Vaccines for swine flu
Plans to vaccinate millions of people in Britain against H1N1 swine flu have taken a step forward today. The European Medicines Agency (EMEA) has approved Pandremrix, manufactured by GlaxoSmithKline (GSK) [36Kb PDF].
A licence won't be granted until it's been approved by the European Commission, but that is expected in the next couple of weeks. GSK is one of two suppliers of pandemic vaccine to the UK, the other being Baxter. But its vaccine did not get approved today. The EMEA said that there had been an issue about the quality of the vaccine, but that they hoped to resolve that next week. The Baxter vaccine is not made using eggs, so it will be useful for those rare people with an anaphylactic reaction to egg.
The UK has contracts for up to 132 million doses of pandemic vaccine - enough for everyone in Britain to receive two shots. But early data suggests one jab may be sufficient. This is what the EMEA had to say on this:
"The Committee is currently recommending a two-dose vaccination schedule, at an interval of three weeks, for adults, including pregnant women, and children from six months of age. The Committee acknowledged that there are preliminary data suggesting that one dose may be sufficient in adults. The Agency is expecting further data from ongoing clinical studies over the coming months and these recommendations may be updated."
It should mean that Britain is on track to begin begin an immunisation campaign next month. Just a reminder of which groups will be vaccinated first. Here's the list, in order of priority:
• individuals aged six months and up to 65 years in the current seasonal flu vaccine clinical at-risk groups
• all pregnant women, subject to licensing considerations on trimesters
• household contacts of immunocompromised individuals
• people aged 65 and over in the current seasonal flu vaccine clinical at-risk groups
So how many people will that involve? Getting figures for the whole of the UK means contacting four separate health departments, which is why very often, you will see only the figure for England. My understanding is that the total is 11.45 million people for the UK (9m England; 1.3m Scotland; 0.75m Wales; 0.4m Northern Ireland). In addition, more than two million frontline health workers will be immunised in tandem with the above groups.
The government now has an agreement with GPs to vaccinate the at-risk groups. But this will take a huge amount of organisation, especially since the seasonal flu campaign will continue.
There are many questions which arise from the planned immunisation campaign, not least how big the uptake will be. NHS staff members have a very poor record of taking the seasonal flu jab, with only 16% uptake.
Many pregnant women may also be loath to have the jab and rather hope for the best that they don't get the virus, and that if they do, get it mildly. Pregnant women are at elevated risk of both catching swine flu and getting complications. In order to carry a child through pregnancy, the body's immune system is naturally suppressed.
The first person to die from complications of swine flu in June was a 38-year-old woman in Scotland who'd given birth prematurely. She had underlying health conditions. And remember Sharon Pentleton? She got swine flu when six months pregnant and had to be flown to Sweden for specialist treatment. Fortunately, she is now recovered and her baby is due next month.
Both of those cases are extreme examples. The vast majority of pregnant women who catch swine flu will have a mild infection. But the expert advice is that they should be immunised. What is not clear yet is how early in the pregnancy it will be recommended and whether or whether it will be restricted to women who are in the second and third trimesters (that is, from three months onwards).
The final recommendation on timing rests with the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (a sort of NICE for vaccines). I've been looking at the minutes of their meeting in August [63Kb PDF] and it gives an idea of what they are thinking on this:
"The committee supported the use of either vaccine once licensed in pregnant women. The committee noted that many women are advised not to take any kind of drug in their first trimester unless recommended by a medical practitioner. The committee advised that all pregnant women, including those in their first trimester, could receive the vaccine. Both swine flu vaccines are inactivated and there is no evidence that the foetus is at any risk when the mother is immunised with an inactivated vaccine such as the seasonal flu vaccine. Seasonal flu vaccines have been used for a number of years in the US with no evidence of harm. The committee noted that vaccinating pregnant women would not only provide benefit to them but also provide benefit to the infant, when born, through vertical transfer of maternal antibodies."
The JCVI also sees no reason why you can't have your pandemic flu jab at the same time as a seasonal flu vaccine. This is what they had to say on that:
"The committee advised that since the swine influenza vaccines are inactivated, they could be co-administered with all other vaccines including seasonal influenza and childhood vaccines. Vaccines should be given at separate sites, preferably in different limbs. If given in the same limb, they should be given at least 2.5 cm apart."
So what will the government do with all those extra vaccines, once the at-risk groups are immunised? My hunch is that they may decide to offer the jab to all children, not just to those who are at risk of complications. But that decision does not need to be taken now, and instead officials will wait to see how the virus behaves in the months ahead.
~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~54~RS~)
I'm 
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Fergus: Has there ever been or can there ever be, any speculation, or notion from anyone in the know about how this virus may develop, or is it too impossible to say?
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Fergus, please, please, please can you get a breakdown of exactly what conditions are considered at risk enough to warrant getting the flu vaccine? What if you're not on a list and you should be? How do you know-particularly if you've changed doctors like I have?
I've only ever once been offered seasonal flu vaccine once-that was in Scotland 11 years ago!
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Oh, Tinkerbell, you still worrying about sf mutating? I really, really don't think it's going to happen. If anything I would have thought it will burn out soon because there will be so much immunity - it's almost too successful for its own good. One thing I can guarantee is that if you put together a room full of experts they will all come up with different answers, and if you try googling you'll not only get them but all the fruitcakes, too. FWIW the most recent report I've read said that sf is nowhere near as dangerous as had been thought possible and that much of what has been done globally is an overreaction. This was from a virologist in the US and he's not going to be saying that if he thought it was going to mutate any time soon. Also it seems that although my medical friends are expecting a busy Autumn they are no longer expecting a mutated form of sf, which they were told to prepare for when the outbreak first happened.
Okay, so take a reality check. You've almost certainly had sf, which means your children have had exposure and could well have developed antibodies, so they probably don't need a vaccine urgently. What's happening now? Sf isn't mutating, is showing no signs of mutating, and is no more likley to merge with avian flu than any other type of flu. I mean, it's theoretically possible but then so is Planet Earth getting hit by an asteroid, and I'm guessing that doesn't keep you awake at night. Just live in the moment, it's all we have.
Tiger, I agree, it is important to know to what extent GPs will be allowed to use their discretion or whether there is a proscribed list of conditions that will only be allocated the vaccine. At least Glaxo has the first batch out.
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I have ashtma I also was diagnosed with swine flu a few months back. Symptoms were not severe I remember real bad flu and being whacked out for 5 days- this was not as bad nowhere near. . I have had the seasonal Flu vac for the last 5 years no side effects and no Flu.
I also have anaphylactic reactions with no specific cause- 3 in the last 2 years.
For my weird immune system I suppose there is a risk in anything I ingest.
Tough call for a parent . I think if I am offered the jab I will take it on the basis that previous jabs have been OK. Also this may mutate and the jab may offer a bit of protection
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OK, I'm new to these board, so please be nice - but I'm a researcher by trade, so I thought I'd search out the list of conditions that warrant getting the flu vaccine.
I don't think I can post links to pdfs here can I?
So go here: http://www.immunisation.nhs.uk/Library/News/Search?terms=&stags=+influenza and click on "Influenza Campaign 09/10", which is a pdf. Annex 5 (last 2 pages) contains a handy table of the clinical risk groups (Fergus could make a whole blog post out of it!)
Anyway, for those who want the breakdown, I'll give it here anyway:
Bear in mind that all of this comes with the caveat that GPs *are* allowed to use clinical judgement if they have other patients who are seriously ill. Also, all of the examples given are based on clinical judgement.
1) Chronic respiratory disease and asthma that requires continuous or repeated use of inhaled or systemic steroids or with previous exacerbations requiring hospital admission. Examples: Chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD) including chronic bronchitis and emphysema; bronchiectasis, cystic fibrosis, interstitial lung fibrosis, pneumoconiosis and bronchopulmonary dysplasia (BPD), Children who have previously been admitted to hospital for lower respiratory tract disease
2) Chronic heart disease. Examples: Congenital heart disease, Hypertension with cardiac complications, Chronic heart failure, Individuals requiring regular medication and/or follow-up for ischaemic heart disease
3) Chronic renal disease. Examples: Chronic renal failure, Nephrotic syndrome, Renal transplantation
4) Chronic liver disease. Examples: Cirrhosis, Biliary artesia, Chronic hepatitis
5) Chronic neurological disease. Examples: Stroke, Transient ischaemic attack (TIA). There is also a note about considering the needs of patients with multiple sclerosis and related conditions, or hereditary and degenerative disease of the central nervous system.
6) Diabetes. Examples: Type 1 diabetes, Type 2 diabetes requiring insulin or oral hypoglycaemic drugs, Diet controlled diabetes
7) Immunosuppression. Examples: Immunosupression due to disease or treatment, Patients undergoing chemotherapy leading to immunosuppression, Asplenia or splenic dysfunction, HIV infection, Individuals treated with or likely to be treated with systemic steroids for more than a month at a dose equivalent to prednisolone at 20mg or more per day (any age) or for children under 20kg a dose of 1mg or more per kg per day, some immunocompromised patients may have a suboptimal immunological response to the vaccine
Hope that's helpful. In terms of some of the specifics that people have asked about - obesity definitely isn't covered unless there are other related conditions (e.g. diabetes), but rheumatoid arthritis may well be under the "immunosupression due to disease or treatment" heading. Of course, it is down to the GP's clinical judgement to a certain extent - in particular I guess that if you're not on regular meds, you may not cross the "radar", as I know that one way that they put people on the list is at medication reviews (that's when they check I'm on as I have severe asthma).
Personally, I can't wait for the jab to become available, as I had normal flu at Christmas (must have been a strain that wasn't in the jab), and then got a chest infection that had me on antibiotics and steroids for weeks. Took me over 3 months to get back to normal lung function again, even though I was over the actual viral flu infection in about 4-5 days (darn out-of-area GP wouldn't give me Tamiflu when I needed it, and now they're handing it out like sweeties! - not that I'm bitter - oh no). And I'm currently living/working in a university, just waiting for an influx of students from across the globe, with "fresher's flu" an annual occurrence here anyway, pandemic or no.
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Oxford -thank you so much for the info. I've made an appointment to see my GP next week and also seeing my immunologist on 6th Oct, so hopefully be able to clear this up for me personally. Years ago I had chicken pox pneumonia , and then 'flu caused another lung infection. As it's the one and only time I've had flu I really don't want to get sick that badly again. I have mild asthma, attacks are induced by cold weather and exercise so this is coming to a bad time of year for me. Add that to the Lupus and my health is an interesting mix to say the least!
By the by, everyone on here is very kind and helpful. There may be an odd fiery one now and again, but there's a real sense of community here. I joined in a couple of months back and had my worries well and truly assuaged by the kindness, thoughtfulness and information of others on here. My only sadness is that this blog's on a limited time frame-once SF goes away there will be no need for it anymore. I will miss the conversations a lot!
Know what you mean about freshers 'flu-something similar happens in schools in the autumn term. As the longest term of the year I think children and teachers get so exhausted they catch every bug going by Christmas. Most teachers (and GP's strangely) are always sick over Christmas as a result of adrenaline down time!
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Does anyone know how the vaccination program is going to be handled in schools?
I would like to know what the procedure will be. Will children who need the vaccine have to go to their doctors or will it be done in school?
Will it be up to schools to get consent forms sent out or will forms be delivered directly to vulnerable peoples homes?
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Angel, lol, you see right through me, even though the last comment Fergus made was re watching how the virus will bahve in the months ahead, I still couldnt post that question and get away with it. ;-)
Thanks for the info though, and from the other posters.
Me worry about asteroids? Pah, Never! lol
(I have control issues!!) lol XXX
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Lol, Tinkerbell! :-) I read Fergus's last comment re watching how the virus behaves as meaning that it might not be necessary to roll out the vaccination programme for everyone, and that they wouldn't vaccinate children unless they thought they needed to (probably on cost grounds as much as anything else.)
Hope you're having a good weekend xxx
Tiger, I agree it will be a shame when this blog ends. But I guess we have to hope that it's no longer needed very soon.
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Granny, had our nation's children been first on the list, I would have thought the vaccinations would have been along the lines of the MMR mop up campaign some years ago-basically consent was taken as given, unless parents opted their children out of it. I had a serious problem over this with my daughter as I posted some time back.
However, as only those children in a designated 'vulnerable' group will be vaccinated, then I doubt if schools will be doing it-I suspect the GP's will be-my logic suggests that only GP's will have definitive info on which children have/haven't been vaccinated, and to try to do this via schools will be a nightmare. But then......who knows?!
The government haven't yet broadcast the finer detail of the eligible groups/illnesses, so chaos will reign supreme I think! I fully expect to see hoards of angry people being paraded across TV news programmes and newspapers who feel they or their children should have been vaccinated, but were missed/refused. This will be the next media feeding frenzy unless it's headed off at the pass with the broadcast of greater detail.
Even so, even if this info is broadcast (and it should have been a long time ago) there will still be those who think they should have been first, but a lot less than is currently likely. This info could have been broadcast already, or even as part of the news slot on the vaccine being approved.
This is essential information but I can only think it hasn't been publicised yet to avoid too much aggravation too soon. Daft really. Perhaps there is a concern that if people get to know too soon they will make a case to their GP and get the vaccine, possibly in such numbers as to leave others in the priority groups without it.
Just thinking out loud, as I can't think of any other reason for keeping a low profile on this.
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I woudl think that people who feel vulnerable are already on to their GPs wanting to reserve their jab. I guess that the assumption is that people know if they get a seasonal flu jab or not, and if they don't normally, they won't get the sf jab either. But my GP spreads his flu jab net rather wide and I think that there will be a lot of people who get the seasonal flu jab for relatively minor problems who won't be offered the sf vaccine at first. You can make a very good case for so many conditions from ear infections to health anxiety. I agree that it's likely that individual stories will get exploited in the media - also look out for stories about side effects. That said, I think the authorities are also banking on a low uptake so that other groups will be offered the vaccine sooner rather than later.
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IMHO there will only be the mass panic and angry people you describe if we have a huge media frenzy and scaremongering again. Most people know that this flu is very mild and it is only in a few cases that people get really ill. Having done a straw poll of freinds and neighbours, even those who might be eligible have decided they probably won't take the vaccine due to the mild nature of the illness.
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Gillie - that seems like a sensibly thought-out response of your neighbours. If they don't think they're at a high risk of complications (they're likely to be aware of this from previous experience), then it's a personal choice. For myself, I know that the risk of complication is pretty high (although probably lower than seasonal flu), and the worst I'm likely to get from the jab is a swollen sore arm, so I've got nothing to lose.
I do wish there was a better timeline being given out though. From reading the link at the top of Fergus' post, it looks like the manufacturers of Pandemrix don't advise giving it at the same time as other vaccinations (or at least, haven't got any evidence about doing so, so they don't want to say anything about it). But everything I've heard so far has indicated that they would be giving the swine flu and seasonal flu jabs at the same time. I wonder if they're going to change those plans, and if/when they plan to tell us poor people so that we can make appointments? Does that mean we'll need three separate appointments (for 2 swine flu jabs and one seasonal one)? I've noticed high street chemists are already offering "flu vaccinations" (I assume seasonal ones), but not heard anything from GP yet about flu clinics, and there's nothing to be found about it on the normal NHS websites to indicate that they've started seasonal flu vaccination on the NHS.
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Focetria vaccine:
Excipients:
thiomersal 0.05 milligrams
This is MERCURY - a highly toxic poison. Most flu vaccines have it in (it may help the vaccine bind to the blood cells). There are many other reason why we should NOT have the vaccine.
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Course david, of course. Its the jews you see. Obama and the NWO, with the mayan texts and the suns position in relation to saturn, i think the reptilian freemasons have a hand in this FEMA led plot to rid the earth of 5 billion people with flu shots.... Watch for the black helicopters!
man im so glad i believe conspiracy nuts over the several million doctors/scientists and researchers involved with influenza treatment and prevention.
We dont want or need your kind here, please vacate so we can discuss real issues....
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To be fair to david, both vaccines do contain thimerosal as a preservative (to stop bacteria contaminating the vaccine between doses, as it's provided in a multi-dose form), and thimerosal is a mercury compound. However, it is a tiny amount - that 0.05 milligram is (if I've read the information right) per 10 adult doses, or 20 child doses.
Thimerosal has been used in vaccines (including childhood and infant vaccines) for decades, and there is no evidence that it is any more dangerous than any other mercury exposure that you might encounter in normal daily life. Like, say, eating some fish products or having fillings.
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My daughter had an allergic reaction to her DTP vaccine. I was told at the time that it was due to the mercury and I believe that mercury has been removed from the new DTP vaccine (is it Hib they've added?) Anyway, IMO it wasn't the mercury that caused the reaction but the pertussis part of the vaccine.
Personally I don't like the idea of being injected with mercury, or anything else come to that, but then we live in a world where people are happy to have injections of stuff derived from the bacteria that causes botulism just so they don't have a few wrinkles. I wonder how many people who are happy to have Botox will worry about the safety of the flu vaccine? Anyway, we are all full of toxic substances because we surround ourselves with poisons on a daily basis, in our food, our clothes our furnishings, the air we breathe.
Lol, Skyline, good to have you back! :-)
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Fergus, the problem of swine flu vaccines appears to be very complex and involves certain hazards hardly mentioned in every day media news.
Please read my article published at this link and visit other links provided.
[Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]
I think that governments and armies of European countries should exercise great caution regarding all decisions about swine flu pandemic.
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It's not just the neuro-toxin mercury that we should be worried about in the vaccine. It's also the aluminium and the squalene adjuvant. Both are immuno-suppresants in their own right and therefore counter-productive to fighting infection. Why rely on artificial means to fight low-level infections like flu, when you can use commonsense and plenty of nature's ingredients (Vitamins D3 and C, elderberry extract, echinacea, goldenseal root, etc) to prevent and combat the lurgy.
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what a load of utter rubbish, swine flue vaccine. if it is equivalent to the common cold or seasonal flue, why are we having all these vaccinations? surely it implies we should have had vaccinations against seasonal flue a long time ago, logically. are they trying to placate the public, seen to be doing something? surely it s far far better to give everyone vitamin d3 and boost the immune system. unless they know something they are afraid to tell us. I won't go within ten miles of a flue vaccination!!! the crisis is created by the WHO and the pharmaceutical giants as far as I can see and silly governments!!!!!
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but why this vaccine? if swine flue is only the same virulence as seasonal flue, why was seasonal flue not given the same importance as thus swine flue? thus seems to be a absolute contradiction. if we have all put up with flue for so many decades why not treat this new flue the same, and simply let nature create its own immunity. it makes absolutely no sense!!!
instead of injecting and ingesting poisons, why do we not simply take more vitamins, d and d3 and c, and eat a healthy diet?
I am sure if someone has UNDERLYING HEALTH problems that is fine, but for most simply let this illness take its course.
unless the governments of the world suspect something they are afraid to tell us? or have some secret agenda?
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may I be allowed to suggest these links. whilst they make interesting reading and give much food for thought, I would be very circumspect in believing some of what they say. again use your own judgment, and sense of logic. they have made me think a bit though....
http://theflucase.com/
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=theme&themeId=7
http://www.infowars.com/
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