Seasonal flu vaccine offers 'some protection'
Research from Mexico City published on BMJ.com suggests that the seasonal flu vaccine may offer some protection against swine flu, particularly the most severe complications of the disease.
The research team involved admits that the study has several limitations - and that the findings should be considered cautiously "and in no way indicate that seasonal vaccine should replace vaccination against pandemic influenza A/H1N1 2009".
Having put those markers down, it's nonetheless an interesting bit of research which needs further examination. The study was led by Dr Jose Luis Valdespino from Mexico and investigated the link between the 2008-9 seasonal flu vaccine with cases of influenza A/H1N1 during the epidemic in a speciality hospital in Mexico City.
The authors say the reason the seasonal vaccine seems to offer some protection is because it boosts existing antibodies in individuals who have previously been exposed to a similar flu virus, either by infection or vaccination.
They compared the health outcomes (hospitalisation, mechanical ventilation and death) of 60 patients with swine flu and 180 control patients with other diseases (note the small numbers). Both groups of patients informed the authors directly, by telephone or via a close relative whether they had received the 2008-9 seasonal flu vaccine.
The results suggest that the uninfected participants were significantly more likely to have received the seasonal flu vaccine and that it protected them against particularly severe forms of swine flu. However, the authors say the results must be taken in context and argue that given the small sample size "it will be key to conduct similar studies in other settings to confirm or refute our results."
In an accompanying editorial, Dr Menno de Jong from the Academic Medical Centre of the University of Amsterdam concurs with Dr Valdespino that the results do not mean that there is no need for a specific vaccine against swine flu.
So what is the take-home message? Well, if you have a seasonal flu jab every winter, there's just a chance that it might protect you against the complications of H1N1 swine flu.
But if you are in an at-risk group, you should not see this as an alternative to having a swine flu vaccine. Indeed, the majority of those who will be offered the swine flu jab this autumn will be asked to roll up both sleeves. In one arm, they will be given the H1N1 swine flu (pandemic) vaccine and in the other, the annual seasonal flu jab. Those at risk of complications of flu need both because there will be several strains of flu doing the rounds over the coming months.
Dr John McCauley from the National Institute for Medical Research in north London said:
"The results look interesting. There does seem to be some degree of protection from the seasonal flu vaccine but it's in an unusual age group, the 41-60-year-olds. In the young and old, it didn't seem to make a difference. It definitely does not mean that people should rely on the seasonal flu vaccine, especially since the pandemic vaccine will be rolled out shortly."
~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~54~RS~)
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Fergus, this bears out exactly what my family GP says he is seeing in the field. He is convinced that those who have regularly have seasonal flu jabs get much milder doses of swine flu without complications (assuming they get it at all). As he has a flu jab each year he believes that he will have some protection through it. He is also a staunch advocate of the swine flu vaccine.
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Very interesting Fergus-especially the 41-60 age group bit-I wonder if it's because of the same suspected reason as the over 60's-that this age group may have been exposed to a very similar flu virus over the years and as such, the vaccine 'tops up' the body's immune response to SF and flu generally?
Does anyone know any stats for people having SF who have had some sort of flu in the past which measures the severity of their SF symptoms?
Absolutely fascinating how immune systems work, I think!
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Tiger, my GP certainly thinks there is a link between the fact that older people have swine flu immunity and the fact that the seasonal flu vaccine offers some protection. And of course in the UK at any rate the over 65s will be the main group offered the seasonal flu jab.
I've replied to your comments about CP on the previous topic. Such a minefield!
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Angel-thanks for the CP comments-I hope I did offend you-I wasn't criticising. Like you say, CP is a minefield-would be great if there was some way of producing a vaccine for it which would give life long immunity. It's really the last of the childhood nasties which needs tackling. Some brilliant medical research team is probably working on this as we speak! There really are some amazingly clever people about!
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Tiger, why on earth would you have offended me? Our points of view are based on personal experiences - I am profoundly glad that I had CP as a teenager because it (in my opinion) saved my boy's life, but I can see why you believe in vaccination. I also have a natural immunity to rubella which is fortunate as my parents declined the jab for me as a teenager - I'd been diagnosed with it as an infant but I now know that so many other rashes look like rubella, it could have been anything! I think even if they did produce a CP vaccine with lifelong immunity, parents would need some persuading that it was necessary. With sf, many of us are weighing up whether or not the risks of the illness are more serious than the vaccine side effects even though we know children have died from swine flu. Very few parents regard CP as anything other than a mild illness (as said, people are still having 'chicken pox parties', which astonishes me) and I think many will decline it, meaning there won't be herd immunity. A targeted CP vaccination programme of adults and young women of child bearing age would make a huge amount of sense too, but I don't think many would bother.
I still think I should have an MMR jab, but I can't afford to take time out if it makes me feel unwell. Vaccines without side effects...now that would be amazing!
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It's a well-worn story that you hear in workplaces and pubs a lot, but in my case it's absolutely true - the only year I ever had a flu jab I had flu on and off all winter. Caledonian Comment
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I've thought this was probably the case for a while and offers a much more scientifically satisfactory explanation of why over 65's seemed to have some degree of immunity to Swine Flu.
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This is very interesting Fergus. I am 51 and have had a flu vaccine most years for the last 30 years. This is not because I am at high risk but due to the work i do and the countries I travel too - don't want to be sick when away from home in Africa and the Far East. Unlike other posters, the only year so far that I have had any form of flu (two weeks flat on my back unable to do anything) was the year I missed the jab! Still uncertain about the swine flu jab but as I am not in the frontline for this it will probably be the new year before I have to make a decision.
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Gillie, I'm in the same boat and I suspect that by the New Year vaccination will be far less of a priority; in fact I wonder if they will even still be recommending it.
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That's really interesting, and also slightly comforting for me, although I'm not old enough to be in the age group they quote as being most effective. But I guess it does make a lot of sense - swine flu is going to have some proteins in common with other flus that have been in previous vaccines, so maybe we're partially "primed" against it from that.
I'll still line up for my vaccine(s) though. Does that mean they're definitely giving them both at once? Any news on the one versus two dose decision? Still not heard anything from my GP about it. Although my practice don't actually call under 65's in for seasonal flu jabs as they don't get paid extra for hitting targets on any of the other groups, so I don't actually have any confidence that they'll actually invite anybody for swine flu jabs, since over 65s aren't in the first wave!
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Thanks for the information, Fergus.
Unfortunately of no help to the great majority of people. We will not be allowed access to either swine flu or seasonal flu vaccines - but we will be expected to pay taxes to fund both the vaccines and the extra £100,000,000 going into GP pay packets.
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It's probably not true that the majority of patients will roll up both sleaves to receive the two vaccinations at the same time. The seasonal flu vaccination campaign is already well underway in many practice and the swine flu vaccine is still weeks away. In our practice for example we have already vaccinated more than 50% of the people who we will be offering swine flu vaccine to later on. We certainly wouldn't be waiting for the swine flu vaccine to arrive before we gave the seasonal vaccine.
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Practice-Manager - "The seasonal flu vaccination campaign is already well underway in many practice"? really? I've seen absolutely no information about the seasonal flu vaccination campaign this year. Nada. Nothing.
Because I'm not an over 65, my practise don't *tell* me when they start vaccinating, I have to figure it out from the ether (because I understand that they only get paid by how many over-65s they get vaccinated, so there's no incentive for them to waste money on letters to other at-risk groups). And no, there's nothing on their website, it gets updated about once a year if we're lucky. And if I search for "flu" or "flu vaccine" on the nhs websites, I just get inundated with swine flu information.
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Oxford_sf. Explaining the funding arrangements for seasonal flu jabs is beyond the scope of a short blog entry. Suffice it to say that your practice would be at least as well funded to provide flu jabs to at-risk patients under 65 years old as they are for patients who are over 65 and who have no clinical risk. The call/recall systems in place at each practice can vary greatly so I can't comment on your experience. Suffice it to say I have already ordered my seasonal vaccine for 2010-11, I know the week it is due to arrive and I know how we will call patients and the clinic arrangements we'll use. If your practice seems a bit less organised why not ring them?
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Practice-Manager: I took your advice and rang my practice. Sadly they are a lot less organised than you and basically told me "Why should we waste time telling patients when flu vaccinations are in, you can find out by coming in to the practice - we have lots of posters up". Well, I've actually been avoiding going in because I don't want to be exposed to people with flu... even though I really ought to get a check-up - I've been waiting until I can be vaccinated given my last bad experience with flu which laid me low for months!
At least I have an appointment for a seasonal jab now, which I wouldn't have if you hadn't commented and pointed out that they were being given, so you've really helped! Although I'm going to have to keep an eye on this blog to know when the swine flu jabs go out, because I specifically asked, and she said they wouldn't tell us about those either. Pathetic!
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Sorry, but I don't think its pathetic at all. We all need to take personal responsibility rather than expecting the practice to contact us. You only needed to make a call to find out what's going on. I apy for my seasonal flu vaccinations and so visit a travel clinic - they will always tell you when the seasonal vaccine is in and ready.
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Although preliminary and on low numbers, I have to say these results and anecdotal evidence are comforting and the glimmer of hope they offer has raised my state of mind - which can only be a good thing for my immunity!
Oxford, I've been having the flu jab for the past 12 years since I was hospitalised to treat bacterial pneumonia. I have asthma and use a variety of inhalers, have been known to get as many as 4 bacterial chest infections a year and I have been prone to bronchitis. I've had three different GP practices who all know my records and I have never been invited in for my vaccine.
This doesn't bother me as I make a call to the practice every August to find out when the vaccines are being delivered and when they think they'll get started. I then call a bit closer to that date to secure an appointment or, more recently, turned up at the very end of a drop-in clinic and didn't have to wait long or expose myself to a queueful of germs.
I think our GPs support such a vast number of us that it isn't much to ask us to take some responsibility for our own wellbeing and seek to inform ourselves. I hope and trust that for the truly vulnerable who may not be equipped to do so, my GP practice must have records and send a reminder to them/a named other.
Interestly, my GP doesn't yet know when the SF vaccines will be coming in. I'm guessing they may arrive at such short notice as soon as they are released that there wouldn't be time to start scheduling appointments in amongst actually giving the vaccines.
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Hmm. Our ptractice has no problem issuing invites for jabs, they even have 'fluathons' with tombolas and cake stalls during which people can get their jabs!
By the looks of things those of us without underlying health issues aren't necessarily even going to be offered the vaccine now, including children.
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I suppose it's 'off message' to point out that there is documentary evidence that Baxter vaccine carries mercury and squalene within it? That H1N1 has been patented by a company who strangly are not the same company making the vaccine. However, thats the least of the problem, look at what they make... afraid?
http://www.reuters.com/article/hotStocksNews/idUSTRE58K4BZ20090921
When will the majority wise up about what's going on right now? Don't you think it's more than a coincidence that amongst being scared to death about H1N1 (although seasonal flu affects and kills far more than H1N1 has); we're bombarded with more rules and regulations about what you can and cannot do with your lives-leaving your kids for instance with friends?
Don't you think it odd that if this flu virus is so terrible, medical workers in the USA would be queuing up to take it? Well, no,(see below) they're being obliged to take it or effectivelly lose their jobs--yet personnel are being advised by their immediate bosses NOT to take it, as are the doctors tasked with administering it! These doctors are signing off the documentation as having been taken, when in fact they're not. Why? Ask the questions..do the research. My partners thirty year old daughter,a school teacher, took ill with swine flu last week..and was taken to a centre where she was given tamiflu..This week, she'd been admitted into A & E, suspected meningitis, thankfully discounted. Ask yourself, why the official stance on H1N1, when theres barely a mention of seasonal flu-that too is caught all over the world, it isn't just restricted to the UK. It's important to know that H1N1 and H5N1 aren't naturally occuring viruses, they've been manufactured in a lab, for a reason.
I AM IN EMS. WE WHERE “ORDERED” TO TAKE H1N1. (or can’t treat patients=no job) EVERYONE, including the EMS MEDICAL DIRECTOR knows it’s all nonsense. WE ARE LUCKY. AND I HOPE MORE PLACES ARE LIKE MINE. WE GOT NO SHOT, BUT GOT PAPER WORK SAYING WE DID!!!!!!! It wasn’t a small group of us “cheating” the system. It was well orchestrated from the very TOP. The DOCS in charge Have our back. if EVERYONE does things like this all over the country with this and the other issues, the system will not have control.
Ask the questions.
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Okay well.. Ignore this... Define real guy. Not worth your time. H1N1 not a naturally occuring virus?!?! H5N1 not a naturally occuring virus? Really?! Sorry bud but.... They were there hundreds of years before laboratories had the ability to even analyze a flu virus. No answer? Thought not. Go back to infowars/prison planet.
Anyway. Cases declining in Scotland, barely rising in England, looks good.
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Prison Planet? Don't have to go near that ego maniac Skyline! But, if you can come up with a rational explanation how human influenza can mix with bird flu from the USA, swine flue from Asia AND Europe, I'm all for it!It is after all genomes of DNA/RNA and proteins. Ask yourself; why would a company that manufactures chips that are injected into humans, patent a virus?
Why is a virus we were initially told was virrulant not ring fenced by keeping kids off school as a matter of course when they get an outbreak? No better way of spreading it is there not? Viruses are self limiting, they die easily outside the host, or they don't, we were told H1N1 is contageous, seems odd to encourage it's spread? (Although, as you said, that data seems not to be borne out so far by the actual statistics)
The key is the vaccine.
But, when all said and done, it's your choice.
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Oh no I thought we'd got away from all the wild conspiracy theories on these blogs. Define_real please read all the linked blogs here before you put your ill-defined views across. Your posts make no logical sense and you really shouldn't put them into the public domain without being able to set out your views sensibly and develop your argument clearly. If you want anyone to begin to see your point of view at the very least stop typing in capital letters and using so many exclamation marks. Yeah I'm with you Skyline, chilled yet observant.
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Perhaps I should have made it clear. The caps on the message were part of a quote..Not my words. As for the rest, I make no apologies. I thought my 'argument' was self evident, but if you don't see a correlation I don't know how else to spell it out.
take care. :-)
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It seems to me that there are commentators on this blog who are not interested in reading anything to the detriment of the swine flu vaccine .. In fact they actively put down anyone who ofers information helping to widen their views as coming direct from conspiracy forums.
This is a public forum so if you do not agree with someone then please do not try to convert them to yours.
It is a fact that one of the vaccines contain thimerol (mercury) and if you don't know about squalene then google it. I know it is not going into my body.
The FDA are being sued in the US by a health campaign attorney for not conducting proper tests on the vaccine .. This would be in direct violation of Federal law.
There is a wealth of information on the links I have posted before ... and they are certainly not conspiracy sites .. However it is up to all of us to make up our own minds .. and leave other people to theirs ..
I will be taking 1000iu of Vitamin D3 daily and drinking Una De Gato (Cat's Claw) tea all winter .. If anyone of us posting on this blog catches SF then let us share our experiences and what measures (if any) we had taken to counteract getting it .. and any measures taken during having the flu to counteract the symptoms ... Let's do our own study :-)
Good health.
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Well said WasitovertheLine!
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I am afraid of getting injections. Is there any other means by which I can get vaccinated.
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