Bush at the Olympics
There's one bit of diary news - buried in the last line of a White House press release - that matters a huge amount to China's government:
"The President and Mrs Bush will attend the opening ceremonies of the summer Olympic Games on August 8."
I'll put this in a non-bureaucratic way: the world's most powerful man will attend the most important part of the most important event that Communist China has ever held.
That's a big symbolic victory for China. Since the protests in Tibet in March, human rights campaigners have called on world leaders to boycott the opening ceremony of the Beijing Games.
So far, the leaders of Germany and Canada have decided to stay away. Britain's Prime Minister Gordon Brown has decided to go to the closing ceremony instead. France's President Nicolas Sarkozy has suggested that he'll make his decision based on how much progress has been made in talks between China and representatives of the Dalai Lama (in case he needs any help making up his mind, Chinese newspapers have published a survey saying that the Chinese people don't want him to come.)
President Bush's decision may come as a disappointment to two members of his own political party. This past week two Republican congressmen, Frank R Wolf and Chris Smith came to Beijing to lobby for the release of 734 political prisoners. On 29 June the congressmen were stopped from having dinner with a group of Chinese human rights lawyers. (The Chinese government says that the congressmen overstepped the terms of their visas.)
Congressman Wolf called on President Bush to boycott the opening ceremony of the Olympic Games if the lawyers were not released and if there was no progress on releasing the political prisoners.
Strong words. But their president is coming anyway.
I’m 
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james, bush coming to china is a big trouble for china. think about how much food, water, toys and bodyguards he will bring with him. also how much resources we will have to put up to host him
I'd rather have you there in the VIP box
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There are relatively few issues which divide the US and China. The relationship is complex but it is as much cooperative as it is adversarial. It's not that there are not important problems between the US and China but they are not sufficient to jeopardize the close and growing relationship America has with China. Each has a vital stake in the other's economic well being. These are the larger issues.
Unlike the European powers, Ameica did not colonize China in the 19th century, did not exploit and humiliate China, did not have spheres of influence there. Only during the worst part of the Cold War with the USSR were China and America true enemies. Most Americans should be pleased to see that there may be an easing of tensions between China and Taiwan. The US wants the conflict between them to be resolved peacefully to their mutual satisfaction and benefit. China understands that the US will not stand idly by should it try to conquer Taiwan by military force.
The issues over Tibet are troubling but there are hardly unique. How hypocritical of Europeans to have turned a blind eye to murderous regimes around the world like the one in Saddam Hussein's Iraq which killed over a million of its own people and started two horriffic wars and all while Europe looked the other way as their own citizens made huge personal profits circumventing the UN sanctions now to get on their high horse about Tibet and President Bush celebrating the Olympic games. Furthermore, we cannot expect China to evolve to the expectations of Europe yet given that it was the Europeans themselves which held China back for so long. European colonial exploitation followed by subjugation to a European invented doctrine, Communism are just two of the reasons it will take China longer to adopt what we consider enlightened humanitarian policies. The US government will not sacrifice this relationship or embarrass China in its moment of glory because it has not advanced in this area yet.
Considering that Europeans demand diplomacy instead of confrontation from America in dealing with an implacable enemy Iran which threatens America with its future nuclear weapons, Europeans and the American left have some nerve when America uses diplomacy to engage China in dialogue when China is not an implacable enemy or imminent military threat.
Europeans should understand that as America grows more distant from Europe and its cultural ties, it grows closer to others including China and India. Large numbers of Chinese have come to America to visit, study, and live there. A large and growing number of Chinese Americans have close ties to their families and friends back in China. The same is happening with India. In this way ties between them will grow stronger and American ideas and ideals will inflitrate China and have influence over its future development. Europe's criticisms of America are receding as a faint din to be regarded as a mere annoyance. America is not only the greatest European power, it is also the greatest Pacific rim power as well. And it is a good thing that it stay on good terms with the most populous nation in the world. President Bush is again doing the right thing by going.
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If they do the survey properly they may find that chinese people dont care if any politicians' coming to the game (oh perhaps except PM of Pakistan) as long as the athelets will participate :D
Well, worst of the worst if nobody's coming then many of us have suggested to hold it as a national sports event, though I'm sure the sponsors wont be happy about that -_-lll
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China and USA has a far more complex relationship, both are superpowers with great responsibilties and leadership in the world. Issues like Tibet which in reality is nothing to do with any outside countries are waters off a ducks back. Unlike Sarkozy, France's relations with the world depends on trivial matters, his decision about not comming to the opening ceremony of the Beijing Olympics borders on pathetic political survival to appease a few human right idiots especially his countries economy will suffer should he sour relations with China. Angela Merkel wasnt even invited to the Olympics as punishment for recieving Dalai Lama on a political capacity, BBC should have made that clear. Gordon Brown has alway stated he was attending the closing ceremony many months ago, no point in him going twice in 2 weeks. UK will be represented by the Princess Royal, she is more important then Gordon Brown.
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bleh, China doesn't need axis of hypocrites leaders to come to the ceremony, especially the French.
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James, you sound like... without European leaders coming to the Olympic, China will suffer. (I know quite a few out there love seeing China suffer) You really cracked me up. Isn't Olympic a sporting event?
I believe China wants to host a big party with all the friendly people from all over the world, which is one of the good ways to promote peace and harmony. Don't you think?
I see on TV that Chinese citizens are so excited, looking forward to so many guests coming. Please write more of their excitement, all the good things you see in Beijing, and help make everybody happy, will you? Thanks.
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It is fascinating to see how important some people think they are to our Chinese.
No matter Bush comes or not, Olympic will continue, business between China and American will continue, Tibetan's remain in the Chinese family will continue and so will the Communitist party's rule.
Sarkozy and Brown are just playing at their own country's political stage and are just satisfying some of their own people's appetite.
I am not even bothered to metion those those congressmen, who extended their play stage to our Chinese territory.
Sarkozy, Brown, Bush, those congressmen and even James yourself:
Who do you think you are?
Do you really care about Chinese people's well being?
Do you really care about Chinese people's human rights?
What a joke!
I'd rather trust the communist party than you
Finally, I strongly suggest Sarkozy not to come to China. Olympic is better without you
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China and Russia together are becoming more anti-American.
Is this to appease the Chinese and hence reduce resentment?
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The US has to take the lead, the rest will follow.
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We Chinese are open and welcoming, anybody is coming, we all welcome!
Victory? That's silly. Do we want him to come ? If he stays away, is there any difference for the Chinese? The Chinese want to show off that is what West assuming. show off for what ? Yes, we are proud of ourselves but why we shouldn't be proud of being a Chinese?
There is nothing complex, its just a baseline of lack of respect to the Chinese, or put it simple, because the Chinese are communists!
Again, you would like to be friends of the Chinese, no matter who you are, where you are from, all welcome!
If you don't have any clue about what the respect is, fine, just stay away from us!
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re. MarcusAurielusII's message. I don't have time to read up your past messages, but I do know your opinion about Europe and U.S. will not be the mainstream opinion of the next administration. Bush is at his last leg as the President. Can't you tell he is a lame duck of no serious consequence to us Americans. If he wants to go to the Olympics in Beijing, I hope he gets his kick ouf of it, being treated with VIP welcome instead of jeers from us depressed Americans. When it comes to standing up for what is moral, I don't care if it comes from European leaders or may be even Mugabe, IF he ever become a born again enlightened leader. Tibet is a human rights issue, a moral issue. It should be on top of the UN human rights agenda. While Bush is having fun in Beijin, I would suggest that he speaks to China's leaders on the issue of China arming the Etheopian government to commit crimes against humanity in Dafur. If it happens, I would say that Olympic game opens channels to make the world a better place, besides show-casinng athletic prowess of individuals. Let's hope so.
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I knew Bush would come even when the anti-china(not really pro-Tibet as apparently Tibet was just used as a tool) conspircy was in its height.
I can not believe James thought this should be something new.
For French president, if he comes, he comes, if he does not, then does not, does not really matter, he thought he's somebody, but did not realise his country has been rolling down fast and one day his country needs to beg China and US. Same to German, CAN, and UK PMs.
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Get a grip, James. This is not news. Unless there were a political event with magnitude of Beijing's 1998, or a 8.0 earthquake hits D.C. at 7th. August, the bottomline is that oil-dripping Bushes must go to the opening despite of Tibet or whatsoever. It is a matter of US national security fundamentally , and a principle decision on the ground of US national interests. China's Hu would have done the same thing to US vice versus.
As "hizento" commented earlier, China and US leaderships are operating at the level beyond usual politicians or heads of states such as UK, France, Germany, etc., except Russia. They have unusual mutual responsibilties to the world. The same is Olympics itself, in fact it is mainly a symbolized two-horse race, aside Russia. The rest (Sarkorsy, Brown, Merkel etc.) are not that important politically as it might look, although I personally think Sarkorsy is the dumbest of all.
Here we go the textbook politics trick:
1. Bush must go for the importance and opportunity cost of the event. But he needed an excuse to tell the congress. So he asked China to "talk" to DL;
2. Of course China knows the hint too well and gives Bush a stair to step up. You can see that it's already "Tibet : talk round II" in the headlines;
3. So Bush can tell the congress safely: you see? now can I go to "support our athletes" at the opening? Yammy!
Ends the story.
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I think this post of James exposes the European complexion.
As Chinese, we don?t care who come or who do not come to our party. China is so large. We do not desire the recognition which is so crucial for small European nations. As long as we have a good time, who cares? It is even better that George W Bush is coming from - the greatest nation on earth ? the United States of America. America is wonderful because she has surpassed the Chinese Exclusion Act era - hundreds of year ago. Backward Europe is still mired in the Chinese Exclusion mentality.
I am not bothered by the absence of a tiny number of European politicians. The ?Great Britain? is only the size of Virginia stage of the US, or Jiangsu province of China.
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Bush is sort of in a catch 22.
Not only is China a major American trading partner, but if China is to become a superpower, the United States would want to guide the country so that it is both an American ally and so that it is a benign superpower.
Antagonizing China with such a (from a down-to-earth/pragmatic point of view) an irrelevant snub by not attending is not conducive to trying to influence how China develops. It could even make China hostile and feel as though the world hates it.
China should be told that it does many things badly--on such things as domestic and international human rights. However, Chinese should be told in such a way that they will hopefully act on that advice, and not get angry about it. It's a choice of using a carrot or a stick. Bush's attendance is a small carrot, a sign that the United States wishes to be China's friend, if China will let it. If China does let the United States befriend it, then the United States has a few suggestions here and there about how China can be a force for good for the world and the Chinese people--not dissimilar to how American allies give their suggestions on how the United States should behave in Iraq and the world today, because they honestly believe that is what is good for the world and the American people.
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come on xD.....
I really feel out of word sometimes, as a Chinese citizen who watch news and read newspapers in UK the biggest ironic feeling i got is the western media is paradox most of the time.
Ok, whichever country hold Olympic their Olympic committe will invite other nation's leader as a political gesture. When someone said "i'm not going" you interpret it as China's loss and a slap on the face meanwhile when someone say"i will go" you interpret as China's victory...OMG come on Chinese official hasn't even said a word yet and this game is already a big burden so far to China from my personal feeling.
bush come bush go, just please watch and broadcast this from a nutrual point of view, there is no such victory or lose yet the game is not even started yet!
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@ Marcus Aurelius2:
It should be pointed out that democracy and the Republic are also "European invented" doctrines. While the Chinese spheres of influences were shameful to China, many other Asian and African countries endured far greater humiliation from being made de facto and de jure colonies.
@hizento:
Don't count your eggs before they hatch... :-). Depends on your definition of the term 'superpower,' but by most definitions, China is not there yet--though it is moving fast in that direction. As for "punishing" Germany, might that attitude be a bit too arrogant? Although Germany only has 90 million people, the country has an economy about the same as China--either a little larger or a little smaller. It's the largest state in the EU, a major Chinese trade partner, and a strong ally of the United States, another major Chinese trade partner (which combined make up over 40% of the world's trade). Surely the concept of humbleness exists in China?
-------
And for the Americans (and Filipinos) out there: hope you have a great Independence Day today. :-)
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why do we have to keep kissing china's butt. What happen to the words MADE IN AMERICA. our own President can't understand those words anymore.
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i don't understand why these journalists from western countrie never really pay attetion to what ordinary chinese think?? assuming they all live and work in china now?
do people in west really thing chinese are brainwashed by government? if you think of it that way, all the excuse i can think of is that maybe western's judgement prove they are racist? or simply just can not accept that people and culture are different?
i think most chinese criticise the communist government everyday after dinner! or even complain in the taxi to taxi drivers on the way to work, i am sure chinese would condamn government too if they shot the tibetan protestors.
but let's see the evidence here, there were over 1000 tourists from west and a few western media jounalists when the riot happened, there are loads of pictures and videos shows the protestors were not peaceful at all, in fact, quite violent? but how come there were no pictures showing chinese army shot tibetan prorestors?? not even one?? most people have mobile with cam now, is it really difficult for millions of people just took a few??
say, who is brainwashed? where are the evidences?
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I just want to say, way to go, Sarkozy, just don't whine when you learn the lesson, and good luck with your tenure
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It is the personal loss of whoever misses the BEIJING Olympics, will Merkel, Sarkozy, Brown and other figures hurt the ceremony by avoiding to be on the spot? Or will the show-up of these faces add color to the ceremony? Not at all. Nothing stops China to provide the best ever Olympics game.
Brown's decision is particularly reflecting his feminine personality. 'To attend the closing', what is he trying to symbolise? To tell British people he is 'boycotting Beijing Olympic', or to tell China 'I am not as hostile as Sarkozy and Merkel '? This poor man is always ended up with pleasing nobody.
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Right step, no doubt and of course a daring did in the face of tremendous pressure from diferent corners; a section of general public, NGOs and so forth.
No refusal to Beijing Olympic's invitation should come from any world leader, for the response is more to the Olympic and its sacredness; and of course to the PRC too.
The US President's decision is apropriate and thus a welcome one.
It should be hoped that all those who are still skeptically considering whether to say "yes" or "no" may follow the way the US President did.
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Personally I think the whole human rights issue is China's business and all the political people around the world need to but out. I may be in america, but I am tired of our country going to help others out when it can't handle things that go on in its own lands.
Poverty, unemployment, crime, etc. Our goverment will go to war, or but into human rights, stuff without a second thought.
Tibet is part of China, just because they want to seperate does not mean that other countries should but in. China is very well to stand their ground on things. I think it shows great character, and even though I believe in treating people well, you look at any country and you see some form of inhumanity.
Bush going to China's Olympics is a good thing. Regardless what the pilitical evil's say.
France, who would want them to come in. They are outcasts to majority of the world, UK... I have a strong feeling of kinship to the UK, I am glad they are at least going to one of the ceremonies.
China has always had a place in my heart, and I think that the Olympic's should be treated as what is was intended, a sport. Not a political stage. China has the right to have the honor and respect of all other countries in this event.
It really ticked me off when even the right winged hippies of america (that not many likes) was sitting there messing with the runners of the tourch. They should have been inprisoned for a very long time. They claim human rights, they just broke what they were fighting for, treating the runners that way was not very humane.
Dragen.
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From this article I think some west people are really arrogant and ignorant, such as you,james. Firstly,why do Chinese people should care about who will come for Olympics. If you have just a little knowledge about the modern history of China,you would know Chinese people 's feeling about west countries. Since 1840 in Chinese territory there are many invasive wars made by west countries and then followed by lots of unequal treaty, millions of people died and lots of territory lost.It is really difficult for Chinese people to be friendly to the west, but they really tried hard and Chinese people just want to use Olympics as Chance to show the friendship for the west because this is the only way to make a peaceful world and nobody want a cold war again. But what the west mainstream did is to humiliate and infuriate China again and again just because they fear and envy a strong China.
Secondly,political prisoners, what kind of "political prisoners"? Why do you not give more information about these prisoners?I know you think everyone arrestted by Chinese government are definitely great people, dont you? But for me,a native Chinese who have spent 3 yrs in London, I think Chinese government and Chinese laws are too tolerant especially for these so-called political prisoners, and China really need a stronger law enforcement to protect ordinary people.
James, I have read all articles in your blog and I appreciate that you can tell us your observation about China, as a native Chinese I am very happy to see different opinions about my country and I dont expect you use a Chinese viewpoint to report China but I think you also need tell the west audiences Chinese people's opinions and between China and the west both of us need more understandings and comunications. You are a journalists and you can do this.
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When you write your opinion, it should be based on right motivation and truth information. Simply writing with biased soul and divisive aimed will not help solving Tibet-China 50 yrs old political issue. I dont know whether earth quake in Sichuan province is any related with Tibetan politics issue,but we Tibetan monks and lay people residing in India and other place did special prayer in whole monasteries during this Poornima Full Moon auspicious month, including Dalai Lama and Tibetan exile govt ministers for the poor civilian Chinese people and Myanmar dead in earthquake and cyclone. This solidarity news have spread to all countries and especially in China also. I dont understand why these young Chinese grown up in abroad didnot understand and more dangerously they try to misinform and misguided others.
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Since US president George Bush term is coming to an end very soon, his foreign policy has relaxed with every countries, whether be Europe, or Russia or China. He cant strike his hand hardly and individually as during his previous term in which his party members are majority in parliament. But right now it is not the case.
We Tibetan welcome for both George Bush and Sarkozy for their sprong support for Tibetan issue which has become international issue as rightly stated by Japanese prime minister in March. We understand the difficulties on economy facing for the pro-Tibet leaders. But they are thinking on the broader meaningful purpose, that is HUMAN VALUE OF FREEDOM. So, sometime, temporary difficulties have to be endured in working towards bigger aiming job. Both of their stands are reasonable. French president strong stand is more powerful and more effective.
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Bush only comes to the game to disguise his role in Tibet issue.
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I've received emails from BBC twice that this blog was shut down, but obviously it isn't.
What does it mean???
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It is a duty of the president of the United States of America, to attend certain ceremonies like the olympics.
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China is hosting this years Olympic games...
This means a lot to many Chinese people...
China has a shocking human rights record...
This means a lot to many Chinese people...
These are indisputable facts.
I believe that the position His Holiness the Dalai Lama of Tibet, the world's most famous refugee has taken to this situation is the most helpful.
He has asked the international community to support Beijing's Olympics, to create harmony and show good will, as this is the only way to bring about peace, both internationally and between China and Tibet. At all times he urges us to show Loving Kindness and Forgiveness to all of our fellow citizens.
At the same time however as global citizens we have a moral obligation to speak out about any crimes against humanity...regardless of which country they are occurring in, regardless of whether that country is holding the Olympics or not.
I follow the wisdom of His Holiness's teachings. I love the Chinese people, many are my best friends, I wish them all the best with their Olympic Games. At the same time I urge the Global community and International leaders to put pressure, not on the Chinese people, but on their government who are responsible for many human rights abuses including their illegal occupation and continued brutal suppression of the Tibetan people, their religion and their culture.
The Chinese Government can no longer hide behind "smoke screens" and say that all is well in Tibet, this tact is not working any longer and is only bringing further shame to the Chinese government.
While without doubt we appreciate that this current government is much better than previous Chinese governments, and we applaud all the positive changes which have been made by this government, these changes nevertheless make no difference to those individuals who now live under intolerable oppression in areas of China and in Tibet.
So my Chinese brothers and sisters, "Good luck with your Olympics". And to my brothers and sisters in the Chinese Government "Please open your hearts to your Tibetan brothers and sisters. This will not weaken your power but bring you international respect and acclaim... more than you can imagine. Please, please grant "GENUINE AUTONOMY" to Tibet and please join with us in the global community and fight for human rights and world peace".
China is a great and powerful country and has much to offer us as we do them. Let's join together and work together in the spirit of peace for all of humanity.
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How much do Chinese and the government care about how many western leaders appear at the olympics? For the Chinese, it is a simple answer: If you are my friend, you are welcome to my party. If you are my foes, you had better stay away. That is a part of the Chinese culture.
Some leaders who choose to stay away from the olympics are showing up to their own voters, and will not do any good to the issues of their concern.
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President of United States is to support the true sportmenship of this world,but Communist ,isolated leadreship need every support to show their power to the world ,so that is wrong here ? Some unethic ,narrow minded leadership in great nation of China, is wrong.I mean the communist govt itself makes eerything upside down....recently the secatary of occupiedTibet has comment some political things on the torch realy in Lhasa that is wrong,crackdown on tibet peaceful demonstrator is wrong,support the Sudan govt is wrong,by the way why this communist govt is so bad guy among all other good big brother....Chinese people are proud of this coming event .as being Tibetan i am supporting the Chinese people sentiment but never support the handful gun supported govt ever.this govt is really made of old narrow red minded who is now losing its identity with slow revolution inside China...so i think if Mr Bush is not supporting the Human right cause...then he is wrong.but he strongly does...so how to punish this bad fat brotherw
to punish the communist goverment is now doing by themselve...other then themselve..they will be punish by suffered Chinese peoplewho is now obessed by good citizen and hard working people of China.As Tibetan I strongly Support this event of our chinese brothers and sister but i willisnever support this evil govt..i pray to god that this communist govt will be crushed by trhe young and energetic Chinese themselve...hoping that people of the great China will again raise for true China...A Chinese that woulkd be poud of their spoksmen...to other international community...just again like 1989...and this time with very freedom lover we will crush this unethic ledership with true power of the people that is prevail of democracy...on the China..may this opic bring so much wealth to the Chinese people...that this very wealth will change itself to free China rather then free Tibet
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Hi, James, I don't know if you ever read those comments, but I will write it anyway. As an oversea chinese student in Canada, I got to watch BBC everyday for at least an hour. I found your program is quite similar to the international news that I used to hear in China, with coverage all over the world( unlike the American news). But I also found something very interesting, in terms of perspective of your viewing. For example, the most resent news about china on BBC world news is the "green" Olypics in Qindao, where algae clotted the venues, and you guys do mention about the cross-stright fight in the rolling caption below. Meanwhile, the historic fight is the biggest news on any chinese media. So I found it a little bit disappointing that you guys seemingly only cover the bad news not the good ones, or at least not at the same level. Same thing for chinese media, in which the top international news is president Bush was yelled over by some protesters in the independence day ceremony. I have a feeling that both sides are biased in choosing what to report and what not to. If this trend continues, I believe both sides will misunderstand each other and it will make further reconciliation btw china and west developed countries harder. Since I am powerless in changing the chinese media, I want you guys to move towards a more positive coverage. James, you can start by writing a new blog about hina-taiwan our hostile history and our current relations. So people in UK and around the world will understand my complicated country better and exempt you the censure of being biased.
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It's a good chance to meet for these two powerful leaders. They would talk and understand each other more.
Though there are lots of conflicts between these two countries, communication is better than war.
So I would like to see these two leaders' meeting.
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It would seem that the moderators are rather busy with this one. ...Anyhow, I am hoping that Bush turns up and tries to speak some Chinese, getting the tones wrong will be hilarious, and it can't be much worse than his English speeches. (Listen to him pronounce nuclear as "nukeler" it's a riot.)
Perhaps he could visit a school and misspell "potato" like Dan Quayle (potatoe), but then Bush comes from Texas and I don't think that even he could get the spelling of "oil" wrong.
The Chinese government has the largest dollar reserves in the world so Georgie boy has to go, unless he wants them to trash his currency and raise his war costs even higher. Plus, Daddy said he had to, so there's an end to it.
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The President Bush said that his decission to attend the China Olimpic is not to offend the Chinese people.But what difference does his visit make to the million of jobless, bullied poor, landless farmers and the suppressed free thinkers?The real winner here is the Communist Party.I sincerely hope the Party will return his favour before the Olimpic Began.
Chemy Tashi
NewYork
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Whether or not Mr. Bush is coming to the opening ceremony of Beijing Olympic Games is not a big deal to Chinese people.
Even no one is gonna join the Games, China got 1.3 Billion people and they will filled up the venues for sure!
1 vs 1.3 billion? That's not a smart choice, is it? What kind of victory did you mean James in your article?
I heard that French people and their president are not welcomed by many Chinese now and I think this is the Victory, cause probably Chinese will turn ugly faces to those from France during the event.
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Re: simplyjigdo
Are you suggesting that your Chinese brothers and sisters should stand up and "crush" the communist government? Followed by a endless and deadly civil war?
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China is accused of violating Human Rights - ONLY because of the perceived Communistic political-system of China. The accusations are rooted in distortions and fabrications.
The truth is: if compared to Western powers, China has much better Human Rights domestically or internationally. To ?convince? the Chinese people, you must transcend your own limitations. Don?t throw the NGO?s at us. We all know who fund these nuggets.
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Whether Uncle Sam go to Olympic or not,it does not matter much. I hope one leader will come who will work as broker for dialogue. Regarding the ongoing dialogue between Tibet and China's counterpart, so far, no condition is put to Chinese counterpart from Tibetan side of representative. Always, Chinese leaders put different type of conditions timely, In earlier they put three conditions for the dialogue to occur. During the last dialogue, they put four conditions which is totally new one from the earlier one. They even threatened that dialogue may be stalled if its not done. Sometime Chinese leaders are telling that ball is in the Dalai Lama's court.
What we Tibetans are thinking that the negotiation should process unconditionally, equally right, on the same prestige and power. Otherwise it becomes like talking between Elephant and Mouse. Bullying will not work in 21st century.
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James, you better pack your suitcase and go home. You are in Beijing not to inform and help the people of the word to enjoy the Olympics, your purpose is political and most of the time your comments is harming the spirit and goodwill of the people joining in this sporty event.
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democracy101 #11
First of all, Darfur is in Sudan, not Ethiopia. Perhaps you need a refresher course in geography 101.
President Bush is still the President of the United States and still represents the peope of the United States in world affairs. And he will be until the next President is sworn in.
Europe is one to talk about morality. It just lifted it sanctions on Cuba, a cruel brutal totalitarian regime if ever there was one. And Europe did not boycott the Olympics in Germany in 1936 when Adolf Hitler was in power.
http://www.ushmm.org/museum/exhibit/online/olympics/
"In August 1936, Adolf Hitler's Nazi dictatorship scored a huge propaganda success as host of the Summer Olympics in Berlin. The Games were a brief, two-week interlude in Germany's escalating campaign against its Jewish population and the country's march toward war."
It's just one more of a million examples of Europe's hypocricy and the reason I detest it. Perhaps my countrymen who feel otherwise are simply not well informed enough about it.
AnonymousCalifornian #17
"@ Marcus Aurelius2:
It should be pointed out that democracy and the Republic are also "European invented" doctrines."
If you are talking about the relative handful of inhabitants of ancient Greece, that hardly relates to modern times. There was no real democracy in Europe EVER. And that includes today. Just look at how the EU is being ramrodded down the throats of almost every nation in Europe, their citizens rarely ever having anything to say directly about who will govern them. Their governments are almost all thoroughly corrupt filled with politicians who are only concerned for their own future prospects as high paid EU Ministers or to boost the fortunes of their wealthy best friends. You can be sure the French people will never get another chance at a referendum on the EU or probably anything else. As for Ireland, the EU is already trying to figure out how to work around their NO vote on Lisbon and their own EU laws.
"While the Chinese spheres of influences were shameful to China, many other Asian and African countries endured far greater humiliation from being made de facto and de jure colonies."
First of all, the term shameful is outrageous considering what the European actually did to China, a civilization far older and more experienced than their own. And so you admit that what I say about Europe having exploited nations all over the world with their imperial empires which stole their wealth, enslaved their people, and murdered them is true. Good. Why should that be consolation to the Chinese because the suffering Europeans inflicted on others was even worse and for a longer period?
What do you think the Declaration of Independence you tell us to celebrate and the American Revolution was about? You need a refresher course in History 101.
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great to hear different voices, serajampa, don'tforgettibet and so many chinayan.......
I guess most of you are now in UK or Somewhere in Europe. If you people cannot convince each other and has to end up using guns and rods, it would be disgraceful to the heaven and human civilsation.
There are emotionally charged pieces and repeatedly demanding wholly agreement from either parties.
The big direction has to be clear.
Chinese is not American, and Tibetans will have his role much larger than red indians.
Many chinese are influenced by Tibetan buddhist religion.
It is NOT a life or death issue, both people have survived thousands of years, Bot h peole are basicaaly civilised and considerated 'tribes'.
For all overseas Tibetan, should again learn about the history and see how one can adjusted life in a multicultural China.
How can you imagine New Mexcio became independent again? or Texas be a republic again.
Europe no doubt has its prime time so does India, China, or any great nations on earth.
For bloggers to downgrade Germany or France is simply childish and equally blind as
saying others do not know who Gong li is.
A mature nation relys on mature citizen and students.
A global perspective needs more calibre in time , history, georgaphy and culture.
If Italy can have the Pope and Vatican, China can have Dala.
But for Tibetan to claim Sichuen and Kanshu?, would like the Pope to claim the holy roman empire back.
Will French agree?
this kind of emotionally chagred and ''racial consideration appeals to the young and is very destructive.
Destructive in a sense to the good of the person , as it breads hatre , blind the good soul and solve nothing except being used by others.
furthermore , one loses the reasoning to work for the boring greater good.
To work together is very boring and lack all the excitments that appeals to the young and energetic heart and body....
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The dying act of a shameless, lame duck of a president. No doubt the chinese will use this as propaganda, wonder how obama and mccain will handle china?
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YiXin921,
You've had 3 years in the west and you still peddle the party line? Wow, you must really depend on the chinese government student grant.
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MarcusAurelius2- you need a course in history 101 itself. Democracy was invented in ancient Greece, the oldest continuous democracy in the world is Britain, the Republic was dreamt up by Plato et al. but its ideals implemented in Europe, for example during the French Revolution. American Republican ideals (in a non-party sense) are based on European Enlightenment philosophy and the work of thinkers such as Immanuel Kant and John Locke.
You may not think much of Europe but it is the birthplace of the modern democracy you in the US hold so dear.
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Spinoza
Britain was never a democracy. American colonists thought they were British subjects with equal rights of other British citizens. But they suffered taxation without representation. That is what the British population will be suffering under the EU as the British government cedes all of what's left of its sovereignty to it. Why should British taxpayers subsidize building roads and bridges in Hungary without any chance for their elected representatives to vote it down? Maybe you call that democracy where you come from that that's what we call tyranny here in America.
I don't know how you get from ancient Greece to the United States of America. there is no comparison in the societies or the freedoms. Besides, it disappeared didn't it?
As for what a Republic is, yes I know all about Plato. If you read carefully, you'll see I made no mention of republics. Perhaps you need a remediation in English reading 101.
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I see many people here like democracy101 always making comments on China with a sense of ignorance and arrogance. I am wandering: do these people really possess basic knowledge on world history especially China history? Have they ever been in China? Have they ever talked with a Chinese from mainland China? Do they read Chinese and Do they visit Chinese BBS or blogs? and have they tried to know what the common Chinese think? and finally what education they have had? Have they had university study or high school education or only primary school education? ......just my curiosity.
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MarcusAureliusII:
Darfur's current situation of a humanitarian crisis is the issue. Sudan and Ethiopia is a few lattitudes off kind of mistake. China is responsible for selling weapons to this murderous state. Bush should use this opportunity to speak firmly with the leaders of China. It is the utmost urgent human man made crisis we face today.
As for President Bush's remaing days, Americans will give him the respect for the office he holds but not necessary for the leader he is. We are a working democracy, we do not put our presidents on the altar to worship, and his term is coming to an end not soon enough. This is what makes America strong, the on-going dissent and disapproval by its citizenry of our leaders. Unfortunately, the young Chinese on this blog do not understand the virtue and neccessity of this process if democracy were to take roots and thrive in their society.
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democracy101
Europe created many of the geopolitical problems in the world today and Briatin played a major part in it. They set the stage for many of them. Britain and Holland set the stage for Apartheid South Africa, Rhodesia/Zimbabwe, made Kashmir part of India instead of Pakistan despite 90% of the population being Moslem, and invented the "nation" of Iraq. You can find it all over the world. So for Britain and France or anyone else from Europe to get on their high horse over Sudan or Burma as an excuse for bashing China is one more example of European hypocricy usually reserved for the US. Britain trades with the hated Communist tyranny of Cuba again now that the EU's trade sanctions are lifted.
The utmost urgent human rights crisis we face today is that if the US government gives in to the lunacy of Carbon cap and trade that Europeans insist on to reduce global warming over the coming decades, it will only be a matter of months or at most a few years before all existing stockpiles of food are gone there will be worldwide famines where hundreds of millions will starve to death when the American farmers who grow the food that feeds them get down off their tractors, sell their carbon credits to the power companies, and get desk jobs in the cities making more money with less effort. And you can be sure of one thing, when famine does come and there isn't enough food to go around, and Americans get back to farming, they will feed their own nation first.
France and Germany sold weapons to Saddam Hussein in violation of the very UN sanctions they voted for. Don't give me your sanctimonious nonsense about the Chinese selling weapons to Sudan. Britain's government is fighting an investigation by its own courts over bribes to Saudi Princes to sell the repressive regime in Saudi Arabia 40 billion dollars of weapons. When you get past the rhetoric, no one is more corrupt or indifferent to human rights than Europe. Just look at the law the EU passed over imprisoning illegal migrants in the EU before deporting them. It has been unanimously denounced by the leaders of every major Latin American country.
China doesn't have a democracy today because an alien European doctrine Communism imposed with the help of an alien European imperial power Russia (in the guise of an empire the USSR) imposed it on them. They will take fifty more years by their own account to overcome that setback. Considering what has happened to them between European imperialism in the 19th century, Japanese Imperialism in the early 20th, and Russian imperialism in the late 20th, that will be a remarkable feat. So far after thousands of years Europe hasn't achieved democracy. If you don't believe it, look at the tyranny of the EU that's being created right now.
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to MarcusAureliousII: Your are light years off, not a few latitudes off on your assigning blame to Europe for all the ills of the world at the moment. No doubt, colonialism had caused many conflicts in Africa in particular. Japan had a very brief colonial history and so did Russia. It all ended within a human life span. That is not to say it left no mark on those nations, society which had been subjugated by them. China was under communism also for a brief period of fifty years. Cultures could not have been wiped out so easily within such a blink of an eye in human history and development. Thereby, your idea of victimhood without responsibility for the ills of nations, society and individual is nothing more than a cop out attitude with no redeeming value in terms of self improvement. Nelson Mandela did not want his people to live in the past of victimhood and S. Africa avoided bloodshed in becoming a stable democracy. Zimbawe had a thriving agriculture and economy when white Europeans were running it. Mugabe, the murderous rouge leader is no victimm but he used victimhood to maintain control and power at the expense of his people' suffering. China, through its culture of reverence for scholarship had achieved much economic development within an amazing short period of time after the end of Mao's rule. China's lack of openess presently cannot be blamed on European political idealogy. It is instead a Chinese government, and cultural hallmark of Chinese society.
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MarcusAurelioII, your analysis of the current situation of problems existing in the world are fair and accurate. Thanks you to provide real answer to problems created in the world by Europe and mainly by The British.
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Hi James,
You are doing a good job. Don't be discouraged by the comments from some of the Chinese here in this forum. Whatever you are reporting is your hard work, sincere and most of all the TRUTH. To me whoever reports from China would carry the same points that you bring except those medias who are completely controlled by Chinese government. I wonder if the Chinese government is going to give free media press during the Olympics. Or is it going to be under state controlled. Olympics is the time when all the medias should have freedom to report. Let's watch what happens in August.
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As a Tibetan and with much respect for the Dalai Lama for his wisdom and humanity, I don't see any issue with Bush going to the Opening ceremony. What's important is for Bush to let the Chinese communist leaders know that having a constructive dialogue with the Dalai Lama is best for the stability of Tibet and hence the stability of China. Dalai lama had said from day one when Olympic games was awarded to China that he welcomes the decision. The Chinese people deserve this, China is an ancient nation with a rich history and culture. Chinese athletes have worked hard and deserve to win as many medals as any other athletes. May the best win. Good luck to all the athletes.
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MarcusAureliusII- Britain was indeed a democracy and still is, for its own citizens. As for how it treated its colonies, that is a different matter. I do not defend imperialism but that was long ago.
let's not forget America's own contributions to world peace- Vietnam, Korea, Nicaragua, Honduras, Guatemala, slavery, segregation until the late 60s(!), selling arms to the Taleban, Saddam etc.
No country has a perfect history, especially not the US. Doesn't change the fact that democracy is a European invention.
PS Cuba is not a brutal regime. Incompetent, maybe, but not brutal. The US sanctions are pointless.
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democracy101
Far from conflicts ending in a human lifespan, they continue on through countless generations, a legacy one generation leaves to another. The war between Japan and China ended over 60 years ago but the emnity Chinese people feel towards Japan for the crimes they committed is not gone. And the Chinese government has used it quite cleverly while the Japanese government unwilling to admit it and face its dark past so that its nation can move on play's right into the Chinese govenment's hands every time a Japanese Prime Minister visits the shrines where dead Japanese war criminals lie burried. Those in the Balkins do the same for events that happened many centuries ago. So did the Irish until recently.
Europe raped Africa and walked away. In the 1960s the UN Trusteeship Council made it possible for Europe to dump natiions it artificially created along its own colonial lines, not lines reflecting ethnic divisions out like so much trash totally unprepared to govern themselves. They immediately became a front line in the battleground for the Soviet Union's efforts to take over the world.
Japan's "brief" colonial history was so widespread and brutal, it has left scars all over southeast asia which have not healed three generations later. To dismiss it is to outrage the victims and families of victims who still remember their brutally murdered kin and feel hatred to Japan whom they hold accountable for the loss of those nearest to them.
The Soviet Russian empire which was a European empire based on a European invented political doctrine has adversely affected the lives of every single person alive on earth today. The world would be a far better place if Communism had never existed.
Your apology for Rhodesia under white rule because it had a "thriving" economy is typical of European rationalization of the crimes they committed. It was only thriving for the whites. The Black Africans from whom the country was stolen lived on the crumbs they were thrown with no chance to get a fair share of the nation's wealth until they overthrew white rule. Europeans set the stage for what is happening there now, Robert Mugabe detestable as he is, is an instrument of the history Europe created.
Europeans destroyed thriving civilizations among the Inca, Mayans, and Aztecs all over Latin America. The Carribean became a waystation for the trade in African slaves.
China is recovering from the horrors Mao and those in the Soviet Russian empire who put him in power inflicted on China. Not only were at least 30 million Chinese killed directly in that European adventure gone haywire like all of them do, but their culture was robbed from them. Many of the cultural artifacts of Chinese civilization were destroyed in Communism's efforts to deny and eliminate all traces of the past 5000 year history that was so rich.
Yes, Europe may not be to blame for every problem in the world such as militant Islam but it certainly has the lions share to account for.
Europe denies its crimes all over the world much as Japan denies its crimes. French who actually committed the torture in Algeria the French government has denied all these decades have only recently admitted to the truth of it. So when Europe becomes outraged over Tibet, it should consider that its grandparents and greatgrandparents and those who came before them did far worse all over the world.
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I think everyone really need to draw a line between politics and sports. Bush probably went to Olympics as Mr. Bush, not necessary as an identity of president.
Why people always like to mingle politics with everything. What if Bush is not president anymore, can he still go? Will people realy care?
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there is no win or lose, i think it is too early to decide this. Bush made this decision according to current situation his regime is facing.
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It may not be life and death issue to the Communist china,but it certainly is to Tibet.I am rather perplexed as why dramarkmark could not see that.Anyway one silver lining is to hear that the chinese are influenced by
buddhism.So here is one from Lord Buddha "He who is seeking his own happiness and who punishes those who also long for happiness is running after achimera.No happiness shall come his way for having destroyed that of others". unquote.
c.tashi
new york
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