Saying sorry to the Chinese
Apologies matter to China. A few from recent history...
- In 2001, a US navy aircraft collided with a Chinese military fighter jet off the southern coast of China. The Chinese pilot was killed in the collision and the US aircraft was forced to land on Chinese territory. The US crew was detained and only released after the United States wrote a letter in which it said it was "very sorry" both for the death of the Chinese pilot and for entering China's airspace without verbal clearance (whether "very sorry" was an admission of responsibility or an expression of sympathy was left unclear in the original English text).
- In 2008, a pro-Tibetan protestor tried to grab the Olympic flame from a disabled Chinese athlete during the torch relay in Paris. Shortly afterwards, the French president said sorry in a note hand-delivered to the athlete.
- And earlier this month Cambridge University apologised after one of its students threw a shoe at China's Premier Wen Jiabao, during a speech the leader delivered to the university (Mr Wen subsequently asked the university to forgive the student).
Now the most successful athlete in Olympic history has joined the apologisers' club.
The US swimmer Michael Phelps, who won eight gold medals at the Beijing Olympics, has appeared in an internet video addressed to his fans in China. It comes after the swimmer was photographed smoking marijuana.
During the 51 second video Mr Phelps speaks over Chinese subtitles, "To my Chinese friends, as many of you know, I recently engaged in behaviour that was regrettable and not what people have come to expect from me ... To the young people of China, please learn from this lesson, be positive in life, and do the right thing ... I look forward to returning to China soon."
The fact that Mr Phelps chose to address his fans in China may reflect an attachment to the country which made him famous. More realistically though, it's a sign of the importance of the Chinese market to his remaining sponsors - particularly Mazda. The swimmer recently signed a contract said to be worth more than $1m to promote Mazda cars in China - it's the largest ever sponsorship deal for a western celebrity in China. An apology may help to protect the company's investment.
Some of you may debate whether or not Mr Phelps's video statement to his Chinese fans is a real apology - he doesn't actually say sorry at any point. But his sponsor believes that it counts. In a statement, Mazda says that the athlete "apologized to the Chinese public through a videocast."
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Say Sorry matters in every country I think. If you have done something wrong or let down people who have confidence on you, you need to say sorry.
The four ex UK bank CEOs said 'sorry' this Tuesday in House of Commons, but I cannot see any remorse from them, and I cannot see the 'Sorry' has calmed the public anger either.
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As I understand it the concept of Face - and consequently of losing Face - is a major factor in Chinese social relationships. Face refers to both character, reputation, position and authority. Face is carefully maintained and forms a major part of social interaction between both individuals and countries.
To quote from Wilipedia (Yeah, I know! There are other sources on this if you Google - aisa losing face )
"'Face' refers to two separate but related concepts in Chinese social relations. One is mianzi and the other is lian, which are both used commonly in everyday speech rather than in formal writings.
Lian is the confidence of society in a person's moral character, while mianzi represents social perceptions of a person's prestige. For a person to maintain face is important with Chinese social relations because face translates into power and influence and affects goodwill. A loss of lian would result in a loss of trust within a social network, while a loss of mianzi would likely result in a loss of authority.
To illustrate the difference, gossiping about someone stealing from a cash register would cause a loss of lian but not mianzi. Repeatedly interrupting one's boss as he is trying to speak may cause the boss a loss of mianzi but not lian."
Phelps lost face (both lian and mianzi) with his actions. It was more important for him to show repentence and try and regain Face with the Chinese than with an American or British audience.
Do your Chinese readers agree?
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There must be thousands of apologies being said every minute in this world. Is there something wrong or special when apologising to the Chinese?
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for marketing ppl, sports stars normally give the images as healthy life styles, looking after your own body, smoking ciggrates has the potential to damage a sports star's image, not to mention this is marijuana.
Making a simple statement to say sorry, it's a small gesture, doesn't cost much, but makes it a lot easy for everybody, his agent, the products he represented, the customer buying the products.. so why not
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Having lived in China for 8 years, I can honestly remember only a handful of occasions (and I mean perhaps 2 or 3 times) when a Chinese person apologised.
Making an apology is admitting that you are wrong. To 99.9% of Chinese people that is such a loss of face that it is unthinkable but they will do it if they have to, to placate a superior.
Mao used to force Chinese people to make self criticisms. Perhaps he saw something in the Chinese character that could be improved, even after 5,000 years of self proclaimed civilisation?
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"$1m... the largest ever sponsorship deal ever for a western celeb in China..."
-- I can beat this record with ease myself. LOL. James, have you conviniently pocketed some "0"s ? The Chinese won't eat you if you say sorry.
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Yeah James, apologies matters to everyone/nation. Why does China need a "apologisers' club"?
Phelp's apology not a political show like the others. He is a role-model and need to do so in order to preserve the image his hard work earned.
It will be more interesting if the response from his Chinese fans are posted here.
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Be nice to China. The UK will have to borrow money for 2012.
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If you have done wrong against someone and you wish to be forgiven for it then an apology is a must. This is a universal rule not just a Chinese one. In that sense an apology is important to the Chinese just as it is to any other cultures.
In any case, as a Chinese, I don't think Phelps has done anything that warrants him to apologise specifically to the Chinese people.
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James Reynolds:
Says sorry, in every country matters....
~Dennis Junior~
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Westerners and western governments have learnt to say sorry to the Chinese. Is this a progress made by the westerners or Chinese?
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Ahhh, saying sorry without saying "sorry". The art of appearing contrite while admitting no guilt (though possibly alluding to it).
Normally I think of Asian cultures as possessing the most class, finesse, subtlety... but this makes me realize that isn't necessarily the case. We're just used to this sort of thing in the west; we know such apologies are meaningless but necessary, lacking in emotion or feeling but the absence of even a hollow apology is worse.
The problem, though, is that while the "sorry!" is necessary and expected, since no one is actually sorry they have learned nothing, aren't at all sorry and will likely do more misdeeds. That's the way of the world, I guess.
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If some one did wrong, the some one should apologise, rectify and compensate when necessary.
This is basic courtesy.
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We don't care whether Michael Phelps appologize or not at all. Who care?
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Maybe someone can answer this for me: what is so objectionable, if anything, about Phelps smoking marijuana (particularly in China)? The reaction of sponsors in the U.S. has been to distance themselves from him, but many people don't really mind or care. He didn't do anything to discredit his accomplishments, he just broke a minor law that many people think is bogus anyway.
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You never need to say sorry in New York City, just be ready for a beating.
So in China, you better know who you cross and be fast with the sorry bit.
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I think it depends whether "saying sorry" matters or not. For example, Phelps' sorry may be very important for some of his fans, but for me and many other Chinese, it means nothing and he should be sorry for himself.
Regarding the first 2 matters, "sorry" is very necessary and significant but not enough at all. Most Chiese are disappointed at our government's weakness on this kind of issues and as a result many countries would like to do something to anger China again and again.
No doubt, it shows Mr Wen's great tolerance and forgiveness to ask the university to forgive the student who offend him so much. We Chinese tend to give a wrong-doing people a chance to correct himself just as a famous Chinese saying "it's more valued than gold for a wrong man to go back to the right way".
Although the Cambridge student's behaviour is really irritating, it's just a personal atction and most Chinese would agree with Mr Wen's decision to pardon the student.
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Saying sorry is normal for every country, but it's more important in China. If you have done something wrong, you must say sorry sincerly. Look at the milk scandle. Even though the companies killed many many people, the people in charge still said sorry in public. In China this means something. In the UK, people would not believe the sorry.
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James, tell me why?
why does apologies matter to China?
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I agree with #3.
You have a deep understand of the word 'face' in chinese.
It has two meanings:
1. face/visage, a part of the body
2. social perceptions of a person's prestige / honor ...
And as i can see, face also includes both meanings in English language.
We say ' losing face', and don't say ' losing one's prestige / honor...'
The word 'face' here certainly doesn't mean one's real face / visage.
And according to my own experience, chinese say much less 'sorry' than westerners. and i totally agree #18 with:
" In the west, we know such apologies are meaningless but necessary, lacking in emotion or feeling, but the absence of even a hollow apology is worse"
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sorry is such a beautiful English word isn't it? you destroy someone's reputation and you say i'm sorry. You kill a person then you say sorry... wow thats amazing. i'm sure most of these people who are saying sorry don't really mean it.
China is becoming a powerful nation and there are a lot of countries to whom china is becoming a threat and who tops that list? its USA. Cuz there is no army man who would just feel like ok lets go hover over china with a spy plane for fun. Its because US feels threatened by China as its growing more powerful. Why weren't these things happening so much during the 20th century? its simple because at that time china wasn't that powerful as it is now. what about 911? if the terrorists had said sorry for blowing up WTC would america not have attacked afghanistan and iraq? I don't think so... And if you actually mean to say sorry then why send a letter? why not publicly say it. When you can humiliate someone publicly then? you feel embarrassed to do the right thing by saying sorry? WOW that's amazing hands together for these countries...
I don't mind Phelps doing drugs I mean its his life he can do what he wants to that's not much of a concern to me compared to the other things mentioned
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hi there, i m a chinese studying in uk for a few years.
I v been attacked by teenagers three times.
and had some 'very nice' moments with the bus drivers and tesco till and ..... some of my colleagues(not only chinese) have the same experience as well. Sometimes after my complain, i recieved some cold 'sorrys'
but for British and those who live in UK, do think they meant it when they say so?
for chinese ppl here, if the BBC wants the Brits to believe that China is not a good place to go. then let them be. We will still have our great life and get richer and richer.
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One day, the people who demonize China over Tibet will also say "SORRY".
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Apologies do matter in many incidences. Otherwise why is the British public demanding an apology from the Labour government and Gordon Brown?
jayfurneaux, I appreciate your efforts in elabroating the 'Facing saving' factor in Chinese culture. And I have seen in many books where cross-cultural communication is discussed that this 2001 Sino-US collision was quoted as a reflection of the Chinese 'Facing saving' culture in political communication. I however cannot agree that in these incidences 'losing face or face saving' is the only factor that matters. James, you might as well associate it with 'National Sentiment' but were you not taught to say sorry if you did something wrong, especially hurt someone else's feeling in school? It is just as simple as that.
As for the apology from Mr. Phelps, I would more look at it from a PR or marketing perspective. No brand would be happy to see its ambassador 'misbehaving' even if it is to be promoted in a market where many local people are misbehaving too. If Phelps were to say sorry to anyone, that would have to be his $1m cheque writer.
Oh it might be better if a clear criterion would be drawn upon the membership of 'the apologiser's club' of China, if there was one. As I just don't think that Michael Phelps should have the same honour as the torch-grabber and the shoe-thrower.
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I think the idea of saying sorry comes down to common decency, which is something the Chinese authorities expect. I don't think it's down to the idea of giving face as such - just old fashioned politeness.
In some Western economies the idea of anyone being accountable for anything has been hard to come by. It's been more apparent of late, and usually grudgingly given.
And in the case of Michael Phelps, even if his apology was based in part on commercial interests the fact is that he has found himself accountable - and has been called to account - for his actions.
At the end of the day, if it's felt that an apology is merely being given for the sake of it and not meant, then it should be turned back as inadequate. Sometimes, just an apology won't do and a penalty can sometimes be necessary.
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'Face' is very important in China and you can explain many things they do if you understand how important face is.
They can't afford to lose face on a less-than-perfect singing performance from this little girl in the Olympics opening ceremony so they decided to have this cute girl lipsynching on a not-so-cute girl's voice.
I'm not expecting any of the CCTV leadership to step down for letting their people burning TVCC building down. They apologised and lost a lot of face so they thought it's good enough of a punishment and job done.
It's just absurd why Phelps apologised specifically to the Chinese. But it all makes sense when you think about how much business Phelps actually is in China.
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I don't care about Michael Phelps' apology at all. It's his own affair and he should be sorry for himself.
Apologies are surely necessary for every country, but sometimes more is needed. For aircraft collision matter and many other international affairs, Chinese government is too weak and disappointed many Chinese people very much.
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When someone caming down and humbly saying I'm sorry, a really sorry,....... I believe the Chinese people would have big heart enough to forgive you.
What happening is happening.
They will never forget of what you did.
I mean they forgive, but not forget.
What they really want, is a promise, a real and deep promise that all of these trespasses against them would never happen again.
Respect each other, love one another, caring one another, forgive one another, all of these examples would makes of what a Harmonius Society really are.
And that makes China a Big
Nation.
PS. You already forgot Belgrad Bombing 1999. Don't you?
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I recommend the articles by Brendan O'Neil, who can be found on Spiked Online.
His 'Challenging China-bashing' section is most illuminating.
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#36
" You already forgot Belgrad Bombing 1999. Don't you?"
Nope.He mentioned it in one of his posts back in July.Anyway,what abt all the Chinese
who have settled down in USA after the
incident?they seem to have forgotten it much earlier than Mr.Reynolds did...
just like someone pointed out in a previous
post,when it comes to ur personallife,money
u wouldn't mind living in the 'WEST',do u?
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When was the last time the Chinese Government apologised for anything?
Demanding apologies from others but never apologising yourself is about dominance, not manners.
Between the Great Leap Forwards, the Cultural Revolution and the invasion of Tibet, the Chinese government was responsible for the deaths of millions. It has never apologised.
To admit any fault on the part of the Communist Party would be unthinkable so blame has always been placed on cults of personality, or splitists, or foreign devils.
The world is waiting.
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There is an unfortunate issue in the UK, and possible other countries, where the word 'sorry' is said out of politeness and without real meaning.
If I pushed you in the street causing you to drop your belongings and I just said 'sorry', it's just a word. If I say 'sorry' then offer to pick up your belongings, then I am making an effort to apologise.
I think Chinese seldom say sorry for exactly this reason. It's better to apologise for your action by doing some good, than it simply saying one word.
lslove: It is a shame that you have experienced verbal attacks whilst in the UK. I hope you can still find a way to enjoy your time here and know that not all people are as bad as this.
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The Chinese government still hasn't apologized for the massacre in Beijing 20 years ago. Actually it doesn't even allow anybody in China to openly discuss it.
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In my opinon, the incidents took place in 2001, 2008 and recently in Cambridge should not have taken place at all in the first place if the western authorities had been careful and sensitive enough while dealing with other countries, China is just one of the victims of the arrogance and the lax of security in the West.
As for the apology of Phelps, If the apology of him is of no business consideration and attachment, then I would say he is sincere to apologise to his fans in China and to the country that had made him famous in the world.
From all the incidents highlighted in the article, I could firmly draw this conclusion: If China is a very weak country with no international influence, would the west apologise? I doubt.
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Bu hao i su is used very often in the daily life. In the Japanese culture, sumimasen is also used frequently. Admitting wrong is a form of human affection for each other in the east.
Two thousand years ago, the Confucian humanist won the debate against the Legalist, while such social development never occurred in the west. Thus in the west, people apologize too little because there are penalizing legal implications within the system.
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From the blog entry:
"In 2001, a US navy aircraft collided with a Chinese military fighter jet off the southern coast of China."
The American reports of that incident had it that the Chinese pilot was harassing the American plane over international waters, and due to his bad flying accidentally collided with the much larger and less nimble American craft, killing himself and putting the Americans' lives in danger.
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Perhaps the CCP should say sorry to the million Tibetans that have died as a result of PLA violence,
starvation or suicide, and for the desctruction of 1000's of monastries and Buddist culture.
Perhaps they should apologise for the forced abortions, torture and imprisonment for peaceful protesting?
How about apologising to the real Panchen Lama for holding him captive since he was 5 years old?
Can they apologise for the systematic descruction of Tibetan culture by turning the Tibetans in to a minority in their own country?
To SliceJohn #31
I am sorry that the Chinese people are so ignorant of what happens in their own country. Perhaps one day they will realise what has taken place over the past 50 years and apologise to Tibet.
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Apologies DO indeed matter in China and I am glad that several people have explained the concepts of "mianzi" and "lian" which are vital to understand why they are important.
Your article is entitled: "WHY apologies matter in China," but you don't address
the WHY, you just give a list of famous apologies......
Has the BBC given up putting the right titles on things???
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I think it's about a country's culture, just like many western people think thank you is important as well.....not a big deal
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I think the Chinese government and people are not given a fair shake. Especially from the democratic governments of the world. Also from the human right's activists.
I am an American, born and raised unfortunately no chinese blood in my veins. However, I love China. Even as a kid i drew the flag, and studied the culture. Things such as acupuncture, war text, and the great wall. I still have a dream to walk upon the great wall on day.
I think all these countries need to learn to stay our of internal affairs of other countries, and treat the citizens of another country with respect.
China has bailed out more people with capital than many of the other countries. Next time your country statesmen give speaches, make sure if the talk about communism the make a distictive difference between old soviet and the loving China.
President Jintao is loved, and truly cares for his people. I honestly believe that. I love the Chinese people, love the country and yes I think if anyone deserves apologies it is the Chinese, especially from all the other countries not giving them enough respect.
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sure, some people should say sorry sincerely for their bad behavior. I think the most important thing that people should learn is to respect and understand first instead of criticizing and blaming others. first China doesn't output revolution, second we don't output starvation and poverty, we also don't afflict you, why some idle people always like to criticize us?
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Michael Phelps and "The four ex UK bank CEOs said 'sorry' this Tuesday in House of Commons" have much in common.
Saying sorry after getting paid is so mammon.
Liars and 'Sorriers' are one breed.
Using words just for greed.
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To post 34 by heyone,
FYI, the person directly responsible for the fire at CCTV, the head of its engineering department, together with 8 other people, were arrested on the day of the fire.
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Hey James,
Michael Phelps saying sorry ... not that relevant!!?
Are you going to write about the fire that gutted part of the new CCTV complex in Beijing? And in particular how thousands of Chinese people use the event to mock the CCTV and its censorship policies?
That's relevant!??
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Whenever I hear people going on about 'face' I cringe. I become indignant that one nation above all think they are the only people on earth who do not like to be made to look stupid or have their ego dented. An apology received after insistence, implied threats, sanctions, or just because you are the new class bully, is worth precisely nothing. Creep if you have to, but let's hope there are some who are not for creeping. If an apology is relevant, then it will be universally recognised as such and an honourable individual, institution, or nation should offer it wholeheartedly. Furthermore, the receiving party should have the grace to accept it FIRST TIME and not expect the apologist to return over and over again and eat humble pie. Undeniably Chinese has been wronged in the past and it should be recognised. But let's not milk it.
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I don't understand the semantic argument. One does not have to say "I am sorry" or even use the word "sorry" to apologise. That, I think, is a Britishism and Mr. Phelps is certainly not british.
An apology is an act of contrition and the English language has actually many ways to convey it. The semantic variation that Mr. Phelps used is actually more compatible to the asian mindset than simply saying "I am sorry." It is, in fact, a deeper apology yet retains Mr. Phelps his honor (face). Whereas a more perfunctory "I am sorry" would not.
But then, asians do not require the ego-destroying, self-dishonoring, and humiliating groveling that British apologies require, as witnessed by the recent public flogging and humiliation of the HBOS and RBS chieftans.
Note, by contrast, that during the recent congressional hearngs, of the eight TARP recipient banks, only one needed to apologise, Vikram Pandit, and he did, followed by the suitable act of contrition of sacrificing his salary until citibank once more achieves profitability.
Had someone insisted that Jamie Diman (JP Morgan Chase), for example, say "I am sorry" he would have thrown the TARP money, that he was forced (excuse me, "encouraged") to take, back in Congress' face and damned the consequences. The Wells Fargo CEO is another that didn't need to take the TARP funds.
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Tis a shame the China can't say sorry to it's own citizens for human right abuses...but I'm just being picky
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#51 bluejeansbj
"The person directly responsible" reads like "scapegoat" to me. Jailing /sacking a few nobodies is always the best way to create an illusion of accountibility. As if there's reason to believe the leadership are spotless as they've always been and they had no idea this million yuan spectacular firework show was planned.
This basically is CCTV saying sorry, our people did that illegally but since the CCTV leadership has NO CONTROL and NO SAY on what their subordinates do, the leadership will take no responsibility. Top-notch management skills at work here.
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derek_boon: It has already been written about
The link is http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7884275.stm
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To heyone:
I would consider head of the engineering department part of the "leadership". If you have to go further up then it will have to be the president or vice president of CCTV, and I personally don't feel it fair or necessary to arrest or fire any of them, unless investigation shows that they have approved, are aware of, or should have been aware of the plan of the fireworks. It's as if firing Wen Jiabao for any misconduct of any of the ministry heads.
To post 53 by beamused:
I don't entirely agree your theory about apology: it's as if only volunteered apology counts. Unfortunately in this world there are plenty of people who lack the wisdom of realizing their mistakes and the decency to acknowledge them and apologize for them. That's exactly the reason why they made the mistakes in the first place.
And frankly speaking I think this entire blog is pointless. So Phelps apologized to Chinese audience, so what? I didn't even know that and I certainly don't care. And obviously his apology was not requested or forced by the Chinese. So how on earth did James draw the conclusion that apologies matter to the Chinese or that the Chinese are face loving? Even in two of the other examples that James cited, the apology was not requested or forced by the Chinese. And in the third one, ie, the aircraft collision, an apology is certainly justified - they entered China's airspace without permission, that's an invasion, and an apology is the least that they can do. So in all these incidents, China did nothing wrong, the other sides did something wrong and apologized, and amazingly James once again picked China as the subject of ridicule. What's wrong with China becoming the recipient of an apology??
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Many governments in this world need to apologise to either their own people or the people of the other nations. The Australian government recently apologised to Aboriginals 200 years after white men robbed Aboriginals of their land and took aboriginal children away from their mothers. Anyway, no compensations. The leading democracy, the United States build their civilisation on top of African slaves' bones. Have they ever sincerely apologise and compensate the blacks? After killing millions in vietnam and achieved nothing, they refused to apologise, right? The same situation applied to an even more ridiculous war in Iraq, right? Admitting fault is the first step after that comes the apology. The democratic governments of the US will never admit its fault especialy when it comes to its wars against other nations because there is no such push from its voters. The logic is an apology from the democratically elected governments is an indirect admission of guilt of the voters. So there is no such apology possible.
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saying "sorry" is worthless, especially you did something wrong seriously. As the bankers say sorry to the taxpayers, or the Australian government say sorry to Aboriginals, or even The janapnese say sorry to us, the chinese.
many heartless animal behaviors
the west culture's logic is that when things like above, then a sorry is ture sorry, they knew it. But after the "sorry", many times nothing happens, and the offenders get the ultimate relief.
In China, people think differently, you don't get that relief easily, because if you do, you will make the same mistakes again and again. something we accept if they happen again, but something we don't.
that why Chinese demand sorry from the offenders to make sure they know what they do is not acceptable by Chinese.
if those offenders think they wouldn't be bothered with that, they would not offering sorry at first place.
the "Face" matter is also not only for the Chinese, it goes every civilized socity.
the original meaning from that: Face is such important part of your body, when you going out you will clean your face and ladies even put themslelves another face on. these show respect to others and yourself, only barbarians do not care about their Faces.
so the Face is not something simple, it is a way of show how gentle and civilized you are. nothing to do with honor, that is seriously misleading. SO, Apparently, all the parities where they knew about this and offering sorry to the Chinese is turely try to aviod being seen as uncivilised, but the attitude of those parties are different, which no one could influence with. however, no one is stupid, who try it sincerely, who play game,
show the characteristics and will be eventually help or devastate them in the futher.
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