A weekend of voting - and shopping
This is best and wittiest take I have seen so far on the Maine victory for Obama and the Clinton spin of that and
the weekend's other setbacks for her campaign.
History will relate that the wheels came off the Clinton bus somewhere around the time she showed up in Florida for that fake victory speech (Florida delegates, remember, were not to be counted by the party because it was a rogue early primary and none of the candidates campaigned there) which even nervy CNN eventually came round to viewing as a bit fishy.
And was the bus sent careering over the ravine by this Sunday's Frank Rich column in the New York Times?
Rich is British. Not, so far as I know, by nationality, but by dint of his aggressive and occasionally tendentious not to say truth-embroidering style, which frankly as a Brit I find rather refreshing: it reminds me of columnists in the Old Country who can be relied on to search for facts to support a case only after making the case with both barrels blazing.
Anyway Rich is pretty devastating and (I am just guessing here) will have made some senior Clinton people pretty sick as they toyed with their kedgeree on Sunday morning.
Meanwhile I am back in DC after a weekend in New York during which I met almost the entire population of the UK, over for a quick shop.
Tourism is a funny kind of economic boon; it plainly works in the sense that it brings in money and boosts the service industries, but arguably (look at the UK over recent decades) it has a hollowing-out effect on the morale of a nation.
We want to exist at a deeper level than simply to be gawped at. Humans want to build things, create stuff. New York was not originally created for tourism neither can it be sustained by tourism. Manhattan is not America of course (my son's atlas says that New York is the "Cultural Capital" of the US - surely not?) but the influx of foreigners lured by cheap consumer goods almost all made in the Far East does not look to me like a sign that all is well with the US economy.
America should be expensive to visit; a shining shopping mall on a hill, not a bazaar. Not that I am complaining about the weakness of the dollar, I just hope the fabled ingenuity of American enterprise is up to the challenge of this century.
And that brings me to McCain/Huckabee.
I don't think so.
One knows nothing about economics (or so the Arizona senator used to say) and the other nothing about science (he alone among us is unrelated to the apes) - I cannot see a majority of Americans this year regarding that as progress, evolution, however charming the two men are.
Unless of course Hillary and Bill implode and take the whole Democratic Party down with them.
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McCain-Huckabee, no; McCain-Jindal, yes, yes, yes.
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There is a certain moral victory for Obama in that historically, Maine always got the candidate right ... and lately, Missouri never gets it wrong. Why is he winning in such diverse regions?
There are quantifiable differences between Barack and Hillary; as they are both senators, they have voting records, just as judges write opinions. And the senate is all about opinion; advice and consent. The legislative initiative is limited; philosophes flood the floor.
According to the National Journal's influential ranking system, compiled at Brookings, Barack is the most liberal Senator. Again, first in his class (competitive, ain't he?). Hillary finishes 16th. Obama's trajectory over the last three years matches his biography: No backtracking. Hillary swayed with the breeze, or whatever you call those hot desert winds they have in Iran ... and Iraq.
Curiously, mean-spiritedness counts as a conservative vote. Hillary voted against allowing university students to remain in the US while renewing their visas (June, 2007). Transparency is also deemed "liberal;" notably, Hillary voted against establishing a Senate Office of Public Integrity to handle ethics complaints against senators in January, 2007, shortly after she announced her candidacy.
All quotes from National Journal. Here lies the record: http://nj.nationaljournal.com/voteratings/
"NJ's vote ratings are designed to draw distinctions that illuminate the differences among lawmakers. The calculations ranked senators relative to each other based on the 99 key votes and assigned scores in three areas: economic issues, social issues, and foreign policy."
"In 2007, Obama's composite liberal score of 95.5 was the highest in the Senate . . . [third place] Joseph Biden, D-Del., with a 94.2." (!) A very close shave with Joe Biden, hardly anyone's idea of a "radical." Obama's just slightly more ... consistent.
The Republicans, of course, equate "liberal" with, well, other indelicate words. But you're right, Mr. Webb. Republicans like Obama well enough (he is, after all, an exacting scholar, and a gentleman); one-on-one, and rather like Spencer Tracy in Guess Who's Coming to Dinner, they "can't fault him." Republicans ungrudgingly grant him momentum and direction..
Sen. John Cornyn, R-Texas: "I saw Senator Kennedy's endorsement of him as both an acknowledgement of that similar ideological view, but also -- perhaps just as significant -- that he represents the future and [Clinton] represented the past ... adding that notwithstanding Obama's appeal "really across party lines," his ideology "would be certainly what the election would focus on."
Obama addressed lables -- and libels -- in 2004: "Even as we speak, there are those who are preparing to divide us, the spinmasters and negative-ad peddlers who embrace the politics of anything-goes. Well, I say to them tonight: There's not a liberal America and a conservative America -- there is the United States of America."
"Talk like that is what makes Obama popular across the ideological spectrum, said Rep. Zoe Lofgren, D-Calif. "It's not the '90s all over again," she said. "Instead of focusing in on what divides us, it's focusing in on what can unite us. People are sick of the divisions. Republicans I know -- and I know quite a few -- are very enthused by this guy."
After all, nuts-and-bolts politicians know they'll all be back at the table someday, and both sides wish it were round, whoever gets to play Arthur.
Interestingly: "Rep. Ron Paul, R-Texas, the lone House member still in the presidential race, had a composite conservative score of 60.2, making him the 178th-most-conservative lawmaker in that chamber in 2007. His libertarian views placed him close to the center of the House in both the social issues and foreign-policy categories. He registered more conservative on economic issues."
Incidentally: "Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., the only other senator whose presidential candidacy survived the initial round of primaries and caucuses this year, did not vote frequently enough in 2007 to draw a composite score. He missed more than half of the votes in both the economic and foreign-policy categories. On social issues, which include immigration, McCain received a conservative score of 59."
The Democrats' choice is ideological -- at last -- an ethics test, a civic revival ... not so different from McCain's assertion that law trumps scripture (which lowers your conservative rating, in Christian-crazed America.
Hillary's flirtations with the neo-cons can't be construed as compromise. She's losing on her record. Hillary not only drank the Bush Kool-aid, she presided over tea.
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Oh Justin! Your bias is showing! Although no Democrat campaigned in Florida, Mrs Clinton received the lion's share of the votes, around 865,000. You do not query the inequity of disenfranchising the hundreds of thousands of her supporters. A previous BBC article opined that if, by the time the convention is held, neither of the candidates has a clear majority, these delegates might well resolve any potential problem. This weekend's results were hardly unexpected and are not necessarily indicative of future voting patterns. If you saw "Sixty Minutes" on CBS, you will know that Mr Obama smiled a lot but said very little about what he would do as president, whereas Mrs Clinton was far more specific; there's none so blind as those who will not see! With regard to the Frank Rich column, a pity you did not link to Tad Devine's article in the same publication (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/10/opinion/10devine.html) in which he supports the notion of using super delegates, saying "Democratic leaders need to let the voters sort out which one of these two remarkable people will lead our party . ."
New York is not considered the cultural capital of the United States? If not the Big Apple, where would it be? It has all the equivalent artistic facilities of London, Paris and other great cities: museums, theatre, concert halls, fine music, as well as Greenwich Village and Chelsea. Name another in the United States which has as much - even Los Angeles only claims to be the Entertainment Capital since "culture" is not in great supply compared with other metropolitan areas.
And McCain/Huckabee - you're probably correct that this will not appeal to a broad electorate - but McCain-Condoleeza Rice might be a potent force, just as Clinton-Colin Powell would be for the Democrats. In any case - if it becomes McCain v Obama then the Democrats will be in the presidential wilderness for the foreseeable future, just as the Conservatives were post 1997 and who are now only a force to be reckoned with; even then they are not assured of winning the next General Election in the UK, unless they get a little help from their friends, as Nick Clegg has appeared to imply.
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"Unless of course Hillary and Bill implode and take the whole Democratic Party down with them."
I hope you knocked on wood when you wrote this, Justin.
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Maybe this has already been commented on, but has anyone else noticed the strange similarity between the current US primary contest and that depicted in the latter seasons of the West Wing?
For the Democrats, there was an establishment frontrunner (Hillary Clinton/Bob Russell) being challenged and then overtaken by a young, inexperiened, ethnic minority candidate (Barack Obama/Matt Santos).
For the Republicans, a relative moderate was chosen, who angered many on the right of his party with his liberal positions (John McCain/Arnold Vinnick). He then went on to choose a right-wing running mate (Ray Sullivan/Mike Huckabee?)
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Of course, New York City is the cultural capital of the United States. Which isn't to say that other cities are merely outposts of art, entertainent, & style, but none has as much power & influence. Most tourists think New York City is Manhattan, or more specifically, Midtown. If they want to spend their money in Times Square & to see "The Little Mermaid," terrific.
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I seem to recall a radio piece that you (probably) did some months ago about how Hillary was using the inevitablity of her win to armtwist support amongst the political class. All actions have an an equal and opposite reaction - in nature and in politics. Now that such notions of inevitability are utterly shattered do you think that we will see a backlash amongst the super-delegates, looking to revenge the Clinton manipulation and egomania?
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You're right Justin! Frank Rich's NYTimes op-ed wonderfully highlights how the Clintons' dash for a third term is being sunk by their penchant for insincerity, disdain for the Clintons amongst independents and a truly charismatic, electable alternative. Rich's piece is perhaps one of the most important peices yet written on this election, and it highlights the reasons for the Clintons' inevitable defeat at the hands of either Obama or McCain.
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I'm an American citizen, and I find British perspectives on our political culture fascinating. Keep it up!
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Thanks Justin for your time and effort you put in this blog. I have 2 question and I would be grateful if you could kindly answer me.
1. Why the recent polls in CA and NJ ware not accurate? Do you think Obama's msg does not stick or he has a larger problem?
2. Are there signs that super-delagetes are starting to realise that her chances of wining are slim and jumping out of the boat?
I do not think her candidacy is actually THE FIRST WOMAN candidate? I think she is more of the first ROYAL candidate.
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Justin,,you disappointed me..I come to BBC News quite often..what ever made you decide to go so negative on Sen. Clinton..You aren't even an American so what does it mater to up? You have a right to your oppinion, but atleast in the past you had seemed to give each candidate their dues..what a shame..
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I don't know if it's fair to criticise McCain for "not knowing anything about economics". After all, he can find out.
Better than believing you understand when you don't, which is what Bush appears to do.
Oh, and will people stop describing Obama as the "inexperienced" candidate? "First Lady" is NOT a political position.
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McCain - Giuliani!
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Why no mention of the disgracefull action of the Republicans in Washington State? McCain was declared winner before all votes were counted and while the margin between the top two candidates was signifcantly less than the remaining uncounted votes. I understand that the Huckabee camp is investigating "irregularities". Surely this is newsworthy?
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I'm not related to the apes either.
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The USA is too large and diverse to have a 'cultural capital'.
As for politics, I could live with a McCain presidency but I doubt if he can win without the whole-hearted support of conservative christians. 'W.' managed to get elected twice because he succeeded in forging a unique alliance between christian fundamentalists and traditional business republicans. Now that this coalition has broken down, it looks unlikely that McCain will occupy 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue in January.
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How about Clinton/McCain. One from each party --- tweedledum and tweedledee.
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Honestly, the Clintons seem mercenary (even for politicians) to me- and thats why as it stands- she wont get my vote unless Hucakbee is the vp canidate I'm undecided
I think it was Lyndon Johnson? who once remarked that anybody who "makes money in politics, is a (C) (C) crook"
The Clinton's certainly seem to have made money at it.
I don't think you can say the US has a defacto cultural capital given the diffrence in some regions (for instance the south - very unlike New York) but if you had to pick one city New York is probably the best choice
I think it was Lyndon Johnson? who once remarked that anybody who "makes money in politics, is a (C) (C) crook"
The Clinton's certainly seem to have made money at it.
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Clinton and Obama have succeeded in doing to the Democratic Party what Bush/Cheney did to the nation: divided it. So even if the unlikely long shot comes in and a Democrat gets elected president, there is little unity in the ranks and at best that president will be a do-nothing one term deal. Typical of the Democrats to shoot themselves in the foot.
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Obama's rehetoric is magnificient but he still falls short on experience and he is most certainly untried and untested. He is in fact a Senator who has not yet finished his first term and one must question his judgement in determining that he the most inexperience of all the candidates (R or D) could even adequately do the job. As for his wins this weekend, it aint over till the Fat Lady sings.
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If New York isn't the cultural capital of the US, what could possibly be? Boston may have been, but lost it. DC, Philly and Chicago never really rivaled NY. As for LA "culture", the less said the better.
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'Bill' no doubt refers to Bill Richardson whom I note in a November blog that you were tipping for the nomination as a candidate with some 'executive experience' unlike Obama. To tie up some themes in your present entry,though,I wonder if history will see this election as the one in which New York and California were shown for the first time to be behind the times, being two of the most reluctant states to jump on Obama's train.
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Many pundits have counted a Clinton out before and been proven disastrously wrong.
My bet is that the contest will come down to the superdelegates and the large states left to vote; that at the end, there will be a Clinton-Obama ticket. That will be Clinton for president, Obama for vice president.
The wheels are not off the Clinton campaign bus: they're just making a pit stop.
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david Cunard- What a terrible point about the disenfranchising Hilary's supporters in Florida. It is beyond the point. What about the potential Obama supporters in Florida? The point is that the Democratic party asked the candidates to ignore the state because they refused to hold the vote withing the Democratic party guidelines. It isnt bias against Hilary to bring this up. If anyone is to blamke it is the state or the Democratic party. Obama did as he was asked, Hilary didnt its that simple.
Of course this is all subjective, but I really think you are being dishonest about the 60 minutes program. In general in most of the debates it seems to me that Obama is the only one offering conrete plans on anything. Hilary was asked about healthcare but all she kept saying was 'as democrats we need universal healthcare' without actually stipulating how she would do it. Hilary doesnt know how she is going to do anything because she is a pragmatic politician. I think more and more people are beginning to realise that about Hilary. You really cant believe a word she says because if a better deal can be struck she will abandon her ideals and principles. Her previous history with US drug companies is a great example.
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"This is best and wittiest take I have seen so far on the Maine victory for Obama and the Clinton spin of that and the weekend's other setbacks for her campaign."
What am I missing here Mr. Webb? The BBC article said that the race now is virtually tied which is where most other analysts have it. The wheels came off the Clinton campaign bus? Then how did it manage to sail through New York, New Jersey, and California? In the end, the decision of the party to select a nominee could be made by the super delegates and the delegates of candidates who dropped out like Edwards. When it comes to wheeling and dealing, I wouldn't count the Clintons out yet. By the reckoning of many people who are touted as expert pundits, President Clinton is the savviest political animal in the US.
"The Business of America is Business." According to the sources I seen on the internet, that was said by President Calvin Coolidge in the 1920s but I remember it as being said by President Harrison during his campaign in the late 1800s. Regardless, it is as true as ever and if Brits or anyone else wants to come to NYC or any other place to do business in America, America is only too happy to welcome them, the shop is always open. If they don't choose to take advantage of the many fine cultural treasures of NYC such as the Metropolitan Museum of Art (possibly the finest art collection in the world according to one of its British born curators who recently appeared on TV) or the New York Philharmonic, or the Metropolitian Opera, or countless other opportunities to enjoy some of the best cultural offerings anywhere at what must seem like bargain basement prices now, that's their loss. BTW, now is an excellent time to shop for a house in the US in many locations. By European standards, many must be bargains too. It likely won't last forever.
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I'm amused at Mr Cunard's estimations of a McCain-Rice ticket or Clinton-Powell ticket.
Rice is a single black woman--too weird for the fundamentalist base. She's no Dick Cheney, so the neocon's don't like her, and she's been impressively absent from the media for at least a year--she couldn't even get a couple of op-eds published.
Colin Powell? The man who suppressed the My Lai massacre and sold the Iraq War to the US? What Democrat would welcome him?
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I'm really beginning to yawn over many of the "victories" Obama's "racked" up. The Maine caucus had a total of 3,300 people turnout statewide. That's less than voted in the Democratic Primary here in my small middle-of-nowhere town in Massachusetts. Can my town have 24 convention delegates please? In the Alaska Democratic Caucus 406 Democrats statewide compared to the 11,000+ in the Republican Caucus. These are still tragically small percentages of the total voting population. Meanwhile 1,700,000 (1.7 million) or so people voted in the Democratic Primary in Florida, yet will get no delegates. This primary "election" gets more and more absurd as it goes on.
As far as Frank Rich goes perhaps the New York Times should retitle it's Opion pages, Fiction pages to accommodate Mr Rich. There are indeed fracture lines beginning in the Democratic Party but these others are more rationally based fracture lines to worry about.
The overriding fracture line will be over Mr. Obama's irremediable unpreparedness for the Presidency. No matter the volume of "Political Fictions" the media or party glitterati, nor the vote emo permission slips issued by Newsweek, the man is not up to the Office. If this were a Parliamentary ceremonial Presidency sure, but this is not the Czech Republic. This is the Chief Executive of the most complex political economy in human history. There is no member of my or any state legislature who would be up to the challenge in two or three years. Mr Obama is no exception. Therefor Mr. Obama is no credible candidate. That fact, not part of the media narrative admittedly, is unavoidable despite all the fictions floating around. Many Democrats will recoil from Obama where he to be the nominee because many Democrats are citizens first. Odd as it may sound, many Democrats are citizens first and Democrats second.
That's a fracture line over which the Party isn't but should be most primarily concerned.
A second fracture line is the unhinged religiosity deepening around Mr. Obama. That, rationally, turns off many and gives cause for suspicion, and as that odd unwelcomed spiritualism grows, gives cause for revulsion and not a little fear.
Those are real and rational and they are developing fracture lines. These are developing issues but as in New Hampshire none in the media are paying any attention to actual voters. Mr Rich would serve his profession and the electorate far better if he were either to take a leave of absence to fully develop his narrative fiction into a political thriller novel or start writing reality based opinion rather than add to the growing pile of political smut the national media is heaping up us all.
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I am fascinated by the patronizing tone so often found in the BBC's comments about the US. It is unusual for Brits to ridicule NYC, which usually is treated with a certain amount of grudging respect - even by the British. Apparently this is no longer the case.
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For readers of this blog who might be interested in the issues, rather than in columnists "making the case with both barrels blazing", here is a piece by New York Times Op-Ed Columnist Paul Krugman on the health car proposals of Clinton and Obama.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/04/opinion/04krugman.html?th&emc=th
Krugman writes: "But as I’ve tried to explain in previous columns, there really is a big difference between the candidates’ approaches. And new research, just released, confirms what I’ve been saying: the difference between the plans could well be the difference between achieving universal health coverage — a key progressive goal — and falling far short.
"Specifically, new estimates say that a plan resembling Mrs. Clinton’s would cover almost twice as many of those now uninsured as a plan resembling Mr. Obama’s — at only slightly higher cost."
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Surprising indeed that the Democrats' mouthpiece the New York Times should allow Mr. Rich space to eviscerate the Clintons so savagely. Their perennial darlings must really be feeling betrayed.
Surely they have already been on the phone to the Times powers that be to ask for an equally devastating piece to be written about Obama! I bet James Carville would just love to write it!
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Dear Justin Webb,
I live near Boston, but I have to admit that New York IS the Cultural Capitol of the US:
Dance: absolutely
Theater: Yes
Publishing: Yes
Art: Yes
Music: At least as good as any other city
Museums: Only Washington DC is close
Education & Universities: No
Overall, pretty conclusive....
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And I suppose if Justin Webb had praised New York as the cultural capital of America it would have been another example of BBC bias - 'typical BBC sort, only cares for the most Europeanising part of America, has nothing but disdain for the real America etc. etc. etc.'
Give the guy a break and stop looking to be offended. Sheesh.
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In response to #28 Justin Webb is ridiculing NYC because he could only find Brit tourists there -it's no reflection on good Americans such as yourself. Similarly, London has become such a tourist trap that it has lost a lot of its soul.
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3 Things:
1. I must say that I find your comment on that New York Times reporter being British, as if to suggest that only British reporters can rite truth-telling, aggressive pieces a bit offensive. If he wasn't British by nationality, then he must be some other nationality-probably American, and that implys that Americans are just as capable of, and indeed display that capability of writing in this style in their news papers as just as well as their British counterparts. Now granted I think that there should be much, much more of this in this country as I've stated in previous posts, but still, to suggest that the guy was (British) only by his style of riting is very insulting indeed. Being a certain nationality may give one certain tendincies to behave in certain ways, but it most deffinately doesn't confine them to it!, and if they so wished, they could change their ways to one which they feel would sute them best.
2. When you said "America should be expensive to visit; a shining shopping mall on a hill, not a bazaar. Not that I am complaining about the weakness of the dollar, I just hope the fabled ingenuity of American enterprise is up to the challenge of this century.",that seems a little obvious to me. We all are all too painfully aware of the continueing plummit of the dollar as a result of 15 years or so of spending like a drunken sailor, and are franticly trying to reverse this trend. We don't like this just as much as you, and hope that the "ingenuity of our enterprise" can "meet the challenges of the 21st century" as well. To me at least, it just all the more reminds me of this unhappy truth when foreigners comment on the mess we have become as well.
3. Tourism, to me, is more than celling "cheep consumer goods". Its partly that of course, but it is also ment to "lure", hopefully foreigners to our cities to "tour" the cites, I.E. historical monuments, broadway plays, etc. When viewed in the light of the UK, the same holds true. People go to London to buy suvineres, but also (hopefully) to see all the historical monuments that have contributed to that country's story over the past centuries.
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Is "experience" always a good thing?
What about bad experience? Or outdated experience? I'm just sayin.
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As an outsider looking in I actually find myself agreeing with Clinton's comments regards the shift to Obama. Most of Obama's wins have come in caucuses and in states with a high percentage of black voters.
Anyone who can't see that is in denial.
The question is - why do the caucuses support him so much?
I believe it is done to the fact that his supporters tend to be the most fanatical. I have also heard that they have indulged in some disgusting guilt-tripping of those who dare to not vote for their man.
The real test will come in large states with primaries that do not have a large number of black voters. That would in my opinion be Wisconsin then perhaps Ohio and Texas.
One other consideration - there is only one other caucus vote to go now - Hawaii - if Obama can win one of the primaries I mentioned then perhaps then Hillary will have to concede but until then she should keep fighting her corner.
By the way - one point of note - if the Democrats adopted a winner takes all approach as the GOP do the delegate count would be 1050 to Clinton and 873 to Obama.
That’s not including Michigan or Florida either.
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#27 Jay - a little clarification - the numbers from caucuses are not voters but state delegates - voters are usually of a factor ten times that or so - still pitiful though.
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Of course New York City is the cultural capital of USA (if not the world, then in the top 3) as well as the country's financial power center, exactly why it was targeted by the terrorists on 9/11 to achieve maximum symbolic impact.
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You characterise McCain and Huckabee respectively as follows:
"One knows nothing about economics (or so the Arizona senator used to say) and the other nothing about science (he alone among us is unrelated to the apes)..."
I am not aware whether you have any knowledge of economics. You certainly have little knowledge of science if you think that it requires us to accept that we are descended from the apes. Perhaps you would care to provide a single scientific fact that obliges us to reach such a conclusion? If you cannot do so then would it not be more fitting for you to refrain from such remarks?
Putting aside the speculations indulged in by many scientists the actual facts of science agree with the Bible's teaching that the only way in which men are related to the apes is that the same Creator made both.
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"I hate the BBC for this... I hate the BBC for that..."
It is both hilarious and yet bizarre that the same people who criticise the BBC return again and again to the Corporation for information. It is also bizarre that the same Americans who preach of their nation being the beacon of world democracy are the first to criticise the BBC.
The BBC is the greatest aide to democracy in every undemocratic nation in the world. Its reach extends to hidden parts of the earth many of us have never heard of. There are lost tribes in Africa whos only source of information is the BBC. Americans should love the BBC, if only for this. Remember the monks protest in Burma? What did the state-owned TV networks put on the TV screens to reassure the people they were still able to oppress them? They put "BBC full of lies". Why? Because people in Burma only have one proper source of information - the BBC. The same is the case for millions of other oppressed people around the world.
BBC-bashers may hate it but the BBC is probably the most useful media organisation in the Western world. The BBC World Service has programmes that are wtached by over one billion people. If you don't like it, why do you keep listening and watching it?
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"At 12:33 PM on 11 Feb 2008, Colin wrote:
I'm not related to the apes either."
Nor I.
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Joe writes "What a terrible point about the disenfranchising Hilary's supporters in Florida." I fail to see what is so terrible - after all, the voters themselves went to the polls in droves, regardless of what the DNC decided. Mrs Clinton went to Florida to celebrate her success after balloting was over. We must disagree about who is the winner of the debates - I don't see anything concrete that Mr Obama is offering - promises of "change" don't really cut it. And, Simon - candidates often have appeal for appearance - a white woman with a black male VP versus a white man with a black female VP. Unless there is some third party candidate, evangelicals will vote for McCain even if his running mate were to be single - a case of 'anyone but Hillary'. With regard to Colin Powell, stranger things have happened - and he would be a strong rival for the votes of right-leaning independents. In politics there are often some strange bedfellows! I don't expect either will happen, but then I don't think that there will be a Clinton-Obama (or reverse) ticket.
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> Unless Hillary and Bill implode and take the whole Democratic Party down with them.
Surely you are aware, Mr Webb, that no one section of the Donkeys has a monopoly on that tendency.
Remember four and eight years ago when both a successful two-term Democratic President and an intellectual-dwarf of a Republican alternative made victory certain?
Until Mr Gore imploded (CAUSE: hubris and wanting-his-cake-and-eating-it-too).
Until Mr Dean imploded, too (CAUSE: volcanic exuberance--which makes it 'exploded'), followed by Mr Kerry (CAUSE: wanting to be on all sides of every issue).
Now supporters of both candidates are so certain of their rightful inheritance that many do not bother with persuasion-through-coherent-debate anymore--
1 just mouth chants and slogans in increasing volume
2 just demonise anyone who does not subscribe to the doctrine of the cult.
I would not rule out the emergence of a Pres McCain--if not by his own merits, then by default as the only one left standing come NOV.
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I can appreciate that Mccain is willing to say "I know nothing about economics" at least he is truthful. Obama and Clinton have gall to pretend to know anything other than their shopping list. Each wants to spend lots on nice looking goodies and fund that spending with debt.
Given our current economy I prefer someone who "knows nothing about economics" but appears to be viscerally opposed to spending (especially pork barrel spending).
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The president of the US is not a unitary ruler[George Bush's delusions notwithstanding] Noone in the foregoing submissions seems aware that the network of advisors of any given president are probably much more important than the individual elected..Cheyney? Rumsfeld etc?
For this reason and regardless of Hillary's duplicity [which incidentally is a requirement for the job], when one speaks of experience, they should consider the very able [and not so] of the prior Clinton administration, including the "first Gentleman" himself. In treasury particularly, we could do with some depth of experience. and Hillary has access. I suspect the super delegates will consider this, and so should we all in these critical times. All candidates bring some kind of "change", the nature thereof is of the highest significance. I hope all concerned keep this in mind! We can ill afford to vote into the White house an unknown quantity..even if he's a nice guy!
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