Olympic evictions
China's spent about $40bn to make Beijing a more modern city for the Olympic Games. Visitors are meant to be dazzled by the skyscrapers, the new subway lines, and even the newly-planted rows of flowers by the side of the road (especially grown so that they bloom in August, during the Olympics.)
But the Geneva-based Centre on Housing Rights and Evictions says that Beijing's modernisation effort have come at a cost. The Centre charges that 1.5 million people in this city have been evicted from their homes since 2000 in the effort to modernise China's capital. The government in Beijing disputes these figures. It also insists that all evictions have been carried out in accordance with the law and that everyone who's been moved has been offered proper compensation.
On Friday, we reported on the eviction of the Yu family from a street in central Beijing.
Officials had to be very careful with the way they handled the case - this summer, the world's attention is on Beijing. So, for several days, the Yu family was allowed to speak to the press and to campaign openly for more compensation (the police watched from a van parked across the road - but they didn't try to stop the Yus from talking.) When I met Yu Pingjiu a few days ago, she told me that she wasn't scared at all. Finally, she and her family were evicted in the middle of the night - the only time, this summer, when no one was watching. That's how an eviction happens under the Olympic spotlight - it's careful and considered.
But this is what can happen when local officials outside Beijing don't have to worry about Olympic attention (warning -this footage shows violence.)
This footage was filmed in May in a village in the eastern province of Shandong and then posted on the Internet. In case you can't download it, it shows the violent eviction of people from their homes - to make way for apartment blocks. One man, in a red shirt, is on the roof of his family's home. He's punched and kicked in the head. He's taken to hospital, barely conscious.
We've just been to the village in Shandong to find out more. We tracked down the man in the red shirt - his name is Zheng Chengxing. He's still in hospital - his face is still swollen from the kicks and punches he received almost two months ago. He allowed us to film him, but was too scared to be interviewed.
We also went to the remains of the home that he was defending. We knocked on his neighbours' door. They opened a small hatch - but were too nervous to open the door. Their house is also set to be demolished.
"Of course, we're scared," the woman inside told us.
Not every eviction in China is violent. But, outside Beijing, there is no Olympic protection.
I’m 
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Dear James,
"1.5 million people in this city have been evicted"!? Let's make a calculation. 1.5 million is more than 1/10 of the total population in Beijing. If the statement is true, you and I should meet a lot of people who have been evicted. But why no of my fiends, colleagues and neighbors has been evicted? You may like to make a survey by yourself. Just ask some people randomly, to see whether or not they have been evicted. But be careful with the word "evict". I hope you know its exact meaning.
Best wishes,
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Thanks James, you have done a good job in covering a very sensitive problem in modern China.
This problem is complex and requires dealing case by case with constant attention.
In some cases, the "owners" didn't own the property legally they defended for. In a courtyard house in Beijing, the tempetations to smuggle a small extension to the existing accomodation are high as it is hard for the government to detect and cheap in doing so. It creats two major problems:
1. The original courtyard house is being under constant strain and suffering avoidable deterioration. More often, they lost every aspect of architectural beauty.
2. It resulted in a very serious problem -overdensity. Many of these houses became slum of the city which presented many problems as hygiene, crime and fire fighting.
After visiting some of such communities, I don't think the government should do nothing about the it. It certainly needs some one off their hand from the property, especially the one who doesn't actually own the property.
In many cases, the government has an over reaction to the problem that they will clear a whole heck of community away to make way for some very rude and non-sense planning strategy, e.g. making a new shoping center etc. It presented two major problems as well:
1. There is not a very effective way to protest against the new planning decision of the city.
2. There is not a very effective way for the residents to stop the government from knocking out their homes. The government would possibly do everything they can to achieve the goals, sometimes like thugs.
I do have the pride as a Chinese, I do like some decision the government ever made, but sometimes, they are not always right.
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The truth that they can fight for the eviction is the progress of China. The building are all very old building and most of them owned by factory or company that used to provide free housing the the workers. They are given the house for free because they work for the factory. But since most of the factories are moved outside city, specially in large city. These houses are also a target to be rebuild and workers need to move the new house that factory will provide(In some case, the factory is bankrupted, so goverment took over). In western, you dont given free house because you are employee , so the house is ur property. But in China, most of these old house are the property of the company. Company/goverment can decide to move or rebuild. But the fact is, the company/goverment often give them new house further outside city free of charge for them to move in, and also the house is on their name. Its like you been given a new house long ago and now the owner want to use the land and ask u to move to a new house further outside the city and give u plenty money. What will you do? The problem that they dont want to move is just because they are not satisified with the money goverment give them. simple.
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My friend is from Sichuan, she knows lots of people outside of Beijing who were compensated well, and even to the extent that people say they are over compensated. There shouldn't be violent evictions and local governments are to blame. Lets hope the central government can get rid of these guys.
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Do the Europeans think their tyrannical grasp reaches all the way around the world where they can impose their cracked notion of human rights on every human being everywhere? Does every major city older than 100 years have to live forever with miserable broken down ancient crumbling antiquated housing in narrow winding streets built for horse drawn carriages, not trucks and cars because that's what Europe is stuck with? Europe's only real hope for urban renewal died with the end of World War II and the cessatoin of American carpet bombing. The rest of the world is moving on.
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James,
are you seriously believe 1.5 million people has been moved because of the Olympics? Although China is a big country but simple math will tell you that 1.5 million people is about 1/6th of the total population of Beijing. so 1 in 6th people of Beijing had to be evicted!!?? How childish is that? I have hundreds of friends living in Beijing and if I tell them BBC are seriously reporting this figure they would laugh their hats off.
There are three reoccurring themes going on here in your blog and BBC's report on China in general.
1. The economy of China is growing so fast it's unbelievable! there must be untold consequences for such amount of growth. Especially for a "communist" country, this just cannot be ...
2. Communist is evil, it equals to mass murder, it must be inhumane. Therefore the "communist" government must be repressing its people. well, doing evil deeds. Well, if it's not the Chinese they're repressing, then it must be the Tibetans, Taiwanese, Muslims etc etc. And, most importantly, they spend 99% of their everyday job to do this.
3. China is a totalitarian country, it's no democracy, so anything and everything that goes wrong in China is the fault of the Central government, and the fault of the master Hu.
So you go on your business reporting every hole you can possibly dig, label them the consequence of the economical growth, and then assign the blame firmly onto the Chinese government.
Well I think this is extremely childish at best, gross ignorance at worst.
This is not criticism, this is brain washing of your viewers.
There are far more pressing issues out there, there are much more interesting topics you can discuss. And quite frankly, the Chinese government had better spend time and attention to deal with the real challenges than listen to your mumbling.
It's tiresome, really.
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The government is just trying too hard to impress the world. But they fail to acknowledge that they would earn far more respect if they focus more on improving their totalitarian mentality, rather than just building skyscrapers everywhere.
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For Mr. James Reynolds: You article about the Chinese Government evicting people in Beijing is biased and unfair. I had the honour of visiting China around June and July 2008. It is unfair to condemn Beijing and the People's Republic of China for evictions while Banks, Governments, and Mortgage Companies [a great majority] in America have evicted people from their homes for defaulting on their loans or to make room for new buildings. Many peo;le have received their compensation like in America. Before criticizing China, please take a look at the housing crisis in America.
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That's right. Without Olympic protection, they have to be really careful not to get 'suicided' by the local gov (that's what happened to some poor guy in Anhui province) for talking to the press.
Look at ppl's reaction to the 6/28 incident in Guizhou and several riots happened last yr, nobody's on the gov's side. No doubt ppl'll make sure the bullies pay.
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No China-watcher is surprised either that an authoritarian dictatorship can arbitrarily evict 100s of people , or that they beat and bully the poor homeowners who "make some sort of stand".
Nor are we surprised that huge amounts of money have been spent to make flowers grow all along the roads in August ( let's hope the enforced banning of construction work and cars allows the sun to reach the flowers....).
Your most telling remark was about how some Beijing residents who "make a stand" against eviction may be afforded some degree of "protection" due to the ruling clique's effort to ensure "no trouble or brutality in Beijing" during the Olympic Games.
Others , outside Beijing , as you imply , will not be so lucky.And the further from Beijing , the worse it will be.
I think the Beijing Clique may wish to think of the words of His Holiness The Dalai Lama : "Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive."
I hold out very little hope that the words will mean anything to thugs who evict the elderly from their homes, or imprison innocent people who shout a slogan of freedom, or send so many to the forced labour camps full of ordinary people who had a photo of the Dalai Lama, or .........anybody who stands up and says " I do not like the way things are in this "controlled" and
strict land.
I wonder, James, if your blog could end every article with a quote by His Holiness The Dalai Lama ???
Just joking , James------I have seen replies to your articles and I know that many of the regular contributors who think they rule the world ( instead of living in one of the world's poorer countries) would have apoplectic fits....
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I think this is more to do with the disgusting attitudes of corrupt local officials rather than the current laws within china.
The illegle and corrupt actions of a few cannot be viewed as the actions of the majority.
This is one of the problems with china, the central government can't be every where at the same time, and when the centrol government's attentions are away, then sometimes people use more power than they actually have. This is will eventually change as every part of china becomes more developed and public (ie more visible) so actions can be more easily monitored.
Also james, would you mind following up on the story of the ShanDong man, where is he from, and what actions were taken by the higher up authorities?
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Hi James,
You are able to post the stuff here as you're a BBC reporter.
I hope you're not staying in China for too long, or long enough to become a real China expert, because then you would write better stuff out of your good understanding of the country and its people, and as a result you would probably lose the job at BBC as your articles then would be more than certain not the sort the BBC look are.
The BBC is only happy to publish junk like this one you've posted as it suits the BBC's standard of 'value' and taste, no matter how far off the true it is.
Take care
Tony
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James, please follow this up. It is unbelievable. Almost all officials in local governments are rubbish, I heard this sort of things happened, but this the first time I saw it graphically.
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I have just talked with our former classmate, whose hometown is Weifang, Shandong Province - where the footage was taken. She said this was quite normal a few years ago, and still exists in countryside.
My hometown is in countryside of central China, and my parnts, brothers are still in there, this has never happened to them. One reason I thought is because my hometown is still under developed, and no factories etc have been built, and no need for land.
I think the high rank officials like PM and President are very good, but the lower, local officials are completely corrupted.
James, please follow this up, I googled and found there were quite a lot reports on this in Chinese website, presumebly the offenders should be punished.
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Reports like this smell like trying to tell the whole world how Chinese citizens' "human rights" are abused by the government. The government is so bad.
Trivial things like these should be taken care of by the country's law. Please tell us why so many people got the compensation and moved on, except the Yu family. How much did they ask from the government? Is it a reasonable demand, or are they taking the opportunity to blackmail the government to give them unreasonable sum of money? How the government handle this? Did any official commit any crime? If they did, what did they get for punishment? Or
they committed the crime and got away? Did the "victim" go to the court? Did they appeal? What happen later? If you want to report these
kind of stuff, please give more details, and followup.
A bunch of ordinary people beat up somebody. Did they commit crimes, how did the Chinese court handle this? Often I saw on TV a group of American cops were severely beating a black guy. Without knowing the details I wouldn't jump into the conclusion. I believe the law will take care of that, if the cops did anything wrong.
I hope you would write more details and followup on this, otherwise,
people will take it as propaganda, and question your true motive.
Young students like those gathered in TienAnMen square in 89 can easily believe what you want them to believe. For more mature people who live overseas, they would suspect your intention.
Again, I am a Chinese (not a Chinese citizen), never lived in the Mainland. There's no reason for me to defend the mainland government.
I am just interested in the truth. And, I believe you can provide the truth,
if you want to. Thank you, James.
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The Chinese as a whole have a great distrust of authority. Since Imperial says the "lau bai-sing" viewed the appointed officials in the provincial "yamen" with suspicion and that is why they submitted petitions for justice directly to the Emperor. The same system is still in use now --- petitions for justice are submitted in Beijing.
A common saying was "good iron is not made into nails" --- referring to good men not wanting not to serve in the army and in law enforcement ! Apparently the saying still applies --- the law enforcement in China still employs "thugs"! So where does law enforcement stand in China. The clear answer from all the reports I have read is --- there is no justice for the "lau bai-sing" !!!!
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Dear James,
I would strongly suggest that you report the case in Shandong to the Central Commission for Discipline Inspection of the Communist Party of China, which is suppose to investigate this kind of misconduct of the party members. Just see what they say or do. Let us know the result. Thanks.
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Eminent Domain is what it is in any nation. Just because the 5th Amendment purports to promise no deprivation of property without "due compensation," doesn't mean any victim of condemnation is getting any more than pennies on the dollar when it comes to being "duly compensated" by Uncle Sam.
The only way in which the West is more "sophisticated" is in that being screwed over is done with a smile and the veil of due process, without instinctive physical manifestations, but with nickels and dimes, and volumes of paperwork which gives the apparance of justice. At the end of the day, a sock in the head may well be more bearable or temporary than
(1) being foreclosed upon as a result of the mortgage crisis which was caused by bad government and poor fiscal policy, an attitude of loan loan loan, buy buy buy, spend spend spend ... fostered by a government now in over its head and looking at recession or worse
(2) being gentrified and priced out of your home as occurs in the US on a regular basis (as Whites move in, prices raise, and the minorities are priced out), which access to decent education directly correlated to local property values and that directly correlated to race, it's little wonder why even Bush got to be a Yalie
BOTTOM LINE: In China, it is what it is. Everyone knows it, and it's getting better, but local corruption and wrongs are clearly still problems, it's not hiding, it's there.
In the West, the entire system is set up in a way in which deprivations are just as severe if not more so, except that it's all so covert, institutionalized, shield by a thick veil of due process and legitimacy, when at the end of the day, everyone knows that the American Dream has long been dead for many, and that the wealthy continue to get wealthier because the system is simply set up that way.
YOU TELL ME WHICH IS WORSE ...
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Dear James,
Since I live in China, I read your blog every day, and I wonder when you are going to mention the 10,000 'official' executions a year? At the scale of Britain it is like getting rid of a small village each year. Even Daily Mail reader would be schocked by this figure, wouldn't they?
Is it your reserved topic for the day of the opening of the olympics? Or is it the 50 million casualties of the Mao regime(which Chinese people refer to as his 'mistakes') from which many of today's CCP leaders were already part of?
Thanks for mentioning the jailed lawyers and activists last week.
More on this, please.
E
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I am of course saddened by the pictures showed in the YOUTUDE. I hope those 'officers' together with their superiors are made to be accountable.
China throughout history did not practise DEMOCRACY and HUMAN RIGHT. Since the WEST has roughly 250 years of practice in these spheres, should not the WEST be more patient to allow China to evolve in her own pace?
I heard a lot of arrogant twaddles from Amnesty International and the likes expressing that China human right record has gone backward contrary to the promises given for holding the Olympics. Admittedly, the standard is not quite up to level practised by the WEST, but it is progressing nonetheless. I could back this up with my own personal experiences while travelling around China and going into different websites. Not all of them are under Chinese government control. Some of them are run by the Western folks. It is good that the feedbacks and criticism are offered. Do not expect changes to the good happen overnight though. I could also easily contested that China becomes more defensive because of the offensive stunts taken by the West and her cohorts.
Judging by the laws passed by China that the tenure of the political leadership is going to be limited to two 5-year periods, the largely peaceful transition of powers to the next generation, the opportunities and experiences offered to these apprentices before they take over, I think China has found their own unique solution to the succession problem. It cut off the random nature thrown up by the democratic elections, assuming that those elections are carried out fair and square.
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Disputes like that should have a complex story behind it. They cannot
be that simple. Western media just love to hate the Chinese government, because they don't kowtow to the Western powers. Like 'rubber stamp' at UN. My observation for decades tells me that.
This kind of story reads very tabloid, and it is super good propaganda materials. Fa-Lung-Gong and Dalai people love it. But it never convince me anything. Incidents similar to that
could happen everyday in countries all over the world.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
James, why no mention (e.g. with interviews) of those Chinese who have been moved who were happy to do so for the Olympics. I'm sure many of those exist. Whilst I comdemn the violence perpreted in this article, you have to present both sides of a story.
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I believe the chinese figure 6000 only includes the residents evicted due to the construction of Olympic Venues. The 1.5 million figure includes evictions all over Beijing, for subway construction, the new airport, new roads(which Beijing is urgently needed due to its trouble traffic condition),etc. And most of those houses will not survive during an earthquake due to poor building safety quality. Many of them don't even have running water, sewage system and winter heating system. Since china has half of world's cranes in operation, there is no suprise that the world's most evictions happen in China. And I believe many of those evictions although unfortunate and regratable, but nessarary. Meanwhile, I strongly condamn the violence eviction such as the one happened in Shandong. Those local officials don't even have the most basic human conscience and only care about money. Those people should be brought to justice. Unfortunately that's how the chinese business works currently all over the country. If a developer wants to invest in building a new condo, he/she has to bride the local officials for approval and then they can start to make money together. The only people that misses this big feast of money is the poor who are most vulnerable and have no connections, no power(and even no rights). Only Few, (in this case nobody) in the community will help those poor since they themselves are either too busy in making friends with the powerfuls to make money, or do have sympathy over the poor people while considering them sympathatic and believe there is nothing he/she can do to help. This impassiveness is the direct result of defects rooted deep in chinese culture( which becomes even deeper after communist seizure power). To solve this issue, we need independent courthouse and independent police force to reinforce the jurisdiction. I believe there is a loooong way to go before we can achieve these goals in china where too many complicated interests interweaved.
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All due respect! Most of the Olympics games there have been Evictions of people from there homes...
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they evicted all of sydney city's homeless before the 2000 games, and they did the same thing before the recent melbourne commonwealth games. (can you evict someone who's homeless? you know what i mean.) they put them all up in hotel rooms for the duration of the games. some local lefties were up in arms and called it 'urban cleansing' - and they were probably right, seeing as all these guys ended up getting hot showers. i think it's fair to say the phrase is better reserved for situations like this.
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Outside Beijing, there is no Olympic protection.
It seems that Olympic is appearing like a saviour who protects the victims from the hands of someone brute and lawless.
It is hard to believe that people evicted are simply kicked out of their houses, which are razed down without being based on any legal ground with proper compensation. CHINA IS AS CIVILISED A NATION AS THE US OR the UK IS.
Simplying going for one aspect of an issue or episode and accusing someone of being violent is not a sufficiently substantiated charge.
As for the eviction, the Chinese government has a policy of compensation reasonably suitable to all the persons affected.
Sometimes people compels the authorites and leave no choice but to use some means of violence. So somebody is injured and is in hopital does not reveal the fact that it is solely the Chinese government who is to blame for.
So a sorts of comprehensive research is needed to be conducted, in order to make the concerned report on the issue unbiased.
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It is somewhat annoying to wait for so long to read the comments. It still says "This comment is awaiting moderation" for all comments even those that were posted two days ago. I wonder if this process can be streamlined to reduce the time between when a comment is posted and when it appears on your site.
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This type of bullying behaviour is absolutely disgusting and if that is the way the Chinese government treat their own people, it is not surprising that they treat their minority populations such as the Tibetan people living in Tibet, in an even more disgusting manner.
To show your support for the Tibetan Cause please follow the following link...
http://www.for-the-people-of-tibet.net/
We must be careful however when viewing images, such as this eviction, not to demonise the Chinese government or the Chinese people.
The Chinese are beautiful people and their culture is likewise beautiful. The Chinese government itself is not 100% bad, it has come a long way since the cultural revolution and is still in the process of change.
Certainly a number of the policies/actions of the Chinese Government break international human rights laws, but so do the policies/actions of many Western Governments.
Sadly even such incidents of individual bullying and hooliganism are common throughout the world...they are not unique to China.
Nevertheless, I am glad that the international community is now becomming more aware of such human rights abuses...however it's not enough just to read about these events and be horrrified.
If you are truly outraged then be active and do something about it, lobby your governmnet or get involved in human rights movements. Certainly in terms of China there is no time like the present.
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James, how is the air quality in Beijing now? I bet since the Chinese government put measures on traffics, suspend building works and stopped polluting factories from operation air quality has improved dramatically, I know because on ITV news they show sunny Beijing with clear blue sky. So the BBC and yourself has got it wrong again, please admit it! Or is this no longer news worthy and you look for other cracks to drum up other sensationalist news?
BTW didnt the BBC always highlights concerns of human right groups about the Chinese government drumming up terrorist threats in the run up of the Olympics as a reason for reigning in on the Uighars when all along the government said the attack from separatist was very real. Well the two bus bombings that killed and maimed over a dozen people in Yunnan today proved the Chinese government is 100% correct and that the BBC should stop undermining the Chinese authority by giving a voice to these anti China groups.
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Good supervision on Chinese government accountability, especially on the local government. BBC China is currently more like a Chinese newspaper to disclose the dark side of local Chinese goverenment, but I believe your report will get much more attention and help the local government behave well.
James, please carry on following this reporting route. This will help you win Chinese respect. Forget queuing, Tibet, Nationalism etc, those are nonsense and nobody in China will agree with you.
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Dear Mr James Reynolds,
Your description about the film footage shown is distorting the truth. In the little description on the right of the you-tube video, it says that it is actually a footage of the Triads forcing citizens out of their homes, not the Chinese government. I'm sure gang violence is not a problem which occurs only in China. People nowadays have a little bit too much imagination, and a little bit too less knowledge of what is actually going on.
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longtime lurker, first time poster here.
It's funny how, regardless of the subject or how far James Reynolds goes to clarify his position/cite his sources, we always end up getting 3 types of comments on this board.
1. the people who shake their fists at the misguided/inhumane Chinese government and their heads at the unfortunate, oppressed citizens of China.
2. the faction who rabidly defend the CCP and accuse Reynolds of being an unfair reporter, citing things he may or may not actually said.
3. the rare commentors who actually bother to look at both sides of the coin and make an intelligent, nuanced observation that, rather than being simply inflammatory or accusatory, actually adds to the discussion.
Why can't we have more of #3?
(and, as for the actual topic at hand: evictions are a complex issue. As LiangSKY said, often the government do have legal ownership of the house and has the right to rehouse people. Having said that, no one should be beaten out of their house, regardless of whether or not they own it. The real issue here is what is considered fair compensation, and it's something that is difficult to figure out unless you have intimate knowledge of the situation. While there is definitely a degree of unfairness going on at different levels of government, it's probably not something that's going to be clarified by a study based out of Geneva. Many local Chinese ppl are also acutely sensitive to and aware of this issue, and my thought is that they would be the best ones to work this thing out.)
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Those who talk about bias should perhaps consider the conditions in which domestic journalists in China are forced to work. James said that the Geneva-based Centre on Housing Rights and Evictions "charges that 1.5 million people in this city have been evicted from their homes since 2000 in the effort to modernise China's capital." He then goes on to say "The government in Beijing disputes these figures."
So, an accusation by one party is quoted, followed by the position of the party being accused. Perceived loss of face can create quite a shrill reaction it seems.
Comparing land seizures that a government does because it wants to build something else to repossessions due to a homeowner defaulting on a mortgage is also absurd.
It may appear that the central government is doing well - the problem is local officials who behave like bullies. The political system allows this to happen and the Chinese people deserve better. This is what really matters - not angry relativism in response to a balanced report that quotes all sides.
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I agree with #7 on this one.
The government should focus on its own people rather than trying hard to impress the world. I really don't think the Olympics is that serious a deal.
But then again there's the conflict between the central and local government. It's been a big and complex problem since forever...
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James, keep reporting as the Chinese gov't may close down all foreign media to reporting except the Games as the day is getting closer.
Eviction of residents from hu-tongs - some bloggers claim these houses belonged to companies and factories and were given to their workers free of charge. Let me remind these forgetful Chinese bloggers that these old homes had belonged to some residents as ancestral homes for generations until the Communists took over. It is possible that some residents are the original owners of ancestral properties.
In their haste on getting Beijing ready for the Olympics, the Chinese gov't behaves like adult children on the eve of their parents arriving for a visit, cleaning their apartments by shoving all their messes under the bed and into the closet. The gov't evicted enmass without providing any recourse for negotiation. Old and handicapped people who have special needs are the most affected. They are less able in rebuilding their social connections in the neighborhood, and less able to deal with change because of the deterioration of their mental and physical state. All these bloggers from China are young people born after the opening of China to the West and they see endless possibilities in the free wheeling capitolist Chinese society. It is not surprising that they are 100+% behind their government's development strategies, however brutal. (Beijing is not the only case in point. Villagers were evicted for the building of the 3-gorges dam the same hastily). A good government is one that takes all its citizens' welfare into consideration in its governance. In this instance the Chinese government has failed to consult with the villagers and the poor people of inner cities before eviction; It has ruled by decree as Emperors of the past would, and has failed to consider the social and phsycological consequence of these people from their forced eviction. China's educated mass from abroad and home, so far has not spoken up enough on this human rights issue in preferance to not risking their own prosperity.
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My grandma’s family had a house, which was built well over 100 years old ago, so those who are defending land robberies do not tell me it was not our house. My grandma was tortured because of this very house during the land reform (kneeling on the broken glass was the least of her suffering). And then a few years back, her handicapped brother, who was living in the house, was informed by the town officials, the town was going to take possession of the house and there was no compensation. In a panic, this half brother got in touch with the relatives living in the cities, who tried their best to negotiate with the town officials, and only to be told, the house could be saved if a certain amount of US dollars were paid for it. Seeing that it could only be a bottomless hole, we refused. My grandma’s house was demolished, her half brother and family were evicted, the land he depended on living was gone. He lived for a long time after that in a house without doors and windows. The doors and windows were put in, only after his children started to earn money.
Life could be very hash for Chinese farmers. For years, policies were designed to bound them on their land, even now they can work in the cities as migrant workers, but they still subject to these “lesser treatment”. One of my uncle’s employees, who was an Engineer, was arrested, simplify because he dressed like a farmer and the police thought he didn’t have a right in the city. I am surprise James has not had a story about checking IDs and evicting outsiders, due to the Olympic.
James, I would like to point out something I am sure you are well aware of. There are always beneficiaries of government polices, those will be the loudest against criticize. Take a guess, who these people, whose parents have enough money to send them to ridiculous expensive British schools, will speak for?
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post 15 from tclim38.
Those are very valid questions that you have posed. But do you really expect to get to the bottom of the truth. Anything you say against the government is labelled as "subversion" and is punishable. Hu Jia a prominent Chinese activist was arrested last year for talking to foriegn reporters - http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/h/hu_jia/index.html
And there are so many other cases. I can easily conclude that there are other cases that no body would know - why ? Because this is a government that with its brutal power can wipe out the history of Tiananmen Square. This is a government which has a heavy influence on the media specially for political views - the major news sources such as the CCTV, People's daily, Xinhua are agencies of the government. Anybody who critisizes the government policy will be arrested. Just recently a Chinese citizen who questioned the government's handling of the earthquake was arrested. Such a control on freedom of speech and expression has silenced the majority of Chinese from expressing their views.
You talk about "going to court". I saw news about the parents of earthquake victims going to court in the beginning. Now there is no news about it. This is no small matter when the majority of the buildings affected by the earthquake are schools. It is such a sad situation. There should be a thorough investigation. These are young, innocent victims - for god's sake? Media should be independent, legal systems should be fair.
A law saying that critisizing the government is "illegal" is total nonsense.
"A group of American cops were severely beating" --- that is true. I saw that in the news too. People are allowed to talk about. People can criticize the handling of the cases. Are there problems? Of course, there are problems. There are racial tensions. America is a country of immigrants, people from all over the world. But the good thing is that you can express your views. Most of the laws are a result of the expression from the citizens of the country and not from a bunch of corrupted politicians.
No country is perfect, every country or nation has problems whether social or political. But when people cannot have a voice then its a huge problem. The government should represent the people. When you have a government with the same group of people, its a problem again.
The list just goes on and on. Anyway I'll stop here. Hope I've been clear of why it is difficult to get answers to your questions.
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post 19 Godasse
What do you mean by "'10,000 official' executions a year"? Are you serious? If this is true and you know about it, you have to provide more details. This government is just sick. How long can this go on? Chinese folks have suffered for so long (at least the majority of them).
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post 20 growingwhordcitizen
Hey - you mention some websites in China. which ones are they? are there political discussions on them? can you provide the list?
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Re. #3, boarroseani on messages waiting for moderation, taking over days days, too long and frustrating a wait:
Here is where freedom of speech is not absolotely. Britain has a very stringent control of speech over the internet, where as U.S. is truly a land of free speech. The blogs in U.S. will not remove an offensive message unless other bloggers complain. It is an honor system policed by fellow bloggers. U.S. citizens can openly criticize anyone, anything. A hate speech does not become a crime until someone gets seriously hurt by it. So, Britain is not exactly a totally free society. Freedom is relative depending on thesensitivities of the people. China is better than some tyranical societies like Iran, Cuba, Saudi Arabia; but has a ways to go to allow criticisms of the government as compared to other democratic societies of the world. In that light, I agree this blog is frustating to use as it cuts up the flow of opinions.
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at #35
I have to disagree there. Just because people disagree with James doesn't necessarily have to make them Chinese government supporters, nor is everything Jame writes the absolute bible truth. In fact I'd say that a lot of James' blogging to date has actually been of poor factual quality with a large self biased sway.
Post his blog on "National sentiment" however, where he's made some attempt at understanding why so many Chinese have been criticizing him (whilst trying to put the onus of blame on a supposedly sensitive society), I've noticed an improvement in his blogs.
Just don't assume that because you share his views and are critical of the Chinese government that people in China are abused and people who criticize this blog are reactionary and are government supporters.
P.s. I hope to see more fair reporting as per the recent blogs, even if it's on prickly subjects as this so long as it's done sensitively. Which means although it's a blog, it might be best to distance ones views from the subject rather than casting judgement.
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James,
During my tenure as an expatriate in Beijing in the mid-90's, my local driver explained to me how some of his "phantom" neighbors, in anticipation of future claims for compensation, would simply built some rudimentary sheds or planted some crops on land in his neighborhood just outside the Asian Games Village along the Jingchang Highway. These "residents" probably form part of the 1.5 million evictions mentioned in your report.
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It is certainlly very sad that some local officials in China have such hooligan behavior.
I could not help noticing that the wealthier areas in China also have better governments. Bad/uneducated local officers are deffinitely the main problem China's center government have to deal with for them to succeed in the long run.
However I have also heard stories about local residents bargaining for unbelievable amount for important projects, and holding up these project by years. The most ridiculous one I heard about was 500million rmb for a space to put up equipments for urgently needed electricity supply. The local government have so far offered 50 million rmb but they still couldn't get a deal.
Apparently some developers/ local governments now prefer to use violence (especially local gangs) to evict "unreasonable" residents and wait to be sued and pay a compensation, because it is more efficient and cost effective. However such partnership between the government and local gangsters is definitely not healthy for China to move forward.
I would like to learn how developed countries handle evictions. If a new direct road is badly needed for a city's well-being, or a new building is needed for London's olympics in 2012, but a small number of residents demand a crazy amount of compensation for their relocation, what does the UK gov do?
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China is trying hard to build a modern 21st century society. Quaint is the fraudulent word travel agents use to describe antiquated junk villages, towns, and cities. Those who have to live with quaint are loathe to admit they exist in what can only be called primitive. When you get past the picturesque post card images of those towns and villages all over Europe and get into the buildings themselves, they are hardly more than man made caves. China is moving far ahead of Europe and the Europeans resent it.
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post 20 growingwhordcitizen
Hey - you mention some websites in China. which ones are they? are there political discussions on them? can you provide the list?
--peace_4_all
There is a huge long list.
www.sina.com.cn
www.163.com.cn
www.chinaren.com.cn
www.tianya.com.cn
www.xinhua.com.cn
www.mop.com
www.sohu.com.cn
www.qq.com
..........
Each of these sites are on the top list of alexa and each has huge forum for people to discuss. Not to mentioned any small sites all over the internet and not to mention all the goverment hosted forum. They are all anonymouse and you can post what ever you want. Try there, but hoep you can understand the new chinese online language. Even I cant understand now. :)
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peace_4_all wrote:
post 19 Godasse
What do you mean by "'10,000 official' executions a year"? Are you serious? If this is true and you know about it, you have to provide more details. This government is just sick. How long can this go on? Chinese folks have suffered for so long (at least the majority of them).
----
I hope both of you can understand more about the Chinese legal system. Executions is only can be placed by Supreme People's Court. No local courts can place execution without permission from Supreme People's court. Can they execute 10000 a year? No way. Think about it.. common sense. The Chinese goverment is not great as I know. But its far better in some aspects than other goverment. One simple example, in UK, MPs seems to able to expense money for their home decoration and employ wife/son to work for them as advisor. And they can do it publicly and can reject calls to disclose their expenses. In China, none of these are allowed. I know people will mention curruption, but curruption is a small amount of officials and they are scare to death if someone disclose their crime. They suffer much more than the MPs in UK.
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Before 1980s most Chinese people lived in state owned/company owned housing while farmers in rural area lived in the house they build on state owned land. Home owners were a rare species in cities. China's economy started to take off in early 1980s. The housing boom I believe started in late 1980s.Not only big cities but also small towns are all going through it. Many small towns I never heard of are becoming new cities. If you travel in China you will see construction sites everywhere. I think the current boom is distinctively differrent from estate boom anywhere else in the world because it is a transition from state owned housing to private ownership. A very complicated process.
I have 2 aunts, 2 uncles, and many cousins live in BeiJing. Only one aunt(my mother's sister) enjoyed relatively good housing before 1980. Another aunt and 2 uncles (My father's siblings) lived in HuTong ( old BeiJing style courtyard houses). These 2 uncles shared an old house they inherited from grandfather. The house was about 80 years old at the time. There was no toilet and they had to walk to public toilet in those freezing winter nights. Each family had 2 rooms they used as bedroom, lounge, and kitchen. There was no central heating. A little furnace burning coal was used for heating in winter. In 1986, the government demolished the entire district and built many highrises on the land. My uncles were compensated with two two-bed room apartments each. They would only get one two-bed room apartment each if they lived in State/company owned housing which was the case for my aunt. But please note it that she was compensated with the ownership of the brand new apartment. There were people who were not happy about the compensation. One of my aunt's neighbour built a small house in the middle of the courtyard and demanded compensation. He was not given anything extra for the sigle room structure he built without the company or the local council's approval. Similar things also happened to my father (In Tian Jin). The house had an extension which was built by the company without local council's approval. So the extension part was not compensated.
I am amazed at western media's ability to simplify such complicated process into a simple story" the Chinese government throws people out of their houses without any compensation" and so many clueless westerners would buy it. Last time I visited TianJin I saw a poorly constructed house built on the bank of Hai River right in the middle of the city. I know the area very well there was not such a house before. It was part of a public park. The half demolished house had slogans painted on it. "The brutal government demolished people's house without permission" "This is against human rights". If the person who claims to own the house gets James on the site I bet the story will make it to this blog. Can I build a house next to the opera house and claim to own it? I am pretty sure I would end up in court, get fined, thrown out of the house, and have it demolished by force.
To those who believe the Chinese government is trying to impress the west. You have no idea what China was like before and how much Chinese people have benefit from the current boom. Before 1980s, there were few people enjoyed central heating in north China. A standard 2 bedroom unit was only 40-50 square meters not mention those who live in those one story old buildings of one hundred years old. Very few people own their own home. I am surprised that no one in this forum ask James to provide some statistics. NOW, CHINESE PEOPLE OWN THEIR HOMES AND MUCH, MUCH BETTER HOMES THAN THEIR PREVIOUS PLACES THAT THEY DID NOT OWN. I hereby praise and congratulate Chinese people and their government for their significant improvement in people's housing. To Chinese standard, this is also a significant achievement in human rights. I suggest people move their attention away from BeiJing and Olympic venues, look at other cities and small towns' achievement.
I do believe there are corruptions and illegal occupation of land without proper compensations. The central government has strived to pass new laws to regulate the development. China is so big and in small places where law reinforcement is weak bad things do happen. Famous movie star Liu Xiao Qing was involved in a case where farmers' land was illegally used for constructions without compensation. Once the case made it to the court, she was locked up in jail for years, fined, and lost her carrer as a price. Farmers were all compensated in the case. Not enough? How many corrupted officials face firing squad every year? Still not enough? Then I think the only answer is to build law and order. Reinforce central government's policy and laws into every corner of the country. That will take time.
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Hi,James.
Eviction is such a hot topic among the current Chinese popular blogs.It can take you months or even years if you are serious at reporting the Eviction related stories.But it's better to be done after the Olympia.
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I want to talk about the issue about “the state has the ownership of the houses and land”. PR China was founded in 1949, who has the ownership of the houses and land owned by people before 1949? As to the houses built after 1949, my parents earned about 48RMB per month in 70s, with 2:1 exchange rate, it would be $24 per month. With such lowball salary, State offered them housing and health care. Fast forward to 90s, without much of saving, due to years’ low wage, they did not have the claim to the house and their health care was in jeopardy. What did they have left? Weren’t housing, health care and pension supposed to be part of their pay? Sure, they were compensated when they were told to move, but they also did not have a choice. The neighbors who refused to move lived in a building without windows in the frigid winter. Yes, there are probably people who just want more compensation, but could it not be some of us want to keep the house where we grew up in, or simply want to die in a house we lived forever?
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to No. 49, capital punishment is indeed a big problem in China. Online source says, in 2005, about 3900 death sentences, in which about 1700 actual executions. Much more than other countries. Not as many as 10,000 though.
Of course China is trying to improve. In about 1983, central government gave the sentencing and approval power to provincial supreme courts. As Deng Xiaopeng believed it was an important transitional time and needed to get tough on crime. But in 2004 the people's supreme court drew back such power.
So "No local courts can place execution without permission from People's Supreme court." became true only fairly recently.
That's what I've heard.
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To SheriffCartman, #44
Hi there--I guess sarcasm really doesn't come out well in a journal comment. I am by no means agreeing with the first type of people who think all Chinese people are "beautiful and oppressed," nor do I take Reynold's word as the bible. In fact, I often find myself upset by the types of coverage that's found here. Still, it's a blog. Gosh darn it, it's HIS blog--and blogs by definition reflect the views of the people who write them, not the absolute, objective truth (whatever that may be). Yes, they may be biased one way or another, and these things can and should be identified and discussed in a civilized manner, but it doesn't make sense to make the type of personal attacks that I've sometimes seen here.
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I am unimpressed by the predictable negative report on China. I like it because it makes all Chinese understand the West better. A Chinese girl tells me the following: this UK reporter need go back to London filming all the bloody hooligan fights; and then he reports them as the UK government suppresses the powerless.
For those innocent Chinese who really believe the laughs from people like James – i.e. the West has better human rights than China - just go to Europe and America. You will learn.
BTW, Hu Jia is a good case. Hu Jia is jailed because he received large amount CIA money. His lawyer knows it. Obviously the West never report truth. Westerners have not understanding of the issue. Imagine such biases accumulate for 30 years; you get an extremely biased Westerner.
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Isn't there something called Eminent Domain in the US which has the same effect. The Government has the power to seize a citizen's private property. LA city developments are a good example. Developers will come in to build new and posh flats and the people evicted from it can never afford to live there again.
Think about the recent development in London China Town. Property developer Rosewheel gained approval to create a ‘Chinatown village’, in which Westminster council have agreed to internally renovate buildings in Newport Place and Newport Court, which means that many business would be forced out and they can't come back because of the increased rent.
I fully respect personal property rights. But even in common law countries, personal properties are not 100% protected. May I say that before we point our fingers at someone else, we must ensure that our own house in order.
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post 57 churchgore
I live in America. There is no issues with human rights, religious freedom. In fact I'd say there is too much freedom. If I criticize the government for its invasion of Iraq, I'll not be imprisoned. Media is everywhere and has the freedom to report.
What proof do you have that "Hu Jia recieved large amount of CIA money"?
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The reason I still read your article and blog is all because of reading the comments as well as the opportunity to comment. Like bokaroseani in #30, me too want to complain the extended delaying in showing the comments and I'm very disappointed of BBC.
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To BBC. How did I break the house rules? Only some simple truth agaist Dalai Lama. Did it make you feel uncomfortable? People here talk about censorship in China but the Chinese webs allow people comment with whatever language or idea. There is no moderators there. There are more freedom here at BBC? You do not censor it, you delet it then say "it broke house rules". Why did I receive 2 emails from BBC saying the forum is closed? Is this the way BBC uses to get rid of some unwelcome commentor??
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To tglambert. If your story was true then why did not your family report the case to police? Why did not your family seek justice from local court? Did your family have documents to support the claim? About the engineer arrested because he dressed up like a farm. I do not believe it. Did he do anything illegal? Some people are quite quick to make up a lie to cover up what is shameful, just blame the police.
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China has a long history of destroying its own cultural artifacts, archeological sites. Emperors destroyed scientific inventions, burn books, kill intellectuals. Inventors, scientists were buried alive should they fail to please the Emperor. Each successive generation of rulers were afraid that their court ordered inventions could fall into the hands of their court opponent, and so new understanding of scientific progress were destroyed at the end of the Emperor's rule. China missed the whole of the European industrial era and had remained backwards for the next century because of this tradition, unlike Japan which quickly adopted Western ways and became a world power of colonial intentions that caused its subsequent defeat. During China's Cultural Revolution, a cultural genocide took place at the urging of Mao, enormous amounts of antiques, and archeological sites were trashed by the young guards. Now, Beijing government is in such haste to bring China into the 21st century, it is again ordering destruction of important historical archeological sites for the 3-Gourges Dam, the Olpmics Games, transportation, etc., etc.
Not only are there great sufferings amongst the Chinese who are being displaced, China's history is eraised within the blink of an eye in historical terms.
The Good new is that some newly rich citizens and foreigners are starting to buy up these old homes in Beijing, renovate them and transform them into lovely residences of old and new designs with sensitivity to Chinese esthetic tastes. In Peabody, Massachusettes, U.S.A, an old Chinese home was brought to a museum brick by brick and beam by beam, which was rebuilt authentically as the orginal house was, including some Chinese slogans of the era on its walls are still visible.
To all those Chinese who support your government's policy on eviction, demolition of old architecture in favor of new glass and steel pigeons coops, and if you have to go to a foreign country to see how your ancestors lived, don't blame foreigners for stealing your cultural artifacts. The Europeans had stolen much cultural artifacts from China during their invasion of the Imperial Palace in Beijing after the Opium War, at least the artifacts have been properly preserved in museams for all to see. Would these treasures suffer the same fate of destruction during the Cultural Revolution had they remain in China? This is a big question for Chinese to answer.
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wonderfulchinese, when the town officials were the ones to force people out of the house, take a guess what the local police would do? As the other matter, I dare you conduct an experiment, dress shamble, rumbling around Beijing without an ID at night and see what happens, maybe?
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Dear James: You are part of an international reliable news agency. Since you started reporting news in Beijing in the road to the olympics, you always find a way to find something negative. When you talked about the fireworks you mentioned protests, in anything that China does you find something negative. If you can not report something without being biass do not report anything.
China has worked for years for these games but you always report the negative side.
BBC please do something.
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To tglambert.
I left China when I was 30. I was rebellious and had conducted many experiments in my late teens and early twentys. That is why I speak out against your media when they portray China as a horror place.
You believe "town official force people out of the house" is the general picture of what's goingon in China? I have seen it otherwise. That is why people support their current government.
The problem happens in some rural area is that people have no belives in laws. If you do not even try to seek for justice then whom can you blame when you simply shut up? A matter that should be presented in court can never be solved outside a court. That is true both within and outside China.
I do not really believe your story. What I have seen is those who claimed to own the land or the house were not the legal owner of the land or property. Those people were not compensated.
By the way can you tell me which part of China you come from?
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