Striking a balance
Voters frequently yearn for the "pure and simple truth".
Understandably, they want politicians to be straightforward with them, to tell it as it is.
Then the wicked media pile in - and demand "straight answers to straight questions"
Result? Politicians seek sanctuary in platitudes, saying nothing in particular but saying it awfully well.
Of course, truth in absolute is rarely pure and never simple. Political decisions can be complex, often hideously so.
They will seldom present straight choices. Rather they are an amalgam of competing pressures.
Such is the case with the current controversy over alcohol in Scotland.
Alcohol problems
The Scottish government is about to introduce a Bill to set minimum prices for drinks, calculated by volume of alcohol.
The measure is supported by health professionals who say it will force up the price for certain drinks commonly associated with alcohol problems.
This, they say, will have discernible benefits for Scotland's health.
Critics say the measure may be illegal or ineffective or insufficient - or a blend of all three.
Then there is a further aspect.
The Scotch whisky trade is seriously concerned that such a move would have drastic, unintended consequences for their business.
Their argument is that they have fought a prolonged battle over many years to prevent foreign countries from imposing discriminatory duty on Scotch in order to prop up home-grown products.
They say there are countries which will use the precedent set by minimum pricing in Scotland to impose punitive duties on whisky. This is disputed by Scottish ministers.
Legal questions
How about that illegality point? Critics point to a ruling by the European Court's Advocate General to the effect that minimum pricing with regard to tobacco violated competition law.
No, say Ministers. That applied in the particular circumstances of an individual case. They cite a wider statement by the EU Commissioner, Gunther Verheugen, responsible for enterprise and industry.
Replying to Labour MEP Catherine Stihler, the Commissioner said that member states were not prohibited from using minimum pricing to pursue health directives, provided the measure fell within other aspects of Community law such as the free movement of goods.
One might quibble whether that ruling applies to devolved sub-divisions of EU member states - but ministers interpret this as meaning that minimum pricing is legal, provided a balance is struck.
They intend to strike that balance.
Which brings us, as ever at Holyrood, back to arithmetic. Can ministers assemble a coalition of support for this measure - which forms part of a much wider attempt to transform Scotland's attitude to alcohol?
Right now, looks difficult. The Liberal Democrats are against minimum pricing, preferring other measures.
'More evidence'
The Tories are also agin, opting for targeted duty increases on "problem drinks". It will be noted that this would involve action at a UK level, not in Scotland.
The Scottish Parliament has no control over duty.
Which leaves Labour. Over the weekend, they again demanded sight of the legal advice upon which ministers base their insistence that their initiative doesn't breach the law.
Further, they want more evidence that the measure would be effective.
Failing these, they say they remain unconvinced by the measure.
They back other initiatives - such as the Challenge 21 programme under which licence holders would be obliged to seek ID from anyone seeking to buy drink who appears to be under the age of 21.
Eighteen would remain the legal age for alcohol purchase.
Diluting proposals
Ministers say they are more than open to considering other ideas. They point out that their bill involves much more than minimum pricing.
There will be new constraints on the display and marketing of alcohol in off-sales premises. There will be curbs on heavy discount promotions.
Police forces will be able to request consideration of increasing the off-sales legal age to 21 in areas where there are substantial alcohol problems.
That is a diluted version of the original plan: proof, say ministers, that they are open to discussion.
But minimum pricing remains the big controversy - and will feature in the bill when it is published in mid-November.
Following that, the debate will intensify. Rarely pure, never simple.
I'm 
© MMIX~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~15~RS~)
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Brian
Given the extent and depth of our alcohol problems, every means is needed to combat the awful effects on our fellow Scots. Would the the Scottish Government could do something about the years of unionist decrying of us that contributes to the feeling of helplessness that fuels this problem.
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"Voters frequently yearn for the "pure and simple truth".
Understandably, they want politicians to be straightforward with them, to tell it as it is.
Then the wicked media pile in - and demand 'straight answers to straight questions'"
You got the first bit right Brian about the 'wicked' media... but surely you should have qualified the second bit with "- and demand 'straight answers to straight questions' as long as it suits the unionist agenda"
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Online Ed Here
Interesting Glasgow North East hustings debate on Friday hosted by Brian, topics included council house sell off’s as well as asylum seekers.
The link below covers some of the debate including Labour's embracing of right wing policies:
Click Here
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Online Ed Here
Like many others I had expected some kind of analysis of the Glasgow North east by-election, perhaps even of the debate broadcast on BBC Radio Scotland early Friday afternoon - sadlt, we're still waiting.
However ...
Given Willie Bain's accusation that anyone describing areas of Glasgow as ghetto's are "talking Glasgow down" I thought that someone in the media might just have picked up on one other politician who did just when he described areas of Govanhill as ghettos - the politician was Willie's Labour colleague Frank McAveety.
Click Here
The very issues raised by David Kerr, that so offended Willie Bain, are the self same issues that are leading to the problems McAveety quite correctly highlighted.
Perhaps Willie was thinking of his 'other' local community, that of Hammersmith also recently described by a tory councillor as a ghetto.
I wonder what word Willie would prefer? labour MP Tom Harris took exception to the label 'ghetto' being applied to areas of his own constituancy. When asked if there was an alternative that was acceptable to him he replied "deprived".
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Brian are you setting these up for us - get ready for more of the following;
Voters frequently yearn for the "pure and simple truth".
Aye Brian thats all we ever want, so why does everyone at BBC Scotland try do do the opposite.
"Then the wicked media pile in - and demand "straight answers to straight questions"
Naw then the wicked media pile in - and ask easy questions to Unionist politicians.
or the wicked media pile in - and twist current Scottish Government answers to any questions
or the wicked media pile in - and don't listen when they are given reasonable answers by current Scottish Government politicians to any questions
or the wicked media pile in - and ask glencambly questions in the hope the can help NuLiebour score points instead of helping the Scottish people.
I could go on and on but Brian I hope you and your colleagues get the gist and start following the BBC charter on impartiality which is often bragged about and reportedly followed to the letter by your mate Byford down in BeebLondon (who set your rules for you).
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Then the wicked media pile in - and demand "straight answers to straight questions"
Heres a straight question you can get the blonde girl that was asking everyone and their mother at the SNP conference who they'd prefer as the next prime minister to ask a room full of labour supporters, members and politicians,
Would you rather a Tory lead westminster governement or a Labour lead independant scottish government?
Go on, give it a bash, come on ask them. Then if one does answer, even though that wasnt the case, you can edit the response in such a fashion that it suits your agenda.
JOKE OF A CORPORATION
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Just bear with me as I get to the point I'm trying to make;
On "Morning Extra" this morning, we heard a debate on BBC Alba and the Gaelic language. During the phone-in there were several contributions that attributed the support to Gaelic as some sort of SNP plot.
Regardless of what you think are the best ways to preserve and promote the Gaelic language, what was evident within the content of some contributions was the clear lack of education that some people have received. Not only that, but a reluctance to embrace "Change."
So, here's my pitch on the alcohol problem; a massive commitment during early education on the negative aspects of Alcohol. I know it's a long term view, but it will work. It's the next generation that will reap the benefits. As for the present generation; if the politicians can't come up with solutions, then they have failed them.
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Politicians giving straight answers to straight question, am I dreaming has this ever happened.
Has the BBC ever put a straight difficult question to unionist parties.
Then again may be when it becomes SBC we will get straight questions to all political parties equally, with proper impartiality.Brian it is time you stand up and be counted stop dancing through the lillies and ask the right questions to all of the political hierarchy.
Good point on line ed who sets the topics for discussion, funny how they lean to Lab's agenda.
Drink yes the scurge of all Scots the twee typical representation of how others see us, but introduce something that might just help and bang, we are being too heavy handed, it is illegal depending on how it is put, no one is stopping people drinking reponsibly, but we need to get to those who abuse everyones else's right to walk down the street to the corner shop, to a restaurant in the town or the local chippie, once again this country panders and lets the minority rule the roost.
Cheers!!
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Online Ed Here
I have referred my own comment at number 4, it contained a factual inaccuracy.
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Brian - another worthy piece however yet again I have to ask:
How much have labour MPs scammed from the taxpayer, nothing or millions ? I really want to know.
Does the labour candidate for the forthcoming by-election actually live in london ?
Go on Brian try blogging on why we still don't know the answers to the questions I have posed.
Of course the media are wicked - as they never hold labour politicians to account. Thus labour MPs can say what they like and be certain they will get away with it (see online Ed @4).
Can you imagine what the news would be like if it was unbiased - they would have to ask labour MPs how much they have to pay back for starters ? I live in hope of a glencampbelly free BBC.
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Online Ed Here
Given Willie Bains assertion that anyone using terms like 'ghetto' describing areas of Glasgow are "talking glasgow down" I would like to draw your attention to the follwing:
Click Here
Wille Bain's Labour party colleague Frank McAveety endorses the views of Anne Lear of the Govanhill Housing Association. Mrs Lear describes the area of Govanhill as a ghetto, and lists appaling living conditions due to a lack of decent housing stock - an issue alluded to by David Kerr and one that so offended Willie Bain.
McAveety though endorsing Anne Lears views doesn't actually use the term ghetto, Frank opts for the more diplomatic phrase "slum living conditions".
Interestingly Labour MP Tom Harris once objected to 'ghetto' being used to describe areas of his own constituency. When asked what tern he considered more acceptable Harris replied "deprived".
Talking Glasgow down or as Brian puts it "pure and simple truth"?
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This is the second time recently that I am aware of that Brian has defended the BBC Scotland approach to political matters.
The first was his comments about one-day-wonder news items, which was so obviously an indirect reference to Christine Graham's expose that some of the evidence for Lockerbie was sent to Germany annnnd, oh, eh, em, America. Now Brian also dismisses the "pure and simple truth" as though it was unachievable. For a start Brian you could make a personal stand against the lies omissions and misrepresentations which we are subjected to from BBC Scotland. It would be noticed by the viewing public that you are doing this.
Nice to see that Reevel Alderson has the Lockerbie brief now and oor Glenn seems to have been ditched. Reevel comes over as a straight talker. I just hope it stays that way and he doesn't spoil his credibility. He gives the impression that he would be difficult to activate in the way BBC Scotland seems to have done for some of their presenters on politics, education and health matters.
On the question of sorting out drink problems. The opposition parties have had very little to offer in the way of solutions to this but when the SNP puts forward a plan all they can do is knock it down, with the usual gang of corporates trying to spin against it. I am sure the public will note their negativity. We shall see when it comes to a vote. That usually focuses the minds of the opposition.
I rather doubt if any foreign power is going to listen to what the Scottish whisky industry has got to say when these countries are trying to promote their own products or the health and wellbeing of their peoples.
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#12 Hamish 42- Afternoon, Mr Alderson was the main reporter on Lockerbie for as long as I can remember,which leaves only 2 scenario's .
Either Mr Campbell has been throwing his weight around and going for glory
Or Mr Alderson didn't want to be party to the sensationalist tripe that we finally got from Mr Outrage!
I know which my money is on!
and i know which one still has his reputation intact!
Sid
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Brian wrote :Then the wicked media pile in - and demand "straight answers to straight questions"
e.g
Why are the SNP still in power?
When will our lot be back in their rightful place running Scotland?
Are the recordbreaking ferrets from Auchinleck who knit their own jumpers above or below the footy in the running order tonight?
Do these red socks clash with my tie?
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Oh, aye, the bevvy, laid waste to generations of Scots ye ken....
Lets not pretend that its not a problem but lets not pretend that the same problems of drink, drugs, unemployment and the unchanging hopeless grind of day to day life do not exist in that Nirvana to our South. Go to any major "British" city and all that changes is the accent. People drink to excess, they shoot up and smoke. They hop from relationship to relationship with abandon.
The same people with the same problems made worse by the same old policies from the same old parties exist everwhere in this "United Kingdom".
Do, (purely as an example), the electors of Glasgow North East seriously think that things are going to change if they elect another London NuLab Clone ?
Anyone want to tell us what 74 years of Labour representation has done for Springburn ? Will Call-Me-dave and his mate IDS actually change anything in Moss-side, Toxteth, Easterhouse, Wester Hailes or Sighthill when they get in ?
Although one of the kent Ultra Cybernats on these pages, I do not agree with the policy of minimum pricing. I think that we should be enforcing the laws that we have.
However, I commend the Scottish Government for being prepared to look beyond the narrow vision of the "major" UK parties and try something different. I don't think that it will work but it has at least opened the debate.
A Straight Question - If we had happy, contented, contributing citizens in a fair and free country of social democratic justice, would drink and drugs be a problem ?
Or Should we tackle the cause before we tackle the symptoms ?
And before our Unionist Bretheren get off on "I'm blaming the Union for all our ills", I'm not. I'm blaming political parties of both hues for the wholesale destruction of the "UK" economy, for the erosion of people and society and hope. Take a look around Europe. The "United Kingdom" is the armpit of this continent. A society obsessed with celebrity and hedonism and when it doesn't work out, hit the bevvy and the smack.
Independence isn't all of the answer.
It may be a start.
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A video for BBC Scotland staff.
The Universality of Cheese.
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Well Brian,
I had a look in the supermarket to see what the impact on prices might be of a 40ppunit minimum price (the rate headlined in the recent research on the health benefits).
As far as I can see Scotch will hardly be affected and then only the very cheapest offerings.
What will be affected are the other high alcohol content drinks. I noticed the cheapest brands of gin and vodka would increase by maybe £4 per bottle.
That suggests to me that Scotch will benefit in the proposed new regime, as those people simply buying on price now will see no distinction between these and cheap Scotch.
As far as the opposition parties are concerned they have to explain why they would allow the fatal carnage to continue, assuming of course that they accept the validity of the academic research on the health benefits. Personally I thought it highly persuasive.
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#11 - I grew up in Govanhill. While it was never affluent, it had its nice bits. Now even those have degenerated into a slum. If people want to be offended by that description, too bad.
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#15 Chiefy1724
Oddly enough, I was speaking with a guy a few days ago who took the view that Scotland's drink problems were no different from those suffered by other indigenous peoples who had been badly treated or displaced in their own countries.....
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Re wicked media - No problem with difficult questions for politicians but I think we do have an "unfair media". The air of optimism in Scotland , the spring in the step if you like, which has been noticible since the SNP came to power - even with the recession - is never reflected in the media. I don't feel 'my Scotland' is being fairly represented by the national broadcaster. The BBC's need 'to be seen to' equally reflect 'both sides' has got way out of proportion when increasing numbers are reacting positively to the Scottish Government's stewardship.They are still waiting for the 'honeymoon' to end! I had the distinct feeling the media regarded the excellent showing of the SNP in the European Elections as some kind of abherration, a protest vote. The treatment meted out to Kenny MacAskill over the Megrahi release was a scandal - think Gavin Estler - and the SNP conference coverage was really poor in comparison to the 'big 3' . If there's punditry you can be sure they will call on same old Labour faces - Lorraine Davidson who was press officer for Scottish Labour and Jack McConnell's biographer, Alf Young, one time researcher for the Labour Party and Brian Ashcroft, who happens to be married to Wendy Alexander. It doesn't even look fair. What little mention Scotland gets in the London-based political programmes is sloppy, lazy and lacking proper research - witness the treatment Alex Salmond got last week on the Daily Politics. The SNP has never had support from the print media. Struggling to cope with keeping their unionist masters happy on one hand and falling sales on the other, their problems might be reduced if they could only reflect what's happening in the country they are supposedly representing. But I can't get away from the feeling that the BBC, the main purveyor of information in Scotland, has not embraced the changes that are taking place; they are not comfortable with the present set-up and would 'much rather not' encourage the SNP in the hope they might go away.
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UK fails to make top 10 prosperous nations
Behind Norway and Ireland.
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Minimum pricing will not stop the jaikies and nearly jaikies rolling about the street in pools of their own excrement on Saturday night. The only way to stop them is to empty their pockets completely , if that doesn't stop them then lock them up until they learn how to behave.
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I couldn't help laughing at the story in the politics section where, Henry McLiesh talking about Labour in denial says:
"Scottish Labour's combination of a culture of denial and a failure to understand the ethos of nationality and identity could prove disastrous and keep Labour out of power for a generation if left unchecked."
And how, do you think, does the Labour spokesman reply? That's right, with denial upon denial of exactly those things that Henry is speaking about:
"The SNP may be obsessed with a referendum nobody wants and a National Conversation no one is listening to, but it is the economy that counts."
We all ken fine that polls have always shown most Scots favour a referendum and, given the endless amount of news stories and speculation about independence that we ourselves are participating in right now, the National Conversation is an ongoing daily event.
You couldn't make it up, as they say. But I do think it presents yet moore evidence that Labour have lost touch with Scotland and have finally lost their grip over the Scottish political scene. A good thing.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/8326610.stm
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Has anyone posted a link to this? Excellent, excellent article by Iain MacWhirter:
Presumably, Scots should erase their history and culture and discourage ethnic Scots from coming here lest they turn it into a tartan ghetto....
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Left out the linkie. *blush*
http://www.heraldscotland.com/comment/iain-macwhirter/why-snp-believes-we-are-the-people-wherever-we-re-from-1.928428?localLinksEnabled=false
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25. JRMacClure
This one.
Why SNP believes we are the people … wherever we’re from
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On the BBC Scottish News, It's just been reported that Jim Murphy is speaking out in support of Ranges FC after the recent concerns following their financial situation and status with the Lloyds Banking Group.
Labour are certainly putting the Red into the red, white and blue... Their new Orange friends must be very happy!
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#24. Actually that is the next thing to advice to vote SNP. Now with Henry McLiesh's reputation maybe you don't want him saying, vote SNP. But he certainly makes it plain that the SNP is a party to be taken seriously. Now you wouldn't think people would still need to hear that about the party that forms the government of Scotland but in my opinion they do! They very much do!
I think that is one of the most pro-SNP articles I've seen in a while in many ways when he talks about the growth of the SNP in the last decade.
That very article might sway people who were debating whether to switch from Labour to SNP into switching.
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I suspect that Carlisle's and Berwick's carry-outs would be the main beneficiaries of minimum pricing regimes and perhaps mail-order trades too.
I foresee people with vans doing a roaring trade with home deliveries sourced from the South. Is this what is wanted?
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#25 JRMacClure
"Has anyone posted a link to this? Excellent, excellent article by Iain MacWhirter"
Well, now you have - thanks.
His blog is also worth following, especially the latest: Forget the BNP - the financial fascists are in the City of London.
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19. At 5:18pm on 26 Oct 2009, raisethegame wrote:
#15 Chiefy1724
Oddly enough, I was speaking with a guy a few days ago who took the view that Scotland's drink problems were no different from those suffered by other indigenous peoples who had been badly treated or displaced in their own countries.....
Why don't you simply blame the evil union for everything, and state that once we have independence all troubles will vanish? Have there been another round of clearances lately? Are we being suppressed?
Scotland - like England - has a drinks culture, as does Eire. Switzerland has drink problems. Stop trying to apportion blame and try and work the problem. The Scottish Government are trying something. I doubt very much it will work, since many heavy drinkers I know earn above average salaries. However it should be given a chance at least.
To stop the anti-social side of alcohol we need harsh and humiliating punishments. Get them out sweeping the streets. Our own Justice Secretary once fell foul of drink, so he is better placed than most to understand the issues.
If the same effort to curb smoking was applied to alcohol we would not have these problems. How many people do you know smoke ten cigarettes then go out punch someone or fall over or crash their car?
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Online Ed Here
First, apologies for my frequent spelling mistakes - it's the drink you see, minimum pricing will solve that.
Only kidding, I'm too busy to be bothered spellchecking and like most here I tend to comment on the hoof and type straight into the comment field.
This made me smile:
Then the wicked media pile in - and demand "straight answers to straight questions"
Who does Brian think reads these blogs and contributes to them? We know that Labour are rarely if ever asked difficult questions. Even Scotland's chief medical officer was given a harder time from Glenn Campbell on Sundays Politics Show than John McFall was given last week.
The medical officer was the latest to be confronted with a newspaper headline, the Scotland on Sunday. This was the same paper that carried the revelation about the Orange Order campaigning for Labour when McFall appeared, however Campbell 'forgot' to mention that particular headline.
So Brian, [remember Chisholm] please save this nonsense for your TV appearances, some viewers might actually believe it.
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#32. Brownedov
Oh, that is a GREAT blog. Thanks for the link. Like Mr. MacWhirter, I keep wondering where the indignation is! These people have raped our economy and stolen our futures and our children's and possibly their children's and we sit quiescent.
But someday people will wake up. Of that, I'm convinced.
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#33 Neil_Small147
Typically, you haven't actually read what I said and just jumped in again on an anti-nat rant.
Scotland's "drinks culture" isn't a new thing. But it "gets worse" in times of strife and trouble and dare I even use the D-word.
So what do we work on ? The cause or the symptoms ?
We don't need "harsh and humiliating punishments". We need the laws as they stand enforced. We need the offies to stop selling to kids. We need to treat anyone who buys for kids in the same way as we treat somebody selling them dope. We need anyone under the age of 18 caught with drink in a public place frightened to death by dragging them into any A&E on a Friday and Saturday night and making them help the poor bloody nurses and doctors clean up the vomit and the piss. That's not "harsh and humiliating" BTW, that's "Truth and Consequences".
We need the old alkies and the teenagers banged up in YOIs for being violent when "off their faces" dragged in front of the young kids and saying - This isn't smart, it isn't clever. We need the teenage mums who got pregnant when smashed put in front of them. We need the "victims" to say - Booze will ruin your life if you abuse it.
Like it or not, Alcohol and Tobacco are legal drugs. The Exchequer takes a lot of cash from them. They are here to stay. Not going away.
Very few of us on this forum will be abstainers. A Few of us may think even that we are "moderate" drinkers until we sit down and tot up the units. Some may admit to being heavy drinkers of even abusers of alcohol or maybe even the A-word.
Hands up here anyone who hasn't done anything really ****ing stupid ?
Hands up here anyone who hasn't done anything really ****ing stupid WITH A DRINK IN THEM ?
The Party is 100% wrong on this one IMHO. Minimum pricing will not work.
Full marks to the Government for acknowledging the problem and opening the debate and actually wanting to do something about it as opposed to Ineffectual Northern British NuLab and CMD and IDS's "tough love".
This isn't a problem of Nationalism or Unionism or Communism or Fascism or any other sort of -ism that you want to toss up.
I ask again - A Straight Question - If we had happy, contented, contributing citizens in a fair and free country of social democratic justice, would drink and drugs be a problem ?
Will we get that society under NuLab or Old Tories ?
Will all of our social ills disappear when the flag is raised Come The Glorious Day ? Of course not.
But the chance to chart our own path may just give us a chance to try and remedy the cause and not only to deal with the symptoms.
Aargh ! I need a drink after that....
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#24 GloaminInTheRoman &
#30 JRMacClure
At first I was surprised that the BBC article didn't link directly to Holyrood Magazine's Thinking the unthinkable. Now that I've read it, I can see why they give just a few selective quotes for NuLab's attack dogs to chew at. A surprisingly good article from a former NuLab apparatchik, but I suppose he may never have been entirely happy with "the project".
IMO, the dynamite is: "If all of this wasn’t bad enough, there is also a particularly Scottish dimension which will simply not go away; the need for Labour to embrace the politics of identity, diversity and nationality and evolve an intelligible and working alternative to independence which has to be some form of federalism."
Not quite on the NuLab hymnsheet, I think. Wonder what the noble Baron Martin of Springburn's heir apparent makes of it in Glasgow NE?
The BBC headline should have been:
Labour's former FM proposes federalism to thwart independence!
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Two other articles from Holyrood Magazine well worth a look are Jim Sillars' Independent stand on post general election strategies and Prof. Curtice's Political gymnastics on the L-D's dilemma, the latter significantly more objective than his usual BBC Scotland performances.
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#33 Neil_Small147 Are we being suppressed?...
Want someone to answer that? I suspect not. It doesn't take clearances to make suppression.
It takes newspapers and the BBC that regularly denigrate Scots. It takes academics who say that even teaching Scottish history is morally reprehensible. It takes supposed "devolution" that didn't give the Scottish government the power to properly run the nation (try to find a US State or Canadian Province that doesn't have the power to borrow! A state has more power than the government of the Scottish nation!) It takes the creation of a victim culture which only power being given to Scots to run their own affairs will cure.
*ahen* I just asked a question over on another forum. I would be interested in a response--very much so. :-)
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@24 http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/8326610.stm
That link bears posting again, because a better example of the "denial" Henry McLeish speaks of would be hard to find. It's absolutely mindboggling that a Labour representative can talk of "a referendum that nobody wants" when EVERY SINGLE POLL ever conducted on the subject shows a MINIMUM of a 2:1 majority in favour of having one.
What goes on in their minds? Do they think the people of Scotland are so stupid as to swallow some idiot telling them is black and white, telling them they don't want something they have absolutely consistently and convincingly said they DO want? Can any of the Labour voters still not too ashamed to show their heads explain it to us?
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37. Chiefy1724
"I ask again - A Straight Question - If we had happy, contented, contributing citizens in a fair and free country of social democratic justice, would drink and drugs be a problem ?"
I can agree with most of all of your above sentiments to this one but this part isn't a cure all. Look at Norway they have a greater GDP and a disaportional expensive higher cost of alchohol which curbs their consumption yet they still have binge weekends without the social cost. Living in these latitudes with longer winter darkness hours is a catalyst to why people turn to a stimulant to relieve what we can't control because of 'boredom'. Provide affordable self involved entertainment to fill those hours will alleviate the need to get stoned out of ones mind, call it a 'self fulfilled good feel factor' where one doesn't need a fictional feel good pick me up, slainthe.
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PS to my #38
Whenever mentioning McLeish, we should never forget that, unlike NuLab's current politburo, he distinguished himself with his "Freeing Lockerbie bomber Megrahi was the right decision", well reported in the Indy here.
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37. At 7:30pm on 26 Oct 2009, Chiefy1724:
An independent Scotland is not going to cure the problem of drink. That will take decades, if ever.
I rarely drink, and then a bottle of cider or lager. And yes I've made a fool of myself when younger, in particular throwing up all over an Intercity 125 buffet car.
I have no objection to people drinking at all. it's when they get all anti social about it. And "status" means nothing when it comes to alcohol. I know someone earning 50k getting jailed for 2 years for gbh while drunk. I know a company director who has 3 drink driving convictions.
Anti-social behaviour requires appropriate punishment. Smoke a cigarette in the wrong place in Glasgow and you have the pretendy Police jumping on you.
Alcohol causes more problems than tobacco and drugs combined.
I've already said I support the effort by the SNP to address the problem. But they are not going to solve it and neither is an independent Scotland. Social attitudes are what will change the problem, and that is very difficult to achieve.
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39. At 8:00pm on 26 Oct 2009, Brownedov wrote:
Do I detect the merest hint of a leadership challenge if things don't go as planned?
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#41 Rev_S_Campbell
"Can any of the Labour voters still not too ashamed to show their heads explain it to us?"
I doubt it. Clearly McLeish is no longer seeking office and so has much the same flexibility to criticise as Tony Benn now has.
What I frankly do not understand is why NuLab MSPs and MPs seem determined to go down with Duff Gordon's sinking ship, when at least the MSPs might be able to fashion some sort of lifeboat by showing just a little spine and, er, common sense. What possible sanction does Duff Gordon now have over Mr Gray, for example?
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Online Ed Here
Oh well, comment 35 referred or most probably didn't get past the mods.
I'll paraphrase though.
Jim Murphy is little more than an errand boy who passes notes from his bosses in London to the Scottish media who duly headline whatever the note says.
Brian and his chums at the BBC in Scotland have yet to ask 'honest' Jim one hard question.
I have challenged Brian to provide evidence of one tough questions asked of Murphy by anyone at BBC Scotland.
Here are two that haven't been asked:
1. What was in 'honest' Jim's letter he received from Sir Thomas Legg.
2. Some MP's were being investigated by HMRC for alleged non payment of tax relating to expenses claimed for private accountants. Murphy claimed almost £2000 for such expenses - is he one of the MP's?
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#45 Neil_Small147
"Do I detect the merest hint of a leadership challenge if things don't go as planned?"
Your guess is as good as mine. Let's see what the SNP members here think, but I do rather suspect that the scenarios Sillars paints are quite likely.
In any event it can do no good for Scotland to send more NuLab troughers to Westmidden at the general election and even in Dean's dreams there are unlikely to be more than a handful of Scottish Tory MPs. Sending SNP MPs to protect Scotland's interests whilst awaiting the referendum doesn't exactly roll off the tongue, so I suppose the SNP "party line" probably makes more sense without being entirely candid.
Of course, if the SNP should "happen" to reach the magic 30 they would be in an unassailable position to hold the referendum.
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47. At 9:07pm on 26 Oct 2009, U14094468:
A lot of people don't even know who Murphy is, let alone what he is....
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#46 Brownedov
Many of them are on the gravy train, we know that. When Brown falls what will happen is that they will fragment in to 3 groups in Scotland.
1) International Socialists (if there are any left, probably only at the grass roots) - they will wander like a lost tribe through 50 years of tory rule if they need to, waiting and fighting (each other mostly).
2) Crypto-Nationalists (who will come out when they stop sulking about the SNP having nicked their ball - well they weren't using it).
3) The Hogs - who will follow whoever fills their trough. Tough call on those, but Westminster will find some way to bribe them although Eck probably has some bones for 1 or 2 of them.
Of course what their core voters think is another question. Most of them actually believe Labour is a pro-Scottish party so they are gonna get a big wake-up call.
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#16 cynicalHighlander
Brilliant - but a video for everyone. This should be passed to everyone you know, especially young people.
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40. JRMacClure
I've made a suggestion - in that other place.
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49. Neil_Small147
"A lot of people don't even know who Murphy is, let alone what he is...."
Alien!
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53. cynicalHighlander
""A lot of people don't even know who Murphy is, let alone what he is...."
Alien!"
I wondered why Murphy and Redwood looked so similar!!!!
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It's only Monday and already Jim's dealt with the HBOS/Rangers problem. He's off this week to Rome to finalise a deal to bring the Pope to Scotland. According to the Sunday Mail "An insider said: "Jim has been given a lot of responsibility for liaising with the Vatican, not just in terms of the possibility of the Pope coming to Scotland. He's also taking a lead in terms of smoothing things over for the whole of the Pope's tour."
Good to see him keeping busy.
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Minimum pricing on alchohol.
On health:
NICE is for it.
The BMA is for it.
The President of the Royal College of Physicians is for it.
Scotland's Chief Medical Officer is for it.
Their opinions are held as professionals with a view to public health and backed by whatever the current literature on the subject supports.
On retail:
It is a blanket measure, all retailers will be equally affected. If they want to run loss leaders to drive trade they'll have to use less socially damaging prodocts to do so. Of course, people tend not be dependent on most of what supermarkets sell, but I guess that was the point, eh?
As a part of government policy to tackle alchohol abuse, how can it be rejected?
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Online Ed Here
In the absence if anything in the media about the forthcoming by-election I took a quick peek at Willie Bain's campaign site - god, it's like a step back in time, no wonder the Unionist media are ignoring it for to broadcast what Bain is saying would likely damage Labour nationally.
Click here to read the quite moronic statements from Bain, Cathie Jamieson is at it as well.
This is Labour in Scotland in 2009.
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#55. My my. I'm impressed. It seems the wee sleekit is nearly as good at saving the world as his leader.
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#50 govanite
"When Brown falls what will happen is that they will fragment in to 3 groups in Scotland."
Yes, I can see something along those lines happening amongst the MSPs between the UK general election and the 2011 Scottish one, but by then surely it will be too late.
"Of course what their core voters think is another question. Most of them actually believe Labour is a pro-Scottish party so they are gonna get a big wake-up call."
I'm not so sure that they'll realise so long as the media remains staunchly pro-union. Of course, should Sillars prove right and they end up forming a pan-unionist coalition at Westmidden, they could throw out Salmond and do the same in Holyrood. Now that might just wake up the core vote.
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#56. Might I suggest that people who want to reject it should come up with alternatives for reducing the problem rather than just criticizing the SNP's attempt. They may be going about it ineffectively. That's certainly possible. So other possibilities to at least riduce this serious problem?
We have it too. Many states have fairly draconian laws about selling liquor and what happens if it is sold illegally. I *think* we may have somewhat less of a problem with binge drinking than you do, but I couldn't prove that. It is perceived as a problem over here, but not a massive one.
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54. oldnat
"I wondered why Murphy and Redwood looked so similar!!!!"
Similar yes at least Redwood talks some sense some of the time not often but Murphy talks trosh 100% of the time.
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@46 Brownedov asked "What possible sanction does Duff Gordon now have over Mr Gray, for example?"
He has no need to have a sanction over Gray Brownedov because Gray has no power. It would be like the CEO worrying about the janitor plotting against him. As far as Brown is concerned , Gray is nobody.
The North British Labour Group can't fashion some kind of lifeboat because that would require some kind of independent thought. That is just anathema to who they are which is footsoldiers for their masters in London.
I think govanite @50 has them sussed although I'm intrigued to know who the Crypto Nationalists are. If there are any they're using a darned good code :O)
P.S anyone feeling the credit crunch at Halloween should know that dangly plastic Murphy's are three to a bag in Poundland.
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60. JRMacClure
"Might I suggest that people who want to reject it should come up with alternatives for reducing the problem rather than just criticizing the SNP's attempt. They may be going about it ineffectively. That's certainly possible. So other possibilities to at least riduce this serious problem?"
Glad to hear that sentiment, everyone keeps talking it up as a serious issue, but those who are against minimum pricing add no new suggestions - just whatever we're doing already.
The real underlying issue is a social one - but noone is even close to figuring out how to actually tackle the social issues underlying the alchohol problems we have. While that remains true, we surely keep tackling it as best we can.
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59Brownedov
Hypothesis or Hypothetical!
May 2010 the GE returns a hung parliament, Brown retires for health reasons, Blair is the President of Europe, Cameron holds talks with Miliband and both agree to form the next government. Ken Clarke is over the moon because part of the deal was to accept the full EU treaty, single currency and all, Salmond also accepts the deal, which gives Scotland a federal collective full fiscal role. The left are left devastated and some trade unions breakaway from their labour affiliation.
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Hmm...
I would suggest that we stop the state from creating a solution to our drinking problems. I would then ensure that the state and state instituations do not pay for our problems and perhaps once we are personally having to pay for our drinking problems through health care or larger police fines to help pay the costs of policing you, maybe, just maybe we will change our ways.
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61. At 10:27pm on 26 Oct 2009, cynicalHighlander wrote:
54. oldnat
"I wondered why Murphy and Redwood looked so similar!!!!"
Similar yes at least Redwood talks some sense some of the time not often but Murphy talks trosh 100% of the time.
Reminds me of some sci fi films and shows; use your imagination for comparisons.......
Star Trek - Klingon
Starship Troopers - Brain Bug
Predator - mmm, perhaps not
Alien - multiplies in an unwilling host and bursts onto the scene
Robocop - ripped to pieces but returns to remove the cancer of crime (and his name is Murphy!!)
Independence Day - the aliens try to kill off the planet but fail
I could go on but I have work tomorrow.......
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Ah! If only the Scottish sub sample had any meaning (which on a weighted sample of 65, they don’t). Electoral Calculus would give
SNP 38 : Lab 8 : Con 6 : LD 6 on tonight's Com-Res sample. :-)
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#62 GrassyKnollington
"He has no need to have a sanction over Gray Brownedov because Gray has no power."
I'd agree that Gray has little power, but not quite zero - let's say something approaching 1/∞ - as demonstrated by Bendy Wendy's "Bring it on!" and the denial it provoked from Duff Gordon. Whether he could get NuLab MSPs to obey a whipped vote in opposition to London high command is of course another matter.
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Further more plans are already to go for the invasion of Iran, NATO troops will also go into Pakistan and especially the northern border areas, Afghanistan will become a total war area, Russia will support the action in Afghanistan, while quietly accepting the invasion of Iran, for a bumper deal to supply more of their resources to Europe.
Could it be possible Brownedov.
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#67. Haha! Meaningless but it would certainly make Alex Salmond's year. (And a number of other people's) ;-)
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sorry to depress you but according to the statistics,there were 42,430 drink related admissions 2007/08 in Scotland . 30,092 of those were for mental/behavioural admissions so you are talking detox before you even begin rehab,not just an overnight stay to sober up.At the same time (according to the same info), "the fall in the relative price of alcohol is now 70% CHEAPER than in 1980.So there is an arguement for minimum pricing but we need to stop being so hypocritical about it.When there is a big game on or the sun shines or at Xmas time you can hardly get in the doors of the big supermarkets for falling over the drink.You don't even have to got to the shops they'll deliver it to your door. There are a couple of things that would help but nobody would vote for it.
1.STOP MEDICALISING SOCIAL PROBLEMS.
2.As in other countries, off licences should sell drink only NOT any old shop (I did say no one would vote for it )
3.Seriously enforce the law and take away the licences of shops for 3/4/5/6/ months caught selling it to under agers ot the big wan who then sells it on
4.If admitted under the age of 25 because of drink you should have to speak to a councillor/professional before you are discharged ( instead of slinking away ) to try to get a bit of education or in some cases follow up help, Lastly sorry thomas porter while I think your idea has merit unfortunately the system as we know to a certain extent has been complicit to some, the cradle to the grave, sadly cognitve impairment means some people are not even aware who is looking after them far less who is paying for it.
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Now how realistic the unionist parties working with the SNP in Westminster is, I don't know. The Tories have in Holyrood though so maybe it's not an impossibility as certain articles have said. Anyway on the subject of a hung parliament (no puns intended) I found this interesting:
Ukip threat to David Cameron's election majority
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/oct/25/ukip-cameron-election-threat
I saw over on UK Polling Report, Anthony Wells was skeptical about their numbers, but if the UKIP cut into the Tory numbers it would certainly make that hung parliament a lot more likely even if they didn't cost the Tories as many as 50. It could be a factor to keep an eye on in the coming GE even if the Guardian is exaggerating.
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First. The Devil Drink. I don’t think that raising prices will have much effect on binge drinking. I used to travel frequently to a Scandinavian country when the anti drink laws there were perhaps at their most onerous and exorbitantly expensive to boot and many times I saw examples of overindulgence. Granted it wasn’t out on the street but it was there, hidden away in polite society and practiced by many. The most extreme example, when I was offered a drink of mentholated spirits from the bottle with an orange juice chaser from the carton. And just in case your thinking…? No I didn’t.
The cultural change, to at least partially ameliorate the problem, will not be easily brought about and will require some guts from politicians to engage in social engineering and from parents to demonstrate socially acceptable boundaries to their offspring. Of the two obligements above the second is the more important. Politicians can only set the scene. But when families go out together, and socialise together, and go home together we might see a lessening of objectionable behaviour.
For readers whose memory is not as long as mine; when the breathalyser superseded walking a straight line as a test for alcoholic intake we wailed and moaned that you could no longer pull in at the pub for a few drams with your mates on the way home from work. Now drink driving is abhorrent to most people and this once acceptable; indeed normal behaviour is frowned upon by society at large. (Yes, tautology: but before someone picks me up on it but my excuse is reinforcing the point) The lesson is; change can take place but it takes time.
Second. The Henry Mcleish story read like a joke. First something plausible then the punch line: the twist. More denial! Only it wasn’t a joke. If you advertised for people to come out with daft pronouncements you couldn’t find any to match the present sub-sect of Labour in Scotland. Henry Mcleish was right; - lost for a generation, and I doubt that the support of the Orange Lodge will be of much help to them when it comes to the next election. ‘More to be pitied than scorned’ as my old maths teacher would have said.
Slainte mhath. A dram before I go to bed.
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Appears that the SNP have exposed another unionist sell-out of Scotland:
SNP insists on huge military cash boost.
According to SNP calculations, based on the formula used by the Treasury, Scotland should have received an extra £4.3 billion of MoD investment and 5,240 extra armed service jobs between 2002 and 2007. [my emphisis]
Under the formula, which routinely awards Scotland 8.5% of public spending, the SNP claims Scotland should have secured investment worth £12.6 billion over that period but only received £8.3 billion - 34% less.
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73. oldteuchter
From one "old" to another.
A critical aspect of the social change is that many of us remember drinking and driving in the 60s/70s and cringe at the memory. Alcohol was also much more expensive in real terms then too.
I tend to agree with many comments here. Raising the minimum cost of a unit of alcohol won't solve the problem, but it seems likely that reducing the real term cost over recent years has exacerbated it.
Real change will happen when it is no longer acceptable to abuse any drug on a regular basis. I have no idea what will achieve this, but at least the Scottish Government is trying, and is open to suggestions of other measures to attain that end.
Opposition parties need to do better for the people than simply to oppose without offering additional/alternative proposals.
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The MPs expenses scandal is hotting up.
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23760662-tony-mcnulty-faces-expenses-bill-over-pound-60000-claim.do
Mind you since Jacqui Smith only had to apologise, no doubt the MPs will only suggest that he has to do the same.
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#76 oldnat
I also noticed this in one London rag:
Call for probe into Labour's 'partisan' immigration plan.
Critics of Labour's more relaxed immigration policy seized on his comments and called for a proper investigation.
Former Labour minister Frank Field said: "I am speechless at the idea that people thought they could socially engineer a nation on this basis."
It does not really matter whether its true or false this has been widely reported across the MSM and as NuLabour are well aware ‘dirt sticks to a blanket’. After all they are the masters of spin and smear.
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To all who remember the Scottish CBI’s denouncement of the SNP Governments budget in the last blog. Here is the Britnat version.
Unison hits out at CBI’s public service agenda.
Unison has hit out at business leaders who have controversially called on the government to make public sector cuts of an extra £120 billion in a bid to “balance the books”.
Nothing new there then!
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http://www.timesonline.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00350/paisley_amd_brown_3_350308a.jpg
Labour's Glasgow North East campaign team - now the Lodge is on board!
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First, welcome back JR. Glad to see that you are a woman not willing to be bullied.
Second, Brian, you're having a laugh. When have BBC Scotland ever asked straight questions of the Labour party in Scotland? You are obviously not pandering to your loyal posters but to the unknowns that lurk in the background.
Three, talking of loyalty, how are the Orange Order going to function if the Church of England rejoin the 'mother' church in Rome? Already part of the CofE is seriously thinking of doing so. If the rest follows, which is a distinct possibility in the future, the royal family will have to ditch their dislike of marrying Catholics. Maybe this is why Murphy is smoothing the way for the Pope. ;-) I hope the Orange Order are taking note of this. Still no word from Derek on his thoughts about the Orange Order.
Talking of Derek, what's wrong with you? You are putting down some interesting scenarios. Is this a change until the next reincarnation?
I missed Brian's radio show but I hope to have time to check it out today.
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#77 Rollon 2010
This fits in rather nicely with Brian's theme - why is this just now being reported since it was first raised on the 23rd of Oct? Why no headline news on the BBC? After all, Nick Griffin and just been on question time, people were puzzled and outraged that 1 million fellow citizens have dallied with the BNP............and then this. Suddenly light begins to dawn.
All to keep downward pressure on wages, while fat cat's stuff their greedy faces, and people are driven to dispair through the applied science of deliberate poverty.
Well done labour, you utterly useless objects
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Looks like Labour are struggling in Wales. Interestingly the Tories seem to be the ones to benefit rather than Plaid Cymru. There may yet be a safe seat for dean down in the Valleys...
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82. forfar-loon
"There may yet be a safe seat for dean down in the Valleys..."
Not seen deanthetory post for a while - maybe he got his backside skelped by the student's union and still can't bear a seat in front of a computer - let alone a seat in a constituency ;)
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Here's another interesting story from today, debunking the latest unionist attempt to undermine the credibility of independence for Scotland.
Some of you may recall the Scottish media's misrepresentation of recent comments by Bertie Ahern regarding Scottish independence. They tried ot make out he was rubbishing the idea, which was nonsense, of course, along thew lines of your standard Jim Murphy "arc of insolvency" propaganda trip.
Ahern puts the record straight, saying among other things:
"“I am disappointed that some newspapers have tried to portray that as me in any way opposing full Scottish independence."
Not only do our Scottish media sully our own nation with their misrepresentaiton of the political realities both present and open to us, but they constantly bring so much embarrassment on us and cringe-worthy bad press on us on an internaitonal level.
The Scottish media are doing a better job of doing Scotland down than anyone. But that of course is the way that unionists think and operate.
You'll no doubt recall Jim Murphy's masterful(sic) misrepresentaiton of Norwegian ambassador in Scotland who was also forced to write to newspapers to negate Jim Murphy's claims.
This episode with Bertie Ahern is another example of how the unionist bloc deliberately misrepresent the views of people from other countries in order to use it as anti-independence propaganda. And in the process they make fools of us all. We have reached a point where the unionists are prepared to stoop to any level to prevent the demise of their arguments which, in themselves, are completely without foundation. They must rely on faking their arguments because the arguments in themselves have no substance.
Anwyay, you can see the article I refer to in today's Herald in the politics section.
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David Miliband has said that Britain should support Blair for president of the EU, but his request is directed only at the political parties because the people of the UK have no say as to whether we want him in that position. Surely one way of demonstrating democratically what the UK wants is to have some polling of the British population to obtain their views. Those in Europe who have the power to put Blair in place, or not, would surely question his suitability for the job if the UK population were unable to support one of their own.
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Online Ed Here
Anyone wondering what was in my referred comment57 that caused it's referal.
Well, I had decided to provide a link to Willie Bain's campaign website.
Why you might ask?
I believe Bain's campaign is so dreadfull that it should be highlighted, it is moronic in the extreme - it panders to and indeed is feeding ignorance. I also believe that the language and misrepresentation could cause Labour damage in Scotland if highlighted.
This appears to be the by-election campaign that the media are reluctant to cover.
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# 84 GloaminInTheRoman
Agreed. Here is the story that you were talking about.
Ahern and Scotland
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# 86 U14094468
Can you supply just the link?
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Re 84 Gloamingintheroman
Excellent article, for others the link is:
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/politics/ahern-scotland-on-its-own-would-do-very-well-1.928838
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#86 U14094468/Online Ed
"Well, I had decided to provide a link to Willie Bain's campaign website."
I find it hard to believe that the mods regard a link to http://www.williebain.com/ as outwith the House Rules in terms of being broken. Perhaps they dislike it as being "unsuitable for our audience". Many may find it Offensive politically under the "Text & images likely to offend most people" but that's a long shot, and I suspect it scrapes by under the unlawful and safety provisions.
Accordingly I'm drawn to the conclusion that the website of the snout hoping to replace the noble Baron Martin of Springburn's in the Westmidden trough "Lacks value".
He's certainly been noticeably silent on what Brian describes above as the "current controversy over alcohol", and would be challenged on his position by any impartial media.
OTOH, his latest, laughable "Rip-Off Roadshow" merely demonstrates the paucity of his arguments and his apparent confusion over the job content of MPs. That should surely "add value" to any voter trying to make up his or her mind after the candidate list closes tomorrow.
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Further to Jim Murphy’s comments on Ahern, take it one step further to his remarks on the “arc of insolvency”: it is interesting to note in the 2009 international prosperity analysis kindly linked by Cynical Highlander from yesterday’s Telegraph that the first five places are take by Finland, Switzerland, Sweden, Denmark, and Norway. Ireland is 11th ahead of the UK at 12th. That is five countries in the “Arc of insolvency” are more prosperous than the UK.
What does that say about Jim’s view of the UK’s prospects? What does he know about the suggestions from heavy weight economists that post the General Election, public servants (teachers, police, fire brigade, health workers, even dare I say BBC moderators) will need to take a 10% pay cut and a five year pay freeze, just to deal with half the debt mountain!! And before anyone says that’s because of the bailout of the Scottish(s) banks it isn’t, as the chancellor has some prospect of making a profit on those “investments” in two to three years. It is because of the £175Billion QE that has been cushioning the UK for the last twelve months.
I was also appalled by the coverage of the EU referendum in Ireland by the BBC where the correspondent was repeatedly shown saying the result was because Ireland was bankrupt, which it isn’t.
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back to #47
And they haven't asked Jim why he took his £400 London subsistence allowance EVERY month "even" when he was in China and "even " when he was, by his own admittance, in Scotland most of the time.
Yet they never tire of asking AS about the tiddley two months he took.
They haven't asked Jim about "flipping" his house (because he is in Scotland most of the time) and the haven't asked Alisair Darling about him "flipping" his four times.
What is happening in my opinion is that the quite patently partial, infair and hostile attacks on the SNP which are never replicated by attacks on much more deserving targets among the unionists is now having the effect of most informed people no longer paying any attention to most of the media.
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Re Willie Bain's website, his use of English could do with a little work. As has been remarked on these threads before, his Personal contract with you is no such thing.
He could better describe it as a solemn covenant with the Glasgow NE electorate in the biblical sense of being promises made to humanity by God. That might endear him a little more to his new Orange friends.
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I am very surprised by the partisan nature of a lot of the comments posted on here. Is drink a problem for scots who live in Scotland or more generally a problem for a whole plethora of nationalities? I have not seen the figures.
Secondly, why are there so many comments about the media and the unionists. I do feel some of the comments posted on here and other blogs are bordering on being racist, in that Scotland should only be ruled by scots for scots, forsaking all others (or does this feeling only apply to the English, Welsh and Northern Irish?). Is this how some "nationalists" feel. Does this make them much better than more liberal BNP supporters?
Can I just say, lets try and be supportive of those trying to suggest ways of tackling the issues surrounding Drink, and not find ways to twist the issue.
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#90 Brownedov
Appears that Polling Report UK are carrying a new poll:
YouGov Welsh poll.
According to YouGov voting intention in Wales stands at CON 31%, LAB 34%, LDEM 12%, PC 15%. Since the general election this represents a 9 point rise for the Conservatives, a 9 point drop for Labour, a 6 point fall for the Lib Dems and a 2 point rise for Plaid Cymru – the equivalent of a 9 point swing from Labour to the Conservatives, and roughly the same sort of figures we’ve been seeing in GB polls, so Wales seems to be following the national trend.
The poll has not yet been published on their, YouGov, site yet.
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Re 94 FishmanUK50
I am as anti-racist as you can get; IMHO the nationalists on here are generally very fair-minded.
And for an independent view of SNP policy I direct you to the link posted earlier by:
27. At 6:14pm on 26 Oct 2009, JRMacClure wrote:
Left out the linkie. *blush*
http://www.heraldscotland.com/comment/iain-macwhirter/why-snp-believes-we-are-the-people-wherever-we-re-from-1.928428?localLinksEnabled=false
As to the issue of staying on topic, the other comments talk to the bias of the media, this is one of the few ways people can try to redress the balance.
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#94
Yes.A very puzzling comment from FishmanUK50.
Sounds like the standard unionist attack on the SNP which owes nothing whatsover to the truth of the matter.
I'll be surprised if the author actually lives in Scotland because if he does he would be aware, as the rest of us are, that his comment is untrue.
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#95 Roll_On_2010
Thanks re the YouGov Welsh poll. It will be interesting to see the full PDF to examine what questions were asked.
For the moment, such little evidence as is available - mainly the euro actuals - certainly suggests that PC's decision to go into coalition with NuLab rather than the "rainbow" option hasn't worked out too well for them. Once bitten, twice shy I anticipate, but the fact that every other option bar NuLab is unproven in the eyes of anyone in Wales under 30 will I predict result in them continuing to have the majority of Welsh MPs after the general election despite near-universal hatred of the apostate Hain and his hapless boss.
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#94, Has either never been to Scotland, or is not a very intelligent unionist. (I hope it's the first!)
The Newspaper headlines on the May 2007 Scottish Elections...
[quote]Those waking up that day were greeted by the Sun's front page image of a looped rope, inside which read the threat:
"Vote SNP today, and you put Scotland's head in the noose."
The Daily Mail's front page warned: "This man wants to destroy Britain" beside Mr. Salmond's face.
While the Daily Record urged: "Do not sleepwalk into independence. Do not let a protest vote break up Britain. Think about it." [quote]
There was not one publication which even stayed neutral, never mind supported the SNP and fishmanuk50 wonders why we are banging on about the blatant media bias?
fishmanuk50, It is because we all know it is true!
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oops forgot to post the link...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/politics_show/6615879.stm
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Willie Bain’s election clarion call:
Stop Glasgow getting ripped off.
Crack down on crime.
Help Glasgow pensioners and families through tough times.
Better shops, better buses, better homes.
Perhaps someone in his campaign team should explain to their man the difference between devolved and reserved matters.
Apart from feathering his own nest what did Michael Martin achieve for this constituency in 30 years as their MP?
They created a wasteland and called it Labour’s fiefdom.
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#4 U14094468/Online Ed on the new thread
Having had my penn'orth on the new thread I'll not post again there unless I specifically need to.
Re "One casualty is Rhona Brankin and I thougt that Fiona Hyslop was the one under pressure", where did you find out?
Nothing seemingly on this website except the absence of the Labour front bench at-a-glance [Last Updated: Friday, 14 September 2007, 17:12 GMT 18:12 UK !!!!] from the main Scotland politics page.
The 2007 page shows Rhona Brankin as one of Bendy Wendy's minions.
NuLab's The Scottish Shadow Cabinet does now consign both those fragrant ladies to the status of unperson.
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North Britain Labour Group reshuffle????
This must surely be a hoax. Just had a look at the link provided in 102 and Richard Baker is Shadow Secretary for Justice.
A very impressive spoof site but no one would seriously fall for it. With all the talent that the Gray man has at his disposal do you honestly think Baker would be given such a responsible portfolio?
You must try harder Brownedov!
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Interesting post over on Political Betting (hat tip London Statto)
RULE 56 (1) OF THE PARLIAMENTARY ELECTION RULES
[No debate]
Secretary Jim Murphy
That, in accordance with rule 56 (1) of the Parliamentary Election Rules contained in Schedule 1 to the Representation of the People Act 1983, the sealed packets containing the completed corresponding number lists forwarded to the sheriff clerk at Kirkcaldy following the Glenrothes by-election on 6 November 2008 (1) shall not be destroyed by the sheriff clerk other than as provided for in the protocol agreed among the Secretary of State for Scotland, the electoral registration officer for Fife, the returning officer for the Glenrothes parliamentary constituency and the sheriff clerk for the Kirkcaldy sheriff court district and dated 16 and 19 October 2009 (Cm 7729); (2) may be delivered by that sheriff clerk to that returning officer; and (3) may be opened by that returning officer in order that a substitute marked copy of the register of electors may be made available for public inspection, all in accordance with and subject to the conditions specified in that protocol.
To be decided without debate (Standing Order No. 118(6) and Order of 20 October).
Now I don't really understand this, but does it mean that a duplicate register is being constructed from the individual numbers recorded when you get your ballot paper?
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#103 BlooToon
"This must surely be a hoax ... A very impressive spoof site but no one would seriously fall for it."
ROFL ... but ...
"With all the talent that the Gray man has at his disposal do you honestly think Baker would be given such a responsible portfolio?"
Wilde on Little Nell springs to mind, but a smidgeon of sympathy for Mr Gray is surely in order.
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#97 & #99,
To you both, I do live in Scotland, the North East in fact. I say what I see. I am proud to be British and have no problems with cosmopolitania. It is a shame that others do not feel the same way. I would like to see governments being pro-active and getting jobs done, not live in a world of blame culture, which both the Scottish and UK governments are guilty of. Yes get a handle on the binge culture, but do it in a way that gets greatest support to push legislation through.
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I'm Brian Taylor, BBC Scotland's political editor, and I'll be blogging here regularly on Scottish politics.
Oh, REALLY?
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Mods have started the clearances on new blog.
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#94 I do feel some of the comments posted on here and other blogs are bordering on being racist, in that Scotland should only be ruled by scots for scots...
Absolutely. Sclotland SHOULD be ruled BY Scots FOR Scots. Just as the US is ruled BY Americans FOR Americans. Just as Canada is ruled BY Canadians FOR Candadians.
That is what a NATION is about.
Now if the gentleman (?) assumes that involves racism, that is HIS racism, not Scotland's. SCOTS includes Scots of all kinds of hues of color and ancestry--yes, including English and Welsh ancestry if they choose to be Scots now.
But that may be too democratic a concept for him to absorb.
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#104 oldnat
"does it mean that a duplicate register is being constructed from the individual numbers recorded when you get your ballot paper?"
Your guess is as good as mine, but that's certainly what it sounds like.
The text you quote certainly is posted on today's HoC Order of Business as #4 in Main Business to start no later than 10:00pm GMT. Might be worth a look on BBC Parliament if onshore or parliamentlive.tv if expat, to see if any points of order are raised or if it's just nodded through.
Nothing easily identifiable as related on the Scotland Office website.
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Somebody obviously wants to suppress the purpose of these threads and has referred every comment except #1 to the mods, including a number which were most definitely on-topic.
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Scots 'feeling safer from crime'
Not a bad headline but the comment by the Labour guy Richard Baker said the survey showed the Scottish government was soft on crime. He said: "Kenny MacAskill is failing to persuade the law-abiding, hard-working majority that he knows how to tackle crime.
Quite a mystery how one can draw THAT from "Scots feeling safer", but surely the Labour guy wouldn't lie. =)
Went on about that some. Now how do people feel safer if Kenny MacAskill is failing? Hmmmm?
And if Scottish crime rates are falling which apparently the are.
Recent figures showed recorded crime in Scotland had fallen to its lowest level in almost 30 years.
Sounds like if that's failure, Mr. MacAskill would be well served to keep up with the failure! Failure now means reducing crime. =)
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#106. So your pride is in being British rather than in that nation in which you live--Scotland.
It isn't everyone. And you can't force it on everyone. There was a time, past, when it was forced but no longer. And you see the results.
Funny though how cosmopolitania doesn't keep you from pride in being British. According to YOU, only being Scottish is something to be ashamed of.
You might want to give that some thought. WHY is that?
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Just been away on holiday (rock climbing in Morocco in case anyone is interested). So not managed to comment, but did get a chance to catch the Doha debate on the BBC world service. the debate was on the motion: "this house deplores the release of the Lockerbie bomber". It was held in the city of Doha (in Quatar?).
After a robust debate, which seemed to centre around whether or not you like Gadaffi, the motion was carried with a Majority of 53 to 47.
A few comments:
1. The loudest applause of the debate went to Dr Jim Swire, who said (after being asked why he did not want to send Megrahi back in a box since that was how he received his daughter) that he would hope that even if he believed that Megrahi was guilty then he would have the strength of character to show cmpassion (I am paraphrasing).
2. There seems to be a firm belief that the release was a deal stitched up by the British government
3. Some conservative MP was trying to say that there should have been a debate in the UK parliment before the release (this is wrong on so many fronts).
4. there was a shocking level of ignorance about the scottish political and legal scene amongst the so called experts (no idea what the audience thought).
5 The aforementioned MP was also saying that Megrahi should have been kept in Jail because Libya had not handed over the killer of PC yvonne fletcher.
6. Why was their no informed Scottish expert? (for example the conservative MP was allowed to get away with quoting Ming campbell as saying that the main criteri for campassionate release is the severity of the crime! noone was there to challenge this).
7. given all the above, the result was actually quite close
John
ps. sorry to rake over old coals
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#106. Sir, your horror at the concept of SCOTS ruling SCOTLAND reminded me of a speech known by all Americans. It's called the Gettysburg Address given by President Abraham Lincoln at the dedication of the Gettysburg cemetary after that great battle where so many thousands died, in part to end slavery.
It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us -- that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion -- that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.
Now what you have not said is what horrible CRIME it is that the people of Scotland committed that they are forever forbidden to have a rule OF THE PEOPLE, BY THE PEOPLE AND FOR THE PEOPLE as do the people of the United States.
I'd like for you to name that terrible crime.
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#114 John__
"did get a chance to catch the Doha debate on the BBC world service"
I watched it on BBC World News on Saturday and just managed not to comment on it. It was indeed the shambles you describe and most certainly not Tim Sebastian's finest hour, although he did his best to expose and challenge Tory MP Daniel Kawczynski's curious view, which seems to have been that al-Megrahi should have been held hostage pending the handover of PC Yvonne Fletcher's killers.
As you say, in the circumstances, a 53% to 47% vote against the release was a triumph for liberalism.
BBC World doesn't own the copyright of the programme's so they don't seem to be available on any BBC website, but you can see the summary of what went on here.
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The details of the Welsh YouGov poll are now available.
http://www.yougov.co.uk/corporate/archives/press-archives-pol-intro.asp?submenuheader=1
The Welsh show, in an even more pronounced way, a pattern that's observable in Scotland. At a UK GE some Nationalists are willing to lend their vote to a UK party.
Polling geeks will find this interesting (that's probably just you and me Brownedov!)
Party, UK GE, Welsh Constituency
Con, 31%, 25%
Lab, 34%, 32%
LD, 12%, 12%
Plaid, 15%, 24%
Looking at the Plaid votes for Welsh Assembly constituencies, it's instructive that their UK GE voting intentions are
Con 16% : Lab 12% : LD 5% : Plaid 65%
The Brits obsession with the UK GE blinds them to the underlying shift within Scotland and Wales.
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Actually, I'm interested. I just let you do all the work in analyzing it. ;-)
I'm not sure about the pros and cons of nationalists "lending" their votes to a UK party. Others seem to use that to try to prove that nationalists aren't serious about their nationalism. I suspect it does have the effect that the UK parties don't take it as seriously since they can still count on the votes--and isn't that all that matters?
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The Universality of Cheese sums Mr Gray's re-shuffle up well with One armed bandit front bench reshuffle. As it suggests: "In a move akin to juggling deckchairs on the Titanic, Mr Gray's attempts to spice up his team are pretty difficult to satirise."
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#119. Thanks for the link, Brownedov, since if BBC is covering this I can't find it. On the other hand, is it worth covering? It seems pretty laughable.
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118. JRMacClure
"I'm not sure about the pros and cons of nationalists "lending" their votes to a UK party."
I think it's because many voters are not committed to a party, and choose to vote on issues which seem appropriate to them at a particular election. I presume that also happens in US elections with voters casting their ballots at state/federal levels? (I don't know enough about US politics).
Certainly the polling suggests a fairly high number ov voters willing to change their vote from their preferred party to the one most likely to kick Labour out. I would doubt, therefore, that the Uniform National Swing (UNS) so beloved of those who like to predict the number of seats per party is likely to be as strong in 2010. In each constituency, a number of voters will be looking at how they might best vote to give the party in power at Westminster a good kicking.
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#94 & #106 fishmanuk50
Fishman, if it's racist for Scots to feel that their country should be an independent state again,as you suggest,then surely by the same token the 190 or so existing sovereign states in the world would have to be considered racist constructs.
If you really believe that is the case then you should go on Norwegian blogs and tell Norwegians that they're racist for no longer being in union with Denmark.You could tell Greeks that they're racist for maintaining a state that won independence from the Ottoman Empire in the 1820s.And so on.
If your argument is taken to its logical conclusion then the entire human race is racist because there isn't a giant polity comprising all the landmasses of the world.
There are unionists who post comments here based on what I would concede are reasoned arguments,even if I don't agree with them.Why don't you join them and rise above the 'Scot nats are racist' rubbish?
Scotland's nationalist parties(SNP,Scottish Greens,SSP etc)do not base their nationalism on ethnicity.Something that is conceded by sensible unionists.
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#106, fishmanuk50... ok then, see if you can give me one advantage of Scotland remaining within the union?
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#121. At 6:01pm on 27 Oct 2009, oldnat wrote:
118. JRMacClure
"I'm not sure about the pros and cons of nationalists "lending" their votes to a UK party."
I think it's because many voters are not committed to a party, and choose to vote on issues which seem appropriate to them at a particular election. I presume that also happens in US elections with voters casting their ballots at state/federal levels? (I don't know enough about US politics).
Not in the same way because we don't have a parliamentary system. Over here, people will do both. If a PARTICULAR politician has made them mad, then they'll vote to get him out.
Remember there is strict separation between our legislative, judicial and presidential branches. As you know, we vote directly for the president and then for members of congress.
This makes a huge difference. We don't have to kick out the whole party to get rid of an unpopular president (although we may) and having a different majority in Congress which happens MORE OFTEN THAN NOT does not affect who is president.
Analyzing the differences gets really complicated. There are people who vote a very strict party line and a lot who switch back and forth on issues but rarely to get out a particular party they're mad at. It has happened--did happen in our last presidential election. But that tends to be more of an exception.
State politics are kind of a different breed where party poltics are more likely to come into play.
Funny that with our many similarities, our politics are so very different and it can be hard to take in how very different a presidential system and a parliamentary system is.
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119. Brownedov
Ilike Calum's title Labour - shuffling along
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The Ipsos-Mori issues index for October is now out. They now give data by England, Scotland and Wales.
http://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchpublications/researcharchive/poll.aspx?oItemId=2502
Top 4 issues and the % identifying them in each country as follows -
Issue, GB, Eng, Wales, Sco
Economy/economic situation, 32%, 33%, 17%, 38%
Race relations/ immigration/immigrants, 11%, 12%, 9%, 7%
Crime/law & order/ violence/vandalism/ anti-social behaviour, 10%, 10%, 14%, 8%
Unemployment/factory closure/lack of industry, 10%, 10%, 12%, 9%
I found it interesting that the pattern of concern in Scotland is distinctly different.
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The BBC have finally deigned to mention the reshuffle entirely without using the 'S' word in Gray: Alexander has 'big future'.
Says it all about the others, really that the article begins with "Scottish Labour leader Iain Gray has predicted a political comeback for his predecessor, Wendy Alexander."
No comments from the other Holyrood parties, of course.
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/8328217.stm
I BEG your pardon but where is the word FIRED in that coverage. Heck it doesn't even contain the word "shuffled".
Exactly WHAT does the BBC think that was? DOES the BBC think?
Or does the BBC do nothing but publish Labour Party press releases?
At least I don't pay a license fee and I am truly grateful for that!
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Complaint to the BBC. If that wasn't the Labour news release, I'll -- do something but I can't eat my hat. I don't wear one.
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#117 oldnat
Thanks for the YouGov reference. Wales is clearly behind Scotland in deciding it wants to join the grown-ups and from personal experience I can attest to the existence of a similar "cringe" factor to the one many mention on these threads.
Despite NuLab being on its third term of running the Welsh government, the trends are very much in the same direction, though.
Numbers which impressed me were:
Yes 63% No 20% DK 17% for full law making powers;
Cameron (47%) & Clegg (48%) thought of less badly than Duff Gordon (60%);
Low levels of trust in the UK government;
High levels of trust in the Welsh government;
Same true of trust in AMs vs MPs.
A quick look at Political Party Identification weghtings suggests they're pretty close to English levels, which could end in tears for YouGov.
For those who complain about changes of subject here, on Betsan's Blog, they only started on a YouGov thread this afternoon and already they're being side-tracked with a new thread.
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JR, no need to worry about needing to have a hat... it was indeed the Labour press release. My sources reliably inform me that it was approved by Jim Murphy himself and E-mailed to the BBC for publication earlier this afternoon.
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#125 cynicalHighlander
Thanks for the link. Perhaps less than entirely unbiased but amusing and right on the money, especially about Mr Gray's glittering career prospects I suspect.
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"Then the wicked media pile in - and demand "straight answers to straight questions""
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/8328217.stm
... Eh, what questions?
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I had missed this generous offer from Rangers to the Army, but why is it on the North British Labour site unless they were playing for the Orange vote? It's hardly a political issue.
http://www.scottishlabour.org.uk/labour-mps-welcome-football-tickets-for-soldiers
Sadly, it turned out not to be much of a gift. Rangers 1-4 Unirea Urziceni
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#126 oldnat
"Ipsos-Mori ... I found it interesting that the pattern of concern in Scotland is distinctly different."
I'm sure that's at least partially because of the intermediate level of government and relates to the levels of trust in that tier vs Westmidden as reported in the new YouGov poll for Wales and previous ones for Scotland.
Tiny Scottish and Welsh samples, though, so we shouldn't read too much into it.
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Last week...
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/scotland/article6880293.ece
and Labours' response this week...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/scottishpremier/rangers/6440632/Secretary-of-State-for-Scotland-Jim-Murphy-holds-talks-with-Rangers-bankers.html
&
http://www.scottishlabour.org.uk/labour-mps-welcome-football-tickets-for-soldiers
...you know, they are not even subtle about their tactics any more.
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I hope I scorched someone's eyes for BBC using a political party's press release for "news coverage", not that they'll ever change until and unless they are kicked out following independence.
RICHLY deserved in the opinion of one American.
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#117 oldnat
I think that the elction of a Scottish Government in 2007 will have changed that behaviour in Scotland. IMO the existence and actions of the "independent" Scottish Government will have validated an SNP vote, even in a UK general Election. This is why I have constructed HEC to allow for the 2007 Scottish Constituency results as well as past GE patterns and current "Universal Swing" polls.
HEC gives very much more twitchy results than UK Polling Report or Scotland Votes but it is as far as I can see due to the inbuilt assumption that the election of a Scottish Government has "broken" past voting patterns. I think the fact that the LabCons are trying to revert to the status quo ante by pulically asserting that, as the battle is between them, a vote for anyone else is "wasted", is a validation of my assumption.
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#138
Oops! 8-(
However a quick search shows another 425 people on the Internet who missed the b in publically. 8-)
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#138 handclapping
"trying to revert to the status quo ante by pulically asserting that, as the battle is between them, a vote for anyone else is "wasted""
A nice turn of phrase, but having failed to find pulically in my old OED I wonder whether you mean it in the sense of pulicose [infested with fleas; flea-bitten] or puling [whining; feebly wailing]?
Both seem appropriate.
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I'm somewhat amused at the Labour assertion that a vote for the SNP is a vote for Tories though. So a vote for the SNP is not a vote for the SNP? Fine, but why would it be for Tories? Maybe it would secretly be a vote for the Greens or really, secretly a vote for Labour.
(I know. They are saying it might keep them from getting a majority but that is such a ridiculous fiction since there aren't enough votes in Scotland to swing this election that you can only laugh at it)
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#139 handclapping
How disappointing. I much prefer pulically.
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#139
Preferable to missing the "l"
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To digress I note that as of today the online poll run by the Holyrood magazine on the Megrahi release is running at more than 8 to 1 in favour of MacAskill's decision. Just about right I think.
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sneckedagain beat me to it!!
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#141 JR
You are of course correct to suggest that if everyone in Scotland votes Labour we will still get a Tory government in London. That is unavoidable.
What is important is that nationalist supporters keep working hard until the election and beyond to maximise the SNP vote and to ensure that when Labour collapses into factions, the SNP are already in prime position to capitalise. We must never be complacent that a Labour collapse will be enough to do the job for us.
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OK I'm fairly sure all MSPs and their researchers use some of their time to work on party as opposed to parliamentary business.
However, you have to be fairly inept to publicise that to all the MSPs in Parliament. Step forward Labour MSP Karen Whitefield
http://www2.jpscotland.co.uk/steamie/2009/10/david-maddox-things-that-should-not-be.html
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Parliamentary Recourses
"So I was surprised to receive a copy of an email that was distributed to Labour MSPs and Labour MSPs' researchers earlier today urging readers to assist with the party's efforts in the campaign for the Glasgow North East by-election."
Its what Labour does is use public money for their own ends no change there then.
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Glad to see that Labour have reversed the decision to cut TA funding.
The TA is likely to be a greater % of our armed forces than the regulars compared to the aggressive UK. It would have been deleterious if the Reserve had drifted away due to lack of funding. Once you lose volunteers, it's much more difficult to get them back.
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EU Presidency
Why all the talk of Blair? A really good President would be Mary Robinson from Ireland.
http://blog.spinellisfootsteps.info/post/2009/10/14/Mary-Robinson-for-the-EU-Presidency
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#104 oldnat
We may yet get a marked-up Glenrothes register! I wonder what the SNP will make of it. My understanding is that the SNP were using a super duper computerised system of voter preference whereas Labour were still working from Reading cards. I wonder if their computer system led the Nats astray. It seemed to work in Glasgow East but that was a very concentrated campaign so their info would have been current, like 3 weeks old at best. Glenrothes and Glasgow North East have been long drawn out, I think the last day for nominations is tomorrow, and so some of the work they thought they had / think they have done will be 5 months out of date. IMO in Glenrothes that would have been far too "old" for a campaign where the Council cuts was the ostensible story and the gathering financial crisis was the backdrop. It certainly seems to have put the mockers on anybody from the SNP making any comment about the outcome let alone a prediction. So I'll make mine:- it all depends on the turnout, low SNP, medium to high its Labour again, for 74.5 years. That's longer than the life expectancy of a baby born in Stobhill today and still they vote Labour. Why?
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#150 oldnat
Anything that gets up John Robert's nose is OK by me! As she is one of the ones that feel the responsibilities of power, it is also a good choice. I was all for the Irish saying "No" just to prevent the possibility of Bliar for President. The Times cartoon of Silvio and he was pretty accurate I feel.
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152. handclapping
Hi. Thought I was on my own here!
I presume you meant John Bolton?
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It's the LD woman on Newsnicht the nicht. Oh dear.
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"So I'll make mine:- it all depends on the turnout, low SNP, medium to high its Labour again, for 74.5 years. That's longer than the life expectancy of a baby born in Stobhill today and still they vote Labour. Why?"
Cos the candidate wore a red rosette.
...Shhhh, I didn't say anything about a monkey *;o)
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#153 oldnat
At the risk of some wrath ... Yes, another JR! 8-)
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156. handclapping
I can see JR's next evil Scottish character having a nickname like "handclapping". You might be pilloried for generations to come.
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#154, Oldnat. I had to stop watching that, it was getting a bit uncomfortable. I thought the Lib Dem woman was about to start crying at one point.
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just watched newsnight!! Good grief it was cringe worthy, the Lib dems don't have a snowflakes chance. At least no glenn mind you
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It was like a horror show, i couldn't look at the screen i was so emmbarrassed for the poor woman
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#151
I have to say that I was working in GR eve of poll and I never felt as sure of an SNP victory as I felt then. You can tell it on the thumbs up and the waves.
There was some other factor at work and I know what I think it was but we'll never know.
The significant factor about the GR election was that the Tories and the UK establishment wanted Labour to win it as well to cement lame-duck Brown as Labour leader so there was no real attention to the absolutley outrageous misplacing of the voting papers, marked up registers and apparently the over 9000 POSTAL VOTES.
I'm not sure what the UK establishment want at Glasgow North East. It may be completely relaxed about an SNP victory as Labour is now sunk completely and even an unlikely messy change of leadership can't save them.
Anybody who thinks we will saunter off to independence without a range of dirty tricks and worse is deluding themselves. Fiddling an election is easy and is small beer compared to what they could hit us with.
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#157 oldnat
I won't worry. All these electronic records will get wiped in 2013 when the next big solar flare directed at Earth will erase the lot. Who would be a historian in 2209 when all the records from 200 years ago have been lost apart from a precious copy of a Dan Brown "fact" book!
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Guys, guys! Remember the introduction. Newsnicht said it was interviewing the "main" candidates in Glasgow NE!
The notional LD vote in Glasgow NE in 2001 was between 0.83% and 1.01%. One must not be sorry for the candidate for a party which got such a huge vote in the constituency!
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oldnat
I leave the political commentary to you. I'll make another prediction, though. Brian's next blog will at some point reflect on a bad night for Dundee football. Off to my bed, the heating's all awry with the change of times.
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#146. Absolutely!
#164. Handclapping, were you picking on me again? You better watch out!
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I haven't seen this one. Anyone have a link?
But the two times I saw the poor LD woman she totally humiliated herself. I absolutely felt like they'd thrown a defenseless lamb to the wolves she's so hopeless.
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I visualize them at a meeting of the LD.
"Who's going to throw themselves to the wolves?" Tavish Scott demands.
"Not me!" All the men step hurriedly back leaving the poor dear standing alone.
She cringes but throws herself to the tender mercies of the media for the "good of the party".
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167. JRMacClure
"I visualize them at a meeting of the LD. "
Mrs Nat described her as a typical social worker. "Concerned for the poor but without a clue as how they got there, or how to get them out of it."
And now, having anatagonised all the social workers out there .... :-)
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166. JRMacClure
"Anyone have a link?"
I presume you have one of these sneaky programs that persuades the Beeb that you are in the UK? BBC2 Newsnight Scotland will be carrying interviews with the "main" candidates for the next few nights.
It's a cheat of course. They aren't the main parties in the constituency, but the main parties in Scotland.
BBC Scotland doesn't give a damn about Glasgow NE, because all their people live in the "nice" parts of Glasgow.
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#168. To some extent but she's even more clueless than that. She actually suggested that the Scottish Government could pay for local projects by canceling the Trident in an earlier interview!
When it was pointed out that wouldn't work she simply had no reply except, "Oh, well..."
She is truly hopeless. I've known some articulate social workers even if they were clueless in some areas. Hopefully, they keep that poor dear to licking stamps in the future. It's painful to see someone embarrass themselves quite so much.
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Well, I understand LD isn't exactly a main party their but mostly they're the same right? Well, really only Labour and SNP I suppose. ;-)
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An amusing summary of Mr Gray's position in today's Thunderer, linked as Iain Gray can remain the quiet man no longer from their main Scotland News page.
After pointing out that in the circumstances of his inheritance, "chalices do not come much more poisoned", it goes on to acknowledge that Mr G himself has "in an unguarded moment, admitted to a newspaper recently that he needed to raise his profile".
Overall, though the killer would seem to be: "Yet if lack of profile and dynamism remain a problem, so does the apparent lack of ideas from Labour to set about enthusing voters."
Not even damned with faint praise.
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Good old GMS (or is it the thing just after GMS). The day after a report about Scotland feeling safer from crime, they obviously feel that we are not scared enough, so they have a phone in about crime with the following questions (slight paraphrasing):
"why is there so much crime"
"Have you been a victim of crime, please tell us"
"why are so many crimes unreported?"
You could not make it up.
John
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#123
You still have some sort of banking structure.
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#174 fishmanuk50
So does Iceland. And at least it was their own Government that made the mistakes in regulation. Try again.
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#174
As indeed does every other country in the world including Ireland, Iceland and all the others in the Arc of Recovery who are dealing sensibly and independently with their problems without any recourse to any of the billions that the UK borrowed from China to bail out that huge English bank HBOS.
Do you understand that the UK national debt is rising at the rate of £500,000,000 per day and is absolutely unsustainable?
They used to say we had to remain in the Union to be a part of the UK's powerful economy.
Now they say we have to stay in the UK because we have to take our share of massive national debt.
I note that the latest study in comparative success of national economies puts UK in 12th place, behind Ireland........
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Ah, I see fishmanuk50 is back, so maybe he/she can answer my question from my #123, rather than ignoring it?
My #123; "#106, fishmanuk50... ok then, see if you can give me one advantage of Scotland remaining within the union?"
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#174
"You still have some sort of banking structure."
You've given the game away.
Had you been Scottish you would have said "WE still have some sort of banking structure."
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After watching Newsnight Scotland last night I think we can assume a new Lib Dem tactic is afoot.
They are going for the sympathy vote.
As for the Labour re-shuffle....
No "Sackings" ?
No derisory comment from other parties?
I'll be generous and suggest that perhaps the BBC thought the new Labour front bench details damaging enough that it required no further negative spin?
I'm trying to work out who takes over from Gray out of that lot?
I can only think that his survival strategy is to surround himself with those who make him appear statesman like in comparison.
Finally - nice of Gordon to "intervene" on the TA funding. Obviously he just belatedly got wind of it, and immediately his moral compass told him that this just was not on!!!
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Oh yes....
And please please please bring back Wendy!
My username seems so dated
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#173 John__
"Good old GMS ... phone in about crime ... You could not make it up."
Neither could GMS, I suspect. They seem to be, as usual, cherry picking from rants in the unionist dead tree press, of which the Thunderer's Crime victims suffer in silence because they lack confidence in police is typical. Helpfully sub-titled "Scottish government under heavy criticism as Crime and Justice Survey shows one in five people was a victim last year" on the main Scotland News page, it goes on in the same vein and trys but fails to make negative comparisons with the situation in England.
Of course they could have taken a more measured view, like the Scotsman's Alcohol-related violence still scourge of Scotland which includes: "Released as figures showed gun crime had fallen to the lowest level in a decade, the survey gives some credibility to the SNP's claim to have turned the corner on law and order. But it also shows that Scotland must tackle alcohol-related violence, something which requires a cultural change, not tinkering with drink prices."
But that, of course, would require some actual thought about the pricing proposals all the unionist parties want to attack.
To be fair, the Scotsman was obviously embarrassed by printing a reasonably balanced leader, so compensated with its Haymarket hotel: 'The refusal is a massive kick in the teeth'. This states that the Scottish Government, having been accused of "betraying Glasgow and hampering its economic prospects when it abandoned the city's airport rail link" now "stands accused of doing the same to Edinburgh".
As so often in the Scotsman, the comments are well worth a look.
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Another good blog from Iain Macwhirter today, with his Martin Bell and the expenses scandal, examining the history of MP expense scandals back to '94. It's hard to disagree with his:
"MPs seem incapable as a class of learning from the past since they don't appear to believe they have done anything wrong.. One of the most astonishing aspects of the whole expenses scandal is the almost wilful disregard MPs showed for their own moral and political well being."
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PS to my #181
No "balance" from the Herald's leader on the crime figures.
Despite closing with "The Scottish Government strove to put an optimistic gloss on yesterday’s figures. The sad truth is that, though most of us worry too much about crime, drink-fuelled violence continues to stain Scottish society and, until we work out how to deter people from carrying knives and drinking themselves stupid, these figures are unlikely to change", there's no mention of the Herald's view on current government initiatives in this area.
The only surprise is that they made no reference to Mr Bain's campaign in Glasgow NE. They could hardly have provided a more ringing endorsement to him and, like him, make no attempt at costing his proposals.
No wonder the Herald no longer allow comments when they print dross like this.
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#178 No games to give away, i'm afraid. I said that I was British. Nice comparison with Iceland.
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#181 Brownedov
MadDog is on top form in the Hootsmon. McMillan of Labour and the CBI and "un-named" other business leaders crying down the Government. No names for the others, did they really exist or was it another made up rant? I think the telling item was the way the GARL was slipped in. If there was a more senseless waste of our money than putting in a link to a facility that will be as dead as a dodo in 5 years time I have yet to hear of it. ( Sorry take that back, duck houses, but of course they are British duck houses, Global, not Wee Eck. ) Labour's Adonis going flat out for a TGV from London to Glasgow, and we know what the first TGV did to the flight market Paris-Marseilles and what Eurostar is doing to London-Brussels-Paris, but Labour's Purcell saying cancelling GARL is a slap in the face for Glasgow.
Labour, all over the place, everywhere; BBC Scotland and two "i"s, no spine versus the London Labour Cabinet. But the SNP decided to cancel GARL so it has to be wrong. *sheesh*
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fishmanuk50:
#174.
"You still have some sort of banking structure."
It's quite amusing that individuals seek to use British failure as reason against independence, or even as a benefit since 'Scotland is protected'.
If Scotland regulated the financial services and made raised her own taxation, you may actually have a point that somehow Scotland was saved.
However since it's put of our control and everything is controlled by London, or least regulated south of the border, is it worth the situation being held up as a benefit of the union?
You've mentioned your British, then you'll disregard everything you've heard about Scottish banks, because apart from the name we know there is nothing Scottish about the international banks, which contributed to the British Treasury and the entire UK economy.
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#185 handclapping
"*sheesh*"
I hope that made you feel better, but indeed balanced and objective reporting at its finest. As John's #173 aptly puts it: "You could not make it up."
But as others have said, this is just a taster for the 2010 general election, which in turn will be a practice run for the 2011 Holyrood elections.
IMO, and judging by opinion poll and voting patterns, the whole process is having a similar effect to that of vaccination in gradually protecting from the full virulence of the smallpox soon to be unleashed by exposing us all to the rather milder cowpox on a daily basis.
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afternoon all - #173 john_ & 181 brownedov if it wasn't for you 2 I would be getting worried.
my thoughts before i checked on here were is it ground hog day or was it a repeat?
In the programme this morning at least 4 of the contributor's had been on a similar programme on the same theme on Morning Extra not that long ago. In fact graham had to halt one of them before he landed himself in serious trouble.
add in the tory rent a quote and bobs your auntie
Sid
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More cowpox from this website's Home debt plan 'rogues' charter', I think, with its typically strident beginning: "Scottish government plans to make it more difficult for houses to be repossessed have been branded a "rogues' charter"."
This of course is from the same Scottish government criticised for inaction on this website's Call for action on repossessions this time last year with its unsurprising beginning: "Scottish opposition parties have joined forces to call for new rules on preventing home repossessions."
No prizes for guessing that neither article deigns to mention that the rules on preventing home repossessions were the very same ones that those opposition parties had thought entirely adequate when in government until just over a year before.
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Here's an idea (apologies if this has been covered before and if I'm being hopelessly naive).
Can the energy be found to lobby for a fair and balanced General Election coverage from the media, especially the BBC?
I would suggest setting up an online petition, contacting MPs, MSPs etc.
I've no idea how to go about this, but if a lot of people can express an online opinion on Megrahi then it is not impossible for something similar to be done regarding the media and democracy.
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#190 Blind_Captain
"I would suggest setting up an online petition, contacting MPs, MSPs etc."
Good idea. For starters, E-Petitions on both http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/ and http://epetitions.scottish.parliament.uk/ would be a good start.
Why not post a draft here and see whether a version with wide support from posters here can be agreed?
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Not entirely surprising that there's no mention on this website of the Evening Standard's top story: I can’t work with ‘Mr Flash’ says Merkel as Blair bids for presidency
Like the Scotsman, worth reading as much for the comments as the article. My favourite was John of Exeter's: "Ah well ... sorry about that, Tone! Another nice little earner gone down the pan, then, but Gordie's "support" was really the kiss of death, wasn'it?"
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@192.Brownedov, hooray, Jonah Brown strikes again!
I'm very optimistic that Global's continual fulsome praise of Britishness and the union will have exactly the same effect.
If you're ever lying in a hospital bed and Brown appears at the door pull out the tubes and make a run for it.
P.S I really did underestimate Giggity Grey's power, what a reshuffle!
All those heavyweights, who knew?
Thanks for link to universality of cheese, that beach photo is priceless.
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#79 Diabloandco on the new thread
"Not hospitalised for spreading rumours?!"
It would seem not. See http://new-right.blogspot.com/ with threads posted by Dean today and yesterday.
I couldn't blame him for being bored with BT just now.
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Poated this on the obituary thread in error
Mr Eugenides has a totally tasteless :-) description of the NBLab shuffle (sounds like a 1920s dance)! I won't give the link, as the mods are sensitive creatures and might be offended, but most of you have probably come across his blog.
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A bit of insider information over on PB about why the Kinloss Nimrods are safe as Ainsworth said.
.”11 at Kinloss 9 grounded for maintenance, 2 grounded for bird strike damage .. so safe as not flying. So safe they are not in use then. That explains why Ainsworth could be so assured about saying they were safe! That is really bad.”
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#193 GrassyKnollington
"If you're ever lying in a hospital bed and Brown appears at the door pull out the tubes and make a run for it."
Point taken, but the same would apply to Ms Sturgeon's new shadow.
"that beach photo is priceless"
At least this one one demostrates that Ms Sturgeon's new shadow has a significant personal interest in the NHS.
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Final candidate list for Glasgow NE
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/8329597.stm
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@ 197 Brownedov, lol poor Nicola, if that's her new shadow she's going to be very pasty indeed. I'd start on the vitamin D supplements if I were her.
Anyone got any idea why the estimable "Wee Wendy bring it oan" wasn't brought on by Giggity? Maybe she'll return from purgatory like Mandelson to save the day. I miss that pastel bedjacket thingy, that ego, those bedtime stories, her unique handle on the ethenpee and her sense of entitlement.
I've been watching Jedward from x factor to try and get my "unpopular but compelling twins" fix but they're not a patch on herself and Douglas.
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fourstrikes must be aghast at the fact that there are two Scottish Socialist parties, and one British Socialist party standing in a constituency where the Left could have had a respectable vote.
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197. Brownedov
""that beach photo is priceless""
Reminds me of Michelin Man only he could run.
WARDOG
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#191 and everyone else who cares about this subject.
See my 190 and the suggestion from 191 Brownedov.
I'm keen for this to happen and we have, perhaps, 6 months to make a difference, if we can.
Here's my first stab at a proposed online petition. Please contribute.
We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister etc..
"Guarantee that the UK media, including the BBC, other UK broadcasters, both television and radio, together with both online and paper editions of the UK press, conduct a fair representation of the forthcoming General Election.
All mainstream political parties, including those with a UK-wide interest and those who restrict their interests and activities to the constituent nations of the UK, to be treated equally.
Activities from broadcasters and the other media to follow these basic rules;
to apply scrutiny to political party's election manifestos equally.
to apply questions to political partys or their representatives equally and fairly.
to ensure that balanced coverage is achieved during broadcast and publication.
to set up a mechanism for the duration of the general election campaign that will allow the media to be accountable to the general public."
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#184
You suggested you were from the North East of Scotland. The post is there.
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SNP FACTS VS LABOUR MYTHS OVER GLASGOW BEING "RIPPED OFF
"Glasgow has 11.5% of Scotland's population. It receives:
* 30% of all housing and regeneration expenditure
* 25% of all NHS spending"
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Post 106 to be exact.
There's a lie her. Which one is it?
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#200 oldnat
Three socialist parties standing. I wonder which one floats Delboy’s boat?
By the way why are you not using that Firefox add-on?
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206. Roll_On_2010
I am using it. But in that post, I'd have been responding to myself - which is sometimes (but not always) appropriate.
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#197 brownedov and #199 grassy
Nicola's new shadow gets her position by being vociferous about keeping a failing and actually failed hospital (Vale of Leven) open.
[Insert deity/non-deity of choice] help us if she's the best that Northern British NuLab can offer to fill the health brief.
Innocent to the slaughter. Bring buckets for the blood. This observer predicts that Nicola is going to make her look EXTREMELY silly.
Star pick by the Grey Man !
As for Bendy Wendy making a reappearance - Get Real. She's only holding on until '11 so that there's no by-election. She'll be off to fill a Chair of "Government" or "Politics" at a second-rate US Uni before you can say Northern British NuLab Meltdown. Both her and Joke would have been happy to go last year but were told to stay put at all costs to avoid two constituencies actually facing the electors.
Where is Joke these days anyway ? Still serving the electors of Motherwell and Wishaw ? Or is he down in the smoke getting his coaching for being Broon's representative to Malawi ?
Point of interest - What happens when CMD gets in - does Joke still get his solar topee and Foreign Office issue silly costume ? If he doesn't, then all of this time he is spending darn sarf being coached is a bit of a waste of public time and money ?
Post Scriptum for the "backbone" department of Northern British BBC Newsroom. You could do worse than examine the roasting that Alistair Stewart gave "Defence" Secretary Bob Ainsworth this evening on the ITN News at 6-30 over Nimrod. Absolutely first class piece of interviewing. Mr C and Ms R, take note ! Alistair, the Beeb needs you !
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A backbone for the Northern British Brainwashing Company Newsroom would require two surgeries: one to remove the glencambelly brainwashing elements and a second to insert said backbone.
I fear you shouldn't hold your breath.
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196. oldnat
Thats nothing new as it has been going on for decades. I remember speaking to a fighter pilot more than 20 years ago, sadly he parked his last one on a hillside in Wales, he told me that due to a shortage of spares they had to keep canabilising aircraft to rotate each machines monthly flying hours. It was either 30% or 50% planes grounded continually because of these spare shortages. Keeping up appearances in the wider world was the name of the game.
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Didn't someone promise to post instructions on how to use the Foxfire add-on thingmabobie?
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#195 oldnat
"description of the NBLab shuffle (sounds like a 1920s dance)!"
Right era but perhaps a decade or so out. Mr G is clearly hoping to emulate Scott Joplin's Easy Winners of 1901 but more likely to find himself doing Joplin's Great Crush Collision March of 1896 or perhaps James P Johnson's Mule Walk of 1938.
Meanwhile in No.10, Duff Gordon will soon be doing Charles Luckeyth Roberts' Junk Man Rag of 1913 or perhaps George Linus Cobb's Midnight Trot of 1916.
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211. JRMacClure
try here
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211. JRMacClure
They did. If aye-write was still around, she'd probably tell you that men always let you down. :-)
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As most of the traffic has moved here, I have made a suggestion over on the Michael Shea thread that we establish a convention to deal with these times viz
Brian
IMO it would be worthwhile to establish a convention for your blog that:-
When the thread is about the death of some person of worth, that the posts should be memorials of or condolences for that person, and, if not, should be treated by the mods as off topic and removed,
meanwhile, normal service, where posters bash their gums on every other subject, should continue on the previous thread until such time as you, Brian, post a further new thread.
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#195 oldnat &
#199 GrassyKnollington
Thanks to oldnat's oblique reference to a sadly unrepeatable site and the wonders of YouTube, you can watch both fragrant ladies in full flow in the presence of his glencambliness himself, for once not glecambly at all.
Ms Baillie here and Ms McNeill here.
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Wonderful stuff on "Mev Brown, independent" for Glasgow NE from J Arthur
http://macnumpty.blogspot.com/2009/10/mev-ptahk.html
"Incidentally, mev is Klingon for 'stop'." :-)
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#210. Sad to say, that shows the ultimate cost of "playing with the big boys". (Or perhaps more accurately politicians displaying their dangly bits)
It might explain some of my attitudes if you knew that my late husband was a professional in the US military until one day he used one of his guns to blow his brains out. Well, I had political differences with the US even before that having always been a liberal but still... It brought home to me who it is who pays the price.
I remember well in one of our INTERMINABLE wars (when ISN'T the US at war?), a good friend saying that he wouldn't come home this time. I was never quite sure why he was so sure--but he was right. Or perhaps I should say he was wrong because he did come home in a coffin.
I have a lot of days when I'm bitter at my own country; in fact, it would be hard to tell you how bitter I am.
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218. JRMacClure
I know you weren't posting that for sympathy, but you have it anyway.
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Have BBC Scotland ackowledged the cosy alliance of the Rose and the Sash in ANY WAY WHATSOEVER yet?
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#219. No, I wasn't, oldnat, although I probably shouldn't have posted something so personal. I appreciate you saying that though.
But it seems to go on and on and I honestly believe that the only way to end it is the tack that the SNP is taking. Which is why there will be a fierce fight to stop them. At least, I would like to see an end to YOUR people going to die in OUR wars.
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#198 oldnat
Thanks for the link and, surprise, surprise, the glencambliness starts in the 2nd para with: "the main parties - Labour, the Tories, the SNP and Lib Dems"
Alphabetical might be acceptable [Labour, L-Ds, SNP, Tories] although the official list here shows them as "Scottish Conservative and Unionist, Scottish Labour Party Candidate, Scottish Liberal Democrats, Scottish National Party (SNP)"
The only possible reason for non-alpha order is some kind of "ranking" in which case:
In 2005 only the SNP contested the seat - coming second
In 2005 the national order was Lab, L-D, SNP, Con
In 2007 the national order was SNP, Lab, Con, L-D
In 2007 the national order was SNP, Lab, Con, L-D
In all fairness, SNP, Lab, Con, L-D seems the "fair" order if the list anything but alphabetical.
Given that the noble Baron Martin of Springburn was once NuLab, it would not be entirely unreasonable to list the order as Lab, SNP, Con, L-D.
I can think of no justification for the order the BBC have actually published.
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#202 Blind_Captain
First thoughts are that it's pretty good. Perhaps separate petitions are needed for broadcast and other media, since the regulators are different and the press is a supposedly free market. Also, for the BBC, the big problem is that the BBC Trust has proven it cannot be trusted to self-regulate and regulation like the other broadcasters is needed during election periods.
I'll do some research and post again, but perhaps not tonight.
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Unfortunately Mary Robinson has ruled herself out of the EU Presidency.
A real pity. She has shown herself to be a peacemaker in the past, and a woman from one of the smaller EU countries would have sent a message to the world that aggression and "dangly bits" (hat tip JR) machismo are not what we should be about in Europe.
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#195 oldnat
"description of the NBLab shuffle (sounds like a 1920s dance)!"
This is a repeat of my post #212. It contains no explicit language or inappropriate links. If whoever referred #212 does so again, would they please post explaining why.
Right era but perhaps a decade or so out. Mr G is clearly hoping to emulate Scott Joplin's Easy Winners of 1901 but more likely to find himself doing Joplin's Great Crush Collision March of 1896 or perhaps James P Johnson's Mule Walk of 1938.
Meanwhile in No.10, Duff Gordon will likely soon be doing Charles Luckeyth Roberts' Junk Man Rag of 1913 or perhaps George Linus Cobb's Midnight Trot of 1916.
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#195 oldnat &
PS to my #222
Re the BBC's four "main parties", does anyone know the odds on all four being in the "top four"?
SNP and Lab must have good odds of making the top two slots, but the Cons and L-Ds can hardly be confident of retaining their deposits.
Especially if Smeaton or the socialists take any significant number of Bain's votes we could be seeing them in 5th or 6th place.
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Celtic 0 - 1 Hearts (supporter A Salmond)
Expect to see Bain saying this is another example of the SNP discriminating against Glasgow.
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#67 oldnat
Working through the ComRes of 27/10 for the Indy, I put the 65 Scottish sample through HEC ... er C 5:L 2:ld 3:SNP 49. Still Tom Clarke and Ian Davidson could comiserate in their taxi that Frank Roy had lost by only 25 votes!
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#228. *poke poke*
Would you care to express that in something at least resembling English? Heck, I'd even take Scots over geek-speak. ;-)
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228. handclapping
"I put the 65 Scottish sample through HEC"
I hadn't realised the sophistication of HEC! It gives the result not of the next GE, but the subsequent one. :-)
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" 227. At 9:25pm on 28 Oct 2009, oldnat wrote:
Celtic 0 - 1 Hearts (supporter A Salmond)
Expect to see Bain saying this is another example of the SNP discriminating against Glasgow"
Expect this idiotic statement too make the final count an additional 3,000 votes bigger for Bain.
Keep them coming oldnat and co/ It's a right old Giggle.
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231. brownresolute
"It's a right old Giggle."
You don't need to tell us you are a right-winger! That's been more than obvious from your party's policies, and your supporters.
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229. JRMacClure
What he said was "I applied the small Scottish sub-sample from the Com-Res polling organisation for the Independent newspaper, through my own analysis software. The consequent result was Con 5 MPs :Lab 2 MPs :Lib-Dem 3 MPs :SNP 49 MPs. The two remaining Labour MPs (Tom Clarke and Ian Davidson) could commiserate in their taxi that Frank Roy (Glenrothes) had lost by only 25 votes to the SNP!
Geeks rule! :-)
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#231, "Expect this idiotic statement too make the final count an additional 3,000 votes bigger for Bain."
There is only one 'o' it 'to'!
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232oldnat
Hang your head in shame corporal oldnat, for posting such material on a thread for the dead.
It's time to shut this site down Brian! the unclean have poisoned it's
meaning.
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I've just noticed that brownresolute is an anagram of burnt loser woe. Quite an apt description of what Labour supporters will be feeling after the next election.
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Pretty small sub-sample of course but you both know that. What would happen if you added TOGETHER all the sub-samples from the last few weeks? *beams and proves her non-geekiness*
By the way, how good is his analysis software?
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234 Bongo
" There is only one 'o' it 'to'!" Ka? you know nothing!.
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236 frequently?
Now! Now! no need for the nationalist to get their handbags out.
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235. brownresolute
You are more than a little confused. This thread is for the drunk not the dead. The obituary thread is where I'm not posting. Unless you are referring to Labour as being both dead and drunk?
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#233 oldnat
Thanks, Frank Roy would be the ex-MP for Motherwell and Wishaw, it's Lindsay Roy who would be the ex-MP for Glenrothes, by 4547 votes.
I do hope you noticed the absence of Global. They'll be dancing in the streets of Raith! 8-)
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236. InfrequentAllele
And an anagram of derekbarker is Bark Red Reek.
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" 240. At 10:26pm on 28 Oct 2009, oldnat wrote:
235. brownresolute
You are more than a little confused. This thread is for the drunk not the dead. The obituary thread is where I'm not posting. Unless you are referring to Labour as being both dead and drunk?"
Good lord! the drunken nats on binge time! Old Frisky is blowing bubbles.
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241. handclapping
Mea culpa. That's the trouble with clones - they all tend to merge into each other. :-)
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241. At 10:27pm on 28 Oct 2009, handclapping wrote:
#233 oldnat
Thanks, Frank Roy would be the ex-MP for Motherwell and Wishaw, it's Lindsay Roy who would be the ex-MP for Glenrothes, by 4547 votes.
I do hope you noticed the absence of Global. They'll be dancing in the streets of Raith! 8-)
And Rod Hull has his hand slapping about up your back!.
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243. brownresolute
A wee hint. A joke is seldom funny the second time around. Go back to being derek - he could be quite amusing.
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#237 JR
You'd get bigger numbers meaning nothing as each individual sample would have been selcted and weighted by different methods so you have no way of knowing how likely that consolidated result might be. At least with a sample of 65 you know it is rubbish, a 13% margin of error so it is just a bit of fun for geeks to "translate" it into GE results.
I was really letting oldnat know just how twitchy HEC is.
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247. handclapping
To be fair to JR (who is a self-confessed non-geek) I've seen every party in Scotland try to aggregate the sub-samples and suggest they mean something. They should all know better.
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The Tory candidate on Newsnicht, the nicht.
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#245 derek
LOL with all your commentary coming straight off the presses at John Smith House you make a much better Emu than I. 8-)
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Sheesh! who was the big face nat with the perm on NEWSNIGHT, talking all posh about the RAF? and the nimrod disaster.
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#98(obituary thread) barbarian9
"there are rumblings that labour will use the accusation that a vote for the snp is a vote for the conservatives, basing their argument on two things: 1979 and alex's alleged desire for a tory victory."
These are not rumblings. They are already deploying these.
Points to note - In 1979, Callaghan's Government had little time to go in any case, and England voted in the Tories, as England later voted in Labour. Scots votes have never been more marginal in deciding which GB party governs the UK.
The SNP's preference is a hung parliament at Westminster. How England votes will decide whether Lab or Con govern next time round.
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Tory better than the LD - but thinks that NHS reforms are "a benefit of the Union"!
Ignorant candidate.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
251. brownresolute
He's the MP who represents the families of the victims who died in the Nimrod disaster - which was caused by Labour prioritising target-setting over people's lives.
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"Tony Blair set to stand for EU presidency 'if job is big enough'"
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article6894719.ece
What are his fingers pointing at, and is that relevant to being EU President?
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#248. Actually I was quite well aware that it wouldn't work. I thought I expressed that but it is also an exercise in amusement much like extrapolating results from a sample of 65.
I'm not THAT big a non-geek. ;-)
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257. JRMacClure
But it does make you significantly more a geekier non-geek than the political parties! :-)
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From the sub-editor of the Scottish Sun on-line -
"Nimrod is back on page nine in the English edition at the moment, page two in Scotland."
Says it all really.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
260mrb
Vot ist your problem MrB, do you like the referrals?.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Well I suppose multiple referrals is a strategy for a poster who has no arguments.
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261. brownresolute
The mods giving me their tender lovin' tonight :)
I wouldn't mind (ok, i would), but I could go through this blog and pick out a host of off-topic posts :(
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).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chapter One
New Prisoner
Oldnat was down in the tunnel with Handclapping, radioing London with some of the latest news that Klink had accidently revealed from Berlin.
“Colonel, Klink wants to see you. Schultz says it’s important.” Newkirk announced as he jogged into the Tunnel. Oldnat sighed and finished the message. “Let’s go see then.”
Oldnat knocked on the door to Klink’s office. “Come in.” Klink called. Oldnat entered to see a young soldier standing before Klink’s desk. “You wanted to see me, Sir?” He asked.
“Ah, yes. Colonel Oldnat. We have a new prisoner today. Private Sam Smith was being held at Stalag 10, but kept escaping after his capture 3 months ago. He has been sent to Stalag 13 to stop escaping.” Klink explained. “After all, No-one has ever escaped from Stalag 13.” He added proudly.
Oldnat rolled his eyes. ‘We escape all the time.’ He thought. “Not for trying, sir.” He protested. Klink smirked. “Trying, Oldnat. That’s all it will ever be. Trying.”
“Yes sir.” Oldnat replied. “Now, let me just finish up with this prisoner and he shall be sent to your barracks.” Klink told him. “Dismissed.”
Oldnat winked at Helga as he passed before entering his barracks. All the men were waiting for him round the small table next to the heater.
“What did he want Colonel?” Brownedov asked. “A new prisoner. A Private who rebelled at his last camp has been sent here.” Oldnat told them, taking his seat at the table next to mrbfaethedee.
“So what do we do, Colonel?” Brownedov asked. “The usual. We test him and then, if proven worthy, show him the whole operation.” Oldnat told them, drinking deeply from the mug placed in front of him.
Sam was dismissed from Klink’s office and led across the courtyard to the Barracks directly opposite the Commandant’s office. The door was opened and a short Scotsman greeted Schultz before leading the new soldier inside.
Oldnat was mulling over some questions to ask when the door was opened and Brownedov led the new recruit into his office. “Ah, Brownedov. I see you have the new prisoner. Good, good. You may leave.” He greeted. “Oui, Colonel.” Brownedov grinned as he left.
Oldnat looked over Sam with a keen eye. “How old are you, Private?” He asked. “Seventeen, sir.” Sam replied. “Very good. You came from Stalag 10?” Oldnat tried again. “Yes, sir.”
“Is Sergeant gedguy still there? You know, from the 6th Brigade?” Oldnat questioned, knowing there was no Sergeant gedguy at Stalag 10. “There never was a Sergeant gedguy, sir.” Sam replied.
One point to the newbie. “How about Colonel Porter? He was in the 8th Brigade.” This time there was a real Colonel Porter, but he wasn’t in the 8th Brigade. He was leading the new forces.
“He wasn’t in the 8th Brigade, sir. He led my group, sir, and he was killed when we were shot down.” Sam replied with remorse.
Oldnat felt a twinge of sadness, but continued the questions. After about five minutes of endless questions and not one wrong answer, Oldnat declared Private Sam Smith to be safe.
“Well done Private Smith, you just passed. It’s a routine thing to weed out spies.” Oldnat announced. “Very good, sir.” Sam praised. “Now for introductions. I am…” Oldnat began.
“Colonel Oldnat, husband to Mrs Oldant and father to Jr Nat.” Sam interrupted, reciting who Oldnat was as if off by heart.
“How do you know all that?” Oldnat asked immediately suspicious. No-one knew that he had married at 17 to Mrs Oldnat, or that they had a son who was 17 himself. No-one.
“My name isn’t Sam Smith, sir. I took the surname Smith as it was my mother’s maiden name.” Sam began. “My mother’s name was Mrs Oldnat, nee Smith. I am Jr Nat.”
“Never saw that coming.” Brownedov exclaimed, shaking his head.
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265. brownresolute
Now that was funny! :-)
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Looks like another trougher ready for act of contrition:
Tony McNulty told to apologise and repay.
Tony McNulty, the former Labour minister, will be ordered to repay more than £13,000 he claimed in expenses for his parents’ home.
A parliamentary inquiry will also order the MP to make a public apology in the House of Commons.
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265. brownresolute
How come i didn't get a speaking part?!
I was obviously only in there as eye-candy :)
oh, and wtf?!
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268. mrbfaethedee
Ha jealousy! derek clearly sees my leadership role within the Escape Committee! - Perceptive chap. I've always said so :-)
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#268. And nice eye-candy you were, but a shorter kilt if you please. ;-)
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My favorite blog strikes again:
http://mypseudepigrapha.blogspot.com/
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271. JRMacClure
To think I was standing near him in the Theatre Royal! Yrcch!
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Darn photographers! just when JP was getting into the swing of things.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_zZU8tobW0Ps/StsehcTLRDI/AAAAAAAAAcY/JJR0aKNWbH8/s1600-h/Hootsmon+2pope.jpg
If it all goes bananas up! blame the press.
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#242, An anagram of Brownresolute is 'Worsen trouble'
*;O)
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With both the Scottish and English media concentrating, with some justification, on Ainsworth and McNulty today, and hoping nobody will notice the lack of coverage of the by-election, Matthew Norman in the Indy lightens the gloom a little with his Isn't it time Gordon Brown was put out of his misery? The unpleasant references to blood sports apart there are some beautiful images painted in prose...
Re dislike: "With Gordon, there's a measure of perplexity, a dash of anger and a heavy twist of disdain, but the base of the cocktail is embarrassed pity."
Re Bliar as Mr Prez: "Yet here the poor turkey is, in utter thrall to Lord Mandelson for keeping him in office, urging fellow EU leaders to vote for Christmas."
Re the TA U-turn: "picking a fight with the army to save a measly £20m is like mugging Vera Lynn for a 10p piece"
Re expenses: "being under permanent house arrest with Lord Mandelson as jailer is one thing, being Sir Stuart Bell's prisoner over expenses is another"
Summary: "Gordon is the Sadim of global politics, everything this reverse Midas touches turning straight to plutonium."
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Worth pointing out that when the small SNP group of MPs withdrew its support from the Callaghan government in 1979 the 72 LibDems did the same. Funny how nobody ever mentions that!
Even if the SNP had voted with Labour or abstained the Callaghan government was coming down.
If my memory serves me correctly in the whole House of Commons only a handful of Irish nationalists supported Callaghan's Labour Party which was nearly but not quite as unpopular as Brown's sorry Labour Government of today.
The fact of the matter is that even if everybody in Scotland votes Labour next Spring we will still have a Tory Governement. I don't think anybody could be persuaded in that eventuality that a return to the "feeble fifty" days would be worth repeating.
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#198 oldnat &
PS to my #222
This website's Nominations close in by-election has now been updated and the "final list of candidates" is now shown in alpha order of surname like the official list from Glasgow Council.
Oddly, however, they haven't applied it to the candidates' allegiances, viz:
Scottish Labour Party Candidate becomes "Labour";
Scottish Liberal Democrats becomes "Liberal Democrats";
Scottish Conservative and Unionist becomes "Conservative";
Scottish Green Party becomes "Green Party";
Scottish National Party (SNP) becomes "SNP";
Solidarity – Scotland’s Socialist Movement becomes "Solidarity"
There has obviously been some cherry picking here, since "Kevin McVey, Scottish Socialist Party – Make Greed History" is shown on this website correctly and unbowdlerised, as are the other candidates not mentioned above.
Would anyone care to guess why BBC Scotland has made these apparently inappropriate changes compared to what will be printed on the ballot papers?
PPS my #225 response to your #195 has now been removed from mod purgatory, which unfortunately still cannot be said of #2 to #14 on the "new" thread.
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To ask the blog if they think the FM is in danger of receiving an ASBO for shouting to much!. Giggle...........
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The disgraced yet born again Hain is making a bid to become as great a bastion of the union as his skeletorial "oppo" in Scotland according to this website's Hain warning on powers referendum.
After YouGov showing that 63% want a referendum on more powers for the Welsh Assembly (who also want one by May 2011), the ex-Liberal apostate and Cnut impersonator "whose approval is required for a referendum, warns any vote within the next two years would be lost".
As PC's Elin Jones said "he must explain why people in Wales are less capable than the Scots of creating laws in the interests of their nation".
I suppose we should be glad that another of Duff Gordon's viceroys is doing his bit to maximise the SNP/PC bloc come the general election.
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I thought that was what we paid him for?
I guess the only time Scotlands voice gets heard all the way down in Westmonster is when we shout. A vote for the SNP is to give Scotland a voice... let them dance to a Scottish Jig!
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PS to my #102
With all mention of Mr G's reshuffle having slipped quietly and appropriately from this website's main Scotland politics page and the unlinked and unloved Labour front bench at-a-glance still festering in its antiquity, I'm prompted to mention the glencambliness of the page itself.
The version currently viewing shows that it was "last updated at 12:39 GMT, Thursday, 29 October 2009" and by reading every word on it, there are no clues at all concerning which party is in government in Scotland at all. The key "guides" section at the bottom simply shows:
POLITICAL GUIDES
► Cabinet and ministers at-a-glance
► Tory front bench at-a-glance
► Lib Dem front bench at-a-glance
How strange that the by-election article linked to at the top of the page gives its related links in the order:
● Labour starts by-election bid
● Tories start by-election bid
● SNP launches by-election bid
In conjunction with the "main parties" being listed as "Labour, the Tories, the SNP and Lib Dems" on the main Nominations close in by-election article, a newcomer to the site might be forgiven for thinking that "Labour" must form the "Cabinet" and that perhaps the SNP don't have a "front bench" worth the name.
Geeks like us posting here will know it's the exact opposite of reality of course, but nonethelss a very glencambly page.
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This must be the longest headline on record.
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For anybody interested:
Nick Griffin bottles it.
Mr Griffin, we had been informed, would be arriving in Springburn at noon to campaign for the British National Party ahead of the Glasgow North East by-election on 12 November.
At 1:30pm, it was confirmed he would not be coming at all.
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Dave's Part is a far-left London blogger
http://www.davidosler.com/2009/10/glasgow_north_east_multiple_pi.html
I found this intriguing (emphasis is mine).
"As a London-based Labour Party member, I naturally urge readers to rally round Labour candidate Willie Bain. But if I lived in Scotland, I would be in the SSP instead, and I will be watching out to see how well Kevin McVey does."
Says a lot about he sees politics in his North British branch.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Wheels come off Labour road-show - Labour by-election candidate highlights SNP house building success
Since 2007, under the SNP Government, 3241 properties have been started by housing associations in Glasgow – more than in any other 2 year period.
And in 2008-09, 1898 approvals were granted in Glasgow through the affordable housing investment programme funded by the Scottish Government. A further 400 new homes were announced earlier this month.
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Report shows SNP success in tackling Glasgow deprivation:
Kerr champions SNP action against poverty
The SNP have made inroads in tackling deprivation in Glasgow according to the latest edition of the Scottish Index of Multiple Deprivation published today (Thursday).
The number of deprived areas in Glasgow has fallen 4.5% since the SNP came to power, with the largest improvement, a fall of 12% taking place in the Springburn area of Glasgow North East.
Scottish Index of Multiple Deprivation
The SNP have got what it takes.
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