semite to mean anti jewish.
or the fact that america's clan KKK were formed to stop Jews and Catholics, and blacks.
just back to trying to prove another lie.
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Hey Derk, a poet your not, in this post anyway, and your not being American I am grateful for. Anti-Americanism does not run high, though I believe situations in the economy, the elections forthcoming and a geneneral media distain for the posititive are cause for a lot of banter and discent, but not anti-Americanism.
Son, even if we all were gainfully employed (I am not)and earning the big bucks, would we be better off? What society and type of government do you seek?
"A society in which everyone works is not necessarily a free society and may indeed be a slave society; on the other hand, a society in which there is widespread economic insecurity can turn freedom into a barren and vapid right for the millions of people."
Author: Roosevelt, Eleanor
For those like Derk, she is asking, 'What is freedom worth when you have nothing and no hope?' The answer is opportunity, all its worth is opportunity. MIGRATE, MUTATE ADAPT OR DIE, and be glad you free enough to do any of them.
"Economy, prudence, and a simple life are the sure masters of need, and will often accomplish that which, their opposites, with a fortune at hand, will fail to do. "
Clara Barton (1821?1912), U.S. Civil War nurse and founder of the American Red Cross. As quoted in Angel of the Battlefield, ch. 19, by Ishbel Ross (1956).
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Jack,
"The Zionists" were never considered a terrorist organisation, but there were several such organisations within the Zionist movement, notably IRGUN, the Stern Gang, and The proto-Israeli "defense" force Haganah, which cordinated closely with the terrorist groups during Plan Dalet.
Virtually all these folk became part of the Israeli establishment, and several became Prime Minister - the same folk who blew up the King David Hotel.
Many comments in these people's own words can be found in the pdf file which caused a prior post of mine to get modded and can be found at
http://home2.btconnect.com/tipiglen/Israel-History-X
(just add .pdf)
"The truth is out there"
Salaam, etc.
ed
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dc with all due respect . he brought it upon himself.
if he did not behave in a senile manner and act SO prudishly as to try to get the One letter moderated so it took howevermany tries to get the letter published, he would not have faced his old timer remarks.
if he wants to join in then fine . but if he wants to sit it out on the side lines like an old duffer. while screwing it up for others then let him put up with his chickens.
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yea never considered terrorist.
but then did the peaceful ones say no we are not taking this land. we want to win by right not might.
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jalvarezv
From the IEEE Spectrum article at
http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/may08/6174
"Plugging away at Prius"
"Hybrids Plus replaced the original 1.3-kWh NiMH battery pack in Sawyer?s new Prius with a custom-built 4.5-kWh pack. The new pack, which fits inside the exact same opening in the trunk floor that the old pack did, turns the car into a PHEV-15, the number indicating its all-electric range of 15 miles (24 km). But like most of the company?s 10 Prius customers to date, Sawyer opted for an extension pack with another 4.5 kWh, making the car a PHEV-30. That secondary pack, which is mounted unobtrusively under the cargo-area carpeting, occupies roughly 45 liters (less than 2 cubic feet) of space. While it reduces load space somewhat, that?s the tradeoff for 24 more electric kilometers."
So he gets 30 miles (misread it the first time) per battery charge on electric company energy which consists of 9KWh at about 9 cents per kWh or around 81 cents. As a Prius customarily gets about 45 to 60 miles per gallon, this saves about one half to two thirds of a gallon of gas which in round numbers is about two to three dollars per recharge at 4$ a gallon. In many parts of the country the price is about 14 cents per kWh so the savings would be somewhat less.
Given the high cost of this car, its small 67 HP engine, its dangerously small size when faced with possible collisions with larger vehicles which is nearly everything on American roads today, it is a bad investment. And what you gain in fuel economy, you lose in higher insurance rates as the risk of expensive repairs in case of an accident, severe injury and death increases. Bad idea.
jf 212
Actually I did quite well in chemical engineering courses. I just found electrical engineering more interesting. But I've put my knowledge of chemistry and chemical engineering to good use many times throughout my career. I've worked in several industries where that kowledge came in very handy.
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Hmmm..well back on topic of the blog.
Why is it that a black democrate is not allowed to have views that differ to another black democrate? This points more to the attitudes and emotion behind public figures rather than their political values.
In the UK for example, when there is a leadership race of a party, personal acts last about 5 seconds. The arguements quickly gravitate around the differences in political views and hence policy.
Why is the "race" card constantly used in the US? Who cares whether the candidate is black/brown/white/yellow/pink with blue spots. Get over it....listen to the policies not the colour.
..and just because candidates are from the same party, doesn't mean they agree with each other. However, during an election when a candidate has finally been chosen to lead the party, "normally" all party memebers gather behind said person to support and get them elected, rather than the alternative and allow the opposition to be elected.
Is it as simple as the coveting of 'power' is stronger in the US than elsewhere??
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and yet you still show a total lack of ability to read or comprehend.
amazing.
You sure spent a lot of time studying for someone that gets so much wrong. so now DC got you off the subject of o rings, do you want to apologise for the lie thatESA were so bad and Nasa was great for building the Hubble.
Seeing as it was built by both.
answer one thing without just making it up.
Oh and the word anti semitism.
Quite well, is that like your medical course.?
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kecsmer
Is it as simple as the coveting of 'power' is stronger in the US than elsewhere??
no it is they Covet more than anywhere else.
Oil
Power
Food
House size
energy bills
wives
husbands
others culture
others genes(monsanto and other bio tech)
guns.
just about anything they want it. if it is not theirs all the better.
as for race, america is the most accepting nation in the world.
they have led the world with waterboarding and hooded arrests.all dark people are Mouslems(as MA calls them) and as such should be preemptivly attacked.(just look at jail stats)
it is europe that has started all wars including the american civil war.
.nah serious race only became such a big deal after someone(hillEry) sought to make it so.
there was prejudice there , but not as much as after.
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"...Given the high cost of this car, its small 67 HP engine, its dangerously small size when faced with possible collisions with larger vehicles which is nearly everything on American roads today..."
Please define "dangerously small" and what is the criteria...i am not familiar with this automobile terminology
Is a BMW 121 small or dangerously small?
Is a Nissan sunny small or dangerously small?
Is a Harley Davidson dangerously small or just small?
What about a BMW 323, small or dangerously small or a VW Polo or Golf??
Would any of the above fair any better in a collision with an 18 wheeler or a bus??
I suspose one could argue speed of collsion is the key (the transfer of all that kinetic energy), but since an engine with 67HP hasn't the power to out-drag a snail, what would be your criteria to define the effects and causes of collision damage. Since size appears to be your criterion.
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jacksforge
Re Hubbel....which one got the optics wrong? We all know who went out to fix it. Neither looked very good when you consider that the thing sat around for a year and a half in a warehouse somewhere while there was a moratorium on shuttle launches yet nobody tested it to see if it worked. They didn't find out there was a design error which compromised its performance until it was in orbit. Frankly, I don't care about its history right now. YOU do the research if you actually care yourself. Maybe it will give you something productive to do for a change.
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Subcompact cars on European roads may be the norm but on American roads they are very small and usually highly vulnerable when in collisions with other cars. Even compact cars are small. I personally drive what would be considerred a medium sized car. It weights slightly under 4000 pounds. America roadway traffic usually consists of lots of trucks including double semi rigs and cars of all sizes including full size cars. If you want dimensions and wieghts of various sizes of American cars and foreign cars built for the American market, I suggest you look at the web sites of GM and Ford as well as Toyota, Honda, and Nissan. Also Lexus, Accura, and Infinity. Motorcycles on the American road are just asking for trouble. They always come out worst in an accident with just about any car. The typical accident rate for motor vehicle accidents in America is around 42,000 dead per year and about 2.5 million injured. This is what makes the noise over American casualties in Iraq so ludicrous by comparison. We lost about as many soldiers in 5 years of combat there (many of the 4000 probably died of non combat related causes) as we lose in about 5 weeks in car accidents here.
BTW, the engine in my car is 290 HP. It gets about 20 mpg on premium gas, 91 octane or higher is manditory for that engine.
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Well lets look at the facts behind the statements.
Fatalities, latest listing, 2004:
subcompact 3681
compact 6807
intermediate 4900
full 3603
motorcylce 3714
so your mid-size car would be either a compact or intermediate, wheel base 100~104 inches and 105~109 inches respectively.
Not much in it really when looking across the various types. Looking at the "full", wheel base 110 inches or greater, is the same as subcompact, ie a very small dangerous car is no different to a large SUV etc.
Therefore your aguement about small dangerous size cars has no foundation.
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I already did the research that is how you got prompted to do some of your own.
And you never care about anything once someone points out you were wrong. as for the optics. can't remember .i think it was a californian company.
go do some research.
who came up with the solution?
"Subcompact cars on European roads may be the norm but on American roads they are very small and usually highly vulnerable when in collisions with other cars. Even compact cars are small."
which is why you get such useless milage and have squandered so many of the worlds resources
"full size cars."you mean ones designed for lardy butts.
american roads are no less safe for motorbikes, they are always dangerous.
But bigger better and more wasteful. the american mantra. you even made a bike with milage like your IQ.
And american road deaths are down to american drivers. and frankly they are rubbish.
the american road system and signage is appaling and dangerous.really signs AFTER the junction?what the hell is the point in that.
now the UK is pretty bad on street signs, but driving here you will find things really bad.
And if the americans could handle ROUNDABOUTS(Oooh how scary) they would have a lot less fatal accidents and less cars chugging at 5 miles per gallon at all the stop lights.
the whole infrastructure is designed to waste.
GOOD OL educated people with degrees dreamt that up.
20 miles per gallon, big deal don't be so proud about that.
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Therefore your aguement about small dangerous size cars has no foundation.
that's his style.
ignorance at it's hieght.
america at it's finest.
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Another good thing about Jesse Jackson's intemperate quote.
Back when Al Smith, then Jack Kennedy, were having to confront anti-Catholic bias, the "fear" was that the White House would become an enclave of the papacy, as if all Catholics took marching orders from Vatican City, or thought alike.
I recently did a double-take when a friend of mine opined that you'd have to have Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson in the White House, too, if you elected Obama. As if the place was going to be a bunkhouse for blacks.
I can now assuage my friend's fears even more since Jesse proved my point (I told my friend the "Catholic history lesson") about the lack of a monolithic black consciousness, too.
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oh i should add that if one wishes to to add "light trucks", which includes pick-ups, (US fav) of no more than 10,000lbs, the figure is 12546.
So a not "dangerously small" vehicle like a pick up is about 3 times as dangerous as a subcompact.
I notice you have not supplied me with a definition of "dangerously small", nor have you realsied that your mid-sized (so i must be safe as its slow and heavy) car is also more dangerous than a subcompact.
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one blackman's fine
two now that's a conspiracy .
that is the attitude that was portrayed by some n this blog and some I have met in the real world.
they don't put it quite like that.PC rules.
no they say we'll I think he's go an agenda. did you see him with...then some other black guy.
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kecsmar, you have to look at the number of passenger miles driven in each before you can make a comparison. You've oversimplified the analysis. BTW, my car is classified as intermediate.
There's also something very wrong with your numbers. They only add up to about 22,000 but 33,000 motorists and passengers died in crashes that year. According to NHTSA (the National Highway Traffic and Safety Administration.)
http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/Main/index.aspx
NHTSA says 4000 motorcyclists died that year but compared to the passenger miles driven, the odds must be much higher than for passengers or motorists in cars and trucks.
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kescmar, my definition of dangerously small is compact and subcompact. To me they are too small. I walked away from a terrible car accident in 1990 in a car about the size and weight of the one I am driving now. Had I been in a smaller car, I would surely have died. Even in my car, I was lucky to have survived.
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So, all those cars that just drive around the corner never have crashes, where as those that drive across the country always do...hmmm, interesting conclusion based upon..?????
The actual total value for that year is 42836. There are many categories, i just provided the the ones relevant to your false argument, as more data will just confuse you and you'll meander of course again, as you have already.
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Kecsmar, the 42836 includes motorcycle drivers and pedestrians. Again, you have a badly flawed analysis. If many more passenger miles are driven in intermediate and larger cars than small cars, then each fatality in a small car demonstrates a far greater likelihood of an accident with dire consequences in one. For example, lets use your flawed numbers. It held that 6800 people died in compact cars while NHSTA said about 4000 died in motorcycle accidents. By your logic, driving a motorcycle is safer than riding in a compact car. But if say there were a hundred times as many passenger miles racked up in compact cars as on motorcycles, then the risk of dying on a motorcycle would be nearly 100 times as great as in a compact car. Do you see your mistake now?
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#163, dogsolitude, an amazing blog. Where
are you going next?
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#274
You are indeed one unique individual.
For some one who claims to be an engineer, you do not know how to interpret data nor be objective in doing so.
No. of cars = 136.43million
No. of m/c's = 5.77 million.
so using your figures
no of deaths per compact = 0.005
no of deaths per m/c = 0.07
for the hard to follow that is m/c are 140 times more dangerous. Despite all those miles you claim have an effect which again, do not.
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Please can we have a limit to the number of postings from ay one person on any one topic? I enjoy Justin's blogs. Some of the responses to Justin's blogs are very interesting. The childish bickering though is getting rather tedious. Set up your own blogs!
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i saw a lady in Bulgaria have the front of her car surgically removed by a big Bulgarian truck.
8 months pregnant , and no probs that were not solved with a nice sweet cuppa.
nothing from the windshield forward. she was in a fiet uno. as sub and compact as they get.
I think kecsmar might have you figured out mr erronious.
erronious the wrong.
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please do if so tellthe mods to not force one to split one letter into 10 becasue of one complainent.
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mods thank you fro putting it back in the one original letter.
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re: #281
Moderators -
I can find nothing in post #281 that could conceivably violate any of the rules as written, no matter how stringently interpreted.
An explanation (beyond the boilerplate in the rejection email) of the reason(s) for rejection would be greatly appreciated.
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come on mods let the truth out.
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Justin
Not sure about the car being used in crimes of passion but, if you are out on a saturday between 3 and 6pm beware. This day and time of day has the greatest number of car fatalities in the 24hour 7 day week!
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As fascinating as topics such as "killer cars", railroads, and O-rings are (I hate to admit it but MAII is right on that one), shouldn't we be discussing more relevant and pressing issues such as the ongoing collapse of our financial system, the need to bail out failing institutions with public funds, the huge debt that is destroying our economy and threatening our national security, and war expenditures that prevent us from implementing domestic improvements to guarantee a better future for our children?
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and the blog topic is way open this time, that way justin can go to the IoW. but does include killer cars railroads which given global warming will be a problem and is a problem for millions .
a problem that will take more than the UN deciding to get the US out of the security council, for always voting for what ever Israel wants.
The middle east is pretty easy to solve if they all back off. and that can happen when the big bullies back off.
america and Israel are the agressors here. and Israel should be compeled to accept inspectors in on their program.
then Iran might say OK.
As i said earlier when you are kicked out of your house and sent to live in a trailer home(sorry ausies) you will continue to throw rocks at the occupiers windows whenever you can.
especially when they have killed your wife,children and your cat and dog.
Global warming . an dthere are ways of mitigating our damage to the planet, on all fronts.
The american business model does not allow for it.Now is the gov said"next year we want 40 % better fuel efficiency. We could have it.Just.
i think we could retool the factories to build the newer vehicles and get going by the end of the year.
If american cars are so durable then why build any more to the OLD sceps.
to replace the old with newold.
A hemi in your truck.
no start producing those EV that erronious and other knock.
Most of the cost goes into building a car(enviromental cost) so why build any more.
Economics.
Well build the EV plant.
build the solar cell plants. there's the economic savior of the states.
There is more money to be made today with a change in direction than at any other stage in history.
the first to the big prize of solar cars that run without fuel will be VERY RICH, if we as a nation go that way.
the whole worlds infrastructure is changing and dosh is to be made.
But not by building more ATV and Hummers.
And not by listening to erronious arguments.
he even fooled you. back to comprehension lessons for you.
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you going up without you extra ring?
As for politics we will get the same reaction. despite the fact that a peace deal is being sought in Europe by the FRENCH no less.
A deal to bring peace to a bit of the middle east. and despite the fact that Iran has made only remarks towards Israel that refer to retaliation should Isreal attack, mnay in America(who's administration(actually only Condi)) seem to realise that for once they should sit it out.
all will be blamed on the turn coat coward euro's. which I am sick of.
hence that stupid argument. where i said thay put extra o rings and that helped.and that ESA does achieve things, just as Nasa does. and that accidents happens on both sides.I could have gone further to say that most scientists do not see it as a compitiition ,except at funding talk time.
Is that wrong?
Come on dominick.I never said O rings were the only cause.but A factor one nasa was smart enough to change.
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oh and the states and others seem to think that the military industrial complex is way more important than the global climate solving complex.
when we subsidise green jobs as much as war jobs we will start to make better headway.
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ADMINISTRATION PUTS SAVING PLANET ON BACK BURNER
U. S. NEWS
Bush: ?Significant Progress? on
Climate Change
Administration now acknowledges there's a climate.
Federal Judge Wants to Decide Cases of 35 Gitmo Prisoners Held for Years
Says they deserve speedy trial.
;-)
ed
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I don't think the Prius is "dangerously small" at all.
It is certainly bigger than the bicycle I use as my main means of transportation in town; a clean, healthy, and cheap transportation option in town.
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My comment on the O-rings simply attest to the fact that MAII's analysis was very accurate, it was not meant to be a criticism of anyone elses assertions.
As for Sarkozy's efforts, they should be applauded and used as a model by an Administration whose only diplomatic accomplishments were mediated by other nations. Unfortunately, it is too late for Condi to take crash courses in diplomacy in either France or China.
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as for danger .california mandates that "lifted or jacked up" vehicles should have their bumper at the"normal" height(obviously not exact wording)
oregon does not.
that law is to at least give people in smaller vehicles a better chance .
bounce them into whip lash rather than just crushing them under the monster truck.
289 Ed yea all talk at the g8 now well we'll wait.
I agree time to see the admin in jail.
on trial at the Hauge for crimes against humanity.
For reckless endangerment of the world.
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As alternatives go for in town transportation, Montreal is launching a public bike system:
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/06/montreal-canada-bike-share.php
http://www.engadget.com/2008/06/22/montreals-public-bike-system-uses-rfid-solar-power-and-tons-o/
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lets not go into it.
I got the same facts from nasa.
but like i said one of the factors was the rings.
zinc chromate , tube distortion etc. it is all there to read, but rings is too.
to get really pedantic
would you fly if they took the extra rings out?
and you missed the point . americans can screw up just as europeans.
beagle shuttle.hubble bubble another shuttle.
euro tech works as often as american tech, euro engineers are no worse than american engineers.
America is not the defining factor in excellence.
as to condi despite myself I think she is trying, from within this administration.Not well , but trying. a bit late ,but again that may be due to where she is and who she is with, but I think she does see the problems a little better than the rest of the admin.
an extra o ring MIGHT have helped the 7 up crew or some glue might have helped the columbia's crew.
And the rest is smoke
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Dogsolitude#163, Thank You!!
Fantastic blog, Just finished your post on the Plains. Well written.
I did the walk and hitchike thing accross the US back in 1972-3. I had issues to work out after the AirForce. It took nearly two years, of course spent more time by walking and worked for food and bed in almost every city I encountered.
I can relate on the lonely level as well as the sound of life,... god, I had forgotten. Your blog brought back a whole new desire for life and returned to me my perception of time.
I hope you don't mind but I put the link here and I've sent it to many friends and family.
I
http://dog-solitude.blogspot.com/
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One thing really bothers me about the insinuation that Americans are less worldly and therefore ignorant/insensitive to the world around them.
America is the melting pot. We have every nationality/religion living in the States, with very little segregation, and virtually no problems between different cultures.
With the exception of the forced migration of Native tribes, and the institution of Slavery, both of which EUROPEANS instituted in the American colonies, and were later abolished under American law, there has been very little conflict with the many different people who call the States home.
On the contrary, the worldly and sophisticated Europeans conduct a GENOCIDE or ethnic cleansing every few decades, which is appalling and beyond condemnation.
I am especially concerned about the rising tide of Anti-Israeli sentiment and Antisemitism that seems to be gaining momentum in Europe. As the saying goes, those who do not learn from their mistakes are doomed to repeat them.
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In reference to comment #296.
Many of the forced relocations were instituted by the US Government, but a 'Trail Of Tears' was not traveled by all Native Americans, that is a fact.
Many successful examples of co-existence of American immigrants and Native American tribes such as the Navajo are due to the extraordinary genius of Native American leaders such as Barboncito. It was he who shamed the US Government into returning the Navajo to their traditional homeland after a brief forced relocation. Stories were that battle hardened American cavalrymen shed tears of joy when the Navajo were allowed to go home.
Do not think that Native Americans must live on the fringes of society.
Navajo code talkers were crucial to the Allied Victory in World War Two.
Mohawk steelworkers built most of the bridges in the United States.
The classic American frame house, and the grid of streets by which they are built, is an Iroquois innovation, as were the Articles of Confederation.
Even Boston Baked Beans were here before the Europeans came.
And in my county, the board of supervisors recently accepted a five million dollar gift from the local Maidu tribe so that impoverished whites, blacks and Hispanics could have better police and fire protection.
You see, we're working it out.
Now if we could just get those European drug companies to stop lobbying our government...
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Faundair, your synopsis of the American culture and attempted European genocide or ethnic cleansing is interesting. I don't think antisemitism is the only situation to be concerned with.
As to repeating history, I don't doubt it is due. I wonder though, is the anti-jew perception caused by the muslim population increase in countries like the UK, France and others, or is there a bigger underlying movement.
I fear for the UK, after seeing the BBC news reports of the Muslims taking to the streets and openingly declaring desire for a Government takeover there as they did in Spain.
'Hate the Jews' as some do I don't get, nor do I understand the infadel dogma. What is missing, love? Is there help for the part of humanity that needs hate and distruction? The sad part is we as a world have so much to lose in another major war.
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#296. FaunaDair: "We have every nationality/religion living in the States, with very little segregation, and virtually no problems between different cultures." Apparently the writer lives in/on Walton's Mountain. S/he should remember that it was the United Kingdom which abolished slavery in 1833 for all of its empire and not until thirty years later (actually 1865) that the same happened in America. Had it not been for the Europeans, there would not have been the colonies and hence no USA.
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#288Jacksforge, You wrote:
"when we subsidise green jobs as much as war jobs we will start to make better headway"
A HEARTY AMEN TO THAT! But when will this happen?
The Goldwater Institute has filed a lawsuit to stop the Renewable Energy Standard and Tariff which requires regulated utilities in my state to get at least 15% of their power from renewable sources by 2025. Two power companies have already pledged to pay approximately half of the costs of a new solar electric system.
This could effectively halt solar development here. If I have this correctly, this means that a solar plant that was expected to go on line by 2011 or 2012 may not be completed.
This kind of thing makes me a little crazy! Why have we not developed solar energy to the degree we should have? Where are solar cells to power electric cars?
The only thing that could be concluded is that corporate greed will seek our continued servitude to that great god, OIL. When these corporate opportunists have succeed with their 'scorch the earth' policies, when they have successfully depleted all our natural resources and gotten everything they can wring out, I suppose they will take all their marbles(greed, money, power, corruption) and move to Mars. And we will be left with a dying earth.
Too depressing, I am not ready to give up!
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To return to the topic of "car as weapon." Of course it is a weapon, its use is effectively destroying the American economy and the environment!
There was a lot of discussion of car sizes and fatalities on the road. One big factor that contributes to fatality AND gas consumption is excessive speed. Why do we need 75mph speed limits on our highways? I say one very easy way to reduce gas consumption and decrease accidents is to reduce speed limits!
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The reverend Jackson IS 'old guard.' He has put his foot into his mouth on more than one occasion in the past. A lot of people don't care much for him. His remarks may have been the result of envy more than politics.
If that whole 'accidently open microphone' was used to get damaging remarks from him about Obama then it may just have backfired on Jackson and the network that aired it.
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Justin... In your book link, you describe the CNN as a "swivel-eyed cult" ... curious for a little more insight ....
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Justin... In your book link, you describe the CNN HQ as a "swivel-eyed cult" ... curious for a little more insight ....
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Justin: In your book link, you describe the CNN HQ as a "swivel-eyed cult" ... curious for a little more insight ....
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Justin: In your book link, you describe the CNN HQ as a "swivel-eyed cult" ... curious for a little more insight
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#304, blue-tongue, it probably means what we
Americans call "shifty,", i.e., not to be trusted,
but when Justin gets back I hope that he will
resolve the semantics of this term for us.
Who knows? It may be an entirely new concept
that I shall be able to apply to all sorts of
despicable organizations, which I encounter
on a daily basis.
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#302, aquagirl, the world is not a safe place
for politicians with cell phones, the internet,
and everybody watching. Even a simple
microphone lacks discretion these days!
Pretty soon, we'll actually know what they
are thinking.
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There's an EV in sale now in the U.S. the Tesla Roadster (www.teslamotors.com). So it seems like clean vehicles are on the way once again.
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The impetus for new inventions is usually linked to demand for a certain object or product. Unfortunately for us, oil supplies are still abundant, and even affordable. New sources of energy and higher efficiency will come about quickly as soon as oil reserves near depletion. Until then, there is simply too much money to be made to look for alternatives that would benefit consumers and the environment.
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The best thing to do with left and right wing radicals is to ignore them. His biggest failure is that he did not transition from the era when many people in the USA fought for civil rights to the self-reliance that all Americans support today.
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# 276
What kind of unit is m/c? Is this shorthand for miles/car? If so, which class of car, and where did you get this data?
Working from the data I can find :
Avg. Deaths/Vehicle-Miles-Travelled (D/VMT):
~1.44 10^-8
Avg. Deaths/Passenger-Miles-Travelled (D/PMT):
~0.66 10^-8
So to take in to consideration fatalities/PMT, as MAII rightly suggested, you should be getting figures on the order of 10^-8, not 10^-2 or 3. I admit that my numbers aren't the best (the second only takes into account fatalities on a certain highway) but they're not going to be wrong by a factor of 10^5 or 6. I highly doubt you did your math correctly. OTOH maybe you were not trying to estimate fatalities/PMT.
You should be, though.
Fatalities/PMT = %Passenger Fatalities/m
http://www.dot.gov/affairs/dot5307.htm
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policy/2006cpr/chap5.htm
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#296, FaunaDair,
From the NY Times, Sunday, 7/13/08:
"In 1970, two-thirds of the immigrants who lived in New York City were from European countries...By 2000, there were 170 foreign languages spoken in New York, according to the census.
More than 70% of the immigrants who lived in the city in 2000 had arrived over the previous 2 decades..."
To say that America is not worldly is nonsense. In fact, the world comes to us, at least in NY.
Americans have always lived among foreign-born people. They might not have travelled to certain countries, but they live among immigrants from all over the world.
And those immigrants are able to live here peacefully and freely.
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Fair on adrieainny Ny is a melting pot,
and maybe there are many languages spoken.
but officially accepted it's english and spanish.
As someone pointed out the dole forms in the UK are printed in many languages,(most is bnot all european, aisian languages and arabic and Urdu,
just to give them a chance.
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300 auqu .maybe it will happen. it MIGHT. but I doubt it.
sorry. all we can do is hope to reduce the amount spent and try to stop war
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Regarding passenger miles, I'll only observe that more passenger miles is directly linked to "Standard of living", and for all practical purpoese, the more time spent "in transit", and the more lifetime miles accumulated, the higher one's perceived standard of living
To be anti-Israel is not to be anti-semitic. Israel was created by the violent seizure of land and the violent dispossession and displacement of almost a million innocent natives who had nothing to do with the European crimes against the Jews. To be anti-Israel is to be pro-Justice..
FaunaDair,
Salaam/Shalom/Shanthi/Dorood/Peace
ed
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Yikes! Controversial New Yorker Cover Shows Muslim, Flag-Burning, Osama-Loving, Fist-Bumping Obama
See it
Whatever next?
;-)
ed
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kecsmar wrote:
Hmmm..well back on topic of the blog.
Why is it that a black democrate is not allowed to have views that differ to another black democrate? This points more to the attitudes and emotion behind public figures rather than their political values.
That could be one posiative of Obama canidacy. I personaly think he would be a disaster but not because of his multi ethnic background but his views and lack of resume
For too long race hucksters like Jackson and Sharton have been regarded are the arbiters.
Accomplished African americans like Powell, Rice, Thomas were scorned because they did not play the victim cards
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Jesse Jackson may still speak for a lot of people who are not Black but very disaffected. The current view that has brought us so much economic trouble is that every man/woman must look out for himself or herself and the government federal or otherwise has no responsiblity to its citizens other than to call their children out to fight OIL WARS. Remember, it always takes the Court Jester to tell the King the truth.
Trying not to love America is like trying not to love a beautiful whore. She is always charming and smells good, but she can never be faithful to her lovers or even at times to herself. She is so used to her pimp selling her wares of sensual culture until when it is should back to her she seldom recognizes it, ego: The Beatles.
Politics and old politicans with their inflated egos is what we love best. A Politician is a politican--is a politician.
Have a good vacation!
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, Ed Iglehart wrote:
To be anti-Israel is to be pro-Justice.
No to be Anti Israel and support the Palestinians is to be pro terrorist. Since the Palestinians refuse to accept responsibility for electing a known terrorist group they deserve no pity.
It's time for the world to move and the gulf states can start by making peace with Israel. This will force the Palestinians to realize they can push Israel into the sea.
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The entries from European contributors on this thread have once again confirmed everything that I believe to be true about Europeans. Irrational hatred of America. Irrational hatred of Israel and Jews. Inability to think clearly. Unwillingness to face facts and deal with them fairly and rationally. That's just a smattering. And this is not merely typical of Europe but probably among the better of European society.
BTW Kescmar, the math needed to solve the problem regarding the relative risk of being in a fatal automobile accident given the data about the number of car craashes for different size automobiles and the relevance of the number of passenger miles driven in each size class of automobile is taught in all American secondary school curricula by the ninth grade, about 13 years old whether the ultimate goal is an Academic, Commercial, or General High School diploma. That those educated in Britain not only cannot solve this simple straightforward math problem but don't even understand the principles behind it tells volumes about what a sorry state their education system is in. And I thought we here in the US had problems.
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#318, MagicKirin:
"Accomplished African americans like Powell, Rice, Thomas were scorned because they did not play the victim cards"
African-Americans scorn republicans.
Jesse Jackson didn't like hearing about the responsibility of fatherhood. Not surprised he, of all people, would have a problem with that.
What I heard from him is his insistence that the government should be held responsible not individuals. This is a terribly flawed position.
#314, Jacksforge:
"Fair on adrieainny Ny is a melting pot,
and maybe there are many languages spoken. but officially accepted it's english and spanish."
No "maybe" about it. It's a melting pot, because there are people from all over the world -- regardless of our "official" language.
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#320, MagicKirin:
"It's time for the world to move and the gulf states can start by making peace with Israel."
It's time for the world to start demanding of itself what it demands of the US.
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Can't educate pork!
subcompact 3681
compact 6807
intermediate 4900
full 3603
motorcycle 3714
light trucks 12546
so, let me see....what number is greater than 3681, the fatalities for small compact cars, if any. Can you tell children, which it is yet..????
compact is greater, so is intermediate and behold light trucks (which inc pick-up/SUVs).
Hmmm..something wrong with the numbers, it must be a Govt. conspiracy, where is Area 51 or Stargate command when you need it???
...small compact cars on actual evidence states these have less fatalities than your large intermediate and 3 times less than your US fav the pick-up/SUV.
So lets also look at the number of miles:
Total rural 1,070,248million miles
Total urban 1,892,265 million miles
Total fatalities per 100m miles
rural = 2.31
urban 0.91
so those with smaller cars on low mileage journeys, such as around town in a compact, are 2.5 times less likely to have a fatality.
Those on longer routes and country side, favoured vehicle such as pick-ups/SUVs, have a higher probability for a fatal crash.
So, i just wonder what it is you have been taught, since these are the facts (courtesy of US Dept. Transport), not pure invention of a rambling mind.
So, now back on track with Justin's topic. Maybe all those intermediate and pick-up/SUVs will be used less owing to higher fuel costs and their significantly lower fuel consumption than subcompacts.
Will the stats for year end 2008 reflect this trend in an increase in deaths?
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Kescmar, you are dense as cement. You don't have all the numbers you need to solve the problem. That's the first thing you should see right off the bat. Now I'll make some up. If you don't get the principle of how to solve this problem after this...you're hopeless.
3681 sub compacts were driven one mile each and had 3681 fatal crashes. 6807 compact cars were driven one million miles each and had 6807 fatal crashes. If you were getting into one of these cars for a lift, which kind has the better chance of getting you to your destination alive? Don't answer right away. Take a week or two to think about it. Take a month or a year. Take until the year 2028, 3681 or 6807 for all I care.
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#321 MAII "Irrational hatred of America. Irrational hatred of Israel and Jews." You wouldn't happen to be one of God's Chosen People would you? If so, that might explain, but not excuse, your continued denunciation of all people and things European. Since you have not mingled with the best of European Society for 34 years, if ever, how can you judge it - perhaps you also read The Tatler, Hello! and Country Life? Or perhaps it's the National Enquirer and The Globe?
Since you criticise British teaching standards, you should know that you cannot 'teach in curricula' as you state; whether it's taught in American schools I do not know.
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Since by your very twisted illogical maths, based upon an assumption not a fact (like the US Dept. figures i obtained), if a pick-up/SUV were driven for 1 mile you would get 12546 deaths. This is using your maths.....
so you are now also finally agreeing that subcompacts, or dangerously small cars as you call them are now safer than your average pick-up/SUV. Thank you :)
....oh and not forgetting your very own intermediate car with its higher horse power and 20mpg, is also more dangerous, maybe you should walk home from the shops!
So, which car would you drive to a lift, the dangerously small subcompact, or your intermediate or the nations favourite a SUV/pick-up?
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#313, AndreainNY
Thanks for the reference! I feel that it supports my point perfectly!
And no, JacksForge, I don't live on Walton Mountain!! Walton Mountain is comprised of one race, religion and culture: which is exactly the opposite of the point I was trying to make!
By the way, I am an American who also despises McDonald's, Wal-Mart and capitalism. I happen to think that the US vs Europe thing is really silly. I just believe that it's valid to point out the fact that as a society we get along better than the Europeans, who are frequently killing each other in the name of ethnic cleansing.
This is probably one of the reasons why Israel has surpassed all of the European nations to become our greatest ally.
And no, I'm not Jewish either.
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#328 FaunaDair: "we get along better than the Europeans, who are frequently killing each other in the name of ethnic cleansing." Sounds to me like you're related to MarcusAureliusII.
"Israel has surpassed all of the European nations to become our greatest ally." Where were they when Iraq was invaded? It was Britain, Australia and Poland who were, rightly or wrongly, part of the "coalition of the willing" - nations who supported the United States. Israel was studiously absent and did not send one solitary soldier later. If, for example, Tonga could send some of her Royal Marines, surely "our greatest ally" could have spared a couple of their own military. Doesn't say much for loyalty, does it?
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fuanadum whats a "Walton Mountain"?
go back and re read.
329 I agree with the gist of "greatest ally"
being silly but to be fair Israel going in would have started ww3 for sure.
I would say that a nation that does nothing when so much is at stake.
If you are going to steal a land you have no right to expect people to be happy about it.
Israel's refusal to fight only for peace, by being peaceful has brought death to america ,and the loss of freedoms in the states.
terrorist target the US because it supports a state that continually tries to terrorist all in its area.
that nation is not friend of mine.
If it were my buddy starting fight for me to finish I would take no time to tell him to shut up or I would hit him.
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322 adraininny'
No "maybe" about it. It's a melting pot, because there are people from all over the world -- regardless of our "official" language.
You should also try to accept that there are really a lot of melting pots in the world.
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Walton Mountain is comprised of one race, religion and culture:
,
wow you should get out of the city.
there are plenty of very white towns out there.
you get into them hills love.
they have the same in europe. I know.
there are a lot of indians that died at the AMERICAN hands, after independsdance is when they were murdered wholescale.
peaceful nation .my donkey
seen the picture of the burning napalmed children.
from vietnam.
the mushroom cloud ?
the civil war wow there's one you all seem to forget.
shute that was murderous.
you waited to help in ww2 while selling to the germans for years, oh moral saviours of the world, until someone attacked you.
All that in one third of the time the pub i used to drink in has been standing.
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now don't get me wrong. there are many many probably a majority of Israeli's that think the present state is wrong. that the palistinians are treated in a criminal manner.
Ed has come up with plenty of links to Israeli and Jewish organisations that try to stop the army killings and the aipac and hardliner backed policies.
It was not an arab that killed the beloved peace maker of Israel. it was a hard line zionist.
and probably one supported or encouraged by some crazy american christian that thinks the RAPTURE is some how connected to sex and fun.
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A great many people in Britain have never been anti-USA at all. The problem is more to do with the BBC, who have shown a profoundly anti-American bias in the past 20 years, and like to pretend that everyone else feels the same.
Why the BBC, a supposedly objective news organisation, chose to adopt an anti-American policy is something of a mystery to me.
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Justin,
A suggestion that?s bound to be a win-win. When you come back from your holidays why not initiate a blog thread as follows
?Chose one of ; your nation/continent of birth, your nation/continent of current residency, your nation of citizenship, then argue for your chosen nation/continent on one or both of the following points
1. The people who, between the years 1800 and 2000, lived on the geographical area corresponding to your chosen nation/continent committed atrocities that were slightly less terrible/horrific/bloodthirsty than those committed by other bloggers chosen nation/continent.
2. The people who, between the years 1800 and 2000, lived on the geographical area corresponding to your chosen nation/continent first invented/discovered machinery/principles that were superior to those invented/discovered by other bloggers chosen nation/continent.
Feel free to illustrate your argument with spurious/erroneous/just plain daft ?facts? and to be as insulting as moderation will allow to fellow bloggers.?
That will keep "Commodus II" and friends busy for months while you can carry on covering the issues of the day and write your book in peace.
You're all doing very well !!
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David_Cunard #326
Game, set, and match. Case closed.
Were I in the government of Israel making up the list of those who would "go down" with Israel if my country ever faced its last day of existance, I'd include all of its ancient enemies not just those who participated in but stood by indifferently as the worst human atrocity ever committed occurred right in their midst. And even here in America, if I have to face the end of the world as a result of nuclear war in the Middle East, there will be ironic satisfaction realizing in the waning days that with the end of the human species, it will be the result of an unwillingness among them to repress those whose worst instincts ultimately brought it about. Like a cancer on humanity, Europe continues to sap us all of any chance to evolve above the mess we find ourselves in. No need to go back and visit Europe again, threads like this show that if anything has changed deep within the heart and mind of Europe since I was there last, it is clearly for the worse.
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Marcus the Great,
Interesting, and yet no calculation provided. Why don't you show us how easy it is?And,To which "human atrocity" are you referring? And where on that scale do you rate al Nakba?
andSalaam, etc.
ed
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Ed Iglehart
Having been educated in Britain, I wouldn't expect you to understand the simple math example I gave any more than Kescmar did. In that example, if you were going for a one mile ride in a sub compact, your chances of being killed would be 100%. If it were a one mile ride in a compact car, your chances would be one in a million. That's why I chose numbers that would make the answer so easy to arrive at and understand. But I'm still not surprised you didn't get it either. Maybe it's something in Britain's water or food supply. Some new undiscovered form of BSE that turn parts human brains to mush, the part that thinks.
I'm not in the least surprised either that you would defend the right of Adolf Hitler to murder six million Jews as legal. After all, Europe is about endless tomes of laws to justify anything. Just look at the EU Constitution. It's a prescription for the enslavement of all of Europe. I was sorry it didn't pass. But the kind of minds that created it will stop at nothing to enact it in one form or another no matter how long it takes. As a continent which has no history of democracy, it hardly surprises me that tens of millions if not hundreds of millions would enthusiastically endorse signing a document they can't even read let alone understand which cedes their governance to an unaccountable dictatorship. Two thousand years of history doesn't allow a culture to change overnight. It's only been sixty three years since the end of WWII and the mentality that allowed it, barely a second in time by European standards. One more proof that Europe is an inferior civilization compared to America. And the difference is not small and it is in fact growing wider.
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Cindy McCain: "In Arizona The Only Way To Get Around The State Is By Small Private Plane"
;-)ed
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MA2, I must admit I'm really intrigued...
Why, when you have such an obviously poor opinion of all things European (as expressed pretty consistently throughout this thread), do you chose as your nom de plume an Italian, who wrote his most significant work in Greek, whilst living in Serbia? And, all at a time about 1500 years before America was 'discovered' by Europeans?
By the way, here's a quote from the REAL Marcus Aurelius
"If thou art pained by any external thing, it is not this that disturbs thee, but thy own judgment about it. And it is in thy power to wipe out this judgment now".
Seems pertinent to me...
Cheers - Glo
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Marcus Erronius,
Factual mis-statements:
1. I was educated in the good old USA, and got straight As in mathematics right through Differential calculus at University. (Integral Calculus was my first ever "C") ;-(.
2. I didn't "defend" any supposed right of Herr Hitler, but simply quoted a Jewish humanitarian who noted similarities between Hitler's methods and those of Israel.
With regard to your assertion that smaller vehicles are likely to produce more fatalities (per passenger mile) than others, I await your provision of any statistical data to support what, in the absence of such data, must remain simply an assertion.
No change there, since simple unsupported (and often factually inaccurate, as noted above) assertions constitute the bulk of your output here.
Salaam, etc.
ed
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Erronious,,
again you prove your a senile person with no memory or ability to read.
You have been trading comments with Ed for some time now yet you seem to think he was educated in the UK.
now how can that be. when he left the US to come to the UK after working in the US in his field of expertise(something you claim but never prove).
Keep your facts straight.
or are you hoping for another person to pick up the fag end of the discussion so that they may agree with you. hoping they will see the smoke not the fire?
And as for MILES TRAVELED. on what roads?
How would you (as a expert in math:) include in your calculations the effects of traffic density and congestion or environmental hazards or national driving habits.
Though back to the attack of the killer car.
In the UK they drive(when there are no cameras) like race drivers. last I was there even with cameras there were people zipping by me as I maintained position in the traffic at 85 mph. then they have all those roundabouts , yet do they have more dangerous roads ?are there as pmany fatalities.
(taking population density and traffic into account+ any other factors (which is something all engineers should know)
Death tolls on roads differ between countries. does this difference reflect the car size or the driving habits.
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320. At 00:46am on 15 Jul 2008, MagicKirin wrote:
, Ed Iglehart wrote:
To be anti-Israel is to be pro-Justice.
No to be Anti Israel and support the Palestinians is to be pro terrorist. Since the Palestinians refuse to accept responsibility for electing a known terrorist group they deserve no pity.
It's time for the world to move and the gulf states can start by making peace with Israel. This will force the Palestinians to realize they can push Israel into the sea.
AMERICA the terrorist state but thanks to some euro support now a "free country"
Until the palistinians have a state they are defined as terrorist.
until the zionists were a state they were to.
until america was a state they were to,thought in those days they were just called revolutionaries.
HIS story seems to have a few people who disliked what was going on and tried to change it. were they all terrorists.
ghani was right but the palistinians would have a hard time protesting peacefully.
take the barriers down let them in then let them protest in a peaceful manner.
that will never happen.
Jesus was a terrorist.
so are tree huggers.(officially)
and you probably think some of us are terrorist.
but your wrong as usual.
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Nor has he suggest to raise the temperature of the AC so that so much fuel will not be wasted on people wear sweaters to keep warm in freezing rooms.
a post from the "bitter bus" from marygrav
spot on mary.
americans take temperature to new levels.
in summer you have to carry sweaters because the ac is so strong.
in the winter you've got to strip all the layers off because they turn the heat up to rediculass levels.
not only is it wasteful it is unhealthy and annoying.
then they sell anti eye drying medicine and anti nose drying medicine to combat what could be prevented by just using less energy.
then if they are trying to bring on the rapture i suppose that would be greta (bring it on quicker).
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Jack,
They tried for years, but Euro-guilt for the Holocaust and the resulting unconditional support for Israel rendered them and their plight virtually invisible. They had to start hijacking planes to get attention.The establishment of Israel as a place for the Jews to go was very convenient for the Europeans and Americans who were thus relieved of having to accommodate them. The voting on the UN partition resolution - 181 tells the taleSo much for local self-determination of indigenous peoples! It was noted at the time that the South American votes (and others) were the result of severe American arm-twisting. The Arab world didn't have a chance.
Salaam/Shalom/Shanthi/Dorood/Peace
ed
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JacksForge: Since you bring up both slavery and the American Civil War, maybe you would like to explain why the British under Gladstone supported the Confederacy during the Civil War? Even though they were anti-slavery?
Although the British did not get involved as a military presence a number of English subjects did remove themselves to the USA/CSA to fight on behalf of the southern states.
I suspect that there has been anti american sentiment in Britain since the war of Independence!
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#339Edinglehart
I live in Arizona and have never felt the need for a plane. My two feet, a bike, a car and,at one time, a horse get me wherever I want to go. I must be missing something. Better start saving my pennies so I can fly. Probably when pigs also fly!
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Kecsmar / Ed Iglehart -
Unlike MarcusAureliusII, you two appear to be sane. But there's no point fighting a losing mathematical battle. MarcusAureliusII is correct about the numbers and he knows it, and continuing to disagree with him on this issue just boosts his confidence and derails the discussion.
Kecsmar, you never post where you get your numbers from, so it is difficult to figure out exactly what you are computing. It looks like you found numbers for the total miles of rural and urban roads in the U.S. That is clearly irrelevant to the discussion. MAII quite clearly suggested computing deaths/passenger-miles-TRAVELLED.
You see, there are more trucks and SUVs (i.e. more truck passengers) in the U.S. then there are sub-compacts (sadly). And trucks / SUVs tend to travel for longer distances (esp. truckers, who you call lorry drivers?). So it is expected the the absolute number of fatalities in trucks / SUVs is greater, they are simply on the road in greater numbers and longer amounts of time.
So, instead of comparing absolute numbers, we compare percentages. The real question is what is the chance (on average) that a passenger in a certain class of vehicle will be killed during 1 mile of travel. To calculate this, you need two pieces of data for that vehicle class:
1) Total number of fatalities in wrecks involving said vehicle class in a given year. This is simply a number in units of passengers-deceased (not to strip away the horror of this unnecessary loss).
2) The total number of miles travelled by all passengers in said vehicle class in a given year. Note that this is equal to the average number of miles travelled by each passenger times the total number of passengers, so you can say that its units of passengers-miles, or PMT.
Find the value Fataltites/PMT by dividing quantity 1) by quantity 2). You'll get a number with unit passengers-deceased / (passengers-(miles-travelled)). A little rearrangement shows that this unit is equivalent to (passengers-deceased/passengers) / miles, or %passengers who die per mile travelled. This is the appropriate quantity to study.
Kecsmar - It tooks like you simply took the number of fatalities and divided it by the total miles of road in the U.S. Thats not what MAII meant and obviously doesn't affect the ranking of fatalities by vehicle class.
I've laid it out here as clearly as I can, now hopefully the discussion can return to the topic.
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#336 MarcusAureliusII "I'd include all of its ancient enemies not just those who participated in but stood by indifferently as the worst human atrocity ever committed occurred right in their midst." I'm assuming that you refer to what has become known as "the Holocaust". I don't know what the rest of Europe was supposed to do in the late 1930s; hindsight is a wonderful thing. And if every nation which "stood by" then the United States must be included since it has no better record than its allies abroad.
#338. Europe is "a continent which has no history of democracy". I don't think the Greeks would agree with that; where exactly do you think Democracy originated? It certainly wasn't in north America.
"Europe is an inferior civilization compared to America." Now that sounds remarkably Hitlerian - you cannot possibly judge by reading or by watching television news. Your posts are becoming increasingly irrational - the European Constitution was dismissed and likewise the Lisbon Treaty. Those voters who have had the opportunity to vote on the two have rejected them, so it would appear that they have read - and understood - the provisions therein.
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Unlike MarcusAureliusII, you two appear to be sane. "
Thanks ;-)
"But there's no point fighting a losing mathematical battle. MarcusAureliusII is correct about the numbers and he knows it"
He has provided no numbers, simply an assertion that small vehicles are more dangerous. If he or anyone can provide the passenger-miles breakdown by vehicle class, then that part of the question can be addressed. Otherwise, we only have an assertion, and that from an unreliable source. Some interesting conclusions from a complex study:
"1. Midsize and Large Cars. The safest midsize and large cars (Avalon, Camry, and Accord) are as safe as the safest SUV (Suburban); average midsize and large cars are just as safe as the average SUV. However, SUVs impose a greater risk on drivers of other vehicles than do all types of cars. The combined risk of the average SUV (129) is about 30% higher than that for the average large car (100) and 25% higher than that for the average midsize car (105), while the safest SUV (Suburban, 111) has at least a 40% higher combined risk than the three safest midsize and large cars (Avalon, 63; Camry, 72; and Accord, 79). 2. Subcompact and Compact Cars. The safest subcompact (Civic and Jetta) and compact (626 and Altima) car models are as safe to their drivers as the average SUV (see Figures 2 and 3, and Table A5 in the appendix). When one considers the combined risk, including those killed in the other vehicle in two-vehicle crashes, then the safest subcompact and compact models are actually safer than the average SUV. Moreover, the combined risk for the average subcompact or compact car (147 and 136, respectively) is only slightly higher than that for the average SUV (129)."
Yes, you'll need the whole paper to make sense of it: [Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator] xx ed
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My my my!! So many different topics being discussed on here! But anyway, back to the topic at hand.
Justin reveals that ??Writing a
book about the place. A book that suggests that an affection for America is not necessarily a bad thing to have, is now a project seen as only faintly eccentric, indeed close to being acceptable in polite society.?
And there you have it people!!! There it is in black and white!!! So for all those Brits who say, ??Its not American culture, or the American people we hate, its your president! Its your government!?, this statement and these observations completely disprove and discredit such feelings!!! ?A book that suggests that an affection for America is not (necessarily) a bad thing to have!? An affection for America?, meaning the people, culture, lifestyle, what have you!! Not the president! Not the government, or the administration, or even the congress!!! Come to think of it, I can?t believe I actually believed for a while all those asertions from foreigners that ?Its not the people/culture, it?s the leadership, stupid!!!? For how, if a hatred for the president/government (both of which are wholey justifiable and shared by the overwhelming majority of Americans!!), does one explain the absolutely repulsive awful stereotypes of the average American citizen who has no influence on their government aside from election season whatsoever? Not worldly, uncultured, loud, brash, ignorant, aragant, rude, gun toteing, idiotic, fat?I could go on and on!! I mean lets be honest for a minute here people!! Its not as if the average British citizen, Frenchman, Italian, German, Canadian, Mexican, Chinese citizen, Australian has any impact on the day to day workings of their government either!! So why are Americans hated for their government more than other nationalities? My only conclusion, therefore, is that the above mentioned stereotypes of Americans are not due to their government at all!! Rather they just are. Why? Sure there are mean, uncultured, ileducated, ignorant, aragant, stupid, Americans!!! But this can/should also be said of all nationalities everywhere!!!! And that is what is so very alarming about Justin's revelation!!! I mean sure the statistics point to the average British citizen being better educated than the average American, but then again the UK is 1/5 the population of the US, leaveing the government less to worry about in terms of educating its citizens!!! And its not as if the average British person, who finds it at best eccentric, and at worst gastly and unexceptable to have an even mild ?affection? for America, can?t, if they were honest with themselves, admit that there isn?t one British citizen who isn?t just as aragant, ignorant, unworldly, uncultured, loud, or stupid as their American counterpart!!!! So why all the gratuitous name calling?!!! Why?
You know what the saddest part of all this is? I?m afraid to go abroad! Everyone?s bigotry has scared me away from it!
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Ed Iglehart -
Until the palistinians have a state they are defined as terrorist.
until the zionists were a state they were to.
Here is the difference the Palestinians terrorists will bomb or shoot missles indiscriminatly and if they hit a fellow Palestinian they wouldn't care.
Second there is a Palestinian State it's called Jordan.
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'FaunaDair,
This is probably one of the reasons why Israel has surpassed all of the European nations to become our greatest ally.'
I think it is actually the other way around: the United States of America is the greatest ally of Israel.
'By the way, I am an American who also despises McDonald's, Wal-Mart and capitalism. I happen to think that the US vs Europe thing is really silly. I just believe that it's valid to point out the fact that as a society we get along better than the Europeans, who are frequently killing each other in the name of ethnic cleansing.'
Europe's last ethnic cleansing was the Third Balkan War (1991-1999) but its seems to me Americans are champions of ethnic cleansing to: many Native Americans were forced to leave their lands and were put into reservations. We're al human and
unfortunately ethnic cleansing is the 'human way' to 'protect' the 'own people' in bad times. This is a terrible fact but unfortunately a fact: humans will never be able to live in peace and will never stop killing each other.
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Justin, in the book celler interview, you argued that: ?To dismiss the country as just a great monolith full of fat people, religious nutters and guns is to be staggeringly ignorant about the modern world. If you don?t know what makes America tick, you are dismissing in the widest cultural terms the driving force of most of the last century, and I think this one."
Yes, too true and thank you very much for your defence! But however, if this didn't hold true, you know why else it is considered by most rational people (I should hope) wrong to apply such asumptions/stereo types? Because it is mean!! Simple as that!! Forget the fact that we were/are the "driving force of the 20/21 centuries!!" If we weren't it would still be rude!! Think about it! If these things were said about any other nationality, they would be deamed as racest and offensive!! So why is it ok to say them about Americans?
O, and as a previous poster has requested, I too would love to know the deffinition of "swivel-eyed cult" refering to CNN. Nothing with "cult" in its description can be good in most's opinion I wager, so why do you dislike CNN so? I'm just curious. You described its headcowrders in Atlanta as "imposing". What do you mean by that? Are you in a fude with Anderson Cuper? I remember you called him dishonest some months back on your blog because you thought that because American journalists made more money than British ones (an asertion which hasn't yet been proven in general by the way), that somehow that makes them less honest in their reporting. Or is it something bigger and more serious?
Thanks so much!
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re: #352 MagicKirin
Your credibility would be greatly enhanced if you read some actual history instead of the tired old Zionist propaganda.
There is an Israeli state: it is clearly defined in the UN partition plan of 1948. All other areas of the former British Mandate are emphatically not part of Israel.
Among the first acts of the Israelis following their declaration of independence was trying to secure territory outside of these defined boundaries. The expansion of Israel since that time has been accomplished via extermination (search Deir Yassin, among hundreds of other examples), terrorism, ethnic cleansing, dispossession, displacement, and subjugation of the indigenous population. Every square inch outside of the 1948 boundary that Israel currently claims is illegally acquired territory, by every standard of international law.
While the creation of Israel went against the principles of the UN charter of allowing self-determination of indigenous peoples, it is a tragic error that the Palestinians and the rest of the Middle East have to accept. What they have every right to resist with all means at their disposal is the Israeli expansion via military conquest since 1948.
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Felix Dare (#19) writes, '"Justin, after reading successive plugs for the new book I have finally given in and pre-ordered it from Amazon - I look forward to reading it. May I have a sweetie as a reward?"
Of course you may!! And you may also have one for graduating junior high!! Congradulations!! And the award for the "most underhanded, cunning and insulting disguised comment" goes to...
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MAII,
I would be interested, if you know how many people died in the germany death camps?
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wonketydonkety (#10) explains that: "For you see, in polite society we have all learned to smile sweetly when presented with yet another fluffy jumper for Christmas."
And this alone only surves to further back up my post at #351!! You see Justin, you think you're making head way. You think that people are actually beginning to rethink their previous positions toward America, and be willing to take another look at it and perhaps try and look at things through the average American citizen's eyes and give it another chance. But no no no!! Be warned, do not fall into this trap!!! What those people are really doing is grinning and baring it until the publisity surrounding your book fades, so they can just leave it on the shelves in hopes that the sales will be so bad that shops will be forced to pull it from them, or still worss, buy a copy and burn it!!!
Don't ever think that anyone will ever think positively about anything regarding politics/America in the United Kingdom...trust me, its a waste of time!!!!
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Actually my post at #358 was a bit harsh, so what I ment was people in general...obviously not all, as some of the posts on this thread demonstrate. It is sad, though, the alarming ignorance about America/Americans which often describes them as..."ignorant!"
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While not wanting to re-open the slavery debate (we'd be here for months!!!!) I would like to correct the assertion made by FaunaDair post 346 that "the British under Gladstone supported the Confederacy during the Civil War? Even though they were anti-slavery?"
1. Gladstone did not become Prime Minister until December 1868 i.e. AFTER the US civil war had ended. The Prime Minister during the period of the US civil war was Lord Palmerston.
2. Britain remained neutral during the US civil war.
3. Since during the US civil war slavery was legal in both the Union and the Confederacy it would have been impossible for Britain to side with a free combatant.
Hope that clears things up.
You're all doing very well!!
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peterm99 wrote:
re: #352 MagicKirin
Your credibility would be greatly enhanced if you read some actual history instead of the tired old Zionist propaganda.
There is an Israeli state: it is clearly defined in the UN partition plan of 1948. All other areas of the former British Mandate are emphatically not part of Israel.
Peterm99 I've read historical texts and even made my way through in disgust some of the Palestinian propganda in the library.
Fact Israel was attacked by 6 nations in 67, they herocily overcame the odds and won land as winners of a war of aggression against them. Rough anolgy when Mexico attacked the U.S to start the Mexican-American war the U.S kept the land they won.
I've yet to see why the world feels sorry for people who have blown every chance for peace. The world should let the Palestinians stew in their own hatred and misery
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Boy, this blog is turning ugly! Is it too much
to ask for a little civility from the citizens of
the world who are posting here?
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Peter,
As usual, you're pretty much on the mark, but with one miinor inaccuracy - the securing of territory outside the defined boundaries began well before the declaration of independence, as can be seen in the chronology detailed here, and in the plans known as Plan Dalet.Magic,Fact is, ISRAEL ATTACKED FIRST in 1967. And 1947/8, and in every other incident except 1973.
Salaam, etc.
ed
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Thanks ;-)He has provided no numbers, simply an assertion that small vehicles are more dangerous. If he or anyone can provide the passenger-miles breakdown by vehicle class, then that part of the question can be addressed. Otherwise, we only have an assertion, and that from an unreliable source.Some interesting conclusions from a complex study [truncated to assuage moderators]:
Yes, you'll need the whole paper to make sense of it:
http://www.aceee.org/pubs/t021full
(just add (dot)pdf)
xx
ed
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#357. chewbaccadefense asks: "I would be interested, if you know how many people died in the germany death camps?"
If you mean how many died in _extermination camps_ in Germany, the answer would be none. Exterminations camps were predominately in Poland, with some in Croatia, Ukraine and Serbia. The deaths in the many "labour camps" were of so-called "natural causes", i.e. overwork and starvation as opposed to being deliberately gassed or shot. It would appear that the location of extermination camps in countries other than Germany was so that its own population would generally be unaware of what was happening.
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Ed Iglehart wrote:
Peter,
"Among the first acts of the Israelis following their declaration of independence was trying to secure territory outside of these defined boundaries."
As usual, you're pretty much on the mark, but with one miinor inaccuracy - the securing of territory outside the defined boundaries began well before the declaration of independence, as can be seen in the chronology detailed here, and in the plans known as Plan Dalet.
Magic,
"Fact Israel was attacked by 6 nations in 67,"
Fact is, ISRAEL ATTACKED FIRST in 1967. And 1947/8, and in every other incident except 1973.
Wrong Egypt blocked the Suez and massed troops at Israeli border while other troops did the same.
That is what caused the war.
If the Egyptian had not misled the Soviets that there were winning the U.N would have stopped the war immediatly.
But the Soviet stall the resolution.
I suggest you do some research in the conflict. If you do you will see that even before Sadat , Arab leaders who tried for peace were assinated by idelogical ancestors of the Palestinians and Hezbollah.
If you are for Justice you side with Israel.
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you get hit , hit or come off the road.
big cars and trucks come off roads easier and small cars if hit head on are more dangerous.. as I say a side hit can rip the small car to bits but if the passanger is not hit they may easilly survive to have the baby and carry on life.
Big cars are not safer just more dangerous to others.
american drivers now thats whats scary.
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@365:
"He has provided no numbers, simply an assertion that small vehicles are more dangerous. If he or anyone can provide the passenger-miles breakdown by vehicle class, then that part of the question can be addressed. Otherwise, we only have an assertion, and that from an unreliable source."
You're right, my bad. I shouldn't have said "he's right about the numbers," as thats not what I mean to say.
Correction: MAII was right which statistic (fatalities/PMT) was relevant to the discussion, while kecsmar was using not-quite-relevant statistics. I wrongly implied that MAII had actually gotten a value for this statistic which proved his point (big car safer than small car), which he of course has not (I do think think he is right about this one thing, but thats just speculation, and I'll look at that article).
Thanks for pointing that out so I could fix it.
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kecsmar #327
If you want me to tutor you in math, you will have to pay tuition. But I'd better warn you, my rates are steep and frankly I think it will take an awful lot of work with you just to make even a small amount of progress.
Ed Iglehart #341, same offer goes to you but I warn you too, you are also probably a difficult case. BTW, differential and integral calculus are taught in the same course. I don't know who you are trying to kid. But you made me think about whether or not it is possible for someone who never got though elementary algebra and so couldn't understand the simple automobile crash problem to squeak by calculus in a non technical course of study in an American college. I suppose it's possible....but highly unlikely.
glo_worm #342
You are intrigued? Doesn't take much does it. If you must know, I needed a moniker to register when the rules changed a few months ago and that's what my first dentist called me when I was a child. Don't you find that fascinating?
David Cunard #349
What was Europe supposed to do in the late 1930s? The same thing it is supposed to be doing now in Darfur. The US would do it but it's busy with other business. Besides, look at how the world reacted when it stopped mass murder by Saddam Hussein in Iraq. Europe talks a lot but when it comes to action, there's nobody home. Europe's weapon of choice? A war of words. That's as much as it can muster. That's why it gets so angry when the US actually takes action...and without its permission.
chewbaccadefense #357
How many people died in Hitler's death camps around Europe? The number I recall reading most frequently is 15 million. This included not only Jews but gypsies, homosexuals, people of other races and ethnicities the Nazis considered inferior such as slavs, and any and all manner of political opponents. But he singled out the Jews for extermination to the point where he wanted to kill every last Jew in Europe.
David_Cunard #349
I sometimes wonder if Europeans who post here want me to think they are dense by deliberately appearing that way or are actually what they seem to be on the face of it. Hitler murdered those he thought were genetically inferior to his Ayrian master race. I am not talking about race, I'm talking about Europe's inferior civilization. America is made up of people of every race who come from every ethnicity and nation in the world. The superiority of their civilization has nothing to do with their genes. If you want to understand it, I suggest you study the history of the United States carefully and completely as you can and you may get some real insight as to how and why it started from nowhere and spurted beyond the rest of humanity in the twinkling of an eye by historical standards. And why no matter what its current setbacks my be, the process will continue on probably indefinitely. Even BBC in its flawed and silly series "America Age of Empire" came to that conclusion. Think of it this way. When you look at say aborigines living in the stone age in a remote jungle like the Amazon or some undiscovered island near Borneo and think my how primitive these people are, that's the way I see Europe and Europeans.
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#348
Unlike those of you plucking figures and assumptions out of thin air, and as you both are unable to read my posts, i shall again reiterate.
You can disagree as much as you like with my own personal comments, doesn't bother me one bit, I'm not an insecure child like others appear to be. But you cannot dispute the figures.
My figures are not of my own conjuring up like a magician, for those see others. My figures are directly quoted from the US Dept. Transport statistics.
In other words, factual unbiased quantitative evidence.
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Some history from the UN:
and much more, with 147 references and nine Annexes.The Origins and Evolution
of the Palestine Problem:
1917-1988
PART I
1917-1947
Reading for the seriously interested, and it's only a beginning.
Salaam/Shalom/Shanthi/Dorood/Peace
ed
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#363Gunsandreligion
You have said it! This all to much for me. I'm going to commune with a cactus. Have a nice day, you all and.....
to paraphrase Ed Inglehart,
Pax Vobiscum
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Marcus Anus,
I'm neither in the habit of lying, nor in the matter of University Courses of forgetting the modular structure.Go and try and urinate up a rope.Salaam, etc.
ed