Keeping a roof over your head
Scottish government announces new money for council houses. House-builders talk of crisis. Shelter talks of ministerial failure.
What's going on? Firstly, a Westminster election. Homes for Scotland, the construction industry body, wants to influence MPs and would-be MPs with regard to mortgages and tax.
In particular, it is pressing for fundamental reform of stamp duty plus tax incentives for private rented accommodation to counter the sluggishness verging on lethargy which it is experiencing in the wider housing market.
But it highlights that by warning the Scottish government will be unable to meet house building targets unless things ease.
Secondly, there is the issue of the Scottish government budget.
Yes, the minister Alex Neil has announced that extra cash, drawn from Barnett consequentials, will be converted into council housing investment with authorities invited to bid.
Yes, the capital investment over three years in housing has been some £1.7bn.
Treasury rebuff
However, in the budget secured by John Swinney last week, housing suffers one of the biggest cuts.
Year-on-year, compared with 2009-10, the money allocated to housing for 2010-11 is substantially down in both capital and revenue accounts.
You can say - Alex Neil does today - that this is largely because funding accelerated to other years has to be repaid in 2010-11.
Remember Scottish ministers pressed for further acceleration and were rebuffed by the Treasury.
However, it is also the case that John Swinney and his team made choices within the money allocated to them.
Glance at table three in the annexe to the Scottish Budget (already your daily reading, I feel sure.)
You will see that, overall, health is protected while housing is not. Now, of course, housing is relatively capital-dependent and thus particularly vulnerable to the acceleration issue.
Social housing
It is, however, also partly a question of choice.
That is where the Shelter criticism comes in. They welcome the money diverted to affordable housing but note that it "failed" to address the emerging "hole" in the wider housing budget.
There is a range of further issues here.
House construction soaks up labour and enhances the economy - but is it universally welcome? Or should we target social housing in particular? Or, as Homes for Scotland argue, is private housing often developed in tandem with social housing?
Is the big problem productive social investment?
Or does the real blockage lie in the mortgage market: those pesky banks again? Could the UK government do more to ease credit availability?
Not easy - but germane.
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In response to the blog, the Scottish Federation of Housing Associations set out its position on the issue of affordable homes.
Here is what the organisation had to say:
Dear Brian,
Today's edition of your blog - Keeping a roof over your head - neatly comes to the nub of the problem when arguing for more money for affordable housing - as the SFHA has done consistently over the last 12 months.
On the one hand, the Scottish government has stuck to its commitment to spend £1.7bn over three years (as set out in the 2006 Comprehensive Spending Review), enabling it to claim that the budget has not changed.
On the other hand, £120m from this year's budget was accelerated to cope with the effects of the recession, into the two previous financial years - meaning that this year, when we are scarcely out of recession, there is £120m less to spend on building homes than we otherwise would have had.
That's why opposition parties and campaign groups have branded it a cut.
The Scottish Federation of Housing Association's consistent position has been for MSPs and the Scottish Government to close this gap by reinstating the £120m to the budget.
Housing currently enjoys only around 1.6 per cent of the total Scottish Budget.
Your blog, on the other hand, overlooked the primary builders and managers of affordable housing in Scotland - housing associations and co-operatives.
Associations are the main builders of new homes, manage around half of Scotland's affordable housing stock, and receive public subsidy through the Affordable Housing Investment Programme (AHIP).
In the 2010-11 Budget, this year's AHIP will drop will drop to £471m from £675m in 2009-10.
For every pound of public subsidy housing associations receive, they lever in approximately an extra pound from private finance.
However, our members face the twin threat of more difficult-to-obtain private finance and the effort of front-funding development projects.
Currently our members are front-funding around £100m of new build projects.
Housing associations are now facing gaps opening up in their budgets for 2010-11 and beyond.
There is a danger that affordable house building, which has been bridging some of the gap created by the slump in private developments, will fall significantly - at a time when demand for homes, especially affordable homes, is extremely high.
According to the Scottish Housing Regulator (April 09) there are 285,662 people on waiting lists for Registered Social Landlords.
We also have an all-party commitment to ending involuntary homelessness by 2010 to take into consideration, as well as the strong economic multiplier effects of building new housing, for a country which is struggling to emerge from recession.
The SFHA will continue to campaign for a greater share of the Scottish Budget to be spent on building new homes and creating sustainable communities.
I'm 
~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~05~RS~)
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Ah, I wondered how long it would take to report the Shelter criticism.
BBC Scotland currently running a trailer for a programme on right to buy - the trailer usus the quite dranatic tag that the SNP are seeking to 'remove this universal right'.
Remember that under Labour only SIX council houses were built throughout their term - abysmal record.
Finally - for those who may have missed it due to the quick refresh of blogs, Newsnet Scotland has an analysis of the lunch story.
Click Here
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Brian
You are infected with the modern malaise, you talk of money and think it is related to housing. Look at it the other way round. We want houses, lots of houses, in penny packets round the country. Why not design and build a house in bits in a factory and then its only the ground work that needs to be done on site? The house comes on four lorries and a crane and its done and dusted. More houses, less money.
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Brian,
Are you deliberately trying to obfuscate the issue? Maybe I am being too simple, but is the housing budget (for this year) going up or down? Are more or less houses being built?
John
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Jeez, Online Ed, it took you 20mins to find this article. Get a grip, lad.
Tell me, do you perhaps know of any online news sites that can give us further insight into nationalism-related topics?
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Thanks to the person who informed me that the link was broken.
Try This
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2. handclapping:
It is an idea worth pursuing, since councils always seem able to put up a pile of prefabs for travelling communities quick enough.
Perhaps it would be a good idea for young people leaving home for the first time. Gives them somewhere affordable to live, and to be honest when you are young you spend more time out than in.
This would allow parents to then seek smaller houses, allowing those with young families to get into larger houses.
The only problem with prefabs is that they don't tend to last very long. But I would expect modern materials to be more robust than the stuff they used in the 50s.
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The BBC chorus line, right behind Iain Gray and Gordon Broon's vision of a new 'United' Kingdom, with no troublesome minorities to bother them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K08akOt2kuo&feature=related
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Brian if I "owned" my neighbour and gave him pocket money to live on as I saw fit, I too could have endless hours of fun shouting at him over the fence "Did you know your roof's leaking?" as I watched him trying to cut the grass with the rusty manicure scissors I'd sold him for the purpose.
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Choices. That's what setting a budget is about.
The Scottish Government have chosen to invest £1.7 BILLION in public housing.
The previous NuLab/LD administration chose to build 6 (SIX) council houses in 8 years.
The Scottish Government have chosen to suspend the "right" to buy.
The previous NuLab/LD administration chose to allow this "right" to continue whilst not replacing the stock that they sold off.
Which policy serves the Scottish People best ?
Which administration serves the Scottish People best ?
The Scottish People NEED houses.
I need a house but even on a very-well-above average income I can not get a mortgage. The UK Government now has controlling interests in several banks. I can not get a mortgage, even for a Contemporary Luxury Modern Two-Bed apartment that are available by the acre in the Southside. In order to get a mortage at the moment, I would have to have approximately a year's wages as savings.
Can you guess who I think is at fault ? Clue. Not the current Scottish Government. Who may not be perfect but at least they're damned well trying.
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No. 6 said:
"The only problem with prefabs is that they don't tend to last very long. But I would expect modern materials to be more robust than the stuff they used in the 50s."
The prefabs did last a long time - longer than some high rise flats built in the 60s. There are still prefabs around - they had a roughcast outer skin added to them in the '70s and that extended their lifespan.
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"NHS strategy shifts from targets to quality"
http://health.caledonianmercury.com/2010/02/09/nhs-strategy-shifts-from-targets-to-quality/00178
We are seeing a significant shift in policy under this Government compared with previous Lab/LD administrations.
A move away from micro-management by the centre, mistrust of staff to deliver, target setting (which moves staff away from delivery and towards bean counting) etc.
A move towards local management (Concordat with COSLA) : trusting staff while demanding high levels of self-evaluation (HMIe inspections) : focus on overall delivery - not selected aspects (NHS reforms).
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
From The Times:
We're living in broken Britain, say most voters.
This poll suggests that 70 per cent believe that society is now broken,
I don’t know if Scotland was included in this poll.
http://tinyurl.com/yewqg3t
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#2&6
Land can be a very large part of the cost of a house. An acre of agricultural land has a value of less than £5,000 but with planning permission can inflate to £500,000. There are some communities, I think Norway is one of them, where local government purchases the land needed for housing at the agriculture value and passes it on to the home builders at that price.
A century ago a car cost much more than a house, but in that time housebuilding has barely evolved. It is technically possible to mass produce prefabricated housing units in factories and if done in the far east, would probably be as cheap as a car and there is no reason why they should look like the old prefabs and also last indefinitely.
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I don’t know why you bother it’s been clear for years that the bbc in Scotland are patsies for the labour party, that is aside from there unionist charter. What it means for the bbc and the British media like the “Scottish newspapers” is that they don’t have any influence on the snp, or should not have any. After all you can’t keep calling wolf and expect it to have the same effect, plus you lose creditability. What bothers me more is the lack of action by the snp when you see this day after day not to take on the British media. The bbc news channel is effectively been turned over to the British political parties to subsidise their general election campaigns.
I am sure the snp would find friends outside of Scotland if they where seen to stand up for the TV licences fee payers if they start to ask questions of why they are subsidising there political campaigns
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
12. Patrick Kirkwood
"this blog no longer seems to deal with substantive issues of public policy"
I shall continue to stick to higher standards! :-)
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#2 handclapping
"More houses, less money."
Spot on. We've opened this area of discussion before, though not with the "cover" of being "on-topic" so far as I recall.
A modern prefab would be as equally easy to place on brownfield sites in towns and cities as it would be on greenfield sites elsewhere, and orders of magnitude more cost-effective.
As Brian almost says, however, the $64,000 question becomes the upfront captial cost or "funding acceleration" in government-speak. To get the new prefab module design right may take a few attempts if we are to avoid some of the problems of the past. Well worthwhile IMO, but not something that can easily be done in Hoyrppd's "pocket-money" situation.
Still worth attempting, though.
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"you may note elsewhere on this site that I am due to interview David Mundell MP, the latest in our webcast series. I'd very much welcome your questions, which you can send by clicking here. "
I already sent you a question, Mr. Taylor. Will you, for once, decide to ask a hard question?
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We should take these population growth estimates with a very large shovel of salt! Mostly they're based on estimates of arriving migrants from eastern europe and Pakistan, who're likley to move on: either down south or back home. In the 1960s Registrars were forecasting a UK population in excess of 70 millions by 1990. We're nowhere near that even now.
Local Authorities - whose estimates the Registrar takes account of - are allocated funding according to their own population estimates. Since LAs are bundles of humans who react to incentives, we should be more careful with those estimates. Moreover, we don't have turnstiles on our borders and have no measure of in-comers or out-goers.
House prices are far too high in Scotland relative to household formations, development plans and the selling prices of completed homes. Land-owners are hanging on in the hope that demand will return on the back of our supposed growing population.
Let's compare our previous population forecasts with next year's census.
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Oddly enough there is a media that chooses to actually cover the news:
Since Scottish soldiers have died, I have to as why the Chilcot commission is not considered "Scottish news" by some. You will find it covered here: Jack Straw ditches Blair
Referencing back to BJ's argument that internet information is "inaccessible" let me quote the last ar
Sir John Chilcot, in closing statements, said the panel was “committed to being open and transparent about how we are approaching our task and the information we are receiving. This is the first inquiry of its kind in this country to have hearings broadcast on television and streamed on the internet.” He added that so far there had been nearly three quarters of a million hits on the inquiry website.
Three quarters of a million hits ain't bad for somewhere not accessible. Does The Scotsman manage that many readers? *snickers*
We know the answer, don't we. I do make it a policy not to link to their articles though as page views drives advertising income for them.
I am happy to link to the Cally. People link to ONLINE news sources all the time and hence they spread like wildfire not only in a single town but across continents and oceans. Something to think about while The Scotsman and The Herald throw temper fits about getting public money to prop them up and try to take over TV news WITH that money while remaining free of public scrutiny.
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9. Chiefy1724
"Choices. That's what setting a budget is about.
The Scottish Government have chosen to invest £1.7 BILLION in public housing.
The previous NuLab/LD administration chose to build 6 (SIX) council houses in 8 years.
The Scottish Government have chosen to suspend the "right" to buy.
The previous NuLab/LD administration chose to allow this "right" to continue whilst not replacing the stock that they sold off.
Which policy serves the Scottish People best ?
Which administration serves the Scottish People best ?
The Scottish People NEED houses.
I need a house but even on a very-well-above average income I can not get a mortgage. The UK Government now has controlling interests in several banks. I can not get a mortgage, even for a Contemporary Luxury Modern Two-Bed apartment that are available by the acre in the Southside. In order to get a mortage at the moment, I would have to have approximately a year's wages as savings.
Can you guess who I think is at fault ? Clue. Not the current Scottish Government. Who may not be perfect but at least they're damned well trying."
QFT
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21. JRMacClure
"Referencing back to BJ's argument that internet information is "inaccessible" let me quote the last ar"
Oops accidentally cut off part of my sentence which should read "let me quote part of that article's last sentence".
So, BJ, how many people did I just shout about that INTERNET article to?
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#20
Also there are lots of empty houses in Scotland, including social housing. The cities have been demolishing houses for years and it's not just high rises. Some were constructed decades ago and are of a high build standard. They are unoccupied because they are unfashionable and that often because of antisocial tenants. Rather than deal with this element, housing management bureaucrats, prefer the easy option, of demolition. But of course, that does not solve the problem, it moves it and it starts all over again.
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Newspapers Up Campaign Against Public Notices Switch Proposal
... we've noticed.
The Record has been rapped over the knuckles by the PCC Click Here.
Unfortunately it isn't due to their quite appalling picture of Al-Megrahi they stated had been taken months after his release from prison [it was actually taken hours after his release].
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#19-JR , evening , I sent Mr Taylor 2 questions for him to use as his plee shows us he is kind of short on tough questions to ask . don't know that he will use them though, they were possibly a bit to close to the truth for a BBC employee to be asking a unionist politician but we live in hope.
Sid
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Look there is no point taking this blog seriously 24.they have no intension of letting the truth get in the way of attacking the Scottish Government this is all about headlines to help labour at the British general election so its about maximising ant-snp propaganda to inflict damage.
They will not mind in a few years to say they are wrong but the damage will be done..
What gets my goat is what a bunch of softies the snp leadership are letting them get away with it.
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FWIW, the details of the TNS Scotland poll from last week are finally available here.
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Hi Brian,
I'd like you to ask David Mundell whether David Cameron will keep to his promise of staying out of devolved Scottish matters - DESPITE breaking that promise last year by criticising the Justice Secretary for releasing the Lockerbie Bomber. I found Mr Cameron to be in dereliction of his promise to the Scottish Government in seeking to politicise a matter that had NOTHING to do with him, or his party. I would seek assurances, nay PROMISES from Mr Mundell that such slips will never happen again.
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Sorry to reheat old stovies, but has anyone else noticed how the 'Meals for Deals' story has vanished from the new pages of the Scotsman?
They seemed to be turning it into a saga of Biblical proportions but now it has evaporated like mist in the morning.
Does this mean there is a coming revelation regarding Labour and cash-for-access, and the feeling is 'least said, soonest mended'?
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I see that the UK Govt has awarded the helicopter search and rescue contract to a consortium consisting of a Canadian helicopter company, a French defence electronics company and RBS which will provide PFI services.
S&R ops will be shifted to Glasgow airport from Prestwick and it seems certain the Royal Navy unit there will be disbanded.
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tamO
The SNP leadership are what you call 'a bunch of softies' because they realise that ranting, tub thumping, Mr Angry's, like you, are a voter turn off.
You do not advance your cause, if the declared one, is the real one.
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13. tullibardine
"
We're living in broken Britain, say most voters."
They keep saying it, hoping people will parrot it - that way we'll accept their prescription for our medicine when they're in a position to 'fix it'.
We're not broken so much as worn down and exploited. What's broken is the system that's intent on gaming society for profit and power. We need to break it back.
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14. rochcarlie
"Land can be a very large part of the cost of a house."
Land ownership in an independent Scotland from top to bottom is something i'd like to know more about, I think it's critical to our constitution and and society post-independence. If anyone has any links that'll save me googling...
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30. At 7:39pm on 09 Feb 2010, curley_bill wrote:
Sorry to reheat old stovies, but has anyone else noticed how the 'Meals for Deals' story has vanished from the new pages of the Scotsman?
They seemed to be turning it into a saga of Biblical proportions but now it has evaporated like mist in the morning.
Does this mean there is a coming revelation regarding Labour and cash-for-access, and the feeling is 'least said, soonest mended'?
The Scotsman may have an anti-SNP agenda but one thing they tend to avoid is running their own concerted campaign - I stand to be corrected - but it seems to me that they adopt a short sharp burst tactic then move to another topic.
The Herald however seem to think that running a tabloidesque campaign is the way to go. Their pushing of the 'Universality' story became pathetic but didn't really do much by way of damage to them.
Their decision though to bury Devine and embelish a very minor story has I believe been a serious misjudgement. Many people would not have noticed had they run over the weekend with Devine then hit the readership with the lunch story say Monday.
However, their decision to give prominence to what is clearly a lesser story has backfired and caused suspicion amongst people who ordinarily wouldn't have noticed anything.
Someone used the phrase lately that the elastic limit has been breached and the anti-SNP agenda is having a negative effect.
That may be premature - but it is getting close to that point.
Some people may not like or even care about the SNP or Alex Salmond. However if the media begin to print and broadcast stories that are palpably untrue then these people will smell a rat.
A con only works if it is subtle and believeble - take things too far and the conman will be found all too quickly.
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18. Brownedov
"A modern prefab would be as equally easy to place on brownfield sites in towns and cities as it would be on greenfield sites elsewhere, and orders of magnitude more cost-effective."
Very true.
More than that, modern prefab/modular housing is often very contemporary in both spec and design. Done right, they could become very desireable, sustainable properties.
Done at the right scale, it could give us a possible industry, perhaps including export potential.
Integrated with proper planning and micro-renewable initiatives, it could lead us neatly into the right sort of policy that benefits citizen, community, nation and environment without straining.
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30. curley_bill
"Sorry to reheat old stovies"
Lol!
:)
Mmmmm, stovies.............
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32. rochcarlie
A bit harsh on both sides.
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30. curley_bill
"They seemed to be turning it into a saga of Biblical proportions but now it has evaporated like mist in the morning."
Like almost all of this stuff that is pure political frothings at the mouth devoid of substance. And that SHOWS that it is not valid criticism of a government deserving of such but mere lashing out with a motivation of doing damage.
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28. Brownedov
"the details of the TNS Scotland poll"
Thanks for that.
I've posted the regional data on the TNS thread on UK Polling Report - which is the only place we might get a nice geeky discussion of it!
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Perhaps Brian could ask Mr Mundell what he has lined up for his next employment.
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rochcarlie, "ranting, tub thumping, Mr Angry's", ha ha well it's just as funny as you can get. you get angry at me. ha ha. well still no sign of a snp leader on the bbc relating to the next general election well i see unionist every other hour for the last few months on the bbc news channel. well the bbc in scotland are clearly conspiring if even on a unofficial level with the labour party in Scotland. and your mad at me ha ha ha
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I am repeating this remark I made on the last blog as it was taken down by the moderators and only reinstated today. I would add that around five years ago when the Herald did a similar wobble (but not quite so infantile )a campaign which contacted the proprietors brought a team over from US to investigate and a marked improvement in the Herald's coverage resulted. Quite the worst aspect of the Herald's present standards is the insult to the intelligence of its readership.
I was out in the streets on Saturday. Two of my colleagues on the work day have just stopped buying the Herald. That follows another one last week. I am reliably informed (the information comes from a person that works for the Sun, so how reliable that might be I'm not sure) that the Herald is dropping in circulation at the rate of around 400 to 500 per week. At that rate it will soon beat the Scotsman to a circulation of less than 40,000. It was within reach of 100,000 when it was a decent paper less than ten years ago.
I wonder what its American owners at Gannett Corporation think of that. Write and tell them what you think of the destruction of the Scottish national icon they own. They are very touchy about their reputation with respected pulications.
Gannetts last two MDs till this present one were inordinately proud of their Scottish antecedents. All the contact details and a lot of infromation about Gannett is readily available on the net.
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#40 oldnat
You're welcome. I posted the URL on the UKPR thread at the same time, but I think AW must be having a night off as it's still awaiting moderation.
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#36 mrbfaethedee
"Done at the right scale, it could give us a possible industry, perhaps including export potential."
Quite so. I can't see the UK government allowing English councils to be major buyers, whichever party "wins" the UK general election, but the other home nations could well be interested and the rest of the EU is less resistant to sensible social housing policies than the main two right wing parties who are the potential winners.
Done properly, there is no reason why well-contructed and cost-effective modular units should only aim for the "low" end of the market. They could compete in "middle class" areas too.
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Ask regional Scottish labour party how many houses could we build for Scots if we spent Scotland's share of Trident's replacement on "Houses for Scots?"
Ask David Mundell if he puts Scotland before the UK?
C Mck
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22. JRMacClure
Choices is what budgets are about. Free school meals for middle class parents or Houses for the homeless? Lower prescriptions for the middle classes or houses for the homeless.
those are real choices.
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# 6
Sorry, just tuned in. Prefabs not last long? Since when. They had to pull down the post-war prefabs from under the feet of residents in the 1970s - to build more costly houses. Prefab owners loved them. Apparently.
And Brian - since when did things not being easy become a requisite for government? Our banks remember? We should decide how much lending is opened up. It is clear Darling and Brown will not move to influence the executives in our banks to ease lending restrictions and so the economic - hence social situation will deteriorate further during 2010/11.
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On the TNS poll, I (and others) have declared doubts on their methodology - but it hasn't changed over the last 5 years. How accurate the figures are - who knows - but the changes since the 2005 poll immediately prior to the Westminster election are
Lab,-3% : LD, -3%
SNP, 3% : Con, 4%
Not huge changes but in the direction that we could all have guessed!
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#42 tamO
There was a subject to discuss, housing.
That could have been interesting, but some folk bore sensible people away from places like this, and you end up with a handful of obsessives, exchanging their predictable, tedious, but irrelevant stuff, between themselves.
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#47 Labour troll.
It's free prescriptions for ILL PEOPLE!
If they can afford to pay then they also pay tax and national insurance and have already paid for the medicine without having being ripped of again. Unlike the typical labour voter in glasgow. liverpool, newcastle and inner london who doesn't.
Also the cost of administration was more than the return on charges. Scrapping charges saved money. Just like the tax credits system or the child support agency. Binning them would leave everybody with more money. A good result.
We don't need more houses. There are plenty standing empty. If the government didn't help drive children out of their homes and encourage couples to split up we could have at leas 25% fewer right now.
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47 northhighlander, well you think prescriptions charges are just a issue for the middle class you must be that to think that. and please would you stand outside a Chemists in glasgow with your union jack and tell working people that. please do it please.
please note 24 rochcarlie ask Glasgow city council group how many house that had nothing wrong with them
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45. Brownedov
"Done properly, there is no reason why well-contructed and cost-effective modular units should only aim for the "low" end of the market. They could compete in "middle class" areas too."
It seems an obvious route to consider.
I find it difficult to imagine that advisors haven't brought it up if no politician has thought about or come across the idea. Why isn't it being at least aired?
I'm a wee bit confused.
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51. At 10:01pm on 09 Feb 2010, Graves2002 wrote:
#47 Labour troll.
How unkind - while north highlander might (in some people's view) be a troll, he is more of the pan-Unionist variety rather than Labour-specific. So, accepting this, let's deal with his 'choices'.
"Choices is what budgets are about". (incorrectly he thunders):
Labour choice - free school meals or GARL
Tory choice - inheritance tax or NHS funding.
Choice is what politics is about - and my choice is the SNP.
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51. Graves2002
"If the government didn't help drive children out of their homes and encourage couples to split up"
???
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Housing
It has to be remembered that there was a large population shift from the East Coast and the Highlands to West and Central Scotland in the 19th and 20th centuries, for good economic reasons.
Now for good economic reasons there is a shift back to the East Coast and the North.
Housing does have to be prioritised to the areas with rising rather than declining population.
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51. Graves2002
"Just like the tax credits system or the child support agency. Binning them would leave everybody with more money"
I assume you mean 'replacing', rather than 'Binning'?
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47. northhighlander
"Free school meals for middle class parents or Houses for the homeless? Lower prescriptions for the middle classes or houses for the homeless."
So the free school meals and lower price prescriptions ONLY go to the middle class?
There is an income test and if you NEED these things you are barred from receiving them? Ahem. I don't think so. Instead, that is a typical excuse for denying that these things are needed. There were two years when my daughter was in school when I was unemployed and was glad that even in the US such things as free lunches are available.
Taking food out of the mouths of weans and prescriptions away from ill people who can't afford them may be your idea of an equitable society, NH, but it isn't mine.
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Apparently there are some concerns about Lord Ashcroft's donations to the Tory Party
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/feb/09/lord-ashcroft-conservatives-tax
See what happens when you don't do things openly via a £6.95 curry night?
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#53 mrbfaethedee
"It seems an obvious route to consider ... I'm a wee bit confused."
So am I, but then neither of us are politicians! Desperately trying to be fair, I do realise that to do it properly would require some seed money in the form of R&D. Perhaps that's the problem? Whether so or no, the benefits would so heavily outweigh the costs that to us mortals the lack of progress really does seem daft.
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60. Brownedov
"Desperately trying to be fair, I do realise that to do it properly would require some seed money in the form of R&D. Perhaps that's the problem?"
It may be that simple, and if there is no contractor currently offering the 'product' it means house building strategy is detemined by picking over a menu of existing standard house types because that's what's there. Not good enough really.
You're right - we're not politicians :)
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59. oldnat
"Apparently there are some concerns about Lord Ashcroft's donations to the Tory Party"
You don't say! ;)
What do you think?
* Tories sort it out & make it palatable to the UK voters before GE, and say 'see! class war mudslinging by labour!'
* Goes from bad to worse in time for election, labour rubs hands and blitzes media with tories = ashcroft
* never becomes much of an issue except for political wonks and voyeurs ;)
* something completely different...
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#53
Volume house building companies have no incentive to build different. The mediocre stuff they can sell, and more imaginative housing which can be seen in Europe, in Holland or Scandinavia, may not be initially popular with buyers unfamiliar with the new.
New private housing today is much the same as it was decades ago, but contrast with commercial buildings i.e. offices, where you can see a significant development in design and materials.
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im a new lad on here.On the subject of housing in rural areas ,no more second homes,would be a start,also a revue of the utterly ridiculous and totally obscene land ownership system.Quite honestly how we, in scotland can hope to move forward as a nation while we still have most of our country owned by such a tiny minority (most of whom dont even live here)who seem to throw vast sums of money at pheasants, while there are perfectly good plots and buildings crying out for development.I am slightly dissapointed with salmond and co. that these matters have yet to be debated fully,Labour couldnt care less about this and the tories will merely care for the tweed wearin toffs who only value the land by what they can kill on it.Its a shockin state of affairs
ps well done online ed newsnets a breath of fresh air
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56. oldnat
"Housing does have to be prioritised to the areas with rising rather than declining population."
Very true.
I think we could do with population redistribution though, managed if neccessary.
Perhaps if business, industries & homes got reduced tarrifs on energy based on proximity to the point of generation, we could redistribute the population a little more given the locations of some of the areas suitable for renewables generation.
With that, more micro-renewables, better telecomms infrastructure and (hopefully sometime soon) an electric fuel economy (at least in part), perhaps we could start to tackle some of the perceived rural deficit.
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59. oldnat
"See what happens when you don't do things openly via a £6.95 curry night?"
But The Herald and The Scotsman assured us that a £6.95 curry night is immoral and "buying access to the FM"--so it must be. And Ashcroft giving millions of £s to the Tories while sheltering his riches outwith the country can't possibly be in the same league.
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186 (from previous thread) Oldnat ... With apologies to those wishing to discuss a prefab sprout, and those who spout prefabricated views ...
I'm far beyond the point at which I realised just how much I don't know; sadly, many on here have not reached that point and see fit to burden the rest of us with their received wisdom, which all too often becomes a rehash of identical points already made 50 times ...
Anyway, further responses below ...
"The_Concept_Of_Mind" itself sounds like a rhetorical device. It carries with it a certain resonance of intellectual superiority over the common herd. :-)
TCOM: A picosecond's Googling will (I fondly imagine) reveal the origins of my assumed identity, which I chose specifically to pay homage to a famous debunker; I'm very much with you, insofar as we agree that language must be used carefully (with terms of reference, definitions and a taxonomy agreed and so on) ...
I think it intellectually rather lazy to talk of "Nationalism" (or Unionism", or "Internationalism") as single political concepts, if we are going to debate such concepts seriously. They have a use as a shorthand in blog threads, but otherwise they have to be contextualised.
TCOM: I think it intellectually lazy to avoid answering the charge; indeed the lack of engagement suggests an unwillingness to go down that dark road ... I would be delighted to hear your unpicking of the term, bringing out the variation in meaning with context (indeed you have already posted most eloquently on the matter, in a dim and distant thread) but I suspect the conclusion will be the same - in every context the N - word reduces (upon boiling, or even gentle simmering) to something akin to the R - word ...
In political discussions, unidimensional constructs are seldom of great use.
TCOM: In any discussion, including many on here, unidimensionality is restricting; however, the moment you step away from it a great vortex opens that rapidly disgorges the 7 billion related topics and contexts that turn a simple argument into a thick thesis; witness a discussion on, say, crime - in a trice here comes poverty, alcohol abuse/pricing, education, housing and policing ... What can a poor boy do ('cept to play for Rock 'n Roll bands) ??? ...
Ed Iglehart - who posted here before your time - summarised this well with his oft repeated aphorism "One dimensional politics is only for those who find the concept of a flat Earth too complex to comprehend".
TCOM: I confess to finding the concept of a flat earth (and a finite universe) very hard to understand, so it would appear inevitable that I can cope only with one dimension (at any one time of course - oops, that's two ...) ...
I hope you don't doubt my willingness to engage in serious discussion (despite frequent lapses into the Baroque I do try to make sense, really ...) ...
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66. JRMacClure
PS. Ugh. Over-enthusiastic posting. I don't know, obviously, how much Ashcroft has given the Tories, but I'm assuming it wasn't a measly £10,000 that Salmond raised.
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45. Browndov. The Germans are doing this very well. Google "fertighaus'
for many examples.
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Housing! The first house that I remember living in was a prefab bungallow with steel window frames and asbestos (yes) walls and for the benefit of the Brig my eldest bro had a model steam engine fueled by meths.
Housing has always been a problem as that is the nature of the capitalist system as they require a surplus of workers to satisfy a cheap workforce to increase their profits. Labour's 'secret plan' to lure migrants
Look back to the 50-60's when large landowners destroyed houses on their lands to avoid the government tax rates these now roofless buildings were bought by second home prospectors who subsequently got a government grant to reinstate them into a habitable dwelling subsidised yet again by the taxpayer.
Who has had to pick up the tabs, the taxpayer by making up the reduced revenue from the rich landowner in the first instance and then the taxpayer has had to pay again to reinstate that building costing the taxpayer yet again.
Re brownfield sites these will have to be cleaned up to a far greater inspection/cost than commercial development and those real estate proprietors will take money but object to paying it out. What jobs are going to be created for these brownfield occupiers? The industrial revolution has ended as has the need for a large workforce crammed into a small space to fuel that demand.
Before building houses ad infinitum one has to consider what work and the relevant workforce to fuel those prospective jobs and only then will the horse be in front of the cart rather than what seems to happen now head scratching.
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63. rochcarlie
I agree with you regarding the quality of housing stock rochcarlie.
If the building sector have gotten comfy with us 'wanting what we get', then it lies to government to ensure that housing regulations are brought up to the standard we seek, and enforced. It is for the government to set specific constraints on the tenders for house building programs, so that they get the sort of housing they want. Businesses in the sector will have to decide whether to change and offer different products that are required, or get out of that part of the business.
It's that government end of the equation being missing that's bugging me.
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Will This Man Keep a Roof Over his Head?
If you don't cringe...
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Referenda a plenty! The recession must be over! Labour offering AV referendum how will the Gray man respond, negatively no doubt as the people of Scotland have other things on their 'feeble' minds speaks for himself, as usual nothing to offer and can't divide either.
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"51. At 10:01pm on 09 Feb 2010, Graves2002 wrote:
Unlike the typical labour voter in glasgow. liverpool, newcastle and inner london who doesn't."
Please explain what you mean here. Typical comment that is one of the reasons the SNP cannot make inroads into Glasgow when idiotic comments like this are made. How about inner Edinburgh, Aberdeen and Inverness while you are at it.
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#64 What about a certain landowner who has a relative who donates heavily to the SNP, and doesn't want the peasants anywhere near her land?
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70. cynicalHighlander:
I take it you mean that there is no point in building houses if there is little employment in the area? Good point.
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One other point to note on housing expansion, something East Kilbride has suffered from in recent years, most of it private. Infrastructure. There is a limit to sewage and other essentials, something that councils tend to overlook.
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66. JRMacClure:
Going to be cynical here (got a stinking cold so can't help it). if Lord Ashcroft were to offer the SNP millions, what would your view be then?
Personally, I think all political parties should be funded solely by member subscriptions. Then we could see what parties are best eqipped to handle the economy.
But no party, bar an extreme socialist one, is ever likely to accept such a policy.
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63. rochcarlie:
I've got an ex-council 4 bed house that is about 40 ish years old, and it's far more solid than some of the new houses on the market these days. Unless you are willing to pay around the 200k+ mark you tend to get a bog standard house.
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I noticed a very strained looking MP on the front of Metro today. Must be from carrying all that shelving........
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14. rochcarlie:
If we are going to use prefabs, then at least build them here. As someone else has pointed out, a good design could have excellent export opportunities. It would also help the manufacturing industry and keep skills in Scotland.
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67. The_Concept_Of_Mind
"I hope you don't doubt my willingness to engage in serious discussion"
No - but it's get a bit like the start of a new session. Another class who ask the same old questions that one has patiently been explaining for the last 30 years. Sigh. But what can a teacher do, but start all over again. :-)
I'm happy to engage in that serious discussion as long as we share the fundamental principles of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights adopted by the UN in 1966. Without that common belief system, no debate is worth while.
For the purposes of this discussion, the two broad strands which are potentially in conflict - and, therefore, germane to this political context - are
A. Philosophies based on community/nation/people (and other words of that kind - regardless of which State they are in) are reflected in
"Part 1 : Article 1 : 1. All peoples have the right of self-determination. By virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development."
B. Philosophies based on the state (regardless of which communities/nations/peoples are contained within it) which are reflected in the Westphalian system of territoriality.
Let's get rid of the "R" word straight away. Republicanism is often associated with movements which hope to bring about significant change in political structures. It is not, however, a universal component of such movements.
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#47
We already know what the Labour Party choices are.
It's cheap alcohol for the poor
Retention of the Council Tax to penalise the old, the poorly paid and the sick
PFI Schools and Hospitals which will destroy the Scottish Government's budgets for the next forty years.
Did I hear you mention the SIX council houses Labour built in Scotland in EIGHT years?
Away with you, you eejit.
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72. JRMacClure
I only make a ref to bars in #73 and it is kept under wraps, one can only laugh at the the mods rules of engagement. (stupid)
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67. The_Concept_Of_Mind
On the assumption that you accept Human Rights - how is a community/nation etc defined and who defines it?
Those who angst about this always seem desperate for some objective definition of what determines "membership" of the group. This is particularly true of those external to the situation, who simply don't understand that others can have a wish to have a political structure appropriate to the group. You also find the same need for definition among those who feel that their group is superior to others and look for objective measures to be exclusive - how to keep others out.
The alternative tradition (usually described as civic nationalism) is inclusive and stems from Mazzini's philosophical approach in 19th century Italy. Having spent years trying to understand why he and other Italians felt "Italian". He examined language, "culture", religion, ethnicity, geography but none of these accurately described the situation.
His eventual conclusion was that "the nation consists of those who feel themselves to belong to it". I have never found a more appropriate explanation - nor needed to find one. It's a perfect description of Scots nationalism. While the SNP draft constitution is fairly legalistic, it essentially comes down to that. Everyone who is resident can have citizenship. Those who have close family links, and want to be part of the Scots community can have citizenship. Those who want to come and live here and become part of this society can have citizenship.
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70. cynicalHighlander
"What jobs are going to be created for these brownfield occupiers?"
A fair question cynicalhighlander, but not all cases require it to be answered. If, for example, it is housing stock that will be used by people coming from overcrowded or substandard social housing, or overpriced private sector stock - there is no need for extra job creation.
" The industrial revolution has ended as has the need for a large workforce crammed into a small space to fuel that demand."
True, but the population is not gaseous and won't just drift back to fill the gaps on its own. And if modular/prefab housing stock is an effective method of building new housing stock, why can't it be used to build housing at any required density (or lack thereof) - it doesn't have to be used to cram more people into tight spaces.
I share your opinion (if i read you correctly) that our current population clustering is probably not required, but I don't think that not building new housing stock is going to alter it.
"Before building houses ad infinitum one has to consider what work and the relevant workforce to fuel those prospective jobs and only then will the horse be in front of the cart rather than what seems to happen now head scratching."
As I said it doesn't have to be building for new populations, and so doesn't neccesitate new jobs. Housing stock will continue to need to be built, I'd rather it was done with more efficient materials and processes.
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75. enneffess
"Going to be cynical here (got a stinking cold so can't help it). if Lord Ashcroft were to offer the SNP millions, what would your view be then?
Personally, I think all political parties should be funded solely by member subscriptions. Then we could see what parties are best eqipped to handle the economy.
But no party, bar an extreme socialist one, is ever likely to accept such a policy."
My point was less what he may or may not have donated than the hypocrisy involved. I have no problem with the man donating to a political party he supports, and I take it that in England, unlike in Scotland, someone with a foreign domicile can legally contribute.
The other point you raise is a good one.
Who should be able to donate to a political party is a good question. Should foreigners be able to? (I'd love to, I assure you) How about foreign investors through a domestic corporation which they have partial ownership in? (a delicate debate in the US at the moment) How about citizens who claim foreign domicile, as do both Ashcroft (apparently) and Sean Connery, I believe, although Mr. Connery is preventing from donating form what I understand. Again, my problem is less the fact than an apparent hypocrisy. If this happened in Scotland, it would be a major scandal. Perhaps it should be, perhaps not.
I absolutely agree that all political contributions should be done openly and on record.
No, I wouldn't have a different reaction if it were SNP donations but you can BET the media here would be on it. In that case, since it would clearly be unlawful, they should be.
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64. banksodon
"who seem to throw vast sums of money at pheasants,"
I wish they'd throw some to the peasants ;)
Welcome banksodon!
I agree with you, land ownership needs to be addressed properly for an independent Scotland. The current cost, distribution and use is ridiculous.
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This is an interesting story
"SNP city councillor defects to LibDems"
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/politics/snp-city-councillor-defects-to-libdems-1.1005277
Not so much for the story, but in the way that the Herald plays it very low key, and does not use it to mount a fuull scale attack on the SNP.
Odd? I don't think so. The consultation on public notices being placed in the dead tree press ends on Friday. At a guess, the Government has already tipped the wink to the newspaper publishers that they are minded to reject the proposal. They were over a barrel. Unfortunate, but that's practical politics.
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80. mrbfaethedee
To move people from an overpopulated to one which doesn't have that problem is only shifting that problem to another area with the potential of creating or excaserbating a potential problem. One cant keep shifting the same problem around the coutryside without addressing the basic problem i.e. sustainable/necessary work.
Population is/has serious implications in how Scotland/UK can survive for the log term and can/will become rather immotive as its implications go way beyond this speck in the global picture.
The other points I will add are that icreasing housing one then has to consider existing/new infrastructure including water/sewage often forgotten supply/availability, transport/public and the basic necessities of life like education, amenities and food.
Building houses doesn't just occupy that land it stands on its ends up with all the basic add ons which the developer has no interest in, unable to cream in the the readies.
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83. oldnat
Yapping Yousaf has been yapping about it for a day or two as I see it, it shows up those who are in politics for themselves only and their country is a side show.
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83. oldnat
"The consultation on public notices being placed in the dead tree press ends on Friday. At a guess, the Government has already tipped the wink to the newspaper publishers that they are minded to reject the proposal. They were over a barrel. Unfortunate, but that's practical politics."
Well, if out of it the SNP manages to pressure certain dead-tree press to a more reasonable attitude in the future maybe good will come out of it. Mindless, frothing attacks just might resurrect the issue. Practical politics does work both ways.
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83. At 00:50am on 10 Feb 2010, oldnat wrote:
This is an interesting story
"SNP city councillor defects to LibDems"
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/politics/snp-city-councillor-defects-to-libdems-1.1005277
Not so much for the story, but in the way that the Herald plays it very low key, and does not use it to mount a fuull scale attack on the SNP.
Odd? I don't think so. The consultation on public notices being placed in the dead tree press ends on Friday. At a guess, the Government has already tipped the wink to the newspaper publishers that they are minded to reject the proposal. They were over a barrel. Unfortunate, but that's practical politics.
Maybe, maybe not - The Herald have had so many attacks on the SNP this last week that not every story can be given prominence and this is not a defection to Labour.
The BBC are leading with yet another Labour press release that completely ignores the mess that London Labour have made of the economy.
It is difficult to imagine the media getting any more partisan - I hope the SNP do not cave in over public notices - a compromise is I believe the best solution, and not because of blackmail.
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"LABOUR BUILT SIX COUNCIL HOUSES IN EIGHT YEARS".
Just wonder who they were allocated to??
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Speaking of roofs over heads , has anyone read this article in the Times?
"Nine peers cleared over expenses claims"
Troughs and piggies.
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I know some had reservations about the Caledonian Mercury.
For me ,the article by Hamish McDonnell on " lunchexaggeratedgate" has undermined my hope for its success using fair and rational reporting.
He has the cheek to describe journalist " tenacity" in following a yawn inducing (and probably booby trapped) tale.
If the booby trap goes off in the face of the journalists and Labour MSPs will we see a great retraction?
Rhetorical question!
Its a bit like the kids in school muttering " Sorry ,right"by way of apology.
That which is printed as headlines and found wanting should have headline retraction.
That which is broadcast and found wanting should have a broadcast retraction.
What was the answer to dividing by .....?
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House ! northhighlander appears ! The terrible trio are all here, the Union rallies its finest against the hordes of Cybernats. Or was that Ultranats ? Or Cyberultranats ? Or Ultracybernats ? I can never remember what or who Eck has told me to pretend to be today.
Anyway, today's Northern British NuLab Press Releases masquerading as News Stories on the "National" Broadcaster.
From this website
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/8507604.stm
Full marks to Gary on GMS this morning for giving Northern British NuLab Justice Spokesman (Shouldn't that be spokesperson. Has somebody told Ms Harman ?) Richard Baker a hard time as to why, when they were The Scottish "Executive", the then Justice Minister Hugh Henry derided the concept of minumum sentencing for carrying a knife ? I Listened hard and don't think that he actually got an answer beyond "It is all the fault of the SNP".
Serious Point: Knife crime is a problem. Community Sentencing for carrying a knife is not on. Carry a knife and you have intent to use it. A custodial sentence is a must.
However, trying to make political capital out of personal tradgedy is not on.
Put this amendment before the Elected Representatives of the Scottish People and achieve a consensus on a way forward, which I am sure that Mr Baker and Northern British NuLab may find is actually in tune with their new-found support of Custodial Sentencing for carrying a knife.
And now, the BBC Radio Northern Britain Phone in this morning is on....This subject.
From this website
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/8506715.stm
Now, I saw this at some ungodly hour this morning on Ceefax as
"SNP Assault on Council Services".
Once more, a Northern British NuLab Press release masquerading as a news story. This one at the very top of the Scottish Politics Pages.
There are two stories here.
First, that the claim is wrong. The Scottish Budget has been cut by £814 MILLION. Not by the Scottish Government but by Westminister (Current Occupiers - erm.....NuLab)
Secondly. that the Northern British Branch of the BBC are again passing Party Political Statements from NuLab as Hard News.
Fascinating that there are no bylines on any of these stories. Are they simply supplied by the Commissar sitting in the corner with his blue pen a la "Good Morning Vietnam" ?
The news in Pravda is the truth in Izvestia and anyone watching "Russia Today" on Satellite or Freeview will be profoundly disturbed by its similarity to Northern Britain's BBC.
A few people have pointed out a petition on the UK Government's Website that can be signed if you feel that the Northern British Outpost of the Empire's National Broadcaster may be slightly biased. It can be found at
http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/bbcscotlandfair/
Where 88 people have so far signed up.
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Brian,
Where's Jim Murphy when you need him.
Surely he'll point out to Gordon Brown that any referendum on the voting system at this time is just an unnecessary and expensive distraction from economic recovery.
Is that not his view on any referendum taking place right now, or is it OK for Westminster, but not OK for our too wee too weak country?
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Labour have done so much damage to the economy that they have had to award a contract to run the UK's search and rescue services to a consortium consisting of a Canadian helicopter operator and a French defence electronics company with the finance being provided by the state owned bank RBS. The helicopters will be American
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#91
I would sign the petition, but the remedy it suggests is in my opinion even worse than the current state. Given this governments (UK) track record in commissions and enquiries, any call to set up a commission or enquiry will just give them the tools with which to control the BBC as a whole to their ends.
Now if the petition said sack every political reporter, editor and news reader. Sack everyone associated with GMS and bar anyone with political party memberships from presenting, scripting or editing factual or opinion based programming then I would sign it in a second.
John
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84. cynicalHighlander
"To move people from an overpopulated to one which doesn't have that problem is only shifting that problem to another area with the potential of creating or excaserbating a potential problem. One cant keep shifting the same problem around the coutryside without addressing the basic problem i.e. sustainable/necessary work."
I'm not for a moment suggesting that we simply decant people from an overpopulated into a new area which then becomes overpopulated. I can't see where I've posted something suggesting that we should.
I'm also not suggesting that it should be done in the absence of having sufficient jobs in the vicinity of any new development in the 'countryside' - we wouldn't want an influx of unemployed oiks disturbing the pastoral bliss of rural life would we ;)
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84. cynicalHighlander
"Population is/has serious implications in how Scotland/UK can survive for the log term and can/will become rather immotive as its implications go way beyond this speck in the global picture."
I agree, it's a big issue locally and globally. Care to share any specific thoughts on it and how it affects housing in Scotland right now?
"The other points I will add are that icreasing housing one then has to consider existing/new infrastructure including water/sewage often forgotten supply/availability, transport/public and the basic necessities of life like education, amenities and food."
I agree, I think I hinted as much in earlier posts (re: fuel and energy) that there is a bigger picture of community and sustainability, I'm not going to go through each one given that the context is housing. But yes, all these things you mention would clearly have to be in place/extendended/implemented depending on the start point.
I'm not clear what your position is on this, are you saying that we shouldn't expand our population into more rural areas because of the impact of people and new infrastructure, or just that the infrastructure (&jobs) isn't there at present?
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84. cynicalHighlander
"
Building houses doesn't just occupy that land it stands on its ends up with all the basic add ons which the developer has no interest in, unable to cream in the the readies."
Sorry, I'm not sure I undestand what you're getting at. Stuff developers do poorly because they don't care once they've made their money?
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oh how i wish the labour party would just put out a press release about the GG&C health board story in Clydebank then we might just get to hear about the biggest story of the year so far.
the above must be the reason for the national broadcaster's refusal to even admit that this story is happening.
do you know any one that requires respite care or end of life treatment that can afford £546 a week or £28,392 a year to "rent a bed"
if it gets the go ahead in Clydebank it will become the norm all over Scotland
The Hospice movement needs our support now!
Sid
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#129 JRMacClure on last post... i tried to read your link about the port of Dover being sold and for some reason the software on my work pc told me i couldn't access the link as the site was classed as 'Tasteless' ! Whatever does it mean ?
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#93 Wee-Scamp ...as if that's not bad enough the MOD were trying to sell off defense training to private firms for a while but Ive not heard anything from that proposal for a while. Why are Labour and the Tories so obsessed with selling off everything and then having no responsibility ? Do they see taxpayers as bottomless wallets ?
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#72 JRMacClure
"Will This Man Keep a Roof Over his Head?"
Yes, and quite possibly paid for by the taxpayer.
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"Labour in a guddle over independence referendum"
http://politics.caledonianmercury.com/2010/02/10/labour-in-a-guddle-over-independence-referendum/
Pete Wishart made good points on this in the HoC debate yesterday (I was so bored i watched all of the AV debate!)
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Oh dear! MoD under fire over use of more than 100 pigs in explosive tests in Wiltshire. They could have made savings for themselves and us. They could have carried them out on more than 100 troughers in London.
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102. oldnat, how long do you think before we have a statement from "toenails"* Murphy on this irritating distraction?
* It's a good nickname, why should Nick Robinson be the only one kept in the dark.
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102 press release you will see that the pro labour bbc in Scotland only carry labour press release and stories. they don't think this is of news note http://politics.caledonianmercury.com/2010/02/10/labour-in-a-guddle-over-independence-referendum/
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BBC Scotland continue with their unacceptable coverage of Scottish politics. Headlining another Labour claim without scrutiny (Row over council spending figures) and simply presenting it as a row is shoddy journalism, and that's being kind.
The article contains this paragraph:
Labour local government spokesman Michael McMahon, said: "Finance Secretary John Swinney is behaving like the SNP's Mr Bumble, putting local authorities on starvation rations."
In the last issue of Newsnet Scotland we contacted Mr McMahon's office directly and asked for figures to check these Labour claims. We also contacted the finance minister's office to check SNP claims.
The result was clear, councils are receiving an increased share of the budget since the SNP came to power than that when Labour left office - both set of figures confirmed this.
The state broadcaster will have access to the same figures that Newsnet Scotland were able to obtain, why they do not simply state the facts and end the 'row' is baffling.
On the subject of cuts, well cuts are inevitable if the grant from London reduces - which it will, the increased share is of a shrinking pot. Add to that the effects of having to accelerate spending [supported by Labour] in some areas and the problem is compounded
It is at best disingenuous of the state broadcaster to omit the facts that would serve to undermine Labour claims and their own 'row' article. At worst it is a deliberate attempt at suppressing information that would inform Scottish voters and alert them to Labour's duplicity.
Also:
Labour's automatic jail term for knife carrying is being pushed by the BBC and others. However, like their caffiene calls (powers reserved to Westminster) there is a hidden aspect of the Labour policy that destroys it.
Labour are allowing prosecutors the power to determine whether or not to press for a jail term.
In other words - Labour's knife policy contains no automatic jail term for knife carriers.
Stories like this involving the SNP have previously been presented as 'flagship' policies in disarray.
We won't see these headlines from any Scottish media outlets.
Politicians are supposed to be policed by the media, but if the media itself shows signs of corruption then who polices them?
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91. Chiefy1724:
The problem is, those convicted of carrying a knife don't always end up in prison.
The case I know of, the now convicted individual stabbed someone, was arrested and released on bail. He then stabbed someone I know in the back of the neck and got off with 4 years for ABH, rather than attempted murder. The first person he stabbed died recently. The convict also has a record for knife crime and was not jailed previously.
Now, people here have said that the Justice Secretary cannot interfere with the courts, fair enough. But they cannot then claim credit for the current "tough penalties" if they are not going to be applied.
As you said, even carrying a knife without a very good reason must, must carry a custodial sentence. Many people carry knives without the intention to use them, but an incident occurs and then the next thing we know someone else has died.
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#105 tamO , Afternoon, that was my whole point.
on the MOD moving search & rescue from Prestwick to Glasgow Airport(on this web site)
Brian Donohoe MP for Ayrshire central finds out the hard way what happens when you represent the Glasgow party in any other part of the country,no matter how close you are or how far away you are from the only part of Scotland that matters! Can't wait to see how BBC Scotland deal with this story or will they just ignore it like NHS GG&C story
Sid
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Can we get a blog on Labour agreeing to referenda in wales and at westminster but not up here?
Blog on the Prestwick Gannet jobs getting shifted and the sheer "rage" the Labour MP is feeling right now perhaps?
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Constitutional referenda. Labour wants one for Wales. Labour wants one for the UK. But, funnily enough, Labour doesn't want one for Scotland. Scotland is just different, somehow, isn't it?
Meanwhile the Scottish parliament is considering legislation to address the scourge of excessive alcohol consumption, but one party refuses to take part in the parliamentary process, and has instead set up its own parallel 'commission', briefed to come up with any policy other than that proposed by the Scottish Government. If the ghost of Donald Dewar could be contacted by some fanciful means, I am pretty sure that he would assume that the Scottish parliament initiative trying to restrict excess drinking would be led by Labour , and that the parallel universe refuseniks would be anti-devolution Tories...but, funnily enough.....
Incidentally, if Labour's main objection to minimum pricing of alcohol is that it will raise profit margins in shops but not contribute to tax revenues (profits are taxed of course, but let's put that to one side), then surely the conclusion is to approve of Scotland setting its own excise duty.
Sorry I haven't commented about council house building and sales, but the sensible stance taken by the current Scottish Government is so plainly obvious that there is really nothing to discuss.
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109. jediirnbru
"Can we get a blog on Labour agreeing to referenda in wales and at westminster but not up here?"
Exactly.There has not been a blog on Scotland's constitutional future from Brian since November 30th.There have been 29 blogs since then on matters of varying importance,but none on the topic of a constitutional referendum.
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#110 Mince and Mealie....
'If the ghost of Donald Dewar could be contacted by some fanciful means'
I called Psychic Sally, and through her Donald said he had torn up his party membership !
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#107
There are some problems with an automatic jail term for carrying a knife:
Many of us still have proper skean dhubhs.
Knives have legitimate uses on farms, gardening, fishing. What happens if you forget to take one out of your pocket?
Knives are also often used in work (eg box cutters in stock rooms). Same problem with above.
Are all sikhs going to be jailed for carrying a knife?
All these things can also be the case if someone gets into a fight outside a pub. The acid test of whether they are "carrying" or not is whether they use it.
Would it be possible to have a law of "looking shifty and carrying a knife"? or "carrying a knife and being the sort of person who might use it"?
I can think of several occasions personally when I have taken a jacket off the peg, and gone into town only to later discover that I have a penknife or leatherman in the pocket (not to mention the time I once got my Skean dhu taken off me as I went into a club (was given it back as I left though)). Should I have been jailed?
John
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"Lib Dems accused of undermining committee convener as End-of-Life bill row escalates."
http://politics.caledonianmercury.com/2010/02/10/lib-dems-accused-of-undermining-committee-convener-as-end-of-life-bill-row-escalates/
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#110 mince and mealie : afternoon , the short answer to your question is NO.
The labour party in Scotland is too busy getting all hot and bothered about a few miles of railway track in Renfrewshire to be bothered about the country's constitution .get your priority's right for goodness sake,and anyway the SOSAS "HIS GREATNESS" JIM MURPHY has forbidden it as it would only be a distraction so away you go and shop a benefit cheat or an expenses cheat .I wonder who we might meet first?
Sid
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I guess if even Hamish at the Cally can produce a balanced piece there is just a glimmer of hope that all the cynicism over the meedja hereabouts may just begin to wane. Now if we had a blog on referenda, or even a sniff that one day we may even get a vote......
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I see the MP for Glasgow South is for starting the count of ballots within 4 hours of the close of polls. Oh, look a passing bandwagon, let's jump on. No thought for Scotland in that. How about the Western Isles, Orkney and Shetland, or even the Highland and Island seats?
That's Labour for you; It only matters what they think is good for them, not what's good for Scotland
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113. john:
I did say unless you have a good reason.
And I don't agree with Sikhs carrying knives at all. Nor do you tend to get neds hanging around farms (well, not always!).
And if someone gets into a fight outside a pub and ends up using a knife, they should be jailed whether they were carrying it legitimately or not.
Skean dubhs are exempt under law as well.
But lives are more important that culture/religion.
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107. enneffess
"As you said, even carrying a knife without a very good reason must, must carry a custodial sentence. Many people carry knives without the intention to use them, but an incident occurs and then the next thing we know someone else has died.
"
As has been pointed out, many people carry knives for a variety of reasons. I take you have never carried a one? Not even fishing or when wearing a kilt? Know any Sikhs?
Making the possession of a knife a crime is a total over-reaction. If the laws for crimes using a knife aren't properly enforced then stiffen those. But jailing every Sikh in Scotland is going overboard.
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Ah, dear Mr. Taylor, don't you want to write a blog post on this? Perhaps you got your hand slapped for the last post you made in a referendum?
Labour in a Guddle Over Independence Referendum
Let me quote just one tiny bit of a surprisingly balanced article:
The only reason Labour say “not now but possibly in the future” is because of the Wendy Alexander “bring it on” debacle. The party is officially keeping its options open because it has no choice. If it said “no referendum, no way, not ever” it would not only be ditching Ms Alexander’s position completely and totally but it would open the party up to accusations of being un-democratic.
The reality is that Labour don’t want a referendum now and they can see no possibility of ever backing one in the future for one simple reason: there is a chance – however slim – that the SNP might win.
Mustn't take the chance that the people might actually take power in Scotland. Anyone who hasn't read the full article should pop over there. (Am I doing a good imitation of dad shouting now, BJ? =) )
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99. Scarymannie
"i tried to read your link about the port of Dover being sold and for some reason the software on my work pc told me i couldn't access the link as the site was classed as 'Tasteless' ! Whatever does it mean ?"
Well, I agree that selling the Port of Dover is tasteless but your software deciding so seems extreme. I have no idea. I'm didn't notice anything objectionable in the site.
Of course, I also thinking selling off the UK gold at what amounted to a loss was tasteless. I'm funny like that.
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118. enneffess
"And if someone gets into a fight outside a pub and ends up using a knife, they should be jailed whether they were carrying it legitimately or not."
Possibly the laws about getting in knife FIGHTS should be stiffened to make jailing mandatory (although if you look at mandatory jailing in the US you might want to re-think that).
Jailing someone because they're on their way fishing (or Sikhs) is just plain silly. For heaven's sake, if I bought a kitchen implement I wouldn't legally be able to take it home!
Do get a grip. Committing a crime with a knife should obviously be punished. HAVING a knife is not and SHOULD NOT be a crime.
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118. enneffess
"And I don't agree with Sikhs carrying knives at all. Nor do you tend to get neds hanging around farms (well, not always!)."
So the law should read "if you're a ned we'll throw you in jail if you have a knife" but we'll leave every one else alone.
But wait, sikhs shouldn't have knives either so if you're a ned or a sikh we'll throw you in jail if you have a knife? Oh, wait, you disagree on protecting culture so now Skean dubhs shouldn't be exempt so many wedding parties and Burns Supper participants (especially Americans!) will end up in jail.
I know that Scotland's jail population has gone up, but I really do think that's excessive. You aren't thinking through what you're saying. You're an intelligent man. Take a deep breath and consider. :)
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As far as I am aware, the Kirpan, or Sikh Dagger, is a symbolic religious weapon and is covered under the Criminal Justice Act 1988 (section 139) and Criminal Justice Act 1996 (section 3 and 4). This allows anyone to carry a blade exceeding the length of 3 inches for religious, cultural or work related reasons. The Criminal Justice Acts and the 2003 Religious Discrimination Act safeguards the right of Sikhs to carry the Kirpan.
I've known two Sikhs, both of whom carried an extremely small knife which would have been virtually impossible to draw without a good deal of undressing, rather than a full Kirpan, thereby fulfilling the tenets of their faith. I also know this because I have just completed my yearly Equality and Diversity Course where this was discussed at length.
I think that the same could probably be argued for a Sgian dubh as part of "Highland" dress, although easier to draw.
If you had NO VALID REASON however, to be carrying a Sgian dubh, or a fishing knife, or a pen-knife, or a gralloching knife, then perhaps the first port of call would be the common sense of an Officer of the Law to a) require surrender of the knife and b)refer the holder to the Procurator Fiscal for further action, at which presumably the holder could argue their case for carrying the knife in front of a member of the judiciary and/or a jury. If it was not possible for them to establish A VALID REASON for carrying the blade, straight sentence.
Example: A gentleman is arrested for carrying a Sgian Dubh whilst in full Highland Dress wending his way back to a hotel in the centre of town after attending a party. He has a valid reason for carrying the blade in that it is part of his cultural heritage and of his dress. He surrenders the blade and is summoned before a court where he explains why he was carrying the blade.
A gentleman is arrested for carrying a Sgian Dubh whilst wearing an evening suit on his way back from the same wedding. He has no intention of using the blade but the blade is not part of his dress or his cultural heritage. He surrenders the blade and is summoned before a court where he explains why he was carrying the blade.
A gentleman is arrested for carrying a Sgian Dubh and can not explain to the Officer why he is carrying the blade. He is not in Highland Dress and has not been at a Gathering where a Sgian dubh may have been present as part of Highland Dress. He surrenders the blade and is summoned before a court where he explains why he was carrying the blade.
If any of the above can not demonstrate a valid reason why they were carrying the blade, six months, which is of course open to the usual appeal process before the Law.
Of course, the easiest thing is to remember that the Sgian dubh is also a "symbolic" weapon that has no use other than gralloching Haggis on Burns Night and that its quite sensible to use a "cosmetic" version which is simply the hilt in the scabbard with the blade removed.
Too easy ?
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#118
I know from experience that it takes only 1 side to start a fight (or more accurately to create a disturbance). It has happenned twice to me. both times when I was staying in a hostel in Kent, and was heading back from the pub. Both times our group of about 5 or 6 was ambushed and chased by large gangs of local youths. In one case they were carrying baseball bats. So it is possible for innocent people to get caught up in a disturbance. I should say that in both cases I ran away, but in one of the cases I had to go back and drag a friend out of the disturbance who was on the ground being kicked. Had the police arrive at any point, I'm fairly sure that I would have been stopped and searched, despite not haveing thrown a punch, or aimed a kick.
John
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124. Chiefy1724
Oh, for heaven's sake, Chiefly, do you even consider how much court time and money it would waste for every male member of every wedding party who wears Highland dress to be dragged needlessly to court???
Do you REALLY think the courts don't have something better to spend their time one!
And who decides what is a GOOD reason? Laws need to be clear and readily interpreted.
If you think mandatory sentencing for "knife crime" is a good idea then campaign for it although you might want to look at the parties you crawling into bed with. But arresting everyone carrying a knife home from a shop or everyone on their way fishing or everyone in Highland dress is just absurd.
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#124
Yes too simple: how about (true until the last part)
I visit my sister (who is a vet). We go into town in her car and it starts raining. I grab her wax jacket out the car, which has a load of stuff in the pockets. I get stopped by the police, and they discover the knife that she uses for cutting baler twine on the farm. I cannot explain the reason for the knife. Should I get jailed?
John
ps. Don't forget any law will not just apply to city centres, but everywhere. Some of the most violent areas are in small market towns or villages.
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#121 JR I think its just the newsoftheworld site in itself that it found tasteless which is probably correct since it belongs to the stable of Murdoch.
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128. Scarymannie
"I think its just the newsoftheworld site in itself that it found tasteless which is probably correct since it belongs to the stable of Murdoch."
I can't argue with that!
Any time I link to it I feel I should go take a shower.
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126. JRMacClure
"But arresting everyone carrying a knife home from a shop or everyone on their way fishing or everyone in Highland dress is just absurd.
"
PS.
And let us be clear, if carrying a knife AT ALL is a crime, then carrying a knife in these situations is a crime. You can't say it's a crime "unless you have a good reason" with good reason undefined.
If carrying a knife is a crime then EVERYONE who carries one has to be arrested. Consider the consequences. Consider what has happened in the US with mandatory sentences for "drug crimes" and the fact that we have near the highest jail rate in the world--mostly people who were doing nothing that would hurt anyone except possibly themselves.
There is something called the law of unintended consequences that you need to consider. "Any intervention in a complex system may or may not have the intended result, but will inevitably create unanticipated and often undesirable outcomes".
What outcomes would occur in addition to making it possible to arrest "neds"? I suspect quite a lot of them and many of them you wouldn't much like.
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Interesting debates in the Chamber this afternoon on Local Govt Finance and the Unionist stitch up of Margo's Bill.
Will Brian post on these? Probably not. However, Labour were interesting. Wanted more money given to LAs despite their not having made a single amendment on the Budget discussions which would have allowed that. They then voted FOR!
As always, apart from Malcolm Chisholm (who made reasoned points), they are embarrassingly bad.
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By the way, I wanted to comment on the Caledonia Mercury. I was pretty skeptical at first because of the history of the journalists involved, several of whom have earned reputations as super-brits whilst working at more traditional publications.
I have been impressed by the fact that in their coverage they seem to be free (I tend to credit Mr. Stewart Kirkpatrick) of any fixed bias. I haven't agreed with everything they said, but at no point have I felt that any particular party was above coverage for their position either. The SNP wasn't happy yesterday but Labour and the LibDebs are even less happy today (a Labourite PR man even coming out to whinge much to my amusement).
I recommend giving The Scotsmand and The Herald and the R&J a pass and read some actual news coverage over there.
I reserve the right to change my mind if they become biased and I still don't quite trust Hamish Macdonald, but so far I give them a high grade for their effort.
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132. JRMacClure
"LibDebs"
PS I'm not sure the LibDems would qualify as what are referred to as "debs" in the US. (Upper class girls being introduced to "society") Is the term used on your side of the pond? The typo made me chuckle though.
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While we're talking about jailing folks my flabber was well and truly gasted at the latest outburst from Dour Iain as per the lead item on Beebs Scottish news page. If I understand his stance it seems that any MP representing a constituent with an expression of mitigating circumstances before sentencing, has been so absurdly out of order that he or she should resign. Presumably there is an element of said Dour Iain's constituents who may at some stage need such a letter of representation from their elected member, and as that will not be forthcoming may look for an alternative box to cross come elction time.
Oh, tomorrow's FMQs is shaping up to be such fun.
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JRMacClure re 132
Do you think that Macdonell would have described a politician of any other party as "smug"
Are politicians only smug if they are members of the SNP. Discuss.
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and of course the headline screams 'Minister Intervenes in Fraud Case' which is much more exciting than 'MSP carries out duty in constituency'. Just heard the inimitable Glenn's report on Newsdrive, which did at least give air to the comments of said minister, before closing with Dour Iain's tirade. Hm, gaun yersel Elmer
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Incoming!!!!!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/8509157.stm
Hearald healines tomorrow no worries!
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Labour really do have a death wish. According to Elmer Fudd, as I live in Gordon Brown's constituency, Gordon cannot make representations on my behalf as he is Prime Minister. Well he wasn't Prime Minister at the last election and just because he got promotion he now can't do what those who voted for him thought he would do as a good constituency MP. In fact he doen't have to, as he is an MP, but MSP have to, it is in their contract, or is that going to change by tomorrow, like the rules for the restaurant?
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#126,
JR, try reading what I said. I know that I go on a bit sometimes but can I point this part out
"If you had NO VALID REASON however, to be carrying a Sgian dubh, or a fishing knife, or a pen-knife, or a gralloching knife, then perhaps the first port of call would be the common sense of an Officer of the Law to a) require surrender of the knife"
So, is the Common Sense of an Officer of the Law going to mean that when encountered with a party in Highland Dress, they are immediately going to arrest everyone ? I think not. Somebody, however, draws the blade, a different matter.
A "good reason" is already effectively defined, as outlined, in the Criminal Justice Act 1988 (section 139) and Criminal Justice Act 1996 (section 3 and 4). "Religious, cultural or work related reasons". I'm sure that can be elaborated upon and more rigidly defined as the Law is drafted. After all, that's what we pay our MSPs for.
One of the joys of being a member of the SNP is that you have the right to disagree with party policy and to point out when it is IYHO total mince. A freedom which I continue to enjoy whilst paying my party dues and the day that the party supresses free debate amongst its members is that day that I leave.
And, I don't care who I get into bed with if IMHO it is in the best interests of the Scottish people. I have very good friends across all shades of political opinion and we agree more than we disagree. In the Real World, the SNP is a Minority Government and therefore has to deal with Consensus rather than Dictation.
#127 John.
Its a fair point. We can play fantasy Court Cases forever. As we have frequently seen, the Judiciary sometimes have as much common sense as a pound of biled mince.
However, under my proposed scenarios, If you were arrested with a knife on you (why were you arrested ? Were you wielding the knife at the time ?) and could not give a valid reason for carrying that knife, you would have the opportunity to explain before a court of law why you had that knife.
IF the arresting officer referred you to the PF and action was taken.
Those of the Constabulary who I have had dealings with don't strike me as people without a degree of common sense.
And you would have the right of appeal as in any case.
I don't disagree that it's a thorny area.
Is prevention better than cure, and if so, how do we go about preventing the "booze and blades" culture that the tabloids and indeed many on these pages frequently comment on.
Or do we just do nothing ?
Question: If you carry a knife, (not by accident as in John's Scenario, not as part of religious or cultural symbolism, or related to work), and you knew that it would result in a six-month prison sentence if you were arrested, would you carry that knife ?
Any members of Scotland's Finest out there with two bob's worth on this ?
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139. Chiefy1724
As a matter of no particular import - I haven't worn my sgian dubh for many years. I don't like the militarism/bloodshed thing being attached to wearing a kilt.
Even though my son is now an American, he doesn't go around wearing a gun either!
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133. JRMacClure
btw I've finally tracked down the texts I wanted on the Velvet Divorce. It'll take me some time to go through it all, but I will eventually post a "quirky" treatise on the subject.
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"I don't like the militarism/bloodshed thing being attached to wearing a kilt."
Dosen't that mean you can't wear trousers either OldNat?
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So wee Sturgeon appealed to the court on behalf of one of her constituents, this seems on the face of it to be what she was elected to do as part of her contract as an MSP. The only thing wrong with it , in spite of the Gray mans bitching, is that perhaps, going by the gentleman in question's record she should have encouraged the court to lock him up and lose the key.
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142. R campbell
LOL I don't wear a knife with my trousers either!
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122. JRMacClure:
I suggest you get a grip and read my original post. I said "without a very good reason".
But to clarify something, Sikh children are allowed - under law - to take a knife into school.
That must be stopped.
A few people here need to stop this absolute rejection of any idea.
I know someone who almost died from a stabbing. And the person who did it had previous convictions and did not get jailed.
Knife crime is a blight in Scotland.
But I'm not against people carrying Skean Dubhs. Not too many people wear kilts to work. The police know when someone does not have a good reason for carrying a knife - those are the people who should be jailed.
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137. Robabody:
Not only the Herald.
I KNOW she was representing her constituent. That's not the issue. It's that the constituent has ripped off the taxpayer (please, no comments about MPs expenses please), has 600k worth of property but is only paying it back because he was caught. He was receiving more than some people make per month. Yes, the sheriff makes the decision on sentencing but I doubt if there will be the public support for this issue, and that is why all the media will be pouncing.
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145. enneffess
"And the person who did it had previous convictions and did not get jailed.
"
So because an existing law wasn't properly enforced, everyone who carries a knife should be arrested?
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140. oldnat
"As a matter of no particular import - I haven't worn my sgian dubh for many years. I don't like the militarism/bloodshed thing being attached to wearing a kilt."
You should be aware that a sgian dugh (I'm willing to use whatever spelling you prefer) has always been an eating knife and had to do with the fact that people carried their own knife for eating. It had nothing to do with miitarism and bloodshed. This was a custom that was not confined to Scotland.
I'm surprised at you.
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I had the misfortune, or was it good fortune, to here BBC Radio Scotland report the Nicola Sturgeon 'intervene' story.
It's quite something to hear a BBC Scotland political broadcast with no prior knowledge of the item.
It's skillful, carefully constructed and contains just enough facts but not too much. The impression given in the broadcst that I heard was that this man had defrauded the benefits office of a very large sum of money (£186000 or thereabouts mentioned).
The man was said to have had a previous conviction and the only mention of Nicola Sturgeon was to say that she had 'intervened', no information of the nature of the 'intervention' was given.
The impression I was left with was that Nicola Sturgeon was attempting to interfere in the legal process (intervention is a very dramatic word).
I've checked with my wife and she had the same impression - the broadcast was at around 18:30.
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Watched Reporting "Scotland"...No mention or pics of Nicola Sturgeon at the opening of the new Victoria Inf in Battlefield (STV covered it and the fraud story ) Glen Cambell was his usual excited self. In my experience its usually the prosecution then the defence but with the NBBC its the accuser (the Grayman) who was allowed to get the last word in.
Every day now you can put money on the NBBC ,The Herald and the MSM coming up with the usual anti SNP/Wee Eck stories blown completly out of all context. Shameful !!!
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#140 Oldnat,
I've taken the other course that I pointed out. Having seen a Sgian Dubh drawn at a wedding and having to, ahem, forcefully intervene, I took the blade off mine years ago and wear the scabbard and the hilt with no blade. Does anyone know the difference ? Is the "symbolic" value any the less ?
I don't want to get kicked off on The National Dress. But let's not forget that it is all a Victorian romantic invention.
Wear a kilt or not, a Sgian Dubh or not, a Barathea or a Prince Charlie, or maybe even a White Cockade.
Doesn't make us any less or any more Scottish.
Can't remember or even misremember who said it, but "Being Scottish is a State of Grace, not a State of Dress".
[If nobody said it then I claim it as one of my better witticisms :)]
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145. enneffess
"I said "without a very good reason"."
You do not put it up to the police to decide whether someone has a "good reason" for something or not. You want the police to go around saying, "you look like a 'ned' so I'll arrest you for having that knife. You're a nice person and I won't arrest you for the same act."
This involves blatant prejudice in both the writing and enforcement of laws. In order to avoid that (if it's possible, which I doubt) you'd have to attach a list of "good reasons". Just how long a list of "good reasons" are you going to attach to that legislation? Will it include "my sister is a vet"?
Throwing everyone in jail willy-nilly isn't a "new idea". We've been doing it in the US for some time and I assure you that it does NOT work.
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151. Chiefy1724
In the US, (yes, they're pretty common over here and a number of men of my acquaintance have and wear them on occasion) the blade is unsharpened and you'd have some trouble cutting butter. That seems a pretty simple solution to me.
By the way, carrying sharpened blades of more than 8 inches is a pretty serious crime in this country in most areas. But I'm saying don't go overboard in such legislation.
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151. Chiefy1724
"But let's not forget that it is all a Victorian romantic invention. "
Actually, no it isn't a "victorian invention". This is an insult to your own heritage to buy this lie. The whole "clan tartan" thing was an invention about the time of George III but the wearing of plaids and great kilts goes back centuries and even philabegs were worn as early as the 1600s.
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140. oldnat
Hah. I thought about this some more and had to chuckle. Really, Oldnat, when you Scots wanted to kill someone you were capable of a more impressive blade. ;-)
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#154 JR
I beg your pardon. I should have said that "Modern" Highland dress was a Victorian Romantic Invention. Including Black, Blue and Green Dinner jackets of various cut, Dress Sporrans, Clan Belts, Sgian Dubhs with "Cairngorm Diamonds" in the hilt, those bloody silly kilt brogues, garters (one or two flash, very important that you wear the right one of the right colour) and half a sheep knitted by Granny into socks that are hot, sweaty and uncomfortable and have you itching for the next week.
Other than that, I can't disagree with you.
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Almost forgot another very well crafted piece on BBC Radio Scotland. Mike Russell had made the general point that there may be some in the teaching profession aho aren't up to the job and are in the wrong profession.
The BBC carefully manipuleted this as Mike Russell saying that a minority of teachers would not be able to cope with the carruculum for excellence.
Crafty, very crafty.
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156. Chiefy1724
"I should have said that "Modern" Highland dress was a Victorian Romantic Invent"
There I give it to you. I seriously doubt that many Hielanders out with their CATTLE (mind, it wasn't sheep) wore Prince Charlies. =)
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137 enneffess// the problem for the media is the snp is not there party so they don't or should not get to order them about, unlike the labour party, and they don't need any reason to pounce
when it's the snp they just do.
i think she and the snp need to get there act on, this will not stop, they need to get into the fight this idea that the nice guy wins is and always was rot. the idea that the bbc in Scotland and it's unionist extremists within could be sweet talked is nothing short of unbelievable, along with there buddies in the press.
The aim is to do as much damage as possible in the run up to the British general election , I am not a member of your party but please this is no joke please start to give it out.
The British have been seen to have had knowledge of torture there system is rotten with corruption even institutions like the bbc are tainted with shows like blue peter taking money from kids under deception.
The British prime minister is ordered to repay thousands well the bbc still see him as a credible character to oversee the economy in the uk
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#157 Online Ed
Yup, I heard it on Newsdrive too at about 5-15pm. Mike did point out quite forcefully that the Northern British Broadcasting Corporation Newsroom had selectively quoted 23 seconds from a two-and-a-half hour appearance before the Committee and that what he had ACTUALLY said was (I'm paraphrasing) that despite the best efforts of their employers to assist them, it MAY be the case that IF some teachers were unable to adapt to the rapidly changing way of which lessons were presented in this multi-media tehnological age and were comfortable with only using Photocopied workbooks as their teaching medium, then they should POSSIBLY re-consider their choice of career.
Nothing like a good story.
And dear comrades at the BBC Northern Britain Newsroom, that was NOTHING like a good story.
Anyone else feeling that BBC Northern Britain are getting a little worked up today ?
I'm off to the I-Player to track it down in full.....
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I'm not sure if the same provision exists under Scottish legislation (though I'd imagine it does), however the Criminal Justice 1988 Act which is in force in England allows sgian dubhs and Sikh kirpans. Sec 139 para 5 permits the carrying of a knife or blade if there is a bona fide reason for doing so. The permissible reasons are:
(a) for use at work;
(b) for religious reasons; or
(c) as part of any national costume.
The last provision was specifically intended to prevent mass arrests at Scottish weddings.
See: http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1988/ukpga_19880033_en_14
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Those of you who understandably avoid this website's Scotland politics page for fear of becoming terminally depressed might make an exception to view the "feature" story headlined as Inncompetent teachers warning with the sub-text: "The education secretary warns that some teachers may have to leave the profession because they are not up to the job."
It's certainly fair to say that they were not quite up to scratch with that page's sub-editor!
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145.
But to clarify something, Sikh children are allowed - under law - to take a knife into school.
The kirpan is only carried by Khalsa Sikhs - those who have undertaken a baptism, not every Sikh carries one.
The Sikhs don't believe in infant baptism, so only those old enough to have made a conscious decision will become Khalsa, in Scotland the age of responsibility is 16.
I went to school with a lot of Sikhs, most didn't bother becoming Khalsa while we were at school, but those who did were normally about 17.
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106. At 1:15pm on 10 Feb 2010, Online Ed wrote:
BBC Scotland continue with their unacceptable coverage of Scottish politics
160. At 8:28pm on 10 Feb 2010, Chiefy1724
“….the Northern British Broadcasting Corporation Newsroom had selectively quoted…”
Sometimes I feel that, the BBC, STV, David Maddox, Jenny Hjul, Alan Cochrane, Angus McLeod, Eddie Barnes et al have forgotten the journalist code that, evidence and truth must form the basis of your conclusions.
Or did I dream that?
By the way does the BBC website in the UK carry as much advertising as it does overseas.
The idea of no advertising was so that they could not be swayed by commercial pressures.
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Does Nicola's letter of representation fall into the same camp as Hairy Jack McConnell's 'no further proceedings' directive to the Procurator Fiscal when the son of one of his mates lamped an A&E nurse?
And if Nicola has to resign for an 'error of judgement', as Gray call's it, then the whole of Holyrood Labour must resign - if electing charisma-lite Gray as leader wasn't an error of judgement Gawd knows what is!
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I think it’s about time nationalist should call for non payment of the TV licences, they should be seen outside the Glasgow building of the bbc in Scotland.
It’s getting to the point where you have to put up
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Well, there is at least one news outlet in Scotland prepared to report the fact that council share of the budget has increased under the SNP.
My thanks to the Newsnet Scotland reader who sent us the link.
Click Here
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160. At 8:28pm on 10 Feb 2010, Chiefy1724 wrote:
#157 Online Ed
Yup, I heard it on Newsdrive too at about 5-15pm. Mike did point out quite forcefully that the Northern British Broadcasting Corporation Newsroom had selectively quoted 23 seconds from a two-and-a-half hour appearance before the Committee and that what he had ACTUALLY said was (I'm paraphrasing) that despite the best efforts of their employers to assist them, it MAY be the case that IF some teachers were unable to adapt to the rapidly changing way of which lessons were presented in this multi-media tehnological age and were comfortable with only using Photocopied workbooks as their teaching medium, then they should POSSIBLY re-consider their choice of career.
Nothing like a good story.
And dear comrades at the BBC Northern Britain Newsroom, that was NOTHING like a good story.
Anyone else feeling that BBC Northern Britain are getting a little worked up today ?
I'm off to the I-Player to track it down in full.....
There is a free dowloadable application that allows 'recordings' of BBC political output that appears on i-player.
All i-players shows are recordable using BBC's own software but political output is not included.
It means that the programme is stored for referenc and won't run out after 30 days.
Contact me if you would like details.
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JR
You've totally lost the argument here. I have already said "without good reason".
What are you doing? Condoning the carrying of a knife? I, the police and most other people can tell the difference between a knife being carried for work/hobbies and a knife being carried as a weapon.
As one poster has pointed out, add alcohol to a social occasion and lo and behold, a ceremonial blade can become a weapon. I;ve been to a few weddings where fisticuffs have started, usually between drunken relatives that wouldn't normally breath the same air.
Also, most people I think can understand precisely what I meant by "without good reason".
You have totally over-reacted here. Is it because you feel there was a slight criticism of the Scottish Government? Christ, we're trying to get alcohol-related crime down by PREVENTION. Enforcing the law is called PREVENTION, and prevention is a damn sight easier than having to tell a family they have a lost a loved one because no one is allowed to be arrested for carrying a knife.
We had a guy arrested last year in my town for carrying a baseball bat. He was carrying it on a Saturday night and hanging around with some of his unsavoury chums. Or would you consider that the police were somehow acting out of order because he was about to partake in sports?
Wake up, knife crime is a real issue. Public safety takes priority over religious or cultural needs. The police are not suddenly going to carry out raids on tradesmen or fishermen.
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161. InfrequentAllele2:
Colleague of mine at work read that out from memory! He just spent a week on a jury where the defendant was charged with, surprise surprise, carrying a knife. The law was stated again and again by the sheriff and the prosecution/defence to ensure everyone was clear. The law is there to protect the innocent.
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On the Nicola Sturgeon issue, while she is acting in her constituency capacity, she could have picked a better one than this!
But it ain't a resigning issue. I wish Gray would give it a rest and concentrate on politics. By all means criticise, but if the Scottish Government resigned every time it was demanded there'd be no one left. Alex Salmond breakng wind is a resigning issue. John Swinney growing a comb over would be a resigning issue.
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166. At 9:36pm on 10 Feb 2010, tamO wrote:
I think it’s about time nationalist should call for non payment of the TV licences, they should be seen outside the Glasgow building of the bbc in Scotland.
It’s getting to the point where you have to put up
Civil disobedience is the next step - but it will probably be the next generation that takes it up.
We are the generation that still believes in reasoned argument and democracy. The short term gain for the Unionist media may well be the return of Labour at Holyrood or the destruction of the SNP, however what of the 30-40% of the population who are witnessing the silencing of their voice.
No-one has yet addressed this pressure valve, there has to be a release for people. The media are supposed to be that release, someone is supposed to articulate their views.
How many people on here find themselves raging at the radio or TV?
My fear is that the next generation will opt for a more radical approach and the Unionists will have created another mini Northern Ireland.
To have created a lumpen mass of poor, hopeless and politically ignorant and point to them as 'proof' of Scottish endorsement of the Union is not just disingenuous but positively dangerous for it is perpetuating a lie.
What will happen when that mass realise what has happened and anger takes over?
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The Herald now walking trance like towards the abyss.
This is their headline:
Sturgeon called on by Labour to resign over letter to court
No, I won't provide a link - it might encourage some people to visit the site. I only go now for research purposes.
Anyone know who has the most resignation calls from Labour?
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# 146 Enneffess
"I KNOW she was representing her constituent. That's not the issue" I disagree with you on this one, to me it is the issue. She was legitimately trying to help. Now, what information she was working on would be of interest, she may have been duped by the guy or not, I don’t know.
As for the rest, I broadly agree with your comments regarding the gentleman – a chiseler of the first order and have no sympathy for his deeds.
Meantime the rat pack will be drooling
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We go on about the media. The DTP are loosing sales and readers (and Dads reading it out to the family *rolls eyes*). And now this:-
http://www.gfknop.com/pressinfo/releases/singlearticles/004833/index.en.html
What a shame his glenncampbelliness doesn't have a blog!
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169. enneffess
Wow! been at the caffeinated beverages?!
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166. tamO
I think that the SNP lowering themselves to the Labour party's level would be a bad idea. Don't underestimate just how unpopular labour are right now. The more they push these silly little sleaze stories, the more they expose their own hypocrisy, ineptitude and lack of substance. Labour in the Scottish Parliament hasn't got anything positive to offer at the moment in terms of policy or approach. I remember during the Labour leadership campaign Andy Kerr saying something like Labour became managerial in power, and needed to offer something a bit more in terms of ideas and policies. Well two years since they lost and the best they can offer is locking up people who carry knives and reinstate GARL. Whatever you think about those two particular policies, that is simply pathetic.
More importantly the next election is a UK general election, and the Labour government is extremely unpopular for many good reasons.
So tactically, i think it would be a mistake for the SNP to get negative, they don't need to. The Labour party may feel like they got a few good results lately with the Nicola Sturgeon contituency case, and the lunch thing, but they don't get it. The hard core labour activists mistakenly believe that just because they hate the SNP, lots of other poeple do too. They are wrong, people don't hate the SNP, but a lot do hate the Labour party.
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174. At 11:08pm on 10 Feb 2010, mrbfaethedee wrote:
169. enneffess
Wow! been at the caffeinated beverages?!
-----------------
8 cups of tea today!! I've had a stinking cold since yesterday. Better start a campaign to remove caffeine from tea and coffee :p I've also had a hot chocolate at work. Good job I only take the car to work on a Friday.......
172. Robabody:
Think you are right she has been duped. But the facts of the case are there, and I think she's made a little misjudgement.
But can you imagine the media reaction if it had been MacAskill?
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170. Online Ed:
Civil disobedience was tried with the Poll Tax and failed. Using the same tactic with the tv licence, much as I loathe paying it, would fall flat on its face.
What annoys me about the tv licence is that the BBC makes a fortune from its commercial enterprises. I'd love to know exactly what their profit margin is.
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Wow! Gordon Brewer certainly showed himself up as the bully boy on Newsnight Scotland tonight. Frantic! Not only did he answer a question that Labour's Richard Baker was asked, but he wouldn't let the SNP's Shona Robison speak, whilst giving not one interruption to Baker. Brewer is no gentleman. If anyone should resign its Brewer.
By the way I wonder how many resignations Gray has called for now? In his case it seems to be habit forming.
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Isn't it absolutely amazing how Labour can suddenly have all these great ideas when they are not in power.
Though they had the GARL idea when they were in power, put it on their manifesto in 2002, then did nothing about it for the five years till they were knocked out of power.
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177. hamish42
But Newsnicht also dealt with Labour on knife crime their policy rubbished by all non apparatchiks, and the earlier clips of their having discussed the issue under Labour the McConnell saying "We have to do something, er ...." was good.
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169. enneffess
"Condoning the carrying of a knife? I, the police and most other people can tell the difference between a knife being carried for work/hobbies and a knife being carried as a weapon."
So the police just LOOK at someone and tell whether the knife is carried for a hobby or innocently and when it's carried as a weapon, can they?
You REALLY believe that? (He's obviously a ned so let's jail him)
No, not only have I not lost the argument the "they can just tell" argument is absurd.
Laws against violence committed with ANY weapon should be harsh and fully enforced.
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#178 sneckedagain
Not only that; it appears there are a raft of cheaper alternatives as well. I think if Glasgow really wants to avoid a 10 minute taxi ride, it needs to go back to the drawing board and come up with the best properly costed and realistic proposal out of all the different suggestions that it now appears that Labour didn't even consider. Let alone any allowance for the effect of the coming of peak oil on the flights market.
Glasgow Labour are the same as London Labour, only too happy to splash the cash. Our cash, and our kids cash, and our grandkids cash; look where Labour's got us, bankrupt Britain. 8-(
Just thank your lucky stars we had the SNP to look out for our interest.
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169. enneffess
"Wake up, knife crime is a real issue. "
You're right. Knife CRIME is a real problem. So when it happens... how about the penalties being harsh? But would that be too simple? And it would actually be practical and wouldn't expect the police to read people's minds.
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#179 oldnat
Another little trick by Brewer. He normally shows the newspaper front pages, but tonight he didn't hold them up saying that they were all about Nichola Sturgeon. I notice that this particular topic is not covered by the Caledonian Mercury, so was he just telling fibs and trying to inflate the story?
Again Gray resorts to the Labour party tactic of pulling out a real live example, a victim of knife crime who will support his message. He should remember the fool he made of himself at FM questions when he named an apprentice who was supposed to have had his apprenticeship terminated early when it wasn't actually true.
Looking forward to Salmond tearing another strip off him today. There can't be much left.
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I'm a great admirer of Nicola Sturgeon but I do think she has made a mistake on this occasion. Perhaps we haven't been given all the facts but even so it has given the opposition parties another opportunity to beat the SNP about the head and, in all conscience, they don't need any help in that direction. Further, what a gift to the Press and NuLab Broadcasting Corporation. As for Glenn, he must be slavering at the anticipation of another week of hellish headlines for the Nats. Miss Sturgeon is usually so sure-footed I can't imagine she couldn't foresee the furore her letter to the Court would cause. A good excuse for the BBC and Press to ignore the Westminster government condoning torture of British residents by the Americans. Eddie Mair made mincemeat of the Milliband brat on P.M. but I reckon it will hardly get a mention in the Scottish media.
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139. Chiefy1724
"If you carry a knife, (not by accident as in John's Scenario, not as part of religious or cultural symbolism, or related to work), and you knew that it would result in a six-month prison sentence if you were arrested, would you carry that knife ?
"
So people should give up fishing, cooking and carving because they'll go to jail? Please...
And the SNP aren't the only political parties in the world. It is the Republicans in my own country and their throw everyone and their brother in jail and keep them there attitude I was TRYING to warn you of before you had your little temper fit.
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181. handclapping
"it appears there are a raft of cheaper alternatives as well"
If you look at the project development documents for GARL, you'll see that the location of the airport terminal was decreed by BAA as it suited their needs. BAA are a private company, not a public authority. I have no problem with public funds being used to improve the Glasgow Central terminal and the Glasgow-Paisley track and signalling system (Oh! that's already happening!). Further, I'd be happy for public funds to be used to build a new station on an existing line close to the airport. Obviously, it should be for BAA to provide the infrastructure to link their terminal building to a new Airport Station.
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If you didn't see Jonathan Meades on BBC2 tonight (after Newsnicht) it's worth a look. As always with Meades you need to switch off your "Scots bristle meter"!
However, ignore a lot of his excess and it's actually quite a perceptive outsiders insight on how Scotland has been turned into a docile dependency culture both by the wealthy elite and Labour manipulation. He does end up suggesting that we have a choice!
Siobhan Redmond as the Scottish SatNav is excellent!
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#187
A very good programme! and the fermented Meades but an array of stings into the Northern lights. Shocking stats on the rich and land owners of Sctoland or should I say the few of them!.
I dont think I will look at a wall in the same manor again.
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187. oldnat
I half-watched bits while working at home.
I agree, often insightful, but had me bristling where i didn't know I had bristles - i thought it was a satirical charicaturing of unionism for a while, then realised it wasn't!
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On the BBC Scotland 6 o' clock news last night we had an abysmal failure of the sound on all their outside broadcast commentaries throughout the programme. The studio sound was ok. We didn't hear what Nicola Sturgeon had to say, but unfortunately Iain Gray came over loud and clear. There were several more articles where the sound was lost. No apology from the BeeB and they appeared to be completely oblivious to the problem. I checked other channels, including BBC2, and they were all operating ok, so it wasn't the cable service.
I like Jonathan Meades documentaries but they need a bit of listening concentration.
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The ever-classy Jim Murphy ;), playing the tough guy according to an a online Guardian piece (The real benefit cheats? The Stasi ranks of Hard Labour )-
"Jim Murphy, the Scottish secretary, has suggested to Ed Miliband, Labour's manifesto co-ordinator, that people who inform on benefit cheats should get a share of any cash saved."
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190. hamish42
Agreed. (Thought it might only have been here!) They had solved the problem by the 10.30 news, but I've never known that kind of problem to be so persistent.
If the Beeb ever accepted that they made errors, I'd complain - but why bother. They are simply ****.
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#188 kered
LOL
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Just perusing The Heralds website and came across this story...
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/ryanair-to-build-new-hanger-at-pertwick-airport-1.1005528
mmm you would think spelling things correct would be a good way to run a newspaper.
Also David Cameron attacking Alex Salmond. I think most of us are aware that an independent Scotland will be in debt for the start of its life. We dont think the magic debt fairy will wave her wand and put us all in the black. Then he trys to tell us that the new tories are nothing like Thatcher.... the fact that George Osbourne was courting rich business men on a yacht says to me that nothing is different between them and Labour. Only in it for themselves.
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194. Scarymannie
"Also David Cameron attacking Alex Salmond. I think most of us are aware that an independent Scotland will be in debt for the start of its life. We dont think the magic debt fairy will wave her wand and put us all in the black."
So much for that vaunted "respect for Scotland" he said he would show.
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Surely Gray calling for Nicola's resignation is a bit like the pot calling the kettle black. I don't see Gray calling for the resignation of all those Labour MPs who have cheated on their expenses claims which, if the expenses claims were dealt with properly, would have been a benefit for all MPs.
So, is this a fair story to serve up to the Scottish public or another smokescreen to avoid talking about real issues?
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I have just heard the North British snippet on BBC Breakfast.
As expected, the headline was Nicola Sturgeon being asked to resign, followed by a one-sided explanation of what she did wrong, a snippet of Nicola, cut off just as she was starting her explanation, then an attack by smug Baker.
I feel so frustrated that I have to pay for such blatant Labour spin.
Whilst I don't think there is any point complaining to the Westminster appointed BBC governors, and even less point in complaining to their Glasgow acolytes, is there anybody in the EU that I can contact to see whether such bias in a publicly funded broadcaster can be challenged?
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It's getting a bit uncomfortable now.
When Wee 'Outrage' is wheeled out then you know that BBC Scotland is fully om board.
For the first time ever I think we are probably all agreed that the media are at their limit with anti-SNP propaganda.
I for one would be very interested to see how support is holding up right now. What a fright the Unionists would get if there was nary a dent !!
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#197
Try an SNP Euro MP.
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Newsnight Scotland completely and utterly broke the BBC charter of fair and balanced yesterday.
Simple as that. They are in breach of contract with the Scottish Licence fee payers. They should be in court over this!
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Good morning subjects of the Empire in Northern Britain.
Is it just me or are the BBC Northern Britain Newsroom fair doing their dinger this morning ? Getting the ever-fair Mr Campbell up at sparrowyawn to spew his bile and vitriol "across" the airwaves.
Only a matter of time before the fragrant Ms Renton gets pulled away from Mrs McGlumpherty's Cat to switch to 24/7 rolling coverage.
The surest sign that NuLab are up against it.
Resignations:
I seem to recall that the Grey Man has, in his tenure as Leader of the Labour Contingent in the Scottish parliament called for the Resignation of
First Minister Alex Salmond
Deputy First Minister and Health Minister Nicola Sturgeon
Finance Secretary John Swinney
Housing Minister Alex Neil
Education Minister Fiona Hyslop
Education Minister Mike Russell
Environment Minister Roseanna Cunningham
Or in other words, just over half of the Cabinet. Makes you wonder what the rest are doing wrong ?
And that's just the ones that stick in the craw, I mean, the mind.
#168 Online Ed
Are you having the Audacity to suggest that it is possible to record streamed audio, thereby circumventing the reasonable restrictions on use of the i-Player, or indeed any streamed audio service ?
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Wonderful doublespeak this morning brian. What you said was less revealing than what you didn't say. Namely the reason that the ad hoc committee for the consideration of the independence referendum bill would have a labour convener. Your masters must be proud of you.
John
ps the article on this website is the same. nauseating.
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look start doing something about it, your getting to look like the bullied kid at school .
It’s not the labour party but the bbc who are the bully, and everyone then joins in and has a kick at you well your down, take legal action take them on by a non payment campaign get out side there building but this is just sad.
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#201 Chiefy1724, "Are you having the Audacity to suggest that it is possible to record streamed audio, thereby circumventing the reasonable restrictions on use of the i-Player, or indeed any streamed audio service?"
...by 'circumventing', did you actually mean 'Orbit' :o)
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A great post on Ian Hamilton's blog about liabilities and assets.
Starts with a great first line too!
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Been unlucky enough to listen to Morning Extra on Radio Scotland. The majority of the callers seemed to be defending Nicola Sturgeon. One of those that didn't was a borderline racist and homophobe and another was ranting on about how his MSP (not named) didn't provide him with representation when he needed it - so in effect he was actually defending Sturgeon's actions.
I posted a while ago that I thought the media would get especially nasty in their attacks of the SNP but I thought it would wait until the referendum was about to take place. It seems they have started early, perhaps hoping they can prevent the referendum from ever actually happening.
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The incessant resignation calls from New Labour's guard dogs up here in Scotland is an indictment of them.
They have such a paucity of politcal nous, that at the slightest hint of making some political capital, they waste it on yet another ludicrous attempted knockout blow.
The pack'll be at fever pitch today, barking away and getting each other all worked up. Woof!
I'm starting to worry less about the beeb now, their stock is sinking too; i'm starting to hear 'real-world' complaints from people not-of-this-blog.
I think that even when people may be unionists and might be in tune with what the beeb presenting - the (lack of)balance and style of 'reporting' is self-evidently wrong to most folk.
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205.mrbfaethedee, lol from "call me Dave" to "call me dreep".
Re Nicola, I haven't detected so much breathless excitement from the Britnats since the evening Newsdrive edition of Radio Scotland on 4th May 2007 when the union jack boys and girls in the studio thought they'd swung it. Dave Thompson at the Inverness count spoiled the party that time.
I think we should let them enjoy it, their high could last right up until Gordon Brown is swept back into power by a grateful nation. It's not as if any more Dave's are going to come out of the woodwork amd snatch victory away this time.
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Lets not get overly worried about Nicolagate... the BBC and their Labour masters are laying all their cards face up and chips on the table before the spread has even been dealt (ie. election announced).
This is the sign of desperation... a week is a long time in politics and their shortcomings will become evident when the river card is finaly turned face up on May 6th.
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Predictably, multiple tirades against the SNP in today's Scotsman (Scotland's national paper), centring around but not confined to Mr Gray’s latest call for a resignation.
It's a funny old business; you'd think from the way that the Labour party and their media friends go on that the government is failing, lurching from one crisis to another and about to fall at any moment – a picture totally at odds with what we actually see of a minority government actually getting its budget through and running the country far more competently than its Westminster counterpart.
Ultimately the trouble with this constant refrain of Resign! Is that should it ever be justified, will anybody actually take any notice or just assume that its Mr Gray havering away as usual?
I'm rather tempted to wonder if he hasn't been watching too much Father Ted:
Mrs Doyle: Resign!
SNP minister (as Father Ted): No thank you
Mrs Doyle: Oh ye will ye will ye will ye will
Father Ted: No thank you
Mrs Doyle: Oh ye will, ye will, ye will…
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Re: Nicola Sturgeon - maybe we should ask Ian Grey to resign for asking stupid questions at FMQ.
Now THAT would be constructive.
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If Gray had any common sense, he would not have bothered using the resignation call in the past. Coming out with the same tactic again and again is tiresome and ineffective. Had his call for Nicola to resign been the first time he had used it, it would have carried some weight. But its same old same old.
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The number of people who had their homes repossessed reached a 14-year high during 2009, figures have shown. The Council of Mortgage Lenders (CML) said 46,000 homes were repossessed last year, the highest number since 1995. That was an increase of 6,000 on the total for 2008, but was lower than the CML's most recent forecast of 48,000.
Thankyou Gordon..
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208. GrassyKnollington
"lol from "call me Dave" to "call me dreep"."
lol! Coffee, meet keyboard!
You'll have to change your moniker to GrassyLolington!
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i understand your need to make light of what has been going on, it's a way of not facing up to the need to challage it in any serious way.
your punch drunk and now some of you are getting to like it. what a sad lot scotland has in its nationalists
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Time to move on to the new thread folks, especially as it's specifically about Ms Sturgeon and the referendum bill.
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I think we should rename the Labour party in Scotland 'The miseries' or in deference to the Auld Alliance, 'Les miserables'.
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