Speaking with confidence
Just back from Norway where they have been rejoicing in their National Day and their Eurovision victory in roughly equal measure.
Filming for documentary going out at end of June. (That's plug number two.)
In the bygoing, I have of course been keeping up to date with events at the Palace of Westminster.
The Speaker, Michael Martin, is convening talks with party leaders while a motion of no confidence hangs over his somewhat bowed head.
From his performance in the chamber yesterday, when he repeatedly had to consult his clerks before ruling, it would seem that he has relatively little confidence in himself.
Self-evidently, he has not acquitted himself well over the piece.
He resisted publication of expenses details. He derided Commons critics who were honestly reflecting public opinion. He has failed to give a lead.
However, I cannot help but feel that there is misplaced sentiment behind some of the campaign to oust him.
Some MPs appear to feel that by kicking out the Speaker they solve the issue. With one bound, they shall be free.
Some are winding themselves up into one of the Commons periodic bouts of self-engendered constitutional crisis.
No, Sir Patrick Cormack, this is not like Neville Chamberlain. The issue here is snouts in the trough, not Europe on the verge.
Let us be clear.
Michael Martin was not a counter-signatory when one MP claimed for a mortgage that no longer exists.
He was not egging on those who claimed for upgrades to their country estates, complete with moat.
They did this all on their sweet lonesome - or sometimes, it would appear, in tandem with spouses or chums.
It may be, rightly, argued that the Speaker contributed, by neglect, to the pervasive culture in the Commons which has allowed such abuses to persist.
It may be, even more rightly, argued that he should have acted swiftly to persuade his Parliamentary colleagues to reform.
But think.
The Speaker is a servant of the House, not directly of the people. He is expected to represent the views of the House to external bodies, notably the Crown.
That is what the term "Speaker" means. He speaks. For the Commons.
When he spoke out against early publication of expenses details, he was arguably reflecting the majority mood of the House at the time, as later evidenced in a Commons vote against reform.
He thought he was reflecting the opinion of his fellow MPs. I believe he called it wrong.
I believe, firmly, that he should have cajoled the Commons down a different path. It would appear that he is belatedly trying to do so.
However, it is a little hypocritical of the Commons now to turn against their officer who was only, he believed, reflecting their collective will.
If he called it wrong, so did they.
I'm 
© MMIX~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~02~RS~)
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You have boobed big time Brian, Martin has gone!
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Brian,
The buck has to stop somewhere. "Mr Speaker" is where it stops and rightly so. He has shown no foresight and a complete lack of understanding of the public mood. Like so many in the commons he thinks he is immune from public scrutiny and has found out that this is not so.
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Seems according to news that he is stepping down???
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Brian
If the man who should be in touch with the views and feelings of the House isn't, isn't that, prima facie, the case for removal?
The fact that the snouts are not in touch with their constituents is another, more serious, matter. They are so far outside the ken of normal people that no-one has noticed that in the last Budget they voted themselves another £7,000 a year pay rise as their £20,000 ACA goes up in value from £33,333 to the £40,000 we would have to earn to be able to pay for our moat to be cleaned. Spaced out, man!
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Great Post Brian
How many MPs who did lodge claims - and paid back , although still trying to say they did wrong - are going to resign?
Not one, but as you state, get rid of the Speaker - everyone knows its the easy option, the fall guy mentality - and all THEIR problems will disappear!
Not a Chance! Voters know about these things, and there will be a back lash at the ballot box - Because it applies to every Political party - They are all guilty - They should hang there heads in shame!
Its hardly surprising that they did not wish to take on the "Bankers" following their disgrace greed - How come our MPs appear to be able to "Get away" with it - Why are they not being charged at this very minute by the Police for fraud? Are they above the law? Is HMRC going to be paying them a visit shortly?
Lets hope so - that way they will all be in prison and unable to stand for re-election!!
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So the speaker is going, he is doing the "honourable" thing, when will the rest of the selfish, greedy, two faced hypocrites do the same?
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Let's face it, he was always a placeman to be used and manipulated for New Labours control - he never could speak up for the House as he was never allowed to be objective enough. It is a highly responsible position and whilst the agenda of others was nothing short of overt bigotry at times, he genuinely lacked the necessary attributes to fulfill the role. He has been left completely exposed by those who put him there, with other MP's lining up to take pot-shots in trying to deflect from their own troughing. What an expensive, insular, ugly pantomime Westminster has become - completely out-of-touch and out-of-date with those they are privelaged to serve.
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There may be a certain amount of scapegoating of Martin by the heavy operators at Westminster, as Brian suggests. But I don't think the voters will be distracted too much by it. And in addition to Martin's failings as speaker, let us not forget his wife's £4000 taxi bill for shopping trips, his ludicrous first class flights between Glasgow and London which ran up air miles then used by his family for their holidays, his bill for interior decoration, etcetera. And the fact that he spent a huge amount of our money on lawyers to try and prevent us from finding out how our money was being spent (always a sign of something to hide, that is....).
The Telegraph has pretty much left the Scottish Labour back benchers alone so far. I find it awfully hard to believe that is because they are paragons of virtue to a man and woman...so it was no surprise today to read about eg the furniture we apparently paid for twice. There will be more.
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I've always considered you a Govt sympathiser Brian but you've truly misread this particular issue. Perhaps it's time you considered your own position?
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Actually, I forgot about Tam Dalyell, who claimed £18,000 for bookshelves two months before he retired. Did you hear him justifying himself on the radio at the weekend? With bools in his mooth as big as cannonballs, he said he was "perfectly relaxed about this", that he needed somewhere to "keep his copies of Hansard", and that he thought "eighteen thousand pounds on high-quality bookshelves was perfectly reasonable".
I wonder how many voters, especially Labour voters, thisnk that spending eighteen grand on "high quality bookshelves" is "perfectly reasonable". The sense of entitlement shown by this was truly shocking.
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The speaker needs to go, he's clearly not willing to show the leadership needed to fix this problem and then move onto real things.
As the head of McDonalds was saying on QT the other day, you could fix the expenses system in five minutes just by tightening the rules.
Whilst lots of the calls for any second home assistance to be banned, or to expect MPs to pay out of their own salary are clearly quite ludicrous, the rules need to be tightened and policed by somebody to ensure that all expense claims are for expenses incurred in the business of being an MP. This could be fixed in under an hour by the speaker if he wanted to.
Whilst it is great fun to rant about the fact that Alex Salmond claims his MP salary instead of his MSP one because it's bigger, despite not doing the MP job or that he ate £1000 of food over 6 visits. It's hilarious to poke fun at the Tory MP who claimed on a moat (despite the fact he's subsequently pointed out he never actually claimed on a moat and that it was a mistake by the Telegraph) which can be played in the media for months of jokes about rich Tories. Finally there's nothing more enjoyable than watching Gordon Brown stand on national television and claim to be morally offended by this system, despite knowing fine well that it existed and how it worked for the last 20 odd years.
Clearly they've all had their hands in their pockets (no doubt the SNP on here will claim all but them because they're perfect and everyone else is flawed of course!) but really, who cares. Fix it, deal with it and move on.
I don't really care about it in comparison to other, bigger, issues. MPs get a salary around 60k, if on average another 1000 of expenses that are a bit dodgy were cast then thats out of order, should be fixed, but not really the pressing issue that the media has turned it into. That BBC reporter was on 95'000 pounds, and she was on random hour on bbc news 24. Most senior civil servants probably earn similarly.
Clearly it's wrong, clearly it needs to be fixed, but it needs to be fixed fast by somebody so that we can move on and deal with things that actually affect us like the state of our economy. If this speaker isn't willing to do so, somebody else should.
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I get the feeling that the media is using "spokespersons" from the Labour Party whose general performance and demeanour is guaranteed to harm Labour further rather than help them. They appear to be picking the ever available Red Baron and seriously inarticulate tribunes of the people who look pathetic agains the smoothies chosen to represent the Tories and the LibDems on this issue.
I make no apology for contributing a piece from the stimulating " Aye We Can" blog which says it better than I can
"And regular folks dinna need a bourgeois hired lush like Baron Foulkes, or national embarrassment Jimmy Hood MP to tell them the difference between a working class hero and a waste of space".
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Bang on Brian. After the demonstrable success of scapegoating Fred Goodwin for the banking crisis, MPs are reusing the strategy for the expenses crisis, and Michael Martin is in the firing line.
I have to say that before he became speaker I found plenty of faults with his politics, but since his election he has been constrained by that position as all speakers are, and has handled the role quite effectively. He had an impossible act to follow, and was always going to be judged harshly, but he has been forced out merely as a scapegoat, and that says everything we need to know about the present House of Commons.
Personally I care less about the money - it's all piffling in the grand scheme of things - than about the quality of the people. And there is only one set of people truly responsible for that: the electorate.
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the days when mp's needed protection from the crown or anyone else are long gone brian it's we the public who need protection...from the rapacity of our elected members and as for the title right hon. I never want to hear it mentioned again in connection with the house of commons.
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I tend to agree that he did not force the MPs to claim those expenses as I am sure that he did not force himself to claim his own expenses. I was just about to write that they are all the same. That would be a discredit to those MPs who have claimed expenses fairly. The points that you put over about his failings should have been enough for him to tender his resignation (which the BBC is saying that he is going to). I hope that this is not just a resignation from being the speaker but also a resignation as an MP and I hope that the others who have been found out with their noses in the trough will do the 'honourable' thing and fall on their swords by offering their resignations as MPs. As they are, surely, unfit to weild such an honourable honour.
Is your TV programme going to be viewed in England as well? I would like to see it.
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Its an absolute disgrace that the Speaker is being forced out. MPs looking for a scapegoat - I'm actually incredibly surprised that they're getting away with this one and making it stick. This really leaves a bitter taste in the mouth.
Many MPs have disliked Michael Martin from day one and its a shame that he is being forced out like this. His supporters should be more vocal about how disgraceful this all is.
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"However, I cannot help but feel that there is misplaced sentiment behind some of the campaign to oust him."
Brian, please try to make your propaganda relevant to current events.
Even if you don't agree Martin should be "ousted" apparently he himself believes he should be!
And as for the "hypocrites" who called for him to go, it appears Martin doesn't think they are hypocrites!
How utterly, utterly embarrassing for you, but no less than we have come to expect.
The cracks are getting bigger every day and soon the whole rotten Unionist edifice will collapse.
Feel free to panic.
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I wonder what the content of the unavailable blog article "The Speaker speaks" is below, with two posts?
Perhaps it's an even more embarrasssing defence of the indefensible?
Or maybe it reports the facts: "The Speaker speaks....and says:"I'm off before they drag me out screaming and kicking."
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Are any journalists asking questions of Scottish MPs, prior to any publications of their expenses? I'm surprised that they are not offering them an opportunity to speak out before/if any damaging revelations are published.
Brian, you should be picking up the phone and talking to the MPs, particularly the Labour members. Or do we wait for the Telegraph to air it in public?
On another vein, will anyone be surprised if there are Scottish MPs abusing the system? Let's face it, the majority of them are members of Unionist parties, which begs a question; "is the matter of the Union and it's defense by Labour and Liberal Democrat MPs, simply a vehicle to allow personal gain by these individuals and a way of lining their own pockets?"
It looks that way to me.
Does anyone else have a view? Has Westminster politics descended to a level where large constitutional matters are actually being manipulated and used for vested personal gain by Scottish Unionist MPs?
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#19 Blind_Captain
"Has Westminster politics descended to a level where large constitutional matters are actually being manipulated and used for vested personal gain by Scottish Unionist MPs?"
Yes.
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#18, The blog was visible for a short time before it was pulled - it was basically a duplicate blog of this one. Presumably some gremlins in the BBC IT system.
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#21 deadgoatsociety
So, the title was changed from "The Speaker speaks" to "Speaking with confidence".
The title "Speaking with confidence" gives the "headline" impression the writer thinks Martin speaks with confidence and yet in the article itself the writer states the exact opposite view: "it would seem that he has relatively little confidence in himself."
A much less misleading title would have been: "Not speaking with confidence".
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Also meant to say if you hit the "Main" link at the top of this blog, you will be able to see the pulled blog.
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Brian... Quote: "In the bygoing, I have of course been keeping up to date with events at the Palace of Westminster."
...what is it they say? An hour's a long time in politics!
*;o)
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Jimmy Hood on Newsnight showed us all why Martin has to go. Jimmy 9 chins Hood tried to justify the Speaker by saying he is highly respected working classed adored by his constituents. Me thinks Mr Hood has been too long in his safe seat too.
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Interesting that it was STV who broke the news first. It would seem that it is still unclear as to when MR Speaker will go. I should imagine he will be trying to protect his pension first and foremost. I should think it would be better if he was to forego this and seek to enjoy his backbenchers pension instead.
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16. SCLSCL
I am sorry that you feel so bitter about how MR Speaker has been treated. What really does leave a nasty taste in the mouth is the way in which Michael Martin felt he had to challenge the Freedom of Information Act in the first place. I think rather than being seen as a scapegoat, Mr Speaker should in fact also resign his Glasgow seat. As speaker he has been unopposed at the last two general elections.
Having said that the dimwits who really believe this is a genuine working class man would always have voted for this man. As they say "You could put a dog up in Glasgow and Labour would still be elected".
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Apparently according to BBC Scotland Michael Martin's constinuency are preparing for a By-election over the summer.
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I see I'm being censored again for having the audacity to suggest that anyone who sympathises with Martin is part of the problem.
Pathetic.
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The Speaker is 'doing a Goodwin'.
He is acting as scapegoat, and making sure he escapes with his pension, if not his reputation, intact.
Let's hope enough of the public see through this and the other charades that will surely follow, and act accordingly.
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"I have of course been keeping up to date with events at the Palace of Westminster."
Brian -
Maybe your pigeon collapsed from exhaustion somewhere over Carter's Bar?
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So the Speaker resigns and all will be well in Parliament? Not very likely is it? The public have always had suspicions that Westminster was nothing more than a country club for those in the know, now the suspicions are fact and the level of fraud has been quantified. There are too many 'honorable' gentlemen and women willing to turn a blind eye to the questionable activities of their peers. Every MP in Westminster should resign their seat and allow the electorate to decide if they are worthy and honorable enough to be voted back in.
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#28 rickyross3359
"As they say "You could put a dog up in Glasgow and Labour would still be elected".
Yes, but what they always forget to mention is the dog has got two kennels and has claimed 30,000 quid on one of them for a mortgage that doesn't exist.
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Well put Brian the speaker may not be the most inspiring man in Politics but this mess was not his fault so why should he take the blame.
On another point I bet you a fiver that the finest legal brains the world in a million years could not formulate legislation that was bullet proof such that it was without loopholes that would stop a clever MP from getting us tax payers to pay for their moat cleaning. One clumsy news paper article and no MP will ever dare do so aging.
I think that once this whole mess is over we will realise what a big win it has been for freedom of information and ultimately all of us.
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I see that even BBC Scotland is repeating the "first time in 300 years that a Speaker has effectively been forced out" line.
Not surprising for an organisation that unquestioningly accepts that the UK is but England writ large.
Martin will be the first Speaker to have been forced from office in the UK Parliament. The last time that happened in Westminster was under the former English Parliament.
Time, of course, for England to get its own Parliament back again.
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Expenses revelations concerning messrs Connarty, Devine and Davidson now being offered by the Telegraph.
The most damaging aspect of all this is that while many people would not be hugely surprised if Tories were a bit liberal in their interpretation of expenses much of the trusting Labour support believed their guys were in it for politics and principles.
In their dreams.
There are stll those however who will think "Oor Michael screwed the system for every penny. Good on you, Michael. Wish it wis me."
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Brian - nice try to let Martin hide behind the normal 'wisnae me' Labour cop out; but no cigar.
Martin may not be the whole problem but his of lack willingness to act is part of the problem and reflects back to the public as, at best, him turning a blind eye to veniality. Especially as he was advised over three years ago that Commons Expenses claims were becoming a farce by an independent adviser and if it they were not rapidly changed to reflect the experience of the man in the street then it was going to implode on Parliament. Martin's response was to turn puce, summon his chief lackey, berate the independent adviser and have him booted out of the Palace of Westminster sine die.
Martin has got it badly wrong at every stage by supporting the parliamentarians with their noses in the trough with spurious legal actions at every turn to prevent taxpayers from seeing just how filthy Westminster's Augean Expenses Stables really were and, adding insult to injury, at the same taxpayers' expense. Mr 'Working Man' Speaker's annual expenses being higher than his constituents average wage does not look that smart.
It is not the veniality of many MP's that really angers me, it became monkey see, monkey do, its is the failure of the traditional big two Parties and the Speaker to bring them to heel.
Cameron is right in calling for an immediate General Election but I am not sure it will be to his political advantage.
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"Let us be clear.
Michael Martin was not a counter-signatory when one MP claimed for a mortgage that no longer exists.
He was not egging on those who claimed for upgrades to their country estates, complete with moat.
They did this all on their sweet lonesome - or sometimes, it would appear, in tandem with spouses or chums."
Yes, let's be clear indeed, Martin didn't help any of these MP's to fill in their forms nor did he need any help himself. However, one claim recently suggested collusion on the part of the department responsible for handling such claims - a department ultimately controlled by Martin.
Of course we can all applaud Brian, Glen and every other Scottish journalist who have doggedly pursued every corrupt and greedy claim by Scottish MP's - or can we?
Where was Brian, Glen et al when David Marshall was claiming over half a million pounds in expenses? A paltry claim for food by Salmond (a third of what he could have claimed) has been highlighted no fewer than four time on various BBC political programmes. Glen campbell himself subjected John Mason to questions twice on the matter on Sunday. How ironic when you consider that Mason was the victor in the by-election in Glasgow East caused by the sudden resignation of David Marshall.
We can thank the English press for having the guts to do what no Scottish journalist or newspaper would dare do (unless of course they are contriving a non existant Trump scandal - remember that?). The Scottish media are reporting these revelations only because they have no option, they are all over the English (and by extension the UK) media.
I notice that in this particular blog Brian has decided we should be presented with his opinion on the matter. Not surprisingly his opinion serves to defend Michael Martin.
David Marshall expenses, Glenrothes registry and Jim Murphy's long list of completely false and insulting claims - justifiable unanswered questions remain on all of these.
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Gordon Brown said .."no Labour MP who broke expenses rules would stand at the next election."
Empty words. Whether or not they broke the rules that they wrote is not at issue. Hasn't every MP that the Torygraph has outed so far stated that all of their claims were "within the rules" ?
Does this mean that any NuLab MP who has "paid back" any "inadvertent claims" or made any, ahem, "voluntary" payments to the Infernal Revenue in lieu of GCT will not be standing for re-election ?
Methinks not.
On the Speaker.
He was a placeman, put there as a puppet under the control of Bliar and Broon. He has had his snout in the trough as much as any of them. Has he been told that it now his final act of filial loyalty to NuLab that he steps down in the hope that the public approbrium goes with him ?
Won't wash this time, Mr Broon. The "bidding war" between Broon and CMD over whose party can root out the corruption and wash whiter than white is now embarrasing.
Noted with interest that there now seems that when Speaker Martin steps down he will also resign his seat and force a by-election. One wonders whether or not the good voters of Glasgow Springburn will rise as one and elect the NuLab candidate, who, as a matter of interest, is likely to be one Paul Martin, currently MSP for Glasgow Springburn ?
Will Paul say whether or not he will then also resign his seat in the Scottish Parliament ? Or will he, like Eck, "serve out his elected term" ?
What betting on a "celebrity" anti-sleaze candidate appearing. What betting on one T.Sheridan, once of this parish ?
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#35 mcjbrown
"I think that once this whole mess is over we will realise what a big win it has been for freedom of information and ultimately all of us."
Some of us aren't that slow.
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#40 Chiefy1724
"What betting on a "celebrity" anti-sleaze candidate appearing."
Do you use the same pigeon post as Brian Taylor? The betting closed days ago. Vote for Rantzen!
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#39 greenockboy
"unless of course they are contriving a non existant Trump scandal - remember that?)."
We don't need to remember it. They were back at it again yesterday on this very website.
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#37 "The most damaging aspect of all this is that while many people would not be hugely surprised if Tories were a bit liberal in their interpretation of expenses much of the trusting Labour support believed their guys were in it for politics and principles."
Ah, but don't you remember the old saying that as a rule the Labour guys tended to be caught up in financial scandals because they were trying to raise the needful to fund the sexual pecadilloes which got their Tory colleagues into the papers :-))
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"Lloyds Banking Group has announced it is cutting 625 jobs in the UK. Lloyds said the job losses will be evenly split between Scotland and England & Wales."
So half of the 625 jobs will be axed in Scotland and half in England and Wales.
Does anyone here see a slight problem with this "even split"?!!!
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I can't see Esther Rantzen standing for a Glasgow seat. Tommy Sheridan still has a High court thingy handing over his head.
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If a celebrity is to stand I can't see Esther going for a Scottish seat. Perhaps Elaine C Smith?
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I suppose the Telegraph will have the details of David Marshall's expenses. And Michael "Air Miles" Martin's outrageous claims are already public knowledge, although not getting enough of a mention lately. There will be more revelations regarding long-serving Scottish Labour MPs, and juicy ones at that.
Clearly Labour trolls and Labour-supporting journalists would love to try to get something to stick to the SNP, so they can promote the idea that "they are all at it" and thus try to engender voter apathy and a low turnout (which is a pretty desperate tactic for a democratic political party, don't you think?). Perhaps an SNP back bencher may yet be revealed as having claimed for somthing equivalent to eighteen thousand pounds worth of "high quality bookcases" (cheers, Tam!). However, their laughable attempts to smear Salmond may very well backfire. Do they still think the voters are idiots?
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#46 rickyross3359
What about Lynn Faulds Gub? Does that sound any better for you?
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#48 minceandmealie
"Do they still think the voters are idiots?"
No, "idiots" would be people who are still prepared to vote for this shower of crooks despite knowing what they've done!
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#11 NCA999
"Clearly they've all had their hands in their pockets (no doubt the SNP on here will claim all but them because they're perfect and everyone else is flawed of course!) but really, who cares."
I think you might find the "mugs" who've been paying for it care quite a bit!
The unionist capacity for glibly excusing this utter venality is really quite astounding.
Let's all say "who cares" and forget about it? I don't think so.
I think you'll find most sensible people are going to take it out of the backsides of Unionist MPs and quite right too.
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#42 hulla,
My traditional One ticket for the raffle for the car at the next conference if Ester shows her face north of the border. Or the fragrant Ms Lumley either.
Whether or not this will be a "high profile" by-election, this is still Glasgow Springburn that we are talking about and not the Home Counties or leafy suburbs of Madchester.
Paul Martin's on a hiding to nothing. Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. If he does and gets gubbed, he still goes back to Holyrood. If he doesn't then why doesn't he want to continue the fine record of the Martin family in representing the voters of Springburn in the Union parliament of which he and his father are such vocal supporters of.
Pointless putting up a Tory or Liberal candidate unless Bella is that keen in which case I may have a fiver on her. Could Martin Bell be tempted back into the white suit ? I may go to a tenner on him.
An SNP candidate may stand a chance especially if she IS Elaine C Smith
But realistically, my money goes on " a bonny socialist fechter for Glesca", unless he is by that time a guest of her Britannic Majesty at the big hoose. Doesn't matter whether or not he has an outstanding appearance - he is an innocent man until proven guilty and it hasn't stopped him being put on a list for the Euros....
Of course, there is always Robert Kilroy-Silk.....:)
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19 - absolutely, their income and standing is predicated on Union and attending the Commons or Lords.
This is sustained by the media controlled outwith Scotland, principally the BBC and Daily Retch.
Other factors are armed services, trade unions and and those in industry or entertainment with title aspirations. These factors are reducing in importance as union sentiment ebbs and the calibre of Labour MPs has become risable, e.g Mr Martin.
Lastly, unionist do not have young people on their side, nor the capcity sustain a union where the people of Scotland are willing to come second to the union.
TDBs
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So he's going on the 21st June..
Good news regarding a By-election but better make sure now that the ballot papers are properly secured somewhere.
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21st June can't come soon enough!!
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....and the sooner the right wing government under Gordon Brown follows the better
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For those of you who can't remember the 2005 result in Glasgow North East (Con and LD didn't stand) it was
Speaker, 53%
Scottish National Party , 18%
Socialist Labour Party , 14%
Scottish Socialist Party , 5%
Scottish Unionist Party , 4%
British National Party , 3%
Independent , 2%
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We must make sure that after Speaker Martin goes this is not over. The Speaker had to go because of his inability to comprehend the changes needed (and his trade union rep attitude), but he must not become the ceremonial sacrifice that allows the others to escape unpunished.
Basically Labour like the idea of replacing the Speaker before the General election when they have a chance of getting someone fairly favorable to themselves. Afterwards, it would have been the Tories choice ...
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http://www.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/3631363/glasgow-north-east-deserves-a-byelection.thtml
But will there be a by-election? Sure, Michael Martin will step down on 21st June, but what about Glasgow North East? I know how much Gordon Brown enjoys Glasgow by-elections - and personally, I'd love another chance for the nation's spotlight to fall in these Labour rotten boroughs.
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Where did you get the idea that Martin is or "was not the servant of the people " ? True , he is the servant of parliament but sovereignty is with the people not with parliament, both are or at least should be servants of the people. It is within the people's remit to remove both the speaker and the parliament at will. Sadly the advent of power vested in New Labour somehow became corrupted and the will of the people was relegated and disregarded.Now however there is a groundswell of anger against not only the government but against parliament itself which only a general election can rectify by removing from office those who have misused their position.Those MPs who self righteously claim to have taken only what was due, are also culpable in that they failed as representatives of the people to correct the obvious corruption in parliament , of which they were all aware. If they were afraid to stick their heads above the parapet because of party loyalty then one has to question whether their loyalties lie with their constituents or with their colleagues, and whether they are fit for office.
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http://news.stv.tv/home/97235-michael-martin-to-stand-down-from-june-21/
Seems to me judging from what Mr Martin said alone; it would appear he has no intention of standing down as an MP. Surely this cannot be correct?!
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#62 pattymkirkwood
"Michael Martin's resignation as Speaker of the House of Commons will trigger a by-election in his Glasgow seat, it has emerged."
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#62 pattymkirkwood
The strapline on BBC News is confirming that he will resign as an MP (that way he gets to trough it in the Lords), and that candidates (I presume they mean Labour) for Glasgow NE are being invited
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Speaker Martin, MP for the constituency of my birth was never liked by our Southern Neighbours hence the apparently derogatory title Gorbals Mick. So they'll be dancing in the streets at his departure. But the same Southern Neighbours don't like being 'ruled' by Scots eg Brown, Darling and before that Reid as well etc, ask any London taxi driver for cinfirmation. They will see this as the first step in moving to a Scots free government. The democratic deficit is coming back, no elected representatives in the Westminster Government. Must be a boost for independence on this side of the border but a wholly unsympathetic government to deal with on the other. Interesting times ahead. And who will win Speaker Martin's seat, traditionally rock solid Labour but the times don't seem traditonal anymore.
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I see the Scottish Tories launched their European manifesto today. Their advisers told them it was a good day to bury bad news.
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Now that Michael Martin is going to stand down as an MP I think it only fair that he should be kicked into the House of Lords for the service that he has given to the house, if you ignore the expenses bit. The way that he has been used as an escape goat for the rest of the MPs is appalling. I hope that the rest of the MPs who have been caught with their snouts in the trough will have the decency to do the same and resign. Somehow, though, I don't think that this will happen.
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The Speaker of the House of Commons has been ousted by Members of Parliament, who seek to hide their own flaws! Although I also agree that the Speaker, failed to show leadership and also took a personal stance despite being in a postion of neutrality, we can not forget about the Members of Parliament who have benefited from a corrupt system. In otherwords, "It's not over yet".
It's also ashame to see individuals on here who have positioned themselves alone and isolated. Let's take NCA999 for example. This is a time where the voters should be united in their voice, change must happen and it must happen now! Members of Parliament are not above Law they should face the courts like the rest of the country would in their position. However there is still always going to be at least one person who will snipe at another political group. SNP, SNP SNP... they done this, that and the next thing.
Just like the Speaker of the Commons, the SNP has been made to look as they were as involved as the other Members of Parliament. They have been used in an attempt to sheild other cases of abuse that should be brought out in the open.
At this moment of time I could not case less about the type of TV Angus decided to buy, but what I am concerned about is the number of laws that our MP's may have broken and we should all be working together and ensuring that each MP who made dodgey claims is brought to justice.
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Welcome to 'The Bighullabaloo Blog', everyone!
LOL!
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I wonder what they can headline
Reporting Scotland with tonight to avoid giving Martin's resignation and the subsequent by-election too much prominence. Anyone missing a ferret? Or maybe you know someone who's just eaten 42 curried eggs whilst playing the ukelele. Help them out, this is serious.
At least there's bound to be some "analysis" of how disaffected voters in Scotland wanting to protest might drift to UKIP, The BNP or The Monster Raving Loony Party. I mean it's not as if there are any other parties who could possibly benefit from disgust at Westminster.
It's like the good old days are back as a Fawlty style directive of "don't mention the SNP!" goes out.
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Good a By-Election... all we need are another 600 (or so) and we will finally have the General election that everyone is wanting. *;o)
In the words of Bendy Wendy...
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#69 I couldn't agree more Mr Thomas Porter, Quote "This is a time where the voters should be united in their voice, change must happen and it must happen now!"
Yes Thomas, It is time!
Saor Alba.
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#70 Reluctant-Cowpat
No possibility of defending the total shambles that is the Unionist agenda so straight in with the insults eh?!
I always know I've hit several nails on the head when you start attacking me.
So I am delighted to retire for the day with my job well done.
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At least when it's the "Bighullaballoo Blog" I'm talking about current events rather than political history!
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Springburn
Billions of pounds of taxpayers' money spent on wrongly paid tax credits
Where on earth do they get all this money that they can just throw it away!
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#76 cynicalHighlander
"Where on earth do they get all this money that they can just throw it away!"
Simple. Labour borrow it and we have to repay it later. It's their version of Prudence. In their hands she was abused!
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I think it is correct that he should go as this mess has been handled very badly overall. But this should just be the start, there needs to be a general election, not so that we can have a protest vote, but so that the parties can sort themselves out and we can start a fresh and we, the electorate, can set the standard of candidate that we want to represent us.
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Just been watching the BBC news channel over the last hour and they have reported from Glasgow North and the impending By-election on two occations.
On the first occation, they interviewed 3 (Labour voters their whole lives) Pensioners who all were sympathitic to the loss of the speaker.
On the second they went to a pub full of... yep you guessed it, Pensioners, who were again sympathetic.
... Sorry, but coming from Glasgow, I have to inform you that there are voters here under the age of 65!
Possibly the BBC are struggling to find anyone under the retirement age who would give the impression they desire... Hmmm???
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... just as I finished typing this, again more pensioners on the BBC feeling sorry for the speaker!
It beggers belief!
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I can't feel sorry for Martin. He was complicit in the expenses trough. I saw Foulkes and Sheridan were angry which amused me. Labour really are running scared. Typical of Labour croynism that Martin has his son representing Springburn as an MSP and will want him to be the MP.
This is only the start of the breakup of the Union. Bring it on.
Freedom
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LOL... Brian Taylor at it too on the BBC the noo...
Quoting Taylor (roughly) "It was not Michael Martin who claimed for cleaning out his moat... It was not Michael martin claiming for cleaning his swimming pool..., Michael Martin is being used as some sort of a scape goat!"
...Can someone on here please remind everyone of Speaker' Martins spurious Claims???
... Or are memories really that short!
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#58 Oldnat. Thanks for the figures and welcome back.
The General Election figures are of limited use as he is the speaker. I looked at the Holyrood 2007 figures. They show Labour 56%, the biggest Labour share in Glasgow, SNP 28%, the rest nowhere. The Springburn seat isn't the same as the Glasgow NE seat but nevertheless a very big nut to crack.
It will help the SNP if we make sure there is no Glenrothes shenanigins.
Freedom
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Martin is supposed to be an excellent constituency MP. In fact, most MPs tend to be very good at constituency level.
69. At 4:57pm on 19 May 2009, Thomas_Porter:
I think we have three levels here:
1. MPs who have either made no claims or only acceptable ones.
2. MPs who have made excessive claims, the reason for the claim being acceptable but not the value of the claim.
3. MPs who have potentially broken the law.
Those in the third level should be investigated by the police. If found guilty need to resign immediately as MPs.
The second level ones need to justify their expense levels - few will be able to.
Angus Robertson comes under the second level whether you care about it or not. You cannot ignore the fact that while his claim was relatively insignificant compared to cleaning out moats or whatever, it was still excessive.
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I 100% Agree with Brian in all that he has written.
Martin needed to go, yes, but no more than the rest of them do. He is nothing more than a fall guy, a diversion if you will, from the fact that Westmonster is rife with corrupt politico's who are desperately trying to salvage what is left of thier careers. Westmonster thinks that by offering the Speaker's scalp to the electorate, it will quell the public's fury.
They are wrong.
This furor will not die easily and when it does, it will not die quietly. The reforms that are now so important to the survival of Unionist politics must be brought in on the platform of a new parliament. Every party will need to declare and comply with complete transparency if they ever expect to win seats and better still, a new body - seperate from the Commons and Lords must exist and have the power to regulate both houses, hold them to account for thier behaviour AND have the power to punish them under the remit of criminal justice.
For too long have the leaders of this country been able to act with impunity, without the power of oversight being afforded to we the people, thier benefactors.
When this debacle ends, I hope the motto "Nemo Me Impune Lacessit" will once and for all mean what it says and does what it means.
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#86 GAberdeen
We the people have nothing to do with it. That's a quaint Scottish notion, in England Parliament is sovereign. So as I have a majority of 63 in Parliament I can do exactly what I please and, if it pleases me to offer MPs immunity from fraud prosecutions and an increase of 100% in the ACA then that is what I can do. The only fly in my English Parliamentary privilege is that I cannot bind my successors so in June 2010 I am likely to get it in the neck and have my immunity from prosecution withdrawn. The clue to this little noticed difference is the way the BBC keeps talking about the first resignation of a Speaker in over 300 years, in truth in more than the 302 years it has been a "Union" parliament. So stuff your pretendy wee Declaration of Arbroath in your pipe and smoke it.
Anybody know the Glasgow NE odds?
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Looks like Hazel Blears is next to go......
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**** ***
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Asterisks are allowed on the Football forums on the BBC 606, so Mods, why not here?
You have double standards you pile of hypocrites.
I want an answer to this or I wiull be damned if I am not going to go to the bank and cancell my TV tax direct debit tomorrom.
... If you think you can prosecute me... then I will take you to court, as this is by far not the first issue you have lied on.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3B1dRN2xvg
http://www.julyseventh.co.uk/july-7-terror-rehearsal.html
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IWANT AN ANSWER... HOW DID ANY OF THE BELOW APPLY TO POST 89?
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Well as I said in a previous post no to Esther Rantzen can see her venturing up north. Yes to Elaine C Smith, she has always expressed an interest in politics. Will the SNP hierarchy be too black affronted to approach her?
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It makes you think that if Michael Martin had to go, and it looks like Hazel Blears may be next, then it is only right that the person leading this party of 'snouts in trough' should take full responsibility for their actions and go as well. However, I don't believe that Gordon Brown has the guts to do what Michael Martin has, obviously, been forced to do.
That being the case, then David Cameron, as leader of the 'richer snouts in the trough' party should be considering tendering his resignstion also.
How can those leaders remain innocent of what has been happening under their own noses. I refuse to believe that they knew nothing of this, and, as such, have therefore allowed themselves to be implicated in this disgraceful behaviour of their MPs by staying silent.
These leaders have allowed this country (UK) to be the laughing stock of the world. They should go, and go now!
# 77 oldnat
'Labour borrow it and we have to repay it later. It's their version of Prudence. In their hands she was abused!'
Poor old Prudence.
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"However, it is a little hypocritical of the Commons now to turn against their officer who was only, he believed, reflecting their collective will." If Martin was squeaky clean I could take your point Brian, but he isn't so he deserves to go, but then again they all deserve to go.
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Michael Martin in his own words
MPs' expenses: the demise of Speaker Michael Martin
Martin needed to go he had abused his position on a number of occasions in the past as have a lot of others.
The treasury must of saved a lot of money the past 10 days or so as global and others haven't been traveling all over the World on their junkets.
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What on earth were you doing in Norway Brian? I thought the BBC were only allowed to talk about the "arc of insolvency" countries.
C'mon admit it, it's not about your devolution programme at all. Someone's spent their oil fund and you've got the ecstatic BBC Scotland scoop :O)
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87# handclapping
What on earth are you talking about?
"stuff your pretendy wee Declaration of Arbroath in your pipe and smoke it."
Did I mention something to do with the Declaration of Arbroath? I know for a fact I did not - so perhaps you've misconstrued something I wrote?
Your observation that parliament is sovereign might be factual, but it's also moot. The reforms must come regardless of who resists it.
I believe the term revolution suffices, although such a word - in the context of UK politics at least - does tend to manifest imagery of a somewhat brutal & bygone era.
It will be up to the incumbent government to decide whether they facilitate this transition - or accept responsibility for the consequences of allowing it to fester any longer.
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And the clarity of purpose becomes clear, as the labour party unites and the masses gather in the town halls, "YESTERDAY" Is gone and tomorrow belongs to the peoples party, welcome home, welcome home labour.
Much work to be done and many old roads to re-new!
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#99 GAberdeen
So sorry, an excess of hyperbole. I was just pointing out that in English=Union constitutional law Parliament is sovereign. It is only in Scots law, deriving from the Declaration of Arbroath, that the people are sovereign. The Yanks pinched our best idea for their constitution, "We, the people", which is why you get so many visiting Arbroath. Scots however only visit when drawn against the Old Firm at home and otherwise ignore it.
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#100 derekbarker
I wish you joy. I'm afraid that, when you are finally rid of all the chancers and placemen, you will only be two or three, but as Confuscius says "A journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step." Good luck.
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#102
lets open up our mines, let us exploit our wind power, let us use the natural causeways to gain power and let us bin the ideals of snobbery.
Identity is good! but cohabitation is necessary and vital to progression
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Neil_Small147:
#85.
"Angus Robertson comes under the second level whether you care about it or not. You cannot ignore the fact that while his claim was relatively insignificant compared to cleaning out moats or whatever, it was still excessive."
I could not care less for the Members of Parliament in number two of your 'chart'. These Members of Parliament have not broken the rules, and do not have to defend themselves. I do not believe in giving those a difficult time when no rule or law has technically been broken.
But, I am ashamed of those Members of Parliament who clearly created a high standard of living by use of taxpayers money, Angus included, especailly Angus because they represent the Scottish National Party.
I am not running from the matter, but I do not see why we should retreat in our political groups and hide. This entire matter is seriose, but pickong on individual parties will solve nothing. Yes, you guessed right, by picking on individuals who clearly done nothing wrong (although I do not believe they should be allowed to claim it, for example Salmond and their food claims).
There we people who have clearly cheated the system illegally, these are the people we need punished. But hey, Neil if you would prefer us to back into our corners and start attacking individuals/political parties for cheap points then so be it, but there are bigger fish to fry.
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"Nationalists poised to break Labour's grip on Glasgow North East"
http://news.scotsman.com/politics/Nationalists-poised-to--break.5282801.jp
Hootsman preparing for the worst ... bit from John Curtice in there is rather interesting though. Then again Nu SLaboor will probably try and push the thing off in to September or October in the hope that some new disaster arrives in time to save Global!
Still I am sure we can guarantee another huge "postal vote" turnout when the big day finally comes.
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/may/19/michael-martin-glasgow
Stobhill ... Primary School closures ... the more you think about it the more probable a second "political earthquake" seems, all the local factors seem to be stacked against Labour as well.
I suppose we will see all 300 odd Labour MPs in Glasgow North East in the next couple months ... or would that just make things worse for them? Maybe disguised as "ordinary people/activists"?
Interesting times.
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I wonder when the time finally and longingly comes for Brown to be forced to call a general election whether we will once again be subjected to the taunts and abuses of the Labour MPs; flinging trials and arrows in the face of the idea of a Scotland that is something other than Labour in Scotland's clientelistic self-image. Are we to be asked once more to accept as truth their fantasy figures of blackholes here, there, a Scottish basket-case, or are such predictions nothing more than subtle prodding reminders of the wonderfulness of the British state structures? Such proclamations of MacChatter, parochialism, and an inward-looking Scotland doomed to the periphery of everything except the British Labour party? I can only presume they'll go a bit gentler this time round.
The expenses scandals have shown us something more than the simple exchange of some votes for the cleaning of some moats. It has revealed the whole constructed exercise in delusion that is the House of Commons. Watch it all, as the next speaker gets dragged to the chair, although this time round perhaps with some less of the constructed smiles, nothing more than delusion. Westminster Palace is a Victorian facade masking a crumbling and neglected foundation. The Mother of Parliaments is a delusion, willed into existence. It is at best the teenager of Parliaments, once assured and outward-looking, but has found the world has changed and has refused to change with it, sitting where it had always sat, in rueful malignancy. Brown described it as a 'gentleman's club' and perhaps one could add, 'but where are the gentleman?'
This is why Labour will go a bit easier with their insults directed at Scotland. No more a basket-case because the foundations on which they once rested with some self-righteous assurance have shown to be deficient. No more accusations of parochialism because the 'gentleman's club honour' has been shown to be at best a second-rate university's debating chamber. No more conjuring of apocalyptical images of the outside world beyond Westminster control because Westminster itself is nothing more than a third-rate institution in comparison. Finally, Labour might find the real world and, just like Westminster, will find the real world no longer matches their archaic and faintly embarassing conduct.
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# 107 timepassescarmichael
I sincerely hope that you are correct that the Unionist parties will avoid putting down the Scots, but I suspect that this will not happen. In fact, I suspect that it will get worse. Remember that the Nationalist parties are a threat to the structure of the UK and they will do all in their power to stop the Scots getting independence. Not just because of the oil but, more importantly, that they firmly believe that Scotland should be a part of the UK. (I, of course, believe that it should be apart from the UK.)
To all those who read the Scottish 'toff's' papers, I wouldn't pay much attention to them. Come the by-election (which will probably not be early) the majority of labour voters will hardly be reading the 'Scotsman' or the 'Herald' but rather the 'Sun' and the 'Daily record'. Depending on the stance the latter two papers take will, probably, influence the voters far more than the broad sheets. It seems that Murdoch has already made up his mind. He is no fool and will realise that there is a shift occurring in the political voting patterns of the Scots. If he wants to continue selling his products north of the border then he has to take into account the change in Scotland's voting patterns. He will also realise that there are many Scots 'abroad' who may be looking at what is happening back home and will have to take them into account also.
I suspect that we may see a more even approach to the political reporting of Scotland from the Murdoch empire than what we have experienced from the more Unionist orientated media. Fair enough, the 'Sun' reporting will be dressed down to its usual standard but it should be remembered that those types of newspapers have a large following amongst the less discerning voters and their votes are ultra important, especially when it comes to the forth coming by election in Michael Martin's seat.
I wonder if the voting lists, after the by election, will go the same way as it did in Glenrothes? I suspect not. I suspect that the courts will make sure that no finger of doubt can be pointed in their direction. If it did happen again then I could only cringe at the expected furore which would erupt from another 'mistake'. Labour are going to have to be extra careful with their postal voting in this by election.
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Usually scapegoats are innocent but Martin clearly wasn't. I had assumed like many from the picture painted of him that he was the nicer side of Nulab but an image clearly emerges of a stubborn man seduced by Westminster and behaving with an air of entitlement that seemed to contradict his much over-played 'humble roots'. I thought to call him 'Gorbals Mick' was a disgrace and to attack him on his accent equally appalling but in this instance he did for himself much more than those who resented him on class grounds. I think he defended himself poorly too. He might have survived if on the Monday he had given many in 'the House' a clear indication that he was going at the next election and had apologised directly to those MPs he chastised previously. But the palpable anger straight after his announcement and the ensuing evening/nightime furore made it impossible for him to stay and I wasn't surprised in the least when he resigned on the Tuesday.
Obviously I think Martin was a patsy for those who have committed as much and worse fraud. They're obviously hoping he'll be their sacrificial lamb but I think anger is too deep to save them too and rightly so. Westminster is in a perillous state.
As a ScotNat it's simply more proof that Scotland must have nothing to do with such a corrupt cabal as Westminster and we would be stupid to wait around whilst they attempt to fix it.
Very disappointing though not surprising at all to hear "Scots" on BBC radio Scotland talking of the first time in 300+ years a Speaker has been ousted in a way which completely falied to qualify that they meant an English Parliament because as we all know full well the last time it happened in England Scotland still had her own sovereign Parliament.
Sorry to say BT but I don't hold out much hope for your documentary on devolution. You're a skilled wordsmith no doubt but I don't expect for one moment you'll convey to viewers just how fantastically well Norway has done and how easily Scotland could emulate it if it moves to independence. I fear you'll procrastinate as a means to obfuscate and do the Union's bidding once again.
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#104 Thomas
I'm not retreating into party sides or point scoring. But your previous comment could be interpreted that you were almost defending Angus Robertson.
I'm not attacking parties, I'm attacking ALL MPs who abused the expenses system, whether it was in the rules or not. I've also defended Alex Salmond, since I think the allegations about him are total nonsense.
But you cannot justify trying to claim over a grand for a television any more than you can defend claiming to clear out a moat.
The difference between the two is that a tv can be justified for allowing an MP to do his job properly. How clearing a moat out is beneficial is beyond me.
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# 108 hi gedguy,
Aye, that's a good point and I tend to agree with you but I think what is most important is the basis upon which they once based these attacks has really been shown up. An element of the votes that Labour interpreted as support for their position in Scotland is really a disguised appeal to institutional security, in my opinion. That security is long gone and those of us who have criticised Westminster have been vindicated: 'a gentleman's club', well that's just one description I can think for it ...
I remember glancing just quickly at the Sun's front page on the day of the 07 election and thought for a split second they came out in support of the SNP and then I realised what the picture really was. There is no better example of the way in which the media over-estimate, as you say, their perceived ability to influence things. Such blatant bias can go on only for so long, until people just shrug it off. I quite liked one journo's description of the impossibility of Martin's task trying to handle this expenses scandal as something akin to 'catching a waterfall in a bucket'. The same could perhaps be said for independence. Labour and the Tories may have a very big bucket but, nevertheless, sooner or later, they'll find it does them no good. My advice would for them is to instead go and build a sandcastle, and call it Westminster Renewed. Anyway, onwards and upwards, to something at least a little better than Westminster nonsense of politics. All the Best.
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#109 bluelaw
"I don't expect for one moment you'll convey to viewers just how fantastically well Norway has done and how easily Scotland could emulate it if it moves to independence."
This is where Taylor will reveal his true loyalties.
Let's see if he says:
1. "Norway has done extremely well but Scotland is 'too wee', 'too poor' etc, to do the same."
or, whether he says:
2. "Norway has done extremely well and Scotland could easily do the same."
I know which my money's on.
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Why has my post been referred to the Moderators? and why has it been removed?
#88 19 May at 9.12pm
It would be unbelieavable if what I wrote is removed.
Who can find it offensive? Michael Martin's fan group?
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#113 Rab
I've had some totally innocuous posts removed from the latest blog article.
The word has clearly been given to crack down on those "nasty CyberNat chappies" who are having a "field day" on BBC blogs!
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#114: I am shocked, there was nothing in my post that could be deemed ofensive. Letter on its way to the Corporation....
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Lets try again.
The Speaker of the House is not a mere class rep who speaks on behalf of everybody as an appointed spokesperson would do.
The Speaker is supposed to "lead" the House of Commons.
If The Right Honourable Members have been up to no good, it is the Speakers job to tick them off and ensure that proper standards have been followed.
According to most commentators, Michael Martin was not a very good Speaker: most people found him inarticulate and not a very good public speaker (with lower s).
This has nothing to do with class, background or accent: it is got to do with competence and ability.
Trying to cover up mentioning class, religion or education is an insult to our intelligence as voters. Michael Martin is a victim of his decision-making on this affair over a number of years, not only the last few weeks. This has got nothing to do with some phoney anti-Scottish, anti-working class, anti-Catholic conspiracy.
In my view, and most of the media, Michael Martin committed far too many errors to deserve any sympathy:
1) Fact: He was the main force behind the push for exemption from the FoI Act. He wanted the expenses system to be kept secret and wasted thousands of our tax money in legal fees.
2) Fact: When it was clear that this was going to come out, instead of saying sorry, instead of showing contrition or remorse, he calls in the Police to investigate the leak.
3) Fact: When a couple of backbenchers raise the issue, he shuts them down in a very unprofessional way, to the derision of the whole media, right and left. (Hoey MP)
4) Fact: When another backbencher raises the issue of a no-confidence motion, again the mumbles, and anybody watching his display on TV would not have been any wiser. Admittedly, his last performance before was already under the strain of unimaginable pressure to resign. But should someone that, after 30 years, has too seek advice on a point of order be the Speaker in the first place?
Last but not least, lets not forget that the Speaker, the Government and the Opposition have had a number of years to do something about this before it exploded in their faces.
So, you understand that most of us have no sympathy for the shop steward that became one of them.
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#115, thanks for the update. I am not a CyberNat though (I think) and I only wrote things that are just public knowledge. I have toned it down a bit and tried again but I am mistified that it was deemed defamatory.
It is in my own blog now though...
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Martin had to go but let it be remembered that the anti-Scottish, anti-clss insults he endured were a disgrace.
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