New story for China?
Can two weeks and several bagfuls of gold medals change the way an entire country sees itself?
I've written here before that China often sees itself as a victim. Generations have grown up learning about this country's century of humiliation - how the West and Japan once bit chunks out of China, and how they still want to keep China down.
But does China now have to get a new national story?
The success of the Beijing Olympics may make China reassess its belief that it is a victim. It may also have to re-think its view that the West is determined to stop China from retaking its rightful place as a world power.
Here's why...
• Everyone has come to Beijing. 205 nations were invited to compete at these Games - and 204 showed up (Brunei managed to get its paperwork in a muddle and failed to register its athletes on time). So, there were no boycotts. The most important world leaders even came to the opening ceremony as well (one of the only ones who didn't, Gordon Brown, has now arrived in Beijing for the closing ceremony).
• China is winning more golds than anyone else. Before the Games, China played down its gold medal chances - saying that it was just a minor, second-rank, developing country which would probably be annihilated by the sporting powers of the world (and would be lucky to rub two bronzes together, that kind of thing). But, in the end, it's come out ahead. So, the next time that China plays down its chances, no-one will believe a word.
In the end, it's pretty hard to carry on feeling like a victim when every country on earth comes to your party and proceeds to watch you win.
"Now we can say goodbye to our image as the sick man of Asia," said Shen Ming, a Chinese fan watching the final of the women's beach volleyball told my colleague.
"Hosting the Olympics means that China's power has grown," said Hao Ning at the final of the men's springboard diving (which China won).
On to the next question then. What does China do when it no longer feels picked on by the rest of the world?
Here are the most outlandish fears of the lying-awake-at-night-worrying-about-China club (slightly exaggerated for effect): China will go ahead and conquer the world, raise the red flag over Big Ben and the Eiffel Tower, and make the rest of the world come to Beijing every once in a while to prostrate themselves and generally grovel in a humiliating way.
China says that no-one has to worry about anything like that. People here tell me they just want to be respected and taken seriously as equals - nothing more.
What do a billion people do when their country finds its confidence?
I’m 
© MMIX~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~53~RS~)
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I'll keep the whole thing a lot simpler and say China's overall success in Golds.....still with 3 days of competition is down to an academy approach in raising talent without the need for its young olympians to worry about the day job!
In althetics they did badly but no country is good at everything so thats an observations
and not critique.
China came third in the althens Olympic medal hoard so I am not sure where you got the impression that the country didn't think it would perfrom this time round.
Lets keep sports and politics seprate shall we.
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A vacuous abstract blog.
If you want to write an assessment of China today, poltically, culturally and socially, then maybe that's beyond you, as it is for me.
But talking about a "country finding its confidence" is just abtract nonsense - it means absolutely nothing at all.
I despise assessments like yours. It encourages discussion of abstract, ignorant theorising that has no connection to reality whatsoever.
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Hi James,
It is not just our Chinese Party.
It is the party for the human being.
One world, One dream.
My colleagures certainly enjoy the party in the office. By the way I am in London.
Thanks
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What do a billion people do when their country finds its confidence?
They overthrow their oppressive regime who have shamed them by violating universally recognized fundamental human rights of their fellow citizens.
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For the game itself, it shows the competitives of Chinese people. We are still not the best in a lot of areas. basketball, football, etc. We should work hard on these areas.
Peace!!!
Thanks
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Is the BBC going to continue to block all comment on this ill-judged article? What do we licence payers have to do to get our voices heard?
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Chinese people in general think differently to many other ancient nations.
We blame pre-dominantly ourselves for being weak and invaded. "All great nations are not conquered from outside, until they have defeated themselves from within."
Therefore, the Olympics just re-affirms the most ridculous Chinese myth that the Chinese people are unbeatable when they are strong.
Our greatest strength is relying on ourselves and not blaming others. Our greatest weakness is believing we have some innate god given right to rule the Middle Kingdom.
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I myself definitely feels nothing about any change of view toward china.
there were excitement seeing the opening ceremony, happiness seeing chinese winning medals, confused and disappointed after knowing the government did't approved most of protest applications, and surprised by Bolt and Phelps... The game is over, then the feelings are becoming part of the memory of beijing OS 2008.
chinese citizens will go back to their work and study, facing and solving each and their own problems.
The government, while considering the environmental and human rights issues, should work harder to improve the social conditions and physical conditions for the guanzhou and shanghai events in 2010. they should take the lessons and reflect more.
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underage competitors;is a wee bit of sour grapes creeping in.remember the states used to have Tracey Austin
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No, not yet. China has to see itself as the west sees themselves.
The Chinese people have to start standing tell and stop with that looking up at the westerners.
Chinese people should talk up and be heard, that's how you can have face.
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China will extend its sphere of influence globally through talks, panels, agreements etc. I highly doubt China will see to dominate or convert the West, it is simply not in Chinese culture the desire to convert others.
I mean you don't see the Chinese government wagging their fingers and tongues everyday dishing out foreign government critiques like many Western countries. So you can expect that the Chinese superpower will be wholly different from how the Western superpowers act.
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James, do you read comments left by your audiences?
First of all, China is feeling victim because along with many other Asian/African nations, she had been the victim of Western countries’ aggression. I understand this happened a generation ago but make no mistake about it, this is a fact and please don't play down this fact so that this can never happen again.
Secondly, China is a vast county with a long continuous history. China will one day takes her rightful place as one of the most successful nations in the world. However, as I have commented on this Blog before, China is different from other previous world dominating powers, China is humble, she may be exporting all sorts of manufacture goods, she does not have an aggressive ideology or culture, she has no desire to forcibly export ideology, nor political systems onto others. This shapely contrast to the Western super powers and the old soviet union, where they claim they are the best and their system and ideology is the best and force other people to adopt, which they are still doing today! I know people will bring up Tibet/Taiwan etc, save your strength, these are legitimately part of China, I'm talking about bulling other counties, you'll never see China setting up a colony thousands of miles away or military bases all around the world.
Besides, all this talk about China being the next world super power is way too early, China has enough problems internally to deal with which will keep her fully occupied for a long while. China still have hundreds of millions of people to lift out of poverty, China has a large section of rural area needs developing, China has to create millions new jobs each year just to keep up with the economy, China needs all the help in the world to the develop renewable energy and save the environment, China has a huge burden of public health system and pension system to modernise, China has a huge identity problem with its own culture, China has a huge problem with corruption. China is in no way perfect and she has a long way to go.
To my mind, China being a leading developing country should be content with the achievement she has already made already. With the renewed confidence, China will continue to be humble and moderate, continue to represent the legions of developing nations and a new age where the world powers are more balanced and fairly.
People in the UK should understand the world is bigger than the just the UK, Europe, or the USA. There are over 200 nations on this earth and the world would be happy having a strong China around, nations lived long under the shadow of USA and the old soviet union can finally use some more choices and opportunities China brings which would benefit all.
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Well written article. While I admire what China has achieved in hosting the Olympics and raising the living standards of its people (including Tibetans). It needs to change its propaganda (and to educate its citizens) to sound more responsible and accountable. Stop blaming the history, Japan, Taiwan, Tibet or the West. It had suffered defeat in the wars -- which country hasn't? Its government gets a lot of criticism from the Western press -- which government doesn't? If they keep on playing the victim card the rest of the world will just get sick of hearing it.
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Dear Mr. Reynolds:
China does not have a victim mentality. They usually remember their history so that it cannot be repeated. The people of China also remember their history since they believe that in order to go forward, one has to remember their past.
If there is anything that has to change is the mentality of the West. The West has to stop judging people on the exterior and accept them for what they are. The People’s Republic of China has accepted people for what they are on the inside and outside. The people of China have also a sense of decency, morality, and fair play which is nonexistent in the West [including my own country the USA].
The Western World [especially the USA] does not remember its history [except for the minorities] and there is the possibility that the Western World may repeat the errors [decadence, materialism, hatred, and aberrations] that lead to the fall of the Roman Empire in 476 AD.
China will be secure in itself and it will not conquer the world. The Western World should learn from China in how to be decent and gracious in sports as well as life.
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As far as I am concerned, apart from Beijing being built into a more modern city, nothing will change.
(1) Some people/politicians/governments will still try as hard as possible to keep China down.
(2) Most West media(like BBC/James) will still try as hard as possible to destroy China's reputation.
(3) Some people/politicians/governments in the West will still try as hard as possible to divide China - Tibet is just the starting point.
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China is not going to change the way it views itself as a victim as long as Western nations continues to criticise China and tell China what it needs to do with itself (thank you, Gordon Brown). This is evidenced by the strong nationalistic reaction that came from Chinese citizens as a result of the protests along the Olympic Torch relay.
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i think media and jounalists these days, are warmonger, they just write something to stirr the hates and misunderstanding among different people.
so many journalists believe they have the power to change world, change culture, they think they can manipulate other people, really no different from Nazi
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I work in Hong Kong and most Chinese Nationals around me followed the Games knowing full well that they are winning, and expected to keep it going - some were even visibly disappointed with their track and field hope dropping out.
So you can call it a sense of greater pride, and higher expectations for themselves in these games, and the ones to come.
Postulating on the what next, is melodramatic at best, juvenile at worst - stretching emotion too far without political substance.
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Absolutely True
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China find confidence from their economy, science and culture, maybe Olympics, but just little bit.
One day,
If China has the living standard as Denmark, Finland and Sweden.
If China can defend itself without the USA threat.
If Chinese University has the same level as Cam, Ox or Yale, Havard.
Here it is the confidence, not only Olympics.
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I think when the British people blame China and Chinese government, they should remember the history that they invaded China, their colonial history, Iraq, and Afghanistan.
I agree that the Chinese government still has lots of problem of human rights, and protecting environment.
But, does the western media really report China without biasing? Do you most people ever been to China?
No double that, China is making great progress, and most Chinese people feel optimistically about the future of their country.
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Well I got the impression that many western reporters, including you James unfortunately, have very limited and superficial understanding of what China and Chinese people are like.
I think a large part of this is that you and most of your colleagues are writing stories thinking like an outsider, merely observing what is happening, rather than trying to undertand the thought processes and background of what is going on, and apply a "western" logic to it.
China will change, gradually. But I doubt very much that it has anything to do with how many gold medals they've won. They're not shallow you know.
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I suspect little will change at all. Not long after the games are over the smog will return to Beijing and it will be business as usual.
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We (Westerners) can furiously tap at our keyboards with resentment all we want; the Chinese as individuals, and China as a country, will keep plodding on and improving.
A couple of decades on, when they will have surpassed us in other areas (service industries, academic, sports etc.) - we'd still be pushing out constant putdowns and petty remarks, well into our retirements.
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What do a billion ppl do when their country finds its confidence?
- they'll have a better life maybe.
Am i taking any wrong hints here? i feel you are suggesting that the Chinese will then want to take over the world.
No, we don't want to. It's too much trouble trying to be the "world police". Just look at what the States got themselves. (Although i'd say the Americans have indeed done some good things by trying to keep an order in the world)
Chinese are peaceful ppl, as are the other ppl in this world. If you look at the history, China even in its great time never invaded other countries to a large scale (well, in those ancient times, everyone wanted to extend their borders a litte bit, but China never went too far- ancient Mongolians were a foreign tribe to China)
If one think Chinese mindset might have been changed by the Communists... once upon a time Christianity was dominant in many countries incl UK, but how much of that influence is left over now? Christianity has truth in it, but still it gets dump by ppl, due to some nasty behaviors by some of the so called "Christians" (not the real ones), let alone the "bad" Communists as you regard them?
as some others said, we want to be understood and respected. If possible, we want to be invited to some parties and have fun like the Americans or Oz or Brits and all. That's what the young Chinese want.
For the older Chinese, they want to spend the rest of their lives in peace and watch their kids have some fun.
i am a young chinese working in Edinburgh. Ta!
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James asks: What do a billion people do when their country finds its confidence?
Let me guess:
1. "Monkey see, monkey do" theory. China would look around and back into world history to find out what other countries finding themselves in a similar position have done, and how their behaviors have been evaluated (or rather, tolerated) by others. Afterward, it would do the same.
I'm talking about the government here.
Now, allow me to talk about the people.
2. Exodus theory. More of the billion people, who have lost their paranoia, found their confidence, and accumulated moderate wealth, would travel all over the world and visit their "lands of dreams". After having seen the world for themselves, they would decide, employing their own free will, where they would dwell for the rest of their lives.
Is the world ready for millions and millions of newly-enlightened Chinese immigrants?
3. Convergence theory. Opposite to the scenario described in 2, many overseas Chinese would return to their root, bringing back knowledge and variegated foreign cultures they've collected along the way. These returners, prone to innovation, together with those who've never left their nest, therefore possibly more prone to tradition, would build, in continuous strife and reconciliation, a new China that the world has never known, an ancient land discovering the Fountain of Youth.
If this should happen, I only hope that China would not close its door again in prosperity, which they've done so well before.
4. Status-quo theory. 2008 Olympics will not change China in essence. China will continue its current development, and hopefully, spread, with devoted effort, its "trickle-down" effect all over its territory. With time, a lot of time, China would ultimately establish a predominant middle-class among its population, which would then decide on the more remote future for China, and possibly for the world as well.
Hmmm, I think I'll take a cocktail of the above-mentioned.
What do you think?
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"We just want to be respected and taken seriously as equals - nothing more."
I feel exactly the same way.
Talking about 'century of humiliation' and China's confidence, as said by British historian Jonathan Spencer, this history of failure "has been used to define the beginning of modern China". If one studies one's own modern history based on a period of humiliation and failure, it would be hard to break away from it.
In many ways, successful Olympics Games can help China reopen a new page and make more Chinese choose not to keep the old pain alive. That's probably why the whole country tried so hard to make this show a great one.
I don't think China regaining confidence means that it will take revenge for the past nor it is to become a superpower that bullies others. Instead, we just want to stand up again and to be treated as equals.
I hope the rest of the world can recognize that China is on its way to improve itself. It's also really important to know that self-improvement takes time. I'm confident that the human rights and democracy situation will be better. We only had 30 years to develop after all. A bit of encouragement from you will probably do much more good than constantly fixating on the negtive side.
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US has been the power of the world for almost a century, and it imagines that other countries will surpass it or want to destory it. how could a just-not-that-poor China will see itself as a safe country and the really ture friends of the west? how could almost two weeks changes almost two centuries? Dear James, maybe u felt a lot of hatred towards u, but there is no chance u will be the best friends of those who dislike u over one night.
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Here's something that might interest you
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7NfO_7hj5s
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"They overthrow their oppressive regime who have shamed them by violating universally recognized fundamental human rights of their fellow citizens."
Well, by definition, they are not universally recognized, otherwise they would be the same in china. What you actually mean is "western human rights".
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Just a note to jasonvivi. Yes, some of us have been to China. Do you think that just because we're critical of China we couldn't possibly have been there?
I'm living here right now. My wife is Chinese and I also speak fluent Mandarin. I love it here but as you must agree there are a few things that need to be worked on. However, that goes for back home in Australia as well. No one is perfect.
We all have our faults but it's the media's job to keep us all in check. Without it we would all suffer from an the abuses of men in power.
You need to keep in mind that the Western media doesn't only critisise China. The media back home in Australia is just as critical of the faults of our own people and government.
You yourself only seem to see the negative things said in the media and not the positive things reported on. There are plenty of positive things too. That makes you biased. Funny that.
I know that it's biased to automatically say that the Western media is biased against China just because it's reporting on something that isn't positive. It's their job to be critical. In fact, it's one of the first things we're taught at school, be critical of what you see in the media and don't just take what you see and hear for granted.
There's many forms of bias but I thank God for a free press (like our two Japanese friends who were beaten by Chinese police for reporting on a protest recently) who is willing and able to tell those silly men in the capital what they're doing wrong from time to time.
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what a boringgggg blog, keep politics away from sports and write a good blog.
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What do you think of history? If history is not that important, ask people living in Israel or Germany and see how many of them agree.
I guess you're not a Jewish victim of WWII massacre.
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Wether the world likes it or not in the US and UK people love to criticize our governments and leaders. My wife is from china and was shocked that you could buy one of those peel away day calendars that made fun of things G. Bush said. Or put a bumper sticker on your car saying "Impeach Bush".
When people in the west criticize your leader or government is not an attempt to show how much better the US or UK is to China. Alto of americans don't like our leaders either.
Good luck meet an american with out an opinio. Just dont take it personally.
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China was a victim and I hope every future generation will remember that. However, remembering the past shouldn't prevent us from looking into the future.
China is still a developing country and, as you have often critisized, still has so many prolems yet to be solved. So China needs more confidence and the Olympic games have done a good job.
I hope the west will see us as a friend but not a threat. Chinese are not aggressive and even those so-called anti-west people are actually defending China rather than attacking the west.
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China's actions aren't those befitting a confident, mature nation ready to take its place amongst the superpowers of the century ahead, but rather those of a state terrified of its own people; still trying to control the truth and mould it to its own agenda.
China has faked the TV fireworks, switched little girls in a ridiculous display of frankly unnecessary vanity, tried to disguise Han children as coming from different ethnicities in an appallingly cynical ploy to paper over the cracks in nationwide unity.
Agencies encompassing the entire apparatus of the state have conspired to pass underage athletes as 16, in the face of their own internal records. The most prominent of the athletes in question was not even eligible to compete in many of her previous competitions if she is currently 16. In a further slap in the face to honesty, they have tried to hide their tracks by getting sysadmins to (incompetently) delete official records from their webservers, search engine databases, and caches. Note that for this blatant disregard
for the rules to occur does not require just a few bad apples, but a systemic culture of corruption and cover-ups.
Worst of all is the treatment of those with legitimate grievances. Not a single application for the Orwellian protest parks approved; those who tried (even the elderly and infirm) imprisoned without trial and without right of appeal. Thuggish armed police have beaten up journalists; shady undercover agents have prevented any investigation by Western agents of the many legitimate complaints. Throughout, Chinese journalists are gagged by the nefarious 21-point list, and are afraid of reprisals if they even admit its existence despite all the evidence of it.
Throughout this Wang Wei has provided rare moments of levity - his deadpan denials are on a par with the former Iraqi Information Minister. Satire is unnecessary for he lampoons himself with every word. Nevertheless, the IOC is complicit in this despicable deterioration of affairs in Beijing and China more generally, and have tarnished a reputation. Giselle Davies has failed the ideals of sport by her constant appeasement and embarassed diversionary tactics. (Incidentally, the BBC too have been remarkably quiet in these press conferences!)
China has made remarkable progress economically, but with leaders afraid of progress and attempting to control rather than converse with their people, it paints a sinister and harrowing picture of how bad life in China really is. Given the audacity and shamelessness with which China is flouting its 2001 IOC promises, imagine how much worse it will be when the glare of publicity leaves and the unscrupulous forces of the state are once again given completely free rein.
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James,
The only comparable Games to the Beijing Olympics is the 1936 Berlin Games.
The history always repeats itself:
Is the National Socialist Workers Party any different from the Chinese Communist Party?
Is the People's Liberation Army not a reincarnation of the Schutzstaffel?
Anyone believes the Ministry of State Security lesser of a menace than the Gestapo?
Even the two opening ceremonies were so similar. Or Beijing copied the show from Berlin.
Only thing lacked in my country today is a Fuhrer figure: none of leaders has enough manhood left, not the dwarf Deng before, 3-representative Jiang yesterday, or the harmony Hu..
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Yes, James. China will be stronger and fairer as it has always been. I may very much hope Olympic games could be a sign for China being a even greater nation in the coming decades.
Chinese nation and its people won't be scared of being critisized. Even if we prefer to do things in our own way we still very much like to be committed to some reasonable international norms, rules and regulations. Chinese nation will not reject valuable ideologies from the outside world based on not throwing its own traditional heritage.
This nation is ready to face a number of huge challenges. I believe that chinese government will continue to prove that it has the enough confidence and capability to bring all our people together for building a even stronger nation. It is tough but we will get there.
Everthing could happen tomorrow. Let the fact speak for itself.
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Can't we just enjoy the great spirit, physical strength, and breathtaking virtuosity displayed by the Olimpians without trying to impose certain versions of ideoligies onto each other?
Perhaps impossible.
The way you think about things especially concerning different societies inevitably reveals what you are, that is, your own nationality, education, personality, etc.
In my view, ordinary people can get away with expressing (overt) 'nationalistic ' sentiment. After all, how many of us can become such 'panhuman' thinkers as anthropologists? We tend to love our own country, family and compatriots and root for them with understandable reasons.
This is where the role of journalism becomes important on the following three counts.
1. introduce diversity and richness of human life so as to advance mutual understanding (not to incite antagonism between different countries!)
2. be sensitised to the danger of confusing state dominant ideology or popular assumption with real people in real situations in any single society (so don't take things at face value!)
3. Open the ongoing debate by providing an integrated picture of what a journalist experiences in a given time and space (a good sense of 'empathy' rather than 'sympathy' is crucial!)
I generally like James's blog and certainly BBC journalism is doing much better than their counterparts in China and US. I am sure we could learn more about contemporary China as well as Britain through his more 'prying' eyes and certainly more perspicacious remarks.
A Chinese in UK
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what an odd, slowly moderated article. you ask a question at the end that i'd've thought you'd have answered at the beginning.
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What an ill-judged article yet again from poor James!!
I happened to come across the history of Olympics medal table and here you go since China first involved in the Games in 1984:
2004 - China (2nd)
- GB (10th)
2000 - China (3rd)
- GB (10th)
1996 - China (4th)
- GB (36th)
1992 - China (4th)
- GB (13th)
1988 - China (11th)
- GB (12th)
1984 - China (4th)
- GB (11th)
Poor James, what makes you think China will see itself differently after this Olympics?
I also realised that there is quite a huge number of British officials (Sebastian Coe, Tessa Jowell, Boris Johnson among others), surely they are in Beijing to learn a few things from the Chinese.
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As to the view that China sees itself as victims, it has a certain validity only as a pervalent national rhtoric.
Certainly the 'real' Chinese people, especially the young generation and the emerging new middle class would tell you a different story in informal, rather than 'public', contexts.
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I agree with an earlier comment
Lets keep sport and politics separate
Been a great olympics from the most impressive Opening cermony I have ever watched ... to some great British performances, and also Phelps / Bolt , and the host nation....
One Dream One World... naive maybe but lets celebrate a great games and hope UK can match or surpass these games in 4 years time...
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Hi James, I generally respect what you write here very much but this time your article is totally rubblish.
First you say: some people predicted China would win a lot of gold medals but China denied. Now China have won a lot of gold medals.
Then you say: Now some people predict China will conquer the world and put China's flags on other countries, but China deny. So..
Based on the olympic results, you are implying China will conquer the world and take revenge. Isn't it totally rubblish?
Other people say you don't understand Chinese so your comments are rubblish. I didn't believe it but it seems that they are right.
Maybe you write this kind of blog so you need to make it controversial. However, there are many other ways to attract readers so you don't have to use this kind of tactics...if you are intelligent enough
Whether a country will invade another country should be analysed by the record/history of this country, the culture of this country, the resources of this country, and how much people respect peace and harmony.
To me UK and US are more likely to invade other countries than China.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
the most basic rule of being a journalist is to report the actual facts without adding personal opinions.
Perhaps China didn't host the Olympic perfectly, but let's see what Londo can do in 2010?
By the way, USA won the most gold medals once when they host the Olympic before.
Why can't China?
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I see this in a negative way. If the Chinese people no longer see themselves as victims and no longer see foreign powers as adversaries, then I think they will become more critical of their government and less likely to rally to it's support in the name of Chinese nationalism and national solidarity.
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Well stated assessment and questions about the future of China in the world. But the one thing that has amazed me throughout the whole Olympics is how nobody in the major media has ever mentioned Qigong - the hidden training technique of the Chinese Olympic athletes. Qi means Energy, and Gong means Cultivating, and it is thousands of years old. This is the one thing they did not want anybody to know about - and it looks like they got away with it. They are winning more Gold Medals than anybody else. Also known as Chi Kung and Chee Gung it is all available on the internet for anybody wanting to find out the real secret of more energy and more life. Qi is what has powered China through its history, and what will to take it into its future.
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Just imagine a 10 year old math prodigy gets admitted to a university. He builds a splendid spaceship with Lego blocks, and brings it to show off at a students’ party at the university. All the students there were busy discussing sex, politics, and the economy, and everybody ignores him. The boy thinks : My grades are as good as theirs, if not better, my lego masterpiece is spectacular, why do they not take me seriously ? The boy is lost. That*s what the Chinese situation is.
Some parts of the intellect cannot be taught or learnt, they are acquired through immersion, incubation, evolution. And the fact that you wear an expensive Italian suit does not make you a cultured person.
The Beijing Olympics does little to help the rest of the world understand China, or change their opinion of China. It is just a placebo China uses to boost it*s own self-confidence.
What does China do when it finds it*s confidence? A recent world-wide poll says that most people of the West do not think China is a threat, on the contrary, most people of China*s neighbouring countries think it*s a threat. That may be because throughout it*s long history, China had annexed it*s neighbours by force, and it*s current neighbours know that too well.
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Hey James. I thought it was a good blog, presenting two sides of a discussion that is ongoing in an enjoyable and non partisan manner. The success of Londons games will not rest on the nature of their human rights record. It will lie in the honesty and pride that they display in hosting the games and the measures they take to see that as many participants and spectators enjoy their Olympic experience. Beijing has done a fabulous job. And worked hard to deliver it. Seen the super slo mo shots in every sport? Fabulous.
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I wasn't aware China saw itself as a victim. I cant see how. I am not even too sure why this is the case. All the world has gone to Beijing this month, but its for a show, for what China wants us to see. The same with any Olympics, its a commercialised showcase. Like a wedding and putting your best foot forward to look good in front of the in laws. I expect London will do the same, if of course the govt can really galvanize itself and we believe the propaganda enough to dig deeper into our pockets for the event, but it wont be as big or look as showy as the huge nationalist event in China, we just don't have the will for it or the national unity anymore.
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Lev is right, this is nonsense and just another piece of propaganda on behalf of a country which is all style and no substance.
I am reading a book about a Chinese girl in the Muslim parts of China who is too poor to go to school (The Diary of Ma Yan). The Chinese government razed residential districts of Beijing to build the stadiums, and after Western criticism of environmental standards shut off power plants supplying not the Olympics but ordinary citizens in order to create a Potemkin village. The West is just as guilty of this as China is, China is trying to suck up to the West while its people go hungry outside the pampered, lavish citadels of Beijing and Shanghai. It will change nothing unless the West actively steps up the pressure on China to change - and since the current set-up suits the West as much as it does the Chinese elite, nothing will.
The games themselves were brilliant but they usually are. Bolt would have run his best had they been held in Jamaica, Phelps swam as if they were in New York, and Adlington will do just as well in London in four years. But the Chinese have cheated (for example the judges in Aaron Cooke's taekwondo match, and a malfunctioning pistol in the women's shooting...no surprise that the person who benefitted was Chinese...and now their gymnasts are under-age. What a surprise.
Come out from behind the pre-moderation cloak and own up - these games were good, they always are, but the actual Chinese people cannot be called the winners by any stretch of the imagination.
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Why the people of one nation is so concerned of the other nation while it's country is slipping...?
The price of daily food is climbing at a speed never seen before;
The housing marketing is shrinking. (a good sign for international investors from other nations, but not the natives)
We are facing the fuel poverty this winter.
The so-called democratic government has been lost crucial documents. Will the 84,000 criminals free into the streets?
The streets have never been more dangerous than now.
How can we host the 2012 Games without further funding from anyone if the situation doesn't improve?
...
Don't we have more important things to consider rather than pointing at a nation provides us no more than cheap products and international students who pay 10 times tuition fee more than our young people?
Britain is not longer, and will never again, be the conqueror of the world. Would the British Museum still exist if one day we had to return the treasures we captured from the rest of the world throughout last century (excluding what we have purchased)?
The reason is unspeakable, from the government to the press. FEAR.
Everyone has the right to express himself, and everyone has the right not to listen. This applies to the protesters and politicians. How much of our time is wasted? The smartest are always the businessmen. Unfortunately, we have less this kind now, is it the reason why this nations is declining? Is it the reason why China is growing? They just can't be bothered to argue with the west. Making their lives (at least the majority) better everyday is practical. The people are happy, no matter it is communism, democratic, or just another silly political name.
So just enjoy the Games and the rest when we still can.
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levdavidovich, well said!
Yet another vacuously abstract blog indeed! How disappointing.
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Mr. Reynolds tries so hard to sound insightful, and Oh! How in-depth?!
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I don't know if China sees itself differently. I can't speak for one billion Chinese people; I can only speak for one Chinese-American born and bred in the USA, that the Olympics doesn't change how I see China, but it does make me more aware of how others see China. It confirms what I've always known: that China is a great country, and despite that we still have a long ways to go. I hope that one billion Chinese people take this to mean that we have a responsibility to fellow citizens of our nation and of the world to improve and progress.
One thing that James mentioned is that China downplayed its medalling potential. I think there is a culture lapse here. Yes, it is false modesty, but it's not insincere. In Chinese culture, modesty and understatement is very important. Even if everyone knows you're going to perform well, you still don't go around boasting it. I know that in some cultures, this kind of behavior can be deemed annoying and subversively arrogant (schoolgirls, in my experience, are particularly sensitive to 'false modesty'), but in China it's called manners. Also, I feel that China, amidst all its controversies, is keen to be perceived as friendly and not a threat (I'm sure everyone is familiar with the comparisons to Berlin 1936). Therefore (regardless of reality) it is quick to publicize its openness and warmth (ie. protest parks, etc) and reluctant to acknowledge anything hinting at domination (ie. physical prowess and achievement in sports). I don't know how effective this policy has been however.
At any rate, congratulations to the organizers, volunteers, and athletes for a successful, delightful (although controversial) Olympics. I hope that China will turn the awareness of publicity it has gained from these games into awareness of social responsibility.
Also, for those of you who think that the CCP should just be overthrown: I think that China has had enough revolutions, violence, overthrowings, civil wars, and radical change in the last century. Surely, we've learned our lesson by now. South Korea, for example, has more or less reformed from a military dictatorship into a democracy with a free press and a formidable economy. Reform is not an overnight process, nor is it easy, nor does it avoid strife and resistance, especially for a nation the size of China, but I believe that in the end, it will be much better for the safety, security, and stability of the nation and its people.
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I hope the newly-gained (or regained) Chinese confidence will mean there'll be less nationalistic posts on the blogs like this one. People who are confident don't need to go about sticking their history/culture/whatever into other people's faces. I also hope they will be acquainted with the uglier parts of their history so that they may have a full picture of what China has been, because from many posts here I can see some Chinese live in a bubble, believing that China has always been a benevolent and humble giant. Only if you know all the wrongs and rights of your own history you can have a full picture. Most Chinese don't have it as they are taught what the state wants and they shy away from any knowledge that can demolish their carefully-preserved mental balance. High hopes, but I remain hopeful.
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An intersting comment but i really feel that the international media really missed their chance to get to know the real China. They have spent the majority of their time reporting the Olympics which of course they should be focusing on. But none or very few have actually bothered to travel outside of Beijing to see the country let alone report on it. Nobody has been to the earthquake area to see what is happening yet it was arguably the largest story of the year prior ot the olympics. Nobody is asking what is or more importantly isn't being done in that area. Thousands of people are still living in temporarry make shift tents. Xinjiang was also a major issue prior to and during the games but other than a day's reprting after the killings no in depth reporting was done. China is a vast country with a hugely diverse ethinc and economic make up. People are coming together during the olympics but people in Beijing are also unhappy but none of this has really been reported. Nothing has been made of the inflation and the issues it has caused for a large proprortion of the population. Nobody has reported on the fact that all the street vendors have been cleared off the streets. Nobody has tried to speak to migrant workers who have been forced to leave the city.Yes of course the games have gone well did we really think the government would settle for anything else. Has the western media toed the government line?
A British national in China.
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No matter what China has achieved or how peaceful China is, the West will never abandon their hostility against non-Christian China.
For example, I find this (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/picture_gallery/08/asia_pac_xinjiang_life/html/1.stm) BBC news insensitive and racially offensive to ethnic Han Chinese.
Quote: “here police are randomly imposing fines on melon sellers in Kashgar. Two van-loads of police arrived to confiscate one farmer’s cart and all his produce. “
It is not randomly imposing fines. Chinese law must be respected in China. The same thing happens all over China. I see many times in Beijing and Shanghai with Han Chinese.
Uyghur Chinese are a merge of a number of ethnic groups. The dominant group is Huihu originated from the Republic of Mongolia. They are all Buddhists for thousands of years. They are also nomadic.
BBC got the picture completely reversed. It is Islam taking over Buddhism culture. It is not the other way around.
Besides, I find this a show case of BBC bias against Han Chinese. Imagine 20 British white-cops are killed by Muslim minorities in the UK: Will BBC spin out such an article criticizing that the British Christians are pushing too much into British Muslims?
Is this BBC news meant to hurt the feelings of Han Chinese?
So many Chinese are furious at the Western media. The reason is quite obvious.
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This Olympic is well organized with state-of-the -art venues. China had done a great job in hosting the event. They also show that they have outstanding athletes by winning the most gold. All these does command some respect. China often see itself as a victim is because, for some reason, the people were always reminded of some regrettable part of history and unable to move on, they're still living in the past. Maybe, the government should start educating the people properly instead of feeding them propaganda and infuse hatred.
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A country with almost 20% of the world's population wins a lot of gold medals. More news at 11.
Seriously though, as far as China goes nothing has changed, if anything their image has worsened. They had an opportunity to open up and dispel the image of being a heavily censored, corrupt, characterless nation of human rights abuses, and they ended up playing right into that image.
Why did they bother switching the singer? Did they think no one would notice? Why did they go to the trouble of falsifying documents for the gymnasts? Was beating the USA so important? They didn't even need those gold medals.
A memorable games in terms of performances, not so much in terms of the hosts.
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"China came third in the althens Olympic medal hoard so I am not sure where you got the impression that the country didn't think it would perfrom this time round."
Actually in Athens 2004 China came second in the medal table according to official IOC ranking which gives gold priorities. Silver and bronze are used as tie breakers. Losing the championship but comming 2nd and 3rd place is no substitute for being champion and winning gold. It is also why China now top the table ahead of USA. Ask Michael Phelps. Check the official IOC website, not the ones bandied around in US news station that elavate 2nd and 3rd place to equal those of 1st place to give the impression USA is leading when it is not.
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I must admit I have my reservations about China as a state - human rights, Tibet, one party state, underage athletes, blah blah blah.
But I don't think anyone can deny Beijing has risen to the challenge of providing excellent world class facilities for these olympics.
People say that the money could have been spent on the poor - how much per person ? And what difference would it make in the long term ?
I would imagine that most poor Chinese are proud of China's olymic achievement on the world stage, so despite my reservations, I am happy to say "Go Olympics, Go China" - meaning by "Olympics" the competitors and spirit of the games, and "China" the ordinary Chinese people.
I hope hosting this event will have the knock on effect of increasing China's exposure to other nations and cultures and vice versa, and leading to greater transparancy of government in the PRC.
And no, I am not a Chinese student being paid by the government to blog, but a white British armchair spectator of the olympics !
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Chinese people generally blame their own governments for their misfortunes. In all my visits to China I have never heard anyone whine about their history. Now, some older Chinese harbor anger towards the Japanese. But they usually reserve their scorn for their own government.
China does not see itself as a "victim" to the same degree as Ireland or Israel. Neither do they have a 'chip on their shoulder' like Australia.
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I think the problem with the West is that we seem to expect China to be exactly like the west. The same way of living, the same human rights issues, the same press freedoms.
It is still a communist state adapting to capitalist ways. Before that it was virtually under a monarchy (it was actually democratic for a very small time under Dr Sun Yat Sen- I bet this will be removed if the bbc was a chinese website!) when the various emperors ruled.
It may never become like the West, but it will change. Its economy may have changed rapidly, but the politics of China are going to take a lot longer. Remember, it took a long time for the idea democracy to develop in England, so stop expecting things to be run the same way in China as they are here!
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Winning the most gold doesn't make you look top. I support and respect the Chinese people having this olympic games but the communist regime is still the very authoritive. People really don't have to much to say. only few rich and the communist officials have certain freedom because of their influences. I heard the chinese official send two elderly womens to re-education camps for their proposed protest request. it is clearly that communist regime can have no sympathy to even thier own senior citizen just for raising their concern. long way to go... communist to democratic may change chinese society thats period.
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Please do not misinterpret; China is very proud of itself. The seemingly exaggerated modesty is simply Chinese culture. By asking if China has self-confidence is actually a bit comical.
China has long ago started striding away from the "sick man of asia". However, perhaps due to media blocking in China, Chinese are extremely self-conscious. While China does contain elements of the "victim" mentality, this is actually mislabeled and better explains Japan's attitudes towards external pressures. Instead, China uses its history as a motivation. It is modernizing from its pre-20th century image with a vengeance against its disgraces of the past. The usage of history to justify certain actions is just as politically motivated as it is domestically molded into the Chinese population.
This is not to entirely discredit the existence of the victim mentality, because it does exist. Some scars are too deep to heal. In history, China had always been central in the world economy and enormously affluent. It was only within the last quarter of a millenia that this changed. Such a fall from grace is not easily forgotten. The West also tends to forget their actions that have so heavily shaped the world. Perhaps it is in Western culture to forgive and forget, but it is foolhardy to assume everyone else is likewise.
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It's just China (a country, nation, government or era) who's finding her confidence, but not A BILLION people who found their confidence.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
James,
This posting of yours makes ZERO sense - total garbage.
Please read comment #2 and comment #17, and you know what I mean.
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Hi, James,
I like to read your blogs on China, which are the best among what I've come across over the years. I am a Chinese working in the academia in America. Perhaps due to the nature of my job, I travel a lot, mostly to Europe. I can see how you, as an European, look at China with wonderment and frustration, just like most of my European friends. I respect your candid, straightforward attitude in expressing your opinions and your genuine feelings towards the Chinese people.
China is a country with quite distinctive culture and long history. I think the games are great for the Chinese people as it invites people all over the world to take a second look at China and its culture to understand this seemingly hard-to-understand emerging power on the planet. On the other hand, it might also give the government more confidence in lessening its control, to change its propaganda and to educate its citizens in world affairs. In China, government's tight control is not just political, it is also cultural. You can see this by taking a brief look at the Chinese history.
Finally, best regards! Hope to see more of your great reports.
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I'm not convinced that China will change it's viewpoints all that much. The Chinese have always been a proud and yet humble race. I think what may have changed are the Chinese viewpoints that the west are their allies. Instead, all the negative and somewhat condescending (and partially ignorant) reports that have occurred in the lead up and throughout the Olympics may in fact cause an even more nationalistic mindset with the general population of China.
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I used to live there and I found them proud - nobody felt sorry for themselves at all. Only the govt. and people who try to justify China's poor last 100 years without offending the CCP plead victim. Hopefully the rest of the world will have less reason to believe when it does so now.
We've seen China (the govt.) wriggle out of its responsibilities, most notably on environmental issues, on the basis that it' a developing country. But when it suits China to be persceived as one, it's a developed economic powerhouse.
When we (the West) raise CO2 emmissions, for example, they (China's govt.) plead the 'per capita' case. But when there's glory involved, all we hear is 'one China'.
Well I say we take them (those in Beijing) on a per capita basis until they stop the excuses. And per capita, to be comparable to Team GB, they'd need 414 gold medals, and per capita, they have a lower GDP than Albania, the Ukraine and the Dominican Republic.
So what's it to be China? Are you going to live up to the responsiblities of your population size? Or are you going to continue to want to have your cake and eat it?
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"They overthrow their oppressive regime who have shamed them by violating universally recognized fundamental human rights of their fellow citizens."
Fact: more Chinese people are happy with their government than any other people in the world.
The so-called "universally recognized fundamental human rights" is actually "western recognized fundamental human rights", and not universal at all. It has been imposed by Western power on others.
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Well...James Reynolds...
Your writing about China is childish and it is not hard for me to believe this is written by a BBC jounalist, with their famous reputation to damage other country's image. This shows your jealousy about China's success on this Olympics, both for China being the host and leading the gold metal table. How could you be so naive to compare politics with sports? Would you feel better if China predicted she will lead the gold medal table? I hope you can spend your time at Bejing to understand Chinese culture, rather than to write something else to damage China again.
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When I first read the title of your article, I must admit it caught my eye, however having read it I do not agree with anything you have said, there is always going to be a difference in opinion when it comes to anything, as is in this case. Though I am glad that I have the freedom to express my personal views and share them with others. In terms of this article firstly the country's political background and historical movements must be known by the journalist before proclaiming such comments as ‘China often sees itself as a victim’, yes the nation has suffered humiliation due to the West and its close rival Japan and yes it has dubbed itself as the ‘sick man of asia’ but it has and most recently come-up substaintially through its own powers. You seem to forget that the China holds within it centuries upon centuries of rich culture, traditional religion and an ever flourishing civilisation which had been far more developed and profund than the any in the West. It is only because people in the West seem to want to imploy a negative image of this country as it threatens to compete with major powers such as the USA, frankly it just shows the extents to which some Western countries will go to, to cover up its leaders insceurities, the nations deminishing pride or as you like to call it ‘confidence’.
‘The country has found its confidence’- the country has always had its confidence, just because its people have been opressed by the cultural revolution (in the previous century) and they have to an extent been cut off from the rest of the world doesn’t mean that the Chinese do not have pride, patriotism and respect for their nation and what it stands for- otherwise how would it have any confidence at all in holding the Olympics.
You seem to think that the West and China are embracing each other since every country except Brunei has attended the Olympics, this is nonsense. The reason why the Western countries have come is to part-take in a traditional and ultimate sporting event is not to ‘hold-hands’ with other countries, especialy the hosting country China. Atheletes have come to retain their world/olympics records, to prove their potentials and world leaders have come to claim that there country is the best when it comes to sports. This is a competition and there is rivalry in Beijing, not a world conference re-instating that China is well liked and welcomed by every country whose people enter it for the Olympics. How can you make such absurd comments suggesting that because 204 out of the 205 countries who are in Beijing are there to finaly welcome and show the country that it is liked, even if it is liked by many other countries that’s not the reason why they are there. The West especialy the USA and Britain are there to win as many gold medals as possible to top the leadership table, no country in there right mind would turn down attending the Olympics even if it was held in the middle of a desert!
When I first read the title of your article, I must admit it caught my eye, however having read it I do not agree with anything you have said, there is always going to be a difference in opinion when it comes to anything, as is in this case.
You have left me with some thoughts which I must thank you for as I am now more aware of the attitude and opinions of others such as yourself, giving me the opportunity to sometimes take-in other peoples views.
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Thank goodness that another boring Olympic Games has come to a close but I suppose in 2012 we will be subjected to the same boring show by the runny, jumpy throwy, smimmy people. I only pray that we will not have to go through the tedious opening ceremony that the Chinese subjected us to. If the Games are about sport and not politics, then let us concentrate on them instead of a load of jingoistic rubbish that we were subjected to with the start of the 2008 Games
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Good article. China has organised a fantastic Game, so congratulations to them. But, it is a Communist dictatorship and so inevitably will use sporting success to boost its own internal standing, just like the Soviet Union used to do. Or East Germany. Secondly, school books in China are full propaganda of how China was humiliated before the Comminusts came along, though they are strangely silent on the (worse) sufferings during the Mao period. This is why China has a "victim" culture.
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China change?
It's about time that the west changed its attitude to China.
enough said.
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I am sorry to say this, but for everyone of you who think this blog is irrelevant or dismissive doesn't actually know anything about the morden day china and it's people and culture. As a nation of people, the Chinese will see this Olympic and reflect on the success and take that into their stride. Believe me when i say they will feel very proud of the athletes and the nation and feel proud of being Chinese. If this is not confidence then i don't know what is!
Let it be triumph in sporting arena or global economy or world political influence, the Chinese are gaining grounds on every aspect. The people know it and its government knows it.
This Olympic is just another sign for the awaking of a giant, after all Beijing did boast the best opening ceremony the world has ever seen.
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On Monday August 25, China's self congratulatory bout of media flatulence will end and it will get back to the dirty grimy work of making and selling cheap shoes, textiles, mass produced consumer electronics and kitchen appliances. The polution will come back, the same old problems will re-emerge. There will still be 700 million people living on two dollars a day or less, there will still be an aging population, there will still be dwindling agriculture where there are one and a quarter billion mouths to feed, and there will still be fear of a slowdown in the world's economies bringing far less discretionary spending by the consumers China depends on to survive economically.
I think it is interesting that the Tata Nano, the world's cheapest car was created and will be built in India, not China. This is a real indicator of China's lack of technological innovation even at the lowest level.
As for the EU leaders going to Beijing to prostrate themselves and govel in a humiliating way at the Emperor's feet I don't think that is in the cards. A tickt for the performance of THAT task will still be reserved in Washington DC just as it was at the start of 2007 with the three blind mice Sarkozy, Merckel, and Brown pled at the feet of the lame duck President George Bush and just as it will be in 2009 at the feet of next Pesident of the United States whomever he or she may be. With the Russian bear flexing its muscles in the Caucuses and controlling so much of Europe's energy supply, they'd better not waste another moment but should start immediately practicing up on their best groveling techniques.
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What a ridiculous situation. Create a blog at 3pm then at 5pm the moderators go home for the weekend and no-one's comments can be posted. Brilliant!
That's a bit like showing the evening news on TV without any sound or pictures.
As for the question asked at the beginning - China is an old-style totalitarian regime that will eventually collapse. The end may be bloody or it may be relatively peaceful but it will end. I would suggest that then is the time to ask the Chinese people how they feel about themselves and their position in the world, when they are truly able to give their opinions, without fear of being jailed or worse.
China has never known democracy but it will. Until then, we will have to watch a bunch of unreconstructed thieves, bullies and murderers, lining their pockets, while claiming to be the champions of the people.
At least in this country we have the opportunity to sack our politicians every few years, without worrying about the knock at the door from a bunch of secret-policemen.
I just hope that when the Chinese people finally kick their corrupt leaders into the South China Sea that we support them with as much enthusiasm as our companies have shown in signing lucrative contracts with those same leaders.
PS: Let's also hope that none of the myriad of battlefield nuclear weapons stationed across China end up going astray and get sent in our direction!
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James:
I think that China needs to find a new story, like your opening thesis says....
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Only individuals can have "confidence" or "feel picked on"! The writing by James Reynolds here and so many others (in their comments and elsewhere) who ascribe to countries only what individuals can experience or do contributes to the error in thinking demonstrated by the majority of people.
While government officials of countries may act in certain ways that appear to reflect certain emotions, there is no way that a *country* can feel any way at all, nor even act. And just because certain government officials feel or think a certain way, and maybe even also most of those in the general population, it is still incorrect to say that "the country feels/thinks" that way. Such use of language can only lead to a twisting of one's thinking - and there's far too much of that already. This is how nationalism - the ultimate in groupism - is developed and nourished.
Kitty Antonik Wakfer
Casa Grande AZ USA and Harcourt Park ON Canada
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Every time I read stories about the newfound "confidence" of China I can't help but see parallels with Russia.
In the past it was all talk; the Chinese government tried to convince its people and the world of it's ability and power. The problem was, I don't anyone really believed any of this except perhaps superficially. Now, however, I think many Chinese are starting to come to terms with their success and realize that indeed, China is on the course to become a regional power at the very least. As for convincing the West however, I think China will have to work hard to overcome old prejudices, and the Chinese know this; the day China stops feeling the need to impress the world with extravagant buildings and international events will be the day China has truly arrived.
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For China, like so many of the old communist states, winning gold medals at the Olympics is seen as a good way to make it's people feel good and perhaps forget the grinding poverty of their own existence. The vast majority of Chinese have an awful life compared to people in the West, so the government there wants them to concentrate on things other than their income. It's a distraction technique, pure and simple. The Soviet Union used to do it brilliantly, as did East Germany and the other former Iron Curtain countries (to a lesser extent). Let's not be fooled, this is all one massive propoganda event, designed to promote China. The IOC knows this but doesn't care.
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Dear BBC,
Please sort out your blogging system. This is pathetic. It's impossible to have a discussion where the past 80 and more comments are not displayed because they haven't yet been moderated. How useless is that?
I thought the BBC was a world leader in media. Looks like I was very wrong.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Seeing itself as a victim is not necessarily a bad thing for China; because it reminds Chinese citizens of the past, and hence avoid repeating the history.
On the other hand, it's not entirely depended on China either. Do we have proof that the same countries that "bullied" China a century ago won't repeat the same? A hundred years ago, one of the pretexts to the invasion of China by the Eight-Nation Alliance was "in support of the Hundred Days' Reform", a fail reform that was crushed by the conservatives in the imperial court. This is not unllike the constant criticisms from the West (including the same members of the Eight-nation alliance) about China's human rights. How do we know these same countries won't invade China again in the name of "human rights"?
The fact that the biggest protests against the olympic torch occurred in France and UK (2 members of the original eight-nation alliance) certainly does not convince Chinese people to put down their guard.
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How we view ourselves is pretty irrelevant while the British media continue to vilify China's image. Your collective effort is definitely affecting people's opinion of China and the Chinese people. I guess it is seen justified for 'gentlemen' like David Davies to hurl water at a Chinese official at the Olympics!
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Funny story, James. You view this country deeper into soul.
Modern China is still too young, exactly like a teenager. Sensitive, ambitious, dreaming, unconfident, trying to be polite...... You can feel the hot blood everywhere in this country today. China is trying to say hello to everyone,but he suddently found a unwelcome party: every seat is occupied. I don't think China will enjoy waiting in line, no new power will. In the history, Japanese and German decided to take his seat by fists and created 2 world wars. it is more like a funny image, a youngman asked his neighbour: " Hi, friend, may i sit down? ". Note, he is asking the question when he is ALREADY sitting there. What do you think his reaction when others say No?
About the so called human right issue, pls remember, Chinese will never trust foreigners when they try to "HELP", from Soviet Union to U.S.. China are young, but NOT stupid. :-). It is our business ONLY and back off. I think you can feel this general reaction in China.
Please keep your study on China. It is a fantastic country!Enjoy your journey in China.
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I think James might feel unhappy about this game dispite UK team's good performance:
1. Air in Beijing is not as bad as he wished
2. Tibet protests are not as many as he wished
3. China won more gold medals than he wished
4. other issues? underage and fake footprints are not as serious as he wished
Since the game is almost over, it is the time for James to reconsider his job in China and go back home. Good for everybody.
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Dear Yetingsong:
" ... China is different from other previous world dominating powers, China is humble, ... she has no desire to forcibly export ideology, nor political systems onto others ... Tibet/Taiwan etc, save your strength, these are legitimately part of China ...."
China isn't any different from failing to abstain its expression of world power. Greed is a human nature. Because China isn't truly a world power yet, she is still humble (to a degree.) Until she reaches the supremacy in technology, she will want to get even with the West. She wants to come back with vengence. Kung-fu was originally developed for going back to get even with one's enemy. There were no guns in ancient China.
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A nation is made of its citizens, and if people feel proud of themselves and set a target for them to achieve, nation moves towards prosperity. The Chinese Olympics was just a reflection of the achievement the nation got.
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Yes I think Olympics will contribute to confidence. However the Chinese Government shows no signs of gaining confidence in its people. When there is not "great firewall of China" or Golden Shield as they officially call it, then confidence in their own people will be shown. When that happens and The Chinese People experience a free press they might then gain a real confidence in themselves and their country.
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To yetingsong
A correction:
"When" she reaches the supremacy in technology, she will want to get even with the West.
The logic goes like this:
China has signed Taiwan away and if she wants to get married now formally for the first time, she must win the respect of Taiwan. She cannot use force and coerce. Act like a real lady. Propose to Taiwan with all the freedoms Taiwan now enjoys, plus better economic conditions.
Why China had to "sign" away anything? She was keeping contact with the southern mainland Chinese in Taiwan, and Japan thought it wise to get the deal in writing.
lukaiboy
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The Olympics are but a small fillip. They didn't make Greece a 'world power' or Australia or Canada, etc. Much is made of the Olympics in the heat of the moment but their effect is quite ephemeral. Nonetheless, China as waking giant presents intriguing prospects. First of all, they have to get their own house in order and live up to their socialist ideals instead of accelerating further into another capitalist class divided society. The large majority of Chinese are still too poor to afford a ticket to the Olympics but there is a smaller class that is getting fabulously rich off the rapid uneven development. Secondly they could conceivably serve as a counterweight to the world's leading hegemon. What keeps most people "lying- awake-at-night-worrying" is the out-of-control United States. If China can do something about that, we'd all be indebted to them. Go China!
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You think China needs to "find its confidence" Hahaha. That's cute James. Now that Seinfeld's back in comedy the two of you can go on the road together.
Look around you at the "Little Emperors" created by the One Child Policy and the insanely over the top nationalism displayed during the torch relay.
This is an incredibly confident nation which will not tolerate criticism.
On this blog for instance you as a journalist have been compared to Hitler and the Nazis See comment 20.
China is confident or else it would bow to public pressure to allow basic human rights.
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To post 6
"universally recognized fundamental human rights"
Mind you . This no such thing in exsistance.
Sticking your home drawn tag on other people's face? I know you lot are good at it. But it won't work.
If you wanna join a discussion, you need to be reasonable and respect basic facts. Generalisation just makes you look stupid. That's it.
Humanities take on varied forms. The Chinese have chosen their own path, just like you have in your own country. What is applicable to you may not automatically valid for others.
get these basic logics right and come back re-join the discussion. Then you will be respected.
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To yetingsong
I forgot to mention that the proposal must come with the condition that the Mainlanders are on the same par with the Taiwanese, else sour grapes will rain on Taiwan like little bombs. We want stability and peace.
lukai
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being chinese, i think i have the right to answer james' questions.
'Can two weeks and several bagfuls of gold medals change the way an entire country sees itself?', there are changes,but they are minor ones, not as dramatic as the opening ceremony.
'does China now have to get a new national story?' it seems not only we won't get a new one but also we would go on with the old one due to the torch relay disruptions and boycott threats and comparison between beijing 2008 and berlin 1936 and bad air quality exaggerations and so on.
'What does China do when it no longer feels picked on by the rest of the world?'
close anti-cnn.com and carrefour can sell without worrying about boycott.
'What do a billion people do when their country finds its confidence?' live and let live.
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What will witnessing incredibly biased judging in events such as the boxing and taekwondo do for the way the Chinese people see themselves and just as importantly how the rest of the world see them?
Will they think that cheating is acceptable behaviour on the world stage and if so how will they fair as their economy opens up? How will the rest of the world treat them? Will they be received with suspicion or openness?
These Olympics may have set China back badly when it could so easily have been the opposite!
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Chinese already have a pretty high opinion of their country, so in that respect, that won't change.
As for victimization, odds are the Chinese will still play the victim for as long as they reasonably can (or longer--just won't be so effective).
And as China achieves superpower status, the country will receive the criticism over practically everything to which the United States today is subjected.
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Has it ever occured to some of the people here complaining about foreign journalists writing 'critical' reports about China that they are in fact helping Chinese people by holding the Chinese government up to scrutiny? Or should we ignore cases like the plight of two women in their 70s in Beijing who were threatened with detention in a labour camp after they applied to hold a legal protest in a park during the Olympic Games?
And before the conspiracy theorists question this story's veracity, these elderly women have been extensively interviewed by numerous news organizations, including the BBC.
The Chinese media, government- controlled, has of course not reported this shocking case.
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I will say a strong China is created by so-called WEST because of their so-called ideological confrontation,economy sanction, weapon sanction,political isolation and so on so on.
Dont forget Opium War,The Allied Forces of Eight Powers,Korean war and Vietnam war,if China was a super power then, how could you imagine those wars would happen with lost of millions of people,never!!!
Also If you know the Iraq war and Afghan war, you can imagine what's the fate for Chinese if China is still a sick man.
But thanks to God and Chinese people's hard work and wisdom,China is becoming stronger and stronger,this world will become more balanced in terms of economy,politics and military,otherwise,socialist countries have to take up arms in defence of their country,do you agree with me?
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I am distraught, disappointed and even a bit disgusted at the mistake bbc made ...
The pictures of two table tennis players in the front page to this article .... are not Chinese! They are Singaporean table tennis players Li Jiawei and Feng Tian Wu!
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China isn't any different from those nations which have failed to abstain its expression of world power. She invades Tibet, East Turkistan, and is preparing to also invade Taiwan when the right opportunity comes along. Freedom is only true freedom if it does not violate others' freedom, property, safty, dignity, reputation, .... Greed is a human nature when She gets on top, she will want power to dominate. Because China isn't truly a world power yet, she is still humble up to some measures. When she reaches the supremacy in technology, she will want to get even with the West. She will come back with vengence to surpass everyone like in the Olympics. It is a face-saving value. As well as the value of coming back with vengence. In ancient times when there were no guns, kung-fu was developed (often times, one devotes oneself with a life time of practicing kung-fu.) as a way to kill those who brought on insult and injury and death. A son or even a daughter would go on for life to perfecting his or her kung-fu for killing the one(s) who killed a parent or a loved one. Vengence is like a tradition in China. There is no such thing as giving the other cheek to slap as Jesus preached. When you do someone a favor, it will be remember as well.
As far as Taiwan is concerned, the logic goes like this: China has signed Taiwan away in 1895 even though the Manchu Dynasty never established Taiwan as a province formally applying onto them the political system of China Proper. If she wants to formally marry Taiwan, she must earn the respect of Taiwan and the world family. (Remember all races are related by blood.) No military force and no coerce. The living standards and especially the freedoms must be better than and more than what Taiwan already enjoys. At the same time it also applies to the whole of China or else sour grapes are going to rain on Taiwan like little bombs. If she wants to include Tibet and East Turkistan, hopefully the 2 fighting states won't fight as much.
These are my humble individual opinions.
lukai
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Chinese friends please realize an important fact.
The western media works very differently from the Chinese media. The western media criticizes not only china, but also their own countries. They criticize their own governments and they even criticize themselves.
Western countries are used to this type of reporting and do not take offence, however for many Chinese this is new and therefore, to start with, it may sound like James is being rude. Please realize that he is not. He is giving us HIS opinion on a subject. (this opinion may be right or wrong but he has a right to tell us what he thinks). But never does he intend to insult or offend Chinese.
If Chinese where confident in their country and themselves they would not get so offended by such reports. Who cares what one Englishman says about you or your country? Do you see westerners complaining like this on blogs about England or the USA?
You are a strong and beautiful people!
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"the next time that China plays down its chances, no-one will believe a word."
Come on James...I mean you've been in China for a long time you should have know there is nothing wrong by saying it's still a developing country. It might looks/feels morden and rich if you just focus on city like ShangHai, Beijing, Guangzhou.etc...but that's just little drop of the sea, Beijing just take 1.1% of the country's GDP and it still has the far west under development. If you head to Beijing train station you can see thousands of people coming from rural area looking for a better life/job.
China ranks second in Anthens 4 years ago and I don't remember anyone from China says it still a weak country in sports.
So please tell me why you accuse China playing down its words?
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Those who continue to think that China is out to conquer the world, as James' report alluded to, should really take a harder look at history.
The hypocritical West, namely the US, has so successfully through its Hollywoood moves blinded many in the West from seeing the truth, that when it comes to fighting wars against other countries, Washington takes the gold medal hands down.
The demise of America is Washington's own doing. Like the Roman Empire, Imperial America picks fights with too many countries, all too often simply because these countries are not willing to act in accordance with US bidding.
I was actually hoping that the US would go to war with Iran, and thereby hasten its collapse. Not an unrealistic hope, considering how that country is mired in its greatest economic crisis since the Great Depression. Already indebted to countries like China and Japan and faced with a faltering economy where people are losing their homes and more banks expected to fail, that country simply does not know when to quit behaving like a bully.
But all is not lost. The latest war in Georgia could still entice the US to take the road to perfidy. I would also say the same to Britain. I hope both countries would put money where their mouths are. Don't just talk incessantly about democracy and freedom. Give some assistance to the Georgians. Better still, despatch your young men there, and send them to an early grave. I recall how many in the West congratulated former US president Reagan for outspending the Soviets into bankruptcy. I would like to see a repeat of that. I am sure this time round, the Russians, rich from oil, will prove more than a match for any US attempt to outspend them militarily.
For China, the Georgian crisis should give it some respite from criticisms coming from the West. Apart from geopolitical considerations, tensions in Europe should keep leaders the likes of Sakovsky. Merkel, Brown busy, leaving them with no time to flirt with political itinerants like the Dalai Lama.
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Hello there,
No matter how jealous you are, we are the no.1 this time, neither USA nor UK.
This is the best Olympic Games ever.
We don't need to prove anything now.
All of the people in China now do feel that we are the best in the world.
What we were taught when we were still students was not that we used to be victims but the fact of the history.
Everyone should know the history of his own country and what your country did on our land.
So we will still tell our kids what you used to do in our country to remind them how we should do in the future.
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I am surprised the BBC has not reported that Usain Bolt donated US$50,000 to the victims of the Sichuan earthquake.
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I have to say your understanding of China and Chinese is too poor. Indeed there are so many new stories and things happening in China as it does in the world. But it is a shame that you guys never change your mindset. It seems to me that it is not China or Chinese seeking confidence but you guys desparately need confidence and respect. Remember, if a nation or country want to be respected, go demn win it!
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I am sorry to find there still a gap between you and chinese, although you have experiense the Olympic Games. To be a victim is not the choice of the chinese themselves. Everyone has the right to improve themselves. To be modesty or hamble is just a principle in the chinese's mind, which comes from the mind of the Master lived 5000 years ago_KongZi. From then on, the chinese take a harmoneous socirty and relatinship as the target. So I think they are brave to strrugle for hosting the game and do their best in all the globle games. If a boy, who once screwed over by his neighbors, strongened himself and did well on his business in the rest of his life. How will you comment on him? Please be more objective to china and the lavely people.
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also i want to point out is sometime i feel some people in this contury get too much arrogance. i think it would be a development for you to be modest and learn from each other and try to understand there are different ways of living,thinking...plz respect other culture values and society systerms. understanding will be the first step for respect.
i respect our government's leaders,even there are still lots of probs needed to be solved out,at least i know they put everything they have for us and our country's future,they can't spend too much time with their families,they can't even have a real holiday, even in chinese new year while every family is together,they are bringing best wishes and encouragement to people's home in the poor areas.i think this is why sometime we feel a little bit nonsense when westners gave harsh criticises to our government.as they try their best to making big progress.china is a country with 1.3bn ppl and 56 folk nations, and i believe there is no other government could do better than them.
we welcome the honest criticises, but not like those free-tibet protesters who haven't even been to tibet:), nor those falungong supporters who have never been to china to see how much hurt they brought to our ordinary people(ie my grandfather).
at last, thanks for those who have been to our party:), and i wish london every success in olympic 2012!
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I dont see there's anything wrong with people trying to find their own confidence, their pride. Or am I missing the points?
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Celebration of Olympics Bronzes
What happened?
How can we lose gold count to China, a third world country?
Let’s have a national holiday of mourning. No one objects I bet!
Let’s have a national contest of the best excuses of winning so less gold medals.
It has to be the BEST, so it could worth a gold in this category.
What to do?
Borrow more money from China to buy foreign coaches…
No Speedo to Australia and China.
My secret weapon is to import 8 Jamaican runners. Money talks!
Bribe the judges (a little harder as everyone hates us but money talks again).
Change all the rules to our favor: 5 medals for basketball, 1 for table tennis, 0 for diving…
All tiebreakers must go our way as our sponsors own the Olympics.
We will amplify their “shortcomings”:
Copying our advance lip sing technique, working too hard, starting before you can walk…
The Chinese must have put slippery jell on our batons and/or the gym apparatus.
Develop a dope that can take out all dope traces from our body.
“One country, all medals” is our new Olympics slogan.
The more wishfully we think, the closer we succeed.
How to heal now, really?
Write to Dear Abby for starter.
Bronze is the same as gold if not better. If you do not believe me, ask any blind person.
It is harder to get a bronze as we have to LET two others to win.
We’ll train our athletes for the bronze from now on.
We will ask NBC to interview bronze winners only as they are the real winners.
Actually we’ll be happier to be #3 and build a better relationship with other nations. Stop laughing. It is a fact!!!
Phelps, we love you more with 8 bronze medals - it is no easy job to let 2 and ONLY 2 pass you 8 times.
If everything does not work, turn ugly.
Ask McDonald’s and KFC to give away their “food” (better than opium) to China FREE, so their next generation will be so fat that they cannot walk to the subway station.
Send soldiers to grab the medals, esp. gold. Hey, we have the best offense.
Will the world be better if we only fought for gold medals only (bronze medals in our case)?
What an Olympic spirit to celebrate the winning of the bronze!
-- The author is Tony Pow. 8/22/08. Created for fun. No politics. No dumb nationalism. No ego. 90% false, 10% true. 100% fun. Hope no offense to you. Please feel free to distribute/change... ---
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China is a peace-loving country.chinese make progress, and strive upward. Each country has its advantages, but also has its deficiencies, like everyone the same.
why your are Western countries also only see other deficiency, why not think yourselves deficiency.
China is a very good country, love peace, and strive to forge ahead.
I love china !!!!!
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Woh, hold on there. There's a big difference between criticising yourself, and criticising others. Of course, I wish there is independent press in China, and it is perfectly within Western journalists' rights to criticise the Chinese government. But the willingness to criticise oneself does not automatically give moral justification to criticise others.
What might be a comparable scenario here is, for example, the BBC criticising close allies of the UK, or other EU members. And that is something I rarely see on this site. The BBC coverage of the current Russian conflict is especially taking a critical slant against the Russian and South Ossetia's side of the story. Perhaps because Georgia was close to becoming a part of NATO, and that it is an ally of the West, the supposed champions of democracy?
On the other hand, most of the BBC press on China is critical or negative. Again, journalists are well within their rights to be critical, as they are well within their rights to conduct biased reporting, something which many in Western news media seem to practice.
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What do a billion people do when their country finds its confidence?
They can start telling people how to live their live like james did in his blog.
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reply to 97
"Kung-fu was originally developed for going back to get even with one's enemy. There were no guns in ancient China."
Frankly i dont know what China would do once they attain superpower status, but in most kung fu, one fundamental rule is that you never make the first move.
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“So, the next time that China plays down its chances, no-one will believe a word.”
Hmm,…, I wouldn’t say so. Western free media have a demonstrable record-track of lying and distortion, there are still so many people believe them. And China was just to be on cautious side.
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James,
I do feel you're beginning to learn the real history of the Chinese people
- they're struggle, strives and success. But that’s just the beginning James,
you've only just glimpsed the surface of the anger they feel about past invasions.
However, I'm glad you're beginning understand how Chinese feel about Westerners,
even its such a small effort.
I hope you will become the first of many western reporters to report real china,
not smearing china you want people to see for your own benefit.
I do still feel you have a long way to go in recovering from your false reports
of the problems in Tibet as well, Chinese people can see lies miles away - so don't
even bother attempting to report such nonsense. You'll just lose respect in china or
worse be black listed and most likely deported, which I wouldn't disagree with.
You should really study Chinese and western history more thoroughly as well before making
ridiculous comments. False reporting brings instability to any society, the Chinese
want to ensure a repeat of troubles during the 20th century will never occur again.
We are much wiser now and intend never to be invaded again. And don't complain that we feel
angry about this, that’s just arrogance. We have a right to express out anger, and I'm certain you
would if you're country was attacked by eight countries (again - read the history - don't just browse it).
But the Chinese won in the end. You ought to respect how diligent and clever we are at
resisting and ridding invasion.
One of the great virtues I am most proud of is that the Chinese are open to criticism - this
is a character that distinguishes the Chinese from other nationalities - in the aim to
improve and better themselves, this is what Chinese people do between themselves a lot to
improve themselves.
But what I'm disgusted at is the criticism you report is often biased and a way to dominate China.
You don't seem to criticise to help, whats worse is you justify this with no shame at all. That’s a poor
character to have in China. James - you need to be honest with yourself, The Chinese learn fast -
and it doesn't take long before they see that.
You still have the time to start reporting objectively and constructively, but times running
out should you continue to smear. China will not accept this. China has offered a lot to you,
you should be humble and honour this gesture, be appreciative and be grateful. Because what
bad things has china ever done to westerners? Nothing. Think about it James.
I believe you should take a sincere look at your own country that’s falling to pieces. The UK
is now a country of social melt-down (youth crime, social disorder and economic insecurity.)
I believe the downfall of your country is due to the exaggerated artificial importance of your
version of "freedom" This version necessary to get the Votes has corrupted the ideals and
attitudes of the British work-force and society as a whole. The system has brought with it its own downfall.
And its probably the most important problem facing modern Britain in its survival in the global
economy.
The Chinese don't believe in interfering with other nations issues, I believe this is what
the UK must learn. You should learn this so as to focus on your own country's problems, or is
smearing other nations a way to divert from your own problems? It wouldn't surprise me at all James.
The British are consistent at blaming others for their own mistakes. They don't admit their faults -
you're far to arrogant as a nation to see your faults. Thats why progress and improvements
in the UK are slow and often backward.
You should really sort out your own problems first, that’s what china does and that’s what makes china great.
So go right ahead James, smear all you can if that’s your true intentions, but your country will not get better that way.
And China will continue to develop.
I'm Proud of China, and proud to be Chinese
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I think that I agree with the points of James.
It doesn't matter if a country find her confidence, but politically, the other East Asia nations don't like the strength of China today.
In Korea, Japan, or the South East Asia countries, people respect China because of all, because China is still one of the greatest nations of all time, but they don't like her.
Why? Everybody who is not Chinese thinks that China will follow the old way of Westerns: Conquering all the others. For what? Oil, natural resources, land, sea,...
Ask somebody in Asia, but not Chinese, then you could understand this article better.
Thank you.
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James:
I think that China found a new story; following the olympics...
~Dennis Junior~
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