Exercising the politicos
Nick Clegg appears to have a certain regard for the way Parliamentary matters are handled in Scotland.
For example, his revised plans on how to force a dissolution within the proposed new fixed terms at Westminster seem to be modelled on the Holyrood system.
Indeed, he drew the comparison himself when making his statement on upcoming reforms in the Commons.
But that regard, it seems to critics, goes only so far.
Unwarranted complication
Mr Clegg is intent on holding a referendum on changing the way MPs are elected. He intends that referendum to be held on 5 May next year.
Ring any bells for you? It happens to be my mother's birthday - but it is another clash of dates which is exercising the politicos.
The fifth of May is, of course, the scheduled date for the next elections to the Scottish Parliament.
There are those who say this clash is an unwarranted complication. There are those who say it is an insult to Holyrood. For respect, read contempt, they argue.
Mr Clegg acknowledged these concerns but argued that the public wouldn't wear umpteen trips to the polling stations, that a conjoined ballot would save money and that the good people of Scotland and elsewhere were perfectly capable of handling multiple electoral choices.
Electoral attention
This issue has produced a remarkable concatenation of views. SNP Ministers and their Labour counterparts at Holyrood both resent the Clegg timetable - and have said so.
They point out that the Holyrood elections had to be uncoupled from local elections following evident problems which emerged at the counts.
Further, they argue that changing the voting system for the Commons requires the complete and sole attention of the electorate.
It would be transformational, they argue, and should not be subsumed within another big electoral choice.
Intriguing prospect
Actually, there is a potential clash with the next Holyrood elections too; those scheduled for 2015. (I know, I know, one thing at a time but bear with me.)
If there is to be a fixed Parliament at Westminster, then the next UK election would be on 7 May 2015, the date laid down for the next.......you're ahead of me.
UK Government sources are indicating that they would be amenable to that one being sorted through the Holyrood Presiding Officer using his powers under Section 2 (5) of the Scotland Act to request that the Holyrood poll be moved by one month either way in 2015 (and every second decade when such a clash arises.)
Which, for the astute, instantly generates an intriguing prospect.
If the row at Holyrood is sufficiently intense, would the PO come under pressure to make such a request for next year as well in order to avoid clashing with the referendum?
I'm 
~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~45~RS~)
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One wonders how much taxpayers' money went to pay for the Gould report and why we commission such inquiries if we are not going to heed the advice.
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"following evident problems which emerged at the counts. "
A very polite way of putting it Brian .
personally I would go for a complete shambles if not a national disgrace and we still have people going around the world telling "emerging " nations how to run elections!! oh how they must laugh.
and as snow thistle points out we had a commission to find out what went wrong and how to remedy it and along comes Mr Clegg who is prepared to totally ignore it's very costly findings when it suits him and his party.
running the referendum that no one actually wants is a very convenient way of upstaging the Scottish and Welsh devolved elections .
respect ??? I don't think so (and taking a leaf out of your book Brian that's me being polite!!)
Sid
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Is it not the case that some English local elections are also being held on 5th May next year? In which case, what is the problem, as there will be other elections taking place in all 4 parts of the UK?
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Arran #3 What difference do local elections in England make to the recommendations of the Gould Commission? I think none.
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3. ArranBrownButterfly
I think the point is, the Scottish Parliament elections are very important, as important as the Westminster election, more so if you live in Scotland.
I did not notice and I am not aware of other big votes being done on the same day as the Westminster elections in the past, so why do it in Scotland. Without getting too prickly is it a case of ach Scotland, we'll give them the poll tax first etc etc as we dont really count to them higher heidjans
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The problem which No.3 ArranBrownButterfly does not understand, is that the UK and London media will once again dominate the airwaves with the referendum and will feature the 3 main UK leaders. This will effectively sideline the SNP, the Scottish leaders and the Scottish parliamentary elections.
It is a bit insulting to the Scottish people and shows no respect at all. Vote for anyone except the Lib Dems. Nick Clegg has put his own ambition before everything else including his own supporters wishes. What do Tavish Scott and Annabel Goldie think of this method of consultation between Westminster & Holyrood?
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#6
Totally agree, the problem is not the vote but the campaign.
John
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#6 Haggistrap
The point about sidelining the SNP in the Scottish general election of 2010 is, of course, completely valid. It is inconceivable that this will be allowed to occur. Or is it?
At any rate, it is, I venture to suggest, at least interesting that Brian Taylor is pointing out that the Presiding Officer has the power under Section 2 (5) of the Scotland Act to request that Scottish Parliament elections be moved by one month away from May 5th 2010 in either direction.
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The problem here is not just Nick Clegg and his respect for the devolved Parliaments and Assembly’s.
It is the standard arrogant attitude inherent in the civil service who totally disregard the devolved legislation that they produced and the MP’s who passed it into law, their totally ineptitude and disregard for all except their own selfish greed is the problem and the MP’s who are supposed to be our representatives, incompetence and personal greed only compounds the problems.
What with “Prudence” and the global meltdown, we now have the “Lib-Cons”, riding roughshod across the land breaking up the bits that “Prudence” did not get to.
What hope is there left? In hock with our natural resources and oil for the next 50 years to pay for the pensions and freebee’s that the “Lib-Cons” or should they be renamed the “Con-Dems” ?
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#8
Sorry about the irritating typo in my #8. I meant to say May 5th 2011, of course.
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This really rankles. With the Scotland Act, the Scottish Parliament had its house in order from the outset, not just with established four year terms and the primacy of parliament, but also on MSP expenses.
Now Westminster comes along and decides a few of these things are actually a good idea and starts a "dialogue" with the Scottish Government/Parliament to suggest it is Scotland which moves its election dates. This is totally unacceptable and breathtaking arrogance.
I would love to know how Scottish Lib Dems justify this in their utopian vision of federal Britain. It would seem that nothing in fact changes at all, and the regions are merely dictated to by the centre in a way that could not have even been imagined under Blair and Brown.
Now we have the frankly absurd situation whereby Scottish elections will take place under the mixed member proportional representation system, but the electorate, as part of the United Kingdom, will be asked to provide its views on yet another form of proportionality, Alternative Vote Plus. Does anyone else see the slapstick involved here? Like the electorate actually gives a toss?!
Not content with this, the UK government, which has offered the Scottish and Welsh legislatures nothing but "respect" you understand, actually wants the May date in 2015 for the general election. They could have had any other Thursday in any other year, but they have to have that one. Very "respectful."
Someone please get Nick Clegg the figures showing the number of spoiled ballots from the last Scottish elections as a means of indicating why this is such a bad idea on all counts, if you'll pardon the pun. He is fast becoming more arrogant than his Tory friends.
What is galling about it all is that he is wasting his time. A UK wide referendum on AV has about as much chance of success as a Scottish referendum on independence. And by the time of the proposed 2015 election I expect his party to be largely wiped out due to its utter spinelessness in Government to date.
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#1 Snowhistle
"One wonders how much taxpayers' money went to pay for the Gould report and why we commission such inquiries if we are not going to heed the advice."
I think that this advice has been heeded; proved by the recently arranged referendums and elections, against our nation and completely in line, from the Westminster/England point of view, with the Gould report recommendations.
I think that it is pretty sad that our TV license money is used/abused by BBC Scotland to promote this; the priority, as always, to keep us as dumb and confused as possible.
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Politicians are always told they shouldn't patronise the electorate. Both sides are in danger of this, Clegg for assuming the public won't wear multiple trips to the polls, the antis for assuming the public can't cope with multiple votes at once.
However, saving money has got to a reasonable motivation for putting them together, and apart from the 2007 elections with a new system, it's been happening for years without mishap. Opinion polls consistently show that voters are capable of having different preferences for Holyrood and Westminster, I'm sure that will be the case in 2015, and a clash will happen only every 20 years - the sky will not fall in.
One consequence in separating out the local elections is that turnout will almost certainly fall - I'm sure that wasn't the intention, but I'm not sure if it's a price worth paying.
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9. At 09:19am on 06 Jul 2010, oldmack wrote:
"What with “Prudence” and the global meltdown, we now have the “Lib-Cons”, riding roughshod across the land breaking up the bits that “Prudence” did not get to."
Far more importantly, the new government will now dismantle everything that 'Prudence' (as you call Gordon Brown), did get right and the working people of this country, not to mention the undersclass, will be far worse off as a result. Future generations, will now have to refight the battles fought and won by my father's generation, to improve the lot of ordinary working people in this country.
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#14
I'm intrigued. What exactly do you think that Gordon Brown got right? I really can't think of anything.
Personally I would support any electoral system that would ensure Labour never hold office again either in Scotland or at Westminster.
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15. At 10:48am on 06 Jul 2010, Wee-Scamp wrote:
"#14 I'm intrigued. What exactly do you think that Gordon Brown got right? I really can't think of anything."
You can start with the fight against 'child poverty' Brown's 'Family Tax Credits' while not perfect, (as the system can be exploited by the crooks/cheaters, as can all benfits), give millions of children of the porrer paid the ability to have things my generation lost out on, such as holidays, adequate clothing, shoes and sometimes even food, as our parents received minimum support on relatively poor wages.
But from your views in your 2nd paragragh, I don't think it would matter too much to you whether Brown was the reincarnation of Jesus Christ, you would still crucify him for idealogical reasons.
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#16
My views are certainly not ideological. I only judge political parties by the way they handle the economy. In Brown's case he completely mishandled the economy and by doing so let those in poverty down badly because he wrecked the economy's ability to create sufficient wealth.
I take issue with the Tories as well over their handling of the economy when they were in power. In reality they didn't get much right either.
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Whenever the proposed referendum is timetabled, at least We The People are getting a say in the matter - unlike the stitch-up (at the behest of the Scottish LibDems as a condition of the previous Holyrood coalition) which now denies me the opportunity to vote for my local authority Councillor of choice.
Trust the LibDems with any aspect of democracy?
I think not.
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I don't know why Brian is so exercised by what might happen in 2015, regarding a clash between Holyrood and Wastemonster elections.
If the Scottish people finally come to their senses and vote in their (and their descendants') own interests in 2011, membership of the UK should be a dimming memory by May 2015.
Independence Day to be the 700th anniversary of the Battle of Bannockburn.
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At the end of the day we should remember getting the ATV is a step in the right direction away from the undemocratic first past the post.
On another point I agree what did Brown get right? You say that in 13 years his only achievement was family tax credits. I would have to remind you of his other achievements:-
Wrecking the economy
War in Iraq
Record unemployment
Record debt
Making the UK the worst country in Western Europe able to deal with recession
Raft of anti-democractic legislation
Undermining free speech and democracy
Becoming an anti-democtratic unelected prime minister
Undermining and working against Scotland at every opportunity
Prevailing over and being party to alleged Labour "mishandling" of expenses
There is more but I'll stop there for a breather....
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17. At 1:01pm on 06 Jul 2010, Wee-Scamp wrote:
"#16 My views are certainly not ideological. I only judge political parties by the way they handle the economy. In Brown's case he completely mishandled the economy and by doing so let those in poverty down badly because he wrecked the economy's ability to create sufficient wealth."
Brown made the same mistake as Governments the world over - he failed to manage the Banker's greed and now ordinary people will have to pay the price, but there are different ways of making them pay and the way the Tories and their Lib Dem colleagues intend to do, is the Tory way, where the poor suffer most. VAT is an example where the poor pay a higher proportion of their income than the rich do.
Alex Salmond's proposals for the replacement of Council tax would have had the same benefits for pensioners and the less well off as Brown's Working Family Tax Credits had for children. Let's hope he means to continue with this as a major policy for next year, for he is certain to lose votes with his 'soft on criminals' policies.
I used to think the Lib Dems had a death wish as whenever they looked like achieving success, they always found a vote loser to compensate. Looks like something of this has rubbed off on the SNP.
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15# "Personally I would support any electoral system that would ensure Labour never hold office again either in Scotland or at Westminster".
isn't that what the nazis did with the Enabling Act in 1933.
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I find the SNP moaning about Mr Clegg's referendum pathetic given their slow progress on the Independence referendum.
Maybe Mr Salmond & the SNP regime are not pushing on with Independence referendum because of difficulties in finding a date. What with Homecoming Parades, St Andrew's Day Holiday, Clan Gatherings etc. it must be difficult to find a free date in the SNP calendar.
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#21. Sheneval
Is Alex Salmond being soft on criminals? I didn't think the SNP's approach was all that different to that of the Tory/LibDem Coalition. Surely it' all about managing limited resources isn't it.
If you're referring to Labour's minimum knife carrying penalty well that was of course just nonsensical. I've carried a penknife for as long as I can remember and on the rare occasion nowadays that I go fishing I always take a knife.
Yes - I agree Local Income Tax would have been a good solution. But of course the opposition knew that which is why they opposed it.
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I watched a piece of HoC and some Conservative MP is insisting it should be dead mens and abstainers votes again.
Triffic!
Please do not grace number 23 with a reposte.
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So what? Different elections are routinely held on the same day in Scotland - for example, Holyrood elections & local council elections. I'd rather save some public money (and my time) by voting all at once on one day.
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uk abz scot # 23,
Isn't it great to have such a proactive government for a change?
Take the FMs trip to China, getting out there and actually promoting Scotland rather than sitting around moaning all the time.
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Remember a lot of voters normally put X for their name. Never mind offering them multiple election papers.
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14. Sheneval
"Far more importantly, the new government will now dismantle everything that 'Prudence' (as you call Gordon Brown), did get right and the working people of this country, not to mention the undersclass, will be far worse off as a result."
Wow as I understand it the poor have got even poorer over the last 13 years, the nuLabs haven't slow the increase one iota. There are at least 1 in 5 people in the UK living in poverty, carry on economic capitalism forever widening the the gap between rich and poor. An unsustainable state of affairs in a supposed civilized Western democracy. The UK is like a household with a fixed income having to feed an extra mouth every 2-3years with resources becoming stretched lessening each individuals slice of loaf.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
The problem if I remember correctly wasn't the fact of combining elections but the inadequacy of the counting machines to read the data properly, good old technology like manual counting would solve that problem (job creation).
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#27. At 6:10pm on 06 Jul 2010, snowthistle;
Absolutely Snow and there is no danger that he will appear in a Skirt or have a disgraceful affair as with No Labour.
#29 Cynical, I wuv u! Thanks fo the Link about the filter from fabulous Noosnet. The BEEB may think their chinese style state control is clever but all secret laws are unhealthy as exposed by Joan McAalpine's blog;
Quote'
British Irish Council has decided to base its secretariat in Edinburgh. You may have missed this - BBC Scotland thought a butcher in England selling python deserved far more attention on its evening news radio show, Drivetime, on Friday. There was no explanation on why the last Labour government at Westminster blocked the council from coming to Scotland, despite that being the wish of the majority of its members, who represent the governments of Northern Ireland, Eire, the Isle of Man, the Channel Islands, Wales, Scotland and the UK. Nor will you find much analysis - anywhere - on why the new coalition government's change of heart is significant. There was a piece in the Evening News on the announcement being a local coup for The Lothians. It ought to be a matter of considerable debate that Labour - the party claiming to speak for Scotland - spent much of its time blocking positive things that could reflect well on us. Remember how they held on to our share of the fossil fuel levy, which diverts a proportion of our oil and coal revenues to develop renewable energy? The Evening News story on the British Irish Council implies that the decision was blocked because Peter Hain, as Welsh Secretary, wanted it in Cardiff. In fact, the Welsh were willing to concede to Scotland, because it was the majority choice. Hain was following Gordon Brown's orders to prevent us getting it at all costs. Indeed, at one point he was so desperate to stop the jocks, he became the sole champion of the Isle of Man, to the bemusement of the Manx themselves.
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No.23...Sory...I did rise to the bait.......I am under the impression that the SNP would love to have a referendum on independance but it needs the approval of parliment. All opposition parties are opposed to the referendum and have declared they will vote against it therby kicking it in to the long grass. This appears to be a no brainer as to why they (SNP) do not push it through the normal channels. It will come though...one day.
On a different point...I intend to spoil my paper on the proposed voting referendum as a mark of my comtempt towards the Libs. Hope many more thousands will join me to deny clegg the luxury of spending one of his pieces of silver.
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It's really amazing what a little bit of power will do, Clegg's smug look on tv Moore Scotland can change their dates and Alexander backing off the trial of cheap fuel for the Islands,come the Scottish elections I hope they get a right bloody nose.I have read a good article about the BBC on the web site we are not allowed to mention on here that all came about when Brian could not give us anymore information about Gray's Namechange document,we have not forgotten Brian.
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29. At 9:45pm on 06 Jul 2010, cynicalHighlander wrote:
"Wow as I understand it the poor have got even poorer over the last 13 years, the nuLabs haven't slow the increase one iota. There are at least 1 in 5 people in the UK living in poverty, carry on economic capitalism forever widening the the gap between rich and poor."
It depends how you measure poverty - I saw a report in the paper yesterday that a couple with 2 children need £29+ and that does not include costs of rent or mortgage but does include the costs for a car.
Quite frankly I regard this, like most stats, as 'mince'
Whilst it would be lovely to see everyone entitled to that kind of money, it is just not possible under the system we live under, nor is not having that sum 'living in poverty'
Poverty cannot be measured in purely cash terms. Other factors including where you live are of major importance. Brown provided the cash for the kids. Unfortunately he failed to tackle the drugs, the sink estates and the criminal element, just the same as all other British/Scottish governments of the past and based on current legislation, the future.
The costs coupled with the 'Human Rights Act' or as it should be properly named 'The Criminal's Human Rights Act' for 'Making Lawyers Rich' make it virtually impossible to do so.
Another major factor in poverty is the individual's ability to cope with life; to budget, their health, etc. etc.
When we got married we took out 1 item a year on HP until we had the house furnished. When my daughter was due I gave up smoking and the car, both of which I could not afford. My wife gave up work to look after our daughter.
Because of the shortage of decent council housing, we had bought our own flat and lived in a relatively decent area and never considered ourselves poor - we managed our money, or should I say my wife did - she kept a tin box with places for each essential weekly outgoing. We managed to have a holiday every year usually a week in Millport, later 2 weeks in Scarborough and eventually abroad.
Don't blame Gordon Brown too much for what went wrong - his major flaw was that he was trying to sort out too many aspects of bad government of the past too quickly and saving nothing for that rainy day that will surely come along under Capitalism, just as it has always done.
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Apropos of the AV referendum (whether coinciding with the Holyrood elections or not), though it will obviously be based on a UK poll I'm guessing it's possible that there may be differing results between England and devolved Scotland, Wales and NI. More thin ends of wedges in Unionist cracks?
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It would help if Snowthistle, Sid and others actually read the Gould report before attacking the UK government for 'ignoring its recommendations'. Page 52, for example: "There is very little evidence to support the argument that the simultaneous local government election using STV contributed substantially to the higher rejection rates in the Scottish parliamentary election (see Problem 6). There is very strong evidence to suggest that the combined Scottish parliamentary ballot sheet was the main cause of this problem." In other words, the problems was not the combination of the local government and Scottish Parliament elections, but the combination of the two types of election to the Scottish Parliament in a single (badly designed and badly field-tested) ballot paper.
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Previous election 'difficulties' having been with the vote-counters (particularly non-human ones) rather than with the ability of voters to follow voting instructions differing between one ballot-paper and another, we should be looking to align ALL votes (European, Wastemonster, Holyrood and councils) on the same day and with coincident fixed terms.
As to voting system changes, I'm afraid that anything supported by Nick Clegg - by the way, how much did he get for his granny when he sold her after the election for a sniff of power (and the smell is as near as he will get to REAL power, with First Secretary of State William Hague much more of a deputy to Call Me Dave than he will ever be)? - is unlikely to garner my vote.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
The problem in the past was having 3 polls (Scottish, Council and European elections) on the same day and confused voters, not the counting. I remember as I was working in a polling station on that day, the resulting mess was why they said 3 polls at the same time would not heppen again.
But cutmaster cameron, the organ grinder and and his monkey clegg decide they want it on the same day as 2 other polls.
Part of me hopes that the referendum for AV does fail to spite lapdog Clegg and then watch as his party disintegrates around him. Do you think the bookies will take bets on the liberals divorcing from the democrats ? Clegg the puppet won't be invited to join the liberals if they do.
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a number of commentators are missing the point in regards to the Scottish Elections and referendum being on the same day some citing the English local elections as a good reason why they should be held on the same day in Scotland as with the rest of the UK. We only need to look back to the last general election and recall how Scotland and its political requirements were being completely ignored by the UK press and media, if people think this will not happen again may I suggest they think again. Scots are well capable of seperating one ballot paper from another are the press and media especially those driven by London demands or UK advertising revenue. Change the date and allow democracy to be seen alongside respect.
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If people do not understand how to record their vote(s) of choice, they are entitled to ask for, and receive, advice and/or assistance.
If they choose not so to do, and cast an invalid vote or one not in accord with their intentions, it is entirely their own faults.
The voter has to take personal responsibility for his/her actions.
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No 6:
"The problem which No.3 ArranBrownButterfly does not understand, is that the UK and London media will once again dominate the airwaves with the referendum and will feature the 3 main UK leaders. This will effectively sideline the SNP, the Scottish leaders and the Scottish parliamentary elections."
Too true!
Will we have a debate amongst the three leaders as to their stance?
Will we have question time from Wolverhampton on the referendum (the first we have had in the country since 1974, minus Celtic regions of course)?
Will we have radio brit-jocks like Campbells (nicky & glen) and Adams asking Scots what its like to be british and having the opportunity to tell the politicians what we think, don’t we think it just magnificent?
The airways and papers will be full of guff! This guff, the price the liberals have extorted from the tories to prop up their savage cuts on Scotland, all for the sake of this obsession they have with voting system.
To be a democracy you need control over your own elections with the consent of the people. Frankly the liberals due to this obsession with the voting system have chosen to cast aside any concerns Scotland has. It makes a mockery of our parliamentary elections.
Am I right in thinking that the liberals were against a Scottish referendum on our country’s right to choose self determination, because we were in a financial pickle. Erm, excuse me, but has said party now said we are in an even bigger financial pickle than they thought, but despite that, they still want a referendum on constitutional change.
Seems to any reasonable person, the liberals are complete and utter hypocrites not to be trusted!
C McK
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Round of applause for Calum!
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If an issue is important enough to be put to We The People in a referendum, then it should be important enough for politicians to speak their minds - possibly for the first time - rather than being expected to follow the Party Line.
Any referendum issue should be a matter of conscience, with the expectation that all parties will have members on both sides of the debate.
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Heres something that rings a bell about hijacking the Scottish election date:
Deprive the people of their national consciousness, treat them as a tribe & not a nation, dilute their national pride, do not teach their history, propagate their language as inferior, imply they have a cultural void, emphasise their customs as primitive, & dismiss independence as a barbaric anomaly.
This is the true Westminster value of our country no matter which government are in.
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Surrounded as she was on all sides tonight (as always) I wasn't overly impressed with how Nicola handled many of the issues and the questions directed at her.
Personally think she should've verbally slapped Douglas Alexander on both the schools and Megrahi issues, but pulled her punches and fudged around the edges.
I was particularly disappointed how she handled the AV referendum and Scottish elections being held on the same day, and left her self open to deprecation at suggesting voters can't cope with voting on two contests at the same time.
Surely the salient point is not the actual voting but the campaigns leading up to both votes. The London media machine will solely focus on AV and the Westmonster three to the detriment of both the Welsh and Scottish elections and therefore both Plaid and the SNP.
Perhaps softly softly is still the tactic, but it's hard to stomach watching issues being confused live on air like that when you have the chance to set the record straight.
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47 SCOTINNOTTS: I completely agree with your comments re the AV referendum and the Scottish election and was disappointed that Nicola did not explain that the problem will be the focus of the broadcast media and the press will be solely on the Westminster referendum. Certainly, an opportunity missed which is a pity when there are so few occasions for the Nats to put over their point on network t.v.
CONGRATULATIONS, BRIAN ON YOUR DOCTORATE!
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Arise, Professor Lord Taylor of Tannadice! :-)
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Actually I said previously it's a step in the right direction AV. I've read a bit more since I made that comment and have to say it's more a stumble than a step it's not even a proportional system. Actually it's made me realise the Lib Dems have really sold out! Is there anything they wont throw or ditch for power?
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46. paul Hunter
These are classic tactics used time and again throughout history by conquering nations. Unfortunately what doesn't come up time and again in history but what we have an abundance of is sell out Scots. Sell out there country and people for their masters in London.
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Congratulations, Dr Taylor.
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A Doctorate! Well done!
Now about politics and things of interest on the Glasgow front , any news on Glasgow City Council?
Any happenings you'd like to share with the long suffering electorate?
Any news at all?
I am amazed that the BBBC is not as up to date as it thinks and that those who PAY for the BBBC are being kept in the dark.
Shame!
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There's a wee profanity which tells an interesting tale!
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Address to Sheneval, Last-of-the-Menie-Feu and others
“Oh wad some power the giftie gie us To see oursel's as others see us! It wad frae monie a blunder free us, And foolish notion.”
Council tax rates for all Bands in Scotland are widely thought to be higher than in England. But that’s NOT SO. Water and Sewage charges are added to Council Taxes in Scotland but NOT in England and Wales. Down South, separate companies levy water and sewage charges on households, leaving their Council Taxes as completely separate items. Which means that the customary Scottish comparison of overall Council taxes North and South of the border are simply not comparing like with like. Moreover, those separate charges for water services down South are usually higher than in Scotland.
For comparisons of real Council taxes and living costs between London and Scotland, precise figures are difficult to make. But one way is to compare rates for comparable urban areas. The levy for all Tax Bands is 10% higher in the London borough of, say, Camden than in Glasgow. Equivalent property prices are about two and an half times higher, which leads to much higher rents and mortgage costs. And because the proportion of higher value banded properties is much greater in London, the average tax-per-home is far greater too. On other matters, travel-to-work costs are higher in London because distances and fares are both greater than in Scotland. All sorts of services cost more in London whether its cinemas, taxis or house repairs. Arguably, NI pensions and tax allowances should be higher too – but they’ve not cottoned on to this yet.
The important point is not just cost comparisons with London, but to give some consideration that our resentment of London’s dominance is widely shared in other parts of our island. Especially in our closest neighbour: the North of England. In that region, average incomes are significantly lower than in Scotland, yet they have a much lower settlement than our Barnett formula. For some reason, we fly over or rattle through our neighbour’s territories without a thought for what those neighbours may think of us.
Now we arrogantly assume that those neighbours should abandon their own plans for electricity generation and buy a proportion of their power needs from Scotland instead. Wouldn’t it be polite to ask them first?
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Having seen Kermit the liberal puppets latest comments about this and his view of the future being coalitions, I think I will definitely vote no in aa referendum.
Hopefully if we get a majority saying no he won't last too much longer.
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@49, VuVu_McABE wrote:
Arise, Professor Lord Taylor of Tannadice! :-)
If Beattie was to make it to the House of Lords, it would at least give a heavyweight (in EVERY sense) to counterbalance Baron Prescott of Kingston-upon-Hull.
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Kingston-upon-Hulk perhaps?
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I see the BBBC website has succeeded in publicising the child catchers book.
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Yes indeed 5th May sees new elections for our glorified regional council aka scottish parliament, and yes a part of me would like to see the CONDEMS (careful with spelling here, don't want to be moderated) numbers reduced by at least 12. Someone suggested SNP were soft on crime, well mibees aye mibees naw, whit wuz that ah hurd aboot the former BAR-L foriegn resident life expectancy is now ? well lets say 12 months or how long is a piece of $tring, about time for a little scripted email to SNP HQ for that one! Whilst undergoing RCT yesterday (Root Canal Treatment) and couging up £100 + cash I remarked to receptionist that in this particular part of south side of glasgow it must be an unusal concept someone actually paying cash for treatment, it also went right over the head of the pharmacist when I remarked the same when dolling out my £3 for my prescripted drugs...........then again this might have been a language barrier encounterd here.......
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55. At 6:51pm on 11 Jul 2010, leftie wrote:
"Address to Sheneval, Last-of-the-Menie-Feu and others
“Oh wad some power the giftie gie us To see oursel's as others see us! It wad frae monie a blunder free us, And foolish notion.”
Council tax rates for all Bands in Scotland are widely thought to be higher than in England. But that’s NOT SO. Water and Sewage charges are added to Council Taxes in Scotland but NOT in England and Wales. Down South, separate companies levy water and sewage charges on households, leaving their Council Taxes as completely separate items. Which means that the customary Scottish comparison of overall Council taxes North and South of the border are simply not comparing like with like."
Even allowing for the fact that water charges are separate the Queen still pays less in Council tax than I do if I deduct my water charges and as Council tax is based on house values the Lonsoners pay significantly less in Council tax for their house values than we do. I notice you do not mention the London allowance paid to many people for working in London but prseumably you would not want that extra benefit broadcast.
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