Cut to the elephant
As so often, the best gag emerged from Annabel Goldie.
Delivering the opening formulaic question, the Tory leader inquired when the First Minister would next meet the Prime Minister - "the current one, that is."
Not sure whether to credit her timing and delivery or her scriptwriter - but it was a decent wheeze during a slightly unusual session of questions to the FM.
Unusual, for two reasons. One, the overwhelming, looming presence of the UK General Election. Vince Cable would probably call it the elephant in the chamber.
Two, the huge impact of the Icelandic volcanic eruption upon travel in these islands. Especially the islands distinct from the main body of land.
On reflection, I imagine most MSPs would agree that this particular development merited a separate statement from the Scottish Government.
Alex Salmond turned his opening remarks to Labour's Iain Gray into a quasi-statement.
Hovering beast
Tavish Scott reflected his status not just as Lib Dem leader but as MSP for Shetland in pursuing detailed inquiries on the issue. He got detailed answers.
But, somehow, it was all a little unsatisfactory, a little muddled.
Still, back to the elephant: the General Election. The hovering beast made its presence felt. Tends to happen.
Mr Gray pursued the issue of knife crime: would the first minister seek to reverse the Justice Committee's support of mandatory prison sentences for carrying knives?
His attack was strong. There was no point, he roared, in recruiting extra police officers if the FM was going to let their quarries loose.
Mr Salmond said the issue would be settled by the whole Parliament, while noting that senior police officers who work in this particular field have spoken out strongly against compulsory jail.
So far, so devolved. But Mr Gray, of course, could not resist lampooning the SNP's "champions" campaign in the General Election.
Too prissy?
And Mr Salmond, equally, could not resist accusing Labour of planning damaging cuts in Scottish public spending.
I stress, I do not remotely blame them. They are politicians, seeking votes for their parties and for their chums who are standing for Westminster.
It did not, however, add much to the understanding of either the election campaign in Scotland or, indeed, the knife crime issue which will fall to be settled by Holyrood.
I know, I know - I am being far too prissy about these things. Guilty as charged.
However, the pedant in me points out that a General Election is not simply a loose plebiscite on a range of issues, devolved and reserved.
It is not an opinion poll.
It is an offer to elect representatives who will cast their votes on our behalf on issues that come before the House of Commons.
For Scotland, those issues are reserved matters, not devolved. The broad economy, not health. Defence, not education. Welfare, not policing.
Update at 1655: Parliament seems to have listened. An emergency statement on the volcanic cloud was made by Finance Secretary John Swinney.
I'm 
~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~54~RS~)
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Brian
"However, the pedant in me points out that a General Election is not simply a loose plebiscite on a range of issues, devolved and reserved."
That's not pedantic. That's accurate - at least it would be if Westminster parties and the TV companies hadn't turned it into a version of Pop Idol, where the producers have selected only 3 participants from the many possible contenders.
Nor would it be pedantic to note that Westminster politicians and the TV companies have hijacked a Parliamentary system and turned it into a quasi Presidential system (but without the necessary checks and balances).
I have no vote for any of the three gentlemen who are appearing in some English debate tonight. I may watch American Idol on ITV2 instead - I have the same chance to vote for any of them.
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Gray may well have lampooned the 'Local Champion' slogan but the voters will determine its effectiveness especially following the new revelations about Glasgow councillors.
Newsnet Scotland
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May I just remind everyone about the SNP election broadcast tonight.
You may also want to find out how to protest against the rigged "debates".
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Brian,
Your attempt reflects FMQ. Lots of words, nothing meaningful said really !
This was a blog from bmc875 - "As promised, as deleivered"!! (Has the belll gone yet?)
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Brian,
relieved to hear you on the radio this morning. I thought you had been kidnapped and spirited away.
John
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"For Scotland, those issues are reserved matters, not devolved. The broad economy, not health. Defence, not education. Welfare, not policing."
Perhaps you should explain that to your pals in the British Labour Party.
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Well done Brian, your last paragraph says it all yes politicians are going to vote on those issues mentioned but that is the whole point it should not go down to Westminster to decide if Scotland is to have nukes in the water, or what to priotities welfare and the economy why cant you get it through those red tinted glasses, The recovery starts now and the quicker Scotland has full control of all of its revenue the better it will be for everyone in Scotland not just Nats.
ONLINE ED keep up the good work very impressed with NEWSNET.
No canvasses in Stevenston yet, I am waiting eagerly to see what they have to say.
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How can the UK general election be the "elephant in the room" when we are told that Scotland is irrelevant in the context of that election?
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Saw this yesterday....
Tory government could hand financial reins to SNP - John Curtice writing in Times
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/scotland/article7097471.ece
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And we start another round of posts about the virtues of Alex Salmond, Labour dirty tricks, BBC corruption and bias, North Sea oil and striving to be like Norway. And did I mention the virtues of Alex Salmond?
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Oh and conspiracy theories. Lots of conspiracy theories.
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"Mr Gray pursued the issue of knife crime: would the first minister seek to reverse the Justice Committee's support of mandatory prison sentences for carrying knives?
His attack was strong. There was no point, he roared, in recruiting extra police officers if the FM was going to let their quarries loose."
This seems to be a complete waste of time. Did Mr Gray not understand that the issue would now go before the whole parliament to be decided upon. Rather than being "strong" it appears very weak to ask the FM about something that was passed on the casting vote of the chairman and returns to parliament to be dealt with. If I am wrong in this, I apologise for not understanding parliamentary procedure. If I am right, however, why is Mr Gray in such a position of authority?
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Says Brian....
"It is an offer to elect representatives who will cast their votes on our behalf on issues that come before the House of Commons."
Ahhh....
So it's not about electing a Prime Minister after all then Brian?
It's about electing representatives - presumably from those candidates who put themselves forward for election in individual constituencies?
Does that also mean that there might also be more than 3 parties worthy of balanced coverage and consideration?
I knew there was a democrat in there somewhere Brian!!
Well done you!
You may care to pass on this information to your employer, should you get the chance to discuss televised debates and such matters.
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the problem with labour campaigning on reserved issues, is that they are so vulnerable on them, so they haave to divert attention away, towards anything. I mean, look at the issues:
economy: end of boom and bust? Maybe the boom has ended, but not the bust. Raid on pension funds that are now seriously underfunded. 10p income tax, 50p income tax NI contributions. Last of the G20 to recover. fallen behind ireland in the standard of living tables. No meaningfull manafacturing industry.
Defence: overspend on 1 thing (trident) underspend on others (flak jackets, protective vehicles) 1 illegal war diverting attention away from another that now seems without end. Destroying the Scottish regiments.
Foreign policy: see defense, foreign aid less than promised, "Brittish jobs for Brittish workers". On fringes of europe, and america's lapdog, but no reciprocation.
Welfare: A generation that have never worked, and have no need to work. Growing gap between rich and poor. Asbos, and a broken society. Thatcher may have said there is no such thing as society, but it is new labour that have made that statement come true.
The question is: what have labour done, and what can they be proud of?
I'll give them the minimum wage and devolution (even though they have botched that), but nothing else springs to mind.
I guess that the fact that they spend all their time campaigning on devolved issues is an admission of the fact that they have botched all the reserved issues.
John
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Brian/
I watched First Ministers Questions and I'm still in shock. Ian Gray demolished Che Salmond. Gave him a right good kniving! Clearly the insurgency isn't going well.
My view is that a mandatory jail term for knive carriers should be introduced and could be a vital part of the way forward. However, I fear that our prison capacity might call into question the feasibility of such an approach. The Scottish people need and deserve to hear the arguments!
However, failing to answer simple questions and accusing the opposition of playing politics with the issue simply looked terrible on TV. Ian Gray was full of passion and articulated his case well. I've rarely seen the Labour backbenchers look so pleased and the SNP MSP's so glum. Everybody except Che himself could see that he was blowing it.
A poor performance by the First Minister who looked subdued from the word go. Che's poor judgement was there for all to see and it has done him damage. Perhaps he'll blame the Elephant in the Room but I blame his fundmental inclination never to tell the Scottish people the hard facts
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On previous blog, #61 said:
"As the article below shows replacing Trident would cost 97 billion pounds (so Mr Robertson not far off the mark) and that would include preparation costs for its replacement. Money that could be spent creating jobs to replace those lost when USA cancels Trident."
I trust you have no expectations that the saved cash would be spent in Scotland? Given that the vast bulk of the cost of Trident has come from England it is only reasonable that the vast bulk of the savings benefit the residents of England. I am sure this would be the case if we can just avoid another Westminster government where the front bench is dominated by minority representatives!
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Brian why is it that at the end of F/M questions you always have an anti SNP person by your side,and could you explain what Lab.amendment is as I can't make it out,If working in garden and I have a knife in my hand the police go past and see me do I then go to jail for 6 months please can you or anybody help.
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http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2010/04/15/scotland-speaks/
'However, the pedant in me points out that a General Election is not simply a loose plebiscite on a range of issues, devolved and reserved.
It is not an opinion poll.
It is an offer to elect representatives who will cast their votes on our behalf on issues that come before the House of Commons.
For Scotland, those issues are reserved matters, not devolved. The broad economy, not health. Defence, not education. Welfare, not policing.'
Indeed Brian, ask your BBC bosses why they are deliberately subverting this process.
The idea of 'Prime Ministerial' debates is an absurdity, none of us outside of three select constituencies across the UK can actually vote for any of the BBC's anointed 'Prime Ministerial Candidates'!
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"But Mr Gray, of course, could not resist lampooning the SNP's "champions" campaign in the General Election."
It comes as no surprise at all to hear that Iain Gray finds the notion of elected representatives putting their constituents first quaintly amusing.
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16. Jim Stevens
"My view is that a mandatory jail term for knive carriers should be introduced"
I was gardening this morning - tying up some plants. When I nipped up to the shops, I realised that I still had my knife in my pocket.
Why do you think I should be sent to jail for 6 months?
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
People who find Annabel's jokes funny must have a warped sense of humour. Much funnier is the look of dismay on Annabel's face when she receives Salmond's answer to her questions.
I do find the connotations on the mention of "the elephant in the room" slightly amusing. I wonder who he could be talking about?
"What have Labour done?"
Well even devolution was forced on them by the EU for political reasons and it was a last resort, so I don't know how they can take any credit for it. They implemented it, but that wasn't a policy decision, merely middle management following orders.
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17. Alan
"I trust you have no expectations that the saved cash would be spent in Scotland? Given that the vast bulk of the cost of Trident has come from England it is only reasonable that the vast bulk of the savings benefit the residents of England."
10% of £97 billion would do very nicely.
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Labour are adding yet another gunshot wound to their alrady badly damaged feet but are about to also spread even more egg over their already egg stained faces, (Aye! quite a yoke". Have they not learned the lesson of GARL? Are we now to suffer a bitter anti-government campaign for compulsory jail terms for possessing a knife? Has it not got through that the police forces are against this stupidity and, that under SNP rule, the average sentence for actually illegally using a knife are increased beyond the term proposed by Labour.
Not only that but Prisons have peen proven as colleges of crime for Scottish knife thugs. Figures released in May show the reoffending rate among knife criminals is 9 out of 10 at present in prison for knife crime are reofenders.
It also seems it will cost in excess of £80m to implement the Labour/Tory ammendment.
Just thnk about it for a moment - I own a motor home and often go into the Highland countryside to camp. One, almost essential, items of my kit is always a small penknife. I've carried it through the streets, hills and glens of Scotland for around 60 years. it has been used as a makeshift tin-opener, corkscrew, bottle opener, it has been used to puncture sausage skins, been a screwdriver, trimmed guy ropes, peeled potatoes, spread sandwiches and God knows what else besides. Then there was an even smaller penknife I used when I was a pipe smoker. You cannot cut baccy with a pencil, now can you? Will I run the risk of jail every time I venture out now?
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Thanks Brian - I'm sure the many readers of your Blog don't understand Devolution....
"For Scotland, those issues are reserved matters, not devolved. The broad economy, not health. Defence, not education. Welfare, not policing."
So - if we want an economy in tatters - Bust not Boom in Gordon's words - we should vote New Labour?
Or if we think Scotland can do better than live off London's benevolence - Vote SNP.
So - if we want illegal wars - and want to spend Billions on an exciting New Nuclear missile system - we should vote New Labour?
Or if we think Scotland can do better and play a smaller but more positive role in the World - Vote SNP.
And - So - if we want a Welfare System - where the gap between rich and poor widens - and where billionaires call the shots - we should vote New Labour?
Or if we think Scotland can do better and create a fairer, more socially just society - Vote SNP.
See - I've gone and written your next Blog....
Slainte Mhor
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We've not even had the party leader debates yet, and already a poisonous fog has descended over the country.
Spooky.
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I have a Swiss Army knife keyring. It's about 1.5 inches long when closed. It has a tweezers, toothpick, scissors, screwdriver & nailfile combined, and a blade not much more than 1 inch long.
I'm never without it. It's great.
There - I said it. I'm a criminal in waiting.
I think the mandatory sentence for carrying a knife is unworkable.
Insufficient Prison Space
Criminalising innocents
Potentially greater punishment for wearing Higland Dress than for beating someone up with a baseball bat, chain, golf club etc.
Difficulty with Police search powers
End of Barbeques & eating in public places, even restaurants (certainly steaks!), and certainly outdoors.
Completely ridiculous. Try listening to the police and judiciary who are the poor beggars who would have to try (and fail) to implement it.
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#11. At 2:12pm on 15 Apr 2010, Denno wrote:"And did I mention the virtues of Alex Salmond"?
Yes you did - and it is so nice to read about, at least one, politico who has virtue and integrity.
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re 16
For goodness sake how can you possibly discuss knife crime seriously when you actually use the terminology of " a right good kniving " What primary school do you attend ? Also how was a quote like that ( aimed at anyone ) allowed by the ever vigilant moderators.
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16 "Hey" Jimmy Stevens
Think you've been absorbing too much New Labour literature?
Is this Government locking up more people for carrying offensive weapons than the Lib/Lab administration did? The answer is "YES".
Are people convicted now serving longer sentences for these crimes? "YES".
Were the "poor vicitms" referred to by Mr Grey knifed by people released under the old Lib/Lab regime? "Doh - YES"
The FM might well be tired. Tired of an opposition (sic) that continues to "play politics" with people's lives.
Slainte Mhor
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#16 Jim,
I hope you are nowhere near a position of authority. I have given plenty of examples in the past where a mandatory sentance would be flawed.
I think that everyone here is opposed to knife crime, but we already have laws and sentances for that.
Would you jail someone for carrying a kitchen knife home from a shop?
When does a piece of metal become a knife? What about ceramic knives? Will you be jailed for carrying anything that is sharp? Half the kids in glasgow will then be jailed for their wit. What about skewers? Cork screws?
What about soemone who needs a knife for their job (eg a painter/decorator). Would you jail them if they nip to the shop and forget to take it out their pocket?
I despair when people come out with half baked ideas, and don't consider the workability or consequences. The really scary thing is that some of them are in positions of authority.
John
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16 Jim Stevens: We must have been watching two different FMQs.
By the way, Iain Gray has NEVER demolished Salmond. He just ain't got what it takes. Or do you think his performance on Newnight Scotland the other night, as the stuffing was being knocked out of him by Brewer, that my assertion is wrong?
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Hmmmm. I was so intrigued by some of the comments on here that suggested that Gray had given the First Minister a verbal thrashing over knife crime penalties that I decided to watch the recording of FM's questions.
In reality it would seem that Gray made an entirely fruitless attempt to bypass the parlimentary process by trying to get Alex Salmond to simply agree to accept the Justice Committee's support for mandatory prison sentences for carrying knives. Gray's naivety was of course quite properly rejected as it is down to the entire parliament to decide whether or not such an amendment should be accepted.
This is of course called "democracy" which admittedly is an unfamiliar concept to the Labour party but one which by now I think we would all have been hopeful that Labour MSPs might have embraced.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
So, SNP's minimum alcohol pricing = good thing (because responsible drinkers shouldn't mind paying a bit more to help stop problem drinking?). Non-SNP knife-jail policy = BAD thing (because why should the responsible majority be criminalized due to the problem minority?)
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As I understand it the law currently states that it is perfectly legal to carry a knife if the knife is a folding knife with the longest blade having a cutting edge not exceeding 3 inches (75 mm). Lock knifes are counted as fixed blades and are illegal.
It is also legal to carry larger knifes if you have a justifiable reason for having them, such as fishing or hunting. I think the change in the law only effects sentencing rather than possession. Any object, a pen for example, if wielded with intent to harm will be deemed an offensive weapon.
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And doesn't it only become illegal to carry a knife when it is to hand (i.e. not in a bag)? Seriously, there are some pretty daft objections here to a proposal that would be lauded as the best thing since sliced (not with a knife) bread if that demi-God Salmond had backed it ('Would you jail someone for carrying a kitchen knife home from a shop?' being my favourite).
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Tales of the Insurgency - Che Cleans Up in Glasgow
Day 3 and Che Salmond leads the insurgency to the Eastern precincts of the enemy capital, Glasgow, where he is rendezvousing with his local champion John Fidel Mason and a busload of journalists.
I can exclusively reveal that Che and Fidel met at the Harthill Services. Che was evidently aware that the potholes on the City’s mean streets could do more damage to a ministerial Mondeo than an IED, so the revolution would be moving ahead in Fidel’s car.
Concerned about his suspension, Fidel looked on nervously as Che bounded across the car park, jumped on the bonnet of his motor and proclaimed ‘Fire up the Hillman Imp, it’s time for Freeeeedom’ And off they went to the East End.
Once there, Che made his way along the grim streets surrounded by a cadre of enthusiastic insurgents, some as old as 15. I fear the insurgency will fare less well next week when the schools go back. The children of the revolution won’t be back at the weekend either when the teacher explains what a human shield actually is.
The highpoint of the exercise came when Che and Fidel ran into a shop, produced 2 bottles of green detergent and started cleaning the window. The enemies of the people from BBC Scotland were there and did indeed air this bold new guerrilla tactic on the Scottish news. However, the biased lickspittles failed to broadcast in full Che’s stirring oration to the masses of reporters and nationalist insurgents.
Waving his Green plastic bottles in the air, Che set a new road map for insurgent action. ‘Comrades, here are 1001 reasons for supporting the insurgency. If you tremble with indignation at every dirty surface then you are a comrade of mine. To accomplish much you must first clean everything. I would rather stand and mop than scrub on my knees. This will be a peaceful revolution, there will be no explosions, only Cillit Bangs. Toilet Duck will set the people free. Hands that do dishes…
I suddenly remembered another appointment. However, as I was leaving Fidel Mason was attempting to placate the cadre. There spokesperson was forthright. 'We’re not going canvassing in Shettleston wearing T shirts that have Fairy printed on the back.' Quite right!
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#34 Wee-Scamp,
I'm proud of your respect for representative democracy and for Parliamentary process. I trust you will be similarly supportive when the Referendum bill is voted on, regardless of the outcome.
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"[The General Election] is not an opinion poll."
Oh yes, it is.
It is a poll of voters' opinions as to which proffered candidate they consider best able to represent their respective constituencies (and constituents' interests) at Westminster.
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12. Denno
"Oh and conspiracy theories. Lots of conspiracy theories."
Here you go, lad. A nice conspiracy for you.
Hot Air Stifles Scotland
Hope that makes you feel a wee bit better.
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Cut to the elephant
Brian Taylor | 13:35 UK time, Thursday, 15 April 2010
So, if recent experience is any guide, we have until 1:35pm tomorrow (Friday 16 April 2010) - precisely - to post our comments!
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Jim Stevens:
#16.
"My view is that a mandatory jail term for knive carriers should be introduced and could be a vital part of the way forward. However, I fear that our prison capacity might call into question the feasibility of such an approach. The Scottish people need and deserve to hear the arguments!"
Carrying out punishments does not deal with the real reasons as to why one would choose to carry knives in the first place.
Then of course the policy would be irresponsible since our prison capacity would not be able to cope and we would have to consider the long-term effects of a generation with criminal records. If you make it impossible for people to turn their lives around, you will loose them forever.
"However, failing to answer simple questions and accusing the opposition of playing politics with the issue simply looked terrible on TV. Ian Gray was full of passion and articulated his case well. I've rarely seen the Labour backbenchers look so pleased and the SNP MSP's so glum. Everybody except Che himself could see that he was blowing it."
Iain Gray has not made the case at all. It all comes down to money and solutions and Gray has not mentioned how it would work. That IS playing politics with a sensitive issue. You can't call for a policy to be introduced that will no doubt cost millions and not mention how it will be paid for and expect to be taken seriously.
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#16. At 2:24pm on 15 Apr 2010, Jim Stevens wrote:
1 - “I watched First Ministers Questions and I'm still in shock. Ian Gray demolished Che Salmond. Gave him a right good kniving! Clearly the insurgency isn't going well”.
Where are you watching these FMQs? They are different from everyone else's versions.
2 - “My view is that a mandatory jail term for knive carriers should be introduced and could be a vital part of the way forward. However, I fear that our prison capacity might call into question the feasibility of such an approach. The Scottish people need and deserve to hear the arguments”!
Where have you been? We have all heard them before, and before, and before, and before and, … … ….
Thing is, (a), the average sentence under the Scottish Government's rule is greater by some way for actual knife crime, than that advocated by the Labour Party for only having a knife.. (b), Prison has actually become a school for knife crime offenders, latest figures show 9 out of 10 are re-offenders.
3 - “However, failing to answer simple questions and accusing the opposition of playing politics with the issue simply looked terrible on TV. Ian Gray was full of passion and articulated his case well. I've rarely seen the Labour backbenchers look so pleased and the SNP MSP's so glum. Everybody except Che himself could see that he was blowing it. Are now officially appointed as the official spokesperson for all the Scottish members".
So once more both you and the Gray Man are out of step with reality. At an estimated £80 Million to keep just the extra people, in the style to which they have become accustomed, convicted for only carrying a knife, (not the ones being done for actual knife crime, and who will, by the latest figures, become one of those 1 in 9 re-offenders. Seems like a poor bargain for the tax payer. Not only that but it is really, really, stupid to imprison people fopr carrying a knife. Unlike a gun, that has only one use, a knife is a very versatile tool. I run a small motor-home and I often camp in our wonderful Highland areas. My little penknife has been with me for around 60 years. It has done duty as an emergency tin opener, a screwdriver, a corkscrew, it's opened mussels, peeled spuds and chopped veggies. It's trimmed guy ropes, cut undoable knots in laces. Trimmed electric cables, cut Thick-Black baccy, opened cartons, peeled apples, oranges and removed stones from horse's hooves,(that one is an exageration). However, because we have a rather silly opposition at Holyrood thousands of innocent campers and others are being made into criminals for, Horror of Horrors, carrying perhaps the most versatile tool man has ever invented.
Haw! Polis! Come and get me noo - I'm a knife carrying crimminal, (Well according to Iain Gray I am).
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#36 denno
how about the difference between the consequences:
minimum pricing: responsible people MAY pay a bit more if they buy rot-gut alcohol.
Mandatory Jail: responsible people spend 6 months in jail and develop a complex about picking up soap bars.
something to do with proportion really.
John
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"Cut to the elephant"
I hope the cut wasn't with a knife - or someone would be looking at gaol time, if certain MSPs were to have their way.
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#18 wildjackamo wrote:
"If working in garden and I have a knife in my hand the police go past and see me do I then go to jail for 6 months please can you or anybody help."
You could always run inside and lock the doors. On the same line I work in a techy department where we need to give marking knoves out to the pupils for accurate marking out of woodwork joints. My acting boss at present is also a community policeman - you think you have problems - are school workshops public places? I DO NOT want to be locked up with my current 3rd years for 6 months - I don't even want to be in the same class for their craft period.
#21 oldnat
"I was gardening this morning - tying up some plants. When I nipped up to the shops, I realised that I still had my knife in my pocket.
Why do you think I should be sent to jail for 6 months?"
Sir, could you not have just sent the wife to the shops - or I hear that Tesco deliver? I also hear that samari's are very efficient at cutting the tails of your string when tying up plants - are they included in the 6 month deal?
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36. Denno
"So, SNP's minimum alcohol pricing = good thing (because responsible drinkers shouldn't mind paying a bit more to help stop problem drinking?). Non-SNP knife-jail policy = BAD thing (because why should the responsible majority be criminalized due to the problem minority?)"
If you actually knew anything about minimum unit pricing for alcohol then you would know that it does not affect "responsible drinkers".
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38. Denno
"And doesn't it only become illegal to carry a knife when it is to hand (i.e. not in a bag)? Seriously, there are some pretty daft objections here to a proposal that would be lauded as the best thing since sliced (not with a knife) bread if that demi-God Salmond had backed it ('Would you jail someone for carrying a kitchen knife home from a shop?' being my favourite)."
If it is such a wonderful idea, why are the police opposed to it?
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39. Jim Stevens
"Day 3 and Che Salmond..."
That got old very quickly.
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Ian Gray and Scottish Labour's major flaw is their hatred of the SNP. They just can't get past it.
It leads them to absolutely oppose pretty much everything the SNP propose. Their hatred allows them no room to manouevre.
This leads to them adopting many frankly ridiculous positions against every policy, just for the sake of opposing. Sometimes even when Labour in Westminster support the same policy (e.g. Minimum Pricing)
All the SNP has to do is keep picking common sense and popular policies and Labour, and especially Ian Gray, will continue to look daft.
e.g.
Freeze Council Tax - Labour: "Boo! Hiss!"
Sensible Knife Crime Policy - Labour: "Boo! Hiss!"
Remove Bridge Tolls - Labour: "Boo! Hiss!"
Cut Prescription Charges - Labour: "Boo! Hiss"
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Criminal probe in Purcell claims
Finally.
Maybe Labour should worry about the cleaning up the criminals in their OWN midst before they blither on about costing Scotland £80m and taking up 1,345 additional non-existent places in Scottish jails in mandatory jail sentences including for first-time knife carriers and taking the discretion in sentencing away from the sheriffs who enforce the laws.
Just maybe.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
No38 wrote: "...there are some pretty daft objections here to a proposal that would be lauded as the best thing since sliced (not with a knife) bread if that demi-God Salmond had backed it"
Read this carefully, the Bill has been through the Committee stage and now comes before the Scottish Parliament and will be discussed and debated by the full Parliament and then voted upon which is standard procedure for Bills. Mr Salmond CANNOT block the progress of the Bill NOR by-pass Parliament and Pass the Bill without allowing MSPs to debate it once it comes from the relevant Committee.
That is what he explained to Mr Gray who does not seem to understand the Parliamentary process and as a result continued to pursue something that had been asked and answered.
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#39 Jim
"I fear the insurgency will fare less well next week when the schools go back"
What do you mean the schools are not back?
Everywhere else in the country is back. Why is Glasgow different? The exams start in just over a week. Lent is over, easter is gone and there are no more eggs in the cupboard - get back to school and get studying.
Are these children not expected to revise for these exams? No wonder the pass rates for Glasgow are lower than they are for other more concientious areas.
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37. bloodofbarleycorn
"Any object, a pen for example, if wielded with intent to harm will be deemed an offensive weapon. "
Ah, so we can expect mandatory sentences for pen carrying as well, I take it. In the case of journalists from The Scotsman, it happens I concur.
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#40 bingowings87
Ah but ...! That's only the Parly and that is not sovereign in Scots law. I'm sure there'll be a touch of the Bruce's spider about and they'll get it to vote on again and again and again till there is one.
The question is, if they loose their referendum, once they've got it, to the will of the Scots people, how long will the Nats wait till they start asking for another?
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If anyone thinks Grey Gray could ever beat Che, this article might help illuminate why you can't necessarily believe what [you think] you see.
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Who knows if this is already mentioned in the 20 or so un-moderated posts above. If so apologies.
Now I didn't see FMQs today, so perhaps someone can help me out.
Did Mr Purcell or Glasgow City Council get a mention?
Only reason I ask, is that I see they're back in the news, on the BBC no less, so it may have been a topical matter to raise?
BBC Item Quote
"A police statement said: "Strathclyde Police can confirm that following assessment of information surrounding allegations of drug taking and other matters concerning Steven Purcell that a criminal investigation is now underway."
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And yes, let's do jail the criminals. A fine idea!
Labour PPC in Livingston reported to police
We need to rid our streets of this criminal element! Jail them, I say!
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#38 Denno
"'Would you jail someone for carrying a kitchen knife home from a shop?' being my favourite)."
And how would you legislate that out from the law? It is a knife, it's blade is likely to be fixed and longer than 3 inches. It will be sharp. Would you add a clause "they looked like they might use it"? If you say something stupid like it's wrapped in a bag, then you provide a get out of jail free card to anyone who really wants to carry a knife.
"And doesn't it only become illegal to carry a knife when it is to hand (i.e. not in a bag)?"
No, possession is the crime, that includes in a bag, even in your car. It does have to be accessible though.
John
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My 35 had a link to Alex Salmonds party political broadcast that is being shown on both BBC 1 and 2 tonight.
BBC now moderating what is on their own channels. Do the mods know what is actually on the BBC.
I was going to link to the Alex Salmond interview with John Sopel on the BBC election program, but the mods are probably banning BBC programs as well now so I wont bother.
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#36. At 4:18pm on 15 Apr 2010, Denno wrote:
1 - "So, SNP's minimum alcohol pricing = good thing (because responsible drinkers shouldn't mind paying a bit more to help stop problem drinking"?.
Err! No! The SNP has never said that - but you just did.
2 - As to the knife Crime thing. In the first place you have misrepresented the policy - In fact the SNP have increased both the number of knife crime offenders going to prison and increased the term they are kept in for. The reasons for not adopting the stupid Labour/Tory policy are many. Not least the simple fact that to jail someone for having the most versatile tool that man has ever invented is really, really stupid. Got it? Jail the real offenders but DO NOT criminalise innocent knife owners. Here are a few real facts for you. More guilty offenders are getting put away under the SNP rule than were getting put away under Labour rule. The times spent in prison by tried and found guilty offenders is longer under SNP rule than under Labour Rule. Then there is the fact that the latest figures prove that jail for knife crime does not really work - 9 out of ten knife crime offenders are re-offenders. Thus, prison is a proven school for knife crime. The estimated figures to accommodate the influx of people who have not used a knife for criminal reasons is £80 Million. Quite a bit to set up schools for learning how to do knife crime.
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#36: Denno -
By your logic - minimum pricing for alcohol = bad idea because it's supported by every relevant professional health organisation in Scotland but mandatory sentences for knife-carriers = good idea because it's opposed by police chiefs and ACPOS.
What a bizarre, topsy-turvey world you live in
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61. GrannieAnne
"We need to rid our streets of this criminal element! Jail them, I say!"
Well, all right. I must admit if they're first time offenders the sheriff might should have the right to make the decision if they should be jailed.
However, for politicians perhaps we should re-introduce public flogging when caught offending. Would Labour support this idea one wonders.
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58. handclapping
"The question is, if they loose their referendum, once they've got it, to the will of the Scots people, how long will the Nats wait till they start asking for another?"
Mr. Salmond has given his opinion on that matter numerous times.
I suspect you could find out the answer -- if you really wanted to. Go ahead. Give it a try. It's called basic research. You might even enjoy it.
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Does anyone know if the Lib Dem motion on fuel prices was passed this afternoon and, if so, who voted in favour?
The reason I ask is this, Eck Guevara (as we'll now call him) has been hard at work raising the issue of fuel prices (with specific reference to 'los madres', Scotland's highland and rural economy.) If the Lib Dems have joined him in condemning Labour's campaign to drive up fuel prices then this is an interesting and welcome example of cross-party
co-operation during an election campaign. A rare and significant thing, in my opinion.
Worthy of comment, I'd have thought. A sign that the Lib-Dems are starting to see their (immediate) future as being more closely allied with the SNP than Labour? Possibly but probably not.
Either way, though, fuel prices make an excellent stick for both parties to use in beating Ian 'Batista' Gray. We'll hear more of this, I feel, and it won't make comfortable listening for Labour.
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I share your vexation, Brian. The question of Labour's quasi-mandatory prison policy for knife carrying even makes an appearance in the tartan-edged version of Labour's general election manifesto. That said it is probably better to think of the policy in terms of installing a presumption in favour of prison sentence of six months. As the legislative section proposed makes clear, discretion remains with the sheriff, so it isn't exactly a hard mandatory. Heaven knows how it would work in practice. And those divine overseers aren't bending the ear of Richard Baker either.
On the SNP strategy on knife crime, avoidance seems to be the keynote. Trust that the subject remains technical, lawyerly, and thus - infinitely obscure. Perhaps reasoning that although many random members of the public may be willing, with a cheap breath, to support minimum sentences for knife crime - most won't look too keenly into it. I'm not convinced that this will work. Moreover, there is a principled reason why we should avoid giving into the lazy, cheap and vacuous arguments which have been adduced by Labour for this policy. They've singularly refused to discuss prison's problems, the clear figures showing the recidivism that hotly pursued short term prison sentences - not to mention all the better things we could be spending the proposed money on in this time of belt tightening. Thankfully, given the balance in parliament, the mandatory prison policy will come to nought - a populist, unaffordable wheeze cheaply (and I suspect in some quarters, rather disingenuously) proposed by a party grubbing about for votes using the old rhetoric of ignorance and fear.
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#56, highandarab wrote:
"Everywhere else in the country is back. Why is Glasgow different?"
Not so in Angus, either.
'Easter' holidays began only at tne ehd of Good Friday! (Last year, children in the area returned to school, following two weeks off, on Easter Monday!)
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#52 Why do you Nats keep bleeting on about the freeze in council tax being so wonderful. It is one of the worst thought through ideas of all time; nothing more than a political stunt. No wonder councils are going bust, the SNP has robbed them of their main method of raising funds for local services... SNP the party of Scotland - Yeah right!
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I hope the esteemed Mr Taylor didn't eat all of those Arbroath Smokies himself (RS, 6:43pm), or the blog might have to become 'Baloon with Brian'.
I'm feeling decidedly peckish now....
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All this debate about knife carrying can be stopped by simple facts. In May the figures revealed that 9 out of 10 offenders in prison for knife crime were recidivists. Thus by throwing people, WHO HAVE NOT USED a knife for a criminal purpos, who have been found with one in their possesion into prison to serve a compulsory term will also become a recidavist.
(and at a cost to the tax payer of around £80 million). Having spoken to some youngsters I came to the conclusion they felt they needed protection from the real criminal knife users. To my mind the right way to deal with this is to have more police on our streets. Now what political party has that as their policy, (and have now reached their target of officers recruited)?
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56. At 5:24pm on 15 Apr 2010, highlandarab wrote:
What do you mean the schools are not back?
A few years ago Glasgow decided to ignore the Hebrew Lunisolar calendar based date for the spring festivities and always takes the first two weeks in April. If the Christian holiday falls outwith this we get a day for that too.
Hence I was able to spend a happy morning in the garden cleaning a Brompton, greasing a front hub and replacing the chain and sprockets. It runs very nicely now. I cleaned a lubed a trio of three speed hubs earlier in the holidays.
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Ohhh... and while I was cleaning and mending said bits of bike I made use of a Swiss Army Knife, Victorinox Explorer model, which I carry at all times. I usually have some allen keys, a Bahco adjustable spanner and tyre levers about my person too.
Way to go Scottish Labour, out law the kit I carry for my environmentally friendly mode of transport.
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58. handclapping
"The question is, if they loose their referendum, once they've got it, to the will of the Scots people, how long will the Nats wait till they start asking for another?"
Why should they wait any time at all? If something is worth campaigning for then it is worth continuing to campaign for whatever the setbacks. If the SNP had not kept up the pressure we would not have our parliament reconvened. If those opposed to slavery and child labour had given up at the first hurdle where would we be?
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#40. bingowings87
"I'm proud of your respect for representative democracy and for Parliamentary process. I trust you will be similarly supportive when the Referendum bill is voted on, regardless of the outcome.
Difficult question because of course if the referendum bill is defeated then that in itself would be anti-democratic.
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68. Bandages_For_Konjic
"
The reason I ask is this, Eck Guevara (as we'll now call him)..."
I rather doubt that we will.
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my #54 comment
Can somebody tell me what happens now that someone has made a complaint about a response I made to one of Jim Steven's postings.
I wasn't aware that I was being unusually touchy but I was concerned about the use of school age children to help aid the SNP campaign which was witnessed by Jim.
I also wondered about the consequences of the use of children upon the local Education Committee and their education policy.
Do I now get an email and a telling off, or is this debated at moderator level and then the post released if found not too unappropriate? I tried reading through the 'explain' bit but it didn't make much sense to me if the moderators were not the initial ones who were upset with the post.
I've already had one email from the moderators today so things are not going particularly well and I would like to clear my name if possible.
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Genuine congrats to Brian for his Reporting Scotland slot tonight. Far from being pedantic, its actually the first time in this campaign that any local political commentator or journo has pointed out the EXPLICIT distinction that exists between devolved and UK matters. It needed saying - and it was horrifying to see a few random punters in Arbroath not have any clue as to what the heck the difference was.
It suits Labour and the Tories in particular to fudge matters as they've been doing since the election campaign began. That shows utter contempt for voters, although coming from these 2 parties thats par for the course.
Again, well done Brian.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
70. Miss Terri Poster
'Easter' holidays began only at tne ehd of Good Friday!
And
74. Wee Folding Bike wrote:
A few years ago Glasgow decided to ignore the Hebrew Lunisolar calendar based date for the spring festivities and always takes the first two weeks in April. If the Christian holiday falls outwith this we get a day for that too.
Hence I was able to spend a happy morning in the garden cleaning a Brompton, greasing a front hub and replacing the chain and sprockets. It runs very nicely now. I cleaned a lubed a trio of three speed hubs earlier in the holidays.
I am shocked.
We went back last Monday.
The S4 are only back for 2 weeks of revision before study leave.
The first exam is on Wed 28 April
You must only have them for 6 or 7 days revision.
Gee. Hope they have lots of homework to keep them going.
Good luck if you are secondary and getting them ready for the NQ exams.
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What was the comment on Nicola Sturgeon from the BBC reporter all about when he said she was, "On subject but off target?" Was it meant to be a subliminal, vote changing, remark?
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highlandarab,
Yes, I teach biology in secondary, we expected to have two weeks but it turns out we only have about a week. I will get a second prelim done and that's about it. The SQA don't accept pre Christmas ones anymore. I have finished everything for SG, Int 1 and Int 2 but a little more time would have been nice. There is a big gap before the biology paper so I hope some of them will come in for help.
I'll be marking the Int 1 which has to be scanned so I will not start that till mid June.
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#80. It has been said many times, here and elsewhere, that the majority of Scots are unaware of devolved issues. The London parties play on this. In this context, it should always be remembered that we (the political bloggers) form a minute percentage of the Scottish voting population. Ian Gray is not as simple as many think. His 'outrageous' statements (previously briefed and adhered too despite any retort to the contrary - today's knife challenge to Alex Salmond is typical) is a calculated soundbite to be gobbled up by the 'meedja' and subsequently spewed out to those less inclined to politics.
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Very strange. My posting on the volcanic cloud made it on Andrew Neil's blog but not on this one. A bit of inconsistency there!
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#71. At 6:45pm on 15 Apr 2010, deducted4points wrote:"No wonder councils are going bust, the SNP has robbed them of their main method of raising funds for local services... SNP the party of Scotland - Yeah right"!
Aye! Richt! Perhaps, though, there are other, more pertinent, things tending to make some councils go bust. Like, for example, the Glasgow councillors who were fiddling, "allededly", their expenses. Like the, very large, salery increases that certain top executives were, "allededly", awarding themselves while cutting wages of the lowest paid council workers and cutting the services to the poorest and most vulnerable members of society under the guise that they were being kept short of funding.
The following was an item in a national newspaper in February,"Pay awards for council executives on six-figure salaries have rocketed an average of 15 per cent in two years - but they still want more. The disclosure comes as tens of thousands of public sector workers face the dole, council taxes soar and public services face cuts".
Plainly as long as these councils can still be so profligate with the money they demand from the people they were elected/employed to serve there is much room for making savings where they will do no harm whatsoever to the poeople who pay the piper. Perhaps, under a decent Scottish Government those piper payers might just have a chance, at long last, to call a better tune.
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#84 Wee Folding Bike
"The SQA don't accept pre Christmas ones [prelims] anymore."
Ooohhh!!!! we havn't been told that one yet.
Eeeekkkkk!!!!!!! Our Graphics and Product Design should be OK but our Craft and Design might be a bit of a problem then.
Our Higher Graphics do 2 part prelims with the second one due a week Monday but at least they have a couple weeks more before than S4 before the study leave starts.
My concerm is that our exams are always at the rear end of the timetable and 4 or 5 weeks of inactivity tends to loose them the speed and a bit of knowledge before the exam starts.
We leave a room available for the seniors in the dept and they bring in tea, coffee and bickies and just take over. Works quite well and you always get a 'good' mention in the S6 year book for your 'caring attitude' (as well as an occasional broken bickie if your lucky).
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86. hamish42
I presume you mean consistency as in
"Degree of density, firmness, or viscosity: beat the mixture to the consistency of soft butter."
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Delicious irony of Paddy Ashdown saying that there is a conspiracy of the 2 main parties to exclude the LDs!
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Two Minutes from Alex Salmond
Or will Blither with Brian ALSO try to silence the First Minister of Scotland?
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Robin Lustig is on the World Tonight right now covering the "Englandshire" debate and his current blog topic is Afghanistan, Kyrgyzstan -- and the election, including "we'll be mounting the first of three special programmes on Radio 4 to bring you live coverage of the Prime Ministerial debates. We'll be on air from 8pm with commentary and analysis from experts and politicians - we'll broadcast the debate in its entirety, and then once it's over, Ritula will get live reaction from a panel of voters in a marginal constituency, and I'll chew over who said what and why with our studio guests".
Might be a good spot to discuss progress if anyone else here will be watching or listening, and it should be easy to stay on topic.
On THIS topic, for JS to say "I watched First Ministers Questions and I'm still in shock. Ian Gray demolished Che Salmond." he must either find Balamory too exciting to bear or have been watching a different FMQs to the one I watched live on holyrood.tv this lunchtime (uninterrupted but without benefit of Brian and Ms Hjul's better half). To check I hadn't nodded off during dour Iain's peroration, I double checked to be sure on this website's DEMOCRACY LIVE FMQs and it was the FM who emerged both unruffled and, perhaps more surprisingly, awake from Iain's ire.
I am encouraged to see that my fellow posters have resisted the urge to refer JS's "Gave him a right good kniving!". Scurrilous in the extreme but best left alone as a shining example of the quality of his muse.
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71. deducted4points
"Why do you Nats keep bleeting on about the freeze in council tax being so wonderful."
Raising taxes is certainly one of the thing that the Labservatives do best so I can see why you'd object.
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"Still, back to the elephant: the General Election. The hovering beast made its presence felt."
Indeed, Brian. The elephant. Bit of a mammoth in fact. I feel very stongly the presence of the beast. A three headed behemoth that will be strutting on the national airwaves this very evening. I however shall not be watching this spectacle, as it will be of utterly no relevance to me in Scotland. None of the political parties that I might choose to give my support to are being represented. One could say they have been silenced. I thought we lived in a democracy, but it seems not. The rules seem to be that you have to rule in another country before you are good enough to rule in Scotland.
"It is not an opinion poll"
I have a feeling it may well be an opinion poll. The people of Scotlands opinion poll on being told we are "irrelevant" by the Westminster parties. The Westminster parties who have dishonoured themselves and the democracy of this country. I think they may be in for a shock.
"It is an offer to elect representatives who will cast their votes on our behalf on issues that come before the House of Commons."
Given the lack of influence of the few Scottish MPs in Westminster, I will settle for a strong Scottish presence in the House of Commons.
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#87... Auld Bob "The disclosure comes as tens of thousands of public sector workers face the dole, council taxes soar and public services face cuts"
... council taxes soar??? I thought the SNP had frozen them... you are using a tactic that is often employed on this board, ignore what is said and make stuff up.
The SNP froze council tax and in doing that deprived councils of a key method of raising funds for local services. I'm sorry to dissapoint you but whatever local politicians were up to (... I agree with you on one thing, anyone fiddling expenses should be sacked) that hasn't cost anywhere near as much as the Freeze in council tax has cost the councils.
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I tried to listen to it... and lasted for less than two minutes. Where was a single voice speaking for me or mine?
Not there. And then Cameron had the gall to say he wanted to restore trust in the system after having said that anyone who voted for the Scottish government was irrelevant.
None of the above. Thank you.
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highlandarab,
A second prelim has been the position in biology for a number of years. The companies who supply them actually send us a second one in the same package.
Alex only had two minutes but they were worth every second. I'm a wee bit put out that there isn't an MPEG version on the SNP web page for me to download. I'll look for one later. Makes you see why he isn't given more air time.
I'm expecting "Dancing Jim" Murphy to blame the SNP and Iceland for the aeroplane problems today.
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Live text commentary on the 1st election debate/travesty of democracy at Brigadoon! Spur of the moment thing, so hopefully this clears the mods in time for some of you to drop in!
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Watched reporting North Britain and was dismayed to see poor Sally Magnusson (barely recovered from breaking the news to Scots that her native Iceland was apparently responsible for the arc of insolvency) forced to report for duty again and this time admit that they had now discharged a cloud of dangerous volcanic dust into our airspace.
Could the poor woman not be excused from the Icelandic bad news stories?
Channel 4 News weren't much kinder to their female reporters sending a serious looking Sarah Smith ( daughter of the late Labour leader John Smith) to interview the First Eck. She didn't look a happy bunny with that gig but valiantly wore a red coat and emphasised throughout the piece how the SNP were struggling, a minority etc. In fact she even seemed a tad sneery about "the little Scottish flags" they were handing out.
I suppose tomorrow night Carol Thatcher, wearing a nice blue coat, will do a short political report and interview with Gordon Brown and emphasise what he's up against, just for balance you understand.
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GrannieAnne re your 91
That is the link that I had at 35 which was moderated.
The big question for the mods on here, why is a post moderated at 4.16pm then the same link is ok at 8.24pm?
Do the BBC have a clue, or do the mods have a clue?
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Politics on TV tonight - wholly irrelevant to Scotland, but I'm enjoying watching it for all that.
More4 - Jon Stewart's Daily Show.
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#93 ... and your point is? As I've said already... No wonder councils are going bust, the SNP has robbed them of their main method of raising funds for local services.
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102. deducted4points
"No wonder councils are going bust, the SNP has robbed them of their main method of raising funds for local services."
Och! The horror of not raising taxes! How dare the SNP leave money in people's own pockets. Outrageous.
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Brian
It is an offer to elect representatives who will cast their votes on our behalf on issues that come before the House of Commons.
For Scotland, those issues are reserved matters, not devolved. The broad economy, not health. Defence, not education. Welfare, not policing.
You're surely not voicing a smidgeon of irritation at the way the "3 main parties" treat our Scottish politics?
After all they do have a point in that their MPs for Scottish constituencies vote on matters of English health, English education and English policing, so of course the SNP with their self denying ordinance are irrelevant in this election to the English Parliament.
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#102 deducted4points
No wonder councils are going bust,
As I have not heard even Chinese whispers of the above "fact", would you care to let us in on which ones and how close they are to this bust which Gordon assured us he had abolished?
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Since losing connection till now it looks like open revolt against the three main parties has/is growing. Better go and read the thread and posts before democracy kicks in!
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16. Jim Stevens
Are you on the same as Purcell?
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102. deducted4points
"#93 ... and your point is? As I've said already... No wonder councils are going bust, the SNP has robbed them of their main method of raising funds for local services."
Don't talk nonsense. The council tax freeze was implemented in full consultation and cooperation with the councils.
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@102
Simply incorrect. Council Tax forms a minor element if overall LA funding package. So a percentage cut in other majority funding requires a larger percentage rise in council tax to compensate. This coupled to the regressive, non income/earnings related nature of the tax makes it highly regressive. LIT offers a progressive solution but is sadly blocked by labservatives in Holyrood.
(of course you may be refering to that income raised directly by councils however that does not change the nature of this tax)
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39. Jim Stevens
Obvious Troll
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
98. forfar-loon
Often drop past to read your prose and have a wry smile with your humour.
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Iceland's revenge
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Election 2010: Who will clean up Glasgow politics?
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#102. At 9:24pm on 15 Apr 2010, deducted4points wrote: "No wonder councils are going bust, the SNP has robbed them of their main method of raising funds for local services".
Aye! Richt! Yet those same councils are going bust while continuing to pay a bunch of paid, "Executives", between £100,000 and £160,000 plus great expenses. They also pay expenses out of all proportion to the councillors, including foreign trips. They waste more money than they use and are far too generous to themselves with tax payers council tax. There is not a single council in Scotland that can, hand on heart, say they could not make reasonable economies by the truckload. I watched a neighbour getting a routine visit from the local services office. First off all there were two office staff attending, they each came from the same office in a different car. That office is in the village Main Street, where I go to get my pension. Now I have multipul disabilities but I hobble up to Main Street. Yet those two young ladies each came by a different car. Now this is the same council who cannot afford to extend the street cleaners route 100 mts to clean the footpath outside our homes. Strange we pay the same council tax as those who get their footpaths swept.
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114. cynicalHighlander
Warning! Mods don't like the SNP full stop.
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#89 Oldnat wrote "Degree of density, firmness, or viscosity: beat the mixture to the consistency of soft butter."
Their inconsistency is certainly of the high viscosity type judging by the velocity of turnround on this blog. Also, plenty of turbidity but a distinct lack of loquacity and largesse.
Plenty of 'toodle ooh the noo' though. That makes all the difference.
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#104. At 9:36pm on 15 Apr 2010, handclapping wrote:
"After all they do have a point in that their MPs for Scottish constituencies vote on matters of English health, English education and English policing, so of course the SNP with their self denying ordinance are irrelevant in this election to the English Parliament".
Strange that when those same Scots contribute to those English matters as ONLY England is funded as, "The UK", and that means the UK MPs from Scotland swear an oath to deal with those UK matters. If England wants her domestic matters exclusive to England then they should get a Block Grant and a parliament to deal with English matters. Until they do so there are NO English ONLY matters - ONLY UK ones.
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I have come to the conclusion that the debates were not intended to produce any heat and light, but only there to serve the needs of the broadcasters, to make them look important and get their viewing figures up.
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Now I'm off to hear Newsnichts team of eminent commentators, including Alf Young no doubt. I Bet he puts Gordon Brown first.
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Have had 2 referrals in the past day so I am treading wearily here.
However, for what it's worth.
So, just finished watching the debate about the English part of the election. Glad to see that the questions which were a waste of time for us were at least admitted to as such, although I wonder if any one south of here understood what it meant that the next part was devolved to the other nations - I suspect the feeling might be that 'we tell you what to do and you have your own paliament to carry it out'. Certainly, even after the presenter telling everyone it was a devolved matter a couple of the questioners still seemed to think that they were asking questions for Britain. Gordon even answered a couple of the devolved questions as solutions for Britain. If he's confused, no wonder the audience were also confused. Anyway.
First reactions.
Financial - GB stated that the rise in NI contributions would go directly to improve and help the education, health and policing in England. So what do I get for my extra 1 percent?
Weapons - thought the lib dem guy missed a trick when saying he would scrap the new zillion pound weapons system. Both of the others jumped up and down suggesting that this meant he wanted it totally scrapped, but I had a feeling he may have had a middle stage thought out of new weapons on the existing launchers rather than an all new super douper complete system. He didn't come back on that - or was not allowed to come back on it? - and so it looked as though he didn't quite get to finish his point.
Overall - Far too much interupting and argueing when it was someone elses turn - particularly from GB, who if he did it in class would find himself sitting in isolation so that the others could get on with their work.
All of them were at it a wee bit but Gordon seemed to be muttering more than the other two and was frequently loathe to shut up at the end of his alloted time or butted in before his new time started.
That to me is rude, or maybe someone who needs to be in control and thought it was slipping away from him, and that needs to be addressed if he is to come across as mature and someone able to listen to other points of view while arguing his own corner.
Vote winner? - Mmmmmm Nah! Thought Lib Dem came across OK and Tories came across OK but not really impressed with Gordon. Thought it looked like the Lib Dems and Labour would like to work together to gang up on the Tories (and I suspect Gordon may need to help). Still think Alex would do the best for me and the bottom line for most folk is - what's in it for me - don't care about you - what do I get. Still has to be Alex
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Lorraine Davidson on Newsnicht
"Gordon Brown has to appear more normal"!
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Posting:
#39 Jim Steven
"Once there, Che made his way along the grim streets surrounded by a cadre of enthusiastic insurgents, some as old as 15."
"The children of the revolution won’t be back at the weekend either when the teacher explains what a human shield actually is."
I tried to answer this before (#54) but I have been reported for being defamatory, so one more attempt.
Jim
Is there an implication here that the children were running behind/in front/beside the car in gleeful play, or are you suggesting that the SNP were hiring these children to act as supporters in this way?
Is there an implication that the car was being driven in an inappropriate manner and likely to injure the children?
Are you suggesting that all of streets in Glasgow are ‘grim’ or is it just the select few that the Hillman Imp travelled along?
As to your ascertain that the pupils were being used as a human shield, are you really sure about this? Do you think that the first minister of our nation would use children in this particular way?
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Good.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/8623167.stm
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Hootsmon front page
The debate "Brown takes fight to Cameron" (or similar). The paper is becoming an embarrassment - Daily Mirror Mk II.
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123. highlandarab
Do you not recognise a party hack when it's sticking to the sole of your shoe?
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<RICHPOST><a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/briantaylor/2010/04/cut_to_the_elephant.html#P94965775">122. oldnat</a><BR /><BR />[Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]Like this!</a> </RICHPOST>
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#126. Electric Hermit
Do you not recognise a party hack when it's sticking to the sole of your shoe?
Oh aye! but at least if he is entertaining me he is too busy to be going round the doors in his couple of days at home trying to gain votes, or taking all the money out of our economy by wiping out the bookies with all the winnings.
I am assuming that he referred me but there is no way I know for sure. If it was then I am counting that as 1-0 to me. I could take the drivel and did not give up first.
Interesting though that after his party have been in power for so long he still thinks the streets of Glasgow are grim - maybe his party neglected the dear green place more than my party.
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A word in edgeways from a chap who was not allowed to speak in the debate. First Minister Salmond has said the first Leaders' Debate of the 2010 UK General Election proved why Scotland needs SNP champions:
"All the debate confirmed was that the London parties plan deep cuts to Scotland’s budget and public services. That’s why Scotland needs local and national champions in the House of Commons to break through this cosy Westminster consensus and win a better deal for Scotland. Over half the debate should have been captioned ‘Except for viewers in Scotland’.
It was billed as a historic event but all we got was three Westminster politicians looking the same, sounding the same and saying nothing of relevance to Scotland. From Wick to Whitburn, viewers would be turned off by television which simply didn’t address the issues which matter to them."
A very English debate in a very English election.
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"Gordon Brown has to appear more normal."
I think I know what Lorraine means, but in her previous advisory capacity she wouldn't have said it to his face. "You will have to appear more normal Gordon".
She must be referring to his beguiling smile. His comment to Cameron thanking him for his posters portaying him as a smiling prime minister was a bit obtuse for most people I would have thought. Especially as he smiled while he said it.
I was wrong about Alf Young being on Newsnicht (thank God). We had a set of nearly-new faces instead.
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128. highlandarab
"Interesting though that after his party have been in power for so long he still thinks the streets of Glasgow are grim - maybe his party neglected the dear green place more than my party."
I suspect he will find a way to blame Alex Salmond.
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122. oldnat
The mods dont like humour #127
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On the 'elephant' theme, picking up on Brian's closed 'Going in to insurgent mode', the point is that the cuts the Westminster parties want to execute are without consent of the people of Scotland, not decided by the government in Scotland but the government in Westminster - they are cuts imposed without any influence of the views of the people of Scotland. (As, to Westminster, they are 'us' and we are 'them'.)
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Revisiting a tory poster from a previous, and some reported tory concerns about the SNP being too much a party of big govt., and this being off putting for independence when these tories are not opposed to independence itself, I think they've got the horse before the cart. (Is it perhaps the last clutches of the need for power, that they are in favour of independence, but only if it's the way that they want it after?)
Because it's only the independence bus that can travel to the stop where they want to get off, a tory voice in Scotland. The other parties' routes stop before independence, and won't go there. So we must get on with the SNP, and travel to independence, where after will be a forum for all the parties in Scotland. The tories can make their case then. It cannot be supposed, as they assume, that the SNP would automatically be responsible for formulating a new Scotland, or even remain in power.
So actually that obstacle to influence is the only thing that will provide it, for all our parties. We will need the tories as well as others because a balance of political parties will be much healthier for Scotland.
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134. eye_write
Oops, cart before the horse. Shouldn't have mixed my transport metaphors there ;-)
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Having watched the debate last night I was surprised how well Nick Clegg came over. Accepting that most of the debate had nothing to do with Scotland I still found it interesting in the respect that one of them is likely to be the Prime Minister of the UK. The one who is least likely, Nick Clegg, seemed, to me, to have won the debate hands down. He came over as an honest man trying to tell the nation that the other two were avoiding telling us the truth over the impending cuts. In this respect he was correct. However, Nick Clegg had an easy ride as both David Cameron and Gordon Brown knew that, in a balanced parliament, Nick Clegg would more than likely be the kingmaker; especially Gordon Brown. I would have to offer that I found Gordon Brown's attempt to bring Nick over to his side a touch embarrassing and, to be honest with you, I suspect Nick found it slightly embarrassing too; especially when he tried to place clear blue water between his party and the other two's.
On the whole, if you ignore the irrelevance of the debate to the people of Scotland, I thought that Nick Clegg came over the best, David Cameron a feeble second and Gordon Brown...well, he came over as Gordon Brown.
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Sort of illustrates the point I made at #85
http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/scotland/SNP-39backs-criminals39-on-knives.6231699.jp
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136 GedGuy
The Liberals often have a "trusted communicator" at the helm. In turn, almost all have high acceptability ratings.
Sometimes that is because - like Jo Grimond or Charles Kennedy - they really do have talent.
Sadly for the Champion Fence-sitters, Nick Clegg would struggle in a more real political cauldron. David Steel was a more able politician by far - but he got chewed up and spat out by New Labour's (sorry the Social Democrats) Lord Owen, Shirley etc.
Nick Clegg - nice wee boy, mega-rich, posh education, bit wet, my Granny likes him - err - that's about it really. Take out the "mega" - and you could be describing Tavish or Nicol???
Quite ridiculous to give the Liberals this kind of propaganda coup IMHO.
Slainte Mhor
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Q. If you pulled up to a garage and one of the UK party leaders was there, what would you see? A. Nick Clegg would be filling his car with Super Unleaded and buying a sneaky packet of Silk Cut. David Cameron would be sitting in the back of his car, waiting for someone else to fill it up for him. And Gordon Brown would be standing on the forecourt, shouting at his car; telling it, if the Tories got in, they'd abolish petrol.
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For a debate that was supposed to have been of no interest to those of you on this blog with SNP leanings, you are making an awful lot of comments about it.
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140 D4P
That's because we are angry - and we are many.
Slainte Mhor
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#140 deducted4points :
"For a debate that was supposed to have been of no interest to those of you on this blog with SNP leanings, you are making an awful lot of comments about it."
You are still allowed to comment on it surely.
If Liverpool play Everton at prime time on my tele I would watch and pass comment the next day in work about the game, but I have no interest in any of the teams or the league they play in.
At least if Liverpool and Everton play it does not have any effect on my life who wins.
Gordon stated clearly that the extra 1% of my salary he intends to impound is to be used solely for proping up the schools, health and police services he has control over.
Does that not take that money out of the economy where I live and make me and the other citizens beside me poorer?
The 2 'big' partys also insist that they still want Glasgow to be the target of a nuclear attack because they are still adament that they want to spend all the tax payers money on replacing Trident. If Iran or Korea or any other states want to attack us with their own nuclear weapons (when and if developed) Glasgow will be the target.
As an SNP supporter maybe I would like them to 'change the target' to another location - they both live in London - there is one option / the debate was in Manchester - a second option.
Changing the location would at least give me an extra few seconds to kiss my deriere goodbye before the plume of radiation hit me. My egg might have time to be boiled and eaten.
Of course the 3rd option would be to talk to the other side and come to an agreement that if they needed to fight each other, conventional shooting at each other might be preferable.
However, I wonder if this is what they had in mind for 'domestic issues' when they planned the format of the shows.
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Three-handed 'debates' don't work.
After the GE, either Gordon Brown will remain as PM or Call Me Dave will be moving into No.10
The LibDems are as irrelevant as UKIP - another party standing in sufficient number of constituencies to achieve an overall majority if all were elected!
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As far as Scotland is concerned the Liberal Democrats are an utterly pointless party. We have 3 rule from London parties and one Scottish party when the Lib Dems were in power they did what ever Labour wanted them to do without question. They're still doing it with backing Glasgow Labour in dodging an investigation into Purcell. The only major policy difference they have is supposedly federalism which they don't pursue. If they did they would be wholely behind more powers for the parliament at all costs rather than helping block any transfer of powers. In Tavish Scott they have the ultimate Labour sycophant and no man to anything Scottish or SNP.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
I didn't watch the debate, ever-mindful of Nixon-Kennedy. I listened to it on Radio 4. I thought that Brown came across as wooden and scripted and kept falling back to lists and lists and lists of NuLab "Achievements".
What was worrying was that I couldn't tell the difference without really concentrating between Clegg and Cameron. They both made good points that had they followed up on a bit more aggressively would have had Brown Reeling - in particular on HoL and Electoral Reform and the fact that NuLab has been in power for 13 years and have had plenty chance to enact all of the "radical changes" that Brown talked about
I did also think that Clegg came across a bit Sarah Palinish as well..."These Two", "The Old Parties" = "Well, there ya go again".
Clear Win for Clegg. Does it Matter ?
Cameron didn't screw it up. That Matters.
Brown sounded an old and tired leader of an old and tired party having his strings pulled from behind with his scripted and "zingy" one-liners. Time that the electorate let him spend more time with the family.
Alistair Stewart was a joke as a moderator.
HOWEVER, Most of the debate was A Complete Irrelevance to Scotland. Other than pointing out to the subjects of the Empire in Northern Britain that whoever gets the keys to Number 10, Scotland's Budget will be savagely cut.
That can only drive us further towards our self-determination and Independence.
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Modding time on NR Newslog: Currently 3 minutes from Posting
Modding time on BwB ? Well, as Scotland only forms under 1/10th of the United Kingdom, will it be then times as long ?
I think we should be told. Or is Scotland as much of an irrelevance to the BBC as the "Leader's Debates" are to Scotland ?
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Some observations from the debate.
Nick Clegg looked good, but he got an easy ride. Neither of the other two really attacking him, as they both want to be his friend (particularly Brown) and have him join them in attacking the other. Tories hate Labour, Labour hate Tories, Both habitually ignore LibDems. They may need to re-think that in the next debate.
Cameron was ultra cautious. Leading in the polls he had most to lose, and it showed. Also domestic policies is the Tories weakest spot. With a debate agenda largely about Schools, Hospitals and Police, and a party who instinctively like small government and reduced public spending, his message on these topics is never going to be popular.
Brown is just not suited to this. He was right to agree to debates, as the polls for months have shown he has nothing to lose. However he should have insisted they were on radio! He's also just too boring and insicere. Rattling off statistics is just a turn-off. He was also largely responsible for Clegg's victory, by agreeing with him at every opportunity. Made Clegg look good and Brown look weak.
Salmond's Party Political Broadcast was excellent. Hit the right spot at the right time for a Scottish audience that was excluded from the Manchester debate. The whole SNP election theme gains credibility the longer the other parties campaign goes on. Scotland being ignored, sidelined and lacking a voice - with the SNP the obvious remedy. It's got an increasing ring of truth to it.
And for Deducted4Points:
People on this blog are into politics. Of course they are going to watch the debates, and they are also going to comment. Many will complain about the partiality shown by excluding the SNP, and rightly so, but they'll still watch, assess and comment. It is, in my opinion, rather childish to suggest they should not.
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Vakov #144
Tavish really is in an awkward spot, and cannot sit there much longer.
One the one hand, in a party committed to Federalism and therefore increased Scottish autonomy up to the point of Dev Max.
On the other hand, on the record as opposed to doing anything that may lead to the break up of the Union, and as such scared to give an inch when the SNP may take a mile.
Add in that the Lib Dems are fans of referenda for constitutional reform in general, while at the same time stonewalling a referendum on increased Scottish autonomy, and he's in a very uncomfortable place.
Confused? You must be if you're a Scottish Lib Dem voter.
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Well well well.
Sense prevails in Glasgow at last, Times in Scotland reporting start of the criminal investigation into the Glasgow saga.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/scotland/article7099014.ece
If you were reading the Scottish Media (including the BBC) you would think this wasn't happening....maybe suits some people that way but not me. If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck and looks like a duck, its probably a duck.......sleaze is sleaze in whatever form and once again Labour are looking like the Tories at the end of their reign last time round. Let's hope Strathclyde's finest can negotiate the PR, Lawyers and political minefield and get to the hearth of the matter at the heart of Glasgow !
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Just decided to join after reading Blether with Brian for the past few days.
I'm clearly not the only one who thinks that there are certain elements in the media intent on Stifling debate in Scotland.
I'm not political but i have donated to the revolution campaign fund.
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#138 spagan
Your reference to Jo Grimond reminds me of an occasion in the 1980s when I heard him address an audience after he had declined into his "dotage", as he put it, and had been sent to the House of Dotards to give him something to do now that his political career was over, a career in the course of which "I did not take full advantage of my opportunities."
"I did not take full advantage of my opportunities." That is what I take to be Lord Grimond's view of his political career in a nutshell. Such a waste. At least that cannot be said of the First Eck, who seems to me to be the prime example in the UK of a politician taking full advantage not only of his own opportunities but of everybody else's as well. He will go far, but not to the House of Dotards, I suspect.
Will Mr Clegg take full advantage of his own opportunities, which now appear to be spread out before him for the taking? This will be interesting to watch, and I look forward to the results of the UK general election for that reason.
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So, the media are already saying these debates must take place before every election. The concrete is set and the unfairness of the whole scam has been institutionalised.
Once again Scotland's interests have been marginalised. It's time Scotland was out of this dishonest, manipulatory Union.
It was noticeable that ITV gave the wrong date for the Scottish debate then they had to correct it and why was Brown speaking about what he would do for the NHS in the UK?
Has Salmond's appeal to the BBC Trust just been ignored? When is the rug going to be drawn from under the BBC.
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As always, Rab's take on FMQs in the CalMerc - lava actually - is well worth reading. Re dour Iain, his "[c]rivvens, once more, Elmer had taken a pudding and drowned the thing in eggs" was spot on, and he was right on the money with: "Eck said he wouldn’t dare tell any member of the chamber, least of all Murdo (Rangers and England), which team to support."
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129. At 00:01am on 16 Apr 2010, frankly__francophone wrote:"A very English debate in a very English election".
Correction, "it was A very English debate in a very English election by a very English biased broadcaster".
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#133. At 02:30am on 16 Apr 2010, eye_write wrote:"(As, to Westminster, they are 'us' and we are 'them'.):
That's the problem they refuse to face up to. Westminster is actually the English Parliament and only doubles as the UK Parliament when it suits them. As there is no English Parliament, every English constituency returns a Member of the English Parliament, as well as a member of the UK Parliament. There will never be justice until England has a parliament of her own - like everyone else. HOME RULE FOR ENGLAND.
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Leaders debate leaves democracy in ashes.
Newsnet Scotland
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I thought Nick Clegg did well last night.
Almost made me want to vote Lib Dem. Then I remembered Tavish...
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It is interesting that most commentators think the Libs will benefit from the equal billing Clegg got last night. Presumebly it follows that an unequal billing will be a serious blow to any campaign. Hence the stifling of debate in Scotland and the sidelining of the SNP, the biggest party in Scotland. A disgrace. Don't know what we can do about it.
Freedom
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Latest poll...
ComRes/ITV: CON 36 (-3), LDEM 35 (+14), LAB 24 (-3)
(Nation-wide, 4000 people)
Obviously a Lib Dem surge was expected, but that is a LARGE increase. Wonder how long that will last?
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Lol an hour to moderate they must be having to go via London for confirmation on what they are allowed to do!
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On the other "volcanic cloud" which, it seems, Brian is not allowed to mention, Kenneth Roy has an excellent take in the Scottish Review with his We are now living in a foreign land.
Are the mods too busy with HYS? One hour delay is unusual this early in the day.
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152 F-F
Nick's "Opportunity" will be to get in to bed with a "Great Clunking Fist" - a treat that even Peter Mandelson would not relish. Whilst I think that would be preferable to the Real Tories - the reality is that Scotland would remain "dependant" on economic policies driven for the benefit of SE Britain.
As for Eck heading for the Lords. Not a chance - hell will freeze over etc etc.
The SNP have principles and the fact that every single SNP leader has spurned the opportunity to be "bought and sold" into the upper house illustrates that fact. I am sure that our Madame Ecosse would have loved it - but I'm delighted that she also told Westminster where to put their title!
Slainte Mhor
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Great piece from Rab on the debate
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For anyone advocating independence as a "solution" to Labour and Tory cuts, one thing needs to be made clear: The cuts will be even worse under the SNP!
With independence, Scotland will take on a share of the UK budget deficit relative to the size of population, so we would be starting off in the same position.
We would then have all the costs involved in setting up a new tax system, social security system, network of embassies abroad, new defence force etc. At the same time, if we want to enter the euro, we will have to make swinging cuts to get the budget deficit down to the target of 4% of GDP which other eurozone countries will insist on in the aftermath of the Greek problems. So, if you want more bureaucracy, and even bigger spending cuts than Labour and the Tories are planning, vote SNP! Personally, I'd rather not!
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Annabel who? I seriously want to comment some more but Mr Moderator can be quite assertive! I just recall my days as a young stag out with some fellow stags, and on occasion I got the hind with the personality.....
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In the event my previous blogg got oblitereted re Mr Annabel, roll on full Scottish independance!!
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Seems pollsters changed their minds...
"ITN/ComRes have just released corrected post-debate figs
Con 35
Lab 28
LDEM 24"
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Gordon Brown is at a college in Brighton with comedian and Labour supporter Eddie Izzard.
"Over the next 15 years the world economy will double in size so there'll be twice as many businesses, twice as many opportunities for jobs, twixce as many opportunities to sell products or services to every part of the world...there's going to be a huge number of new opportunities around the world for everybody and I want Britain and I want you to get the advantage of that."
What an imagination!
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159. Hadrianswall
I thought the exact same thing. If Clegg is benefiting because voters are realising there is an alternative (not that the Lib Dems offer much that differs), then how much could the SNP benefit from the oxygen of this publicity? Not one single outlet of the mainstream media in Scotland is even vaguely sympathetic to the SNP's plight - and yet the SNP are the party of government here in Scotland. I don't know how journalists at these papers and stations can turn a blind eye to this undemocratic situation.
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151. Grahame
Welcome (if bearing gifts for the revolution - even more so!) :-)
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In general
I've read through a few of these homilies...including the snorter from my old pal Frankly Francophone and feel, just like the Beeb, the need to offer a balancing comment.
The three main political parties in the bland debate last night have candidates standing in every constituency in the UK. The SNP has candidates in about 60. What sense of overinflated ego makes the SNP believe that it should have a platform in a UK debate on the same terms? Taking wee Alex's logic to its logical conclusion and we see the nutters from UKIP and even the BNP with a much better claim to a place on the podium. Perhaps the SNP should be putting up a candidate for Bournemouth or Chelmsford before they claim a place on the national stage. The SNP can have its chance to strut and fret upon the stage during the local debate. Wake up and smell the coffee...you're a fringe party nationally.
The whole country faces a particularly bloody round of spending cuts regardless of who wins the election. What is going on at the moment is a gutless phoney war of politicians afraid to appear "nasty" (what used to be called leadership and direction) . I fail to see why Scotland should not have to bear its own share of the public spending reductions when they come? Do you somehow deserve the money more than anyone else? When you're already in receipt of 20% more per head in public spending than where I live, perhaps it would be nice if you volunteered to take the first bullet?
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Is it true that BBC Scotland news editors met with Labour officials over the last few days to discuss Labour's campaign in Scotland???????????
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#152, frankly_francophone
Che in the House of Lords, never!
Besides, by the time he retires from being First Minister, former UK institutions will be irrelevant - pertaining, as they will by then, to a foreign country!
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What's this?
25 hours sionce Brian's musings were posted, and the entry is still open for comments.
Surely some mistake...
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The LibDems are a party that people think about briefly then put to the back of their mind. This could be another false dawn for them.
One benefit that may come from this is that when the LibDems don't get anywhere, as they haven't done for years, they will begin to doubt themselves big time. After all if they can't make it in the present cirumstances, with the electorate hopping mad about the two "big" parties and the public going bonkers for Vince the invincible, when will they ever make it?
It has been said that the debates could be make or break for the Tories The same could be said for the LibDems.
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#165 edinchris
Your inability to distinguish the difference between debt and deficit shows the reliability of your comment is more than suspect. For starters, how come you don't mention that we would not have to support Trident, ID cards, Crossrail or the Olympics? Looking a bit further out would we need to support the English High Speed Rail; would there be so much need to travel to London?
2/10 and try again.
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165. edinchris
"Scotland will take on a share of the UK budget deficit relative to the size of population"
Selective statements are always a mistake. There are so many other people around to fill in your deliberate omissions.
Of course, we take our share of the debts - but we also take our share of the assets!
Even apart from our 96% share of the ex-Regio assets, the value of UK Government properties in London alone vastly exceeds the value of all Government properties in Scotland.
As a simple like for like comparison - try putting a value on the National Art Galleries (and their contents) in London and Edinburgh. No need, of course, for the paintings to be transferred north, or for us to sell off our share of the Tate Modern to a property developer! The asset share that we are owed gets set against the debt liability.
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140. deducted4points
"For a debate that was supposed to have been of no interest to those of you on this blog with SNP leanings, you are making an awful lot of comments about it."
Who said it was of no interest? I was very interested that we were ignored and marginalised and that the party that is the government of Scotland that we voted into office was excluded.
You better being I was interested. Nauseated. And interested in the blow to democracy.
And it motivated me too!
I made that contribution to the SNP that I should have already made. It was very easy to do on their webpage.
No interest? Don't be daft.
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165. edinchris
"With independence, Scotland will take on a share of the UK budget deficit relative to the size of population, so we would be starting off in the same position."
Just a couple of the numerous points missing on your post 'What about all the fixed assets partly paid for in the last 300 years like Westminster itself and our share of the current military hardware.'
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165. edinchris
You forgot to mention that the bogeyman would come and get us.
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edinchris advocates what a terrible thing it would be for the scotch to have control over their own affairs deciding which policies would be better for Scotland. Working an economy beneficial to Scotland and not the SE of England. No he says its far better we let a neighbouring country control our resources and economy. Also that making decisions for Scotland in Scotland rather than hundreds of miles away would create extra bureaucracy!?
How anti-democratic and retarded.
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looks like Brian's Blog is closed for business :) ban g on cue at half 1
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The always said in Scotland you could put a red rosette on a goat and the people would vote for it! You're never going to believe this they're actually doing it in the Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath constituency!
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165. edinchris
"With independence, Scotland will take on a share of the UK budget deficit relative to the size of population, so we would be starting off in the same position."
Nice that you know how the negotiations would come out. But we would no doubt take on a portion of both the debt AND the assets which WE helped pay for.
They can keep Whitehall though--although we helped pay for it. I wouldn't have it on a bet. They can, however, give BACK our portion of paying for the London Olympics and that useless Cross London rail which was taken as a UK contribution with no balancing on the Barnett formula.
Works both ways, my lad.
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Hmmm. As of writing at 15:47, both on the main BBC Scottish politics landing page ANDS on the Scottish landing page of the new BBC election microsite, not a single mention of the SNP's response to last night's absurdity.
Not a single blip.
Wake up Scotland. In the name of the wee man, wake up. If this were South America people would be on the streets.
Clearly the BBC are not happy enough at kidding on it's 1991 in supporting and partly delivering these 'ground breaking' 'history making' UK parliamentary elections.
With Scotland and Wales locked in the closet, they're even going so far as to clip any intuitive path through to an SNP response.
Utterly disgraceful. Brian Taylor - hang your wee head in shame.
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BBC Campaign Show
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Dear Wendy wrote: Salmond's Party Political Broadcast was excellent. Hit the right spot at the right time for a Scottish audience that was excluded from the Manchester debate. The whole SNP election theme gains credibility the longer the other parties campaign goes on. Scotland being ignored, sidelined and lacking a voice - with the SNP the obvious remedy. It's got an increasing ring of truth to it.
Spot on Wendy, you get my vote :)
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The Herald & Times newspaper group has named Jonathan Russell as its new editor-in-chief of news operations and editor of The Herald.
The 40-year-old journalist is currently assistant editor of the Daily Record and Sunday Mail.
Methinks, more of the same – and then some more.
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Over 2 hours for posts to be moderated? If the BBC really are paying an outside firm (with licence payers' money)for this service, they're being stiffed.
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170. rolfrae
"I don't know how journalists at these papers and stations can turn a blind eye to this undemocratic situation. "
Because they are treacherous, lying scum. Look at this headline in The Sowhatsman for example,
SNP 'backs criminals' on knives
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172. Anglophone
"The three main political parties in the bland debate last night have candidates standing in every constituency in the UK."
Name the Labour candidate in Upper Bann.
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173. minuend
"Is it true that BBC Scotland news editors met with Labour officials over the last few days to discuss Labour's campaign in Scotland?"
Well they're not coordinating their activities by telepathy.
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175. Miss Terri Poster
"25 hours sionce Brian's musings were posted, and the entry is still open for comments."
Maybe they are trying to compensate for the two hour delay in publishing posts. I get the distinct impression they are trying to run this blog down to nothing.
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#172. At 2:18pm on 16 Apr 2010, Anglophone wrote:
"When you're already in receipt of 20% more per head in public spending than where I live, perhaps it would be nice if you volunteered to take the first bullet?"
Presumably you'll be lobbying for the similarly-subsidised citzens of London, Liverpool and Newcastle to be taking that bullet as well?
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I trust everyone has complained to Ofcom about the rigged Party Election Broadcast last night. Contact details can be found here.
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Goldman Sachs have been charged with fraud.
I didn't know they were Labour MPs!
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I'm looking for contributions for the Scottish Media Hall of Shame.
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Anglophone
You miss Mr Salmond's point, in fact you misrepresent it
his point is that in Scotland, either he as SNP Leader, or Angus Robertson as Westminster bod should be talking with the four leaders.
Devolution has changed the way things work, this whole exercise pretends that it hasn't. The Broadcasters are giving three parties a platform to talk about policies in areas over which they have no ocontrol in three parts of the UK
IN Northern Ireland none of these parties are even Standing
The format is flawed
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172. Anglophone
Hmmn, balanced, calm, well informed...you're a 'fringe poster' on here, should you be silenced?
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187. cynicalHighlander
"BBC Campaign Show"
You can see why Brown, Cameron and the other one are terrified to share a platform with Salmond. He'd eat them alive.
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To No 177 handclapping:
You're right, as an independent country we would not have to support the costs of Crossrail, Trident and the Olympics. What we would have to do instead is:
1) Pay for the 2014 Commonwealth Games in Glasgow
2) Pay for the Forth Replacement Crossing, the Borders Rail Link, widening of the A9 and A82, the Glasgow Airport Rail Link (well maybe not that one, but you get the idea...)
3) Continue to meet the costs of free personal care for the elderly when our elderly population is going up rapidly
4) Pay for all the renewable technology needed to come close to our target of achieving our Climate Change targets
5) Pay for the costs of scrapping prescription charges
6) Pay the tuition fee costs of all Scottish students
All of this whilst working under strict criteria to reduce our deficit and create more bureaucracy, and at the end of it all, our version of "freedom" would mean having no control over:
1) Our currency - controlled by Brussels
2) Interest rates - controlled by Brussels
3) Defence - we would be dependent on NATO
4) Law - the highest court of appeal would be the European court in Strasbourg.
Is the UK really that bad? When you look at the number of Scots that have been in the Cabinet over the last 13 years?
Gordon Brown, Alistair Darling, John Reid, Robin Cook, George Robertson, Des Browne, Douglas Alexander to name a few...
I am no fan of the Tories, but I think if you look at the 13 years as a whole, Labour has been good to Scotland. The Union is not perfect, but Labour have guaranteed to implement the Calman commission to make it work better, and I think they are the best party for Scotland.
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197. oldnat
"Goldman Sachs have been charged with fraud."
SEC Formally Charges Goldman Sachs With Derivatives Fraud with Paulson and Company - another 'Rogue Trader?'
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201. Electric Hermit
They'd get sick notes to excuse themselves.
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#187. Probably Eck's best ever interview. Hang on 'till the end to hear the interviewer congratulate him. Also interesting to note that Mathew Parrish and Eve Pollard (studio guests) were probing but not hostile.
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volcano webcam Flying around UK looks like it will be grounded for a while.
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Anglophone:
#172.
"The three main political parties in the bland debate last night have candidates standing in every constituency in the UK."
Wrong! The three 'main' political parties choose to not stand against the speaker of the house. This is traditional, it's not obligated and therefore we can see that not all constinuencies are going to have candidates by the... apparent main three political parties.
"The SNP has candidates in about 60. What sense of overinflated ego makes the SNP believe that it should have a platform in a UK debate on the same terms?"
Ofcom has decided that in Scotland, the SNP are a main party and this should be reflected in the debates, which are shown in Scotland. However, yesterday was not a debate on the UK-level, it was mainly English local issues.
"Taking wee Alex's logic to its logical conclusion and we see the nutters from UKIP and even the BNP with a much better claim to a place on the podium."
It does not give way to UKIP and the BNP since neither UKIP nor the BNP have seats at Westminister, does Ofcome recognise them as main parties? How can you be a main party without the representation, at least the SNP, in Scotland are considered a main party. Besides I personally would be supportive of UKIPs and the BNPs attempts of equal standing, if and once Ofcom recognises them as equals. I am more afraid and are against people like you, who seek to bend democracy to your advantage. It kinda destroys the moist basic democratic principal of equal rights for all.
"The SNP can have its chance to strut and fret upon the stage during the local debate. Wake up and smell the coffee...you're a fringe party nationally."
Yes, but the SNP seek to be represented inside Scotland only. That's all the SNP wanted. You can't deny the SNP are considered a major party and therefore it should be respected.
"I fail to see why Scotland should not have to bear its own share of the public spending reductions when they come? Do you somehow deserve the money more than anyone else?"
I actually expect my representative to represent my interests. It's perfectly acceptable for individuals to trade support for money, that's politics. Their constinuents will have their interests protected. Isn't that the purpose? I have no loyalty to England, it would be an acceptable reaction if England suffered slightly more then the people of Scotland.
"When you're already in receipt of 20% more per head in public spending than where I live, perhaps it would be nice if you volunteered to take the first bullet?"
Don't let your own local failings cloud your judgement. England does not fund their regions equally, perhaps you should look for money from London before you look to raid the resources of Scotland, once again, that appears to have been the economic policy of England for the last 300 years?
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#71 - "#52 Why do you Nats keep bleeting on about the freeze in council tax being so wonderful. It is one of the worst thought through ideas of all time; nothing more than a political stunt. No wonder councils are going bust, the SNP has robbed them of their main method of raising funds for local services... SNP the party of Scotland - Yeah right!"
Except council tax isn't the main funding for local authorities in Scotland. Here's a breakdown of funding for local authority income for last year, detailing where the money comes from:
KEY SUMMARY FACTS
- Total Revenue income in 2008-09 was £17.3 billion.
- Total Capital income in 2008-09 was £1.0 billion.
- Council Tax income was £1.9 billion.
- There were 2,349,733 Council Tax chargeable dwellings in September 2008.
- The Scotland average Council Tax band D level was £1,149 in 2008-09.
- Distributable Non-domestic rate income in 2008-09 was £1.9 billion.
- There were 212,767 subjects on the Valuation Roll at 1 April 2009 with a total rateable value of £5,299m.
- Total capital grants in 2008-09 were £749 million.
- Total capital receipts in 2008-09 were £230 million.
- General Revenue Funding ( GRF) income in 2008-09 was £7.4 billion.
- Total Revenue Funding ( TRF) in 2008-09 was £10.2 billion.
Note that the main funding comes from a block grant from the Scottish Government (yes, the SNP one) and that they give a larger percentage of the Scottish block grant to LAs than the Lab/Lib alliance ever did.
So "SNP the party of Scotland - Yeah right!" is exactly right!
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202. edinchris
"What we would have to do instead is:
1) Pay for the 2014 Commonwealth Games in Glasgow
2) Pay for the Forth Replacement Crossing, the Borders Rail Link, widening of the A9 and A82, the Glasgow Airport Rail Link (well maybe not that one, but you get the idea...)
3) Continue to meet the costs of free personal care for the elderly when our elderly population is going up rapidly
4) Pay for all the renewable technology needed to come close to our target of achieving our Climate Change targets
5) Pay for the costs of scrapping prescription charges
6) Pay the tuition fee costs of all Scottish students"
All of which we are doing, or planning on doing, in any case. So what's the difference?
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Edin Chris:
#202.
"All of this whilst working under strict criteria to reduce our deficit and create more bureaucracy, and at the end of it all, our version of "freedom" would mean having no control over:
1) Our currency - controlled by Brussels"
For the past many years our currency does not reflects the needs of a country who earns her money through exports.
"2) Interest rates - controlled by Brussels"
The interest rates reflects the needs of London and the south east for the past many years.
"3) Defence - we would be dependent on NATO"
Britain is dependent on NATO. Do you honestly believe the UK is still a world power, with USA support, Russia etc would not take notice.
"Is the UK really that bad? When you look at the number of Scots that have been in the Cabinet over the last 13 years?
Gordon Brown, Alistair Darling, John Reid, Robin Cook, George Robertson, Des Browne, Douglas Alexander to name a few..."
There's a difference to a Scot working in the interests of Scotland and Brits working in the interests of Great Britain. The Scots you named are supportive of the United Kingdom, their interests lie in the benefits of the United Kingdom. I am not suggesting Scotlands interests have always been ignored but it's not always possible or suitable to always work in the interests of the minority. To believe that we must give up certain policies, or move in a different direction, which may be against the interests for Scotland for the sake of the greater good of the United Kingdom is illogical and very unpatriotic from a Scots perspective.
"Labour has been good to Scotland. The Union is not perfect, but Labour have guaranteed to implement the Calman commission to make it work better, and I think they are the best party for Scotland."
Have you actually bothered to read the Calman commission? Independent sources have suggested Scotland will be disadvanatged because of the half-baked ideas created by Labour. The best party of Scotland? At least the Conservatives are worked with the SNP since the SNP became the government in Scotland, now please tell me what Labour have done for Scotland during the SNPs minority administration.
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edinchris
You continue to say making our own decisions in Scotland for Scotland is a bad thing? Our currency isn't under our control or our defence or our interest rates they are under the control of London. We have no voice in Europe to influence anything at Brussels. We aren't in an equal union such as the EU. We are in a partnership where we had all rights and control taken away.
As for Labour hasn't been so bad! The amount of acts against freedom and democracy they have introduced while wrecking the economy and being the most corrupt of all the parties.
If you love being dominated by a powerful partner and having all power taken away from you. There are places you can pay to go! Let the rest of us have freedom and democracy and control of our own affairs.
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#172 Anglophone
"The three main political parties in the bland debate last night have candidates standing in every constituency in the UK. The SNP has candidates in about 60. What sense of overinflated ego makes the SNP believe that it should have a platform in a UK debate on the same terms?"
Apart from the downright untruth that any party stands "in every constituency in the UK", the real point is that there should be no such thing as a UK debate. What we witnessed last night should have been billed as an English party leaders' debate, since it was between the three major parties in that nation. It should only have been broadcast outwith that nation with strong on-screen caveats that it does not apply to Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland.
Try reading House of Commons Library Standard Note PC/03354 on Party Election Broadcasts [a PDF easily Googled] on Allocation of broadcasts it states very clearly: The four nations of the UK will be considered separately.
It also defines major parties: Major parties in Great Britain are defined as: Labour, Conservative, Liberal Democrats and, in Scotland and Wales respectively, the SNP and Plaid Cymru. Major parties in Northern Ireland are defined as Democratic Unionist, SDLP, Sinn Fein and Ulster Unionist.
s6 of the Ofcom Broadcasting Code on Elections and Referendums gives the same definitions, as does this website's Editorial Guidelines - Election 2010.
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202. At 5:04pm on 16 Apr 2010, edinchris wrote:
> You're right, as an independent country we would not have to support the costs of Crossrail, Trident and the Olympics.
~ Yep!
> What we would have to do instead is:
Commonwealth Games in Glasgow
~ Also generates money!
> The Forth Replacement Crossing, the Borders Rail Link, widening of the A9 and A82
~ All entirely affordable for a 'normal' country
> Continue to meet the costs of free personal care for the elderly when our elderly population is going up rapidly
~ Again, with a Scottish future in renewables/water/oil, and our tiny population, we can do this! Be optimistic dude! Your underlying premise is that we couldn't afford any of this?? Please, you're either blissfully naive or blinkered - or both.
>Pay for all the renewable technology needed to come close to our target of achieving our Climate Change targets
~ Yep - and as a WORLD leader, we'd be doing fine, trust me.
> Pay for the costs of scrapping prescription charges
~ See above!
> Pay the tuition fee costs of all Scottish students
~ And again - newsflash! Countries pay for stuff. 'Clever' countries pay for it in good fashion. Why would ANYONE think in such a manner. Are you that bereft of belief. Have you eyes on other countries?
>>
1) Our currency - controlled by Brussels
2) Interest rates - controlled by Brussels
3) Defence - we would be dependent on NATO
4) Law - the highest court of appeal would be the European court in Strasbourg.
LOL! And we have control of that now?? Perhaps we'd stop dying in daft wars? Or put more money into the education system rather than Trident?
>> Is the UK really that bad?
In every reasonable sense, yes.
Gordon Brown, Alistair Darling, John Reid, Robin Cook, George Robertson, Des Browne, Douglas Alexander are merely examples of the very worst kind of political narrative, and one - depressingly - which people like you grasp with gusto.
That of 'we cannae dae that'. Politics - good politics - *has* to be based on bettering things, on positive, forward moving ideologies.
Unionism in Scotland is an ideology which is utterly devoid of true positive thought. What kind of nation wants to move forward on that? What kind of country says '..it has to be this way, because we cannot afford/are not capable of the other..?'
The reason there *is* a union, my short-sighted friend, is because politicians look 20-years in front of themselves. In the 1970's it was oil future. Let me explain something, 20-years from now, it'll be an energy and water issue. Westminster parties are entirely aware of the future of the parched South East. With no Scotland and Wales, that means massive - MASSIVE - issues for England.
Rather than being accused of being a scrounger and having London simply take OUR future, I say make it our own. They can buy it from us.
A country that no control of whether it's people die in some sandbox in the middle of nowhere, is not a country at all.
Give yourself a wee shake son.
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#165 edinchris
"We would then have all the costs involved in setting up a new tax system, social security system, network of embassies abroad, new defence force etc."
Others have pointed out the lack of realism in your assumption that only debts but not assets would be divided, but why would Scotland need new taxation systems to collect taxes from income tax to VAT and any other existing tax you care to name. The systems development was a UK expenditure and the systems themselves are assets to be shared by those who paid for them. Even the computers on which they run are shared assets, as is the DVLC. For the latter, a new office might be needed but all the rest are operating in Scotland right now.
Whether they are fit for purpose is, of course, a different matter entirely.
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Witterings From Witney
I really don't understand why the public are not allowed 'free' television - lets face it, if the BBC is hand-in-hand' with the Lib/Lab/Con, let them fund it!
Concur.
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#165 - "With independence, Scotland will take on a share of the UK budget deficit relative to the size of population, so we would be starting off in the same position.
We would then have all the costs involved in setting up a new tax system, social security system, network of embassies abroad, new defence force etc."
Yet another Unionist scaremongerer trying to convince us gullible Scots we'd be forced to take on our share of our national debts without receiving any share of national assets. Dream on.
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#170 - "If Clegg is benefiting because voters are realising there is an alternative (not that the Lib Dems offer much that differs), then how much could the SNP benefit from the oxygen of this publicity? "
These polls could make any potential court case against the Beeb pretty air tight for the SNP. It'll be interesting to see.
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#202 - "I think if you look at the 13 years as a whole, Labour has been good to Scotland. The Union is not perfect, but Labour have guaranteed to implement the Calman commission to make it work better, and I think they are the best party for Scotland."
Whilst you're entitled to your opinion, I'd be interested in what you base it on. Parts of Scotland have the lowest life expectancy, the highest rate of teen pregnancy and abortion, the lowest rate of trade development, the highest rate of murder, the poorest recovery rates for cancer, the highest levels of obesity, the highest levels of tooth decay, the worst levels of child poverty (and I could go on, and on, and on) in Europe.
All of this occurred with in your beloved UK (that you think "it's not so bad") whilst those champions of the people, the Labour Party, have been in control. Yet you think Labour have been good to Scotland?!? Incredulous.
As for promising the fully implement the Calman commision? Why do you still believe this lie when Viceroy Jim has already rejected almost half the recommendations? And the half that are left will burden us with the bureaucracy without giving us any the benefits and will almost certainly ensure that income tax in Scotland is higher than the rest of the UK.
Labour good to Scotland? No, Labour are good to themselves.
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215. cynicalHighlander
"I really don't understand why the public are not allowed 'free' television - lets face it, if the BBC is hand-in-hand' with the Lib/Lab/Con, let them fund it!"
What an appalling thought! We are trying to eliminate political party control of the media. Not formalise it!
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Completely on an aside. Does anyone have a PS3? Steve Purcell has just released chapter 1 of his latest episodic game. The name of the chapter? The Penal Zone.
Coincidence?
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219. Electric Hermit
"What an appalling thought! We are trying to eliminate political party control of the media. Not formalise it!"
Why? Our publicly funded media is politicised already and that will never change in a month of Sundays. It is like the big banks in an unasailable position where they dictate and we have to submit.
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Again we have certain posters warning us of the perils of leaving the Union. Surely one of them can come up with a good positive reason why we should stay in the Union? This question has been asked of the Unionists several times by myself and others and we have never had a reply. If the Union is so good for the people of Scotland then why can't the Unionists come forward with a list of benefits that we have by remaining in the Union?
I suspect that the truth behind the Unionists fear of refusing to indulge with the Nationalists in this type of discussion is that the Nationalists will rip their argument to pieces. Where are the 'benefits' of remaining in the Union? Surely there must be some?
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