Spending challenge looms
It is, I suppose, too much to expect our elected politicians to respond directly and instantaneously to that notably gloomy report from Audit Scotland about the state of Scottish public spending.
For one thing, the extent of the challenge is so huge. For another, there are elections looming: the by-election in Glasgow North East next week, the UK General Election next year.
Doesn't do to frighten the voters with talk of spending cuts - unless, of course, you are talking about the cuts which would inevitably follow in the wake of victory by your wicked opponent.
Sooner or later, though - probably quietly, in private - Scotland collectively will have to address the challenge posed by Audit Scotland.
In short, they say that there will be a tight squeeze on spending levels over the next five years, that efficiency savings alone will not fill the gap and that the public sector in its entirety requires to start thinking about its core priorities with regard to expenditure.
As a start, today's exchanges at Holyrood were far from propitious.
Labour's Iain Gray spotlighted what he suggested was a poor record of attendance by the first minister at the Financial Services Advisory Board, or FiSAB.
Considered as a hit against the FM, it was reasonably effective on the day. Alex Salmond responded by insisting that he and the finance secretary had regular meetings with those involved in the industry.
But why didn't Mr Gray major on the state of Scotland's finances more generally?
Because the FM would then, undoubtedly, have counter-attacked by suggesting that the Labour UK government was the progenitor of the problem, perhaps quoting Audit Scotland to the effect that the UK "has experienced the worst deterioration in its public sector finances of all OECD countries".
Labour's news release on the subject suggests that the FM might start by abandoning what it calls "vanity" projects such as the National Conversation on the constitution.
I haven't the time to calculate the precise percentage of public spending that represents - but it is tiny, fragmentary. Scarcely substantive.
Returning to the chamber, Annabel Goldie challenged the FM over Audit Scotland.
Deploying the tack he would have used against Mr Gray, Alex Salmond said that both Labour and Tory UK governments were preparing to impoverish Scotland.
It was effective rhetoric - but in no way addressed the issue of how to cope with the medium-term challenge identified in today's report.
To be fair, Mr Salmond said both he and John Swinney were focused on making the best use of resources. But again, perhaps understandably, no detail for the future.
Tavish Scott stumbled somewhat. He quoted the FM as describing the Lloyds take-over of HBOS as the "deal of the century".
Mr Salmond produced the full quotation - which made plain he was interpreting Lloyds' view of the deal, while stressing his own considerable reservations.
Questions progressed - with, for example, Bill Aitken of the Tories offering the view that, whatever else is cut, police budgets must be protected. Translate that across Scotland, across other services which MSPs may want to cherish, and you can understand the extent of the challenge.
As to this year's budget, there can be no serious offstage discussions until Glasgow NE is by.
As to the future, this is a problem for MSPs of all parties - and for the whole public sector.
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Brian,
hasn't one party at least been highlighting the cuts that are to come... and the cause of the cuts. Strange you haven't mentionned this, or are you just thinking in UK terms?
John
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ps. Hasn't one government already made cuts? *cough* GARL *cough*
John
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#110 sidthesceptic [previous thread but re FMQs]
I'm not clear where our disagreement is, Sid. My #105 is totally consistent with your "For the governing party to govern effectively their must be an effective opposition".
What I don't follow is your "why make promises you can't always keep ?"
If every statement of intent is treated as a promise, every politician breaks them every day. "Manifesto promises" are arguably somewhat different, although not in English law if I understand what happened in their courts over Lisbon correctly, but even those are predicated on a majority sufficient to implement the policies promised.
NuLab have clearly broken those promises over Lisbon, electoral reform, etc. and the LDs broke theirs by not voting for a referendum on Lisbon. Those are obviously shameful acts of arrogance, but I think you can hardly apply the same to the FM's responses to "broken promise" allegations at FMQs today.
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"Abandon vanity projects?"
OK, how about then:
Scottish Government stops the National Conservation, reintroduces bridge tolls (help environment as well etc), and keeps prescription charges at 5 pounds per visit (rather than item).
Westminster Government abandons ID cards and replaces Trident with Tomahawk cruise missile systems which are easily carried on attack submarines. This means less submarines and reduced costs. The deterrent factor remains.
Sounds fair.
Oh, and MPs expenses put into line with the rest of the public sector.
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Iain Gray accusing the First Minister of a poor record of attendance by at the Financial Services Advisory Board meetings was utterly ridiculous.
I really didn't believe what I was hearing. It was a complete waste of parliamentary time.
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#113 Wee-Scamp [previous thread but re FMQs]
"Whether or not the FM has been attending the Financial Services Advisory Group is about the most trivial topic he could have chosen."
#117 Bandages_For_Konjic [previous thread but re FMQs]
"'lacklustre's actually a pretty kind description of Auntie Annabel's performance today ...
Quick question - how on earth did Ian Gray manage to re-shuffle his front bench team and still leave Richard 'I don't know what year it is' Baker in a job?"
Good points well made.
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According to a recent report in the Scotsman, the National Conversation has cost the taxpayer £700,000. That's about the same as the expenses claims of 5 Labour MPs.
I think we can guess what Lord Foulkes et al. would prefer to spend public money on.
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#4 Neil Small, "Scottish Government stops the National Conservation, reintroduces bridge tolls (help environment as well etc), and keeps prescription charges at 5 pounds per visit (rather than item)."
Aye, pick on the small businesses who happen to be on the wrong side of the Erskine or Forth road bridges and sick people! (sheesh)
...now the ID cards and Trident? I can't disagree with scrapping them.
I would also have scrapped... Edinburgh Trams (Unionist pet project), the Calman ommission report (rubbish unionist idea) and GARL (unionist pet project).
Oops wait, the SNP have already scrapped GARL... well done to those spiffing chaps.
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#3 brownedov - Hi my point was I cant see how you can say that the FM had been excellent today when no one had even got anywhere near asking a question that had not already been asked or a question that was not a complete waist of time ,or a question that used a misquotation AGAIN?
none of it was exactly difficult now was it.
if he had stated at the begining that he would endeavour to attend every meeting of the FiSAB group Mr Gray would have been stuck for 1 question never mind 3
the lack of an opposition leads to sloppy government .
Sid
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106. bingowings87
"39"
I assure you the ONLY shame I feel is that my government is that my government continues this unconscionable war.
Opposing it and being absolutely sure that an independent Scotland would not take part in it is the LEAST shameful thing I can do.
Shame on YOU for pretending that Scotland would not do better.
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Well, here we are.
Scotland has piddly powers compared even to the states in the US.
Scotland though has been in fiscal surplus for almost all of the last 50+ years.
The UK (Westminster) is right down at the bottom of the league with the worst debt in the whole world, and is the laughing stock of Europe's press.
Yet, we must fluster around and struggle with our pocket money.
It's crazy!
If we accept this, we really are fools.
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Brian,
You're right when you say: "As to this year's budget, there can be no serious offstage discussions until Glasgow NE is by."
So why not post a thread on Glasgow NE, starting with an explanation of why this website is giving it so little coverage?
You could also make the candidate interviews from Newsnight Scotland available and not just to onshore political geeks who're prepared to hunt for them on the iPlayer.
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Guys take your eyes off the ball and look around, the whole stadium is on fire.
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I am not at all suprised that Scotland faces massive problems. Devolution without economic clout has ensured our MSP's follow and pass social agendas, without actually considering creating business friendly policies because of the lack of authority in that area, so for the last 10 years we have spent much on benefiting society as a whole without creating the ecomomy and taxation to back it up.
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Neil_Small147:
#4.
The National Conversation does not cost a huge amount of money. It does not make a difference to the budget, we're in need of billions extra or are you following the Liberal Democrat policy of getting rid of the otters too in order to get our finances back in order? ;-)
Personally I say we end the welfare state. The NHS should be for those who need help for their problems outwith their control. If we had a simple policy of ensuring members of public pay towards treatment for problems brought on upon themselves we could save quite a large amount of money.
Other social policies should halt, not be introduced altogether or reversed.
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#9 sidthesceptic
OK. I see what you mean now. The FM certainly didn't need to be "on form" to respond to anything today.
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Not all things are gloomy:
Future space role for Scotland.
The president of Virgin Galactic said yesterday that Scotland's strengths in innovation and invention plus its capabilities and expertise in advanced engineering meant it could play a vital role in developing new technology for the commercial space industry, which is expected to be a global industry of the future.
The RAF base at Lossiemouth is Virgin Galactic’s first UK choice as a spaceport for commercial space flights.
What glowing praise for Scotland and its people, pity the MSM can’t emulate it.
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#13 mcjbrown
"Guys take your eyes off the ball and look around, the whole stadium is on fire."
An inpropitious statement on what England calls bonfire night. Which particular stadium did you have in mind?
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OK, now Glasgow is at it - WINTERFEST.
What is wrong with CHRISTMAS????
15. At 4:09pm on 05 Nov 2009, Thomas_Porter:
I'd like to see prescription charges paid by those who can afford it and are not on continuous medication (a relative of mine is).
I'd rather see the money used to lower prescription charges put towards dental health. Dental disease can have devastating knock-ons to the rest of your body, particularly in the cardiac area.
8. At 3:20pm on 05 Nov 2009, BoNG0_1:
See my bit about prescription charges above.
Re the bridge tolls. I thought Scotland was aiming to reduce carbon dioxide emissions. What better way than to try and get people out of their cars and onto public transport. The charges need not be excessive, but that's my opinion.
As to the trams.....I fully agree. Princes Street is for walking on, not jumping onto a glorified train set.
Anyway, time to get the fireworks out.........
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Online Ed Here
Blog whoosh again I see, Bain's performance on Newsnight must have been too much.
I had intended to copy parts of Taylor's customary insipid comments on FMQ's but can't be bothered - the man should step aside as he imparts almost nothing of worth these days.
I noticed Tavish Scott misrepresenting Salmond on Sunday immediately he did it but as usual Campbell let him away with it. The man was apparently stupid enough to actually try the same again today - do these people believe that because BBC journalists let them off the hook that everyone will?
After the series of smear stories the bookies have hardened Labour's odds to 1/2, SNP 6/4 - still an improvement on what they were over a week ago and certainly not the foregone conclusion that Labour hoped it would be.
I'll post an analysis of Bain's interview later and contrast it with Kerr's.
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Vanity projects? Vanity projects? Labour dares to call the push for independence (which would allow us borrowing powers) a vanity project, when they instigated and forced through the biggest vanity project this side of the Millennium Dome: the Edinburgh trams. A project which has made navigating Edinburgh city centre a massive ordeal and will leave the city with a completely pointless tram "system" doing the exact same job a perfectly reliable bus service was already doing.
Honestly, what planet do these guys live on? This is exactly why independence is anything BUT a vanity project - the sooner this bunch of idiots is relieved of any power in Scotland, the better.
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Let candidates put their required Salary in their manifesto, then we can chose th4em according to value for money.
In fact let's sack them all and do it this way for all of them.
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#15 Thomas_Porter
Personally I say we end the welfare state. Are you sure you mean this. Do you really want to return to the days of not making a living sewing shirts, prostitution, alcoholism and suicide just because her man was lost at sea when she was bringing up the kids? It happened to a relative of mine not 150 years ago.
The NHS should be for those who need help for their problems outwith their control. If we had a simple policy of ensuring members of public pay towards treatment for problems brought on upon themselves we could save quite a large amount of money. I do agree with you that the purpose and implementation of our NHS should be re-assessed but it is not so easy to define simple policies. I have ancestors on both father and mother's sides who died of diabetes before 1923 and yes I am too fat but how much of my diabetes is due to just being born and how much to bad lifestyle? How much will I have to pay for my insulin?
Other social policies should halt, not be introduced altogether or reversed. Here in the Prime Ministers seat we have the 3 most deprived areas in Fife. You look at the figures and the most likely cause is the very high numbers of children. Should we be cutting child benefits?
None of these decisions are going to be easy, so we should be proposing and debating ideas right now so the politicians can have some idea of the practicalities when crunch time comes. It is good that you made your suggestions above, even if I have to query their effect.
I will make another proposal:- How about the NHS opens a "rehabilitation center" to the North of Kinlochbervie for patients whose mental capacities have been affected by drink or drugs as eveidenced by their actions in A+E. Only 2 doctors needed to certify them and they would benefit from a detox regime in the fresh air with healthy runs along the beach and all. Of course there's no electric and you can't rely on these renewables but something like a treadmill for the prisoner's, oops I mean patient's use when it's raining or dark would be able to provide enough for cooked meals. The question is:- would that increase or decrease the cost of alcolism to the Scottish economy?
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The calls by Iain Gray (and Neil Small) to abandon the national conversation in order to tackle Scotland's economic problems are predictable enough. As InfrequentAllele@7 points out the cost of £700 000 is not huge in the great scheme of things.
Having a discussion about how Scots must scrimp and save in order to survive Labour's recession is all well and good. In fact I thought online Ed had been commissioned to supply headlines for BBC Radio Scotland's News at 3pm when I heard the time honoured unionist mantra of "Labour today accused the SNP"......followed by another frothing soundbite from Giggity taken from todays FMQs.
To put the scrimping in context though, let's bear in mind that in 2008 Scotland produced 1544 thousand barrels of oil a day.
The unionists love to present the idea of Scotland as a poor country with a feckless spendthrift administration, living on Westminster largesse. This recession gives them the perfect opportunity to expand on that theme.
That's 1544 thousand barrels of oil per day for the hard of understanding. A bit rich isn't it?
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The Scot Gov is currently working up a 2% efficiency saving in this financial year. Now anything up to circa 7% savings in the next FY could be achieved by doing things slicker or by doing less of it. Once beyond that sum you start to impact people. So if there are demands for (say) 15% cuts it should have a huge people impact if the savings are going to be made.
However, there appears to be no compulsory redundancy scheme in local or national government. So in respect of making the cash savings being claimed it could be illusionary in that the department making the cut may claim to have reduced headcount, but in reality the people are still in the system somewhere and being paid.
Now BT plc had the same problem when privatized and proceeded to use voluntary redundancy as the vehicle to bring down numbers – and while that was very humane it took quite a number of years to get the figures down. There is also an argument that a voluntary scheme lets the people with “get up and go – get up and go”. So look out for major ructions in the public sector near you soon.
Post 13 (MCJB) is quite correct and even independence would not have saved us entirely from the tsunami but post 11 (ER) is quite right too in that we could have been better placed for recovery had we had our own levers to pull.
Irrespective of that, we’re in the smelly stuff and far from the recession being over it is, of course, just about to begin in earnest perhaps post 14 (TP) concerns will start to be addressed but don’t “bank” on it so to speak.
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Australians win £550m contract for new Scots hospital.
A £550 million contract to build Scotland’s largest hospital has been awarded to the firm behind the new Wembley Stadium, health officials are set to announce.
Funded entirely from the public purse, the new hospital will be part of a massive “health village” with 1100 beds, all in single-room accommodation, and 20 “state-of-the-art” operating theatres.
This must be what Willie Bain means when he states the SNP are ripping off Glasgow!
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#20 U14094468/Online Ed
"Blog whoosh again I see, Bain's performance on Newsnight must have been too much."
For the delectation of us expats, Moridura has kindly captured the Bain/Brewer interview on his Glasgow NE - Willie Bain fails to explain ....
Brewer was not as glencambly as might have been expected, and Bain did manage to avoid long pregnant pauses this time. Pity nobody seems to have thought to do the same with Kerr's appearance.
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I see the " Wonder of dear Wendy " is still prominently on the website.
King Douglas you are correct.
How anyone can describe the Scottish desire for independence as a vanity project is beyond me.
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Brian, there are times when I think you are the most glenncampbelled reporter in Scotland, considering your elevated position, and there are times when I really wonder where your heart lies. This is one of those moments. Sometimes I have ranted at you for being glencampbelled and then when I re-read your blog I found little snippets hidden in it where you are being quite devious against my perceived idea of your political stance. For instance, your:
I haven't the time to calculate the precise percentage of public spending that represents - but it is tiny, fragmentary. Scarcely substantive.
To put that in plain Dundonian, which you might find difficult being a 'pan loafy' person fae the 'High school', and I being a mink fae the schemes, I would say that this is saying to those that keep bringing up the subject of the 'National Conversation' to 'shut their puss'! There are other wee bits included in this blog that needs to be re-read by some of the posters.
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Breaking News:
Postal strike 'off' as deal is struck – reports.
Sources told the Press Association news agency that 24-hour national stoppages due to be held tomorrow and next Monday would not go ahead after a deal was agreed to end a row over jobs, pay and pensions.
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New UK YouGov Poll
http://www.channel4.com/news/article.jsp?id=3411597&time=114923
No breakdown for "others" and as usual - severe health warning on the Scots figures (only 89 sampled).
Party, UK, Sco
Con, 41.2%, 19.4%
Lab, 26.6%, 32.1%
LD, 16.6%, 16.7%
Other, 15.5%, 31.8%
Regardless of what the real distribution of support is in Scotland, the difference between Scottish and UK politics is obvious.
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" But why didn't Mr Gray major on the state of Scotland's finances more generally?
Because the FM would then, undoubtedly, have counter-attacked by suggesting that the Labour UK government was the progenitor of the problem, perhaps quoting Audit Scotland to the effect that the UK "has experienced the worst deterioration in its public sector finances of all OECD countries"." said Brian.
An insipid criticism of Mr Gray ......so much better than usual. It is still rubbish.
How about asking Gray/Murphy/Bain of Glasgow what are they going to do to ameliorate the savage cuts imposed by the british labour party on Scotland ? Or would this question fail to pass the labour party censor ?
Still nothing about Scottish labour MPs scamming millions or about how Bain of Glasgow commutes to work. Shameful - really, really shameful.
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#28
You read my mind. I just sat down to post about the powerful job that Wendy is doing(which must be top secret) wondering what stellar service she is providing the people of Scotland that it remains on this site for about two weeks
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#15 - "Personally I say we end the welfare state"
I take it, Thomas, you didn't face any threat of losing your job during this recession? Unfortunately, many Scots did and have lost their jobs. What do you say to these people? "Want to keep a roof over your head? Get a job ya lazy sod"; "Want to put food on the table to feed yer bairns? Get on yer bike then".
Norman Tebbit lives on in the guise of our Thomas, eh?
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"Labour's Iain Gray spotlighted what he suggested was a poor record of attendance by the first minister at the Financial Services Advisory Board, or FiSAB."
Although this could be concieved as a good political 'hit' on the first minister, it really doesn't tell us anything.
Let me put it this way: has the First Ministers absence from these meetings undermined his ability to act in this policy field? Has it undermined his grasp of the financial situation at all?
I would contend that it has not. This is not Brian an effective use of Grays' questions- it doesnt tell us anything at all.
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Willie Bain's Campaign Diary
http://www.labourlist.org/willie-bain-glasgow-north-east-by-election-diary
"I'm not a politician, I'm a local man".
politician = "a person actively engaged in politics"
Now I can see the point of a politician lying to the punters in order to get votes, but making such a statement on Labour's blog simply makes him look pathetic.
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BBC Reporting Scotland was out and about in Glasgow North East. I had to smile when they showed Labour peer 'Lord' Andrew Adonis with wee Willie Bain standing mute and as stiff as a board alongside him. Wee Willie was only up to his elbow and looked like his wee laddie. His Lordship made up for it by being very animated as he told the reporter "there will be no cuts....the reporter said "No cuts?". "No cuts" he reiterated...
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15. Thomas Porter
"Personally I say we end the welfare state. The NHS should be for those who need help for their problems outwith their control. If we had a simple policy of ensuring members of public pay towards treatment for problems brought on upon themselves we could save quite a large amount of money.
Other social policies should halt, not be introduced altogether or reversed."
Abolishing the current NHS system, where medicine is free at the point of need is not something I would support. Medicine, healthcare is a fundamental human right, not something to be limited by income. Sorry Thomas I cannot agree.
But can I ask what you mean by halting other social policies? That sounds interesting.
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Can we not ask BoE just to print more money to make up the shortfall since nuLab are doing it!
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Labour Candidate William Bain meets one of his London Labour Masters
"Why does he have to reply on English students from Cornwall?
The answer is simple, he isn’t liked and he isn’t known in Glasgow North East, even his neighbours in Carron estate don’t know him!"
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The Steamie: Welcome to the virtual by-election
"Over the coming week candidates in the Glasgow North-East by-election, in adddition to fighting the contest on the doorsteps and on the hustings, will be taking the fight online."
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15. Thomas Porter
End the welfare state? Enough of this so called libertarian nonsense. Libertarianism is predicated on property rights not human rights, it is anarchism for selfish and greedy people and is a recipe for warlordism and corporatism.
There's an example of a state where the principles of libertarianism are put into practice. It's called Somalia.
Dunno about you, but I hope for higher standards in an independent Scotland.
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Good PPB from the SNP on alcohol pricing. Evidence based, hard-hitting. Presented as an effective public interest investigative item.
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43. oldnat
It was the Political slot on Channel 4.
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WARDOG
Better with the volume up.
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Why don't BBC Scotland ask politicians questions that are not prescripted. It adds interest for the viewers and puts the wind up the politicians, giving them the opportunity to show their real metal. I only recall that happening once to Murphy and he looked as though he had just received 240 volts direct.
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# 35 deanthetory
This is not Brian an effective use of Grays' questions- it doesnt tell us anything at all.
I suspect that this is what Brian is telling us.
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Since the next UK GE will affect Scotland mainly on the economy and defence/foreign policy, it's worth looking at whether Scots should even think about voting for the Official, as opposed to Provo, Tories.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/nov/05/cameron-europe-lisbon-referendum-tories
"ust to show that he can also blunder outside the European Union, there was Cameron's worst moment of all. In the summer of last year he flew to Georgia, where he not only gave his fervent backing to the Tbilisi government in its conflict with Russia but said that Georgia should be admitted to Nato forthwith – which absurd suggestion, if taken seriously, might have precipitated a full-scale international war."
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# 45 cynicalHighlander
Excellent.
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TheTelegraph is running a headline tonight "SNP accused of £1million St Andrew's Day referendum propaganda campaign" - SNP ministers have been accused of embarking on a £1million propaganda campaign to coincide with the unveiling of their proposals for an independence referendum.....By Simon Johnson, Scottish Political Editor
I'm involved in a business that promotes Scottish music and culture and Mike Russell's announcement today of the largest ever programme of Scottish-themed events celebrating St Andrew’s Day is great. The reason it's bigger than usual is because it marks the end of the 'Homecoming' celebrations. A lot of these events would be happening anyway and come in under the St Andrew's Celebrations 'umbrella'' giving publicity small promoters couldn't afford to buy. Marking St Andrew's Day in this way encourages visitors to come to Scotland, helps business, highlights our indigenous culture.
Iain Gray "...We are in a recession and the Scottish government should be working flat out on economic recovery not on what is basically a party political stunt for the SNP.” (He conveniently forgets Jack McConnell's "St Andrew's Celebrations" )
Mike Rumbles: “The Scottish government is throwing taxpayers’ money at trying to whip up nationalist fervour at a time when pressure on the public purse has never been greater.”
Murdo Fraser:.." concerned the SNP is “politicising” St Andrew’s Day on the day they are introducing the white paper. "
It's so depressing to see the press and opposition parties take this tack. I feel honestly, that they hate the SNP Government so much they would rather do down Scotland than offer even tacit support for something which might help Scottish businesses and promote a good image of the country. Geez...
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50. raisethegame
"Mike Rumbles: “The Scottish government is throwing taxpayers’ money at trying to whip up nationalist fervour at a time when pressure on the public purse has never been greater.” "
Telegraph link
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/scotland/6509410/SNP-accused-of-1million-St-Andrews-Day-referendum-propaganda-campaign.html
“The British government is throwing taxpayers’ money at trying to whip up nationalist fervour" - Tessa Jowell Feb 2009 - "This meant that for the London cycle the elite sport system will receive £304 million, the highest level of public funding ever made available over a four year Olympic/ Paralympic cycle. UK Sport confirmed that this funding package enabled it to set a target to attain a place in the top four in the Olympic Games, and second place in the Paralympic Games in 2012 – aiming to win more medals in more sports than in Beijing."
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See this is what happens when folk do not read the actual documents.
The 2007 COSLA / SNP concordat states that the fiscal arrangements agreed reflected the need for tighter budgeting and spending across government. While Westminster is cutting the Scottish Pocket Money in real terms the SNP are actually committed to increasing the money in the councils' pot year on year.
Thanks to fatty Foulkes we know that the SNP have cut the cost of Holyrood government by over £500 million and the cost of running NHS Scotland by £320 million. Against this we have the two councils most effected by PFI costs squealing like stuck pigs and the one which gets £1.1 billion of Scottish taxpayers money in the current fiscal year, is claiming it is being ripped off.
Brian the Scottish Councils are already responding. Just today Dumfries and Galloway sent me a nice glossy brochure to tell me, amongst other things, that to balance the education budget (to pay for PFI schools of which one PFI primary school near me is not fit for purpose, even before it opens) they would not be replacing 70 teachers.
The reality of the concordat is councillors are now directly responsible and accountable for what they spend as, opposed to 59 ring fenced budget under Labour, they only now have 17, all of which were jointly agreed between CoSLA and the SNP. That is the point of SOA's they let the councils prioritise local need with the over arching 15 national priorities.
That's the problem - the Unionist are already behind the times asking questions that have already been resolved by the concordat..... duh!
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52. slaintemha
"The reality of the concordat is councillors are now directly responsible and accountable for what they spend as, opposed to 59 ring fenced budget under Labour, they only now have 17, all of which were jointly agreed between CoSLA and the SNP."
northhighlander will still argue that there is no difference between Labour and SNP, though! :-)
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Online Ed Here
Newsnight by-election interview with David Kerr Nov 3rd
A 1 minute and 25 second intro, containing a reference to the smear about Kerr’s place of birth together with a picture of a Daily Record headline on the same smear.
There followed a seven minute interview containing six questions in total.
There were 16 separate interruptions from Glenn Campbell.
Interview questions were as follows:
1. Define ‘Give Labour a fright’ – a reference to Alex Salmond’s claim that Labour were in for a fright.
Kerr is interrupted once in giving his answer.
2. This question is about the place of birth smear
Kerr is interrupted no less than 5 times in 1 min 40 secs as he answers, the first interruption comes 9 seconds after he begins his answer. The remaining interruptions occur at the following intervals: 10 secs, 16 secs, 15secs and 21 secs.
Flow of answer is made very difficult as is his attempts at attacking Labour over the smear.
3. Expenses.
Kerr is interrupted only once.
4. Troops in Afghanistan.
Kerr is interrupted no fewer than seven times in giving his answer.
First interruption is TWO seconds in, followed by: 8,6,2,16,8 13
5. Postal dispute
Only two interruptions, one after 15 secs then another 10 secs.
6. Religion
No interruptions
Campbell gave Kerr a hard time, as he should. Kerr’s performance has marked him out as a star of the future – no doubt.
Newsnight by-election with Willie Bain Nov 5th
A 1 minute intro containing a quick reference to Bain working as a teacher of law in London.
There followed a 4m 45s interview containing 7 questions in total.
There were also 6 interruptions, all coming during the last question.
Interview questions were as follows:
1. Martin Standing down as speaker
Bain answers uninterrupted.
2. Did Martin do anything wrong
Bain answers uninterrupted.
3. Postal strike
Bain answers uninterrupted
4. Postal privatisation – are you against
Bain answers in 1 second – Yes
5. Why are you against
Bain answers uninterrupted
6. Any other disagreements with your party
Bain answers uninterrupted
7. People on benefits/incapacity in Springburn
Bain interrupted six times – interruptions though don’t alter flow of answers as they are in the form of supplementary questions.
Bain basically lists ‘achievements’ of Labour over the last decade.
Unlike Kerr, Bain fields no questions on his London residency nor on the accusation that he registered to vote in London. He also fields no questions on the central themes of his campaign.
In summary:
Kerr was interrogated by Campbell for 7 minutes and faced 16 interruptions. He also faced questions on two Labour instigated smears.
Bain was interviewed for 4m 45s,[yes interviewed], by a languid Gordon Brewer and was uninterrupted for six of his seven questions, allowing him to speak freely.
The two interviews were chalk and cheese.
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Reporting Scotland out and about in NE Glasgow - and what do they talk about - devolved issues. I thought this was a westmonster by-election. What have the local Labour MSPs done about devolved issues ?
Nothing. Oink Oink.
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Online Ed Here
It's so depressing to see the press and opposition parties take this tack. I feel honestly, that they hate the SNP Government so much they would rather do down Scotland than offer even tacit support for something which might help Scottish businesses and promote a good image of the country.
You have these people in a nutshell, without realising it they are behaving in an anti Scotland manner.
Like a posessive partner, they would rather harm what was once theirs than see it happier in another relationship.
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Online Ed Here
Postal vote figures confirmed for this by-election as are total of the voters register including recent increases - interesting numbers.
I'll post an article on the Newsnet Scotland blogspot in due course together with comparisons with last year and of course Glenrothes.
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54. Online
Could not agree more with this post. It was all there for everyone to see. Now that comparison must be rated as THE most biased and unimpartial two pieces of reporting by the BBC.
Thank the wee man that there is someone out there like you who can highlight the inadequancies of the publicly funded BBC so eloquently and also so frequently.
The BBC has lost the plot, BBC news anyway, I quite like the comedies, The thick of it, the office and now and the tongue in cheek Newsnight scotland.
If you are staging a one man war against the BBC then you have my full backing with all the arguments and evidence you continually put up for all to see.
Keep it up big fella.
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57. U14094468
"I'll post an article on the Newsnet Scotland blogspot in due course"
Ed! You are a tease!
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this is getting frustrating now. It's like living in china trying to get a fair hearing in the press. Long live the internet, long live the blog.
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Election debate-STV-10.35pm-in 15mins
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cheers spinspamspun
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MORIDURA
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Has the prospective MP david kerr been asked any questions that aren't regarding devolved issues? (on the itv show the now)
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Good structure for the STV political debate. The Beeb would do well to follow it.
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24. At 5:31pm on 05 Nov 2009, GrassyKnollington wrote:
The calls by Iain Gray (and Neil Small) to abandon the national conversation in order to tackle Scotland's economic problems are predictable enough. As InfrequentAllele@7 points out the cost of £700 000 is not huge in the great scheme of things.
700K is still a substantial amount that could have gone to better schemes. How many posts does it have? What has it achieved? Any cost saving helps. That money could have gone to disadvantaged groups, child poverty, charity. Had the economy been fine I would have agreed it could stay. But the economy is in tatters.
My argument about the NC has nothing to do with the independence argument or not. It is a waste of money.
Perhaps if you read my comment I pointed out SFT should remain. I've criticised it in the past but to be fair it has yet to be given a chance and there is no way it could cost as much as PFI.
Look at CURRENT economics. If Scotland votes for independence next year it will probably take 2 or 3 years to get there. I don't know and I doubt many here could give an accurate estimate. That means another 4-5 years before the oil money finally kicks in. So any savings just now are worthwhile. Scotland has PFI obligations whether we like it or not (not would be the majority view).
I'd rather see the money given to medical research rather than a talking shop that has few contributors.
Go to Google and type in "National Conversation" and see what the first entry is. It ain't Scotland's.
As to numbers, a few latest figures:
A Scottish Oil Fund - started 14 Aug 08 - 126 posts
Europe and Foreign Affairs - 8 Sep 09 - 45 posts
Referendum Proposal - 126 posts
Finance Secretary - 15 posts - closed
Scottish Goverment One Year On - 39 posts - closed
Scotlands Institutions - 245 posts - closed
Council of the Isles - 45 posts - closed
Scotland in the World - 174 posts - closed
Environment - 81 posts - closed
Health and Wellbeing - 69 posts - closed
Education - 121 posts - closed
Enterprise/Energy - 181 posts - closed
Finance/Growth - 147 posts - closed
Continuing the Conversation - 81 posts - closed
Parliamentary Business - 143 posts - closed
Alex Salmond - 1,816 posts - closed
Your voice heard has 754 posts. There is simply not the volume of traffic on there to justify its existence. Governments have a duty to keep the public informed and to encourage participation, but not when the underlying purpose is politically driven.
What would be your reaction if Labour started a "Union Conversation" on the No10 website using public money? (And no comments about the BBC!!)
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Online Ed Here
65. At 11:05pm on 05 Nov 2009, oldnat wrote:
Good structure for the STV political debate. The Beeb would do well to follow it.
I agree, very good debate thus far, Kerr getting the better of Bain just, although not a good idea to throw a £2 coin to Bain and ask him to catch it.
We all know the Daily Record will headline this as 'SNP Kerr aims coin at Bain'.
Perhaps though it was deliberate and he knows that the Record will produce another anti Kerr headline - overkill the aim?
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48. At 9:04pm on 05 Nov 2009, oldnat:
Cameron is rapidly becoming the reason why we might just end up with a hung parliament.
Put Boris in charge!
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66. Neil_Small147
"What would be your reaction if Labour started a "Union Conversation" on the No10 website using public money?"
A couple of points.
The main costs of the "National Conversation" are not the website (which I would scrap), but the costs of the Scottish Cabinet meeting the public (a fairly good idea, and one copied [rather badly] by the UK Cabinet.)
The No 10 website (and Murphy's etc) are Unionist blogs at public expense.
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It has been fairly obvious for some time that the funding shortfall for the Scottish Government would be between £2.7 and £4.1 billion over the next four years. By suggesting that it will be £3 billion, they are effectively saying a 10 per cent cut to the budget which is relatively easy for people to understand, especially the press. Basically we are talking a 2.5 per cent cut year on year for the next four years or £750 million per year.
Cuts of this magnitude will not be funded by salami slicing, but will involve deep cuts to front line services and non-essential capital projects. Andy Kerr has known this for some time (at least nine months) so his criticism rings a little hollow. It should also be noted that he has been less than helpful at to where the axe will fall.
My own view is that 80 to 90 per cent of the free personal care for the elderly has about one more year of life.
Free public travel for pensioners will also go.
Free prescriptions for 80 per cent of current recipients will also go.
Tattoo-removal, non-essential cosmetic surgery, free repeat diabetic prescriptions, gastric band surgery, and a host of other operations of a non-essential nature will cease.
Number of Councils will be reduced from 32 to under 10. School closures will accelerate, with large reductions in school staff and care staff in Councils.
Number of police forces will reduce from nine to four. There will be a national fire service with redundancies.
Independent consultancies of Council services will cease, 50 per cent reduction in the number of quangos. Gaelic services of all descriptions will cease.
And this is just the start.
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68. Neil_Small147
"Put Boris in charge!"
I never saw you as a Labour supporter1 :-)
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66. Neil_Small147
As oldnat has pointed out Secretary of State's Blog a complete waste of taxpayers money for selfish means by a person of similar ilk.
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ahhhhhhhhhh i cant watch baxendale
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#70 Magi
Why stop at repeat diabetic presciptions? Hypertension, contraceptive, methadone, even repeat visits to A+E must also be possibilities, surely?
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73. jediirnbru
"i cant watch baxendale"
It's really sad. The Tory lass has come across best so far, I reckon. she might be an asset in the Scottish Parliament - where we do need a better opposition.
Bain is suitable only for Westminster - where he would match the general standard of Labour MPs there.
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74. handclapping
As I said this is just the start and these are all good ideas you've come up with. One more, I forgot, legal aid 50 per cent cut saving £640 million per year.
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75. oldnat
Remembering your posting on a previous thread, if turnout drops below 20 per cent, that's just 10,000 voters split between 14 candidates, the winner could take the seat with just 1500 votes. Everything depends of which candidate can get out their vote. As far as I'm concerned the whole thing could be little more than a lottery.
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We are continually being bombarded by an advert from the BBC Trust asking for input on how the BBC is performing. Does anyone know if there has been any concerted effort to ask them directly if they are aware of the political bias at BBC Scotland and if so how have they responded?
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I see Willie Bain has posted his blog at the Steamie! I am sure he would like some enquiring questions put in the nicest way poss.
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77. MagisterIlluminatus
"the whole thing could be little more than a lottery."
I'm very much of the view that that will be the case - though I await with interest Online Ed's details of the electoral roll and postal voting figures!
I assume a Labour (probably) or SNP win - and whoever wins will milk that victory. The "anti-party" bit of me would welcome the victory of the blind guy just for the hell of it!
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70. MagisterIlluminatus
"And this is just the start."
Having been a consultant to the public sector, I'm in favour of cutting out the obvious needless expenditure in employing people like me to analyse data to meet the needs of ring fenced budgets (though I personally lost out).
You have suggested a particular list of cuts from the domestic budget that any party in power will need to look at. I'm sure there are others.
The tragedy for Scotland is that the Scottish Parliament is going to have to make cuts only in those areas which are devolved, while the UK Government is free to continue to spend money on the reserved issues like defence, which the Scottish Parliament would cut in preference, and maintain public services instead.
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"Whisky industry to be protected by new laws"
One obvious question. Why did this take so long to do? It's a reserved matter, and the SoS Dept isn't exactly overburdened with work!
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/politics/whisky-industry-to-be-protected-by-new-laws-1.930642?localLinksEnabled=false
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74. Oldnat
Agreed. I think with a bit of spit and polish Kerr could cut it one day up here. Let him cut his teeth at the pretendy parliament down south before bringing him back up after independence once he's ready.
Bain though! oh dear oh dear. What a condecending vile little man with the worst tone i've ever heard.
I did like kerrs piece on not bringing the fight down to labours level mind you. Show good character
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72. At 11:22pm on 05 Nov 2009, cynicalHighlander wrote:
66. Neil_Small147
As oldnat has pointed out Secretary of State's Blog a complete waste of taxpayers money for selfish means by a person of similar ilk.
!!!!!! ZERO comments. At least the NC gets a response.
70. At 11:19pm on 05 Nov 2009, MagisterIlluminatus:
Aberdeen City Council are ahead of the game. I have first hand experience of the cuts via a relative. They only provide statutory care if you ASK! They charge for household waste uplifts.
South Lanarkshire Council are cutting into free fruit/water for Primary 1-3 pupils.
As you said, the cuts will come after the GE and will be horrific. My list of what I think will happen: (apologies to MI for duplicates)
Prescriptions stuck at 4 or 5 pounds.
Free eye tests abolished for most.
Free school transport reduced (SLC have done this from 3 to 4 miles)
I think the police will be reduced to 3 forces - West, East and North.
All non-essential cosmetic surgery stopped.
Tuition fees brought in for non-critical courses - ie those which are not deemed to have shortages in industry.
More school closures.
Support for youth organisations reduced or stopped.
Free community transport schemes scrapped or reduced.
Bottom line is there will have to be cuts somewhere. And the sad thing is that it will turn into a slagging match despite the fact that no matter who is in power will have to do this anyway!
By the way, VAT returns to 17.5 percent on 1 Jan if I'm right.
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81. oldnat
A strategic defence review is long overdue and given bungler Broon didn't have the gumption to attend a single defence briefing for over 12 years, there is certainly plenty of scope for cuts.
One example that springs to mind is why we need five tank regiments with hundreds of Challenger main battle tanks whose only function is to fight and kill other tanks when our main enemies for the past few years don't have a tank to call their own.
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A lot of utter rubbish being talked about the National Conversation which has cost the public purse about as much as two years of George Fanny Foulkes.
as has been pointed out the majority of the cost has been accrued in Scottish Ministers going about the country meeting people and interst groups.
Obviously some posters here think we should not bother with practical exercises in democracy or we should only have them if they cost nothing.
£700,000 is a very moderate cost for this exercise. Why don't the people who get all worked up about these irrelevances have a look after some real nonsense paid for by the public purse.
Lets have look at the House of Lords.
Most people are unaware that there are well over 700 "lords" (a lot more than there are MPs) who get abour £350 per day just to sign in. With other expenses taken into account the average Lord in the Lords is costing the public purse well over £400 per day. If they all turnup that's about £300,000 a day - but they only need 3 (yes, three)to turn up on most business to constitute a quorum.
So two days of the House of Lords can cost as much as our National Conversation.
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Journalists should really be a protected species.
"Fears BNP could come third in Glasgow North East"
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/scotland/article6905279.ece
Who knows in this kind of election just before a GE?
"If the turn-out in Glasgow North East is around the predicted 40 per cent" - so who is predicting that figure?
"Professor John Curtice, Britain’s most respected polling analyst" - just what evidence is there for that?
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Another thought, why do we need heavy artillery. It takes forever to get it into theatre. It's very good at plastering an area with shells, just not so hot at hitting an actual target. It uses lots and lots of soldiers who could be gainfully employed doing something else. It costs a fortune and 20 per cent of its shells don't go off.
Guided missiles can hit a painted target with unerring accuracy, they go off every time. It takes two people to aim and fire one and given that you fire one, instead of firing whole heap of shells its a lot cheaper and your own soldiers don't get blown up by unexploded ones.
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'Fears BNP could come third'. Yes, but a miss is as good as a mile.
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85. MagisterIlluminatus
"A strategic defence review is long overdue"
If I remember rightly, you are a Tory. You might be a dissident and oppose excessive military spending - in which case, good on you - but can you remind us of your party policy on military spending?
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88. MagisterIlluminatus
Agreed. It's unlikely that we'll ever fight a war across the North European Plain!
Doesn't seem much point in most military spending based on aggressive war then.
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86. At 00:24am on 06 Nov 2009, sneckedagain:
I am well aware of the cost of the House of Lords, and I don't agree with them receiving a penny either, maninly since nearly if not all are on substantial income anyway. And the House should be there to protect democracy more than anything.
But you are using the same argument as others by comparing costs. The bottom line is the NC has not really achieved anything, visiting the country or not. The only time any politicians of any party show any interest is around election time or when you write to them. I cannot recall Labour, SNP or any other party having an open forum where I live.
Salmond held his meetings around the country primarily to garner support for the SNP, hence the reason Brown copied him. I'd rather ministers stayed at their respective offices and concentrated on running the country, leaving the public contact to their constituency MPs/MSPs.
But what has the NC actually achieved? If it was effective the website would be buzzing. It is not. This blog is far more productive even if certain topics seem to be ignored by the owner.
I've also noticed with quite a few of your posts that you consider anyone who does not support either the SNP or independence to be of questionnable intelligence.
ie
"I am confident that when the cards are on the table there will be enough Scots with enough intellect,enough courage and enough ambition to outnumber the confused and timid cringers."
People are entitled to their views. They don't need insulting because you do not agree with them.
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87. At 00:30am on 06 Nov 2009, oldnat:
Better odds at the bookies.......
Prediction time:
1st Labour with a majority of 300ish
2nd SNP
3rd Smeato
BNP around 11th place.
If Labour lose, I reckon Brown will be challenged.
I'm not one for conspiracy theories, however......
Re the increase in registered postal voters, funny how the mail strike has by sheer coincidence been cancelled until after Christmas.......
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93. Neil_Small147
"3rd Smeato"
That wouldn't surprise me.
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11. eye_write
As an American, I assure you that you are correct. Compared to an American State, the government of the nation of Scotland has its hands tied--to the extent that I have wondered if the INTENT of devolution was to frame it so that would fail. It is to be admired that it has succeeded as well as it has, but a government lacking the power to borrow and lacking the power to control its own income is ridiculous. It is absolutely in need of a solution--one chosen by the people of Scotland, NOT one imposed from without by Westminster.
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66. Neil_Small147
Get off it Neil. Keeping a website online costs next to nothing. Once it's designed leaving it up adds nothing to your expenses. You're going on about nothing. Taking down the website would cost more than leaving it up!
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I've read a lot of near hysteria from a fair number of anti-EU Tories (or Euroskeptics as some call them). I'm trying to figure out if this is one of those things that lasts a couple of days and goes away or if the Tories have been done some damange. I hardly think it would keep them from tromping Labour since I think it would be impossible for them to hurt themselves that badly. But I've seen quite a few comments that the UKIP will gain substantially from it. A shadow minister quitting seemed to ramp it up to a higher level. But others say it'll quickly blow over.
Any thoughts?
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97. At 04:19am on 06 Nov 2009, JRMacClure
As a pro-EU tory I can tell you that I am delighted at Camerons abandonment of holding a referendum on Lisbon!
Divided? Sure we are, but this is a toxic issue for my party. I strongly dislike Hannan type sceptics [or europhobes more accurately] and they equally strongly dislike the Clarkites like me.
Its an unbridgable gap, Cameron should change the subject quickly.
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98. deanthetory
Divided is one thing. Losing votes is another.
I'm not saying you will but I've seen a lot of other people say it and a fair lot saying they would either vote UKIP or stay home. It may blow over when Mr. Cameron "changes the subject".
I don't know.
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DeanTheTory:
#38.
"Abolishing the current NHS system, where medicine is free at the point of need is not something I would support. Medicine, healthcare is a fundamental human right, not something to be limited by income. Sorry Thomas I cannot agree."
And you call yourself a Conservative? ;-) I am not denying individuals their right to healthcare and medicine. I am, however promoting individuals taking responsibilities for their own actions.
I don't know what human rights allows you to be as careless as possible and neglect your own responsibilites and forces your own problems onto someone else.
I should rephrase my original statement though, I disagree with the welfare state but I would not stop the entire system. I really believe that individuals should be held to account through the choices they make in life. If there are problems outwith your control then you should receive help but if you bring problems onto yourself then it's not my problem.
There must be risk in the world and you should realise that you do have responsibilities and the state does not have to provide you have a safety net.
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Is it that easy to tell when someone has brought problems on themselves?
Type 2 diabetes is not always caused by over-weight and for what degree of over-weight should people be punished for by not having their health care needs met? Do we even KNOW what degree causes it?
If someone smoked earlier but gave it up and then gets lung cancer, do you deny them health care?
And if someone is a smoker are you REALLY going to stand there and watch them dying in agony, denying them care? Really? I've watched someone die of that. Maybe you could do that. I honestly couldn't.
By the way, if you do deny someone health care for smoking, you should also reduce the taxes on those cigarettes, shouldn't you?
Let's take this argument to its logical conclusion. There is a substantial health risk to giving birth to a child, you know. So should women who decide to choose to have children be denies care? But then there is also a health risk to many forms of birth control. Hmmmm...
You make it sound very easy. I'm not sure that it's at all easy.
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JRMacClure:
#101.
"Is it that easy to tell when someone has brought problems on themselves?"
It depends on the situation.
"If someone smoked earlier but gave it up and then gets lung cancer, do you deny them health care?"
No. It certainly would not be free, though.
"And if someone is a smoker are you REALLY going to stand there and watch them dying in agony, denying them care? Really? I've watched someone die of that. Maybe you could do that. I honestly couldn't."
I will repeat my stance that I would not deny others care but I will expect the individual to cover the cost for their own mistakes. I would not watch and individual die, but I will also expect the person to return home if they refuse to cover their own costs.
If I was a leader I would be expected to make tough decisions. How can I explain thousands of pounds being spent on a person for commiting acts that are proven to cause them more harm then good? I am not prepared to pay for your stupidity in life, madam.
"By the way, if you do deny someone health care for smoking, you should also reduce the taxes on those cigarettes, shouldn't you?"
Nope. I can accept earning a profit and using it on other projects while at the same time not allowing the people healthcare.
"Let's take this argument to its logical conclusion. There is a substantial health risk to giving birth to a child, you know. So should women who decide to choose to have children be denies care? But then there is also a health risk to many forms of birth control. Hmmmm..."
However creating children is a must and the risks can not be avoided, so should I criminalise those for problems outwith their control? There's a difference between problems outwith a persons control and problems created by the person themselves.
"You make it sound very easy. I'm not sure that it's at all easy."
It's easier because I think differently.
If I were speeding and crashed my insurance company would cover the damages and I would see an increase cost of my insurance the next time I come to pay, so why should innocent individuals who live a clean and safe life be asked to pay for those who don't?
If I drink, smoke, speed or do anything that may be dangerous it's my choice.
Where's the responsibilities of the individual thesedays?
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102. Thomas_Porter
"No. It certainly would not be free, though."
I would not watch and individual die, but I will also expect the person to return home if they refuse to cover their own costs.
And if they don't have the money, then you would let them die if they happen to be poor.
So being poor is once again the ULTIMATE crime. You would have the poor "return home if they refuse to cover their own costs" or at least have the good taste to go die in an alley so you wouldn't have to look at the suffering your decision would cause.
However creating children is a must and the risks can not be avoided
Creating children is not a must. I can practice abstinence as an absolute preventive. Having a child absolutely IS a choice. By your formula, if I don't have the money to hand over to a doctor, I should go drop the whelp in the field.
I am not prepared to pay for your stupidity in life, madam.
Perhaps others are not prepared to pay for your heartlessness in life, sir.
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Have you ever in your life smoked a cigarette or taken a drink of alcohol? Are you a single pound over weight? Do you keep your cholesterol to the official government-approved level? Do you make sure that there isn't anything in your yard you might accidentally trip over? Because before we give you ANY health care we're gong to send a policeman over to examine your entire life and if we find you haven't met our government-approved lifestyle, OUT YOU GO!
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JRMacClure:
#103.
"And if they don't have the money, then you would let them die if they happen to be poor."
No. I would expect it to be paid overtime.
"So being poor is once again the ULTIMATE crime. You would have the poor "return home if they refuse to cover their own costs" or at least have the good taste to go die in an alley so you wouldn't have to look at the suffering your decision would cause."
No. I mentioned above that it should be recognised that some may not afford treatment and the state should provide an alternative.
Besides... the state would have to move and bury the body in the alley at the end of the day, so I do not see the point your attempting to make there?
Death is apart of life. It's natural and I see no shame or problem for allowing something so natural to occur. If you do not want to die then I suggest you take measures to reduce your risk.
"Creating children is not a must. I can practice abstinence as an absolute preventive. Having a child absolutely IS a choice. By your formula, if I don't have the money to hand over to a doctor, I should go drop the whelp in the field."
Children is a must, or we'd not have future taxpayers to fund the older generation. It's a basic situation.
"Perhaps others are not prepared to pay for your heartlessness in life, sir."
Survival of the fittest, miss.
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JRMacClure:
#104.
"Have you ever in your life smoked a cigarette or taken a drink of alcohol? Are you a single pound over weight? Do you keep your cholesterol to the official government-approved level? Do you make sure that there isn't anything in your yard you might accidentally trip over? Because before we give you ANY health care we're gong to send a policeman over to examine your entire life and if we find you haven't met our government-approved lifestyle, OUT YOU GO!"
This is slightly ridiculous. Your quite unwilling to be held responsible for your own actions, I wonder why.
If I commited a murder I would be arrested and face a trial.
Why should others act knowing their doing harm and not be held responsible?
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JR , Thomas is 17 years old.
I almost remember what that is like!
Black and white world - no greys , no nuances.
How is the US going to deal with Fort Hood?
An unbelieveable act of carnage and a destruction of trust.
Not that the West has held itself back from even greater acts of carnage, thus encouraging reprisal.
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102. Thomas_Porter
There are many factors that affect someones health outcomes, some genetic, some to do with where you were born. These have an effect for the rest of your life irrespective of whatever life choices you make.
Those born in poverty have a poor set of choices, no matter how hard they try they will be more likely to need the NHS than those born in affluent families.
To penalise someone for where they were born is just simply wrong. We as a nation need the NHS, it is one of our success stories and we need to stick with it through the tough times.
We can make it better, no doubt. I agree that the prescription charges changes should be dropped, these essentially benefit those that can already pay. I also would scrap the partial free parking at hospitals, would seriously look at the number of administrators and managers, the whole sysstem can be made more efficient.
But fundamentally it is a good system that defines our values as a society, free treatment at the point of need, no other decisions, it doesn't matter who you are , what you are you will be treated.
I watched a documentary on the US system, it is truly appalling if you are poor or fall outside the insurance system for any reason.
If we are to create a society in Scotland of equal opportunities then the NHS is one of the fundamental institutions that underpin this. I have no desire to go back to the days when my great Grandfather died of appendicitis due to not being able to afford the operation. The result of this was the break up of the family and the end of my Grandfathers education, at the age of 12. From that day on he had to work to eat.
The good old days eh! It is always the poorest and most vulnerable that suffer when you pay for healthcare. Choices are fine, if you can afford them. If you are a binman on £12-15k a year, with a family how can you afford £25k for a heart operation, to say nothing of the on costs of care and medication?
Personal responsibility is an issue, but it should be that everyone should do what they can to contribute to society. So those who can work should work. We have too many not working that could, so when the economy picks up these should be helped into work and paying their way.
However your assertion that people take responsibility for their own healthcare is grossly unfair and would devlop a Scotland that I don't want to see. Thankfully the overwhelming majority of Scots would agree with me.
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107. Diabloandco
Being 17 is not an excuse for not thinking through the basic fundamentals of what makes a decent society.
I agree that when you are young, and I can clearly remember this time, you can be confused. Hoever hopefully he will read and learn and understand. If you are subject to poverty at some point in your life, particularly when you are young you tend to appreciate what we have got. The problem we have now is so many people have never known poverty, some like to think it doesn't exist.
Everyone in our nation should get an equality of opportunity in life, peole like Thomas would restrict opportunities to those with wealth, the end result of this is wasted lives and wasted talent. We have had those years in Scotland, lets not go back there.
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morning , interesting that despite the numerous number of posts regarding ,amongst other things, removing the cost of prescriptions to all, not one of you has stopped to think that one of the reasons for removing the charges is that the income received from those paying for there script is nowhere near the cost of running the system for collecting of the charges.
It might be a bit of a shock to the Tory's and labour but it is basic economics .
But we all know labour wouldn't know basic economics if it slapped them in the face.
Sid
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Another point, a saving for government. The £300k paid by the Scottish Arts Council to teach inmates in a young offenders institution how to improve the standard of their street Graffiti is one I would suggest is removed pretty quickly. Along with all those who sanctioned such an idiotic scheme.
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North Highlander:
#108.
"Those born in poverty have a poor set of choices, no matter how hard they try they will be more likely to need the NHS than those born in affluent families."
However if my ideas turned into a reality, could we not spend money on poverty in order to better the lives of the next generation?
"To penalise someone for where they were born is just simply wrong. We as a nation need the NHS, it is one of our success stories and we need to stick with it through the tough times."
I don't need the NHS, personally.
"We can make it better, no doubt. I agree that the prescription charges changes should be dropped, these essentially benefit those that can already pay. I also would scrap the partial free parking at hospitals, would seriously look at the number of administrators and managers, the whole sysstem can be made more efficient."
I find your position quite contradicting. If your willing to allow individuals who can afford to, buy their perscriptions then why should the NHS be treated differently? There both to benefit the nations medical care.
"But fundamentally it is a good system that defines our values as a society, free treatment at the point of need, no other decisions, it doesn't matter who you are , what you are you will be treated."
I also disagree. It should matter based on who you are because the taxpayers pay for this system and outsiders should not be entitled to treatment that they've not contributed towards.
I also have a duty to maximise our services. The reality is that our services is limited, what else can I do apart force individuals to take responsibilities for their actions? It's quite easy to pick on the NHS as most of our budget goes towards the NHS.
"If we are to create a society in Scotland of equal opportunities then the NHS is one of the fundamental institutions that underpin this. I have no desire to go back to the days when my great Grandfather died of appendicitis due to not being able to afford the operation. The result of this was the break up of the family and the end of my Grandfathers education, at the age of 12. From that day on he had to work to eat."
I'm not suggesting we begin denying medical care but I am suggesting individuals pay something for problems they brought on upon themselves.
"The good old days eh! It is always the poorest and most vulnerable that suffer when you pay for healthcare. Choices are fine, if you can afford them. If you are a binman on £12-15k a year, with a family how can you afford £25k for a heart operation, to say nothing of the on costs of care and medication?"
It's not the first time I insisted on a change of the NHS, the last time I thought individuals should pay a small proportion of their treatment in order to keep overall costs down.
"Personal responsibility is an issue, but it should be that everyone should do what they can to contribute to society. So those who can work should work. We have too many not working that could, so when the economy picks up these should be helped into work and paying their way."
And, what shall we do to those that do not contribute?
"However your assertion that people take responsibility for their own healthcare is grossly unfair and would devlop a Scotland that I don't want to see. Thankfully the overwhelming majority of Scots would agree with me."
I am not suggesting people take responsibility for their own healthcare.
I am suggesting that if a person brings problems upon themselves they should pay for it, but those with problems outwith their control should receive help.
If people pay for their problems the bring upon themselves then those with problems outwith their control can receive more help. It goes both ways.
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Thomas:
One reason for the welfare state is to prevent crime. Deny people support and they will turn to crime simply to feed themselves in some cases.
As to health, let me give you an example:
I used to smoke, and nine years ago I suffered a collapsed lung. But the pneumothorax (how's that for a word!) was not caused by smoking, but by the fact that I am built like a toast rack. I was in hospital for a week and out of work for a year. But it was not down to smoking (and yes I did stop).
But using your proposal because I was a smoker then the first consideration would be it was my "own fault", and therefore I should go home, where I would have died.
While I agree that the welfare state needs reformed, don't write it off. I never relied on it at all until I this happened. I owned my flat, but without support I would not have been able to feed my family.
Be thankful we have a safety net out there. You never know when you may need it.
104. At 08:58am on 06 Nov 2009, JRMacClure:
Don't give the government any ideas!!
88. At 00:56am on 06 Nov 2009, MagisterIlluminatus:
Artillery is far cheaper than missiles, and missiles are not unerringly accurate. Any missile which relies on laser or infra-red targetting can be deflected using decoys or jamming.
A single self-propelled howitzer can carry far more shells than a missile carrier can. MRLS system is a "one-shot" system than requires reloading. The howitzer is also capable of laying down a barrage which is more effective than a single missile.
Don't fall into the myth that modern technology beats everything. The Taleban have proved what is possible with basic weaponry.
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Regarding smoking (I'm a non-smoker), the duty paid by smokers is much more than the cost to the NHS of their healthcare. In addition their tendency towards premature death saves a fair bit on the state pension.
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North Highlander:
#109.
"Being 17 is not an excuse for not thinking through the basic fundamentals of what makes a decent society."
Age does not make a difference. It comes down to our version of the perfect society. Although I would prefer to see some type of utopia, I believe that resources are limited and I (if I were a politician) would be looking maximise all that I can.
"Everyone in our nation should get an equality of opportunity in life, peole like Thomas would restrict opportunities to those with wealth, the end result of this is wasted lives and wasted talent. We have had those years in Scotland, lets not go back there."
I am not promoting inequality either. I am simply suggesting if you choose to smoke, drink, drive carelessly etc which results in a problem for yourself, you should accept your faults.
What do I get for living a clean life? Nothing!
Your version of equality is quite funny when your spending more money on certain individuals and leaving out lil ole me.
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110. sidthesceptic
Another SNP myth.
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Neil_Small147:
But, you said it yourself your problem was not caused by smoking...
If that was the case the NHS would have provided case, if not you'd have been asked to repay your bill overtime.
If I had hundreds of civil servents I could explain my idea in detail.
or we could introduce something where you pay more towards the NHS if you bring problems upon yourself, so it acts like car insurance.
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As someone who had very little to do with the NHS in the first 40 years of my life ,boy am I making up for lost time now. you never know what is around the corner.
is the NHS being run correctly - NO ,can it be run more efficiently-YES, have they got far too many managers/auditors/ chief executives and indeed health boards-YES
can we turn it around and use what money we have in a far better way? well we can't do a worse job than they have in the past can we???
Sid
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Brian, you grudgingly admit that Iain Gray was "reasonably effective" yesterday (when most of the papers agree that he absolutely skewered Salmond) but then you go on invent an answer that Salmond never gave to a question that Gray might have asked but didn't.
Am I the only one who thinks that is bizarre?
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#116 north highlander - sorry sir , I didn't realise that you had some
experience of working in the pharmacy sector!
I am not a member of the SNP but I know it is not a myth.
Sid
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106. Thomas_Porter
"106. At 09:13am on 06 Nov 2009, Thomas_Porter wrote:
JRMacClure:
#104.
"Have you ever in your life smoked a cigarette or taken a drink of alcohol? Are you a single pound over weight? Do you keep your cholesterol to the official government-approved level? Do you make sure that there isn't anything in your yard you might accidentally trip over? Because before we give you ANY health care we're gong to send a policeman over to examine your entire life and if we find you haven't met our government-approved lifestyle, OUT YOU GO!"
This is slightly ridiculous. Your quite unwilling to be held responsible for your own actions, I wonder why."
Well, since you ask, I'll tell you.
Because although I can afford health care, I know people who can't.
In America, people who can't afford health care DO frequently go without and they die because of it. So, unlike you, I know what I'm talking about.
What you just did, my young friend, is called an argumentum ad hominem. Instead of arguing your position, you tried to attack me as a person.
It lays you open to falling into a deep pit, is a low tactic and a poor debating technique. I suggest you eschew it in the future.
And actually, no, my comments are not ridiculous. There is no other way you would you know whether a person's illness was "their own fault" unless you investigated their lifestyle.
#107. At 09:21am on 06 Nov 2009, Diabloandco
It's an awful situation. It was done by a career army officer who happened to be Islamic. But he vehemently opposed both the Iraq and Afghanistan wars and was about to be sent there. But how that led him to kill people who were as much victims of those as anyone...
I think you can guess how I feel about all this. There is a fair amount of resentment and distrust against people who seem Islamic in this country and this certainly won't help.
Horrible. I don't know how we'll deal with it. At the moment, I just feel a lot of shock over it.
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North Sea "could haul UK out of huge debt"
http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/1470491/
Sir Ian Wood (of the Wood Group) recons the oil industry could be the saviour of the UK economy.
That would be the Scottish oil industry that will ONCE AGAIN bail out the UK, while Scotland and the Scottish people face harsh cuts to "pay our share" of the economic crisis created by Westminster.
The "Sir" in Ian Woods title would suggest which side of the fence he would be on in the independence/unionist debate.
The union is actively asset striping Scotland to make independence at least difficult if not impossible. Coal, steel, shipbuilding, whisky, finance, oil all destroyed or squandered. What does Scotland have to show for it? Nothing.
The sooner we are free of these Westmonster wasterels the better.
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Coming back to the original issue of spending cuts, many people here are quick to blame Labour for the recession, and there is no doubt that Brown and Darling must share some of the blame for not regulating the banks more effectively, but we must not forget that the two banks that have taken the lions share of tax payers money are both Scottish!
With the announcement this week that the government now owns 84% of RBS, and has pumped a staggering £44billion into keeping it afloat, surely Sir Fred must take a huge stake of the blame. I am also annoyed at the SNP's stance on this. Salmond and Swinney spent years talking up Iceland as a model for Scotland with their banking industry, there is no way that they would have regulated the banks more than Labour did. Even if under independence we had a budget of £70bn (double the Scottish budget today) we would not have been able to afford the bank bailout, meaning we would have been in an even worse mess than Iceland had we been independent in 2008.
So, how do we balance the budget now? The principle must surely be, that those who can afford to pay should do so. I think the SNP have had some good ideas - putting up income tax at the expense of council tax is one, but their other ideas are not so good.
1)Prescription charges should be means tested, not scrapped altogether
2)Means tested Graduate endownment should be brought back
3)The new Forth Bridge should be at least part funded through tolls (with exemptions for some eg district nurses)
4)As part of the solution to the funding crisis facing local government, they should look at merging local authorities eg Stirling and Clackmannanshire
These are just a few ideas that might help us
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110. At 09:32am on 06 Nov 2009, sidthesceptic:
How do you equate that the cost of collecting prescription charges is greater than the cost of the prescription?
Not a pharmacist, but since you require registration from the NHS authority to sign and dispense any controlled drugs, any costs will be collected via a central point, bar the small independent chemists. For example, Boots will pay the charges centrally.
I've worked in the public sector with budgets and I've never come across a situation where the collection of money outweighs the service. (Well, maybe PFI!)
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JRMacClure:
#121.
"Well, since you ask, I'll tell you.
Because although I can afford health care, I know people who can't.
In America, people who can't afford health care DO frequently go without and they die because of it. So, unlike you, I know what I'm talking about.
What you just did, my young friend, is called an argumentum ad hominem. Instead of arguing your position, you tried to attack me as a person."
If you read above, you were claiming an 'I know best' attitude based on your assumption that I have not lived in the states, or even understand the vast differences in attitude between Americans and British.
However since your not British then I will suggest you do not fully understand the British system, as you seem to be prepared to suggest that simply because I am not American.
Do you believe a person should take responsibilities for their actions? Yes or No.
Oh, I am not suggesting we leave individuals high and dry. I am suggesting individuals repay their hospital treatments overtime. It lowers the standard of debates when you take anothers persons opinion out of context for your own political purposes. I have no interest on copying the Americans on their healthcare and would love for you to point out where I promoted any such idea.
"And actually, no, my comments are not ridiculous. There is no other way you would you know whether a person's illness was "their own fault" unless you investigated their lifestyle."
It is ridiculous because doctors can see the difference between individuals who have spent years abusing alcohol or smoking. It would also be pointless lying as doctors need to know exactly what you've done, or you may not be treated properly anyway.
However all of it can be avoided if you choosed to live a clean life, but again it appears you don't want individuals to accept their mistakes. You'll happy allow the healthy to pay thousands of pounds of your healthcare.
That's your choice but I would much rather invest in real priorities in this country and not pay for your own mistakes.
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122. X_Sticks
That is one of the most blatantly outrageous articles I've ever read. Strip Scotland of the rest of its (rather considerable) remaining oil to prop up Westminster.
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124. Neil_Small147
I suspect he was talking about means testing. If you have never run across means testing being more expensive than the money raised, then you don't have a lot of experience with examining the costs associated. He's quite correct on that. Rather than saving money, it costs it.
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Edin Chris:
#123.
"...but we must not forget that the two banks that have taken the lions share of tax payers money are both Scottish!"
Nonesense.
The banks paid taxes to the British Treasury and those taxes were spent throughout the United Kingdom. The banks are also regulated by the British Government.
"I am also annoyed at the SNP's stance on this. Salmond and Swinney spent years talking up Iceland as a model for Scotland with their banking industry, there is no way that they would have regulated the banks more than Labour did."
They also used Norway, Sweden, Denmark amougst others as examples. Yes, Iceland had their failures brought upon themselves by their Governments but Scotland apart of the United Kingdom has to adopt British failure too.
"Even if under independence we had a budget of £70bn (double the Scottish budget today) we would not have been able to afford the bank bailout, meaning we would have been in an even worse mess than Iceland had we been independent in 2008."
Ridiculous. There is no evidence whatsoever to prove Scotland would have followed every single British policy as we are if we had been an independent nation. It's scaremongering at it's best we have here!
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115. Thomas_Porter
Thomas look at the examples above. In your world who would decide on liability? Who would decide if Neil lived or died? The doctor? I am pretty sure they would tell you they wouldn't do it. Some manager? You?
I am not sure any of us should be making such decisions. To me that is Politics too far.
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124. Neil_Small147
Norway doesn't appear to be bankrupt and is much more like Scotland. Funny how the unionists prefer not to mention that.
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Gordon Brown and corruption
"cronies and warlords should have no place in the future of Afghanistan".
Good grief, shame he and his party don't practice what he preaches at home. New labour are the very epitome of corrupt, self serving, cronyism and warmongering without due cause.
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#123
where to start... You seem to be making quite a few assumptions
First of all, the banks are not Scottish. they have Scotland in their name, but are global institutions. If Scotland was to bail out any part it would be the parts based in Scotland (i.e not natwest, Halifax, etc)
second given that the UK had the worst regulation (or equal worst), and was basically the catalyst for the US changing its regulatory regime, why do you assume that Scotland would have followed the UK, and not say france or germany?
third 1.5 million barrels of oil a day (using a figure from earlier in this thread, or the last thread).
fourth £35 billion is Scotland's devolved budget. Please compare like with like.
fifth the UK can't afford the bank bailout as it is being carried out. that is why there is a budget defecit of $500 million per day. What do you think it is going to use to help pay back the debt *cough* point 3 *cough*
What you have produced is typical of the unionist scaremongering that has gone on since the start of this recession. It is poorly thought out and based on false assumptions.
John
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#125. Haha. Someone how makes an ad hominem attack on me acccuses ME of lowering the tone of the debate.
Well, I will be quite happy to repeat what where you did not merely suggest but made the cold-blooded statement that you would send someone who didn't have money home to die:
I would not watch and individual die, but I will also expect the person to return home if they refuse to cover their own costs.
As far as the "real priorities" of your country, you might pay a BIT more attention to what other posters FROM your country have said. They do not share your priority that money is more important than human life and human suffering.
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morning,#124 neil,scripts need to be separated into different types, in the branch, before they are collected and transported to Edinburgh where they check the scripts are in the right pile. the amount of people in Scotland who were still paying for any scripts was reducing to a point that yes the cost of running the system was outweighed by the payments made. with obvious anomaly's like district nurses having to get people on their death beds ,or worse their relatives, to pay for scripts that they need.
on the other hand we could actually enquire into the prices the Governments are prepared to pay large pharmaceutical company's for the drugs we require. the swine flu vaccination being a case in point!
Sid
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I accidentally referenced #124 instead of #123. Sorry--not nearly enough sleep here.
Speaking of which, I'd better try to get some.
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#132 and #123
OK I misread part of your post, so my point 4 makes no sense. However the point should be: What makes you think that scotland's budget will be only double the devolved budget? And what has the budget got to do with it anyway? The UK is in a budget defecit funded by, amongst other things, our future oil revenues. Why do you deny an independant Scotland the right to do a similar thing if it chose? If it needed to?
John
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Great post X-sticks, finally some of the myths can come out of the bag.
"“Even now, UK’s oil and gas enhances our economy and balance of payments by some £30billion per annum.”
30 billion, and just happens to equal the total that Scotland gets back block grant from London to run everything.
Lets not forget the other side of the equation. UK has to pass onto consumer the costs of its shortfall on oil imports and Gas eg the 40% of UK Gas that is piped directly to England from Norway which is passed onto all UK consumers despite the fact that Scotland only users one sixth of what WE produce in Gas will all the rest piped South of the border.
People in Scotland need a serious wake up.
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Devolution and autonomy for the north East of Scotland and you can keep Alex the Salmond, lets be as selfish its all mine
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I wonder who this was?
http://waugh.standard.co.uk/2009/11/nadine-spills-the-beans-on-letchy-labour-mps.html
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No 128 and No 132:
Let me explain things a bit. Yes, the banks were regulated (badly) by the UK Government, however their headquarters are in Scotland, so just like the Icelandic banks, although they had expanded and invested heavily in other countries, responsibility for them ultimately rests with the country they are based in. As Scotland is part of the UK, responsiblity for regulating them rested with the UK and the UK Government bailed them out. Had we been independent, responsibility for regulating them would have rested in Scotland, and the Scottish Government would have had to bail them out.
In the years leading up to 2007, Salmond and Swinney were repeatedly calling for less, not more regulation so we would have been in the same position in an independent country, the difference being that we would not have been able to find the £70bn needed to bail out RBS and HBoS so we would have been bankrupt!
As for oil, according to Swinney's own figures http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2009/07/28112701/4 in 2008-9 oil generated a total of £13bn. This is a substantial figure, and I agree that more of this money should be invested in Scotland, but it is dwarfed by the amount that we had to pay out last year to keep the banks going!
I think people should look seriously at the Calman Commission's suggestions, as I honestly think this offers Scotland the best of both worlds.
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North Highlander:
#129
For me, it's not a question about if Neil should die or not. It's a question on how much for how long should Neil pay towards the NHS for his treatment. However as Neil pointed out it was a problem outwith his control and not brought upon himself because of his smoking.
JRMacClure:
#133.
"Well, I will be quite happy to repeat what where you did not merely suggest but made the cold-blooded statement that you would send someone who didn't have money home to die:
I would not watch and individual die, but I will also expect the person to return home if they refuse to cover their own costs."
Yes, you have certainly lowered the level of debate. Your beginning to misrepresent what I actually said. I did not suggest a person who can't afford to pay should be ignored by doctors and the exact statement you qouted stated that a person who refused to pay altogether should not receive help.
I am questioning you as a person because I asked th emost basic question, "Do you believe a person should take responsibilities for their actions?" and yet I am waiting for an answer.
You appear willing to allow everyone to do as their please and for the state to pick up the tab. But what about me and the others who take care of themselves?
"As far as the "real priorities" of your country, you might pay a BIT more attention to what other posters FROM your country have said. They do not share your priority that money is more important than human life and human suffering."
This is nonesense too. It was not a question about money or human life. I believe that a person should take responsibility for their choices in life and should contribute towards their treatment by the NHS.
It would then free up funds to either re-invest in those who have problems outwith their control, education etc whatever we wanted.
I originally wanted to go to college. I can't afford going to college and the economic situation has made it harder to find a career and I don't qaulify for help to attend college because since my parents earn beyond most ordinary families it is assumed that they'll look after me.
Now, if my life can be played around, why should I not play around with the fates of others?
The world is not and will never be equal and I suggest you grow a back bone and take responsibility for yourself and stop expecting people like me to fund your failures.
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Edin Chris:
#140.
"As Scotland is part of the UK, responsiblity for regulating them rested with the UK and the UK Government bailed them out. Had we been independent, responsibility for regulating them would have rested in Scotland, and the Scottish Government would have had to bail them out."
You've said it yourself, responsibility falls onto the UK, so why pin it on the Scots and claim the banks to be Scottish? Had we been independent, we may have went a different way altogether so why must an independent Scotland automatically mean we'd fail?
"In the years leading up to 2007, Salmond and Swinney were repeatedly calling for less, not more regulation so we would have been in the same position in an independent country, the difference being that we would not have been able to find the £70bn needed to bail out RBS and HBoS so we would have been bankrupt!"
If we'd been independent the SNP would not exist and Salmond and Swinney would not be in the position there in now.
"I think people should look seriously at the Calman Commission's suggestions, as I honestly think this offers Scotland the best of both worlds."
Yes we'll enjoy the borrowing powers... oh wait, David Cameron has ruled them out!
I guess we will enjoy using the income tax powers although we have never varied the rates of our income tax despite having the powers to do so for the last 10 years, so whats the difference?
Calman is a joke. It offers practically nothing.
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Bail out of RBS and HBOS is ongoing and is going to cost considerably more than the £70B quoted even taking into account much of the Toxic assets hived off to HMG with insurance premiums etc. It is my opinion that the QE is another way for HMG to assist to reflate the banks that are still well bust. The stress testing results of banks that the FSA refused to publish May this year allowed for depreciations of commercial property -60%,private property -50% and unemployment of 12%. We almost have and will achieve the -60% of commercial property, we will have 12% unemployment and as current media hype suggests house prices are rising, Smell a rat? were the stress test parameters sufficiently bleak?
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#140
There is a difference between regulation and ignoring impending trouble. The UK first of all created the regulatory regime that allowed the banks to get into trouble, and then ignored that trouble when it was flagged up a year before it broke. How can you be so sure that an independant Scotland would have followed the same path?
I think that you would have also found that the Halifax and Natwest (and Lloyds) would have been wholly owned subsiduaries, with their head offices in England. England would have taken the tax from those parts of the group, and would have been responsible for te bail out of them. Scotland would have had to bail out the group head office functions, the scottish morgage securities and other functions based in Scotland. That would have cost money, but not the money you are talking about. The difference with the iceland situation is that the icelandic banks were based in Iceland, and doing their business over the internet from iceland. The accounts (and Money) were being held in iceland, not the UK.
As for the revenue, who knows the full story, certainly not you, as the figures are not released for proper scrutiny. All we can do is look at similar countries with similar resources to get an idea of how much revenue we would have. I would also have to check, but I believe that the £13 billion was extra revenue per year solely from oil. what happens when you add in whisky, water, electricity, and yes banking?
John
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#142
I believe that the calman proposals are so bad that to use the tax varying power as sepecified would be stupid beyond belief. after all if the income tax is reduced to stimulate the economy, this will increase the UK tax take, not Scotlands, so no benefit, and less money to spend. If on the other hand we chose to increase income tax, we would harm our economy, and the extra money would not be available as it would be removed from the block grant that we were given.
so lose-lose then.
John
ps. I cannot believe that the second part is correct (tax increased part), but have been told repeatedly that this is how it works. If anyone knows any better then please let me know.
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The easiest way to save millions would be to close the toy parliment at Hollyrood.
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Won't be posting too much for a few days, got a suspect fracture in my right index finger and the chemist taped it to the middle finger - nightmare trying to type!
Anyway, came across this gem re Sesame Street:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8340141.stm
The para:
"The show crossed the Atlantic 18 months after its US launch, but the BBC rejected it because of its "authoritarian aims" in trying to change children's behaviour.
"This sounds like indoctrination, and a dangerous extension of the use of television," said the head of children's programmes at the time, Monica Simms. "
Wonder what she would make of the current bias in the BBC today!!
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146 Sweatyidiot
You can't spell so toddle off!
Best way to save money is to get rid off the Union and that stinking Westminster parliament. Troughers/Lords/2nd homes etc... etc... you know what I mean. Leave Scotland and her people to look after themselves and if we become independent your very welcome to join us.
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Edinchris
You are a naive Unionist!
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149
I fear that edinchris has been subjected to the scaremongering for so long that there is no turning back, he's lost. In the words of darth vader "it is to late for me son, you do not know the power of the dark side". Rather continue with what he's given that to strive for more.
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Brian,
One cheer for this week's Big Debate from Dundee, to which I just listened live.
With your panel consisting of Alan Cochrane from the Torygraph, Tory Peer Lord Fraser of Carmyllie, NuLab Mid Scotland and Fife MSP Richard Simpson and SNP Dundee East MP Stewart Hosie it wasn't quite as glencambly as last week's sorry effort from Glasgow.
But how did you manage to avoid a single question on the by-election, and when will you be planning a programme without NuLab representation to compensate for last week's bias-ridden charade?
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Latest Hootsmon from Conon the Librarian
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_zZU8tobW0Ps/SvNCgG5fTjI/AAAAAAAAAeA/SW2CjjaznP4/s1600-h/Hootsmon+2parody.1.2guy.jpg
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No 149/150
That's funny, I always thought it was the Nationalists that were naive! Don't worry boys, there is still a chance to see the light!
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# 102 Thomas_Porter
If I drink, smoke, speed or do anything that may be dangerous it's my choice.
People who don't drink or smoke will eventually die being healthy ;-)
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# 108 northhighlander
Absolutely right.
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#153 edinchris
I guess you have no answers then. Are you just going to resort to namecalling. how old are you? 7?
John
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Interesting news in this website's Cameron 'won't block powers vote' that having just abandoned one referendum attempt, he's given Wales the assurance his SoSW will allow one for an upgrade of their Assembly, unlike the ex-Liberal apostate Hain, NuLab's current one.
Wonder what Aunty Bella makes of that?
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edinchris A 140
I can't get my head round why we would be concerned with HBoS post independence. I stumble at the first word in the title.
From the front page of today's Press and Journal the £30billion Sir Ian Wood mentions along with the 25 billion barrels of known reserves would have gone a long way towards any theoretical support required by banks in an independent Scotland.
Further to that was bankrupting the country to support the bankrupt banks the correct decision?
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Hey Edin Chris,
This is the moment that your suppose to actually defend your arguments.
I am sure we would all enjoy reading why the Calman is the best of both worlds...
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#122 x_sticks
I posted this yesterday but by the time the moderator passed it we were onto another thread.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/edmundconway/6505670/North-Sea-oil-is-dragging-us-into-the-red.ht
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#160 add an ml onto the end of the link to get the page
John
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160. tullibardine
Your link isn't working NS Oil
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edinchris check out 160's link (sticl ml on the end)
We only have a few more years to put all that oil revenue to good use on the 5 million scots or would you rather spread it over 60 million uk citizens, nothing wrong with us being a bit selfish now when westminster have been doing it for decades. It's ours buddy, yours, mine, my old boys, my daughters, the ladie i sit next to at work. Lets take it back and along with it our independence, our pride and a new vision for the future.
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You could not make this up if you really, really tried to:
Crown Estate’s high rents ‘pose a threat’ to Hewett gas storage project.
A billion-pound project to develop Europe’s largest gas storage facility in the North Sea is close to collapse because the Crown Estate, the owner of the UK seabed, is obstructing its development, The Times has learnt.
With North Sea gas production in steep decline, this winter Britain will have to import a record 50 per cent of its gas supplies, up from only 27 per cent in 2007.
On February 20, during the dispute between Russia and Ukraine, the volume of gas being stored in Britain hit a low of 1.2 billion cubic meters, not enough to meet three days of average gas demand during unseasonably cold weather.
What joined up thinking?
With regards the colder climate in Scotland and consequently the higher costs of gas, I bet the Scottish people are cock-a-hoop that they are married to such a bizarre and profligate setup.
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#158
Not quite accurate.. Wood doesn't mention anything about an independent Scotland but specifically says "North Sea oil and gas industry could be the saviour of the UK economy and haul the country out of its massive debt".
He also talks about the huge amounts that could flow to the Treasury if they did the right thing on taxation.
Wood is of course doing a lobbying job for the industry but the idea of improving production levels simply to help out the Treasury is one that really sticks in my throat. If that happened we know don't we that the money would flow to the banks or to Afghanistan and wouldn't be reinvested properly back into the economy of either the UK or Scotland.
However it's also important with Wood that you take most of what he says with a pinch of salt. After all, he was the one who said spending £150m on a new park in the middle of Aberdeen would help it become the Houston of the East..
Sadly he didn't explain where the space port was going to be built..
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To John No 144/145:
You are correct in that I cannot predict beyond doubt what an independent Scottish Government would have done, but what annoys me is those that see this as purely Labour's recession. It is very easy to be wise after the event, but I do not recall hearing the SNP ever call for tighter banking regulation. In fact, the only UK politician that can honestly say they saw it coming is Vince Cable, the Lib Dem finance spokesman.
As far as the Scottish banks are concerned, they had taken over not just Natwest and Halifax but also foreign oan banks such as ABN Amro. When you take over another bank, you assume liability for its debts, so the bailout for RBS and HBoS would have been borne by Scottish taxpayers had we been independent.
My point about the Calman commission is that I feel that devolution has scope for improvement and giving Holyrood fiscal responsibility would be a good start. Surely for instance increasing income tax at the expense of council tax (which I fully accept is a good idea from the SNP) would make housing in Scotland more affordable, and so help our economy. Also, I like the idea of having the Scottish Secretary report to Holyrood and the First Minister report to Westminster to improve relations between the two Parliaments. At the end of the day, we can always gain more from cooperation than conflict (which seems to be the main SNP policy.)
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See gordon brown has finally joined the by-election campaign according to this website.
Pity that the only thing that he can say just highlights that we are in a recession created by him (and the worst recession in living memory at that), and that while his UK government is plunging its head ever deeper into the sand (and morgaging our future to an even greater degree), the government here is actually trying to do something fiscally sensible to help.
John
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Oops, sorry.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/edmundconway/6505670/North-Sea-oil-is-dragging-us-into-the-red.html
Thanks.
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#160 tullibardine
#163 jediirnbru
There is no doubt that the oil is in decline. However, there is still a considerable amount that can be extracted. What worries me is that under Westmonster management the oil industry will be pressured to produce as much as it can as fast as it can (as was the case under Thatcher). This can have consequences on the amount that can actually be extracted from reservoirs - maximising production can often cause the reservoir to collapse, which can mean that what is left cannot be economically extracted.
With careful management of production (the Norwegian model) there would be more than enough for Scotland to create and support a rebuilding of our economy before it runs out. Under the Union it will just be squandered as has everything that has been produced to date. I would want an independent Scottish government to work with the oil industry to maximise what is left of the resource, and use the proceeds to create a Scotland that can be powered by renewables to provide a secure future.
We have to ask ourselves what we want for our children. A Scotland that is bankrupt and hopeless, or a Scotland that has a sound future.
The choice is in our hands.
I know what my choice would be.
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#165 Wee-Scamp
Wee-Scamp I posted the following on a previous thread.
Not all things are gloomy:
Future space role for Scotland.
The president of Virgin Galactic said yesterday that Scotland's strengths in innovation and invention plus its capabilities and expertise in advanced engineering meant it could play a vital role in developing new technology for the commercial space industry, which is expected to be a global industry of the future.
The RAF base at Lossiemouth is Virgin Galactic’s first UK choice as a spaceport for commercial space flights.
What glowing praise for Scotland and its people, pity the MSM can’t emulate it.
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Smile
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Edinchris
Please tell me exactly when and by whom the Halifax was "Taken over"?
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Online Ed Here
Newsnet Scotland has the latest figures on Glasgow North East electoral role totals and postal ballots.
Glasgow North East - Surge In Postal Ballots
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#166 I get your point about predicting the baking crisis. However I would point out that tieing us to the UK's policies and regulatory regime is tieing us to the country that is uniquely badly placed to ride out the storm. I would also point out that it was Gordon Brown's deregulation of the banks and allowing mixed banking that forced the US to change its regulation and this is what caused the whole crisis. So while it is a "global" crisis, it started at number 11 when a certain person was residing there.
As for your second paragraph, what you have said is not always true. Remeber there would have been different regulation between the two countries, and so the banks would not have been a single entity. The scottish bank could have decided not to support its English subsiduary. The subsiduary would have gone bust and the parent bank would have remained. There would have been limited liability between the two. The irony is that this sort of regime would have almost certainly been insisted on by the regulatory bodies in London.
The problem if you remember with the ABN Amro takeover is that RBS so depleted its reserves to accomplish the takeover that it had nothing left to stabalise itself when the bad debt hit in the mortgage sector.
Devolution can be improved. But Calman is not the way. it is a botch to try to appease as many gullible scots as possible without actually releasing any of the fiscal levers of power. I notice that you did not say fiscal autonomy. At least you haven't swallowed that one. Under Calman, the only lever of fiscal independance is one we already have (income tax rate)(and have not used for 10 years bacause it is so blunt and counterproductive).
I disagree that the SNP are bent on conflict with westminster. None of the "battles" that have happened are unjustified, and it is actually refreshing to have a government that is looking out for us. (in the same way as you would not say that a school kid who was asking for his lunch money back off the school bully was picking a fight. A fight might happen, but who is to blame?)
As an aside, I think that the devolution settlement would have been much tighter and without any grey areas had the London parties ever thought that the SNP would have gotten into power.
I agree: in the current setup the two governments should be in regular contact at an official level.
John
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#171 cynicalHighlander
You have excelled yourself. Keep them coming they are a tonic, especially in these dour times.
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edinchris
I've been reading your contributions with interest and thought I'd comment on them.
I have to say that this recession is Labour's fault, actually, I will make my thoughts clearer on this. They have been in power for over a decade, and have not used that time to construct an economy with enough depth, diversity, nor strength to cope with the current situation. So the impact is all the greater due to their gross mismanagement. They had every opportunity to plan for all eventualities, which they didn't and look at the consequences of that lack of planning.
I totally agree that cooperation is required, but outwith the present Union. I've mentioned my thoughts on this before, so apologies to those who have seen this, but the ending of the Union will allow the various nations in the UK to reinvent themselves, their societies and economies.
In short, Scottish independence will be good for England, as well as for ourselves. The UK economy is a mess, due to the reliance on Scottish natural resources. Take away that resource and common sense wil have to prevail, to the benefit of our friends and cousins south of the border. If we do not take the opportunity of independence, then we condemn, not only ourselves to poverty and years of uncertainty, but those in the other parts of the current UK who have been living within an economic lie for decades.
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146. Sweatysock2
Oh, yes! The one at Westminster is SO admirable it should run Scotland for all eternity. And Scotland will flourish economically under its excellent management just as it does now. Does it not?
By the way, anyone who thinks that putting a headquarters of a company somewhere means that it is actually run from there, I have a bridge I'd be happy to sell you. As for Scottish bankrupty under that situation, funny thing but Iceland appears to be pretty effectively struggling through their rough times--PAYING OFF THEIR DEBT unlike the UK. They'll come out a stronger and better people having learned valuable lessons. So maybe unionists should stop using them as an example.
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Anyone notice the latest Unionist scare headline in The Times - 'BNP may come 3rd in Glasgow NE'.
Looks like the shortening of 'bookies odds' on the SNP chances of success has got the establishment preparing for the worst. If Bainpot looses you can see the headline on this web site and across the Unionist media: Late BNP surge costs Labour Glasgow NE seat. (Libdems and Tories loose deposit)
Aye.... that'll be right!
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An apology if this has been posted previously. It is the article by Sir Ian Wood:
North Sea ‘could haul UK out of huge debt’.
Call for government to work with industry to boost output
This guy is calling on our Lairds and Masters to use some joined up thinking. Considering my comment at #164 it appears that he is on a ‘no hoper’.
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141. Thomas_Porter
"I suggest you grow a back bone and take responsibility for yourself and stop expecting people like me to fund your failures."
My dear child, when you grow up enough to debate a topic without making personal attacks on the person you are trying to debate, we'll talk further.
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180. JRMacClure
Thomas's comment I thought was wierd - considering that you are one of the few posters on here who actually does have to fund their own health care :-)
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Glad someone was able to capture the original before being corrected.
Scots and Independent
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#163 jediirnbru
I could not agree more. Our political elite at Westmidden, for over 30 years, have urinated Britain’s income from this commodity on their pet projects instead of building a fund to invest in our futures, and in a way that does not falsely prop up our economy.
Oil has now passed its peak and with what is left Scotland should be building up a fund to invest in ways that will not add a future burden to the Scottish economy as our lairds and masters down south have done.
Scotland should use this fund to invest in renewable energy, after all due to its unique and bountiful natural terrain Scotland could quite easily become energy self sufficient. This fund could also invest in manufacturing, research and design in niche technology markets of the future.
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Online Ed Here
Here are the top political stories in The Herald right now:
G20 summit: Chancellor warns climate change deal 'essential'
Gordon Brown’s flying visit to Glasgow North East campaign
Gordon Brown pledges jobs for all
We will not walk away from Afghanistan, says Brown
PM to hit the by-election campaign trail
Brown to pledge he won’t walk away from war in Afghanistan
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184. U14094468
Can they not add this one.
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#182 cynicalHighlander
I wonder if Delboy Barker wrote it for him?
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185. cynicalHighlander
"
"
Or this one?
http://johnrentoul.independentminds.livejournal.com/196919.html
"Gordon's smelly socks"
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#146
The by far the easist way save huge sums of maney (apart from stopping sending MPs from Scotland to be outnumbered, at huge cost, in Westminster) would be to get rid of the House of Lords. it has over 760 members (a lot n more than the coommons) and tey all can get around £400 per day just to sign in.
Quorum for this august body on debates on many issues is a princely 3
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181. oldnat
I refused to point that LITTLE detail out simply because I wasn't going to respond to personal attacks--but you are quite right. I pay for my own health care and pay a pretty pence for it indeed. LOL
I also happen to be a non-smoker who is in excellent health, something that is irrelevant in a discussion of the ethical position for a government in caring for the people.
Salus populi suprema lex esto
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186. Roll_On_2010
187. oldnat
LoL maybe we need a French style revolution to get the UK nations out of this quagmire of corruption.
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#168 tullibardine
Appears that your article is a repeat of a long line of propaganda articles thrown out by the unionist over may years. The following article being one of the first:
How black gold was hijacked: North sea oil and the betrayal of Scotland.
In 1975, the Government faced a dilemma: how to exploit the potential of its new oil fields without fuelling demands for Scottish independence. So it buried the evidence.
They lied to the Scottish people.
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Sorry about the link….space in copy and space:
How black gold was hijacked: North sea oil and the betrayal of Scotland.
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Online Ed Here
Here are the top political stories in The Daily Record .... incidently, did you know that Labour accused David Kerr of a "low blow" in last nights STV [well done STV] debate?
Anyway, the records headlines are:
Labour are still on track for historic fourth term in office, insists Prime Minister Gordon Brown
Labour are still on track for historic fourth term in office, insists Prime Minister Gordon Brown
Transport Secretary Lord Adonis blats SNP over Glasgow Airport Rail Link axe
Second Conservative MEP quits over Cameron's Lisbon Treaty u-turn
SNP by-election candidate David Kerr makes blunder over jobseeker's allowance
Isn't it sad that the people most in need of facts and accurate information are being fed this sort of stuff.
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Thomas a connundrum for you Ryan McLaughlin - The One Man 'Halt MS' Campaigner as this is highly probable to be reduced by upping ones vitamin D uptake. Whose in error the parent the sufferer or the latitude that they live in since the more northerly one lives the lack of natural sunlight available. Welfare should be available to all no matter on their individual lifestyles as this can be corrected by education and a more equal distrabution of wealth.
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191. Roll_On_2010
"They lied to the Scottish people."
To be fair, they also lied to the Brits. They pretended that there was no need to restructure the UK economy. Every UK Government since has lied to the Brits, and the Scots too.
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181. oldnat
How hilarious! My comment that I do indeed pay for my own healthcare is being moderated. That is too funny. I pay a pretty pence for it.
I also happen, as I mentioned, am in excellent health and happen to be a non-smoker but that is, as far as I'm concerned, irrelevant to a discussion of the ethical stance of an elected government.
I can't imagine ANYTHING objectionable in that.
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Regarding the moderation on this site:
Here's freedom to him that wad read,
Here's freedom to him that wad write!
There's nane ever fear'd that the truth should be heard,
But they wham the truth wad indite. Rabbie Burns
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You may have noticed that over the last few days the Beeb is having troubles with its blog software.
I don’t know if anybody else is, but I am having trouble when I do a ‘refresh’ in that I frequently get a different format download and have to repeat the ‘refresh’. Its a wonder that the MSM have not put it down to a failure of the SNP Government and/or the CyberNats.
Still I suppose there is time yet….
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196. JRMacClure
"I do indeed pay for my own healthcare"
It's difficult for us to understand. My son gets offered acting roles at Equity rates, but opts for the lower non-Equity rate as he already has Health insurance through his wife's job. If he were an Equity member, he'd have to pay for their Health Insurance.
You live in a wonderful country, but boy! it can be weird at times!
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I also was going to comment on Sir Ian Wood's remarks but I see several posters beat me to it, then I saw on Landward how Scotlands whisky industry was now worth £3 billion, also heard this week that First group employ 130 000 people worldwide.
So of course we are too wee too stupid to ever stand alone, so i suppose i better cancel my SNP membership and give praise to Gordy for saving the world. Ridiculous of course but thats what the unionists seem to believe.
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On a lighter note - Appears that the Chinese have cornered the rubber market:
China to auction Olympics condoms.
I can think of some additional quips but I doubt they would pass moderation.
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199. oldnat
As you are aware, I am a freelancer however, I am also a member of certain writer's organizations through which I can get insurance, fortunately, at a group rate but every pence comes out of my own pocket. And were I to get sick, my out-of-pocket costs would be substantial.
A few years ago when I had to have very major surgery, I still worked for what was then a major US newspaper. Our union contract gave us good coverage, but also a monthly payment that made one cringe if one thought about it too hard.
You are aware, I'm sure, that I strongly support legislation to guarantee SOME degree of medical care for everyone in this, supposedly *cough* the most advanced country in the world.
And by the by, I was mistaken about which of my comments was being moderated. It is the one in which I suggested to Thomas that a mature debate does not include ad hominem attacks. ;-)
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198. Roll_On_2010
They broke it--but I'm SURE it was really the nationalists fault. Everything is. =)
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#200 peteraberdeenshire
Yep Peter, Scotland is to wee to make its own way in the world:
Scottish Mortgage picks up holdings in Chinese stocks.
One of Scotland’s global investment pioneers is blazing a trail into China by taking stakes in companies exposed to its domestic market.
Scottish Mortgage, the £1.3bn flagship of Edinburgh partnership Baillie Gifford founded a century ago, has picked up holdings in four stocks beyond the radar of typical rivals, as it sharpens its focus on what it calls “new growth not old growth”.
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*nudge nudge* I made a small announcement elsewhere.
#204. Interesting article Roll_On. Thanks for the link.
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#167 John__
John I also note that ‘She who must be obeyed’ also slithered quietly into Glasgow NE:
Posh Harriet Harman right at home amid Balornock bourgeoisie.
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205. JRMacClure
"*nudge nudge* I made a small announcement elsewhere."
Quirkies should have a look for JR's most recent on "Collecting the Independence Arguments".
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I just spent some time chatting to a nice Irish woman from Ipsos Mori who were conducting a poll for the English Department of Health. Shh. The DoH still think they cover the UK, and not just England!
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Did anyone see the item on the Channel 4 news tonight about the By-election? (06/11/09)
It was endless shots of Gordon Brown and Willie Bain together together in North Glasgow College with a breathless story about the rise of the BNP in the constituency. Unless you'd heard that the BNP was, "in a fight for third place", at the beginning of the piece you'd have thought that it was a straight Labour - BNP fight in Glasgow.
David Kerr got less of speaking part than Ruth Davidson and Charlie Kennedy spoke for Eileen Baxendale because she's now too much of a liability to let loose on her own on air. Then again, though they interviewed Gordon Brown I don't remember them letting Willie on the air either.
You'd think that as the only challenger to Labour and as a member of the party that is in Government in Scotland that David Kerr would have been the focus of the story but the media is determined to either attack or ignore the SNP.
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I wonder what Iain McMillan has to say about the New Southern General contract being awarded to an Australian company rather than either of the two Scottish companies who were bidding. On the face of it it seems a disappointing outcome for Scottish companies, but it also looks like a case of 'the bite bit', as McMillan has agitated against everything the SNP have done. It does demonstrate that the SNP have some sanctions they can range against the negativity of this man, although I would not claim that this would have been used in this case. I suspect not.
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Just when new initiatives are introduced or start to show a return NuLabour economic mismanagement starts to undermine them.
Ex-offenders radical pilot scheme:
Radical scheme using ex-offenders to help prisoners is huge success.
A radical pilot scheme that uses ex-offenders to rehabilitate prisoners has almost trebled the rate of those going into work or training on release.
Portable metal detectors unveiled in Glasgow:
Knife crime fight gets hi-tech aid with launch of knife detectors.
They were first shown to the public last Friday when Justice Secretary Kenny MacAskill observed a police operation during a visit to Partick rail and subway station.
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Gordon Brown and William Bain support ten minute choo choo train ride over new hospital for Glasgow
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8346970.stm
Three ex Chiefs of Defence Staff are now openly criticising the situation in Afghanistan. Also, the BBC is now starting to openly question what is the current mission.
The original mission had purpose. Now it has lost direction and I cannot see any resolution short of now removing the armed forces.
What blew the whole mission was Iraq. Had Bush Junior decided not to get revenge for Daddy, then Afghanistan would likely been more stable now. However, the shooting by the Afghani policeman has struck a chord with many people.
I never considered the original invasion of Afghanistan to be "illegal". However, circumstances have changed and the best thing is to remove the troops. The Taleban are not going to go away, and Pakistan is now heading the same way. That is likely to bring them into conflict with India, and both countries are nuclear capable. Both countries are out of all the nuclear powers most likely to use them, bar Israel.
The UK has strong ties with both Pakistan and India, and being stuck in the middle of any conflict would be disasterous.
I don't think the Americans know how to deal with the situation either. If they move out there will be a blood bath. If they stay there will be a blood bath.
Vietnam Mark 2?
The only good thing that has come out of the conflict is the MoD finally being taken to task for their shortcomings in failing to supply the Armed Forces correctly.
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213. Neil_Small147
I feel like I should say something about this but am hard pressed to know what. Part of my strong sympathy for independence for Scotland is the conviction that Scotland would not follow the US into these ventures. Every other country in NATO barring the UK has chosen to make largely token efforts in Afghanistan. Not feeling they could totally "blow off" the US, they have sent small forces which they have been at pains to keep out of combat. Now even the UN is threatening to withdraw its staff and leave the corrupt government of this poor, benighted country to sort itself out.
And isn't that what countries are SUPPOSED to do????
As much as I dispise the Taleban and hate their oppression of women, it isn't my country to run. It is up to them to bring themselves out of the middle ages, not us and MUCH of the power of the Taleban is DIRECTLY attributable to interference from both the US and the USSR during the USSR occupation.
Mightn't that have been a HINT that we should stay out of it? But again, apologies, when my government say jump and by the way get your people killed doing it--your WESTMINSTER government says "yes, sir".
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And you all know that we just got our war brought home to us. I am not AT ALL excusing the man who executed mostly unarmed and defenceless soldiers (they don't go about a base like Ft. Hood carrying weapons). The people he killed were only doing the best they could for their own country under orders from their own commander-in-chief. Yet, wasn't at some point this war bound to come home to roost?
Damn it. What do you say? And how do you stop it from hurting? I honestly don't know.
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213. Neil_Small147
We should never have got involved other than using dialouge as nothing ever succeeds by force other than perminent resentment of the more powerful, it needs 21st centuary thinking not past ideologies of invasion to impose an unfamiliar doctrine to its citizens
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215. JRMacClure
The worry is that US Muslims will be alienated by what I've seen of the US media response to that tragedy.
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Just watching the carnage that is Afghanistan on the news. I can't believe we are there after what happened to the Soviet Union. Total madness. The sooner we get rid of this tired, failing, miserable, desperate Brown the better.
And on the new Glasgow hospital, lets remember that despite the press headlines we are not going to be awash with Aussie tradesmen. The jobs will be for the self same workers that the other construction firms would be recruiting.
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214. At 9:43pm on 06 Nov 2009, JRMacClure:
That shooting was tragic. I suppose we will find out why he did it. But some things are triggered by the most unexpected reasons. A friend of mine blew his head off when I was serving. He had no reason to do so but went into a building in Belize and shot himself. And there are a suprising number of suicides in the armed forces every year, although the suicide rate is no higher than civilian life, you just have a better chance of doing it.
A few people say that an independent Scotland would have not gone into Afghanistan. But no one can say one way or other. If we had been independent at the time another party might have been in power, circumstances might have dictated another course of action. Simply put we do not know and there is no point in speculating.
Bottom line is we are in there right now.
If we leave, there is another potential issue - Pakistan.
There is a chance that if the USA and other countries moved out of Afghanistan, the Taleban will impose their will and return to power. This could cause problems in Pakistan, which could lead to problems with India as I have already stated earlier.
The whole area is potentially more dangerous than the Middle East.
As I've said, we cannot change what has happened, but we need to sort out the mess and also learn lessons from the whole episode.
But I suppose you have the hawks out of the White House for a while.
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23. handclapping
handclapping, please chair the next TV debate 8-)
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219. Neil_Small147
We have to stop talking down to people of other countries and converse on an equal footing, its the superior attitude of those in power in the West that is the problem not other countries.
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219 "As I've said, we cannot change what has happened, but we need to sort out the mess and also learn lessons from the whole episode".
The problem Neil is that no one learns any lessons. They always imagine that they'll never make the same mistakes. Iraq? that'll never be like Vietnam. Bassra? That'll never be like the WW1 expedition etc., etc.
We're in Afghanistan and need to be out pronto but I agree with your concerns re Pakistan.
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221 - CH - spot on!
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And there are a suprising number of suicides in the armed forces every year, although the suicide rate is no higher than civilian life, you just have a better chance of doing it.
Not surprising at all to me and in the US the number of suicides in the armed forces is severely under reported.
How do I know?
My own husband's suicide was declared an accident in the autopsy as is customary. A suicide is considered a dishonorable act and reduces the survivor benefits so supposedly as an act of kindness to the family (or possibly to hide the number that take place?) they are normally given that result.
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215. JRMacClure
From what I have heard the man in question had to deal those disturbed soldiers who had returned from these conflict areas where he was destined to be sent for a years tour. Politicians have a lot to answer for on both sides of the pond.
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How to protect ourselves from Eurocreep
"A move towards a written constitution would force a dialogue between political parties and the public. It would involve politicians treating us as more than simpletons, and us treating them with respect. Is either side ready for such a U-turn?"
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#219
Indeed we have to learn. And the first lesson we learn is that whatever the reasons we may invent for riding roughshod into anybody else's country we invariably make matters worse.
Why do we imagine we have some right to "enforce" democracy on other countries? That is an oxymoron. Or do most sensible people believe, as I do, that that is never the reason we march into other people's countries - it's just one of the excuses we produce to make the invasion acceptable to our own home opinion.
The one introverible fact in my opinion is that marching in, killing civilians and destroying the civic infrastucture becomes the major recruiting force for our enemies and increases terrorism.
It is no secret that opium production has rocketed in Afghanistan to provide extra cash for the arming of the Taliban.
The fact of the matter is exactly as it was in Iraq. We are being lied to. It's about the world's diminishing supply of oil. The only way to get the oil (and the natural gas) out of the US puppet regimes in the central Asian republics is through Afghanistan as Russie sits on one side of them and China on the other.
The notion that we can defeat terrorism by controlling the Helmand province or parts of border Pakisatan is poppycock or sh*te as one other percipient poster described it.
The US believes the dead soldiers are a price worth paying to control the oil. They can do so even in chaos or,in fact,rather better when some of the oil producing states are reduced to inoperable shambles, because stable governments might not dance exactly to the tune the US plays.
I don't believe the UK public agrees.
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95. JRMacClure
Well, if you look at the perverse recommended tax raising powers from Calman (so daft they have been forgotten about now?) - remember, the half way house of the Scottish government can alter the level of some tax but the Scottish Treasury only keeps some portion of it...with some going to the UK Treasury?? The daftness is explored here:
http://www.opendemocracy.net/blog/ourkingdom-theme/tom-griffin/2009/08/11/calmans-catch-22
(and the Calmans spell it out very well in the link to the word doc at the bottom.)
So why the carefully convoluted proposals?
So they could make the Scottish government appear to fail.
Public opinion fancied tax raising powers, so Calman had to cover it somehow. This was their effort. Treachery? Pretty much.
Plus... tbc
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#218
Scottish workers at the Southern General? I would hope so, but will the profits stay in Scotland? Perhaps Mr McMillan will get a well deserved rocket from the two companies that lost out.
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One thing worries me for the people of Afghanistan once we finally pull out - these sort of incidents:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/8347216.stm
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230. Neil_Small147
Your concern only makes sense if you are advocating that the UK invades Somalia to stop this kind of activity.
Are you advocating such an invasion?
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230. Neil_Small147
U.S. to double arms, ammunition aid to Somalia
And we do the same. The West is the problem in most of these areas as its good for exports.
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232. cynicalHighlander
Volume of arms exported from the UK by year
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230. Neil_Small147
Maybe we should invade here as well (sorry JR!)
http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/stat/racial.htm
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229. hamish42
Of course the profits won't, but the salaries to the workers and the boost to local economy from the spending of those salaries will. So will the salaries of the many, many people who will work in the hospital and the increase in health to the community. While not by any means a perfect situation, it should be an enormous boost to Glasgow!
So much for the "ripping off Glasgow" argument.
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231. oldnat
Where DID we get the idea that we can or should solve the world's problems?
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233. cynicalHighlander
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=13415
Enough said. :(
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234. oldnat
What can I say other than "good luck"? *sigh*
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#192 Roll_on_2010
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/how-black-gold-was-hijacked-north-sea-oil-and-the-betrayal-of-scotland-518697.html
I reckon the link should be posted on every forum at every possible opportunity. Makes my blood boil. Not the Union and its continuation, but the DECEIT. And the complete lack of contrition from those involved.
Something along the lines of:
"They [Unionists] lied about our potential in the past. They are lying about it now. They will continue to lie without remorse to keep Scotland chained to this sinking Union"
On second thoughts maybe shouldn't post it too much. Not good for the blood pressure.
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JRMacClure
have you a bed to go to???
Neil-Small147 and to a lessor extent,oldnat your all turning
this site,coded in comment,more like a Boy Scouts code exercise,
to get a badge!!!
Address Brian's blether and use the phone!!!
Allow others to contribute!!!
Answer!!!
Response!!!
or just a boyz-zone!!!
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240. At 00:40am on 07 Nov 2009, spinspamspun:
Can someone please translate that into English.
231. At 11:54pm on 06 Nov 2009, oldnat wrote:
230. Neil_Small147
Your concern only makes sense if you are advocating that the UK invades Somalia to stop this kind of activity.
Are you advocating such an invasion?
How does showing concern for how a pseudo-nation state imply I want to see an invasion? I was making an observation.
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240. spinspamspun (or derek)
Oddly enough, anyone who does post doesn't stop anyone else from doing so.
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Plus, devolution in the first place was forced on the UK govt. by the UN, lest its own pitiful less than democratic democracy be shown to light and scrutinised.
Scotland-UN had shown that the population of a nation, Scotland, wished to be asked on devolution and Westminster had not asked - contravened the Charter when all those former Soviet countries were having to prove their democratic credentials to join the club (embarrassing).
Of course we know though it was all from Labour and Tony Blair's big hearts
- yeah, right.
Remember even before then the Scottish Constitutional Convention was never going to consider Independence. It's been a fight all the way for the powers we have now, albeit that in terms of self determination seen around the world they are ridiculous.
In the UK Parliament online library, Commons
(from Research Bill 98/4 "The Scotland Bill: tax varying powers" Jan '98)
- an amazing read, they are deciding what we can do...fascinating, take a look...
The Scottish referendum was held on 11 September 1997. Voters were asked whether they agreed that "there should be a Scottish Parliament"; and, if "a Scottish parliament should have taxvarying powers". The referendum result was seen as decisive: 74.3 per cent of the voters agreed that there should be a Scottish Parliament and 25.7 per cent disagreed on a 60.4 per cent turn out; 63.5 per cent voted in favour of tax varying powers and 36.5 per cent voted against.
Referring to tax variation of 3%.
It is important to emphasise that granting this supplementary power stops well short of devolving national taxation. Indeed the sums of money at stake are small when one considers that, at most, it represents about 3% of the Scottish Office's budget. This may be one reason why there has been relatively little discussion of this issue, beyond the principle that the Scottish Parliament should have some influence over income tax.
Yes, it is. It's aim is merely to state that with out giving any such power away.
Nevertheless it could be said to have an important symbolic function, underlining the shift in power from Westminster to Scotland.
Nope. If the Scottish Government uses this non-power, any way you look at it we lose. We lower tax - "proves" we just scrounge off England and the Barnett to pay our way. We raise taxes - it's expensive to live in Scotland as its too small a country to manage on its own.
It's beyond farce. These outcomes have been carefully considered before any such proposals were put forward, and during the drafting of such proposals. Carefully planned by Westminster.
When the White Paper was debated, Donald Dewar comments that it is right for the Scottish Parliament to face real financial choices???
Yet they're scared of fiscal autonomy.
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241. Neil_Small147
"How does showing concern for how a pseudo-nation state imply I want to see an invasion?"
I didn't seriously think you wanted to invade Somalia or Texas! However, I was pointing out the irrelevance of your concern in the context of the NATO invasion of Aghanistan.
It's only 100 years since this happened to women here who were fighting for the right to vote.
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/Whunger.jpg
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240. spinspamspun
Why should I go to bed? It's late afternoon where I am--and possibly where you are.
No code here. If you object to my posts, the simple solution is not to read them. My name is clearly visible at the top. The same with Oldnat or anyone else whose posts you don't want to read.
No one stops you from posting.
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JRMacClure,
thanks for your response,
I try to read and understand all your guys posts!!!
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The Angus Reid poll data is now available as a pdf.
As always, the tiny sub samples for Scotland aren’t based on our demographics.
If the memory of those polled as to how they voted in 2005 don’t match the actual results of the 2005 elections in the nations, then that would suggest a degree of skew.
In Scotland the actual 2005 %, the previous vote recalled by those polled and the AR poll results are
Party, Actual 2005, Memory 2005, poll
Lab, 39%, 40%, 32%
LD, 23%, 25%, 11%
SNP, 18%, 16%, 27%
Con, 16%, 15%, 21%
Other, 5%, 5%, 8%
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191. Roll_On_2010
and it will happen again, the Tories want to privatise the water, and the south needs the Hydro Electric .
A quick google about says that there are approx 24million households in England/Wales, and approx 3million in Scotland. At present the UK generates enough electricity but most of it is produced using gas or oil and then Nuclear.
The Glendoe scheme is just finished although they are dealing with a tunnel collapse, but it can generate enough for 25,000 houses, another one announced by SSE is estimated to when built produce 6 times as much, and that does not account for the many hydro schemes that have been generating since the fifties.
Scotland can be 100% carbon neutral for electricity, but I can guarantee that Westminster has already cast its eyes northwards to the energy cow that Scotland is, that is the real reason it wants it in the Union nothing else.
Right off to read more about micro Hydro Schemes, it helps living right next to Loch Ness :)
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Neil_Small147
Re Aberdeen City "charging for everything". You may know of course ARI no longer charges for parking ;-)
Was there with my fourth today at the eye clinic. His vision does not need correcting - he is for independence! (ha! 8-)
Of course the last Aberdeen administration left it in an almighty mess. Who were they - The Liberal Democrats. Oh dear. Cloud Cuckoo Land?
John Swinney though answered the inevitable criticism of the SNP (for cuts!) by their (then) Leader - yawns (remember, "more time with family"):
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/News/Releases/2008/04/04170719
As I understand the position, the previous administration within the Council was budgeting to fund expenditure which it could only afford by disposing of capital assets.
It is also concerning to note from the Council's own financial returns (Provisional Outturn/Budget Estimate) that the Council has spent almost £50 million more than they had budgeted to spend in the period 2002-07. This has resulted in the Council's general revenue fund balances being reduced from a surplus of £23.5 million on 1st April 2003 to a deficit of £4.4 million on 1st April 2007. This confirms that the previous administrations have indeed been spending much more in-year than was budgeted for and that is a situation that is clearly not sustainable.
All those people paying those untypically high Ab City council tax rates (not fine, I've done it myself...), what a b@lls up.
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Brian Taylor
BBC man with the red braces!!!
6 days to go to the Glasgow NE election.
When are the punters going to be able a log a comment???
If I have missed it,please advise!!!
People want to, but BBC Scot refuse to allow !!!
WHY ???
02.10 and I've just listened to Lord George "sucks" on the
Parliment Channel.
How can we respond to this???
Lord George down South,claiming expenses???
What is this Labour Peer about???
Brian, BBC Political MAN,how can I make a comment this week /next week???
After Thursday,the question will still be???
How do punters get access/connection to current political debate???
BBC you can Email me,and tell me what's to happen!!!
edfairfield@live.co.uk
Look forward to your response.
Brian Taylor.An answer please!!! [Personal details removed by Moderator]
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# 213 Neil_Small147
I never considered the original invasion of Afghanistan to be "illegal"
I'm not too sure that I can agree with that statement. We originally went into Afghanistan to take on the people who attacked the USA in 9/11. I'm still not convinced that this actually happened in the way that we are being told. I know that some of you on here think that I am a conspiracist, you have the right to think that, but stay with me a moment and just have a look at some of the evidence. I may be adding 2 and 2 together and coming up with 5, but I don't believe I am. The problem that we have is that people just don't want to believe that their, or any other government could do such a thing to their own people. Well, it isn't that hard to take in. We had a discussion a short time ago about the 8 million deaths in world war one, but what is also forgetten is that over 46 million people were invalided through arnaments or disease. So we have the leaders of the world, in that time, accepting losses of 54 million of their citizens to futher the aims of the national policy of the countries involved. It still hasn't changed. We know now that the second Iraq war was all about oil. Yet at the time we were told it was all about WMDs. How many brave soldiers died, on both sides, how many civilians died and were injured? The fact of the matter is that our leaders care nothing about the citizens that they pretend to represent because they are more interested in playing at 'big boy' games called world politics. It was the same for the Vietnam war. How come the USA, the biggest and most powerful state in the world, at that time, couldn't defeat a small country on the edge of the world. Remember the excuse that the Usa gave to send its troops over there to fight? It was to stop the domino effect of communist control in that part of the world. Remember that the USA had fought in the second world war on two fronts and succeeded in helping to destroy two highly mechanised military countries and yet couldn't defeat a third world nation? The truth is that it siuted the USA, at that time, to subsidise it military industries which can only be done by war.
So let's look at the evidence of 9/11. Watch this and then tell me that this was a jet aircraft which flew into the pentagon. If this was not as the USA said it was then what was it? How come there is never a mention of the people who lost their lives in the jets which flew into the Twin Towers? Can anyone point to me where the list of all those that died in the planes which hit the Twin Towers are? We always hear about the plane that was brought down by it's passengers just outside of Washington but never, about the other planes. Why is that? Then there is the problem of the other building that collapsed (?) beside the Twin Towers; it wasn't hit so why did that collapse? Why was its collapse mentioned on TV by a British reporter when the building was still standing behind her.
So, what has all of this got to do with Scottish politics? Because our troops are over in Afghanistan getting killed and wounded for something that did not happen in the way in which we were told it had happened; we were lied to from the beginning and are still being lied to now. This is not about terrorists, this is about making money in the arnaments industries and keeping certain middle eastern states in line with western policies.
So, let's get out of this Union that is not helping us and doesn't care about us.
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Gedguy2:
The problem with your type of conspiracy is that we need a confession from a top official to actually back it up, either that or you will end up going nowhere.
Why have we done the things we have? Only the elite can tell you why they decided these things.
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# 252 Thomas_Porter
The truth is out there. You just have to brush aside the propaganda and the truth will reveal itself. You don't need people, at the top, to tell you that we are being lied to by the UK government concerning Scotland's ability to look after itself. So why do you need people at the top to tell you what you already know to be true?
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# 252 Thomas_Porter
Sorry, I pressed the wrong button. I should have added:
It was the same in WWII, the UK declared war on Germany, not the other way around. The Germans did not want to fight with France or the UK; they wanted to move Eastwards. We declared war on them because, so we were told, because they invaded Poland and we had a treaty with them that we would come to their aid if they were attacked. If that was the case then why did we not declare war on the USSR, as they invaded Poland too? The real reason that we declared war on Germany was because we were concerned about Germany getting an empire. That was the real reason.
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#222.
Politicians never learn from history:
On the 6th of January, 1842, the Caboul forces commenced their retreat through the dismal pass, destined to be their grave. On the third day they were attacked by the mountaineers from all points, and a fearful slaughter ensued…
The troops kept on, and awful scenes ensued. Without food, mangled and cut to pieces, each one caring only for himself, all subordination had fled; and the soldiers of the forty-fourth English regiment are reported to have knocked down their officers with the butts of their muskets.
On the 13th of January, just seven days after the retreat commenced, one man, bloody and torn, mounted on a miserable pony, and pursued by horsemen, was seen riding furiously across the plains to Jellalabad. That was Dr. Brydon, the sole person to tell the tale of the passage of Khourd Caboul.
More than 16,000 people had set out on the retreat from Kabul, and in the end only one man, Dr. William Brydon, a British Army surgeon, had made it alive to Jalalabad. The garrison there lit signal fires and sounded bugles to guide other British survivors to safety, but after several days they realized that Brydon would be the only one. It was believed the Afghans let him live so he could tell the grisly story.
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Gedguy2:
#253.
"The truth is out there. You just have to brush aside the propaganda and the truth will reveal itself."
I disagree. You can't read the minds of man, either can I. How can we decide the real intentions of the world elite?
"You don't need people, at the top, to tell you that we are being lied to by the UK government concerning Scotland's ability to look after itself. So why do you need people at the top to tell you what you already know to be true?"
You appear to be forgetting the McCrome Report. The beginning of a real economic argument for independence.
It's not that I need top officials to come clean. However I do not believe it to be suitable to create my own theory of the real intentions why we invaded Iraq, for example. A conspiracy should question the official version but it oversteps it's limits by also claiming the real intentions on events.
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Gedguy2:
#254.
"Sorry, I pressed the wrong button. I should have added:
It was the same in WWII, the UK declared war on Germany, not the other way around. The Germans did not want to fight with France or the UK; they wanted to move Eastwards. We declared war on them because, so we were told, because they invaded Poland and we had a treaty with them that we would come to their aid if they were attacked. If that was the case then why did we not declare war on the USSR, as they invaded Poland too? The real reason that we declared war on Germany was because we were concerned about Germany getting an empire. That was the real reason."
I don't disagree either. I found it difficult to accept the line, 'we're fighting for democracy and against fascism'. Despite Great Britain aka the British Empire oppressing millions of people at the same time...
Adolf Hitler's body was never recovered too. Now, there is a good conspiracy for you.
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# 256 Thomas_Porter
How can we decide the real intentions of the world elite?
That is not a difficult one to know; it is about world power and always has been. Read any part of world history and you will discover that it all about power. Such is the sin of mankind.
A conspiracy should question the official version but it oversteps it's limits by also claiming the real intentions on events.
If you remember we went into the second Gulf war because of the Iraqis ability to attack us with WMDs and their ability to do so in '20 minutes'. Are you still standing by that lie? Where are the WMDs that would affect us in '20 minutes'? I don't need the elite to tell me that we, at the bottom of the pile, are being lied to. The first casuality of any war is the truth.
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# 255 Donald Macdonald
Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past. However, isn't it strange that Afghanistan was invaded, then Iraq? Both countries border a nation that was, and still is, hostile to the policies of the USA. That same country has huge reserves of oil and gas. The term 'pincer movement' comes to mind. Let's hope that Obama doesn't have the same hostile intentions as Bush jnr.
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# 257 Thomas_Porter
Adolf Hitler's body was never recovered too. Now, there is a good conspiracy for you.
Obviously you haven't kept up with the news that Hitler's body was recovered by the USSR and taken to Moscow.
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Gedguy2:
#258.
"That is not a difficult one to know; it is about world power and always has been. Read any part of world history and you will discover that it all about power. Such is the sin of mankind."
But why would a person or group chase for more power (without a reason to use it)? The real intentions will never, ever be known. You would never be able to show hard evidence too.
"If you remember we went into the second Gulf war because of the Iraqis ability to attack us with WMDs and their ability to do so in '20 minutes'. Are you still standing by that lie? Where are the WMDs that would affect us in '20 minutes'? I don't need the elite to tell me that we, at the bottom of the pile, are being lied to. The first casuality of any war is the truth."
Like I said, a conspiracy should question the official events. However I do not believe it to be suitable for the person questioning the official line to also explain why, for example we invaded Iraq. Personally, it has nothing to do with oil. Saddam was surrounded by enemies and used to be friends to the West, so we could have got to the oil through Saddam by beefing up their defences in return for energy. There is a far large game being played.
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Gedguy2:
#260.
"Obviously you haven't kept up with the news that Hitler's body was recovered by the USSR and taken to Moscow."
The latest news is that the skull was actually proven to be a womans.
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# 261 Thomas_Porter
Personally, it has nothing to do with oil
So why did Saddam invade Kuwait if not to control oil? I suppose the USA had no concern that a regime that was potentially dangerous to the USA's global ambitions of energy control would stand by and watch Saddam snap up Saudia Arabian oil too? You may have forgotten Saddam's war against Iran and Saddam's aim of controlling their oil reserves. It may be more beneficial if you got up to speen on global politics and role that the arnaments industry has in lobbying (controlling) for sales; especially in the USA.
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All three of the pundits on Radio Scotland this morning are predicting a Labour win in Glasgow North East. (Angus MacLeod (The Times) thought by about 1500, Magnus Garden (The Record) wouldn't give a margin and Peter Lynch (Stirling University) 1000. They seemed to agree that the issue of where the David Kerr was born had played badly for the SNP but that Labour themselves were only one gaffe away from a disaster. Angus MacLeod said some are wondering if the turnout might not reach 35% which is one thing that's really worrying Labour.
I'm wondering if the announcement this morning that "Direct train services between Glasgow and London on the troubled East Coast Main Line are to be axed under a major recasting of the route’s timetable being discussed by the Government and rail industry.." might just be that gaffe!
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Gedguy2:
#263.
"So why did Saddam invade Kuwait if not to control oil? I suppose the USA had no concern that a regime that was potentially dangerous to the USA's global ambitions of energy control would stand by and watch Saddam snap up Saudia Arabian oil too? You may have forgotten Saddam's war against Iran and Saddam's aim of controlling their oil reserves. It may be more beneficial if you got up to speen on global politics and role that the arnaments industry has in lobbying (controlling) for sales; especially in the USA."
Please do not copy and paste a small part of my comments and proceed to ask questions which I actually answered in the comment before, which you may have noticed if you copied the whole comment ;-)
The Iraq war, I believe was not about oil. The Gulf wars are a different story. Saddam and Iraq used to be allies of the West, so I have no reason to believe that the West could not have offered defence in return for energy if we negociated enough. Saddam, before his hanging, claimed he was worried about Iran learning how weak Iraq became in the recent years while they got rid of their chemical weapons.
The US defence industry may have wanted to sell their weapons but even if it was the reason for going into Iraq it does not suggest that we went in there for oil and oil alone. Perhaps the oil was a bonus? Besides China is actually the first country to begin drilling the oil feilds, so I don't understand why that is if we fought a war for the oil in the first place.
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251. At 09:03am on 07 Nov 2009, gedguy2:
Sorry, but your theory is just that.
I used to be involved in gathering data for the recovery of debris from aircraft accidents.
Aircraft are surprisingly fragile. Think of a drinks can under pressure. You can stick a screwdriver through an aircraft panel. Most of the weight is in the engines. When an aircraft crashes it simple crumbles, and pre-stressed concrete is very good at resisting blast. To really demolish a concrete structure you need to use penetration devices.
Do you seriously think that the US Government would allow three aircraft to be hijacked, knowing two were destined for the WTC, and then somehow use a remote controlled aircraft to plough into the Pentagon? If this was the case, then how did they know the hijackers would target the WTC and not another building?
We know what caused the attacks, but to have such a scenario as you are hinting at would involve many people. Too many to keep it secret.
As to the 2nd Iraq war, Bush Junior went for Saddam because his father screwed up. During the First Gulf War there was the means and more importantly the diplomatic agreements to invade Iraq and capture Saddam.
And yes I agree he also wanted the oil.
Either that or he got his spelling wrong........
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Brian Taylor's 'Big Debate' form yesterday.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00nmyt7
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# 266 Neil_Small147
So what happened to all the fuel on board the plane(?) that struck the Pentagon? It was meant to be full of fuel for its journey. Why is there no scorch marks on the building where the wings would have hit? Why is the grass still green which would have been burned from the inferno caused by the ignited fuel? Why, in the link that I posted, did the paper in the building not ignite? Are you seriously saying that it was a passenger jet aircraft that struck the Pentagon as the US government is saying? Put aside the conspiracy theory and just look at the facts. Where is all the luggage and seats and all the other debris that should have been there? Where is the list of the passengers and flight crew so that we can check on this infromation? Forget the conspiracy theory bit, just look at the facts and not at what they are telling you.
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# 266 Neil_Small147
During the First Gulf War there was the means and more importantly the diplomatic agreements to invade Iraq and capture Saddam.
The UN only agreed on the removal of Iraq from Kuwait. There was no UN mandate to remove Saddam.
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# 266 Neil_Small147
When an aircraft crashes it simple crumbles, and pre-stressed concrete is very good at resisting blast. To really demolish a concrete structure you need to use penetration devices.
So why did the Twin Towers fall down? But, more importantly why did the other building fall down which wasn't struck?
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Gedguy2:
#270.
"So why did the Twin Towers fall down? But, more importantly why did the other building fall down which wasn't struck?"
I can explain how the Twin Towers collapsed, plus the other building.
http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/
The above link actually explains it fairly well.
However I have no evidence to prove who is responsible for the attacks.
Very few people benefited from the Sept 11 attacks.
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268. At 11:19am on 07 Nov 2009, gedguy2 wrote:
A plane which has full fuel tanks simply burns. It is the vapour that is highly explosive. In 1989 a Tornado aircraft crashed near Abingdon in Oxfordshire shortly after takeoff due to a birdstrike. The aircraft was fully fuelled and simply burned.
The year before a Phantom jet crashed practicising for the the air display. It crashed at the bottom of the loop and exploded as there was only minimal fuel in the aircraft and the vapour caused the explosion.
The damage caused by the phantom jet and explosive force was far greater than for the Tornado.
The reason the towers fell was due to the steel structure melting caused by the high temperatures caused by aviation fuel. The covering used on the WTC towers were insufficient to protect from heat. Once the steel softens it loses its strength. You had two towers falling which caused sufficient seismic force to upset the foundations of the other building.
Skycrapers are like every other building. They are trying to fall down. All that needs to happen is a weakening of a lower structure. Once that fails the upper structure falls down and gains momentum. Basic physics.
Every time the US is involved, all we get are conspiracy theories. What's next? The bombings in London and attempted attack in Glasgow all setups as well?
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Neil_Small147:
Sept 11 is not the first questionable event in US history. There are several, which I believe the link to the video I posted explains.
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Neil_Small147:
"Every time the US is involved, all we get are conspiracy theories. What's next? The bombings in London and attempted attack in Glasgow all setups as well?"
This part shows that you don't understand the purpose and aims of the political elite and their tactics (if you believe the conspiricies)
If the USA did create an enemy i.e. war on terror and gave others a cause to fight back (we invade muslim countries)...
You'll eventually have others fighting back and we will always brand them muslim extremists and link them to other terror groups.
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Glasgow 'axed' from train route ........
It seems the East Coast line once taken over by the Govt will no longer run services all the way to Glasgow.
Did Brown know about this when he was campaigning in Glasgow NE and complaining bitterly about the SNP decision to scrap GARL?
The answer is of course that he almost certainly did but didn't want it announced until he was out of the way.
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How bizarre:
Britain admits paying thousands for advice from Libya on airline security.
Victims of the Lockerbie bombing have criticised the Government for paying for tens of thousands of pounds-worth of advice from Libya on airline safety.
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275. At 12:55pm on 07 Nov 2009, Wee-Scamp:
Looks like they are going back about 20 years. I used to travel up from England on the East Coast line and it usually meant a change at Edinburgh.
GNER/National Express trains have always been awful on that line in the past few years anyway. Virgin got smart with the Pendelinos, even if the toilets sometimes leak!
Persoanally I don't think the trains should ever have been privatised anyway. It costs the taxpayer more than under BR.
274. At 12:24pm on 07 Nov 2009, Thomas_Porter:
Why would the USA decide to cause a war on terror? Wars these days are over resources. If the USA wanted, it could decimate the infrastructure of most countries. You don't need to invade, just destroy essential services and destablise a government.
But without trying to sound apologetic for the USA and UK policies in the past, perhaps you could comment on Russia/USSR, China, India, North Korea, France (ie Greenpeace ship).......
Few countries in this world are perfect.
About time we started leading by example.
Re your video link, go and read David Icke's website. Plenty more conspiracy theories there.......
http://www.davidicke.com/index.php/
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#275 Wee-Scamp
Aye Wee-Scamp:
Glasgow to London East Coast trains to be axed.
The changes on the arterial route, one of two connecting Scotland to England, will see trains that currently run from King’s Cross up the east coast to Glasgow stop at Edinburgh from December 2010.
I Reckon NuLabour North Branch will try to pin that on the SNP as well. I wonder if the Grey man will raise it at the next FMQ’s.
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Gordon Brown pledges jobs for all.
He told students in Glasgow that he wanted to see Britain's economy "quickly" return to high employment. The declaration came when the Prime Minister, accompanied by Scottish Secretary Jim Murphy, toured Langside College of Further Education. The college has recently completed the first £18 million phase of a £36 million redevelopment.
Education is a devolved responsibility in Scotland, and Mr Brown's speech made no mention of the minority SNP administration in Edinburgh.
Yep another demonstration of the SNP Government ‘ripping of Glasgow’.
Crash Gordon said “that he wanted to see Britain's economy "quickly" return to high employment”, but forgot to add - It is an essential, after all how else will we pay off the massive debt binge that I have created?
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#264 raisethegame
"All three of the pundits on Radio Scotland this morning are predicting a Labour win in Glasgow North East ... but ... Labour themselves were only one gaffe away from a disaster"
Thanks for the reminder re Newsweek Scotland, now available here. The by-election bit, with McLeod, Gardham & Lynch pontificating, same as last week, starts just over 40m in and goes on for about 6m. Certainly worth a listen if not exactly balanced or impartial.
"I'm wondering if the announcement this morning that "Direct train services between Glasgow and London on the troubled East Coast Main Line are to be axed ...might just be that gaffe!"
Seems that the glencambly BBC thinks it's important enough to make Glasgow 'axed' from train route top story on this website's main Scotland page but somehow regards it as apolitical by ignoring it on the Scotland politics page in favour of a puff for Duff Gordon's latest plea to the banks and still featuring yesterday's Brown joins by-election campaign subtitled "Gordon Brown describes the Scottish government's decision to ditch the Glasgow Airport Rail Link project as `short-sighted´."
There's a shock!
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Neil_Small147:
#277.
"Why would the USA decide to cause a war on terror? Wars these days are over resources. If the USA wanted, it could decimate the infrastructure of most countries. You don't need to invade, just destroy essential services and destablise a government."
I shall attempt to explain in detail. The USA may have started the 'war on terror' and allowed September 11th to happen in order to control public opinion and pass laws against basic rights.
The war on Terror may not have existed untill after many months it was officially declared. The Americans have created a common enemy and Islam has been manipulated in order to encourage individuals to fight back.
If you actually watched the video you'd have noticed that the Vietnam war started because of an attack on a US ship, which later was shown to never have happened, so why did the American Government lie in order to start a war?
There are reasonable questions concerning Sept 11th. For example, the video also points out that the support beams have actually been cut beforehand, quite strange is it not?
"But without trying to sound apologetic for the USA and UK policies in the past, perhaps you could comment on Russia/USSR, China, India, North Korea, France (ie Greenpeace ship)......."
Yes.. let's look at Russia and China for example. The Americans declared war on terror and now Russia and China are crushing opposition in seperatist regions, without question.
The Americans have created an enemy and encouraged individuals to take sides and gave both sides a reason to fight.
"Re your video link, go and read David Icke's website. Plenty more conspiracy theories there......."
Yes, a conspiracy is suppose to question the official line. I have asked several questions already, why were support beams cut in the Twin Towers? Explain why the 3rd building collapsed despite being untouched by the planes and also explain why it was presented on Americans news channels as already collapsed despite the image on the background showing the building intact?
I can't give an answer to these strange circumstances. However I will expect that you can't either; so will you follow the official line or look for possible answers and other strange circumstances?
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Online Ed Here
There are unanswered questions over 9/11 and indeed 7/7 - both events coicidently happened on days when mock drills were taking place covering similar scenarios - in the case of 7/7 I believe that the stations hit were exactly the same stations as were used in the drills.
However, people mightn't be aware of the name Barry Jennings, a key 9/11 witness into the events surrounding building 7 and a significant witness given his status.
Jennings died suddenly last year aged 53 two days before the report into that same building was released. The cause of death as far as I know has yet to be made public.
You can see Barry Jennings giving an extraordinary interview one year before his death by clicking here.
The clip beneath the Jennings interview is a guy called Alex Jones, a dedicated activist against US Government corruptions.
Jones, in the months before the 9/11 attacks basically broadcast more or less what was going to happen and stated clearly that in his opinion if/when it happened then he would hold the US Government responsible.
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# 272 Neil_Small147
Let me get you right in what you are saying. Are you saying that a passenger jet crashes into a building, which is painted white, and that the fireball which results will not even singe the paint on the building walls or on the windows? What sort of aircraft crash investigator were you? I was in the fire service for years. Leaving aside that there are no marks on the building where the plane's wings hit and where the tons of heavy engines crashed into, but just the fact that hundreds of litres of burning kerosene smashed into the building's walls without even a scorch mark is bordering on disbelief. I know that it is not the kerosene that burns but the vapour. However, that still does nothing to detract from physics which will have those vapours at high temperatures that will have radiated onto the building's walls and the paint work of the windows. I don't know how many fires you have attended but I have been at plenty of them and seen the effects of heat on different types of materials.
As to the fallacy that the steel structure melted due to the heat from the burning fuel, that same fuel that you say just floated away without leaving a scorch mark on the walls of the Pentagon, maybe you can direct me to any site where a modern steel structure, built properly, has collapsed through fire. There has never been such a building that has collapsed because of fire. If I remember right there was a high rise building in South America where it had been burning for tens of hours and still stood! As to the seismic effects of the Twin Towers falling causing the other building to collapse is just fantasy. Show me any engineer who would agree with you. The fact is that the other building was demolished; it didn't fall down. Speaking of falling down, why did the Twin Towers collapse as if it was demolished by experts? Surely, according to your theory, it would topple over and fall onto the buildings below it. However, neither of them did that. They all fell(?) as if demolished by professionals.
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# 282 U14094468
I had seen this but I didn't know that the guy had died suddenly. How convenient.
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# 280 Brownedov
I have said before that the UK government is dealing in 'black propaganda/ops agianst Scotland. I have also said that the UK government, if it believes that it may lose Scotland, will do all in its power to wreck our infrastructure and economy before they let us go. Just have a good look what has happened since the SNP took power in Holyrood.
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Re the East Coast rail route, it would be hard to improve on J A MacN's commentary on the Herald article: It's only bad if someone else does it, Part 5,904
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I am quite suprised that Gordon Brown is claiming that the SNP Gov has been short-sighted with their attempt to ditch the rail link, so why doesn't Gordon Brown reverse the cuts in order to ensure Scotland receives the investment that she deserves?
Of all people I expected Gordon Brown to be the last person to spin Labour failings and cuts and pin it on the SNP Gov.
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Online Ed Here
Wow, right out of the blue...
I've been quietly monitoring the odds for the Glasgow NE by-election this past week or so, Labour had moved from 2/5 into 8/13.
However, the odds on Labour have just shifted dramatically to 1/3 within the last hour.
Someone has placed a very significant bet on Labour !!
The last time I saw such dramatic odds reversal was the Glasgow East by-election hours before Curran announced her camdidacy and someone placed one thousand pounds on Labour - headlines followed the next day.
If there are headlines in the papers tomorrow then the odds have almost certainly been manipulated.
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#285 gedguy2
"I have also said that the UK government, if it believes that it may lose Scotland, will do all in its power to wreck our infrastructure and economy before they let us go."
A fair point, but I suspect that spectacular incompetence and asymmetric devolution each have more than a bit part to play here. The Department for Transport [or Department of Transport as the BBC call it] is one of the many Westmidden departments which has UK responsibility for some things and English responsibility for everything. My own guess would be that from London they see everything North of Newcastle as a branch line serving Berwick and will be surprised that anybody might care about what goes on beyond.
So long as such attitudes and illogical bailliwicks survive, the prospect of the UK holding together in any form diminishes daily.
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#289 - "So long as such attitudes and illogical bailliwicks survive, the prospect of the UK holding together in any form diminishes daily".
Excellent news BD!
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PS to my #157 of yesterday afternoon
Interesting to see the Scotsman taking the Welsh referendum story further with their Double standards row as Cameron says 'yes' to Welsh referendum – but 'no' to Scots one, saying: "A Conservative spokesman said if the Scottish Parliament did support a referendum, it would not be obstructed by a Westminster government led by Mr Cameron."
That does seem to bear out Macwhirter's hunch that There will be a referendum on independence - in 2012.
As one of the more printable comments on the Scotsman article puts it, "well done to the Hootsman for covering this, just shows that even they can't stand the Tories". I cannot pretend to understand why the unionist parties are so intent on delaying a referendum when it is so clear that the longer one is delayed the more likely it will succeed when it happens.
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#250 SSS - Keep calm mate! Ranting at Brian will do no good - he never reads this stuff otherwise he may have taken some steps to modify his output. Mind you, young Glen Campbell may read or get fed back stuff from here. I bet the mods hoot every time the word Glencambly is used and I bet they've told him about it! I know it's frustrating trying to join in but I always enjoy the mental ping pong that goes on and some of the cracking answers that appear. It's always facinating how quickly people go off topic - eg. Adolph Hitler Vs Cost reduction - whenever Brian hits a new post. So pick your moment and fire something in. Doesn't mean people will respond but you'll have said your bit.
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291. Brownedov
Good lord. I believe Cameron may have even manage to upset The Scotsman, which is hard to do. This quote is something you would NEVER normally expect to find there in their anti-independence rag:
SNP Western Isles MSP Alasdair Allan said: "I would like to say I am shocked at the Tories' consistent refusal to allow the people of Scotland a say on their future, but they have never cared for Scotland and most likely never will – voters know this and have shown that at the ballot box.
"This is indeed encouraging for the people of Wales. I only wish that the Tories would show the same trust and respect to Scotland."
Wow. *ahem* My reaction tends to involve words that probably would get this post moderated.
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# 292 Robabody
It's always facinating how quickly people go off topic
This may be a political blog but as Brian headed this a 'Blether' then I suppose we will have to indulge. ;-)
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Article exploding the myth ‘SNP Ripping of Glasgow’:
£840m blueprint for health
STATISTICS
1 - The area of the development will be equivalent in size to 11 football pitches.
2 - There will be 1,109 beds in the adult hospital, with most patients in their own single, en-suite room with a view.
3 - The new children's hospital will have 256 beds over five floors, with overnight accommodation for a parent or guardian at every bedside, except in the intensive care unit.
4 - There will be a total of around 2,000 beds, including new adult and children's hospitals, together with maternity beds, neurosciences unit beds and the Langlands building, which will provide care for older patients.
The New South Glasgow Hospital Campus
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263. gedguy2
It was about 75% about oil. The rest was about the profits that were to be made. The entire administration was run by oilmen and you bet profit was a motive at Halliburton, Cheney's company. They made a bloody killing.
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# 291 Brownedov
I'm not too sure that Iain Macwhirter is correct in that the Nats might be willing to wait a couple of generations for independence. I can't wait that long unless some scientist is going to come up with the elixir of life.
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For all the doubter about the US(CIA) /
Just after 6 minutes, Quote from Benezir Bhutto (on the David Frost Show on the BBC, 1 month before her execution); "Omar Shaekh the man who murdered Osama Bin Laden"
Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIO8B6fpFSQ
Who is Omar Sheikh??? Well, he was an ISI agent working under General Mahmoud Ahmed and with the CIA.
The other place I discovered about Omar Sheikh (just for clarification!)was in the Documentary '911 press for truth', which was produced by the families of 9/11 victims as a response to a lack of obvious US government assistance in getting to the truth of their loved ones deaths.
At 6 mins 10 seconds in the following video, you can see that Omar Saeed Sheikh was key in wiring $100,000 to the alledged lead hijacker on 9/11; Mohammed Atta.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vO3939U4dI&feature=related
It is fairly easy to 'join the dots' if you have the will to do so, and there is so much we are not made aware of that the only solution is to wake up and realise this.
The middle east is all about oil... cos it is getting rarer by the minute!!!
The levels of corruption in the world far exceed expenses for Duck Houses, it simply annoys me that the vast majority of people are still sleepwalking through life and are content to do so in their illusion of their supposedly perfect life.
WEll, Peak oil is gonna be a wake up call for those folk. However, probably by then it will be too late.
Peak Oil Source; http://www.appgopo.org.uk/
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#293 JRMacClure
"This quote is something you would NEVER normally expect to find there in their anti-independence rag"
Quite so. Such reporting would, of course, be the norm on this website if it ever remembered what the BBC Charter says about impartiality. To find a very minor outbreak of it in the Scotsman but nary a word on the "News" or "Politics" pages here speaks volumes.
"My reaction tends to involve words that probably would get this post moderated."
Snap.
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# 296 JRMacClure
I am sure that you are nearly 100% correct in your summing up. I would also offer to you the amount of money made by the industries that depend on the USA spending your tax dollars on the military would have been rubbing their hands. I suppose the makers of the Abraham tanks will be thinking about how to make their tanks less effective. I can't remember how many Abrhams were destroyed but you can bet it was no where near what the Iraqis lost. ;-)
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258. gedguy2
"If you remember we went into the second Gulf war because of the Iraqis ability to attack us with WMDs and their ability to do so in '20 minutes'. Are you still standing by that lie? Where are the WMDs that would affect us in '20 minutes'? I don't need the elite to tell me that we, at the bottom of the pile, are being lied to. The first casuality of any war is the truth."
While I am skeptical (only skeptical mind you, not saying that it's not very possible) that the US government was actually behind the 9/11 accacks, they may very well have chosen to let it go forward when it could have been stopped. And they ABSOLUTELY used it to what the BUSH administration considered their best advantage.
In large part, what it allowed them to do was declare war on their own people -- or the democratic liberties of their own people. Democracy came within an inch of ceasing to exist in the US.
Yes, as I said in another post the invasions and wars allowed them to control oil and, even more important, make HUGE profits (war profiteering gone absolutely mad) for their own companies.
But I believe that the real aim was a total destruction of the US constitution and an end to civil rights. Open war was declared on the constituion and the people who violated the public trust have STILL not been brought to justice which has destroyed MY trust in our new US administration. (Let me mention that in the US it would be political suicide for a politician to express the opinion that a constitutional matter is minor and doesn't matter. I STILL don't understand why the people of Scotland put up with it)
There have been cries all over this country to bring these criminals to justice which have been ignored. We're willing (unfortunately) for our politicians to be war profiteers but NOT to destroy our own freedoms.
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#297 gedguy2
"I can't wait that long unless some scientist is going to come up with the elixir of life."
The feeling's mutual. I had no intention of suggesting that Macwhirter is right in every particular, but I do agree with him that the unionist parties are painting themselves into a corner where they will find it exceptionally difficult to avoid a referendum after the 2011 SP elections.
IMO, Cameron & Co. added a few brushstrokes to that picture yesterday in their attempt to improve Tory prospects in Wales, where, let's face it, their prospects at the general election are rather brighter than in Scotland.
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#295 Roll_on_2010
This is big news and destroys Labour's myth re SNP being anti-Glasgow. Would like to hear a response from Purcell or Bain. BTW this story made onto page 38 of the Daily Record.
Freedom
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"Direct train services between Glasgow and London on the troubled East Coast Main Line are to be axed under a major recasting of the route’s timetable being discussed by the Government and rail industry, The Herald can reveal."
WHAT will it take to wake up the people of Glasgow?
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The Grey man strikes again:
'No sinister SNP agenda behind £434k party and referendum launch on same day'
The Labour leader, Iain Gray, described the event as "an insult to ordinary families who are worried about their jobs".
He said: "We are in a recession and the Scottish Government should be working flat-out on economic recovery, not on what is basically a party political stunt for the SNP."
Article rebuffing the Grey mans insults about St Andrews day celebrations:
Party Poopers.
We really are entering dangerous terrain when a party to celebrate the Homecoming festivities on Scotland's patron saint's day is deemed an "insult" and "a party political stunt".
The oddness of Iain Gray's petulant claims is compounded when you learn that Homecoming was Labour's idea in the first place!
I think Wee Eck was correct at a recent FMQ’s when he said:
I look forward to debating every Thursday with Iain Gray in this Parliament as I have debated with the two previous incumbents of his office. I am on my third Labour leader and the way Iain Gray is going I might soon be on my fourth.
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Let me mention that I still keep a passport in my purse, have a home elsewhere and am prepared to leave this country and have been since shortly after 9/11. I am still not absolutely sure that the Constitution and constitutional liberties will survive. That much damage was done.
It is hard to explain to people who are willing to live without a written constitution and who allow politicians to natter on about how constitutional status is "minor" and "no one cares" how much an attack on our Constitution is an attack on the very soul (a bit soiled but our still own) of the US. This is a betrayal this beyond description. George Bush should be in prison and Cheney should never see the light of day again. I can't begin to convey it.
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297. gedguy2
MacWhirter is reasonable FOR A UNIONIST.
He is fond of pretending that only a third or so of Scots say that they would definitely vote for independence that that means that two-thirds are unionists.
A slight error in both math and logic.
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#296 JRMacClure
263. gedguy2
It was about 75% about oil. The rest was about the profits that were to be made. The entire administration was run by oilmen and you bet profit was a motive at Halliburton, Cheney's company. They made a bloody killing.
I would agree with you. The following article is dated January 2002, just over a year before the illegal invasion of Iraq:
A Creeping Collapse in Credibility at the White House
There is blood on the hands of the political elite from both sides of the pond.
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#304 JRMacClure, if anyone on this blog should read and understand my #298 and watch '9/11 press for truth' on youtube (its in about 9 or 10 parts) it is you. The USA is your country after all... and they had loads to do with 9/11!!!
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Let me express what most of you here know but what most unionists prefer to pretend is not the case:
The reason between 60 and 70 percent of Scots say that they want a referendum is because although some of that number are not CONVINCED that they want to leave the union, they want to CONSIDER it and decide for themselves.
Between 60 and 70% of Scots are NOT unionists. Only a third of Scots would never consider voting to leave the union and are, therefore, unionists.
This is an uncomfortable fact for unionists to face and they very much like to pretend that the "undecideds" either don't count or are really unionists who just kind of forgot to tell the pollsters that.
Sorry to mention the obvious--but it is rarely said out loud.
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# 301 JRMacClure
We know that Osama bin Laden was being funded by the CIA during the Russian invasion of Afghanistan. Therefore he had contacts with a USA organisation that has been using policies that were anti-democratic to the USA for decades. The Iran-Contra incident springs to mind. We know that the CIA have been using illegal drugs to fund many of their undercover work because asking Congress for that sort of money would have involved exposing the work that they actually do. Therefore I would offer that it is quite possible that there was a connection in the 9/11 tragedy between members of the USA government and Osamba bin Laden, however, the object that struck the Pentagon was not a 747, it was more like a cruise missile.
As to the constitution I can only agree with you and hope that the people of the USA turn back this assualt on their democratic rights.
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We'll have Dean complaining about the glencambly BBC next!
This website's lead story is currently G20 vows to spur fragile growth, a routine puff for Duff Gordon and Capn. Darling, with "The BBC's Joe Lynam, in Saint Andrews, says Mr Brown's calling for an insurance levy or transaction tax took many delegates by surprise".
OTOH, Sky News cuts to the chase with G20: Geithner Rejects Brown 'Bank Tax' Plan.
Wonder who will be playing catch-up tomorrow?
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Did someone actually post a link to the Herald story on the Glasgow trains?
Labour Rips Off Glasgow
The First Minister said: “This secret plan to slash one of Glasgow’s main connections to London, a connection that is vital for business, for tourism and for employment, is a clear sign that Labour continue to take Glasgow and Glasgow voters for granted.
“It is the deceit at the heart of their campaign.”
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311. gedguy2
Remember that I said it was possible. All that you say about the CIA (one of the world's most deeply corrupt and anti-democratic organizations) is quite correct. And I will agree that it is POSSIBLE that they were behind it.
As with Lockerbie, because so much of the evidence was tampered with, it is very difficult to be sure exactly what happened. At the least, I strongly suspect it was ALLOWED to happen. Whether they actively took part, I've doubted but... It is possible. It is indeed possible.
I think at least in part I just hope that even the basically evil CIA wouldn't go that far.
But the CIA would be served by an end to the Constitution which they look upon as nothing more than an inconvenience they would like to get rid of. The attacks of 9/11 gave them a weapon to use against the Constitution.
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WHY for heaven's sake did the BBC BREAK their blogs?
AND WHY DON'T THEY FIX THEM????!!!
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And now there's this..
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/north_east/8348370.stm
You really couldn't make it up.
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#315 JRMacClure
WHY for heaven's sake did the BBC BREAK their blogs?
AND WHY DON'T THEY FIX THEM????!!!
I don’t know how true it is but one of commenter’s on the Betsan Powys (BBC Welsh blog) puts it down to a blog attack on the BBC server. You would at least think that the BBC would make some kind of statement. I am still frequently having trouble with 404 Page not found Errors and different format downloaded when doing a Refresh.
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I can believe that the CIA were aware of the attacks on the WTC.
But I cannot believe for one moment that they instigate and organised the who thing. Fifty years ago perhaps, but not now.
gedguy, I am not going to get into a detailed civil and aviation engineering debate on here. Let's leave it at a disagreement.
316. At 6:22pm on 07 Nov 2009, Wee-Scamp:
This should have the Secretary of Defence resigning. This has never happened to my knowledge. What they mean is they don't have enough money.
313. At 6:08pm on 07 Nov 2009, JRMacClure:
Is someone employed at Labour to think out these wonderful ideas, or have they simply forgotten that people notice things like cancelled services?
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# 316 Wee-Scamp
I wonder if there are any cuts like this in the rest of the UK?
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# 314 JRMacClure
The tragedy at Lockerbie has the smell of a midden about it.
The point that I was trying to put over about 9/11 was that the USA government (Bush) were implicit in this horrendous act and because the UK backed the actions that the USA took then I would put the UK in the same league as them. This is why our troops are over in Afghanistan getting killed and maimed for life, so that industrialists and oil men can make money. We should leave the rotten UK and go our own way. Stop the world; Scotland wants to get off!
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319. At 6:44pm on 07 Nov 2009, gedguy2:
The next SAR station is RAF Boulmer on the NE coast. Be interesting to see if that is cut as well.
The planing behind this will be simple. They will look at the number of rescues required and cost it that way.
Heaven help the fishermen and North Sea support vessels.......
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This is the CIA Mission on their website here. It says:
Mission
The Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) is an independent US Government agency responsible for providing national security intelligence to senior US policymakers.
No word there about reporting back to the US government just policymakers. Who are these policymakers?
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#313 JRMacClure
"Did someone actually post a link to the Herald story on the Glasgow trains?"
The straight answer is I'm not sure, but clicking on it did prompt me to have a look at today's "Herald View", The most vital issue...
Who'd have thought that a 656-word leader from a "quality", "Scottish" newspaper beginning "With only a month to go before ministers convene for the climate change talks in Copenhagen" would, er, "forget" to mention Miliband Minor's and Duff Gordon's snub to Scotland sending a minister?
Not a trick question - the answer's: Anyone who reads the Scottish media.
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# 321 Neil_Small147
I accept that during a recession there has to be priorities, but are those priorities being enacted in the rest of the UK or just in Scotland, the same Scotland that wants to break away from the UK? The same Scotland that has put more into the UK treasury than it has taken out. The same Scotland that puts in more troops per head of population than the rest of the UK.
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#316 Wee-Scamp
Well, Wee-Scamp I could say I am surprised and lost for words, but after all it is NuLabour and they have a history of failure, it is apparently part of their DNA.
Never mind come next year they will be toast.
#319 gedguy2
I remember putting this blog on NR on 14 Sept 2009 during the TU Congress at Liverpool:
Today: Delegates at the TUC congress in Liverpool approved a motion opposing any redundancies in the public sector as a way of making savings.
Today: Meddlesome promised Labour would try to create economic conditions which would "enable us to maintain frontline service delivery".
Today: It has been announced that Liverpool frontline fire-fighters are to be cut by 10%
I don’t think you make this up if you tried.
Just who do NuLabour and Meddlesome think they are kidding.
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320. gedguy2
We're splitting hairs because we are in 99% agreement. :-)
Both stink of government collusion and government cover-up.
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318. Neil_Small147
"But I cannot believe for one moment that they instigate and organised the who thing. Fifty years ago perhaps, but not now.
"
You think the CIA has changed in the last 50 years? Mind you, I HOPE you're right that they didn't organize it, but I'm not sure that makes it any better than standing aside and letting it happen so they could carry out their campaign against American freedom and their "masters" could up their profits. (masters in quotes because they'd turn on those masters in a heartbeat for their own ends)
It's horrible however you look at it.
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# 313 JRMacClure
Concerning this story I wonder if Jim Murphy is suddenly going to jump in to the fray and SAVE the line from closure? Now that would look good for the Labour party in Scotland. Start a scare story and get Mr. Useless to run to the rescue.
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320. gedguy2
"Stop the world; Scotland wants to get off!
"
If you're getting off, I'm coming too!
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#316 Wee-Scamp
"You really couldn't make it up."
Thanks for the link and indeed not.
But how comforting to hear from Bill Rammell, Armed Forces Minister in the featured quote that "I appreciate these changes have caused some concern but our search and rescue helicopter crews do a fantastic job".
What a comfort that will be to all.
#321 Neil_Small147
"The planing behind this will be simple. They will look at the number of rescues required and cost it that way.
Heaven help the fishermen and North Sea support vessels......."
Too true.
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328. gedguy2
Possible. That would explain some odd changes in betting odds. I suspect someone knows something.
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# 325 Roll_On_2010
It has been announced that Liverpool frontline fire-fighters are to be cut by 10%
I really hope they don't. I served there in Merseyside Firebrigade.
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# 326 JRMacClure
We're splitting hairs because we are in 99% agreement. :-)
But it's that 1% that makes life interesting ;-)
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#319 gedguy2
I also put this on the Andrew Neil blog about 3 hours ago:
Government failing to achieve value for money in billion pound contracts.
At least 43 major projects worth around £200 billion were "at risk" of not achieving value for money due to "significant weaknesses" in the expertise of government departments.
The Ministry of Defence, Department for Transport, and Department for Children, Schools and Families were signalled out for particular criticism by the National Audit Office.
Give over NuLabour wasting money….. It must be a misprint.
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# 329 JRMacClure
Bring your own black pudding sandwiches; you're not getting any of mine!
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328. gedguy2
"Jim Murphy is suddenly going to jump in to the fray and SAVE the line from closure?"
Round about Wednesday next week? Seems likely.
My guess at Labour Game Plan. 2010 Murphy loses as MP. 2011 Murphy elected MSP for a safe Labour seat and replaces Gray as NorthBrit Lab leader. Alex gets his 4th Labour leader to play with!
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#336 oldnat
What is a safe Labour seat in 2011?
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335. gedguy2
Oh, thank you! I was afraid eating one might be part of the price and that would be a HIGH price indeed. EWWWW!
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336. At 7:25pm on 07 Nov 2009, oldnat wrote:
" Alex gets his 4th Labour leader to play with!" O' behave!
Care to elaborate as to what great things lord Salmond of linlithgowshire
has done for Scotland?.
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336. oldnat
Oh, that was a horrible mental picture. *choke cough*
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# 334 Roll_On_2010
This sounds very similar to the technique Maggie used in the 80s to privatise huge swathes of the nationalised industries. Tell us that it isn't working (they were right about most of them but not necessarily the reasons they put forward) properly and flog them off to the private sector which would quite happily sack thousands while pocketing the subsidies the government gave them because the government never had the guts to sack the workers themselves. This way the government can throw up its arms and say: 'We can't do anything about it as it isn't a nationalised industry'. I suspect that Labour will do this if they get back in power. They cause the mess in the first place and then walk away from the problem that they initially created. However, it looks like the Tories will get into power and they'll have no problem with privatising everything they could get away with. So, it isn't going to be Labour's problem anyway. I also suspect that before Labour go there will be contracts signed which will put the country into a bigger bind (if that was possible) for the Tories to take the blame.
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#338 JRMacClure
It takes all sorts. Some like black pudding and don't care about constitutions, others care about constitutions and can't stand black pudding, and still the world turns. 8-)
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# 336 oldnat
Your timing might not be wrong. However, I suspect that there may be better redundant Scottish Labour MPs than Jim Murphy fighting for those MSP seats. Goodbye dour Ian Gray.
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337. handclapping
"What is a safe Labour seat in 2011?"
The loo.
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#339 derek
How about a bit of self respect? Or if you're being unionist what has Brown of Glasgow done for this country or has he just done for this country?
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#344 oldnat
So that's why Global had a new one fitted to his "constituency" home that isn't in Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath!
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#345
Apart from cancelling the trains to Glasgow ... (Anyone else want to play Life of Brian?)
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#339 "what great things lord Salmond of linlithgowshire
has done for Scotland?"
Hope!
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#345 handclapping
Respect! is not a target handclapping, it's a reward! earned by endeavour and deliverance?.
I doubt you've had a fleeting glimpse of respect! your self right wing attitude shades out your knowledge of decent moves!.
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343. gedguy2
"However, I suspect that there may be better redundant Scottish Labour MPs than Jim Murphy fighting for those MSP seats. Goodbye dour Ian Gray."
Most will, no doubt, simply retire on the profits of their troughing, but any ambitious Scots Labour politicians will see the SP as the only route to power since no MP from a Scots constituency will ever again hold major (if any) office in the UK again.
As a matter of interest, which of the inadequate Labour MPs likely to lose their seats next year would you rate as a better politician than Skeletor?
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348. Blind_Captain
"Hope!" and better things to come.
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339. derekbarker
Or maybe putting Scotland before the needs of "outwith" Scotland which makes a change for Scottish politicians.
(I used to have the impression that outwith meant south until Oldnat cleared that up for me. ;-) )
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#347
Alright, apart from cancelling the trains to Glasgow what has Broon of Glasgow ever done for us?
He proved the hereditary principle wrong? What do you mean proved the hereditary principle wrong? Well he showed what happens when you just appoint the nominated successor without elections.
Alright, apart from cancelling the trains to Glasgow and proving the hereditary principle wrong, what has Broon of Glasgow ever done for us?
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349. derekbarker
As opposed to attacking anything Scots or Scottish on the behest of their London masters as per Iain Gray and Anabel Goldie. Good lord, Iain Gray is even attacking St. Andrews Day celebrations--too Scottish.
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#349 derekbarker
#345 handclapping
Respect! is not a target handclapping, it's a reward! earned by endeavour and deliverance?.
Yep Delboy and Crash Gordon is going to get the Respect he so richly deserves in about 6/7 months time.
So from ‘It can only get better’ it will become ‘Hit the road Crash and don’t you come back no more, no more’.
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#349 derek
In that case, Global has my total respect, by his endeavour and deliverance he has bankrupted all four countries of the United Kingdom simultaneously. He is definitely superior to his mentor Nero, who only fiddled while Rome burned.
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342. handclapping
*weighs one in each hand*
Let me think about this. Black pudding... Constitution... Black pudding... Contitution....
I'll take the constitution. *hands back the black pudding and please note I ONLY touched it with gloves on*
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352. JRMacClure
"outwith meant south until Oldnat cleared that up for me"
It's one of the interesting things about language that I hadn't realised that this wasn't a "universal" English word until I started blogging outwith Scotland :-)
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355. Roll_On_2010
Actually, NO. Respect of ones' rights, liberties and freedom do NOT have to be earned. They are, as someone once penned, unalienable rights. Or should be.
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#353
OK! Big nose! what have the peoples front of Independence ever done to better Scotland! Ah, cant answer! take a cross and first on the right.
#354JR, why do you think! people who oppose Independence also oppose Scotland? some people believe queen Victoria created a better Scottish identity than the Bruce.
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360. derekbarker
"take a cross and first on the right."
It's OK. I was told it was a mistake and I was free to go.:-)
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#332 gedguy2
I cant find the original article I referred to in my post but I did find the following:
'Lives at risk' warning as Merseyside firefighters’ jobs are axed.
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360. derekbarker
"some people believe queen Victoria created a better Scottish identity than the Bruce."
I see this kind of stuff all the time on the English blogs - screwed by a Scot. :-)
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#360 derek
But at least I get to "look on the bright side of life". All you have to look forward to is May 2010! Tee Hee. 8-)
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An excellent post on Afghanistan:
Brown's Folly
Excellent piece.
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360. derekbarker
I don't think ALL people who oppose independence oppose Scotland. Macwhirter, for example, is a unionist who is also pro-Scotland.
But you CANNOT say that about politicians like Gray and Goldie who regularly attack anything Scottish and undermine their own country and its needs. Their parties are run FROM London FOR the benefit of their own benefit which rarely benefits Scotland.
That cannot be said of the SNP or Salmond and SCOTS KNOW IT. Which is why (in spite of constant attacks by people like you) he is so tremendously popular. He makes mistakes as everyone does but he is consitently and ALWAYS pro-Scotland.
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#363 oldnat
I thought you were one of the sensible ones, but it looks as you've been infected by this celebrity culture. Just what has Mrs Beckham done now that you expect me to know about?
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360. derekbarker
As for the proposition that covering the rooms of Balmoral Castle in tartan made a "better" Scottish identity than a SUCCESSFUL fight for independence, I'll just chuckle.
The same for let's see-- the positives of Highland Clearances...
Yep, lots of good for Scotland under Queen Victoria.
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#361 oldnat
Right! show us a sign Scotland how Scotland would fair better under Independence!
Salmond has giving us a sign "v" two finger sign' then we shall all hail the two finger sign.
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367. handclapping
"Mrs Beckham"
Was she? I know little of celebrities - other than myself, of course :-)
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By the way has anybody got a take on this or any further news?
Disability firm into liquidation.
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366. JRMacClure
Let me make it very plain that any unionist who supports the union with lies and denigration of their own nation deserves none of that thing we just discussed. They have given up the right to respect. They've sold it... as Scottish politicians have time after time. Do you REALLY think that Burns was lying when he said that Scotland was bought and sold for English gold? Do you REALLY think that the signing of the Act of Union was the LAST time that Scotland was bought and sold?
How often in London are the needs of the Scots at the top of the list? Ever? And WHERE do you think the "Scottish" Labour and "Scottish" Tory parties are run?
What was it that happened to Wendy Alexander after she told Salmond to "Bring it on"? Hmmmm?
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368. JRMacClure
"Yep, lots of good for Scotland under Queen Victoria."
Actually, there was.
As the UK increasingly legislated on domestic matters, they increasingly intruded on affairs Scotland had governed itself since the Union. That provoked such resistance in Scotland that it resulted in the post of Secretary for Scotland being created in 1885, and a constant assertion of Scots governing Scots that brought us to the current settlement. Without the Victorian Scots resistance, Scotland could well have been absorbed into a unitary UK state.
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#370 oldnat
Memo to Mrs oldnat: Please remove all mirrors from the oldnattery and start looking for builders who can enlarge the doorways from waist, oops shoulder, level up.
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#368 JR
" The same for let's see-- the positives of Highland Clearances"
JR, oldnat will smack your knuckles for that mistake, wrong monarch!
Stone the blasphemer!
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Oops! 372 was supposed to refer back to our Derek's post. A mis-click. Sorry.
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375. derekbarker
JR, oldnat will smack your knuckles for that mistake, wrong monarch!
If he does, I'll smack back because the Clearances went on well into Queen Victoria's reign. She was certainly one of the monarchs responsible.
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373. oldnat
Ah! Good point and one that I had missed. Thank you for bringing that up.
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#374 oldnat
Sorry about that. I was hoping to get derek out to play but he's not the same since he realised he'd been sold down the river by Big Tony's mob. Ah well, I'd better return to "Nudge" to see if I can find a better way.
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#377
It's a crimean shame JR! some dates 1819- 1901 Isle of wight.
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In fact, many Scots are totally unaware that there WAS a potato famine in Scotland concurrent with the one in Ireland. There was also a cholera outbreak about that time. This was when the Clearances reached their most brutal stage. End of lecture (on one of my weaker points of Scottish history just because you need a really strong stomach to study it)
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380. derekbarker
You are unaware, apparently and not unusual with the general ignorance of Scots of their own history, that what is generally referred to as the Second Phase of the Highland Clearances went on until the mid-nineteenth century.
What was it you were referring to again 1819- 1901 Isle of wight? Hmmm? Oh, yes. That's right, that Queen Victory was monarch for that phase.
Thank you for pointing that out. ;-)
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329. At 7:15pm on 07 Nov 2009, JRMacClure wrote:
320. gedguy2
"Stop the world; Scotland wants to get off!
"
If you're getting off, I'm coming too!
You could have phrased that a little better........
:)
(nothing like a bit of gutter humour)
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374. handclapping
LOL!
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371. At 8:47pm on 07 Nov 2009, Roll_On_2010 wrote:
All I know is that Aberdeen City Council are cutting everything they can get hold of apparently.
BTW, what are the odds on Smeato winning?
With a low turnout, it might be possible.......
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383. Neil_Small147
Well, at least I wasn't the one who said that Alex Salmond would "play with" Murphy! *choke choke*
But you're right, now that you point it out. I didn't mean it THAT way. lol
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Just how effective is Labour's next campaign going to be?
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article6908003.ece
"The party has been forced to make drastic cutbacks after expected donations failed to materialise."
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383. Neil_Small147
Now that's great Saturday night posting. LOL!
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My ancestors were cleared between the years 1813 and 1819.
Kildonan was savagely cleared in the years between 1813 and 1819 - so savagely that these clearances provoked the first recorded dissent against the evictions anywhere in the Highlands. The clans here were Gunns, Mathesons, Mackays, Macbeths and Sutherlands - all the peoples of the Sutherland/Caithness border region.
Aut Pax Aut Bellum
At that time it was sheep. Today it’s only the commodity that has changed….OIL.
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Dissent in the ranks brewing, lets bring back the threat of firing squads as a detterent.
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Brian are you surprised our politicians can't face economic reality?
Most of the Scottish public don't think for themselves. They buy and rely on a press which preaches non stop against civil liberties and human rights.
Extra police, teachers, doctors etc are approved of by the press. No criticism of this is permitted. Right wingers get extra police, the left teachers and doctors - glory to the devolved state!
Even negative remarks against football referees are punished by huge fines. Eternal glory to the suppressors of free speech in Scotland!
Compare and contrast modern Scotland with Poland (or the other people's republics) under communism.
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389. Roll_On_2010
The last clearances I know of specifically were in 1854 in Strathcarron as the last tenants were "cleared" from that area. In 1853 Lord Macdonald "cleared" the last of the people from Boreraig and Suishnish. It makes the people sound as though they were trash to be disposed of. Horrid and unspeakable. I read about it only with the utmost reluctance.
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389. Roll_On_2010
"Aut Pax Aut Bellum"
You know that Derek is hardly alone in not knowing that the Clearances went on so late. I have actually had Scots insist to me that there WAS no potato famine in Scotland when it was, in fact, hit quite hard by the famine. By that time many Scots had been forced into subsistence on the potato which is absurd in Scotland but many political and economic factors went into that and it caused the Clearances to actually become harsher and more brutal especially since many of those evicted were near starvation already.
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Oh by the way, in 1852 The Highland and Island Emigration Society formed with the backing of a certain Prince Albert. How kind of him to help finish shipping the people off.
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393. JRMacClure
You'll know of the riots at Inverness at the export of food from the Highlands during the potato famine, I presume.
If you haven't seen them, there are a number of relevant articles in the John O'Groat Journal and the Inverness Journal.
http://www.scottisharchives.net/gd/newspapers/search_results.jsp?newspaper=0&PrimarySubject=0&startyear=*&endyear=*&keywords=potatoes&StartRow=175&MaxRows=25
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395. oldnat
Thanks, Oldnat. I'll take a look at them. And I'm now officially done with my history lecture for the day. ;-)
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395. oldnat
Um its in gaelic me no speak the lingo. slaithe
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Reisgnation on nuclear submarine disposal programme
I believe at least one of these subs has a hull which has rusted through and they still haven't learn't how to dismantle but outside appearances comes before sense at Westminster.
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397. cynicalHighlander
These damned people in the Gàidhealtachd! They insist on using their own language.
Actually its simply a bi-lingual site referencing where articles in the historical press are. Unless the archives have been digitised you actually have to go and read the originals. Historians tend to do that!
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#393 JRMacClure
Highland Clearance site
1836 (autumn) -- a famine strikes the Highlands and Islands, leaving thousands to starve, despite efforts to fund emergency rations.
1845 -- The potato blight, which had devastated Ireland the previous year, wipes out most of the potatoes in the Highlands.
1846 (December) -- The Reverend Norman Mackinnon of Bracadale Manse wrote to the Chaplain in Ordinary to Queen Victoria: Oh, send us something immediately.... If you can send but a few pounds at present, let it come, for many are dying, I may say, of starvation...
And get this one:
1847 (February) -- James Bruce, a writer for "The Scotsman," reports that the Highlanders' problems are due to their own laziness and suggests the best solution is for the native tenants: as soon as they are able to labour for themselves, be removed from the vicious influence of the idleness in which their fathers have been brought up and have lived and starved.
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#360, Derek quote; "OK! Big nose! what have the peoples front of Independence ever done to better Scotland! Ah, cant answer! take a cross and first on the right."
Me ;"No... Actually, I choose freedom"
Your response derek is; "Oh... O.K. then, on you go!"
ps. don't hold out for me saying... "Nah, I'm only kidding."
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#400 Roll On 2010
The Scotsman has always been well served by it's journalists, don't you think. Right up to the modern day.
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400. Roll_On_2010
Well, you can count on The Scotsman for consistency. It hasn't changed in more than 150 years apparently!
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399. oldnat
This is all I get as my interest is that some of my ancestral community ended up in Dingwall court for being difficult in their removal from their land and livelyhood. "The Am Baile site has encountered a problem, which has been noted."
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395. oldnat
Are any of the original articles digitized, do you know, Oldnat? I haven't seen the ones from this source.
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404. cynicalHighlander
Highland Council does probably consider that it "has encountered a problem" when you logged on! As a Council full of Independents - it's not used to Independent thinkers! :-)
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#320
Winnie Ewing's ringing phrase in 1967 was " Stop the world. Scotland want to get ON"
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405. JRMacClure
I doubt it. You might ask the archive service of Highland Council
http://www.highland.gov.uk/leisureandtourism/what-to-see/archives/
They have all the back numbers of various Highland papers - the source of the list I posted.
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408. oldnat
Some horrifying things on that list.
Inverness - Duncan & Lachlan MacPherson, aged 10 & 12, jailed for 14 days & sent to Ragged School for 4 years, stole potatoes
Inverness Advertiser Tuesday, March 24, 1857
It was done to younger children. Ack. This is a subject I have difficulty treating with the calm indifference one is supposed to and why I didn't teach history--I can't pretend that I'm indifferent.
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I watched several news bulletins this evening which all covered the summit in St Andrews. Whilst most (like Sky and ITV) were slagging off Brown for receiving an embarrassing rejection from The US and Canada to his transaction tax idea (a 30 year old idea - said the American), the BBC was playing it very low key and it look like they were replaying the news from yesterday not the events of today and with a hint that the transaction tax still had legs. Their report looked like a big assist for the government rather than a expose of the truth.
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407. sneckedagain
Ah but she had even more ringing words years later, did she not? I believe they were something like: The Scottish Parliament, adjourned on the 25th day of March in the year 1707, is hereby reconvened.
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#385
"Smeato" is unlikely to get a four figure vote.
I suspect he will not save his deposit. For some reason some of the bookies have him at third favourite at 25/1 which actually only shows how compltely divorced from any read understanding or information of this contest that the metropolitian set have. You can have a bet on Smeato geting less than 1000 votes. I'd take it or better still ask for a price on him getting less than 500. For some reason some of the tabloid press seem to think Smeato is some kind of Scots hero. He's actually a figure of fun in the streets of Springburn.
A single socialist candidate would have taken third place, but I suspect the Tory will get it in front of the Green.
Met two well spoken young lads from Dingwall in Springburn to help the SNP today. Both 15. Both getting back to Queen Street Station to get the 6.20 back up north having done their many miles of leafletting. Must have been a bit of a culture shock.
The future is ours.
I have to go back to the 1960s to remember so many young people hugely active in the SNP. This is the Independence generation.
Met also a complete bus load of leafletters from Northumberland who engaged us in some jolly banter. They were leaflettng for the Tory.
Was assailed in a hostelry as we wound down after what felt like several hundred miles of putting leaflets into letter boxed by a faily typical Glasgow North East resident who told us we were " Anti catholic b*stards who were going to shut down Catholic schools". This of course does not appear in the Daily Record or the Evening Times who are spewing out anti-SNP bile on a daily basis but it will be the subtext around chosen doors as it has been in Labour controlled areas of Glasgow and Lanarkshire all the years I have been in politics. It provided a salutary lesson for some of our party who were Catholic but from furth of the poisoned central belt.
How are we doing?
Possible rather than probable.
The apathy vote is very obvious and there appears to be an effort to "stir up" apathy in a lot of the media.
The tabloids can't find a lot of reasons to encourage anybody to vote Labour so they are concentrating on providing reasons for people not to vote SNP.
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Afghanistan: Time to leave
Not before time
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Remembrance Sunday today.
I'll go to watch the parade to the War Memorial - in memory of my father and father-in-law who fought in WWII. Both returned home safe, but both also loathed war.
My first introduction to politics was my Dad making us watch the news on our new TV service on the Suez invasion.
His bitter condemnation of the politicians who create wars has stayed with me all my life.
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409. JRMacClure
"why I didn't teach history"
Teaching history was fabulous! You could open minds.
Two of my favourite lessons
Creating a 12 inch square chimney (from cardboard), and getting the smallest kid in the class to try to climb and clean it - then demonstrating how easy it was to use the Scots method of dropping a weighted brush down it.
Illustrating the Scots Poor Law and the desperation of the parish to offload kids as soon as they were old enough to earn their own living. Ask the class how young that might be - some smartass will say 4 (they get gently ridiculed by asking the rest of the class how competent the 4 year olds they know are). Then the smartass is told that they are absolutely right. A 4 year old was "indentured" as an "apprentice" (slave) to a farmer in the 1820s.
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415. oldnat
I was thinking of on the uni level--where being a heartless b*stard is pretty much a requirement. Don't love the people you study and if possible don't study the people at all. Make it all into theory.
I can cry reading Give Me Three Grains of Corn, Mother so I'm totally wrong for it. In my chosen profession, I'm expected to have passion so I think I was probably right. :)
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Does Gordon Brown or anyone really know anything about William Bain, the Labour candidate in Glasgow North East?
He is curently employed as a law lecturer in London at the London South Bank University but there are no other proper biographical details about him. As a lecturer you would think he did research and attended academic conferences but there is no record of these on Google. He is a mystery man. Does anyone know:
- what did he do between 1995 and 2003?
- where does he live when he is working at LSBU?
- what does he do in his non-work life?
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#414 oldnat
Yep that is were I will be later today at our parade and cenotaph.
My Dad, unlike his Father and Brother who went into the RAF, enlisted with the Black Watch and fought in North Africa. Where he volunteered for the 8/9th Commandos. (I can never remember which). During that carnage he saw many things that he never got over. But the thing that haunted him most, even until his death, was one particular event.
After the war he was one of the last troops to be demobbed; his last job was to oversee the White Russians we sent back to Stalin. Whole families, fathers, mothers with children in their arms and clutching each others hands jumped to their deaths from the trains, knowing what they were going back to.
So today I will also be remembering the countless civilians whom also died during the wars.
That is one of the memories that my Father left me and I thank him for letting me share in his burden, even today.
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JR McClure 392
My maternal great grand parents including a 96 year old (MacInnes s) were evicted from Suisinish in 1853 and some subsequently settled in Drumfearn although others sailed on the likes of the Hercules to either Australia or Canada.
I am frequently in e mail correspondence with a relative in Los Angelese who's family left Skye around 1850 and shares the original gaelic name with me of Mac Gilleleabhar which probably is the origin of your pseudonym.
Sad times indeed especially since it was carried out by fellow Scots.
The more Scotland changes the more it stays the same.