So far, so competent
So far, so competent, so assured.
Health ministers north and south of the border would appear to have sounded the correct note in response to swine flu.
Thought Nicola Sturgeon got it right.
Always tricky - but she contrived to balance a sense of calming the public with stressing that officials and ministers were taking the potential threat seriously.
Panic assists nobody. Hence the need to offer reassurance, to point for example to the fact that cases outside Mexico have, so far, involved relatively minor illness.
Equally, though, that move to reassure is bolstered when it is backed up by a detailed demonstration of the measures in place, for example to provide containment and vaccination, if necessary.
Both factors would appear to be in place. It is not, therefore, a case of wait and hope. More of prepare and decide.
PS: Advance warning. Blogs will be somewhat sporadic over the next few weeks. That is because I am preparing a documentary on 10 years of devolution.
However, I will attempt to post when I can spare a moment, thoroughly aware that this site has a life of its own through your very welcome comments. That needs occasional stimulus.
I'm 
© MMIX~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~05~RS~)
Comments
Sign in or register to comment.
Brian quick be off with you to the Hospital, you may have mexican flu, you have just written a positive story about the Scottish Government.
No doubt the Labour snipers will say that the SNP government are not doing enough and that under them it would be a lot better , in fact the SNP caused the flu , but under Labour we would have had a nicer Flu as part of the Union.
Now when you make your programme remember be un biased, and give us the facts not opinions of you know who :)
Complain about this comment
Never mind that Brian. The public are still waiting to hear why there has been a total media blackout about the SNP's latest YouGov poll results.
Why is that?
Was there a 'quiet word' with the BBC, The Scotsman and other media interests when the UK cabinet had its wee jolly up to Scotland recently?
Complain about this comment
"A documentary on 10 years of devolution"........that should be interesting..
Will it be followed by one entitled "Independence - what if?" so that we could make a comparison of where we are now with where we could have been..
Complain about this comment
Tell this to the flood victims from 2007 still waiting for a new home. Mind you it would be appropriate for Brown to be Flu Tsar given his nasal habits!
Complain about this comment
#1 romeplebian: ...in fact the SNP caused the flu...
What odds on the Scotsman running a "Swinney Flu" headline before long? Just a typo you understand, full and frank apology to be buried amidst the classifieds.
PS I'll repeat my gag from #657 of the previous thread - seems more on topic here:
Is there any truth in the rumour that Gordon Brown jumped for joy and gave one of his eery grins when he heard about Swine Flu being found in Britain? Until someone pointed out these weren't the flying pigs he's been pinning his hopes on! Oink! :8)
Complain about this comment
Note that blogs will be sporadic because of preparing a BBC documentary on 10 years of devolution. I look forward to seeing that. Would have been comforted if the time away from blogging was also filled by taking a basic maths course. It wad frae monie a blunder free us
An foolish notion.
Complain about this comment
2. It's another one of those dastardly unionist conspiracies to undermine the independence campaign, The_Blaec_Duglas.
Complain about this comment
Quite right, Brian, Nicola got it right as did Alex after the Glasgow Airport attack. Only hope Gordon doesn't try to use this as a smokescreen for his god-awful recent performances.
Could I make a plea to the PM , "please Gordon, resist the temptation to go on Youtube again over Swine Flu. It was funny when you did it on MPs expenses, but this is serious and doesn't need you smirking inappropriately"
Good luck with the documentary, hope you give it your usual balanced report. Interesting to hear your analysis of the performances of the Lab/Libdem Executive and the minority SNP Govt.
Complain about this comment
"A documentary on 10 years of devolution" sounds interesting to me as well. I have recently completed my master thesis "The SNP and the European Dimension of Scotland's Independence". Effective Reviews of the development of Scottish Devolution as well as its policy impact are needed.
Complain about this comment
Nicolo always looks lovely be in in real life or on the telly. She is pure caviar so she is. She has even been seen on telly in London maybe because Alan Johnson don't look that great for a health minister.
Seriously though maybe this is the one occasion that both government can unite to bring calm and sensibility to the matter.
Hope GB keeps well out of it and does not use it as said smokescreen for other pressing matters - i.e. the God awful mess he is making of all things political.
Complain about this comment
#7 reluctant-expat
Having been away from the blogs for a while I've missed your witty, urbane comments. Just be careful where you froth at the mouth, though, don't want you quarantined for having swine flu!
With Brown and co in charge, I don't think anything could undermine the independence campaign, their doing our job for us.
Complain about this comment
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
I suspect it's another damp squib like the bird flu!
Meanwhile , the media will work up another storm to keep all things off the front pages other than sneezing pigs.
Complain about this comment
Can anyone enlighten me?
Why is it called Swine Flu, when pigs are neither sufferers nor carriers?
Brian - on your documentary. I very much look forward to it, and I hope your posterior will not suffer from too much fence sitting over the 10 weeks of review.
Complain about this comment
# 12
Now I know that the mods are taking their job just a little too far. I hope they explain in their e-mail just where I broke the rules this time. I was complaining to Brian that this was not within his remit as this is a health story and that he is the political reporter. I hope you mods can explain this one.
Complain about this comment
good luck with the documentary,I am pleased it is yourself that is undertaking the task as we the viewer might get a programme that is balanced and free from the usual political spin from all sides. a great opportunity to celebrate the GOOD points in the Scottish parliament as we need to remember that the devolution process was and still is far bigger than political parties and the so called political elite.
what has been achieved so far with the executive & the government is good ,but there is so much more that can be done ,but getting people to work together instead of the ya boo sucks politics of Westminster has still to be achieved.
all in all the Scottish Parliament is still learning and as such mistakes will be made ,as long as the positives heavily outnumber the mistakes our democracy will grow and thrive, which after all is what the majority of Scots want
sid
Complain about this comment
Well its seems the Prime Minister's bogie hunting gets 630,000 hits on U tube while the 'official Downing Street for Brown, U tube' has had 4000.
Downing Street's most popular e petition is the one asking Brown to resign some 18,000 petitioners and rising.
Brian I hope you mention how ten years of devolution has taught us Scots just how unimportant and insignificant Labour is to our political welfare, reflects on the 23% increase in support for independence so the for and against camps are now running neck and neck and the rise and rise of the SNP (up 20% points of vote share against Labour since 2007).
Maybe you will also remark on the evaporation in Scottish Labour Conference attendance (400 in the Caird Hall seating 3,000 of whom 100 were protesting against Gordon's plans for the Post Office) or how about the failure of Labour in Scotland to find a leader willing to argue Scotland's corner since the demise of Donald Dewar - Joke McConnell, Bendy Wendy and now Elmer Fudd have hardly sent the spirit soaring as they fight Scotland's corner.
Then again I would guess it will be all about all the things that Calman and his commission have now dropped rather than the positive voice for Scotland Holyrood has become since May 2007.
Complain about this comment
Good for you Nicola you have in my opinion got your reaction to swine flu just right.Not that that can be said for some of the media who I am sure would welcome a more sensational story.
D Swabey Cumbernauld.
Complain about this comment
Brian
I'm not sure that I welcome swine flu; at least it will be a quick death.
Not like poor old Britain, the Treasury have started to believe their own smoke and mirror numbers, see http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8022447.stm
If you go back to the aftermath of the G20 the analysts came up with the fact that the new money in the 1.1 trillion was only 250 billion or about the same figure as the IMF thinks British banks have still to write off on bad loans. Malnutrition and starvation compounded the effects of the post WW1 Spanish flu. Hopefully swine fever will have passed by the time Brits start suffering from those two evils.
As to the documentary, one of you was to make a documentary and the other to cycle round Scotland and you drew the short straw?
Complain about this comment
17. Steady, slaintemha. Rash, baseless and unfounded claims get no-one anywhere.
"the 23% increase in support for independence so the for and against camps are now running neck and neck"
Let's have a look at the polls:
YouGov - Independence, straight choice:
YouGov 04/06 - For 46% Against 39%
YouGov 01/07 - For 40% Against 44%
YouGov 04/08 - For 34% Against 51%
SSAS 05 - 34% in favour of independence
SSAS 06 - 30%
SSAS 07 - 23%
(Any ideas where I can find 2008's figure?)
YouGov - Referendum wording:
11/06 - For 31% Against 50%
03/07 - For 28% Against 51%
01/08 - For 27% Against 57%
04/08 - For 34% Against 51%
07/08 - For 36% Against 48%
09/08 - For 34% Against 50%
10/08 - For 31% Against 53%
04/09 - For 37% Against 52%
TNS - Referendum wording:
08/07 - For 35% Against 50%
04/08 - For 41% Against 40%
07/08 - For 39% Against 41%
10/08 - For 35% Against 43%
02/09 - For 38% Against 40%
I see polls either showing 'decreasing support' or 'no major shift' but I see nothing like a "23% increase in support for independence".
Are you perhaps relying only on the SNP's own polls? It's best to include the more impartial polls if you want to see the true picture.
Complain about this comment
Good luck with the documentary. Make it factual, and please spend some time up here in Scotland gathering the facts for it, rather than receiving guidance on its content from you know who.
On the swine flu issue, we all just have to wait and see really. It has already jumped over the non-existent borders.
I'm surprised Jim Murphy hasn't been on telly saying his usual - "we have to review everything, and then do something", which really means nothing - appraisal of the situation, just like when he spoke about the nuclear breaches at Faslane.
Complain about this comment
17. I forgot to check this claim, slaintemha:
You claim a " rise and rise of the SNP (up 20% points of vote share against Labour since 2007)."
Just checked the polls and
May 07: SNP 37% Lab 30%
Aug 07: SNP 32% Lab 32%
Dec 07: SNP 40% Lab 29%
Apr 08: SNP 36% Lab 31%
Oct 08: SNP 32% Lab 29%
Apr 09: SNP 37% Lab 30%
So, contrary to your claim that the SNP are "up 20% points of vote share against Labour since 2007", it actually turns out that the polls are exactly the same.
I think we can safely say that everything you said in post 17 is nonsense, can't we.
Complain about this comment
# 12
I have just re-read the 'house rules' in case they have changed and I cannot, for the life of me, see where I have broken those rules. I eagerly await the mods e-mail so that I can put in a formal complaint to the BBC.
Complain about this comment
For those who are interested, please see below for what Brian actually meant...
"PS: Advance warning. Blogs will be somewhat sporadic over the next few weeks. That is because I am off on a coach tour of Labour strongholds with the Sons of Larkhall Social Club. 'Mon the Queen!"
Complain about this comment
No need to worry about the swine flu ! Gordon has just said that " Britain is well placed to get through it ". Funny , he said something similar about the recession. Oh ! My God! We're all doomed ! You better watch out too Brian when your wiring into the Tannadice pork pies ;--- you never know.
Complain about this comment
Iain Gray is still suffering from foot in mouth disease, never mind the Flu!
Complain about this comment
#22... it also makes a mockery of the BBC's insistance that the SNP honeymoon was over... seems like it has not faded in the slightest over the past 2 years since the election... indeed it even seems to have had some extremely high points during the first half of government.
Complain about this comment
It's quite funny to read over old posts, to see how true they have become.
Here's what I though was a funny one.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/briantaylor/2008/10/glow_or_gloom.html#P
Complain about this comment
OK, I don't think that link to one of my old posts worked, so here it is in full:
11:14am on 23 Oct 2008
Expat,
If the union is so wonderful, let's roll it out across the planet.
All governments of the world are to hand over their sovereignty to Westminster, because obviously nobody is capable of running an independent country, except Westminster.
So, countries of the world, say farewell to recession and budget deficit, because G.Brown will fix it, and say goodbye to your industries and banks, because A.Darling amd P.Mandelson will fix that.
All in all a good deal for the world.
You no longer have to worry about running your country, just let Westminster do it.
And, you no longer have to worry about money or resources, because Westminster will take all of that, and then make sure they give you just enough back to survive on.
The world will be remained Planet UK, and all countries flags will be replaced by a Planet UK flag.
There will be just one team at the Olympics, Team Planet UK, funded by everybody on the planet, which will be totally successful as they will win all the medals, Gold, Silver and Bronze.
Seems like an ideal solution.
Bring it on.
Complain about this comment
#29 HughEdinburgh
Wicked.
Complain about this comment
#29 HughEdinburgh: Yes, that's impeccable unionist logic! I just can't understand why the people of the world don't go for it ;o)
Regarding the broken link - if you click on the date/time stamp of a post you'll get the final numeric bit of the URL after the #P. There may still be a spurious <br/ > in the URL though, not sure anyone knows why - this can be deleted from the URL once the 404 page not found error appears.
Complain about this comment
So that's "unionist logic", is it? Ok, I'll take that exaggerated, nonsensical and silly post and I'll raise you genuine nationalists examples:
How about complaining that we (pop:5m) have little influence within the Bank of England (pop:60m) but claim we'll be better off within the Euro (pop:300m) where the concerns of Germany, France and Italy dominate monetary policy?
How about saying our economy will be better off if we had the Euro simply "because their interest rates are lower". So, no consideration whatsoever given to the (quite important) factors of differing inflationary pressures between the continent and us, or the differing economic cycles, or the differing economic structures, or the differing fiscal structures, how about our principal trading market is not in the Euro, how about...?
How about the SNP having a policy of joining the Euro but "leaving the decision to join the EU to the people"? How does that work?!
How about the SNP claiming Scotland will have "more influence in international affairs" by leaving a country with seats on the UN Security Council, the G8, the top table that is the EU 'Big Four' etc. and instead becoming the 112th largest population, the 56th largest economy, 20th largest population in the EU, the 19th largest economy in the EU...?
How about claiming we can develop our renewable energy resources and become a major net exporter of renewable energy despite there not being a market close enough to sell to? England, our current largest (by far) energy customer, is building barrages across the Severn and the Wash - both big enough to replace any 'imports' from Scotland. There goes that market!
How about the SNP placing documents on the SG website that 'prove' that we are both the 'worst performing small economy in the EU' (but only if you compare us with their selected list of countries and also to the overall average instead of one-to-one) and also the 'third richest country in the world'? Where's the cohesive logic there?
How about Salmond saying that Iceland is "too small to be relevant" when comparing economies (although he didn't think that before Iceland went to the IMF) but apparently Luxembourg, with the same population, is okay for that aforementioned comparison? (Oh yes, it bumps up that overall average. That's why.)
Oh yes, nationalist logic makes far more sense.
Complain about this comment
Oh, I forgot one.
How about the nationalist logic behind claiming we should develop an oil fund even though we currently spend our full share of oil tax revenues? Which are dwindling. Yes, let's cut hundreds of millions from our public services and save the money instead. Obviously we'd have to borrow and raise taxes to make up the difference but that all makes sense, doesn't it?
Oops, more yet!
How about claiming the "flow of resources is from Scotland to the south" when the UK has just spent around #600bn just on bailing out to Scottish-based banks? More than has been spent on all English-based banks combined and that amounts to 50% of the UK's overall GDP and is 400% of Scotland's GDP.
Oh yes, the nationalists make sense with every glorious utterance!
Complain about this comment
Dear God! He is talking to himself! Perhaps we should all just leave him in peace!
Complain about this comment
Oh yes! the nationalist claim, to end student debt? and install smaller class room sizes, ( as low as 18 pupils per classroom) and dont forget those claims to make Scotland safer with 1000 more polie-officer on the beat? and what about that 100Bn to safe one of Scotlands banks? and where are those promised new jobs and investment in re-newable energy?.
Never mind logic, what! about the back-log of broken promises.
Complain about this comment
#34 Diabloandco
Can't we tell him about reserved matters and that the deep brown stuff we're in is a product of Westminster? Please? All we are trying to do is to wriggle out of their "loving" embrace. Did he never have to suffer the hug and kiss from a great aunt with whiskers? I mean anything was better than that!
Complain about this comment
Looks like 2 posters are already infected Brian could you not ensure that they are quarantined post haste.
Complain about this comment
#35 derekbarker
We will not raise the rate of income tax in the life of this Parliament ( and a majority of more than 100).
No more Conservative boom and bust ( and 11 years in power).
We have saved the world ( Statement to Parliament).
Complain about this comment
#37
150 deaths in Mexico and cynicalhighlander wants to mock that? are all nationlist so callous?.
Complain about this comment
I see that Nick Robinson has closed his blog on MPs expenses to comments , he is now blogging in reverential tones about the Browns visit to Aushwitz.
I attended a talk by a minister ,religious variety, who had visited , he left us all in quiet tears.
Ex Pat and D Barker one and the same?? Just a thought.
Complain about this comment
#39 derekbarker
Just look at the responses of people to the Black Death. In amongst other reactions, flagellants, eat drink and be merry for tomorrow we die, etc., there were those that mocked. It wasn't callous, it was one way of coping.
Complain about this comment
#32 RE: England, our current largest (by far) energy customer, is building barrages across the Severn and the Wash
I understood that neither the Severn nor the Wash have had any tidal power schemes approved. Indeed the Department of Energy and Climate Change states the following about a possible Severn scheme:
A second public consultation (probably in 2010) will be held once we have all the detailed information on the costs, benefits and impacts of the final short-listed schemes, and before any decision is made on whether we want to support a Severn tidal power scheme and if so which one.
Similarly I couldn't find anything to suggest construction of a tidal power scheme in the Wash is underway.
I find it most unusual that they are already building these schemes before any designs have been finished, costed or approved. Please do share with us your source of information that indicates "England...is building" these schemes.
Complain about this comment
Reluctant-Expat,
"How about complaining that we (pop:5m) have little influence within the Bank of England (pop:60m) but claim we'll be better off within the Euro (pop:300m) where the concerns of Germany, France and Italy dominate monetary policy?"
The European Union is fast becoming a modern day Union, but why should Scotland be disadvabtaged by being chained to the United Kingdom? Please also, how about explaining why small country's take part in the European Union... because by your logic there is nothing good in it apart from the big bad four!
"How about the SNP having a policy of joining the Euro but "leaving the decision to join the EU to the people"? How does that work?!"
It's a called a referendum. It's what democracy is, but it's not a suprise that you would not understand what true democracy is.
"How about the SNP claiming Scotland will have "more influence in international affairs" by leaving a country with seats on the UN Security Council, the G8, the top table that is the EU 'Big Four' etc. and instead becoming the 112th largest population, the 56th largest economy, 20th largest population in the EU, the 19th largest economy in the EU...?"
If you can describe how the being on the UN securit council, G8, the top table in the EU in which it has had a positive effect to Scotland then I guess the SNP are right.
Scotland would have a larger voice on the international front because we will do what we want and not what Westminister wants.
"How about Salmond saying that Iceland is "too small to be relevant" when comparing economies (although he didn't think that before Iceland went to the IMF) but apparently Luxembourg, with the same population, is okay for that aforementioned comparison? (Oh yes, it bumps up that overall average. That's why.)"
Iceland is still a good example, they benefited from their independence.
However because of their Government, they failed, but that can happen in Scotland too... and indeed it has happened in the British National Parliament for years...
P.S
Does it not get tired repeating the same strories, Scotland yer too poor to be independent! Don't be daft!
and despite all this willingless of showing how Scotland can't surive as an independent nation... are you not forgetting that you also have to explain why we should remain in the Union?
The same Union which has allowed to fail in soo many areas...
Complain about this comment
Reluctant-Expat is still determined to even blame Scotland over finanical services which we have no authority over.
I suspect we will be blamed for the Iraq war, our nuclear submarines and the common cold soon.
Complain about this comment
#32 Reluctant Expat [Emphases my own]-
"England, our current largest (by far) energy customer, is building barrages across the Severn and the Wash - both big enough to replace any 'imports' from Scotland."
Just because this is a topic I'm specially interested in -
"is building" is glossing over the facts, just a little. As far as The Wash barrage is concerned -
"Entrepreneur and founder of Pipex Internet, Dr Peter Dawe, has submitted plans for a an 11 mile tidal barrier across the mouth of the Wash. The barrier would generate electricity from tidal currents, and would protect large areas of Norfolk, Cambridgeshire and Lincolnshire from flooding.
Dawe believes that the £2bn-£3bn cost of building the barrage can be raised by private sources, and the investment would be recouped over its lifetime by selling the electricity it generates - the equivalent of a large nuclear power station."
This is from - http://www.tidalenergy.eu/wash_barrage.html - I can't be bothered to embed the link here.
The fact that "an entrepreneur" has submitted "a plan" hardly equates to [The UK] "is building" does it?
On top of which - the estimated yield from the [planned] barrage, as quoted, is expected to be "the equivalent of a large nuclear power station." And how many "large power stations" does UK Plc want to build? More than one, I understand. So that hardly equates to "There goes that market!" does it.
On top of which (Still further) - you've left out the fact that green electricity is eminently more marketable than coal or nuclear. Governments will buy it to meet emissions targets. Homes will buy it for its "Green value." Utilities companies will buy it to sell on for profits.
Hope that helps . . .
Complain about this comment
How long must Unionists spin and lie to the general public?
DerekBarker, when did Salmond ever promise to put up 1 billion for ANY bank?
Oh shall you use the Scotsman story?
The same paper who normally pints out stories against the SNP no matter what... and how wrong they are.
I guess I shall start looking at the back of cereal boxes for my information.. it would still prove more useful rather then reading these Unionists comments.
Complain about this comment
Re my #45 -
Wow, the link embedded itself. Fantastic. I don't want to bring a tide of disapproval down on my head but so far . . . touch wood . . . this new format seems ever so more html friendly. It even pointed out to me that I'd mixed up my tags when I previewed it.
Complain about this comment
Thomas Porter, most of your posts continue to be a combination of ignorance, misunderstanding and failure to grasp simple points, so I'll ignore them as usual.
But as for this: "Does it not get tired repeating the same strories, Scotland yer too poor to be independent! Don't be daft!"
For the countless-th time, no-one, I repeat no-one, has ever said Scotland is too poor to be independent. No-one. To suggest such a thing clearly makes no sense when there are so many poorer countries in the world. Quite how you can come to such a ridiculous interpretation is beyond all comprehension.
What is being said, and it is quite clear to almost everyone else, is that the SNP have not shown in any way whatsoever that life in Scotland will be any better as an independent nation. Indeed, their confused, conflicting and self-contradicting statements, comments, ideas and policies almost all point to us being worse off.
I fully expect to have to explain this to you again in the very near future.
Complain about this comment
Thomas Porter, you underestimate your fellow country-men.
If Independence was the land of dripping honey for the Scots, then Scotlands people would have moved an Independence motion long ago.
Thomas, as pointed out so many times, there's nothing to suggest that Scotland would be a more prosperous place under Independence, it just defines border lines or do you want to ignore the rest of the UK?.
Complain about this comment
I clearly should have specified that they 'intend to build' these two schemes (incl. the Wash which is a little more than some entrepreneurial notion). I must remember to 'spoon-feed'.
45. My point, which I thought was quite clear (are you and 'Thomas_Porter' the same poster?), was that these schemes will match our current energy exports to England thereby negating much need for England to import energy (renewable or otherwise) from Scotland.
Furthermore, there are precious few alternative markets, if any, that are both close enough to make transmission viable and who are not in a position to develop their own renewable energy.
In summary, the SNP notion of Scotland becoming a "Saudi Arabia of renewable energy' does not even make it out of the gate.
Right. I'm off out. I'll leave you lot to gnash and wail.
Complain about this comment
Reluctant-Expat:
Then why promote the banking situation as reason why Scotland can't be independent?
Then why promote the GERS as some sort of reason Scotland can't be independent because of the negative numbers?
You may not be using the words, "Scotland's too poor." but you are certainly impying that for some financial reason, Scotland would be having difficulty.
However it's all possible, but what I don't like seeing are facts of information that shows Scotland lagging while we are continue in the Union.
It's like being slapped in the face and being held as some sort of blackmail leverage, stay or else!
It's not good for Scotland, and even many Unionists support further powers because even they realise that Scoland could be bettered governed at home.
Complain about this comment
#35 Derek remember when New Labour claimed 'Things can only get better' or when Gordon Brown claimed to have ended 'boom and bust' too name but two broken promises......you be the pot Derek, I'll be the kettle.
Complain about this comment
#50 RE: I clearly should have specified that they 'intend to build' these two schemes (incl. the Wash which is a little more than some entrepreneurial notion). I must remember to 'spoon-feed'.
Hmmm, who is "they" RE? Let's look again at my quote from DECC, this time with added emphasis as, in your case, spoon-feeding is clearly required:
A second public consultation (probably in 2010) will be held once we have all the detailed information on the costs, benefits and impacts of the final short-listed schemes, and before any decision is made on whether we want to support a Severn tidal power scheme and if so which one.
Doesn't exactly say that "they intend to build" these schemes now does it? Not if "they" is England as per your #32. And can you show us something to indicate that the Wash scheme is currently "more than an entrepreneurial notion"? It seems to be precisely that at the moment.
Rather than remembering to spoon-feed us RE, how about you remember to tell the truth instead? I think we can safely say that everything you said in posts 32 and 50 is nonsense, can't we?
Complain about this comment
I'm a fan of the Health Minister, but I'm afraid they have seriously messed up here. I'm talking about the "Aroma" cafes being trialled.
Big, big mistake here. The WRVS have been providing a sterling service for years. So why they need to replace it?
Complain about this comment
derekbarker:
#49.
"If Independence was the land of dripping honey for the Scots, then Scotlands people would have moved an Independence motion long ago."
True, but what have we seen from Westminister?
There have been M15 agents set out to undermine support for independence and dis-credit SNP cadidtates and members, hidden and secret reports that shows Scotland to be capanle of independence and the usual either keeping us out of the loop of our capabilities or not allowing Scotland to know how much revenues she collects. It's all best guess figures that we see.
"Thomas, as pointed out so many times, there's nothing to suggest that Scotland would be a more prosperous place under Independence, it just defines border lines or do you want to ignore the rest of the UK?."
There's is nothing that would suggest Scotland to be a worse place as an independent country, but we do have all the chance to one day better ourselves far beyond the standards we have at the momemt.
If you believe this is as far as we can come then you have a low opinion of what we can reach.
Complain about this comment
Dear Reluctant-Expat, #50 -
"I must remember to 'spoon-feed"'. If by "Spoon-feed", you mean, "tell the truth" then, yeah . . . it's a useful habit to pick up.
[A} little more than some entrepreneurial notion."
Prove it. I suspect that "an entrepreneurial notion" is exactly what it is.
According to Dawe's own website -
"The Wash Tidal Barrier Corporation plc is a private company, founded by Cambridgeshire-based entrepreneur Peter Dawe specifically to promote and build a barrier."
Those who need more evidence are welcome to visit here - http://www.washbarrier.org/index.html - and see for themselves. Marvel at the unfinished site, the empty links page, the skillful use of words like "opportunity", "proposed" and "approximately."
If only all "entrepreneurial notions" could rise so far and achieve so much.
Doesn't hold a lot of water though, does it?
Now, if you've got photos of earthmovers busily shifting Norfolk silt, feel free to share them. Otherwise folk might think you'd taken an [entrepreneurial] notion to, y'know, embellish the truth a little.
But who'd think that of you, eh?
Complain about this comment
#53
I'm afraid you close your eyes to the recent budget, that clearly outlined new monies for such new energy schemes forfar-loon.
Yuo know it's alright to be honest about public endeavours and it's quite wrong just to be anti-poltical, just for the sake of favouritism?.
Complain about this comment
#55
Thomas, Our revenues (inclusive of oil)with a pop of some 5 million have been the real subject why the natioalist have failed to convince the wider Scottish public.
You see! when Alex is asked to show us the money, the SNP argument falls deaf.
Complain about this comment
Thomas / expat and others
The reason I support continued union, and believe others ought to is relatively simple.
point one:
Scotland could be independent. No one can possible argue that it couldnt work out a budget to manage such independence. The question in my mind is this: what would be the cost of achieving a sustainable and independent Scotland?
point two: the cost of independence would be over-exposure to major assymetric shocks (such as the oil market), and a major increase in taxation to fund the newly independent nation would be vital (in order to make independent Scotland increase revenue)- which undermines Edinburgh's possition as an attractive financial sector for foreign capital to be invested into. We become less competitive.
point three: yes under independence major taxation increases would be vital to making it all work, as Scotland's adjusted GVA (2007, most recent avaliable on the executive's own website)was 91,311. This is too low to fund the Scotland of independence. To increase it tax goes up across all socal stratifications.
Why on earth is all of this pain necessary when we can enjoy lower taxation, higher public spending and greater economic stability (through avoiding asymmetric oil-price shocks) under the union? Where is the practical need? You see I want the Scottish people to enjoy higher stnadards of living, with greater financial personal freedoms from the state, and independence can work, but it would reverse all of these benefits which are enjoyed under union. It is hardly practical from a welfare and quality of life point of view- as people would enjoy less income for the same rate of welfare spending and investment.
Conclusion: it is independence for independence sake, and the people can simply 'make do'. Hardly an attractive option to my mind.
Complain about this comment
Derek:
#58.
I would be interested to see where you found figures that clearly shows Scotland intake annually, and please I do not wish to see figures that are based on a best guess case.
Scotland as far as I know generates about 100 billion annually, and from that I do believe we can run a successful country. By considering we currently look after the main internal runnings of this country already, what's stopping us going further?
Complain about this comment
#58 derekbarker -
"You see! when Alex is asked to show us the money, the SNP argument falls deaf."
Which; by the convoluted, illogic of your contention; means that when "Alex is asked", he can't hear you, on account of being deaf(!)
Mocking the handicapped now, are we?
Complain about this comment
@ 55 thomas
"There's is nothing that would suggest Scotland to be a worse place as an independent country"
No evidence? Our GVA figures are lower than the current rate of Scottish spending, thus higher taxation and greater oil reliance would result in order to merely maintain our current rates of expenditure. How is this not placing Scottish people in a worse place?
Less financial independence
less expendable income to spend on our service economy
greater exposure economically to asymmetric shocks
How on earth can you deem this as being anything other than worse for most Scottish people and our economy overall?
Isnt nationalism really about an interpreted view of what Scotland is and how best to be a nationalist?
I see Scotland as its people (not borders and maps as you seem to do), to me to be a good nationalist is to seek to make Scots lives easier and better, not on re-establishing borders and immigration control at Edinburgh and Jedburgh. My understanding of what Scotland is is different to yours, you seem to think Scotland is about ambassadors, border control and lines on a map, minds is all about our people.
Complain about this comment
Any "Scot" who ignores the absolutely disgusting and immoral expropriation of Scottish oil and the callous manner in which even now Westminster and its apologists seek to obfuscate its true value to Scotland is simply a traitor and a coward in my book. You are quite literally colluding against the interests of your country and its people and you should be utterly ashamed.
Complain about this comment
#54
With you 100% on this one Neil, a damned disgrace. I don't mind paying a little over the odds at a WVS for a cup of coffee and a ham roll because I know that any profit (and indeed the wee bits of spare change that most people put in the box) go straight to Hospital Funds. A lot of things get bought that wouldn't be, and it's not just kit. A lot of things for the patients.
A quick mention of the WVS Shop at Inverclyde. OK, the coffee may not be Rainforest certified Organic Low fat,and you may have to pick bits out of the sugar, but you won't get a better ham roll this side of NY or a better fruit scone.
A lot of Ladies and gentlemen feel that they give back to their local hospital through the WVS shops and stands in a very personal way.
All this guff about "healthy eating" and "creating jobs". Its a smokescreen.
But this isn't Government Policy. This is NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde, and since Clyde was forced to merge with Glasgow, it's been downhill all the way for the staff and patients west of Govan.
NHS Aroma. Stick it up your nose.
And while we appreciate that Nicola has a wee bit on her plate just now, I encourage everyone to contact her directly or their MSP and complain vigorously. Not only because of the naked element of profiteering (guess whether or not a coffee at NHS Aroma will be 45p ?) but because of this forced divorce between a community and its hospital.
Complain about this comment
#57 derekbarker: I'm afraid you close your eyes to the recent budget, that clearly outlined new monies for such new energy schemes forfar-loon.
Erm, no I don't Derek. As far as I know the budget didn't earmark any money for the Wash/Severn tidal power schemes. Largely because no decision has been made to proceed with them. Unless of course you can demonstrate otherwise in which case I'll be happy to agree.
Check out the Guardian's report on the implications of the budget for the renewables sector: Budget 2009: Darling gives renewables a £5bn shot in the arm. Seems like wind and solar might benefit rather than tidal. As an aside I note that 4 of the 5 billion is to come from the European Investment Bank...rather a generous headline for Darling don't you think?!
Given the above, and the vehement environmental objections to both, I wonder how far away the Wash and Severn tidal schemes are from becoming reality? I would venture to say they are not quite as imminent as RE (imp)lies. But hey, why let the truth get in the way of a good rant against independence?
Complain about this comment
Brown left red-faced by debt lecture from Polish Prime Minister. Looking more MugaBrown as every day passes clinging onto power for powers sake.
Complain about this comment
#60
Thomas, you are trying to base your argument on hearsay numbers, remember when AS based his 9million take on north sea oil and failed to implement that monies into the system, that would have resulted in a 2Bn short fall of Scottish public finance? "REMEMBER" and dont forget that it was also based on the price of oil at 150 dollars a barrel?.
The point being Thomas, an Independent Scottish government would struggle to match the now 30Bn public budget.
If you have such proof of a vast wealth in Scotland then please by all means share the news.
Complain about this comment
63. bluelaw
"Any 'Scot' who" disagrees with his interpretation of nationalism and the need for independence is "simply a traitor and a coward".
Is this the best the SNP supporters and cybernats can come up with whe expat and myself present clear and rational evidence of our position? Cant SNP supporters tolerate any opinions or interpretations of events other than their own?
Sad, and not exactly the strongest case for independence is it if all you can say is "if you dont agree with us then your a traitor and coward"?
Complain about this comment
#65
forfar-loon, not to mention the EU fund for re-newables, A. Darling clearly outlined a new investment for the said tidal power of some 425m.
I'm pretty sure you are aware of the value of re-newables in terms of jobs and cleaner energy, I'm also pretty sure you never missed the nod from Darlings budget to tidal power.
Complain about this comment
DeanTheTory:
First of all I have never mentioned borders, lines, maps or even ambassdors.
If you'd like to know my opinion then please ask and I will easily share them, but please do not write something and suggest I support the idea... that's what I call lying.
Now please share with me how you came to the conclusion that I see an independent Scotland having borders?
Ridiculous.
By the way is your figures currenly going to be effected due to the recession at the moment?
Plus we are effected by oil prices. Taxes are placed into one big pot, and if estimates happen to be lower then last years then Government's will act to either find ways to recoup the money through higher taxes or cuts.
It's rather embarressing that you seek to claim that Scotland's services are immune to the oil markets, we have had out grant cut so you are asking us to rely on the UK Governments Books instead of the oil markets...
I do seek to make Scotland a better place to live. However simply because we disagree on what the best course of action is does not suggest that either of us are wrong, less Scottish or even unpatriotic.
Have you other scaremongering stories to tell? Will the lakes and rivers dry up come independence?
Complain about this comment
derekbarker:
#60
"Thomas, you are trying to base your argument on hearsay numbers, remember when AS based his 9million take on north sea oil and failed to implement that monies into the system, that would have resulted in a 2Bn short fall of Scottish public finance? "REMEMBER" and dont forget that it was also based on the price of oil at 150 dollars a barrel?.
The point being Thomas, an Independent Scottish government would struggle to match the now 30Bn public budget.
If you have such proof of a vast wealth in Scotland then please by all means share the news."
This is ridiculous.
How much do you believe Scotland generates from taxes annually?
Complain about this comment
#69 derekbarker:
I'm not disputing there will be some money for tidal power from the budget, indeed the Guardian report I link to mentions that 405m of the budget money will likely benefit both wind and tidal power. What I am disputing are RE's mendacious claims about potential Wash and Severn schemes. Are they being built? No. Has a decision to build them been made? No. Would a share of 425m be enough? No.
Have a read of this website's Severn's tidal barrage rejected for the latest on one such scheme. Note that this particular scheme would have been "multi-billion".
Complain about this comment
#71
Thomas you clearly have problems with what constitutes Scotlands collective wealth in terms of foreign investment, foreign mortgage and loan lending.
Thomas what rate of income tax would any Scottish Independent government impose on it's people?.
Complain about this comment
#72
forfar-loon, I do believe you are some-what mixed up on the forward progression of flood control as opposed to tidal power, although there may be a projected future joint op/the need to finance both are separate at this giving time.
Complain about this comment
70. Thomas_Porter
Sorry Thomas if you do not like the reality. I am not telling scare stories, merely Scotland's true position.
Just because you do not like the reality my statisitcs, this doesnt make them scaremongering. You have openly admitted previously that your statistics are 'opinion'- well mine are facts, as published by the Scottish Executive (sorry if that doesnt fit into your natland image of Scotland land of milk and honey)
Complain about this comment
I like how we get from swine flu to iceland to independence to oil to traitors and finally the WRVS :))
I'm going to repeat this about the WRVS - the NHS is taking them for a ride and are going to destroy all the work they have done, simply because the NHS management see this as a business opportunity.
Please, please Nicola get this recinded immediately.
Complain about this comment
Thomas Porter:
"Now please share with me how you came to the conclusion that I see an independent Scotland having borders?"
So you are saying that an Independent Scotland would have no borders? What- so the SNP favours a 'no border controls or immigration control' strategy? That is the real ridiculous suggestion Mr Porter, hardly my argument that an independent Scotland would have borders.
And will my statistics change by the recession? Yes, the level of public spending on social services and benefits will rise well above the 2007 level. So this hardly supports your case that an Independent Scotland wouldnt need higher taxes does it?
And care to comment on the Scottish Exectives figures on Scotlands products UK subsidy of 6.94% (2007)? Where would the money come from to replace that subsidy or would you be content to let Scottish product exports drop massively during our economic reccession and recovery?
Complain about this comment
#74 derekbarker: forfar-loon, I do believe you are some-what mixed up on the forward progression of flood control as opposed to tidal power, although there may be a projected future joint op/the need to finance both are separate at this giving time.
No Derek, no mix up here. The Severn and Wash schemes we've all been talking about are emphatically for power generation. Nobody else has mentioned flood control except you. I think enough has been said on the subject for now anyway. Nice to head off-topic now and again though :o)
Complain about this comment
76. Neil_Small147
What should Sturgeon reverse? What is this crisis your talking about?
(It seems rather serious)
Complain about this comment
*59
Finally someone talking sense about Scottish Independence.
There is nothing in my opinion that would be enough to counteract the sacrifices that Scotland would have to make in becoming an independent nation. I agree that there is little doubt that we could be run as an independent nation but why would we want to do that?
Is our freedom of expression or our way of life oppressed being part of the UK? Are we unable to influence decisions that happen in our country and our lives? Is the Scottish Identity losing its significance in the world at large? The answer to these and other questions is no. On the latter point I lived in Canada for over a year and the only way in which I was identified was Scottish, not British.
We are represented on may issues at a Scottish level in the SP and our ministers in Westminster, one would say influence more than their fair share of public policy. Im not saying that I agree with the decisions taken but they are taken by Scots. If you have problems, to such an extent that you disagree with the government in Westminster then stand for election as an MP and make a difference. I am sure that many in other parts of the UK are unhappy with the decisions that this government has taken.
What happens when Alex Salmond makes a decision that is less than popular, shall we divide then into smaller sections of society who agree more readily on certain issues. Shall we have a Republic of South Scotland and A United States of North Scotland. How far to we have to divide? The world is becoming more Global, why do we want to become more isolated.
Some have posted above about the bail out of the Scottish Banks and its affects in an independent Scotland. I whole agree that Scotland on its own could not have coped with such a crisis. Just because regulation would be ours independently in a separate Scotland, are we so blind that we would perceive that our regulator would have foreseen the banking crisis? RBS as it exists now could not have a bail out. With assets and liabilities of over £1 trillion, no Scottish Government could stand behind that balance sheet.
Finally, the issue of independence has to, as with any other major issue of this nature, be decided in a democratic process. I would hope that the majority of Scots would understand that is Scotland is better off in the union and that any vote would settle this debate once and for all.
Complain about this comment
#77 deanthetoryboy -
"[C]are to comment on the Scottish Exectives figures on Scotlands products UK subsidy of 6.94% (2007)?"
I would comment, if I could figure out what on earth that sentence was supposed to mean. Stirling Uni used to have quite a well regarded English Studies Department, it's obviously gone down hill a lot recently.
Complain about this comment
#78
forfar-loon, just a little link for good faith, not a new concept but still very much on-going.
http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/static/documents/Research/tidal_severn_strategy.pdf
Complain about this comment
Changing topic, what do we all make of the 1 million GBP of bonuses that have apparently been paid to the Tram bosses in Embra? (Tram chiefs ride away with 1m GBP in bonuses) Those trams are looking pretty expensive in these austere times.
#82 derekbarker: Yep, flooding is definitely a problem along the Severn river. I've worked with a few folk that got flooded there a few years back, not much fun at all to clean up that mess. Thanks for helping the Barca/Chelsea game go more quickly! Disappointing game although it livened up a wee bit towards the end.
Complain about this comment
81. Bandages_For_Konjic
What does it mean? Well, erm.. exactly what it says rather.
Let me put it differently;
Scotland's products (i.e. manufactured items) are currently subsidised by 6.94%- according to the Scottish Executives 2007 figures. My question was this: given that this is the case, could Thomas not retract his statement that Scotland wouldnt need to increase general taxation hansomely to meet these financial burdens as an independent state.
Or would he prefer (and you?)to simply see Scotlands manufactured goods production fall, and unemployment rise rather than finding monies to make up this subsidy shortfall?
I hope its clear enough what I am saying. And one last thing, next time you refer to me as Tory boy with malicious intent I shall refer your comments to the moderator, there is no real requirement for impolite or intemporate behaviour in a discussion between individuals.
Complain about this comment
#80
Oh dear... Not the old "Scotland couldn't have bailed out RBS" argument..
I really wish you unionists would understand that if Scotland had been independent and therefore RBS had not been under the malign influence of the UK Treasury and the City of London and the poor quality regulation of Brown's FSA then it would have been highly unlikely that RBS would have got into the mess it did.
Complain about this comment
#84
Qyite right Dean, there was a time when politics was about the exchange of ideas ans so on.
Complain about this comment
wee-scamp, Scottish regulators wouldnt have seen the financial crisis any more quickly than Alex Salmond saw it.
It is more likly that the RBS would still have needed saving, and Salmond was after all talking of an independent Scotland under his leadership emulating Iceland- under the SNP we would not have radically changed regulatory rules at all, if anything we would under the SNP have deregulated further as Salmond attempted to emmulate the Arc of Insolvency.
The UK safety blanket helped us avoid following the Iceland example that the nationalists wanted our financial system to match.
Complain about this comment
#85
Wee-Scamp, you cann't be serious! surely, Scotlands banks would have been safer under Independence?. There's got to be shome mishtake!there Scampi.
Complain about this comment
UK 'creates market for torture' Prava aka BBC ran this story and it then suddenly goes AWOL I wonder who pulling the strings.
Unionists I see are running around like headless chickens thinking everything will be hunky doory in a year or so and things will carry on as before sorry to tell them they better wake up and realise that the UK economy is heading downward fast without any brakes, enjoy your ride before hitting the buffers flat out.
Complain about this comment
#89
Yes cynicalHighlander the world economy is in free-fall, hopefully unlike the 1930's the world can unite to stem it's down turn. These are dangerous times and the world must unite or most probably face it's crash landing.
Complain about this comment
#84 deanthetoryboy -
"Well, erm.. exactly what it says rather."
Rather . . . than what?
"Let me put it differently."
If by "differently", you mean, "in a way that makes sense" then, by all means, be my guest.
Now, on to more pressing matters -
"And one last thing, next time you refer to me as Tory boy with malicious intent I shall refer your comments to the moderator."
I feel obliged, seeing as you insisted ever so, to refer you to that notable Tory thinker and wit; Mr Jeremy Clarkson.
His defense, as I recall, against allegations that he had "impolitely and intemporately" called Her Majesty's Minister Prime a "one-eyed Scottish idiot" was that he had been speaking nothing but the unvarnished, empirical truth - The Right Honourable Member for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath was Scottish, had the use of only one eye and was demonstrably an idiot.
A stout defense and one which many supported.
That being the case, I fail to see anything in my references to you that would fail the same, clear-sighted and sensible test.
You've given your name as "Dean", by your own admission you are an affiliate of the Conservative and Unionist Party (Late of Stirling Constituency, now no longer, much to the lamentations of at least one voter and a Daschund named Kevin) and, equally, by your own words you are less than advanced in years.
Where's the "malicious intent" in calling a spade, a spade? (As Mr Clarkson, in his winningly bluff and ready way, would no doubt put it)
Complain about this comment
"That is because I am preparing a documentary on 10 years of devolution."
Look forward to it Brian.
You could follow up with one about Glen and Labour in Scotland, called "10 years of devotion." :O)
Complain about this comment
#90. derekbarker
"Yes cynicalHighlander the world economy is in free-fall, hopefully unlike the 1930's the world can unite to stem it's down turn. These are dangerous times and the world must unite or most probably face it's crash landing."
Would you care to elaborate?
Complain about this comment
79. At 9:20pm on 28 Apr 2009, deanthetory wrote:
76. Neil_Small147
What should Sturgeon reverse? What is this crisis your talking about?
(It seems rather serious)
The WRVS have been running quite happily and are well respected. But look at what the NHS are trialling - "NHS Aroma".
Since when did the NHS become a retailer? The NHS is a public health service which should be concentrating on this. Aroma is being run as a business under the guise of "returning everything to the NHS".
The NHS will use their financial clout to ensure that Aroma is the "best option" for the NHS.
Total codswallop. They cannot keep hospitals clean, so how are they going to cope with catering?
It is the NHS playing the private sector game. I've worked in private, public and charitable sectors. The WRVS are quite capable of running things and they are popular. Aroma will simply start off cheap, and once established prices will go up.
They should be spending their time on providing a health service, not a coffee shop.
#85 wee scamp
No-one can say with any certainty that banks would or would not fail under independence.
However, under an independent Scotland, they only way banks could have maintained their business would have been with light regulation, since if it was too tight then foreign banks would have got the business. And a Scottish Government would not deny inward investment as that would cost jobs and affect the economy.
Bottom line is that it has happened. Now it has to be dealt with. There is no point in harping on about the past. Those arguments, while teaching a valuable lesson for the future, do not change one thing.
Complain about this comment
The Conservative’s New Boundary Map
dean!
Complain about this comment
#80 captain_kirk248:
A long post deserves a long answer!
Are we unable to influence decisions that happen in our country and our lives?
Will you still be asking that if the Tories win the next GE with only a few MPs from Scotland? We certainly won't have much influence in that scenario, at least if past experience is anything to go by.
Is the Scottish Identity losing its significance in the world at large? The answer to these and other questions is no. On the latter point I lived in Canada for over a year and the only way in which I was identified was Scottish, not British.
Having also lived abroad it was always a struggle to get people to refer to Britain instead of England. And a great many people I've come across were completely ignorant of Scottish being something distinct from English. So the answer to your question is also "yes". Perhaps Canada is a special case as it has a large population of Scottish origin? Then again I found Kiwis all too easily conflated Britain and England despite many Scots emigrating to NZ over the years.
We are represented on may issues at a Scottish level in the SP and our ministers in Westminster, one would say influence more than their fair share of public policy. Im not saying that I agree with the decisions taken but they are taken by Scots.
Quite true over the last 12 years. But what about under a future (or past!) Tory government? Can't imagine they're going to have too many ministers from Scotland.
If you have problems, to such an extent that you disagree with the government in Westminster then stand for election as an MP and make a difference. I am sure that many in other parts of the UK are unhappy with the decisions that this government has taken.
We can't all be MPs! We should be able to make a difference with our votes. But what Scotland votes for (at Westminster elections), Scotland doesn't necessarily get.
Other parts of the UK are undoubtedly unhappy with many, many decisions. The fringes of England (north and southwest) are the areas I feel most sorry for. No decisions made with their interests at heart, no other representation like we, Wales and NI have.
What happens when Alex Salmond makes a decision that is less than popular, shall we divide then into smaller sections of society who agree more readily on certain issues. Shall we have a Republic of South Scotland and A United States of North Scotland. How far to we have to divide?
Salmond will lose votes and ultimately power if he makes too many unpopular decisions. In contrast, if Cameron has a decent majority after the next GE, will it matter if he loses a few Scottish votes? Not really.
Regarding endless sub-division, I don't sense much appetite for that in Scotland. The reason Scotland is viewed as a single entity is due to a long history as such, as well as things like a separate legal system, education system, etc.
Ultimately democracy comes down to the demos, the people. For some the demos is the Scots, for others the British, for a few the Shetlanders! If you are a democrat, then how you answer that question pretty much decides whether you are pro- or anti-independence.
The world is becoming more Global, why do we want to become more isolated.
Who wants to be isolated?! Why does isolation follow from independence in your mind? A total non sequitur. At the moment Scotland is almost invisible on the world stage. So why do you imagine we'd turn into some hermit state if independent? That flies in the face of our history and the outward-looking nature of most Scots.
Some have posted above about the bail out of the Scottish Banks and its affects in an independent Scotland. I whole agree that Scotland on its own could not have coped with such a crisis. Just because regulation would be ours independently in a separate Scotland, are we so blind that we would perceive that our regulator would have foreseen the banking crisis? RBS as it exists now could not have a bail out. With assets and liabilities of over ?1 trillion, no Scottish Government could stand behind that balance sheet.
Careful Captain! You should know better than to mess with time travel. As I've said previously, if Scotland had been independent Nessie would have come out of hiding and pooped gold onto the streets of every city, town and village in the land, so we could easily have paid off even 100 trillion pounds of debt. Nonsense? Yes. But so is changing one thing, rewinding the clock and assuming everything else would have been exactly the same.
Look on the bright side. We now know all too well not to let our banks get too big when independence comes. No doubt we'll make other mistakes, but that's life. We all make mistakes (whisper it if you dare - even the UK!), hopefully learn from them and move on. We'll also have fabulous successes. And the nice part is, we will sink or swim on our own efforts! I don't suppose you would settle for anything less as an individual, so why as a nation?
Finally, the issue of independence has to, as with any other major issue of this nature, be decided in a democratic process. I would hope that the majority of Scots would understand that is Scotland is better off in the union and that any vote would settle this debate once and for all.
I agree that it should be decided democratically. The tricky bit will be to get agreement on the question! Do we go for a range of options with STV? Or is it a straight choice between independence and status quo?
One thing I'm sure on, a simple majority of the votes cast should win the day. No arbitrary 2/3 majority or 40% of all voters. If people don't bother to vote we should assume they don't care either way, and not count their non-votes for one or other side.
Complain about this comment
#82 Derekbarker
What planet are you from? Have you just beamed down with Captain Kirk (#80)?
For my sins, I now live in Wales, in Penarth, less than half a mile from the proposed Severn Barrage (running from Lavernock Point, Penarth to Weston.
As an Engineer, with a specific interest in Renewable energy, I have to say I was very interested in the proposals, which were set out in detail in a 4 page spread in the Western Mail.(I am sure you can google the info).
Anyway, I can assure you that the purpose of the Severn Barrage was electricity generation, combined with a road link from Cardiff (Lavernock Point) to Weston. It was estimated that the Barrage would generate 5% of the UK energy requirements at a cost between of around 10Billion GBP. (425m in the budget will go a long way towards that - I think not!)
The proposed Severn Barrage had NO element of Flood Prevention. Indeed Cardiff already has a Barrage accoss Cardiff Bay for flood prevention and certainly doesn't need another one.
Anyway, it's a moot point because as Forfar-loon has already demonstrated in his link in #78 it was turned down earlier this month!
Complain about this comment
Scottish independence isn't about becoming more isolated. Quite the opposite if you consider that we will have direct voting rights at the EU and a seat at the UN. We are not clearly 'branded' in the world and we need this to announce to the world that we are here and open for business.
Complain about this comment
#83 Forfar-Loon
You won't get any bites from Dean, derekb, or R-E, on the 1bn GBP bonuses for Embra Tram execs.
It was after all the Tories and Labour who pushed this white elephant through (with Liberal help) against SNP wishes.
Why buy expensive German Trams, when all that was needed was a Bus lane and some new state-of-the-art "Bendy" buses made by W Alexander just down the road in Falkirk?
Complain about this comment
Tut tut Unionist Expat your bile is showing:
Most recent poll 1200 voters in Scotland taken on the two days after the budget last week showed:
Holyrood Constituency Vote
Party - Poll [2007]
SNP - 37% [+4%]
Labour - 30% [-2%]
Tory - 15% [-2%]
LibDem - 13% [-3%]
Other - 5% [3%]
Holyrood Regional Vote
Party - Poll (Change from last poll) - [Change from 2007 election]
SNP - 37% [+6%]
Labour - 28% [-1%]
Tory - 15% 1%]
LibDem - 13% [2%]
Other - 7% [-8%]
Westminster voting intentions:
SNP - 30%
Lab - 32%
Tory - 21%
LibDem - 13%
Other - 5%
* Which ONE, if any, of the following Scottish Political leaders do you think would make the best First Minister?
Alex Salmond - 36%
Annabelle Goldie - 10%
Iain Gray - 7%
Tavish Scott - 4%
Patrick Harvie - 1%
* Thinking about the performance of the UK Labour Government and the Scottish SNP Government over the past year which do you think cares MOST about the needs and interests of you and your family?
Scottish Government - 44%
UK Government - 22%
Neither - 26%
Don’t know - 7%
* It is possible that at the next British general election, neither the
Labour or Conservative Party will win an outright majority and that other parties, including the Scottish National Party, could hold the balance of power.
- Do you think this is…?
A good thing for Scotland - 41%
A bad thing for Scotland - 19%
Makes no difference either way - 28%
Don’t know - 13%
Angus McLeod over at the Times came up with the 20% overall increase in vote share for the SNP based on this survey and the poll of poll trend - he's hardly what you can call a rabid SNPite.
Calman's Commission is now nicking popular bits from the SNP National Conversation and calling it their idea (fiscal autonomy is now a good idea I see instead of being Swinney's bampot idea and planning on nuclear power should not be returned to Westminster is another floater from this £500,000 and rising piece of Unionist flim flam).
I doubt you are a reluctant Expat - you are just too small minded to be living anywhere else than John Smith House.
Complain about this comment
#97
Angus, Gwhy ay lad, no need to take a leek on the option, Taffy lad! you seem to confirm exactly what I said the re-newable and flood defence are of at this time, separately financed.I'm sure you are aware that the severn doesn't stop just in wales.
Complain about this comment
DeanTheTory:
"So you are saying that an Independent Scotland would have no borders? What- so the SNP favours a 'no border controls or immigration control' strategy? That is the real ridiculous suggestion Mr Porter, hardly my argument that an independent Scotland would have borders."
1. Have you accepted that in your earlier comment you lied and misrepresented my position by stating I support borders between England and Scotland?
This is pathetic. I am a member of the Scottish National Party. I am not a representative or spokesperson from the Scottish National Party and I am not even an official from the present SNP-led Scottish Government.
Have you lost the argument you have to start lying about anothers opinion, then twist what they say after it and make up yet another lie to go along with the first one?
And please tell me why my opinion would represent SNP policy?
I support the idea of cooperation between the Scottish and English Parliament over border controls and immigration control.
There you go, please next time ask for my opinion rather then make up another lie and twist it.
"And will my statistics change by the recession? Yes, the level of public spending on social services and benefits will rise well above the 2007 level. So this hardly supports your case that an Independent Scotland wouldnt need higher taxes does it?"
Your suggesting we use figures which are effected by the downturn as reason why we should not be independent.
Let's use the UK's books as reason why we should handover all our powers to Brussels as we are incapable otherwise.
Perhaps we will miss the rise in taxes and cuts in services that you are so keen to suggest we face in an independent Scotland?
"And care to comment on the Scottish Exectives figures on Scotlands products UK subsidy of 6.94% (2007)? Where would the money come from to replace that subsidy or would you be content to let Scottish product exports drop massively during our economic reccession and recovery?"
Perhaps Scotland could budget it, perhaps not, but I have not seen anything to suggest otherwise because I do not know the state of the economy will be like in the year 2010, or the years later after negociations have finished will be like.
It's not logical to use figures which will be damaged thanks to Brown's recession as reason why we can not be independent, and it's not right to use today's figures to base something that will happen in 4 to 5 years time.
Complain about this comment
#59 Dean
Unlike certain others, you generally do try to present valid points to back up your arguments. You have an opinion and I respect that (even though you are wrong!)
Your main problem is one you can't help - you're young!
Some of the 'older' heads here have lived through the Thatcher years and can see that much of the social evils we are experiencing now are a direct consequence her mantra 'there is no such thing as society'
We also know that most of Scotland revile the Tories, and that as long as many of us live, we will never vote Tory.
Yes the Tories will win in England at the next Westminister Election, but they won't win in Scotland. England has a different psyche to Scotland and that dichotomy will put further strains on the union after the next election.
You, innocently enough, ask why we would want Scotland to be independent, why not stay within the union?
If you have 12 minutes, go onto You Tube and watch Part 6 of BBC Alba's Diomhair - if after watching the clip, you still don't understand, then you are less of a man than we think you are.
Please watch the clip, it is a factual documentary, and once you have watched it, let us know what you think.
Complain about this comment
RE
You're well out of date. The latest YouGov Poll (last week) puts independence in the lead.
When asked if they thought that Scotland should be "a member of the European Union in its own right” 42% agreed and 40% disagreed. Its how you ask the question.
However until you support the call for a referendum all this is just puff.
Complain about this comment
Thomas you stated that you didn't believe in Scotland having borders. I find that incredible, no; it is entirely ignorant of the fundamental requirement for every nation-state to have border control, immigration systems etc
An independent Scotland would need to enforce its borders, but if you meant that Scotland didn't need borders full stop- then I agree Scotland doesn't need borders on global maps only the UK does! You have made an amazing U-turn apparently.
And sorry but when judging if Scotland ought to be independent by 2010-St. Andrews day or later by 2011 then yes it is entirely right that I make use of recession statistics. Why on earth would I use 2003 stats to judge if Scotland's public service expenditure is too high? Statistical data changes with events; it is as my greatest political hero said "events dear boy events"- got I love SuperMac.
Perhaps Scotland could budget the 6.94% subsidy? Yes, I have already said it could and now you do as well. But then this means substantial increases in taxation to fund Independence, and you refused that notion- yet now you seem to conceed it. Again another impressive U-turn in face of my statistical facts.
P.S. Scotland will suffer tax increases as part of the union, but they shall be short term and nothing like that needed to fund your independence.
I stand up for a nationalism which is all about improving our peoples lot, through higher disposable incomes and lower taxation per household, not your Scotland which is high taxes, asymmetric oil shock exposure and public spending cuts. Yes cuts in order to make such unnecessary independence actually work.
Complain about this comment
94. Neil_Small147
I agree with your sentiments. The nations welfare and health is not a business to have profit margin motivation at is heart.
The NHS was a long time in the making and must not be privatized.
I will join your call for Sturgeon to reverse this worrying development, I can't believe I missed it before now.
Complain about this comment
#105 deanthetory
I do not recognise this very exact 6.94% subsidy. Would you please direct me to your source for this statistic. Which failing, would you inform me of the similar figure current for the tradable English financial services.
Complain about this comment
I don't see Iceland for all its recent trouble rushing to relinquish its Idependence? I see them perhaps learning from this situation and moving on. I see that they have already made a start by voting in a new government at the recent General Election of last week. Independence is more than just looking for the proverbial land of milk and honey. Its about being more equipped to look after a population of 5 million and population that we would hope to grow and not go into decline.
Complain about this comment
Well Dean , you may be studying politics but you certainly ain't studying economics and taxation.
Why do you think we in Scotland would uniquely suffer from higher taxes when independent ,but enjoy the largesse of the Union (which has sadly been a tax and spend mess for quite some time but only taxing in Scotland and the North of England and spending in London and the South east)??
What makes you think that there is anything " short term " about the debt the UK is facing at the moment?
Complain about this comment
DeanTheTory:
#105.
There was a misunderstanding. I thought you were talking about borders between Scotland and England.
I have never spoke about anyhting other then a shared immigration and border controls between Scotland and England. If you want to claim victory then go ahead, but the others know where I stand because unlike you they have engaged and discussed my position aswell as theirs.
"I stand up for a nationalism which is all about improving our peoples lot, through higher disposable incomes and lower taxation per household, not your Scotland which is high taxes, asymmetric oil shock exposure and public spending cuts. Yes cuts in order to make such unnecessary independence actually work."
Ah have you suddenly became a British nationalist overnight?
How come you have suggested that Britain recent tax rises and cuts in services will be a short term measure, but when it comes to Scotland we are doomed to be apart of the Union or risk being taxed into the next life?
If we use recent figures we will see the United Kingdom in a desperate position, and like you I will use these figures to predict the future but things do not look good. 10 years of debt, and in some cases estimates have been placed to up to 20 years...
If the United Kingdom can turn things around, then why can't Scotland?
If it's acceptable for the United Kingdom to raise taxes etc for years (it is not over yet) then why can't Scotland take on the burden as a short term measure in post-independence?
The problem here is that you have a British Government borrowing to the extreme with cuts following and high taxes coming along too.
If it can turn around for them, why not us?
Complain about this comment
#108
If you generate your population, then by natural means you must also generate and grow your health, education, house, waste, water and finance.
I have to say at this stage rickyross, there are no real signs of growth in any of those areas.
Complain about this comment
Thomas your comment "It's not logical to use figures which will be damaged thanks to Brown's recession as reason why we can not be independent"
Correction: should not, not cannot. Your conjecture not mine
So your saying that the social science of economics is dependent upon political bias? The market does not favour SNP or labour, economic statistics are entirely relevant on discussing if Scotland should be independent or not; especially when the SNP want a referendum a lot quicker than three or four years ahead.
Complain about this comment
No Thomas, I am a Nationalist for Scotland.
As to my 6.94% figure: its a Scottish Executive figure you can get it at scotland.gov.uk - I would provide the exact link but sadly the beeb wont let me do so. Its very simple to find.
And Angusblogg I will have a look, but I must tell you I'm a one-nationist MacMillian & Heathite (who loves the EU!) so not quite a representative of most young Tories my age, who all invariably tend to think that Thatcher is a living deity.
Complain about this comment
Part 6 of BBC Alba's Diomhair- I cant find it on youtube, could someone provide a link to it? I'm under instruction to watch it :)
Complain about this comment
I said the increased levels of taxation are 'short term' as meaning temporary as in the long term the UK can afford to reduce such taxation as the level of debt decreases. Scotland under independence would be compelled into permanent tax increases simply to maintain current spending levels; therefore unlike a Scotland under union Scotland would in the long term suffer higher taxation for no actual spending growth in the areas that matter to me and most Scots- i.e. education, health, prisons...
Complain about this comment
DeantheTory:
#112.
It's not that I feel the need to dismiss the financial part completely, but I feel when we are discussing independence you believe we can not afford too unless we raise taxes.
However you are using figures when at a time the entire world are certainly feeling the pinuch and/or seeing higher taxes or cuts in basic services.
The world economy will start moving again, and when things are back to normal (around 2010 apprently) we will have honest figures.
But I would like to point out. This whole situation at the moment clearly shows that Scotland is not in a bubble and is directly effected apart of the Union.
Scotland will face the same issues as an independent country and I can only hope for a good government.
Complain about this comment
DeanTheTory:
"No Thomas, I am a Nationalist for Scotland."
There's no such thing. You support the Conservatives and Unionist Party...
I've not asked for evidence to support your views Dean. If I need extra information then I will ask, I will not lie or twist what you write.
Complain about this comment
Dean - it was the Tories (I voted for them when I lived in England!) who brought in market forces to the NHS. But I'm sure they can see the folly in that.
There is nothing wrong in bringing in to a public sector organisation experienced individuals from the private sector. But it should be to improve the efficiency of the operations, not set up a market.
-------------------
I see we are back at the "can we afford to go independent" argument. Personally I'm undecided at the moment, but I have some thoughts, albeit after midnight!
Both sides of the argument have to provide realistic figures.
Reliance on the price of oil is flawed, unless you go for the lowest expected price. With supplies gradually diminishing that is not unreasonable.
Confidence in politicians is rather low at present. That makes voter apathy likely, although the next general election may have a higher turnout due to current issues.
----------------------
108. At 11:46pm on 28 Apr 2009, rickyross3359 wrote:
I don't see Iceland for all its recent trouble rushing to relinquish its Idependence?
Ricky, Iceland is still in deep trouble. While a change of government was not exactly unexpected, it will not suddenly turn things around. And would Denmark accept them back into their union if they did want to relinquish independence? Iceland's troubles partly come from moving into finance away from traditional industry. Now they have to try and resolve these problems. I would not be surprised if they team up with Russia for oil exploration in the Artic.
Important lesson to note if we do go independent. There must be a contingency plan in place if something goes pear shaped. However, the current economic crisis might actually be of benefit, since it might, just might get politicians thinking about their policies and the potential risks.
Complain about this comment
#114 Dean, this may be your missing link?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOUlom4-EBw
Complain about this comment
#105 deanthetory
Sorry to butt into this juvenile dialogue, but, on the subject of international borders, brief reference to Schengen and the long-established Common Travel Area between the Irish Republic and the rest of the British Isles may be pertinent here.
Someone who is pro-EU might have been expected to understand that it is widely conceived of as an area within which freedom of movement from state to state should take place, with the external frontier of the EU serving as the point at which immigration and customs controls are operated.
Complain about this comment
DeanTheTory:
#115.
"I said the increased levels of taxation are 'short term' as meaning temporary as in the long term the UK can afford to reduce such taxation as the level of debt decreases. Scotland under independence would be compelled into permanent tax increases simply to maintain current spending levels; therefore unlike a Scotland under union Scotland would in the long term suffer higher taxation for no actual spending growth in the areas that matter to me and most Scots- i.e. education, health, prisons..."
This is where it becomes difficult. You've used figures to explain this earlier, but things willl get better and will that not eventually improve the same figures you showed me earlier?
The difference between you and I, Dean. I hope to see a Scotland that is independent, and capable of looking after herself in the most basic needs.
I am a long-term planner.
You though, you appear to see Scot's getting the best standard possible. However you see the British Government and the Union as something that can... boast the basic standards... but you appear to accept the conditions we are in.
Do you not feel that if Scotland can not stand on her own two feet then the Union has failed Scotland? How can the Union be a success when Scotland is not?
If Scotland alone can not sustain her services then what are we contribute to the United Kingdom?
Complain about this comment
#113 deanthetory
Thank you, deanthetory. I suspected that you might be misinterpreting a figure and that is the case. The figure in fact shows that Scottish products are subsidised to a lesser extent than British ones or to put it another way Scotland produces more efficiently than England.
We all make mistakes sometimes. 8-)
Complain about this comment
Lily_Hammer
1. If its too juvenile for myself and Thomas to discuss Scotland's future then that says more about you than it does myself of Thomas.
Thomas I get what you are saying, about our position in ten years time and all, but I shall consider my position then; I just am worried that we all might end up as Sir Humphrey Appleby said that "with the benefit of hindsight, our foresight lacked insight", I just want to be sure its the best thing to do for us Scots, independence I mean to you would forgive my caution on the whole constitutional debate :)
Oh and Lily: I don't need to support Shenigin in all of its details to be pro-EU membership Lily_Hammer.
Complain about this comment
derek thanks for the link.
The Lion economy? Love the imagery as well :)
But Salmond makes a number of good points about Scotland's renewable energy potential- and this could be a case for why nuclear power can be questioned (I for one don't know enough about that particular avenue of debate however).
The interview was from pre-recession and that is clear. Especially when Salmond talks of the financial sectors importance. We need to focus on economically easing the burdens to the stablisation and eventual recovery of this most important of Scottish economic sectors.
Complain about this comment
DeanTheTory:
I would be pleased to see England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland control their own spending and taxing.
Then I would prefer seeing a National Parliament which consists of each Government from each country representing their country to discuss international issues.
The Cabinet should amount to the same so there is no overpowering.
The ideal form of Government through my eyes.
Complain about this comment
#124
Wouldn't disagree with you Dean, however AS makes several references to Scotland as the land of plenty with 20% of this and 30% of that. Giving the fact that Scotland receives a budget and Mr Salmond clearly stated a period of 2 years to make Scotland the capital of re-newables and finance, is a bit thin and very short in terms of reality.
Complain about this comment
Neil _small
I did not say that Iceland is not still in deep trouble but they are still Idependent and will survive.
Complain about this comment
#126.
I'd like to point out that Energy, is a reserved power.
Alex Salmond and the Scottish Government can promote the renewable potential Scotland has, but at the end of the day there is little they can do.
Nuclear power should not be the prefered option. In this day of age where we seek to protect our energy supplies, why should we continue to use a limited supply?
Our resources should be going into finding alternatives that are ever lasting, but I would also add that I would prefer to have the lights off then press ahead with nuclear power.
There is no logic following something that will eventually take us back to stage one. Perhaps the lights turning off will eventually happen, why prolong it?
It's better to adapt now.
Complain about this comment
We must never return to the day's of the black-outs. It is not what I want for my future children.
But Thomas is right about our cultural attitude. It must adapt and change.
How many times have I seen lights burning in empty rooms? How many people ever consider; seriously actually consider; their electricity consumption?
No matter which form of energy source we focus upon exploiting to its fullest, we must also surely try and adapt our national attitude to electricity; as a hallmark of civilized society, and to be respected not a 'natural birth right' to be expected. Besides, many households could probably do with the money that would be saved!
As for Nuclear, the problem that I see is it would only ever be a short term solution surely, short term in the context of waiting until renewable technology is more sophisticated. Yet the costs of constructing a nuclear power station is very expensive, and it would be an exceptionally financially pricey fix.
What I am really interested in is coal-capture. It has become a source of major experimentation in Germany, and it would be useful for rejuvenating some life into the mining communities by reopening their source of employment of old, the mine. Coal-capture could help improve the welfare and employment opportunities of these ex-mining towns by reopening the coal mines as part of a fresh Scottish energy policy. Free from the blackouts and free from the unknown nuclear element.
Thoughts from the stump anyone? (especially about nuclear, costs, safety record- it is as I say something which to me remains an unknown element).
Complain about this comment
I don't know I enjoyed the three day week and in my first ever job we worked with calor gas lights on the desks. Also TV closing down at 9.30pm was great. Heath was good for something.
Complain about this comment
#48 Reluctant Ex Pat.
''For the countless-th time, no-one, I repeat no-one, has ever said Scotland is too poor to be independent. No-one. To suggest such a thing clearly makes no sense when there are so many poorer countries in the world. Quite how you can come to such a ridiculous interpretation is beyond all comprehension''
''The Cabinet meeting will feature a presentation on the Scottish economy by Jim Murphy who will tell colleagues how it strengthened and diversified since 1997, but the collapse of banks last year proved that Scotland could not be viable as an independent country''
I agree with you, Mr.Murphy is a 'no one'.
Wansanshoo.
Complain about this comment
#126 talking about being short on reality Derek, have you seen Alistair Darling's predictions for economic recovery, short on reality, long on fantasy. Never mind dumb and dumber (Brown and Darling) won't be in government much longer, then it'll be left to the rest of us to live through the mess this pair of chancers helped create.
Complain about this comment
Unionists just don't get it do they? Blind and narrowminded points of view. They should ask each other questions like why they are going to still vote Labour? It beggars belief, sometimes.
Complain about this comment
#115 deanthetory
"Scotland under independence would be compelled into permanent tax increases simply to maintain current spending levels"
I'm surprised to hear a Tory making this argument - especially one who is going to spend most of his working life paying off the debt that the UK has amassed.
Let me explain it a little more clearly.
As part of the UK, Scotland's public spending has increased in the same way that the UK as a whole has. Brown's profligacy since 1997 ensured that the levels of public spending were too high for the economy to support (and much of that - eg the PFI debt has never even appeared on the books). Like many people I was conned into thinking that he had been a good Chancellor, until it became clear that he had simply ridden a credit fuelled bubble.
You must compare like, not unlike, situations. The UK cannot support current levels of spending in the future. It matters not whether we are speculating about the future fiscal policies of the UK or an independent Scotland - the fiscal gap needs to be closed, and that means less public expenditure, higher taxes or both. The difference between the UK and Scotland in terms of public spending will depend on the GDP of the 2 economies.
There is simply no way at the moment to estimate the post-crunch figures accurately.
However, since the biggest hit to GDP has been in the financial sector, it's fairly easy to see which economy will suffer worst. In the UK, the financial sector produced 32% of GDP in 2006/7[Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]
"The financial services sector contributes an estimated 7% of Scotland’s GDP" (A Darling 2004)
You are arguing apples and pears. The UK is going to have difficulty buying either!
Complain about this comment
Yet another large-scale smokescreen, exagerated to take attention away from British troops exiting Iraq.
What's next?
Complain about this comment
#114, Dean:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9BgbQ8fo6A
Complain about this comment
I see Calman's trumpeting another 'idea' nicked from the National Conversation site with regards Scottish North Sea oil revenue but the nausea is in the detail - Westminster would still control output and thus the level of tax Scotland would receive. Nice try Calman but no cigar!
Dean the Tory your real worry is the evidence from last week's poll that 35% of those who currently would oppose independence would vote yes if there is a Tory government at Westminster.
Mr Hague is saying the next Westminster Government will be Tory and they expect a majority of between 60 and 80.
See how the worm turns!
Complain about this comment
#133
Voting Labour is ingrained in the Scottish Psyche, am sure they will find a gene for it someday.
We wont vote Tory after Maggies destruction of our industrial heartland,and the fact that they are still seen by many as the party of the upper classes - probably a gene for that too!
Lib/Dems shot themselves in the foot by not making any attempt to form a governmnet with the SNP so now have no credible voice in Scotland.
The SNP are starting to make people think and a lot of voters are now starting to see them as a credible alternative for the future but until we find a cure for blind labour devotion independence is unfortunatey a long way off
Complain about this comment
Skinty 138
Agreed but some people need to be a tad more mature and vote with consideration. I suppose a lot of them have a Celtic and Rangers mentality i.e i'm a catholic so i'll support Celts or i'm a prod so i'll support Gers esp. the West coast voters who have the ingrained psyche you refer too. I used to support the Labour party when I was younger as I thought they were the party of the people and represented a Scottish perspesctive and my dad voted for them, lol! How naive!
Complain about this comment
111. derekbarker wrote:
"#108
If you generate your population, then by natural means you must also generate and grow your health, education, house, waste, water and finance.
I have to say at this stage rickyross, there are no real signs of growth in any of those areas."
Some things one can grow others can be generated and others can be depleted but water is constant since this planets formation if you know different I am sure that NASA would be interested.
Complain about this comment
#138 skintybroko
"(...) until we find a cure for blind labour devotion independence is unfortunatey a long way off."
I see what you mean, of course. Your analysis appears to be sound, but, all the same, new factors may need to be taken into consideration in the present extraordinary circumstances. Correct me if I am wrong, but there is getting to be, or so it would appear, rather a lot of spluttering detestation in UK politics, and I don't only mean the well-known Scottish Labour visceral loathing of the SNP. Visceral loathing seems to be spreading, as the following little snippet may indicate:
"I hate Gordon Brown. I really really hate him. Just the thought that he is prime minister makes my skin crawl and stomach turn."
One may not wish Gordon Brown to be the UK PM, and that is not uncommon, even in Scotland, but the above little gem of southern vitriol against this distinguished Scottish gentleman speaks to me of something more. It is from a post that appeared in the NR blog before it was closed to posters, the said reviled Caledonian having moved on, with NR in tow, to Auschwitz, a destination of so many members of the reviled component of the German population that was subjected to routine scapegoating and vilification during the Great Depression of the 1930s.
Not that any component of the UK population is subjected to anything even remotely similar in the present depressed state of depression-hit Blighty, of course, faced with an apocalyptic scenario as it now arguably is. You have not felt scapegoated or pilloried lately, have you? Of course not. Or does that need to be qualified? Spluttering detestation of a conspicuous minority deemed by some to be responsible for all that is currently wrong with the UK state is hardly to be expected within the refined confines of the NR blog, needless to say, fine specimen of Blighty freedom of expression and pre-eminent forum of rational discourse that it no doubt considers itself to be with that inimitable southern British self-satisfaction with which we are so familiar. Or does that need to be qualified too?
Still, the reviled Caledonian PM of the UK or "the clown", as he was described less than respectfully by another poster before further enlightened debate was closed off in the English blog, as it is known to most of its contributors, apparently, may well be relieved to be spared further intense character assassination by Middle England in that forum for a moment or two.
The fact that contributors to the NR blog are apparently not to be trusted to comment upon a Scottish UK PM's visit to a concentration camp does rather make one wonder whether the time may be approaching for one's own skin to "crawl and stomach turn" and to wonder at the new dimension in the north-south divide that appears to have been opening up since the restoration of the Scottish Parliament, one capable of building up pressure against Scotland in such a way that the mould of Scottish politics may be shattered before the recession has completely run its course.
We shall see. In the meantime, it is gratifying to see that BT considers that the SNP government's handling of the swine-flu outbreak is "So far, so competent, so assured." Who said he is not fair-minded? Sweet reason compared to what else is out there.
Complain about this comment
#98 Bluelaw,
Ref your comment about the Scottish brand identity.
A bit off topic I know, but what is your view on the possibility of Glasgow Rangers FC & Celtic FC leaving Scottish football for the English Premier Leauge.
Complain about this comment
So, Brian, it's not a case of
"a-tishoo, a-tishoo, we all fall down" ?
Complain about this comment
The Scarfe cartoon in the Sunday Times sums up the Tories better than 1000 words - an empty shell.
FF - I hear what you are saying and proper Tories are aghast at the anti Scottish line the paper they now refer to as the 'Labourgraph' is spewing out; referring to the likes of Simon Heffer as totally, barking mad. At the 'Labourgraph' the Scots are now receiving the sort of racist treatment that was in the past reserved for Asians and West Indians by immoderate Tories.
Brownovitch in his attempt to play to 'Middle England' over the Scottish Block Grant has set the hounds of break up running. The English think they are subsidising Scotland while the Scots now know they get far less back than they put into the Exchequer, have been for over 30 years and historically have always been on the hind teat.
The irony is that it has taken the near bankruptcy of UK PLC (a sort of reverse Darien if you will) by this bunch of Labour loonies for folk both sides of the border to wake up to the iniquitous political union fostered by both main parties at Westminster. Then you wonder why people on blogs either side of the border are angry and refer to Brown as Cyclopean, oanist, waste of space.
The old adage of 'You can't fool all the people all of the time.' is coming home to roost. The result will be the break up of the Union courtesy of Mr North Briton personified.
Complain about this comment
141
Deary me Frankly, we do have an enormous chip on our shoulder don't we.
Loathing Gordon Brown, or this "distinguished Scottish gentleman" as you so ineptly put it, is a well established phenomenon North and South of the border. Your glib attempt to make this a North South issue is laughably near sighted (and ignorant, but then I won't bore you with my background as you seem frequently determined to do).
We, the British, despise Mr Brown because of his arrogance, ineptitude, disconnection from the public and refusal to allow the electorate to make a choice with regards to his place at the helm (to name but a few). Visceral loathing is, I would suggest, a rather natural reaction to such a personage, a reaction I am sure you are accustomed to yourself.
As to your assertion that the voting public are not to be trusted to make comments on NR's blog, I suppose we can expect this as a normal reaction from someone who seems to be supporting Mr Brown's right to be Prime Minister. Free speach and democracy is over rated after all.
Our dislike and contempt for Brown is entirely logical. Your defence, and cricitism of the critics, is eminently illogical and loaded with rhetoric and bile. But don't let a little thing like logic get in your way.
Cheerio, I'm off to the gym. I await with interest another obstinate and self righteous retort.
Complain about this comment
Deadgoats 142
I wish they would go as my team, Hearts could win the league and qualify for the Champs League. It would also improve our brand not to have too much of that sectarian nonsense to deal with. England will have them as soon as it's economically viable!
Complain about this comment
I noted the degeneration of this site at the weekend (both in uaeability and an increase in 'nebulous' contributions) and that it was no longer worth commenting.
However ...
Just thought you'd like to know that The Scotsman newspaper has started to systematically close the accounts and remove comments from, shall we say, the more informative and reasoned independence supporting contributors.
The comments from these contributors could hardly have been described as abusive but could definitely have been described as damaging to the Unionist arguments.
Does all of this mean anything? I don't know, but the forthcoming Euro elections may have something to do it.
Complain about this comment
#145 greatHayemaker
Thank you for admitting to being the author of the first quotation in my #141. I was going to spare your blushes, but have it your own way.
As for the rest of your #145, for which I am indebted to you, I am content to leave it alone and let it speak for itself, not least because engaging in a dialogue with me might, according to what I gather from that post "make your skin crawl and stomach turn". In support of my concerns about political discourse in England, I will in passing just point you in the direction of #144 by slaintemha, however:
"(...) proper Tories are aghast at the anti Scottish line the paper they now refer to as the 'Labourgraph' is spewing out; referring to the likes of Simon Heffer as totally, barking mad.
"At the 'Labourgraph' the Scots are now receiving the sort of racist treatment that was in the past reserved for Asians and West Indians by immoderate Tories.
"Brownovitch in his attempt to play to 'Middle England' over the Scottish Block Grant has set the hounds of break up running. The English think they are subsidising Scotland while the Scots now know they get far less back than they put into the Exchequer, have been for over 30 years and historically have always been on the hind teat."
Farewell, greatHayemaker, I am going to leave you to your visceral loathing and spluttering detestation now, as I am away to have lunch. Is that self-righteous enough for you?
Have a nice day, dear one.
Complain about this comment
#129 Dean,
A non-nuclear Tory who wants to re-open the mines and is pro-Europe. Did I also see you calling yourself a (small-n) Scottish nationalist ? I forsee a great future for you under the black and gold one you've come to your senses :)
The ranting cyber-nats have an ongoing discussion on Energy on Another Place. So On the subjects of Coal-To-Oil and Clean Coal, you may want to have a look at these pages that I dug up
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06229/714268-28.stm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/feb/05/greenwash-coal-fred-pearce
Enjoy.
Complain about this comment
In my #148 "first quotation" should read "second quotation".
Sorry about that.
Complain about this comment
Greenock Boy - I too have suffered a closure of my hootsmon account while nutters like Rufus are left to peddle their bile. They were upset about my comments as why no one reported on Peston's open threat to expose the chair of the select committee's skeletons (as recorded in the committee's minutes / Hansard) when he was called to give evidence before them.
Then again all the Scottish media are at it - the Herald is a little better; the BBC Scotland worse - Brown was pathetic in PQMs and Clegg dusted the floor with him. 'Call me Dave' was inept yet what does the BBC say....... Swine Flu - Pandemic; excuse me where is the evidence?
More old folk died this year in the UK from hypothermia because of fear of energy bills than people who have died so far in Mexico City. 100 deaths in a city with a population of 6.8 million does not a pandemic make and once a virus' has started killing the mutations from there on in tend to reduce its virulence combined with host defence response (that's why vaccination works).
Ebola was going to kill 30% of the world population at a stroke, AIDs was going to kill 30% of the world population at a stroke, Gential Herpes was going to be a pandemic that would stop all sexual activity and end the world. Mad Cow disease was going to mean an end to dentistry according to some 'virologists'. Chicken Flu was going to devastate the world of chickens and kill millions of humans along the way....
Nice try UK politicians but nope I'm not buying the smokescreen you are putting up to hide your Westminster veniality and the pretence you actually care a fig about the UK's population.
Complain about this comment
Perhaps deanthetory has an inside scoop on the latest shenanigans in the Edinburgh outpost of the Tory party: Tory leader survives coup attempt by one vote - his own. Any gossip you can share with us Dean?
An interesting piece in the Evening News about Mrs T as well: Thatcher's legacy holds Scottish Tories in an iron grip. Well worth a read, and somewhat scotches Dean's stodgy statements of a Steel-style surge...try saying that after half a shandy! ;o)
Complain about this comment
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Brian, as ever, the discussions/comments on your blog are being twisted into a bun fight between Nationalists and Unionists ..... oh well!
I think "The Sturge" did well in trying to keep the nation calm.
But I'm sure, from reading the comments on this blog, in an independant Scotland, the land of milk and honey, there will be no illnesses of this kind.
Complain about this comment
#152 forfar-loon
Try reading Dean's deathless prose after half a shandy.
Complain about this comment
**RE 80 Ciptin.
Oh me. Been where you are now, unfortunately there is no Starship enterprise. But if you would like to create that eutopia then you need to see why we really do need to be free of an english philosophy.
Hey! I'm all for Scotland ruling England so that they can benefit from our philosophy and we don't need to seperate. One soul, one world eh?
Complain about this comment
#154
What blog are you reading? Dont see anybody saying that there will be no illnesses in Scotland or are you just geing flippant?
And yes "The Sturge" as you call her has done very well and the nation is calm.
Complain about this comment
#154 derekthegrumpycleric
From reading unionist comments one would think that support for independence is a virus that would make Scotland ill if it were to spread further.
Complain about this comment
I just hope the NHS managers and the civil servants will be up to delivering the outcomes that it seems (with increasing probability) they will need to.
The logistics of the containment of virus infections and the distribution of anti-viral drugs is going to be very challenging and seriously demanding.
I did read once that London has a contingency plan to evacuate vast numbers of people out to the South Coast by train if a flu pandemic hits there. (I'm not certain that it wasn't a 'spoof' - but it was a proper newspaper article and seemed to be genuine)
I wonder if there are any such plans for Glasgow or Edinburgh or elsewhere and just where they might evacuate to. I mean should us people in the Highlands be 'putting the kettle on' to welcome large numbers of city-dwellers with a nice cup of tea?
Complain about this comment
148
Why should I blush? I voiced a particularly intense dislike I have, if you think that is blush worthy behaviour then I would suggest that there would be a great number of beetroot coloured people walking around.
But please, stick to your "nah nah nah nah, I'm not listening" style of argument, I am sure someone will find it convincing. My childrens' school might be a good place to start, they also live in a world where they believe everything they are told, and then become indignant as mules when what they are taught is later challenged.
And on the contrary, dialogue with you does not offend me in the least. It fills me with great amusement, and a wonderful feeling of superiority. Your persistence in insisting that I am anti Scottish because I dislike Brown.... well, as I said, I will not bore you or anyone else with my background. But as an argumentative tool, inventing information and then using said fiction repetetively would belong once again in my children's school. Or of course a certain ex Zanu advisor.
Complain about this comment
144
Very true for the most part, I for one gave up reading the Labourgraph long ago.
While however I would agree that the current bunch of Tories are not the answer, I think empty shell is a little harsh. I for one would feel more comfortable with Vince at the helm in these troubled times, but there are competent men amongst the opposition also. Cameron and Osbourne on the empty side, i will grant you, but Cameron is a product of the Blair government, a man who will not offend many people and hence be considered acceptable.
Unfortunately, the next election is likely to descend to "get Gordon out at any cost", with just a few of the ultra indoctrinated staying the course. And there is only way such an election can end. I will reserve passing too harsh a judgement on this particular bunch of Tories until we have seen how the cope in government. Are they ready? No. But I'll take inexperience over incompence any day.
Complain about this comment
Sorry I've no knowledge of the Edinburgh farce.
A closet SNP? Well it may be a bit like Sir Heath (magnificant gent) who in the end was viewed as a labourite by the Simon Heffer thugs in my own party. That man is not a Tory he is a pathetic attempt at Gladstonian liberalism. He must for the good of the Conservative party be sidelined with all the earnesty in our collective will (the Rousseau reference is not intentional!)
...coming off the high horse...
a deathless prose? Ha, should that be a compliment or insult? :)
Oh, and cheers for that link by the by- I'm off to watch it back asap.
Complain about this comment
I think the scariest thing about this "crisis" are some of the comments on HYS. My favorites so far are:
"I'm OK. I'm a vegetarian"
"Kill all pigs"
Complain about this comment
Having watched that ink it certainly does raise substantial questions, there can be no denying that. However I shall attempt to strive for temperance- and review what the programmes claims are:
1. There was a coordinated effort to effectively 'nick' Scotland's oil upon the event of independence.
There was clearly an active group of civil servants who were; clear from the film; involved in such a cabal. That is dispicable; however there is no clear evidence of subsequent governments, post Callagan; ever really demonstrating a similar intent against Scotland.
2. I would question whether such a conspiracy would ever really have worked, as was admitted the plots about sea border changes would never have stood up to international scrutiny, however the very idea that sych intent was being floated demands an independent investigation into the conduct of that, subsequent governments and any civil servants involved.
Such an independent investigation could clarify and solve the matter, open government.
What I shall say, is from that film- and purely that film- there was an admittedly strong case for independence 30 years ago, but what now? How much oil is left to be profitably extracted? I would need to know this to pass a judgement on the current state of possible windfall oil revenues, and as I've said previously I am always aware of asymmetric shocks that may affect our nation upon such oil-won independence.
Once these conserns, questions can all be answered or corrected then I shall pass a judgement on the matter.
Complain about this comment
163
I think the key is to avoid allowing a pig to sneeze on you.
Complain about this comment
DeanTheTory:
How'd you feel about the possible promotion of Shetland and Orkney independence from past British Governments?
This was of course to stop Scottish nationalists by suggesting we could survive from our oil industry.
Complain about this comment
Dean,
If you believe that Scotland is a nation, and it would appear you do by your "nationalist of Scotland" reference, then it is a logical and democratic extension that you should believe in Scottish Independence.
And here's why...
The things that combine to make Scotland a nation are many. History, culture, geography, language, sport, - it's a virtually endless list. However if you accept that the cumulative effect of that list defines Scotland as a nation, then you recognise that same list defines the differences between the Scottish nation and other nations. Particularly the other nations of the UK.
Once you accept those "National" differences exist, it becomes reasonable that they will result in the Scottish nation having different political views and needs than other nations within the UK.
Are the differing political requirements of Scotland best served by democracy in the form of a government elected by the Scottish people alone and acting on behalf of the Scottish nation alone, or by watered down democracy in the form of a government 90% elected by other nations and 90% acting on behalf of other nations?
Which government would be more accountabble to the Scottish nation?
Which government would be more likely to act in the interest of the Scottish nation above all other competing interests?
The Independence argument is a simple one. It comes down to whether you believe Scotland is a nation, or a region of the nation known as the UK.
Complain about this comment
I note that 7 of the people have tested negative for the swine flu, however the fact we acted swiftly to identify potential cases says a lot for the reaction times in Scotland. Prospective case have been given anti-virals, more than can be said for the poor couple in England who were told to stay at home but couldn't get the anti-virals as there wasnt enough supply in their area. I note the link to the husbands radio interview has been removed since PMQ's - cant have the UKG being shown up by the SG i suppose.
Complain about this comment
Its all so 'smoke-and mirrors', and it makes it extremely hard to judge. After all was such plans widespread or wher they developed by a small cabal that went out with Callaghan? If it was labeled top secred and burried for 30 years could it no be eqaully likely that Westminster of the 1990's had no real part in sustaining or furthering such plans to undermine Scotland's possible asperations?
But one thing is clear from all of it; and that is Shetlands and Orkney have never considered themsevles 'Scottish' to any real degree- up there they are either 'Shetlanders' or 'Orkney islanders'. So whether they would be apart of an independent Scotland or not was always surely an unknown quandry?
Complain about this comment
I do not believe that nationalism in Scotland automatically computes to a need to support independence. This is not a given to my mind, as it fails as far as I can determine, to account for what 'Scotland' one is being a nationalist for.
What I mean is that you can be a nationalist for Scotland, as part of a desire to see our distinct culture, our distinct nation self determining.
Or you can be a nationalist for Scots, where to better their lives, to basically further improve their lot one might actually support continued union. Yes, the element of political self-deterministic independence is absent, but the basic nationalism for the people; to strive to improve the lives of the people is still a form of nationalism.
After all, it comes down to a differnet notion of what it means to be nationalistic- for a political self deterministism. And cultural independence.
Or a nationalism which aims to further Scots, their financial lot, their quality of life, their disposable incomes. A nationalist for the practical side of Scotland; the people. After all as long as one Scot is alive Scotland will exist anyway, so surely any nationalism should strive chiefly for improvements for the peoples rather than having political independence as the primary goal.
Its hard to explain, but I hope that is kind of clear. (not as clear as mud hopefully).
Complain about this comment
DeanTheTory:
It is not a question of Scottishness.
I am not British, but I am apart of the British state.
However do you see Shetlands and Orkney as apart of Scotland, or not?
There's a difference between Scotland, a country in a her own right, and Shetland and Orkney which were apart of Scotland before Norway invaded, and which eventually was returned to Scotland legally in order for debts to be repaid.
Complain about this comment
DeanTheTory:
#170.
"I do not believe that nationalism in Scotland automatically computes to a need to support independence. This is not a given to my mind, as it fails as far as I can determine, to account for what 'Scotland' one is being a nationalist for.
What I mean is that you can be a nationalist for Scotland, as part of a desire to see our distinct culture, our distinct nation self determining.
Or you can be a nationalist for Scots, where to better their lives, to basically further improve their lot one might actually support continued union. Yes, the element of political self-deterministic independence is absent, but the basic nationalism for the people; to strive to improve the lives of the people is still a form of nationalism.
After all, it comes down to a differnet notion of what it means to be nationalistic- for a political self deterministism. And cultural independence.
Or a nationalism which aims to further Scots, their financial lot, their quality of life, their disposable incomes. A nationalist for the practical side of Scotland; the people. After all as long as one Scot is alive Scotland will exist anyway, so surely any nationalism should strive chiefly for improvements for the peoples rather than having political independence as the primary goal."
I disagree with you current theory concerning nationalism. It's quite possible to be pro-Scotland and yet, differ on the best way forward. For example, you support the Union, and well you have others who disagree.
In your eyes you see it as best or the above reasons, but we also believe that Scotland can be best served by the people and the people alone in order to improve everything you mentioned above.
Like I said, it's nothing to do with Nationalism, we are simply being pro-Scotland by fighting our corner, and wanting the best for the country.
Complain about this comment
164. Let me guess, Dean. Was it something related to the McCrone Report? Well, at least this nationalist grievance is from the 20th Century, eh.
As we are back on this subject yet again...Can anyone supply a link to a document that details the overall total of the annual deficits (the difference between our land-based, non-oil tax revenues and total public expenditure).
For example, in both 2005-06 and 2006-07, the deficit was around #10bn a year.
Total tax revenues from our share of North Sea oil is usually quoted as #250bn since the first drop came ashore. Can anyone provide an authentic figure here too?
By comparing both figures, we'll be able to see, once and for all, whether the rest of the UK has benefited from Scottish oil tax revenues or whether it has all been returned in successive block grants.
As this is a principal nationalist grievance with the UK, I assume such a figure will be close at hand among at least one of our fellow posters. Surely, they have something to base this grievance on other than hearsay, rumour and certain partisan websites.
How about it, peeps?!
Complain about this comment
Some nonsense here I fear. You cannot be a Scottish Nationalist while belonging to or supporting an organisation detemined to prevent Scotland having the normal attributes of a normal nation. You cannot be a unionist and a nationalist at the same time. It's a contradiction.
Deanthetory may be proud to be Scottish. That's a different thing.
Complain about this comment
Reluctant-Expat:
#173.
Question.
How can the Union be what's best for Scotland, when as you claim, Scotland has operated in a deficit for some numbers of years?
If Scotland operates in a deficit then I would suggest it's down to bad management, but I guess we're past the argument that Scotland's too poor for independence... despite the repeating nonesense of attempting to imply the same story.
Complain about this comment
Expat makes an important point in 173, Scotland may have been a state with 'embarrising' oil revenues 35 years ago. But this is not the 1970's, and already we are seeing profitably extracable oil showing signs of flat lining, or declining depending upon the expert opinion in question.
The debate must move on from what might have been; which is all smoke and mirrors'; onto what is best for the future. Ex-pat asks for fiscal answers, and I believe when answered they shall show an unsustainably high level of Scottish expenditure vis-a-vis actual revenuew raised purely in Scotland.
This is why I have consistantly argued tht general taxation would have to be increased substantially to meet the financial stability which would sustain an independent Scotland.
I dont know about you but I don't want to live in a Scanophile nation-state with taxation which rather than pulls the poorest up, pulls the wealthy down.
Complain about this comment
#173
Wasn't this thread supposed to be about swine flu?
Or does the advancement of unionist negativity at all costs transcend the point of staying on topic??
Complain about this comment
You all may be right, but I would rather merely 'fight my corner' within the Union if this makes mmy fellow Scots lives better, safer and easier.
I care about people more than borders and line on maps.
Complain about this comment
#173 RE:
Why should we believe anything you write? You made a false statement in your #32. I gave you the benefit of the doubt in my reply (#42) and invited you to clarify, but rather than admit your error you then tried to fob us off by embroidering the lie in your #50. Unfortunately I simply don't believe anything you say.
Complain about this comment
Dean do not start the ridiculous borders, lines and maps nonense like yesterday.
I do not support borders between Scotland or England, and so far it appears Westminister has start scaremongering by suggesting Scotland would have an open door immigration policy.
However please do not show disrespect to others by claiming you know best, and that by remaining apart of the Union we all are going to live better lives, safer and easier.
Just because someone shares a different opinion which in this case is independence, does not suggest that we do not care for the people. I support independence and I suspect many others agree because we see it as the best way forward.
However you have brought me back to my original point that you never answerd the other day.
If Scotland can not sustain her own level of services then what do we contribute to the United Kingdom, and why is receiving a clear subsidy the best way forward?
You've not mentioned subsidy, but that's what it's called when resources from other sources are propping up another source. In this case the British taxpayer is propping up Scotland.
Complain about this comment
Still no answer to my #173 then. Just lots of attempted diversions. Interesting!
177. Dougie-Dubh, what was your previous post about? And what was that day's thread discussing?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/profile/?userid=11664948
Glass houses?
Complain about this comment
Thomas you are making exactly the same mistake you made yesterday.
I am not talking of borders between Scotland and England and if it will ruin familes etc. That is all nonsense as you say.
I was referencing a more simple idea, that you want to see borders as in the borders of an independent Scotland on the maps of the world, and I don't I want to see UK borders.
Please, you may be obsessed about Scotland and England etc, I am merely interested in focusing upon what really matters for people, improvements on the quality of their lives during recession; not constitutional obsession as you prioritise.
Complain about this comment
#14 dear_wendy
Pigs do get swine flu. It usually manifests as a respiratory infection. Typically pigs contract flu sub-types H1N1, H1N2, H2N3, H3N1 and H3N2.
Normally the only humans at risk would be those, say, in the pig farming industry and that risk would be very low. What is new is for this strain H1N1 to be passed on by human to human transmission.
The threat now comes from a variant of H1N1 that basically is a mix of pig, human and avian types.
Complain about this comment
DeanTheTory:
"I was referencing a more simple idea, that you want to see borders as in the borders of an independent Scotland on the maps of the world, and I don't I want to see UK borders."
If seeing the borders of independent Scotland were all I cared to see, then your position would be as ridiculous as the claim you are suggesting in reference to the independence supporters. If you want to see UK borders... is that all that matters?
Of course not, and I know that so please show me the same amount of respect and do not even make remarks like that when we both believe our way is the better way for improving Scotland.
"Please, you may be obsessed about Scotland and England etc, I am merely interested in focusing upon what really matters for people, improvements on the quality of their lives during recession; not constitutional obsession as you prioritise."
I have not prioritised constitutional issues over the recession. I have simply defended Scotland against comments that suggest we would be unable to sustain services, rescue the banks and other situations as an independent nation.
It's unfair, the problems are happening as we are apart of Great Britain!
But if you do not seek confrontation over our constituation then why bring it up, or even respond to posters who promote independence?
You should at least be protecting Scotland against posters who do use the recession as reason we can not manage as an independent country. If you love Scotland, and her people then do not allow others to talk our country down. It's fine to accept the problems we do create, but to dump everything on us when the *** hits the fan is not what we should be seeing at the moment.
I do not wish to see a responce, we'll leave it for another day, back to topic instead?
The outbreak is terrible, but I guess we work best under pressure and Scotland has a great opportunity here. As one of the first to discover the matter we have the chance to find out alot of useful information before the others.
It's also a time where cooperation between the north and south is essential in order to stop the spread, and if we are in real trouble close down the borders.
Complain about this comment
I think the word we are looking for here is Patriot.
You can be a patriot regardless of your views on independence, although there are a couple of individuals who refer to some people as traitors if they do not support independence.
Superb news from Westminster. The Government has been defeated on their inexcuseable treatment of the Ghurkas.
About time too.
Complain about this comment
Hav they actually lost the bill vote in parliament?
That really is great news.
Thomas, 'I am merely defending Scotland' - oh please, melodramatic sentiment worthy of Wallace himself!
Complain about this comment
#185 Neil_Small147:
You're right, patriot is a better word for the above discussion.
Also agree with you 100% about the Gurkha vote. The LibDems' list of Labour's 28 rebels is on this website's Gurkha vote: Labour rebels. 28 out of 350 isn't great. From a quick look through the list of rebels (so please do correct me if I missed some) it's interesting to note that not a single Labour MP from Scotland voted against the government. Lobby fodder, every last one of them.
Complain about this comment
DeanTheTory:
The vote which happened today is useless. Politically it's embarressing for Gordon Brown and the Government, however it's not legally binding and so nothing has changed yet.
Oh Dean, I do apologise, how does sticking up for Scotland sound rather then defending?
Complain about this comment
forfar-loon what is more interesting is the sheer vast number of labour MPs who would rather sit on their hands and abstain and watch their PM go down, loosing the first oppositin day debate motion in 30 years! Now we really do have a direct Brown-Callaghan link!
What I'm interested in is did any Scot Labour MP abstain if not vote against?
Complain about this comment
Thoma you are correct, in strict terms this doesnt oblige the govrnment to follow. However, in practical terms Brown will be compelled to alter its stance in order to solve the problem and end a major humiliation. What this can tell us all is when away from the economy, Brown again demonstrates poor judgement, one thing is for sure, Blair would never have got himself into this mess, he knew the mood on the street all too well.
But imagine, what if the government is also defeated on Thursday's vote- on expenses, that is effectively a parliamentary vote of no confidence; which would seriously weaken the little authority Browns cabinet government has left. Harman, the hard left TUC around Cruddas will all suddenly be more powerful over a lame-duck government (or at least percieved to be lame-duck government in public opinion).
Complain about this comment
#179 Dear forfar-loon, The Reluctant Ex Pat has a long track record of basing his opinions on statistics, statistics and damned lies selectively chosen from who knows where and expecting anyone unfortunate enough to read it too be amazed by his supposed great insight into world economics. Personally I gave up reading Ex Pat's (if his name isn't Pat what is it now I wonder) postings months ago, his credibility is less than minimal, but hey don't take my word for it, read as many of his postings as you like....eventually you'll catch on to him.
Complain about this comment
The vote today is significant. I think what some people forget is that Gordon Brown did not come up with the idea of his bill, rather some unknown civil servant at the MoD or Treasury.
He MUST change his original bill, and he knows it. To drive through regardless, much as Blair did, would be political suicide now.
---------------
168. At 4:36pm on 29 Apr 2009, skintybroko wrote:
I note that 7 of the people have tested negative for the swine flu, however the fact we acted swiftly to identify potential cases says a lot for the reaction times in Scotland. Prospective case have been given anti-virals, more than can be said for the poor couple in England who were told to stay at home but couldn't get the anti-virals as there wasnt enough supply in their area. I note the link to the husbands radio interview has been removed since PMQ's - cant have the UKG being shown up by the SG i suppose.
Are you a qualified doctor? You have no knowledge of either case. The treatments have nothing to do with being in Scotland or England. The young couple in Scotland may have been more badly affected. Don't bring borders or press conspiracies into this please. There's enough nonsense flying about as it is. Maybe there are not enough anti-virals, but does Scotland have a sufficient supply?
Although I had to laugh, some MSP (I think) came out with the comment that Scotland can lead the way in dealing with the outbreak. A wee bit of common sense here. We do have some superb scientists and doctors, but the main pandemic research is carried out by individuals from all over the world.
Complain about this comment
#164 Dean
Well done you for watching part 6 of Diomhair - now you need to watch parts 1-5 also on You Tube, to be able to put Part 6 into perspective.
I can answer your concerns/questions and will do so , attaching links were appropriate. I wont however answer all your points in one post, I will concentrate on one topic at a time.
Firstly - your question 2
"I would question whether such a conspiracy would ever really have worked, as was admitted the plots about Sea Border changes would never have stood up to international scrutiny....."
You are obviously not aware that on 13th April,1999 the Westminster Government passed "The Scottish Adjacent Water Boundaries Order 1999" which changed the Sea boundaries from due East of Berwick, to a line North East from Berwick to 6 miles off Carnoustie.
see [Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator] (the Official Order)
http://www.oilofscotland.org (for a map and some 'patriotic' comment)
[Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]
Watch, read, and learn!
Complain about this comment
Early Day Motion I wonder if they'll get to see the books if it gets past.
I see over 30,000 have now signed the DS petition, won't be long before the men in white coats are given the nod.
Complain about this comment
Dean,
You mention a type of nationalism that wants what is best for the scottish people, in a completely pragmatic sense.
Does allowing them to democratically elect a government that represents their political makeup, however that may change over time, not constitute the fundamental aspect of what is best for the scottish people?
Are you seriously arguing that forcing them to elect a government in which they have around 8% influence is what is best for the scottish people?
When Bush and Blair / Brown seek to give democracy to the Iraquis or the Afghans - what is the one thing they (claim to) seek to deliver to the people of these countries.
Democracy. The right to vote for the government that reflects the wishes of the people. That is their (claimed) fundamental goal.
They don't look to annexe these countries claiming (perhaps correctly) that such action would, initially at least, provide a better standard of living to those people. No. They seek to give democracy to those people. That is the fundamental. The rest of all the pragmatic things of which you talk will follow if you believe in democracy. The people will vote for the government most appropriate to their needs.
So - Scotland is a nation that you would appear to deny true democracy.
In preference you would seem to prefer, big brother knows best, we'll look after you better than you could yourselves.
I'm paraphrasing obviously. But you must see the double standard here?
You talk a lot of sense at times Dean. I think you will see the light in time.
Complain about this comment
#164 Dean
My reply to your questions has unaccountably been moderated for some reason. I will therefore re-post in chucks to see which bit fell foul.
Part 1
Well done Dean for watching BBC Alba Diomhair Part 6 - now you should watch parts 1 -5 to put Part 6 in perspective.
I can answer your questions/concerns and will do, including the necessary links (if allowed). I wont however answer all you concerns in one post - merely concentrate on one topic at a time.
.........
Complain about this comment
#164 Dean Contd/...
Part 2
Firstly to answer your question 2.
"I would question whether such a conspiracy would ever really have worked, as was admitted, the plots about Sea Border changes would never have stood up to international scrutiny......"
...........
Complain about this comment
#164 Dean contd/....
Part 3
Anyway, in answer to your question 2 about Sea Borders,you have obviously completely missed that on April 13th 1999, the Westminster Government passed "The Scottish Adjacent Waters Boundaries Order 1999" which, yes you've guessed it......
Complain about this comment
#164 Dean Contd....
Part 4
"The Scottish Adjacent Waters Boundary Order 1999" passed in Westminster, changed the Scottish Sea Boundaries from Due East of Berwick, to North East from Berwick to 6 miles off Carnoustie.
The necessary links are......
Complain about this comment
#164 Dean Contd......
Link 1 - Statutory Instrument 1999 No1126
[Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]
....................
Complain about this comment
# 164 Dean Contd
Link 2
Oil of Scotland website with new boundary map and 'patriotic' comment.
www.oilofscotland.org
....................
Complain about this comment
#164 Dean Contd....
Link 3 (of 3)
Recent Timesonline comment.
www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/scotland/article5728477.ece
Complain about this comment
#164 Dean Contd
That's all Dean, hope you enjoy the rest of Diomhair.
Look forward to your comments
Complain about this comment
Hey up! Angus, is this some kind of constitution you are out laying here?
I think your totally convinced by this TV programme and swallowed every snippet hook,line and sinker.
Complain about this comment
In Brownedov's absence I don't think anyone has mentioned the ComRes poll in yesterday's Independent: Tories increase lead to 19 per cent as Labour suffer in wake of Budget.
Behind that headline there's a worrying sign for the Tories though:
The Conservatives have the right ideas about how to get Britain out of recession
-Agree 38% (up from 35% in February)
-Disagree 49% (up from 25% in February)
Rather suggests that they are benefitting from anti-Labour sentiment as opposed to pro-Tory sentiment.
Full details available here.
Complain about this comment
#204 hey ho...it makes a change from the lies and deceit Labour have been feeding the Scottish electorate the past 50 years eh Derek or are you still wriggling on the hook for that one.
Complain about this comment
#dean for info:
Labour goes nuclear but row erupts over who will foot bill
Sellafield: the most hazardous place in Europe
"Yet B30 has a powerful claim to fame, albeit a disturbing one. "It is the most hazardous industrial building in western Europe," according to George Beveridge, Sellafield's deputy managing director."
Anyone wanting nuclear power should be obliged to live in there proximity then they might investigate this power source and all of its toxic and financial hidden secrets.
Complain about this comment
#206 InMyKip,
forfar-loon makes a good point about the reality of this recession and how only Obama and Brown have shown real clarity on the world stage.
InMykip, it's healthy for governments not to win on every issue, it is helpful and healthy when MP's vote with their conscience and not the party whip.
Complain about this comment
The ComRes poll (done April 24th-26th) gives a Scotland breakdown, we're not just lumped in with the "North" as some pollsters insist! I'm no expert on deciphering these things, and the usual caveats apply as the number of respondents in Scotland is small, but from what I can tell the following interesting results come out:
Voting intention:
SNP 34%
Labour 27%
Conservative 20%
LibDem 12%
Green 1%
BNP 1%
Other 6%
I trust Gordon Brown more than David Cameron to lead Britain out of recession:
-Agree 42%
-Disagree 47%
-Don't know 11%
The Conservatives have the right ideas about how to get Britain out of recession:
-Agree 27%
-Disagree 61%
-Don't know 12%
The shortfall in public finances should be met by cuts in public spending instead of tax rises:
-Agree 48%
-Disagree 42%
-Don't know 9%
David Cameron should be clearer about what he would do about the economy if he were Prime Minister:
-Agree 82%
-Disagree 13%
-Don't know 5%
Complain about this comment
Angusblogg: FINISHED part one. Thoughts..
On part One exclusively:
The first part mentions that M15/6 were tipped off about a possible attempt at blowing up the stone whic anglo-saxon kings had been crowned. The programme immediately sets out the idea that it was an over-reaction (judging from the tone, presenter, context)
However in Christmas Eve 1950 four members of the Covenant Associatiob stole the Stone of Destiny from Westminster Abbey. Their names where:
Ian Hamilton
Kay Matheson
Gavin Vernon
Alan Stuart
On this basis was M16/5 really over reacting by monitoring the activities of this early nationalist movement, when they had already clearly violated the law of the land in a serious manner?
Anf given that all four named above where members of the covenant which arranged the petition, it does seriousl undermine the programmes claim that the Covenant was a political but non-partisan movement, when considering the criminal acts by their rank and file members.
Suddenly those secret motives of the British intellegence services have a more reasonable motive for such monitoring actions. Oh, but wait the programme in part One does say explain that the secret services encouraged Scottish Nationalists to break the law- oh well that explains it eh? Hardly, as in part one absolutely no evidence is presented to support the claim made by the presenter that such nationalists as thoe named above where encouraged at all. We are merely to take his word for it.
I shall continue watching the next part to see if any of thse apparent contradictions and apparent weaknesses are explained in the following parts.
Complain about this comment
#208 derekbarker: I think you've confused me with someone else Derek. The only clarity Brown shows on any stage is how he's clearly not up to the job.
It's also interesting that you find it helpful and healthy when "MP's vote with their conscience and not the party whip". I quite agree. You must be disappointed then that no Labour MPs in Scotland supported the Gurkhas' cause.
Complain about this comment
The government defeat this evening was good news, I am surprised that All Scottish Labour MP's voted with the goverment. I suppose they must feel that next years General election doesn't much matter to them. They have all been vacinated against the Tory bug biting Middle England.
Complain about this comment
#211 maybe those particular Labour MP's don't have one, or the party line is more attractive to them.
Complain about this comment
#211 forfar-loon
I think the Gurkhas cause was a difficult one, you see neither Cameron nor Clegg gave any "clarity on numbers" i.e. how many Gurkhas they wanted to give residence to, while Brown clearly stated that he would be giving residence to some 10,000 Gurkhas plus their families at a cost of 1.4Bn.
The strange thing is. It was the labour party that first lite this fuse to allow residence to the Gurkhas and sort of left the process in the grass without progressing it.
I make this next point purely by hearsay, some economist say that it's pointless to expand of Britain's population at this time in history, giving the weak financial situation Britain is in.The economist say Britain simply cant afford to give any new incomers a good settlement in settling into Britain.
Complain about this comment
#209, thanks for the info loon. I had a quick glance at the details there and the numbers we are dealing are tiny as per usual.
Still, encouraging stuff - if this long before the election the standings are somewhere in that region, it is clear where the ABL (AnyoneButLabour) votes will be going.
Complain about this comment
Angusblogg: watched part two...
thoughts on part two...
To be fair the second part does grapple with the theft of the Stone of Scone. However it seems to attempt to justify the criminal action.
Indeed part two begins to deal with the criminal action with the line "But on Christmas Day 1950 four young activists pulled off an extraordinary coup". Since when did theft become legitimate political activism? And since when did crimal acts, in breach of the laws of the land become a legitimate publicity 'coup'?
Indeed the programmes doctor, the resident expert made reference to throughout apparently explains away such conserns with the line "i think many of us young people thought it was a great thing, a bit of fun"- oh, really? Well then lets go back to Egypt and steal their ancient artifacts, you know the ones we had to give bac, because wouldnt it just be a great bit of "fun"? Dangerous sentiment quite frankly.
And another observation, every single English speaking person is charactured as having a Boris Johnston voice, despite many of the English speaking voices in part one and two are regional, with the eception possibly of the civil servants naturally.
But I will proceed onto part three, but this is really pushing the limits of being credible. Oh and still no explanation to any observations from my thoughts on part one, apparently those truths are simply ignored. Ack well.
Complain about this comment
Part three: thoughts...
thoughts on part three...observations Angusblogg
It claims at this point that Queen Elizabeth II's coronation was controversial. Because it a) didnt feature the Scottish crown or sceptre
b) because there was not a seperate coronation in Scotland with the Scottish crown and sword.
But why is this controverial at all? What it does show is an ignorance of coronation law. I shall explain what I mean:
It indicates that the absense of the Scots crown and sword at the coronation in Westminster was a slight at Scotland and her constitutional position. Wel, no it doesnt actually; because at the coronation at Westminster HRH was crowned with the Imperial Crown, which is not an English piece of royal regalia, but UK regalia. And besides the monarch is not crowned in seperate English and Scottish ceremonies as this implies the crowns are seperate- well no they are not, they were merged into the single crown for the single United Kingdom. So naturally the Scottish Crown would not have been used, nor would the English-old crowns pre-union of the crowns as that would imply differnet kingdoms and they are not, legally they are one, single United Kingdom.
So the reason for no Scottish crown, was the same reason they didnt use a pre-union of the crowns English crown, because the throne was not seperate anymore, it was a single British UK crown. Any use of English or Scottish crowns would have forces seperate coronation ceremonies and that is legally impossible as there is no English crown and Scottish Crown anymore- only a single United Kingdom Crown.
The program has clearly no grasp of constitutional and royal laws. It therefore assumes that the absence of the Scots crown was a dig at Scotland and it obviously wasnt if you are at all familiar with constitutional law; which this program apparently isnt- which is why it casts about misinformation about motives and reasons for this or that.
I have lost all faith in this program as having any reason or basis to it at all, I am not preparted to watch through anymore of it upon light of these obvious and clear questions and knowledge gaps in the program.
It is hardly a compelling case for a secret unionist conspiracy at all, it peddles misinformation based on a fundamental misunderstanding of statute and constituional law. And besides as previously highlighted it apologises for criminal actions with the offensive line "it was fun".
I canno believe that you Angusblog- you- actually believe any of this program given the clear discrepencies I have identified in part 1-3 alone.
Complain about this comment
#213 InMyKip: Indeed. Nadine Dorries of smeargate fame blogs about the behaviour of the Labour whips in parliament today. Quite an interesting read.
#215 patty: you're welcome. Someone has to mind the shop if Brownedov and oldnat are out gallivanting ;o)
#214 derekbarker:
I agree that the extra expense comes at a difficult time for the economy (and whose fault was that again?!). Someone on a different blog (or was it a newspaper site?) cheekily remarked that Brown would have found the money if it had been the Gurkha Bank requiring it!
The fact remains that we could easily free up enough money to do the right thing by the Gurkhas simply by scrapping the ID card scheme (or Trident). Even Blunkett is against it now, even though he first introduced the idea!
And whilst you're correct to say that Labour started the process of improving the Gurkhas' lot, they weren't leaving the process "in the grass without progressing it". They were just going to progress it in the wrong direction, even with the benefit of Gordon's moral compass to navigate the way. Hence the campaign and successful vote today.
Indeed it seems a bit like a microcosm of the New Labour project...good intentions to start with, but something went very badly wrong along the way, leading us into Iraq, Afghanistan, increasingly authoritarian legislation,...
Anyway, I have an early start and a busy day tomorrow and am surprised to see it's already midnight, so I'll have to leave it there.
Complain about this comment
#218 forfar-loon
I think the underlying worry is the precedence has been set and all lawyers like a case history with a set precedence.
Many young people gave their lifes for the British empire through-out the great war and WW11, surviving members of those brave people may just
push for the right of residence-ship also, giving the fact that they also gave their all in defence for Britain.
Complain about this comment
This comment has been referred to the moderators. Explain.
Just a point on the 'Stone of Destiny', which is just one of its names, whose stone is it and who first stole it? I believe it was first stolen by Edward I. I suppose a country that invades another country and steals whatever it wants, or, in the case of the 'Elgin Marbles' just wanders into a country and steals it, then the country that stole those artifacts etc. have the right to claim them as their own. Isn't that called plunder? So, it is a mute point whether those people mentioned by Dean were actually breaking any laws because it can be construed that they were just retrieving the stone from someone who stole it off them in the first place.
Complain about this comment
Glad to see that Brian's picture has made an appearance again.
Complain about this comment
gedguy2
You think it is ok to go around stealing things do you? OK, but I didnt take you for an anarchist.
Grow the hell up, 'we stole it back from them, who had stolen it from us'...if Scotland became independent it would have been given back to Scotland. But until that day the stone was not in a seperate country that stole it from 'us' as you seem to think, as until Scotland becomes independent IT IS ALL ONE COUNTRY.
Complain about this comment
Complain about this comment
Going by your thinking that 'until Scotland becomes independent IT IS ALL ONE COUNTRY', how do you think it managed to get to England before our King(James VI)became the English king too? Did it just roll down there? Another thing, when has England ever returned anything that it has plundered? What evidence have you got that the stone would have been returned if Scotland gets it's independence or is this just an assumption that you have made?
I think I remember, in one of your postings, about being civil to one another when replying to a posting. Maybe I got that wrong. Maybe I was thinking of another decent tory on here. Obviously it can't be you because you're not being civil to someone who has a different perspective from you on the case of the 'Stone of Destiny'. Shame that, because some of your postings were well thought out, but in my opinion wrong. This is twice that you have referred to my age. When you get to my age I'm sure that you will have the right to bandy about such lurid statements. But I don't think I'm ever going to live long enough for that to happen. ;)
Complain about this comment
#224 wanashoo
God, informative post. Great detail, well thought out argument.
Looks very similar to the Chancellor's decisive plans on sorting out the economy!!
:p
Complain about this comment
The WHO (World Health Organisation) are reported to be closing in on the carrier responsible for initiating the swine flu outbreak. The organisation is looking for an individual who has recently travelled to the affected areas of South America, North America, Europe, England and Scotland. The Indian sub continent has thus far shown no signs of the disease and it is thought that the individual may have visited but was kept at arms length.
The WHO have issued a statement suggesting only an individual of ‘Global’ standing could be responsible for such a ‘Global’ pandemic.
Given the recent scare over Bird Flu, some experts believe that the introduction of Swine Flu might have led to flying pigs. The WHO are therefore looking for an individual who may be hoping for such a scenario.
Complain about this comment
#192
Health is a devolved issue and treatments vary considerbly between regions, even in Scotland, as does drug availability often referred to as a post code lottery.
And dont belittle the Scottish effort, we have a worldwide reputation of excellence in medical research.
Complain about this comment
#115 deanthetory
Yesterday I commented on your economic arguments, but I included a link the mods didn't like and it took them ages to remove it.
It's finally through as my #134
Complain about this comment
FTR The Stone of Destiny is only on 'loan' to Scotland. And other Scottish artefacts, such as the Book of Deer and the Lewis Chessmen are held by English institutions who refuse despite protests to return them to Scotland.
Complain about this comment
Back on the Gurkhas, an interesting comment was made by someone (I forget) in the Scotsman this morning that the numbers involved, even in a "worst case" scenario, are but a drop in the ocean against the numbers of EC nationals entitled to settle here; including in theory one or two who may once have fought against us.
Complain about this comment
greenock boy#227
an excellent post. more than surprised that the usual suspects haven't complained . maybe "they just don't get it!"
Complain about this comment
If you want a vision of Britain's future,
go to Ayr for the day
Meanwhile
How bad could this get?
Complain about this comment
The Times viewer survey has 89.5% wanting Brown to fall on his sword.
With a large number of petitioners for him to go on his Downing Street web site - you would think he might take the hint.
He is a one man swine flu pandemic - except that would be an oxymoron.
Complain about this comment
#223 deanthetory
Scotland and England are constituent countries of the political state known as the UK.
That is the official definition.
They never have been "all one country" - and never will be!!
Complain about this comment
It's quite a relief that the first UK cases of Mexican "put you in bed for a week" disease were identified in Falkirk..at least as far as this blog is concerned (glad they've recovered but it looks like they may have caught it at the same time as a few others elsewhere in the land). Had the first cases been discovered in England, these pages would be awash with the usual suspects banging the drum about BSE, Foot & Mouth, how England's ramshackle health service and disease prevention had allowed this terrifying disease loose in the land to threaten the pure-bred folk of Alba etc etc. Mind you don't give it long before there are snide comparisons about the vigilant sober health professionals of Falkirk snuffing out the infection whilst the lazy incompetents of the NHS let the virus slip through their fingers.
These folk can never resist trying to get "an angle" on just about anything to peddle their distortions. It reminds me of the true and, funny given the historical distance, story of the effects of the Black Death in the 14th Century. The disease arrived, I think in Lyme Regis but rapidly spread throughout the "South of Britain" and was responsible for the death of anywhere between a quarter and a third of the population. The king of Scotland, sensing the distress and enfeeblement South of the Border raised an army and duly invaded (aggressors??? shock, horror). The Scottish army were buoyed up by the belief that as vital Sons of Caledonia and true Christian believers, that they would not be affected by this new and bewildering disease that was devastating the feeble, unclean English. Guess what happened?
Of course you don't get folk thinking that way these days do you?
Complain about this comment
#236 nice try at provocation Anglophone, ever predicting the future in a kind of generalised negative way, which makes you just as bad as those you hope to provoke, it kindof shows you in a whole new light.....and not a very good one.
Complain about this comment
#236 Anglophone
If I remember rightly, was it not Melcombe in Dorset that was first infected?
Complain about this comment
#237 InMyKip
I find the tactics of many UK Unionists remarkably similar with regard to both the EU Union, and dissolving the current UK Union - both political changes which upset the status quo. There are of course honourable exceptions to this.
They seem remarkably reluctant to argue positives for the current (or former) structures, but rely on negative sniping, and selective data, about Scotland and/or the EU.
I could make a better case for a separatist UK than they even attempt (though I won't!). It seems strange this reluctance to argue a positive case.
Complain about this comment
Why do life's anglocentrics have such huge chips on their shoulders??
#239 Oldnat
Perhaps even they recognise, as most of us do, that the UK is an ever-increasing anachronism, and that any case made for it - however fanciful - would be a necessarily feeble one?
#236 Anglophone
Come the day and age when it is remotely permissible for any Scottish "historian" to appear on UK-wide television and bigotedly dismiss the entire nation of England, entirely without sanction or accountability - then your own facetious comments might contain a shred of credibility.
In the circumstances, you might refrain from trying to misrepresent the positive support for Scottish independence as some form of oppression of the English.
Complain about this comment
238 Oldnat
You might well be right. I do recall reading that the ship carrying the infection from the Continent docked at Lyme Regis which is after all also in Dorset. We could both be right...which would be nice
240 Dougie Dubh
Cool yer jets mon. I'm not sure what you're refering to but it's certainly got you going. It does cut both ways though. Everytime I've been into a bookshop in Scotland the history section is positively overflowing with the "Spattered Blood of our Slaughtered Sons" type of work. Who knows, maybe a prerequisite of doing a historical piece on TV is that it has to be reasonably well researched and balanced...something that is not always the case in print.
I don't regard the movement for Scottish Independence as an "oppression of the English"...you're just projecting that for your own purposes. I do however regard Scottish Independence, as it's currently expressed as an oppression of ordinary Scots who run the risk of being sold down the river on a series of promises that vary from the questionable, through the romantic down to the downright partisan and mildly racist. The question your ilk can never answer when posing the frankly tired "what is the Union Dividend?" argument is, in what way will things be different for ordinary people, not the mini-army of new civil servants and politicos, but the real people. Answers on a postcard and you may have some chance with your referendum.
Complain about this comment
#236, #241 still 'phishing' for arguments Anglophone, my my it's not like folk like you to think that way these days is it?
If anyone is 'oppressed' in the UK right now I'd say it's the English people, their saddled with a parliament that fiddles it's expenses while the country goes to wrack and ruin, their personal liberties slowly being eroded, being turned into a police state, pushed into illegal wars, their economy crippled etc etc etc this isn't a criticism of England but an observation of what is currently happening. I truely feel sorry for the English electorate because their options with Westminster are few and far between.
As for the Scottish electorate I think we are much wiser than you give us credit for, greater self confidence from running our own affairs is leading to us wanting to run more of our own affairs and thereby even greater confidence, while your opinions/predictions on the future rights , wrongs or maybe's of Scottish independence remain no more than your opinions because even you don't have the ability to forsee the future.
Complain about this comment
#241 Anglophone
So the lurid nonsense in your previous post was a reasoned, positive arguement in favour of the union, was it? As opposed to yet another twisted unionist attempt to demonise any evidence of Scottish resilience as being indicative of some deeply inherent psychosis?
As Oldnat rightly concludes, unionism is intellectually bankrupt when it comes to promoting itself in any positive way, hence the desperation and scaremongering that has become its hallmark in modern times.
Unionist negativity, indeed, has been dealt a major body blow by the assured way the Scottish Government has handled and responded to not only swine flu, but every formidable national and international crisis that has arisen over the past two years.
The ugly face of British, or rather English, nationalism, meanwhile, which has no democratic form or moral basis, continues to represent itself through a dominant anglocentric media, and the poisoned utterences of the likes of Starkey, Kelvin McKenzie, and others, who seem free to hijack the airwaves at will to vent their self-serving and corrosive bile.
Such individuals are unfit to be mentioned even in the same breath as those who are working to promote self-belief in our country and our future.
Complain about this comment
I agree that Nicola Sturgeon has handled the swine flu issue well but there is a possibility that the current policy is completely wrong. In its current form Swine Flu - H1N1 seems to be relatively mild but experts say it could mutate into a more virulent form in the future. Under these circumstances It could actually better to let it take its course as opposed to the current policy of containment as anyone who catches it in its mild form should become immune to future more virulent strains.
Complain about this comment
#244
To pick up your point, with the fundamental uncertainties, not least of which is how, if at all, the virus might escalate, at the core of the battle against any such outbreak - the containment and control (as far as practicable) of the disease is surely paramount.
The only certainty, if any, must be that to shift between policy extremes on the basis of second-guessing the natural course of a deadly virus would be a recipe for unbridled chaos.
Complain about this comment
View these comments in RSS