When does old age begin?
As I've written here before, China is a country that reveres age. But there's one question that I've always forgotten to ask: when does old age actually begin in this country?
There are a few clues in the way people address one another. In China, when you're young, you can be called "Xiao" - which means little. If you're older, you can get the prefix "Lao" - which means old.
So, at what age can you get promoted from Xiao to Lao? Thirty five, says a friend of mine. However, whether you're called Xiao or Lao also depends on whether or not the person you're talking to is older or younger than you.
Still, if you've hit 35 and you've managed to win yourself the prefix Lao, you don't automatically qualify to be seen as old. For that, apparently, you may have to join a dance troupe.
This morning I came across a picture in the China Daily newspaper of a group of dancers from Shanghai posing with visiting cheerleaders from the Dallas Cowboys.
The Chinese dancers appear to be in their 40s or 50s - each of them apparently healthy and vigorous. However, the picture caption refers to them as "local elderly." (I can't imagine they will take this as a compliment.)
In China, respect for age seems to be mirrored by an equally powerful desire to delay the moment when you will be seen as old.
The Communist Party's most senior leaders - the nine members of the Politburo Standing Committee - do not appear to have a single grey hair between them. It's a fairly astonishing achievement for a group of men well into their 50s and 60s.
The only time you tend to see a government official with grey hair is if he has been arrested and put on trial - where he is deprived both of his freedom and, apparently, his hair dye.
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Where does this comment come from?
"The only time you tend to see a government official with grey hair is if he has been arrested and put on trial - where he is deprived both of his freedom and, apparently, his hair dye."
Cite your source.
Other than that, quite amusing.
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There isnt really a definite age definition for Lao or Xiao. Its purely a prefix used in front of a persons surname to address him/her. If a person who is older than you address you, he will probably use Xiao, while a younger person who is addressing you will probably use Lao.
The only time you tend to see a government official with grey hair is if he has been arrested and put on trial - where he is deprived both of his freedom and, apparently, his hair dye.
Image has become more and more important not only for government officials, but also for ordinary Chinese people. Guess people are more image conscious nowadays. Who knows, hair transplant will be next on the list. Beauty is only skin deep after all.
Hair dye will probably be the last thing on his/her mind, when he/she is arrested for corruption charges etc. BTW, dont criminals have to shave their head or at least keep their hair very short while in jail? Whats the point of hair dye??
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Aha, Lao Reynolds, there you are! I'm always astonished by the sacrifice which elderly Chinese people make for their grandchildren. It's almost assumed that once the grandchildren are born they will take on the role of carer whilst the parents are off earning the dosh. Even for Chinese living in the West, the grandparents will fly half way around the world to a strange land where they can't understand a word of the language to look after the little one. This is truly admirable.
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"I can't imagine they will take this as a compliment.". No, these middle-aged Chinese did not take this as a compliment.
In China, the retirement age is 55 for women and 60 for man. When people (in middle age) find out that they are approaching their retirement, they start to consider themselves old -- it doesn't mean they are pleased by their age or take "elderly people" as a compliment. In many cases, they just make fun of themseleves.
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The vanity of human beings crosses all cultural lines. Look at what they sell on television commercials and billboards....youth. Time is linear, it does not stop or change directions. In Chinese history poverty combined with a very hard life made a long life a rarity, so the achievement of old age was unusual and therefore revered. The First Emperor, Quin Shi Huang-Di, was reported to have died from taking "the Elixir of Life." Over 2,500 years ago the Buddha taught that human beings should accept the evident impermance of all things and human beings have continued to reject the reality of aging and death. Fortunes have been made on creating the illusion of youth. We know that in the world of politics illusion is primary, look at the world financial crisis. The financial crisis was simply the creation of the illusion that profits could be made without placing collaterial at risk or not having any at all. Human being have been cursed with a large brain that they do not have the ability to discipline. We have stumbled a half step out of the cave and mistake our ignorance for intelligence.
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They don't forget either, the Boxer rebellion and that drugs trading is going to cost us!
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For the first half of this article, I would say it is a good work of James. It shows some understanding of Chinese culture in depth with also a funny example, I have really enjoyed the story.
But again, the last few paragraphs ruined the nice piece. James, can you please stop trying to link everything happening in China to politics?
In the time of culture revolution in China, all reports about western world were ended with a remind to the reader, that a critical view over the facts should be maintained since it is from 'caplitalism' countries.
Now who is still in 'culture revolution'?
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Regarding your comment: "The Communist Party's most senior leaders - the nine members of the Politburo Standing Committee - do not appear to have a single grey hair between them. It's a fairly astonishing achievement for a group of men well into their 50s and 60s."
Hair dying is a rather personal grooving matter. I can't see James why you relate this with Communist Party senior leaders. Everybody who look after themselves and want to look the best do that - old or young, Chinese or westerners. Nothing wrong with it!
The only thing came out from your comment is that CLEARLY you are very biased against Chinese Communist Party leaders!
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Very funny ending.
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Very interesting. I think I qualify as an "Lao" next year.
I was about to say that all chinese leader dye their hairs. Apparently you have already spotted that.
Great light hearted article.
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What???!!!
Respect the elder or younger is a culture difference between China,east asian and US-UK! Elder means experience, younger means vigor!
My English language teacher in US Michigan repeated that times and times to us! That's very IMPROTANT for YOU to understand and respect different culture, if you wish to make friends with them. For example you need to understand in USA, people thinks younger is better!
What a merit my old American teacher have! Seems my teacher who teach International student 12 years is quite understand respect difference than !
Hope my respected teacher's merit won't be moderated by what rule!
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James!!!!!
Can't you find another fault of China communism Gov? So you becaming to play culture which we respected 5000 years ?!!! To finish homework when you couldn't find good topic is a hard time, isn't it?
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Barack Hussein Obama II (pronounced /brk husen obm/; born August 4, 1961) is the 44th and current President of the United States.
age 48! Quite younger than 50!!!!! 2 years = 730 days = nearly 15000 hours = 900000 miniutes = 54000000 seconds!!!
Look! How many zeros it have!!!
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I hope I am that active when I am that age. It is with envy that we see healthy people at that age going around enjoying life. I doubt many people living in other Asian cities will enjoy good health due to massive stress. Something to learn from and work towards to.
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The Last Sentence is extremely exact.
The most important reason that these Chinese emperors keep their pates black(even some of them have already bared) is to show that they are energetic and they can hold the power until they died.
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James.
The dancers you thought to be in their 40s could be in their 50s or even 60s. The polititians could be in their 60s or even 70s. Do not judge a person's age by western standard, we Chinese look much younger than our actual age.
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James, well written article, especially the last bit on the deprivation of freedom and hair dyes. Unlike what some Chinese might say, I believe u have a firmer grasp of Chinese culture and social characters than most Chinese, home or abroad.
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You may grow a beard when you are 50 years old (Chinese years, I presume). Is that what you are thinking of?
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"China is a country that reveres age" - interesting anthromorphism there! Not sure a country can revere anything, nor would it be entirely accurate to make a generalisation about a group of over 1 billion people!
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When many people in east Asia including China are worried by the spread of Influenza A/H1N1 to the region, James wrote a piece in his blogg about the apparent absence of grey hair on the heads of Chinese leaders.
I do have friends in their 50s and 60s who don't have any noticeable grey hair on their heads too, and I know they don't use hair dye.
May be it's because they are not busybody? Or they don't spend most of their precious time looking for other people's faults?
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This is not just a question for the Chinese, but at least they have Xiao and Lao to differentiate or identify to people what they are for the sake of etiquette. But it also creates more questions, as in do they decide to call themselves Lao? or if they are called it once by someone they have to keep it?
Personally I would not want to be labeled and think you are as old as you feel
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Respect for age does not necessarily mean respect for culture, or for history.
I've asked a few people older than the People's Republic, who recall the days before 1949 when there was no China Daily nor leaders with hair dye - people used to just address each other Miss, Mrs, Mister. But soon the Revolution changed absolutely everything and - calling others with prefixes Comrade and Lao or Xiao something for someone you know, became the only safe option.... Despite a slow revival of certain previously abandoned customs since the openning-up of China, the age-rank-conscious sexless communist way of prefixing "Lao" or "Xiao" to a family name remains.
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I suppose the answer may lie in ones view of old, that is, whether it is a positive or negative. I find the issue a bit ridiculous. Modern societies for the most part are obsessed with youth; appearance, vigor, perception, etc. In addition, some celebrities attempt to combine a perception of wisdom or intellect with their youthful persona as they position themselves as experts or spokespersons of critical issues. So, such is the paradox of modern man and woman to be young and wise as the masses clamor around those who appear to achieve it. Older societies who revered the elderly probably represented the other extreme, presumably equating years with wisdom, but today we have certainly jumped over to the opposite end. Moderation tends to be a mark humans often missed.
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When I was reading the newest post, I thought that James changes his writing style to some kind of humor. Apparently, it was not happened, he began with a relaxed style and made a sharp turn at end of the post and turn humor into a funny question.
I ever read a book regarding interview skill, it suggests that before going to interview,please put you on formal wearing clothe, bolish your shose, wear a tie, comb hair, make youself look as young as possible. Despite it is illegal for age discrimination in USA, but it still exists in anywhere in the nation wide.
According to the book, the explanation was because you should present your respect to an interviewer and give them the good image of your personality fulling with enthusiastic energy and passion.
I would believe the explanation in the book rather than the issue of discrimination.
It is also the cause for what chinese leader done on dyeing.
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hehe, this is not always true. For example, Wei Jianxing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wei_Jianxing) never dyes his hair and you always see it gray.
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You are only old when you die; then you don't get any older. These are my sentiments. I am a so-called Senior Citizens, but I avoid the Senior Centre where everything is made pleasant for the old. I can only manage to be old for about two hours at a time, so I never fit in. I like everything current and change since I have lived through a mirriad of changes in my life. I first discovered I was getting old when I did not like RAP. This is the music of the current generation, and I wanted to be current, not to avoid being old, but to avoid not being current.
One must look for the signs and signifiers of being old, not of aging because aging is a zero sum game: either you are in, or you are out of life, so aging is part of life. Now that I am senior, I can look back on life and criticise with accuracy because I have lived over half a century and seen every president from Eisenhower to Obama. But the Queen has always been the same. The Chinese have change, but I still prefer Mao.
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Interesting.
There is a difference between reverence for age and desire for young-looking appearance. The former emphasises 'experienced' or 'senior' in rank, i.e. the importance of interpersonal social relations, whereas the later suggests physical or bodily maintenance--a growing trend widely observed across many parts of the world.
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It is not easy to specify, it depends on every body's organism's sustainability, people living in very wrong living conditions get quickly older and probably die sooner. Biologically speaking from the age some where around 25 and 30, the body stops developping any other cells, it should be the beginning of the body's deterioration till death.
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"Do not judge a person's age by western standard, we Chinese look much younger than our actual age". An interesting point, but I have always found the opposite to be true - unfortunately. I've stopped guessing the age of Chinese now having over-estimated frequently.
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to 24. At 02:27am on 20 May 2009, thisisacryforhelp wrote:
I absolutely agree with you.
to 21. At 3:52pm on 19 May 2009, aeroarchie wrote:
"Or they don't spend most of their precious time looking for other people's faults?"
Unfortunately,your last sentence reveals your identity.
China already has a great number of TVs,Newspapers even plainclothes everywhere to praise the government or,more exactly,the party.
So criticisms could be more "precious" than wasting his time in charming up to the party.
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This is one observation I agree completely. They should just let gray be gray.
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The prefix "lao" is added when addressing a person is not just about age.It is also a sign of respect that is given for a person's knowledge or experience in a field.In this respect Mr Reynolds here would be called Lao Reynolds when it comes to his knowledge of China.So it comes as no surprise that the Chinese were astonished as to how the British Minister for environment was not even a science person
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Like I said earlier in my post. *Lao* or *Xiao* are just prefix. Most people use them without the intention of acknowledge that persons experience or knowledge. They are also sometime used between husband and wife. For example. Lao Puo (wife) and Lao Gong (husband) are frequently used as endearments between married couples. I dont think they are really acknowledging each others experience or knowledge every time they address each other. :)
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Beijing2008:
There is perhaps a political slant to his comment, but from a different point of view, Mr Reynolds is simply pointing out that the politicians of our great country, though revered for age and experience, are hesitant to reveal the extent of their aging to the general public.
Nonetheless, a good post, Mr Reynolds. Outside my home every morning there are a group of kung-fu ballroom dancers of the 50+ age range variety, it's a great way to keep looking young and staying fit.
Plus, I have to say I am much more scared of the "Anhui Ayi's" and their immensely powerful elbows when getting on the Metro than any young male of comparable size to my own. You learn the hard way in the big city not to mess with the small wrinkled ladies in terrible clothes and big forearms.
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Nice Piece, easy read, funny ending.
As a young journalist working in China, I find that youth inst always an advantage. Being in my low 20s, it is often more difficult to earn the respect of my older peers. I agree with what a previous poster said, Youth gives vigor, age gives experience. What I lack in knowledge is made up in enthusiasm.
Perhaps I should dye my hair grey and get the best of both worlds.
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Hi James, as a Chinese originally from Beijing, I may be able to give some verdict and explanations on some of your recent perceptions:
1. Hair Dye - Agree, it is only deserted when you go to jail or retire. Traditionally, we do see white hair as an annoying sign of aging, particularly considering its contrast to our complextion and the color of hair... Well after all, what harm does it do if you make yourself look spirited among your colleauges with a small beautification!
2. Deal between the Party and the people - Agree, it was something of acquiesce from both sides - democracy comes after you can feed and shelter yourself... But people are also more and more aware of human rights in recent years, something interesting to see in phase II.
3. Aha, the "lao" and "xiao" issue - It is a way to address people who are not complete strangers to you, say, acquaintances who needs to be addressed courteouly or even used on family members when (usually) it is not polite to address them by their names.
well, the 35 rule is more or less there, but do not bother to associate it too much with your age really. Sometimes there are exceptions based on the impressions he/she gives, or decided by the time he/she is introduced to others, some of my uncles in their 50s are still addressed "Xiao x", which was the way they were addressed when they first joined my family. And there are also variations like "Big x" referred to someone in the middle and who physically fits the word...
In nearly all cases, people respect others' likings by addressing them as exactly what they wish to.
4. The way we reveres age is by removing them from work and place them somewhere safe and quiet like treating a proceline... alas, it goes back to the hair dye issue from here...
My father always finds it totally unacceptable when he is addressed to
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I think old age begins, when young people look upon the elderly with pity.
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Well I am 68 and still working full time. I dont feel old. I do everything anybody else does,AND I will add I smoke 60 cigarettes a day at least - I dont touch alcohol its bad news,for me at least. But I am never sick - I dont attend the doctors surgery for anything - I definately DONT take doctors injections,they are bad news and will kill you. I try to keep clear of mainstream media propoganda and choose carefully the news I finally accept.I eat well but in moderation and I see no reason why I shouldnt continue to work and enjoy my life . I dont think I am old.
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Very good article on aging by this writer.
Generally speaking, old age symptoms starts from 60.
Because of good education,economic,social and individual income growth-all contributes man even after 60 years,they can live for longer years.
The age of Wisdom happens to them.
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James, good job!
The hair-dye shows the CP is weak like "paper tiger". They are so eager to demonstrate that everything is under their control.
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