Queuing Day
Today is Queuing Day. (Slogan: "It's civilized to queue, it's glorious to be polite.")
On the 11th of each month, Beijing celebrates - or perhaps enforces - a city-wide Queuing Day. It's part of a campaign to promote manners in the run-up to the Olympics.
"The problem of unbecoming behavior in Beijing's social life should be resolved through the combined effect of the rule of law and moral education. Such long-time bad habits as 'Beijing-style name-calling', casual spitting, and littering should be basically eliminated before 2005" -aticle V (Urban Civility),section III (Courteous Citizens) of the Beijing Olympics Action Plan
The 11th was chosen for Queuing Day because the digits set the example the city should follow - the second '1' queues up patiently behind the first '1'. (By comparison, the 22nd is Give Up Your Seat Day - presumably because the '2' looks like a person sitting down.)
A little while ago I decided to test out the success of the queuing campaign - by queue jumping and seeing what would happen to me (I found this excruciating - since I am normally a queuing fundamentalist).
I went to a Beijing subway station. Queue monitors pointed people towards various lines on the platform. There were groups of people queuing up reasonably well (it wasn't a strict one-behind-the-other queue, more of a kind of ordered clump).
I walked straight past everybody, and stood in front. Nobody behind me said anything. I felt horrific. A few seconds later, a queuing monitor came up to me and politely asked me to get to the back of the line.
I then tried a new tactic - guerrilla queue-jumping place by place. I decided to start off at the back and get past people one by one.
"Can I go in front of you?" I asked one man.
"Why?" he asked.
"Because I just want to get ahead."
"That would be meaningless," he replied. And he held his ground.
The queue stayed in place. But the problem was this - as soon as the subway train arrived, the queue collapsed and everyone gathered around the doors to see who could get on first.
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I took train everyday from Warrington to Machester. This is a busy line you can imagine. With only two carriages at the peak time, you can imagine what will happen. There is no queue, no English gentlemen behaviour, no lady first. Simply if you are strong, you are quick, you will get on the train first and you will not be left behind waiting for the next train which will come after at least half an hour if it is delayed luckly!
Simple rule is: if you get a lot people, whatever you are Chinese or English, queue does not work, wherever it is in China or England.
James perhaps should tell English how to learn the better public trasportation service from China.
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James,
I like this article. It is a good example to let readers know what China like. If you interview more local people there and let us know the responses of Chinese citizens on all your topics, your articles will be realistic. It is boring to read a media article including no local voices.
Enjoy your stay in China until you feel China and UK are equal.
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I take the train from Canary Wharf station every day and it's the same situation in China. All the English people pretend to queue for the trains and once the doors open, everyone piles on and not bother to let people that's already on the train for them to get off first.
So it's not just the Chinese people, the English people do the same. Also it's pretty much the same through out Europe.
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James. They are not queu monitors. They are crowd control people. They are volunteers. They also help with traffic police. They have been there for many years. Not only in BeiJing but also other cities.
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I'm British but lived in Tianjin (near Beijing) for 2 years and I can confirm there was no hint of queues whilst living there.
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I feel that any article you publish will attract criticism from your Chinese readers - no matter how trivial.
Up until now, the Chinese had no idea how western countries viewed them. They probably felt that westerners thought of China as a peaceful country which is what all Chinese are taught about their own country. It must be very hard for them to take what people really think about China so they are very defensive about anything you write.
However, the Chinese should celebrate the fact that they are now allowed to read the foreign press and discover for themselves something about the world.
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Queing through out the world is a supply and demand kind of situation. Queing is an important social behavior for the protection of the young, the old and the handicapped. In Japan, the land of politeness, passengers still push forward to get in commuter trains. China's massive population in her inner citird makes it impossible for volunteer compliance. Then again, bad habits die hard. I live in Boston, Massachusettes, US. On occassion a relatively new immigrant would jump the line even though the line is not long. Chinese are basically law abiding as long as a policeman is on duty. I am confident the que will work during the Olympics. After that is anybody's guess.
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It is an interesting topic.
I guess it is something to do with supply-demand and social behaviour.
People here in England sometimes don't queue either, but not to the degree that you will typically experience in China. Some commentors mentioned Japan. I was there several times. Morning communiting was always horrific (too many people), but people tends to queue up properly (maybe not always a strict 1-line queue).
I think the eduaction and queuing forcement will help. Eventually people's behaviour will change, but it may take long time.
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It is true queueing is not so popular in China. I feel English are more patient, they can queue for hours for a bargain in front of stores that I can never do: I just walk away from Asda if I find there are too many people inside.
But one thing is better than the UK, people tend to give up seats to elders and pregnant women, in the UK, people only give up seats to the elders who are very old(don't expect anyone give you seat if you are not 70-80 years old), and very preganant(something like 6 months?). Britsh give up seats to those elders or preganant women who really can not stand.
In China, expecially in Beijing where I used to live in, people give up seats to younger elders, and less preganant women. My mother was only 58 years old, and never needed to think about there's no seats on buses.
Overall British are better behaved, this is also something to do with economical development, if you are poor and not educarted, you don't care about anything and anyone else.
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Sometimes I find annoying the "politeness" of British. They queue like they were on the army, but you go out at night and you see adult people screaming, shouting and behaving like mad kids ? I think this applies specially to English.
In fact, despite the way Chinese ignore queuing, I really think they are much more well-mannered.
Oh ... if it matters, I'm Portuguese.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
I wonder why some people would always like to compare what's reported in this blog with the situations in the UK and the rest of the world?
Basically this post is just saying the measures taken by the authorities to enforce queuing in BEIJING don't seem to be very effective.
I think Reynolds has done well in reporting China. It's always interesting to read his posts and how some (Chinese?) people react. It's perhaps a good way for people to understand what some Chinese people expect "unbiased" reporting would be like.
What's happening in Manchester doesn't sound very relevant in this blog's or Reynolds' context?
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James,
Very anecdotal piece of article. From this article, it is safe to assume that Beijinger is much more civilized than the New Yorker when it comes to queuing in the Subway. You should see in NY Subway, no queuing, it just every man and woman for himself or herself.
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laodan,
Being as 'educated' as you, what do you think about britain's image overseas?
not as good as you think
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Queuing Day, Give Up Your Seat Day - interesting concepts, an effort to promote manners. As a Tibetan I applaud the Chinese government on this one if this effort continues even after the Olympics. Such manners should be instilled right from childhood, teachers and parents taking the lead. It should be a "reflex action". With good manners, it is equally important to respect other people's opinion and views. Citizens have a certain duty to their nation but they should also have certain rights. Both duty and rights should go hand in hand. Speaking of rights, there is the freedom of expression, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of assembly etc etc. These are basic rights that every individual living on this planet should enjoy. Does anybody disagree with that?
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where I live they used to queue up for almost everything, on line all day for whatever. but not anymore, less and less people here line up they clump around now.
here in the west, we have laws against spitting, peeing and littering on the streets, so why shouldn't China do the same.
China needs to be more western by spying on the public with street cameras as is done in London.
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one billion people and one hundred trains - queue is no option. it is survival of fittest.
but i think there should be exclusive coaches for women children and elderly.
china should run more trains especially in the olympic days.
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you are right. although I feel a bit shame because I am a chiese, it is the first time that I cannot help laughing after finishing your articles about china. hopefully, we will be better in five years. actually, we are educated like this several five years ago and our teachers always took yours as our examples...
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Yeah, as always, some people seem to take the negative from one of James' articles.
I don't see anything negative in what James is saying. He's just describing what's going on in Beijing. Take from it what you want. It's his job to report on what he see's in China, not compare it to what is going on in the rest of the world. And I don't think he's saying anything remotely negative about China or saying that Western society is better. Where in his article is he trying to imply that?
The Chinese should be happy their government has such a program to improve queue's or politeness. I wish my government here in Canada would do the same. When I go out today, I'll probably be behind 5 cars that don't signal whether they are going left or right. I'll be behind some people who will let the door slam in front of me and not hold it, even though they see me coming right behind them. I'll probably see at least one person go straight through a red light. And I'll likely have someone bump into me, trying to get into a queue before I do. That's not to say Canada is terrible in that respect. Overall I think we hold to the queue's and to politeness fairly well. But I think every country is the same, you have some rude people and some polite people. Some countries may have that more than others, but that's just cultural difference, not a marker on who's better or worse.
I've been to New York, and I personally encountered more rude people there than here. But I also meet many people who were polite and respected queue's. I was in Seoul, Korea last summer and found a number of people jumping queue's, far worse than what I see here. Some people were more rude to my girlfriend and I (she is a Korean adoptee if that tells you anything) than I've encountered my whole life. However, again, I meet some people who were really nice and I look forward to returning to Korea someday. But that doesn't make them more rude or unpolite, just culturally different. If that is the norm culturally than how is that rude? It would only be rude if it goes against the cultural norm. As that is not the cultural norm here in Canada, then I would find that rude or impolite HERE, not necessarily THERE.
Keep it up James. Tell everyone what you see and let them make up there own minds. As is the essence of all journalism. I would like to see more discussions/opinions with/from regular Chinese folks, if it is possible. I look forward to visiting China sometime soon to experience it first hand. And for all bloggers, Chinese or otherwise, keep the comments coming. Let free speech reign, no matter your opinion.
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I notice that some readers on this blog seem to make a big deal out of the nationality of the people who comment here. so, HELLO, I am a Chinese American, if you don't like my comment...ammmm...that's interesting
I like this story, and I hate people who don't line up at ticket counters, restroom, movie theaters..., but to tell you the truth, if you wait everyone at subways in NYC, you are screwed... oh, sorry, off the topic, this has nothing to do with Beijing.
Keep it up, I'd like to read more stories about Beijing... hope soon I could go on a trip to China
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to post 16, i think i might disagree.
The universal human right is adequete amount and quality of food, adequet amount of clean water, clothing, shelter, reasonable social benefits (eg pension), security (and justice), education and a reasonable level of healthcare.
I think only when these are acheived, then you can safely implement your views on 'basic' rights. Because without mine, it will be impossible to build a successful society with all the rights and responsibilities that you mentioned.
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I like James? small interesting social behavior experiment. Queuing, giving-up seats for the elderly and the pregnant women are taught in school starting from the kindergarten in China.
I remember, when I was in middle school, we would queue up to get lunch in the dinging room or cafeteria. There were queuing monitors (a mix of students and faculty members) to inspect the line?I think one critic thing for a queue to stay in place throughout is to expose the queue-jumper. When people try to cut you off, you should complain, shout out loud so that they will be exposed under the public eye. But most people don?t seem to do that. Instead, they cut off others.
When too many people try to ignore the queue, the queue collapses. What?s in people?s mind is not to keep the order, rather it?s I need to get to the window to get my lunch; I need to get to the train to avoid getting to work late...
Ah, divide limited capacity by too many people, you get disorder. To decrease the disorder, we can either increase the capacity and/or decrease the # of people. When there is only one train you have to get on, some people choose to eliminate other people by cutting them off or pushing others out of the way? Some people choose to eliminate themselves by avoiding the rush hour? In China, sometimes or most of the time it seems that it's rush hour all the time.
One queue-jumper perhaps = 2X the # of actual people. So, having some good sense of queuing etiquette also helps decrease the # of people.
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I have seen the same problem in America.
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I wonder why some people would always forbid any mentioning of the situations in the UK and the rest of the world. We cannot discuss China in isolation. China is one nation in the world!
Loadan,
On one hand, the Chinese can celebrate for reading the foreign press.
On the other hand, the West still cannot read anything from China due to their language inability.
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I have noticed gradual improvement in behaviour on public transport in China over the years. Shanghai has a particularly good series of cartoons on its Metro system showing a cartoon pig being corrected for its errors. Generally, levels of government involved in trying to improve peoples' manners, etc should be applauded. Other countries could learn from this.
Enforcing and extended no-smoking areas could do with work though.
Queuing up to buy train tickets and to conduct business at banks has improved A LOT. I remember being at a ticket window being halfway through a sentance and someone would put his arm across me and try to buy his ticket first. It's good that I hardly see that anymore.
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James, from you blog, I found that many Chinese people are quite sensitive. Whenever you wrote anything negative about them; some of the response are quite strong. I believe the Chinese people long to be respected by the global community. Regretfully, many thing done by them and their government, from manners in daily life to government policies towards human right, do not induce much respect. Secondly, I found there is an interesting schoolboy mentality: whenever a schoolboy was being criticized because of his activities; the most common response is "so-and-so in my class did the same thing too..." Whenever anything negative is written about China, the most common response is "So what? The British does that too and the Americans are worse; what about the Japanese...etc.
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James,
Interesting blog topic!
I wish in the United States has a day of Queing in line...
China, is trying to make a good impression to the world before the Olympics....
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As a native Chinese, I find it extremely hard to counter-argue your point. Issues such as queuing are sources of running jokes even amongst Chinese folks!
Having said that, it is unfair of people to single out the Chinese all the time! As an Englishman, you have every right to point fingers because of the general good manners of the English which I admire so much. (As my friend points out, even this is debatable nowadays...) What about people from other corners of the world then?? I have travelled around in Western Europe (supposedly inhabited by peoples with most nobly behaviour), and what I have seen cannot all be called pleasant!
No one is born to queue-jump. Such behaviour can only be induced by a lack of education and discipline. We should focus more on providing absolutely everyone with quality education, instead of casting votes for the Worst-behaved People Award!
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17. At 3:43pm on 11 Jul 2008, objection2it wrote:
here in the west, we have laws against spitting, peeing and littering on the streets, so why shouldn't China do the same.
China needs to be more western by spying on the public with street cameras as is done in London.
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Well, by the smell of many london buses and street corners, I dont think the 'laws' and CCTVs are that effective...-_-lll. Plus in China we have relevent regulations as well, say ppl get a fine or sth if they litter or spit or pee in public places. Just dont work, too many ppl, hard to keep an eye on everyone.
But yes the bad habit of not queueing is a reality in China, I do hope we can queue when waiting in Mcdonalds', banks and many other places (queueing for the tube is too advanced, never even seen it in london and I myself see no point of doing it). I think teaching public manners through education especially among youngsters is very important and much more effective. I found many kids in cities actually have good public manners, and I've seen several times how they were embarrassed by their parents for behaving 'uncivilised' and told them to keep their manners.
Oh one good thing I noticed when I went home last time was that ppl were actually queueing in front of cash counters in the hospital! They never did unless those iron fences were installed!
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James, please read laodan's comment. No 6.
What he thinks is a product of many reports by the media.
If you think our Chinese don't know our own problems and have to read BBC to find out what the truth is, you are so wrong.
Before I came to the UK, I thought everything here was great and everything was worth learning. That's why I came here to study.
I remember once I saw from a Chinese newspaper that people in the UK never cross road when light is red. The author asked Chinese to learn. But when I came to the UK, I was so disappointed.
But western people are told by the media that Chinese don't queue, Chinese spit and etc..... Some people I met even think everywhere in China is polluted and doesn't have blue sky. When they come to China, I hope they will find out things are not that bad.
If you can read Chinese, you will find a lot of people (not only the government) are finding our own problems and coming up solutions. It is not like people in China don't criticize ourselves and don't criticize the government. But people are doing this in a much more realistic and constructive way. Chinese are learning and improving, in almost every aspect. It takes time but I see hopes.
So please help people in the west understand this and know us better. Don't fool them.
I know these words won't have any impact on your reporting style but I understand that you need to find negative and controversial topics to make your reports more attractive.
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Thank you, James, for bringing up subjects like this.
I feel so shame about it, especially when I see how polite and civilized
Japanese people are.
Japan did not have their own written language, much less anything else.
They learned our ancient culture and practice it so well that, today, we
have to learn back from them. It is very sad.
I am confident though, as China develops, it will get better. Until we
catch up with Japanese in this area, China will not be strong, no matter
how rich people become.
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Maybe 2 sounds like "chair" or "seat" in Putonghua? It's Pinyin "yi3" for Chair and "yi6" for Two in Cantonese anyway.
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I think they shoudl try it in France, especially in Paris but then again it could result in open rioting there.
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yo, james, it's so nice to know the queuing day in Beijing. I personally think the reason China people dont yell at you when you cut the line is because they are afraid that they will offend you which will give you a impression that people here are not very friendly.
Actually, I am currently working in HK, Hk people have very good queuing behavior. When I was in U.S.A, a French guy always cut my line, and he doesnt care even though I talked to him........
But you bring us some updated news there, which is very awesome.
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I think it is appropriate than on a thread about queuing day, this will be about the 19th entry in the queue for moderation. I wonder how long it will grow before there is moderation. As things stand....it's already out the door, halfway around the block, and at real risk of encroaching on R,S,T,U, and V's territory.
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Hi, James, I like your reports. My mom and I were in Beijing for 10 days last winter. I remember, back then, people tended to queue up for the train. My mom is in her early 60s. Almost every time someone let her take his/her seat. Perhaps we were lucky.
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Hmm, is James side-lined in the BBC anti-China propaganda?
It seems Hilary Anderson has found Chinese trucks in Sudan; and she has concluded that these are the reason of ?massacres? in Darfur!!!
Obviously this is a politically-arranged news; because the British is angry at China?s support to African self-determination. Of course, she would not consider the British killings in Iraq and Afghanistan ?massacres?.
Lol. Is this the so-called free media of the West?
With an increasing number of young Chinese living in the UK, I can see the light at the end - when BBC and the UK lose all their credibility!
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good.
we, chinese, should reflect more on our behavior.
it is purely rediculous to get behaved and polite for Olympics.
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Frustrated in Beijing? Try South East trains at peak hours in London.
People don't queue. People stand in the doorway, don't move down the carriage to let other people get on and behave aggressively in general. Grown men don't give up their seats to pregnant women, elderly or other people in need.
If you are a little unlucky, you may also get punched by aggressive fellow passengers or knifed by the hoodies.
Bet you can't wait to come home.
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johnxue wrote:
James,
I like this article. It is a good example to let readers know what China like. If you interview more local people there and let us know the responses of Chinese citizens on all your topics, your articles will be realistic. It is boring to read a media article including no local voices.
Enjoy your stay in China until you feel China and UK are equal.
--------------------------------------------
I agree with this johnxue.
Is this an education for the Chinese or an education for Mr Reynolds ?
How often do you hear of Chinese people commenting on the British manners publically ? So what makes Mr Reynolds stand out ? It's so patronising.
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laodan wrote :
I feel that any article you publish will attract criticism from your Chinese readers - no matter how trivial.
Up until now, the Chinese had no idea how western countries viewed them. They probably felt that westerners thought of China as a peaceful country which is what all Chinese are taught about their own country. It must be very hard for them to take what people really think about China so they are very defensive about anything you write.
However, the Chinese should celebrate the fact that they are now allowed to read the foreign press and discover for themselves something about the world.
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Discovery ?
And is this why the Chinese civilisation has lasted for centuries, and the country is one day going to be the largest economy in the world ? What has happened to the "Great" in GB ? Maybe the BBC readers need to look at the trival stuff.
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This immediately reminded me of two women who invariably are the last to arrive at the bus stop but will jump the front of the bus queue every morning. Prompted by their lack of civility, I one day asked if it bothered them to be slighting everyones initiative and effort to be on time so as to secure a seat. If they were worried about having a place, they should simply leave the residence a little earlier.
One of them responded "Whos going to stop me?"
This is when I wish we had our own queue police.
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So, we should all agree that queing is not a measure of politeness or civility. Pushing and shoving to get ahead happens all over the world if a police is not present. It is a supply and demand sort of survival of the fittest jungle mentality. As for Chinese giving up seats to the elderly, it is an extension of their respect for older people as elders of the society. I wish Western societies would give the same honor to their elsders, instead of having British comedy as "waiting for God", and Hollywood's "Grumping old men" etc., media that devalues their senior citizens. The seniors are often characterized as senile, foolish, unreasonable and as rotten old wood to be discarded and ignored by society. I hope Chinese will preserve this good part in their culture and not give in to the temptations of discarding their seniors because they no longer are of value to an economically up-beat society. I live in Boston where I never get a seat in crowded trains. I am female and a senior citizen. I am glad James brought this up. But it should not be viewed as a phoenomenon that only exist in China.
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Yes, the Chinese civilisation has lasted for centuries by invading and colonising other parts of Asia.
When I lived in China I remember old ladies were the worst for pushing in queues and the old guys, the worst for spitting. I think the young ones are all too busy in the internet cafes playing games.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Funny that I didn't even know that there is official queuing day, or giving-your-seat-away day......
Agree that Chinese people should do better at queuing. When I first came back to work in Beijing, it was quite frustrating that there is now queue for taxi in front of the office building (there is, however, a queue in front of the adjacent tower so sometimes people go there to queue up) so you have to grab whatever you can. Queuing up for toilet at public places such as airport, cinemas and tourist sites can also be painful.
But when it comes to giving your seat away to elderlies and pregnant women, I still believe Chinese are better than people in many other countries. We were all taught to do that ever since primary school.
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All I know is my country (India) sucks at queuing... And small-town USA (where I'm currently a student) is a lot better. If the Chinese want to improve, good for them. No point being so patronising about everything, James.
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I had exactly the same subway queuing experience in Beijing, passengers formed neat rows with a gap to allow passengers to alight first. Then the train arrived and all this went to pot.
The only place where I've seen people queue properly for the subway was in Taipei. However, such orderly lines in the stations always made me laugh.
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davidwhite44 wrote:
Yes, the Chinese civilisation has lasted for centuries by invading and colonising other parts of Asia.
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The UK have a clean history of course.
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