Plotting Czech-mate?
The lesson of today is this: You can never be entirely certain that President Klaus of the Czech Republic will sign the Lisbon Treaty until he actually does.
Yesterday the Czech Prime Minister Jan Fischer and the Czech Europe Minister Stefan Fule confidently predicted their president would sign the treaty by the end of the year or even sooner.
Today the Swedish Prime Minister Fredrik Reinfeldt, who holds the EU presidency, managed to get hold of the Czech president on the phone. He had been trying to have the call since the Irish voted "Yes" last week. Vaclav Klaus told the Swedish PM that he would abide by the ruling of the Czech Constitutional Court - which has not come yet. Then he dropped his bombshell. He wanted a footnote added to the treaty in relation to the EU Charter of Fundamental Rights.
It is fair to say that no one knew about this condition, including ministers in the Czech government. They certainly did not know about it in Brussels. And President Klaus wants the European Council - the EU leaders - to take a decision on the footnote.
Now we don't yet know what this footnote contains. It would need all 27 countries to agree to it. There could well be arguments over it that could prolong the whole process. However it may be the president's escape clause, so that he can demonstrate he got something out of Brussels.
But today's intervention will fuel unease that the Czech president is unpredictable and that it is unwise of Europe to try and read his mind.
I'm 
~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~57~RS~)
Comments
Sign in or register to comment.
Good for him.
Complain about this comment
Surprise, surprise. Spends all his time complaining about how undemocratic the EU is, then wants something from the most undemocratic part of it! (the council is the most undemocratic because it operates without scrutiny from opposition and still has the final say on policy) and attempting to overule the parliament and constitutional court at the same time!
Its all about his ego, anyone who has lived in the Czech Republic can tell you that!
Complain about this comment
I'm a Scot resident in the Czech Republic, and Czechs generally consider Klaus a little arrogant, and it's widely thought that his stance on this issue is another facet of that self infatuation.
There is a well known joke regarding the end of the world, Obama, Medvedev and Klaus. The punch line being that Klaus is one of the three most important people in the world.
My impression of Czech opinion is that they generally consider the E.U a good idea and that the impact it has had on the country is positive. The average Czech is not especially interested in politics, though - a hangover from communism.
Complain about this comment
What does this mean? Depends on what's in the footnote doesn't it? Without knowing that all this story will generate is more whinging from EU backers anxious to rush the treaty through before anyone else throws a shoe in the machinery of ratification.
Complain about this comment
It is fair to say that the impression joe public gets of the "European project" is that it is moving too quickly and decisions are being steamrollered through by national governments, and those who pause for thought (like the Czech president) are chastised/laughed at/... by those in European power. This is not how democracy works. It is no wonder more and more people in the UK are quite rightly put off the whole idea.
Even the irish who had a referendum had to have it twice in order to get the "right" result from the "plebs".
Complain about this comment
The best news in weeks! Now even if the Czech court accepts the treaty, good-old Klaus will still have an argument to say no. Any delay is a good one here.
Complain about this comment
@neilles
When you pause an instant to consider that the Constitution/Lisbon Treaty has been almost 8 years in the process (and even longer if you consider that Nice Treaty was its preliminary workings), it's hard to believe that anybody is "steamrolled" ... and certainly not Klaus.
In the US, you would call his behaviour "filibustering ad nauseam" ...
There is nothing wrong with having several referendums on the same issue : Norway had 3 to decide whether or not to join the EEC (prior to EU).
What could be argued was the necessity to have a second referendum only 15 months after the first IF you believe that the first referendum was an informed vote on the issue, rather than an kneejerk reaction to fantasist fears and a deeply unpopular political class (who barely bothered to go campaign for a Yes vote until the very last weeks).
the view from Ireland is quite simple :
1) Let's move on with the EU
2) Go target someone else
hope it helps you have some perspective on those issues.
Best regards,
Complain about this comment
In stead of promoting an image of a banana republic, and his own image as an unaccountable technocrat who is disdainful of public opinion, Mr. Klaus should adhere to his key responsibility, i.e. to promote,defend and protect Czech allegiance to EU in order to guard the interests and needs of the Czech people and of other EU states. Mr. Klaus'delays to ratify Lisbon treaty are not only unconstitutional. They are incomprehensible and morally wrong.
Complain about this comment
I freely admit to knowing next to nothing about 'Constitutional Law' and as the Lisbon Treaty is not a 'constitution' according to the EU and the UK Government I do not know the ramifications of recent developments.
What I do know is that the 3 Protocols added to the Treaty of Lisbon after the first Eire Referendum rejected it were put in-place after 'ratification' by 20+ National Governments. It was altered by those Protocols: Surely Ratification of a Treaty which is then changed means the process has to be gone through again or the Treaty is nul and void?
And will not the same apply were the EU Commission to agree to the Czech President's 2 sentences being tacked on?
So far as I am aware in every other walk of life where Legal Contractual Obligations are set-up the Signatories are obliged only to act upon those sections in place at the time of Signature.
Obviously the European Union being such a cesspit of corruption and duplicity every normal standard of Legality is made nul and void in order for the Federal agenda to go marching on.
Is there not one wealthy person somewhere in the British Isles or mainland Europe prepared to at least pay for a Legal Consultation on this Legal Technicality? Isn't there a legal eagle somewhere eager to make a name for themsleves willing to come forward and make the case that Lisbon Treaty plus 3 protocols has NOT been ratified?
Complain about this comment
What a childish behaviour - no comment
Complain about this comment
#8. jardatusek
It is absolutely clear that the Czech ratification takes place according to the Czech constitution, but the question is of course when it will happen. It cannot last forever before the Czech republic says it ratifies or it does not ratify.
The other member countries have not negotiated with the president but with the Czech government, so we are waiting to see what the „footnote“means and to see if the Czech government is behind this.
Just to clear the picture: From Warsaw the message tonight is that the president is going to sign the Lisbon treaty on Saturday.
Complain about this comment
Brown and Milliband are the ones facing Czech mate here. If they go into the 2010 election with the conservatives still offering the referendum Brown lied about in the 2005 manifesto to win that election then Labour will be destroyed next Spring.
http://www.PetitionOnline.com/sptklaus/petition.html
Complain about this comment
Thank you Klaus!
Please hold out until we here in the UK can elect a government that will give us our promised referendum on the Lisbon (aka Constitutional) Treaty.
Complain about this comment
So MrKlaus does not like the treaty and will do anything to spoil it for the rest. What the EU should do is to let him have his way and go ahead with the Czech republic. If they they then want to join later on, it will be without any preconditions from the Czech government and maybe a penalty or a probationary period. I can understand his concerns about a superstate but enough is enough. That's what democracy is about, majority rule not minority rule; he reminds me of the Republicans in the US, having lost the election they then become obstructionists and want to force their minority views on the majority.
Complain about this comment
This is yet another move by Klaus to cement his reputation outside of the Czech Republic as an ornery, obstinate, self-serving politician. It is true that most of the country is EU-neutral or -skeptic, but the people generally don't follow politics and have no opinion on the goings-on in Europe. It appears that this is a hopefully-last-ditch attempt to shoot down the Lisbon Treaty (or at least ratify it on Klaus' own terms). With the biggest hurdle - Ireland - out of the way, Klaus needs to come up with more ideas: resubmitting it to the Constitutional Court, adding a footnote, etc. And I don't agree that Klaus' decisions will only reflect the interests of the CZ - if he can team up with Cameron to force a referendum that has a 50/50 chance of passing, he will, in order to postpone application of the Treaty.
The EU should start to lose its patience very soon; I already have. As a Czech person, I appreciate the benefits the EU has accorded us and will be very blunt in saying that the EU does not need us. The Czechs are notorious for screwing things up and earning a bad international reputation. We don't need this!
Complain about this comment
I love it! The Czech tradition of defenestration is alive and well with Lisbon! Chuck that treaty out the window! I hope the EUsceptics get what they want from Santa Klaus this year!
Complain about this comment
If you don't like the EU don't join the EU.
The EU needs a boost and the treaty will help push in that direction.
This guy will - if he insists on this - will radicalize the EU. And more countries will do the same. Hence the EU will collapse.
Complain about this comment
Get this over and done with - I'm bored and I'd rather not have to deal with another x years of retards in the UK press and Parliament!
Complain about this comment
There's more to this than Czechs 'thinking that Klaus is a litle arrogant'. He's a black-belt, fully-trained Moscow hood of the old school. He went to an 'Economics School' sponsored by the KGB and specialising in destabilisation. He has betrayed his country's reputation countless times, not least when he organised the vote of no confidence that brought down the government in mid-term of their presidency of the EU, destroying the last shreds of credibility left over from the Havel days. He's maundering on about how we must 'get closer to our natural allies, the Russians' now, and using the whole debate to discredit the Constitutional Court, a perennial natural obstacle to his magalomaniac style of presidency. He denies global warming, insults his own scientists and openly collaborates with elements of government mega-corrupt even by the abysmal standards of this end of the world. And for me, worst of all, he has become the figurehead for opposition to the EU, an organisation I detest.
And BTW, can a BBC 'editor' (whatever that means) please lay off the cheap puns on the word 'Czech' - we're sick of them here, especially when they don't even have any logical relation to text (who, exactly, is 'check-mated' round here? Certainly not Klaus). And the qualifier 'caretaker' should be added to ALL government titles right now. The Czech Republic will not have an elected parliament for at least another couple of months - again thanks to Klaus and his little cabal. Do your homework, Gavin, and try and pretend to be a journalist once in a while. The BBC needs one or two of them.
Complain about this comment
@17: "This guy will - if he insists on this - will radicalize the EU. And more countries will do the same. Hence the EU will collapse"
Well, that's the whole point, isn't it?
The 'political' EU may be affected but the 'economic' EU will probably be just fine, Lisbon or no. I certainly understand why the EU elites want ever closer political union - so that they can really punch their weight politically.
Many people are rightly concerned about a ‘slippery slope’. A little here, a little there, and, hey presto, the EU is calling ALL the shots and national sovereignty is limited to only its cultural manifestations. And it would seem to me that once sovereignty is ceded to Brussels you ain’t getting it back! Better to apply the brake while it’s still possible.
Complain about this comment
Gavin, as an ex-pat Kiwi living in the Czech Republic, I can sum Klaus up very succintly: an arrogant egotistic idiot! Politics in this country is a real basket case. The interim PM Jan Fischer is the best PM this country has had in years. He has no ego & gets on with the job. If only Klaus the Mouse would do the same!
Complain about this comment
I really want to find out what the two lines are, ah well, not that it would affect Britain (or Poland for that matter) due to the opt-out from Charter of Fundamental Rights.
Complain about this comment
Sure the Torries don't want this treaty ratified.
The treaty is good news for the smaller nations of the EU.
It will limit the UK, Germany and France in their ability to bully the smaller nations around with their relatively larger size. That behavior in essence is undemocratic in a Union and contributed a lot to our (Dutch) anti-EU (anti-(UK, GE, FR)) sentiments). Fear of being marginalised by the bigger nations pushing their agendas. Especially, since most smaller nations contribute the most per capita (at least mine does), and the larger nations have not really been team-players, rather prima-donnas. We have been bullied enough over the past few hundred years, so some regulation is more than welcome. Why a president of a smaller nation is not signing this treaty it is beyond me. Kind regards from the Netherlands,
Johan
Complain about this comment
Klaus reminds me of the guy in China who stood in front of the tank at Tiananmin Square trying to stop the Communist juggernaught that could have rolled right over him and turned him into a pancake. I think that if the Czech government doesn't flatten Klaus, the EU juggernaught will. He isn't going to stop anything anymore than the guy in front of the tank did.
WorldCtzn7;
"As a Czech person, I appreciate the benefits the EU has accorded us and will be very blunt in saying that the EU does not need us."
I'm sure you appreciate that British, German, and other taxpayers from the more affluent EU countries are sending you money involuntarily even though they have more than enough unsolved problems at home to spend it on. It replaces the money the USSR used to sent you to keep you in their empire. Also among the appreciative are contractors who build roads and bridges in Hungary and the commuters who ride over them and French farmers who probably consume more wine grapes themselves than they can sell to others.
The EU needs the Czech Republic the way it needs other members since its grand expansion because the people who conceived it, drove its expansion, and use it as a political tool on the world stage can add your population and GDP to the tally of what they say they represent. They feel they have more power and influence that way. One day when the US is convinced, it will walk out of Afghanistan, Bosnia, Georgia, and dozens of other places its troops are now and tell the EU; "you are so big and rich, you take care of it. It's closer to you and is more dangerous to you than it is to us."
Complain about this comment
Breaking News: Footnote apparently reads:
'... and that I, Klaus of the Czech Republic, shall be deemed President of the European Council on the full Ratification of the Lisbon Treaty, for a full term of Office, and will claim full Presidential Pension (and Immunity from Ridicule) for a term lasting not less than the non-artificially-continued half-life of my egocentricity, and a bit after that too. Thank you.'
Actually, I like the guy; he seems to be an Old School Eccentric! :)
Complain about this comment
Merkel is the one leader who by law doesnt have to face a referendum and she was the one who called this treaty a constitution in all but name. As the constitution was voted down first by the French and then by the Dutch, we thought we had seen the last of it - but oh no! here it comes again. Klaus is actually doing democracy a favour - let us hope he can delay till Cameron can announce a referendum.
Complain about this comment
why doesn't he just opt-out like the Brits do?
Complain about this comment
Can the treaty be passed over Klaus's head? Can the Czech parliament force him to sign the treaty, or can he be deposed by the parliament if he refuses?
Complain about this comment
#24. At 9:25pm on 08 Oct 2009, MarcusAureliusII wrote:
"Klaus reminds me of the guy in China who stood in front of the tank at Tiananmin Square trying to stop the Communist juggernaught that could have rolled right over him and turned him into a pancake."
Err, Marcus, Klaus is the one driving the tank here, the regime that doesn't want to move with the times...
Complain about this comment
I am Czech and I am truly sorry we have such a arrogant and selfish man as a president. Klaus is disaster to our country (believe me, he is as much 'creative' in internal politics as he is in international). This new "idea" is nonsense. President in out country has no right to change international treaties by himself so this ammended version would need new ratification by both senate and parliament, otherwise it can be disputed by Czech constitutional court.
PS I am not saying I am Lisabon treaty enthusiast, I tried to read it but I found out that to understand it would need law degree and a few days of time.
Complain about this comment
To the question: "Can the treaty be passed over Klaus's head? Can the Czech parliament force him to sign the treaty, or can he be deposed by the parliament if he refuses?" - hardly. Czech president can be removed from office by his abdication, or after impeachment for high treason or because he is found not capable to perform his duty. He is carefull not to direcly refuse to sign which maybe could be interpreted as treason, but event then hope is slim.
Complain about this comment
@24 MA2
There are hardly any US troops left in Bosnia (or the Balkans for that matter) : they have long been replaced by European troops and law enforcement officers.
Georgia didn't go to war because of the EU, but because of the recklessly expansionist US foreign policy, in regards to NATO. As such, it was a good thing that the US were left humiliated for the hollowness of their security guarantees ... too bad, the Georgians had to pay with their own blood to make it clear.
Afghanistan has been a playground for frivolous empires (Persian, Russian, British ... and US). Considering that the US thoughtlessly empowered the military apparatus in Pakistan (over a civil and democratic society) and flooded Afghanistan with weapons to fight the Soviets, then walked away claiming "Mission Accomplished", I still fail to see how the EU has got anything to take much responsibility for.
I mean, Afghanistan was quite unruly before and it won't change much whether there are NATO troops or not.
Should it be because of article 5 of NATO ? well, the Bush Administration didn't care much for it when it was invoked, only when they realized how overstreteched the US military became once in Iraq. And since then, all NATO (US included) have been fighting a lost battle because they couldn't get a local government to earn legitimacy.
As for Pakistan "losing" nuclear weapons to terrorists, ... well, sure it's a possibility, but wasn't it the same fear that many had when the USSR collapsed ? how many "24hrs" nuclear incidents really happened in the last 20 years ? NADA,ZILCH, NOTHING ... and that is because security and law enforcements services were working behind, not a 60-pound guerilla bombing villagers to "liberate" them and "spread democracy".
how much is worth the life of an Iraqi or Afghani ? Shouldn't the US start paying blood money on the same basis as the ones received by americans killed "by mistake" or as "unavoidable collateral damage" ?
All in all, Europeans are already taking care of their own turfs, except that they are already helping yanks cleaning the mess they created.
so plz, spare us all your pathetic irony, you are a finished moron.
Best regards,
Complain about this comment
All the leaders will be there to witness the Polish signing... furious conversations over the phone about what the consequences for the Czechs will be... veiled threats to the future Conservative PM....
It kind of reminds you of a bunch of hawk lawyers and family members, holding the pen steady for the dying relative to sign over a new will. Remember, once its signed, it's signed.
Complain about this comment
To DiscoStu_d (20):
Economical and political union go hand in hand with each others. The watershed moment when an economical union turns to full political union is when you put your currencies together. It may not be de-jure political union, but as the countries in question via sharing the same currency face the same situation, they are going to either pull the same rope or not pull at all.
I would also make a note that it isn't actually a slippery rope. The idea to form a single market, the idea to have a single currency, the idea to have a one foreign policy are choices of necessity dictated by the learned mistakes of history.
What strikes me most with both Klaus and the Tories are that they haven't learned anything from the history of past 50 years, nothing at all.
Complain about this comment
It's said that president Klaus is extraordinary intelligent. May be that he is. But then he knows exactly what he is doing and he follows elaborate plans. Probably MercTrasher (19.) might be right. But if, in globalization ages, our good Europe wants to stop agelong everlasting wars and to unify in common concern , than she would find a way how to do it even without Czech Republic. But Czech people, including myself, will than suffer lonely somewhere between Europe and Russia. Regrettably.
Nevertheless I hope it will turn to better ends.
Complain about this comment
I'm probably as pro-EU as you can be. But every time I see Klaus open his mouth my heart leaps for joy a little. Not sure why but I think it is good to have someone like him round to stir Europe up. Europe needs its Eurosceptics. If only he believed in global warming he could a halfway decent Council President.
Complain about this comment
I second the comment of PARRISIA_GREECE: why doesn't the Czech Republic opt out as the UK has?
Complain about this comment
So, if the parliament can't go over his head, and he can't be impeached, what can the Czech parliament do, if anything, to get the Lisbon treaty ratified? Is the only possible way, therefore, for all Czechs interested in seeing Lisbon ratified, to threaten to vote against anyone in Klaus's party, or against his allies?
Complain about this comment
Go and watch the speech he gave in the European Parliament then ask yourself why many MEPs walked out. It makes you wonder where some people's loyalties lie.
Complain about this comment
Funny how he never mentioned these footnotes until now. Obviously a drama queen.
He had no problem coming over to my country, Ireland, and sitting side by side with Declan Ganley, the leading light of the No campaign, on an anti-Lisbon platform.
On the same basis of interference, I'm sure he wouldn't mind being told to stop being a spoilt brat. If he couldn't secure a Czech referendum, that's a matter for him. At this stage in the game, Europe should not be held up so he can get his jollies.
Complain about this comment
Johan_Heuvel wrote:
"The treaty is good news for the smaller nations of the EU. It will limit the UK, Germany and France in their ability to bully the smaller nations around with their relatively larger size. That behavior in essence is undemocratic in a Union and contributed a lot to our (Dutch) anti-EU (anti-(UK, GE, FR)) sentiments). Fear of being marginalised by the bigger nations pushing their agendas."
What on earth are you talking about Johan?! If this Treaty gets through then you will be having the "Bigboys" bullying even MORE! At the moment the rules are "if ONE country doesn't like the proposal(usually from FRA and GER) then it is VETOED!" in so many words. If the treaty is ratified then it won't be like this it will be MAJORITY voting!!! And guess what?! Who has the most 'seats/votes' in Brussels?! FRA(70+) , GER(90+), GBR(70+), SPA(50+), ITA(50+)! (Can someone please give exact amounts of votes they have)You combine all those votes together in a MAJORITY voting system the you can forget the say of the 'small' countries! The "Bigboys" will do as they please and no-one would stop them! YOU WILL BE IGNORED FULL-STOP! YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!!!
Keep going Czech Rep!!!
Complain about this comment
Funny, No. 32, in your response (reposte) to MAII, you came up with a one-sided view, which in reality IS incorrect. Anybody dealing with another's anger can identify that response for what it is.
Yes, America has "messed" up many times in the past, but one has to look at the Whole picture...the good and the bad.
No reminders of WWI or WWII here--I'm talking about Cold War political/military positions--some were horrific--but where America has been countries have prospered afterwards....
But, the toxic touch of other empires whom raped and pillaged and used that money for their own nations...funny that colonization turned out to be economically unfeaseable--
one cannot have a colony and make a profit--if trying to improve the lives of colonists.
So, how proud you must be that you were born after colonization by European countries. Now, you can look down on others...how fortunate you are.
Complain about this comment
42. stellarBeloved
"where America has been countries have prospered afterwards...."
Vietnam?
Complain about this comment
old gnat;
About Vietnam being so impovrished resulting from its war with the US, you reminded me of the old joke about the dying man screaming at god complaining; you made me poor all my life, why couldn't you have made me wealthy by maybe letting me win the lottery?" And god said back to him "why couldn't you help me out by buying a ticket?"
Vietnam was poor and broken because that is what it wanted. Had it not held so tenaciously to the failed doctrine of socialism in the same way West Europeans were enamored with it, it would have started getting richer much sooner. Now it has learned its lesson and is becoming a capitalist dictatorship like China. Had it chosen this path in 1960, there wouldn't have been a war at all. One day North Korea will make the same choice...if they don't force us to blow it to kingdom come first.
Complain about this comment
Gavin wrote:
"But today's intervention will fuel unease that the Czech president is unpredictable and that it is unwise of Europe to try and read his mind."
Gavin! Please can you stop referring to the "EU" as Europe?
Complain about this comment
Some have complained here about Klaus being "arrogant."
Did the same people complain about the arrogance of El Presidente, Tony Blair in getting elected nby offering us a referendum and then not giving us one?
Did they complain about the arrogance of Miliband in signing the rotten piece of paper when he knew that about 70% of Brits do not want it??
Complain about this comment
Could Klaus please insist on another condition i.e. that every "Ciitizen of Europe" should get their own copy of the treaty printed on a roll of absorbent paper about 6 or 7 inches high which is perforated about every seven inches?
Complain about this comment
10. At 7:48pm on 08 Oct 2009, Seraphim85 wrote:
"What a childish behaviour - no comment"
Excuse me! I'm from Suffolk. Surely that is a comment?
Complain about this comment
Bulimics like the "EU".
Complain about this comment
# 15.
Worldctzn7 wrote:
"This is yet another move by Klaus to cement his reputation outside of the Czech Republic as an ornery, obstinate, self-serving politician."
That probably isn't his intention, although it may be the result (at least in some circles).
"It is true that most of the country is EU-neutral or -skeptic,"
Really?
If that's the case it would seem to give Klaus' resistance to signing the treaty much greater credibility.
As to this "footnote", I'm guessing its probably a delaying tactic and from what some have said for show, but you never know, it could be something that seeks to protect the Czech national interest.
Complain about this comment
Since Sweden is running the EU presidency in this second part of 2009 Swedish Television is a good place to seek information.
Saturday Sweden’s PM and formal leader of the EU Fredrik Reinfeldt will come to Warsaw together with the president of the commission José Manuel Barroso and the spokesman of the EU parliament Jerzy Buzek att and witness the signing of the LT by the Polish president.
The political leaders of the EU member states will meet at the 29-20 October. The previous plan was to discuss names for the appointment of a EU president and “foreign minister” (it can still be on the agenda).
Reinfeldt has said that he not discussing footnotes before he has seen the ruling of the Czech constitution court. I do not expect president Klaus to take part, but instead that the Czech government to take part. It will be a moment for this government to explain to the rest what the situation is.
Mathiasen, Berlin
Complain about this comment
# 9.
ikamaskeip wrote:
"What I do know is that the 3 Protocols added to the Treaty of Lisbon after the first Eire Referendum rejected it were put in-place after 'ratification' by 20+ National Governments."
Changing the body of the constitution after signing would seem "debatable". However, if the sweeteners to get a Yes vote in Ireland only relate to them and other people's commitments don't change, it would seem to make little difference.
Of course if someone perceives they get an "advantage" out of additional protocols which alters balance at all, then there may be a point to address.
I doubt it would make any difference anyway, Brown would be on a plane with a rubber stamp within the hour if he needed to be to ensure this is forced through before the general election.
Complain about this comment
It is inconceivable that the Czech Republic will reject the Lisbon Treaty. After a long history of suffering under the Soviet regime it would be political suicide for the President to reject signing the treaty. For once the Czechs finally have the opportunity to join in the greater Europe.
Does anyone think that they will throw away that opportunity?
Complain about this comment
One of the positive things about president Klaus was, that he was always predictable.
He always disagreed with the Lisbon Treaty, he always said it publicly (similar to the public votes in France, Netherlands or Ireland). It was also clear that he will do anything possible to stop it, inside the legal possibilities of a president. He is still a representative of one substantial part of EU population which does not agree with the treaty.
So what is there so unpredictable?
Complain about this comment
I really like this chap. ^^
Complain about this comment
My understanding is that, providing the constitutional court rules in favour of the government and Lisbon, Klaus has no choice but to ratify in accordance with the measures already approved by the legislature. It seems to me that, by seeking at this late stage in the game to add footnotes or riders, apparently on his own initiative, he is deliberately seeking to muddy the waters. Maybe, in spite of his comments over the weekend about not delaying ratification, he is doing just that. Whether he has decided on reflection that he can play Cameron's game and hold everything up is not clear but if that is the game plan, Gavin's characterization of him as 'unpredictable' is some generous. Loose canon is the phrase that comes into my mind. Either way, I don't believe he is doing Cameron and the Tories any favours. The one thing that is needed now is a clear sense of direction and this can only complicate matters.
Complain about this comment
#47. At 05:44am on 09 Oct 2009, SuffolkBoy2 wrote:
"Could Klaus please insist on another condition i.e. that every "Ciitizen of Europe" should get their own copy of the treaty printed on a roll of absorbent paper about 6 or 7 inches high which is perforated about every seven inches?"
Only if UKIPs forthcoming election manifesto is also published in such a way...
Complain about this comment
How many popular votes, have been held on this Federalist treaty? Have the majority of the governed given their consent? US history tells us, that the constitution was "ratified" by the legislators of the 13 states. No popular vote was held. The civil war may have ended being remembered as a battle against slavery, but it began as an issuse of States Rights. All of these are being slowly imposed on the people of Europe. I hope your future battle for "states rights" is less bloody than ours. btw... states rights... lost.
Complain about this comment
Matonge@54: "It was also clear that he will do anything possible to stop it, inside the legal possibilities of a president."
Trouble is, by setting his own conditions (on whose mandate?) for signing the instrument of ratification of a treaty whose ratification has already been voted in Parliament, he's AFAIK clearly overstepping those legal possibilities and the Czech constitution.
proceednet@58: "The civil war may have ended being remembered as a battle against slavery, but it began as an issuse of States Rights."
And was thankfully won by those who thought that Human Rights are clearly above "State Rights". Thank you for so clearly putting Klaus and other assorted Europhobes in the same dustbin of history as the proponents of slavery and racial discrimination.
Complain about this comment
#47 - SuffolkBoy2 wrote:
"Could Klaus please insist on another condition i.e. that every "Ciitizen of Europe" should get their own copy of the treaty printed on a roll of absorbent paper about 6 or 7 inches high which is perforated about every seven inches?"
No but 15.24 - 17.78 cm and perforated every 17.78 cm may be possible.
Complain about this comment
Johan Heuvel:
I completely agree with your points but when you say "Why a president of a smaller nation is not signing this treaty it is beyond me." how does a smaller nation like the netherlands then vote down the initial treaty which was aimed more or less to achieve the same things as the LT?
Dazzini:
"The "Bigboys" will do as they please and no-one would stop them! YOU WILL BE IGNORED FULL-STOP! YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!!!"
Mate you are wrong any decision requires not onyl the majority in votes (which obviously the big boys could easly win) but also the majority of nations agreeing (65% or so) which for the EU would mean that 18 out of 27 nations have to agree.
Interesting that all those from the Czech republic here seem to be strongly pro EU by the way.
Complain about this comment
As mentioned, CZ has a charter of human rights incorporated into the constitution, so examination by the courts is a good idea.
Should anyone wish to actually read the Czech human rights law and compare it to Lisbon, the following link can be used to read the act in English.
http://vsp.blog.cz/0810/ceske-zakony-v-anglictine
It should really be noted that the treaty has been accepted by the Czech parliament.
Failure to sign by the president would be defying the democratically elected will of parliament. If parliament did not respond to this then the Czech republic could be viewed as undemocratic. This could get them thrown out of Europe altogether.
i am not sure if Klaus has really thought this through....
Complain about this comment
Its unbelievable that for everything that the European Union has done for Eastern Europe they can have any reason to be Eurosceptic. Their lives are infinitely better off than 20 years ago, they are now equal partners in the European family of nations and have a guarantee of security and democracy. This kind of petty nationalism and self-importance that Klaus represents is pathetic in this context.
Complain about this comment
@63 Megamalden
Precisely because of their past Communist sufferings, many Central and Eastern European regards the current Western European consensus (and often preaching) on European integration as mostly one-sided, rather than as a lively political debate.
There is no arguing that they see the EU as a good development for the economy, but the misconceived perception of the EU politics as "one party, one system" brings back nasty old memories to many of them ...
@42 StellarBeloved
Anger is of bad advice, that's for sure.
And though I was born by the end of the decolonisation period, I do not forget European responsibilities for their colonial past nor subsequent acts.
However, Afghanistan and Iraq colonial meddling was performed by English, then Russian and US governments ... it's hard to see what the EU got anything to do to take responsibility for, if not providing cover for the messes of others.
For those reasons, I can't help but find MA2 "analysis" stupid, if not self-serving hypocrisy.
No questions, there is plenty of blame to give to Continental Europeans. But at least, do it where it really belongs.
Best regards,
Complain about this comment
megalomaniac #63
Yes isn't it outrageous. Having been told they are equal partners, they actually have the hubris to act like equal partners by having a say equal to Ireland, France, and Holland. It was made clear to the newbies in the days leading up to the invasion of Iraq that France and Germany were running the EU when Mr. Chirac told them that if they didn't support his opposition to the invasion he would block their accession. Now that they not only have their foot in the door but are inside, they have the audacity to come to the buffet and take food and drink from the table the way the privileged senior members do. They just don't know their proper place do they? Well at least the people of Great Britain do and know the proper behavior that is expected of them. You don't see them putting up any opposition to approval of Lisbon do you?
Complain about this comment
Berlin,
Regrettably our Czech correspondents have not commented on the mandate issue of the president. The European press is writing that according to the Czech constitution the president has no mandate to negotiate treaties with the European Union. Instead the government has the mandate.
The French foreign minister Bernard Kouchner rules changes of the treaty out. The Swedish PM has said something similar to the president Klaus.
Complain about this comment
Remember Chesterton - But we are the people of England; and we have not spoken yet. Smile at us, pay us, pass us. But do not quite forget.
Take heart - Vaclav will not sign, there will be a rumpus over this winter, Cameron will grant us a vote in the summer. The unelected gnomes of Brussels will not get their treaty. And Gordon disappears for ever
__________________
Complain about this comment
ref: 53 Euroslider
Maybe they would like to be something other than a little fish in a big pond for a change. re Soviet Union and European Union. Seems like every nation should have a little time to do their own thing. I suppose then that the Czechs are seen as a takeover target as they say on Wall Street. Pity, that.
Complain about this comment
MAII and #65.
This is getting a tad worrying!
Your final bitingly accurate, sarcastic comment on the British attitude to Lisbon is so appropriate that the 'anti-EU' Brits such as myself feel decidedly exposed for our weak performance.
Well done.
Complain about this comment
If Mr. Klaus were smart he'd be in fear for his life. Extraordinary renditions and firing squads are nothing new to Europe. The USSR had no qualms about secretly executing the opposition in Poland during the invasion in 1939, the EUSSR will be no less ruthless. This dictatorship will be established legally with every "i" dotted, every "t" crossed, every required umlaut and cedilla inserted, every formality fully documented and met to the precise letter of the law. No one will be able to say after the fact that the EU should not be recognized as the rightful government of the people if not by the people or for the people of Europe.
Complain about this comment
#70. At 2:30pm on 09 Oct 2009, MarcusAureliusII wrote:
"If Mr. Klaus were smart he'd be in fear for his life. Extraordinary renditions and firing squads are nothing new to Europe.
True, but they are far more common in your beloved USA Marcus - in fact the only renditions (extraordinary or otherwise) that have occurred in europe in recent times have been at the behest or on behalf of the USA. As for capital punishment, it's getting on for 55 years since the UK last carried out a (civil) execution, France must be around the same time, Germany abolished capital punishment after the second world war (if I remember correctly), only in the USA have they (in effect) reintroduced such punishments, having all but abandoned the practice in the 1970s...
Complain about this comment
The hypocrisy of the Europhobes never ceases to amaze me.
Here we have this chap Klavel who compares the EU to the old Soviet Union and is himself behaving like an old tyrant or Soviet commissar, defying the will of the democratically elected Czech parliament and, not only that, deciding that it should be HIS OWN will, not that of the Czech people or the 26 other EU parliaments that ratified the LT, the one that should prevail, hence he is going to force his own will on the 26 EU countries that have – democratically – ratified the LT.
He is behaving like a crossover of a neo fascist and a spoilt, arrogant kid.
The same could be applied to (most of) the Europhobes in Britain. The only ones who makes sense, ironically, are the likes of UKIP and Hannan, precisely the ones that are dismissed by the Tories as loony. Let me be clear about this, I don't like this Hannan one bit but he is right when he says: "We are not in the business of stopping other EU countries from integrating. We just do not want to be part of that integration" (or similar). Fair enough. But the current stance of the Tories is. "We, the people of Little England, do not agree with the LT and, because we were promised a referendum, we want to sabotage the whole thing"
The only decent, democratic and grown up stance to have would be this:
"Listen, my dear fellows of Little England, 26 other EU countries – or their parliaments – have ratified the treaty. There is only this neo-fascist in Eastern Europe that is deciding to impose his will against his people and against the rest of the people of Europe. But otherwise, the treaty has been ratified. Not against the will of the people, because it has been ratified by parliaments who supposedly represent the people. Even in Little England, our beloved parliament ratified the Treaty. Mind you, this is peculiar because we think that our parliament, the one that we want to defend against the EU, was wrong. It is only when our own parliament agrees the things we like that we think it's democratic. Otherwise it is not. But let's not digress, my dear Little England. The LT has been ratified. We are legitimately entitled to say that we do not want to abide by it. But, on the other hand, it would be antidemocratic to overturn the will of 26 other EU countries. Therefore I am proposing, my dear Little England, to give you two options. Either we abide with the Lisbon Treaty or we don't, and in the latter case, we will do the only thing that we can do if we do not want to abide by the LT: Withdraw from the EU altogether."
But no, they just behave like the fascists they so vehemently denounce.
Complain about this comment
To MarcusAureliusII: I strongly recommend you stick to internal US matters as most of what you write on the European Union in particular and Europe in general is nonsense. Extraordinary renditions are an American institution. Here extradition has to go through the courts. As for firing squads, yes they existed in communist and fascist/nazi days but that is 20th century history as far as the EU goes. Though they do take place where US forces/special units operate, eg in Afghanistan or Iraq. Frankly, calling the EU a european version of the USSR is a disgraceful falsehood.
Mr Klaus's career started well back in the communist period with his training by the Soviets. He has never hidden his continuing affection for Moscow, whether in past or present form under an undemocratic authoritarian leadership. He even supported Putin over the latter's crushing of the Chechen revolts and the invasion of an independent Georgia. He is Moscow's man in central Europe.
As European integration with freedom of travel without internal borders, a single currency, a single economic market, democratically elected European and national Parliaments and improved efficiency are being realised, which will over time strengthen Europe, this is seen by Moscow as a direct threat to the recreation of its dictatorial empire, then Klaus as Moscow's "ally" is doing everything he can to sabotage EU integration. Fortunately he can be impeached under the Czech constitution (something that is lacking here in Poland where we have a Mr "NO" vetoing President of a similar mindset).
The Eu is currently made up of 27 member States with more waiting to join. Why? Because "united we stand, divided individually we fall". I am proud and pleased to be a citizen of the European Union. The time of the populist nationalistic State in Europe is past, together with the murderous results of such nationalism.
Complain about this comment
Boiled and plated;
As I recall, a recently released inmate of GITMO was interviewed by BBC. His assertion was that Britain was far more interested in him than the Americans were and I think it was the British officers who were the brutes who beat him during interrogations. (Could be wrong about that, can't quite remember such unimportant details.)
So it's been 55 years since there were executions for crimes in Europe. With the revelation of crimes where young girls were kidnapped, repeatedly raped for years, and even murdered, perhaps it's high time they resumed. Liberals can contend all they like about how capital punishment is no deterrent but as the recent release of the Lockerbie bomber proves, Europe's contention that a life sentence will be just as effective is nothing more than a pack of empty words.
GorgeJ1
The hypocricy of Europeans never ceases to amaze me. Having been ready and willing to surrender to the USSR to become part of that empire and take on the mantle of a Communst government, here they criticize a former communist leader who was given some power by his own "democratic government" for acting like one.
Complain about this comment
Ikeaship;
"the 'anti-EU' Brits such as myself feel decidedly exposed for our weak performance."
What makes you think your "performance" rises to the level of weak? From Munich in 1938 to Lisbon, the evident cultural instinct in the UK in the face of foreign domination seems to me to be to instantly surrender.
Complain about this comment
So, apparently what Klaus wants is to deny the Charter of Fundamental Rights to his fellow Czechs. This on the spurious (but sadly predictable) grounds that it would open the door to damage claims by the decendants of ethnic Germans who were expelled/murdered after WWII.
If I was Czech, I'd demonstrating against this usurper right now.
BTW, MAII, congratulations for your President's deserved Nobel Prize! As a proud American, you must be overjoyed today!
Complain about this comment
#65. MarcusAureliusII wrote:
"Yes isn't it outrageous. Having been told they are equal partners, they actually have the hubris to act like equal partners by having a say equal to Ireland, France, and Holland."
They had a say, what? Do you think no one was consulted when the treaty was written? It was drawn by the Commission and 27 national Governments, hence why its a bit messy. 27 Different countries had their say and all added, amended and took away little bits of it. I know it doesn't fit with your mental image of Barossa sat in a darkened room cackling malevolently as he draws up the Treaty that will doom Europe, but your mental image is entirely fictitious.
"They just don't know their proper place do they? Well at least the people of Great Britain do and know the proper behavior that is expected of them. You don't see them putting up any opposition to approval of Lisbon do you?"
Yes, you do, everywhere, spreading lies and misinformation mostly. What do you want them to do, riot and overthrow the Government? Over what is basically a democratic institution that doesn't have much effect on their everyday lives?
---------------------------------------------------------
#70 Marcus
"If Mr. Klaus were smart he'd be in fear for his life. Extraordinary renditions and firing squads are nothing new to Europe. The USSR had no qualms about secretly executing the opposition in Poland during the invasion in 1939, the EUSSR will be no less ruthless. This dictatorship will be established legally with every "i" dotted, every "t" crossed, every required umlaut and cedilla inserted, every formality fully documented and met to the precise letter of the law. No one will be able to say after the fact that the EU should not be recognized as the rightful government of the people if not by the people or for the people of Europe."
EUSSR? Firing Squads? Dictatorship? Is this it? Can anyone take this post seriously?
Complain about this comment
DidYouSeeWhatISawOnTheSeesawInWarsaw;
"Mr Klaus's career started well back in the communist period with his training by the Soviets."
Et tu Mike'. Censorship of those views you don't agree with was a hallmark of all totalitarian tyrannies of whatever stripe, Nazi or Communist. You reveal your heritage, you were trained well and that instinct will be with you for your entire life in all likelihood.
"I am proud and pleased to be a citizen of the European Union."
I am not in the least bit surprised. Just when the remnants of the Soviet gravy train that the USSR sent to subsidize its unwilling subjects ran out and things looked bleakest, a new gravy train pulled into the station with boatloads of taxpayer money from Britain, Germany, and other more affluent European nations to subsidize your failing economy. Not only that but when the train pulled out, it took millions of Poles and citizens of other new members with it to far off places like Britain where two thirds of a million Poles found employment and drove up housing costs. When all of the leaky pipes were fixed, the Poles got back on the train and left for Poland, leaving a mountain of empty housing which only added to the collapse of housing prices there. What are friends for anyway?
What I love most about Europeans is how they feel they can freely criticize America for both its foreign and domestic policies but then become incensed, even outraged when an American makes a derogatory comment about their countries. But what's good for the goose is good for the gander as they say. The fact that it bothers you only brings me encouragement that my words are read and have an effect. New experience hearing thoughts that challenge the popular wisdom? Troubling? That is what is supposed to happen in free democratic countries. Enjoy what little of it there is in Europe...while you still can. Once the EU monstrosity fails and people start to complain, you can be certain that public dissent will be suppressed just as it was in the USSR and its vassal states.
Complain about this comment
Malefactor;
"What do you want them to do, riot and overthrow the Government?"
Americans overthrew the British government when it became tyrannical. But then we're made of entirely different stuff.
Complain about this comment
#73 Marcus
"Americans overthrew the British government when it became tyrannical. But then we're made of entirely different stuff."
Where was the rioting at the illegal wiretaps? Why didn't you overthrow the Government over the Patriot Act? Where were the militias when George Bush got in despite not winning the popular vote? Americans are mostly just Europeans on a different continent, your Government is similar, your values are similar, your langauge is similar, you can say their not all you want, but your wrong Marc.
I say similar because we didn't have Freedom of Speech zones under out last leader, we don't illegally wiretap, and we don't have a version of Guantanamo bay and the sensible Euro Governments chose not to get involved the Iraq debacle.
Sort yourself out if your going to act like your perfect.
Complain about this comment
@78 MA2
Any commentators on that blog, or previously Mark Maredll's, would have long realized that you are mostly interesting in gratuitous offensive punch lines and outworldly analysis.
Maybe the mistake of many (I definitely count myself in), was to naively keep believing that at some point you earnestly wanted to better yourself in understanding the world, rather than just trolling around.
People can argue and disagree on opinions, but only intellectually dishonest individuals would purposefully misrepresent or deny factual truths.
No, contrary to your claims, you are not trying to share or learn : you are tired to be told of all the wrongs that hurt your nationalistic's pride, and you are now bound to enforcing a pseudo sense of justice, by shooting back (btw, it's called retribution or vengeance, not justice)... that's what you would expect from a scolded teen in need of self-respect, not a 50+ years old grown-up.
Guess your trolling days will just keep on going ... it's just too bad you are making such a disservice to your compatriots.
Best regards,
Complain about this comment
Aw shucks Starbucks, sounds like your feelings are getting hurt. What's the matter, I'm getting a little too hard on your side for your tender sensibilities? Can't take a few punch...lines? That's what I love about the other side, they can dish it out but they can't take anything. The slightest tap and they cringe. They aren't used to it. Well too bad, better get used to it because it isn't going away. Ain't payback a "B"???
"No, contrary to your claims, you are not trying to share or learn"
Where did I ever say that? All I said was I'm giving a single voice to another point of view. Even one such voice is more than your side can stand. Why? Because your side knows they're always wrong but won't tolerate hearing someone say it. I'm sure if it were up to you, every message I ever posted would have been deleted. Stalin would have agreed 100%.
Malefactor;
"Where was the rioting at the illegal wiretaps? Why didn't you overthrow the Government over the Patriot Act?"
Are you nuts? I was the one demanding its enactment. Where were you when 9-11 happened? I was less than 50 miles away but there were many days I was in those buildings. Where were you when the anthrax attack took place? I was maybe 10 miles away from that post office in Trenton when I crossed the Delaware on I-95 going to work every day. I want all those people caught and whatever information they have extracted from them no matter what it takes. I'll volunteer to go down to GITMO and waterboard them myself if I have to.
Complain about this comment
MAII and #75.
That's more like it: Thanks for reverting to your more usual uninspired and tedious 'anti' anything that breathes.
To paraphrase an American lady racconteur's precise observation: 'MarcusAureliusII commentary went through every emotion from A to B'
How you must hate yourself!
Especially as we on these Blog Articles who have long endured your pain with you have come to realise how sad your life is and though none of us could ever know the depths to which you have unfortunately sunk we all sympathise.
It must be the worst sort of degradation to find those you despise all know how you feel about yourself and they all feel for you in your unlimited hours, days, weeks... years of unrequited need to be a 'somebody'.
Complain about this comment
@MA2
Hopefully for me, I still can take quite a few punches, but hardly gets the time to leave myself drawn in empty fights with lazy slobs.
So keep kicking, you are only making a disservice to your compatriots.
And no, I wouldn't censor your posts, simply because I prefer to let them stand as evidences of your own immaturity.
Better to hold someone accountable for their own words, than to put one's words into someone's else mouth (as you like to do a lot @82 being the latest)
I don't ever remember refering you to moderation in the past 2 years. And yet, you've thrown out quite a lot of tantrums :)
Best regards,
Complain about this comment
Gavin Hewitt:
The lesson of today is this: You can never be entirely certain that President Klaus of the Czech Republic will sign the Lisbon Treaty until he actually does.
Yes, and, thanks for the important lesson and giving us the accurate information...
=Dennis Junior=
Complain about this comment
View these comments in RSS