The enigma of Berlusconi
ROME The Italian prime minister returned to work this week. He arrived in Rome full of smiles, his face miraculously restored after he was attacked in Milan by a man who threw a replica of a cathedral at him. He touched his left cheek and told reporters, with obvious pride, that there was hardly any scar visible.
His friends tell me he is in excellent spirits. He quipped that "replicas are so cheap these days they throw them at you". His popularity seems to have been restored, although more polls are due. Those close to him claim his ratings are better than the American president's.
Plenty of Italians would shake their heads at that. They say that the prime minister has shamed their country, that he mocks the courts, that he has undermined democracy with his control of large sections of the media.
Then there is the view from abroad. He is Europe's best-known politician; known for gaffes, scandals, inappropriate remarks, alleged nights with escort girls, accusations of Mafia connections. And even this week he faces another trial while he seeks immunity from prosecution. Without doubt, in many countries, this cocktail of problems would have swept him from power.
I have spent the past two days talking to those who write about him and those who are close to him. I always ask, in these early days of 2010, whether he'll survive. Almost no one thinks he'll be forced from power.
So, the enigma of Berlusconi.
One key to his survival is his personal narrative. "He knows very well the guts of the country," said Massimo Franco, a political columnist for Corriere della Sera. Even with his immense financial power he manages to portray himself as belonging to ordinary people. Many like the fact that he is self-made, a devoted football fan, a man who breaks rules and gets away with it, a man who loves and flaunts beautiful women. Friends of his say that ten days ago, when he appeared in a Milan supermarket, he was mobbed with people shouting that they loved him. It is difficult to find out exactly what happened, but he retains a strong current of affection.
Attack in Milan
Silvio Berlusconi is very good at turning every disadvantage into an advantage. The attack in Milan confirmed, for many, his narrative that he is a victim of a hate campaign. Certainly some of the criticism has been toned down. Massimo Franco believes that Berlusconi has been able to give almost a religious dimension to his suffering. After the attack he offered his bloody face to the people. He offers forgiveness to his attacker. He calls for hate to be removed from public debate.
The Italian leader has been able to link the prosecutors, who accuse him of corruption and tax fraud, with the so-called hate campaign. The prosecutors, he said only this week, are worse than the mentally unstable man who attacked him.
The man
Berlusconi thrives on adversity. He relishes the political battle. "He is a fighter", says Carlo Rossella, an old friend. "He never gives up. He is very shrewd." It is not in his character to stand down or to be shamed into stepping aside.
Italy's silent majority
"People you couldn't imagine vote for him but are too embarrassed to admit it," one analyst told me. Italy at the moment is a centre-right country. Berlusconi has a vision that still appeals; individual freedom, economic freedom and anti-communism. Massimo Franco said that at the end of the Cold War Berlusconi understood that Italian politics needed to be redefined. He has built a party around himself.
Economic crisis
Last year Italy suffered a 5% drop in GDP. Unemployment amongst young people is running at 27%. Silvio Berlusconi has said there is no chance of cutting taxes in the immediate future. The opposition has accused him of lying to the voters, but they have not been able to offer a convincing alternative to solving the economic crisis.
As regards the downturn, the Italians have their own way of surviving. They are a nation of savers. They have strong family networks. The black economy thrives and accounts for 20% of GDP. Of those who own their own homes 85% have no mortgages.
Sex scandal
"Well, I'm not a saint," was the Italian leader's response to revelations about his parties. Time and again people will tell you "his personal life is not our problem". Italians seem reluctant to become involved in the private affairs of others. They enjoy the gossip, but most prefer not to judge.
Some do say that his media empire has promoted a TV world built around scantily-dressed showgirls. Some have even been offered seats in the European
Parliament. There is growing opposition from women's groups, who say the culture is demeaning to women, but some say the entertainment culture has helped sustain him in office.
International profile
Those close to him talk insist that he is a player on the world stage. They talk about his close relationship with the Russian Prime Minister, Vladimir Putin. They say that with the United States he is the reliable ally. After President Obama had announced the surge in Afghanistan it was Berlusconi who committed the most extra forces. Recently he moved quickly to accept body scanners. His critics say, however, that there is little substance to the idea that he is a key mediator between the Russians and the Americans. Others say that Chancellor Merkel, for one, has no interest in being close to Berlusconi.
Opposition
One of the keys to Berlusconi's survival is the opposition. It remains divided and cannot coalesce around a credible opponent. They have not been able to take advantage of Berlusconi's mistakes. One opposition MP says there is little they can do, as Berlusconi is " the centre of a massive propaganda machine". Even so, they have failed to find a political vision and a narrative to match that of the Italian leader. And so he survives. His greatest danger would be if his own coalition fell apart.
I'm 
~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~48~RS~)
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Popular? Not in my world! The publication of pictures of him smiling among some unfortunate people doesn't mean that he is popular. He is a desperate man trying to keep from falling apart. He has lost much ground and he is (rightly) under attack from the law and even from former political allies. His confidence has been shaken by the 'Milan dome attack' and by the success of the recent 'No B. Day' (No Berlusconi day). There are many speculations on the state of his health as he looks increasingly tired, bloated and in pain.
Despite his efforts to destroy Italy, the Italian economy is much healthier and unemployment lower than in many other countries, including the UK. People in Italy don't normally remortgage their homes to buy designer goods or go on expensive holidays (as done in Ireland during the boom time), they prefer saving, very wise. The black economy is by nature difficult to measure but it is only relatively significant in some sectors and geographical areas, same as here in Ireland or anywhere else...
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"Last year Italy suffered a 5% drop in GDP. Unemployment amongst young people is running at 27%"
Unemployment tend to be highest at the edge of the "EU".
Where is the UK??? DUH!
Where is Iceland?? DUH!!
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DucatiRossa is correct about Italy. That is why the crisis has not hit it so hard, for sure. Nothing to do with Berlusconi and it is inappropriate for the article to describe him in such a picaresque fashion. Berlusconi is a disaster on wheels. His economic interests extend far and the media has indeed suffered from his meddling control. I say, forget the showgirls and concentrate on the sacked journalists. Forget the froth and follow his money. Then you will see the true meaning of Berlusconi.
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EUprisoner209456731 has let his europhobia lead to his failing to engage with the topic. He does not like the ""continentals", but offers a plan for the secession of South Tyrol. Germans learned to queue from the British. Italy is as well run as anywhere else. Of course if you spend a week in Sorrento for your holidays you will not get the full flavour of Italy. But these things are off topic EUprisoner209456731. We are dealing properly with Berlusconi who after all is a bit like the other leaders like Blair, Aznar and his ilk. We cannot say that his antics are not reflected elsewhere like Northern Ireland for example. Berlusconi's financial dealings are indeed quite exotic and that is what we should bee talking about. And no one should hit him with tourist memorabilia. That is bad behaviour.
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He's not to everyone's taste but at least he's an elected Prime Minister, unlike some. Caledonian Comment
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Who are we in the UK to say that Berlusconi is bad? Who are the EU to say how the UK should run the UK? Snr Berlusconi is a good example of why the EU does not work for the UK.
He is probably a good example of why the EU does not work for other nations as well, but that is up to them.
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To DucatiRossa (1):
Italy's economy is actually in a very bad condition, and no, I'm not talking about usual economic indicators, but a much more fundamental indicator and that is fertility rate. In 2000 it was 1.18 births/woman and in 2008 it was 1.3. In today the result of low birth rate doesn't show, actually for now it shows as positive for the current state economy as less money is needed for education and childcare, however in the long run there will be less workforce to pay for a larger group of non-workers.
Of course Italy isn't alone in the club of low birth rate countries, but add to that high debt to GDP ration, state budgets that have been in deficit for ever, slow growth rate of production and low amounts of investment to Research and Development and you have a very dire situation on your hands.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_fertility_rate
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/eco_res_and_dev_exp_of_gdp-economy-research-development-expenditure-gdp
I would say that Berlusconi will be remembered by historians as an selfish leader that did nothing when the fundamental structures of the Italian society went slowly but surely down...
I do hope that after Berlusconi, Italy will finally have somebody, or rather more, a general reform of politics to put the country first and fix the fundamental problems of the society.
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Dear Jukka Rohila, you are right about the Italian birth rate, however as human beings we should now think seriously at the damage of a continuous increase of population and the inevitable scarcity of resources. Continuous growth is just not sustainable. As for the expenditure in R&D, it is not necessarily significant. After all countries that invest more money in health do not necessarily healtier citizens, sometimes the opposite is trues. We have to look at what is done with the money set aside, rather that merely look at the amount.
You say that Berlusconi will be remembered as a selfish leader, I hope instead that he will not be remembered at all!
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Population statistics should be looked at over a longer time scale than for Jukka's comments. Germany is in a veryvery poor condition by the same criteria. Even Ireland, traditionally high is below 2.Two is regarded as sustainable and appeals intuitively. I will say though that the figures don't have goodness of fit at the experiential level. Back to Berlusconi everyone! The man's connections are doubtful and it is a disgrace. It shows also the weakness of the labour movement which has been compromised otherwise he would have been ousted. It is all very well to bash the labour movement but then you get a lumpen mass who support Berlusconi. People have lost their old attachments and are attached only to personalities and celebrities. That is the way Berlusconi can win and fascists can take over.
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EUPrisoner,
Thanks for your wishes. There is talk right now to get us Austrian citizenship so we have dual one. I wouldn't mind. At the same time, we are mainly independent of Rome. We pay no taxes to them and make 95% of the laws ourselves. Our police are required to speak German and we have German schools, TV etc. The only disadvantage we would get by joining Austria would be that we couldn't pride ourselves on "our" nation's great football.
Either way, I respect Berlusconi for becoming the self-made, successful person that he is and many Italians do, too.
What they love about him is the fact that whatever he does, he is successful. Furthermore, his antics are, at times, even amusing. The Obama-Gaffe was actually hilarious to many people as it really WAS meant as a compliment and Italians know it. They also know that it wasn't supposed to be said but the fact that he did amused many.
Furthermore, he is very strict on immigration and foreign criminals.
Also, he loves what he does, especially women :D . Is that so wrong?
Finally, there is no "propaganda machine". That is ridiculous. Italy is and will remain a strong Western democracy and if he messes up, he will get voted out of office as you (mostly) do with your own.
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Just from the comments here one can see that "Berlusca", as we call him affectionately, is very divisive. This is especially true in Italy. Either you love him or you hate him.
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To Gheryando (11) and (12):
What I'm wondering is that why do people keep voting him when he clearly doesn't deliver any positive change in the nations economy or society. Is it because neither opposition or people in his center-right party just aren't any better? Or don't people just care about it?
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Jukka,
he delivers. More than the people before him. Thats the whole misconception about him abroad. He also managed to stay in power the full term. A first. Clearly though, the opposition is unable to get their act together and deserve no better.
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To Gheryando (14):
I decided to look for more views on Berlusconi and found this...
http://www.hpronline.org/index.php/current-issue/worldsection/750-understanding-italys-prime-minister
In my mind Berlusconi doesn't deliver, but then again, different culture, different society. To me the man is just a total disaster.
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About Berlusconi "delivering"... (statement from the SudTiroler Rechts Partei.
Well Mr B delivered just:
- a lot of unconstitutional laws in order to escape from the penalties any normal citizen should have received
- laws allowing tax evasion (so called “fiscal hedge” for tax evader and capital exporters… even the OECD complained about)
- laws allowing people that build illegally even in protected area
- laws in favour of his MONOPOLISTIC position as media TV tycoon (Mediaset Corp) and preventing any other stron competitor to enter the Italian market (look at Telecom Italia or Sky Corp failing attempts to break the monopolistic structure)
- laws to prevent his fellows (usually his attorneys) to be prosecuted for bribing judges…
- Sinister warm relationship to sinister rulers like Kaddafi of Lybia, Putin of Russia, Lukashenko of Belarus, Nazarbaev of Kazakhstan
-… etc
Sud Tiroler Mann!
You should have a better understanding of the country you belong(?!?)to!
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"Plenty of Italians would shake their heads at that. They say that the prime minister has shamed their country, that he mocks the courts, that he has undermined democracy with his control of large sections of the media."
"Then there is the view from abroad. He is Europe's best-known politician; known for gaffes, scandals, inappropriate remarks, alleged nights with escort girls, accusations of Mafia connections."
Elan, Penache, a zest for life. That is Berlisconi to a tee. That is the essence of Italy. He lives the life President Clinton could only dream about. Of course Putin loves him. If Putin doesn't have it in him to be a swinger, the next best thing is to hang out with the genuine article.
What difference does it make if Italy's economy, its society is going down the tubes, it's doomed anyway and besides it is entirely unimportant. This is a great diversion for Italy, for Europe, and for the world.
"Chancellor Merkel, for one, has no interest in being close to Berlusconi."
I'm sure the feeling is mutual. Berlisconi can do much better. Just compare her to those beautiful women around him. Why should he give angel eyes a second glance. Or Ashton for that matter. I hope he puts some sweet young thing in as an MEP. Can you imagine Ashton or Merkel giving a speech? All those old men not paying one second of attention to what's being said or who's saying it, all eyes fixed on Berlisconi's gal Friday...and Saturday...and Sunday :-) Must be nice.
Has People Magazine written him up yet? How about Playboy Magazine? How about...Playgirl Magazine? Berlisconi paired up with Paris Hilton, now that would be a kick :-)
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There is no such thing as the "SudTiroler Rechts Partei"..
Either way, the man is definitely not like Merkel. But the alternative is worse. (so far)
Rosolino, I frankly couldn't care less about what happens south of our "border".
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There could hardly be two more opposites than Gordon Brown and Silvio Berlusconi each a paradigm of their respective cultures. Death walking in a gray banker's suit having exited a Rolls Royce Limousine versus life in an Armani suit with a pair of expensives $1000 sunglasses, a pair of expensive $1000 shoes, a pair of expensive mistresses, one on each arm, and a Ferrari with the engine purring softer than the girls.
"Oh Willie Willie when will you be wise? said the bird on Nellie's hat" as the song goes. Actually she who must be obeyed has kept Willie on a very short leash ever since the Monica days. Ooooh how hard it must have been for her to keep her temper. I wonder how many times picking up a heavy frying pan or rolling pin and bopping him one crossed her mind. I'll bet she's got the Secret Serivice reporting on his every move. He can't sneeze without her knowing about it. Poor man is #$%&$whipped. Do Italian men give a fig about marital fidelity? I don't think so.
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Well I don't know how for Italians, Russians like Berlusconi. Because during his rule Italy was friendly to Russia, didn't criticise us, or didn't - as much as SOME :o) others, and we were feeling, how to say, safe and warm from the Italy side. Russian tourists like to go bathe there for holidays, Russian shops are full of white metal? how to call it? kitchen ware made in Italy - so, they clearly trade with us, one can see it with un-armed eye.
"sinister" Putin, aha.
But in terms of relations with another country I don't find Putin being "sinister". With Italy he arranged things good for us. What else would you like, I don't know honestly. And I think it's Berlusconi's plus as well, that he kept Russia relations good for Italian businesses.
It is of course good and respectable to keep strict principles and apply them to others, well not sure, about applying to others, but remind me what change it made for anybody for countries who were Russia - un-friendly, in the past decade. Did any one improve from that? :o)))))))))
Did we improve? What has changed at all, for crying out loud.
And surely you will fall down from your feet before you find here, say, any British goods. Though I can make a list of what is "exportable" in 5 minutes. In fact, I keep receiving the badly wanted articles by post :o)
With no hope ever, to go to a local Boots. Ah what to say. Only Scotland wool things would be cleaned out from the counters here in 10 minutes, if anyone realised all Russian sheep stayed in the South in republics forever. And I don't know what they did with them now, the impression is wool has vanished. Stockings! Thick woolen and cotton and mixture winter stockings! Does any one realise that not one idiotic company sell in Russia thick winter stockings! But exclusively transparent chic ones measured in den. In the country where winter never ends. For how many years more will I be getting stockings by mail system for Chrsitmas and Easter and birthday? Instead of going to a nearest shop.
I don't know. Apparently until the ones who criminally hold those stockings :o)))))) concept privatised for themselves :o))))) will continue to stay principled!
And MA is right, Berlusconi is life.
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WA - besides the fact that Italy didn't critizise Russia as much as others, Putin and Berlusca are personal friends. Putin and his daughters routinely come to Berlusconi in the summer for holidays. Berlusconi recently went on a private trip to Russia to see his pal Vladimir and he showed him some new Russian military gear (He even let Berlusconi drive a planeship/shipplane...dunno how its called). After the attack on Berlusconi, Putin called Silvio and congratulated him: On having reacted very "manly".
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One reason Russia has good relations with Italy...they have no common borders and Italy has no alliances with any country that borders Russia. Yet Italy was a good NATO ally. Many planes would have taken off from Italy to bomb Russia had it come to war with the USSR.
Tchaikowsky must have liked Italy otherwise why would he have written Capricio Italien or Souvenir de Florence. Did Rimsky-Korsakov prefer Spain? Of Kors he did :-)
WA, aren't you going to tell me that Russians invented spaghetti, pizza, radio, and most other things ordinarily associated with Italy? Wasn't Ferrari actually a Russian emigre? Didn't Russian explorers first discover and settle Italy in prehistoric times? Aren't all Italians actually descended from Russians? :-) Well, at least WE KNOW Russians invented jazz.
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WA;
"And MA is right, Berlusconi is life."
Silvio Berlusconi will have more life in him ten years after he's dead than Gordon Brown will have during his whole life put together.
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5. At 2:50pm on 14 Jan 2010, followthewabbit wrote:
"EUprisoner209456731 has let his europhobia lead to his failing to engage with the topic. He does not like the ""continentals", "
EUpris: That is not true. There are certain things he does not like. There are certain things he does like and wishes the British would copy.
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I find it unacceptable to be in a political union with the Italians
I hope that the moderator will restore my comment. I am entitled to tell the truth.
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5. At 2:50pm on 14 Jan 2010, followthewabbit wrote:
"EUprisoner209456731 ... Germans learned to queue from the British."
EUpris: My German pupils told me they did! "In my village we queue. We have British soldiers living in our village and they formed a queue at the butchers shop. We watched them and we thought it was qood idea and now we all queue."
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5. At 2:50pm on 14 Jan 2010, followthewabbit wrote:
" ... Italy is as well run as anywhere else ..."
EUpris: That is simply not true.
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"The prosecutors, he said only this week, are worse than the mentally unstable man who attacked him."
EUpris: So if Berlusconi doews not trust them, why should I???
Why should I accept easy extradition to Italy??
Why should I want to be in a political union with courts that have Italian judges in them??
Just in case you can't work it out - I don't !!!!!!!!!!!!!
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16. At 10:11pm on 14 Jan 2010, Rosolino wrote a whole load of disturbing stuff. And I am supposed to want to be in a political; union with the Italian??????????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!??????????????
*'"$**+" !!!
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In every family, one of the sisters is the beautiful one.
Having dealt with Italian democracy, I'd like to comment on youth unemployment. The topic fascinates me these days.
We hear numbers that seem very high coming from all parts of the EU, but not much comment on the longer term social costs. Or benefits, if that argument can be made.
For myself, when I read that roughly one in three graduates can't get a job...... I wonder where that goes, and having thought on that for a while, where it comes from.
Where it goes is fairly obvious to thinking folks. It sends a society into a scenario whereby truly huge numbers of working age people are forced to live on subsistence incomes, issued by the ever loving state. At the same time, that money has to come from somewhere. Given the economic crisis has destroyed profits, and therefore taxes on profits, this means governments must increase debt or raise direct taxation. Or both. And that make industry cry, and move elsewhere.
And that kills growth, and youth employment. A nasty, nasty feedback loop.
Well, that is, I believe, the classical economic view. Jukka might have something to say about that, on behalf of the textbook elite.
One might be tempted to look at this sort of scenario and wonder where the hope is at. From where does the growth come? With an aging population of baby boomers now retiring and needing incredibly expensive medical assistance so that they can die more slowly, we are told that young people need to work harder for less, as their taxes must pay for the masses of aged folks.
In this context, the Obama plan to make medicine socialized strikes me as just another scheme to buy baby boomer votes, at the expense of the younger generations.
And I suppose we will see the same sort of thing in Europe, as European states face stalling economies, swiftly rising health care costs, and a younger generation who have no reason to work, as post tax wages for those who do work approach more or less the same subsistence level as those who live on the dole.
In short, it is a demographic time bomb, if bombs can be said to make a "splat!" sound for long periods of time.
The fate of young people is worth considering in detail. I've been speaking to a few recently, university students and those who left school to work. The poverty is appalling. It is hidden, but really appalling, nonetheless. I truly can't tell the difference between those who study on government loans, those who are on the dole, and those who work. They all have the same sorts of lives. They have no disposable income worth talking about.
Wages have become almost worthless, when compared to my own parents standards of living.
Here is one concrete example, although one can choose almost any commodity and make the same comparison.
My father said that when he was at University, one could get a summer job on the road gangs and earn enough in three months to buy a brand new car. Buy it outright, for cash. And that was no big deal. You could do that and still drink and smoke whilst "saving".
When I told that to some young folks in the UK recently, the looks of disbelief that I received were disheartening. Working for 8 pounds an hour, before tax, is a good wage for a young adult. But with the cost of living, the idea of buying a brand new car outright after three months work is just ridiculous.
Just as ridiculous is the thought of saving enough money to buy a house. Saving for a deposit, perhaps. That would take years, and then the interest rates will be crippling, but buying a small house in a bad location outright? The idea makes young people laugh out loud. there is simply no such thing as young working folks saving to buy houses these days.
Now i am not talking about big fancy cars or big fancy houses. Just ordinary cars, and ordinary houses. These things are not what young people aspire to buying outright anymore. To obtain these things, young people must take on large sums of debt. And then they have to pay interest on that debt.
So young people these days are being slammed with economic hardship from multiple angles. They are being asked to take on a tax burden for an older generation who have enjoyed prosperous lives, and they are being forced into debt slavery by the private sector. And then they are made to feel grateful if they can get a badly paid job, because one in three miss out.
I feel for the younger generation, I really do. They haven't been given a very good deal by their elders. I understand the resentment, and indeed the contempt, they feel for those who are supposed to school them in responsibility.
Over christmas, I even found myself indulging in some very dark humour with my parents generation. In discussions about the demographic time bomb, I was asked what could be done about it. My "joke" was that, given that my parents generation had lived without fiscal responsibility, the least they could do is to die as cheaply as possible.
I got some laughs, for sure. But this issue of generational theft via the crooked systems of democracy in the west, I don't think they are going away.
Berlusconi will die soon, and he will be missed by newspaper editors. But his life has incurred costs, and when he dies the costs will continue to be felt by his society. The same can be said for his whole generation. They have lived beyond their means, and soon they will die and be safe from the terror of debts their children and grandchildren must pay.
It is a curious situation, for someone my age, given my understanding of the world. I wonder, can it be lawful for one generation to sell their children into debt slavery to an elite class of financiers who structured the political system from the outset?
And if it is lawful, this thing called representation by party members, can it last?
When does the contempt and misery of the young turn into hatred and anger towards the elder generation?
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MA and Cheryando, sorry for being so un-responsive, new toy computer that speaks :o) so I am terrorising you tube now instead :o)
Got myself 60 LOL "favourites" in 2 days :o))))), and as Vysotsky would have said - It's Not Yet Evening!
Why does it ask me to in-put own videos? How can I? I can't. Does it mean that you steal others' videos and re-name them as you like and make them "yours"? I've only mastered so far "selected videos' row (of others) for myself. Some people even "subscribe" to me but I've got nothing! ? Only "selected". Can someone else see my "selected-elected"?
On Berlusconi I didn't know Cherry Cheryando they are so much pals with Putin, I mean I know, but only courtesy of BBC. At home this isn't much advertised simply that relations with Italy are good and how did that happen :o)) nobody is informed.
People think as MA said, not immediate bordering neighbours
:o)))) "must be that's why" :o))))) Approximately.
Well if they are friends I wish Putin learned from Berlusconi to be more spectacular and open! :o))))) I think it's good when politicians are visible and out-spoken or how to say, not creepy hiders, because creepy hiders - hell knows what they are thinking, and there may be surprises in store.
I think I prefer more outstanding how to say brighter types, and in that Italians are lucky, they always know what theirs is up to.
And overall, with our "unforgettable" ones :o)))) there will be at least something to remember! in history!
Because honestly looking at some types (abroad :o) one wonders how flies don't flop dead from boredom, how to say, in flight, just by looking at them.
:o)))))))
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o, remembered a last week's Russian joke :o)
"The knock by the statuette did leave its trace, after all, on the health of the Italian leader. As he is said to be buying a new Russian-made car!" :o))))))
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And, MA, I am really sorry, that is, Cherry Cheryando I am sorry, Russians did invent radio. Published the scheme in the Russian tech magazines back then subscribed to in Europe, began serie production, well "serie", dozens in the Russian-French consortium founded, for the Navy of France and Russia, in Kronshtadt island, here, by St. Petersburg. An Italian prof. from Bologna university, was in the public presentation well, noot "public" for the tech chaps, here, in St. Petersburg, and brought home the sketches. We didn't hide, boasted, wanted it to be known. Not for money born, as usual :o))))
Marconi, in his dad's house, in Bologna, tried to build a sample on this Russian sketch. And built. And added to it his own invention, a battery and a bell, that buzzed. Which was convenient, LOL, we don't deny, at least your know when someone is calling you :o)))))
And supplied his design to British some? scientific society, can look up in Russian wiks, for a patent. Called it, by the way, not "radio invention" bt "improvements to the radio invention". The first British scientist who analysed it, wrote a review that the italian design is Russian design-based plus bell. The patent was not issued at once, the Italian chap continued to add descriptions to it and explanations for I think nearly 2 years' time, after applying for the patent, so the British commission could never start deciding over the registration, he kept saying "the work is unfinished". He simply hurried up initially to put a foot it, to apply with whatever. And even the initial one was already called "improvements to the scheme".
Anyway btw work in Kronshtadt in process and Italian initial application there was 3 months' time :o))))
So I am sorry. We invented radio.
On the pizza though, if it makes life more agreeable for someone, we don't attempt :o))))))
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It's really easy to remember, all Alexanders.
Alex Ladygin, 1872 invented to pump out air, 1873 lit French underwear shops :o))) in St. Petersburg Nevsky prospekt with it, 11 June 1874 patented, in 2 months patented in 12 countries incl. France, Great Britain, Austro-Hungary and even far away India.
How do you manage to celebrate Edison of 1878 is beyond me :o))))
Though must say he was also modest, like Marconi, patented LOL "Improvements to the scheme" :o))))))
Still one thing is PR another business, I am afraid that subway you have in New York was first lit up by Ladygin's lamps, not Edisons, Ladygin hired to electrify your New York subway.
Because when Edison's improvements to the Russian light-bulb were still within coal, Ladygin already improved :o))) himself from coal sticks to wolfram. HJe decided wolfram would be better :o)))))
So if you happen to have at home something glassy with no air inside and a wolfram thread - that's still Alexander Ladygin.
But of course if you are into weavy eneregy-saving ones - it's not.
And, oh, again, forgot: on hamburgers - we don't attempt. :o))))))))
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WA;
"Why does it ask me to in-put own videos? How can I? I can't. Does it mean that you steal others' videos and re-name them as you like and make them "yours"?"
You can load any videos you want to, those you have in your computer from other sources or those you've made yourself such as from a digital camcorder uploaded to your computer's hard drive. This is the perfect opportunity for exhibitionists of all stripes. There are however certain copyright infringements, pornography, and other restrictions which may not allow certain content on that site. You'd have to read the rules. Actually when it "asks" you, what it really means is that it invites you to if you want to. Or you can just look at what others have posted. I think you can also partition some videos to be available to anyone and some to be only available to restricted "friends" you specify.
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A human being cannot steal information. The very idea is abhorrent, and constitutes a ridiculous use of the law as a weapon. In many respects, human beings are defined by the ability to share information. It gives us speech, libraries, literacy and everything that has ever flowed from these.
In other words, sharing information defines humanity. Now the larger corporations and all governments want to control the sharing of information, and their arguments are based on economics. What a massive surprise!!
That says way more about corporate feudalism than it does about law and information. The fact is, with the way western "democracy" works in western courts, if libraries were invented today, they'd be deemed illegal and shut down.
Think about that for a moment. That is where corporate control of the law (it used to be called "fascism") has brought us. If libraries were invented today, they would be shut down by governments on courts orders.
It makes me ashamed, how far humanity has fallen at the hands of the lawyers working for corporations. Legal fascism is a pox upon humanity, and yet it is the most highly paid of professions.
Anyway, Alice, Popov didn't "invent" the radio. Radio waves were always present. Faraday found them and Maxwell explained them. Hertz confirmed them.
Popov, Tesla and Marconi were just guys trying to make a buck out of them. All any of them invented were mechanisms to make a buck.
Popov worked for the military, Tesla for the banks, and Marconi for whichsoever military goon offered his aristocratic self the most coin at the time.
If any of them had half.... one quarter of the brains of Maxwell, they would have nutted out relativity before Einstein got to it.
Maxwell is the reason we have radios.
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"One of the keys to Berlusconi's survival is the opposition"
- Another is the the press, including BBC. I sincerely doubt if Berlusconi's voters have much understanding of economy or the state governed by law.
I hesitate to evaluate this blog article. Let me instead refer to the economy section of this weeks edition of Die Zeit.
It analyses the problem of Greece, Italy and Spain and has an interview with professor of economy Francesco Giavazzi (Milano). All three countries have considerable debt, and Berlin resp. Frankfurt am Main is heading towards an enlargement of its de facto jurisdiction: Countries, which cannot pay their debt, can be deprived the control of its economic policy.
Since parts of the British press is concerned with economy I assume this information is not completely unknown in the UK.
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One addition:
The state debt of Greece amounts to 113% of the GDP. The Italian is 115%.
Please read it again: 115%, two per cent more than Greece.
It put's this blog article in perspective.
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Deutsch Mann!
Look twice before stating!
Greece national public debt is 120% and its current deficit is more than 12%. Italy has a current deficit about 5% of GNP. Bundesrepublik isn't getting very different figures.
Because the financial markets understands (unlike you!)the spred between Bund and 10Y-BPT is 0,85% (3,28 against 4,11, as Jan 15th, 10:45).
The same spread against Greek 10Y Bonds is about 2,50%.
Do you realize reality now?
Auf Wiedersehen!
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About the Person in the Wonderland (just there and out of the reality..)
Sorry for the "sinister" term. It's too much.
Putin is just one of those usual "Political Criminal" person we have, we had and we will always have in our history.
Just like his friend Mr B.
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The figures I mentioned are to be found in this weeks edition of Die Zeit.
Spain: 54%
Ireland: 66%
Portugal: 77%
Greece: 113%
Italy: 115%
debt of GDP per year.
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About the EU prisoner (?!?).
Please Brits, we Europeans are really sick of those guys throwing shit on EU. England always was a PROBLEM for Europe since the times of Henry IV°. Please, refrain to add further problems.
Either cooperate or leave, instead of staying in just to slow the process toward a federal Europe.
UK was desperately willing to enter CEE in the seventies after the nonsense EFTA attempt. As desperate it is now, thanks to Blair the Liar.
And will be worse with the nonsense, ideological rightist conservatives, soon.
So what now?
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About the SudTiroler Mann.
The Rechts Partei it’s just you, according to your ideas.
As for me, I care about what happens in the Italian “Provincia Autonoma Alto Adige”. Especially about the fate of its magnificent Alps environment.
Because it’s Italy, geographically and historically. And Europe too.
Buona giornata!
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Rosolino,
you seem to be educated. Just to remind you that you destroy that notion when using expletives.
Don't worry about the Alps. They will be there long after you and I are gone.
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"Berlusconi has a vision that still appeals; individual freedom, economic freedom and anti-communism."
A slight variation to "... individual freedom, economic freedom and anti-socialism" would be a vote-winner in England.
Pity no politician here has the vision - or the guts.
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"I frankly couldn't care less about what happens south of our "border"."
Let's look at concepts not at formalities.
If this is education you are, frankly, a very, very educated person.
PS
Of course I konw very well that the real, respectable, SudTiroler VolksPartei never was in favour of Mr. B. Unlike you.
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Someone is definitevely missing the real point.
The problem is much more in the tendency (the current debt flows) than in the past (the debt stock). The problem is Greece has a 12% debt flow, very difficult to fix.
As well as UK has 10% flow, USA has 8/9% flow, Japan has 13% flow (2009/2010 data). All of them aren't easy to fix.
Financial market takes care of it. I hope having been more convincing now.
Of course, as sincere European, I wish the best for Greece, for Ireland and everyone else in the EMU.
I hope and I think everything will be done in order to leave the current "emergency room".
Europe is an emulative and solidarity game not a disruptive competitive one.
We are not here to kick out anyone. Instead to engage everyone, growing together.
Even those, with a lot of patience and love, who doesn't care about what's happening out of their (southern) borders.
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#48. Rosolino,
You are approaching the point. The front page of Die Zeit shows the flags of Greece, Spain and Ireland with the stamp “Insolvenz” (insolvency) on the Greek.
(When the UK is not even mentioned, it is because it is outside the Euro = the centre of the Union.)
Not least Paris and Berlin will have to pay if this insolvency occurs. What can Rome do? Probably not much, on the contrary. Thus, the centre governments or the European bank in Frankfurt am Main will take over a role, it actually should not have, and hardly wants to have.
I shall not go into the political aspects of all this, but it might perhaps be a job for the journalists of the BBC, when discussing the circumstances in various European countries.
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Rosolino,
the SVP tries to work with whomever is in power and at times, sided with the PDL (Berlusconi's Party). Thus your point is wrong.
Regarding the CA and debt flow economics, you are right, however.
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And I really don't care much what happens south of us, as long as we can do things our own way. We have Germanic order and we like it this way. I understand, however, why Italians vote for him and I respect Berlusca because he is successful in the society that he comes from.
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"I care about what happens in the Italian “Provincia Autonoma Alto Adige..
Because it’s Italy, geographically and historically."
You seem to be closer to Berlusconi and his right wing pals than you think...
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It's frankly disappointing that European problems could be red, still, in terms of “Who will pay the bill, now?”.
If Schumann, De Gaulle, Adenauer, De Gasperi, Brandt should have has this mindset Europe would be just as it was in 1919.
Moreover, Europe is UE, not a collection of bilateral links, please!
ECB-BCE is in Frankfurt as European institution not as branch of BundesBank as well as Strasbourg is not a branch of the Elysée, and the Treaty of Roma an Italian contract.
About the “man being an island” (John Donne, you was wrong!) I can only say “God bless you, guy"...
PS
Just a poll: Do you think California will leave soon USD and USA?
Either choose: Yes, No, May be, I dont' know, No opinion.
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If the country was ready for democracy, I would hope that B. was defeated.
A few months ago I was quarrelling with my ex-stalinist uncle, and he ended up admitting that Communist parties, being ousted from power after the war, plunged themselves into 1) Publishing houses 2) Press (yes, it is not all in the hands of the Prime Minister, indeed far from it) 3) Judiciary, and tried to gain control of them, in order to actively influence the country's politics. Many of Berlusconi's enthusiastic journalists are former communists who trained themselves at that school. Those who didn't fall under his spell, and are still at the opposition, nevertheless keep using the same tools (as the old "adagio" of the Stalinist historiography says: "Hide smaller truths in order to benefit bigger ones"). That is why many judges see nothing wrong in targeting a single man - or coalition: they are genuinely convinced that they're serving Democracy, even if they break its rules.
This triggers (or the other way around, it is irrelevant who started) the same behaviour by Berlusconi and his men (many of which, remember, are former communists). All are convinced they're fighting for freedom, they dig their trenches, and the State's interest remains in the No-Man's Land.
I seriously do not think Italy is ready for Democracy. And yet, things are going on somehow, and better that other states. And the award goes to? Italians. No politician, no journalist, no judge or company CEO. Just plain, average italians, struggling to go on.
There's no Good vs Bad Hollywood story here, Mr. Hewitt, although I acknowledge that the average english reader would prefer to read the new weekly deeds of the italian buffoon. There's a tight, strongly ideological fight for power, in which Democracy only plays the necessary part of a theatre stage.
One last word: someone mentioned Sky, entangled in the fight with Berlusconi for media control in Italy. Well, if you're concerned about Democracy, you may want to give a look to the list of TV stations, Newspapers and publishing houses owned by Rupert Murdoch worldwide (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_assets_owned_by_News_Corporation): Berlusconi's "empire" looks like a local dwarf compared to it. It scares me much more to think that a single man owns much of the anglosaxon world's media, and could shift people's minds from one day to another, at the command of ... who?
And yet if you meet someone in London, Dublin, or New York and ask "Who is Berlusconi?" They'll answer "ah, the italian politician, the one who owns all the media". If you ask: "who is Murdoch?" They'll either answer "he's, ... I think ... Sky, isn't it?" or "He's the crazy guy in the A-Team"
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dt;
There you go again;
"A human being cannot steal information. The very idea is abhorrent, and constitutes a ridiculous use of the law as a weapon. In many respects, human beings are defined by the ability to share information. It gives us speech, libraries, literacy and everything that has ever flowed from these."
The next thing you are going to tell me is that there is no such thing as laundering illicitly gotten money. That would not surprise me one bit...coming from a citizen of a country whose main business and success is to facilitate the laundering and hiding of illicitly gotten money.
As you very well know, the patent and copyright laws exist as an incentive for people to create new ideas by allowing them exclusive control for a fixed period of time over the use of those ideas so that they can profit from them. This is why the US is so innovative and China isn't. There is no point in spending the time, energy, money, to create something new for the world out of nothing but your own mind if anyone else can use it freely as soon as word gets out. Most of the civilized world recognizes that fact. I'll bet you have no problem with piracy of industrial products either. Think about that the next time you are on an airplane. Some of the parts used to repair or maintain that plane may be pirated and do not meet the original manufacturer's spcifications. And the medicine you get overseas may also be pirated and not even work. If you die from one of these thefts, you will have no one to blame but yourself :-)
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I believe that Berlusconi just took advantage of the mistakes made by his opponents, the politicians of the centre-left alliance. In fact, Romano Prodi easily won over Berlusconi two general polls, in 1996 and in 2006. In both cases, however, Prodi was obliged to leave the office after two years because of the divisions amongst his supporting centre-left allies. Most Italians believe that both times Prodi was put aside by "backstage" plots organized by the major leaders of his centre-left coalition (namely, D'Alema, Marini and possibly Veltroni). Those plots against Prodi, prepared by his own allies, paved the way to Berlusconi, who was elected in 2001 and 2008 mainly because the centre-left voters and supporters were disappointed with their own leaders and depressed. At present, the centre-left parties have not yet found a common program and a common candidate. Centre-left leaders are continuously disputing against each other and none of them has enough political support to challenge Berlusconi, who is gaining popularity just because he has no true opponents.
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democracythreat @37 - ghrrr
:o)))
OK, boxes, devices, not the discovery of the fundamental science, how it's split here - into "fundamental science" and "applied inventions".
But even Encyclopedia Britannica seems to vaguely confirm that our box was the first box. It was already squeeking and scribbling, in fact, was not "radio" in modern understanding, as I understand it there was no voice or music FM :o) but rather a Morze telegraph, before Marconi applied for the patent in Great Britain. To say nothing before he received the patent, a year after application.
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/470141/Aleksandr-Popov
Then, Popov wasn't after a buck. He was an ordinary teacher in the Navy school and all he did was to keep students informed of the newest science inventions, with a bit of own improvements, so that the systems could be demonstrated to audience better.
He clearly explained "here I've modidfied Hertz' device a bit", "there I've modified Lodge's device a bit", etc.
Russian phsysisists were always aware that Hertz and Lodge were the 2nd generation of radio, the first ones being the "fundmanetal science" achievements.
And it is common knowledge in Russia that Hertz and Lodge - the 2nd "radio generation" invented theirs simultaneously, only Lodge delayed publication "till the autumn, after the summer holidays" :o)
So Popov knew he is 3rd generation, after fundamental - 1st, Hertz and Lodge - 2nd.
All the crap and foam and competition started only after Marconi's PR success advertised as "inventor". That's when Popov got nervous, and felt offended.
When he showed his improvements to Hertz-Lodge he clearly stated it's improvements on Hertz-Lodge and acted in the "fundamental" culture manner - didn't apply any where, for no "patents", and that his work was used by Russian Navy then it's simply because he was a phsyics teacher for the Navy, and when Kronshtadt workshops began production of his boxes he did not "sell it" to anybody, simply, how to say, it works, let's make several.
He received state Russian tsar's premium, a bonus for it later, but that was tsar's free will, an award, in recognition of the usefulness of his walkie-talkie between Russian ships. A big money, but years later, and it was a bonus, not a must.
When the French company, someone E. Ducrete, addressed him for the scheme, wrote they'd like to buy the patent, Popov was at a loss, said he doesn't have any "patent", haven't thought of it, but that he can simply give them the scheme if they want.
And the French company - just imagine how sweet people were back then, in the beg., before all the competitions' style began, replied that they won't take FOC (!!!!!) but that they suggest to insititute a joint venture :o))))), where production of the devices will take place in Kronshtadt and France, on French capital, and Popov's will be technical guidance. And the company was formed "Popov-Ducrete consortium" and made boxes for the French Navy.
Marconi was able to patent only in Britain, because AIG and Ducrete had Popov's, and AIG remembered they had Hertz anyway before, in Russia Russia had Popov's, in the USA the Americans had Tesla, so all these countries refused Marconi saying thanks we've got our own.
Why Britain hasn't refused having Lodge is un-clear. But as "improvements" Marconi got patent for the UK.
Even that Lodge and Hertz competeted, Lodge was very sweet commenting about Hertz.
Even that Popov developed Lodge-Hertz's further - Lodge spoke very approvingly of Popov's improvements. They were not so cut-throats at each other, but quite friendly.
But yes later on the Marconi's widely advertised success as "radio inventor" did make many earlier chaps nervous, Popov included. Any way nervous or un-nervous, he died soon after.
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I saw someone talking improperly about the crucial Italian problem of "conflict of interest".
Murdoch, being a business leader, isn't and couldnt be in any civil country of the world, a political competitor, head of government and judge bribers at the same time. Like Mr B.
Thailandia actually had one similar(the creepy Thaksin) but almost the entire country was willing to get rid of him soon.
About Alto Adige: you forgot I wrote "and European too".
That is the the difference between being (or feeling) an island (and insulated...) and a community. That is the difference btw the usual european populistic right and the european democratic and federalist ideal.
About Mr B being a nationalist Italian: well, you don't even know what such an ideal means. Garibaldi and Mazzini were, Mr B (and Bossi) not at all.
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Thanks God! We were just missing comments about the dangerous Stalinist and Communist oppositions against Mr B.
After some laughing, please, let’s look at the Italian history (not at the Mr B’s version one!).
After having kicked-off the fascist (today allies of Mr B) Italian parties like Communist and Socialist (pro Soviet-Union too, until 1956) were some of the founders of the “Repubblica Italiana” and its precious “Costituzione”.
Together with Catholic Democrats and Liberals.
The best political community we ever had in Italy since the fall of the Roman Empire. That was and is Italy.
Unfortunately the current TV-subculture is wide-spreading a propagandistic, low level version of the history that can seriously affect weaker minds.
And it did. As Italian: sorry for that!
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Anonimolombardo,
Spot on. Fantastic explanation.
Regarding Murdoch, he isn't even British and has more influence in British politics through his media than Berlusconi has. (Who else could pride himself on making a whole country anti-EU?)
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Rosolino
deflection is not refutal. I am all for a federal Europe. That has nothing to do with our previous argument. Maybe you should brush up on your pre 1945 history a bit. (Especially the part in which Mussolini tried to "Italianize" our region, which previously had below 3% Italian speakers and now has 35%+, all concentrated in two cities) by sending up thousands of poor southern Italians and give them key positions in business and industry. Anyways, hippies always sing "kumbayah" until they turn to anarchists when their idealized world is smashed into pieces by the sledgehammer of reality, so of course you think, South Tyrol (or as you call it: the "Italian Provincia Autonoma Alto Adige".
Interesting to note that "South Tyrol" denotes it being "south" while the Italian name for it "Alto Adige" denotes it being "north". Now what do the inhabitants call it again?
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Thank You God! Danke, mein Gott!
The Italian und SudTiroler populistic right, just appearing live and united right now!
No more southern borders!
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as I said..deflection is not refutal. Now go read some books.
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By the way, I don't mind "no more southern borders" as long as it comes with "no more southern interference/invasion"
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43. At 10:16am on 15 Jan 2010, Rosolino wrote:
"About the EU prisoner (?!?).
Please Brits, we Europeans are really sick of those guys throwing shit on EU."
EUpris: Many continetasls agree with me. Some of "we Europeans" don't. 77% of Germans wanted a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty. Austrians are about as hostile to the "EU" as the Brits.
"England always was a PROBLEM for Europe since the times of Henry IV°. Please, refrain to add further problems."
EUpris: NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We were promised a referendum. The British government betrayed the people of the UK with the support of the "EU". We do not have q functioning democracy in the UK. If you are fed up with us then start a campaign to get us thrown out. It could get a lot worse. There could be blood on the streets, which I do not want. I want to be friendly with the continentals but not through the "EU".
"Either cooperate or leave, instead of staying in just to slow the process toward a federal Europe."
EUprisw: The majority of continentals seem not to want your federal Europe. Representative democracy isn't working. Give the people referendums before they storm the palaces of your "EU"-Dictatorship.
"UK was desperately willing to enter CEE in the seventies after the nonsense EFTA attempt."
EUpris: As I recall we entered the Common Market not the EEC. Common Market! Get the word "MARKET" !! We were lied to then by slimy politicians and the BBC. I wanted to join the Common Market but only because the BBC had misinformed me and I didn't really understand what is was. We were lied to and our membership of that and all the previous incarnations of the "EU"-Dictatorship was and is morally illegitimate.
"As desperate it is now, thanks to Blair the Liar."
EUpris: You are certainly right about Blair although you do not go far enough and could not go far enough on this page and get it displayed and if you did would probably end up in jail for telling the truth.
"So what now?"
EUpris: continual trouble until the UK is freed of the "EU"-Dictatorship.
EUprisoner
Gau UK
Occupied Europe.
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Let's take the glove of the challenge...
Let's talk about what Austria (your mother-country, isn't this?) did in Istria and Dalmazia after the fall of “Repubblica di Venezia” btw 1815 and 1918.
The violent, barbaric de-italianization of that historically, geographically, culturally Italian land. Italy never did something worst than it, even during the fascism.
Then during the 2° WW a lot of Austrian SS were murdering hundreds of Italian private citizens.
Then, Austria, during the fifties, funded the bombing and killing of Italians by "SudTiroler fighters for freedom"...
Should we had bombed Wien? Italian Air Forces could have definitevely been able, like we did in 1918. But we didn't.
About the “Provincia Autonoma…”.
I remember you it is the official Italian name of the area.
You should be grateful to the wise and long-term political mindset of the “Repubblica Italiana” and its "Costituzione".
Unless you think the Northern Italy name should be “Padania” and Bergamo, Berghém… and it should be an independent country.
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60. At 3:20pm on 15 Jan 2010, Gheryando wrote:
" ...
Regarding Murdoch ... Who else could pride himself on making a whole country anti-EU? ..."
EUpris: That is just rubbish! It is a recurring claim of "EU"-lovers that the British opponents of the "EU" are the victims of the press. The implication is that they are stupid because they disagree with you. I have come across that sort of thinking in the UK but I have come across it much more with continentals. It is one of the things that make me want not to be in a union with the continentals. You, Gheryando display the characteristics which make me want not to be in a political union with you. I don't mind you living in London. I don't want you thrown out. I don't want you hurt in anyway. I do not want you hurt by the truth but you cannot handle the truth, which is a shame. I am not prepared to stop telling the truth because it hurts you.
I have read the same sort of rubbish from an Austrian source claiming that the Austrians are the victims of the Kronenzeitng. (A newspaper.)
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Also, the "freedom fighters" mainly attacked infrastructures as a way to show their people's plight to the world. Given the timespan we're talking about, human casualties were, at most, accidental.
Anyways, please remind me what we are discussing about?
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I know the Kronenzeitung (Schau in die Krone) but I never read it. Fact is that The Sun is the mostly read in the UK. Thanks for not minding. I don't mind that you don't mind, either.
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Finally, we got the taste of your refined education.
My compliments and that's enough.
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I agree
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The moderators are .....well... If at least they gave a reason as to "what" broke the "house rules". Ah, I remember, I referred to Southern Italians as Mediterraneans, associating to them well known stereotypes (that can also be extended to Greeks, Spaniards etc), while calling Northern Italians Central Europeans.
Anyways, the person who was supposed to read it read it. (and probably complained about it subsequently - but then again, this is exactly what Berlusconi is saying about the Left: They can't win with arguments, so they try to shut you down)
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Now we get to see what the European "UNION" is really all about. Austrians killing Italians from 1815 to 1918. Anyone want to go back to when two European cavemen fought and Ug clubbed Og over the head and dragged away his woman...in 283460831032BC. It will need at least one more war to settle it. Maybe two :-)
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I'm sorry for the detour; what is happening in Haiti. What a disaster.
As I understand one of the troubles affecting help delivery is small airport? We've got 4 huge planes sitting silly in Dominican rep as were denied landing, no space. At that, one of them is a hospital and 3 others were promised as a shuttle bus (big, ministry's of extraordinary situation) for Britain and Sweden, who have loads of things accummulated to deliver, and they had to un-load and fly back, and again and again, to shuttle btw. Instead, they aren't yet un-loaded the first time even, though should have been already around twice. In the whole Dominican republic cars are deficit as all countries' airplanes try to hire them to get to Haiti. 280 km, long for dogs and resque teams, but OK for food more or less. But not OK for flying hospital, where is power source in Haiti how to un-plug all equipment very un-clear. Russian TV says American soldiers expected on Monday very much needed as Haitians are getting how to say, desperate, block roads by which they are supposed to be helped by 10 metre high bodies' piles, in ? revolt? against ? bad fortune.
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WA;
Here's something to get your mind off Haiti for a few moments. Now you can enjoy it with your new computer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNC-aj76zI4
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To democracythreat (30):
About the youth unemployment...
It is mostly problem of either too less education, wrong kind of education or too much education. In my personal opinion why every third graduate is out of work, in case of academic education, is because they have studied soft subjects and not what industries and corporations are actually needing: engineers and science majors.
Actually if we want to deal with the age crisis happening right now is to move into more high tech and highly automated societies and production networks, we have to start cutting soft education and move resources to engineering and hard sciences.
For example I myself with my education in economics and computer science haven't had any problem finding a job and probably never will as more and more of things are either computerized or automated. That is the way of future.
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MarcusAureliusII wrote:
dt;
There you go again;
"A human being cannot steal information. The very idea is abhorrent, and constitutes a ridiculous use of the law as a weapon. In many respects, human beings are defined by the ability to share information. It gives us speech, libraries, literacy and everything that has ever flowed from these."
The next thing you are going to tell me is that there is no such thing as laundering illicitly gotten money. That would not surprise me one bit...coming from a citizen of a country whose main business and success is to facilitate the laundering and hiding of illicitly gotten money."
I'm not a citizen. I'm just visiting, as it were. I try not to be a citizen of anywhere, if I can help it. But if I was to fly a flag and call it glory, it would be a Swiss flag.
Now you know the old maxim pecunia non olet, and you also know that the difference between a legitimate regime and a pack of robber barons is military power. If the robber barons have enough, they are a legitimate regime.
However, legally speaking, of course there is such a thing as laundering illicitly obtained money. When you reside within a jurisdiction you need to respect those laws, nicht whar? The state has the right to make laws to protect the babies from being eaten by the bad guys. And so the whole idea of law is that it needs to be respected.
Thus, we need to respect Stalin's soviet laws that made folks criminals because they transgressed his financial laws. And jut so, we need to respect the laws of the USA. Regimes make law to stop babies being eaten by bad folks, and I respect that. I really do.
But I also respect the concept of sovereignty. It is part of the whole law thing, Marcus. Without sovereignty, there can be no law.
Think about it. If the regime in charge of the USA (PBUH) is not sovereign to make law within the borders of the USA, how can law be understood and followed by the good folks there? How can you catch the bad guys, if every regime on god's good earth is making a variety of laws for the USA? Why, a baby eater might call upon a defense only recognized in a foreign land, and there would be no certainty at all to the business. Folks would be uop and going around eating babies left right and centre, and pretty soon there would be no babies left, and humanity would make a small fizzling sound, like a sparkler being dunked into a bucket of ice cream. It would be the end of the party.
So we need sovereignty if we want law, Marcus. Now I know this is almighty hard for an American to understand, because, after all, why would god bother making America perfect if other, lessor nations were not expected to follow the example set from the house on the hill? It is dang confusing, but even so, god did went and saw fit to restrict the glory and perfection of the USA within geographical borders. So he did, you can check it out.
I don't know why he went and did that. Seems a little perverse to me, like the time he turned the egyptians rivers to blood and sent the locusts into the crops. A clear violation of the Geneva rules, that was, but in any case I don't pretend to understand the big man. Not being American, he doesn't answer my calls.
But regardless, that is what he went and did. He made America perfect, and then gave it geographical borders. Hell of a thing.
And so, PBUH, we have this idea called sovereignty, which has been confusing the godly folk of your nation for just about as long as folks have been selling cannons to the gubment on the hill.
Now sovereignty means that as long as you follow the laws of your sovereign, you aint done nuthin for which you can be punished. That is sovereignty and the rule of law in action. Now in Switzerland, the sovereign is the people, and they say a person can have privacy from the state. So a lot of people who object to the Stalins of this world come here to get some of that.
But they do it here, and they are not breaking the law here. Yes, Stalin and his sort would object to that, and in fact he did. But folks like him don't understand sovereignty, you see. They see themselves as sent by god to tell everybody on earth how to live and when to do what. They see themselves as SAVIOURS for the SINNERS.
It is a heck of a trip for them, and I'm told they enjoy the feeling of throwing a jesus christ pose just about more than anything.
But nevertheless, sovereignty restricts even the most endearing saviour from spreading god's word too far, too fast. Stalin, Hitler, pol pot, Churchill and a whole host of Saviours from your nation have sadly fallen short of saving the complete range of humanity from itself, and though I cannot submit that I understand the wider strategy, that seems to be how god wants things ordered on his good earth. As yet, not all the babies have been eaten by the folks in the black hats, so I expect there is some reason to the matter what I don't have the smarts to comprehend just at the present time.
So when you throw around your accusations of "illicit" money laundering, just remember that god made the evil parts of the world so as we can see how glorious and perfect America really is.
It's all part of the grand plan, Marcus, and I ask you to respect that.
Switzerland is Switzerland so American can be america. If you go messing with the formula, pretty soon folks wont know what to say to the baby eaters in their neck of the woods, on account of all the confusing misunderstandings brought about by god playing favourites with certain folks, and ignoring other folks.
So if I were you, I would stay out of it. I figure god made the Swiss evil for a reason, and in my experience the big man is best left to do his business in private. Once you start messing with the program, there is no telling what might happen.
After all, hasn't it occurred to you that if everywhere becomes as glorious as the USA, then who in tarnation are you going to hate? And if you have nobody to hate, how are you ever going to know who ate the babies?
Once you lose sight of that, Marcus, then it is but a few short moments before the bad men WIN and all the babies is eaten up and gone.
And who is going to explain THAT to mother mary, Marcus?
You need to think this issue through, partner.
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dt;
"I try not to be a citizen of anywhere, if I can help it."
Doesn't that get a little inconvenient when they want to see your passport on the train or at the boarding gate in the airport?
"I figure god made the Swiss evil for a reason"
Yes and he made Swiss cheese with lots of big holes in it so the rats would have a convenient place to hide on judgement day. But it won't do them any good, God loves his ham sandwiches with melted Swiss all over it. He's got his own panini maker that plugs into a gazillion watt power supply, more than enough to melt a hunk of cheese frozen under an Alp for 10,000 years. Run into the roundhouse dt, he can't corner you there.
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Democracy Threat (30): Italy doesn't have much of a dole system & certainly not for the younger generation who cannot find permanent jobs if they can find jobs at all.
'Berlusconi will die soon.' No he won't. His personal physician maintains he will live to 120 so we may look forward to a long reign of Silvius Maximus Primus I. His 'parliament' is now doing its best to crank out several versions of what can only be called 'ad personam' legislation to keep him out of the courts.
Much has been said about Berlusconi & his TV empire & his influence on Italian television. There is a fascinating documentary made by Lorella Zanardo on Italian women and tv in Italy. It runs 25 minutes & can be seen at [Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]. I highly recommend it to those who would laud Berlusconi. As for being a self-made man, that too is open to question.
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Marcus, regarding what I "know" about intellectual property law and the modern theory of how things work in the world, I thought you might find the following article interesting.
There is some stuff in there about the evil Swiss, too, so I figure you'll like it.
Jukka, you'll like it also.
http://www.monbiot.com/archives/2002/03/12/patent-nonsense/
Jukka, I see what you are saying about science majors being more in demand than sociology majors, and I wouldn't disagree with the basic idea that we are all better off with a mechanized world.
However, i am reluctant to simply assume that the laws of our world are suited to a mechanized economy.
Economics only takes you so far in understanding how human beings behave, and sooner or later economics must become subordinate to political policy. And just so, sooner or later political policy is subordinate to humanism.
For example, Alexander Bell, the inventor of the telephone, was one of the first folks to publish political policy on eugenics. I mention him because he was such a curious case. He married a deaf woman, and they loved each other for the term of their lives. He spent most of his life helping deaf and blind children.
And yet that man promoted eugenics theory (the humanism) which became eugenics policy (the politics). And that eugenics policy, which included the forced sterilization of folks deemed "imperfectly formed", eventually became law.
And after it became law in half of the states of the USA, the NAZI party in germany copied the eugenics laws of California and applied an even greater dose of economic rationalism.
Cripples and the infirm were deemed to be an economic blemish upon the state and the volk, and their liquidation was seen as efficient and good for all. And just as negros were deemed imperfect human beings in the USA, and forcibly sterilized in their thousands, so to were perfectly normal human beings in the third reich deemed imperfect and then eradicated in search of the perfect state of grace.
So, you know, I am curious about whether it is wise to promote economic reasoning without first looking at the policy, and further into the humanism which underpins the policy.
In this case, the policy is that political parties can borrow in the name of the people, and then transfer that debt onto the next generation. Your economic solution is for every young person to become a technical worker to service machines, but what is the underlying humanism behind the policy which has created the debt young people must work to repay?
I put it to you that searching for economic solutions to the farming of human beings by other human beings ignores the fundamental problem we face.
Representation, like the despotic forms of dictatorship and oligarchy from whence it comes, allows human beings to farm other human beings for a profit. the underlying humanism is that it is OK for human beings to farm other human beings. Parties can borrow against the incomes of unborn children, and banks can use taxpayers money to lend to taxpayers and then charge interest for the service.
Now it may be that man is a farmer by nature, and that hoping for a change is hoping for things which cannot be, but we all face certain problems if we do not at least try to resolve the current patterns of behaviour which have guided our species towards suffocation in its own toilet mess.
I prefer to think human beings ought not be farmed, and that the law and political policy of a community must respect the rights of people to be free, and to have full sovereignty over the law which rules them. that means voting on laws, and not for representatives who are hand picked by party oligarchs. It means direct democracy, not sham democracy.
The reason I say "I prefer" this approach is because it is one of those things I chose to believe even if it isn't true. I concede, there is a strong argument to be made that man farms man because man deserves no better from himself.
But I refuse to believe that, because it never pays to take a bet on a hiding to nothing.
And when i look at the state of the natural world, and the festering wounds caused by overpopulation, and the endless war, poverty and hatred brought on by the callous farming of human beings, I don't see any possible benefit to believing that folks cannot improve their policy by improving the quality of their humanism.
And until that is done, the economics seem largely irrelevant, like a croupier at a casino on a sinking passenger ship counting the chips as the water rushes in and the last lifeboats are taking to the water.
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MarcusAureliusII wrote:
dt;
"I try not to be a citizen of anywhere, if I can help it."
Doesn't that get a little inconvenient when they want to see your passport on the train or at the boarding gate in the airport?"
Yeah, it does. But I got me some passports, you understand. I can pick and choose in that respect, but i can;t say i have lived in any of the states I swear i belong to for a very long time.
Isn't it interesting, the way gubment tries to enforce the myth of its control, and the myth of national identity?
Really, i mean that. It's fascinating. I sometimes wonder what i would do, if it were my task to create a nation. (hang back on those psyche doctors just for a minute: I didn't say I was working to any plan here)
I guess the first thing I would do, after purging the new state of the symbols of the old regime, would be to take control of the ports and roads that gave access to foreign states. I would put men with guns on those access points, and I would force anyone crossing to swear fealty to the deity of my choice. If they refused to wear my mark, I guess I would disappear those suckers into jail, use the law to brand them "criminal".
Essentially, I would make sure my goons were enforcing the myth of the nation state upon those who are aware that the nation state is but a fictional claim of those with the most firepower in a given geographical location.
It worked for monotheistic religions, when they were the glue used to bond together the waring tribes of pre-christian europe. Same deal seems to work for nationalism.
Even Chelsea football club is in on the act! If you have a season pass, your access to restrcited areas is granted. Otherwise, you're just a guest worker. I mean, guest watcher.
I was amused to note that for last years champions league final in Moscow, secular respect for the tribes of football was granted by the tribes of nations.
Just as secular Russia allows all religious clubs to pass unhindered, so the Russians made special rules for Chelsea fans at the airport. For a day, the normal restrictions were lifted and tribe of Chelsea were allowed to worship their idols without interference from the armed nationalists.
Like different species of shark swimming unmolested in the same tank, the mental chains that enslave common folk, the fictional tribes to which they belong, all seem to stay out of each others way if they are not in direct competition at the time.
I guess there is plenty of money to go around for everyone.
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To democracythreat (83):
"Essentially, I would make sure my goons were enforcing the myth of the nation state upon those who are aware that the nation state is but a fictional claim of those with the most firepower in a given geographical location."
Your view of the nation state is disrupted by your own nation-less status. Furthermore I would continue and make an argument that you being nation-less is because A) you being from Britain you don't have a clear nationality, British is quite recent made up unifier of the country, while English as an nationality has been forsaken altogether for being British; B) you are a native English speaker from UK, there are many ex-colonies to whose culture you can identify yourself. You think you are nation-less, you think you are a global citizen, but... are you really?
The fact of the matter is that for example MarcusAureliusII is as American as anybody can be, no offense to other Americans. While he speaks the same language, while he shares lots of history and culture with you, his nationality is American. While you could move to America, get an citizenship, and drink Budweiser, you still wouldn't be American, at least not on assimilating the idea of America whole heartedly.
In my own opinion nations and nations states are true creations, nations states aren't anywhere made up fiction. Maybe you would understand this if you would come from a small country in the edge of the world, talking a language that nobody else speaks, having your own unique customs and way of life, the nation state comes automatically in this context.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
aaand who deserves the credit
and who deserves the blame
Nicolay Ivanovich Mavrelius is his name!
(I am neverr forrget the day when my feerst post was published)
:o)))))
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Actually, now I see why G Bush had so many problems after Katrina (yuk..Im defending Bush)
Logistics can be difficult in disasters. Hmmmm.
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Jukka, I am afraid you are too practical (treasure) (seriously) to understand democracythreat. I think the definition that I see :o) attracted your attention as well (as mine) is good. As minimum.
"the most firepower in a given geographical location" :o). Good.
and those, sharks :o) swimming side by side, slowly gliding , passing one stream of them, one way, the other, nearly touching the sides :o) in another direction, in the aquarium :o)... green water, slippery? sneaky? curves, the sides... you can just imagine the looks! one sharkie gives to another, in proceeding by :o))))) a side of the shark eye :o))) so to say assumed "I don't see you" kind of glance :o))))
Good metaphor.
(in fact, democracythreat :o))) I think just in case they were received at different Moscow airports :o)))) But they did glide by, one another, in bus aquariums, on the way to the stadium.... how symbolical :o)))) and both felt they are in the third aquarium, Moscow :o)))) expecting third type sharks! any minute :o))))
(MA this reminds me I bought another carp tonight.)
:o))))))
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"to glow always
to glow - everywhere
to the last days' bottom!
To glow - and no other intention!
That's slogan of mine, and Sun."
:o))))) Mayakovsky
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I wonder if the contributors on this page have forgotten that it is Italy and the Italians who are being discussed. The inheritors of the Roman Empire and surely even today among the most talented people in the world. What would Europe and indeed the rest of the world be like without Italy? No popes and Vatican city, no Rennaissance, no Michaelangelo, sculptors and painters unsurpassed by any other nation in the world. It gave its laws to most European nations and others where Europeans settled and indeed Latin was the universal language of the known world and the scientific language where for instance people like Linnaeus and Newton wrote in Latin and indeed anyone who wanted to be taken seriously in the scientific world wrote in that tongue until quite recently and no doubt it will survive English as a universal language when America will be adopting Spanish quite soon.
Of course Italy has had its ups and downs over the centuries but it has always survived and reinvented itself with elan and style unsurpassed by anyone else. Post second world war it has probably had as many governments as years (about sixty in all?) but is today again the fourth most prosperous nation in the EU. Furthermore its architecture has never been surpassed in any part of the world and is today the standard for any beautiful building style. Is there anything more exquisite than say the Amalfi coast or the beautiful hill towns in the centre of the country anywhere else in the world? All you Italian contributers to this blog should call yourself blessed and lucky. I personally can't last out a year without visiting that gorgeous land and letting its beauty reinvogorate me.
Viva Italia and even Burlusconi can't ruin it and besides he surely adds to the gaiety of nations.
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David, we broke through. The hospital plane is there, un-rolling itself. The three other are though still hell knows where, but the hospital, for it the ? Organisation Commitee? Resque HQ something? Found the place.
Bit it's just 1 hospital, and overall it seems that they are in far more needs of doctors than of anything eatable. But I checked TASS (never did in the past 20 yrs :o)))) was not sure they exist any more:o)))) they do! and the most detailed stuff of Russian coverage still there! :o))))
anyway TASS lists hospital units by organisation already there, and Russian is not the only one at all, but still it's still counted in dozens of doctors, while the need is in hundreds of them. Red Cross docs from Geneva is in flight as well, will be more.
We were just packing too long, it seems to me, and started with food and things, like all countries did, while it strongly seems to me all countries, given their unusual landing how to say, capabilities, should have concentrated on medical help.
France made it there, and the USA somehow they did land? and even tiny Iceland did, they are there one of the first, somehow they all landed?.We should have been packing quicker, and forecasted the deficit of the ? the trouble to land.
Anyway it seems that in case of disasters the most important thing is to hold first 6 days without help - and then there will be aplenty :o(
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Where is that Haiti, at all? Caribbean where the Grand Cayman is?
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Um, I think its Cuba, Puerto Rico, then The island Hispianola
which has Haiti on the west and the Dominican Republic on the east side of that island...
its an up and down world in that area with Haiti historically poor and often occupied by USA troops (to no avail or advantage--you know, ...us, .:)
LBJ (60's) and Clinton did occupy that island in my lifetime.
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And to an above commenter I. myself would love to associate my nation with Italy.
My parents have seen Italy on tour and were much more impressed w/Italy than w/France.
I myself like Britain and France and was lucky to go to Paris and London.
I remember in high school, 2 guys said why France? Why not buy a car and I was basically speechless at that.....but to see Italy..wow
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David, I've been to Italy, yes, wonderful, only I was silly and went in July. In the result I only quickly dashed from fountain in Rome to fountain, measuring the distance :o)))) sitting on one fountain ? border - to the next one. and collecting forces for the next ? leg? dash. :o))))
Somehow I still managed to see the sights, first walked where all decent tourists walk, then somehow don't remember how got acquianted with a nice Italian lady, who took matters in her hands finally, and showed me Rome from within, or, rather, sent her various family members to bring me here and there. Don't remember any thing! that is, no names of places! only stories associated with places. places that I saw after dark :o))) I very much liked. some garden? on top of a hill? with a view to the river below. high bushes. and some door, of particular importance ? a very romantic place.
I wish I went in winter, to be more in my mind :o) when temperatures are more human. Fondly remember the marble checkered floor in their house! one of the best places to be! cold! :o)))) we kept correspondence for several years later, but then it all died out, as it happens.
A very nice and a very decisive Italian lady, who basically adopted me on the street I think, by one of the million fountains. Then I also went in 2 different directions, no, three. One to the South to bathe in Lido a bit, one to the North ? may be? to see Ferenze, and one very much North (I think) , by train (train - aaah. oh oj. nevermind) to see Venice. Venice - a good, proper, watery place! Of which I remebered most of all. :o))) still have at home 10 thousand reproductions of the girl in the shell :o) from Ferenze, and cute multi-coloured small bottles and all from Venice :o)))), in weaves, absolutely charming things.
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WA;
You keep eating that carp from the radioactive pond near that nuclear power plant and you will glow all the time.
"and the USA somehow they did land?"
Have no fear, Uncle Sam is here. The US took over command of the airport and broke the log jam. I think the earthquake toppled the control tower. Americans brought equipment to substitute for it. Some Hatians were angry because they are very fiercely independent and don't like the idea of outsiders running things there but the Hatian government was happy for it.
C131s were landing yesterday. There's an aircraft carrier which should be there by now or very soon. The US will have 10,000 troops on the island by Monday. Most important things first, food, water, medical supplies, temporary shelters, then searching for survivors burried in the rubble, burying dead bodies to prevent disease and clearing roads of debris. The American government has already pledged 100 milion probably with lots more to come. There will also likely be many tens or hundreds of milions in private donations from the US. Aid is being sent from all over the world. The problem is to keep them alive for the first few days, long enough for the aid to get into distribution. Many need medical attention and still haven't gotten it. The government has all but collapsed. Also 1000 of the worst criminals escaped from prison, one more thing to worry about.
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91. At 00:43am on 16 Jan 2010, margaret howard wrote:
"I wonder if the contributors on this page have forgotten that it is Italy and the Italians who are being discussed. The inheritors of the Roman Empire and surely even today among the most talented people in the world. What would Europe and indeed the rest of the world be like without Italy? No popes and Vatican city, no Rennaissance, no Michaelangelo, sculptors and painters unsurpassed by any other nation in the world"
EUpris: I agree with most of that. You forgot the food and the music and the architecture and the flair for clothes. Oh! And the literature and the films. All reasons to respect Italy and to learn Italian. It is still not acceptable to be in a political union with the Italians.
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70. At 4:45pm on 15 Jan 2010, Gheryando wrote:
"I know the Kronenzeitung (Schau in die Krone) but I never read it. Fact is that The Sun is the mostly read in the UK. Thanks for not minding. I don't mind that you don't mind, either."
EUpris: Bigger boobs in the Kronenzeitung, or at least the last time I looked.
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97. At 02:44am on 16 Jan 2010, MarcusAureliusII wrote: etc
EUpris: Americans are very generous people. No sarcasm! No point scoring, they genuinely are.
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MA great and wonderful, and I am sure things will go at full swing shortly.
Still, something is missing in the int'l response model to the disasters, if it takes 72 hrs for the help to start getting noticed locally, how to say. Earthquake was Tue and only since Friday afternoon there are 280 resquers searching the rubble, from the whole world over combined, all organisations and all countries, all who made it so far.
Just 280 - and 3 days later.
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What were we supposed to be talking about Molly? Oh yeah, Italy. Yes I think Italy has sent aid to Haiti too. And I'll bet that includes some of the best pasta fagiole this side of Milano. Nope those Hatians won't starve, not when Guiseppe is around to serve them. Mama mia thatsa fine pasta. And as we say here, Ronzoni sono buoni, Ronzoni is so good. Or as Lidia Matticchio Bastianich always says; tutti a tavola, mangiare! mangiare! Salute'!
It is a truly sobering and frightening thought that in 30 years, Giada De Laurentiis will look almost exactly like Lidia Bastianich does today. Especially if she eats what she cooks.
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WA;
"Still, something is missing in the int'l response model to the disasters, if it takes 72 hrs for the help to start getting noticed locally"
Too bad we couldn't solve it with an ICBM or it would have taken only 10 minutes, about the limit of most Americans' attention span. That's how we planned to solve the problem of the USSR. Now with no USSR around what are we supposed to do with all of those bombs and missiles? Hmmm, it would put the whole thing behind us but....is something as small as one little earthquake really worth it? :-)
EUpris;
"Americans are very generous people."
It's one of our fatal weaknesses. On the slightest pretext, Uncle Sam would give you the shirt right off my back. The US is the only country I know of that gives charity to its enemies when they are in trouble. No joke either. Food to North Korea when they were starving, all kinds of aid to Iran when they had the earthquake in Qom. Nothing asked in return for it...and nothing received. Is that anyway to win a war, I ask you? Would Russia have done the same with its enemies? Would Russia have sent food to Nazi Germany when it was hungry? Would the Germans have been desperate enough to eat it if they had?
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#91. margaret howard
It was also the Italians that created banks (banco) and the core of the European musical language is Italian. But did you know that the Englishmen forced Händel (Handel as they say in the UK) to give up writing Italian operas?
Beautiful country, friendly human beings, but I am afraid you have to be an Italian to accept the social system. On the other hand, what should we men do in the summer if we didn’t have Italian clothes?
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Dear MA. :o)
on great American help to "enemies". aha.
"Russia sent to Haiti four airplanes with doctors and supplies.
And America - two air carrier ships.
Well? Also - help, in a way!"
:o)))))))
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And if I am not mistaken, the British collected 2 million in 2 days, ordinary people, by themselves. And Red Cross's initiative - 8 million.
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Absolutely agree with margaret howard, and the following additional compliments to the country by other bloggers,and of course from the Russian side we first think "Fine arts, architecture" as nowhere I think beyond home Italians built and decorated more than in Russia.
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WA;
"of course from the Russian side we first think "Fine arts, architecture""
And we in America first think "pizza, the Mafia, The Godfather, Tony Soprano, spaghetti, cheap Chianti, Dean Martin, Sophia Loren, Gina Lollabrigada (us old guys who were around long enough to remember), sub sandwiches, and Lamborghinis."
I'm fairly sure pizza is America's number one favorite food. Once several years ago, a friend asked me if I knew the answer to the trivia question "how many acres of pizza do Americans eat on average every day????" "This I know from nothing. What I'm going to do? I think of great Lobachevsky and I get idea, ha ha." Fast as lightning I calculated in my mind "algabraic and analytic topology of locally Euclidian metrization of infinitely differentiable Riemmanian manifolds." My answer...100 acres. The correct answer according to him was....90 acres. He told me I got it wrong. That's life. Che' sera sera.
From Answers.com;
The 2000 census estimated about 16 million Americans (or 6 percent of the total U.S. population) are of Italian ancestry.
http://www.answers.com/topic/italian-american
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everybody when you have a min, dial in your tube
uno uno uno momento
or simply - uno momento (one moment) and where you see a chap with long face in old dark clothes and hair standing up on head :o), the man who posted the video is "Greshnikoff" I think - that's one of the most favourite Russian movies about Italy, the song that whole country knows, in improvised Italian :o), that's about count Caliostro adventures in Russia. There isn't a single person in this country who wouldn't reply to "uno momento" with a follow-up song. :o))))
The scene is Caliostro (and friends) is charming a local girl :o)
We all absolutely love them.
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Eupris, the best boobs are on Bild.
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"What were we supposed to be talking about Molly? Oh yeah, Italy. Yes I think Italy has sent aid to Haiti too. And I'll bet that includes some of the best pasta fagiole this side of Milano."
Italy sent a a C-130 with a field hospital and rescue personnel.
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110. At 3:08pm on 16 Jan 2010, Gheryando wrote:
"Eupris, the best boobs are on Bild."
EUpris: I'll have to take your word for it. I don't go looking for that sort of thing. It doesn't do me any good. I was looking on the Kronenzeitung site because it is anti-Lisbon. I believe the owner actually wants an "EU", just not this "EU".
My point was really that it does have some similarity with some of the Murdoch papers.
The tone of a article I read on the "EU" by the owner or proprietor or whatever was very reasonable.
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104. At 06:29am on 16 Jan 2010, Mathiasen wrote:
" ...On the other hand, what should we men do in the summer if we didn’t have Italian clothes?"
EUpris: Do what the Italians do. Wear English clothes. My local Marks and Spencer had clothes with "Italian" written all over the place. I went to a clothes department in a store in Palermo. There was stuff with "English" written on it.
I went to a clothes department store in Germany (Moers?) It was damn good. I am occasionally in Berlin. Can you recommend me a clothing store in Berlin?
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"My point was really that it does have some similarity with some of the Murdoch papers."
Yes. I agree. So does the Bild. They are tabloids. "Educating" the masses.
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Speaking about educating the masses, here's Father Guido Sarducci's solution to the high cost of college and the time and effort it usually takes to get a university diploma;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kO8x8eoU3L4
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#113. EUprisoner209456731
Well, I must saythat I did not unexpect to answer questions about clothing...
In order not to get into a limitless number of variations and questions I will have to limit my statements to a couple of standard categories of mens clothing.
Within this: The Italians are producing some very light clothes (suits), which are very practical in the hot summer. If you had asked me about autumn-winther, I would have said British clothes.
You can buy Italian (personality oriented) and British (class oriented) clothes in Berlin, also in special stores. In the latter case: Bring some money - Euro, of course, which must be something of an overcoming to you! ;-) However, you will benefit from the wonderful possibility of comparing prices within one currency.
If you go to KDW, Kaufhaus des Westen, you will find both categories there, and of course quite a few other things. Same labels in many cases also in Galeria on Alexanderplatz.
Search via the website of Berlin or the German yellow book. There are quite a few things to choose between.
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A great store is Hirmer in Munich. Biggest men's store in the world.
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#116. EUprisoner209456731
Oh sorry, I made an error with the word processor. It should have read:
"...I did not expect .."
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You have to live in Italy to understand the complexities of Italian Politics . For a start there are something like sixteen parties represented in parliament , with proportional representation . In Italian politics it is every man for himself ; political parties have little central objective focus . People are dyhard Communists because their father or grandfather were partisans . Upper middle class people vote left of centre because they think it humanitarian and christian ; having no knowledge or understanding of Italian politics . Judges and prosecutors , like university lecturers and teachers are left wing socialists . Judges attain office by examination ; rather than a long career as a high court lawyer . There is much political bias among judges ; effectively one is guilty in Italy until proven innocent .
Italy is virtually an ungovernable country without a very strong leader ; even so it is like swimming against a strong current . Career politicians can forget it ; politics is not for the academic in Italy . Who better than an astute businessman to run a country . You do not build a business empire without taking a few Knocks . In my opinion Italy needs another Mussolini to dominate and overide its devisive factors . I do not advocate the forces of fascism ; but Mussolini governed Italy well until about 1935 .
Today Berlusconi is as near as you can get to another Mussolini .
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Huaimek makes some interesting and valid points
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To Huaimek (119):
I'm not an Italian, I don't know Italy or its culture or its way of life very well, but my gut instinct says that things aren't necessarily as you say they are. Mostly I object to a) defining Italy being an ungovernable country and b) it needing a strong leader to dominate the country.
For example I don't understand how all judges and university lecturers and teachers can be left wing socialists...
In theory in an egalitarian society university students come up smoothly following a Gauss distribution from all parts and social classes. Now in practice even in Nordic countries the gauss distribution is somewhat skewed so that more students come from middle and upper income earning families, which are usually quite more conservative and liberal that leftist, causes most students being non-leftist. As the next generation of university lecturers and professors are taken from student population, it should follow that the political leaning of lecturers and professors in time would end up on the staff being more leaning to conservative and liberal values.
I should also point out that for example in Finland too university graduates in law can choose to go into practicing in a court where after a year they can attain the rank of vice judge and become full time judges. This resembles quite a lot the examination system that Italy has, still, this hasn't caused the judiciary to become leaning to any direction.
Actually these two points are also from time to time mentioned by Americans concerning their own country: that there are activist judges and that universities are strongholds of liberals and leftists.
Of course, different country, different culture, things can be different but I have hard time to buy it that they are so different than in some other European countries or that they for ever will be so different, that there is nothing to do to fix the situation and society.
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Addition to my own comment (121):
When people are studying they may become left leaning if they aren't already. However as soon as students leave the university, get their first job, start to make some serious money by their own work and effort, people tend to become more centrists and conservative. When you make money and pay up sizable taxes to keep the society going, you become some inhospitable to elements in society that aren't contributing their share back to the society or are wasting taxpayers money.
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"In theory in an egalitarian society university students come up smoothly following a Gauss distribution from all parts and social classes. Now in practice even in Nordic countries the gauss distribution is somewhat skewed so that more students come from middle and upper income earning families, which are usually quite more conservative and liberal that leftist, causes most students being non-leftist. As the next generation of university lecturers and professors are taken from student population, it should follow that the political leaning of lecturers and professors in time would end up on the staff being more leaning to conservative and liberal values."
This is true. However, in countries like Italy, where students don't pay tuition and will do as much as they can do remain students, meritocratic order is bound to collapse and left-wing, manu-chao listening, pot-smoking and politically illiterate ticks remain.
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Did you see?
UKIP wants to ban the Burka in Britain
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8464124.stm
What's your take on it?
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To Gheryando (123):
There is no tuition fees in Finland or other Nordic countries. The state even pays student benefits, approx 420e in cash every month that pays up dormitory, food and some clothing, the food in student restaurants is subsidized by the state, all travel tickets are -50%, etc.. and students can retain their benefits even if they do some work besides studying. This has lead into a situation where generational economic mobility is quite high relative to other developed countries, in essence income level of parents has less impact to child's future level of income.
I would say that having a tuition free education is a one step closer on having a truly meritocratic society. And at least in here the allure of money that you get after graduating and getting a job tempts most of the students to working life even before graduation. I loved university, but I love money too that the working life gives.
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Jukka Rohila wrote:
Addition to my own comment (121):
"When people are studying they may become left leaning if they aren't already. However as soon as students leave the university, get their first job, start to make some serious money by their own work and effort, people tend to become more centrists and conservative. When you make money and pay up sizable taxes to keep the society going, you become some inhospitable to elements in society that aren't contributing their share back to the society or are wasting taxpayers money."
Jukka, you have just explained why "income tax" is called income tax and not "worker rental tax".
After all, employees do not pay income tax. Their employer does. The employer collects the tax based on the nominal wage, and sends it to the government. The worker never sees it, and never actually goes through the fictional process of "paying it".
But if we call it income tax, and tell the worker they are paying it.... then as you observe, the worker feels they are contributing to "keep the society going". If it was called a payroll tax that the employer needed to pay, the worker might feel like they simply have no part to play in society, beyond working for a wage.
Now the reason this point seems evident to me is because when I calculate the relative "cost of doing business" for a company in different countries, payroll tax is something the employer needs to think about, but not the workers.
If a company needs to hire ten people, and the payroll tax is 50% of wages, then the company owner knows that they will need to pay the government the same as they pay their workers. If the payroll tax is 15%, the cost is much, much less.
Given that the worker takes home about the same in both cases (because they move according to what they take home and will follow the company overseas), the payroll tax is purely a tax upon the employer.
But you isolate precisely why it is called an income tax on the worker. The worker need to feel they have a stake in the society. It keeps them interested in the political process. If the workers thought that the economy of the political process was only about party members and corporate entities cutting deals, they might look differently at the practical method of the political process in representative governments.
Einstein said he found the hardest thing to understand was "income tax", and I submit that he was being deadly serious. And political, at the same time. It is called "income tax", but that is not what it is. It is a payroll tax, pure and simple.
And remember, Einstein worked in Bern for a while, so he understood the difference between a direct democracy and representation.
Look at what being told the income tax is yours has done to you, Jukka. You make the comment:
"elements in society that aren't contributing their share back to the society or are wasting taxpayers money"
But you are not talking about politicians!! You are talking about people who can't get jobs.
You are pointing you finger at 40% of young people in spain, at one quarter of young people in Europe, and telling them that THEY are wasting taxpayers money.
Have you considered how utterly, utterly absurd that position is?
Young people are not in a position to waste anything. You hold them accountable for the state of play, and give the politicians a walk.
You are the economist who will replace one thousand workers in a car plant with robots, and turn them out onto the streets with nothing. Then you will stand on your soapbox and point the finger at them, and say "You people are wasting money that belongs to REAL citizens."
But those car workers were told by people like you to take the jobs and train for those jobs only a few years back.
"Income tax" is a fabulous, ingenious trick. It tells the slave he is the master, but doesn't unchain him, nor spare him from the whip.
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#121 and #122
In one aspect I agree with Jukka: It can be difficult to explain the formation of political sympathies by academics. It will only be more difficult if an explanation is supposed to cover a large number of quite different countries.
Very cautiously said however, a general picture is that the humanities produce left wing voters (if it is not the other way round.) Social sciences often the same, however not among lawyers and economists. Science of nature is divided too. Chemists seem to have very little social insight or they are born conservative, biologists the opposite. And yes, chemists are often occupied in the chemical industry, which to say the least, constitutes a problem that not least biologists often unveil.
The voters research I have seen reveals one remarkable thing about academics: They take stronger ideological position than other voters, and therefore relatively more academics vote on parties with a visible ideological profile, either to the right or the left.
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Jukka - I guess in a small society like Finland, where natives have for thousands of years seen the need for close cooperation or face death by starvation or freezing, such a system works. The harsher the living conditions, the less a society can afford to have people not contribute.
In Italy, it doesn't work. I also disagree with "free" education. There should be selective free education for those who truly cannot afford it. For everyone else, the costs should be based upon their income. E.g. If tuition is 5000 Euros a year, families earning more than 50,000 should pay 100%, families that earn 30,000 should pay 2/3 etc. They should also be able to draw on student loans with (almost) zero interest, repayable in rates once they have found a job after graduating and are able to do so.
This would encourage real meritocracy as there is an actual incentive to study as efficiently and properly as possible and get out in the real world
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To Gheryando (128):
The problem with a tuition fee system that you paint is that there is no connection between my family having the money and it giving it to me to pay up for my education.
Actually a that kind of system based on the notation of family as an socio-economical unit will cause intergenerational friction and divisions inside the family, it will lead to situations where children have to obey their parents will against their own better judgment, it will also cause drop-out situation where going against your parents wishes will cost you education. Now even if the state would give cheap student loans, tuition fees themselves still would raise an obstacle for students coming from lower income background: taking lets say 30000e loan to study is a risk, but the more lower income background you are from, the bigger that risk seems.
Then there is the thing that the whole tuition fee system will create over-head and in the end universities will start to spend more money on administration of the whole system than doing their core task: giving education, researching and developing.
In my mind it is a better idea to have no tuition fees. It will allow all people from different background to try studying risk free, thus it will lead into more increased competition in entrance examinations, thus having universities receive better suited material to whom give education, etc.. And when education resources and guided together with industries and long term planning, open positions and good pays in corporate world will lure students to graduate quickly and move to working life.
Lets not forget that places that have tuition fee systems are usually those places which have lower generational income mobility, i.e. USA and Britain are notorious for this: if you are born poor, the likely hood of you staying poor is much higher than if you were born in France or Germany or let alone to some Nordic country.
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Jukks I absolutely agree FOC education is everything. (I am watching Memoirs of a Geisha)
:o)))))))
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So that fans don't drop. That is, the fans don't drop and then the fans - drop.
And two hair pins! one with cascading bombons down. critical success factors
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"Actually a that kind of system based on the notation of family as an socio-economical unit will cause intergenerational friction and divisions inside the family, it will lead to situations where children have to obey their parents will against their own better judgment, it will also cause drop-out situation where going against your parents wishes will cost you education. Now even if the state would give cheap student loans, tuition fees themselves still would raise an obstacle for students coming from lower income background: taking lets say 30000e loan to study is a risk, but the more lower income background you are from, the bigger that risk seems."
Very good point. I still think there should be some sort of financial incentive to "study fast".
Another option could be closer industry cooperation with universities and thus having the privat sector finance universities. This will, however, deprive the state of its role as guarantor of "free" education.
Why are the best universities mainly in the USA? Because they get money from students as well as industries.
Also, your notion that poor stays poor in US and UK doesn't seem to fit their "meritocratic" anglo-saxon philosophy? I'd be curious to see a source.
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To Gheryando (132):
Economic Mobility: Is the American Dream Alive and Well?
http://www.economicmobility.org/reports_and_research/
The thing with the USA is that Americans think that their country is a place where a poor man can via his own work and talent become a rich person. That is the image on how they see themselves. Now while it is actually true that in the USA it is relatively easier to become rich via own work than in most other places, attaining the American dream is actually more and more an exception to a rule than reality. In reality if you are born poor what you face up is an incredible uphill battle in America: you receive less quality health care (infant mortality is way much higher in USA than in other developed countries), you receive less quality education (different schools in different areas have different amounts of money), etc.. compare this to people who can afford private health care, private education, study positions via connections etc... The system is skewed much in favor of rich people.
Now going back to universities. While it is true that most of the best universities are in the USA, that is largely a factor of many causes: A) in the USA best universities, from which many are private, gather most money, but the rest of the education system largely lacks of money; B) USA imports lots of educated people around the world including best researchers; and C) as English language is the new lingua-France we tend to see and know of the results that are published in English, thus universities that are non-English, that publish in other languages than English, tend not to be as well known.
Also, having public state universities with mainly state funding doesn't restrict the possibility of not working with industries and corporations. There is lots of co-operation: 1) ministry of education with assistance of other ministries define the yearly intake of students to different fields of study, i.e. in the end of 90s thanks to Nokia and dot.com boom intake of electrical engineering and computer science students were more than doubled in less than a decade; 2) corporations can fund research, either by taking part on research projects, or by donating funds to set up particular chair of study; 3) corporations hire students to do their master's thesis from a particular subject that the company is interested; etc..
In my opinion having this kind of public-private co-operation is healthy for both. I also do agree that there should some incentive to get students to study hard and graduate on time, but then again, there are many pitfalls: if you make students to take loans you may not get all your talent potential in use; if you pay a price for students that graduate on time, you may end up having students rushing throe the university, passing the tests but not learning anything.
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democracythreat, your comparison of the income tax to the pay-roll tax I understand, because about ? 70% of Russians never paid income tax only exactly the pay-roll tax. It is called income tax, but as you never communicate with the tax inspectorate if you have a job, as an employee (and are not a business owner) and the company's fin. dpt simply deducts from your salary the N-amount every month as your income tax, and sends it directly to the tax committee, it's more, like, basically, someone's "gross" salary per month and "net" (when the deduction is done).
The gross one you'll never see here, because the state does not trust people to pay taxes afterwards - deducts automatically at once :o))))
On the other hand you don't fill in any forms ever or bother meeting tax people. Thus it happens that those Russians who never ran own business - never saw a tax chap or tax papers in life. All due to the state is simply grabatised at once, come every monthly salary day (it's once a month, the pay day here, only differently set in each company as it likes , "on the 20th of every month" or on the 23rd, etc.)
I heard in USSR salaries were paid twice a month, 4th and 25th, but you know, since that - monthly.
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"Now going back to universities. While it is true that most of the best universities are in the USA, that is largely a factor of many causes: A) in the USA best universities, from which many are private, gather most money, but the rest of the education system largely lacks of money; B) USA imports lots of educated people around the world including best researchers; and C) as English language is the new lingua-France we tend to see and know of the results that are published in English, thus universities that are non-English, that publish in other languages than English, tend not to be as well known."
I think you are confusing cause and effect. For example, your point B). "USA imports lots of researchers". Is this the cause of them being the best or rather the result? Or both?
C) Everyone publishes in English now. Even my friends in Austrian medical school and Chinese universities publish in English. This is by now, a standard and doesn't interfere with visibility of research at all.
I agree the students shouldn't be rushed through university. Thats why the syllabi should be well structured, to give some margin of error.
Finally, many universities in the US are need-blind. That means that they will admit anyone good enough and if they cant pay, they will pay everything for you.
Isn't that the ultimative meritocratic university system?
Finally, I agree that secondary education in Europe is generally better than in the United States (High schools and below).
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I have never yet filled a tax form in my life, though I know they exist, and people get interested when they want to get back something from the state, in return, as big purchases type a house are tax deductable (once in one's life), but then again - company's Fin. dpt will do it for you, it's enough to bring papers that you bought a house to the emploer's accountant, that he figures out how to pay you more money next year, compensating for the "extra", "wrong" taxes that were deducted from you last year, when you bought a house. The tax then the state returns via the employer as well.
But as it is nearly impossible to scratch out something back from the state, though rumours go :o) there are heaps of interesting laws that allow one to get back over-paid taxes from the prev. year - hardly anyone ever attempt.
Or anyway, looses the spirit after first 6 hrs spent in the line in the local tax inspectorate, to just receive forms to be filled in, and then nobody never can fill in these forms correct, and one mistake on page 26 of 36-48 pages or so to be filled in ruins all start again, corrections are not allowed, but this you'll find only after you've submitted papers, plus 10 thousand copies of all otherd ocuments xeroxed and attached to them, so, basically, it's hard work and not compensating what small you hope to scratch out back again.
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I am considering to try to scratch out something for the last year, but hair raises on head in anticipation of the hard work days and days and troubles. And the total might be just 300 dollars so I am not sure iif to spend a couple of weeks to try to get money from the "pay-roll" tax over-paid then, it appears, back.
Though I heard there are some helpers in the tax expectorate or rather outside in the streets who can help fill in forms and expediate the process somehow, but they charge the same 300 so I guess it's all the same.
So small money due back from the state Russians simply skip, because of the costs to scratch them back. Stupid of course, we should train to be more persistent and not spoil the state with our small moneys.
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To Gheryando (135):
In case of the point B: it is hard to say nothing else than they have lots of more money to hire researchers and give them adequate research facilities. For why they have so much money, it is a good question, but whole country works with the winner-takes it all mentality...
In case of the point C: everyone can publish in English, but doing so only will lead into impoverishment of native language scientific terminology and material which has its own value too. And if the same research is published both in English and in native language then there is added overhead.
In case of syllabus. If we build a too rigidly structured syllabus for students that optimizes the lead-time then we end up mass producing huge loads of students with the same education without no variation. Also if the structures are too rigid, people can't set their learning speed by themselves. I myself tend to describe on thinking that there should quite much freedom to steer education as that way we will tailor education that is suitable to that individual person thus allowing deeper specialization. Also by not having too rigid structures students have to take charge of their own studies. Then again, there are negatives on giving too much freedom.
In case of university systems supporting or not supporting emergence of meritocratic system, I would tend to say that you have to look at the end results that the system produces, the whole picture so to say. While there maybe some universities in US that have need-blind programs, does it have any impact to the whole system, and how would that kind of system scaled up to work in every university impact? I tend to think that having FOC education is the easiest way to guarantee that everybody who have the smarts can also make it.
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oh, Ukraine's exit polls show that Julia Timoshenko is just a little bit behind Janukovich, some say 32 vs 28 per cent, others - a bigger gap, 36.6 and 25.8
At that all agree that in the 2nd round Julia will be able to attract onto her side those voters who voted for the 16 candidates other :o) in the 1st run, while Janukovich seemingly has no back-up stocks.
But then it is hard to say what are the preferences of these Ukrainians who voted for the 16 candidates other, likely :o) they don't know themselves :o) just wanted new faces.
We basically don't know what to want either, as none of the winning winners is "pro-Russian", Janukovich was but changed, his voters won't stand him being "pro-Russia" (Ukraininas awful sensitive and nervous in this respect) (because they know they picked up way too many Russian belongings on departure, and are thus alert to the possibility oof chase :o) and dear Julie is able to turn in all directions.
Of interesting things observed was just 2 so far first - only on Friday there closed up the site where votes were sold on the internet, mind it Russian side of Ukraine valued themselves traditionally cheap and modest a vote would cost just several dollars, while sea-side towns type Odessa asked for 3,000 dollars! per one vote. Awful expensive :o))))))
The other bright point is Timoshenko asked Saakashvili to send 2,000 observers to the elections, others got hysterical about it, as overall there are 3,000 observers from the whole world combined, so Saakashvili sent just 200 boys, but very strong-built boys :o)))), with no relation to elections never, and no accreditation this time either, just, how to say, 200 sporty chaps to be by hand just in case. They are there but so far did nothing only wobble around election points,.
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Jukka, I quite agree with your recent post.
One small point however:
"In case of the point C: everyone can publish in English, but doing so only will lead into impoverishment of native language scientific terminology and material which has its own value too. And if the same research is published both in English and in native language then there is added overhead."
I agree there is added overhead. Still, there is an overwhelming need to make research available to everyone and using ONE language is simply the best way. Imagine if Latin weren't used in the past in Europe for interscientific correspondences. It would have been a big mess. Nevertheless should the need arise, translating it into your own language shouldn't be much of a hindrance after all. (How big can the overheads be)
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To Gheryando (135):
Addition to the English language as an source of skewing...
If we look at the amount if scientific publications done by different countries, USA is more of an average country, close to Germany and France...
http://www.research.fi/en/performance/scientific_publication
However if we look at the amount of research per citations done, then we see the US jumping way up almost to the lead.
http://www.research.fi/en/performance/scientific_publication/Relative_citation_impact
I would argue that non-English countries fare worser in the Relative citation impact because not all their publications are accessible due to usage of something else than English, thus leading their universities and university systems having as not good reputation as they should have. So I would at least somewhat put under question mark that the US has the best universities, right now we think that they have, but is that really necessarily so is a question that I would ask.
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Every year, I get a big tax refund from the Fed ans state of Missouri. Its sometimes big enough to actually pay a big debt off---and I make under the average salary..quite alot under.
But, not waving, just drowning and I'm just saying that its a good way to get some money once a year. But, our taxes agency, IRS, is tops, but you know, somedayy in Russia (b4 China prob. lol)
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To Gheryando (140):
I would estimate that the overhead of translating a particular publication would be quite some. If for example we would translate your average PhD thesis, looking at my own alma matter, the average length of PhD thesis in computer science department seems to be approx 147 pages, that is a lot of translating to do. My gut estimate would be that from researcher who is adequately fluent in both native language and in English, it could take from 1-3 months on getting the whole publication translated. That is quite a much over-head in my opinion.
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Jukka 143 - Good point. Just reinforces the need to do it in one language.
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IMHO, all thses lost languages will come back..when Chinese becomes the dominant language--so difficult.
Read P. Krugmans column on China "Dont sell China short" at the NY Times site...basically says ..dont expect them to falter..soon.
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David,
who shorted China in the first place?
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A more interesting theme would be: "Don't sell America short", given that everyone is speaking of their (and our) relative decline.
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He startded by swindling an orphaned minor out of her famliy's villa (see Casati Stampa), together with the mafioso Previti who later would be jailed (but not before founding Forza Italia and serving in the Berlusconi government). Berlusconi was and is a member of the P2 Lodge - if ever there was a (soviet style) anti-democratic organisation, that's it. A head of government who has offshore holding companies, dodges taxes (see David Mills), cooks the books and accepts cheesy canopy beds from Putin for his "showgirls"..? Who's a communist...? Better to be a stalinist with absolute power, hey Silvino. If his supporters really think he's a fighter, let him go to court and answer the accusations against him. Svegliatevi.
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We get the leaders we deserve
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G,
In recsssions, we are all in decline, and in up-turns we are all miracle workers..remember the Clinton new economy?
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WA;
"hair raises on head in anticipation of the hard work days and days and troubles."
You think you've had some bad hair days? Nothing even remotely like this I'm certain;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiFfUnimUH4
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129. At 2:15pm on 17 Jan 2010, Jukka Rohila wrote:
" .... USA and Britain ...if you are born poor, the likely hood of you staying poor is much higher than if you were born in France or Germany or let alone to some Nordic country. "
EUpris: On the other hand if you are an apparatchik of the "EU"-Dictatorship, the chances of you being poor are very low.
And then, of course, if you are a lying politician who betrays the electorate the chances are that you will get some excessively highly paid job. It could be thought that this was a bribe. It certainly looks like a bribe and must have the effect of a bribe and that is one of the reasons the UK is a prisoner of the "U"-Dictatorship.
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BTW,
I am watching 'Return to Cranfield' :)..they ..the women ...are now all drunk n scared on Halloween night..fun, fun..anything with Judy Dench and I'm enthralled. (mesmerized)
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We've got big problems with weather starting, atmospheric pressure. I am all ill today, and fancied to check the barometer if it is to blame. ???!!! 790 mm. I swear I never saw that, 784 or 786 once, max.
barometer "starts" at 720 and "ends" at 800.
720 is the eye of a typhoon I think. 790 is I don't know what. Checjed BBC weather site it shows me high pressure but in other units an higher higher all next week no relief! 1946-1048 of something.
may be to get evacuated somewhere. Moscow yesterday trumpeted on TV absolute historical Moscow max of 771.
To Moscow, there it is normal. But cat and dog.
:o(
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Poor WA,
I hope for you.
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tomorrow is the 18th, I shall hope for the weathers passing soon.
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EUpris #152
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, then it must be a duck.
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Yes, David, may be someone who has a line vacant should hint to Russky God that 18th it is "baptising frosts" NOT "pressure".
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Follow-up on MA's mathematical links. A maths riddle from a blond girl :o) Well, honestly. From the dark-haired one as well! :o)))
I borrowed from you 100 roubles.
Went to the shop and lost them.
Met a girl-friend and borrowed from her 50.
Bought in the shop 2 chocolates, 10 roubles each.
Had 30 roubles left. So I returned them to you.
Owe you 70. To the girl-friend 50. Total 120. Plus I've got 2 chocolates. Makes 140! Where are 10 roubles???
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WA
The government grabatized them.
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Gheriando #120 thank you for your endorsement , I think you well understand how things are in Italy .
Jukka Rohila #121 , I am sorry if you view what I have written with disbelief . As I started my comment , you have to live in Italy to understand the complexities of Italian politics .
People who knew Romano Prodi as president of the European Commission will think of him as a very capable politician able to be a good PM and lead his country to prosperity . Dare I say , my view of Prodi is that he is soft like an old woman . His centre left government was made up of a multi party coalitian , each with its own agenda of social engineering , that he could not unite to a common cause . Social engineering costs money and as Italy is virtualy bankrupt , there isn't any . That is why I say that only somebody brash and strong , like Berlusconi , has the strength and determination to unite a coalition .
D'Alema and D'Amato are politically impotent . D'Alema was formerly a Communist , but has a taste for the high life , is owner of a large sailing yacht . Bertinotti of the Refoundation Communist Party , has the appearance and style of an upper middle class gentleman , but speaks and speaks unintelligible drivel that effectively says nothing .
Secondary schools and universties all have strong socialist student movements . My lawyer friend would not let his daughter attend school on the days of strikes and demonstrations .
School teachers , University lecturers and Judges never get away from the academic scene , their salaries are all paid by the state . They never enter the real world of competitive business , journalists too are largely socialist in Italy . As you rightly suggest there is a great deal of difference between the theory of egalitarianism and how it works out in real life .
One of my great friends came from a working class background . I think his father may have been a Partisan and was a communist . My friend's home happened to be in a good catchement area for schools .
A charming , amusing boy with a sense of fun , he became good friends with boys from elite backgrounds . He did well at school and though he didn't go to university , he worked for a major international pharmaceutical company , an area manager before his retirement . My friend has remained strongly socialist ; though he is married to a beautiful wealthy american lady , with whom he enjoys the good life .
I do not say that All Judges or All Teachers or University lectures and professors are strongly socialist , but it is common knowledge in Italy that they are predominantly so .
I marvel at how a university student can pass exams and become even a Vice Judge without having had years of adverserial practice as a lawyer . There is a vast catalogue of case history , which set precedents in almost all court cases . In Italy it is more complex , as laws that are superceded are never repealed , so the arguments of all the precending laws remain relevant and are activated by lawyers , so cases can take years to resolve .
I read in some later posts a reference to languages , English versus native languages , with respect to the study of medicine and Pharmaceutical science . Latin and English are the languages of medicine ; very likely the same applies to other sciences too . Worlwide you cannot become a doctor without some knowledge of English Language .
I am fascinated by WebAliceinwonderland's numerous lengthy posts , that are almost , if not completely , unrelated to the subject . I notice too , how quickly commenters deviate into unrelated topics .
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lo4NCXOX0p8
this one includes Abbott and Costello's two fives for a ten and their famous "who's on first" routine
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1fJDIXEq9w
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I think you people in Europe don't really undestand the real power this man has in my country: he controls (diractly and indirctly) 5 on 6 top tvs, 3 main newspaper and he is supported by mafia in southern italy! And last but not least most of italian people are culturally ignorant and prefer to listen to a "sympathic" politician that to a serious one. In other words politics in Italy is sick and there is no way to change it, i think i'm going to escape in UK or in Germany...
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Huaimek
Re #161
I notice how every Full Stop and Comma of your recent contribution is "almost, if not completely unrelated" to each Sentence!
WebAlice is a treasure trove of alternative perspectives and erudition.
Deviation on these Blogs is now practically a tradition: It brings out an array of views on issues from contributors and can be very entertaining and informative.
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In a world where many voters don't pay their taxes, the incentive to vote for a good and decent man is reduced. It's safer to vote for a corrupt candidate, a stupid candididate, a criminal candidate, or, at least, a turn a blind eye candidate, certainly a candidate who tells you everything is great no matter how it really is. Worst of all, the decent man, elected and given the power might even catch up with you.
In a world where you are at risk of your job being given to foreign labour, foreign labour often working under near slave conditions, you vote for anyone who listens to your lament, anyone who gives you someone to blame, someone lower down the food chain to make you feel less bad.
Meanwhile, everything, schools, universities, industry, art, people and their heritage, in what should be a beautiful world rots.
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I don't know what Europeans are complaining about. They've unquestioningly accepted that Italy must be an integral part of the E-Who? because it is one of the largest economies in Europe. To its unworkable political system, its dubious distinction of being the most racist country in Europe, its shrinking indigenous population, its unwillingness to eliminate criminal organizations, add the lack of any economic restraint which was removed when Europans passively accepted the end of the Growth and Stability pact in Maastrict because France and Germany wouldn't live within those constraints, then when Italy goes down the tubes (or will be be Greece or some other one first) and takes all of Euroland down with it, don't complain. Each of the governments who were adamant about joining the E-Who? and tie their fate to Italy's to the point of denying their voters a direct voice in the decision because it might have said NO! have no one to blame for the inevitable consequences but themselves.
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Huaimek,
the thread was parctically dying for 2 days, so I simply did my best to liven it up with whatever. may I remind you that the main rule of Literature is that "it doesn't matter what it's about the main thing it is interesting to read".
Now, I am not saying this rule is automatically transferrable onto blog rules :o)))) (What are the blog rules, in case of emergency? when the flow of posts gets thin) but I was using the only rule about written texts I know of.
So that comrades :o) won't lose the habit to fly to the light :o))
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This is quite a day when MA II and David Cameron produce stuff that I totally agree with.
Back to topic "...his face miraculously restored... ...hardly any scar visible..."
What exactly is his face made of? Even 10 year olds don't recover like that. He was actually injured, wasn't he?
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cool_brush_work #164
Thank you for your advice on my punctuational errors . Though English , I was never that brilliant at English Grammar . My grandmother used to return my letters with errors and corrections marked in red ink . Perhaps you would like to do the same ?! I have been criticised on other Blogs for an excess of punctuation .
I have read with interest a number of your comments on the EU and strongly agree with what you have to say . I have been against Britain's joining the EEC and voted in the 1975 Referendum for Britain to leave the EEC . I was strongly against John Major signing the Maastricht Treaty and was one of many who refused to support his
Conservative Party , eventually bringing it down .
I am not against a loose association of European states , like a Commonwealth or Confederation , with each country governing itself entirely as a sovereign state . The present EUSSR is a disaster and will sooner or later fall apart .
MarcusAuraliusII #167
I feel that Italy has a right to be Racist , invaded from all sides by unwelcome illegal immigrants . The worthwhile illegal immigrant go north to Germany or Britain ; those who remain are a burdon on society . Illegal immigrants from Eastern Europe have caused a terrifying crimewave across Italy . Ponderous huge Africans accost one around every corner to buy something you don't want . I have been similarly pestered in exclusive shops , where I have had to call the manager to eject the person . I do not like to see in a traditionally Christian country women walking around the streets of a rural town wearing a Burkha . I am English and was open minded until I went to live in Italy . Now , I too am a Racist and anti Religion !
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WebAliceinwonderland #168
Well Done ! Well Said ! You give the blog a breath of fresh air , keep us entertained . You too have noticed how the comments run out of steam , lose the thread of the subject , become a lot of boring hot air . At least in Russia you would see the steam rising .
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Rosolino #58
You make comprisons between Italy and Thailand , Berlusconi and " Creepy Thaksin . I now live in Northeast Thailand , married to a Thai .
Having previously lived for a number of years in Italy , I see strong similarities between the two countries . In Thailand corruption is the way of life at all levels of society . To a certain extent that applies to Italy too . There is much said by the Thai PM about stamping out corruption . Politicians and the Police are considered to be the most corrupt . If you replaced them all with new people the corruption would remain the same . I believe in Italy it is the same , to some extent everyone has to go with the flow .
You may be anti Berlusconi , but the majority of Italians seem to support his government ; to which there are currently no alternatives .
You are completely wrong with regard to Thaksin . A very small section of the population supported the coup which deposed him . Thailand , corruption or not , was far better governed and more prosperous under Thaksin than it is today . Thaksin has the support of the rural population of the north and northeast who are by far the majority of the Thai voting population . In a general election the party backed by Thaksin will win , even if he is in exile .
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Huaimek, yes, the thread was getting thin, and on what! On Italy!
Now, :o) this is absolute shame on Cheryando, because we happen to have a regular contributor - Italian, in the company (of various fish :o)
and not to be able to host a thread on own Italy - shame! shame on you, Cherry Cheryando! :o))))
Must be Italians are simply modest. "Italiano vere" (true?) or how is it correctly spelled in that song. :o)))))))
Waiting , modestly, what others will tell about them.
Now, Cheryando, this is no good. Tell me - what are the news on Garibaldi? Did Dezdemona finally pray for the night, or not?!
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Huaimek
Re #170
You mistook my purpose in #164.
I was pointing out your computer seemed to be leaving double-space in your sentences for 'commas' and after each sentence for 'full stops': I thought it might be a technical issue (I have no understanding of computers).
No criticism intended of your content except to support WebAlice etc. and the diversity of views on these Blogs.
Your views on Europe coincide with mine to some extent:
Though I voted for UK/England to remain in the EEC (Common Market) as it was my understanding in 1975 that the aims of this organisation were (1) to ensure peace across 'west' Europe (which has done admirably), (2) to strengthen international ties by 'common' Trade-tariffs and Transport rules plus (3) a gradual development of easier access for Citizens to each Nation.
Frankly, the modern day overmighty, unaccountable, corrupt and venal EU is anathema to everything I believe is good for the UK/England and for European Citizens. How 'we' (meaning UK and Europe) got from the loose alliance of common political-economic-fiscal interests circa 1975 to the 2009 Lisbon Treaty entity is an amazing political connivance of the highest order! An EU, almost entirely without Citizens' support since Maastricht now dominates elected National Parliaments' legislation in Economics/Trade/Finance/Judiciary/Social Services/Employment etc. Worst of all it is now is dangerously moving toward a 'Foreign' and 'Military' union that has absolutely no foundation in popular Mandate. That the cabal of Paris-Berlin-Brussels may one day soon decide the UK/England foreign policy on any international issue is astonishing when one thinks as recently as 1975 the UK leadership was stating nothing of the sort was ever possible!
It is a wonder and a dreadful commentary on the venality and corruption of all UK Governments post-1990 that they have led Britons into this situation - - where British Armed Forces and British Citizens are beholden to and answerable to a centralised EUrocratic regime that shares no interest in the advancement of the UK/England - - its only real purpose to create conditions for lining its political-civil servant classes' avaricious pockets and those of 'big-Government/big-Business'.
Some on here, complain all the time that 'anti-EU', such as me, are 'living in the past' and/or 'don't understand' the issues: Their real problem is, we 'anti' understand only too well what a political con-trick is being perpetrated on the Citizens, and their complaint about us therefore often descends to how 'bad' the National situation is, but as the EU offers nothing better than a one-size-fits-all tyranny they simply are at a loss as to what to claim in its defence.
I cannot comment much on Italy as I know little except the history of its 'unification': At least in the time of Garibaldi the Italians knew what he was about - - unlike the wretchedly duplicitous European Govewrnments and EU of today!
Cheers and keep the comments coming no matter what the punctuation.
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Cool_brush_work #174
Yes I did misunderstand your comment on my punctuation . You are right I have a serious problem with my computer . Recently a local technician diagnosed a problem with my microsoft windows programme . I foolishly left it with him overnight . He took out my entire programme , all my data , everything and put in a free Windows professional XP , which I simply hate . My keyboard is Italian ; the Thai version of of widows XP will only work to a Thai keboard , so I am guessing which keys to press for puntuation . I have sent to my excellent technician in Italy for a new Italian programme , even an out of date one like my computer .
Actually I have been looking at an Apple 20" desktop , but they are expensive . I was never very clever at school , I pride myself on being English and speaking Italian well . I have many dear friends in Italy with whom I regularly correspond by E mail and letter . I love Italy as a country ; but its politics local and national beggar belief .
I forget now why I was always so opposed to Britain's membership of the EEC . I remember clearly the televised Oxford Union debate prior to the referendum in 1975 . Amazing anti EEC speeches were made by Peter Shaw and Anthony Wedgewood Benn . It is the only time I have agreed with the latter ; he was spot on and what he said remains true to this day .
Many of my friends voted to remain in the EEC ; subsequently they have said if they had known where it was leading to they would have voted like me to come out .
I was an art student in Florence in 1966-67 ; I never registered with the police , I had my car there which I never took out of the country as I should have done . I never had the slightest problem .
I think when John Major signed Maastricht and favoured an enlargement of European states ; he believed that Britain had the power to steer Europe towards a commonwealth or loose Confederation of Nation states .
Britains influence at that time was stronger than now , but the Commission and central european countries were bent on creating a single federal state as originally planned . It is a disaster for us all and I believe will eventually fall apart . I would like to see Britain being the first country to leave . It was criminal of Gordon Brown to sign the Lisbon Treaty ; knowing that the majority of British people were opposed to further integration with the EU .
I fear that for the present no major political party has the courage to say enough is enough Britain will leave the EU .
Italy should never have joined the Euro ; people and politicians believed it would stablise the economy . I said to enthusistic friends beforehand ," You may be pleased to travel abroad with the money in your pocket equal to other countries , but you will pay for it dearly at home ". The cost of living rose 30% in the first year , 50-100% the second year . Italy that was so easily able to raise or lower the value of the Lira , has been completely ruined . Even before I left one senator had suggested returning to the Lira . Italy had cooked the books to qualify for the single currency : I dare say leaving would leave then dreadfully exposed .
That The EU should dictate Britain's foreign policy is unthinkable . I have read of British soldiers saying they would not serve in a European Army . Most European forces are militarily toothless , couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag .
You write of the one size fits all ; the chocolate debate was a good example . Northern Europe and Southern Europe have completely different tastes in chocolate . Northeners like a hard chocolate tasting of chocolate , southerners like a soft chocolate that sometimes has no taste at all . I have had to give away some brands of Italian chocolate that I couldn't eat . North Europeans , especially Britain , play strictly by the rules ; southern europeans ignore what they don't like or make no effort to enforce the laws .
Italy was historically and technically unified by Garibaldi . The truth is that although there is a central government , people are only patriotic to their own state Toscana or Umbria , Lazio wherever . The only tine Italy is truly united is for the football world cup .
Rest assured Britain is not the only country with Eurosceptics ; they need to start to work together as a European eurosceptic force .
I am happy to have escaped to Thailand ; but I feel so sorry for Britain and all the European countries that are being swallowed up by this terrible EU institution .
Thanks for your long friendly comment , we will each have more to say on the subject . There are a few of us here who really see the truth behind the EU propaganda .
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democracythreat: In post 126, regarding worker rental tax, over here employees have the option of receiving (and subsequently paying) that income tax money to at least some state governments — I have done so myself in jobs past. I don’t think that it’s an option here for the federal government, though.
WebAliceinwonderland: I quite like the expression tax expectorate from post 137. ;*) Most people here must file tax returns each year, as there is the possibility that not enough tax was withheld from their pay over the course of a year, and thus the federal and/or state governments might be owed yet more money. How many hours do you think it would take for you to fill in the forms to claw back your overpaid taxes? How would that tax-rubles/form-filling-hours rate compare to your typical hourly pay rate? That might help decide whether it would be worth pursuing or not.
Huaimek: Does the Thai version of Windows XP support multiple keyboard layouts via the Language Bar, the way that Western versions do? If so, then you or your local technician should be able to set up your computer to have both Thai and Italian keyboard layouts available to you, switchable via Left Alt-Shift.
If the Thai version corresponds to the Western versions, then within the Control Panel, there’s Regional and Language Options (with a globe icon), in which there’s a Languages tab with a Details button; this opens a Text Services and Input Languages window on its Settings tab, which has an Add button; this in turn opens an Add Input Language window, on which “Italian (Italy)” is selectable. Also on the Settings tab is a Language Bar button, which opens a Language Bar Settings window, in which the first checkbox can be selected to have the Language Bar show on the desktop. Pressing the Apply button, then the OK button on the Settings tab, then pressing Apply and OK on the Languages tab, should then make the Italian keyboard layout available via the Language Bar.
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