Sun and sandwiches
Plenty happening here at the Eden Court for the SNP conference.
The sun shone and the sandwiches held out longer than on the opening day - no doubt contributing to an air of general bonhomie among the delegates.
There was a comradely dispute as to whether an independent Scotland would require a referendum before opting to join the Euro.
Alyn Smith MEP was among those arguing that a referendum would be a conditional step too far. Better to get on and join.
But most delegates sided with John Swinney who said: join but only when the economic conditions are right and there's been a referendum.
In a webcast interview with me, Alex Salmond argued the case for an independence referendum - but demurred at the suggestion that there should be a popular poll on whether to maintain the monarchy, post independence.
Her Majesty, it seems, would stay.
Looking for money
Mr Salmond also offered a few more pointers as to the concessions he would seek to prize from Westminster in the event of a hung Parliament after the UK General Election.
He'd be looking, in essence, for money: protecting public spending and capital investment in Scotland.
I asked him whether he'd seek to oblige his UK counterparts to abandon Trident. Mr Salmond thought not.
This, it seems, would be a demand too far - likely to deter positive gains for Scotland rather than promote them.
To be quite clear, the SNP leader also reiterated his complete opposition to Trident and to the cost of upgrading it.
In his keynote speech, John Swinney argued the case for fiscal autonomy.
I was most intrigued by his efforts to contrast that position with the reforms advanced by the Calman Commission.
You'll remember that Calman advocated devolving a proportion of income tax to Scotland, with concomitant varying powers.
But Mr Swinney argued that "would expose the Scottish budget to a significant degree of volatility and vulnerability without giving us the levers of economic control to counter these effects."
I'm 
© MMIX~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~19~RS~)
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Brian,
Full fiscal autonomy is clearly essential for any Scottish Government to have meaningful control over the Scottish economy.
Borrowing powers are something which could be agreed by Westmidden tomorrow and would be a start in removing the PPP/PFI albatross.
On Calman, wouldn't it be better to for you to chair a two-way debate between the SNP and the unionist triumvirate to discuss no progress has been made on transferring the powers both sides are agreed on?
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Just viewed your webcast, Brian. It was fair and balanced and you tried to put your guest on the spot with some probing questions. This is fair enough and exactly what I would expect from a political journalist. I look forward to you and your minions doing the same to the other Scottish party leaders. Well done.
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Brownedov yer man! keeps avoiding a leaders debate?.
"The sun shone and the sandwiches held out longer" was Salmond elsewhere?
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Good strong point by Salmond about the BBC having steered clear of approaching the SNP about the TV debate and Sky having already done so. No comment from Brian though! He is not usually so coy. BBC Scotland failing the people of Scotland again?
I can sense the frustration rising with BBC Scotland's treatment of the SNP. It was Nicola Sturgeon yesterday and Alex Salmond today.
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Whey Hey! the all new democractic nationalists.
They will give you a referendum on Independence but enforce the single currency on Scotland without a referendum.
Must be an Oldnat ploy?.
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"Mr Salmond also offered a few more pointers as to the concessions he would seek to prize from Westminster in the event of a hung Parliament after the UK General Election."
Brian, were you asleep in spelling class at primary school?
Whatever Eck may have said, I doubt he wouldn've written it as 'prize'. Unless, of course, he had a double entendre in mind.
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Who is this giggle dude?
He makes up stories and posts them as unsubstantiated rumours.
What a wally.
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Online Ed Here
Excellent stuff from Salmond in his web chat with Brian Taylor. I particularly like the way he turned the tables on Taylor with respect to the BBC's behaviour over the leaders debate - SKY have at least contacted the Scottish Government but not so the state broadcaster, Taylor had to sheepishly sit and take it - the look on Salmond's face was enough for Taylor.
That's what happens when these BBC Scotland journalists are confronted, they are unable to answer very real justifiable criticism. Anyone notice Taylor making the point that the overwhelming quaetions to Salmond on the leaders debate were against the SNP stance?
Well Brian, of course they were, why would someone who supported the SNP stance question Salmond on it. However imagine had it been the BBC who was fielding this question, you better believe that there would have been tens of thousands of such questions aimed at the BBC.
There is a massive majority in favour of the SNP leader taking part in this debate - the Newsnet Scotland poll [open to anyone] showed those in favour outnumbered those against by 10 to 1, with over 600 people taking part.
I think todays headlines can be paraphrased as 'Salmond blasts BBC'.
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Brian,
You're being somewhat economical with truth with your:
"Alex Salmond argued the case for an independence referendum - but demurred at the suggestion that there should be a popular poll on whether to maintain the monarchy, post independence."
He did say it wouldn't be his first priority and also gave a list of other issues like membership of the euro which are more urgently needed but he also said that the Scottish people would ultimately decide.
What would be your list of priorities for referendums, I wonder?
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This comment has been referred to the moderators. Explain.
" Alyn Smith MEP was among those arguing that a referendum would be a conditional step too far. Better to get on and join"
Wow! it's all falling aprat now!
The nats dont do policies! just Independence without thought!.
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#3 & #5 giggletheloneranger
Well, I guess you're not in favour of Independence or a supporter of the SNP. Fair enough.
My own experience of the Union over the last 43 years is of unemployment, erroding of our manufacturing industry, ongoing social problems, continuous poverty in places like Glasgow. Then there are examples of non-ethical foreign policy decisions, e.g. the Iraq war.
A few things that get me thinking about the status quo. I can deal with change and consider a fundamental change to be absolutely necessary.
So Giggle, what do the Unionist parties have to offer me that is different to the small list of examples above, please? Waiting........
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#3 giggletheloneranger
"keeps avoiding a leaders debate?"
Yes, your lot certainly do, Mr G.
#7 curley_bill
"He makes up stories and posts them as unsubstantiated rumours."
Welcome. That's on a good day, of course.
#10 giggletheloneranger
For avoidance of doubt, Mr G, it was I who referred your unwarranted diatribe to the mods. Unsubstantiated rumours are one thing but personal abuse, particularly of a newbie, is scurrilous. You're not at Holyrood, now, you know.
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#12 blind
" My own experience of the Union over the last 43 years is of unemployment, erroding of our manufacturing industry, ongoing social problems, continuous poverty in places like Glasgow. Then there are examples of non-ethical foreign policy decisions, e.g. the Iraq war"
That's quite a span 43 years! there must have been several parties leading Britian in that time.
So after two years and a bit, what part of this failed Scottish national party as an executive, dont you get.
Unemployment at it's highest level for 14 years.
Manufacturing decreasing.
Poverty on the rise.
Serious crime on the rise.
Cancellation of GARL
Schools still not meeting attainment levels (18 puplis per class dropped).
Student debt not cancelled.
No new schools. (brick for brick promise dropped)
No new investment in the highlands.
no new LIT Taxation scheme.
The list is endless under this admin? do you agree?,
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#13
Light hearted banter, is a not a diatribe?
Why are you so touchy Brownedov! is the conference not receiving the proper highlighting!. ouch!.
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Back at the hotel again after my day at conference.
My highlights of the day -
1. Alan Cochrane's admission in the Fringe event on electoral reform that he "had been against PR but now he
was coming round to the idea." That got a cheer, I can tell you.
2. Kenny MacCaskill's spontaneous standing ovation as he arrived at the podium. Kenny's come out the other side oof the Al Megrahi affair with his popularity increased several-fold. And he even started with a joke. "Here we are", he said, "back in Inverness and ready for some of that old-time religion."
3. David Kerr. Never seen him in the flesh before because I'm not from that part of the world but . . . what a candidate he is! For any activist, of any party, there's always something of a "sizing up" of prospective candidates. There's a lot at stake, for the party faithful and we want someone who's really going to deliver on our hope, our expectations and our hard work. And after hearing him speak for just a few minutes - I'm convinced that David Kerr will
deliver. I'll be in Glasgow NE next weekend and I'm certain that many more of the hundreds who applauded David this afternoon will be there as well. 117 days 'til the bye-election and the faithful will be out in force because David is someone to believe in, someone worth putting the hours in for.
4. Not to flog a topic but David Kerr's reference to a Great-Grandmother in Springburn that, in two years
of Government, the SNP had already done more for her than Labour had done in the whole of their term - really went down well.
5. Lastly, have to mention the very open and frank debate on asylum seeker - which cut across to one of the topical
motions on the UK Border Agency. The SNP is the progressive party of inclusiveness in Scotland and hollow claims of xenophobia (Or anglophobia) never look more baseless and more venal than they do when they're set against the SNP's record on making Scotland a welcoming home for those who have been forced here by violence and terror.
That's probably enough for now. Disco and karaoke later then Alex tomorrow. Can't wait.
It's time.
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#16 crash
Well crass! what austerity measures do you have in mind?.
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Just for the record, and speaking as someone who was there - there is no rumour going
round the SNP conference, that Alex will be returning to Westminster. There'll be twenty SNP MPs returned to Westminster after the GE but Alex won't be one of them.
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As this is a BBC blog it seems appropriate to use it to have a go at GMS. What's with that Gary Robinson? Does he think his constant interrupting gives the impression he's a sharp cookie? To me, it merely makes him rude - people listen to hear the views put forward by those supposedly 'interviewed', not his sniping.
As for his cohorts - that Aileen wummin needs to take beta-blockers, she's near hysterical from 6a.m. onwards. But as for Asmah Mir - what a sexy laugh she has.
And I do agree with previous posts - the SNP need to start playing hardball with these biased commentators - nice is nice, but agressive is better.
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By the way, I was not upset by giggle's post - to take offence at the ramblings of a deluded mind shows a lack of understanding of those with 'problems'.
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#19 shirley!
Curley-Bill, look! there are no magic pills with the Independence formula.
So why do you support the measure?.
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Did somebody mention groundhogs? Lets have a referendum, but not on the euro , only on what we want it to be on. Brown is supposed to be the man who hates referenda, but it seems the same disease afflicts a lot of other politicians who don't think the punters can be trusted to vote the right way.
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#18 cass
Are you saying Alex Salmond wont stand for re-election as an MP?
The rumor is growing bigger! the truth is near.
The source is very close?.
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Cassiel1991.
I like your blogging. Thanks. Nice to get a different perspective on what is going on. The BBC coverage is dreadful.
Freedom
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I am in favour of Scotland having full fiscal authority rather than bits and pieces. For one, it would prove whether the Scottish Government was capable of running an efficient economy and bugdet.
The downside of full fiscal authority is if tax levels in Scotland were higher than elsewhere. Of course, if tax levels are LOWER and services are maintained then obviously that is a good thing.
I would like to see the Scottish Government prove themselves with fiscal authority. I think they are capable of it provided they keep clear of anything resembling a PFI scheme - the UK PFI debt stands (I think) around 640 BILLION.
One reason I now believe that the SNP are capable of handling the finances of Scotland is their own situation: they have little money as a party, yet manage to spend it wisely without incurring huge debts as we have seen with the other parties.
Obviously unable to see the conference, but I see we have one or two posters in attendance. Have there been any speaker questioning or criticising any of the SNP policies? The reason I ask is if there is a conference of "Yes men" (and women), the media might pick up on this and accuse the SNP of stage management, something the other parties are rather good at coming up to an election.
And I see Europe is the bogeyman for the SNP as much as it is for other parties. Not open warfare but certainly a few divisions evident. But that I suppose is a good sign as the leadership appear to be allowing healthy debate within.
And no, I've not been drinking before anyone asks why I seem to be a bit more supportive that usual. Just trying to use a balanced approach.
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#22 Kaybraes
What are the nats like, the semi referendum mob and the partial voters gang.
They wont to give 16 year olds a one off vote? gigle''giggle
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Giggles -
A quick response to your list -
Lower unemployment in Scotland than the rest of the UK
Third year of the Council Tax freeze to help low income families
A record number of police officers in Scotland
FastLink and a rebuilt Dalmarnock Station
Legislation to prohibit classes with more than 25 pupils
Graduate endowments abolished
£125 million investment in building new schools - AND - the brick for brick promise is actually being kept
Announcement today of 'money matching' investment in the H&I University by the Scottish Government and HIE
A continuing commitment to reform the unfair council tax.
Anything you can do etc.
As Julie Hepburn said today, it's easy campaigning for the SNP.
Campaigning for Labour must be h*ll, though.
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Giggles @23
Yes. Next question?
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Disco and karaoke with Alex! ouch! no photos please!
The Pilchard on the dance floor!.
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#27 Cassiel1991
"Lower unemployment in Scotland than the rest of the UK
Third year of the Council Tax freeze to help low income families
A record number of police officers in Scotland
FastLink and a rebuilt Dalmarnock Station
Legislation to prohibit classes with more than 25 pupils
Graduate endowments abolished
£125 million investment in building new schools - AND - the brick for brick promise is actually being kept
Announcement today of 'money matching' investment in the H&I University by the Scottish Government and HIE
A continuing commitment to reform the unfair council tax."
Council tax freeze only helps the rich. Unemployment grerw by 200,000 in Scotland over the last three months.Strathclyde police force facing a deficit of 35million.Dalmarnock link to be cancelled.2bn student debt not abolished.No new commissioned schools after two years.Scottish students not receiving their loans.
And there's more!.
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Neil_Small147@25
Glad you think that way. One of the (few, if any) positives of the unfair Devolution settlement is that it has mandated the Scottish Government to prove, very publically, that it can manage public money prudently and still deliver front-line services.
Under devolution, once the money's gone - it's gone. Alistair
Darling can borrow, borrow and borrow some more as Labour desperately try to prop up their
administration. John Swinney can't borrow a penny. But he's still maintained the council tax freeze - to combat poverty. There's still a £125 million pound school building programme. There's still free home care for the elderly. All of it - costed, accounted for and paid for.
John Swinney's shown he can manage a budget. Alistair Darling's shown he's the bankers' best friend.
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#31
Cass! go and get some bevvy! your not impressing anyone here.
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#31 cassiel1991
Come off it! Swinney the razor king finance minister can borrow.
Come on get it right! and what about the 23Bn he has wasted on the SFT scheme that hasn't seen the light of day' and the 20,000 jobs it has cost Scotland in the lack of it's action.
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#26 giggletheloneranger
"They wont to give 16 year olds a one off vote?"
Did you check that one with the boss, Mr G? You do know Duff Gordon's on record as wanting the voting age reduced, don't you?
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In answer to your other question, Neil - there was some pretty robust debate
today. On the Euro and on Asylum Seekers, to give two examples.
If you had heard some of the banter between the speakers and the podium - James Garnon and colleague introduced as "The Francie and Josie of Glasgow politics"; Julie Hepburn warning a colleague not to get in the way of a hormonal woman; and
a reference to Simon Cowell that got the biggest laugh of the day - you'd realise the SNP are a world away fro
stage managed Labour and Tory events. Ministers mingle with the crowd before and after their
addresses - and there're plenty among the faithful who wouldn't stand on ceremony if they had a grievance
to air.
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Can't help being cynical about anything that BBC Scotland does. e.g. Was Eleanor Bradford's piece about car parking fees a careful and well planned construct? It looked oh so convenient that a Labour MP who had (sensibly it seems) travelled by bus rather than use her car talked to Eleanor about the no parking charges system not working. Eleanor found a parking space, the only one I could see, in a pay car park (surprise, surprise). Did some kind person agree to vacate it for her so she could make her point?
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#34
Brownedov, the boss is part of the broad church (and yes there was a typo @)
Robin cook and others often disagreed with the cabinet.
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#35
Headlines tonight! SNP party member rules out AS for another go at being an MP! Oooo! Cass the grass!.
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Giggles@30
The rich pay out a much smaller proportion of their income in council tax. Council tax freezes help the poor; the rich don't notice.
Unemployment has gone up (We're in a UK spawned recession, in case you hadn't
noticed) BUT it's gone up at a lower rate than the rest of the UK AND it's still lower in Scotland than in the rest of the UK
Dalmarnock station IS being rebuilt - I never said anything about a 'link'.
Student debt hasn't been abolished (See my earlier post about the SNP having to live within their means) BUT the Graduate Endowment has been abolished.
The new schools (Thirty of them, I think) were announced two weeks ago
And the paper that printed the story about student loans had to issue a retraction. (Leading to
a VERY embarrassed Labour back bencher at FMQs)
Oh, and 23 billion? Get real - that's two thirds of Scotland's total annual budget.
You knock 'em up - I'll hit 'em - now, though, dinner and my social life are calling.
Back tomorrow.
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#37 giggletheloneranger
"Brownedov, the boss is part of the broad church ... Robin cook and others often disagreed with the cabinet."
Sensible comments for once, Mr G. Are you suggesting that "Scottish" Labour are developing distinct, different policies from London Labour? I certainly hope so, but will not be holding my breath.
Busy for the rest of the evening but will hope to look back in tomorrow. TTFN
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35. At 7:57pm on 16 Oct 2009, Cassiel1991 wrote:
Good to hear that there is some proper debate at a party conference. The worst thing that can happen to any political party is to toe the party line under any circumstances.
Robin Cook was an excellent example of a politician who cared more for his principles than politics. He was still unswervingly loyal to Labour, but questioned in the most spectacular fashion a particular policy. Michael Heseltine did the same with Thatcher over the Westland affair if I am correct.
The biggest danger to the SNP is total reliance on Alex Salmond. He is a strong character who has driven the SNP to where they are today. But he is not everyone's cup of tea - no politician is. The SNP must give more exposure to their other senior politicians. And it is Westminster politicians that need it. Especially since next year there may be a few more of them.
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#39 Cass
Back peddling now! giggle.
Look, see how you like these apples! the SNP is on it's third budget of over 30 Bn per year, are you keeping up! thats about 8bn per year on the failed SFT and about 1Bn wasted on a tax freeze for the rich.
Snp have also failed to deliver on a settled will of finance for Scottish students.
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cassiel1991, welcome and thanks for your updates .
if you come across someone who's village is missing an idiot you will at least be able to tell them that you have crossed swords with him 7 times today and where they may find him.
don't know about anyone else but he is not even funny anymore. SAD SAD SAD.would be a better tag.
Sid
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Brian the BBC coverage of the SNP conference is simply not good enough: when the Daily Record, Sun, Scotsman and Times are producing more favorably titled articles than a supposedly "impartial" publicly-funded broadcaster.
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45. giggletheloneranger
"A good source"
We understand your unwillingness to name your "good source". The source would then be the subject of police investigation for supplying those substances to you. No doubt your kneecaps would be in significant danger.
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Just a couple more add ons to the list.
Lower unemployment in Scotland than the rest of the UK
Third year of the Council Tax freeze to help low income families
A record number of police officers in Scotland
FastLink and a rebuilt Dalmarnock Station
Legislation to prohibit classes with more than 25 pupils
Graduate endowments abolished
£125 million investment in building new schools - AND - the brick for brick promise is actually being kept
Announcement today of 'money matching' investment in the H&I University by the Scottish Government and HIE
A continuing commitment to reform the unfair council tax
Abolishing bridge tolls
free car parking at hospitals
every little helps to the ordinary person on the street and as for class sizes up in moray it is not to bad most of them are around 18-22 pupils in classes 1-3 keep the good work going SNP because it would never have been achieved under Labour.
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Aww bless...
You gotta love the Hungarian view of the current political landscape in Scotland
http://www.javno.com/en-economy/the-scottish-pro-independents-now-to-say-no_278362
Made me smile, answers on a postcard please... ;o)
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Online Ed Here
Here is my response to any and all posts from giggle:
........
I advise others do do likewise.
To the poster Cassiel1991, a hearty thanks for your informative comments on the conference. The ovation for MacAskill is something that gladdens my heart, the man took on a great responsibility and we all owe him a debt of gratitude.
I haven't been in a position to watch any of the coverage, although I understand that the BBC have effectively airbrushed it out of the schedules.
Today we saw SNP prospective parliamentary candidates and the First Minister himself finally let loose on the BBC. I dearly hope that this is the first signs that no longer will they tolerate the partisan behaviour from some of the BBC's Scottish broadcasters.
Salmond actually referred to Taylor's previous trick question today, an acknowledgement that he knew exactly what Taylor's game was.
Such robust responses from SNP interviewees will make people like Campbell think twice before resorting to their usual nonsense, especially if they may be made to look either inept or biased on live TV.
Taylor/Campbell will never, ever apply the same journalistic rigour to Iain Gray or Jim Murphy as he applied to Salmond today - that is the great tragedy of today's Scottish media.
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48 gavinahill
Aww bless...
You gotta love the Hungarian view of the current political landscape in Scotland
http://www.javno.com/en-economy/the-scottish-pro-independents-now-to-say-no_278362
Made me smile, answers on a postcard please... ;o)
I think the giggler must have had a hand in writing this. The style is so similar.
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giggletheloneranger is absolutely clueless and has no idea what there talking about, i'm not surprised the bbc choose to publish these silly comments as they slate the SNP, but c'mon get a grip.
As a Masters student of Scottish Politics, I believe my opinion carries good weight, and the performance of the SNP so far considering they are a minority government is certainly better than the one from Lab-Lib Dem coalition, credit given here to the Lib Dems as it was thanks to them the coalition lasted two terms and had any stability, compared to the ever-changing leader Labour party, think Iain Grey will be on his way out soon too, all those blunders he keeps making.
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Interesting demographic analysis being published on the % of the electorate by constituency who have degree level education. The UK average is 28%, the Scottish average is 33%. There are 628 UK constituencies and the lowest % for any constituency is 10%
Scottish constituency details are -
UK Rank, Constituency, % with degree or equivalent, MP Party
13, Edinburgh North and Leith , 55%, Lab
17, Glasgow North , 53%, Lab
18, East Dunbartonshire , 53%, LD
26, Edinburgh South , 48%, Lab
30, Aberdeen South , 47%, Lab
37, East Renfrewshire , 45%, Lab
41, Edinburgh West , 45%, LD
71, Glasgow South , 41%, Lab
73, Stirling , 40%, Lab
80, Glasgow Central , 40%, Lab
87, Edinburgh South West , 39%, Lab
88, Edinburgh East , 39%, Lab
90, North East Fife , 39%, LD
92, West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine , 39%, LD
96, Glasgow North West , 39%, Lab
102, Aberdeen North , 38%, Lab
110, Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey , 38%, LD
118, Dundee West , 37%, Lab
121, Ochil and South Perthshire , 36%, Lab
132, Cumbernauld, Kilsyth and Kirkintilloch East , 35%, Lab
135, Argyll and Bute , 35%, LD
140, Gordon , 35%, LD
167, Dundee East , 34%, SNP
174, Na h-Eileanan An Iar , 33%, SNP
176, Perth and North Perthshire , 33%, SNP
180, Paisley and Renfrewshire South , 32%, Lab
190, Glenrothes , 32%, Lab
193, East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow , 32%, Lab
196, East Lothian , 32%, Lab
198, Linlithgow and East Falkirk , 32%, Lab
201, Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath , 31%, Lab
202, Dumfries and Galloway , 31%, Lab
203, Falkirk , 31%, Lab
207, Kilmarnock and Loudoun , 31%, Lab
209, Central Ayrshire , 31%, Lab
214, Paisley and Renfrewshire North , 31%, Lab
216, Ross, Skye and Lochaber , 31%, LD
217, Angus , 31%, SNP
227, Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk , 30%, LD
232, Rutherglen and Hamilton West , 30%, Lab
241, Dunfermline and West Fife , 30%, LD
245, Moray , 29%, SNP
248, West Dunbartonshire , 29%, Lab
258, Lanark and Hamilton East , 29%, Lab
259, Inverclyde , 29%, Lab
262, Orkney and Shetland , 29%, LD
270, North Ayrshire and Arran , 29%, Lab
271, Motherwell and Wishaw , 29%, Lab
277, Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale , 28%, Con
283, Livingston , 28%, Lab
298, Midlothian , 27%, Lab
322, Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross , 27%, LD
350, Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock , 26%, Lab
365, Banff and Buchan , 25%, SNP
374, Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill , 25%, Lab
435, Glasgow North East , 23%, ?
516, Glasgow South West , 19%, Lab
539, Airdrie and Shotts , 19%, Lab
584, Glasgow East , 16%, SNP
Have to admit that I was surprised by Glasgow NE. Obviously I was persuaded by George Foulkes statement in my hearing that the voters there were "all underclass". Seems he was wrong yet again.
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I have to disagree with the comments that the interview was impartial and balanced, if you look at the percentage of questions that were positive, I think you will find this extremely low, it was unconstructive and set up in a way to make a fool out of Alex Salmond, too bad Taylor is no match for the charasmatic Salmond and his feeble attempts to trip up the First Minister failed. This is the leader of the party forming government in our country, show a little respect!
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#52 nat-oz
Did you think this remark" As a Masters student of Scottish Politics," makes you more believeable?
Keep on stumping that yellow brick road.
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Online Ed Here
Just for the record, I referred comment number 45 to the mods. I have also referred number 51 to the mods.
I will be working late tonight finishing off articles for Newsnet Scotland Edition 4. I will refer any and every comment I feel breaks the guidelines and will post my referrals on the blog.
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Online Ed Here
The Herald have a headline that states:
English Treasury is ‘dragging Scotland down’, SNP claim
Now, having read the article I can find no mention of this 'English Treasury'. I have though found a quote about 'English policies', very clear malicious manipulation of words from what is supposed to be our best 'quality'.
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Online Ed Here
As far as I am aware comment 54 from oldnat didn't even see the light of day !!
I am willing to bet that it was less offensive (if at all) than other posts that are duly published.
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Signed in for couple of reasons...
1 To thank Cassiel1991 for his coverage of SNP confrence.
I will be complaining to the BBC about their lack of coverage in comparison to other political parties.
2 To complain about giggletheloneranger comments.
Online Ed has already done this. Thank you!
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Politics Home on Legg
http://page.politicshome.com/uk/legg_letters_whos_repaying_what.html
seems to have become a lot worse since Ashcroft took over. Not that I have any objection to Skeletor being removed from the Cabinet(! - why has his name disappeared?) but I'd like to know what his Legg position is - as I'd also like to know how much Douglas Alexander's garage doors cost, and if he claimed the cost twice or not.
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59. U14094468
"As far as I am aware comment 54 from oldnat didn't even see the light of day !!"
It was ridiculing giggle's #51, so automatically fell when you referred it.
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59. U14094468
"As far as I am aware comment 54 from oldnat didn't even see the light of day !!"
It was ridiculing giggle's #51, so automatically fell when you referred it.
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Thanks for the inside coverage Cassiel1991 !
It must be good, you've got giggles playing all his broken records at once :)
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Online Ed Here
63. At 10:55pm on 16 Oct 2009, oldnat wrote:
59. U14094468
"As far as I am aware comment 54 from oldnat didn't even see the light of day !!"
It was ridiculing giggle's #51, so automatically fell when you referred it.
Not guilty, I didn't even get the chance to read it.
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#62
Wow! oldnat, when you run out of ideas, just slip right back into the protest party mode.
For a teacher you sure do lack the up take and drive to bring new and tested ideas to the table. Sorry I forgot, your were just a History teacher, my mistake. SORRY!
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Another piece of inside information from the troubled SNP conference.
Salmond, Say's he can serve Scotland better at Westminster?.
Looks like the empty hall will be even more empty tomorrow.
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68. giggletheloneranger
Why would it matter to you whether Salmond sits at Westminster or Holyrood?
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68. giggletheloneranger
"Another piece of inside information from the troubled SNP conference."
A piece of insider information from the troubled Labour Party in Scotland.
Jim Murphy deselected in East Renfrewshire.
That is exactly as accurate as the nonsense from giggle.
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#69mrbfaethedee
Good question!
I think if Mr Salmond does bat from the left(which he can do) then his skills would be most welcome at Westminster.The road ahead is a bleak one
and Scotland's interest would be best served if Salmond was in Westminster,especially if it was a tory government.When you look deep into Alex's philosophy then when in recession he does favour the Keynes ideology and I like that. yes" Salmond for Westminster, I'll endorse that.For now!.
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Comment 68 referred.
Interesting to note that Kenny MacAaskill has alleged that senior Labour MSP's and MP's have privately agreed with his decision to release Al Megrahi.
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72. U14094468
"Interesting to note that Kenny MacAaskill has alleged that senior Labour MSP's and MP's have privately agreed with his decision to release Al Megrahi."
Interesting. But not surprising. Malcolm Chisholm is exceptional only in that he had the courage to speak out.
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71. giggletheloneranger
"I think if Mr Salmond does bat from the left(which he can do) then his skills would be most welcome at Westminster."
True, but I think that his consistency in batting for a particular team would be subordinate to other concerns as his motivation would be primarily strategic rather than based on political or economic ideology.
Do you think the SNP would be damaged by the hay that the press and parties would seek to make of it? That calculation would figure just as heavily as the actual merit of his serving at Westminster over Holyrood.
Personally, I think he's as well staying at Holyrood and leading Westminster's SNP group from there - kind of mirroring the unionist parties up here in Scotland.
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#48 gavinahill
"Made me smile, answers on a postcard please" &
#50 griflion
"I think the giggler must have had a hand in writing this. The style is so similar."
Just a thought, but no conspiracy methinks, simply the common malaise of the dead-tree press everywhere - they're skint and reduced to using auto-translators of dubious quality [ie the free ones].
As an example, I put oldnat's #62 [picked for brevity and clarity] through:
http://translate.google.com/ from English to Hungarian and back again, getting:
Politics Home on Legg It seems that much worse, since Ashcroft took over. Not that I have any objection to being removed from the cabinet Skeletor (! - Why is there a name missing?) But I want to know what the Legg situation - as I'd also like to know how much Douglas Alexander's garage cost, and where he claimed that the costs twice or not.
http://uk.babelfish.yahoo.com/ doesn't do Hungarian, but from English to Russian and back again produces:
Politics they home to Legg it seems that to become much poorer in the form of the fact that Of ashcroft accepted over. Not that I have any objection to Skeletor being [izvlekannym] from the cabinet (! - why has his name of [ischezl]?) but I' d loves to know what its position Of legg - as I' d also loves to know how Douglas Alexander' the price of the doors of garage s, and if it claimed price twice or not.
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72. U14094468
"Interesting to note that Kenny MacAaskill has alleged that senior Labour MSP's and MP's have privately agreed with his decision to release Al Megrahi."
Yes, i can't imagine him making it up. The cowards should get some spines - having the courage of their convictions is the least we should expect from our political representatives.
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#72
Ed, as Papillon said'I'm still here .../.......
Hello Electric, ease up on the code of practice please your not in a court room now!.
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i find it astonishing thta knowing the broadcasting guidelines the bbc have not even discussed the debate with the snp at all.
someone, somewhere, must have made that decision.
brian should explain why no discussions have been made and if the bbc will continue to treat the snp with contempt.
i have a feeling it is someone in london of course; after all when has the bbc allowed its bias and less than impartial approach to politics in scotland to be seen as anything other than normal business practice.
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76. At 00:00am on 17 Oct 2009, mrbfaethedee wrote:
72. U14094468
"Interesting to note that Kenny MacAaskill has alleged that senior Labour MSP's and MP's have privately agreed with his decision to release Al Megrahi."
Yes, i can't imagine him making it up. The cowards should get some spines - having the courage of their convictions is the least we should expect from our political representatives.
I agree that if they do agree then they should at least own up. Individuals will have made their own minds up, regardless of the views of politicians. People may change their views as more facts come to light, but just because MP X says he agrees does not necessarily mean that Joe Bloggs in the street does.
But I hope MacAskill is not trying to play media games here. For one it is not the SNPs strongest suit and secondly it lowers the SNP to the level of the other parties.
On the other hand, if he is playing games, then why will he not name them? He could cause significant damage to Labour.
This week's Private Eye has a good piece on the reliability of Megrahi's trial.
70. At 11:28pm on 16 Oct 2009, oldnat wrote:
But is Mr Murphy not likely to get deselected by the voters next year anyway?
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Online Ed Here
Comment 61 referred.
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Online Ed Here
Comment 78:
Watch the webcast again and note the look on Brian Taylors face when Salmond confronts him with the BBC's behaviour. Taylor looks stunned and clearly didn't anticipate the First Minister's justifiable anger at the BBC.
I believe that a similar fate awaits Glenn Campbell and they'll take him to task at a moment when he least expects it - it will be very public and definitely live.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Once again my honest debating comment is referred by a multiple moniker?
Where is the justice? surely the moderators are capable of making their own moderation's if required?.
It's seem there is a worm/virus in the system! where all honest posts are removed.
Now! why would AS be selected to represent his party in any future GE TV debates if he was standing down as an MP?.
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81. U14094468
"Watch the webcast again and note the look on Brian Taylors face when Salmond confronts him with the BBC's behaviour."
Saw that. Another masterful performance from Salmond.
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Can't be all sun and sandwiches in Inverness !
I had a mother-in -law who spread sarnies with a spoon !!!
Sober when she was shouting for SNP.
No spinoff from Westminister re expenses !
Surely someone has sinned a little ???
Must be little,or nothing,or the Daily Telegraph would
have headlines everywhere !!!
Brian,do us a favour,change your headline often and get more
responses.
plebisites 1089 !A record but ------.
Something new tomorrow tomorrow ???
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Brian ... just watched the webcast with Alex .. and they accuse Alex of eating to much pies ... jeepers you make him look like Posh Spice by comparison !
Giggle. Give it up mate . Take you meds and let Derek come and play for a bit.
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#85 spinspamspun
"plebisites 1089 !A record but ------"
Not even close to the record. The Keeping time from July through to Brian's return in August currently stands at 2,022. There was another very long one in Summer 2008.
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79. Neil_Small147
"But I hope MacAskill is not trying to play media games here. For one it is not the SNPs strongest suit and secondly it lowers the SNP to the level of the other parties.
On the other hand, if he is playing games, then why will he not name them? He could cause significant damage to Labour."
He'd be crazy to spend the capital of integrity he has gained in such a way.
Call me naive, but I think he's simply said as much as he can without looking crass.
Anyway that's me for the night...
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75. Brownedov
That comes out better than what I wrote! LOL babelfish rules!
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#89 oldnat
"That comes out better than what I wrote! LOL babelfish rules!"
Sorry to pick on one of yours but had I taken an example from Mr G, babelfish would have clarified it!
Puts me in mind of a probably apocryphal tale about a German producing an English-Portuguese phrasebook knowing neither language but armed with English-Latin and Portuguese-Latin dictionaries and a smattering of Latin himself.
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#90
So the anglo-saxon language commonly known as English derived from a Germanic source. Bablefish and onions?.
Are you trying too pickle the general public Brownedov?.
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90.
Oh it's not apocryphal. The book is called English As She Is Spoke, by Pedro Carolino and José da Fonseca and published in 1883. Unhampered by any knowledge of English, but armed with a Latin-English-Latin dictionary, Carolino translated da Fonseca's Portuguese-French phrasebook to create a Portuguese-English phrasebook.
It contains usefuls phrases like to craunch the marmoset and helpfully informs us that a hedge hog is a sorte of fish. It also recommends the following phrase when conversing about gardens -
I have a particular care of its, because I know you like the bottoms.
No, I don't know what that means either.
But I think Carolino knew his task was a difficult one, he also tells us
It is difficult to enjoy well so much several langages.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_As_She_Is_Spoke
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#84. At 01:00am on 17 Oct 2009, Electric Hermit wrote:
81. U14094468
"Watch the webcast again and note the look on Brian Taylors face when Salmond confronts him with the BBC's behaviour."
Saw that. Another masterful performance from Salmond.
You'd think journalists would eventually learn. Alex Salmond is truly a master. Mr. Taylor's face spoke volumes.
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# 48 gavinahill
I think that you will find that the article is Croatian, not Hungarian. Nice that they choose to put up a picture of London while discussing Scotland.
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# 55 nate_oz
The interview would only be unbalanced if our Brian did not attack, in the same way, the other leaders of the Scottish political parties. Are you saying that 'our Brian' is glencampbelled in his interviews? Surely not. ;-)
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Brian this week I think you have highlighted some problems in the SNP game plan
1) Currency - English Pound, Euro or even Scots Pound ! Complete with a referendum on currency. Is this to keep Dundee newspaper owners happy?
a) Keeping the English Pound? Not exactly home rule! No Votes No influence. The English at best would say "you are on your own - good luck to you"!
b) Scots Pound ? A brave new world. Most small countries in the EU have decided that this is not the way ahead. Denmark (before the SNP bloggers start) has its currency pegged to the Euro.
c) The euro - this would give Scotland an anchor which would be useful in the potential interesting times post independence. Also we will need as much support and influence as we can get from Europe to counter the potentially difficult relationship with the other side of the divorce from England. Given the dislike even hatred of the Euro in the press (which influences pensioners who vote) I doubt that the optimum policy in an independent Scotland would get through a referendum.
2) Air Force bases. England to keep it's bases. Do the SNP in Moray really think that an independent English government in London is going to subsidise Moray? In any referendum on Scottish independence the London government will say pay for your own air force bases. Two airforce bases (Lossiemouth & Kinloss) a few miles apart look very expensive....
3) Letting the Americans stay in the Clyde might be sensible politics - friends are important after a divorce - but I suspect that many anti-nuclear SNP types would find this difficult to accept.
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Quick update from last night - happy to report the SNP have wholeheatedly adopted Conservative Party Chairman Eric Pickles' dictat - No champagne! I was at an absolutely heaving event last night, at the Ramada Hotel and there was no champagne whatsoever in sight. Plenty of lager, vodka and cola, wine etc - but absolutely no champagne.
The SNP is still the party of the people.
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#96. At 07:52am on 17 Oct 2009, uk_abz_scot wrote:
Brian this week I think you have highlighted some problems in the SNP game plan
1) Currency - English Pound, Euro or even Scots Pound ! Complete with a referendum on currency. Is this to keep Dundee newspaper owners happy?
I know the concept of letting the people make major decision is a foreign concept in your part of the world but there are a lot of countries that do it.
You might try it. Heck, you might even like it.
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I have to say, the BBC coverage of the SNP conference has been pathetic compared to the coverage given to the London based parties.
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# 96 uk_abz_scot
Can you supply us with a list of all the independent countries that have UK troops stationed in them? When you have perused that list then tell me again why the English might not want to keep armed forces stationed here. One of the roles of the RAF in Leuchars is to meet the patrolling Russian Air Force as they come around the top of Norway. Is there any reason why that should change? Even if it does, why should an independent Scotland concern itself with the movements of the Russian Air Force when it is only the concern of the USA and its European lapdog, the UK? Our Scottish Air Force will be more concerned at looking afer OUR natural resources off OUR coastline. The Russians are no longer the USSR determined on world domination and, as such, deserve to be treated with respect. I wonder how much the Russians would pay us to lease our airbases? ;-)
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# 99 mysteriousRiverclyde
You'd think there was a by-election coming up soon, wouldn't you.
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96 - more rebadging of the too wee and too stupid argument. 17 October 2009, try changing the pound abroad, people look upon it as toy town money, far safer with Dollar or Euro.
Why do you envisage a difficult relationship with England, is there a difficult relationship between England and Ireland? No, there is a mature relationship, of equals. We can disagree to agree, still be friends and agree on other issues, that's what diplomacy is all about.
Scotland has friends in Europe, why would this be a disadvantage in our relationship with England? Quite the reverse, Scotland may be a conduit for England to gain better relationships with her European cousins.
In an independent Scotland, the anti-independence bias of the press would logically be over. Also logically, the press would rally behind the nation and government.
Have you a modern example of where a small country has gained independence from a larger neighbour, that the small country has economically or culturally gone backwards and whose defense has been placed at risk?
Lagely the basis of your argument rest with the old chesnut that the English will resents Scots if we leave the union and make life difficult for us. I for one have more faith in our neighbours than that. I believe we will leave with their best wishes and more respect than if we stay in the half way house of devolution.
D McN
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# 99 mysteriousRiverclyde
To be fair to BBC Scotland the coverage of the Labour Party conference wasn't that much better. However, I suppose this was due to the glaring holes in Labour's U-turns (oops, I meant policies). It wouldn't have done the UK Labour movement any favours if there was an in depth analysis of their policies. Thank God the BBC didn't do that as they would have handed the election over to the Tories in the UK and the SNP in Scotland.
Did anyone noticed the unspoken agreement between AS and 'our Brian' when the subject of the monarchy was brought up? It looks as if Her Majesty is not against the idea of independence as it was obvious to Brian when he quickly got off that subject. Another point to AS.
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#100. Exactly.
Anyone who thinks that the UK has bases in Scotland because they want to be nice to the Scots should think again.
They are there because the UK military needs them.
As long as they do, they'll pay to keep them. When they don't they'll abandon them whether Scotland is independent or not. Anyone who thinks otherwise nees to open their eyes and look at the real world.
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# 102 Donald_McNairn
I believe we will leave with their best wishes and more respect than if we stay in the half way house of devolution.
I agree with you that when the moment of the break comes that this will be the attitude of the vast majority of the English. However, while Scotland is still in the Union, and when it is beyond doubt that we will leave, then I expect the UK government to 'stuff' it to us as much as they can, then revert to being nice and neighbourly.
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#81 That wasn't the only shining moment in the interview tho. Alex also had a dig when Brian read out a question that had bad grammer and also reminded Brian of his own arithmatic failures ! Of course Brian retaliated 'so droll so droll'.
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Plenty happening here at the Eden Court for the SNP conference.
You know since even Brian Taylor admits that, it's rather a shame that BBC Scotland has so refused to cover all that -- plenty happening.
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# 104 JRMacClure
I wonder why it takes a foreigner from the USA (a nice one, I hasten to add) to point out the obvious?
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Online Ed Here
Comment 83 referred.
Interesting item this morning regading the suggestion that the tax man is about to demand unpaid tax for 'benefits' from some MP's.
As far as I know it was never published in any Scottish newspaper that Jim Murphy claimed almost £2000 in order to pay private accountants to handle his tax returns. [It was covered by Newsnet Scotland]
Apparently 27 MP's are currently being investigated and could face a fine as well as being forced to pay the tax.
Murphy has yet to reveal the contents of his letter from Legg !!
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# 109 U14094468
I suspect that we will hear all about the Scottish MPs after the by-election. It wouldn't do for the BBC and the rest of the Scottish media to release details of suspected abuse of the expenses before a by-election.
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giggletheloneranger
The Salmond lad should only join in debate if it is a Party leaders debate and that should be with Brown, Cameron etc if it is a Westminster debate then it should be the Party Leader in the house.
In Scotland there is no Labour part any more its cannot make decisionsfor Scotland.
Add to this the Labour position on expenses and you see that they are doomed.
SLAB need to break free and demand Fiscal Autonomy, otherwise they will be out manoeuvred by either the Tories or the LDs who will support the Referendum and put forward their proposal for Fiscal powers.
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#111 thatweec ... i cant see either 'Scottish' Labour or 'Scottish' Torys being able to break away from their main partys. The Lib Dems however i think are pretty much at rock bottom anyway and need to do something to get voters on their side. They have already announced a review of their attitude towards a referendum on independence but will Tavish allow it or will the party rebel against him ?
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105 – agreed, the maturity in which our elected government handles the dirty campaign will be crucial.
Who does the half way house of devolution benefit?
In Scotland, 150 to 250 people's careers within the unionist parties, i.e, MPs, MSPs, Lords and paid party workers / researchers. Oops, almost forgot the bbc.
Do the English benefit? Not in my view, to be truthful they couldn't care less. Scotland is not on the English agenda, excepting that they deeply resent the means Brown came to power and Scottish labour MPs voting on issues that effect England only. I am 100% in support of our neighbours on this. Scotland had exactly the same feeling over Thatcher and will have exactly the same feeling when Cameron is elected in 2010.
A nation being governed by a government it did not elect, is undemocratic, a main criticism of the status quo. Will labour endorse tory rule of Scotland in 2010, or work with the consensus that is moving towards independence?
Back to the question, who does the half way house of devolution benefit? Neither nation, merely transient union politicians feathering their own careers and nests. This is not sustainable and in my view the amicable and mutual parting of ways needs to come as soon as possible to prevent a souring of relationships.
D McN
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# 113 Donald_McNairn
Do the English benefit? Not in my view, to be truthful they couldn't care less. Scotland is not on the English agenda,
I suspect that you are correct in this assessment of the English attitude to the Scots. I have lived in England for decades now and the predominant view is that the country (Scotland) is nice but is inhabited by a bunch of whingers. Looking at it from the English point of view it certainly looks that way but when I point out a few 'facts' to my English friends they are soon lost for an argument to back up their point of view, either that or they are fed up with me putting them in their place. Something tells me that the latter is more probably truer than the former.
Just an aside; if/when Scotland gets its independence and Brown returns home (if he dares) who is going to pay for his bodyguards that all ex-UK PMs have? I think it would be sickening that the Scots will have to pay for a Scot who went out of his way to try and destroy the democratically elected government of the country that he will retire to. Just a thought.
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gedguy2
He may be a PM in England when he comes here he may get tried for treason. He has undermined Scotland and the great Labour Party for his own career.
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Just highlighting this: There is TV coverage of the SNP conference (presumably Alex Salmond's speech) this afternoon. 14:20 on BBC Two (Scotland only).
The online 'live' coverage of the SNP conference is here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7927039.stm There's a link suggestion for viewers outside the UK
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Brown is the most unusual of men. He is british, not Scottish, his actions make that abundantly clear!
Brown would have had visions of momentus success in office, lauded by public, admired by foes and friends alike. Then there would be elevation to the Lords, the lecture ciruit in the states, a statue or two and then somethng in the World Bank or EU.
Brown's predicament used to make me chuckle, now I feel quite sorry for him.
D McN
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117. Donald_McNairn
"Brown would have had visions of momentus success in office, lauded by public, admired by foes and friends alike."
I suspect he still sees himself this way.
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118 - fair point, I'm chuckling!
D McN
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Online Ed Here
The announcement of £100 million of funding from the EU for renewable projects in Scotland is a reminder of just how significant Scotland will become to European power generation.
There is currently a drive to build a North Sea power grid, linking Scotland with the Netherlands, Denmark and Norway. Of course the potential to generate and sell this power to other European contries is enormous and will, over time, dwarf the benefits from hydrocarbons.
The two main comodities of this century will be water and renewable electricity. Oil will still feature of course, but more for manufacturing than for locomotion, Scotland of course is well placed to supply all three.
Scotland won't just survive as an independent country - Scotland stands ready to join a virtual super league of rich nations. Only one thing will prevent this from happening and that is a continuation of the system that has seen Scotland's resources wasted as Westminster desperately persists with this vain illusion that the UK is still a significant world player.
The buzzword is 'renewable' and Scotland is about to renew a long dormant membership and rejoin the world community. I wonder if Salmond will highlight the North Sea grid in todays speech?
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120. U14094468
"The buzzword is 'renewable' and Scotland is about to renew a long dormant membership and rejoin the world community."
All the more reason why the Scottish government should be represented at the forthcoming climate change summit in Copenhagen.
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# 120 U14094468
I agree with you that Scotland's future potentially looks good. The problem we have is convincing those sitting on the fence that independence will further our chances of raising our standards of living instead of being conned by the UK government into thinking that we are being subsidised by the English. We need to keep up the pressure on those who have not made up their minds just yet and show to them that they are being conned by the British media into thinking that we can't do it. It isn't going to be easy but we must forge ahead with the potential bonuses that would accrue to us if we had independence. Of course, the problem that we have is not only the full force of the media against us but the refusal of the UK government to release the true figures of Scotland's input to the UK economy.
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# 115 thatweec
when he comes here he may get tried for treason
Maybe slightly harsh, after all, he is a Unionist and I am sure that he holds that view with utter conviction. I respect the view that the Unionists have; I just don't agree with it.
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122. gedguy2
"The problem we have is convincing those sitting on the fence that independence will further our chances of raising our standards of living instead of being conned by the UK government into thinking that we are being subsidised by the English."
It shouldn't be that difficult. Just ask them how much benefit tey and their families have seen from Scotland's oil wealth under foreign control.
Ask them if they are content that Scotland's potential in renewables should be squandered in the same way.
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Ed Miliband secures Scotland £100 million from the EU renewable funds.
Will Salmond try and snatch the success?.
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# 124 Electric Hermit
It shouldn't be that difficult. Just ask them
That is the problem that we have, because we don't get a fair crack of the media whip in Scotland, we can't ask them. The propaganda put out by the Unionist media in Scotland is swamping what little we are managing to get out there. If we were fighting on a level playing field with the Unionists then I suspect that we would have had our independence decades ago.
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# 125 giggletheloneranger
Come off it, Derek. You know that this was an EU instigated policy and the Milliband is just attaching his name to it, as all politicians tend to do.
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123. gedguy2
"I respect the view that the Unionists have..."
I would respect it more if they were to actually defend their position instead of resorting to the deplorable negativity of dishonest anti-nationalist propaganda and vitriolic attacks on the Scottish government and the SNP.
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127. gedguy2
"Come off it, Derek. You know that this was an EU instigated policy and the Milliband is just attaching his name to it, as all politicians tend to do."
You seem to be suggesting that "Derek" is telling lies. Unionists wouldn't do that. Would they?
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13.25 and there are queues outside the main auditorium. Parents and children, grand parents and grand children, in some ways it feels more like a concert than a political event. The faithful have gathered for the Alex Salmond show and the expectation in the air is palpable.
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125. giggletheloneranger
"Ed Miliband secures Scotland £100 million from the EU renewable funds.
Will Salmond try and snatch the success?"
The success is his anyway. The funding is a direct result of talks that Alex Salmond had with EU North Sea grid co-ordinator Georg Adamowitsch back in January. The fact that Bute House was Adamowitsch's first stop on a tour of EU countries underlines the importance of Scotland in relation to future energy supplies. As does the fact that Scotland will be represented in its own right on the EU's North Sea Grid development grid.
All of which highlights the deplorable pettiness of the UK government's refusal to allow Scottish ministers a place at the Copenhagen climate change conference.
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131. Electric Hermit
"As does the fact that Scotland will be represented in its own right on the EU's North Sea Grid development grid."
CORRECTION
That should read, "North Sea Grid development group".
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Some thoughts on Alex Salmond while we're waiting for the afternoon session to start. Alex is, undoubtedly, the most effective political weapon in the SNP's armoury. However, in relation to the Independence debate, the person I'm most interested in isn't neccessarily Alex Salmond, it's the leaders who come after Alex Salmond.
Say we achieve Independence in ten years, a not entirely unreasonable timescale, by then Alex will be, at the very least, in the Autumn of his political career. But Scotland will still need a strong, inspiring leader. Alex Salmond, sadly, can't lead the party forever. But a newly independent Scotland will be a nation and a society for the ages.
That's why I'm so inspired and encouraged by the collective ability and competance on display at this conference. All the way round the Cabinet table; the SNP boasts portfolio leaders whose ability shames their opponets across the floor (Or round the hemi-cycle).
Kenny MacCaskill or Richard Baker? Fiona Hyslop or Rhona Brankin? Their relative merits (Or demerits) are obvious. Which is why, as we wait for the start of the Alex Salmond show; I'm hoping for a rousing speech, a great performance. But, rest assured, there's far more to the SNP in 2009 than just Alex Salmond and it's this collective competance and strength, united with the collective will of the Scottish people that will deliver independence in the end.
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Severe lack of confidence by the Scots regarding independence, my father is the exact same, however, all the evidence suggests that Scotland would be a lot more prosperous should it secede from the UK. I think the argument of who subsidises who goes both way, but per head of population, Scotland definitely sends more money south of the border than it receives. GERS has shown for the last two years that Scotland would be in Surplus should it divorce from its neighbour, I feel like we are a colony of England, when decolonisation happened, Scotland should have went its own way, we then would have actually benefitted from our oil, I doubt very much that Scotland would have been in this dire situation should it have been independent.
All of the nonsense about UK bailing out the banks is pathetic also, RBS has returned billions to the UK exechequer for years, paying in far more than it recieved in state aid, with the size of its bank book and fast return to profitability the share prize is going to raise substantially and make the UK Exechequer millions in profit, ashame really.
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I think all us supporters of independence should start campaigning now, but campaigning the facts to those who lack confidence in what we can achieve, give people a real pespective of how things can be. Maybe then people will take notice and stop saying that we don't want a referendum, we elected the SNP, a party whose very cause was independence, surely by voting in the SNP these daft politicians in England and Scotland for that matter can understand that its the settled will of the Scottish people, not just a minority, but all those who vote the SNP, to have a referendum.
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133. Cassiel1991
"Kenny MacCaskill or Richard Baker? Fiona Hyslop or Rhona Brankin? Their relative merits (Or demerits) are obvious. Which is why, as we wait for the start of the Alex Salmond show; I'm hoping for a rousing speech, a great performance. But, rest assured, there's far more to the SNP in 2009 than just Alex Salmond and it's this collective competance and strength, united with the collective will of the Scottish people that will deliver independence in the end."
Well said!
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Lesley Riddoch tries very hard to say negative things about the SNP conference in the latest Guardian pro-Union rant on Scottish politics. It seems that her main complaint is that the SNP is better at wooing the unions than the Labour party. The unions are "lapping up Salmond's small beer", she whines.
Small beer from the SNP is a whole lot better than the poisoned chalice offered by Labour.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/oct/16/scottish-national-party-salmond-unions
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Our person on the inside tells us that Alex's like tunnock tea cakes and a few dozen shortbread makes.
O' and the speech! it's all about the importance of Westminster?
Why? .................................
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Online Ed Here
First three minutes of FM's speech effectively cut off by the BBC. A voiceover just as Salmond was starting his speech and mentioning the Glasgow NE by election, the voiceover ensured that Salmond could not be heard.
There had better be a good explanation for this!!
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Online Ed Here
Re: my comment 139
I wonder if this is due to the writ for the said by-election now officially having been moved?
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139. U14094468
"
There had better be a good explanation for this!! "
There is. They are a bunch of morons.
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140. U14094468
"I wonder if this is due to the writ for the said by-election now officially having been moved?"
Probably. But the way it was done was clumsy and intrusive.
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Clearly a speech about the importance of Westminster, not too many references to Independence? a very left of centre speech attacking the cuts that westminster would introduce under a tory government.
Yip! AS would serve Scotland better at westminster.
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Good speech from Salmond. No overblown rhetoric. Just simple good sense on a range of issues. No huge promises. No dire threats. Highlighting the Scottish government's achievements while giving credit to others where it is due. Very good.
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143. giggletheloneranger
"AS would serve Scotland better at westminster. "
Alex Salmond is not standing in the UK general election. The SNP candidate for the Banff and Buchan seat currently held by Salmond has already been chosen - Dr Eilidh Whiteford.
Do try to keep up.
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#144 EH
Come on Electric! it was Salmonds parting speech, it was about trying to convince the electorate that the SNP dont flag up Independence, it was about trying to convince the electorate that the SNP are relevant to UK wide politics even although they are a party that wants Independence. It was a speech that tries to say that the SNP would protect Scotland from any future cuts. It was in short riddled with holes, you could shoot peas through the whole speech, apart from Alex Salmonds desire to return to westminster.
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134. At 2:01pm on 17 Oct 2009, nate_oz wrote:
Severe lack of confidence by the Scots regarding independence....
I am someone who sits on the fence regarding independence, simply because there are still too many unanswered questions.
The support for the SNP is growing, but that does not necessarily means people are ready to take the step to independence just yet. I'll probably vote for them next year in the GE. But at present I am yet to be convinced on independence, although I tend to lean more on that side.
And you cannot be too critical of people not having confidence. Independence is a huge change to make. For many people they cannot see the difference between unionism and independence.
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Why did AS open his speech with an attack on Nicola Sturgeon?
Why didn't AS mention that the white paper for the Independence referendum would be released in 6weeks?
Why did AS relate a new forth crossing to the end of nuclear arms, have the nats also dropped the new forth crossing?
Why did AS try and say Scotland could escape any future cuts if they had 20 MP's in westminster?
Why did AS try and relate NHS costs to the cut of the GARL, when clearly 1Bn to fund tax cuts could have covered the cost?.
Why didn't AS rule himself out of standing as a candidate again for westminster?.
Why could AS only muster up help and jobs for only 7,000 Scots, when unemployment is rising faster than at any level in history?.
Why could AS only account for 1Bn of the SFT costs, when several Bn's over three budgets have supposedly gone into it?.
Yes! folks! it's why why and why???.
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An impressive speech.
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Neil Small,
You are quite right, I do not always choose the best words, I think that it is down to the politicians to make it clear the implications of independence for those sitting on the fence.
I'm unsure that the SNP will spend their resources doing this though when the opposition parties plan to block the referendum bill anyway.
One thing I hope all Scots will see and agree with, is that the Scottish Conservatives, Scottish Labour & Liberal Democrats are denying the Scots their right to have their say on Scottish Independence, this is not a democracy when we do not get our say, some may be against or on the fence but everyone agrees its the people of Scotland's decision, not that of Iain Grey, Annabel or Tavish.
So in return for this, everyone should vote the SNP and teach these parties a lesson come the next election.
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Online Ed Here
Pretty good speech by Salmond, positive and with vision and very clear references to Scotland and her people. A difference from the negative and extreme language used by both Labour and Conservatives.
It is clear that the BBC are pretty much obsessed with asking every SNP spokeperson [repeatedly] who they favour to form the next UK Government. Westminster dominates the BBC mindset and results in the kind of questions we heard asked - ad nauseum.
Glenn Campbell again seemed on the verge of losing it, he is fast becoming the focus of viewers attention and not his questions. His opening gambit that was ignored by Nicola Sturgeon was to say that the ovations for MacAskill and Sturgeon had been engineered by the FM - quite how Campbell knows this is anyones guess.
Jim Murphy's comments re: arc of insolvency were pretty much destroyed by one SNP address to conference, pity that the BBC never seem to ask Murphy any hard questions.
Never mind though, the move towards independence pretty much continues and the message from the SNP is clear as we near the next UK election; the only party with Scotland's interests at heart is the SNP.
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#150. I'm unsure that the SNP will spend their resources doing this though when the opposition parties plan to block the referendum bill anyway.
It wouldn't even make sense for them to spend their resources convincing of the implications of independence (or trying to) until a referendum is approved. And since that is unlikely to be for 2010 they aren't going to waste those very precious resources.
Once a referendum is approved as it is likely to be after the Holyrood election, then they MUST address that.
People who demand that the SNP answer such questions now simply, in my view, are not being realistic. You don't fight a battle before it starts.
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146. giggletheloneranger
"apart from Alex Salmonds desire to return to westminster. "
Alex Salmond is not standing in the UK general election. The SNP candidate for the Banff and Buchan seat currently held by Salmond has already been chosen - Dr Eilidh Whiteford.
Which part of this is causing you such confusion?
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148. giggletheloneranger
"Why did AS open his speech with an attack on Nicola Sturgeon?"
Sorry! I did try very hard to treat you as a serious contributor. But inanities such as this make it completely impossible.
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Did anyone else notice 'our Brian' having to correct Glenn Campbell? I noticed three occasions when he had to do that. I really don't understand why the bosses at BBC Scotland employ this man.
The speech by AS was well written and presented. Definitely a speech aimed at the upcoming GE and with an eye to the by-election in Glasgow NE.
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150. nate_oz
"So in return for this, everyone should vote the SNP and teach these parties a lesson come the next election."
A fair point. Although I would rather people voted for more positive reasons.
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# 148 giggletheloneranger
All those questions, Derek and not one of them sensible. Here's a question for you: Why do you bother?
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Glenn Campbell really is a joke as a news journalist. By the way, BBC, in NORMAL journalism you do not only pick out opponents of a party to discuss these things. It was VERY noticeable that as usual Mr. Campbell can't be bothered with talking to someone who doesn't echo his (and one assumes BBC's) views.
It didn't change the fact that Mr. Salmond is one impressive man. No wonder he is so tremendously popular in Scotland. Looking at it from a distance, he made what sounded like a good case for voting SNP which was, after all, what the speech was really about.
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# 129 Electric Hermit
You seem to be suggesting that "Derek" is telling lies. Unionists wouldn't do that. Would they?
Moi? Heaven forbid that I would lower myself to their level. ;-)
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# 128 Electric Hermit
Fair point.
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#153 EH
Who mentioned Banff and Buchan, the insider say's Salmond fancy his chances in the livingston constituency.
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Seems like it was a great speech if the text was as released by the SNP, but I was unable to watch it live and no video seems available yet. Will someone post a URL here if they spot it, please?
In the meantime, it would seem that both the BBC and Sky News are in a misleading headline war, with "Bomber compassion 'like Gandhi'" and "MacAskill v Gandhi". Unusually, the BBC don't even provide a NuLab rentaquote to mouth the single-quoted words but simply make them up.
Business as usual, I suppose.
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155. gedguy2
"Did anyone else notice 'our Brian' having to correct Glenn Campbell?"
I got the distinct impression that Brian was getting a bit fed up with Campbell. And no wonder. His interviewing technique is quite appalling. I am more than happy to have journalists quizzing politicians, and quizzing them hard. But the aim should be to elicit from them honest answers to meaningful questions on matters of importance. Not trying to badger and harass them into saying what the interviewer wants to hear.
Even if this was acceptable, Campbell isn't very good at it. So what use is he?
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#157 gedguy
Answer the question gedguy! stop trying to run away from the tough choices.
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Online Ed Here
155. At 5:17pm on 17 Oct 2009, gedguy2 wrote:
Did anyone else notice 'our Brian' having to correct Glenn Campbell?
Yes, Campbell at one point tried to suggest that Salmond was the only senior member of the SNP who articulates a social message - this garbage was indeed corrected by Taylor.
Glenn Campbell is too young (32?) to hold the elevated position he does at the BBC in Scotland. Brewer is head and shoulders above him as was former STV presenter Michael Crow [now advisor to the Conservatives].
Incidently, I telephones a complaint to the BBC about the way that Salmonds opening couple of minutes was rendered inaudible. Part of the opening mentioned the forthcoming Glasgow NE by-election but much of it did not.
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161. giggletheloneranger
"Who mentioned Banff and Buchan, the insider say's Salmond fancy his chances in the livingston constituency. "
The SNP Candidate for Westminster in the Livingston constituency is Lis Bardell.
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#166
Speculation is that she could stand aside for health reasons?
We will keep an eye on it!.
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# 164 giggletheloneranger
Derek, people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. The day you start answering questions put to you is the day pigs will fly. Your last reincarnation was verging on becoming an asset to this blog and then 'giggle' happened. If you want to indulge in political discourse then it may be benificial for you if you acted in a manner that would endear you to the posters on this site instead of being treated with the contempt that you deserve. Sometimes you come out with some decent statements and give the impression that you are willing to act in a rational manner and then...well, we know what happens. If you want to be taken seriously instead of a 'junk poster' then act in a more serious manner; you can still have a laugh as well, you know.
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Read through the text of the speech as released by the SNP.
Pretty solid, although one or two iffy bits:
Fishing - the only way Scotland will fully protect its fishing rights is if it is independent of the UK and Europe.
Comparing MacAskill to Ghandi is a little bit too much.
On the positives, he rightly pointed out the achievements in health, arguably the SNPs strongest suit. And he hinted it will be used as a message in the bye-election up against the cancelled air link.
All in all a good speech.
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#168
Why do you persist in this cat and mouse chase? I'm trying to be honest and open to the political questions and answers that are thrown up here.
The SNP are doing their best to try and convince the electorate they have apart to play in the future GE and British politics.
While also trying to keep their core vote happy with the Independence issue.
Gedguy! you cant have it both ways, do you want to continue as a party that supports Independence or a party that wants to take part in the UK political arena. What do the SNP mean by a hung parliament/ in terms of who would they support as the next Prime Minister?.
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Online Ed Here
Comment 167 referred.
Click here to read a transcript of Salmond's speech.
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162. At 5:26pm on 17 Oct 2009, Brownedov wrote:
Seems like it was a great speech if the text was as released by the SNP, but I was unable to watch it live and no video seems available yet. Will someone post a URL here if they spot it, please?
In the meantime, it would seem that both the BBC and Sky News are in a misleading headline war, with "Bomber compassion 'like Gandhi'" and "MacAskill v Gandhi". Unusually, the BBC don't even provide a NuLab rentaquote to mouth the single-quoted words but simply make them up.
Business as usual, I suppose.
browndov, I just read your post! I read through the text of the speech and have yet to look at either BBC or Sky, but it does read that MacAskill is being compared to Ghandi, which as I stated above is a bit too much. Someone should have spotted that one as the media have now used it.
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167. giggletheloneranger
"Speculation is that she could stand aside for health reasons?"
"Speculation" is a rather grand term for the nonsense you make up as you go along.
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#172
Neil! Mahatma MacAskill has a very long river to swim to brush off his new tag!.
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169. Neil_Small147
"Fishing - the only way Scotland will fully protect its fishing rights is if it is independent of the UK and Europe."
Not at all. It is only the Common Fisheries Policy that needs to be reformed or scrapped. And that is what the SNP are aiming for. The UK government has proved worse than useless when it comes to looking after the interests of the fishing industry. An independent voice within the EU could hardly help but be an improvement.
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#173
That's pretty unfair and misconstrued, surely your not trying to professionally mislead me?.
Whether your taking a grandstand or an armchair interest, surely you have a right to an open opinion!.
Was Gandhi violent? or peaceful! follow the truth Electric, your good mind deserves it.
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175. At 6:37pm on 17 Oct 2009, Electric Hermit wrote:
169. Neil_Small147
"Fishing - the only way Scotland will fully protect its fishing rights is if it is independent of the UK and Europe."
Not at all. It is only the Common Fisheries Policy that needs to be reformed or scrapped. And that is what the SNP are aiming for. The UK government has proved worse than useless when it comes to looking after the interests of the fishing industry. An independent voice within the EU could hardly help but be an improvement.
Good point, but I'd argue that Spain have the biggest clout over fishing. But then fishing isn't politically sexy enough for Westminster.
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169. Neil_Small147
"Comparing MacAskill to Ghandi is a little bit too much. "
Or would have been, if that was what he did. But he didn't, of course. What he actually did was to present MacAskill's decision on al-Megrahi in the context of Arun Gandhi's explanation of the Mahatma's philosophy. which is a rather different thing.
Salmond might also have spoken of MacAskill's decision in relation to the teachings of Jesus Christ. But surely not even the most demented unionist would suggest that MacAskill could be compared with the "Son of God".
The fact that the BBC has chosen this as its headline is just further confirmation of the blatant bias agains the SNP. No great surprise there.
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#172 Neil_Small147
I'll respond on the new thread
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170. giggletheloneranger
"do you want to continue as a party that supports Independence or a party that wants to take part in the UK political arena."
A false choice. And a rather foolish one, at that. The two things are not mutually exclusive. As evidenced by the fact that the SNP is a party the "supports Independence" and a party which operates in a UK context. Has done for a very long time now. You see, there is no alternative until after independence is achieved.
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#178 Electric Hermit
169. Neil_Small147
"Comparing MacAskill to Ghandi is a little bit too much."
"Or would have been, if that was what he did. But he didn't, of course. What he actually did was to present MacAskill's decision on al-Megrahi in the context of Arun Gandhi's explanation of the Mahatma's philosophy. which is a rather different thing."
EH: Spot on, and extremely well said. Worth posting on the new thread, I think.
Neil: I doubt I can improve on EH's post and will leave it at that.
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177. Neil_Small147
"Good point, but I'd argue that Spain have the biggest clout over fishing. But then fishing isn't politically sexy enough for Westminster."
An earlier speech by a delegate whose name escapes me was rather interesting on the topic of fishing. Basically, it referred to Scotland within the EU pressing for reform of the CFP by calling on support from nations such as Iceland and Norway. This seems to me to be the way forward for nations such as Scotland. Being part of informal alliances of smaller nations within the context of the EU and beyond. Indeed, Scotland has considerable advantages in this regard due to its "natural" affiliations with both Celtic and Nordic nations.
And before somebody jumps down my throat, I am fully aware that Iceland and Norway are not EU members. But no European can possibly be totally isolated from the EU - however much the Europhobes like to pretend that they can. Both Norway and Iceland will eventually join. Until then, they are linked through the likes of the European Economic Area (EEA) and the European Free Trade Association (EFTA). And even as relative "outsiders" both are nations with substantial fishing industries and considerable interest in EU policy that cannot help but affect them.
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