Making the changes
Will this be enough? Will Sir Christopher Kelly's recommendations, if implemented, be enough to ease public anger over MPs expenses?
You'll have seen what he has in mind: rent or hotels not mortgages, a ban on employing relatives, curbs on what can be claimed, reduced pay-offs for MPs who stand down, receipts and explanations for all travel.
Plus key principles - such as honesty and accountability - upon which public life should be founded.
Does it all sound a bit familiar? It should. It's pretty broadly what happens at Holyrood, including the enlisting of fundamental principles.
The Holyrood system was itself substantially revised while George Reid was in the chair, in the light of earlier discontent.
Indeed, introducing his report, Sir Christopher called Holyrood in evidence, pointing to the system of publishing all expense details which, he said, had assuaged concern north of the Border.
The report itself also notes specific, detailed comparisons.
Lagging behind?
For example, with regard to proposed tight new rules on transport, the report counters critics by pointing out, faintly acidly, that "this transparency will bring the House of Commons in line with the Scottish Parliament, where such arrangements do not appear to be unduly bureaucratic."
However, there could be at least one area where Holyrood may end up lagging behind Westminster.
That concerns the employment by politicians of their relatives, frequently their spouses.
One Westminster spouse has argued that it would be "nice" if these arrangements could continue at least for as long as the other side of the partnership remains an MP.
Nice, it might be. But Sir Christopher is not moved.
He believes that such arrangements do not befit modern employment practice. They won't do. He wants the habit phased out.
In Holyrood, those who employ members of their family have to register the fact. But there is no ban on such employment.
'Double jobbing'
This may now form an element of the review by Sir Neil McIntosh who has been tasked by Holyrood's corporate body with looking at allowances north of the border.
There's another cross-border element examined by Sir Christopher Kelly and his team.
The issue of "double jobbing" - as it is known in Northern Ireland. The practice where a politician sits both at Westminster and in a devolved legislature.
Sir Christopher notes this is most common in Northern Ireland where 16 out of 18 Westminster MPs also sit in Stormont, five of them ministers.
Scotland's first minister, Alex Salmond, also presently holds a dual mandate - although he will resolve that shortly as he is not contesting the UK general election.
The Kelly report suggests the practice should end entirely, ideally in time for the 2011 devolved elections.
I'm 
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Brian:
Will this be enough?
Probably NO...But, it is a work in progress.....
=Dennis Junior=
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Brian:
[Will Sir Christopher Kelly's recommendations, if implemented, be enough to ease public anger over MPs expenses?]
It will ease the anger, but, it will temper the public over the Expenses that MPs are allowed to get...
=Dennis Junior=
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Brian
How come you notice Wee Eck's "double jobbing" and not Lord George Foulkes'?
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Apologies if this has already been flagged up. 'The Glaswegian' (http://www.theglaswegian.co.uk) is running a podcast next Monday with all the candidates in the Glasgow NE by-election. Candidates will face Daily Record political editor Magnus Gardham - and each other. Email your questions to webeditor@theglaswegian.co.uk by Friday, November 6.
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Online Ed Here
The 'blog whoosh' tactic is similar to the interruptions in political interviews, it kind of breaks up flow. Notice that there were many interesting comments on both Kerr interviews on the last blog.
Brian continues to ignore the by-election as it enters its final week, pretty much in line with the Scottish media's approach.
I'll post details of Bain's interview when it the BBC finally get around to him, questions, intro interruptions etc.
Kerr's interview this morning as I have already said, impressed me greatly. Robertson went at him hammer and tongs but Kerr still managed to make some very valid points on Glasgow Council's politicising of teacher numbers.
The trick question was there again, designed to stump Kerr - Kerr dealt with it admirably.
Just thought I'd mention that I have had a response from the BBC re: Catriona Renton attributing views to Alex Neil [that Neil did not express] at the recent SNP conference.
No apology, but an acknlowledgement of 'concerns' ragarding the broadcast. The BBC have been in touch with senior SNP minister(s) over the broadcast - make of that what you will.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
#3. handclapping wrote:
Brian
How come you notice Wee Eck's "double jobbing" and not Lord George Foulkes'?
------------------------------------------------------------------
Bet Lord George doesn't hand over any of his trough to any charity or foundation unlike Wee Eck.
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Online Ed Here
Brownedov writes:
The Kerr interview starts at 1h 41m 30s in for about 7 mins (nearly twice that of Bain yesterday)
I haven't timed the tory candidate interview but of the three that I have listened to then Bain's 'interrogation' was shortest at just over 4 minutes.
Baxendale is just under 5m 30s with Kerr at almost 7 minutes, why the disparity?
The Kerr interview backfired on the BBC for he skillfully used it in order to do what journalists have been failing to do - hold Labour to account. I didn't mention it earlier but the 'wasting money on a referendum' question' [note that Bain didn't field any on Valman] was used by Kerr in order to put forward arguments for independence.
I have my reservations about the podcast alluded to earlier especially with it being controlled by a Daily Record journalist and questions being filtered by god knows who.
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#3 handclappin, #7 X_sticks
In the interests of accuracy I think that it would be fair to point out that His Lordship the Northern British NuLab List Member for the Lothians does not have 2 jobs. He is "A member of the House of Lords, for which he recieves no renumeration".
Details of his other jobs can be found his pages on the Parly website.
http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/msp/memberspages/George_Foulkes/roi.htm
Makes interesting reading for those fans of His Lordship
And to be fair to the man, he does say that he donated his income from writing a column to Youth Sport in the Lothians.
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Afternoon Brian,interesting the parts of the report you chose to highlight and the bits that you choose to ignore.
The implementation of this report in full ,it seems, could take up to 5 years to implement.
sorry- but who is kidding who!
The MP'S have yet to learn anything ,LIKE, the rest of us will no longer accept the deceit of our so called political "leaders". Our MP's still need to get there head round the FACT that they are supposed to be in Parliament to work for the electorate ,not to massage their ego's, not to assist big business,not to start illegal wars,not to look after number 1 and most certainly they are not there to rip us off,but to improve the lot of their constituents
remember if it wasn't for some nasty whistle blower ,we would still be in blissful ignorance of the facts, look at all the blocks MP's have put in place time after time to stop us finding out what they were up to!
Sid
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Will this be enough? Will Sir Christopher Kelly's recommendations, if implemented, be enough to ease public anger over MPs expenses?
Yes and no. Yes in the long term, but no in the short term. I'm sure many incumbent MPs will be "double jobbying" themselves at the prospect of losing their sinecures at the next election.
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#9 Chiefy1724
But, as our MPs are squealing "Our expenses were part of the remuneration for our jobs.", what about the expenses / allowances he can claim?
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Personally, I am quite happy with the employment of family members as long as it is above board and out in the open (and the person is qualified for the job and the person holds no other job and the pay is proportionate). The electorate can then decide whether it is justified.
Just think of the possible case where an MP who has no family members (just to make this instance less sensational), but finds his/her secretary/research assistant attractive (and the feeling is mutual). At what point does the MP have to say to their potential spouse "sorry love, you're sacked"? Will that happen? Who draws that line?
What about same-sex partners? or common law husbands/wives? What about second cousins once removed?
John
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I should say, that I work away from home quite a lot, and get expenses for that: hotel accomodation, travel and subsistance. I tend to book accomodation and travel through the company, who pay for it directly (this is not always possible, eg with last minute flights). I have to have receipts for anything that I pay for, and can claim that back in full, although the accounts department are reasonable and know that you cannot always get receipts (eg some bus tickets in foreign countries), and accept some unreceipted expenses.
I would have been happy for MPs to be treated like this (basically as grown ups) except for the fact that they have already abused a system that treated them as adults and:
When I was a student, and being paid from a government grant, I also got expenses from the education authority to go to conferences (three in three years). The accomodation and travel was booked through the university travel agency and could not be booked any other way. I could only claim subsistence for items I had receipts for (up to a maximum per day). However the amount I got back was reduced by what they calculated I would have spent had I been at home. Basically I only got back additional expenses.
This system was beaurocratic, slow and stingy compared to how the MPs treated themselves. Given this this is how the lowest paid public sector people are treated, then that is exactly how MPs (and all other people being paid from the public purse) should be treated.
John
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13 JOHN: I have to agree with your comments. There are so many nowadays who are in long-lasting relationships but have never married, so I think the proposal of not employing family members will require further consideration.
By the way, I've just listened to David Kerr on this morning's GMS and I thought he acquitted himself very well.
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It will be interesting to see what questions arise from the Daily Records podcast if it goes ahead. As someone above said the questions will be well and truely filtered and refined to protect the Unionist campaign.
The questions should be directed at the Daily Record rather then the candidates, asking why they have being regurgitating Labour party bile about the SNP for weeks and months (more of the same in today's issue).
This is probably a trap being set for Mr Kerr and he should have nothing to do with it. He could justify his reluctance by saying he didn't expect to be treated fairly by Gardham, as evidenced in the Daily Record's skewed output.
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Brian - We all know who the biggest snouts at the trough are, you know to - So why try to hide this and smear Scotland's First Minister as he is the only Scottish MP you mention. Shockingly poor reporting.
Surely a better headline would be "SNP Government get it right". Or wouldn't the censor allow such truthfulness ?
Still no mention of how much Labour's Mr Murphy et al have scammed or where "Bain of Glasgow" lives (possibly he commutes ?).
Online Ed :I am delighted Ms Renton is being brought to book for her glencampbelly reporting - I saw the five minute piece the same rigged question over and over again.
I believe Ms Renton is an ex-labour politico(Brian - can you confirm this please ?) - Why don't the BBC employ some journalists as there are plenty of questions that need answers ?
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#12 handclapping
HLLML suggests on his pages that "on the basis of two years’ experience, estimate that I will receive per annum allowances and expenses of between £30,001 and £35,000 for overnight and day subsistence and office costs and between £10,001 and £15,000 for travel to and from London."
He further goes on to say
"I undertake this work whenever my Scottish Parliament and constituency duties allow".
Nice non-job if you can get it.
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" Blether with Brian
'Easing' public anger over MP expenses" ?!
Can't be done. We could devise the ulimate perfect system, but when people are put in charge of it, there is nothing surer they either make a or tear the rear end out of it.
A pal said, "we're being taken". (Actually he didn't say taken). I tried to console him and lighten his anger by replying, "well atleast if we get independence we'll be being taken by our own" and asked him what he'd prefer. He replied "I'd rather just not be taken!"
There is just no answer to that if you have any self respect. Given that one of my main motivations for wanting independence was to stop being "taken", i find myself being questioning it now. It seems as though being "taken" will never stop. It is in many MANY ways far worse when it is your own that is doing it.
And on that note. I have heard just one too many stories about the very very irresponsible handling of serious offenders. There seems to be insultingly scant regard for public safety. What about the compassion and more importantly JUSTICE for them and the victims of the crimes?
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Brian,
"Will this be enough? Will Sir Christopher Kelly's recommendations, if implemented, be enough to ease public anger over MPs expenses?"
Pacific Quay is near enough for you to go out on the stump and find out, on our behalf, how the electorate of Glasgow North East answer your questions? And we can see what results tomorrow week.
We have heard what the candidates' views on expenses are, although it would be useful to have an update from them our their opinions on Kelly, but with polling only a week away surely you have an unmissable opportunity here.
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#17 AstonishedII
It is a matter of record that Ms Renton was a Glasgow Labour Councillor "and the first Labour member to represent the "unwinnable" seat of Kelvindale." A quick search engining suggests that she was on the 1999 and 2003 Glasgow List for the Parly, on the 2004 Scotland List for the Euros and the 2007 Glasgow List for the Parly.
Just enter her name into any well-known search engine for further details.
As an aside, If one had a BBC Southern Britain correspondent of similar pedigree interviewing, for example, CMD, I wonder if somebody might suggest that the interviewer may not perhaps be objective in their interrogation ?
Isn't this the very reason that Elizabeth Quigley (a.k.a Mrs Elizabeth Swinney, wife of nasty secessionist SNP Finance Minister and former leader John) kept getting the Mrs McGlumpherty's Cat stories that are nothing whatsoever to do with politics in any way whatsoever on Reporting Northern Britain. Just in case there were any accusations of bias ?
It would be impolite and probably quite inaccurate of me to suggest that there may be dual standards in Operation at the BBC Northern Britain Newsroom.
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Another red herring. The judgement has to be made as to whether any person employed by an MP or MSP does the work - not whether they are related.
Many spouses work extremely hard for their "boss" and do a lot more hours than unrelated paid staff do.
Lots of paid and unrelated staff perform very poorly (in their public duties that is. I'm not making a sly reference to carnal matters at which I am assured many are extremely proficient).
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I've just been looking at the EU Parliament site to see if there are any committees or legislation regarding national broadcasting of political information. It's a bit labrynthine. I would expect that there were guidelines somewhere about fairness, promoting democracy etc, perhaps within "Culture and Education." Is there anyone on Brian's blog who is familiar with the EU's laws on this? I'd be disappointed if there isn't a binding framework that broadcasters, e.g. the BBC have to adhere to. And if there isn't, then there absolutely should be!
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#23
Italy is part of the EU. Anything goes.
I would try the UN, maybe there's a case for suppressed minority treatment.
John
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Thanks for the info chiefly1724.
"It would be impolite and probably quite inaccurate of me to suggest that there may be dual standards in Operation at the BBC Northern Britain Newsroom."
Are you suggesting that BBC labour are in some way glencampbelly ? :)
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Nick Clegg: only 'Alice in Wonderland' Westminster would delay reform of 'rotten' Parliament
"“We need agreement now, driven by political leadership from the top, that Kelly will not be watered down and will be implemented as quickly as possible.
“That seems to be an absolute minimum if we are going to clean up what will go down in history as one of the most rotten Parliaments ever.”"
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#23 Blind_Captain
"I'd be disappointed if there isn't a binding framework that broadcasters, e.g. the BBC have to adhere to."
I have never heard of one, but you could try EUROPE DIRECT who have a freephone telephone number within the EU and offer "An answer to your questions on any European Union policy".
#24 John__
"Italy is part of the EU. Anything goes."
Yes, but officially they have speed limits on their roads too.
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So Mr Bain is locally born!!!! - he lectures at South London University so WHERE does he live - in Glasgow constituency??? - I doubt it.
This so called blog is nothing but a rant at SNP and then anyone who does not support Liebour. I OBJECT to my money being used in this way - TRY and be impartial SOMETIMES otherwise its boring.
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The double jobbing phenomenon in Northern Ireland is nothing compared to the political culture in France.In the Hexagon politicians routinely hold office simultaneously at different levels.The current Defence Minister Herve Morin is also Mayor of Epaignes.
Of course they don't just outdo us on that score.MPs' expenses and the New Labour scandals(very bad though they are)can't compete with the scale of endemic corruption in French politics.It's partly caused no doubt by what I mentioned above,as well as the elite ENA graduate system they have created for top jobs in politics,civil service and business.So we'd better guard against the Oxbridge/policy unit/safe seat at age 24 culture exemplified by the likes of the Milliband brothers.Not that I'm saying that the Millibands could really be described as elite you understand.
So while there's plenty of graft to be stopped I agree with you sneckedagain#22 that it would be unfair to penalise relatives of MPs who work hard as researchers or assistants.
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Are we talking of the gushy lady who presented Scottish Politics this afternoon?
The " interview" from the SNP conference was an appalling piece of spin and obfuscation.
I would'nt even grace it with " glencambelly", it was even worse.
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19. Phil_AnthropponentSince Holyrood is considered a model of transparency, especially in comparison to Westminster, I'm a bit confused about why you have decided that Westminster is less "snout in the trough" or perhaps I'm misunderstanding your point.
As a general principal, my own view (the opposite of many in my own country which is after all huge), is that the closer to home your politicians are the easier it is to make sure they stay on the up and up. As someone here pointed out, it is a good thing if you know where their auntie bides.
I listened to the Kerr interview and thought he did very well. The interviewer was aggressive and somewhat hostile but not over-the-top. Kerr made good points on all issues and at no point was made to look foolish or put on the back foot. I'd say he has acquitted himself very well.
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Incidentally the longer Kerr interview is a good thing, you know, not a bad one. The SNP are the underdogs so the more air time Kerr, who presents well, gets the better. (Admittedly the less time Bain spends on the air also favors him since he does not come across well)
I disagree I'm afraid with people who say Kerr should avoid going into interviews where he is likely to be met with hostility. First, that would mean going into hiding since every single media source is hostile to the SNP or the next thing to it. Secondly, he can't afford to give the impression of "running scared". If he avoids a debate, it gives his opponents too good a sound bite with "he was afraid to face me".
Thirdly, the underdog needs every bit of attention they can get to try to make up the difference.
The "birthgate" issue clearly does not have legs. It's just too silly and opens Bain up to questions on where he REALLY lives. They can't afford to press on that too hard.
They lucked out with Kerr. He wasn't their first choice but it's hard to see how their first choice would have presented better. I have relative confidence that he can go into a hostile situation and hold his own. And it's something that he'd better be able to do because, guys, it's what Glasgow NE will be paying him for if he gets the seat.
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22. sneckedagain
In some ways you are right, the only important thing should be is the work getting done? However the system needs reformed because every single party has had people with their nose in the trough. I freely admit that some were way worse than others, but no-one was squeaky clean.
The only way to move this forward is to make the process squeaky clean. Jobs funded by the taxpayer should be advertised in accordance with employment law. Everyone who is qualified should be able to apply if they choose.
We must not have this type of scandal ever again. On any scale.
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29. mistydougie
The main disadvantage of PR is that it promotes party patronage. It removes the direct link between voter and candidate. The problem of little cliques and groups will get worse in politics not better.
While you say it is unfair to penalise those who work hard, there will be those just working the system.
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I think there is a danger of missing a very important point, that the real issue is about transparency, that what ever is claimed is quickly and easily visible, thereby open to scrutiny and challenge. Although the article suggests that Holyrood is lagging behind Westminster as respects the employment of family members. The real matter is that Holyroods expenses are a matter of public record. The matter is not whether to employ family members or not but whether the public gets value for this expense or not. Ensure all expense are quickly made a matter of public record and very quickly the problem will go away.
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#32 JRMacClure
"The SNP are the underdogs so the more air time Kerr, who presents well, gets the better. (Admittedly the less time Bain spends on the air also favors him since he does not come across well)"
Quite so. It was unclear with Bain whether they simply put him out of his misery or maybe they just edited out the pregnant pauses.
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36. Brownedov
I suspect they put him out of his misery because if they were editing out the painful pauses they missed one. ;)
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#34 northhighlander
"The main disadvantage of PR is that it promotes party patronage. It removes the direct link between voter and candidate. The problem of little cliques and groups will get worse in politics not better."
That's certainly true of most list systems, but utterly untrue of STV, although for some bizarre reason in the euro elections in N.Ireland the parties each put up only one candidate. In the council elections, parties should put up at least as many candidates as there are vacancies and let the electorate decide who they want.
In any event, I'm not sure how it relates to mistydougie's #29. Unlike the UK's plurality system, France have single-member majority voting. They only use PR for the euro elections where I believe they use the same stupid D'Hondt method as Great Britain.
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Five British soldiers shot dead
The best possible argument for Scottish independence -- and why you can expect more attacks from CIA front organizations.
The Scottish government would not send you to die in OUR wars.
I am sorry. I am so, so sorry.
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#37 JRMacClure
"I suspect they put him out of his misery because if they were editing out the painful pauses they missed one."
A third alternative may be that, in keeping with local traditions, he is emulating the oratorial style of the formerly honourable but now noble Lord Martin of Springburn.
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#9 Chiefy1724
#3 handclappin, #7 X_sticks
And the rest:
Iain Dale: George Foulkes is the Ultimate Political Trougher.
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They were caught cheating the system, but then they really are just a bunch of hypocrits. I'm quite sure there be some who wipe their brows as they came close to milking the same cow. Nothing short of custodial sentences would please me but fat chance! I wonder just how detailed these investigations went, personally not far enough I'm quite sure there's more hidden from UK public. And nepotisim is alive and kicking in all walks of political / civil servant walks of life! Either mumzy or daddy is some sort of envoy in a nice cushy overseas job!
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#39 JRMacClure
"Five British soldiers shot dead"
Yes. And mourned in the House of Cards today by a PM who will not even admit that the Afghan government has lost any veneer of democratic legitimacy. As an old Liberal, I'm no L-D fan, but their leader, Clegg, asked very specifically about this and got the usual brush off from Duff Gordon.
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#32 - "the less time Bain spends on the air also favors him since he does not come across well"
To be honest, I'm becoming more relaxed at the obvious bias in the Scottish media as I'm now convinced that it is leading to a better calibre of SNP politicians whilst leaving Labour people without the practice required to appear even basically competent.
Salmond & co have the ability to think fast on their feet and at least some of this talent must have been honed by fielding difficult questions from labour friendly, glencamblyesk "journalists". Murphy, the Greyman and especially Bain are treated with kid gloves by these same "journalists". Never challenged, never thrown a curve ball, never have to think fast.
The Greyman illustrates the effect this has had on Labour politicians in Scotland every time he flounders against Salmond's retorts (if it wouldn't lead to Labour getting even more than their fair share of air-time during by-election campaign, I'd love Salmond to take Murphy up on his challenge, just to see Murphy's arrogance thrown back in his face as there's little doubt Salmond would wipe the floor with him).
Bain, that startled rabbit look every time he's asked to justify any of his assertions is priceless.
I was going to respond to the Daily Record's appeal for questions to put to the candidates. My question would basically be this:
"Given Bain's commitment of additional funding for umpteen thousand exra prison places in Scotland, and that that funding must come from the Treasury to Holyrood to be allocated and spent by the Scottish government, does he propose that Westminster ring-fences parts of the Scottish government's budget so ensure that Westminster MPs can dictate to Holyrood how monies should be spent, even in devolved areas?"
Anybody give me decent odds on such a question being put to Bain?
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The best way to ensure that no Scots are involved in sleaze at Westminster, is not to send them there in the first place.
It's a bizare thought, but, what do you think would happen to a high profile BBC reporter who went on holiday with a senior labour politician?
Promotion;0)
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44. ForteanJo
It would be amusing if Mr. Salmond waited until Mr. Murphy was standing for re-election and then took up the offer to wipe the floor with his sneering, sneaky, dishonest... *ahem*
I don't like Murphy. I don't like any politician that joins in the attack on Scotland, no matter what their party. If they sell their soul to London, they can't be serving the good of Scotland. It's as simple as that.
You may well be right that the process means that the SNP ends up with the best of the lot. Anyone with any weakness is winnowed out by the harshness of the process. If Gray had been in the SNP, he wouldn't have gotten far.
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#34 northhighlander
I certainly agree with you that if you allow politicians to employ their relatives then some will be unscrupulous about it.But it should be up to parliamentary watchdogs and investigative reporters to uncover these things.To throw dozens of people out of their jobs on the grounds that some of them are dishonest or lazy is not my idea of being just.
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39. JRMacClure
Thank you for your sympathy. Scottish soldiers are dying in Afghanistan
in disproportionate numbers.However,thats not unusual. In the First World War I believe that British fatalities for the other home nations
were about 10%. For Scottish troops over 26%.The figures were kept secret until 1998 under the clever 80 year rule. Scottish soldiers were used as shock troops.I just happened to read the figures in a small
paragraph tucked away in a corner of a page at the time.
Maybe you already know all this.If so,perhaps you have the exact numbers.
If the true figures had been known at the time, I'm sure that our history
would have been very different.
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48. Rockycoast
I had recently read about Scottish troops being used as shock troops in WWI but don't have any figures. Isn't that what was done with Scottish troops in past wars? I've read that was the case as well and that what happened in WWI was no exception.
Sympathy doesn't do much. It's a subject that I'm known to have strong feelings about so I can't say very much except that the extent to which I'm grieved by our own government (and yours) propping up a corrupt regime with the lives our own people is unconscionable. I wish for you a government that actually VALUES the lives of its people because they are actually a part of the people.
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@44 ForteanJo, I agree about the relentless hostility leading to a better calibre of politician in the SNP.
Strangely enough it also gives them a kind of freedom. The SNP know that regardless of what they do they will get a negative response from the media. Imagine the pressure Gray, Murphy and the rest would be under if they operated in such a hostile climate. They can barely string a coherent sentence together at times despite the slavish devotion of the Labour media.
Has there ever been a morning when the SNP cabinet sat down and collectively said "well that didn't go down well". Of course not, what would be the point as nothing they EVER do or say goes down well with our media. There is no need to "keep in" with them, court them, appease them as they flat out hate the SNP and all its works. Quite liberating really.
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I heard a minister for defence tell us all that the troops were doing a great job in Afghanistan keeping the streets of Britain safer.
When is someone going to stand up and shout
" We don't believe this sh&te!"
Why are we all so polite to these lying chancers?
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50. GrassyKnollington
An interesting way of looking at it and quite true when you think about it. Even the al-Megrahi release only brought a somewhat more intense degree of hostility rather than any NEW hostility. I'd never quite thought of it that way. What a good thing to have politicians NOT courting the press, although at least one or two friendly newspapers wouldn't be SUCH a bad thing.
Anyone have spare cash to go out and buy a failing press? Well all know of a few. ;-)
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@52 Yep JR one or two friendly newspapers would be a good thing but I don't see it happening for a while. Incredibly,the SNP are not part of the establishment in Scotland despite being the Government.
If you don't believe in Westminster in Scotland you're not in the establishment. It is a thoroughly ridiculous situation but our elected Government effectively operate as outsiders.
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#48 Rockycoast
In the WW1 Scottish casualties totalled one in six of Allied deaths.
On a population basis it should have been about one man in fourteen.
One man in six of miltary age in Scotland died in WW1.
There are over 120,000 names of the killed of Scots infantry in the great books in the Scottish National War Memorial in Edinburgh Castle. You can see whole families of brothers, cousins and even fathers who fell together in the bloody fields of Flanders and other theatres of the greatest idiocy that mankind ever engaged in.
There are 100 names on the War Memorial on the green at Inveraray out of a total population of the wee town and its surrounding area of probably about 1200 people. Nearly every able bodied young man in that area didn't come home. You can check the registers all across rural,island and highland Scotland and see the names on the farms and the businesses changing as we moved into the 1920s as surviving daughters inherited property and married incomers.
And if you include casualties at sea the Scottish figures for WW2 are just as bad.
So they next time some patronisig metropolitan commentator implies that Scotland, the beggar nation, gets subsidy from the generous English taxpayer or that we can't defend ourselves or that we don't pull our weight just tell them WE OWE YOU NOTHING.
And do you know who sustained the second worst casualties on a per capita basis. It was those bad, bad Irish johnies. At leastt they had the sense to get out. They're 100 years ahead of us
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Back on topic (quite unusual for me!)
"Double jobbing" I think is actually quite sensible while we still have the UK.
It reduces the number of politicians.
Constituents of those who "double job" get a one shop service whether their concerns are UK or Scottish etc.
Key Scottish politicians get to represent their national (or regional if they are Unionists) interests in the most appropriate forum - if they can get elected in constituencies (tough, Auntie Bella).
Of course there need to be some adjustments to the allowances regime. Double jobbers should get only one salary, and hotel expenses only in London.
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53 grassy
I'm very pleased to see you picking up on something I mentioned a couple of blogs back. In my opinion there definitely is an establishment that crosses over between Scotland and the rest of the UK. It has a real power and has nothing to do with elections or democracy - and it's definitely unionist!
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In fact I suspect part of the reason for the vitriolic attitude to the SNP is EXACTLY because they are a threat to the establishment!
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SNP government to build alliances with small states, city councils and major companies pressing for deep and binding cuts in CO2 emissions:
Scotland signs up to Climate Group.
Alex Salmond's Scottish nationalist government has joined California and New York city in a global alliance of small states, city councils and major companies pressing for deep and binding cuts in CO2 emissions.
The Scottish National party administration said today it had signed up to the Climate Group, a London-based not-for-profit campaign which is lobbying heavily for a far-reaching and long-term global deal on emissions at next month's climate talks in Copenhagen.
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David Cameron - "Second, we will introduce a United Kingdom Sovereignty Bill to make it clear that ultimate authority stays in this country, in our Parliament. "
And we can regularly point out to Scots that Cameron wants to steal the sovereignty of the Scots people, overthrow the Claim of Right, and move our ultimate control into the hands of grubby politicians.
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# 54 sneckedagain
I'm glad that you mentioned the Irish as they took severe casualties as well. I would also mention the Welsh and the English. All suffered terribly during that awful war. What was disgraceful was the utter contempt by the leaders of all the nations involved concerning their own people. Let us remember that this war was fought by 3 cousins who couldn't get on with each other, Our King, the Kaiser and the Tsar; they were cousins and over 8 million men had to die because of their greed for power. My own grandfather was gassed during that war and mostly bed-ridden for the rest of his life. I have nothing but contempt for our leader. Has that attitude changed? Not one iota. We still send our young men to war and still expect them to do so while being under equipped. Nothing has changed. Those who send our young men to die are not the ones who have to stand in harm's way. Let us get away from this despicable Union and save our young men/women from their power games.
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#59
That's a very relevant point to pick up on Oldnat, while most others missed it?.
Yes! Cameron's idea of sovereignty lies with those grubby MP's, packed into the house of no change.
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60 Gedguy2
You never said a truer word! I totally agree.
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59. oldnat
NO PROMISE FROM ANYBNODY IN THE LAB/LIB/CON PARTY CAN EVER BE TREATED AS TRUTHFUL
"The new promise seems impossible secondly because, unless Britain adopts a formal constitution which I would like, a promise to bind future governments is non-binding if they vote not to be bound (as with the cynical guarantees that the government of 2100 will ban fire). Primarily it is impossible because this constitreaty contains rules as to how to change itself so that if it is simply impossible to have a referendum on it then it is simply constitutionally impossible to reject future centralisation using those rules."
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TBF, Brian is far from being glencambelly. Perhaps he couldn't stomach mentioning the buffoon Fooooolkes.
Of interst are the comments made by the French foreign minister about the Tories European "policy"
How will Bella play this?
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Holy smokes!! Newsnight scotland would appear to have some reporting from the by-election!! What has happened to them? rush of blood to the head?
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64. Gaelstorm
I didn't see BT's comment about Alex Salmond as unreasonable since he included that Mr. Salmond is not contested in the GE. It seemed a pretty reasonable comment.
Gaelstorm are you talking about the comment the French foreign minister made about a certain shadow minister having "bizarre autism"? (I won't say who because repeating the remarks more fully would probably be moderated.) Or on the UK being "marginalised"?
Interesting comments.
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#64 Gaelstorm
You mean this article from the Guardian:
France: 'autistic Tories have castrated UK in Europe'.
"We need to be united, otherwise we will be wiped out and marginalised. None of us can do it alone. Whether you're big or small, the lesson is the same. And England's risk is one of marginalisation. Irrelevance."
I note he says England and not the UK?
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As I wander round the various mountains and glens of this fair land I never cease to be humbled at the number of monuments raised to our dead. No matter how wee the glen or strath, there they stand, some with names fading now but all declaring their sacrifice. If you're ever down Peebles way, there is a fine example in the court yard of the old town buildings - names from every village and farm toon in the area for both WW1 and WW2 - it makes you greet! I wonder, if they have to organise a call up for Afghanistan, will they flood to the colours again?
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Brilliant!!!! neither of my BBC channels are working!!!
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No 66
We are at crosspurposes! I was not criticising BT for his comments; rather I was being slightly supportive.
And your inference in para 2 is correct!
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
70. Gaelstorm
Sorry I wasn't clear. I meant that I was agreeing with you. :-)
Hehe We're totally in agreement.
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phew!! returned just in time for the bain show. What a pathetic wee lamb, fight for jobs he says, couldn't fight his way out a wet paper bag. At one stage it looked like he was gonna get to walk right through it without any interuptions at all.
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67. Roll_On_2010
Good heavens! I missed that he called it England. Typical. We all know what people really think. It's really England and the other "regions" really don't count--except for cannon fodder. :-(
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Since the UK parliament became the laughing stock of Europe and lost the confidence of its electorate when the duck-house scandal broke, about 100 MPs have declared, as you will be well aware, that they will not seek re-election and 175 have apparently repaid about 300,000 of your English pounds that they had trousered in accordance with previously tolerated custom and usage, as is the way in Blighty.
Custom and usage, convention and tradition and an apathetic electorate so ignorant that it came as a shock to it to discover what had been going on perfectly openly for years in accordance with rules made up by MPs for MPs: government of the political class by the political class for the political class, entirely in keeping with the unwritten UK constitution, which, of course, is in fact written down in part on various bits of paper that you can track down if you keep at it for long enough.
Needless to say, a written constitution is no guarantee that the rascals won't be at it in some form or another, but at least in France, for instance, the independence of the judiciary and prosecutors is guaranteed by a constitution that anyone can look up easily, which is no doubt one reason why politicians there find themselves explaining themselves from time to time not merely before a committee of their peers or some such cosy arrangement but up before a judge in open court in the Palais de Justice, from which splendid edifice one former head of government has just exited after having an allegation against him judicially examined, practically bumping into a former head of state on his way in to account for various doings while he was mayor of Paris.
Everything out in the open and the accused given an opportunity to defend himself or herself in court rather than letting suspicion and media gossip rage indefinitely so as to undermine respect for the institutions of the state, as has been happening in Blighty to the amazement and amusement of an entire continent.
With the reputation of the institutions of the UK state now in tatters, not to mention the pathetic wreckage of the UK economy, it should be relatively straightforward for the Scottish National Party to make further progress, one would have thought, except, of course, for the small matter of the purveyor of UK state-sponsored journalism, whose position within the grand scheme of things would seem to be such that people are losing confidence in it too, as is only too apparent in this forum.
frankly_francophone
@ http://frankly.yolasite.com/
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#60
My father's father (from Dumfries) died in 1919 of the effects of trench gassing. My father was nine at the time and ended up with cousins in Armagh as his mother was made destitute.
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#67 & #74
It looks as though the Times has now edited this to say [Britain]. Note the parenthesis which suggests the change from the earlier 'England' reference?
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For anybody who missed it, Newsnight Scotland can be viewed here.
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Brian
Here's me thinking you pulled the plug !!!
#71
My posting went down the "tubes".Why?
#78 Roll-On-2010 just repeated what I inferred!
Why is the BBC(Scot)so sensitive to any comment,how the Labour man tried to answer questions on Questnight!!!
I'm an outsider,but bias is so overt!!!
Going to my blog.I wonder why you deleted it???
Like me,have you ever been on your backside???
Please advise when the Glasgow NE "bun fights"!are on the BBC
this coming week.
BBC don't be shy.Broadcast all!!!
Don't sit on your arse!!!
A wonderful week of Scottish Politics ahead !!!
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Brian, you say: Will this be enough? Will Sir Christopher Kelly's recommendations, if implemented, be enough to ease public anger over MPs expenses? I have a strong feeling it will be far from enough.
Now MPs want a £40,000 rise! As expenses purge is revealed, our dishonourable members look for compensation.
Grasping MPs demanded a huge pay rise last night after a crackdown on their expenses brought the Westminster gravy train to a halt.
In an astonishing show of contempt for voters, ministers and backbenchers complained that their £65,000-a-year salaries will not be enough to live on.
MPs should get a pay rise - but will lose second homes.
But he (Sir Christopher Kelly) backed off from action against those politicians whose actions sparked public fury - and signaled support for substantial pay rises for MPs in compensation for the tough new rules.
Well it appears that its back to the TROUGH as usual.
In fact next years GE will be more like First Snout Past The Trough (FSPTT) rather than the usual First Past The Post (FPTP).
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BBC has been strangely inaccessible or was it only from this side of the pond?
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Audit Scotland Public Services Report:
Watchdog: shake up services or face a £3bn hole.
Finance Secretary John Swinney said: “I welcome Audit Scotland’s report, which confirms the scale of the financial challenges I expect Scotland will face in the medium term as a result of budget cuts from the Westminster Government.
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#81 JRMacClure
Nope it looks like they are having trouble with their servers.
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I suspect that readers have noticed the BBC article explaining Scotland faces the largest budget cut since devolution. I simply had to express my outrage that Labour appears clueless that cuts are actually coming - it's no suprise Britain is bankrupt with that type of thinking!
"Scottish Labour's Andy Kerr called for the government to respond to the report by dropping projects such as the Referendum Bill and the Scottish Futures Trust."
Labour solution to their own mess is to stop the referendum bill and Scottish Futures Trust... How much does it actually cost to bring a white paper forward? Is PFI actually a better solution to building schools compared to SFT? Of course we have large amounts of data to show that PFI is unsustainable but it appears facts does not matter to Labour!
"Mr Kerr said: "Let's not forget that the Scottish Government has £600 million more to spend than last year. It is therefore particularly disappointing that John Swinney is bringing forward a budget that will actively harm the economy.
There is no justification for his decision to slash the housing budget or cancel the Glasgow Airport Rail Link."
Despite admitting that they've seen the report that claims we face the largest budget cut, Andy Kerr continues to practically ignore the issue altogether! If we have more money compared to last year, why is there a report claiming Scotland will see the largest budget cut since devolution?
Hello!! Mr Kerr, you can't have it both ways! You either believe Scotland has more money and should not look to cut projects or we are facing cuts and that will effect certain issues for Scotland!
"Perhaps worst of all the SNP are wasting resources on their own narrow Nationalist priorities; a National Conversation that nobody is listening to and preparing for a referendum the Scottish Parliament does not support."
The National Conversation was created before the Unionist launched their own version that ignores independence. It also appears that nobody is listening to their ideas since David Cameron has already ruled out borrowing powers which was the only real idea brought forward by Calman.
C'mon, we're surrounded by idiots. Do I have MUG written on my forehead? The one thing I hate in the world is someone assuming that I am an idiot that is prepared to believe every word coming out from their mouths.
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#84 Thomas_Porter
Thomas I fear you are correct the Lunatics have been running the Westmidden Asylum for 12 years, and yes they are taking us all for idiots!
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# 59 oldnat
So much for the Unionists argument that Scotland is better off in a strong Union so that we can have a say in world affairs when DC is thinking of bringing in UK wide laws that would marginalise our ability to partake in the affairs of one of the strongest Unions in the world. This is typical of the SE centralist attitude of the main UK political parties that the strongest argument they have to keep Scotland in the Union have decided that that same argument should not apply to themselves! If DC sticks by his word on this (which would be unusual for a politician) then he would have shot himself in the foot, regarding Scotland. It is now obvious to anyone who wants to be in the EU that Scotland being a part of the UK is not the best position to be in.
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Online Ed Here
Watched the Newsnight interview, Brewer poor.
Incredibly, we have a leading candidate who has faced not one question on his core campaign themes from any journalist [bar ponsonby].
That really is quite incredible.
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# 84 Thomas_Porter
Do I have MUG written on my forehead?
As far as the Westminster government is concerned the answer is yes, you do.
C'mon, we're surrounded by idiots.
These people in Westminster who are running our country (to the ground) are not idiots, but they think that we are. With the active backing of the glencampbelled media, here in Scotland, they think that they can con us into believing that we are being given more money, from Westminster, yet will have to make drastic cuts! The people of Scotland have been conned long enough, the problem that we have is that the Unionists, in Scotland, will still pretend that we are better off in the UK. We are better off out of it!
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You're not alone Thomas!
I now long for someone ,in good Glaswegian speak, to tell them all that they are a ....... lying bunch of ....... and they should all .... off and/or be jailed.
In fact I'd welcome a Question Time where someone did just that!
Backed by the rest of the audience.
Might not be PC , but it would be truthful and refreshing!
Sick to death of party line politicians and sycophantic interviewers letting them away with cretinous gobbledegook - never challenging obvious lies.
Now , how about a blog on the Arc of Insolvency Brian?
We appear to be in a poll position i.e LAST!
Notably Norway has a SURPLUS .
Do you wonder from whence that surplus came?
Wonder no more!
I will enlighten you!
It comes from a thing called an OIL FUND.
Whodathunkit?
Next time you have the opportunity to speak with the Secretary of State for Scotland , perhaps you could ask how we find ourselves WORSE off than the Arc of Insolvency?
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With regard minimum pricing of alclhol:
Professor David Nutt attacks ministers over ‘failure’ on alcohol.
“When I say alcohol is more dangerous than Ecstasy, cannabis and LSD, I mean it, and the council means it,” Professor Nutt said. “The Government has to wake up to this time bomb and the health risks of alcohol.
Across the political spectrum everyone knows that alcohol is the biggest killer.”
Professor Nutt said he felt that alcohol prices could be raised to triple the price at which some drinks were sold, with taxation the most obvious way of achieving this.
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Appears that the BBC Servers have rolled over again.
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Breaking News:
Gary McKinnon: change to law by peers could prevent repeat of extradition attempt
Peers are being urged to change the law to prevent a repeat of the extradition of computer hacker Gary McKinnon to America.
An amendment being discussed in the Lords today would allow judges to bar extradition if a significant part of the crime happened in the UK.
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#82 Roll_On_2010
Great quote from Swinney re Westmidden, strangely echoed by Angus Macleod's odd Wake up Scotland, this is going to hurt in the Thuderer, which for once barely rants at the wicked nats at all and closes with "How will Scots react as their Parliament starts to don a prudent, Presbyterian cloth? It could turn out to be devolution’s ultimate test."
He's certainly right there, although his reference to Scots having "been happy to be at the end of devolved largesse" suggests he doesn't intend to let go easily.
#84 Thomas_Porter
"Despite admitting that they've seen the report that claims we face the largest budget cut, Andy Kerr continues to practically ignore the issue altogether!"
Good post, and more stark realism from NuLab.
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BBC servers are definitely on something.....
Few comments:
David Cameron has just messed up (for want of stronger language). He's been sitting nicely in the polls and then he comes out with his statements yesterday. I watched him live, and it is so obvious he is trying to woo voters, but in the process has just upset the European diplomatic applecart. As I've said before, the EU is the problem for all political parties and will continue to do so.
The EU is growing and growing like a boil, and at some point it will burst. Cameron got one thing right yesterday when he said it was supposed to be trading bloc, but has turned into a political one.
MPs expenses. What on earth are they playing at? I thought you entered politics to serve the people. I expect the SNP to accept all proposals in full and not have any moaning minnies like the others do.
93. At 09:20am on 05 Nov 2009, Brownedov:
About time certain councils started their own pruning. Aberdeen City Council charges for about anything these days. For example, to remove a headboard they wished to charge 20 quid. I was up there on Sunday clearing a relatives house and took the thing back down here since my council does not charge!
Councils could also start by switching off the b****y lights in their buildings at night. Good for the environment as well.
90. At 07:12am on 05 Nov 2009, Roll_On_2010:
I'm not a drinker, and while I have no problems with people drinking there is nothing worse than, every week, the same roll call from the district courts with alcohol-related offences.
Minimum pricing should be tried, but tripling the price is too much and politically probably suicidal. Education is the key.
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All the links have suddenly gone red! Does anyone else see this or is it just on my computer?! Surely now there can be little doubt of the BBC's Labour bias!
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Phew, after getting a "page not found" 404 Error (and a nice reminder of the old test card screen!) when refreshing the Blether the links have reverted to Tory blue. No orange, yellow or green links as yet, yet more blatant Tory-Labour bias from the BBC, depending on the wind direction and Jupiter's position in Sagittarius.
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I notice that a certain Scottish newspaper is not allowing any comments on the appallingly biased article about the report by the Scottish Audit people on the Scottish Govt budget.....
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#93 Browndov
Maybe I am reading it the way I want to, but I read the quote: "Scots have been happy to be at the end of devolved largesse." as implying that the fundamental question is about the continuation of devolution itself. He seems to be saying that these sort of cuts will force us towards fiscal autonomy (ie we have been happy, meaning that we won't be happy in the future with the current devolution).
John
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The Thunderer's curious leader Kelly’s error bats on about how the report will attract the wrong sort of chaps and chapesses to the House of Cards. It manages to make the valid point that "the issue is not how to get cheaper politics; it is how to get better politics" but spectaluarly misses the point that it is the party and electoral systems as well as asymmetric devolution which have failed.
With the three Tweedles all competing for the "centre ground" in England that the plurality voting system makes a critical lottery and competing, as Widdecome put it, to show who has the hairiest shirt, the general election will make it even harder for the "establishment" media to hold the line in the other nations.
For now, in a single by-election, it may just work.
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Why did the BBC change the interviewer for the byelection candidates? That in itself obscures the fact that they are not applying the same criteria and rigor to all candidates.
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#94 Neil_Small147
"About time certain councils started their own pruning ... Good for the environment as well."
I don't disagree with a word in those two paras, Neil - and my commune doesn't charge for such things either, although it does insist on everyone separating their recyclable waste subject to fines. With more than two decades experience of the UN system both from without and within, I'm well aware that getting value for money is almost never the #1 priority for officials who spend others' money and seldom the #1 priority for the politicians who employ them.
It is still fair, however, to point out that some politicians do have better approaches than others, with NuLab having a worse record than most and both large unionist parties being more concerned about their position on the world stage than the concerns of their electorate. I saw no reference to either in Macleod's article linked to in my #93 but rather think that his throwaway "devolved largesse" indicates he's on the side of the "establishment".
#98 John__
"He seems to be saying that these sort of cuts will force us towards fiscal autonomy (ie we have been happy, meaning that we won't be happy in the future with the current devolution)."
You could be right, but short of a damascene conversion Macleod's previously staunchly unionist position argues against it. More likely a warning that Messrs. Cameron & Osborne will be cutting the pocket money of Messrs. Salmond & Swinney in order to be able to buy nice new shiny Tridents and cling on to the UK seat on the UN Security Council.
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#84: Thomas_Porter -
I would like Mr Kerr and anybody else who criticises the Scottish Futures Trust to put their criticism into context by firstly explaining two things - 1. What they think it is that the SFT does and 2. What they think is so wrong about there being a public body in Scotland doing what the SFT does.
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The thing I find surprising about all this is that MPs cannot make the connection between monkeys with rosettes and public anger at their troughing. Bluntly put the party system means the 400 or so MPs that are not on front benches play no part in politics other than to be lobby fodder and £65000 is more than adequate, £32000 would be closer to the "value" of their labours.
"But what about our constituency work?" you'll hear them cry. Social work in their constituency, a sort of local ombudsperson, say £32000 and if a permanent position not subject to changes at every election so much the better.
For the 250 or so MPs who actually "do" politics then £100k would probably be about right. However I still think the kite I flew some time ago about sending 2/3rds of the home after a GE would be better and cheaper.
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And don't forget that 2/3rds of the population are "served" by monkeys with rosettes, so it is little wonder that the public are angry.
Now what was the name of the NuLab candidate for Springburn-where-he-lives?
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PS to my #101
Just managed to watch FMQs live on holyrood.tv and I note that the FM shares my view on what Cameron & Osborne want to spend their money on.
Yet another excellent performance by the FM, with none of Gray, Goldie or Scott shining. Pity he's not put under more pressure by his lacklustre opposition, but until and unless they stop being controlled remotely from London that's unlikely to happen.
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#39, thats a really, really poor sentiment to express.
7 people die in a Taliban attck and you use it to promote the cause of Scottish Independence. Shame on you.
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#106 bingowings87
Whats wrong with JRMacClure expressing sympathy?
Of course there are Americans who don't think the British Government should be following US foreign policy slavishly and if they think that a Scottish Government wouldn't that's their opinion and they can say so. Or are you for censorship and group think?
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bingowings87 : How dare you. It was obvious from #39's comments that she was appalled by the deaths. She merely mused on the cause of the war.
It was a fair and reasonable point to make; that an independent Scotland could not have been misled into this atrocious war by the British Labour party.
I assume my previous sentence is the reason you posted. You, bingowings, and you alone are the only one attempting to make political capital out of the terrible,and unnecessary, deaths of these seven servicemen.
My thoughts, like those of many others, are with their families.
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106. bingowings87
No, you use the deaths to spurt out your disgust at any expression in favour of Scottish independence. Shame on you.
(Take a look, take a good look.)
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afternoon, #505 brownedov,
sorry but i disagree with your thoughts that the FM had an excellent performance, but it ain't his fault!
A. why make promises you can't always keep ? But more importantly
B. once again the opposition were woeful. our Parliament cannot or indeed will not move forward or improve whilst we have no effective or organised official opposition party.
For the governing party to govern effectively their must be an effective opposition which once again today was proven, we simply do not have it in Holyrood!
Sid
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Online Ed Here
106. At 12:43pm on 05 Nov 2009, bingowings87 wrote:
#39, thats a really, really poor sentiment to express.
7 people die in a Taliban attck and you use it to promote the cause of Scottish Independence. Shame on you.
Never, ever feel shame about highlighting these very needless deaths. If an independent Scotland can serve as a catalyst for change throughout this Island then it will be a very good thing.
Decent Scottish, English, Welsh and Northern Irish young men are dying because of Westminster's desire to play with the big boys.
Shame at demanding independence in order to curtail such policies is the last thing we should feel.
The only Government that should ever decide whether to send those living in Scotland to theatres of war is a Scottish Government.
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106. bingowings87
There is shame here but you need to seriously re-examine where it lies! Not with a valid opinion but with those who sent the boys to their deaths perhaps?
Unless we can never question, JR can have that view as she likes.
It is politicians who take these warring decisions and so questioning the structure of that establishment is as about as valid as it gets. In fact, were it a death in any other workplace, in Scotland, there would be an automatic fatal accidental inquiry.
Or we could just blindly follow.
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#105
I also watched FMQs and thought Gray's line of attack was completely bizarre. Whether or not the FM has been attending the Financial Services Advisory Group is about the most trivial topic he could have chosen.
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bingowings87:
#106.
I find it rather astonishing that you feel foreign policy should not be criticised while we discuss independence issues. You'll be suprised but some people in Scotland support independence to end 'the world power game'.
It should come as no suprise but the public hold many opinions on the Afganistan war. You should not criticise another persons expression simply because it holds political sway, the war was started by politicians afterall.
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JR is correct to post her statement.
What would be incorrect and out of order would be to criticise the soldiers, as one person on this blog did several months ago by referring soldiers as "murderers", and refused to retract the statement. (Not anyone who has been posting regularly might I just point out).
Wars are usually started by politicians these days. Occasionally there is the odd military coup but that again is for political purposes. Therefore it is correct to voice concerns and opinion to the rights and wrongs of conflict. The criticism was aimed squarely at the politicians.
One thing to remember is that service personnel in the UK are all volunteers, and are made well aware that they may be put into a combat situation regardless of their personal views on it. They carry out their duties in a professional manner and at times with great risk to themselves.
It would be interesting to see how many members of the Cabinet have actually served in the Armed Forces.
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And on Andy Kerr's recent statements, he is both right and wrong.
Wrong about SFT, since it has yet to be tried, and cannot surely be any worse than PFI.
Right about the National Conversation. The number of posts is dire and it is a complete waste of money. Not much money but still a waste.
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#105: Brownedove -
"Pity he's not put under more pressure by his lacklustre opposition, but until and unless they stop being controlled remotely from London that's unlikely to happen."
I think 'lacklustre's actually a pretty kind description of Auntie Annabel's performance today. Without wanting to use ageist expressions like 'senior moment' or 'dotage' - what was she thinking?
Putting a question to AS, asking him if he accepted the reality of budget restraints when - Hello! - the Scottish Government have already published a budget featuring cuts in several areas; she went sleepwalking into a bit of a doing. Shame, really, because normally her spot's far more enjoyable than Ian 'Shades of' Gray's.
And Richard Baker !? Quick question - how on earth did Ian Gray manage to re-shuffle his front bench team and still leave Richard 'I don't know what year it is' Baker in a job? Attacking Salmond over policing just gave Alex the chance to play Mr Punch and wallop Baker around the head with a big stick labelled '1,044 more policeman' while laughing uproariously.
There are areas where the SNP could be made to look vulnerable, with some vauguely insightful questioning. Chances of this hopeless shower finding those areas and landing any meaningful blows? About the same as the proverbial feline's in the bad place.
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#103 handclapping
"However I still think the kite I flew some time ago about sending 2/3rds of the home after a GE would be better and cheaper."
I fully agree that the Westmidden system is broken beyond repair and if they won't fix it, that's not a bad idea.
The L-Ds do at least want electoral reform, but none of the big three Tweedles want fundamental change, and nor do UKIP or the BNP who seem to merely want to join a club that perpetuates the myth of the "mother of parliaments" and the virtues of a non-constitution.
The USA realised that more than two centuries ago, and although their electoral system has grown rotten with antiquity their basic idea of separation of powers is still a better model, and has been proven to work well and relatively cheaply in London with a directly elected mayor and a separately elected assembly to scrutinise him.
In any event, ministers and their bag-carriers, in the main, make rotten constituency MPs. For example, The Public Whip tells us that in the current parly Duff Gordon has participated in only 158 votes out of 1144. Most of them get a ministerial salary as well, so they're all "double jobbing".
A much less awful system would have the FM/PM directly elected and make his or her own choices of officials, subject to the kind of public scrutiny the US Congress performs on their president's nominations. He or she would have less power than currently, since there would be no minions in the parly "whipping" the lobby fodder into line. That, of course, is why none of the party leaders want it.
Just think how many honourable members you'd need in the parly if their job was solely to scrutinise the executive and to make new law when needed. 200 for the UK, perhaps or about 50 for Scotland,
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Why is there an assumption by so many on here that in an independent Scotland there would have been no involvement in Iraqui and Afghanistani wars, or that there would have been a sovereign oil fund established (another old favourite)? Many of the politicians who made major decisions at Westminster over the years were Scottish, sitting for Scottish seats, and therefore elected by Scotsmen and women. Had Scotland been independent, these same politicians may well have been elected to a Scottish parliament, and may have made exactly the same decisions. I suspect that an independent Scotland would still have been a member of NATO like many other small European nations. History may have been different north of the border, but then again it may have been exactly the same. None of us can say, and to assume that in an independent Scotland your own particular views would have had primacy is, to say the least, opptimistic. There are after all a great many unionists who are opposed to the current wars, and I suspect that somewhere there are even supporters of Scottish independence who are in agreement with them. Things are rarely as black and white as some of the regular posters on here seem to infer.
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#115: Neil_Small147 -
"It would be interesting to see how many members of the Cabinet have actually served in the Armed Forces."
My immediate and gut reaction would be to say that none of them have - I will check and make sure but I'd be very surprised if I was wrong.
What would be 'intersting' - nah, hilarious - would be to imagine a crack commando unit, à la The A-Team, with Mandy as John 'Hannibal' Smith, Harriet Harperson as Templeton 'Faceman' Peck, Gordo as H.M.'Howling Mad' Murdock' and Ed Balls as B.A. Baracus
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A very interesting article from the Telegraph.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/edmundconway/6505670/North-Sea-oil-is-dragging-us-into-the-red.ht
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PickledPete:
#119.
If Scotland was independent the political system would be different. It's not reasonable to assume that an independent Scotland would have Gordon Brown at the helm, or other politicians that we current see at Westminster.
However Scotland is not capable of the types of military situations that Great Britain can handle. It would be difficult for Scotland to compete in the same manner on the world stage as Great Britain currently does by pretending to be a world power. It comes down to manpower at the end of the day and a population of 5 million can not compete with an equally developed neighbour who has a population of 50 million.
It does not matter about an oil fund. It's understandable that resources and profits from those resources will go further with a smaller population instead of a larger, but who really knows?
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119. PickledPete
We don't assume those things. We say a Scottish government would have then decided, not Westminster, as that's the point.
As for your point, those Scottish politicians, if unionist, were not then serving Scotland, but "Britain" and they cannot be both served with the same importance - as things are rarely as black and white as that.
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#119 PickledPete
How much of your Many of the politicians who made major decisions at Westminster over the years were Scottish, sitting for Scottish seats, and therefore elected by Scotsmen and women. is present perception and what is the truth, lets say since 1970 and the start of the oilflow?
AFAIK most of the politicians who made major decisions at Westminster over the years were English, sitting for English seats, and therefore elected by Englishmen and women.
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#119 PickledPete
"Things are rarely as black and white as some of the regular posters on here seem to infer."
You have a point, but on your two key assertions of NATO membership and oil fund establishment it would all have been about timing.
On NATO, independence between '49 and '89 would certainly have made NATO membership look attractive, yet the Irish Republic managed quite well staying out of it, so let's say it would have been 60/40.
On an oil fund, with even basket cases in the Middle East setting them up, it would have been heavily odds on that any Scottish government set one up the moment it started coming ashore.
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Re my #119 and the replies thereto (for which I thank one and all)
I think folks have missed my point, which may be my fault for poor expression of it. Politicians are often (mainly) that by nature, so I suspect that many of those from Scotland who serve (or have served) at Westminster over the years would have still chosen politics as a calling in an independent Scotland. They were voted into office by Scots, so it is not unreasonable to assume that they would also have received votes and achieved office in an independent Scottish election. It isn't then that much of a stretch of the imagination to see them behaving and voting in exactly the same way at Holyrood as they did at Westminster on some matters. To assume therefore that, had Scotland not been in the UK union, she would have been spared the wars currently raging in Afghanistan, as many here infer, is fanciful - she may have been, but it is by no means as certain as many posts suggest.
Holland is a small country too, Thomas_Porter, but she still has troops in Afghanistan, as do other small nations. How can we assume that Scotland would not? (I do take eye_write's point about where the decision on committing troops would have been made, but that was not my point - it is a moot point anyway for those kiled and injured). Checking the records of Westminster voting does not reveal a large objection by MPs from Scottish seats to entering these conflicts. Why should we assume that they would have done so if sitting at Holyrood? I can't see an independent Scotland embracing military neutrality in the same manner as Eire has done because that would fly in the face of her history; the proportion of her young people who choose military careers is evidence of that (athough I realise that others here will disagree). Just because individuals support independence for Scotland does not mean that they all share the same world views on other matters. Scottish involvement in the current conflicts is not a consequence of the UK union, it is a consequence of the decisions made by politicians, some of them voted into office by Scots. That is all I was trying to say.
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#112,
Well I guess it all boils down to whether you are in favour of the operations in Afghanistan. Some people are not. I am in favour. Whatever way, people are perfectly entitled to their view.
What I do object to, is the rather fanciful notion that soldiers in an Independent Scottish Army would not be involved in these situations. No one can possibly say what Scotland's position would be on NATO for example. Therefore, this terrible tragedy provides no argument either way for indpendence or not. To suggest that it does, as JRMcLure asserts in her #39, is morally wrong in my opinion.
For the record, I have no problem at all with "expressions in favour of Scottish Independence". I have learned a lot from some of the more measured comments and posters on here.
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I have no problem with our troops deployed in good causes about the world. The Irish for instance very readily provide troops for UN peacekeeping duties, as do very many other countries.
I do object our troops being deployed on a lie - or a large number of lies. As happened with the Iraq exercise previously we are beeing fed succesively different reasons why we are in Afghanistan which merely indicates to me that the real reason is the only one we are not being offered.
It is all, of course, about oil (and gas).
We are of course seen as invaders and the longer we are there the more obvious it will become to most people that our presence is the main reason for the activity of the Taliban, not a solution to it.
Just as the huge increase in the production of opium is a direct result of the need for the Taliban to raise money for arms.
The Taliban I am sure now represents the mind of the majority of Afghanistan, the pathetic so-called government is despised and our ill-equipped trops are the victims of political idiocy.
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