The Semi-Attacked Politicians' Club
So, Wen Jiabao survived his assault by flying shoe.
The Chinese government has reacted angrily - it's called the shoe-thrower's actions "despicable". (Compare this to China's more light-hearted response after a shoe was thrown at former US President Bush in Iraq.)
Perhaps China's Premier should have seen it coming. After all, Mr Wen was welcomed to the UK on Saturday by the patron saint of the Semi-Attacked Politicians' Club - John Prescott.
Mr Prescott was Britain's deputy prime minister during the government of Tony Blair. He was also a tempting target for protesters.
In 1998, a singer from the group Chumbawumba threw a bucket of icy water over Mr Prescott during an awards ceremony. Then, during the 2001 general election campaign, a farmer threw an egg at Mr Prescott as he walked by. Mr Prescott responded with a hefty left hook ("John is John," Tony Blair later commented.)
Wen Jiabao's response was much more restrained. But China is a country which is acutely sensitive to insults - particularly from the West (as I've written here before, all Chinese schoolchildren are taught about this country's "Century of Humiliation" from 1842 to 1949, in which China was occupied by Western powers).
One of the most famous insults is The Jilted Handshake. A widely-told story says that, at the Geneva Conference in 1954, the Chinese Premier Zhou Enlai offered his hand to the US Secretary of State John Foster Dulles. At the time, the two countries had no diplomatic relations, and the US Secretary of State was particularly well-known for his anti-Communist passion. So, Mr Dulles refused to shake Mr Zhou's hand. This insult was keenly felt in China. (America made up for it in 1972 when President Richard Nixon landed in Beijing and came down the steps of Air Force One with his hand outstretched.)
And a colleague of mine has just come across a link which reports on the efforts of one blogger to count how many times China has been offended over the years. Out of interest, Japan comes top with 47 insults.
PS: I wonder whether that shoe was made in China.
PPS: A fascinating update. When the news first broke, the Chinese state media skirted around the story, referring to the shoe-throwing obliquely as a "disturbance." But I've just watched the main evening TV news bulletin broadcast by CCTV (the state broadcaster). The bulletin featured a prominent, detailed report on the incident - complete with the protester's shouts, Wen Jiabao's reaction to the shoe landing nearby, and footage of the protester being removed from the hall.
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I'm embarressed for the shoe thrower. It was a cheap stunt copying the earlier incident in Iraq. Except a) That had the support of the Iraqi people b) The then President was acutely aware of how his actions may have led to that incident c) The shoe was symbolic to the Iraqi people.
What the west doesn't seem to comprehend is that these incidents won't bring about change. These people have so little understanding of Chinese culture that they don't realise they're reinforcing in the minds of the Chinese that they don't need to listen to the west, because the west instead of earning their respect, have only earned their distrust.
The idiot who through the shoe won't find support from the Chinese for his actions. All he's doing is trying to make himself a hero to the west.
The same goes for the Dalai Lama. He may seem like a great spokesman, but Tibet will never be autonomous as long as he's leading the charge. If he understood that, then he would have stepped away long ago.
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Prescott is easier a traget than the thin Wen. I think amateurs should concentrate on Prescott first before tackling the various Bushes and Wens.
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It is a shame the shoe missed him. How disgraceful that this great University has a lecture from this communist dictator, currently responsible for the brutal oppression of the Tibetan people.
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Mr. Wen's shoe attacker lacks imagination and creativity. He is just another copy cat from Mr. Bush's shoe attacker. This guy is trying to get a media attention.
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Shrugging this episode off by showing examples of how domestic politicians are treated won't wash.
Wen Jiabao was a foreign guest of both the UK and Cambridge and this self-indulgent action has brought disgrace to the individual and shame to both the UK and Cambridge.
No doubt the Chinese premier has received due and genuine aplogies from our own premier and Cambridge. Whilst it is not for the BBC and its current employees to do likewise I find there is something slightly malignant about the attitude of this blog that does not sit well with me as a UK national. It's the underlying aloofness and sneering that's beginning to grate.
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James, are you in the insult list? Lol.
No harm intended.
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After watching TV and reading newspaper in the UK about the "shoe to wen", I can sincerely say the western media is really hopeless and vulgar. No surprise the western society is getting ...
About the shoes throwing to Wen, nearly all the media just report with title - "shoe thrown to Wen", but deliberately ignore the true scene: A lot of audiences shouted to the guy who interrupted the speech: shame on you, get out!"
The media also deliberately ignore the true scene: After the interruption, Wen carried on and said: "This disgraceful behaviour will not stop the friendship between Chinese and British people". The audience gave great applause lasting nearly 10 seconds.
This is a typical character of western media: only tell part of the story, the selective story!
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Though it was only an isolated incident and did not represent the sentiments of the British people, I was very annoy and upset by this unruly and uncivilised behaviour of this highly educated man who should be dealt with severely by the authorities and should not be let off lightly.
Mr Wen is the guest of Cambridge and the UK, whether we are in the East or in the West, we will never treat our guest in this manner no matter how different we are in terms of our background and political ideology.
I firmly believe if Mr Brown were to be invited to visit China, this kind of incident will never happen there. It is not because China is a communist state and will not allow incident like this to happen, it is because treating our guest well is the basic manner and value the people in China have been practising for ages.
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A really angry thing just happend,when the TVB news broadcast the news about this issuue,the mainland TV station broke it off.It's
really unbelievable!
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I think it is perfectly acceptable for the Chinese Govt to complain, since it is their right in a free and democratic country, as the UK.
But to call is despicable is insulting to a Democratic country and its Govt.
Can you imagine what the reaction would be if Gordon Brown was prevented from speaking his own mind inside China on a state visit...would the Chinese accept the censorship of being despicable??
It is good to encourage the Chinese premier to voice his objections, it will just highlight the hypocrisy further when the corollary is pointed out to him
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Yeah James and the protester's to be charged for it. What a sad country we've become. I watched the police man-handling the protesters, what a disgrace. I recall a similar thing happening when the 'St Tony' led the party. It really shows how we all ought to be a little frightened by this New labour control freakery.
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What is the big deal about a copycat shoe-thrower who mistakenly thought he would shoot to instant fame like the Iraqi original? The incident was played up by several European news media but was largely ignored by others, much to the disappointment of the copycat.
The Iraqi shoe-thrower had genuine grievances against Bush, and he committed the act in his home country. It was reported that the copycat shoe-thrower was not British.
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About China's 'Century of Humiliation,'
While taking the victimhood, 'poor-oppressed-me' route is annoying in any individual or nation, China has very little reason to whine about in comparison to others of its neighbors.
The Philippines was literally occupied for almost four centuries by Westerners who looked down their noses at the natives. Filipinos are still dealing with a massive inferiority complex in their national psyche that almost half millennium of humiliation bestowed.
The rest of Southeast Asia, minus Thailand, was also turned into colonies and protectorates. China was never made a colony of a Western power - the closest it came to that was ceding Chinese regions as Western 'spheres of influence,' but those spheres of influence were still officially part of China.
Even Japan - China's arch-nemesis - was forced at gunpoint to open itself up to the world (see, the West), and was occupied by the United States after World War II, and granted independence in 1955. It lost half of Sakhalin Island and some of the Kuril Islands to the Soviet Union - and Taiwan to China.
Now, I'm aware some of you are thinking, "but we're not them, they really are inferior; we're superior to them."
You're not.
Every nation has its ups and downs. The United States, Britain, France, Germany, etc. were all colonies, or occupied at some point(s) in their history, and subjected to their own 'century(ies) of humiliation'.
China was conquered by the Mongols. Do Chinese hate Mongolia enough to crush and annex that country? I don't think so, and the reason is that China is more advanced, developed, and powerful than Mongolia, so Mongolia isn't that offensive to Chinese.
Long story short is: your problem is pride. You're hatred of the West is not really rooted in their 'insults' toward you, but because they are (or were) more powerful than you.
Offenses from those perceived to be higher up sting more than offenses from those considered lower on the ladder, because they prick Chinese pride more.
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This news was reported in a very different light on sina.com and sohu.com (the most popular news sites in China).
Both of them have a screen shot, allegedly from the BBC, which carries a grovelling quote attributed to the British Government "deeply regretting" the incident.
But when I looked at the BBC story, this quote simply is not there.
Could the news be distorted behind the Great Firewall??
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I am afraid,from now on,all social events must require attendants to have their shoes removed at the entrance,or wear the hotel issued soft slippers.
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Well, that's how anti-Chinese things spread, via copycats in the west.
What does this teach the Chinese about western style free speech?
You may talk when we want to hear from you or I can talk all I want but not you. And shut up or I'll throw a shoe at you.
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In response to the flying shoe, Premier Wen said 'This despicable behaviour cannot affect the friendship between the people from China and the UK'.
How come BBC did not translate what Premier Wen said? Instead BBC website uses the title 'anger at UK shoe-thrower'. It a media distortion.
Premier Wen is famous of his humble behaviour and nice personality. He is called Grandpa Wen by many Chinese people because he does not lose temper easily.
James, you should know Mandarin right? Perhaps you should mention Premier Wen's comment.
Many thanks.
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Finally, after so many years' struggle, China gets to be treated the same way as United States is/are. Good for China!
Just kidding...
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So you can see that people in China need some time to get used to the freedom of news report (including the staffs in CCTV, it took some time for them to correct the report). And also you can see China actually is improving its democracy.
Chinese government react angrily because many people in China do feel angry about such news. Some others think it is ridiculous for a foreigner to do such kind of thing.
Some guy threw a shoe to Mr Bush because US invaded his country and killed many innocent local people. China did not and will never invade or hurt UK (though UK did so to China in the last century). They are not the same, absolutely.
People in UK may not feel angry when a shoe is thrown to their Premier in US, but Chinese do, especially for those who like Wen jiabao very much. No one can judge which is right and which is wrong. We are just different. Maybe you cannot understand such difference, but you should show your respect to the feelings of other people.
About the link of the report on the blogger, I have something to say, too.
As I mentioned, UK and some other west countries invaded China last century. Chinese always remember this history, not only because of the history courses, but also because of the ruins of the invasion everywhere in China. History cannot be changed.
But this history is never the main point in history lessons/tests, or people's mind. If the west media didn't remind Chinese about this thing from time to time, most Chinese would have never connected it with the news nowadays.
Sorry for my poor English.
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I'm curious why the BBC or this blog automatically delve into some culture difference trying to explain the Chinese reaction.
Wen Jiabao is considered nationally in China as one of the better politicians and he's greatly respected. If a shoe was thrown at Obama the reaction would differ from that of Bush, just as if the shoe was thrown at a local Chinese politician the reaction would be different. However, none of these reports even mentions this simple but crucial fact, instead these reports go off on a tangent. If I wasn't studying in China this report would have been very misleading.
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It seems to me that westerners are amused at this shoe throwing fad.
Well if god wills it, may be in the near future I'll be so amused myself when I hear about western leaders getting shoes thrown at them in China.
That'll be so funny, when the shoe is on the other foot.
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James
Normally I enjoy your blog but with this one I think you strike the wrong note. You are making light of a clear breach of good manners which must have greatly embarassed Cambridge University.
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Here we go, again!
The pure ignorance and naïvety of these people grind my ***s! Do they do NO research on what they're protesting about at all? I mean, we're not talking about some homeless person in downtown L.A being paid to protest about something they've never heard of. This is a student at one of the most prestigious universities in the world! Is going round protesting all they do every day that they haven't got any time to read?
First of all, Premier Wen is not a dictator. He's not even the head of state of China. President Hu is the head of state but he's not a dictator either. The Politburo collectively make the major decisions. All laws are drafted and passed by the National Congress and its standing committee. You'd think they would've made some changes to the political structure after what Mao did to the country so that there's a division and balance of power at the top, wouldn't you?
Secondly, Premier Wen would be the last of the Chinese leaders you want to insult. It's been the tradition that the Prime Minister is the most hardworking and most respected person in the country, from Zhou Enlai to Zhu Rongji to today's Wen. They are the ones that do the daily running of the country and therefore bear the most responsibility and expectations from the people. Mr Wen used to work in some of the most impoverished parts of the country so he knows what he needs to do, what the country needs to do if we want to go anywhere in history.
Third, the Chinese are here to lend a helping hand in this economic crisis. Of course noone's said they're the Messiah but there's a role for them to play and that's what they're doing here. Even if there wasn't a crisis going on, don't you think a visitor to your country might just deserve a little more respect? After all, your government's invitation brought them here and last I checked, around these parts of the world a government actually represents its people.
So for all of these reasons, yes, the shoe-thrower should be ashamed of himself, not for exercising his right to protest but for ill-informed and ill-placed self-righteousness and lack of respect.
If anything positive came out of this, it's most likely to be that this fella's gonna have a heck of a lot to brag about at all the tea parties he'll be invited to by his similarly self-righteous and equally ill-informed middle-class friends.
All of above comes from a not-so-angry but mightily frustrated Chinese student who's lived in the UK for way too long for his own good. Maybe it's time for me to go back. Yes, you can have your democracy and freedom but I'll have shrimp dumplings and hotpot over fish and chips any day of the year.
Au revoir!!
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So Wen got the shoe, the guy gets no cigar, sure hope they put the house rules on you in China, too.
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James - how can you compare prescott with Mr Wen? prescott just a depute PM for 60M British like you. you deserved to have him.
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I don't see what the big deal is. Personally, all politicians at times should get this from whatever country they are from, or should expect views that don't agree with them. Simple as that.
I'm not a fan of the Chinese government, but I think Wen Jiabao has more decency in some respects, he seems to care and show a little more humanity than the rest (Sichuan earthquake, appearance at Tiananmen Square '89 in front of the protesters.)
I find - on most topics (except Tibet where he treads the party line) - he is often more frank and open in answers.. I particularly enjoyed an instance of this when he was discussing democracy in China a few months back in an interview and acknowledged problems and what needs to be reformed. I would be surprised if any other Chinese politician spoke so openly. With all this in mind, I can understand why he is a popular figure in China and such an incident would come as a shock.
However, being part of the Communist Party, it is inevitable (and understandable) that many who disagree with their policies will target any one of them at any opportunity to make their point. Did Wen deserve this or not? Personally, I'm in two minds.
I would like to know also, has anything like this happened to a Chinese politician before in China? Thanks.
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Sure, two Jaguars Prescott deserves all the contempt he deserves for being an upstart.
But Wen is the most innocuous of the Chinese leadership, he represents the liberal strain in Chinese politics, so it is misguided to attack him.
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This was indeed a despicable act towards China's third most powerful man (how come we never hear much from Wu Bangguo?) from an individual who probably knows very little about China or Wen Jiabao.
It really is time to move on from the 'century of humiliation' which seems to perpetuate itself through the Chinese education system - presumably in a effort to breed nationalism and prevent a repeat. Take the UK for example. The Germans bombed many of our cities and killed millions of our people just a few decades ago - long enough for our grandparents to remember and still live with. Can anyone really say that hatred still exists towards the German nation? Can anyone in China today actually remember these events?
I've experienced countless incidents of Chinese nationals - more commonly amongst youngsters it must be said - raising issues such as the Opium War - presumably in an attempt to get me to apologise. I really couldn't imagine a British child asking a German child for an explanation for World War 2 - as they quite rightly understand that this is history and nothing more.
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The West needs to understand what Jean Gimmpel wrote in THE END OF THE FUTURE: China is back and here to stay. The book originally translated from the French in 1995 deals with the energy crisis and various political affairs but concludes on its last page that China will be the survival and take its rightful place in the economic history of the world.
We have to go back prior to WWII to understand China's cautious dealing with the West especially Britian and the sign in the Shinghi park reading: NO DOGS AND NO CHINESE ALLOWED! We have to go back to the Opium Wars to understand that the Chinese cannot afford to trust Oxidentals no matter how the smile and pretend good manners. They know that they are always seen in the light of the 1899 entry in the Britnniaca: As Coolies.
The US treated China dredfully considering we need their cash for our War of Terror. They are our bankers. Bush deserved the shoe. He invaded a country and had its ruler executed. The country was innocent and had nothing to do with 9/11. The US Army, in spite of elections, killed more people in Iraq than were killed in 9/11. All on a false premise. When no WMD were found the narrative of terror and war was changed to suit the Neocons purposes, i.e. freedom and democracy. However, Iraq was already a Greek style democracy and more.
China has what the West desperately needs: MONEY. If China is a dictatorship, it is for the Chinese peoples to decide and do someting about. The Chinese are tired of the insults of the West, who are for the most part now Beggars because of lazze fair capitalism caused both by New York and London.
Good manners as the Arabs always proposed have been broken by a freek trying to insult an Asian who is not an Arab is too comical to be understood.
Hard times are here in the West, he may need that shoe.
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Congratulations on China! You’ve been treated on par with USA!
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I agree 100% with galezhang's comment.
My impression is that the shoe thrower is not a student from the Cambridge University, an educated student can't have this terrible misjudgment. The Iraqui shoe thrower journalist did have a legitimate grievance, the Bushes invaded their country, destroyed their country, killed hundred of thounsands inocents people,and created millions of refugees.
Premier Wen is not a dictator, he was invited to London to discuss and find mutual solutions to the actual world financial crisis.
The media, one more time wasn't doing their job to inform their reader properly.
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As I said before, Wen is a hardworking geologist and leader. He is widely respected by most Chinese. Any insult toward him will be regarded by the Chinese as an insult to the nation, which he represented at that time.
He is serving his term and will retire after this term. I am not seeing his son being the heir as the next premier. Calling him dictator is simply not true.
I feel that, with the day-by-day increasing influence of China, as the US has now, Chinese leaders will have more and more of the same encounters. This shoe-throwing behavior is an action out of frustration, whatever that is for. If China were Fiji, Wen would not have received this gift. I would say, this is the spontaneous declaration that China is the second US. People in some countries (I heard that he is not a Brit), can not influence China into their own favor, and the only way to express their anger is throwing shoes. This is good news to Chinese.
As far as the "century of humiliation", if you can tell me that Brits did not try to dope Chinese with opium with force, I think its time for the Chinese to change the history book. If that is the truth, I don't see anything wrong to teach it in the history. If you don’t want to learn that and want to pretend that it never happened, you can choose to do that.
I simply don’t care that there are other people in the world who were subjected to the same humiliation as we were and still feel gratitude toward their colonists. Chinese is Chinese, we have our own way. If you want to do business with us, you’d better learn that.
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Not a very original idea from some one I presume is a student/? at Cambridge. I wonder if having shoes thrown at you has the same amount of significance as in the Middle East
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How strange that Wen is genuinely loved by many Chinese people in China and overseas. But, some western radicals call him a "dictator". He is the CEO of China Inc. Does that make him a dictator? Doesn’t someone have to make executive decisions in a corporation? I just do not understand how democracy-maniacs define a dictatorship.
Anyway, I saw the clip on this site. Thank you, BBC. I am very taken by how gracious Wen was. Wen is one of the most polished politicians in the world. Well done, Grandpa Wen.
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When Britain was Great, no self respecting Englishman would need to copycat some third world act.
The Iraqi ended up with free shoes for life. The English didn't even get his name in print.
How sad.
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These posts are ridiculous! It's not about China vs. the West, it's about one person with a shoe and what he is entitled to do with it under the law.
First of all, I know in the most Western democracies speech is protected, but certainly not all actions, even symbolic ones like this. I am pretty sure what the student did is illegal. There are ways to protest, but this is not one of them.
Secondly, do not equate one person's actions with the intentions of multiple MILLIONS of people. Let's not forget, the family member of a U.S. Olympic coach was STABBED TO DEATH IN BEIJING while visiting a cultural site during the Olympics. No one I know would blame all Chinese for that murder, so please understand that democracy means we do not speak as one.
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The sad reality is this:
the Iraqi guy will be treated as hero after his release, but this English thrower will not be liked in China at all.
Although he is calling for democracy and freedom for the Chinese, but the chinese will never see him as a saviour. The small exile chinese community overseas who greatly resents the communist regime cannot represent the mainstream chinese population. I am not suggesting that the chinese communist party was advocated back home, but for the chinese people, a calm whitehaired chinese scholar is a much better leader than a western lunatic who probably cannot find Tibet/Taiwan on the world map.
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James:
Your analogy to a shoe being thrown at Bush is FAR off the mark, if solely for one simple reason -- The US had invaded and occupied Iraq!
I'll give a more "light-hearted response" to a shoe being thrown at Grandpa Wen in England when the Chinese flag flies over Buckingham Palace.
In the mean time, please excuse China's less-than-amused approach to the incident, and revive from your cutting room floor (if indeed it had even made it into your draft), Wen's dignified response to the incident as mentioned by several of the other posters above and Britain's embarassing apologies therefor.
To throw at Wen when you're against the CCP is akin to throwing at Obama when you're against the US. Shameful, embarassing, and most decidedly wrongly targeted.
Thank You.
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James,
Why are you - and some others in the West - so insensitive to the feelings of Chinese people? You seem to joke about how Chinese are too uptight and touchy regarding perceived insults.
But look at how people from other countries (including the West) respect the sensitivities of countries other than China. When the West wanted to do business with Japan, Western businessmen learned how to use chopsticks with proper etiquette, remove their shoes on going indoors, and even bow. When living in the Middle East, foreigners learn how to adapt to local Muslim practices and refrain from certain activities in public. In parts of SE Asia, others learn not to point at people with the index finger. When visiting temples in many countries, foreign women know that they should dress conservatively. The list of examples where people respect other people's sensitivities is endless.
So how come China's sensitivities get treated with scorn by some Westerners? Why is it a surprise when Chinese get annoyed by other governments' chummy meetings with enemies of the state? Why is it strange when Chinese are angry that another country attempts to whitewash the history in which their grandparents are massacred with extreme cruelty? And why is it big news that China protests when its Premier is disrespected at a formal event?
The only other similar situation where another country gets repeatedly insulted (that I can think of) is in Thailand - where drunken Westerners seemingly cannot resist insulting the King. But compared to the situation with China, those actions are sporadic and not perpetrated by sober, thinking people with such vehemence and persistence.
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16. Anon Calif.
I think that sums it up rather well...
41. galezhang
Since you're in the UK i would thought "you got the point". But i don't think you have.
It is not so much what he did, but that he is allowed to do it. Regardless whether one agrees with the students actions or not, he is allowed to protest in any way shape or form, so long as it is not against the law.
In a free democratic society not all comments are good or friendly. Such actions often pique those it is aimed at, if so, then the protest has achieved its objective. If not, then it is quickly forgotten.
The only objection that anyone should have is that both were invited guests at Cambridge Uni, as guests, they should both exorcise decorum and etiquette. Clearly the student didn't, that is regrettable.
Hard to engage in real dialogue if basic rules of decorum are not observed!
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A 69 years old man could risk his own life to comfort the people just after the biggest earthquake in decades. The man who talked frankly about communism, china and everything.
A 27 years old man could rik his own life to just get attention from media. The man who talked barely truth about Wen, china and everything.
Throwing a shoe doesn't make any so called "freedom" good in any understanding of the culture.
Please Respect other people, respect yourself.
For james, you have been to the earthquake zone. You have reported the bechaviours of Wen. Show some maturity to the rest please
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James Reynolds:
....So, Wen Jiabao survived his assault by flying shoe.
I am sorry that this activity happen....
~Dennis Junior~
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James:
...Interesting post script about the making of the shoes....
I have to make my predictions...They were made in China.
~Dennis Junior~
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i think it's not fair to keep implying that China hatched the nationlistic mood by teaching Chinese youths about the country's "Century of Humiliation", if you haven't done it, they wouldn't really have any of the materials to teach them, or you expecting they teach the kids that during that time all the western countries loved China and helped Chiense people progress and relax by doing Opium trade??
We can forgive but we cannot forget, history is history, what have been done has already been done, we pray and sometimes fight to make sure that bad things will not happen again : )
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The Iraqi shoe thrower was a "brave" faced up to the invader ,and the" Cambridge University's shoe thrower" was a copycat joker. kind of feeling sorry for him to have picked the wrong area where it is supposed to be a place for higher ideal.
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James:
Regarding your P.P.S. about Chinese coverage of the event of the shoe-throwing....Maybe, they did not want to put more into it, then what happen...
~Dennis Junior~
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James:
In my remarks @3.45...CCTV wanted to wait until they had more information and a chance to put the story into context...
~Dennis Junior~
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#16
Foreign powers did grab parts of China as their colonies - the Portugese in Macao, the British in Hongkong, and the Japanese in Taiwan. It's not that foreign powers didn't want to colonise the whole of China but it would have been ungovernable if they did - it would be like 10 present-day Iraq, as the Japanese had found out in the 1930s and 1940s.
#18
So you think the BBC story is the gospel truth? LOL
#38
Though most Chinese were very surprised and annoyed that a shoe was thrown at their immensely popular premier, they will not throw shoes at western leaders who have nothing to do with the action of this copycat shoe-thrower. But this copycat shoe-thrower may get a few kung-fu kicks from less-restrained Chinese if he shows up in China.
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To all the ignorant people out there,
When visiting a foreign country, our primere represents the Chinese people. So when you throw a shoe at our primere, you are throwing a shoe at the Chinese people. Be prepared for consequences.
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seems the moderators are either a sleep or not able to get to the beeb through all the snow to read these....no change after 24hours....!!!
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I hope more western people can come to China to feel about this country by yourselves. What's China like? Do you really know? You only hear from your TV about China, we can say you completely don't know China.
We Chinese people respect you, as we learn English, and we learn about your culture. We know about your freedom you talk about, so we respect your behaviors in your culture patterns. But you ? Do you respect us ?
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I was on this Chinese forum yesterday and people there were talking about how they will do a 'human flesh search' for this thrower. What they will do once they find him I'm not sure. Language violence was abound.
They captured some pictures of this man from the video footage and were trying to identify this man... And they were trying to tell his nationality (why is this important anyway?) from his accent.
Apparently these people think 'justice' must be served their own way.
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Rude and odious individual. I hope Premier Wen continues to take these rent-a-mob types in his stride. If as mentioned this unimaginative protestor is not British, can we throw him into the Atlantic to swim home? We do not need such protestors as guests in this country.
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Why there is no report on who this guy is? When that Iraqi threw his shoes at Bush, he's got the full treatment: who his family is, who he is, name, address and how his brother die. I think report says he is in Cambridge Magistrates next week. I am going to see who this person is. Anybody with me?
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I don't think shoe thrower is something new, at list in south Asia, I mean, even the one who thorw it to Bush, it wasent the first time at all, for example, in India people do that many times as it is one of the worse insults to any one that is hit with a shoe, it is mostly used by womens molested or attaket by mens.
I think we the comon people need to make our voices up, as no any politician or anyone elected by the people are impune or out of reach, as usually when they are in power just looks too powerful but ones they step out, they are just as we are and I think is time we the faceless, comon people have our say in any way as usually politicians use alot of power in they adventage and profit, this it means we the people have power and we must use any way to be hear, of course, I don't agree with violence, and remain them, we are the peole, specially the chinese need to understand they too can be they own masters to choose and get respect from the people that have the power and let them known, the real power iis on the people not in a goverment that just kill tibetans, if they do peaceful demostrations, or comon chinese when show they grievances or complains, the problem with chinese is fear of the comunist goverment.
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zzzzz. manpet and the rest of his chinese internet police are at it again. Forgotten how to read English have you? Funny how that I learned from reading and watching the BBC news that the audience indeed did shout "Shame on you" to the protester.
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what can I say?
On one hand, it is cambridge university, which is a top university in my mind;
On the other hand, there is a stupid student (I do not know he is a student or not) throwing shoe to my PM
Cambridge student can behave like this? no wonder british ecomony and political power are getting ....
I will fly back China and wait your PM's visit =)
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I have found that many western protesters are lack of basic manners. No matter what they would be cheered here at the west at least by some.
Also from the torch snaching from a wheelchair bound girl to the shoe attack of PM Wen, these western protesters again and again are showing their poor judgement and how extrem they are. A liberal PM is treated as a dictator. That shows me how informed they are.
I would like to ask the westerners a question. A Chinese person can be attacked for political reason here in the west. Is this a wrong conclusion of mine?
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"44. At 5:49pm on 03 Feb 2009, Flying_Toaster wrote:"
Exactly my sentiments. However we should remember that politicians are revered differently in different countries. I think that civilians in China have no problems of throwing shoes or obscenities to local government officials who are directly involved in their plights. Wen Jiabao doesn't get this treatment in China because they wish for all of their officials to be like him. Cherish the good and object the bad.
This Cambridge student - unfortunately my fellow colleague at the uni - is either misinformed, or doesn't know pragmatism or a good Chinese role model in these developing times in China. Wherever he's from, count himself lucky for not enduring what the Chinese had to during the cultural revolution.
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Strange, but my previous message here got removed. I think it was because my other messages were deleted due to a closure of message boards. Anyway, here is my message again:
Now, I have no idea why that guy threw the shoe (was he a pro-Tibet supporter?), but this whole anti-China thing is getting pathetic.
First, anti-China supporters accuse China of using violence against Tibetans when the same violence was demonstrated against a poor handicapped Olympic torch bearer (recall the girl in the wheelchair attacked by a guy who looked as though he is supporting a soccer team?).
Then, they accuse China of censorship and lack of human rights when their own medias censored news of secret torture prisons and denied Iraqis, Northern Ireland Catholics of human rights. (Protestant-Catholic conflict, mind you)
Now, they disgrace China's premier by throwing a shoe at Wen. So people like Wen and Bush deserves this kind of disrespect? What did Wen do to UK? Let me remind everyone that the person who threw a shoe at Bush was an Iraqi journalist whose country faced military actions from USA (but I still think it was outright disrespect to a politician), did Wen use military actions against UK? What reasons do a UK guy who probably never even went to China have to throw a show at a politician that never did ANYTHING to his country? Ignorance? Stupidity? Or a mere lack of respect?
Pathetic it may seem, those "human right defenders" and "anti-China" supporters aren't gaining any respect or support for their actions. Any wise man would not resort to this if he wants to advocate justice. Not only that, they demonstrate so much anger towards China's human right violations, while they turn a blind eye to their own human right violations. All the crimes they accuse China of doing has been committed by their own country either in the past or present, and I don't see any "human rights defender" saying a single word about that.
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Within the Chinese Communist Party there are opposing factions. PM Wen is a moderate and one of the most liberal you can get. There are hardliners within the CCP who wanted Wen out. Criticism of Wen by so called human right activists in the west would only strengthen the resolves of hardliners within the Chinese leadership to remove him and would be counterproductive. Protesting against Wen is like criticising David Cameron for Gordon Brown's mistakes in government.
I find it rather sad these protestors are not particularly clued up about international politics and what they are protesting about before throwing their shoes about like a bunch of headless lemmings.
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Cambridge is Cambridge. So Wen survived, John Prescott remains an unbeatable club favourite.
Gossip: Peter Mandelson was on CCTV. Again. CCTV (or say say TVey) news, whose camera techniques are uncopiable, the video editting is indescribable, and their scripts favour shiny adverbs, adjectives and numbers, too (not recommended for learning Chinese). Least not most, it does show a hint - who is who.
No need to worry about the Friendship - "The buyers group is coming (to Heathrow) soon." said the CCTV 4, and later added "the two nations' relationship won't be affected (by a flying shoe)."
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The student was clearly a fool.
If the UK Police decide to pursue this through the court - which I expect them to do - then the offender will receive a criminal record, thus affecting his future employment prospects. He clearly deserves it.
As a lesson to others, he should be imprisoned too. Although I doubt if the UK Police will have the courage to press for this.
I hear that some of the pro-Independence protestors were arrested and then de-arrested, after breaking through Police lines when Premier Wen visited the Chinese Embassy in London. Such flimsy application of the law probably encourages others to try their luck too.
I'm sure the Shoe-throwing student was aware of the implications of his crime. Probably he doesn't care.
As for the incident itself, it'll be forgotten about before long. The real tragedy is that Premier Wen did not deserve this insult.
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It was a cheap imitation done by a mediocre person who has prejudices against the people of China. At least the attacker of Bush was right in doing what he did.
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Premier Wen said 'This despicable behaviour cannot affect the friendship between the people from China and the UK'.
That is the whole sentence.
But why does BBC only pay attention to the word 'despicable' ?Why doesn't BBC pay more attention to 'friendship'?
And BBC even uses the title 'anger at UK shoe-thrower' ,what does BBC mean by doing so ?
What Mr. Wen said shows Chinese people's determination to keep the friendship between people from the two countries.
But BBC uses the only one word, and just says that how angry Chinese people are at the man who threw the shoe.
Chinese people take actions to keep the friendship ,while BBC's report can mislead those who don't understand Chinese ,and have bad effects on the friendship.
Why does BBC do this?
Don't you need to feel shamed on this incident by giving a report like this ?
And I want to say, this incident is totally different from the one happened to Mr. Bush.
Mr.Wen came to Britain to enhance the friendship between the two countries, and to find ways to overcome the difficulty in economic crisis together.
However, Bush had just brought Iraq a war before he came there and what would you do, if your home were distroyed into ruins during the war,and the man who brought the war were just in front of you?
Well, I really felt very very disappointed when I read BBC's report.
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James,
I live in UK.
Did you watch BBC TV programme of Wen's visit to the Chinese Embassy in London?
It is a totally biased report as it just showed the 'Free Tibet' people and police. It gave public a twisted story.
Actually there were many more pro-china people there welcoming Wen's arrival.
Why BBC's video camera missed the main stream China supporters at that moment?
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@AnonymousCalifornian on your comment
"About China's 'Century of Humiliation,'
While taking the victimhood, 'poor-oppressed-me' route is annoying in any individual or nation, China has very little reason to whine about in comparison to others of its neighbors.
Every nation has its ups and downs. The United States, Britain, France, Germany, etc. were all colonies, or occupied at some point(s) in their history, and subjected to their own 'century(ies) of humiliation'."
Only 'poor-oppressed-me' thing isn't what's been taught in China. The message from these lesson of the 'Century of Humiliation' (also not the name used) isn't victimhood. But rather it is the duty of our generation to prevent the same thing from happening a century ago. Of course the sublime message is that westerners now are pretty much the same as the imperialists from before, and goal is still colonize/dominate China via different methods by west.
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#16 AnonymousCalifornian,
I think exactly otherwise.
China is treated with hatred by the West is because it is thought to be more powerful than them in the near future. Now many Chinese may hold a hostile attitude towards the West, but it has nothing to do with "the century of humiliation". Think about what the West did in recent years.
I would like you to know that even if Wen gets humiliated in a country as small as Tuvalu, Chinese people would react the same way.
Your Mongolia analogy makes no sense. Do British hate Italian for the invasion of the Romans? Do American hate British for once being colonised by them?
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A brave guy who did this. But maybe he should have thrown a turtle's egg ???
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#41
"The Politburo collectively make the major decisions. "
-Yes, decisions by a cadre of elites with no real input from the people affected by these decisions.
"All laws are drafted and passed by the National Congress and its standing committee."
-Don't make me laugh, the Congress just rubber-stamps any decision made by the Politburo. They wouldn't go against the Politburo.
Is Wen Jia Bao a dictator? Well, he's the figurehead of a dictatorial State, that's for sure.
"All of above comes from a not-so-angry but mightily frustrated Chinese student who's lived in the UK for way too long for his own good. "
-I see. I'd be very interested to hear the opinions of British-Born Chinese on these issues, as well as Chinese students in the UK. Might be an interesting contrast.
"Maybe it's time for me to go back."
-Well, that's your decision. It might be for the best.
"Yes, you can have your democracy and freedom but I'll have shrimp dumplings and hotpot over fish and chips any day of the year."
-Well, that says it all really. Bye.
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#13
"Can you imagine what the reaction would be if Gordon Brown was prevented from speaking his own mind inside China on a state visit"
-Western leaders are regularly prevented from speaking their mind about human rights and Tibet etc.
They do mention these issues in a kind of sterile ritual of 'going through the motions' when they meet Chinese officials, who politely sit there and listen to a brief mention of human rights so that the UK politicians can cover themselves back home. The issue is then conveniently put to one side. They then begin to talk about the real issue: money.
Prince Charles apparently had a go at raising Tibet in an honorary dinner with the Chinese Premier, but the Chinese Prem's wife just shouted at Charles 'Northern Ireland! Northern Ireland!' Ho ho ho.
If a UK politician genuinely challenged a Chinese elite about human rights etc they would be asked to leave, no doubt about it.
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forget about this idiot, his action only showing that he is copying what happen to Mr. bush, I just found it tasteless.
I knew he wants to make this show, and I actually expecting a more drama one. he choosed a wrong place, a famous uni with hunderds years of history, a wrong time when everyone needs to talk not throw shoes to each other, and wrong language, the iraq shout in arabic, he use English, that even make it more suspicious about his motivation to do this, least the Iraq guy shout for his country and his people, this one shout for whom? britsh people, not in logic.
come on, what a rubish we all seen here. Well, the serious attitudes of the UK pubilic media towards this incident, make it even more funny, I really try to belive there is a anger amount a group of people about China, its people and its leaders, after this one, I only free all of thses are politics nothing to do with people, general public either west or east watch it, laugh at it, and forget it after 2 weeks.
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my little opinions about James's question in case he had chance to interview the primer Wen.
about 4th -June, I am not very familiar about the histroy of shooting protesters in the UK or other countries. but one thing I sure about is there had been thing happend similiar to 4-June in UK or other countries as well, and I sure that there are reasons for those conflicts became inavertible.
so no one is better, do not think those been shot are completely innocent people.
I hope James study a little Chinese and do a bit more research about this history events, and look at it from the point of view of general public of China. if you found out something, then tell your readers and audiences, who actually behind it?, where all those "student leaders" went? who provide financial support for the plot? and what this wave of deadly and violent destruction bring to China? how much the cost to ordinary Chinese people?
As a Chinese, I'd been in the city during this event, when I was just 9, after so many years, after read and balance the different reports both in China and west.
I honest opinon is that, if there is anything need to be remeber, that is the government did a right thing, stop it before it destroy the whole country. I feel sorry for those students lost their life, I hate those who lead them to the square, and after all, those "leader" all fly away. what they did for the country? from my point of view : very little and very limited!
if you ask Mr. wen, do you have plan to commemorate 4 June. even me want to ask, to commemorate whom? and why? I doubt those dead contributed much to their nation, compare with many, their blood largely paid for their own mistakes. for those deserters? or for the party? at least they did the shooting, which is not nice but no chioces lefted.
so I feel this is a event only can be recorded and learned, but not be commemorated. any formal annual ceremony would not be appropriated in our culture for things like this.
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All politicians beware! All of you should learn how to dodge flying shoes from Mr. Bush and Mr. Wen. Now the score board is politician 2 and shoe throwers 0. Shoe throwers, you gotta do better than that and keep up your good work for the next round.
But the thing gets me is that how come a Cambridge Scholar ( if he is) would lower himself to the extent to be a copy cat? where is his originality, ingenuity and his pride?
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I hope that the anger of Chinese people will in one day lowered.
There are too many incidents to anger with: an actress that played with her boyfriend at a beach, some foreign firms that donate too little, an actress that played a role in a film that didn't 'love her motherland'.
Then, there are too little time left to deal with the problems inside, such as corruption.
I want to see a better China.
-- Just a guy from HK
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A nation who forgets history is hopeless!
Chinese were all taught in schools as well. This is the fact. Take it whatever you like it or not!
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I've got say, whilst unsurprised, it never ceases to amuse me how many knickers are put in a twist by Mr Reynold's, generally, even-handed comments.
I'm sure if he said 'China is the greatest country in the world bar none'. There would still be people on here moaning about how what he's saying is symptomatic of the west's repression of Chinese growth.
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"How dare you say we're too sensitive to insults? Take that back!"
Etc.
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I cant believe some one has actually called Premier Wen a dictator and felt it right that someone should throw a shoe at him. I often wonder if these westerners who want to 'free' Tibet have actually ever been to China or Tibet and seen this 'oppressive' regime. Sure China is not a democratic country but it does not mean its people are evil as they are portrayed in some western media. I certainly feel safer and more welcome in China than i ever do in this country and i am English!
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To AnonymousCalifornian:
You have made your points - you are in extreme short of basic historical anaysis skills and you're a supporter of colonisation. And your argument is based on your own biased point of view.
It is not only country who was "literally occupied" suffered from the pain of being exploited by another nation. Though China has never been wholely controlled by any western country, most of western countries had their concessions in major chinese cities, whose influence spred in the around region. They announced various wars against China and forced the Chinese government to compensate their lose by a series of treaties, which includes giving up territory, paying back silver, opening new concessions and allowing the import of opium. Thinking all the treasures in the British Museum and Louvre, were they all acquired in a decent way? Most of them were robbed from China. Why can't Chinese try to remember these humiliations?
The reason Chinese commemorate the 'Century of Humiliation' is NOT to hate foreign countries, BUT to encourage the self reflection of avoiding the repeat of the history. It is written in every chinese history book that it is due to the conservtive attitude and lack of self-awareness at that period, China was behind the world in almost every aspects, and was invaded and semi-colonised. Therefore, Chinese are trying to catch up with the rest of the world and to integrate with other countries.
Taiwan was forced to give to Japan during sino-japanese war. It was not a part of Japan at that time. Therefore Japan didn't lose it to China after WWII, but return it to China.
American's history is written by white protestent colonists, not the native americans, who would commomerate the "Four Centries Humiliation" if they are the one who wrote it.
Yuan Dynasity and Qing Dyansity were founded by non-Han ethinic groups. But they resepcted the Chinese culture and integrated with Han groups. Chinese normally don't take these periods as colonistion not because Mongol and Manchu were less developed then ethnic Han, but because their integration with the locals.
In a word, you can only see the history from your own stand, though it is a low stand indeed.
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Apparently, the fool who threw the shoe is in court in Cambridge on 10th February.
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The student was clearly a fool.
If the UK Police decide to pursue this through the court - which I expect them to do - then the offender will receive a criminal record, thus affecting his future employment prospects. He clearly deserves it.
As a lesson to others, he should be imprisoned too. Although I doubt if the UK Police will have the courage to press for this.
I hear that some of the pro-Independence protestors were arrested and then de-arrested, after breaking through Police lines when Premier Wen visited the Chinese Embassy in London. Such flimsy application of the law probably encourages others to try their luck too.
I'm sure the Shoe-throwing student was aware of the implications of his crime. Probably he doesn't care.
As for the incident itself, it'll be forgotten about before long. The real tragedy is that Premier Wen did not deserve this insult.
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#108 peoplevsmarket
"I honest opinon is that, if there is anything need to be remeber, that is the government did a right thing, stop it before it destroy the whole country. I feel sorry for those students lost their life, I hate those who lead them to the square, and after all, those "leader" all fly away. what they did for the country? from my point of view : very little and very limited!"
What did the students want? They wanted more open and democratic system for the country and they wanted the corrupted Li Peng to resign. How was this going to destroy the entire country ?
It is a false claim saying the movement would destroy the country. How could a bunch of unarmed students cause a threat to the country to a point that they must be killed? They even had tanks everywhere in the square.
Now you are sitting here comfortably accusing these student leaders flying away after this movement. What do you expect them to do after their friends were shot and killed by the government?? To stick around and still have some kind of faith in this country hoping one day the government would listen to them ?
What do you expect these student leaders to do? To go back to China trying to make a difference only to find they are instantly arrested and jailed as soon as they reach the border checks ?
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It's just remind me that China is the Middle Kingdom, everybody outside it's border are truly barbarians no matter how developed they are. The latest incident indeed could only happen outside China and will never happen in China. The old Chinese saying, it's a great honor to be able to host guests whose came form far away. China is the most civilized and peaceful nation in the world.
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#126
I can't agree with you more.
China has cutting-edge technology in network filtering, which perhaps not only the officials are proud of.
So please don't expect Chinese to be able to receive unbiased information. Normally, the people can only receive the official message: 'The government had done the right thing to stop the chaos'.
I recalled an interesting news:
An advertisement commemorates the June 4 'event' was made in a newspaper. The police arrested the staff who they believe had deliberately passed such message to the public. They later found that the staff don't even know anything had happened in 4 Jun 1989.
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But in my school I was told to forget the past no matter how gloomy and dark it was
and to move on,to forgive and forget,to take care of the future .
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and I was told the downfall of a country is
because of traitors within and not because
of its enemies......
PS:comment 133 and thisone are response #112
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#126. I think your comment is probably rather insincere.
We all remember very clearly the objective of the student leaders. The idea that they were unarmed (supposedly) is neither here nor there. The purpose was a political purpose, the end result of which would have had extremely serious consequences for Greater China - but perhaps wonderful for those - mostly outside of China - who would have profited from the subsequent turmoil, which, for the avoidance of any doubt, most definitely not have been the ordinary Chinese people.
The very clear nature of the students objective was the fact they paraded around the Square a mock-up statue which resembled the Statue of Liberty - a symbol of America.
But that was then.
Now, hundreds of thousands of Chinese students are educated in the West and return to China with their qualifications hoping to benefit their country from their education and experience. They take back with them Western methods and ideas. Thoughts on innovation and culture, commerce and industry, best practice and corporate governance. All of which adds to China's progress - which it enjoys and will travel along in its own time.
Just think, as an example, of what has happened in financial services. In the UK the first limited liability company something of the kind we have today was formed in around 1650. In 1992 the UK created a code of corporate goverance for companies, ie nearly 350 years later. In 30 years, China has created a stock exchange, privatised a lot of State-owned enterprises, created a property-owning class and created a financial services regulator to stand over it all.
Celebrating where China is today, and how far it has travelled, is key.
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To 103. At 8:34pm on 04 Feb 2009, Bloofs wrote:
I'm a British born Chinese dude at Cambridge Uni. Lived in the UK all my life. I agree mostly with the Mainland Chinese people, though they are a bit too aggressive for my liking and tend to neglect the more spiritual side of society.
To say that mainlanders are brainwashed is just a roundabout way to avoid an argument. They probably know more about Western society and history than us over here - let alone their own.
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To 126. At 7:42pm on 05 Feb 2009, heyone
The students spurred a nationwide congregation of civilians which resulted in chaos on both fronts. It wasn't a one sided engagement and this mass congregation was about more than democratic reform, the non-students also had other concerns.
Most people in the West don't know more than 'there were students in the square'.
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#128 ricky-tanzil
"China is the most civilized and peaceful nation in the world."
If you care to look at how people have been responding to this flying shoe incident on some Chinese online forums you will find how civilised and peaceful some of these people actually are.
Then you have these other people who are very interested in the trial of this man at Cambridge Magistrate Court. Not that they are law students or something, just that they wanna see who this guy actually is. If he gets jailed (which I think is unlikely), then fine. If he doesn't, drama follows.
Studying the past makes you tell what's gonna happen in the future a little better.
There was this girl at Duke University who spoke for the Tibet activists. Soon her fellow foreign students, who were very keen on keeping Tibet in China's territory, made all her personal details public. Soon she found herself and her parents harrassed and her parents' house at home attacked by some mysterious dirty substance that I don't want to name here. Of course lots of violence was involved.
Lets look what kind of drama these people at Cambridge will stage this time and whether they are as good as those at Duke in 'harmonising' people.
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#139 Heyone -
I think that's just the way some people are. It doesn't mean it's typical of everyone.
After all, who on this earth would have imagined that British soldiers would gouge out the eyes of arrested Iraqis. It's hard to believe, isn't it? - But it happened.
There's good and bad in everyone.
Will the student who threw the shoe be picked on? Who knows. To be frank, I'm not sure if I care all that much, and judging by the others in the room who applauded Premier Wen afterwards and shouted at the offending student, I suspect they don't either.
What we do know, is that if the student is convicted of an offence it will affect his employment prospects and his ability to travel to other countries. After all, who wants to employ or let into their country someone who is untrustworthy, lacks integrity and displays a criminal lack of control. For a start, I don't think the US usually does.
Just think if the CEO of a future employer were to offend the student. Who knows what could happen!
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#49, dear davidwhite44
The key difference between the relationship between China and the West and the relationship between Britain and Germany is the difference in political system.
Germany and Britain have the same system.
Since the western governments do not like the Chinese political system, they try to overthrow it, using all means whatever it is.
Since the communist government is the only government that has prevented any foreign occupation within the last 2 centuries, it is only natural for Chinese to suspect the West's motive. In particular, the fact that those human rights activists don't care a bit about the life of an ordinary Chinese make Chinese people even more cautious about their purposes and resent their cause.
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#139 heyone,
I agree with you on this one. Chinese people are not harmonous. so, don't mess up with Chinese, or majority of the Chinese.
The differnece betwen Chinese and a lot other peoples in the world is that chinese are good at revenge and are extermely patient and take time to wait till time is mature...
I have to stress: this severety of revene especially applies to traitors, if you are farmilar with Chinese history and literature.
As I said before, we have our way of life and value, if you want to do bussiness with us, you'd better learn to get used to it.
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#137
"I'm a British born Chinese dude at Cambridge Uni. Lived in the UK all my life. I agree mostly with the Mainland Chinese people, though they are a bit too aggressive for my liking and tend to neglect the more spiritual side of society."
-So, do you believe that the freedoms you enjoy here in the UK, should not be offered to Chinese people?
Is it true that Chinese are not spiritual, but rather their spiritual side was eradicated by CCP? Look at the huge numbers of underground churches in modern China and a resurgence in Confucianism, to see China reawakening to spirituality.
"To say that mainlanders are brainwashed is just a roundabout way to avoid an argument. They probably know more about Western society and history than us over here - let alone their own."
-I didn't say mainlanders are brainwashed, I said it might be interesting to hear the views of Brit Born Chinese. You agree with the Mainlanders, ....fair enough. I didn't expect a uniformity of opinion from British-Chinese.
Mainlanders are indeed, not brainwashed, but they are very patriotic/nationalistic, and see criticism of their ruling elites and system as insults to themselves as a people. That's partially a cultural issue, but also partially because they have never experienced democracy, with its satire and lack of respect for politicians which we experience in the West. But then you're usually going to 'respect' someone who can order you to a labour camp if you criticise them...
When someone threw an egg at Deputy PM Prescott for example, most people in the UK thought it was very funny, and indeed some people wanted Prescott not the egg man prosecuted for using violence. And... it was an egg! How insulting would that be to a Chinese politician! Stupid egg!
I'm not sure exactly what it is you agree on, with the Mainlanders. I'm sure I would agree with Chinese people on some issues!
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I really missed what PM Wen speech to address world economic crisis. It is more important isn't it? China is the only bright spot in this global crisis. We have to learn from Chinese experience. For exploring these nasty and shameful incident, it just reflected back to you how bad your civilization behavior are. No matter how developed you are.
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Learning Mr Wen was insulted in Cambridge of England, I was a little angry and disappointed, but the attitude of England media made me feel disgusted.
To most Chinese, England is a decent country, with its people wise, smart and polite, with holy university Cambridge.
Well, the medie shamed England and Cambridge. I feel sorry for you.
Please stop insulting yourself!
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To heyone, posted#139;
You are right my dear, thank you.
That's way I used the word of MOST, which I mean is ALMOST ALL, or MAJORITY.
Anyway make a comment over somebody's comment is not polite. Just make your own to Mr. Reynold's wrote. This is HIS blog.
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Wen has apparently asked for the student to be forgiven. This is a nice move on Wen's part. He shows class as a smooth politician.
The same can't be said of Bush.
As a Chinese saying goes, it is more precious than gold for a young person to turn around and redress mistakes.
I hope this shows the student of the new China.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
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