The luck of Obama
The Unity event was a pretty good day for the Democrats - even down to the weather. Soon after the rally ended a storm blew up that would have destroyed the event if it had descended only an hour or so earlier.
Being lucky is important in politics and Obama does have that aura about him.
I thought it was telling though that the chair provided for the non-speaking partner to listen to the other was perfectly proportioned to fit his lanky frame but completely unsuitable for her - she eyed it doubtfully and, wisely, perched against it. - even the chairs are made for the winner.
They have to sort that out and a few other things as well but I came away thinking this unlikely duo could manage to make the relationship work at least until Bill opens his mouth.
If he were not around she could be VP - really only his baggage stops it now - and how Shakespearian is that?
Hello, I'm 
© MMIX~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~30~RS~)
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I can't think of any Shakespearian analogy, but Justin is no doubt more familiar with the subject than I. Perhaps he could elaborate. Until then, I would say not at all.
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Guys, guys. Surely it's 'ShakesperEan'?
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A bit of baggage herself methinks. Like Lady MacBeth with blood on her hands from her vote on the Iraq war resolution?
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Odd relationships are commonplace in politics where winning takes precedence over personal feelings and even principles. In spite of the aura of invincibility that Obama enjoys he is still very vulnerable and needs the support of blue collar workers and senior citizens, two groups where the Clintons enjoy wide popular support. Fortunately for him, blue collar workers seldom vote, but seniors do. His Achilles heel is not his race but his inexperience. An experienced politician, or a retired General like Wesley Clark, may help him overcome his perceived weaknesses. Ironically, many voters, myself included, consider his limited Wahington exposure a plus.
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Experience. Experience. Experience.
Experience in what?
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A Shakey metaphor: Obama is Hamlet (Obamlet?), Hillary is Gertrude and Bill is Hamlet's father (deposed by George Dubya Bush's Claudius). America is a prison (like Guantanamo) and Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are dead. Alas, poor Yorick....
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What is particularly ironic is that she would not be where she is now if shw had not been trading on Bill's experience. That he has become a liability is poetic justice. Her only claim to personal political achievement was being elected senator from New York. Everyone seems to forget that the only reason she was elected is that the favorite, Giuliani, dropped out of the race (a habit with him).
I still think it is dangerous for Obama to have that duo at his side.
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Addendum:
Experience.
What does that mean? I've lived a lot of years. I have all kinds of experience. Would I want to be POTUS? No thank you!!!! There is no amount of money, even tied with pink ribbons, that would even have me considering that job!
How many would consider giving all of the sacrifices necessary to fulfill the job of president in this country? Maybe if power is the be all and end all, being president would be worth it.
I think that whomever is elected for this job will be faced with some of the most difficult of decisions. Perhaps we should start praying now!
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Shakespeare aside, who says McCain is stuck in the past?
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..."Excellent...article Sir, "FACTUAL, TRUTHFUL, and GREAT!
...."I found the part of Bill Clinton, "Funny! "But truthfully sir, I liked Bill Clinton, he did give America the Longest Economic Expansion in U.S. History, and he created millions of new jobs, as well as left the American People a "RECORD SURPLUS" of $4 TRILLION! He is also the Leader of our Party having served 8 years as President of the United States.
THen in came the republicans who gave/SQUANDERED ALL OF THE RECORD SURPLUS on the TOP ONE PERCENT RICHIEST OF THE RICH" while they put all American's in record DEBT, $58 TRILLION AND COUNTING!
THen they RUINED America's Economy, let the OIL COMPANIES RIP OFF American's to the TUNE OF HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS, while the republicans on the U.S. Surpreme Court reduce the Lawsuit Amount of the Exxon Mobile Spill from $2.5 Billion, TO $500 Million, while the OIL COMPANIES ARE RAKING IN HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS" and the republicans reduce it to $500, Million...."APPRECIATE!
In conclusion, Webb excellent aritlce is well written, and well said.
I've really enjoyed it, and found it informative, factual, and witty, as well as truthful and that takes a good writer folks and thats hard to do.
...As a registered Voter/Vet USAF, I plan on working for, writing for and Voting for Barack Obama, and I hope you will too.
I also hope that America will hold the republcians accountable as we are held accountable, and I hope, that the Democrats sweep all three Branches of Government, then we will get to the "TRUTH, and then see Justice is done, where for too long "INJUSTICE HAS NOT BEEN DONE, and THE REPUBLICANS HAVE RULED/RUNIED/OURLAND/GOVERNMENT/IMAGE/ECONOMY.
..."WE SHALL RUIN THEM...
..."True Patriotism, "Hates Injustice In Its Own Land, "MORE..."Than Anywhere Else."
---Clarence Darrow
Sincerely, Tommy Birchfield, Voter/Vet USAF,
Master's Program, East Tennessee State University, Summer...2008
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8: Addendum #2:
Vero Possumus!
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What is that saying - "keep your friends close, but your enemies closer".
Even though most pundits have dismissed the dream ticket idea, Obama himself knows that winning the election is the most important goal. His poll lead is soft and he will suffer from the Bradley effect in the privacy of the ballot booths.
Having the Clinton's by his side will almost ensure victory and has the potential to sweep a landslide, even Texas. Mrs Clinton is hero worshipped by Latinos and there are more of them than blacks in America.
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No doubt Obama was lucky in that his primary and main election Senatorial opponents self destructed.
But are you ever going to write about the extremly biased press coverage (including you) that Obama recieves.
Only a few snippets like Friday's Boston Globe article about his housing iniative in Chicago has been a disaster have veen made public.
Obama's greatest luck is an extremly biased press!
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It would be fun to figure out who that chair would be best sized to sit in, maybe then you could take a guess at Obama's intentions for VP.
Of course that would only be a game, because the chair's size was intended as a deliberate slight to Hillary and as a message to her:
"Don't get too comfortable next to Obama, because you won't be the person at his side after the convention."
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bril tom "and he created millions of new jobs, as well as left the American People a "RECORD SURPLUS" of $4 TRILLION! "
by selling the american jobs(and factories) abroad.
sorry to bust the clinton bubble ,he was lucky.
new hope (and worry )for the millenium.
in opening china to US firms and overseeing the time when OUTSOURCING became big, as the plants here shut people got jobs exporting their towns economic future away.
There is a lot of money in an estate sale quickly that would not be seen if the goods them selves were passed on to the next generation.
still he was better than any republican I have heard of.
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Sen. Obama.
Will need all the help he can get this fall.
For that matter so will Sen. McCain.
It was a good day in unity.
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#12, Cyril Croydon
I think your quote, "Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer," is right on the money.
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To me, it just seems outrageous (and maybe elitist?) that Obama is helping Clinton to raise funds to pay off her campaign debt, to the point of writing a check himself (and his wife).
Clinton and her husband made 100 million over the last decade or so, how much does she have left? Is she in financial crisis? How about the millions of people who lost their homes recently? Who's helping them recover their losses? It seems that maybe those funds and the efforts to obtain the funds can be better used than helping Clinton heal her self-inflicted wounds (she shouldn't have spent more than she could afford).
Once more, politicians favouring the powerful, it seems to me.
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#18.
What is being paid off are those who supplied services and materials. That would be people like caterers, printers, advisors, etc. She has said she is not looking to repay herself.
It seems doubtful to me that Obama's supporters would help her. I certainly won't. She ran a very nasty campaign. But Obama has to make the attempt to keep her and Bubba at bay. I would not like to see what they would do in a nasty mood.
The problem I see is that it doesn't look good for Obama to be affiliated with them. But I guess in the same way that the democrats cannot get rid of Lieberman at this juncture, neither can Obama get rid of the Clintons. If come November the democrats make a big win, both Lieberman and the Clintons will be history.
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allmymarbles wrote:
#18.
What is being paid off are those who supplied services and materials. That would be people like caterers, printers, advisors, etc. She has said she is not looking to repay herself.
It seems doubtful to me that Obama's supporters would help her. I certainly won't. She ran a very nasty campaign. But Obama has to make the attempt to keep her and Bubba at bay. I would not like to see what they would do in a nasty mood.
The problem I see is that it doesn't look good for Obama to be affiliated with them. But I guess in the same way that the democrats cannot get rid of Lieberman at this juncture, neither can Obama get rid of the Clintons. If come November the democrats make a big win, both Lieberman and the Clintons will be history.
I agree with you about the Dems possibly throwing Liebermann under the bus. So much for the dems being inclusive. But I think as a symbol Clinton is too important for the democrats to ignore
Regarding Lieberman this could back fire, as a jew I feel the Democratic party has allowed antisemetic elements from the Daily Kos to influence them too much. Also remember Lieberman is one of the most respected members of congress especially by independents
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Ms Marbles (20),
including the hugely rich PR agency which gave her such "excellent" advice and meanwhile lobbied for the Colombian deal she was on record as opposing....Let them eat crow!xx
ed
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It was only a matter of weeks ago that Hillary Clinton was telling us Barack Obama is not fit to be President of the United States. At 3 AM or at 10 AM his inexperience alone makes him unsuitable. He is not be fit to be Commander-in-Chief of the Armed forces. That's not just why I or others who think an Obama Presidency would be a disaster, that is what Hillary Clinton told us herself. And now they are looking for a candidate for Vice President who will not only attract those who agreed with her but will will also have the requisite skills to make up for his panoply of weaknesses and inadequacies. Just think about it, 2 years in the government and no accomplishments of distinction. Talk about a tyro. So what is senator Clinton doing? Simple, she is selling us out. Just like her husband sold out his supporters and his nation by diverting attention from the nation's real business to his sexual picadillos. By handing his head to his enemies on a sliver platter after they had exhausted every other avenue to destroy him. And that is what she is doing to all of us including her own supporters. If that isn't clear proof that she is also unfit to be President, I don't know what is. I'm no fan of Senator McCain but he seems to me to be by far the best of a very sorry lot. He's not good but mediocre beats incompetent and it beats corrupt. And that so many Americans accept this pair from hell without question shows just what a sorry state America is in. Were they two white middle aged men instead of a Black man and a woman, they'd have been eliminated from the running a long time ago. If either of them ever gets elected, hold on to your hats. America and the world will be in for a very bumpy ride. We've survived worse...but not in such difficult times a we are going through now. You out there beyond America's shores who think it would be a good thing for Barack Obama to be America's president, let's see what you think two or three years from now when the aura of the prospect of someone from a racial minority being President wears off and the consequences of incompetence become manifest if he gets elected.
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Shalom Haver, Ms Marbles,
I'm unclear on your meaning - 'this could backfire' - what is 'this'? Also, I think it's very important to distinguish between antisemitics and antizionists. I am a committed member of the latter group, but have no time at all for the former.I would gladly throw Lieberman under several steam rollers or oil tankers, along with all those who have helped Israel thumb her nose at moral decency and international law for six decades.
1.) The Holocaust was a European atrocity with which the Palestinian Arabs had little or nothing to do.
2.) NOTHING can justify a persecuted people persecuting another people.
3.) Without some semblance of justice, there can never be peace.
Shalom/Salaam
ed
A letter to Joe Lieberman
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Ed Iglehart
The distinction between antisemitism and antizionism is a false one people like you invented to rationalize your hatred of Jews to others. Was it you who said they should have no homeland or maybe you said they should find a homeland in Alaska. BBC is a willing party to it also. It was only a few weeks ago on its 60th birthday that BBC asked as a title in one thread on WHYS "Has Israel justified its existance?" To which I replied it doesn't have to but has Britain justified its existance? I for one don't think the UK has. Frankly I see no justification for a Palestinian state either as there was no such thing as a Palestinian people before the 1967 war nor talk of one. There was Jordan and Egypt. Jordan is the Arab state carved from the Palestinian Mandate. That is their homeland. If it was stole from them by the Hashemites, that's their problem, not Israel's. The land that was lost to Israel in the wars the Arabs waged to destroy Israel is gone to them probably never to be fully returned. Much of it on the West bank of the Jordan river is necessary as a geographical buffer to prevent Arabs from being tempted to try yet again to attack. Half a mililon Israelis live there now and they aren't going anywhere. This is not like the enclaves in Gaza. And as for Jerusalem, it is the most sacred of all places for the Jews but they were denied access to it when it was controlled by the Arabs. It should and will remain the eternal capital of Israel alone. Nor should 5 million Arabs have a right to invade Israel as the Arabs demand, that is just another way to destroy it.
Does it bother you that the world's most powerful nation by far is closer to Israel than to any other nation? That forced to choose between Israel and Europe or even Israel and the UK, most Americans would side with Israel in a heartbeat? Or that Israel is now one of the top members in the nuclear weaopns club? Don't kid yourself. Were Israel ever under real threat of extinction and forced to take the most drastic measures possible, the world you know would come to an end at their hands. This is not an idle comment, they have the power to destroy anyone and anything and even to bring an end to all human life on earth, just as the US, Russia, the UK, and France do. And if pushed hard enough by say the growing threat of Iran, they just might do that. Does that worry you? It worries me. I'd be calling for wiping Iran's government off the map if I were you. I don't understand what the US and Israel are waiting for. Time is running out.
BTW, I don't think much of Mr. Sarkrazy. He's just one more gnat to be swatted as I see it.
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Were Israel ever under real threat of extinction and forced to take the most drastic measures possible, the world you know would come to an end at their hands
bunch of bloody terrorists.
man your a simpleton
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Why should Obama or anyone else help Hillary pay off her debt? She borrowed and invested much of her fortune consciously, to achieve her goal of becoming the next President of the USA, it is up to her to decide whether or not she wants to pay her creditors and, hopefully, she had the common sense to decide how much she could invest of her own money in a quest that was, ostensibly, out of reach for a person with her charisma and character.
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BAARRK bbbaark bawarrk bbakbbak bbbakk
I hear the chicken hawk.
ready to fight your own wars yet,
idf will take you. go on buddy go fight.
you said it.
Who should we be worried about?
Israel.
why? "
And if pushed hard enough by say the growing threat of Iran, they just might do that. Does that worry you? It worries me. I'd be calling for wiping Iran's government off the map if I were you. I don't understand what the US and Israel are waiting for. Time is running out. "
Because the aggressor is Israel and the likes of you would get pissed if we attacked telaviv. and what's more there are some really nice people in Israel who do not want to die so you can spout off your terroristic crap.
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If I were to bomb anywhere it would be Jerusalem . then there's nothing to fight over,so we can all get on with peace.
(just using some MA logic there I know it is a stupid idea) but fight fire with fire and stupid with stupid
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#20, magickirin wrote:
"Regarding Lieberman this could back fire, as a jew I feel the Democratic party has allowed antisemetic elements from the Daily Kos to influence them too much. Also remember Lieberman is one of the most respected members of congress especially by independents."
I don't think many on the left realize that Obama hasn't exactly locked up the Jewish vote.
I've always like Lieberman, but I tend to take the position that the Palestinians are a useful tool to Middle Eastern rulers and that they are not entitled to a land that was never theirs.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Dominick Vila
Why would Obama pay off Hillary's debt? 18 million angry women who voted for her and wanted her to be President. Buying votes this way is the most cynical form of political corruption. But it's legal.
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MA again at his most ignorant.
I told you what animal my pet is but you did not get it .sorry no more ,one clue enough. but then you are simple.
Your ignorance abounds and seems to have no limits.
Keep writing you are the foil that shows the world how much better off it is, to not be american.
Every american beaten up around the world due to their nationallity owes it to someone like you. I bet they all love you.
Did you see Joe Lieberman at it again.
talk of a chickenhawk, you guys must be good friends.
And you wonder why the world hates america.
I't's not because your tough(hell your all so scared you have to carry guns to the bog with you).
It's because some like you keep picking at wounds. Their not even your wounds but you pick them. then when an infection starts you wonder why.
The only terrorist state I can see that has continuously used terror against civilians, has broken international law more than any one, who has a secret nuke program that is uninspected is Israel.
many of the most vocal supporters are like you , with no investment in the outcome,are as hated in Israel as you are anywhere else.
You want to fight in someone elses yard.
You don't care what happens to Israel. if you did you would SHUT UP.
Zionists are terrorists, always have been , always will be.
ever since a bunch of westerners allowed their terrorist activities to be legitimitised .
you have stated many time a total hatred of religion so what is your interest in Israel., or jeruSALEM.
all you have countered with is another pathetic attack on why I live in the states.
Because I am not as much an american hating bigot as you are. there is yet another reason.
or maybe I am waiting for the day america is claimed by the wise not the ignorant.
Go back spend you sunday looking for that clue, guess the animal.
And yes I would rather stay here and not have to kill my pet than move just because some like you exist here in the states.
If I were really that concerned I would contact some of those vets I know and see if they could help me sort some stuff out.
And they all would climb over each other to get their hands around the necks of those that are chickenhawks.
they respect those that say no war ,
Knight 123 was a perfect example of those that fight but because they were being paid to , it was his job, he gave to those that trained him.
To be let down by the likes of you.
I'd rather be a pet loving human than a war loving donkey.
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Marcus,
Pure Bovine Faeces!Neither, but being homeless is no justification for terrorising others and driving them out and seizing their hiomes.It shames us all, especially those who know the ancient and honorable history and philosophy of Judaism. You are an embarrassment to anyone whose cause you support.have made more of an exception than usual in even reading your rubbish, and this is more answer than it merits
Salaam/Shalom/Shanthi/Dorood/Peace
-ed
People have a right to exist. Nations do not. Israel has forfeited whatever good will it might have claimed.
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Middle Eastern rulers have never considered anyone's safety but their own. Their decisions are political and made purely for their own survival. Today's friend is tomorrow's enemy, depending on who is doing the invading at any one moment in time.
Forgive me if I find their "concern" for the Palestinians anything but genuine.
The Palestinians are useful to the Middle East exactly where they are. They've been kept there for a reason.
And for that, Middle Easterners have also forfeited whatever goodwill they might have claimed.
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It does not surprise me one bit that BBC will censor any reposte against the kind of anti-semitism posters like Ed Iglehard and jacksforge publish while giving them free voice to spew their hatred. After all, BBC explicitly has agreed with their position again and again and their views and BBC's are not far apart.
If you want to know why so many Americans like me detest Europe and Europeans whose history is one of boundless racial, ethnic, and cultural animousity culiminating in the slaughter of helpless millions in a genocidal war 65 years ago, just review the postings of these two and then the stories BBC has reported about Israel and America.
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You are right on target about Bill. He is a real liability because he felt HE lost the nomination.
None of the "old Clinton tricks" worked for him for Hillary because everyone was made acutely aware by his performance that he was running for the office of President of the U.S. He could just "taste" being in the White House once again and exercising extraordinary power. After all, who would the heads of state defer to with the Clinton's as President, once again?
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Re: Bill Clinton's behavior during the campaign.
My friend, a registered nurse, described how open heart surgery may affect one's brain function, potentially leaving the patient with changed behavior. She wondered whether Bill's surgery migh have impacted his behavior.
My own theory about Bill is that this is what he's like when Hillary's not around beating him into behaving.
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I consider Bill Clinton one of the best Presidents this country ever had, but his behavior during this campaign was unseemly and downright embarrassing. It must be hard to give up on the dream of becoming First Gentleman!
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Dominick Vila
I voted for Clinton twice. I liked him a lot better until I found out that Egypt wanted to serve Bin Laden's head to him on a sliver platter three times and he turned them down. I also didn't like him serving up his own head to the Republicans on a silver patter with the Monica Lewinski impeachment disaster after they had exhausted every other avenue to destroy his presidency. Clinton fiddled while America burned. In the end, he proved the fool. BTW, I don't like the Republicans any more than I like the Democrats although right now I think the current crop of Democrats is positively dangerous and incompetent. Their sellout of national security borders on treason. Obama as President is a joke. 2 years on the job as a senator. Hardly an apprentice.
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, Ed Iglehart wrote:
Shalom Haver, Ms Marbles,
"Regarding Lieberman this could back fire, as a jew I feel the Democratic party has allowed antisemetic elements from the Daily Kos to influence them too much. Also remember Lieberman is one of the most respected members of congress especially by independents"
I'm unclear on your meaning - 'this could backfire' - what is 'this'? Also, I think it's very important to distinguish between antisemitics and antizionists. I am a committed member of the latter group, but have no time at all for the former.
I would gladly throw Lieberman under several steam rollers or oil tankers, along with all those who have helped Israel thumb her nose at moral decency and international law for six decades.
1.) The Holocaust was a European atrocity with which the Palestinian Arabs had little or nothing to do.
2.) NOTHING can justify a persecuted people persecuting another people.
3.) Without some semblance of justice, there can never be peace.
Shalom/Salaam
ed
A letter to Joe Lieberman
I and the public know
What all schoolchildren learn,
Those to whom evil is done
Do Evil in return.
W.H. AUDEN, "September 1, 1939"
Ignoring your ignorance of the Middle East because any rational person know Palestinians are responsible for the bloodshed.
Read this slowly so you can comprehend. Jewish people vote and they are a swing vote in Florida, Michigan and Ohio. Normally democratic but they are not going to vote blindly for someone.
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#23, Ed Inglehart,
Whenever someone doesn't like a Jew, people are quick to cry "antisemitism." Not all Jews, just like not all Christians, Moslems, etc., are great people. And calling a dislike of Lieberman antisemitism may be seen as a means of undercutting criticism.
Joe Lieberman, like all elected officials, is supposed to represent his constituents. Connecticut democrats are a very liberal bunch and they were staunchly against the war in Iraq. Lieberman was stauchly in favor of it. Big surprise - he lost the primary to Lamont. So he ran as an independent and, supported by cross-over republicans, won reelection.
Now he is taking out his "hurt feelings" on the democrats by making nice with McCain. Probably his hope is to be the republican running mate. McCain would be nuts to choose him. The democrats hate him and the republicans are wary of him. Having said that, I hope he does get the spot. It would be another boost for Obama.
Half of my family lives in Connecticut and I am in the tristate area myself, so I followed the situation from start to finish. In any case, I never trusted Lieberman and I didn't vote in the Gore-Bush contest because Lieberman was Gore's running mate.
I don't think your being Jewish is relevant to the discussion. In any case, I am of a multi-everything family, part of which is Jewish.
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I don't think most people understand the situation of Israel (and overestimate its independence politically). If you think of it as the Ulster Plantation of the Middle East you will have a clearer view. The nation was created for the purpose of dealing with the hostility of the Arab world after it was double-crossed by England and France after WWI. American now stands in the place of France and England. I do not believe that Israel would take any serious aggressive action without an OK from us. She tried it once under Eisenhower when whe and France attached Egypt. She was forced to end hostilities.
It is worthwhile to note that Arab hatred for the western powers predated the creation of Israel, which only came into existence after the mandates expired.
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Magic,
It is you who are ignorant, and apparently wilfully so. Check out the statisticshere, from B'Tselem, the JEWISH Human rights organisation, and here, from the UN.Since the beginning of the Intifada in 2000, Palestinian casualties have been almost five times the number of Israeli casualties,
The killing of minors (children) has been even more disproportionate, with almost eight Palestinian children killed for every Israeli child, and this dis-proportion has been much more marked latterly.
The circumstances of death of each of these children is described here. (78 so far in 2008, as of end May, and 944 since September 2000) CHILDREN.
Don't tell me about IGNORANCE.
Salaam/Shalom/Shanthi/Dorood/Peace
ed
A Short course in the TRUTH, for those who can take it.
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Ms Marbles,
Not all Jews blindly believe the Zionist Kool Ade as blindly as you appear to.We understand each other mostly, but for clarity's sake, I'm neither Jewish nor Arab, but have made an obsessive study of the nightmare which has resulted from the Zionist project - one of the worst ideas of the 19th and twentieth centuries. Jews have the richest gene pool in Humanity, and are heavily represented at the top of every field of human endeavour - they are true achievers, like the Scots and certain other 'tribal' groups which have retained "family values".
Some 300 or more prominent American Jews signed a remarkably prescient statement to the 1919 Paris Peace conference.
If only they had been heeded!
Magic,
Salaam, etc.
ed
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Ed Iglehart wrote:
Magic,
"Ignoring your ignorance of the Middle East because any rational person know Palestinians are responsible for the bloodshed.
"
It is you who are ignorant, and apparently wilfully so. Check out the statisticshere, from B'Tselem, the JEWISH Human rights organisation, and here, from the UN.
Since the beginning of the Intifada in 2000, Palestinian casualties have been almost five times the number of Israeli casualties,
The killing of minors (children) has been even more disproportionate, with almost eight Palestinian children killed for every Israeli child, and this dis-proportion has been much more marked latterly.
The circumstances of death of each of these children is described here. (78 so far in 2008, as of end May, and 944 since September 2000) CHILDREN.
Don't tell me about IGNORANCE.
You need to be told about ignorance, the Palestinians walked away from a generous peace offer in 2000 and then elected a terrorist group to represent them.
Forget your blind hatread of a great progressive nation.
Palestinian have a state called Jordan.
The blood of every death on both sides is on the Palestinian hands. Just as all death in Lebanon are on the Lebanese hands.
By the way the topic of this discussion was Obama's luck.
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#23, #44, Ed Inglehart. I am a jerk. I did not read the entire entry and glommed on the the antisemitic comment, which is one of my bugaboos when it is merely used for advantage (much as Clintin blamed sexism for her failure).
As far as Israel is concerned, it is a very complex situation confused by pro- and anti-Jewish Arab emotion. It should be viewed as a political contrivance with serious repercussions.
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That is to say, a WESTERN political contrivance.
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Magic,
The Palestinians are guilty for resisting their dispossession, eh?Does such a statement qualify you as arrogant, stupid, or simply ignorant? In any case, you are beneath answering.
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If you want to know why so many Americans like me detest Europe and Europeans whose history is one of boundless racial, ethnic, and cultural animousity culiminating in the slaughter of helpless millions in a genocidal war 65 years ago, just review the postings of these two and then the stories BBC has reported about Israel and America.
Marcus erroneous.
I would refer all to the blue name and to go check out the love MA shows for all.
Wow I would not like to be in his family.
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Seems to me there are all these defenders of srael's rights who talk about how oppressed they were"all through history", who if you took them back to that time would be saying,
"any one who resists must be a terrorist.
The resistance were terrorists from the point of view of the Nazi's.
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jacksforge
"The resistance were terrorists from the point of view of the Nazi's."
Also from the point of view of King George III.
You said as I recall that you have dual citizenship. (I don't know why we allow that.) So tomorrow being July 4 Independence day, which side are you on? Which side won the American Revolution, the right side or the wrong side?
How nice it would have been for the founding fathers of America to know that 232 years after the Declaration of Independence, Britain would be America's colony. And to think we have a nice new poodle named Gordon too.
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I am not dumb enough to support national days , Don't do St georges day don't do independence from healthcare and holiday day either.
I think you should be careful. if you lose your ONLY ally your screwed.
But you are dumb enough to think america can go it alone.
And still non of you attempts to insult or offend go anywhere nearer to proving any of your arguments and as usual it is your only form of debate.
And for all your bluff here is the biggest joke
YOUR RULED BY KING GW2.
I'd rather have the queen.
Well you could run for that position.
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jacksforge....you are the queen.
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got ya baby.ooh your lovely when your angry.
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America went it alone for a long time. It can do it agaiin. I don't see what the rest of the world provides America other than a few rare minerals like chromium it can buy on the open market that it doesn't have within its borders. We certainly have far more energy than we could possibly use for centuries...if we wanted to tap into them. We can grow far more than enough food to feed ourselves. And there is nothing we couldn't manufacture here including all of the products whose manufacure we exported. No, we don' need anyone else.
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america never went it alone , first there was france
And there is nothing we couldn't manufacture here including all of the products whose manufacure we exported.
you are again a little ignorant of the realities of america.
If all those jobs were to come back, you would have problems with finding welders immediately. And one hell of a lot of stuff is welded.
the average age of a welder in the US 56years
I do not say america could not be great . it is you and the other idiots like you that prescribes such bad medicine for it ,that is the problem.
we would be better off making things that might start to change things for the better. like better architecture, climate appropriate.
go see the film DEATH OF THE ELECTRIC CAR.
you will see two sides of america there.
those that care and try and those that don't care and so scupper all atempts to better this country.
those that say "whats the problem?"
You seem to be one of them. or you are a nasty selfish person that cares not for anyone else.
You will see that some at GM had an electric car that worked but other prefer to sell oil filters and gas and their souls. so they killed the project
in 2001 and swapped from electric cars(not fuel cells) and moved to HUMMER instead.
great american thinking
I like the protesters who got arrested for trying to stop this stupid policy.
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jacksforge
By 1798 the US was on the verge of war with France and we've had trouble with them ever since. Read the accounts of the Alien and Sedition acts to understand what France had to do with Congress passing them that year. The US manufactured everything. And it certainly manufactured everything the allies used during the war including 4 Liberty ships per day. Not to mention all of the armaments, machinery, and to this day still has 2 1/2 times the manufacturing output of China according to the Secretary of the Treasury. Who do you think manufactured the central processing computer chip in the computer you are using right this second? Intel or AMD. Tell me about the CPU chips invented and manufactured outside the US. Mitsubishi? Siemens? Phillips? Sony? Fujitsu? No, none of them has the capability. At best we ship the dirty work of the plants physically manufacturing them with all the toxic chemicals requred to China or Ireland but that's about it. The brains are right here at home.
There are a lot of fanciful ideas touted by tyros which fall apart on examination by engineers. Where do you think the power to charge up the batteries in an electric car will come from? Coal burning power plants which supply 50% of all the electric power in the US. Think about it next time you recharge the battery in your cell phone. Where do you think the power to separate hydrogen and oxygen in water molecules to make hydrogen fuel cells comes from? Coal burning power plants. And you know what....it is a fact that you get less energy back from them running cars than it took to put into them when they were being charged up.
California's Governator can get the legislature to pass all the dumb laws about CO2 reduction it likes. After all, it buys a lot of its electric power off the a which is supplied in large part by lots of coal burning power plants in places like Wyoming where there are no restrictions. Without that power, California's economy is dead meat. In fact its infrastructure is so inadequate that in the summer Southern California will have planned rolling blackouts...and maybe some unplanned ones as well.
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" And it certainly manufactured everything the allies used during the war including 4 Liberty ships per day."
sorry the many who died manning these ships were brave people.
shame the engineers did not get the design right.
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There are a lot of fanciful ideas touted by tyros which fall apart on examination by engineers. Where do you think the power to charge up the batteries in an electric car will come from? Coal burning power plants which supply 50% of all the electric power in the US. Think about it next time you recharge the battery in your cell phone. Where do you think the power to separate hydrogen and oxygen in water molecules to make hydrogen fuel cells comes from? Coal burning power plants. And you know what....it is a fact that you get less energy back from them running cars than it took to put into them when they were being charged up.
Again you know little .
all that power could come from renewables. if every house in the US had cells on the roof (and they do make solar cell roofs) there would be enough power.
but you are a born ostrich with your head in the sand.
and even with coal it is still a net reduction in CO2 levels using the electric cars.
your education was a long time ago erronious centuries even millenium, now you are a dinosaur.
The GM electric car (the EV) was popular with it's owners and the lease agreements were terminated . the electric cars required less fixing, less filters,etc and they threatened the oil industry.
It is easier to control emissions at a power plant than a car.
and emissions at power plants have gone down despite more energy being created.
Cars however are still throwing out more emissions . and GM dropped the all electric car for ....
wait for it .....drum roll!!!!!! THE HUMMER.
in 2001.
crow time for you
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jacksforge;
"sorry the many who died manning these ships were brave people.
shame the engineers did not get the design right."
They kept your parents fed didn't they. Actually jacksforge...I hate to be the one to break it to you but....those ships went down and those men died.....because....they were torpedoed by German U-boats. In case nobody ever told you, let me be the first to break it to you...there was a war going on. Ever hear of World War II and the Battle of the Atlantic? No, I don't suppose you did.
There is no way solar cell roofs could possibly provide anything remotely like enough power for a modern American home. And even if they could, they are far too expensive. And what would you do about apartment houses where the area of the roof couldn't possibly be large enough. And by the way, they do have a limited life as well. So far solar panels like other laughable science fair like projects such as the solar boiler in Spain BBC kept yammering about for awhile is a pathetic and completely ineffective way to reduce energy conumption from power plants. Not only that, it is delusionary and diverts resources and attention away from developing any new technology that could actually be useful. BTW, which part of the explanation about electric cars having to constantly be recharged by central power plants which largely burn fossil fuel didn't you understand? And how do I know all of this? You forgot, I'm an electrical engineer. Do I tell you how to bang metal?
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"Actually jacksforge...I hate to be the one to break it to you but....those ships went down and those men died.....because....they were torpedoed by German U-boats. In case nobody ever told you, let me be the first to break it to you...there was a war going on. Ever hear of World War II and the Battle of the Atlantic? No, I don't suppose you did."
marcus the unwise.
they were framed like a wooden boat squares everywhere . those squares with CORNERS led to metal fatigue. they sunk because they fell apart, most of them.
You say you are an engineer, this is one of the text book examples of how not to build a boat. since the liberty ships boats have curves in the baulk heads.
to prevent stress cracks.
You claimed a while back you are some great engineer but obviously you are not.
this is a very simple subject that the world has studied.
I recently was talking to the welding inspector on a job who was on one of the last liberty ships in service.
it had been welded up to make it safer(and sold to the Tiawan navy)
as to being an electrical engineer I thought you were a metalurgical expert , you claimed this before.
solar cell technolgy is way more advance than you think ,(if you can)
And can contribute greatly to the worlds solutions.
If you are so ignorant and behind in your chosen field , your field of expertise then you really are a dinosaur failure.
There is solar technology available today to provide more than enough energy. just not the manufacturing capacity to do it.
And as for solar boilers, i'm not sure what you are talking about. but even in the winter people can heat with solar.
go take a tub of vioxx, your views are dangerous to the world.
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So there are liberty ships still sailing over 60 years after they were built. As for their original flaws, yes they didn't know as much back then, I forgot about their initial problems. When they discovered the cause they fixed it. But the German wolfpacks were the real cause of problems for the US shipping enough material to Britain to keep it functioning.
The Spanish solar boiler BBC kept reporting on a couple of years ago had a acre of mirrors...to produce 11 kilowatts of power. It was a toy, just like most solar cell projects.
I never said I was a metalurgical expert. I said I studied material science as part of my engineering training and my first job out of school was with Bethlehem Steel, the second largest steel company in the US and the 26th largest company of any type in the US at that time. As a management trainee/engineer, I was taught every aspect of steelmaking right from where the ore and coal were mined and the limestone quarried up to point where the finished products were shipped out the door. For two years I worked at the largest steel plant in the world at Sparrows Point Maryland. It poured nine million ingot tons of steel a year. That's a lot of steel. 30,000 acres was a lot of steel plant. So much so in fact that it was the single largest electrical load in the United States. 360 million watts at 60 hz and it generated 40% of it on site from gas biproducts of coke making and blast furnace operations. And that didn't include its 25 hz power plant and loads. BTW, it also had a shipyard adjacent to it. Bethlehem Steel was a big producer of liberty ships during the war. It also invented the supertanker right after the war.
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true the germans did not help in any way.
by the way I now forge on one of the Bethleham steel yard nazel power hammers.
two years changing plugs.
man in all seriousness you could probably afford to get into smithing, you might like it.
as to being an expert you kinda did.
you tried to imply a blacksmith would not know as much as an engineer who had a DEGREE and all that.
but fair nuff.
Now I did hear another problem with the liberty ship was the metal was a bit brittle.They didn't make the metal did they?
Well it's not like Sheffield could still make all the good steel, during the war.
No serious the Nazel is great.
And one of the Bethleham plants is probably being converted to a Blacksmith shop.
Big one but I think mainly for sculpture etc.
Should be good if it ever goes through.
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Bethlehem steel undoubtedly rolled the steel for the liberty ships they built themselves. As I recall, of the 4 a day the US turned out, 2 came from Bethlehem Steel shipyards. They may have supplied steel for other shipyards as well. There were others though such as US Steel, Jones and Lochland are just two of many. I haven't researched it but I think Kaiser Steel on the west coast perfected the technique for building them quickly. Time was of the essence.
Bethlehem made virtually every kind of steel that could go into a ship except stainless steel and they didn't make transformer iron (permalloy and supermalloy.) But they rolled plate, all kinds of structural shapes, pipe, and of course they had fabricated steel construction, in other words all of the major components of ships. They were big into shipbuilding for awhile but they sold the Electric Boat Division which makes submarines in Groton Connecticut to General Dynamics. They made everything from scratch of course and kept meticulous records of every piece of steel they made right back to what heat of steel it first became steel in. Everything was traceable.
They claim to have invented the supertanker right after WWII. The first one was only 16,000 tons. Not very big even by 1970 standards but the principles had only to be scaled up. They did service large tankers in their shipyards, I think up to about 300,000 tons.
By the time I got there, all heats of steel were tested by mass spectrometers for alloy content and all pipe and rebar were thoroughly tested after manufacture as well. Things in the 40s were undoubtedly more primitive. I think they still built ships with rivets.
I got some practical experience in materials science class with annealing, quenching, and work hardening. Also X-Ray crystalography and lots of theory about crystaline structures, alloys, grain boundaries, eutectic charts, not to mention electrical and magnetic properties of materials. Lots of quantum mechanics theory about materials too. I also got to work in a machine shop for awhile, all part of the curriculum. I used to like to cut all kinds of gears on a turret lathe.
I watched press forges and drop forges at the Bethlehem plant during my tour and got a rudimentary education in the process. I think they used forged steel for turbine shafts on ships, maybe for power plant steam turbine shafts too. I'm not sure if the printing press rollers they made were also forged too, might be.
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wow, cool ,you can be quite pleasant.keep it up. a nice read that.
seriously you would possibly love smithing so much more fun than machining and smelting.
Has some real soul to it.
I'm not joking.
Now to risk a question, how much of that was derived from the British steel industry?
The smelting and refining of ores in industrial quantity was the beginning of the industrial revolution.
Had they strayed far from the path, or were they still relying on that proven technology.
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Now to risk a question, how much of that was derived from the British steel industry?
I don't know. Wasn't there the iron age and before that the bronze age? Seems to me people have been smelting metals for thousands of years.
jacksforge, this was only one aspect of my training and experience. There were many others of equal or greater importance.....like tons of chemistry. And I am proud to say I did not cause even one explosion in any of the chemistry lab I was in....well not a very big one anyway (after a few days when the smoke cleared, you'd hardly know...just kidding :-)
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so you didn't work for union carbide then?
never near Bhopal.
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