All change?
Intriguing statement from the PM on reform of the Commons and the constitution - both for what it said and what it did not say.
Gordon Brown attempted to regain the initiative - at least partly by placing Scottish devolution in the context of renewal of the UK.
His objective was plain: to depict his party as offering solutions to perceived problems by contrast with the Tories who, he implied, were solely concerned to talk up the challenge.
So, in the context of talking about future reform, he reminded MPs that the Tories had opposed Scottish self-government.
The changes to expenses rules in the Commons are, mostly, likely to be agreed across the parties - although the details may prove troublesome.
They include statutory regulation rather than self-policing.
That may or may not lessen the fury expressed by the public in the Euro elections. In the short term, probably not.
Written constitution
But it was the longer-term prospectus which intrigued me still further. Mostly, because of the substantial gaps.
Mr Brown offered yet another review of the system for electing MPs - without stating any preference other than retaining the link between elected members and individual constituencies.
Similarly, he said he was personally in favour of a written constitution. He was willing to look at the issue of the current voting age.
After protracted delay, we were promised final stage reform of the Lords. Mention was made of devolving to the citizen in England.
Sceptics and cynics listening to his statement - the majority, I suspect - noted that such issues had been aired previously, only to vanish once more.
It was hard, they argued, to avoid the conclusion that Mr Brown was keen to give the impression of taking command, of offering a grand design in troubled times.
We do not have long to wait for one element of the putative design to emerge.
More gossip
The Calman Commission will report on Monday, setting out proposals for enhanced financial powers for Holyrood allied to suggestions for strengthening the links between the Edinburgh and London Parliaments.
PS: Yet more gossip, here and at Westminster, re the by-election which will follow the resignation of the Speaker, Michael Martin.
It's said the contest might be held on July 23, alongside filling the vacancy in Norwich North.
Here at Holyrood, weary Labour figures are already reflecting on just how successful the strategy of holding a summer by-election was in Glasgow East last year.
I'm 
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Brian
Interesting the dichotomy between talk and action. As Global has said he will do nothing about the economy for three years, what do we talk about untill the Chinese get fed up lending us money to buy ID cards, saon of Trident and PFI rip offs?
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We all kniow that Gordon's 'constitutional reforms' are just a load of hogwash designed to distract peoples attention away from him and the Labour party. You can bet that nothing of his reforms will surface before the next election, which Labour know they are going to lose, which leaves us with the only conclusion that we can come to; it's hogwash! If it was Blair saying this then I might believe it, but not Gordon Brown. He is treating the electorate as if they are idiots.
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"It was hard, they argued, to avoid the conclusion that Mr Brown was keen to give the impression of taking command, of offering a grand design in troubled times.
...
Here at Holyrood, weary Labour figures are already reflecting on just how successful the strategy of holding a summer by-election was in Glasgow East last year."
Masterly understatement, Brian!
Post or reactive moderation for all except CBeebies, please!
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The late great Robin Cook tried in vain to reform the house of lords, only to be scuppered by the tory vote in parliament.
The expenses issue has forced the hand of parliament to act, many MP's who are deemed to have over spent would find it difficult to be re-elected and would most probably find themselves running against an Independent expenses candidate.
Reform within in it's self doesn't mean that we get better government in terms of better standards of living for everyone. I think we have to be honest and say what has 10 years of devolution gave to the people of Scotland?. I don't attack the situation I merely ask the real question.
The European parliament has now returned more members against it's ideas
and principle stance, many say that the modernisation of Europe is retracting and not expanding, who would have thought that groups like the BNP would now! have representation in the newest of parliaments.
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I'm bored to tears of how many times Gordon Brown has attempted to re-invent himself as a leader and a visionary.
He and Blair had a 12 year honeymoon to reform the parliamentary system - yet now he's making himself out to be a pragmatist?
He was the chancellor in favour of heavy deregulation in the banking system and when it all went pear shaped as a result of it - he has the audacity to paint himself as the economic tsar of the world who has all the solutions.
He has never had to answer a direct question on wether he explicitly supported the war in Iraq, or whether it was justified given the lies that was passed off as intelligence - yet he can sit smugly at the D-Day commemorations and spout off about the sacrifice a generation made 65 years ago!
Where's your sacrifice Gordon? You bloody hypocrite!
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DB 4
'What has 10 years of devolution gave to the people of Scotland?' With the Lib/Lab pack nothing but the SNP have given us free prescriptions, free NHS parking, renewables, almost their target 1,000 police officers, keeping hospitals open i.e. Monklands, etc,etc...........
We have a voice and a sense of getting something done. Positive arguments even with dreadful journalism/media. Holyrood is more fun with the SNP as it doesn't answer to Westminster and Gray, Scott and Goldie look utterly foolish at times!
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In case anyone feels like inducing a headache, the Electoral Reform Society has an explanation of various voting systems here.
If and when you've recovered from that feel free to cast your (single non-transferrable) vote in the poll at Brigadoon: Which voting system do you favour for elections to Westminster?
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GA No5
People will still vote for him and his stooges. There is a sheer lack of intelligence out there! He doesn't know what or who he is and lacks integrity. Labour and Tories have no policies that resonate with me and other Scots (Brits too). I feel sorry for the English people as the only other option is the LibDems who can't even live up to their name as they won't support a referendum on our independence.
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#4
What has 10 years of devolution given the Scottish people?
Not a lot till the SNP got into power then.......
Frozen council tax
Cancelled business rates on small and medium businesses
A&E departments saved from Labour closures
More policemen on the beat
Unfair bridge tolls abolished
Prescription costs cut and moving to abolition
Funding for 2000 council houses(Labour built SIX over their last four years)
Waiting times slashed particularly for cancer patients
Comtinental ferry reinstated
Campbeltown to Ballycastle ferry in the pipeline
Dualling of the A9 well advanced
Skycon development in Kintyre biggest investment in the Highlands since Invergordon (wth £9 million Scot Govt assistance)
Car parking charges abolished at all hsopital except labour's PFI one
PFI abolished.
Graduate Endowment Fee abolished
RET scheme introduced on trial basis to Western Isles ferry services
Number of government Ministries slashed to save money
Free school meals extended to 44,000 extra poor pupils
Increased funding for personal and nursing care for the elderly
Public inqiries into the Shirley McKie case and the Hepatitis C blood infection which were refused by Labour and the C Difficile outbreaks. Need I go on?
Labour in the Scottish Parliament had no agenda except to make sure that Scotland accepted all instruction on policy from London and did exactly as it was told. It now thinks its function in the Scottish Parliament is to attack the SNP on everything the SNP does, wise or not. If it does otherwise it fears Scotland will drift towards independence.
Can I point it out to them that Scotland is drifting inexorably to independence no matter what they do because independence will be good for Scotland.
When will they waken up to the fact that they are on a lost cause?
When will we see a Real Labour Party in Scotland again?
A Real Labour Party would be in the forefront of the march to independence like the Irish Labour and Trade Union volunteers who marched into the GPO in Dublin in 1916 and like radical left wing movementa around the world have always done.
Scottish Labour is a joke by comparison.
Many of its supporters are now seeing this more clearly
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#6
No schoolties, Scotland is not Walse we don't have free prescription charges.
No smaller classrooms sizes
No end to student debt
No new brick for brick new schools
No new carbon reduction
No new jobs 20.000 less jobs
No new future trust and so on and so on!
If there is a real sense to scrutinise MSP's and politicians expenses and question their work against productive means and standards of living, then surely all MSP's and the cost to date of devolution has failed Scotland.
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Hmm, nobody likes us so lets move the goalposts! Its all self-interest for these people....
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As a new contributor to this blog, let me record my astonishment at what Peter Hain has just said in Parliament...apparently the SNP want to "dissolve this House for ever" - who'd have thought it?!
Hague on now - a class act.
CC
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The childish arguement about what the SNP have achieved vs what Labour/Libs achieved is tiresome. The reality is that the SNP have had laudible aims but are restricted by the not so minor detail of being a (very) minority administration.
The Labour/Libs on the other hand did have a comfortable majority and did actually achieve some meaningful stuff too e.g. the smoking ban and free personal care for the elderly. But...
The Labour/libs were pedestrian in their attempt simply to manage the administration but had the opportunity to do more with their majority. The SNP are equally simply managing the administration but with a style and confidence that labour couldn't do because the are beholden to forces outside scotland.
So, comes down to either voting for parties restricted by their big brothers or a party with ambition beholden only to their electorate.
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The Calman Commission will report on Monday, setting out proposals for enhanced financial powers for Holyrood allied to suggestions for strengthening the links between the Edinburgh and London Parliaments.
Ah yes, the exclusive Unionist talking shop that simply pretended that no-one in Scotland desired independence - well, it decided that only 20% did and ignored them anyway.
I know before they report that they'll offer little radical, some borrowing powers but not much else. I also know that our political pundits up here will present any findings as if they were substantial and the answer to the independence argument.
The positive and persuasive arguments for independence will be ignored. Instead we will be deluged by articles, reports and items that seek to bestow credibility into this kneejerk reaction to Labour's loss in 2007.
The Union is failing Scotland, asking Unionists to come up with proposals that won't harm the Union and having those proposals reported by a Unionist led media is not going to solve anything nor fool many of us.
PS: Yet more gossip, here and at Westminster, re the by-election which will follow the resignation of the Speaker, Michael Martin.
It's said the contest might be held on July 23, alongside filling the vacancy in Norwich North.
I wonder how the Engliah media would react if Labour unexpectedly won the Norwich by-election with a massive majority, increasing their real vote despite voting numbers falling. Oh, and the register of voters disappearing and not being reported despite requests being made to see it?
Any news on Jim Devine?
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No. 10 proves No.9!
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#10 derek
Why does Scotland want smaller classrooms than Wales? Is it something to do with the cost of heating or that Scots bairns have porridge rather than Weetabix?
Do you not think that student debt is not a good introduction to the "real" world of Global's voodoo economics?
Do you not think that the NHS in Scotland is improved since devolution? Would you have shut Monklands? Would you have forced all Scots to smoke whether they wanted to or not?
Do you not think that baiting derekbarker is way better than chasing some poor defenceless fox?
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#14 greenockboy
I wonder how the Engliah media would react if Labour unexpectedly won the Norwich by-election
God! Has the Norwich area gained independence?
(Engliah ;-)
Sounds like they've got their own national media - which is a damn sight better than us!
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One other thing to note when the 'Scottish' media start heralding the 'new relationship' that Calman proposes.
Calman and everyone else who took part in his chats have exactly the same power and authority as each and evety one of us on this forum.
No-one in Scotland has given these people a mandate to decide anything. He acts at the behest of Unionist MSP's in Holyrood and will influence them only.
The Unionists have unexpectedly turned any future referendum into a two option question:
1. Independence
2. More powers
Unionists therefore must explain clearly what these extra powers are to be. This is how the media should be framing any reporting on Calman's proposals, for without a referendfum then they cannot be implemented.
If the media simply present this (as I believe they will) as the only game in town then they will be doing a disservice to not only those Scots (36%) who desire independence but also those Scots (25%) who have yet to decide.
It's going to be a long hot summer.
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#9
"Cancelled business rates on small and medium businesses"
No need to read any further after that whopper!
Cut the bridge tolls then fail to build a new bridge! tee hee hee!
SNP and the future trust? SNP and the Backwards trust!
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#16
Yes handclapping the NHS has improved massively since 1997.
That's the whole political argument! do you want a party that does the right thing like labour or a party like the conservatives that do nothing
but cut all public services and devolved budgets.
Glad your getting back on track!
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#12 CassiusClaymore
Welcome.
Agreed Hain's performance was weak.
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I hope that vatnat has a last minute thrust to boost his colleagues performances.
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greenockboy: I hope I'm wrong but I suspect Calman will propose some additional powers...at a price. I wonder what Mandelsonian scheming there will be in the small print...
#10 derekbarker: No smaller classrooms sizes
The best idea I heard recently came from Lord Toby Jug of the Official Monster Raving Loony Party. He said he would cut class sizes by having the pupils sit closer together. Suffice to say such genius didn't go unrewarded...he comfortably beat Labour in the local elections in St Ives, Cambridgeshire. Barking Lord Derek for Glasgow North East anyone?
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2. At 3:10pm on 10 Jun 2009, gedguy2 wrote
"If it was Blair saying this then I might believe it, but not Gordon Brown"
I think you've got that a bit wrong, most of the problems facing Labour are because of Tony B Liar and his Torylite agenda. You do realise spin really meant distorting the facts with lies and half truths to suit his own purposes. Brown might waffle, prevaricate and blunder around but he's pretty much honest. He hasn't lied about anything today. he has no intention of actually doing anything either, but he never said he would. It's smoke and mirrors to detract attention from his troubles
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#25
And your point is forfar-loon!
Trolling brigadoon/ why do you want an Independent Scotland when there would be no significant change to it's peoples living standards.
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From the forfar-loon web? Hmmm! some may say it's racial?.
"Not content with seeing Scotland the victim of a bad Romanian stamp (again) I also had the near impossibility of an unpleasant conversation with a Finnish lady. "Where are you and your wife from?" she asked. "Scotland and Germany", I replied. "Ah, England and Germany", she mis-repeated. For the sake of international relations I resisted my more bloodthirsty instincts and let it slide.
One day, hopefully soon, such irritations of Scottish invisibility will be a thing of the past."
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no.21 thanks!
CC
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#14 Greenockboy
Spot on.
I wonder - if in addition to what you've written that Labour or indeed the Tories will take heed of the recommendation that a Secretary of State for Scotland should no longer exist?
Seriously, if it hadn't been for the SNP win in 2007 - would we ever have heard anything again about the office of Secretary of State? The position all but disappeared after the Lib/Lab pact that formed the first devolved government. It's amusing - if not a little pathetic that this arcane and completely irrelevant entity was revived solely to stifle a nationalist government.
Much like the new found meandering on devolved powers through Calman - it's only ever happened because of Nationalist gains and Unionist losses.
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Independent Expert Group on oil revenues for Calman is an interesting read.
A few extracts -
It is possible to construct and implement a basis for identifying accurately the Scottish share of UK oil taxation. This is to say that oil and gas taxation revenues accruing to activities within Scotlands territorial waters could be assigned if it was necessary or desirable to so do. There are several possible arrangements to achieve this of varying complexity and ease of implementation.
Devolving, rather than assigning, oil and gas taxation policies to the Scottish Parliament would add complexity as separate taxation regimes applying in Scottish and the rest of the UKs waters would produce transitional and other problems. While these would be justified for an independent Scotland the costs may be unduly high for a devolved Government situation. Only if there is a substantial difference in taxation policies between the two Governments would this be appropriate.
The assignment of a Scottish share of these revenues would have major implications for the funding of the Scottish budget. It would expose the Scottish Parliament to significant revenue variations, given the inherent volatility of oil and gas taxation revenues. Oil and gas taxation revenues from the UKCS will also diminish over time given the finite nature of the resource. Substantive borrowing and investment powers could enable these revenue variations to be mitigated. For example, investments in an oil fund above the level to maintain the nations capital stock could be made when prices where high.
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#20 derek
You think the Tories are going to get back in Scotland? You are barking!
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#25 derek
Not a Unionist admission that we'd be no worse off when independent? Shurely shome mishtake!
If we'd be no worse off, then we could get rid of all the Tory boys at Wastemaster and their duck houses and all the "representatives" of the onetime people's party and their £500,000 "oak beamed" mansions and save ourselves their cost and our aggro, as well as ID cards, son of Trident and illegal wars. Don't you think that worth it?
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#25 and #26 derekbarker: And your point is forfar-loon!
...just beyond your grasp I fear Derek.
And thanks for plugging my blog! (I do hope you'll be able to claim for the plug on expenses)
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#26 Derekbarker
Those comments are not racial in the slightest.
It's not just a baseless identity - it's a history, a geography, a subjective representation of a country embodied within you, the person that it's been mistakenly identified as.
Have you ever seen a Canadian being mistaken for an American or vice versa? An Indian for a Pakistani? An Arab for a Persian? A Kurd for a Turk?
I'd genuinely like to see you convince a Kurd and a Turk that they are one and the same without one or both of them seething with anger at you.
There is a difference between the traits of ignorance and nonchalance - and it's painfully clear which you exhibit.
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Re 9
i usually resist the bait from ultra nationalists but some of your highly inaccurate comments need corrected.
Not one single inch of the A9 has been dualled or is in the process of design to be dualled. It is an SNP aspiration. I aspire to be a millionaire, doesn't mean it will happen. In reality a new junction is currently being constructed at Bankfoot, causing lengthy delays and it is not dual carriageway. So why would any sensible government waste money on constructing a new junction that would have to be rebuilt if the road were dualled... unless of course they have in reality no intention of ever undertaking the scheme. Actions speak louder than words. More empty SNP rhetoric. As I travel this route several times a month perhaps you could tell us where the "well advanced" bits are?
Campletown to Ballycastle ferry? You joke. Could have been in operation two years ago but stopped by SNP government.
Car parking not abolished at every hospital. I regularly use one hospital in rural Scotland that has a pay and display carpark. Still have to pay. Another cheap gimmick.
In rural Scotland we are used to being ignored by the central belt, but your level of ignorance is astounding. Please at least check your facts before making ridiculous claims.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Can we at least get some balance in the debates please.
Scottish Government under SNP
Positives
Monkland stays open
Several excellent health reforms
More police (who cares if it is a 1,000 ot 100, as long as its more)
Business Rates
Council Tax Frozen
Prescription charges to 5 pounds
Negatives
Class sizes not reduced
Attempt to lease (ie sell) off forest (thankfully recinded)
Attempts to close district courts
There are other areas where I feel things sit neutral, ie both Holyrood and Westminster are at fault for one reason or another. The most significant is the Forth Bridge: Scottish Government for announcing it before funding was confirmed, and Westminster for being too stubborn.
So, positives currently outweight the negatives, therefore the current administration is doing quite well, but especially in health.
The SNP need to maintain their standards in general, with a few improvements here and there. They also need to give more coverage to other members, since much of the electorate thinks the SNP consists of Alex Salmond, Nicola Sturgeon John Swinney. Saying that, ask most people who the Labour Leader is in Scotland and they will probably answer "Gordon Brown"!
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Here is the headline the BBC in Scotland has chosen for it's Dunfermline Building Soviety story:
Mutual 'author of own misfortune'
Reading through the article and looking at the revelations at the time provide a lot more, shall we say, interesting headlines than this.
But he (Faulds)said he believed it could have survived as a separate entity. ...one here surely.
Mr Faulds said communication between Dunfermline and the Financial Services Authority (FSA) had been ineffective during efforts to save the mutual and the lender felt unable to get access to "decision makers". ...and another.
"We felt we were treated like the accused, we were denied information and we were shut out." ...yet another.
The FSA had told the Dunfermline it needed to raise another £20m in capital in order to join the government's Credit Guarantee Scheme, he said. ...here's another.
"The first time we heard the figure of £60m was on Sunday, the day after they broke us up," he said. ...yep, it's another.
"I believe that the society would still be around today if post-October things had been handled differently." ...and again.
The Scottish Government had been prepared to inject £25m and a consortium of seven building societies was ready to add up to £30m. ...yes, yet another.
The rule in journalism is usually 'Dog bites man' is not a headline, 'Man bites dog' is. This, for the uninitiated, means that the blindingly obvious is neither a story nor a headline.
The BBC in this instance have declined to use headlines that highlight the more interesting aspects of this story and instead have opted for a headline that tends to suppress them.
There's also the statements from Jim Murphy when he stated, quite falsely, that American sub prime mortgages had been acquired by the Dunfermlines and had contributed to it's woes.
'Honest' Jim was pursued with the same vigour as the other Jim - Jim Devine.
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#30 handclapping
The relatively new MP for the members of East Glasgow has voted 4 times in the house of commons, on all four occasions he voted with the tory lobby?.
Why have the tories secured more of their manifesto than the nationalist have in the SNP led government?.
Do you wrap yourself in the tartan tory blanket?.
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#35
Yes, Derek, the Self Preservationists voted to preserve themselves.
Who saw that one coming??!!!
Presumably Jim Devine took time out from assisting the Police search for his disappearing shelves to vote 'on principle' in this critical debate??
Oh, and how much is the Police investigation to 'clear his name' going to cost the taxpayer???
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#35 there is little doubt that the debate and vote in the Scottish Parliament on the new rape law is very important, but since it looks like all parties were in agreement of the law with some modification, any debate and vote was going to be academic towards getting the bill through. Therefore in this instance the presence of the First Minister would not have altered the outcome of the debate or vote. So why shouldn't the First Minister travel to Waste-minster to take part in a debate and vote to try and remove the woeful excuse for a UK Government we currently have, why didn't Gordon Brown turn up for it? Because he is a political coward is why. As for the First Minister's expense claim being footed by the taxpayer......well it's nothing compared to the bill the taxpayer will be footing for Labour's mismanagement of the fiscal economy
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Well Neil, Ms Sturgeon's number of swine-flu victims are matching those south of the boarder with a greater population?.
Ms Sturgeon has been lacking in support of the lung cancer area?.
C-Diff is still a major threat to our hospitals despite the mass cleansing programme?
Not having a go at Ms Sturgeon Neil, only pointed out the things you didn't want to mention.
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#40
Is that it! then? Is that the excuse over!
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#42 More of an explanation than an excuse Derek. but never mind what is your excuse for Labour's grand failure?
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#38 derek
You have a problem with John Mason voting for an investigation into the Iraq war? You must be a Bliar supporter, you know, torys in pink. Your Pa would be right ashamed that any son of his could be so stupid as to think this present "New Labour" party had anything to offer the working man. Glasgow East cottoned onto £500,000 of expenses for a representative of your so called people's party and voted them out. You stick with your torys, pretty in pink and see where it gets you; another day older and deeper in debt, thanks another billion Global. We'll be calling that song back from the Appalachians to sing here if we stay in this bankrupt Union for much longer.
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I note that, while derekbarker's latest slander against AS is allowed, my own comment, about a certain West Lothian Labour MP is immediately 'referred' - the first ever time I have had a comment referred.
Are the moderators not showing a Devine imbalance here? - Or is it that, while AS has no case to answer, 'Honest Jim' is the subject of a costly police investigation???
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#44 well! a pistol packing funclapping cowgirl! come off it! Brown has already committed to an Iraq enquiry.
Can I suggest you stay off the sasparilla!
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36. Neil_Small147
Thanks for a sensible comment.
Derek Barker:
You do your cause no credit. No administration will be perfect. Equally, no administration will be unremittingly awful. Have a look at Neils comment above and think about why ordinary, intelligent Scots knowing the limitations of the SNP as a minority, still vote for them.
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#45 Dougie
Ah, when the nats can't answer they refer to the old slang match contest!
Yes! the protest vote specialist.
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#19
Sorry Derek. Have you been away?
The SNP government has cancelled business rates for the majority of Scotland's businesses and slashed hugely the rates of the larger ones that don't qualify for full relief.
Perhaps you are unaware of what's going on in Scotland.
Some of you postings would suggest that.
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41. At 8:16pm on 10 Jun 2009, derekbarker wrote:
Well Neil, Ms Sturgeon's number of swine-flu victims are matching those south of the boarder with a greater population?.
Ms Sturgeon has been lacking in support of the lung cancer area?.
C-Diff is still a major threat to our hospitals despite the mass cleansing programme?
Not having a go at Ms Sturgeon Neil, only pointed out the things you didn't want to mention.
==================
Derek, a few things:
Swine flu, or any flu, is difficult to contain. If the cases really ramp up then Nicola Sturgeon needs to impement effective measures to restrict the transmission. As I noted in the previous subject, the Governments of both Holyrood and Westminster have a raft of emergency powers, but these require careful thought before implementation.
Lung cancer I cannot comment as I've not done any research, so I'll accept your comment.
C_Diff? At least she is making the effort. And yes, she will be judged on the results. But give her time please.
Back on swine flu, what I do not want to see is irresponsible reporting criticising either Holyrood or Westminister unless there is strong justification. Inflaming the current situation is very destabilising.
My comment at #36 was to try and get some balance to the comments on here. It seems that the SNP is either doing wonderfully well, and any problems are due to the evil unionists in Westminster. Or that Labous is doing wonderfully well and the evil nationalists of the SNP are failing to deliver on all counts.
Perhaps if people started being honest we might get a more reasoned debate, instead of the usual descent into punch and judy land.
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#47
Did the brains of Scotland get it right with the "arc of insolvency"
" IT'S PHENOMENAL"
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#48 LMAO oh you are a card, that reply was indeed desperate Derek. I think you need to start drinking sasparilla, purely for it's medicinal properties.
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#34
You are sadly and completely mistaken.
The Campbeltown to Ballycastle ferry was discontinued during the last Labour/Libdem Scottish Executive's term and the vessels purchased (with public assistance)were sold to another company serving the Isle of Man. To the delight of Campbeltown and Argyll as a whole this route has been revived by the SNP Government (in concert with Argyll and Bute Council) who have been in talks with the NI administration for 18 months on this (and possible triangulation on the route to Ayrshire) It has been decided to go ahead with the Kintyre to NI stage while considering the link to Ayrshire.
Believe me. I am well up on this. I have been involved in the campaign so I expect you to concede you are completely wrong. Why don't you contact the Transport Minister to check this out before you talk any more nonsense
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Newsnight.
I was in London yesterday and seen Newsnight, was the Derek Simpsom (Unite Union) interview shown in Scotland ?
Wansanshoo
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##50
Yes! Neil swine-flu or any other flu? is difficult to contain, however measure must be taken! and risk factors introduced, I'm not to sure of the vast problems in greenock area and cowal, however, it would suggest that there has been a break down on the risk factor of contamination and the distribution of proper up to date leaflets. Surely it's never a good idea to become complacent.
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#46 derek
You still believe Global, the all talk and no action man? When I see the evidence being called as to who knew what about the deodgy dossier and when and not before another Lord Hutton, then I'll believe you when you say Brown has already committed to an Iraq enquiry; otherwise the epithet from my #156 to 'Battling on' applies. I wish you a quiet night thinking on all the fine men and women, Iraqi and British, killed in your illegal war, shame on you.
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#36
SNP did not attempt to lease (or sell off) Scotland's forests. This idea was included among a number of other options on a CONSULTATION document investigating means of raising more money to expand Scotland's forests.
"Lease" anyway (ie hired out for a cash payment) does not mean "sell" in anybody's dictionary.
The proposal, which the SNP government DID NOT ACCEPT, would have left total control of the forests with the Forestry Commission anyway.
Most of the forestry suggested was in Argyll.
The "sell off" the forests distortion was invented by the LibDems and the Labour Party. It was laughed out of court in Argyll but carried prominently in our "unbiased" media.
Check the Argyll result of last Thursday to see the effect this patent untruth had on the LibDem and Labour vote in Argyll.
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#56
handclapping, GB has brought the troops home, for god sake give the man credit.
Would Blair have done the same?.
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/newsid_4670000/newsid_4679900/4679986.stm?bw=nb&mp=wm&news=1&bbcws=1
Not sure if this was shown in Scotland, anyway join the debate at 06-15 minutes and see what the man who funds New Labour thinks of their latest constitutional reform proposals.
Wansanshoo.
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#57sneckedagain
It's well documented that the SNP had aspirations to sell off a large part of Scotland's forestry.
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#48
That's just it Derek. I gave an answer that (IMHO) was a 'direct hit' against Labour's shoddy machinations, and your own half-baked attempts to excuse them.
Happier now that your slander has been removed as a breach of the rules, while mine remains 'referred'.
I guess it was just too close to the mark. Then again, why even bother attacking Labour when they have way more than enough poisonous splits and bitter in-fighting to finish themselves off?
Their self-destruct fuse is well lit, and burning nicely.
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#58 derek
Global only brought the troops home because the credit from his banker friends had run out. Credit to Sir (courtesy of GB) Fred the Shred for that. Bliar would have had to do the same. And our people are still stuck in Afganistan without proper equipment because the RAF are still fighting the Cold War and the RN the Falklands so there is no money for the poor bloody infantry; real good Labour Government that.
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#60 derek
Paul Josef Goebbels would be proud of you son. Can you do the erasing embarasing people from pictures bit yet?
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#63
Show me a township and I'll give you Soweto! pretty yawning stuff handclapping, I guess your corridor is longer than you think!
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#55. derekbarker
Check out Aussieland were they have realised that they can't contain swine flue and testing people has become impracticable, its a virus which will mutate very readily to overcome all that we throw at it.
Swine Flu Continues its March Through Australia
Keep running like a headless chicken if you want to derek but since all nulab can come back with is SNP bad union good then you will never learn anything.
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#62handclapping
Reluctant-Expat will deal with your military reasons and knowledge later!
Afraid it's out of my depth! old chum!
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Brian,
If only you would report on our government with the eagerness and detail that you show when spreading the Labour word, then the world would be a better place.
Surely you should join the winning side, rather than using the bilge pumps to try to keep Gordons ship afloat.
Think about it.
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#67
Hello Hugh, I must say that I have to thank the SNP for helping to restore the labour party, I don't think we could have done it without the help of the SNP and their supporters. Well Done!
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Looks like the big idea from Calman is for the Scottish government to have control over around half of the income tax raised here.
Will that be enough to persuade Scots to remain in this Union?
Let's see how the media portray this, 'fiscal accountability' is to be the line they push.
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AV would have returned Labour with larger majorities in both 2001 and 2005 ... funny how Labour now favour this system for "reform", while they stare oblivion in the face!
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#65 cynicalHighlander
Would it not be majestic if Scotland could come up with the vaccine!
Again I say this is no time to be complacent! especially if this flu mutants and returns more deadly.
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#64 derek
Stoneyburn. Oh, and by the way I've been to Soweto so don't lie to me.
#66 derek
Come aff. Why not do as you normally do when you don't know and lie? Why do you think I compared you admiringly with Paul Josef? The bigger the problem the bigger the lie.
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#57
It is NOWHERE documented that the SNP had plans to sell off Scotland's forests.
It is on the other hand well documented that the SNP had included in a CONSULTATION document, among a number of other otions, the option to lease (for a substantial sum to the public purse that would have allowed considerable expansion of the forest estate) for up to 75 years some areas of Scotland's forests.
This was a consultation document. Not a policy
This particular option in it was not universally popular. The Government discarded it.
Real consultation if fact.
"Lease" (ie hire for a price) and "sell off" are certainly not the same thing.
It is indeed well documented that Labour and the LibDems and our free and fair press insisted in telling lies about this - and in Argyll, where most of the proposed leaseholds would have been.
Perhaps this is why last Thursday the LibDems limped in 10 points behind the SNP in the Argyll seat they won easily at the last Westminster election and why the Labour vote collapsed to around 10%.
You don't get away with talking arrant nonsense in Scotland's hard working and hard headed rural areas.
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#77
Stoneyburn! is that where they chip stones at the moon!
you've been to Soweto! Try and google the world Soweto?
Do you believe the ANC have made a huge difference to the townships?.
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#66 that's the funniest thing you've posted all night Derek.
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#71. derekbarker
"Would it not be majestic if Scotland could come up with the vaccine!"
Sorry but can you not understand how viruses work they mutate extremely quickly and will still be here on this planet when we have been exterminated. ie. impossible in the long term all one can do is work to reduce its widespread impact by accepting the eventual and working within those constraints. Nature will win in the long term and until one accepts that all one can do is limit the damage by using realistic measures to reduce its impact rather than attack it all guns blazing with the possible catastrophic consequences. Politicians will use it to score imaginary points to no benefit to the general public, pointless.
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#73 sneckedagain
Of course it was well documented, I wouldn't have said it if it wasn't!
Jeez! Look there's not point in being biased to the views and truth of others.
When will you realise that the EU election were nothing more than protest votes! are you telling me the the trossachs are save in the hands of the SNP? and your tory chums? remember 1979 and the follow-up that occurred in Scotland.
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Shahid Malik admits charging taxpayer for two houses
I got moderated yesterday for highlighting this sc*m by pravada as being fishy.
"It now appears that Downing Street failed to scrutinise Mr Maliks expense claims thoroughly before allowing him to hold ministerial office again."
Democracy is the right of the people of Britain not the BBC biased view of it.
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#72
Funclapping cowboy! what on earth possessed the nats to think that the whole 7 of them could force parliament to dissolve?
And why did they have that wheel barrow with them! did they have a load of the shinny stuff to collect.
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Brown said back in October 2007 that, "I'll not be calling an Election and let me explain why: I have a vision for change in Britain and I want to show people how in Government we are implementing it."
With his current calls for a reform of the Commons and the Constitution he's taken a year and eight months just to start thinking about the whole vision thing. I hope his vision can be defined, debated and presented in the year he's got left.
Normally the phrases, "dithering", "procrastinator", "indecisive" or "full of wind", would be upsetting to an individual if they were used as personal descriptions but as that requires a modicum of self-reflection and decision making on the individual's part I don't have to worry about using them in Mr. Brown's case.
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I'm probably going to upset all sides but anyway, here goes.
Re the forests. The lease was intended to be for 75 years. If a company had been awarded the lease they would have made an instant profit. The return to the Scottish economy was minimal, and as snecked pointed out would have been unpopular. The SNP DID carry out a consultation but they DID seriously consider the lease. It is to their credit that they did carry out the consultation and accepted the findings, something Labour would have probably ignored. I got my facts from sources outwith the press or political parties.
Swine flu - Derek, try researching viruses. Viruses mutate and eventually weaken. Sturgeon could start closing schools and public places, but she will be receiving professional advice based on numerous viral outbreaks around the world. Africa has a lot of experience with Ebola and others, and the professionals know a lot more than we ever will. She makes the final decision, but one based on the best solution, not the popular one. If she ever started her policies on what appeared popular rather than practical, then people would be justified in criticising her.
Re the military. The additional costs of keeping the military in the field in primarily down to supply. The pay does not significantly change. The RAF is NOT fighting the cold war, but they do keep air defence a strong priority, something the SNP will have to consider if Scotland goes independent. Oil facilities must be defended. Russia is pushing towards Artic resources, in case no one noticed. As for the Falklands, I would suggest all those who think the UK should abandon the islands visit the islands and ask the islanders for their opinion. And anyway, the primary defence in the Falklands is aircraft. The Navy has been cut to the bare bones anyway.
And Europe is not much better. Look at the issues with Spain now claiming ALL territorial waters around Gibraltar. I'm not entirely sure on the reasons, but it is down to some stupid, ill-thought EU directive.
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#74 derek
I would have cryed Pumpherston as more your territory but if you shyed stones at the moon you're not much wiser now! Getting their independence and democracy has done wonders; life may be not much easier but now they believe that they can. I'd look for the same transforming of outlook when Scots get Independence.
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Why do you respond to this man?
He is all over the place and your responses feed him and make him feel importanr.
He states thing as truths which are only truths in his own little mind, yet normally sane and sensible folk respond to every one.
People have given up on NRs blog but here you still feed the puerile and inane.
Desist!
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# 83 Diabloandco
Hear hear! You're spot on. Reluctant Derek has one vote, possibly in Scotland, possibly not. Spending time and energy arguing with his deluded ramblings is not going to bring Independence any closer. Get out and work the streets, people. No-one here is going to change their views whatever anyone else comes out with. On the doorsteps, they will.
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Re 34
A proposal was put to the new SNP government that would have reinstated the route almost immediately. they would not discuss the issue. I know that to be true. Believe me I would like to see the route reinstated.
I assume you accept that you are completely wrong about the A9?
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#85 northhighlander
I don't know anything about the ferry, so I won't comment on it. But you must surely recognise that the funds which would have been used for the dualling of the A9 have been diverted to the Edinburgh tram scheme? A scheme foisted upon us by the grand unionist alliance of the Tories, Labour and the Lib Dems. Incidentally a scheme which does not command approval from the citizens of Edinburgh now, nor did it even before the cost overruns and delays became apparent.
It is foolish to attempt to blame a minority government for not fulfilling its manifesto when the policy in question has not passed parliament.
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#83 Diabloandco, #84 mmarsattacks
I disagree. He needs to be chased from time to time for the lies and distortions he puts on this blog just so that he knows he's not appreciated and I felt the need to do so last night.
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#9 sneckedagain
Good post; perhaps we should encourage the Labour MPs to view themselves in a more Scottish light and to make a more positive contribution to Scotland's life and society. Why don't you email your last paragraph to all Labour MPs or post it on their blogs. I'm prepared to be an optimist on this subject; they might just be open to persuasion.
Northhighlander and the A9;
I know what you mean about the A9; the A96 is the same, but the lack of dueling and upgrading is more a reflection on the general lack of funding available to the Scottish Government. It wouldn't matter what party was in power, as long as there is a measure of control from Westminster on funding available for Scotland, we are always going to struggle with spending. The answer is simple; give Scotland full control. Cut us loose from excessive UK requirements; e.g. Trident, needless wars, excessive borrowing, mismanaged Olympic Games projects etc.
We could probably have a triple lane A9 as well as a fast rail link running alongside it!
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Brian
It was hard, they argued, to avoid the conclusion that Mr Brown was keen to give the impression of taking command, of offering a grand design in troubled times.
His financial grand design = borrow more and spend. But, wait, what's this "Surge in US bond yields sparks concern." headline in the FT? If the Yanks are having trouble borrowing, what's Global's plan B? Of course it doesn't really matter as long as he's giving the impression of taking command and the spending taps keep gushing into the duck houses of the faithful; who cares about the clouds of debt rolling up on the horizon to overwhelm our children. Your pension depends on them, what if they say "No you spent it all when you were young and we have nothing now. We're not paying."?
How about a piece on how the Scottish polity will react to cuts in the NHS and/or 10% increases in the rates, or are now reacting to the possibility of the same?
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Derek Barker posted 13 posts on this Blog (not to mention quite a few on other threads during this same period) from 3:20pm till 11:54pm yesterday...
...surely, as a duty of care for DB's own health and sanity, the BBC should ban him from spamming for a while?
*;o)
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#87HANDCLAPPING
Who are you calling a liar! button head! hey! kid! did you need all your tory friends to back you up, hee hee hee
look ya roaster! you couldn't make a case out of cardboaed.
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#90
Dr Bongo and the nationalists care centre! hee hee hee
Salmond on a plate!
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#87 handclapping
Of course you must do as you see fit. I do not like to see lies and distortions unchallenged either. But perhaps you could refute his nonsense without directly responding to him? Just a thought.
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#93sattacks
Do you think Mr Salmond should have been at the Scottish parliament yesterday, debating and voting on the rape issue, rather than running up expenses on a pointless excursion to Westminster?.
Don't runaway from the question! try and answer it!
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No nationalists mentioning the latest TNS poll (the one the SNP favours) showing support for independence is DOWN 2% since February, continuing a steady decline started in 2007?
Ah, it was probably rigged by some ongoing unionist conspiracy, presumably the same one which coerced that convict to abscond from prison recently and has been silencing critics on forums and blogs.
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#87 handclapping
"He needs to be chased from time to time for the lies and distortions he puts on this blog just so that he knows he's not appreciated and I felt the need to do so last night."
I agree, which is why I responded to him on the previous thread. OTOH, posts like his #91 and #92 speak volumes for themselves and are best left alone.
#90 BoNG0_1
A good point, well made.
Post or reactive moderation for all except CBeebies, please!
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His objective was plain: to depict his party as offering solutions to perceived problems -
No - he just mumbled a few ifs and maybes about proposed changes which have been doing the rounds for a long time -nothing radical at all.
#93 Given the increasing levels of hysteria in DB's posts perhaps he should be left unchallenged for a while for his own good?
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I can't help but think that Labour have merely collected up a balloon that they found tumbling in the wind, drawn a happy face on the front of it, and called it 'Unity'. If one looks just closely enough, this grotesque smiley face hovers just over the shoulder of Labour rosettes as they go about they day to day business, whatever that amounts to these days.
It's simply a criticism of partisanship, which may well be a bit rich coming from me considering, but it's something about these Labour rosettes that has persisted for as long as I can remember, and that is party before everything, as if Labour is some immutable messianic force that cannot be questioned. And why is this particularly prevalent in Scotland? I can only point toward incidences of the merging of party and civic structures that occurs when one-party, for so long, dominates a country, just as Labour once dominated Scotland under a glowering principle of distant paternalism. So, what is good for Scotland, is good for Labour becomes, eventually, what is good for Labour is good for Scotland, before such ideas finally transform into a configuration closer to a single question asked by the rosettes, what is good for Labour?
Paternalism is a very unhealthy state for any country to be in and it's a real shame that we in Scotland allowed Labour and the Conservatives, the great ol' pals of Westminster, to transmit their constructed dichotomy of Westminster politicking into Scotland, in the somehow pretence that the very best Scotland could ever hope for was either, or. This is why a vote for Labour can now best be perceived as a wasted vote, not necessarily because Labour are an irrelevance in Scotland, but because Scotland has moved on from the Labour - Tory pretence of the myth of union, and unity. And we'll see this as Labour look down the long tunnel toward May, finding no cold comfort in the long winter nights to come between then and now. May will be here before they know it, and they'll find the politics they once used to hold with such contempt has changed, it has grown up, it has moved on.
So, Labour can either be beaten by their own myth of union, and like their pretence of unity hope the sharp edges of political reality doesn't slowly puncture the one thing that has meaning for them. Or, they can forget about their redundant and silly ideas and address Scottish politics with something a bit better than anachronism and nonsense, but I doubt it, the current crop of rosettes sold ideals for cushy seats, and a clinging paternalism over Scotland suited their personal interests quite fine, quite fine indeed.
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Derek/RE i think i have you sussed .... you have a screw loose and perhaps are suffering from split personality syndrome. Ie "Who are you calling a liar! button head! hey! kid! did you need all your tory friends to back you up, hee hee hee" and "Dr Bongo and the nationalists care centre! hee hee hee" whats with all the "hee hee hee" it sounds like you are locked in your room and the kind nurse hasnt gave you your meds yet.
#94 Alex Salmond answered that question on FM Questions the other week so i dont know why your asking somebody from on here.
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Derek beside why keep going on about AS and his expenses when Jim Devine has all but been forgotten about.. I certainly dont see any newspapers following up the story.Sort your own house out mate.
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94. Come on Derek, an anti-UK publicity stunt, that was always doomed to fail, is far more important to The Great One than such non-issues.
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RE95
The latest poll I saw was last Thurs can't say I've seen this one.
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#91 derekbarker
"Who are you calling a liar! button head! hey! kid! did you need all your tory friends to back you up, hee hee hee
look ya roaster! you couldn't make a case out of cardboaed."
The above representative extract from anglo-unionist political discourse cannot but lead one to wonder whether the spasm of fever that you chaps have been experiencing lately is showing any signs of passing. Still hot and bothered, or are you merely limbering up for the coming summer by-election in Glasgow that BT alludes to?
One perceives that the hated one has survived to fight another day despite the descent of England into deeper and wider euroscepticism and worse at the recent Euro-elections, as Scotland declines to support the anti-EU UK Irrelevance Party and the far-right BNP yet again to plough its own furrow by endorsing its pro-EU governing party, the Scottish National Party, which has hitched its wagon to the enlightened and electorally successful Green/EFA Euro-parliamentary grouping of environmentalists and autonomists, whose phenomenal results in the Euro-elections in several EU states, especially France, are even now transforming the political agenda of Europe.
Since Sunday, when it became known that over 16 per cent of the French popular vote had gone to Europe Ecologie, compared to 16.8 per cent for the Parti socialiste (and compared to 15 per cent of the UK vote for Labour), with as much as 20.1 per cent of the popular vote in Paris, both the governing centre-right UMP and the defeated PS (not to mention the utterly squashed and humiliated centrist MoDem) have been endeavouring to represent and begin to redesign themselves as vehicles for the coming ecological revolution, which is being conceived of as an indispensable element in the forthcoming transformation of the capitalist system in response to both the recession (which is not ending for you, my dears) and climate change, awareness of which on the European mainland has grown to such an extent that Europe Ecologie is busy expanding its staff and candidate lists in Belgium following its successes in the regional polls which took place there at the same time as the Euro-elections, just as it is doing in France in preparation for the forthcoming regional elections there.
Meanwhile in Middle England, instead of looking forward, electors are, as was to be expected, apparently looking inward and backward yet again, with about 60 per cent having voted in the Euro-elections for eurosceptic parties, the Tory Party being considered on the mainland to be well and truly in that camp. When the Tories take over the government of the UK next year and you have had your promised referendum on the Lisbon Treaty, the UK will be heading for the exit, presumably. What about Scotland, though, which will not wish to leave the EU? If Middle England really wants to be rid of Scotland, here is its opportunity, presented on a platter. Vote for UKIP and let the Scots go free. Much of Europe will be relieved to see the back of all those BNP and UKIP MEPs as it welcomes the Scots.
As a newly elected Corsican autonomist Green/EFA MEP, Mr Francois Alfonsi, stated recently, ""The SNP has two MEPs in the Euro-group to which I belong. It is in government in Scotland on a minority basis. No doubt its progress will not stop there. At the next elections for the Scottish Parliament it will return to office in force, with a proper majority, to accomplish its historic task of securing the full and complete recognition of the historic rights of the people of Scotland in Europe."
So carry on with the tragi-comic soap-opera that politics has become in Blighty, to the amusement and mystification of mainland Europe, which, while you get on with that, is busy constructing the future.
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#96
Brownedov, that's very diplomatic of you, care to exchange some words over the nationalists failure to increase their poll ratings for Independence.
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#101 Reluctant- Expat
LoL the little general and his 6 man army! hee hee hee
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erm there are parts albeit small stretches of the A9 that are dual carriage way, the section of road from Tomatin to Inverness, there is a section before the Carrbridge turnoff, theres a section after Aviemore, theres a section at Dalwhinnie, theres a section before you get yo Balinluig and the section as you get into Perth, still not great as many a journey stuck behind caravans or supermarket lorries, but dual carriageway none the less. I agree though the A96 is a nightmare, tractors in the summer, lorries all year round on some occasions it takes me 2 1/4 hours or so to get to Keith from Inverness
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#100 ubeenkneedeepinyoursheep!
After yesterdays failed attempt to dissolve parliament! can the nationalist answer the question? do the nationalist want a tory government.
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#101 #105 Talking to yourself is ok but when you start replying ...well.
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Just to trying to tie the blog theme - reform - with the discussion(?) re benefits of independence - eg why no mention by El Gordo of reform of defence procurement
Another blogger recently posted it would have required MOD to have seen the requirment for suitable armoured vehivcles for Afghanistan 20 years ago if they were to be ready for use at the right time!!
BBC news this morning - it has taken 6 years for the army to build a training facsimile of an Afghan village due to "logistical reasons" ie negotiations with planners and English Countryside because it's an SSI - if the Quangos had been around in 1944 Obama Beach would still be in the planning stages (subject to ecological impact on Normandy beaches)
This illustrates the consequences of decisions being made further and further away from the people who are affected by them.
Independence would give us the opportunity to alter the whole structure of how decisions are made and implemented - matrons being able to run wards in the way they think proper rather than trying to reach politically motivated targets, head teachers being able to run schools so that children are educated rather than as social containment exercises.
In a smaller country it would be easier to devolve power and trust the people at the sharp end
A fairer, more flexible, more productive, more empowering and fulfilling society would be the result.
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#85
Absolute and total rubbish. How do you reinstate a route without ferries? (It takes three to four years to acquire these vessels if you are going for custom built boats and there is a scarcity of available used boats, though this may change at the moment))
The route requires the assent and cooperation of the NI administration and the SNP governement has engaged with it since it came to power and they have jointly agreed a plan to go ahead.
You are maybe getting confused by the usual LibDem behaviour who in government were party to the withdrawal of the service and the disposal of the vessels, told the folk of Kintyre that the service would not be reinstated because there was no money for it and then when they were knocked out of government (and George Lyon was knocked out in Argyll as part of that) start calling for a ferry service to be reinstated IMMEDIATELY.
Fortunately the folk of Campbeltown and Kintyre know the exact facts (as do I).
As evidenced by last Thursday's results the good folk of Argyll and Bute have noticed that the LibDems do this kind of stuff all the time (say anything franchise)and I would be willing to bet that the Tories will overtake them into second place in Argyll at the GE.
SNP's committment to the A9 is in place
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#95 Reluctant-Expat
By "the latest TNS poll", I take it you're referring to the one the Herald published on Tuesday. If so, that was mentioned a couple of threads back.
Not unalloyed joy for home rulers I agree, but the most important and statistically significant change since the February poll was the 18.79% increase in undecideds, showing that there's certainly all still to play for.
There's also the continuing situation that it's still very much the preferred option among under 45s, which I suppose is the justification of the unionist "bring it on" brigade, who recognise that the earlier it's held the greater the chance of keeping the old unitary UK together a while longer.
Post or reactive moderation for all except CBeebies, please!
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#106 The A9/A96 really need to be dualled all the way. This single carrieageway to dualcarriagway causes people to drive like lunatics as they try to pass everything in front of them regardless of the speed they are travelling at. The big problem i see is that it would cost a lot more to do the A96 than the A9 since most of the A9 is in wild unpopulated country. The A96 dualling would require 3/4 bypasses and the knocking down of quite a few peoples homes.
#107 Derek "do the nationalist want a tory government" ... mate were getting one wether we want it or not. Its not just Labours trundling along thats caused the change. Their time is up thats all, which is due to the sheep (Labour/ Tory) voters who vote for the same party regardless. The Torys being in power will only ease independence.
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frankly_francophone
Nice post.
I have come to the conclusion that derekbarker is not posting from Scotland. His completely out-of-date rants on arguments we finished with five and six years ago and an apparent ignorance of current Scottish matters suggest this strongly.
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DB107
We want whatever gives us independence. I don't see the difference between any of the Unionist parties so if it's the Tories(ENP) so be it. It does not make any difference who we Scots vote for as we get saddled with whoever England votes for. Unless of course we vote for the SNP............???????
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#101, #101
Surprisingly, even a politician of Alex's calibre - not that you BritNats have ever had one - can only be in one place at any time.
Which is in marked contrast to the ranks of faceless clones and puppets trotted out to do their duty in shoring up your lame duck government.
Still, quite a day when even a self-preservation vote requires enforcement of the Whip!
#107
Sorry, is it not a 'Tory government' we have at the moment?
Was the whole New Labour thing not something to do with ditching 'socialist principles' in order to out-Tory the Tories at their own game?
Last we heard, Gordo's greatest inspiration was none other than Maggie Thatcher.
Has she recently been supplanted in his affections by some other right-wing imperialist?
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Re derekbarker
There's lots of venom and and counter venom flying about this blog, usually involving yourself. It's all very amusing.
Here's an opportunity to get some coherent debate going.
I'm a Scot, I live in the Highlands, I've lived all my life in a political union of seperate nations that hasn't fully delivered the quality of life that I aspire to. I'm the wrong side of 40. I'm well travelled within Europe and in my experience Scotland doesn't compare well, especially with Scandanavian countries. I'm unconvinced that the Union works for me. I will listen to arguments.
Convince me, with policies from within the Unionist framework, that life will improve, services will improve, public transport will improve etc etc.
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#113sneckedagain
Your having a laugh! no one but no one believes that the nationalists have brought some new political dawn to Scotland, god man! they cant even deliver on their manifesto.
After 3years and the cost of 20,000 jobs the SNP will make a statement next week on their future trust scheme! Wow! do you accept that?.
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Another point I'd like to make regarding RE/D is that by responding directly to him, you are in fact giving him some control of the discourse and rewarding his bad behaviour. He needs to be socialised, and ignoring him when he is behaving badly will maybe have the desired effect. Conversely, if he can learn to put himself across in a mature and respectful way, reward him with attention.
If you think of him as a naughty toddler and ignore his tantrums, he'll soon settle down. He craves attention, so only give it when he is being civilised.
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#113
Derek is not from this planet.
--------------------
Someone mentioned that the TNS poll shows support for independence down. Fair enough, but support for the SNP in general is up. Maybe independence is not everyone's choice, but many people at the moment prefer the SNP as the main administration in Scotland.
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Brian's blog reflects all that is wrong with UK politics in a nut shell.
UK Politics at Westminster have become all about: style over substance, more bills (no matter how inane) is better, busy, busy, busy for no real outcome, what the people of the UK don't know won't bother them, you CAN fool all of the people all of the time, the UK taxpayer is a cash cow for what ever 'spin' looks best this week, if you lie for long enough the people of the UK will believe you, we will tell you what your needs and expectations are so stop telling us we have lost the plot.
This in turn may explain the growing popularity of an SNP Government and the growth of support for greater fiscal powers in Scotland as the SNP are doing less better and communicating the why to the people of Scotland better (i.e. they do not treat the Scottish populous like mushrooms - kept in the dark and fed manure).
Labour and the Tories have no political substance, they are indeed one and indivisible. Obama described 'Call me Dave' as a political light weight to one of his advisers which is reflected in the rise of UKIP / BNP in England and Wales. Both main parties have been caught red handed with their hands in the Taxpayer's till and still do not understand that anything less than a general election will not let this stench of fiscal misdemeanour's and veniality dissipate in the next year or two. Ask Wendy Alexander, Gordon or any of that gang whether the public have forgotten or forgiven their veniality.
Sadly, as political report after report on the BBC web site shows, the BBC in Scotland simply apes the Labour and Tory politicians, it pretends to hold to account, mouthing platitudes to Scots while broadcasting the Westminster line that the empty shell of Labour and the Tories knows best and is best for Scotland. '10,000 jobs to be lost if Faslane Naval Base closes' being one classic example; nope, the actual figure is 1,000. Anyway why was there not a similar BBC headline when Labour closed Rosyth Naval Base when there were actually 10,000 made redundant?
'Speak Nation unto Nation' - Eh Brian? Clearly not if that nation is Scotland.
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t is crystal clear that Brown is intent on hanging on for grim death. And indeed he should! It would cheat the whole country if we are not able to gub him out of office at the (much delayed and sorely needed) General Election. After all as PM he hasn't even been elected - how's that for a "renewal of democracy"?
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#114 SchoolTieColours
Scotland has had a devolved government for the last ten years?.
Are you opposed to a devolved government?.
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Comment 95 writes:
No nationalists mentioning the latest TNS poll (the one the SNP favours) showing support for independence is DOWN 2% since February, continuing a steady decline started in 2007?
I Posted this at 1:00pm on 09 Jun 2009
An interesting analysis and summary of independence polls forms an article in The Herald by Robbie Dinwoodie, a journalist who tends to be pretty balanced.
The figures are not presented all that clearly and the reader is required to make some calculations - however, the numbers appear to be as follows:
Support for independence 36%
Against independence 39%
Undecided 25%
*************************************************************
The poll shows a double digit drop in the numbers opposed to independence.
The increase in, shall we say, less than constructive and informative comments from the two Unionists is not surprising. Scotland sits on the cusp of something big and even fundamental Unionists can feel it.
Will Calman's expected proposal that Scotland keeps half of her income tax be enough to stop the steady flow of people opting for independence?
Remember people, don't respond in kind to less than civil comments, people tend to fall back on that sort of behaviour when they smell defeat.
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#106 romeblebian
"there are parts albeit small stretches of the A9 that are dual carriage way"
Granted, that is true but, with the exception of a couple of crawler lanes added in the past few years, all of those bits were already dual carriageway when I first had the 'pleasure' of driving along that route 20+ years ago.
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#115 Dougie
Well! it seems as though we have a tory government in Scotland, when the SNP government drop their own manifesto and implement the tories manifesto.
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As we see yet another Holyrood committee statement headlined by the BBC it is perhaps a good time to remind people why blogs like this are so precious.
It alows us to post informative comment and highlight stories that might otherwise never be known.
Responding directly to the likes of derekbarker may lead to a feeling of satisfaction but the blog can very easily become overwhelmed with comments that offer nothing more than low brow insult.
Here is a press release from the SNP that brings home the progress that we are making towards independence:
[i]Independence poll [i]boost for SNPHome » News » Holyrood
HolyroodIndependence
2009-06-09
The referendum on Scottish independence is "there to be won", claims SNP business convener Angus Robertson.
The SNP MP's comments follow publication of a poll by TNS-BMRB, formerly System Three.
The results show 36% of Scots in favour of independence, while 25% are undecided and only 39% - compared to 50% in August 2007 - currently opposed.
"This is a very encouraging poll, which confirms that support for independence and equality for Scotland is extremely strong," Mr Robertson said.
"The 15-point gap in the summer of 2007 is now only 3 points, with an increasing number of people positive about Scotland's potential as an independent nation.
"As this week's European elections show, voters want a strong SNP voice to speak up for Scotland and they are increasingly putting their trust in the SNP. With increased powers for the Scottish Parliament, we could do even more.
"The SNP Government will bring forward a bill for a referendum in 2010 with a full debate on Scotland's constitutional future, and challenge the London parties not to stand in the way of the peoples right to choose Scotlands future. This poll shows that support for independence is high enough and strong enough for that referendum to be won."
SNP MEP and Party President Ian Hudghton, who topped the European ballot in Scotland added;
"This poll adds to recent polling showing that when people are asked if they want Scotland to be a member of the EU in our own right as opposed to being represented by the UK government the answer is positive. Voters want Scotland to have a strong independent voice in Europe, a result emphasised with the SNPs electoral success this week."
Make your comment informative, partake knowledge to the reader, be civil, highlight bias. If someone lies about you then refer the comment, if they insult you or become abusive then refer the comment.
When disruptive posters are ignored they are starved of oxygen, they either change their approach or they disappear.
There will be many hundreds, perhaps thousands of people who read these blogs but do not comment just as there are a large number of people who read letters in newspapers. Many of these people will form part of the 25% undecided's.
When making a comment, ask yourself; If I was undecided would my comment give me reason to reconsider?
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95 Reluctant-Expat
Selective as always in your use of numbers. Those for and those against negotiating for independence were BOTH down 2% (and both fall within the polling margin of error). The don't knows, consequently were up 4%.
You had better also learn that the value of polling data is trends over time, not one-off variations - interesting though these are.
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DB 122
I'm not opposed to anything that devolves more power to it's people. If it takes 1 step at a time, then devolution it is for the time being. Stupid question anyway! Are you a democrat?
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123. Greenockboy advocating ignoring anti-nationalist posts in a "Let's bury our heads in the sand!" manner? What a surprise.
Anyway, enjoyed the nationalist spin on the stats that yet another poll showing falling support for independence somehow means that independence is still inevitable. That's YouGov, Populus, ICM and even the SNP's favourite, TNS, all showing declining support for independence.
Also, here's another response to repeated joyous nationalist declarations over the past few months that the UK economy is "bust":
http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8094729.stm
Pound hits 2009 high against euro
Sterling has reached its highest level against the euro since the start of the year after data suggested the UK recession may be over.
It is astonishing how many times the nationalists can get it wrong, yet they still believe they are always right.
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#123 greenockboy
Interesting. Do you have data from previous TNS polls? I would interpret a move from 'opposing independence' to 'don't know' as very positive. I would argue that someone in this category has an open mind and is receptive to reasoned argument.
A very positive situation indeed, as our unionist opponents seem to have lost the facility for reasoned argument.
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Anyhoo, I must bid you all goodnight (I am currently in Australia)
Remember, don't feed the trolls!
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#126 derekbarker
I think you've made your point, such as it is. No takers, though, evidently.
Change the record and lie down in a darkened room. We'll let you know when you can come out again.
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DB126
If any of the Unionist parties have a decent policy or harass the SNP to implement their manifesto plegdes then that's fine. Whatever's best for our people. The SNP are minority govt. against a Unionist alliance, I think they're doing pretty well. Give credit where it's due and not your continuing arguments/falsehoods. The independence movement has a clearer vision and are winning the fight whereas you and your like have no vision and are losing the fight. Times have moved on.
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#116 Blind-Captain
"I'm a Scot, I live in the Highlands, I've lived all my life in a political union of seperate nations that hasn't fully delivered the quality of life that I aspire to. I'm the wrong side of 40. I'm well travelled within Europe and in my experience Scotland doesn't compare well, especially with Scandanavian countries. I'm unconvinced that the Union works for me. I will listen to arguments.
Convince me, with policies from within the Unionist framework, that life will improve, services will improve, public transport will improve etc etc."
http://www.scottishlabour.org.uk/labour-achievements
Blind-Captain, of course you like most people look for progressive measures in your home area, that's the right and proper stance to take.
Now! is the time to invest and bring forward major housing and industrial commitments, what we don't need is to sit back and let the recession takes it's course and it's toll upon Scotland's people, as I have mentioned above, it's the labour party that took the initiative and went ahead with the stimulus pack and I'm sure you would agree, that was the right thing to do.
Blind- Captain you don't seem to have borders when it comes to international travel, however I do understand your position, being as far north, I think you are the kind of person that should be more active in your area and what ever you chose as your political party is fine by me.
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101. At 11:50am on 11 Jun 2009, Reluctant-Expat wrote:
94. Come on Derek, an anti-UK publicity stunt, that was always doomed to fail, is far more important to The Great One than such non-issues.
Surely the test of leadership is getting the job done by convincing others to do it. Not doing it for them or twisting arms, throwing tantrums and sulking until everyone does it just for a bit of peace and quiet. SO Salmond obviously knew he could safely delegate this task and take some time to address UK business in Westminster. Looks like leadership to me, at least we know someone is in charge somewhere in the UK
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Greenock boy, #123 & 127
I endorse your approach towards blogging unreservedly; it is how it shuld be done. I'm not making a comment on the substance, only the style. With regard to #123, the last paragraph - I always prefer the quotation, "Never argue with an idiot, they'll only drag you down to their level and beat you with experience". But that is perhaps a bit childish of me.
Would that the debate could continue in the style you have outlined, although I don't think it shall.
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120. At 1:07pm on 11 Jun 2009, slaintemha wrote:
'10,000 jobs to be lost if Faslane Naval Base closes' being one classic example; nope, the actual figure is 1,000. Anyway why was there not a similar BBC headline when Labour closed Rosyth Naval Base when there were actually 10,000 made redundant?
The base currently employs around 7,500 but with the Armaments Depot at nearby Coulport and the other ancillary outposts it will probably not be far off the mark of 10,000 when they are factored in. Some use could probably be made of the facilities but I doubt it would be even close to saving 25% of those jobs. Who knows what may happen in the future, though, it's only 3 years ago Devonport Dockyard was assured it would remain a submarine base. If Independence was declared some type of naval presence would be required, even if only for Fishery Protection
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#127 Greenock boy
When making a comment, ask yourself; If I was undecided would my comment give me reason to reconsider
On Good point - accentuate the positive
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115. Actually, Dougie-dubh, the last we heard was that someone else was a fan of Maggie Thatcher's policies: http://news.scotsman.com/politics/Alex-Salmond-Scotland-39didn39t-mind39.4411586.jp
The question is; do the nats agree with him or is Salmond out of touch with them?
This should cause another 'logic error' among the several infinitely devoted nationalists on this board!
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128. Keep spinning, oldnat. I won't mention that support for independence is falling despite years of nationalist campaigning across any and every media they can find.
I won't mention that at all.
And I certainly won't again mention the trend across all polls showing support for independence falling.
All that time and effort spent by the SNP stirring up resentment with the UK and England. All these 24/7 posts by you nationalists on here and several other sites trying to do the same.
For what?
And the unionist side hasn't even started warming up yet!
Never mind, you just get your head back in the sand as you've been told and keep on repeating the nationalist mantra: "Independence is inevitable. Independence is inevitable. Independence is inevitable. Independence is inevitable...."
You never know, just this once, it might come true if you repeat it often enough!
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#130 Expat
"Pound hits 2009 high against euro"
I always wonder about this one. While a 'strong' pound/high exchange rate is good for people going abroad on holiday, a lower/'weak' pound one helps our business compete abroad as it makes our goods (relatively) cheaper.
So, given that low exchange rates should be beneficial to UK business why is it always 'strong' pound good, 'weak' pound bad?
Is it simply that the only thing the UK exports these days is holiday makers?
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#130 Expat
"data suggested the UK recession may be over"
Your optimisim is welcome but there is a world of difference between 'may be over' and 'is over'.
Given your stubborn refusal to admit the UK was in a recession until the official ONS figures actually proved that it was, I'm a wee bit surprised that you aren't waiting for the official ONS take on the recession ending.
I hope you are right but I think I might just wait a wee bit longer before cracking open the champagne and claiming to have seen the 'green shoots of recovery' if only to avoid the risk of it turning out that those same 'green shoots' are nothing more than the effect of too much of the aforementioned bubbly stuff.
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#130
On the subject of opinion polling on Scottish independence, I refer to a previous post in another thread, in which I drew attention to the fact that the Herald was reporting that TNS-BMRB polling is producing time-series data which shows that the level of support for Scottish independence is holding firm and that it is among those previously opposed to it that there appears to be greater uncertainty now over their stance. As Chris Eynon of the polling company is reported to have said, "With a solid foundation of support and this gradual weakening of opposition and increased indecision, the potential to reinforce the case and build support for independence in Scotland is clearly apparent." I am not aware that Mr Eynon is a "nationalist" or that he considers that he is "always right".
On the subject of the present position so far as the UK recession is concerned, the fact of the matter may be stated as follows, I understand. According to the recent think-tank estimates, in the three months to the end of May the pace of economic decline slowed, with GDP falling 0.9 per cent compared with a 1.5 per cent drop in the three months to the end of April. Unfortunately, while a recession is defined by the drop in GDP over two consecutive quarters, it is harder for economists to say that a sustained recovery, and hence the end of the recession, is finally here.
"It is possible that we could see some growth in the second quarter and we may see a spell of modest growth in the second half of the year, followed by a modest contraction, but this is not the end of the recession," said Howard Archer, chief economist at IHS Global Insight in London. As far as I am aware, Mr Archer is not a "nationalist" or given to believing that he is "always right".
As for ignoring taunts by the ill-mannered, that would seem to be a civilized approach, which I do not hesitate to endorse.
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#140 RE
I recall that, as was made clear at the time, what Mr Salmond actually said was that he did not believe that people in Scotland objected to Mrs Thatcher's economic policies so much as her social ones. One would have to be simple-minded to fail to understand what that means.
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142. The UK exports over #400bn in goods and services each year and is one of the world's top five exporting nations. Per capita, we export as much as Germany and Japan.
On top of that, today we see the markets think the UK economy is faring better than the eurozone's ('Salmond's Curse' strikes again. As long as He continues to talk down the UK economy, all is well) and, in the teeth of this horrific global recession, UK manufacturing is actually growing!
Quick, cybernats! Find something for us all to be miserable about!!
143. I didn't accept something was true until it was proven? That really is a bizarre attitude to have. Maybe I should adopt the nationalist approach and believe something is true just because someone on the internet told me it was.
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#130 Reluctant-Expat
when it comes to a "Let's bury our heads in the sand!" approach, you amply demonstrate the way, although your scattering of references without dates, details and links is certainly different, if less effective.
I must confess to some surprise at your attitude over the pound, however. If today's rise in the GBP from the link you quote isn't a flash in the pan, the trend since mid-March of a rising GBP will continue and with any luck will be back to June 2008 levels around the beginning of June 2010 [see here for the annual trend]. I'm not aware of anyone in the sterling area who will think this bad - even the SNP will presumably wish to convert to EURs at a better rather than a worse rate.
However, it strikes me as unusual to say the least that you, as a self-confessed official unionist, would be entirely content at the prospect of Duff Gordon and his ersatz, NuLab unionists having this "success" to crow about just around the time of the next general election. Does your nice Mr C approve?
In any event, what relevance does the current GBP vs EUR rate have to the home rule issue?
Thanks for the link to last August's Scotsman and it's selective quoting of what Salmond actually said. The strategic removal of the words "so much" was indeed a good reminder of much that is complained of on these threads.
Post or reactive moderation for all except CBeebies, please!
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#140 BritNat
It's a matter of proven record, not only that you "don't mind" resorting selective mis-quotes and outright duplicity to advance your extremely blinkered views - your entire lost cause is wholly dependent on it.
As even you well know, Salmond was one of the few Scottish MPs who actually stood up to Thatcher, while the entire Labour contingent came to heel on command like the obedient little onionist poodles they always were.
There is plenty more in the Hootsmon article that goes patently against your silly wee argument.
You seriously think Mr Salmond "wouldn't mind" having Thatcher round to his official residence, and grovelling to her over a Devonshire tea?
Could any respectable politician ever stoop so low???
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-481993/Brown-I-want-Lady-Thatcher-portrait-hang-No-10.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/6993269.stm
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#138 spartans11
Your comment shows the effect of spin. When this first reared its ugly head Goeff Hoon was Defence Minister so its been around for a long time. It is quite possible that you can make a case for 11,000 people "employed by" Faslane, however some of them are the forces based there and who when not "employed" take their leave at home elsewhere than Scotland, some are locals who work at the base, everything from stores to catering, and if I remember right were about 950. Then there are the people employed on the Trident project outside of the base gates, that would be service and maintainance work on the missiles in the USA and on the bombs at Aldermaston etc as well as some 650 in the local shops and others.
So it would seem that the Scottish economy would "suffer" the loss of 1600 jobs for the saving of £5 billion if Trident was scrapped, though world wide there would be a loss of 11,000 jobs and a saving of £50,000,000,000. Not quite the same as "11000 jobs would go if Faslane shuts", which is designed to make you think that all Dumbarton would be wasteland if the base went
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#141 Reluctant-Expat
Happy to continue with your political education.
You refer to "spin". "Political issue definition is one of the more important processes in trying to have a democratic government. In political conflicts, issues are defined, redefined, and displaced as part of the political process. The colloquial term for this is political spin." (Crockett: Political Spin)
One method of redefining an issue is to make selective use of data. The spinner will select only those bits of information that suit his/her argument. For example when polling evidence indicates a reduction in committed support for both sides of an issue, the spinner will highlight only the drop in support for the other side not their own.
The reasoned commentator will present the whole picture and leave the voters to draw their own conclusions from it.
I leave it to others to decide which of us deserves the opprobrium reserved for the "spinner".
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#145
"CYBERNATS" outstanding Reluctant-Expat!
Hopefully they can get their time machine back into real time?.
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145. You are confusing his high-speed back-pedalling with what he actually said: "We didn't mind the economic side so much. But we didn't like the social side at all."
Pretty black and white that.
Of course, no-one could expect a nationalist to ever, ever criticise Salmond so we'll let that go there.
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The recession is over for those who can master time travel. 2018 just maybe the turning point.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/newsnight/8095520.stm
The rest of us mere mortals will stay here and pay off the debt for this squalid goverments threesome with the square mile and Canary Wharf.
Have A Nice Day !
Wansanshoo.
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147. Mmm, a unique interpretation of what I said, as usual. Anyway, how on earth do you extrapolate a trend that sees the pound only return to 1.25 Euros around June 2010 (12 months time) when it has already risen from 1.05 to 1.17 in just the last 3 months?
As for this: "Thanks for the link to last August's Scotsman and it's selective quoting of what Salmond actually said. The strategic removal of the words "so much" was indeed a good reminder of much that is complained of on these threads."
I'm reading the Scotsman article now and it quite clearly includes the words "so much".
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#154 onehunglow!
So many failures to agree here sanshoo! any credible chance you can mop up some of the cybernats less intimidating grievances.
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#135 derekbarker
Thank you for the link.
It wasn't what I was really after as it's a summary of what the Labour party did while in power at Holyrood from 1999 to 2007.
It's also a summary of Labour's contribution to consensus government at Holyrood; I would expect nothing less from an opposition party that is facing off to a minority government. Labour's contribution is accepted within consensus and understood.
What I'm looking for from you is a coherent set of policies that will convince me that the status quo, i.e. the present union within the British Isles is the best for me. Remember when answering; I'm been politically aware for at least 30 years, when referencing a policy please quote the party and the benefits for me and I would be very grateful if you could also outline for me the benefits for me contrasted with the last 35 years.
Looking forward to your reply.
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135 derek
Labour achievements???
Another classic oxymoron from Moron Central.
"Labour delivered the Scottish Parliament for the people of Scotland."
As ever with Labour, the arrogance is up-front from the outset.
"We gave you your pretendy wee parliament".
Let's just overlook the fact that Scotland had been screaming out for constitutional change for over half a century, that it was falsely promised and denied over and over by successive Westminster governments, delayed as long as physically possible, eventually conceded after Labour's drawn-out abuse of it as an election "pledge", and then only after their umpteenth defeat by the Tories and decades of tireless campaigning, including the 5-year continuous vigil at Edinburgh's Calton Hill.
"For the first eight years, we formed the government."
What? No mention of your little helpers the Lib Dems??
Or more accurately:
"For the first eight years, we successfully quashed any promise of a new political era, subdued the initially keen aspirations of the Scottish people, and ensured that Westminster's supremacy held fast at all times."
Not much there at all to answer the Captains question, is there?
Nothing to convince anyone of the supposed benefits of the union, either; just basic spin and self-agrandisement.
Just what Labour are about, really.
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sunlight centre for open politics
"Shahid Malik MP was today reported to the Parliamentary Commission for Standards."
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Further to references to the burying of heads in sand and on the subject of the present state of play in the recession, to which reference has been made in this thread, I note that the distinguished French economist, Paul Jorion, who actually forecast it, has been having something to say about the so-called 'green shoots of recovery'.
It seems that Mr Jorion, together with a great many others who are neither "nationalists" nor labouring under the misapprehension that they are omniscient, has his doubts. It seems that, so far as the global picture is concerned, there are two contradictory descriptions of it in the United States, of which we should, perhaps, be aware.
On the one hand, there is an official optimistic account, circulated by the banks, which lays stress, if I may put it that way, on the result of 'stress tests' and on the success of the banks' appeal to the market which followed it, leading to yesterday's announcement that ten of them have been authorized to repay the public funds from which they have been benefiting, indicating also, symbolically, that they no longer need public support, having secured their position for the time being. In these circumstances, the public-private partnership which seemed so important now seems less indispensable.
On the other hand are the International Monetary Fund and a large phalanx of distinguished American economists who are continuing to distance themselves from claims of signs of recovery, maintaining that there are underlying difficulties which have to be taken into account. They lay emphasis on the fact that the banks are still vulnerable, not having cleaned up their act thoroughly. In addition, there are those more lucid representatives of the world of finance who see things differently from those who subscribe to the official account.
What they consider to be the case is that it can be said of the market that credit was in a state of distress two months ago but that now it is merely in a state of stress. According to Tad Rivelle, of Metropolitan Asset Management, the economy will now decline more moderately than before, but this should not be taken to signify that the recession is coming to an end. Why does he take this view, which is so disobliging to anglo-unionist spin-merchants? Because we are still in an environment which may be described as economically harsh and unemployment is still rising.
Dominique Strauss-Kahn, the director of the IMF, supports this view, declaring on Monday in Montreal yet again that the process of cleaning up the banking sector is much too slow and that this is probably what most puts at risk any possibility of economic recovery next year. Until this process is complete, economic recovery is impossible, he insists.
Needless to say, Mr Strauss-Kahn is not a "nationalist", and I am not aware that he is under the impression that he is "always right".
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#146 Expat
"I didn't accept something was true until it was proven? That really is a bizarre attitude to have."
No argument from me there although, it was plain to see what was happening before the official stats confirmed it.
Are you still holding that position now and waiting until the ONS advises the recession is actually over or are you jumping the gun?
If it's the latter, then, when you were so patient before, surely claiming the recession is over before it is confirmed is a bizarre attitude to have?
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#157
Holy! Holy! Holy Blind- wullie and the vague portrait of the past.
you might be rocking all over the world with your status quo passport
but when your feet land on solid ground! make a judgement and try and stick to a decision?.
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160. Finally, after almost minutes of the posting of good news about possible economic recovery, from hearing about rising optimism within the international markets towards the UK economy and with rising manufacturing despite this deep global recession....finally, a nationalist posts a considerable amount of doom-laden horror to make us all miserable again.
The nationalists have found out that people will continue to lose their jobs, income and homes, everyone. We must be thankful that bad news can always be found.
Obviously, the forecasts and predictions of these commentators (who failed to predict this banking crisis and its consequences in the first place) far outweigh that, as stated, previously troubled banks are now finding the global economic situation stable enough to stand handing back billions in bail-out funding. Remember, Opinion>Actual Events.
He does seem to have misunderstood the term 'recovery', somehow thinking it was going to be instant, but we can't have everything.
Oh dear, the sun has just come out. I do hope it rains again soon as this all far too cheery.
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161. I didn't accept the UK was in recession until there were two successive quarters of negative growth....because that is the definition of recession.
Saying we are in recession when there has been only one quarter of negative growth is jumping the gun.
Y'see?
Now, I have never said the recession is over...hang on, I'll go back over all my posts....nope. Not once. I have said that the UK economy is considered in better shape than the eurozone's (and the USA's...and Japan's) by the international markets (showing yet again that Salmond has no grasp of the economy. How many times has this been shown now?) and I have said that UK manufacturing is actually increasing despite the economic downturn, but....hang on, I'll check again......nope, no I have never said the recession is over.
I see where you jumped to this particular 'wrong conclusion' but I'll let you work that out for yourself.
Anyways, this glorious day has come to an end and I am forced to retire from this board for tonight.
However, I shall return tomorrow to see if Brownedov has explained how he believes Sterling won't return to former exchange levels with the Euro (at least he's conceding it will!) for another 12 months despite the trend clearly suggesting it could do that within the next 3-6 months. Although I do suspect this is merely more of that doom-mongering that the nationalists so desperately depend on.
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#163
It is not true that the recession was not forecast. Paul Jorion, among others, forecast it in his book on the subject, Towards the Crisis of American Capitalism, written in 2004 but not published until 2007 because such 'pessimism' was considered inconvenient and indeed damaging to vested interests.
The fact that the global recession is not believed by the International Monetary Fund and other respectable authorities to be over may reasonably be taken to signify that sustained economic recovery in states, such as the UK, which have been particularly seriously affected by it, is not confidently to be expected at the present time, particularly as a major impediment to global recovery is identified as the banking sector, which is currently so weak in the UK as to continue to require to be propped up by the UK government, which is being propped up by dangerous and unprecedented levels of debt, which may be expected to lead to dangerously unhealthy levels of taxation and government spending cuts in due course, which may be expected to have a serious impact on an economy such as that of the UK due to its serious over-dependence on public spending, not least at a time of very high unemployment, a fact which is bound to have implications for Scottish Government funding at a time when Scotland will be particularly in need of government-funded economic stimulus.
As for the markets, speculation on movement of prices is not a phenomenon which will necessarily tell you very much about underlying realities. Indeed, it is the nature of the speculative element in Anglo-American casino capitalism that may be said to have caused so much damage in the first place.
There is a useful distinction to be drawn between realism and pessimism. Failure to draw that distinction is dangerous, as has been shown.
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149. At 5:11pm on 11 Jun 2009, handclapping wrote
Leave getting carried away with their own agendas to DB and RE, faces the simple facts. This is a big concern to that area and will need to be addressed if the situation arises
The Base is the largest single site employer in Scotland with an integrated workforce of 6,500 personnel - drawn from the Royal Navy, Ministry of Defence civilians, Babcock Naval Services (the MOD's industrial partner at the Base) and external contractors. A further 3,000 Scottish jobs are supported indirectly by HM Naval Base Clyde and more than £250 million is spent in Scotland on wages and contracts awarded each year, directly related to the Base.
Military personnel make up approx 1500 maximum, over half live locally with some spread across Scotland and yet others living in England. As I said earlier, some presence would be required in an independent Scotland. This would need to be decided on by a Scottish Government
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#164 Expat
Glad you cleared that up. Wouldn't want anyone accusing you of inconsistancy...
I didn't jump to any conclusions, just wanted to check you were coming from where i thought you were coming from and, as it happens, you were.
The exchange rate conundrum still baffles me though. I realise that poor exchange rates hurt the tourists but, it makes our goods cheaper and more competitive.
I don't know the UK's actual export figures but I'll accept that your £400bn is in the right ball park. I also don't have up to date figures for where our exports go but in 1999 (yes I know that's 10 years ago but that's when I last studied such things and the lecturer taking the class was none other than Prof. McRone himself) approximately 70% of the UK's exports went to the Europe and the US. Given we regularly measure the strength of Sterling against the Euro and the Dollar and given that the Eurozone and the US are our most important trading partners (assuming that is still the case) woudn't be better for the UK, the sun-seeking torists notwithstanding, if Sterling was actually weaker than it currently is in relation to those currencies?
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#155 Reluctant-Expat
I just realised from your #164 that your #155 was aimed at me. Debate is much easier if you identify the moniker as well as the number of the post to which you're responding. As you seem to delight in making your posts such depressing reading, it's only sensible to quote the name prominently to encourage the person you expect to reply to do so.
"Anyway, how on earth do you extrapolate a trend that sees the pound only return to 1.25 Euros around June 2010 (12 months time) when it has already risen from 1.05 to 1.17 in just the last 3 months?"
Did you look at the trend line over the past year in the link I gave in my #147? From April to June 2008, the EUR was trading in the 1.26 to 1.27 range, having fallen from highs around 1.48 in Q3 of 2007. Q3 of 2008 also brought enough optimism to keep the rate above 1.24, before the decline began with a vengeance in the middle of Q4. I'm not sure where you got your 1.05 "low" from. This time in March, it was 1.08 and the lowest close I can spot in the last three months was on 20 March, when it closed at 1.063981.
The year just past started on 1.26 and has finished on 1.17 with a peak of 1.29 and a trough of 1.02. As I stated previously, I hope to see a rise over the forthcoming year, but to predict it will end the year stably above the 1.27 of late spring 2008 would be bold indeed.
"I'm reading the Scotsman article now and it quite clearly includes the words "so much"."
Precisely so. As with so many such misleading articles, the key words are buried in the article but entirely missing from the headline. To say that I wouldn't mind catching swine 'flu so much as ebola does not imply my approval of catching either!
Post or reactive moderation for all except CBeebies, please!
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#166 spartans11
Those are interesting figures, though they still don't add up to Jackie Baillie's 11,000! Can you point me in the direction of your sources, as I suspect things have moved on since Hoon quoted his 950 odd in a Westminster answer in 2005.
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http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/operations-and-support/establishments/naval-bases-and-air-stations/hmnb-clyde/what-is-hmnbc/
The middle paragraph was quoted directly from their website. There is obviously a PR slant to the statement referring to jobs and contracts in Scotland. This has probably to do with the protests against Trident but equally suits the unionist line. However, I would say the figures are accurate.
The Armageddon scenario of all jobs disappearing is a typical scare tactic and even a few frigates/minesweepers and some fishery protection craft would probably cover the £250 million annual contracts and wages gap that would appear
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#170 spartans11
Thanks
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#163
"He does seem to have misunderstood the term 'recovery', somehow thinking it was going to be instant (...)"
Not so. The authoritative and balanced analysis referred to in #160 is, furthermore, not inconsistent with that of Bill Gates:
"The signs that we are pushing back up are actually quite few at this point." (Bill Gates)
Does Mr Gates seem, in your view, to have misunderstood the term 'recovery', somehow thinking it was going to be instant?
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#138, #139
Repeated without comment
Parliamentary Answer on 21 Feb 2005:
Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence if he will estimate how many (a) direct and (b) indirect civilian jobs in (i) Scotland and (ii) the rest of the UK rely upon the Trident programme. [214416]
Mr. Hoon: The number of civilian jobs which directly rely upon the Trident programme is estimated to be 936 in Scotland, with an additional 6,640 in the rest of the United Kingdom. The number of civilian jobs which indirectly rely upon the Trident programme is estimated to be 300 in Scotland and 5,700 for the rest of the UK.
Also worth noting as they set us up for a poisoned chalice......
The Trafalgar class submarines - to be transferred from Devonport - are an updated version of the earlier Swiftsure class, only one of which has not yet been decommissioned.
Taking the Swiftsures as an example, a generous estimate of the life of a nuclear sumarine before decommissioning is 30 years.
This means that the already ageing Trafalgar fleet - commisioned in 1983, 84, 85, 87, 89, 90 and 91 - will be due to be decommissioned just as the transfer to Faslane is due to be completed in 2017. We already had the Vanguard fleet and the coming Astutes.
What Scotland is getting is not jobs and new residents in any real or lasting sense. All were getting in addition is a collection of dangerous elderly hulks which will have to be decommissioned here rather than in Devonport, their current home on the south coast of England.
This is the M0Ds way of operating - not in its own backyard. Rosyth, on Scotlands east coast, has already had experience of hosting dangerously rotting nuclear submarines, too unstable to be moved.
The Clyde is not used as a submarine base as a gesture of support for the Scottish economy. It has a more reliable cloud cover than any other possible submarine base in the UK, so is strategically useful.
It would be very naive to get starry-eyed in seeing three submarines in line in some sort of a military fruit machine, without seeing that their days are already numbered.
Argyll cannot be used as a dumping ground. Its human population is an ageing one. It does not need an equally ageing population of nuclear submarines
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*81
ahh no, are you still here!
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When you lot (from both sides) going to give that dbarking and exprat a damn good virtual slap? Ther'e obviously delebirate antagonists, displaying a disgusting contempt for everything scottish and scotland itself, wouldn't surprise me if they are on some scardy cats payroll!!
(Abreveation removed!:)
Or are you waiting for me to do it?
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#175 waiting
Oh, I don't know. I actually quite enjoy some of the 'discussions' I have with Expat. If you read the latter stages of the thread "Will he do it?" (from about #170 onwards) you'll even see that we even agree on something. Hell, he even wanted to steal my idea for using the Olympic Village as an internment camp for Westminster's so-called honourable members...
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