The strategic significance of Salmond's speech
It wasn't, perhaps, Alex Salmond's finest conference speech - although there were passages of passion and moments of dry humour such as his confession that he may have caused some of the internal party turbulence which the former leader Gordon Wilson charts in his new book.
Mr Wilson, sitting in the hall, smiled knowingly.
For all that, it may prove to be one of his most significant orations. For two reasons. Both concerned with forward looking strategy.
Firstly, as billed, Mr Salmond set out the details of the method by which he hopes to prise concessions from a future UK government in the event of a hung parliament at Westminster after the next General Election.
In essence, it boils down to budgetary concessions.
The SNP would seek to extract gains for Scotland in return for voting through the clauses of a Budget to be introduced by the next government at Westminster.
Why just the budget? Because the SNP doesn't usually vote on legislation which affects England only - and would generally pursue that tactic in the next Westminster Parliament.
For another, because Mr Salmond has indicated that big-ticket programmes such as Trident might be a demand too far, resulting in zero flexibility.
For a third, because the economy is all at the moment.
There are, of course, a number of obstacles in Mr Salmond's path.
The SNP is only in play at all if there is a hung or exceptionally tight Parliament, if they have enough MPs to make a difference and if other parties, such as the Liberal Democrats, don't cut a deal first.
However, that would be for the future.
This is primarily about tactics now, about ensuring that the SNP is not squeezed entirely out of a contest where the prime focus for the voters is choosing the British Prime Minister.
The second element which intrigued me in Alex Salmond's speech was the section on the economy more generally.
He declared that the creation of wealth - and its distribution - were important when times are good and imperative when times are tough.
He went on to argue that the way to address the problems confronting the public finances was to grow the economy.
To me, this sounded rather close to the previous Gordon Brown argument when the PM sought to contrast what he called Labour investment with Tory cuts.
It sounded as if he was suggesting that the SNP could obviate spending cuts.
However, SNP strategists insist that the party isn't disavowing the need for spending constraint.
They point to the cancellation of the Glasgow Airport Rail Link as evidence of the readiness to make tough choices.
Comments
Sign in or register to comment.
It sounded as if he was suggesting that the SNP could obviate spending cuts.
However, SNP strategists insist that the party isn't disavowing the need for spending constraint.
The need for cuts, the fact that cuts are being made, is quite clear. It sounds, rather, like you can't find anything else in Mr. Salmond's speech to criticise. Are you SERIOUSLY saying that Scottish MPs shouldn't look for the best advantage for Scotland financially? That they should tell Westminster, "We're in a recession so please cut more"?
You're joking, I'm sure.
From an American perspective, it was an extremely impressive speech setting forth exactly what needs to be set out from a SNP perspective: reasons to vote for them in a GE.
Complain about this comment
I was quite impressed with this Herald editorial:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/oct/17/scottish-politics-snp-conference
What is going on at the Herald? They've gone all rational and reasonable on us.
Complain about this comment
Online Ed Here
Pretty good speech by Salmond, positive and with vision and very clear references to Scotland and her people. A difference from the negative and extreme language used by both Labour and Conservatives.
It is clear that the BBC are pretty much obsessed with asking every SNP spokeperson [repeatedly] who they favour to form the next UK Government. Westminster dominates the BBC mindset and results in the kind of questions we heard asked - ad nauseum.
Glenn Campbell again seemed on the verge of losing it, he is fast becoming the focus of viewers attention and not his questions. His opening gambit that was ignored by Nicola Sturgeon was to say that the ovations for MacAskill and Sturgeon had been engineered by the FM - quite how Campbell knows this is anyones guess.
Jim Murphy's comments re: arc of insolvency were pretty much destroyed by one SNP address to conference, pity that the BBC never seem to ask Murphy any hard questions.
Never mind though, the move towards independence pretty much continues and the message from the SNP is clear as we near the next UK election; the only party with Scotland's interests at heart is the SNP.
Complain about this comment
Online Ed Here
Click here to read a transcript of Salmond's speech.
Complain about this comment
Online Ed Here
Just like to remind everyone that Edition 4 of Newsnet Scotland will be published later tonight.
Complain about this comment
" The strategic significance of Salmond's speech" Well Brian! dress it up as you will. The fact is it had no holding power (slacks without the braces) nor real substance, it was all about westminster and the no-role the SNP separatist play in the UK political arena.
Complain about this comment
To be fair to you, Brian, it was a good summing up of AS's strategy as opposed to the other two main UK parties which avoided giving the electorate any party strategies at all in the hope that the voters will go for the party that seems to be more believable. You know this and this is why you avoided any in depth analysis of either of the top two UK parties. Let's hope that the Tories or Labour slip up and reveal what exactly their spending plans are which is exactly what the SNP have offered by releasing their budget proposals. If only the rest of the parties were this forthcoming.
Complain about this comment
# 170 giggletheloneranger on Sun and Sandwiches
I know that I'm going to be sorry answering your question, Derek because you are just going to sucker me in...again. However, I'll put my money where my mouth is and answer your question and see if you are willing to answer one of mine.
do you want to continue as a party that supports Independence or a party that wants to take part in the UK political arena. What do the SNP mean by a hung parliament/ in terms of who would they support as the next Prime Minister?.
Firstly, the SNP are in the UK but striving to gain independence for Scotland. It is not a case of one or the other but trying to gain independence from the UK. I know that you know this and I also know that you are just trying to stir it. Secondly, it has already been made perfectly clear by the SNP what they mean by a 'hung' parliament and have also made it perfectly clear that they do not support any person who would be the next PM.
Now, here is a question for you, 'Did you watch the speech by AS?'
Complain about this comment
#8 gedguy
Why this thread?
" perfectly clear by the SNP what they mean by a 'hung' parliament and have also made it perfectly clear that they do not support any person who would be the next PM."
Does that mean the SNP dont want a next PM at-all?
Yes I did watch the speech!850m for a new hospital, 150 for new schools, About 1Bn of the SFT cost where is the rest? He said that the SNP favoured the NHS to GRAL in terms of having to cut costs however he didn't mention the 1Bn put into the council tax cut which could have funded his promise.The rest was just Westminster hype.
Complain about this comment
When the last drop of British Taxpayers oil is squeezed out of the seabed could we please have a referendum in England for independence from Scotland, which has been leeching from us since James I and now surprise, surprise, should there be a hung parliament, will demand an even more outrageous slice of the cake.
Complain about this comment
#9 Are you capable of understanding "they don't support any of them"?
That is a perfectly valid position.
And even I know who would be hurt by a council tax increase--the poor of Scotland. So the impoverished should fund the GARL? I think they'd disagree with that. As a matter of fact, it appears that the SNP does as well.
giggles, you've gotten yawningly boring.
Complain about this comment
Brian,
You take a not unreasonable line, except perhaps in comparing Salmond to Duff Gordon, but as BBC Scotland's political editor did you have no control over the scurrilous headline used to report the speech on this website?
The content of Bomber compassion 'like Gandhi' is also not unreasonable but to suggest that was the thrust of his speech and the use of single quotes for 'like Gandhi' when it is in fact a BBC opinion unsupported by so much as a quote from one of "the usual suspects" is misleading journalism at its worst.
Do ask your chums to try harder to honour the BBC charter, please.
Complain about this comment
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
#10 However, that would involve the Scots having to put up with your crying about being funded by the Scots for another half century--that seems a bit rough on them!
Not to mention the little matter of your stealing their oil.
Complain about this comment
I was looking for a video clip of Alex Salmond's speech, you know, like the ones that were online immediately after the other party leaders' speeches. Er - where is it, BBC Scotland? It's hours after the event. Honestly.
Complain about this comment
@10. Daily Mail --> That way
Complain about this comment
#10
Err, what?
The British Taxpayer's Oil? Not to sound like a broken old SNP Record, but "It's Scotland's Oil!"
I will, however, give you points for at least admitting that's the only reason you're interested in keeping Scotland in the Union.
Now, ever stopped to think that if we had the money from that oil for ourselves, we wouldn't be "leeching" from you any more?
Complain about this comment
Yet again, a complaint to BBC Scotland from the American. I did a search of the text of Mr. Salmond's speech for the wee pretendy quote in their headline. As one suspected, it doesn't exist.
Putting a quote in a headline that was never made. It would make William Randolph Hearst proud to see his lessons in misleading and spurious headlines continued. Yellow journalism at its best.
Complain about this comment
Online Ed Here
Sometimes the quotes from the opposition are so imbecilic that they ought to be published as proof of just how bad they actually are, take a look at these quotes:
Scottish Labour justice spokesman Richard Baker said: "Alex Salmond is losing his grip on reality. "I am staggered that anyone would mention Kenny MacAskill in the same sentence as Mahatma Gandhi.
"The bragging that has gone on at the SNP conference about the release of the Lockerbie bomber is stomach turning and will further damage Scotland's reputation."
Scottish Liberal Democrat leader Tavish Scott said: "Alex Salmond has sent a very clear message - vote SNP get Tory.
He went on: "In Scotland already if you vote Tory you get SNP.
"The two parties are now inextricably linked."
Yes, Tavish Scott's statement baffles me too whilst Baker appears not to have been told that Milliband has now confirmed that the Labour party supported the decision and that Labour MSP's and MP's privately acknowledged support to MacAskill.
The intellectual vaccuity of these two individuals is clear for all to see - they have nothing positive to offer.
Complain about this comment
18. JRMacClure
"Yet again, a complaint to BBC Scotland from the American. I did a search of the text of Mr. Salmond's speech for the wee pretendy quote in their headline. As one suspected, it doesn't exist."
Ah! The single quote! Where would 'incompetent and blatantly biased' journalists be without it?
Complain about this comment
The sad and honest truth is that many now! consider the SNP as the party that brings the conservatives to the fore.
The SNP need the tories to get their budgets through parliament and just like way back in 1974 the nats also light up the path for the tories to gain office.
The "TARTAN TORIES" never a more apt name!.
Complain about this comment
19. U14094468
"The intellectual vaccuity of these two individuals..."
You give them way too much credit.
But if the all-too-evident stupidity of these people was all there was to it that wouldn't be so bad. Brainless as they may be, they know that these things are untrue. So they are not just being stupid. They are deliberately lying in a malicious effort to deceive Scottish voters.
Complain about this comment
Of course I should have put 1979 and the start of the Thatcher years!.
eh?.
Complain about this comment
19. U14094468
"I am staggered that anyone would mention Kenny MacAskill in the same sentence as Mahatma Gandhi."
It wasn't even in the same paragraph! This buffoon is just parroting whatever garbage he has been fed by the British Labour Party's press office minions. You have to assume they don't like him much.
Complain about this comment
@21 "The sad and honest truth is that many now! consider the SNP as the party that brings the conservatives to the fore."
Absolutely nobody believes that, not you and not even the desperate Labour/Lib Dem spin doctors who incredibly are STILL trying to oppose the SNP through hysterical fearmongering rather than thinking of more popular policies.
Which would you rather have running Scotland in 2011, giggly? An independent Scottish government elected by the Scottish people, or a Tory government in Westminster elected by the people of England?
That's the straightforward choice facing the people of Scotland over the next 18 months. They can vote for Unionist parties and end up with the government chosen by England (ie a Tory one), or they can take their nation's fate in their own hands and elect an independent government for Scotland.
It's pretty simple:
Vote Tory - get Tory
Vote Labour - get Tory
Vote Lib Dem - get Tory
Vote Green - get Tory
Vote SNP - get whatever government Scotland chooses for itself
Complain about this comment
Still no video I can find on the BBC.
Meanwhile, STV's Salmond hails Justice Secretary for Lockerbie decision headline is at least less perjorative than the BBC.
It purports to have video, but gives me an "unavailable please check back soon" message. Inpats might check to see if STV have copied the BBC blocking of foreign IPs to us expats.
Complain about this comment
#20. Have the British (sorry but including the Scots here) changed their convention? Used to be that the British practice was to use single quotation marks to enclose quotations.
As far as I knew and I did a some checking, and every source I could easily check said the same, this is still the practice. Although, yes, I did notice the "inverted comma" question marks and assumed it would be their defence. I'm perfectly willing to argue that point.
Even in the US we tend to use those for quotes, except for quotes within quotes. The main difference in quotes in the US is our insane insistence in putting punctuation within the marks regardless of logic, a convention I tend not to follow because it gives me a headache, until and unless someone is paying me. Then I'll do it the "right way". ;-)
Complain about this comment
#25. Good, intelligent post. Of course, we all know better than to expect an intelligent response from giggles, but that is a fine analysis of the situation if you don't mind my saying so.
Complain about this comment
Re #21 Giggletheloneranger
'The SNP need the tories to get their budgets through parliament'
hmmm, remind me, how did the Scottish branch of Brit NuLabour vote on the Scottish budget at the second time of asking this year?
Vote SNP, get someone who will fight for Sctoland
Vote Labour, get financial meltdown so bad that your grandkids will be payting for it.
Complain about this comment
Its very interesting to note that the the conference was filled from top to bottom with many unable to get in. http://BellgroveBelle
Complain about this comment
Brian,
"He declared that the creation of wealth - and its distribution - were important when times are good and imperative when times are tough."
Good for him. It seems the SNP are now Scotlands' social democratic party of the worker.
But a comment if I may on the crux [as I percived it] of Salmonds message.
Firstly he was attempting to illustrate a fresh narrative for 2010 GE. This is obviously to avoid what Brian explains as the next PM election.
Luckily for Alex the Guaridan today seemed to believe that avoiding a GE on 'the next PM' is also London Labour strategy too.
It explains that they Labourites want an election on the issue of the state...big or small...so in this light Salmonds speech has pulled off a strategic masterstroke [hats off to big Eck]. He has successfully predicted this Labour shift towards a vote on the politics of ideology and has placed the SNP right at the heart of it...which is clearly why he explicitly talked of redistribution.
He has the advantage of being in Govt himself, and it is possible he could turn the GE in Scotland into a ideology debate on the state, but between the SNP & Labour on the one hand and the Tories on the other.
Salmonds speech has saved the SNP from the risk of being frozen out of a moving political agenda.
Cameron will welcome SNP participation in Scotland surely, it creates a headache for Labour- and compels the SNP to stretch their resources ever more thinly across Labour seats. Same for Labour [in reverse naturally].
So yes- a brilliant speech if your SNP and one worth admiring if your like me a Unionist.
Complain about this comment
"6. At 6:23pm on 17 Oct 2009, giggletheloneranger wrote:
" The strategic significance of Salmond's speech" Well Brian! dress it up as you will. The fact is it had no holding power (slacks without the braces) nor real substance, it was all about westminster and the no-role the SNP separatist play in the UK political arena."
I totally disagree the speach puts the SNP right back in the GE game up here following a couple of months of political drift. It was a strategically essential speech and Salmond pulled it off.
If every Labourite is as complacent as you then Im worrying for wee Des chances in Kille.
Complain about this comment
#31
Come on Dean, you must be delighted at that speech, I mean Cameron himself could have wrote it!the SNP are holding out for a very close election that would need the support of the nats to endorse a tory government in return for Scottish favour?.
It's just like history all over again?.
Complain about this comment
A reasonably predictable speech from Alec. A real missed opportunity to differentiate Scotland's approach to the future from the rest of the UK. The message seems to be Vote SNP and we will avoid cuts in public expenditure. Vote SNP we will grow the economy and maintain services. No detail on how, but that is not uncommon. If that doesn't work we will screw more money out of the English. A real fresh outlook?
Fantasy stuff. He lapsed back to the days when he was like Tavish, could promise anything because he never had the opportunity to deliver. It's different in Government and the pile of broken promises is already substantial, and will grow.
What we needed was some detail of how we could do things different, some Scottish solutions to Scottish problems, a reason to be different a reason to want more change. Some innovation. What we got was a bit of Gordon Brown thinking and a bit of David Cameron thinking.
No lessons learned, no road map to the new world. More of the same.
The bit about Gandhi was particularly cringe worthy and is best forgotten quickly.
Complain about this comment
21. giggletheloneranger
"The "TARTAN TORIES" never a more apt name!"
A historical curiosity. Nothing more. It is always a sign of desperation when the unionists start dragging such cobwebby artifices out of the closet.
When I was campaigning for the SNP (many years ago) I was called a "Tartan Trotskyist" almost as often as a "Tartan Tory". This reflects nothing more than the reliance of the shallow-minded on facile labels as an impoverished substitute for rational analysis.
Complain about this comment
34. At 8:50pm on 17 Oct 2009, northhighlander
Do you agree with me that Salmond has positioned himself well strategically to take the Labour votes in the GE? The 'avoid cuts' bunckle will play well in most Labour seats.
Complain about this comment
NorthHigherlander
I will agree that the "Like Gandhi" part was cringe, and it was way from being his usual best in terms of glam and show..but strategically it did reposition the SNP- and in the long term I think it may just be enough to call time on the drift.
Complain about this comment
Still no sign of a Scotland poll, but 2 new GB polls in the Sunday's show we could be close to the hung parliament which would at least give the SNP some clout and possibly even bring electoral reform nearer to reality:
ComRes for the Indy. Toplines: CON 40%, LAB 28%, L-D 19%
YouGov for the Thunderer. Toplines: CON 41%, LAB 30%, L-D 17%
Complain about this comment
I'm sorry but his talk about being in a position of power is utter rubbish.
Not the idea that they should strive for power or represent the Scottish people well, but the idea that they would actually be in a position to do anything.
In the last election SNP got 6 seats, the Liberal Democrats got 62! Which party is more likely to have an impact?
Salmond himself admitted that he's only expecting maybe 10 more seats (obviously from Labour), well 16 seats still isn't much is it.
When there is a minority government (as is likely) there will be many power battles, but I can't see the SNP having much to do with anything. And that's assuming an increase in SNP mp's!
The problem is always that the media but many politicians forget that when it comes to elections a lot of people don't vote for a party, they vote for a candidate. That is how we still have a Labour government with a majority. You can have a local MP who is great but happens to be with the wrong party (whatever that might be).
Complain about this comment
The slogan tact of party conferences!
We've got what it takes to be in this together!.
Do the nats and the tories share the same script writer.
Complain about this comment
SNP leaders can delude themselves as much as they want. Alex Salmond's gloating about how England might have to accept a Scottish party holding the balance of power shows just how puerile and pathetic they are.
They want independence - so what? You can have it as far as I am concerned. People in England give to the people of Scotland far more than we get back so why should it bother us in the least?
Take your independence and stop whining. Stop playing these ridiculous political games.
There is one good thing if Scotland does become independent. The Labour party will never again win a UK general election. That's good news for everyone.
Complain about this comment
34. northhighlander
"A reasonably predictable speech from Alec."
His name is Alex. And you should perhaps have read or listened to the speech before commenting. Take the opportunity now.
PoliticsHome | Transcripts | Alex Salmond's speech to SNP conference
Complain about this comment
If the SNP government was truly serious about growing the economy they would ring-fence the front-line public services and cut back on the over-staffed administration. This would result in a reduction in red tape, and an easing of the regulatory load on businesses. The Scottish Democratic Alliance have the right idea when they advocate that a leaner and better quality of government is required for Scotland.
Complain about this comment
37. deanthetory
"I will agree that the "Like Gandhi" part was cringe..."
There was no "Like Gandhi" part. It is amazing how pliable and suggestible some people can be. A couple of headlines in the gutter press and the lie is established as fact in their minds. Sad, really.
Complain about this comment
39. At 9:21pm on 17 Oct 2009, opaqueentity
10 SNP MPs? Thats being optimistic!
I reckon 7 or 8 [with the tories taking Perth & North Perthshire off them].
Complain about this comment
39. opaqueentity
"In the last election SNP got 6 seats, the Liberal Democrats got 62! Which party is more likely to have an impact?"
So what you advocate is a 3 party state where no minor party outwith those mainstream ideals has a say! Nuts is the only comment I can offer as I want DEMOCRACY not dictatorship.
Complain about this comment
41. At 9:34pm on 17 Oct 2009, glosterpowder wrote:
SNP leaders can delude themselves as much as they want. Alex Salmond's gloating about how England might have to accept a Scottish party holding the balance of power shows just how puerile and pathetic they are.
No it is a politician standing up for his electorate
They want independence - so what? You can have it as far as I am concerned. People in England give to the people of Scotland far more than we get back so why should it bother us in the least?
give concrete evidence for this please
Take your independence and stop whining. Stop playing these ridiculous political games.
If the Labour Party and the Tories keep doing politics and treating the country like they have done over the past 30 years then assuming they dont change the rules again, then Scotland will have its independence
There is one good thing if Scotland does become independent. The Labour party will never again win a UK general election. That's good news for everyone.
Your welcome to them , the only part of the country the Tories care about is the city of London anyway
Complain about this comment
39. opaqueentity
"When there is a minority government (as is likely) there will be many power battles, but I can't see the SNP having much to do with anything. And that's assuming an increase in SNP mp's!"
When there is a minority government every vote counts. When it comes down to trading for those votes among the various factions the permutations are endless. The only certainty is that having more SNP MPs is better for Scotland than having fewer.
Complain about this comment
#41 'There is one good thing if Scotland does become independent. The Labour party will never again win a UK general election. That's good news for everyone.'
Being a bit silly there aren't you. After 8 to 12 years of the torys and no-one apart from the rich is better off do you think people will not be thinking about voting for change. Now it might not be Labour but theres a good chance they will still be around.
Complain about this comment
#39 opaqueentity
"In the last election SNP got 6 seats, the Liberal Democrats got 62! Which party is more likely to have an impact?"
Having an impact doesn't mean it's one to the benefit of Scotland.
In any event, the L-Ds are not to be trusted having lost their last shred of Liberalism over Calman, shortly after losing their last shred of democracy over Lisbon.
Complain about this comment
here is the speech here with some idiot BBC commentator talking over it go to about 43 mins
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00nflps/Live_SNP_2009/
Complain about this comment
"the creation of wealth - and its distribution - were important when times are good and imperative when times are tough."
Quite right too. Labour achieved the opposite by transferring wealth from the people into the pockets of the banks, property developers and land owners. That's what the insane increase in house prices achieved.
Complain about this comment
I think the nats are relying on a lib/lab pact after the next GE , so the tories would possibly have to seek say an additional 12 seats or so to have a majority vote in westminster. That's what the nats are hoping for?. As I've already said this type of wishful thinking isn't new!.
The Gordon Wilson national party once again.
Complain about this comment
The Tories have spent a total of 35 years in power since the end of WW2.
They seem likely to start adding to that number from next year.
The truth is that England normally votes Tory.The shaky Labour governments of '64-'70 and '74-'79 only achieved office because of Scottish and Welsh votes.
The two postwar periods where Labour won power without the need of Scottish support were exceptional eras.The first, in 1945 of course, was
the groundswell of opinion from a war weary electorate in favour of major social reforms.
The second in 1997 when Labour had modernised themselves to the extent that they were nothing so much as a pale pink(and friendlier looking) version of Thatcher's Conservative Party.The Establishment could hardly believe their luck in the Blair/Mandelson project.These guys would do until the Tories could sort themselves out and resume normal service.
So here we are twelve and a half years later after an illegal war,the increase of the surveillance society,PFI,upgrading of Trident,drift on Europe,cutting of single parent benefits,the banking crisis and the apotheosis of marketing man driven follow the leader politics.
Yet Unionist politicians tell us 'vote SNP get Tories'.
Seen in the longer term view it must be clear that it's a case of
VOTE TO PRESERVE THE UNION,GET TORIES.
Complain about this comment
#51 romeplebian
"here is the speech here with some idiot BBC commentator talking over it go to about 43 mins"
iPlayer video is only available in dear old Blighty, I'm afraid, thanks to the BBC policy of IP apartheid.
Complain about this comment
#41 glosterpowder
"if Scotland does become independent. The Labour party will never again win a UK general election."
I'm often amused by the ignorance of English posters about their own political history.
There have only been 2/3 occasions in the 60s and 70s when Scots Labour MPs made the difference between England having a Tory or Labour Government. Normally, you elect Labour Governments all by your little selves - as you've done for the last 3 elections.
Complain about this comment
#45. At 9:39pm on 17 Oct 2009, deanthetory wrote:
39. At 9:21pm on 17 Oct 2009, opaqueentity
10 SNP MPs? Thats being optimistic!
I reckon 7 or 8 [with the tories taking Perth & North Perthshire off them].
Get real. No one with any credibility is predicting the SNP doing that poorly. Wishful thinking.
Complain about this comment
#41. Take your independence and stop whining. Stop playing these ridiculous political games.
Do you have ANY idea how unattractive it is when the English whinge, whine and cry?
You support Scots breaking away? Then tell your Tories to support it. Instead, every one of the major parties are unionist. Why? Because I suspect you're being a hypocrite and saying exactly the opposite of what you think AND the political parties know it.
Complain about this comment
54. At 10:01pm on 17 Oct 2009, mistydougie
"Seen in the longer term view it must be clear that it's a case of
VOTE TO PRESERVE THE UNION,GET TORIES."
You say that as if the Conservatives are something to fear and mistrust?
53. At 10:00pm on 17 Oct 2009, giggletheloneranger
The SNP need to remember what followed the 1974 electoral successes, a 1979 resurgent Tory vote in Scotland. I think the SNP are overestimating their capacity to hold P & NP and Angus.
Lets not forget 2005. That was another dreadful Scottish Tory performance, but in P & NP we still saw a 3.3% swing away from the SNP ...despite their being ahead of us in the Scottish polls nationally. We also saw a headline 5.5% increase there too. Now given that a repeat of 2005 and add the vote increase for the tories since then...your talking potentially 9% vote increase in P & NP. That would be enough to take it from the SNP pretty thoroughly.
Complain about this comment
Stick to ball games glosterpowder, you are obviously a little knowledgeable in that area.
I would leave Scotland and her politics to those who at least have spent time trying to educate themselves on the subject.
Might I suggest you do some research , try thr McCrone report for starters.
Complain about this comment
#56 oldnat
I thought you would duck out after that conference speech!
Zippo on education
Zilch on employment
Zero on Independence
Complain about this comment
55. Brownedov
Foxyproxy is your friend if you use Firefox Web Browser
Complain about this comment
#59
Dean!a more realistic weighted spread of about arounded 5% gain for the tories!.
Yip! the major parties will most probably need to form pacts (the devils will)
Complain about this comment
An unusually brief article today, Brian. I'll let you off given your impeccable coverage of today's action !
I was wondering, though. When you had the three SNP members sitting in a row, one of them (the lady who sat in the middle) repeatedly said "you" when talking about Labour.
Am I to assume that she was eluding to the royal "we" or that I am oblivious to your political affiliation.
Either way, I still think that you're a legend but I won't be voting Labour.
I also think the Welsh speaker (who's name momentarily escapes me) was a class apart from many of our own key-note speakers, which is saying something, given that I thought they were all very good.
Complain about this comment
Televised election debate plans in chaos as party leaders squabble
Reminds me of this enjoy.
Complain about this comment
#65 cynicalhighlander
Little children! yes! young Cameron, youn Osborne and grumpy Alec.
Song! Song! blue everybody knows one.
Complain about this comment
As some of your correspondents state, Mr Salmond, in his speech, seemed to suggest that Scotland should be somehow exempt from any spending cuts initiated by whoever comes to power following the General Election.
What he seems to neatly forget is that the present level of Government borrowing is due to the massive bail out of the Banks, principally RBS and what was HBOS - both effectively Scottish. If Scotland had been independent prior to the banking crisis where would Mr Salmond have raised the money to bail out RBS/HBOS or would he have let them "go to the wall"? His previous somewhat naive comment that the crisis would not have arisen misses the point that both Banks are really global concerns and not purely domestic.
The plain fact is that both RBS/HBOS,(now Lloyds) are still trading and safeguarding Scottish jobs is due to the present Westminster Government shoring them up with public funds.
Complain about this comment
61. At 10:23pm on 17 Oct 2009, giggletheloneranger
One of the weaknesses of that speech was it had nothing on education policy, or detailed policies beyond independence [they are a largely single issue party].
But the speech wasnt needed to outline policies, it wasnt to make Salmond go and do 'his thing'. Rather he had to outline the SNP 'message' for the GE- and he has repositioned his party after months of drifting.
The message from a tory perspective couldnt be better: Salmond has adopted a social - democratic policy, of 'further investment' and 'redistribution' [this translates to higher taxes on the wealthy]... Salmond has helped my tory lot back in the game in the Tayside, these former tory voters and liberal voters wont like the SNP becoming 'Labour lite'.
But it is valuable repositioning for the SNP - this will help them in Killie and Aberdeen North I bet. Seats they must win insidently if they wish to see 20 MPs.
Complain about this comment
67. At 10:37pm on 17 Oct 2009, invernevis
" Mr Salmond, in his speech, seemed to suggest that Scotland should be somehow exempt from any spending cuts initiated by whoever comes to power following the General Election."
Not all that credible of the SNP is it? But it will help my lot in the Tayside, so carry on McDuff!
Complain about this comment
61. giggletheloneranger
"Zippo on education"
Except,
"And delegates, when we came to office, 260,000 Scottish pupils were being taught in schools that were well past their best. That was a national disgrace and the legacy of a decade of Labour rule.
In our first two years, we have lifted 100,000 young Scots out of the worst condition schools. And through our partnership with Scotland's local authorities, I can reveal today that by the end of the next school year a further 30,000 Scottish children will be lifted out of the worst condition schools into first class accommodation.
The SNP – in our first term - cutting by half the number of pupils left in poor condition schools.
The SNP sorting out the legacy of eight wasted Labour-Liberal years.
Delegates, we are the party of Scotland's NHS and Scottish education."
Complain about this comment
61. giggletheloneranger
"Zilch on employment"
Except,
"And we are the party of jobs and recovery.
Since the first signs of recession, we have been working hard to protect and create jobs and support our communities.
We have been investing in education, in skills and in the industries that will deliver a more prosperous future.
Our economic recovery plan is in place and it is working.
And this government will work flat out to bring new jobs to Scotland.
And delegates, I am delighted to announce today the most recent RSA awards for 32 businesses across Scotland.
£19 million from the Scottish Government, supporting projects with planned investment of over £70 million.
Projects in Dundee, in Paisley, in Fife, in Annan, in Glasgow, in Girvan, in Edinburgh, LifeScan here in Inverness, in Fraserburgh, Stirling, Dalgety Bay, Glenrothes, Aberdeen and East Kilbride - projects with the potential to safeguard and create almost 2,500 jobs across Scotland.
Delegates, we've got what it takes to drive recovery for all of Scotland."
Complain about this comment
61. giggletheloneranger
"Zero on Independence "
Except,
"Independence is the key to Scotland's future and Scotland's success.
Delegates, there isn’t one single reason for independence. There are more than 5 million reasons why Scotland needs independence.
For the people many, who have waited a life time – for those, with a life time ahead. Each and every one, has a stake in the future only independence can bring.
A future where our nation enjoys equality and opportunity. With no limits on what, together, we can achieve.
Delegates, the people of Scotland will have their say.
And we will offer a new relationship on these isles, a relationship of equals, a new, modern partnership, a social union that cements the friendship and bonds that have been built up and frees Scotland to flourish.
A partnership that means we work together when that is right and take our own path when that is in Scotland's best interests.
Our own path towards prosperity - so jobs are not lost from Scotland because we can't compete.
Our own path towards greater security – with our natural wealth invested in an Energy Fund – providing strength, stability, and protection for future generations.
And our own path towards peace – free to remove the obscenity of Trident from Scotland's shores.
After ten years of devolution, the time is coming for this next step forward.
Because, Scotland has got what it takes – for independence."
Complain about this comment
42. Electric Hermit
Perhaps it is you that needs to read the speech again. The pathetic effort to justify the release of the terrorist convicted of the murder of 230 people at Lockerbie was couched around references to Gandhi. Only the most blinkered would fail to see what was tried.
Perhaps Wee Eck would do well to read some of Gandhi's views on the dangers of partition, something he deeply opposed. There are lessons to learned there.
The SNP should let the Lockerbie affair lie, not cast it up again and again. It is over, a difficult decision that was always going to divide, I accept that. However the gloating and glorification of today could only serve to further the hurt of the relatives, a little more respect would have been in order. But why let the feelings of such a group get in the way of party politics eh?
But today just added to the feeling of complete distaste over the handling of the whole affair.
Complain about this comment
#68
Dean! " The message from a tory perspective couldnt be better: Salmond has adopted a social - democratic policy, of 'further investment' and 'redistribution' [this translates to higher taxes on the wealthy]..."
But he still backed his tax cuts in the council tax? and the forth crossing, along with the parking?. tax cuts? Hmmmm!.
Complain about this comment
54. mistydougie
"VOTE TO PRESERVE THE UNION,GET TORIES. "
Correct.
Union or Independence? That's the only meaningful decision on the table.
Vote unionist and we keep going going with the same tired politics we have had since the the late 70's (the actors and costumes changed, little else did). There need be no malicious motivation by the union, it is a simple fact that Scotland's needs are subordinate to the will of the UK state.
In an independent Scotland, we are the subject of our own agenda - whatever we pursue we do with a view to maximising Scotland's benefit.
Union or Independence?
Let's go for independence, then we can do real politics for Scotland.
Complain about this comment
43. Localloun
Your point is well made, innovative ideas about doing the same for less is what government should be about now. However far from less government the SNP are all about more government, all centralised in Edinburgh.
Complain about this comment
67. invernevis
"As some of your correspondents state, Mr Salmond, in his speech, seemed to suggest that Scotland should be somehow exempt from any spending cuts initiated by whoever comes to power following the General Election."
No he didn't. He said the Scottish government should be deciding the priorities. The Scottish government is already taking funding cuts into account and has published its budget proposals to show what the effect of these would be. Have any of the unionist parties been this honest?
Complain about this comment
67. invernevis
and what's to say if they were operated in an Independent Scotland that the Scottish Financial Authorities would not have reined in idiotic banking practises, you know this goes way beyond just these two banking groups and nearly every banking group in the world was at it. As it stands the FSA the organisation neutered by the Labour Party and in part to the previous Conservative government let the dogs loose. Your example of calling RBS and HBOS as being scottish is about as close to the truth as calling BP british in terms of its base , scope of business and its reliance on the UK public
Complain about this comment
#7o
Electric!"And delegates, when we came to office, 260,000 Scottish pupils were being taught in schools that were well past their best. That was a national disgrace and the legacy of a decade of Labour rule."
All labour led commissioned new builds. Remember the SNP haven't commissioned one single new build yet?.
#71"Projects in Dundee, in Paisley, in Fife, in Annan, in Glasgow, in Girvan, in Edinburgh, LifeScan here in Inverness, in Fraserburgh, Stirling, Dalgety Bay, Glenrothes, Aberdeen and East Kilbride - projects with the potential to safeguard and create almost 2,500 jobs across Scotland" 200,000 new unemployed people over the last few months and this admin can only muster up 1% of new jobs? pa!
Complain about this comment
#72
Zero on Independence, and every thing on trying to get 20 new SNP MP's into westminster?.
Complain about this comment
73. northhighlander
"Perhaps Wee Eck would do well to read some of Gandhi's views on the dangers of partition, something he deeply opposed. There are lessons to learned there."
But he does First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
Complain about this comment
46. cynicalHighlander
Democracy is surely not about minority parties holding power. A say is fine and is a good thing, it strengthens democracy. However democracy is only served if the majority will prevails.
However Alec obviously is intoxicated with the unpolluted Highland air, 20 MP's is fantasy. However perfectly in keeping with the rest of his speech.
Complain about this comment
#51
I didn't understand why the BBC commentator spoke over Salmond at the beginnning of his speech but something similar happened at the Tory conference (?) and this was to do with the fact that intially a political video was played which would have been illegal, on impartiality grounds, to have been transmitted. I think Salmond's opening remarks were also of that nature.
If only the BBC were so scrupulous about impartiality 100% of the time.
Complain about this comment
67. invernevis
"What he seems to neatly forget is that the present level of Government borrowing is due to the massive bail out of the Banks, principally RBS and what was HBOS - both effectively Scottish."
Rubbish! It is a long, long time since these banks were "effectively Scottish". They are international financial institutions listed on the London Stock Exchange. An independent Scottish government, supposing it had allowed the regulatory failure in the first place, could have made very different choices. It could, for example, have nationalised the entire banking system in Scotland prior to the collapse.
But you are playing a game of "just supposing". And the trouble with people who start games of "just supposing" is that they don't like anyone else who plays doing any "supposing" of their own. They insist on stipulating what can be supposed so that the only suppositions allowed are those that lead to their desired conclusion.
Complain about this comment
#62 romeplebian
"Foxyproxy is your friend if you use Firefox Web Browser"
Thanks, but for the moment I'm stuck using MSIE professionally. I am tempted to set up a two-browser solution though, for personal stuff.
Complain about this comment
Some highlights from my day at Conference -
1. The delegate (I feel dreadful for having forgotten his name) who, in seconding a motion on racism said that he was very proud, as a child of Asian immigrants, to have grown up without ever thinking of himself as anything other than Scottish. A deeply profound and moving endorsement of the SNP's inclusive, civic nationalism.
2. Seeing Kenny MacCaskill leaving the venue and walking off on his own down Bishop Street as though he hadn't a care in the world.
3. Alec Salmond's 'V for Victory' sign to the audience while taking his applause. Alex would do well to avoid too many Churchill references though, given that he's looking more like the animated, insurance selling bulldog every year.
4. Nicola Sturgeon's introduction of Alex Salmond. "Alex", she began, "is not infallible." It transpires that, it's alleged, the First Minister tries to schedule speeches at Conference to make sure he's free to watch Hearts play - and had made a right ba**s up this year as Hearts v Aberdeen kicked off at the same time as
his speech.
5. The fact that Alex Salmond filled the main auditorium, filled
the cinema set aside as an overflow venue where more of the faithful watched a live stream of his speech and STILL, sadly, there were still people outside, unable to squeeze into either venue.
More on the contents of Alex's speech and the reactions to it from the venue, in
a moment.
Complain about this comment
68. deanthetory
"One of the weaknesses of that speech was it had nothing on education policy, or detailed policies beyond independence [they are a largely single issue party]."
The SNP is the party of government. And doing rather well. Which is hardly the mark of a "single issue party". Unionists want to pretend that the SNP don't have a range of policies because they don't want to draw attention to the success of those policies.
Complain about this comment
Had a quick scan around a few news sites. I think Salmond's reference to Ghandi is a mistake. They are all picking up on the comparison rather than the rest of the speech. Be interesting to see what the papers run with.
Complain about this comment
Hmmmm.
http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/1444076/
For the second year running, west coast boats face seeing their grounds left almost unviable by plans to slash 54% off the haddock quota, reduce the cod allowance by 25% and cut the prawn catch by 15%.
Complain about this comment
75. mrbfaethedee
Todays speech had absolutely no detail on Independence proposals, what we could do or achieve, no vision at all. More empty rhetoric. No new thinking. As someone else said before we seen what can only be described as a one trick pony.
Far from spelling out a vision for new politics Alec majored on the tired politics that got us in this mess. More public spending on bigger government, little thought about how to pay for it. A bit of labour, a bit of Cameron, but nothing new.
So from what was on offer today there will be no new politics, just more of the same. A wasted opportunity.
Complain about this comment
#67 invernevis
"The plain fact is that both RBS/HBOS,(now Lloyds) are still trading and safeguarding Scottish jobs is due to the present Westminster Government shoring them up with public funds."
That Westmidden government, of course, being the same one that was so greedy for the tax take from them that it "forgot" to regulate them.
And BTW before even questioning how "Scottish" those banks really are, have you calculated how many Scottish jobs Lord Mandy and Capn. Darling threw away by "waiving the rules" over the mergers, not to mention their curious Brianlike disnumeracy over DBS?
Complain about this comment
73. northhighlander
"The pathetic effort to justify the release of the terrorist convicted of the murder of 230 people at Lockerbie was couched around references to Gandhi."
There was no need to justify the decision. It was ultimately a decision for MacAskill alone. He is answerable only to his own conscience and, like any other elected representative, the voters. His conscience is clear. And he is content to live with the judgement of the electorate. It looks increasingly likely that the weight of any unfavourable judgement will fall on those who have sought to politicise the issue in such a disgustingly petty manner.
And there was no comparison of MacAskill with Ghandi. The fact that you and others have resorted to this transparent lie simply indicates the weakness of whatever it is you have in place of arguments.
Complain about this comment
Some thoughts on Alex Salmond's speech -
It was business-like; relatively short on emotional appeal and rhetoric. Alex gave
fairly straightforward, matter of fact assessment of the successes of his administration, to date, and their plans for the next year - plans which include winning the Glasgow NE by-election and then going forward as the only party
fit to speak for Scotland and the Scottish people at the Westminster GE
It was interesting to note; the Tories didn't even rate a mention.
It was good to hear; Alex's coded appeal to traditional, principled Labour voters. Abolishing nuclear weapons, social justice and support for the traditional, Aneurin Bevan ideal
of NHS health care provision - all things that Labour supporters have traditionally held dear - all policies that only the SNP and not Labour can deliver in Scotland. Dog whistle
policies are traditionally associated with negative campaigning but, at times today, Alex
as whistling a very traditional 'old' labour tune. And you can bet that
some Labour voters will have heard and heeded it.
More in a bit, hopefully.
Complain about this comment
76. northhighlander
"However far from less government the SNP are all about more government, all centralised in Edinburgh. "
A particularly silly comment given that the concordat with the local authorities is explicitly designed to counter the tendency to centralisation of earlier British Labour Party administrations.
Complain about this comment
73. northhighlander
"Perhaps it is you that needs to read the speech again. The pathetic effort to justify the release of the terrorist convicted of the murder of 230 people at Lockerbie was couched around references to Gandhi. Only the most blinkered would fail to see what was tried."
It was lead into by some mention of people associated with the concept of compassion - string them up! What was tried was to restate what they did and why, and show how it relates to what their principles are. They are perfectly entitled to do so, they are also correct to mention the support they had from significant figures - particularly in light of the disgraceful and one-sided treatment they got in the media. The only thing that is pathetic is your utter refusal to let any mention of it pass without treating us all to your own brand of self-righteous indignation!
"Perhaps Wee Eck would do well to read some of Gandhi's views on the dangers of partition, something he deeply opposed. There are lessons to learned there."
Oh yeah, well 'Wee Northhighlander' you clearly didn't learn them if you think that Gandhi's objections to partioning of India by Britain on the arbitrary criteria of religion has any actual relevance to large parts of a pre-existing nation seeking to remove itself from a union of nations! Get a clue!
"The SNP should let the Lockerbie affair lie, not cast it up again and again. It is over, a difficult decision that was always going to divide, I accept that. However the gloating and glorification of today could only serve to further the hurt of the relatives, a little more respect would have been in order. But why let the feelings of such a group get in the way of party politics eh?"
Their conference is exactly where they talk about the thins they've done and the things they will do - get over yourself.
cast it up again and again !?! What planet are you on? Didn't you notice we're in the process of coining a new word (glencambly) to describe the manner in which the other side kept getting it cast up again and again!
Quote for us the gloating!
Quote for us the glorification!
Why don't you let it lie?
"But today just added to the feeling of complete distaste over the handling of the whole affair. "
Enjoy your sad wee world.
Complain about this comment
80. giggletheloneranger
"Zero on Independence..."
Except the stuff that your prejudice prevents you from seeing.
"...and every thing on trying to get 20 new SNP MP's into westminster?"
The SNP is a political party, you fool. Getting elected is what they are all about.
Complain about this comment
Northhighlander @90
The Scottish Government's detailed proposals for Independence are being set
out in a series of National Conversation policy papers being published in the run up to the launch of the Referendum White Paper on St Andrews Day. They're available on the Scottish Government website. Try reading
some of them. They go into much more detail than Alex could have fitted in to a half hour speech.
Complain about this comment
73. northhighlander
"Perhaps Wee Eck would do well to read some of Gandhi's views on the dangers of partition, something he deeply opposed. There are lessons to learned there."
Is that what the voices are telling you? That the SNP plans to "partition" Scotland?
Complain about this comment
82. northhighlander
"Democracy is surely not about minority parties holding power. A say is fine and is a good thing, it strengthens democracy. However democracy is only served if the majority will prevails"
That is a dictatorship as all the MPs in England can swamp the Welsh, Scottish and Northern Irish MPs as we are dealing with countries not parties a total nonsense.
Complain about this comment
82. northhighlander
"However Alec obviously is intoxicated with the unpolluted Highland air..."
His name is Alex. What kind of impression do you suppose you make when you presume to pontificate on Scottish politics but don't even know the name of the First Minister?
Complain about this comment
#90. And if he had given details on independence you wouldn't have been criticising him for not talking about jobs and the economy? Sure you would have. LOL
Why should they go into that until there is a referendum to be held? Then there will be plenty of time for BOTH sides to make real points about which direction will be the best for the people of Scotland and for the people to make up their minds. Campaigning for independence when it isn't even yet on the ballot is a waste of time and effort.
You're big on the union. Hopefully when that happens you'll come up with some good arguments for your side instead of the "the sun will no longer rise" rhetoric that unionists are so given to.
You will have the chance to make your case just as the SNP and nationalists will.
Complain about this comment
88. Neil_Small147
"Be interesting to see what the papers run with."
They will run with whatever lie suits the unionist cause.
Complain about this comment
#94 Hermit
The concordat is nothing more than a tight noose around local governments neck,look what are you advocating here, hearsay for heresake! get real! Salmonds Independent Scotland hasn't moved out of the central belt from day one, the highlands and Islands of Scotland have been left too plead at Westminster for the retention of rocket based missiles to keep investment and employment in their areas and that's from the party that sings about anti wars and not in our name slogans, come on Electric, what in the hell did Salmond offer Scotland for tomorrow in his speech?
Complain about this comment
#96
Electric, the SNP is a non squirter! it's a side show for the weak, that distracts from the real tough political realism, give yourself a shake, dust down that law cape and remove your blinkers.
Your on the ropes, take the dive, I'll throw in your towel.
Complain about this comment
Northhighlander @34
While I'm at it - a lot of the detail of how the SNP will continue to grow the economy can be found in the third iteration of John Swinney's economic recovery plan due to be published later this month. Again it'll be available to read on the Scottish Government's website. Again, this isn't something Alex could fit into a half-hour speech. How simple do you think economic growth is to plan and implement? This isn't back of an envelope, easy catchphrase stuff - this is the serious business of competant government. If you want details - go and look them up in the policy documents, that's what policy documents are there for.
John Swinney's not like George Osbourne, in that he has policies. He's not like Gordon Brown or Alistair Darling in that he doesn't make policy up according to whatever's in the headlines of his breakfast newspaper. John Swinney (And by extension, the Scottish Government) are about the serious business of safeguarding Scotland's medium-term
economic future. Go and read the documents, it's all there.
Complain about this comment
90. northhighlander
"Todays speech had absolutely no detail on Independence proposals, what we could do or achieve, no vision at all. More empty rhetoric. No new thinking. As someone else said before we seen what can only be described as a one trick pony."
What detail do you want? They plan put forward a referendum for the people of Scotland on the issue. Please tell me the things you want detailed in these independence proposals. The vision for what we could do as an independent nation has already been pointed out on these very pages by ElectricHermit, but I'll refer you to the end of the speech you claim to have read, but apparently without comprehension. Read the end of the speech and then tell me how it is not the presentation of a vision for Scotland (note: not 'northhighlander's vision', which I'm guessing is your actual criteria). You just think it's 'empty rhetoric' because you don't agree, but present a cliche in place of an argument. Hey, 'one trick pony', there's another cliche, and you didn't even bother selecting for yourself - come an man, make an effort to show some evidence to support yourself.
(btw - rhetoric is how we use language to persuade, and given that it is a pillar of the trivium I would have thought that someone who has claimed to have so much concern for the state of our eduction system would have appreciated the FM demonstrating it so well).
Far from spelling out a vision for new politics Alec majored on the tired politics that got us in this mess. More public spending on bigger government, little thought about how to pay for it. A bit of labour, a bit of Cameron, but nothing new."
Oh it's very early days in the GE campaign, and there's plenty time for AS to tell you all about the benefits of more SNP success, the primary aim at the moment is to use precious media minutes to let the unionist parties and media know they won't be painted out of the GE as a sideshow. Job well done, if you've the eyes to see it.
"So from what was on offer today there will be no new politics, just more of the same. A wasted opportunity."
eh?
independence = more of the same
continuing to vote of the indentikit unionist parties = shiny and new
Interesting stuff northhighlander ;)
Complain about this comment
82. northhighlander
"Democracy is surely not about minority parties holding power. A say is fine and is a good thing, it strengthens democracy. However democracy is only served if the majority will prevails."
Have you never heard of the tyranny of the majority? A true democracy seeks to reduce inequity and discrepancies in power, not enable and amplify them.
Complain about this comment
103. giggletheloneranger
"The concordat is nothing more than a tight noose around local governments neck..."
This is getting to be embarrassing. It is glaringly obvious that you know nothing of the concordat. Just as you were shooting off your mouth about Salmond's speech when it was only too evident that you had not heard it or read it.
This is the arrogance of the unionists. This is what has brought down the British Labour Party (North Britain Branch). They hold the electorate with such contempt that they don't think they have to bother with such niceties as facts. Despite the defeats they have suffered at the hands of the SNP they still believe they can take the Scottish people for granted. They have learned nothing. And because they cannot learn, they are doomed.
Complain about this comment
104. giggletheloneranger
"it's a side show for the weak, that distracts from the real tough political realism,"
Watch out - you're almost channeling MagisterIlluminatus ;)
Complain about this comment
86. At 11:06pm on 17 Oct 2009, Cassiel1991 wrote:
Some highlights from my day at Conference -
12. Seeing Kenny MacCaskill leaving the venue and walking off on his own down Bishop Street as though he hadn't a care in the world.
He was probably looking for somewhere to have a quiet pint!
n the Ghandigate stuff, as it might end up being called. Alex did not make any specific comparisons, but the implication was a bit too obvious. Adam Boulton has picked up on it, but without going to extremes like other media outlets. However, it spoils the impact of the speech a little as this is what the media are now highlighting.
Complain about this comment
104. giggletheloneranger
"the SNP is a non squirter! it's a side show for the weak, that distracts from the real tough political realism"
Once again, the blatant contempt for for Scotland's voters. And you actually imagine denigrating them in this way will bring them back under the thumb of the Tory/BLP alliance.
Complain about this comment
Deanthetory @68
Translates to higher taxes for the wealthy -
1. It's obviously escaped your notice that, under the unfair Devolution Settlement, the Scottish Government can't levy
taxes only vary the level of income tax. You also obviously weren't listening to Alex's speech
otherwise you would have noticed there was no mention of varying income tax in it, whatsoever.
Complain about this comment
#88. Neil_Small147
After giving it some thought, I believe that you're mistaken that the reference to Gandhi (it was not a comparison) and making MacAskill's decision to some degree of a highlight of the conference was a mistake.
The SNP has always made it clear they would stand behind the decision which has garnered them a fair amount of respect. Mr. Salmond made the best argument that could be made for it--that the cycle of violence and revenge needs to be ended and took the high road.
It is a rather stark comparison to the politicization of the other parties. People who would be offended by this were already not likely to vote for them anyway. It simply underlines the SNP viewpoint and that they are willing to stand the guff when they have to take an unpopular action.
However, much the news organizations may hate this fact, by criticizing the comparison they are also MAKING the comparison for the SNP. Oops! A comparsion the SNP didn't make but BBC did. Really the SNP should thank the BBC. Funny how often skewing the news comes back to bite you on the arse. Many news organziations, BBC included, tried to hide the fact that such an argument could be made. Now they made headlines out of it. =)
Complain about this comment
104. giggletheloneranger
"Your on the ropes, take the dive, I'll throw in your towel."
Labour's on the ropes, take the plunge, spread your towel on the sunny beach of independence.
Complain about this comment
JRMacClone/ deanthetory
What a lot of tosh you dribble !!!
Name one member in your parties who is honest
and clean on expenses !!!
Can you name them,or does your central office
condone all their claims ???
Complain about this comment
Online Ed Here
Cassiel1991, thank you for your reports on the conference, more informative than anything the BBC have provided.
I agree with your views on Salmond's speech, much to attract traditional Labour voters especially the highlighting of the Health Service and Trident.
Thanks also for the info on the crowds, pity though that so many could not get into either venue.
The positive message and inclusive rhetoric contrasts with the language of the unionists, Alex called them insular today. The comments from 'giggle' and 'north' mirror those of Unionist politicians - it is unlikely to draw people to them and may even repel many.
They certainly won't be converting any current independence supporters to Unionism. I've said before, they resemble football fans who's team is just not up to it so they compensate for this lack of success by goading and chanting insults at the opposition - it's all they have left.
Complain about this comment
My last thoughts on Alex Salmond's speech before I go to bed, tired but happy.
It was a speech, nothing more. Not a manifesto, not a draft referendum bill, not
a policy document. The SNP has produced all these things - on independence and
more because the SNP now operates in the adult world of grown up, competent, responsible government. Opposition parties can sneer and fib and call the SNP names all they like - that's what keeps them in opposition.
Today's speech was two things - an account of this Government's successes to date
and a warning to the Labour Party - to say, your days as a party of government in Scotland are over. The proof will be there for all to see in Springburn on November 12th.
It's time.
Complain about this comment
Giggle @104
Non squirter?
I can't work out if you're trying to say non starter or non sequitur. Ironic because your posts are usually both.
Complain about this comment
Online Ed Here
Newsnet Scotland edition 4 has just been published.
Pity I just missed the story that Stephen House, the Chief Constable of Strathclyde Police has virtually destroyed Labour's Glasgow North East candidate Willie Bain's key campaign strategy on knife crime.
Automatic jail terms for carrying a knife would cripple our jails says House - it's unworkable.
Complain about this comment
#117 crass
It's time! it's chico time and mickey has the big hand face down!
Do you really go too those meaningless SNP conferences, where whisky and fag-ends are in endless supply?.
Just giving it a bit of top off mrbfaethedee! LoL sunny side up!.
Complain about this comment
113. JRMacClure
I think you have the right of it JRMacClure. The SNP are clearly aware that they can extract some advantage out of the news media's consistent negative framing of them. There are few people who are close to sympathetic to the SNP that will not be increasingly aware that the SNP appear to be getting a bit of a raw deal.
Complain about this comment
Online Ed Here
I think the SNP will do well to refuse to comment on this.
Click Here
Complain about this comment
#122. Yikes. There is no way I could express a response to that which would get past the moderators. Talk about judging one by the company one keeps, I guess that says it.
It may well help even more energize the SNP and possible SNP allies.
You're right. No public comment is probably best on that.
Complain about this comment
122. U14094468
Seems the unionists are bringing the loonies out of the woodwork.
Complain about this comment
#115. At 00:09am on 18 Oct 2009, spinspamspun
Oops. Might want to pay more attention. I don't, as we say in this part of the world, "have a dog in this fight".
I happen to be an American and certainly not a member of any of your political parties.
Makes you look a little foolish.
Complain about this comment
Re 122
Oh I don't know, I sincerely hope everyone knows which side that particular organisation are on and I can't see any of the unionists drawing attention to it.
With enemies like those, who needs friends?
Complain about this comment
115. At 00:09am on 18 Oct 2009, spinspamspun wrote:
JRMacClone/ deanthetory
"What a lot of tosh you dribble !!!"
What part of my comments do you disagree with? Was it my observation that Salmond has rather brilliantly repositioned the SNP so as to make them more relevant in the General Election climate? I thought the strategy aspect of the speech proved rather successful. Do you disagree, if so can I ask why?
"Name one member in your parties who is honest
and clean on expenses !!!"
Sure, Anne Widdicome. I have hundreds of names, but you only asked for one.
"Can you name them,or does your central office
condone all their claims ???"
David Cameron does not approve of excessive claiming on expenses. This is why he has now threatened that any MP refusing to pay back money at the request of Legg will be expelled from the party.
I think he has led the political classes towards reform, and chastisement for wrongdoers- but then I would day that I suppose.
And I can assure you that Party HQ does not control my editorial content, I'm too much of a critic: believing in fiscal autonomy as I do.
Complain about this comment
This sort of speech could have been made any time in the 1920s! Since then, Globalisation whether good or evil has made Scottish independence an irrelevance. Whether or not Mr Salmond is aware, with fuel, industry, transport, water and banking at the command of our foreign competitors, the UK is not actually independent. If Salmond were to acquire all those labour seats, we would get a Tory Government at Westminster - they would not support independence. The Scottish people in general do not have any enthusiasm for independence. He might as well be demanding independence for Bethnal Green - his country's opinions would count as much in world affairs. It's clear that all Alex Salmond wants is power even if he gets a Pyrrhic victory by turning Scotland into a remote wasteland of country clubs and golf-courses.
Complain about this comment
73. northhighlander
"Perhaps Wee Eck would do well to read some of Gandhi's views on the dangers of partition, something he deeply opposed. There are lessons to learned there."
Gandhi was opposed to the artificial partition of India along religious sectarian lines. Likewise any sensible person would be against the artificial division of Scotland along religious sectarian lines.
On the other hand Gandhi supported the struggle of the Burmese for separation from the rest of British India and an independent Burma, calling the British incorporation of Burma into the Raj an act of British imperialism which should be resisted.
Mahatma Gandhi would have been wise enough to see the correct analogy with modern Scotland - even if you're not.
Complain about this comment
#129
Frequent, how could you possibly know what Gandhi would have thought or not thought about modern Scotland?
Jeez! it's just runs off the tip of your tongue.
Complain about this comment
Biased_Beeb,
#128.
"This sort of speech could have been made any time in the 1920s! Since then, Globalisation whether good or evil has made Scottish independence an irrelevance."
This is an opinion, your opinion does not represent fact. The issue surrounding independence is not simply in order for Edinburgh to gain powers which are currently reserved, it's about direction and perhaps people feel that in a changing world the British Government is not changing fast enough - alas the Scottish Parliament can be the centre of our democracy in an uncertain world!
"Whether or not Mr Salmond is aware, with fuel, industry, transport, water and banking at the command of our foreign competitors, the UK is not actually independent."
Do you believe the state should nationalise the above industry's in order to be independent?
"If Salmond were to acquire all those labour seats, we would get a Tory Government at Westminster - they would not support independence."
I'd be quite shocked for the Conservative and 'Unionist' party to support independence too.
"The Scottish people in general do not have any enthusiasm for independence."
Have I missed something? I did not realise we elected one individuals who can speak for the people of Scotland, or have I missed the referendum?
"He might as well be demanding independence for Bethnal Green - his country's opinions would count as much in world affairs."
His country? Thanks for describing Scotland as some foreign entity, I suspect your not from Scotland; hence your opinion is quite typical infested with ignorance.
In the union or not, our opinions are still our opinions and countries will not be swayed simply because the title of our country is Scotland or United Kingdom. The arrogance of some is quite astonishing.
"It's clear that all Alex Salmond wants is power even if he gets a Pyrrhic victory by turning Scotland into a remote wasteland of country clubs and golf-courses."
I see, are you even going to take part in reasonable discussions or continue writing comments based on nothing more apart from your opinion?
Complain about this comment
130. giggletheloneranger
"...how could you possibly know what Gandhi would have thought or not thought about modern Scotland?"
The Mahatma's views are no mystery to the moderately well-read.
Complain about this comment
#73. It does run off his tongue doesn't it?
Amazing how that happens when someone knows what he's talking about. Might want to try it sometime.
Amazing how anyone can say that Gandhi was against independence, a man who spent a good part of his life struggling for it for his country. In order to compare independence for Scotland to partition--Scotland would have to be a province rather than a nation.
Is that what you're saying?
Complain about this comment
Online Ed @122
One tangential but related point - interested parties might like to note that the English Defense League have applied for a
permit to march in Glasgow on November 14th. Google is your friend
if you need/want further information.
Complain about this comment
Oh, dearie me. I do believe I took the Lord's name in vain when I told the bloke from comment #10 to get off his duff and fight for an English referendum if that was what he wants. I do get tired of the constantly whinging about how hard done by the English are. I have nothing against them at all but it is not an attractive trait.
Complain about this comment
Biased-Beeb @128
Wasteland of country clubs and golf courses -
At no time has Alex Salmond suggested that independence would transform Scotland into the English Home Counties.
Complain about this comment
Online Ed @122
Can I just express my fond, entirely personal, hope that Labour's new allies go campaigning in their bowler hats and sashes?
Complain about this comment
Actually, quite a good speech by Alex Salmond with a surprisingly astute analysis by Dean and some interesting comments by Cassie etc. who was a delegate at Conference.
Of particular interest was Kenny MacAskill walking down Bishop Street without a care in the world. My advice to Alex would be to watch your back. Kenny's support in the Conference Hall would suggest a tilt at the leadership at some time in the future.
As for the Ghandi reference: any speech will contain a comment which might be described as a hostage to fortune. The question is how successful you are at minimising the fallout. Only time will tell.
Complain about this comment
#128 Biased_Beeb
"Whether or not Mr Salmond is aware, with fuel, industry, transport, water and banking at the command of our foreign competitors, the UK is not actually independent."
So what's your point? If the UK is not independent, how much less so is Scotland shackled to a festering Westmidden unwilling to embrace democracy?
"If Salmond were to acquire all those labour seats, we would get a Tory Government at Westminster - they would not support independence."
Granted that the two big unionist Tweedles are barely a cigarette paper apart economically, at least the "official" unionists are marginally less authoritarian than the NuLab "provos". The difference for Scotland is that without any democratic legitimacy at all to rule Scotland, the "officials" would struggle to hold the line.
"The Scottish people in general do not have any enthusiasm for independence."
Where's your evidence for that assertion? Perhaps you'd care to explain why all recent opinion polls show that the Scottish people want a referendum on the subject?
Are you perhaps suggesting that referendums and democratic reform are unimportant because the new world order will decide for us all anyway? If so, don't expect us to accept your view without evidence.
Complain about this comment
#138 MagisterIlluminatus
Fair comment. Given your interest in things Northern Irish, what's your take on the news from the Orange Order?
Personally, I can't see it playing at all well in Glasgow NE, but in the general election I suppose it will put boots on the streets that the unionist Tweedles no longer have in the way of membership. Whether it will win them back many of their absent friends is another matter.
Complain about this comment
139. Brownedov
"Are you perhaps suggesting that referendums and democratic reform are unimportant because the new world order will decide for us all anyway? If so, don't expect us to accept your view without evidence."
Nor should s/he expect others to emulate his/her supine capitulation to this "new world order". Some of us still hold that democracy is worth fighting for.
Complain about this comment
Splendid speech. Even more embarrassing than I was anticipating. In my view, Alex Salmond is one of the best arguments there is for retaining the Union.
Complain about this comment
I'm going to say something potentially controversial here.
I would welcome a Tory victory in the GE, not for the obvious reasons that it may play into the the SNPs hands in Scotland.
If I look back on recent UK history, it appears that a pattern emerges. Put simply, it is this; Labour get in and make a mess of the economy - Torys get in a sort out the mess, (then get mired in sleaze and run out of steam).
Now, I happen to view Scotland's progress in the context of the British Isles; I believe that the English and Welsh have been lied to over the decades by a succession of Governments who have refused to tackle some fundamental truths; i.e. the economy of England/Wales has been a basket case. These successive governments have used Scotland's wealth to shore up the economies of England and Wales.
An independent Scotland will assist the other parts of these islands to start taking some bad tasting medicine, but it will be for the greater good in the long term.
The English and Welsh are good people and simply deserve better than what they have been receiving from successive Westminster governments.
In an English/Welsh context therefore; a Tory victory will assist them remodel their economies.
Unionists should take note; show some compassion and support independence for Scotland, as it will benefit the rest of the people of the British Isles. They are your neighbours and actually need a favour!
Complain about this comment
#141 Electric Hermit
"Nor should s/he expect others to emulate his/her supine capitulation to this "new world order". Some of us still hold that democracy is worth fighting for."
Quite so, and count me in with the "us".
However, I'm always ready to listen to someone who can support an argument with facts. In Biased_Beeb's case, I confess that I don't quite understand what the argument itself is, and was seeking clarification as well as evidence.
Complain about this comment
142. Joppa-man
"Splendid speech. Even more embarrassing than I was anticipating."
I should think you would be embarrassed, being reminded of how the British Labour Party has failed and betrayed Scotland and the atrocious behaviour of both the BLP and their Tory allies in Holyrood.
Complain about this comment
Salmond live on Sky News now - http://news.sky.com/skynews/
Complain about this comment
122. At 00:40am on 18 Oct 2009, On Line Ed wrote
I think the lodges will do well to keep their noses out of it, trying to save their reputations as they are.
And on that note. I'd be glad to see the back of the monarchy, spreading class intolerance and snobbery among us as it does. Not healthy!
=========================================
As for the webchat with BT and AS? The body language of Mr taylor was cringe worthy, he knew the points he was trying to push were the QNats bingo list items, it was really quite dire. He must know it himself, he certainly seemed to, writhing about so uncomfortably looking, and rubbing his nose at regular intervals, blood preasure climbing high. The woman from liverpool....oh my god, of all the questions from all the people in the country, he rattles out the oldest and most famous of them all. "We're a bunch of spongers and can't we see it". Yeah, fair balanced journalism...not!...I'm afraid to say.
Complain about this comment
140. Brownedov
All political parties have been losing a mass membership base for a very long time with the exception of the SNP. It is in this context that I will answer your question. The SNP's appeal is that of the heart, not the head and, for the moment, is very appealing.
Given that the Unionist parties don't have that same appeal to the heart, they have some difficulty putting a large number of activists on the street. It seems the me, therefore, that if any organisation is offering to put a large number of people on the street to support an individual candidate's Unionist position, that candidate is likely to take up the offer without, perhaps wisely, knowing or caring what organisation they actually represent. This would fall with the confines of plausible deniability.
Complain about this comment
What price Independence eh! Its the same for Wales and Ireland. They chose, like Scotland Independence but still want the English Parliament to support their Country.
They don't want England to vote on Scottish matters but are quite happy to dictate what happens in Enland if there's a hung parliament.
At a price that is.................
What's wrong with having a United Kingdom! I'd gladly sign up to a party that delivers free resedential care for the elderly and free University Places.
Complain about this comment
Online Ed Here
Readers of Newsnet Scotland Edition 4 will note that we have considered the dealing of Jim Devine to be important enough to feature in this months edition.
Strange though that the fact that metropolitan officers have visited Scotland in order to interview witnesses has been suppressed by the Scottish media. Indeed The Sunday Herald carry the story but bury it inside another - complete with a headline that refers to only one fifth of the article.
The article is not on their front page nor is it a link from their front page, instead tucked away here. I am quite sure that Paul Hutcheon will be less than pleased by this editorial decision given that Torcuil Crichton's article from last week proclaiming that Devine had been cleared featured very prominently.
I also note that The Sunday Herald have adopted a similar tactic to that of The Sunday Mail by pretty much ignoring the substance of yesterday's speech by Alex Salmond and instead misrepresenting his comments on the values of Mahatma Ghandi. Surely informed analysis could have been provided instead of some low brow politicking.
Cassiel1991 - Thanks for the heads up at comment 134 on the march application.
Complain about this comment
#142 Joppa-man
"Splendid speech. Even more embarrassing than I was anticipating. In my view, Alex Salmond is one of the best arguments there is for retaining the Union."
We clearly disagree, but if you're correct is it not rather odd that the whole speech is still not available in video on this website?
Given the BBC's unionist agenda, you'd have thought they'd want to promote it as much as they can, wouldn't you?
Complain about this comment
144. Brownedov
"I confess that I don't quite understand what the argument itself is"
That may be because it is not so much an argument as an emotional rant. It is an example of a curious form of doublethink that characterises the utterances of the less reflective unionist mouthpieces. A form of doublethink in which the very concept of nationhood as applied to Scotland is markedly different from that concept as applied to any other nation - particularly England and/or the UK (these "less reflective" individuals seldom make the necessary distinction).
According to this peculiar concept, Scotland alone is required to qualify for the nationhood that others hold as a right by meeting various vague and arbitrary criteria relating to size, population, wealth etc.
One can only assume that this resort to a "special" definition of nationhood is occasioned by an inability to find any rational grounds on which to deny Scotland the right to self-determination that is otherwise held to be universal.
Complain about this comment
148. MagisterIlluminatus
"The SNP's appeal is that of the heart, not the head..."
These are not mutually exclusive. The SNP's appeal is without doubt "of the heart" as anything relating to national and/or personal identity must be. But the SNP's policies and their record in government provide an appeal to the head which surely accounts for the larger part of their increasing popularity. Those susceptible to any emotional appeal were already on board long ago.
Complain about this comment
Please tell me Dean, Northighlander, Derek etc. that you don't support the use of a bigoted organisation to further your political ends. Being a democrat I accept that everyone, whether they are racist, bigoted, sexist or any other 'ist' that is an affront to the moral majority, should have the right to vote but surely the major parties would not sanction help from those types of people.
Complain about this comment
#148 MagisterIlluminatus
Fair enough, and thanks for the response.
I suspect you're correct about "plausible deniability" for the GE.
For Glasgow NE, the immediacy of the Herald's revelation will make it more difficult to deny, and with the seat previously having been held by a practicing RC and the SNP candidate already having been attacked for being "too RC" it may well have precisely the opposite effect to that intended.
Oh, and BTW, I'm an atheist who believes in complete religious freedom but a total separation of all churches from all governance, particularly in education.
Complain about this comment
#151 Brownedov and similar;
Regarding your comments about the Beeb's Unionist agenda; I think we may be giving more credit than is necessary to the various journalists and presenters who attract our wrath.
How can any sane and educated person possibly support a national debt of such proportions; illegal wars; continuing poverty; social fractures; non-distribution of wealth; unemployment...the list is endless.
No, upon reflection, it's not a Unionist agenda, with all the ills that that continues to bring. It's just tribalism. I think that sort of mindset is endemic in Scotland and not just confined to the under informed in our society. It's like the support that some footbal teams attract; loyal and totally irrational to the end.
Complain about this comment
# 9 giggletheloneranger
Why this thread?
Because I tend to forget to look at the previous threads and want to continue this discussion, so I carried it forward.
Does that mean the SNP dont want a next PM at-all?
Come on, Derek, let's be sensible.
Yes I did watch the speech!
I'm glad that you took the time to do so.
Here is a 'loaded' question for you. ;-)
Considering your obvious leftwards leaning political point of view do you agree, or disagree, that the SNP policies are closer to the basics of the old Labour values than the current NuLab?
Complain about this comment
155. Brownedov
"I'm an atheist who believes in complete religious freedom but a total separation of all churches from all governance, particularly in education."
Amen to that!
Complain about this comment
#134 Re EDL march in Glasgow. Having just done a wee check on facebook groups it would seem this march is being organised by another group called the SDL which is based in Glasgow on behalf of the EDL. Ive done a wee bit of research about the EDL and even though they are saying they are not racist it seems they are being infiltrated my neo nazi groups. I cant see why they need such a group up here as we (as far as i can see) dont have the same racial tensions as middle England.
Complain about this comment
#150 U14094468/Online Ed
Re Newsnet Scotland Edition 4, safely received and an interesting read, but you should perhaps make your readers more aware that many email servers will treat it as "spam" due to the lack of individual addressing. MS Outlook can be set to recognise the originator as a "safe sender", but only if the message gets delivered to the inbox. Gmail and GMX seem to move it to a "spam" folder first, with correction only possible through their web interfaces.
Re The Sunday Herald story, I agree it's a pity it doesn't have more prominence and that "Devine's madness" is buried within it. Even the usually percipient Guido links to the same article but misses a mention of that "honourable gentleman" in his Sunday Sleaze today.
Complain about this comment
Callod:
#149.
"What price Independence eh! Its the same for Wales and Ireland. They chose, like Scotland Independence but still want the English Parliament to support their Country."
Ireland does not exist, it's the Republic of Ireland or Northern Ireland. I can assure you neither Wales, Northern Ireland or Scotland has voted for independence. There is also no such thing as the English Parliament. I will believe you'll find Westminster is the British Parliament.
"They don't want England to vote on Scottish matters but are quite happy to dictate what happens in Enland if there's a hung parliament."
It's not that we don't want England to vote on Scottish matters. You can't vote on our domestic matters anyway ;-) Is it not better for England to see the SNP voting and supporting English issues by either the Conservatives or Labour? Personally I believe the largest political group in England does deserve backing and in return I expect greater authority over Scotland. It's a fair deal.
"What's wrong with having a United Kingdom! I'd gladly sign up to a party that delivers free resedential care for the elderly and free University Places."
You've listed quite a few problems. The Scots, Welsh and Irish still expect the 'English Parliament' to support their country and yet, also seek to dictate English policies come a hung Parliament.
It appears you alone have multiple reasons against the United Kingdom.
Complain about this comment
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Dean The Tory wrote
The SNP need to remember what followed the 1974 electoral successes, a 1979 resurgent Tory vote in Scotland. I think the SNP are overestimating their capacity to hold P & NP and Angus.
emm perhaps you could explian how when LibDem/Labour/Torys all combined to stop snp taking he council and then manage to get Perth Council from one of the top 5 in Scotland to near the bottom of the list in a term and how that will help them win P and k's hearts and minds. The words P**S up and brewery running of spring to mind, and thats how the population of p and k remeber it. In fact as the labour vote will likely decrease at the next election (in P and K )SNP will increase their majority.
Angus I dont know about but Perth I do and the days of a roll of linoleum with a blue roset winning it are gone (as a commentator in the Scotsman once put) We also remember the mess the last Tory incumbent made - a certain Mr Nicholas Fairbairn ( The reason why said comment was made by the scotsman) - say no more. Alan Partridge couldnt have done worse than he did - ah ha !
Complain about this comment
150. Brownedov
The Glasgow NE bye-election does have a number of features which mitigate against all parties. Firstly, there will be another election in about 8 months, turnout will therefore be even lower than normal in a seat with traditionally a very low turnout. Secondly, the religious card does play in this seat. The assumption that the seat is predominantly Catholic may have been true in the past, but is no longer the case. In that respect the Conservative candidate is actually playing a very shrewd game, by specifically avoiding any religious connotations. Thirdly, the recession has not yet bitten in this seat due to high levels of endemic unemployment. That may not be the case in 8 months time. Finally, law and order is a major issue for the voters impacting on their lives on a daily basis. You may think Richard Baker's comments are bonkers, but the voters of Glasgow NE don't.
Complain about this comment
ubinworryinmasheep:
#159.
"Ive done a wee bit of research about the EDL and even though they are saying they are not racist it seems they are being infiltrated my neo nazi groups. I cant see why they need such a group up here as we (as far as i can see) dont have the same racial tensions as middle England."
I would expect there to be racist elements, but it may not have been created to create racial tensions, simply too discuss Islamic integration into British communites or the lack of integration.
There will also be individuals who do not agree with their views but seek to discredit this organisation. It's quite simple to do, you show up on 'their side' and create trouble.
The problem is not what you see but what is not seen. You can change the laws all you want, but you can not change the mind of man. There will be those in Scotland who might not agree with the English Defence League but do have worries.
I've always claimed a discussion and understanding is needed to further integrate the world, or we can watch the rise of the right. I don't mind either, personally because I am a white and British.
Now, for those you enjoy the good conspricy.
If you believe the world is controlled by one organisation etc or banks who control Governments and manipulate public opinion. I had the discussion with a friend who believed it may all be happening on purpose in an attempt to create divisions in order for actions to be taken against the 'muslim world' without the public feeling to sorry for whatever happens.
Complain about this comment
Just in case my # 162 is moderated. Here is a link to 'Blether with Brian' on Quirkynats: Orange order
Complain about this comment
Re my # 162 which was taken down by the mods. This was about the article in the Scotsman about the Orange Lodge. If you press on the link it will not appear. Even if you go to the 'Scotsman' it will not appear. It has been taken down. I posted the article on here, as I have managed to copy and pasted it, but the BBC or someone in authority has decided that it is too hot for the Scottish public to know about this. Big brother, anyone?
Complain about this comment
#152 Electric Hermit
Quite so.
Re "England and/or the UK (these "less reflective" individuals seldom make the necessary distinction)", the problem seems to be that the "mainstream" parties in England have drifted so far to the right, with the spectrum now running from the LD's on the centre-right, via the Tories and UKIP to NuLab and the BNP, all of whom wrap themselves in the Union flag as a sort of imperial reminiscence, exacerbating the confusion.
Some "old Labour" voters in England seem finally to be waking up to the fact that their party has left them but the most relevant fault line line is that neither the Scottish nor the Welsh electorate have discarded old liberal values of local control and fairness.
Had the LD membership any more influence on their leadership than "old Labour" members have on theirs, things might be different. IMO, the Scottish LD's closed referendum meeting will be close to a last chance for them to show their true colours.
Complain about this comment
155. Brownedov
"Oh, and BTW, I'm an atheist who believes in complete religious freedom but a total separation of all churches from all governance, particularly in education."
You are not alone - I hope to see it framed constitutionally at some point in the future.
Complain about this comment
#156 Blind_Captain
Fair comment, and you're certainly entitled to take that view. Regarding "old Labour" voters, you're probably correct, but "tribalism" isn't actually embedded in the BBC Charter.
I do recognise that the BBC in general and BBC Scotland in particular have an element of self-defence in their pro-unionist stance. What really annoys me is their constant denial of any such thing. If they openly acknowledged it by a standard "health warning" on all of their political pages and programmes it would make less of a mockery of what they say.
I suggest something like:
BBC political reliability warning
All viewers, listeners and readers and should note that the BBC
cannot be entirely unbiased in its political coverage, especially
within the nations of the UK, due to its own self-interest, the
appointment by the Westminster government of the BBC Trust and
the centralised nature of its funding settlement.
Complain about this comment
# 167 you
On reflection it may be that there has been an injunction served on the 'Scotsman' about this story. Hmm, I suppose that only the 'establishment' has the power to get a judge out of his bed on a Sunday morning. ;-)
Complain about this comment
167. gedguy2
Well grabbed gedguy2!
Complain about this comment
#165 Thomas
'There will be those in Scotland who might not agree with the English Defence League but do have worries.'
I agree with some of what the EDL are saying but unfortunatly they are going about it the wrong way. Their main gripes are the hate preachers on the streets of the UK and the Sharia Law courts being opened in the country. I personally think Sharia Law is wrong and a lot of the disputes could be settled with our own fair laws. The big problem with these groups (go on facebook groups and check all the factions) is that there are counter groups springing up as well. I saw the tv footage of the EDL march in protest of a super mosque and to be fair it wasn,t the EDL that nearly caused a riot, it was a group of young Muslims who broke free of the police and chased the EDL. Now, all this wouldn't have happened if the EDL hadn't protested but the problem is only going to get worse if they do.
To be honest the rise of the far right in England is perhaps one of the reasons i want independence... maybe we will have to rebuild hadrians wall !!!
your conspiracy.. 9/11 !
Complain about this comment
168. Brownedov
"...all of whom wrap themselves in the Union flag as a sort of imperial reminiscence, exacerbating the confusion."
Confusion there certainly is. And seldom has this confusion been more evident than in the issue of the proposed TV debates. Among the less intellectually acute commentators on this matter there is a total inability to recognise (or acknowledge) a distinct Scottish context for these Party Political Broadcasts. They vaguely comprehend the English context but conflate that with a UK context that simply doesn't exist and thereby apply an alien English context in relation to Scotland.
It is the failure of the union in microcosm.
Complain about this comment
It could well be the case for Labour that
the future's bleak,the future's Orange.
Complain about this comment
#164 MagisterIlluminatus
OK. Mainly fair comment, which may be correct.
Re "You may think Richard Baker's comments are bonkers", if they're the ones referred to in Online Ed's #19, I wouldn't say they're bonkers but merely untruths...
"I am staggered that anyone would mention Kenny MacAskill in the same sentence as Mahatma Gandhi"
He didn't.
"The bragging that has gone on at the SNP conference about the release of the Lockerbie bomber is stomach turning and will further damage Scotland's reputation"
What bragging? What damage?
I do accept that some parties may well campaign on that basis in Glasgow NE and that some of the electorate may even be daft enough to vote for them as a result.
Complain about this comment
171. gedguy2
"On reflection it may be that there has been an injunction served on the 'Scotsman' about this story."
That would be an interdict. And I think it more likely that the "establishment" at The Sowhatsman realised somewhat belatedly the potential damage the story might do to their clients, the Tory/BLP alliance.
Complain about this comment
ubinworryinmasheep:
#173.
"I agree with some of what the EDL are saying but unfortunatly they are going about it the wrong way."
Have the EDL made their mistakes? I suspect so (everyone has), but I feel the EDL is apart of the rise of the right because Government has failed to handle problems. I've claimed for years that the Government must act, or the right might become violent and then who are on the receiving end? The very individuals who we accept in this country and should be protecting. I feel we have failed in our basic duties to protect the citizens of this country to allow such types of ideas to be left unchecked.
"Their main gripes are the hate preachers on the streets of the UK and the Sharia Law courts being opened in the country. I personally think Sharia Law is wrong and a lot of the disputes could be settled with our own fair laws."
I agree but I also believe our system should adopt other laws from other countries and groups. We've alot to learn and I know we can teach others alot too. I would never allow Sharia Law in principal to be created because of the different versions all over the world, none of which I would accept as civilised. I would add it's destroys the idea of integration and gives reason when muslims create Sharia Courts around the country. It all goes against them.
"The big problem with these groups (go on facebook groups and check all the factions) is that there are counter groups springing up as well."
It's not exactly a problem but I do not believe it's not fair to ask the police to look after two demonstrations on the same day. If I were an organiser I would always put security first, so I would feel vunerable because a minority will search for violence.
"I saw the tv footage of the EDL march in protest of a super mosque and to be fair it wasn,t the EDL that nearly caused a riot, it was a group of young Muslims who broke free of the police and chased the EDL. Now, all this wouldn't have happened if the EDL hadn't protested but the problem is only going to get worse if they do."
You can't complain for the group protesting. The main problem was the youths who are willing to use violence to put down a legal protest. It is almost an attack on the principals of democracy, but the worst thing that can be done is stop these ideas being expressed by the EDL because an isolated group will become violent without a doubt.
Just imagine for example unionists being denied their rights to express their support for the political union, or nationalists promoting independence.
"To be honest the rise of the far right in England is perhaps one of the reasons i want independence... maybe we will have to rebuild hadrians wall !!!"
You can be far right and still be reasonable. It's a common myth used to discredit organisations and I am suprised when people do describe them as Nazi-like. A real Nazi is what Hitler himself was and believed in. I have never seen a 'real' Nazi either.
"...your conspiracy.. 9/11 !"
I didn't mention 9/11 ;-) However there are certainly questionable moments of history and my friend believed that public opinion is being created for something much larger to come.
Complain about this comment
#167 gedguy2
Unless my ISP is playing caching tricks again, I suspect the problem was merely a failing server in a failing newspaper which caused the problem. I've had trouble getting the Scotsman site to load before and will doubtless do so again.
Try http://news.scotsman.com/latestnews/Orange-Order-mobilise-to-defend.5743358.jp? again.
Complain about this comment
171. gedguy2
"On reflection it may be that there has been an injunction served on the 'Scotsman' about this story."
The story is still online. Along with several others such as this,
Orange Order chief says growth in SNP support is 'biggest problem' facing country
Complain about this comment
178. Thomas_Porter
"You can be far right and still be reasonable."
You can't be "far" anything and still be ""reasonable". It is a contradiction in terms.
Complain about this comment
#158 Electric Hermit
"Amen to that!"
LOL
#169 mrbfaethedee
"You are not alone - I hope to see it framed constitutionally at some point in the future."
So it would appear. Maybe someday it will be a constitutional requirement, but don't hold your breath.
It's a political hot potato that no party will yet grasp, with the Rev A Bliar's emulation of Charles II's deathbed conversion to Catholicism and his "endowment" of Moslem state schools in England making it all the harder to unravel.
Complain about this comment
# 177 Electric Hermit
That would be an interdict.
I worship at the altar of your superior legal knowledge.
And I think it more likely that the "establishment" at The Sowhatsman realised somewhat belatedly the potential damage the story might do to their clients, the Tory/BLP alliance.
Would that account for the BBC not allowing the pasting of that article on this blog (see my # 162)?
Complain about this comment
# 175 mistydougie
ROFL
Complain about this comment
# 179 Brownedov
Glad to see that I was wrong.
Complain about this comment
183. gedguy2
"Would that account for the BBC not allowing the pasting of that article on this blog (see my # 162)?"
Copyright law would account for that. Quoting from an article is fair use. Reproducing it in full, or in substantial part, is likely to be deemed a breach of copyright.
Complain about this comment
175. mistydougie
SoS stole your joke.
The future is orange - Scotland on Sunday
Complain about this comment
#174 Electric Hermit
"It is the failure of the union in microcosm" &
#175 mistydougie
"It could well be the case for Labour that the future's bleak,the future's Orange"
Pithily and nicely put.
Complain about this comment
Online Ed Here
There are two articles related to the Orange Order. The first is the story that they will be openly campaigning for Labour, the second is a curious piece probably put together in an attempt at softening their image.
Usually this sort of news would prompt calls to the Labour party press office from all media outlets to find out what their reaction is and whether they welcome the support from such an organisation.
Actual Story Here
Puff Piece Here
Politics Show:
Glenn Campbell true to form as ever; What is it about BBC correspondents right now that they insist on asking the same banal question to any and every SNP spokesperson? This morning saw the same "who do you wany to be PM" question asked for probably the twentieth time this weekend - do the BBC not realise that everyone knows that they are trying to create a 'SNP Support Consevatives' headline?
Campbell up to his little trick as well when discussing the banks, right at the end he provides John McFall a little platform in order to attack the SNP. He then helpfully tries to suggest that the SNP and the Conservatives are "too close together" when moving onto Mundell.
This is really unacceptable behaviour from a TV presenter, broadcasting what is basically Labour party propaganda is not allowed - especially when the party being smeared have no representative on the show.
One last thing:
Alex Salmond was confronted by front pages from many newspapers as was David Mundell, however the biggest and probably most sensational story in a Scottish context was missing. We have been discussing it on this very blog, the announcement by the Orange Order that they will campaign for Labour.
Campbell has for some weeks now held up to camera various headline stories, yet this one was ignored. I believe that there is a very real case for BBC Scotland to answer on this ommission given that they have set a very real precedent of confronting party representatives with unconfortable headlines.
In short, why was Labour's John McFall not called upon to give his views on this story?
Complain about this comment
Electric Hermit:
#181.
"You can't be "far" anything and still be ""reasonable". It is a contradiction in terms."
It depends on the person, a person can still be considered moderate and unwilling to change their opinions despite in the face of clear evidence.
I would still consider a person far right and reasonable if they accept their position may be wrong and open minded of other opinions which stretch beyond the traditional far right ideas.
Complain about this comment
It would appear there is a shift towards tackling the biased coverage of the BBC by members of the SNP government and the supporters. Its about time this was tackled head on and I welcome it, add this to the report that the Orange order are backing the union what a great day to be a supporter of Independence, not that my support has ever wavered but it does give a bit more fire in the belly. Oh happy days.
Complain about this comment
First post from the last day at Conference - nice to see the man himself, Brian Taylor, resplendent in his tartan galluses and queuing for an orange juice next to John Swinney.
Will be intersting to see if Brian let's us in on their conversation later. One possible topic might have been the Reform Scotland report published today and welcomed by John Swinney at a Fringe event last night. The report recommends an increase in fiscal powers for Scotland
as the best means of ensuring economic growth - in a time of recession.
Kind've blows a hole in the Unionist argument - that this is not the time to revisit Scotland's constitutional settlement, doesn't it?
It's time.
Complain about this comment
# 189 U14094468
Again, the link is blocked.
Complain about this comment
193. gedguy2
"Again, the link is blocked."
Not blocked. Server error. Happens a lot with the Johnson Press sites.
Complain about this comment
190. Thomas_Porter
It is certainly easy to describe extremists as being "reasonable" if you first arbitrarily redefine "extreme" as "reasonable". But language is a shared code. Not your personal property to manipulate as you please.
Complain about this comment
# 194 Electric Hermit
OK
Complain about this comment
Electric Hermit:
#195.
"It is certainly easy to describe extremists as being "reasonable" if you first arbitrarily redefine "extreme" as "reasonable". But language is a shared code. Not your personal property to manipulate as you please."
It's also certainly easy to describe another persons view as extreme because it represents the complete opposite of what you might agree with.
To these individuals there views are not extreme and might be considered complete normal and it is us, who are the extreme individuals through their eyes.
I do beleive it's a matter of personal opinion and would not force our standards on everyone else, who are to dictate is extreme or not?
Complain about this comment
# 195 Electric Hermit
But language is a shared code. Not your personal property to manipulate as you please.
I would have to disagree with you there. That attitude would mean the death of the language. It is peoples' interpretation of a language that allows that language to grow and not stagnate. If that were the case then we wouldn't have, 'glenncampbelly'. ;-)
Complain about this comment
197. Thomas_Porter
"It's also certainly easy to describe another persons view as extreme because it represents the complete opposite of what you might agree with."
Again you manipulate language to suit your own purposes. Political extremism is not measured in relation to a particular individual's politics. It is measured in relation to the centre of the spectrum of political philosophy. A person is not an extremist because their views are diametrically opposed to mine. They are an extremist because their views depart significantly from the broad consensus of society as a whole.
Complain about this comment
If the SoS on-line article has been pulled it is to late. This story is doing the rounds across a few other non-political sites I pop into and I noticed it was the headline on the paper version - saw it in the shop this morning
Complain about this comment
# 200 griflion
That is the nicer version. The other one is more damning.
Complain about this comment
191. At 1:22pm on 18 Oct 2009, peteraberdeenshire wrote:
It would appear there is a shift towards tackling the biased coverage of the BBC by members of the SNP government and the supporters. Its about time this was tackled head on and I welcome it, add this to the report that the Orange order are backing the union what a great day to be a supporter of Independence, not that my support has ever wavered but it does give a bit more fire in the belly. Oh happy days.
Peter, the Orange Order do have some influence in certain areas of Glasgow and surrounding areas. It would be foolish to dismiss them. Unfortunately, too many people down here still haven't grown up yet.
Likewise, the EDL I think are in cahoots with the BNP. The BNP over the past few months have been highly visible in Glasgow City Centre promoting themselves, with the anti-facist supportes ensuring they don't have an easy time.
I think the immigration / religion cards are about to be played, albeit quietly. While the vast majority of people are tolerant, in times of economic hardship some will tend to gravitate to extremist parties, simply because the others fail to help them. The most extreme example of this was the rise of the Nazis in the 1930s. OK, the economics then were far harsher than here, but I'm trying to make the same general point.
As a few have already mentioned, the SNP would do well to keep out of any argument, especially a religious one. If asked, the best response is that people can vote for who they like, that is the benefit of a democracy.
Salmond and the other senior members will certainly be careful, but I'd worry about the few loose cannons in the SNP. All it takes is one careless statement.
Complain about this comment
#189 U14094468/Online Ed &
#193 gedguy2
The Scotsman's server does seem to be up and down like a yoyo today, but if you put a ? on the end of the URL and keep trying you should eventually get there.
I'd credit The future is orange article as being a little more than a "Puff Piece", but suspect it will have more impact on the Tory vote than anything else and would welcome Dean's input. There can't be many of Chamberlain's oxymoronic Liberal Unionists left, but their offspring seem largely to have become the "one nation" Tories who were successful in 1955 and of which Dean may be a lingering remnant.
Mags may be correct in thinking NuLab will accept all the help they can get, but the article's reference to a NuLab insider saying "Labour needs all the friends it can get. But it would only want Orangemen volunteers if they left their sashes behind" suggests they have their reservations.
More to the point is that we are told that Tom Devine (any relation to the Livingston MP, I wonder?), the Sir William Fraser Professor of Scottish History and Palaeography, Director of the Scottish Centre of Diaspora Studies and Head of Schoolhas talked of the organisation's "lingering death" and referred to it as "almost entirely a movement of the underclass" and is quoted directly as saying:
"Most middle-class professional Protestant Scots hold the Order in contempt but this whole constitutional thing is throwing up a can of worms of paradox and puzzle ...
For all the talk of the Order being a religious organisation, its political root is unionism. And in much of Scotland, Labour are the dominant party of the Union. So even if it takes a very long spoon, they would be prepared to sup with the devil."
I do suspect he's right. Could the next development, after the general election be a new Scottish Unionist Party combining the diehards and led by Aunty Bella?
Complain about this comment
198. gedguy2
"It is peoples' interpretation of a language that allows that language to grow and not stagnate."
That is part of the process by which language evolves. an important part. But the evolutionary process itself must give rise to a shared code within the language community. Because without this attribute it is not a viable language.
Interpretations that depart too far from the common understanding of the language community are like aberrant biological mutations. They cannot survive because they are not adapted to the ecological niche into which they are being introduced.
Complain about this comment
198. gedguy2
"I would have to disagree with you there. That attitude would mean the death of the language."
Death is the organism's ultimate adaptation to its environment.
Complain about this comment
Did anybody notice the couple of wee digs Alex Salmond got in during his interview with Glenn Campbell on today's Politics Show? Salmond described a previous piece from the conference which showed an interview conducted by the BBC's Catriona Renton with the SNP's Alex Neil as like being interviewed by "a Labour Councillor"....and when Glenn said Alex Neil had responded to CR's question with 'glee' Alex Salmond said he didn't recognise that in the response and wondered if the description was a 'Glenn Campbellism'
Complain about this comment
Blatant bias shown by Glen Campbell on the Politics Show.
Why was the Scotland on Sunday Orange Order story not reported ? Why did he not ask the question to McFall on todays show?
When just about every forum and blog is discussing the Orange Order story, the BBC ignore it !
Complain about this comment
# 205 Electric Hermit
Death is the organism's ultimate adaptation to its environment.
Nice to know that I'm not going to die but adapt. ;-)
Complain about this comment
#191 Peter: Yep, the idea of the Orange Order getting involved just makes us stronger. I am a member of the SNP but have not had any real ambition so far to do any campaigning, leaflet posting etc...
...that just changed.
Saor Alba!
Complain about this comment
# 204 Electric Hermit
Interpretations that depart too far from the common understanding of the language community are like aberrant biological mutations.
Surely this is what the evolution of language is all about. The English language has picked up words from all over the world and especially from Hollywood movies. Many words which had an original meaning have now taken on a completely different meaning. The word 'wicked' is a case in point. When I grew up it meant something bad but in today's jargon it means something good. I meet a lot of young afro-caribbeans in the college I attend in south west London and I have to get a friend of mine (of the same extract) who is older than them to translate for me. This is not a dead-end of the English language but a fully thriving niche which quite a lot of young white English lads are now fluent in. In a few years time I am confident that their interpretation of the language will be dominant amongst the working classes in the London area. C'est la vie.
Complain about this comment
208. gedguy2
"Nice to know that I'm not going to die but adapt. ;-)"
Glad to be of comfort. But please don't rush to test the validity of my aphorism.
Complain about this comment
# 211 Electric Hermit
I'm not too sure if my ex-wife would have the same concerns as your good self. ;-)
Complain about this comment
Regarding the Politics Show; Glenn Campbell is rapidly painting himself into a corner, the silly/naughty corner. It is clear that Alex Salmond has him sussed. He is treating him with the contempt that Glenn deserves.
What the SNP should do is make a policy statement on the future of broadcasting in an independent Scotland, including scrutiny of journalistic standards and an intention to have a "Spring Clean" of the current political content and comment in order to safeguard democratic standards. That would send a clear signal. And it wouldn't do any harm either as there is nothing to be afraid of; the SNP are up against it at the moment nd it can't get any more unbalanced.
On this note; who within the corriders of the BBC do you complain to?
Complain about this comment
210. gedguy2
"The English language has picked up words from all over the world and especially from Hollywood movies."
Only those which are "fit", in the Darwinian sense of finding a place in the ecology of the language community. It is impossible to force a word into the language if it is rejected (passively or actively) by the language community. Terms which depart too far from established usage struggle to find a niche and almost always fail to do so.
Words that have acquired special usages, such as "wicked", can make it appear that language is infinitely and readily malleable. That it can be designed. But this is for the same reason that we have the appearance of design in nature. The bad designs don't survive. All we see are the success stories.
It is also important to understand that a language community is not a homogeneous entity. Like and island, it has different environments such as shoreline and mountain. And, also like an island, it is only a relatively isolated place. It is connected to other islands by the ocean of our shared human capacity for complex communication. So, within this language community a word can acquire a "slang" meaning in a particular sub-environment - usually among the young - which can then leech into the wider community via shared contact points, i.e. mass media.
It is possible, if unlikely, that the meaning of the word "wicked" will actually undergo a 180° transformation. It is merely being added as a subsidiary meaning. The English language is particularly good at this. Which is why it is so rich.
But the one thing all these words have in common is that, at some time, a large enough part of the language community adopted them for them to become part of the shared code that is language.
Complain about this comment
213. At 3:09pm on 18 Oct 2009, Blind_Captain wrote:
What the SNP should do is make a policy statement on the future of broadcasting in an independent Scotland, including scrutiny of journalistic standards and an intention to have a "Spring Clean" of the current political content and comment in order to safeguard democratic standards. That would send a clear signal. And it wouldn't do any harm either as there is nothing to be afraid of; the SNP are up against it at the moment nd it can't get any more unbalanced.
Good point, but I cannot see the SNP doing this. Most people don't watch the politics show, and most will not even know who campbell is. But to put such a policy forward is dangerous, as it would open the SNP to accusations of press censorship, even though the policy is to get a balanced view.
But how do you judge what is balanced and what is biased? And how would you enforce such a policy? Would a case be brought against an editor because someone felt it was over-critical of the Scottish Government? Would political programmes be obliged to cover all aspects of the news?
And the SNP or any party for that matter would lose if such a policy was announced. More people read the tabloids than will ever watch political programmes.
The other danger of having such legislation is it would be open to abuse. For example, Scotland is independent and the SNP lose power in an election. In come Labour and then use the legislation any time there is criticism of the government.
Yes, the BBC is a publicly funded body that should be politically neutral, but the way you change that is to change to governors (or whatever equivalent would be in Scotland).
If the BBC is first, then what is next? Newspapers? They have always had political leanings one way or other. Do you then apply the legislation to individuals who have their own blogs?
The BBC will likely lean away from Labour next year anyway, since their paymasters will be the Tories.
Complain about this comment
#206 raise the game , afternoon, yep i noticed it. About time too!
I hear that chris Iwelumo famous for missing an open goal last year is to join the BBC Scotland news & cuurent affairs dept. He will fit in well with all the other duds currently on BBC Scotland's books.
Sid
Complain about this comment
# 214 Electric Hermit
I have no argument with you on those points.
Complain about this comment
# 215 Neil_Small147
Sadly, I would have to agree with you even though my heart wants to side with # 213 Blind_Captain.
Complain about this comment
I've just watched Newsnight Scotland 15/10/09 and was appalled at their opening. I have never seen or heard this sort of derogatory remarks about a party leader who is running a democratically elected government.
Gordon Brewer then interviewed Nicola Sturgeon and tried, desperately, to get her to admit that the SNP wanted the Tories to take power in the next GE. I think the time has come to get rid of all the Labour interviewers working for BBC Scotland and bring in someone who can do unglenncampbelled proper interviews!
Complain about this comment
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Online Ed Here
Below is a partial transcript of Catriona Renton's piece broadcast from the SNP conference at Inverness. Miss Renton, prior to the transcript, has asked a number of people attending the conference who they preferred as the next PM - all stated that Labour and Tory were as bad as the other and that they had no preference.
Miss Renton wonders if this is simply party discipline and opines that there may be people who hold a different view behind closed doors, Miss Renton offers no evidence for this speculative view.
She then interviewed Professor James Mitchell of the University of Strathclyde who gave his professional opinion on the subject. What followed has been transcribed below.
Professor James Mitchell:
"...I think that the SNP would want to see David Cameron in power. I think it will be very difficult for anyone here at the SNP conference to say that."
Catriona Renton responds in a voice over:
"Step forward the Scottish Government Minister prepared to do just that."
Alex Neil:
"Well, if there's a Tory Government after the next election in London, I think what's going to happen is that the Labour voters in Scotland those who had voted Labour and ended up with a Tory Government again are going to come into the independence camp and realise that the only way forward for Scotland is by voting for independence because that frees us up from the decisions of the people South of the border.
If they want a Tory Government they're entitled to a Tory Government but the Scottish people and particularly Labour voters I think will be very disillusioned and I think more and more of them will come over to our way of thinking that it's high time Scotland had a sovereign parliament independent of London capable of taking decisions for ourselves."
Alex Neil was asked [although it wasn't broadcast] what would happen IF there was to be a Tory Government.
Alex Neil did NOT say at any point that he WANTED a Tory Government.
Catriona Renton is guilty of completely misrepresenting an interviewee - she has attributed a view to Alex Neil that he has not expressed.
What can be done about this kind of misrepresentation? Probably nothing, a complaint to the BBC will [as I am discovering] be ignored more often than it elicits a generic arrogant reply.
Complain about this comment
219. gedguy2
"Gordon Brewer then interviewed Nicola Sturgeon and tried, desperately, to get her to admit that the SNP wanted the Tories to take power in the next GE."
That is their current obsession. Tiresome, isn't it?
Complain about this comment
Online Ed Here
Didn't catch the first couple of minutes interview between Glenn Campbell and Alex Salmond earlier today but having watched on iplayer whoa!!, Salmond really gave him a bit of a doing in the opening exchanges.
I remarked a few days ago that I wondered if there was a slight change in approach to the BBC and there certainly has been - at least for the duration of the conference.
Watch the end of the interview and see Campbell yet again lose his professionalism as he ends the interview in a very rude and abrupt manner reminiscent of one Kirsty Wark.
Campbell should be removed from these high profile duties until he proves that he can mask his partisan feelings to an acceptable level.
Complain about this comment
# 221 U14094468
I think that we now all accept that the British Broadcasting Corporation will do all in its power to facilitate a situation to the further of the continuence of the Union. Complaints are a waste of time, you know it and they know it.
At one time the BBC was renowned for giving an unbiased news coverage on non political stories. I happened to see a News24 interview the other day when a woman was being interviewed and the interviewer ended the interview with a cutting remark about the interviewee. I was shocked that this sort of thing happens all the time on the BBC. This is not just about the BBC's blatant glenncampbelled coverage of the SNP, this is rampant all over the BBC.
Complain about this comment
# 222 Electric Hermit
Tell me about it.
Complain about this comment
I watched Andrew Neil interviewing Harriet Harman the other day on 'Hardtalk'. I so wished that we had his like back here to give a semblence of balance to the 'political interview'.
Complain about this comment
223. U14094468
"Salmond really gave him a bit of a doing in the opening exchanges."
I liked the way Salmond dealt with the MacAskill/Ghandi nonsense. Dismissing it as "tabloid Stuff" in a way that left no doubt only an idiot would have mentioned it. Ultimately the exchange served Salmond nicely as it gave him an opening to once again emphasise the legal, moral and political validity of the decision.
Not quite how it played when previewed in Glenn's wee head, I suspect.
Complain about this comment
# 223 U14094468
I tried to find this and couldn't. Could you supply me with a link?
Complain about this comment
I have just visited Guido and the article to which someone referred regarding a pro union group has been tagged by a blogger.
Just a wee taste for the rest of you , after boasting that they helped Labour win Glenrothes unexpectedly , the chap goes on to say,
"In its strongest reaction to the rise of Scottish Nationalism yet, Grand Master Ian Wilson said the order would do anything in its power to save Scotland's 302-year-old union with England, even if that meant "getting into bed with Labour".
Hideous.
Complain about this comment
#228gedguy
How about a supply of duck tape!. O' :)
LoL! we still here! and watching.
Complain about this comment
229. Diabloandco
""In its strongest reaction to the rise of Scottish Nationalism yet, Grand Master Ian Wilson said the order would do anything in its power to save Scotland's 302-year-old union with England, even if that meant "getting into bed with Labour"."
So long as there's still room for Annabel Goldie.
Complain about this comment
Anyone have a link to that Glenn Campbell interview? Will my comment get removed if I mention that the man is an idiot? He doesn't even do his bias well--it's like slap in the face. And I always enjoy watching a "newsperson" getting the Salmond treatment and the air let out of their overblown egos.
I just can't comment on the Orange Order thing because if I do it will certainly be considered inflammatory.
Complain about this comment
giggles, so can we assume that you are pleased with your allies?
I believe there is an old saying about sleeping with dogs...
Complain about this comment
The British Parliamentary road to socialism turns out to be an Orange Walk. Will Giggle now be learning how to play "Let's Keep the Red Flag Flying Here" on the flute and Lambeg?
Complain about this comment
195. Electric Hermit
But language is a shared code. Not your personal property to manipulate as you please.
The first part of your statement is correct, but not the second. Language is the personal property of each individual speaker, to use, manipulate, alter and re-apply as they see fit. Meaning can and does change over time and can only do so because individual speakers use words in novel ways.
But the second a word is uttered the speaker loses ownership of it. ('Ownership' the sense of the right to determine the meaning of the word or utterance.) Once the speaker's words arrive in the ears of the listener they become the 'property' of the listener. Listeners will interpret a speaker's words according to their own experience of the words and the concepts they believe them to represent. The speaker cannot force his or her interpretation of a word onto the listener. Listeners are not obliged to interpret the words of the speaker in the way the speaker intends.
Language is inherently democratic. A speaker can make a novel interpretation of an existing word, but if listeners do not accept the interpretation, it remains idiolectal (a property of an individual speaker) and doesn't spread wider in the language. It's like voting, you can vote in any way you like, but if most people vote differently from you your vote doesn't elect the government
Thomas Porter has the right to say that extremist politics can be reasonable, and you have the right to tell him he's talking a load of twaddle. Which in this case he is - at least according to my own personal understanding of the terms extremist and reasonable. Like (I suspect) the vast majority of English speakers I understand reasonable to mean 'not extravagant or excessive, moderate'. Moderate extremism is a contradiction in terms.
Complain about this comment
232. JRMacClure
"I just can't comment on the Orange Order thing because if I do it will certainly be considered inflammatory."
I have a similar problem when discussing Weasel Blair.
Complain about this comment
#231 Electric Hermit
"So long as there's still room for Annabel Goldie."
Talking of Aunty Bella, I wonder if she's the MSP "Senior Tories" are considering ennobling in order to replace Skeletor as Scottish Secretary from the House of Lords because "Mundell is not Cabinet-level material", as reported in the Herald's Senior Tories bid to block party’s only Scottish MP from top job.
Oddly it also reports that Goldie and Mundell had not been invited to "a private dinner [for Cameron] at the Milngavie home of Sir Jack Harvie, the Tories’ key Scottish fundraiser". Perhaps he passes the port the wrong way, the cad.
Failing those two, Lord Forsyth must be back in the frame. I wonder if Dean can suggest some suitable candidates or is the aim of Tory high command to ensure an SNP landslide in May 2011 followed by a June 2011 independence referendum?
Complain about this comment
233. JRMacClure
"I believe there is an old saying about sleeping with dogs..."
This bed's getting a bit crowded. Annabel's going to have to use those elbows if she wants to keep her space.
Complain about this comment
Here's today's episode of The Politics Show as mentioned earlier: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00n9rk5/The_Politics_Show_Scotland_18_10_2009
Complain about this comment
235. InfrequentAllele
"Meaning can and does change over time and can only do so because individual speakers use words in novel ways.
"
There are many different processes involved in the evolution of language. Individuals using words in novel ways is just a small part of it. The one constant, however, is that to be a language it must be a shared code. There is no other way to convey meaning. An individual is certainly free to use the word black when the are trying to convey the sense of white. But the communication episode is doomed to fail.
They are also free to poke sharp sticks up their nostrils whilst riding a pink unicycle. But this is no more likely to further their efforts at communicating the colour of fresh snow than using the word "black". It is not a matter of what they are free to do, but what they are free to do that will achieve the objective.
Language is constrained by the need to communicate with others. Just as in a democracy individual freedom is constrained by the need to maintain social functionality. Both democracy and language have laws.
Complain about this comment
#234 InfrequentAllele
"Will Giggle now be learning how to play "Let's Keep the Red Flag Flying Here" on the flute and Lambeg?"
Perhaps, but I rather suspect that Mr G and the Orangemen will be playing the Tannenbaum version rather than the original White Cockade one, as demonstrated here.
The former frightened the life out of me in the early '70s when I arrived in a wintry Chicago O'Hare to be greeted by it over every tannoy, thinking that WW3 might have taken place while I was travelling and that the Soviets had had won.
Complain about this comment
237. Brownedov
"Oddly it also reports that Goldie and Mundell had not been invited to "a private dinner [for Cameron] at the Milngavie home of Sir Jack Harvie, the Tories’ key Scottish fundraiser". Perhaps he passes the port the wrong way, the cad."
I'm sure there is a TV movie in there somewhere. But I have to confess to being less than enthralled by the doings of the Tory clique.
Complain about this comment
237. With a devolved Scottish government, is there any reason whatsoever for having a "Scottish Secretary"?
Can someone explain this to me?
Complain about this comment
243. JRMacClure
"237. With a devolved Scottish government, is there any reason whatsoever for having a "Scottish Secretary"?
Can someone explain this to me?"
Reasons for having a Scottish Secretary? Let me think....
Got it!
It's to keep Jim Murphy well away from Downing Street!
Complain about this comment
giggly, dear, you seem to have neglected to answer my question back at 25.
Which would you rather have running Scotland in 2011? An independent Scottish government elected by the Scottish people, or a Tory government in Westminster elected by the people of England?
Complain about this comment
#238. At 7:26pm on 18 Oct 2009, Electric Hermit wrote:
233. JRMacClure
"I believe there is an old saying about sleeping with dogs..."
This bed's getting a bit crowded. Annabel's going to have to use those elbows if she wants to keep her space.
True. But my opinion of Ms. Goldie is that she will be itching uncomfortably after having lain with those particular dogs.
Complain about this comment
246. JRMacClure
"True. But my opinion of Ms. Goldie is that she will be itching uncomfortably after having lain with those particular dogs."
She made her bed and now she must lie in it.
We may be in danger of taking this too far.
Complain about this comment
Maybe someone mentioned this, but I didn't see it. As horrifying as it is to see Labour allowing Orange Order to cozy up, this also can not possibly look good:
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/politics/mps-in-bid-to-block-police-fraud-probe-1.926787
Can Labour manage to do any more wrong? Are they suicidal. (Well, maybe the Orange Order isn't suicidal. One never knows but it would give me the collywobbles)
Complain about this comment
#244 Electric Hermit
"It's to keep Jim Murphy well away from Downing Street!"
LOL. That's certainly better than any I can think of which might pass the mods.
Complain about this comment
#247. Actually it's the other side who has the fleas considering who THEY are lying down with. I really don't have a bad an opinion of Ms. Goldie; I just think she's put herself in a very uncomfortable position which is the point of that particular saying.
Complain about this comment
The need for having a Scottish Secretary?
It puts a fifth column in place to watch over the devolved government and report back to HQ and to put as many spoilers into the stew as possible!
Complain about this comment
237. At 7:26pm on 18 Oct 2009, Brownedov
Mundell...sigh...not for a ministry please!!
Suitable and credible candidates? Well I know for certain that if Peter Duncan gets back in in Dumfries & Galloway he wil be shortlisted automatically [I like him and so do most grass roots Scottish tories]
Sadly,and it does cause me extreme pain and anguish to say this...I have since come to the conclusion that Forsyth has been shortlisted too [but apparently as the last resort card- Cameron isnt a fan of his due to his unbent thatcherite tendancies].
Other than them? Perhaps Sir Tam Galbraiths son Lord Strathclyde should get the job? His father was a legend of Glasgow tory politics alongside Teddy Taylor.
John Lamont- our boy standing in the very winnable Berwickeshire rox and sel seat, he could be shortlisted [very ambitious little sod].
Other than that? Erm..has anyone thought of Sir Malcomn Rifkind?
Complain about this comment
The Orange Lodge is much discussed here tonight...and let me tell you the days of that lot being tories has passed, it went out when Thatcher signed the agreement with the republic back in the 1980's.
Personally I say good riddens, I dont like their crass religious orientated politics, sadly they form the core vote for us in Glasgow town.
Complain about this comment
Thanks for the link to the Politics Show.
Absolutely shocking.
This " impartial " BBBC needs its comeuppance.
Complain about this comment
250. JRMacClure
"I really don't have a bad an opinion of Ms. Goldie"
Even after her behaviour at Holyrood? And her grossly intemperate speech at the Conservative Conference? She's lost it, I'm afraid.
Complain about this comment
Oh dear Dean.
After all your, never, over my dead body etc, the friends of Forsyth were not flying a kite after all.
Now heres a thought Dean, was Forsyth at that dinner in Miligavie???
Was Harvie not an admirer of Thatcher? Could it be a case of if you want my money Forsyth must be brought back, and since no one in Scotland would vote for him, it has to be unelected through the House of Lards (no not a misprint)
What a slogan for the general election.
Vote Labour and get torys plus the orange order.
Vote tory and get tory and Forsyth.
Vote Lib Dem and get some sympathy.
Vote SNP and get your country back.
Complain about this comment
Brian
Alex's choice of 20 is an interesting number. There are many different scenarios for the GE; LibDem meltdown to 12-14%, Tory fightback to 20%ish, Lab "looses" 6% between support and vote, Lab support actually collapses to 27%, SNP support rises from 30 to 33%, etc., etc.. The difficulty is to get 20 SNP MPs. If HEC is right, and that is a big if as it is predicated on the loosening of voting patterns set over the last 40 years because of the "establishment" of an SNP vote after their 2007 result, then Scotland is now much, much more twitchy in outcome in seats. Tiny variations in the % support in the polls translates to SNP results from 13 to 26 seats. At the one end they should be putting in any spare resources to Ochil and at the other Ayrshire Central. It will be interesting to see if the SNP put in extra effort to the two Ayrshire seats Central and North. If they do then Alex is gambling on a one-way ticket to New York for Mike Russell as they probably wil have the magic 30 if they get both.
The other interesting aspect, for me at least is that at that 26-30 level there are only 5 seats with a Labour majority over 3000 viz.,
Rutherglen and Hamilton West - Tommy McAvoy
Motherwell and Wishaw - Frank Roy
Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill - Tom Clarke
Glasgow South West - Ian Davidson
Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath - Gordon Brown
and this last only because the PM will pick up 2000 votes from the "he's one of us" and "he never got a fair chance" pools. So when he resigns after Labour's English slaughter, K+C is up for grabs with essentially Labour only having a 1000 vote majority. Now as a voter in K+C that is interesting!
Complain about this comment
#255. At 8:58pm on 18 Oct 2009, Electric Hermit wrote:
250. JRMacClure
"I really don't have a bad an opinion of Ms. Goldie"
Even after her behaviour at Holyrood? And her grossly intemperate speech at the Conservative Conference? She's lost it, I'm afraid.
The reason for my lay down with dogs, get up with fleas reference. She has done herself no favors and has lost a lot of good opinion. And being a member of the party that has the history of support from the above-mentioned Orangemen.
For someone who I think does consider herself an honorable person, it has to itch interminably. Sad, really.
Complain about this comment
#252 deanthetory
Thanks for your opinions, Dean. I'm sure they were honestly given, but I can't see any of them doing anything but extend the rift between Holyrood and Westmidden.
If your lot don't give Mundell the job, if he keeps his seat, and at least until his first faux pas then the idea of giving it to an MSP looks less unattractive if Cameron wants to extend any kind of olive branch to the Scottish Government.
Of course, if he doesn't, Forsyth or Rifkind would be perfect - from an SNP perspective!
Complain about this comment
256. At 9:04pm on 18 Oct 2009, dubbieside
"Now heres a thought Dean, was Forsyth at that dinner in Miligavie???"
As far as I am aware no he wasnt.
"Was Harvie not an admirer of Thatcher? Could it be a case of if you want my money Forsyth must be brought back"
Since I dont think Forsyth was there at all this is reduced to meaningless conjecture. Baseless and valueless.
"Vote SNP and get your country back."
How very braveheart of you, tell me do you happen to live near the monument in Stirling? If so then it explains much about your 'heart rules head' mentality.
As for me, constitutional matters like independence are dont my priority, I'd prefer to focus on the issues that actually matter- namely dealinmg with Labours debt crisis and the SNPs deeply concerning pledge to redistribute at the expense of innovation, entrepreneurialism and job creation.
Complain about this comment
251. hamish42
"The need for having a Scottish Secretary?"
It gives The Sowhatsman a source of anti-Scottish government quotes when George Foulkes is "unavailable" [cough!].
PS - Iain (2 I's no spine) Gray is no use because nobody can remember anything he says long enough to write it down.
Complain about this comment
252. deanthetory
"[I like him and so do most grass roots Scottish tories]"
Well! With both of you on his side, he's a shoo-in.
Complain about this comment
252. deanthetory
"Cameron isnt a fan of his due to his unbent thatcherite tendancies"
Would Cammie prefer a bent Thatcherite?
Complain about this comment
#260. "Vote SNP and get your country back."
How very braveheart of you, tell me do you happen to live near the monument in Stirling? If so then it explains much about your 'heart rules head' mentality.
GRRRR William Wallace was NOT Braveheart.
And considering that most pro-unionism is based purely on emotion (we've always been union so we must continue to be), maybe those in glass houses might hold off on the stones.
Complain about this comment
252. deanthetory
"Other than them? Perhaps Sir Tam Galbraiths son Lord Strathclyde should get the job? His father was a legend of Glasgow tory politics alongside Teddy Taylor."
Now there is the authentic voice of unreconstructed old-Toryism. Central Office should get you to write their leaflets.
Complain about this comment
252. deanthetory
"Erm..has anyone thought of Sir Malcomn Rifkind?"
Not since I finished therapy.
Complain about this comment
Since the Scottish Secretary is apparently nothing more than a PR post with no power and no importance--does it matter who holds it?
Except that some might do better PR -- whether for the union or for their own part I'm a bit unclear on, but you know how it is. American and all. :-)
Complain about this comment
253. deanthetory
"and let me tell you the days of that lot being tories has passed"
Don't tell us. Tell them. They are still Tory enough to support the British Labour Party.
Complain about this comment
Brain,
Pity, as BBC licence payers, we didn't get the same coverage (if any), that the other parties got.
Indeed, the other parties actually had live coverage, and then repeat after repeat after repeat.
However, our Scottish Governments coverage has been pitiful.
By all means publish your opinions and second hand accounts, but it's also good to be able to get the information live, rather than being filtered to give us what the BBC considers to be the juiciest bits.
Complain about this comment
264. At 9:21pm on 18 Oct 2009, JRMacClure
Yes I was being cheaky there, sorry. ;)
266. At 9:22pm on 18 Oct 2009, Electric Hermit
LOL best reply from you yet, even made a dour one nationuiist tory like me smile.
Complain about this comment
And yes, I know that Scotland was not "always" union. I meant within the person's memory and that of their parents. Most of the unionists, if you scrape off the anti-nationalist rhetoric are really saying that they are simply immensely emotionally uncomfortable with independence and feel safe in the union -- however bad it might be at times.
Complain about this comment
JRMacClure:
It was originally presented as Scotlands man inside the UK cabinet, it's also been presented as such on occasions thesedays. However it's mainly Britains man inside Scotland, it should be the Scottish Gov's man inside the UK cabinet, personally.
However it's British therefore it can't and shouldn't make sense xD
Complain about this comment
Home again; exhausted; ready for bed and not really looking forward to going back to work tomorrow. After 3 days in the bubble of party politics - you end up needing to decompress before you're safe to resurface in the real world.
Anyway; highlights, for me, from the last day of the SNP Conference -
1. The way Alex's tie was so obviously chosen to match Nicola's mauve (magenta? - I don't really know one from the other) outfit
2. The roll call of 59 prospective Westminster candidates, as they walked on stage, introduced individually by Bruce Crawford.
3. Dr Eilidh Whiteford; SNP PPC for Banff & Buchan, one of the party members who signed Alex Salmond's nomination papers when he first stood for the seat - "We weren't sure about him then", she said, "but he's turned out okay."
4. Stewart Stevenson's rattled off list of numbers, relating to his time as Transport Minister - 3,500 Parliamentary Questions answered, 4,000 letters written, 1,000 miles traveled on Ministerial duties by bus or train - "And", he said, "I have walked 500 miles"
5. Jammie Dodgergate (I will say no more)
6. Nicola Sturgeon's announcements - especially that Stracathro Patient Treatment facility was being returned to the NHS from the private sector; that the right-to-buy was being rolled back to protect social housing stock and that prescription charges were being abolished. Rolling back the privatisation of the NHS and working to ensure the availability of social housing for the most needy - surely these should be Labour party policies? Not any more - the SNP is the party for social justice, that protects the vulnerable and the needy in Scotland
7. Brian Taylor's sharp exit about a third of the way through Nicola Sturgeon's speech. You should know by now, Brian, that these things can go on for a while and if you needed to go, you should have gone before the start
8. David Kerr's short speech - he told us about Charlie Lunn, one of the founders of a local housing co-operative in the constituency. Charlie says he's voted Labour all his life . . . until now. And there are many more like Charlie in Glasgow NE . . . and after 74 years of Labour neglect they're turning to a party that will actually work to address their issues and their problems
9. The attendance - We had it confirmed that there were at least 400 people in the overspill venue for Alex's speech yesterday - which, by my reckoning, means that more people DIDN'T GET IN to listen to Alex than attended OVERALL at the last Scottish Labour Conference
10. Overall - the highlight of this conference will come on 12th November when we win Glasgow NE. There will be hundred's of activists heading to the constituency headquarters this weekend and every weekend until the by-election. Conference has lifted spirits, renewed vigour and inspired us to greater effort. The real rewards . . . and the real work, is still to come.
It's time.
Complain about this comment
#264. LOL Sorry, Dean, you picked a subject that irritates me no end not to mention making the weakest of unionist arguments. Being cheeky is, after all, allowed.
Complain about this comment
Watching yesterday's BBC broadcast from the SNP Conference.
Glenn Campbell and John Curtice both wearing red socks! Labour to their toes? :-)
Complain about this comment
#275. I noticed that. It was WEIRD. Was that some peculiar unpleasant serendipity or a political statement or what??!
Complain about this comment
I have just watched Glenn Campball trying to tie down AS on his choice of the future PM of the UK. It was like a little boy asking his dad for sweets and his dad saying no. I nearly felt sorry for him.
Was it me or was AS about to mention the 'glenncampbelly' word?
Complain about this comment
276. JRMacClure
"I noticed that. It was WEIRD. Was that some peculiar unpleasant serendipity or a political statement or what??!"
I could do 500 words on this. If the Mods weren't watching. [sycophantic gesture posing as friendly wave]
Complain about this comment
# 253 deanthetory
I was relieved to hear your thoughts on the 'Orange' question. Now all we need is to hear from Northighlander and Derek. I suspect Derek will keep his head down on this one, even though he has now managed to rid himself of the Irish way of spelling 'whisky'. Why did you change your spelling, Derek? Have you something to hide?
Complain about this comment
# 276 JRMacClure
No dress sense.
Complain about this comment
#278. Hope you tugged your forelock. Not a skill one wants to lose. ;-)
Complain about this comment
280. gedguy2
Now watch for them wearing Orange socks! :-)
Complain about this comment
#280. Yes, but they both simultaneously have the same lack of dress sense?
AND with socks that don't go high enough to cover their legs so they have all this white skin showing between livid red socks and their trousers.
Someone take the poor wee lads aside and explain that this should be criminal if it isn't.
Complain about this comment
281. JRMacClure
"Hope you tugged your forelock. Not a skill one wants to lose. ;-)"
Certainly not if Dean's devious plans for world domination come to fruition.
Complain about this comment
SNP Tactical Voting highlights Nicola Sturgeon's announcement of phasing out the right to buy social housing.
http://www.snptacticalvoting.com/2009/10/end-of-right-to-buy.html
"As Labour can neither agree nor disagree with Nicola Sturgeon on this matter, it makes sense that they merely change the subject."
Complain about this comment
J. Arthur McN..... positive about the Conference.
http://macnumpty.blogspot.com/2009/10/conference-call-revved-up-and-ready-to.html
Complain about this comment
I'm more than happy to publicise Tory and Labour responses to ending the right to buy.
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/politics/snp-demolishes-the-right-to-buy-1.926928
Labour’s health spokesperson Cathy Jamieson accused Ms Sturgeon of “completely missing the point” by tinkering with the right to buy instead of providing local authorities and housing associations with enough money to build more homes.
She claimed the Government was cutting the housing programme by £260million.
Tories denounced the scrapping of the right to buy for all new tenants as “political vandalism”.
Their housing spokeswoman Mary Scanlon said: “Over 400,000 families across Scotland have now fulfilled their aspiration of home ownership as a result of the Conservative policy of right to buy.
“It is a sad day for many people who hope that one day their status will change from tenant to owner.
“Future tenants will be denied the choice of home ownership due to the SNP political ideology taking priority over personal choice.”
Complain about this comment
Online Ed Here
277. At 9:56pm on 18 Oct 2009, gedguy2 wrote:
I have just watched Glenn Campball trying to tie down AS on his choice of the future PM of the UK. It was like a little boy asking his dad for sweets and his dad saying no. I nearly felt sorry for him.
Was it me or was AS about to mention the 'glenncampbelly' word?
Yes, Salmond all but told Glenn and us on the blogs that the SNP are well up to speed with the views of wee Glenn - I believe that Salmond using the 'Glenncampbellism' was more than a passing nod to those of us who contribute through cyberspace.
Incidently, Brownedov at 160 writes:
Re Newsnet Scotland Edition 4, safely received and an interesting read, but you should perhaps make your readers more aware that many email servers will treat it as "spam" due to the lack of individual addressing. MS Outlook can be set to recognise the originator as a "safe sender", but only if the message gets delivered to the inbox. Gmail and GMX seem to move it to a "spam" folder first, with correction only possible through their web interfaces.
Yes, I'm working on a solution. Not to get too technical but sending explicitly to every email address isn't possible as my ISP has a limit of 100 emails at any one time.
The language is java and I've managed a 'clever' work around that enables me to send over 300 emails for example at once in around 5-10 seconds.
However part of it involves using the:
msg.setRecipients(Message.RecipientType.BCC, addresses); statement - Where addresses is an array of InternetAddress objects, so no actual addresses in the To: field.
If you know any java programmers who might have a solution then feel free to drop me a line using Newsnet Scotland's general comment form, of course I won't be able to reply.
Like I say, it's a problem I am aware of. Thus far I have been able to accomplish everything using just my time and programming skills - no monetary costs. We'll see what the future brings though as more and more people show an interest in the publication.
Complain about this comment
# 283 JRMacClure
AND with socks that don't go high enough to cover their legs so they have all this white skin showing
Obviously you haven't seen a Scotsman on holiday. ;-)
Complain about this comment
Dean
I have told you before I live in the Kingdom.
If I had lived in Stirling I would have moved if Forsyth had been my MP. He has however my gratitude for almost destroying the torys in Scotland. Im glad that Cameron will be bringing him back to finally finish the job.
There was me thinking you were at that dinner in Milngavie, you must be in the same category as Mundell and Goldie, sometimes useful, but keep them in their place.
Complain about this comment
#289. At 10:27pm on 18 Oct 2009, gedguy2 wrote:
# 283 JRMacClure
Obviously you haven't seen a Scotsman on holiday. ;-)
LOL Actually, I have which explains my deleting "unattractive" from that sentence. Truthfully, the only way I get a tan myself is cheating with chemicals which I blame on some Celtic answers somewhere. =)
White skin is quite excusable in a Scot but NOT showing between your socks and your trousers. LOL
Complain about this comment
Politics Show today. Interesting that Mundell hasn't yet recognised that Scotland has moved beyond the "Governor-General" stage.
"I'm getting on at the moment with the job that's important to me. That there is a Conservative Government, so that there is a Conservative Secretary of State for Scotland".
Mundell wants English votes to determine who decides the amount of the block grant to Scotland.
Complain about this comment
oldnat re 287
Jamieson must think that we have memories like hers and have forgotten the amount of social housing built during the eight years of Labour/Lib Dem miss rule.
Six houses built, thats less than one per year. A record to be proud off Cathy.
Complain about this comment
#287. Am I correct in understanding that you think ending "the right to buy" is a bad idea?
I can't say I understand the complexities although it seems to me from the VERY little I do know, that arguments could be made on both sides.
Complain about this comment
#291 answers - ancestors
However, having such is probably the only explanation from my pale complexion. *sigh* Spent my entire life being made fun of by tanned contemporaries.
Complain about this comment
288. U14094468
"However part of it involves using the:
msg.setRecipients(Message.RecipientType.BCC, addresses); statement - Where addresses is an array of InternetAddress objects, so no actual addresses in the To: field."
Have you tried setting one email addy using msg.setRecipients(Message.RecipientType.TO, addresses1), and then add the mailing list by msg.addRecipients(Message.RecipientType.BCC, addresses2)
adresses1 being an array with 1 email addy, and addresses2 being the mailing list ?
Complain about this comment
294. JRMacClure
"I can't say I understand the complexities although it seems to me from the VERY little I do know, that arguments could be made on both sides."
It's another example of short-sighted Thatcherite deviousness. The idea was to put a financial noose around the necks of the working class, while lining the pockets of the Tories' friends in the financial sector. The long-term consequences were never considered.
Local authorities were forced to sell off the best of their housing stock without being allowed to keep any of the revenue, which had to be used to offset rates (property taxes). So they were left with the debt on the good housing stock along with the burden of the poor housing stock. There were fewer houses for low-income families, while property owners received an additional taxpayer-funded subsidy.
An obvious recipe for disaster.
People took on debt to buy their council houses at substantial discounts. They were then encouraged to take on further debt for home improvements (or holidays, or cars or anything at all) secured on the remaining equity in their home plus ludicrous multipliers based on fantasy projections of eternally soaring property values.
The result?
CRASH!
Bottom falls out of housing market. Millions of people left with negative equity practically overnight. And not just the ones who were foolish. Even a relative safe gearing of 75% is no help when 50% is wiped off the value of your house. An avalanche of repossessions and untold misery for millions of people.
And Tories wonder why that vile woman is so heartily despised.
What would have been a good idea would have been
Complain about this comment
http://deadlinescotland.wordpress.com/2009/10/18/10727-2010/
Gandhi's Grandson backs Justice Secretary, condemns "revenge motivation" of opponents.
Complain about this comment
At last the 'right to buy' is dead - where is its grave, it's not often i'll dance!
Complain about this comment
Forsyth is coming back? ... if this story runs, do the tories seriously think they can hang on to their single seat in Scotland!
Complain about this comment
#297. Ah. Thanks for the explanation. I was, not too surprisingly, unaware that the housing authority was not allowed to keep the revenue. That makes no sense! As is generally the case, the devil is in the details.
I do appreciate your patience in explaining these things when they go flying over my head. :)
Complain about this comment
Sorry! Hit the Post button instead of Preview.
I was going to say that a better idea might have been a right to sell. Giving local authorities the right to sell selected properties so as to raise revenue for further social housing projects. But Thatcher, like her acolytes in NuLabour, hated local authorities. As with Disciple Blair, she was obsessed with centralisation and control. Local authorities and the unions were her particular enemies she went to war with both, catastrophically dividing the country in the process.
I'm going to leave it there. That repulsive woman is one of the very few people on this planet who can still make me angry.
Complain about this comment
! Off topic !
Sorry, but just in case anyone is interested in a plain english teardown of the financial and 'business' mechanics of the financial crisis - rolling stone has an excellent article by Matt Taibbi - Wall Street's Naked Swindle
Complain about this comment
Sometimes people know when their associations are seen as extreme and try to keep the flow of information to a minimum - House of Commons computer used to hide past of Tory ally Kaminski
Complain about this comment
@293 "Six houses built, thats less than one per year. A record to be proud off Cathy."
Small correction - the figure of six is for the last TERM of the Lib/Lab executive, not their entire administration, so it's a whole 1.5 per year...
Complain about this comment
I reckon that the Glen Campbell mannie is a double agent. Every time he opens his mouth it’s a shot in the arm for the SNP.
The big question for me is how are they paying him. Could it be in biscuits? And if it is, and it’s Tunnock’s Caramel Wafers I’d be really envious. I might even put my foot in my mouth too for a Caramel Wafer.
But there is value to be had in listening; he had me laughing out loud. I hope no one at the BBC notices and takes him off the air before the election.
Complain about this comment
By the way, I thought the Andrew Marr(sp?) interview seemed quite reasonable. Decent questions and fairly accepting of the fact that Mr. Salmond isn't receptive to being interrupted in his answers.
Complain about this comment
306. oldteuchter
"I might even put my foot in my mouth too for a Caramel Wafer."
If your mouth is full of foot, where are you planning on putting the Caramel Wafer?
Complain about this comment
Admit it; this BBC headline is snicker-worthy.
Cameron foresees 'battle' ahead
Conservative leader David Cameron admitted his party faces a "battle" in the Glasgow North East by-election as he joined the campaign trail.
Complain about this comment
From the Herald (no byline, so presumably the editorial)
http://www.heraldscotland.com/comment/herald-view/does-the-snp-still-do-exactly-what-it-says-on-the-tin-1.926956
"If the SNP keeps the Queen, the Bank of England, the pound sterling, British military bases, Her Majesty’s embassies, a unitary NHS and a host of other common UK institutions, there arises a serious question of what the nationalists mean now by independence. Or to put it another way, if Scotland became independent under the SNP, how would you tell? Would Scotland really look much different to how it looks today, apart from having a parliament with greater powers of taxation and borrowing?"
An interesting comment. Apart from the gross error of thinking that there is a single NHS system in the UK (there are four), the Herald seems to have finally tumbled to the reality that there isn't going to be a revolutionary change on Day One of Independence, on a number of issues.
There will be a process of disentanglement as the Scottish Parliament, representing the Scottish people, decides what is best for us - while ensuring that the people's rights are not eroded without our having a direct say. The article talks of a "new Unionism" - quite rightly. The Union is Europe, and Scotland will make a number of mutually advantageous arrangements with other European countries including Rump UK.
Where does this recent stuff about the monarchy come from btw? I don't remember any time when it was SNP policy was anything other than that the question of a monarchy was a post-independence question for the people to decide. Like Australia's continuing debate as to whether to be a republic or not, it doesn't affect the reality of independence one jot.
Complain about this comment
290. At 10:29pm on 18 Oct 2009, dubbieside wrote:
"Dean
There was me thinking you were at that dinner in Milngavie, you must be in the same category as Mundell and Goldie, sometimes useful, but keep them in their place."
I am not exactly enough of an important figure [yet] in the party to even merit recognition by my lords and masters in the party.
But as for Goldie and Mundel...sigh...keeping the queen of the south out of the meeting I understand but poor young Goldie- she should have been invited.
Complain about this comment
306. oldteuchter
"The big question for me is how are they paying him. Could it be in biscuits?"
He said that he was partial to a "mini-roll". Good taste prevents me from making the obvious comment! :-)
Complain about this comment
Oldnat:
your such a tease bringing up 'right to buy'. You know what that subject does to me.
[for those that do not regularly read here- it makes me sound like Thatcher in drag at times].
But seriously- did you happen to read up on Cllr Neil Benny in Stirling Council- he launched an exceptionally clever assault on the SNP over this [I know I was there as his intern]. He outlined how the CONSERVATIVE right to buy freed the masses and was IN REALITY the single biggest act of REDISTRIBUTION in BRITISH history.
The SNP are making a mistake, but I can understand the merits of abolishing the scheme. Perhaps it has fulfilled its purpose, and its time to try new solutions?
Complain about this comment
"SNP EURO DIVISIONS LAID BARE"
It seems my lot arent the only ones unable to agree on the euro isuse:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/8311435.stm
Personally I want to have the euro currency seriosuly considered as an alternative to the pound sterling - open mind is all, not neccessarily adoption...but nothing should be ruled out understand.
Complain about this comment
is anyone else wondering about nefarious allegations against Forsyth and his apparent reappearance in politics ?
Complain about this comment
310. oldnat
"I don't remember any time when it was SNP policy was anything other than that the question of a monarchy was a post-independence question for the people to decide."
They are all questions to be decided post-independence by the people of Scotland. That is what will be different. That is the point that The Herald has missed.
Complain about this comment
313. deanthetory
"lr Neil Benny"
Like you, Councillor Benny is not old enough to have any memory of tha dark days when Thatcher squatted over the land. Which only makes his parroting of Tory propaganda even less convincing.
Complain about this comment
313. deanthetory
"Perhaps it has fulfilled its purpose..."
Undoubtedly. The shackles of debt have been well and truly forged.
Complain about this comment
313. deanthetory
"but I can understand the merits of abolishing the scheme."
Indeed. There was a problem with the way that Labour used low council house rents as a vote gathering strategy before the right to buy was introduced. However, the Thatcher strategy was as ideologically and party politically driven as Labour's was.
Neither of these UK parties actually considered the needs of people -they simply looked at party advantage. The huge problem with the current distribution of social housing is that it concentrates the poor, the disadvantaged etc into ghettos.
There were better methods of improving the social mix being used in some local authorities in Scotland prior to the right to buy being introduced. For example, in Paisley "homesteading" (selling a proportion of public housing from the exterior of the scheme inwards) was being pursued by the Labour council. Airdrie(?) had a policy of moving anti-social families a couple of times, if necessary, to force them into being reasonable neighbours, but in the few occasions where that failed they were moved to an area set aside for anti social tenants.
"Re-distribution" isn't just about money. It's also about the quality of life. The Tory right to buy (adopted by Labour) was about concentrating deprivation. Try looking at the postcodes of pupils from Special Schools (as I have done) and you will see the consequence of the policies of your party and your provisional wing.
Complain about this comment
DeanTheTory:
#314.
"It seems my lot arent the only ones unable to agree on the euro isuse:"
I didn't take you for a headline grabber. The article clearly states there was division over the Euro, referendum or not while a very small minority supported independence without the Euro.
It's certainly not the same as your lot. The Europe package is a whole issue for your group.
Complain about this comment
317.
Not old enough? What age do you think he is? He grew up in the 1980s [as a socialist back then insidently].
Makes you look a whole lt stupid eh? Learn about a subject before mouthing off, just like Labour arent you?
Complain about this comment
DeanTheTory:
#313.
"But seriously- did you happen to read up on Cllr Neil Benny in Stirling Council- he launched an exceptionally clever assault on the SNP over this [I know I was there as his intern]. He outlined how the CONSERVATIVE right to buy freed the masses and was IN REALITY the single biggest act of REDISTRIBUTION in BRITISH history."
It's quite ashame you can not see beyond the ideological lines. I do not believe a person has doubted the social changes from the right to buy but you'll admitt there is a shortage of homes, private homes are beyond the reach of ordinary individuals and surely we should control as many homes as possible instead of letting the private market continue their iron grip, do you believe the right to buy should NEVER be abolished?
"The SNP are making a mistake, but I can understand the merits of abolishing the scheme. Perhaps it has fulfilled its purpose, and its time to try new solutions?"
The SNP are not making a mistake. The mistake was that right to buy was unsustainable without proper investment. Labour and Liberal Democrats failed to invest and now the SNP are ensuring we do ensure a healthy stock of affordable homes, isn't that reasonable?
Besides I doubt that even with unlimited amounts of housing the right to buy would be sustainable. The price of land is simply too high to continue purchasing land and selling it back on the cheap. The world and circumstances has changes and policies will have to change to match aswell.
Complain about this comment
That Herald editorial, although it contained several inaccuracies such as the NHS thing and the sterling (why didn't they know those things?), was as close as you're going to come, I suspect, to a newspaper supporting the SNP.
I would translate it loosely as: we can support them because they are only asking for a "sorta" independence and we'll never really be independent even though we probably will kind-of, so it's all right if we don't say horrid things about them.
I have felt that more and more The Herald was tilting toward at least not attacking the SNP if not supporting them. Obviously, I could easily be wrong and they might do a full-scale slash and burn tomorrow but I think it's a possibility.
Complain about this comment
This site doesn't appear to accept comments. However, I'd be interested in dean's view of a Tory site that wants to silence the SNP leader.
http://www.torybear.com/2009/10/cartoon-leaping-salmond-edition.html#comments
Complain about this comment
#324. My, what a courageous blogger.
Afraid of debating with Alex Salmond or the reader.
Complain about this comment
Speaking of The Herald, this is worth reading if you missed it as I nearly did:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/oct/18/alex-salmond-trident-gandhi
Complain about this comment
326. JRMacClure
McWhirter in a recent article described himself as a "natural Labour supporter" - which I presume meant that he embraced the Nordic Social Democratic view of politics. That view eschews the British polarisation of identical parties as between a pretend "Right" and a pretend "Left", but concentrates on what is best for the people of the country.
What position can any reasonable person in Scotland take on that Left/Right argument than the position taken by the SNP? The other dimensions of politics, of course, are equally important -
Aggressive/interventionist foreign policy? Lab/Con for : SNP against.
WMD? Lab/Con for : SNP against.
Complain about this comment
I couldn't resist sending a message (they don't seem to have an email address but do have a 'contact us' page) to The Herald pointing out that rationally discussing independence was admirable, but that it would be even more admirable if they got their facts straight and that if an American knew there wasn't a "unitary NHS" that they should. (pardon the run-on sentence lol)
Complain about this comment
#327. What position can any reasonable person in Scotland take on that Left/Right argument than the position taken by the SNP?
But you're asking reasonableness from news journalists in Scotland. That has been hard to come by. Surely, you have to admit that.
Complain about this comment
Whilst the law are correctly enforcing equal opportunity and racial dscrimination legislation against the BNP, it would be interesting to see where is leaves the orange lodge?
Do the orange lodge permit catholics to join them? If not, why not?
This sad bunch of misfits, with their sectarian bile should be conciled to the garbage bin of history where they truely belong. There should be no place in a modern Scotland for them or the hatered they wish to perpetuate.
D McN
Complain about this comment
http://mypseudepigrapha.blogspot.com/
Really requires no comment.
Complain about this comment
Thanks JR !
Had'nt come accross Conans blog before , I am thoroughly impressed( I doubt if the Scotsman would be )
Conan, if you are out there , terrfic stuff!
Complain about this comment
Curious headline inside the Scotsman:
"Orange Order Ignites SNP"
The story underneath was straightforward enough, but methinks a touch of English As She is Wrote in the header
Complain about this comment
333. That's a bizarre headline even for The Scotsman.
Interesting statement from the Orange Order's Ian Wilson, ""There is no question in my mind that the biggest problem facing Scotland at the moment is the growth of Scottish nationalism...."
Very understated response from the SNP actually which is wise under the circumstances.
Complain about this comment
Anyone read Mr Cochranes little piece in the Telegraph?
Did anyone read his wifes little piece in the Sunday Times ?
Dear God!
Complain about this comment
Incidentally, I thought this Scotsman headline was darn odd:
"SNP left turn as right to buy is ditched"
speaking of English as She is Wrote. I read it. "...left turn as right..." Read it again. Read it again. And had to laugh.
WHO does their headlines?
Complain about this comment
After a weekend where the Scotsman wasn't as rabidly anti-SNP as usual and the Herald nearly neutral, anyone feeling nostalgia for good old-fashioned Nat-bashing may have missed the fragrant Ms Hjul's Independence lite is a lure for political malcontents in the Sunday Thunderer, with her novel view that: "It is, therefore, the very implausibility of independence that contributes to nationalist success in Scotland. Voters are humouring Salmond."
Complain about this comment
Read the rant in the Sunday Times. I swear she much have been traumatized as an infant by a nationalist. She is the next thing to irrational on the subject.
Haven't gotten to tonight's paper. I'm drinking a glass of wine and convincing myself I can sleep. It's only 2am.
Complain about this comment
# 330 Donald_McNairn
This is a very good point and I'm not too sure of the legalities of this; maybe someone out there can advise us. If it is illegal for a party to be racist then surely it must be illegal to be bigotted? I suspect that this would not be the case in the UK as the monarchy and their anti-catholic stance would fall of this law.
Complain about this comment
On the Orange Order support for Labour...
They state a membership of 50,000... but surely as 48,750'ish of them would be lucky to be able to stagger (knuckles dragging) from one door to the other to deliver leaflets (whilst carrying their Buckie bottles), the help realistically is not going to ammount to much?
Complain about this comment
@337 "Back in the real world, support for independence remains stubbornly low — 30% at the highest, on a good day, and with the question loaded in the nationalists’ favour."
How is Hjul allowed to get away with flat-out empirical lies like that?
Complain about this comment
As the Union supporting media look for ever more things to bash the SNP with the position of the monarchy is just another one. It is not important at this stage of the game but the media try to tempt the SNP into a discussion about it in an attempt to find something else to bash them with. It's a non-subject and a distraction until after independence!
I still don't know how Campbell is getting away with his style of interviewing, after watching his interview with Alex Salmond again. His ploy seems to be to goad Salmond into some kind of over the top reaction. Hope Alex can keep his cool and at the same time demonstrate to the viewers what a T***t Campbell is.
Even Brian seemed a little bit subdued by Salmond's responses to some of his questions (a bit of decency showing through?), but Campbell seems to be something else, certainly not of the human race.
Complain about this comment
London Evening Standard
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23757988-mps-ready-to-quit-rather-than-pay-back-expenses.do
"Five Labour MPs are threatening Gordon Brown with hugely damaging by-elections if they are ordered to pay back their expenses."
Can't see it actually happening, but the collapse of discipline in Labour is fun to watch!
Complain about this comment
321. deanthetory
"Not old enough? What age do you think he is?"
Councillor Benny is 27 years old. Which means he was still a child when Thatcher was wreaking her havoc. No more than eight years old when the harridan was finally taken off our backs.
Complain about this comment
323. JRMacClure
"I have felt that more and more The Herald was tilting toward at least not attacking the SNP if not supporting them. Obviously, I could easily be wrong and they might do a full-scale slash and burn tomorrow but I think it's a possibility."
I don't think you're wrong. I used to wonder if the The Herald only seemed balanced and fair being flattered by the contrast with The Sowhatsman. But it does seem to be a genuine softening of its stance towards the SNP. Driven, I suspect, by an awareness of how the winds of public opinion are shifting. And a desire to distance itself from an increasingly rabid Tory/BLP alliance?
Complain about this comment
333. Caledonian54
"Curious headline inside the Scotsman:
"Orange Order Ignites SNP""
Obvious tactic. Associate the loonies with the SNP rather than Labour. Standard Sowhatsman propaganda.
Complain about this comment
336. JRMacClure
"WHO does their headlines?"
A guy called Josey Goebbels.
Complain about this comment
337. Brownedov
"Voters are humouring Salmond"
Aye! That's what voters do, right enough. They say to themselves, "I don't really like the SNP or anything they stand for. But I'll vote for them anyway, just to string that Salmond along.".
You hear in the pubs and on the streets every day. Honest!
The woman's a bloody Fjul!
Complain about this comment
342. hamish42
"...Campbell seems to be something else, certainly not of the human race."
Bit harsh there, Hamish. Is that not precisely the kind of "over the top" reaction Alex manages to resist? Leave the hate-speak to Goldie and her unionist allies at Holyrood, Gray, Foulkes and the one that won't fit in the pantomime horse.
Complain about this comment
Conan touches on it, and he is right to: how will the large block of catholic labour voters react to the Orange order coming out against the SNP?
By the way Conan, well done, your blog is hilarious!!!
Complain about this comment
349. Electric Hermit
"...Gray, Foulkes and the one that won't fit in the pantomime horse."
Tavish! I remembered!
Complain about this comment
#341 Rev_S_Campbell
"How is Hjul allowed to get away with flat-out empirical lies like that?"
First, never forget that the Thunderer now shares a proprietor with the Sun. Second, unlike the BBC there is no requirement on the dead-tree press to be politically impartial, just as - again unlike the BBC - there is no requirement for us to pay for their output.
You do have to smile at her latest "analysis" of why her lot are losing, though.
#348 Electric Hermit
Re "Voters are humouring Salmond"
"Aye! That's what voters do, right enough. They say to themselves, "I don't really like the SNP or anything they stand for. But I'll vote for them anyway, just to string that Salmond along.".
You hear in the pubs and on the streets every day. Honest!"
Precisely so. Worth posting on her "article", I think.
Complain about this comment
#305: Rev_S_Campbell -
A couple of quick points on the repeal of the right to buy -
Firstly; a lot (Most?) social housing is now owned by Housing Associations. I think (please can someone correct me if I'm wrong) that Housing Association tenants have no right to buy their house from the Association. So this isn't exactly a polar shift - it's the reality for a lot of social housing tenants already.
Secondly; the SNP's roll-back of the right to buy is surely only significant because this SNP government are actually building houses. As has been pointed out above; in their last term, the Lib/Lab Administration built a massive 1.5 houses a year. Perhaps they should have rolled back the right to buy for new tenants, and taken the credit - and then had all six of the households affected round for a nice cup of tea.
The story, with regard to the right to buy, isn't the repeal itself - it's the fact that this Government is actually building new housing for the needy and disadvantaged - something the Labour Party have shamefully failed to do
Complain about this comment
I have just watched the Politics Show again.
I am horrified at the Ms Renton piece which is simply dishonest , but I am much cheered to watch Mr Salmond tell Glenn Campbell , very clearly , where to get off.
I just loved it!
Particularly the ungracious ending of the interview.
Could anyone tell me just when the BBBC used the News of the World , the Sunday Mail and the Sunday Mirror as example newspapers?
Perhaps when Tommy Sheridan was getting gross attention?
I did think they tried to confine themselves to the more " intellectual" vitriolic press of Scotland.I did'nt think they would stoop so low as to quote the News of the World, it really made me laugh.
Complain about this comment
#343 oldnat
What's the problem? If Gordon can put off Glasgow North East for 6 months he can easily put off 5 other bye-elections till the GE.
Complain about this comment
What was Mr Salmond talking about re-Westminster Hung Parliament, I think the operative word here might be 'HUNG' but I'd add in 'DRAWN' & 'QUARTERED' for good measure! I can just imagine the Westminster skull duggery / carvery going on's to spoil Mr Salmond's wish list of MP's
Complain about this comment
#343 oldnat
"Can't see it actually happening, but the collapse of discipline in Labour is fun to watch!"
Agreed, and thanks for the link. American poultry, polling booths and winter festivals spring to mind. On discipline, their comment on the fragrant Harriet [court of public opinion] Harman was most apposite:
"The threats from Labour backbenchers could explain why Commons Leader Harriet Harman last week hit out at the "arbitrary" nature of Sir Thomas's proposals and said MPs should only be judged by the rules as they applied at the time. Ms Harman was today due to set out her position to Parliament. But senior Commons officials say she has repeatedly changed it, leaving the Government's stance in confusion."
Complain about this comment
353. Bandages_For_Konjic
I believe Housing Association housing is subject to 'right to buy'.
It basically applies to any housing which may be seen as a common/societal asset, private landlords (individual or company level) are the only rented housing to which 'right to buy' doesn't apply. That's why it constitutes little more than commons stripping.
Complain about this comment
I see the usual culprits are struggling to come to terms with the political nous shown, yet again, by Wee Eck.
Dean - can you explain why the Tories are looking to ennoble a Scottish (Etonian?) Tory of standing - front page,Sunday Herald - (aka Alex Ferguson)to be 'Secretary of State for Scotland' on the grounds that the party in London does not consider its current Scottish MP or any of those standing in Scotland as PPC to be 'suitable material' and are a 'liability' if they had to take on Wee Eck?
Current voting intentions in Scotland suggest 20+ SNP seats. My guess for Perth and Kinross is the Libdems will sneak in again, just like West Fife, as the SNP and Tories split the vote. Your current candidate is no Nicholas Fairbairn... that's for sure.
The Unionists will just continue to; '...scream and scream and scream, until they are sick.' The problem is Wee Eck will not be giving in to their 'Elizabeth Bott' tantrums.
Complain about this comment
Those of you too young to remember the Parliaments of 1950, 1964 and Feb 1974, might find this reminder by William Rees-Mogg in the Times useful.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/william_rees_mogg/article6880057.ece
"The election of 2010 will be very important, but a second election in 2011 might prove even more historic."
Complain about this comment
358. mrbfaethedee
"I believe Housing Association housing is subject to 'right to buy'."
Charitable housing associations are excluded from Right To Buy. As are any properties which have special facilities for the elderly or disabled.
Complain about this comment
If labour seek some form of partnership with the orange order, what credibility would they have with the catholic members of our community through out Scotland?
Surely labour are not that stupid or crass?
D McN
Complain about this comment
#313: Deanthetory -
"your such a tease bringing up 'right to buy'. You know what that subject does to me.
[for those that do not regularly read here- it makes me sound like Thatcher in drag at times]."
Actually; you sound like "Thatcher in drag" (great image, by the way) pretty much all of the time.
"But seriously- did you happen to read up on Cllr Neil Benny in Stirling Council- he launched an exceptionally clever assault on the SNP over this [I know I was there as his intern]. He outlined how the CONSERVATIVE right to buy freed the masses and was IN REALITY the single biggest act of REDISTRIBUTION in BRITISH history."
Come on, Dean - credit where credit's due, according to your own, nauseatingly sycophantic
blog entry, Neil called it "the most radical and innovative [act of financial redistribution] in the world" - in the world Dean!
The most radical and innovative act of financial redistribution in the world. Nobody has ever given to the poor what the right to buy has given to the needy in Stirling - St Francis of Assisi, Karl Marx, Robin Hood - none of them gave to the poor like Stirling Council.
Okay; let's take a quick, non-sycophantic squint at the arguments, shall we? Your man Benny seems to be saying, as far as I can make out, reading between the hyperbole - that revenues from the right to buy are re-invested by Stirling Council to build new homes.
Prove it. Show us where the revenues were invested, when they were invested and tell us how many houses were built. Unless you can provide some evidence, I'm going to have to assume that, as usual, you're spouting nothing more than hot air.
See, we know, as Electric Hermit has already said; "Local authorities were forced to sell off the best of their housing stock without being allowed to keep any of the revenue, which had to be used to offset rates (property taxes). "
Now, I'm know you're about to argue that this is no longer the case - after all, the Tories invented the Poll TAx to get round the problem of low rates revenues (And we all know how well that worked out for them, don't we?) but, even if the money's not going to offset rates (or council tax) - my bet is that it's not being spent to build social housing either - and I challenge you to prove otherwise.
For example; it's common knowledge that the Raploch redevelopment in Stirling was paid for with European money - not with revenues raised from council house sales. So where, in Stirling, is the new social housing that this money's building? (Be aware, if you're not already, that I know the area well and will be able to tell if you're lying)
Furthermore; as I've already mentioned on this blog, as far as I know a significant proportion of council housing was passed directly into the hands of the Housing Associations (Forth Valley Housing Association, I think, in Stirling's case) and housing association tenants have no right to buy. So how many households renting in Stirling actually have the right to buy? (You needn't be exact - a figure to the nearest hundred will suffice)
Lastly; in order to be successful, this scheme as your chum Benny has outlined it is dependent on at least as many new houses being built, in any one year, as are sold. Otherwise the money will simply dry up. So, where's the evidence that this is happening? I know Stirling pretty well and I'd love to know where this social housing is springing up, year on year on year.
So, I'm betting that "The most radical and innovative act of financial redistribution in the world" is actually, in the real world, simply further evidence, if such were needed that the Tories are the lowest, most shameless liars and misrepresenters of the truth in the world
Prove me wrong.
Complain about this comment
This comment has been referred to the moderators. Explain.
Poor Alastair Darling. How often did he flip his main residence?
http://blogs.channel4.com/snowblog/2009/10/19/why-sir-thomas-legg-is-far-from-over/
Complain about this comment
I had to E-mail the Orange Order of Scotland...
_________________________________________________________________________
Dear Sirs,
I just wanted to write to thank you for your reported support of the Labour Party in Scotland. As a Nationalist, I couldn't have imagined a better PR stunt in support of Scottish Independence.
I would urge you and your members to push this political line from now up until the General Election and indeed, would thank you most kindly for your efforts.
There is just one reported issue (which I would hope is not true?) and that is the report that the Orange Order would attempt to turn to a para-military solution should the Scottish People choose full independence from the UK.
Just a word on this... this is not Northern Ireland, it is Scotland. The simple outcome of any attempt to develop this as a serious political way forward would almost certainly end with the complete demise of your organisation in Scotland forever.
I am fairly certain however, that (if true) this is just bluster from the unionist position, which is identified by a fear of change and of the future allied with a false sence of comfort from historical past events.
In summary, thank you again for your current position on this matter and I look forward to further developments.
Regards,
A very happy and proud Scot.
Ps. I am also a Humanist (Google it if unsure what that is)
_________________________________________________________________________
Complain about this comment
Not much reference to the Oranginas coming out in support of Labour on the BBC website ... would've been nice to know what the Scottish Labour reaction to it is ...
Complain about this comment
I suppose i batter add my 10 pence worth. Those people saying that the right to buy takes houses out of the rental market and deprives people of somewhere to live are missing one vital point. If somebody has been renting a house for 8 years and they then buy it that house is not one less house for the council to rent out as the people that buy it are living in it and it wasnt ever going to be available to be rented out anyway. When you sell the house it doesnt just vanish all that happens is you have one less house and one less tennant. Also you have one less house to maintain. I bought my house and even though we got a large discount when you look at the money i had to spend (new kitchen/bathroom fireplace) the discount comes in handy. Somebody pointed out that the tories used this policy to sell off all the rubbish housing stock and i can believe that... Obviously it would have been an alright policy if the money was reinvested in new housing stock and those houses being not available to buy for 20 years or so or possibly never.
Complain about this comment
#351 Electric Hermit
Now, that would be a pantomime horse to see. The only one in the world with a Tory Head and three (insert less polite word for) backsides !
Complain about this comment
361. Electric Hermit
"Charitable housing associations are excluded from Right To Buy. As are any properties which have special facilities for the elderly or disabled."
Fair enough - those associations registered with charitable status prior to 2001 are exempt.
My point is that almost all mainstream social housing is subject to 'right to buy'.
Complain about this comment
368. ubinworryinmasheep
"Obviously it would have been an alright policy if the money was reinvested in new housing stock and those houses being not available to buy for 20 years or so or possibly never."
If selling off old council stock to sell new stock which was ringfenced was what actually happened, then it would be an altogether more complicated discussion.
I totally understand how some people benefitted from being able to buy the council house they had rented for many years. That doesn't, of itself, make it a good policy. There are people who lived in some of these houses before the tenants who got to buy it, and there are people who could have lived in the houses after - they don't get anything out of it. The money that has been sunk into the house in terms of building and maintenance is effectively gifted to the private sector, helping to fuel the housing bubble. So while some people undoubtedly benefitted, the policy effectively transferred public resources into the private sector.
Complain about this comment
#368: ubinworryinmasheep -
Except that - when the system's working properly - social housing tenants don't live in their council house ad infinitum - they move in; their rent's lower than their mortgage payments would be; allowing them to save a deposit to put down on a mortgage and move out.
Same number of houses - one less tenant.
But you're quite right, the Tories did use this policy to dodge expensive maintenance and improvement works - I could tell you one story about an old lady who bought her council flat for £10,000 and was then immediately landed with a bill for £11,000 for her share of the cost of improvements to the building.
Beware of Tories bearing gifts . . .
And yes, it might have been an alright policy if the money was invested in new housing stock but it wasn't.
Complain about this comment
352. Brownedov
"Precisely so. Worth posting on her "article", I think."
I have done so. Along with the following, which I thought I would share with you,
"Ms Hjul appears to be of the opinion that a people's aspiration to national independence is not valid or genuine unless it is expressed in the kind of strident, obsessive, jingoistic nationalism that is alien to Scottish politics; anathema to Scottish sensibilities; and antithetical to the pragmatic, civic nationalism espoused by the SNP.
That Scotland will eventually secede from the redundant and anachronistic union is pretty much taken for granted now. There is no need for any clamour of insistent demands. The die is cast. The path has been chosen, and we are quite content to proceed along that path at a pace of our own choosing - eschewing reckless haste in favour of purposeful progress.
Do not mistake caution for fear.
Do not mistake calm for inaction.
Do not mistake silence for the want of a voice.
Do not mistake patience for a lack of determination."
Complain about this comment
368. ubinworryinmasheep
"Those people saying that the right to buy takes houses out of the rental market and deprives people of somewhere to live are missing one vital point."
Nobody is saying this. What they are saying is that it reduces the stock of affordable social housing. Unless that stock is replenished. Which has not happened under British Labour Party administrations.
Complain about this comment
Online Ed Here
296. At 10:45pm on 18 Oct 2009, mrbfaethedee wrote:
288. U14094468
"However part of it involves using the:
msg.setRecipients(Message.RecipientType.BCC, addresses); statement - Where addresses is an array of InternetAddress objects, so no actual addresses in the To: field."
Have you tried setting one email addy using msg.setRecipients(Message.RecipientType.TO, addresses1), and then add the mailing list by msg.addRecipients(Message.RecipientType.BCC, addresses2)
adresses1 being an array with 1 email addy, and addresses2 being the mailing list ?
Thanks for the suggestion.
Complain about this comment
370. mrbfaethedee
"
My point is that almost all mainstream social housing is subject to 'right to buy'."
That seems fair as a general statement. Although there are "complicating factors".
Complain about this comment
The right to buy argument is a simple one.
There were too many houses for rent and too few affordable for ownership prior to the scheme.
Now after the scheme has allowed people to purchase their homes, a great many did. My old street (about 26 houses) are now all privately owned.
There are now plenty of homes available to purchase and not enough for rent. Building homes for rental only will move to balancing this scenario.
Simples.
I do believe that people who have lived in their rented homes should be given one final offer of purchase with the discounts offered prior to the change taking effect though... that is only fair.
Complain about this comment
Online Ed Here
A second comment from myself containing the transcript of Catriona Renton's broadcast on yesterdays politics show has been removed by the mods, if it ever appeared at all.
Suffice to say that my comment contained less by way of fabrication than Miss Renton's.
Bad journalism deserves to be highlighted, as does the blatant and demonstrable practice of attributing views to someone that they did not express.
The removal of the comment has annoyed me, if only the BBC were as quick to censor inaccurate broadcasts !!
Complain about this comment
#373 Electric Hermit
"I have done so."
Thanks - duly recommended.
"Along with the following, which I thought I would share with you"
It's as well you did, since the Thunderer's mods are clearly less godlike than our own and have buried it without trace, unless my ISP is caching again. But well said anyway.
Complain about this comment
377. BoNG0_1
"I do believe that people who have lived in their rented homes should be given one final offer of purchase with the discounts offered prior to the change taking effect though"
There will be no change for existing tenants. The new social housing build, though will not be available for purchase.
Complain about this comment
#377
The change will only apply to new tenancies. Existing tenants can still buy.
Complain about this comment
Ludovic Kennedy has died. I always had great admiration for him. This from his obituary.
"He did not stand for Parliament again but continued to play an active role in Liberal party politics, though, as an ardent advocate of Scottish independence he would later resign from the Scottish Liberal Party over their refusal to align themselves with the SNP."
Complain about this comment
It seems that the BBC has few if any friends among the political classes. The Tories say they will break up the BBC, Labour (in London at least) saying they are not happy with the BBC's 'impartiality' and of course when Scotland gets her independence BBC Scotland will be yesterday's news.
#349
Yes I admit it was a bit harsh, very unlike me!
Complain about this comment
379. Brownedov
"It's as well you did, since the Thunderer's mods are clearly less godlike than our own and have buried it without trace..."
I have previously noted that they are a bit touchy about anything which is directly critical of their columnists.
Complain about this comment
Thanks Oldnat, that answers my concerns.
Complain about this comment
I find it so typical of the BBC that prides itself of partiality the it is so pro-union.It's political coverage over the weekend was so disgraceful, I was actually shouting at the screen. Though if there was one thing that really has gotten my blood boiling was last last year's EU elections where in every list of the standing parties, the SNP were placed right next to the detestable BNP therefore implying association
If it is true, that the Orange Order will now canvass for Labour, will Purcell & his labour cronies suddenly change their minds on cutting the number of marches in Glasgow so as to appease their new bedfellows
Complain about this comment
I've just been looking at the candidates for the Glasgow NE by-election on the BBC here. Just a couple of wee points that I would wish to lay before you:
1. There was only one candidate's religion 'advertised' on this list; David Kerr's. Why would that be?
2. Labour's Willie Bain said that he would, 'never claim lavish expenses and never milk the system'. Who could he possibly be referring to?
Complain about this comment
330. Donald_McNairn
Sir
I regularly view this blog but until now have resisted the temptation to post. I am from a predominantly protestant community and am proud of the heritage we have, in much the same way the Catholic community are of theirs.
I am also ambivalent on the Independence Question, but reading the type of posts and language used by yourself and others, inclines me against nationalism because it seems to have a very intolerant edge to it, as demonstrated in your post.
In Scotland we have many different communities that by and large live peacefully and respect each other. I do not begrudge or belittle any other community, I live by the live and let live principle.
The SNP candidate in the forthcoming by-election is a member of a very exclusive religious sect with some very dubious links, but this does not mean he should be abused in any way, we live in a supposedly free country.
Therefore I would suggest that you should moderate the language and show a little respect.
The sectarian problem in Scotland has two sides, as long as the government of the day sponsors religious education of any type the problem will remain. The courage to deal with the bigots on both sides needs to come from government.
Singling out any group for abuse does nothing but add to the problem.
Complain about this comment
240. Electric Hermit
I agree with you on most of what you say, but riding a pink unicycle whilst inserting sharp sticks up your nostrils is not a reasonable analogy. No one is going to interpret that as a linguistic act. And language communities don't have laws, they have conventions - which is not the same thing. Laws don't automatically change because people break them, but if people start using the word black in a context where it can only mean white then it automatically becomes a new convention - and exactly that sort of thing happens regularly in natural language. (Eg. the evolution in meaning of fast from 'stuck firmly' to 'moving rapidly'.)
But I think we can agree that we'll both continue to oppose any attempt to describe extreme right wing politics, and absolutely anything that Jenny Hjul says, as reasonable.
Complain about this comment
387. gedguy2
"1. There was only one candidate's religion 'advertised' on this list; David Kerr's. Why would that be?"
That is appalling! What the hell has the BBC become?
Complain about this comment
Just a little off topic light entertainment, but watch this, especially the end bits where I felt everyone of those mistakes.
Parkour sweeps Russia
Complain about this comment
324. At 01:21am on 19 Oct 2009, oldnat wrote:
"This site doesn't appear to accept comments. However, I'd be interested in dean's view of a Tory site that wants to silence the SNP leader."
I have met the man [I say man, boy fits better] behind that rather vile site. I do not like him, or his kind of toryism. I would advise all bloggers to avoid tory bear like the plague that it morally and intellectually is.
Complain about this comment
363. At 1:19pm on 19 Oct 2009, Bandages_For_Konjic
Ah, you know Stirling do you? How well, do you live there- or are you involved at the Uni perhaps?
Complain about this comment
387. gedguy2
"There was only one candidate's religion 'advertised' on this list; David Kerr's. Why would that be?"
I was sufficiently offended and incensed by this that I for the first time ever availed myself of the BBC Complaints facility.
Complain about this comment
Re Cathy Jamieson and her goldfish-like memory span - she does this all the time. What she doesn't do is make an effort with her public appearance.
I recently (unfortunately) had to spend some time in her company - she and Sandra Osborne were like a couple of bag-ladies.
In fact, they reminded me of a lady in a 'Play for Today' from yesteryear - 'Edna the Inebriated Woman'.
Complain about this comment
388. Onescotlandmanyscots
"Singling out any group for abuse does nothing but add to the problem."
Not an issue. You point to the sectarian bigots and just leave the abuse to me. No discrimination!
Complain about this comment
377. BoNG0_1
"There were too many houses for rent and too few affordable for ownership prior to the scheme."
Unfortunately what the simple(s) idea has done us left us with too few houses for rent and too few affordable for ownership.
"Now after the scheme has allowed people to purchase their homes, a great many did. My old street (about 26 houses) are now all privately owned."
Of course - give people the opportunity to by something at a large discount and they will tend to do so. Some areas don't sell too well though, and become harder still to maintain with limited resources and limited reason for the councils to invest in.
Are you against ending it? If not, do you see it as a one-off sale of stock that just happened to benefit people in the window of time where it was acceptable (i.e. us).
I hope I'm not getting on the nerves of anyone who has happened to benefit from it - if offered the choice, it's a pretty good deal and I don't think people are wrong to have taken it up.
I don't think it was a good idea in the longer view though, we took some resources and transferred them to private ownership (and at siginificantly less than market value). It has contributed the the UK housing bubble, and continued pushing affordable housing further from those who need it. Lots of people benefitted directly from it and that's why it's taken so long to get round to stopping it, because the benefit is unsustainable. Those who came before and after got no benefit from it, and those public resources are no longer available.
Complain about this comment
389. InfrequentAllele
"And language communities don't have laws, they have conventions"
And just what do you think grammar is? Things such as sentence structure are very strictly "legislated". Which is who Yoda can be made to sound quaintly foreign while speaking English just by playing with the subject/verb/object ordering.
"But I think we can agree that we'll both continue to oppose any attempt to describe extreme right wing politics, and absolutely anything that Jenny Hjul says, as reasonable. "
Obviously. I suspect Jenny Hjul could say, "Good morning!", and make it sound like an anti-SNP rant.
Complain about this comment
#388 Onescotlandmanyscots, I agree, we should stay more calm when dealing with essentially sectarian elements of society.
The issue of an independent Scotland is not about the feelings of various political groups (unionist or Nationalist), it is about providing a structure where Scotland is able to control it's own finances and target areas with a view to building a better and more prosperous future for the generations of Scots to come.
All the evidence I have seen (looking at equivalent countries) points to an independent Scotland being far more capable of achieving this aim than if it were in the union.
Ps. you are wrong! Sectarianism in Scotland has three sides (not two as you state)... It has the predominantly Catholic/Irish republican side, The Predominantly Protestant/British unionist side... and importantly, it has the silent majority of ordinary and proud Scots who couldn't care less about the opinions of either of the religious sides.
Ps. You say you come from a Protestant community... what exactly does that mean? You have no Catholic Freinds? Your Doctor is a Protestant? Your Dentist? Your Postman? The Shop keeper who runs the local Asian newsagents?
Either you live in a Protestant commune or you actually do not live in a 'Protestant Community'?
I suspect the answer is that the idea of a community of a singular religious belief is fortunately an illusion in modern day Scotland. (bar the odd tiny hick village in darkest deepest Lanarkshire)!
Complain about this comment
From the BBC "The Scottish Labour candidate in the Glasgow North-East by-election has launched his campaign by accusing the SNP of "ripping off" the city".
And so it begins........
Labour is a Glasgow centric party with no interest in other parts of Scotland. Must be true as Gray and Murphy did nothing to rebut the "rip off" charge. Labour, the Glasgow subsidy junkie party and to hang with the rest of Scotland
PS
Vote labour and get the orange walk down your street!
Complain about this comment
388. Onescotlandmanyscots
Donald Mc Nairn's comments were about Orangemen, not Protestants. Orangemen are not the same as Protestants. Being a Protestant does not make someone a bigot, being an Orangeman does.
Complain about this comment
#393: Deanthetory -
"How well, do you live there- or are you involved at the Uni perhaps?"
None of your business. I think there's enough pertinent information in my post, though, to demonstrate that I do know what I'm talking about.
Now, when are you going to answer my "entirely fair and sensible question[s]" or are you conceding that your puff piece, promoting your chum Benny, was nothing more than specious misrepresentation and untruth?
Complain about this comment
375. U14094468
Let me know how it goes.
It looks like you're going to need to scale up if it gets much more popular though! I wouldn't have even considered email distribution a problem - shows how much I know :)
Complain about this comment
#382 oldnat
"Ludovic Kennedy has died. I always had great admiration for him."
Shared. A true Liberal, a democrat and one of the first BBC political journalists to demonstrate his sense of humour through three appearances in the Yes (Prime) Minister saga.
Unsurprisingly, most of the obituaries so far mention only his flirtation with the L-Ds, and whilst a few mention his Liberal past, I haven't noticed any reference to his views on independence. Where did you get your quote from?
Complain about this comment
#394 Electric Hermit
Ditto. I urge all readers of this blog, regular, irregular, trolls and lurkers to join what I suspect will be a large number of people absolutely offended by this outrageous bias, whether you be of faith or not.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/complaints/homepage/
Chiefy
Complain about this comment
404. Brownedov
"Where did you get your quote from?"
From the Telegraph
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/politics-obituaries/6374967/Sir-Ludovic-Kennedy.html
Complain about this comment
405. Chiefy1724
"outrageous bias"
Are you sure the candidates didn't approve of the text?
Complain about this comment
#405. Chiefy could you give a link to the piece listing Mr. Kerr's religion? I find it helpful in making my complaints to have exact information readily at hand.
I do enjoy mentioning that other countries ARE watching what they are doing. It actually did on one occasion bring a quick response from BBC and a rather 'brisk' exchange of emails.
Complain about this comment
# 388 Onescotlandmanyscots
I am also ambivalent on the Independence Question, but reading the type of posts and language used by yourself and others, inclines me against nationalism because it seems to have a very intolerant edge to it, as demonstrated in your post.
Welcome to the blog. I like your 'handle' and would have to agree that is does represent the different points of view that Scottish people hold. I respect your views of being a Unionist, but don't support it. That is not only my right but yours and long may those rights flourish. I'm interested in your statement where you say: 'inclines me against nationalism because it seems to have a very intolerant edge to it'. An interesting statement but where in any of the SNP policy that you have read have you seen this published or even spoken about by the SNP?
In Scotland we have many different communities that by and large live peacefully and respect each other. I do not begrudge or belittle any other community, I live by the live and let live principle.
A profound statement and one that I would echo.
The SNP candidate in the forthcoming by-election is a member of a very exclusive religious sect with some very dubious links, but this does not mean he should be abused in any way, we live in a supposedly free country.
If, as you say, that we should 'live and let live' why did you find it relevant to bring up this man's religious beliefs? Personally, I'm an atheist but I have no problem with anyone who wants to believe in an invisible super-being/s as long as they don't try to push their beliefs down my throat, whether that be in education or marching in the streets. Religion is a personal thing and should be kept personal.
Therefore I would suggest that you should moderate the language and show a little respect.
Surely, in a democratic society he has the right to express his opinion. I assume that you are a member of the LOL and as such you have no problem with expressing your anti-catholic views. By the way, I was brought up as a Catholic and have many family members who are Catholic and also family members who are not.
The sectarian problem in Scotland has two sides, as long as the government of the day sponsors religious education of any type the problem will remain. The courage to deal with the bigots on both sides needs to come from government.
There are more than two sides to the religion debate. You are only taking into account the Christian perspective, there are more religions than that. As an atheist it puzzles me why Christians, Muslims and Jews all believe in the same God but will happily kill each other over their interpretation of how that same God should be worshipped. If there was a God then I am sure that he would be a little bit annoyed at this ridiculous attitude.
Singling out any group for abuse does nothing but add to the problem.
Neither does marching in areas where there is a different Christian perspective. Wouldn't you agree?
Complain about this comment
398. Electric Hermit
The grammar of a language is a set of conventions, not a set of laws.
Complain about this comment
#372 'they move in; their rent's lower than their mortgage payments would be; allowing them to save a deposit to put down on a mortgage and move out.'
I think you will find that a huge amount of the population have so much bad debts that they would never be able to buy a house let alone save. My mortgage is only 150 quid more than what i was paying rent and that's as a first time buyer. It could be argued that well its your own fault for getting into debt but we had to take pretty much the first house we were given and since its 10 miles to the nearest town and my job was not very well paid, then add to the fact that my wife couldnt drive and you can get into debt very easily. Of course now we are catching up and had the chance to buy our house but we probably wouldnt have been able to save up 3-4 grand so at least we got our foot in the door. I can see though that it needs to be stopped with brand new houses as that would be silly. Anyway most houses being built just now are ridiculously priced. More needs to be looked into for really low cost eco friendly houses .... may RB Farquhar s should look into using all the unwanted porta cabins that they have lying around. There you go start up a new business in the north east from a company that has its foot int the door ..... erm whats that ..they moved to Hungary or somewhere cos labour is cheaper ... damn oh well back to the drawing board
Complain about this comment
Boasting too much about SNP Housing Policy and the new Housing Act 2009 is tactically a very bad move. Pretty much every issue that comes before MPs and MSPs is a housing issue and none of them are easily resolved. I might also add that Alex Neil is not the man for this job, as his current policy appears to be that of marking time on drastic policy action until after May 2011. Housing is not going to wait that long, Alex. Stewart Maxwell tried to same thing and look where it got him.
Just for the record: none of the 26 Councils currently with Council Housing stock will make the Scottish Housing Quality Standard by 2015; removing £240 million from the Housing Budget next financial year is going to bite you around December 2010 (Mr. Salmond is not going to like that); rent rises of the order of 6 per cent over inflation both this year and next year will have tenants screaming; and finally, and you are really going to love this one, removing right to buy on new occupancy only, means that over the next 3 years a whole lot of people currently occupying the best Council houses will buy taking even more houses out of Council ownership. Yes, Alex, Council Housing debt currently standing at 2.2 billion pounds could rise to nearly 4 billion by the Scottish election in 2011 unless you do something, around about now.
Complain about this comment
#390 ... you think that's bad .. i saw a list of the candidates in the Sun and it mentioned the fact that the Tory one was homosexual. What this has to do with anything is beyond me.
Complain about this comment
Two polls needed on Scottish independence
"The question in the first referendum cannot be about independence as such, but has to be about authorising the Scottish government to negotiate the terms of independence with the UK government. A second referendum is thus required on the white paper embodying the negotiated terms of independence.
"Since a positive result in the second referendum would directly challenge the integrity of the UK, the Scottish parliament would not have the competence to authorise it.”
A senior UK government source said Murkens’s assessment was “absolutely right”. He added: “The SNP aren’t telling the truth. It’s a legal quagmire and we’re quite happy to see them get bogged down in it.” "
Complain about this comment
Low priced housing ... i thought there was a reason houses are so dear
http://www.managementtoday.co.uk/News/MostDiscussed/939946/dodgy-builders-fined-130m-price-fixing-scam/
Ok some of these companies dont build houses but it would explain why PFI contracts are so stupid.
Complain about this comment
# 412 MagisterIlluminatus
How about the Westminster government not slashing our pocket money for the mistakes that they made. While I am at it, which party was in power that got us into this mess in the first place?
Complain about this comment
# 408 JRMacClure
see my # 387
Complain about this comment
# 413 ubinworryinmasheep
What has ones religion or sexual orientation got to do with their ability to represent their potential constituents?
Complain about this comment
399. BoNG0_1
Other posters will note that you missed out the word predominantly which gave what I said important context. I will assume this was just carelessness on your part, not an attempt to distort what I said.
The reason I say I am from a predominantly protestant community is that there are no other churches for a fair distance. However that is an unimportant detail to me.
I am glad you recognise the need to be careful in using language, I hope you will practice this in future never mind what group you are talking about. Debate is better when some basic respect is shown.
My main point though is that by marginalising groups will not build a consensus for change, precisely the opposite. Creating division is not the way forward.
Infrequent
Your post demonstrates bigotry comes in many forms. I am a bricklayer, who has lived in Scotland for the last 29 years, all but one of the years I have lived. I work in a squad of 7 guys, 2 are members of the Orange order and over the last 9 years working with them I have never heard anything that would be described as bigoted. they have a heritage but are easy going guys that are happy to let live. We have another guy who is proud of Irish Catholic roots, the other guys have no isssue with this at all. We also have 2 Polish workers who have different culture again. We all work together quite happily.
That is the reality of life in many parts of Scotland, people get on with their lives and respect the differences. Don't tar everyone with the brush of a few, because idiots are not the preserve of any side in the debate.
We have a problem in Scotland in that the nation is largely secular and the vast majority of Scots never go to a church. But we still indoctrinate our kids at school. It is just politicians don't have the bottle to deal with the problem
Complain about this comment
410. InfrequentAllele
The grammar of a language is a quite inflexible set of logical rules that govern the way a natural language is structured. These rules are laws in the sense that we are all bound by them. They derive from the way our minds work. We can choose to break these laws, as in the Yoda example, but this is a contrivance. The laws still hold and will always take precedence in normal usage.
Cannot you took a laws grammar of breaks it and making sense with they.
Complain about this comment
#386. At 3:10pm on 19 Oct 2009, takhisis1 wrote:
"If it is true, that the Orange Order will now canvass for Labour, will Purcell & his labour cronies suddenly change their minds on cutting the number of marches in Glasgow so as to appease their new bedfellows"
I've been wondering about this; there have, now my mind starts casting back, been a number of rather positive features on the Orange Order in the "quality" press lately - one recent example which springs to mind is a piece about women in the Orange Order.
Having no interest in them whatsoever I've skipped over them which is why I can't be more specific as to dates and places of publication, but it does suggest one of two things, either (a) the Order is making a concerted effort to re-present itself in a positive light and looking to gain all the friends it can muster, including the Labour Party which was once seen, rightly or wrongly, as pro-Catholic and in the process take the heat off their marches, or (b) they have already been promised the earth in return for their support and the said rash of articles are by way of preparing the way and defusing any potential criticism of the Labour Party for accepting the kind assistance of an organisation most of us tend to look sideways at
Complain about this comment
#418 erm you're asking the wrong person .. i dont work for the Sun.
Complain about this comment
411. ubinworryinmasheep
"at least we got our foot in the door"
Or on the treadmill.
Bit of advice. Don't just look at what it's going to cost to get on the "property ladder". Look at the cost of getting off. Before getting into a situation, consider the cost of getting out of it.
Complain about this comment
#418 Has any of the candidates got ginger hair ? ;o)}
Complain about this comment
416. Gedguy2
I think you'll find that Westminster is slashing everyone's pocket money as they are entitled to do. They were voted in by a clear majority of seats in every part of the UK (excluding Northern Ireland). Who's fault was it originally, I suspect you might have to point the finger at both Wilson Govts. who replaced Victorian slums with 1960s jerry-built slums.
Complain about this comment
Well Alex Salmond got something right, regardless of who wins the next GE, savage cuts are coming to Scotland, how severe depends on who wins the election.
With the state of the financial sector it would be fair to conclude the oil revenues from Scotland are helping keep the UK afloat so I see no reason why we should bear the brunt of the cuts faced.
The only real choice in Scotland is to vote SNP the one party that doesn't have Masters in London to answer to, and the only party interested in protecting Scotlands interests. The Conservatives gaining influence in Scotland through more seats would be a d