Here one minute . . .
We had a launch on the Clyde today but not from one of the great river's remaining yards.
This was the "launch" of the Liberal Democrats' campaign in Scotland.
Of course, such a despatch is scarcely required. The campaign has been going for months. However, I suppose formalities must be observed.
Nick Clegg arrived late - and left a little too early for some of my Scottish journalistic colleagues who had wanted to ask a few more questions.
Both phenomena are customary in elections.
But still he had sufficient time to warn that the Tories would be obliged to increase VAT in order to fund their promises.
And to dismiss Alex Salmond as a "two bit" player in the context of this Westminster election.
Contemporary politics
Firstly, tax. It appears plain that the Tory offer to reverse most of next year's National Insurance increase is providing this campaign with all its early energy.
In truth, it is a relatively modest dispute. I stress, relatively. That is not to downplay the significance of the Tories' electoral offer but simply to note that, in the wider economic scheme of things, it is a comparatively small distinction.
That is, however, the nature of contemporary politics. In the absence of huge ideological arguments, relatively small disputes gain additional importance.
The LibDems, like Labour, believe that the Tory plan is uncosted and unaffordable. Vince Cable has gone further and described the Labour measure as a bad scheme - but one that cannot be reversed at this stage, given the state of the deficit.
The SNP has now broadened the debate, arguing that services could be jeopardised or damaged by Labour's hike in NI because it would fall to be paid by public sector employers and staff.
Labour's response is that a previous increase in NI caused no apparent damage to jobs - although that was at a time of relative prosperity.
Labour argues further that, by next year when the increase is imposed, the economy is expected to be growing well. (As witness, the OECD report on UK prospects.)
Still, the Tory initiative is driving the campaign at this early stage - with the others obliged to respond.
UK mandate
Also campaigning in Scotland today, William Hague of the Tories dismissed suggestions that VAT would rise and advised Mr Clegg to drop his claims.
Mr Hague also said that it would be an "important component" of a Conservative UK Government to have a "strong" presence north of the Border.
That is interesting in that it finesses the argument that a UK mandate is a UK mandate (c. Annabel Goldie and others.)
While arithmetically and constitutionally true, Mr Hague is acknowledging that the governing UK party would want to have a real presence in both the signatory nations of the Treaty of Union.
Re the Clegg comments on Mr Salmond. This is a somewhat blunter version of earlier attempts by the LibDems and others to insist that the SNP has no locus in this Westminster contest.
Indeed, it is reminiscent of the sort of jibe that used to be cast in the direction of past Liberal leaders.
I'm 
~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~56~RS~)
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Sounds like an exciting day on the hustings. How did you all manage to stay awake?
I think the irrelevant tag on the SNP may persuade some, but it is more likely to insult others. That is never a good thing when you are trying to persuade someone to vote for you. (I suppose the calculation is that the ones you insult would never have voted for you anyway, I am not sure I agree with that calculation).
Anyway as long as the SNP keep on coming out with relevant points like the cost to public services of the NI rise, they will be showing the public how "irrelevant" they are.
John
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Suprise, suprise the bosses lining up with the TORIES. I'm quite sure a great many of these, in the money bosses!! Did very well indeed during the BOOM times! I'm an employee of a hugely successful company at least in profits terms but if you can't make money in the drinks industry then you're in the wrong industry. I'm hard pushed to find a real capatin of industry from the plethora of those who aspire to be great leaders, yet they'll squeal that the company is successful because of their guiding influence, SMOKE & MIRRORS or if you like POPPYCOCK! I'd have used stronger language but Mr Moderator is always ready & waiting to pounce!
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"Nick Clegg arrived late - and left a little too early for some of my Scottish journalistic colleagues who had wanted to ask a few more questions."
So you couldn't ask any difficult questions on why his party blocked an independent inquiry into the GCC workings another time maybe.
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How many of Cameron's 60 odd business leaders are Non Dom?
And can the Conservatives guarantee that all these businesses are trading 100% ethically?
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Brian,
"That is, however, the nature of contemporary politics. In the absence of huge ideological arguments, relatively small disputes gain additional importance."
Are you saying that there is no debate about the future of Scotland, or that this debate is irrlevant?
OK, you can't split labour, the tories or the Lib Dems, but there is a debate about how Scotland should be run, and how much accountability we should have, so it is disingenuous to say that there are no "huge ideological arguments". Or maybe you just want to ignore it.
John
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Mr Clegg has already told me in his multiple handouts that it is a 2 horse race in my own highland area, and the choice is between lib and lab. Mmmm well, the lib man is in post now and has had to pay back some ill-gotten gains, and the labour man hasn't yet had the chance to make his mark yet (actually I couldn't even tell you if he has been chosen yet), so maybe, you know, a change might be an option now that you've put it in my mind ...
The long term benefit might be to vote lab to stop the lib getting the seat, thereby closing the gap between lab and tory so getting the hung parliament with the libs one seat less due to tactical voting and giving the 'wee' parties a bit of bargaining power. sound tempting!
mmmm
And he was late you say Brian?
Not a good timekeeper Brian?
Left early you said?
Overall commitment a bit shaky then?
mmm
maybe I'll just turn up a wee bit late - say on the Friday then - and see if he wants my cross.
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Why is it we can criticize political parties on this blog but when BBC Scotland is criticized like 110 did yesterday it is removed,was pressure put to bear from some quarters just a thought,if you watch News 24 you would think that it was only England an election was being held.
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Brian wrote "Nick Clegg arrived late - and left a little too early "
excellent tactic from the Lib Dems. If they could just refine and finesse that approach they could be gone before they've arrived and we'd be spared the hypocrisy, rabid unionism and disdain for democracy that they appear to stand for.
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So Nick Clegg diminishes his political stature further still!
Are the lib dems trying to beat the tories to oblivion in Scotland?
How about a blog on the progress of the Digital Economy Bill Brian? We can talk about the UK's 'democratic' processes in having a bill about a 21st century industry being written by the incumbents of older industries and shoved through the commons with inadequate scrutiny by a bunch of career politicians.
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What do you think of the current environment your blog offers Brian?
Perhaps you do not feel that there has been a significant change.
The recent curfews, and the trigger-happy moderation in particular. Are they just things that happen to your blog at the say of others, or do you involve yourself with the decisions on these matters?
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Thank God I am an ex - pat living in Spain. I couldn't stand all the excitement of the election!
Someone once told me that 'Politicians are people with two holes in their heads - one where their mouth is , and one where their brains should be!'
It will soon be time for bad news to relieve the boredom.
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Nick Clegg at a Scottish shipyard.He must have thought he was in Edinburgh.No doubt he left early so he didn't have to field any tricky questions requiring a modicum of knowledge of Scotland.He probably thinks Tavish is from the Shetney Islands.
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Lots of references everywhere to a "hung parliament", with the implication that this is a bad thing. I prefer Plaid Cymru's description of a "balanced parliament" which implies constructive positives of all kinds. In my dreams I yearn for negotiation and (perhaps grudging) co-operation and a diminution of the relentless opposition and negativity which characterises even our own meeting place of the politicians.
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Clegg who? Why do these politicians come to Scotland (you never normally see them) just to insult the Scottish people?
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And the nationalists hit yet another blog with their endless pro-SNP comments.
If the SNP didn't support independence, I wonder if this lot would still be so dedicated to the party?
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Brian,
Does Mr Clegg regard the SNP as "2 bit politicians"?
That would perhaps explain why Lib Dem MP's disregard parliamentary procedure and shout "Sean Connery, Sean Connery, Sean Connery" when an SNP MP contributes to a parliamentary debate?
There is something rather pathetic when the victim of bullying becomes a bully himself.
Mr Clegg does neither himself, nor his party, any favours with such comments.
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Alas - C-Diff and William Hague have relegated the Labour candidate for East Lothian (photographed and name checked, to increase her public profile in a spirit of fair play, given that the other candidates got a head start no doubt?) from the top 3 Scottish political stories for the first time since Monday night.
Still - to keep your presence headlined on Scotland's number one impartial political web page until Thursday lunchtime is quite an achievement. Well done ....errr.... Ms ... thingummy.
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#15
eh?
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#15. At 3:08pm on 08 Apr 2010, Reluctant-Expat wrote:
"And the nationalists hit yet another blog with their endless pro-SNP comments."
Heavens to Betsy, nationalists pro-SNP, who'd have thought?
Not everyone studiedly avoids mentioning their own political allegiance you know.
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The obvious question is, "Why Clegg?". Surely Tavish Scott is leader of the Scottish Liberal Democrats. Could this be yet another attempt to sideline Scotland and its distinctive political environment?
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15 RE
What???
What would you expect SNP supporters to do, post anti SNP posts.
The SNP are the main party supporting Independence so of course it attracts people who are like minded.
What a strange and weak post.
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15. Reluctant-Expat
"And the nationalists hit yet another blog with their endless pro-SNP comments.
If the SNP didn't support independence, I wonder if this lot would still be so dedicated to the party?"
Huh?
Nationalists support a nationalist party which those same nationalists would not support if the nationalist party was not a nationalist party.
Profound, or what?
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I'm sure Clegg would never refer to any Prime Minister of the day as a two bit politician as it would be demeaning to an important office of state.His description of the serving First Minister of Scotland using that term gives ample proof of Nick Clegg's real feelings about the Scottish people.
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afternoon, hamish42, I have usually found that when I come across the midge's big cousin a good swipe with the back of your hand or a rolled up newspaper does the trick and off it goes to annoy it's next victims.
R-E welcome back hope you are ready for the next month.
how many tory's will we end up with in Scotland once the dust settles??
Sid
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From Mr Clegg: "And to dismiss Alex Salmond as a "two bit" player in the context of this Westminster election."
He is saying that the SNP is irrelevant and, by extension, he is saying that the people who vote for them are irrelevant.
By his comments Mr Clegg demonstrates he is neither a Liberal nor a Democrat.
This is a United Kingdom election for the Parliament of the United Kingdom and it is in Parliament that we all come together so any party represented in Parliament or point of view represented by an Independent member is relevant.
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16. dear_wendy
"That would perhaps explain why Lib Dem MP's disregard parliamentary procedure and shout "Sean Connery, Sean Connery, Sean Connery" when an SNP MP contributes to a parliamentary debate?"
I'd describe such behavior in PARLIAMENT as "2-bit" except for fear of insulting 2-bits. (mother of parliaments? Oh, dear)
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
25. cwh
"This is a United Kingdom election for the Parliament of the United Kingdom and it is in Parliament that we all come together so any party represented in Parliament or point of view represented by an Independent member is relevant."
Funny, that's what the Canadians think. When THEY have debates any party with even ONE MP MUST be invited.
And when there were threats to not invite the leader of the Greens because of a technicality--amazingly enough because the Canadians REALLY DO BELIEVE IN DEMOCRACY and their Parliament--there was a nationwide outcry. Including from most people who frankly have no truck with the Greens.
I don't see that happening in the UK. WHAT has happened to the country of the "mother of parliaments"? However, in a way it's no wonder because when I wants the PMQ I also have to wonder what has happened to that "mother" as well.
Yes, the Canadians in their debate included the separatists. the Bloc Québécois. There was NEVER a question of not doing so.
Do the British no longer believe in a parliamentary system? Do they even still believe in democracy? I honestly have come to wonder. Because if they did this would be a nation-wide outcry over such an assault on their system.
And the supposed Liberal "Democrats" are the first to support this outrage to democracy.
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So to sum up the election push in Scotland it seems to go like this -
Labour Say: "Don't vote for him or him, vote for me and those others don't matter".
The LDs say: Don't vote for him or him, vote for me and those others don't matter.
The Tories say: Don't vote for him or him, vote for me and those others don't matter.
So I have to ask myself - why did all three bother coming to Scotland. if Scotland is irrelevant, and the main Scottish party does not matter.
Could it be they either tell lies or are too stupid to understand the impression they give to Scottish voters?
The only other point is - what are their policies for Scotland that should be of interest to me - a potential voter?
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I think that, like David Steel so many years ago, Nick Clegg has begun to believe his own publicity - in this case, he seems to think he may yet be a 'kingmaker'.
Relax, Nick; go back to your constituency and prepare for continued obscurity!
As with the readiness of the Scottish electorate to abandon formerly-successful 'fringe' parties in the first Holyrood election which wasn't a foregone conclusion (in 2007), the LibDems will this time be restored to their natural level of 20-25 MPs, and the country will clearly choose a party to lead...
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Could it be that all the Unionist parties have already accepted the fact that the Scots are set for independence? Thus there is no point of fighting for any Scottish seats? Even if they only picked up the odd seat here and there, and things are going to be really close elsewhere, it seems to me it would make much more sense to concentrate your sfforts to pick up seats that could make the difference between success and failure.
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Brian
I think clegg can call Alex a two-bit player in this election. Cleggy has his millions to spend and even on a proportionate share for Scotland that is still way more than the SNP. If elections were decided on a votes per £ basis the SNP would win by miles. Votes on the cheap; cleggy can call that two-bit, I'd call it canny.
They even persuaded me to go out leafleting with them today. Economical, I had to pay for my own shoe leather!
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Now approaching a hiatus in publishing comments of 90 minutes. Again!
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If Nick Clegg regards Alex Salmond First Minister of Scotland a two-bit player does he also regard the Scottish Parliament a two-bit parliament,he has just shone the classic contempt that he and the other english based parties hold the Scottish people in.
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While we see irrelevant stuff about the English NHS during this election, worth noting that in Scotland
"Big fall in rate of hospital infections"
http://health.caledonianmercury.com/2010/04/08/big-fall-in-rate-of-hospital-infections/00483
Now who was the Health minister overseeing that? It couldn't have been the Deputy Leader of some "irrelevant" wee party could it?
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Andrew Neil, in his TV programme today, showed from new figures from the Office of National Statistics that, of 1.68 million jobs created by Labour since 1997, 98.5% of them had gone to immigrants.
Phil Woolas tried to justify the figures by claiming Neil was confused about their interpretation, but he himself didn't say what he thought the real figures were.
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An hour and a half since the last post was approved during what most would consider prime time. This has the blatant effect of further squashing political discourse. In the midst of an election on a political blog--this is outrageous.
I suggest those of you who PAY for this blog with your license fees might want to have a harsh word to two to say to BBC.
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Well over two hours now. What is the point in this blog allowing comments at all?
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BBC Scotland managed to devote all of 2 minutes coverage of the election in the 30 minute Reporting Scotland this evening.Evidently London's coverage is deemed sufficient for the Scottish electorate.It's perfectly clear the BBC are determined to focus the Scottish voters on the London based parties as much as they can.It had better standards at one time,now the BBC is beyond a joke.
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Jim Murphy says you are irrelevant!
Unless you vote for one of the partners in the Tory/ alliance.
In a live webchat hosted by The Scotsman this afternoon, the party's senior placeman in Scotland casually dismissed those who vote for any party other the Conservatives or the British Labour Party as "irrelevant". He also appeared to suggest that the general election was all about choosing the next UK Prime Minister rather than people sending their own representatives to the UK parliament.
Answering a question about the combined Tory/BLP effort to sideline the SNP i the general election, Murphy said,
"Within a month Gordon Brown will either be returned as Prime Minister or David Cameron will have the key to Number 10. There is no other outcome possible. So in this UK general election the SNP are utterly irrelevant when it comes to deciding who the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom is."
Am I the only one to be offended by this arrogant, anti-democratic attitude?
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28. JRMacClure
""mother of parliaments""
Perhaps the North American phrase (sometimes contracted to "mother") is a better descriptor of Westminster.
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Brian,
I hear you cry. So little is happening in Scotland re the UK general election that you seem to have much time on your hands. Perhaps next time you're sitting in Pacific Quay wondering how to generate Scottish interest in UK politics, you could spend a moment or two looking at what passes for Scotland coverage within this website's ELECTION 2010 sub-site. For example, you might care to consider the "swingometer" provided and mention to your colleagues the fact that it is as useful as a chocolate teapot in predicting the Scottish outcome, which as you imply but cannot quite bring yourself to say, may have a profound impact on the constitutional future of the entire kingdom.
To obviate repetition, I give below my own Swingometer feedback already submitted:
If the BBC takes OfCom and its own charter at all seriously, your "swingometer" should FIRST be offered in four flavours acknowledging that the "four nations of the UK will be considered separately" in broadcasting and in your Editorial Guidelines on Impartiality & Diversity of Opinion re "Controversial subjects" which state that:
"In the nations and regions of the UK, controversial subjects are those which have considerable impact on the nation or region. They include political or industrial issues or events which are the subject of intense debate or relate to a policy under discussion or already decided by local government."
As it stands, you provide no mechanism whatsoever for examining changes in the vote of SIX of the UK's NINE major parties. Three of the four nations of the UK need a four-way "swingometer" reflecting their own FOUR major parties if the device is to be at all useful. And given the success of UKIP in coming second in the recent euro elections in England it would be more pertinent to that nation to offer if not a UKIP choice then at least an OTHER choice to reflect the fact that the not only UKIP but also the Green Party and the BNP seem quite likely to increase their shares of the vote in that nation.
Such a four way choice might be an interesting "bit of fun" as Peter Snow would have said for a UK version of the "swingometer", but it most certainly should be an option only available on request. The most sensible web design for such a page would have NO data displayed before the nation to be considered was chosen from a drop-down box, with the four home nations listed in alphabetical order followed by a kingdom-wide option for those interested.
Given the work you have done already, this is not rocket science and could be implemented by a web-savvy intern inside one working day with little supervision.
Finally, I trust you will soon be replacing "MP for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath" with "Labour candidate for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath" since once Parliament is dissolved there are no MPs but merely prospective parliamentary candidates.
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#15 Reluctant-Expat
"And the nationalists hit yet another blog with their endless pro-SNP comments."
What a ray of eternal sunshine you are, R-E, with your relentlessly positive comments.
Seriously, though, following your own self-outing as a Tory wouldn't your time be better spent in praise of Tory initiatives like Aunty Bella's manic journey through all eleven Tory target seats today? What's your own guesstimate of the number of Tory MPs in Scottish seats on 7 May and why, for example? What number do you think Cameron requires to justify his claim to speak for all the nations of the UK?
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#28. At 5:48pm on 08 Apr 2010, JRMacClure wrote:I don't see that happening in the UK. WHAT has happened to the country of the "mother of parliaments"?
You must be rather careful here, What country are you talking about? The UK is not a country. It is a political Union of four countries. So again, which one is supposed to be, "The mother of Parliaments"? Also bear in mind that long before the English, or UK, parliaments, Scotland held, "Assemblies", when called by the monarch of Scots. For example, that which was called to draw-up and sign the declaration of Arbroath. Mind you, in those days, only the nobility were enfranchised but, still and all, it was a gathering of representatives to decide upon national matters of importance.
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40. Electric Hermit
"Am I the only one to be offended by this arrogant, anti-democratic attitude?"
What is interesting is that he is saying that HE is irrelevant since apparently ALL MPs are--and only the Prime Minister counts. Glad to hear he has such a devotion to the parliamentary system.
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40. Electric Hermit
"
Am I the only one to be offended by this arrogant, anti-democratic attitude?"
No. this might get through before the election.
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this
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moderation
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May I make a suggestion?
Many, perhaps most, of you are knowledgeable about the issues in the consistuencies in which you live and vote.
Since apparently Mr. Taylor and the BBC are determined to pretend those issues don't exist and not cover them, I suggest bringing the local issues regarding MPs up here.
Which ones of which parties have you heard from? Did their brochures address honest concerns in an honest manner? The ones who are incumbents, have they been accessible? I am sure there are many other issues to be raised that an outsider like me wouldn't think of.
I admit that this is something that the BBC might choose to moderate as being -- ermmm -- too political and relevant to a parliamentary election to be addressed on a political blog. But it's worth a try.
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sucks
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41. oldnat
"Perhaps the North American phrase (sometimes contracted to "mother") is a better descriptor of Westminster."
You may well be right, but you're not supposed to know phrases like that. BAD Oldnat! ;-)
Rather like your understanding my comment about the missing letter from the SNP campaign slogan. *slaps hand over mouth* I didn't say that!
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I see that J.mumpty has an election leaflet out with no mention of his gaffer or manifest but a tear off slip at the bottom with 4 tick boxes one of which says "I might not be around on polling day and would like to apply to vote by post"
Ad enough of Labour? ... Murphy's campaign the Sun's postscipt.
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Jeff over at SNP Tactical Voting discusses an interesting question:
Indulging Labour in its catcalls that the SNP is irrelevant at Westminster for a brief moment, it is worth pausing to reflect on what is so 'relevant' about Labour. What are they selling Scotland at this election, other than not being Tories, that other parties can't match?
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Mr Hague, who arrived by helicopter at the Royal Highland Centre near Edinburgh Airport, said the Conservatives had shown what they could do as a minority party at Holyrood...
But the SNP is "irrelevant" as a minority party at Westminster. Now why do you suppose he thinks that?
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
British democracy: no better than Uzbekistan's
In my diplomatic career, I spent a great deal of time assessing the democratic merit of elections in various countries abroad. That gives me a peculiar perspective in looking at elections in the UK, and wondering what a foreign observer would make of them. I can do this also with the insight of having twice run as an independent parliamentary candidate.
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This link sums up the BBC and this blog. Cowardly just doesn't cover it.
http://newsnetscotland.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=93:the-bbc-a-licence-to-kill-free-speech#comments
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And for those of us who follow the polls some very interesting remarks from Anthony Wells (pretty widely considered an expert on such things) over at UK Polling Report.
Ipsos-MORI have published a second wave of their marginals polling for Reuters (for my report on wave 1 see here), which shows a swing of 5.5% from Labour to the Conservatives, up from 5% in the first wave in mid-March. ...
To get an overall majority the Conservatives need a swing of 6.9% in marginal seats, so this shows them falling short.
(Sorry for snipping but the moderators have gotten heavy-handed about delete posts for doing nothing more than exactly quoting a source)
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40. No you are not the only one. Viceroy Murphy is getting more and more rabid by the day and I sincerely hope he is heading for a big fall come May 6th.
The man is a disgrace to politics and that's saying something. He's an extremist, a placeman and a lapdog who cares only for his own self interest and the vicious, vacuous agenda of his bosses at NuLabour HQ.
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I see the media continues to propose the view that a hung parliament would necessarily give rise to a coalition.
If there is one lesson Westminster can learn from Holyrood, it is that actually minority Government works rather better than soul-selling coalitions.
The Scottish LibDems lost far more - credibility, integrity, honesty - by entering into coalition with Labour in 1999 (and 2003) than they gained for their supporters.
(And when I say "coalition", I mean it in the sense that a lamppost enters into a coalition with a dog's raised leg.)
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The delay in moderation is killing this blog. Deliberately?
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49. JRMacClure
"...I suggest bringing the local issues regarding MPs up here."
Good idea! But for the fact that, after a two-hour delay in publishing, most will be moderated out of existence for being off-topic. And there will be no opportunity for ongoing discussion of those comments which do make it through because the comments facility will be shut down without warning.
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44. Auld Bob
Technically, Scotland is a nation, not a country. By definition a country must be self-ruling. I am well aware that Scotland was ruled in part by what is often referred to as the Community of the Realm of Scotland.
I don't think that relates to what has happened to Westminster--or was it always that truly awful? Did people in the UK never really BELIEVE in a parliamentary system?
I don't limit the comments to Scotland because it is an issue across all of the nations and not limited to Scotland. In that case, the proper word would seem to be British.
Apparently, many in the UK are willing to totally scupper the entire concept of a parliamentary system. And I'll repeat again: The Canadians have parliamentary election debates and include ALL parties with MPs including Quebecois nationalists. Because they value their parliamentary system and have no desire to follow along in the footsteps of the US.
So what is happening in the UK? It seems to be only to silence nationalists? The FIRST to question this concept should be union loyalists because it is the system they cling to that is being scuppered. And to silence people they claim can't win anyway!
If this makes sense to you, it doesn't to me.
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On the Road to a Big Debate Simone Byrne
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58. JRMacClure
"Ipsos-MORI have published a second wave of their marginals polling for Reuters"
They include 3 Scottish seats (swing needed in brackets)
Stirling (5.5%) : Renfrewshire East (7%) : Edinburgh South West (8.3%).
Even if Scots voted in the same way as those in English seats (which they demonstrably don't), none of those look like falling to the Tories.
The Tories, of course, like every other party (no matter how small or insignificant) are not "irrelevant". Their supporters have a valid political stance, though in Scotland, their are too few of them to gain many/any seats.
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60. Miss Terri Poster
I love your analogy!
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49. JRMacClure
Let me give it a start to my own suggestion in a very inadequate way.
I can not (obviously) discuss how people feel locally but I do follow some of what happens in the races and read the blogs (also obviously).
So I'll bring up Livingston.
What can you say? This was Jim Devine's seat and long a "safe" seat for Labour. Maybe it still is. Anyone from that part of Scotland want to ring in on it?
2005 General Election results:
Robin Cook (Labour) – 22,657 (51.1%)
Angela Constance MSP (SNP) – 9,560 (21.6%)
Charles Dundas (Lib Dems) – 6,832 (15.4%)
Alison Ross (Tory) – 4,499 (10.2%)
After Mr. Cook's tragic death following his resignation over the Iraq War the 2005 by-election results:
Jim Devine (Labour) – 12,319 (41.8%)
Angela Constance MSP (SNP) – 9,639 (32.7%)
Charles Dundas (Lib Dems) – 4,362 (14.8%)
Gordon Lindhurst (Tory) – 1,993 (6.8%)
In spite of a pretty substantial swing to the SNP in the by, that SHOULD look solid enough. But it's more than a bit of an embarrassment for any party to have an official standing trial as Mr. Devine is. (Old news moderators--so please don't tell me THAT is defamation) What's more the SNP now controls the council there, I've read. So... it would seem that the SNP is continuing to make gains. Still that would require a big swing.
A scandal didn't make a difference in Glasgow NE though. But people also had more time to forget. *makes iffy wavy motion of the hand*
The 2010 contestants (in alpha order by last name) are: Alison Adamson-Ross (Conservatives),Lis Bardell (SNP), Charles Dundas (Lib Dems), Graeme Morrice (Labour), David Vass (Independent)
Anyone have any thoughts? Live and vote in Livingson?
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Now this is funny
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62. Electric Hermit
"Good idea! But for the fact that, after a two-hour delay in publishing, most will be moderated out of existence for being off-topic. And there will be no opportunity for ongoing discussion of those comments which do make it through because the comments facility will be shut down without warning."
I have to wonder if they are trying to kill this blog. Far too many opinions they don't like. And I don't intend to let them without a struggle.
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#27 my comment was a snip from Brians words followed by a comment based on data from the BBC Scotland web pages.
Now more than 4 hours later it is still stuck in traffic.
Does this mean that previously published data from a 'reliable' source such as the BBC is banned by the BBC or have they had second thoughts about how accurate the data might be?
#47, #48, #50
I take my hat off to you sir. How on earth did you manage to get three individual words passed as 'on topic'. Awesome young (or middle or old - take your own pick) man. Are you putting yourself forward in a constituancies for the forthcoming election? You might be worth a few votes if you represented a wee diddy party which is to be ignored at all costs while everyone from the other parties is busy reminding everyone that they must be ignored.
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It saddens me that the BBC can get away with such disregard to its own charter. Furthermore, like several posters I have had posts blocked which criticise the BBC and their editorial stance.
I am still none the wiser as to why my last post was blocked other than it could well come under the catch alls of 'likely to offend' (the BBC) or was 'otherwise objectionable' which basically covers anything really.
That the BBC is a pro Union, fully paid up member of an anglocentric, London centric establishment and anti national distinctive viewpoints is a given but the sheer brazen nature of its efforts to distort, minimise, belittle, ignore and exclude anything other than a purely British perspective is beyond the pale.
The position is clear to a few but not the many. Therefore I hope that the BBC overstep their position. Then, perhaps, the decline and fall of their British empire may come about all the sooner.
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"Here one minute . . ." and shut down in 24hrs by order
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Is it OK to quote Brian, Mods?
"That is, however, the nature of contemporary politics. In the absence of huge ideological arguments, relatively small disputes gain additional importance."
So parties and media in contemporary politics desparately try to find any issue where they can slip a Rizla paper between party policies, and then milk it for all it's worth.
Amazing then, that the only huge idealogical policy difference between parties (i.e. SNP v. Unionist Tweedles on Scottish Independence) receives no coverage, is given no importance, and the Governing party of Scotland are deemed irrelevant.
Democracy apparently?
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52. cynicalHighlander
"a tear off slip at the bottom with 4 tick boxes one of which says "I might not be around on polling day and would like to apply to vote by post""
I thought you were joking! Is that legal? Can a party apply FOR someone to vote postal?!
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74. JRMacClure
"I thought you were joking! Is that legal? Can a party apply FOR someone to vote postal?!
"
Parties are permitted to assist voters with the procedure of applying for a postal vote.
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#68 Cynical Highlander
That is a classic. Well done Joan yet again.
She's right about blog power also. Salmond blogging through the "Prime Ministerial Debates" would be brilliant.
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68. cynicalHighlander
"Now this is funny"
Hilarious and something to think about!
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Re #69
or.....
"Fire Up the Quattro. Taxi for Brown!"
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74. JRMacClure
"I thought you were joking! Is that legal? Can a party apply FOR someone to vote postal?!"
I haven't a clue but it seems to be not playing the game.
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Brian
Do you not have any worries that these flying visits may be undermining the opportunity for journalists to do their job? Did Mr Clegg actually say all those things attributed to him in the time available or did he hand out a sheet of what he ought to have said had he bothered sufficiently to be on time and to stay for long enough for our journalists to get the measure of the man? I don't think all the exposure as a potential PM in these "debates" will tell us. IMO they will be so stage managed and rehearsed we will get no insight into the men in their spin doctor's iron masks.
What will happen to the journalist who accurately reports a mis-speak? Will the words on the press release be held to be the truth? Will the journalist get any recognition or will they be slapped down, as if reporting a lie was an irrelevance? It is at times like these and in conditions like these that journalists earn the respect of their peers and public. However absurd the reported comments by clegg and the SoS, I have been racking my brain for a "better" comment to turn off a large sector of your voters and the best I can do is 'To enable the increase in out MP's second home allowance, we will abolish housing benefit for anyone not a direct tenant of their local authority.'
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75. Electric Hermit
"Parties are permitted to assist voters with the procedure of applying for a postal vote."
And if someone sends back that tear-off stub how, does the party know (if they care) that it came from the voter in question?
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76. dear_wendy
"She's right about blog power also. Salmond blogging through the "Prime Ministerial Debates" would be brilliant. "
Unfortunately with the hate campaign in some quarters (such as a certain facebook page which I would like to in order to demonstrate but I think even BBC would object), it would have to be very heavily moderated.
But it WOULD be interesting and I hope he considers doing it!
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75. Electric Hermit
"Parties are permitted to assist voters with the procedure of applying for a postal vote."
Just what qualifies as "assisting"? Does the person have to appear in person to get this assistance? Prove their identity?
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76. dear_wendy
"Salmond blogging through the "Prime Ministerial Debates" would be brilliant. "
I don't wish to be pedantic, but they are not being called "Prime Ministerial Debates" now. Not since the idiocy of this was pointed out. The current line, unless it's been changed again, is that they are to be called "Party Leaders' Debates".
As everybody knows, but the unionist parties and their accomplices in the media refuse to admit, the debates are actually Party Election Broadcasts. As such, they cannot legally be screened in Scotland while they exclude the main party.
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70. highlandarab
"How on earth did you manage to get three individual words passed as 'on topic'."
Cheers highlandarab!
It just goes to show how arbitrary it can be, eh?
I didn't think it would get past - i'm in the middle of a discussion with the beebs Central Communities Team about (my) the last post on the previous thread, so i thought they might be touchier than usual :)
You know, i'm currently torn between the feeling that the political & media shenanigans against the nats must be having an effect, and the feeling that the nats are going to make good inroads in this GE (regardless, or because of?).
The sheer miscalculation of people like Clegg, and the overly loud proclamations of SNP irrelevance you so correctly highlight must surely make people think it's SNP or Them (you know, the whole indistinguishable lot of them!).
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#71 EphemeralDeception:
One of mine that didn't get through the MODS could only have been rejected because I refered to someone as a, "numptie". Now there could only be two BBC House rules that word fell foul of. Being a language other than English or they thought it was either a swear word or a dire insult. Just for the record - the nearest English word is probably, "numskull", and hardly a dire insult.
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Taylor's blog didn't tell us how long Clegg stayed, we know poor Brian isn't good with numbers.
However the Nick Robinson blog does :
'We were in Glasgow for about half an hour, where the Liberal Democrat leader met his party's candidates, his predecessor Charles Kennedy, a lot of journalists and... er... well, no-one else at all. We soon left.'
This level of effort does seem to explain how important Scotland is to Clegg and the Liberal Democrats.Poor tavish Scott
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73. dear_wendy
"Amazing then, that the only huge idealogical policy difference between parties (i.e. SNP v. Unionist Tweedles on Scottish Independence) receives no coverage, is given no importance, and the Governing party of Scotland are deemed irrelevant.
Democracy apparently?"
Well said dear_wendy!
In fact, a large fraction of all the talk on this blogs various threads is about precisely the continued ignoring of this deficit of coverage. It remains ignored by the media, and it remains ignored by our host.
Can't wait to see if the SNP give them a surprise by giving the unionists a skelp in the GE!
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We have Newsnight Scotland (which is dealing with the UK issue of NIC).
Previously, we had Newsnight (dealing with the English NHS).
Seems strange that the BBC confuses England with UK. Surely, they can't be totally incompetent? (OK rheorical question - they demonstrably are that incompetent).
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85. Electric Hermit
"I don't wish to be pedantic, but they are not being called "Prime Ministerial Debates" now."
EH, they are still being called the Prime Ministerial Debates here
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82. JRMacClure
"And if someone sends back that tear-off stub how, does the party know (if they care) that it came from the voter in question?"
What do you mean by "voter in question"? As I understand it these leaflets are not addressed to specific individuals.
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84. JRMacClure
"Just what qualifies as "assisting"? Does the person have to appear in person to get this assistance? Prove their identity? "
You seem to be under the illusion that the party is issuing or authorising postal votes. Not so! All the parties can do is offer assistance with obtaining and completing the official forms. There is no great conspiracy here.
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#86 mrbfaethedee
I thought the other night that the less words the better.
4 seemed to be a good number that night.
Certainly one is a record so far.
'This' was the smallest word at 4 letters.
I wonder is a smaller word could be used or even if just individual letters would pass
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#86
you can tell how bored I am
anyway here we go
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re #86
S
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re #86
N
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re #86
P
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Credit to Newsnicht!
Taking the proverbial out of all the parties. Great stuff!
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Ah Brilliant
just saw Charles Kennedy on Newsnicht Alba coming out - numerous times - from behind an apple tree and waving. I never realised before how like Paddy the vet in Emmerdale he looked.
A star in the making.
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Extremely disappointed to see the my own MP (Stewart Hosie) voted Yes to give the Digital Economy Bill a nod and a wink on to the next stage.
Told you i didn't see eye to eye with the SNP on everything.
:(
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89. mrbfaethedee
"In fact, a large fraction of all the talk on this blogs various threads is about precisely the continued ignoring of this deficit of coverage. It remains ignored by the media, and it remains ignored by our host.
"
Took a look at The Scotsman today and was struck by the dearth of their usual staple of stories attacking the SNP/Scottish government/Alex Salmond. Are we supposed to believe this is not intended to serve the Tory/BLP alliance's strategy of pretending the SNP does not exist.
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Brian,
Next time you meet with politicians from all four of Scotland's major parties - your Big Debate tomorrow would be a good opportunity - perhaps you'd ask them all to clarify their differences on defence policy? As an aide memoire, you could use the Thunderer's new leader - Arms and the Plan.
Beginning "Defence was once the most divisive issue in British politics. It is no longer." and going on to remind us that "The Liberal Democrats oppose a “like-for-like” replacement for Trident. That may be the worst of all postures." it rather implies that only the L-Ds are "iffy" about nuclear weapons. Perhaps I'm having what my kids call a "senior" moment [to my face, anyway!] but I could have sworn that one of Scotland's major parties wants to scrap them altogether. Again, maybe my geography is rusty but I seem to recall that Greenock, where you're debating tomorrow, is pretty close to where these Trident thingies are stored.
Wouldn't it be nice to have some clear blue heavy water between the parties? Your local audience might even think it relevant!
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95. highlandarab
#96 #97 #98
Lol!
Easy when you try ;)
And bonus points for an uninterrupted sequence!
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91. X_Sticks
"EH, they are still being called the Prime Ministerial Debates here"
Oops! Somebody at the Beeb is off-message.
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98. highlandarab
You must be so proud!
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I am not aware if they have ever apeared on a BBC Scotland programme but wouldn't it be nice if just once or twice, Newsnight Scotland could invite Margaret Cuthbert and Jim Cuthbert onto the programe to hear their side of the story on Scotland's finances, instead of the usual Labour supporting pundits like Alf Young and Lorraine (same again) Davidson.
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Now back to discussing politics (and ignoring EH)...
Anthony Wells on his blog pointed out PoliticHome where "they have the Poll Centre projection model, which is a UNS projection with the additions of a seperate swing in Scotland, a swing of 2 points more in marginal seats and factoring in the random variation in swing between one seat and the next" which has a current projection of has the Conservatives 11 seats short of a majority.
They will be updating it weekly which should spot any trend but avoid daily variations brought about by MoE and outliers.
Fascinating stuff for people who follow polls and those who think an across the board UNS isn't quite satisfactory.
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#88 portcharlotte
"Taylor's blog didn't tell us how long Clegg stayed, we know poor Brian isn't good with numbers.
However the Nick Robinson blog does :
'We were in Glasgow for about half an hour, where the Liberal Democrat leader met his party's candidates, his predecessor Charles Kennedy, a lot of journalists and... er... well, no-one else at all. We soon left.'
This level of effort does seem to explain how important Scotland is to Clegg and the Liberal Democrats.Poor tavish Scott"
and also the Tories using helicopters to fly through various different scottish constituancies (and also landing in the wrong field at one point???)
Now - which parties are not worried about the environmental costs of the campaign, and which parties are not calculating their carbon footprint?
Shame on you all!
Did the Lib Dems bring their big yellow bus for their half hour visit or was this parked in a multi storie parking lot for the couple of hours while they waited on the great leaders return? - it would give the driver enough time for soup and a sandwich for his/her dinner.
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92. Electric Hermit
"What do you mean by "voter in question"? As I understand it these leaflets are not addressed to specific individuals. "
The voter in question would be a PRESUMTIVE voter who would return the stub saying they wanted to vote by mail. If they weren't a voter, why the h*** would they return it saying they want to VOTE (vote does presume voter) by mail?
So you're saying a NON-VOTER would tear it off and return it saying they wanted to vote by mail? Or someone who isn't registered to vote? Or maybe a non-citizen? Or maybe a dead person?
Nah. That would never happen.
However, I didn't "prescume a comspiracy". I believe I asked HOW someone arranges to vote for mail and exactly what this "assistance" from a political party consists of.
Too difficult to answer?
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#88. At 10:44pm on 08 Apr 2010, portcharlotte:
I am always fair and refuse to sink to their level so the truth of the matter is that Clegg's aircraft was delayed.
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As usual Moridura has some good points to make.
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"Everyone who is part of this election, politician and journalist alike, can see and sense the madness of it all (...)" (Nick Robinson in his blog yesterday)
Quite so. Forget the little set-piece skirmishes between two-bit UK party leaders on the subject of National Insurance contributions and the like. Consider instead whether what matters essentially might not actually be the fact that the unprecedentedly serious, highly urgent and largely unaddressed problem of UK public debt is growing all the time in the background, while we wait for the politicians to get this bizarre and untimely election out of the way so that the rating agencies and the bond markets can determine what is to happen next: i.e. how rapidly and by how much the UK government is going to be cutting its spending irrespective of what the Blighty parties are telling the electorate now.
As the economic sage of the age, the francophone public intellectual Dr Paul Jorion, has been remarking while contemplating the squeeze being put on the Greek government at the moment and the failure to regulate dangerous forms of speculation, "Those who are taking decisions in our name today do not yet have the measure of the crisis that we are going through. They will eventually, of course, but by then there will be nothing left but ruin and desolation."
Certainly in the UK economic ruin and desolation may conceivably be somewhat greater if a hung parliament is produced by this election, an outcome not desired by the markets and a situation in which the party leaders of the Celtic Alliance will probably have a not insignificant role to play, one would have thought, whether Mr Clegg, a politician with a rather low profile beyond the shores of Blighty, cares to admit it now or not.
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I'll read the remaining 13 comments in the morning - if they've all been moderated.
Nytol
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#15
I realise that supporting a party because of their policies rather than because yer da used to is a bit of an alien concept for most of Scotland but you seem to be under the impression that this is actually a bad thing.
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103. Electric Hermit
"Took a look at The Scotsman today and was struck by the dearth of their usual staple of stories attacking the SNP/Scottish government/Alex Salmond. Are we supposed to believe this is not intended to serve the Tory/BLP alliance's strategy of pretending the SNP does not exist."
It that's there tactic, I hardly think it is likely to be an effective one. The lack of the constant drip, drip, drip of attacks which has to some extent, I'm convinced, hurt the SNP. Not as much as intended but it's hard for any party to take that much mudslinging without some people believing some of it.
While they will certainly struggle to receive the kind of coverage that the governing party of the nation deserves, I think in the end if they supposed "main parties" are busy devouring each other it can't hurt the SNP.
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Did I hear right? That Cleg spent about an hour in Scotland and then headed back south , is this how much he thinks of the people of Scotland.
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67. JRMacClure
"Anyone have any thoughts? Live and vote in Livingson?
"
I should also mention, I've seen mixed comments on this constituency. Some say that with the gradual swing to SNP over the course of the EU elections and the by that the SNP has a good chance there and even a pridiction that the SNP would take it. Others say it's just too large a swing to be likely.
I haven't read much about the candidates and wonder if anyone has seen their mailings or hustings.
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112. JRMacClure
I genuinely don't know what you are getting so upset about. All the parties offer assistance with things like voter registration, transport on polling day etc. as part of the drive to encourage participation. There is nothing extraordinary at all about offering advice on registering for a postal vote. The voter still has to go through the proper procedure. Postal votes are not in the gift of any political party.
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112. JRMacClure
I meant to post this for your information -
Code of conduct on handling of postal votes (Scotland) - Electoral Commission
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113. Auld Bob
"I am always fair and refuse to sink to their level so the truth of the matter is that Clegg's aircraft was delayed."
It appears he did not have time to liaise with the Scottish party. His deplorable personal attack on the First Minister was seriously at odds with their strategy.
Maybe Clegg just decided that the Scottish Liberal Democrats were irrelevant.
Clegg goes on offensive with attack on Salmond
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101. Mr B
I'm also very disappointed with the SNP stance on the DE bill
Pete Wishart was one of the most vocal in his support(perhaps labouring under the impression that we're all downloading Runrig torrents)and I think the SNP MPs who showed up voted with him.
My own MP, Mohammed Sarwar, didn't bother attending, and instead was helping his son who is seeking to take the seat from him, I'm not really sure if that's better or worse than having voted for it.
I understand that the Law Society of Scotland have said it is pretty much unenforceable as it stands due to incompatibility with the EHRC, and the Tories have said if they get in they'll be ripping it up and starting again.
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118. JRMacClure
"It that's there tactic, I hardly think it is likely to be an effective one."
They have made no secret of the fact that the key term in their strategy for dealing with the SNP is "irrelevant". This is not very surprising when you think about it. They clearly want to avoid actually engaging with the SNP in a straightforward contest that would invite comparisons of their records in key policy areas.
If the unionist alliance was to engage with the SNP they would have to develop a special campaign for the purpose as so much is devolved and genuinely irrelevant in the context of a UK general election. And they simply have nothing on which to build a distinctly Scottish campaign.
SNP Tactical Voting: What are Labour selling in Scotland?
Not much!
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121. Electric Hermit
"I genuinely don't know what you are getting so upset about. All the parties offer assistance with things like voter registration, transport on polling day etc. as part of the drive to encourage participation. There is nothing extraordinary at all about offering advice on registering for a postal vote. The voter still has to go through the proper procedure. Postal votes are not in the gift of any political party."
The only thing I got upset about was YOU attacking me. I asked if it was legal for voters to have the POLITICAL PARTY request the postal vote for them which is what the tear off on the bottom of Murphy's mailer said to do. A pretty darn reasonable question in my view.
It wouldn't be the first time political parties have breached the rules about postal votes. Apparently you you forgotten the Voting Commission ripping into Labour for having breached the rules for having held onto postal votes substantially longer than the rules allow. After the 2005 general elections there were numerous accusations of problems with postal votes, a number of which ended up in court and some with convictions.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/03/19/postal_vote_fraud/
Election commissioner Richard Mawrey QC made the comment as he described postal voting on demand as "lethal to the democratic process", and said the current system means "wholesale electoral fraud is both easy and profitable".
Additional checks on postal votes have been added but it is still something to keep a close eye on to be sure that the rules are carefully followed.
So lay off. You have this habit of accusing me of being some raving lunatic conspiracist because I ask a question. You're the one with a problem.
Why are YOU getting so upset because I asked a question?
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If anyone wants to get their blood up, I can recommend The Secretary of State Against Scotland, our very own Governor General, Viceroy Jim Murphy's execrable webchat on the similarly execrable Scotsman website.
The very worst thing of all is that since:-
1. He is my MP;
2. The SNP have zero chance of overturning that, with the Tories his main threat;
3. In FPTP my SNP vote would mean nothing; and
3. The best driver of further Scottish autonomy will be a Conservative wipeout in Scotland,
I'm actually going to have to cast a vote for this patronising, oleaginous, Scottish-cringing, warmongering, expenses-troughing Blairite lickspittle.
I really can't believe it's come to this, but the logic is inescapable
Anyone else faced with a similar moral maze style dilemma?
CC
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122. Electric Hermit
And to put an end to this whole "you're a nut case if you express a concern about postal votes" argument of yours, less that two months ago even The Scotsman was forced to address it:
Labour Rapped Over By-election Postal Votes
The report by election watchdog the Electoral Commission said Labour had held on to postal vote applications for up to four weeks longer than the two days allowed.
The report also pointed out that one in 20 postal vote applications had been rejected...
I still question a politician having a mail-in stub at the bottom of their mailing. And if political parties are "holding on to postal votes" then evidently they are (in spite of your claim to the contrary) actually handling the applications and not just "assisting" with them.
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126. JRMacClure
"I asked if it was legal for voters to have the POLITICAL PARTY request the postal vote for them which is what the tear off on the bottom of Murphy's mailer said to do."
It didn't say that at all. As described at #52 there was a reply form with an option labelled, "I might not be around on polling day and would like to apply to vote by post". It says nothing about the party making the application on the respondent's behalf. How would this even be possible? An unauthorised third party can do no more than assist with the formalities.
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128. JRMacClure
"And to put an end to this whole "you're a nut case if you express a concern about postal votes" argument of yours..."
You are half right. I made no such argument.
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127. CassiusClaymore
Having read and commented on that dreadful performance (Jim Murphy says you are irrelevant!)I feel for you. If your blood is not yet sufficiently up then try this -
Labour MP Jim Murphy in Brown ad snub
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129. Electric Hermit
"It says nothing about the party making the application on the respondent's behalf. How would this even be possible? An unauthorised third party can do no more than assist with the formalities."
In which case HOW did the Labour Party "hold on to the applications for four weeks" according to the ELECTORAL COMMISSION. I take it the Electoral Commission is also a nut case in your oh-so-expert opinion.
I don't know if that is playing fast and loose with election regulations but it wouldn't be the first time. I don't think it would be fraud any more than holding on to the applications for 14 times as long as rules allow was.
But questioning the handling of these things is something that should be done. Politicians should know that they are being watched. Or are you telling me now that Britain is full of honest politicians who NEVER break the rules? *smirks*
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130. Electric Hermit
Typical of your attacks on me which you can't even manage to make honestly.
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129. Electric Hermit
""I might not be around on polling day and would like to apply to vote by post""
That implies that the return of the stub IS applying to vote by mail. What do YOU think "I would like to apply..." means?
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128. JRMacClure
"Labour Rapped Over By-election Postal Votes
PS. The report by election watchdog the Electoral Commission said Labour had held on to postal vote applications for up to four weeks longer than the two days allowed.
The report also pointed out that one in 20 postal vote applications had been rejected...
"
Tell me something. Why do you get so up in arms over the FACT that in the very recent past the Labour Party was rapped by the Electoral Commission over violating the rules regarding postal vote applications and try to deny that this is even possible?
What is it that you can't deal with about this. I have seen dozens of people on blogs and forums express concern about these issues of postal voting. Yet you act like you've never heard of it before.
Exactly what is it about this that you can't deal with? Now I'm off for bed and I'll leave you to deal with your own emotional issues.
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Has nobody interdicted the 1st debate on ITV yet, the one on 'domestic' issues ? I imagine Broon must be sweating like a snowman on a sunbed. I can just hear Cameron now, 'Gordon Brown's constituents aren't even affected by the decisions he takes on health, education and policing'. That's pretty much all Cameron has to say to win that debate. I will be tuning in, after 13 years of Brown playing to middle-England I don't want to miss the final act.
I see Salmond will take part in a debate on Sky and Angus Robertson will debate on BBC/STV. Good idea. The unionists will obviously try to debate on devolved issues, so Robertson will be well placed to counter that. Judging by his performance with Andrew Neil recently he will be a skilled performer.
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#127 Cassius Claymore
I sympathise. I don't live in your area but I have thought about whether I want Murphy to win or not, he is so creepy.
I guess on balance I'd rather have 0 tory MPs in Scotland and as compensation for Murphy winning there is always the fact that he will be kicked out of Dover House.
The idea of a tory government AND them winning in East Renfrewshire is horrendous. If we must have a tory government then let it be with 0 MPs in Scotland.
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137. govanite
"If we must have a tory government then let it be with 0 MPs in Scotland."
Pleasing as the thought is, I don't like the idea of Tory voters being so totally disenfranchised. They're the people of Scotland too.
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#127 CassiusClaymore
Like #137 govanite I too sympathise, however I will vote with my conscience and be voting for my SNP candidate even though the seat will be a close run between Lib Dems and Labour.
I take some heart from the fact that the lib dem candidates poster is predominantly yellow with his name in large black lettering and has a saltire emblazoned on it – trying to appeal to the SNP voter I wonder or running scared and trying to get the vote by a subliminal message – these posters are by the side of a busy road and you really only have time to take in the name and the saltire.
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[Trying hard to get a post in this morning before the blog is shut.]
#127 Cassius Claymore.
Ouch.
This is a difficult one. Fact is, however, that Scotland will never be a Tory-Free zone. The PR Systems in the Councils, Parly and Europe ensure that. Yeah, sure, it's a nice one-liner.
And nor should the Nation be a Tory-Free Zone. Like it or not, there is a small fraction of the population who will vote for the Tories and as democrats we should welcome their voice and their participation in our democracy. And the fact that their representatives do occasionally contribute to the good governance of the Nation unlike the mindless negativity and sheep-like baa-ing of the Grey Man and his skilled and talented Cohorts.
As an avowed and acknowledged Ultra-Cyber-Nat, were I living in East Ren, I would be voting tactically for the candidate best placed to give the Murph our very own Caledonian Portillo Moment. But I'ld be going down to the local office and asking where I could best put in a few hours leafleting.
Anyway, I disagree. Whoever Wins the UK General Election, NuLab, Tory or Coalition, simply brings the Dawning of the Day closer. The cuts coming from Westmunster will highlight that we are not they, and they are not us.
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103. Electric Hermit
"Are we supposed to believe this is not intended to serve the Tory/BLP alliance's strategy of pretending the SNP does not exist."
'Just ignore them and they'll go away' certainly seems to be the strategy EH.
Let's hope the shenanigans register with the electorate's sense of fairness!
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109. hamish42
"Newsnight Scotland could invite Margaret Cuthbert and Jim Cuthbert onto the programe to hear their side of the story on Scotland's finances"
It's nice to have dreams!
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124. FatherMacKenzie
"Pete Wishart was one of the most vocal in his support"
Aye, so i'd read! I'm wondering if the SNP have simply decided to take their lead from him - labouring under the assumption that he knows what he's talking about.
It's a shame, for more savvy potential voters who understand the impacts of new technologies on society, media and business it is very bad for a party to demonstrate that they don't really get it. The Lib Dems are going to catch a few votes from this, and the votes they catch will be the votes of people who'll tend to be active socially in the internet environments.
I think you're probably right that it might be difficult to enforce - but it may not stop them from trying (e.g. the UK govt may yet end up at the European Court of Justice of their role in allowing Phorm & BT's covert interception and profiling of internet users). Also, i'm not sure if anyone will actually make time to rework it in the next parliament.
These are the pitfalls of bad laws meeting bad lawmaking!
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127. CassiusClaymore
"Anyone else faced with a similar moral maze style dilemma?"
My sympathies CassiusClaymore!
I understand your motivation, although if it were me i'd simply vote for the party i support.
IMO If everyone does it, eventually the landscape gets a chance to change - how many non SNP voters actually want to vote SNP? We'll never know if everyone keeps voting 'tactically'.
It's a toughie for you though - best of luck in coming to a decision.
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#Re posts 127 Cassius Claymore and 137 Govanite...........I was born and bred in Govan and now live in the Mearns.
Murphy is my MP and I would consider voting for anybody who gets rid of him.................................and that includes the Tories.However I dont think that he will be thrown out. For some reason the MSM and the BBC seem to worship him and have given him a great press image,since he was sent up here to pacify the Jocks. I should add that the last time I voted Tory was in the late Sixties. But it would be worth it to get rid of Murphy.
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#120. At 03:46am on 09 Apr 2010, JRMacClure wrote:"I haven't read much about the candidates and wonder if anyone has seen their mailings or hustings".
There is no doubt that Livingston is a loose cannon. The once solid Labour seat was held by Robin Cook - one of the few really honest Unionist ministers. He was replaced, with a great loss of majority, by his, now disgraced, election agent, Jim Devine. Devine was barred by Labour from being their candidate, after he claimed expenses for work on his home from a non-existent firm. He also faced questions over a £2,326 claim for shelving work said to have been carried out by the landlord of his local pub. So there are many unusual effects from that alone. It is likely to be more affected by the sleaze question than by the quality of the candidates.
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#101 mrbfaethedee
"Extremely disappointed to see the my own MP (Stewart Hosie) voted Yes to give the Digital Economy Bill a nod and a wink on to the next stage." &
#124 FatherMacKenzie
"I'm also very disappointed with the SNP stance on the DE bill ... I understand that the Law Society of Scotland have said it is pretty much unenforceable as it stands due to incompatibility with the EHRC, and the Tories have said if they get in they'll be ripping it up and starting again."
That makes three of us. With a fair, STV, voting system, the Pirate Party [oddly missing from the BBC list] would be getting a lot of first preferences from younger voters.
I'm only slightly surprised that the dead tree press don't give it much coverage as their owners clearly have interests to protect. This website's Plans to tackle internet piracy 'breach human rights' is as good as I've seen.
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#120
What the SNP really need to do is get out a list of their target seats based on the Euro and Scottish government polls.
All seats where the SNP either:
Control the council wards
Polled first or close second in the euros
won the SCottish parliment seat
Should all be targets. Voters need to know what these seats are so that the target of 20 seats is viewed as realistic.
I find it laughable that the MSM quote as many targets to be taken from the SNP as to be won by the SNP. It is all part of the general narrative of "this election will change nothing in Scotland, Just keep doing what you've always done".
That narrative basically translates to: "you are disenfranchised, shut up and go home, and take your pesky little two bit party with you"
The SNP need to counter this by pointing out to people where their vote may have an effect, and may affect change.
John
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#138 Electric Hermit
"Pleasing as the thought is, I don't like the idea of Tory voters being so totally disenfranchised. They're the people of Scotland too."
Fair comment, but the Tories are the most implacably opposed to fair voting and so one can surmise that at least their leadership don't care about disenfranchising anyone simply because the 1872 plurality system is their only hope of governing alone.
I sympathise with CassiusClaymore's "moral maze style dilemma" but can see the logic of his arguments.
One could add to those that, if one can believe anything Labour say [granted a very big if], then a vote for the viceroy this time might just result in an AV system next time, which would allow him to cast his true first preference honestly. A vote for his "official" unionist opponent would offer no such glimmer of hope.
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Cameron said in his radio interview "what I would do is govern Scotland with respect."He repeated it.No acknowledgment that the Scottish Government does most of the governing while he(Cameron) would be holding the purse strings as PM and would not be governing.The choice of that word govern is highly revealing.
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#141. At 08:51am on 09 Apr 2010, mrbfaethedee wrote:"Just ignore them and they'll go away' certainly seems to be the strategy"
I had a wee picture pop-up in my mind with that post. Do you remember those old comic seaside postcards? One had two large ladies with a very large Elephant behind them. One lady is saying, "Ignore it, Mabel, and it'll go away". My wee mental picture had the Elephant with the SNP logo painted on it's side. There was a whole series on the theme of, "Ignore it and it will go away", with the two large ladies and other, "large things", and most were quite saucy. I leave it to your imagination as to those saucy ones.
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My #147 was referred without ever seeing the light of day, probably because it linked to the website of a party implacably opposed to the Digital Economy Bill, so I'll try a Bowdlerised version....
#101 mrbfaethedee
"Extremely disappointed to see the my own MP (Stewart Hosie) voted Yes to give the Digital Economy Bill a nod and a wink on to the next stage." &
#124 FatherMacKenzie
"I'm also very disappointed with the SNP stance on the DE bill ... I understand that the Law Society of Scotland have said it is pretty much unenforceable as it stands due to incompatibility with the EHRC, and the Tories have said if they get in they'll be ripping it up and starting again."
That makes three of us. With a fair, STV, voting system, a party beginning with P oddly missing from the BBC list but which achieved some success recently in faraway mainland Europe would be getting a lot of first preferences from younger voters.
I'm only slightly surprised that the dead tree press don't give the DE bill much coverage as their owners clearly have interests to protect. This website's Plans to tackle internet piracy 'breach human rights' is as good as I've seen.
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#145. At 09:18am on 09 Apr 2010, euan0709 wrote:"For some reason the MSM and the BBC seem to worship him and have given him a great press image,since he was sent up here to pacify the Jocks".
The description that springs to my mind when I see the Smurf is, "lugubrious". Has quite a ring to it, "The lugubrious Mr Murphy".
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PS to my #152
Re the referral of my #147, the BBC's own http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/8199143.stm mentions and links to the party in question.
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I have, today, sent a complaint to ofcom about biased censorship.
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Small point to raise here:
This is a Westminster election, but we have major figures from all parties in the Scottish Parliament running around helping to get votes.
How exactly are they being transported, and is the Scottish Parliament not supposed to be running "business as usual"?
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#153
Now I know what the log-jam in the moderation was: Someone was trying to find a dictionary ;-)
John
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Double Standards Or What
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6904821.stm
This story, from 2007, whilst worthy and interesting, is one that you can still "vote" on. [I clicked on it out of interest this morning as it appears in the Most Popular Stories Read tab]
BwB, "All that's Latest From The Election Campaign Trail", gets the plug pulled after 24 hours.
Your (compulsory) License Fee in Action
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#142
"Newsnight Scotland could invite Margaret Cuthbert and Jim Cuthbert onto the programe to hear their side of the story on Scotland's finances"
It was just a suggestion, with the premise that the BBC actually read what it says on these blogs and if you don't ask you don't get. Where are you Gordon Brewer?
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151. Auld Bob
"I had a wee picture pop-up in my mind with that post. Do you remember those old comic seaside postcards?"
...
"and most were quite saucy."
Lol!
I'll put it down to having to much time on your hands ;)
If only the SNP were campaigning in Brighton and the like AuldBob, you could be coining it in as the SNP's ad company!
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#156. At 10:41am on 09 Apr 2010, enneffess wrote:
1 - "This is a Westminster election, but we have major figures from all parties in the Scottish Parliament running around helping to get votes".
What point are you attempting to highlight here? Is it that you think the Holyrood parties should not be involved. Is it that you suspect they are using official Holyrood transport - or both?
2 - "How exactly are they being transported, and is the Scottish Parliament not supposed to be running 'business as usual'?"
May I turn the the questions back upon you? Why do the Westminster party leaders involve themselves in Holyrood elections and how are they transported while they are supposed to be Westminster business as usual?
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152. Brownedov
"That makes three of us. With a fair, STV, voting system, a party beginning with P oddly missing from the BBC list but which achieved some success recently in faraway mainland Europe would be getting a lot of first preferences from younger voters."
Indeed Brownedov, and well spotted, i hadn't noticed the Pirate Party had been left out. Perhaps because they are a 'single-issue' party? Or perhaps the parties need to be contesting a certain number of seats?
The libdems seem to be doing well out of it judging by internet chatter, I wonder if the PP will suffer in the UK because of that.
Of course, the Scottish experience alone should warn anyone to discount single-issue parties at their peril. This 'single-isssue', like others before it actually encompases a myriad issues.
At a time when so much of our social, political and cultural interaction and discourse takes place over the internet, the short-sighted way in which the political mainstream is allowing vested interests to define the future of that environment is breathtaking. And saddening.
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Ooops! Seems that the Herald are off-message today and in danger of giving the game away in this snippet from their The role of Scots in this crucial election re the L-Ds:
"Their leader, Nick Clegg, also concentrated on the economy launching their Scottish campaign in Glasgow but his party must rectify the claim that the contest in Scotland is between Labour and the SNP if it is not to be confined to the margins."
And re the Tories:
"Hague’s ... message of the importance of “a strong Scottish voice within a Conservative majority” is an acknowledgment that it would be a hollow victory for the Conservative and Unionist party unless they increase the Scottish contingent beyond the present solitary representative."
No wonder the article is unattributed! Didn't they get the viceroy's don't mention the SNP fiat?
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159. hamish42
" 'Newsnight Scotland could invite Margaret Cuthbert and Jim Cuthbert onto the programe to hear their side of the story on Scotland's finances' "
...
"It was just a suggestion,"
And, to be clear, an excellent one!
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Forget about firing up the Quattro, someone at SNP HQ should be getting something like this two horse race picture at Moridura pasted up near every bookies in the country.
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152. Brownedov, I'm also very disappointed with the SNP support for the DE Bill.
So as that makes 4 of us and as I see enneffess is about, I'm sure he'll waste no time in burning his "cybernats believe SNP can do no wrong t-shirt".
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163. Brownedov
"Ooops! Seems that the Herald are off-message today and in danger of giving the game away in this snippet from their The role of Scots in this crucial election"
The brief article is an excellent outlier amongst the current coverage!
I wonder how Tarnished Goldie (remember her) feels hearing Hague saying such things? If I recall correctly she seemed quite adamant that a UK win for the tories was quite sufficient as a mandate to govern Scotland, thank you very much!
Broadening things, given that the media have decided that this is election will be dominated by the economy, why is it not turning its jaded old eye to the fact that the UK parties positions on the topic deal mainly with symptoms rather than causes? Why aren't they running down the parties on why they aren't talking about radical overhaul of financial sector regulation, regenerating the economy to have more (productive) sectors, etc...?
I include the SNP in the above - actually, if they had a clear and workable set of proposals on the matter, it could be a very useful strategy.
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#162 mrbfaethedee
"Of course, the Scottish experience alone should warn anyone to discount single-issue parties at their peril. This 'single-isssue', like others before it actually encompases a myriad issues."
Spot on. Despite the numerous referrals, many of my own and others' posts attempting to warn BBC Scotland of the peril of discounting a single-issuemajor party beginning with S are actually trying to help the BBC from becoming sidelined itself. Much good it seems to do us!
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
And now the crass hypocrisy of Murphy and his cosy cabal of New Labourites in the West of Scotland is exposed for all to see regarding his defence of the indefensible re MacLellan the also ran in Moray !
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#165 mrbfaethedee
"someone at SNP HQ should be getting something like this two horse race picture at Moridura pasted up near every bookies in the country."
Spot on. A certain librarian's blogspot seems to be entirely off-limits, hence the removal of my #169 meaning that I cannot link to an image which should be displayed near every Youth Club in the nation.
#167 mrbfaethedee
"Why aren't they running down the parties on why they aren't talking about radical overhaul of financial sector regulation, regenerating the economy to have more (productive) sectors, etc...?
I include the SNP in the above - actually, if they had a clear and workable set of proposals on the matter, it could be a very useful strategy."
Quite so. Such things must have been thought about in conjunction with the referendum proposals in terms of what could happen post fiscal autonomy or independence, and shedding a little more light on them could help them to clarify the real choice.
Off out shortly but back tonight, I hope, albeit presumably not on this thread.
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Here one minute ...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/scotland/8610934.stm
Gone the next! :-)
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Brian
I suppose at some point the parties will have to confront the elephant in the room which is the economy. In the light of the FT's 'Price of oil may kill the recovery' and the SNP's insistence that 'It's Scotland's Oil', is not the effect of the oil price on the recovery that all the "major" parties are hoping will bail out their promises and the SNP desire for independence with all the oil reserves not worthy of a comment more than Mr Clegg's time-keeping?
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104. At 11:54pm on 08 Apr 2010, Brownedov wrote:
(Next time you meet with politicians from all four of Scotland's major parties - your Big Debate tomorrow would be a good opportunity - perhaps you'd ask them all to clarify their differences on defence policy? As an aide memoire, you could use the Thunderer's new leader - Arms and the Plan.)
A very relevant election question Brian, and I totally disagree with the thunderer on this one.
UK Nuclear Deterrent
There is no current threat to the UK that warrants the cost and immorality of having a Trident submarine at sea capable of incinerating all life on half a continent.
Nor is there IMHO any prospect of such a threat emerging in, say, the next ten years. You can discount Iran as
1. Their first target, should they acquire nuclear weapons, would be Israel, which would be a fairly final move if they attempted it.
2. They do not have a delivery vehicle that would be capable of reaching the UK without being intercepted.
The true issue here is should a threat emerge:
1. How quickly will it materialise?
2. And how quickly would it take to create a relevant deterrent?
The first time scale is measured again IMHO in years.
The second, all precedents show, would undoubtedly be shorter, especially as the UK would still have the knowledge, if not the equipment.
All the above argument is multiplied when considering Scotland as an independent nation, hence my unwavering support for the only mainstream Scottish party advocating nuclear disarmament.
B Aircraft carriers
According to the IFS the UK economy will be shunted below e.g. Brazil, Canada and India in the next five years. In fact by 2015 there is a real risk the UK might no longer be eligible to be in the G20.
As such why on earth does the UK want to be commissioning two ships (the largest ever for these seafaring islands) just as she is struggling to stay in the top twenty economies of the World? What would they be protecting, increasing poverty?
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#152 Brownedov and #166 Grassy
A full five ranting Cybernats decry the Party Line, but then, I think that we've all volubly criticised the Party on more than one occasion in more than one place.
This is bad law and if CMD and the expected incoming Tory UK Government strikes it down I'll personally have no complaints other than the fact that it IS a Tory UK Government.
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172 - "Quick get "scoop" and anyone else available to shove cats,goats,tigers up trees. Or else we will have to report this story about a labour candidate insulting old folk, black people,Roman Catholics,women and the poor".
Still no comment from mr gray about mr P. Where is "hard questions" ?
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166. At 11:43am on 09 Apr 2010, GrassyKnollington wrote:
152. Brownedov, I'm also very disappointed with the SNP support for the DE Bill.
"So as that makes 4 of us and as I see enneffess is about, I'm sure he'll waste no time in burning his "cybernats believe SNP can do no wrong t-shirt"."
The tshirt burning's a doddle, it's removing the tattoo that's causing me problems!
-----------------------------
161. Auld Bob:
I have exactly the same views about Westminster politicians sticking their nose in the Holyrood elections when they should be concentrating on parliamentary business. After all, that is what they are voted in to do.
Ian Gray should be taking no part nor should any MSP. Alex Salmond is an exception since until Tuesday held a seat in Westminster.
And official Scottish Parliament vehicles should absolutely NOT be used for a Westminster election. That is effectively the taxpayer funding a political campaign. And my arguments apply to ALL parties.
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174. impeachblair:
Probably going to sell the aircraft carriers to Argentina, then find them use against us in the Falklands.......
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Voting power is a postcode lottery, reveals new website
Find out how powerful your vote is compared to the UK average
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That Twitter Story in Full
10.50 am
Scottish Secretary Jim Murphy tells the BBC that Stuart MacLennan, the Labour parliamentary candidate who has apologised for using offensive language on Twitter, will not be deselected.
12.57 pm
Scottish Secretary Jim Murphy says he was not a follower of Stuart MacLennan's Twitter feeds. When he became aware of their "sickening" contents, he acted quickly to remove him, he tells the BBC. Mr Murphy also apologises to the people of Moray for the former candidate's "breach of trust".
People of East Renfrewshire ! I have never liked this idea of calling your MP "Smurf".
But this clearly indicates not that he is small and Blue, but rather small, green and slimy.
Like that other Muppet, Kermit
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#Re posts 127 Cassius Claymore, 137 Govanite and 145 Euan0709 ...........
Why would ANYONE wish to vote for someone who is a member of the Labour Friends of Israel - a ZIONIST organisation which supports Israel's War Crimes, Crimes Against Humanity, Assassinations, Murder of Innocent men, Women and Children, International Terrorism etc., etc., and seeks to deny natural justice under Universal Jurisdiction contained in the 4th Geneva Convention.
The Conservatives, of whom 80% of the MPs are members of Conservative Friends of Israel, and the Liberal Democrat Frieds of Israel, both with the same agenda are no better.
Better to vote for one of the Independant Parties and get rid of the money grabbing yes-men who have dominated Westminster for the last 80+ years, review all the laws protecting such people (i.e. MPs) and start again.
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174. impeachblair
"B Aircraft carriers"
They have now been described as floating coffins as the Chinese have developed a missile which breeches all known defences to these targets.
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156. enneffess
"How exactly are they being transported, and is the Scottish Parliament not supposed to be running "business as usual"?"
On holiday until the 13th.
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172. Dougie-Dubh
"Here one minute ...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/scotland/8610934.stm
Gone the next! :-)"
According to Guido only after he confided to friends that he was going to resign.
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Has anybody let the Fragrant Ms Renton know that Moray Northern British NuLab are now frantically looking for a PPC ? Does she Tweet ?
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168. Brownedov
"Spot on. Despite the numerous referrals, many of my own and others' posts attempting to warn BBC Scotland of the peril of discounting a single-issuemajor party beginning with S are actually trying to help the BBC from becoming sidelined itself. Much good it seems to do us!"
Would that they saw it as such!
As for the Real Thing; class as usual from Conan the Librarian.
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177 enneffess wrote, "The tshirt burning's a doddle, it's removing the tattoo that's causing me problems!"
lol, I too have regrets about the large one I got in honour of a previous topic on Brian's blog. It was asking if Viceroy Murphy was the King who turned back the tide but unfortunately the tattoo artist spelled it correctly.
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Re The War in Afghanistan - what is the UK Governments policy on the eradication of Opium growing (and production of heroin) in Helman Province? Since the "overthow" of the Taleban in 2001 when the Taleban had virtually wiped out ALL the Opium crops in Afghanistan, in Helman provice alone (the main area of production and where the UK military are "fighting" the Taleban), opium popies now cover nearly 200,000 hectacres and production has increased by a factor of over 50!!!!
Why is the British and US military not destroying these crops??
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I can't imagine why in a thread discussing the visit of a leader of one of the main parties where he tries to paint one of the other political parties as irrelevant, would find a graphical depiction of the real choice in Scotland a subject for moderation - The Real Thing
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172. Dougie-Dubh
"Here one minute ...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/scotland/8610934.stm
Gone the next! :-)"
Lol! Very good Dougie-Dubh!
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Afghanistan cultivates drugs on record vast area under US invasion
The drug production, instead of its eradication, has registered a hike of 40 times more than the lowest in 2001 in all the previous 14 years.
Illicit drugs production, an issue of global concern in Afghanistan, has set a new record of peak escalation in the war on terror period as compared to previous Taliban-led rule over the land-locked country.
"Almost a twenty times additional land has been brought under drugs cultivation in seven years of US-led forces’ control and Karazi administration in Afghanistan,” said official sources while handing over the latest statistics on the neighbouring country.
"Almost a twenty times additional land has been brought under drugs cultivation in seven years of US-led forces’ control and Karazi administration in Afghanistan,” said official sources while handing over the latest statistics on the neighbouring country.
Following 9/11 attacks and Taliban’s refusal to hand over Osama bin Laden to the US, the allied forces ousted the regime in end-2001, the year during which poppy opium cultivation was at the lowest ebb in Afghanistan’s history from 1994 onwards and till today.
The surge in production and areas brought under cultivation of prohibited drugs may be unbelievable for civilized societies to be suffering ultimately with continuous enhancement of the booming worldwide drugs trade.
The latest figures reveals that the drug production, instead of its eradication, has registered a hike of 40 times more than the lowest in 2001 in all the previous 14 years during which the Taliban emerged, fell and the sole superpower installed its favourites.
Similarly 20 times more area has been brought under cultivation of opium poppy in the last seven years as it was just 7,606 hectares in the year 2001 against presently 1,57,000 hectares, a bad example that would ultimately hit the masses damaging their fundamentals.
Telling a true story of permanent increase in opium poppy cultivation since 2001, the Foreign Office sources said the production reduced to only 185 tons in the year 2001 but now it stands at 7,700 tons a year, with an unanswered question as to whether Afghans can use all or drugs mafia supplies the major chunk to the rest of the world.
The sudden increase in the prohibited drugs, an international worry, is alarming as these directly target people whether living in the region or other parts of the world. “The US would have results far better had it used a few billions for drugs control in the long-term benefits of the people,” the official referring to figures, worked out by the UN and other global organizations, said.
Statistics also reveal that opium poppy was being cultivated on 71,470 hectares in 1994 that gradually, with negligible ups and downs, touched the lowest figure of 7,606 hectares in 2001.
According to these statistics, the opium poppy cultivation in hectares was 74,000, 80,000, 1,31,000, 1,04,000, 1,65,000 and 1,93,000 respectively in the years, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006 and 2007 as the international coalition took over Afghanistan in end-2001. The majority of the crops are growing in Helman Province where the UK and US military are carrying out operations against the Taleban.
Likewise, the production of drugs was recorded as 3,400, 3,600, 4,200, 3,800, 6,100 and 8,200 tons in 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006 and 2007 respectively, reflecting a consistency in upward trend.
According to international media reports, the US spent almost US$60 billion besides donors’ US$3 billion till 2008 in the name of war on terror, reconstruction and its various aspects in Afghanistan since 2001. But how would the superpower control prohibited drugs production in that country if all energies are spent on the use of force.
So one has to ask the question - WHAT ARE WE ACTUALLY DOING IN AFGHANISTAN? ARE WE SUPPORTING THE INTERNATIONAL DRUG TRADE TO HARM OUR OWN PEOPLE OF (SUPPOSEDLY) DEFENDING OUR COUNTRY AGAINT (NON-EXISTANT) TERRORISTS AND WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION WHICH COULD ONLY BE DELIVERED COURTECY OF DHL OR TNT ETC., ETC.
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Stranage that you can get sacked for tweeting but left to walk out of your own free will from a well paid job for what I would assume was a much more serious set of circumstances.
#185
Mr Gray might want to try for the moray post - we could do with someone who seems hell-bent on improving his local train set and our single track 3 trains a day line could sure do with GARLing up to the current century.
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Coffin dodgers of the world unite and down with Labour (new, tarnished, or otherwise).
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In the aftermath of Stuart Maclennan's sacking I'm sure we can look forward to the many and varied articles looking at this in the context of the wider malaise/problem of the cyberbrits. There will be cries of how "something should be done" about the wider Britnat problem and how Iain Gray/Gordon Brown should take responsibility. Oh yes indeedy.
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Reported on www.thefirstpost.co.uk:
A Muslim group in northern England has demanded that the British Army immediately takes down replica mosques it has erected on its firing range at Catterick in Yorkshire. The Bradford Council for Mosques (BCM) is also demanding an apology. "We are conditioning the young British to say that mosques are a place where you are going to find danger and a place to target," said Ishtiaq Ahmed of the BCM.
The Ministry of Defence has responded that the structures "replicated the environment" of Agfhanistan, which is the territory for which the troops using the firing range are being trained. The MoD said it had "no intention" of causing offence.
There are seven green-domed structures on the range and there is little doubt as to what they are supposed to replicate. Ishtiaq Ahmed said: "The shape of the structures, the colour of the dome - the green dome - symbolises an Islamic place of worship."
Saleem Khan, chief executive of the BCM, wants the structures removed from the range. "Anyone looking at it will think about mosques and Muslims and think about them negatively."
Despite saying it had no intention of "offending religious sensibilities", the MoD has given no indication that it will bow to pressure from the BCM. A spokesman said the firing range had been redesigned in response to feedback from soldiers returning from Helmand province.
"Providing the best training facilities for our armed forces ahead of deployment to operational theatres is a priority for us," the spokesman said. "It is crucial that our armed forces train at ranges that replicate the environment they will be deployed to."
Coincidentally, the row has blown up just a month after a council in Surrey turned down a proposal to build a mosque within half a mile of the Royal Military Academy at Sandhurst.
The local Bengali welfare association wanted to pull down a Victorian school building and erect in its place a mosque complete with 100ft minarets which, according to reports, would have overlooked Sandhurst, where generations of British Army officers have done their training.
One wonders why they do not erect replica churches or synagogues - or maybe that would offend members of Labour Friends of Israel, Conservative Friends of Israel or Liberal Democrat Friends of Israel and possible cut off vast amounts of these parties' funding. One wonders how much money is paid by such organisations to serving MPs and where EXACTLY does the money come from, and what influence is it paying for??????????
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Regarding Stuart MacLennan's online trash-talking, I assume we will see at least the same level of outrage and scalp-hunting ( i believe he worked under Pauline McNeil) as we saw following a certain cheesy cybernat?
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We were promised a look at the Mr Maclennan's comments on BBC Scotland's lunchtime news, but they were whipped across the screen in high speed mode and unreadable. The excuse will be there were too many F words for sensitive viewers to witness, but they could have let us know about the "coffin dodgers" comment. Of course that would have insulted the pensioners and damaged Labour too much. I look forward to the evening news to see if they will expnad on it a bit more or will they just close the book on the subject.
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172. Dougie-Dubh
"Here one minute ...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/scotland/8610934.stm
Gone the next! :-)"
Disgraceful behaviour, and I note that Gordon Brown has thus far singularly failed to apologise, grovel, self-flagellate and prostrate himself at the feet of every constituent of Moray, user of Twitter and literate lifeform on Earth. He really has to get these odious cybertrots under control and clamp down on the horrendous litany of smears and slurs that vast numbers of Labour supporters peddle on the internet 24/7.
After all, party leaders are wholly responsible for every single utterance of anyone intimately or remotely connected with their party, aren't they? Or does that ridiculous notion only apply to the SNP I wonder...?
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#188
"Why are they not destroying these crops.."
The theory is (or so I have read) that they need something to replace the poppies to give the populace an income, otherwise the local farmers will all join up with the Taliban who will welcome them with open arms.
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188. coineach watson
"Why is the British and US military not destroying these crops??"
You'll have to ask there respective secret service agencies that one!
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Labour PPC Stuart MacLennan
Labour's initial response is that MacLennan is a young candidate and has made a mistake. Let's see if that remains the position throughout today or whether they have to sack him.
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196. Darn it mrb, in my orders this morning from the sinister Dr. Eckvil, he said I could take that line !
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What this BWB blog still open after 24 hours, well I never, clearly standards are falling ;-)
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Allegedly:
"Iain Gray, leader of the Labour party in Scotland, said that Maclennan had the ‘full backing of the Labour Party’ – none of his Twitter followers deleted him.
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202. GrassyKnollington
"196. Darn it mrb, in my orders this morning from the sinister Dr. Eckvil, he said I could take that line !"
Sorry Sir! Even in the tightest of cybernat conspiracies, there's always going to be shome mishtakes!
btw - Dr. Eckvil - LOL!
That's the sort of thing that always makes me think of you as GrassyLOLington :)
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Labour fielded a candidate in Moray who referred to that constituency's voters as "teuchters".The Labour candidate in neighbouring Inverness,Nairn,Badenoch and Strathspey must be greetin.
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202. GrassyKnollington
"Darn it mrb, in my orders this morning from the sinister Dr. Eckvil, he said I could take that line !"
You need to be faster off the bat. Mr. Eckvil will give you a beating for that. And did a certain British Labour Party candidate steal all your expletives? Tsk!
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