Filming me, filming you
A group of pro-Tibet campaigners held a protest early on Friday morning outside the headquarters of Chinese state TV. I went along to have a look.
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Interesting points to note. The police arrived very quickly but they took their time in getting rid of the protestors. Officers cordoned off the area below the protestors and waited for them to scale to the top of the wall. Once the protestors got to the top, they were detained and their Tibetan flags confiscated. From what I could tell from the street, there were no scuffles between the police and the demonstrators.
There were plenty of people filming what was going on - but the majority were police cameramen and photographers (it appears to be standard police practice in China for the police to get video evidence of both protestors and of the reporters who cover them.) So, as we pointed our camera towards the pro-Tibet demonstrators, a number of police officers stood next to us and pointed their cameras towards us.
At one point, one official-looking man tried to stop us from filming. But, after a few minutes, he gave up. No one else got in our way or stopped us from working. Passers-by heading off to work didn't appear to notice the protest at all. They certainly won't get to read about it in the Chinese state media.
The Sydney Morning Herald has published what it says is a list of 21 edicts from the Communist Party's propaganda unit to the media in China. The edicts tell Chinese reporters what they can and cannot cover during the Olympic Games. The rules, as described in the newspaper, are clear - no coverage of pro-Tibetan protests.
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I think alot of the time the police make these protests alot more interesting for the media to cover.
The very fact there are huge white gloves infront of the camera when they try to film things they 'shouldn't' often appear to make it newsworthy.
Maybe a new technique being adopted by the party?
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Well, somehow ppl know the protests and call them SB (as in bejing slang, hope it does not break the house rule) anyway~
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But if you climb the BBC building to unveil a flag you can expect to be filmed and arrested.
So what point are you making James ?
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What's the source of the list in the Sydney paper? I'm shocked to see a free media would behave like a Chinese newspaper in the old days, stating something without giving the source.
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The Chinese characters on the banner show that the protestors clearly knew that there is much more freedom now in Tibet than there was when the Dalai Lama ruled the region. The "protestors" seemed to be celebrating the improvement. I'm supprised that they were arrested by the police.
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Are you the only journalist that they selected to contact before they staged the protest? You must be very pround of the honor.
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I have a question. No matter there indeedly are or not. How does the western media know if there are coverage in China press about these protests? Being informed that there are thousands of newpapers and hundreds of local TV channels. Does the western media check all of these newspapers and channels 24/7 to make sure that "there are no coverage"?
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Tibetan protests again.
Why does every Tibetan protest, whether by even a single protestor or a group get coverage from the BBC, many times headline coverage. Why has there been no mention on the BBC (as far as I am aware) about the Spanish Olympic basketball team and their racist photo in Spanish newspapers.
This is an Olympic story that deserves a mention on the BBC, but is nowhere to be seen. Seems like the BBC is only interested in putting China down rather than maybe being critical of a friendly European country when it involves racism directed at the Chinese.
And I love the way BBC staff think they are qualified to dissect every thing that happens in China as if they were expert!
BBC double standards at work again.
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These protests are happening for a reason.
The protests are NOT anti-Chinese, they are pro-Tibetan.
We appeal to the international community to lobby for a FREE TIBET
We appeal to the Chinese Government to
Free Tibet Now
Please light a peace Candle for Tibet on Saturday August 23rd at 9pm.
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nuts, i never believe BBC'S reports. There are so many lies from beginning to end.
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James is a "watchdog " that the Chinese now have for free. Other Chinese media won't have the thick skin ,guts and noses for all news. Let him do his job.
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Hi James, as you work for the BBC, you should probably know that commercial news outlets also dictates what can and cannot be covered.
One example out of many is the war between Georgia and Russia. Plenty of Russian as the aggressor and no coverage of Georgia's aggression in the war.
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Case in point about the BBC getting into bed with the Free Tibet activists organisations and its biased reporting.
Yet another story about free Tibetan protests on Aug 15th titled "British protester held in Beijing" and still no mention of the racist Spanish Olympic basketball teams photo.
BBC please stop demonizing China. You need look no further than your own country, the UK, to find many terrible, unjust, corrupt and unfair things happening to your own citizens.
Your anti-terror laws are used in many ways they were never intended for when enacted.
Not to mention the number of surveillance cameras in operation and tapping of communications..... big brother has well and truly arrived in the UK.
And your government wants even more powers to spy on its citizens and to extend detainment times without charge.
Watch out UK citizen, your government will next want to microchip every citizen at birth and add you all onto a national database.
So this blog about policing in China really has no weight when compared to what the British police and government will do to anyone who gets in their way.
There are laws in China and those laws are well known to the activist and so the police only upheld the law, so what's the story BBC? Is it about bad corrupt cops or is it just another demonize China blog by a BBC member of staff.
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James:
I loved the title of the blog first!
There are reasons they are imposing these restrictions on the media....So there will be no bad press...
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I enjoy reading your blogs. They present a fair and objective view of current events in Beijing. It's impressive the communist government allowed this protest for even a short duration. When I lived in China years ago this could never have happened. But I hesitate to wonder why the police documented journalists covering the event. Perhaps this is related to the government's warning to the Chinese media not to publish news of Tibetan protesters. Even though the government has seemingly made small improvements in allowing freedom of expression, it seems they still have a lot of work to do in this direction.
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Dear James Reynolds,
Will you and the other international reporters, public and guests in Beijing be lighting a Candle for Tibet on Saturday the 23rd of August at 9pm?
This is a very peaceful way of bringing attention to the Tibetan Situation without causing offence or doing anything illegal.
There is a web site but it againt house rules for me to print it so I trust that if you are interested you will find it yourself.
James, a change for the better in Tibet will only result from a change of attitude by the Chinese Government.
What we must understand is that such a change would not only have great benefits for Tibetans but would also benefit all people living in China (ethnic Chinese and minority groups). Your blog site has clearly demonstrated that there is much need for change in China.
Clearly therefor promoting a Free Tibet cannot in any way be construed as being anti-Chinese.
Please Light a Candle for Tibet
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Incidentally many protests in the US are regularly filmed by police. In New York it's quite common. Some of these wind up in permanent files kept by the police and/or the FBI. And many protesters during the 2004 Republic National Convention in NYC were harassed and thrwon in jail.
Of course, since the US is the fount of all that is Good and Pure in this universe, the US police are doing this against errant hooligans to protect the world whereas the Chinese Communist Scum are just pure evil. (You should just begin every article with this and not beat around the bush so much).
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Poor Britons, you have been tried so hard to malign all Chinese people all over the world. What do you expect for 2012 in London???Shame on you, Britain.
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These pro-Tibet independence white folks are lucky they can hide behind the Chinese police protection. If the local mobs can get their hands on them, I can't imagine the bloodshed. So don't complain about the security settings. They are for you foreigners' sake.
After the molestation of China by you Western gangs in mid-19 to mid-20th century, no Chinese with a right mind will advocate losing any province. No democracy advocates in China or overseas will do that. Not even your beloved Dalai Lama. It's political suicide.
Tell me, assumming you don't like the Labour Party, are you saying you don't like Britain also? American who hate the GOP don't mean they hate America.
Got it? These pro-Tibet independence imbeciles might as well take their monkey shows to Europe, since they're trying to convince a handful of people in the West anyway.
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Hi James,
Thank you for this report. Whatever your opinion may be, I think we ought to welcome your right to voice your thoughts.
The response of the Chinese authorities to recent protests in Beijing should be predictable. Anyway expecting that China should be embracing whole-sale Western ideals are dreaming.
As a report, James I think also ought to understand the power structure of China's political system in a realistic manner. Even though China's politics may seem "totalitarian" or "authoritarian," the over all structure is actually a very decentralized one.
If you ask anyone on the street, they would tell you that the Central Government in Beijing often have good intentions with good policies in place. However, these good policies frequently get distorted as they reach lower authorities an the grass root levels.
Local government officials such as the local Public Security bureaus often fail to follow central gov't policies because there is a lack of incentive to follow. Strictly implementing central government policies like "unrestricted mobility of foreign reporters" would often result in bad publicity for local authorities.
Moreover, you have to understand the fact that China has just reformed for 30 years, and the traditional mind set of governance is still deeply in the minds of thousands of civil servants. To change that would require time and more openness to the outside world. C'mon, have a little more optimism, and of course, more patience.
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Well done
You got the scene even before the police, didn't you?
I wonder how u managed to do that?
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good to hear you didn't get walloped, james.
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Tibet is and has been a part of China for 700 years. These rent a mob demonstrators know nothing .
Mark
UK
Lived and worked in China for 3 years
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"They certainly won't get to read about it in the Chinese state media. "
Are you sure about that, James? lol
And I can't believe any qualified journalist would link to that Sydney Morning Herald article which gives no source or any sort of context, whatsoever. I mean, anyone could've written that thing. Hell, I could write an article listing the BBC's directives to all its journalists reporting on China, including constantly mentioning "Communist China's dirty past"- at least one of the following topics should be mentioned in any piece of report about China: Mao the dictator, the Great Leap Forward, the Cultural revolution, Tian'anmen Square, pollution, human rights record, repression of people, etc but that wouldn't prove anything(not that it would be that far from the truth. Just look at your own reports for examples).
Maybe you could've included this article below just to, you know, give it a bit of balance, to show both sides of the story.
http://blog.foolsmountain.com/2008/07/31/a-must-read-a-reporters-guide-to-covering-the-olympics/
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The british police do the same thing - filming, pictures but they add harassment. Our government also bans protest. England is not far behind China in terms of treatment of protesters and freedom to protest.
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Glad to see you weren't stopped or dragged away haha...
I'm Chinese and I think sometimes the Western media is really very biased against China. Because of that, the government is especially strict.
But what do you expect? Does it somehow surprise everyone that the protest was ended?
Poke a bear and get mauled, protest in China and they will shut you down...
Compared to 20, 30 years ago, Chinese people really do enjoy a lot more freedom. Like me, right now, watching your video and commenting on your blog.
I respect these protesters, not because of their stance on Tibet, but because the Chinese Government needs this kind of pressure. Without any external provocation there can be no advancement. The government needs to learn to take criticism.
But at the same time, people need to understand that China cannot be expected to comply with Western standards overnight. It needs time to change at it's own pace. Western media needs to stop giving us so much bad press and making us sound like a police state!
Realise that if there is too much pressure, we might see a backwards shift in policy to even harsher censorship. Which is not good for anyone!
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Finally we have it. For long, visitors to this blog have blamed Reynolds for being biased. Well, what about this fellows. It is easy to say that the western media keeps on chanting about wrongs with China, but would you please tell me, how else would Chinese listen. Most Chinese don't even know about problems in Tibet until they go abroad. And then their patriotic brain starts ticking and they start blaming the west for negative coverage. Chinese people may like to remember that its the same regime which led to cultural revolution and the great leap forward.... and is not telling about it anymore. The gov line is .... hey guys, just forget those bad days; here is some wealth for u; just dont fuss about your masters.
Good luck to China
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Look what is happening in Georgia and Russian, Chinese know clearly what will happen if the country is separated into pieces!!!
This is the reason that it is illegal to promote separarist in China. It is basically Chinese law and nothing to do with human rights! I would suggest chinese government should convict this pro-separarists according to Chinese law, not simply deported them.
If there is evidence that foreign journalists broke the law as well, these journalists should be deported as well and should not be allowed to come to China forever.
If you want to live in that country, the basic rule is to respect the local law!!! Wherever you live, this is international standard!
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Hello James,
I kind of support the rule of Chinese media reporting during the Olympic game. This is called control. Believe that you have BBC reporting policy as well? For this 1Mins story you filmed, what is the real story behind it? How many calls you made in order to know exactly at what time and what place there is a protest?
You may think the freedom of reporting will bring people closer. But the reality is that the divide between the west and the east are really huge now. Not sure if you know the reaction from the local Chinese about the Pro-tibet campaigners. But is that what you want?
Thanks
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So much for the "if we give them stuff and trade with them they will change their ways" nonsense that has never worked with any other dictatorship
PS What is the point in publishing whiny race card playing comments?
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
KunSel,
Re your post.
You just dream about it !!
Even though the Govt allow what you called the changes. All the fellow Chinese will never allow it.
Thanks
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Quite an interesting blog. So we know that the protestors were NOT left beaten to the ground, but the police dealt with the situation calmly.
I'm inclined to agree with #29. When I saw one group of protestors they looked pretty smug and satisfied with themselves, saying they expected to be deported and were relaxed about that.
I imagine the only real sanction is that this is the last time the protestors will be allowed to travel to China (including Tibet). They may be happy with that, however if I was in love with a people I would be inclined to help them in other, more practical ways. Being a foreign protestor in their country and then being banned from the country for life seems an odd way of going about things.
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I think this post is quite neutral. Nothing to complain about. Good job James.
TaiyuanRen is the third ID here who tries to mock Chinese and say offensive words intentionally. James' blog is certainly a magnet to anti-chinese campaigners.
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To answer why BBC always being able to catch the protests...
Basically BBC and the protesters need each other, BBC(or James) needs some anti-China news, and the protesters need BBC to become famous. It is a win-win situation for them.
I always think the protests are anti-China protests, not pro-Tibet protests. They have never been to Tibet, they know nothing about Tibet history, they know nothing about Chinese history. They just follow the West media and governments, and this sort of protests are very cool thing to do in the West now.
(I support more freedom to Tibetans and Chinese, but an indepedant Tibet is out of question in a million years)
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so why are they filming the news crews?
are they just thoroughly documenting the event, are they building dossiers of the journalists? what are they going to use the footage for? to build a case? to use in patriotic propaganda films? or is it just an intimidation technique?
frankly, it looks a tad dodgy from over here.
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No matter Chinese citizens or foreigners, in China if you should abide by Chinese laws and regulations. How simple is that?
Our western kids, have no discipline and respect, that's the reason the West is down turn at the moment. We have to blame those willful parents and educational system.
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I am very happy to see there are western media like BBC to help chinese people understand how important the country and people should be united and work hard to build the country stronger and more beautiful. Otherwise, what happened the humiliation that the western enforced to China one century ago will happen again.
I would suggest chinese government should investigate that if some western journalists have been contacted by the so called "pro-tiben" protests before they carried out the illegal activities in China, also to investigate that if these journalists have conducted collaboration for these illegal activities. If the answer is yes, the journalists simply break the chinese law, and by law should be doported.
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I think most people are misunderstanding the slogan Free Tibet. The Dalai Lama and Tibetan people realise that independance is not an option, but the freedom they want is of culture,religion and real autonomy.
1) China should withdraw the troops,
2) let the Dalai Lama return to his people,
3) stop interfering in the buddhist religion and the monastaries.
4) Release all policitial prisoners
5) Put in real investment to help the Tibetans, not just the resettled Han Chinese.
6) Halt the "patriotic re-education" or brainwashing as we like to call it.
7) Release the real Panchan Lama if he is still alive.
This is not an unreasonable request is it?
Then China can continue taking the natural resources away, which is the real reason why they want Tibet so much.
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All the pro Tibet "foreigner" actions in Beijing are totally useless and laughable. My sympathy with Pro Tibet has gone completely. Please STOP!!!
And Go China!
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On all matters, follow the US line.
Is this BBC reporting policy?
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TaiyuanRen,
I don't believe you are Chinese, I had already suspected your true identity when I read the previous blog "Chinese lose... at sabre fencing", that "how dare you ...." you used in your previous comments and the other "how dare you ...." from another reader in "opening ceremony cool - for some" simply did not sound chinese at all. I wonder if you are one of those activists trying to tarnish the image of Chinese people by pretending to be Chinese.
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>> Passers-by heading off to work didn't appear to notice the protest at all.
You even proved this yourself that the majority of people there in Beijing do NOT support this kind of silly and meaningless activities. They are not interested, but you, someone from outside China.
BTW, could you also remind us that which game in Olympics is relevant to pro-Tibetan protests? Mountain climbing? Or maybe 100m sprint? Or judo? Put your imagination here, and make links to these games. At least, it is more relevant.
You and BBC have said many times that China uses Olympics as a propaganda tool for whatever good about China (but you do not agree of course), do not you and BBC also use it as an exercise to do whatever-lame-report?
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"Kunsel wrote:
These protests are happening for a reason.
The protests are NOT anti-Chinese, they are pro-Tibetan.
We appeal to the international community to lobby for a FREE TIBET
We appeal to the Chinese Government to
Free Tibet Now"
Err, when was Tibet ever free? You should direct this question at Dalai Lama because this is something he won't give you an answer. Tibetans today enjoys more rights than Han majority of the population so what you are protesting about make no sense.
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James,
As a common people from china
I know some of what you said is true
I apprreciate your efforts to make china move to a bright side (if it is what you really think of)
I am proud being listed in the hot blog list with so many eyes focused (at least, we don't know whether free press in Mozambique or Gabon)
But can you pls change your blog name to
James Reynolds' Black China
which makes people more understandable and your report unbiased?
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Poor little foreign protestors breaking the law in China and getting arrested. That's what normally happens to law breakers in any country. It's so obvious that the protestors contacted the western news media beforehand, I guess you all must be on a first name basis by name. So much for fair and unbiased reporting.
I guess Xinjiang will be the BBC's next pet activist project. Wait it's already started with articles like "'No questions' Seeking answers in China's violence-hit Xinjiang region".
BBC experts will be out to give us their informed views on the situation in Xinjiang which will just turn into another dump on China opportunity. Using its selective biased reporting about how oppressed the minorities are and how Han Chinese migration is changing the demographics of the region being the only reasons for any troubles in the region. Yeah, yeah, Han Chinese are to blame, typical BBC. So I wonder who is to blame for 9/11? The so called terrorist or US foreign policy?
Let's not forget the treatment of Chinese during the violent, drug dealing, oppressive and racist British occupation of China. To name but one of the occupying foreign powers.
Maybe the BBC and the activist should start campaigning to have the US, Canada, Australia and New Zealand returned back to their native indigenous peoples. I bet the indigenous population weren't happy when foreign invaders came to rape, enslave, pillage and eventually permanently occupy their countries. Yeah, yeah this all happened a long time ago, but it's been over 50 years since Tibet was freed from self Tibetan tyranny and oppression. Yes, not every Tibetan is like the Dalai Lama, can you believe that.
So to the West please stop acting like you have the perfect society and civilisation, far from it. Even in these modern times you still don't. So stop preaching to China with your double standards.
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Its worth pointing out that the Nazi's had a 'model' concentration camp they used to invite the Red Cross to visit. Once the Red Cross said that the Jews were well fed and looked after and they went back to Zurich the entire population were put on the train to Auswitz and gassed.
Frankly the Chinese police showing restraint ONCE in front of western press means nothing.
#49. Britain never occupied China. We leased Hong Kong for a century and a half and maintained trade bases in parts of Canton and Shanghai. What britain did to China was NOTHING compared to what the Chinese did to themselves: the Taping rebellion, the Chinese civil wars and Mao genocidal great leap forward killed damn near 250 million people all together. All self inflicted.
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Such a big news story. Chinese police film protestors scoop.
Have you never been to Britain? This is standard practice and our police service regularly film protestors. Of course, we're talking about China, so it is a big deal.
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Hello James,
First of all, a rose for these protester hanging the banner so bravely, and of course, another rose for your job, James. This is a job so well done. I think your coverage will be a compensation for those killings, undertaken by the Chinese government, in Tibet yet did not come to the media light due strict severe media restrictions imposed by the Chinese government. You were at the site on the right time. I can tell you for sure there will many more incidents like in the future during the game, so be alert!!!!!
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I have read all of James's blogs this past 6 months and most if not all contains anti China and anti Chinese overtones. Putting a spin on sensitive subjects he does not fully understand and creating an atmosphere of fears, repression and inuendos about China.
In 10-15 years time from now James Reynold will NOT be remembered as a friend of Chinese people.
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james....you dotn seem to know much about china. china is complex. what look like a tibettan protest is actually a rally by tibettans who are really happy that they are much freeer than when Dalai lama ruled. These days tibetans eat kung pao chicken. Under Dalailama they could eat only Tso chicken which is bad for both health and national security. These days they get better soy sauce. even the ones with the new orange flavor. So you see tibettans are happy.
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To TrickyQuinsRl No.41:
"The Dalai Lama and Tibetan people realise that independance is not an option, but the freedom they want is of culture,religion and real autonomy."
First, since you admit that independance is not an option, why would you want central government to withdraw the troops? It has been agreed from the very beginning between Dalai and CCP, that central government is responsible for providing military protection of the region. This is a necessity for national security.
Only separatists would want the withdrawal of the troops. The unity of China is written in the Chinese constitution and will be defended by all costs. So was that a reasonable request you are making?
Second, the slogan 'Free Tibet' in this context has one and only one meaning: independence. Any Tibetans who don't break the laws are free people. So how to free them? They are not to be freed. It's not a matter of freedom. It is only about how real the autonomy is, as you guys say it all the time.
Again, indepdent is not an option. If you are not a separatist, try the slogan 'Tibet wants real autonomy' instead. That is legitimate. When using an unlawful slogan like 'Free Tibet', the authorities have all the right to detain you or sentence you for treason, no matter where you hold the protest in China. It is against the Constitution to display any slogan for separatism.
Third, this is not about whether or not the demands are reasonable. This is about by what means you make the demands. There are laws about the procedure and places for people to protest. Why should anyone try to break the law to make the point? Even right reasons can not justify wrong actions, let along the legitimacy of those actions is arguable.
I seriously doubt the intention of those 'free tibet' compaigners. If you guys really put the welfare of Tibetans first, why would you do things that only can only make things worse?? If things get better, you guys will stop receiving money from CIA right?
To resolve conflicts, both sides need to draw back their guns and sit down talking. It's not about how big a noise you can make, or about how big a crowd of no-idea-where-tibet-is-but-let's-free-it wannabes you can rally up.
We may have some requests as well. But give you these two just now: 1)stop receiving money from CIA and other anti-communism or anti-chinese organizations. 2) stop violence against Hans.
Is this unreasonable? Can you do it?
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It's time China learn something from Richard Nixon on how to deal with these pro-Tibet Hippies. I say they should get a real job instead of promoting theocracy and racial separatism. Just because they are Tibetans doesn't mean they get to be an independent country. Isn't that what the KKK is promoting? The whites should have their own government? All of a sudden, free Tibet sounded like white power.
Same with Albanians and Serbs in Kosovo. If the west don't like it, march your troops into China and make free Tibet happen. I believe when Russia attacked Georgia on the same principle of preventing genocide in Ossetia, the BBC and the rest of the western propaganda called them the aggressors, where as NATO was the humanitarians in Kosovo. At least there is no real genocide going on in Tibet. If they think government by reincarnation is better than the communists, which by the way has made the largest economic achievement in the world over the last 30 years, then go ahead. I guess the hippies just care more about freedom than bringing people out of poverty. Dalai Lama is an unthinkable character I have to say. He got an Nobel prize for being reincarnated (not to mention being a slave master when he was in Tibet and what the hippies called the "Happy Days" before the communist "invasion") whereas Deng of China lifted 300 million people out of poverty and go on unnoticed. This is insane!!
You see, no media is fair on reporting, which bring back the old saying: Don't believe everything they tell you and trust no one. 3 men got arrested yesterday under the Terror Act, and all we got is a brief mentioning at the 10 o'clock news. It's time we have an independent new agency and scrap the licence fee, because I don't see my money being spent wisely.
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What's happening in Georgia is quite relevant to the China Tibet scenario. Yet no-ones shouting free S. Ossetia. In fact the US are actually supporting Georgia. Hypocrisy?
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Re comment 32
Dear friend comments like yours do nothing but stir up racial antagonism, they do not encourage peace.
If you really have China's interests at heart then you will think of more than just "racial scuffling" when you hear about the Free Tibet camapign.
We want all of China to be at peace. China is a great country and has much to celebrate. I personally have a great fondness for the Chinese people.
Rather than being afraid of cultural diversity and religious freedom, China should embrace and celebrate such issues. In doing so it's greatness will be magnified beyond conception.
And re comment 47.
You should do some homework ... look up October 7 1950 when the PLA illegally invaded Tibet...
Regards rights, Channel 4 in the UK aired a documentary called Dispatches Undercover in Tibet...I suggest you hve a look at it and then re-think your comments.
Just one purely logical question...
If the Tibetan people are enjoying such freedom then why has the Tibetan population not increased at all in the last number of years?
Seems odd doesn't it.
Throughout the entire world populations are expanding at an alarming rate...but not in Tibet.
If you don't believe me then do your homework.
I hope that you hizento and that you too rrrrzzzz will be lighting a candle for Tibet on Saturday the 23rd of August at 9pm.
In doing so you also will be helping China.
Kindest Regards
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It's just show time, not much difference to streaking...... James just take part in the party, and enjoy. Apart from that, I really can not see the point Jame want to tell us and why he stay in China.
Seriously, what are you doing James? What you expect if someone unveil a banner on Tower Bridge without permission?
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I think I should mention that the BBC has filmed a series called "One Year in Tibet". This was an observational documentary and did not go out of its way to review the history or politics there. They visited monasteries and saw young monks studying for their exams; they also saw how old cultural habits can cause distress - for example the marriage of one woman to more than one husband (in one case it was 3), as well as the arranged marriage of a 17-year old girl who was left crying throughtout the ceremony (which she only heard about not long before). In the West, such a cultural tradition would be categorised as a breach of human rights. Perhaps the separatist protestors would like the Government to put a lot of police effort into banning such practices. But perhaps not.
The series also showed how monks were devoted to architectural drawing, crafts and painting. and yet we're led to believe that they are all in jail being tortured.
And this is the odd thing. Free Tibet? To revert to monastic and aristocratic rule? To allow the breach of human rights for young women to deepen (they are not worse because the Government would not allow it)? Some say free Tibet to allow cultural and religious freedom - not change the Government. So I do wonder whether the human rights activists really do mean reverting to a master/slave way of life, of denying women all rights, of allowing arranged marriages and marriage to multiple husbands. Some of these freedoms exist already, but is REALLY what a human rights activist believes in? Incredible.
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Yeah James how do you like it? How do you like having a camera belonging to DARKEST CHINA GOVERNMENT pointed at you, scrutinising every one of your moves?
You sounded uncomfortable there. But don't worry. The Chinese Government is very impartial when it comes to covering foreigners. Just as impartial as you are when you cover China.
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I have to say I find it quite amusing reading James' blog day by day, some truth, mostly lies. I completed agree with Themercifulone and most people here, but somehow I don't blame James though, I feel what James says and reports are tightly controlled by people from higher level in BBC to defend the western ideology, making sure they stand firmly aside of their boss-USA. Anyone with half a brain knows the deal with reports on China and Russia. Most british I know are highly intelligent and not easily fooled by the media, so my dear Chinese friends, take it easy, don't get too serious with Chinese-basher, "meh, just another SB foreigner".
btw, let the Tibetan say what they have to say, some caucasions want the tibetans to go back to Dalai Lama slavery era, oh well, there's a country called India to fulfil your slavery dreams:)
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If some of you are looking for other blogs to follow, here is a lighthearted one:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/olympics/2008/08/its_just_after_830_in.html
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I think some need to rethink whether Free Tibet automatically means breaking Tibet from China. The CCP and state media have so far portrayed the Free Tibet campaigners and Dalai Lama as separatists.
But is this really the case? I am not saying none of the campaigners are actually separatists, but at least I don't think Dalai Lama himself is a separatist. It just seems strange to me that the phrase 'Free Tibet' is apparently banned in China, as if asking for more freedom to Tibet (or anywhere in China) were a sinister thing to do.
Again, some people here are questioning whether James has the right to write about these protests. A popular argument is that since the UK has taken part in an 'immoral' war in iraq and has a history of colonising parts of China, the UK media isn't qualified to write about bad stories of China.
Personally I don't see why what the UK government has done would have an effect on what the UK media are qualified to write about. Was it James' idea to invade Iraq and China? I don't believe so. James is reporting in China, it's his job to report. It seems wrong to disqualify or invalidate one's report just because of his nationality. But this is exactly what some people are trying to do here.
As I have always said, bad stories get told because they happen. Bad stories also get much more publicity and news attention in every part of the world, you just have to live with it.
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"Only separatists would want the withdrawal of the troops. The unity of China is written in the Chinese constitution and will be defended by all costs. So was that a reasonable request you are making?"
Does your constitution specify where the border is? Historically huge parts of Korea, Siberia, Mongolia, Laos and Northern Vietnam were china. Are they in danger of being 'unified' too.
Equally if the US constitution said Argentina was part of the US would you support a US invasion to 'unify' the US. I doubt it.
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James, why do you stop updating the diagram about beijing air quality?
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Talking about BBC being biased, it's also interesting to see the Chinese's anti-BBC campaign in the UK earlier this year. I just can't imagine how a bunch of British people protesting about China Central Television in Beijing could possibly happen. Perhaps CCTV is so flawless that nobody would actually wanna protest against it.
I personally know some of the Chinese student who took part in these protests. I admire their patriotic intentions but I think they would make the most of their study in the UK if they start appreciating the ironic fact that they have more freedom here than in their motherland.
At the same time I will start looking for a similar discussion board on CCTV website that allows me to post anti-CCTV comments.
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Some blind activists always like to claim that Tibetan culture is at the danger of being wiped out. Then has anyone ever seriously considered about the culture of the Hans?
The influence of American pop-culture has reached almost every corner of the world. Why nobody has ever bothered to utter a word of criticism?
If you go to Australia, you will know that they barely have their own TV shows or films to boast and at the same time, few white Aussies have ever had any contact with the Indigenous.
By the same mentality of those protesters, shall we appeal to Kevin Rudd to withdraw all Australian troops from Northern Territory and prohibit any white Australian from migrating to that land? Isn't English the official language of Australia? Shall we call on all Australians to learn the Indigenous language? Do any of you know the proportion of the Indigenous to the white Australians in the Australian Federal Government?
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So the Chinese don't like it when people disrupt a ceremony they worked for years to put on for everyone. What's the big deal?
And since when has it become the BBC's job to report on every punk who breaks the law and the police who enforce the law?
Boring.
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#50, Peter_Sym
A bit of history for you. Britain occupied Hong Kong in 1841 after the start of the Opium war, and Hong Kong island was ceded to Britain under the Treaty of Nanking after China had lost the war to Britain in 1842. The second Opium war broke out in 1860. British and French troops entered the Forbidden City in Peking, China was forced to sign the Treaty of Peking. Kowloon was originally leased in February 1860 but Kowloon peninsula south of present day Boundary Street together with Hong Kong island were ceded to Britain in October 1860. You really need to study a bit of the history, read the terms of the treaties yourself. And when you said Britain "leased" Hong Kong, may I ask, had Britain ever paid any rent? Quite the contrary, China had to pay huge compensation to pay for the "lease".
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Very funny.
"????"(Tibet is free),^_^,yes, Tibet is much more free than 60 years ago, that's right! I totally agree with that. Thank you, protestors, you show the truth of Tibet and tell us that Dalai Lama who said Tibet is not free is a liar!Thank you again!
So funny!
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I'm sure most Chinese police do not know how to deal with protests and a free-reporting media.
For a western journalist, it actually take skills NOT to be mistaken for a anti-China protester and get arrested :)
I'm sure you've heard of the story of ITV China correspondant John Ray, he is not as lucky as you :P
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Just to add something, I do believe the police has gone much, much more tolerant towards such protests at least during the Olympics. On any other day, the protesters will be heavy-handedly dragged down immediately.
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Money for nothing, these protestors got a small note on the 3rd page of the news.
Hey free Tibet mercenaries, try to give some blood to the cause.
That was an 1 out of 10, no medal for you guys.
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Have our politicians been giving the Chinese tips on police intimidation of protesters?
I have been on many protest here in the UK, the police here also film protest, as well as people on their way to and from protests, hours or even days after and before such events. The crowds returning from European Social Forum in Paris were filmed by police leaving Waterloo a couple of days after the forum and protest marches in Paris ended. Why has the BBC never commented on this? Perhaps due to edicts from the UK propaganda ministry.
The BBC and its reporters really need to take stock of what it is criticising China for, and whether they hold the UK government to the same standards. So many important protests go without, or with minimal, BBC news coverage.
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I wonder how free people will be to protest in London in 2012? Given the police will be on alert for terrorism, protecting major heads of state and trying to stop general street crime etc. I wonder how sympathetic they will be to the 101 groups with an issue to protest about? I seem to remember that during the UK visit by the Chinese premier in 2004 the pro-Tibet protestors were not even allowed to protest peacefully, but were bundled out of the way and had their banners removed. The UK police regularly film people at football matches and demonstrations etc.
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Kunsel:
I am afraid that I will not able to light a candle for Tibet. The globle warming is realy serious now and have a very big impact on Tibet. If you are really want Tibet to be good. You should not do that as well.
I agree with you that if you really want peace. We fellow Chinese want it as well. you can have your free religous and we respect it and your coulture and nobody will be really care whatever you would do. However, if you want to use this reason to be independent, sorry no way. You just deeply think about it, Dalie Lama make you away from your home since he simply wants the power. Sorry about it.
Peace !
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To heyone No.67
"Talking about BBC being biased, it's also interesting to see the Chinese's anti-BBC campaign in the UK earlier this year. I just can't imagine how a bunch of British people protesting about China Central Television in Beijing could possibly happen. Perhaps CCTV is so flawless that nobody would actually wanna protest against it."
You are missing the point there. Everyone including Chinese knows that CCTV is controlled and only reports good things about CCP, therefore nobody believes it. On the contrary, the western media are always bragging about how fair they are. Then coming to report the riot in Tibet, these so-called media all so quickly start using fake photos and one-sided stories to attack China. It's the hypocracy we can't stand.
The protest is for this double standard, not because CCTV is perfect. They went protesting BBC while they well know that 'they have more freedom here than in their motherland.' Understand?
"At the same time I will start looking for a similar discussion board on CCTV website that allows me to post anti-CCTV comments."
Here comes the western mentality again. No one thinks Chinese have the same human rights as westerners. It's just that there is no need for you to show it off. You enjoy your rights in your contries as you want. You can even feel superior, but don't do it in front of us please.
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It's a pro-Tibet protest in the middle of Beijing. There are 2 points that makes this newsworthy. The first is that it is a protest, newsworthy on its own. The second is that it is pro-Tibetan. Seeing how Chinese police deal with the protests and the media is fascinating.
As soon as China happily allows peaceful protests in Beijing (a positive story about China), the BBC will cover it. The longer China continues doing what it's doing, the BBC will continue to report it.
The BBC is CONSTANTLY accused of being pro-X-government or anti-Y-country. For every accusation, there is a counter-accusation. Most of the accusations are baseless and juvenile. All I see in this post is a reporting of the events in front of the camera. Nothing negative is said of any parties.
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TO Peter_Sym wrote:
"Does your constitution specify where the border is? Historically huge parts of Korea, Siberia, Mongolia, Laos and Northern Vietnam were china. Are they in danger of being 'unified' too."
Of course not. The constitution is written when the P.R. China was founded and the border is exactly the same as it is now. What are you suggesting? You want to include Korea, Siberia, Mongolia, Laos and Northern Vietnam to your 'greater Tibet'?
"Equally if the US constitution said Argentina was part of the US would you support a US invasion to 'unify' the US. I doubt it."
If US constitution says Argentina was part of the US, there definitely won't be any Argentina by now.
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Free Tibet organization is not pro-Indepedence? Are you joking?
Go http://www.studentsforafreetibet.org/section.php?id=69:
"MISSION:
Students for a Free Tibet (SFT) works in solidarity with the Tibetan people in their struggle for freedom and independence. "
Even China becomes a West style democracy, I don't think China will give up our land.
The only way is sending your troops to China, defeat China.
James, you have a lot to do to make this happen, you can continue to destroy China's reputation, influnce more normal otherwise nice British, but need to try harder to influence Americans as well, only American can possibly wage a war againist China in nowadays. Of course the politicans are clever, they know your lies and tricks well, anyway you can do whatever you can to make this happen.
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James' blogging is much more moderate and understanding to me.
China needs large investment to make its police more professional, i.e. lenient when giving caution and harsh while carrying out duties and giving orders like their British counterparts.
If ITV newsman was not listening to the British policeman carrying out duties, he could be arrested.
Why was the ITV reporter harassing the IOC official by asking the same question about ten times? Did he ask Mr Bush 'do you feel ashamed to come and watch Olympics in China' 10 tens the same question? Bit silly to me.
A small trouble can make a big scene in China, as so many people are curious to find out what is going on and it is easy to group.
Chinese police still are not so good at crowd control as their British counterparts. So why do some of them still want to make trouble but not to make their voices heard in the designated area, particularly those foreigners? No wonder they are named as trouble-makers.
Takes times for China to change.
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To fairreport No.81,
I agree with you on the Tibet bit. But you seem having too much anger towards James which I don't think he actually deserves...
Why not just state the facts with grace, and try to believe James wouldn't mind listening?:)
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The verb 'free' in Chinese only means 'liberate', and therefore 'Free Tibet' can only means 'Tibet declares independence'. So reply to heyone No. 64, 'Free Tibet' automatically means breaking Tibet from China. We are not the ones to rethink, instead, you are the ones to rethink if using 'free tibet' is appropriate. Saying 'Free Tibet' to lobby the western mass is useful, but it will be useless in China. Believe you me.
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"Westerners" protest for the "Tibetans"-
"Free Tibet " protest breaks the Law of China - to separate the Country of China. It ain't as simple protests. The protest held by the Westerners was a form of a form of invasion of the country of China. Those kind of protesters are invaders.
Those Western journalistic mobs, including you, behaved like naughty teens who were using the opportunity of Olympic open free Chinese press to test China's tolerance as well as their limit. Therefore they were helping to fan the riot flame and supporting the foreign invasion of the country of China.
Come to think of it, WHY don't we a group of Chinese people go to do a Free Northland Protest in Trafalgar square during 2012 London Olympic? Just to for the heck of it to see if we are not going to get arrested and deported.
It's 100% guaranteed I tell you. So we may use the experience to write a nasty article about being abused bullied by the British police. And I'm sure we will also get stoned by many of the patriotic Brits. Then we'll make a huge headline in all Chinese media - " Great Britain is Big Brother state. Peaceful Chinese Free North Ireland Protesters are arrested and abuse. Their Human Rights Seriously Violated and deprived."
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Re: 50 Peter_Sym
China's miserable history during the last 2 centuries all started from the opium war.
I cannot believe now you are saying you leased Hong Kong? OK, can we lease scotland from britain now please?
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james reynolds, it's interesting that you arrived so early (6.00am) at the CCTV HQ, even before the Chinese police. The protesters must have the contact numbers of all the western reporters based in Beijing.
Some westerners still have a colonial mentality. There are nationalist/separatist movement in many western countries as well (e.g. the UK - Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland; Spain - Basque; Canada - Quebec; the USA - Texas, Hawaii; etc) but Asian visitors to these countries never poke their nose into other people's business.
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To Londonlurker
When you say that CCTV only reports good stories, I can say you are right in a sense., but not quite right. When you say no one believes it, I can say you are not right. Most people believe the stories, but you or people like you in the west. How much do you believe the BBC stories? Did you believe the sexed up Iraqi 45 minutes dossier? Where were you?
Remember former BBC 6 Oclock presenter Martin Lewis? He once appealed for more good news stories from BBC. The boss did not like that and Martin left not long after his views were heard.
Different religions have different faiths. Learn to understand and respect each other.
Why hurt majority of the people but not respect them?
With so many gold medals won by the Chinese, was it fair not to give such a country a chance to run such an event?
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#67 At the same time I will start looking for a similar discussion board on CCTV website that allows me to post anti-CCTV comments.
I tried to post some negative comments about the Chinese government on Sina and my comments were deleted immediately but good luck with that. I suspect my comments were deleted since each post contained the IP address and location of the poster, and England is an unacceptable destination from which to post. It does seem things are a little one-sided since Chinese people can contribute to western media but not vice versa.
I expect the next blog entry will contain something about the Chinese fans' despicable behaviour in booing the Japanese national anthem at today's football game. Yes, we all know about the past but why should this affect 11 men who weren't even born when Nanjing happened?
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The world is messing up now and getting very interesting. BBC James, ITV John Ray, and many representatives of western media, are trying very hard to provoke China and of course chinese people. They think in this way, China will close the door and isolate herself again...
No no no. That is wrong. China is getting very clever. Actually this time western media is a bit silly. China people is more close to and understand the government, and the country is becoming more stable.
Development is the hard principle! Nearlly all chinese know this. Whatever western media does to provoke China, we will be calm, open ourselves, develop ourself, make China better and better, of course stronger and stronger.
This is the best way to show off to BBC James. :>
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As outsiders, we sometimes cannot see the inside story clearly. But whatever it might turn out to be, I assert China's authority over Tibet, an integral part of the country.So, if the pro-Tibet group consists mainly of Tibetan natives or Westerners, they have my sympathy,for ethnic disputes are inevitable and foreigners(I wonder how many of them have ever been to Tibet and know what's going on there) tend to be duped into helping those separitists gain independence.But, if they are Han Chinese or other minorities, what they did just amounts to cutting their own throat.They are condemned to be prosecuted for treason!
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#50, Peter_Sym
Lest you should feel confused, about what you said "lease", only the part north of Kowloon peninsula that China was forced to "lease" to Britain in 1898.
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the police really needn't stop you from filming. trying to cover the camer lens only renders the feeling they were wrong and had sth to hide. chinese police is doing the right thing as required by the olympic protests regulations.
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At least Beijing police don't shoot them at subway station without any warning.
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When Iraq invade Kowait of which they claim it's a part of their land, you said it's Sadam's fault, then kill lot's of Iraq troops, and you said it's right.
When Georgia invade S.Ossetia of which they claim it's a part of their land, and when Russia fight back, you said it's Putin's fault.
Shame on you!
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"Free Tibet" means Tibet is free. Just like, not long ago, Taiwan was called "free China" by the west.
In my opinion, Tibet won't be completely free until the Tibetan minority's mind are set free from the religious shackle. Very often I see Tibetan are lining up to spin the religious wheel, whatever that is called, and wishing their next life could be as good as Dalai Lama's. How silly. Gucci shoes? no way.
The government need to spend more money and effort on education in Tibet, not giving gold for building their temples. I believe Tibetan minority are very smart. If they can be free from religious shackle, we might find some actually "earn" a Nobel prize of some sort. -- That's my comment, James. Enjoy yourself in Beijing !
I wish I were there :-(
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Tibetans understand that to the Communist regime no opposition or protest is tolerable. But Tibetans have no animosity against the Chinese people. Tibetans have witnessed the horrific suffering the Chinese people endured under the Communist dictatorship. For over 30 years the Chinese people were victimized by the severe communist indoctrination and naturally the healing process will take time. So the Tibetans do not blame these people who are still following the Party line. Tibetans only want to get the truth out to the Chinese people and the world. Why do you think no journalist have free access to Tibet? Why do you think thousands of Tibetans are rotting in prisons? Why do you think the free world is supporting Tibet. ? Why do you think so many very intellectual and patriotic Chinese are being a)detained, b)jailed, c)on black list, d)arrested on entry, e)refuse re-entry, f)accused of being Western spies and anti-Chinese??? Why since 2005, 38000 rebels occured? Why is the Party spending over $33billions on electronic surveillances.?
To the free world it is an indication of how nervous the Communist Party is of its own people and how desperately it is trying to hang on to the power.
But as long as the Communist regime is in controll,the free world would not trust nor respect China.
C.tashi
N.Y.
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Well, unlike most of the posters here, I actually saw the fuss around this protest first-hand.
Most Chinese didn't care, a few were amused and taking photos but it was a very poorly attended affair in general. Most people were journalists.
I've seen more people watching a chess-match on a street-corner.
One wonders how all the journalists knew to arrive at just the right time.
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there are dozens? Dear James, I realy doubt your maths now.
and why do you think all those without uniforms are police? If there are already lots of police in uniform why others try to be in plain cloths? You are too suspicious.
It's ok the state tv doesn't broadcast, not just because the reason you stated, but also because it is not worth it. If one protestant hung a flag, he won a news on a national televison, then how much news there would be? Have you ever try not to consider they are evil? It will do you no good.
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This is my first post on BBC. Basically, i read on BBC regularly since it's unblocked around the global torch relay. I am a chinese who was born in China, and has been living in China all my life. And i am an university student now.
The reason i disclosed a little bit of my personal information is that i hope i could be more representative of contemporary chinese youth and my attitudes, my perception of China could have more credits, and closer to truth than that of most of foreigners ,and even most western journalists, like JAMES.
I think every regular BBC visitor , as long as having the slighest personal experience in China and the slightest fair mind, would not dispute that BBC's reports on China is quite SELECTIVE and far from fair, and show no respects whatsoever almost to the point of vilification in many scenario.
I think that's partly due to different ideology which based on a long history and partly due to well, ignorance and arrogance of BBC about China's culture, social aspects, and history.
While western people tend to view chinese grassroots as brainwashed and manipulated by its media, I hope western people could realize that anyone who try to learn about this world ourside of UK and its ally from BBC, he would be seriously fooled. Reading from BBC's china report, i have to ask myself : am i really living in China?
Before you jumped into the conclusion that i am just one of those poor chinese people who are manipulated by its repressive government and fetted media, i tell you that all the news and analysis i read for the last two years are from english sources. enough said.
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64. At 2:40pm on 15 Aug 2008, heyone wrote:
I am not saying none of the campaigners are actually separatists, but at least I don't think Dalai Lama himself is a separatist.
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Er...his was a separatist when we were poor back then (~before 89), he is not since we are rich now. Waging a violent uprising and fleeting to India with the help of CIA (a US intelligence agency operating in...a non US territory if that's not China to u, wow how glorious and heroic and honorable), OH so much for that Nitroglycerin Peace Prize his received!!! If I ever get nominated one for chemistry I would just accept it and dump it into the litter bin in front of all the judges.
58. At 2:06pm on 15 Aug 2008, Kunsel wrote:
I hope that you hizento and that you too rrrrzzzz will be lighting a candle for Tibet on Saturday the 23rd of August at 9pm.
In doing so you also will be helping China.
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Hey I know u didnt mention me here, but I would like u to know that I personally prefer to join some charity programs and go to tibet as a volunteer to teach kids and women the knowledge they really need so one day they can go out to see the world and decide what freedom they really want and how they want to achieve it, rather than lighting a pathetic meaningless candle that can only satisfy sb's well intended but truely empty 'free tibet' dream, plus contributing to release of global warming gas and waste of resources and precious oxygen.
I STRONGLY hope our gov can revise and change the current ethnic minority policies asap to protect their cultures, help them achieve greater economic success and improve ties b/w all ethnic groups in the coutry to better fit the current situation. BUT I'm really really fed up with some ppl's no PLA troops, no culture genoside (maybe I should sit outside US embassy telling them no more genoside on Chinese culture as a whole), no Han and muslim immigration (talking about racism, ha!) blah blah etc etc rubbish.
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Hi BBC James, how is the weather in Beijing last week? How is pollution? Why are you keeping so quiet about pollution these days?
Please write more about pollution if possible, especially give us more recent pictures. Please! Please!
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For the media to report these protest events is great for overseas consumptions, but for the Chinese to see these guests "misbehaving" in their "home", while the host is having a celebration ,is perceived as an insult. These protestors may soon be back home safely with little consequences, but they left behind suspicions and animosity with the local ethnics; Pitching various grougs into hostilities. Do these protesters plan to instigate more upheavals,or was it just a no brainer's act of an idealist.
it is possibly going to take a war,and huge migration with certain suffering of family seperation ,to free a "disputed" territory.
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Tip 1: Change the banner colour to red.
Reason: The red banners (usu. with white propaganda words on them) hanging on Beijing streets everywhere have never got confiscated.
Tip 2: Foreign journalists (esp. the ones not carrying cameras) should wear a t-shirt saying "I AM A REPORTER, DO NOT ARREST ME" in Chinese.
Reason: It seemed none of the policemen understood what ITV's reporter kept explaining in English when he was arrested.
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To antimatterbomb No.100,
"I would like u to know that I personally prefer to join some charity programs and go to tibet as a volunteer to teach kids and women the knowledge they really need"
You may check out the 'Chinese Student Volunteering Society' on facebook. It's founded by one of my friends and most of the members are overseas students in UK. They organize people to teach underprivileged children in rural areas in China. This summer they were planned to go to Tibet but couldn' go because of the riot and therefore hightened security. But I image they will go next summer. If you are interested, feel free to join. More than 1000 members atm, foreigners and donations are welcome.
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James, I am just curious why you can be present at the spot so quickly. Even pro-Tibet campaigners haven't landed, you have shot them.
Did they call you in advance?
:) Maybe I am innocent, but just feel a little strange.
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Kunsel wrote:
Please Light a Candle for Tibet
Would you light a candle for Iraq also?
Or best bring your Free Iraq banners to Washingtin DC and hang them down from US government buildings. I would really like know how the Americans would greet you.
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To MartinFang No.87,
Yes, sorry, 'no one believes CCTV' is not precise. There must be some no-brainers who believe everything on TV, my mistake. If you want to argue with how true a statement is. We better sit down and talk a week or two.
'Believe' is really a tricky word. It means accept without a shadow of doubt. How many people can do that I wonder? Most people are accepting information from TV and hold their own opinions at the same time. Can you say these people believed TV programes? How would you know that they actually believed? Apart from that, how many people simply don't care about what's on TV? How many will always be skeptic about everything? So when you say 'Most people believe the stories', I seriously doubt it.
Btw, I bet you haven't read my comments carefully. I'm a Chinese. How can I not respect Chinese people? I respect everyone respectable, but CCTV is definitely not on my list.
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1. There are problems in Tibet, like anywhere else in the world. but it is amazing everyone is focusing on this territory, not because it's highest altitude. So, well done China, only significant countries can have this degree of attention, you have made it in a way.
2. Tibet is part of China. No question of that. There will never be a country called Tibet. For those activists, you have to accept this before you decide your next move. Otherwise, you are putting yourself in a battle you can never win. And the result is you are not more than the clowns of the media.
3. Media is nobody's friend, and anything sells counts in this industry, not considering whether it is positive or negative for the people. Watching the news every evening in London, you just feel how dark this country is. But if you were in China, watching the TV there, I admit there is a degree of propaganda, you feel happy, and the majority there are much happier and more positive towards their lives now and in the future. So the communism media has done a good job despite the critics from the west.
4. The protest. How much has any protest achieved in any country? It has its tradition, young children in their early twenties within a wealthy family background. I wonder how many banner players have lived in China? or been to Tibet. Trying to find out the root of the problem. How many of them have tried to study how the Chinese government works, through which to really IMPROVE the situation in Tibet. Protest is an expensive game for naive people, it is nothing but entertaining. If you do want to put up a banner, think twice of the wording. Many here has mentioned this. It's more than misleading. It also unveils how illiterate you are.
5. Dala Lama. what's the difference between him and Nelson Manela? Manela would never have fled his country simply to survive. Fleeing from his own land as a leader is regarded, especially in China, as serious betray. Why is Dala Lama still respected?
If you really want to solve a problem, spend some time do some research. Pure physical exercise just won't do. Olympic athletes will tell you brain and muscles are equally important. Trying to embarrass the Olympic hosting country during the games just to grab a headline of some press should be considered the abuse of the essential Olympic spirits.
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hi i m an international student in the UK. i do not understand why BBC always broadcasts dark side of china. i m not saying that you can not do that. but i think you should give ppl a true and fair view of china. if you thought that there r too many problems unsolved in china, i mean you can broadcast 80% of news on dark side, and 20% on bright side. but all i can see in the website are nearly 100% news about dark side. the communist party are making majority chinese richer and richer. if BBC keep doing that, that only make chinese hate UK. because majority chinese s getting better off under communist regime.Chinese will not think BBC is helping China to solve human right problems. because i think human right problem happen in every relative poor country. it s not an big issue about 21st centry. because we did not have human right problem in the Tang dynasty. because we were rich. and you got human right problem at that time, because you were poor at that time. India has human right problem ,but i ve rarely seen you did broadcast on that.i think BBC reporters and the senior officers' mind still stay in the cold war period--capi. Vs. Comu. or you just intended to do so. i think china is growing fast nation, that s unstopable. you got 2 ways to deal with that. 1st choice keep Demonizing China,and then chinese will hate british. because there are so many young internationl students in the Uk and watching the BBC website, they are the future of China. you are making the enemy for your country's future.2nd choice start making true and fair news about China. then you are making friends with future of china.
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I think they intended to use the Chinese characters to mislead Chinese public. The Chinese characters can be translated as "Tibet free".
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To those who mention obeying the law:
Doesn't the rule of officials and government come above the law? China's consitution contains passages about freedom of speech, etc. Doesn't the government and officials violate it on a daily basis?
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To worlddonotforgettibet:
When reading what your comments, I cannot help laughing. Are you teasing people? If chinese government is so bad, why majority people support it?
You are very interesting! Please write more and make funny story!
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To James.
This BBC propoganda machine is reporting about the CCP propoganda machine and saying the BBC propoganda machine is better than the CCP propoganda machine. Chinese call the CCP propoganda machine as propoganda machine and the western public call BBC propoganda machine as free media.
James is playing his old game again. Last time James claimed that the Chinese media did not report torch relay protest, he was proved lying. This time he takes the risk of saying something similar again to gain western public attention, but he is getting smarter as he knows the Chinese media is unlikely to mention such minor incident. So his risk of being caught lying is much smaller.
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Those seeking an independent Tibet should best remember that one cannot demand at the negotiating table what one does not command in the battle field. How many divisions has the Dalai Lama?
Besides there are 1.2 billion Han Chinese and only 5 to 6 million Tibetans in the whole of Tibet. Taking into account those who still consider themselves Tibetans in the neighbouring Chinese provinces of Yunnan and Gansu, the number at most goes up to 10 million.
Everyday, more and more Han Chinese are settling in Tibet. RIGHTLY SO. To tell Han Chinese that they have no right to settle in areas which they consider part of China is like telling white American settlers not to move into New Mexico or Texas in the days when Hispanics were still a majority.
What about Britain, whose media and pro-Tibet lobby think that they are on high moral ground when lecturing to China on Tibet. Didn't successive English monarchs at one time from Elizabeth I to Oliver Cromwell encourage Protestants to settle in Scotland as a form of diluting the troublesome Catholics there?
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The following are direct quote from "The Tibet Myth" by Michael Parenti ..... Yes, the "holy" lamas did that to our Tibetan brothers and sisters, and one of them won a Nobel "peace" prize. Mr. Nobel should protest from his grave. He must be crying now.
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Torture and Mutilation in Shanghri-La
In the Dalai Lama's Tibet, torture and mutilation -- including eye gouging, the pulling out of tongues, hamstringing, and amputation of arms and legs -- were favored punishments inflicted upon thieves, runaway serfs, and other "criminals." Journeying through Tibet in the 1960s, Stuart and Roma Gelder interviewed a former serf, Tsereh Wang Tuei, who had stolen two sheep belonging to a monastery. For this he had both his eyes gouged out and his hand mutilated beyond use. He explains that he no longer is a Buddhist: "When a holy lama told them to blind me I thought there was no good in religion." (19) Some Western visitors to Old Tibet remarked on the number of amputees to be seen. Since it was against Buddhist teachings to take human life, some offenders were severely lashed and then "left to God" in the freezing night to die. "The parallels between Tibet and medieval Europe are striking," concludes Tom Grunfeld in his book on Tibet.
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Let me add something to my earlier comment about the importance of controlling the ground before one makes demands at the negotiating table.
The couple of times I happened to watch the activites of the so-called Free Tibetans on TV, they don't strike me as a credible force. Like that ragtag of an army that sought to march from India (or was it Nepal) to China during the time of the Tibetan riots in Lhasa. It couldn't even overcome the cane and baton-weilding Indian or Nepali police, much less take on the Chinese garrison in Beijing. I am afraid should this motley group of men ever reach China, the only thing they are likely to achieve is to frighten the poor pandas in Woolong Park more than the hardened People's Liberation Army.
May I politely suggest that these men consider a switch in career, like signing up as extras the next time Hollywood does a remake of the move The River Kwai. They look sufficiently emaciated for the role.
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Lawrence commented above at #112 - "Pitching various grougs into hostilities." ... No doubt that is western media's best.
But, the fact that they can do that, and do that on China's soil, tells me China is still very weak. Chinese people are not solid enough. Something is not quite right.
Instead of blaming western media, I believe Chinese people need to do more thinking, more reflection on how to make China strong. Winning more gold medals is clearly not enough, although it helps a little bit on solidarity. Personally I think more work need to be done on education.
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That poor young policeman and that cunning veteran reporter --- (James, not you)
Do people in the west know that many Chinese policemen (called armed policemen) are not permanent postholders but on short-term duty like 4-year term of your prime minister?
They are then retired when the term is finished to look for other jobs. Many ended up as security guards for private companies. This is what the west like to call 'the army' on the move very often. I wish this type of policemen would stay on as permanent and get more and more professional dealing with civilians like other local policemen.
The veteran ITV report has taken advantage of this young policeman.
To make what point? To attack the Chinese government, and the IOC.
Look, the reports of the 'free-tibet' protests against the torch-relays in the west have actually helped the Chinese Government educate many of the younger generation who normally show a rebellous attitude towards the education from their own government. The Chinese government did control reporting this inside China to avoid what the west could accuse of 'nationalism'. But the young people studying abroad experienced this and you saw their anger with the western media on the internet.
Have you turned Chairman Mao over as he is alive again saying 'Bad things turned up to be good things'?
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Hooray!! People are beginning to realise how biased the liberal lefties of the BBC are, being very selective in their reporting of events in China. I've visited China many times and admire the progress they have made, while spurning Western economic models. Yes, there are human rights concerns, but why not give equal coverage to the atrocities in Saudi arabia and othercountries. Why?? because we value their oil above all else, and we're so influenced by US-based think tanks.
Wake up!! China will be THE leading world power within 5 years, relegating the US, which of course they will continue to whine about.
If all the BBC can do is 'cut and paste' a report from the Sydney Herald, then it's time there was a dramatic overhaul of the BEEB.
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Does not your correspondent know the history between Japan and China when reporting on the Japan vs China football match?
I suggest he visit a few of the remaining survivors of the Nanjing massacre and other atrocities by the Japanese against the Chinese people. History shows China has never been the invading aggressor.
As for Britain, why did we flog so much opium to the Chinese - only because we had nothing else worthwhile in exchange for Chinese goods.
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There is a word we western posters use in places like the China Daily forum, "Chinauvinists". It describes the one-eyed rabid nationalists who post racist anti-western garbage. I can see that they also visit the BBC blogs as well !
While these Chinauvinists criticise the "bad news" printed by western sources, we hear nothing from them about the real news (the fatal bus crash, bad sportsmanship of the soccer crowd, censorship notifications etc) which is deliberately suppressed by the Chinese media.
When the Chinese authorities stop the censorship, stop jailing journalists who expose the hypocrisy and crimes of officials, and stop slandering the Dalai Lama, then there'll be nothing to write about.
Ever thought about that, Chinauvinists ?
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Even the stupid Beijing police can figure out that BBC staged this protest to get more attention. CNN does not need to do this, their election itself is already big enough. It is such a shame that nobody in the world care about the British election, except yourselves. This show you staged is useless and did not help your rating at BBC.
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Something does not quite pass the smell test. In a city of 17 million people, buzzing with gazillions of Olympic events, athletes, tourists, activities and stories, and there you have it, James Reynolds "happened" upon, at the right time and the right place, a protest that lasted for practically a few blinks of an eye. And the "right" time happens to be at 6 o'clock in the morning, when most people are barely wakening up from their dreams. Hello, do I smell a giant rat called collusion here? Since when has collusion become a job requirement for BBC "journalists"? Is BBC so worried that it has repeatedly been out scooped by the likes of News of the World and the National Enquirer that it has adopted the "high standards" of the aforementioned paragons of journalistic sleaze?
I can go on and on, but I'm going to stop here, because I'm rushing off to climb atop the Big Ben and hang a banner from up there denouncing 1) the illegal war in Iraq that George Bush and his lap dog Tony Blair started based on faulty intelligence at best and manufactured intelligence at worst; 2) Britain's continuing occupation of the Falklands (after all, the Argentinians claim the territory is theirs; 3) the potato famine that resulted in the death of hundreds of thousands of those poor Irish; 4) the immoral Opium War that Britain waged against China, resulting in immeasurable sufferings for the Chinese people for 100 years; 5) Britain's involvement in the enslavement of tens of millions of Africans, and so on.
Shhh, don't tell anyone I'm going to do this. I'm only going to call a few trusted "friends" at BBC (if you know what I mean, blink, blink) so that they will be there just in time to film my protest. I want my "friends," who are too lazy (and have too fixed an agenda) to look for real stories, to have something to report. Don't worry, the police won't dare to arrest me for illegal trespassing and public nuisance, because my "friends" will be there waiting and filming, to make Britain and the police look bad. I will get my 10-seconds of fame, and my "friends" will get an exclusive scoop. It's a win-win. Off I go, James! See you at the Big Ben! Be on time to catch the moment! Make sure your camera will be ready!
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To #29 Manspet
You wrote, "... Chinese law and nothing to do with human rights! I would suggest Chinese government should convict this pro-separarists according to Chinese law, not simply deported them."
The Chinese law is that of an immature teenager who is self-centered uncivilized. Until Dr. Sun Yat-sen, in 1911, overthrew the Ching/Manchu Dynasty to set up "Republic of China," there was no law in China. Local and higher judges including emperors judged according to how they felt and thought. Dr. Sun Yat-sen did not create law on issues of separatist aspiration. The so-called law in China is a very young immature creation. Chairman Mao chased away the then President of Republic of China, Chiang Kai-shed, to Taiwan. Mao then set up "Peoples" Republic of China to this day. Human Rights issue is an international one and everyone has a right to meddle in it. All races are related by blood according to genetic research articles published. The whole world is a blood relative to all of us, and therefore, human rights issue is a "world family" issue for any one to be involved. The excuse of East vs. West and domestic vs. foreign is plain bullying.
"If there is evidence that foreign journalists broke the law as well, these journalists should be deported as well and should not be allowed to come to China forever."
It's 21st Century and you are still playing the ancient policy of making the Chinese masses unlearnt and ignorant?? Journalists help educate people. The Chinese government should be more confident letting people have the freedom of press and expression. The average of 800 unrests a year in China do not come from having free press since there is no real news in China. If the government takes care more of the disadvantaged instead of wasting money on the extravaganza of Olympics, there definitely will be fewer social unrests. Did USA and England fall like Roman Empire because of free press, speech, expression, religion among other things?
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To #80 Londonlurker
So, why bother wanting Taiwan?
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To #80 Londonlurker
Peter_Sym asked you, "Does your constitution specify where the border is?" Historically huge parts of Korea, Siberia, Mongolia, Laos and Northern Vietnam were China. Are they in danger of being 'unified' too."
You answered, "Of course not. The constitutioon is written when the P.R. China was founded and the border is exactly the same as it is now. What are you suggesting: You want to include Korea, Siberia, Mongolia, Laos and Northern Vietnam to your 'greater Tibet'?"
I am curious about why China bothers wanting Taiwan. If China does not pursuit all these lost territories, why Taiwan?
Lukai
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What's the point of these protests? People there don't even understand a word, a few people who get close enough to read the thin Chinese hate them to the core. The more circus shows like this were put on, the more nationalism/patriotism would be ignited. The Chinese chose communism at the first place only because the communists were the only ones who could keep China from loosing territory to foreign powers, - UK included. Protesting for a free tibet would only be splitting China in a form other than war for them, so what would you expect the Chinese to react? Clapping their hands for you?
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voodohaze:
I see you mentioned the spanish basketball team picture as 'racist'...
To be honest I don't feel anything wrong with that picture thinking it's really a funny/nice one.
I am a Chinese and in my opinion the obvious step China and its people need to take before it resume its glory is to face it's faliure and enjoy its success.
We see people critic the mimic performance and I'm glad that many of us can critic China's failure.
We also see some people complain the CCTV play Chinese player's gold taken moment again and again but what they didn't aware is every country is doing the same. BBC is playing British player's golden moment again and again too.
We need not to let the last 100 year's failure overshadow us and become confident
again. And that very first step, is to allow the voice of critics.
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the filming has gone to far for Eddie Romero filming himself doing paintings on the wall of his hotel room. this is getting a bit nutty.
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,tclim38Hi.
It is likes of you who need to be educated not the Tibetans. By criticizing our religion you are violating the human rights. And, when you make a mock ring of religion, you are insulting 660million Chinese Buddhists, between 20-30 million chinese muslims and 40-45 million chinese christains.
More over there are 238 Christain countries and regions ,54 muslim countries ,837million Hinduism followers and172Buddistism countries and regions that are freely practicing religion. Guess you can not expect a mechanic to understand the theory of relativity!!
C.tashi
N.Y.
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Hi James
I just saw you on BBC this morning, with Hazel. You are talking about Liu Xiang, who withdrew because of injury. And you looked so delighted as if you had won a Olympic medal. I think that shows your personality quite well.
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127. At 10:28am on 17 Aug 2008, lukaigirl wrote:
To #80 Londonlurker
So, why bother wanting Taiwan?
------------------------------
Taiwan is part of China. It is written in Chinese Constitution as well. You can check out the offical boarder line of China.
Also, Tainwan Constituion claims the mainland is part of Taiwan. They want the unity as well. One country, two governments because of the cival war. Learn some history please.
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Patsf8 said that he/she was going to " climb atop the Big Ben and hang a banner from up there denouncing 1) the illegal war in Iraq.. 2) Britain's continuing occupation of the Falklands .. 3) the potato famine .. 4) the immoral Opium Warand 5) Britain's involvement in the enslavement of tens of millions of Africans."
Please be assured, Pat, that if you were to raise China's equivalent issues like Tibet, Human Rights, Jailing dissidents, reporters and so on, then your post would be removed promptly. Quite unlike the freedoms the BBC allows you.
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129. At 3:53pm on 17 Aug 2008, lukaigirl wrote:
To #80 Londonlurker
I am curious about why China bothers wanting Taiwan. If China does not pursuit all these lost territories, why Taiwan?
Lukai
------------------------------------
Please! Your ignorance strikes me. Who told you that China has lost Taiwan? Taiwan is not a country, it hasn't declared independence. Most of the countries in the world agrees that Taiwan is part of China. The mainland and the island is divided by politics and meddling of the west.
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To lukaigirl.
Journalists do help to educate people. But only real journalists do that job. Right-wingers who drape themself as journalists had help the western government mobilizing public into accepting and supporting wars.
According to you, Chinese government should say yes to all separatists, right? Your expectation is too high. The governments of UK, USA, Canada, Russia, Iraq...... from west to east all reject separarists. There is no government on this planet will do that. The only time that happens is when the nation is weak, unable to fight back. With China on the rise, those separatists will certainly end up with disappointment.
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To 123.
All the Chinese should respect your dear Dalai Lama like they did to Chairman Mao. Every one should have a little red book with bad karma theory printed in it. I do not see it happening because Chinese know what absolute power brings.
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hehe
I truelly feel sad for those protesting for Tibet in Beijing, reason being that they are seen by the on-looking Chinese as "SB" ( a Beijing slang meaning idiot or retard), nothing more. Yet the demonstrators feel heroic. They didn't even make Beijingers angry. They were seen as if they were some naughty kids or drunks.
It's time that these pro-Tibet boys wake up to the reality and reflect on why they are seen as SB in China.
I walys thought the British as a nation was of good degree of wisdom and intelligence, but have failed to understand why they wouldn't even spend a couple of hours to study the history of Tibet if they are THAT interested in it.
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To #136, Kudos to BBC for allowing people post comments -- but this does not mean that BBC journalists should suspend journalistic judgment and start manufacturing news and creating controversy by colluding with protesters. Journalists are there to report genuine news, not to creating political theater to advance one's own political agenda or to make one "stand out" before the BBC brass (the bigger the controversy, the bigger the chance for promotion??). James Reynolds' little theatrics are reminiscent of what unscrupulous tabloid 'journalists' routinely do to create news by framing people and creating those 'gottya' moments. This damages the reputation of BBC and its journalists, because we all thought BBC journalists had higher standards. If we can no longer trust the integrity of BBC, whom can we trust?!
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JohnB_Melb #123
Do you live in China? Do you know the Chinese language? If you don't, how would you know such news as fatal bus crash, bad sportsmanship etc are "deliberately suppressed by the Chinese media"?
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To LondonLurker #135
You said, " ... They want the unity as well. One country, two governments because of the civil war ... "
Take a deep breath, are you ready?
On September 08, 1951, the Treaty of San Francisco was signed beween the Allied Powers and Japan by 49 nations, in which, Taiwan's status was left unsettled. USA actually had, and has to this very day, the control of the island. It is not what you think "meddling" but the International Law dictates the Victor Allied Nations led by US has the power of sovereignty over Japan's colony, Taiwan. Chiang Kai-shek, the then President of Repblic of China (vs. People's Republic of China) was even asked by US to declare independence from the mainland so that Chiang would forever be the rightful legitimate ruler on the island. Poor Chiang refused it because as a Chinese it was face-losing to do so. Chiang continued to claim the KMT (Kuomintang)/Taiwan's Nationalist Party, was the only legitimate government of Mainland and Taiwan. Today, the new President Ma Ying-jiou only wants better ties with China under a policy of "Mutual nondenial" (With 800 bullying missiles directing at Taiwan, does Ma have a say of any more provocative stuff?) not what you say, "They want the unity as well." A referendum is yet to be carried out on this issue of self-determination of Taiwan. And of course, Tibet and Uyghrestan also need to do so without the meddling of China. The government of China has been brainwashing its people including the farmers to shout out loud for unification; therefore, any referrendum including the Chinese will be unfair. Only Tibetans, Uyghurs, and Taiwanese are living the horor of bullying under the big Dragon, not the Chinese, as many of you bloggers have pointed out that the Chinese are free and happy. So, you Chinese just need to get ahead with life without such big ambition to annex all the neigbouring countries, and onto the whole world eventually.
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" ... Who told you that China has lost Taiwan? Taiwan is not a country, it hasn't declared independence. .... "
Ready for a bed time story?
On May 25, 1895, Taiwanese proclaimed the "Republic of Formosa" to resist impending Japanese rule. In 1871, a Japanese vessel shipwrecked on southern tip of Taiwan and 54 members of crew were BEHEADED by the Paiwan/Lukai aborigines. The collection of heads is to show off as proof of manhood. When Japan complained to the Ching or Manchu government of China, the Chinese court rejected any compensation on the grounds that the unsubjugated savages were outside its jurisdiction. The open renunciation of sovereignty led to the colonization of Formosa in 1895 until Japan lost World War II in 1945. Then Chiang Kai-shek was given temporary governance of Taiwan because he was chased away by Mao and became homeless with 2-3 million soldiers and upper-class in tow. Manchu Dynasty as well as People's Republic of China, never established Formosa/Taiwan as a province formally applying onto them the political system of China Proper. The migrations of southern Chinese and Chiang's people, do not automatically shift the self-determined self-sufficient Formosans/Taiwanese into the claws of the big Dragon.
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To Post 29:
SFT is not protesting in China to split Tibet from China which you fail to see and from your post it clearly shows that you don?t have enough knowledge about Tibet Issue.
If you say Tibet issue is not about Human Right then you are far behind all the people in this forum. Tibetans in Tibet are not allowed to keep H.H. Dalai Lama photos in their home and monasteries. This is violation of Human Right which grants them free to worship. It is like asking churches to stop displaying Jesus Statue and picture and like asking Hindus not to display the picture of Lord Krishna and Ram.
Tibetans are living under Chinese constitution but Chinese constitution is not applied for Tibetans. It?s like a food display in the glass which you can see but can?t eat.
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To lukaigirl No.146,
It is indeed a bed time story, a story happened more than a century ago. How about we set the time back to two centuries ago when there was no US? Let's free American then. Come on!
Republic of China was founded when? You tell me. And was the ruling party of Taiwan claimed then and still claims that the mainland is part of the Republic? Aren't you still under the ruling of KMT? If you are a deep green party, fine. But don't ignore the reality yet only tell bedtime story that has past to history long time ago.
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To Mark Post 23 :
I was wondering from where you got to know that Tibet is part of china for 700 years.
Did you read this from Little Red Book? I think you know nothing.
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To yellowminshurts Post 149
I was wondering from where you got to know that Tibet is not part of china for 700 years.
Did you read this from the BBC? I think you know nothing.
lol...
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Let me chime in please, Lukaigirl.
If like you said, Taiwan is not part of China, why the time Chiang Kai-sheik came to Taiwan, no country in this world complained that he, a mainlander, invaded Taiwan. And, not only that, Taiwan was called the Free China for many years.
I was told when Chinese army came to take back Taiwan after WWII, Taiwanese lined up on the streets to welcome them. When, 50 years earlier, Japan came to take over, after Chinese government of the last dynasty signed the agreement to cede Taiwan to them, Taiwanese rose up to fight against them. Wondering why?
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Hi,manpet!
I know it is hard to swallow the truth and it hurts. And exhibiting ferocious temper and inability to discern facts from fiction is the characteristic
Of a Communist Party clone.
China is splitting in to three divisions:-
a) The intellectual dissidents who are fighting for the respect, dignity ,rights
And freedom of the Chinese people.
b)The capitalistic Chinese entrepreneurs who venture out,develope relationship and bring prosperity to the country.
c)The Communist Party that just would not give up the 50 years tyranny over people, slave labour abortion ,summary execution?..is a threatening
Dark cloud to the shinning new china.
C.tashi
n.y.
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