When losing becomes a national tragedy
China's Olympic team has done so well that it's beginning to suffer from the Brazil football team syndrome. When you expect to win every time you turn up, it becomes a national tragedy when you happen to lose (parliamentary inquiries, coroners' inquests, calls for the immediate exile of the coach, etc).
The Chinese diver Zhou Luxin was expected to win a gold medal in the men's 10m diving on Saturday night. A victory for him would have given China all eight gold medals in the diving at the Beijing Games.
But Zhou came second. Not a good move.
An interviewer from Chinese state TV asked Zhou why he hadn't performed well enough. Commentators said his failure had cost China its chance at perfection.
I've just had a look at some comments on Chinese online chat rooms (we've translated them into English)...
"Very disappointed! Everyone expected Zhou to get the 50th gold. But he lost, he is the criminal of our country. We lost the most important gold medal in men's diving event. It is a huge shame, Zhou Jiehong, the team leader of China's diving team, should quit her post!"
"What Zhou lost is not a gold medal. He disappointed the hopes of the entire country. Hosting the Olympics is the dream of several generations."
Some are more sympathetic ...
"Every Chinese athlete knows how important the Beijing Olympics is, and they have much more pressure than the foreign athletes. Zhou is still young and has lots of chances. It is okay not to win a gold at this Olympics. He has done really well. The failure can get him to work harder in the future."
"Those people criticising our athletes are so bad in their attitude! Is it necessary for them to do that? Why should our athletes be regarded as medal machines? If they can't get gold medals, they will be criticised, if they get golds, everybody says loving words. These people are so nasty!"
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why comment? It's a waste of time. I wrote a comment 3 days ago and it still remain unmoderated. Typical british efficiency!
the BBC moderators seem to be on strike or maybe they're too busy watching the olympics on telly.
If this is a sign of the British at work then London is going to need a miracle if they're going to stage something even half as good as the Chinese have managed.
So James, at least you managed to read those Chinese comments made in China, looks like there's no hope for me writing on a British based British website and getting it passed by your British moderators.
I wonder if this will get censored by the British as well? Hope not, as James seems to be allowed to write about the Chinese, why not me about the British.
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People need to give Zhou a break. I don't think all this excess pressure helps athletes perform at their best, and certainly unhelpful criticism is insensitive to say the least. The dominance of China in diving is already very impressive. Last time I checked China was at 100 medals and still leading the gold count. China should be very proud already.
Plus, the Aussie Matthew Mitcham seems like a nice guy; so congrats to him.
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James,
You wrote:
An interviewer from Chinese state TV asked Zhou why he hadn't performed well enough. Commentators said his failure had cost China its chance at perfection.
--------------------------------------
I wonder how 'an' interviewer and 'commentators view point represent a 'nation of 1.3 billion and thus your blog headline
"losing becomes a national tragedy" ??
and again:
" I've just had a look at some comments on Chinese online chat rooms (we've translated them into English)...
And you you read 'some' comments on chat rooms ...... "
And you headline a phrase like that?
I fully understand its your own view point and you are entitled to whatever view points you have.
However, I can also understand why
chinese around the world and not only in china are naturally disappointed with people like you writing employed by BBC to write headlines where its surely is your own views but affiliated to BBC. And BBC proclaims itself to be just, balanced and fair ....
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What's your point here?
I cannot believe you are using the title "When losing becomes a national tragedy"
All my friends and all Chinese people I know don't think so.
You are too exaggerating......
I think some swimmer throwing a bottle of water to a female volunteer is more like a national tragedy for his country. Why don't you look at what some Chinese say in the online chat rooms about this?
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It shows how well democracy works in China. For everything, there 1.3 billion opinions, that's more than you can ever pick for comment.
A good journalist usually looks at the broadside, not little corners
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oh my... So nowadays BBC journalists make reports based on words from the "online chat room"? and conclude that it's becoming a national tragedy bcoz a handful people showing disappointment in these "chat rooms"?
i start to doubt that i have been overestimating BBC jounalists' professions.
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I have to say this is another piece of blatant distortion of this nation by you Mr Reynold. By selecting 2 pieces of condamning comments you are trying to portray China's lost of that diving gold as 'a national tragedy', and by putting another 2 different opinions you are trying to make people think you are disinterested. But this can only fool western people who do not know the truth and can only get information from media like BBC.
Thet fact is, most (over 90% as I've seen, not 50:50 as you intimated) Chinese ordinary people do feel disappointed (certainly, Zhou lead 30+ points before last dive) but not upset at all, let alone are angry at Zhou who is so young. Many of Chinese people think highly of Matthew's perfect last dive and agree he deserved the gold. Some are even happy to see this competition has not become one-country-monopoly.
'National Tragedy' is a far-distorted description for this and only events like 5.12 Sichuan Earthquake can match that word.
Well done Mr Reynold.
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It is always the case that there are going to be more than one kind of voice in every discussed issue. Some think this, and some think that. However, most of the time the western media, seemingly purposefully, choose to only report one side of the voice, just to make Chinese look like brain-washed people.
At least this time James made a difference.
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Hi James,
There is one thing you must know, the person who wrote their comments against or support the athlete can only represent a few people, and these people are active. For the normal people, we will not regard the losing of a gold medal as a national tragedy. Most of the people will feel easy about it. Because our athlete did very well.
So, your title has a very big problem.
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If someone can explain this moderation thing...Are there no moderators on the weekend? But James you certainly are diligent.
Well, back on the topic. Not a bad report James. I see you are trying very hard to be fair and let voices from both sides to be heard.
There is still one thing that makes me very uneasy though. Maybe it never occurs to a Britain that losing in the most important tournament (not necessarily the Olympics) can be unacceptable---well, this is very liberal indeed---and I applaud this. However, if you know the story of Li Ning (and since you wrote about him, I'm pretty sure that you know this man), you will come to a rather different conclusion. You will probably not use such a title as "When losing becomes a national tragedy"; instead, you will prefer this one: "When losing is becoming less and less a national tragedy".
Your opening line that "China's Olympic team has done so well that it's beginning to suffer from the Brazil football team syndrome" is a misconception. Losing had been a national tragedy long before you wrote about it. While you think that you have discovered something new, astonishing, and disturbingly unfair, the people in the know can see the trend that such "tragedy" attitude is getting out of fashion.
Good job overall!
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Oh, by the way, I think you have noticed some Nigerian football fans with the slogan "We can't compete in gymnastics, neither can we in table tennis, but we can in football" which alludes to the failure of the Chinese man's football team. And what we Chinese respond? We give it a good laugh.
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wow!
Losing gold at Olympics is a crime now?
who knew?
Perhaps the critics would want to step up and replace Zhou themselves?
Zhou cracked under pressure, anyone even remotely aware of human behavior would understand and appreciate the effort. At least he had what it takes to represent his nation, to participate, while all of you critics sit on your butt and judge and evaluate him.
?????
Translation : Get a life.
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Where has the olympic ethos of doing your very best against others regardless of medals or placements/standings gone.
Is it not a major achievement just to be chosen to represent your country in your chosen sport/game.
Perhaps the reaction of the chinese in relation to thier atheletes is why the olympics should have not gone to china. Winning appears to be everything in the modern games not the cammeraderie and competition/taking part. Too much money is ploughed into the games, too many PROFESSIONALS take part the games are too commercial. As i recall the games are supposed to be for amateurs
It is nice to win and competitors should play to win, however, just being there should be the real gold. How many countries would sent teams or compete if no medals were given and no financial or political gain available. Games sponsored by MCDONALDS, COCA COLA, thats the healthy option (i don't think)
I have not watched a lot of the games but i am proud that the british and irish competitors have done so well.
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Yes, we expected Zhou can get this gold media and we think he should get it because he got highest score before last round. But when he was failed in his last round, we really felt sad, I think this is an normal expression. Anyway, I think all Chinese will not blame him and can understand him. A Chinese.
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Just to get to the Olympics for any athlete is a Great Honour for any athlete and basically every one gives their best regardless of winning or losing. I am British and proud of every athlete and sit in admiration and am envious of their position.
All other nations can take pride from it and well heres a small poem I written whilst watching the TV this morning where it scrolled through all the medals and competitions and showed the medal winners and the athletes who suffered heart ache. Anyways a heart felt poem which i think every nation can take a look at and should learn to be proud of all the athletes who have competed win or lose.
An Olympic Dream ? Beijing 2008 to London 2012.
For all dreams to be made,
For all those to follow,
Let there be gold,
But let there be sorrow.
An astounding recital,
The pride of a nation sings,
And all for the glory,
Of those 5 Olympic rings.
For all those competing,
who may not have won,
They shoud be proud,
of what they have done.
As Great as a nation,
So small but so proud,
Olympians of our nation,
Make the crowd sing aloud.
But truth be told,
Gold medals lost and won,
I am proud to be British,
So bring 2012 on.
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Seb Coe stated on the BBC that those who failed in China will have their funding cut, sounds like we're just as bad as they are, pot, kettle and black comes to mind here.
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Those comments could be seen on the 606 forums after Idowu "only" got silver and Dobriskey "only" got fourth.
Even though I posted on the BBC's forum, I would not consider it a rational place to gauge the mood of a nation.
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Most of the Chinese people did not think so and no one else will extraggrate the situation like you.
The last sentence shows no one else is as nasty as you.
I know this comments will be blocked again and to confirm my impression of free speech.
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They should give credit to Matthew Mitcham, not chastize Zhou Luxin. No matter how good you are, there will always be someone better. And that better someone does not have to be chinese.
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In school, I was taught Taoism was the "process," the "getting there," not the goal. However, the Chinese have forgotton their heritage of 5,000 years.
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James.....
It's not a tragedy. We Chinese have changed a lot in terms of our attitude towards gold medals and olympic. Zhou's failure were not considered as the same as Liu Xiang's retreat. It is just a very few of us who critisizes our hardworking and competing heros. The only athlete intensively bamed during the olympic, is Lamaser Liu Xiang.
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Is GB forced to change as well?
Change is bilateral between different countries as the world is increasingly globalised.
The drive behind the change is the reconfiguration of world powers. The fact is that how legitimate your cause sounds depends ultimately on who/what you are, how much (economic and political) power you have! This is the kernel of politics.
The result of the increasing clash between individuality-saturated ideology vs group-oriented ideology is the change on both side. The British learn more about the benifits of group solidarity and the Chinese learn more about the respect for individual diversity. The British may accord less importance to self-centred traits and the Chinese may use more British irony to satirize the restrictions imposed on them.
Having lived in both countries, I admire both just as I enjoy the Chinese group marshal arts as well as the British individulised performance in the Olympic ceremony.
Beyond polictics, as real people, we need both.
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James ,
U should just lighten up and enjoy the games like the rest of in China. What a great show we put on only for ppl like u to write irrelevant articles like this. Talk about selective reporting, several comments on adolescent websites and u call it a " national trajedy"
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Maybe before this article you should give a whole image of chinese online users. You must know already that chinese netizen would say anything, good or bad (well, sadly, most of the time, bad. look at what message you got when reports something bad about china.) But you also should know and i bet you already knew that the netizen cannot represent chinese people. So it's better if you give out an explaination first, then there would be less misunderstanding. If not so, i bet u will and maybe already have got lots of threats now.
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If Mr Reynolds mean to suggest that the Chinese do not take kindly to being second in sporting competition, maybe he should examine the biggest culprit, the US. Even before the start of the games, the Americans were preparing the world for the fact that they were not going to perform as well as the Chinese. Instead of attributing it to their own mediocrity and inadequate practice (how else can one explain their atheletes' ineptness in exchanging batons in relays), they, and their western running dogs in Britain, Australia and New Zealand, chose to blame everything on Beijing, from air to food, from so-called unfair refereeing to the so-called inflated ages of the Chinese gymnasts.What a sordid bunch of sore losers. And also what a despicable bunch of party poopers, who from day one were determined to take away what that was good and fun in the Olympics. They conspired to inject every conceivable political issue into the Olympics, from the Tibetan issue to Darfur to China's so-called environmental failings. Their sports commentators covered the events with the predictable nauseating bias. On top of that, these untutored commentators repeatedly mis-pronounce the names of Chinese athletes, leaving me to conclude that they must be tone-deaf from their inability to master the 5 simple tones of mandarin, as well as unwilling to learn the proper pronunciation of Chinese names, even though hanyu pinyin (the system of romanisation of Chinese characters) has been around for quite some time. And if these were not enough, they massaged the figures so that the US can appear at the top of the medal tally with the most medals.
I am glad the games are over. The eyes of the Chinese world-wide are now open, for they have come to see the West for what it is.
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Stay longer in that chat room will ya?
Then come back and think if it is fair to give even number of sympathetic comments and those who seems comes out of phyco hospital.
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>When losing becomes a national tragedy
FUNNY indeed.
None around me thought it is a national tragedy, maybe there are a few in 1.3 billion people thought this way, and brilliaint BBC/James as usual chose those as representative.
This exactly shows how the West media bias againist China, selective reporting for its own hiding purposes, in the face of free press.
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Don't fool others,
people may feel disappointed,but won't say"he is the criminal of our country".
think about liu xiang,he gets all surpport from the whole country.
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Just a game, and I think most of the silent people ( out of the chatroom) would take it easy.
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James - I think all the criticism from China every time you mention something they don't like is getting to you! You've been reduced to putting up a few comments (from both sides) without drawing any conclusions or really analysing anything - guess it'll start the debate off though. Probably a wise move, after reading the responses to some of your earlier pieces!
Still enjoy the perspectives you provide, however, please keep it up. Off to China myself this week so will be interested to see if the debate is still raging over there.
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I'm so glad that I read the news here at the Beeb... this story never made it into the American media (I live in New Orleans), and it's a significant glance into the Chinese psyche and dealing with disappointment (to put it lightly!). I look at the amazing accomplishments of the Chinese diving team - seven out of eight GOLD medals, one SILVER - with awe and admiration... and not having "perfection" does not denegrade the team or the country in any way! I wonder how many Chinese citizens feel similarly?
Now that I've read this, I can only hope for the safety of Chinese track star Liu Xiang, who was expected to repeat his gold medal performance in the 110m hurdles... He is the biggest athletic star (after Yao Ming) in China, and his race was one of the great headlines to the Chinese people. His achilles tendon was extremely sore and he still tried to run the race anyway; after a false start, he left the track - which I thought was the right thing to do. Now I have to wonder with that kind of "disappointment", what will happen to him? I hope and pray he doesn't *disappear*...
Thank you again for such an informative article; I hope the Chinese will learn to cherish their wonderful accomplishments at these games and stop the ridiculous denigration of the athletes who did not meet their expected goals. -b
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Absolutely astonishing! The first 38 posts are being moderated!
Am I in China?
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Now why is my previous post being moderated? It contains no bad language, nothing racist or derogatory. What is going on?
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Why on Gods earth are you surfing internet chatrooms for quotes? You can do this back in England. Or will the Chinese people not speak with you anymore?
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wake up, James Reynolds, why all the comments are still awaiting moderation? It is mush more interesting to read the comments on your blog. We don't deserve such a hard censorship.
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James Reynolds, the comments on other blogs by your colleagues are all ok to read, why not yours? You can't use technical problem as an excuse now.
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Mr. Reynolds,
Some are more sympathetic ?
What do you try to say by the word "some"?
I go to many Chinese Blogs everyday in Hong Kong. On Zhou issue, about 95% of blogger's comment was showing sympathetic. Is 95% a "some" to you ?
The most Chinese people think it is a tragedy in this Olympics is "our Football Team", but disappointed you that, was not because they lost. 90% of the bloggers were criticizing their team "did not have sportmanship at all". Some said, "Please send our football team to Iraq, and let the Iraq team stay in China"
It is a tradegy to have you in your country.
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I cannot understand why it takes so long to censor these comments which are short and not written in Martian language, while Mr Raynold's article almost always goes published at the first time. Is it discrimination to facilitate broadcasting distortion?
BBC always criticises China for blocking some foreign internet media, may the Chinese government explain that 'those websites are awaiting moderation'.
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Hi, James. Compare with the others you wrote before, I think this is a good one in general. I t reminds me that you are a journalist from BBC, because it seems the traditional BBC journalism rules, balance etc, are coming back in your writing.
At least I am not unhappy with your first two quotes as long as the other two following behind.
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i have to say that it's a tradegy to u who write this report as a BBC reporter.
luxin already showed to the world what is the best dive with his 5 perfect diving!he is our hero as all other athletes!
china is not a country which only beckham is the national hero,but we love all our athletes in this olympics,coz they all worked so hard for this game and they all showed to us what does the olympic's spirit truly mean.they are all our heroes and we love them all!
p.s u know in chinese chat room we most use our internet language form, i'm not sure how can u totally understand them:) and translate them into english?! wow,well done!
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our chinese will only show our respect to people with good spirit,with kind heart, no matter one's win or lose, powerful or not,rich or not.
the same as to media groups and countries. we won't follow usa only because it's rich and could be relyed on:),get what i mean?
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a national tragedy?? how it comes?
Being a ordinary Chinese girl, I'm happy for Matthew, Phelps, Robles...
Zhou's silver medal is not a tragedy but a comedy, right? Although compare to the gold medal, silver one seems a loser, but silver medal is also a medal:P I neither feel disappointed nor sympathetic. I feel happy for Zhou's silver medal. Yep, Matthew did perfect, but Zhou was also good:) There is no tragedy.
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The next day after the diving event, did I not hear that the Chinese leaders said it didn't matter if China did not get 50 golds? 50 golds is not a big deal. It just didn't matter. Why did you say it was a national tragedy? Besides, the OG had not finished then. Ask yourself what happened in the UK when David Beckham got kicked out after he had kicked Argentina's Simeone in the World Cup 1998. Did I not hear death threats to David then?
You must have had a tiring and sleepless night to manage to dig out 2 pieces on the chat room that fit quite well into your perception!!! I feel so sorry for you.
As for the commentator's words, I have not had the benefit to watch it myself. But I would certainly try to find out if that was what was said because you are notorious of your ability to twist facts around. Even if that was said, the tone and the phrase might not carry the same meaning as portraited by you. My experience is that Chinese commentators don't talk like that. After all, you don't understand Chinese language. May I know how you got those words translated?
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National Tragedy?
I clearly heard both Chinese commentators during the match called it 'A Beauty of Incompletion'.
You select two posts from 5% lunatics and two from 95% normal people, then you tell everyone you're neutral? Not to mention a lot more people in quiet tend to have moderates opinions.
Even though the Beebs have been so creative towards Chinese topics, Mr James Reynolds still has his way to become the drama king!
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Yes, I agree some chinese are a bit mean to the athletes who had failed to win. But certainly they can not represent the whole nation. Most chinese people are generous, and have more patience.
Anyway, good point but a little partial.
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Chinese tradition seldom praise among their owns with words.Except in socializing. Criticisims often mean encouragement.
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James, did you spend all your time partying with the British Olympic team that this is all you came up with? I don't understand why this story is blog worthy. I was in Beijing for the olympic games and China lost a lot of competitions ( hence they did not have all the gold medals). I saw the diving competition on TV and the gold medalist won it fair and square. Sounds like your deadline was looming and all you could think of was to switch on the TV and put the first thing you saw into the blog. The comments from the so called on-line forum was probably a two minute job.
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Win and, loss, surely are two sides of the match. But for us, audiences and attendees, we shall prepare to accept them calmly, although applause to the gold holders...
Never do I think the silver holders, or others who have not got golds are real losers. They only loss this game, one of numerous in their lives. They tried their best in the games, and reward our respect. Never the less, without them, the competitors, how can we have this game?
And also 'national tragedy' is more exaggeration than the game itself. Surely we cheer on our athletes but we also applauded the USA basketball, Argentine football and enjoy Kobi and Mesi's spendid performance, even Bryant placed his forefinger over his mouth...
Just enjoy the game.
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23 lai_wing_jan wrote:
"They should give credit to Matthew Mitcham, not chastize Zhou Luxin. No matter how good you are, there will always be someone better. And that better someone does not have to be chinese."
24 lukaigirl wrote:
"In school, I was taught Taoism was the "process," the "getting there," not the goal. However, the Chinese have forgotton their heritage of 5,000 years."
Now Mr Reynold, can you see the results of your shocking but distorted title while I assure you that most sensible people don't think in the way you have described, whether they are Chinese or British. Is this the right effect that you need?
Can you be more objective when you report?
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And this one as well
38 nola_cat wrote:
Thank you again for such an informative article; I hope the Chinese will learn to cherish their wonderful accomplishments at these games and stop the ridiculous denigration of the athletes who did not meet their expected goals.
Maybe you deserve this person's praise? Congratulations. Is this also what you want?
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36 smellslikesalmon wrote:
James - I think all the criticism from China every time you mention something they don't like is getting to you!
Anyway he is the reporter, isn't he? By the way, not everything that he wrote has been criticised. Some blogs of his have no comments at all. So you see when he is criticised, there must be a reason. But people can tell their feelings, can't they?
I admit as well that when China is criticised (so often), there must be a reason too, for good or ill. Criticism is welcome but not biased and distorted criticism.
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it is a sad, when losing is a national tragedy.
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