Throw your hands in the air
Hands up those who believe that the SNP will deliver on their manifesto pledge to reduce class sizes in Primary 1, 2 and 3 to 18 pupils or fewer.
Ok, OK, let's try another tack. Hands up those who believe this was a misguided or undeliverable policy in the first place.
Fine, hands down. Now hands up those who feel that the Scottish Government is making a gallant effort to trim class sizes - and that today's move to enforce a legal cap of 25 in P1 is part of that.
Ministers say the cap will give legal protection to those councils facing troublesome placing requests which threaten to undermine class size targets. They say they're moving towards their target, not running from it.
Opposition critics say it's a hideously embarrassing climbdown which proves that the manifesto promise was a con in the first place.
It's a legitimate controversy, a decent row. Welcome to those who want to add to it by responding to this blog.
Me, I'm intrigued by a wider question. Public spending in the period ahead is going to be tight, really tight.
Fragile recovery
We may be about to witness "savage cuts" (copyright, Nick Clegg) in the comprehensive spending round which will begin from 2011.
Yes, there are signs of extremely fragile recovery in the economy. But the tentative end to the recession will not obviate the necessity to reduce the huge level of accumulated government debt.
That means cuts in spending or increases in taxation or probably both. That isn't politics. It's arithmetic.
So just when is the political debate in Scotland really going to engage with that?
When is it going to focus upon serious constraint in spending rather than controversies over whether a particular sweetie has been delivered in a quarter pound or half pound bag?
To be fair to John Swinney, his most recent draft budget featured cuts in some programmes, most contentiously the Glasgow Airport Rail Link.
However, he was dealing with existing, historical spending patterns. Party manifestos for the next Holyrood election in 2011 will have to be predicated upon sharply reduced spending levels, certainly in real terms, quite possibly in cash terms.
Excise waste
The debate at Westminster has now, finally, moved from competitive spending offers to a faintly macho contest as to who is the toughest in delivering potential constraint.
Hence the Tory insistence that they will promise real cuts. Hence Nick Clegg's savagery. Hence Gordon Brown's carefully modulated promise to excise waste and cut certain programmes.
By the very nature of devolved politics, where Holyrood's budget is dependent on Westminster, the debate in Scotland is subordinate.
It inevitably lags behind the Westminster controversy. That is not partisan politics. That is the Scotland Act 1998.
But, sooner or later, the debate at Holyrood is going to have to change too.
At a conference in Edinburgh today, Alex Salmond said that Holyrood needed to make the "transition from a lobbying culture to a determining culture".
Mr Salmond was making the case for the Scottish Government and Parliament to play a real role in, for example, the upcoming global climate summit in Copenhagen.
Enhanced powers
But his remarks work just as well in the context of spending decisions.
The Scottish Parliament may not presently have full powers. That debate is, of course, at the core of politics in Scotland.
However, Holyrood is already a spending polity. It makes choices, admittedly within a largely fixed budget.
Over the medium to long term, there is a debate to be had over the wisdom or otherwise of altering the means of settling that budget: enhanced tax powers, full independence.
In the short term, at the next Holyrood election, there will be another choice.
What can Scotland afford to spend? On class sizes, on hospitals, on transport, on fighting crime.
I'm 
© MMX~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~23~RS~)
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Brian
I think the debate will have to be deeper than more hospitals = less roads. We probably need to make choices about what we can do collectively better than doing it alone or even, to plagiarise JFK, think not of what your Government can do for you but of what you can do for yourself.
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Brian,
"Over the medium to long term, there is a debate to be had over the wisdom or otherwise of altering the means of settling that budget: enhanced tax powers, full independence.
In the short term, at the next Holyrood election, there will be another choice."
But in the even shorter term there will probably be a general election. As you imply but do not say, even if every one of the 59 MPs elected hangs on your and our very lips there will almost certainly be a majority of English MPs against.
It's for that reason that the polity of Scotland remains the key issue, despite attempts by the unionist parties to delay even Calman, let alone a referendum.
Post or reactive moderation for all except CBeebies, please!
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What a sad state of affairs Brian, when all the major parties are now locked into who can deliver the biggest cuts.
Of course it's pie in the sky gerrymandering from the Nats to pledge on reducing the number of pupils per class.
And further to the cuts crisis, what's even more worrying is that Mr Swinney is the catalyst that fired the first shot in the cuts war.
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Good blog, Brian. You have put over the points that have to be addressed without any obvious politcal leanings on your part whatsoever. I'm beginning to think that you have slowly changed your mind about the current Holyrood government. I suspect that you thought they might have been a joke in government, and your earlier blogs reflected that presumed view. However, you seem to have shifted your stance and seem to be giving the SNP a fair crack of the whip. I admire you for your honesty, in that respect.
Back to the blog, there is no doubt that future Scottish budgets (within the UK) is going to have to be one of cuts and belt tightening. The SNP have found themselves in a tricky situation. Their pre-election promises will have to curtailed to fit the current financial situation. Anything else will be financial mismanagement (probably nowhere near the scale brought about by Brown's fiscal mismanagement) which will not go down well with voters of whatever political persuasion. However, the SNP have already shown that when the dirt hits the fan (Al-Megrahi) they can take the hard decisions. It is going to be very interesting to see how the SNP manage to get out of this one alive, without going abroad to borrow the money. there will have to be cuts and it will have to be on the non essential services. Some long held beliefs will have to sacrificed for fiscal prudence (hopefully not of the Brown type of prudence) as the long term financial stability is more important that short term political gains.
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The "25 Cap" is a step in the right direction.
The initial goal was and is science fiction, and should have been ridiculed from the outset.
As matters stand, the 25 Cap is probably unachievable.
If education gets the baw-bees to fund this goal, what part of the national budget is going to suffer ?
I mean what part of the budget is going to suffer, AFTER the savage cuts that are inevitably round the corner have been made.
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Well Brian, you are correct, the way this is being played out could be the same for the others that you quoted. I would go as far as to say that the end game of Scottish politics - full fiscal autonomy OR independence however could not be included in your list
I would suggest that full fiscal autonomy is but the next step along the line TO Independence .
Independence will not happen until we have had a period of "real /actual " full fiscal autonomy, as opposed to the tiny wee pretendy calman commission version.
anyone who thinks we can move from where we are now to full Independence in one fowl swoop is but kidding themselves on!
I am not saying it will take long but there is a fair few obstacles to be overcome and we still don't know what dirty tricks Cameron will fling in to the mix.
One step at a time, is the way to go, better to make some improvement than none!
If you aim for the moon and fail, at least you will land amongst the stars.
Sid
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Just for the record, I put my hand up for the "moving towards target" response.
In UK terms I currently feel a deck officer on the titanic, hearing the captain (owner?) ordering full steam ahead when I have knowledge of icebergs in the vicinity. Maybe (to draw the analogy out a bit) I don't know how many icebergs, but I definately feel a chill in the air.
It is fairly obvious to me that nothing is going to change this side of a general election, as labour have put all their chips on one colour (to start another analogy), and are just waiting for the ball to drop. They need the ball to drop on their colour just to break even.
Will this inertia damage the UK? I suspect so. As how can we respond to any changing world circumstances when those currently charged with the change have to maintain the appearance of a steady hand on the tiller. My suspicion is that they are not adept enough to confidently steer us through the recession without giving the impression of sawing the tiller back and forwards in a frantic responce to the tides and currents (AND more importantly they know this) so the only course they can take is a straight one. It probably all stems from the fact that the civil service has been so politicised in the last 30 years that the people who would have steered us safely have been replaced by political placemen (or placewomen) who are only good at leaking or soundbites.
John
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~1 clapper
" I think the debate will have to be deeper than more hospitals = less roads. We probably need to make choices about what we can do collectively better than doing it alone or even, to plagiarise JFK, think not of what your Government can do for you but of what you can do for yourself"
That about the worst post I've seen for some time.
Plagiarise? why didn't you just stick to the script and say economic plague.
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The Scottish Governemnt is repeating a very expensive mistake made by both major parties in Westminster (and by the governemnts of many other countries).
Sad to say, reducing class sizes has very little effect on how educated the children become. The most important factor is quality of teaching (and very good teachers tend ot attract classes that are bigger than average). Study after study in country after country has come to the same conclusion.
Scotland has a long-standing reputation for producing excellent teachers. That is the comparative advantage that the Scottish Education Department needs to build on.
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You're getting there Brian - see what happens when you send Glen faraway.
The spending problem can be solved at a stroke by removing westminster. No more Trident, NHS computers, MOD computers, House of lords,I.D. cards BBC dishonesty (lying by omission),illegal warmongering and other labour backed scams. I do hope we can get out of paying for the London Olympics - as Scotland will receive very little, if any benefit.
I think from the above it is obvious that an independent Scotland will have more than enough income.
How's this for an election slogan :
Scotland : Loaded but lied to.
Works for me.
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We should welcome the reduction on the maximum size of classes for those starting school. Over years to come that will flow through the age groups. Thank goodness that after years of neglect by unionist politicians, the SNP is improving our education system.
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Brian when you say "Over the medium to long term, there is a debate to be had over the wisdom or otherwise of altering the means of settling that budget: enhanced tax powers, full independence" you hit the nail on the head.
For those who think that the tory government post 2010 will create a backlash which will favour the SNP, think again.
This would dictate my party being seen once again through an anti-scottish prism. This logic however ignores the realities of a Cameron regime.
First what we know on the record now:
Cameron welcomes Calman, this means he is actively considering further devolution to Scotland as part of the constitutional settlement he will initiate.
Result: if Cameron does promote further devolution to Holyrood this kills off more or less any argument that the party would create a backlash to favour the SNP. What party can be anti-Scottish while enhancing the Scottish parliaments powers? (rhetorical question! No cheeky replies please)
What I think will soon become public knowledge:
Cameron will offer Scotland actual fiscal powers at Holyrood- in return for a cut in the Scottish block grant. This way he cuts the block grant (plays well in England) and enhances Scottish independent decision making (popular in Scotland).
Fiscal autonomy, or something just short of it could become official tory party policy in regards to dealing with Scotland.
Myths to be quashed:
I also wish to destroy myths going around on this blog by those who ought to know better:
1. Forsyths ghost isnt coming back, this is nonsense. Utter drivel.
2. The Tories are not an anti-Scottish party, and any suggestions to the contrary (giggler/derek- whatever your real name)
Dean the (most leftwing) tory (you will ever meet again)
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The class size policy was not universally popular in practice anyway. Parents want their kids to go to their preferred school, regardless of class sizes in P1- which go up to 30 in P2 or end up as composite classes thereafter.
Less popular schools can go to 18 if that is practical or viable.
Did people really vote in 2007 on the basis of manifesto pledges? I thought they simply voted out the Labour "Executive" in favour of a moderate SNP minority government whose policies are constrained by the other parties in the chamber.
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Brian said:
...."That means cuts in spending or increases in taxation or probably both. That isn't politics. It's arithmetic.
So just when is the political debate in Scotland really going to engage with that?"
Because the opposition are on the back foot and the SNP are on the ascendant, the opposition and the media will ensure that the debate will always focus on the politics rather than the financial constraints.
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What a nice, unpartisan way to start the blog, Brian. Not even a hint of anti-SNP bias there. Pfft! We'll leave that aside for now, though.
Tavish Scott claims the SNP's planned referendum is coming at the wrong time, and that we should be focussed completely on the economy. But as you highlight, what we currently have is merely a means of tinkering with the figures. Surely he should be getting behind plans to give greater fiscal autonomy to the Scottish Parliament, since our economy is otherwise completely dependent on the UK economy as a whole? After all, no matter how well our economy is performing, the size of our parliamentary budget is at the mercy of the UK economy as a whole.
If Scottish Labour is so concerned about the GARL project being canned, then perhaps they would welcome the Scottish Parliament receiving borrowing powers? Thought not. Too blinkered, too constrained by their parent party.
These politicians need to grow up and get with the programme. They just don't understand how short-sighted and petty their positions are. The current situation just isn't good enough - full fiscal autonomy is the only way. Come on Tavish Scott, let's have the Scottish people democratically deciding their future.
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Good blog post Brian.
So, it seems to me you are saying that it is becoming more apparent that a referendum on our future is dealing with the recession/financial-crisis/economy/whatever-the-unionists-want-to-call-the-BIG-excuse, and that will need to be addressed medium-long term, via a referendum.
Short term is very tricky - and a position no other party is in - the SNP have to plan a single spending programme (with no control over the purse strings) that can accomodate the budgetary policies which will definitely come form another party/s (Conservative, Labour, or hung? UK parliament), or one for each scenario, while at the same time trying to put forward their own policies.
Roll on the referendum...
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To be fair the policy about class sizes has had success and failure both at the same time. It was reported that 50 percent of councils have not made progress towards the target, so the other 50 percent have made progress towards the target (of course, this was not mentioned in the report).
The Scottish Government have allowed flexibility for councils on the way money is spent, so the main issue I have with the class sizes policy is the impression it can be done in the first four years of the SNP administration.
Although the opposition will seize upon this and brand it an SNP con, failure etc a reasonable person will be able to look at the restraints of our Scottish Government and take note of her successes.
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#3 giggletheloneranger
I've been honest that I thought the SNP suggestion of infant classes to 18 wasn't wise. You have constantly ignored the fact that Labour's manifesto to cut P1-7 class sizes to 20 was even more foolish.
Party hacks are usually so biased that they simply ignore inconvenient facts - you are a particularly bad example of this.
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This entire thread is only of relevance if we can trust any politician, and this website's new Aide quits over attorney general shows us, astonishingly, a NuLab MP we can possibly trust - Wirral West's Stephen Hesford - together with a PM who has surely lost his moral compass down the back of the sofa behind which he was hid.
Duff Gordon is directly quoted as saying: "I take this very seriously indeed, but when you look at the facts of the case, she has been misled by an employee who has given her wrong information"
This, of course, is from the "leader" of a government who, with the help of the fragrant Baroness, ramrodded through Westmidden the very law which puts the responsibility and burden of proof on the employer of illegal workers and which the august lady chose to break.
Of course, with his seat vulnerable to a 1.33% swing from the Tories, Mr Hesford may be attempting to curry favour in the legal profession in anticipation of being given the order of the boot by his electorate next.
Post or reactive moderation for all except CBeebies, please!
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#9 Diversities
Actually the research on class size is pretty weak as none of it has matched the samples of children in small and large classes. What research has demonstrated, however, is that there is significant benefit from more individual attention in the early years. Hence the SNP (and LD) policy of concentrating resources in Infant classes made sense - as opposed to Labour's across the board reductions.
I have no idea where you find any evidence that "very good teachers tend ot attract classes that are bigger than average". I have no knowledge of any system which allows parents to choose which Primary teacher their child should have. This sounds like an uninformed assertion to me.
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Ah cuts. A mere typo away from disaster I always think.
Anyhow, hands up those who believe that as Glen Campbell's effective boss, Brian would have cut Glen down to size long before now if his blatant partiality had been towards the SNP instead of Labour?
Just asking.
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"To be fair to John Swinney,..."
Ah, irony!
To be fair, that is, after spending the best part of a week vilifying and castigating the Finance Secretary for his plans.
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#8, derek wrote:
"That about the worst post I've seen for some time."
Right back at you, dude!
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Given his apparent admiration for the "Heigh-Ho" tradition, which of the seven dwarves best sums up derekbarker?
Happy?
No; he enjoys a good moan too much.
Bashful?
I think not.
Grumpy?
Close.
Dopey.
That's the one!!!!
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3. giggletheloneranger
"Of course it's pie in the sky gerrymandering" eh!?! "from the Nats to pledge on reducing the number of pupils per class."
"And further to the cuts crisis" lol! 'cuts crisis'! ", what's even more worrying is that Mr Swinney is the catalyst" eh!?! "that fired the first shot in the cuts war. " wtf! the cuts crisis has escalated already!!! - Won't someone think of the children!
What a haver !
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PS to my #19
The ever-reliable Wikipedia informs us that, before entering the House of Cards, Mr Hesford "worked as a criminal law barrister in Altrincham, Cheshire" and is currently 52 years old.
I wonder what his post parliamentary plans are and who he might need to be seen as squeaky clean by?
Post or reactive moderation for all except CBeebies, please!
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12. deanthetory
"I also wish to destroy myths"
I appreciate your motivation and sentiment, but you can't destroy myths.
The best you can do is to prove they aren't true.
For Forsyth you'd have to demonstrate how it'd be impossible for him to influence (or represent the influence) on your party that people are concerned about.
For not being anti-scottish, you'd have to have a catalogue of things done which enhanced the lives in the eyes of a significant number of scottish people - the more things, the stronger your case.
Time and opportunity to act are what is required - i'm afraid most people can't simply be told that the conservatives are good for Scotland
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Given the time delay for moderation this afternoon, it would appear that Nick Clegg's speech did have at least some [BBC] viewers/listeners.
Being PAID to listen to Clegg (with a supervisor waving a P45 in your direction whenever you dare to turn away)?
Oh, the horror!
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@12, deanthetory signed as:
"Dean the (most leftwing) tory (you will ever meet"
Within Conservative ranks, is 'leftwing' still a euphemism for 'WET' (as in: 'a bit of a drip')?
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I suspect it's not the number of kids in the class that matters, it's the standard of teaching. When I went to primary more than sixty years ago, there were on average about 35 kids in each primary class and I do not remember any of these kids leaving primary school who were not literate.In addition, we had at least two sessions of gym per week and at least one afternoon of football ( netball for the girls ). These sports sessions were taken by the teacher, not by a dedicated gym teacher and not on his own time, in school time, though he did referee and supervise the matches on Saturdays or whenever voluntarily, but then teaching was his life, not a route to easy money and long holidays.
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Until Scottish politicians at Holyrood can make the tough decisions on the economic future of the country, do not expect them to engage in grown-up debates on the financial future of the country.
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12. Oil money....
Shall I hold my breath, Dean? True fiscal autonomy? I thought not.
Scotland not being forced to support Tridents and foreign wars? True fiscal autonomy? Nope. Cold day in hell.
*nods*
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Manifesto pledges are NOT promises, but wish-lists.
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first it was 18 per class. now its to be 25. my niece at school in dundee has 31 in her class. so what happens, 6 bairns have to leave? there must be a lot of schools in the same situation. what do they do. refuse to take once they have 25 per class? what is the point in making a law without the funds to back it up? the snp got themselves into this chaos through shooting of their mouths without thinking of the reality. it was all about just getting votes. they will promise anything.
as usual, the nationalist bloggers here will waffle about anything but the issue.
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"That isn't politics. It's arithmetic."
And we all know how reliable Brian's [reporting of] arithmetic is, don't we?
Division by zero, anyone?
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
#33. At 5:10pm on 23 Sep 2009, O.B.F.U. wrote:
Manifesto pledges are NOT promises, but wish-lists.
Quite true and the idea that any party is elected whether to a majority or minority government because of manifesto pledges is fairly laughable. The fact that they can't reach it is hardly likely to be a big issue with voters, any more than that Labour didn't reach an even more "pie in the sky" education goal was why THEY lost power in Scotland.
What voters tend to look at is do they feel the party and the individual candidate is working toward the good of the country? Most voters are well aware there are external constraints and acting as though voters are so stupid that they can't figure that out does no party any good.
Really, it's all politicking as per usual. Making or trying to make talking points for coming elections. In a few days, they'll agree on something and pass a budget. Now, there are issues that aren't being looked at (at least by certain parties) such as that a "government" that has no real financial control has its hands tied. *shrug*
Elephant--living room--ignore. The opposition pretends that fiscal autonomy/independence has nothing to do with finances and handling the recession. Everyone knows that it does, but they stuff their fingers in their ears and chant: Lalala No referendum. We can't heaaar you.
And sorry, Dean, but I still don't think the Tories get a thing electorally by catering to Scotland except making the Home Counties mad where their base is. To make a real difference, they'd have to give actual fiscal autonomy--not the joke that Calman was. We'll let you have half the income taxes, no oil money, limited borrowing power and you're supposed to thank us and kiss our rings. Ha!
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#24BOUF
Hee Hee
Seven Dwarfs all in the bath feeling happy'
Happy got up and left'
So they all felt grumpy.
Bouf you bounder! Hi Ho silver away.
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By the by, you sent Gordon Brown over here in order to give us the spectacle of our president avoiding him while Mr. Brown receives a "savior of the world" award from BONO and the man who gave us Vietnam atrocities and dictatorships in South America--the much honored Henry Kissinger!!
Please take Mr. Brown back now. He's giving me indigestion.
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BBC Scotland laying it on thick on their "news" programme this evening. Not a mention of the relatives of the Lockerbie disaster on the National news but milked for all it's worth by oor Glenn on the Scottish news.
Surprising that the Scottish Parliament's statement about the dearth of Scottish-made programmes on BBC Scotland (broken promises) got a mention on the news, but only just! I would like to have heard more details about what the complaint was, but that will be it I am sure, buried by the Beeb. If they had put as much effort into reporting the facts on this as they have on the Megrahi affair, or the number of pupils in classrooms.........!
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i'm a bit unsure about this one.
one one hand the scottish government are at least trying to reduce class sizes, but legally.
however, schools cannot legally turn away a pupil.
so what happens when a school is over-subscribed?
or is there something in the small print?
looks as if not enough thought has been put into this i'm afraid.
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Hmmmm I apparently annoyed someone by pointing out quite truthfully that the good Mr. Campbell blatantly misled readers in the "Diary" entry. Now apparently he's taking advantage of the grief of one poor family by making political use of it. It's sad that the poor people can't get past their grief. You have to truly feel for them and using them politically is LOW.
I don't see him giving the same attention to the families who think al-Magrahi was innocent. I wonder why that is?
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I see that the labour government are about to invent another tax called: tax on landlines. This is just another way to hurt those who are already paying tax (VAT) in line rentals, and now we have a former BBC controller saying that we should pay for BBC IPlayer. Correct me if I am wrong but I thought that we had already paid for it in our TV licence.
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Strange happenings over on NR's blog. His latest was closed for comments after less trhan half an hour and only 4 comments posted.
I've noticed much more aggressive moding there too compared with the other political sites.
A UK election sooner than expected, do you think?
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41. At 7:17pm on 23 Sep 2009, barbarian9 wrote:
i'm a bit unsure about this one.
one one hand the scottish government are at least trying to reduce class sizes, but legally. however, schools cannot legally turn away a pupil.
If I'm reading the small print correctly, they need legislation in order to be able to turn away a pupil and this would allow them to do that.
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And I will repeat what I said. Moderate it all you like.
The EXACT conversation was this:
QUESTION: Glenn Campbell from the BBC: Has the United States forgiven the Scottish Government for releasing the man convicted of the Lockerbie bombing?
MR. KELLY (US State Department spokesman): Well, our views on that issue, of course, are extremely well known. Again, we’ve passed these views both in private channels and in – also publicly. I think just about everything that we have said to the governments in London and Edinburgh through diplomatic channels have mirrored what we’ve said publicly. I don’t think it’s a matter of forgiving anybody. I think all along, we recognized that Mr. MacAskill had the right to do what he did. We objected extremely strenuously at many different levels and in many different channels to the release of Mr. Megrahi. I think at this point, we’re looking to move on.
In his internet diary, Mr. Campbell represented that most of that conversation did not take place. In effect, he lied. I complained to the BBC about this misrepresentation and I continue to complain.
What Mr. Kelly said was that MacAskill had the right to make the decision he made and that THERE WAS NOTHING TO FORGIVE.
This was obviously NOT what Mr. Campbell wanted to hear so he pretends it was never said. This is lying.
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And the BBC should stop lying about the position of the US government. They wanted to talk about it enough when they thought they could beat the SNP over the head with it.
As an American, I VERY MUCH resent this action on the part of a foreign state-supported news organization.
BBC and Brian Taylor AND Glenn Campbell, it is time to stop skewing the news and tell the whole truth--not just the part that suits a particular political agenda.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
224 on the previous thread - the lone stranger has his cover blown. I wonder how he/she will reincarnate?
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#44. At 7:28pm on 23 Sep 2009, oldnat wrote:
Strange happenings over on NR's blog. His latest was closed for comments after less trhan half an hour and only 4 comments posted.
I've noticed much more aggressive moding there too compared with the other political sites.
A UK election sooner than expected, do you think?
There is something beyond odd about a blog that doesn't want comments. I've noticed before that is the case there.
How soon would it be possible for there to be a UK election? Everything I've read at sites like politicalbetting seem to indicate an early election is pretty unlikely. Wouldn't Mr. Brown have to agree? Is it likely he would agree to something that would put him out of office early?
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#4, oldnat wrote:
"Strange happenings over on NR's blog. "
I'm afraid I've given up on Newslog, where debate among contributors is actively stifled.
If each and every post (even the 987th) does not specifically and solely address the pontifications from on high of Nick "KCMG" Robinson, then it risks being decried as "off-topic."
Pity help 'Blether with Brian' if similar stringency was applied here; we'd be lucky to get more than a dozen or so valid comments per posting...
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Kenstor:
#34.
"first it was 18 per class. now its to be 25. my niece at school in dundee has 31 in her class. so what happens, 6 bairns have to leave? there must be a lot of schools in the same situation. what do they do. refuse to take once they have 25 per class? what is the point in making a law without the funds to back it up? the snp got themselves into this chaos through shooting of their mouths without thinking of the reality. it was all about just getting votes. they will promise anything.
as usual, the nationalist bloggers here will waffle about anything but the issue."
It appears you do not fully understand the workings of the situation. The law explains that class sizes must not go past 33 pupils, the Scottish Government are prepared to change the law from 33 to 25, but are still going forward to miminise class sizes to 18 (for primary 1, 2 and 3's only).
I understand that at the moment some class sizes are past the 18 and indeed 25 pupils per class mark (keep it mind the SNP policy is to limit primary classes 1 to 3, but nothing more!). The easiest solution would be to simply stop that school from adding pupils into the class sizes that already go past the legally allowed amount of pupils.
Again, you go on quite a feirce attack on the Scottish National Party and her supporters without the understanding of the situation. I am embarressed for you, the Scottish Government have an agreement which allows councils more authority how money is spent so long as Governments policies are followed.
It creates a situation where councils do not spend money on class sizes as each area has greater problems that must be tackled. Also councils progress on the issue of class sizes are very different speeds.
There you have a very balanced comment which helps to explain the situation to you.
I don;t expect a reply however, who would when they demonstrated that they are not aware of the facts already?
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My #51 was supposed to refer to oldnat's #44 (not as posted).
--
"KCMG" = "Kindly Call Me God" (Sir Humphrey Appleby)
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#47 JRMacClure
The problem is the age old one of: "Who will guard the guards?"
As a QuANGO, the BBC have no effective regulator. Even if they did, it would be a UK government appointed one and unlikely to be sympathetic to the Scottish government's woes now that the UK governing party no longer forms a part of the Scottish government.
NuLab's botched asymmetric devolution really is a textbook example of how not to share power in a multinational state, arguably matched only by Spain.
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By the way, since they never accept comments over there (someone might say something inconvenient to the BBC view, one supposes) I'll say it here.
The president of the US does NOT have to be born in the US. It happens president Obama was, but that isn't what our constitution says. It's the stupidest misreading of the constitution. I'll quote our constitution for your delectation:
No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President...
My dears, you do not have to be born within the US borders to be a "natural born Citizen". I wasn't. It happens I was born in your fair climes--to American citizens. Hence, I was a natural born citizen of the United States. Mr. Obama's mother was a citizen and hence he was a "natural born" citizen.
Amusingly enough, most people who go on about this consider themselves "strict constructionists" who want strict interpretation of the constitution and yet aren't able to understand rather basic tenets of it. Off-topic if the mods want to remove it but this is SUCH a silly issue and I do get tired of hearing about it.
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#53
Well God, is there going to be a snap elections?.
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#49. Hey now, just because giggles is a foreigner and doesn't know how to spell Scottish names doesn't make him a bad person. The fact that his behavior is trollish...
Well, I wouldn't want to make personal attacks on him now would I. ;-)
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#44 oldnat
Agreed it's very odd that people have less and less time to comment or refute accusations on the NR threads, but look on the bright side. Surely you don't want evening mod times back to the 3 hrs+ they were this before NR's draconian guillotine policy took hold. While there were 2 NR threads open this afternoon, mod times were 2½ hrs+, which is hardly conducive to repartee.
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I dont think that you are asking the correct question today. I think that we would all like to know why the BBC (supposedly imparcial) still thinks that a Scottish Potlical report should automatically equal SNP bashing. I note that again we are reading that 1 woman in America thinks Scotland was wrong to release the bomber of pan am 103. Cant the beeb see that the Snp government has shown remarkable humanity in this matter and should be given a standing ovation and not repeatidly bashed by the bbc and crap labour etal! The big question is how much are the Labour party going to raise the tv licence after the beeb continualy do there dirty work!
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#58 Brownedov
Oh indeed! Still it strikes me that there is a very heavy handed approach over there, now as opposed to quite recently. Suggests some interference from somewhere.
The September Populus poll has Brown with terrible ratings - this from UK Polling Report
"Leader image. These figures were uniformly hideous for Gordon Brown. To be honest, reading through them I started to feel sorry for the man – it’s getting to the point where asking questions about how the public sees Gordon Brown feels like kicking an ailing puppy. He had a negative net rating on every single measure. His highest rating was actually being “likeable” where his negative score was only minus 16. After that was substantial, where his score was minus 21."
Then there's his answers to the New Statesman on would he lead Labour at the next election -
http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/mehdi-hasan/2009/09/labour-party-election-prime
"Why did the Prime Minister not give that explicit, "cast-iron" guarantee that we asked for - on whether he would lead Labour into the general election next year?
When asked whether he would stand aside for a better candidate, why did the PM answer: "That's not the issue at the moment"? "
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Many of the earlier comments are correct.
It's not the class size,it's the quality of the teaching and the
behaviour of the children.
Coming from classes of 48, yes 48 but behaviour was generally good.
Why can't the young unemployed teachers be used to help the
class teachers. An additional teacher might provide extra support
to say 2 to 5 classes,helping and guiding the bright,the slow and
the disinterested !!!
Time to end the numbers game,and one size fits all !!!
BE CREATIVE !
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45. JRMacClure
"If I'm reading the small print correctly, they need legislation in order to be able to turn away a pupil and this would allow them to do that."
That was my understanding too, but i'd be grateful if anyone could confirm or refute it.
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#55, JRMacClure
Given the US Constitution's reference to "natural born" US citizens, does that mean someone born by Caesarian section would be barred from the presidency?
(A bit like Macduff being "not of woman born" in Shakespeare's Scottish play.)
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#61, spinspamspun
Of course, it is the quality of the teaching which counts.
But in an age of league tables, etc., qualitative measures have little place: so much easier to do a class headcount than to actually assess the quality of the teaching.
And who would assess the assessors' ability to assess?
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Apart from Gordon's personal ratings, over at Labour List they were commenting on a Guardian article that a poll shows only 14% of Labour voters now trust the present Government....
Brian you are now coming to the moot point that without control over where and how the pennies are collected any attack by Tavish the Libmentalist or Elmer Fudd is doomed as all Wee Eck has to do is simply point out how well they are running Scotland's Piggy Bank even though Westminster are giving them 3% less pocket money year on year in real terms. Then there is the waste of Holyrood money on Edinburgh's toy tram set that the Unionists bought in a tantrum to show how 'hard' they were to be considered.
I think you originally pointed out a year or so back that the real term cut in the annual Scottish pocket money by Westminster combined with Calman was going to come back to haunt the Unionist Parties at Holyrood.
You may not be able to do your sums but that does not stop you from being prescient. (-:
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I know I can be slow on the uptake but it has just occurred to me that Glenn Campbell is actually in America.
Why?
Does Nick Robinson need his company?
How many other bits of BBBC flotsam and jetsam are floating about NY and Washington and why?
And why are we paying for some presenter to tell us that Scotland is in US bad books, when in fact they could'nt give a monkeys?
We have to be daft to be paying to be told we are too small, too weak , too stupid , too fat , too drunk , too poor etc. etc.
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i've never understood why any political party makes a huge song and dance about education before an election. it must be like health - difficult to reorganise and you will always upset someone.
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#60 oldnat
Re NR's blog, I'd feel more guilty about my views if the average standard of post there rose above giggler level.
Thanks for the New Statesman link and the heads up on the Populus poll. It's certainly looking pretty grim for Duff Gordon, and maybe no surprise that he won't promise to go down with the sinking ship, although who would offer him an "honourable" alternative is no easy guess.
On the Populus poll, the Scottish sample is tiny, as usual, but certainly offers more comfort to Aunty Bella than Mr Scott, and that was sampled more than a week ago, before Scott's latest publicity triumph. J. Arthur MacN is quite good on the LDs stirring conference - "a massive bowl of ugly" as he aptly describes it.
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#63. At 9:16pm on 23 Sep 2009, O.B.F.U. wrote:
#55, JRMacClure
Given the US Constitution's reference to "natural born" US citizens, does that mean someone born by Caesarian section would be barred from the presidency?
(A bit like Macduff being "not of woman born" in Shakespeare's Scottish play.)
Haha! That's an interesting point. I suppose now there will be people checking to see if Mr. Obama was born by Caesarian section.
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64. O.B.F.U.
"But in an age of league tables, etc., qualitative measures have little place: so much easier to do a class headcount than to actually assess the quality of the teaching."
Like hospitals and all others there is more a more resources spent in ticking the boxes to outdo others so that they can give themselves bonuses rather than concentrating on supplying the basics to all. UK plc management systems a total nonsense.
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My current girlfriend is a teacher in a primary school in west London trying to help children learn English whose first language is not English. From what she has been telling me it seems that teachers are having to arrange their teaching around the paperwork that is expected of them instead of getting down to the important task of teaching. I don't know what the system is like in Scotland as it has been so many years since I have had the pleasure of being strapped into a state where I was eventually willing to learn; those were the days.
It seems to me that the schools in some of the major cities, and I can only really speak about London here, have got themselves into the situation that there is so many non British children in our schools that the government is panicking because the standards have dropped. Of course they have dropped if a large influx of non English speaking children have joined our schools. If the new kids cannot speak English then they aren't going to be able to understand the lessons and, therefore, the school will suffer as far as school tables are concerned. So, instead of the government tackling the issue of this influx of children they have decided it would look better to the electorate if they bombarded the teachers with so much forms to fill in that they cannot get on with their primary task of educating the children. It just seems to me that the government have got this the wrong way around. Let the teachers teach and give more help to those new children who can't speak or write English. I'm sure that any normal parent would understand the sense in that approach rather than putting too much pressure and paperwork onto teachers who are overworked and underpaid. To me it seems like the government is taking the coward's way out of this.
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Isn't a "natural" child a euphimism for one born out of wedlock?
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# 72 Caledonian54
Are you referring to policemen and politicians?
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68. Brownedov
"Thanks for the New Statesman link and the heads up on the Populus poll. It's certainly looking pretty grim for Duff Gordon, and maybe no surprise that he won't promise to go down with the sinking ship, although who would offer him an "honourable" alternative is no easy guess."
He said he would like to go into teaching aghhh. I wouldn't even employ him to weed my garden let alone to leave him with the young vulnerable. He could always sign up for the single handed sail around the world that he has 'saved'.
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There's an interesting interview with "unfit for purpose" Charles Clarke in the Evening Standard's Brown should quit for his own dignity, says Clarke.
It includes: "You have a kind of joint view that it's all over. That fatalism is absolutely suicidal for Labour. What makes it worse is that a lot of people in our party aren't facing up to how serious a defeat would be. I think we would be out for 10 to 15 years and forget what it was like for progressives during the Tory years under Margaret Thatcher"
Wilde's reference to Little Nell springs to mind.
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#66 Diabloandco
Re Glen Campbell in America. Think about the cost. Lets say him, a cameraman, a soundman, a hangeron, for say five nights, business class, decent hotel, food etc, cost say an estimate of £8,000. That's equivalent to about 60 license fees. That's how many license fee payers there is likely to be on the Isle of Jura, a population of 200. So, if you live on the Isle of Jura you will be pleased to know that your license fee has been used for a wasted, politically inspired anti-SNP trip.
Freedom
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#72 Hmmmm Are you calling all American citizens "born out of wedlock"? Tsk. =)
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#74 cynicalHighlander
"He could always sign up for the single handed sail around the world that he has 'saved'."
Great idea, but we'd have to ensure he took only his moral compass with him.
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78. Brownedov
"Great idea, but we'd have to ensure he took only his moral compass with him."
You mean he might end up here.
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I think we all assumed that there was going to be severe in fighting within Labour after they lose the next GE. Looks like its started already.
http://lukeakehurst.blogspot.com/2009/09/rumours.html
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#79 cynicalHighlander
We can live in hope.
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Good grief Charlie Brown couldn't You think of an excuse 2 get the boot into the SNP, that would make a change. I noticed our good friend Gordy kickin back on his all expenses paid holidays to the USA aided and pampered by his loyal assistant known as Glen :)
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regarding the class sizes as someone mentioned before the smaller the class,, more individual attention can be paid (pupils individual learning plans)If you look at the percentage passes for final exams ,smaller schools appear to do better in alot of cases in comparison to the large comprehensives despite better facilities in some cases being available.So hopefully by starting off with smaller classes the benefits would filter down (obviously with ongoing improvements )My concern is in secondary where in an average size class,the genius is catered for ,the school arsonist at the other end of the spectrum is catered for but there is a mass of totally disenfranchised children (usually kicks in about 2nd year)ready and willing to test the patience of any teacher .As for the lack of teachers positions if you have paid into your pension and for example (i'm not a teacher) but the prediction is I will need to work until I am 68 the system is in effect being stymied.No movement ,few new posts being created and lastly, possibly if the planners thought until recently all these family homes that we've allowed to be built could we maybe have got some of these companys ( pre recession ) to contribute a bit more to the community such as a school ?
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Online Ed Here
Glenn Campbell has been joined in America by at least two other BBC Scotland reporters, Ali Hunter and David Allison.
Hunter asked the following question at the state department news conference:
What kind of welcome can Libya’s Colonel Qadhafi expect from the U.S. Government?
David Allison was the guy desperately looking for people on the New York street to condemn the release of Megrahi - of those that expressed an opinion the response was 3 in suppoort of the decision and 2 against.
Incidently, I'm in the process of recording what Campbell subsequently broadcast on Good Morning Scotland along with a full transcript of his questions and answers to Ian Kelly.
The comments from his colleague on the show (Gary Robertson) are as bad as Campbell's. I haven't yet had the pleasure of seeing Campbell wallowing in the New York protests on BBC Scotland news but can imagine his glee at yet another opportinity to promote Unionist myths.
The BBC in Scotland have gone to great expense in order to allow Campbell to travel to America in order to make unsubstantiated claims and to again air comments that have already been reported.
My belief is that the BBC in Scotland thought that the press conferebce attended by Campbell would provide them with a juicy 'American Backlash' headline, but it didn't work out.
Campbell is so bad that you honestly could not get any worse if you placed George Foulkes in front of the microphone.
Don't believe me? Than ask yourself what Foulkes would say if he was reporting from America - yep, pretty much the same thing as Glenn Campbell.
Anyway, the by-election is approaching so the agenda has turned back onto to the SNP at Holyrood. The class sizes is the first - there will be a rash of them over the next few weeks.
Can they also do a 'Global' again, let's see eh?
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71. At 9:49pm on 23 Sep 2009, gedguy2 wrote:
My current girlfriend
"current" girlfriend? better refer this to a moderator before she sees this and becomes your ex-!!
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Given the apparent 'cuts crisis' (all due credit to gogglesthelonelyranter) - why are we only trying to stimulate the economy from the (unwilling) centre out? The Bank of England's money printing scheme (aka quantative easing - ffs!) currently stands at 200 billion i think. If that money was spent in the economy it would find its way to the centre anyway but would pass through the rest of the economy on its way. The banks still haven't the bottle to really risk doing business with each other, so that newly printed fiat currency isn't really doing as much as it could. Where to spend it in the economy though? hmmm... What about forgetting about some of the savagery of our cuts?
Now, I'm clearly no economist, but what is wrong with that picture (inflation doesn't count, the money's been made and inflation'll bite at some point)?
Seriously, a critique fit for a layman won't go unappreciated, because the failure of our governments to do anything except pour our resources into someone else's bag while we pay now and our kids probably pay later is really making me cynical.
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For those of you also interested in European politics, Gavin Hewitt now has a Euroblog up and running again.
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#71
You are quite right. When I last did some teaching about four years ago I found I was spending at least of a third of my time in class filling in forms and pupil assessments and sometimes more than that.
It's a shambles.
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83. jingswhatsitallabout
"companys ( pre recession ) to contribute a bit more to the community such as a school ?"
It's a nice idea, who could make them though?
Alas, companies don't do beneficial direct contributions to communities - you are supposed to be grateful for the benefits of discredited trickle-down (voodoo) economics.
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76. At 10:24pm on 23 Sep 2009, hadrianswall wrote:
Re Glen Campbell in America. Think about the cost. Lets say him, a cameraman, a soundman, a hangeron, for say five nights, business class, decent hotel, food etc, cost say an estimate of £8,000.
Four people and five days in NY City? Double that--minimum.
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Did the BBC Scotland really send Glenn Campbell to The USA to report on the circumstances of Col Gadaffi's personal accomodation. What was the point of this? The Col put his tent up where it shouldn't be and he was moved on by the law. Do we really want to know this and how many times are BBC Scotland going to report it? All that money spent on Campbell's trip and he padding out his reports with rubbish like this. If this had been an SNP MSP wasting public money like this there would have been a committee of inquiry. Campbell always looks pretty grim. He should give us a smile now and again, just to reassure us he is pulling our leg.
Why doesn't he get down to some real political reporting and not just the angry relatives ad infinitum.
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Just heard on radio Scotland that the Pope is making a state visit to the UK next year. Murphy was then interviewed saying that he had invited him to come up to Scotland.
Fair enough if it was private invite, but not if it was supposed to be on behalf of the people of Scotland. Surely we have our own government which should be making these invites, or is murphy still trying to find something to do?. I guess at least that since the invite came from a UK government minister, then the UK government will be responsible for paying the policing bill (or will they try to palm that off on us as well).
On another news item, I notice that the Scottish government had its request to send a Scottish minister as part of the UK delegation to the forthcoming renewable energy meeting (in Denmark I think). The request was turned down (it was submitted 9 months ago) as the Scottish interests were already being represented by the UK delegation. Is that the same as our fishing interests have been represented in Europe? I'm sorry, but that does not hold water. Scotland is responsible for its own renewable energy policy, so how can another government accurately represent those interests? Scotland has recently set the most ambitious renewable energy plans in the world, and is one of the most renewable energy rich (potentially) countries in europe. I find it hard to believe that there is nothing a Scottish minister (as part of the UK delegation) could add to the discussion.
It smacks of childish politics in the extreme by a dying government.
John
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Barack Obama rebuffs Gordon Brown as 'special relationship' sinks to new low
""It is wrong for people to say that we have been relaxed about the way things have gone," the source said. "There were five attempts to set up a meeting and none have come off.""
Just a rehearsal for the GE.
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So nice to read "obviate" and see it used correctly.
Dwelling in a rural area of the United States, I have the BBC on my computer to keep in touch with the world. I'd have to pay for a second satellite connection to have t.v., so I don't.
Sometimes, US newspapers give the impression that nothing exists beyond the salt waters -- except Hawaii. And maybe Guam, and Puerto Rico.
"blether" -- what a delightful choice of words!
No government that can be affected by the voices of the people can easily choose the realistic actions of reducing spending and increasing income. That would be a mature choice, a responsible decision.
They set us private citizens a bad example, they do.
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#75 Your link to Evening Standard
I have gone off politics completely now. Once again "world statesman Bonehead Bono" gets his mug in amongst world leaders.
I will never understand how he and that other world statesman "Sting" are not now running the world. What a couple of plonkers!! Bono and Brown that is.
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#93. At 00:03am on 24 Sep 2009, cynicalHighlander wrote:
Barack Obama rebuffs Gordon Brown as 'special relationship' sinks to new low
""It is wrong for people to say that we have been relaxed about the way things have gone," the source said. "There were five attempts to set up a meeting and none have come off.""
Just a rehearsal for the GE.
Good lord they keep blithering on as though President Obama hadnt SAID he didn't like Gordon Brown well before the al-Megrahi release. He just plain doesn't like him AND is well aware he will soon be out of office. Can these people get a grip?
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#94MCSgrad
Well of all the blogs in all the world you had to come on this one.
Well pull a chair up. What will it be, Johnnie Walker!
Here's looking at you Friend. (cheers)
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A couple of points:
On Class sizes-
I entirely understand why the SNP are seeking to make classrooms of more than a particular number illegal. It is a clear attempt to get the education message on tune again after a month or several of drifing on the issue.
But is it honestly practical? Its all fair and well making in illegal- but what benefits would be derived from smaller classrooms (one) and what extra resources will be made available to enable schools to impliment the reforms neccessary (two)?
These questions need more comprehensive answers from the Nationalist executive. The first test will be thursdays questions. I fully expect Goldie to resume her focus on education, an issue she has made very much her own.
Next-- Clarke on Brown
Clarke is a long term anti-brown man. His record of the critic.
His articles are really helpful in exposing to the public just how deep this current Labour party's internal strife and divisions are.
On giggler-
I have to dispute one of your contribution one-liners:
"And further to the cuts crisis, what's even more worrying is that Mr Swinney is the catalyst that fired the first shot in the cuts war."
Did he? I was awares that the 'cuts war' began once Brown (finally) accepted that cuts need to happen, after months of pretending he'd 'invest' (by 0% was it?)...Labour, with their extremes, one day no cuts, the next telling the TUC 'we'll cut cut cut'...indecisive, perhaps more responsible for any 'cuts war' than Swinney or the SNP.
Remember that the SNP budget is merely reacting to the economic mess that Labour helped to facilitate (through too much budding up to the city, and little practical regulation- not to mention the tripartide system failure).
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#96
Would you want to be seen with Brown......I doubt it, at best he is yesterday's man or was he ever even in that category????
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#92. At 11:52pm on 23 Sep 2009, John__ wrote:
Just heard on radio Scotland that the Pope is making a state visit to the UK next year. Murphy was then interviewed saying that he had invited him to come up to Scotland.
Does he even have the right to do that? Invite a head-of-state (the pope is a head-of-state) to Scotland? The cost certainly shouldn't come out of the strained Scottish budget.
The request was turned down (it was submitted 9 months ago) as the Scottish interests were already being represented by the UK delegation. Is that the same as our fishing interests have been represented in Europe? I'm sorry, but that does not hold water. Scotland is responsible for its own renewable energy policy, so how can another government accurately represent those interests?
Yep. They have to stop these Scots getting above themselves. They might actually start thinking they have their own government to handle their own affairs.
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#97. Nice to have another American join us, MCSgrad. Ignore giggles. He won't even offer you the good stuff. I can't believe I only recently discovered Bowmore. It has now become my favorite.
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99. At 00:56am on 24 Sep 2009, Jake-the-saltire wrote:
#96
Would you want to be seen with Brown......I doubt it, at best he is yesterday's man or was he ever even in that category????
Where CAN one take GB and not end up embarrassed by the man?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K68THqDqPKc&feature=related
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101. At 01:06am on 24 Sep 2009, JRMacClure wrote:
"Nice to have another American join us"
....and here was me thinking that the great US of A had disowned us due to the Megrahi affair. At least the BBC and the rest of the media keep ramming down our throats the idea of isolation from the world. Another pariah state for the rest of the world to play politics with.
I just hope the SNP administration has the backbone to stick by their morals and continue to govern as it does despite the constraints imposed upon it.
I liked your 102 it says it all
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#102JR
Bowmore, well pilgrim, you talk the talk, can you walk the walk.
(Whiskey heaven)
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#103. At 01:31am on 24 Sep 2009, Jake-the-saltire wrote:
101. At 01:06am on 24 Sep 2009, JRMacClure wrote:
"Nice to have another American join us"
....and here was me thinking that the great US of A had disowned us due to the Megrahi affair. At least the BBC and the rest of the media keep ramming down our throats the idea of isolation from the world. Another pariah state for the rest of the world to play politics with.
*sigh* Then you haven't seen the absolute rants I have posted in regard to the biased and inaccurate coverage of this matter by the BBC. As an American, I do not appreciate their misrepresenting either what our government has said OR the attitude of the American people.
Speaking of the hysteria over this matter--someone tell me this. Can Westminster dissolve the Scottish parliament? Just curious.
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Funny. There is all this talk about independence. The SNP is increasingly popular and nears a possible majority government in the next Scottish elections. And suddenly the people of Scotland are told time after time after time that their government and people have become world pariahs--totally ignoring that this is not true. Now WHY do you suppose that is? WHAT is the purpose?
Anyone have any thoughts on this mysterious chain of events?
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JR:
105.
That's a difficult question to answer, Westminster can indeed dissolve the Scottish Parliament, but since the Scottish Parliament was supported by 75 percent of those who took part in the referendum, then could they?
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#104. At 01:34am on 24 Sep 2009, giggletheloneranger wrote:
#102JR
Bowmore, well pilgrim, you talk the talk, can you walk the walk.
(Whiskey heaven)
That all depends, my friend, on how many shots I have, but I do try for moderation.
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#107. At 01:59am on 24 Sep 2009, Thomas_Porter wrote:
JR:
105.
That's a difficult question to answer, Westminster can indeed dissolve the Scottish Parliament...
So answer me this, Thomas.
If you have a government and anytime another government wants to they can tell you, "Sorry. We've decided that's NOT your government..."
Do you have a REAL government or only a pretend one? Again, just a curious American trying to figure things out. No offense.
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#105 JRMacClure
"Can Westminster dissolve the Scottish parliament?"
The answer to that is more complex than it might appear.
The UK Parliament runs under English Constitutional Law which decrees that sovereignty lies with "the Queen in Parliament", and not the people. Theoretically, they can do anything they like (although the political consequences - like being thrown out of the Council of Europe and the EU) would be significant.
The Court of Session has previously noted that there is no reason why English Constitutional Law should be assumed to take precedence, but there has never been an occasion when it has been appropriate to challenge that in the Scottish Courts.
However, I would anticipate that such a move to overthrow a body voted for by the people of Scotland (who are sovereign in Scots Constitutional Law) would lead to London's decision being challenged in the Court of Session.
One of the really important points was when Winnie Ewing (in the chair at the opening of the Parliament) opened with the words "The Parliament of Scotland is hereby reconvened". This was more than a form ow words. It established the direct link between the 1707 Parliament and the current one, and hence the primacy of Scots Constitutional law.
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If as Thomas Porter suggests earlier that
"A reasonable person can look at the constraints of the Scottish Government"
why on earth were the SNP themselves not able to realise, whats apparently quite obvious now, that it wasn't practically in the power of the Scottish Government to make the changes they promised?
The SNP won this election by one seat, that one seat could easily be accounted for by the lies they made to the nation, and to their constituencies in order to get elected. If as someone else above really suggests, that the SNP weren't elected on their manifesto but as the party that wasn't labour then why on earth did they make all of these promises?
The SNP told the Scottish public that they would scrap student debt, they didn't.
The SNP told us they would introduce first time home-owner grants, they didn't.
The SNP told us they would recruit 1000 extra police officers, they tried to do otherwise and then had to be forced to implement it.
The SNP told us that they would reduce class sizes for P1-3s, they didn't.
The SNP promised that every child would have access to a nursery teacher, they watered down this promise.
The SNP promised to match the rate of building new schools of their predecessors, they didn't do this either.
The SNP promised something they knew they couldn't deliver to every major population group. As well as the above 'national' promises, their MSPs made a whole load of constituency specific promises that they never had any intention of following up on either.
If people on here seriously believe that the SNP would have achieved their ONE SEAT majority had they not lied to the population in all of the above ways then they are, in my humble opinion, very much delusional.
The SNP lied to get elected, they should be held to account for it.
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JRMacClure:
#109.
The Scottish Government has recently been known as, 'the Scottish Government'. It's still legally the Scottish Executive, although it's been changed unoffically because the current Government/Executive prefers Government instead of Executive.
It would be difficult to dissolve the Scottish Parliament. It was supported by many of the people, can you go against the people? It would be political suicide.
The powers of the Scottish Government/Parliament is nothing compared to the American instituations. Our Parliament relies upon money from Westminister being redistrubuted which covers some domestic services, but nothing more.
The Parliament itself was designed to, "...kill nationalism dead." so it's no suprise that the London Government refused to consider handing over real power directly back to the people of Scotland.
Is it a real Government? The name does not matter, but it lacks real power.
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#111 NCA999
"The SNP lied to get elected, they should be held to account for it"
What the Arbroath trials, the public versus the SNP
And of course the accused food bills would need moderated.
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111 NCA999
Do you know of a political party in Scotland or the world for that matter that have managed to stand by their manifesto?
The SNP run a minority government and are severly constrained by the UK opposition parties who will do anything to make life difficult for the SNP administration.
You should think about curbing your language and reconsider the use of the word "lied".
Only a fool believes all that is written in a manifesto.
The SNP got the vital seat because the electorate decided we had had enough of Labour.
There is also the small matter of the confusing voting papers where SNP votes may have been lost.
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#111. I, personally, have never known an elected government on either side of the pond that managed to keep all of their compaign pledges. The question most people ask instead is
1. Did they try to keep them--since in reality especially with a minority government it is often beyond their control.
2. Did they govern well.
3. And probably MOST important: Do I trust them?
Now if you take out the weasel words, what you said above was that the SNP DID keep some of their promises and everyone knows they tried to keep others. You also left out some other promises such as maintaining the freeze on the council tax.
The polls indicate that many Scots are happy with the SNP on the points I listed. They don't seem to be delusional or there are one heck of a lot of delusional Scots out there. (Permit me to doubt that) I'm not impressed with "politics" that is based on name calling but we'll ignore that.
If you're not satisfied with the SNP record, then I would say it is your right and duty to try to convince people to your view. Other people are likely to point out weaknesses in your arguments.
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#112 It would be difficult to dissolve the Scottish Parliament. It was supported by many of the people, can you go against the people? It would be political suicide.
It was supported by many of the people... Remind me.
Who was it who supported it? The people of the UK as a whole (how many million) or the people of Scotland (how many million again?)
Would the Home Counties give a *ahem* if Scotland's parliament was dissolved? Who would it be political suicide for except a few already out of work (in that situation) MSPs? Just wondering.
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NCA999:
#111.
I spoke of reasonable people, reasonable is something you are far from!
It's all possible for the Scottish Government to force local councils to support anything and everything it wishes. The Scottish Government afterall, controls the purse strings.
This policy could never be an overnight success and over 50 percent of local councils have progressed towards the targets set, so why have the other councils not used their funds on class sizes as was intended?
The SNP also did not plan for 500 million pounds on the Edinburgh Trams, but the opposition forced through the project for purely political purposes. Do you honestly believe with a 500 million pounds gone from the budget that the SNP could continue with their commitments?
I am fed up with your 'play ground' politics. Do you ever get tired repeating the same old nonesense? Besides I do not hear you calling for Gordon Brown to be held to account, were we not promised the end to 'boom and bust'?
Your hate towards the nationalists is disgusting. Your clearly going out your way to attack one group and one group only, your not even hiding your prejudice!
For some reason I feel it's more personal than political in which you choose to continue your hopeless attacks against the SNP administration.
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#112. Is it a real Government? The name does not matter, but it lacks real power.
True and a good point. My own humble opinion after a close look at Calman: I thought that was intended to put the Scottish Government in an even worse position while pretending to give it more power. A more dishonest piece of work, I have rarely seen. But that's from a foreigner so what do I know? :)
I'll drop the subject. Sorry for giving you a hard time.
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#111 NCA999
Have you been at JR's Bowmore? You sound hysterical.
If the SNP "lied", then so has every political party since time immemorial in every country. Let's take two recent examples. In 1999 and 2003, Labour and the LDs campaigned on what they would do if they had an overall majority. However, both knew that they were going into coalition in Government. Both dumped manifesto commitments so that they could agree a programme for Government. So, on your argument, both these parties "lied" to the electorate.
This time around, we have a minority government. They get through what they can. Just as with Labour being forced to introduce PR for LAs against their manifesto commitment, due to the realities of a multi-party chamber, and no overall majority, so with the SNP.
Its not lying from any party, but practical politics. Live with it, and vote for your preference. If they get in, they won't do everything in their manifesto, but you will get a sense of their direction from their manifestos.
If Obama doesn't get the public option for healthcare into law over here, was he "lying" as to his intention?
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JRMacClure:
#115.
I was not going to waste time replying to NCA999, but I shall explain the situation to you, but don't worry as I try to keep it balanced.
NCA999's 'arguments':
"The SNP told the Scottish public that they would scrap student debt, they didn't."
It was difficult scrap but they did successfully scrap tuition fees, which will saved students 2,000 pounds.
"The SNP told us they would introduce first time home-owner grants, they didn't."
The SNP promised 2,000 pounds for first time home buyers, but because of global issues banks started asking for deposits on average reaching 20,000 pounds.
"The SNP told us they would recruit 1000 extra police officers, they tried to do otherwise and then had to be forced to implement it."
I don't see the problem as the target has been reached early.
"The SNP told us that they would reduce class sizes for P1-3s, they didn't."
It's debatable as over 50 percent of local councils have progressed towards these targets, but as local budgets stretched already because of... well first you had the high oil prices which effected budgets and then the credit crunch and Westminster cuts, do you consider it successful that over 50 percent of councils have still managed to progress towards the target for class sizes?
"The SNP promised that every child would have access to a nursery teacher, they watered down this promise."
It still appears that something was brought forward.
"The SNP promised to match the rate of building new schools of their predecessors, they didn't do this either."
Keep in mind that the predecessors will not be the group who pays for these schools, the SNP does have a building programme in place which will be completed by the end of their term in office.
Look people like NCA999 have complained about SNP policy ever since they were elected. You had people complaining that after one month the SNP had failed to train a single police officer (it takes longer to train one of course)... so sometimes it's not worth to listen to clear anti-SNP prejudice.
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Where are you now NCA999?
Lost your tongue?
Well you managed to stir up a few responses and even oldnat got riled which is unusual
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JRMacClure:
#118.
The Calman commission is a success, coming from someone who seeks independence for the people of Scotland...
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Fun time!
http://news.scotsman.com/latestnews/scotsmancom-to-host-live-debate.5672748.jp
"DO you have a question you would like to ask the Secretary of State for Scotland?
Readers of scotsman.com will be able to put their questions to Jim Murphy in a one-hour question-and-answer debate next month.
The live text debate is the first in a series on scotsman.com that will see Scotland's top politicians put on the spot by the country's electorate.
Jim Murphy will be answering questions live on scotsman.com on October 6 from 4pm "
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Fun time!
Do you have a question you would like to ask the Secretary of State for Scotland?
Readers of scotsman.com will be able to put their questions to Jim Murphy in a one-hour question-and-answer debate next month.
The live text debate is the first in a series on scotsman.com that will see Scotland’s top politicians put on the spot by the country’s electorate.
http://news.scotsman.com/latestnews/scotsmancom-to-host-live-debate.5672748.jp
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Sorry for the double posting - net connection here is erratic.
Jake - "exasparated" maybe a better description than "riled". It's all those years of teaching, when you knew a kid could do so much better, but laziness or wilful awkward behaviour prevented them achieving their potential. NCA999 makes some reasonable points from time to time, but then s/he descends into these silly rants.
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#122. At 03:17am on 24 Sep 2009, Thomas_Porter wrote:
JRMacClure:
#118.
The Calman commission is a success, coming from someone who seeks independence for the people of Scotland...
Could you explain that to me?
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#102 JRMacClure
Guess the guy in blue was lucky
Would you shake his hand?
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http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/benedictbrogan/100011026/bit-by-bit-alex-salmond-is-getting-his-way/
"is there any reason why a Englishman should have to prove his identity to a Scots copper for the privilege of visiting Ayrshire?"
Benedict Brogan should know better! It's not the English that the polis are checking up on - it's the Tories! A dangerous breed of politicos (apart from dean, of course). :-)
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#120. Thanks. Those were close to my own thoughts but I was sure a Scot could address it better than an outside could.
119. Hey! No one touches my Bowman. Hands off!
And if Obama doesn't get the public option (which he is not likely to) he will be accused of lying by political enemies just as some political enemies accuse the SNP of lying.
Obama will have a lot less excuse since HE doesn't have a minority government. The chances of a minority government getting everything they want are pretty much nil.
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By the way, why is it again they're building more Tridents? And, uh, couldn't they use the money to build something that is actually--productive?
Will the Tridents (if they REALLY have to have them) really fall apart if they wait to build them until they--like--have the money?
Just another random thought.
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#127. At 04:09am on 24 Sep 2009, Roll_On_2010 wrote:
Ewww. I now have to wash my eyeballs.
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#119. Bowmore that is and yes, I have had a shot or two (or three) which might explain why I was giving Thomas a hard time. *grin*
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104. giggletheloneranger
"(Whiskey heaven) "
What would you know about whisky? You can't even spell it.
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My understanding is that the 4 submarines that carry Trident are designed to last up to the mid 2020’s. That is with extra design-in hardware and software updates. But the replacement order will have to be made in 2014.
My feeling is that Brown is doing a bit of empty grandstanding. He more than likely will not be in power when the decision will be made.
Unfortunately I believe that the ‘man with a plan’ will replace the existing fleet.
I say unfortunately because I believe we have other things to spend that money on, for example fighting poverty.
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#130 JRMacClure
You don't understand how clever the Brits really are! We don't build any Trident missiles. Our subs just pop over to Norfolk VA and borrow yours (if they fit).
And honest, they really are an independent deterrent because the Americans promisd that we could use our own firing codes. Everyone knows that the Americans are so dumb that they would allow someone else to fire off US missiles, and would never think to put a little gizmo in to stop them being fired unless the US approved.
Clever people the Brits!
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JRMacClure:
#126.
It's quite simple. From a nationalist point of view I can use the failings within the current, plus any other future constituational arrangement to continue to press for my own system. In this case, independence for Scotland.
The Calman commission offers powers of taxation that will never be used in Scotland. For example we can currently raise income tax by 3p in the pound, but have we ever used it? No, so why not? Has Calman offered new powers that will actually be used? Your opinion may be different but I am explaining the situation as I see it, so it's up to you really.
The lack of progress will strengthen the case for independence, especially as the power of taxation is very strange. We get control of a small part of it, so we're still very limited which will cause problems.
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Oldnat:
#135.
To an extent, although country's have control of their forces, none are actually independent. This includes the nuclear side of a country's military.
I feel that as part of NATO, our military and other members military are obliged to come to our aid once another either invades or declares war (as was the purpose of NATO).
Therefore, despite our opinions concerning the war caused by our fellow NATO member, we will automatically be fighting on their side.
Nuclear is slightly different, but the same idea. Britain could never use these missles unless American support was given. It's not that Britain has to ask, or that the Americans control these missles while we are not pretending to be a super power but who actually believes that without European or American support that Britain could act independently to that extent without Russia or China preforming their own military actions?
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#136. At 05:06am on 24 Sep 2009, Thomas_Porter wrote:
I'm sure you have a better understanding of it that I do, Thomas. Frankly, what you seem to be saying is that financing under Calman would fail, causing more problems in Scotland and eventually leading to independence. That is to some degree how devolution has worked so far so you may well be right. But having schemes that actually hurt Scotland just doesn't seem like an very good way to go about it.
I will tell you the truth. Reading the report it seemed almost intended to hurt Scotland. I couldn't see how it could POSSIBLY be a financial scheme that could actually work or how anyone would think it would work. (I could be missing something big in there that would make it work--I'm not denying that and if you say it would I'll probably take your word for it. I'm no financial expert)
Then again I thought the same about devolution.
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I would be more concerned with getting dragged into adventures like Afghanistan by joining NATO. The fact is if someone is going around invading European countries, other countries will get involved anyway if from self-defense. So is there a real advantage to being in NATO?
Ireland isn't in NATO. Are they really at a disadvantage?
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"White House officials rejected repeated requests from Britain for a formal meeting between President Barack Obama and Gordon Brown, it has emerged.
The UK prime minister's team were "frantic" after being unable to secure the talks at the UN summit in New York, a diplomatic source has told the BBC.
However, the president held private meetings with the leaders of Japan, China and Russia."
Need you know any more of what Bunglers peers think of him?
D McN
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Obama has NEVER liked Gordon Brown. He has never made any secret of it.
http://beltwaysnark.com/2009/03/06/obama-still-doesnt-like-gordon-brown/
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
By the way, you do realize that Barack Obama returned the bust of Churchill that had been given to the White House and why?
http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/politics/obamas-tortured-grandfather-casts-shadow-over-us-british-ties_100145286.html
Now I'm not saying he doesn't also dislike GB. He has publicly said that he did. But there is more to the entire story than that.
It has nothing, and I mean NOTHING, to do with al-Megrahi.
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Online Ed Here
My earlier comment has been referred??
Anyway, BBC Scotland had at least three reporters in the USA - Ali Hunter, David Allison and of course Glenn Campbell.
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JR is at war with the moderators. They insist that Glenn Campbell can't POSSIBLY have done anything wrong in leaving out chunks of an interview--I'm a BIG MEANIE for mentioning it.
"Stupid American. We'll say you Americans hate Scots if we want to. HOW DARE you deny it! And the State Department spokesman did NOT say that MacAskill had a right to do what he did and there was nothing to forgive. How DARE you say that he did!"
I'm a big fat liar for saying the State Department said that--now aren't I moderators. *rolls eyes*
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Haha! I better call it a night before I get myself banned. Amusing how SOMEONE doesn't want it mentioned what was actually SAID in that State Department interview. Heaven forfend!
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Let's see how long they let that comment stay up. It says exactly what I've been saying and they've been pulling. And you can check copies of the interview that are on the internet in various places--but NOT in Mr. Campbell's versions. Now why do ya suppose THAT is?
And Obama's dislike of Brown (and possibly of most if not all British) has nothing to do with al-Megrahi. The BBC should GET OVER IT!
Night all. I need to actually sleep tonight. ;-) It's nearly midnight in my part of the world.
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It's just possible they not like my mention of the fact (sorry, guys but this is the truth) that President Obama's grandfather was tortured by the British. You might try reading his book Dreams from My Father: A Story of Race and Inheritance in which he devotes 15 or 20 pages to the subject.
He has very obviously not forgotten that. I know mentioning the Mau Mau rebellion is a sensitive subject--but there it is.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
# 87 oldnat
Thanks for that. I'd sent an e-mail off to the BBC asking what had happened to the Euroblog and was told in the reply that it was coming soon. I'd missed arguing with Marcus the Yank and reading Alice's hilarious Russian point of view. I'll check it out when I get back tonight.
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# 149 JRMacClure
My father was out there with the Black Watch during the Mau Mau uprising. I hope it wasn't him.
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I had this one referred (# 150) so I've changed it a bit. I notice that one of the ones that I posted on the other blog of Brian's, which was moderated, has not been sent to me by the BBC in an e-mail. I wonder why?
# 85 barbarian9
Oops
# 104 giggletheloneranger
Only the Americans and Irish spell it that way. I believe RE even spelt it with an 'e'. It is now blatantly obvious that you are not a Scot. I suspect, because of your pro unionist stance and RE's strong stance, that you may be from Northern Ireland.
I'm disappointed in you Derek, I now suspect that there may be another reincarnation on the horizon. I'd have more respect for you if you just came out and said what you believed in. Sad.
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I've heard horror stories. Whether it was worse than what we did in Vietnam--I don't know. But he seems to have strong emotions about his grandfather. So... I think it may be a factor in a degree of coolness.
That is less sensational and convenient than blaming it on the SNP. I've noticed it's gotten some coverage over there but not all that much.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/africa/article5276010.ece
*sigh* I really am going back to bed. Trouble sleeping these days.
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Online Ed Here
The next comment will contain a transcript of Glenn Campbell's questions and the answers given by Ian Kelly at the recent US state department press conference.
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Online Ed Here
QUESTION:
Glenn Campbell from the BBC. Has the United States forgiven the Scottish Government for releasing the man convicted of the Lockerbie bombing?
MR. KELLY:
Well, our views on that issue, of course, are extremely well known. Again, we’ve passed these views both in private channels and in – also publicly. I think just about everything that we have said to the governments in London and Edinburgh through diplomatic channels have mirrored what we’ve said publicly. I don’t think it’s a matter of forgiving anybody. I think all along, we recognized that Mr. MacAskill had the right to do what he did. We objected extremely strenuously at many different levels and in many different channels to the release of Mr. Megrahi.
I think at this point, we’re looking to move on. We’re looking to continue the very important cooperation that we have with the United Kingdom and with Scotland. We have very deep and abiding ties with Scotland. These ties are cultural. They’re – we share political values. We have many family ties. My own father, as you probably can guess from my first name, is Scottish. He was born in Edinburgh. So we’re looking to move on. We’re looking for a – to continue this important relationship that we have with Scotland.
QUESTION:
Is there any diplomatic price for the Scottish Government to pay?
MR. KELLY:
We are very close allies, and I think allies – I don’t think we’re looking to punish anybody, per se. There’s no tit-for-tat here.
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Online Ed Here
Good Morning Scotland reported that Gordon Brown had been snubbed by President Obama after UK Officials trying to set up a meeting between the two.
OK so far
Gary Robertson stated that the snub was caused by the release of the Lockerbie bomber - no other reason given.
I kid you not, no mention of the fact that there are rumours that Obama isn't a fan of Brown, that he sees Brown as someone on the way out and most importantly, no mention of the duplicity of Jack Straw over the secret Prisoner Transfer deals with Libya.
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Well, you didn't meantion--Let's see what is it that is the opposite of telling the truth? *wide eyes puzzlement*
If they could skew their news just a little more they really could give Pravda a run for its money. Unbelievable in a supposedly respectable news organization.
You DO pay for this, right?
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#95 Jake-the-saltire
"Your link to Evening Standard ... I have gone off politics completely now. Once again "world statesman Bonehead Bono" gets his mug in amongst world leaders."
Sorry about that. I should have given a warning about the unfortunate picture of the World Statesmen's embrace, which has no relevance to the text of the article.
Post or reactive moderation for all except CBeebies, please!
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#158 online ed- morning I have reached the stage where nothing GMS says or does, surprises me,no matter who is presenting, which points out to me that the editors are the ones pulling the strings.
It used to really wind me up but I have far better things to do with the limited energy that I have & I look forward to someone playing back all the old shows and watch every single one of them SQUIRM with embarrassment!!
Sid
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#105 JRMacClure
"Can Westminster dissolve the Scottish parliament? Just curious."
The reminder in oldnat's #110 of the affirmation of "the direct link between the 1707 Parliament and the current one" is probably the best practical safeguard Holyrood has, but legally it has none, zilch, nada, because the UK doesn't "do" constitutions.
The doctrine of the sovereignty of parliament [=Westmidden] coupled with the current Parliament Acts mean that whoever can command a majority of the House of Commons [currently Duff Gordon] can pass any law he or she likes, sometimes waiting up to a year if opposed by the House of Lords. The only safeguard is that the House of Lords have the right [but not the duty] to reject indefinitely any attempt by the House of Commons to delay general elections.
Even that is a pretty limp weapon as the PM can create as many new peers as he or she wishes to achieve a majority in the House of Lords, which many previous PMs have only had to threaten in order to have their way with their lordships.
As well as being more savvy than most politicos on economics, the LD's Cable is 100% correct that the continued lack of electoral and constitutional reform could become critical for the UK's polity within the next couple of years.
Post or reactive moderation for all except CBeebies, please!
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""White House officials rejected repeated requests from Britain for a formal meeting between President Barack Obama and Gordon Brown, it has emerged."
I have to say that regardless of my opinion of Brown - and his antics in trying to raise his international profile - the UK should be bothered as opposed to (just) laughing at Broon.
If Obama wants to snub the current leader of one the USA's staunchest allies - regardless of what he thinks about man himself, I find his decision questionable, but it's his decision. Remember Brown isthe Prime Minister of a nation whose troops are fighting and dying along with US troops, in a US driven campaign in Afghanistan. I'm a little disheartened by it, and the fact that the UK 'journalists' seem more intent on making capital out of Brown's continued misfortune.
I think it should give anyone else (DC for example) pause for thought about Obama and his opinion of the nations who are his allies. Heads of state don't snub leaders as individuals, they snub states.
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120. At 03:07am on 24 Sep 2009, Thomas_Porter
"The SNP promised 2,000 pounds for first time home buyers, but because of global issues banks started asking for deposits on average reaching 20,000 pounds."
Abolishing the Graduate endowment, saving students 2,000 a year- it does ring nice.
But the reality is that the grad endow was a very decent feee- students only paid it back upon earning OVER 15,000 a year, so it didnt prevent them graduating.
Personally as a student I see absolutely no problems being asked to contribute towards my education, it isn't a service free from costs afterall.
The reality is that this specific abolition was a disaster, for Scottish universities, because the SNP replaced it with £30 mill from central government. 30 mill which now cannot be put towards other major projects, because the SNP have systematically undermined the ability of Scottish universities to fund themsevles.
As I say it really isnt that much of an achievement frankly.
And...whatever happened to that pledge to abolish ALL STUDENT DEBT?
...oh thats right it wasnt workable then when you 'promised' it, and it still isnt now. Thomas you are better than this, defending a policy which is a) completely wrong, b)mostly still unimplimented- you have a brain on your shoulders, I know you do, you freuently better me in disucssions. Think about it!
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Where to start! On the class size debate, there is an obvious conflict between limits on class sizes and giving parents the ability to choose schools. If parents are given the choice then you will find that you end up with classes of 33 in the popular schools and this can only be avoided if there is a proper legal restriction on class sizes restricting sizes to a lower number. Certainly this is my experience of my children's school - the P1 classes are limited to 25 but beyond P1, all of the class sizes are at or near 33. (Of course, the high class sizes might also be due to the fact that the school is in Aberdeen City Council are which is starved of funding from the Scottish Government but let's not get back on to the GARL debate).
I would dearly love to see some evidence on the effects of class sizes rather than all of the endless opinion often from people who are far from impartial. One comment I see time and time again is that class size is not important; but surely there must be some upper limit at which size affects the education process whether it be 25, 33, 48 or 100. The fact that classs sizes in private schools are often down at 14 or 15 suggests to me that class size is important but what is lacking is proper impartial evidence.
One or two of the bloggers have commented that classs sizes were much larger in years gone by. This is certainly my experience of going to primary school in the seventies - class sizes were at least 30 and there were no teaching assistants to help. I do however wonder about how easy it is to teach large numbers of pupils nowadays given discipline problems; my experience of some of the pupils in my children's classes is that there is very little discipline at home and the parents expect the school to instil discipline. One mother at my children's school even said that she was sending her son to martial arts so that he could learn discipline. I always thought that was the parent's job.
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Just had a glance at the Herald online ( don't buy it any more as it's just another unionist rag now) and was amused to see that in a breaking news story concerning the SNP's plan to replace the BBC in an independent Scotland the following line,
"The BBC would in effect become a foreign broadcaster"
lol, no change there then.
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#163 mrbfaethedee
"I'm a little disheartened by it, and the fact that the UK 'journalists' seem more intent on making capital out of Brown's continued misfortune ... Heads of state don't snub leaders as individuals, they snub states."
While in general agreeing with your last sentence, I don't recall Clinton cosying up to Major at the fag end of the last Tory government, especially once it was clear that they were on their way out.
And I think you're going rather OTT when you write of Duff Gordon's "misfortune". The man has made it clear for all to see for nearly 15 years that his only concern has been to place himself atop the greasy pole. His pretence that he personally altered the economic cycle merely demonstrates that he has been hoist by his own petard. His chameleonic rise through the metamorphosing Labour party was distinctly fortunate and, Arafat-like, since his rise to the top in 2007 he has never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity to redeem himself.
If he has any "misfortune" it is that his abilities do not match his own belief in himself and that he had not the sense to get some "real world" job experience before embarking on his political career.
Post or reactive moderation for all except CBeebies, please!
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Once again like so many others in the media, Brian fails to address the fundamental point that the SNP are a minority government. Were the SNP a majority government, then some of the criticism would be more justified. However under the Holyrood electoral system, no party is ever likely to form a majority government, so minority or coalition government is virtually always the name of the game.
The very nature of minority (or coalition) government means that compromise is necessary most of the time and it will not be possible for the government to fully implement all of its party's policies, especially in the face of the first real term cuts in the Scottish budget from the London government. I'm sure the general public can see this, even if journalists and opposition politicians had somehow convinced themselves otherwise.
In this particular case it is good the class sizes are at least moving in the right direction, and a maximum of 18 for P1-3 is still a worthy target to aim towards in the long term.
Instead of sniping from the sidelines, point scoring and constant negativity towards everything the Scottish Government does, perhaps the opposition parties would be better to support attempts to try and put in place something that would be of great benefit for the education of generations of future Scots.
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167. Brownedov
I mostly agree with what you write Brownedov.
My intention isn't to defend the indefensible, and claim that Brown's 'misfortunes' are just poor luck or not being liked - his own deficiencies are the reason for his misfortune. It is rather that if there is any story here at all, it's not just a story about Brown's continued failures - there is a diplomatic component which is significant and ignored by the media.
I understand that leaders on the way out less useful, and lame ducks ar all the more so. Recent commitments in Iraq and current commitments in Afghanistan make this picture wildly different from Major/Clinton though. Don't get me wrong either, I'm no fan of Brown's nor do I see any need for a special relationship with the USA. I'm sure if Brown announced UK troops were to come home, meetings would very quickly occur.
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#166 GrassyKnollington
Thanks for the heads up. The Herald story is here.
Wonder which of the "Opposition parties" gave them the direct quote of this being the "latest example of SNP grand-standing from a fantasy wish list"?
Interesting also that our other unionist Aunty B can't yet be bothered to report it on this website.
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I see Gaddafi has told the UN what he thinks of it!
Google "The P&J", no sign of it on BBC.
Brown was forced to heroically come to its defence...apparently?
Still he was snubbed.
It's like kids in the playground. Only, the submarines they play with in the bath are very big and can potentially destroy the world.
GET SHOT OF THE LOT!
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148. At 07:21am on 24 Sep 2009, JRMacClure wrote:
"And Obama's dislike of Brown (and possibly of most if not all British)..."
Are you seriously saying that the new President of the United States is a bigot? That is exactly what you have just said.
He doesnt like 'the british', a bit like saying 'bush didnt like arab-iraqis'. It is a rather damning indictment of the new president of the USA.
Personally however I dont believe your 'expert' opinion at all. I seriously doubt Obama 'dislikes the british' in such a homogenous manner.
Is it not more probable that YOU 'dislike the briish' in a homogenous, generalised and seriotypical manner?
Either way your not doing yourself any favours at all. Indeed your fast on your way down a hole to Australia.
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Re 165
I agree the posturing on class sizes is not helpful. This is the most stupid debate in Scottish politics at present, and lets be honest there are a few stupid debates going on.
Class sizes are much less important than the quality of the teaching. Now I don't propose sizes of 40, but 25 or 33 makes much less of a difference than the quality of the teaching.
But lets be honest how many teachers are fired for being useless? Very very few. No politician of any colour has the courage to tackle this issue. Lets be honest we need some form of performance management system for teachers, meaningful performance management that gets rid of those who are incapable. Just like the rest of us have to cope with.
Also the management of the school is very important, the standard of the discipline, the way poor behaviour is tackled. These issues really affect the outcomes for children. If you are in a crap school with poor discipline and have a poor teacher then the class size makes little difference.
Also poor schools tend to be those in the poorest buildings, the poor buildings, make the situation worse, the best teachers don't want to go there, it becomes a downwards spiral.
So the latest shot in this phoney war to limit sizes to 25 just sentences more children to a poor start in life. It has everything to do with politicial spin and nothing to do with better education.
I have said before that the budget on offer for next year is all about political choices, for short term electoral gain. Not about long term decisions for Scotland. The cut in housebuilding is another blow to those at the bottom of the pile.
The items offered, freezing council tax, lower prescription charges, free school meals help those who don't need help. The poorest already enjoyed these benefits. Making them universal is a waste of money and should not be a priority just now.
Investing in economic regeneration instead of cutting this area should be a priority. Building houses should also be a priority.
Ensuring better efficiency from the services we already have would be a good start, some innovation in pay and conditions in the public sector would be good, where is any new thinking?
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From the latest Labour press release - it's also an article on the BBC.
Rhona Brankin, Labour's education spokeswoman, said it was time for Ms Hyslop to resign.
So there, Labour are back to demanding resignations.
Anyone else get the impression that the Scottish branch of the BBC news have quietly morphed into a de-facto political party?
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Lets Give The Big O the benefit of the doubt here.
Has anyone realised that it is the General Assembly of the UN at the moment and here is the opportunity for Heads of State from around the globe to stop by at the White House for the Photo Op ?
Obama doesn't NEED to talk to Paw. The two administrations are in contact on a daily basis, the militaries work side by side on the ground and the Finance Departments probably have an open hotline since this time last year.
Despite Glenn Campbells best efforts, although the administration may be politely described as Mildly P*ssed at the Megrahi Affair, it has been made clear that it is esentially Business As Usual and that once the good Colonel departs back to the desert and the story drops off the headlines, all will be well.
On the other hand, a cynical ranting ultra-cyber Nat like myself may suggest that Paw NEEDS to be SEEN to be talking to Obama ?
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#169 mrbfaethedee
"It is rather that if there is any story here at all, it's not just a story about Brown's continued failures - there is a diplomatic component which is significant and ignored by the media."
Yes, I agree with you there. We're obviously not in fundamental disagreement on this.
My own take is that Obama has to distance himself just a little from the UK including Scotland just now over Lockerbie unless, or perhaps until, he's prepared to publish what the Bush Sr, Clinton and Bush Jr administrations did over the issue. Right now he has what he sees as the more fundamental battle over health care to fight and can hardly afford to make new enemies, particularly of his SoS's hubby.
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#168 akava77 - excellent post - whether they like it or not it is a FACT that no political party has delivered every single "promise" in their manifesto whilst in power since the return of the Scottish Parliament.
you are correct that is the way it was set up ,in fact can anyone else remember the promise about it not being like a mini westminster as in the Scottish Parliament would not be confrontational but would be conciliatory ?
the opposition especially the labour party cannot compromise,when they are bereft of any idea's and don't have anything to contribute!
this and this alone is the reason for the sniping ,points scoring and general negativity
They can't do anything else and they are still in the huff that despite all their scare story's they still couldn't win the last Scottish election.
Sid
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PS to my #170
If you're interested in what the SG's Opportunities for Broadcasting discussion paper actually says, you can read the press release here, with links to the full text.
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154.
I think you're reading a bit too much into things. Giggle just cannae spell.
172.
Dean, quite a lot of otherwise sane and rational people will tell you that they "hate" the British. When prompted further they will explain that they hate the actions of the British during colonialist times, when Britain commited what can only be described as war crimes and crimes against humanity. My own grandfather would cordially tell anyone who cared to listen that he "hated the Brits". In his case it was because British soldiers burned down his house when he was a child in Ireland during the Partition and drove his family out of their village. He was a victim of ethnic cleansing, and had every right to express hatred against those who committed a crime against him and his family. But he wasn't a racist or a bigot, he loved my uncle's English wife and children - and he even served in the British army himself during WW2.
I don't get your Australian reference by the way. Now, if you want to talk about British crimes against humanity in Australia we could be here all day. The British are after all responsible for the world's only successful genocide - the murder of the entire population of native Tasmanians. A pristine culture that evolved in total isolation for 10,000 years, and Britain wiped it out deliberately. There is a great deal that Britain has done that can - and SHOULD - be hated.
Try to avoid descending into the hysteria that usually characterises Giggle's posts. When I read your post yesterday gushing about Cameron I was reminded of the starry eyed naivety of a Labour activist in the 90s talking about Tony Blair. That activist turned into Giggle. You seem to be following the same path and your man isn't even elected yet.
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#166 grassyknollington & #170 brownedov
it is a sad day when the scare story's reach such a poor standard.
we would need to pay twice for the BBC ?
And how would they enforce that ?
The best of them all - you would need to get it on digital or satellite! By the time this actually happened would the digital switch over not be completed ?
Sid
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Online Ed Here
The BBC have decided that Fiona Hyslop is now the 'beleagured' minister for education.
Is there a by-election on the way?
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176. Brownedov
"Right now he has what he sees as the more fundamental battle over health care to fight and can hardly afford to make new enemies, particularly of his SoS's hubby."
You're right - if Obama doesn't come out of his health care reform efforts in good shape it could hamper the rest of his presidency.
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#154gedguy
Sad I have to respond too this.
Look (whiskey heaven) is a fats Domino song' Jeez' O'
Every afternoon when I wake up
I say a little prayer and I drink up
I thank the lord for driving me home
Once more
There's an open bottle on the table
And an empty bottle on the floor
Last night I thought I'd died
And I went to Whiskey Heaven
You know the sun never shines in Whiskey Heaven
It rains Jack Daniels all the time
There's a price you pay, hang overs everyday
Flyin' high with honkey tonk angels in Whiskey Heaven
There's a run down bar, it's a open all night
When me and my friends can get tight
Underneath the neon lights
In Whiskey Heaven
Well we drank a little beer and wine
We stay drunk most of the time
We're always raisin' hell all night
In Whiskey Heaven
You know the sun never shines in Whiskey Heaven
It rains Jack Daniels all the time
There's a price you pay, hang overs everyday
Flyin' high with honkey tonk angels in Whiskey Heaven
Fly high with honky-tonk angels in Whiskey Heaven
Fly high with honky-tonk angels in Whiskey Heaven
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Why should Obama meet Brown just to uplift his profile in the UK?
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#179 Infrequent
Ding, Dong, Allele a 10,000 year old reference why the rest of the world hates Britain. Hysteria! Hmmmm,
Seriously, would a modern day president hold a grudge against Britain?,
I suggest you stop the hysteria before you and some others stir up another race row.
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#180 sidthesceptic
"it is a sad day when the scare story's reach such a poor standard"
Too true, and so far as I can determine, there's still nothing about it on this website. Typical too is that one part of the Herald's story is entirely made up [do viewers in the Irish Republic, France, Belgium or Holland pay the BBC licence fee?] while the rest concentrates on just two bullet points from the report's Executive Summary.
As the BBC won't show it, it's clearly worth posting that one page summary here, viz:
Current position
Calman proposals
Options for devolution
Further opportunities under independence
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giggle - stop digging.
If you were Scots you would spell whisky without an 'e'. Doesn't matter how much of a Fats Domino fan you are.
If you were Scots you would have naturally spelled the ex-Scotland Manager's name in a similar fashion to every other place in Scotland derived from the Old German root -burg (tip of the hat to Infrequent there, back me up on this , eh?).
If however, you were from some other part of these islands, we might expect you to spell it as -borough. As in Middlesborough, Loughborough, Mexborough or more likely in your case, Hillsborough.
Bye-bye Lone Stranger -you've been sussed. Time for another reincarnation.
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184. hamish42
"Why should Obama meet Brown just to uplift his profile in the UK?"
He shouldn't.
Brown's bumbling attempts to raise his own domestic profile by seeking elevated status internationally are as distasteful as they are obvious.
The issue for me is that the as Brown is the PM of the UK, Obama's refusal to do so doesn't just snub Brown it snubs the UK, some accomodation could have been made. The media have chosen to focus almost exclusively on how cringe-inducing Brown is (true), but not at the snub to the UK, the US's strongest ally on the world stage in recent years (and still paying a price in blood).
Just to be clear - I personally would much rather see the UK have less unthinking affiliation with the US. Maybe Brown should pull the troops out, and change heading for the EU ;)
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The only analogy brought up in comparison is that of Obama and his healthcare proposals.
Obama has fought tooth and nail for healthcare reform.
If he fails to get it then he will be accused of being incompetent not of lying.
This, "the snp are only in the minority" argument only works if they TRIED to get their policies and were out-voted. They haven't.
You claim that all political parties have broken promises. Yes this is true, or at least in the most part anyway, but those who do it really badly get held accountable for it. If anyone can come up with a list that long of policy proposals broken by the government in any one of their three terms I'll be very impressed.
If you "Promise" something that you don't plan on delivering then you are telling a porky-pie. Just cos some other people did it, slightly less, does not mean that you are absolved of all guilt. Two wrongs don't make a right.
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#172. At 12:15pm on 24 Sep 2009, deanthetory wrote:
148. At 07:21am on 24 Sep 2009, JRMacClure wrote:
"And Obama's dislike of Brown (and possibly of most if not all British)..."
Are you seriously saying that the new President of the United States is a bigot? That is exactly what you have just said.
Dean, are you saying that because one is President (or prime minister) they may not still have visceral dislikes? Of course, he won't punish the UK for something 50 years past and may very well like individual British, but he's still a human being, you know. And people (normal human beings) sometimes have feelings about such things.
In case you haven't noticed, there are people who don't like AMERICANS. We've done some bad stuff. Well so have the British and not everyone in the world has forgotten that. It's something we have to live with.
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"183. At 1:46pm on 24 Sep 2009, giggletheloneranger wrote:
#154gedguy
Sad I have to respond too this.
Look (whiskey heaven) is a fats Domino song' Jeez' O'"
++++++++
Quite sad you felt the need to. Guess what? You didn't need to...
Guess what? You shouldn't have.
To be fair though, I thought it was quite clever that you stubornly and deliberately kept miss-spelling whisky.
Yeah great touch.
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"185. At 2:04pm on 24 Sep 2009, giggletheloneranger wrote:
#179 Infrequent
Ding, Dong, Allele a 10,000 year old reference why the rest of the world hates Britain. Hysteria! Hmmmm,
Seriously, would a modern day president hold a grudge against Britain?,
I suggest you stop the hysteria before you and some others stir up another race row."
+++++++
Truth hurts. Doesn't mean it should be denied.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
111. At 02:13am on 24 Sep 2009, NCA999 wrote:
If as Thomas Porter suggests earlier that
The SNP won this election by one seat, that one seat could easily be accounted for by the lies they made to the nation, and to their constituencies in order to get elected. If as someone else above really suggests, that the SNP weren't elected on their manifesto but as the party that wasn't labour then why on earth did they make all of these promises?"
Well....if, as you imply, one seat should be lost on the basis it was won by a lie, I wonder how many seats would actually be occupied.
NONE!
Sad but true. Therfore, this argument is null and void.
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I'm pretty sure Obama has a dislike of the British to some extent. Many of his relatives in Kenya suffered pretty heavy handed British treatment during the Mau Mau campaign to push the Brits out of Kenya and he mentions this in his first book.
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193. giggletheloneranger
"Or are you throwing up the flag of racial hatred?."
and from #185
"I suggest you stop the hysteria before you and some others stir up another race row."
There's only one troll in here trying to stir up racism and it is yourself. We will take you to task for the lamentably poor quality of your contributions but no-one will try to deny your presence on here due to your origins. It would however be more honest to be upfront about these origins. JRMacClure is a USAnian and we have had various English contributors on here who made it quite clear where they came from. You on the other hand try to pass yourself of as Scottish by omission. In these discussions about my nations future constitutional status, a person's origin is cogent.
By the way, the Fats Domino song, which I know very well, Fats being a particular favourite of mine, was a particularly poor reference. JR had had two or three glasses of fine malt whisky that evening, not several skinsful of rotgut bourbon as the song describes. And yes,(cos we can't afford to offend any more USAnians or Glenn will need new underwear) there is good bourbon whiskey, some of which could possibly be compared to a malt, if you really really tried to stretch a point. Jack Daniels is not remotely in that category. Four Roses, now you are talking :-)
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#196
Sgt Squirter, you may be able to convince Dipsy and laa/laa but Hey! ho guess what Mrs Stripes, your not fooling the rest of us?.
Four-Roses, Hmmm, all red I hope.(quality)
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197. giggletheloneranger
Now you are just being silly. You really are not very good at this trolling game. Get used to disappointment, it's going to be a feature of your life for a very long time indeed.
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#198
Squirter, All my life watching America.
Silly is as Silly does.
Sgt, There's this block who just stays down the road from me, he's been working for the council, has been for 30 years or so.He told me yesterday he was giving his notice, he said that the reason was since 2007 his council area was not receiving the same kind of funds from the Scottish office, so his job has become a victim of an under grant from the Scottish office. I suppose you will agree with the Scottish office?.
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Oops, should have been bloke instead of block
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Far too many people working for local government getting paid far too much in many instances for doing far too little for far too many years. We can't afford such indulgence any more - if we ever could.
Why are chief executives and heads of department of underperforming local governement units getting paid more than the PM?
We could easily shake a third of the staff out of local government while maintaining services and the money saved could be easily redeployed in providing useful and constructive employment opportunities.
Does that answer your question?
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Addressed to both dean and giggles, before you attempt to discuss Mr. Obama's thoughts and emotions on the Mau Mau rebellion and what happened during that time, I suggest reading what HE said about it.
I believe that a book penned by Mr. Obama entitled Dreams From My Father should be readily available even in your part of the world. It is, incidentally, an extremely well-written, even stylishly written, volume and worth the time to read.
Until you read his own words on the subject, I am fairly certain you haven't a clue what you're talking about. How his obviously strong emotions on the subject might or might not affect his relations with others on the world stage is worth discussing, but I won't discuss that with someone who can't even bother to discover what he said.
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I just came across this quote from a statement by Mr. Brown earlier today--vi1 the Beeb:
Mr Brown told Sky News that he accepted that British voters had "suspended judgement" on him...
Judging from the polls, that is one way of looking at it.
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#196. I never could manage to like bourbon, I don't care what the brand. It tastes too sweet to me--a bit like drinking a Coke. But for those who have a taste for it, there are said to be some good choices out there. As far as the chances of finding a bottle of Bowmore in that "run down bar" Fats was singing about, it's pretty slim, but my mis-spent youth while I was studying Medieval History of all the useless things (speaking of useless degrees unless you actually want to know something about the history of someplace like--Scotland *gasp*), I got drunk in such places once or twice. ;-)
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