Nationalists need new narrative
Narrative matters in politics.
Political parties seeking success will stress facts and issues which bolster their world view, thus inviting the voters to conclude that they alone offer solutions.
Sometimes those facts and issues will present themselves readily.
Sometimes they will have to be assembled. Sometimes they will run stubbornly counter to the party's vision, despite every effort. In those latter circumstances, the party will inevitably fail.
In the early 1980s, the SDP in alliance with the Liberals drove a narrative which said that Labour was too extreme to present a credible alternative to the Tories.
In the 1983 election, they came close to overtaking Labour as a consequence.
At the present time on the UK stage, the Tories have been telling a story of "broken Britain", a picture of economic but more commonly social fragmentation.
This narrative is designed to depict them as, uniquely, offering cohesion.
In Scotland, one can currently see the development of another narrative, used by Labour but also by those other parties which espouse the Union.
Scotland, it is said, is unable on her own to cope with the local impact of global recession.
That, it is said, was true with regard to the banks and is now true of the Dunfermline building society.
For example, Iain Gray, Labour's leader at Holyrood, has welcomed the sale of the positive elements of the Dunfermline society to the Nationwide.
He voices delight at the assistance this will afford to staff and savers.
Then he goes on to note: "The Treasury has taken on £1bn in toxic assets, something that the Scottish Government would not have been able to do."
Labour's narrative with regard to independence has shifted over the decades.
It was formerly easy to caricature them as arguing that Scotland was simply "too wee and too poor" to go it alone.
Understandably, that caricature prompted modification. It was too rude, too ugly.
Scotland, it was then said, could become independent - but should, on balance, choose not to do so.
Now the story has been refined once more in the light of the economic crisis.
Here, it is important to distinguish between the financial steps taken by the UK Government - and the political narrative built upon those steps.
There is continuing dispute over the fundamentals.
For example, there are those who argue that both HBOS and Dunfermline could have been maintained as Scottish institutions.
Against that, UK ministers insist they took the steps necessary to protect jobs, savers and investors.
They are adamant that the various problems were so deep-rooted that there was no alternative.
It is important to reflect that this matters less when it comes to the political narrative which is being assembled - and the challenge this presents to Alex Salmond.
One might argue that the narrative contains self-fulfilling claims: that Scotland's financial institutions failed because no credible rescue was mounted.
However, that is to disregard the impact of the narrative itself.
Labour ministers will repeatedly stress - from now to the UK election, from then to the Holyrood election - that Scotland's financial institutions had to be rescued by UK clout, that SNP ministers were peripheral.
You can argue that this is simple truth. You can argue that it ignores key elements. You can say it is a fact, you can say it is part fairy tale.
But, either way, it is a powerful story to tell.
As I have argued before, the SNP now requires to generate a new narrative of Nationalism, one that addresses the present economic conditions, one that relies less upon the previously proclaimed "arc of prosperity".
But then I suspect Alex Salmond already knows that.
I'm 
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Spoken like a true Brit.
Come on Scotland you can do it! It's better to be poor and free than to live on charity.
Home rule for England.
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A good piece Brian.
There is a strange groupthink in journalistic circles, exhibited here, which adopts the Bill Jamieson HBoS story - the idea that before the recent takeover by Lloyds, HBoS was a proud, ancient, Scottish company.
The honest truth, surely, is that the Bank of Scotland was taken over by the Halifax several years ago, and at that point became no more Scottish than the NatWest. In truth, since TSB has its roots in Scotland, if anything the bank has become more Scottish rather than less.
There seems a strange insistence among Scottish journalists to paint the recent demise of HBoS as being the end of the Scottish story; in truth the end came in 2001, and the rest is just a mixture of hubris and political spin.
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yes brian, no matter where you stand politically all party's need to be able to move with the times. the slogans and mantra's of last year no longer apply .
the Tory's started this disaster when they started selling off all the country's assets and are obviously hoping we will forget that bit.
brown & labour have "i will do whatever it takes" copyright pending. every westminster labour spokesman now has that in every speech they make.
the lib dems are still struggling to get down of their fence.
and the snp are being uncharacteristically slow.
meanwhile brown's scorched earth policy in Scotland continues unabated.
labour ministers of course will never discuss who caused the situation we find our selves in "we are relaxed with people being rich " one of them said at the beginning of this disastrous journey
we did not have a light touch of regulation what we had was GREED & look after no.1
the financial sector did exactly what they were told to do by new labour - get out there and make a packet.
Now that they have all been found Out New labour has the basin and the towels out!
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I don't know how any self-respecting Scot could watch this disgraceful and spiteful sell-off of Dunfermline, the UK government and Treasury's despicable treatment of an independent Scottish institution and still live the lie that we are better off as part of this union.
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I'd say Labour needs a "new narrative" more than the SNP. Labour's current narrative of: "We've been caught again lining our own pockets using taxpayer's cash but since we're the poltical elite we won't be charged with it" is starting to wear a bit thin. After all, we've heard it so many times. Maybe they could replace it with a: "We buy 'adult' movies' with your money" narrartive? Maybe that will play better for them.
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You're not far wrong here Brian. The SNP also need to sharpen up their offensive, it's too lax at present and allows opposition parties to have their 'sound bites' to be repeated too often.
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Absolute rubbish.
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"Labour ministers will repeatedly stress - from now to the UK election, from then to the Holyrood election - that Scotland's financial institutions had to be rescued by UK clout, that SNP ministers were peripheral."
Brian, you could also be arguing that Capn. Darling's shifty evasiveness and Murphy's woodenness over the facts make a stark contrast with Faulds' and Salmond's openness over the situation remove all credibility from NuLab, demonstrate how pathetic Duff Gordon's regulatory regime has been and shows how "hands-off" they are with their officials.
Not sure it's the SNP who need to learn the lessons over this - NuLab have handed them an electoral open goal.
Post or reactive moderation for all except CBeebies, please!
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Let's face it nobody really knows how Scotland would have weathered the financial crisis if it had been independent.
However what is really disgusting is watching Iain Gray and his "Scottish"??? Labour cronies gleefully watching the demise of yet another Scottish financial institution.
It's so obvious that lack of financial scrutiny by Gordon Brown's brainchild, the FSA is fundamentally at the root of the UK's banking problems. The blame for this crisis will be laid at Labours door.
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Massive political fallout over the Dunfermline, so much so that we again see a 'Blog Woosh'.
What is a 'Blog woosh' you ask?
Well, whenever a subject get's so uncomfortable for our journalists then there is a clear attempt at moving the debate on - WHOOSH !!, the thread containing uncomfortable comments is replaced with a new blog subject.
This time the attempt is to try to criticise/scrutinise the SNP over something called 'narrative'.
The BBC and Labour were caught completely off guard by Jim Faulds yesterday. So much so that the the announcement that the Nationwide is to step in and buy out the Dunfermline was leaked to the son of the Labour peer and BBC correspondent Robert Peston in tiem for this mornings broadcasts.
A BBC corerspondent was despatched to Dunfermline in order to interview people and drive the 'Saving Jobs' message - it didn't work.
Gordon Brown himself has been forced to issue statements attacking the society's board. John McFall has issuede statements attacking Alex Salmond and suggesting that the Scottish government couldn't afford to help.
Too stupid, too poor - how's that for narrative Brian?
This building society needed 20 - 30 million in order to access the liquidation fund. The FSA suggested 30 - 40 just to be safe, so why is no one questioning Darling over his 60 - 100 million figure.
This thing stinks, the cat is out of the bag - let's watch our so called journalists in action.
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brian , it takes kirk long enough to moderate these days , without you lot forgetting to change your clocks! get with it man.
looking forward to Wednesday's game
NO TO TEAM GB.
Sid
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Another un-biased piece then Brian?
Your post completely fails to point out that the SNP and Scotlands Government DID have the "financial clout" to provide a loan to the DBS... It was scuppered by the UK Treasury and Nu-Labour. The Scottish government were willing to put up the £25 Million but the Nu-Lab refused them the right.
It is not a case of Scotland being 'Too Wee' to cope... It is a case of Scotland having it's hands tied behind its' back by London so that 'those pesky rebels up north' do not get ideas above their station.
Everyone can see that the Scottish Government are fighting for Scottish interests and it is showing up the London control freakery for what it is. I can't wait for the next Scottish elections.
Saor Alba.
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I also expect the delays to increase on this blog to around 4 hours.
A message to journalists in Scotland:
The nation is being asset stripped, our resources are being squandered our electoral system is open to abuse and you lot sit, watch and prevaricate.
Is there not one amongst you who can sense the building anger in Scotland?
Previous solid Labour voters are moving to the SNP in disgust, these aren't your hard line fundamental nationalists.
Decisions such as the Dunfermline are crying out for investigation and scrutiny. The media are supposed to reflect the feeling of the electorate, that is our release valve - we need to hear our concerns being articulated by those paid to do so.
This 'narrative' nonsense will not do, I'm compelled to pay for this and I DEMAND proper journalism.
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There is no need to rewrite the independence argument.
Intelligent people already clearly understand that these institutions failed because of Scotland's membership of the union.
It was the malign influence of the City and the Treasury coupled with the weak and ineffective regulation from the FSA and BoE that were the main causes of failure. But, added to that has to be the influence, encouragement and general acceptance of greed as a good thing by Gordon Brown and Alastair Darling.
Their actions resulted in record household debt, record house prices, a record trade deficit and record underinvestment in new companies.
So - the question we have to ask ourselves is whether an independent Scotland would have ended up in this same appalling situation?
I like to think that in that situation given our economy would have been more balanced and perhaps more akin to that of Norway then we would not now be in the mess created for us by Westminster and the City.
For example - RBS and HBOS would have been smaller and more regionally orientated working with the Scottish Govt and Scottish industry to develop the Scottish economy.
Labour ministers can if they wish repeatedly stress that Scotland's financial institutions had to be rescued by "UK clout" but that's a dangerous game because we know, and they know that know, that that's only just just because it was the UK that caused the problems in the first place.
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Brian: "You can say it is a fact, you can say it is part fairy tale."
It's a nightmare.
Anything Scottish is a potential obstacle for the future of the Union.
Everything being British is better.
That's the plan, there's the Labour narrative.
There only group of people who can do anything about it, is you, the Scots.
Tell everyone.
In doubt?
Read the Realm of Scotland website.
Watch BBC Alba's "Diomhair" and C4 Scottish Eye's "Macrae" documentaries (YouTube).
I'm afraid you are dealing with very determined, committed and ruthless opponents to Scotland, in the name of the Union.
The brolly brigader Westminster power hungry ruling elite have been ruthless practically across the globe throughout history. Why would they be any different to Scotland?
The Scottish electorate is largely unaware of much of all this (we have but a fraction of the media coverage). But it's not the made up rantings of a nationalist.
Sign the independence referendum register.
http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/let-scotland-decide.html
(Without majority power, we even have to force the Unionist parties at Holyrood to pass and effectively grant the referendum bill. To do this we must demonstrate to the UN there is support for it in Scotland. We have already demonstrated to them we satisfy their criteria for being a nation, and according the UN Charter, nations have a right to self govern, if they desire - how do you think we got devolution? Not through Labour's goodwill!)
Salvage Scotland.
Unless you'd rather be British, because Gordon Brown doesn't think you can be both.
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It doesn't need much a new narrative to respond to one which proclaims that you should vote for a Party that relies solely on London to defend voters from their inevitable incompetence.
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No1 englanddown
What a load of piffle! It's the taxpayers that are paying on borrowed debt, not little england. Home rule for england, I hope so!
The same Union journalistic nonsense. Who knows what an independent Scotland would have done. Speculation as fact - you've been reading too many red tops, Brian! We would have had an oil fund for a start and I presume other investments for our country - I can speculate too! Fed up with Scots doing our country down. I'm sure the SNP are keeping all their cards close to their chests until the appropriate time comes whereas the Unionists and complicit media will find things more difficult as they are trying everything at the moment. The Labour narrative is to do Scotland no favours so Union and party first. The SNP is Scotland and her people first.
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I'm sick of Westminster telling us what to do and how we should run our country. It is not Scotland's fault that those institutions failed - they failed because of greedy and incompetent bankers. It's time for independence NOW.
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Labour Scots are intent on doing "whatever it takes" to strip Scotland of power and identity in their attempt to kill off the SNP and ensure there are enough Scots Labour MPs to secure a Westminster majority. The problem for the SNP is how to flag this up without sounding like (or being labelled as) conspiracy theorists. The SNP narrative needs to include highlighting that New Labour (as an extension of Thatcherism) got us into this mess, and at the same time tell the voters how independence can win us a better, more stable future. In some ways there's an opportunity here for the SNP. They no longer need tell us of a rich independent Scotland, a the economic bar has been lowered. They need to tell us of a new direction, a new beginning -- we're already at the economic bottom, so the only way is up.
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Maybe you and the rest of the treacherous Unionist media could help the SNP write a new narrative and actually give independence a fair hearing for once.
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#1 englandrise
"Spoken like a true Brit"
Sadly, you are absolutely correct.
Except even without oil, 2005 figures show Scotland would be as prosperous as Finland or Germany. I wonder if a repeat of the study would now say we would be poor?
Anyway, far from Britain being the saviour of Scotland (anyone notice us riding out the storm so much better than non-neighbour governed European neighbours?), Britain is the ruin of Scotland.
It's Britain Brown wants. That's where is ego-led hubristic personality, he thinks, can gain the prestige, the world respect, the power and the influence he so yearns for - well, for him, that's unravelling.
He doesn't want Scotland at all, except to complete the island land mass. To make "his" country bigger, like a sad old man and his sports car. In fact the less Scottish Scotland is the better.
The credit crunch could be the ruin of Scotland, but not because of the credit crunch itself (unlike in England - Brown knows this), but because Brown and Darling will secure to manipulate to minimise the fortunes of any perceived Scottish financial institution as much as it is in their power to do so, and they have considerable power, unlike Alex Salmond.
Over the Dunfermline, either chancellor Darling or Jim Foulds from the building society was lying. I ask you to examine their motives. Darling's I've mentioned. But Fauld's, what did he seek to gain? The game is already over for him, the Labour Government is breaking up and selling off the Dunfermline Building Society from under him. He has no incentive to hold his tongue anymore.
It is no conspiracy theory, it's not being done in secret. It's being done right in front of our noses!
We can have Scottish banks and banking again, but not in the Union.
We will have to get out of this Union to have any Scottish banking sector left. Brown will only help a "Scottish" bank if he can make it more British. He would like all Scottish banks to be seen not as Scottish but British. His power lies not with Scotland (he doesn't think we're as grand as his illusions), but with Britain.
Maybe some of you like Britain too. Well, I'd ask you, think of the price you're paying for it - to have what faint impression there is of Scotland to be slowly scrubbed off the map.
If you are happy with that, then that is your right, you may vote accordingly. But I don't think it is the right thing to do. I do not want so quickly to wash all my Scottishness away.
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The Labour Party will find it gey difficult to represent the UK as a bastion of financial strength.
Labour has doubled the UK National Debt, debt built up over three centuries of events like world wars.
Next years UK fiscal deficit could be £200 billion (£200,000,000,000), with more eye watering ones in future.
You can argue, that this is not all down to them, but it is almost worth hoping for the re-election of Labour at Westminster, just so that it is they, who have responsibility, when the consequences of this tidal wave of debt overwhelm us. The slashing of public expenditure, the avalanche of P45'S, pension reductions, devalued currency, stagflation, and god knows what else.
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Brian
I can recommend Calgacus speech to the Caledonians from Tacitus, however I think the phrase most apposite, to misquote, is "they leave a wasteland and they call us British.".
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Brian
"Labour ministers will repeatedly stress - from now to the UK election, from then to the Holyrood election - that Scotland's financial institutions had to be rescued by UK clout, that SNP ministers were peripheral."
SNP ministers will repeatedly stress - from now to the UK election, from then to the Holyrood election - that Barclays financial institutions had to be rescued by Arab cash, that Labour ministers were peripheral. ?
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It's going to be tough for the SNP to redefine their economic message in light of current events, where small countries are taking worse hits than the big ones. Until recently, they still were peddling the nonsense of 'small nimble countries' like Ireland and Iceland (really corporate bordellos).
The best strategy would be to advocate a 100% Norway-style economy (that includes leaving the EU). Maybe even an admission that if Scotland had become independent and followed the path set by Ireland and Iceland, it would have fallen into similar difficulties.
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To all those who want your Union, this is how you keep it...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zO5leiwEiTM
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Brian according to the majority of newspapers on the stands (The Hootsmon stands out as the usual exception) the narrative is that Brown and Darling killed the rescue deal for the Dunfy and that £30 million to £50 million was all that was needed to put it back on its legs; of which Salmond had identified £25 million from within the Scottish Government's finances.
So Brown killed the Dunfermilne for the sake of £5 million when he has happily lined the pockets of his pals at Lloyds, Barclays, etc. to the tune of over £100 billion and paid off 'Fred the Shred' to stay schtuum about where the financial bodies are buried!
Maybe the SNP taking control of Dundee has addled your mind a bit but that is no excuse for falling for Labour spin over this, Calman and all Labour's nest lining.
Salmond does not need to say a thing; the narrative is we all know what a complete pig's ear Brown is making of Scotland.
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Wee Scamp
Exactly, well said my dear fellow Scot. Now hop aboard the good ship Indy!
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Ian Gray was obviously so exercised by the DBS collapse that (According to deanthetoryboy on another thread) he had time to attend a meeting in Bannockburn about a bye-election in which Labour had yet to put forward a candidate
Not that I'm saying there was much he could have done but still - shows where his priorities lie. Party first - voters, communities, issues second, by a long way.
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Brian unusually I find little of merit in your post today. Logically if we are part of a union that allows these threats to our institutions to happen, then that surely is a damning indictment of that union. It is certainly not as our unionist countrymen would have us believe a reason for remaining in the union nor is it a reason against independence.
I am reminded of the battered wife who repeatedly returns to an abusive partner, this despite what everyone else can see it for what it is a damaging and damaged relationship. It not an exact analogue but it is worryingly close to this countries relationship with the union.
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What on earth is going on here, it is early afternoon and its taking over an hour and a half for posts to be moderated
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We have yet to feel the full impact of the "spend now, pay later" economic timebomb that Labour have been setting up for Scotland (and the rest of the British Isles) over the years.
Such recklessness has never been seen before in the western world.
Take, for example, the PFI/PPP disaster, which we will be reaping the benefits of over the next 30 or so years.
In fact, even now, PFI/PPP funds are in big trouble, as they no longer have sufficient funds to cover new projects.
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Would these institutions have been allowed to overreach themselves in the way they did if this awful government had fulfilled its obligations to the British people and properly regulated them ? Whether an independent Scottish government would have failed so miserably to look after the economy is anybody's guess but it's hard to believe that, short of a Labour administration being in power, any half efficient administration could have been as incompetent as the government now in power in Westminster.
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"Labour ministers will repeatedly stress - from now to the UK election, from then to the Holyrood election - that Scotland's financial institutions had to be rescued by UK clout, that SNP ministers were peripheral...it is a powerful story to tell."
Which says that the more Scotland is shown to be a beggar nation the better it is for the Labour Party. Or in other words, Scottish failures and especially financial failures are good news for Labour in Scotland.
I've always been suspicious about the haste with which HBOS was offered on a plate to Lloyds. HBOS is the only bank which the Goverment wanted destroyed rather rescued even though they had to subsequently bail out the purchaser Lloyds with the same amount of cash with which they'd have had to use to bail out HBOS if it had still been independent. The cash bailout was the same but HBOS was gone.
And now the Dunfermline. Jim Faulds' complaint on the Politics Show was that the Treasury would not speak to the Dunfermline board. Since the PM Gordon Brown spent ten years in the Treasury and the current Chancellor is Alistair Darling it is very strange that the two most powerful men in the UK Government who have constituencies which either neighbour Dunfermline or are just across the Forth simply took absolutely no interest in what was happening there.
I think it is a very dangerous situation to be in when the party in power in London which controls the economy benefits electorally from economic failure in Scotland.
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It is not often that I agree with you Brian, but looking behind this posting of yours I tend to agree with you. The problem, of course, with the SNP getting suitable soundbites (I'm sure there are plenty out there) is the Union media are making it difficult for the SNP to get their case over. I don't disagree with you about its lack of soundbites, as I am sure that if the SNP came out with some cracking soundbites the media would jump at it. They love that type of thing. The SNP is going to have to, not only fight harder to get their point of view over but keep it up for ever, within the Union. It is a hard task ahead of them and they will have to rise to this soundbite assualt from Labour of slip by the wayside.
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How about this for a narrative.
Nationwide is to be paid GBP1,600,000,000, yes that's 1.6 billion, by the Treasury to take over Dunfermiline Building Society! (source FT)
What was wrong in that case with merging it with the Scottish BS from Edinburgh? Why an English BS? Where was Darling in protecting jobs in the financial industry in Scotland?
Talk about asset stripping.
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From where I'm sitting (a small village in north-central Wales) the Dunfermline debacle has little to do with economics and a hell of a lot to do with politics. Think less of 'toxic debts' and focus more on a certain referendum that will soon be held in Scotland.
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The day after a major Scottish financial institution has just been sold down the river by traitorous Labour politicians the best BBC's Scotland's top political pundits can come with is this utter pap?
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I see Scottish & Southern are down 3%. Bet it's all the investors getting panic over the thought that they'll be next as there is a "Scottish" in their moniker.
They made a wasteland and called us British!
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Brian, that nonsense has to be a deliberate provocation surely?
It is the lying Labour Brit-Nats that cannot get their story straight, why should the SNP even seek to change their message in response?
The SNP keep calmly putting forward the benefits that independence will bring ... meanwhile Labour cannot decide if we can or we cannae, they just know we shouldnae: mostly as Gordon Brown couldn't be England's PM if we did!
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How can you tell E.T. is a labour supporter?
Because he looks like one.
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Brian
Another narrative.
Shir Shaun will not be back. To pay back Labour's borrowing, the standard rate of tax will be 40%, the higher rate(s) atronomical.
And you'll still be paying PFI on top of it.
Start saving plastic bags to patch the roof of your local school. Yes, it will be that bad.
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Yet another narrative
The ends do not justify the means.
The NuLabour project meant sacrificing everything that Labour used to stand for to get elected to power. The Iraq war did not justify the use of dodgy dossiers to play lap dog to the American NeoCons. The rush to "light touch" regulation for the millions that the banks paid the Treasury in tax does not justify the borrowing of billions to nationalise the dud assets created by the process. And so on and on.
A grand moral stance by a son of the manse. You can see why you need a lang spoon to sup wi' a Fifer. Except he's a Glaswegian.
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@40 handclapping, lol well said.
Investors are now working out that it's not just "Scottish" in the title that's the problem, if the headquarters are in Scotland, Brown wants it shut down.
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Brian is quite correct in so far as the SNP need to generate a new message. The old one is too removed from current developments and Alex risks painting himself into a corner by focusing upon politically unwise constitutional wrangling.
What I'd like to know from Brian is this:
since when has labour stopped arguing (rather gratuitously) that Scotland is too wee and small? This is still the present line, with slightly more Scotland-friendly language being used.
The Tories up here are still to really find a distinctly Scottish messeage for the coming election, other than a replication of the national "broken society and broken economy" one.
The key is surely this: will the SNP recover with a new message, with fresh policy initatives- or shall they just continue with the old platform of LIT (dead), Student debt abolition (dead), and teacher numbers (dead), school construction (dying), and finally the now untimely Referendum (soo to expire).
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#5 bighullabaloo
"I'd say Labour needs a "new narrative" more than the SNP."
I agree entirely. I hope Faulds can be persuaded to stand as MP for Kirkcaldy & Cowdenbeath against Duff Gordon next time.
Post or reactive moderation for all except CBeebies, please!
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What authority does Labour have left in its narrative that makes it compelling by comparison with the nationalists?
Labour will be for ever identified as the party of porn, torture, war crimes, sleaze, and utter financial catastrophe.
By all means the SNP must express their positive vision for Scotland in the horrifying conditions wrought by Brown & Mandelson - but the real test is surely for Unionists. They never attempted to make a positive case for the Union before their fiscal horrorshow and they will never be able to do so now.
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#10 greenockboy
Spot on, except perhaps for your closing: "This thing stinks, the cat is out of the bag - let's watch our so called journalists in action."
The first part is true, but watching paint dry will likely be more exciting.
Post or reactive moderation for all except CBeebies, please!
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#10, Greenockboy wrote:
"The BBC and Labour were caught completely off guard by Jim Faulds yesterday. So much so that the the announcement that the Nationwide is to step in and buy out the Dunfermline was leaked to the son of the Labour peer and BBC correspondent Robert Peston in tiem for this mornings broadcasts."
What is more worrying is that the Media (yet again) seemed to have the details of a takeover before the Dunfermline BS board even knew as much! I guess there are people here who remember this also happened with the HBOS scenario where there is a strong indication that Gordon Brown himself leaked fear mongering stories (involving being at a party with various spivs just beforehand) resulting in a sudden (and unprecedented) collapse of the HBOS share price.
...Political things happen by design not chance!
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Labour/Westminster: Bar Stewards
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#36, sorry gedguy2,
The SNP do not need to follow NuLab in the battle of the 'Soundbites'... personally, I prefer the straight talking which has made this SNP administration a breath of fresh air.
...need I remind you of "No More Boom And Bust"?
From watching the recent US (marathon) elections, I can honestly say that it dumbs down politics and if our nation is to make the best choices for the future then we need people to vote based on their educated decisions... not for personalities or for Razmatazz soundbite politics... The future is too important to be trivialised.
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The interesting question is always, how far back do you argue?
Yes, you can argue that an independent Scotland could not have bailed out its banks. But then, would a Scotland that - for the sake of argument - had been independet for the last 10, 20 or however many years fallen into the same trap that ultimately made rescuing necessary? Would it indeed be better off if it had been more prudent and had the use of North Sea oil?
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Let's have a closer look at Labour's current "narrative": "We buy porn with your tax money".
Maybe a Labour voter here can explain to me why this narrative appeals to them so much?
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Scotland has never been more susceptible to this kind of attack than now. A Scottish fundamental Unionist occupies Downing Street and the party of independence are the government in Scotland.
The fundamental Unionist is at the moment conducting a 'war' against Scotland PLC.
The modus operandi is clever, ensure communications are under your control, (print and broadcast), then target those areas that may serve to strengthen the arguments of your 'enemy'.
Much like attacking the supply lines of your enemies front line, this steady removal of financial institutions 'weakens' the retaliation of your opponents.
Brown is a meglomaniac who is obsessed with achieving global statesman status. He can never have achieved such in an independent Scotland.
Such dogmatic devotion to the Union is harming Scotland. I am afraid though that we are utterly defenceless as the only people who can put a stop to the practices that Jim Faulds highlighted are the media.
I am convinced that were Brewer, Campbell and Taylor to face an audience of critics that they would be utterly dismantled.
The Scottish press are just as bad, but they work for private companies and I am not forcedto pay part of their wages.
We, alone in Western Europe, have little by way of free and informative media. It resembles the old Pravda from the former Soviet Union - we cannot rely on them.
***********************************
That's enough from me on the blog for now, this event has galvanised me to do something a little more positive.
I may pop onto the quirkynat site for a look some time - and to seek assistance with software I have been working on for around two years now.
Blogs and websites offer very limited scope in trying to inform the masses - there is an alternative.
Cheerio !!
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When I read this latest propaganda piece from the BBC Scotland I have to admit it made me feel down.
However, I cheered up considerably when I saw the look on Richard Timney's face as he said "sorry" in front of the world's press.
I love a good comedy!
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#48. deanthetory
"Brian is quite correct in so far as the SNP need to generate a new message. The old one is too removed from current developments and Alex risks painting himself into a corner by focusing upon politically unwise constitutional wrangling."
Constitutional change politically unwise? One wonders why the SNP have been interested in it for decades? They must be pretty thick.
It's the only POSITIVE action to counter all the NEGATIVE outcomes from the Union.
If you don't think we need constitutional change after today, then lord help you (but then you probably know a few ;-)
"The key is surely this: will the SNP recover with a new message, with fresh policy initatives- or shall they just continue with the old platform of LIT (dead), Student debt abolition (dead), and teacher numbers (dead), school construction (dying), and finally the now untimely Referendum (soo to expire)."
But dean, quite characteristically over Holyrood politics, you seem in denial. Some are "dead" or "dying" as you put it, as the UNIONIST parties didn't support them! The others have been discussed on here recently - they're not quite SNP failures are they...unless you just want to concern yourself with spin (very unbecoming).
You've already admitted on a previous thread that you see things as becoming a battle between the Tories and the SNP, and you are just getting in at the SNP first - party politics, you're as bad as NewLabour.
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#36 gedguy2
As "soundbites" go I think Labour's current one has a certain panache: "We buy porn with your tax money."
Quite a compelling ring to that, don't you think?
Once more with feeling: "We buy porn with YOUR tax money".
Yes, that's definitely a vote winner!
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Scotland's assests are being stripped by the UK treasury to make cheap political points. The media is doing its dirty work. Iain Gray should refrain from show so much glee, its going to come back and bite him on the bum.
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43. At 4:42pm on 30 Mar 2009, handclapping wrote:
Brian
Another narrative.
Shir Shaun will not be back. To pay back Labour's borrowing, the standard rate of tax will be 40%, the higher rate(s) atronomical.
And you'll still be paying PFI on top of it.
Start saving plastic bags to patch the roof of your local school. Yes, it will be that bad.
-----------------------
Handclapping, Sir Sean won't come back to an independent Scotland either. I cannot see an SNP led government dropping taxes for the wealthy either.
The SNP do need a little bit if a refocus. Keep away from the "if Scotland had been independent none of this would have happened" arguments. True perhaps re Iraq and Afghanistan, but doubtful for others.
Focus on a positive "this is what we will do" message, but more importantly "this is HOW we will do it".
Using comparisons with other countries is a weak argument as well, and less effective following the events of the past few months.
But while Labour is seriously damaged, they are by no means mince yet. Look at Gordon Brown today - proposing to scrap the 2nd home allowance. It's taken a lot of pressure and the antics of some of his ministers, but the spin machine is on fast speed here. Expect more of this in the coming few months.
The SNP needs to get ahead of the game. The media are an obstacle but they cannot "fix" an interview.
The next general election will probably be the bloodiest since 1997.
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#57 bigH
But it doesn't affect me. She's the English Home Secretary.
I think it would be a good idea if compulsory ID cards were to be trialled in Scotland ahead of being rolled out "Nationwide".
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anyhow Brian, what did you actually think of Jim Fauld's "narrative" as told to Glen Campbell on The Politics Show?
Powerful enough for you?
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Brian, want to report a news story rather than making-up one all by yourself?
Just look at this for world-class lying,
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/7971838.stm
Meanwhile, Falkirk West voters - do your duty, expensive anonymity is not acceptable,
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/7972959.stm
Brown is resorting to a "Scorched earth policy" in both Scotland (to thwart the SNP's goal of self-determination) and in England (to leave the Cameroons in the biggest financial hole in Britain's history). THE BBC IS INCREASINGLY LENDING HIM PROPAGANDA SUPPORT IN THIS AIM. This is not acceptable.
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#58 greenockboy
Ah greenockboy, that does sound good (not that you're off!).
Please keep quirkynats informed - should you need an army of helpers...(there are various options of how to do that on there)
We have been thinking along the 'the media is our obstacle' and 'how to engage generation X and the X Factor' demorgraphic, (myself not for a short while!) amongst other things - you've probably already looked...
:-)
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aye_right, re "preserve the union: a guide for unionists",
pause at 1:38 and you get the entirety of Gordon Brown and his minion's "thinking" on the constitutional question: "THE UNION" on a rainbow over scotland with a croc of gold at the end. Says everything about Broon's voodoo economics that have led us to such disaster.
Now Broon's scorched earth policy has kicked in ... the (North) British people have been found unworthy of the Great Leader, and since he must fail ... they must not outlast them.
Soon orders will be being issued to tear down Scotland's Universities and Art Galleries from the Great Deluded One in Number 10!
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"Eric Joyce has again been dubbed Britain's most expensive MP, after claiming allowances for 2007/08 of more than £187,000.
The Falkirk West Labour MP's travel costs alone came to £40,637, including £21,000 on airfares."
I see this guy is still stuck on Labour's old narrative (see my #5)
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@greenockboy, don't stay away too long.
I always enjoy your posts and when I see your name in the moderation queue I know you will have written a post worth waiting for.
I share your anger about our biased media and must confess to being slightly gobsmacked to read a post addressed to you by oldnat (whose posts I also enjoy and look forward to) the other day saying "so the media's baised, so what?"
Our media seems to me to be at the root of many of Scotland's problems and I hope you continue to highlight examples of their bias wherever you find it.
Sadly some people still believe what they read in the papers and see on the TV and it determines how they vote.
Let's help them make a decision based on the truth rather than unionist spin.
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So Labour telling us that we're too week to survive as a nation is a good narrative where is your pride? I really hope the general public dont hold these same thoughts. Do you really think the majority of England want to retain the union? I cant stand the desperate message of Labour clinging to it. I would rather support Alex Salmonds brave views than Iain Grays and Labours scare mongering.
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BBC needs a new belief in neutrality.
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My twa' pennorth on the DBS - posted elsewhere, as well as here so apologies for repeat posting to those who've read it before.
Firstly, it's worth noting the following -
Chelsea Building Society - Losses - GBP 36 million.
Newcastle Building Society - Losses - GBP 35 million
English Local Authorities - Losses over Icelandic Banks - GBP 50 million.
See the words "Scots" or "Scottish" in any of the above - nope, me neither. Maybe that's why all of the above have been 'bailed out' in ways that weren't made available to the Dunfermline.
Next, a couple of questions, to anyone who can answer them -
Question 1 - If the DBS was/is such a basket case why the the specially commissioned, External Auditors (KPMG) report delivered in October 2008 confirm that DBS had a viable business plan.
Question 1a - If the DBS is such a basket case that it would not be able to service any capital injection as a loan - how have they been managing to carry a GBP 20 million loan from the RBS up until January 2009.
Question 1c - Has that loan been repaid? If so what impact did this have on the DBS' liquidity and, further to this, whose decision was it to call that loan in?
Question 2 - Why does KPMGs evaluation of the risk, as shown in their report delivered last October and based on a forensic, line by line examination of the DBS' commercial property book differ so much from the FSA's evaluation of the same book and those same loans?
Question 3 - Why have the FSA not been more forthcoming with the fact that they approved the DBS' acquistion of the Lehman Brothers loans last year.
Question 4 - Why has it not been made clearer, in all coverage of the DBS collapse that the loans bought from Lehman Brothers were loans secured on properties in England not the USA.
Question 5 - Finally, when commenting on the DBS ability to service any capital injection by way of loan why did the Secretary of State for Scotland (Deliberately, in my view) not clarify that DBS made GBP 2 million operating profit last year.
Loans are not serviced out of profits. They are serviced as costs, which are deducted from revenues and anything left over is a profit. The DBS (Like every other Building Society) serviced loans as part of its standard operating model. Obviously, it did so reasonably well, otherwise it would not have been making any profit at all
Question 6 - Other than Jim Faulds, can nobody else involved in this whole sorry affair tell the difference between profit and revenue?
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/tayside_and_central/7971692.stm
Dundee is all SNP!
Both East and West MSP's and now (finally) rightful control of the council.
From a weegie, lets hope we all follow Dundee's new journey of discovery.
Saor Alba!
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# 63 Neil
"The SNP do need a little bit if a refocus."
What about a little "refocus" for Labour too while we're at it?
How about: "we're increasing taxes so we can buy even more porn with your tax money"?
That should go down a treat with voters at the next election.
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#64 handclapping
"But it doesn't affect me. She's the English Home Secretary."
Ah, well that's alright then, as long as it doesn't affect you there's no problem. "I'm alright Jack!"
What have you been reading? The "Fred Goodwin" guide to blogging?
For the rest of Scotland (whose taxes are paid into the same pot as taxes from England) it's still our tax money her husband is spending on porn.
So it affects all of us. But as long as you're not affected, that's all that matters, right?
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#73 Bandages_For_Konjic
Yes, I can answer all of your questions: A viable Scottish financial institution is being trashed to make it look as if Scotland is too financially weak to be independent. Anyone with half a brain can see that given the comments made by Jim Faulds.
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greenockboy you have got me bang to rights. You know what they say 'you can take the boy out of the scheme'. That's all you right about your narrow minded nationalism suprises me.
You forget about the one main thing that got the Dumfermilne it to this mess 'greed'. Do you honestly think that Mather, Swinney and Neil would put more regulation on to Scotlands financial institutions? Lets get real here what we have seen is a failure of capitalism worldwide.
And if elements of the Labour Party got seduced by the idea of New Labour, we also got the tartan version here, the New SNP who can put Labour's spin doctors to shame. Just how many of their election promises have they broken now. Sorry that's right it's all Westministers fault.
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When a political party is losing an argument, its frustrated supporters shout at the News.
The SNP rants on this page are proof of that.
The large, silent majority of Scots want nothing to do with this minority administration or its shouting Anglophobes.
You do not speak for Scotland.
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A very flat blog!!
This has been a memorable day in Scottish history, I expected a bit better for a political blog.
So just to remind readers of how Scotland could have propped up all the Scottish banks and building societies.........
Watch this....... Diomhair part 6
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9BgbQ8fo6A
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At least the Labour Party do actually have a new narrative:
- High Transport costs (take a bow Mr. Joyce)
- High housing costs (take a bow messrs. McNulty etc etc)
- High... er hmm... film costs (take a bow Ms. Smith)
- Office use for "liaisons" (take a bow Mr. Griffiths)
A narrative which primarily involves snouts, troughs and jolly good times at my expense. You couldn't actually make this stuff up.
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I'm saddened by this, Brian.
I know that you rely on the BBC for your corn and the BBC relies on the union for its existence. It has a unionist narrative and a unionist perspective.
However, I also know that you usually try to sit on the fence, being kind I might say you are objective. So I'm disappointed that you choose to criticise the SNP, although not surprised. As I said, the BBC is almost by definition, a unionist organisation, hung-up on London's little empire and now the heat is on as the economy collapses.
The BBC narrative is what made me a nationalist Brian, that and Margaret Thatcher.
Fortunately the BBC is not forever, unlike Scotland who's narrative burns in the soul - and that includes yours Brian. There is only so much industrial, economic and financial vandalism that Broon can carry-out before people say enough is enough.
Stand up and be counted, Scotland's day has yet to dawn.
And God Bless Dundee.
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#79 VforVictory
"When a political party is losing an argument, its frustrated supporters shout at the News."
Sorry, V, we'd like to argue but can't afford to any more.
We've had our pockets emptied so the husbands of Labour politicians can watch free porn.
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I don't think I will bother watching Glenn Campbell on Newsnicht tonight. I know what he gonna say.
I might as well watch an episode of shameless. An apt description of HM Treasury.
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75. At 7:56pm on 30 Mar 2009, bighullabaloo wrote:
# 63 Neil
"The SNP do need a little bit if a refocus."
What about a little "refocus" for Labour too while we're at it?
How about: "we're increasing taxes so we can buy even more porn with your tax money"?
That should go down a treat with voters at the next election.
--------------------
I think for Labour you should reword that to "large / major / gargantuan refocus".
But they are starting, or attempting to start anyway. Anything to get attention away from the Home Secretary.
To Dundee, I still think that the provost should have put himself up for re-election to the voters as an independent. I'm sick of politician who either swap sides or go independent. They were voted in partly because of what party they represented. Chances are he would win, but then on the other hand an SNP candidate might have won, putting him out of a job. So self-interest comes to the fore again.
79. At 9:04pm on 30 Mar 2009, VforVictory:
A bit of a sweeping statement there, mirroring what you have said about nationalists. Now many here will point out that I am not exactly an SNP fanatic (although I get the odd accusation of being a rampant Labour lover), but I think your comment is a bit unfair.
Many Scots do not share the desire for independence, but see the SNP as an alternative Government for the present time. Just because someone votes for SNP, does not necessarily mean they desire independence.
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83. At 9:27pm on 30 Mar 2009, bighullabaloo wrote:
Sorry, V, we'd like to argue but can't afford to any more.
We've had our pockets emptied so the husbands of Labour politicians can watch free porn.
=================
Someone should tell them they can probably get it free on the Internet.....
Oops, I forgot, she's already claimed for her connection............
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60. AW
What I meant by politically unwise wasn't a comment on the rights or wrongs of independence, i was thinking more on how the voters would consider it, if the SNP were spending time focusing on constitutional affairs rather than dealing with the downturn. Thats all i meant, sorry for being too unclear, it wasnt intentional.
As for knowing a lord or two, nope but my uncle is a glasgow MP ;)
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I believe this to be My Taylor's, "Tongue in cheek moment.".
We are missing the point, we all need a new narrative, don't we?
Since the Scottish National Party seized victory at the Scottish Parliament there have been clear divisions, Unionists - Nationalists.
It's the same story each day, "Look Guv, your bank has failed..." Despite forgetting that all things Scottish are under British regulations.
And then we see Nationalists writing about the possibilities of being independent, we could save our banks or even prevent them from collapsing... we could provide our children with as bright a future as the children of Norway, or even continue the legacy as the Repeublic of Ireland and show that, "We don't need the people of England, London or what's left of Britain altogether!".
Is it not time that we all bring something new to the debate?
How we all can continue to write what we write to the same individuals each day is beyond me, half the time the other person won't ever admitt that you put up reasonable and valid points and that you could be right.
Look at DeanTheTory, VforVictory, Anaxim...
Dean is to afraid to say anthing bad about the Tory's, let us use their early comment as something to use against them. Like usual they have some snipes at the SNP... bad policies etc... But there is no mention on why the Conservatives have never been one of the main parties in Scotland for over 50 years.
The Conservatives failed Scotland, and failed to me is quite a strong word.
The SNP, although have been struggling.. they have struggled doing what they beleive right. They have not taken Scotland to breaking point.
As soon as you accept that the Conservatives are still a dirty name in Scotland, maybe you'll then go easier on the SNP? There not perfect, but surely their best intentioned policies should be supported?
VforVictory... where do these type of people come from? "The large, silent majority of Scots want nothing to do with this minority administration or its shouting Anglophobes." and "You do not speak for Scotland."
It's pure hatred and division at it's worst here, and should we, Unionists and Nationalists support or even ignore these remarks which is just as bad.
Look at Northern Ireland, by ignoring or allowing these remarks to continue we risk filling a persons life with so much dislike maybe violence is their only option?
But I do agree with VforVictory on several parts of their comment. The majority of Scot's don't want the SNP Government (they got less then 50 percent of the vote) but either do the public want Labour, Liberal Democrats or the Tories in power, and maybe if I was to use the elections results as evidence, the majority of people did not even bother to vote, so maybe they don't mind who governs over them?
And a question, who does speak for Scotland?
And last but not least Anaxim, it's small country's who are suffering most, right?
And Scotland, like usual, too small, too poor, too incapable of looking after herself?
Show evidence and stop scaremongering with baseless claims.
Perhaps Brian was not actually suggesting that the parties change their tune, perhaps they were finally fed up with reading the same posters spout the same arguements.
We've got to change our tunes. It's no good for Scotland, for Britain, for the European Union, for the world or even our children, and their children if we continue repeating ourselves.
P.S
Yes, Brian. I understood, or seen your hidden message or at least expanded what you wrote to include the entire debate and discussions that goes on over Scotland. Feel free to say Tom Rocks on TV
;-)
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I am so full of emotion today I don't know where to turn. All I can say defiantly is do your best any and all of you Unionists! Use every agency, every wit you presume you have, ever course available to you, every trick in your dirty little book but you will never ever destroy Scotland! She is a light that will never be extinguished! Bank on it!
Scotland forever!
Saor Alba!
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@ Thomas_Porter
I understand what you are saying about the Conservatives, and I always disagree with them and criticise party policies when I strongly object to them; i suggest you have a gander on NR blog and you'll see in many a thread my europhile arguments causing a bit of trouble for the cozy EnglishTory consensus!
Let me however focus upon your main attack upon me: " Like usual they have some snipes at the SNP... bad policies etc..."
I'm a member of an opposition party for goodness sake so naturally i'll criticise your government when i percieve it to fail in its delivery! We're not all holding your opinions here.
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#25
Just reached Anaxim's hilarious post. If Scotland had been independent it would have found itself in trouble!
What does he think it is in at the moment (as a powerless part of the UK).
The debt for every UK family now stands at £144,000.
The plus fund for every Norwegian now stands at over £40,000.
The UK is in bigger trouble than any of the small nimble countries around it . I'm perfectly relaxed about this. It will become very obvious very soon.
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@ Thomas Porter
"The Conservatives failed Scotland, and failed to me is quite a strong word."
My party did fail Scotland...20 years ago, before my generation was even born!
If the best you can come up with is "three generations ago they were a bad old bunch" then you really must be desperate mustnt you?
Pathetic argument- we've changed quite signifcantly and your anti-torism is both outdated, and irrelevant in the modern Scottish political map. Get over yourself mate.
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@ 89 bluelaw
"every trick in your dirty little book but you will never ever destroy Scotland!"
Oh please grow up, its not unionist peoples intention to 'destroy' Scotland, but to simply aim to make peoples lives that little bit better by pursuing a policy which (we consider) helps tp raise the average standard of living above that that otherwise your romantic nonsense would result in.
Just grow up.
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latest poll (Comres) has a Tory majority of 50 at next GE. Of course, that was taken before beatthebishopsgate so who knows what the next one will show but not less, that's for sure.
By the way, surely the 88p bathplug claimed from UK taxpayers by the £300,000 per annum Smiths is surely worth a mention along with their state-sponsored erotic viewing activities?
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#87 deanthetory
Well, if I will concentrate on being a cheeky 'get'....
You were right, if I remember the jist of one of your earlier posts, the next elections will be interesting times ;-)
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#76 bighullabaloo
Bless. There was a second part to my #64. the two parts together are ironical. Sorry.
But on the second part, I wonder how well the compulsory ID cards being trialled in Scotland would play. A forced tax of GBP70 for each man, woman and child. Better than the poll tax, as good as the poll tax or riots in the streets? As she's home secretary she could be hoping for the latter as she's bought all these unused tazers while our lads go out in unprotected Land Rovers in Helmand. You can see NuLabour has got it's priorities right again.
That's not ironical.
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#96 handclapping
Irony doesn't play too well on the Internet.
Sarcasm's a bit easier though.
See my #5 for an example of how to do it properly ;-)
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#48
I can see deanthetory's youthful naivety showing in this one.
LIT has been delayed to allow the SNP to win the next election on it.
I had a right good laugh at Labour cheering as they opposed a measure that would benefit nearly all their support.
The SNP just dug a big hole for them and they jumped into it.
And you can say the same about the referendum. The unionists - particularly the LibDems whose constitution virtually demands referendums - will be beaten over the head continuously for holding a position they cannot possibly democratically defend.
Neither teacher numbers (which shadow pupil numbers) or school construction are exercising the general public particularly especially as the public recognise were now in the economic ess-aitch-one-tee which is about to hit the fan in huge amounts as PFI projects all over the place start to go to the wall.
I disagree with Brian.
The SNP should keep a quiet brief at the moment.
It will become apparent that you cannot in the longer term use the collapse of Scotland as a benefit of the Union.
That will be the telling point.
The narrative remains the same.
Transitory happenings like the present economic crisis say nothing about the constitutional arguement except that all countries get into trouble sometimes and all countries are at the mercy of their governments who may govern well or may govern dreadfully.
And we haven't heard the last of Jim Faulds.
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DeanTheTory:
#90.
"I understand what you are saying about the Conservatives, and I always disagree with them and criticise party policies when I strongly object to them; i suggest you have a gander on NR blog and you'll see in many a thread my europhile arguments causing a bit of trouble for the cozy EnglishTory consensus!"
You should be bringing that type of the discussions to this part of the blogging world, it's Conservative opinion where we lack.
"Let me however focus upon your main attack upon me: " Like usual they have some snipes at the SNP... bad policies etc..."
I'm a member of an opposition party for goodness sake so naturally i'll criticise your government when i percieve it to fail in its delivery! We're not all holding your opinions here."
That's where I believe you are wrong. The Scottish National Party does not have control of over 50 percent of the chamber, to me, that suggests that each partry has the opportunity to govern Scotland... with or without the actual Government supporting the plan.
Look at the Edinburgh Trams, in this situation the SNP were the opposition group and the Conservatives (along with Lab and Lib Dems) became the Government by deciding policy.
This is the beauty of the Scottish Parliament, every vote and every voice can make the difference.
Of course pointing out where the Gov may have failed is the correct thing, but Look at Labour. Labour shoot down most plans without providing an alternative.
Is it better following a potential bad policy or ignoring it completely and not offering an alternative?
I am still waiting for an alternative to LIT, something that on paper looks like a benefit to Scotland, especially compared to council tax that Labour, SNP and the Liberal Democrats agree is not the best tax solution.
But Labour, acting on headlines and dismissing an idea that may have had a positive impact upon Scotland refused to back LIT and now we all live with council tax.
The country will not be asking, what if?
This is bad politics. It's great to show your feelings and to refuse to agree on policies, but dismissing an idea completely is not the best way forward and now Scotland can never move forward, untill the elections anyway.
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95 AW
Oh, it ought to be.
But isnt labour actually going to increase the number of seats they possess up here in Scotland? From 40 to 41 or something like that?
SIGH... why do people keep voting for new labour..if it was old labour then maybe its understandable... as that was an ideological position to hold... but new labour...SIGH EVEN LOUDER.
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I can't believe that my comment at #26 has been removed.
That's the first time that's happened.
I must have hit the nail on the head with that one.
I guess the truth hurts!
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#93 deanthetory
No dean, not "romantic nonsense".
It's too seductive to dismiss bluelaw's remarks, especially by those who indulge their own enlightenment. It's easy to denigrate emotion as lacking insight or less intelligent. But it's a mistake, and a very common one.
It's not illogical to feel pride or hurt when such bad things are happening to your country. It's not daft to admit it makes you feel sad. These feelings can indeed be trusted.
Cynical apathy to the emotions invites in the callous, and we think it's in our better interests. This leads to such skewed thinking as we would be better off not self governing but living off the benefits of another country.
Even if the bare monetary facts were true (they aren't), that denies our human qualities, our self respect.
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Here's the facts about Dunfermline Building Society from the chairman, Jim Faulds...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZR3SICn4Z58
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#97 bigH
Yes, o master. 8-)
What happened? I did my post and went off to make my milky drink before bed and I come back and find not only is the post moderated but also a response.
I'll have to go and lie down!
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If a £26 million loss means that something has got to get broken up and sold off, then surely the billions (or indeed trillions) that Westminster has squandered over the years means that it should have been broken up and sold off many times over.
Of course, only the good bits would be snapped up, and there aren't many of those.
There are too many toxic assets at Westminster today, especially where Scotland is concerned.
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#100 deanthetory
dean, you may already have guessed this but I'm going to tell you anyway!
On the Tories, I may not have decided I like them, but you can at least work with them. If you're both after your own slant on the agenda, it's OK, we both know, we are able, like grown ups, to work together - obviously watch your back, like ;-)
Only kidding, adult politics is possible with the Tories.
Labour (the scourge of Scottish society) are the most despicable, devious, deceitful, moral-less, uncouth, dastardly, cowardly, shameful weasels of a party, who would break up Scottish banks to try and halt independence, who stand for NOTHING except themselves - disgusting. Their only virtue is that they are predictably like that so they are easily led.
Their negative droning will hopefully turn off voters who are sick of the downturn and want positives instead. Any that Labour do offer will, given their track record, surely be laughed out of hand.
RIP Labour - it needs to be reborn, but for that it must DIE first.
:-)
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Deanthetory:
#92.
"My party did fail Scotland...20 years ago, before my generation was even born!
If the best you can come up with is "three generations ago they were a bad old bunch" then you really must be desperate mustnt you?
Pathetic argument- we've changed quite signifcantly and your anti-torism is both outdated, and irrelevant in the modern Scottish political map. Get over yourself mate."
This is the problem Dean.
You refuse to accept the past, yes, Thatcher is no longer Prime Minister and has not been for years. However, her legacy lives on.
For example, even now we witness generations of families on benefits. These families tend to be related to an older generation whom Mrs Thatcher did not help.
It's in the past, but we are still repairing the damage and paying the bills for policies that destroyed Scotland.
You are a young person, you'd never know about the trouble. The majority of voters lived under Thatcher, how'd you reckon they feel about her, the Conservatives and the policies that followed?
David Cameron has accepted and said that Scotland could have been handled differently. Will you accept that the Conservatives made mistakes, and we are still repairing the damage?
Even with the much dislike for the Conservatives, please, tell me why despite the polls in England and Wales, in Scotland you are preforming so poorly?
And between you and I, accusing myself of being anti-Conservatives shows how little you know about me. In turht, I see why Thatcher done what she done, and would have supported her. However I could never accept the way in which she modernised Scotland, and the United Kingdom. It done more harm then good, and should have been dealt over a longer time so people would not have been unemployed all at once and the younger generation could have filled in with the new industires that started. That never happened, and I can never support the Conservatives for their ill-thought out plans.
David Cameron also said it would take longer to win round Scotland, will you also accept that the Conservatives should first prove they are with the Scottish people... before their supporters start writing abuse and ignoring history (which we still pay for today)?
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107. Thomas_Porter
Of course we made mistakes, naturally we did- not even Thatcherites are infallible (and as a one nationist don't i know it).
But the point is, at our current range of 18-20% opnion polling in Scotland, this is good north of the Border! ;)
Its a far day since the days of 1997, or 2005 where we could only muster a measly 17 odd per cent.
As for ill thought out plans, certainly our industrial policies might have been better implimented through consensus rather than forceful confrontation, but its time to move on from this. My party has, Scotland is beginning to.
---------
For however asked for an alternative option for LIT- what about a Local Sales Tax, set locally?
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102. aye_write
Ok, I'm off my high horse AW ;)
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#88 Thomas Porter
You speak for yourself about us all playing the same old record.
The only thing I bang on about is the LIT, as I think it basically wrong. It shifts a tax on consumption to a tax on income. Our present troubles are because we consume too much with not enough income. Up the tax on consumption, decrease the burden on income to right the misallocation of resources.
Otherwise I try kite flying, irony, stupidity, whatever to try and knock the needle into a new track or whatever today's equivalent is for the iPod generatin.
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If the DBS was English, what would have been the reaction???
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Just to get this Unionist nonsense straight,
A) Great Britain plc is broke and facing deficits of over 10% GDP (like several countries already being effectively run by the IMF).
B) The Labour Party is destroying the Scottish financial industry either via neglect, or as part of a deliberate scorched earth policy.
C) It is to be taken from this situation that the status-quo is validated and the argument for independence is undermined (just as a matter of months ago unionists were arguing - "Britain is solvent, the argument for independence is undermined").
SEE ABOVE, THE CRAZY "LOGIC" OF UNIONISM.
Dean, we had this conversation not so long ago, when you stop selectively blocking out polls you don't like the Tories' range is anything from 7-18%, and there have been a number recently suggesting the 7-12% range is more accurate!
Currently, Cameron's appeal stops at the border, as it always has.
& there is still graffiti from the poll tax across the country, so Thatcher's vandalism of the economy (probably what paw broon aspires to) is not that long ago.
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Wahey! We're back to the same old arguments as usual :))
In no particular order, and no preference to either side of the debate, so far we have had:
Scottish banks, Norwegian oil fund, Scotland too small to survive, Iceland, Iraq (erm, by me), Thatcher, Brown, Salmond, Lib Dems, Porn, Expenses, LIT, PFI, Scotland being destroyed by the unionists, the union being destroyed by the SNP..............
At least the moderation is quick tonight!!
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#108 dean
Good idea, taxes consumption. Ever heard of people buying over the internet?
Kirkcaldy High Street would be even emptier than it now is; a shop employing staff and paying rates and having to levy Local Sales Tax would be even more uncompetitive than it now is against the centralised buying power, automated warehousing and freedom from Local Sales Tax of the internet giants.
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112. pattymkirkwood
Nope, I merely use the average as per the polling data on polling report.
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I hope this link works but it is really interesting to see the breakdown of the origin of London's GVA....
[Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]
Against a balanced economy:
[Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]
Scroll down....
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#113 neil
#46 for Iraq? 8-)
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I am glad my second comment ever on here has been referred, I am so not controversial yet I am getting censored....
Says it all....
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114. handclapping
Just a thought, point taken.
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Well, unpopular as it may be Brian makes a fair point. Labour's woeful "narrative" will have to be dealt with by the SNP. I would however add:
1. Yes, this narrative really is the best Labour can do. Or to look at it another way, compare the criticisms of the performance of: (a) the SNP government; and (b) the Labour government.
Which criticisms are based on what-might-have-been "fairy tales"? And which are based on the very real deaths of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis/Afghans/UK armed forces in a war entered into on the basis of highly dubious "intelligence" and hushed-up cabinet discussions, the utter failure to regulate the financial sector and the resultant devastation to our economy, the alleged complicity in torture of our own citizens, the steady erosion of civil liberties, rampant gorging on expenses paid for by the plebs ("It's ok, it was "within the rules", but hey, we won't hear that excuse for Fred Goodwin!"), etc, etc...
2. Brian, a low point in your usually good blog. Given the big, important questions on this story you've taken a bizarre slant on it to say the least.
Finally, I've added a new poll over at Brigadoon asking who is to blame for the demise of DBS - feel free to drop in and cast your vote(s).
#112 patty: Currently, Cameron's appeal stops at the border, as it always has.
Aye, the border between Buckinghamshire and Northamptonshire ;o)
handclapping: Even with half an eye on the blog (busy day at work) I got your irony.
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#47 GrassyKnollington
Investors are now working out that it's not just "Scottish" in the title that's the problem, if the headquarters are in Scotland, Brown wants it shut down.
I fear for the Scottish Parliament on both counts then.
The Scottish media cannot attack Labour. The Unionists know that united they stand, divided they fall and if anyone breaks ranks the Union is done for. That's why you had Tories and LibDems voting Labour at Glenrothes. What will they do come the General Election then?
Now, there is a new hare on the course.
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re #110
Apparently it is "Press the Shuffle button."; sounds like the thing the wife wants when she thinks you should be in bed.
Coming Dear.
Goodnight all.
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#103 scottish_solstice
Many thanks for the link - it was obvious that the clip on this website was hastily edited, and I wondered what else Faulds had to say. Clearly praise of the Scottish Government was the cause.
Sickening. As I write, I'm listening to NuLab propaganda on Radio 4's midnight news. Even more sickening.
Post or reactive moderation for all except CBeebies, please!
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Jings and help ma boab!
You've really rattled folks cages today Brian; and not just the usual subjects either.
While we are at it can anyone explain the Union benefit of £5.2 billion of PFI public projects that will actually cost the Scottish taxpayer £30 billion?
Can any Unionist explain the benefit of following the Westminster model when Police Forces in England and Wales are being forced to cut back on police numbers?
How about the Union benefit of Darling having already cut the Scottish Block Grant by £500 million a year looking to cut an additional £500 million over the next two years?
Brian maybe you could ask Robert Peston to explain all this when he has stopped threatening the chair of the Commons Select Committee with disclosure of personal information (Hansard: Report on interviews to the Finance Committee if anyone wants to look see what Robert said when 'protecting his sources at the Treasury'.)
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#120 forfar-loon
Good post - and a good call on my vote for Fred
Post or reactive moderation for all except CBeebies, please!
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#103 scottish_solstice
Yes, thanks from me too. I 've added onto quirkynats website.
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thanks a-w.
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An independent Scotland couldn't have bailed out HBOS or RBS? What twaddle! Minge Campbell blew the same smoke along with Vince Cable at the Liberal Dems conference.
As I recall, the last time a referendum on the prospect of Scottish independence was held was in the 1970's - more than enough time to create an oil fund like norway's or a copper fund like Chile's. What exactly did the UK government buy with the ridiculous sums of money generated by the North Sea? Nothing - as far as I can see. Thatcher funded unemployment with it and Labour have squandered just as much of it in making sure that the rich get richer and the poor stay poorer!
I care little for what an englishman or a welshman has to say about the issue, because the future of the Scots should be decided by Scotland alone, not by the remnants of dead imperial era. Partnership is all well and good, but in light of 40 years of bungled investment and woefully inadequate leadership - Scotland & her people's time is now.
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well Brian, it seems your call for a new narrative has fallen on deaf ears, not that I'm surprised!
Apparently it's all the UK's fault; silly me I thought it was the management of Dunfermline who invested in dodgy commercial property loans, now I find that it was all a plot by Gordon Brown to lose his own seat for the good of the Union; that makes more sense of course.
And yes I suppose the failure to rescue to the Portman or the Scarborough building societies is a sinister plot to emasculate them so they'll stop trying to become independent too!
well I agree! enough I say - Freedom for Scarborough!
please get over yersel's........
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#115 - Dean, again how convenient for you to ignore the ComRes polling putting the Tories on 5, 16, 7 and 12% in their last 4 offerings for Westminster in Scotland.
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#129 Acciesman1
"Apparently it's all the UK's fault; silly me I thought it was the management of Dunfermline who invested in dodgy commercial property loans
Listen to the full interview with Faulds (apparently it was some English loans they purchased that weren't so good, but I wouldn't wany to spoil yer party) as per scottish_solstice's link and then peddle your we're all bitter Bravehearts mince - that's pathetic......
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Deanthetory:
#107.
"Of course we made mistakes, naturally we did- not even Thatcherites are infallible (and as a one nationist don't i know it).
But the point is, at our current range of 18-20% opnion polling in Scotland, this is good north of the Border! ;)
Its a far day since the days of 1997, or 2005 where we could only muster a measly 17 odd per cent.
As for ill thought out plans, certainly our industrial policies might have been better implimented through consensus rather than forceful confrontation, but its time to move on from this. My party has, Scotland is beginning to.
---------
For however asked for an alternative option for LIT- what about a Local Sales Tax, set locally?"
Last but not least, do you beleive you would fare better by sweeping the past undert eh carpet, or by allowing the past to be remembered would prove the better option?
It's important to show the lessons you learn. However by sweeping it under the carpet, like I beleive you were, what does that show the people of Scotland?
To be honest a tax does not matter. It's what the rates are, and how much we have in our pockets that matter.
handclapping:
#110.
"You speak for yourself about us all playing the same old record."
If you harp on about LIT constantly, then you are as bad as me and everyone else.
I can happily be the bigger man and admit the mistakes I have, but your not going to miss my tar brush, mate.
;-)
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Just when you think Gordon's ego trips into his frankly bizarre and twisted mind cannot get any worse,
"Markets should reflect 'British Values'"
http://www.theherald.co.uk/politics/news/display.var.2498834.0.Markets_should_reflect_British_values.php
presumably we are back to fairplay (noticeably missing in the man's dealings with DBS and others) and cricket i.e. Britain = England south of the Watford Gap.
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Brian
Just had a look at the ComRes poll for the Indy; it's not the Nats who need the new narrative, it's NuLab. The figures people, oldnat, brownedov, will undoubtedly put me right but it looks as if the SNP has clear water between themselves and the rest in Scotland, like 25% to 17-18%s, and the LibDems look like the ones loosing out in the squeeze.
Add in that this was polled before the DBS shenaningans and Wee Eck will be whistling in his bath if not yet singing.
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The thing about fictional narratives is they are often entertaining, but often very distracting. Contrast little devolved Scotland's narrative with that of other West European countries, who just happen to be independent, strange concept that, isn't it, independence, very strange?
There are other countries who face worse times than Scotland, some better, but their narrative is one of action taking place in governments that are fully accountable for their past and present actions, with a full range of monetary, fiscal powers. Ask any one of these independent countries whether they would like to swap their narrative of independence and function with the narrative of devolution with limited powers and limited function in this current environment (never mind when the times were good) and, firstly, you will get your suitable prologue for this Scottish narrative: we were sold devolution as Scottish solutions to Scottish problems (who could disagree with that, Labour thought) and it has become all too apparent that Scottish devolution as any sort of solution has always been a fiction. Never trust the blurb, Scottish devolution to address Scottish problems is a fiction, and that is all too apparent now. Other governments have full sovereign powers and until Scotland acquires sovereignty, then Scotland will forever be in a precarious position, existing but not existing, in a strange semi-governance.
It would seem to me that instead of persisting with this devolution narrative Scotland cannot keep listening to the tall-tales of Labour who orchestrated a regulatory system over the last 12 years that has contributed to the UK state being in the worst position in the developed world while pointing accusing fingers at Scotland. Only this morning Scotland, which has limited powers remember, so no real influence when it comes to markets, was being accused of starting this mess. In independent countries people pull together, but in devolved Scotland we have unionism gleefully raking over their own mess. Westminster created a fire-storm, and have caledl it a political opportunity. That's the alternative narrative to independence, and it's pulp. In fact, unionist narratives, keep them, they're not worth the paper they're not printed on.
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#135 timepassescarmichael
Agreed.
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Sing your Heart Out Eck, we grow stronger day by day......forget the soundbites the Scottish Nation is getting together everyday......They understand the treachery of The SKull Murphy, They understand the lies by London New Labour.....And above all they realise ITS TIME for THE SCOTTISH WAY....
Vote for Scotlands ane Folk: Vote SNP, the Scottish Peoples Party
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Why Brian do you not ask the plain and simple question, “what are the motives of a Westminster government who set out to destroy a financial system, which has the worldwide, respect that Scotland‘s system has known for so many years.
Why are YOU as a journalist not asking plain and simple questions about the disparity of the figures set out between Westminster and the Scottish Government and Dunfermline Building Society?
Why are you as a journalist, not asking questions such as “Why, when a credible alternative exists would this Westminster government set out to cost the taxpayer more money“?
Why are you as a journalist not asking the question “Is this personal against Scotland and its Government and its people”?
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Why was the other bid on the table not given serious considertion? A scottish consortium were interested in the DBS but apparently they were not even allowed to actually get around the table to discuss. We are told that time was of a essence and the UK treasury had to act fast. I just don't buy that.
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Viewed in the British context the DBS deal is reasonable. Was there a Scottish dimension considered? Possibly not as the FSA have no such brief. Possibly not because the Westminster Government would silently welcome a weakening of Scottish independent institutions. Possibly not as DBS, or at least its CEO, would seemed to have quietly decided that the Nationwide deal was the solution. Are there questionsto be answered? Certainly by FSA and DBS CEO and Darling. Will these questions be asked? Possiby. Will these questions be answered? No.
Does this leave Salmond with a narrative? Yes, if Scotland want a Scottish dimension in the development of their country and in the resolution of such future difficulties it will only come from an independent state. Otherwise Scotland is signing up to being part of the UK undistingushable from and subservient too the major partner.
However I don't think it is Salmond that is driving the independence arguement, I think it is the English people and the 'British' institutions. The language of of the English people is of an independent England not of a country that part of a Union. That is how thet see themselves. That is how the media project it. That is how the so called 'British' institutions behave. So the only offer on the table demonstarted by custom and practice is to be part on England. If the Scots don't like that the too bad the aggrandisement of England will continue. The English people would welcome Scottish independence as it would free them from one distraction of there own position.
In the coming budget cuts to recover from the present difficulties devolved Governments will be teated no better than Region Development Authorities which is how the devolved Governments are viewed by senior members of the Labour and Conservative parties
The problem with the solution that is in place and currently functioning is the Scot's view of their own status. That is where Salmond will get his narrative. Salmond doesn't have the same constraints as Labour who have to project, to the Scots, that they must defer to the greater government of Westminster, who will not have a Sccottish dimension in their policies. Scottish Conservatives are in an even worse position as it is a fair bet that Cameron will make them an independent Scottish Party--a bit like the ULster Unionists -so that his message to the English peoples will be uncluttered.
Cameron is more likely to deliver independence than Salmond.
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timepassescarmichael
Re your 135.
What is a sensible post like that doing here?
Totally agree.
Looks like I have blown my "I do not like Brown " cover again.
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Andy Murray, British when he wins, Scottish when he loses.
RBS, BOS and now DBS, British when they are paying taxes, Scottish when they need assistance due to lack of regulation in the financial markets by the British Government.
Those observations aside, and completely disregarding Brian's economic argument, just what concerns do Scottish people have about running their own affairs?
What would their concerns be about an independent Scotland representing itself regarding fisheries in Brussels?
What would their concerns be about an independent Scotland electing its own head of state?
What would their concerns be about an independent Scotland representing itself regarding climate change in the UN?
What would their concerns be about an independent Scotland dealing direct with its neighbours in Europe on drug trafficking?
What would their concerns be about an independent Scotland caring for its elderly and university students?
What would their concerns be about an independent Scotland adopting policies on land ownership that favours communities rather than Lords and Dukes who sit in the Lords?
What would their concerns be about an independent Scotland representing itself in the Olympic Games or Eurovision Song Contest?
What would their concerns be about an independent Scotland controlling its own media?
What would their concerns be about an independent Scotland not sending troops to countries it has no arguments with?
What would their concerns be about an independent Scotland following the path of renewable energy and not nuclear energy?
What would their concerns be about an independent Scotland where we, and we alone, can decide which Government we elect?
What are these concerns?
TDBs
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#134 handclapping,
The last ICM, YouGov and ComRes polls now show the SNP ahead for Westminster in Scotland, seems to me that their "narrative" is working fine and Labour need to explain what in the hell they are doing, and why trashing Scotland's financial system seems to be number 1 priority for them!
#139,
Broon clearly wanted a "nation-wide" solution, meaning Scottish bids would not be considered. Once again he is running the UK based on his what he believes are his own political interests rather than that of the country.
Just imagine how pleased he is not to be representing Dunfermline at Westminster any more.
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#134 handclapping
Many thanks for the heads-up on the poll for the Indy, now available for download from the ComRes website. As you say, the fieldwork was completed before the sordid details of the DBS shenaningans started to dribble out into the public domain, and there will be few apart from R-E arguing that they'll improve NuLab's plight. The FM should indeed be whistling in his bath if not yet singing.
As always, the Scottish sample is tiny, but there are certainly encouraging signs for the SNP. The most relevant table is perhaps Table 6 - [Calculated] Voting Intention - from p16 of the PDF. That shows them leading in Westmidden voting intention for the first time since the summer with 27.27% compared to NuLab's 23.64% while the LibDems and Tories scrabble for third place with 20.00% and 18.18% respectively.
Frankly, because of the small sample, one shouldn't place too much importance on it, but I think it's fair to say that it's most unlikely Scotland will be returning another feeble fifty Labour MPs anytime soon!
I think that the key to this is given by Table 7 - Do you agree or disagree with each of the following statements? - starting on p19 of the PDF, where what's most interesting is how closely Scottish agreement to the questions is converging with UK opinion generally. That the party chosen come the election as a result of reaching that opinion will be different in Scotland will be different is already blindingly obvious. Consider:
- Gordon Brown has the right policies to get Britain out of recession: 30.91% (UK) vs 39.33% (Scotland) Agree
- Gordon Brown should focus more on finding a domestic solution to the economic crisis than a global one: 72.46% (UK) vs 71.59% (Scotland) Agree
- I am optimistic that the economy will improve before the end of this year: 26.95% (UK) vs 27.78% (Scotland) Agree
- The Government is right to increase borrowing by billions to boost the economy even if it means future tax rises: 30.44% (UK) vs 28.09% (Scotland) Agree
Those numbers give considerable hope that the Scottish electorate no longer believe NuLab spin.I should not be surprised if Wee Eck renders Flanders & Swann's In the Bath - in the sense of to tear apart, of course, and replacing N'krumah and N'barro with more modern hate figures.
Post or reactive moderation for all except CBeebies, please!
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#135 timepassescarmichael
#140 portcharlotte
Excellent posts both, and well worth re-iterating on the new thread, I think.
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#143 pattymkirkwood
"Just imagine how pleased he is not to be representing Dunfermline at Westminster any more"
Sad but true.
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Brownedov
"Just imagine how pleased he is not to be representing Dunfermline at Westminster any more"
Unfortunately for us the voters in Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath will still vote Labour because my father and grandfather voted Labour.
Even though Browns hero closed both Kirkcaldy pits and the NCB Cowdenbeath central workshop. But remember he admires her as she is a conviction politicial, just like him.
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#147 dubbieside
"But remember he admires her as she is a conviction politicial, just like him."
I promise I will. He's already a convicted politician in the his chum Harriet's "Court of public opinion" and I sincerely hope that he and his chum Tone go on to emulate Aitken, Archer, et al as convicted politicians in The Hague.
Post or reactive moderation for all except CBeebies, please!
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If anyone seriously should go to the Hague its Tony Blair. Talk about Alex Salmond singing in the bath. I think Tony Blair is the only one laughing over this whole sorry mess. Meanwhile he can still earn millions around the world.
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A visit to www.destination.sco.eu is a good place to see some of the up and coming thinking about the future of the case for Scotland's independence.
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Brian you bias shows me that you are a disgrace to your profession and your country, just another labour mouthpiece rather than giving a fair and honest appraisal of the situation,
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#127 bluelaw
Nothing personal there to you or dean, I just don't really like unfairness, hence my waltzing in ;-)
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I know a-w. I'm a big boy. I can take the knocks. just appreciated your empathy that was all. ;-)
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# 55 BoNGO_1
Whether we like it or not 'soundbites' have an important role to play with the media. It is not the 'believers' that the SNP have to convince to win this referendum it is those who have not made their minds up yet that need to be targetted.
No matter how biased the BBC is when it comes to purely Scottish matters they will still display suitable soundbites as soundbites fit well into news programmes.
I agree with you the AS has been refreshing when it comes to giving out statements.
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The "new narrative" is being written without the SNP having to do a lot.
It is that Nulabour and Brown and Darling at the very least don't care about Scottish national institutions.
It has become completely obvious to everybody that the money borrowed to merge HBOs with Lloyds and to give DBS to Nationwide could have been as well used to maintain both these institutions as independent companies.
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Na, the Nats don't need a new narative. But they may tweak round the edges slightly. Don't kid your selves, we know what the snp's ultimate goal is, and why! (Aye-W, the word is spreading, don't you worry about that, and the most encouraging thing is that youth seem to be so aware of that word, they haven't been "conditioned" yet ;)
The BBCs biase is not the tool it used to be for the "empire". It has become so "pro-british" since the SNP gave them a good slap that it can be seen as nothing else but anti scottish. But it is obvious that "we" were beggining to see through it any way. Be prepared for the tricks to get more dirty the nearer independance gets. Before you know it they'll be so pro scottish you won't believe it. We'll even have english asking us to please stay in the union, please, we need you....
Stan tee yir neeps!
Brian, yes, its the furthest you've stuck your neck from out your hide yet. Getting brave are we?
:0)
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