On Budget
Households across the UK will be eagerly scanning the content of the Chancellor's Budget on Wednesday.
What does it mean for us: on tax, on duty, on services, on jobs?
There is an Edinburgh house where the detail will be particularly thoroughly scrutinised. St Andrew's House.
Already, the First Minister Alex Salmond is mounting a robust and sustained attack on consequential cuts in Scottish spending which, he warns, will cause significant problems from next year.
Mr Salmond is making that case again to the Scottish TUC - along with outlining further new thinking in respect of measures to tackle the recession.
Expect that campaign to grow in volume, intensity and frequency should there be further requirements for spending constraint as a consequence of the Budget.
Nomenclature matters. Will the Chancellor announce "cuts"? Or "efficiency savings"? Or "lower growth in future spending plans"?
If an individual Whitehall department - say, Transport - goes for efficiency savings, then any cash recouped can be ploughed back into frontline services. And there is no knock-on impact upon comparable Scottish budgets.
However, if the Chancellor orders a reduction in their headline budget then, via the Barnett formula, that will have direct consequences for Scotland.
The Chancellor may say that they should find the money via enhancing efficiency. That would not alter the nature of the exercise.
Barnett works downwards as well as upwards. Scotland gets a proportionate share of any increase in budget for comparable Whitehall spending departments.
Similarly, Scotland takes a proportionate hit if Whitehall budgets are reduced.
That is already the core of the existing dispute between St Andrew's House and Whitehall.
The Treasury says it has ordered £5bn in "efficiency savings".
Team Salmond says they are no such thing: they are direct cuts, with direct impact upon Scotland.
So, if and when the Chancellor announces a search for further such savings tomorrow, the House on Calton Hill will be looking very carefully indeed at the small print.
Should this turn into a further controversy, then stand by for the First Minister and his Finance Secretary to protest, loudly.
Stand by further for a rebuttal from the Treasury/Scotland Office to the effect that Scotland gained substantially from the relative largesse of the past decade and must, consequently, share in the pain.
I'm 
© MMIX~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~06~RS~)
Comments
Sign in or register to comment.
Salmond needs to explain what he would do with falling tax takes.
Is he advocating the UK government borrow more or is he advocating that they raise taxes?
I know he advocates independence but even in his wildest dreams that is not going to happen in this financial year.
He should be held to the same standard that the BBC and others held opposition parties in Scotland when John Swinney chose tax cuts for businesses over increased investment in civic Scotland.
At the time Iain Gray and others were asked where they would cut spending to pay for their priorities - about time someone asked Salmond the same question.
Complain about this comment
Budget time is a time of year when the SNP always lick their chops.
No matter what is in the Budget, A Salmond and his gang will orchestrate matters to "substantiate" their agenda for independence.
Admittedly Westminster's handling of the recession could at best only be called a stab-in-the-dark, but I prefer their financial fumblings to any control by the SNP.
Complain about this comment
Interestingly only the SNP and the trade unions are opposing these much trailed plans - the Tories and the lib Dems actually want bigger cuts in spending.
Complain about this comment
We, at the bottom of the ladder, are going to be affected by the chancellors 'cuts'. It is always like that. No pain no gain. Ok, we are going to get the pain but where are we going to get the gain? The answer is that we are not going to get any gain; just the pain. Those that are telling us to tightened our belts are the same ones who have their second home morgages subsidised, they are the ones still going to have subsidised holidays at our expense and they are the ones who have a fairly decent standard of living as they fiddle their expenses to make sure that they are have their decent living. How are the people at the bottom of the ladder going to be able to fiddle their expenses; the answer is that they aren't. So much for Labour being the party of the working class.
You know yourself, Brian, that the chancellor has a huge hole to dig himself out of and no matter how he words it, it is still going to be cuts for those at the bottom.
Complain about this comment
Maybe if Scotland DID get a fair share of all the tax take (all tax currently goes to Westminster - Vat, Road Tax, Stamp Duty, Income Tax, Capital Gains Tax, TV licence, Import/Export taxes, etc.), then there wouldn't be such a problem.
When you add in Scotlands oil revenue which Westminster swallows up, which we never get to see any of, then it gets even worse.
The only "fair" solution is for self-determination.
Complain about this comment
A Brown Bust is very bad news for Scotland.
£1/2 billion of cuts already announced, £1 Billion to follow.
You don't need to be a mathematician (excluding Brian of course) to work out that represents large cuts in public services - be it schools - health services - transport - local services.
So much for the Union Dividend.
Complain about this comment
No1 and 2
Unionist mince as usual. Look up hypothetical. We wouldn't be in this mess, would we? Why oh why oh why can't these numpties put up an argument for our lovely Union and all it's lovely rosy garden floral displays. This mess is caused by the Union and the Unionists. What's your problem don't you have the intellect to think?
Complain about this comment
While it is expected to find the First Minister Alex Salmond talking tough with his expectations for renewed investment of spending in all sections of the Scottish Economy to boost employment in our current debts of Recession, we have to include the fact that any mantra of ideas is firmly balanced against the fact that all Political Parties will be cranking up their push for further expectations for delivery of Policies for Public constumption ahead of the forthcoming General Election in 2010.
While it seems that Mr Salmond is going Gung - Ho in his approach to apply pressure in advance of tomorrows Budget, which by any measure will result in Real reductions in Real Terms of overall Public Spending to finally reduce the U.K's. "Over-Draft" in both Government Debts, and to encourage the Public at Large to save and pay off their Personal Debts.
The idea that you can just increase spending on selected Public projects to spend your way out our recessionary cycle, while at the same time reducing the overall amounts allocated to Public expenditure is simply: a giving with the one hand and taking away with the other hand idea to create a false feel good factor at the center of spinning turn style Politics, which negitively allows Politicians to play the one- upmanship blame game with Policies both at the Hollyrood and Westminster level.
In reality what happens next in all sectors with regarding to Employment, and Investment, etc to return confidence or more over stability to everyday events depends entirely upon what happens next in the wider World Economy, for if the World is a machine that has to Work in tandem, then there is no point in any Country getting ahead of itself while other parts of this machine are still broken, for until all Countries can Export at their correct levels, along with an exceptable Exchange Rate then whatever Politicians say will always amount to nothing, other than being an arguement for Political gain purposes.
The way things so far are shaping up Globally we will still be in some form of Recession for the foreseeable Long - Term period of between 5 to 10 Years as many Countries just like the U.K. have got to Bottom - Out before they enter into any recovery period, for the only thing that is currently Booming both in the U.K. and around the World is the Bust, with increasing Global meltdown in everyday life with Unemployment and Home Reprocessions leading the way for again the Long - Term future.
Complain about this comment
#2
Based on what, exactly, newsjock? Oh, I forgot, you've got some insight into an alternative universe where a SNP governmentin an independent Scotland have the power to raise and spend taxes like a normal country.
Except that you don't and, as usual, are just spouting so much unionist rubbish.
Complain about this comment
#2 newsjock
It's usually better to compare things that actually bear comparison.
"Westminster's handling of the recession could at best only be called a stab-in-the-dark, but I prefer their financial fumblings to any control by the SNP"
You are comparing an institution with a party - makes no sense.
It would have been logical to have said
"Labour's handling of the recession could at best only be called a stab-in-the-dark, but I prefer their financial fumblings to any control by the SNP"
or
"Westminster's handling of the recession could at best only be called a stab-in-the-dark, but I prefer their financial fumblings to any control by Holyrood."
Either would have been logical. Both would have cast doubt upon your judgement.
Complain about this comment
The cuts will be savage and we shall all suffer exceedingly unless you are as gedguy says, all subsidised up to the hilt with your 'uy to rent' ortgages and massive debt.
Petrol of course will rise and just watch our dear, caring supermarkets climb onto that bandwaggon by putting up the price of everything again. Let's face it, even when fuel prices went down, did they reduce their prices???? NO!
I have noticed of late that in BBC-ese we're being told that things are getting better and we are well on track for recovery. I also note that we see little of Robert Peston nowadays. Could the 'great sage' have been neutered. After all, the peasants mustn't be told the truth lest they run riot and cause our caring, 'est police in the world' to gubthem. Oh and on that one, watch how long it'll be before having a mobile phone in designated, 'secure areas' will be come illegal under the Terrorism Aainst the Poor Polis Act 2009. This will prevent any wicked bystanders being able to take pictires and videos that might be, 'misinterpreted'.
Complain about this comment
The only saving grace for the gvoernment so far is that they could recoup monies speant on shoring up the banks, which I blaim them for allowing to tend towards chaos. Yep, say I am daft and wrong but they were in charge and allowed business to run amok with greed. Continuing from your mathematics and science lesson, which you would have witnessed in the show regarding nuclear fission and fussion, here we follow the laws of entropy: the natural order of disorder. Creating an order that appears randomised but is purely and simply an order of tendency to shift away from havoc and create an abundance of tranquility and harmony, a place of minimal energy, where particles co-exist without imploding/ exploding. What am I flapping my gums about? I have no idea.
I wonder though if that wee Darling will follow the Irish way and up taxes and drop spending. Don't shirk the fact that Brown adores Thatcher, a woman that Cons dropped like a tonne weight but admire and adore her. Labour up here are just as happy with Brown as long as they get the money to be happy and then tell us to shut-up, that we must face the burden of Browns greed. No more boom and bust, the FSA will ensure efficiency and regulation to protect the consumer and protect investment, a central bank will ensure prosperity and security. Is that not what Brown said? My girl-friend is relying on a Tory win by the way and she supports the Libs. Good grief! You see what this Labour party has done to people and the economy? Now Cameron will come and the Scots will sign a Cameronian pact of Covenanters ... oops, I am blethering. Too much disorder!
Oh no! Need to run, there is a fire somewhere near and smoke is coming into my house. I need to shut the windows, or else my clothes will reek of smoke. Hope no-one is hurt though.
Complain about this comment
#1 & #2 Unionist bile
The westmonster policies that have for centuries cheated Scotland and her people has created and compounded the arguement for Scotlands independence.
Do you really think that a westminster borne drive of funding cut's to Scotland (In the time of recession) will endear Labour to the hearts of Scottish denizens?
No, it won't. It will be fuel on the fire - and with the general election just around the corner, I'd be willing to bet that Labour's "safe" majority of Scottish MP's will fall drastically - with the SNP and Liberal Democrats benefiting from it.
David Cameron will become the new Prime minster of the United Kingdom, and with ONE Conservative MP in Scotland, the inevitable end to the union of the crown.
Complain about this comment
as we all know what has been "leaked" is always but the tip of the iceberg.
GB plc is on it's way to being bust.
all that is going to happen is the rich will be hit ,whilst the poor will be hit substantially harder.
the key to this is that when the cuts come it should NOT be in front line services, it should be in the mountain of back office managers ,senior managers ,auditors etc.
front line services are stretched to near braking point as it is as most of the money about is being used up by people who never deal with public and just fill their week with meaningless meetings about meetings. the amount that they contribute is zero.
Sid
Complain about this comment
This week's budget will certainly blow away Brown/Murphy's argument that smaller countries are worse-off than larger ones in the face of this slowdown.
Some of the UK statistics are mind-blowing. Around a £150 billion budget deficit this year. Same likely next year. Expect well over 3 million unemployed.
Although some smaller countries like Ireland are seeing big falls in GDP, they are starting from a position where their GDP per person is around 40% higher than ours. But most other comparable countries (eg Norway, Denmark, Switzerland) are doing better than Scotland is as part of the UK.
Where is the 'safety blanket' in being part of a big country going down the tubes, as opposed to being a smaller one?
And if I allow myself some conspiracy tendency, why has the Scottish media been so fixated with Iceland and Ireland's difficulties and not with America's, or the UK's?
Complain about this comment
It's simply too tempting to pass up.
It's tricky for a fair-minded individual to argue that, should spending be decreased, which it certainly must...that one part of the country must be insulated from that cut. This is especially the case when the Barnett Formula has been equally churning out increases over the past decade. I don't recall Wee Alec ever complaining about that.
Sadly there are two other aspects at play however. First is the obvious one that Wee Alec has to pick a carefully choreographed fight to demonstrate that Scots are being "victimised"...it plays to the Braveheart wing of the party but elicits yawns of ennui elsewhere. The second is the more tangible problem that the public sector forms a larger part of the Scottish economy than elesewhere in the UK (except Northern Ireland) and, as such, a cut in public spending will have a potentially bigger impact. That's bad news for those affected but again suggests that perhaps Scotland needs some of the private sector entrepreneurism, for which it is supposed to be famous, rather than demanding more money because more folk work for the council!
Before anyone jumps back at me (pointless because I have retired from blogging)...just a quick reminder. I live in the SW of England (nice weather...just about to plant out the aubergines;-)) The area has suffered a massive wipe-out in manufacturing, agriculture has been gutted by the "Tescopoly" in the economy, Cornwall is the poorest area in the UK and qualifies for European assistance, house prices are above national average...wages below. Yet we receive 2000 pounds less government spending per head than Scotland does under the Barnett Formula. Nobody in this forum has ever been able to explain or justify that discrepancy.
So when Wee Alec starts stamping his little feet I will think about health, education, social services where I live and think "Victimised....yeah right!"
Complain about this comment
I see Broon is promising to throw billions at his pals in the UK (English) House building sector.
There you go Brian - if Broon doesn't do that then the Scottish pocket money will not need to be cut.
By the way Brian do you think Darling is going to cough up all the Barnet differentials Scotland is due that he is holding onto ( Cross Rail, Olympics, Eurostar Paddington Link etc....)?
How about the large chunk of Disability Allowance from Scotland's pocket money that has gone unpaid for umpteen years?
How about Scotland being given all of the tax take (from the 20% increase in North Sea Oil and gas) from the Scottish sector Darling is hoping to encourage?
No - I didn't think so.
PS if Tom Wise is for the chop then why is David Marshall not in court alongside him?
Complain about this comment
It's like watching a watering hole in some arid part of Africa drying up day by day, the real elements that contribute to real taxes / GDP aka manaufacturing, are in some parts of this country becoming extinct! What's left Tourisim / Whisky! I bet you all the retirees that moved up from the south to bask in better social provisions for the elderly, but kept all their do$h off shore are looking for other fresh paradises, but guess what there ain't any! the whole world is in a mess...............
Complain about this comment
Efficiency savings are a way of life in the private sector. A business that doesn't learn to "do more with less" will not last long. Why should the public sector be exempt? The size of the public sector in this country is staggering, and quite rightly should be under the spotlight. If its done correctly, it will target the desk jockeys and hangers on, and not the front line services.
Complain about this comment
It's Bad.
It's Getting Worse.
It'll be Very Bad for some considerable time to come.
The simple reality of the situation is that Broon and Darling are now at the stage of fiddling while the country burns around them. They've hit the classical Labour Chancellor Problem - When they got there, the cupboard was bare....Only as opposed to the Usual Labour Chancellor Problem, it is because of complete mismanagement of the economy rather than over-management.
This will be the last budget before an election (unless of course we have an "Emergency" Budget in November) and anything other than the inevitable direct Tax rises are not going to hit until 2011/12.
So, they can say and do what they want - they know that they are not going to be in office to reap the consequences.
Reality: 15 Bn of "efficiency savings" ? If the government has had that amount of "slack" in it by inefficiency then NuLab shouldn't just be out of office, they should be hanging from the lamp-posts. The reality is that it is Cuts.
Is it going to be a cut in MP's allowances, or pensions, or "expenses" ? Is it going to be a "bonfire of the quangos" ? (Of course not, the Hon. NuLab members need somewhere to bolthole to after they are tossed out of Government). Will we be cancelling "son of Trident" ? Will we be cancelling over-budget and effectively useless Government IT procurements ?
Of course not. The cuts will come where We The People can least afford them - Social Security, Health, Education.
Of course, here in Northern Britain, we will presumably have to bear our "share" of the pain. And of course, Health and Education are Devolved matters, so will Northern British NuLab be hand-wringing and ever so 'umble as their lords and masters in London raid the purse ?
Or will they instead be putting the arm on the fourth estate to trumpet the "failures" of the SNP ? (Sorry, I meant to say, to avoid a spell of "re-education", was "to enjoy a close working relationship with a number of media outlets in informing the public of the (UK) Government's policies in this very trying time")
You guess.
The plan failed, guys. In the event of Tory government, retreat to the "Devolved" parliaments and sit back for five years.
Forget whether or not we've got what it takes. Speed 2010 Westmunster and 2011 Holyrood.
This time,
It IS Time !
Complain about this comment
#8. LondonHarris
I think your 5 - 10 years is on the optimistic side I think it will be longer. The general public and politicians will never accept these figures as they still believe that they have right to continued growth ad in finitum. The more money that keeps getting pumped into the system will just come back and bite twice as hard.
UKranked low on youth wellbeing I suppose 24th out of 29 countries is a good advert for this wonderful "Union" that thinks it leads the World in all things.
Complain about this comment
Anglo
Who's gives a hoot for the Barnett formula. Only one formula should count - what Scotland earns it should keep. I love Cornwall and will be there for summer hols. Hope you are enjoying the Union dividend in the SW.
Complain about this comment
#16. Anglophone
Is it not because Cornwall is/has been used as Westminster playground where they can have their holiday homes and dictate to the locals at what is best for "them".
Westminster needs Scotland as to what it supplies to the exchequer which means they have to try by fair means or foul and keep us on board.
Complain about this comment
#19, I have some sympathy with you however, it is not really as simple as your view on it.
For a start, the private sector are primarily at fault for squeezing huge profits for a privilaged few and this greed (read efficiency savings) has caused the current economic crisis.
Secondly, cutting staff in the public sector will only increase unemployment (ie. less folk paying taxes and more folk claiming benefits - a downward spiral that would do more harm than good).
lets not forget that the top 10% in this country still own 90% of the wealth, this is the core issue which needs redressed... and blinking quick if we are to face a brighter future.
Complain about this comment
#21, Cynicalhighlander,
But thas all right, right, cos, right, Engerland, right, are ranked Sevnf, SEVNF in the World Football rankings.
So that means, right, that Engerland, right, ENGERLAND is millions of miles better, right, than the Jocks, Taffs and Micks.
Anna bleeding Frogs.
But twennyforf for kids ? If the Jocks had a ranking of 24 they'd be painting their backsides blue and singin the Nashional Anfum.
And you know what is really worrying ?
Although I am trying to be cynical, ironic and even amusing, that really is how some of them think.
That it is more important to have a higher FIFA quotient than how we compare socially, educationally, economically with the rest of Europe.
It Really IS Time.
Complain about this comment
Brian, Do you not think the P.M. has intentionally let the horses bolt before acting on 2nd home allowances?
These homes have had all the necessary upgradings made to them over the last ten years or more and are now ready for selling on at an enhanced price by those MP's who are not returned at the next General Election - guess which party this will affect most!
I feel the P.M. has left the situation to fester as long as possible for the benefit of outgoing MP's. Do you agree?
Complain about this comment
#16 Anglophone
Yawn....obviously get rid of Barnett.....independence.
Did you need to ask?
Complain about this comment
Anyone for an "efficiency saving" ?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8009901.stm
Sqeeaaaaaakkkkkk
Complain about this comment
22 OldSchoolTie
"what Scotland earns it should keep"
Be very, very careful what you wish for!
Nobody has ever demonstrated one way or the other about who subsidizes whom over the long run. Nats base their figures on $140 oil, unionists base theirs on $40 oil. So we get hugely, pointlessly skewed numbers and the argument goes on. To my knowledge, nobody has ever come up with a dispassionate study...in fact in a previous blog I challenged the tartan hotheads and assorted pedants to design a fair methodology as to how it could be worked out. No takers I'm afraid...paranoia and slogans are far easier to spout than sober facts.
23 Cynical Highlander
How short-sighted of me. Westminster politicians have deliberately compromised the Cornish economy in order to keep it a nice place in which to own a second home. I was thinking that really boring things like the decline of tin mining, over-fishing, poor land communications and agricultural depression might have something to do with it but no!...of course it's a massive conspiracy. Silly me!
24 Bongo01
You won't find me arguing too much with you. The polarization of income in this country over the past 20 years is worrying...mind you I'm just back from India so it's all relative. Sweeping cuts in public employment would, as you say, be totally counterproductive, but it is certainly time for manning levels to be phased downwards through natural attrition. The expansion of the public sector over the past ten years has helped spawn a massive budgetary deficit without any commensurate gains in effectiveness. Largely money wasted but with at least some wider social benefits and infinitely preferable to guaranteeing the well-being of the "former masters of the universe"
Bearing in mind that capitalism is the worst method of delivering benefits to society...with the exception of anything else that has ever been tried;-), surely the trick over the next 20 years will be to find a way of redressing income disparity without the corrolary of disincentivising the very work ethic and enterprise upon which we depend. It needs to be done but I'm pessimistic that it can be managed given the number of conflicting interests.
We are all but specks of flesh whirling to destruction in this dance of death that we call life...doesn't move the argument on but sounds deep;-)
Complain about this comment
#28 Chiefy1724
And there was me believing Global Broon when he said he was concentrating on how best to save jobs in this recession.
Now I really believe him! His own.
Complain about this comment
Anglophone:
#16.
"It's tricky for a fair-minded individual to argue that, should spending be decreased, which it certainly must...that one part of the country must be insulated from that cut. This is especially the case when the Barnett Formula has been equally churning out increases over the past decade. I don't recall Wee Alec ever complaining about that."
It's a problem because Health and Education is what makes up most of our budget, but I believe that the it goes for England too. Front lines services should not be targeted, especailly when we are talking about Education and Health.
It has never been said once that Scotland should avoid all forms of cuts, and for England to receive them instead.
And last but not least, even Labour do not follow the Barnett Formula. Despite overall being in the red when it came to finances, money was spent on prisons that was never allocated to Scotland, and well the English Olympics is another example.
;-)
"Sadly there are two other aspects at play however. First is the obvious one that Wee Alec has to pick a carefully choreographed fight to demonstrate that Scots are being "victimised"...it plays to the Braveheart wing of the party but elicits yawns of ennui elsewhere. The second is the more tangible problem that the public sector forms a larger part of the Scottish economy than elesewhere in the UK (except Northern Ireland) and, as such, a cut in public spending will have a potentially bigger impact. That's bad news for those affected but again suggests that perhaps Scotland needs some of the private sector entrepreneurism, for which it is supposed to be famous, rather than demanding more money because more folk work for the council!"
I am fed up with you sterotyping the Scottish National Party and her supporters. Your attitude is disgusting, no wonder England is becoming such a racist country and support for the British National Party is constantly on the rise!
and for the record as I wrote on a earlier page the number of private employment opportunites have been increasing while public sector employment has been decreasing.
I wish the same could be said for England, but hey I guess oyu are another who wishes to ignore reality.
"Before anyone jumps back at me (pointless because I have retired from blogging)...just a quick reminder. I live in the SW of England (nice weather...just about to plant out the aubergines;-)) The area has suffered a massive wipe-out in manufacturing, agriculture has been gutted by the "Tescopoly" in the economy, Cornwall is the poorest area in the UK and qualifies for European assistance, house prices are above national average...wages below. Yet we receive 2000 pounds less government spending per head than Scotland does under the Barnett Formula. Nobody in this forum has ever been able to explain or justify that discrepancy."
Please provide your evidence.
But the BF does only work when money is spent in England, are you suggesting Scotland receives nothing while England pillages the Treasury?
Complain about this comment
#21 cynical Highlander:
I wasn't going to mention that study, but since you have let's peep out from between our fingers and sneak a look into the abyss that is the so-called "arc of insolvency":
Overall ranking
1 Netherlands
2 Sweden
3 Norway
4 Iceland
5 Finland
6 Denmark
7 Slovenia
8 Germany
9 Ireland
What a scary prospect, that Scotland should seek to join such company!
Complain about this comment
Greetings from the STUC Congress in Perth (are you here, Brian?) where Alex Salmond was cheered not once, not twice but three times by the gathering... compare and contrast with Ian Gray's lukewarmm reception yesterday. To be fair, Salmond could give the masses what they wanted: no Trident, no illegal war, arguing for fiscal stimulus rather than public sector cuts, while Gray couldn't be seen to criticise Labour at Westminster. But it still comes to something when the leader of the Labour Party in the Scottish Parliament couldn't get a cheer from the STUC..
BTW, Harriet Harman went totally off message yesterday here when she argued against cutting spending during a recession AND gave Mandelson a kicking by guaranteeing that the new Equality Bill would not be watered down due to business whingeing...
I'm enjoying this!!
Complain about this comment
#29 Anglophone
Self-rule for Cornwall
"Cornish nationalists are preparing a legal challenge to the UK government's decision to refuse the people of Cornwall national minority status. They argue that Cornwall is a separate Celtic nation, similar to Wales and Scotland, and that their political, economic and cultural rights have been diminished by rule from Westminster. The aim is devolution, with a Cornish parliament. Why not?"
I'm not the one out of touch.
Complain about this comment
#32 forfar-loon
The bottom bit of the list is worth a look too.
24 United Kingdom
25 Romania
26 Bulgaria
27 Latvia
28 Lithuania
29 Malta
However, Labour will simply point to Malta and say "See what happens to wee independent countries!"
Complain about this comment
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Efficiency savings by the Tories, mean fewer hospitals, nurses , teachers and street cleaners in the gospel according to Brown. Efficiency savings by Labour means fewer nurses , teachers , hospitals and street cleaners, but , more civil servants , more clerical staff in schools and hospitals and more allowances for MP's and councillors. It is highly unlikely that this government can deliver any savings anywhere at any level, or any cuts in public spending except on paper. It's not in Labour's mindset to make savings when they have the taxpayer to act as a captive cash cow which can be milked mercilessly as Dennis Healey once said " until the pips squeak ". No doubt they will reduce the budget of Scotland, Wales, the armed forces and anything else that doesn't upset the unions or Brown's benefit voters but any money saved will be squandered on hair brained schemes designed to scrape a few more voters out of the sewers at the next election whatever damage this does to the country's economy
Complain about this comment
Oh, dear Lord, there are STILL nats who believe this utter nonsense!!
5. Hughedinburgh: "When you add in Scotlands oil revenue which Westminster swallows up, which we never get to see any of, then it gets even worse."
As even the SNP now grudgingly concede, after decades of wrongly claiming the exact same as you, Scotland receives and spends its full share of North Sea tax revenues.
I (yet again!) quote directly from a certain Scottish Government report:
"In 2006-07, the estimated net fiscal balance in Scotland...was a deficit of £10.2 billion excluding North Sea revenue...or a deficit of £2.7 billion including an estimated geographical share of North Sea revenue."
Hughedinburgh, I suggest you start waking up to financial and economic reality just as the SNP is slowly doing.
Complain about this comment
I see that Labour is intent on doing even more damage to the Scottish economy by increasing travel times and pushing up costs by reducing A road speed limits by nearly 20%.
Complain about this comment
31 Thomas Porter
"I am fed up with you sterotyping the Scottish National Party and her supporters"
When you start referring to a political party in the feminine, like a ship, it's time to get out more and find a girlfriend.
Oh dear Oh dear...accusations of racism again? What a worn out debating device. A young man like you should try to come up with something new. Why should someone commenting on the size of the public sector in Scotland be racist and reflect the "rise of the BNP" in England? I think that you should save up your pocket money and take a trip to Ibrox Park if you're in search of flag -waving, tub-thumping British Nationalism
Complain about this comment
39. Brilliant! Well spotted!
Reducing speed limits on all A roads is indeed part of the government strategy to do maximum damage to the Scottish economy!
LOL!
Complain about this comment
#36 G A Aberdeen
"jakey tool" - disgraceful comment but alas the type that is becoming all too familiar on these blogs.
Complain about this comment
34 Cynical Highlander
You must be referring to the people driving around in clapped out cars with "Kernow" stickers on the back. They're in the Shetland Separatist bracket or like those funny guys wearing plaid and sleeping in the heather, trying to commune with their poet-warrior forbears. Basically pub-radicals with half-baked ideas.
Their search for a "Celtic" identity is interesting however...something of a DNA puzzle to unravel to work out who's Cornish and who isn't. Wait and see the feared "Emmit Test" in which grown men fear to erect a windbreak on the beach for fear of being identified as an off-worlder. Maybe they've got some ideas on how you'll deal with your own "muggle" problem come independence;-)
Complain about this comment
#38 Reluctant-Expat
Quite why you insist on coming back with this continuing need to demonstrate that you have no understanding of economics, is beyond me.
You have amply demonstrated that before.
Scotland had a structural fiscal deficit (that's the difference between tax raised and government spend). The UK had a structural fiscal deficit which is virtually identical per capita.
Your UK Government had a policy of borrowing to make up the difference (and a pretty stupid policy it was too), so that it could throw money around.
The problem that you think you had identified is the failure of UK policy, not Scottish.
You obviously need to find an economics text a little less advanced than that school book you currently use.
Complain about this comment
When is the 2007-08 GERS being released by the SNP?
I am waiting for the spin the SNP put on their deficit being larger. The deficit was #2.7bn when oil was $60-70 a barrel and production was higher than nowdays.
I wonder what it will be now that oil is 20-25% cheaper, production is 15% down, non-oil tax revenues barely changed....yet expenditure is up?
And where has the 2005-06 GERS gone? I can't find it on the SG website anymore.
Did they remove 05-06 because it was so remarkably close to the figures in the 06-07 report (a mere 1.6% difference I believe it was) despite the latter being subject to the SNP's much-publicised 3,000-ish corrections, recalculations and challenges.....thereby disintegrating bizarre nationalist conspiracy claims that Labour's figures were false?
Loving this desperate anti-English lunge at that Cornish story! True nat colours flying in the sun today, aren't they.
Complain about this comment
#42 salmondella
Initially, my reaction was the same as yours, until I consulted the urban dictionary, and discovered an alternative definition -
"One who is a fierce warrior, quick with words and extremely personable. Despite a Jakey’s reputation as a warrior he is a kind and considerate gentleman and always a ladies man.
There are many misconceptions about a Jakey's drinking habits because of their appreciation for fine wine and beer. "
I have no knowledge of whether Mr Murphy fits this description, or whether he would be flattered or insulted.
Complain about this comment
#43 Anglophone
Just what have you been doing all day?
Complain about this comment
44. Oldnat!
Back to demonstrate how we are both the SNP's "poorest performing small economy in Europe (but only if you use their preferred selection and then bundle them all together instead of comparing one-to-one)" and also your "third richest country in the world"?
I think you'll find that your response has absolutely zip-zilch to do with my post refuting Hughedinburgh's out-dated, inaccurate and astonishingly ignorant claim that we "never see oil tax revenues".
Good to hear from you though.
Complain about this comment
#45 Reluctant-Expat
"When is the 2007-08 GERS being released by the SNP?"
Given that you have read the document, which you quote above, entitled:
"Government Expenditure & Revenue Scotland 2006 - 2007".
I am amazed that you failed to notice the only other thing printed on the cover:
"June 2008".
It seems more than reasonable to conclude that the GERS report for 2007 - 2008 will apear sometime around June 2009.
I also presume that this was an oversight on your part and that you were not trying to suggest that the Scottish Government were deliberately delaying its publication.
Complain about this comment
34. Have you read this?
http://www.journal-online.co.uk/article/5121-shetland-chief-calls-for-independence
How much income would be lost from Salmond's pocket if this went ahead?
(Love the nationalist conspiracist's comment at the bottom, especially that London wanted to make Aberdeen's coastal water's 'English' bit.
Someone point him towards a map showing the real boundary and not a hilariously inaccurate nationalist version.)
Complain about this comment
49. So....you don't actually know either then? I can guess and estimate for myself, thank you!
By the way, the SNP's 06-07 version was only released in June 08 after several months of delays caused by those 3,000+ recalculations. I believe the previous versions were usually released each November.
Complain about this comment
If there are all those Billions of efficiency savings waiting to be made, then what has Labour been doing (at Westminster & Hollyrood) all these years?
Complain about this comment
#40 Anglophone
With you all the way on that one. And while you're at it, throw in the Orange Lodge lot and their pointless marches through Edinburgh and Glasgow (and possibly other Scottish towns and cities).Biggotry begets biggotry and we could all do well without it in 21st Century Scotland (and the rest of the UK).
And yes, (totally off topic, I know) but I'd be perfectly happy for the Old Firm to disappear of down to Enfland. Not that it'll ever happen as they need the guarantee of playing in Europe every year that they get by being part of the Scottish set-up and wouldn't get in England.
Still, those of us who follow the lesser teams can dream a little...
Complain about this comment
#46 oldnat
behave!
Complain about this comment
#51 Reluctant-Expat
"49. So....you don't actually know either then? I can guess and estimate for myself, thank you!"
Why don't you email the Scottish Government, as they'll know better than anyone on here.
"By the way, the SNP's 06-07 version was only released in June 08 after several months of delays caused by those 3,000+ recalculations. I believe the previous versions were usually released each November."
Actually, it wasn't the SNP version of the report, it was the official Scottish Government report.
And if they had introductions 3,000+ recalculations and new calculations, and were still committed to finding better ways to analise the data, then I'd expect them to be no less thorough in subsequent years.
Complain about this comment
#41 Reluctant Expat
Self evidently you know very little about Scotland's geography.
There are few motorway or dual carriageway standard roads in Scotland. For example, most of the A96 between Aberdeen and Inverness and the road up to Wick and beyond are all A class single carriageway roads. Reducing the speed limit on this important route will increase travel times and that costs money.
Complain about this comment
53. I wish they'd make up their minds!
I'm an egg-chaser myself (a man's sport for real men in a man's world etc.) and I have very little interest in where these overpaid, permanently off-balance, mostly-foreign-anyway darlings play....but weren't they recently discussing leaving the SPL for some Euro-mini-league involving top clubs from small countries (Netherlands, Portugal and possibly Greece were mentioned)?
Spot on re the bigotry. In this 21st Century globalised society, I think it's time people grew up and perhaps even started to acknowledge that we are all part of one worldwide human society, instead of clinging to a variety of outdated and increasingly irrelevant groups flimsily based on just-as irrelevant historic, cultural, ethnic, racial and/or religious mindsets.
Come on you lot, group hug.
Complain about this comment
I like the Daily mash and its take on the budget leaks and on dear Darling too!
Complain about this comment
55. Ah, got you.
So the SNP are going to do it the old way first...and then do it all over again the new way, thereby monopolising the SG's Finance Dept for 14 months instead of the usual 8 months.
Just like the bridge. As soon as you finish, you've just got to go and start all over again.
Makes sense.
Complain about this comment
The Treasury has ordered £5 billion efficiency savings.
So that will fix things?
Some estimates have this years deficit approaching £200 billion, with more eye watering deficits expected in future years.
A country with deficits on this scale is a basket case.
Double the National Debt in a handful of years and you can expect consequences.
Complain about this comment
#57 RE
"Couldn't agree more (although keep that quiet, agreeing with you might cost me brownie points on here...), but then I'm an ex-rugby player myself. There again, if you want a real "man's" sport, it has to be shinty. (Oh, and aye_write, I wasn't being derogatory, I am fully aware that there are women's shinty teams out there too).I suspect that there is a subtle dig at the Nationalist Community hidden away in that comment but, that aside, again, what can I say other than that I wholeheartedly agree.That's twice in one post. I'm now away to take my medicine and lie down in a darkened room...
Complain about this comment
Meanwhile "on-topic",
I expect to hear much of "Efficiency Savings" from Mr Darling tomorrow, and less of "Cuts", despite Brian's concerns as to how one effects Barnett Consequentials more than the other.
The reason being that even when he means "Cuts" Mr Darling will use the term "Efficiency Saving" for perceived political gain.
In current "NuLabour Speak" an Efficiency Saving is where you reduce (i.e. Cut) the budget, but seek as best you can to maintain services at previous levels theough increased efficiency.
It's a budgetary cut, whatever he calls it.
Traditionally the term "efficiency saving" is where you maintain the budget, but look to deliver increased services through increased efficiency. This is not a cut.
I'm sure our Scottish Press will however report Cuts as Cuts tomorrow!
I can hear it now - "£15Bn savings but no service cuts from Brown and Darling, Alchemists Extaordinaire!"
Complain about this comment
They have a problem time for a vote of no confidence I believe when a PM leaks on Utube trying to outdo Susan Boyle no doubt.
Expat have you learnt the difference between "critical water supply" and "plenty water supply" yet?
Complain about this comment
60. It's not going to be pleasant by any means as debt repayments are expected to rise from 30-40bn a year to upwards of 80-90bn a year.
However, Japan and Italy among the major industrialised nations have been pottering more or less quite happily on such levels of debt for some years.
If you want to see real consequences of macroeconomic mismanagement, keep an eye on the hapless souls in Iceland and Ireland.
The former is all-but bankrupt and in major hock to, and under the control of, the IMF. The latter is already slashing public services, budgets and salaries at rates far and beyond anything on the UK's radar and seeing unemployment returning to pre-Celtic Tiger levels.
Complain about this comment
#16 Anglophone (and others)
Regarding your complaints that Mr Salmond should not seek to further the case for Scotland and the budget available to the Scottish Government, even at the expense of other areas of the UK.
Are you serious.....?
What, do you imagine, should be the role of the Scottish First Minister?
Granted, it may have been different under previous holders of that office from the Labour Party - but that is their fundamental problem - not Mr Salmond's.
Imagine the thought - A Scottish First Minister seeking the best for Scotland and her people?
And he's doing it deliberately!!!
Complain about this comment
65. But he's not going to get anywhere, is he.
The cuts are going to happen in England and therefore, under the Barnett Formula that Salmond applies so often, cuts are coming our way too.
He is going to look very silly trying his inevitable "Scotland is not receiving its rightful share" party-piece when the UK has recently spent half a trillion squids just on propping up our more spectacular corporate disasters.
You'll be able to hear the laughter coming from south of the border in Lerwick.
How many thousands of Scottish jobs were saved by those massive bail-outs and rescues that, alone, almost doubled the UK's national debt? Anyone?
Complain about this comment
# 65 dear_wendy
Don't tell anyone that Mr. Salmond is trying his best for his country; you will just give ammunition to the Unionists. I was under the impression that this was a SNP secret. ;)
Complain about this comment
#66 Reluctant Expat
"The cuts are going to happen in England and therefore, under the Barnett Formula that Salmond applies so often, cuts are coming our way too."
Not necessarily.
If the cuts occur only to the budgets of reserved departments then there shold be no cut in the block grant for Scotland.
However, the rhetoric coming from Westminster for months seem to be preparing Scotland for a cut, so these cuts in England must be to English departments, for devolved matters, too.
But the cuts have to be identified across Westminster departments in detail in order to identify how much consequentials should apply to Scotland. It would not be surprising for the Treasury to try to cut the Scottish block grant on the basis of cuts Westminster department cuts for both reserved and devolved matters.
However, at least we appear to agree that the Treasury have been misleading to refer to these cuts as "efficiency savings".
Complain about this comment
At the STUC conference, it would appear that the political landscape is shifter ever more in favour of independence.
More and more the unions in Scotland seem to be building bridges with the SNP while questioning their loyalty to Labour.
Apart from the ovations given to the First Minister, it is interesting reading the agenda for the conference.
There are numerous references to devolved matters where initiatives have been welcomed, and where the challenges for congress were mainly in relation to reserved issues.
However, one specific proposal caught my attention.
It was only a few years ago that the Fire Brigades Union tabled a thinly veilled attack on the SNP, where they called for the STUC to denounce any nationalist based political party.
Now they are calling for employment law to be devloved to the Scottish Government where, they say, it would be more effectively and fairly implemented.
Complain about this comment
68. What is the point of this statement:
"It would not be surprising for the Treasury to try to cut the Scottish block grant on the basis of Westminster department cuts for both reserved and devolved matters."
That's just more silly conspiratorial claims with no basis whatsoever.
You nats are so determined to find something to be angry about, you repeatedly resort to inventing future scenarios that have zero liklihood of even happening.
Complain about this comment
#70 Reluctant-Expat
"68. What is the point of this statement:
"It would not be surprising for the Treasury to try to cut the Scottish block grant on the basis of Westminster department cuts for both reserved and devolved matters."
That's just more silly conspiratorial claims with no basis whatsoever."
On the contrary, the Treasury has previous form in this area.
Such as the £1.2 billion of extra money spent upgrading English prisons where, as a devolved area, a consequential payment should have been passed on to the Scottish Government.
Instead, the Treasury claimed that while this spending was on prisons, a devolved area, the oney had come from savings made in other, reserved departments.
Exactly the kind of ploy that I suggested above.
Complain about this comment
#70 Reluctant-Expat -
I see your -
That's just more silly conspiratorial claims with no basis whatsoever
and raise you #17 Slaintemha -
[D]o you think Darling is going to cough up all the Barnet differentials Scotland is due that he is holding onto ( Cross Rail, Olympics, Eurostar Paddington Link etc....)?
It's hardly with no basis whatsoever if past experience has shown that this is precisely the sort of thing our Westmidden Administration would push through if they thought they could get away with it - in other words if it has, y'know, a basis.
Complain about this comment
#64
National Debts can be difficult to compare. The UK does not include items such as PFI. However Italy & Japan never suddenly doubled theirs.
You describe them as industrialised nations, and that is the point, the UK is not, it imports, another weakness, big trade imbalance.
Also Italy has little household debt, the UK the highest. Italy is part of the Eurozone. The UK has just experienced a 30% devaluation which together with the QE experiment, for an importing state, will be inflationary and inflation is how governments steal from their citizens.
The UK is structurally the worst placed of all the major economies and probably most of the small ones to, and it all about to unravel.
Complain about this comment
Reluctant Expat
Just released. The IMF Global Stability Report. Look it up or see tomorrows newspapers.The UK is top. Almost 14% GDP lost in the Banking Crisis, representing real net fiscal loss to the taxpayers.Bottom of table Japan & Italy less than 1% losses.
It's a disaster.
Complain about this comment
#74 rochcarlie
"IMF Global Stability Report"
Thanks - should be interesting reading. You can download it from the IMF here.
It should be interesting later to see what the UK Press make of it.
Post or reactive moderation for all except CBeebies, please!
Complain about this comment
PS to my #75
The Spectator seem to be one of the first with some UK analysis in their The IMF's damning verdict. As the article says, they're the "figures Gordon Brown didn't want you to read".
It may make the pre-Budget YouTube antics a little more explicable - anything to divert attention away from the smoke and mirrors we can expect from Capn. Darling tomorrow.
Post or reactive moderation for all except CBeebies, please!
Complain about this comment
Bankrupt sale all offers considered. Urgent
A group of conjoined islands in the eastern atlantic with an incumbent management system in need of upgrading to bring it up to a modern democratic standard. It is vastly overpopulated but we would expect a large number of wealthy individuals to relocate far and wide of their own accord in the not too distant future. An early sale would be preferred before widespread civil unrest becomes endemic as this would jeopardise its basic infrastructure and ultimately lead to a total collapse of its habitability to future generations. As this country is made up of separate nations I am sure that there occupants would be more than willing to be allowed to govern themselves individually but that can be negotiated nearer the closing date which we envisage in the not to distant future.
All inquiries for a full prospectus to:
Messrs *********
Complain about this comment
Would it be possible to ask for a huge reduction in our defence budget. I would be more than happy for the cancellation of a new generation of trident on the clyde. More than happy to see a reduction of troops in Afganistan.
Complain about this comment
Anglophone:
#40.
"Oh dear Oh dear...accusations of racism again? What a worn out debating device. A young man like you should try to come up with something new. Why should someone commenting on the size of the public sector in Scotland be racist and reflect the "rise of the BNP" in England? I think that you should save up your pocket money and take a trip to Ibrox Park if you're in search of flag -waving, tub-thumping British Nationalism."
I am not accusing you of being racist. I accused you of sterotyping, which we can all witness for ourselves.
I then went on, whilst using your attitude, as evidence to support my point that England is fast becoming a racist country, hence the rise of the British National Party all over your country.
See, so, is the rest of England as ignorant as you are?
Rule Britannia!
(You can't see me, but I am saluting the Union Jack!)
British Jobs for British Workers.
Can I join your club now?
............................................
I see Reluctant-Expat has came back, and what a suprise. They have made the effort to post many comments, none actually show evidence to support their veiws, roughly 50 percent claim the same thing - the SNP are liars the United Kingdom can only be trusted! And whatever comments are left are simply put downs of other posters by acting as they know best...
I would not be suprised if Expat and Anglophone were at an internet cafe together. There both as embarressing as one another through their sterotyping views over the SNP and ridiculous claims that they can never prove even though you ask in a polite manner.
Complain about this comment
Brian,
This is crazy - we have to have a budget determined by cuts and decisions at Whitehall, not our own economic performance! Does anyone see how idiotic (and embarrassing) that is? Where else do you have a nation that prefers to use some obtuse obscure criteria - how can that help?
More sensible obviously to use our own generated revenue to set our budgets - just like everybody else does!
"Scotland gained substantially from the relative largesse of the past decade and must, consequently, share in the pain."
Further, this is contradicted by esteemed economists Jim and Margaret Cuthbert, in their study "A Devolved Scotland's Economic Prospects", where they explain that Scotland's economy has suffered as a result of Scotland being in the Union:
Contrast the UK government's position as regards Europe ["The UK Government has been consistent in its position that it should retain a substantial measure of fiscal autonomy for the UK in the European context, and regards this as being of paramount importance in steering and managing the economy."] with the stance it has taken on taxation within the UK. Here, its policy is very much that of the level playing field. Central government determines what the taxes are, and has taken the position that the major taxes should apply uniformly throughout the UK, with no major differentials in taxation between different areas.
Is this position consistent with the aspirations of the different countries...within the UK to increase their competitiveness, and share, on some reasonably equal basis, in the growth of the economy as a whole?
We argue that it is not, and look in some detail at Scotland's economic performance to explain why not. We first consider key symptoms illustrating that Scotland has chronically under-performed economically: then we argue that there is an underlying mechanism explaining a large part of this under-performance, and that this relates to the way the UK monetary union has operated.
Any budget botherings should be first tackled within independence.
Complain about this comment
RickyRoss:
#78.
Yes, let us reduce our defence budget. Heck, you clearly know what we are up against in Afganistan. Gordon Brown must be putting up a show by sending all those soldiers there, c'mon how much do you believe we really need there, a thousand?
Between you and I, I have work for you if you fall victim to the recession.
You can go door to door and explain why their husbands won't be returning home.
That's the reality of the situation.
Complain about this comment
PS to my #76
Aunty has now spoken on the IMF report with this website's Meltdown losses of '$4 trillion' confirming that the IMF predict the UK bail out will cost £200bn. I'm sure we can all agree in hoping that the Treasury response that the IMF forecast was "very high" is founded on more than spin.
PMQs and the Budget responses should be compelling viewing tomorrow.
Post or reactive moderation for all except CBeebies, please!
Complain about this comment
#2 newsjock
"No matter what is in the Budget, A Salmond and his gang will orchestrate matters to "substantiate" their agenda for independence.
That's because independence, the normal position for countries, is better for them, and us.
Why else would no other nation be seeking to cower under the economic wing of its neighbour, in this recession (or ever?)??
It doesn't take a genius to work it out.
"Admittedly Westminster's handling of the recession could at best only be called a stab-in-the-dark, but I prefer their financial fumblings to any control by the SNP."
Well that's just personal bias from you - did someone from the SNP once step on your Hebe?
Complain about this comment
#8. LondonHarris
Where. on; this- earth! did# you' learn TO write? For. goodness, sake^ man, punctuate, punctuate, punctuate!
Complain about this comment
#16 Anglophone
"It's simply too tempting to pass up."
Well we big-hearted sovereigntists are here merely for your amusement...
"This is especially the case when the Barnett Formula has been equally churning out increases over the past decade. I don't recall Wee Alec ever complaining about that."
I think you'll find that arguing for independence is quite against the Barnet formula whether it gives out increases, smart creases or chocolate coins....
"Wee Alec has to pick a carefully choreographed fight to demonstrate that Scots are being "victimised"...it plays to the Braveheart wing of the party but elicits yawns of ennui elsewhere."
Well, you haven't read your independence bible. It's not about victimisation, Anglophone - I've told you this several times. It's about restoring normality to a nation, having sovereign status. I'd love to see you in my shoes. No "whining" would come from your lips about how England was being "mistreated", no, never. No pride you have!
I don't think Scotland's public sector size can be taken without considering it in context - there are reasons for it. The Cuthberts again (see my #80) detail:
A traditional response when one area in a monetary union suffers a relative economic setback has been for central government to arrange a compensating stimulus in public expenditure in the affected area, to buoy up the economy. This, indeed, is one way of viewing the historically high levels of public expenditure in Scotland, even though the way governments overtly rationalise high public expenditure in Scotland is in terms of greater need for services.....But what we are arguing is that high public expenditure, while it may be a palliative, is unlikely to be a solution in itself, and may make finding a solution more difficult.
Spiteful, bitter, misinformed and unattractive:
"Cornwall is the poorest area in the UK and qualifies for European assistance, house prices are above national average...wages below. Yet we receive 2000 pounds less government spending per head than Scotland does under the Barnett Formula. Nobody in this forum has ever been able to explain or justify that discrepancy."
It isn't justified! When would supporters of independence ever suggest the Barnett formula was justified!?? I don't want pocket money, or to squabble over pocket money. I want to have my own job and earn my own money. It's pretty simple, Anglophone.
"So when Wee Alec starts stamping his little feet I will think about health, education, social services where I live and think "Victimised....yeah right!""
Don't you stereotype me through such a pathetic, nasty slur on Salmond. YOU it seems are playing the victim in this whole piece. Look in that shaving mirror you're so fond of. I don't want your (rhymes with "modding") "handouts".
Complain about this comment
I've been looking at the GruniadICM April poll results. Very difficult to make out as Scotland is part of the North but it looks as if the SNP is running at 30-32% and that the Scots are not now more optimistic than the rest of the UK about the depression.
A really large pinch of salt is required as none of the SNP voters have switched allegiance and ex-Labour voters are going 3 to the Tories v.s 2 to the LibDems!
Complain about this comment
Is it not unfortunate, that the Tories, when in office, disposed of all those Public Assets. The North Sea Oil concessions, some now owned by Middle East States. The Utilities many now in foreign ownership.
At this time of inslovency now useful they would have been.
Can anyone suggest what we might now flogg to foreigners.
Robert Preston has a piece on the IMF Report.
Complain about this comment
#29 Anglophone
"Be very, very careful what you wish for!
Nobody has ever demonstrated one way or the other about who subsidizes whom over the long run."
You just "proved" in your #16 with your...
Yet we receive 2000 pounds less government spending per head than Scotland does under the Barnett Formula.
...who you see subsidises who. Pot and kettle!??
"in fact in a previous blog I challenged the tartan hotheads and assorted pedants to design a fair methodology as to how it could be worked out. No takers I'm afraid...paranoia and slogans are far easier to spout than sober facts."
And I damn well answered you. You were silent weren't you - conveniently retired. Highhanded statements then retreat - mainstay of "British" arguments, however, lacking in the manners you're so associated with.
In the GDP per capita of the EU-27, measured in Purchasing Power Standards (PPS), Scotland has been shown to be 3rd richest (with oil) and equal 10th with Finland and Germany (without). Are you so confident the next set of data will show Scotland has fallen way off the chart?
Just under 150 countries have gained independence in the last 60 or so years. Most smaller and poorer than Scotland. Not one has since chosen to relinquish its sovereignty again i.e. go back.
"How short-sighted of me. Westminster politicians have deliberately compromised the Cornish economy in order to keep it a nice place in which to own a second home. I was thinking that really boring things like the decline of tin mining, over-fishing, poor land communications and agricultural depression might have something to do with it but no!...of course it's a massive conspiracy. Silly me!"
I thought you would take cynical's argument in the context you both were aware it was in (so what he didn't list the area's entire economic history when he made his, valid, point...). But, no you chose to blatantly misrepresent. It does you no favours.
Actually, it's rude. Cynical made a genuine point to you. Obviously him being a "tartan hothead" (what does that make you?) makes him deserving of a parody. Clever.
"We are all but specks of flesh whirling to destruction in this dance of death that we call life...doesn't move the argument on but sounds deep;-)"
Is that some kind of excuse for (anyone) being an obnoxious git?
Complain about this comment
#38 Reluctant-Expat
"As even the SNP now grudgingly concede, after decades of wrongly claiming the exact same as you, Scotland receives and spends its full share of North Sea tax revenues."
In a country our size that would take some doing Expat! I don't see any gold plated ornamental buildings!
I did see some decades of unemployment, weapons and wars though...
Complain about this comment
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
#41 Reluctant-Expat
"39. Brilliant! Well spotted!
Reducing speed limits on all A roads is indeed part of the government strategy to do maximum damage to the Scottish economy!
LOL!"
He was joking(ly referring to) the speed cuts, as they might as well have set it out as a said policy, as it will have such an impact as stated. (I cringed for you.)
Complain about this comment
#57 Reluctant-Expat
"In this 21st Century globalised society, I think it's time people grew up and perhaps even started to acknowledge that we are all part of one worldwide human society, instead of clinging to a variety of outdated and increasingly irrelevant groups flimsily based on just-as irrelevant historic, cultural, ethnic, racial and/or religious mindsets."
Good idea Expat. Why don't we all have a world wide state, where we all get a handout via a great big jumbo Barnett formula! You'd be OK with that?
Complain about this comment
#59 Reluctant-Expat
"So the SNP are going to do it the old way first...and then do it all over again the new way..."
Yes, being thorough is so slapdash!
Complain about this comment
#66 Expat
"He is going to look very silly trying his inevitable "Scotland is not receiving its rightful share" party-piece when the UK has recently spent half a trillion squids just on propping up our more spectacular corporate disasters.
You'll be able to hear the laughter coming from south of the border in Lerwick.
How many thousands of Scottish jobs were saved by those massive bail-outs and rescues that, alone, almost doubled the UK's national debt? Anyone?"
You still don't get the point I'm making do you. By fighting Scotland's corner, as a Scotish First minister should, he will do well with the SCOTTISH electorate. If they are laughing South of the border, he'll probably see that as a bonus.
It's simple. From a Scottish perspective, these are Labour, Westminster cuts. The SNP, Scotish Government is fighting to avoid them, on behalf of the Scottish People.
As our transatlantic cousins might say - "You do the math!" on how that will play out with the SCOTTISH electorate.
On the point of how Super Broon has saved all these jobs for Scotland - Good one!!
I think you might find the Scots may not quite see it that way in forthcoming elections.
Complain about this comment
#61 Fit Like?
"Oh, and aye_write, I wasn't being derogatory, I am fully aware that there are women's shinty teams out there too)."
Thank you for just checking!
Actually, I prefer male rugby players....
;-)
Complain about this comment
There is an interesting article in The Times about the Calman commission.
The times is reporting that one of their main recommendations will be borrowing powers for Holyrood.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/scotland/article6144126.ece
In another development Alex Salmond has announced the Scottish Investment Bank.
This is bringing together various Scottish enterprise fund, and is aimed at helping Scottish businesses.
Is this yet another brick or two knocked out of the UK wall.
Running the risk of being called "lad" by reluctant/am2 I would ask again.
As Scotland never shared in the good times, oil 150 dollars pre barrel etc, we only got our pocket money as usual, why should we end up paying for all Browns mistakes now that the Gordon Brown stuff has hit the fan?
Complain about this comment
#92 aye_write
Fair dos. RE has at least admitted that the UK is totally redundant.
Assuming that the world is one society - and in many ways it is. Do you think that RE sees himself as running it all himself? or will there be little bits left for the rest of us?
Complain about this comment
#95 aye_write
And if the way you treat RE is the way you show preference for male rugby players, I'll stick with shove-ha'penny!
Complain about this comment
#77 cynicalHighlander
Brilliant! I take it it will be fixed price!
Complain about this comment
Reluctant-expat wrote:
"In this 21st Century globalised society, I think it's time people grew up and perhaps even started to acknowledge that we are all part of one worldwide human society, instead of clinging to a variety of outdated and increasingly irrelevant groups flimsily based on just-as irrelevant historic, cultural, ethnic, racial and/or religious mindsets."
There is a Scottish Unionist who has written a book puting foward the very same argument. He let's himself down though by clinging to the anachronistic Union whilst decrying any calls for independence for Scotland as somehow the rants of xenophobes, fascists and bigots.
One word to the mods here:
Reluctant-expat is sailing very close to the wind as far as posting comments that are no more than aloof opinion framing insults and name calling.
In light of the fact that other posters have had comments moderated when they contained no abuse, it is about time that this poster was taken to task for this.
The blog is in danger of resembling The Scotsman site again.
Complain about this comment
Darling/Brown have created a disaster.
They have sold all the gold, they have spent all the oil revenues. They have spent too much and committed us to a mountain of PFI debt.
So what will Darling/Brown now do? They are going to impose cuts across the UK. They are going to increase taxes across the UK. And, they are going to give incentives to the oil companies to increase Scottish oil production. So, what is left in the North Sea they want to get out asap.
Freedom
Complain about this comment
bah, just let us go and there will be no problem about the barnett formula, you can keep barnett we will keep berwick
Complain about this comment
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
#98 handclapping
You've obviously never imagined what she could do with the ha'penny!
When she were a lass, a ha'penny would have bought a month's food for the whole village.
Complain about this comment
#97 oldnat
"Assuming that the world is one society - and in many ways it is. Do you think that RE sees himself as running it all himself? or will there be little bits left for the rest of us?"
He would explode - he can't be an Expat if there's only one state existing!
#98 handclapping
"And if the way you treat RE is the way you show preference for male rugby players, I'll stick with shove-ha'penny!"
Lol! If those (big, strong...) rugby players tried to score against my side, I'd treat them just as fairly too!
Complain about this comment
#101 hadrianswall: So what will Darling/Brown now do?
Does this answer your question: Royal Mint privatisation closer?
Personally I can't wait until they privatise the government...
Complain about this comment
#104 oldnat
When I were a lad, we would have learned our futhork but we hadn't invented corners yet.
She wouldn't dare! 8-)
Complain about this comment
#104 oldnat
"You've obviously never imagined what she could do with the ha'penny!
When she were a lass, a ha'penny would have bought a month's food for the whole village."
I had to do what it took to feed my family!
;-)
Complain about this comment
#40 Anglophone
Oh dear Oh dear...accusations of racism again?"
Anglophone, tut, tsk!
From you:
"tartan hotheads"
"McUKIP"
"Bravehearts"
Shamelessly duplicitous!
Complain about this comment
#107 handclapping
You learned six letters! We had to share one atween seven o' us!
Complain about this comment
107 handclapping
Are you working for Google!
;-)
Complain about this comment
#109 aye_write
I was about to accuse you of some bias against Anglophone - suggesting that he was duplicitous.
I was reminded of the glorious sentiments in the Pirates of Penzance song "For he is an Englishman", and thought Anglophone cando no wrong!
Then I remembered that he was a Brit, so all your charges ring true.
Complain about this comment
If Broonie has saved the world why does there have to be any pain at all?
Or is that a dumb question? That is an invitation for some stupid responses from some Team GB Labour hacks.
I expect that the budget will empty my pocket even further - nothing new there as every Nu Labour budget has progressively bled me dry.
I am still waiting for any benefit from these ill gotten gains. Now I here they want to squander even more on things that I dont want and never voted for.
Complain about this comment
Where the heck do i post this?? first in a while! i have just been with an editor from G20 film project but they waived the no smoking LAW for berlusconi whilst indoors. all were told it applys to them but not him!!! if it's one politician it's them all! they are better than us it would appear.
Complain about this comment
Brian
Are you sure the last para came out right? Did you not mean - Stand by further for a rebuttal from the Treasury/Scotland Office to the effect that Labour gained substantially from the relative largesse of the past decade and the SNP must, consequently, share in the pain.
#110 oldnat
Seven, seven! We were a bakers dozen and when our Da killed a wooly mamoth we weren't allowed down from the table till our plates were clean.
#111 aye_write
Who're Google? 8-)
And on that note, I must off to the quiet slumbers of the totally honest!
Complain about this comment
16 Anglophone.
In the first paragraph you explain to us that Scotland cannot be ''insulated'' from the recession. In the second paragraph you confirm that Northern Ireland is, at best an unequal union, at worst, hypocrisy.
As for the Barnett argument, First Minister Salmond has on many occassions called for:
''Scotland to raise and spend all it's own taxes, for England to raise and spend all it's own taxes''.
Given the fact that this was covered on national television, you'd think unionists who quote the Barnett Formula would grab this opportunity to dismantle the formula ?
Of course unionists have no argument here, as Scotlands tax raising would include oil.
Now let me ask again, would you allow Scotland to raise and spend all it's own taxes, including North Sea Oil ?
Wansanshoo.
Complain about this comment
Anyone recognise this word, which drifted across my consciousness this morning amidst the gloom of the BBC Breakfast News ?
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/kakistocracy
I think we should be told.
Complain about this comment
#117 Chiefy1724: :o) That's a great word! I suspect I'll be using it a great deal over the next few months.
Complain about this comment
#117 Chiefy1724
I think they must have been thinking of caccacracy also from the Greek, but the stem being "kakke", eta not epsilon.
Complain about this comment
"Should this turn into a further controversy, then stand by for the First Minister and his Finance Secretary to protest, loudly."
The UK Treasury cuts to be imposed on Scotland and Wales are already controversial and are being murmured against in Wales by the Labour/Plaid Cymru administration there as well as by the SNP government in Scotland, as BT might have considered mentioning, just in case anyone got the impression that the SNP is alone in identifying a problem and an injustice here.
It is being speculated in Wales that the Labour UK Budget could see the Assembly Government’s funding cut by as much as a billion pounds as Mr Darling orders the public sector to tighten its belt.
In his second Budget the Chancellor of the UK Exchequer is expected to announce 15 billion pounds in efficiency savings, far higher than the current 5 billion pound target.
The Welsh Assembly Government’s share of the savings would come to a billion pounds, despite personal pleas from First Minister Rhodri Morgan to Downing Street not to “choke off” economic recovery with excessive cut-backs.
Plaid Cymru MP Adam Price has commented that this is 10 billion pounds more in cuts than had been previously announced by the UK government in the pre-Budget Report, and will lead to swingeing cuts in Wales from public services, putting jobs, health and education at risk.
A Welsh Assembly Government spokeswoman has stated that its ministers had argued that any efficiencies should be “fair and proportionate” and that the Assembly Government has been driving efficiencies across devolved public services in Wales, adding that it is "well ahead of the game".
The Welsh and Scottish governments do indeed seem to be ahead of the game so far as efficiency savings are concerned. So there will be severe cutbacks imposed on Welsh and Scottish government expenditure in the recession while UK government expenditure is increased. And Scottish Labour is poised and waiting for its cue from London Labour to blame the SNP for any resulting belt-tightening or "broken promises" that might have to ensue as a result of the Scottish Government's capacity to mitigate the effects of the recession being reduced by the UK government in time for the next UK general election.
Complain about this comment
38 - Reluctant Ex-pat - You have seriously misunderstood the GERS report. You seem to think that it states that Scotland was awarded a proportion of North Sea Oil revenue. It does not. It state that IF a geographical share of revenue is included the balance would be "x", not that it was. That's one huge misleading error. Further, I note that you chose to quote the theoretical balance including long term capital expenditure. It is much more common to quote the current budget balance which state that: "In 2006-07, the estimated current budget balance for the public sector in Scotland was a deficit of £6.7 billion (6.4 per cent of GDP) excluding North Sea revenue, a deficit of £6.0 billion (5.5 per cent of GDP) including a per capita share of North Sea revenue or a surplus of £0.8 billion (0.7 per cent of GDP) including an estimated geographical share of North Sea revenue." Needless to say, the UK position as a whole is proportionality worse, regardless of which measure you chose.
Complain about this comment
OOh ! Chiefy , I love that word!
I ,too, will be peppering my contributions with kakistocracy!!
Whoda thunk we were living in a kakistocracy?
Complain about this comment
116 Wannashoo
You're misinterpreting me a bit...I was simply referring to the endlessly unanswered question on the fiscal status of the Scottish economy.
Perhaps a way of sorting this out would be to propose a transitional experiment i.e. rather than go for the SNP's current position of "Aye vote at referendum on the back of monstering the anticipated next Tory administration... then work out the details later"; why not carry out a test over five years, within the Union, in which all notionally Scottish tax revenue (including the 80% or so of oil revenues attributable to Scotland) is administered by the Scottish Executive/Government. A proportional deduction for essential non-devolved items such as defence could be made, then the SG would be free to spend entirely as it sees fit.
A five year period should be long enough to iron out any business cycle effects and/or fluctuations in oil prices. At the end of this period everyone should be in a better position to work out what's best and have a proper plebiscite. The Scottish electorate would be properly informed and the "swing" voters would make an informed choice based upon what it meant to them personally (the aye-write wingers would vote for independence come what may, even if it doomed Scotland to a future as a drizzly version of Cuba, which is of course their entirely respectable democratic right and not being criticized here) .
Voters in the rest of the country would see whether Scotland had been the source of the nations wealth all these years (vast helpings of humble-pie all round...once proud Surrey burghers begging for forgiveness etc) or whether Scotland had been a drain on resources. In that case of course we could have a referendum on whether we wanted Scotland to remain part of the Union...just kidding on the last bit...please don't roast me!
Joking aside I think that a test of this nature would smoke out the hard facts as far as they can ever be known and, just possibly, put this argument to bed once and for all. Then what would we do?
Complain about this comment
a transitional period is one of the best ideas i have heard for a long while .
well seeing you are not a politician or a journalist !!!
it sounds awfully like full fiscal autonomy to me , with the only risk being that an awful lot of people have a lot to loose ,in allowing this to happen. it would work fine till the politicians & the civil servants get their hands on the information
a lot of reputations could be minced by an experiment like this, i can think of a good few politicians and even more journalist , but as wee Wendy once said
BRING IT ON!
Sid
Complain about this comment
112 OldNat
He remains an Eeeiiiieeeiiiennnnglissshman
Try this on
I am the very model of a modern blogging Anglophone.
I've information on the government and fiscal figures by the tome.
I talk on Highland Clearances and people's love of Brigadoon.
I know the national history from Darien to Stone of Scone.
I know the land from Cambeltown to Pentland Firth.
I ask independence questions, on how much it all is really worth.
From time to time, I grant, that it fills me with a lot of mirth.
...mirth...mirth...mirth...aahhaaa!
I sit here at computer all middle-aged of ample girth.
(Chorus)
He sits at his computer all middle aged and amble girth. (Repeat)
I don't really mind if Scotland fells it has to finally go alone.
If only for a while that it would stifle all the endless moans.
On any of these matters I'm not a standard Union clone
I am the very model of a modern blogging Anglophone (retd.)
Complain about this comment
#123 Anglophone
As a theoretical concept that would be fine.
The problem, of course, would be that both sides of the independence autonomy argument would want a finger on the scales as to what counted as "Scottish" or "UK" income/expenditure.
Where would one find a natural arbitrator with the skills, knowledge and neutrality to decide on whether "the Olympics" should genuinely count as UK expenditure which it is classified as at the moment?
If the UK had properly audited accounts that would be a start, but that only proper procedures are only being applied in this financial year (though I expect there to be a comment buried in the footnotes to tomorrow's statement, that this has been postponed yet again).
Complain about this comment
Anglo 123
We can't trust the Unionist Govt. or the complicit media. Have you not been reading these blogs? It's not a fair game!
Re my previous post about Barnett. Yes I'm careful for what I wish for and it's not that!
The UK is worse than broke so how can you defend it? An independent Scotland is the only way and the only way is up. It couldn't do any worse with the positivity of the Scottish people vesting their own interests in the betterment of their own country.
Complain about this comment
Good article on the economic failure of the UK (and others) by Hamish McRae in the Indy
For those on both sides of the Independence debate, it may be that none of the economic figures from the past may be relevant, as we recover from a situation where our consumption has to be funded by our children/grandchildren.
Complain about this comment
79 Thomas Porter
"I would not be suprised if Expat and Anglophone were at an internet cafe together".
Damn...smoked out finally. Expat and I have been sitting at adjacent cubicles for months at a Bangkok internet cafe inventing vicious bile with which to smear the proud Sons of Alba who make up the moral and unimpeachable bastion that is the SNP.
Expat's outside now having a smoke before we share a few high octane expressos to really send the vitriol off the scale. I would gossip about him savagely while he's out of the room (I am English after all) but I think that someone may be listening. Blog me later and I'll tell you all about his &6%$£@!(*&&^ OK?
Next you'll be telling me that I am being held prisoner against my will by the Brigadier, without food or water until I have invented at least five slurs on the character of Alex Salmond. Please help...I want to be nice!
Complain about this comment
#123 Anglophone
What you're suggesting is It is effectively identical to the "Devolution Max" wanted by many LibDems but which their unLib unDem leadership won't put to the people. It has one very important exception from the Full Fiscal Autonomy wanted as a minimum by home rulers like me, in that power over issues like defence and foreign representation would still be reserved by undemocratic Westmidden giving the English government a permanent controlling say over matters like renewal of Trident.
Full Fiscal Autonomy would put the boot on the other foot and allow the component nations of the UK to agree on such issues based on the lowest common denominator [sorry to bring maths back!] of what they wished to spend.
In practice, if the referendum question actually asked is a plain yes or no to independence, then when it is won the interim arrangements while the "divorce" takes place will de facto have to be one or the other.
Full Fiscal Autonomy just might result in a confederal UK going forward from where we are now. Devolution Max will simply confirm that the nations do not all want the same thing, ensuring the break-up of the UK is quicker rather than slower. Given your previous support of the Westmidden model at all costs, I'm guessing you'd prefer the latter rather than to see all four "home" nations moving toward real democracy.
Post or reactive moderation for all except CBeebies, please!
Complain about this comment
I'm sick of hearing about Scotland and sick of hearing Scottish accents on my radio and TV.
This falsely named "United" Kingdom has exposed the congenital Anglophobia within our "fellow Brits".
The English are officially 3rd class citizens in this political artifice, the "United" Kingdom. Our young women were not entitled to cervical screening until aged 25 whereas other "British" women are eligible at 20 years. This is just one in a long list of dozens of disadvantages heaped upon the English in the blatant apartheid system brought in by Labour (not that the Tories will do anything to reverse it).
Scots and Welsh were never disadvantaged compared to the English before devolution. Any Scot whining about the poll tax needs reminding that it was Scottish politicians begging for it to be introduced that caused it to be rushed in and botched. As in all things Scottish politicians messed up.
The Barnett Formula is just the tip of the iceberg. Jobs are pouring out of England into Scotland, the latest being the moving of HM Revenue and Customs bank account from the Bank of England to the RBS, the most discredited bank in Europe.
The UK has had its day. We need an English Parliament focusing solely on England's needs.
Complain about this comment
126 OldNat
I'm puzzled by this Olympic thing. Granted it is being held in London because there simply isn't another city in these Isles with the international profile to attract it. Sorry to say this but you only have to reflect on the doomed persistence of Manchester.
Now if this was just an "English" event then the tickets would only be on sale in England surely. Although the details of the ticket ballot remain to be seen, I am led to believe that they will be on sale across the whole of the UK and, in order to balance out the geographical discrepancy, a uniform train fare from any point in the country will apply.
The only mystery in my mind is why they feel the need to construct a purpose built mountain-biking course in Essex. That is an event that surely could have been devolved a little more?
Agreed... the chances of finding a mutually acceptable auditor for the tax experiment would be tricky, but not a reason not to try don't you think.
Complain about this comment
Anglo
The SNP is only a vehicle for independence and Alex Salmond is the driver. The indy argument is bigger than that. Please stop insisting that it's all about the politics. We want a fresh new approach and at the moment the SNP is the only party offering an opportunity to change.
Complain about this comment
# 123 Anglophone
I think you are missing the point, we don't want a financial experiment within the Uk, we want independence to run our country in the way we see fit. That is the goal of the SNP and that is what we are aiming for; everything else we are discussing on this blog is just the 'meat in the sandwich'.
Complain about this comment
130 Brownedov
I was thinking of something a little less politically charged. A simple experiment inside the status quo. It would inevitably be controversial and cause all sorts of rows over what is and what isn't included.
Frankly, if you have to rule certain projects/expenditures in or out of such an equation then over the long run it's probably too close to call and the electorate can draw their own conclusions
Complain about this comment
Assuming I can get this html gubbins to workl -
This [On the IMF's apparent climbdown from its 13.4 percent GBP137 billion figure announced yesterday to a revised 9.1 oercent estimate] is interesting.
Complain about this comment
#131 StephenGash
"We need an English Parliament focusing solely on England's needs."
I'm sure you're right there.
The rest of of your comment is pure bile and would be better expressed on the Nick Robinson threads, where you'll find some fellow travellers.
Given good will, there might just still be a few economies of scale in have a joint defence force and foreign representation but 12 years of NuLab and a decade of asymmetric devolution have diminished that commodity to something approaching zero [oops - maths again, I had better shut up for a while].
Post or reactive moderation for all except CBeebies, please!
Complain about this comment
128 OldNat
The national debt as a proportion of GDP of the UK has certainly risen dramatically in recent months thanks to the accumulated hubris of one Gordon Brown. It still remains healthier than say Italy, France, Japan or Germany (still paying for reunification).
We shall certainly be paying for all the alka-seltzer to this massive national hangover for many years but to suggest that the country is bust is plain wrong (temporarilly embarrassed possibly?).
It's sad that papers like the Independent have to relentlessly plug this downbeat line...it's like the Daily Express's horrific alta-ego. Commentators like this depress me profoundly because they simply "commentate". They occupy that netherworld where the Lib-Dems meets the onanistic wing of the Labour Party...a world where everything is contemptibly wrong and everyone's a villain and in which they cannot ever, ever supply a coherent policy alternative.
Complain about this comment
#128 oldnat
I am struck by the Scottish dimension of the punch line of your referenced article - Admitting we have failed is a necessary precondition to fixing things in the future.
Have you noticed Global giving any indication of such an untermensch thought? Calman? Any Unionist?
Still a long way to go, I'm afraid.
Complain about this comment
134 GedGuy2
The thing is, I doubt that you have much of chance in a referendum when you're asking ordinary people to stare down the barrel of a gun and join you in your noble crusade.
If what you say about Scotland's economic status is correct, then an experiment would demonstrate this and you would have no difficulty in getting a landslide Aye vote from the electorate. Similarly the whole population would have made an informed decision and would accept the consequences good or bad moving forwards.
The other possibility is that you rush through the referundum on the "look jock it's they Tories agin" ticket. There are then a whole raft of economic surprises for which the electorate will hold the SNP responsible, probably causing the party to break up.
As people use the "divorce" analogy a lot, the independence debate is divided by those who would walk out of a desperately unhappy relationship and live in a council flat rather put up with things another minute. Others may not like their spouse but prefer to stick around for the sake of house, cars and credit cards.
It's those people that you need to convince.
Complain about this comment
131 StephenGash
I agree you do need an English Parliament and please don't go making the same mistake as us by having a devolved parliament. It just doesn't work. Go the whole hog feel free.
Complain about this comment
#138 Brownedov
Fascinating use of onanistic; which of the three meanings had you in mind?
I thought at first you had intended omphalosceptic but if you pictured the Biblical meaning of coitus interruptus then that is a superb piece of English writing.
Complain about this comment
#142
Sorry; Anglophone not Brownedov. Mea culpa!
Complain about this comment
#114 jedirnbru -
Diplomatic immunity? I doubt they'd have any legal redress against Berlusconi if he did breach the smoking ban therefore, quite literally as you say, it applies to them but not to him.
There's a minor issue around dimplomatioc etiquette and following the commonly observed behaviours and protocols in the country you're visiting but . . . t's Berlusconi . . .
Complain about this comment
#135 Anglophone
"I was thinking of something a little less politically charged. A simple experiment inside the status quo."
But the status quo is that undemocratic, unreformed Westmidden has the final say over everything thanks to the permanent built-in majority of MPs for English constituencies. The fact that voters in England can't agree to reform the system is doubtless a cause for regret for many of them but should not be a millstone around the necks of the other "home" nations.
Oldnat's #126 re the Olympic's is a case in point where the undemocratic unionist government have determined a level of subsidy entirely by themselves, at the expense of charities throughout the four "home" nations.
By all means promote your "Devolution Max" experiment, which may find some favour in England, but I suspect the reaction elsewhere in the UK will be unfavourable, and it will not even satisfy those in England who want a measure of home rule.
Post or reactive moderation for all except CBeebies, please!
Complain about this comment
# 137. At 11:28am on 22 Apr 2009, Brownedov wrote: "The rest of of your comment is pure bile"
The bile is that belched at the English by this revolting "Celtic" cabal in Westminster.
Gordon Brown is presently lying to parliament that the Barnett Formula is based on need. Joel Barnett who designed this formula has expressly said that this is NOT the case and that the Barnett Formula should be replaced by a needs based system.
Before accusing me of producing bile, refute my statements.
Complain about this comment
#142 handclapping
"#138 Brownedov ... Fascinating use of onanistic"
Agreed, but it wisnae me, guv. I think you'll find it was Anglophone's #138.
Post or reactive moderation for all except CBeebies, please!
Complain about this comment
#143 handclapping
Apology graciously accepted.
Post or reactive moderation for all except CBeebies, please!
Complain about this comment
#146 StephenGash
"The bile is that belched at the English by this revolting "Celtic" cabal in Westminster."
If you replaced Celtic with NuLab, I'd agree with you 100%. The fault lies in the hands of the voters in 286 constituencies in England who returned MPs from that wing of the unionist party in 2005 not with the 40 in Scotland and 29 in Wales who were equally daft.
That the movement for home rule and democracy amongst voters in England is not larger can not fairly be blamed on those outwith that nation.
Post or reactive moderation for all except CBeebies, please!
Complain about this comment
#146 StephenGash -
"revolting"
"[S]ick of hearing Scottish accents on my radio and TV"
"Any Scot whining about the poll tax"
"As in all things Scottish politicians messed up"
For me, it's not so much your content so much as your tone and language that comes across as bilious.
Have a look at the extracts I've quoted - do you honestly think they belong in a sensible, adult political debate?
If you do, well, at least we know which 'category' of poster you beong in.
Complain about this comment
142 Handclapping
I was alluding of course to the biblical Sin of Onan, in order to get around the mods, a refer to the "well meaning but confused" wing of the Labour Party. We've talked about merchant bankers so much recently that the old metaphor has worn out.
I had a friend who owned a parrot called Onan...oh work it out for yourself!
Complain about this comment
#151 Anglophone
Pity; the picture of shafting (us) to no purpose would have been rather fine, but, as you intended it, it was mere abuse (pun intended).
Messy eaters aren't they.
Complain about this comment
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
#123 Anglophone
(the aye-write wingers would vote for independence come what may, even if it doomed Scotland to a future as a drizzly version of Cuba, which is of course their entirely respectable democratic right and not being criticized here)
You've done exceedingly well on this blog, Anglophone. You realise you are in fact arguing for independence.
Well done.
(I was a little bit proud ;-)
Complain about this comment
#132 Anglophone
I think you'll find that the tickets are on sale world wide!
I agree that no other city in the UK is large enough to host the Olympics.
However, the reason for these bids being put forward is a mixture of "prestige" and (usually mistaken) expectation of an enhanced revenue stream.
I don't have a problem, in principle, with the UK having made the decision to use public money to support the Games. Such decisions are made for other economic regions. However, the income will accrue to London, consequently, the expenditure should be allocated there as well.
It's this kind of issue that would need to be dealt with if an appropriate modelling of the different economies.
Incidentally, Cornish people, yet again, are being taxed to pay for the Olympics - there will be no benefit to Cornwall.
England is so vastly over centralised, and your regions have so little clout, that the English periphery is much more deprived of resources than the other nations of the UK. That, however, is a problem for the English to solve - starting with better accounting and accountability at Westminster would be a good start.
Complain about this comment
#123 Anglophone
Perhaps it's a good idea. I'd vote "Aye" as you kindly put it.
But the fact that it hasn't been done up 'til now tells us what we need to know, I think.
Complain about this comment
# 140 Anglophone
The SNP have been trying for independence long before there were any concerns over finances. I suspect that we would still want our independence if our only source of income was the selling of peat. I agree with you that there is a large portion of the Scottish voting population that still needs to be convinced. I've said before on these blogs that I will stand by whatever result that the Scottish voters decide, in a referendum. I have no wish to lead them to the ballot box at the point of a gun. I am dead against any violence to get independence and would happily report anyone who had those types of ideas to the police. I believe in the democratic process and, therefore, as stated earlier, I would stand by the Scottish voters whatever they decide.
Complain about this comment
#131, #146
Okay, let's tear them to shreds, one by one.
That's the point of devolution (I do know it does escape the grasp of most English for the simple reason they don't make any effort to understand it). Each parliament makes its own priorities. It just so happens that the Scottish and Welsh ones decided that cervical screening was a priority for young women, whereas the Westminster one didn't. That's not the fault of either the Scots or the Welsh. If you want that priority to change at Westminster, vote for something other than NuLab.
Whilst it's no doubt true George Younger asked Maggie to bring forward the introduction of the poll tax in Scotland first, and there's no denying that he was both Scottish and a MP, the gripe Scots had is quite simply as to whether he truly had a democratic mandate to do so. Most Scots would say no, hence the desire for devolution. Your blanket bigotry against all things Scottish doesn't deserve a response.
Well, RBS is hardly an example of English jobs moving to Scotland, since it's Scottish in name only. The UK government owns the lion's share of RBS and moving a government department's bank account to what is effectively a government bank is simply to streamline admin.
Few here will argue with that. It's just unfortunate that many south of the border will be like you, resorting to bile, insults and, ultimately, violence against those you mistakenly believe to be the enemy. Many of us share your goal of an independent English parliament, your bile would be better directed elsewhere.
Complain about this comment
#132
Since you refute the example of the London Olympics (an English sounding event if ever there was one) and bring up the subject of transport, how about the London Underground and London Buses? The Department of Transport throws a hefty subsidy towards these and it counts as UK spending. Now, I live over 400 miles from the nearest tube stop. So why should this subsidy be counted against spending per head in Scotland.
And transport is just one example. There are more, many of them hidden (defence is another good example).
Complain about this comment
Thanks for confronting gash's gash. I am busy at present so couldn't do my bit.
Saor Alba!
Free in 2010!
Scotland forever!
Complain about this comment
View these comments in RSS