Meeting of minds
The committee may be joint but the ministers taking part have decidedly different perspectives.
For David Cameron, the JMC which meets today is part of his respect agenda: taking the devolved institutions seriously; working in consort with the devolved administrations.
With regard to Scotland, this serves two purposes. It helps to counter the lingering impression that the Tories are remote from Scotland, "other than Scottish": an impression reinforced when they previously stood out against Scottish self-government.
Secondly, for the prime minister, it contrives to sidestep the small problem that the Tories have but one MP in Scotland.
No, they can say, we are not governing Scotland as a tiny minority north of the Border.
We are working co-operatively with the elected SNP Scottish Government. Helps too that their coalition partners have more Scottish seats than the SNP.
For the Nationalists? Perhaps three distinct purposes.
Subordinate cause
Firstly, it underlines the status of the devolved government.
The JMC fell into disuse in the early days of devolution partly because Labour minister (in Westminster) talked informally to Labour minister (in Edinburgh) - but also because the Whitehall world-view featured Holyrood as a department, rather than a government: as a subordinate cause.
Secondly, Alex Salmond plans to use the JMC to press for specific concessions on spending: for example, the demand that the devolved territories should get their Barnett consequential share of money spent regenerating London off the back of the Olympics.
Expect the UK Government to make concessions, where possible, but also to evangelise on the need for spending cuts.
Thirdly, the JMC fits with Mr Salmond's longer term strategy - which is to work consensually and sensibly within the existing UK structure while simultaneously inviting the people of Scotland to conclude that much more could be done with enhanced powers and, ultimately, independence.
I'm 
~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~18~RS~)
Comments
Sign in or register to comment.
"Helps too that [the Conservatives'] coalition partners have more Scottish seats than the SNP."
Aaaaarrrrggghhhhh!
As will doubtless be picked up by virtually every regular contributor to BwB, there are no such things as Scottish seats - not yet, anyway - and MPs at Wastemonster (a House of Equals!) all represent UK constituencies, nothing more, nothing less.
As to the 'joint' committee, who is in the chair - and which governmental entity meets the costs for its administration (and meetings)? I can imagine 'Apoplectic in Andover' being comewhat discomfited if part of his/her taxes is paying to give the outlying regions of the realm a soapbox to promote unpatriotic (to England) views.
Complain about this comment
What a disappointment.
Seeing the headline that the Big Grey Man film project starts, I thouht that someone had so much more money than sense that they had decided to fund a biopic of the Leader of the Labour Group in the Scottish Parliament, bur unfortunately not.
It seems planned to be a drama rather than a documentary, so I hope that the filmmakers will consider using the face of the aforementioned non-Leader of the non-existent Scottish Labour party as a template for the bogeyman; the notion of him having power is certainly enough to give any rational Scot the HeeBeeGeeBees (with a nod to Messrs Cribb - Dobbin, Garry and Norris)....
Complain about this comment
Your not, I hope, suggesting that cuts should be made in the Barnett consequential share, or worse, that we are not entitled to any share of the regeneration of London at the national expense.
Complain about this comment
OFFICIAL - Feeling grumpy is good for you.
So, Scots should be the healthiest group in Europe (especially non-SNP politicians).
The final piece of Brian's article today, though, seems to prop up the argument that Scotland (and, indeed, the devolved assemblies) treat Wastemonster as the 'Bank of Mum and Dad' and that we should only get our own cheque-book once we have shown that we can live within our allowance.
Given that cheque-books will be historical relics by the end of the decade, we need to pick up the pace as we march towards independence (being careful to select a route that bypasses pie-shops and chippers).
Complain about this comment
The latest TNS poll suggests that Salmond has very little time left to make an impact on the constitutional arrangement before the SNP are shunted aside and normal service is resumed.
Oh, I'm sorry. Are we glossing over that?
Ps. Does anyone else know about rumoured SNP private polling re independence?
Complain about this comment
Brian,
I never new I lived in a devolved "territory". How nice.
Maybe one day I can aspire to living on a Reservation?
Complain about this comment
Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer? Perhaps both having similar thoughts, personally it'll be meagre pickings!
Complain about this comment
What is the point in allowing comments on this blog when they seem to take days to be moderated and then published? Why don't you just supply a postal address Brian, and we can mail comments to you, second class. That would probably be quicker. Is the aim to stifle debate, or am I a cynic?
Complain about this comment
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Glenn Campbell must be a happy man today, with the news that ITV local news pilot schemes are dropped, so he just has to 'worry' about Bernard Ponsonby in terms of political news coverage.
I never was too sure how deep the influence was meant to go - just the local news programmes (like the GMTV drops), or local news coverage in a wider sense - but taking news away from an integrated broadcaster (such as STV should be) would have been a poor decision.
Will the SNP continue to press the case for a Scottish Six?
Complain about this comment
It is an even more pathetic service that can't take any critisism.
Complain about this comment
The 'Tweedle Dems' may have more "Scottish" MPs than the SNP but, of course, they were gained with fewer votes than the SNP received - and under the largely discredited Westminster voting system.
#5 Expat
By "normal service", predictably you mean having Scotland governed as a minor region of Greater England.
History clearly shows that to be the very attitude that has imposed, and sought to impose, remote governance upon Scotland for centuries.
Remote governance may have been enjoyed, and abused, by many a Colonial governor during the British Empire, but it is no longer acceptable in any democracy - particularly in the 21st Century.
So, either you are blind to the truth and tide of history - or you cling the belief that Scotland should be uniquely denied the right to self-determined democratic government.
Is it one or the other - or both??
Complain about this comment
5. Reluctant-Expat
"Oh, I'm sorry. Are we glossing over that?"
Glossing over what? That Labour has seen a boost since the GE? Hardly something to gloss over. It means that there is going to be a very hard fought election campaign in the next year -- since Labour would have won on those results. But they aren't the results that count--the election is still a year away.
Pretty simple. They need to say something more than 'Ya boo we hate the SNP' to hold any kind of lead. Are they capable of it?
Complain about this comment
Does it really matter what Call Me Dave ssys he wants to do FOR Scotland. It will be normal service because Scotland only saw fit to elect one Scottish Conservative MP.
You can bet he will turn up to all sort of meetings and make lovely promises and then produce the axe. I wonder who will be first to fall under it.
If anyone in Scotland thinks the Tories and the La La Lib Dems will do anything for us in the appendage they must be living in another world.
Complain about this comment
8. rolfrae
You're right,the aim here now is not to inform, but to stifle debate.Poor subject matter,and painfully slow moderation have combined to turn BwB into a joke. Most of the old contributors have gone from here, and I don't blame them either. Too many people on here have criticised the BBC's beloved Labour party. Too many people were learning too much about what's been going on in Scotland politically. So, better to let BwB wither on the vine. You'll find no difficult or awkward questions here. Better to try more informative sites, one of which is mentioned on here regularly. You'll feel better for it.
Complain about this comment
@17, ziggyboy wrote:
"Does it really matter what Call Me Dave ssys he wants to do FOR Scotland."
Well, it certainly makes a change, since those of a certain age have memories only of what the Conservatives did TO Scotland.
Give it time, though; I suspect that Call Me Dave has a wardrobe full of leopard-print attire....
Complain about this comment
"Thirdly, the JMC fits with Mr Salmond's longer term strategy"
what longer term strategy, thankfully he wont be fm this time next year.
Complain about this comment
sorry Brian , but I don't live in a devolved territory, I live in a nation.
my thoughts on all this is perhaps the tory's are trying to give Scotland enough rope to hang itself!
My hope being we could actually prove them wrong.
I don't know about everyone else but I have had more than enough of the too small ,too weak , too thick and skint concept
it is time to show what we as a NATION ,Brian, can actually do, whether that is with FULL fiscal autonomy or Independence it doesn't really matter what matters is that we go out there and do it.
no help, no excuses,living within our means, no one else to blame when it goes wrong and no one else to take the credit when we get it right. it's called being grown up!
Sid
Complain about this comment
Im all for a good working replationship with our neighbours but unleass the Conservatives are going to do away with devolution then the cuts are the Scottish Governments problem [Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]
Complain about this comment
Good lord. I can't believe he said that!
"for example, the demand that the devolved territories..."
Territories???!!
I BEG your pardon? As others have said before, I do NOT live in a territory.
This comment says it all. I can no longer continue posting in this blog.
Complain about this comment
@20, kenstor wrote:
""Thirdly, the JMC fits with Mr Salmond's longer term strategy"
what longer term strategy, thankfully he wont be fm this time next year."
Och, I don't think he'll be El Presidente that quickly after sweeping all before him in the Holyrood election in May; maybe by Christmas, with Nicola Sturgeon as FM as an SNP Dream Team...?
Complain about this comment
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
"Expect the UK Government to make concessions, where possible,"
Er, which UK is this, and which Government?
I certainly expect no such thing from any Wastemonster administration!
Complain about this comment
#16
An increase in Labour support is not something to celebrate either. Labour have already done more damage to the Scottish economy than Thatcher managed so we owe it to our children and grandchildren to make sure they are never in power again.
Complain about this comment
Brian, I suspect you are being just a wee bit provocative in using the phrase "the devolved territories", talk about light blue touch paper and stand well back.
Complain about this comment
#20
Who do you want to be FM and why?
Complain about this comment
Brian,
Can I ask you in a very civil manner when you are going to give us an update on the Namechange document that was prominent in one of your blogs.I hope this has not broken the House Rules.
Thank you.
Complain about this comment
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Are we starting to see the benefits at long last of a SNP Government in the responses from the UK Government. The Tories have a long term plan to get themselves back into a position of increasing their votes and seats by the 'respect' approach to Scotland. In achieving being seen to 'give in' to the SNP and therefore nuetralising them it saves the 'union'. Labour on two fronts did not go down this road, one, their dislike of the SNP and what they stand for, and their power base within Scotland meant they did not concern themselve too much with the voters. A vote for Labour is a vote against the Tories not a vote for the positives Labour can bring to Scotland.
Complain about this comment
If as one poll suggests Labour have increased their support in Scotland how will that make things better? Will they be capable in any way to put their hatred of the Tories aside and work for the betterment of Scotland or will they just oppose as they do now in Holyrood. Will the Conservatives feel any desire to work with Labour knowing the mess they have left the economy on and the fact that Labour voting Scots helped deny them an outright victory.
So in short what possible benefit is ther to Scotland to continue voting Labour?
Complain about this comment
"A geographic region, such as a colonial possession, that is dependent on an external government" is one definition of a territory. The harsh reality is that Scotland is not a country. I, for one, would like my country back.
Complain about this comment
Would that be the North West Territories? Brian if so I'll go and get Gupta fired up to make good our escape from the clutches of our Imperial masters.
Complain about this comment
"Public to be asked for cuts views".
Chancellor George Osborne says he wants to involve people in the debate on dealing with the national debt.
Sorry if I am introducing another topic here but, don't you want to throw up in your Scotch Broth when you hear such patronising statements?
I can't believe that the government is that removed from reality that these 'people' will know the first thing about dealing with the National Debt. We already know that the level of Personal Debt in this country is one of the highest in Europe, if not the worst.
The nearest ridiculous analogy I can think of is if Walter Smith at Ibrox tried to stop a champions league game in order to ask the 60,000 "experts" in the stadium how should he deal with the tactics the opposition are using.
regards
Flatcap :-(
Complain about this comment
I think David Cameron has the makings of a good British PM!
He wants to keep the union intact and realises that the greatest threat is not the SNP drive for self-government but the continued neglect and unintentional insults from Westminster.
I think he is fighting a losing battle but I give him top marks for his vision and his efforts.
Complain about this comment
I'll add my voice to the choir awaiting the document that proves the name change that was referenced in a past blog.
It's a simple request, and it should have a simple answer.
Complain about this comment
To refer to Scotland as a territory is insulting to me.
Complain about this comment
'but also because the Whitehall world-view featured Holyrood as a department, rather than a government: as a subordinate cause.'
A department adminisitering a territory:a subordinate territory?
And people wonder why i want Scottish freedom...
Complain about this comment
@37, Hugo of Garven wrote:
"I think David Cameron has the makings of a good British PM!"
He has the makings of a good English PM, and I look forward to him being the first Prime Minister of an independent England.
Complain about this comment
"devolved territories"
These include the nations of Scotland and Wales plus Northern Ireland. Anyone want to define Northern Ireland as a nation?
Personally, I'm not fussed about the language. Scotland is what it's people decide that it is. Currently, polls suggest that most Scots think of it as a nation with limited powers of self determination, which should be increased - but should still continue in some form of union with other nations.
I happen to agree with that concept. The questions to be determined are -
Which powers should remain exclusively determined in Scotland?
Which powers (if any) should be pooled with other nations in various unions - UK, EU, NATO, UN?
I don't imagine that any posters want to revert to the pre WWII concept of Independence which didn't involve UN membership and acceptance of the limitations of sovereignty that acceptance of the UN Charter involves.
So, we need to move to a more sensible discussion of exactly which areas of sovereignty should be exercised on behalf of the Scottish people. If your answer is "Everything!" then an "independent" Scotland will fail to meet the criterion for UN membership.
Political parties love to polarise options in order to force choices that favour the election of their particular set of career politicians.
I'm in favour of Scots wanting to increase the level of autonomous decision making that we should exercise, and voting to achieve that.
There are a number of sensible choices - Greenland, Iceland, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Faroes all have different degrees of "independence".
Shouting "Freedom!" doesn't add to the debate - nor does being Reluctant-Expat.
I'd like this site to get back to sensible debate on Scotland's future - but that may no longer be possible.
Complain about this comment
42. oldnat
"Personally, I'm not fussed about the language."
You were certainly fussed about my language. Funny you're not fussed about Scotland being nothing but a territory.
I'm done here. Brian Taylor very firmly nailed his colours to the mast if he hadn't already with his constantly doing down the SNP and refusing to answer the claims he made in a previous post.
As for what I think the next step in independence should be, I'm allied with this particular movement as I previously commented (whether some consider it "intrusive" or not):
http://www.cffr.co.uk/
It's not as far in independence as I want to go. But I think it is as far as Scots are willing to go out from under the wing of our supposed protection of the UK. (And I think your conflating the UN with wanting independence is a very peculiar red herring since I have yet to see anyone object to that)
But discussion on this blog with Brian Taylor denying that we are even a nation and posting "facts" that he refuses to back up makes this a blog where I no longer care to post.
So this is my last.
Beannachd leib
Complain about this comment
I'm sorry to hear that several people,who support the independence view, have felt the need to withdraw from posting from this blog. You are only allowing the Unionists to win. For quite some time now BwB has allowed a forum mostly of SNP supporters to post on here; even though it is a section of the British Broadcasting Corporation. Several times the posters have castigated Brian for his pro union biasedness, myself included, and yet he still allows us to post. This is our blog, under the fine stewardship(?) of our Brian, and we should continue to post here.
I remember posting here before the election that I thought DC would have a completely different attitude towards the Scottish government than GB and his cronies had. I'm heartened to see that I wasn't wrong; which makes a surprising change. I also suspected that DC would make a deal with AS which would enable the Union to stay together, I am still awaiting the outcome of this deal.
I suspect that AS and DC will come to some arrangement; which may not be conducive to either party's social cohesion. DC wants to keep the Union and AS wants something else. At the end of the day I suspect that the SNP will gain something but not enough to keep the party members happy. Whereas, DC needs to return from this deal with enough to keep his English shires a little less discontented. Interesting times ahead.
Complain about this comment
Brian…. What little faith you have… ‘Meeting of Minds’ indeed:
Alex Salmond wins first round of cash battle.
It should be Parting with Cash.
Scotland has secured an additional £182 million in funding from the UK government as the SNP's cordial relationship with the new Westminster administration bears fruit.
After years of conflict with Labour ministers, the Conservative-Liberal Democrat coalition government is set to hand over a pot of money to Scotland – known as the fossil fuel levy – that can be invested in renewable energy projects. Labour consistently refused to hand over the cash despite claims that it was Scotland's money.
In a further boost, First Minister Alex Salmond last night claimed that he was also confident about securing £190m for Scotland, calculated as a share of the spending on the London Olympics.
Complain about this comment
#44
I agree. I also always thought that DC would adopt a more grown up and obviously less stalinist, centralising attitude to AS and the SNP than GB and his commissariat.
What this tells us of course is that voting Labour in Scotland would be voting for a Scottish Govt that will increase centralised control, reduce local democracy and only favour those that support Gray's commissariat.
Complain about this comment
Open for business:
Businesses in the north share £11.8m payout.
Hundreds of businesses have been awarded a share of £60million to provide new jobs and boost the rural economy.
A total of 533 projects across the country have been given a share of Scottish Government cash to invest in a wide variety of enterprises.
The money, released under the Rural Priorities Scheme, is expected to create 530 jobs and safeguard 430.
In the Highlands, £11.8million has been divided up among 86 organisations.
Complain about this comment
gedguy2,
I suspect that Mr Cameron is hoping that if he moves on small things like the fossil fuel levy and maybe even the Barnet consequential of the olympics and if he is seen to communicate with the Scottish Government, he will be perceived as being more reasonable than the last administration. He can then take a much harder line on Calman versus FFA which is, in my view the big issue. I don't think we are going to see much movement on this.
P.S I've emailed my LibDem MP to ask her views on the Calman proposals, she is yet to answer, maybe she is waiting for her party to firm up their views.
Complain about this comment
I'm sorry, but is this a joke?!
The SNP have created 'Brave@Heart Awards'?!
Dammit, people all over the world will see this and we will be a laughing stock!
Only the nationalists could come up with such a cringeworthy name!
Complain about this comment
From The Herald: Glaswegian men 'will die sooner'
Men in Glasgow have the lowest life expectancy in the UK, official statistics show.
North Lanarkshire has the second lowest UK male life expectancy.
According to Glasgow Shettleston MSP Frank McAveety it’s the SNP’s fault.
Unbelievable!
http://tinyurl.com/3yhskkb
Complain about this comment
Scotsman:
Mr Moore said: "It is surprising that a Secretary of State for Scotland whose job is to make devolution work as well as possible has not appeared formally at Holyrood before now."
Answer - that's uk & nb labour for you!
The English section of the party never believed in any form of powers seeping from London to Edinburgh. The Scottish section of the party can behave as they wish knowing that the faithful will follow follow.
It's early days, but the tories are behaving more consideratley and appropriately than any labour regime since 1997. That said, I would not trust them, it is their instinct to rule from centre, that means London. At the end of the day Boris will have a louder shout in Dave's ear than Alec.
In the past many observers have placed thought provoking articles about what will labour in Scotland do next. No deep thought required, they'll continue scrapping the bottom expecting to be returned by the faithful.
C McK
C McK
Complain about this comment
View these comments in RSS