The haggling continues
UPDATE: In the debate, the frontbench speeches proceeded as anticipated.
Jeremy Purvis of the Lib Dems welcomed Mr Swinney's indications on top salaries - but stressed they would need more.
They want guarantees that the cash thus released would be spent productively on bolstering manufacturing and helping the young jobless.
Andy Kerr for Labour supported GARL.
It was, he said, a "weathervane" for the need to enhance the economy more generally in a time of stress.
I thought Mr Kerr was unwise to go on to accuse Mr Swinney of "arrogance" in presuming that every pound in his budget was wisely spent.
The minister had opened his remarks by insisting precisely the contrary: that he was open to other ideas.
Thoughtful speech
Mr Kerr presumably feels that such openness does not emerge in practice.
Nonetheless, the tone jarred with the remainder of his speech which was characterised by persuasion rather than invective.
Mr Swinney urged the entire chamber to focus upon the coming squeeze in public expenditure as well as the constraints involved in the immediate Bill.
Substantive contributions all - but perhaps the most thoughtful speech came from Wendy Alexander.
The former Labour leader dealt with the power of parliament to alter the capital budget.
She urged ministers to publish full details of the capital spending programme, year by year, while noting Permanent Secretary Sir John Elvidge had last week indicated to Parliament's Audit Committee that four major programmes had slipped in timetable.
These were, she said, the Southern General Hospital in Glasgow, the Borders Railway, the National Arena for the Commonwealth Games and the Gartcosh campus.
Hands 'tied'
Projects, she said, worth a total of £1.2bn.
Such slippage, she argued, might release productive capital for other schemes.
Yet the Scottish government still declined to publish all the details - and parliament had not pushed sufficiently vigorously for publication, effectively tying their own hands.
Now, of course, Ms Alexander has a constituency interest in mind: that Glasgow Airport Rail Link.
But she pursued the wider issue without hammering home the Garl point.
Winding up the debate, John Swinney said that Ms Alexander had made a reasonable point - except that she had neglected to note that some capital projects, such as the M74, had to be accelerated.
He insisted the Scottish government spent close to its capital limit, with minimal slack.
But Mr Swinney indicated he might be open to the notion of an independent review of Scottish expenditure.
This would be following the Irish model.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Let's talk directions of travel with regard to public spending.
MSPs vote this evening on the Scottish budget for next year.
But it's only the Stage One vote. Stage Two follows next week. Stage Three the week after.
Much more haggling to come.
But it looks like the Tories and the Liberal Democrats will assist the Bill to pass today - on the grounds that it merits further consideration.
Labour will almost certainly vote against, concerned at the scrapping of the Glasgow Airport Rail Link and other issues such as the housing budget.
On that latter point, Labour says there have been substantial - and potentially damaging - cuts.
Pay constraints
Ministers say no. They say the budget over the three year period is up but that a significant tranch of that capital spending was accelerated, meaning that it isn't available next year.
That makes the case, they say, for further acceleration.
But the most intriguing direction of travel is on pay.
I expect John Swinney this afternoon, opening the debate, to signal support for significant pay constraint in the upper echelons of the public sector.
In the next few weeks, Mr Swinney will outline a full pay policy. But we should get some pointers this afternoon.
He'll back a freeze in top salaries - where he has the power to do so.
He'll urge the public sector to shelve bonuses. And he'll argue that the overall salary bill should be driven down.
Westminster control
Where he has the power to do so? That doesn't include local authorities - who are autonomous - although, of course, Mr Swinney sets much of their budget and will hope and expect that they would follow suit.
It doesn't include those parts of the public sector under reserved Westminster control.
And it doesn't extend to staff on extended pay deals, say over three years.
But it would include ministers, senior civil servants, top NHS managers and those at Government quangos such as Scottish Enterprise, VisitScotland and the like.
That direction is veering towards the Lib Dem position. They want a 5% cut in the wage bill, generated by curbing top salaries.
There's talk that some of that could be achieved by, say, reducing the number of senior managers in a particular division.
In a speech tonight, Scottish Conservative leader Annabel Goldie will follow the direction set by her Westminster colleagues when she'll back a pay freeze for those in the public sector earning more than £18,000.
That would apply from 2011.
Annabel Goldie says that would save the equivalent of funding 10,000 jobs.
But it has no support among other parties who say it is unfair to penalise those on relatively low pay.
Will the budget go through? Yes. There's minimal appetite in the current climate for political grandstanding.
I'm 
~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~08~RS~)
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So, again, we have Labour playing politics with the budget. Fair enough, that's what political parties do; play politics. However, I think they are scoring an own goal when Labour finance spokesman Andy Kerr accused the SNP of collaborating with the Conservatives to bring in massive cuts. Does this mean that Labour, if(?) they win the next GE will NOT be bringing in any massive cuts? Not according to the Chancellor who, along with some of his Labour buddies have forced Gordon Brown to use the 'cuts' word. So how does the Labour party in Scotland square this call for extra spending with their collegues in Westminster who are admitting that there must be cuts?
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mmm , Annabelle's mask slipping again. why have the Tory's chosen £18,000?
the Lib dems 5 per cent reduction is a start,but what is missing is a management cull and an administration cull.
OK so the Scottish government can only implement these reductions in area's of their own responsibility , that rules out local authorities or those controlled by Westminster but it would at least be a start.
And then we have ,bringing up the rear, the ostrich's AKA Scottish Labour. "if it has anything to do with the SNP we vote against"
remember : where the Scottish Parliament leads westminster follows eventually!
Sid
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"Will the budget go through? Yes. There's minimal appetite in the current climate for political grandstanding."
As usual Brian forgot to add "except for the labour party".
Let events unfold and we will see labour political grandstanding continue unquestioned and uncontrolled. Thanks BBC.
Whatever happened to Brian's promise "to ask the difficult questions"?
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£18,000?
So I expect that the Conservatives will also put a freeze on mortgage rates, travel fares, energy bills..........
Inflation has jumped due to quantative easing. If this continues interest rates will rise.
Going to get messy.......
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“Once more into the breach my friends” “into the valley of death ride the 46”.
Talk about turkey’s voting for Christmas! Regular as clockwork this bunch of ner do wells get together and declare themselves to be the opposition in Holyrood, that means position to everything the minority government in Holyrood cares to do or even say.
They have now got to admit they even speak against their dear friends and paymasters in Westminster; this situation is undoubtedly going to end in tears. Still they can’t even agree amongst themselves which way they are to down the road never mind which road. The road to oblivion awaits them, the A1 to Westminster will be one way only, and then we will be treated to a large parachute drop into Holyrood.
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Is it not very sad that Labour are again playing politics with the jobless numbers how sick will they get.
Who do they pay or force to lie, do they think the public are stupid
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"Labour will almost certainly vote against,"
THEY ARE LABOUR IN SCOTLAND IT'S WHAT THEY DO, ITS ALL THEY DO
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From the previous post :
There are two main problems facing the introduction of the Scots language into the classroom in modern Scotland.
Firstly the lack of standardised spelling means children are presented with texts containing unfamiliar sequences of letters. A young child who has only been exposed to English spelling is going to be confused by distinctively Scots graphemes like ui eu ey aa (as in guid, speug, wey, awaa). Since the teachers themselves have never learned Scots orthography they are in no position to explain it to the children. As oldnat noted, I've always advocated a standardised spelling for Scots. It would unify the various spoken dialects of Scots, facilitate the production of educational materials, and give teachers a solid foundation from which they can teach the language.
Secondly, Scots texts are normally introduced as part of general reading - as a part of learning English. Decades ago when most Scottish people spoke Scots, children were able to recognise Scots words and grammatical constructions because they heard them in daily speech, even if they were not usually a part of the written language. This meant that these words and grammatical constructions did not have to be taught formally and Scots texts could be introduced in the classroom without much explanation. However nowadays spoken Scots is in steep decline, and teachers can no longer assume that children will be familiar with traditional Scots vocabulary and grammar. In fact the teachers, especially younger teachers, are no often longer familiar with them either.
Scots requires both a standardised spelling system, and it needs to be separated from English in education. Scots must be taught as Scots and not as an adjunct to English.
This thread is all about the cuts we're facing in public spending, I don't expect Scots to get high priority and what I advocate requires money and a political commitment. It will provoke outraged articles by the David Maddoxes and Jenny Hjuls of this world about evil separatist nats wasting public money and creating divisions - but then we're used to that.
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Of course the budget will go through, after the usual playing to the gallery by the opposition, claims of concessions and having influenced decisions, ( all inconsequential ) heads will nod and all will be back to normal. The last thing Labour want is an election in Scotland prior to being slaughtered in a general election. They can't fight an election without cash, and if all reports are true, just like their incompetent Westminster masters have done to the British economy,they have reduced the Labour party to the verge of banktrupcy.
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The Labour party continues to show its Marxist roots.
As Marx himself said:
I don’t know what they have to say,
It makes no difference anyway --
Whatever it is, I’m against it!
No matter what it is or who commenced it,
I’m against it.
Your proposition may be good
But let’s have one thing understood --
Whatever it is, I’m against it!
And even when you’ve changed it or condensed it,
I’m against it.
Groucho Marx, of course.
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Labour are using GARL as a totem to wrong foot the Government of Scotland. Glad to hear in the parliament a few minutes ago that Swinney has kept the project out of the first stage of the budget bill at least and Andy Kerr in in a blue funk over it. Labour have nailed their reputation to the mast on this one and they cant't back down. Either way they are looking stupid.
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Interesting how quickly poor Andy Burnham was slapped down re minimum pricing for alcohol in England. Of course Andy wouldn't even have considered the existence let alone the opinion of the dreary Iain Gray and his desk thumping band of North British Labour nonentities.
He was slapped down by Brown Darling and Murphy who do know that Labour's drones in Scotchland had opposed it , not because it was a bad policy but because they are duty bound to stuff the SNP at every opportunity.
Brian knows as well as the rest of us why "Labour will almost certainly vote against" the SNP's budget and that it has sweet Fanny Adams to do with GARL and everything to do with the only thing Labour do spectacularly well in Scotland, Pig Headed Oppositionism.
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Is there any point in Brian's Blog continuing? It seems to have become exclusively an SNP forum, abandoned by all the unionists, the uncommitted and those who question the interminably repetitive propaganda and paranoia of the nationalists. Perhaps this is victory of sorts for the SNP? I think it is just sad that nobody thinks it worth arguing with a little band of blinkered optimists.
I logged in today thinking I might cross swords with some thinking Nats (there were a few, once) but it's just chatter here. Must be terribly frustrating to spend your days blogging your wee heart out and nobody gives a damn?
Stamp collecting, anyone? I'm told paint drying is amazing to watch.
To be perfectly honest, sober and serious, is there really any point in this. Brian Taylor won't change to accommodate you, nor will his employers. Nor will the Scotsman, etc., and all your other bogeymen from Brown and Murphy to the mocking English.
Please prove me wrong. Try a new political tack. Or is there actually satisfaction to be found in repeating the cliches for their own sakes.
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What a bunch of numpties !
Evening News has a story about vermin explosion !!!
SoS sMurphy the Pied Piper to MSP's ???
When King Rat goes on about GARL,that £395m project to
replace a 10minute bus ride,he thinks in the past !!!
In the past,in the film King Rat,the vermin provided protein !!!
Did Grayman and lard George contribute to NaeLab's response ???
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Well Brigadier , don't bother to come calling on Brians blog - just you nip over the the Scotsman and cross swords with the lovely anti SNP lot there it will , I'm sure , be more to your taste!
You're not David Maddox incognito are you?
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lol, there's no unionists left so let's shut it down, very democratic!
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I stated my position on British Labour on the earlier blog. I am disappointed that the insistance on GARL and beleif that the budget has increased in Scotland despite all parties and independent financial reports saying otherwise. British Labour are taking the public for fools.
I am also quite worried about the Coservatives and Unionist party. Prepare an emergency budget, shall we? Is this a promise that Scotland should expected their budget to be slashed once the Conservatives and Unionists win power at Westminister...
I feel the Liberal Democrats have an opportunity to ask for more :-)
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#13 (unlucky!) BrigadierJohn wrote: "I think it is just sad that nobody thinks it worth arguing with a little band of blinkered optimists.
"
Spoken like a true unionist pessimist!
I'd rather have hopes and aspirations for Scotlands' future than your 'were no good enough' incessant doom and gloom.
Maybe unionists don't post too often here becaue their agruments are more full of holes than emmental cheese.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmental_(cheese)
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#15 and 16: I asked you to prove me WRONG!! Or is that Natspeak for right?
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Well Brigadier,if unionist posters have quit this particular field there must be a reason for it.It can't have been because it was too easy for them.Maybe there is a problem with morale.Wouldn't be surprised since the foremost unionist is Iain Gray.In the meantime we keep posting until some worthy opponents come along.
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welcome back brigadier,I was going to say ,never look back unless thats where you want to go , but as you are a unionist thats exactly where you want to go! Backwards
"A little band of blinkered optimist's" It will come as no surprise that I fully disagree with that statement I can't even use pot calling the kettle black can I , as we all know optimism just doesn't happen in unionists circles in fact I'm amazed you used the word .
Sid
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John,
I expect a little better from you, John. You have not exactly commented on the new budget, so why provoke some posters here by tarring every nationalist with the same brush? You should rise above all comments, especially when there not worth replying too...
It's also not a SNP vs the world blog... it's about the budget. What is your opinion? Have you one?
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#13
I think this blog is very useful to this band of nats as it gathers and assimilates disparate sources of information. It puts the reality of events into perspective and allows us to expose the unionists for what they are in other forums. I can see why you would want to stop it.
Regarding 'blinkered optomists', there are none more blinkered than Tories who think their party will make any headway in Scotland.
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#19, BrigadierJohn,
Prove YOU wrong?
What did you come on to this board with eh?
1. Is there any point in Brian's Blog continuing?
2. It seems to have become abandoned by all the unionists.
3. All nationalists are paranoid.
4. All nationalists are blinkered optimists
5. I logged in today thinking I might cross swords with some thinking Nats.
6. Nobody gives a damn?
7. Paint drying is amazing to watch.
8. Is there really any point in this.
9. Brian Taylor won't change nor will his employers.
10.Nor will the Scotsman, Brown, Murphy etc.
Wow. You certainly came here with some reasoned arguments. I really wonder if i'll sleep tonight with all these important questions racing through my head!
LOL
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My goodness! The alarm must have gone off simultanously in a dozen little clubs where the nationalist rebuttal squad take their ease. So many hostile replies in so short a space of time. A chap might suspect it was organised, eh?
One moment things are dull and turgid, suddenly the woodwork opens as a nest of vipers (nothing personal!) is stirred by a hostile presence.
I remember it all now. Only the names change, the message is constant: Thou shalt not criticise.
Could this, just possibly, be the reason that some quite civilised unionists and others folded their tents -- that adverse comment has to be met with abuse. Think about it.
Anyway, it was fun while it lasted. Back to your self-satisfied little domains, lads. The rebel has been seen off, for now.
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You know... I will never understand people.
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From Previous thread
95. The_Concept_Of_Mind
I answered you on the previous thread. Happy to continue our discussion here. Even the brigadier may care to join in.
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The author of the Nuffield Trust report on the BBC News just betrayed her total lack of understanding of NHS funding.
She imagines that there is a single pot of money for all the UK NHS systems, and that "inefficiencies" in one part of "the system" mean less money is available elsewhere.
Unfortunately, such fundamental lack of knowledge and understanding is not uncommon in academic research.
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Brigadier. What a laugh you are. Stick your nose in, take a battering, and scuttle away again. Very unionist.
Freedom
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For those wondering why Lorna Gordon (on UK BBC News) and the BBC Scotland News were supportive of the Scottish NHS ...
The report deals with the performance of the NHS up to 2006 (under Labour control). Still they couldn't conceal the fact that there have been dramatic improvements under the SNP since 2007.
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# 25 brigadierjohn
So far all you have done is complain that there is no one available for you to cross swords with. Then you complain when some of the 'cybernats' try to give you your wish. Make up your mind.
One of the reasons why the Unionists have hidden from this blog is the lack of policies that the Unionists have to take the Nats on. Even the Labour trolls have given up on the fallacies and inconsistencies that dribble from the lips of the 'Scottish' Labour party.
One of the problems that we have is that the media up here is blatantly Unionist and will/is doing all in its power to wrest control of Scotland back from the SNP. Even the BBC which is meant to be unbiased is acting as a mouthpiece for the Unionist parties. It is the anti unionist posters on this, and other blogs, which is trying to giive an alternative to the black propaganda issuing from their outlets. However, don't think that it is just the Scots and this blog in particular that is doing this, read Betsan's blog and you will find people there who have virtually the same complaints about the glencampbelliness of the BBC and other media outlets.
The fact is that the internet is giving people an alternative to the UK propaganda machine and people are just not believing the politicians, newspapers and the once esteemed BBC anymore. They have sown the seeds and are now reaping the whirlwind.
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Hi Folks,
To the Brigadier
I asked lately about Brian actually reading this blog of his and replying to question put here by paticipants. Well I will ask you the same if you have been a regular reader and enjoyed previuos banter with the crowd could you please answer the questions which pop every now and then.
Generallly asking
1"Give us reasons to stay in the Union"
2"What benefits are there for us to stay"
Why as some believe we are such a sponging nation that surely we should be left to get on with it and therefore if we cut the ties that bind and grow or even if we fail we can blame our own leaders in this country and not someone running/ruining it in Westminster.
The budget is going to be very interesting over the next week or two. Watch and see what happens and from that what directions the attacks will be from the opposition on the run up to the GE.
As for the NHS fiasco BBC all media jumped on it from great height must be marvellous to feel so patriotic and proud to run your country down at every oppoptunity, (oops this is of course only when the SNP is running the country I wonder what kind of Utopia we would be living in if the LAB/LIB had won control)
Happy Days
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evening, despite being shown for what it was worth by numerous contributors across all their output from early this morning including their own Health correspondent for goodness sake. BBC against Scotland persists to run the story about what a private health care company think about the NHS in Scotland. do they care how foolish they look these days or do they just have more front than Blackpool beach?
Sid
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Incompetence (again) from the MoD.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/row-over-biblical-rifle-sights-for-uk-troops-1873876.html
I would say "Good God!", but that might be inappropriate given the story.
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So the brigadier returns after a lengthy absence and, without any by-your-leave, hurls abuse and wild assertions about like nobody's business.
Then, when, he's criticised, he complains about rapid nats and challenges us to prove him wrong, like a petulant child who's been denied their favourite sweetie. "I know I am, but what are you?" Don't know where he's been frequenting lately, but it's having a detrimental effect on his debating skills.
Hypocrisy has become such a way of life for these Unionists (i.e. Unionists like the brigadier) that they can no longer recognise hypocrisy in themselves. No wonder they are losing the argument.
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I`m Disgusted with the bbc and stv news there must be an election soon ,the way they mislead the public sayin that a new report shows that the NHS in Scotland is lagging behind the rest of the uk, basically at everything and getting worse. When will they report the full facts to the public . I was listening to morning extra and the guy sounded quite miffed when told the facts and i would say about 85% was delighted or happy the way NHS Scotland was doing there was also quite a few English callers to and each one said that nhs Scotland was a far better than it was England. Worth a listen to see how way off the mark the BBC are with this story, but the BBC did there job to make the scottish government look like they aren`t doing there job to the public who don`t really look into the story in more depth .
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I wonder about Wendy Alexander.
Just because a project has for whatever reason been delayed it doesn't mean you can actually spend the money on something else.
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13. brigadierjohn
"Or is there actually satisfaction to be found in repeating the cliches for their own sakes."
So try doing something other repeating cliches for their own sake.
If you have something intelligent to post, no one will stop you. In fact, intelligent opposition would be welcome.
In stead you come hear and bleat about other people's opinions claiming that other people do not have the right to express their own opinons. Typical Brit whinging.
If you have something to say on the subject--say it.
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#38 JR
"Brit whinging"
I like it.
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By the way, Oldnat, I saw you were a naughty boy yesterday and thoroughly wound up a few onionists over on PB. ;)
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I know this is a little of subject and goes against my normal view of slagging off the USA, but, after watching the horrors in the aftermath of the earthquake I wish to say that I respect the efforts given my the US government and the various US charities. It is nice to know that there are still people who want to try and help others when they are down. Well done the USA.
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39. mistydougie
"#38 JR
"Brit whinging"
I like it.
"
*curtsies*
I should trademark the phrase. I use it regularly.
Seriously, when I started reading and posting on this and a few other blogs at the time of the Al-Megrahi release I was shocked at the attitudes toward nationalists (and Scotland in general) on most blogs and of course in news coverage--constant whinging and banging on about how nationalists should just shut up.
To an outsider (which of course, I freely admit that I am) it is not attractive. If they have an argument to make, they should make it.
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41. gedguy2
"I know this is a little of subject and goes against my normal view of slagging off the USA"
Gedguy, you know that as an American I'm not slow to criticise my own country or government. I tend to see up close our faults but we also have a virtue or two. I think you have pinpointed one. We do tend to come to the aid of those struck by national disasters. I'm not saying this makes up for our faults, but I appreciate you commenting on that.
I have been so unremittingly negative toward almost everything about my own country of late that I've felt a bit bad about it. You're right. This is something I can indeed be proud of.
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40. JRMacClure
A man has to have some fun!
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brig, if you want to criticise the Scottish Government, then perhaps have a go at public transport, and by that I do not mean GARL.
If I am correct, the SNP promised to regulate public transport. Then go and award FirstGroup a nice contract on the trains until 2014.
The train services are now worse than previously. If you exclude the winter periods where things will go wrong, the overall performance has dropped, more so with peak time services.
Stewart Stevenson is useless. He refers all PQs directly to Transport Scotland who issue the standard letter. I had that process confirmed this evening (yes, another train cockup) by a passenger who just happens to be a senior employee of the aforementioned organisation, and who pointed out that (a) the duty manager was talking ********** and (b) he will be making a call tomorrow.
The SNP are making some good progress in some areas, but they are distinctly lacking in the public transport department. Fares have gone up but the companies can basically do what they like.
It might be better if we had a minister who understood transport rather than banking.
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#25 brigadierjohn
Welcome back, and perfect timing! Last time we debated, I seem to recall your positing that those in favour of change needed to prove their case less awful than the status quo.
A reasonable, if not exactly positive point, but you've arrived back with the SSA just out and showing that clear majorities of Scots want more powers than Calman offered, to the extent of the full fiscal autonomy I have always argued for and others here seem to regard as a reasonable next step.
I suggest that now's exactly the time for those positive arguments for the existing union.
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It'll be interesting watching Gray and the feeble forty six whinging tomorrow at FMQ's about cuts in the budget despite the cuts being brought on by Browns disastrous mismanagement of the economy.
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Andy Kerr MUST be a Nat double-agent....he's absolutely useless. What an embarrassment that he's the best the Labour lot have got. I'm a Nat, but we need a stronger opposition. It would be best for everyone.
CC
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Labour spokesperson 'David Whitton' on radio Scotland now - still on about GARL being cut and that that Scottish Government has lost 25000 construction jobs due to not building enough houses and schools using PFI. (building on the never never)
Everyone accepts that it is Gordon Browns management of the UK economy that has thrown us into deep recession but Scottish Labour refuse to see that. Wendy wants to use some of the slippage in spending for other stuff amounting to £1.2M to divert into GARL
SNP claim that Scotland is £814M short of the expected budget amount.
Tories nodded for budget at the first hurdle - what did they get out of it or expect to get?
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CallMeDave:
#50.
The Conservatives are urging the Scottish Government to create a back up budget for after the general elections. It gives the impression that the Conservatives are going to cut our budget, Scottish Conservatives know it's coming.
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The East Is Red
"PS I realise we've said it before, but Randall's 7.30pm prog on Sky News is streets ahead of anything the BBC broadcasts on business and the economy. Now, what was that about needing a tax-funded broadcaster because otherwise we'll lose all our quality news coverage?"
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51. At 10:45pm on 20 Jan 2010, Tom wrote:
CallMeDave:
#50.
The Conservatives are urging the Scottish Government to create a back up budget for after the general elections. It gives the impression that the Conservatives are going to cut our budget, Scottish Conservatives know it's coming.
--------------------
Whoever gets in will HAVE to make massive cuts. Some areas where they can start:
Scrap Trident replacement and opt for cruise missile instead. These can be carried on subs and are just as effective a deterrent at a fraction of the cost.
Scrap subsidised bars at Westminster.
Withdrawn from Afghanistan.
Scrap MPs expenses to the same everyone else gets - subsistence and travel.
Reduce the number of MPs in the UK.
Reduce the number of police forces - reduces the number of very senior officers.
Halt immigration.
Scrap NHS funded treatments for unnecessary procedures.
High fines for alcohol-induced crime.
Switch off lights in council buildings!
Reduce overseas aid budgets.
Scrap politically correct posts - walking wardens etc.
Scrap marketing posts in the NHS.
Scrap PFI. If necessary start buying out contracts - short term pain for long term gain. (Was that not done with the Skye Bridge>?).
Nationalise the railways again. Costs less to run.
I'm quite sure people here can think of some more!
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53. At 11:10pm on 20 Jan 2010, enneffess
Some very sensible suggestions!
I do not go along with the halting of immigration for the simple reason that we can do nothing about the European element of immigration.
I think the Australian style points system of immigration that we are adopting should be successful in letting in who we need!
Our local council have also already slashed their energy bills in the last few years and and are much better at switching off unnecessary electrical items, heating etc than previously was the case!
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enneffess:
#53.
"Whoever gets in will HAVE to make massive cuts. Some areas where they can start:"
I understand, however, our budget is already cut by 800 million but the Conservative surged the Scottish Government to be prepared with larger cuts.
"Scrap Trident replacement and opt for cruise missile instead. These can be carried on subs and are just as effective a deterrent at a fraction of the cost."
I agree.
"Scrap subsidised bars at Westminster."
I agree.
"Withdrawn from Afghanistan."
I don't agree.
"Scrap MPs expenses to the same everyone else gets - subsistence and travel."
Everyone receives different benefits. However, everything an MP buys should become state owned, including property.
"Reduce the number of MPs in the UK."
I disagree.
"Reduce the number of police forces - reduces the number of very senior officers."
I disagree, but would be happy with a reduction of senior staff.
"Halt immigration."
I disagree, I would allow immigrants with skills, however, I will be pleased to kick everyone who shouldn't be here, perhaps even reverse the number of students coming into the United Kingdom.
"Scrap NHS funded treatments for unnecessary procedures."
I agree, kinda.
"High fines for alcohol-induced crime."
I don't agree.
"Switch off lights in council buildings!"
I agree.
"Reduce overseas aid budgets."
I disagree. Instead of offering AID, we should be investing into businesses that creates employment and use our profits to continue expanding our financial and economic might throughout the world.
"Scrap PFI. If necessary start buying out contracts - short term pain for long term gain. (Was that not done with the Skye Bridge>?)."
I agree.
"Nationalise the railways again. Costs less to run."
I agree.
I believe we agree on most of the things oyu mentioned :o
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53. enneffess
"
Scrap subsidised bars at Westminster."Yes"
Withdrawn from Afghanistan."Yes"
Scrap MPs expenses to the same everyone else gets - subsistence and travel."Yes"
Reduce the number of MPs in the UK."Yes"
Reduce the number of police forces - reduces the number of very senior officers."Don't know"
Halt immigration."Yes"
Scrap NHS funded treatments for unnecessary procedures."Yes"
High fines for alcohol-induced crime."Don't know"
Switch off lights in council buildings!"Yes"
Reduce overseas aid budgets."Don't know"
Scrap politically correct posts - walking wardens etc."Don't know"
Scrap marketing posts in the NHS."Yes"
Scrap PFI. If necessary start buying out contracts - short term pain for long term gain. (Was that not done with the Skye Bridge>?)."Yes"
Nationalise the railways again. Costs less to run."Yes"
I'm quite sure people here can think of some more!"
Stop league tables.
Cap maximum wages
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27. Oldnat ... Thank you for your comments and reference; most interesting (and I will follow them up) ... However, I'm not certain it makes me 'quite wrong' to assert that CfE is uniquely and entirely Scottish; it may have antipodean roots but its implementation ancd character appear to be all ours ...
Over the last few years I have spoken to a number of teachers, including Heads and Principals (in various subjects) and studied the historical documentation that forms the basis for the structure, organisation and content of the CfE; further, I have discussed the subject at length with the Senior Educational Psychologist for a major Scottish Region ... I have to say that, taking everything I sensibly can into account, the way it has emerged makes the CfE indeed uniquely Scottish - but if you believe I'm over - stating the case please say ...
In earlier posts on other threads I have recorded that reaction (to the CfE) has been universally hostile; have you a different experience ??? ...
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57. The_Concept_Of_Mind
When I did my initial academic training (it distresses me to remember that that was 45 years ago!) I was taught to look at the internal evidence of how language was used in a document from an unknown source. I still keep up the habit. From your post -
"Principals (in various subjects)" is unusual phraseology. PTs or Faculty Heads would be appropriate, but "Principals" is a term reserved for College Heads in Scotland.
"Senior Educational Psychologist for a major Scottish Region". We haven't had Regions in Scotland since 1996.
On the last thread you made a point of explaining that "Public Schools" are actually private. Not something that needs to be explained here, though I do make that distinction when posting on English blogs.
You also talked about City Academies with a careless ease which suggests that you are well acquainted with them - unusual for anyone intimately involved with Scottish education.
I have no reason to disbelieve you when you say that you have been researching CfE, so presumably you are involved with a Scottish University, or LTS, or the Inspectorate. However, I would guess that your background is not in Scottish Education. (If it is, your terminology is woeful!)
In your research, I'd suggest that you have made some errors.
When undertaking a literature review, you really need to search well beyond the documentation that purports to be the progenitors of a policy. Apart from the tendency of report authors generally to claim originality(!) there is a consistent failure in HMIe to do other than this. After all they have their prestige and aura of infallability to protect.
Secondly, you are largely talking to the wrong generation of teachers. CfE would have been easy for my generation - our training was designed to deliver precisely that level of professional pedagogy. The new teachers coming into the profession don't seem to have a problem with it either (though I'm reliant on my daughter and her friends for that assessment). The promoted staff that you are talking to are precisely those who were trained to deliver the centrally prescribed curriculum and methodology so beloved of Tory and Labour in the late 20th century.
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I came up with that list off the top of my head. Took 5 minutes to write and that was with interrruptions from an 8 year old asking me to watch him playing a PS2!
Any political party who came up with a similar list would sweep into power. Sure, the list is not perfect and on reflection I would reword some of them.
But what are political parties afraid of? The majority of those ideas on that list could be implemented almost immediately and with no negative effect on the economy. Some may have a penalty cost attached, but this is like paying off your mortgage early.
But the greatest saving has to be scrapping of grandoise IT systems. And the MoD could do with a clear out as well.
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BBC have an interactive map which shows unemployment levels in the UK.
Aberdeenshire has the lowest, with 0.9%. Might be interesting if someone were to correlate this data, with the party in power for each constituency.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7789784.stm
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Tom Shields at his best!
http://www.heraldscotland.com/comment/guest-commentary/tom-shields-on-the-middle-class-1.999966
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Well done Nicola!
http://news.scotsman.com/politics/NHS-quango-is-forced-to.6000241.jp
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Completely changing the topic but felt I had to share this gem from the Scotsman, no its not one of the usual sort of stories they run but entitled.
Onward Christian soldiers? 'Biblical' rifle sights spark fears of religious war claim
It refers to new rifle sights bought by the MOD that have a number stamped on them JN8:12, turns out the American manufacturers have advised that this a biblical reference to the book of John chapter 8 verse 12 which says "Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life."
Absolutely bizarre, you could not make this up.
http://tinyurl.com/yful3pv
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53.
Scrap Trident replacement and opt for cruise missile instead. These can be carried on subs and are just as effective a deterrent at a fraction of the cost.
I'd agree with this for now, and discuss scrapping nuclear subs altogether at a later stage.
Scrap subsidised bars at Westminster.
absolutly.
Withdraw from Afghanistan.
I agree
Scrap MPs expenses to the same everyone else gets - subsistence and travel.
They can have 650 single rooms like university halls, and perhaps a canteen at Westminster if they can't cook, and a train/bus pass. (flights for those with island constituencies)
Reduce the number of MPs in the UK.
I'd keep the same number in the Commons for now, but reduce the Lords.
Reduce the number of police forces - reduces the number of very senior officers.
I don't think this would address the problem at hand but I think I think it could have other benefits.
Halt immigration.
I'd disagree
Scrap NHS funded treatments for unnecessary procedures.
I'd disagree, for now as I'm unsure what you'd call "unnecessary".
High fines for alcohol-induced crime.
I'm unsure if that would really have an effect on the budget, surely our legal services are not dependent on x public decency offences per year for funding.
Switch off lights in council buildings!
I'd look at a French style, no lights on shopfronts after hours policy.
Reduce overseas aid budgets.
Scrap politically correct posts - walking wardens etc.
Scrap marketing posts in the NHS.
I think these would need to be looked at in more detail.
Scrap PFI. If necessary start buying out contracts - short term pain for long term gain. (Was that not done with the Skye Bridge>?).
I'd agree with this, but I'm not sure of the extent of the bill for the entire UK, it might not be something that can be done in a single parliamentary term.
Nationalise the railways again. Costs less to run.
I'd go further and take the buses and manufacturers with them, perhaps looking at introducing the SSP's Free Public Transport policy.
I'm quite sure people here can think of some more!
The Secretaries to the devolved administrations and their respective offices should go and instead Holyrood, the Sennedd and Stormont should each send a representative to cabinet.
Constituency offices should be administered centrally with civil servants, rather than each MP responsible for setting up a constituency office and paying for it on their expenses. That should mean MPs can take a salary cut as they no longer have that under their responsibility and they'd not have control over hiring practices.
That lot will probably be enough to start with.
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44. oldnat
"A man has to have some fun!"
You did seem to be enjoying yourself. =)
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When I see the rear rows of Labour MPS cheering and clapping their hands in the Scottish Parliament, I am not sure exactly what they are doing.
1. Are they showing support for their leader,
or - is it what I suppose
2. Applauding yet another gaff and thinking, one more life lost - he really can't have many more - then we can get rid of him.
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I watched PMQs with growing disbelief at the behaviour of the Labour party.
Equally the non intervention to this pop star contest type reaction from Mr Squeeker.
Do they import the hooligan element for PMQs?
I note that it is the only time when you see a full to over flowing house.
I was listening to Radio 4 when an interview popped up with Prof.Lacklustre telling us how " professional " our journalists were and how we had to pay for them should we only read newspapers on the internet becuse " real " journalism as found in the Guardian ( his example - not mine!) costs. He continued along the lines of journalists expose the powerful and hold them to account.
And there was me thinking the last article I read by this chap was all about how he would have to leave Scotland if the SNP took over, he and his family would re locate- presumably he was relocating to take up the prof.ship in London anyway.He wrote many an anti SNP article in the run up to the 2007 election.
And the last time I'd heard anything of him was when that bastion of impartiality ,Nick Robinson , allowed the opinionated Prof .to take over his blog.
The death of the dead tree papers will not upset me in the slightest .As far as I am concerned not the credit crunch but the content and arrogance has done for them.
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66. coineach watson
"When I see the rear rows of Labour MSPs cheering and clapping their hands in the Scottish Parliament,I am not sure exactly what they are doing."
Auditioning for the PG chimps adverts.
That's unfair though.Chimpanzees are reckoned to be intelligent.
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#66 coineach D mistydougie . If I was a member of any party(other than labour) I would produce a DVD or put it on line with the heading "this is what you vote for -wake up" the general public never see their behaviour in their natural environment only in sound bites
Sid
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If you thought that the torys just might govern sensibly in Scotland if they win the UK general election, think again.
http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/news/Annabel-Goldie-We-don39t-need.6000253.jp
What Goldie is saying is we have no mandate in Scotland, we never will have a mandate in Scotland, but we do not care we will do what we want in Scotland.
It is not hard to see the influence behind the scenes of Micheal Forsyth. Thatcherism is coming back to Scotland via the Cameron back door.
Vote Labour, get Thatcher.
Vote Lib Dem, get Thatcher.
Very few vote tory but still, get Thatcher.
Vote SNP, get your country back.
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I can't quite make out the Prime Minister saying one thing in the House of Commons: "The action we are taking to counter terrorism at its source in the Afghanistan Pakistan region and elsewhere is a central part of our wider counter-terrorist strategy, and all our actions which we will update regularly are founded on what is and must be the first and most important duty of government: the protection and security of the British people." and Lady Kinnock saying something completely different in the House of Lords. I am, of course, talking about the the UK financing counter terrorism in Pakistan, Brown unveils new measures to track terrorist suspects and Statement on security and counter-terrorism.
Now, I'm not saying that someone has misled the House as this would be technically untrue. However, there does seem to be a distancing between the two speeches given in the two Houses within a short time of each other.
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The Bill being put forward by Margo MacDonald on assisted suicide is one of those subjects which will tend to stop people sitting on the fence.
Assisted suicide bill published by MSP Margo MacDonald
I am sure that many fair minded people and organisations will condemn this Bill and talk about the sanctity of life. Just one point to those types of people, will they still have the same principles when it comes to war. Surely if the sanctity of life, espoused by them, is paramount to the idea of assisted suicide then surely it must apply to war as well, from their point of view. Anything other than that is hypocritical.
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Gedguy2:
#72.
How can you stop someone who has decided suicide is the best option? At least if it was legal then the person can receive help but by ignoring the issue and hope these individuals will step forward for help in their own terms, your going to miss the point because people will go down the DIY route as they do now.
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In FMQs Salmond says that the study yesterday over-estimated the number of doctors in Scotland by 27%, rendering almost every statistic released yesterday regarding Scotland meaningless.
I wonder how much publicity the revised figures will get.
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I doubt that Brian will be bolging on FMQs today.
I just watched FMQ. That must have been Iain Grays worst performance ever, even by the high standards of uselessness he has set previously.
Anyone who could think on their feet would have changed the subject after the first question, but to continue the slaughter for four questions just shows how shallow he is.
The looks on the faces behind him as he continued digging were a picture.
Do you think it was a Labour MSP who said bring back Jack?
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FatherMacKenzie re 74
There is a rather full rebuttal of the Nuffield report in a letter to The Herald today by Michael Keating, Professor of Politics, Aberdeen University.
The link opens the letters page, scroll down to near the bottom to find the letter.
http://www.heraldscotland.com/comment/herald-letters/thursday-21-january-2010-1.1000263
Do not hold your breath waiting for the Scottish Media reporting the revised figures.
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Watched FMQs....
Truly astonished that Iain Gray raised the royal footpath story as his main issue. The FM wiped the floor with him and deservedly so.
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#75 dubbieside
"That must have been Iain Grays worst performance ever, even by the high standards of uselessness he has set previously"
Well put. I just caught his rehearsal for it on GMS and made a point of watching live his latest bungled attempt at seppuku. Nearly there, I think.
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Question Who leaked this story and told Gray to bring it up I think someone in the Lie/Lab is trying to get rid of Gray poor Brian still trying to defend Gray plus getting snide remarks in about Salmond.
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75 & 76
Saw the FM make just that point, i.e. 27% overestimate of doctors in Scotland.
And should we really take too seriously a report from a body largely concerned with private health care?
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Duff information!
I hope that BBC Scotland will now bring back the lady from the Nuffield Foundation to explain herself, or, having achieved their goal, will they just do their usual trick of allowing the poisonous information to suppurate in the public domain?
On the public footpaths at Balmoral. Even although the Home office has asked for this information not to get publicity, both Iain Gray and BBC Scotland seem set on giving it publicitymax. Why are they being so irresponsible? I hope the get it over the fingers by the security authorities.
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[Scottish Conservative leader Annabel Goldie will follow the direction set by her Westminster colleagues when she'll back a pay freeze for those in the public sector earning more than £18,000.]
Well, it's not like she's got any votes to lose over that, is it??
[8. At 2:37pm on 20 Jan 2010, InfrequentAllele2 wrote:
From the previous post :
There are two main problems facing the introduction of the Scots language into the classroom in modern Scotland. ]
This brings back memories of a previous experiment with introducing Scots language and literature into the classroom when I was in 5th year (1978, for the record.) My English class were given a copy of 'Sunset Song' and told that it would be the text we used for our Highers. Unfortunately, none of us understood it, and neither did our teacher! After a few weeks of struggling with it, several parents complained, and the book was replaced with something we did understand. ISTR that the works of Burns were also unpopular, for similar reasons. So, I agree, there's no point in doing this unless some thought and money is put into it - money we don't have at the moment. And if so few people speak/understand Scots, is it worth it? What benefit would it bring to students? In these days when modern languages are apparently being dropped by more and more schools, would anyone be interested in learning it?
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Now THAT was one thoroughly entertaining FMQs!
I genuinely predict Gray will "pull a sickie" next week.
"My point is....... My point is........ er...... um ..... My point is.."
Yes? Ian? You were saying..... Your point?
When he eventually got round to remembering it I couldn't hear it for the laughter, both that in the chamber and my own!
Can anyone tell me what his point actually was please?
Bring back Jack indeed!
Let me summarise what highlights SHOULD be in Brian's blog today.....
Ian Gray - completely demolished, and left a gibbering wreck
Richard Bacon - made a fool of, regarding abscondee prisoners
Lab/Lib/Tory en masse - left without a leg to stand on regarding Minimum Pricing
It was such one-sided slaughter, all that was missing was the closing titles....
"That was a party political broadcast on behalf of the Scottish National Party"
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Afternoon all , interestingly morning extra made a point of making a "correction" about yesterday's programme with regard to who actually produced the study & report,so the precedent has been set
tomorrow will be interesting.
surprise surprise the Tory's went with it at FMQ's "the NHS is safe in our hands" aye right, nobody believes you Annabell!
The bigger question to come out of FMQ'S is the question of who leaked the Balmoral foot paths story to the press. There is even less likelihood of it being reported by any of them .
where is the BBC Scotland investigation dept when you need them ??
Sid
PS. Who called out bring back Jack ???
It was probably Jack!!
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#64 - Constituency offices should be administered centrally with civil servants, rather than each MP responsible for setting up a constituency office and paying for it on their expenses.
You'd need to change the laws and terms and conditions which govern civil servants in that case, as they're not supposed to do work for MSPs. They're there to support the members of the Government. That would not include those MSPs in the ruling party who are not in a Government post; they'd not be allowed to do work for any other MSP either.
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Afternoon all
Off topic, but what do people make of Annabel Goldie's comments on the Conservatives having a mandate to govern Scotland in the event of a GE victory, reported at www.scotsman.com and no doubt in the print edition also?
I have written a little blog about the constitutional law position (see www.republic-of-scotland.blogspot.com), but I'd be really interested to get the view of the 'Blether with Brian' community on this: once the Tories win power at Westminster, whether this time or next time (or whenever), what will Labour/LibDem MSPs do? Back Westminster no matter what, as they do at the moment, or use Holyrood as a vehicle to oppose the Tories? Will their politics trump their unionism, or will it be the other way round?
The former, I hope, but sometimes I wonder....
R of S
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I've just read her comments and I am left open mouthed with astonishment!
ONE Tory MP at the moment, maybe even less at the GE and she has the affront to suggest that gives the Conservatives a mandate in Scotland?
I thought better of her than that.
I actually thought she was, at the very least ,sane!
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Regarding FMQ's I was waiting for Fry or Cochrane to appear at the end telling us how Gray demolished the FM.
It's a funny old world.
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#88 Harry ,afternoon, could it be that the BBC has a system like "phone a friend " in who wants to be a millionaire. you don't have 1 phone a friend you have a list . the usual suspects are all at the Parliament doing their "day jobs" and the BBC can then choose the most suitable "expert". I wasn't surprised to see the guy from the Sunday post -Mr Gray's performance was that bad!
Sid
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Not very often for me I know but I'm gonna jump in and defend the SNP on a couple of recent issues.
1. Whilst I think the tories are right to be pushing for wage freezes, I think the SNP have taken the right decision in conceding the point only for those on high salaries, and not down to 18,000. I would actually like to go further and see, if possible, unnecessarily large salaries reduced, but this is a good start.
2. GARL, yes it is probably a very important project and one which will come back to bite the SNP at the next election but, right now, it's hardly the most pressing priority giving the budget squeeze. If labour keep ranting about this they'll run the risk of appearing to have a) lost touch and b) missed the fact that we're in a recession.
3. NHS - Slightly aside from this debate but I think it's important to say that Nicola Sturgeon is right to question the accuracy of this report criticising our NHS. That said, whilst I don't think it's completely accurate and fair, I would imagine that there are a lot of lessons to be learnt from it. England does appear to run their NHS more efficiently, so maybe the govt should take a look and see if there's anything we could try up here as well. The thing that gets me about this controversy is that the nature of devolution requires that we're all going to have different NHS systems, and therefore somebody is always going to be performing best. That's hardly some national controversy. Whats important though is that we take it as an opportunity to learn and improve. Friendly competition is a good thing. Lets strive to be better than England next time around rather than dissing the report and foretting all about it.
4. I really hope we don't get much Westminster bashing in this budget from the SNP. I haven't been following much Scottish news lately so I don't know what's been happening but the way I see it is as follows;
The UK is in a recession, Scotland is also in a recession. Unfortunately there will have to be budget cuts, FACT. Everyone will have to take their share of those budget cuts, FACT. These two things are fairly obvious to 99.9% of the electorate. The SNP can score a home run here by playing it safe and saying, these are difficult times, our budget is being understandably squeezed but unlike westminster we're dealing with it. If on the other hand they go around saying "it's a disgrace that our budgets been cut" and "the reason you're not getting services is because westminster cut our budget" then I imagine most normal people will consider them to have lost touch with reality.
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#86 Republic of Scotland
Your attitude is symbolic of why the vast majority of Scots dislike and will never support nationalists like yourself.
Your belief that you're either Scottish or anti-Scottish, or more accurately your painting of all those that disagree with you as being somehow less Scottish than you is found offensive by most normal Scottish people who are proud to be both Scottish and British and don't consider the two mutually exclusive.
Unsurprisingly these comments have been taken out of context. But there was a more important point being made. If I live in a constituency where I elect a Lib Dem MSP, am I not equally justified in claiming that the SNP have no mandate to govern my constituency? The SNP set the budget for my council, and all other projects in my constituency, but weren't elected there. How is this any different?
Your claim that Lab/Lib Dem need to respond to a tory government by either being Nationalist or Unionist, is patently flawed. You don't have to be against the institution to disagree with the decisions of the institution. The labour party might not get that cos in Scotland they aint the brightest bunch, but hopefully the Lib Dems will.
Your attitudes are either ignorant or deliberately misleading. I can never work out which of the two it is with nationalists. If it's the latter though I would ask you to think about why it is you feel the need to exagerate and mislead others to support your cause? Is it because you feel your arguments alone aren't strong enough justification?
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And what to the Beeb's news bulletins focus on post FMQs - yes it's Dour Iain in full flow. Don't think that's so the whole nation can hear what a dog's dinner he makes of it, not without the response from the FM and the rest of the chamber. Nothing yet on the revised statistics for the NHS. Is BT going to ask the questions on the blether tomorrow?
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85. You'd need to change the laws and terms and conditions which govern civil servants in that case
I think changes in the law would also be required for a few other things on the list.
But if we want to cut things from the Westminster budget, I think removing the constituency offices from the control of individual MPs and having them administered centrally would help.
Firstly the MP would have reduced responsibilities and they could therefore look at a pay cut.
They would not need to claim for constituency office costs on expenses, and would also not be able to employ their spouse/best man/neighbour's dog without some form of scrutiny.
You'd also not need to sign a new lease every 5 years.
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Oh, dearie me. Is the FM that good or the opposition that bad? After being well and truly slapped down after his first question on the ‘royal path’ Gray should have realised his gaffe.
He should have paid heed to the deathly silence from the normally braying Labour ranks and looked round. The glumness of Labour faces were more eloquent than the Alex Salmond’s later put down, ‘Iain Gray should know when you’re in hole you should stop digging.’
Was the call, ‘Bring back Jack’ a derisory remark aimed at Gray or was it a genuine cry of anguish from a long- suffering Labour MSP? Perhaps a bit of both? Nevertheless, after watching Gray’s normal underperformance, very understandable.
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82. GlasgowGooner
Education equips children for the wider world and society they live in, but the practical application of a subject is not the yardstick by which the quality of education is judged. Much of what we learn in school does not have an immediate practical use. I learned how to synthesise nylon in chemistry class at school, but so far I've not found any need for that information in my daily life. There is no "need" to learn Scots or Gaelic in the sense that we must learn the languages in order to communicate with people who can't speak English, but knowledge of Scots and Gaelic unlocks a wealth of Scottish cultural heritage which would otherwise remain a closed book. It leads to a deeper understanding of Scotland, her people and her history, and that is a worthy goal in its own right.
There is a minority interest in Scots, and it and Gaelic should be available to those who wish to learn and use them. I don't propose forcing them upon people who have no interest. But during a time of budget cuts it's not going to happen anyway, there are currently more pressing concerns.
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#90 Neil Charles Armstrong- afternoon Neil. I take issue with your point 3 in post #90.
even before today's revelations that the authors of this report couldn't even count ,or deliberately falsified the figures to suit their point of view ,the report had been openly rubbished. A private health care company rubbishing the NHS , whats new?
trying to compere the NHS in Scotland & England is futile they are 2 completely different entities.
When BBC Scotland's own Health correspondent rubbished the report on GMS that morning someone at BBC Scotland should have taken note .It should have been a wake up call for them all. they chose to ignore it
In England a patient who is discharged too early to free up the bed for the next patient and is then readmitted because they were discharged too soon, counts as 2 patients for the bean counters .
I would prefer my health service to look after patients as a priority and not have a priority of box ticking and hitting targets at all costs.
Do you want to be a patient or a dot on a spreadsheet??
Care before profit
Sid
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#91 NCA
I think you're a bit harsh on #86 RoS
The problem for many of us is that we honestly believe that Scottish Labour always put Westminster interests first even if there are negative consquences for Scotland. Henry McCleish to my mind was the only one who was prepared to go out on a limb and defy Westminster.
Where are Labour MPs or MSPs fighting for Fossil Fuel levy, Scotland's due Barnett consequential from London east end regeneration, attendance allowance etc.etc. It just doesn't happen.
All the above, even more so, for the Conservatives who are North Brits rather than Scots in their politics even if their nationality is Scottish.
So it is quite justified to wonder how Labour in Scotland will react to a Conservative Westminster. Personally, I think they will implode and retreat to a small Glasgow heartland as they try to find a reason for existence
With the Tories rejected in Scotland, the future looks like SNP in Government for some years to come with the libdems emerging as the main opposition.
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58. Oldnat ...
You make a number of valid points, for which Thank You, but I note you fail (again) to answer the substantive questions (from my last responses) ... Is this FMQs ??? ... Anyway, I've tried to respond accurately to some of your comments (see below) ...
When I did my initial academic training (it distresses me to remember that that was 45 years ago!) I was taught to look at the internal evidence of how language was used in a document from an unknown source. I still keep up the habit. From your post -
"Principals (in various subjects)" is unusual phraseology. PTs or Faculty Heads would be appropriate, but "Principals" is a term reserved for College Heads in Scotland.
TCOM: I used 'Principals' as shorthand for 'Principal Teachers' and longhand for 'PTs' ...
"Senior Educational Psychologist for a major Scottish Region". We haven't had Regions in Scotland since 1996.
TCOM; Indeed ... I'm sure (in fact certain !!!) you know what I mean, even if I don't ...
On the last thread you made a point of explaining that "Public Schools" are actually private. Not something that needs to be explained here, though I do make that distinction when posting on English blogs.
TCOM: I slightly disagree here; I've found in more tham one conservation the need to explain precisely this point, but I'm assuming you mean on this blog so accept the point really ...
You also talked about City Academies with a careless ease which suggests that you are well acquainted with them - unusual for anyone intimately involved with Scottish education.
TCOM: Not unusual I hope; and I'm not imtimately involved except as a product, parent and keenly interested observer ...
I have no reason to disbelieve you when you say that you have been researching CfE, so presumably you are involved with a Scottish University, or LTS, or the Inspectorate. However, I would guess that your background is not in Scottish Education. (If it is, your terminology is woeful!)
TCOM: As above, not involved; and surely at worst lax ...
In your research, I'd suggest that you have made some errors.
When undertaking a literature review, you really need to search well beyond the documentation that purports to be the progenitors of a policy. Apart from the tendency of report authors generally to claim originality(!) there is a consistent failure in HMIe to do other than this. After all they have their prestige and aura of infallability to protect.
TCOM: This is precisely why I test my thinking against those who are intimately involved, qualified and interested ... Given the amount of bull that emanates from HMIe I'd agree they try to appear infallible (that's an attempt at humour ...) ...
I don't regard it as an error ...
Secondly, you are largely talking to the wrong generation of teachers. CfE would have been easy for my generation - our training was designed to deliver precisely that level of professional pedagogy. The new teachers coming into the profession don't seem to have a problem with it either (though I'm reliant on my daughter and her friends for that assessment). The promoted staff that you are talking to are precisely those who were trained to deliver the centrally prescribed curriculum and methodology so beloved of Tory and Labour in the late 20th century.
TCOM: Hmmm ... That's an interesting observation; is your view then that the CfE has been designed specifically to work with the generation of teachers now emerging, it's part of their training, and that current (promoted) staff will have a re - learning process to go through ??? ... Is that part of the overall introduction programme ??? ... I ask because I don't think it's the case; I've not seen this aspect formally raised ...
I don't regard this an an error either ...
I look forward to your answers here and to my previous questions ...
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#96 sid
Yes and No.
You're right that this report isn't completely accurate. As such why aren't we producing accurate reports?
One of the single, as yet untapped, benefit of having devolved administrations is that we are trying out different policies. Being able to act as grown ups and look at what is working best by comparing relative success rates is a GOOD thing.
You talk about dots on a spreadsheet, but one of the biggest things of note to me was that in Scotland we are employing 75% more managers per head of popn, partly because down south they've been on a drive to cut the amount of management and re-appropriate the money towards health spending. I don't know if this is a great thing, I think it is. What I would really like though is for my government to be looking at the different policies and determining whether or not there is scope for recognising that something has worked down south.
The problem with politics is that everyone assumes if you get a bad report card it's because you're doing a bad job. As such all everyone ever does is fight the report card, rather than reading it. 99% of the time feedback is constructive.
So I would say this,
1. Take on board the feedback, albeit with a pinch of salt, and act on the areas where you think we can benefit (rather than dissing every single page for fear that acknowledging so much as a comma is admitting defeat)
2. If you really are that upset with the accuracy of the statistics, use more accurate statistics to come up with a more accurate result.
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#99 Neil,thanks for that, well,I am stuck between a rock and a hard place now .
do I want a reduction of the managers ,yes I do urgently!
do I want private company's running the NHS in Scotland certainly not
Sid
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99. If the report had such a glaring inaccuracy as a 27% over-estimate then I'm not really sure what could be salvaged from its findings. An extra 70 doctors, potentially means they were basing their figures on an extra 70 salaries, 70 doctors worth of support staff and their associated costs, and crucially about 560 extra man hours per day in which appointments were going unbooked.
The only thing I can think of which isn't called into question by an over-estimate of doctors is the question on satisfaction. As there was no further maths involved.
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NCA re Nuffield report.
My post 76 There is a rather full rebuttal of the Nuffield report in a letter to The Herald today by Michael Keating, Professor of Politics, Aberdeen University.
http://www.heraldscotland.com/comment/herald-letters/thursday-21-january-2010-1.1000263
This before people found out Nuffield cannot count.
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Can we all agree that the nature of having separate systems is that one side of the border will do better than another? i.e. the only way for there not to be the headline "NHS in England does better than Scotland" is for it to be the other way around, which still results in either the government or the scottish government being upset.
What we really need is an acknowledgement that differences are a good thing, and an opportunity for us all to benefit, by learning from each other. We should be looking at how well NHS England is working in comparison to Scotland. It's the same organisation with slightly different policies. It's the perfect comparison for seeing what things are working in Scotland and what things aren't.
The response to this, whilst not in-accurate, has been motivated out of politics rather than out of some OCD desire to correct invalid statistics. It would be nice if we focused on getting our NHS to be the best it possibly can be so that we can laugh at America every time they insult it!
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103. Neil Charles Armstrong
"Can we all agree"
That sounds quite engaging, Neil, but this doesn't:
"the vast majority of Scots dislike and will never support nationalists"
"ignorant or deliberately misleading. I can never work out which of the two it is with nationalists."
"I would ask you to think about why it is you feel the need to exagerate and mislead others to support your cause? Is it because you feel your arguments alone aren't strong enough justification?"
"Being able to act as grown ups"
You're in your twenty-fourth year, Neil. Time to get your head out of the clouds and catch up, I think!
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Of course the NHS is more efficient in England. It dissuades you from coming to them, puts you out of hospital before it should and gives levels of pre and aftercare that wouldn't be tolerated in Scotland.
That's efficient.
I have relatives down south who routinely return to Scotland to deal with medical problems. One who lives in London wouldn't be seen dead in any NHS hospital in the London.
This report has already been blown to bits by those who know what they are talking about. One wonders why it was given such prominence in the Scottish media. No. Correction. One doesn't wonder why it was given such prominence.
I suspect it was meant to be the meat in FMQT today but had already bombed so badly that Fudd was suddenly handed another subject to make an *rse of.
The media coverage reads to me like a disgusting attack on Scotland's Health Service workers, most of whom are working their butts off in very dificult situations.
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98. The_Concept_Of_Mind
"Given the amount of bull that emanates from HMIe I'd agree they try to appear infallible"
We at least agree on that!. As to the process of implementation of CfE, I can't really comment - other than to say that some of the current staff I know are deeply involved in shifting attitudes and perceptions of PTs and other "more mature" teachers. I've been too long out of the system myself. My knowledge of CfE is limited to the discussions that led up to it.
On the subject of literature reviews, I understand that software is now available (wish it had been around when I was involved in research) which allows the comparison of documents and the tracking of key phrases from one to another. That should be really useful.
I can't remember all your questions, but let me deal with two.
International League Tables. I presume the PISA 2009 data won't be released until late this year, but the PISA 2006 data certainly doesn't show particular slippage, especially if you use measures of significance and not just crude rank ordering. There did seem to be a small improvement in the gap between the higher and lower performing students, but that still remains the problem that was identified in the OECD report on Scottish education. Which leads us on to ....
City Academies. As so often with educational innovation, the lack of rigorous evaluation of an ideologically determined structure like City Academies is lamentable. You don't need to take a school out of LA control in order to improve performance by expelling difficult pupils! You would need to justify bringing City Academies into Scotland rather than my needing to criticise them.
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103. Neil Charles Armstrong
"It's the same organisation with slightly different policies."
You actually have that completely the wrong way round! They are different organisations which have fairly similar policies in terms of desired outcomes.
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