Chinese lose... at sabre fencing
China's won a foundry full of gold medals (so many that I won't bother to list how many, for fear of making this post immediately out of date.) So far, China's Olympic team has got the gold in most of the events it's expected to win.
But what happens on those occasions when its team doesn't win? And, in particular, when China comes excruciatingly close to gold?
I've just been to see the final of the women's sabre fencing - China v Ukraine - one of the most bone-crushingly tense sporting events I've ever seen.
There were thousands of us inside the stadium - most came to cheer loudly for China.
"Stab her!" a man (who was not a fencing expert) near me shouted out in encouragement.
This policy seemed to work. The Chinese team swished its way into the lead and it held onto it for most of the match.
"Zhong Guo, Jiayou," - Go China, the crowd chanted.
But Ukraine poked and hacked its way back into the match. After an hour, the score was tied 44-44 and tournament came down to a final, single point. The Chinese player Tan Xue and the player from the Ukraine Olga Kharlan attacked at the same time. They both screamed in victory (so did the crowd), but the referee couldn't work out which player won. So he ordered the point to be replayed. The crowd decided it would be easier to carry on screaming.
The players lunged, and Ukraine got the point and the gold. The crowd clapped and then went quiet. A few seconds later stadium, the lights went on. In one corner, a group of female fans was crying.
"I'm so disappointed," said one young man, "but they'll get the gold next time."
The Chinese players sat in a huddle on the ground. Later on, they picked themselves up for the medal ceremony. The four team members walked in, waved to the crowd, and slapped hands with the gold medal winners. When the Ukraine national anthem started playing, the Chinese players put down their bouquets of flowers and stood respectfully with their arms at their sides (a Chinese tradition.) The crowd clapped the winners politely.
The Chinese team had been millimetres away from gold in front of their home crowd - but they lost out. It's the kind of thing that might keep you awake at night in agony for years. But that's for the future. Tonight, the sabre team went out with grace.
I’m 
© MMIX~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~54~RS~)
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And they call that fencing. Just poking around for an opening and doing a stupid dance.
Boring.
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We have won load of gold medals and what did you do?
You picked one we lose! How dare you not singing Hymns to Motherland (MINE!) load and clear?
Why are all westerners so anti-Chinese?
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Hello TaiyuanRen,
Pls do not so defensive. In this one, James just write what he was seeing, hearing.
We should more open-minded.
Thanks
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To TaiyuanRen:
Calm down. You overreact under no provocation. This time James wrote great post and I really enjoyed the absence of any uneasy tone.
FYI I'm a young overseas Chinese.
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'TaiyuanRen'
You and james should sing 'God saves the Queen' together for your motherland. Make sure the lyrics are not out of sequence or you may get into trouble again!
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TaiyuanRen,
I actually appreciate James covering this one. Seeing as how China is the host nation, there is plenty of recognition going towards Chinese gold everywhere. I think James was very respectful towards the Chinese team and the Chinese audience and shows the grace to accept defeat and not be sore losers. That is also very much in the Olympic spirit. Everyone has been going on and on about how China expects to win this and that, and how athletes have unrealistic expectations and pressure, so it's nice to enjoy a moment of genuine sportsmanship.
Also, Fencing itself is not a massively popular sport. I certainly haven't seen it broadcasted (just swimming and gymnastics), so it's nice that there is some insight into a sport I've probably never watched.
Thanks James.
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Also TaiyuanRen,
Good question, why are Westerners so anti-Chinese? But you should also ask yourself, why are you so anti-Western. If I'm not wrong, a Chinese belief is that we should ask more of ourselves and less of others.
"How dare you not singing Hymns to Motherland (MINE!) load and clear?"
As you say, Hymns to Motherland is yours, not James' , so why SHOULD he sing it *loud* and clear. I doubt anyone would expect you to sing God Bless the Queen or the The Star Spangled Banner with vigor and enthusiasm.
Let's not resort to knee-jerk reactions. I'm sure you are a patriotic Chinese which is commendable, but resorting to unreasonable attacks only decreases your (and our collective) credibility.
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To rrrrzzzz No3,
TaiyuanRen is clearly not a Chinese. There are quite a lot of anti-chinese here doing just that.
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Thanks to James for writing positive things about China. I appreciate it.
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Seriously, I can't see why Chinese are SO defensive. I can't see ANYTHING that's offensive in this story. Is it a tradition for Chinese to attack the Western media or something?
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Conversely, why are Chinese so anti-Western?
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Oh, and a third thing--To TaiyuanRen, have you EVEN considered the fact that maybe China has won so many gold medals that the only news is when China loses?
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This is just the beginning of a campaign against the Chinese and their way of divide and conquer (not the Chinese but it's ur government we are against). Small minded ppl!! It will only get worst with the Western media including hollywood film and even regular tv shows in the US.
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There`s been some other really exciting contests so far. For me the women`s team gymnastics final has been the most nail biting so far. China and America were neck and neck (including falls) right up to the final moment; but then Sacramone had a bad landing; Cheng Fei then only had to make a mistake free routine for their team to take the gold, she did a flawless routine’ her face at the end said it all. The mens gymnastics`s mens` final was more clear cut, but I think Yang Wei could see the upcoming young pretenders (Uchimura and Caranobe) that could well take his title in London. Adlington winning gold by a finger tip in the swimming also was a moment to relish.
Although China has been hyped do well (and are), Olympic events aren’t a pushover, they’re being pressed hard. America is as competitive as always; I expect them to give China`s women gymnasts a real contest tomorrow, the Americans want a gold after the team event result. The big surprises have been how well Japan and S. Korea have done and that the western European countries are now starting to make their presence felt. It`s interesting how many countries are sharing the medals in Judo and several other sports, smaller countries are clearly targeting individual sports . There`s the track and field events to come too, where America will expect to do well.
I think all athletes in Beijing realise there no such thing as an easy, assured victory (well, apart from Michael Phelps that is…), just ask Katie Hoff.
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Come one, #2 (TaiyuanRen), lighten up! James Reynolds is a reporter, not a cheerleader for anybody or any nation. And if he really does his job right as a reporter, he should remain completely neutral. Plus, I don’t think this piece is anti-Chinese at all. He simply recorded what he experience. And if anything, I think he’s done quite a good job depicting the graceful side of the Chinese player, who showed dignity when facing defeat.
Believe or not, I have defended China against some truly insidious and biased reporting by some western “journalists,” but I don’t think this particular piece belongs in that category. Just because James Reynolds reported that China lost this event (yes, it’s just an Olympic event, not life and death!) does not mean he is anti-Chinese. He’s simply telling a story from a different and interesting angle, i.e., grace in the fact of adversity and defeat, and the very human reaction of athletes who lost the chance for gold that they were expecting to win.
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That's a game and that's how Olympics works. Well done, Ukraine team! Well done, China team!
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No two teams can win gold. One will get gold, and the other the silver. Not a big deal.
To many Chinese, both inside China and outside, our satisfaction is in the fact that China has won more gold than Britain, and could possibly even top the US in the gold tally.
Actually one cannot help but feel that Britain is slipping. As of the morning of Thursday 14 August, it is in 9th position, having won only 2 golds, behind Japan, and even South Korea. Even the Italians and Germans are ahead of you.
Oh, oh, oh......how stupid of me. You didn't go there to win medals, but to par-ti-ci-pate. Really????
But our biggest satisfaction will come in four years time when London hosts the next Olympics. Needless to say, you will never be able to match the Chinese in infrastructure. You don't have that kind of money. What more: if the predictions of some economists are correct, you (and the US) are headed for a deep recession, one that could possibly last longer than you think. I understand your banks are not doing too well, and so is your property market. I think economists call it Deflation, something akin to pricking a balloon and letting air out of it. And the beauty of it all is that the US subprime crisis is also about to hit you. Soon some of you will be repossessed of your properties. I shall be generous and not be too gleeful about it.
We in Asia hope that you will take the hard medicine you recommended to us during the Asian Financial Crisis of the late 1990s. That is, no government bail-outs, and let the free market run its course. It would be a good test for Englishmen. Helps make you all a better people, I suppose.
If I were a member of the Olympic Committee, I would be extrememly worried about your ability to finance the next games in 2012, considering the economic problems you will soon be facing. I hope you will not tell the world at the last minute that you cannot get your act together and requests the hospitable Chinese to host the Olympics again in your place. Imagine what a deflation to English ego. I would say it would be comparable to your loss of America and the loss of your empire in the interwar years.
Even if you do scrape up the resources to host a decent games in 2012, please do expect to get your comeuppence. There are many of us Chinese netizens waiting to find every conceivable fault with your planning of the games, not to mention your unadventurous food. The very least you should do is to advice those going to Brtiain for the games to bring their own food, just in case they cannot stand your bland cuisine and run the risk of becoming emaciated in the run-up to their competition.
You may also want to consider advising foreign athletes to ride your subway trains sparingly. Your reluctance and that of the US to condemn the Uigher and Tibetan terrorists may just attract hordes of their murderous brethren to head for your shores in fours years time.
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Oh, poor James
You are treated so Chinese. Whatever you do, Westerner think you are so Chiniese, Chinese think you are so Westerner. To be honest, you did a wonderful job.
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You'll get some reaction from this post.
I agree, you could have picked the mens team gymnastics, that was awesome... but you didn't.
Good on the crowd for getting behind the Ukranians, and good effort from the Chinese team!
The biased judging critics can't go against this one now can they?
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The audience should also receive a medal too in these games. They've been very graceful and polite.
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While James entertaining Chinese bloggers, another BBC journalist is doing some real work. According to Ray, he was arrested for reporting "Free Tibet" protest for 15 minutes. I have a question to ask him. If the Chinese police would not allow free reporting how come they allow journalist film the process in which he was arrested? According to Chinese police 's story Ray was involved in protest before they arrested him. Of course the BBC would not tell that side of the story. Those Chinese policemen certainly need more training. Thet fall into set up traps so easily. Ray will probably get a payrise very soon.
This Olympic is one of the most politicalised Olympic. All parties are jumping up and down with their own adenda. The terrorists are using the time to kill as many as possible. The separatists did all their best to harrase torch relay, put up a violent riot in which they systemically attack any one non tibetan. The Georgia government used the moment the world was watching the opening ceremony launch an assault on the breakaway South Ossetia.
The western media has been very busy as well. They cheered their "hero" who harrased the chinese wheel chaired bound torch bearer claiming what he did as "a slap on China's face". They present to the western public cutted photoes. Used the footage of Nepal police's action as evidence of Chinese police's brutality....... The same thing can be called differently. If it happens to the cold war enemies then it is called independence. If it happens to the west or their little friends then it is called seperatism and killings or even genercide can be justified. There are real journalists there who reported facts. There are real scholars who did their research on the topic and wrote in depth articles. However, they are never given the peak hours to show their work. At the end of the story the majority of the public is feed with what the western governments want. And the media can still boast themself as free media. Having lived in a democratic country for the last ten years, watching the government I voted for ignored globbal warming, took the nation to a war that was based on a lie, democracy is no longer that attractive to me. The image of free media has been eroded little by little over tha last ten years and finally collapsed during the torch relay when the media showing such unbelievable thuggery.
This Olympic is strangled by politics. I found it so hard to enjoyed it without being interrupted. Sorry every one, I feel I have so much to say may be I should post somewhere else because James is giving a rare non political moment.
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Hi James, good post (finally, I have to say). I was hoping you'd take a chance to comment on the Spanish teams racist photo as it seems a good time to reflect on these issues. At the moment it doesn't seem to be covered by the BBC at all. It's not good for these things to be swept under the carpet.
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judging by yesterday's events in the media centre, BOCOG should be awarded the gold in sabre rattling.
from what i can gather, the international press are getting really slammed by the powers that be - but hang in there, james. and let's hope some decent stories escape the police state's bony grasp at the end of this all.
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Oops, my mistake. Sorry, ITN reporter not BBC's.
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James, If I read it correctly, this is one of the few positive postings you have about China. Many thanks.
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James,
I don't know what you heard but I guess the young man who said "I'm so disappointed" said that in Chinese, and the sentence was translated by you. That case, if he said "?????" (Wo tai shiwang le) it's better to be translated as "I'm so frustrated"
frustrate indicates a wish that's not accomplished. Expresses sadness.
disappoint indicates the blame on people or event that should have been better. Expresses light anger.
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2. At 6:26pm on 14 Aug 2008, TaiyuanRen wrote:
We have won load of gold medals and what did you do?
You picked one we lose! How dare you not singing Hymns to Motherland (MINE!) load and clear?
Why are all westerners so anti-Chinese?
-------------------------------
Er...I thought Mr Reynolds had potraited the event in a positive tone, especially the last paragraph. So what's the fuzz about?
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Do all articles on this blog have to have a sarcastic tone (and often demonising tone) when referring to China?
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James:
It is sad that China, lost at a game at the olympics....
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A great thing about the Chinese people (or should I say those that I have encountered) is that they know how to win and lose gracefully. Hopefully anyone losing will not suffer a lose of face for too long but continue on to future victories. By the way, TaiyuanRen, why do you say all westerners are anti-Chinese? Do you know all westerners?
Go China, and a big Go for all other countries competing.
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James, please dont use China, you need to use China communist party government. If you keep mentioning China, people will think Chinese ethinics are as mean as them. They are just a party, and they are always governing. It's not China's fault. China is just the name of the country, it includes people, land and natural resource there...Please dont USE CHINA, USE CHINA COMMUNIST PARTY GOVERNMENT.
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Dear TaiyuanRen,
There is nothing wrong with James choosing the saber. It was an amazing match. I'm Chinese and my whole family was watching at home. I would say it was a great performance regardless of whether China won the gold.
You've miss-read what James was trying to say. I think the blog shows China's grace in defeat, which is a very positive thing.
Please don't be so defensive. That's the kind of attitude that gives China a bad name.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Taiyuanren is clearly not Chinese, see what an abrupt change in attitude towards the Chinese Government he displayed in James' another blog "fillming me, filming you". I wonder if there is also a system of "anti-chinese" propaganda working on this website. I already raised this suspicion in "opening ceremony cool - for some".
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2. At 6:26pm on 14 Aug 2008, TaiyuanRen wrote:
We have won load of gold medals and what did you do?
You picked one we lose! How dare you not singing Hymns to Motherland (MINE!) load and clear?
Why are all westerners so anti-Chinese?
*************
Um, I thought this was a sarcastic post? If not, I'm embarrassed for you. Actually, I'm embarrassed for you either way.
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Tibet for tibetans, is that too hard to understand? Which tibetan has not stood for free tibet? Only Chinese are anti-Tibetans.
There is an ancient pillar in Tibet and China still standing to this day. It is inscribed with the message that Chinese will leave peacefully in China and Tibetans will leave peacefully in Tibet. That was the peace treaty signed hundreds of years ago, and remained true until Mao's troops stormed my country, raped, killed and pillaged it. This still continues to this day. It's time for China to leave Tibet.
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China cant win all the gold medals, it is just impossible. Actually China also lost out in one of the Weight Lifting (traditionally strong sport of China).
But I'm just glad that we made vast improvements. Still remember the first time China sent a solitary athlete to complete in the Olympics (back to the old days where the KMT rules China). And we are head and shoulders above that now.
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vermilionbrush:
Well many congratulations on your 1.3 billion people getting more medals than the UK's 60 million. That's an absolutely staggering achievement - you must be so proud. The simple fact is that the UK is substantially ahead of China in medals per capita.
London may well not host as spectacular a games as Beijing. And the main reason for that is that the UK government, being, as it is, accountable to the electorate (since unlike China, the UK is a democracy) can't justify spending such a ludicrous amount of public money on the games as China has. There are still huge problems of poverty in China even now (something China's all to happy to draw people's attention to whenever they're pressed to reduce CO2 emmissions), and were the Chinese government democratically elected and accountable to the population with regards its spending, there would be a public outcry at the expense that has gone on the Beijing games. Could part of the £22 billion not have been better spent on helping some of China's poor? I'm glad that I live in a country where although we may not host the most spectacular Olympics, at least our government can't throw away ridiculous money on projects aimed at furthering its own prestige when the money could be better spent elsewhere.
Just so that you're not getting too delusional about the relative state of the economies of China and Britain: yes, China's is expanding while Britain's is stagnating, but you seem to have forgotten the different points they're starting from. Chinese GDP per person, no matter how it's assessed, is still tiny in comparison to Britain's. And it's not going to come close for at least another 50 years. Only a couple of years ago did the size of China's overall economy overtake Britain's - and China has 1.3 billion people to Britain's 60 million!
Finally, do I detect a certain desire on your part to see London bombed in 2012?? If so then I'd take a good look yourself and consider what kind of a human being you are.
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I don't get it. What do you wanna express? the bad chinese attitude towards their lose? the audience unfamiliar with fencing? or what?
I don't know, I just sense it is very weird cause you don't mean to praise the chinese, but politely did it so. So next time, would u please make it clear? Even it's negative, it's better than vagueness.
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My dear elderino10,
you congratulate yourself for not spending "ludicrous" amount of money on the Olympics. Are you not being a bit premature on the question of throwing money away. As I understand it, your country's banks are heavily trapped in the American sub-prime crisis. You know, the American investment gurus (also known as conmen) are very good in the art of packaging junk and selling them as investments. In this particular case, they have done a very good job of rebundling their bad home mortgages and selling them as securities to the rest of the world. Your banks, again as I understand it, heavily bought into them. Do you think this is a function of your close relationship with America? I certainly think so. It is evident not only in the way your media and those of America have covered the Beijing Olympics, but also the way you sent your young men to an early grave by having them accompany the Americans into Iraq in serach of the illusive weapons of mass destruction. your former prime minster, Tony Blair, was described as a poodle of George Bush. Is that akin to the late Chairman Mao Zedong's description of countries blindly allied to the US as running dogs?
I glad that you wish to talk of starting point. While it is true that China's GDP per capita is low compared to Britain, surely you will not deny that its GDP as a whole has passed that of your country. I like to talk of starting point of my own too. How long has Britain been in this game of modern economic development as compared to China? How much of this British development was based on acquisition and exploitation of overseas colonies, as compared to China's development being hampered by colonialism, of which Britain was a prime culprit?
You say it will take China 50 years to catch up with Britain in GDP. I think you are being rather conservative. I am sure many the likes of you never thought that China would come this far in the last 30 years when Mr Deng Xiaoping opened China's doors to the world. Besides your so-called 50 years does not take account adequately of the fact the the process could be hastened by China continuing to climb up at a fantastic rate, and Britain slipping down at an equally fantastic rate. Didn't we all hear that Europe, including Britain of course, is slipping into a recession? Isn't it true that your property prices are at their peak, or near peak, and have lots of ways to come down. Insofar as GDP is a function of all goods and services, don't you think that falling property prices is going to be something of a drag?
You rightly pointed out that China has 1.3 billion whereas Britain has only 60 million. Imagine what wonders if half of that 1.3 billion people achieves half of the productivity of Britain would do to the overall Chinese GDP.
But it is not only the economics that I am worried for you. It is the dangerous arrangements in which you are bedded to the Americans, a declining bent on acting as a spoiler. Apart from Iraq, I shudder to think what it would be like if you are dragged into another war by America in, say, Georgia. That poor country should have enjoyed its independence quietly rather than bait the mighty Russians. Can we say that this baiting didn't enjoy the support, and possibly even encouragement, of the West? Do you think the Georgians are somewhat disappointed that, in their darkest days ,what they received from the West are words but very little actual support.
Finally, you say you detect a desire on my part to see a repeat of the London bombing. Actually I am quite indifferent to the world, and whatever limited empathy or sympathy I have, are ratioined for deserving causes and sufferings, such as my fellow Chinese killed by Tibetan and Uigher terrorists. But should the West begin to evince some sympathy for innocent Chinese killed in Lhasa or Kashgar, I believe I will most definitely find room in my heart to sympathise with their dead in Iraq or from any terrorist bombing in London.
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Hi, you stopped posting the Beijing PM10 level. Pls continue, the pictures have not been updated since Aug 14.
Keep up the good work!
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I don't think vermillionbrush is Chinese, his English is too good to be a non-native speaker. I guess he's the kind of people trying to provoke Western netizens to be against China.
And about TaiyuanRen, I think whether he has a understanding problem or he is also provoking here. So obviously this article is telling a positive story about China.
To Ihobdrak, I highly respect your point of view about your people and land, just I don't think it's appropriate to talk here. After all this blog is all about sports and the Olympics.
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Thats as a close as a 1/100 sec finish which Michael Phelps had achieved in the 100m butterfly - no disgrace.......
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vemilionbrush:
I'm not going to defend the Iraq war from a moral point of view and I'm sure the Georgian government deserves a degree of blame for the situation there now.
But on the economics, you display such a lack of perspective that I've got to make a couple of points:
Your concern for the state of Britain's economy is touching - if somewhat ironic since you say you're indifferent to Brits being killed in tube bombings (and by the way, I was sorry to hear about the Chinese police being killed in Xinjiang) - but I think Britain will be just fine thanks. Boom and bust goes in cycles and there may be a recession on the horizon, but there'll be more good times after that.
I said in my original post that China's overall GDP was bigger than the UK's. But you're wildly over-optimistic about how quickly China's likely to even get close to the UK in per capita terms (which is really what matters because it's the indicator of people's living standards). The UK's GDP per capita is 45,000 dollars. China's is 2,500. As the Americans say; "you do the math". Looks like it's gonna take a vastly longer time than you think to catch up, even if 10-11% growth per annum in China continues and there is a lengthy recession in the west (which won't be permanent, as you seem to think it will). And most economists will tell you that 10-11% growth in China isn't going to be sustained in the long term.
And with regard to the point you make about Britain having aligned itself with declining powers, I disagree. Perhaps they're declining in relative terms, but not absolute terms, and again, you underestimate the size of the gap. Let's talk overall GDP if you want. The GDP of the USA is 14 trillion dollars and the GDP of the European Union is 16 trillion dollars. Combine those and you get 30 trillion dollars. China's GDP is 3 trillion. The overall point is that the EU and the US are going to remain world's economic superpowers for at least the majority of the 21st century. I reckon you need to get your head out of the clouds!
Re your point that China's entry into the modern economic world has come much later than Britain's, I don't disagree, but I don't know why you bring that point up because it's hardly relevant to the discussion. In any case, surely the overwhelming majority of the fault for it lies with China itself for turning in on itself from the 15th century.
And although this is just conjecture, perhaps China would have begun its economic transformation a bit earlier had its economy been run along capitalist lines since 1949 rather than since the 1980s. Perhaps had that been the case, people in mainland China would now have the same kind of GDP per capita that people in Taiwan enjoy.
Anyway, let's hope the west and China have a harmonious and symbiotic relationship from here on in. "Gong xi fa cai" to both.
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Thanks James for your close observation and kind comments. It's something that an overseas Chinese would love to see and hear...
I can see from your posts that you understand more and more about China (not necessarily become more Chinese).
I believe it's the same for any people living in a foreign country. I only came to understand this nation and her people when I live here, breathe here and being with the people here.
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James:
how could china losed at sabre fencing! it is sad, that they did...
--Dennis Junior--
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