The Twitter election
Apologies for slight delay in blogging on this topic - I was engrossed in presenting my Big Debate on the wireless.
One questioner inquired whether this would be the "Twitter election". Certainly is for Labour in Moray.
(That particular issue arose during the debate, in a different context.)
Labour's candidate Stuart MacLennan has been sacked for posting abusive comments about rivals, fellow party members and indeed, it would appear, much of the public at large.
Pretty well everything, it would seem, upset Stuart. You name it, he had a pathetic comment to offer, tedious yet unpleasant too. Cicero, he was not.
'Anonymous bile'
Labour dithered about sacking him - but have now dispensed with his contribution to this election.
In the statement, Labour invited their rivals to do the same, should comparable circumstances arise. That goes without saying - and indeed should have gone without being said.
Simple contrition would have sufficed on this particular occasion - rather than an attempt to implicate others, however much Labour may feel members of other parties are similarly intemperate in spouting noxious, anonymous bile on the web.
PS: While waiting for this new post, my online colleagues kept open the responses to an earlier blog to allow you, our readers, to comment. As promised. As delivered.
I'm 
~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~55~RS~)
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Brian
It is the wont of the younger ones to affect this weary cynicism. Where we may wail and gnash our teeth, that generation calls it saying like you see it.
PS Thank you.
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"PS: While waiting for this new post, my online colleagues kept open the responses to an earlier blog to allow you, our readers, to comment. As promised. As delivered."
Thanks Brian!
Normal service and all that...
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Brian,
So someone does read the comments. Thanks for keeping the discussions going.
I think that of the responses to twittergate (thought I would get that in first) I liked the lib dems' point most: it shows the paucity of talent left in labour.
I am always uneasy about the demanding of a sacking.
John
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"Simple contrition would have sufficed on this particular occasion - rather than an attempt to implicate others,"
A good point Brian. A straight apology would have made a cleaner break; now it looks a bit like weasel words. Poor judgement IMO.
This, combined with the fact that the silly tweeter had many labour folk (some are fairly senior figures) following his twitter stream makes it harder for Labour to put this one away quickly.
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Have to agree with Big Bella on this one:
Reacting to the decision, Scottish Conservative leader Annabel Goldie said of the incident: "It was repugnant, insulting and totally in character with Labour's desperate and dirty campaign."
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Brian,
Well, nice to see that the policy is now to keep the blog open until a new topic appears. Will this continue over the weekend ?
I'm fascinated by your perception that the Labour Party believe that "members of other parties are similarly intemperate in spouting noxious, anonymous bile on the web."
Care to name any names Brian ? Wasn't there this thing called "Red Rag" (prop. UK NuLab) ?
On the other hand, will Mr MacLennan now be hounded from his position as a Researcher to Labour MSP Pauline MacNeill in similar fashion to recent events with a certain cheesy blogger ?
Will certain of your colleagues, weel-loved and kent on these pages, be spouting noxious, onymous bile at Mr MacLennan in the way that they did then ? Will they be calling for the head of Gordon Brown or The Murph as they called for the Head of Eck ?
Northern British NuLab - The Party with the interests of the people of Moray clearly at the front of their "vision". Here's hoping that the good burghers of the North-East deliver an appropriate riposte on May 6th.
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"Labour dithered about sacking him" I am sorry Brian we in Scotland and elsewhere would like the truth please.
"Labour's initial response is that MacLennan is a young candidate and has made a mistake. Let's see if that remains the position throughout today or whether they have to sack him."
"Iain Gray, leader of the Labour party in Scotland, said that Maclennan had the ‘full backing of the Labour Party’ – none of his Twitter followers deleted him.
He also had the backing of J Murphy
He was only sacked when the Labour party learnt that he was intending to resign.
They didn't dither they hoped it would travel to Australia.
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So did both Iain Grey and Jim Murphy back MacLennan before he was sacked ? If so why ?
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I suppose that is one way for the Labour candidate in Moray to get publicity.
The last time the Labour party in Moray got any publicity was after one of the 1974 elections when the BBC announced "Labour gain Moray and Nairn" LOL.
The Labour candidate in Moray ought to stay focussed on Angus Robertson's thin explanations about RAF Airfields after independence.
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Repeat from prev thread.
Labour PPC Stuart MacLennan
Labour's initial response is that MacLennan is a young candidate and has made a mistake. Let's see if that remains the position throughout today or whether they have to sack him.
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Twitter Twerp Only ‘Sacked’ After Telling Party He Was Resigning
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"Simple contrition would have sufficed on this particular occasion - rather than an attempt to implicate others, however much Labour may feel members of other parties are similarly intemperate in spouting noxious, anonymous bile on the web."
Why Brian, you SURELY wouldn't do exactly what you just said in the SAME sentence that the Labour Party shouldn't have done!
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I heard Murphy saying HE had got rid of MacLennan but Brown said he had to go, as Spud and Grey was saying MacLennan had the Party's backing just what the h*ll are they on,is Purcell about.
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"PS: While waiting for this new post, my online colleagues kept open the responses to an earlier blog to allow you, our readers, to comment. As promised. As delivered."
I'm afraid this particular comment caused me to "spout vile and intemperate bile", Brian. Please. I'd rather you didn't cause me to say words like that. I frightened the puppy.
For anyone who believes that the reason for shutting down a politic blog (for four days at one point) was to "wait for a new post", I do still have that nice shiny bridge in Brooklyn for sale--cheap.
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"Cicero, he was not."
I liked that line Brian... I don't think a 4 line sentence ever painted a more vivid picture in my mind...
http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/MSP/MembersPages/iain_gray/iain_gray.jpg
:o) LOL
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3. john
"So someone does read the comments. Thanks for keeping the discussions going.
I think that of the responses to twittergate (thought I would get that in first) I liked the lib dems' point most: it shows the paucity of talent left in labour.
I am always uneasy about the demanding of a sacking.
"
Sacking a politician? Nah. That I'm not uneasy about.
And maybe someone reads the comments--and gave a flying one what the commenters said. Or maybe someone heard from some MSPs, et al. Who knows. I will try to tug my forelock and be properly grateful but I must admit I'm finding it hard.
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206. mistydougie (from the previous thread).
"Labour fielded a candidate in Moray who referred to that constituency's voters as "teuchters".The Labour candidate in neighbouring Inverness,Nairn,Badenoch and Strathspey must be greetin."
You're right mistydougie, and it's a blow made worse given that Labour aren't really offering anything beyond 'stick with us' anyway.
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6. Chiefy1724
"Well, nice to see that the policy is now to keep the blog open until a new topic appears."
I vowed never to return after being 'kicked out' twice, however. Do not read too much into the quote from Brian. As he said " Whilst waiting for this new post". Nothing about revised policy for the future. Time will tell. BTW, I got kicked out for being off topic. All I did was criticise Brian and the BBC for closing blogs early!
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Why Labour's Twitter twit had to go
Strangely, less than half an hour before he was removed, the Scottish Secretary, Jim Murphy, was still insisting that MacLennan would remain the party's candidate for Moray and was fighting off Tory and SNP calls for his head.
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In a normal grown up world, this would simply be a story about a Weegie with a foul mouth. The shock. The horror. But Labour has made it a story because of their bizarre insistence that there is some sort of organised cybernat campaign of nastiness and swerrie wurds, a tactic Labour would have us believe it would never stoop to.
The phrases "hypocrites", "damage limitation" and "hoist by their own petard" spring to mind. And none of them are swerrie wurds.
I wasn't going to post anything here, but I received a message from Eckvil's secret underground lair which I picked up on the antenna embedded in my fillings. I had forgotten to wear my tinfoil hat today. Curses.
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Sarah Brown is one of McLellan's followers on Twitter. Did she know of his comments ? I think we should know...
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I liked Annabel Goldie's comment: "It was repugnant, insulting and totally in character with Labour's desperate and dirty campaign."
BTW Did Mr. Maclennan not have anything bad to say about the SNP or would reporting that have reinforced Labour's double standards?
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#16 JR
You have to be able to thank people otherwise your criticisms mean nothing. That is something that labour have not learned in the Scottish parliment.
The next person I tug a forelock to will be the first.
I am uneasy about demanding sackings because I can picture how a feading frenzy can develop and can be used to get rid of plenty of people (on both sides) who have not done anything remotely as bad, but have maybe stretched the line. Where do you think such a feeding frenzy may be disproportionally directed?
after all, if you sow the wind, you must be prepared to reap the whirlwind, etc. etc. and is everyone on your side whiter than white?
John
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So that's Labour in Moray dealt with. Now what about the Tory candidate? A Councillor elected as a Tory but who has resigned as a member of the Tory Group on Moray Council.
So how can the Tories credibly put forward someone who so fundamentally disagrees with his party colleagues that he cannot sit in the same room as them.
Admittedly not the "hanging offence" of the (now previous) Labour person but still worthy of some response from the Tories.
BTW I expect to vote SNP so I do not claim to be unbiased or hiding my light under a bushel.
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handclapping - I'd like to think you were being ironic but i'm not going to grant such grace. Can you keep your ageist observations to yourself please.
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12. At 4:38pm on 09 Apr 2010, JRMacClure wrote:
"Simple contrition would have sufficed on this particular occasion - rather than an attempt to implicate others, however much Labour may feel members of other parties are similarly intemperate in spouting noxious, anonymous bile on the web."
Why Brian, you SURELY wouldn't do exactly what you just said in the SAME sentence that the Labour Party shouldn't have done!
I have to say I don't agree with your reading of the above. Mr B's first phrase is an overt criticism of the Labour response, and the rest to me reads like another overt criticism of an attempted Labour sourced justification of the criticised response.
Still, it's no wonder lawyers make a fortune.
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"While waiting for this new post, my online colleagues kept open the responses to an earlier blog to allow you, our readers, to comment. As promised. As delivered".
Aye! Richt!
However, I had three quite innocuous posts withdrawn. I cannot see anything in them to fault, other than they refuted downright lies and sneering insults against the SNP. I have complained to ofcom and will continue to do so. Such obvious bias is not worthy of the UK's public funded broadcaster.
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I would like to thank Brian Taylor and the BBC for providing this excellent site. I would also like one of my blogs to be published.
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How do you get away with it (you know who you are Jeanne). I even think of a rude word and I get booted out!
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So Blether with Brian is going to stay open for a few minutes longer to allow reply's to posters. Should we all swoon with delight, or should we just tug our forelock and say "thanks to the neutral, hard question asking BBC"
A Scottish political blog gets to stay open a few more minutes, the other political blogs are like Ronnie Barkers shop, open all hours. Mind you we really should know our place.
Will this be followed by the BBC like Cheesegate was, and will all posts be allowed a reply?
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SMALL ORGANISATIONS ARE BEST
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So as usual New Labour has shot itself in both feet - please Brian why is that newsworthy, it is now seen as the norm.
Now if you were talking about ex-MPs from Glasgow who back pocketed in excess of £500K, were given 'ill health retirement' and a lump sum now being brought to book by New Labour - that would be newsworthy.
How about the NEC suspending the Glasgow City Council Labour Party until allegations of corruption and nepotism have been investigated, that would be news.
But a young lad with a loose and unpleasant mouth being booted out of a seat Labour will struggle to hold on to their deposit is 'news'... I don't think so.
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"Simple contrition would have sufficed on this particular occasion - rather than an attempt to implicate others, however much Labour may feel members of other parties are similarly intemperate in spouting noxious, anonymous bile on the web."
The attempt to implicate others is pretty much standard operating procedure. What would be truly reprehensible, if true, is that senior British Labour Party figures were aware of this unacceptable and are now seeking to deny this. In my view that would be an infinitely more serious offence than Stuart MacLennan's rather infantile behaviour.
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14. At 4:43pm on 09 Apr 2010, JRMacClure wrote:
For anyone who believes that the reason for shutting down a politic blog (for four days at one point) was to "wait for a new post", I do still have that nice shiny bridge in Brooklyn for sale--cheap.
There might be a simple answer here:
Moderating this site costs money. Somebody's got to sit and read through every post before it's made available worldwide. The UK Libel laws are well documented as being open to exploitation from the - suppress anything against my agenda lobby, or simple chancers. The BBC would have to bear the cost of defending actions re posts that someone, anywhere finds objectionable, or just a potential source of cash. One big litigation against the BBC woujld likely shut down all these forums forever.
To check this particular one effectively, they're going to have to have a trained Scot on hand - all the time it is active - to vet the stuff that comes in. They can't palm it off to stringers in London. They - quite correctly - need to allow Scottish dialect - and to vet it you have to understand it.
An example. Many threads back a post was made, talking about dialect, including a phrase from around my point of origin. A few miles west or north, or more likely, a few years of time could have changed the sense significantly - so I'm by no means suggesting the poster was necessarily testing the mods, but my literal translation would have been:
"That girl's not very attractive. I'd rather have sex with a root vegetable."
And if there's an adjective I'd attach to that translation, it would be "bowdlerised."
There's an election on now too, they - the BBC - are, or should be walking on broken glass. Maybe if the job was advertised, and piece work rates applied, they could continue a blog forever.
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Brian,
Neither my glass of tea nor yours, I suspect, but I'm surprised you haven't linked to this newfangled Tweetminster thingy so that we can all judge the evidence for ourselves.
Not a huge shock to see the Mirror journo Kevin Maguire twittering: "Who was right? Brown sacks Stuart MacLennan, Cameron keeps Chris Grayling"
Much as I dislike Mr Grayling, I Would not put the culumnies of the two in quite the same league. More to the point, why does the BBC seek out Mr Maguire's opinions on air quite so frequently? Haven't we heard his name before in connection with Labour slurs?
Sorry if someone has already posted this but with the current speed of moderation there's bound to be some overlap.
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Thanks for keeping the previous blog open Brian. While you in your 'Jim'll fix it' mood. Can you have a word with your colleagues in BBC Scotland Sport writers and let then know that it isn't only Celtic and Rangers who play each week.
Do I detect a note of frustration, in your writings, concerning the Labour party or is this just another tactic to keep the SNP off the news? I think it may be some of the former and a touch more of the latter. To expand the scenario a little further, it would seem that both Labour and the Tories are going through a radical clean out of their MPs and, in this case, prospective MPs. In a way it is a good thing that both parties are getting rid of their 'snouts in the trough' MPs it's just a pity that it took them so long. To be fair the largest party in the Scottish parliament has not found a need to rid itself of self centred egotists. Is this another way to show the voters that the SNP are different from the two 'main' parties, in the UK? The SNP doesn't need a clean out as it is staffed by people who have a passion for what they do. They have a goal to acheive for their country. It's a shame that the two 'main' parties, in the UK, cannot claim the same.
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FWIW there's an archive of the "Last 639 tweets from Stuart MacLennan @StuartMacLennan up until twitter account was closed..." here.
If for nothing else, one must admire his prescience in tweeting: "Iain Dale reckons the biggest gaffes will likely be made by candidates on Twitter - what are the odds it'll be me?"
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Can see it now, Murphy and Grayman Twittering ; as somebody else remarked ,"do two twits add up to one tt ". No doubt this will be removed as offensive, but it's no more offensive than having your electronic space invaded by these two .( if you are so inclined )
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#34. At 6:45pm on 09 Apr 2010, WestCountryScot wrote:"Maybe if the job was advertised, and piece work rates applied, they could continue a blog forever".
There is only one thing that shoots that out of the water. The ONLY blog that gets shut down is THIS one.
The same goes for the withdrawn posts on this blog, while the other party supporters get away with almost anything, quite innocuous posts by SNP supporters are withdrawn. I had several stopped that did no more than correct downright lies or protest at downright sneering insults made against Scots. Without doubt such censorship is against the BBC's charteror.
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According to various reports Scottish Labour's General Secretary took the decision to suspend McLennan's membership of the party. Out of curiousity, who is "Scottish Labour's general secretary"? I wasn't aware there was such a thing as a "Scottish Labour Party" so what is this person General Secretary of? Is there a salary? If so, might this be one reason why Labour are so strapped for cash in this election - because they're paying people to do non-existent jobs?
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Re: Maclennan - am I the only one who thinks it's a little odd that the Pro-Rangers bias in some of his tweets isn't being reported as widely as the content of others. Guido has details. His use of the word 'vom' in one Tweet is, I think, especially indicative of the intellectual and moral standards on display here.
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It really is a delight to see the galactically stupid exposed like this. It fills my heart with joy to see Labour and the unionist mindset continue to be unmasked in such a way.
I would question the character of ANYONE who continues to support the Labour party but things such as this and Salmond hate facebook page is actually helpful. It shine's a bright light on just how nasty and meanspirited some of these people are. And we’re to believe they want the best for Scotland?
If the likes of McLennan are indicative of the type of person who is attracted to New Labour (and I believe he is) then it will not be long before the party’s demise is complete. I once supported Labour, but they betrayed everyone and I’ll dance on the grave of this despicable movement.
I honestly think Labour in Scotland are in for a bigger kicking in Scotland than people expect this time.
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I'm only slightly shocked that my #37 has been "auto-referred" as it did link to an archive of the "Last 639 tweets from Stuart MacLennan @StuartMacLennan up until twitter account was closed..." which clearly means that some of the bad language used by that "gentleman" would be visible.
If, however, it is BBC policy to remove links to unpleasant material, it should first put its own house in order and remove all links to Twitter from the BBC website and close its own Twitter sites such as http://twitter.com/BBCElection in particular.
Will the BBC's slogan for the teenies be "Back to a Reithian future"?
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If for nothing else, one must admire MacLennan's prescience in tweeting: "Iain Dale reckons the biggest gaffes will likely be made by candidates on Twitter - what are the odds it'll be me?"
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40. Bandages_For_Konjic
"who is "Scottish Labour's general secretary"?"
Colin Smyth
Hope that helps.
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To all those holding their breath for 17 thru 20. Breathe out now...........
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35. Kevin Maguire via Brownedov
"Who was right? Brown sacks Stuart MacLennan, Cameron keeps Chris Grayling"
You are right of course that the actions of the two are not directly comparable, but I would still argue that Grayling should have been given his jotters for his remarks. The fact he isn't going, as well as the fact Camreon failed to mention gays in his County Hall speech tells us all we need to know about these "new" Tories.
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Brian said: "That goes without saying - and indeed should have gone without being said."
So Brian, why did BBC Scotland News tonight have to put in the slimey little addendum at the end of their article that the SNP had also been involved in such antics? They just can't miss an opportunity can they?
If that was in the interests of impartiality, it seems that the BBC type of impartiality is totally one sided.
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#45: Electric Hermit -
Thank you. Now, what does he do, when he's not turfing spotty wee hoodlums out of the party? As I said before, I wasn't aware that there was a 'Scottish Labour' executive committee or any such thing for him to be 'General Secretary'of.
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"Labour dithered about.........."
This dithering has been the hallmark of Gordon Browns - soon to come to an end - leadership. He dithered when challenged to go to the country when first elevated to PM. I bet he wished he had now!
As for ‘anonymous bile‘...I remember Henry McLeish being caught with the microphone left on......these Fifer's are all the **!!!!*** same!
p.s. ex Kirkcaldy HS late 1960's
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As a 'coffin dodger', to say I'm not impressed is to put it mildly.
I await a visit from a Scottish Labour canvasser!
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49. Bandages_For_Konjic
"Now, what does he do"
Writes Iain Gray's questions to ask at FMQ's or works the strings.
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#51. At 8:13pm on 09 Apr 2010, Hugo of Garven wrote:"As a 'coffin dodger', to say I'm not impressed is to put it mildly. I await a visit from a Scottish Labour canvasser"!
Aye! Me too and my MP is Gordon Brown. Perhaps his wife, who seems to have had some involvement with the evil mouthed one, might be on hand to ask about that little incident.
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#34 "To check this particular one effectively, they're going to have to have a trained Scot on hand - all the time it is active - to vet the stuff that comes in. They can't palm it off to stringers in London. They - quite correctly - need to allow Scottish dialect - and to vet it you have to understand it."
I'll express my surprise now if this post appears under this username. I was told sometime ago that my user name is unsuitable although I had posted previously under it. I read the username guidelines but could not understand reason for unsuitability. I wrote to moderators requesting explanation and pointing out that clachangowk is local dialect meaning village idiot or similar.I did not receive reply. I can only assume that dialect is not acceptable.
I have entered this post using my e-mail address. If it appears under username clachangowk, I confess it is all way beyond my understanding
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I listened to your "i'll talk for most of the time" programme on Radio Scotland, most classic moment I have ever heard, where one member of the audience get to ask a question Brian butts in talks over the top, then when he was done, goes back to the person and says oh sorry ask your question and the bloke replies "no", you were doing lots of oohing and ahhing about questions today ooh good question , not one question on the Glasgow City scandal though
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52. cynicalHighlander
He's not up to that they'll leave that poisoned chalice to 'O I'm A Spin'[anag]
This particularly odious little individual will return to his day job of posting infantile vile bile on the various blogs and comments pages of this and other media outlets in Scotland.
AM2 anyone?
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#52: CynicalHighlander -
Just a minute - we know who writes Iain Gray's questions for FMQs? Didn't Alex Salmond get hold of an email, he was waving it around in the Parliament a month or two back, from a female Labour researcher. Iain Gray'd recited them, word for word, as I recall - or so it was claimed. Fairly certain her name wasn't Colin Smyth.
So he doesn't do much then, would that be fair to say? Wonder how much he gets paid?
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Go on! Free the 17 to 20 four.
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Having just read some of the tweetering I have tosay that the SNP bloggers (most of them funny)have done nothing even approaching the despicable level of this stuff. Even the silly old SNP begger who merely speculated on the death of a young man holds no position of any sort in the SNP yet he is being disciplined.
On thwe Chris Grayling affair may I point out that he was merely underlining tj he right of B&B owners to refuse entry to whomsoever they like in their home. This is a right enjoyed, for instance, by publicans and I would not think of running a B&B without this right.
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The STV 6.o clock news have a fuller picture of twittergate, including Jim Murphy backing him as a candidate at 10.00am.
http://moridura.blogspot.com/2010/04/scottish-labour-candidate-sacked-for.html
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A question about your broadcast from Greenock today.
Who did the sitting arrangement for the audience?
It was glaringly obvious to everybody else there that there was small knot exclusively of Labour supporters placed nearest to the microphones.
Is there no depths to which the fifth column in the BBC will not stoop?
I see the Labour Party are wisely using David Cairns again. Smurfy's a media disaster area.
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I watched both STV & BBC "Scotland" news. STV had both Lurch & the Greyman saying that Maclennan would remain, implying that the offending peices were little more than youthful High Jinks. Then went on to show Lurch rewriting history, explaining why he had to go.
Maclennan, that is.
Curiously, the "National Channel" only showed the second piece.
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Having now, I hope, more or less caught up on the MacLennan story, I am surprised that this website has no video covering the news but at the time of writing heads the Scotland Video and Audio with a story telling us that "The biggest exhibition of work by the artists known as the Glasgow Boys opens this week."
In contrast, STV have an excellent 2m46s summary of the day's events with their Labour candidate sacked over foul-mouthed tweets. This includes one excellent snippet of dour Iain Gray and two of the viceroy at their risible best. First defending MacLennan at the "launch" and later berating him after Duff Gordon's edict was apparently made with unusual alacrity. Ponsonby has a similar problem to Brian's and cannot bear to miss the chance to show a few screenshots of a former vile blogger but at least ends the report with the apposite words: "a shambolic day for Scottish Labour"
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The absurd outrage and cynical rightousness of this blog post and indeed coverage of this "story" as a whole is just not helpful to our democratic processes. Lets take a deep breath and look at precisely what was written and how different it is to many of the comments or third rate comedy we have all (yes even you Brian) thrown away with unthinking ease.
He said the woman opossite him on the train was ugly.
He called old people "coffin dodgers", a quip I heard used on Blackadder the other day.
He said, tounge in cheeck and clearly not seriously, that his poorly tasting organic banana would be better if it was "slave grown, genetically enhanceed". Give me a Billy Connolly sketch or even Boris Johnston and I will give you a comment more offensive to the power of 10.
He said a bunch of young teenagers in tracksuits sitting about swearing where chavs. I mean that is the name for their social group isnt it?
A journalist sifted through a years worth of tweetts to find these comments. Comments which do not detract from his political ability, adminsitrative talents, knowledge of polciy etc. Political talent is been driven from our representative bodies by a deep clean of eccentricity, character or humour and then we have the collective cultural temerity to complain about our android politicians, uninspiring and swirling with anti-charisma. Churchill would have been dust, Bevan a political no-hope, Lioyd George would have been busted.
In the words of Cardinal de Richelieu "If you give me six lines written by the most honest man, I will find something in them to hang him."
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no.34 WestCountryScot
Point of order. There is no such thing as "UK Libel Law"
CC
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60. dubbieside
Ta for that no doubt the Labour party media channel will edit those bits.
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#59. At 9:01pm on 09 Apr 2010, sneckedagain wrote:"On thwe Chris Grayling affair may I point out that he was merely underlining tj he right of B&B owners to refuse entry to whomsoever they like in their home. This is a right enjoyed, for instance, by publicans and I would not think of running a B&B without this right".
Matter of fact - the right to do business, of any sort, by any business is they can accept or reject anyone the choose. They have no need to even give a reason.
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STV have another short clip where Gordon Brown discusses the sacking of Labour candidate. Not unexpectedly he ignores Bradby's question re why it took Labour 24 hours from when the story broke to sack MacLennan, but simply claims he acted after having "seen the comments a very short time ago". Unless the Sarah Brown who was a Twitter follower of MacLennan is an imposter, this seems extraordinary, and the foul language carries a whiff of that shown to have been used by McBride.
More importantly, though, Duff Gordon cannot bring himself to say more than MacLennan made "mistakes". If a quarter of MacLennan's comments now in the public domain are true, it strikes me as very much worse than that. I can imagine the BBC hoping the story will "go away" over the week-end, but I rather suspect that STV, ITV, Sky and Channel 4 will be a little more dogged.
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One of the tweets.
"One of MacLennan’s tweets bragged: Tonight @ross_macrae taught me the various different versions of “We will follow Rangers”."
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#62 Gaelstorm
"Curiously, the "National Channel" only showed the second piece."
And equally curiously, Channel 4 only provide the viceroy's "naughty boy" speech on their Labour sacks candidate over Twitter comments. Wonder which one is set to become his political epitaph?
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65. CassiusClaymore
Re your dilemma over tactical voting on previous thread. From a personel perspective by going down that road one admits that only a 2 party state is the possible. When I started voting for the SNP in Moray back in the late 60's it was a small party and look where it is today up here, a war can be won by small skirmishes eating away at the establishment.
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Sky's take on MacLennan is: Wannabe MP Sacked For Sweary Tweet Attacks
The video contains only post-sacking analyis but the page itself also shows many of the offensive tweets, sanitised with myriad asterisks.
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49. Bandages_For_Konjic
"Thank you. Now, what does he do, when he's not turfing spotty wee hoodlums out of the party? As I said before, I wasn't aware that there was a 'Scottish Labour' executive committee or any such thing for him to be 'General Secretary'of. "
Labour unveils new top official
Love this,
"Scottish Labour leader Wendy Alexander praised Mr Smyth's expertise in "modern campaigning" techniques."
The poor dear just can't help herself.
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I'm one person who is glad our immature little man has been booted out of the Labour Party. It may have only been a year ago, but he was a student then. How on earth can someone with practically zero experience of the real world ever aspire to be a politician (and I include several current MPs in that statement). How does he deal with real constituency issues?
As we live in a democracy, people are quite rightly afforded these opportunities. But are you telling me that the Labour Party does not have sufficient suitable candidates that they decide to go for "yoof"?
The "yoof" appeal is starting to wear a little bit thin. People can now see that image rather than substance has been used. Nick Clegg is a prime example. In Cable the Lib Dems have got a stronger individual as leader. But no, they plump for the dashing young man, who turns out to be incapable of keeping his temper under control in a minor tv interview, and reminds me of a recruitment consultant (I used to be one!). Cameron is not much better. Even the SNP made a bit of foray into that territory with their Glasgow NE candidate. Hopefully they will return to picking a candidate based on merit.
Little aside which will upset the Lib Dem voters here. In EK the local paper showed the four main parties who will contest Adam Ingram's seat: Conservatives, SNP, Labour and.......wait for it........the Greens!
Oh dearie me........
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Three astute sentences from the always readable Moridura's take on all this:
"By definition, MacLennan was the best man Scottish Labour could find to contest this seat. What must the unsuccessful candidates have been like?" and "MacLennan has been spewing his bile on Twitter for a year now, but it took the launch of a general election campaign for Labour, late in the day, to notice what has been going on in this man's head."
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Since our state broadcaster still ignores a MAIN political party here in Scotland at least some people are willing to keep democracy alive.
STV to broadcast Scottish leaders' election debate
On Tuesday April 20, STV will broadcast the first Scottish leaders' debate of the campaign.
It will interesting to see the viewing figure.
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#40 Bandages_For_Konjic:
who is "Scottish Labour's general secretary"? I wasn't aware there was such a thing as a "Scottish Labour Party"
There is a Scottish Executive and a Scottish General Secretary in the British Labour Party regional organisation in Scotland though there isn't a leader as such nor a "Scottish Labour Party". The Scottish Executive is equivalent to a regional party office in England.
In the British Labour Party Rule Book which serves as the Labour Constitution it states:
Clause II, 2, D:
In Scotland, Wales and each of the English regions there shall be established: a Scottish Labour, Wales Labour or regional party office; a Scottish executive, Welsh executive or regional board; and a European constituency labour party. There may also be established a Scottish, Welsh or regional women’s committee and a regional BAME members' section.
The link to the pdf of the rulebook is at the bottom of this page in Wikipedia.
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MPs slam BBC over pay deals for its top radio presenters
I wonder which ones? any idea Brian.
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no.71 cynicalhighlander
I agree, hence my angst. I've always voted SNP til now, and I am a monthly direct debit funder of the SNP.
But - I am also a pragmatist.....and I have always felt that a Tory govt with no mandate in Scotland is optimum for the further transfer of power.
CC
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#74 enneffess. Absolutely right. Murphy, the governer general, and the greyman blamed his youthful inexperience for his pathetic views. But they reckoned he should stand for election and represent Moray. That tells you as much about Labour. It is OK to represent our people whilst holding repugnant views.
Freedom
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Jim Murphy was following him on the 'Scotland Office' account! Watch Guy News on guido.
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58. bmc875
"Go on! Free the 17 to 20 four."
Yes!
Come on mods! I can't even remember what i posted any more.
Free the the posts!!!!!
Tell me a mod didn't take their work home for the weekend ;)
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61. sneckedagain
"Is there no depths to which the fifth column in the BBC will not stoop?"
No.
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43. Brownedov
"I'm only slightly shocked that my #37 has been "auto-referred" "
That's really bad!
Let's try again - last 639 tweets
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Followers on twitter:
edballs4mp johnprescott BenPBradshaw johndenhammp ScotlandOffice
campbellclar..(alistair) SarahBrown10 SallyBercow wendy alexander
kerry4mp.
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You have to hand it to ITN News. They gave chapter and verse on the MacLennan affair. They showed what was said by MacLennan, with the f-words blanked out, but pretty clear what the full text was. The insults to pensioners. They reported that Labour party ministers had known the nature of the blog for some time. They even gave the clips showing Murphy to be a total fool, firstly one where he said MacLennan was still fit to be an MP, then a later one where Murphy said he had to go, for what he had said and, BBC Scotland take note, Not a word about the SNP blogs.
You have to ask what use BBC Scotland are to Scotland when they can't even give a decent account of a news item like this because their main motivation is to cover up for the Labour Party. It's time that heads rolled at the top of BBC Scotland for continuing to play this biased political game. When are sackings going to take place?
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79. CassiusClaymore
This site might help in weighing up your decision.
Renfrewshire East
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82. mrbfaethedee
"I can't even remember what i posted any more."
You'll need to submit an FOI to release the text of what you wrote!
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#9 "The Labour candidate in Moray ought to stay focussed on Angus Robertson's thin explanations about RAF Airfields after independence."
er.....and now that the US and Russia are best of chums, why do we need these (cold war) airfields? Scotland is dotted with them and I used to work on one myself (now closed for the self same reason - cold war over). That's life - time for change and all that!
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#86 CH - I love it. Now if they didn't know what he was saying and not reading his stuff, but on his twitter list, then how could they be described?
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74. enneffess
"The "yoof" appeal is starting to wear a little bit thin."
I get the sense of where you're coming from nfs, but i think you're being overly general.
I think that there are many young men and women who could be great servants for our country enneffess.
I think that an inadequate filtering process predicated on a definition of 'yoof' arrived at by stodgy old career politicians is the heart of the problem.
btw - I didn't think there was great deal wrong with Kerr. Cable is grotesquely overrated. Although, on reflection, still a long way better than Cleggy.
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So I got busted by the mods, either cos I made another suggestion about who people should vote for in a particular constituency or because I suggested:
Labour and Tory - proven failure and potential disaster.
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79. CassiusClaymore
"But - I am also a pragmatist.....and I have always felt that a Tory govt with no mandate in Scotland is optimum for the further transfer of power."
Cassius - you are probably right about that.
But I'm with cynicalhighlander - if you want SNP, vote SNP. Over time SNP support will grow in areas where it needs to as people see it grow, over time your actual choice will have an effect. I'll not rudely chip in again (this is #2), and i'm sure there are many tactical reasons to be given in place of voting as a direct expression of your democratic choice.
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86. cynicalHighlander
"ScotlandOffice"
I can understand why another Labour candidate - edballs4mp - would be a follower, but the Scotland Office?????
Why is a Government Department following the twitters of a Labour Candidate? Is Skeletor checking them all himself? Is a Civil Servant doing it - at our expense?
Is there a way of finding out all the Twits that the Scotland Office is a follower of (apart from the obvious one)?
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89. oldnat
"You'll need to submit an FOI to release the text of what you wrote!"
Oh thanks a lot! Now my posts are expected to contain information ;)
In all seriousness, i'm looking forward to getting my email from them so I can see the content again. I'm beginning to suspect the same mod who's doing 'the four' is the person from the Central Communities team from whom I'm awaiting further response re my last post on the previous thread :)
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43. Brownedov
"I'm only slightly shocked that my #37 has been "auto-referred" as it did link to an archive of the "Last 639 tweets from Stuart MacLennan @StuartMacLennan up until twitter account was closed..." which clearly means that some of the bad language used by that "gentleman" would be visible."
I tried too (my #84, i think) - mods won't let it through.
Utter joke mods!!!!!!!
You cannot be serious! That was not over the line!
(with apologies to the Mac).
Seriously this is being covered in news outlets elsewhere and is in the public domain in various forms - I can barely contain my sense of anticipation at the asinine reason for moderation which will no doubt be winging it's way to my inbox within the next wee while...
Seriously mods who are you, students? recent graduates? Is it tedious work following the super-sanitised rules for moderation on this blog? Keep doing it btw, everybody's got to earn a living. Still, must suck a bit - you can find a way to tell us, i know you can find a way.
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96. mrbfaethedee
Alas if "This comment is awaiting moderation" you don't get an email. You have simply been electronically altered from a cybernat to a limbonat (mind you, limbo has advantages - you can dance below a very low bar without spilling your drink. :-) )
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
#86 cynicalhighlander ,evening ,yep a very impressive list of "followers" I would suggest it is more than the A/C holder himself that has made a big mistake here. interesting that not one of his followers thought what he was saying was not acceptable and not one of them did anything about it! can we take it that all his "followers " agreed with the views he portrayed on his twitter a/c or did they just visit once and hope someone else would deal with it??
Sid.
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#74: enneffess -
"The "yoof" appeal is starting to wear a little bit thin."
What's 'wearing a bit thin', in my opinion, is the rapid promotion of these 'bright young things' from the University/Youth wing of the party, via internships or low paid researcher jobs, to political candidacy.
Now - caveat, many of the brightest and most lasting achievements of this, or any other nation, have been achieved by young people acting on what they believe in. And there's nothing in Mclennan's Twitter posts to suggest he wasn't, wholeheartedly, a Labour 'believer'. Further caveat, no-one, realistically was expecting Maclennan to win in Moray so it wasn't as though he was being automatically promoted into office
However, what does it say about the Labour Party (or, indeed, any party) that they would promote someone who has never, it seems, been trusted with a position of serious responsibility in his life as being fit and capable of taking responsibility for the welfare of his constituents. What's he supposed to know about them, their lives, their successes and/or troubles. How was supposed to act on their behalf when, evidently, he still hasn't learned how to act responsibly on his own behalf.
I don't blame Stuart Mclennan for being an idiot. The world's full of them. I do blame the Party, it's national and
local representitives, it's selection system and the wider (Non-Labour specific) indoctrination and patronage that pulls these kids out of Uni, immerses them in a party 'mirror world' that distorts their understanding of reality and teaches them little or nothing about the lives and experiences of 'real' voters and then sends them out, their heads full of claptrap and spin to take charge of whole communities.
Moray deserved a better candidate. Scotland deserves a better politics.
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98. oldnat
"You have simply been electronically altered from a cybernat to a limbonat (mind you, limbo has advantages - you can dance below a very low bar without spilling your drink. :-) )"
I can usually get around to spilling a drink, but dancing is beyond me!
:)
'Night oldnat et al...
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95. oldnat
The mods didn't like my response, wierdos protecting their political masters.
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101. Bandages_For_Konjic
"Moray deserved a better candidate. Scotland deserves a better politics."
I knew there canditate in the 80's and things haven't changed, self serving odious characters throughout.
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The Campaign for Human Rights at Glasgow Uni
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# 101 Bandages_For_Konjic
"Moray deserved a better candidate. Scotland deserves a better politics."
Absolutely. The Labour Party could hardly have chosen a more unsuitable candidate for this constituency if it had tried, and the Scottish Labour leadership could hardly have made bigger fools of themselves today if they had tried.
In Labour's defence, they cannot seriously have expected to win Moray. MacLennan was just a tyro sent in to be knocked down and gain some experience in the by-going, like Jack McConnell in Perth and Kinross in 1987, although I think Jack had more respect for other people than Mr MacLennan has shown.
One takes no pleasure in this Moray episode. It is as sad as it is bad. Fascinating, though, so far as the media are concerned. Even Le Figaro and Europe 1 have been lapping it up. Had not expected ever to see them get excited about Moray. But there you go.
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59. Sneckedagain
On thwe Chris Grayling affair may I point out that he was merely underlining tj he right of B&B owners to refuse entry to whomsoever they like in their home. This is a right enjoyed, for instance, by publicans and I would not think of running a B&B without this right.
Then I wouldn't go opening a B&B any time soon because as it stands you have no such right.
If I book a double room, then turn up with another man, not giving me the keys would run contrary to The Equality Act (Sexual Orientation) Regulations 2007.
Likewise a publican can refuse to serve someone because they've already had too much, or because they are behaving violently, or even because they put their feet on the table, but not because he is black or because he is kissing his boyfriend in the corner.
In the case of a pub, I think most people would just go elsewhere if it was apparent they aren't welcome, but if you have booked a room for the night, you shouldn't be turned away because of who you want to share the room with.
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29. bmc875
"How do you get away with it (you know who you are Jeanne). I even think of a rude word and I get booted out!"
Who? Me?! *does her very best innocent look*
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59. sneckedagain
"On thwe Chris Grayling affair may I point out that he was merely underlining tj he right of B&B owners to refuse entry to whomsoever they like in their home. This is a right enjoyed, for instance, by publicans and I would not think of running a B&B without this right."
I have to disagree. Because it is not WHO the people are but what their lifestyle is. And you want to tell me HOW this person judges that by someone walking in the door? Two men walk in to share a room. Unless they TELL you they are gay and what they intend to do in the room, how do you actually know that?
The person is acting on pure prejudice. And many Christians (and people of other religions) may and do object to heterosexual sex at many times--if you're not married, certain types of "non-procreative" sex including the use of contraceptives. Do they have the right to decide by looking at me when I walk in to rent a room that I look like the TYPE to use contraceptives (because they happen to be Catholic) so they shouldn't rent me a room?
They don't like the fact that I'm American (and I assure you there is some unpleasant bile thrown at Americans though most want the money we bring more than they hate us) so they decide not to rent to me?
If someone is like that I would probably prefer not to do business with them, but in the middle of Rannock Moor I might not be in a mood to be picky either if someone is about to kick me out into a bog. (ok, an exaggeration, but you get my point)
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28. bmc875
"I would like to thank Brian Taylor and the BBC for providing this excellent site. I would also like one of my blogs to be published."
Tsk. They knew what you were thinking when you typed it. ;-)
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23. john
"#16 JR
You have to be able to thank people otherwise your criticisms mean nothing. That is something that labour have not learned in the Scottish parliment.
I am uneasy about demanding sackings because I can picture how a feading frenzy can develop and can be used to get rid of plenty of people (on both sides) who have not done anything remotely as bad, but have maybe stretched the line. Where do you think such a feeding frenzy may be disproportionally directed?
after all, if you sow the wind, you must be prepared to reap the whirlwind, etc. etc. and is everyone on your side whiter than white?"
Reaping the wind is EXACTLY what Labour is doing after the feeding frenzy of their attacks on SNP bloggers--including, let me remind you, one who was fired. We Americans put it pretty simply: What goes around comes around.
As for the forelock tugging comment, that was just my own reaction to the general situation not an attempt to say you were doing any such thing even though I was replying to your comment. No insult was intended.
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CynicalHighlander
"I knew there canditate in the 80's and things haven't changed, self serving odious characters throughout."
I assume that your not referring to McLennann there? Just that back in those days i would suggest that he was barely old enough to speak let alone being self serving and odious!?!?
I think there are two issues here, firstly a lot of the tweets reported have been unfortunate at best and downright vile at worst, this said however 99% of his tweets were benign day to day general crap that you get from all twits. Id also say that in many cases some of them appear to be firmly tongue in cheek (lets be honest Paulo Nutini and Louis are definitely as described)
The second is with regards to who knew and when, the majority of these politicians and public figures are rarely on twitter if ever in person, and when they are i very much doubt they go and read back through every tweet of every person they follow. I'll admit now that i follow (or followed seeing as the account is now gone) McLennan as someone that takes an interest in local politics and i hadent seen half the offensive tweets and i spend a lot of time on the damn syte!
Oh yeah personally im am fundamentally against the use of social networking sytes being used as political tools they should firmly be used for what they were intended namely for insulting friends and family from outwith slapping distance and keeping a tab on celebrities without fear of injuction.
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#96 Interesting. I too have challenged my recent 'moderations'. I have also challenged 2 rejected complaints to the BBC.
Now!
Did I tweet sweary words? Noap
Did I tweet anti catholic songs? Noap
Did I tweet about our Senior Citizens? Noap
Did I question the BBC? Yep.
"Release the four!" (If only, like mrb, so that I can see what disgraceful things I wrote!)
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#109
At no point did I mention anything about "gay" so you are completely missing the point.
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#101. At 00:14am on 10 Apr 2010,Bandages_For_Konjicwrote:"What's 'wearing a bit thin', in my opinion, is the rapid promotion of these 'bright young things' from the University/Youth wing of the party, via internships or low paid researcher jobs, to political candidacy".
The whole problem comes down to the party system at Westminster. If you look at the actual legal setup on the Westminster website you see the real rules of the institution. It states the candidatre stand ONLY to represent the constituency. There is no requirement to belong to a party. In fact parliament only acknowledges parties exist. Even the party system has been changing through the years and, from around Thatcher's time, this system of a PM acting like an all powerful president has led towards the UK becoming a two party system with each party more intent on beating down the other party than attending to the people's best interests. So we have now arrived at the place where hate the enemy overtakes everything else. So these young guys, with no real life experiance, know nothing else except hate the others.
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Stuart Maclennan. I hear he is going on tour with Frankie Boyle.
Alex Salmond. 'Sweary words'. Whatever next.
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Who knew what and when?
Purcellgate: Close Labour colleagues, council officials and even No. 10 knew of Steven Purcell's personal problems ............ but did nothing.
Twittergate: Labour ministers, Labour MSPs and Labour members followed Stuart MacLennan's fouled-mouthed twitterings ............. but did nothing.
Does Labour think that they can get away with such crass and criminal behaviour because they believe that we Scots are all idiots?
Yes they do!
To vote for Labour now means you meet one of Stuart MacLennan's descriptions.
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In fairness to "sneckedagain" 61, the BigDebate was good, and although there were a lot of pro-Labour types in the room, I think the BBC did manage impartiality as best they could with regards the audience, so either people were lying about their party affiliation, or there's just a lot of pro-Labour non-members in Greenock…
Could go either way there…
The audience near the mics were actually fairly balanced. On the left hand side front row, there were two BBC staff (both deaf interpreters I think) and myself, an SNP member. On the right hand side, a cabal of Labour folks.
Directly behind me were the Gourock conservatives, who incidentally really should learn to talk quieter when discussing their in-depth campaign plans for the last 4 weeks of the election, and to surrounding them a few SNP peoples…
Don't know if there were many Lib-Dem members.
If you want to talk about impartiality, ask yourself why no candidates were allowed to attend at all, because it wasn't a hustings, and yet, there on the panel was the Labour candidate for Greenock&Inverclyde, one David Cairns.
Not exactly impartial that, is it? The sitting Labour MP gets a spot on live national radio, from his constituency, whereas his SNP opponent isn't even allowed in the room…
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I wonder if the former leader of Glasgow council now regrets giving that exclusive interview to the Sun? Bet he thought that the Record would not investigate.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics-news/2010/04/10/police-probe-former-council-leader-steven-purcell-over-50k-grant-86908-22175480/
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109. At 05:57am on 10 Apr 2010, JRMacClure wrote:
"If someone is like that I would probably prefer not to do business with them, but in the middle of Rannock Moor I might not be in a mood to be picky either if someone is about to kick me out into a bog. (ok, an exaggeration, but you get my point)"
If you have found a hotel in the middle of Rannoch Moor the Greens will go mental. Might find a stone to shelter under :-)
On the question of prejudice whether religious or not, people are what they are, and you won't change their beliefs through legislation - you may enforce a code of conduct but they will despise you for it and if you do too much of it as we have done in this country, eventually it will rebound - I give you those who now support the BNP, many of whom I suspect would never have dreamed of it in the past.
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114. Sneckedagain
At no point did I mention anything about "gay"
You didn't but Chris Grayling did, what he was "highlighting" was the right to discriminate based on sexual orientation which does not exist.
109. JRMacClure
If someone is like that I would probably prefer not to do business with them, but in the middle of Rannock Moor I might not be in a mood to be picky either if someone is about to kick me out into a bog. (ok, an exaggeration, but you get my point)
It doesn't have to be as extreme as that for a tourist, me and my then-girlfriend were refused entry to a room while in Georgia because I hadn't mentioned we weren't married when I'd booked. When you don't know the area, and it's already dark, Atlanta may as well be Rannoch moor.
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121. Sheneval
you may enforce a code of conduct but they will despise you for it and if you do too much of it as we have done in this country, eventually it will rebound - I give you those who now support the BNP, many of whom I suspect would never have dreamed of it in the past.
In the past when it was acceptable to have a sign saying "no blacks, no dogs, no irish" in the window?
I don't think we've created more bigots, there are just fewer places that will tolerate them.
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It's a grubby job, but somebody has to do it....
Unsurprised that this website's What the Scottish papers say has not been updated since 06:18 GMT Friday, and so does not mention Maclennan by name, rather saying that "The Scottish Sun runs allegations that a Labour hopeful posted X-rated online attacks on voters and rivals in a stream of Twitter rants", a visit to the Record's website was necessary to see how the sacking is being handled there.
Despite having a Follow us on twitter link on every page, the "newspaper" clearly feels its readers will have little interest in events in faraway Moray. But it does now have two "articles" covering the swift and admirable decisions by the viceroy and his boss...
Twitter hopeful axed by Labour as Brown vows to fight for Scots, begins "LABOUR acted swiftly yesterday to dump a candidate who described old people as `coffin dodgers´" and goes on to inform us that "Scottish Secretary Murphy went on air to apologise to Moray voters and to sack the candidate" but strangely "forgets" both Murphy's earlier "naughty boy" speech and dour Iain's endorsement.
There's also a "Record View" leader entitled Twit's old news now apparently withdrawn as it gives a 404 error but still visible at the time of writing by searching the site using moray maclennan. Beginning "Labour moved swiftly and decisively to sack Moray election candidate Stuart MacLennan after it emerged he had made offensive comments on Twitter" it goes on to suggest that "MacLennan's dismissal will be swiftly forgotten as the main battleground of the economy comes into sharp focus in the coming days. And it is on this issue, Gordon Brown will demonstrate his fitness for office by contrast to the feckless David Cameron". No surprise there, then.
More surprisingly, they have an ExclusivePolice probe former council leader Steven Purcell over £50k grant, beginning "DRUG shame council boss Steven Purcell is being probed over alleged corruption", it does tell as that an "elite team of detectives are now investigating the claims".
The story is not linked to from any of the election coverage, so far as I can see, but we can live in hope that the Record readership will see that this is not unalloyed joy for "Scottish" Labour's election prospects.
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#120 dubbieside
"I wonder if the former leader of Glasgow council now regrets giving that exclusive interview to the Sun? Bet he thought that the Record would not investigate."
So do I. Sorry to repeat your link - should have refreshed before posting my #124.
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Having considered what readers of the Record will see, we can take some comfort that rather more Scottish Sun readers will be treated to Twit hits the fan, informing us that "Moray candidate MacLennan, 24, was sacked by party chiefs less than two hours after being publicly BACKED by Scots leader Iain Gray in an embarrassing U-turn".
Unusually, the viceroy's part in this is not mentioned. Concern re attention spans, perhaps?
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Guidos blog gives the full scope of MacLennan's utterings. It's even worse than I thought. Also listed are the Labourites who were aware of it.
No hiding place!
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87 hamish42 wrote
"You have to ask what use BBC Scotland are to Scotland when they can't even give a decent account of a news item like this because their main motivation is to cover up for the Labour Party."
That's it in a nutshell I'm afraid. For me they have a use and it's as the broadcating arm of the Labour Party. Nice work if you can get it and even nicer if you can get the supporters of other political parties to pay for it.
This morning I thought I'd have a look at the BBC Ceefax page for Scotland to see how high in the running order Maclennan's sacking was. Not a sign. They buried it as a page 2 of 2 on another political story so that it didn't show up as a headline on the Scotland news.
At times I feel they're doing such a good job for Labour I should really be paying them more.
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Turning to the "quality" (?) press coverage, there seems to be a distinct East/West divide.
The Herald's Sacked candidate’s blogs were ‘unacceptable’, says Brown still uses the "mistake" line and admits that "Labour initially appeared to have rejected calls by opponents for him to be sacked as a candidate" but makes no mention at all of the viceroy or dour Iain.
They don't seem to have a leader or opinion piece on twits, concentrating instead on the "big" picture with their leader: The role of Scots in this crucial election, an unashamedly pro-Labour anti-Tory puff piece that tries hard to ignore the SNP but cannot quite manage it, with snippets like "it risks a backlash which could boost support for the SNP in next year’s Scottish Parliament election" in relation to Tory policy on the Barnett formula and that the L-Ds "must rectify the claim that the contest in Scotland is between Labour and the SNP if it is not to be confined to the margins".
In contrast, the Scotsman's Abusive election hopeful Stuart MacLennan derails Labour has an honest headline and starts off well with "Labour faces more questions". It even manages to highlight dour Iain's tosh as well as the "before" and "after" contributions of the viceroy and has a timeline of the story. All pretty fair, I'd say. One thing I hadn't seen before was a telling quote from Barry Jarvis, a Labour councillor for Elgin City North on Moray Council:
"I never had any reservations about him at all. I was aware he had a Twitter account, I followed him, I assumed it was all meant in a humorous way, as all these things are."
Rather different from rantings about evil cybernats, I suggest.
Strathclyde University's Prof. James Mitchell has an opinion piece: New media claims its first hapless victim – and there will be others which is more dismissive, concluding that: "There will be other mishaps with hapless candidates. Every party has a MacLennan. Some will end up in parliament." No evidence there that the Prof. really understands how pervasive this Twitter thingy has become. It's still in the Sky News headlines as I write.
The Scotsman also has a leader on the topic: More must be done to weed out contempt toward voters. Unfortunately it's a "premium" article, so we're treated to little more than the opening: "EVEN by the informal standards of "Twittering", Stuart MacLennan, the former Labour Party candidate for Moray, broke the bounds of acceptability."
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It must be a measure of its sheer stupidity that latest Labour travesty was given such significant emphasis on even the UK news.
In the Glasgow newsroom, however, Sally Magnusson described Maclennan as the election campaign’s “first victim”!!!
Meanwhile, even as they unveiled the latest reincarnation of their cheap slogan “It’s a two-horse race” – in which, if true, Labour’s is a loose, 3-legged nag, typically lagging half a circuit off the pace – both Gray and Murphy tried to brush off Maclennan’s behaviour as a “mistake”.
For his part, in the wake of the delayed sacking following the dithering, Brown attempted to portray a measure of clear daylight between his party’s values and those of Maclennan.
All of the above adds up to one inescapable point – that Labour, at all levels, is of the belief that the public are wet behind the ears and can be made to swallow almost anything.
Whereas Maclennan was not only known to senior Labour figures, but many, including Sarah Brown, were “followers” of his rants – not one of them considered his twisted views to be sufficiently inappropriate, offensive or inflammatory to affect his supposed suitability as a parliamentary candidate!
All evidence abundantly exposes an individual with ingrained, multiple disdain for so much of society and life outwith his own tiny bubble, that his outpourings of bile should have raised concerns at any level, let alone one asking for the public trust as a purported representative a (mature?) political party.
After the sacking, Jim Murphy even dodged the direct question as to whether all of his party's remaining candidates could be guaranteed to be fit for purpose.
All of which raises further questions about the leadership and core values of the Labour party, let alone its supposed candidate vetting process.
Far from being any kind of aberration, as they would have it, this latest Labour debacle is surely yet another unsavoury insight into the rotten core of a party whose former principles, direction and morals have grossly suffered in favour of a “divine right” to be elected to Westminster.
Although Stuart Maclennan may now be free to resume his cynical outpourings as an anonymous nobody, his twisted mindset – and the fact that he was ever deemed suitable as a parliamentary candidate – reveals a great deal more about the Labour 'vision' than the sound-bites and ineptly delivered utterings of its dithering leadership.
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How Ironic of the Scottish Conservatives to comment so strongly on this issue of the Moray candidates twitter page by saying,
Scottish Conservative leader Annabel Goldie said of the incident: "It was repugnant, insulting and totally in character with Labour's desperate and dirty campaign."
Wasn't it Alberto Costa the conservative candidate for Angus, who recently started a smeer campaign against the SNP, reporting them to the electoral commission for wrong doings, then having to apologise for it, as it was complete and utter sleaze made up to win seats. The only party not playing these dirty tricks is the SNP, who continue to be ignored when they legitimately ask for Glasgow council to be investigated, quite rightfully so. Seems that corruption is still rife in Labour and Conservative parties. I won't be voting for either.
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Despite Angus Macleod being unable to prevent himself from the occasional dig at the FM, his Stuart MacLennan's Twitter abuse sacking gives the advantage to SNP in today's Thunderer is what one might have hoped the BBC could have managed in reporting the story fairly.
Two sentences say it all, really:
"Gordon Brown was forced to disown Mr MacLennan after Labour came under pressure from David Cameron and Mr Salmond." and "So far, there has been precious little evidence of the “Cameron effect” spreading north to Scotland."
Still worth a read, though.
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123. At 10:30am on 10 Apr 2010, FatherMacKenzie wrote
"In the past when it was acceptable to have a sign saying "no blacks, no dogs, no irish" in the window?
I don't think we've created more bigots, there are just fewer places that will tolerate them."
I have to take your word for these signs or at least those against blacks and Irish. I have never seen any but that doesn't mean they didn't exist. In the past in Scotland black people were not a problem at least not in the Gorbals or anywhere else I have lived.
The problems with the Irish people started in the 1800's and I quote from the Ayr Advertiser 19 March 1818:
"Emigration from Ireland to Scotland, and especially this part of the Kindom, of poor unemployed labourers, and also of persons whose business is of a still more equivocal description, has been always, in our remembrance great; and now, instead of time and circumstances having any effect in iits diminuation, it is increasing to a fearful degree. Formerly this emigration proceeded in dozens by the way of Portpatrick, but now it goes on in hundreds, in ship loads, to every port in the west country.
For many weks back hundreds have arrived at the Troon, Irvine, Saltcoats, Ardrossan, and other circumadjacent ports.In our own port, in the course of 48 hours in this same week, three vessels, overloaded with Irishmen and their families have arrived. According to the best information we can obtain, in one vessel there were 50, in another there were 50, and in the third upwards of 80 persons. Some of these vessels were at sea upwards of three weeks, which, added to theirprevious disease and poverty, must have greatly augmented their distress. Were these people free of disease, able and inclined to work, and a sufficiency of work in this country ready for them, there would be less reason for noticing this extraordinary influx; but it is painful to think, that, in very few instances, is this the case. In may cases Typhus fever, which has lately and still continues to scourge Ireland, hangs about them; in but few instances are they both able and inclined to work; and in no instance, in our knowledge, is there room for their obtaining employment, our own unemployed poor being still numerous and reasonably entitled to a preference."
There is more about disease etc. and it goes on to suggest that:
"In this situation it becomes the duty of the magistrates, as guardians of the health as well as the mode of life and morals of the community, to use every exertion in their power to discourage and if possible totally to supress this baneful and ruinous emigration."
Was the reaction of the local populace in Ayrshire due to unreasonable prejudice? I leave you to think about it.
Obviously, over the years most of not all of the bad feelings against the Irish have gone but this was not the result of legislation, but the fact that they were absorbed into the community. There can be few amongst us in the West of Scotland, nearly 200 years on, who do not have some Irish blood in us.
Bigotry and prejudice do not stand in splendid isolation - they are fueled by bad government decisions and nowadays, enhanced by bad law.
To give an example, it matters not one iota to me whether any of mine were attacked and injured by a drunk or evil minded person or whether they were attacked by a bigot. The results are the same to us and deserve the same treatment under the law.
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Apposite Nature Notes from Brookes this week on the newly discovered Iguanored.
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So my bet is that 17 thru 20 will still be awaiting moderation when the bell goes for end of playtime.
Release the four!
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17.-20. Mrbfaethedee, bmc875, cynicalHighlander and me still have comments awaiting moderation after almost 24 hours. Should we take it personally?
All I had said was that Labour has been hoist by its own petard over the Maclennan affair. They chose to make an issue out of "evil cybernats", so Labour will be judged by the standards they claim to uphold.
Regarding Chris Grayling's remarks about the couple who objected to renting a room in their B&B to a gay couple :
If you have a private house and it remains a private space, you have complete freedom to decide who you will or will not allow to stay your home. You do not need to give reasons or explanations. However if you rent out rooms in your home to the general public as a commercial enterprise, your home is no longer a private space, it's a place of business where public rules about fair access to goods and services apply. You have no choice but to allow members of the public to use the space you rent to them for any legal purpose - whether you find what they do objectionable or not. Anything you can legally do in your own bedroom, you can legally do in a room you rent in a B&B or hotel.
If you don't want gay people, red-haired people, Tory voters or people who inist on wearing polyester to come into your home - then don't start a B&B business. It's quite simple really.
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I left my take on the CalMerc's take on the MacLennan story until last, and - more in sorrow than in anger - their Hamish Macdonell's Scots Labour candidate sacked over Twitter insults emulates the BBC and Herald line much more than the rest of the MSM in attempting to play the issue down and avoids any references to the viceroy's and dour Iain's initial attempts to retain him, even though it grudgingly admits: "He has embarrassed his party, dominated the news agenda on a day the Prime Minister is coming to Scotland and knocked the Labour effort off course."
Worth only a C-, I'm afraid.
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132. At 1:14pm on 10 Apr 2010, Brownedov wrote:
Thanks for the link.
I noticed one of the comments following the article referred to a MORI poll that is showing the SNP ahead of Labour in Scotland. The commentator referenced the Holyrood Magazine but I have had a look at their website and can't find it.
Anyone know anthing about this?
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I think all the talk of senior Labour figures 'following' Maclennan's Twitter is a bit redundant. Certainly to anyone who actually uses Twitter. When you use Twitter you sometimes follow pople you don't always agree with - I'm following ALL the major parties and some particularly irritating pople like Eric Pickles.
But the most important point is that the Twitter feed moves so fast when you follow a lot of people that the chances you'd notice ALL of someone's posts are VERY slim. I just think it's a bit silly when a lot of people clearly don't understand Twitter but mouth off about how it works. It's not email, it's like a quick conversation at all the different tables in a pub - just because you're in the room doesn't mean you heard what everyone said.
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#139 impeachblair
"I noticed one of the comments following the article referred to a MORI poll that is showing the SNP ahead of Labour in Scotland."
I've seen lots of inferences about the poll ever since Holyrood Magazine first mentioned it, but my understanding is that so long as the Daily Mail don't publish the MOSI poll, Ipsos MORI are not allowed to publish it.
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Brownedov
Re your comments about Caledonian Mercury. Are you really surprised?
I read all the self hype before it launched and thought that it would be worth a read. In reality it is the Scotsman without the dead tree bit.
I now only visit on Thursday to read Rab. To paraphrase a well known Hollywood film producer "its not worth the paper its not written on"
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142. At 2:49pm on 10 Apr 2010, Brownedov wrote:
Thanks again.
Considering the Mail is such a staunch supporter of the SNP and Scotlands right to independence (sic), their apparent reluctance to publish would seem to suggest that the rumours have some substance.
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The point about 'twittergate' is not that this candidate posted obscene messages but that Labour and the Scottish media set a precedent when they went after one group of online contributors.
Read Newsnet Scotland's article on 'twittergate' here
The BBC in Scotland now appear to be burying the story and none of the Scots on the BBC payroll will pursue those involved.
As always, the story moves - it is now not just about the judgement of Murphy and Gray but is also about Murphy's easily disproven claims that no-one in the Labour party had read the messages when he [Murphy] originally insisted that Maclennan would remain as candidate.
Thus far Mr Murphy has been 'miming' when appearing in front of Scottish microphones, now that he is required to actually 'sing' he is being found wanting.
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Seems the modding is particularly picky this afternoon. My #143 contained neither dubious language nor external links so I'll try again....
#140 Sean Morton
"But the most important point is that the Twitter feed moves so fast when you follow a lot of people that the chances you'd notice ALL of someone's posts are VERY slim."
But wasn't that the reason Ms McCarthy MP was appointed to oversee Labour party activities on Twitter? If it wasn't, perhaps you'd explain to us oldies exactly what her responsibilities were? The Cz or Ts words generally used to describe her role in the MSM apparently cause auto-moderation, so please avoid them in any reply!
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140. Sean Morton
"But the most important point is that the Twitter feed moves so fast when you follow a lot of people that the chances you'd notice ALL of someone's posts are VERY slim. I just think it's a bit silly when a lot of people clearly don't understand Twitter but mouth off about how it works. It's not email, it's like a quick conversation at all the different tables in a pub - just because you're in the room doesn't mean you heard what everyone said.
"
Good try but it doesn't wash. And it happens (for professional reasons) I DO tweet or at least follow others on tweet.
He had at least a dozen people who were high Labour officials on his list and sent out dozens of these disgusting tweets. Now maybe they missed one. But EVERYONE following him missed ALL of them?
Ha! In my own field and from experience I can tell you, it doesn't happen. At least some of these people, probably all of them, noticed at least some of those tweets.
Nice job trying to excuse the Labour party as a whole as being totally unaware of what this man was saying--and let's deal with the excuse that this happened a long time ago: the last tweet on his account before it was canceled was in MARCH 2010.
The truth often being a bit inconvenient.
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Fourth attempt to post the question auto-referred in my #138, #141 and #144. Difficult without being able to use the Cz or Ts word the MSM are so fond of, but here goes.....
"Labour has been eager to use Twitter and other social networking Web sites in the campaign, even appointing one of its lawmakers as a so-called Twitter [banned word meaning controller] to coordinate its online efforts."
This sentence in The Washington Post's Tweet this: You're fired, Brown tells candidate is the only reference I've seen in the MSM reminding me that Labour's Twitter [banned word meaning controller] [as the Grauniad called her], the "former MP and current PPC" [as she calls herself on her de-activated parliamentary website] Kerry McCarthy has been keeping her head well below the parapet over MacLennan. Have you tried getting her take on who reported MacLennan when, Brian?
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#145 dubbieside
"Re your comments about Caledonian Mercury. Are you really surprised? ... In reality it is the Scotsman without the dead tree bit."
No, not really. Sadly true.
Stewart Kirkpatrick did make some valiant efforts initially to move Hamish Macdonell "off-message", but the general election campaign seems to have resulted in both of them reverting entirely to type. As I said, more in sorrow than in anger...
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146. impeachblair
"Considering the Mail is such a staunch supporter of the SNP and Scotlands right to independence (sic), their apparent reluctance to publish would seem to suggest that the rumours have some substance."
The last PUBLISHED Mori/Ipsos Scotland poll back in February made the Mail rather unhappy and they labeled it as a "rogue poll" because it put Labour and the SNP neck in neck with Labour only 2 points ahead at (and well within the margin of error, by the way). That there might have been a poll since that they refuse to publish is possible. I can imagine the reaction if they got a poll putting the SNP ahead.
Subsamples of some national polls hint that that might be the case but the most you can ever get from a subsample is a hint (for a number of reasons Oldnat explains much better than I do--because he understands it better ;) ) so I won't bother with quoting. But it is very possible that the SNP now is in the lead.
But it's still a long way to election day. A week is forever in politics. Almost a month is eons.
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#146 impeachblair
"their apparent reluctance to publish would seem to suggest that the rumours have some substance"
I'd put it just a little stronger than that, since it's not just here and in the Holyrood Magazine but on UKPR and other polling blogs that they were discussed. Had they been entirely without foundation, you can be sure that a flat denial by the Mail would have been given wide coverage in the MSM. The curious incident of the dog in the night-time, and all that.
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152. JRMacClure
"the SNP neck in neck with Labour only 2 points ahead at (and well within the margin of error, by the way). "
PS Oops. Meant to say at 34 Labour/ 32 SNP.
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Re the Mail and the MORI poll - this is my understanding
This is MORIs Scottish Public Opinion Monitor published 1 March 2010 (funded I think jointly between the Mail and the Times). The Times published the story, so that it doesn't matter that the Mail didn't.
Westminster (certain to vote)
Lab 34% : SNP 32% : Con 17% : LD 12%
Holyrood Constituency (certain to vote)
Lab 30% : SNP 36% : Con 14% : LD 15%
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140. Sean Morton
"I think all the talk of senior Labour figures 'following' Maclennan's Twitter is a bit redundant. Certainly to anyone who actually uses Twitter. When you use Twitter you sometimes follow pople you don't always agree with - I'm following ALL the major parties and some particularly irritating pople like Eric Pickles.
But the most important point is that the Twitter feed moves so fast when you follow a lot of people that the chances you'd notice ALL of someone's posts are VERY slim. I just think it's a bit silly when a lot of people clearly don't understand Twitter but mouth off about how it works. It's not email, it's like a quick conversation at all the different tables in a pub - just because you're in the room doesn't mean you heard what everyone said."
Yes, but the criticism of them is not that they failed to notice all of his posts. The point is that among the 'offensive' posts, not one of his high profile followers noticed any of them! How convenient!
The fact that it happened over twitter is irrelevant. A major political party which doesn't monitor the media output of those who speak for it in any official capacity deserves to be torn to bits when these infractions are discovered.
It is the failure of senior figures in his organisation to act. These people aren't following him because they think he's a celeb - they're following him because it's part of their party's communications strategy.
Furthermore, when the story broke his superiors gave him their backing, do you think they are so stupid that they did it without reveiwing the content in question? Then when pressure from other parties was brought to bear, it becomes a story that can't be 'disappeared', they change tack and he's out!
The superiors then dissemble and make out that they didn't know the content initially, but acted when they found out. Unlikely.
The broader context for this is the recent fervour with which 'cybernat' bloggers have been hounded by politicians and press, despite having much less political involvement (where there was any), compounded by calls for higher up heads to roll. The unionist opposition and media set the playing field by their own actions - now they seem to want to take their ball and go home.
Finally, you assert that people commenting on it have got it wrong because they don't understand how twitter works, i hope i've illustrated how the medium is not the issue. Regardless, while i'm sure you feel that this blog is frequented by the technologically semi-literate, i feel compelled to point out that multi-user publish/subscribe microblogging is hardly rocket science, but go on then - see how complicated you can make it seem for me. I'm all ears.
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#135 bmc875
"So my bet is that 17 thru 20 will still be awaiting moderation when the bell goes for end of playtime."
I hear you cry, but bearing in mind my four recent attempts before realising the Ts and Cz words were causing the problem and john's #157 on the previous thread regarding "dictionary" location, could the problem be with an "ordinary" word which can be misused and thus is beyond the pale?
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147. OnlineEd
148. Brownedov
149. JRMacClure
Oops, I see prior response render my #156 a bit redundant.
----
!!! Free the 'BwB Twitter Election' Four !!!
Detained without charge! Habeas Corpus for comments!
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155. oldnat
"This is MORIs Scottish Public Opinion Monitor published 1 March 2010 (funded I think jointly between the Mail and the Times). The Times published the story, so that it doesn't matter that the Mail didn't.
Westminster (certain to vote)
Lab 34% : SNP 32% : Con 17% : LD 12%
Holyrood Constituency (certain to vote)
Lab 30% : SNP 36% : Con 14% : LD 15%"
Are you sure this is the poll they were referring to, Oldnat? The reference I saw seemed to indicate a later one, I thought.
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158. mrbfaethedee
"Habeas Corpus for comments!"
Pedant alert!
Habeas Corpus is an entirely English concept (though exported to their colonies like Virginia - I don't know if Oregon adopted it subsequently - JR?)
The first Scottish equivalent was in 1701 - "the Act for preventing wrongful imprisonment and against undue delays in trials".
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158. mrbfaethedee
"Oops, I see prior response render my #156 a bit redundant."
But yours was very good. I particularly like this bit:
...while i'm sure you feel that this blog is frequented by the technologically semi-literate, i feel compelled to point out that multi-user publish/subscribe microblogging is hardly rocket science, but go on then - see how complicated you can make it seem for me. I'm all ears.
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#155 oldnat
"This is MORIs Scottish Public Opinion Monitor published 1 March 2010 (funded I think jointly between the Mail and the Times)."
You're 100% correct that MORI publish no data later than that (fieldwork 18-21 Feb), and perhaps it's me who has the wires crossed, but I thought it was that one which the Mail didn't publish regarding it as an outlier. It's hard to prove because the Mail website has no archives or decent search engine - even site searching with Google doesn't reveal much.
My own understanding was that the Holyrood Magazine and blogosphere rumours didn't start until mid-March and were based on the proposition that, allegedly not liking the regular monthly poll they had commissioned a one-off but ditched it when it showed results which from their point of view were even worse. I'm not wedded to that idea, though, as I do recognise that the 3/4d syndrome is all too prevalent on this newfangled interwebby thingy.
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159. JRMacClure
I'm as sure as I can be - given the confused information available in the Holyrood Magazine Diary item.
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If I believed in Karma I would see a certain rightness in Labour and the Scottish media's delight at Mark MacLachlan's situation coming back to bite them in the bahookie with the Maclennan story.
Maybe it's down to the curse of Jonah,and even just being photographed with Sarah Brown was enough to jinx him by association.
Viceroy Murphy sits very close to Global at PMQ's. I'm just saying.
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Any of you know (Oldnat? Brownedov?) where Yougov is hiding their tables of results these days? When I look at the archives on their website all I'm finding is a totally meaningless (as far as I'm concerned) summary and stupid bar graph.
Any hint where to find the actualy numbers?
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165. JRMacClure
"Any hint where to find the actual numbers"
The tables are now back in their Archives section.
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#158 mrbfaethedee
"Oops, I see prior response render my #156 a bit redundant."
Not at all. Your: "Regardless, while i'm sure you feel that this blog is frequented by the technologically semi-literate, i feel compelled to point out that multi-user publish/subscribe microblogging is hardly rocket science, but go on then - see how complicated you can make it seem for me." is exceptionally well-put and I shall enjoy reading any attempts at responding to it should the "playtime bell" not provide Sean Morton's salvation.
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#165 JRMacClure
"Any hint where to find the actualy numbers?"
Try bookmarking http://www.yougov.co.uk/corporate/archives/press-archives-pol-Main.asp?dID=2010
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160. oldnat
""Habeas Corpus for comments!"
Pedant alert!
Habeas Corpus is an entirely English concept (though exported to their colonies like Virginia - I don't know if Oregon adopted it subsequently - JR?)"
We didn't have to adopt it in Oregon. It is written into the US Constitution.
Article One, Section 9:
The privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion, the public safety may require it.
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162. Brownedov
"My own understanding was that the Holyrood Magazine and blogosphere rumours didn't start until mid-March and were based on the proposition that, allegedly not liking the regular monthly poll they had commissioned a one-off but ditched it when it showed results which from their point of view were even worse. I'm not wedded to that idea, though, as I do recognise that the 3/4d syndrome is all too prevalent on this newfangled interwebby thingy."
Pretty much the speculation I had run into. But speculation is just that. On the other hand, anyone who thinks The Mail is above doing such a thing has an opinion on them that is higher than mine.
No way I know to prove it one way or the other.
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164. GrassyKnollington
"If I believed in Karma I would see a certain rightness in Labour and the Scottish media's delight at Mark MacLachlan's situation coming back to bite them in the bahookie with the Maclennan story."
Ain't THAT the truth. Honestly, I had to laugh. It is almost enough to convert me to a belief in the aforementioned Karma because it was SO deserved.
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Thanks to both Oldnat and Brownedov. I knew I could count on you. :-)
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149. JRMacClure
"It's not email, it's like a quick conversation at all the different tables in a pub - just because you're in the room doesn't mean you heard what everyone said."
And for those who don't tweet or quite know how it works let me make a better analogy.
It's like a whole bunch of people at a large banquet table at a party. There's a lot being said so you may not pay a lot of attention to every comment; there's too much noise. When the guy at the other end of the table stands up and starts cursing and raving, you may miss his first comment. However, you'll soon notice if only because the guy next to you pokes you and tells you, "Did he REALLY say what I thought he said!"
In a well regulated and civil banquet the loud-mouth boor is immediately dragged out and told not to come back. In some places (perhaps an Orange Order celebration) he's applauded and urged on at least until the management calls the police.
Now the legitimate question is: WHICH way did the Labour Party behave?
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#170 JRMacClure
"No way I know to prove it one way or the other."
Quite so. The only thing that attracts me to the theory is that a flat denial would be published in every "Scottish" newspaper, every "Scottish" edition of the London ones and every BBC Scotland news bulletin for a week, especially if given right now. I suppose they could be saving such a denial for the day before polling to have maximum effect, but that may rely on the April Scottish Public Opinion Monitor, due out at the beginning of May, also being suppressed by both the Mail and the Times. Not that such collusion between newspapers is illegal or unprecedented, of course.
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Hello folks . Internet back on. I only found out about this story today after being told by Alex Salmond himself !! Bumped into him on the campaign trail in Huntly. I certainly know why i will be voting for him but cant repeat it here ;O)}
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175. lol was it the usual fiver?
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Looks like this isn't Duff Gordon's only Twitter problem, Brian.
In the absence of any new politics news on this website, I find this snippet on the Labour party site:
"The evening was in an innovative format, including video clips and a ‘twitterfall’ where members of the public could ask their own questions to ‘#gbontheroad’."
Imagine my surprise when reading on the Channel 4 site this text:
"It was billed as a live and online debate with the prime minister, but in the end the enthusiastic audience only allowed time for one question from Twitter."
A huge success, clearly. What a wonderful use of new technology.
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Someone with sense
These sudden dividing lines between Labour and Tories are largely a sham, being perpetuated to make the election interesting for TV audiences. It is entirely undemocratic and worrying. Only a naive person would suddenly believe that the politicians like Cameron, Hain and Mandelson who were telling us during the Blair years that ideology is dead and politics is about efficiency and managing things rather than values, have made sudden conversions.
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Don't Panic: Captain Gordon Mainwaring gets down to business
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157. Brownedov
"I hear you cry, but bearing in mind my four recent attempts before realising the Ts and Cz words were causing the problem and john's #157 on the previous thread regarding "dictionary" location, could the problem be with an "ordinary" word which can be misused and thus is beyond the pale?"
Oooh! it's my pet peeve about moderation - they've looked at your post, isolated part/s which they deem to have contravened the rules, then remove your post and send you an email which does not include explicit references to the salient parts of the original post.
Aaaaaaarrghh!!!
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160. oldnat
"
Pedant alert!
Habeas Corpus is an entirely English concept (though exported to their colonies like Virginia - I don't know if Oregon adopted it subsequently - JR?)
The first Scottish equivalent was in 1701 - "the Act for preventing wrongful imprisonment and against undue delays in trials"."
Sorry sir...
:)
Oldnat, only recently i was commenting to my partner that I've learned quite a bit on these blogs from some my fellow posters.
You never fail!
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SCOTTISH BOOKSHELF (to woo your eye off democracy)
The Faculty of advocates appointed one of their members to be Counsel for the Poor in Criminal Causes. Until paid Legal Aid was introduced in 1965 it was the duty of Counsel for the Poor to see that anyone appearing in the High Court was properly represented, usually by doing the job himself. In these days we regarded law as a public service, not as a way to get rich.
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177. Brownedov
""It was billed as a live and online debate with the prime minister, but in the end the enthusiastic audience only allowed time for one question from Twitter.""
My rule breaking #179 gave yourself a suggestion of a 5 word question which was twitted, I am resigned to the fact that democracy is a figment of ones imagination.
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162. JRMacClure
167. Brownedov
Thanks both - The whole you don't 'understand twitter' angle seemed either just a cheap shot, or they had got into their head the idea that we all come together on this forum and debate political, constitutional, moral and other matters; but can't do twitter (as though it were the salient feature)...
If those options weren't bad enough, this forum is IMO an excellent example of how online communities help their users develop new knowledge and skills from one another - e.g. Mr Oldnat teaching me about Habeas Corpus :)
The poster's failure to see any of this is just another indictment of the person jumping in with a post like that.
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#133 Sheneval - "There can be few amongst us in the West of Scotland, nearly 200 years on, who do not have some Irish blood in us". Nicely put.
As a native of the deeeeeeeeeeeeep south west with the blood of the Highlands, Lowlands and Ireland circulating around my now constricted veins, I am delighted to tell you that the blood of Africa also now flows in my family in the form of a delightful little one (now know by the abody's as the "wee scone"). And since we all probably started out from Africa, we have a lovely little circle!
Ain't life wonderful, especially when you have a twitterer, twitting himself into oblivion and a number of associated twits, making twits out of themselves, defending said twit. You couldn't make it up!
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As usual, Joan McAlpine is worth reading. I love that poster.
...no sooner had the starter gun fired, the SNP stole the race. Guess the Labservatives believe the electorate will revert to type....
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186. Robabody
"Ain't life wonderful, especially when you have a twitterer, twitting himself into oblivion and a number of associated twits, making twits out of themselves, defending said twit. You couldn't make it up!"
I seem to recall an infamous quote from David Cameron about two twits making something unprintable. Perhaps he was less incorrect on that score than people assumed at the time. ;-)
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186. At 8:15pm on 10 Apr 2010, Robabody wrote:
"As a native of the deeeeeeeeeeeeep south west with the blood of the Highlands, Lowlands and Ireland circulating around my now constricted veins, I am delighted to tell you that the blood of Africa also now flows in my family in the form of a delightful little one (now know by the abody's as the "wee scone")."
I toast the health of you and your extended family, in whom you obviously and naturally take a great deal of pride and joy.
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186. Robabody
Congratulations!
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Did anyone else watch Dr Who?
In the 29th century, all the nations of the Earth build vast spaceships to escape from solar flares. On the Spaceship UK, trapped in the interstellar darkness without an engine, the Doctor's Scottish assistant Amy Pond asks a small girl where the Scottish people are.
Small girl - Oh they got their own ship.
Bet you our spaceship had an engine.
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#119
There was another candidate on the panel. Wee Bunty, the LibDem Candidate for Argyll and Bute was there, looking like a frightened rabbit in the headlights.
In fairness to the BBC people chose their own seats. Just the Labour crew were a bit faster off the mark than everybody else and got seats near the microphone.
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Tweedledum,Tweedledee, Little weed and (spud makes a guest appearance 6 mins in. Its a wonder any of us learnt to speak proper like.
Any clever folk out there as it fits our political spectrum to a tee.
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Out again on thr election trail today. Thumbs up and smiles. Getting a good feeling but its a long way to go yet. I suspect the frenetic and over the top attack on the SNP has been seriously overcooked and has had an opposite effect to that intended for many Scots who are by nature disputative and not easily led (and generally don't like being taken for fools).
But the unionist media have nowhere else to go now except more of the same and it has to be even worse than the nonsense they have dished out to date or it will have zero effect.
Herald has moderated its nonsense. Wonder if departed editor is a factor in this. He is with the Sunday Post since the beginning of the month and there was untypically distasteful anti SNP stuff in the Post last Sunday
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Purcellgate and Twittergate exposes the the depth of the unhealthy relationship between the Labour party and the Scottish media, especially BBC Scotland.
The fourth estate in Scotland is rotten to the core.
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194. sneckedagain
"I suspect the frenetic and over the top attack on the SNP has been seriously overcooked and has had an opposite effect to that intended for many Scots who are by nature disputative and not easily led (and generally don't like being taken for fools)."
My experience with Scots is that most seem to have a strong sense of fair-play. Attack someone enough and the Scots may decide you're just a big bully in need of a taking down. Of course, mileage may vary. That's only my own experience.
I *think* that was part of the plan in the "ignore the SNP" campaign that attacking them had a reverse effect and brought more attention to them. The problem, of course, is that in Scotland one really can't ignore the SNP.
It never was going to work, a bit like sticking one's fingers in one's ears while singing "lalalala I can't hear you."
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#188 JRM - indeed - stones and greenhouses spring to mind!
#189 & 190 S and ON - thank you guys we are indeed chuffed and buggie duty is helping to unclog the circulation!
#191 IA2 - I saw it, brilliant comment, had me hooting!
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Who are the Liberal Democrats? I have heard vaguely of this species. On investigation I discover they are yet another unionist remote rule is best party. However I have thus far been unable to work out what seperates them from the other unionist parties. Apparently they worked for Labour for 10 years in government and even now in Glasgow the are Labour stooges blocking a Purnell enquiry. They suppossedly are federalists yet block further powers for our parliament. Can anyone help me work out who are the Liberal Democrats and why should anyone vote for them.
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@ 140 Sean Morton
Oh hey I see others have refuted your nonsense point, but I'm surprised at your choice of online forums as your method of making your argument (well, technically comments on a blog I suppose, maybe thats difference enough). I'd be interested to hear your opinions on the limits they were trying to put on when you could post comments. Traditionally you are all for limiting free speech, particularly online.
P.S. Hi to all, regular reader but not a regular commenter.
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140. Sean Morton
I'm following ALL the major parties
You are following "Labour" "UK Labour" "Labour Scotland" "LGBT Labour" and "Conservatives"
No Lib Dems or SNP there.
Did Huddy's victory put you off yellow?
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198. Vakov2000
"Can anyone help me work out who are the Liberal Democrats and why should anyone vote for them."
I'm afraid the only way to find out is to divine their intentions by examining the entrails of a cleg.
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#176 Grassy ... '175. lol was it the usual fiver?' Hey am not that cheap thanks.
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201. oldnat
"198. Vakov2000
"Can anyone help me work out who are the Liberal Democrats and why should anyone vote for them."
I'm afraid the only way to find out is to divine their intentions by examining the entrails of a cleg."
They are usually squashed into an unrecognisable soup.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Ashgil Recreation Centre celebrates community victory as people take back their community centre taken over by Lyons Crime Family funded by Labour
After the SNP got the centre closed and the gangsters kicked out, they then worked to have the centre reopened and returned to the community.
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199. madeofwin
Hi madeofwin!
Have you encountered Sean Morton before?
love the moniker bye the way :)
Independence FTW!
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199. madeofwin
"Hi to all, regular reader but not a regular commenter."
Welcome to commenting. Come on in. The water is--well, not so fine. Infested by comment-eating sharks to tell you the truth. But that adds to the challenge. ;-)
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#198
Vakov, isn't that a phrase used by a Father ted character.
£1.........for the twitty shop!
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202. Scarymannie
"Hey am not that cheap thanks."
Just smack him one. =)
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191. IA2
Did anyone else watch Dr Who?
**Spoilers**
I watched it (as always) and not only enjoyed the line about Scotland having our own (working) ship, but also the idea that it took a single Scottish person to end 300 years of police-state rule (my flatmate says that it will definitely be a Scot who brings down the monarchy)
The Mirror had this to say on the matter.
They only quote Stephen Moffat as saying "I hope the Tories don't win" and none of the expletives he used in the originally interview. [Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]
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#204/5 the mods don't like human rights or anyone campaigning for them especially ones who come from Glasgow and have links to a uni.
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The twittergate (?) issue shows what we do not want in politics - immature people who wish to run the country.
There is a difference between genuine humour and immature rants. How on earth could this guy, one year out of university, possible be equipped to hold a highly responsible office in parliament?
I'd be more interested to hear about the selection process. Labour intended to put this guy up against the SNP's leader in Westminster. I've commented on this earlier, but I still cannot believe that in Moray there was not a stronger, and more importantly mature, candidate. It is true that Moray is a strong SNP seat, but in politics you still give it your best shot.
Or perhaps no one else wanted to try.......
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105. cynicalHighlander:
While I have no time for Mr Bain, has our blogger got evidence for his allegations?
--------------------------------------
101. Bandages_For_Konjic:
106. frankly__francophone:
You've both summed up exactly what is wrong with modern politics.
For starters, no political candidate should be allowed to bounce between constituencies to either "get experience" or win because they are the shining star (as Kerr was).
It should be legally binding that any candidate for parliament must either live/work in the target constituency, or live/work in a neighbouring one.
I want my MP/MSP to have a strong knowledge of my town. I want them to understand and be fully aware of the issues both past and present. I do not want some chinless wonder straight out of university trying to patronise my vote.
One good thing arising from this issue is that Mr MacLennan will never be an MP or MSP. Will also be interesting to see what his employment will be.
And what's this with the word "chav"? If you must tweet/twit in Scotland, at least use the proper terminology.
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5. Dougie-Dubh
...and in keeping with Britain's 'desperate and dirty' democracy?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/apr/08/craig-murray-general-election
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> @191. At 8:54pm on 10 Apr 2010, InfrequentAllele2 wrote:
>Did anyone else watch Dr Who?
Yup, Scotland Free by 2803!
[grin]
Also loved last weeks
"You're Scottish, Fry something!"
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210. FatherMacKenzie
That says it all when the BBC are quite happy to slag of other political parties at taxpayers exspense yet will moderate human rights campaigners because they show there chosen ones in a bad light. Time for change.
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212. enneffess
"It is true that Moray is a strong SNP seat, but in politics you still give it your best shot.
Or perhaps no one else wanted to try......."
A lost cause until Independence is achieved.
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214. enneffess
"105. cynicalHighlander:
While I have no time for Mr Bain, has our blogger got evidence for his allegations? "
Check out Guy News on Guido.
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An excellent blog. It is great to see some GOOD NEWS coming from Glasgow. Congratulations to the people of that city!
After the SNP got the centre closed and the gangsters kicked out, they then worked to have the centre reopened and returned to the community.
Now, there is a day of celebration being held at the reopened Ashgil Community Centre in Milton as the people get it back.
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202. Scarymannie
Talking about getting people to vote for you...
http://www.scotlandvotes.com/blog/the-oprah-effect
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220. JRMacClure
Aha. I am an evil person. I referred to the fact that the City of Glasgow had good news for a change thanks to the SNP. Now something BBC wants mentioned, one must assume. BAD ME!
There was absolutely NO OTHER subject discussed in my post, the only link was solely on that subject, and there were no obscenities.
So would a moderator care to justify removing it?
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Ooh referred my comment? Well, I'll try and repeat the jist of what I was saying and not call anyone names.
Thanks for the welcome to 206 and 207, and I have indeed come across the author of 140 before in RL and it was unsurprising to see this person posting to defend labour politicians primarily for the reason that they are labour politicians.
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Aha. One is not supposted to post EITHER that the people of Glasgow have gotten their community centre back thanks to the SNP OR that there is clear evidence of who received those tweets from our little friend at Labour.
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The News of the World has a story.
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The News of the World has a story
http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/scottish/scottish_news/780364/Lewis-Rodden-goes-to-Jim-Murphy-cash-bash-at-Glasgows-Thistle-Hotel.html
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222. eye_write
"Talking about getting people to vote for you...
"
One of the stupidest comments I have EVER seen in regard to our past election. No, Obama did NOT win because of Oprah Winfrey.
She has an effect on a lot of things (or has in the past) such as book sales when she promotes a book. But the presidential election. Oh, please. Try the Bush and Cheney effect. If you think some people dislike Brown, the loathing in which those two were held would be difficult to explain.
Celebrity endorsements have been around for decades. Whether they actually help? Since all sides get them, who knows?
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226. JRMacClure
Blatant bias nothing more see my #211
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224. JRMacClure
And they REALLY don't want you to know about who got the tweets. Sorry guys. That cat is WAY out of the bag and ain't climbing back in.
Screenshots of those cached lists and messages are all over the internet and news sources.
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227. oldnat
This one
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229. JRMacClure
You can unknot them dear, I never said they did...
(If you meant my comment was stupid...well, that would kind of be a negative endorsement of you... ;-P)
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228. oldnat
The spud getting peeled to be made into mash would tempt one to put extra salt on it.
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232. cynicalHighlander
You'll understand why I posted the link separately in 228!
I wonder if someone has suggested to the Beeb that censoring stories in the MSM that criticise a certain party is quite unacceptable during an election?
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228. oldnat
"http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/scottish/scottish_news/780364/Lewis-Rodden-goes-to-Jim-Murphy-cash-bash-at-Glasgows-Thistle-Hotel.html
"
...stunned diners say they were OUTRAGED to see the convicted hood lap up attention from fawning Labour activists.
Good lord.
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233. eye_write
"You can unknot them dear, I never said they did...
(If you meant my comment was stupid...well, that would kind of be a negative endorsement of you... ;-P)
"
No, no. I wasn't talking about your comment but the comment in the link. In a way I'm sure he's right that they will all be looking for endorsements but that the supposed Oprah effect had anything to do with Obama's victory shows a deep ignorance of US politics.
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233. eye_write
A quote from the link:
"...it was Oprah Winfrey’s support for Barack Obama in 2007 which became one of the most influential endorsements of the US election season."
Pure nonsense.
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#228 oldnat
Birds of a feather flock together.
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234. cynicalHighlander
It will be interesting to see whether this story plays differently with the douce suburban middle class in East Renfrewshire, than it does within the City of Glasgow.
Especially this comment from the organiser "Councillor Betty Cunningham, 61, who is a member of Strathclyde Police Authority, which monitors the force's conduct.
When we spoke to Mrs Cunningham on Friday, the East Renfrewshire councillor confirmed Rodden's attendance at the event.
She said: "Lewis WAS there, aye."
Hours later, she said she thought Rodden had merely been in the hotel, and not at the Labour function.
But she admitted she was on first- name terms with him, adding: "I know Lewis, in the sense of I've met him."
An East Renfrewshire Councillor admitting that she is on first name terms with someone who "was jailed in August 2005 for four years - later reduced to two years on appeal - after being convicted of using threatening behaviour towards business rivals." !!!!!!!
The Councillor represents Barrhead (which many of the other residents of East Renfrewshire was outwith their authority!). Will it make them want to distance themselves from Labour?
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