Airlines pressing to fly
The carriers are desperate to get back into the skies. Their losses are rising. Some now say they are collectively losing $250m (£163m; 185m euros) a day.
What they are doing is challenging the national civil aviation authorities to ease restrictions.
Here is Wolfgang Mayrhuber, Chief Executive of the German carrier Lufthansa: "No-one wants to fly through a volcanic ash cloud. But what we have seen in the past few days is anything other than a serious danger."
Two German airlines, Lufthansa and Air Berlin, say the decision to close airspace has not been based on proper testing.
They have flown aircraft, without passengers, in skies strewn with volcanic ash. One official said afterwards "we didn't find a scratch".
Lufthansa's view is that the ban is based too heavily on computer calculations.
Giovanni Bisignani of the International Air Transport Association said "we must move away from the blanket closure and find ways to flexibly open airspace". IATA says the European response has been "inadequate".
In IATA's view there have been "missed opportunities" to fly safely. Decisions, they are demanding, should be based on "real situations and not theoretical models". In their view the economic impact is greater than after the 9/11 terror attacks in 2001.
What authorities are doing is following rules established by the International Civil Aviation Organization, the UN aviation body. Brian Flynn of Eurocontrol, the European air safety and navigation organisation, says "the rules need to be adhered too and guidelines interpreted at continental level."
It is the interpretation of those guidelines that will be at the heart of meetings held today. Are they too severe? The Dutch Transport Minister, Camiel Eurlings, says "Europe's response to the ash cloud has been too severe."
However, as one official observed in relation to the UK, "most of the layers of volcanic ash cloud remain dynamic". The picture changes from hour to hour and that is why there is a patchwork of openings and closings.
The situation is very difficult to co-ordinate. So northern Italy's airspace was closed just two hours after opening.
And then there is the risk factor. The German Transport Minister, Peter Ramsauer, is quoted as saying "it would be cynical to put airline profit before safety".
So the dilemma: weighing risk. At stake are passengers' lives. What may emerge from a number of meetings today is greater flexibility in interpreting guidelines.
A reminder also of how difficult it will be to get people home once routes re-open. Tim Jeans of Monarch Airlines, that has 60,000 passengers abroad, said the logistics of getting them home would be enormous. "To think we can simply get people through the Channel Tunnel or on ferries is entirely unrealistic."
Hence the deployment of three British Navy ships to help stranded passengers.
I'm 
~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~58~RS~)
Comments
Sign in or register to comment.
I'm fully in agreement with NATS on this one - yes we base the restrictions on computer models of less than pristine accuracy, but gathering real-time data on the extent of the clouds would require an insane commitment of resources. It's simply not feasable.
A blanket-ban is hugely damaging, but compared to letting planes fly and risking loosing even a single one - the damage to the industry would be ten-fold.
Longer term, with the airline industry still in a slump from the economic crisis, we're staring another run of bankrupcies in the face. And me still fresh out of training and looking for an airline job too. Joy.
Complain about this comment
Even if the airlines get their wish and the airspace opens again, the question remains.
Would you fly, potential airline customer, unless you really really have to?
Complain about this comment
Risk is comparison of how serious the outcome might be compared to the likelihood of the outcome ever happening.
The fact is that Aircraft jet engines are vulnerable to the silicate content of volcanic ash in the atmosphere with many recorded instances of aircraft (not near volcanoes but flying within the plume) suffering total engine failure as a result of volcanic ash intake - not one of all engines in many instances but all jet engines of aircraft with as many as 4 jet engines fitted.
The possible outcome of such catastrophic total engine failure is aircraft loss with all crew and passengers being deceased.
The liklihood of this happening is not zero and there is palpable risk of just one aircraft being lost - the consequences of such a singular disaster would be far worse than passenger disruption which many people are stoically bearing with.
In reality the pressure being applied to the Aviation Safety authorities to relax the flight restrictions is driven by fear of financial losses to the aviation industry and risk to future profits. This is a clear example of big business putting financial considerations ahead of passenger safety!
Such efforts to curb the safety consciousness of the Aviation Safety Standards should be resisted and human passengers, merely considered by the aviation companies as mere cattle with money to spend, must have their safety kept first and foremost.
Complain about this comment
I fly a lot, and all the airlines harp on about 'we are doing this for your safety'. Where are their concerns for my safety now?
A body in which the airlines have previously regarded as experts on flight safety are now being called into question because airlines do not like the advice and are losing money? Definitely money before safety, I hope the airlines have their cost vs. risk models properly assessed.
Complain about this comment
Like the effects of the UK postal strikes in the last decade leading to the explosion of fax machines, , many businesses are now finding that alternatives such as web/online and video-conferencing are cheaper and more reliable than air travel. The 'fallout' from this volcano will have a permanent effect on business travel revenue as a result; companies will now weigh the benefits of face-to-face meetings with the ALL the risks involved in air travel.
Complain about this comment
"Lufthansa's view is that the ban is based too heavily on computer calculations."
Just like CO2 and global warming? I'll bet they've done their own computer calculations of how much it is costing them and how soon they'll go broke if they don't resume flying.
"They have flown aircraft, without passengers, in skies strewn with volcanic ash. One official said afterwards "we didn't find a scratch"."
I haven't noticed the temperature getting any warmer over the summers where I live either. So I guess if it's okay to start flying I should forget about CO2 emmissions. Okay I will. I'm convinced. However I won't be taking any chances on flying in Europe (I wasn't going to anyway as some probably guessed already :-)
"The carriers are desperate to get back into the skies. Their losses are rising. Some now say they are collectively losing $250m (£163m; 185m euros) a day."
I guess they have each calcuated what the total cost would be if one of their planes went down because of invisible particles of ash causing engine failure and decided it is less than they are losing by not operating. Besides, if they were allowed to fly and crashed, they could sue the air safety authorities for not having stopped them even though they were pushing for an end to the ban themselves. For them resuming flying could be a win win situation whether planes crash or not.
One more example of European denial of the realities of life that could lead to disaster.
Complain about this comment
I realise the ash is not supposed to be visible from the ground, but there is never-the-less an impression that something is seriously wrong here. The beautiful clear skies in the vicinity of Heathrow over the last 3-4 days stand in stark contrast to the complete closure of UK airspace due to volcanic ash supposedly making that air too dangerous to fly through.
The probability has to be that over-cautious British officials at the Met Office and NATS played it over-safe initially and have since become trapped by the beautiful but stagnant weather into maintaining their original overly-cautious position. British politicians have been too distracted by election campaigning to question the technocrats. Overseas governments naturally assume that there must be a real cause for concern if British airspace has been closed and so the initial over-reaction here spreads to other countries. Given the frequency of volcanic eruptions in other parts of the world, no planes would ever fly in New Zealand, or Hawaii, or the Andes or Southern Italy or Indonesia if the authorities in those places reacted to a relatively small-scale volcanic eruption 900 miles away as British officialdom have done. Frankly it is shaping up to be a massive national embarrassment.
Heads should roll at the bureaucracies that cause such huge cost and expense by their “play it safe at all costs” attitudes. The UK is now trying to sell almost all of the £100m of unused bird-flu vaccine that it bought when the World health Organisation over-hyped that problem, so the problem is more widespread that just this one incident. This is what happens when politician outsource more and more decision-making to unaccountable technocrats.
Complain about this comment
What is going on here is more than meets the eye.
Why can’t the airplanes fly under, over or around the volcanic cloud? No-one should fly through it, but my goodness, I don’t understand how a volcanic cloud can totally stop air traffic across Europe. Also there are those two German airlines - Lufthansa and Air Berlin - flying without passengers, in skies strewn with volcanic ash, and returning without a scratch.
I do understand about rules because breaking rules almost always leads to litigation and litigation leads to mega-settlements. So, let's face it, no one is going to break the rules.
International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO) works in close co-operation with other members of the United Nations family such as the World Meteorological Organization and the World Health Organization. So, in a sense, it’s all one big family that doesn’t want Europe to fly.
I have harped and harped on this topic, but I will try to harp once more.
- HAARP was completed December, 1994.
- Now in advanced testing.
- Is a Pentagon-sponsored radiophysics project.
- pursuing more opaque military goals
- transforms ions and free electrons through the process known as ionization.
- is capable of WEATHER MANIPULATION. Caused by differential heating of areas of the atmosphere to induce weather conditions, such as floods or droughts, earthquakes and volcanic eruptions.
- Russia and the United States of America signed an agreement NOT to pursue this technology; at that time the Russian Program was callled Sura and the American program was called HAARP. I don't know about Sura, but HAARP never stopped, is completed, and is being tested - Quite possibly on Iceland.
Conclusion: So, either get a handle on this program, or face ongoing weather manipulation that will cost far more than the loss of flights.
HAARP in the hands of the United States military is the equivlant of CDOs in the hands of Goldman Sachs.
It's aim is gamgling while holding all the cards and knowing it cannot lose.
Alaska State Legislature Representative, Jeannette James, whose district surrounds the HAARP site, has repeatedly asked Air Force officials about the project. She has been told time and again: "Don't worry." This is military business.
This not the last we will hear of HAARP. Whether or not the program's sponsors understand its long-term effects, they appear to feel that the potential for useful military dominnance makes it worth taking some political risk, and why not if NO ONE IS CHALLENGING.
Complain about this comment
From the luxury of my bed in Florida. Problem is my husband was due to join me two days ago and is still stranded in London having taken a ferry to UK on Friday from Jersey where we live. Personally neither of us are too keen to fly a twin engined plane trans-atlantic until the risk is no greater than normal.
Interestingly the BBC map now shows the cloud touching the Canadian Coastline. Should that reach the Eastern US seaboard I wonder how the litigation conscious US Airlines and government would then react. Maybe the European response will be seen as being the right one. There will be a time when the potential cost of lawsuits will be the determining factor and in my experience that is when it affect US citizens and companies. Imagine the cost of losing a US plane because a cavalier US Airline flew with ANY increased risk.
Complain about this comment
This brings the question:
"Don't airlines insure themselves for cases of such loss of trafic?".
Perhaps not, so as to reduce their running costs. Be it. For the shake of security which comes first. It is difficult, I know - I also use the plane very often (luckily not this week), but what can we do?
It is also a nice lesson for all to know how "the system" goes down at the most banal physical event, a volcano.
It is during such events that people start thinking if the current ways are really the ideal. No they are not. The passanger planes we have it are of a design with which we stuck back in the 1940s. Not the best design, not ideal, not the most secure, not the most efficient, not the most economic. It was all a matter of convenience for the industries - and above all for governments that wanted to contain flight to certain standards (i.e. restrict people in controlled airports and such... not so much for security control - security can be achieved in anyway, but for financial control).
There are solutions to such problems but it takes more than engineering to do. I have repeatedly said that for passenger transportation over distances of at least (based on old technology...) up to radious of about 750km and for intercontinental goods transportation the good old airship (as it was in the 1930s...) is much more suitable. I am not going to analyse it now but those who know, know. There are other plane designs like the EKIP project that Russian government stopped in the 1990s not for lack of funds, but actually because Russians (like Americans) do not want it: a plane design that can carry 1000-1500 people on a single fying volume which consumes 3 times less (for the capacity of 1000 people or several hundred tons!) anc which lands on a hovercraft-like air-cushion not needing airports but a just a plain, any plane including sea of course - all that completely secure - note, the plane can as well fly at very low altitudes completely safe. The projects' engineers all they asked was the funding to built the real-scale prototype (they had passed successfully tests of scaled prototypes) to prove their promises: and their promises were anything but moderate: "minimum 1000 passengers, 3 times less fuel, 10 times more secure - "you have to bomb it to bring it down"...
Ok, forget EKIP which is a high-tech plane. Get the simplistic Zep. You wouldn't let those Kenyans for example built their own Zeps and develop their country with minimal costs without need of stupid highways and other such unecessary infrastructure (remember Tesla and such, wireless energy transfer and such - this is old tech. nothing new under the sun...).
Anyway, hope you do not find this "wacky-talky"... I am an engineer, not a specialist in aviation but I know something more than the average too, thank you!
Given the low-tech, high-complexity configuration (worst combination) we are stuck with, this is how much we can do: the decision to keep down all aircrafts is correct. The eruption is quite strong, there is a lot of ash out there and even if an area is clear, if the adjacent is not, a simple change in the wind's direction may risk a plane. The lifes of even a single plane lost (say 120 people) are more important than 100,000 passengers waiting a day or 2. Get the bus & boat for a change. Up to yesterday our parents and grandparents travelled that way. Otherwise wait 2-3 days more. It is not the end of the world.
Complain about this comment
Ok so they say 'not a scratch, have they stripped and examined an engine closely. It may have not stalled in the air but is may accelerate wear and parts may fail sooner than expected lifetime?
Has Rolls Royce or other turbine manufacturers simulated agressive wear for long periods?
further questions to ponder over!
Complain about this comment
It is time to face our cruel reality of this outcome.
It seems to be a sort of a hard reckoning time regarding nature functioning and human endeavors.
The economic power is inducing a strong influence but the risk is already set at a high stake.
Considering the failing on public leadership like a spreading worldwide obesity, economic meltdown, war businesses, invading another country illegally and for oil, atomic power bullying of countries by Obama administration like all predecessors instead of pursuing a more honest venue.
How much should I a single consumer trust governments and institutions taking a flight that may fall down because of misguided supervision or just businesses pressure having weak concern for safety of people.
Let’s be honest because the public is constantly deceived on constant mismanagement. Mr. Obama accepted a Nobel Peace Prize while sending 30,000 soldiers to Afghanistan. This matches with the war support since Mr. Alfred Nobel packed wealth by developing dynamite. I mean, war and peace are businesses to collect rewards. Mr. Obama assigned a near obese lady Dr. Regina Benjamin as General Surgeon of the US letting his wife worry about obesity while one-third of Americans are getting obese dragging the world toward a worsening obesity catastrophe predicted to reach 85% by 2040 if the trend continues. Health staff are obese like regular citizens not using their own expertise.
As far as we know volcanoes can erupt usually for two months but it can be a year or even having a bigger event that nobody can say with any certainty what is the outcome.
The terrorism now is just called Nature on its unpredictable development regarding some specific functioning.
As a PhD deeply knowing the functioning of science and pursuing a ‘scientific discovery’ in the US my honest advice is to bear in your mind that something very ugly is coming and get ready for changes and hope nature has some leniency. Try not to trust much government as they are humans not so perfect in their functioning sometimes misguiding their own kind to avoidable mistakes.
Complain about this comment
Re8: I am aware too of project HAARP (and of the equivalent Russian one - did not remember its name though, SURA). Initially that technology was supposedly developed so as to provide the US and Russian armies with ideal conditions during their campaigns.
2 years back I remember having flown from Europe to Singapoor and over Afganistan in January and it was the only place where not only there was not a single cloud but there was a stricking clarity from the several kilometers of height the airplane was flying down. What amazed me was the scarce snow over the mountains: Afganistan is a mountainous country with extreme climate, very hot in summer, very cold in winter so - at least the mountains - had to be all covered white. Ok, it happens. But a friend did the same next year, same period, December, same story.
HAARP? Conspiracy theory? That is no conspiracy, that is pure logistics guys. Good weather saves time and money for Americans, why wouldn't they use it? In Afganistan most possibly they used it. I think, Russians had used an early form of SURA in their earlier Afganistan war in the 1980s. Russias do use weather control over the Moscow region to reduce snowfall and thus save them some money from cleaning the streets, something that was questioned by Russian citizens (as for the safety of the technology in terms of environmental balance, weather cycle etc.).
However from there one to go on and explain every environmental catastrophe, typhoon, earthquake, tsunami and volcanic eruption on the basis of HAARP or SURA is not of any use. Is the 2004 tsunami a man-made catastrophe? Is the earthquake in Aiti or the Iceland's volcanic eruption man-ignited? And what about the Katrina in New Orleans? Did the American army test its system on its own people?
No. We should not rush. There is nothing unreal in all these catastrophes, at least at first sight. However, one should be vigilant. With the existence of systems like HAARP & SURA, Americans and Russians can play and bet and know the end result. And that means money. Why? Because Weather = Economy. A slight change in weather affect cultivation thus food prices and it is all a chain. An event like a typhoon or a volcanic eruption affects transportatoin thus again the economy. It is like the world betting on horses that are all owned by the same people that organise the bets too.
With HAARP there, it is naif to think the Americans won't use it for non-military, purely financial reasons. They have done it already with project ECHELON, a military espionage project of all means of communication (that predates internet itself) that was finally equally used to give American businesses critical information. So they will do it, if not already with HAARP.
Again though, jumping to explain all future natural events as HAARP is no good. Better set up service watching the skies - HAARP or SURA activity IS easily detectable if you set up a team monitoring the atmosphere for such activity. Whenever detectable it should be declared and Americans/Russians (or Chinese etc.) should be called to pay the fine.
Complain about this comment
If the problem is only for jet engines, why are propeller engined aircraft not being used? And what about helicopters?
They won't clear the backlog, but surely some could bu utilised to bring people back over from the near continent.
Complain about this comment
#6
If there is a risk from the ash getting into the aircraft engines and doing damage then the cost to the airlines is not just a plane crashing, but the refitting of all the engines on all the aircraft in their fleet. I think this would be much more than the cost of one crash. I don't think they would really want to fly if this was at all likely. They'd protect millions in revenue now for billions of cost in the near future.
Complain about this comment
Better to caution on the side of safety. Couple of plane loads of people go down and it becomes difficult to justify the decision to fly when the motivation is profit.
Complain about this comment
Running 'test flights' and putting pressure on the authorities to reopen airspace is just propaganda from the airlines.
They know as well as anyone that with the normal number of flights (thousands per day) the chances of one flight crashing are unacceptably high.
Oh no, what they're trying to do is to put the risk for the measures on the authorities. They want their 'bale out'.
Volcanoes have happened before. They're rare, but they are a known quantity. The airlines should have prepared for the small risk of it happening. If they didn't, then it's tough luck.
You don't see the airlines offering to pay extra taxes when they have extrodinary profits due to, say, there being great weather in Spain or a big club making the Champions League final.
So why should we bail them out now?
Complain about this comment
It is time to face our cruel reality of this outcome since it is an unfolding event.
It seems to be a sort of a hard reckoning time regarding nature functioning and human endeavors.
The economic power is inducing a strong influence but the risk is already set at a high stake.
Considering the failing on public leadership like a spreading worldwide obesity, economic meltdown, war businesses, invading another country illegally and for oil, atomic power bullying of countries by Obama administration like all predecessors instead of pursuing a more honest venue.
How much should I a single consumer trust governments and institutions taking a flight that may fall down because of misguided supervision or just businesses pressure having weak concern for safety of people.
Let’s be honest because the public is constantly deceived on constant mismanagement. Mr. Obama accepted a Nobel Peace Prize while sending 30,000 soldiers to Afghanistan. This matches with the war support since Mr. Alfred Nobel packed wealth by developing dynamite. I mean, war and peace are businesses to collect rewards. Mr. Obama assigned a near obese lady Dr. Regina Benjamin as General Surgeon of the US letting his wife worry about obesity while one-third of Americans are getting obese dragging the world toward a worsening obesity catastrophe predicted to reach 85% by 2040 if the trend continues. Health staff are obese like regular citizens not using their own expertise.
As far as we know volcanoes can erupt usually for two months but it can be a year or even having a bigger event that nobody can say with any certainty what is the outcome.
The terrorism now is just called Nature on its unpredictable development regarding some specific functioning.
As a PhD deeply knowing the functioning of science and pursuing a ‘scientific discovery’ in the US my honest advice is to bear in your mind that something very ugly is coming and get ready for changes and hope nature has some leniency. Try not to trust much government as they are humans not so perfect in their functioning sometimes misguiding their own kind to avoidable mistakes.
The purpose of life is surviving as judicious decisions may ensure a long standing existence for each of us.
Complain about this comment
The first and immediate step should be test flights between UK airports by pilotless airplanes of the type used by the military in Afghanistan. If no problems are reported within 24 hours, then there should be a resumption of air cargo flights from all around the world into UK airports, piloted by volunteer crew. If no problems of any kind are reported by cargo aircraft within another 48 hours then passenger flights should be resumed to and from all destinations that do not involve flying over Iceland.
Complain about this comment
For the life of me, I can not understand why the Britis talk as if the misery is limited to Britons. Watching BBC in the hotel here at heathrow, they keep saying "oh we need to get people back home" How about those of us who want to get the hell out of their country? I never liked it here the U.K. and I wish I got stranded in Germany or any other European country other than the U.K. These so called govt officials here in the U.K. have no clue on civil aviation and they do not know what it means to do experiment like the airlines did. Go test the air than sitting on their behinds looking at FASLE computer simulations. Now, they are latching on to NATO fighter jets seeing engine damage, but what kind of engine do they have compared to Boeing or Airbus commercial planes, fly those F-16 on the same route as those commercial flights. Let us get the HELL out of this country, PLEASE!!! This goes to show why the U.K. is declining in its standing and becoming irrelevant pretty soon.
Complain about this comment
Can anyone blaming HAARP for this actually explain to me, rationally and scientifically, how HAARP could possibly cause this? I like a good conspiracy theory, but blaming EVERY natural disaster on HAARP and some nefarious NWO agenda with zero evidence whatsoever is tiresome. How can an ionispheric heater influence tectonic activity? How can it do so in such a controlled and localised way as to ensure the resultant eruption didn't run out of control or trigger the much larger nearby systems? Is it also simultaneously generating the prevailing winds to blow this ash cloud over Europe rather than elsewhere? How come nobody has detected it in operation, or are we to assume the entire global scientific community are part of the plot? Does that include EISCAT? Indeed, do the HAARP conspiracists even know what EISCAT is?
Complain about this comment
Anybody who believes the u-turn by the airlines who are now claiming flying is safe, deserves to fall out of the sky at 600mph.
The airlines should be ashamed of themselves. If there is ANY risk at all (which there is - there are 82 recorded incidents of jet engine failure due to volcanic ash) flights should remain grounded.
Complain about this comment
The aircraft manufacturers are emphatic on the point of Volcanic Ash. It should be avoided at ALL costs.
If you don't believe me - read for yourself. The first line says everything you need to know. But feel free to read more if you wish..
[Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]
Complain about this comment
I developed a new system to exchange energy between inertial and rotating power that was supposed to be delivering some alternative functioning to curb this sort of air contamination. Masstubarc is a system that keeps a constant air flow and energy is converted in the geometry or rotating arcs borrowing deep conceptions from Hydrogeology regarding molecular connectivity on mass flow dynamics.
But, my first issued patent in the US is being violated by lazy patent flaws because Hydrology is handled by lay people in the patenting affairs. My new conceptions in hydrodynamics are not that new, but standing on scientific literature for more than a century. My ‘scientific discovery’ makes around 50,000 patents obsolete and opens room for about 200,000 new ones. I already sent 11 letter to Mr. Obama just demanding that USPTO stop violating my IP rights and make Hydrologists examine Hydrological issues. When advanced science is shamefully violated by lazy lay people is because something fishy is going on on leadership and people who think that they hold power means how ignorant they are about Nature.
I have been telling them: ‘What is the chance that a lay person flying a kite would develop airplanes by skirting aerodynamics?’
Consequences build up as governments ignore science and honesty. I told Mr. Obama that this simple Economic Meltdown would be prevented by a simple equation; investment = investment + profit purging gambling and risk when greed and fears mars simple laws of offer and demand. Now people can guess what will happen again with the worldwide economy as European and this volcano outcome gets worse.
I understand this situation as a minor rearrangement and opportunity to learn about modern life and nature complexity. I personally do not feel much pressure and eagerness to bring forward my contribution to human affairs as modern man is having a hard time to cope with this new environment plenty of food and no need of body exercise leading to a massive sedentarism. I do my regular jogging and control my diet and I pay attention to those ones geniuses how big are their bellies on controlling their own lives.
What is deeply missing in the world is HONESTY.
Complain about this comment
A very tricky situation. On the one hand lives of air passengers should not be put at any undue risk; they are not guinea pigs. On the other hand over-caution could be the death knell of airlines! So passenger safety has to balanced with accurate reading of the fall-out of volcanic ash
Complain about this comment
I like Freeborn John's comment. Fly some drones then resume cargo flights.
They talk about computer models. Can't they get air samples from weather balloons or somehow and analyze the number of particulates and compare these to the air quality above Glasgow of yesteryear or Mexico City today?
Not all computer models are valid. I am all for safety, but let's make sure we are using valid criteria. However, I recall that a volcano erupted in the Philippines a number of years ago which disrupted air travel for ten days.
Complain about this comment
I developed a new system to exchange energy between inertial and rotating power that was supposed to be delivering some alternative functioning to curb this sort of air contamination. Masstubarc is a system that keeps a constant air flow and energy is converted in the geometry or rotating arcs borrowing deep conceptions from Hydrogeology regarding molecular connectivity on mass flow dynamics.
But, my first issued patent in the US is being violated by lazy patent flaws because Hydrology is handled by lay people in the patenting affairs. My new conceptions in hydrodynamics are not that new, but standing on scientific literature for more than a century. My ‘scientific discovery’ makes around 50,000 patents obsolete and opens room for about 200,000 new ones. I already sent 11 letter to Mr. Obama just demanding that USPTO stop violating my IP rights and make Hydrologists examine Hydrological issues. When advanced science is shamefully violated by lazy lay people is because something fishy is going on on leadership and people who think that they hold power means how ignorant they are about Nature.
I have been telling them: ‘What is the chance that a lay person flying a kite would develop airplanes by skirting aerodynamics?’
Consequences build up as governments ignore science and honesty. I told Mr. Obama that this simple Economic Meltdown would be prevented by a simple equation; investment = investment + profit purging gambling and risk when greed and fears mars simple laws of offer and demand. Now people can guess what will happen again with the worldwide economy as European and this volcano outcome gets worse.
I understand this situation as a minor rearrangement and opportunity to learn about modern life and nature complexity. I personally do not feel much pressure and eagerness to bring forward my contribution to human affairs as modern man is having a hard time to cope with this new environment plenty of food and no need of body exercise driving to a massive sedentarism. I do my regular jogging and control my diet and I pay attention to those ones geniuses how big are their bellies on controlling their own lives.
The scenario now varies from minor losses if the volcano stops spewing this plume immediately to long term activity likely impregnating all air masses around the globe making flying a risky activity handicapping much of the human affairs regarding air transportation.
What is deeply missing in the world is HONESTY that would attenuate most of our dilemmas.
Complain about this comment
Ironic, isnt it. They stop passengers from getting on board planes after drinking in the airport bar because of "safety" (even though they're happy to throw you as much plonk as you like in business class, in order to keep everyone quiet......)....they close runways when there's the slightest hint of frost because of "safety"......
But when theres a massive cloud of abrasive rock dust floating in the sky, sufficient to make a jet engine seize up and the plane to fall out of the sky, Mr.Walsh and co suddenly want to ignore safety, rubbish the experts, and once again the "to hell with everything except money" rules supreme.
Go and do another test flight Mr.Walsh - I'll stand clear when your plane falls out of the sky (if I can stand up for laughing, that is).
Complain about this comment
As (little as) I understand ash and aviation, the problem is rather the lack of understanding the cloud and eventual damage, and lack of related procedures.
I believe in longer term we will see a lot of related technological development, such as more dust-proof engines, airplanes equipped with ash-sensors, disposable windscreen covers, and at the other end various redirection procedures for air traffic controllers. Currently we need to do too much guess-work and ad hoc solutions. For instance, can we fly below 15000 feet and deducing from satellite images where are the safe routes? My be is that no one really knows.
Just wait for 10 years ;-)
Complain about this comment
Volcanoes erupt frequently without creating this sort of chaos. e.g. Mount St. Helens. According to Wikipedia: "Over 1.5 million metric tons of sulfur dioxide were released into the atmosphere... plume of ash erupted reaching 12 to 16 miles (20 to 27 km) above sea level. The plume moved eastward at an average speed of 60 miles per hour (100 km/h) with ash reaching Idaho by noon. Ashes from the eruption were found collecting on top of cars and roofs next morning, as far as the city of Edmonton in Alberta, Canada." No doubt some flights were cancelled, but there is nothing in Wikipedia about shutting down the Western USA -- or about any planes crashing as a result. Simplistic either/or statements about either being safe or flying miss the point: this appears to be a panicked overreaction.
Complain about this comment
It's one thing opening the airspace and allowing planes to fly, it's another whether the insurance companies will insure travellers and planes given the risk and finally it's another thing all together whether any right minded passengers will dare to risk their lives and fly in such risky times. The world is waiting and watching. Good luck to the first few who take to the skies amidst such risks. No judgement here we all have our own reasons.
Complain about this comment
I understand that at present planes do not carry instruments to measure volcanic ash. Can't the technology of smoke detectors be adapted so that pilots can be alerted to dangerous level of ash and go to a higher altitude?
The plane that got in trouble in Indonesia was not as far from the Indonesian volcanic eruption as Europe is from Iceland. It is not surprising that the concentration of ash was significant.
When Mt St Helen in Washington State erupted in 1980, how wide was the circle of closed airports there and for how long?
Finally, can filters be devised for the fronts of jet engines to keep put the ash, ... as well as flocks of birds?
Complain about this comment
Interestingly both Lufthansa and the IATA's view is that "Decisions should be based on real situations and not theoretical models". Ironic, then, that world leaders are basing their significantly more socially-critical global climate change decisions on similar computational models, in the absence of real convincing empirical data.
Complain about this comment
#20
"I never liked it here the U.K" "How about those of us who want to get the hell out of their country?"
Hmm, let me think about this for a second, spend resources getting our people home or resources booting you out? Tough one.
If you hurry to Portsmouth, maybe you can get on board Ark Royal, Albion or Ocean. You can then discuss the merits of the UK with the Navy. I'm sure they'd be sympathetic. If all else fails you can always swim for it, i think its only 22 miles from Dover to Calais.
Complain about this comment
No. 20 (Jason) and others who are critical of computer models:
A lot of test have actually been done in the air, mainly by NERC, and the show that the ban is (was) the right decision.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/wiltshire/8629328.stm
Complain about this comment
If a passenger and/or airline is not convinced is safe, then they will not fly. Right now that option does not exist. In the end even if the airspace is re-opened, passengers may still winded up not thinking is safe and not fly.
I do agree safety uncompromisable, but right now I have seen no exact definition. I have not seen any aerospace engineers talk about how much dust is too much dust, and is that detectable under current means. The models that used to forecast where the dust is are probably models that are used to forecast movement of air pollutants (like where the "gunk" from forest fires and factories are going); they are different with climate models that are used deal global warming issues. Comparison between air pollution models with climate models are inappropriate.
I believe the decision to close airspace or not, should be based on current best knowledge of the science and engineering but not politics. I think a public open clarification is necessary.
Complain about this comment
Those who call EU USSR have their day.
With Brussels unable to come up with any coherent decision, pro or con, for 5 days.
SNAFU as US military parlance goes: situation normal, all f.ed up.
Complain about this comment
Beware of "Get-Home-ites". "Get-Home-ites" in the aviation world can be deadly and has been deadly. As an example, pilots sometimes feel pressure (real or imagined) from their management to avoid making a go-around to save fuel. They try to force a landing when the only safe thing to do is go-around and try again. The result is they go off the end of the runway often resulting in fatalities. "Get-Home-ites" is not limited to aviation. We push the limits in our daily lives sometimes with unpleasant consequences.
The Iceland volcano is creating an enormous case of "Get-Home-ites". Passengers are putting intense pressure on the airlines and EU authorities to get them underway. The airlines are putting enormous pressure on the EU authorities to allow them to fly. Their motivation stems from passenger pressure and the airline's bottom line. There is also political pressure. What this does is gradually erode the safety margins in the aviation system.
A lot has been said and written about engines shutting down in flight and windshields being sand-blasted to a point where the crew cannot see outside. These are of course the most immediate dangers. Another danger that is not getting much if any coverage is the affect of ash on the avionics equipment onboard the airplane. I expect (hope) it is getting a lot of attention in the aviation industry. Airplanes have racks (shelves) of avionics boxes that are cooled by air that is now contaminated by ash. Flying through ash clouds will contaminate this equipment. Flying through heavy ash will shut down engines, sand-blast the windshields and airplane structure and destroy the electronics boxes. Giving into pressure to fly through light ash may not have those immediate effects, but it will create problems with the avionics components over time, which, if not inspected more frequently, will cause problems (maybe emergecy conditions) later. This is where the safety margins are compromised.
Complain about this comment
The question is what is the risk. We all know that cars, buses, trains, boats and planes have an element of risk. We have accidents and flying is probably the safest form of transport. Therefore is this a situation where the risk is less than driving from point A to point B does that mean all roads should be closed as the danger of driving is too great. So its not that there is a risk it is the magnitude of that risk compared to all the other risks that exist on a daily basis. There are always particles in the air and if flying at 40,000 ft you are above the cloud and i,m sure that there are ways the dense clouds can be avioded the same with very violent weather, which is detected by onboard weather radar. Therefore there is always a risk just by stepping outside and its easier for a beaureaucrat to work on the basis of if there is a risk the answer must be no because otherwise a degree of judgement is nescesary. In this case I believe the reaction has been too severe.
Complain about this comment
To "commonsense_expressway" You actually made my point that the U.K. govt has no means to extract its citizen as close as Spain. They claim to have 150K of their own stranded all around the world and all they could muster was 3 amphibious ships with max capacity of 1K!!!! You are better off seeking help from your superiors at the Pentagon for logistical arrangements as they have world class capability.
To " PragueImp" , if the computer model was anywhere close to accuracy, why would the airlines find vast chunks of the air space free of the ash cloud? The computer model has all of northern Europe blanketed with this ash cloud. The closest computer model is the one that came out of a Norwegian university.
To "SimonL", if what you are saying is correct (I do not doubt otherwise anyway), why would the airlines ignore it because flying the aircrafts in such conditions is far more costly than staying grounded as they will be on the hook to remodel their engines or completely replace them. Sorry, I trust private enterprises to know the cost benefit analysis of any decision they make than govt fat cats.
Complain about this comment
I haven't seen all the messages here - the blog is being spammed by a big number of irrelevant postings - but I can say that the German authorities are making a test flight, which is going to make measurements in the air of the ash layer. It should provide a better foundation for a decision.
Complain about this comment
In Russia it has been described from the beg as "liquid glass".
That volcanoes erupt in different modes, some keep to "lava" ? that black thing crawling :o), chemical composition of all volcano contents is different.
This very one was erupting something more "standard", in the beg. but then set into liquid glass production.
This is tiny (up to 2mm in size) glassy particles; if they are not tinted by other volcano additives - you don't see them at all.
I don't know if this means that on a good sunny day you don't see this "glass roof", of un-tinted partciles, hooverng 10 km above. May be.
May be not all of it is dirty and smoked, like in the immediate proximity to the volcano itself, where many more things of that volcano foam and smoke. How to say.
Anyway Russian airplanes fly but may be because we are crazy Russians :o)))))) taking chances, how to say.
They didn't even spare Medvedev :o))); he flew to Warsaw yesterday and back, and - judging by the map - European part of Russia is well under the cloud like absolutely everyone else, same density.
While Ukrainians - drove to the ceremony, and absolutely everyone else who got there - drove.
Complain about this comment
I'm not going to fly anywhere until that volcano stops spreading ash around. For me the pictures taken from the engine of an Finnish F-18 that flew in the ash cloud are enough.
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2010/04/16/340727/pictures-finnish-f-18-engine-check-reveals-effects-of-volcanic.html
However what this natural crisis shows up are the benefits on having multiple competitive transport options in Europe, for example mass transport in form of rail and road transport. Unfortunately for us consumers, I feel it is not yet as easy and comfortable to buy rail tickets to travel between European countries as it should be.
For example many of my friends and acquaintances have been stranded on different places in Europe. What I have been reading about their travel plans, it seems that they are more or less suboptimal, costing too much and taking too long time. When I myself tried to look on how I could get from London to Stockholm, the only site that seemed to work nicely and give me what I wanted was RailEurope ( http://www.raileurope.com ), and even it didn't work as it should have, I had to split my trip in two trips to make it. In the end the trip would have cost 286 euros and lasted for approx two days to get from London to Stockholm.
Maybe one thing that the EU and national officials should do is to push national railway and road transit operators to publish their transport timetables in free standards formats and make an open standard for reserving tickets. This would allow either national operators or new entrants like e-ticket sellers to offer optimal multi-modal transportation from place A to B.
Complain about this comment
Helicopters we heard safe. Well, not OUR helicopters :o))))
Complain about this comment
To the comments in #37 I can say that the situation is unprecedented, and if there should be any doubt: American authorities are not able to help.
German authorities ordered a test air plane to go up in the air at the same moment as the ban came. Only scientist had to find out how to equip the aeroplane.
We are expecting results very soon, perhaps tonight.
Complain about this comment
Re No. 40 - Jason:
The airlines say they can't SEE the cloud. NERC say that it is what you can't see that does the damage. Storm radars and other equipment (which airliners carry) don't pick it up. The NERC equipment picked it up, even though the skies looked clear. The airlines didn't use any special equipment, only their eyes!
I accept that the models may not be particularly good, but the evidence collected in the sky is accurate.
Complain about this comment
I can certainly understand the frustration of stranded passengers but due to the ash cloud incident I have accidentally came across IATA's Giovanni Bisignani's remarks that there shouldn't have been a ban over Europe. I think it is a very poor judgment oh his part. He doesn't seem to care for anything else except money. Europe made the right decision to stop air traffic when people's lives is at stake. Anything into those engines would make the plane dive like a hawk. Himself and the Airlines should think carefully before making such light statements, judgment calls and come back to reality before a disaster happens.
Complain about this comment
The latest:
ARD, German television 1, writes that data from the research flight are expected on Tuesday (tomorrow).
Complain about this comment
# 6 MarcusAurellius
Isn´t Brown your favorite color ?
First Europe then the world ?
Complain about this comment
I don't understand what Europeans are crying about. Surely they must realize that to cut back CO2 emissions by 60 to 80 percent the way environmentalists tell us we will have to if we want to save the planet then some industries like airlines will just have to go by the wayside. Europeans are getting a taste of what they were demanding to be imposed on America just the way they did when Russia cut off their gas in the winter a couple of times. They don't like it. Too bad, get used to it, it's your future. I don't know if it is my future but it is Europe's. Not only could this go on for a year or more but there's a much bigger one near it that goes off about once a century and the last time was 1918. I'd get accustomed to riding the rails and other ground transportation. Where's that stiff upper lip you Brits are supposed to be so famous for, quivering like the lower one? This will teach people the risks of air travel. Highly over rated. To those 40,000 Americans stuck there, you would have been far better off to "See the USA in your Chevrolet." :-)
WA;
To the people really running Russia, Medvedev is expendable, Putin is not. You haven't seen him flying anywhere have you?
Complain about this comment
Mavrelius, it's not enough you are the cause of the right turn in Hungary :o))))))))))))judging by the other blog summary; you are also into flying patterns?
You really want to know why Medvedev flew and all the others incl. your Obama-mama chickened out?
It is because with Poland we are, how to say, answering with a return courtesy, feel obliged to risk presidents, once they began.
Putin don't worry will fly through 10 volcanoes, if you haven't noticed yet :o)))))) He doesn't have to prove anything.
And Polish president risked and died on our ground, that's why, how to say, it's taken for granted, position obliges, it had to be Russian president there, and exactly flying.
Complain about this comment
I've seen the list; Poland expected 14 major countries' heads.
Complain about this comment
WA;
"It is because with Poland we are, how to say, answering with a return courtesy, feel obliged to risk presidents, once they began."
It might be more believeable if the Russian air force shot his plane out of the sky so that he died too, dontcha think? That would prove how sorry Russia really is :-)
Complain about this comment
WA;
"Mavrelius, it's not enough you are the cause of the right turn in Hungary :o))))))))))))"
Which country do you want me to turn next and what direction do you want me to turn it in? Veee haf vays :-)
"I've seen the list; Poland expected 14 major countries' heads."
You know what they say, head will roll. Only this time they didn't. I don't think anyone really wanted to go and the volcano gave them a perfect excuse not to. I'll bet President Obama-nation wishes he could send Sarah Palin in his place.
Complain about this comment
Mavrelius, Poland knew that Medevedev is coming. (If anything, nevermind un-reliable others - on Russia Poland can always count.)
I continue my thought. After a small interruption :o)))))))))))))))))
So; they had all time in the world to prepare - ? rapidly plant birch trees around their airport, organise fog type "whole Belorussia plus a bit on the side", like a week ago, ? speak to our "Board Number One" in Polish (though I don't think this last one would help :o)))))) when speaking - unlike writing - Polish is understandable, ?
Then our jet propulsion aircraft would be crawling in their ravine, 30 metres below the run-way, in the river bed - and asking the way.
Complain about this comment
What I mean it is simply silly to look for Russia's reasons to shoot out Polish presidents in the air.
We just began making peace with Poland.
And, anyway, how to say - Poland has a back-up of Kachinsky twin brother, their ex Prime Minister (no, it's not Russia who invented tandem-ocracy :o), of exactly the same opinion about us as the late Polish President, and who is likely to compete in the next Polish Presidential elections.
And the other candidate, now - acting Polish President, Komarowsky - is also, how to say :o)))), shares sympathies.
Complain about this comment
I blame the harp war on terroir and this FASLE thing where oh where is your shopkeeper flotilla now Britania?
Complain about this comment
Marcus, we said this before: officially we treat this unfortunate incident as accident. From there on if it
1) Circles within Poland
2) Russia or circles within Russia
3) EU or circles within EU
4) US or circles within US
5) US-EU circles
1) This is very unprobable. If he was murdered it should have been for a particular policy of his. Anyone resenting the Russo-Polish approach would had murdered in place the prime minister instead as he is the one that worked most for this.
2) This is also very unprobable. Russia did a very big effort working all these years to approach Poland. Last thing it would need is to spoil all that image. The Russian military airport was very persisent in trying to convince the pilot to land elsewhere since he could not find the right landing position. Russian reaction to the accident was also sincere as was their will to do the investigations along with Polish investigators. They seem to have to hide nothing.
3) Surprisingly here there are a bit more possibilities. Not so probable but not as easily ruled out as 1 & 2. Kazinski was not very fond of following everything EU said; who knows? Perhaps this hit could be a message to all those less powerful countries not to step where they should not go.
4) This is the most probable case of all. Poland, after seeing what it loses by resenting everything about Russia, now is on a path of approaching Russia instead. There is absolutely no way that this is any positive for US, it is downright negative. It is on the interests of US to have every single neighbouring country of Russia against it and US actively funds all that. Hence, PM and president of Poland clearly stepped whete they shouldn't - as per US - thus a little murder could teach them a lesson or two...
5) As possible as 4, though it should had been US the organiser as in Europe more or less only the MI5 is in position to organise such an incident.
Marcus we say that lacking proof of the contrary we treat this as accident. But the above analysis holds well for the case of this accident having been a murder.
Even more when we have the information less than a month, there was a retrofit on the presidential Tupolef of American equipment placed by "western teams", not by Tupolef (Russian or Polish) teams. Even more when this equipement was actually "enhanced flight system" equipments. I am an engineer and I work in a relevant field (I am more on projects, not technical but have a solid basic nuderstanding) so it is not hard to imagine a little button that shows the airplane 30-40 meters above where it is. The repeated failures of the pilot to find the correct altitude so as to land the airplane on the corridor based on instructions by the tower give fuel to that suspicion. Note that the tower was repeatedly noting the wrong position of the aircraft, yet the pilot would had been more based on his own equipment. That is the more risky way to do this - the most safe and easiest is to have installed a full automatic guidance system and provoked the loss of altitude at the right moment.
We will never learn the truth for exactly the same reason we never learnt the truth in similar other cases like the death of the Greek co-minister of external affairs back in 1996 etc. Say it is proven someone killed him. Who will go out say it to the people? What? Poland will go on war? Or demand war reparations? Let us speak seriously. They will simply sit down, shut up and swallow the information. The case will remain officially an accident.
Personally I have not concluded. It could indeed had been an accident. But there are elements (like the retrofit) that do seem suspicious.
Complain about this comment
As for the ban, we said this. Even if the risk of having an incident is a bit less than 0,5% - there are several hundreds of airplanes and taken for granted that meterologic conditions can be quite unpredictable you never know where you end up with a high particule concentration and when the plane reaches it it is too late. Risking the lifes of 100 people is not justified on the basis of the loss of 2-3 days and the equivalent revenu.
The decision to shut off almost all Europe was quite extreme (only parts of northern Europe were effectively touched) but safety comes first. So it was a good decision, no need to argue on that. Anyone having a different opinion should rather start protesting on the use of aircrafts. It is this this obscolete, high complexity, bad designs we use that we have, and that is how much we can do with it.
Complain about this comment
57. At 09:02am on 20 Apr 2010, Lard_Cheeses wrote:
I blame the harp war on terroir and this FASLE thing where oh where is your shopkeeper flotilla now Britania?
"the harp war on terroir" - the what?
"this FASLE thing" - the what?
"where oh where is your shopkeeper flotilla" - the what?
Complain about this comment
58. At 09:15am on 20 Apr 2010, Nik wrote:
"Marcus, we said this before: officially we treat this unfortunate incident as accident. From there on if it
...
3) EU or circles within EU
...
3) Surprisingly here there are a bit more possibilities. Not so probable but not as easily ruled out as 1 & 2. Kazinski was not very fond of following everything EU said; who knows? Perhaps this hit could be a message to all those less powerful countries not to step where they should not go.
..."
EUpris: "Surprisingly" ?? It don't surprise me Mate!
The imposition of the Lisbon Treaty has shown that the "EU" is a sick, arrogant, anti-democratic, megalomaniac monster run by sick, arrogant, anti-democratic, megalomaniac people or at least in part by disgusting apparatchiks and opportunists who have been prepared to go along with such people.
They have shown that they do not have the normal sense of democracy and decency that many (most?) people have.
It would not be surprising if their fascism at the political level would translate into fascism at the physical level. Indeed, it would be surprising if it did not.
If now "EU"-lovers who did not protest at the anti-democratic imposition of the Lisbon Treaty get unjustly accused of a crime it is partly their own fault because the assumption/suspicion of guilt is based in part on their previous despicable behaviour.
Complain about this comment
WA;
"Mavrelius, Poland knew that Medevedev is coming. (If anything, nevermind un-reliable others - on Russia Poland can always count.)"
Once in a while a it's Okay to have a house guest but eventually even the most congenial ones can wear out their welcome. C'mon WA, they came for an overnight stay in 1939 and didn't leave for fifty years. Don't you think that's overstaying your welcome by just a little bit?
Complain about this comment
Nik;
"Even more when we have the information less than a month, there was a retrofit on the presidential Tupolef of American equipment placed by "western teams", not by Tupolef (Russian or Polish) teams."
This only goes to prove the old saying that you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Why didn't the Poles just dump that piece of junk and get a nice 747 the way the US President's have?
Complain about this comment
I'm quite sure that 'more EU' is somehow the best solution to solve this 'crisis'... /sarc
Has anyone seen the EU politburo kommissar for aviation policy anywhere?
Complain about this comment
It is a good job the continent has a decent rail system unlike the huge pile of failure we have here.
Complain about this comment
Re63: Marcus, indeed, while Russian military planes are superb, their civil airplanes were considered as the poor relatives - anyway back in the USSR days not as many people took the airplane as in the west, despite the long distances involved in Russia only and that for reasons of lack of private businesses and extensive touristic motion (these two give birth to the majority of aviation clients). Russian planes were conceived - I guess here - to have a somehow "easier lifecycle". That in combination with the disruption in the mid-1990s led to worse maintenance and the increase of accidents. I guess disruption came as the Tupolefs and Antonofs (passenger & cargo transportation aircraft constructors) were heavily relied in factories in Ukraine and as Ukraine went independent there was a hesitation as to what level their future relationship would be. Ukrainians realised quite late that they are not in position to do anything else than make parts for the Russians and that their production units were totally incompatible with the west - shifting to supply the west would simply require the re-building of new units something that Ukraine was not in position to do alone. So the whole situation created considerable delays not only in terms of production of retrofits that occur normally throughout the lifecycle of a plane but also on the design and production of future aircrafts with Russian remaining largely with old stuff and now its civil aviation companies like Aeroflot bying Airbuses to replace its ageing Tupolefs and Antonofs.
The whole situation resulted in the specific Tupolef of the Polish president has been involved in a statistically important number of accidents in the last 20 years and while a number of accidents had other explanations (like the bad maintenance of Eastern block airports, the understandably lower motivation of extremely badly paid people working there etc., the plane is indeed known to be a bit of an airplane of past eras to put it simple. Let alone giving often an unpleasant flight experience as it is quite a rough ride. So yes it is high-time that companies replace it with a new Airbus, Boeing, Embraer or whatever new the Russian aviation industry will produce in future.
So, yes Marcus, I had the same questioning as you: why did the Polish keep it for presidential transportation? Not that I have any particular suspicions there as in the motives but I really do appreciate the modestry of Polish politicians not wanting to burden their people with such expenses and using their airplanes till the end. I guess that was not a "presidential plane" but a plane of the military that is used on such occasions and the Polish military is still having things from the old Russian armaments (I am sure they buy western stuff nowadays...). It is quite refreshing to see politicians trying to cut expenses there. I wish we had the same in Greece where politicians buy every year or so the newest Mercedes model (that is where the Germans also come into picture with their bribes of course!) then they lend it along with the driver to the wife to do shopping to distract her cos the guy is on another Mercedes heading to his rdv with his new girlfriend... all at the expense of the Greek people. No I am not joking, it is like that.
Complain about this comment
Is there an agreement somewhere that says that the governments are the insurers of the airline industry. Seems and insurance company would be in order to insure companies from losses caused by natural events. If a storm prevents a local shop from opening the government doesn't compensate the owner for losses. The ruling class has taken a lesson from the bankers and realized that weak governments are willing to spend taxpayer money to bailout the private sector in the name of some distant and undefined economic recovery. Captialism is now defined as profits insured by the public...serfdom in the modern world.
Complain about this comment
"Why didn't the Poles just dump that piece of junk and get a nice 747"
Piece of junk?
Mavrelius, in the thread about you and I "new beginning" :o))))))
viewcode gave the acting link to the Professional Pilots Rumour Network/pprune. The blog that discusses the Polish President aircraft catastrophe.
I am keeping an eye on it, as you understand, alongside 3 other aviation blogs, interested - may be someone solve the riddle sooner than the Investigation Committee.
Now, to say I am pleasantly surprise, about foreign pilots opinion of TU-154 - is to say nothing. If you read that blog (exclusively in English :o)))) must say) one actually wonders why your "nice 747" are in air at all :o))))))
And absolutely all who had the luck to compare piloting TU154 and the newer foreign options (read ex-socialistic world campus), are, how to say :o))))))
In short they say it's very durable, strong built, able to fly -40 +40 come storm thunderstorm snow blizzard desert sand blizzard, takes 1,000 m of runway to land nicely and just 800m should the need be, has reverse something allowing it to stand still like a horse stopped in full gallop (when needed), many suspect it can, like Iluishins of all sizes land on grass without a wink (because Ils are twice heavier; 70 ton Ils do land on grass and fields, double "wheels" in front) in other words quite a lot of compliments to that old Soviet production. The summary :"One should really work hard to destroy this aircraft".
And something about "modern plastic" :o)))))))
Complain about this comment
And as it just demonstrated last week - getting out of the hole, the ravine 30 m below the very runway level - into which it got, in the first place - due to clever navigation -
is able to go up from the landing mode - which is quite a chnage of mode of operation for a plane with wheels out about to land in the wrong place, and clipping tree tops 2.5 m from the ground -
the TU154M - in 4 seconds they had - made it up.
Got out of the hole, vertically up - nearly after the touch down, gained the whole distance it lost, flew OVER the road, cars, and lamp posts and electricity lines without touching them - which, I would say - is safe 10 meters on top of the 30 - and , well, yes, :o( crashed , on the other side of the road.
It had a bad luck of losing a wing, when cutting the tree tops inside the ravine. 1/2 of it.
Even without the wing - it still did this breath-taking trick.
Because loss of a wing is not critical for TU.
They were steadily demosntrating the same ability - in several accidents before - lost a wing on runway clashing with another plane - still takes up into the air, MAKES A CIRCLE round the airport - and safely lands back again.
It's, as all aviators in all blogs ww agree - some ailerons, on the left wing side, that got broken after the wing was torn, opening the liguid tubes from where the liquid needed, how to say, to be able to operate the plane, change its direction in the air - it poured out together with the wing.
And even not that ruined it!
Because the tubes in which this liquid is - are one finger width only, quite narrow, and there were still time while the liquid was floating out - but TU was still operatable! how to say, they were able to chnage its direction of flying! and did operate it - without one wing, with liquid pouring out - getting out of the ravine - and keeping the level.
They nearly made it, were simply lacking time.
Because of the loss of the liquid and pressure in tubes and crane 90% on the left side - the plane flew vertically tinted, how to say - it's incredible thing - it was passing vertically, slim, how to say, - BETWEEN TREES, BETWEEN GARAGES, AT 2.5 METRES FROM THE GROUND - imagine - a plane with wing span 40 m - flying between structures staying 20 metres apart - NOT TOUCHING THE THINGS ON THE SIDES.
Doing it on one side! BLIND. In complete fog, condensed in the low river bed.
No film rejisseur will be ever able to repeat WHAT POLISH PILOTS DID IN THAT TU154M, to survive.
They simply lacked time, time was working against them. They understood they are in that deep hole, ravine, 30 m below the run-way - instead of 60 m above it - too late.
Eventually the liquid poured out, the plane level keeping became un-controllable, the loss of the left wing sent it craning deeper and deeper.
What pilots forums think has happened - is they were still pressing GAS! to go up, up to continue climbing out of the ravine (and you won't blame them, doing that and only that, after the discovery they are ground level).
This up, up - was not "up, up", from some point of plane crane.
It became "down, down", at full speed, the same very engines were mightily pushing the plane actually DOWN, once it turned over in the air. And thus in full speed they first got up, and then at the same full speed aimed down.
Even without the half of the left wing - it did these Spielberg-worthy film circus tricks, of getting out of the hole - with no decision time
Complain about this comment
Re67: Hmmm you should know that various sectors of economy have the power to blackmail governments. They say for example that "if you do not help us" we collectively agree to raise say 30% prices and let the citizens pay out. Governments afraid of the social backlash they do pay as it is less visible than citizens paying it directly, travelling less, thus less business, less tax etc... You know how it goes...
Complain about this comment
What kind of navigation brought the TU154M to the bottom of the ravine, pre-road above, and pre-runway, that starts beyond the road - we are all waiting to know.
Polish Prosecutor General was to make public results of the record taken inside the pilot's cabin last week. Last Thursday. Then they said they will wait till the funeral. Then they said it will be on Monday (yesterday). Then they said it will be this coming Thursday - so not long to wait.
Except that no one aviator-related person in the multiple aviation blogs that I have read believes they will release the full record, but rather that political bargaining is being done now, and what will be released - will be backing the "reason" - whatever that reason will be appointed "to be". Needless to say all would love the full record - because way to many pilots fly TU154 daily - fly it to the airports directed the Russian system - and nobody wants sudden unknown traps - whenever they are hidden - navigation the main interesting point.
As to your TAWS, installed in the Polish plane - Russian pilots believe it's not of much use at low heights, as it is Tomohawks system adapted, initially centered at 200m flying height. Maps have to be fed into it and up-to-date maps, which, LOL :o))))) could be the case last time NATO eh "monitored" the terrain around the military Russian airport - trees simply grew higher, sorry, in the past 20 years since the last up-date :o))))))
Complain about this comment
Meanwhile the good old Yak-40, who landed before the Polish President plane, bringing Polish journalists in - landed, note, in the same very fog.
It didn't have Russian plane stuffing carved out in refurbishments.
It simply, how to say, trusted that the aerodrome sees it, on their good old screens, by ordinary aerodrome radars, those? turning around ? hemi-spheres. Knows where it is and tells the plane what to do.
Relied on old beacons, the Far Beacon, in approach to the runway, and the Near Beacon, to check their direction themselves, against beacon line marked with markers, also issueing beep beep to the plane.
As correct landing glissade.
Technology times 2nd WW :o)))))) Un-destroyable :o)))))
And, how to say, landed, without any fuss.
Maybe the journalists' Yak also had still the old Russian self-navigation system for the fogs and night, that works in alliance with the land equipment in that aerodrome, - and shows the plane itself, on own screens, where it is and where it goes. Without any TAWS :o))))
But that equipment for Russian aircrafts is installed on the opposite gissade route, to land on the same runway, but from the opposite side,
and as I understand the wind direction on the day left them with this glissade route only. So even if Yak still had it - un-stuffed - it didn't use it.
Landed from the West.
Complain about this comment
Summary. When in Rome - do like the Romans do.
If aerodrome says landing minima (conditions) not allow landing - go away.
It's not that Russians are mean and don't want the ceremony to be, artificially schemeing to route the aircraft away off.
This idea of "Russians schemeing and planning about poor Poland" - could have exactly be the one that ruined them.
It is safe to bombast anti-Russian ideas - in the EU Parliament meeting halls.
Not in the air, when you literally MANAGED to put your life at stake - on the truth of this "mean Russians" statement.
Checking own theory by practice, so to say.
And of course what navigation equipment they used, and HOW, given that the navigator had 59hrs of experience - is the question that interests many, in both countries.
I think Russian military aerodromes are TAWS-resistant :o)))), by definition.
I hope they forgot about it and used something simple.
The same Polish kommander flew to this very aerodrome with the Polish PM Tusc, after all, just several days previously.
He knew what's available in the Russian military aerodrome, and knew the terrain before the runway.
I think he went for something old simple.
And he did do wonders, in the past 10 seconds of the "tree flight".
Talanted man, as noted Ershov - Russian author of TU154 encyclopaedia - case-studies, of all related to TU154 - collected into one text-book. -
Erschov believes the kommander didn't have adequate support, in fog, from his navigator and the second pilot, as he wrote TU154M hand landing blind "requires crew team-work".
Complain about this comment
I agree with many of the smart ashes that this situation is far from optimal.
The highly efficient ´Hub and spoke ´ allows world flying with few stops but collapses worldwide and is non-flexible in situations as this.
Complain about this comment
It is not my intention to interupt the private conversation on the blog, but I'd like to mention the article here on BBC with the title "Volcanic ash chaos 'a lesson for Europe'".
The situation in the air is indeed chaotic although improving, but European flight authorities have not been prepared for the situation as the article mentions. Therefore many are now advocating more coordination within the EU.
The data from the German research flight yesterday have still not been published.
Complain about this comment
The Boeing ´Dreamliner´ (point to point) now seems to be a good idea.
Complain about this comment
Re76: A Dreamliner is a gradual amelioration of the same good old design. Which is obsolete. Just like gasoline cars. Obsolescence. We cling to good old designs cos industries are afraid of change, afraid of losing control, afraid of letting go a whole market.
Aircrafts like EKIP had to be the future since... 20 years ago. And for short distances the much more safe and economic zepelins that can land anywhere independent of terrain had to be used - especially by 3rd world countries that cannot afford maintenance of highly expensive airplanes.
Just forget about having any ideas of considering what is there out today as being the best technology can offer. Far from that...
Complain about this comment
I wonder what the livery of the new EU Flag Carrier airline will look like?
No doubt the calls for a co-ordinated EU approach to Flight Management will see the rise of calls for an EU Airline ... and NATS will no doubt have to become EUNATS too.
What a farce!
Complain about this comment
Well,:o)))) Putin made a casual remark yesterday that "if this will continue this way, there'll stay the only airline company in Europe - Aeroflot :o))))
Complain about this comment
Yay! i can see planes coming into land at Heathrow.
Complain about this comment
Let's create and enhance a new political force, the Icelandic Volcanic Party, after all in one week they have done more to quell immigration than any of the Socialist (EU) governments of the EU, plus they have shown that if global warming actually exists (which I doubt) there are several ways to diminish it other than eliminating cows. Personally I found the last week pretty nauseous as all I saw on UK TV was a bunch of nodding doll ministers trying to make out they were proactive and trying to save the world, lol, they couldn't even get their nods synchronised.
Complain about this comment
WA;
"Mavrelius, in the thread about you and I "new beginning" :o))))))"
I pushed the reset button. I went back before the new beginning. I liked the good old days better.
If and when the first plane crashes and it turns out it was from volcanic ash, there will be a panic. As I understand it, a jet engine operates at 2000 degrees at the front near where the ash enters. Than aft of the turbine blades it resolidifies and clogs openings for ventillation causing the engine to overheat and shut down. Even tiny volcanic ash particles too small for the naked eye to see can accumulate over time and cause big trouble. The four engine plane the British pilot flew where all four engines shut down fell to 12,000 feet before he could get them restarted. He was flying at night and couldn't see the volcanic ash cloud when he flew through it. The windshield became completely opaque from being in effect sandblasted. If there is an accident, every engine on every plane that flew will have to be inspected carefully even if that means disassembly. This is probably a very foolish risk. The airlines who pressured the authorities to reopen the airports are not qualified to judge whether or not it is safe, only the aircraft and engine manufacturers are and I'd bet they are against it.
Complain about this comment
There is an excellent article about the profound human rights abuses continuing in Latvia on the BBC.
It goes right to the heart of what it means to be "European" in the modern context. It shows how incredibly corrupt and insincere the EU institutions are and have been for the past decade regarding human rights.
And, yes, this blog is once more covering news that has been covered by every other journalist from every conceivable angle, and which isn't interesting in any case.
Complain about this comment
dt;
"And, yes, this blog is once more covering news that has been covered by every other journalist from every conceivable angle, and which isn't interesting in any case."
Then why do you keep coming back? Is this the best you can do? Is the internet such a vast wasteland that this mud hole is the only oasis in sight?
Complain about this comment
Well MA, after I read as much as I did last week on that flying, in blogs, what pilots write and how they comment - I think I am not flying anywhere, volcanoes or not :o)
As is joked now - before - everyone in Russia considered himself to be a specialist in agriculture and football :o))), now - there joined up the third pattern - how to fly TU154M :o)))))
I have just read 100-page memoirs of most beloved experiences and memoirs of the TU instructor (who piloted and then taught the new ones), (which memoirs are awful popular read now in Russian blogosphere :o)))
about mistakes of his own in piloting and mistakes his pupils did :o))) - kind of a case study approach to writing memoirs - and must say my horizons have largely expanded.
That is, in fact, shrunk! to "ground only" :o))))
Heroic people are in Smolensk. That town's own local blog. The most heroic thing about it as all compliment them how their system didn't collapse :o))), due to the amount of visitors.
There have eventually gravitated all aviation blogs Russian, and all blogs Polish, plus 2-3 hundreds of journalists spying for news undercover :o)))
Poles are told to write in English! for crying out loud. Because they use google to translate themselves into Russian, and google translator Russian-Polish is un-developed. Because google doesn't feed in translations, but develops on the go, every time someone translates something it is being fed in and the dictionary and phrases improve on the go. Google translator reflects one-to-one level of comms btw two languages. English-Russian - very well translated and vice wersa. Wise w anyway. Polish-Rusian-Polish - total disaster.
So Poles write in Polish or in Russian as they can but somehow they are suddenly very English idea resistant.
Anyway they can't say anything clever :o))), first they say that Russia is very good and nice, and that they love us (suddenly) very much :o))) - honest. Then they come up to the business and ask why have we mined the runway :o), placed artifical beakons :o))), changed their manometres and thermometres :o)))), intentionlly confused their crew who they all insist speak Russian as native :o)))), organised artificial fog by burning things around, or may be by dispersing fog-organiser :o))) from the airplanes above, why haven't we cut all trees there in the depth of the hole :o)))), 50 metres below the run-way, why haven't we closed the airport at all, not allowing their darling Pres. to fly to us, and other, how to say, interesting questions. And why don't we release the tapes and make them worry for weeks and weeks etc.
To which the Smolesnk people very politely reply to all silly questions and very patiently, only from time to time someone says "Yeah... And we thought it's we are brain-washed ....." :o)))))
The main attraction there is Smolensk engineer chaps crawled the whole place taking photos tracing the plane's way metre by metre, with measuring tape and photos taken from all sides close ups and what not, including the airport equipment, and put them out with commentary, for pages, for all to see, with markings, and distances, and draw a map of the event, from the point the airplane began marking its way along the ground. Did excellent reconstructions and calculations, based it all, and are improving and improving, correcting themselves as pilots and airports give advice, quarrel and comment on that catastrophe-devoted blog.
Polish TV shows these maps exclusively; Russian TV makes films and cartoons with reconstruction based on these maps as well. Smolensk engineers are the total hit of the season, and chief authority now.
Journalists interview them, phoning the blog people, and what not.
As the official authorities shut themseelves up completely - both on Polish and on the Russian sides, in total agreement. The investigation committee stopped publishing intermediate investigation results, Polish Prosecutor General only promises and promises to let the recordings out, be made public - and moves and moves the day onwards.
The Russian main aviation blog was "closed until new information is released; we hope for your understanding" :o))))
- I think lawyers in the pilots forum :o)))) drove the moderators mad, quoting 100 page int'l conventions on flying, IATA by tons - and quarreling over every bit of them :o))))
So Smolensk stayed the place. And they did a lot, as min to debunk the crazities in the mainstream media, and keep both countries' media in frames, more or less. As obvious media mistakes are contradictory to the Smolensk links and photos and things.
A thing in process.
Complain about this comment
75. At 4:34pm on 20 Apr 2010, Mathiasen wrote:
" ...
The situation in the air is indeed chaotic although improving, but European flight authorities have not been prepared for the situation as the article mentions. Therefore many are now advocating more coordination within the EU."
EUpris: I am all in favour of cooperation and coordination as long as it is not used as an excuse for integration, which it almost certainly would be.
Because "EU"-lovers try to camouflage integration as cooperation, they encourage resistance.
Complain about this comment
I seriously doubt the investigation committees from either side did as much as that Smolesnk grass-root initiative, on finding the truth. There are all experts coming to them, and they absorb news and slowly move on.
As all suspect when the records are made public - FINALLY - they'll withhold most inetersting parts :o))) writing "noise. unrecognisable here" So count on own brains only, and, attracted brains.
Complain about this comment
Mathiasen,
Its true that we are unlikely to help, but, your estimation seems colored by yukky anger.
I'm sure that many countries, including us could help with historical information...
You are showing your German/EU nationalism one thinks :)
Complain about this comment
Sorry only read that far, Mathiasen,
And you were saying bahumbug I had thought about USA...nevermind.
but I WAS worried, for nothing, about the ash cloud wiping out European lungs.
And it turns out, no breathing problems at all....so Europeans survive this calamity.
We have a place called Ashville in Nebraska where many prehistoric rhinoceros and mastodons are unearthed from some ancient Yellowstone volcano eruption (?) They ..think that is what happened, but ash clouds are often dangerous.
So, this was like just a geyser of ash? With an explosion shooting it out...just dust? You are so lucky ....maybe (we) should thank your lucky stars.:)
Complain about this comment
WA;
Blame the crash on the Iceland volcano. The fact that the plane crashed before the volcano erupted should not matter, it is an insignificant detail that can be worked out later. That's what would have happened...in 1984. What did the Communist Chinese call the Soviets? Ah yes, now I remember...."Revisionists." With a little creative rewriting of history and depending on the fact that most people who remember who killed who in what war 647 years ago at precisely 11:32 AM on October 18 but can't remember what they ate for breakfast this morning that should work out just fine.
Complain about this comment
David;
"So, this was like just a geyser of ash? With an explosion shooting it out...just dust? You [Europeans] are so lucky ....maybe (we) should thank your lucky stars.:)
If they get any luckier, Pompeii will explode...in their laps.
Complain about this comment
Don't be so negative, Marcus...
Go to the Economist website and you'll find Chinese posters who make Totalitarian regimes seem like paradise in their views. They are most likely a minority..teenagers boasting probably.
But, this is what makes Europe preferred in my opinion. The Chinese to me ..these days.. are professional thieves posing as businessmen--truly making the phrase "all property is theft" as a prophecy coming true.
I've read that every time a foreign company makes money in China, an exact replica appears..ie Baidu = Chinese Google. But, that means that their key will be universities of note and R & D.
Will they develop as in Japan? With actual original products? Democracy or at least total freedom of speech will have to develop there first. But, also, I read that a company ther produces an I Phone exactly the same with a much lower price..they probably last 6 months...but it makes feel outraged.
So, I prefer "old" Europe any old day.
Complain about this comment
Property is not theft, David. It is fraud, insofar as the regime in power is not beholden to the laws made by the people of the area who must respect the concept in court.
Indirect taxation is theft, as it can be shifted to an unwitting consumer, depriving them of their means. Direct taxation is robbery, as it is theft backed up with the threat of violence from men carrying guns.
The failed axiom "property is theft" proclaimed class war as a remedy to political inadequacy, and thus merely substituted one appalling system of political injustice for another.
Progress may be slow, and it may invariably disappoint, but I would like to believe it does happen.
Look at the latvians in Europe just now. Yes, the latvian government is guilty of massive sustained human rights abuses, and yes it is true that the UK and the rest of western Europe AND the USA are all turning an official blind eye because rich people have investments to take care of.
That is tragic, and barbaric, and makes a mockery of human rights law.
But consider the progress, David. Sixty years ago, the Latvians nationalists backed by the west were butchering literally hundreds of thousands of women and children. And the west wasn't turning a blind eye, either. We were cheering them on and giving them weapons to do it.
So you can have "old" europe, if you want. But you might find old europe had as little regard for patent law as new china.
If you google "Patent nonsense", you may find a curious read. I can't promise anything, of course, but once upon a time it worked.
As for your love of democracy, do you really believe that the system of representation found in the USA is democratic?
It's a serious question. I must admit I don't know how you see the world of politics. A sensitive tax man has me confused and sweating, like a feverish man in a room full of snakes. I wouldn't say it makes me doubt the mind of god, but it does make me question the divine sense of humour.
Speak up on this issue, David. Do you believe that representation and democracy are the same thing?
Complain about this comment
MarcusAureliusII wrote:
"Then why do you keep coming back? Is this the best you can do? Is the internet such a vast wasteland that this mud hole is the only oasis in sight?"
I visit the BBC for the football news, and I am interested in European affairs. And once upon a time, this blog was written by a competent journalist with a work ethic. Call me nostalgic for the old days.
Sometimes I enjoy reading the comments. Alice tells a good story and you also, when you forget to put on your Captain America cape and save the world with the gift of freedom.
Why do you come back? I think that is a better question. I'd have thought you could be happy as Apple pie with a hand gun right where you are. You can watch the "world series" take place without the blemish of other nations participating, and thrill to the terror and the saviours on the evening news. I mean, you guys have everything from A to B right there where you can shoot at it.
Why do you grace this blog with your presence?
Complain about this comment
All I can say is that thank goodness someone has stood up against business and put peoples' lives first before profit.It was a much harder decision to make as no government wants to disrupt industry particularly in times of crisis, but would be much more costly with loss of lives. The authorities should not be pressurised into reversing any decisions made just for the sake of turnover, because no-one really wants to fly when the even slight risk of fatalities is present. The real victims are those who have been stuck in transit and unable to return to loved ones or attend special occasions. Holidays are expendable,sure there is disappointment but there'll be more. Work related trips have other methods of communication so these can ease the load.Why should those who work in the air industry be forced to fly in unsafe circumstances, they would be unable to decline- as those who have carried out tests for airline companies could not and would be forced to represent figures in a positive light.
Furthermore, these companies should not be compensated by state funding, they should themselves have been prepared for any natural disaster which could disrupt flights. All other businesses have to insure and protect themselves. The people will once again have to payout for the losses of business and they have paid out enough already, without receiving a service that reflects the outgoings.
No-one was responsible for this natural disaster and the unprecedented nature of it required great caution and I personally thank those in charge for sticking to their principles despite the pressure and attacks that have been and will continue to be made. Perhaps this will lead to strategies for future risks, but for now the most important fact that should not be played down is that NO-ONE HAS LOST THEIR LIFE!
Complain about this comment
Re90: Like blaming 911 on Bin Laden, eh Marcus? Ehehehehehe.....
Complain about this comment
Re95: Unfortunately when nothing happens, people start thinking of what they lost, i.e. time, money, businesses etc. None thinks that in reality some 100 lifes were won as it was a certainty that af all these 1000s planes 1 would fly straight into the dense cloud, clogg its engines and fail to land properly.
Complain about this comment
Re HAARP ...
There's no such thing.
Although there's the harp (an old musical instrument)
And HARM (a U.S. missile).
Of course, conspiracy theorists know better.
And no facts are going to change their minds.
[Iranian ayatollahs claim than women wearing "indecent clothes" cause earthquakes. Could they be an Islamic HAARP?]
Complain about this comment
Re #73 crash near Katyn wiping off Polish ruling elite...
Perhaps it could have helped a litle if approach lights at Severny airport had some bulbs in them?
[A Belorussian photographer having documented on film how the local officials hastily screwed in the bulbs where there were originally NONE before premier Putin's arrival :( ]
Complain about this comment
A threat to democracy: EUSSR
P.S. So when the Britons who "never never never shall be slaves" can get a date certain for a referendum on their country's membership in the EUSSR? A Destroyer of Airlines?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
You can fly a lot, but never AEROFLOT.
Complain about this comment
Re #93 democraxy threat wrote:
"Direct taxation is robbery, as it is theft backed up with the threat of violence from men carrying guns"
And that's why Swiss banks, including leading UBS allow tax evaders from all over the world (including mafia) to hide money in their secret accounts. Just like NAZIs before them.
Without carrying guns.
Complain about this comment
dt;
"Why do you come back? I think that is a better question. I'd have thought you could be happy as Apple pie with a hand gun right where you are."
Popping empty beer cans on the back fence while I'm in my rocking chair on the back porch can get tiresome after awhile. After you pop 'em all right handed, then left handed, then with one eye closed, then with the other eye closed, then with both eyes closed and one hand tied behind your back, then with a tech 9, then with an Uzi, what is there left to do except come here and do the same with words. It does seem too easy sometimes but then I can die knowing I have accomplished all I set out to in life :-)
Complain about this comment
Re101: ... some Greeks have a particular affection for Switzerland. Afterall its just next door, Cayman islands are long hours of flight, boring...
Direct and indirect taxation inside most if not all modern states is indeed a robbery. Tax in itself should be on a whole different level, that of contribution but to have that you have to have well defined societies when everyone knows who is who and what stands for.
Property in itself is a basic human instict, in fact shared by more other forms of life.
Complain about this comment
#88 David,
What are you talking about? I have no idea, but I mentioned something about an aeroplane with different high-tech instruments, and you might have misunderstood something.
Before you react, please consider what kind of pressure European air lines are exercising on European authorities to get the airlines back in business.
Complain about this comment
German authorities have now published a 12 pages document with results from the test flight. Unfortunately the results are not unequivocal - readers of German can find an article on ARD.
In the meantime European air traffic is slowly getting back to normal.
Complain about this comment
Re post 94, Democracy threat
'I visit the BBC for the football news, and I am interested in European affairs. And once upon a time, this blog was written by a competent journalist with a work ethic. Call me nostalgic for the old days.'
That is harsh, I have found the current commentator much more balanced on european affairs than his predecessor and much prefer his style. Yes you could argue a couple of his posts were not specific to europe but still interesting and you do not have to be here if you don't like it
Complain about this comment
MA, :o), China called us "revisionists" in the sense that we revised the excellent no doubt :o))) sacred pillars of the "communist history", turning the ship towards socialism instead.
They thought us predators.
In reality I think it was not so much of an abstract academic quarrel :o)))), but simply that we got scared of Mao.
Our new pupil such a quick learner :o)))), demonstrating such best demonstrated practices :o))))), that total aj iaj iaij.
And it became, like, un-elegant, to keep company with Mao.
So we elegantly drifted away from him, distanced, and he complained high and low! :o)))))))
Instead of saying "USSR doesn't like me personally anymore" he styled the message to the home audiences "USSR deserted the very pillars of the real communism, they are predators of the int'l communism movement."
And they began posting posters of our Polit-Bureau chaps in all big squares in big quantities for the fun of the Chinese and shooting at them or drawing moustaches :o)))) joking , simply setting them on fire and shooting at for fun.
________________________________
Complain about this comment
Those who complain about Swiss banks grudgingly revealing their tax-evading clients' secret accounts (to avoid multibillion $$$ lawsuits filed by the U.S. Treasury Department) can still rely (temporarily) on Lichtenstein's banks.
Although as far as I know German BND is zeroing on them too. :)
Complain about this comment
There were always certain annoying difficulties, with this spreading of the communism worldwide, as a leading new technology of society organisation.
And it had to be spread, because otherwise it's clear we are one such lonely idiots, in the world.
It is not a common winning new trend, but simply a one country mis-hap.
Not very elegant.
So they'd find someone, in Africa, agreeing to be formally communists, to be able to say "our rows are growing" - for a hell of a lot amount of money (because FOC absolutely no one agreed) and, like, initially, all goes OK.
Russia would fly there building some infrustructure, engineers get a lot of trips abroad, airplanes fly, friendship forever, it'll be announced in the local newspapers one more happy country made its choice towards socialism - and then rumours from Russians working there steadily come in that the brand new communistic-socialistic and all PC correct country leader ate up our ambassador last week, plus a couple of more ambassadors :o))))) around, for dinner.
And one starts having doubts, that he really, how to say, read Marx Kapital well, and absorbed the whole theory deeply and profoundly.
It clearly seems he absorbed only cash (and a couple of ambassadors).
Very un-convincing for local Russians that "we are not that mad alone, many clever folks ww have chosen this sure development path" :o(
Complain about this comment
OSB:
"Yes you could argue a couple of his posts were not specific to europe but still interesting and you do not have to be here if you don't like it"
In Europe? But where else should I go, if the quality of the journalism displeases me?
No, I prefer to stay and fight for my fundamental right to interesting discourse. I refuse to leave Europe to the lazy party hacks.
Nik, it used to be said that a legitimate slogan was "No taxation without representation."
i think in the modern world, where representation has been bought out and is frankly owned by banks and other multinational corporations, the slogan needs to be:
"no taxation without referendum"
Until people have the right to vote on the laws under which they live, I see no end to the current hysterical bloodbath of corporate feudalism.
Even in peaceful Europe, away from the drone zones and the butchery which sustains the military industrial complex, I am becoming alarmed at how many people are wearing government uniforms and professing to be my saviour.
I tell you, I think there are simply too many people wearing uniforms and claiming to save the world.
It cannot end well.
Complain about this comment
God, is this guy slow...
Not even a word on the EU/IMF guys going to Greece..
Complain about this comment
democracythreat :o))))
"a sensitive tax man has me confused and sweating, like a feverish man in a room full of snakes. I wouldn't say it makes me doubt the mind of god, but it does make me question the divine sense of humour."
Complain about this comment
democracythreat,
to believe in existence of "sensitive tax men", or not - it depends on how one was shaped up in his/her child years.
Namely, what is the children literature tradition, in your country of childhood.
We see it in Russia as split into 2 distinct campuses (plus may be there are more).
Option A (a la Rus) - is you see social discrepancy in everything.
That the key problem, standing btw what it is now and desired world of happiness is the difference between the campuses of poor and rich. (in the simplified version) Or, say, the ones at power and the ones being commanded around.
Accordingly, by Russian child up-bringing model, there are good tax inspectors (desirably poor and not deciding anything:o)))) - and bad rich tax inspectors, in command. All very consequitive, doesn'r raise questions, don't worry :o))))
The 2 key heroes of Soviet children were Tom Soyer and Huckleberry Finn, and Italian Cippolino (don't know how to spell him in Italian).
Printed in millions of copies same print size as Lenin volumes.
As literature key for children upbringing.
Tom Soyer was
a./ naughty (goody-goody kids - ugh. by Russian national tradition. a charming hooligan always gave us more hopes, like, able to fight, for the future, a non-conformist, not standing still rotting water. aimed for improvement! of life. how to say)
b./ was saving that Jim African eh American - very good approach, saving others, exporting him to a "free state" where there is no slavery. Risking his own life under bullets at some point.
c./ Plus Tom Soyer was conveniently anti-religious, snobbed at his Sunday church school for their ? pharicean? eh pumped assumed airs? approach.
An ideal child in Soviet understanding 100%. To say nothing Of Huckleberry Finn, very suitably poor.
As to Italian Chippolino - a, basically, an onion, (he was. honest. an onion head walking around) - fighting for the rights of poor Uncle Pumpkin - whose house was destroyed in road construction I think it was for the big and mighty boss Segnior Pomidore (tomato) - well - that onion head Chippolino was a total revolutionary - look at it from any side - organising vegetables' up-rising against Segnior Pomidore-s (big fat red tomatoes of this world).
Chippolino was also naughty, a child onion, and very energetic and for the rights of the poor vegetables.
Option B./ is Western modern approach to child upbringing literature, where the problem with this world is NEVER social in-adequacy between people, but always some one big dark power with who all fight.
Fantasy world. (That Dave likes, by the way.)
You can not imagine some ? elphs? those, with long ears, folk up-rising against their Princess, in the Lord of the Rings, neither those hairy legs Hobbits up-rising with their bosses, neither absolutely any "nations" in the Lord of the Rings being un-happy with their governments.
They all, as one, fight some external dark forces :o))))))
I mean, Russian kid literature tradition sees threats to existence as originating internally, within the society, and Western kid up-bringing literature sees troubles and threats originating externally.
That's why, by the way, the grown-up Westerners fall so easily for the idea of external threats. They were brought up this way.
And it is not "modern" literature of the last decades only, the distinction goes with its roots deeper, the mind-set.
Hobbit isn't so 21st century production, after all.
And before Huckleberry and Chippolino Russian literature was always rich, for centuries, with examples of how eh, problematic it is, between the bosses and the ones bossed around.
19th century favourite hero of Russian kids was Gerasim. A serf, of his owner. Big numb man, un-able to speak. His master, a crazy middle-aged woman, made him drown his only happiness in life, a small white fluffy doggie Mu-mu. :o(
Say "Mu-mu" in Russia now - all children start to cry! :o)))))
Symbol of how this world is un-fairly, un-just-ly organised, that a big peasant man goes in a boat, to the middle of a lake, ties a stone onto his fluffy doggie head - and kicks Mum-Mu overboard aaaaaaahhhhh :o(((((((( can't continue sorry
Complain about this comment
By the way modern Russia is the same. It was Mark Twain day yesterday here. Either he died on the 21st, 130 years ago? or was born? on the 21st? 130 years ago? Tom Soyer forever.
And modern Anglo-Sax are the same. Take Harry Potter - eh? any one, of those? dwarfs? various magic eh? people? small sub-divisions of the fairy world - ever un-happy with their management? Dragon-drivers, or, I don't know, magic wand producers - any one?
Nope. They all wait for some Morder :o))) or whoever, flying in from externally, big black powerful external force, that arrives out of nowhere - and ruins good and honest witches.
Same approach, literature tradition, deep roots, followed.
While in Russia, as they joke, the main question of the literature is
"What for Gerasim drowned his Mu-Mu?!"
Best brains puzzle over it for centuries. Why didn't he ? I don't know, ran away to cossacks, taking his doggie with? Why did he so, sheep-like, how to say, obliged his master orders? Ruining the only dear one for him and himself, making a crime - for the sake of a fancy of that serf owner.
As if what she think is best, an authority, aha. Who is she, in the first place? And why was he such a sheepish idiot? A big man. OK, numb, but, how to say - all serfs are numb.
Complain about this comment
On the first day of the rescue, Spain will repatriate some 43,000 Europeans in 290 special flight of which 156 will be from Barcelona. Also 135 long distance coaches will be leaving for various cities.
On Monday Airbus sent an A380 on a flight of nearly 4 hours over France at 9,000 metres and an A340 over France and Germany for 5 hours at 12,000 metres. Afterwards Airbus had not detected "anything abnormal" but the company had sent the information collected on these flight to the engine makers, Engine Alliance and Rolls Royce and the authorities for evaluation.
My translation from an article in El País today 21st April.
As Barcelona and Madrid have been the only 'hubs' open in Western Europe, although small compared with Heathrow, Amsterdam, Paris and Frankfort, we have seen the arrival of many unscheduled international flights. Including from Philadelphia and Orlando in the USA and from Tel Aviv and two cities in China.
These people, together with tens of thousand that have arrived in Barcelona by road over the last few days have now to get to their destinations. I think at least a week will be needed.
Complain about this comment
On behalf of American airlines I thank EUSSR cowardly bureaucrats for causing them multimillion $$$ losses by closing (for no good reason) a dozen of key European airports.
And only now admitting that the "danger zone" was safe to fly through all this time after all.
Complain about this comment
I'm fine WA..youre so sweet. Tell you more later.
And you, DT, should think about perhaps America's democracy at top is mediocre, yet at local is above average. Tell you more later, but You think about a law based society, what does that mean? And should we be ruled by "dingalings" ..no offence to those ..peeps.
Ill think more later but... rep ovr direct. I just had 6 teeth removed on bott and im waiting for my prescriptioms.
Complain about this comment
I like actually like George RR Martin, WA, because of his very realistic view of what society was in the middle ages though he makes it a fictional world with supernatural evil just over the horizon tho even that is interesting not too much different.
In his novels Alice he postulates basically that every man was king of some sort tribally (with woman as counseling and/or leaders but not treated equally)
It must have been a horrible world pre Charlemagne and obviously post, with feudal societies, but you realize just how much royalty was not god given. It was man taken and a Big lie. The most charismatic and smarter(est) man would rule and there were hundreds, maybe thousands of fiefdoms.
And we have all come from there. But George RR Martin writes excellent imagery and I feel like a masochist reading his books. His characters have to endure horrid realistic scenes of violences. Men are very horrible and it is focused on in a real intelligent way--obscene not exciting except as life/death/demeaned existences.
But S. Donaldsons books are about us, here today, and they take Tolkiens world and turn it towards humanity and self help psychology with also ancient ideas of the cosmos. (Hinduism, yuk, yes) It to me is a nightmare to think of how thinks really work. But, nightmares are at night, huh.
Rep vs direct? I would trust a lawyer any day, they are our protectors ultimately and don't you idealistic anarchists of Europe bemoaning every little flaw as if it were an OUTRAGE forget that. Im sure Amnesty International and that other hated yet loved group who fights for everyone ..even free speech rights for KKK.
They are all lawyers and thats my answer, Mr. DT. It is analogous thinking not analysis because I did read in a book by Toflin(?) future shock or.. the later one..so good.
There is a kind of thinking called creative thinking..a sybiosis kind of thinking that creates...In California ..a nation ahead of all except Japan (its twin ..in tech) they are actually already building new 'green' industries, which will make life more expensive at first.
I did not know that one cannot store renewable energies (solar, wind generated energies ..YET but one also shouldnt discount human flair and brilliance. China and India have rights to be proud--they were the embarrassements of the world now the inheritors AND ...whew... percoset IS good. lolol
And these Chinese actually I do like them, they are doing it well but only what is true there? Anything except wealth? and Security..
This, I think, IS the age of Aquarius ....harmony and understanding, sympathy and trust abounding ...if you believe:)
A;so go to pbs.gov (?) and look for Nova the show about science and almost anything intelligent. I just saw a Nova featuring Schwartzaneggar [s[c] and California's new high tech industries--green industries. Who knew he was a ..thinker????
And a compliment to you DT, you are truly persistant and tenacious. Marcus is very good until he talks about ..um..Europe..want you to know..hardly anyone in the USA hates Europe. Hey where is the first place we visit when that financial windfall happens????????
I mean, Greece, Italy, and Spain here I come yes with Russia, Poland and yes Germany not far behind. Already seen Paris and London. London made me a Anglo/Europhile. Nuff said hmmm, oxycodone prob isnt the answer but:)))))
Complain about this comment
Mathiasen,
And in ur post 40 something to the effect that America did not have the answer to EUs current crisis ..um..to Freedom John and his idea of drones testing the flying airways. Our stingy greedy military would say ruthlessly no anyway.
But we in Kansas City and other small cities have always hated the East and its news hogging And East focused news. "I hate New York" was the gist of that emotion/reaction and I do think that other countries (esp small nations) hate the constant America-this, America-that perspective of the BBC.
And heck what HAVE I DONE to be able to bask in the success of "America the brand name" Its like basking in Sports team glory...bye
But I reacted ..then rethot..Im a trail blazer wishy-washy And Proud.
bye now hehe
Complain about this comment
I don't understand why the airlines have not done more to establish the safety of flying in dust, whether from dust storms or from volcanoes. Natural events are not new. They have been disruptive to aviation in the past and will again in the future. Rather than bemoan the loss of $1.7 billion in revenue, why not invest in experimentation that exposes jet engines to dust for prolong periods of time to determine if there is actually any harm to performance.
Complain about this comment
powermeerkat, re your posts #100, #116
In those posts, you wrote "...On behalf of American airlines I thank EUSSR cowardly bureaucrats for causing them multimillion $$$ losses by closing (for no good reason) a dozen of key European airports...." and "...EUSSR? A Destroyer of Airlines?..."
OK, let's talk you thru the sequence of events...
* The London Volcanic Ash Advisory Center (VAAC London, part of the Met Office) said "Hey! Volcano plume!"
* The International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO) said "Hey! Stopping flying planes would be a good idea"
* The Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) said "Hey, stop flying planes in UK airspace or we'll put you in jail!"
* The National Air Traffic Services (NATS) said "Shutting down UK airspace...now! Er, now what...?"
Powermeerkat, none of the above are EU bodies. Not one. The horrible, weird, oh-my-gosh-could-it-be-true-fact is that this whole weeklong, multimilliondollar-losing, tens-of-thousands-stranding, three-ring circus is the responsibility of the national bodies, not the EU. The EU weren't in the chain.
Please also note that:
* Gavin's article actually tells you this.
* Norway and Turkey's airspaces were also shut down.
* Given that the decision to partially lift the ban was taken at "a meeting of European transport ministers" (that smells like the EU), you could argue that the EU helped to make it better.
Regards, viewcode
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Met_Office
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volcanic_Ash_Advisory_Center
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Air_Traffic_Services
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Civil_Aviation_Organization
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Aviation_Authority_(United_Kingdom)
Complain about this comment
Menedemus, re your post #78.
In that post, you wrote "...I wonder what the livery of the new EU Flag Carrier airline will look like?...No doubt the calls for a co-ordinated EU approach to Flight Management will see the rise of calls for an EU Airline ... and NATS will no doubt have to become EUNATS too...What a farce!"
Hmmm. The likelihood of a formally EU flag carrier (i.e. an airline serving all of the EU member states as its flag carrier and serving no others as their flag carrier) is effectively zero: the EU doesn't create flag carriers for the same reason that member states don't create flag carriers any more. However, given the pan-Scandinavian approach of Scandinavian Airlines (SAS) (flag carrier of Denmark, Norway and Sweden), the upcoming merger of British Airways and Iberia (UK and Spain), plus alliances such as the Star Alliance, the distinction might be effectively moot.
Your coinage of "EUNATS" made me giggle...:-)
Your zinger of "...What a farce..." puzzles me. As carefully explained to powermeerkat above, the airspace kerfuffle wasn't caused by the EU, exacerbated by the EU, and may in fact have been (slightly) ameliorated by the EU. Are you proposing that power over European air traffic control be passed to the EU? In which case, I would imagine EUpris would like to comment most strongly...:-)
Regards, viewcode.
Complain about this comment
Re:120: Bruce, there is nothing much you can do about volcanic dust on current or similar future airplanes given the designs we are stuck with. If it is a jet, it will clog. You cannot put working filters to it! Solutions exist today, they existed yesterday too, 1 comes in the form of Zeps for cargo transportation intercontinentally and even passenger transportation to short flights (of a radious of up to 750km). The other comes in the form of advanced projects like "Ekip" project (a flying body) that are much safer designs and can fly even at lower altitudes or near sea-level if necessary to avoid regions of trouble.
Note that both solutions do not require aiports... that should tell you a lot as to why they are not used...
Complain about this comment
Gavin: great piece from you on the news tonight regarding the Eu & euro issues in the context of the UK election. Good to see the BBC raising these issues for once rather than trying to bury them. Keep up the good work in those broadcasts but please blog on these issues too.
Complain about this comment
viewcode has this hilariously articulate and formal way of writing. I very much enjoy reading your contributions!
Complain about this comment
David, I am very glad for you.
Further on in our own cubicle :o)
Complain about this comment
We were getting people back from Europe by buses to Kaliningrad, from where various Rus. airlines flew them home.
Aeroflot and Rossija behaved; returned money for tickets, in spite of force major, so Russians had some cash back to get home by buses.
Complain about this comment
Gheryando, re your post#125
Thank you.
Regards, viewcode
Complain about this comment
122. At 9:03pm on 21 Apr 2010, viewcode wrote:
.
" ... the upcoming merger of British Airways and Iberia (UK and Spain)"
EUpris: is a good reason to boycott British Airways.
Complain about this comment
122. At 9:03pm on 21 Apr 2010, viewcode wrote:
" ..
. Are you proposing that power over European air traffic control be passed to the EU? In which case, I would imagine EUpris would like to comment most strongly...:-"
EUpris: Too right I would. There is this thing called sleep and I need some soon otherwise ...
Complain about this comment
Be wary of LibDems' trickery, word games and manipulation:
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danielhannan/100035831/the-lib-dems-have-not-promised-an-inout-referendum/
Complain about this comment
This may be just the beginning. The melting of Iceland's ice cap may trigger many more volcanoes. It has happened before, scientists think it will happen again.
"Fire and ice collide, locked in a titanic battle, as glaciers explode and cataclysmic floods decimate the landscape. But Iceland's volcanoes have had ramifications far beyond the shores of Iceland, causing climatic chaos and devastation across the planet; a fate which may one day happen again."
http://www.history.com/shows/how-the-earth-was-made/episodes/season-2#slide-1
In 1783 a volcano erupted in Iceland that caused the effects around the world including a failure of rice crops in Japan that caused the worst famine there. It also caused ice floes in the Mississippi in New Orleans. This ice cap exerts one hundred tons pre square foot to keep magma from boiling to the surface and erupting. But this ice cap is melting at an alarming rate. One glacier retreats 200 feet a year.
Complain about this comment
In relation to the above, may I remind you that you neglected to blame Europe and Europeans for this volcanic eruption......
We spend out waking hours plotting ways to screw with the rest of the world after all.
Complain about this comment
viewcode @ #122
You wrote, "Your zinger of "...What a farce..." puzzles me."
I wish to elaborate.
You have very properly pointed out that the farce (to which I alluded in my previous comment) was not the fault of the EU but the amelioration of the effects of the northern european flight embargo could, potentially, be assigned to the EU as the EU National Travel Ministers collectively agreed to reduce the flight embargo.
My suggestion that the EU might seek to take on unified responsibility for pan-European Flight Management thus becomes more likely as a precedent of the EU ministers intervening has now been set.
Whether the EU National Travel Ministers collectively agreed to reduce the flight embargo due to commercial considerations and put airline profit before absolute passenger safety will be revealed should any one airplane fall from the skies due to jet engine ash intake.
My allusion to farce was the absolute flight embargo due to the plume of volcanic ash and the quibbling of the airlines as to their losses mounting as a result of the embargo. The airlines were squealing like stuffed pigs and the piggie noises clearly had an impact upon the ears of the EU National Travel Ministers who collectively agreed to reduce (or indeed eliminate) the flight embargo.
Such are the results of consensus political decisions which are taken for expediency rather than conscientious adherence to existing rules that are in place putting safety first and foremost.
Complain about this comment
Mavrelius, "this may be just the beginning".
Yes, we also heard here, that the pre-previous time the unpronounceable one erupted (not in 1821 but in the 1700 something) quite a lot of folks actually died in Europe of various effects.
Still, glacier melting, feeding the combustion - there can be put a stop to it.
All glaciers do not matter, only the cap bordering the crack in the Icleand fellow. Where there isn't a crack, an opening to the burning stuff below - those glaciers can melt as much as they wish.
I read the discussion of the problem with the Russian Academy of Science, Volcanology and Geodynamics Institite of it.
The director says he has an idea how to put a stop to the Icelandic fellow eh, excessive foaming, as the problem he says is the same when you pour cold water into a burning frying pan :o)
He actually demonstrated all - with a real frying pan :o) - the process. Woosh, pffff - all his kitchen in smoke and a grimace on his face.
The un-pronounceable one always had a crack, but simply recently this crack cracked further in length and touched the glacier cap. And there began small explosives , like balls, exploding cold water on hot ? whatever, releasing energy pushing the stuff up high into the air.
Instead of modestly sliding down the volcano side like decent volcanoes do. Onto who nobody pours cold water.
In short, Heinrich Steinberg (note the name, Volga German), our volcanology director, had a meeting already with Sergey Shoygu, Minster of Extraordinary Situations (popular Russian Minsistry as you understand), and enquired about Ministry's abilities to kick down the ice cap hanging over the Icleand volcano right down into it. or may be away to the side? to separate the unpronounceable one from the access to the cold water and ice. We heard ice chunks are simply flying around like bombs! when fall down into the hole and get energised shooting around.
The Minister got perplexed :o)))), but promised to think ab it :o)))))
He never kicked ice caps down or away off from volcano cracks (yet).
Steinberg is good, he is able to say when things will end, when he is walking the volcano in question. All he said before by diff. volcano sides proved true, and handy for the powers, re to evacuate all more, or , like, relax, soon will be over. But he says no data available yet from Iceland volcanologists in this respect, apparently the conditions of working on the place are aaah. You can't exactly research it peacefully and quietly, more or less.
Steinberg says volcanolgy these days has advanced very far, able to tell when a volcano will begin, but still has problems with saying when it will end.
Complain about this comment
By the way Russian Shivelutch (in Kamchatka) (one of many in our assortment of volcanoes) - also woke up last week.
From comraderie :o)))
An is erupting quite energetically, I think 5 miles up vertically the column of fire and smoke.
But as mentioned earlier :o), Russia manages her volcanoes well, we don't store ice cubes by volcano cracks - and don't recommend others.
Complain about this comment
But Shive-lutch is a normal volcano, part of the Pacific Ring of Fire: Kamchatka - Kyril islands - Japan - Phillipines - Indonesia - New Zealand - Antractida - Kordelliers - Central America - Western states of the USA - Alaska - Aleut islands - Kamchatka ring completed.
A good old company, where earth cover eh flat schields ? pieces ? meet together, cracks in between the pieces.
While Iceland ones are a thing of own standing and formation, they are where ocean bottom mountain ridges meet.
They say :o)
Personally, I don't understand how can it be ocean bottom mountain ridges if they are above water, but may it's a mistake :o))))
Complain about this comment
Re "We were getting people back from Europe by buses to Kaliningrad, from where various Rus. airlines flew them home.?"
Kalingrad IS in Europe (always was), if you mean Koenigsberg, you know the town -founded by a Bohemian king - the great Russian philosopher Immanuel Kant hailed from? :)
Complain about this comment
Pacific Rim of Fire.
Stretching all the way from Chile, through California Coast, Alaska&Aleutians, Japanese Islands, Kamchatka to Indonesia and Philippines. And of course - Hawai.
[Tibet, currently occupied by PRC, is on a different plate border line]
Read on its geological/volcanic/earthquake history.
About to repeat itself.
Complain about this comment
Re #137
Mauna Loa (in Hawai) is actually higher than Mauna Kea.
Because its base starts at the Pacific botttom.
[BTW. Its vicinity having been a nice place to spot some Soviet subs during the Cold War. And even sink some. 'Allegedly', of course. :)]
Complain about this comment
The Royal Air Force are not convinced that it's safe to fly.
Complain about this comment
Ah great, now Roland Emerich of "2012" is going to be right about something--the end of world in 2012?
I always think that he is into screwy science--that is why he is into disaster movies "mmmmmm disaster.... hurting all those peoples, so I wont be so stressed...a nice escape."
Gosh, poor Europe anyway. Just please be cautious before freaking out...sounds like coincidence :O)))))
Complain about this comment
WA;
"The director says he has an idea how to put a stop to the Icelandic fellow eh, excessive foaming, as the problem he says is the same when you pour cold water into a burning frying pan :o)
He actually demonstrated all - with a real frying pan :o) - the process. Woosh, pffff - all his kitchen in smoke and a grimace on his face."
Now I know why you lost the cold war. There isn't enough ice in the whole world to put that fire out. It comes from the center of the earth. In fact it is the earth except for the outermost 70 miles of it except where it reaches all the way the surface in some places.
Complain about this comment
Nik, an additional news to you on the "theories" side. A priest, episcope, who participated in the late Polish president ? farewell church service in the Wawel cathedral - died in car accident getting home after it.
The plague continues, how to say.
It's may be, as they say, Don't look long into the abyss, or else the abyss will start looking at you.
Complain about this comment
The news on the crash today is there is no news. Journalists gathered for the press-conference of the Polish Prosecutor General, at which he promised to make public the tape record from board the aircraft.
He didn't. It was a third promise in a row. Said they will take more time to study the details, probably, a year :o)))) Or - several weeks.
The case is highly politicised and, while the Polish and Russian top have clearly agreed on something - general public in both countries continues to worry. I think this delay in publication feeds anti-Russian moods in Poland, as gives people time to invent theories, and builds tensions up.
I dearly wish the records are published ASAP. But, by all looks, Russia gave way to Poland in this respect. Apparently we wanted from them something - and got it. In exchange for holding up with the records being made public by Russia single-handedly.
Officilly it is, like, Russia can not make public the content of the recording done on board a foreign aircraft. Not our aircraft and not our talks on board. Only with Poland's agreement Russia shall publish. And Poland's agreement is not there, they prefer to keep it secret.
May be after their elections, for they will have Presidential elections.
Party of the late President Kachinsky is likely to put forward from them Kachinsky's twin brother.
May be after victory day, for which Poland is coming over, to celebrate with us.
May be simply after the crew is buried, for they were identified the last ones, and are not even buried yet.
Anyway the ball is on the Polish side, both countries have these recordings de-siphered, for 6 days already - and we don't have Poland's consent to disclose them.
I am at a loss what could we need from Poland to agree to hold with records' publication, as every day of more delay only drives the Polish crazy and makes them invent new theories, one worse than another :o))))
This suspense harms Russia, but apparently Medvedev decided that it's worth it - whatever that "it" is.
Of the today's fun theories there are 2 new; one is a special Russian sputnik was flying above the aircraft sending a signal to violate the airplane's altimeters, TAWS, GSP, radio height meauring device, some other measuring device (there were 4 devices on board, to tell the height of the plane) (on top of the tricky systems - 4 normal straightforward ones.)
The other theory is FSB was walking among the smoking debris and shooting down the survivors :o))))) sorry I now it's unproper to laugh in this case. But - seriously, 300,000 Poles watched their newspaper site telling this story. I also watched, must confess :o)))))
It's done in Polish and in Russian (for us :o))))), to be sorry :o))))), apparently :o)))))).
Every 2 seconds it stops, and has like "posters" on the screen - telling what it is one is to see there - first in Polish, then in Russian. Like -
"See this man figure there in the fog behind the plane in the forest?" "This is the FSB man" "Repeat" "Have a second look at him" :o))))) (I swear, apart from smoke and fog :o)))) - I "saw" nil. Even, looking at it twice.
"Hear? Someone said a word. - Look, Listen."
"This word shouted in the forest is the name of the pistol KGB used in 1937. We recognise the name of it in Russian". (I - didn't :o))))))
"Repeat"
:o))))
They are paranoid, honestly. Every day the records are not published their media will be getting only more wild, winding themselves up.
Imagine, 300,000 looks at this. Well, may be they all were trying to see something :o)))) or "Hear" :o))))), trying hard.
The only thing I "saw" and "heard" in the short video in the fog - was someone invisible saying "Damn, xxxxxx!" Apparently someone saw the crash site.
Complain about this comment
Russians were included into the Guinnes Book of Records as the only people who can ? withstand? have patience? - eternally.
:o(
Nobel prize for Literature this year will be given to the man who will first manage to write without spelling mistakes the name of that very volcano. :o)))
Yesterday on Lenin's birthday from the street there was longly heard sad howling. Looked out of the window, to see what it is.
It proved to be young Pioneers trying to blow the horn.
Is broken chain of times. Secrets of the art - lost :o(
:o)))))))))))))
cos60+sin90+(sin120*tg30)(ctg90+cos380)= ... thank you, Maria Ivanovna.... it has come very useful to all of us, in life ...
:o))))))))
Complain about this comment
Actually, I just saw a science channel program about the earth's mantle, Marcus.
And it said that the mantle is 1800 miles deep with the crust on top (who knows how deep that is).
See, I know stuff (from TV watching) too. lololol
So the earths core must be about 3000+ miles across:)
Complain about this comment
So, this means, I bet, that Polands "heroic President" may have "urged" the pilot to land or else....and the information proves this?????
See, Obama knew not to trust those guys with USA weaponry, no offense, to Polish nationalists whom are mourning.
Truth is more important than emotion .....EVERY TIME.
Complain about this comment
Re144: Hmmm... In case the air-crash was a set-up murder, what could a priest-episcope know about it for this fatal accident to be a murder? I do not know. I cannot see the link, though the general rule of the thumb is that if murders accumulate then there is something smelling bad. But even if the aircrash was a murder, still this carcrash could be a typical accident, the possibilities are there. Interesting element though.
Murder is the last ressource used in politics. Today and yesterday. People think that anciently it was used more often and give exaemple the Roman and Byzantine Empire. Did not measure for Roman Empire (indeed there the 3rd century with some 10-15 Roman Emperors having ruled on average 2 years each.... Elagabalus was arguably the best example, funny thing is that he had promised too a New Age, New World Order and such ehehehehe!), but I had measured for Byzantine Empire and actually there were much less murders per its 1000 years history than in a country like US per its 230 years history.
However murder happens indeed. When things are spiraling out for those that yield or want to yield (more & more) control, the head will be decapitated. A prime example was Kennedy, a man the US ruling team opted as a marionette: young, energetic, presentable and likeable to the public but a complete marionette (given his family's criminal record that he had to support). Albeit Kennedy proved to be a bit less of a marionette (tried to play down the cold war, tried to place aside the Wall Street etc.) - poor guy thought that having the chair of the president would provide him any security. But the chair is just the scene of the marionettes.
Now, Kazinski was normally an anti-Russian. Russians, if they wanted to do something (and that not really their style in post-90s), they would had done it so far. Certainly they would not have killed him when he made an effort on an approach with Russia. It is US that would rather profit most by his death which can serve as an example to what may happen if you open talks with Russians.
Who knows? Really it could had been all an accident and the rest just repercussions. We may not know for sure. But it is very very reasonable to have doubts and the more the Polish delay the publication of the black box the more the suspicions will multiply.
Without knowing much more on it, I think the stand of the Russians is pretty much clear, both during the accident (Russian tower did its best to avoid it informing repeatedly the pilot of its wrong position telling him to land on an easier airport) and after (Russians did their investigaiton with the Polish but both in autonomy - and then... they said they will respect Poland's decision as to the publicity of details).
I think the ball is on Polish's field. They do their investigation, they can at least give to publicity the black box. It is the minimum to take away suspicions.
Complain about this comment
David;
Drill 70 miles deep or less and you will hit molten rock, magma. The crust is thinner in some places. The earth is like a raw egg, the part we live on is like the shell only broken in pieces and floating around against each other. When they move we have earthquakes. When the liquid comes through the crust we have volcanoes.
The History Channel program I referenced explained how the heat from the volcanoes melts the ice cap from beneath. the water forces its way through channels and when it breaks through the ice there are enormous sudden and violent floods. Boulders strewn all over Iceland are evidence for this. When enough ice melts, the ice on top collapses and there are huge depressions in it. eventually when the magma reaches the surface it is spewed out as lava. Steam propells the lava and gases like sulfur dioxide high into the atmosphere where it can travel around the world causing climatic effects everywhere. Iceland exists at the junction of the North American and European plates along the mid Atlantic ridge. The upwelling of lava due to the collision of these plates, pieces of this eggshell is what created Iceland in the first place. The process will go on continuously just as it has for over a million years. People who built civilizations or operate machines oblivious to this process will suffer the consequences. There is nothing anyone can do about it, it's just part of the way the world is. This strongly suggests that Europe should not have been built in the first place, it's in a bad location :-)
Complain about this comment
WA;
"Russians were included into the Guinnes Book of Records as the only people who can ? withstand? have patience? - eternally."
This shows that Guinness had made an error. Since we haven't reached eternity yet, there is no way to know if it is true. When we do get there, then Guinness can look back on it and say one way or the other if Russians were eternally patient. Meanwhile, I'd just take it with a grain of salt.
Complain about this comment
Marcus,
We have been (we meaning my whole fam damily) watching the Science Channel. It is similar to the History Channel in that you feel that its recycled other specials, but it is interesting in its "universe" programs.
I dont much like how "things are made" though sometimes interesting, but if there is nothing on TV (you know the feeling) there is that :)
Complain about this comment
Hello ALL!
I flew via Finnair from Helsinki to Brussels on Tuesday 13th April intending to return with Finnair on Friday 16th.
Some Volcanic ashes later...
Eventually Finnair found me a flight on Saturday 24th April.
I regret to say my experience of Finnair the first week of the crisis has not left a favourable impression: They actually closed their Brussels Finnair Office at the usual time Friday & re-opened Monday at 9a.m.!
Yes, I realise they could have only informed me all flights were grounded, but what about those unfortunate people with children and the elderly or disabled who may have needed advice etc... & believe me at Brussels Airport there were plenty at the weekend in that situation!?
Have to say this week Finnair really made an effort on my behalf & made up for some of their inadequacy, but I shall remember the electronic voice-mail telling me of normal 'business hours' for Finnair's office at Brussels Airport as I looked at the many fellow passengers from across the World more dependent/reliant for a kind/thoughtful/positive word from an Airline whose brochure on the eventual Return Flight informed everyone how 'Customer Service' was its 'First Priority'!
Anyway, that was my experience: It does not mean that others using Finnair were not entirely satisfied & I have to say I shall probably fly with them again although I will not look to them as my first choice in the future.
Complain about this comment
Welcome back CBW,
The others here ...today...are all pro-EU and the ensuing "debate" is all EU "run"..
So the other types are needed. Hope ur vacation WAS good.
David
Complain about this comment
other types are back :o)
Sorry, deserted all. I am vanishing at Smolensk forum; for the first time found myself in one more intersting than BBC. :o))))) Well, it must be the urgency of the situation, calling. Or, how to say, viability? live-a-bility? necessity of comms right now (Generalissimo you'll be proud of me). (even that I kicked out a bit initially :o) about your strongly expressed desire that I become less heavy-handed with Poles)
Anyway it's total Sherlock Holmes investigation club gathered over there, over the mystery of the crash (as official sources in both countries still prefer to keep us in the dark). People write in Polish, in English, in Russian, self-translate themselves with google, or simply skip it :o))))
Technical guys gathered there building var. charts and calculating various tangence-cotangence or how it is called sinus cosinus - try to keep sanity among conspiracy theories flying high, calls for friendship and tolerance, intermittent folks like me :o)))) - and still figure out what happened with the plane.
An awful interesting place, and there has been already one editor there with the suggestion to publish that whole blog as a book - and already visitors shouting - yes! I'll buy it! in normal paper format, that you can leaf over after! Thousand roubles from me - only please print!
But you'd be amazed - I cried :o))))
Smolensk city unanimously replied "We can not make money on blood. Go away."
I cried.
Oh, Smolensk.
Anyway. Dear moderators, it's an old Russian song; about the old Smolensk road. (Smolensk-Moscow, about the first road in Russia)
Very suddenly adequate now again; whole youtube is full of it in all interpretations.
Along the old Smolesnk road - forests. forests. forests.
Along the old Smolesnk road - lamp posts - humming - hum.
Onto the old Smolensk road - like your eyes -
Two huge cold stars, light-blue, - glance - glance.
Onto the old Smolesn road - just like your eyes
Two cold stars, - two, light blue, destinies, of mine. :o(
On the Smolensk road - snow-storms - into your face - always into your face!
We are driven out of home - by business, deals, things to do -
I'm thinking... it could be... If only! the embrace of your hands was more reliable, just slightly teeny-weeny MORE SAFE !
- The road for me - wouldn't have lie down - so much far. :o(
Along the old Smolensk road - trees, trees, trees.
Along the old Smolensk road - lamp poles - hum. hum. hummmm
Onto the old Smolesnk road - just like your eyes!
Two cold blue stars - are looking. looking. look.
Complain about this comment
Web Alice,
I went to the Economist site and told Vladimir of Moscow that the Economist (horrors of horrors) censors its comments/posts in a "PC" way, guaranteeing that all the posts reflects their articles viewpoint.
AND I put in my comment "this will probably be removed" so they will ...try to keep it...so as not to "appear" unscrupulous...Yahaha (evil laugh) ...the Russians have taken over the comments section of this article I told you about in the Hungary thread ..(below)
Russia Against Napoleon: The True Story of the Campaigns of War and Peace. By Dominic Lieven. Viking; 618 pages; $35.95. Allen Lane; £30.
Here is a positive book about Russia (from the West? hhmmmm maybe) about Russia against Napoleon--says that Russia did a much better job than even Tolstory had thought against the French...even behaving very professional, little looting, wartime atrocitie (little done)
Any way its in the Economist site today reviewed and accessible from the home page from pics on top (that u click on for story)....I hope lol
you know the Economist and my 'little' ignorance on matters but that is a book I can ck out at a library soon.
David
Complain about this comment
David, I don't share your fascination with the Economist blog. :o)
Ugh.
(Been there - ugh.) (You need to re-employ the whole staff :o)))))))))))))
I counted money in my purse and decided this is not feasible in the foreseeable future.
Anyway, it is kind of you to partisan there a little bit :o).
Complain about this comment
Re how we "behaved" when we took Paris - thank you, I don't need any consolations.
Elegantly well. The simple proof - is that the French themselves don't remember how Russians occupied Paris.
Complain about this comment
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
One thing bothers me, though : why no editors address us, in THIS blog - for the permission to publish as a book?
:o)))))))))))
Complain about this comment
oh.
OK. dial in youtube Las smolenski , 2 min 07 seconds.
Complain about this comment
thank you, yes, ugh, the Economist (lately) I liked their magazine but their online site (ugh)
Complain about this comment
I dont usually go to You Tube as it is broadband (which I have now whee) and it is full of young people and it sometimes has repulsive gory video,
but, for you, I will, Las Smolenski?
:)
Complain about this comment
David, the same song in English.
Dial ukinotts in the tubie; that's the name of someone fromn UK may be, who placed it.
Second page of that ukinotts list of favourite songs - 3rd song from the top of the list, 4:43
_______________________________
I don't know why in Polish it's "Las smolenski" :o))
Just leave those Polish alone, for 20 years, and ..:o))))
Complain about this comment
Mavrelius, at 143 - sorry; just realised you don't know how to put out volcanoes :o)))))
Seriously, the idea is not to pour cold water on it, to extinguish all there is flaming inside this little globe.
But, to the opposite - NOT to pour cold water on it.
Separate flame and water stocks in Iceland, push the ice-cap hanging over the hole and melting down into it - off away.
The expectations are then it will stop behaving like a hot frying pan with cold water poured on. But more in the normal volcano style - all goes up, is not dispersed into small particles - and all flops down onto Iceland (more or less).
Complain about this comment
Im going to YouTube tomorrow with your parameters. I've been
....lurking ....in the current thread--"....eurozone...."
I think they ought to make you--you are already European, just not EU--and I honorary Europeans lolol.
Thank you for answering, Im doing well, it seems you are tooooo: Remember your cat FOR you in my prayers...that he is in heaven or somewhere nice--maybe if we are good, we can go to "cat heaven," too :))))
Complain about this comment
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
View these comments in RSS