Health, guns and Unity
What can be going on here?
I am still getting through the Health Check postings - lordBeddGelert and others take me (and the Fox News fellow) to task for not living in the real world. What interested me about the piece was his recognition that there was terrible waste in the US system and huge personal investment of effort in the UK system - and that the kind of triumphalist approach (ours is best!) just does not wash. Though I take your point that if I were very very poor I would prefer to live in the UK - and my chances of surviving serious illness (even getting it diagnosed) would surely be higher.
On guns I intend to reflect some of this in the book I am writing about life in the US and for the very reason that sings out from the postings: it's complicated! Guns do not equal violence as the rural posters such as ruralhills point out. And yet they cause terrible bloodshed in an essentially rather peaceful nation as Ozbloke1 rather poetically adds. I am intrigued by the suggestion made by bluejay60 that martial arts training might be an answer.
I must say my cynicism about the Hillary Obama Unity trip (someone wrote to me to suggest Intercourse, PA as the next venue. Err, why, exactly?) somewhat faded as I talked to people afterwards. I now wonder whether she might be VP. I am so fickle.
On Obama's foreign travels I think gunsandreligion gets it right - Americans are sometimes rather isolated but they are not hostile to the outside world. Wish the same could be said of the outside world as it regards America. I think I may well be in the UK when Obama is and it'll be fascinating to see how he goes down. Cross between Jesus and Mick Jagger I shouldn't wonder (MagicKirin would agree) - with only Gerry Baker at the Times (he's their US Editor) holding out for the sceptics... Pleasingshareman begs the BBC to be fairer in its US coverage: we are trying my friend! It takes time. I think overall we are not as hostile as you suggest and nor should we be ....
Peterm99 (Gutsy Gates) says Gates has no veto over war and of course he is right in theory but my point is that in practice at this moment in time he does. The White House would be devastated by his resignation/sacking. The Nixon/Cox analogy is interesting but I suspect that is not the historical place Bush wants to be ....
Finally hiboutoo - you decide !!!!
Hello, I'm 
© MMIX~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~37~RS~)
CommentsSign in
You need to sign in to contribute to this page. If you're new to BBC Blogs, creating your membership is quick and easy.
Re: guns -- Rural America is nothing at all like urban America. A North Dakotan with a hunting rifle is one thing, a Los Angeles adolescent with an automatic weapon is another thing entirely. Few Americans would object to the former, but I think most of us, contrary to the NRA, seriously object to the latter. Regardless of the Supreme Court, a way must be found for the law to recognize that reality.
Re: Americans and the world -- It's a big country. Vacationing in other parts of the world (which almost always means Europe) costs substantially more than a trip to the beach. Besides, there's a lot to see here, and many of us really do want to see it all before we think of flying to Heathrow or Frankfurt. I'd also wager that more Kansans have been to the UK than Brits to Kansas.
Complain about this comment
Good to see you are covering things beyond the beltway and the elections. You would be no good as an EU correspondent - they don't have elections and have 3 or 4 different 'beltways' which they commute between..
"Though I take your point that if I were very very poor I would prefer to live in the UK .."
I do find this a rather telling, if somewhat depressing statement.. - Surely in the UK we would not want a situation where people who are living on a pension having retired are so far below an average income that they would have to be described not as 'poor' or 'very poor' but 'very very poor' ?
But maybe, sadly, the UK is heading to the level of income inequality prevalent in the US.
I dread to think what the opinion of my working class parents might be if your surname was Couric, or, heaven forbid, O'Reilly - maybe they really might judge a human being's worth by their income...
On that rather downbeat note, I'm going to have to hit the hay..
Complain about this comment
The On Call Exclusive item pretty much says what it's about. Powell commands respect from people in both major parties, despite his association with failed Bush policies. He is therefore obviously someone each candidate would want to consult and would like to have on his side. I expect he will endorse one or the other when he's ready, which may be not for awhile and perhaps never.
Complain about this comment
I know it has been discussed to death, but I personally would be very surprised to see HRC as the VP choice. She helps unify the party, which she is going to do anyway, at the cost of weakening Obama's message. She's also the one lightning rod who could possibly bring the far right out of their dormancy for this election. Right or wrong, she is one of the most hated public figures in the USA.
Obama wants and needs some of the moderate Republican and Democratic voters. I think a "red state" woman such as Kansas Gov. Sebelius is his best choice. Time will tell if he sees it the same way.
Complain about this comment
The US is still the Wild, Wild, West. We still want guns and everybody's butter. We still talk about values and pretend we don't have sex. We are still religious but have no knowledge of what is in the Bible. We still want to cure AIDS by pretending it does not exist. We still want and do drive our SUVs 90 miles and hour and complain that gas cost $4 and think that digging up Anwar will cure the oil shortage. We still live in a private bubble of priviledge that says China and India are interlopers using all our oil. And that Iraq should be grateful for US freeing them from that tyrant who gave the peace but not justice. Now they have Just US.
Complain about this comment
Justin Webb
I will be looking forward to reading your book. It is interesting that you describe us as "essentially a peaceful nation. This is something that I believe about us too but I am not sure that your view is universally shared. Gun ownership is and will probably continue to be a complicated issue in this country for a long time.
Sometimes, I think that people who have never been to the US or spent any real time traveling or living here have any idea how large, diverse and complex this country is.
Justcorbly made a good point in post #1 that there is a great deal to see here and that many Americans can't really afford to travel abroad. I have only been able to travel outside the US because I have family who will house and feed me when I get there. Also, many, many years ago I was an exchange student. It was a wonderful experience!
I enjoy your blog very much.
Complain about this comment
I just had another thought. (I'm old and slow) Gun control is not a new concept in this country. In the old west, many towns required visitors to surrender their guns to the sheriff before entering in order to preserve the peace of the town.
This probably just prevented outside influences from causing trouble as most of the town residents were probably well-armed.
Complain about this comment
About Powell, I don't think we know the
whole story about the prelude to the war.
I would suspect that Powell would support
Obama if he thought that it would prevent
the current administration from doing something
stupid, especially w/regard to Iran.
I don't think he has political ambitions.
He served his country well during the
first Gulf War, and was manipulated
into making those ridiculous presentations to
the UN prior to the current one.
He's had his fill of politics.
Complain about this comment
Mr. Webb, you can rationalize it any way you like but in 2002 and 2003 the President, the majority in both houses of Congress, and the majority of the American people were convinced that invading Iraq was the right thing to do. If they feel that way about Iran and Gates stands in their way, he will merely be swept aside. As for our military leaders, they have been given the most lavishly funded, best trained, best equipped military in the history of the world. If they cannot or will not use it to defend the nation when that is the decision handed down to them through the chain of command, they should also stand aside, most probably have the option of retiring. If they stand in the way, they risk Court Marshall and severe punishment. A military is NOT a democracy. They don't get to vote on their missions.
Complain about this comment
Re: Gusty Gates -- Iran is several oceans away from the U.S. and the only real threat they could pose against America and her allies would be if they stopped pumping oil and selling it to their godless enemies abroad. Which they will never do unless we force them to.
Mr. Gates knows this quite well, so what's up with this rather verbose offence against an administration he used to work for and which has repeatedly stated thier unwillingness to use the military option in the Iran case?
Could Mr. Gates be the tricky red cape behind which lurks the sword thrusting matador? And if so, pray tell, then who is the bull in the arena that he is trying to trick into a false sense of security?
Could it be the other adversary the Bush administration swears it will never attack?
The portly red bull right in our own hemisphere sitting on the 4th largest proven oil reserve in the world?
If I were President Chavez, I would keep a wary eye on the recently re-commissioned 4th fleet. I would also cancle any un-cashed Venezuelian checks the Colombian rebels might be holding. Oh' and Hugo, tell them to burn those bloody lap top computers!
Complain about this comment
#8 gunsandreligion
I have always admired Powell. I would have voted for him if he had pursued the presidency.
And I agree that he has "had his fill of politics."
#10 ljebella
I'm confused. I am sure someone will enlighten me
Complain about this comment
ljbella, #10, Gates, as far as I know, is the
current secretary of defense.
If he's making statements such as those
reported, he has a compelling, immediate reason.
As far as the 4th fleet goes, forget about us
attacking Venezuela or anybody else. Right
now, we have so little military capability left
that the British could probably run off with
the Liberty Bell and nobody would even notice.
Complain about this comment
#12gunsandreligion
Thanks!
I was confused about #10 and you have provided some clarification. How many people think we want to invade South America? Don't we have enough to do?
I need a very large gin and tonic. Stick a fork in me. I am done.
Complain about this comment
#1. justcorbly: "I'd also wager that more Kansans have been to the UK than Brits to Kansas." That probably goes for the other 49 states as well, Kansas is not exactly the travel magnet of the USA! Other than Dodge City and a tenuous relationship with Judy Garland, what is there to see which compares with that in Britain?
#9. MarcusAureliusII "the majority of the American people were convinced that invading Iraq was the right thing to do." And now the majority see it as a waste of money and lives. Regime change was not the reason for the invasion and subsequent hostilities. American opinion was swept up in the aftermath of 9/11, but now we know that what was presented to both the American and British public was largely untrue. For their part, the British public was not in favour of a war which did not threaten its national security. Two tabloid newspapers made the case for and against, the victor being the one under foreign ownership.
Every President is bound to take advice from those who know best, and another pre-emptive strike would not be tolerated by the American electorate - and anyway, Congress has the last word.
With regard to the healthcare systems in the two countries, it is nigh impossible to make a direct comparison. Indeed the indigent in Britain are better off than their American counterparts, but it's those in the middle who are squeezed most. The British do have all basic medical care covered, but it's major surgery and the provision of expensive medication where the system unravels. An illustrative case would be my own abdominal cancer, a "soft tissue sarcoma". The HMO I belong to ran a series of tests, including CAT and MRI scans, and by the time I arrived home arrangements were being made to remove the offending mass the very next week - a waiting period between diagnosis and surgery of less than ten days. In Britain, that could just as likely have been six months and the tumour spread further. My mother (in Reading) who suffered late onset Alzheimer's Disease was never offered any drug assistance even though I had volunteered to pay for Aricept or Cognex. Even now patients (and their relatives) are not permitted to provide drugs which NICE considers to be too expensive and/or ineffectual, whereas in the US, such drugs are widely available to dementia sufferers. For those in an NHS hospital, MRSA and Clostridium Difficile is the fear - dying because of these rather than whatever ailed them in the first place. As yet, the incidence of these in American hospitals is substantially lower. For those in America who may think that care ("nursing") home costs are born by the state/NHS, very few are funded in their entirety. As in America, older people lose their homes and their savings to pay for continuing care - a small number succeed in obtaining 100% funding, but these are not in the majority. It is reported that this is the primary concern of the public, and just this week, changes in the system are being touted. As America moves toward some version of universal health care, Great Britain is moving inch-by-inch to privatisation. Should the Conservative Party be returned to government I have no doubt that this will continue, and only the very, very poor will be eligible for free care at the point of need.
Complain about this comment
Clarification #1: Mr. Gates is playing the part of the rouge Secretary of Defense and therefore no longer a synchronous part of the present administration. Note the lack of a scathing and prolonged administration attack on Gates after testimony on the hill. It's contrived!
Clarification #2: The 4th fleet will be comprised of navy vessels taken from other task forces and will be on patrole in the gulf within 3 months. The U.S. navy is as of late at full strength and is by far the strongest branch of the Amarican armed forces.
Clarification #3: Venezuela is not the whole of South America. We need not attack the whole place. In fact we need not attack Venezuela ( we've only done that in Panama) just support the next government take over which should be in November. They are having elections in November just as we are.
Complain about this comment
re: #12 gunsandreligion
". . . the British could probably run off with
the Liberty Bell and nobody would even notice."
Sadly, the primary reason we'd hardly notice is that much of what it used to represent has been flushed over the years.
Complain about this comment
Mr. Webb, I look forward to your book as well. You should shamelessly promote it as publication date approaches, in the American tradition. No need for modesty here in the New World!
The similarities are striking between us, as well as the differences.
The gun issue is one big example. I, and many millions of others, grew up around guns, trained from childhood in safe handling practices, with deep respect for proper usage, and abhorrence for misuse. They have always been a healthy part of our Middle American culture--those millions upon millions of us who work, raise children, go to church, volunteer in our communities, and look with dismay upon judges and politicians who see it as their life's work to destroy our way of life, while we pay the taxes to fund their 'life's work'.
Neither are we fat-cat pickup truck drivers who just want to feel macho behind the wheel. They have always been expensive to own and operate, and they are the backbone of countless small businesses. Much of this country is still wilderness, in the same condition as when the white settlers arrived.
Conditions are often harsh, and distances are extremely long point to point. You can fit most of the UK into our State of Illinois!
I look forward to your book. I hope it avoids the typical British condescension to which we have become accustomed.
Come visit us here in Tennessee, travel the small towns, fish the streams, join us on a dove hunt, eat our food, play golf with us, go to Friday night football in a county seat town, hear the accent of our English, and then do it again in Kentucky, Alabama, Louisiana, etc. Washington is a wierd hothouse, and not representative of the heartland.
Come visit us, your US correspondents, before you start writing. It's a serious offer! I think you'll enjoy the experience.
Complain about this comment
re: #14 David_Cunard
". . . Every President is bound to take advice . . ."
Ummmm, no, unfortunately. He is required by law and custom to have advisors - he is not obligated to follow their advice, or, for that matter, to even listen to them.
". . . another pre-emptive strike would not be tolerated by the American electorate . . ."
totally meaningless in terms of ability to "force" the administration to not do it if it has so decided
". . . Congress has the last word."
Unless they change current law, Congress has already given the administration sanction to conduct such a strike.
". . . patients (and their relatives) are not permitted to provide drugs which NICE considers to be too expensive and/or ineffectual . . ."
What rationale do they give to justify this? How is this prohibited? Legal sanction, or refusal to administer medication you've provided, or ???
Complain about this comment
Nice to see You admiting that if You were "very,very poor" You would prefer the British (as a Scot I assume You mean "English",ours being seperate) Healthcare System.
However, even if You are middle- class,ours is still better (but by no means perfect) .In America ,even if You do have Health Insurance,a serious illness can mean You lose Your life savings.This happened to a Friend of mine.
Complain about this comment
I concur with OldSouth that you should see the
country that you're writing about. Who knows,
the BBC would probably rent a car for
you and pay all of your fuel and motel bills.
But, after New Orleans, you absolutely must
head west through Texas (don't worry, it's
only an inch on the map) into New Mexico
and head up to see at least Albuquerque,
Santa Fe, and Taos. Then you could head north
to Durango and see the southern Rockies.
And, you absolutely must see southern Utah,
including Moab, Torrey, Bryce, and Zion.
You could take in the Escalante along the way.
And then, further west, there is always the
Eastern Sierras, Yosemite, the SF Bay area,
Napa, and the Central Coast.
You can skip LA, though. There really is
nothing there except a lot of traffic and
publicity.
Complain about this comment
Sigh, I hope Justin notices me one day. Maybe I should start posting insightful comments rather than unfunny sarky one liners.
Complain about this comment
re: #20 gunsandreligion
". . . You can skip LA, though. There really is
nothing there except a lot of traffic and
publicity."
I fully concur regarding LA - and I live there !!
Complain about this comment
Re: #4 Sebelius is not the only woman Obama might choose as VP (and it would be foolish to choose Clinton). There is McCaskill from Missouri, but military experience may prove to be more attractive in the veepstakes as they are called. Re: #12 Would we notice if the British stole the Liberty Bell? We might with the Fourth coming up, as we have a Ben Franklin impersonator marrying a Betty Ross impersonator on the steps of Independence Hall tomorrow.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080620/ap_on_re_us/odd_revolutionary_marriage
Complain about this comment
marygrav - excellent post ! much as i pretend to hate the yankees, it is really only because they remind us brits of our imperialist past and kicks off a pavlovian 'guilt trip' response..
Complain about this comment
"Every president is bound to take advice from those who know best."
Another inevitably wrong comment from someone originally from the other side of the pond. Every President gets a vast array of information and opinions and then decides for himself what course of action his branch of government will follow. We do not elect his advisors and empower them with the responsibility of decision making, we vote for the President to do that. This is your false understanding of American government.
Your comment about regime change is dead wrong. I'm not going to debate it any further now except to say that both the British and American governments saw Iraq as a threat to the US and so did the Russian government. That is a matter of public record. I also remind you that the dodgy dossier was an invention of British intelligence that the British government believed, why shouldn't the American government have believed it too or do you agree that the British intelligence service is lying and incompetent and not to be trusted? Sad news really. There is nobody who wanted to get out of Iraq more than President Bush. The question at any given time was how to do it without leaving things worse than they already were. I saw a program on National Geographic Channel the other night about how Iraq was run under Saddam Hussein and frankly, had the issue been humanitarian there would have been no doubt that the entire world should have invaded much sooner. The crimes his regime committed both in numbers and in heinousness have been glossed over and forgotten. But that was not the mission. Neither was stealing their oil. If oil had been the object, we would be pumping it all straight into American tankers and protecting nothing else. Besides, for the trillion dollars the war cost, we could have bought far more oil that we'll ever get out of Iraq...or drilled some of the nearly 100 billion barrels of known offshore and ANWR reserves we know we have right at home.
Sorry about your family illnesses. But it is nice to finally hear a story about the truth of the utter incompetence, indadequacy, and failure of the British Health Service medical system for a change since it is often held up as a model of what we should be doing here in America. Again, the American medical care system is not broken, its doctors and hospitals are the best in the world, isolated horror stories notwithstanding. What is broken is the system of paying for it.
Complain about this comment
#23 Candace, yes, I know there are others, thus the "such as" part. The final choice will be not only up to Obama, but also the chosen one. Many non-public factors will be considered.
#25 M.A.II, I could pick on your other points but choose to let them slide. Please reread the Fox man's (it wasn't Justin's) story about his wife's medical care. He didn't call the UK NHS a failure, far from it. He was able to appreciate its strengths, also pointing out a few weaknesses. Likewise, in the USA. (Which, incidentally, is why the article was worthy of note. It wasn't "grinding an axe", which is how I perceive your assessment of it.)
There are plenty of problems in USA medical care independent of (but perhaps tangentially related to) the system of financing. Healing is far more about the person than about the toys and gadgets used. According to the Fox man, they seem to understand this better on the other side of the pond. Maybe their understanding (of this and other matters) is deeper than yours?
Complain about this comment
Agreed with OldSouth and others who suggest a tour of the country, if you haven't taken one already Justin.
But don't just visit rural America, whose population is, unfortunately, shrinking. You have to visit the coastal, urban, and suburban areas, too -- that's where people are moving to in order to find work, where you'll find the dynamic immigrant communities, and where the modern American culture is taking shape.
Don't skip LA -- and yes, I've lived there before. Although the city of LA itself is not that large -- try the neighboring cities of Compton and Long Beach. Seeing what people go through in the inner city gives a vital perspective on the gun debate.
On the other hand, digressing on the subject of guns, I don't see how the Supreme Court could have ruled any other way. The Second Amendment was designed to let people defend themselves against tyrants. Allowing a local government to ban guns entirely would have turned that whole grand design on its head. Reasonable regulations and licensing are fortunately kept intact by the court's decision.
David, you're spot on regarding regime change. Furthermore, anyone who knows their Shia from their Sunni (this automatically excludes US media and politicians) figured out before this started that Iran would unfortunately benefit from all this.
Marcus, _no_ government or intelligence service is "to be trusted" -- deception is a critical part of their work. Hence, the Iraq war.
Complain about this comment
#14: I'll admit that the only time I've been in Kansas was on a long drive to Denver. Meanwhile, I've had several trips to the UK.
The fact is that Europe and North America have different histories. One can spend a day on the road in Europe and be in 3 04 4 different countries. You can drive for a day in the U.S. and never leave the state. (Russians, Canadians and Australians are in a similar position.)
Europeans become more "cosmopolitan" (not sure that's the right word) with even minmal travel. That's not because they're more virtuous, it's because they can't avoid it.
Complain about this comment
"Guns do not equal violence as the rural posters such as ruralhills point out."
Well, they do. As most research into the topic suggests. For example,
"The presence of a gun in the home is a risk factor for homicide in the home; the purchase of a handgun from a licensed dealer is associated with becoming a homicide victim; gun ownership may be a risk factor for committing homicide; there is a positive association between various measures of firearm availability and overall rates of homicide, a trend that holds across regions, states, cities, and counties."
From "Rates of household firearm ownership and homicide across US regions and states", M. Miller, D. Azrael, and D. Hemenway, American Journal of Public Health, Vol. 92. See also the references therein.
The rural areas mentioned in this debate are probably safe *in spite* of guns, not because of them.
Complain about this comment
Justin, I know you are not responsible directly for every story the bbc takes out of America but a report by Jonathan Beale on TV evangelists really falls short of unbiased BBC standards.
1. the story is two years old on the citation jet.
2. the itinery taken by Kenneth Copeland could not be met by any civil airline.
3.Kenneth Copeland Ministries have filed tax returns to the IRS for 40 years.
4. 7% of church income is spent on administration.
For Jonathan Beale not to see a US congressman make a sensational story in election year
is very naive.
All the above info was available to me on the Kenneth Copeland Ministries website. KCM.com
BBC's credibility will not be lost in a waterfall but on a drip by drip basis.
Complain about this comment
I will only buy your book if I have to spend time in a hospital (obviously not an American one).
Complain about this comment
14 dc good post.
the trend you talk about at the end is the worry of those like me who think the NHS is way better than nothing.
And the countering of the american system works is a goal because it batently does not.
BTW lady died in hospital waiting room in LA (back a while but footage released).
Not so great but then it was a county hospital.
and M erronious is at it again,
what is that first paragraph about(well really what is any of your trash about)
"Another inevitably wrong comment from someone originally from the other side of the pond. Every President gets a vast array of information and opinions and then decides for himself what course of action his branch of government will follow. We do not elect his advisors and empower them with the responsibility of decision making, we vote for the President to do that. This is your false understanding of American government. "
You are false here. nothing you are writing about has anything to do with the comments by DC,Nothing.
Your biggest beef is he crossed the pond.
the rest is just weird, his advisers advise .
explain the rational behind this silly paragraph.
why would the overlords of the world with the best of everything read a british report and decide to go to war on that.
Sounds like all were scuppered and suckered here.
and by the way the
"I saw a program on National Geographic Channel the other night about how Iraq was run under Saddam Hussein and frankly, had the issue been humanitarian there would have been no doubt that the entire world should have invaded much sooner. "
that humanitarian cause was the excuse for europeans. we had heard for years about the effects of sanctions.
maybe tony gave GW the report so he could get something going , with the hope of sorting the humanitarian aspects.
Smart move,
except he was not smart enough to realise that GW was a deceitful lying opportunistic idiot with no moral base.
pick you allies well.
if you are just realising how bad it was in Iraq before the invasion you show how far behind and how ignorant you are.
Complain about this comment
pterm99, Pasadena is nice. I didn't mean
to say that Justin should avoid ALL of LA,
just to be selective.
He could always catch the Doo-Dah
parade. That's in February, right?
Complain about this comment
Oh, and Justin, if you do make it out to
Colorado, avoid the million dollar highway,
whatever you do. Don't let any of the locals
talk you into it.
We want you to finish your trip.
Complain about this comment
On guns:
Sure, guns kill but don't any of you read the BBC and news from 'other countries' such as Japan, the UK and France? Knives seem to be dangerous too. And school children have been the victums there of knives as children here have been victum to guns. The stories that aren't heard is like the Mall shooter who was stopped by an armed housewife.
We already have many laws regulating the sale of guns, and criminals still buy them illegally (duh,..criminal). And the cost of prisons and limited death penalty leaves us to let them out to kill again.
In Texas we have two ways to handle gun crimes, if the homeowner doesn't shoot you, the State will give you a needle.
I will be the first to say it makes little to no difference. If a criminal or an insane person wants to rob/kill/rape or kidnap there is little that will deter him/her.
But having loaded guns that I and my wife and children (youngest is 20) all know how to use in my house means he'll die here, not me or mine.
On Medical:
The poor, and I am one, have instant acess to care and use it. The debt that surrounded me from having four children. (It is now all paid, twenty five dollars a week)
Healthcare in the United States has served me well. I'm an underpaid sheetrocker, high dedutable insurance and little money. At fifty four years old the pains are forever prevelent, but I digress,...I just had my left knee repaired in day surgery and mended at home, nice room, private bath and a Doctor who actually called to see if I was doing ok.
We don't need a new payer tax, we need people to take responsibility for themselves. I talk constantly to people who smoke but have no insurance, WHAT, at five dollars a pack(six and a half or more in other places) I could have a non deductable policy.
It is the choices people make, not the laws the government makes, that are the difference. In both the medical care they get and the gun the choose to own or not.
Six P's: Piss Poor Planning on you Part doesn't Perpetuate a Problem for me.
Complain about this comment
#25.MarcusAureliusII: Apparently you either cannot read or your comprehension abilities are seriously flawed: "Every President gets a vast array of information and opinions and then decides for himself what course of action his branch of government will follow." What is that if not taking advice from others?
With regard to the invasion of Iraq, the ostensible reason was to disarm it of weapons of mass destruction, not a change of government. Depending upon the source, the cost to the American taxpayer has been somewhere between 60 billion and three trillion dollars and for Britain some ten billion. That would buy a lot of healthcare in any country. Whether the intelligence services were at fault will be debated for years to come, together with the suspicion that intelligence was created to rationalise an invasion. The truth of the matter will not be revealed in our lifetime.
The NHS has its problems, but not "utter incompetence, indadequacy, and failure . ." Considering that it serves 60 million people it does quite well. At least medical help IS available, as a right, to everyone regardless of means, whereas those in the US have absolutely nothing, zilch. If it were so awful, then it would have been abandoned long ago - even Mrs Thatcher understood that the benefits outweighed the faults. For Americans, it is the delivery of health care that is problematic - having the means (money) is the determinant of whether diagnosis and treatment is available - even for something as basic as a 'flu shot (jab).
Incidentally, one of the most useful weapons in the diagnostic arsenal is the CAT scanner - a British invention; likewise the discovery of penicillin which, together with its derivatives, has saved countless lives. The picture is not so black and white as is painted.
#32. Jacksforge - thanks for the vote of confidence!
Complain about this comment
OnlyHereForTheFood # 21 wrote
"Sigh, I hope Justin notices me one day. Maybe I should start posting insightful comments rather than unfunny sarky one liners".
Sir, you should not get depressed. -Whether you are a "Tommy" or a "Grunt" you have to accept the fact that not everybody gets mentioned in dispatches. You should be satisfied with your campaign medals having avoided the pitfalls and barbed wire placed by his moderators in reaching the blog.
Many have achieved a Distinguished Service Medal / Cross with a further Bronze Service Star or Bar, for their long term commitment on these pages.
Todays heroes should be applauded. I remember lordBeddGelert, [ DSM with 3 Bars], earlier, when he was just simple BeddGelert. So perseverance pays dividends.
Many fighting the present battle have their achievements appreciated by all, eg Ed Iglehart, [DMC and Bronze Star] who is attemting to equal the Purple Heart record for wounded in action, together with many other unsung posters.
Success is not always guaranteed. Greta [ DSC and Bronze Star] is now 3 months missing in action, later confirmed on another blog as not agreeing with our Generals' Aunty-American leadership - A case of hit by Friendly Fire.
Complain about this comment
On the topic of guns, here's an interesting item from the BBC:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/2656875.stm
Complain about this comment
I told the big guy not to drop his trousers; but, did he listen?
NOOooo!
It's been 10 years; I'm over it now.
Complain about this comment
Whoa,!! This is some link! Just helps state the position I took above.
Thanks Gary_A_Hill, I copy it here as it was on the clipboard.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/2656875.stm
Yes, from the link above this jurist understood:
"Nearly a century before that American bumper sticker (If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns) was slapped on the first bumper, the great English jurist, AV Dicey cautioned: "Discourage self-help, and loyal subjects become the slaves of ruffians." He knew public safety is not enhanced by depriving people of their right to personal safety." Quoted of Joyce Lee Malcome
Key words folks, 'Loyal Subjects' such as law abiding citizens of any race, religion or creed (for us Americans in the States, as our media won't count us as one people).
Hey Justin, how about this for a title subject?
"Americas Seperate Peoples"
Un-united without common cause, distracted and isolated by faith, education, color, language and race (I always considered English, French, Italian, German, Russian and Spanish as white) and constant pradle of media bias. Owners of computers, subscribers to the internet, but blinded by narrowness of mind, simpleness of will, idled by the public education and proliferation alternate reality games........
Whoa, I could go on way to long here. The last survey on our reading habits is our population now read less than one book a year.
Ignorance is not a Democracys friend.
Complain about this comment
Here's another non gun killing spree:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080702/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_bulldozer_attack;_ylt=AvtsgKs0aiR84sPsyFQsRwBvaA8F
Complain about this comment
Justin -- regarding an appropriately symbolic venue for the Obama and Clinton Unity Tour...I submit "Boring, Oregon"... a redundant title I'll admit, but it best symbolizes the unity theme for me, as in "Who cares? No matter what, no matter where the idea of unity between the two is boring and absurd." The audience which holds this ritual to be sincere are the herd upon which all marketing departments prey.
I think the communities of Unity, Intercourse, Climax, or even Death Valley overstate the possible relevance of this ridiculous dance.
BK
Complain about this comment
No Justin!! Don't write a book about us--it'll just generate more ridicule, judgement, rejection, and bokingfrom many foreigners; '"No that's not true!! Americans are nothing like that!! Those yanks are cow boys, rude etc!" Come now!! Do you really want to risk that?
Regarding guns. I think it very nice of you to think hat America is "esentially peaceful" (no doubt this perception will be met by strong disagreement from the mojority of British people; on this forem at least!!). My own personal view on guns will never change simply for the basic reason that I think they're wrong, and if used (most likely by a criminal) have a far better chance of killing someone than any other weapon of choice. But since we'll never be able to bann them because of that damned second amendment, perhaps the debate should be centered on how best to restrict them, or better still, how to follow Britain's lead in actually working to eleviate poverty in the richest nation on earth, so that people don't feel the need to resort to violence to survive!! Now there's a novelty idea that just might be crazy enough to work, huh?
Regarding health care. Yes the British system is better; Everyone, if they were honest with themselves, would admit that!! It doesn't matter what kind of care one recieves, if it covers everyone, then it is better!! However I do take issue with Lord BeddGellert (#2) on his belief that the middle class have it better in Britain than in America-personally I think the respective countries provide about the same for that class. But then again, I do question how Lord BeddGellert came to his conclusion (has he gotten treatment as a middle class citizen in both countries?) And its no surprise, as I seem to take issue with a lot of what he writes. Regarding the poor, however, ashaimidly there is no comparison. Although to David Cunard (#34) I believe it was, I do believe emergency rooms must treat everyone who comes through their doors, so your statement that the poor in the US get "zilch" in the way of health care, is, I believe, somewhat of a false statement.
And last but not least, Americans and the world. Justin you stated that you agree with gunsandreligion's asertion that Americans don't know about the world outside their boarders, but aren't hostil to the outside world in general. Well, that may be true, but gunsandreligion wrote an interesting post on that entry (I believe it was #6), in which he seemed to blame our media for a large portion of the reason why Americans don't know that a world exists outside of America!! I don't agree!!! I mean of course large swaythes of our media could take some serious lessons from the BBC on how to report world events (I, myself, check the BBC every day because I feel that it does the best job on just that!!!), but has he not heard of CNN, ABC World News, PBS, and to a lesser extent MSNBC? It just matters what program one watches. And many Americans, just as many Britains I'm sure! just simply don't care about the world outside their own personal lives. It just simply doesn't interest them, and you can't force someone to become interested in something that they're not!! I think its also a good point to make that its probably true that mose Europeans know more about the world than most Americans do because Europeans are forced to live in smaller geographical areas, making it unavoidable to not learn, or at least hear, about other countries, cultures, languages, and people, where as the average American probably only knows Spanish as a second language, and the leaders of Canada and Mexico. The weakness of the dollar compared to the euro/pound, and the hostility of foreigners to America/Americans that Justin refferenced in this entry, and which is unfortionately strongly evident on some of these pages don't help the cause of getting Americans more educated either!!!
Complain about this comment
David Cunard (#36): writes '"For Americans, it is the delivery of health care that is problematic - having the means (money) is the determinant of whether diagnosis and treatment is available - even for something as basic as a 'flu shot (jab)."
A bit offensive, don't you think? It is perhaps our nation's biggest embarisment that we don't provide universal health care for all our citizens!!! But I hate to break it to you, David, but that is the delemma faced by all countries around the world (universal health care or not)!! Yeah, and I suppose how Britain gets the money to provide care for its citizens is it just waves Harry Potter's magic wonde?
Complain about this comment
The US is always whinning about WMD in hands of terrorist foreign lands. What do you think hand guns represent to people in the inner cities of America?
The National Riffle Associations out in the suburbs are afraid of the Urban attmosphere so they like to cause mischeif.
Complain about this comment
gunsandreligion (#20) invites '"after New Orleans, you absolutely must head west through Texas (don't worry, it's only an inch on the map) into New Mexico and head up to see at least Albuquerque, Santa Fe, and Taos. Then you could head north to Durango and see the southern Rockies. And, you absolutely must see southern Utah, including Moab, Torrey, Bryce, and Zion. You could take in the Escalante along the way. And then, further west, there is always the Eastern Sierras, Yosemite, the SF Bay area, Napa, and the Central Coast."
Yes! And don't forget while you're touring these areas, to write down how many houses you see being forclosed on, so that you can perhaps follow some of your colleeg's lead, and write a scathing article article, or perhaps do a scathing news broadcast, on how The United States of America, the "land of opertunity", the "beacon of hope" is going through an economic rough patch;as if we don't know that already!!! I personally love your own personal style of reporting (I thinks its streight forward, critical when necessary, and fair minded!!), and I agree with your assessment of the BBC's reporting on America; overall its very fair and respectful!! But as some posters have pointed out before, there are some areas where it slips up, and its reporting of our economic difficulties is one of the ones where it sorely does in my opinion!!
But aside from that...keep it up!!
Complain about this comment
#18. peterm99 - see my post at #36.
There's a difference between taking advice and acting upon it
With regard to a strike against Iran, I would have thought that the Congressional approval applied only to that concerned with Iraq, not a blanket agreement to any strike anywhere. And should there be a pre-emptive attack, or even the suspicion of one, then my guess is that come November, Mr McCain will not be elected. Isn't the saying 'fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me'? I would not think the American public is willing to pay out further billions of dollars or lose many lives.
The rationale NICE gives is that the drugs are neither effective in themselves and nor cost effective for the patients concerned. Their word is final - however, there have been some court cases in which those rulings have been overturned.
Complain about this comment
#44. NoRashDecisions "I suppose how Britain gets the money to provide care for its citizens is it just waves Harry Potter's magic wonde?"
The National Health Service/s (there are four of them with slightly different regulations) are funded mostly by general taxation; a fraction comes from National Insurance Contributions. The 'magic' comes from raising taxes, never a popular action for governments.
#43 - Emergency care is a different matter to those with chronic conditions - cancer and dementia for example. I think it very difficult to directly compare the health systems in two very different countries; in the UK the present generation and those before them in the last sixty years have been raised in the knowledge that a doctor is available and treatment when necessary - all at no cost to the patient; those British citizens who are resident elsewhere (think of the ex-pats in Spain) are excluded. There are charges for prescriptions and other ancillary costs, all of which Americans have largely dismissed as "socialized medicine" since anything paid for by the state smacks of political socialism. That attitude has changed considerably. Successive British governments have wrestled with increased costs and funding of the NHS since dismantling it is not an option. The 'middle class' in Britain appears to be taking private insurance as an adjunct to the NHS. It should be remembered that owning one's own house was somewhat unusual forty years ago and that the present economic situation in the UK has made the UK a different place to what it was. It's all part of the equation as Britons emulate a lifestyle which has long been prevalent in the USA. Although it is over half-a-century ago, America did not suffer the same kind of deprivation as did Britain, and now they're making up for it in very way - bigger fridges, chilled beer, hamburgers, personal hygiene, multiple cars for one family - and, when the premiums are affordable, health care.
Complain about this comment
re: #47 David_Cunard
"With regard to a strike against Iran . . ."
The problem is that over many years, Congress has, in a de facto sense, enabled the President to take unilateral military action at any time against anyone he declares has either attacked us or represents a serious threat. For example, the 1973 War Powers Act, intended to place limits on Presidential powers, requires (among others) that the President "consult with Congress" before any action is initiated, and then specifies procedures that Congress must take to either approve or disapprove of the actions over a period of 60 days. "(C)onsult with Congress" means that he has to _inform_ the Speaker and Pres Pro Tem, nothing more, and there is absolutely no prohibition against his conducting total war operations until the full Congress expressly prohibits them up to 60 days later (a comprehensive air campaign (described in a previous post) can be executed well within a 60 day period). Just as examples, the invasions of Grenada and Panama did not violate the War Powers Act, yet, to my knowledge, no formal Congressional approvals were requested or obtained.
To make things worse in this case, this act (limiting the President's war powers) has been claimed to be unconstitutional by all previous presidents and has yet to be validated by the USSC. Thus, in the final analysis, even the inadequate limitations of this act could be ignored by Bush with no (legal) downside risk.
Further, Congress has also passed resolutions which provide specific authorization (if previously articulated administration interpretive "logic" is used), as well as resolutions which only imply that he has their authorization. For example, one recent resolution defined an arm of the Iranian military as a terrorist organization. By virtue of previously passed resolutions, Bush can attack terrorist groups and their supporters, who, since this group is a government organization, just happens to be the Iranian government. In still another recent appropriations bill, a provision which required Bush to seek authorization prior to attacking Iran was expressly removed because "it would take away perhaps the most important tool the US has when it comes to Iran" (Pelosi's words). I (and probably Bush as well) cannot see how this implies anything other than Bush already has authorization to do so.
Still further, based on well-established historical precedents, nothing prevents Bush, as commander in chief, from responding to an Iranian attack without any consultations with Congress. Given previous claims of Iranian involvement in attacks in Iraq which cost the lives of US troops, it could easily be that the next American casualty in Iraq will be used as the justification to attack.
As far as the voter reaction goes, I won't argue against what you say. It is my belief, however, that given the choice, Bush would not hesitate to sacrifice McCain's election chances (which aren't likely to be stellar, in any event) in order to complete another element of the neocon agenda. I remain convinced that the only thing holding an Iranian attack in abeyance is that the administration and other AIPAC adherents have not yet achieved success in their propaganda campaign to establish an acceptable casus belli.
Complain about this comment
#49peterm99
Thank you for that cogent analysis. We have allowed our president way too much power.
I agree that Bush would not give a fig if any of his actions hurt McCain's chances at the presidency. He uses power for a drug. He just can't get enough.
Complain about this comment
#49. peterm99 - The explanation is appreciated, but do you really think President Bush would want to further ruin his already tarnished reputation? Even if Mr McCain accepted that it was justified, I imagine that his opponent would oppose it, just as he did before he was a US Senator. I think Congress would be very upset if another invasion were to be made, unless of course it was to assist Israel. Nevertheless, I'm not at all sure that the President would risk the way History will consider him. For all his happy-go-lucky attitude I feel sure that his ego is such that he cares about what will said and thought of him in the years to come. Let us hope that an invasion never comes to pass with further loss of young Americans, not to mention the cost.
Complain about this comment
Whether indiviual Americans are hostile toward the outside world (what a bunker mentality that phrase implies!) is not nearly as important as the fact that America is a hostile force TO much of the so-called "outside world". In ruthlessly seeking to impose by "shock and awe" either directly or through client regimes like Israel and the UK, a unipolar "new world order", the U.S. has undertaken countless hostile actions against innocents around the world, for the past sixty years, and even before. And much of the American public has supported this or at the very least, not opposed it. So in a very real sense Americans are hostile to the "outside world", or anyone or anything that resists American domination. Something that will continue unabated, and perhaps even intensify if Obama Copacabana is crowned in November. Which is why there are far more principled sceptics than Gerry Baker "holding out" against such a disturbing prospect. Obama is more in the image of Jagger's Lucifer than Jesus. But the absurd notion that the BBC is "hostile" to the U.S. tops all. That's a clever feint to try and push its already sanitized coverage of America in an even more fawning direction. When the BBC is as critical of the government of the U.S as it is of the democratically elected government of Palestine, or anyone else disfavored by America, then maybe you can believe it!
Complain about this comment
for aquarizonagal and David_Cunard
Post #49, like all of my others, is just my interpretation of things I read about - I make no claim that others can't pick apart everything I write.
re: #51 David_Cunard
". . . do you really think President Bush would want to further ruin his already tarnished reputation?"
I'm sure there are many ways to look at it. Let me point out some things that strike me as entirely plausible.
First, the implication of a "tarnished reputation" is not correct from some points of view. Bush is seen as great by up to a third of the US population, most of the Israeli political class, and virtually all Zionist hard-liners, to say nothing of leaders (and former leaders) of most of the countries that assisted us in the Iraqi misadventure. Remember that this President is surrounded by uncritical sycophants: he may not even be aware of the full extent of the condemnation of his policies by others.
Also consider that this man told the world that "God told me to invade Iraq". Is it so farfetched to believe that Bush thinks of himself as a great leader because of his willingness to do "the right things" in spite of numerical unpopularity? Perhaps he sees himself as a highly deserving candidate for a chapter in the next "Profiles in Courage" update for his actions, but that it will take some time for the rest of the world to acknowledge his greatness. If he holds this view (and I wouldn't be surprised if he does), it makes sense that an attack to cripple what neocons and hardline Zionists see as the Iranian threat to Israel and the US is not unlikely.
Also, if he truly believes that he is carrying out God's will, as he has said, it is entirely possible that he doesn't care about his Earthly popularity/reputation/legacy because he thinks his reward will be in the afterlife.
If these conjectures on my part are even close to correct, torpedoing McCain's and his party's chances in the coming election would be just small additional prices to pay for having done "the right thing" and would, in his mind, make him even _more_ deserving of a "Profiles in Courage" chapter.
Complain about this comment
As for our military leaders, they have been given the most lavishly funded, best trained, best equipped military in the history of the world.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/military/july-dec08/mrapsuccess_07-01.html
Complain about this comment
#53. peterm99 "he may not even be aware of the full extent of the condemnation of his policies" Unless he's completely isolated in the The White House, surely he must read the polls and when abroad see demonstrations? His approval ratings are hovering around the 28% mark, that's hardly much more than a quarter of the population!
As for carrying out God's will, you make some interesting points. He's in the same boat as Tony Blair, who also said he prayed about whether to send British troops to their death. Invoking a deity harks back to the days of witches and trial-by-drowning. It's tragic that such things would be decided by belief in a higher power; after all the same entity permitted the 9/11 and 7/7 attacks. Supposing we had a Jehovah's Witness as president or prime minister, then such force would never be used. Perhaps one day there will be a president who has no belief one way or the other and responds only to the facts as presented to him or her. From my perspective, and possibly as much as three-quarters of the USA, the only book President Bush is likely to appear in is 'Profiles in Failure'. If there is an afterlife, then he'll more likely stay in Purgatory for eons before being permitted a glimpse of Paradise.
Complain about this comment
David Cunard (#48): regarding post #44, I know how the UK really pays for its health care system--I was being sarcastic!!! Even if I weren't personally interested in British/European politics/life/entertainment, I'd still know, given the amount of people who complain about how insanely high their taxes are on the internet! But I rather take the view that paying taxes is a priviladge, not a burden. Those British citizens who complain should rather think about how many of their fellow man they are helping, and how the me-me-me attitude of those damned "yanks", has lead them to leave 47 million of their own citizens out in the cold!! That should cheer them up in no time!!!
Regarding #43, Obviously there is no comparison between overall general health care coverage for the poor between the US and UK, as I've stated in post 44, and countless other times on other blog entries regarding health care!!! I think you know that! What I was merely pointing out, was that people just simply aren't completely left to their own devices regarding "all" health care needs in the US, and I'm glad you recognise that, as you seem to have stated in post #48.
And I know that the differences between the US and UK's health care systems, gun laws, and to some extent politics are like night and day, but come now! "Two very different countries?" That's a bit of a stretch don't you think? The way you talk, its as if the US may as well be a nation on Mars!! We (the people not the leadership!), still (truely!) hate war and don't look for ways to start them, want to see people brought out of poverty to lead successful lives full of happyness and hope, are extremely worried about global warming! and yes, enjoy the ocasional escape of a great song or film.
Complain about this comment
I heard that the military code does allow one to disobey illegal orders and commands one to uphold the constitution.
This order would be both. so why does he not have the authority.
Gates shows he has some brains.
(he always seemed more professional)
Complain about this comment
DC well reminded I had almost forgotten how religious Tony was(remember before the election it was used against him).
Still I voted natural Law party rather than vote him in.
(yes that was a wasted vote but at least they had said ONE thing I agreed with.)
And none of the others had.
Then I'm a luddite
Complain about this comment
David Cunard #55: Wishing for an athest president, seriously? Keep dreaming!! The evangelical vote makes up 25 percent of the electorite, and many of them vote on their faith, not the issues they believe in or that concern them. I doubt very much that an athest would be able to convince them to come on board enough to win them the white house, but I despritly hope some day I'm wrong! But don't slam Bush's faith over the war in Iraq-I think it unfair!! Granted he shouldn't've said what he said about "God telling him to go in"-that's just stupid!!! Leaders of a faith if they feel it necessary and a source of comfort to pray or something should certainly do so I believe, just so long as they don't let their faith cloud their better judgement!! That's What Bush did, I believe regarding Iraq!! He confused his personal desires for "God's". But I digress, please don't brand all faiths as "evil and out dated" just because of a couple of bad apples!!
Complain about this comment
C_Aurora #25
"Healing is far more about the person than about the toys and gadgets used."
Your statement makes about as much sense as faith healing and other voodoo theories of disease. That is why you dismiss the most advanced medical technology in human history as "toys." Those toys are ferquently the difference between life and death. The correct procedure or medication is what cures. The wrong ones no matter how big the smile on the faces of those who administer them don't.
RalphMa #27
"Marcus, _no_ government or intelligence service is "to be trusted" -- deception is a critical part of their work. Hence, the Iraq war."
Considering the degree to which America's safety depends on them, we'd better hope you're wrong. I think you are.
David_Cunard #36
More of your usual prattle;
"#25.MarcusAureliusII: Apparently you either cannot read or your comprehension abilities are seriously flawed: "Every President gets a vast array of information and opinions and then decides for himself what course of action his branch of government will follow." What is that if not taking advice from others?"
Which others? In the end, the President decides. That is why we elect him. His advisors are not a monolith of one opinion. He doesn't even necessarily need to listen to a consensus. The notion that he is "required" to follow advice is not only absurd, it is dead wrong. It doesn't work that way. If it had, Kennedy would have nuked Cuba in October 1962. That is what most of his advisors told him to do.
"With regard to the invasion of Iraq, the ostensible reason was to disarm it of weapons of mass destruction, not a change of government."
Wrong again Mr. Cunard. The term "regime change" wasn't invented and used in 2002 to refer to the regime in Sri Lanka or Togoland. BTW, in matters of national security, that has the number one priority for America's federal budget. That is why it is by far its largest single component. But you are right. Imagine how much free medical care America could have provided its citizens if it hadn't wasted trillions of dollars on military equipment and personnel to defend Western Europe from the USSR for 50 years. What a mistake that was.
"The NHS has its problems, but not "utter incompetence, indadequacy, and failure . ." Considering that it serves 60 million people it does quite well. At least medical help IS available, as a right, to everyone regardless of means, whereas those in the US have absolutely nothing, zilch."
Wrong as usual Mr. Cunard. Just read DougTexan's posting #35. That is reality, not the myth you want to believe. If health care under the NHS is so good, why is it a major bone of contention in virtually EVERY episode of PMQT?
"Incidentally, one of the most useful weapons in the diagnostic arsenal is the CAT scanner - a British invention"
Hooray, score one for the Brits. It seems we've got them in every town. We've also got a much more powerful diagnostic tool in every town too, MRI.
"likewise the discovery of penicillin which, together with its derivatives, has saved countless lives."
Think of the millions of lives lost between the time Fleming discovered it and the time it was accepted. As is often the case in Europe, innovation is regarded with suspicion and rejection....unless it is a new law or treaty. Oops, I forgot, the EU Constitution and Lisbon Treaty were rejected. My bad.
Complain about this comment
re: #55 David_Cunard
"Unless he's completely isolated in the The White House . . ."
It has been reported from various sources (people who've interviewed him, "anonymous sources", and former associates) that he tends not to read any newspapers/newsmagazines, tends not to watch any news/current events related TV programs, and doesn't even like to read reports but relies on briefings from close aides for virtually all information he uses for all decisions. Bush himself said at a news conference that he doesn't read newspapers and has no interest in polls because it is history, and not contemporary opinion, which is the most important judge of his presidency.
On trips in the US, it has been reported that his staff (and the Secret Service) take great pains to keep him from protesters and demonstrations. Further, virtually all of his appearances and speeches are made at "friendly" venues (e.g., military installations, groups of known supporters, etc.) or at venues where his staff has the opportunity to select who gets to be present. At other venues, where his staff cannot ensure that only supportive attendees are present, "free speech zones" for protesters and sign wavers and wearers of "unfriendly" T-shirts are set up several blocks away and out of view from the appearance site; hecklers are routinely detained by SS/police and forcibly removed.
On foreign trips, I believe that normal protocol is to minimize exposure of foreign dignitaries to "unpleasant" situations, such as demonstrations and protests. This isn't unique to Bush, however.
Complain about this comment
DougTexan (#35): Wonderful comparison to European/Japaneese/British crime! While I disagree with you on gun controll, for Europeans to just simply say, '"Bad US!! You kill more people because you have guns!!" Well yes, but don't kid yourselves, knives kill just about as many people as guns, and it is my understanding that knife crime has skyrocketed in the UK since guns were banned there after the Dunblane shooting. So as you can see, guns, unlike health care, aren't so much of a black and white issue!! And Justin, I am so glad that you aren't bigotted and judgementle as many of the posters on the Guns debate seem to be!! Thank you for seeing things fairly and looking at the issue from both sides; a mark of a true reporter!!
Complain about this comment
So you'll still think it's better here in the states with the flashy hospitals that no one can afford.
Can you send donations to my friend who has just been "let go" and now has no insurance.
Their crime? to take time off for 2 weeks when recovering from chemo.
No job . no insurance. no finished treatment.
Hmo are the slave masters.
Do we have to look at those statistics again.
America spends 2.5 times as much(per capita) but actually only gives that to 84 %
and that's being generous the numbers who actually get health care they can afford to pay the co pay on is even less.
so probably find america spends 2.5 times as much on 75% of the population.
wow some of you are doing well out of this arrangement.
I suggest all those who does not think it sucks.
Complain about this comment
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
and just think if flemming had started vaccinating people cause it seemed OK.
you yourself pointed out he consequences of thalidomide. and I of Vioxx which was released without full thought.
And doug my friend from texas says
"Texas is a nice place to be FROM"
Guns ain't the problem it's the idiots that use them.
No one hunts with a hand gun.
Not many hunt with an assault rifle.
And GW would have given you a needle even if you were on holiday in Majorca that week.
Complain about this comment
If health care under the NHS is so good, why is it a major bone of contention in virtually EVERY episode of PMQT?
because they have a health care system.
there is no debate in the "senate" because your senate doesn't give a rats faeces if the peasants die.
Complain about this comment
jacksforge
I see your point. You've made it clear that at the very least we are not spending enough on mental health.
Complain about this comment
#56. NoRashDecisions "Two very different countries?" In many respects they are - for a start there's the geography, a far smaller country than the contiguous USA, with 60 million residents and growing. There's been the flirtation with Socialism and state ownership of essential industries, largely a failure in the long term excepting, perhaps, the railways, which seemed more efficient under British Rail. The National Health Service is a holdover from that and its success is that it provides basic (and frequently) more service to more people than any other government exercise. There are more closed circuit TV cameras per capita than anywhere else in the world and a mass of very petty legislation giving power to community workers to place on-the-spot fines for those who drop a potato crisp/chip or fill their garbage/wheelie bins too high. On top of that (and more) is the disastrous introduction of 'multiculturalism', the aim of which is not to integrate immigrants into their new country, but to encourage them to maintain their national identity. Here in California we see government documents (election materials etc) issued in English and Spanish; in Britain there can be as many as nine languages! It's not America that's on Mars, but Britain, so great are the changes.
#60. MarcusAureliusII. I can't tell if you are being deliberately obtuse or whether you cannot understand simple English. You ask "what others" - the answer being "the vast array of information and opinions" - all of which inevitably come from the mouths of those around the President. I didn't say/write that he is *required* to implement the advice tendered, but that he was bound to seek it. President Bush certainly did use the phrase 'regime change' in the lead up to the invasion of Iraq, but to say that was not the primary aim but rather to remove WMDs - of which we now know there were none.
About DougTexan's posting #35; he wrote "I'm an underpaid sheetrocker, high dedutable insurance and little money." So he does have medical insurance, unlike many who cannot afford even that. I suggest you read before your write.
Incidentally, since you acknowledge Britain's development of CT scans, despite Raymond Damadian's contribution to MRI, I believe that the Scottish University of Aberdeen was the originator of the method.
Lastly, you are wrong about the Lisbon Treaty; the Prime Minister, Gordon Brown, signed it for the United Kingdom but the Republic of Ireland rejected it in a referendum. The "instruments of ratification" have yet to be sent to Rome and, at least for the moment, the Treaty is unenforceable. Had there been a British referendum, as was promised, I have no doubt the result would have been the same as that from across the Irish Sea.
Complain about this comment
67. At 05:33am on 03 Jul 2008, MarcusAureliusII wrote:
jacksforge
I see your point. You've made it clear that at the very least we are not spending enough on mental health.
We agree.after all if they could afford a decent blacksmith maybe the gates would keep you in.
Complain about this comment
And doug texan how much do you earn as a sheetrock worker?
$8 an hour.or $10
Complain about this comment
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7485910.stm
Amazing health care?
Complain about this comment
Just to throw another variable in the mix,
I suggest that pundits on this blog investigate
the link between lead exposure and crime:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/07/AR2007070701073.html
Complain about this comment
Justin, I wanted to point out that its not just the 'very very poor' that would prefer to have the UK system, but the very very rich that would prefer the current system in the US. Remember, one has to be healthy and work full-time for a large employer to afford health insurance.
I don't know what exactly makes the American system so expensive. One could wait months before seeing a specialist. There is no guarantee that one will have access to a doctor while at the hospital. I paid 500 for two minutes with a registered nurse. I hope that the health industry is reformed. So if the UK system is not doing well, don't privatize it, just make sure that it is funded and well managed.
Complain about this comment
How do martial arts help if your opponent has a gun and a finger? Also, Intercourse presumably because they could have a nice conversation.
Complain about this comment
david_cunard
The US intelligence "community" comprises a vast number of people in many agencies which amass and process huge volumes of information from countless sources around the world continuously. They analyze it, distill it, sumarize it, and it works it way to the President who cannot possibly hear all of it. But he inevitably gets a range of opinions. These come not only from Cabinet members whom Congress must approve but from huge numbers of career civil servants whose jobs are not political. To suggest that the President does not get a range or views our would be better informed reading newspapers or watching news reports on television is absurd. The one exception might have been Katrana where he was clearly let down for about two days. In fact, the major damage to New Orleans was not do to the hurricane itself but from the failure of the levees around lake Poncetrain. Local, State, and Federal governments knew about the likelihood of those failures and the consequences for at least forty years and did nothing. That's where the blame for the disaster lies. Could the US not have built a dyke system as effective as Holland's? Rescue should have begun Tuesday morning at daybreak. Instead it didn't begin until Thursday noon, about 60 hours late. As a result, the Republican party lost control of both houses of Congress. As for the war in Iraq, President Bush acted on the same intelligence available to Congress and came to the same conclusions. We still to this day don't know if it was right or wrong but there was a mountain of intelligence. Some of it may have been lies but certainly not all of it. Intellligence gathering and assessment is not a perfect science. And making a mistake is different from telling a lie no matter how opponents of the invasion want to paint either the intelligence community or the President as criminals. Expecting that the decision was made on only one or a few pieces of evidence is also absurd. Regime change in Iraq became Ameican policy because it was clear that despite the terms of the 1991 truce which ended the war over Kuwait, Iraq was determined to acquire WMDs anyway. Proof? Revelation of the Iraqi nuclear weapons program in 1995 that neither the UN inspectors nor anyone else outside of Iraq knew about. Why should the US trust its security to an organization which proved itself incompetent and just kept demonstrating it over and over again. Real or a smoke screen put up by Saddam Hussein deliberately that backfired, the US could not and cannot afford to allow those types of threats to grow indefinitely. The only question about Iran is when will the threat seem grave enough for it to act. Anyone around the world who thinks it or any international body can restrain the US from taking action in protecting itself from these threats is delusional. Ultimately, each nation is a law unto itself. So called international law flies out the window when it does not serve the vital interests of a nation.
I really don't know who invented the CT scanner. I know when I worked at Varian in Palo Alto California they were manufacturing them there. I didn't bother to research it. Often complex equipment like this is the result of a collaborative effort where there are many contributors to different pieces of the technology that evolves. Usually these are the result of work at major corporatons and large universities with government backing. Only they have the resourses to fund such a complex and speculative effort.
At least you admit that had the UK citizens had an opportunity to vote on the crucial decision of Lisbon affecting their basic governance, they would likely have rejected the Lisbon Treaty and I think the Constitution. This is more proof of what I said all along, the UK government which is held up as a model of European democracy by other europeans is no democracy at all, its government does not represent the will of its people. And what's more, the fact that they passively accept this is proof that they don't really value democracy. In fact they don't even understand what it means.
Do I have to say it again? The American medical system is not broken, only the system of paying for it is. By any standards anywhere, it is lavish in its equipment, resources, and thoroughness in applying the best technology available. If it were rationed based on anything including money, people would be dying like flies. The well publicized horror story of the woman who died on the floor of the emergency room in an LA hospital is a rare exception. That is why it made national news for days. And I am sure it resulted in both criminal investigations and civil litigation.
How much do they pay sheetrockers in Britain and France? $50 an hour? How much is it worth to cut a piece of sheet rock and screw it to wood or metal studs? This isn't rocket science and does not require a PHD. It can be taught to anyone of normal intelligence in a matter of a few days at most. That it pays so well in Europe, is probably protected by laws which don't allow them to be laid off when a project is done or they don't perform well, and supports and commands a cradle to grave social safety net more lavish than any other in the world by far is one reason why Western Europe simply can't compete. It's an entire continent of overpaid over taxed over regulated antidemocratic xenophobic know nothings. They make easy fodder on blogs like this by just pointing out their contradictons with the real world as expressed in the news every day.
Complain about this comment
jacksforge...in case you didn't get it....I was referring to....well why don't you just have a look in the mirror.
Complain about this comment
Hey ya'll, here in Texas sheetrockers make up to $25 ah hour, and the insurance comes from wifes employment, and the combined income is close to 85 grand a year. It wasn't always so easy for us, we have four children and two with Miscular dystrophy, our medical bills after the last reached eighteen topped $250,000.00. Yep, bankruptcy, no ther way out. Six years later we got our lifes back with no credit and a mobile home. Nobody gave us anything, food and shelter were done with hard work and many hours. Thank God for the Scottish Rite Hospital. To us, family survival was number one priority
No, we also don't smoke ciggarettes at fifty dollars a week each, don't drink to excess. No vacations and few extras but to be with my wife and see my children smile makes the world go round. Amen
Complain about this comment
thankyou doug , now for anyone out there who does not live in the US that is 2.5 times min wage, which is what they pay many, unless they can get away with less.
try again doug but on 10 dollars an hour.
Then you will not love this country too much longer.
Skilled certified welders get UP TO 15 bucks in Oregon. and they are doing well.
But thanks for replying. and I would pray for a miricle for your Kids.
good luck to them.
Have you ever considered what will happen to them if you loose your benifits?
Complain about this comment
Oh and bancrupcy laws have changed. or did you not hear that?
Complain about this comment
Could the US not have built a dyke system as effective as Holland's?
because they are too busy worried about gay marriage.
Complain about this comment
As for the war in Iraq, President Bush acted on the same intelligence available to Congress and came to the same conclusions.
Not unless they are on the SIC.
Don't insult others professions.
you would take so long to sheet a house the people would be downsizing before they move in.
As yet you have yet to ever succesfully argue anything, using lies and your own opinion to back up your trash.
You are Xenophobic anti democratic ,in the extream. you believe the president can act (in the direction of war) just because he thinks it fun.
you also have stated a total hatred of all except war mongering americans.
So
keep taking the vioxx
You ahve consistantly shown an imature spoit brats approach to logic and reasoning, what is more have been shown the error of your thoughts by numerous bloggers, but each time resort to.BLAH B:AH europe style posts.
If you are dumb enough to think the UK is a beacon of democracy you are crazy.
But not as crazy as if you believe the US is.
"I really don't know who invented the CT scanner. I know when I worked at Varian in Palo Alto California they were manufacturing them there. I didn't bother to research it. "
But you just said it was a yankee pride thing. again is that because you were making up your reality again.
As for the evidence for war, again fi Europe is so bad , and If the UK is so useless,
WHY LISTEN TO THEIR INTELLIGENCE.
PS the UK version did say that there was some question to the allegations within but those doubts were removed by the US administration.
It was the president and his staff that left out some important info.
The abillity to read reports well is something all presidents should have.
Hillary Clinton failed.
GW failed,
As for Tony , well maybe he is just evil or deluded, like I say I never voted for the jerk.
But guess what, the people of the UK do not really like him that much either.
I see Gates is not the only one warning all to stop talking of attacks.
of course those that get the health care have more spent on them so may get somewhat cleaner hospital. it's the rest that I care about.
Complain about this comment
jacksforge (#63): asks, '"Can you send donations to my friend who has just been "let go" and now has no insurance. Their crime? to take time off for 2 weeks when recovering from chemo.
No job . no insurance. no finished treatment. Hmo are the slave masters."
Sure!! No problem!! What's their name and E-mail address? I'm serious!! This should never have happen!! Its obviously a very sad fact that the US government can't just simply pass a law and force all US employers to give their employees X amount of vacation/holiday leave, sick leave etc like the UK government can do ( I'm so jealous!!), but for an employer to fire someone just for trying to get better from cancer, that's rediculous!!! Seriously give me this person's information! My blood is boiling!!
Complain about this comment
David Cunard (#68): Well yes, geographical differences go without saying and so does population differences. And I honestly don't think that the difference between geographical size of the two countries, along with population differences are fair comparisons, as there is a striking difference between all countries on geography and population (perhaps barring China and India on population, and the US and Canada on geography.) And besides, you never hear of a lively blog debate such as this one on the difference between the population of the US and that of the UK, or the geographical size of Germany compared to that of Italy or Russia, do you? Most people around the world just accept those differences for what they are.
I'm not going to get back into the debate on the National Health Service with you again-you know where I stand on the UK health system, universal health care in general, and the US's system.
Regarding "petty fines", as you put it in the UK. I'm sorry, but (barring the garbage/wheele bin fine) I don't understand why they are so bad. The way you describe them I don't think they're too intrusive at all!!. What's wrong with wanting to protect the environment? What people put in their garbage bins is no body's business, but littering is a whole different story!! In Maryland (where I'm from) if one litters, they get a $1000 fine. Its a deturant not to litter.
Finally regarding multiculturilism. As in the 21st century , as national boundries become less and less rellivant, shouldn't people welcome people from other countries and see their arrival as one that enriches and strengthens their nation as aposed to burdans, hinders, and weakens it? You say, '"On top of that (and more) is the disastrous introduction of 'multiculturalism', the aim of which is not to integrate immigrants into their new country, but to encourage them to maintain their national identity. Here in California we
see government documents (election materials etc) issued in English and Spanish; in Britain there can be as many as nine languages!" Now granted if one moves to another country, the polite, proper, respectful thing for them to do would be for them to try to intigrate as best they could into their new society. But if there are certain huge parts of them, such as religion or language that they simply just can't disguard, shouldn't the government of which one is immigrating to try its best to bring those traditions and charictoristics into its societyal fabric? It just seems fair, don't you think? I don't personally see anything wrong with having multiple languages available in the UK for new immigrants to choose from on government documents so that they may understand the material. I think the US would do well to follow its lead!! They'll learn English probably soon enough, and don't you think that they're going through enough without having to add on top of all that having learn English so that they can asimilate the second they arrive? There are stories of immigrants to the US who didn't speek a word of English and have been helped and given translations until they eventually did. And besides! Its not that the US forces immigrants to learn English when they get here-as you said, there are Spanish translations of government documents!! Its just simply that the US is fortionate to be in a hemosphere where Spanish is the other main language spoken, and which has, as you've seen, infultrated the US's society. The UK, on the other hand, being a part of the European Union, must unfortionately grapple with I've heard up to 40 languages in its midst!! If the roles were switched, I'm sure the US government would act much the same way the UKgovernment does.
Complain about this comment
#61. peterm99 President Bush "relies on briefings from close aides for virtually all information he uses for all decisions." In which case he's virtually a puppet president. If what you write is anywhere near accurate, I find it reprehensible that he would not seek a wider view of the world and the policies he proposes. To rely on those who possibly have their own agenda is lazy and dangerous. I can understand that the late President Reagan would, towards the end of his tenure, seek only the input of trusted advisors, simply because of his age and the (possible) onset of dementia, but for Mr Bush, who is substantially younger and (as far as we know) not in poor health either physically or mentally, then that borders on the abdication of his responsibilities. I hope that, contrary to what you write, that the President is aware of the bad news along with the good.
Complain about this comment
Justin and #74,
I did not mention martial arts as an alternative thinking that we should all be kung fu fighters.
I mentioned it because many decisions about self-protection seem to be based on deep-rooted fear (which brings to mind how fear has been has been played upon in recent elections but that's another topic).
Calmness or cool-headedness, avoiding an un-necessary conflict becasue the other person is simply more juvenile, 'reading' a situation, controlling fear and how it triggers our natural "flight or flight" rush and how that escalates trouble, well those are all skills that are in short supply on US urban roads, that I think are also relevant to this debate.
I meant that these skills or thought processes should be employed during the decision whether or not to get a concealed carry permit and make a handgun part of daily life, so tha tit is a rational not an emotional or fearful decision.
40 people per million per year in USA are vicitims of gun homicide (posted in 'gun crazy' topic).
We had a 'war on cancer' and still regulate new pollution sources to keep their added cancer risk below 1 in 1 million.
Something doesn't add up, probably a mix of emotions about daily threats and gun control, economic disparity in jobs and opportunity, the curse of drugs, the huge throughput in our jail population, the glorification of violence in popular (TV games music) culture, and an 'action-movie' reading of history, to name a few factors. I'd like to see this violence in our society addressed at its root causes - not at the peripeheral symptoms or details of gun control.
I'd like to hear rational, not emotional or anecdotal, arguments for more or less gun control and the recent rise in concealed carry.
Complain about this comment
#61/84 - There is food for thought in the Washington Post - a bit long, but worth reading.
Complain about this comment
I am not sure what you mean by isolated. Are you refering to the fact we don't get to Europe that much or knowledge of the world outside the U.S.
I actually think the opposite, I think the average U.S citizen not the Moonbats are actually are open to a far wider range of media than anywhere in the world. From what I have seen and heard and I've been to Europe several times. Europeans especially college students are among the most naive.
Complain about this comment
re: #86 David_Cunard
Interesting article. Thanks.
That reminds me a lot of many problems former military officers have following retirement and accepting jobs as industry mid- and senior-level executives. A common complaint about them is that they are so used to complete "obedience" to their orders, that they don't follow up things with subordinates to the extent often necessary in civilian organizations. Chaos often ensues.
The article also certainly _supports_ the ". . . briefings from close aides . . ." info I had read somewhere a while ago with an example or two, but can't be considered as confirmation, of course.
Complain about this comment
Hey jacksforge, looks like a Yank invented the CT scanner independently at the same time as EMI. From Wikipedia;
"The first commercially viable CT scanner was invented by Sir Godfrey Newbold Hounsfield in Hayes, United Kingdom at EMI Central Research Laboratories using X-rays. Hounsfield conceived his idea in 1967, and it was publicly announced in 1972. Allan McLeod Cormack of Tufts University, Massachusetts, USA independently invented a similar process, and both Hounsfield and Cormack shared the 1979 Nobel Prize in Medicine."
Since you say that the only thing keeping you in the US is your pet, if it died or didn't have to wait in quarrantine for 6 months, would you go back to the UCK? BTW, what kind of pet did you say you have, a boa constrictor?
Complain about this comment
he was a south african. you idiot.
Complain about this comment
and if you died I might go back quicker. take a bottle jerk.
Complain about this comment
I've had people (no end of them) tell me they have a cheap solution to my pet problem.
and they all get the same answer.
so why do you not come to oregon. come to eugene and come to me and see how well you do with that line.
Did I get a little too close to the truth in your history that I posted?
And you still ahven't figured out what oet it is.
Erronious moronous.
Complain about this comment
no rash 82
thank you but It is not my medical details, so unfortunately no specific response is possible.
but remember this does happen to others I am sure there is one in your community.
Often they fight cancer and work , while in great discomfort, to keep on the insurance.
The work interestingly enough is often possibly the very thing that caused the cancer.
I also know several welders with serious problems but no health care.
that is something ALL have missed in the healthcare debate.
health care extends to making the workplace safe.
Something totally lacking in the USA with the toothless OSHA.
Oh and I agree about the "petty fines" .
the other side of this is america (or italy) whereyou can throw what you like where you like. and no one cares.
rotting vegitation in recycle bins wastes a whole load in some cases.
and rooting vegies belong in a composting system.
Unless you have worked in a recycling yard or city dump then you probably have little clue as to how this could effect the process.
Thin plastic bags cause thousands of dollars of damage to recycling plants that have to be closed and cleaned them restarted because people forget plastic bags do not belong in the recycle.
Complain about this comment
as to multi culturalism and urdu and other languages on the form in the UK.
they also have to have all the EU countries language as well, nothing to do with anything but E U.
nah I think it's great they allow all thse languagess, see it is a result of the COLONIAL system. Now we have to print for the old colonial languages and dialects.
Think how hard it is, some cannot even pass a degree in a foreign language even though well educated and not facing constant discrimination.
Complain about this comment
86 kirkin.
neive.
wow you must live in europe , and have not met american students.
having 20000 channels of celebrity news on the gogle box is not the same as being
"open to a far wider range of media than anywhere in the world"
Complain about this comment
jacksforge wrote:
86 kirkin.
neive.
wow you must live in europe , and have not met american students.
having 20000 channels of celebrity news on the gogle box is not the same as being
"open to a far wider range of media than anywhere in the world"
Justin's premise is that American have an isolated view of the world. I am disputing that because we have 4 cable news networks plus 3 nightly news and far more national newspapers than any nation in the world.
And I stand by the ignorance claim about European students who think Hezbollah is not a terrorist orginization and that Obama is the second coming
Complain about this comment
jacksforge
No I haven't figured out what "oet" means. Has anyone else here got a clue what oet is or what jacksforfe is talking about? I assume that's your pet. Is oet an abbreviation? Is it in a foreign language? Now what do you suppose it could mean? Is it in urdu? Is it an orange eastern turtle?
So you mean to say you really are a US citizen and are allowed to vote? So which side won the American Revolution, the right side or the wrong side? Which side should have won, the right side or the British side?
Now why would I want to visit Eugene Oregon? What in Eugene could possibly be worth the trip? A buch of old geezers sitting around chewing straw on their rocking chairs yammering about how unfair the world is? Maybe oet means Oregonian Eugenian tarantula. Is that your pet?
Complain about this comment
M erronious i have let any typing problems and spelling problems pass. they have been there.
but as always you must try to find something, for your arguments are pathetically weak.
in fact non existent.
your pissed that I corrected you as to the greatness of america again.
you think anything financed by the states means they invented it.
as to majerkin
I am disputing that because we have 4 cable news networks plus 3 nightly news and far more national newspapers than any nation in the world.
NATIONAL papers with little international news.
and all so scared of aipac as to be useless.
and a democratically elected organisation is not a terrorist organisation ,any more than the TERRORISTS that are AMERICANS.
Your boundless bias assumptions that americans and Israel are right and the rest can hang does not make it right.
morally or factually.
Why today the lone killer in a bulldozer is about to have his house demolished.
HE'S DEAD.(was probably having a heart attack not trying to kill any one, for all I know)
so why destroy the building. because the israeli's behave like a bunch of terrorists.
As does the US gov.and many of it's people.
Anyone who says Israel does not deserve great condemnation is a aipac lacky.
And if they were to put those interests infront of the interests of the US would be a traitor.
Complain about this comment
Oregon by the way has some great swimming holes. some nice people. and freedom from you obviously.
But come on tough guy. I'm a hippie willing to take you on Oh self style emperor of wrong. I will debate you, fight you, whatever.
And if you've had enough of me then go to another site.
If not come back with a counter to an argument.
you always just talk about the animal(which you still have not figured out)
which shows how pathetic you are.
Complain about this comment
Oh and makirkin
most in europe care so little about a second coming, that is an american thing.
The evangelicals in the UK and most of europe are not the same as America,
hell they oppose the death penalty.
Complain about this comment
OH HO...jacksforge, you want me to travel an entire continent away so you can "fight" me?" To "take me on?" what a joke. If you mean verbally, I have to pull my punches here or BBC's censors will delete my postings. That's why I've been going easy on you, otherwise you wouldn't get to read any of my replies. Apparantly you haven't figured this out yet which explains why so many of yours get deleted.
It must really kill you to have to admit to yourself that you stay in the US because in fact it is a far far better place than you have ever known or been. But you don't have to admit it here. The mere fact that you are here and would find any excuse not to leave is proof enough.
You really do like to compare the incomparable but you always come out wrong. Whether its the London Times, the Telegraph, or any of the other newspapers in Europe, none can hold a candle to The New York Times. Too bad about the Jason Blair incident a few years back. It was an intolerable stain on their record. That despicable episode aside, it remains above all the rest. And while BBC news may come out on top when you compare it to CNN, Fox News, MSNBC, or the other commercia newsl networks, it comes in as a miserable also ran when it's up against the likes of PBS and NPR for general news coverage and reporting and analysis of specific news areas. In other areas such as those presented in its more specialized areas such as history, science, literature, etc. there are specialized channels and networks here such as the History Channel, Discovery, National Geographic, etc which blow it away.
I'm not surprised that among many of America's detractors are those who hate its special relationship with Israel. But it was Sir Christopher Meyers who said without hesitation in his interview with Owen Bennet-Jones that America has a closer relationship by far with Israel than any other country and that includes the UK. In fact the UK keeps deluding itself that it has a special relationship with the US. Of what possible value is the UK to the US that would make anyone think it is special? The only thing I can think of is that every time the UK gets into real trouble, the US bails it out. I don't expect you to understand either this attachment of the US for Israel or most of the profound realities about American Civilization. In my experience, few if any not born here ever do. And that goes for so called experts like Sir Christopher Meyers. He revealed also during that interview just how shallow his understanding was. What a shame and how disappointing considering he was the UK's ambassador to the US for over 5 years. I expect that Justin Webb will be in exactly the same position. OTOH, if Mr. Webb's youngest son who was born here gets his education here, he will understand it and perhaps one day try to explain it to his father.
Happy 4th of July, the 232 birthday of by far the greatest idea ever invented by the mind of man.
Complain about this comment
Again the erronious claptrap.
You have yet to ever prove any thing or even argue beyond insults.
The PBS and NPR are very regular in the programs that point out similar things to me. do we have to bring on the link wars here.
The charlie rose interviews, the health care woes , the drug mistake.
I have consistently linked to PBS and NPR.
If you would watch anything other than the 700 club you would have seen all the same programs I saw on NPR and PBS.
By the way the BBC and ITN are the biggest reporting sources on both these channels.
You are a marooned, you went down this path before in an argument and yet at the end when all said and done you had to resort to your insult the pet line again.
You are pathetic.
on this the national day you're here getting vexed. LOL.
As to the Huge number of modded comments.How many did get modded today , you must have been slipping big time.:)
Mine get modded for suggesting a pass time decriminalised in holland and legal here with a card.
yours probably because you rude.
By the way all those nature documentaries done by the BBC and other british studios are all over US TV.
But then you are one for appropriating others stuff , idea's.
As for Mr Meyers,
despite being one of the only political appointments in the F.O., he seemed like a really smart insightful man.
He is courteous and intelligent with little sarcasm.
he also said I did some nice work so what the hell I'm a little bias.
He's a nice guy and he called it well.
Do not underestimate the British understanding of the USA.
with the exception of very few people you are one of the most ununderstanding I have ever heard of.
Do you dislike him for daring to tell the truth, as that is what you hate the most.
Complain about this comment
700 club now there's a news organisation for the europeans to learn about.
this TV evangelical station that comes on ALL the major networks during the day. start on one for 3 or 4 then moves on , and on. appears on NBC ABC and CBS.
sometimes the news has topics none of the american stuff touches on , thats true.
they quite factually talk about evangelical hope for the end.
the weirdest show in america, worse than Jerry springer in some ways.
and yet sometimes when it comes to talk of GM foods and cloned meats really on the ball.
(they say what the hell is this).
But VERY christian.
"Christian broadcasting company"
But wow they turn up all the time on TV here.
Thankfully not on NPR and PBS .
or the BBC
Complain about this comment
jacksforge, if your attention span was more than five minutes, you would see that after the summary of the news in which BBC and ITN newsfilm are sometimes used, and occasionally in setup pieces, PBS nightly news is a roundtable discussion with the most knowledgeable experts in each of the issues it explores. It examines the best arguments and point of view without rancor and without taking sides. It lets the audience decide for itself. Contrast that with the trash and debates with interviewees BBC routinely presents as what it jokingly refers to as news. It's almost impossible to tell on BBC where the facts leave off and their opinions begin.
Yes all of the warts in American society are exposed in public in the news and on programs like Charle Rose who by the way is in my opinion the best interviewer in the world. This is part of the way the public becomes informed and demands changes and improvements from its government. In other countries like the UK, problems are covered up until one day when they are so out of control, they explode into the news. Then you find out the carpet is hiding so much dirt swept under it, the situation is beyond redemption. The NHS appears to be a case in point and now with this new EU ruling, it will have to compete with better systems on an equal footing. They are scared to death the entire UK population will flee to the continent to search for better medical care. How will they deal with it? Right now they are somewhere between denial and fighting it.
Meyers may be a nice guy, polite, affable but in his interview with Owen Bennet-Jones he revealed how little he actually knows about the US. In what was an astonishing question which seemed to burst out of Bennet-Jones from deep down in his gut, he asked Meyers; "Why are they so rich?" I almost fell out of my chair when I heard this. Meyers answer was that "they were there first." Excuse me but Europe had been a thiving civilization for over a thousand years before America was even discovered and the industrial revolution began in Britain, not the US. The real answer...because their civilization is far superior to anyone elses and is among other things the greatest engine for producing and distributing wealth that has ever existed.
BBC participates in some of the documentaries made by other networks shown on American television. They get their name in the trailer at the end. "A co-producton of The Public Broadcasting System and BBC." But most of the documentaries and other productions on the other networks like the History Channel and National Geographic are made pretty much exclusively by Americans.
By the way, I have never seen the 700 Club. Why would I? I'm an atheist.
Complain about this comment
If you watch news hour how do you end up so wrong on so many issues.
Again your ability to not comprehend any thing is quite amazing.
Glad your having a nice day.
Why watch the 700 club, as an atheist you should. they are the enemy.
Know your enemy.
As an atheist how come your so in to Israel and it's "rights" they are only quoted as religious rights even by the most extreme. They say they have the right as the land is theirs given by GOD.
Americans Under GOD ,you crazy guy
I would never swear an oath to the Queen or to God .
you however MR moral american
"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
Under GOD ,allegiance to the flag.
well the flags wrong from gods point of view and God's wrong from the flags point of view.
you have pledged this allegiance haven't you?
which line did you leave out.
Complain about this comment
You also pledged allegience jacksforge when you became an American citizen. I guess your pledge doesn't mean much.
It is typical, maybe inevitable for the European mind to be tyrannical and intolerant of points of view other than their own. That's why they've spent the last couple of thousand years killing each other. I really wish we'd go back to heeding Washington's warning and leave them to go at each other again. Of all the places in the world to be for American soldiers, Europe should be the last place they'd ever go.
I don't consider people who believe in God as my enemy. You see that's your problem, anyone who doesn't agree with you even if they are no threat is the enemy. This is the mark of a tyrant.
The American flag is the symbol of the reason you are not living in Britain. It is just a symbol. I don't agree with those who would make it a crime to burn it in protest. Apparantly neither does the Supreme Court. Burning a symbol, a piece of cloth is a matter of free speech. Ironically, the only way to legally dispose of a worn out American flag is to burn it. That law is undoubtedly unconstitutional too but it's probably never been tested.
Why do I support Israel's right to exist and defend itself in any manner it sees fit? Because its population is largely descended from one of Europe's most pathetic victims, passive harmless people who wanted nothing more than to be allowed to live their lives in peace but were villified, beaten, tortured, and murdered en masse for no rational reason in what can only be described as beastial behavior by an entire continent of what I consider no different from rabid animals. BTW, that's also why a lot of Europeans escaped to America. Probably over a hundred million of them.
Complain about this comment
and when they escaped did they leave the demons behind. I think not . in you there is proof.
God and godly people have never been my enemy.
"You also pledged allegience jacksforge when you became an American citizen. "
when exactly was I not an american citizen.
in order to become I would have to be otherwise.
And you have constantly slammed christians , and muslims .
So some would say you fear God or Hate God.
and they also came here so they could kill almost all the origional inhabitants. most of which happened after independance.
many heard there was money to be made.
many were not Jewish in any way, Certainly not the Irish that the English sent abroad,
or the socialists they sent abroad.
forcibly .
no doubt about that.
But today old emperor of the wrong, today america is not an Ideal state by ANY means and as such you the YANK who always starts by saying how it is europes fault for starting it all . for being around longer than the states, how america has right to destroy any in its way, to use ALL the worlds resources.
It is you that embodies all that is sick in the USA.
It is you that forgets your oath.
your pledge. I never went to an american school. you did. you said the oath.
to the Flag of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. not the star of David.
Give it up. if your people had behaved like you through out history then it would be no wonder that they got treated so bad.
I have never seen that so still do wonder how it happened.
but if I met you I would surely not wonder anymore.
Complain about this comment
oh and if they are all from europe what right do they have to the middle east?
Complain about this comment
jacksforge
What right does anyone have to the Middle East? What right do you have to live on land in Eugene Oregon once occupied by Indians? What right do Englishmen to land once held by Druids? It doesn't matter. Your sense of what is just and unjust doesn't count. That their ancient ancestors once lived there and were forced off the land doesn't matter. That their more recent ancestors owned much property in Europe that was stolen from them when they were murdered doesn't mean they are going to get it back either. Today is today, now is now. They live there, they own it, and they will defend it because they have no place else to run from those who would kill them. And if they must die there, they have the power and will surely use it to take the entire rest of humanity with them. Think about that, no matter where in the world someone lives, those people now have the power to make live on this earth uninhabitable for any humans. Why wouldn't they after what they've been through? I wouldn't like it...but I'd understand it.
Complain about this comment
Uh the druids were britons.
the palistinians had farm in the family for centuries until 60 years ago the Zionists took them using terrorist tactics.
And I am not telling the indians they cannot have their land. I believe they own america so what right would I have to say leave.
And if they must die there, they have the power and will surely use it to take the entire rest of humanity with them.
I never read that in the bible. "If you are my favoured people let it be said that all shall be struck down for opposing your denial of my love."
as for trying to justify Israel destroying the world . you are giving Ahmadinnasbad the best excuse in the world to develope nukes.
and by the way, if you think anti semitism(in the modern miss use of anti zionist) is bad now ,and in the past just wait till Israel starts acting unilaterally .or using nukes.
No nation would be attacked but Hitler will look like a wimp,compared to the wrath they will face.
You are a war mongering idiot.
and no friend of any jew or american.
and funny I say you got kicked from french school.
(which turns out was true, whatever your excuses).
so far I have done pretty well at guessing your times.
shame you are not so good at guessing where i come from.
more than enough clues.
I did leave the UK of my own choice.
and I did end up in the US where seeing as I am a national, I still am.
but I can go back you however have built such walls in your head you will be lucky to glimpse the real world again.
and no european gov would let you in I suspect.
By the way it was not Obama that changed what he said, but the commentators out there .
they don't own it .It owns them.
BTW.
And your owned by them.
SLAVE.
Complain about this comment
jacksforge, I left France by choice. And I could go back there anytime I want...so long as I bring an American Express Card with me. But why would I want to? I detest Europe. The more I've learned about it over my lifetime, the more convinced I am that the whole place is a fraud, a miserable sham whose history includes more crimes and more horrible crimes against humanity than all of the rest of human race in all history combined. There's hardly a corner of the earth it left untouched with its savagery. Seeing it with my own eyes was....a real eye opener. Has it occurred to you or haven't you read any real American history to know that America was invented as an "anti-Europe." That alone would guarantee the overwhelming success it has enjoyed. How frustrating it must be to you to live in two worlds in your mind, the one you were raised in and taught to worship which has turned out to be an abject failure and the one you live in because life is so much better here for you that you hate it because it rejects what you value in your mind most. Tough. Go away, stay here, who cares?
Sometimes I think the world has forgotten or being so young never understood what nuclear weapons are about. That's why I think it would be a good idea for the world to witness an above ground test of one in some remote place in the Pacific. Maybe a million live witnesses and broadcast on TV around the world. Perhaps it will have a sobering effect. It took years for Red Adair to put out the 900 oil well fires Saddam Hussein's thugs set off in Kuwait before they left. If the oil fields in Iran, or Saudi Araiba are ignited in a nuclear blast, nobody will ever be able to put them out and you'll see a hundred years of global warming in a matter of months. And all it would take would be one direct hit by a nuclear weapon on a power reactor to put enough uranium in the stratosphere to kill every man woman and child on earth within the next ten to twenty years. Each core has 100 tons of enriched uranium. An atom bomb has 20 pounds. Maybe it would make men like Ahmadinejad think like rational men for a moment. if he and his government keep on going the way they have he, he and all the rest of us may be meeting Allah before a whole lot longer. People like you who apologize for him will no more escape it than the rest of us.
Complain about this comment
did you ever hear of the american first nationers.
you americans systematically killed them .
so for you to keep on harping on europe is stupid.
that is all you do.
again the ignorent idiot arises.
america was created as an anti europe.
no it was partly created by the French.
statue of liberty etc.
"How frustrating it must be to you to live in two worlds in your mind, the one you were raised in and taught to worship "
Brits you will find are so much less patriotic than americans.few fly the flag, even fewer drive around with little flags on their windows sticking up fluttering in the wind(as they worsen their gas milage).
Most Broits are aware where they live enough no to have to fly a flag to remind them and all other every day.
what is it I value in my mind most?
and when did america reject it.
I lived my whole life under the threat of Nuke winter.
I saw all those movies , the winter approaches. when the wind blows etc.
Complain about this comment
as for ma
"Sometimes I think the world has forgotten or being so young never understood what nuclear weapons are about. That's why I think it would be a good idea for the world to witness an above ground test of one in some remote place in the Pacific. Maybe a million live witnesses and broadcast on TV around the world. Perhaps it will have a sobering effect. It took years for Red Adair to put out the 900 oil well fires Saddam Hussein's thugs set off in Kuwait before they left. If the oil fields in Iran, or Saudi Araiba are ignited in a nuclear blast, nobody will ever be able to put them out and you'll see a hundred years of global warming in a matter of months. And all it would take would be one direct hit by a nuclear weapon on a power reactor to put enough uranium in the stratosphere to kill every man woman and child on earth within the next ten to twenty years. Each core has 100 tons of enriched uranium. An atom bomb has 20 pounds. Maybe it would make men like Ahmadinejad think like rational men for a moment. if he and his government keep on going the way they have he, he and all the rest of us may be meeting Allah before a whole lot longer. People like you who apologize for him will no more escape it than the rest of us."
It tis you that keeps expressing the desire to nuke Iran. Iraq afganistan,europe etc.
so don't begin to go down the concerned about the world.
Several time including last night you said Israel should preemptivly attack. should escalate thing. should Annihilate the country.
You not me . this is why you prove to be so ,well, thick.
You have written what you think and some how think that we cannot read despite your total lack of ability to comprehend what others write.
yea nukes are a big mistake, should never have been invented.
Now We have them , I think the IAEA should be allowed to monitor them, INCLUDING ISRAELS'.
After all the program of nukes was brought to us by oppenhiemer,einstein , there were a few jewish scientists on that project. so it is not beyond all reasonable doubt (considering the leaked info) to think they have their own.
I worry more about statemnets made by you than Amadinnasbad.
I don't plan to escape anything really.
If Israel can be stopped and america backs down this can be solved. peacefully.
It is you that refuses to give peace a chance.
If they want power(as their excuse) do you not think it would be nice if by now we could be saying, look here's some solar cell technology to power your country.
But we can't because the likes of you have spent the last 15 years dreaming of wars in the middle east.
Not solutions to the enviromental problems.
(oh but I forgot you said for every gallon some one like me or ed saves you will try your hardest to burn another.
If you stopped putting such ludicrous rubbish up on this site maybe people would listen to your crap. but you don't.
It has been only you that shows a lack of willingness to find a diplomatic solution.
attack first worry about the clean up later.
You are the racist war monger I always thought.
you are the lying toad I always thought.
and I am abusive to you because you are abusive to all in the world(or would be if you were what you dream , a roman emperor.
and because you cannot keep straight what you said and what others said.
Complain about this comment
jacksforge #92: Fine!! Then give me thier E-mail address!! That's all I need!! Surely you can do that, right? Pretty please??
Complain about this comment
jacksforge #112: While I differ with you somewhat on how, and why America was founded (I don't by into the idea that it was founded to surve the purpose of an anti Europe). I also disagree with you on the deffinition of patriotism. Patriotism, to me, is always looking for ways to improve one's country. Sure from time to time, so as to ensure that one doesn't go too insane, its probably best to let a positive thought of ones country cross their mind, but largely I think its to do with striving always and steadfastly toward that elusive goal of making one's nation perfect! I think on rare occasions, such as the 4th of July (American indipendence day), it acceptable and encouraged to display a flag, and I think that on ocasions such as these, it is also right for one to utter what positive aspects they see in their country. But I couldn't agree with you more on the whole flags year round, blind patriotism, showering the country with praise actions being wholey overboard, unexceptable, immature and embarising to those other Americans, who actually think rationally and are mature in their thought process!!! I think that aside from the few times where a good word about the UK is not spoken by one of its citizens, Americans should absolutely unequivically imitate in all its forms, the attitude of the British toward their nation!!!
Complain about this comment
no rash ,fair nuff.
what do you wan the email addresses of the pet solutions.?
Complain about this comment
63 was it? if I spoke to them about it , yea.last i heard they may yet get their job back as long as they carry on working enough hours to meet the requirements.
there are always factions in the management.
good on the decent ones.
But I still think no work is the best medicine for some recovering from chemo.
apparently even the docs think it would be good.
it is the HMO that try to screw all.
Complain about this comment
View these comments in RSS