Big debate takes to the road
Not sure if you've managed to catch any of the programmes in a new series I've been presenting on the wireless. Brian's Big Debate on Radio Scotland every Friday at 1315 BST. C'mon, I'm allowed to plug my own show.
Another belter today with lively exchanges on Trident, pensions, teachers and the future of broadcasting. Great audience contributions - with a forest of hands still in the air by the close.
Anyway, after a few shows in BBC Scotland HQ in Glasgow, we're venturing on the road. Next week's programme will come from Perth, the scene of so many key Scottish political battles.
I'm not quite old enough to have covered Ted Heath's Declaration of Perth, nor the 1963 by-election when Sir Alec Douglas-Home entered the Commons to become PM.
But I have reported on umpteen party conferences from Perth, firstly from the City Halls then the new Concert Hall venue.
And I covered the remarkable by-election when Roseanna Cunningham won her Commons seat in 1995.
So I'm looking forward to returning to the old city next Friday. Actually, I'll be in Perth rather earlier than that - tomorrow for the contest between St Johnstone and the mighty Dundee United.
Much as I appreciate the Fair City, I'm afraid that more fundamental loyalties will prevail on that occasion.
I'm 
© MMIX~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~22~RS~)
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Thanks for letting us know what time the show is, each Friday.
As I'm but a fair step from Perth, I will try to obtain tickets for "An Audience with Brian".
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Thanks for this weeks blogs!
The Alex Salmond Show was a classic.
Read it again,then watched 1st Min Q's
Now that's entertainment !!!
Enjoy the footie !
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No there is nothing wrong at all with plugging such a fine piece of BBC broadcsting Brian!
I listened, I enjoyed- ever thought of chairing BBC Question time if it ever does get moved to Glasgow? I think you'd be class.
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That'd be pretty interesting, Mr T, a Scottish Question Time? Or more along the lines of the Jeremy Kyle Show? ;)
I'm not generally a radio man though I like transcripts. We're not as big on those as the Americans are.
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Brian,
A massive plug - lets hope your show goes well enough that the Dundonians let you back out again - preferably unscathed!
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Is this an invitation?
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
I listened to your debate on the iPlayer, Brian, and thought overall it wasn't bad, but it was very disappointing that you cut the broadcasting segment off so quickly. Still nothing on this website about it, either. Funny, that.
On class sizes, you didn't seem to have the audience on your side, did you, despite the debate being from Glasgow?
Post or reactive moderation for all except CBeebies, please!
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Off to the fitba in Perth then Brian ? Look out chip shop, here I come !
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ok lets have another go
I listened to your first show, it was mince, because you were hardly unbiased.
Please listen and let the others speak rather than interjecting
Dont take this personally Brian and I am not being objectionable just providing feedback
now is that a nice enough way of putting it ? !!!!!
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It would be great if you made Brian's Big Debate available as a podcast.
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#11 ickbinberliner
"It would be great if you made Brian's Big Debate available as a podcast."
Seconded!
Post or reactive moderation for all except CBeebies, please!
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[tubleweed rolls past]
Well - as nice and entirely appropriate a plug it was, and despite the enthusiastic initial repsonse, it turned out to kill the thread stone dead.
[more tumbleweed]
Someone say something!
Where's giggles?
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"So dont become some background noise
A backdrop for the girls and boys
Who just dont know or just dont care
And just complain when youre not there
You had your time you had the power
Youve yet to have your finest hour
Radio"
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13. mrbfaethedee
Shifting Winds no tumbleweed yet.
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14. giggletheloneranger
bravo!
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Hmmmm Deanthetory was enthusiastic. That might be a telling fact, But I thought BBC was firmly pro-Labour. Now I'm confused.
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Brian
The Labour guy on your debate made great play of the world being "too dangerous" for the UK to get rid of nuclear weapons.
I have never understood who these weapons are supposed to deter, and which state is likely to attack a middle sized state off the coast of the continent of Europe. Why are we uniquely vulnerable? Why haven't Spain, Italy, france, Germany found it necessary to waste resources developing an "independent" deterrent?
The only logical answer would seem to be that it is the UK's interventionist policy that might create additional risk.
The correct answer is, of course, that the UK and France need them to keep their unjustified status in the UN. Post imperial pride and a pathetic attempt to keep the vestiges of lost status.
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Does Nick Robinson EVER allow comments? What IS the point of a blog in which one cannot comment? IS there a point?
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18. oldnat
"The Labour guy on your debate made great play of the world being "too dangerous" for the UK to get rid of nuclear weapons."
Apparently, this "Labour guy" was too dim to figure out that weapons of mass destruction are a substantial part of what makes the world dangerous. Could be party leader material, this one.
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When is your Radio Scotland programme repeated ?
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Brian,
Just listened to "The big debate" and wondered if the "big" refered to your stature because on the whole it all sounded a bit tame.
Your defense of the BBC was pathetic to the extent it sounded as if you feared losing your job if the SBC should become a reality.
If you want this to work you'll need to get some bigger hitters on the debate and I will make myself available should you decide to take the road show to Aberdeen (Stonehaven would be better).
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All the countries in this world without nuclear weapons must be shaking in their boots thinking they are going to be threatened by those that have. Or is it only Scotland they will drop them on, if we get rid of ours.
If we had a decent foreign policy and not try and run the world, nobody would threaten us.
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15. cynicalHighlander
good read. site's in the rss reader now.
Thanks!
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18. oldnat
"Post imperial pride and a pathetic attempt to keep the vestiges of lost status."
There's barely even that now, it's not like it's the elite club it once was.
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23. dbbaye
"All the countries in this world without nuclear weapons must be shaking in their boots thinking they are going to be threatened by those that have."
More likely focusing on what they spend those unwasted resources on in order to improve their fortunes in the world.
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#19
JRMacClure
You are spot on!
Everyone who logs on and responds to Nick Robinson before he
cleans his glasses,deserves a prize !!!
Stay awake Nick !!!
Andrew Neil's blog is active for hours !!!
Nick,I live in western Europe,not some soviet news control !
If you are so impolite,not to listen/read our comments,
why should we respond to you !!!
In your next blog,please advise your are now
OPEN ALL HOURS !!!
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Online Ed Here
The big debate?
A sop from the BBC.
Give us a weekly televised debate in the form of 'Question Time', not this garbage.
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28. U14094468
"Give us a weekly televised debate in the form of 'Question Time', not this garbage."
That would be excellent!
Who would chair it?
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#29. Maybe someone who could treat all of the debaters equally? Nah. That's pretty much out on BBC. ;-)
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Our nuclear weapons are "deterrents". Presumably they are somehow very different from Iran's which will be "weapons of mass destruction" or am I missing something?
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#31 remember, One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.
Guess it's like Star Wars - It's all true from a certain point of view.
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Interesting that this story -
"Glasgow–government relations hit low point over Games venues delay"
http://news.scotsman.com/politics/Glasgowgovernment-relations-hit-low-point.5681276.jp
is being run in the Scotsman, but I can't find it on the Herald site (where it would be more relevant).
The best bit of trouble making journalism is in its list of Glasgow/Scotland flashpoints (sounds ridiculous anyway!)
"3. Schools. The government is expected to announce a school building programme soon. If Glasgow does not receive what it wants this will cause renewed friction"
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Online Ed Here
29. At 01:18am on 26 Sep 2009, mrbfaethedee wrote:
"Give us a weekly televised debate in the form of 'Question Time', not this garbage."
That would be excellent!
Who would chair it?
Good question - Not Taylor, nor for obvious reasons 'Glenn Outrage'. Brewer has managed to retain some professionalism and must be considered, perhaps even Lesley Riddoch.
One debate that is crying out to be had is the state of BBC Scotland, especially the political news. The complete lack of informed analysis and the tendency to run Labour inspired campaigns is serving no-one.
Coupled with this is a failure to even acknowledge Westminster, leaving Labour pretty much free to say what it wants under Jim Murphy, a man who has never been seriously questioned by anyone from the BBC - quite an indictment of the state broadcaster.
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33. From all the squealing and hopping up and down regarding Glasgow, I'm wondering if someone may actually decide to HAVE that NE Glasgow by-election sometime in the future. Sounds mightily like politicking to me.
I thought Glasgow was safely in Labour's pocket. Maybe Labour isn't quite so sure? Or just want to make sure it doesn't escape their clutches?
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Surely not a QT?
It is diabolical in its bias, feebleness and control.
Having watched the HH "shut him up David "incident no one can take it seriously as debate can they?
Not to mention the so called Scottish QTs from Lothian and Borders ,where they bussed in English labour Party activists , Miss Haversham ,who woke up to haver, some unfunny comic with little to say other than the old chestnut , "United we stand divided we fall"a lost Shadow cabinet for Health minister, the ever lovable Father Cairns and poor Nicola Sturgeon.
Could'nt stand a regular Scottish version of that!
And there are no guarantees of it being any better judging by the political coverage in Scotland.
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From the Telegraph,
"Domestic passengers flying to Scotland may now have to show their passports
Passengers on domestic flights to Scotland face having to show their passports to police when they land under terrorism laws, The Daily Telegraph can disclose. "
Interestingly when travelling South I show my passport have done for some time.
Equally, when my daughter flies home she shows her passport.
The airlines have required proof of identity for some time and find passports the most acceptable.
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Online Ed Here
Having listened to Brian Taylor's debate on radio, I can now clearly see why the BBC in Scotland do not want such a forum aired on TV.
Take just one issue debated at the end of the programme; teachers and class sizes. The audience provided a far more in depth analysis of this subject that any media outlet in Scotland. For the first time we heard people question the role of Glasgow council in the failure to recruit teachers.
Taylor had to cut off two members of the audience who were in the process of highlighting the complete failure of the previous Holyrood administration to even accept there was a problem and the policies of Glasgow council.
The audience pretty much demonstrated the extent to which Labour and the BBC are out of step with todays Scotland. Listen to Brian's interjections on Trident at the start, almost exclusively pro Labour.
He also [not surprisingly] defends the BBC when broadcasting is debated.
Pity no-one asked why such a programme wasn't deemed suitable for an evening slot on TV.
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Online Ed Here
The BBC have an article on the politics section entitled:
Economists challenge budget plans
The article uses a report by the Centre for Public Policy for Regions that highlights the decision by the Scottish Government to prioritise the Health Service over other areas in the recent budget.
The BBC of course could have chosen to emphasise this aspect of the report but it didn't, instead we have the usual subjective attack on the SNP.
However, what caught my eye was a section in the report that dealt with the real terms change in the Scottish budget for next year. Remember that yesterday saw Labour inspired headlines stating that the Scottish budget was increasing in real terms by £1 billion - it was repeated on Brian's debate yesterday.
Here is the relevant section of the CPPR report:
The economists calculate that the Scottish government will have £275m more to spend next year, but allowing for inflation, that means a real terms reduction of £243m, or 0.7%.
Now the BBC could have also chosen to highlight this damning piece of evidence, but it didn't. The difference in next years budget has of course underpinned much of Labour's rhetoric this last week, to ignore such a devastating revelation from an independent body is simply appalling.
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#35 JR I wonder if the reason that the Glasgow East bi election is being held of as a general election is about to be called or it could be that Labour are just so scared that they are not going to give the people of Glasgow East an MP !
#39 U14094468 (In case you were wondering thats your name for when the 'Machines' take over)..Labour and the 1 billion better off ... was it not 600 million better off Labour said Scotland would get but the SNP said we would be 500 million worse off. I wondered how the figure of 1.1 billion could be so far out. Somebody was clearly wrong but it seems if these people are to be believed that both partys were wrong.
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I would like to put forward Margo for the post of chairperson for the Scottish Question Time. I'm sure that she would take no nonsense off any of the guests.
# 202 JRMacClure The Alex Salmond show
I think that you will find that in my # 200 I said: Personally, I am against it which, in my book means that we do not disagree with each other. I know that sort of thing goes on and always will. Such is the nature of the beast.
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# 31 sneckedagain
Excellent point.
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Have just been listening to the Derek Bateman show and I am becoming deeply concerned about Glenn Campbell's mental state. He is fixated on the Libya/ Megrahi issue, indeed it seems he has an obsession about it and if it is"Scotland's defining moment", and 25 minutes of the programme was devoted to Glenn dredging up the same old same old. His legs being taken from him in New York after Mr. Kelly's (U.S. State Department) conciliatory remarks must have been a bitter blow. However, Glenn was given another shot at it today. I guess BBC Scotland felt it had to get something out of the expense incurred in sending him to New York but all concerned must have been disappointed at the lack of vilification by those interviewed of the Scottish government and the Scots in the final moments of the piece. No lasting damage to Scotland. Blast!
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on nuclear weapons, while i deplore the blooming things, i still think we need some form of deterrent. no one knows how the world will change. look at history and there are many examples of where everyone thought things would be great. certainly trident is a classic case of overkill. we could replace this with nuclear tipped cruise missiles. they are submarine carried and while not having having the same range, the threat of a retaliatory strike remains. plus the cost would be considerably cheaper. but that is my own personal view if we remain within the uk. if independent there is no point unless we wish to emulate that nutter that runs venezuala.
any odds on smeato winning the seat btw? should make him speaker if he wins. he'd put the boot into some of the long winded pompous gits down in westminster.
in fact, get him to host QT!
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Why are my recent comments coming up as "you" and not my name? I am confused.
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# 45 Florence0131
Don't worry about it. On your computer it shows up as 'You' while on everybody else's it shows up as 'Florence0131'.
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#45 you cant be you .. i'm you !
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# 44 barbarian9
You were doing so well in this post. I was agreeing with everything that you were saying; well, nearly. Then you fell for the western propaganda about the 'Nutter'. He isn't a 'nutter' but has different ideas on how to run his country which is different, and to some extent very different, than that of his big and powerful neighbour, the USA.
Look at the disgust we felt when the leader of the FBI tried to influence the democratically elected government of Scotland by sending that letter. The USA has a bad habit of believing that it has the 'right' to interfere in the legal workings of other countries. Now, I am not having a go at the USA (which, of course, I am) but I do realise that many countries do exactly the same thing as the USA. Remember that there are many countries in the world that do not share the British establishment's view of the Anglo-Saxon axis. It doesn't make those countries 'bad', but different. We live in a country that is part of this Anglo-saxon axis (hopefully not for too long) and are, thus, subjected to Anglo-Saxon axis propaganda.
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Excellent blog by Robbie Dinwoodie, regarding the candidate named by the jury team.
I saw him interviewed and he was quite lost ,even with simple ,kindly questions.
Glasgow North East require someone with more bite and fight , someone who will get things done to change the place for the better.
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# 47 ubinworryinmasheep
lol
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44. barbarian9
"no one knows how the world will change."
Suggestions:
Rising sea levels.
Shortage of clean drinking water and food.
Over population.
More violent weather extremes.
Lack of available energy.
Trident won't solve any of that in fact it will increase those problems around the globe.
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43. Florence0131
I also listened and we pay for that ignoramus to spout his bias against Scotland.
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34. U14094468
"
Good question - Not Taylor, nor for obvious reasons 'Glenn Outrage'. Brewer has managed to retain some professionalism and must be considered, perhaps even Lesley Riddoch."
While disappointed with some of Grodon Brewer's recent interviews (MacAskill over al Megrahi being the one that stands out most), I think he's very good at pushing interviewee's on to the point, leaving them answering the question or looking very foolish tring to avoid it (Jackie Baillie's numerous 'defences' of Wendy Alexander were cringe inducing comedy).
If that translates to chairing a panel discussion, it'd be good.
Perhaps they could pick 3 and rotate to start with.
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#45 & #47
Sorry it can't be either of you called 'You'...I'm 'You'.
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#49. Do you have any thoughts on the other candidates? Or for that matter on the possibility of an election actually taking place? (I find the concept of these people having no representation a bit baffling. You'd think they'd object)
My own view of nuclear weapons--they aren't a true deterrent and are a total waste of money. They're the national equivalent of when a man takes out a part of his anatomy and waves it around thinking it impresses someone.
It doesn't. Neither do nuclear weapons which if one uses -- someone else uses back. We have nuclear winter and everyone dies.
GOOD deterrent. Riiiight.
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#49 ..'Glasgow North East require someone with more bite and fight , someone who will get things done to change the place for the better' ..aye i dont think Smeeto is the man to do that either. Mind you if he takes votes away from Labour it will be a good thing.
#54 'Sorry it can't be either of you called 'You'...I'm 'You'.' erm is this a Sparticus moment ?
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What about a Scottish "Have I Got News for You"?
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#52 I listened to Good Morning Scotland yesterday and Gary Somebodyorother was hammering into our Nicola. Boy did the fiesty little minx not hoof him in the tunnocks. Appaling the level of attack on the Nats though as i cant remember Labour getting the same treatment.
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48. At 09:52am on 26 Sep 2009, gedguy2 wrote:
# 44 barbarian9
You were doing so well in this post. I was agreeing with everything that you were saying; well, nearly. Then you fell for the western propaganda about the 'Nutter'. He isn't a 'nutter' but has different ideas on how to run his country which is different, and to some extent very different, than that of his big and powerful neighbour, the USA.
Look at the disgust we felt when the leader of the FBI tried to influence the democratically elected government of Scotland by sending that letter. The USA has a bad habit of believing that it has the 'right' to interfere in the legal workings of other countries. Now, I am not having a go at the USA (which, of course, I am) but I do realise that many countries do exactly the same thing as the USA. Remember that there are many countries in the world that do not share the British establishment's view of the Anglo-Saxon axis. It doesn't make those countries 'bad', but different. We live in a country that is part of this Anglo-saxon axis (hopefully not for too long) and are, thus, subjected to Anglo-Saxon axis propaganda.
i had to use the word! i don't expect him to follow the usa, and actually think it is a good thing that he is upsetting them. but chavez wants power for himself, and that is what makes him dangerous. not to us but it allows russia more influence and that simply escalates the issues between russia - which is frankly turning into a gangster state - and the usa, which is politically corrupt. things haven't changed since the 50s.
51. At 10:00am on 26 Sep 2009, cynicalHighlander
you are correct that trident won't solve these problems. the most critical will be energy resources. that will certainly cause conflict.
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I think Gordon Brewer is the only possibility for chairing Scottish question time. Although there was a new interviewer on newsnicht about a month ago whom I thought very good. As you may have guessed I have given up watching newsnicht as they continue to stooge for labour.
Thanks again to online ed for the full info on the Glasgow Uni academics. BBC yet again lying by omission.
I see Purcell's labour-run Glasgow is in deep trouble regarding their utterly incomprehensible school's policy. Too few teachers and schools and too many pupils. This is very revealing, in that if you prepare a policy SOLELY to embarrass the Scottish Government you will fail to deal with the issues.And children will suffer.
Labour never learn - possibly because the BBC keeps letting them get away with it.
Brian - How about asking Murphy,Grey and Purcell how they are going to solve Glasgow's school problem ? I suggest you first of all make clear that the problem is entirely due to the British Labour party's utter incompetence and take it from there...
In light of your disgraceful failure to ask Grey if he supports "his masters voice" on Megrahi, I think we can safely assume the Glasgow labour schools fiasco will also be swept under the carpet.
Finally the BBC should apologise to Ms Hyslop for their labour inspired witch-hunt. How many Scottish Government Ministers have they BBC gone for now ? And never a word against Mr Murphy.
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The more options the better. giggle, giggle.
AS may just ask Iceland and Ireland and the 16 year olds to vote as well.
0' the giggler strikes again!
http://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/posts/view/129549/Nats-have-third-option-over-future-of-Scotland
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Re 286
I recall a conversation in a pub between shifts on a construction job in south west Scotland where a group of young people who were working on summer holiday jobs from uni were talking about salary expectations on graduation.
It just so happens our group included two welders, fitters and labourers. When they divulged salary expectations, it was obvious that it would take a very very long time for the graduates to come any where near the tradesmen.
By that time the tradesmen would be very comfortable with money in the bank.
Tristan might well be on a fast track to higher earnings on his modern apprenticeship.
Your point is that attitudes have to change. The number of unemployed graduates has started this process already. It is society's attitude that needs to change, that does not make vocational education a bad thing.
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48. gedguy2
I agree gedguy2.
The mainstream western media's view of Hugo Chavez has little reason to be trusted. The guy's no saint by any means, but to view him through the lens of the mainstream western media is no good.
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Hugo Chavez - President of Venezuela ... and there was me thinking he was an aftershave for people in tracksuits ;o)}
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59. barbarian9
"i had to use the word! i don't expect him to follow the usa, and actually think it is a good thing that he is upsetting them. but chavez wants power for himself, and that is what makes him dangerous. not to us but it allows russia more influence and that simply escalates the issues between russia - which is frankly turning into a gangster state - and the usa, which is politically corrupt. things haven't changed since the 50s."
Things that have changed since the 50's are the upsurge in South American countries seeking to free themselves from the domination of foreign powers - primarily the USA. While he sits at one end ofhte spectrum, Hugo Chavez has been a critical factor in giving this process the momentum it now has, his presence itself was an enabler for the rise of Evo Morales in Bolivia for example. The transformation of South America into a region of heterogenous states looking out for thier own interests, rather than a collection of borderline failed states being suppressed form advancement is underway. Some of the players in such a robust process will ineveitably be quite singular individuals.
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55. JRMacClure
"They're the national equivalent of when a man takes out a part of his anatomy and waves it around thinking it impresses someone."
Lol!
SOme of the early ones were called minutemen too! For patriotic rather than disparaging reasons though ;)
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House of Comments
Puzzled! as I linked to Beeb main page.
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59. barbarian9
"you are correct that trident won't solve these problems. the most critical will be energy resources. that will certainly cause conflict. "
Energy will certainly be one of the major ones. Once you sufficiently cut demand though, microgeneration can be very effective. I don't downplay the role energy crises will play, particularly given the degree to which national and supranatioanl players are involved, but in pure human terms - for me, water is the big one.
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#43
I heard Campbell droning on again too. Still with the edited comments from the US Government spokesman, excluding the statement that there is nothing to forgive.
But we're all sooooooo bored of this now. Glenn, it all sounds like persecution by the BBC.
And poor old Reevil Alderson - 20 years covering the case and he gets dumped so the BBC can use the story as a political tool.
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giggletheloneranger seems to think he/she/it is entertaining, interesting and clever. Doh.
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I met a friend, like yours truly a retired teacher, at the garage today getting the morning newspaper. He was buying the Guardian. As I recognised him as a lifelong reader of the Herald and Glasgow Herald I expressed some surprise. His reply was informative.
I paraphrase "There's not much Scottish news in the Guardian I agree but I don't have to read the utter tabloid rubbish direct from Labour HQ that is masquerading daily as news on every page of the Herald. I wont buy or read a so-called newspaper that is an insult to my intelligence"
Since the elevation of Brian Currie to political editor of the Herald and its Sunday partner any previous attempt to present some balance in the Herald has been abandoned and its "political" news content has become virtually unreadable.
We can console ourselves with this evidence of the total desperation and disarray of the unionist proprietors of everything in our lives that they should be reduced to destroying what was for a couple of centuries a beacon of moderation and reliable information in our little country.
Shameful.
A couple of years ago when the Herald did a similar lurch I know a lot of people contacted its proprietor in America. I think we will have to do the same again.
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#70 I believe its what is called an attention seeking disorder
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67. cynicalHighlander
What is this?
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#72 shep
What's your excuse or is it only an excuse.
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#73 Where did you find it ? Looks like a political forum or smear site of some kind in the making
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#74 'shep' stop it now you will have John Noakes crying again. Well i try not to post silly posts but sometimes i cant help it. Funny your style of writing is like someone else on here.
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64. ubinworryinmasheep
lol!
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61. giggletheloneranger
The unionistas left an open goal with Calman, shootie-in for AS!
'Express yourself
Create the space
You know you can win
Dont give up the chase'
c'mon radio giggles...
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Hey Brian why not blog about the plan announced to "scrap" the biased, state-controlled BBC post referendum and replace it with a truly impartial broadcaster.
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# 59 barbarian9
i had to use the word!
Really? Why was that?
but chavez wants power for himself
I haven't met a politician, or potential politician yet, who doesn't have the same idea.
but it allows russia more influence
So, what's the problem with Russia gaining more influence?
and that simply escalates the issues between russia - which is frankly turning into a gangster state
I would have agreed with you if Yeltsin was still in charge. Yeltsin was a hero of Russia when he was the 'Mayor' of Moscow when he stood up to the military. The problem after that was that he ended up running a country being totally wasted most of the time. This allowed the ex-KGB types and the gangsters to take control. Russia is not like that anymore since Putin took charge. Putin brought back order to the country and has tried to control the excesses of the newly empowered rich. Russia is no linger the dangerous state it was under Yeltsin and is no longer the USSR. Russia is now part of the free world and acts as a counterbalance against the excesses of USA foreign policy.
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gedguy2 - succinctly put. We have a lot more to fear from the USA than from Russia. I don't think Russia will be invading because they want what's left of our hydrocarbon resources. Time to end this slavish US - good, Russia- bad knee-jerk thought.
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80. At 2:46pm on 26 Sep 2009, gedguy2:
look at what happens to reporters in russia that dare investigate chechnya. perhaps gangster is the wrong word, but the media are suppressed over there. i'd also say that russia is reverting back to communism.
as for chavez, remember he did attempt a coup several years ago, but has succeeded via the ballot box. however, he is now trying to retain his power. there is a difference between ambition to run a country and ambition to retain power whatever. reminds me of a certain senior labour figure!
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# 81 Sgt_Furry
This is beginning to sound as if I am anti USA. I am not, I have a great love of the American people and its culture. Where would we be without rock n roll, jazz, blues, levi jeans, Kellogs cornflakes, computers and not forgetting the hundreds of thousands of Americans who sacrificed their lives in the name of freedom from the Imperialist, Fascist and Communist(?) threats of the 20th Century.
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ref #80
So is that why ex-pats from Russia who criticize Putin wind up dying from radioactive poisoning. Journalist and human rights worker in Russia seem to have short lives as well.
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# 84 kalicokat
Show me the irrefutable proof that this was sanctioned by the Russian government as opposed to the oligarchs or lower level officials covering their tracks. Once you have shown me that then I will show you proof of the UK government doing the same thing, and the USA and the French and the Germans and...well you get the idea. So, bring up the proof as opposed to innuendos by the press.
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It seems that TV in Britain is about to get a huge upheaval. The writing is on the wall. The spat between ITV and STV and the disappearance of certain popular TV programmes from STV. The resignation of Michael Grade. The loss of advertising revenue. The attack by the Labour culture minister on the BBC Trust and on the expansionism of the BBC; ditto the attack by the newspapers.
Probably a very apposite moment for Salmond and the SNP to declare their vision for broadcasting in Scotland. Salmond, one step ahead of the game again!
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# 82 barbarian9
look at what happens to reporters in russia that dare investigate chechnya
Like this here. This shows that the Russian state is, at least trying to get to the truth. Didn't we (the posters) have a strong discussion about the Al-Megrahi case on these blogs? He who has not sinned may cast the first stone.
remember he did attempt a coup several years ago
How about this BBC article on the coup in the UK in 1975.
I can also point to the coup d'tat in the USA in 1963 but I am sure that you can find that out yourself if you google it.
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# 86 hamish42
Don't tell Dean about this as he might accuse STV of telling fibs about it up coming schedules instead of a commercial company trying to sort out its finances through lack of funding. Now, I wonder what I could be referring to there?
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#86 hamish42
As I don't see UK tele, I have to go on the reports here. Do you not think that the man Campbell should be worrying about his pension rights? It may be that he can blame his editor, like the SNP man did when challenged about the "gun" in Glasgow North East. But I'm sure that after 12 years of spin the whole media is rotten; no longer news reporters but all trying to be news makers.
I've ended up reading the SNP and Labour sites and otherwise an assortment of bloggers so I do appreciate those that do still read / watch / listen to the media and flag up the more extreme idiocies here.
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83. gedguy2
"This is beginning to sound as if I am anti USA. I am not, I have a great love of the American people and its culture. Where would we be without rock n roll, jazz, blues, levi jeans, Kellogs cornflakes, computers and not forgetting the hundreds of thousands of Americans who sacrificed their lives in the name of freedom from the Imperialist, Fascist and Communist(?) threats of the 20th Century."
Not much to disagree about in the above except to point out that many millions of Soviet citizens gave their lives in the fight against fascism and we owe them a far greater debt than we do to the Yanks. I don't remember the USSR charging us for their assistance in the 1939-45 unpleasantness. I do remember that the lend-lease debt to the Yanks was only finally paid off a couple of years ago. I also remember that the USA spent a considerable time on the fence before finally deciding to join in and then bled us dry post-war while offering Marshall aid and a military umbrella to our former enemies. Thanks, Yanks.
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# 90 Sgt_Furry
I agree. The second world war was won by the blood of the citizens of the USSR. The war by the western allies was only a side show (but an important side show) in comparison with what happened in the USSR. However, during the dark times for the USSR, during the war, when they were being forced back, the British supplied the USSR by the 'Murmansk Run' of which my uncle was one of the sailors supplying the USSR.
Just as an aside, if we declared war on Germany when the Germans invaded Poland, why didn't we declare war on the USSR when they did the same? Strange that, wasn't it?
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Online Ed Here
Just had a listen to Glenn Campbell broadcasting from the Angus McIndoe restaurant in Manhattan.
Leaving aside what we know to be his clear detestation of the SNP the programme is worth analysing objectively.
The show, started with Campbell deciding that there had indeed been widespread 'outrage' in the USA caused by the release of Al Megrahi and that 'damage' had also been caused to either relations between the USA and Scotland and to Scottish business interests.
This isn't very professional, nor was his insistance on asking some very leading questions.
The show also contained no evidence whatsoever that challenged this view, indeed the answer the state department spokesman Ian Kelly gave earlier this week to Campbell's 'do you forgive Scotland' question was edited in order to remove a very significant part of his answer - again not very professional.
The opinion of Susan Stewart the former Secretary for Scottish Affairs that the relationship between Scotland and the USA has been damaged is again broadcast. Campbell again refuses to inform the listener that this individual is Jack McConnell's former chief press officer.
The lack of knowledge by at least one American guest regarding the process leading to the decision was not addressed, surely the host should have sought to inform the guest instead of allowing him to present an opinion based on ignorance?
The language throughout from Campbell was overly dramatic and emotive, his own subjective interpretation was allowed to dominate.
Campbell at one point actually cited his own earlier "defining moment" statement as evidence that this decision was the 'defining moment' of the Scottish Gobvernment.
The release of Megrahi is also suggested as a possible reason for the snub to Gordon Brown, the Prisoner Transfer Agreement negotiated by Labour is simply ignored.
Finally, listen to the last part of the programme where each guest is allowed to sum up; the Scottish owner of the restaurant is clearly edited out at 36mins 23 seconds as he is making a statement supporting the compassion shown.
Ommissions, prejudice, edits and ignorance flowed from this broadcast - informed analysis it was not.
Not for nothing have I labelled Glenn Campbell 'Glenn Outrage'.
Listen to the programme here:
Click Here
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#90 Sgt_Furry
post-war while offering Marshall aid and a military umbrella to our former enemies. Another side to the coin is that these were available to us in exchange for the Empire. We refused and, when we realised that there was no profit in being Imperialists anymore, the money was no longer on the table. I feel it is the same syndrome as the 'England out of the EU' mob suffer from. My big worry about independence is how the English will cope without us.
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Online Ed Here
I should also have added that Campbell also brought up the now discredited Harris Tweed story and actually asked if such a move was a good idea.
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91. At 5:05pm on 26 Sep 2009, gedguy2 wrote:
Just as an aside, if we declared war on Germany when the Germans invaded Poland, why didn't we declare war on the USSR when they did the same? Strange that, wasn't it?
we almost did end up at war with russia, as churchill thought it might be a good idea to support finland. how that would have ended is anyone's guess.
russia certainly destroyed germany, but then stalin destroyed millions of his own people in order to drag russia into the 20th century.
as to journalists and stories, we all saw what happened to dr kelly. that is one issue that must be resolved.
you find that confronting politicians can cause problems. try upsetting your local councillors (preferrably labour ones) and see what happens.
86. At 4:29pm on 26 Sep 2009, hamish42:
if we want to start afresh with broadcasting, keep the blooming politicians out of it! you know what will happen, salmond will come up with a perfectly reasonable policy on broadcasting, and the media will accuse him of political interference.
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The Soviets "invaded" Poland to stop Hitler getting too close to their own borders. Mind you the fact that Poland was the first state to declare war on the fledgling Soviet Union may have had a little bearing on the situation. Much is made of "poor tiny Poland". Poor tiny Poland was not itself that far from a fascist state under Pilsudski with well documented atrocities against its own Jewish population and the Ukrainians. The gallantry of the Polish cavalry against the Hitler's tanks is often remarked upon. What is glossed over is just why Poland still had cavalry. Having emerged from the ruination of the first world war and then immediately attacking the Soviet Union in a foolhardy bid to annexe the Ukraine ruined the Polish economy and says a lot about why they still only had cavalry, no matter how individually brave (or downright foolhardy) these troops were. The Poles are actually extremely lucky to exist, had they not broken the Soviet codes at the battle of the Vistula, the entire country was in danger of being overrun. Instead they won a stunning victory and the Soviets were forced to sue for peace.
As to your actual question about why Britain did not declare war on the USSR also, I don't know. I do know what the Daily Heil, err Mail would have wanted though....
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ref# 90
So tell me about the non-aggression pact between Russia and Germany that allowed the two to divide up Poland? What about Stalin's wish for Germany and Britain to destroy each other so Russia could clean up? Sounds pretty dang heroic to me.
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# 95 barbarian9
I agree with all of your post.
# 96 Sgt_Furry
True.
# 97 kalicokat
Of course, Britain and the USA never had the policy towards the USSR and Germany?
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# 97 kalicokat
Sounds pretty dang heroic to me
We were talking about the heroic efforts of the people and soldiers of the USSR; not the politicians.
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#92 online ed ,afternoon , followed the link and I must say I was disappointed!
The bold Glen had half the programme and we never heard from the rabbi that has been in every other report that he has done from America this week , maybe she was having a wee lye down!!
we did however have every other half baked truth ,every bit of spin and every other bit of edited garbage that he has been spouting freely all week,
unchallenged of course.
Sid
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Sgt_Furry & gedguy2
While it's interesting to talk of history and how we got to the present situation, modern day Russia is becoming evermore a concern in its attitude and dealings with the world.
Are you both seriously advocating Putins moves to drag Russia away from democratic reforms and back to the days of a one party communist dictatorship which is suspicious of all things to do with the West?
The man is reminiscent of another Nikita Kruschev. Russia may have been weak at the beginning of the nineties, but the chance for reform was missed and we are now left with the corrupt and power hungry running the country, with Putin as the defacto dictator pulling the strings.
Trust Putin's Russia at your peril, which is becoming an evermore insular and confrontational state.
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# 101 ScotInNotts
Are you both seriously advocating Putins moves to drag Russia away from democratic reforms and back to the days of a one party communist dictatorship which is suspicious of all things to do with the West?
Show me the evidence that you have on these accusations.
The man is reminiscent of another Nikita Kruschev
If you'd have said that Yeltsin was like Kruschev then I might have agreed with you. I seem to remember Kruschev banging his shoe on the podium of the UN during his speech. I seem to remember in the press that he was drunk; similar to Yeltsin.
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# 92 U14094468
I've just finished listening to your link. I think Glenn should give up and come home. You were correct about the loaded questions. Several times he used the word 'outrage' but not one of his guests agreed with him. Most said they were disappointed or confused about the release. This is old news and one would have to wonder why he is determined to keep this in the news. Mind you, one would have to ask why BBC Scotland has spent all that money on sending him over there in the first place.
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Eddie Barnes: Brown's last stand
"So focussed is the attack that even Scottish Secretary Jim Murphy, whose day job up till now has been to shadow the SNP administration, will devote his entire speech on Monday to the Conservative threat."
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#102 gedguy2
Your right, Putin's a really nice guy, as are all politicians, but particularly those in charge of single party authoritarian regimes with a dark past in the secret services of said state.
Contrast and compare Russias international relations during Gorbachov and Yeltsin as opposed to Putin's view of the world now.
Do you honestly think Medvedev is running the show now, or is Putin the power behind the throne?
I'm intrigued by this view that Russia has somehow changed for the better from its insular communist past, and that somehow Putin is a superior figure compared to Yeltsin or Gorbachov.
Granted they are all complex situations in their own way, but look at Russias treatment of former Soviet states and other satellite regions of influence and interest:
Ukraine,
Belarus,
Georgia,
Chechnya,
Inghesetia.
Not to mention it still holds close ties to present day Iran.
You asked for proof of Russias treatment of journalists reporting against the state, but dismiss any suggestions that it may have been the case as media inuendo.
Might I also suggest that finding proof of secret service involvement of any state in matters such as this is nigh on impossible, another one for the conspiracy theorists perhaps.
I was merely interested to find out from where the warm and fuzzy attitude towards Russia had arisen.
I'm more of the opinion that neither the USA under Bush or Russia under Putin could be trusted, however I'm more inclined to trust the USA under Obama than Russia under Putin/Medvedev if forced to chose based on our countries past and relations.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
there are plenty of laws for everything else, there really should be a law about spouting misinformation in the public domain, when the wages are paid for by us, that includes politicians and journalists, although to call GLum Campbell a journalist is an affront to proper journalists.
Glum your days are numbered
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My above comment in reference to #92. (on the slight off-chance it isn't moderated as my comments about the quality of Glenn Campbell's "reportage" usually is)
Campbell. I seem to recall some people hate them. I wonder why. =)
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#105ScotsInNotts
I'm trying to remember the name of that Russian fellow who was infected by a dose of poisonous radiation and died in a london hospital, a very horrid event which was sanctioned by Putin.
Not sure about the Mr Nice guy.
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#105. Well, I suppose I should be glad you trust the US more than Russia although I could match your list, possibly, with Iraq and Afghanistan.
Your soldiers in Iraq were killed to find WMDs and are dying--possibly today--in Afghanistan to keep terrorists off the streets of London, though. Right? Not because our leaders told your leaders that was what they should do.
MMmmm Hmmmm. I believe that.
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What I want to know is how people like Brian Taylor, who is if I understand Glenn Campbell's boss(?), MANAGE to look at themselves in the mirror of a morning.
Mr. Taylor, I'd love the answer to that one. How do you manage to live with publishing arrant propaganda?
I deal with it better when you aren't making up this propaganda about the attitudes of MY government and MY people. There are days when I'll freely criticize my own government but in this case, I don't have to. They are right. Mr. MacAskill and the Scottish government had done NOTHING to forgive.
But that is being hidden from the people of the UK and of Scotland.
WHY?
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# 105 ScotInNotts
but particularly those in charge of single party authoritarian regimes with a dark past in the secret services of said state.
I assume that you are not talking about Goerge Bush sen who was director of the CIA January 30, 1976 – January 20, 1977?
Granted they are all complex situations in their own way, but look at Russias treatment of former Soviet states and other satellite regions of influence and interest:
Ukraine,
Belarus,
Georgia,
Chechnya,
Inghesetia.
Not to mention it still holds close ties to present day Iran.
Do you want me to give you a list of all the countries that the USA and/or the UK have interferred with?
Might I also suggest that finding proof of secret service involvement of any state in matters such as this is nigh on impossible
This is very true but the fact that we are able to get news from Russia, as opposed to the USSR, seems to me to point to the opening up of the old communist regime and replaced with something more akin to the democratic institutions(?) of the west. Just google Russian newspapers and you can get loads of links in English. Strange how this happened under Putin but not Gorbachev. Keep in mind that Gorbachev, no matter how much I like him, was still the leader of the USSR.
I would like to make this perfectly clear so that you do not think that I am, or have been, in any way a member of any communist party. What I am trying to put over is that under Putin he brought Russia out of chaos under the drunken regime of Yeltsin. I am sure that if you asked any senior military personel in the USA or the UK if they had a choice between Yeltsin or Putin then I suspect that they would go for Putin. This makes military sense because it is more important to know that your adversary will not make any stupid mistakes which was why the west was thankful when Kruschev went and Brezhnev took over.
I'm more of the opinion that neither the USA under Bush or Russia under Putin could be trusted
I wouldn't disagree with that but I would add just about any government in the world as well.
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#109 giggleloneranger
"Not sure about the Mr Nice guy."
Sarcasm giggle, gedguy2 is your man that likes Russia as it stands. No doubt he'll ask you for evidence that Putin sanctioned the poisoning.
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110. JRMacClure
I don't know about your side of the pond but this is pretty damming about our "caring" government in Westminster leaving the taxpayer to pick up the tab as well as suffer the social problems.
The Hidden Army in UK Prisons
"According to the probation officers' union Napo, some 20,000 veterans are in the criminal justice system, with 8,500 of them in jail, making up almost 10% of the prison population. Other sources say the number is nearer 24,000 veterans who are either in jail, on parole or serving community orders after having been convicted of crimes."
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Just listened to Glenn Campbell's interviews in the States and the only conclusions that you can come to is that there is no lasting damage to Scotland in spite of Campbell's attempts to keep the story alive by raising it persistently and by creative editing of sound bites.
One might ask what damage Campbell is doing to Scotland by keeping this going?
He should be invited in front of the appropriate Holyrood committee to explain himself.
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#106. My own post--the moderators HATE it when I say the TRUTH about Glenn Campbell's coverage in the US. I'm sure you'll never see that post.
Dear Moderators, I am an American. I KNOW what the man is doing. And I do not appreciate it.
Mr Campbell's coverage is pure propaganda. Nothing else. He has and continues to omit essential information in order to "skew" the story. His coverage belongs in Pravda.
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The exact conversation with the State Department spokesman was THIS:
The EXACT conversation was this:
QUESTION Glenn Campbell from the BBC: Has the United States forgiven the Scottish Government for releasing the man convicted of the Lockerbie bombing?
MR. KELLY (US State Department spokesman): Well, our views on that issue, of course, are extremely well known. Again, we’ve passed these views both in private channels and in – also publicly. I think just about everything that we have said to the governments in London and Edinburgh through diplomatic channels have mirrored what we’ve said publicly. I don’t think it’s a matter of forgiving anybody. I think all along, we recognized that Mr. MacAskill had the right to do what he did. We objected extremely strenuously at many different levels and in many different channels to the release of Mr. Megrahi. I think at this point, we’re looking to move on.
Tell me something. How many times has Glenn Campbell reported on that conversation leaving out the SALIENT quotes?
Is the BBC PROUD of this "reportage"? Because they CERTAINLY shouldn't be.
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#110 JRMacClure
I didn't say I trusted the USA, I said that if forced to choose from the motley crew out there that was the least worse choice at present, not a resounding endorsement.
Point to where asassination plays a role in UK politics and I'll agree with you. Whilst the situations with Iraq and Afghanistan are abhorrent, I don't think Russias actions in the states I mentioned before equate to the same thing. It'd be like Mexico handing out passports to Texans in the hope that they can justify the readsorption into Mexico or the creation of a buffer state between themselves and the US.
I agree, Iraq and Afghanistan are unjust and unecessary wars, especially due to the nature of our entering into those wars. That said, if both Saddam's Iraq and the Taliban's Afganhistan weren't exactly utopias for the inhabitants of those countries before, our intervention has made sure they certainly aren't now. However, over time, perhaps they will have a chance of a better future for their respective nations.
Both are currently a complete mess, and were never going to be a 'home by christmas' job. Creating a country out of a war torn leaderless state takes how long? How long did it take Japan and Germany to recover after WWII.
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Silly me. I'm not allowed to ask Brian Taylor how he looks himself in the mirror of a morning although I still wonder that. It gonna be one of those days when I keep asking question that the BBC does NOT like asked.
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105. You forgot to add Abkhazia, South Ossetia, Transnitria, and Nagorno-Karabakh. But there is also a great deal of low level violence and oppression in Russia that the rest of us rarely get to hear about. The megalomaniac antics of the President of the Automonous Republic of Kalmykia are a case in point.
109. He was called Alexander Litvinenko.
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#112 gedguy
"I assume that you are not talking about Goerge Bush sen who was director of the CIA January 30, 1976 – January 20, 1977?"
I think your rather backing up my point with that one, anotehr very nice man.
"Do you want me to give you a list of all the countries that the USA and/or the UK have interferred with?"
This wasn't a vanity contest, I'm well aware of both the US and UK's past interventionist policies in the affairs of other states. It would seem that is teh nature of the game at that level, and entirely wrong in my view. By that statement I'd assume your saying we're just as bad, which in turn would mean that Russia is indeed not all rosy and not to eb trusted.
It comes done to the reasons for that intervention and the goals in mind. We where duped into intervening in Iraq, perhaps not so much with Afghanistan, but both are costly. Consider the motives behind Russias interventions in the states I mentioned.
"This is very true but the fact that we are able to get news from Russia, as opposed to the USSR, seems to me to point to the opening up of the old communist regime and replaced with something more akin to the democratic institutions(?) of the west. Just google Russian newspapers and you can get loads of links in English. Strange how this happened under Putin but not Gorbachev. Keep in mind that Gorbachev, no matter how much I like him, was still the leader of the USSR.
I would like to make this perfectly clear so that you do not think that I am, or have been, in any way a member of any communist party. What I am trying to put over is that under Putin he brought Russia out of chaos under the drunken regime of Yeltsin. I am sure that if you asked any senior military personel in the USA or the UK if they had a choice between Yeltsin or Putin then I suspect that they would go for Putin. This makes military sense because it is more important to know that your adversary will not make any stupid mistakes which was why the west was thankful when Kruschev went and Brezhnev took over."
As long as they like what is being said and don't asassinate said journalist that is. In the modern world it isn't difficult to get news out of any state, just look at the attempted repressions recently in Burma and Iran, with modern technology people find a way so I wouldn't get excited about getting news out of a 'free' Russian press. That Putin is better than Yeltsin because he's sober and not likely to make stupid mistakes isn't a glowing accolade. You have to ask how he managed to stabilise Russia post USSR, not withstanding the time taken to readjust the infrastructure and economy after the near collapse of teh nineties. I compared Putin to Kruschev as their attitudes and suspicions towards the US and the west in general have similarities. Russian naval maneouvres in the Atlantic off the US coast, back to the good old days?
At least Obama has had the sense to compromise and scrap Bush's pet project of the defence missile shield which was winding the Russians up, and the Russians were quite correct to be wound up in my view. However Russia complaining about satellite state wishing to join NATO should start alarm bells ringing. Power games and spheres of influence, it's as if the cold war never ended at times.
"I wouldn't disagree with that but I would add just about any government in the world as well."
I agree entirely, as I said it would seem to be the nature of a 'statesman', gambling with peoples lives, there all bad, just some are worse than others.
I think someone said that government is a necessary evil, but a bad government is an intolerable one.
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119. At 8:17pm on 26 Sep 2009, JRMacClure wrote:
Silly me. I'm not allowed to ask Brian Taylor how he looks himself in the mirror of a morning although I still wonder that. It gonna be one of those days when I keep asking question that the BBC does NOT like asked.
I agree but also add that the staff at BBC Scotland must share the belief that Labour good SNP bad because anyone with a shred of integrity would question the bias. But as a producer for good morning Scotland once told me, "it is the duty of the BBC to hold the Scottish executive to account" funny that I thought it was to report the news of the day.
Surprised also that nobody has commented on Lord Digby Jones's comments about the decision to free the Lockerbie bomber, what an arrogant (the other name for donkey)
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#113ScotsInNotts
OK, so you have an element of leninist and a touch of trotsky in you.
Why you red blooded person, Salutsky
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Am I imagining it... or is there a lack of coverage on Darlings sideswipe at the Labour leadership in Scotland! Nope not imagining it, it is the BBC we are taking about here..
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82. barbarian9
"look at what happens to reporters in russia that dare investigate chechnya. perhaps gangster is the wrong word, but the media are suppressed over there. i'd also say that russia is reverting back to communism."
I don't think that Russia is heading back to communism, they seem prepared to put up with any style of totalitarianism. Putin's reign is the current incarnation, the killings of journalists (and vocal expats) you mention is indicative of this.
Re: gangster's versus intelligence community. Organised crime and intelligence service are frequent bedfellows - i think some serious criminal elements managed to grab many of the freshly released asstes of the former communist Soviet Union and the former intelligence community were left a step behind. I think in Putin they caught up and reasserted themselves, but the relationship is very close.
"as for chavez, remember he did attempt a coup several years ago, but has succeeded via the ballot box. however, he is now trying to retain his power. there is a difference between ambition to run a country and ambition to retain power whatever. reminds me of a certain senior labour figure!"
While the government Chavez tried a coup against was apparently democratically elected it is widely recognised as being harshly repressive. It is notable that Chavez was pardoned by the next democratically elected president. Also Chavez has himself survived a coup attempt - in which many still claim the USA was complicit.
Some of his tactics seem very strongarm to me, it's worth bearing in mind though that the vested interests which Chavez stands against are the owners of much of Venezualan assets in industry and media, their own grip is strong.
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121. Let me say that I DO think that the US is better than Russia. But that doesn't make our government trustworthy -- by a long shot and if you think the American government doesn't sometimes use assassination I suggest looking again at our CIA. Perhaps not against journalists (though I wouldn't guarantee that) but certainly it's used against others. You know it. I know it. Let's not pretend.
I think that your comparison of Germany and Japan with Iraq and Afghanistan is poorly taken. Most especially Afghanistan. The chances of building that into something even remotely resembling a democracy are (in my opinion) laughable. It isn't happening. The government we are currently propping up there is so monumentally corrupt that we are actually acting AGAINST any possible democratization.
I might would buy your argument that we should stay there to clean up the mess we've made IF we were in fact achieving building a democracy there--or for that matter if the people there seemed to that much want a democracy. As it is, we should leave quietly.
"never get involved in a land war in Asia..." Anyone every heard that? Sadly, I think we are in the process of proving it true. What is going to be the final cost of the proof? The highest cost won't be born by you or by me. But we will get to live with the guilt of having let it happen.
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#123 giggleloneranger
Are you deliberately trying to misconstrue my posts?
Ok, here it is again so it's clear confuscious, I have serious misgivings about Putin. I'm not a fan. Any clearer comrade giggle?
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95. barbarian9
"
we almost did end up at war with russia, as churchill thought it might be a good idea to support finland. how that would have ended is anyone's guess."
The Finns know how to handle themselves against the Russians.
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I am under no illusion that both the US and UK governments will have authorised assassinations at points during history.
My point in mentioning Japan and Germany post WWII was to highlight the naivety of the interventionist powers in thinking they could get the job over and done with in a relatively short period of time. Both were leaderless and economically devastated by war, and it took decades for both to recover fully. As you state, this becomes infinitely more difficult when trying to replace the mechanisms of governance at the same time, as is the case in attempting to introduce democracy.
There are merits in leaving quietly. However, look through history at BRitain leaving quielty from it's former colonial posessions, this only stored up future resentment and trouble. It is unfortunate, however now that we're in it I'm afraid we're in it for the long haul, otherwise we're guranteed to repeat the mistakes of the past.
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#127Snots
No need to get all coded me, red friend, the silver moon shall shine bright and expose the fox.
(where is handclapping Patton)
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#127. Misconstruing posts is what he does. Life goes on per usual. ;-)
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122. peteraberdeenshire
"
Surprised also that nobody has commented on Lord Digby Jones's comments about the decision to free the Lockerbie bomber, what an arrogant (the other name for donkey)"
Haven't seen it, do you have a link?
Digby Jones, what a buffoon! It never ceases to amaze me how much airtime his corporate platitiudes and received wisdom get.
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And let me make it clear. The Taliban is past despicable, but there are a lot of people in the world who are despicable (N Korea, the Saudis, etc) who we aren't exactly going to war with.
Russia. I do think they're a bit less dangerous than under the Communist regime. That doesn't make them either good or trustworthy. But saying there hasn't been some change isn't true either. They seem much given to totalitarian governments but this one seems to me to be somewhat more possible to deal with than some past ones.
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Why does Glen Campbell imagine that anybody in Scotland is the slightest bit concerned whether the US is annoyed or not?
I couldn't care less.
No. I lie.
I would be very very happy if the US was really annoyed.
Campbell is obviously operating to a script he has been given.
He is not very good at it, sadly. He is making a fool of himself.
This whole campaign, like much of rhe coitinuous tanking the SNP is getting in all the media, is coordinated by a huge unionist conspiracy.
What will they tell their children? Will they be ashamed, these bought journalists? How did Rabbie Burns manage to write a poem about them over two centuries ago?
I wonder what will happen to the political pygmies and the tarts who make up much of our media when we are independent.
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#122. At 8:44pm on 26 Sep 2009, peteraberdeenshire wrote:
"Surprised also that nobody has commented on Lord Digby Jones's comments about the decision to free the Lockerbie bomber, what an arrogant (the other name for donkey)"
Well I did consider mentioning it, but couldn't express myself politely enough. His views on the fact that the Scottish government ("which neither he nor anyone else in the hall had voted for) had dared to take such a step were an astonishing compound of wilful ignorance, arrogance and downright offensiveness. Suffice it to see that even Harriet Harman had to step in and correct him on the fact that the Scottish legal system has always been independent - well actually she said "devolved for centuries", but in the circumstances...
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Mr B it was on thursday night question time, you will find it on i player. Do I have the link? you are having a laugh, I'm a tradesman not a computer whizz!!!
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105. ScotInNotts
"I was merely interested to find out from where the warm and fuzzy attitude towards Russia had arisen."
I think it's primarily as a result of a backlash against the USA. I think that criticism of Russia (which is easy, as you know), is seen as a kind of acceptance of the washingon worldview (criticism of which is also easy, as you know). Everything is changing now though, and I think we are holding views of the world alongside our newly developing ones - i think this muddies things further still.
To be honest I dont see much difference in all the views expressed so far - governments, particularly thse of world powers are ruthless, self-interested things.
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132. mrbfaethedee
Thu, 24 Sep 2009
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134. sneckedagain
"Campbell is obviously operating to a script he has been given.
He is not very good at it, sadly. He is making a fool of himself."
and the BBC.
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MPs' expenses: Taxpayers foot bill for mole hunt
"John Bercow, the Commons Speaker, is privately overseeing a taxpayer-funded inquiry to identify who leaked details of MPs’ expenses claims, The Sunday Telegraph can disclose."
MPs have no morals and should all be kicked out with NO pensions or any other perks.
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#134. I sympathize with waht you're saying, sneckedagain. But looking at it from the point of view of people who might be concerned with the impact on tourism (and after all tourism is an important industry). I don't think people who are legitimately concerned with making a living should be written off.
I went to Wikipedia for a few statistics. While this isn't by any means always a reliable source, it's readily available.
Scotland is a well-developed tourist destination, with tourism generally being responsible for sustaining 200,000 jobs mainly in the service sector, with tourist spending averaging at £4bn per year [1]. Tourists from the United Kingdom make up the bulk of visitors to Scotland. In 2002 , for example, UK visitors made 18.5 million visits to Scotland, staying 64.5 million nights and spending £3.7bn. In contrast, overseas residents made 1.58 million visits to Scotland, staying 15 million nights and spending £806m. In terms of overseas visitors, those from the United States made up 24% of visits to Scotland, with the United States being the largest source of overseas visitors, and Germany (9%), France (8%), Canada (7%) and Australia (6%), following behind.
Now I dispute that there will be any impact on American tourism, but let's assume that I'm wrong. What might be a realistic impact? 5% reduction? No, let's go really high and say 10% 20% reduction on American tourism.
The TOTAL of tourism from American tourism was £200m. Which means a 10% reduction would equal £20m. Spread over the entire country, pardon me, but I doubt that anyone would even notice and it certainly isn't enough to make an entire country cringe and beg, for heaven's sake.
Scotland should not sell its laws OR its soul for £20m.
You'll note that when someone from authority form Harris Tweed commented, it was that they had seen no impact (and they mostly don't sell to Americans anyway). I'm not sure that approval in European countries would not more than make up any very hypothetical disapproval from the US anyway.
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The success of the SNP is strong evidence that a substantial portion of Scotland has written of news coverage by the BBC. Otherwise the SNP would not have a single MP.
Wouldn't you think at SOME point intelligent(?) news people would take a hint?
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136. peteraberdeenshire
"Mr B it was on thursday night question time, you will find it on i player. Do I have the link? you are having a laugh, I'm a tradesman not a computer whizz!!!"
Ah, I've given up on question time for a while.
Caledoniand54's #135 gave the gist. Thanks though.
At least you do something productive for a living ;)
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138. cynicalHighlander
Cheers, might try and find the right bit, and watch the bufoonery unfold.
Used to enjoy question time, but it gets worse and worse - as does Dimbleby.
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With regard to the the endlessly recuring Campbell (and the rest of the beeb) stuff, in conjuction with the SNP starting to push their Scottish broadcaster pitch, i feel like we ought to be discussing it - but all i can think of to say is 'yes! let's have it'.
Referendum please..
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Lib Dems tutored MPs on how to exploit their expenses
"The MPs were schooled in the use of "grey areas" to get questionable spending through and advised: "There is lots of scope... so be imaginative!""
Roll on Nov 5th for real this time.
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131. JRMacClure
"Misconstruing posts is what he does. Life goes on per usual. ;-)"
Giggles also adds much colour to the pages, and frequently has an apropos lyric to add. Life's better with giggles!
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#129 ScotinNotts
As far as I can recollect the Brits have "left" Aden, Antigua+Barbuda, Australia, Bahamas, Bangladesh, Barbados, Belize, Botswana, Brunei, Burma, Cameroon, Canada, Cyprus, Dominica, Gambia, Ghana, Grenada, Guyana, Ireland, India, Jamaica, Kenya, Kiribati, Lesotho, Malawi, Malaya, Maldives, Malta, Mauritius, Namibia, Nauru, New Zealand, Nigeria, Pakistan, Papua New Guinea, St Kitts+Nevis, St Lucia, St Vincent + Grenadines, Samoa, Seychelles, Sierra Leone, Solomon Isles, South Africa, Sri Lanka, Swaziland, Tanganyika, Tonga, Trinidad+Tobago, Tuvalu, Uganda, USA, Vanuatu, Zambia, Zanzibar, Zimbabwe, and the mandates of Bahrain, Egypt, Fiji, Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait, Oman, Palestine, Qatar, British Somaliland, Sudan, and the UAE. Could you be a little bit more specific about those from which they left quietly and the trouble they stored up, please.
PS yes,yes, the Balearics, Corfu etc., but Calais was definitely English.
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#147. Giggles also adds much colour to the pages, and frequently has an apropos lyric to add. Life's better with giggles!
Still, don't expect him to do much but misconstrue posts as ScotInNotts pointed out. :-)
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To all the poll nerds on the blog (Brownedov, oldnat, deanthetory, i'm looking at you lot) - I had been meaning to ask what you thought of UK internet-based coverage of politics from a stats/polls point of view. As a point of comparison, I was going to ask why we don't have a site like fivethirtyeight.com (who gave absolutely stellar coverage of both the parties nominations and the presidential election).
Before i got round to doing it though, up pops a story where one of guys behind fivethirtyeight.com (Nate Silver), has come and said that an american polling company Strategic Vision is 'cooking the books', needless to say the company in question is ready to defend its integrity, with lawyers of course.
You guys never let in that polls and stuff ever got exciting! ;)
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46 GEDGUY: Thanks you.
47 UBIN: Cute!
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122 PETERABERDEENSHIRE: Re Digby Jones - I found his remarks deeply insulting. He obviously has no understanding of the matter.
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#149
JRMacClure, I'm misconstruing the situation Can a fellow be misconstrued all his life?
All the trials and tribulations!I better get myself some misconstruing advice.
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141 McCLURE: The person who told the Harris Tweed story was a someone who worked part-time as a designer. This was disclosed by the Harris Tweed boss who completely refuted the story.
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128. At 9:09pm on 26 Sep 2009, mrbfaethedee wrote:
95. barbarian9
"
we almost did end up at war with russia, as churchill thought it might be a good idea to support finland. how that would have ended is anyone's guess."
The Finns know how to handle themselves against the Russians.
yes, they surrended. (i read a lot about the russian-finnish war, i was just being blunt, but the finns didn't go quietly).
on the media coverage, i've always thought that if the media was truly balanced, then when criticism did arise about a political party it would be fairer. meanwhile, back on planet earth.......
125. At 8:52pm on 26 Sep 2009, mrbfaethedee wrote:
Re: gangster's versus intelligence community. Organised crime and intelligence service are frequent bedfellows -
tht's true - look at the railroad barons.
on chavez, he is an intelligent man but dangerous. no to you and me directly, but indirectly he has influence in opec. that is worrying.
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#150 mrb
Nate has it easy, it's a two horse race. Our lot hadn't even got used to three party polls when up come the Nats in Scotland to make it a four horse race and so they changed the rules again to go for PR for Holyrood. When it all settles down in the new Scotland I'm sure our polls will get to be just as good as 538.
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#153 derek
There's a lot of it about; all the people that misconstrued New Labour as in any way a socialist party as Labour were.
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#154. Yes, I understand that. The man who made the statements was a part-time employee who had no authority to totally change the Harris Tweed advertising program and just a little checking on the part of reporters would have shown that.
I pointed this out to several reporters who weren't greatly appreciative on being told they were incompetent--which they had shown themselves to be. I'll not name names so as not to have my comment moderated YET AGAIN. ;-)
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#155. Seriously, saying the Finns surrendered is hardly fair to them. They put up one hell of a fight against horrendous odds.
I know you said they didn't go quietly but they deserve more credit than that.
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#150 mrbfaethedee
The technicalities of the doubts over Strategic Vision's numbers go well beyond my statistical skills! However, there are oddities in the numbers they produce that raise questions as to how those numbers could have arisen if normal polling methodology was being followed. Nate Silver has been very careful in his comments about a firm which has a record of being litigious. I'll do the same, and make no further comment about that dispute.
However, if we take a hypothetical example and imagine a firm called Oldnat Polling Ltd which offers a polling service for a fee, but doesn't have the regional offices that I put on my website, or share the methodology I use with my peers, and comes up with different numbers from my competitors, you would have to be an idiot to hire me to do the polling (unless I offered to give you the results you wanted - 4 out of 5 cats prefer your product).
In the UK, you can avoid using such people by avoiding anyone who isn't a member of the British Polling Council.
(If you follow Five Thirty Eight, you probably know all of this already - but I've gone into teacher mode!)
I don't think it really matters whether you do the interviews online, by phone, or face-to-face. Your sample is never going to be representative of the entire population (eg you may have asked a higher proportion of men than women than is the population pattern). If that is a significant factor (it is for political questions for example), then you need to "weight" your sample by statistically reducing the importance of the men's answers and increasing the women's to make your sample more closely resemble the whole population. The pollsters have to do this for a range of factors - especially age, social class and geographical area in addition to gender.
Obviously the larger the sample, the more accurate the polling is likely to be. That's why the Scottish figures in a UK sample are what Brownedov calls "just a bit of fun".
What Brownedov and I sometimes question is whether YouGov have their weighting factors for Scotland right. They list them at the end of their Scotland only reports, but the most obvious difference (newspaper readership) still uses UK data - all the Scottish papers are lumped into "other". My suspicion is that on that weighting factor, they give undue importance to those that read English (or the Scottish editions of English) papers. This suggests that their data has an unintended "British" bias - how big that effect might be, I have no idea.
Here endeth the lesson!
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#148
And they are all now independent members of the United Nations!
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Gordon Brown's apocalypse: the BBC puts on a brave face
"I don’t know about the rest of the BBC, but its reliably pro-Labour online journalists are still doing their best to look on the bright side of life:"
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Interesting article in the Sunday Herald.
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/politics/darling-takes-a-swipe-at-gray-for-being-too-soft-on-salmond-1.922216
"Darling takes a swipe at Gray for being too soft on Salmond"
A lot of you will remember how Labour manipulated the selection process of their candidates for the Scottish Parliament in 1999 to exclude some of their best people (Dennis Canavan, anyone?). They selected a large quantity of nonentities as they didn't want the Scottish Parliament to have much credibility - and anyway Donald Dewar would ensure that Scotland would be run much the same way after, as before, devolution.
Now they are amazed at the outcome of what they chose to do. They put up their second/third string against the SNP's first string, and they are surprised that they are losing? The Tories did much the same thing, as MSPs preferred to be meaningless back benchers in Westminster, rather than be Front Benchers in Holyrood.
I'm not saying that the SNP Cabinet are the best that Scotland can produce (though Salmond, Sturgeon, and MacAskill are well ahead of most politicians anywhere in the UK, and the likes of Mike Russell are at least as good as), but Alastair Darling could have stood for Holyrood himself, if he weren't a Brit through and through.
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Interesting, I thought. I think you might could read that as sit down and shut up, but some might disagree. ;-)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/8276246.stm
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Iain McWhirter on Labour. How unkind!
http://www.heraldscotland.com/comment/iain-macwhirter/labour-s-out-of-ideas-out-of-credibility-and-out-of-time-1.922288
but accurate.
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#164 JRMacClure
Reminiscent of one of your earlier posts. UK ministers afraid that the climate change "parts of their anatomy" would be shown up as being too small compared with the Scots. However, I'm sure that none of the leaders of the Norwegian political parties (all women) would think that important anyweay! :-)
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#163. Haha! Now admit that's pretty funny. I particularly liked this subhead bit:
Alistair Darling has admitted that under Iain Gray’s leadership of the Scottish Labour Party the SNP Government has been allowed a free run at Holyrood.
Like Alex Salmond asked their permission and was "allowed" free rein. Pitiful. I could almost feel sorry for Iain Gray though. What a slap in the face.
(By the way, can anyone tell me why the name 'Gray' is spelled with an 'a' when you spell the color with an 'e'?)
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Interesting article in the Times:
Lord Mandelson: I would work for the Tories.
I wonder if he will mention this during the NuLabour funeral taking place in Brighton this week.
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Dinwoodie is one of the better Scottish journalists (damning with faint praise perhaps?)
I have to agree with his assessment of John Smeaton's candidacy for Glasgow NE.
http://www.heraldscotland.com/blogs/parcel-of-rogues/set-aboot-1.922128
However, there will be no bye-election if it isn't called very soon after the UK Parliament is recalled, since bye-elections aren't normally held within a few months of an impending GE.
Interesting to see how the SNP will play this, if Labour don't move the writ. If they think it not in their interests, they can stay with the Westminster onvention that a party who didn't control the seat previously doesn't move the writ (and convention would decree that since Speaker Martin was originally Labour, they are the ones to move it). Alternatively, if they think it to their advantage, they can defy convention and move the writ themselves, either to force the bye-election, or to embarass Labour when they vote against it.
Frankly, it makes little difference to the voters of Glasgow NE. The worklooad of Scottish MPs must be so low (no deomestic issues to deal with) that whichever neighbouring Labour MP is dealing with immigration issues etc is well able to deal with that additional workload.
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I'm sure giggle/derek will appreciate that the effective Deputy Prime Minister of the UK would "work for the Tories".
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article6850863.ece
Time for his ilk to abandon Tory Mk2 and argue their case (along with the likes of fourstrikes) in a socialist party for an independent Scotland.
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Another interesting article:
Hain breaks cabinet ranks to warn of devestating defeat.
And the NuLabour funeral has not even begun yet!
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
#166. At 01:47am on 27 Sep 2009, oldnat wrote:
#164 JRMacClure
Reminiscent of one of your earlier posts. UK ministers afraid that the climate change "parts of their anatomy" would be shown up as being too small compared with the Scots. However, I'm sure that none of the leaders of the Norwegian political parties (all women) would think that important anyweay! :-)
Haha! I typed a really funny response but you'll have to use your imagination because there's no WAY it would get past moderation. ;-)
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#171 Roll_On_2010
I really liked the bit in this article where he said "I don’t want to hear any more defeatist statements." LOL
More interesting, however, is the cynical suggestion to introduce PR to come into effect after the next election - designed to embarass the Tories (and to get some LD votes).
None of New Labour's constitutional changes have stemmed from principle - but from some perceived short-term party advantage. A once great political movement has atrophied into a little clique of politicians only concerned with their having personal political power.
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Labour leadership 'has lost will to live', says Alistair Darling.
In another sign of the party's woes, a leading Labour thinktank warns today that Brown could be running the "last ever Labour government".
Compass argues that unless the prime minister offers a referendum on electoral reform, Labour will suffer defeat followed by the loss of dozens more seats soon after, as Scotland opts for independence and David Cameron reduces the size of the Commons. The result could be a party with 130 seats incapable of mounting a challenge for power.
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LOL There is now a rule that I can't even MENTION Glenn Campbell. I hardly insulted him at all that time.
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Come to think of it--is it POSSIBLE to insult the level of reportage done by Mr. Campbell and his ilk?
I may have to take to humming: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cPitxtk4m0
*looks innocent* La la la "The Campbell had orders King William had signed..." La da da da
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Like murdering foxes... la da di da
Some lived to accuse him who struck the first blow... la la la
*innocent smile*
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Oldnat, we're popular with referrals tonight. We must be doing something right! ;-)
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By the way JR have you seen these articles from earlier this year…. Its enough to make your blood boil!
Plan to hive off Orkney and Shetland
Secret plan to deprive independent Scotland of North Sea oil fields.
Trash Gordon recently said - I will do anything I can to keep Scotland part of the union and it looks like he meant it.
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re my #172
Mods.
I'm really sorry that I broke the House Rules, but I have no idea why. Once upon a time, you would follow the House Rules yourselves and send me an email telling me why.
As a former school manager, I have to tell you that I would look to sack anyone that exercised power in such a way as to prevent people from learning from their mistakes. Especially, this would have been true if the mistakes were by the teacher!
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#181. I had read that elsewhere but not with all of those details. Very interesting! Thanks for the link.
Of course Labour would do anything to keep Scotland part of the Union. Frankly, they'd be insane not to if you look at from a perspective of power. Never mind what is good for Scotland. All that counts is what is good for the party (not an attitude exclusive to Labour, of course)
Those comments from Compass show exactly why. Labour is in a world of hurt in the UK without Scotland.
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#180 JRMacClure
Of course it is entirely possible that a company subcontracted to provide services for a UK public broadcaster might have deficiencies similar to an American pollster!
(Whew! That statement took careful construction.)
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#181 My Blog
Just realised the last line is not completely true.
Trash Gordon recently said - I will do anything I can to keep Scotland part of the union and it looks like he meant it.
It should have read - Trash Gordon recently said - I will do anything I can to keep Scotland part of the union.
I cut and pasted it from a blog I posted earlier this year and added the latter part without thinking it through.
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Interesting article from the Indy:
BNP condemned for hijacking Scottish and Welsh heroes.
The right-wing group's merchandise website, Excalibur, is selling items emblazoned with images of St George, William Wallace and Owain Glyndwr together with slogans such as "British by birth, Welsh by the grace of God". The BNP claims the idea is to draw on Scottish, Welsh and English history to "introduce the idea of nationalism to a total stranger". But the merchandise has caused bitter consternation across the UK.
Odd that an English Nationalist party (extreme right wing) has joined the unionists… as the saying goes - every little helps -:)
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#184. My friend, you just might be right. I wouldn't be a bit surprised. That took some fancy wording.
Oh, I notice Nick Robinson actually kept comments open. How strange. I'm not sure anyone knew what to think! His praise for GB's wonderful week made me chuckle though.
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#186 Ok, I'm confused. I thought the BNP hated the Scots. Aren't they like--anti-Scottish? Or is that another one?
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Sometimes you people confuse me. How could, William Wallace and Owain Glyndwr, two nationalist heroes who died fighting against being absorbed by England be British heroes?
I am soooo confused.
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Roll_On_2010,
I find it amusing that the British National Party are comfortable promoting William Wallace, a man responsible for slaughtering many English and Welsh warriors and to an extent beginning the right against the oppressive English tyrant, King Edward.
I can understand the promotion of Britishness... but I don't believe this counts unless Britishness has little history which might explain why the British National Party are using other historic heros.
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Now now, I don't think it counts as slaughtering them since they were, at the same time, trying to slaughter him. If they'd stayed on the other side of that Bridge that Gibson left out of the movie...
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#190 Thomas_Porter
I am with you on this one.
I can understand them using St George and Winston Churchill in England. But why use William Wallace and Owain Glyndwr whom as you rightly said where, if anything, anti-British.
I think mainly it is as the article portrays a fund raising effort and it does not hurt if at the same time they can use these heroes in a way of portraying themselves, in a similar light, to an audience of ignorant perspective voters.
I live not far from Oldham and Blackburn where in recent times we have had race fuelled riots, where the BNP have exploited people’s fears over immigration to benefit their cause. They will use anything to give themselves that air of respectability.
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#191 JRMacClure
LOL
However, you disappoint me with your #188&189 (or I would be if I thought you were serious!)
Historians need to be empathic with any groups' thinking - no matter how abhorrent they night be to the historian personally.
The BNP are simply trying to attract those strands of Scottish, Welsh and English nationalism which have ethnic, as opposed to civic, nationalist roots. That might have resonated in part of the Scotland of the 1930s. Fortunately, we abandoned that kind of thinking a long time ago.
I feel really sorry for the English - trapped with political choices of the four British Imperial parties (Con, Lab, LD, UKIP), a mindless racist group in the BNP, and their nascent Engliush Nationalist parties at a level of political development roughly where the SNP was 50 years ago.
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Roll_On_2010,
Perhaps it's a cordinated attack by Labour and the British National Party?
Jim Murphy is taking the Saltire back and of course the British National Party is stealing our historic figures and rebranding them, 'British'.
Just kidding, it would be funnier if it were true.
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#193. Ah, well, not a very good joke but I do somehow connect them with the people who rave on about how Scots are stealing English money and so forth. You know the ones I mean.
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Is this another example of a Labour person being found out doing something wrong and then trying to lie their way out of it?
Baroness did not see passport
One of the two of them is telling a blatant lie. Either the Attorney General Baroness Scotland or Loloahi Tapui, an illegal immigrant from Tonga. When you look at the evidence presented it looks as if it isn't Loloahi Tapui. If it is the Attorney General Baroness Scotland can she be charged with perjury? I'm not too sure which court she went to or what the English law is on this matter, but what I do know is that there should be an immediate investigation to see if she did commit perjury to the courts. This is a serious offence, if she did do that.
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#196 gedguy2
Another stark difference is that one of them says they will take a ‘lie detector/polygraph’ test.
Guess which one?
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# 189 JRMacClure
It's similar to the English hijacking King Arthur, who fought against the Anglo-Saxons, and Boudica who was queen of the Iceni before the Anglo-Saxons came to Britannia.
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Has anyone heard whether that Labour MP, I choose not to remember/mention his name, who blatantly lied about having a rewire done to his flat in London. Is there a police investigation into his forging of documents to claim the expenses for that?
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# 197 Roll_On_2010
This is serious. Employing an illegal immigrant to do a bit of work in your house is one thing but lying to the courts is a completely different matter. If this was an ordinary Joe Bloggs who lied to the courts then the courts, quite rightly, would jump on top of them from a great height. However, this is the Attorney General so that assumption(?) (I was nearly going to say something else there) that she lied is even more unbelievable. Didn't Gordon Brown back her when this all came out?
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151 Florence0131 'cute ! ' oh i'm not bad but not exactly David Hasselhoff ! lol
Regarding Question Time .. i only watched the first 10 minutes but the new editor of The New Statesman seemed a bit of a numpty. Notice the point when he says that British firms are getting nothing out of the transfer of Al Megrahi and Digby Jones rolls his eyes and smiles. Even i know that BP are already in there to exploit the gas and oil reserves. I have to say though that Heseltine came across well about this supposedly special relationship that Britain thinks it has with the USA.
My thoughts on Gordon Brown being snubbed (if he was ) is that, has anybody actually thought that maybe Obama doesnt even like the man ?
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# 176 Roll_On_2010
I sincerely believe that the UK Labour party don't want to win the next GE. (the Scottish abour party are a different kettle of fish, for obvious reasons) If the Labour party had to win then they would be faced with the unenviable task of having to sort out the mess that the economy is in, under the leadership of one Mr. Gordon Brown. This way they can sit on the opposition benches and blame the Conservatives for the cuts that they will be forced to impose upon the British public because of the mess that Labour has left them in. I also suspect that the Labour leadership knew damn well that they were never going to get back into power and decided to load up the economy with as much debt as they could borrow knowing that they would never have to pay it back and that way they would be able to 'stick it' to the Conservatives. In a way it is a brilliant piece of political 'pass the parcel'. In another way it is beyond contempt.
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155. barbarian9
"yes, they surrended. (i read a lot about the russian-finnish war, i was just being blunt, but the finns didn't go quietly)."
Of course - the only point I'm making is that despite the massive difference in ralative size, the Finns fought the Russians effectively enough (and without assistance) that despite the harsh terms of the peace, they nonetheless kept their country and their own government. To say didn't go quietly, implies that they went. They sued for peace, the Russian terms were harsh, but the Russians accepted.
"on chavez, he is an intelligent man but dangerous. no to you and me directly, but indirectly he has influence in opec. that is worrying. "
The influence of Chavez on opec doesn't worry me at all, what am I missing?
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#202 gedguy2... you could be onto something there. I was reading something about Mandelson being parachuted into a safe seat so he could maybe become the new party leader but then i thought, hell who would want that job, what with the possibility of being in opposition for the next 8 years or so ? I personally think Labour are going to be wholly responsible for the break up of the UK as more people vote for other partys other than the torys and Labour.
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156. handclapping
"When it all settles down in the new Scotland I'm sure our polls will get to be just as good as 538."
I'm sure you're right to say that the number of parties makes it more difficult here. Do we have currently have blog equivalent of 538 here though?
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# 204 ubinworryinmasheep
Mandelson isn't that stupid.
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#206 No i see he is willing to work with the Torys apparently. Choo Choo all aboard the gravy train !
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#167. At 01:51am on 27 Sep 2009, JRMacClure wrote:
"By the way, can anyone tell me why the name 'Gray' is spelled with an 'a' when you spell the color with an 'e'?"
Its because the colour has been washed out of it :-))
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# 207 ubinworryinmasheep
He has to jump ship (as in rats and sinking ships) first to join the gravy train.
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#209 I also read in a link speculating that certain high up ministers like Darling/ Brown would go off and join financial institutions rather than fight on as opposition. That just shows you how rubbish Labour have become. I bet that Harmen gets the leadership title as they really dont have much on offer and having a woman in charge might fit in with their psuedo tory policys ... a Labour Thatcher how does that sound ?
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160. oldnat
Thanks oldnat!
Any uk stats blog that comes close to 538?
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He's late to the party but the empty vessel never disappoints - SNP forfeited right to govern when it freed Megrahi
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#104. At 7:10pm on 26 Sep 2009, cynicalHighlander wrote:
Eddie Barnes: Brown's last stand
"So focussed is the attack that even Scottish Secretary Jim Murphy, whose day job up till now has been to shadow the SNP administration, will devote his entire speech on Monday to the Conservative threat."
------------------------------------------------------
The other side of this argument is of course that the English are going to vote Tory and there is nothing Scotland can do to stop that. Nothing.
The issue is really how we deal with an in-coming Tory party.
We saw how Labour dealt with it in the 80's - moaning on the back-benches, pocketing expenses, as Scotland was hammered.
There is a better option now and it isn't Labour.
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#212 I will leave somebody else to rip him to shreds but why has he been given the space to write all this drivel ....'sea of Saltires' erm what 2 ? Must be a small sea !
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I bring it up through the Chavez bits of the thread (the geopolitical stuff re: Russia) - the South America-Africa (ASA) summit.
Does this sort of thing presage a north-south hemispheric disinction to parallel the east-west one, which will actually change the geopolitical scene in the 21st century?
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
214. ubinworryinmasheep
I don't think anyone even bothers taking Kelvin Mackenzie apart any more - that keeps getting the media space says a lot about the media.
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# 212 mrbfaethedee
Is it me or do I detect a slight dislike for the SNP?
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Politics Show - Scotland.
I thought that given the position of the SNP in the Scottish Parliament, I thought Murphy was very foolish to gift the SNP language stating that at the GE the SNP is a sideshow.
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#205 mrb
Sorry, for Scotland, as far as I know, BWB is as good as it gets. One man's view is Jeff Breslin's snptacticalvoting. For the UK there's politicalbetting and ukpollingreport. There may be others.
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BBC's Glenn Campbell Annoys Americans
Does anyone from the BBC read these blogs.
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I was listening to Jim Murphy on the Politics Show about the snp getting more money than Donald Dewar. For the life of me I cannot understand how is going to reverse wages, inflation, and cost of living back to when Donald came into power, but listening to him I am sure he can do it
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Kelvin McKenzie ... i just had a thought .. is he standing for parliament at the next election for the Jury Party ?
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Oh, dear God, I commented yesterday that I felt Glenn Campbell was fixated with the Megrahi affair. Well, on the Politics Show, what did we have again? I don't need to specify. We've seen and heard it relentlessly from Glenn and the BBC for the last six weeks. Nice friendly interview with Jim Murphy, though, and Murphy allowed to put forward his points without interruption. However, it was the same old fluff he usually spouts. Guess what? Alex Salmond has double the funds that Donald Dewar had. Wish I had a pound for every time I've heard him spouting that. By the way, he has still failed to say what his views are on the release of Megrahi. Apparently it wouldn't be right for him to comment. Hasn't stopped him in the past for passing comment.
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#148 handclapping
It appears you've been specific enough for the both of us :)
I leave it to you to look at the resultan situations that have arisen in the areas you've listed with their roots in British actions and policy.
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The Framing of al-Megrahi
"Perhaps the result could have been different if there had been an entirely Scottish police investigation, with unrestricted access to all available information, without interference or manipulation from outside."
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218. gedguy2
I know! Subtle as a brick in the face, eh?
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220. handclapping
Thanks handclapping - i haven't seen ukpollingreport, i'll take a gander.
I'm sure the scottish political blogging scene will grow more blogs over time, and that their variety (in type as well as political slant) will also grow.
Not fancy blogging yourself?
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#217 Well i know he's not a very nice chap what with saying bad things about Elton John and Liverpool fans. Apparently he is going to tell us all something on the news and in the newspapers ... i think he is standing for election and since he is pro tory would fit in with the Jury Partys paymaster views.
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224. Florence0131
"By the way, he has still failed to say what his views are on the release of Megrahi. Apparently it wouldn't be right for him to comment. Hasn't stopped him in the past for passing comment."
Yes, today - he said he tokk the same line as Broon; that it was a decision for the Scottish Goverment, and it wasn't his place to comment. He then went on to say how badly it had been handled. Class!
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BBC Scotland being selective again. They choose a private school to demonstrate that a class size of 18 is irrelevant. Better to be 20 say the school. Well they would wouldn't they, as private schools have to generate income which means putting as many kids into the square footage of a classroom as they can get away with! Another factor which was completely ignored.
The wee lassie they have presenting in the politics show is an embarrassment.
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#163 Oldnat, I had to laugh at Alastair Darlings' comments.
I hope Alex invites him up for the next FMQ's... it would be quite entertaining to watch hm getting pummelled. My guess is that he would develop a little more empathy with Gray.
*:o)
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afternoon - #214 ubin & #217 Mr B.
I Would suggest that the reason he gets the space to publish this simply shows what dire straits the unionist cause is actually in .
the answer to his question in the second last paragraph is simple ; If it wasn't for the existence of the Scottish Parliament, for the UK Government to blame, they would have been up shit creek without a paddle AGAIN.
However his last paragraph on page 2 shows that whilst he might be seen as an idiot there seems to be just a little "light at the end of the tunnel."
I have always had a sneaky wee suspicion that the final push for independence would be assisted by the English
Kelvins last para is possibly the "green-shoots"
It's a pity we have to read thru the rest of his usual drivel but when you are searching for wee gems you need to go sifting
Sid
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231. At 1:54pm on 27 Sep 2009, hamish42 wrote:
The wee lassie they [BBC Scotland] have presenting in the politics show is an embarrassment.
The name of the 'wee lassie' is Catriona Renton.
She is an ex Labour councillor for Glasgow.
Also, a Labour List Candidate for Glasgow in 2007.
She was a Labour Candidate in the 2003 Scottish Parliament and in the 2004 European Parliament elections.
Her personal facebook lists the following as friends:
Jackie Baille Labour MSP
Yousuf Hamid Labour Activist
Tom Harris Labour MP
Mike Dailly Labour Activist
David Martin Labour MEP
Frank McAvetty Labour MSP
John Robertson Labour MP
John Park Labour MSP
Steven Purcell Labour Glasgow Leader
Dave Watson Vice-chair of the Scottish Labour Party
Quite how she managed to gain the position she has within the BBC in Scotland is surprising.
There is no suggestion of course that her political views influence in any way her broadcasts.
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I just had another thought .. what if Mckenzie is standing as a tory instead ? You would think he would be a liability but then the torys have Boris and look at what he achieved. You would think Labour would have realized the writing was on the wall when somebody like Boris could take London from them.
#233 From reading what he says, he cant understand why the Scottish people agree with letting Al Megrahi go free. He thinks us all mad. That just shows how far out of touch he is with Scotland and its not surprising when his column is not in the Scottish version of The Sun ...not that i read it. If anything i think he will have persuaded more people to vote SNP with his rantings
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"Iain is a brilliant leader of the MSPs in the Scottish Parliament," said Jim Murphy.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/8277219.stm
Ha Ha hahahahhaaaaaaaa...
Ouch!!!
...sorry, just fell off my seat laughing.
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Online Ed Here
Re: Glenn Campbell's 'Lockerbie Outrage' week in the USA.
I'm glancing through Ofcom's broadcasting code and section 5 in particular:
The section is headed:
Due Impartiality and Due Accuracy and
Undue Prominence of Views and Opinions
The section includes many interesting guidelines regarding presentation of both sides on matters of "major political controversy that are of national, and often international, importance".
The document states:
In dealing with matters of major political and industrial controversy and major matters relating to current public policy an appropriately wide
range of significant views must be included and given due weight in each
programme or in clearly linked and timely programmes. Views and facts
must not be misrepresented.
...
Broadcasters should not give undue prominence to the views and opinions of particular persons or bodies on matters of political or industrial controversy and matters relating to current public policy in all the programmes included in any service (listed above) taken as a whole.
The document goes on to define the following terms
Meaning of “undue prominence of views and opinions”:
Undue prominence is a significant imbalance of views aired within coverage of matters of political or industrial controversy or matters relating to current public policy.
Meaning of “programmes included in any service…Taken as a whole”:
Programmes included in any service taken as a whole means all programming on a service dealing with the same or related issues within an appropriate period.
Campbell's 'Outrage' week seems a good example of a breach of these guidelines. The repeated editing of Ian Kelly's response to questions, the repeated airing of Susan Stweart's opinion without mention of her previous role as Jack McConnell's chief press officer, the airing again of Jack McConnell's views, the complete absence of any views not in support of the 'damage' and 'backlash' theories, the presenting of these theories as fact....
Taken as a whole, Campbell's broadcasts would seem to suggest there was indeed undue prominence given to one set of views and opinions.
Perhaps instead of complaining to the BBC a complaint to Ofcom may be a better use of time.
Ofcom recently carried out an investigation into Derren Brown's recent show as a result of only 27 complaints.
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#234 U14094468 ... that is shocking and there was me thinking the BBC had to be balanced and non politically biased its hard to see how she couldnt be with all those freinds.
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Have just read Kelvin MacKenzie's article. He says he isn't anti Scottish. Certainly sounds like it to me or am I being over-sensitive and thin skinned? Also he quotes the poisonous and ridiculous David Starkey. What a joke.
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Ofcom
"We can consider complaints about programmes transmitted by all broadcasters licensed in the UK as well as the BBC and S4C.
However, we cannot consider complaints about accuracy and impartiality in BBC TV and radio programmes. These complaints have to be dealt with by the BBC Trust."
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233. sidthesceptic
Agreed - top to bottom. It's getting be one of the more frequent sentiments in the media - maybe it's time to let Scotland go.
This is no sideshow.
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234. U14094468
Wow! with that CV, it's no wonder she's on BBC Scotland's political team ;)
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RE BBC Scotland. Even though we see this bias and hard line questioning against SNP folks whilst the likes of Murphy et all, i still havent seen them get one up on Nicola or Kenny as they always seem to put the presenter back in his/her place. Its time they woke up that the public are not stupid as can be heard on the phone ins in the morning or on newpaper comments online.
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Kelvin MacKenzie is a loud mouthed foul oaf.
I have not forgiven the man for his uncalled for rant on QT aided and abetted by the " impartiality" of the BBBC.
To name another insulting oaf in Starkey adds insult to injury and yet again we can cite QT and an " Impartial " BBBC.
I see that JR has a successful campaign running on every blog site I visit about Glenn Campbell and his misrepresentation of the American attitude to Mr Megrahi and his release.
By way of cheering myself up , I visited Atticus, and discovered that Mr Salmond had told Simon Pia to ," B^&&er Off!"
Hurray! say I!
I think that the SNP should start playing hard ball with the journalists who insult and spin against them.
A few walk outs would be good leaving an interviewer like a fish out of water , like that lawyer chap Clive somebody, who obviously irritated the Bee Gees.
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237. U14094468
I did a search on ofcom's site to see where the right place to lodge a complaint based on impartiality (lack of), i stumbled across an addition to a memorandum of understanding between ofcom and the beeb (trust).
Some the content -
"4. Under section 46(2)(b) of the Agreement, however, the BBC is required to observe that standard (and the other standards set by Ofcom) only to the extent that it does not concern the accuracy or impartiality of the content of any BBC programme. This reflects the Trust‘s exclusive jurisdiction to ensure the accuracy or impartiality of the BBC’s programme content.
Jurisdiction and addition to the MoU
5. No difficulty arises when a service/programme gives rise to an issue of accuracy or impartiality alone: the Trust has sole jurisdiction. But sometimes a single service/programme gives rise to an issue both of offence and/or harm, and accuracy.
6. In such a situation, Ofcom and the Trust have agreed that the following approach will apply: both organisations have jurisdiction only if the fundamental issue satisfies three conditions:
* It is not an issue arising from News/news headlines or Current Affairs content as defined in the Memorandum of Understanding; and
* It arises from deceptive or misleading content; and
* It arises from (a) an explicit on-air invitation to the audience to participate in a vote(-1-) or competition and harm or offence to members of the public is, or is likely to be, caused or (b) an on-air invitation to the audience/members of the public to act in a manner likely to result in material harm and/or offence (for example, actions likely to result in detrimental life changing consequences such as injury to health or financial well being).
Otherwise, the BBC Trust has sole jurisdiction over issues concerning accuracy or impartiality (including issues arising from deceptive or misleading content) in all the BBC’s services/programmes. "
My take on it was that (worryingly) the BBC Trust would have jurisdiction over complaints of impartiality, though I'm a complete n00b at this sort of stuff.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
243. ubinworryinmasheep
My gut feeling is to agree with you, and hope that viewers will see will lot getting an easy ride and still struggling and another lot dealing with a rougher time and coming out well.
I worry, though, that the strategy of telling the same story all the time does seem to work. I recently came across an article which described some scientific study done on why we seem so happy to accept what we are told at face value. The reasons why are plausible, and the defence is to make the reader to engage in some critical thinking over it.
Any ideas for snapping people out of a state of blind acceptance when the message, media and delivery are in the same hands?
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244. At 3:56pm on 27 Sep 2009, Diabloandco:
i fully agree about your views on mackenzie. but rather than walking out, i'd like to see whoever he is interviewing turn the tables one him. perhaps by highlighting some of the more underhand ways he got his stories, the way he upsets various people (ie liverpool). walking out of an interview is not the way.
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244 DIABLO: How does one visit Atticus, please?
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#234, if half of that about catriona renton is true she should be fired on the spot.
Why on earth should anyone pay the license fee to be pumped such propaganda?!
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Why is it that Labour in London could get a statement out of the BBC National Network about their impartiality when dealing with political matters, but BBC Scotland seem to be able to broadcast their biased trash with impunity. It appears that the BBC Trust are either turning a blind eye or they are complicit in BBC Scotland's activities.
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So far this week we have had Digby Jones trying to belittle the Scottish government, Kelvin Mckenzie and his usual rant, and Jim Murphy saying in a general election the SNP are a sideshow. Nice to see how the unionists see Scotland, tell me again why people vote to be treated in this manner? No a vote for Labour is a wasted vote, what good has it done the poorest parts of Scotland which all happen to be in Labour strongholds, so vote Labour for more of the same.
Then again be bold and vote for a party that puts Scotland first, you know it makes sense!
Glad to see too that more and more people are commenting on the BBC bias, I wonder how much longer they can deny it?
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#211 mrbfaethedee
Not that I've seen. UK Polling Report (An Anthony Wells/YouGov co-production is the nearest I've seen, and it has nowhere near the rigour of 538.
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#212 mrbfaethedee
Mackenzie isn't just late to the party. Everyone else went home hours ago, and he's left sitting on the pavement with his cairry-oot weeping quietly into his Buckie.
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#244. I see that JR has a successful campaign running on every blog site I visit about Glenn Campbell and his misrepresentation of the American attitude to Mr Megrahi and his release.
*takes a bow* I try my humble American bestest. Actually, you need to get about more if it's every one you visit. I only occasionally post on one other blog because it does rather "out" me.
I try to keep a low profile when it comes to politics. Out of my bailiwick so to speak.
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Haha! This amused me:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1216324/Stiff-expressionless-Why-Gordon-Browns-Lego-effigy-life-like-yet.html
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Help!
Moderators
or beeb-blogging veterans.
I 've got a post (#245) saying 'referred to the moderators'.
I've had no inforamtion to say who has referred it, or why it has been referred in order to understand my error and learn, or to defend it.
Anyone got any pointers? Clicking on 'explain this' tells me only the basics of moderation.
If it has been referred, that means someone other than the moderators has viewed it, and asked for it to be removed, yes?
Anyone here do it? No big deal, but I'd appreciate knowing why you referred it.
If not it means someone is reading the comments and while not feeling strongly enough to contribute and engage nonetheless feels strongly enough to ask for the rmoval of my blog post.
As far as I can recall, the content was a link to an ofcom page. I included some of its content. It was about jursdiction between bbc trust and ofcom.
Once more MODERATORS, why do i have no explanation as to your censoring my post?
Referrer, if you are a contributor to these forums, i can take it on the chin if you have a problem with what i'm posting, just let me know anyway.
If you're not contributing to these blogs, but asked for the removal of my ost, why do you have a problem with my linking to, and quoting from a publicly available document from the website of a national regulatory body. Find a spine, make an account and talk to me!
(here was me about to comment on the pleasant, pedestrian, Sunday feel to this comment thread!)
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Brian - You REALLY want to take something of a pulse of Scottish political mood?
Search for 'Labour' in the HUNDREDS of blog entries in this thread.
Pull a single sanguine comment from it, or even a morsel of anything remotely supportive.
? Can't find anything you say? OK then. Next Q.
Is it natural, from a media standing, to have such a HUGH imbalance in mood between your broadcasting/print media and new media?
What are the people saying Brian?
Are you going to comment on it, answer them - at all?
You might want to ask any media or communications trainees (who are running for your coffee and morning croissant) for the answer.
You WANT the answer you say?
OK. The answer Brian is NO - it is not. Not nearly.
Ergo, perhaps one of your investigations might be on the importance/value of new media in politics? Sad, no journalist in Scotland seemingly wishes to pick up such an obvious story - I wonder why?
Oh wait - Mrs.Brown is a popular twitterer right? Couldn't you create the means for a show on that wee ship?
Irrespective of the fact that you - and others - have done a grand job of ignoring such an obvious swell of pro-SNP feeling.
The people who pick up the papers with one hand, and throw it in the bin.
The people who flick through the channels, stopping for about 8-nanoseconds on whatever Glenn Campbell drivel/attack is being spouted at [place name of SNP politician here] - before sighing wearily and flicking on the Discovery channel.
Discovery, Brian - something you and yours at the BBC are not too good at. Perhaps for fear of the truth.
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#234
"The wee lassie.."
A very impressive list but a sign of failure nevertheless as she had to settle for propagandising on BBC Scotland instead of doing useful work.
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257. mrbfaethedee
"Help!
Moderators
or beeb-blogging veterans.
I 've got a post (#245) saying 'referred to the moderators'."
The mods are a law unto themselves, unaccountable the same as the BBC my only thoughts are that the 'super'visor mods do a sweep to justify there elevated positions due to their better education!
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258. Gingerbadger
"Oh wait - Mrs.Brown is a popular twitterer right? Couldn't you create the means for a show on that wee ship? "
Is that what you call someone married to the Twit PM, must remember that.LoL
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#260 Welcome to the club, mrbfaethedee. I get something like 75% (minimum) of my comments about my great admiration for Glenn Campbell and the high level of honesty in his reporting removed...
Why do ya suppose that is? *rolls eyes*
Just assume appropriate insults given. I can't think of anything that could possibly get past the moderators at the moment. And you can apply the same to pretty much all BBC reporting. How the heck did the people of UK end up paying license fees to get fed such biased pap?
The entire concept of neutral reportage--of simply telling the TRUTH and letting people make up their own minds--is missing. What has gone wrong?
Someone on another blog pointed out to me that we Americans don't get that on America's Fox News. They're right, of course. But I don't pay a LICENSE FEE for it either. And have the choice of dozens of other sources. One of my choices USED to be BBC.
*sigh* End of my daily BBC rant. I'll try to find another subject to go on about. I'm sure you're all tired of hearing an American view of BBC, Glenn Campbell, et al.
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260. cynicalHighlander
That's what I thought initially, but it says it's been 'referred to the moderators'.
Implying there is a referrer who is not a moderator.
Speak up.
If I don't get some information by tomorrow I'm going to put a complaint in to the bbc, and possibly ofcom, I'm also considering letting my MSP, MEP, and MP know about it. I can perfectly accept the notion of post referral, and removal, but not silent censorship with no mechanism for explanation or appeal.
To offer no explanation, nor say who the referrer was AND leave the post blank except for a 'this post has been referred to the moderators' could easily tarnish my reputation online, while at the same time allowing a free hand to someone who wants to prevent me (or anyone else) from legitimately contributing in this forum.
Brian Taylor, this is your blog, in your name, could you please provide me with some information about this situation.
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NuLabour ‘Compass think-tank’ warns that a Cameron victory could mean political oblivion for Labour.
Polling conducted for Compass by YouGov to accompany the report shows that, if the Conservatives win power, 34% of the Scottish electorate will be more like to vote Yes in the referendum on independence promised by the SNP by the end of 2010
Roll On 2010 Things can only get better.
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262. JRMacClure
Thanks JRMacClure (and cynicalHighlander), i just find it wrong - it doesn't say i've broken house rules, which is what i'd assume if the mods prevented its publication (we are premodded). So someone referred it. As i say - it was just info - a link to an ofcom page, and a quote (copy&paste) of its content. It was referred, it was about the jurisdiction of impartiality between the beeb trust and ofcom. Jurisdiction looked to me like it was with the bbc trust. That was all.
Anyway, I'm sure more seasoned pro's than I have fallen foul of this - it just bugs me who would do it and not say so?
As far as Glen Campbell goes, one of the reasons people might get sick hearing about him is that we never seem to stop hearing from him :)
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Herald - "Brown stands by Baroness Scotland"
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/politics/brown-stands-by-baroness-scotland-1.922432
I'm genuinely puzzled by any politician with the political skills to become PM, making such a crass error.
It would have been so easy to get her to say "I'm sorry. I made an error of judgment that is incompatible with my position. I resign." Brief story - bit of respect for someone admitting responsibility. Everyone moves on.
However, the whole sorry saga goes on, and any lingering belief that the political class in Westminster sees any relationship between its behaviours and what it demands from its subjects dwindles further.
Even ignoring the immorality, this is simply bad politics. Brown increasingly reminds me of Nixon in his second term.
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258. Gingerbadger - the lack of Labour support in Scottish blogs is striking. Scotland is one of Labour's last remaining bastions of support, yet even in Scotland the party is crumbling fast. You would imagine that Scottish political blogs and websites would be chock full of Labour supporters energetically putting the case for Labour and the Union. But they are nowhere to be seen. They have no arguments, no intellectual or moral credibility. And the worst thing of all for them is that they know this too. It's a hard place to find yourself in when you see yourself as the heirs to James Maxton.
This week the Labour party conference has begun, the last Labour conference before the General Election, and no doubt the last conference where Labour is the governing party. They've become the Zombie party, a similation of a living thing just going through the motions until it finally falls apart due to its own putrifaction. Gordon Brown is the perfect figurehead for the modern Labour party - shambling, dissembling and dishevelled. A man whose moral compass points steadfastly in the direction of his self-interest.
Labour party activists now have to defend all those things they spent so many years criticising the Conservatives for - privatisation, bankers' bailouts, nuclear missiles, allying ourselves with American right wing adventurism, state authoritarianism, increasing taxation on the most poorly paid to provide a tax cut to the better paid. The inglorious list goes on and on. Labour are bereft of ideas and vision, becalmed in a sea of sleaze. They have no answer to the question - "Where do we go from here?" All they can offer is more of the same, but this time with cuts in public spending.
Labour are left with only the attack dogs of the media to speak for them, professional pundits paid to offer their opinions. It's hard for any reasonable person to believe these people have any motivation other than the self-interest which so animates their masters. But even they can't make any positive arguments for supporting Labour, and they can't offer any positive reasons founded in logic and reason why we should support the Union. The only tactic left to them is the constant grind of negativity as they seek some perceived weakness in the SNP. As their position becomes less tenable, they'll become even more strident.
There will be a catastrophic drop in Labour support at the next election, thousands of former Labour supporters will turn to the SNP or simply won't vote. They'll be as absent from the ballot box as they are from this and other blogs and websites. And I don't think James Maxton will weep for New Labour's passing.
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/sep/27/compass-labour-conservatives-election-cameron
The polling shows that 31% of Scots would currently back independence and 53% oppose it. But the extra 34% who say they might be swayed to support a split if the Tories came to power could tilt the balance in favour. "This could be enough to see a Yes vote through," Compass argues.
Is that actually saying what I think it does?
#266. Oldnat, I find it mind-boggling.
Add to that the apparent fact that the biggest influence on him is now a 29 yo "yes-girl" and you have to wonder if they stories about his failing mental health might be true.
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266. oldnat
If your short of friends you cling on to the few that are left, thats my take anyway. One could go on and on but he's not a leader just a bully to keep himself in No10 and the UK will pay a very heavy price for the last 12yrs of Nulab policies.
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#266 oldnat
Possibly another slant is that, due to her position, she knows were the NuLabour skeletons are hidden?
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#264 Roll_On_2010
I'll want to see the details from the YouGov poll that Compass commissioned, but they are quite staggering figures.
The "more inclined to" question is always difficult to interpret, but at first glance this looks like
31% For Independence : 34% certainly prepared to look at the issues and can be persuaded either way : 16% DK (who probably won't vote) : 19% diehard Unionists (less than 1 in 5).
I'd like to see similar data reanalysed by "certainty to vote", but if the DKs are excluded, and there was an 84% turnout - unlikely, though not impossible, then that breaks down as
37% For : 40% to make up their minds : 23% Against. What a referendum campaign that would be!
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JR , I think someone has pinched you and added to Subrosa and the Scotsman, no bad thing!
But I agree ,I should get out more!
Florence , Atticus is Sunday Times.
I read the dead tree copy and paid 2 quid to set off my ulcer with Mrs Cochrane and MacKenzie.
Atticus can be amusing or irritating,
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#271 oldnat
I agree.
YouGov have not published their poll details yet but I will keep an eye open for them.
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#272. Ok, I confess to posting one Subrosa--but don't tell anyone. I thought the Scotsman never published my comments. For some strange reason, they don't LIKE me! *sniffles*
Ok, two blogs then. ;-)
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274. JRMacClure
"Ok, two blogs then. ;-)"
Every little helps.
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258. At 7:33pm on 27 Sep 2009, Gingerbadger:
be very careful, you cannot make the assumption that we've got the election in the bag. far from it. the general election should return a fair few snp seats, but we still have a further 12 months (?) until the scottish elections.
cameron is by no means home and dry. there is a marked difference between cameron in 2009 and blair in 1996/7. blair never came across as a "toff" (for want of a better word), and cameron still hasn't made that important crossover in the areas that matter - the north of england. blair managed this in the south of england.
the snp needs to start working on the campaigning now. get the messages out. show what has been achieved, what has still to be achieved, and the reasons for not achieving things, but without the usual "wisnae us".
class sizes - ok, not exactly there but trying.
1,000 police on the streets.
lockerbie bomber - stick to facts and the law, do not get drawn into the arguments about deals.
forth road bridge - scrap the damn thing, it's a liability. wait.
health - show what has been achieved, quite a lot.
tuition fees - difficult one, but i think the majoriry of voters would see the benefit of certain courses were exempt. education while important, is very expensive for the taxpayer. focus on key skills.
preparation should also be made for the referendum. there will be a lot of difficult questions to be answered, and the answers must be convincing. that means everyine singing from the same hymn sheet. one little mistake and the media will jump all over.
266. At 8:16pm on 27 Sep 2009, oldnat:
can you imagine if that had been our own lord advocate?
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I wonder if this is a bad omen of things to come for NuLabour?
Five-star hacks too good at football for Labour.
Labour suffered an early setback as its conference got under way today - losing the traditional football match against Lobby journalists.
A commanding performance from the fourth estate saw the party's team, which included Cabinet ministers Ed Balls and Andy Burnham, go down 5-1.
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235 -# ubin & #241 mrb thanks for your kind words. the other way to look at this of course is if you think you are still a world power and the world is watching ,as if they have nothing else to do, is it best "to lose a part of your country" or is it best to "get rid of a bit"that is irritating and not a bit like the rest of it?
How would a "world power" deal with it. just wondering ?
personally i couldn't care less ,the second choice is probably easier ,as long as the end result is the same.
Sid
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#276 barbarian9
"cameron still hasn't made that important crossover in the areas that matter - the north of england"
The Financial Times recently did a poll of polls on their regional data that suggested that the Tories had moved ahead of Labour in the North of England. I'm a bit suspicious of it since, although they will have managed to aggregate around a thousand polled responses, the regional data isn't adjusted to Northern English demographics, but to UK ones. However, it does suggest a distinct possibility that Labour have lost their dominance even there.
I'm sure that Eilish does her own cleaning! ;-)
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#277 Roll_On_2010
Labour should have fielded Frank McAveety. His regard for the rules of football is as low as his regard for honesty in politics.
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# 274 JRMacClure
I thought it might have been you. The writing was similar.
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I see the Baroness is under more fire; this time on her expenses. It looks like the whole of parliament is corrupt when it comes to claiming expenses. Baroness Scotland expenses Is there no end to this scandal?
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Appears that the Unionistas are already treating Scotland as a separate country within the UK.
ID Checks to travel across border.
Draconian use of terror laws could see Big Brother-style identity checks forced on all air passengers arriving in Scotland from the rest of Britain.
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#281. Ha! Yes, I suspect my intense dislike for certain BBC "newscasters" (using the term advisedly) might come through.
#282. Can they manage ANOTHER scandal or two? This should certainly help a bounce from the Labour conference.
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Online Ed Here
I clicked the link at comment 268 to the Guardian article and had a quick read. The poll was commissioned by Compass so I then went to the compass website and read their own article on the report but it made no mention of the 53% / 31% figures.
The compass article can be located by clicking the link below.
Click Here
An interesting aspect is the number of Scots who would change their vote on independence from No to Yes on the basis of who wins the Westminster election. A sure sign that the support for the Union does not have very strong foundations.
BBC and Glenn Campbell:
I've spent the last few days going through Good Morning Scotland's daily broadcasts for this week in an effort at analysing the coverage from America provided by the BBC Scotland team. Glenn Campbell of course dominates the said coverage and I've produced a transcript of his offerings with a view to writing an article on them.
Listening to the shows however uncovers occasional little gems and nuggets that may be interpretted as being indicative of a culture that is less than happy with the SNP forming the current Scottish Government.
The broadcaster who, after interviewing Jackie Bailie ends the interview with the words "thanks Jackie" - surprisingly informal and familiar. Then there is Shonach McKinnon who, when covering the class sizes item, informed lisners that the SNP policy was "widely believed to have generated thousands of votes from teachers and parents". The subliminal suggestion of course is that the SNP have deliberately 'misled' the public in order to garner votes.
Friday also saw an apparently inaccurate report from The Herald being used by Labour's health spokesman Richard Baker to attack the SNP, another 'fight with Westminster' was the claim by the paper. Only later in an interview with Nicola Sturgeon is it explained that the article is not accurate.
The previous week also heard David Whitton tell Glenn Campbell (and listeners) that the National Conversation has cost £8 million.
Anyway, my article 'Glenn Outrageous in America' might provide some comfort to the many people who were left distraught when 'Glenn Campbell's USA diary' ended rather abruptly after only one day - Monday.
Monday also saw US state department spokesman Ian Kelly dismiss Glenn's suggestion that Scotland needed to be forgiven by America for the release of Mehrahi and add that there was no damage to relations between the two nations.
It was of course merely a coincidence that the diary was abandoned that same day ....
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Online Ed Here
Many people will be aware that BBC Scotland have shown a fondness for interviewing US relatives of victims of Pan Am 103, the interviews have basically repeated the same line - one of being against the decision.
Now, the BBC have interviewed the same relatives more than once and many will assume that there is a unanimaty amongst US relatives against the decision which is why the BBC only ever seem to interview those against it.
However, there are US relatives who support the decision (as there are US journalists) yet they have been ignored by the BBC.
One such victim relative is Caroline Stevenson whose son Syracuse student Sandy Phillips was aboard Pan Am 103, Stevenson states that she is "not disturbed" by al-Megrahi's release.
"Whether he's in jail or whether he's with his family, it doesn't impact me," she said. "He should be able to be with his family and die in peace. And I hope he has found some peace." "I am not disturbed by it. I feel like if he is dying of prostate cancer, I don't have any problems at all with him being able to be with his family as he dies."
Stevenson also added that she doesn't understand the U.S. government's opposition to al-Megrahi's release. "I strongly believe in the Scottish Judical system, and I support their decision," she said. "The people of Scotland have been very good to me and my family."
Not quite fitting with the BBC's portrayal of US relatives is it, nor is the widespread view that Many U.S. politicians are claiming that the British government may have been seeking lucrative oil deals with the Libyans and pressured the Scots to release Megrahi.
Instead we have been fed the 'Outrage', 'Backlash' and 'Damaged Relations' lines continuously, it will of course continue when the Holyrood Justice Committee issues it's politically motivated 'enquiry' result soon.
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#285 'Glenn Campbell's USA diary' ended rather abruptly after only one day - Monday.
And well it should have! It was one place where he gave his question about whether the US "forgave Scotland" and skipped the frankly harsh slap-down from the State Department spokesman that Scotland didn't need to be forgiven. He in effect pretended that the only response was that "the US was moving on".
I immediately complained to BBC. I thought (and still feel) that it was outrageous. The man should be fired or at LEAST brought under control but that's true of many of the so-called reporters. Someone objected to my saying that it was fitting coverage for Pravda so here. It is fitting coverage for FOX NEWS. And I consider that an even worse insult.
Let us see if the moderators allow me to say that. Always a question. =)
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Brian "blether" time for a new blog !
How can you have two days off at conference time ?
Some of the best chat is oozing !!!
Mr 12% Gray has a diminished stature !!!
joint "TEAM LABOUR"approach !!! sub Iain Gray.
If your demoted from your 12% peak,where do you go ?
Not wee Wendy again !!!
Backwards and backwards ! Salmond getting a soft time !!!
How can DARLING call another,incompetent ? beating his chest
and saying I've got balls !!!
As regards E Balls(I can save £2bill)some school pays £35k
for a £1k copier !!!
Give me strength !!!
However the future is ----- !
The "Spitting Image" rubber-faced opposition front bench
is frighting.
A bunch whose response to Vince Cable's mansion tax is
that it's only small change !!!
Brian-get back and observe 12% Gray v Labour Party.
Hope to link 2mor
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Brian
Forgot to say enjoy your post at the BBC. Giving good service.
Sad to think that if Cameron won the election
BBC could mean "Best Before Cameron"
Sad,sad days could be ahead !!!
Form a new BORDER Norwich/Watford/Bristol/Bournemouth
and let the Tories call it LITTLE ENGLAND
free of the Northerners/Welsh/Scots/Irish/Europeans etc.
Who would invade Little England now ???
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oldnat, your #378 on the previous thread was excellent! A fitting way to end any thread, which is why I posted this comment on it here instead.
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#289 spinspamspun
Form a new BORDER Norwich/Watford/Bristol/Bournemouth
and let the Tories call it LITTLE ENGLAND
free of the Northerners/Welsh/Scots/Irish/Europeans etc.
Who would invade Little England now ???
spinspamspun, coming from the North of England, I can state that border has always been there it starts at the Watford Gap.
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#285 U14094468/Online Ed
Thanks for the link.
I was especially drawn to the first blog of the article:
Posted by Robert
on 27 September 2009, 7:34:56 PM
[quote]
Compass fears that Scottish independence could leave the Tories in power in England for good. I think that without Scotland Labour would be hard pressed to win power on its own ever again but that this is no bad thing - they would be forced to do an electoral pact with the Liberals and agree to PR
In the short run the loss of Scotland would be a disaster for the English left but in the long run it might force us to clean up our act. Tribalist loyalty to the Labour party by people like Prescott and Jack Straw's implacable hostility to PR are what made Blue Labour possible.
Just as the Bishop's War in Scotland triggered the English Civil War in the seventeenth century so Scottish independence could be the catalyst for the English constitutional revolution.
[unquote]
Notwithstanding Scotlands Independence, I can only hope that the above is what the future unrolls for England. The only thing currently standing in the way is Cleggy.
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272 DIABLO: Thank you.
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#292 Roll_On_2010
Or John Constable on NR's blog
"For starters, we English need a political revolution in our heads."
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Scotsman - "Crisis that goes much deeper than Labour limpness"
http://news.scotsman.com/politics/Crisis-that-goes-much-deeper.5682617.jp
Daniel Finkelstein, once an adviser to William Hague, recently said that political parties are about feeling. "Voters support parties because of how they make them feel about themselves," he argues, and Labour haven't made people feel good for a very long time.
What has the party to show for three election victories and a decade in power? Beyond the usual list of achievements, the depressing truth is Labour, like the Tories and Lib Dems, have long lost their traditional moorings and no longer represent what they used to – or indeed us.
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Brian
Are you on the "talking hats" trades holiday ?
Pressure cooker politics Gray v Murphy building up !
What an uneven splat !!!
A discoloured gray ???
Brian,stop holidaying or posing in Brighton,
get back here !!!
Got a headache !
Tune to Talk/Sport ???
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Scotsman
http://news.scotsman.com/politics/Gray-challenges-First-Minister-to.5682641.jp
Murphy - "Scotland is the most powerful small nation on Earth"
1. That is only true if Scotland controls England. That's a great message to send to the English!
2. If Scotland is powerful because it is a little bit of the UK, then proportionately the Welsh are even more powerful, and the Cornish must rule the world!
3. Israel (population 7,411,000 - though only 5,593,000 of them are Jews) has a rather better claim.
4. If we wanted to be more powerful by being part of a larger country, we could apply to be the 51st state of the USA. Currently the Cherokee nation in the USA is more powerful than we are.
5. What is it with these Brit men, wanting to dominate others? As JR suggests is it to make up for their being small in "parts of their anatomy"
6. Murphy making an argument is like my 3 year old grandson explaining why he needs another cookie. Strong in volume, constant in repetition, somewhat weak on justification.
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#295. At 00:30am on 28 Sep 2009, oldnat wrote:
Scotsman - "Crisis that goes much deeper than Labour limpness"
http://news.scotsman.com/politics/Crisis-that-goes-much-deeper.5682617.jp
Daniel Finkelstein, once an adviser to William Hague, recently said that political parties are about feeling. "Voters support parties because of how they make them feel about themselves," he argues, and Labour haven't made people feel good for a very long time.
What has the party to show for three election victories and a decade in power? Beyond the usual list of achievements, the depressing truth is Labour, like the Tories and Lib Dems, have long lost their traditional moorings and no longer represent what they used to – or indeed us.
Good gracious me! Something in the Scotsman that is literate, well written and not an anti-SNP rant. Is the world as we know it coming to an end? Next thing we know the BBC will stop acting as a Labour mouthpiece.
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Roll-on-2010 (u must b a tory)!!!
What game of cards do you have ?
Which side of the New Border are you on,at the Watford Gap ???
A Little Englander or a free thinking multi-national peoples
North of Watford ???
Look forward to a new passport !!!
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I missed this earlier (apologies if anyone has linked to it)
Joan McAlpine's "Time to mourn Liberal values" must make uncomfortable reading for any remaining Liberals in the LDs.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/scotland/article6850673.ece
"But since the election of 2007 and the arrival of Tavish Scott as Scottish leader, the party’s main motivation appears to be undermining the Scottish government. There’s nothing wrong with effective opposition, but not when it entails more flip-flopping than a flounder on a fishing boat."
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#299 spinspamspun
Come back when you have started shaving…. you may get an answer….mind you that’s not a promise!
You sound a bit like Derek Barker… early doors. But, fortunately, he was a bit more grown up and lucid
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#300 oldnat
Another day, another poll. This time in the Telegraph. ICM have not publish their data yet.
Voters prefer David Cameron to Gordon Brown as Prime Minister.
Just 20 per cent believe Mr Brown is the best man for the job out of the current three main party leaders.
Even a quarter of Labour voters backed Mr Cameron, the poll found.
Potentially most alarming for Labour is that the Lib Dems are only three points adrift on 23 per cent.
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#301 Roll_On_2010
I remember derek/giggle/spin once describing himself as a cancer patient (if true he has my sympathy).
Does anyone know if the drug treatment for cancer patients explain rapid transitions from lucidity to surreal thinking?
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#300 oldnat
I do note that the ICM poll is only a ‘pretendy one’ but it does make nice reading.
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Where are those ICM poll results? I don't see them on UK Polling Report.
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Ha! My comment on Nick Robinson's blog that it would be a good idea to elect a PM with a backbone got reported.
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#302 Roll_On_2010
I've been looking at the ComRes poll for the Indy.
Scots numbers so small as to be insignificant, but I found the following interesting -
Col 2 is voting intention, Col 3 is "Generally do you think of yourself as"
Party, Col 2, Col 3
SNP, 24%, 28%
Lab, 29%, 24%
Con, 14%, 13%
L_D, 8%, 8%
Grn, 5%, 5%
DK, 20%
ComRes also have a series of questions asking about other potential Labour leaders, but UK Polling Report has a good explanation of why this is pretty worthless
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Great photo of the Labour Confernce Hall over at SNP Tactical Voting
http://www.snptacticalvoting.com/2009/09/comres-poll-lib-dems-level-with-labour.html
Just like Dundee!
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Guido has a similar photo.
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#309 oldnat
Guido has a similar photo.
I noticed that he also has a post on Baroness Scotland.
UKBA Want to Know the Truth About the Missing Passport.
I reckon that episode still has plenty of mileage to go.
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#310 Roll_On_2010
Do you know anything about English law? If in such a case, an employer who was being investigated ny the UKBA was a lawyer, and was found out to have lied tio them - would they be disbarred?
And (of course!!) an entirely unrelated question - Can a non-lawyer be the English Attorney General?
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This really isn't what you want to hear while looking for a convention bounce:
http://order-order.com/2009/09/27/ukba-want-to-know-the-truth-about-the-missing-passport/
Is it possible that Labour might actually go down in the polls this week?
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Sorry, Roll on. I see you posted that link. I've been poking around and should have checked.
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Iain McWhirter in the Herald
http://www.heraldscotland.com/comment/iain-macwhirter/not-even-another-war-could-save-gordon-s-bacon-now-1.922520
"The British people have made their decision. They want no more of this hypocritical administration that passes laws on illegal immigration and then excuses ministers when they break them; that presided over the greatest ever increase in debt and yet claims to be prudent; that starts wars it can’t finish, laying down soldiers lives for no reason; that promised a more equal society and then turned it into a bankers’ paradise. I’m what you might call a 'natural' Labour supporter, in many ways, and even I’ve given up on the party. Gordon is so over, not even a third world war could save him."
Now I don't know what "a 'natural Labour supporter" is, but if such have given up on Labour, then the result seems inevitable.
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#311 oldnat
I do not have a clue about the law. In fact I find it very difficult at times to know whether I am breaking civil or criminal law. There have been that many changes in such a short time, you lose track.
I think they can be disbarred or suspended….one recollection I have is Harriet’s sister was suspended, perhaps you could Google it.
But I will do some investigations. Not tonight or should I say this morning.
#313 JRMacClure
Easily done I have done it myself.
With regards BS it transpires that Max Clifford is handling her publicity. Wouldn’t it be great if he made a significant press release during the NuLabour shindig…. say one hour before Duff made his speech.
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#314. By the way, we have the same silly law here. Employers have to keep copies of proof of eligibility to work. Idiotic.
But this can't possibly be good for Labour.
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Just read the following at the foot of one of Guido’s blogs:
Excellent news, remember how Max Clifford was around for the scandals at the end of the Major regime. He is the politico-media equivalent of the undertaker.
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#316 JRMacClure
I think that this story has two levels:
1 As oldnat points out at his post at #311 the legal implications.
2 The general public’s perception.
Either way it will be very difficult for Duff to draw a line under this episode.
With regards the second level here is an article from 2006.
Illegal immigrants employed by Home Office.
The Home Office faces the ultimate embarrassment as five illegal workers were caught cleaning the offices of the immigration service.
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I'm not too sure about this story from BBC Scotland: Building trade 'loses 8,500 jobs'. If you read the article it says:
Based on the latest employment figures from ConstructionSkills, extrapolated across the industry as a whole, this suggests that about 8,500 Scottish construction workers have lost their jobs this year.
Yet, when I went to their site it said: Whilst we have good data on public sector spending, the overall picture is blurred by the lack of reliable information on spending by the private sector.
Now, I don't know about you, but to me this figure of 8,500 sounds like a guess to me. If it is then why are the BBC trying to put it over as some sort of reliable figure? Even Michael Levack, Scottish Building Federation chief executive, said:
Clearly, the picture across the industry is not uniformly negative. A minority of firms are weathering the economic downturn well and taking on more workers as a result.
Also you would have to take into account that because of the nature of the building industry, jobs get lost at the completion of contracts. This was the reason I came to London in the first place. London used to be a place where a joiner was guaranteed work summer and winter; it isn't now.
I would accept that there is a reduction in jobs in the building industry (you would during a recession) and I would also accept that this BBC article may warrant an article in the Scotland news but why is it also in the Scotland Politics section? I had a look at the other 'regions' of the UK on the BBC site and cannot find anything relating to the building industry there. I suspect that this is more unreliable data put about by BBC Scotland to try and show how bad it is under the SNP.
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#319. I think you're right about it's another "things are bad under the SNP" attempt, but I think they have a problem. It can't be BOTH the fault of Labour and the SNP. Well, I suppose one might try to make a case that the SNP could have found better ways of handling the problems foisted by Labour failures. But it is hard to blame a worldwide financial meltdown on the SNP--the same problem they've had all along with blaming the SNP for all this.
If you're going to say the SNP could have handled it better--a HOW is nice. It's why this doesn't appear to be selling well overall. You just can't convince people that the whole world is in a recession and it's the SNP's fault. Unless the SNP sneaked to the US and planted a bomb under Lehman Brothers. WAIT! Wasn't Alex Salmond in the US at some point? =)
Nah. I still don't think you can sell that.
Seriously, it just doesn't wash no matter how much they try and I don't see much sign that as a tactic it works--judging by polls and so forth.
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"The Scottish Parliament has passed world leading climate change legislation, and we have an obligation to make our full contribution to the global challenge we all face, which is why Scotland should be at the centre of this process - not relegated to the fringes by Ed Miliband."
Dr Richard Dixon, director of WWF Scotland and board member of Stop Climate Chaos Scotland, said: "At a time when the world desperately needs good examples, it is clearly ridiculous that Scottish ministers will not be allowed to be part of the official UK delegation.
"The negotiations for Copenhagen are finely balanced and Scotland's excellent Climate Change Act could make a difference, but only if people actually get to hear about it."
Don't it make you brits proud to be british?
D McN
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And balancing the story about construction losing jobs was this below.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/8120693.stm
I hate to accuse BBC of balance, but I'm not sure they didn't come close in this coverage. I might well be missing something though. Although it doesn't credit the SNP exactly but I believe that Alex Neil is SNP, is he not?
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# 320 JRMacClure
Taking your point a little further, I can see that if it looks certain that the Scots will vote for independence (and this is not a clear cut case) then expect a surge of 'how wonderful the SNP are' stories appearing in BBC Scotland as those journalists(?) desperately try and position themselves to keep their jobs in the new version of the Scottish Broadcasting Corporation. However, I would suspect that certain journalists(?) will be wheeched away down south to continue their tirade against the Scottish government.
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Online Ed Here
Having had a read through the papers and the comments here, one thing is clear - Labour are being savaged by the media in England.
Scotland however continues to see the usual limp rubbish being headlined. The BBC offer a piece of guesswork on losses in the building industry as the main headline, whilst both The Herald and The Scotsman run with Iain Gray's plea for a debate with Salmond over independence.
There is also a piece of nonsense in The Herald over the fact that more killers have received compassionate release during this term of the Scottish Government than previous terms.
The building industry story is one area that ought to lead to a debate on the constitution. The complete lack of powers open to the Scottish Government, exemplified by the pleas for funds to be brought forward for the Forth Road Bridge, needs addressing.
However, we all know that the issue has not been highlighted by the BBC for that reason - it is there to serve one purpose and that is to give the impresion that the Scottish Givernment are not doing anything to help this industry.
That Gray is now the second nonentity within a week to plead for a debate on independence seems to run at odds with Labour's oft repeated claim that such a debate is a distraction. Also, of the two [Murphy and Gray] which one is Labour's preference? - there's another interesting wee question that won't get asked.
Interesting poll numbers with Labour neck and neck with the Lib Dems on 23%.
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#323. I think you're right on both counts and I think you begin to see it in the dead tree coverage already as certain newspapers are beginning to rethink whether they REALLY want such a substantial portion of Scotland hating them. They even want a chance to continue doing business there.
You are beginning to see a trickle of non-hysterical stories about the SNP. It's not yet a preponderance but even a few is a major turn-around to admit that the SNP may not be Satan for some of these venues. I would expect to see the trend continue and grow. It isn't certain that Scots will vote for independence but it now looks like a real possibility. That there will be more powers for the Scottish government looks like a certainty. It is not going away and neither are the SNP.
The news media has to begin to deal with this. They have been slow on the up-take (as we say over here) but they look to be finally beginning to catch on.
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#303 oldnat ... i guess i was correct in my Derek = Giggle. Can we have just Derek back though as he was making some good posts and a bit of a fight since there are no opposition posting anymore ... northhighlander ?
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321. Donald_McNairn
""The negotiations for Copenhagen are finely balanced and Scotland's excellent Climate Change Act could make a difference, but only if people actually get to hear about it."
Don't it make you brits proud to be british?"
Yes, I saw him on the Politics Show - Scotland, during the Jim Murphy bit. Murphy then basically ignored it and went on to say how the SNP were just getting the same treatment as Jack McConnell administration got. Well that's ok then, eh?!
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324. U14094468
"Having had a read through the papers and the comments here, one thing is clear - Labour are being savaged by the media in England.
Scotland however continues to see the usual limp rubbish being headlined."
What's beginning to worry me is that Labour know they are finished in England, and are remembering how Scotland was their place to regroup during the Thatcher years, sitting on safe Scottish seats. Wouldn't the right strategy for them be to go through the motions they need to down south and take their lumps at the polls, while up here everything is being set up to polarise the electorate up here by dusting off their visceral - 'vote for us to fight the tories' - pitch, hoping to once again rebuild up here during the upcoming wildetrness years so that they can abandon us again when they next figure out what England wants to hear.
They claim the SNP are a sideshow, but all they want is a safehouse.
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From the Herald,
Mr Bain will say: “Last week, the SNP scrapped the Glasgow Airport trains. A thousand jobs gone - but my opponent hasn’t said a word.
“As the SNP rips off Glasgow, their politicians just turn their back on our city.
“If the SNP axe more of Glasgow’s services, I won’t stand silent.
“And when the Nats cut housing and regeneration money, I’ll never give up fighting for my city.”
I always find it interesting that a newspaper can give us "so and so will say..."
This so and so , whoever he is , seems to suggest that Glasgow has not been under LABOUR control since Moses was a baby.
I look forward to nice pics in the newspaper of the Sec of State for Scotland and Iain Gray giving their spiels to an echoing , tumbleweeded conference.
If Brown can't fill the place can you imagine Messrs Murphy and Gray succeeding?
Or this chap Bain?
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#319 Gedguy2 - the reason GMS ran the builders story became apparent at a later stage in the show, when the gray man started his free run labour party rant with the story you were running earlier in the show with the regard to all the building workers that have lost their jobs and it is all those useless Nat's fault.
and then we had Morning extra with another scare story about friends looking after each others kids and how they would need to be registered and how 2 friends fell fowl of the law and they were both policewomen.
OH but a slight technicality it happened in England and it is dealt with differently in Scotland but hey it MIGHT happen here! Bog standard radio Scotland scare story
Another pathetic morning!
Sid
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Jim Murphy. How can I say this so as to avoid getting it pulled?
Jim Murphy is worse than pathetic. I want him out of parliament, I want Labour out of Scotland. I reaaaaaalllllly want Labour out of my country.
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The entire unionist agenda hangs in the balance as Iain Gray challenges Alex Salmond to a live debate, I guess Iain Gray has been playing the underdog during First Minister's Question Time since becoming the Scottish Labour leader? Perhaps a unionist can express how they feel about Iain Gray becoming the face of unionism against Alex Salmond?
Although I am suprised that Iain Gray can hold an honest debate but I expect it to be full of fear, misleading information and assumptions. There are many peices of the puzzle missing as much of the financial information is not shown publically (for Scotland) and much would have to be negociated because I do not believe Scotland will own 10 percent of trident, realistically Scotland would be offered money as compensation for the nuclear weapons. That's the type of dealing we shall see while we split assets between Scotland and the remaining members of the United Kingdom.
I am also suprised that Iain Gray can hold his head up high and say to the people of Scotland, "I am on your side." despite also mentioning that he shall wait till the day that the white paper might be available to hold the debate.
If Iain Gray was honestly looking after the interests of the Scottish people, surely Iain Gray must remain open minded to what the supporters of independence have to say before becoming critical? Perhaps the idea proposed is good, or are we becoming hardline when it comes to the union-independence debate?
Then what's the point? If your talking to someone who is already decided despite the many good points you may have to contribute to the discussion then I believe it's a waste of time altogether. Before you enter a debate you must be open to the idea that you are wrong and may be proved wrong.
Alex Salmond would have been preparing for this moment for years. It's easy for unionists to forget the good points of remaining in this union, who could guess that the nationalists would ever have this opportunity? However to support independence you must be willing to research and provide evidenece and to make your case, so I feel that Iain Gray will walk into this blind folded and be quickly reduced to resorting to the too poor, too stupid nonesense that Scotland has faced for years.
Iain Gray will not exactly claim Scotland is too poor, but I am confident Gray will use the RBS and HBOS as examples. Iain Gray: "Scotland could not afford to bail out these giants..." Alex Salmond: "They only became Scottish once they collapsed, but the British Government was happy to tax their profits before the crunch came..."
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Online Ed here
Jim Murphy:
"In Scotland, the Tories are hated by many because because of their past and distrusted by most because of their present. The Conservative Party still doesn't get Scotland - but Scotland gets them."
Yes Jim, Scotland will get them whether we want them or not - independence will solve that particular constitutional anomally.
Will Brian offer up his own unique brand of 'analysys' shortly, especially Labour's new tactic of name calling in order to deal with the SNP?
They have been described as a 'sideshow' and 'not a government but a campaign', pretty offensive remarks masking a vaccuity in Labour's vision for Scotland.
The 'not just now' pitifull answer to the clear support for the independence referendum outlined for 2010 belies Labour's terror over the prospect of a yes vote.
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#329Diabloandco- mmm are they still looking for the silent majority??
cos they sure haven't turned up in Blackpool, just like they didn't turn up in Dundee either! At least shereen shouldn't feel so bad now!
look forward to the camera angles and the spin for the next week and the silence about it from the journalists.
Sid
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DeanTheTory:
#331.
I am sure you are more than capable of expressing yourself in a far more intellectual manner.
Besides democracy can only work when many political backgrounds are represented, so love them or hate them, Labour as well as the other political group each provide a voice for people.
Although there has not been an election for sometime now, I expect that Labour still have a place in our country.
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# 328 mrbfaethedee
Excellent point.
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The press in the UK and the press in Scotland with some exceptions (P&J, Courier Group, Johnston Press) are in the same ownership and the same sort of description could be offered of the BBC and ITV.
It is interesting to note that these organisations are savaging Brown relentlessly in England but, in an effort to defend the Union, are trying to salvage the Labour wreck and Brown in Scotland.
How long they can effectively maintain such schizophrenic positions is the question.
In the long run they will merely stress the growing disconnect between Scottish and UK politics.
Which significant unionist figure will be first to follow Michael Fry across the floor?
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#333 U14094468
The thing that worries me about Iain Gray's 'not now' is that the referendum is not till 2010. Does this mean that, despite Global's gong for saving the world and the Baroness spoting green shoots ages ago, we are still going to be in recession in 2010? Is Gray holding back on us? We should be told!
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The half empty hall for Brown with the BBC's careful later edit to make it look full.
The constant missing of the economic fact that Scotland is worse off under Labour with a real term pocket money cut year on year.
The lack of comment on Purcell and Labour in Glasgow's handling of the Paddy's Market scam.
The attempts to dump news items that do not fit Labour's 'image'.
The constant whining attacks on Wee Eck and his pals while ignoring the elephant in the room - Unionist incompetence.
The incessant and grating Wee Eck picks fights with Westminster line.
Just makes you proud to pay £142 for the privilege........
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#55 JRMacClure
Neither do nuclear weapons which if one uses -- someone else uses back. We have nuclear winter and everyone dies.
I think the accepted term is Mutually Assured Destruction. The corresponding acronym sums it up pretty accurately...
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245. mrbfaethedee
"referred to the moderators"
Hi Moderators.
The post the above link directs to was referred for moderation over a day ago.
I have had no communication regarding its removal, and I am lead to believe that even after referral posts are only removed for breaking the house rules. Presumably then it is a straightforward matter (a doublecheck, since checking against house rules is what pre-modding is anyway, yes?) to check the post - and put it back in to the thread or remove it and tell me why it was removed. Presumably I have recourse to know who referred it? and also that you take dim view of frivolous referral.
Please reply - thanks.
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I can't help thinking that Jim Murphy is descended of the Anunnaki.
Perhaps Ian Gray is the supreimrockerfeller
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267. At 8:27pm on 27 Sep 2009, InfrequentAllele wrote
Interesting - very. Thanks tons for this.
276. At 9:20pm on 27 Sep 2009, barbarian9 wrote
Yep - I hear you mate, and agree with you 100%
For Scotland.
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