Who ya gonna call?
The dole queue has lengthened perceptibly once more.
Unemployment across Scotland rose by 67,000 in the last quarter, compared with the previous year.
And here's the thing. The Glasgow North East constituency area retains its unwanted distinction of having the highest unemployment percentage in Scotland.
There's more. Glasgow NE has the second highest rate of incapacity benefit claims in the UK.
This much we knew. The statistics confirm what the folk in the street have told me repeatedly. They're anxious about joblessness - linked to the attendant crime and disorder.
There are long-term issues to address there. How do we revive the most deprived districts? Does public spending work effectively - or is it partly squandered?
Can jobs be directed to the poorest areas - or does that ultimately fail as the market readjusts?
Can poverty be addressed by reform of the tax system? Or benefits? Or both? How about social enterprise? Might that work better?
'Previous incumbent'
Then, there is a short-term issue - which will undoubtedly exercise the politicians most, at least for now.
Considering the by-election voters, they'll wonder: who ya gonna call? Who will get support in the light of these figures?
For Labour, this ought to be a tough by-election. It is a Westminster contest - and the UK government has not been short of problems of late.
Further, it is an "unnecessary" by-election in that it is caused, not by mortality, but by the elevation of the previous incumbent to the House of Lords.
Folk tend to dislike "unnecessary" by-elections.
Against that, the Labour machine appears to be better organised and better focused than it was during the Glasgow East defeat last year. In that respect, it rather resembles Glenrothes.
So, again, who can convince people they have the answers to today's figures? Is it Labour's Willie Bain who says he will organise a jobs summit, enlisting local employers and others.
'Multiple prejudices'
Mr Bain has fought this by-election like an opposition politician, despite the fact that it is a Westminster contest.
He has targeted what he claims is neglect of Glasgow by what he calls the "Edinburgh" SNP Scottish Government, playing deftly into multiple prejudices at once.
Is is the SNP's David Kerr who says that Labour has run this constituency or its predecessors for 74 years - with no discernible benefit to the citizens?
In particular, he has criticised the record of the Labour local authority.
Is it the Tories' Ruth Davidson who, like Mr Bain, also depicts herself as standing somewhat apart from politics: aware that the profession is in the doghouse.
She argues that this is a British by-election - and that only the Tories can take British power to effect change.
Or is it the LibDems' Eileen Baxendale who says that her experience as a Glasgow social worker equips her to deal with problems of poverty?
She offers tax reform to put more money back in the pockets of the poor.
Or is one of the other candidates standing in this by-election? No forecasts from me.
It is up to the candidates to convince the voters and for the voters to respond.
I'm 
© MMIX~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~20~RS~)
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Online Ed Here
The Scottish media and the art of smearing.
Click Here
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Online Ed Here
For Labour, this ought to be a tough by-election. It is a Westminster contest - and the UK government has not been short of problems of late.
Any party who faces no scrutiny of their clear dishonest claims and continual smearing of their closest rival won't suffer to any great extent.
It requires a media who are prepared to highlight the shortcomings of such a candidate and indeed castigate him for using such tactics.
Bain was the agent who was supposed to represent Martin when the said Martin became speaker. Bain has faced no questions on this lack of effort nor on his three days a week excursion to London.
Mr Bain has fought this by-election like an opposition politician, despite the fact that it is a Westminster contest.
As did Lyndsay Roy in Glenrothes. Both have been allowed to by the media who realised their mistake in Glasgow East when very real issues and indeed Westminster policy was debated.
Both Labour and the media know that by targetting the SNP, Holyrood and smears that Labour stand a much greater chance of escaping the wrath of the voters.
Taylor's contribution on Good Morning Scotland to todays orchestrated media smear against Alex Salmond was the final straw for me.
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dear oh dear brian,
"further it is an "unnecessary" by-election in that it is caused,not by mortality,but by the elevation of the previous incumbent to the house of Lords"
a very interesting take on the subject.interesting in as far as the bits you have chosen to ignore or leave out. tin of whitewash at the ready!
sad news for you.
you are only fooling yourself man, most have us have an attention span a bit longer than a fish, we all remember exactly why this bi-election is happening no matter how long it was delayed and no matter what Pravda Scotland try to spin.
Sid
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Online Ed Here
So, a UKIP MEP is jailed for expenses fraud ...... could an interesting few months ahead.
Also:
BBC Radio Scotland again reporting Labour attacks on The Sun over its attacks on Brown over the condolence letter.
Peter Mandelson is quoted as saying it was an example of:
"Bad taste and crude politicking"
Now, let's see - where have we seen that kind of partisan smearing before?
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BAINBUSTERS
If there's something strange
in your neighborhood
Who ya gonna call?
BAINBUSTERS
If there's something weird
and it don't look good
Who ya gonna call?
BAINBUSTERS
I ain't afraid of no Bain
I ain't afraid of nu liebour
If you're seeing Bain
Campainig in your hood
Who can ya call?
BAINBUSTERS
An invisible man
Livin in a high rise flat
Who ya gonna call?
BAINBUSTERS
I ain't afraid of no Bain
I ain't afraid of nu liebour
Who ya gonna call?
BAINBUSTERS
If ya all alone and Bain's at your door
pick up the phone
and call
BAINBUSTERS
I ain't afraid of no Bain
I here it likes the Brown
I ain't afraid of no election
Y'Y'Yeah, Y'Y'Yeah, Y'Y'Yeah Yeah
Who ya gonna call?
BAINBUSTERS
If you've had 74yrs of a
freaky liebour
Ya better call
BAINBUSTERS
Lemme tell ya something
Campaining' makes me feel good!
I ain't afraid of no liebour
I ain't afraid of no liebour
Don't get caught living in London
BAINBUSTERS
When liebour comes to your door
Unless you just want some more
I think you better call
BAINBUSTERS
Who ya gonna call?
BAINBUSTERS
Who ya gonna call?
BAINBUSTERS
I think you better call
BAINBUSTERS
Who ya gonna call?
BAINBUSTERS
I can't hear you
Who ya gonna call?
BAINBUSTERS
Louder
BAINBUSTERS
Who ya gonna call?
BAINBUSTERS
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Interesting
Separatists protest at Royal tour
The Prince of Wales's Canadian tour has been interrupted by protests from Quebec separatists.
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This would have been a reasonable blog a month ago when you could have blogged on the changes in the constituency.
Brian - Are you stung by the accurate and correct criticism of your utter failure to report the most basic facts ? Can you bring yourself to criticize labour about their legions of failures ? I think you are just too glencampblly.
Still nothing about where 'bain of glasgow' lives, how much labour MPs scammed or the dodgy postal voting tactics from guess who ?
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Brian
"There are long-term issues to address there."
Long term issues that will take decades to resolve, unfortunately our political system does not really allow for the long term view as no party can safely say they will stay in power for any longer than 4 years.
Major issues such as unemployment, neglect etc need a concerted cross party effort that can stand the test of time and not the constant petty party politicking we see day in day out.
Typical Labour telling us the Scottih Government are depriving Glasgow but nobody is highlighting their poor efforts over their period in Government, why are they not being riduculed for their affordable housing policy when they only managed a nett gain in single figures over their last 4 years in government yet the current government are being lambasted for having produced a nett gain of 3000 affordable houses since coming to power.
Give credit and criticism where its due but strike a proper balance.
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And why hasn't this atricle appeared on the main web page yet? Is it not really meant to be seen?
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I see a UKIP political crook has been jailed for scamming £39,000. What does this tell us ?
1. UKIP political crookery will be investigated by the police et al .And prosecutions undertaken.
2. UKIP political crookery will be reported and the amount stolen (Do labour voters think this is a synonymn for 'misclaimed' ?)reported.
3. UKIP politicos don't have to apologise, admit a dead man did/didn't do the work, hope for an electoral commission investigation or find their 'misdemeanours' (Everyone outside the labour party knows this is a euphemism for crimes)go unreported. UKIP political crookery is punished by jail time, and rightly so.
4. UKIP political crookery is not protected by a "get out of jail free card" .
My point is can someone in the electoral commission explain why prosecuting this politico was "in the public's interest" and NOT prosecuting labour politicos was also "in the public's interest" ? Thought not.
Finally a hypothetical question for Brian : If instead of a UKIP politico the crook was a labour politico do you think ; the story, the amount and what he used the money for; would have been reported?
Don't worry Brian we all know the answer and we have the glencampblly reports to prove it.
My prediction labour by 1500, postal vote surge and reported as a huge labour success.
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"Further, it is an "unnecessary" by-election in that it is caused, not by mortality, but by the elevation of the previous incumbent to the House of Lords."
Come on. Brian. I don't as a rule make personal comments but this is just too blatant. Classic case of lying by ommission, a terminological inexactitude no less!
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6. At 1:42pm on 11 Nov 2009, grownbordon wrote:
Interesting
Separatists protest at Royal tour
The Prince of Wales's Canadian tour has been interrupted by protests from Quebec separatists.
What's your point? Many people who support independence also support the Monarchy, not least Alex Salmond himself.
Likewise there are unionists who want the monarchy abolished.
I see we're back at hints that the postal votes may not all be above board. Again, may I suggest if you have any concerns to report them to your nearest police station BEFORE the election takes place. That way all the electoral registers can be secured.
To be honest, I think the turnout is going to be extremely low.
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I am absolutely incredulous.
the reason given for the seat vacancy does so much set as continues a dangerous trend. If any one of any political hue, including labour can agree with Brian's statement please speak now and state why you believe this. Shocking.
On another note I have to say Ii enjoy this blog for the many comments. Most are in either one camp or the other. I don't agree with the name calling and the like but on the whole it resembles a passionate 'chat' round a pub table. Keep it up.
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12 Neil_Small147
Now Now Neil, no need to get your knickers in a twist.
I also support the Monarchy. I was merely pointing out an article that I thought was interesting. hence the comment Interesting.
How did you jump to the conclusion that I don't support the Monarchy based on the word Interesting? I suggest you give your crystal ball a good polish
I quite enjoy a trip up to Balmoral.
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Brian is of course quite correct, in a strictly literal move-along-there's-nothing-to-see-here sort of way. This by-election was caused by the elevation of Michael Martin to the House of Lords.
It's a bit like reporting a traffic accident saying that the crash was caused when a car hit a lamppost - but not telling us why the driver lost control of the vehicle. We are left to believe that the lamppost may be equally guilty. Perhaps the lamppost was speeding in a built up area. It was probably a lamppost with an SNP poster fixed to it.
We all know why Michael Martin is no longer behind the steering wheel in the House of Commons, even if the BBC doesn't want to report it.
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#12 Neil_Small147
I was actually more drawn to the use of the word separatists. I wonder how long it will be until the BBC start using this word to describe the SNP & Supporters of Scottish independence and inclusion, when it is actually the UK that separates & isolates Scotland from the rest of the world.
Isolationists quite a good word to describe unionists.
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Labour have reacted very defensively to George Galloway's intervention in the by-election in favour of Tommy Sheridan.They would have brushed his comments aside if they had been feeling confident.Could this be a straw in the wind?
Regarding the line in the blog about Michael Martin's elevation to the Lords causing the by-election.Come on guys,isn't it just that Brian has a very dry sense of humour?
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#17- afternoon ,dougie, even if Brian has a dry sense of humour I don't see many people laughing.
I agree with #13 shennachi, and so far the blog hasn't exactly been inundated with support for the statement now has it? we will see what this evening brings!
Sid
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Ghost Busters!
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This blog is a waste of space - a dead donkey with a red Labour rosette would still win here - I mean, just LOOK at what voting Labour has got them over the years - people would give their eye teeth to get a house here and all done by those wonderful Labour politicians and ESPECIALLY Mr Martin- remember him??? he just ordered taxis everywhere, pretty much like the population here. A real showpiece of what forever voting Labour gets u.
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#18 'even if Brian has a dry sense of humour I don't see many people laughing'
Hello Sid.I said Brian had a dry sense of humour.I didn't say it was hilariously dry.
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Vote labour - look what YEARS of doing just that has given u - a neighbourhood the envy of the rest of Scotland - vote Labour for a terrific standard of living - YOU KNOW IT MAKES SENSE.
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Comedian Eddie Izzard today took to the streets of Glasgow North East in support of Labour candidate Willie Bain...
How very appropriate!
http://news.scotsman.com/politics/Comedian-Eddie-Izzard-campaigns-for.5815151.jp
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Online Ed Here
I can reveal that the BBC has been forced to issue an apology to a senior SNP MSP after a particularly shocking broadcast. The apology is not the first private apology to be made by this increasingly politically corrupt organisation to a seniior SNP politician.
The BBC are refusing to broadcast the apology - Newsnet Scotland will cover the story in Edition 5; to be published this Sunday.
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Online Ed Here
Best bets:
John Smeaton to get less than 1000 votes - Evs (Ladbrokes)
To finish third 'anyone but Smeaton/Tories - 5/1 (Ladbrokes)
Value bet:
SNP win - 9/2 (Bet Fair)
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Brian - how can Labour criticise the SNP for neglecting Glasgow bearing in mind that there has been UK Lab governement for the past 12 years, Labour was in power in Scotland for 8 years until 2007 and the ruling party in Glasgow city council is labour. Viewing all this from the north east of Scotland, it seems incredible that Labour can complaim about neglect when Glasgow's local authority funding from the Scottish Government is around 50% higher than that paid to Aberdeen City Council. The statistice for health spending are similar. That is the same Aberdeen City Council which has had to make massive cuts in spending and is looking at making 600 hundred employees redundant. It is hard for many Aberdonians to listen to this nonsense particularly when Aberdeen city generates so much tax revenue both for the UK government and also for the Scottish government through business rates and sees so little back. I accept that there is deprivation in parts of Glasgow but the question is, how long should Glasgow continue to be subsidised? Is this an indefinite commitment? Should be recognise that populations should be encouraged to move to where there is work or at least not be encouraged to stay in places where there is no work through subsidy?
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Hi Gang,
The use of "Martin's elevation to the house of Lords" as a reason for this election was also used at 09:03 by the newscaster on Radio Scotland, before the discussion on "Remembrance", subtly ironic don't you think.
I don't think Brian reads or worries what the bloggers say on this site, I think it would be quite interesting to have a podcast with Brian answering the questions that are fired to him from this site, possibly after he has removed his "Cyclop" red visor. Would that be allowed???
There was a little survey the other day of local people asked who they would vote and who would win, I think it was by that fair and unbiased paper the Daily Record/Sunday Mail.
One person said he didn't like what had happened in his area etc thought SNP would win but will vote Labour Don't figure!!!
I agree with the statement of reporting the postal vote if people are worried about dodgy dealing.
Well one day to go and hopefully people will see the light hopefully!!!!!!
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Here. I'll give Brian Taylor his laugh because that is the BEST it deserves.
the elevation of the previous incumbent to the House of Lords.
Hahahaha! Hilarious! The WHOLE truth and nothing but the truth, eh, lads?
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#28 Relutant-Expat
Welcome back old-timer!
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And when a certain "news reporter" on-air smears a certain senior politician, does anyone think that a private is what the public deserves?
Does he?
And does a certain "news reporter" (or should I say editor?) have eve a tiny bit of honest in his soul?
Just a couple of questions, although of course no one at BBC would be guilty, now would they?
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And for people who want to say that concerns about postal vote fraud are just the SNP trying to excuse a loss, let me remind you this has been a worry all over the UK for YEARS.
WEST MIDLANDS
NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE
SPARKBROOK
A TINY sampling of the UK-wide problem.
There is good reason to worry about the very poorly controlled postal vote.
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Nedafo2:
#26.
Yes, I suspect your a fellow Aberdonian and yes, I too am annoyed of the amount of attention and financial backing Glasgow receives compared to Aberdeen.
It's not realistic to ask people to move in order to find work. There is simply not enough council housing, so where can low earners live in order to do these jobs elsewhere?
The main issue I have is that funding for Glasgow is being spent pro-longing and encouraging individuals to continue a miserable existence of living in poverty. I personally consider it a crime against humanity for backing generations of unemployed. Do we continue to encourage a welfare system in order to feel better about ourselves? If we honestly cared we would put all the funding into encouraging businesses to start up and take on apprentices.
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How interesting that of the two 'featured' Glasgow NE stories on the main Scotland politics the one given most prominence is the unattributed Final push for by-election votes, clearly from BBC Scotland whereas the other, Is Labour facing Glasgow upset? is from Laura Kuenssberg [who doubles as Nick Robinson's holiday relief] from BBC London.
The BBC Scotland piece highlights NuLab's claim that "the poll would be a `referendum on the treatment of Glasgow´ by the SNP" but is otherwise fairly factual. It even mentions that the formerly honourable but currently noble Baron Martin of Springburn "resigned amid the Westminster expenses row", which one has to admit is marginally less glencambly than Brian can force himself to be.
OTOH, Laura K clearly hasn't benefitted from a Scottish media course on politics and manages to mention things like a voter's comment that "People here would vote for a donkey if it was next to the Labour box on the slip"
She even avows "As one man said to me: `I've been a Labour man all my life, but they're all out to line their own pockets. I'm thinking about moving to the Scottish National Party now´."
Not quite the examination of Bain most of us posting here would like to see, but not glencambly either.
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"SNP forgot to sell us independence". Independent MSP (and former leading light of the SNP) Margo MacDonald writing in tonight's Edinburgh Evening News:
http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/comment/Margo-MacDonald-SNP-forgot-to.5813118.jp
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...and from the same paper Tory MP Michael Gove "blasts SNP for playing a game of 'divide and rule'" . Dismissing the idea a Tory government with only a handful of Scottish MPs would have a questionable mandate north of the Border, he argues that 'Surrey has no Labour MPs but still works with the Gordon Brown government'
http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/politics/Top-Tory-blasts-SNP-for.5813100.jp
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Online Ed Here
This blog link, usually found in the politics section, has gone. Another less obvious link can be found in the main news section.
Why remove it from it's usual place?
On the BBC apology:
The apology follows a BBC Scotland broadcast during the last SNP conference in Inverness and wasn't about the beginning of Salmond's speech.
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WHOA! WHY has no one pointed out a HUGE inaccuracy in Brian Taylor's blog? (Now I'll assume this was a typo. I've made enough of them today myself. BUT it is a serious one)
Unemployment across Scotland rose by 67,000 in the last quarter, compared with the previous year.
No, it most certainly did NOT. I'll quote a BBC headline from today.
The number of people unemployed in Scotland rose to 194,000 in the last quarter, 67,000 more than last year.
According to the main page BBC article, it is it 67,000 more than last year does NOT mean that that rise was in the last quarter. In fact the BBC article says it rose by 4,000 and although it is rather poorly written (to be frank) apparently that is a quarterly figure.
I am about to go to the BBC complaint page and file a complaint about this Brian Taylor blog. I'm sorry, guy. But on top of shall we call it, for the sake of the moderators, incomplete truth telling about "Lord" Martin AND a rather blatant inaccuracy on the unemployment figure, it deserves to be reported.
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31. JRMacClure
"The BBC aren't guilty... ;-)"
Just look at their track record. They are the BBC, they'll do what they want... Forgetting to criticise ole Mrs Whitehouse for a moment, it is the case that the Beeb arrogantly defied her. I suspect the heads use their old mandate to "inform, educate and entertain" as a licence (ooch!) to do as they please, they are above being advised. Same "We're the BBC, get out of my way" attitude still prevailing today.
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38. JRMacClure
Is Taylor like the headmistress of my cousin's old school, nearing pensionable age and not interested in upsetting her masters before reaching it. Result there was untackled bullying and the victim schoolchild being blamed as being the one with all the flaws. Look out for a book of poetry coming from our old Brian in a short few years...
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37. U14094468
MacClure's maybe got another case for an apology, in her #38 ;-)
The bungling Beeb.
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23. raisethegame
Well, he is totally in touch with reality....
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28. Reluctant-Expat
Humorous :-D
Try again Expants?
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40. vere_scribo
He's 54...
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39. vere_scribo
That was sarcasm. If I actually called it by the "L" word, the post would be moderated and removed. I know this from previous experience.
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I've seen Brian Taylor do some glencampbelly blogs, but with this one he has plunged the depths.
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45. JRMacClure
One knows.... ;-)
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46. JRMacClure
If you read his profile (somewhere hovering around his first blog...) his first love is poetry not journalism, which it seems he turned to for a living seeing there was no money in the former. Does explain his lovely writing style, which he sometimes takes care to present. I suppose it could be like the employee who languishes terminably at the council because it safer there, the Beeb being that safe establishment - long term employment 'cause there's no volatile advertisers to keep happy, IF he doesn't cheese off his boss.
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Eddie F_____g Izzard no less!
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34. Brownedov
I think that the second story that you refer to I think that the second you refer to: Is Labour facing Glasgow upset? is a pretty balanced and reasonable article. It doesn't blatantly favor any one party or candidate and tells what looks to me like the truth about this bye-election.
I wouldn't normally consider BBC London to be all that much better on the truth-telling scale but in this case I have to ask: WHY can't BBC Scotland manage just simple unbiased coverage like this?
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Don't be nasty to poor Brian, he has enough problems; what with supporting Dundee United and the Scottish (soviets) Labour party, neither of whom could be said to be doing well , though one of them has got a reasonably good manager. Maybe he should have stuck to writing poetry, there are plenty of " Holy Willies " in Holyrood could do with the Burns treatment.
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Pedant alert!
"by the elevation of the previous incumbent to the House of Lords" is factually wrong.
Martin resigned his seat. That "triggered" the by-election (though perhaps not the best metaphor for something that took 6 months to call!)
His "elevation" to the HoL came later. Tut Brian!
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52. oldnat
Good morning. And welcome back to the land of accurate reportage.
As I pointed out in my strictly non-pedantic way, the employment figure is a rather huge inaccuracy as well. If unemployment in Scotland ever rose by 67,000 in ONE quarter, you might well see rioting. It did not even happen.
I suggest a word or two to the complaint department.
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51. kaybraes
Indeed and in my pedantic way, may I quote a sentiment that I'm sure Mr. Taylor and the good Lord Martin would share:
Lord, bless Thy chosen in this place,
For here Thou hast a chosen race:
But God confound their stubborn face,
An' blast their name,
Wha bring Thy elders to disgrace
An' public shame.
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A colleague of mine lives in the aforementioned constuency for the bye-election.
He got a leaflet from Labour through the door, and it is a bit of a smear campaign.
And it focuses on the "birthplace flipping". While I disagree with smear tactics, you would have thought that someone in the SNP campaign team would have spotted this a mile off, since the other parties did. Birth / live / work place flipping is a common tactic in elections, and not normally paid attention to.
However, the SNP is dealing with a hostile media and this sort of thing is going to cost them votes.
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#5 grownbordon
Naw according to this article:
Pound tumbles after Fitch issues triple-A rating warning.
Who we need are the DebtBusters.
But we all know who will pay for Duff Gordon’s Debt Binge.
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Mandelson for 'Minister for Information'?
Phew, as if Unelected Meddlesome has not enough of a remit in government he is to be given another one Minister for Misinformation. Supposedly to keep the MSM on the right track, his.
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#50 JRMacClure
"I wouldn't normally consider BBC London to be all that much better on the truth-telling scale but in this case I have to ask: WHY can't BBC Scotland manage just simple unbiased coverage like this?"
Neither would I re BBC London, but I frankly have no idea re BBC Scotland. Unionism from the BBC I can understand given its kingdom-wide remit and natural fear for its own future should devolution prove a mere stepping-stone rather than a "final solution". Both BBC London and BBC Scotland have shown themselves rather too pro the NuLab establishment of the past decade not to be concerned about what changes of government are likely to bring.
Some in BBC London do, however, seem to be becoming more realistic and Laura K seems to belong to that school. See her NR holiday relief threads here.
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#52 oldnat
"Martin resigned his seat."
Pedant alert 2!
What utter twaddle. He did no such thing!
By accepting the position of Crown Steward and Bailiff of the Manor of Northstead [an office of profit under the crown] he became ineligible to be an MP and was thrown out of the House of Cards.
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"How do we revive the most deprived districts? Does public spending work effectively - or is it partly squandered?"
Delete "districts". Insert "communities".
For "we" meaning middle class Scotland/UK, alter the meaning to "we" if we live in such communities.
Dependency weakens people. An expectation that "they" will solve our problems disempowers people. Of course, public money is required but much more of it needs to be spent within the community, and not on the middle-class, professional council workers who are parachuted in during the day, then go home to Bearsden in the evening.
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59. Brownedov
LOL! Fair enough - but I'm still righter than BT wos!
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I believe heavy rain is still predicted for Glasgow tomorrow, is it not?
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61. oldnat
Tsk! You want to set a higher standard for righterness than that! I'm shocked. ;-)
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Online Ed Here
There is now no link to this blog on either the main Scottish news page nor the Scottish politics page.
That's a pity, for there are very many interesting posts pointing out:
Brians inaccurate blog content and my revelation that the BBC in Scotland have been forced to apologise to a senior SNP politician after a misleading TV broadcast in the midst of the Glasgow North East by-election campaign.
They are also refusing to broadcast the apology.
Now, imagine this had hapened in England and the BBC had maligned a senior Conservative MP in the middle of a by-election and had been forced to apologise but refused to broadcast the apology.
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Blether (n) : idle or foolish and irrelevant talk
At least Brian is accurate, with respect to his own contribution, in the title of his blog.
Alex W, PA
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#61 oldnat
"LOL! Fair enough - but I'm still righter than BT wos!"
Definitely, sir! I'd hate to be labelled the class swot.
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62. JRMacClure
http://news.bbc.co.uk/weather/forecast/6
Depends on when those who are inclined to vote decide to head for the polling station.
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I should mention that today is the day we in the USA refer to as Veteran's Day. I'm sorry to say it doesn't get the universal respect that your Remembrance day does, nor will I comment on the President's pledge to "do right by them".
This is last poem I'll quote for a while... You have my word on it.
God knows 'twere better to be deep
Pillowed in silk and scented down,
Where love throbs out in blissful sleep,
Pulse nigh to pulse, and breath to breath,
Where hushed awakenings are dear...
But I've a rendezvous with Death
At midnight in some flaming town,
When Spring trips north again this year,
And I to my pledged word am true,
I shall not fail that rendezvous.
I'd say God help us... but it's up to us instead.
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66. Brownedov
We know "Vodenworb" is Swiss for "rebel" ;-)
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63. JRMacClure
"You want to set a higher standard for righterness than that!"
If I want to apply for a job with STV, I need to be righter, but not rightest. :-)
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35. raisethegame
The essence of Margo Macdonalds comments are right, the SNP strategy is all based on negatives for the referendum, everyone's against us, everyone's trying to deny us our right, everything will be better if we are independent.
Everyone knows this is not true. there are a number of positive arguments that can be made and should be made. I am in a sizeable number, I am happy being British and Scottish. I don't see good reasons for such a huge change, the positives just have not been made clear. If I thought some of the serious problems regarding political representation and the isue discussed on the previous blog sectarianism were to be tackled by the new constitution I might well change my mind. But whats on offer just now, no thanks.
I hate campaigns based on negativity, the recent campaigns are all based on negativity, some of this banal debate just turns people off politics. We need some positive arguments for Independence, not Brave-heart arguments, but sensible debates offering genuine arguments of positive ways we can move forward.
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Anybody wanting a rant better do it tonight as we will have our socks moderated off tomorrow in case we post, and the BBC publishes, anything that might possibly be construed as liable to influence in any way the voters in Glasgow North East
It's a pity that sins of omission don't count.
PS Due to the ineligability of persons holding an office of profit under the Crown, Mr Martin, like the Norwegian Blue, ceased to be and so could not be thrown out.
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67. oldnat
Depends how quick or slow the low "moves."
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#69 vere_scribo
And wasn't "Tandlo" the heldentenor who gets bumped off in Act 1 of "Aida" for rising up against the Egyptians?
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WARDOG then support whales.
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Pointing to Scottish Labour MPs, the egregiously articulate former Labour MP George Galloway is reported by The Herald to have declared that they had got fat on the unthinking, uncritical, "blind-thinking" of people in constituencies like this. Well, he would know, would he not? His condemnation of his former 'comrades' would appear to say all that needs to be said about the likely outcome of the by-election in Glasgow North East, except perhaps that the fact that it is taking place so close to a UK general election probably means that the turn-out will be even lower than usual, of course, which may favour the SNP to some extent, presumably.
What on earth can these poor folk possibly imagine that the party that has wrecked the finances of the UK so that the Scottish Government's budget has been cut and will be cut much further can possibly manage to do for them? Increase their benefits? Let us be honest. That is what most voters in constitutencies such as this are looking for. But that is hardly possible now, is it? The chances are, however, that many of these people do not know this. And what is the state of affairs of which they may be presumed to have little understanding and which the Labour Party has created as a result of overspending when it should have been saving and when it was failing to regulate the financial sector and failing to develop a balanced economy?
The Labour UK government borrows money each year to pay back the interest it owes on money already borrowed! Very many UK citizens have debt on credit to the tune of tens of thousands of pounds, not including mortgages. House prices in England went so silly before the recession that the average first-time buyer was 35 years old before s/he could even get onto the ladder. The UK pays its statutory old-age pension from the previous month's tax receipts (not much of a buffer there for any disasters)!
25 per cent of the UK's GDP came from the financial sector. Its financial institutions are insolvent, or would be if the UK government had not ponied up some budget-busting bail-outs. 70 per cent of UK GDP comes from service industries (including banks). This will surely sink massively. The UK does not actually do very much any more that is of value to the rest of the world now that the financial mania has gone. It used the City/Treasury to milk money through stock exchanges, oil bourses and selling crap paper to Second or Third World countries in exchange for their physical goods.
While all these shenanigans have afforded many Brits the luxury lifestyle that they have become accustomed to: the plasmas, the X5s, three hols a year, etc., one has the uneasy feeling that it has all been a sham and that they are being called out on it now.
One does not see anyone stepping forward with a brave plan to re-invigorate the UK economy, although one does see a bold plan from the SNP for a re-invigorated independent Scottish economy within the EU and the eurozone. Quantitative easing is a short-term fix but a long-term disaster in the making. The UK finance minister is a lawyer. The UK PM is a failed finance minister. Middle England has no confidence in either of them. Moody's knows the pressure it is under to maintain the UK's triple-A status: if it downgrades, it will trigger a series of writedowns that could be catastrophic.
So what? Your average voter in Glasgow North East would not know what I am talking about, so far down the food chain has s/he been pushed by the Labour Party, which deserves to be kicked out of office for what it has done to Glasgow, Scotland and the UK. Too bad it will mean a Tory UK government, but nil desperandum; every cloud has a silver lining. Let us hope so.
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The Scottish media Labour bias is Scotlands cancer.
It will only be cured when the people of Scotland cure it.
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#69 vere_scribo
"We know "Vodenworb" is Swiss for "rebel""
Aye, right.
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#70 oldnat
If I want to apply for a job with STV
I must be a long time retired then. I had no idea that you now have to be voted a job. How does it work with STV? Presumably you get an interview with the group you'll be working with and they vote. Or do all the job seekers have a hustings and then they vote for one to go forward?
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Ah, here you are, hiding.
Well, I'm looking forward to tomorrow, its the tedious waiting I can't stand. Politics should be about doing things. Looks like a low turnout. People are sickened by Labour and the troughers. The SNP have struggled to be heard and have not been brutal enough in my view. By-Elections are about raising passions and energising people. This one has been played low-key by the media, we all know why. I'll be glad to see the back of it and look forward to the GE. No denying that one, eh Brian ?
If Labour win, nothing for the people of NE Glasgow will change. But then people are used to that and have been happy with it for some time. So a pitiful victory for Labour probably. Worthless to everyone concerned. Broon is finished and we must all endure the anguish of the death agonies. But it should be cathartic. Dave will certainly invigorate us all.
Bring it on.
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71. northhighlander
"If I thought some of the serious problems regarding political representation and the isue discussed on the previous blog sectarianism were to be tackled by the new constitution I might well change my mind. But whats on offer just now, no thanks."
I'll leave others rebutt to your attitude and my only contribution will be "I'm all right Jack to hell with others future." sad.
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71. northhighlander
"If I thought some of the serious problems regarding political representation and the issue discussed on the previous blog sectarianism were to be tackled by the new constitution I might well change my mind."
Why do you want these issues to be embedded in the constitution by our generation? These are political, not constitutional issues (other than the EHCR covers sectarianism, and sectarianism will be unconstitutional as it is now).
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71. northhighlander
What neither she nor you address is why this argument should be made before the fact. There is yet no referendum before the people. If Labour and the Tories have their way it will NEVER be put before the people. So a campaign to convince people of the necessity of independence would be beforehand and would, indeed, be a waste of time, effort and money.
And I get awfully tired of unionists dragging up a 15-year-old movie which no one even respects and wasn't made by a Scot (you might recall) as though that were the argument for independence.
It never was. Speaking of negative arguments.
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76. Sgniteerg
One of the more eloquent arguments for independence I've come across.
I take back what I said. The argument has indeed been made by many Scots. It is nonsense to say that it hasn't.
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#72
Um. What is referrable about a warning that Election Rules will apply tomorrow?
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79. handclapping
I hate explaining a joke - so I won't.
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A British matter for a British by-election
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/defence/6546899/Ministry-of-Defence-officials-paid-47-million-in-bonuses.html
"Ministry of Defence officials paid £47 million in bonuses"
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I noticed an interesting point over on Subrosa's Blog and wasn't sure what to make of it. But then, it doesn't seem to affect Scotland so perhaps it's off-topic.
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*wipes eyes from laughing*
Hootsmon Headline
Conan the Librarian hits it dead on again. I really needed a good laugh. Thanks, Conan, wherever you are.
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#85 handclapping
"What is referrable about a warning that Election Rules will apply tomorrow?"
Could someone want these threads closed down tomorrow, as they were briefly while the polls at Glenrothes were open?
They're not easy to find, but do be aware that there are
Special House Rules During Election Periods.
In particular, you should note that:
The message boards will remain open on Polling Day, but users must refrain from
discussing the election while the polls are open. Usual BBC House Rules will resume
once the polls are closed.
These will no doubt be rigorously applied from 07:00 to 22:00 GMT/UTC
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85. handclapping
Where are the Election Rules? Or are you not allowed to tell me? =)
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Online Ed Here
Labour smears continue tomorrow with 'cover up' slurs being thrown about by Labour over some recent unfortunate deaths.
Labour will use the deaths of young and old in order to smear the SNP.
Oh, this blog is now effectively closed to all but those of us who can locate it without the regular links - they've been removed.
Whatever the outcome tomorrow, the struggle will continue against the BBC, Labour and the rest of the rotten Unionist establishment that is sucking the life from Scotland.
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#87 oldnat
The Romans had an answer for non-performing military. They called it decimation.
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Interesting video from John Harris of the Guardian here. See the welcome from Springburn folk to the BNP at 4:40 in.
I think Harris asks Bain more difficult questions in the space of 2 minutes that anyone else has over the last 2 weeks.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/video/2009/nov/11/glasgow-north-east-byelection
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85. handclapping
It means we are gagged by the supreme order on high and mighty not to mention anything to do with Glasgow as we might be influenceing the result and we can't have us minions not toeing the line now can we.
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90. Brownedov
Thanks. I had indeed done a search for them and turned up everything but...
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So UK politics are all right? How about Edinburgh? Or is that too close? Or are politics in general verboten?
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Quirkies
RyogaHibiki suggested that since we don't get many Unionist arguments on here that there should be a link to those Unionist blogs we can identify on quirky. It's available in the Resources section. Feel free to add to the list.
NB Please don't include this one, the Herald, Scotsman etc!
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93. handclapping
"They called it decimation."
Indeed! That's why, when we got whipped by Calgacus at Mons Graupius, I deserted and joined the Scots.
Oops! I've revealed my age! :-)
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#90 Brownedov
Thanks for that. As the polls will be open by the time I'm up, I'll probably spend the day at another place. I'm quirky like that.
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97. JRMacClure
Essentially, anything that the mods decide is a direct reference to the by-election might be banned. If there are too many, they will simply close down the blog until 10pm. That's what happened during the Glasgow East by-election.
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100. handclapping
"I'm quirky like that."
I've opened a thread on quirky for open discussion, for those who want to discuss verboten items during polling hours.
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The well-connected Jackie Ashley reveals the following sensational comment in her Sunday Guardian column:
Some Labour people may think I'm sounding too gloomy, but those who have been privy to recent private polling are a lot more than gloomy. This suggests that Labour could return to the Commons with just 120 MPs or thereabouts, taking the party back to 1930s territory.
By the way the wreckage described above is not from Murdoch but Jackie Ashley normally regarded as a NuLabour insider in a newspaper many people regard as supportive of NuLabour.
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100. handclapping
Strange people in these parts. ;-)
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I don't recall that this has been posted here. (Sorry if I missed it) It's not bad. Not great but, in my opinion, not bad:
The battle for Glasgow North East
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#99 oldnat
Och, you may be a Roman from Aberdeen but at least you're not Brown the Unwise with his motto "Alba delenda est"!
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By the way Nick Robinson is stating on his blog that budget timing rules out March GE.
NR Blog
It won't be March
The Tories have been worrying away about the possibility of a March election giving Gordon Brown an element of surprise.
Now George Osborne's backroom team have found a reason to stop worrying unless, that is, Gordon Brown wants to go to the country without having a Budget.
The date of the Pre-Budget Report was announced today as 9th of December. The Code for Fiscal Stability ([Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]) which Gordon Brown put into law in 1998, states that there must be "at least three months" between the Pre-Budget Report and the following Budget.
Thus, the earliest possible date for a 2010 Budget is the 9th of March. That is after the latest possible date - 1st of March - on which Gordon Brown could call a March election.
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Willie Bain just doesn't get it. I heard him wittering on in the Six news about devolved matters. He's about as clued up as was Lindsay Roy. Obviously completely oblivious to the Westminster remit.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
105. JRMacClure
"The battle for Glasgow North East"
I hadn't seen that. Thanks. Interesting to see that an English (Labour supporting) paper is using video to boost its support. Mind you, I doubt that many people in Glasgow NE read the Guardian, or log on to its website.
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107. Roll_On_2010
Isn't it more likely that he would dissolve the government in March for a later election?
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107. Roll_On_2010
But it's been pointed out that a GE could be called anyway - leaving the incoming SNP/Plaid/LD coalition to have to govern for a few weeks before deciding the Budget! :-)
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110. oldnat
Probably right. But as usual, I am fascinated at seeing something from an English publication that is Labour supporting that is more balanced that what has been done anywhere in Scotland. Not perfect, certainly, but I would judge it as being a reasonable piece.
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Haha! Ok, I'm in trouble for posting something in Latin. Is it because of what it meant or just because it's Latin? =)
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#107 Roll_On_2010
"By the way Nick Robinson is stating on his blog that budget timing rules out March GE."
Yes, read that, but Tory blogger Ian Dale disagrees with him with:
March Election Ruled Out - Or Is It?
He has a point, but ends with: "So my bet has always been on June 3rd or April 15th or March 25th. Which, given my record on predictions, means it will definitely be May 6th!"
My own view is that if Duff Gordon is still PM it will be June. If anyone else takes over, they may want it earlier but probably won't have time to put any new faces or policies in place before then either.
BTW, your link was ruled out of order because it was to a PDF, but Dale quotes from it and links to the PDF.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Re 82 Oldnat
I am referring to two simple issues. the draft constitution does nothing to prevent us mortals outside the central belt form swapping Westminster domination for Edinburgh domination. There is no commitment to a system of devolved local representation apart from the Islands for some strange reason. the current draft constitution and SNP policy makes no effort to tackle this very real problem.
A constitution that embraced local decision making would be a good start. Of course that means politicians giving up power, not likely to happen. It always strikes me as strange that the SNP so in favour of getting rid of the UK makes no effort to embrace local decision making.
The sectarian issue I refer to would be a commitment to no state funding of Faith Schools, similar to the US system.
But again this would take political courage, not likely to happen.
However both are issues that should be considered in any constitution as fundamental basics of a new Scotland.
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114. JRMacClure
Thanks for posting in what you no doubt thought was my mither tongue. However, I'm also a Carthaginian Nubian, and that totally destroys the BNP idea of British ethnic purity :-)
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117. northhighlander
I don't see any reason why you couldn't have some kind of republican or confederation type setup with local powers. I'm thinking more along of the Swiss Confederation than US states, but that looks to me like the kind of government that would provide a lot of local control and would be workable for a country the size of Scotland. Just a thought from (as you have pointed out) the outsider. ;-)
It is something for which one can, after all, push and campaign.
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118. oldnat
They obviously have a grudge against your not-mother-tongue, I'm sorry to say.
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117. northhighlander
"Faith Schools" Actually, in Scotland, you mean Catholic schools. This has been debated frequently on here. I've made my position clear. I want to see a secular education system which means your local Primary school and Wick Academy are banned from holding religious assemblies, from holding services which "assume" that the Kirk of Scotland minister is the appropriate person etc etc. I worked in supposedly "non-denom" schools for almost 40 years. In practice they were Kirk of Scotland schools. Ban those practices and there is no more need for Catholic schools. Allow those practices and effective prosyletisation of Catholics by Presbyterians will continue - and that is unacceptable.
I have no objection to privately funded faith schools.
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117. northhighlander
I have always disagreed with the SNP Draft Constitution with it's unicameral legislature. A model based on something like the US Constitution where the Senate is not like the UK HoL - a "revising" chamber, but one of the aspects of the constitution of checks and balances, seems far wiser.
Neither of the issues you raise is an argument against independence. Indeed it is an argument for Scots deciding their constitution.
If you stick with the UK you also stick with Parliamentary Sovereignty. Ultimate power does not lie with the people - Brits or Scots - but with MPs, Lords and the monarch. If you want that, feel free to vote for subservience.
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83. JRMacClure
In order to enable the constitutional change that the SNP would like to see, it is necessary to build a consensus amongst the population of Scotland eligible to vote. Any referendum would only be one step on the way to achieving such a consensus.
It will be almost impossible for the whole idea to proceed without building a consensus. To do this needs some real positive arguments to convert those opposed to the idea. The efforts so far have not been good, the ideas circulated on broadcasting and defence have been poorly thought out and poorly articulated.
With no consensus it will make little difference if we have a referendum or not. Another point, if the SNP were to build this consensus it would make opposition to such a referendum far more difficult.
Also if we are to succeed as an independent nation we need to move in this direction with a majority viewpoint, a significant majority. At present this is not happening. We need to ensure divisions are not made deeper and opinions more entrenched, otherwise after the referendum whatever the result, the task of rebuilding Scotland will be even more difficult. One way or the other at the end of this current round of nationalism we need to get on with the task of rebuilding Scotland, this will require all Scots pulling together.
It must surely be incumbent on those proposing change to persuade those undecided / not sure of the benefits. This is a long process, ridicule and abuse don't build consensus, they marginalise and divide. the current debate has far to much of the latter, Mr Salmonds dealings with the opposition and their views do nothing to build consensus they just entrench opinion and deepen divides.
Articulation of the positive benefits would do much to lessen these effects and build consensus. This would be good for Scotland's future irrespective of ant referendum result.
Regarding the Braveheart reference, thanks for the history lesson but I am well aware of the films origins. I use the term to describe phoney emotional based arguments extolling the virtues of independence.
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121. oldnat
We are in complete agreement on this. I can assure you any religous Assemblies in Wick are given scant attention and are few and far between. One of the advantages of being so far away from the central belt is that religion is bascially a non-event here, it causes little problems.
My point is that the complete seperation of church and state should be enshrined in any constitution.
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121. oldnat
Privately funded "faith schools" and the public funding of religion in schools are two totally different topics.
I am personally convinced that there are few if any "non-faith" schools in Scotland, but that is going by the stories I've heard from friends. Are there ANY schools where worship of one kind or another doesn't go on?
Of course, if Presbyterians are going to control and worship in some schools, other faiths expect a quid pro quo. Why wouldn't they and in that situation, it is reasonable.
The only solution is a complete division of church and state (and I've been yelled at for saying so, but I'll say it anyway).
Religion belongs in the home and the church if the individual chooses. In publicly-funded schools, religion is only harmful.
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122. oldnat
I have no idea why the mods (who are as gods) referred this.
It referred to my disagreement with the SNP draft constitution envisaging a unicameral structure, and my preference for a system which allowed a second chamber which represented the regions of Scotland in a similar fashion to the US, which uses the Senate to represent the States, as opposed to the House of Representatives, which represents constituencies of people. A system of checks and balances.
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119. JRMacClure
I am in agreement that a Swiss model would be a starting point for debate. Surely this would be included in the proposal before a referendum. My point is that the SNP are opposed to this, they are by instinct a party that wants to centralise power in Edinburgh. Not good for the outlying areas that will remain marginalised.
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123. northhighlander
I assumed you were aware of the history of the film. However, it is nothing more than a cheap shot and is as divisive as you accuse other people of being.
It is the kind of ridicule that unionists invariably use to try to marginalize and denigrate nationalists. It is as irrelevant as a nationalist going on about Bannockburn.
I don't agree with you about emotion-based arguments though. Most arguments for the UNION are emotion-based not fact based. People are simply emotionally attached to it. They feel safe in it -- whether they are safe or not.
One brings emotions, quite naturally, to any discussion of nation and nationality. Saying people shouldn't be emotional about the subject--on both sides--is demanding something that isn't going to happen.
On the consensus, I simply don't believe that will happen until a referendum is in front of the people. Then people will be motivated to discuss, debate and form the consensus you talk about. I agree that it's necessary. But until it is closer, people will argue that it isn't relevant and with some reason. So I simply, respectfully disagree.
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124. northhighlander
"I can assure you any religous Assemblies in Wick are given scant attention and are few and far between."
While I wouldn't disagree with you on that at all, I'm puzzled as to why you appear to prefer a constitution (it's not unwritten - just uncodified) in the UK which is based on the Church (the Established Church of England in this case) being an integral part of the governance of the state, compared to any Scottish constitution which would not suffer that encumbrance.
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125. JRMacClure
"Are there ANY schools where worship of one kind or another doesn't go on? "
No. In the 1980s the Tories introduced legislation making religious assemblies mandatory in every Scottish school.
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127. northhighlander
I have talked to quite a few members of the SNP who don't agree with the SNP view on this. I do think that more views need to be articulated within the SNP, but after all the proposed contitution is only a starting point for debate.
I assure you the US Constitution (probably you know this--I'm using it as an example) is nowhere NEAR where we started out. You know when the US declared independence, it had no idea what kind of government it would end up with. It took a lot of work, negotiation and that consensus-building to get there and even from there changes, many of them, have evolved.
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127. northhighlander
"they are by instinct a party that wants to centralise power in Edinburgh."
You have said this often. I disagree.
However, please tell me of any political party that wishes to devolve more power to the communities of Scotland than the SNP.
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Let me point out, as a further example, that the US Constitution which Americans (including me) tend to go on about was not our original constitution. These things take quite some time for a people to work out. The SNP plans for referendums are wise and I think a referendum on the details of a constitution--debated and voted on--is essentail.
But remember, the US originally operated under the Articles of Confederation from June 1776 until 1786. It took a full ten years for us to agree on a form of government!
I'm sure that Scotland's experience would be different and go, appropriately, in a different direction. But I have serious doubts that a decision on the details of government come before a DESIRE for a government of one's own.
But I'll retire (semi-gracefully) from the argument. ;-)
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129. oldnat
You will find no posts from me that argue the union is a perfect situation. It is clearly not. I would argue that in the multi-racial UK the separation of the Church and State would be a good thing. Any state would benefit from the separation of religion and politics.
I would also support the abolition of the monarchy, I see no relevance apart from supporting tourism. Although you may feel that all those who like there football in Govan would support the monarchy no matter what, not true. Being British, Scottish and in favour of abolition seems a perfectly reasonable viewpoint to me.
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Disturbing article in the Times:
SNP candidate praised radical Muslim as ‘preacher of peace’
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133. JRMacClure
"But I'll retire (semi-gracefully) from the argument"
I don't think you should (in fact I know you won't!)
Unionist Scots (and a number of Nats) are far too insular in their thinking, and can't really see beyond the limited democracy that the UK fails to enjoy. Input from other political systems is essential if we are to persuade the likes of northhighlander that it really is time to move on from the Church of England being a key part of our governance.
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131. JRMacClure
I agree that any constitution should develop with time. However the proposal at present has been SNP policy for some time, I sense little appetite for change within the SNP. their time in power has been about centralisation, they have done nothing to decentralise power. the concordat with councils just removes local revenue raising powers and makes councils 100% dependant on government. Actions speak louder than words.
Before voting on any referendum I think the constitution should be clear about what values we would want to adopt as a a nation. Representation and the separation of church and state are fundamentals that need to be included right from the start.
Otherwise it is just UK lite.
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136. oldnat
"I don't think you should (in fact I know you won't!)"
Haha! You know me too well.
Ok, I will *try* to withdraw and let the two of you discuss it. ;-)
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136. oldnat
"it really is time to move on from the Church of England being a key part of our governance."
*thumbs up* Absolutely! WAY past time.
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Another article from the Times - I had better get it in before the polls open:
Salmond refuses to predict by-election victory.
SNP sources said yesterday that their hopes had risen in the past week because of growing anger over Afghanistan and the Prime Minister’s letter to the mother of a dead soldier. Mr Salmond said the SNP’s message that only a vote for the Nationalists could end 74 years of Labour dominance was hitting home.
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132. oldnat
The answer to your point is simple and one you already know, no party is proposing such a policy.
However you say the SNP are not by nature a centralising party, what examples of SNP decentralisation can you offer?
Incidentally I agree about the insular point, Scots politics is to insular, however the constant naval gazing over independence just makes that worse.
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134. northhighlander
"Being British, Scottish and in favour of abolition seems a perfectly reasonable viewpoint to me."
Indeed. Also being European, British, and Scottish seems a perfectly reasonable viewpoint to me (regardless of views on the monarchy).
The critical question is which areas of political authority, our representative institutions are allowed (by us) to exercise - and which of them are actually necessary.
Seriously, I don't think you have looked at the implications for the UK, if you abolish the entire basis of its constitution.
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135. Roll_On_2010
The headline is disturbing (as always) but the article seems OK.
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137. northhighlander
There we can agree--You have to start with those two as fundamentals.
Representation and separation of church and state are where it should start.
I will say something that will get my lynched here--to me your parliamentary system seems quite undemocratic. Not that a parliamentary system has to be. But Scotland most certainly would NOT want "UK lite".
(We have some such problems such as with our presidential elections, but less severe and we're not talking US here. I'd appreciate no one executing me and I apologize for any offense, but that is how it seems to an outsider)
Yet there is no real push for change. I think a lot of people really see the undemocratic nature of the system. Part of the advantage of a Scottish succession would be a chance a REAL debate on what people wand and for a clean start.
Sure it might not totally be what the SNP wants, although they're less fixed on centralized government than most. But who says that the SNP will necessarily RUN an independent Scotland? It might. It might not. That would be up to the Scots right?
Oops. And there went my good intentions. I blame Oldnat. *grin*
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142. oldnat
There would be huge implications and these would require massive changes to the basis of the union. This could and should be done over a period of time. However I know and if you are honest you probably agree that the public in Scotland and the rest of the UK will not vote for the separation of Church and State, not yet.
However a relevant alternative to the separation you propose could and in my opinion should be a renewal of the union, looking at these issues and moving forward as the UK.
In time I feel this will become a more pertinent argument in England as well. It has taken over 300 years to get this far, there will be many twists and turns yet.
However work beckons in the morning so that is it from me for tonight.
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140. Roll_On_2010
Rather nice photo of David Kerr. Interesting article, less hostile than usual which tends to confuse me.
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141. northhighlander
"the constant naval gazing over independence just makes that worse.
"
It is NOT naval gazing.
Why is it that unionists can't see that constitutional matters are IMPORTANT? The Scottish constitutional status is important.
And when you have at MINIMUM 30 to 40% of your population that intensely wants a change of government, it is a matter that MUST be dealt with.
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141. northhighlander
"one you already know, no party is proposing such a policy."
Of course! Never ask a question to which you don't know the answer! :-)
Which leaves both of us in the same situation. Since no party does (or ever will) totally matches our aspirations - which comes closest?
I am no party loyalist! I've resigned from and rejoined both the Liberals (NOT the LDs! - Labour lite and essentially centralists) and the SNP in my time. I even joined Labour for a while to push for devolution.
I'm happy to look at some kind of Confederal UK (as long as we have a veto over aggressive foreign policy) - though I'd be happier with a British Isles alliance along the lines of the Visegrad Group.
My problem with you, is that you come across as constantly negative. I'm sure that you have made some positive posts, but they have been drowned out by your normal negative approach to issues.
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145. northhighlander
"a renewal of the union, looking at these issues and moving forward as the UK.
"
That isn't going to happen and I suspect you know it. There is NO such demand and the major parties of the UK as well as the powers that be that support those parties will see that it does never happen.
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145. northhighlander
Funny thing. I never hear the Quebecois accused of "navel gazing" or wanting independence because of a movie. And they have probably a smaller percentage of the population demanding it.
Yet they have have TWO referendums on it.
Ask yourself this: WHY?
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Fake Tory Election broadcast
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOPUsTV_uwk&feature=player_embedded
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I love the Beeb's profanity filter!
In the above post I couldn't originally post it because instead of "fake", I used the more appropriate term "Sp" (Scottish Parliament) concatenated with "oof" (that was a surprise). i'm not sure which was the profanity :-)
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151. oldnat
Ooooh my. The end of that made me really laugh. Good post. Thanks.
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Just thought I'd bring up again the REAL reason for the bye-election which is NOT "the elevation of the previous incumbent to the House of Lords".
Martin Quits Because of Expenses Scandal
Now--SIX MONTHS LATER--there is finally an election.
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The dole queue has lengthened perceptibly once more.
Unemployment across Scotland rose by 67,000 in the last quarter...
Nice headline, Mr. Taylor, but as I pointed out earlier, it is entirely incorrect. Unemployment across Scotland rose by 4,000 in the last quarter accord to the BBC article you link to. That is a TINY fraction of the number you quote.
While it may have been an innocent error, it is a serious one the day before an election. I have to ask why it hasn't been corrected.
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Online Ed Here
Well before the start of the by-election I remarked that The Herald would morph into something akin to The Scotsman markII.
The story below is indicative of how this paper continues to plummet, note how the Unionist parties politicisation has been carefully re-worked by the article to make it sound as though the event organiser is blaming the SNP.
Click Here
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148. oldnat
I kind of resent the assertion my posts are always negative. I do feel negative about the current situation, the level of debate amongst our politicians is entirely banal. I constantly moan about the lack of new thinking and new ideas. Most of the solutions offered thus far for Scotland in the post recession period are the typical knee jerk short term reactions used over the last 100 years by politicians of all colours.
However many of the posts I make offer positive suggestions, i do try to stimulate serious debate. But at this time I am in a minority on these pages, but not across the nation.
Anyway I agree none of the parties would match my aspirations, but I still go back to my original point, the campaign for Independence being waged by the nats just now is entirely negative, it does not offer positive reasons for change and is worsening the divide between differing views because Alex is by nature a divisive leader.
Some positive reasons for independence would be good instead of the stream of negatives.
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147. JRMacClure
By your own figures there is a sizeable majority 60% that don't want it. That is the point the argument needs to be framed in a way that reaches more of these people if it is to be accepted.
The current effort is polarising opinion and entrenching viewpoints and will not work. More effort is required to present coherent arguments for independence, not arguments about how bad the UK is but arguments reasoning why we would be better off as independent.
For example the SNP defence strategy, where we will lease all bases in Scotland to the rest of the UK, i.e. retain the benefits of UK membership while not being a part of the UK is at best laughable.
Personally I would like to see a vision, some clear thinking of what we could achieve and how in the first ten years, a coherent vision. Even that would be a start.
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Northhighlander, you got any positive reasons for staying in the Union?
Just wondered!
Personally, I can come up with only one and that is upheaval - which equates with " can't be bothered I'll do it tomorrow" and we all know
" tomorrow " never comes!
The chance to rid our country of WMDs seems to me positive.
The ability to form our own foreign policy seems to me positive.
The chance to put forward a peculiarly Scottish point of view regards Europe , seems to me positive.
Putting Scotland and the people of Scotland first seems to me positive.
Developing a means of energy to protect environmental interests seems to me positive.
Withdrawing from unwinnable and illegal wars, a huge positive.
Not getting involved in them in the first place, an even bigger positive.
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# 157 northhighlander
Isn't it strange that you decry a political party that has only been in power, as a minority government, for 2 years and yet you are willing to support a Union that has failed to be of benefit to the people of Scotland. You know that there are a number of points, that you have brought up in the past, which I would happily support but I am discouraged by your negative stance over a party which is trying to bring about a massive change in the status quo of Scotland which has blighted us for generations. Several posts back you agreed that it would take time to make any changes within the confines of the UK but you are not willing to accept, it seems to me, that this understanding could, and should, apply to the SNP as well. You also know that there will be many issues that will come to the fore upon independence which is why the SNP have been a little 'fuzzy' in their policies post independence. I believe the SNP are deliberately taking this tack as they know that they will not be able to carry all the Scots with their post independence policies and will leave that for the Scots to discuss and vote upon at the right time. I think that this is called democracy which is something the Unionist parties are frightened of. They want to rule by right of an unelected and non legal constitution; as opposed to the SNP point of view which is rule by consent.
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# 158 northhighlander
By your own figures there is a sizeable majority 60% that don't want it
Now, now. You know that your statement is not quite true. Just because 40% want to see independence does not mean that the other 60% don't want it. How many of that 60% have not made up their minds yet?
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# 158 northhighlander
For example the SNP defence strategy, where we will lease all bases in Scotland to the rest of the UK, i.e. retain the benefits of UK membership while not being a part of the UK is at best laughable.
You mean laughable in the same way in which the UK government 'leased' their miltary bases to the USA for decades?
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60. oldnat
I Think that the whole benefits system is a bit of a joke. People on benefits, if able should be forced to do some work. Maybe not full time but say 3-4 days week, therefore giving them time to find a real job as well. They could be used by cash strapped Councils to avoid incidences like this from happening. I mean if there's work to be done and the council can't afford to pay some one to do it, the Council should be able to draw from a pool of people on benefits.
It is also a great opportunity missed there could be schemes where vacant commercial properties in the area could be offered heavily discounted to entrepreneurs willing to start up businesses using people on benefits as staff. After an agreed time scale say 12-18 months, or if earlier these businesses become profitable, the employees come off benefits and the employer starts paying their wages. This would encourage businesses to move into areas with low unemployment.
I'm also sure that the majority of people who are genuinely on benefits because they can't find work would be happy to work. Whether it was in some kind of scheme as I've mentioned or voluntary/charity work. this would prevent them from having large gaps of unemployment in their CV's, which would otherwise make them even more unemployable.
Now maybe I have missed something that makes this idea completely unworkable?
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